The Joe Rogan Experience - #2246 - James Fox

Episode Date: December 24, 2024

James Fox is a UFO investigator and documentary filmmaker. His new film, “The Program,” is available to stream now. https://geni.us/TheProgram Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Need more hot takes? Head to the FanDuel Sportsbook app. They've got more ways to bet, more ways to win, and more ways to cash out quick. You can cook up same-game parlays on any MLB or soccer game all in one place, not to mention golf, tennis, and more. Download FanDuel and get more from North America's number one sportsbook. Please play responsibly. 19-plus and physically located in Ontario. Gambling problem call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connectsontario.ca the Joe Rogan experience it's very good time to have a UX UFO expert in. A lot has been going on. This is, you know, I had, I know you ran into him. I had Ryan Graves on yesterday.

Oh my God, I'll tell you the funniest story about how I ran into him. You ran into him in the lobby of the hotel, right? So the lobby told me, they were all, don't use this one elevator, it's really rickety. And it makes a lot of noise and it's just, it's not very reliable and just don't use it. So I didn't. And then I was leaving. 24 hours later, I come down and get some coffee. And I was like, ah, fuck it, let me take the rickety elevator.

I was like, they told me not to take it, but I'm gonna take it anyway. So I push the button, I'm standing there, I hear this... Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I'm like Ryan Graves. What are you doing? He goes. I don't know. What are you doing? I was like are you doing what I think you're doing he goes yeah Did he tell you that? Yes, he did he told me ran into you. He didn't tell me the whole story about the rickety Yeah, yeah

And he was like this shadowy finger up against the corner like kind of just you know Looking at it. He's looking at me. It was really funny We had a lot of we talked a lot of nonsense about Aliens, but we also talked about the technology that he knows his state-of-the-art when it comes to drones Yes, and that some of these ones in New Jersey. They're doing things that you can't really do yet. Yes Yeah, which is really fascinating. Yes, like okay, and there's a size of SUVs, right? So is it ours and we somehow or another have some stuff that the mainstream Drone manufacturers at the highest level aren't aware of yet

Is it ours is like some crazy military stuff because if it's not and it's coming from the ocean like what do you mean? It's coming. What the fuck did you fifty of them? What do you mean? What do you mean? 50 suburban sized Do you 50 of them? What do you mean? What do you mean 50? suburban sized So check this out This is really funny. I've been working with this guy We've been communicating on the signal for a long time. Actually. He was through proton He was emailing me stuff about Virginia the UFO crash in Virginia and but he was anonymous One day I was like, he's really knowledgeable.

And he was sending me stuff that was really helpful. Like you should track down this flight, because if it happened it was going to this airport, go to this base. And I was like, finally one day I was like, who are you? And how do you know what you know? He goes, I'm a retired United States Air Force Colonel. I was like, oh.

And he goes, and I'm also an experiencer. I had an experience back in 1980. Blah, blah, blah. So he had a UFO encounter. It's in the movie towards the end. But anyway, he texted me yesterday and he goes, James, I really want you to explain to me how the hell you orchestrated a UAP invasion

right around the time your film's coming out. I was like, I'd really like to know how you did that. I was like, I know I could. Do you know what kind of a budget you would have to have to have drones running in the sky all over? How many different cities are reporting it now? Like what's the numbers? It's exploding all over all over the place and it's getting better I've heard California. I've heard Europe now bases in England, New York, New Jersey I've heard San Diego. I New York, New Jersey. I've heard San Diego.

I definitely, wasn't there something in Ohio, right? Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, they had to shut that place down. That's Ohio. So I've heard New Jersey. I think Florida, right? That was the one that Ryan Graves showed us a photo of. That was from Florida. So like who fucking, what's going on?

Who fucking knows? I was super busy. You know, I had the release of what's going on? Who fucking knows? I was super busy. You know, I had the release of the film going on. And so I was like trying to focus on that and getting everything lined up. And it was a huge push. And all these text messages from all around the world are pouring in like, what the hell's going on

with these drones? And I was like, ah, it's probably something conventional. I'm not gonna worry about it right now. I'm trying to keep on focusing what I got at hand here. And then I started getting more information coming in, more information that a buddy of mine called me and he actually went to Brazil with me a couple years ago and he's like, bro, I live here.

I'm seeing these things in the sky. I've seen them seven times now. They're the size of an SUV. I was like, well, what do they look like? What do they behave like? He's like, well, they're making noise. I was like, oh, okay, well that quickly kind of eliminates something non-conventional in terms of propulsion.

But then I got reports of objects that didn't make any noise, and it would go silent. What kind of noise it was making? Like a propeller's drones would make, but loud, and they have a loiter, but they're big, and they have a loiter time of hours. The average drone, like I fly drones for my films,

is like, you're lucky to get 25 minutes. These things are hours. Yeah, five hours at a time. They go dark when they're approached by other objects. They're not getting picked up on FLIR at times. And then some of them make have no noise. I've heard crescent shaped and then heard about the ones that really got me because I contacted Christopher Mellon.

I was like, Chris, what is going on, buddy? I really rely on him for good information. And he's like, I really don't know, man is going on, buddy? I really rely on him for good information. And he's like, I really don't know, man. It's a real shit show. And the US government seems to be clueless right now. He goes, some of them are conventional. Some of them are misidentified conventional crap.

But there are other ones coming in off the ocean that are up to 50. The Coast Guard and police department are reporting that truly remain a mystery. And then you had Schumer at a press conference, just like it was yesterday. And then's going he's a we don't know What they are we don't know what they are and the guy goes. Yeah, so it's a UAP goes well the drones He goes well you wrote the legislation

It's a UAP. It's unidentified anomalous phenomenon. Why don't you just use UAP? I think they're using the word drone because UAP is almost too scary like some kind of invasions happening That's what you AP is unidentified anomalous. Yeah phenomenon Yeah, so it can that be kind of anything doesn't know really flying Well, that's the thing because it used to be unidentified aerial Well, it was UFO unidentified flying object then it was UAP unidentified aerial phenomenon, but then they're coming out of the water Yeah, I feel like this is not so they said it's normal Why don't they just keep using UFO because it has because people associate UFO with otherworldly and they wanted to take that remove that baggage and make it a little less scary

That's my personal opinion. I kind of get that but also it's just an Unidentified flying object if we find out what it is, then it becomes an identified flying object It doesn't necessarily mean it's alien true But I think think of the stealth bomber. People are probably jumping out of their windows right now if they said UFOs are invading the East Coast. You remember World of the Worlds? Right, that's true.

Right? People were jumping out of their windows. That's a good point. That's actually a very good point. So I think they toed it out. I think they're using the word drone even though they're unidentified just because of the fear factor. I think the fear factor is real.

Yeah. I can't help but cringe when I hear that word. Oh, sorry. The fear element. It's so funny. It was too much of a part of my life. Too close to home. So when did they start?

Like when was it acknowledged that this was an issue that was reoccurring recently? Like, you know, obviously there's always been something in the sky, people have always seen things, who knows what they are, whether or not they're, a lot of people see Starlink and they think it in the sky Yeah, I've always seen things who knows what they are whether or not there You know a lot of people see starlink and they think yeah, yeah, of course But when did this drone thing that we're currently experiencing basically every day when did it start a Couple weeks ago, maybe a month. Maybe maybe a month ago. That's when I started really hearing about it

But Jamie is there like I have any sort of official answer to that? I have something that 20th 19th something like that is mid-November. Mid-November? I have something that this is about an air base in Vandenberg Air Force Base in 2003 and this is not an anonymous, but this is about incursions over, listen to this, I promised this individual that I met at Seoul Conference. He's a witness. He's a military guy. My name is Jeffrey Nusitelli. I served 16 years in the United States Air Force as a technical sergeant and a military police officer. In October 2003, my co-workers and I witnessed a series of extraordinary UAP incursions at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California. The initial event is known as the Vandenberg Red Square and it was first

mentioned during the historic UAP hearing held in 2023. The case involved Boeing contractors who witnessed a huge red square-shaped object roughly the size of a football field, hovering over a missile defense system. The object was silent and had no visible means of propulsion. The contractors watched in amazement as the massive object slowly drifted east and vanished over the hills. I retained official Air Force records of the event, including the blotter form entry, which includes the names and contact information of all the witnesses and provided it to select members of Congress,

AERO, and the FBI. AERO is a new UAP task force, all-domain anomalous resolution office. After the initial event, several other UAP incursions took place at Vandenberg. I was on duty during many of the encounters, and I investigated the incidents as they unfolded. Now remember, this is not anonymous reporting here. They include a football field-sized craft that terrified security guards as it silently hovered over a launch facility before flying off at an unbelievable rate of speed. A brightly illuminated silent object that landed on the base flight line before accelerating instantaneously and disappearing into space.

A huge triangular shaped craft larger than a C-130 that hovered 50 feet over a police officer before it drifted slowly over the base. A blue-white liquid orb roughly the size of his house that hovered over his house on the base. The object stayed no sound and had zero obvious means of propulsion. And he says, my experiences with UAP were awe-inspiring, exciting, and terrifying. I don't know why UAP are flying over our bases and our neighborhoods, but I do know the UAP phenomenon is of the utmost importance to all of humanity. I currently have five other military witnesses to the Weidenberg incursions that are all willing to testify tomorrow under oath

that these statements are true. We need answers to this mystery and better government transparency. Thank you for the opportunity to share my story, former United States Air Force technical sergeant and witness Jeff Nusitelli. Whoa. Crazy, right? I mean, we're talking object size of a football field. That's bananas. And then they take off in insanely fast, just like the tic tac. Straight up into space.

So this was it? What was the exact date of this? This was 2003. There was a number of incursions during that year, up all the way into 2005. And he has the names and they submitted it to the new head of arrow. That's interesting, because that coincides with the Tic Tac. It does coincide with the Tic Tac.

I wonder if it's like, you know, vacation season. You know? It's like every few years. Let's go check out what those guys are up to you know what I mean Maybe it's like a real pain in the ass to get here Maybe it's one of those things like you can go to Australia, but it's dude. It's a pain in the ass It's 16 fucking hours on a plane. It's a long flight. Oh my gosh I'm gonna South Africa one time and that was like 22 hours. I was like this plane's gonna run out of gas

That's exactly what I'm saying. It's like one of those things. It's like you can do it, but it's a pain in the ass So maybe they only travel to earth every now and again How could these incursions have been taking place and like here we are 20 years later We're only now really starting to talk about them I think the reason being is if you don't understand it and you can't protect people from it because it's so beyond our Capabilities that if just describing it accurately Removes all confidence that our government has everything under control That's one one reason why and also if you have no answers, you don't know what the hell it is

Well, it's a very good point. Yes, you don't know what the hell it is. What are you even gonna say? Hey, there's something that came we don't know what the fuck it is It's as big as a football field shot off into the sky. We have no idea they'd be like, what do you mean? We have no idea hire someone who understands this and then they'd be like that's exactly get him out of office I remember like 20 years ago Bride-eyed bushy-tailed totally naive still bright I mean still still naive but I was meeting with a general and I said God it was so amazing You know

The story is like so unifying and we had this kumbaya moment and we discovered that, you know, we're not alone in the universe and wouldn't that be amazing and blah, blah, blah, the implications for all of humanity. And he sat there almost chuckling at me. And he goes, looked at me and he goes, you got it all wrong, man. You got to see this through our lens. I was like, through your lens? He goes, yeah, the military's perspective. I was like to your lens. He goes, yeah the military's perspective

I was like, okay, tell me and I never thought about this before you just mentioned it. He goes, okay Imagine this scenario we sit there and we say, you know My fellow Americans it has been brought to our attention that there are craft of unknown origin whizzing around with impunity in our airspace They exhibit a technology that's light years advanced from anything that we have. We don't know who they are, where they come from, what they want. Shall they turn to be hostile?

We have no visible means of defense against them. Thank you and good night. You're fired. You're fired. You're fired. And then someone like Trump will come along. I'll make a deal with the aliens. But you see that predicament.

People always go, why the secrecy? Duh. Yeah, but you see that predicament? Like people always go, why the secrecy? Duh. Yeah, you have to have secrecy because you got to imagine the job of a politician in general, right? Like you have to pretend that you're going to be able to handle situations that you well know you're not going to be able to handle. Yeah.

If you're running for president, you know that you're not going to fix this economy, all right? Stop. Just stop. Everything's going to be, I'm going to wave the magic wand, and it's all going to be taken care of. You know you're not gonna fix this economy all right stop Just gonna be I'm gonna wave the magic wand and it's all gonna be taken care of No, you're not gonna implement electric cars over the stop Shut the fuck up. There's not enough batteries So you're if you're lying about all that you're probably gonna lie about whether or not you can handle the alien threat I will unite us. I will unite us as a planet so we can deal together with the aliens.

Yeah, yeah, let's do it! All you have to do is just say some bullshit like that. And then someone probably bends his ear when he gets into offices and is like, yeah. A good speaker, like a JD Vance, like a guy like that. Very bright, young, energetic speaker. He can convince people he can talk to the aliens. He can convince people that he can unite us all. Have you seen the program? No, I have not. He can convince people that he can unite us all. Have you seen the program?

No, I have not. Okay, so there is... Explain it to everybody. Okay, so the program basically, it's funny because the last time I was on the show, we were talking about an alleged crash retrieval case that took place in Virginia, Brazil in 1996. And your documentary on it, which is... Yeah, Moment of Contact.

Amazing, amazing documentary. 1996 and your documentary on it. Yeah moment of contact amazing amazing document So we're talking about that and I I came off the heels of doing the phenomenon Which touched a little bit on a potential crash retrieval program, but then it was like then it was the crash retrieval over in Virginia Brazil and then I got hyper focused on that and then I had sort of was a personal journey for me was okay And then I had sort of was a personal journey for me was, okay, the elected officials, what do they know? And when did they know it? Do we have a crash retrieval program? That's what I set out to do.

And then three months after I was on your show in April of 2023, the highest level intel officer, David Grush testifies under oath that there is a crash retrieval program and that the government does have definitive proof that we're not alone. So he kind of opened the door for me and a lot had happened since the release of the phenomenon

and moment of contact, there was all this legislation, there was the first congressional hearing, there was behind closed doors meetings with a number of intel officers and witnesses and then you had the second congressional hearing which was David Grush which was absolutely phenomenal. I'm sure you saw that. And then just recently, just a couple of months ago, we had the third congressional hearing

which I actually, funny enough, got to attend. It was the first time in my 30 years investigating. I was actually sitting behind people while they were testifying under oath about legitimacy of the phenomenon as well as there's a crash retrieval program. I mean people have to understand that feel like maybe these things aren't happening fast enough. Just a couple years ago they didn't even admit that the phenomenon is real. Now there's people testifying under oath that we have a crash retrieval program. So drip, drip, drip. Things are happening. They're not putting the genie back in the bottle. Do you wonder at all that

you're being mind-fucked? Do you wonder at all that this is a massive psy-op and this is all just to cover up some very advanced American weapons technology? I think it's a very good question and here's why I don't believe that. Because I have done 30 years of field research, right? So I've gone to China, I've been to Russia, I've been to Australia and Africa and South America, Canada, Alaska, all across Europe, United States, and I've investigated close encounters of the third kind. And I ask your audience, don't take it from me, but the the United States Air Force Investigated and categorized close and count as the first second and third kind right during their official capacity project blue project sign project grudge

But the great book and movie by the way if you haven't seen it folks close and count Yeah, I'm probably the best alien invasion movie of all time. Dr. Heineck has a cameo appearance in that film Did you know that I had heard that? Yes, I don't remember who he was though, but wasn't the French guy, didn't he? Yeah, Jacques Fillet. He's supposed to be Jacques Fillet. Jacques Fillet has a cameo. Well, there's a guy acting his part, but actually Dr. Jalen Hynek, who's a scientific advisor to Project Blue Book all those years for the Air Force, actually has a cameo appearance, smoking a cigar during the encounter. And that's him. That's right. That's right. That's right. Smoking a pipe. Smoking a pipe and he a lot of the cases right down to Richard Dreyfus's face being burned by the UFO.

Those came directly out of project Blue Book files even the description of what the entities looked like. Close encounters again close encounters of the third kind. This is the United States Air Force documenting this stuff. Yeah and he and and he took it directly out of Project Blue Files and made a movie out of it. And as a little wink-wink nudge-nudge, he has Dr. Hynek have a cameo appearance in the movie. You know what? Most people don't know that. It's a fantastic movie too. It's a great movie.

Because it's a movie that's filled with, it's not like standard UFOs land. There's some play going on. There's some weirdness to the way they interact with us That sort of is much more realistic in terms of like the things that people experience Yeah, they experience interactions very strange interactions and when they had those little orb like things that were flying around the movie That's all straight out of oh, yeah. Yeah, oh hundred percent I remember had a buddy money was the pilot over Europe in the 70s and he used to come for family dinners And he was always talking about I was like, yeah, yeah, oh hundred percent I remember had a buddy of mine He was a pilot over Europe in the 70s and he used to come for family dinners and he was always talking about I was Like yeah, yeah, whatever and then later we're all in the lighters when I started getting an interest in UFOs I was like Michael tell me about that UFO and kind of you had that red orb

He goes it was just like it was in the close-in counts of the third kind Steven Spielberg's movie It was like ah, they took those files directly out of project moving files and right onto the big screen That's what the food fighters were right? Yeah food fighters to that little orbs. Yeah movie and I was like ah they took those files directly out of project moving files and right onto the big screen. That's what the Foo Fighters were right? Yeah Foo Fighters too they had little orbs. Yeah these fighter pilots are flying around they're seeing these things with them. Let me ask you, this is why that I don't think it's a Psyop thing. I don't think it's a Psyop either.

