The Joe Rogan Experience - #2232 - Josh Brolin

Episode Date: November 21, 2024

Josh Brolin is a producer, director, writer, and Academy Award-nominated actor. His memoir, "From under the Truck," is available now.  https://www.harpercollins.com/products/from-under-the-truck-josh-brolin Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Joe Rogan Experience. Trained by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Hey, oh. Little Bo Peep. She needed the money. Oh. Oh. Remember how great that was? Oh yeah. When I first met him, it was like one of those weird things where you know you know I mean you've met a lot of famous people some of them you meet them you're like it's weird. Oh there's Bummer too. Yeah the Bummer ones that sucks. When you meet someone they suck.

Oh no you suck. Some people just not talk they should only do what they do act and sing. But then you get to know them. I don't know, I'm pretty good at this now where you don't, you see people that you looked up to. Eddie Vedder, I had a pretty close relationship with Vedder. Oh, really? Yeah, but I was drinking and then I would grab his balls, I would do shit like that. And then it was like, I don't want him around. I don't want Josh around. Yeah. I don't like that anymore. I don't want my, you know.

And I think Sean Penn appreciated shit like that. Like, wow, somebody has the balls. It's not even a little chaos. It's like somebody has the balls to call me on my shit. Like, not everybody's afraid of me. Oh, right. Yeah, he's probably used to people constantly being afraid of him. Yeah, like, oh, I can't fuck with him.

Right, well, he does wild shit. Like when he went down to fucking Mexico and met with El Chapo, like, Jesus Christ, dude, that's a fucking wild thing to do. And I do think that that's organic. But I think that that's also you just have that thing where you just go, you know what? Shit's getting boring. Right. The weather is just too fucking nice here. Weather's too nice. I'm too famous.

Let's go meet a monster. Yeah. Let's go too fucking nice here. Weather's too nice, I'm too famous, let's go meet a monster. Yeah. Let's go fuck some shit up. Let's do something big. Let's do something really reckless. Let's do something that's gonna resonate for at least a year. Yeah. That whole El Chapo thing was so crazy though, because that kind of is one of the things

that got him caught. It was, right? Yeah. Yeah, because they track your cell phone data. Yeah. They know where you go. And if you're bringing your fucking cell phone you're basically bringing a tracking device to to go find one of the most notorious gangsters alive today Then most in the time in who who's who was the guy with the football team back in the day like the Pablo Escobar?

Think about it. It's our days this time's Pablo Escobar. Yeah, yeah on pen Clothes and hangs out with supposed spikoli Because you know what? Hey, who wants to come with me and find this motherfucker? Did he go solo? I know I think so. I think you went solo. Well, he knew that lady who was like a reporter, you know There was like this really hot. Oh, yeah, the Mexican girl. Yeah. Yeah, he knew her. Was he dating her? I don't know. But I think she had a thing with El Chapo.

After that? No. Did Sean introduce them properly? I don't know. I think he knew her and she knew him. She knew El Chapo. Oh right, that's how he got, that was the connect. And El Chapo's like, I like to meet Spicoli. Yeah, like the meat. It's piccoli. Yeah, I like the meat. I love you.

Yeah, I really enjoyed you in colors. And then next thing you know... What's the most dangerous thing that you do now? What do you think? Dangerous thing? Yeah, like we're talking about Sean going out on a limb. Do you find it necessary to go out and do things that like challenge you in a way? Yes.

Challenge your psyche? Yes. In what way? Elk hunting is probably the most exciting. What is? Elk hunting. Elk hunting. Why?

Because it puts you in danger? Well, no. It's just really difficult. You know, you're bow hunting in the mountains. Right. And it's just you in the mountains and just fucking mountain lions and bears and shit. Do you stay up there for days and days and days and do you quarter your your. Oh, yeah. Pack it out. Yeah.

See, that's a different thing. Yeah. People say I don't I don't like personally. I like I grew up in a very red part of California. Everybody hunts that I grew up with. And I would shoot and I would hunt with my dad and I would like fucking think about it and dream about it for three weeks. Oh, yeah. I love it. I love it. I love eating. No, no, no. I'm saying that I would like fucking think about it and dream about it for three weeks. Oh, yeah. I love it I love it. I love eating. No, no, no, I'm saying that I would like oh and a spiral

Oh you get negative with it not even it was negative Yeah, I guess it would be negative, but it would like made me think of like the kids They were going like mom Mom are you there? And I just killed the mother. It's like the Bambi kind of thing right, but I eat meat mm-hmm So that hypocritical thing like I don't want to kill anything But I want you to kill it for me so I can eat it because I really like the way it tastes well That's the amper and throw Primorphization of animals that Disney has kind of done a number on people with you know like Bambi and

Yogi bear and all that kind of shit cartoons and teddy bears and we have a very you know living in when you live in urban areas and cities and people you know streets and concrete and people just get a very distorted idea of nature and our relationship with nature and when you're a kid and you're just these are sweet cute things and then all sudden you're supposed to go murder one Like it's all fucked up. It's right. It's what's fucked up is the cartoons I mean, they're cute and everything because they depict it in a way how well it's just completely distorted

You have these animals that are talking to each other and the hunters are always assholes and like it It wasn't for hunters hunters there would be no humans We'd have never made it this far if we're all just eating fucking tubers and grapes and shit We would have never made it do you like garbanzo beans not bad. I don't have you ever hunted one It's possible. Yeah. What about the sexual connotations of Disney? Did you ever hear that thing that Walt Disney had the biggest porn collection of all time? Really? That's what I heard.

I don't know how much of it is true. Have you ever seen how- There's like the Rod Stewart thing and there's the- Oh, right. The Richard Gere thing. Right. I don't know how much of it is. Move over to Jamie. Did Walt Disney have a gigantic porn collection I wouldn't be

surprised a lot of people that are like really into kids stuff and like sweet wholesome stuff they did they have that other kind of slant yeah they need or eventually flip maybe maybe it's a cover or maybe it's like they're so cutesy with the fucking completely wholesome stuff that they have to balance it out with some bonded shit. Some fucked up shit. Some guys getting kicked in the nuts and ballgagging. Why is it that people feel that people in Hollywood and Texans are like that?

Like I know people that have moved to Texas and they've called me. There was one guy that I used to work out with in Venice and he started, he moved here and he called me and he'd be like, hey man, you know, the list is coming out. And I'd go, what list? And he goes, you know, the list. The list. And I go, am I on the list?

Oh no. And he goes, no, you're clean. You're good. But I know you know who's on the list. I'm glad I know I didn't do anything wrong even though I didn't do anything wrong. And I said but why are you, like a two-fold thing, why are you under the impression that everybody in Hollywood lives under the same roof? Like we all live in the same apartment complex. It's they. It's they. Yeah, they. They are out there. They're out there doing that thing. Yeah. And then

what would, how could you possibly think think that a guy who's a trainer at Gold's in Venice would have the list? Why was he chosen? Well, he goes on Reddit. And that's how you get the list. That's how you get the list. I still am waiting for the list. Yeah.

I think I'm going to see him when I'm here. We started communicating again. Well, when you have things like the Epstein client list that doesn't get released, then it fuels these kinds of conspiracy theories about there being a list. So why is that list not released? That's a very good question.

Who has that list? Powerful people. Well, for sure someone has the list. Colleen Maxwell's in jail, right? So she must have talked. There must have been conversations. And there must be a bunch of very powerful people that are on that list. And you know, are all the powerful people in cahoots?

Was something that I learned like when I played when I played W, I played a senator. What was that like? What is it like playing a guy who's still alive? Did you meet with him with him at all? Scary. I mean, it no I wanted to. Did you ever meet him? hang out with him at all? Scary. I mean, I wanted to. Did you ever meet him? No.

God, that's weird, right? I had the opportunity to meet him afterwards, and there was something about him that was more... I remember when he was giving candy to Michelle Obama and all that, and it was a really friendly kind of a mischievous thing, and I was like, I would like to meet him. And then I saw his paintings of his dogs, and and I said I don't want to meet him. I just don't like it was something attractive for a moment. I don't know and I love paintings. I don't know what it was but you didn't like the paintings. No it's not that I didn't like the paintings.

There's something in the paintings. There was I don't know what it was. You know what something in the paintings is I killed a million people with fake weapons of mass destruction. We had a fake story and I used that story to justify an invasion of a country and now a million people are dead. So that's the question. And I'm haunted every night. Totally.

I just paint dogs. That are staring like that. Like your face right now is exactly how every eye is in his dog's paintings. It's so funny That guy must be medicated. They must put him on some things so he could sleep. Is that that look? I think I don't put into his dog's eyes the look that he has always or at least that he feels right Like there's a haunted his lens his real look his eyes. Yeah, how he sees the world How is it like running around knowing that you did that? Not just that you did that, but that there's no culpability. No one went to jail for that. No one even got brought up on charges for that. Well,

that's what I was bringing up because when I would meet these people, I went to the Senate floor and I met a lot of these people and then I met a lot of rich people, which is when I met Trump actually, the 21 club, back when I knew a lot about him I was fascinated by the whole what's that 21 Club 21 Club is a place that he used to go a lot and it was like you know yeah you have a chance to meet this billionaire this bill yeah so he was I gonna say is he oh meeting these, meeting these people, especially getting them drunk, you know, where people get super honest, you know, where they go, you know, you know, I trust you. I trust you. And you're like, here it comes. Here it comes. Whereas before that,

they were like, you know, I'm not sure. And I just, what I think is, you know, and then they finally go, I just fucked her. I fucked her. I can't, you know, and you're like, oh, or they tell you what's going on. But the thing that I learned and I'm really curious about, like what we were talking about Hollywood and the perception of them all being in it together is don't you think the rivalries and all that, not entirely, but that all politicians are basically under the same roof. They all know what each other's doing and that there's more of an agenda of power to keep the public Thinking a certain way. Well, there's brainwash certainly a benefit to that. Of course there Yeah, there's a benefit to that and then there's also

The the underlying factor is money, of course, like there's so much money and influence. There's so many special interest groups. There's so many lobbyists. That's what I mean. There's so many massive corporations that are donating to campaigns. So there's always going to be this desire to sort of color things in a certain life. Satiate, pacify. Yeah, yeah, for sure. And then treat you like you're a baby so they can continue making insane amounts of money I give you someone like Nancy Pelosi

And you're worth hundreds of millions of dollars and you make a hundred seventy thousand dollars a year and there's no fucking explanation Yeah, like just that alone like you have to kind of keep people in the dark You have to kind of like keep dancing and yeah Otherwise you're going to jail like someone's gonna start investigating and they gotta go hey what you did is not legal And you're gonna be in real trouble How'd you what's your relationship like with money? In what way just in what you made a certain amount of money for a long time I don't think about it. You don't think about it. No. No what I like about money is to not think about it

That's what I like. Do you like spending it? I like buying stuff me too. I have a nice car drove here drove a 69 Camaro See that like that friend. Yeah, like that's fucking different. That's character. I like fun stuff, but fun stuff for the most part I'm not interested in it like as a goal, you know I just I don't what I like about money is not having to think about it Hmm my friend Brian Cowen said this to me once he said he, real freedom is when you can go to a restaurant and not worry about anything costs. He's like, everything else is bullshit. And it really is.

Everything else is bullshit. When you just go to a restaurant, get a nice steak, order a bottle of wine, have a good time and not think about the bill. What I think happens is, and be grateful for it. And to remind yourself to be that that exists to be grateful for and not be taken advantage of. And I think that's one of the hardest things about money slash power,

is you start treating things as if they're underneath you. Where you go, God, I'm so glad I can go anywhere in the world right now and get a meal, and I don't have to think about how am I gonna pay for this? Am I gonna be in debt on my credit card? But when you start saying, excuse me, I said 204 degrees, not 190. Read my list. You know, and you're like, oh, man.

That's just gross. It is gross, but it happens. That's just taking advantage of this relationship that everyone knows, where service people have to be nicer than they really would be normally, like a regular person. So people that- Hoping for a tip, hoping for one of your many hundreds of thousands or hundreds of millions of dollars.

Yeah, it's disgusting. It's a gross way to treat people, but some people want to get rich so they could do that to people. Maybe someone did it to them when they were younger and they're like, I can't wait to do this to other people. I mean, when you said nice car and they were like, I can't wait to do this to other people. I mean, when you said nice car and you were like, I thought you were going to say, I was like, oh, please, no. Like Lamborghini or something.

No, I don't have any of those. And then? No, I like muscle cars. I like old muscle cars. That's my favorite. That's like me at 37 Knucklehead. And people say, oh, is that an affectation? I know you're friends with Momoa or whatever.

I go, no, man, I've been riding motorcycles since I was three and a half years old. They're fun They're not only fun. There's something on us if you read Zen in the art of motorcycle maintenance Which is the only book that's ever been written that kind of gets close to the kind of spiritual place if you're a true Motorcyclists whether you're riding with your son or whether you're writing with a grid of guys or whatever that beautiful Thunderous hum when you're in it when you're in a group of guys who really know what they're doing and you're an absolute fucking sink Yeah, yes, your arms are up here and your arms are pretty numb at that point, but you're fucking soaring You're an eagle on a fucking jet stream. You heard a hunter s Thompson and you know that documentary they did gonzo

Yeah, like that in the documentary the very beginning he talks about riding a motorcycle. Oh, I don't remember that highway I don't remember. Oh, it's fucking great. See if you can find that he talks about riding a motorcycle How about like that the the lines begin to blur? Yeah, yeah, and you just you're just on the edge. And how alive you are. It's a fucking fantastic speech. We don't have to get into this book right away. But there was, I wrote, they came to me,

it's the only story that I wrote that somebody asked me to write for the book. And they were like, well, you're really into motorcycles. Why don't you write a story about motorcycles? And I tried. And it was just bad and bad. And everything I wrote was like so forced and bullshit and finally I said I can't do it I'm not gonna write

it in the minute I said I'm not gonna do this I started writing it just kind of started to come out and it's good do you write by hand I do yeah mostly you feel more of a connection no right I do it cuz I like to tell you which way whether it's on the phone whether you know I remember people saying like I write you know by hand I hand write because it's it the phone, whether, you know, I remember people saying, like, I write, you know, by hand, I hand write because it's the way it used to be. And I was like, yeah, also used to be under candlelight, which fucked your eyes out. You know what I mean?

Also used to be people had slaves. Yeah. Also you could only get around by horse. Pain on caves and shit. Why don't you go paint on a cave? Tell me a story. Try to get it published. Yeah, get a witch doctor to take care of your broken leg.

I don't care how it comes out. I think real writing is anywhere, anytime, however you can get it out. I don't think there's a muse that's needed. I think it's work, man. It is work. It's labor. I think the muse is like, it's a concept, right? Have you ever read Pressfield's The War of Art?

Yeah, of course. Great book. Great book. I think he's right, though, when he says you summon the muse when you sit down to work, but that's also just like an intention thing. Like you have so much time and effort put on a thing and when you do that, your mind gets more in sync with creativity. But if you treat it like it's a muse, it actually does work.

Like if you show up every day and like say, click into that thing, pay respect to the muse, I'm sitting here and I'm ready to write and I'm a professional and I'm ready to go. If you show up every day and like say, click into that thing. Pay respect to the muse. I'm sitting here and I'm ready to write. I'm a professional and I'm ready to go and treat it like you're summoning the muse. It actually works. There actually is an effect that happens. I don't know if there's an actual muse,

but you can understand why someone would think that there's a muse because that- Why do people chant? Why do people meditate? Why do people that? That's the muse whatever the news is it's like talking about God what's God I don't know it depends on who you're talking to yeah God has a feeling yeah something that that fucking thing that keeps you inspired it keeps the gasoline at a high octane well it's something that's how I

see it it's something that gets you away from your ego like with writing something gets you away from your ego, like with writing, something that gets you away from your ego and into your mind, into your consciousness, into your perceptions of things, your ability to express it. And it's a focused thing. And the more you focus on it, the more that muscle grows, the more you get adapted to it.

