The Joe Rogan Experience - #2254 - Mel Gibson

Episode Date: January 9, 2025

Mel Gibson is an award-winning actor, director, producer, and screenwriter. Look for the new film "Flight Risk," directed by Gibson and starring Mark Wahlberg, in theaters on January 24. www.flightrisk.movie This episode is brought to you by AG1. Take ownership of your health with AG1 and get a FREE 1-year supply of Vitamin D3+K2 AND 5 free Travel Packs with your first subscription. Go to drinkag1.com/joerogan Don’t miss out on all the action this week at DraftKings! Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up using dkng.co/rogan or through my promo code ROGAN. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, [phone] or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT) or visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD).21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). 1 per new customer. Min. $5 deposit. Min. $5 bet. Max. $200 issued as non-withdrawable Bonus Bets that expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: dkng.co/dk-offer-terms. Ends 2/9/25 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Joe Rogan Experience. Trained by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. What's cracking? Oh man, my back just now. Oh, it's just fantastic. What is going on with your back? You've had back issues in the past, right? We talked about that the last time you came on. Well, I was born scoliotic, you know?

Yeah. So it's like, I just bought my own pen along so I could click the shit. You remember? You remember? Here, take all the vices away from me. I can't believe you remember. You remember clicking on the pen.

That's hilarious. Oh, yeah. I'm a fidget, you know, so I, let me take everything off. It's not good. Oh yeah. Born slightly scoliotic. And then of course I banged myself up over the years, you know. Of course.

What can you do? Do they do anything other than surgery for people with scoliosis? They do because I don't want to do surgery. Once you start opening stuff up and fooling with it, there's no going back. Especially the back. Backs are rough. I've never met anybody that had like fusions or anything where it turned out good. No.

And like Hippocrates, the father of medicine, he said, in any ailment, look first to the spine. And it was like, he's kind of right. It emanates from the core. Well, if your back is fucked up, everything's fucked up. No matter how strong your arms and legs are, if your back is fucked up, you're in trouble. Yeah, that's true. Your brain, everything. Everything goes to hell. Well, you're in pain all the time. People with back problems, they can't think straight

because you're always like, ugh. There's a gift to not thinking straight. Tell me, tell me more, I want to know. Well it actually takes you down some pretty weird paths you know. If you're happy all the time I don't know you don't have you you don't have to strive to find thoughts to make yourself happy. Right. So it's like it it's a good predisposition, I think. I agree to that. Yeah, I think being happy all the time is, it's kind of an unlikely scenario.

No, nobody is. Yeah. No, but we all want it. You notice we all yearn for it. There's this, that's the only thing we all want, right? Right. Just happiness, little peace. Well, it's also we're shown it like in, you know, television, movies. We're shown happiness as this goal. Like seek happiness. Sure. Should be happy all

the time. Happy. Should never be upset. Yeah. Well. It's not realistic. It's completely unrealistic. However, it's nice to have those little journeys through art where you can actually explore those things. You can explore your ids. You can explore happiness. And so you'd experience the opposite. I look at situations around me and I generally feel pretty grateful for what some people go through. Sure. I'm grateful. And everybody's got their crap, you know.

But like this morning, for example, I would be surprised if my home is still there. Yeah, we were just talking about that. The Palisades is on fire. My friend Tom, Tom Segura, his house is gone. Yeah. It's where he used to live. He sold it, luckily. Yeah, I have a son.

He's in a sort of volunteer fire brigade, Milo. I call him the mayor of Malibu. And he's running around. I asked him, how's things looking there, Milo? He says, not good, pops. He says, you're in the neighborhood. And he sent me a video of my neighborhood, and it's in flames. It looks like an inferno. Yeah. So, yeah.

Do you think this will get you out of California finally? Yeah, maybe. Where are you going to go? Oh, I don't know. I got a place in Costa Rica. I love it there. Oh, Costa Rica's nice. Yeah, I bought there many years ago. Yeah? It's in a real nice spot. It's not too touristy or, you know, dirt roads.