Well the reason why I don't is because okay I don't just believe Grush because he testified under oath and he's a high level intelligence officer. That's very impressive. I believe Grush because his claims align with my personal research in the field. Remember, I've investigated crash retrieval programs, crash retrieval cases, right? And so I was, I mean, when I put out Moment of Contact,

well, actually, when I went in to put out Moment of Contact, people were going, James you just dropped one of the biggest, most successful UFO films in terms of transcending the UFO community and penetrating a much broader, more mainstream audience. Are you sure you wanna put out a documentary that deals with an alleged crash and live aliens walking around the town of Virginia Brazil?

Like seriously, that's what you wanna put out there. You got access to like Harry Reid and all these intel insiders and now you want to do that? You're going to tarnish your reputation. It's a bad- Who gave you that advice? A lot of people did. I wish you called me. I was like, James, you can handle it. You probably heard about Moment of Contact and then you thought, oh, this sounds too

crazy that eventually you watched it. No, I thought, well, I always think a crash and contact sounds crazy. I know I always and it does I always think that but I would have never told you not to do it. Okay, I would never told you not to do it You're really good at this. You know how to like you're really good at like explaining, but you look half the town talking Yeah, including the man incredible story. It's an incredible story. It's a phenomenal story It's one of those stories where you like if everybody's in on this This is crazy if everybody's telling and no one there's not one contrarian that comes out and goes they all told me to lie I'm not fucking lying. This is stupid. They're doing it for tourism. Oh, yeah one person. Come on. There's always some hater There's always some hater wants to ruin your gag. I remember you know what I mean?

Oh, yeah, I told you I remember when I was making Moment of Contact and I wasn't done with it yet, Lou Elizondo was like, he's like, James, he called me up. He goes, I need a copy. I was like, the film's not done. I don't care. I need a copy. Give me a rough cut. I don't care.

I was like, okay, okay, what's the urgency? And he's like, you don't understand who's watching this right now. So I was like, okay, so I'm giving him copies. And I had absolutely no idea ever in 100 million years that I think we're gonna be having months after the release of moment of contact, a congressional hearing under oath that was a crash. What year did the moment of contact come out? It came out at the end of 2022. Do you think Biden watched it? Do you think he sat down with Biden? That would have been wild. He's been so dismissive at all. Like, you know,

Obama said a lot more about it. Why? Because he's already in space. He's in space right now. He's like, go talk to Obama. He's in orbit right now around Saturn. Really? That's the best you can do? He's like Dr. Manhattan. He's on the moon in a glass house. Okay, let's say if Biden, if you're listening right now, you have nothing to lose. You're the president of the United States, sir. Release the hounds. He's never running ever again. Exactly.

He's not running for a second term. You're, it's come on, we're done. He's already part in more human beings than any president ever, other than Carter. To the advice at the end of the program by Senator Harry Reid, who's now the late Senator Harry Reid. And I said to him,

what advice would you give the president? And it could have been any president at the time. And he said, don't be afraid of tarnishing your legacy by addressing this issue head on. And I hope that Biden gets to see that. And I really hope that president-elect Donald Trump gets to see that. People are ready for the truth. They've had enough of the line

I think we're way beyond that at this point. I agree with you. However, when I confronted mr. Trump Oh, he was very cagey. Was he really very cagey? I've seen some things they told me some things He didn't tell me shit. He basically it was I see we like neither confer confirmed or denied. No, there was no eyes I don't do that shit, especially to a pro like Donald Trump like you're not yeah. Yeah, we're gonna do it to an actor So shut up. You know what? So just they think okay, Daniel Day-Lewis told you that he just ate a baby You'd fucking believe him. You know what I mean? You know what I mean like this idea they like little what is that tell you what it is I tell you depends on the person depends the person if it's your regular

Crackpot and they tell you a lie like something's up, but there's people that can hide things they can hide things behind their eyes I think he knows something. I don't think he's that interested. I think he's more interested I think he's a sort of a no-nonsense type of guy That's this is why you kind of have to be to be managing multiple businesses simultaneously, right? He's always done that his whole career, right? Managed being on The Apprentice while running these golf courses,

while having these buildings, apartment buildings, hotels. He's constantly doing something, right? So while he's doing all that, and he's playing golf, while he's doing all that, there's no time for fucking aliens, man. There's no time for nonsense. There's no time for sitting around with your buddies, you know, smoking a cigar going, what do you think, man?

I mean, if they fucking... If I was them, man, I would do what they're doing. You know, I wouldn't even... There's no time for that nonsense talk. That guy's got businesses. But we got objects of unknown origin flying over residential areas, flying over military bases, flying over nuclear silos. Well now I think he's much more interested because-

That's a matter of national security. I mean, people are freaking out, like what the hell are we seeing? And they're going, we don't know what they are, but everything's fine. We're totally safe, there's no national security issue here, we don't know what they are, but you're fine, don't worry about it. You remember, what was the Steven Spielberg movie with the shark, the great white shark? Yeah, Jaws. Jaws, you remember when they are, but you're fine. Don't worry about you remember What was a Steven Spielberg movie with the shark the great white shark? Yeah jaws jaws Everything's fine. Mayor. The mayor is like keep swimming. Yeah, keep swimming. The water's fine. Everyone say people are getting bitten Go about your lives

Drones That is it. Everything's fine. Go about your lives. There's definitely not nuke sniffing drones. Come on, nuke sniffing drones. So what if some nuclear material was just stolen off a cargo ship? Whatever, whatever. Guys. All the online conspiracy stuff is crazy and I get a lot of it because obviously what I do, and people send me all kinds of stuff. I was like, well, hang on a second. I wish I could put boots on the ground, but no,

there's something really weird going on. And the fact that they don't know or they're claiming that they don't know what it is. And here's another really funny thing. I actually, in the program that I did now, and I hope you get a chance to watch it because it's crazy, it's got. Tell people what it is.

Okay, so basically I was talking about earlier people the title the whole time it's called the program it's gonna be on it's on it just came out said number one right now it's on Amazon come out yesterday oh beautiful I know so I came out yesterday it's on Amazon it's on Apple TV and you can Google the because they algorithm algorithms are just starting to catch up with it on Google right now, because everyone's like, I can't find it. Look up the program and then Google James Fox UFO documentary, the program, you will 100% find it. It's being also made

available internationally. They're working as fast as they can to get it up. It just went up yesterday. It's the most independent film from start to finish that I've ever made, and it covers what happened because everybody thinks the government suddenly had this epiphany decide to be more transparent with the general public. That's not what happened. What happened is there were a couple of Intel insiders in the Pentagon reviewing some of this classified data or so-called classified data and resigned in protests of excessive secrecy. They found a loophole.

This is Lou, probably Jay Stratton, I don't know for sure, definitely Chris Mellon, and they walked these evidence tapes out of the Pentagon through this loophole, they bent the rules a little bit, and onto the front page of the New York Times, right? So that happened, and it got, it was just, it was exploded, you remember that. And since then, there has been this unprecedented push

by a bipartisan group of lawmakers to find out what the intelligence agencies know and when they knew it. And so that started happening behind the scenes, right? So it was 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, and then in 2022, they were like, we're having a congressional hearing. Congressman Andre Carson,

I think he's a Wisconsin, but I'm not positive, he put on, he spearheaded the first open congressional hearing, public open congressional hearing. And in that congressional hearing, they acknowledged the fact that the phenomenon was real, it was slowly introduced, that we were not getting told the facts. There was a document that came out called the Wilson Davis Memo, and that was about the discovery by a former DIA guy, Admiral Wilson, of the crash retrieval program that was like maybe 20, 20 plus years ago.

And none of the names or anything in that document were redacted. I cover that member in the film. And then 2023, another congressional hearing. This time it was David Grush talking about the crash retrieval program. It's been a steady progression. And so a lot has gone on between 2017 and 2024. And that is what this film does is it it covers behind the scenes, effort, bipartisan, a group of lawmakers' effort to find out

what the intelligence agencies really know. Yeah, and people that were, you know, and in one of them, there was an encounter, and I think I remember you hearing about it, because you wanted to get ahold of David Grush, and so you contacted me, and I actually had a drone up in the air in England and I was, I know, and I had my phone attached to my drone thing, because that's what it was using as a controller for the screen. And I'm flying the drone and there was a huge windmill and I saw this windmill and I was

like, oh, that's going to make a beautiful shot for the movie and it is in the movie. So I'm up there flying it and the wind, the turbines are going round and round and I can't quite tell how close my drone is to them. So I'm paying really good attention and I'm getting close to these big turbines and all of a sudden my phone's ringing and it's you. I'm like, oh my God, I can't not answer this. I got to answer. So I answered it while my drone was up there. And we talked briefly and you said, hey, can you get me in touch with David Grush? I said, yeah, I got a guy that I can put you in touch with, that was Jason Sands. And I guess you and Jason Sands talked about this alleged encounter in 1994 with this entity, alien, whatever you want

to call him, in the desert. So that was a crazy story. But in any case, so when you watch the movie and the program, you'll see the drone flying dangerously close to these and that's funny a little inside things I didn't I was on the phone didn't crash, but I was on the phone with you when it happened But when you watch the footage, it's like wow, that's really close. Is that guy public with that story? He well So because otherwise I would discuss it. Yeah. Yeah, uh, cuz it sounded so nutty. No, no, no. Okay, so here's what happened this is funny because when I was in Washington, D.C. with Mellon and this gentleman, Jason Sands, I'm using his name now, and Mellon looked at me and he goes, this guy's story is pretty wild.

I was like, what do you mean? He goes, really wild. And we're sitting down having dinner and Chris Mellon orders, he orders a drink, he had a tequila or whatever. Anyway, we were all having dinner and Jason Sands starts telling the story about this alleged encounter in 1994 and it's one of the craziest stories and I've been doing this for 30 years and this story is nuts, okay? You remember. Oh yeah. Yeah, I went like this to my phone. He was telling to me like there's one Yeah, me too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah me too. So

What the fuck did you just say insane? Yeah, so Oh, I will I'll get to that in one second. This is the reason why I can some well No, the reason why I can discuss it probably I know the reason why I can discuss it publicly is because he was gonna appear anonymously in the movie. And I was debating on exactly how to go about doing this because I was torn because you got a statement from an individual, you don't have his identity, but I was in DC, I put the whole thing down and I said, look, he was worried about his security, he was a whistleblower,

he'd already testified to a number of Senate Intel communities, Senate Armed Service community. And all about the UFO phenomena? Yeah, about the UFO phenomena. They're part of the UFO, UOP task force, they found him and he was giving them information and reporting on things. And so he goes, I'm really fearful, I don't know if this witness protection program is gonna be that helpful, I'm just, I'm worried. I said, look, if you're concerned about the story getting out or not getting out, if you want, I'm here, you can come to our studio. We could film you on camera. And if anything happens to you, it could be released.

And it could be a little insurance policy for yourself. He goes, that sounds great. Let's do it. So I did a whole film about it. And then I'm periodically posting clips or just still frames and updates on the movie as I'm making it, as I do on social media. And I posted this one scene and it had a clipboard on it in the scene and on that clipboard, if you zoomed right in, it had his name. So I posted the, by accident, I posted the damn thing

and my phone starts blowing up 10 minutes later. You just revealed this guy, what are you doing? Take it down, take it down, take it down. Too late, too late, so it was out there and he's getting all kinds of heat. So as a result of it, I'm giving the truncated version, he basically had to go through the Doppster process, which is basically pre-publication of authorization of what you can and cannot say.

Excuse me. So he basically could talk about a number of cases that were in the film. We had to blurp out one particular word, which in the movie it's blurred out. We had to blur about one particular word, which in the movie it's blurred out. We had to do that. That was that was Dobson. So it was the winter of 1994. There was a unidentified flying object that was picked up on the base. Old school UFO. Oh, yes, sir. It was it was a UFO. It was picked up on the base. Old school, UFO. Oh, yes, sir. Old school, it was a UFO. It was picked up on the base and it was recorded by sensory data

and it was picked up on camera. It had camera footage of it from different locations. What did it look like? It looked like, it was a weird shape. It was like an unusual shape and there's people talking about it. It's in the movie. And...

The film is in the movie? The film footage that leaked from the base is in the isn't so you can see what it looks like flying Kind of yeah, it's kind of blurry in some spots and yeah, you'll see it. So It's in the program. It's in the program. Yeah, and then you hear all the voices I actually had the voices cleaned up you can hear people talking about what the hell is it? Is there a clip we could see online? Just like it looks like Damn, I'm sorry.

Could you maybe just say the actual name of the incident? Maybe Jamie can find it. Yeah, try and find it. It's Nellis Test Range UFO 1994. See if you can find it. People put stuff up so quick. It's long and it's really bad. Yeah, true.

Good point. Because it's on Amazon right now, people put clips up so fast. Yeah, it's true. Yeah, and there's other things on there. So in. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, there's other things on there So in any case so that that that video there it is. That's terrible. It's there's much better footage of it Yeah, there's much better footage of it. It's in my movie. I had it cleaned up, but yeah, that's it basically can I see it again? So that's what it wait the footage I have is way better than this yeah that sometimes it's so Wait, the footage I have is way better than this. Yeah, sometimes it's...

So... So, what did it look... Jesus Christ, you know what that looks like, Jamie? It's a very weird shape. Jamie, you know what that looks like? It looks like... It looks like Terrence Howard's creation. Doesn't it?

It's weird. What is it? What does he call that again? But it was... Those things that lock together? Those, you know, the flying drone thing that he created. The linchpins? Linchpins.

Yeah. Terrence Howard created this fascinating concept for like a drone where it's like propellers going all these different directions and they sync up and they link together and It looks like that. Oh Yeah, so it's anyway, so it's footage people talking about it. What is it? We don't know It's not it's not identified and it flies around the base and that leaked and the names of the other witnesses leaked Three days later you explain Sorry to keep cutting you off because you to say what it did like how it moved It just it was like it was didn't have any visible means of propulsion. It didn't have any wings

It didn't have propellers. It just looked like a like an object around sort of object Weird shape almost like a helmet or something with things coming off of it And it was just moving around the base and they know asked nobody slow slowly at time. Oh, there it is. Okay That's it. That's exactly it Yeah, it's definitely not a big balloon and you hear no you hear everybody talking about it the audio that goes along with it And I had it cleaned up is they're all talking like nobody knows what it is So this is zoom is this why it's moved around like that. They're trying to keep it in focus and it's all it's all Mr. Sands explains all of that in in the film the program he talks about it so anyway so this leaks

people's names the witnesses leaks and three days later he's in a convoy Gesundheit he's in a convoy and it's early in the morning and there's three jeeps trucks jeeps in convoy on a dirt road heading out in Ellis Test Range and they see what looks like maybe somebody was involved in a plane crash, somebody that was struggling out the middle of the desert, it was early in the morning, it was wintertime and they're looking at this individual like oh my god is that a person that that individual needs some help, that individual looks like they need some help.