Because your ego is worried about how people are gonna perceive you. And that's not right. You're writing for somebody else. You wanna look cool, people are gonna perceive you right and that's not right You want to look cool people like fuck Read that book then you wrote man. Holy shit. I had no idea you're amazing Cocktail party in Hollywood some guy comes up to you tells you you're amazing you are a genius I had and it's always with those so incredible no idea Meanwhile that guy's trying to sell you on some multi-level marketing scheme or

something there's something he's trying to tap into you with I want to buy that book I want to option your book I also have a script I'd love you to see yeah is it a Disney is it about animals talking I really love about living in Texas there's no Hollywood there's no show business I really love about living in Texas is there's no Hollywood. There's no show business I don't have to deal with any of these people with like alternative agendas We just move to say we just I want to go back to that, but we just moved to Santa Barbara Awesome, Santa Barbara. It's funny. Why does everybody fucking think that it is? I love it out there So why ready because it's beautiful because it's beautiful. What about the people? Oh

I love it out there. So why? Because it's beautiful. Because it's beautiful. What about the people? I'm not a little elitist. There's a lot of elitist people out there. So I grew up in Santa Barbara. I was in Paso Robles, which is ranch country about two hours above Santa Barbara. And then we moved to Santa Barbara when I was 11. And it was Montecito, but it was a very different Montecito. Like, yes, there were a couple of rich people yes my dad was doing okay by then he had done Marcus Welby did at that time he did Amityville Horror so he had a little bit of money but we bought you know what would now be a 35 million dollar home in Montecito right he bought for $600,000 same fucking house right you know what I mean so it's a different Montecito and then whatever you know group I grew up with. But I went

to, the point is I went to jail there a lot. I just did. I just liked it. Instead of the museum I went to jail. I was like no mom I'm gonna go to jail today. And then so in LA Venice Beach, I love Venice Beach, but Venice Beach has even changed. You know, you used to know everybody and everybody kind of coexisted beautifully. And then Venice Beach changed. It got totally randomly violent. Yeah, we became very dangerous. Very dangerous.

Little kids. Okay, so we moved to Malibu. We were close to Laird. I know Laird and Gabby and all that thing. But it never landed. So we were always talking about moving, even though we were kind of building a house and we were finalizing everything.

We're always talking, we talk about Texas, my mom's from Texas, we were talking about East Coast, we were talking about Europe, all these places, but never Santa Barbara. I would never move back to Santa Barbara. Because by the way, honey, if we move to Santa Barbara, which you love so much and you think is so beautiful, our little girls will eventually for sure go to prison.

That was in my mind. Why? Because in my mind, I built totally. Most of my friends that grew up in Montecito are dead. Like 36 out of 50. Really? Oh yeah. Yeah, they all died. From what?

Heroin epidemic, punk rock, driving accidents. 36 out of 50 really. Oh, yeah. Yeah. They all from what heroin epidemic punk rock Oh God driving accidents 36 out of 50 out of 50 Wow best friend Jason Sears who was the lead singer of Rich kids on LSD RKL which was a big punk band that influenced a bunch of people Nirvana You know Pearl Jam all these people rich kids on LSD is a great name for a look it up. Can you look it up? Pearl Jam, all these people. Rich Kids on LSD is a great name for a band. You should look it up. Can you look it up? Jason Sears, Rich Kids on LSD.

We got a tattoo at the same time. I got a tattoo from Freddie Negrete that's gone now because I removed it. But it was a big Jesus with blood coming out of the hands. And Jason that same night got the same night got eat shit on his ass. See if you can find Jason's ass that says eat shit on it. Wow. You're gonna put that in? Jason Sears eat shit. Yeah. Where is it? Oh, you got to just keep looking. Yeah, it'll be there. So why was I Oh, so eventually, when we finally said, Look, we're not moving, we should be grateful, we're not grateful enough.

That's the problem. We're not grateful enough. But Malibu just didn't kind of sit. And then one day I'm lying on my bed. What didn't you like about Malibu? I love Malibu. It's just remote. You know, like we already are remote in Paso Robles. We have a place in Paso Robles, a place where I grew up, not the ranch I grew up, it's about three miles down the road, but that's remote and a remote that I love. I love remote, but I love extremes I don't want to be sort of next to Santa Monica and it's 20 miles away

And it takes two and a half hours to get there right you and I were talking about that I don't want to sit in traffic for half my life, right? I just don't want to yeah, I'm gonna be somewhere I want to be somewhere so Santa Barbara Represented a place where you kind of had your own piece of property somewhere. So Santa Barbara represented a place where you kind of had your own piece of property, but everything was 10 minutes away. You got dance class for the girls, you got soccer, you got this, you know what I mean? So that was the thing. But never was I going to go back to Santa Barbara. I finally put on Zillow Santa Barbara. One house came up and that's the house that we bought. And it

was Joe Walsh's old house. Oh, wow. Which is amazing. That's incredible. Incredible. That's incredible. Which I was stoked. And I asked him, anyway, I have to finish the story

is that I was so freaked out about moving up to Santa Barbara. I still hadn't made the kind of transition that I contracted a mild case of Bell's palsy. Really? Yeah, like literally was stressing out. My wife was like, you gotta, and I'm not a stress guy. And she wasy. Really? Yeah. Like literally was stressing out. My wife was like, and I'm not a stress guy. And she was like, you got to mellow the fuck out.

I'm like, yeah, but you don't know what's going to happen. When we move up here, it's like, it's going to be- So your face started like sagging? So literally, I'm washing my face. I'm doing this. And it just started going, brrrr. When was this? Four months ago.

Okay. That's a side effect of the vaccine too. That's one of the side effects of COVID-19 vaccines. I've also heard that speech impediments have also, I've heard a lot of things. Kids taking vaccines and things happening. Yeah. That vaccine in particular. That one.

The mRNA one. Yeah. Yeah, I know quite a few people that develop Bell's policy from them. Well, whatever you want to call it. Are you serious? Yeah. Facial paralysis. Yeah. Yeah, I know quite a few people that develop Bell's palsy from them. Well, whatever you want to call it. Are you serious? Yeah. Facial paralysis. Yeah. I know two people specifically. I wonder if that's facial, like droopy face. Because when my older kids, when my older kids were young, there were what? 17 vaccinations. And now that my younger kids are young, there's 50. 72. Yeah. Yeah, it's a series of them, but it's ultimately 72 shots. Yeah.

Yeah. And it's a scary prospect, man. Well, the fucked up thing is if you talk about it, you're an anti-vaxxer and you're a conspiracy theorist. But that's a big one because they've done a really good job of demonizing anyone who questions a medicine that might be correlated with a bunch of fucking serious diseases Yeah, and for whatever reason profit they've they've just done a great job of gaslighting people Yeah, and scaring the shit out of people by labeling anybody who did like what could they did to Jenny McCarthy?

Do you remember when Jenny McCarthy had a kid and her kid had autism and she thought that autism? Had possibly come from vaccines and they basically ran around to Hollywood. But why would they do that? What's the reason? Money. What do they benefit money? Well, the thing is, during the Reagan administration, the vaccine companies, pharmaceutical drug

companies that are making vaccines, they said we are unable to make these vaccines if we're liable. Because if we're liable, there's too many lawsuits are going to come our way because vaccines cannot be completely safe and effective just by virtue of the mechanism in which they work. You know, you have an irritant, you have this virus, this dead virus. Your body sees the aluminum or whatever it is. It reacts to that in a negative way and it finds the dead virus. It develops antibodies just by the way they work. When you vaccinate an enormous amount of people, you're going to have a certain amount of people

that have a negative reaction. If we have lawsuits for every person that has a negative reaction, we're going to go out of business. So they made them immune. They made them immune. And you know what happened immediately? They're like, well, you need a vaccine for this and you need to go back to that. And knowing that there was no drawback hepatitis B vaccines, babies, right? When you're born, right? When you're born, you know, there's also doctors that say it doesn't even really work for babies. But what you're doing is you're

conditioning the parents to accept the fact that your child is going to get regularly vaccinated. My doctor, fortunately, our pediatrician wanted to put the kids on a different schedule, a slower schedule. And he didn't want them to have any vaccines until they were two. Trevor Burrus You're a doctor in California? Dr. Michael O'Brien Yes. But it was not like a quack. It was like, I think the way to do it, I mean, yeah, there's a schedule of vaccines your kids have to get unless you have religious

exemption. But let's not assault your children with a potential poison because everybody is different. If I take a bong hit, I might end up under the table. If you take a bong hit, you actually may feel smarter and clearer. I remember Dean Potter, who was a climber, and he was like, I stopped smoking pot for four months, but when I started smoking pot, I could feel the hold at 2,000 feet, sheer cliff,

nothing underneath, no ropes, but I felt more confident. And for me, I go, if I took a bong head up there, I could be four feet up and be freaking out right It's different for everybody. Yeah, everybody has different brains. It's like psychopharmaceuticals Mm-hmm. Let's just give them all lithium or let's give them all that you have to experiment And the idea of experimenting with that shit is super scary It is it is super scary and it's also super scary when you're not liable for any of the repercussions and you're just pushing it on people because you're a corporation and corporations just want to make money.

Their thing is just unlimited growth. They just have an obligation. Their shareholders, every quarter they want to make more money and they just keep ramping it up. Like we're doing really well this year. Yeah. I remember Seinfeld talking about that. He was like, I remember back in the 70s and comedy

You know green rooms and all that we'd all be fucking with each other and it had never had anything to do with money Because nobody was really making money like money money Like tons of money. It was just about what set are you gonna do? What are you trying out? Right? Are you gonna fail? Are you not gonna fail? Right, but it was this community again and I think that things have grown into not that I wanted to talk about this or they even thought about it before but the money thing is a very interesting thing to me you know and if you want to take it back to the book which we know about later money is like the anti-celebrity it's like how do

you stay grounded how do you stay accountable and why would you stay accountable because I actually give a fuck about people instead of just being in it for myself. Yeah. I think that's the difference. Well I think one of the things that happens to people with money is you didn't have money when you were young, now all of a sudden you have money and you get really scared about losing that money. Yeah, you get scared it's gonna go away because now you realize oh my god it's so much better not have to worry about your bills and so much better to have some money to buy things Yeah, and then you start thinking only about money and start making decisions only for money

And then you go down the weird road and it you know really distorts artists it Fucks a lot of people up. You know you see it in a lot of bands They start making like poppy songs when they used to be like raw and gritty when they were younger they speak it used to be like authentic and then also they're making like theme songs for films that it's like weird fucking romance songs for Romcoms. Like Aerosmith went through a bunch of that shit. Totally. Where to me as an Aerosmith you know lover as a kid to see them you know go from like dream on to like the shit they were now and I wonder with like drug addiction and all that I wonder if

that's like if the parallel is I went back to heroin at that point because I just couldn't fucking deal do you know what I mean I think it's when they get off heroin they start wanting to make money I don't know I need to make some money I spent all my fucking money but look at I wonder if there's any connection like with member of Philip Seymour Hoffman, like one of the greatest actors that ever lived. And I've known his mother since I was doing theater in Rochester, New York.

He was like a 20 year old, 21 year old. And she would come up to me and she'd say, I think you're a fine actor. And I'd go, oh, thank you very much. And she goes, you know, my son just moved to New York. He like, he wants to be an actor. And I said, oh, what's his name? Phil.

Phil's his name. Oh, well, tell Phil good luck. Good luck to Phil. And it's like anybody who wants to be an actor, just the odds of it happening, it's just not going to happen. And then Phil became this guy, 22 years of sobriety, who had an inkling in the beginning and said, you know what? I don't want this to control like my thing.

So I'm not going to do it. I'm going to give everything I am to acting and I'm going to try to make the best career, theater career, movie career, whatever. And then, you know, and I, again, I have it in the book where I see him on the street and I'm crazy and I've gotten into a fight with my wife and I'm walking down Columbus Avenue and I have cords on, I have no shoes, I have no shirt on my way, I'm out of my fucking head and I look to my left and I see Nick Nolte at a cafe and we lock eyes and I've never met Nick Nolte, I've never seen him and it will happen that I actually

will have a relationship with him later on but we lock eyes and the moment is he's seeing in me what he used to be or seeing in me what I'm to become. I'm seeing in him what I'm to become later, right? Right. Then I see Philip Seymour Hoffman, who's standing there talking, I go, hey, Phil, it's Josh. What's up? You're doing so well, man.

Fuck, good for you, dude. No shirt, no shoes. And he's standing there with one foot pointed toward me and another foot pointed in the direction that he wants to go. You know how people stand there and they're like, could you see him, man? Yeah, good. Good. Oh no. Now how is that the guy that died of a heroin overdose? Did he get injured? No, no, he just got back on it because sometimes it what happens is People get I know and they have surgery and then they have back and then they get on

I know what if you caught me to I know a lot of people that that's kind of been the trajectory No pain nothing to me. There's another parallel and the parallel is I just want to make money finally. I'm sick of doing independence I'm sick of doing this and not making any money and then you start doing you know, whatever he was Hunger Games Or and then you feel hollow and then you want to fill yourself talking about right? You want to numb yourself up because you feel like a whore you feel like a whore Yeah, it's like there's one thing about like actually finding solace and saying hey man I'm older I'm gonna do this movie I get it I would like you know I got college coming up for my kids and you justify it in a way that's okay and then there's one

thing about you've identified yourself so much as an artist that to release yourself from that identity in other people's minds again going back to the ego that you just just fucks you up right and then you want to escape from That to release yourself from that identity in other people's minds again going back to the ego That you just just fucks you up, right? And then you want to escape from your reality. Exactly. Yeah, you want to numb yourself? Yeah Well, that is a real fucking thing man. And if you've ever done a project Where it's like really I did a really bad sitcom once and uh, I remember you acted it. Oh, yeah Yeah, it was terrible and I remember

while I was doing it I was just imagining like what if this is my life what if this stupid piece of shit sitcom goes for like 10 years and I have to keep you because there's sitcoms that inexplicably are very successful or were in the 90s yeah and very successful and they were terrible terrible they're terrible people love them well people want to be eating ice cream they just want to slack draw sit in front of the computer or whatever the TV and eat spaghetti Oh's just fucking numb themselves to some mundane bullshit And if you're doing that kind of a thing you live in hell and a lot of those people that do those things

They wind up doing drugs because they just feel very lost you do that and you're doing you live in hell Yeah, you live in hell which it it is, to me, to you. It sounds crazy to a person listening, oh, you're making $50,000 a week, how are you living? You're living in hell. Like, what are you talking about? No, no, no, that's not the point. Most people would be like, that's great.

That would be amazing. But if you want to do a thing, if you want to be a great comic or you want to be a great actor, and you're doing some- You have to have incentive. Right. You have to want to create something really good. Right. And when you can't create something really good And you're doing some- You have to have incentive. Right, you have to have, you have to wanna create something really good. And when you can't create something really good and you're just doing it for money,

you feel trapped and you feel like shit. And then you have to reward yourself for this stupid fucking thing you do. So what do you do? You go out and buy a nice Mercedes, you get a fucking house in Malibu, now you have a large monthly nut that you have to cover. But when you take people over your house,

like, look how I'm living, look at this ocean view, come on, come on. How much of this house do you use? Nothing. Almost nothing. But I always say to my friends, my young comic friends that are coming up, your house is just your house. I remember when I first got a nice apartment when I moved to North Hollywood in 1994, I got a loft apartment and a pool table in it and a nice stereo and I was like this is incredible. I have a nice apartment. This is amazing. And then after a while it just became my house. It became where I live. And I realized at that moment like oh this is it's all the same feeling like all you need in a house is it to be comfortable. You need a TV in a kitchen and a couch in a bed. It's the place that you sleep. Yeah, it's a place where you relax.

It's not the place where you live the entirety of your life. You can relax almost anywhere that's comfortable and safe. That's all you need. And then everything else is kind of bullshit. It's kind of the things that you get for your money. It's like there's a lot of things that people spend a lot of money on, and they're not really worth it. You don't really get anything out of it.

That's why it was interesting walking in here and you know man cave I hate that fucking term man cave man cave you know it's a gay cave you know well it's man cave because no woman would ever let me decorate this place this way but it's not that no woman wouldn't like it I think there's there's some my wife likes it when she comes here she doesn't want to live in it she doesn't want to live do you want to live in it no I wouldn't want to live in it She doesn't want to live do you want to live in it? No, I wouldn't want to live here But I might if I was like a single guy I might decorate my house like this

But it's things the point is is that there's things when I walked in here it made me smile because I started seeing things That inspire and you like to surround yourself like if somebody comes in and does an interior design of your office Yeah, ugh. And they go, we brought in this amazing fabric from Paris. And you go, but I don't like it. And I remember when we were doing our house, we were like, I said, look, man, you can get things from Target.