Oh, nice. So, it's off the beaten. Does it feel safe out there Pretty safe. I think look it no place is safe. I mean you've got the Darien down there, you know, what's that? It's kind of in the what's the next country down Panama? And you and and there's this no-man's land where the Colombians come through and it's like, you know All kinds of dirty dealings in the jungle with you know, who knows, you know drugs and mules's like, you know, all kinds of dirty dealings in the jungle with, you know, who knows, you know, drugs and mules and, you know. Yeah. So, you know, it can be dangerous and I've heard of danger happening there. You know, you hear about somebody getting

chopped up by a machete and Costa Rica is actually, it's actually a cool place because it never had a culture of death like a lot of the Central American countries did. They have a culture of death. Even Mexico, I mean, they used to tear people's hearts out and all that sort of stuff. Yeah. Aztecs were like the Romans, the Mayans were like the Greeks, but they all sort of dabbled in some stuff. Costa Rica always had a policy where they was like the Switzerland of Central America. They emphasize education and health and everybody's literate

and it's kind of interesting in that way. But it deals with its own little troubles. Yeah. Well, like every country, you know know anywhere down in that part of the world Mm-hmm. It's just like there's so much sketchy shit going on all around you. Yeah, there can be yeah Yeah, one has to Be forewarned forearmed all that, you know, so I have a nice place down there Yeah, I have some friends that have a place in Mexico. I'm always like don't you ever worry Yeah, I worked in Mexico a couple of times. I was down there and it was in Baracruz.

And apparently, you know, people were rolling heads into bars and stuff like that, you know, rival gangs and stuff. And they said, I'd go for a walk, you know. And they'd say, you're crazy going for a walk. You'll get kidnapped. I said, I'm not going to get kidnapped. I'm the guy that pays. You're gonna get kidnapped and I'm not gonna pay your ransom. It's like I never felt insecure in that way. And you know, if something's

gonna happen, it's gonna happen. Yeah. You know, if your number's up. I know, I used to watch guys who do what I do for a living and they'd have a phalanx of bodyguards around them, you know, and like for security and stuff. But I used to have that stuff for a little while, but it doesn't make any difference. You're going to be okay. Or not. Or not, right? Until you're not. Until you're not.

And everybody's going to be okay until they're not. Yeah. I got into a dodgy situation be okay until they're not. Yeah. I got into a dodgy situation one night and I act crazy. Yeah? Yeah. What happened? If you act crazy, everybody leaves you alone. Especially if you are a little crazy.

A little. You know, if they know that. You're in a stress mode, so you actually get angry. If I feel like I'm threatened, I get angry, which is what happens. And then you get really in people's faces and they think, this guy's crazy. But all the old cultures thought that, like when there were people traveling across the Great Plains to go west, you know, if you acted nuts, they'd leave you alone because they didn't want your evil spirits.

Oh, so what happened with you? Nothing. They left me alone. But where was this? Oh man, I was in a bad neighborhood. I, um, was, it was when I first got into LA, and I was to go to dinner with Kostas Gavras, he was a Greek director. I, uh, went the wrong way. And it was before they had, you know, phones with like, you know, all that stuff. So Thomas guide.

It was the Thomas guide. Anyway, I wasn't guided well by Thomas. I ended up in the wrong place. And then my muffler fell off and I was driving a Mercedes, you know, pretty nice sporty car, you know. And I thought, oh, and I had the wife in the car. I pulled into a side street, the sun was going down. And as I got out of the car, I thought, I got to fix this muffler, I can't just drag it. People started coming from houses. And they came up to me and I saw them coming in the rear view mirror. And I jumped out of the car and got in their face. And I said, what the fuck do you want? Because I thought I felt threatened. And the guy said,. And I said, what the fuck do you want? Because I thought, I felt threatened.

And the guy said, man, I'm just looking for some money. You got any money? So I was being mugged. And it was like, I thought, I'll think about it when I'm fucking finished. I opened the trunk. And this is the weird part, Joe. I will never quite understand this.

I opened the trunk to see what I could find to help me put the muffler back on. And sitting there, the only two things in the back of the trunk was a pair of wire cutters and a coat hanger. It's exactly what I needed and I don't know why it was there. That's weird, isn't it? That's very weird. So you used the coat hanger to wire up your muffler? Yep. I cut a piece of wire wire up your muffler? Yep.

I cut a piece of wire, wired the muffler up. The whole time more guys are coming. Jesus Christ. And they're standing behind me and I'm feeling like, oh. And anyway, I get up, I finish the muffler, slam, and I'm acting mad and crazy the whole time and I think this guy's nuts. And I get back to the car and my wife gives me a handful of cash. And I thought, what's this? She wife gives me a handful of cash and I

thought what's this she says it's just wives and ones give it to me so I threw it and drove off but it was like it was looking hairy for a minute and you never know. What year was this? Oh my god back in the 90s. Fitness isn't just about what you do in the gym it's also about your nutrition but even with the best diet some nutrients can be hard to get and AG1 can help fill those gaps. AG1 delivers optimal amounts of nutrients in forms that help your body perform. AG1 makes foundational nutrition easy because there aren't a million different pills and capsules you have to keep track of. It's just one scoop mixed in water. It's such an easy routine to keep in the mornings.