They look cold, their skin had a slight blue tint to it, and they're looking at this gentleman, and they're like, hey, let's stop the convoy. This person needs help, medical attention. Maybe they had a plane crash, and so we're gonna help this person out. And they pull the convoy over, and this individual comes up to the car, Jason stands, gets out the

right side of the door and as he's getting out, somebody in the truck screams, he's got no effing ears. And Jason says, he turns around and he looks at this guy and he had the same kind of uniform that they had had on, but the uniform was just immaculate. Like there wasn't any dust on it, no dust on the boots, and he was thinking to myself, well, that's weird. This guy's got no ears. Is this guy some kind of mutant? And he looks at him and he said his eyes were a lot bigger. It's all illustrated in the movie. And then he starts talking like he said it was like a snake bite him and he

was just paralyzed with fear. It was really scary. What am I looking at? Is this a human? Is this a mutant? Is this an alien? What is this and I starts talking to him in gibberish, but he said he started to understand like telepathically everything this this Person or an entity being creature alien, whatever you want to call it was saying to him and he was looking for some kind of metal And he didn't know tantalum and I and Jason sounds like you know, I don't know I don't have any you mean you mean Titanium he's like no tantalum or something and this conversation goes on for for a bit and then the guy just wanders back off and gets into that little craft that looked very similar to what you just saw there and

flies away and he said he sort of stair stepped away and everybody sort of came out of this comatose state and off and off they went. And we have the names of the other military witnesses that were on duty during the encounter, the alleged encounter. People are going to criticize me because I'm reporting on a close encounter of the third gun, but this Jason Sands says he's willing to do a lie detector test like public. He's willing to testify under oath that everything he's saying is true. We have a date, we have a location, and we have the names of the other on duty officers. So what I'm hoping is, despite the level of

criticism I'm going to receive for reporting on this, is that other individuals that have more information on this are going to be inclined to come forward. I also met with people in the Senate Armed Service Committee, Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, sorry, in the House, and they said Jason Sands is who he says he is, he checks out, he is named previously classified or classified programs, he's identified, the guy's legit, his credentials check out And so I opted to go ahead and report on it with the hope that a more information will come out on it

Listen man, it's there's nothing wrong with reporting on a story like that. There's been a bunch of them It's not a small number of these things where people have experienced things and imagine if it's true if it's true They're not all liars. I can't believe they're all liars imagine being that person who had that experience and not have anybody believe you not only that but it can actually ruin your reputation in your career to talk about this experience which is the reality of it and it's one of the things that stifled discourse on this until I think the New York Times really broke the ice. I think in 2017 when they published that, all of a sudden serious people who were unwilling

to talk about UFOs before just for the ridicule. Now you've got the gimbal video, the go fast video, you've got fighter pilots, Commander David Fravor, you've got these people discussing these things openly and like, okay, this seems like something that a serious person can discuss now and so then it's open but Actually meeting one and talking to it's like the Virginia story Like when I told people the the cop picked it up and carried in the car and the cop died and handled it some horrible bacterial infection that they couldn't cure He was rubbing himself down with rubbing alcohol according to his family. He was like greasy stuff on my brain

He was rubbing himself down and he had to stench smell grease Yeah, and then I interviewed the doctors There's a couple of actually going back to Brazil next month There were a couple of forensic pathologists that are willing to come forward that we're gonna cover Kind of update the movie and we release so it's an ongoing investigation Wouldn't that be the best protection from an alien planet's bacteria if you had the most vicious bacteria on the surface of your skin right like imagine like if you go to another planet and the way to mitigate the effects of viruses and

bacteria on that planet is to have skin fluid that's like unbelievable toxic anything that comes near you just gets cooked. Yeah, like a skunk, right? Have you ever had a skunk? Oh, yeah, I had a skunk got my dog once I I Check out this guy's garbage one time and he's like hey, it's in my garage He flipped up the thing and drop it in there. So I like I was like kind of hungover I was we had a party the night before and I Went out to the garbage can and I kind of heard like some rustling in the garbage can but I didn't really think anything of it and I like lifted up the thing

and then I heard some rustling again so I reached over and I put my head down inside and the skunk just turned and got me right in the face. Now, I held my breath. I held my breath and I closed my eyes at the last second and it went right through me. It penetrated my molecules. It was so powerful that it was paralyzing. Absolutely paralyzing. Can you

imagine? Just a smell, that's their way of defense. It's just this stench that just goes through your body, like just paralyzes you. That's crazy. Anyway, it was really... You got it in the mug, huh? I got it right in the face. Wow. How long did it take before you didn't stink? Because you smoked normal now. Probably two weeks. No, I was just wondering, like how long did that wait? It was was several weeks yeah, and I tried that I tried the tomato and I tried baking soda I think they have the special soap now. Yeah, just for skunks. I when my dog got zapped. Oh, she got zapped in like 1980 I think it was 1980 because I was living in Jamaica Plain and she went out in the backyard and I think she thought that it was our cat because we had a cat that was black and white and she just ran right up to that skunk and it took her right in the side of her body.

Like she tried to turn away but it got her all over her body. She was wet with skunk spit. It was so nasty. I had to take her inside and I had to do it because she was my dog 13 I had to like cover her with tomato juice and wash her down and she still stunk well how stunk it's so funny because I was getting ready for a road trip this couple years ago and And I looked over and I was like did we did we walk Duke? It was like 9 o'clock at night We're exhausted. We packed everything up. They had the car ready to go for the next morning, and it's like, do we walk Duke? Do you want to take Duke our dog? So we're like, it's 9 o'clock, I'll

just let him outside. And I hear him like, no! And then he goes, and I thought, oh my god, he just got eaten. Somebody just ate him. I was like, oh my gosh. I ran out there to look for him and he comes running running in he jumps in bed covered in skull Like it was so so strong It's unbelievable. That smell is just like it's so incredible And the way someone explains to me, you know, like animals like bloodhounds and bears and they have the insane sense of smell God like a hundred thousand times stronger than ours, right? but they can pick up parts per million the way we pick up

skunk Really? Yeah. Oh my god think about that. So if a skunk gets hit by a car like a mile away, you can smell it Have you ever driven? It's a mile. I can drive over it into my car smells like yeah If you're in the but if you're in the neighborhood where a skunk got something you could smell it Yeah But if you're in the neighborhood where a skunk got something, you could smell it. For some strange reason, it permeates. It carries more than any other smell. With dogs, that's how they smell everything.

They're like, oh, Ross goes home. They can smell things that you can't even imagine they could smell, especially like a bloodhound. And then a bear can smell. What is a bear's ability to smell above a bloodhound? It's something crazy crazy my friend was sharks in the in the ocean can sense blood for miles away miles miles incredible insane miles away they could smell blood miles away guys something I remember look at this 300 times but look

at this this is crazy bears are sent the best sense of smell of any animal on earth for example average Dog sense of smell is 100 times better than humans a bloodhound is 300 times better a bear sense of smell is seven times Then a bloodhound or two thousand one hundred times better than a human's Unbelievable why they say when you go camping put your food up in a tree or something 100% you have to you can't have a tent at all Oh when I was a kid we went camping and the bear broke open our cooler. Wow Yeah, people just had regular coolers, but you'd have like a little cookie in your pocket and be in bed I mean you're gonna have you're gonna have an issue. Oh a hundred percent. Yeah, wow a hundred percent I remember when I was a kid I went camping and they were like don't have any food

I was like, yeah, whatever like that. No,, no, put that stuff. They were really adamant. I was like, why are these guys making such a fuss? The bear's not gonna smell a cookie in my pocket. Like, of course they will. They'll look at that like a wonton. Like, look at that soft outer layer and there's meat inside of it. They're gonna look at that tent,

like, look, it's trapped in there. The meat is trapped in the tent. This is crazy. What was that one movie called where they got the Grizzly man or something? Yeah grizzly man, that's when they came and got him. They were they well It's not even one with the Grizzlies and then he got eaten. That's a very complicated movie. That's a Werner Herzog film Yeah, one of her saw yes

It's a really funny camera was rolling and they played it sort of the camera was rolling but the lens cap was on so there Was an audio so it's just audio. Yeah, that's even worse The audio by the way, the audio you hear on the internet. That's fake Oh, that's not the real one the real audio Werner Herzog told the lady to destroy it Destroy it. No one should hear the he heard it. Yeah, he heard it. It's long, you know, because bears don't kill you They eat you you know like a salmon. They don't kill salmon They just put their paw down and start pulling chunks off of it. That's what they do with people too. That's terrifying Is that well? They don't have any predators so they don't have to kill things and then you know worry about someone taking it from them

You know shit from a bear especially grizzly bear. You're not taking shit from a bear unless you're a bigger bear So like all the other animals have to worry like mountain lions kill quick because wolves will steal from mountain lines and apparently in the areas where wolves have been introduced It's actually become a problem because mountain lions are killing much more than they normally do Because mountain lions will kill like a deer or two deer a week something like that and eat the thing. Yeah Yeah, that's a lot of meat. Well, they're big You know a big mountain lion is you know 150 pounds There it's a big cat their cats are just they're obligate predators. All they eat is meat

You know bears lead a little berries. They'll eat a bunch of shit not cats. So the cats are Killing more because the wolves scare the cats off of the kill So if the cat's on a kill and a bunch of wolves show up the cow will just get the fuck out of there like fuck Why cuz he to fill is I didn't want to have to fend himself against the wolves exactly because wolves hunting packs So there might be 13 14 wolves and one cat the cat will just get the fuck out of there cats run from dogs Right like they have a fear of like canines, and I think it's from wolves stealing their food. So that's how they hunt cats. The way they hunt them, you have to tree them because otherwise you're not going to find

them. If you find a mountain lion, you have to get the dogs to bark them up a tree. So they run up a tree and then they shoot them when they're in a tree. It sounds cruel, but listen, they have to do that to manage the populations. If they don't, they start eating dogs. They start That's what you get in San Francisco California still kills mountain lions They'll kill they kill as many mountain lions as they would if they gave tags out to people to kill them

Because you have to kill certain numbers of them for depredation because they'll start killing livestock. They're still killing dogs in the Bay Area they with the problem cats that they wound up killing in like San Francisco. Yeah Half their diet was pets really half their diet half their diet was house Caps out people's cats dogs and cats that's half their diet half of their diet So you manage, you know a hundred plus pound cat and he's running around just eating dogs You leave your dog in your backyard gone Happens all the time. Wow, it happened to my dog. Really? Yeah, my dog in Colorado got eaten by a mountain lion It happens. Oh god. I feel so bad for my little guy. It's terrible not there to protect my little feller

You know one time I was I was hiking up this mountain And I had my son with me at the time and he was in that little pouch You know, one time I was hiking up this mountain and I had my son with me at the time and he was in that little pouch, you know, that little pouch that you put in the front. Like, he was like, probably like maybe two, two and a half. And I was hiking this mountain pretty daily. It's funny actually, because when I went up there

without him, I was like, well, this is why people hike with weights on, this feels amazing. I could run up this mountain. But anyway, I was going up the mountain and I had my dog, my little Duke, and I had my son walking up this mountain and I come around this like good left hand, it's a pretty exposed, not too many trees, some bushes, and it's a hot sunny day and I see this leg of a deer like just fresh kill with blood on the ground. I was like, God damn, what the hell's, the hell looked, wow, that's fresh.

I was like, huh. I kind of keep going and come around the corner and there's a long straightaway, the hill goes up like this. And I see what looks like a big, like, greyhound dog, kind of like brown, kind of walking kind of back and forth like this with a tail. And I was like, man, who the hell's greyhound

is doing out here? Like, what what the hell is that's a mountain lion I was like holy shit and the mountain lion turns around and looked at me and I had my kid I was like shit I so I grabbed my dog and I turned around and I started running and I knew that I shouldn't be running So I'm running going I shouldn't be running. I shouldn't be running I know I should be running but I wanted to get get around the corner and get out of its light line of sight. And then I go, I go, well, if he comes up on me, I'm gonna have to throw my dog. I was like, I looked at Duke and I said, if it comes down to it, Duke, you're gonna have

to take one for the team. Oh my God, that's a horrible choice. It was a horrible choice, but I had my son. Of course. But I remember looking at him. But I remember my dog too, and I was like looking at my dog going oh, man This is a horrible decision to make but if it comes down to it, I'm gonna have to sacrifice you buddy I love you, you know, but it didn't come down to it, but I remember running going you're an idiot James Why you're already not supposed to be running? You can't run. Well, that's the problem with mountain bikers

They get got because when they pass by a cat, it's almost like rolling a ball of yarn past a kitten They are predators and they will they'll catch bikes, huh? Oh, yeah, they get people on bikes Yeah, that's happened a few times. They get people on bikes. They get joggers people on bikes They think you're running away from them. Could you tell me what it was like to be running for your life? Having something like that chase you? Yeah, I can. I mean, it hasn't happened to me, but I've seen them. I've seen three of them in my lifetime, only one of them that scared the shit out of me.

I saw one in Colorado. I saw one in Montecito, like the Santa Barbara area. It was small. Those are small ones. They were like 50, 60 pounds. And then I saw one with a buddy of mine, my friend Colton and I, we spotted one under a tree that was 30 yards away, and we were in a truck, and it made me shit my pants.

Wow, that was big. It was so big. This one was really big. This was a mature male with a big pumpkin head and huge forearms, like a fucking bodybuilder. It was freaky. It was freaky to see because, you know, it was, first of all, it was dusk. So the Sun was going

down and the lights of the truck even though it wasn't quite dark yet the lights of the truck were making his eyes glow oh my god and you can see him with the naked eye but then I put my binoculars on and so I've got these 10 power binoculars and I'm zoomed in on this thing's face I'm like holy looks like he belongs in Africa well he belonged right where he was and we didn't belong there Let me tell you a really cool story. That's a UFO the best UFO picture I think has ever taken Yes, he's no no, no, we're gonna look for it

Okay, so can you find the program trailer on on here at all or yeah for sure. All right find the program trailer I'm gonna tell you about this. So yeah, just it yet is this is what's true i was watching story exposing the secret government program investigating ufos story was kind of a catalyst for a lot of things that have happened since members of congress start to ask questions instruments report there is something there are flight characteristics we can't explain.

UAPs are unexplained. It's true. They need to be investigated. Here we are having a hearing where just a few years ago, we didn't even acknowledge that these things were real. Do you believe that our government is in possession of UAPs? Absolutely based on interviewing over 40 witnesses over four years. based on interviewing over 40 witnesses over four years. You're telling me people have come forward claiming firsthand knowledge of craft of non-human origin. That's correct. We have sources who have asserted not only

that there have been crashes, but there have been crash retrievals. Do we have the bodies of the pilots who piloted this craft? Biologics came with some of these recoveries, yeah. Were they human or non-human? Non-human. I'm sitting here today because the American people are being lied to. We are the American government and we are open and we're going to be open about this.

What has been revealed, non-human intelligence exists, non-human intelligence has been interacting with humanity. It's only part of the story. The pressure's on. Pentagon and the CIA are going to have to answer the mail. Some are risking everything. Have you had incidences that have caused you to be in fear for your life? Yes, personally.

To uncover the rest. What is being done to verify the assertion that the US government has spaceships of non-human intelligence in their possession? That kind of revelation unearths people's beliefs. I would go to jail to say things that I've been exposed to in the program. Bro, is that Mick Jagger? Was that other guy Mick Jagger? Is it the amazing? That's how put off how put off. Oh, yeah. I know

Like Mick Jagger, that's not Gary McKinnon Biggest computer hacker in history. Let me see what he looks like. He almost went to jail for life Because he was like I'm gonna find out what the government knows about UFOs. So he hacked into the systems NSA CIA DIA like Where is he? Yeah, you want to see that really cool picture the foot no in the film. Yeah, you're gonna go towards the end Yeah, no, he's totally looks like You should say that because I totally thought I saw it. I'm like, wait a minute. That does look like a rock star He is a rock star in the UFO community It's coming up. You'll have to you'll have to pause it quickly when it when it hits

But Gary McKinnon took it upon himself a computer hacker to find out if the government had proof of alien visitation and he spent a couple years hacking systems and he found and he got pay dirt That was it bro that's in the UFOs you should just like only show that clip you know like they do in horror movies where the mask is not that good it's real quick yeah but so well I was gonna tell you there's a photograph of a jet circulating can I can I go in a little bit of detail because everyone's always worried about like where's the good evidence? Where's the good photograph? Show me that photograph again.

So it's, yeah, there we go. This was a lost photograph that was recovered, correct? Yeah, yeah, you know about this? Yeah, I know about this. Okay, so I heard about this in the late 90s. Tell everybody about it. Okay, so there was a guy, Nick Pope, who investigated, he was part of the UFO desk,

at the Ministry of Defense of England in the late 90s. Mid to late 90s, maybe in as late as early 2000s. But in any case, and I was in fact I was interviewing him for a number of my films. I did a film called Out of the Blue, I Know What I Saw, before I did The Phenomenon, and I asked him like, hey man you were a part of the UFO desk at the M.O.D. What was the best case you ever saw? And he goes, oh man 1990 he didn't give me this the town it was calvine, but he said Scotland there were two poachers They called them hikers, but they were actually poaching and so maybe think about this We talked about animals earlier and he said it was it was late in the afternoon

They were in a place. I now know it's called calvine and they came upon in this relatively remote area, I know because I hiked out to the exact spot and it's in the movie, but and they came upon this diamond-shaped or disc-shaped object that was quite large that was hovering silently really close, I mean close, and they were scared to death and they were kind of hiding out underneath this tree and they're looking at this thing and what the, are we looking at? And they're looking at this thing as it's silently

hovering. Remember this is 1990, okay? And one of them had a camera and just as he was considering taking his camera out, a military jet came in. Turns out it was one of those Harrier jets, they think it was a Harrier jet, and it came out into the scene and it flew all the way around the disk. And as it did so, the guy mustered up the courage, came out from under the tree, and he snapped five or six photographs of this object suspended in the air and it went so the disc is here and the plane is flying around us click click click click click click and the reason why I know this is because the individual who kept one of the prints thank you very

much Craig Lindsay RAF press officer and thank you David Clark for uncovering this because it's the most amazing picture ever and the two hotel workers in just outside the town of Calvine Scotland came back and they were like telling their co-workers oh my god we encountered this thing we don't know what was so they go to the local newspaper and they were like hey man we just filmed something in the sky we got six prints of it they it of it. It was 35 millimeter film footage, right? And they're gonna go public with their story. Two witnesses, broad daylight, a UFO, points of reference, with a military jet flying around, five or six prints.

That's pretty solid evidence, right? So the local newspaper was like, they're about to go public with it, print the story, and they were like, well, we need a statement from the RAF. So they contact the press officer, Craig Lindsay, and they were like, hey, what do you make of this UFO these guys took? And the guy, Craig Lindsay, goes, I don't know what you're talking about. I haven't seen the picture. You haven't seen it? Well, let me send you a print. This is the newspaper. Sends him a print, big print like this, the one you see today, and he's like, holy shit, the hell is this? He's an RAF press officer, Craig Lindsay. So he starts getting in touch with the MOD and he goes out and he investigate this, go talk to the witnesses,

talk to the witnesses, and they were telling him. telling him and he goes well they tell him what happened and he goes well what kind of noise did it make they say it didn't make any noise no he goes no noise that's impossible you know an object that can hover like that in the sky for that period of time as we're talking 34 years ago didn't make any noise and the witness said no so he was he was like, holy sh- this is crazy. So he takes a color Xerox machine and he sends it to the MOD in London and he says, hey, there's a case that you might want to check, you know, you might want to look into and here's a Xerox, which is really crappy. It's just a scanned Xerox, like a fax machine over to MOD.