I don't want to feel that people have to take, I don't want anybody to feel that they have to take their shoes off. That's what I don't, I want them to feel that they can scuff up the floor because that's the mark that they made when they walked in my house. And maybe I don't even like the scuff. I don't like that they walked so heavy, but it's their mark. We are leaving our mark. So I said, if you- That's how I feel about this table. That's why this table has all these stains on it.

Seriously, it's good. It has character. Yeah, it's alive. And that's the thing is like when we built our the ranch I said there were shelves I said I want linoleum or what is it from Ica linoleum on the shelves and we have 150 year old barn wood but along with linoleum because linoleum reminds me of like trailer parks and shit. Just makes me fucking smile. So I saw this thing when I walked in because I have one and that is Ralph Stedman's print that you have.

Oh, okay. The Hunter of Thompson print. Here's the story. So Ralph Stedman, Johnny Depp gave me Ralph Stedman's number because he was close with Hunter. And my son was graduating. My son's an artist and he was obsessed with Stedman, right? And I called Ralph Stedman, he's, hello. And I said, hey, I said, listen, you don't know me, I'm a friend of Johnny's, and this. I said, you know, my son's graduating, and like the greatest gift I could ever get him,

and this is not just to throw Stedman under the bus because it comes full circle. But he says, I said, my son's graduating, can you do like a little, I'll pay you for it, can you do, just draw a little thing for him for his graduation?" There was a long, long pause and he goes, why the fuck would I do that? So that conversation went nowhere.

I was like, what the fuck? What an asshole. And then 20 years went past and my book is designed by one of his proteges. Oh, wow. And then, so Joey Feldman, he called me one day and he said, he said, Ralph wants to send you a print. And I said, no way. Does he know that we have like a history?

And he said, no, I don't think so. So I sent him a voice memo of the history and I said, I never held it against you. I totally understand it, especially somebody. So he sent me one for my son and history and I said I never held it against you. I totally So he sent me one for my son and one for me That's cool. I love having that thing man. He was an interesting artist. He is very interesting. Yeah I should say is but I mean the the stuff that he did it's like that's also in that gonzo documentary where it talks about How hunter gave massive and mushrooms and he just started fucking writing, drawing really crazy shit. And like the thing for, do you remember the thing he did for the Kentucky Derby is decadent and depraved? Yeah, that was like the first thing, wasn't it? I think that was how they got together.

See, we can find that. The Kentucky Derby is decadent and depraved. Yeah, it's a really good article actually. Well, that was fast, dude. Yeah. But look at that. That article is fucking amazing. It's amazing article. It's one of my favorite hunter pieces. And I don't think that they spent a lot of time together, but I think...

Hunter and him? No, I don't. There's a lot of it in the documentary where they're hanging out together. Really? Yeah, he picks him up at the airport and his VW bug. No, I know it exists, but I don't think that they spent the amount of time that you would think given that they collaborated so much I think Ralph was back in Britain and Hunter was I know see that's the kind of shit do you miss

that like as part of driving your car and all that that's the thing from the put your headphones on? Yeah Take the thing out for an honest run down the coast I Would start in Golden Gate Park? Thinking only to run a few long curves to clear my head That's so good Ah, it's so good. I love seeing the sand around the curves. Hmm. I love seeing the sand in the road. Yeah!

Then into second gear, forgetting the cars and letting the beast wind out. 35, 45. Then into third, not worried about green or red signals, but only some other werewolf loaning. Now there's no sound except the wind. The needle leans down on a hundred. Wind-burned eyeballs, strange to see down the center line. No room at all for mistakes. That's great. Are those who pushed their control as far as they felt they could handle it and then pulled back or slowed down? But the edge is still out there

That guy was fucking amazing. It's great. It's great. It's fucking amazing What do you love about his writing and what type like fear and loathing? It was great. It was fucking amazing. What do you love about his writing and what type, like fear and loathing? Well, I was just reading Hell's Angels recently, actually. That's the book that I go back to most. Yeah. Well, that's really him when he was starting, right? That was the beginning of the sort of gonzo journalism stuff because he was kind of mixing in fiction with reality. That's one of the things that pissed off the Hells Angels is that he took a lot of liberties

with the truth to try to like paint a picture. Right, which was his deal, which was his style later on is like exaggerating and kind of romancing his own life. Oh, he was out of his fucking mind. Out of his mind, but he was also one of the most brilliant technical writers that ever was. And that's what's forgotten. Like even people talk about Kerouac and Kerouac was like, you know, he rode on the road and

he was on the road and it was the Hunter S. Thompson type of thing. And you're like, you know, he edited on the road for seven years. Oh, wow. And nobody knows that because Kerouac kind of like, you know, he put forth this thing of like, first thought, don't edit don't it was again like it's total horseshit oh wow that's why I say it goes back to writers it's a labor yeah you sit down and you write all the fucking time my friend Ari on his laptop he's got a little piece of paper above the keyboard that says the first draft

of everything is shit that's it is true it of paper above the keyboard that says the first draft of everything is shit. That's it. It's true. It's Hemingway. Yeah, Hemingway wrote that. Yeah. You know, his first book, Hemingway's first book was lost by his wife. What? Yeah.

She lost it? Yeah. She grabbed it for him and was on a train and then she went to the bathroom and actually left the satchel on the seat. When she came out of the bathroom, it was gone. Oh my God. Never to be found again. Oh my God. Yeah, I bathroom, it was gone. Oh my God. Never to be found again. Oh my God.

Yeah, I know, can you imagine? Oh my God. All that work. Did that marriage work out? No, thanks. I bet you did it on purpose, that bitch. Me? I bet you did it on purpose, that bitch.

Yeah, man. I love writing. I love when someone's a really good writer because you just get these like moments where you're like, yes. Oh, yeah Oh, that's it. Yeah, there's moment hunter had a lot of those moments. We like god. Damn it. That's good You have so many people who were great young and I know that there's a danger and a chaos within like the vortex Within which they lived but it couldn't survive. Do you know what I mean? When Hunter got, he was just too fucking alcoholic.

And Dylan Thomas became too fucking alcoholic. And it's one of those things that you go, you were literally writing things that aren't possible. You were putting together like wordsmithing things that are magic. Yeah. Magic. How he was describing it. It's that thing. Whatever it is you're doing, how do you get to that place which most people can't touch? Well, you can't neglect your physical health. That's the problem is that in this chase for

the muse, in this dance you do with the drugs and the alcohol and the wild writing and you know, I'm sure you've seen Hunter S. Thompson's, there's a thing that a reporter, he hung out with Hunter S. Thompson and detailed what a day in the life of Hunter S. Thompson is. Who was it? Well, there's a band called Beardy Man and Beardy Man took me and Greg Fitzsimmons reading off Hunter S. Thompson's routine, his daily routine before he writes and made a song out of it. It's fucking incredible.

See if you can find that because the routine was so insane. And this was like really what he would do. He would wake up like a discipline in the afternoon. No, no chaos. Okay, full on chaos. Here, up like a discipline in the afternoon. No, no chaos. Okay, full on chaos. Here, let's put this put the headphones. Beardy man. 3pm rise. Chivas regal with morning papers uh 6 o'clock smoking grass take the edge off the day Salad the

the the the So this is like an electronic dance music song that plays in clubs sometimes. Um, super funny. When did you do that? Oh, it was a long time ago. Many years ago. Did you ever live like that? No, no.

I've never even done coke. Wow. Yeah, I've never fucked around with coke. I like psychedelics. I like weed. I like a little alcohol every now and then, but I don't fuck around with anything that's going to kill me. I'm not interested.

Yeah. And I'm not interested in anything that helps my ego, that boosts it up, makes me fearless. That bloats it. I'm not interested in any of that. Yeah. I like things that make me scared. I like things that make me nervous. Like that's what I was talking about early on. What do you? I like to feel vulnerable. I like it. You like to challenge yourself. Yeah. I think your perception and how you perceive certain things. I think I like voluntary adversity, physical voluntary adversity, but also I think mental voluntary adversity. And I think that's what I like about psychedelics. I think you have to go on a journey and you can't control it.

It takes you somewhere. And then when you're back, you realize like, you ain't shit. Just get all that ego stuff out of your system Relax and just be appreciative and enjoy life and try to spread as much positivity as you can That's what you're here for do your best at everything you do. That's what you're here for And how do you find yourself doing that once you're not on it? I just corporation of it into your life. Just remember, you know, I just, I've, it's, so there's profound moments where I think, you know, change you forever. And those, if

you can hold onto them, some people don't hold on to them, but it's a matter of intention, right? It's a matter of like, what are you trying to do? You're trying to be better at life? Well, if you're trying to be better at life, you can hold onto it. If you're not, if you're just trying to like be the man or, you exactly you know and get all the accolades or you know win a fucking Grammy or whatever you're trying to do like if that's your real goal like you're gonna get lost because it's a shitty goal how old are you when you took a hallucinogen for the first time 30 it was 13 whoa so that's a little too early I wouldn't recommend that I wouldn't recommend it either but it

changed my life it and I had by the way I took it twice in a 24-hour period Whoa, so I took it 13 had the greatest trip ever like still affected by it And then I took it again that night and went to hell. Oh, no. I don't know. Yeah, Connie No Psychedelics what it bring you down a notch. It just did what it did. It did. It did.

And I truly believe that psychedelics, I don't do psychedelics anymore, but I think I did, but I do breath work. I do shit like that. And you go, can you get there? And I go, yeah, I've had some of the most amazing hallucinations I've ever had, most profound hallucinations I've ever had. Holotropic breathing, breath work with Laird going off, and if you do it long enough, you just reach a place,

or if you're in a sauna at 240 degrees for an hour doing breath work, you're gonna go places. Yeah, no doubt. Sensory deprivation tank, you don't need anything. You trip balls. If they could give you in a pill form the experience you get from a sensory deprivation tank, it would be a very popular drug,

and it's completely safe. And a productive deprivation tank, it would be a very popular drug. Yeah. And it's completely safe. And a productive drug. Yes, very productive. So there's sensory, you say the sensory deprivation tank, but I just saw, you can see it online or whatever, where people literally put a thing, they go into a room, there's silence. It's not like a, you know, where they don't talk, a meditation retreat or whatever, but they literally go into a room by themselves, they don't see anybody else, they put a thick mask on and they're

in for four days. Five days. Have you seen that? I have heard of people doing stuff like that. What about that? Well, I think being alone with your thoughts is uncomfortable for people and I think a lot of people avoid that. They avoid really thinking and you're forced to really think when you're in those sort

of situations. You're forced to be alone with your thoughts you know scary well we're always distracted especially now people and devices and input and news and social media and there's like constantly stuff coming in and sometimes you don't like how do I feel about everything like what do I even know do I ever really consider things like you need time alone. You need time to think. You know, that's what I really like about. That's why I work out by myself.

That's why I like you work out by yourself. Yeah. Yeah. I don't like having a trainer. I mean, I've had a lot of trainers. I appreciate them for technical advice and stuff like that. But this is a meditative aspect of working out by myself that I think is very important. It's also discipline.

Like, it's easy to go somewhere and the guy tells you, okay, 10 reps, but I write my own workouts out. And then- Based on that day. Yeah. Well, I know what I want to do. I'm pretty good at it. So I-

It's funny. I haven't heard many people say that, but I, I, I, I feel, and it's not just some bullshit, like affectation rebellious thing when I'm with it. And I appreciate trainers too. And I've had worked with some great trainers, but they make me want to do less. Why? You know, they go do 10 and I go, but why? I'm one of those assholes. I'm one of those assholes. Why? But I will actually push myself, if say 12, just for random word, a random number, 12 is my limit, I'm good at pushing myself to 15. Or Jeff Cavallari, do you know who that is? No.

Athlean-X. Oh yeah, you ever heard of that guy, yeah. Super smart guy. Yeah. And we would go back and forth and I'd be like, look, if I'm at my last three reps, why do we have to rest for two minutes? Like who said that who made that up? Is it really a recovery thing two minutes before you can go back into 12 more reps?

What if we just rest 30 seconds and then you're right back into That thing almost immediately of what and those are the things that are tearing the tissues and growing the muscle and all that kind of stuff So just experimenting with it all again this all goes back down to what we watched And those are the things that are tearing the tissues and growing the muscle and all that kind of stuff. So just experimenting with it all. Again, this all goes back down to what we watched, of like, what are we doing to just live a little more vividly? How are we pushing ourselves?

How are we changing our perception? How are we pushing our perception? Well, it depends on what you're trying to do, right? If you're just trying to get like conditioned, yeah, give yourself the minimal amount of rest and do it for as long as possible and then take time off afterwards for your body to heal and then get back after it. But it depends on what you're trying to do.

If you're trying to get strong, I always recommend taking out like long periods of time in between sets. I take like five minutes, maybe even more in between sets. To come back in at your strongest. To tell your body. Yeah, but I have long workouts. My workout's like two hours sometimes, two and a half hours, because I have these long breaks in between.

But because of that, it's... You know Pavel Tatselinia? No. He's one of the godfathers of kettlebells. He's one of the first people that introduced kettlebells to America from Russia. And their philosophy, his strong first philosophy, is that strength is a skill. And you don't work on a skill when you're tired. So it's all about how many repetitions you do,

and that's what builds strength. So it doesn't mean you have to do 10 in a row. Say if 10 is your max, say if you pick up a weight, and you could do 10 cleans and presses, and on the 10th one you're like, ugh! His philosophy is do five. Do five, five wait a long time do another five hmm so you've got the ten and but you've got the ten and with perfect form right and then you're still getting the same amount of repetitions but you're not breaking yourself down to the point

where you might get hurt or where you're doing it incorrectly or form so that's how I talked I talked to me too I talked to my wife a lot about that my wife would say because I got I'm all about form Yes, because otherwise you just get hurt and you get a point. Yeah, I rarely get hurt from lifting weights And I've ever gotten hurt in jujitsu. Oh, yeah Surgeries and fucking bulging discs and torn this and torn that yeah, you have to Trying to kill each other Your body so people are doing that to you I had sciatica for a year and a half we Bad sciatica nine millimeter slip slip between L5 and S1.

How'd you get rid of it? And they wanted to do surgery. And I had had surgery when I was really young because I had a slip disc between C5 and C6. And they took out part of my hip and they went in through my neck. They moved everything over and they replaced my disc with part of my hip back when they used to do that. They used to replace your disc with part of your hip?

Yeah, they would chisel out a part of your hip. Like a bone? Yeah. And that's what your disc was now? A piece of bone? It is now. That doesn't even make sense. Your disc is supposed to be spongy.

I know, I don't understand why. They put a piece of bone in there? Yeah, and it worked. Really? It actually worked, yeah. Dr. Delamorder, I never forget his name. Jesus. So yeah, and then they used cadaver bone for a while, It actually worked. Yeah. Dr. Delamorder. I never forget his name. Jesus. Now they have articular.

So yeah. And then they used cadaver bone for a while and now they use what? Well, it depends. There's artificial discs. I know a couple of people that have artificial discs. And it worked. Yeah. My friend Eddie got it done in his lower back.

He was basically bone on bone, constant inflammation. So he got a titanium articulating disc that's in his back. What is this? Surgeon may take a small piece of bone from the hip called an autograft to use in a neck surgery called interior cervical disectomy and fusion. The bone is placed between the space between the vertebrae to stimulate bone healing

and promote fusion. Oh, so you got your neck fused. Yeah, they call it a Brolin graft. Oh really? No. Eh. Hey. Hey. Wow, so that's different. That's you got your hip, your neck

fused. Fused. Which they probably don't even do fusion. They do. If it's a massive break or something like that. Yeah I don't recommend it. There's other ways you can heal bulging discs and one of them is there's a process called Regenekin and Regenekin is I had that done in LA in Santa Monica. They used to do it in Germany. You used to have to go to Germany to do it and like Kobe Bryant went over there and Peyton Manning went over there and what they do is they take your blood out. It's like platelet rich plasma. It's a more advanced. It's more advanced version of it and they spin your blood in the centrifuge and they add some stuff to it and it turns it into like one of the most potent anti-inflammatories and

then what they do is you lie down there and they inject it in your back. They have like these little needles. I think there's an Instagram post of me getting it done on my lower back. Did you have a slipped disc in your lower back? Bulging. It's essentially a bulging disc but it can go back. Bulging disc can go back. That was my experience. You also have to have traction, like decompression. So there's a bunch. There it is. So that's my back. I had that done. So they take that

and they stick all that shit. But all that. And they drill that, don't they? They just put holes. No, it's just needles. No, but I know it's needles, but it's not like acupuncture. They actually drill that, then they put the needle in, don't they? No. No, it's just, it's just needles. I know it's needles, but it's not like acupuncture. They actually drill that, then they put the needle in, don't they? No. No, they just shove that needle in place. It's just like a syringe. On each side of your spinal column, right? Yeah.

It's like a syringe, and then inside the syringe, they pump in the Regenekine stuff, and then it fills those areas up with this platelet- plasma that's been enhanced and it just heals everything And did you feel like a house? Oh, yeah, absolutely It helped my neck so much. My neck was so fucked. Jack. My neck was so fucked I was getting numb fingers and pain in my elbow. Is that now do you really? You should go go to that place. Yeah, and when I ride ride motorcycles also yeah my hands up like I mean I have shoulder issues But I have a that slip disc was a nine millimeter slip Why this looks cooler does it not to me it looks super cool when you're doing it right

This looks retarded this looks good. This looks like you could put it up super high you can move it up super high This is that looks retarded turn. Yeah, like how you turn like that? You're not gonna do a good job You look like a gorilla better That's better. What about that? This is better. What about this? Well, what do coddies? I mean, that's like you're down like that's right That's when I finally crashed was it to Coddy. Oh really you went crazy. No, I didn't go crazy I didn't do anything differently with parley's you go slower, right? You ride it's about it's loud. So you know you're there Yeah, that's a big it's huge. They have electric bikes now. I'm like, do you want to die fast?

They're so fast, but do you want to die? The big nobody can hear you know, I'm writing in a grid of 16 guys Yeah, every because everybody thinks Hell's Angels. I go, there's nothing about it that's trying to emulate Hell's Angels, Mongols, any of that one percenter thing, but when you hear that rumble coming down the road, you can't wait to get the fuck out of the way. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. And that helps us. That's true.

That definitely helps you stay alive. Yeah, man. Yeah, loud pipes save lives. I've heard that many times. So to finish that thought, what I did was is I went to, I started, instead of resting, which is what doctors normally say, they say, do surgery, do surgery, rest, sleep, see if that helps. If it doesn't help, do surgery. And I did the opposite, which later, Laird was like, anytime you get hurt, Laird will

be like movement movement movement movement But this was before all that but I started working out and it got worse and it got worse and worse But I continued to work out and I started running and I started doing pistol squats and all this kind of shit And then one day it was gone and I never came back really never came back So you just beat it out of you beat it out of me. Wow. Yeah. Yeah movement is everything This is every relation and we need blood in there, which is why they do PRP Which is why they do stem cell work or whatever Yeah, and if you're just sitting there the problem is you're also gonna your body's gonna atrophy

Yeah, you're gonna lose strength and then it's gonna make whatever Injured that area in the first place. That was always promoted by doctors Why would that always be promoted by doctors again whether it's politicians or whether it's doctors or whether it's they're telling you this is You got eat from the four food groups, man You're gonna die otherwise, you know, you know that just a lot to that stuff But the you know, the Ford group for food group shit is a lot of it's people just not knowing what the fuck they're talking That's what I mean and And also there's a different perception back then of like what was healthy versus now but it's also a lot

of these doctors they're not athletes and they don't really understand like what's possible with the body they just know how to fix things when they break right and then for the average person they say just rest because the average person is not gonna fucking do what you're doing anyway so it's like why why tell them like what you really need to do is movement constant movement and just beat that injury into submission that's right and no one's gonna tell you that how do I feel better lose some weight yeah like go do that uncomfortable thing start walking start slow maybe jog a little bit maybe lift a little something that's

why when you see those videos of these guys that just For whatever is in their personality. They've had fucking enough. They're 400 pounds and they go that's it. Uh-huh buck stops here Yeah, I'm gonna start doing my shit. Yeah, they hit rock bottom. They hit rock bottom Yeah, and then you see this again what we were talking about before incentive where they just go I don't give a shit Well, it's not the same with everything, isn't that how you quit drinking? You just hit rock bottom? I was just about to say that. Yeah, but you don't, I don't, I hit rock bottom when I was 15, you know? I was shooting coke at 15.

Jeez. So, yeah, the thing that you didn't wanna try. I did wanna try. But that was that group. That's why so many of those guys died. Yeah. You know what I mean? So, when I look at Hunter S. Thompson, who I love as a writer,

when I look at Dylan Thomas, who I love as a writer, when I look at Dylan Thomas, who I love as a writer, and all these guys that had this kind of amazing life, and I feel too, parallel. I had an amazing life, except nobody cared about mine. People really cared about theirs. I was just Josh that you wanted to stay the fuck away from.

Well, like, that motherfucker's great to spend like an hour with. And then once it hits 10 o'clock, and the moon comes out out and the clouds part You don't want to be anywhere around Yeah, yeah, then you get to that point where you go. When did Hunter s Thompson? when did these guys just become like Some kind of clown mask of themselves, right? Do you know what I mean?

Well in the end Hunter was definitely that you ever see when hunter was on Conan O'Brien show No, it was horrible. He could barely talk. You barely could understand him His everything is a mumbling Was everything it was real weird and you know, he was he got a gunfight with his fucking neighbors He's like shooting at his neighbors. That's what I mean. Yes at what point does it turn on drunk? But it wasn't just that his body was like rapidly deteriorating him replacement surgery and and he was only sixty that's not old no no not that old that's young that old for what do you 57 I'm 56 yeah like my mom died at 55 the whole thing this book became was my

mom dying at 55 and me thinking back then she lived a nice long life. Isn't that crazy? It's fucking crazy and it turned out that I was 55 when I wrote the book which I'd never even... the book kind of dictated itself and then I went holy fuck I'm 55. Wow. I'm super young. I'm fucking super young. Like this I have some joint issues but I'm young for the most part. For the most part. Yeah, you're physically healthy. You're not falling apart.

You just have a few issues, which is just wear and tear of life. That's it. Yeah, but there's some people that if you don't take care of yourself and you don't eat well, and there's also a lot of other factors, genetic factors, but you could fall apart pretty quick. But if you're a guy like Hunter that's doing coke and drinking every night, you can't do that. No, you can't.

And the writing was bad. The only time he wrote anything good in later years was 2001, right after 9-11. Right after 9-11, he wrote this great piece. I want to say it was like for Sports Illustrated. I forget who he wrote it for, but he wrote this really great piece talking about what happens next After the Twin Towers fall it's like he wrote this thing about waking up in the morning Seeing the Twin Towers fall and then realizing what what's what's ahead for us, right? It was very pressing It was very good. It was very it was was accurate

Dead on it was dead on and it was vintage hunter. It's like he tapped back into it again ESPN ESPN, that's it Yes, and this is the article. Yes, would you send me this article if it's an? Yeah This is you know, this is the whole thing Yeah, I mean what's so so great is when you go, I mean, this is kind of popping all over the place, but when you go back and you look at all the politicians, whatever side, you know, whatever, whatever red, blue they lean toward, it didn't matter because Hunter was there

kind of looking for something different and it wasn't all about him. When it came down, they all describe Hunter as this like, crazy, it was so much fun to hang out with him, but there was never a lack of, he was super intelligent and wanted the best for everybody. He wanted- He was a real patriot. He was a true patriot.

Yeah, well did you ever read Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail? That's one of the more interesting pieces because you got this guy who's following around the Campaign Trail and he knows he's only in it for this one time, so he's not like any of these other reporters. He's just writing a book.

These other people are coming. Yeah, well, exactly. And not only that, you can't, because he's gonna write a book. He's writing a book. You can't fire him. Yeah, whether you like it or not, he's writing that book. But he's dropping acid, he's talking to these guys

into drinking, he's taking all these like fucking nerdy Political reporters and he's introducing them to a perspective that they they're not aware of they don't know anybody like that And the book is fucking incredible And when you see gonzo when you see it's funny how much we're talking about her Thompson But when you see gonzo, I don't know if it was in gonzo or another documentary You see how they're affected by it You see a humanity in them because of him that you don't normally get to say don't you agree? Yeah Yeah, he made you question a lot of things. Yeah, and when people question things, they're like, what am I doing? I'm like, what? Yeah, why am I here?

What is my purpose or do I have a purpose when I was young and I just fell into this political status quo And he even was questioning, like in the documentary, he was like, I don't even know what people want anymore. Do they want Hunter S. Thompson or they want Gonzo? Like that's not even me anymore. I'm a prisoner of this thing that I've created. And that's the thing that happens to people where they develop this sort of image and persona.

Yeah. And then you feel like you're trapped by it. People have expectations when they meet you Kennison talked about that. Did you know Kirsten? No Unfortunately, did you know shit? Yeah, and not because of drugs just because I was around what year was this When did he die a? 90 ish to 92 maybe I was in New York so it had to be pre 94 Probably 90 somewhere around then I would say 90 I knew him

90 wow it was through a friend that I met him and then he liked me wow and sweet incredibly sweet guy He was a motherfucker dude mother. We just got a this guy does bottle cap art Yeah, go to my Instagram Jamie and see that photo this guy just made this insane Bottle cap art piece of Kinnison for my comedy club, and we put it up last night. Is he a hero of yours? Oh, yeah, he was one of the first That's all bottle caps that oh no shit. Yeah, those are bottle caps. Have you seen them? Wow, man. That's like in prison when they use cigarette packs and do... Patricia Arquette gave me a piece of art with a bunch of cigarette packs put together. Oh, really?

Yeah, they make frames. That was it. They make frames. Oh, wow. Same kind of thing. Yeah, this guy, his name is Jam Bottle Cap Art, J-A-M Bottle Cap Art. He does a bunch of different pieces with bottle cap art. Yeah, he's really good It's really really cool stuff. You need my picture outside. I saw all your mug shots I love to have a mug shot of you. Is it good? How fucked up do you look? I got a smile on my face when somebody smiles during a mug shot. I always find that really funny

So when you met Kinnison, was it at a show? Was it just... No. Oh, it might have been the comedy club. Okay. Comedy store maybe? I'd only been a few times. Sorry, comedy store.

He was out of there by then. He was out of there by 90. Well, what's the one down the road by where Green Blatt's used to be? Laugh Factory. Yeah. Yeah, you like those? I do. I love those things.

Very much. The Laugh Factory. The Laugh Factory. It might have been that that yeah, he got kicked out of the comedy store. I think in like 87 no Then it wasn't there. Yeah, it's probably the laugh factory cuz that's not where I met him I met him at a house. Okay, I met him at a house and I never went to a lot of those parties I was not just not part of that Sam wasn't invited But I but I met him and I and he just he was really sweet man. He would like mellow out. It wasn't like a thing. It wasn't an act all the time. Right.

You know, he was a prisoner to that thing that he became for sure. Yeah. His brother wrote a great book. It's called Brother Sam. It's really, really good book describing like the ascent of his career and how it fucked him up and what happened to him And what do you think it was? I mean was drugs drugs and partying and just stratospheric. Yeah. Yeah Wasn't it instantaneous for him? He quick so in 1986 he's on Roddy Dangerfield's young comedian special and then he does an insane To this day holds up HBO Hour. And then those two things, and then an album

that he made called Louder Than Hell, and those things are the best things he ever does. Everything after that becomes like a significant drop-off, and in the end, he was basically a caricature of who he used to be. Yeah, a caricature of himself, exactly. And he just was captured Yeah, but it's also imprisoned there wasn't anybody to tell you how to do it back then there was only a few like

Massively famous comedians back then there wasn't a lot of us. It wasn't it wasn't like today today. There's like a giant community of comedians we all talk to each other and figure it out together. And everybody's just about making better stuff. It's not about getting hugely famous. The ones that just wanna get hugely famous, they're all mentally ill. And usually their career drops off, their comedy starts to suck. They're trying to do the wrong thing.

So in Kinnison in the beginning, he just wanted to be the best he could be. He just wanted to be really fucking good at comedy and coming from this tent preacher, so he's like this revival tent preacher and then he gets into stand-up comedy and he has this charisma and this ability to deliver that's so different than everybody else. And he's this short fat guy so when he talks about being married and living in hell like kind of like empathize with like this fucking guy's amazing and revolutionized comedy changed comedy he was the first guy that I ever saw that made me think I could do comedy because

before then I loved comedy I always loved stand-up but I loved it because it was funny I would just like to watch you know Jerry Seinfeld on TV oh these guys are so funny funny because you're so different than he is and yet he was the one that you paralleled with that liberated you? Yeah, well he was wild. That was the thing. I never felt like I fit in. I always felt like I didn't want to be around polite people. I didn't want like, you know, if a girl wanted me to go over her house and have dinner with her parents, I was like, oh Jesus, they're going to think I'm fucking crazy. But I was a kickboxer. her parents, I was like, oh, Jesus, they're gonna think I'm fucking crazy.

But I was a kickboxer. I was a kid who had, I went from, when I was 15 years old, I got deeply involved in martial arts. My entire social life up until like 21, 22, was just traveling around the country fighting. And so I was feral. Like my mindset was just, I just didn't fit in.

I couldn't wear a suit jacket and pretend to be the guy. Did you ever notice? I wasn't that guy. The things that I thought were funny, other people would think were fucked up, but my fucked up friends would think were funny. And those are the ones who talked me into doing standup. But they were equally fucked up.

Did you start standup back then? In Boston in 88. In 88? Yeah. Yeah, and I went to see Kinnison in 89. I got to see him live in 89. I got to see him three times. One time when I was working.

Wow, so good. I was working at Great Woods Center for the Performing Arts, and he was performing there. Wow. And I got to see him live. I was a security guard. It was this place in Mansfield. Yeah, the whole Taekwondo team that I was a part of is that what you got jobs. Yeah, that's what I used to compete in

Oh, no kidding. Where'd you compete out of? Where was that? Okay Yeah Yeah, I fought in LA when I lived in Boston. I fought in Anaheim in the Nationals right on I Traveled all over the country competing. Right on. I traveled all over the country competing, that's all I did. And one of the guys who worked with us,

one of the guys who trained with us, got a job as a security guard. And the guy was like, hey, do you know any more guys who know how to fight? Like, we need more guys like that to work for us. They just hired a bunch of us. And so we got to see all these crazy concerts. Like, I got to see Bon Jovi, I got to

see Bill Cosby, which was kind of crazy. I saw Rodney Dangerfield. And Rodney Dangerfield was, there was this backstage area and Rodney Dangerfield was naked with a bathrobe on. And that's how he would go on stage. And the end of his career, like Rodney would go, and by the way, murdered. I mean, I was fucking crying laughing. He was probably, I don't know how old he was in 89, but he was old. And this fucking guy was just on stage with a bathrobe on naked. And a giant hog was like hanging out of his fucking pants.

And he was just hanging out smoking pot, and then he would go on stage with a bathrobe on, and just kill, because he wanted to be comfortable. How did other comedians feel about him? Oh, they loved him. They loved him. Everybody loved Rodney. Rodney was one of the most universally loved comedians,

because he helped other comedians. Like Rodney Dangerfield, he did these things, the Rodney Dangerfield specials, like Rodney and Friends. And so he would have, he introduced the world to Dice Clay, Sam Kinison, Robert Schimel, Lenny Clark, Dom Irera, like some of the greats. And they all came out of his Rodney Dangerfield and Friends specials.

They were some of the greatest specials ever. Because he would have all these guys that he thought were worth seeing. And he would put them out there to the world. And they all became superstars. I mean that's how Sam Kinison launched. He launched from Rodney. And so Bill Hicks, a lot of people launched from Rodney. And so everybody loved Rodney.

He was just loved. I know he's your buddy. And I, you know, because comedians, I used to listen, I used to have six albums and one was a bloody red vinyl. Remember the red albums? Okay, sure. Yeah, yeah. And it was sick. And I don't know where I got them. I think I got them from like a flea market or something, but they were Lenny Bruce. Oh, yeah.