He said he went from the office where the Xerox machine was and before he can get back to his office his phone is ringing off the hook, MOD. And the MOD basically stepped in, took over the investigation. They said you can step down to Craig Lindsay. He steps down, he keeps the print, right? He steps down, they take over, witnesses gone, five or six prints gone, story killed, right? So, 30, and we rumored about it because Nick Pope had talked about this case in a book he wrote called Open Skies, Closed Minds. And then I talked to him about it in late 90s, then I talked to him about it again in the early 2000s, and I was like, Nick I was like tell me about this photograph. He's like I was incredible We had a big poster of it on the wall the M.o.d. And I was like well. Where is it?

He goes well. I don't know I stepped down I'm no longer that at the UFO desk, and I said well They didn't just throw that away once you get in touch with the people that were there and find out He's like oh, you know James. I can't just make those inquiries that we we killed the story It was like you know so I was incredibly frustrated so so discreetly for over a 20-year period I was making inquiries because I don't like letting things go, right? It was like this picture exists and bloody hell. Let's get this one out there, but The story went dark

so David Clark found Craig Lindsay and the way he found Craig Lindsay the guy that kept one of the prints is that he got a he got a declassified government document out of the MOD's office that had redactions on it. And one of the things it said was, it was 1990, and they said, a RAF press officer in Scotland, blacked out, you know, said that blah blah blah blah blah, and he's like, huh, who was the RAF press officer in 1990 in Scotland? Craig Lindsey. Boom, contacts Craig Lindsay. They started communication going. And then after like... So much for redaction.

Yeah, so much for redactions, right? And so this whole dialogue starts going and they're developing a... And then he goes, well, gosh, I might, I guess I might have one. It turns out he ended up keeping one of those prints, which he had. And that story broke probably two years ago. David Clark, again, I can't thank you enough. You deserve accolades for this. And so I flew to England.

I met with David Clark and his crew, people that did the analysis work. Then I went up to Scotland. I met with Craig Lindsay, the art press officer. Gave me the first and only on-camera interview about it, what astonished him about it, the analysis work that did on it, what the witnesses said, but we didn't have the witnesses,

the people that took the photograph. We didn't have them, but I was gonna report on this anyway, just because, wow, this is the picture that we've all been waiting for. This picture's phenomenal. But if you don't have provenance and you don't have the background story on it, it could be AI, it could be right, it could be a hoax. Some people call it a reflection not a reflection not a hoax. So

I'm ending production of the program and I get a text from David Clark and he goes something big is about to happen and I said what he goes just sit tight I can't go public right now, but something big's gonna happen There's a there's a new development and this is just teases. Well, I can't go public right now, but something big's gonna happen. There's a new development. And this is just... He teases. Well, I'm coming out with it, I promise. But he teased you. He did tease me.

I hate it. He did tease me, but I was like, well, I'm almost done with the movie, and if this is something I can include in the movie about the case, please let me know. So long story short, this guy Richard Greaves, who was one of the hotel cooks, worked in the kitchen with the photographers, with the two witnesses that took the photograph. And Richard Greaves came forward on print, but I contacted David Clark, I was like, Hey, can you get me an interview with this guy? So he kept putting it off, putting it off, putting it off. And then finally, I was like, I didn't want to be, I wanted

to be persistent, but I didn't want to annoy the guy to the point where he's like Hey, you know what you like, right? You're being annoying, you know Yeah, but I got it right up to that point, right? When I was like I was rapping the movie the movie's done and I want to get this movie out all the people that participated Wanted it out and then I finally sent him one final text I was like, look, I'm really sorry to pastor you and I know you're probably really busy and I really appreciate the fact that You even said that you'll meet with me, but that you'll give me an interview.

And then probably about 10 o'clock that night, I'm in the edit room buttoning the film up, and all of a sudden I get a phone call, and he's like, I've just come out the pub, I'm ready to go. I was like, okay, grab a camera, roll it, let's record this. And he reveals that he knew the witnesses, he worked with them in the kitchen, he gave all the specifics, he provided their names, and then he said that two or three nights after, two or three nights, four nights after they took that photograph, they were all on a cigarette break at the hotel early evening, pissing rain, he said a car rolled up, there

were three guys in it, a driver and two men in suits in the back They roll up they come out. They say cigarette breaks over they pull the two witnesses aside and they Grill him and you got to hear it directly from the horseman Richard Greaves said that when they were all the people that were not involved with the incident We're told to go back inside the hotel was they did but they looked through the window and they saw, in the pissing rain, he said they were out there for 10 or 15 minutes in the pissing rain, and that these guys, they came back inside and they were white as a, he said, he literally goes, they came back inside and they were white as a fucking ghost! And, which we all get a good laugh out of, but, and then

they started drinking heavily, and within a couple of weeks They vanished without a trace and they've been gone ever since so we report on this and yeah, that's a that's a replica That's a replica. I say it's way too clear That's a replica from Nick Pope that he did it for some series talking about it and that was before The real photograph was found and print. Let's see the real photograph again. Yeah, show the real photograph again. I got it in, there it is, yep. Okay, so what was he doing?

Show the fake one one more time. Yeah, that's what's in the recreation before it leaked out. So was he just recreating what he remembered? Yes. Let me see the real one again. It's pretty damn good, isn't it, that he remembered that? Not bad, not bad. Missed the barbed wire fence, but not mad.

That put in a bunch of bullshit background. I went to the exact location, that bottom. Look at all wire fence, but not mad. Put in a bunch of bullshit background. I went to the exact location that- All the bullshit he put in there. Put in beautiful hills. I know. And that fence is still there. There was a- Go back through it? Yeah, that fence is still there. I took an actual, I took a modern- So what is that jet in the background? Harrier J- a Harrier jet is what I'm told. They're 99% sure.

And was that Harrier jet trying to figure out what this was? Well, like I said in the other prints, according to Craig Lindsay, the RAF press officer, he said the other six prints or five prints had that Harrier jet in a different position. So he said it was Zipf, the Harrier jet flew around checking that out. Now where are those other prints? We have other MOD just ever gone. They killed the story. I mean, the guy at the mod who worked there nick

pope told me that they did everything they could to squash it because don't you think they probably have it filed away somewhere of course they do of course they didn't throw those pictures away they can you zoom in on this jimmy please yeah that's a really crap copy you're looking at a really bad prank you guys can you zoom it i've got a much better that's as much as i've got a much better version of it. You got it on your phone? I do. Text it to a homie. This image is weird. It's hard to see what you're looking at. Let me show you a much better copy of it.

Hang on, let me just scroll up here because I've got a really good, I got the original print of this copy. People talk about, you know, the more compelling data and the links. So this is the photograph that I took at the site. You can get an idea of that. Okay. See how similar, right?

Looks exactly the same. Yep, and then here is, here's the print. And I could text that to you guys if you want. Yeah, text that to me. I'll text it to you guys. I'll text it to you guys. Send both of them. It's very interesting.

Very interesting case. I mean, again, I think it's one of the best photographic cases, because you're not dealing with just a UFO. You've got a military jet in the background. And if you have a date and a location, guess what? That pilot's still out there. That pilot can probably got it on radar

and probably got gun camp for it. If he's still alive. If, well, he would have been probably young, right? Pilots are young. Sure. He would have been in his 30s or maybe early 40s and that was 34 years ago. So chances are he's still alive. They're pretty fit, right?

Yeah, maybe he's in the 70s. Okay, I'm gonna text this to you right now here we go boom you should have that did I get you all did I get all of them to you and here is a picture of Craig Lindsay this is great you're gonna love this okay this is this is the guy that kept it I didn't get it yet you didn't know I wonder if it's because I have my phone on airplane mode Yeah, take it off airplane. Oh, bro. I told you okay. Oh you did. I was trying to explain to you. Oh, sorry, okay It's off now. I'm sorry. Otherwise it won't actually send it. Oh, it won't okay. All right here we go here We go. I like deal with my dad. I know I'm so bad. I know you were telling me how to do it

I was like I haven't done that before it's funny people that don't understand how to use their tell me if that goes through Okay I was like I haven't done that before it's funny people that don't understand how to use our tell me if that goes through Great great sure you need me to send it here you do it Here there's that one and there's flipped it left to right on it But you know it just goes to show the links that the Intel community, the Ministry of Defense, the DoD go to hide the more compelling photographic data because it's so easy to complain like oh well if they were real there would be good Well, there are some really good prints Bro you got Joe Exotic in your phone

I got him You guys are looking at other stuff I found drones that you can I don't know that they're commercially available You know the ones you wanted, but you can have a drone up for 24 plus. I didn't send it to me either Are you serious? Yeah, so weird am I sending to the wrong telephone number? Let me see your number The number you have okay. Well. I have it. I definitely have it on signal here. You do it Here fuck it you take over you drive Because I'm clearly failing at this one

Oh, I can totally imagine that this is a separate I found some drones that this these companies Say that you can take off anywhere. They're showing them taking off from like small platforms in the ocean They can stay up in the air for 14 plus hours They're small and they do have propellers. I will say that mmm. Yeah, and like I said, I mean small platforms in the ocean. They can stay up in the air for 14 plus hours. They're small and they do have propellers, I will say that. Yeah, and like I said, it's not the question is, are all these drones explainable by aliens? And the answer obviously is no.

The question is, are any of these bona fide UAP? And there's definitely some evidence to suggest that's the case, but again, there's always misidentification of more conventional stuff, right? And there's always, and then there's a stubborn core percent. Like I'll give you an example. This is something that I've discussed a little bit recently. Did you find it okay? Yes.

Okay, good. Finally we got that enigma worked out. Yeah, it's just your 5G is very slow. Oh, really? Yeah you're using AT&T. Oh I'm using Verizon. Verizon? Yeah really? Yeah it's just real slow. Do I have what's it called? I accidentally sent myself these other ones of the guy holding it up too. Oh cool yeah that's cool that's that's Craig Lindsey. So I'll send this to you Jamie. So let me tell you a little story that's pretty cool, which I never thought that this would

happen. There's a guy, Kirk McConnell, who's Senate Armed Service Committee, and he participated the very last minute in my film. He's in the trailer. And he, in an official capacity with a high-level clearance, he had been investigating UFOs ever since the New York Times article in 2017. So he was behind the scenes 2017, 2018, tailing the 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021,

2022, 2023, 2024, and then he stepped down. And he came through some intel folks, we got in touch and I said, hey man, my film's almost done, if you want I could squeeze in one final interview. He decided to participate. Up he went, we became friends, we've been talking. And he said, hey, I could probably arrange a meeting

because there's some mutual interest in some UFO cases and evidence that I've been going after as a civilian. But he goes, hey, on the inside, if you want, I can hook you up with the heads of arrow, the new heads of arrow, John Kosklawski, and this other guy, Ryan it was our Air Force Office special investigations this just a couple weeks ago so I went to the congressional

hearings which was incredible and people say oh it's a big nothing burger but you know what it's very exciting seeing people testifying to oath there's a there's a crash retrieval program seen an arrear Admiral Tim Gallaudet saying that they're under the water I mean it's pretty fascinating stuff. So I had to apply for a security background on me which was about 48 hours and then I got approval for that and then I showed up at a wing across the street from the Pentagon and I had to go through the metal detector and then there are these kind of exciting for me because I had never had this kind of experience before there are these like glass tube type things that were lined up like in a row and I

Only one person go in at a time the doors open just like in Star Trek and you walk in and that door closes The other one opens you go to the other side Then I had to get rid of my phone and everything and leave it outside and then I go into a skiff Which is a sensitive compartmented information facility. The skiff's all super top secret, whatever. And I got to meet with the new head of arrow, John Kostelowski. I was like, I can't believe I'm in the belly of the beast. This is crazy. Like, I didn't, how could I? I'm a civilian. I don't, I don't belong here. But we started talking. Just very nonchalantly. You know, I said hey

You guys got to throw us a bone I said, you know, we're not going away The story is not going away And I said, you know, and you know what we're ultimately dealing with I mean obviously the vast majority of UAP or UFOs can be and have been explained away in down-to-earth conventional terms Right, but there's a stubborn core 15-20% that really defy conventional explanation, not because of a lack of data, because they truly can't explain what these things do. And you know well, you've had many people on these objects exhibited technology that's just light years advanced from anything that we have. I mean, this is, and

it's been well documented since the 1940s and possibly some people would say way before that, but modern- day UFO wave, no question. So there's two stories. One is someone's been in possession of this revolutionary technology for 85 plus years and kept it secret or two, we're not alone, right? Right. NHI. So I said to the gentleman, very candidly, we're probably dealing with a small percentage

of NHI and what's the plan to tell the general public? And this is just a couple weeks ago. And he looked at me and he goes, James, I can't part my hair without approval from the DOD. And you can quote me on that. And that was him, in my opinion, telling me, hey, this is structured in a way that's that I'm my hands are tied. I can I can uncover all the things in the world, but I can't tell the general public or even Congress without the DOD approving it first. Yeah, so that's what's kind of happening right now. And one of the reasons why we were so fortunate to get the number of of, I say whistleblowers

or potential whistleblowers or people to come forward in the program is because they were super frustrated with the previous head of A head of error which is guy named Sean Kirkpatrick, which basically just kind of blanket You know denied pretty much almost almost everything and people were extremely disappointed with that, but just like blue book Yeah, kind of like blue book. Yeah, I've always done that right yeah, but but again He put not everybody's doing it not everybody. Right. There's a bunch of, well, I think now also with the internet, there's ways to get information out that's much quicker and cleaner.

No question. Than trusting a reporter. Yeah. And then your life's in danger, and the reporter gets threatened. Yeah, now things just kind of get out. So I've thought about this. I'm going back to Brazil, and I thought,

I'm obviously going after, you know, like additional eyewitness testimony. I'm going after the photographic stuff and those of you out there that are like tired of hearing about it, well, I spent 20 plus years in search of the photograph that I featured just now, that one with the background story on it, provenance, that sort of thing.

Jamie, go look at the one that I sent you. It's a better version of it. Yeah, and so I just, just because you can't, after a year or two, haven't successfully obtained stuff. So this is a better version of it. Yeah, it's a better version that you can see the granular of the film footage. It's weird, it almost looks like there's something

in the back. It does look a little bit like that. Like a little propeller or something, like a Jetsons type thing. But let's just say. Nothing was silent supposedly silent according to the witnesses that didn't make any sound and hover there for an extended period of time but when it took off it took off straight vertical like

this straight up fast it started going fast faster faster faster and then was gone yep that was that was Craig Leslie who interviewed the witnesses who told me that and it's so weird though according to Richard Greaves in Scotland, the Americans got involved. Of course, we get involved in everything. Yep, they showed up and they intimidated the shit out of the witnesses. And I know people can criticize me for reporting on these alleged men in black, but it's not me saying it, it's the witnesses that are saying it. And I did it full bore for the first time, full bore for the first time in Moment of Contact because I remember hearing these stories for decades and I finally was like everyone's gonna think I'm crazy if I

report on this but this lady who was the mother of the two daughters that saw had these visits and intimidation and I was like screw it I'm just gonna report on this and I'll just take the criticism you know and then I wasn't expecting this for the to be the Case with this photograph, but it lo and behold it was but um Anyway, it's it's a huge story In my opinion they can't put the genie back in the bottle it's coming out and it's drip drip drip But I have to remind your audience people that are feeling impatient that we've had three open congressional hearings in the last three years

Yeah, we hadn't had any in over 50 years prior to that. It's definitely Even though it's still difficult to get information and figure out what's actually going on There's way more open mainstream discussion of it And it's frustrating at times. I get it, you know, like oh, well, why are all these people? Why can't they just say why can't David Grush just tell us? You know? Well, I can remind people that the DOD has stripped David Grush of his clearances and won't allow him to get into a skiff. This is one of the things that I talked to this guy, Brian Benner, who appears in the movie Politico, and he goes, he goes, if Congress finds out about it, one thing we know on the Hill is that you're gonna

find out about it. They can't keep a secret, it's gonna leak. So they've been doing everything they can, I'm imagining it's the DOD, to prevent Grush from going into a skiff with members of Congress to You're gonna find out about it. They can't keep a secret. It's gonna leak so they've been doing everything they can imagine It's a DOD to prevent Grush from going into a skip with members of Congress to release and reveal the Classified details necessary to verify his claims Okay, if you've been keeping this under wraps for 60 plus years or whatever they've been doing Yeah, would you really tell AOC would you really pull her aside and tell her?

Well, I mean, any members of Congress with the proper clearances and feel like they want to have that information, I mean, you got... Nothing wrong with her. I'm not insane or I'm just saying, pick a young one. Well, you're gonna give them all that information? Exactly, they don't want them to have that information.

There's no question about it. That's what I would imagine. That's probably why they won't let Grush get into a skim. So here's another thing I'd like to mention is that David Grush claims that he gave even a street address to the ICIG, which is Thomas Monheim. That's the intelligence community inspector general. So I'm asking members of Congress to support all their efforts. You know, Burchette, who's been amazing, regardless of what your politics, the guy's phenomenon. He's been really pushing for transparency He's super solid guy. You got mace you got

Muscovsky was this from from Florida Garcia from California AOC New York Luna and Then of course you got the Senate side. You got Rubio. I totally knows where this stuff is rounds Schumer and if you've got the Senate side, you've got Rubio, who totally knows where this stuff is, Rounds, Schumer. And if you look at the NDAA, you can see the language in plain sight. I mean, it's phenomenal what's going on. And I think that our elected officials that are really pushing for transparency need to hear from us, need to hear from the citizens and know that we support their efforts and

that we have their backs and continuing to push for transparency, need to hear from the citizens and know that we support their efforts and that we have their backs and Continuing to push for transparency to push to find out what the hell is going on. I mean imagine if it's true Imagine if we have spaceships and we have biologics bodies, okay. Mm-hmm. That is not just Implications for the United States that's global Implications, I mean the impacts the ripple effect that would have around the world for that confirmation to happen no doubt it would be huge. Well the human race deserves to know it shouldn't be unelected officials and Defense Department people that know

about this stuff that's crazy I totally agree unless this is what I had a conversation with Ryan Graves yesterday, the way I would argue it, if I was a military person, I would say this is a national security interest. And we are trying to back engineer this stuff, we're not successful. If China steals our data, if Russia can back engineer one before, if Iran gets one before us, we're fucked. Because these things are insanely sophisticated.

We would obviously weaponize the technology. That's obvious. Of course. Yeah, duh. It's like 101, right? Yeah, why would we not? The basics. I mean, if you could put a nuke on one of those things,

I mean, the exhibited technology that people say, people that have witnessed this stuff say it goes from a standstill to out of sight in the blink of an eye. I mean, these objects, what was it? David Fravor said it went from space? 50,000 feet above sea level to sea level in one second in one second. Yeah, that's Insane as we talked about it yesterday. Oh you did. Yeah insane amount of speed and

The way Ryan explained it in terms of like the amount of force you would need is equivalent to how many nuclear bombs that he say Something insane like the entire nuclear arsenal has to be force you would need is equivalent to how many nuclear bombs did he say? Something insane like the entire nuclear arsenal has to be to generate that kind of power. Whatever it is, if these stories are true, it's doing something that we don't understand. So if it's ours, I kind of get why they wouldn't want to spill the beans. I kind of get why they wouldn't want to spill the beans My thought once was what if this is not weaponizable with our current technology like what if these are These things are our drones, but they don't know how to put a weapon on it yet Like because whatever you do I have a problem with that a speed I have a problem with that theory and the problem I have is that the United States government has

Documented close encounters of a third kind that's a beans connected. That's their own files, right? That's not me saying it, right? So it's not just these objects exhibiting revolutionary technology for at least 80 years, right? No wings, no tail, no visible means of propulsion, the ability to hover, accelerate, out of sight in the blink of an eye, right? Angle turns at high speed, no wake, no sonic boom, that kind of stuff. But you also have reports, credible reports of beings connected to some of the craft. And that's documented all around the world. So that eliminates, right?

If it's true. So this is the whole thing, like just because something's written down somewhere doesn't mean that someone didn't write it down as a Psy-O that someone didn't write it down as a Psy Ops And dump someone did write down to discredit other people with a ridiculous story One way to discredit a credible story is to attach it to a bunch of ridiculous stories, right? So if I was gonna hide some sort of technology

One thing I would do is connect it to a bunch of kooky stuff What's your psychic stuff and remote viewing just a a bunch of things that people very easily dismiss. UFO abductions, UFO encounters, encounters with an actual being. But put a bunch of stuff in there that makes people go, what, is this real? And just enough, just enough so that you can hide the real stuff in there.

Well, I think- And again, I'm playing devil's advocate. That's all I'm doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I totally hear you. And again, I've said this earlier on the show, and I'll say it again, is like the reason why I believe David Grush, who testified, not just because he testified. Well, I believe David, but David doesn't have first-hand experience. He's talked about. But the reason, I know, I know, but the reason why I believe him is because it aligns with

my research in the field. And remember, I spent over 12 years investigating on and off with my buddy Marco Leal in Virginia, Brazil, that UFO crash case, and only found out last minute, the last time I was there, that the Americans were involved. So I was like, oh my God, the rumors are true. The Americans really are. Do you see, I obviously looked into Roswell for years. I went to Roswell the 50th anniversary. This is how the deal works, bro. You want the aid we get the UFO

We give you the aid, but if a crash you have a you fucking call us Stay out of there. Don't be carrying that dude to the hospital Leave it to us and then we'll just scoop that up and shut the fuck up What do you think about that, one of the craziest stories is that there's a building somewhere, that's an enormous building that was actually built around the UFO, because the UFO was too big to move.

Have you heard this story? Yeah, it was reported on News Nation with Ross Coulhart. Well, then it's gotta be real. Well, Ross Coulhart is a credible, you know. He seems legit, he's got an accent. He's got a great accent. He's got an Australian accent. Not quite British. We believe you if you have an accent. But it's close. You're more credible

than a New York accent. There's something about a British accent that just adds credibility to anything. There's some guy from New York. So we got this fucking car. Right. Sorry, mate. We put it over here. This thing is absolutely huge. This spaceship's so fucking big. We have built a building around it. But they talked about it. Now, here's the- What is this building? And where is it supposed to be? I don't know. Oh, you're holding it back?

No, no. You haven't investigated this? No. I have a little bit, but I don't have the same connections on that. But I'll tell you a case that I do think needs to get looked into. Oh, you're going to move us around away from this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because this is one that I-

You're going to move us away from this? Well, this is a craft, a recovery craft. He's a government agent, this guy. Yeah. Yeah, because this is what it is. Well, this is no but this is a craft Government agent this guy so trying to so there's a there's a memo in the program That was through the dobson process was released. Unfortunately, some of the names are redacted Christopher Mellon obtained it. It was from correspondence. He had with a high-level government official Back in 2020 it just got approved for release. I don't know, maybe a year ago. It's featured in the in the in the doc. And in it has the names of not just the gatekeeper but other people that names who found the gatekeeper to the Crash Retrieval Program. I'm told that

unredacted versions of that had been handed to select members of Congress and people that are investigated in an official capacity with the government. But in it they specifically mentioned a case, not crash, a landed case that have been handed to select members of Congress and people that are investigated in an official capacity with the government. But in it, they specifically mentioned a case, not crash, a landed case that happened in 1953 at Kingman, Arizona. So I had made some inquiries with aerospace folks that I'd been meeting with quietly, and I'm like,

what's this case that you guys keep talking about with the Kingman, Arizona? They're like, oh, it was like, they just landed and left. I was like, well, how do you know they landed? What do you mean landed and left? And they're like, well, the doors were open and nobody home and they walked off. I said, you mean somebody just flew this thing down,

it landed on the ground in the desert and came in Arizona in 1953. And they left the doors open and left and they're like, yep, that's pretty much what happened. So I so they left the craft there somebody just they flew it down and left a craft on the ground I was told that and I I wouldn't be repeating this if I didn't think there was some serious credibility to it But apparently is and what doesn't that align with how Diana Pasolka and Gary Nolan have started describing these things as donations well, the individual that I talked to was so funny because this individual was like, not a scratch.

And I go, not a scratch, what? Not a scratch, not a scratch on the, no, it was perfect, didn't have a scratch. I was like, oh my gosh, this sounds like somebody who's more than just heard about this, but one of the aspects of it didn't have a scratch on it So I think that's that's a case that I think that so the first hand witness said it didn't have a scratch

I don't know if it was the way they described the way the problem The way the problem I have with all this stuff, but here's the thing if you were Travis Walton. Yes. Okay. Love that guy I love that guy too fascinating. I really enjoy there's we got a bobblehead That's a Travis Walton bobblehead. Oh No way. Yes way. I got it from Travis. That's him staring at the sky Oh my gosh, when he was a young I went to the location So that is I'm interested in that because that's a firsthand witness. Yes, right. That's a guy Yes, explaining his bizarre experience. He told the same story no question for whatever 50 60 years whatever the hell

It's been 1975 whatever it was since he got abducted 50 almost 50 years so this guy Was there that was his story that I'm interested in that when I hear a guy told a guy That this is what happened, and this is how he described it. I'm like super frustrated talking to Jay Sands Yes firsthand againhand was like yeah Tell me what it was doing what it looked like yeah That's it. He thought it was an adolescent too. He didn't think that it was a full-grown one. He thought it was young Well, he's got an illustration of it in the documentary and I tell you it's it's one of the crazy I remember after imagine. Oh, I know I was like if this is true. I was like

crazy I remember after imagine I know I was like if this is true. I was like Crazy Person this is something that we didn't reveal in the documentary was really funny. He thought that this individual was suffering from frostbite or What's that when you get really cold hypothermia hypothermia? Skin had a blue tint to it So he was take he took his jacket off and he very insistently put the jacket on this individual because he was thinking this person's really really cold has been out in the desert Probably had a plane crash or whatever right and so he's putting his dad the person was kind of resistant But Jason sense that I insisted I took one layer of my jacket and I put around this Individual and that individual left with the jacket on so we jokingly I jokingly say where do you think your jacket is now?

He's like probably out there. Itm's Atari or God only knows. Or right here. Yeah, or yeah, or- This is the thing that gets me logistically. Okay, if these things are coming from the ocean, just logistically, you'd have to have a large ship. So we were talking about this with Ryan yesterday, and I was saying, like, if they had a battleship, we'd be able to see that right like 100 percent he said so it would have to be a submarine so I'm like Jesus Christ what if there

really is some sort of a civilization underwater that that has existed co-existed with us forever did you hear about the testimony by rear admiral Tim Gallaudet just recently in Congress. Is this the one where the things moving underwater 500 knots? Yes, he's reporting. Explain to people what he said. I don't have all that you can look it up. Just what you can remember. Yeah, what I can remember is basically is confirming that we have objects that are exhibiting a technology underwater that defies any conventional explanation. Things that are just virtually impossible, like so much faster than the fastest submarine or anything like that, just, and they're really big. Yeah, it's moving as if there's no resistance underwater. Yeah, and then they're moving like a fighter jet would

in the air, it's moving like that. You know, they call it transmedium or something they can do. Yes. But confirmation, I mean that's, and I actually spoke to Rear Admiral Tim Gallaudet on a couple of occasions recently, and I thanked him for coming forward to testify. And he said, you know, I felt an obligation to do so because a lot of my men, the pilots, were coming forward and I wanted to back them up. And so that's why you stepped forward and testified. Well, if you're coming here from somewhere else

And you wanted to hide in plain sight you would hide in the ocean Especially if you have the technology to like completely negate any of the effects of the the water and the pressure least explored Place on earth yeah, we can't get to it. We don't have the technology yet They know we don't they know it's really hard to get a submarine out to wherever the fuck They would just they went to the bottom of the Mariana Trench Cameron Cameron by himself. I would never do that. He's a wild boy. Yeah, that's like 35,000 feet down How far is it bizarre like that? I mean, that's those poor would you go down in a submarine by yourself? No, definitely not all no homemade one like the one those people died in

Yeah, but that was there's another thing about that case when the people went down that submarine, apparently, I guess it's the Navy, has some sort of very sophisticated underwater audio sensors, and they heard the implosion, and they knew about it like immediately. And didn't report on it. Well, I mean, I think the problem with reporting on it is that you have to report on your technology now

Ah, yes, I don't even know if this has been confirmed, but this is what I had heard methods and means or well It's also It's got to be top secret Like it's got to be one of those things where if you're gonna reveal that you heard that you have to have clearance to do It you probably have to run it up the ladder One of the reasons why we know about overhead Satellite imagery of UAP is because of Ratcliff, who was former head of ODNI.

And he came forward, and I remember, it's funny actually, because it was classified. And Christopher Mellon participated in this latest production with me because of Ratcliff revealing it on Fox News. And Ratcliff basically says, yeah, we have overhead collection satellite data of UAP that are pretty fucking far out and that yeah that that happens so

they're talking about this but getting back to your point because I know you said you were frustrated you're like oh yeah it's just another anecdotal piece of evidence a piece of testimony third party not firsthand I'm not saying I'm frustrated no no no I know I what I'm saying is I totally agree with you I'm frustrated as somebody has been chasing the story for 30 years I too want access to the better more compelling data It's why I chased after that photograph I just shared with you earlier on for as long as I did because I Hear about something I go after it, but I want to remind your audience

You can't go after something Without knowing that it exists. So you get the leads you find find, you start, we're learning more about the programs, we're learning how these programs are hidden, these WUSAPs, they're Waved Unacknowledged Special Access Programs, probably hidden somewhere in the D, I know, it sounds crazy, but least guiding, giving some guidance to where are these things and how these things are hidden,

where they might be found, we reveal there's a gentleman in the film called Navy X, and people are hidden, where they might be found. We reveal there's a gentleman in the film called Navy X and people are like, ah, it's another person testifying anonymously. Well, yes, true, but he gives us specifics on telling members of Congress where to look, to find specifics. J Wicks, what is it? And this is where to find the more compelling data. I'm going to read this because it's important that people know that. He's saying, look, I've seen it, and this is where it is. It's called, the official UAP data is kept either in SIPR, Secret Internet Protocol Router Network, or JWICS, Joint Worldwide Intelligence Communication System,

that's used by the DoD and only available in a SCIF. And a SCIF is a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility, so is it frustrating to hear that? and people criticize, oh, it's just another person. But he's saying, I've seen it. It's phenomenal. He gives descriptions of some of the stuff he saw, and he's telling members of Congress, if you have the clearances, this is where it's being kept. So those are very good specifics.

And again, I remind you guys like, okay, just be patient. This is not 100 hundred-yard dash We're running a marathon right now and I'm gonna be patient. We are we're trying to get back to what I was talking about earlier Logistically, I'm kidding if you're letting something go from the ocean. Yes, if you're flying it out of the ocean Logistically you would have to have some sort of a large craft out there That's going to house these things or it's going to launch from. If it is actually coming from the ocean.

Oh, you're saying the drones you're talking about right now. Right. Yes. So either they're ours and if there are ours, how do they hide the fact that there's a battleship out there? Is that possible? And if it's from a submarine, how do they develop a submarine that can launch 50? Car sized or SUV sized drones from yeah, that's one of the things that Christopher Mellon said to me this morning

He goes that's just that's the one element or aspect that that really is a head scratcher because but this is the question 50 50 of these things coming in off the ocean that's just confirmed right right no one's in here's the question. 50 of these things coming in off the ocean, that's just confirmed. Right, right. No one's denying that. But here's the question. Yes. Is it possible to classify the location

of a US battleship that's capable of having these things? So big, so big. How could you like? How big would it have to be to launch 50 drones? God, you're not talking, you're talking, I don't know, man. But that's a lot of drones. Especially the size they're reporting. They're talking about drones the size of an SUV.

Right, so let's imagine, let's imagine you, so when you take a ferry, how many cars can a ferry fit on it? I take a ferry all the time in Vermont, over to New York. Like a legit one, like a European ferry. 50 cars? I put, well the one that's medium legit I put

25 30 maybe 40 25. Yeah So could you think couldn't you do that with drones and couldn't you have something that's a little larger than the average ferry? So you wouldn't need a battleship. Why would they do that? Why would they do that? Residential areas, but I don't have everybody scratching their heads? All these press conferences. You're talking about the head of the gang of eight, right? Okay. But if they need to control those guys, if they are really looking for a nuke, okay? Let's imagine that this story about a Ukrainian nuke from the time when they disarmed them, there's one that's unaccounted for.

This is one of the stories that's been on the internet. I don't know if it's true. That it's unaccounted for, that they think it's headed to the United States. If you were trying to find that thing. Like a dirty bomb? Yeah, or like just a regular nuke that if you're looking for gamma rays,

like you could devise a drone that could search for that, like just a regular nuke that if you're looking for gamma rays like the you could devise a drone that could search for that and you'd fly it over an area and you wouldn't care whether people freaked out because it's more important to find this goddamn thing right so if you have this technology it's some skunkworks you can't do it from space no I don't think so I think you have to be there certain proximity within I think to pick up whatever Did you bring this up with Ryan grace? Yes, what did he say? You mean he doesn't know either? You know, he doesn't think so everybody that I trust that's the issue people in the FBI people that I'm I communicate with often

I'm like what is going on? It almost seems too sexy that the United States has that kind of ability and they're just flying these things around and that they're doing it for that specific reason to find a nuke. It's like that we have this kind of technology that we didn't, none of us are aware of, that we have these drones that can shut off when you come close to them. The lights shut off, they disappear.

They avoid tracking the RF signal, it doesn't show up. They're cool, they have some sort of cooling mechanism in them So it's difficult to see with infrared. I don't understand any of that He was saying that's above what we can do right now and saying they but they're not moving in a way necessarily That's not possible with drone technology that is mainstream But there's some aspects of the way they move and what they're doing that doesn't lead them to believe that this is Current state-of-the-art technology. There's no yeah They even even I had some and tell people tell me like even if it's conventional, it's highly advanced conventional, right?