And that was the beginning. He was the first. He was the first. He was the first real modern stand-up comedian. Everybody else just told jokes. Like, two guys walking over a bar. Like, that kind of shit. He was the first guy that was like, why do we do this?

And why is that? And like, what is this? Where he questioned it. Questioned authority. And people would come to see him because in the 60s, everybody was so confused as to how to think. Like, what, yeah, what are we doing? And this guy was like this.

And how do we treat each other? And then they'd literally point people out and he'd go, Eve and Kike, and there's a Mick, and people would go, what the fuck is he doing? At the most tense time, and then he'd bring it around. And that's why it reminds me of Chappelle. Because Chappelle would get so seemingly or ostensibly inappropriate, and then somehow bring it around

Yeah, and you go fucking james a master master and he's a real artist That's a guy like, you know, I talk about like people that only start thinking about money Yeah, that's not him that dude lives in fucking Springfield, Ohio And it just travels around and just does a lot of shows for no money He does a lot of shows for no money. He does a lot of shows So he just shows up and performs one time. I was in Denver and I get off stage It's first show our second show Friday night. So it's 10 o'clock show shows over I get off stage I go into the green room Dave's there. I go Dave. What are you doing here, man?

It was I thought I'd come out visit you just hops on a fucking private jet and flies to Denver because he knew I was There didn't even tell me just shows up and then I go do you want to go on stage? He goes, oh should I go fuck? Yeah, so I ran out while the people were leaving I go Tell everybody on the stairs come back Dave Chappelle's here So they all come back in and sit down again And how long does like 45 minutes and it was right around when Trump was doing, when he got caught saying, grab him by the pussy. So he had like 10 minutes of, grab him by the pussy.

Like, it was fucking genius. It was so good. Off the top of his head though? Oh no, he, I mean, I don't know exactly how Dave creates material. How designed it is. I think what Dave does is spends a lot of time thinking and listening to music and coming up with ideas And he writes some stuff down, but a lot of what he does is just performs

Constantly he's constantly on stage working these set earlier artist He's a real artist the difference between somebody who's just good at what yeah somebody who is an innate artist He's a real artist. He's a hero. He gets he's a hero of mine, too He's a good friend, but he gets these giant deals with Netflix where he makes a lot of money Which is great, but he doesn't do it for money. Yeah, he's doing it No, but what you can tell is he gets these like oh he turned down fifty million dollars I'm crazy move to Ohio or whatever the fucking story is that you want to make up, but then he comes back He makes these 20 million deal dollar deals with Netflix, but it's never in

place of His agenda. No, it's all about the art. It's all about all about this wins. This wins This is the prior why he left his show because they were twisting it of course I know it why he left his show because I've been in that position where you go, this is turning into some corporate version of what you like. You love what I do, now you can't wait to put your fingerprint on it.

Exactly. That's it. That's exactly what it was. So you can take, so you can go, you know, that was me. And he gave up 50 million when no one was giving him 50 million. And then he quit doing comedy for 10 years. And you know what he would do? He would occasionally show up in a park with like a fucking speaker and just show up

and do stand-up. Yes, he did. He did in Seattle. I know he did in Seattle, because a friend of mine was at the show. He shows up, he goes, Dave Chappelle just shows up in this fucking park and he gets a speaker with a microphone

and he just starts talking and people just gather around. Respect. He was just doing these like shows, these impromptu shows. He would show up in a bar, can I go on stage? And they would go, uh, okay. And he would just start talking. Knowing in his mind that he would eventually come back, no, that was just the present moment. I think this is what I want to do. Just being an artist, just being an artist for the pure sake of being an artist. So he had the money that he did make off Chappelle show and he decided to like live Frugally and take that money and he didn't do anything for money for like 10 fucking years He just raised his and then he started coming back and then we started coming back

I remember I'm coming around the comedy store again, and we had some conversations about it, and he just You know he just decided to start doing comedy again And then you see people getting canceled now and it's devastating to them. And yet that's what that was. He just did it himself. Right. He canceled himself. Yeah.

He canceled the greatest sketch show of all time. Of all time. Yeah. And it only did two seasons. It's still the greatest. That's not something that you see very often of somebody who just fucking can't help but beat to their own drum. But the art wins in the end.

The art wins. Well it's obviously when you see him. He's so good. He's not malicious. There are moments where you think he's malicious and again he brings it around. Well then maliciousness is just to heighten the humor. It all just like brings it in. It also accentuates like some thoughts that you might have about whatever he's talking about

But it's what everybody's thinking. Yep, it's so fucking terrified to say that's what I think even me Yeah, I'm watching it and I'm the inappropriate guy, you know And my dad goes how the fuck do you say what you say and I don't understand I go, you know I said honestly do you want to know because I'm not ultimately mean I Don't want I don't want a fucking hurt I don't want people to feel less than I do right, but I watch Chappelle even me. I'm like Wow, yeah, he watched that line he gets out there walks that line, but he dances around it

He makes it beautiful comedy. She hit it so much because without him We're all fucked and he's the way to find out if a comedian's a cunt. Like if a comedian doesn't like Chappelle, they start shitting on Chappelle like, oh okay. Then you know he's a cunt. You're a piece of shit. You're a piece of shit. You're just a garbage human. Have you ever met anybody like that? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot of these. He's not a real comedian. He's an asshole. Yeah, there's a lot of like... That's not comedy.

...activist comedians and what they are is really not talented So they've glommed on to this idea of like being like socially conscious, and that's more important than the humor itself But nobody wants to hear you preach nobody nobody thinks that your opinion is better than theirs This is what I always say like if you go on stage you have an opinion Like other people have an opinion too like if you go on stage and say you know I think Kamala Harris would be the greatest president of all time. A lot of people are like, well, I don't agree.

But you have to have a way to make it funny so that they laugh, the people that disagree with you laugh. I don't even think this guy's correct. Well, God damn, that's funny. And that's the way you can introduce an idea into someone's head that maybe would never accept that idea. It was just opinions. So if someone's on stage and they're just saying opinions, like you could you could disagree with that opinion,

it'll frustrate you and you can't talk, you don't have your... But if that guy can take that opinion and that perspective and make it funny, then you're forced to acknowledge that he has a point. Like there's something in there like I don't agree with that but fucker, god damn that was good, god damn that was good god damn that was good and that's the liberates Yes, that's the real chapelle art That's what I mean not that we'll stay on this forever But remember Eddie Murphy when he did what not the first not raw but delirious delirious. Yeah. Oh, yeah Well, he was a fucking powerhouse power to this day. That is the guy that I just wish I was

Friends I was friends with his brother Charlie yeah but I wish that guy I wish he would come back you know I know he got like some weird stuff where he got arrested with transsexuals in his car and so whatever whatever they came just too good he's too good he's too good do you ever see when he gave a speech, he got like, I think it was like one of those Mark Twain awards or something like that, and he did stand up. Like where he hasn't done stand up in forever, but he was talking about Bill Cosby having to give his awards back. And no.

Yeah. Because you know, he does an amazing Bill Cosby impression. Yeah, I remember. And so he did stand up and it was as sharp as ever. And like, God damn, if this guy came back, he would- And it was just off the cuff? It was something that- Oh, I'm sure he prepared.

No, I'm sure he prepared, but nobody really knew he was gonna do it, right? Well, they knew he was gonna give a speech, and his speech was essentially stand up. Was stand up. His acceptance speech was- Like 20 minutes or 15 minutes. Yeah, and it was fucking great.

And there was all these rumors that he was gonna start doing it again. I remember Charlie told me that Dave was thinking about doing it again, or that Eddie was thinking about doing it again, but he never did it. He never did it. I think it's just too heavy. We need comedians.

I mean, that's like the theme of this whole thing. Whether you're talking about Hunter, whether you're talking about this, it's just too bad that they self-destruct, whether it be from drugs or fame or whatever. And you know what I mean? It's hard, man. It's really hard. It's hard to maintain and then once you make it there's these weird pressures. But it breaks up the status quo of this contraction especially that we're feeling. I know that's why people move to Austin. It's like I'm fucking sick of being told to think a certain way. Well, that's why comedy and Austin works So well, yeah, because we all moved here at the same time We all moved here in 2020 like I was I was here because well Ron white moved here first and Ron white is a dear Friend of mine and he moved here before the pandemic and Ron was like, I don't want to live in LA anymore

I fucking love it here. There's no traffic. Fuck food's great. Fuck. People are nice I can travel. I fly. I'm in the center of the country. I can fly anywhere real quick. And I was like, damn, could I live in Texas? I'm like, I don't know about that. And then COVID came and right away,

like my wife was kind of interested a little bit, but then when the riots started happening in LA, then she got really scared. She got very, like it was a lot of like home invasions. It was a lot of crazy shit that was happening. Where is she from originally? She was from Colorado. Okay, so not an LA born.

No, no, no. And so she lived in LA with me for a while and we were happy. You know, we lived in Bell Canyon, which was like outside of LA. It's nice, peaceful, had a little land. But you're still in LA. Hocks and shit.

Yeah, Well for me It was okay because I had quiet where I lived and then I could drive into the Comedy Store Yeah, and I loved it But then when they shut the Comedy Store down they shut everything down and the rise and I was like, baby They're not gonna let us go back This is like these fucking cocksuckers have control now and that's what they like That's why they became politicians in the first place. They like telling people they can't work They have a grip on society and they're gonna fucking keep this grip. We got to get the fuck out of so

Did you move sight unseen? Did you move? Just did you just come? I can't find a place or did you I came and you hung out looking to see if I could deal with it We took like a few days off and we flew to Austin with some friends who are also thinking about doing it None of them wound up moving here. Couple of them moved to Dallas. But we came here and then one of the things that helped, my daughters were 10 and 12 at the time. They were real young and they were real confused

about what was going on in LA. It was spooky. You had to wear a mask everywhere and that freaks kids out. Like it's just freaky. We came to Texas, no masks. You go to restaurants and we had this great real estate lady and this great, she's a good friend now and she took us to see, we wanted to see this house and she took us on a ride on a boat. She had a friend to take

us on the lake. We go on the lake, people are playing Leonard Skinner, they're jumping in the water, they're laughing and singing and in LA, everybody's thinking like the world's going to end. There's demons in the air. No, man. I was in New Mexico and I was out on a 100,000-acre ranch. Right? And we were doing Outer Range. We were doing the first season of our show and we were tested every morning. And when I was out in the middle of nowhere, I mean with like good 15-mile-an-hour winds,

you'd have somebody come up if I put my mask down to talk, you'd have somebody go, yeah, yeah, and I'd be like, there's no, we're in the middle of nowhere. Also, it doesn't even work. It doesn't work. It's stupid. The mask, I'm not even saying that I have a certain belief system or anything, but in that moment. Yeah, provable that they don't work. Provable. Yeah. And people lost their fucking minds.

Lost their minds. And it was a stress test. And so we came out here, I bought a house, like quick. And I was here. Is it still the same house you have now? Yep. Really? That's cool.

Yeah. We looked at the house in May, I was living in it in August. And we were here. And then my kids started going to school out here. They loved it. I loved it right away. We were performing. And then we were doing shows inside

where everybody was like, this is crazy. You guys are doing shows indoors? Because Texas didn't give a fuck. They're like two shows. Like a couple months after COVID, they're like, eh, open it up. So what are the numbers of people who got COVID? I've never had COVID. You never got it at all? all. That's crazy. I never got it. I don't

know if that's a blood type. I don't know. What is that? Maybe you're healthy. Maybe I have it right now. I have a cold right now. Maybe I have it. The new COVID is a joke. It's like, I, we used to test every day. We still like everybody that came in. Cause I wanted to be compliant. I wanted people to be able to save people are flying out here to do podcasts. I wanted to make sure they're not a dick. And so we tested everybody before every show. And one time I came in and I had the sniffles. And I was like, maybe it's COVID.

Maybe it's COVID. And the nurse was like, actually, you have COVID. I was like, no way. I'm like, this is the new COVID? But I had it once and like famously got in trouble for saying that I didn't get vaccinated, but I got healthy. And it was the CNN attacks and all that shit. And then um, the second time I got COVID it was literally sniffles

And it was gone in like a day or two. So were the numbers different in Texas than anywhere else? I don't know I'm curious. I mean the numbers are all like the the real people that got sick are the people with comorbidities. That was the real issue It would it expose it's not that it didn't exist It did because I have a brother in law who was in New Orleans in the epicenter of it and it was the beginning of his residency and all that. And he was like, Oh bro. Oh, it fucking exists. It was fucking gnarly. Yeah. If you're really unhealthy, COVID fucked you up. If you're really fat in particular, there was something about the way it reacted. African Americans too. He said that's a vitamin D thing. That's a vitamin

D. Yeah. Well, you know, African Americans, the reason why they're so dark, the melanin is to protect them from the sun and melanin in white people, the reason why they're so pale is because it acts as like a fucking solar panel for vitamin D. Right, so the melanin actually protects them from the sun's damage and but it also makes it more difficult for them to get vitamin D. So my friend did his residency in New York, and he said during the wintertime, we would do blood panels on people,

and they would have undetectable levels of vitamin D. And this is the reason why people get sick in the winter. You're covering up, you're indoors most of the time, you're not getting any vitamin D, you're not getting any sun. If you're not supplementing, and not just with vitamin D, by the way, you have to mix vitamin D with K2 and magnesium.

That's the most effective way for your body to process it. If you're not doing that, your immune system is shit. It's not that you're giving, you're not a living Petri dish and you're giving each other the thing because you would do that in the summer too, but the minute you go outside and you get that of vitamin D and you get that sun, it's burning it away. Yeah, well you're out in the sun, you're healthier.

You're supposed to be outside. We're not designed to be locked up in fucking cubicles and fluorescent lights all day. It's not normal. So it's not healthy. And if you don't do something to mitigate that, to counteract that, your metabolic health is gonna suffer. If you're not fit, if you're not healthy,

if you're overweight, if you're not eating well, if you're not taking vitamins, all those things are a huge factor that was completely ignored. And the narrative was like, no, you need this novel injection that we haven't tested on anybody. We're going to fucking shoot it in every baby, every kid, every pregnant woman. Did you ever take one? No, I almost did. I didn't think it was a bad thing. Look, this whole pandemic is through education and talking to doctors and also through my experiences, it completely changed my concept

and my thought about the medical system. When the vaccine was first available, I was more than willing to get it. In fact, the UFC allocated like 150 vaccines for other employees. And we were doing these COVID shows where there was no audience. So we would do it at the Apex in Vegas where the UFC has their own small arena. And we'd have the fights there and you go and get tested. I would not get tested in Austin. I'd fly to Vegas and then they test me again

and you weren't supposed to go anywhere. You just stayed in your hotel and then you showed up and did the fights. And then they got the allocations to the vaccine and I called up the doctor and I said, Hey, I'm here for the fights. Can I get vaccinated? They said, Sure, come on in. And then when I got there, I called the doctor and said, actually, you have to go to the clinic. We have to do it at the clinic. Can you go on Monday? And I said, I can't. I have to go back to Austin, but I'll be back in two weeks for the next fights

and we'll do it then." And he said, great. In that two weeks, they pulled the vaccine because people were getting blood clots. And then also during that two weeks, two people that I knew had strokes. Like one guy was in his 50s and one guy was in his 40s. Immediately following the vaccination? Within days of the vaccine. Within days.

Got strokes. And I had a bunch of friends that had complications. One friend who has a pacemaker. I have a second friend now that has a pacemaker. And there was all these things that just kept happening. A pacemaker that they'll have for the rest of their lives? I don't know. It depends on whether or not your heart heals, like how bad the damage is, what it was. But his heart would stop, it would stop beating for like nine seconds at a time.

Wow. And he would just faint and he was falling down. you know dr. Drew's talked about this about he believes that's what happened to a lot of people that got boosted a lot of people like after the booster like there's something that would happen where your heart would just stop beating for a while and you'd black out and it would start up again and it because it wasn't proven it wasn't a proven thing. But then again how many of them are proven because right let's what you said what seventy two seventy three shots. Yeah well that's a different kind of vaccine.