But let's look at China like China has highly advanced drones. Yeah, they're drunk They're whole we were talking about this as well that the bottleneck in America was the FAA The FAA put a lot of restrictions on the manufacturer of drones and how you can do them, what you can do. China doesn't have any of that, so they're full steam ahead with innovation. If you look at what drone manufacturers in the United States have been able to do and then imagine untethered if they weren't fucked over by all these regulations that got in the way of innovation. Why would they?

Obviously you have to have one because if you have some commercial drone that someone can buy that can move 500 miles an hour and fly through the air and stay up there for six hours at a time and film video of everything and anything, and you can't control it, you can't block the radar screen, you can't find it with infrared, that's pretty nuts. So I would imagine that would not be a thing that they would want in the hands of the average American person But why did it just start happening fairly recently when I say this I'm saying if it's Chinese If it's Chinese if they if they're unburdened by our regulations and not only do they have the help of the government they have Financing behind them. They have an imperative They're told what to do.

They're flying it over Langley, they're flying it over... Wouldn't you do that? Just to fuck with these people? What's the golf course that Trump has? Yeah, his golf course. What's that called? I don't know. Westminster, Bedminster, something like that?

Yeah, something like Bedminster. They're flying over that? Yeah. The President-elect? Langley Air Force Base did experience incursions of unauthorized unbanned aerial systems in last year December 2023 says Sabrina Singh Pentagon spokeswoman the number of those UAS incursions did fluctuate But they didn't appear to exhibit any hostile intent. It's something that we have kept our eye on well Thank God you're keeping your eye on it. Yeah, we have no idea what they are, but they they're fine

I'm worried about this has been happening. This is the third year in a row this has been happening right around Christmas time. One of the reasons why I wanted you guys to hear that account by the guy at Vandenberg Air Force Base, this is not an anonymous reporting, the guy's giving his name and he's talking about objects that are the size of a football field, yeah, hovering over a silo, launch control area. That's also the Phoenix Lights, they describe them as size of a football field, hopping over a silo, launch control area. That's also the Phoenix Lights. They describe them as size of a football field or larger. Oh, yeah. I interviewed a guy.

There was a case that happened right here in Texas, Stephen ville. Ricky Sorrell is one of the best witnesses. I love the guy. He was a hunter. And he's like, James, you could have landed an airplane on this. I said, you've got to be kidding me.

He goes, no, man. He goes, I stood under this thing. He goes, it was so big, I was standing under it and he had his rifle and he's standing under it and he's looking up and he's looking to the left, he's looking to the left, right, back, forward, can't see the edge of it in any direction. So he grabs his hunting rifle,

cause he was hunting, dear, this is 2008. Grabs his hunting rifle. Please don't tell me he shot it. No, well, so he holds his hunting rifle, his rifle up was hunting dear this is 2008. Grabs his hunting rifle. Please don't tell me he shot it. No well so he holds his hunting rifle his rifle up and he's looking through the scope and he goes James I'm a metal worker I work with metal I know what metal looks like and he's looking through the scope and he goes man there's no rivets there's no seams there's no weld marks he's like there are these on the belly of it there were these reverse like recessed cones it's like bigger and then they got smaller

as it went up into the belly of the craft. He's looking up at it and his fingers on the trigger and he's like, man, I wonder, wasn't that how you go? I wonder what would happen if I just pulled the trigger here and I bet it would ricochet off or hit the belly or something. So he's looking at it and he's just about to pull the trigger to check it out and he goes,

hmm, maybe this isn't such a good idea. I interviewed him in 2008 when this is going down and then about a year later I was doing some follow-up interviews for a film I did I know what I saw and I had this gentleman walk up to me and I was filming in the downtown square in Stephenville or it might have been Dublin and this gentleman looks at me and he goes, you Mr. Fox? Yes. And he pulls out a badge and he shows me his badge. And he's like, can I talk to you for a minute?

I'm officer of so and so. And I was like, Jesus Christ, what the hell did I do? And I say, yeah, sure. And we walk off to a cafe and he goes, he's looking at the head is back. He had his back to the wall of the cafe so he could see everybody coming in. He was really paranoid.

And he said, you know Ricky Sorrells? I said, yeah. And he goes, that guy's telling the truth. I said, how do you know? He goes, because the whole police department saw it. I can't remember if it was Dublin Police Department or Stephenville, I think it was Dublin. Stephen Police Department, he goes,

yeah, he said we were sitting over there with our patrol cars and this object was like a floating department storm. It was absolutely colossal, like a city city took out my radar gun pointed at it And it was doing 22 miles an hour And then he said it drifted off and they one of the officers I don't remember the name of the gentleman took his gun His sorry his dashcam and he flipped it up and he filmed it and apparently with one of the biggest mistakes He this individual made this police officer made was it he didn't make a copy of it because the local Air Force base requested that film footage and got it. And so I've been telling people to go after

that stuff exists. But my point is this object was so big, people claimed the witnesses, the firsthand witnesses said you had landed an airplane on it. Yeah. I mean, what is that? What is that? What happens if you see that? That's the thing. Like if you see that, do you even tell people? You sound like a kook. Yeah. Like if I saw it, if I was outside in the desert, and I was just chilling, and something so big that I couldn't see the edges of it flew overhead, I don't know what I'd say. He said when it took off, it was like this. He goes, James, and Ricky didn't want to give me an

on-camera interview for the longest time. He said, I'm not coming forward. I'm not going to do it. I'm not going public. I worked on him for eight months. Finally, I got the green light. I flew back out to Texas, got him on camera, put him in the movie. But he said when it took off, it went from this, a complete standstill, and it went straight up, like at a slight angle, but straight up and gone. He goes, James, I said describe the acceleration. He goes, hell, I'll tell you, the best way I can describe it is that had I blinked,

I would have missed it. That's how fast it took off. So it went from here, like that. He had helicopters hovering over his, I know this sounds crazy, people are gonna be like, oh, this big, but he had helicopters flying over his property for a while, right around the time that I was trying to get him to go on camera. He came out in his underwear and his shotgun late at night with his

helicopter spotlighting him up and he ended up calling the local Air Force base and said stop flying over my house at night and they said we suggest you stop talking about what you saw. And so he was kind of spooked. And about eight months later, he finally decided that he was gonna go public with the story. But everything to lose, nothing to gain. You get this countless reports of these cases. And they're around the world, right?

It's not just the United States. I've demonstrated that time and time again. But there's more of them in the United States than anywhere else, right? Well I mean one of my favorite cases, Ruiz and Bobway, that's an amazing case. But there's more sightings in the United States than anywhere else, right? Seems to be an attraction almost like a moth to a flame with nukes. Somehow they're interested in our nuclear capabilities.

And I remember interviewing Robert Salas, who was a launch control officer who described this whole event at Maelstrom Air Force Base in the 60s where these UFOs were witness on the base and then all their missiles started getting shut down and I remember saying to him like well what what what's what's your take on that like what kind of you know he goes and I could realize I realize why this individual was a launch control officer because he was so measured and so calm It's so cool And he goes well James The message I got was kind of clear. It's almost like taking matches out of the hands of a baby

But no, yeah, yeah, so, you with the phenomenon, you look at what they do, right? And that says some things. They've done some pretty brazen events, right, over the decades. But you also look at what they don't do. Because if the phenomenon wanted to end this, like, you know, secrecy once and for all, all they'd have to do is hover over the Macy's Day Parade or the next big Super Bowl and it's game over. They don't do that. They've done some pretty brazen things. Case in point, March 13th, 97, over the state of Arizona,

including the Governor, 5 Simon witnessed that massive, there were a number of UFOs witnessed, but the main main one, you know, was this big boomerang shaped craft and even the governor said it must have been at least a mile across from wingtip to wingtip that floated. And I actually interviewed people that worked at Luke Air Force Base at the time and they said that they scrambled jets to intercept this thing. And I interviewed a number of people that saw that craft. I mean that stood on their, that lied down in their lawns and watched it float over the top of them. And apparently according to this individual that I met in the late 90s at Luke Air Force Base, they scrambled a military jet to intercept this thing. He came up on it, could have landed on the damn thing, it was so big. And it went from moving very,

very slowly to accelerating like warp drive. Boom, just gone. When the jet came back to the base, Luke Air Force base, they had to carry him out of the plane, I'm told, because he was so shaken by what he saw. Yeah, I can imagine you wouldn't handle that well. Can you imagine having to keep that secret? No. Can you imagine taking the ultimate- Well, the governor had to lie, right? The governor had to stand up with a rope, a guy

in a... Dressed in an alien suit. Yeah, an alien costume. Yeah, a five-thousand-ton. Yeah. I hammered him on that one. Well then afterwards, once he left office, then he talked about it. Yes. And he talked about seeing it. Yes. Yeah, yeah.

I wonder why he had to do that, though. I got... Oh, well, so I interviewed... I was the one that got him to break his silence after 10 years. And he told me, and I don't necessarily know that I fully believe it, but he told me, because initially when it happened in March, and now remember the vast majority of people were out in the night sky to get a glimpse of the hell bob comment. So I was witnessed all the way across the state of Arizona and even in Nevada, Southern Nevada. And yeah, there he is. Fife told me that it was growing hysteria, but initially he had set out and he said, we're going to find out. I'm contacting Luke Air

Force Base, we've got to the Pentagon and all these various services and we're going to get to the bottom of it. And then I don't know how much longer it was. Was it later that day or was it the next day? He held an unscheduled press conference and that's when he had his aides dressed up in an alien suit and made a mockery of it all. And I can assure you, pissed the hell off his constituents and the witnesses all across the state of Arizona. They were furious. And I confronted him on that 10 years after the fact, because I was pissed off. I was investigating that case when it happened in the nineties. And I interviewed a lot of really good witnesses, really good witnesses. And he said the reason why he did it was because of growing hysteria, that he

wanted to quiet, calm down the hysteria. But did he get a phone call to say, hey, kill this story? I lean in that direction, but even when we're having cocktails together, he's never confessed that that happened. But it's awfully suspicious the way it all went down. It's a little weird, especially considering he actually saw it. That could have been a turning point in the UFO phenomenon reporting era, right?

Like suddenly you get this massive sighting which would happen today. We would have been covered by, you know, everybody's phones and whatever. But if the governor had come forward and said, yeah, we need to figure out what that thing is. I'm a former captain in the Air Force, I'm a pilot, and I don't know, I saw it, I don't know what the hell that thing was. Is there any footage of the actual thing, the triangle boomerang? There are some footage floating around, and I featured some and I know what I saw. You got an object in the night sky with lights that, at the time in 2009, I did some kind of enhancement, I'm sure

the software is a lot better nowadays, of it looks like a big, I can draw it. Like a boomerang? Yeah, but more angular. It was like this, like this. And my drawings are terrible. Like that? Look up at the screen? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, kind of like that, yeah. Yep.

And so that image in the far left, that's, but that's the, that's it right there, right? Yeah, and here's something that kind of throws off the trail here because, excuse me, the object came down of the state of Arizona, it went from north to south. Is that legit? On the right there? Yeah. Honestly, I can't say. I'd have to really do a deep dive into it, but let me tell you

what happened, because this is brilliant. So what happened was you got this massive object from around 530 at night in the southern Nevada, and then it drifts down very slowly over across the entire, from north to south, across the entire state of Arizona, and right around 730, 8 the Gary the Barry Goldwater Mountain Range which is the direction it was heading in the military decides to drop a bunch of flares and so people were like oh there it is there's some you know and they and a bunch of people filmed the flares so in my opinion it was a diversionary tactic that was brilliantly done because why the

military suddenly decided to drop flares and the shape of somewhat of the shape. So I think that some of the footage that you've seen out there is military flares, but there's, and there was an effort, I don't know if you want to get into it right now, but there was there was an effort by the so-called M&B, which the MIB, these men in black, or whatever unknown government agency they come from, that took some footage that I was learning about during my investigations in the 90s and you're looking at me like I'm crazy. So the first time I really heard a really credible report of the MIB and I decided not to report on it was when I was in touch with a woman who was councilwoman Frances Barwood who was one of the few officials in Phoenix area

that was saying hey let's investigate what these people are claiming they have seen. She's not saying aliens have landed all she's saying is hey these people have a right to know what's going on let's launch an investigation. She was lamp-based over the media, made fun of fun of ridiculed But as a result of her inquiry public inquiry and putting it out there one of these individuals reached out to her and I know this because I know her Francis Barber and I heard the whole story and he was a He was a Vietnam vet and he was on the roof of his house with a tripod and a camera and he was trying to Get a glimpse He was trying to film the pale Bob comment and he hadie-talkies and he was monitoring the truck drivers driving up

Interstate 10 from Tucson to Phoenix. And so he's monitoring this and he hears these truckers talking about a massive UFO and he's like, shit that's heading right towards my house. He was like, I'll film it. So he had a camera all ready to go and the object went right over his house according to him and he filmed the whole thing and he goes, yeah I filmed the whole thing. And he goes, yeah, I filmed the whole thing. It's pretty spectacular. And I know that you're launching an investigation, Frances Barreau, would you like to see it?

And she said, yeah. So they made arrangements where he was gonna drop it off at her office. Either later that day or first thing the next morning, two representatives, and it was July at this point, it was very hot, two men in dark suits showed up at his house and they said, hey, he was apparently relieved that's all they wanted. He said they were quite menacing looking, didn't really say a lot. They

said we're from Francis Barwood's office, we're here to pick up that footage. So he gives them the footage, he said the only question they asked him is did they make any copies? And he said no. And so they take the footage off they go. Well, he doesn't hear from Francis Barwood. He's like, what the hell? So a couple days go by, I think possibly up to a week. He calls her up and he says, and Frances will tell you this, she'll validate what I'm telling you. He says, hey, what'd you think of the footage?

She goes, well, what do you mean what did I think of the footage? I never got it. You were gonna drop it off at my office and you didn't show up. He goes, well, I didn't have to. You had two men from your office show up and pick it up. She goes, I didn't send anybody around to your office office and I know at the time in the late 90s

I'd heard a couple of stories prior to that. I thought this is too out there. This is too outlandish No one's gonna believe this I have no proof of this other than her testimony screw it and I didn't report on it But hearing those cases over and over and over it's like there we go Once again the so-called evidence that could prove or disprove one way or the other that something truly extraordinary took place in the skies over Phoenix back in 1997 vanished. But there is some that's slipped between the cracks that's out there, you just have to do due diligence, and I don't have the time to sift through all of it. But those images that we're looking at, they look too clean.

Yeah, I don't know what's AI generated or whatever, but I… Or what could have been in a documentary like a recreation. I know what I saw features some of the footage. I covered that case extensively so if anyone's interested in the Phoenix Lights case that but I can tell you. How many people saw it? Oh thousands. Yeah thousands. I talked to another woman Stacey Rhodes and her daughter Emily and they said they were driving on Interstate 10. And she goes, look, James,

I'm gonna tell you how big this thing was. I said, how big is she goes, first of all, there were people stopped on the freeway, just like stopped as this thing. It was like close encounters, just floating over the, she goes, I could have held up a newspaper like this and looked to the left, looked to the right, looked at that. And she said, I couldn't block this thing out.

That's how big it was. And it didn't make a sound it was gunmetal black It was witnessed by a lot of people That's why I say there's some some events that have happened over the decades that are pretty brazen That's one of Hudson Valley's pretty brazen as well If it was true You see thousands of people saying the same thing including the governor I know the governor so invested in in it you go what happened the governor yeah the governor

same guy who came out with a fucking guy dressed up like yeah I know but I got him to come clean ten years later but so he's well not credible well he already bullshit he does he bullshit he definitely bullshit he definitely bullshit you're right yeah but when someone bullshit about that they might bullshit about anything but well I true about anything. But well, I True. Yeah, but I mean I again I'm just playing devil's. No, I hear you. I hear I hear what you're saying and I Hasn't been a limelight a while. It's good thing to talk about now. There's no smoke without fire. There is so much evidence in terms of

eyewitness testimony and radar in terms of eyewitness testimony and radar, some photographic, not as much as we'd like, that something truly inexplicable is taking place in our aerospace, right? Something that after careful examination, something that not because of a lack of data in some instances, but that after careful analysis and research investigation that comes out the other end and says, I can't explain this, this is gonna have to be one of those unknowns, or you know falls into that 15% category of cannot

provide a terrestrial or conventional explanation for. And those are the cases that I've so desperately have been going after for a long time. So is all this disclosure and those discussions on television now and all these meetings and hearings does it? So you think we're on an accelerated path. Do you think this is like this is all good, right? I'm convinced of it. Yes, but do you think that there's a real possibility? Like within the next few years that they just completely drop all the bullshit and come clean about this stuff Or would it take some sort of extraordinary event where they had to admit it something much bigger than this drone thing Well in some respects there has been I Remember I interviewed this guy Nick Pope at the MOD years ago

And I was like this is a time when we were pushing for transparency there France was was releasing previously classified documents on UFOs, les ovni as they'd say. The MOD followed suit, they were releasing previously classified documents, slowly putting it out there. And at the time it was rather exciting. I just did a big event at the National Press Club

with Leslie Kane and it was like this whole move and I was like, oh my God, it's happening, right? But it kind of petered out a little bit. And I remember asking this guy that used to work the UFO desk at the MOD, Nick Pope. And I said, Nick, do you anticipate this any type of disclosure? This is like 2009 or something, 2008, 2009.