No but I understand that but they're still vaccines. Yes. Why so much more now is there that much more. No it's money. I think it's money. I mean I'm not an anti vaccine person, but like I subscribe to Robert F Kennedy's perspective, like they should all be tested. They should be safety tested and they're not, you know, it comes down to this thing. Like we were talking about working out, it comes down to this thing where you go,

listen, the medical community I can use for certain things, the holistic community I can use for certain things. Why do I have to deny one just to be full in on the other? Right, exactly. Well, it's just a narrative that they put out there that medicine and pharmaceutical drugs are the most important thing and everything else is bullshit. Everybody should take Oxycontin. Everybody should be on at least 10 Oxycontin a day. Yeah, help you feel better. You'll feel better.

Just like, oh, I feel better. Yeah, you don't have to do anything. You don't have to do anything. It's helping you. You don't have to feel bad about it. So when we came here, that was the thing, was like everybody who came here was kind of like, fuck this. And then there were so many of us that Ron talked me into opening up a comedy club. I remember Ron- You opened your own.

Yeah. Ron went on stage, like for the first time in like months, like I think it was eight months and he grabbed me by the shoulders like right after God I mean he fucking crushed he goes on stages this giant standing ovation he crushes and comes off stage he grabs me by my shoulders whatever the fuck we have to do we're gonna keep doing this he goes you got to open up a club I go okay I'm gonna open up a club yes sir and then I just started looking at club spots. How often do you do it? Almost, I mean, every week. Every week. I went on last night three times. I went on, they did three sets last night. Wow. Yeah. That's constantly working. Yeah. Do you know Robert Rodriguez? The director? Yeah.

No, I don't know him personally. That's, that surprises me. Yeah. That's who I'm doing. I'm at the Paramount Theater tonight. I love that guy. Yeah, I love him of him though. That surprises me, yeah. That's who I'm doing. I'm at the Paramount Theater tonight. I love that guy. Yeah, I love him. I've known him for 30 years. Oh, I'd love to meet him. Yeah. But no, I love his work though.

Yeah, super good guy. Yeah. And he plays at Antons a lot. Oh yeah, Antons. Yeah. Antons. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which is still there, right?

That's Gary Clark Jr.'s place. Is it? Yeah, that's my friend Gary. I didn't know it. So my wife knows Gary's wife really well. Oh, my wife knows Gary's wife really well. Oh, shit, dude. I met somebody on the plane who sat next to me, so I flew from New York. They sent a picture to my wife.

No! Yes! Yes! Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Bentley? I don't know the guy's name. I don't know the guy. No, no, no, no, no, no. The guy that I met on the plane today he said what are you here doing I said oh

I'm gonna see Brogan this afternoon I'm doing Paramount Theatre tonight and he said oh that's so funny and he didn't talk to me the whole flight and he said my son Bentley went out with Rosie yes that's very year yes that's what it is so he sent a photograph to my wife yeah cuz I took a photograph yeah so I saw today right when I was leaving my wife shows in the photograph and funny. It's crazy. That's crazy Small world my really yeah super super small world. Yeah, but yeah, so yeah Gary's wife and my wife are good friends Yeah, so never met Gary. I love him. He's the best I mean, that's another artist true. That's an artist. I mean he's an artist another true artist I was just with him. I did his video

I was asked to do a lot of videos and I've never done a video because I've never wanted to do a video The idea of doing video seems weird to me. You're like, you know singing somebody else's song or something But Chris Stapleton who's been a long for a long time. So we were in Marfa together. Has he? Yeah. I love that guy. One of the greatest fucking guys. He and Morgan, one of the greatest people. So yeah, we were together over the weekend in Marfa, Texas. Oh, that's fucking cool.

Yeah, it was awesome. Yeah. There's, I mean, Gary's another guy that I knew back in LA. I met Gary at the comedy store. Doesn't he still live in LA? No, he lives here. Oh, he does? Full time.

Yep, and that's the same thing. Like when I talked to Gary about it, I go, why'd you move to Texas? And this was back when I was still live in LA? No, he lives here. Oh, he does. Yeah time Yep And that's the same thing like when I talked to Gary about I go why'd you move to? Texas and this was back when I was still living in LA because man fuck that right fuck that place fuck everything about that place I don't like I told you we just moved out if we haven't moved to Austin. I've spent a lot of time here I love it here. My mom's from Corpus Christi. I've spent a lot of time in Texas. I'm gonna eat water burger while I'm here. And, but I, you know, we moved to Santa Barbara recently and it's one of those things. It's just like, there's the thing about LA when you don't need, because you can do

so many things remotely, and you go, why am I here? Right, right, why am I here? Like I embrace this staunch thing of I'm a Californian and I loved going to New York and seeing how Proud people were in New York and I'd go back to California and I'd say I want to be the one proud person that's in California There was proud people in LA for a while there were we were all proud that we were LA comics Yeah, there were LA comics were like a different thing than New York comics, right? Because New York comics were all like for themselves. They're all kind of shitty and backstabbing and at the Comedy Store

We had a real community Where there was like and that's the best thing and what you've done is recreate it like even when I talk about a chopper community That's what it is. It's a community that you can rely on yes regardless of belief system or anything like that You go, but that guy has my back. Yes, that guy will walk through fire for me Yes, that guy wants me to do well. That's your people. That's my people Yeah, and that's the same thing with all my people moved out here. They moved out here with me So we had like 16 top shelf comedians move out here in the first two years that many There's so many clubs out here. There's five clubs on the street where my clubs are. That's crazy I bought the old Ritz Theater.

Yeah. So that's the comedy mothership now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And down the street, there's a Sunset Club that my friend Brian owns, and that's a club that's like five doors down from me. So all these are new clubs that's happened in the last four years. The Vulcan was already there. That was the club that we started working at when we came here.

That's down the street from me. That's only like a block away. And then there's the Creek in the Cave, another comedy club that's only like two blocks away. And then there's the creek in the cave another comedy club That's only like two blocks away. There's a bunch of them just on this one street What if I move here and open a club and just do monologues? Do you think people will come sure different? I think it's good. Ladies and gentlemen, this one's from Sicario. If it's good people would go they might Look man, it's you fucking really have a weird artsy. This is the weird artsy city, which I love. It's a great artsy city.

It is. It is. There's a lot of fake artists or just cunts. I know, but there is everywhere. Yeah, there's a lot of posers. Yeah. But that's all people that just like the idea of them being the one who decides what's real and what's not real.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just goofs. You're always going to have that. There's a lot of that that they hated us when we came here. But really what they didn't like is that you couldn't just fuck around anymore. The real killers were here now. The real top shelf, like national headliners,

guys like Tom Segura and Tim Dillon and these animals moved into town. So this is like a new hub. It's the hub of the world for comedy. The Comedy Mothership is the hub of comedy in the world. That's wild. Yeah, and it just comedy in the world. That's wild. Yeah, and it just opened two years ago. That's cool.

It's packed every night. It's awesome. Like Dave came down like opening week. It was incredible and no one knew he was there. So I did a set and then after I did a set, I introduced him and everybody just went fucking ape shit. And we were like, it's up. Like the club's rolling now. Now it's up like the clubs rolling now

now it's really happening and then all these people were coming in from all over the country and a bunch of people moved here and there's people moving here constantly Shane Gillis moved here and all these guys moved here so it's still happening oh yeah it's still growing migrating and we've talked we're talking about opening up another club because it's we're so packed every night and we have so many comics We almost have too many comics and not enough room has a place grown a lot in the last four years I mean other than people yet, but you see a gentrification of it or just like things that you got No, you see a lot of tech bros have moved here because you know Google moved here and Facebook and remember when Jesse James moved here

Which was a while ago. He moved here a long time long time ago Yeah, I remember when he moved from Long Beach. Yeah, and he called me and he was like, it's fucking great. It's fucking great It's better. Yeah, I just never will live in a place that has traffic ever again I'll never live in a big city Austin's like a million people. There's a million on the outside and a million in the city It's nothing. It's easy. It's easy to get around people are friendly in a million in the city. It's nothing. It's easy. It's easy to get around. People are friendly. They're just like real people. There's no one here that's like connected to that machine that forced compliance. Why do you think that feeds into your art? Like to me, being in LA, when everybody's

talking about what's your status right now? The thing about here is all people care about is are you killing? Are you going on stage What's your status right now? Eugh. Eugh. Eugh. Eugh. What's your status? The thing about you is, all people care about is, are you killing? Are you going on stage and fucking killing? Are you doing your best work? Are you doing it, period?

Yeah, are you doing it. Are you doing your best work? Like, do you care? Yes, do you really care? Do you give a shit? Are you really working on it? Are you really? Are you just another affectation?

And if you're at that club, you have to be working on it, because there's too many people that are Working on it. There's too many kill. You can't just be lazy. Yeah, you won't survive. There's too many killers I want to go to this club anytime go tonight. Cool. You want to come tonight? Well, I got this thing What's once your thing? What time is it? I don't know eight seven. We have a seven o'clock show in a ten o'clock show Really? Yeah, come after come hang out. Jelly Roll there last night really was he really yeah, yeah, yeah That's cool jelly rolls the man. He's here all the time. He's always hanging out here. Do you have my book? I do not you don't know I do not know what's out to me

They did it probably went to a publicist or someone I was gonna bring a book for you. I'll buy it Josh Bowen under the truck Hi, I'm under the truck. What do you think? Is that where you were drunk, passed out? That's where my mom's boyfriend was drunk and passed out. But it has this, to me, I chose it because it has a double entendre that when you're under a truck, you're either fixing it or getting run over by it. Hence my life. I'm either getting run over by it or fixing it.

How did you sort it out? Because you're so together now. Am I? Yeah, I think you are. Thank you. You're fun. Thanks man. Fun people are together. If you can be fun, you're together. I think I'm at that place. I found a place that you have always been at that I didn't have. I had the opposite where you go, no, I didn't do cocaine because, and forget the drugs, it's the mentality. I didn't do cocaine because and forget the drugs it's the mentality I didn't do cocaine because it would kill me and I would go oh that stuff will kill you yeah let's let's just walk that line I always wanted to walk that line and I had a mother that walked that line the book is very mother heavy very very mother heavy and it would wasn't intended to be it just turned out that be my that's why I wanted to fuck I wish I had a book. No worries. I wanted to read you a

Section of the LSD 13 year old LSD thing because it's fun. Yeah, it's juicy Yeah, you like juicy stuff. I do and I want to read you juicy stuff 13 LSD is so wild That's such a crazy mind-blowing experience for a 13 year old to have yeah Can you imagine cuz you look at I mean I, I had kids when I had my first kid, I was 20 years old, and I was looking at 14 years in prison. Oh my God. Yeah. So- Jesus Christ.

So, that's why I missed my shot out there. I was surprised. It's Johnny Cash. We'll get it. There's Brolin. We're going to order it. Find Josh Brolin's. Oh, yeah. See if it's in there. I think surprised. It's Johnny Cash. There's Brolin. Find Josh Brolin's. Oh yeah, see if it's in there. I think there's a couple. Get a big mental print of it. Not that I'm proud of it. Well, it's part of your life and it's why you're you today because you've gone through shitty experiences. Yeah, but I don't know if they're shitty. That's what I haven't decided whether they're shitty or whether they're necessary for this person to get to this place

And not everybody gets to that place. So we're talking about all these people like Hunter S Thompson Hunter S Thompson is my mother man Just did she wasn't a good writer But everything that you the song right that was my mom my mom had a night loaded nine millimeter at her bedside table all the time she was part of the, what was the scam that went on in the 80s? The pyramid scam. Oh. Remember that?

She was one of the top five winners of the pyramid scam. Oh boy. She could talk anybody into anything. So she would come home literally, man, with bags, with grocery bags full of cash. Wow. And she'd dump it out and she'd say count Jesus I would sit there and Wow you know what I mean and she put them and I finally found I think she had hidden some in her dresser and that there was like a loose

board that she right took away and put money I found it and bought some drums when my grandmother died we found stuff like that in her house because my grandmother went through the depression. Oh yeah. And so everybody they all like stockpiled money so she had coffee cans filled with money that she had like tucked away in like different areas of the house that we found after she died. Right, right. It's kind of great. Yeah. The mentality of like. Yeah well the mentality you grow up or you literally might starve to death. There's no food. And you become there's no way that can't affect you and that's the whole point no way there's no way that somebody can have that mentality of every cent means something right and we have to hide it unless he needs somebody

else takes it or whatever with my mother it was always looking for the most vivid experience and I don't know why that was her parents weren't like that it's just how she was how she was and then you either have my brother I don't know why that was. Her parents weren't like that. It's just how she was. And then you either have my brother. I don't know if you have siblings or not, but my brother dealt with it totally different. My brother imploded. So he lives his life as simply as you can possibly live it. Whereas me, it was my reaction was... The other way. Yeah. Yeah. So how now and why? I don't know. I don't know. Hmm. 45 years old. I think feels like a good age to go. Okay, do I want to? Don't want to go Nick Nolte or do I want to go? Right, right, right, right. And I can do that easy. You know, Nick used to date

Vicki Lewis, who was on news radio with me. Yeah, yeah, way. I didn't know that. I remember Vicki well. Super talented. Super talented. Yeah, could sing, could act. She was a firebrand. And Nick, we used to hang around the set and it was always so weird to me to be talking to Nick Nolte. It was so strange.

Yeah. I remember one time I went to Fry's Electronics because I was going to buy some... I used to make my Electronics because I was going to buy some computers. I used to make my own computers. Yeah. Because I was really into computer games. So I'd build my own computers. And so I'm there looking at motherships,

and I see this fucking old guy with his glasses on. And I go, Nick goes, oh, hey, Joe. How are you, man? Do you know anything about these things? And I was talking to him about like computer stuff But I just couldn't believe he knows my name. He remembered me He saved my life man. He saved my life at 25. I was bro. There's a terrible movie called warrior It's terrible movie terrible movie. You mean the UFC movie with Tom Hardy and

But he's fucking incredible in it. He's amazing his one scene this one scene when he breaks down, you know, he's the dad. It's so fucking good. It's so good. That one scene is worth sitting through the entire preposterous movie. Yeah. Why do you hate that movie so much? Because it's fake. You can't have, you can't fight like two days in a row.

Wasn't the Tyson-Jake Jake fight wasn't that amazing? Yeah it's amazing they got paid so much money for that. 25 million and 40 million? I think 20 and 40 yeah I think that's what I'd heard you know which I'm happy Mike got the money and I'm happy that he didn't get hurt. That was my fear that it was gonna be a real fight and he was gonna get hurt. You've known him for a long time. I've known him for a long time. I love that dude. Me too. And he was a like larger than life figure in my childhood. Truly. And when I was a kid, when he was the champ, it was like,

people don't understand what a champ he was. Like he was a, he wasn't just the heavyweight champion of the world. He was an executioner. Like you, every fight was just a matter of how long was it going to last? Which fight it was that I went to go see a couple of fights and I actually went to go see Julio Cesar Chavez fight. And that's when I met Tyson in the green room and I met at the same time Muhammad Ali in the green room. Oh wow. That was a moment. Wow. As a boxing fan, that was a real moment. But I remember and I don't know who it was and I think it was a 90 second fight and I went to go see this fight and Tyson was fighting and this guy was doing this stuff before and he had this cut.

He had built himself into confidence and Mike came out afterwards. He was the first one obviously and Mike came out afterwards and I watched his face. I didn't watch Mike. You would normally watch Mike because he's so charismatic and he's coming he's gonna do and I watched the guy's face and I watched that confidence bleed from his face yeah instantaneously yeah he had absolutely lost the fight long before Mike had ever gotten in the ring yeah I maintained that in the time where he was champion like the two or three years where he was at his best, he was the greatest fighter of all time.

Of all time. Of all time. I don't think anybody- That's why it was so interesting to me as I was watching it and I'm very verbal when it comes to that shit. Come on, what the fuck? You know what I mean?

And he was, he's still quick. Oh yeah. He's still quick. He's still very quick. And he would do these things. But you know, Mike had, like, he was walking with a cane just like a year and a half ago. Yeah, but he was really out of shape. He's still quick. Oh yeah. He's still quick. He's still very quick. And he would do these things. But you know, Mike had, like, he was walking with a cane just like a year and a half ago. Yeah, but he was really out of shape.

He had bad sciatica. Bad sciatica. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, real bad. It wasn't that long ago that he was, you know, I mean, when I first met him he was very, very heavy. He was not working out at all. And I asked him, how come you don't work out?

He goes, I don't want to ignite my ego. That's what he said. He goes, I don't want to ignite my ego. That's what he said. He goes, I don't want to ignite the gods of war. The gods of war. And then the second time he came in was when he was preparing for the Roy Jones Jr. fight. Came in here? Yeah. And he was a totally different human being.

He was fucking jacked and in shape and he looked super intense. And he was just like ready to go. And it was terrifying. It was like, and Jamie- Wait, when was this just like ready to go, and it was terrifying. It was like, and Jamie... Wait, when was this? A few years ago, four years ago? Four years ago? And so when he came in the second time,

I was like, this is, Jamie said it afterwards, he's like, this is a totally different human being than the first time we saw him. He was one of the first guys, like I said, with Nick Nolte, he was like, is that really Nick Nolte? This is crazy. Can't believe he's right there.

Mike Tyson is one of the first people that I met, though. I can't believe he's really here. Because he was so iconic. He had to be alive and be a kid during the time where he was the champion to understand what he was. Because there was, after Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes was a great fighter, but no one liked him because he beat up Muhammad Ali

So people always just wanted him. Is that the only reason there was there's just a certain air of somebody and they come along once Yes, while yes, but Larry Holmes never got his due. Yeah, he was an amazing fighter amazing fighter But but when he retired then there was just like a series of boring champions Like no one cared about the heavyweight division at all. No one cared. And then the cover of Sports Illustrated, I have it framed in my office at home, it said Kid Dynamite on it.

And he was 19 years old. And I was like, who is this guy? And then I started watching him fight. And then he was fighting on like ABC, Wired World of Sports. And you're like, Jesus Christ. Do you find yourself going back and watching highlights just to do it? Oh, yeah.

I watch Tyson fights all the time. Yeah. Yeah. I just watched this fight with Frank Bruno just a couple of days ago. Frank Bruno. Oh my God. Tyson was something just, I just don't think you can maintain that. You can only do that for a few years.

The only fights that never worked out were like, do you remember the fight with him and Bone Crusher Smith? Oh yeah. Yeah. Not a great fight. No, it wasn't the best fight. Because Bone Crusher Smith? Oh yeah, yeah. Not a great fight. No, wasn't the best fight. Because Bone Crusher Smith was not a great fighter. Well he was a good fighter. He was just a tough guy.

But you know, brutal knockout puncher. It just wasn't at Mike's level. Mike was at a level that no one was at. It was just, it was an insane combination of discipline, talent, incredible coaching, psychology. You know, when he was 13 years old, he was adopted by a guy, Cus DeMoto, who was a hypnotist. Cus used to hypnotize him. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, he hypnotized him when he was 13.

And he... Into being the greatest fighter? Into being the greatest fighter. Wow. And he told him, you don't exist, exist only the task exists and the task was just Yeah, yeah, I've never heard him say that yeah say that to other people. Oh, yeah, he said it publicly I've never thought it. Yeah, he talked about me. I've never heard it the hypnosis They he started doing it when he was 13 years old. So what's the parallel between and this is the last thing

I'll interview you about what's the what's the thing between Tyson and John Jones? Interview you about what's the what's the thing between Tyson and John Jones? Who I met once and I looked at him when I met him on a plane and he didn't give me really the time of day But I was like, I'm a huge fan and I don't say that often to a lot of people He probably gets had all day long. I'm sure he does. Yeah, it's no doubt Special fighter it's conquerors. That's what it is. Like they're both conquerors like I had this thing that I put up on my Instagram the other day that somebody made. It was me talking about trying to explain why John exists, that there's people that are just different, they're wired different, and they are uncommon amongst uncommon men.

They rise to the top of the top and they just dominate. They just dominate. And that's John he's just the greatest of all time he's 37 years old and he's still the greatest I mean watching that fight watching watching you know Tyson or Jake Paul or whatever Jake Paul I wonder anyone to say Tyson and then going the next day and watching that fight watching those fights It wasn't the only fight. The one before was what was his name? The fight before John Jones. Oh, Charles Olivera and Michael Chandler.

Olivera. Yeah, incredible fight. Incredible fight. Amazing fight. Yeah. John is a special dude. When he's gone, we're all going to miss him. It's a different kind of guy. I mean, he's been at the top for 14 fucking years. He won the title of the youngest guy to ever win UFC title 23 23 and Mike was the youngest heavyweight champion 20 which is really crazy crazy

But when John Jones won that title at 23, it's just been Destruction of everyone ever since every never ducked anybody fought all the best destroyed everybody Every never ducked anybody fought all the best destroyed everybody has dominated his division went up to heavyweight dominates it So why does somebody like that self-destruct? Is that a self-destruction wild motherfucker? That's how you get to be that good Now what we're talking about the whole time is we're talking like whether it's Hunter Thompson and this and how you walk that line Mike Tyson spending whatever three hundred fifty four hundred million dollars Wild but that's also what makes you so good, that wildness. John Jones, when he fought Mauricio Shogun, who for the light heavyweight title when he was 23 years old, he opens up the fight with a

flying knee. Nobody does that. You're fighting a legend. Shogun at that time, when he was the light heavyweight champion, he was a legend. And just a legend from the UFC but a legend from Pride. Pride was this gigantic organization in Japan that Shogun really became famous. So he was like a mythical creature almost in MMA circles. That was Shogun Hua. He was a beast. Conor McGregor and John Jones. John's in a different category.

It's a different thing. Yeah, Connor self-destructed, you know, in a lot of ways because of money, you know. I mean, he took that fight with Floyd Mayweather, he made a ton of money off that, and then took a long time before he came back to MMA, and it's just not been the same guy since. And I think that's just, It's money. It's a lot of partying, but it's the same kind of thing It's just a while, but in his prime when when Connor was in his prime. He was fucking amazing He was a fucking ass, but it's that thing that through line of not being able to let go It's like what you were talking about Chappelle Chappelle leaves for ten years But then he goes to the park and he does a thing. There's a thing that's insatiable, that warrior mentality.

Yeah, but there's a difference because physically you can only fight for so long. Yeah, that's true. Comedy, you get better every year. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you keep doing comedy. Dave's better now than he was a year ago. He'd be better two years from now than he is now. You can still be Rodney Dangerfield eventually. Right. Right. Rodney Dangerfield, when I saw him, he was probably seven years old and he was murdering in his fucking bathrobe naked it with this shlong hanging out. Yeah He was still amazing because it's not a physical thing

You don't have like your body can only compete at the highest level Which is one of the things that's so extraordinary about John. Yeah, he's 37 He still competes the highest level it blew my mind the other night. Well, it was exciting You know, it was nice to be excited about something. Steve A's past is prime, unfortunately, and he's got a lot of wear on the tires. And it was kind of rough watching him get beat up like that.

But that's the game they play. That's the sport. Yeah, and what's great about UFC that I never thought would last in the beginning, the great thing is anything can happen at any time. Yeah, Frank Fertitta and Lorenzo Fertitta always said that every fight, every UFC, we sell holy shit moments. That's what he said. Like there's moments in the fight where

you're like, holy shit. They look around at each other and everybody like- Dude, nobody does it better than you. When you do this, you go back in your thing, you go, oh, your eyes are this big. We always did that, but then they started putting cameras on us. Right. And I don't know why, when they started doing that. You and Cormier? Yeah. We always did that, but then they started putting cameras on us. And I don't know why, when they started doing that. We always did that. Every time something would happen, we would throw our... It's organic. It's like, you can't help it.

That's what I'm doing at home. Holy fuck. Holy shit. Yeah, holy shit. Holy shit. Yeah. There's moments where you just like, you can't believe it's really happening. That's the sport.

The sport is, it's the craziest sport. It's the highest consequences of any sport. It's just, it's so raw and dangerous and you can't look away. It's so crazy. And when someone can dominate it, like John Jones or George St. Pierre or Mighty Mouse or any of the greats.

George St. Pierre, another great one. Greats. When they can do that, it's like that's a different kind of human being. I mean, to be the best of the best people the best people in the world are fighting and then he's the best of the Best people yeah, and when George was in his prime It was that same sort of thing you would see him stand there like this intense look in his eyes Just couldn't wait to get his fucking hands on that guy like damn It's you I feel very, very, very, very fortunate

that I've been able to witness personally so many of those moments. And be there to watch greatness so many times. I think it's great that you've continued. It's surprising to me. I love it. I know you do, and that's why you continue to do it. I did the first 13 of them for free.

First 13 ever? Yeah, the first thing I did, no, there was already, it was like UFC 37. Oh, oh, when you got into it. I started working at UFC 12. I did, UFC 12 was the first event that I did in 1997. I was the post-fight interview guy. And so I did that for a couple of years,

but it was banned from cable. It was basically like- That's why I said it was going, it kinda went like this and then it was going down. Boxing did it to them. Boxing in cahoots with Budweiser, which is funny because now Bud White sponsors the UFC. But they all wanted the MMA thing to go away because it was so exciting and crazy. They thought of it as a threat.

And they essentially banished it. It also just had this unsavory look to it. You're fighting in a cage. Back in those days, it was bare knuckle. Bare knuckle. And then- It was bloody. Yeah, it was just crazy.

It was like, they would call it human cock fighting, which I always found disgusting. But me, as a martial artist, the question was always, what would happen if you got a judo guy and he fought a wrestler? What would happen if you got a boxer and he fought a karate guy? And the UFC is like, let's find out. You know, so Horry and Gracie came up with this concept. That's what I was gonna say. Gracie was one of the first judo versus jiu jitsu, right?

Well, Hoyce, you know, and Hoyce was the first champion of the UFC, and he was the first guy to introduce that technique is more important than everything. Technique is more important than being big, more important than being strong. Because Hoist was 175 pounds, he was very slight and long and just a Jiu-Jitsu wizard. And he would get guys on the ground and strangle the fuck out of them. We were like, what happened? This is crazy.

Another holy shit moment. You see the big jack guy, you see the big jack guy's tapping, you're like, what? What happened? And Hoist just opened up the world to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and it made Brazilian Jiu Jitsu the most popular martial art on earth. His appearances in the UFC changed the entire course of martial arts, his family, the Gracie family,

particularly his father Elio, his brother Hickson, his brother Hoyler, and Horean of course, because he created the UFC, they changed martial arts forever. That like more development and evolution of martial arts has taken place over the last 30 years than over the last 30,000 years. Yeah, like really, that's accurate.

Like fighting is different. People really understand what works and what doesn't work now. And watching him was balletic. It was like a ballet. Yes. It was art. It was art. It wasn't just. It's real martial arts.

No. It wasn't that. His dad told him, don't hurt these people. Don't hurt them. You don't have to hurt them. Show them the art. Just submit them. Show them the art, yeah. So like, hoist when he got on top of people,

he wasn't like elbowing them, the eyeballs. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. He was just strangling folks. Just arm barring folks. Making them tap, making them quit. That's wild. And he did it to everybody. And they were all folks, just arm bar folks, making them tap, making them quit. And he did it to everybody. And they were all like, what the fuck just happened? And then everybody had to learn jujitsu. It changed martial arts forever. Do your kids do jujitsu?

Yeah, my kids have done it. Yeah. Have done it. Yeah, they don't do it anymore. They do other stuff. I don't push them. Whatever they're in. If they wanted to do it tomorrow, they said, I'm thinking about doing some kickboxing. Let's go where you want to go? But I don't believe in, everybody's different. I don't want them to follow my footsteps or anything stupid like that.

I want you to be your own human being. What are you interested in? They're both interested in different things. My youngest is an artist. My other one is a phenomenal athlete. It's like, I think that you should do what you want to do. And if you want to do that, I'll bring you. I'll show you. I'll teach you. I'll help you. But if you don't want to do that I don't want to push you. Let me be a good parent and

celebrate what my kid is not what I want. There's so many different kinds of things you could be interested in life and everyone has a different psychology so everyone has different things they gravitate towards. It's just like what is the thing? Is it music? Is it art? Is it your writing? What do you like to do? Find that thing, chase it down. How many kids do you have? I have three. I have a grown, she's 28, and I have a 16 and a 14. Yeah. I feel like you've got to do what compels you, what drives you. And part of it as a parent is like, there's so many stories of parents particularly with like talented athletes that were too hard on the kid and put

too much discipline on the kid and the kids burned out yeah I've seen so many cases of that you know with these sideline parents. That Russian mentality or that Asian mentality. Not here but there. You know what Hoist Gracie's dad used to do if he lost a competition He would buy him a present because what was the psychology because they're always gonna want to win Meaning the effort he bought the effort he bought the present for the effort work. It doesn't matter Like here you have a toy. Here's a here's a gift. Here's a thing. Like it's like this is just growth It's just just development Hoyst's dad Elio felt like you live the same life over and over and over again until you get it right

He subscribed to that like ancient Eastern philosophy of reincarnation. Yeah, he really believed you Over and over and I until you get it right. And so his philosophy on ways kids- Just do 1% better a day. Just do 1%. Just give you, it's not about going from here to here. It's not living at 100% all the time. It's the process.

It's the process. It's the process, the constant process of growth. And through that constant process, I mean, what they did was even more crazy because Elio, along with Carlos Gracie, they revolutionized a martial art. Jiu-Jitsu was brought over by these judokas from Japan, Maeda and Kimura, who came over to America, or came over to Brazil, rather, and trained with the Gracies. And then they took those techniques and made them applicable to smaller people. Made them applicable to like, because Ellya was only 145 pounds.

But he would have these no rules fights in Brazil. These fucking huge fights that would go for like an hour and a half. Wow. Yeah. And he would just beat these guys with technique. So they developed leverage and they figured out a way to highlight the submissions and make things super technical and they would analyze moves and break them down and it became the philosophy of the entire family.

That one family created more fucking assassins than any other family in the history of martial arts. And yet they're the nicest people. The nicest people. Yeah. Yeah, I had hoisted here a couple months ago. He was awesome. He's so fun.

Sessy? You know Sessy? No. She's a girl. She's with Laird a lot. She's with Laird's place a lot. I mean they have a clan bro. It's a clan but it's a close clan. Yes. And it's a it's a friendly familial clan. Yep. Yeah they're very nice people. But that's the thing about Jiu-Jitsu. It's like you get out all your aggression in the gym and it kills your ego. And you can go be kind. You just be a

nice person. Jiu-Jitsu people are some of the nicest people I've ever met. Me too. They're super friendly and warm and normal people. They just are obsessed with this one thing. And through that thing, it's like a vehicle for developing your human potential because it's so difficult. And when you do a difficult thing, it makes the rest of life a lot easier because there's no way whatever you're experiencing during the day is gonna be as difficult as someone on your back trying to strangle the

blood out of your brain like literally try to fucking choke the blood out of your head like there's there's no way there's no way life could be harder but that's the thing is the wildness you have to have something to be a champion to be a champion or to be a good person I think you have wildness which we, which we've talked about throughout this whole thing. If you don't have wildness, you're going to be boring. Which if you bring it back, honestly, because I have to bring it back to the book, that's what the book is about. Wildness unmitigated. Right. But you eventually figured out a way to get a grip on it. That eventually turns that on you. No, but most people, it turns around and it bites you in the ass. It's a sad ending.

I think those sad endings are a valuable lesson for the other people. Power of example. Yeah. You learn from a lot of... one of the reasons why I never did coke is when I was in high school, my friend's cousin became a coke head. He was a coke dealer and became a coke head. And him and his girlfriend would just do coke and hide. They were just like, they had an attic apartment. They were in this fucking apartment and just like doing coke and like sound coke and watching TV. And he like swithered away. He lost all this weight. Like he got bit by a vampire. And I remember thinking, Jesus Christ, stay the fuck away from coke. Why would you want to do that? What would be attractive about that? Nothing.