And he goes, James, no. He goes, it's going to be disclosure with a small d, not a big D. It's going to trickle out slowly. You condition people, get people prepared, test the waters. You know, one of the things that we explore in the program, and I've never done that, is the politics of disclosure. It's a far more complex. Let's just suspend judgment for a moment and assume that it's real, okay? That there really is an NHI, non-human intelligence aspect to the phenomenon, right? Let's just suggest that's real. Now, how do you disclose that to the general

public? What about the impacts on organized religion? What about the impacts on financial institutions? What about the fact that we'd have to confess that we don't have full control over this? I mean those are real considerations and it's not just the United States, right? This involves the planet. This involves all the humanity. I wanted to ask you about this. You see what I'm saying? Like, yeah, oh I understand. It's more complex than you think. Oh, I totally get that. How does Russia handle these things? How does China handle these things? Well, there was a case in China that happened in 1994 right around the time of Ruiz and Bobway, also in 1994,

called Mengjiao Gua. And it happened in the Black Mountains and it was a landing, alleged contact, close to kind of the third kind. It's funny because it happened right in the same time of Africa, similar message that was conveyed. I went to China, I met with an active general in uniform, talked openly about the UFO phenomenon, they were pretty open. I went to Russia in the late 90s and that was right before Putin. It was right around the time when Putin was coming in and that was a period of openness and I went to Star City Russia. I interviewed a cosmonaut Pavel

Popovich, a number of generals and they were very open about it. In fact they said to me at the time, if you're here to discuss whether or not the UFO phenomenon is real, the door's right over there. We're here to discuss whether or not the UFO phenomenon is real, the door's right over there. We're here to create an international coalition, an international exchange of information, and to talk about the implications of the phenomenon, which I thought was amazing. This is like 25 years ago, right? So now, I don't know if things have changed since Putin's been in office, but that was back in the late 90s. I mean, they've been congressional hearings in Brazil. There's been there's been an effort

I mean shit they had they had hearings back in 1978 at United Nations at least Beagle put on you know So there's been an ongoing effort for this stuff to come out. I just think it's different this time to me It feels like they're not gonna There's too much. There's too much momentum behind it at this point and there's so much legislation that's written It's too much that's come out and it's too important look whether you believe it or you don't believe it if you can just imagine for a moment if it is true and if the US government does in fact have irrefutable evidence that we're not alone in the universe that's so significant that we all have a right to

that information and that we should continue to support this Unprecedented push for transparency with our elected officials and get to the fucking bottom of it. Why not everybody agrees, right? Yeah General public no one's gonna disagree with you about yeah, and then new administrations coming in There's you know, there's Ratcliffe and Rubio. I'm telling you Rubio knows a lot. I know that How do you know he knows because I've talked to people that have debriefed him And have been in the room with him during the first you haven't talked to him No, I have not no I have not but I talked to people that were in the room when he was being briefed From first-handers. I'm told that there were I'm gonna say right around 12

First-hand people that have that have had behind closed doors meetings, first hand people that are concerned about their secrecy, concerned about their safety, concerned about the implications of them coming forward and going public, that they're not quite, they don't quite have, this comes from a very good source of information, that the witness protection program and the legislation that they've created around that is not quite there yet. It's getting closer. They need to continue to work on that. You don't mean like witness protection's program like put them in hiding. Whistleblowers. They have whistleblower protection. I'm so sorry. I meant to say that. Excuse me. Yeah. Whistleblower protection. It's not quite in place. One of the things I really wanted to

mention is that there is a gentleman, a young man who's 30 and he feels like he's old. His name is Jesse Michaels and he's got this new show called American Alch who's 30 and he feels like he's old. His name is Jesse Michaels, and he's got this new show called American Alchemy. New, it's a couple years old. Why does he feel like he's old? Because you know when you're 30, you feel like you're old. Really? Well, I did.

When I turned 30, I was like, oh, I'm 30, because just 10 years earlier, I was almost 19, right? Or 11 years earlier, I was 19. Right. You go from a teenager to suddenly you're 30, you always stick like 30. And I was talking to him not too long ago, Jesse, and I said, he's like, yeah, I feel a little old. I was like dude. You are just getting into your prime, baby

This is rock and roll tub, but I really wanted to this is a guy who's young Julian Dory is also doing some amazing work on this and podcasts but he was young and he's doing a deep dive into the implications and Into he meets with aerospace engineers the guys he's a Jesse you're a phenomenon keep rocking and rolling I want to cut tip my hat to you I don't know if you've seen this guy or not or no he's doing deep dives into what's happening he's documented with these podcasts and he's doing a fantastic job and I just got a tip my hat to the guy because he's ten times smarter than I'll

ever be and he's young and he's a force to be reckoned with and he's really doing he's answered all the questions that you and I are exploring all these issues that you and I are talking about. Well I'm glad there's people out there pushing it and I'm glad there's guys like Grush that are sticking their neck out and guys like you who are making documentaries about it it's the the subject is much more open to discussion like I was saying amongst serious people. Yes. Where it didn't used to be before and now I think with this drone thing I think there's so many people that are going, okay,

even if they're ours or they're China's or they're who, what's going on? Why are there so many of them? What are the answers and why can't you tell us? Is it because they're searching for a nuke? Jesus Christ, maybe you should warn people and get the fuck out of here. Is that really what's going on? If it's not, what is going on? And if it's not ours, what are they and?

How come you can't track them? How come like what kind of very bizarre? It doesn't even make sense It's very doesn't make sense when you think of the capabilities of the United States military It doesn't make any sense. They can't figure out what's going on I think what Trump said is probably correct that the government knows they know what's happening and they don't want to tell people. Why wouldn't he know? He could tell us. I don't think he knows yet. I don't think until he gets into office. He gave a speech about it at Mar-a-Lago. I saw that. I saw that but did he say... Well let's watch it. We'll watch it. We'll watch it. Yeah. We'll pull the speech up. Yeah because I'm wondering if he... yeah well we're about to find out. Yeah essentially he

was saying that he knows that the government knows What's going on and they're not telling us so that means they're not telling him. So they're not telling him No, I don't I'll think until you get into office. You're not the president, right? So he's the president-elect I don't know what kind of Clearances that he has. Yeah, I don't understand how that works God be very curious to know what he knows, right? Especially with this like who do even ask Who is the person that can lay out this, like who do you even ask? Who is the person that can lay out the information? Like which department, which agency? Yeah,

right. It seems like they're so compartmentalized. What about the fear here at home of the drones? Thank you. Good to see you. Good to see you. Can you comment on the drones that are flying around New Jersey ports? It seems like the American people have a big disc. The government knows what is happening. Look, our military knows where they took off from. If it's a garage, they can go right into that garage. They know where it came from and where it went. And for some reason, they don't want to comment. And I think they'd be better off saying what it is.

Our military knows and our president knows. Our president knows. And for some reason they want to keep people in suspense. I can't imagine it's the enemy because it was the enemy that blasted out, even if they were late, that blasted. Something strange is going on. For some reason they don't want to tell the people and they should because the people are really, I mean mean they happen to be over Bedminster we're very they're very close to Bedminster I think maybe I won't spend the weekend in Bedminster I've decided to cancel my trip yeah I think I won't

spend the weekend in Bedminster yeah wow I bet someone told him mr. president it's pretty important that you don't go to the golf course. Yeah. God, that's so crazy. Yeah. So what does that mean? I got to, if you don't mind, I was contacted, I went to this- Are you going to switch subjects? Well, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, this is all about exactly what we're talking about.

This is something that I really need to put out there because it's very important Okay, and it's an unprecedented effort spearheaded by this woman Andrea who runs a number of communities on reddit And she said that they're banding together for the first time ever It's the biggest grassroots campaign for government transparency This is happening on Friday the 20th of December at 3 p.m. Eastern time. And this has the potential to reach millions and millions of people. It's the most unprecedented event on Reddit in history. And I'll post all of the necessary information on X because this is a very grassroots effort.

And I'm reaching... And what are they doing? At James C. Fox on on X formerly known as Twitter It's there the reddit community is banding together for a huge grassroots campaign for government transparency So basically all the various platforms on reddit and paranormal UFO. They're all they don't usually get along too well, but they're all Combining their resources and they're getting together for the first time ever and to push for government transparency. There's a couple of government insiders that appear in my film that will be appearing on this to answer questions and what steps need to be happening, what's going on today and this is happening on the 20th of December, 3 p.m. and I'll be posting

more information, the very specific details on X at James C. Fox. I just wanted to get that out there before because... Well, the more this stuff that happens, the better. The more people demand it, the better. The more politicians hear from the people and want to, I mean, especially politicians that are up for re-election and they want to show that they're doing what the people want them to do. Yeah, I'd like to know more, but obviously I'm very happy that we're hearing much more about the subject in a serious way. Yeah. You know, whatever the hell's going on. Yeah, well I really encourage you to watch the program. I will, 100%. I went bent over backwards to put together and

explain everything in layman terms. What's happened from 2017 to today, because it's unprecedented. We're living in an unprecedented moment in history there's an unprecedented push for government transparency and I want to continue supporting our elected officials bipartisan effort to get to the bottom of this and I especially want to throw a shot out to representative Burchette because you're you're killing it buddy thank you Jamie why don't you use chat GPT and ask chat GPT what's going on with the drones in New Jersey? I'd be very curious to hear about that yeah it's a damn good idea and maybe then ask

Rock but uh ask chat GPT what is really happening with the drones in New Jersey we'll just see what chat GPT says. Tell me how that works. I don't know, we'll find out. So it's AI, right? Mm-hmm. And what is really happening with the drones in New Jersey? Let's see. So what does chat GPT say?

Chat GPT's gonna search the web. Oh, this is amazing. Numerous drone sighted being reported across New Jersey and other east coast. It's incredible how fast this is. Look how fast. Look at this, this is incredible. They found no evidence suggesting threat

to national security or public safety. Despite these assurances, some local officials and residents remain concerned. For instance, Belleville Mayor Michael Melham speculated the increased drone activity might be related to a search for missing radioactive material from the medical facility in New Jersey. Additionally, the public figures like Bethany Frankel have

shared unverified theories about the drones purposes, further fueling speculation. The situation is evolving and authorities continue to monitor investigate new reports. Residents are advised to report any suspicious drone activity to local law enforcement, avoid taking matters into their own hands like shooting them down. People are shooting them down. So they're shooting them down, they're eating the dogs, they're eating the cats. It's a good thing to shoot down drones as it could pose safety risks and violate laws. Now ask ChatGPT.

Let me ask Rock or no? Oh, let's just keep going with ChatGPT for a little bit because you're asking it again. Ask chat GPT if I live in New Jersey should I get out of town? Yeah, yeah. If I live in New Jersey, should I get out of town? Should I evacuate? Yeah, should I evacuate? You'll say evacuate because get out of town is like a colonialism. Should I evacuate? Okay, this is amazing at this time is no official recommendation for residents in New Jersey Uh-huh follow official updates. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay as a precautionary measure Are you sure are you sure? No federal evacuation orders.

Okay, it knows that there's no federal evacuation orders. If you were going to give me advice, would you tell me to leave the East Coast? Advice is fucked up. There we go. Based on the current information provided by trusted authorities, there's no evidence of an imminent threat. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Could you imagine, put this in, could you imagine a scenario where these drones are actually looking for a nuclear bomb and if so would you advise me as a preemptive measure to evacuate. I type so much worse when people are watching. I'm so impressed at

how well he's typing actually. I really am. While it's possible to imagine scenarios involving drones searching for dangerous materials such as a nuclear bomb there's no verified information suggesting such an extreme situation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I, how about this? I think, type this in. I was, if I put it in grok in fun mode, we might get. But hold on a second, but try this. Is there a non-human intelligence behind? Listen, I think the drones are looking for a nuclear bomb and I am going to leave New Jersey where should I go? To Montana. How far away should I go? Oh that's okay. If you leave New Jersey as a precautionary measure here are some suggestions for a place to relocate temporarily. You're doing good.

Head west. Okay so now we're getting better so now it's saying go further away. Wow. Colorado, consider, scroll back up so I can read that, where it said Colorado. Consider Durango, Grand Junction, or areas outside of Denver. These are safe and equipped with modern infrastructure. Almost like- They're telling you to move, this is telling you to get away from big cities. Durango. Tennessee, the Smoky Mountain region and Gatlinburg or Knoxville provides natural beauty, lower cost of living, and a sense of isolation. The Smoky Mountain region and Gatlinburg in Knoxville provides natural beauty, lower cost

of living, and a sense of isolation. They're telling you how to rebuild civilization. Okay, if a nuke goes off... Where to go? If a nuke goes off on the East Coast... Type this in, Jamie. Where should I be to be safe? Oh my gosh. If you're concerned about potential nuclear incident, here's a list of safest options

based on geographic, environmental, and strategic factors. Montana, Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho, sparsely populated, vast distances from major cities and military targets. Towns like Bozeman, Jackson Hole, Sandpoint, are beautiful remote and away from the fallout paths. Jesus Christ. I'm curious, what would happen if you asked, chat, GBT, is it? GPT.

GPT, if what percentage of UAP represent a non-human intelligence? Okay, that's a good one. What percentage of UAP represent a non-human intelligence? Really curious. Let's just pull it from the internet. I know, but let's see what it says.

Have it still us. Could represent non-human intelligence or remains unknown and speculative. investigations by uap organizations like the US government And it did emphasize the following most uaps have conventional explanations as project blue blue Bullshit salt percent of five or ten percent of uap cases remain undefined even after thorough analysis these cases I was like an usual twenty but yeah, five to ten percent through analysis these cases I was like 15 20 but yeah 5 to 10 percent evidence inconsistent with known human technology no conclusive evidence for non-human intelligence while some UAP cases are public puzzling the

government has not officially okay commander but type this in commander David Fravor encountered a tick-tock, a tick-tack, tick-tack shaped craft in 2005, what, 2004? 2003. 2003. That defied our understanding of known physics Period what do you think he saw? Wow 2004 I'm sorry with tic-tac-shaped craft remains one of the most compelling and well-documented UAP cases in modern history key deal details the encounter Craft describes smooth white oblong resembling a tic tac no visible propulsion wings or exhausts play extraordinary flight characteristics

Accelerated instantly from a hovering position descended from 80,000 feet to near sea level in seconds Fravor reported the object mimicked his movements during their engagement and then vanished at extreme speed reported the object mimicked his movements during their engagement and then vanished at extreme speed. It's possible the craft was an ultra-secret military project, either US-based experimental aircraft aerospace technology or developed by another nation. However, the extreme flight performance raises doubts. Thus, advanced technology would suggest a significant leap beyond publicly known capabilities, which is inconsistent with current engineering limits. Sensor anomaly or perception issues, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I asked the heads of Arrow if they could explain that one and they said no. If, don't type this in. This is a really good case. If all accounts of the capabilities of the tic tac craft are true. that it came from another planet. If the accounts of the tick-tacks craft's capabilities are accurate, instantaneous acceleration, hypersonic speeds without propulsion, no heat signal. Say it loud so people can hear you.

Okay, so if the accounts of the tick- tacs craft's capabilities are accurate instantaneous acceleration hypersonic speeds without visible propulsion no heat signatures and defiance of inertia then the possibility the possibilities of origin origin being extraterrestrial or from another planet become a viable hypothesis. Here's why the physics of the tic Tac Craft reported behavior the craft suggests technology that operates beyond our current understanding of physics and propulsion systems. No visible propulsion. It implies propulsion system unrelated to conventional jets or rockets. Instantaneous acceleration defies inertia in Newtonian physics. Achieving this would require manipulating gravity or space-time itself. Silent operation, no sonic booms despite hypersonic speeds points to a technology that likely

eliminates air resistance such as surrounding itself in an electromagnetic field or bubble. This level of technological advancement far surpasses anything developed on Earth. If true, such capabilities would suggest a highly advanced civilization perhaps thousands or millions of years ahead of us scientifically. If true, where do you think it came from? And this was 20 years ago. I know, but if true, where do you think it came from? If it, how about this? It's still typing. Final thoughts. I'm not giving you that answer here. Final thoughts. Look at that. It's writing a whole turn paper on this.

Yeah. It's amazing how fast it does it too. God. It's amazing how fast it does it. Wow. Tic-tac. If the Tic-Tac UAP is real and the accounts are accurate, then its origin may very well be extraterrestrial or involve unknown physics and technology that we haven't begun to comprehend.

The extraordinary nature of the case suggests an equally extraordinary explanation What do you think why you asking me bitch? You're touching between this extra Visitation seem plausible or is there another explanation that resonates more with you? So type this I believe It seems plausible that they are extraterrestrial in nature? Good luck, I was going to say that's good. If true, comma, if true, where do you think they came from? Let's see. Alright, identifying where they might come from involves exploring nearby stellar systems,

known exoplanets, and plausible scientific ideas about interstellar travel. Here are the most likely possibilities. Nearby star systems with habitable zones. Alpha Centauri system, 4.37 light years away, the closest star system to Earth, Proxima Centauri. light-years away the closest star system to Earth proximus and tari potentially habitable planet exoplanet orbiting proximus and tari within the habitable zone if life developed there might be technologically advanced enough for interstellar exploration Bernard so it's giving me a list of all the potential possibilities possible star systems this one's only 39 light-years

away what was the closest one office Alpha Centauri was that? Was that four light years or something? I don't know. Scroll back up. Scroll back up a little bit. 3.9 million? 4.3. Alpha Centauri, 4.3 light years away.

Pretty close. Wow. But here's the crazy part. Pretty close. Remember the twin paradox theory? They say that if you get like two twins, right, as kids, say one's 10, they're both 10, and you put one in a spaceship that travels the speed of light for one year, he would come back with an atomic clock on board that spacecraft, a year old or he'd be 11,

and his brother would be an old man. I can't wrap my mind around that. Right. But that's- They say it's pretty much fact. But that's speed, right? I think what we're talking about is different than speed. I think it's instantaneous, instantaneous relocation. Right, so in other words, you would-

Yeah, I think instead of like- Manipulate the space time between the two points? Right. So I think the idea is that instead of a rocket that goes, you know, five million miles an hour and just shoots off of Earth and keeps going until, you know, five million years from now, it runs into this planet. I think it's different than that. I think what if I had to guess where something can manipulate gravity and space, what it would do is instantaneously appear in these new places.

Like you've talked to a lot of physicists about this kind of stuff, huh? do is instantaneously appear in these new places. Like you've talked to a lot of physicists about this kind of stuff, huh? I have and the way they explain it is baffling and Bob Lazar's version of it is baffling because Bob Lazar's version of it that he told in 1989 kind of makes sense when you talk to people that are trying to develop some sort of a gravity or warp

drive. And the way Babazar explained it is that this element when bombarded with radiation creates this, I'm really butchering it for sure, creates some sort of a gravity field that allows it the way described it like if you took a mattress, a very soft mattress, and put a very heavy bowling ball in the middle of the mattress, it pushes the mattress down to that area, and that this like folds time. Right, so you go from here to here, but when you stretch it down,

suddenly those two points connect. It folds it, yeah. Right. And so wherever it is, it's here. So it's not like it's going a million light years, a million light years an hour. Yeah. Space is m an hour. Yeah. Space is malleable.

Exactly. It's just. Well, it makes sense. If you think about how technology scales, and if we do, Ryan brought up this yesterday as well, that there was research and there was papers written about the idea of having some sort of a gravity drive, or having some sort of a gravity propulsion system something that doesn't rely on

Conventional, you know rockets For sure exactly and he said that this is something that was discussed a long time ago But then it just stopped and you know when we brought it up a long quite a while ago There was an episode that we brought up a paper that was written in the 1960s about gravity drives. Was that by Hal Puthoff? I do not know. Because he's like a propulsion expert in terms of the propulsion behind, the physics behind UFOs.

Yeah. And he tried to, I tried to get him to explain it to me in sort of conventional layman terms and of course my tiny little brain, but he, I felt like I almost grasped it for a moment, but the amount of power that it would take to create that gravitational field around the object. And he said that's why you see them doing these maneuvers that look like it defy physics, right? And then everything inside the craft

would just splatter. That you're immune from that on the inside, according to a certain physicist. What am I talking about? Right. But that would also make sense if you had something like that, that you could go in the ocean as well I right? But that would also make sense if you had something like that that you could go in the ocean as well Right. Yeah, so because whatever is around you wouldn't matter because you're not affected by it, right? You're somehow creating a field around it's it's it's immune to whatever That would be the only thing that would make sense or how it could move so fast underwater Spear space water and how it would be transmedium. Yeah and go from space into the water. It's unaffected by gravity. It's unaffected by all the things around it.

It creates its own gravity field and allows it to just pass through things. I remember Kirk McConnell, who Senate Armed Service Committee who investigated UFOs from 2017. I talked about him earlier, but he said that they were picking up Aegis radar systems were picking these objects up from basically from space and they were shooting down from space all the way down They loiter for as long as they wanted to go in the water come back out again shoot back up into space and they would just do it like

You know all day long and there was nothing. Well, we can't see that right and No, what though someone does have I mean if there's someone in the military that does have some like super advanced satellite reconnaissance imagery of these things I Could see why they would hold that back. I could see why they would think that people aren't ready for that I could see it. Do you think Elon knows? He's real cagey about it. He is cagey about it. He's got deals with the DOD and he's got everything It's probably why I'd be cagey about it and he's got deals with the DOD and he's got everything. That's probably why I'd be cagey about it, too

He knows more than what he's saying. This is what he said. If aliens are real, they're very subtle That's what he was saying. I was like, I don't know if they're subtle man. The Phoenix lights wasn't that subtle. That's aliens I heard from some people around him that that because of his contracts with DOD that he kind of keeps quiet about it because I'm sure Everybody talks about I mean even Ratcliffe talked about the satellite imagery for a view ap I mean if they're picking it up, why wouldn't his systems pick it up? He hasn't said a peep about the drone thing and you haven't asked him about it. Nope If he wants to tell me he'll tell me i'm not going to be that guy. I'm not going to be annoying but Publicly like on x has he said anything about the drones

Something a couple weeks ago, I believe they think it was a couple weeks ago I'll check right now But is that there's a big drone storm or a big drone fight coming and people are taking that as like he knew this Was happening. Hmm a big drone fight coming Well, you know, he's been real public about the idea that building manned fighter jets is at this point kind of foolish You know, and he's I think he's correct, you know, so unpiloted only yeah I mean, I think the fun out of it Well, it takes the biological mistakes out of it is what it does right?

It takes the human mind out the human mind is very fallible You know We already know that AI systems like Mike Baker explained to us that AI systems with fighter jets beat actual fighter jet pilots 100% of the time. So when they have this simulated, yes, when they have these simulated dogfights, when they take AI fighter jets that we have right now, they beat our fighter jet pilots the best of the best 100% of the time. So they don't have any biological limitations in terms of what what? Stain right yes, yeah, so you have that right so all you have to do is make the equipment and the materials Robust enough so they can take insane speeds and not blow apart

But it certainly would be way easier to do that than it would be to get a human being to be safe in it So much less badass though. So what does he say? Oh, so he clicked on it. Future wars are all about drones and hypersonic jets. So this is us talking about that. This is us talking about fighter jet pilots by humans will be destroyed very quickly. So he talked about it.

So he put a clip up of us talking about it on the podcast. This was in November, November 28th. And so neither side is air superiority and tanks are easily destroyed by missiles. So that leaves infantry and artillery basically World War One. Drones are not yet available in sufficient numbers to matter much like aircraft in World War One, a defense in depth trench war means and then some modern example. So did you get the impression when you spoke to Elon about UFOs that he knew more than he was telling you you said he's cagey

Yeah, he doesn't he doesn't even entertain the idea of UFOs So if you bring up the flavors incident, he'll just say no it didn't happen or that's doesn't seem interested I don't know. I mean I would imagine what you're saying is true that it's not wise for him to discuss it That's what I would imagine Yeah If he wants to tell me he'll tell me and if he wants me to tell no one I'll tell no one saying is true, that it's not wise for him to discuss it. That's what I would imagine. If he wants to tell me, he'll tell me. And if he wants me to tell no one, I'll tell no one. If he wants to tell me and say, don't tell anybody, I won't tell anybody. But I'm

not going to ask him. I think his position as being the guy at SpaceX, why would you fuck around with that? He's got too much at stake. Yeah, he has way too much at stake. Also, like, if anybody's gonna find out, he's gonna find out. If there's something going on, if something legitimately going on. The guy who can catch rockets with a crane,

that's the guy, he's gonna know. I thought the first time I saw that it was like AI generators. It seems fake. I was watching the thing come down and I just thought that's- The ones that land before that, those are insane.

And now you can catch them, they don't even have to land. It's nuts. Like what he's done is just accelerate what we are capable of doing far beyond what NASA was able to do just a few years ago. So. I used to have a neighbor that worked for Elon Musk

and he drove a Tesla way early on when Teslas weren't that many out there. And I was like, whoa, you got a Tesla? He's like, yeah, I actually work for Elon Musk, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I saw him a couple of years later. And I was like, whoa, you got a Tesla? He's like, yeah, I actually work for Elon Musk, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I saw him a couple of years later. And I was like, hey, you're not driving Tesla anymore? He goes, no.

He goes, I don't work for Elon anymore. I was like, oh, well, I'm sorry to hear that. What happened? And he goes, well, he works so hard and his expectations are so high. He goes, I was at the hospital with my wife, as she was giving birth to our first child. And Elon's like, I need you in the office.

Oh, Jesus Christ. He said, he goes, I cut, you know, a guy's got an incredible work ethic, but it was too much. He goes, I'm at the hospital, I don't care where you're at, just work. It's like pretty brutal. That's brutal. Wasn't he sleeping in the, he was sleeping in the... Sure, yeah, he was sleeping, working 16 hours a day and sleeping on the floor. Wow. Yeah. That's brutal. Wasn't he sleeping in the, he was sleeping in the... Sure, yeah, he was sleeping, working 16 hours a day and sleeping on the floor. Wow. Yeah. That's commitment. Well, he demands that of other people too, and you know, maybe you want that, maybe you don't,

and if you don't, you can't work there. It's just that simple. Like, if you want that, hop on in. If you're a single guy and you don't have a wife, you don't have children, but if you do, oh boy, that's not a life for, that's not a life for that's not for me I don't want that job. I think the closest thing to a spaceship on wheels is a Tesla. Oh, they're amazing pretty remarkable I've had three of them. This is my third the acceleration is incredible. It's like a gut punch. Yeah, they're getting better They're getting the autonomous driving is incredible now I remember once somebody said to me they were like, you know step on it, you know Show me the acceleration.

And I stepped on it, a model three performance. And- It seems fake. I got nauseous. I wasn't quite ready. I was like, I turned myself a little sideways or something. I felt nauseous. I was like, wow, I'm riding motorcycles.

I've been doing all this stuff. I was like, yeah, but I was like, now I prepare myself for that. That's really fast. That's super bike fast. It's crazy fast. And it can actually, the beautiful thing is you can merge on the highway

and you don't seem like a douche bag. Cause you're not like, brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr The guy that bought the bike had a loud exhaust pipe, which I ended up getting rid of. I didn't like the loud exhaust pipe. It's too loud. And I got pulled over and the cop never even saw me. He just heard me and he wrote me up exactly how fast I was going. He's like, you're doing 90 to 35. I'm like, I was?

He's like, oh yeah, I can hear you. I was like, I went up through the gears and I put it quiet. So yeah, that's quiet is nice. Quiet has its benefits. Well, it doesn't in a motorcycle though. You wanna be loud so people don't hate you. That's true, but I drive like the invisible man when I'm on a motorcycle.

You have to. I've had people look me right in the eyes and they pulled right out in front of me. People want to. T-bones, side swiped. And also people are like, how many people are medicated? I don't think they see you as a threat. I think they see you as like,

you're almost like a gnat or something. I've learned and I tell people that ride motorcycles, I've riding bikes for 50 years as soon as you get on that bike You become the invisible man, right? Right pretend no one can tend that no one can see you live a lot longer Yeah, you can make eye contact with somebody doesn't mean they see you right? I've had people pull out in front of me Like I said, I've been t-boned and all kinds of crazy accents over the years I wish they weren't so dangerous because I would love to drive one. Oh, they're amazing. I know, you just have to be, like I said, you just, you know. Yeah, until you're not.

I had three friends. I was getting my motorcycle license. So I was doing, it was a while ago. 10 years? So it was a couple of us that worked on Fear Factor, a couple of the guys that worked on set. We all decided to go and take lessons together. And shout out to Peter Hershko.

And he wound up getting his motorcycle. He kept driving it. But one of the guys we worked with, he crashed his bike and fucked up his shoulder. And then one of the guys who was fighting for the UFC, Frank Meir, he got hit by a car. He got T-boned and ran into his femur, snapped his femur, and he almost lost his leg.

His leg was, and it fucked up his career for years. So there was that and then I saw a guy on the highway that was covered in a blanket. Oh God. Yeah, he was alive, you can see, but his leg was so fucked up that they covered in a blanket so the passerby wouldn't rubberneck it. There's three of those and then another friend of mine

saw someone get hit, saw someone get rear ended, someone not paying attention in their car, rear ended a bike and had the guy flying through the air at a red light So that was enough for me Yeah I know I became a dad and I had two motorcycles right before I became a dad and I sold them and then after 10 Years, I was like, maybe I get just like a dirt bike. They're really enjoy riding Nothing like it being on a motorcycle. So I should a dirt bike and a mountain line takes you out. God damn it. I have a dirt bike with a motor. Yeah, but even with a motor.

I don't know if a mountain lion would be scared of a motor. Yeah, I'd be able to outrun it. But most of the time they get bicyclers. Yeah, most of the time they kill bicyclers. It's nuts. Yeah. So so let me ask your honest opinion. I know we're wrapping up here. Okay. If you had to say whether you believed or you didn't believe, and look, you can't make any definitive statements. I get that. But you're a very influential individual who's done more for the push for disclosure. I hate to use the word disclosure. It's got a bit of a buzz, a bit of a connection to it, a push for government transparency on this topic, right? If you had to say something truly inexplicable that most likely

would lead to NHI or non-human intelligence or not conventional, what would you pick ultimately that you think there is possibly a non-human intelligence behind this or that there is not? I wish I could be definitive like that. I know you can't be definitive. I don't, I try to stay as open-minded on this as possible, which means I fluctuate back and forth to fully believe, from fully believing to fully believing it's a military experiment and that it's a bunch

of our stuff, but then there's stories like the things, like the Tic Tac and where you go, okay 2004 how how do they how could they do that in 2004 is there a propulsion system available in 2004? That's that far advanced and if so, how come there's so little evidence of it in like in a practical use Like how come that technology you would think that technology would take so much money to develop That you would do something with it in 20 years You wouldn't just have it and just be flying it around like a drone every now and again Yeah, it would seem like there would be some sort of a practical application for something like that

Yeah, and it seemed like like the Manhattan Project and like the stealth bomber Eventually you find out that it's a real thing, right? So 20 years is a long time to not find out that something's real. Well, how about if we take it up to a lot longer than that? What about the 1952, two consecutive weekends in July over the White House and the Capitol? And that was, we had a press conference about that. Sure. A guy in general that basically admit that they're real. Kenneth Arnold, you know, those stories.

That was phenomenal, yeah. And then you got to go to the Bhagavad Gita, you know. Like there's stories of things. The historical stuff is incredible, isn't it? Like think of the guy that showed up with the blue skin. Is that an angel? Is that a devil? Like if you were living 4,000 years ago, you were one of the people that wrote The Dead

Sea Scrolls. Yeah, he'd be a god. Yeah, well, what is that? What is that visitation that you've experienced? With a craft, it would be connected with a god, right? Right, and also the story, when you tell the story, like, what is this, and then someone illustrates it. What does it even, how does it even relay in words, especially you're using the words of 4,000 years ago?

What are you describing? And if they really have always been here and they've always been visiting us, that's probably how you would describe it. You would describe it like Ezekiel did in the Bible. Yeah, well, you know, I was in Africa investigating the alleged landing and close encounter of the third kind at Ruaz Mbabe aerial school in 1994. I wasn't there in 94. I was there much later. And the teacher, Judy Bates, who's now the head principal, and she was sharing with me these drawings that children did of the alleged creatures, and they were amazing, these drawings,

big eyes and big heads, almond-shaped eyes, blah, blah, blah. And I'm looking at these drawings one after the other from all these school children, it was phenomenal. And she gave me, no, I took photographs of them. And then a month later, I went to Australia and I was investigating an alleged landing that happened at Westall Primary School in 1966. And that was incredible. I was there investigating and I was showing some of the drawings of the aliens, the alleged aliens that I just had investigated in Africa. And some of the people were like, oh, wow, these

drawings are amazing. They look like the Wanj one Gina cave art I was like the what the one Gina cave art the Aboriginals drew these things and so they pulled it up one Gina and the parallel of their thousands of years old right these cave paintings in Australia the parallels the consistencies the it was the comparison of the two is like let's take a look at those real quick Yeah, look at one one before we leave cave painting UFO or alien once one most likely something there. I just don't know and if it's a thing So let's say if it's a real thing is it from another planet or is it more complicated than that? It's more complicated than that. Yeah, well, that's

Yes, yeah very bizarre right Look at the three of them and that the one in the center Jamie. Yeah that one look how weird that is, man That's so fucking weird. Look at the one with the dark black eyes right there. They're pale. They are too It's like yeah, it's very weird And then there's that one with the big with the big dark eyes right down Just go straight down up down. Yeah, right. It's the right right there Look at that very weird very weird It's also very weird how this is four thousand years old and then close encounters of the third kind the 1970s four thousand years old And I'm telling you I could show you the drawings

One of the witnesses you the drawings. One of the witnesses... Very weird. Yeah, it's just phenomenal. Listen man, thank you for everything. Thanks for what you do. Thank you so much for having me on. My pleasure. I mean, your fucking dogged determination to get this stuff out there, it's very important. You promise you'll watch the program? I will, 100% watch it. Comment on it? I will, I will. Thank you, it. Comment on it. I will I will. Thank you sir. Awesome brother. Appreciate you James. Thank you very much. Thank you. It's on Amazon the program And then moment of contact is probably available everywhere. Yeah, and the phenomenon. Yeah, I know what I saw out of the blue. Okay 50 years of denial. Oh my god, it goes back. Yeah, you've been

You've been deep in this rabbit hole for a long time, sir Thanks, James. Thank you very much