I guess it's the, I mean, you've done it. I haven't done it. I guess it's the euphoria when you get that hit, you have that feeling, that feeling of elevation, that feeling of like, you just know fear, and you feel excited, you wanna start a business with people, and. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha Like in the description of it, the eyes kind of get like this and the craziness, you see? And you go, yeah, it's bad for everybody else. It may be good for you for like 15 minutes, but everybody else is fucking miserable around

you. The worst thing to me was when I would be high, like smoking weed, and I'd be like just chilled and silly and I'd run into a coke head. And you're like, oh no. He's trying to talk to you like this? You just get battered with like talk. I'm like, I gotta get out of here. It's disgusting to me. Yeah like this. You just get battered with talk. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You're like, I gotta get out of here.

It's disgusting to you. It's a weird drug. It's a weird drug, but it's obviously very popular. And it causes a lot of problems. Yeah, no thanks anymore. No thanks. I'm good. Not interested in that one.

You smoke your butt. I'll smoke Mike's cigar. Yeah, I like cigars, too. Cigars are conversational. They're tools for conversation Yeah, relax you light your brain up a little bit get you a little little fired up read this book when you can I will Seriously, I will like it. I know I'll like it. I like talking to you. Yeah, it's uh Yeah, you'll laugh. You'll laugh. Not everybody will laugh when they read the book you

Will laugh I think you understand absurdity. How long did it take you to put it together two years? It's nonlinear. It goes all over the place in all these years Did you have when you sat down did you have like a framework in mind how you wanted to pursue it? No, no, no, cuz I've written probably 90 journals my life 90-fold journals and I would go back and I kind of started to put some of those together and I'd go, oh, that happened in 88, or that happened in 76, and that kind of stands out as being a milestone moment

or whatever, and I'd start to write those down. They were really poorly written, and then that started to instigate one thing and another thing, and it kind of wrote itself. I think it was 450 pages when I finished, and then I knocked it down to like 240. What is that process like, the editing process? That's a good process.

That's the hardest process I've ever gone through, but you become a better writer. Do you do it with an editor, or do you do it by yourself? No, I did it with an editor, because I didn't sell the book right away. You know how memoir, first of all, most memoirs are not written by the people who they're about, which makes no sense to me. Right.

Because you're writing about yourself, but you're hiring somebody else to do it, but you're taking the money. I don't get it. So I wrote it. I wrote the entire book, then I sold it. So I didn't sell it based on a celebrity. I sold it based on the book because you could read the book and some people hated it. Some people read it and they go, I don't get it.

It's too wild. It's too whatever. And everything is not for everybody. Exactly. And that's okay. Yeah. That's more than okay. What's wild is when I when I when I was in the middle, which I think you would like when I was in the middle of doing the audible for the book, about halfway through stumbling through the audible, I go go what the fuck did I do I should burn any evidence that this fucking was ever even thought about and then I spiraled for about a month and I don't spiral I just don't spiral about everything anything I just I'm pretty cool with anything that you know comes

along and then people started reading the book. And then I got this varied response that was always visceral. It was never like, I really liked your book a lot. I thought it was well written and all that. Somebody would go, fuck. Yeah. And that's nice. That means you nailed it.

I don't know. Yeah. I don't know, but I do know that the responses are good. Well, that's what's important. Yeah. It's working. It had a desired effect. You got out your thoughts. You got out your experiences. But that editing process is a good process

because you refine and you clarify and you simplify. Yeah. That's cool. You get to look at it with fresh eyes. With fresh eyes. Yeah. You know, it's the arm bar. You could just grab an arm and then try to bend it as much as you can or you can fucking figure out how to Get in there every time did you and tap the guy out? Did you always know that you're gonna do this you're gonna write this book? No, I'd written two or three books and put them in the corner in a dark corner and let them accumulate dust You know I've never I never thought I would do it publicly because I was always into that thing of like oh You're an actor and like get over it. You want to a writer you want to be a writer you want to be a musician

Every actor wants to be a rock star And I was like nah and then this lady read this book this lit agent She said I said it the third time and she said you need to fucking stop Saying you're referencing yourself as an actor who's a writer. you're a fucking writer and a really good writer, just right. And she was tough on me. So you feel like you had like, almost like a disclaimer, like I'm an actor.

Oh yeah, I did. That's what you're doing, giving yourself like an escape. I did, because there was something about that profession anyway that I always looked at and I always thought, why am I, why do I do this? This is dumb. You know what I mean? And what, like where does the self-importance come from? What happened to the wagon that just went down

and people tried to shoot you? Doesn't the self-importance just come from attention? You get extraordinary amounts of attention and people develop self-importance because of that. Because they think they deserve that attention. Because it's a false thing. And then you start seeing people manifest it like excuse me I said hot coffee. I didn't say warm coffee

I said, you know and you go I don't I don't So for me, it's probably another attempt which I think I've manifested in a bunch of different ways of Right sizing and there's nothing like that will right size you like a fucking book. It puts you right back into why are you doing what you were doing, where do you come from, how do you feel about your kids, where's your sensitivity, where are things that have become concrete that you need to break in order to feel again? Where are you limiting yourself?

And I don't like the idea of limiting myself. Like, did I love drinking? When I, fuck yeah. I had so much fun, dude. And so did a lot of other people. But I go, this is now limiting. Well, don't you wanna go out and take a drink? I go fuck no.

When you're out with a bunch of people having fun, no, because I'm having fun. Right. You don't need to drink to have fun, but there's a thing when you're drinking a lot and having fun, you think this is the reason why I'm having fun. This is the reason why I'm having fun.

Yeah, it's a trap. That's the trap. Yeah. That's the trap. Well, you know, you can have a drink or two and really enjoy yourself, or you could think that the only reason why you Well, you know, you can have a drink or two and really enjoy yourself. Or you could think that the only reason why you're enjoying yourself is because you're

having a drink or two. And that's usually why you have more drinks, because you think this is the reason people are liking me right now. This is the reason people think I'm funny. And you keep chasing that dragon. Imagine if you went on stage. And every time you went on stage,

you had to have at least six drinks. Because you go, this is what they want. And then you wake up in the morning, and your kid goes and wakes you up, and you're like, ugh, fuck. And you go, that's not worth it. What's the fucking dude's name from Knight Rider? You know I'm talking about. Oh, David Asselhoff?

Yeah. You ever see that video? Of course I did. The kids. The burger video. Yeah. It's the saddest fucking thing ever. Yeah, it didn't look like. The kids. The burger video. Yeah. It's the saddest fucking thing ever. Yeah, it didn't look like a good burger.

Well, he's just hammered and his kid filmed it. It's awful, man. Oh, it's so awful. It's so cringy. Yeah. That's what everybody's afraid of, becoming that pathetic example to children. And you wonder how much that exists and the video's not going. That daughter videoed that.

Right. Like, I want you to see what this looks like right and supposedly that kind of threw him into sobriety or whatever I don't know if he's over or not did he? I don't know I will hope he is if anything would throw you into sobriety your children filming you that's the lowest moment possible would do it for you yeah I didn't want to be filmed so I stopped early he He got off at the right time. I did get filmed the last time. Yeah?

Yeah, it was super lame. I was at a, what do you call it, a Del Taco, and I tapped the cab in front of me accidentally when I was moving forward. And he got out and like created a thing and somebody filmed it from the back of the cab. Oh wow. Yeah, and I look stupid. You can't fucking drive. Ah!

You're not a fucking drive. You're like, oh dear. Shh, quiet. Don't speak. Oh no. Don't speak. There's nothing worse than being sober and seeing something when you're drunk. Oh, there's nothing.

You're like, oh no, I'm so gross. Because your perception of it, why you were like, no man, this is an honorable moment. You're saying I did something that I didn't do. Right. And we need to hash this out. When the reality is, is you're just kind of regurgitating bullshit.

Yeah. No. Also, you know how to like affect people with your words Yeah, you know how to express yourself in a dramatic way. You think you're gonna fucking get through this on top actor Yeah, motherfucker this I'm going Shakespeare on you. You know, my favorite movie of yours is what no country for old men Why cuz it's so fucked up? Cuz it's so fucked up a Because it's so fucked up? It's such a fucked up movie.

Even the end, the end when it ends, you're like, what happened? That's the end? Yeah. It's like that guy, what's the name? Javier? What's his name? Boredom. God damn that guy was a good psycho.

He was so good. God damn. That movie was so, it was just so unusual and intense. And there was no feeling, and people ask this all the time, there was no feeling that it was a special movie. Really? Yeah, I told you I went back to Marfa, Texas for the first time in 18 years with Stapleton, and the guy running the bank is the first guy

that Javier kills in the movie. This is the guy running the bank right now, Chip. Wow. Right, and I talked to Chip, I have a picture of me and Chip, and I talked to Chip and I said, I said, fuck, you're the first guy, you know, did you think that? And he said, no, that was a friend of a friend who said that they were auditioning people and the reason I did it is because I figured nobody would ever see it.

It seemed like a small... No, that's the proprietor. It's the first guy that Javier killed outside. That was a good scene though. The proprietor was a good scene. What is that dude like in person? Javier? The best. The sweetest human being. One of my best friends. Crazy. Yeah.

That's inside of him. That he can... Well, that's the thing. That's what makes him an artist. Yes. Yes. Because he's one of these guys that literally, he was so depressed during that thing. Really? Oh my god, dude. Because he didn't like doing it? No, he was like, look at my hair. What the fuck? You know what I mean? That's depressed him. Look at him. Oh my god. He plays. I mean, he's a good psychopath. He wore SPF 100. He had an umbrella all the time to keep the sun off him. You see how pale he looks? Yeah. But yeah, that's the guy.

The guy to the left, that's Chip. Can you stand there for a second, please? So he was really depressed because of his hair? Yeah, and me and Woody would take him out. We would take him out to the cowgirl, what was it called? Cowgirl Cafe. And we would have drinks with him, we would make him, because he would stay in his apartment with the drapes drawn

and all this kind of shit. He just didn't want to go out. He said, I don't like violence, I don't drive, I don't know why they hired me. Why the fuck did they hire me? Like, why am I here? How did he pull that out, though? And I'm from Spain.

This guy's not from Spain I Remember when we worked we've sat in a trailer and he said in that that proprietor scene. He's has this great line He goes call it Takes the coin goes like that. He says call it the guy says I don't want to call it He says you have to call it. It's destiny calling for you And it and we were in his trailer and how he says how do you say it? And I said call it and how we kept saying call it and Javier says, how do you say it? And I said, call it. And Javier kept saying, call it. And I said, no, dude, call it. Can you hear it?

Play it for a whole hour. I'll put the headphone on. What's the most you ever lost when you called into us? Sir? The most you ever lost when I called into us. I don't know, I couldn't say. Call it. Call it, yes. For what?

Just call it. Well, we need to know what we're calling it for here. You need to call it. I can't call it for you. It wouldn't be fair. I didn't put nothing up. Yes, you did. You've been putting it up your whole life. You just didn't know it.

You know what date is on this coin? No. 1958. It's been traveling 22 years to get here. And now it's here. And it's either heads or tails. And you have to say, call it. Look, I need to know what I stand to win.

Everything. How's that? You stand to win everything. Call it. All right. Heads then. Well done. Don't put it in your pocket, sir. Don't put it in your pocket. It's your lucky quarter.

Where you want me to put it? Anywhere not in your pocket. What, it'll get mixed in with the others and become ingest-a-kind? Which it is. I mean, if you look at that from a different perspective, you say that scene could have been the worst scene ever. It's because of the simplicity of the scene. It just... Plus the consequences. It's the pause. Bloom in the air.

It just hangs. And it's you know that this guy has some sort of weird morals. It's so good, man. Yeah, he's got some code that he lives by. He's about to impose this code on this guy. And it has no problem putting that bolt through his brain. No problem. And the guy knows it. And he doesn't even know why he knows it it's just knows it yeah and you sit there and you just kind of it's it's a great scene

man yeah how did you not know that movie was great while you were doing it because it was so we were just the Coen brothers are fucking amazing they're amazing but you were just having they had done two movies that were sort of bigger than what they normally do. One was with Clooney and one was with Tom Hanks and it didn't work. Oh brother. No, that fucking Oh brother. I love that. Amazing. Yeah. Amazing. Was Lady Killers and what was the one that I'm learning? Well, there you go. Yeah.

But yeah, so I think they just went back to the simple like the one with Corona. Well, there you go. Yeah. Um, but they, yeah. So I think they just went back to this simple, like Burnett. No Burn After reading was after no country, which was also really good. Super good. But yeah, they just kind of went back to this very kind of feral, you know, base place and just said, let's just tell this simple story and let's let it happen. Let's maybe, I don't know. I don't think they're like How did you not know why you were doing it though? Like this? It just didn't have amazing scenes. It didn't have that vibe

It was so simple wild was so simple and and but in the wild though into the what dude when I saw I saw it with my kid Which was probably super irresponsible. How old was your kid at the time? He was 16. He was like, that's on the cost. But I saw it with him in an editing room on a big screen and we left and we got in the car and we didn't talk for 15 minutes. And that's never happened. Wow. Like literally not one word.

Wow. And then I said, what do you think? And he goes, fuck. Which is a great response. That's that movie. That is that movie. That movie is fun. You know, you want to tie it together too in the end and like a typical Hollywood ending

and Javier and my character go head to head at the end and that doesn't happen. So you do something, which is how it was written in the book, Cormac. And I got to know Cormac really well You know I was with Cormac the night before he died and oh no kidding Wow So and I asked that guy could fucking write some of the greatest writing American writing ever yeah the history There's something about his writing. It's like Jesus Christ. That's another one of those guys, artists, where you go, I would ask him about his writing, and didn't want to talk about it ever. And then finally he got mad at me one day and

he was like, I don't fucking know, man. I just sit down at the typewriter and it comes. Like what do you want me to tell you? Wow. I was like, all right, man. Fucking 87 years old, relax. But he could write. I mean, he had some, he was tapped into, and talk about a guy who just like, you were like the muse and do you have a special place and do you have this thing that, no. Just sits down and writes?

The bed that he was on, it was me, his ex-wife, his son and Cormac that last night. Wow. Always at the edge of his bed was that typewriter that he used for 25, 30 years to write all those novels. And then he had one before that that was exactly the same. But that typewriter was on an old piece of wood at the foot of his bed.

Wow. And even at the end, he would just grab that thing and get it out. It was cool. Yeah, there's rare humans like that that have that thing. Yeah. Yeah, I just tap and they tap into it and they just keep going. They get on that path and they just keep going. It just keeps getting better. Just get better at it. We've talked about a series of very special people. You know, what makes the difference of what makes somebody that special, that iconic?

Are they crazy? Are they talented? They're definitely different. They're different. Yeah. I mean, it's a resistance to the norm. It's acceptance of reality. It's a poetic understanding of our place in the universe.

There's so many different things that are all sort of coalescing into this. But they see through a different lens though. They're just made up of a different cellular makeup. That's probably why he didn't want to talk about it. He didn't want to fuck it up. He didn't want to fuck it up. He didn't want to mitigate it. He didn't want to lessen it. He didn't want to, what's the word, make it pedestrian. Yes. You know what I mean?

Yes. He didn't want to try. Sometimes magic is just magic. You don't want to figure out how it's happening. Just know that you can do it and just keep doing it. Exactly. Just be a craftsman. Be a person who's dedicated to this thing.

Yeah. You know? Yep. He has to know, he had to know it was really good. I mean, enough people told him it was really good. Yeah, but if you have even a guy like that who wrote the first Up and Tell, All the Pretty Horses, none of his books sold. That's pretty crazy. Like a thousand people bought it.

1500 people bought it. And then it was made into a movie. And then you go back and you're like, all these banned books that we know back in the day. 1984, George Orwell, you know, Henry Miller, all these fucking people. You know, people are like, ew. And then, you know, Van Gogh painting a painting

and all those paintings being outside getting rained on. And now they're selling for a hundred million dollars Yeah, all after he's dead all after he's dead. Yeah, he never knew he sold one painting in his lifetime So he never got to Not even a little bit experience what? Look at what you did, right? Wow, man. Well, maybe that's why they're so good Cuz they have to do it anyway expression. Yeah, you're doing paid attention or not Yeah, they were and they are themselves to it. Yeah, thousand percent. He's an artist an artist a real artist. Yeah

Yeah Thanks, dude. Thank you. There's a lot of fun. I really appreciate it. I really appreciate it I'm gonna read your book immediately. I would like you to. I will definitely. You're one guy I would really like for you to read. I'll get on it. Alright. Thank you very much. Bye everybody.