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So things are more dangerous now. I think they are. Yeah, I think so for sure. Yeah. We were just talking about the wildfire situation and how crazy it is that they spent $24 billion last year on the homeless. And what do they spend on preventing these wildfires? Zero. Zip. Zip. And in 2019, I think Newsom said, you know, I'm going to take care of

the forest and maintain the forest and do all that kind of stuff. He didn't do anything. Didn't do anything. And then on top of that, they cut the water off. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's all funny. And then I think all our tax dollars probably went for Gavin's hair gel. I don't know. but it's like, you know, it's sad. It's like the place is just on fire. Well, the whole state is just so poorly managed. It's so frustrating and confusing. And then he gets on TV and pretends like everything's great.

And California is the best. We have the best state. We have the most amazing economy. Like, you're out of your fucking mind, dude. You've ruined this state Personally ruined it. Well, it's the same team that was up in San Francisco I came down to LA and they're doing what they did in San Francisco. Yeah, San Francisco is kind of like apocalyptic now You know, yeah, I went there and this is like people everything, you know homeless, you know, it's just it's a mess

It's just unbelievable that society can crumble that quickly. It really is unbelievable. It doesn't take long. No. Yeah. I read a book once by Jared Diamond called Collapse. You ever read that book? Yeah. Yeah. Crazy, right? It says all the things you need for a civilization to cave in and collapse. And a lot of the things are present, all those earmarks, the precursors of a collapse, they're present in our time. So it's an interesting observation. Yeah. And we're no smarter than our grandparents, I don't think.

Well that brings me to one of my favorite movies of yours is Apocalypto. You know when the Mayans were running things, like who could have ever thought when they had such an incredibly sophisticated society, unbelievable construction, like the stuff that they had built that one day you just walked through there and there's nothing. Nothing. Nothing and nobody. In fact, there's something because it's interesting. Somebody was flying by what they thought was a volcano in the 30s, some buzz boy, and he

thought, hey, somebody built that. Wait a minute, there's four by eight foot bricks. That's not, that's man-made. And it is literally the biggest pyramid in the world. It's bigger than the ones in Egypt, and it's in Guatemala. Yeah, we talked about that the other day. Yeah, it's a recent discovery, right? Well, not that reason. I was, maybe 20 years ago, I visited. I went down there with the Maybe 20 years ago. I visited I went down there with the With the archaeologist the guy named Richard Hansen who's from Idaho or someplace and he's down there with his family's been working tirelessly for like 30 years

Trying to extract this pre-classic city from the jungle and there's not a bunch of tourists all the pyramids in Tikal Would fit inside the one big pyramid in El Mirador. Really? Yeah. It's a monster. And so that tells you that the pre-classic civilization was bigger and grander and more sophisticated than the civilizations that came after it. Yeah. Pretty interesting. Well, it is unbelievable how like when you the accounts of like people that visited Mexico and visited the Aztecs like what the markets looked like and how insane it was and how gorgeous it was and then just Yeah I don't know if it was disease or what I think the people were pretty dissatisfied. It would have been hard for Cortez with his limited numbers to actually take over a civilization

like that unless they kind of happened upon a civilization that was pretty dissatisfied with the way things were going. So I think they had people to help them sort of rebel. I'm sure. When you're making a movie like Apocalypto, I mean, that's a crazy undertaking. You're making an entire movie where there's no English in it at all, and it's a blockbuster. Yeah. Yeah, it's cool. It was fun. That's one of the best movies, man. It's a fucking great movie.

Well, because I think it's scary because nobody's speaking your language. And you're looking at indigenous peoples who you... And because they're not speaking the language you totally kind of buy it and you can buy the horror and and the primal nature of of the story you want to tell and really it's just a series of fears one after the other you know being chased by you know scary guys or why eaten by wild animals or you know hit by blowgun you know blow yeah it's all like a series of these things. But I think basically what I was doing was trying to talk about our time now and the civilization that we live in and how close are we to collapse and what are the things that lead to collapse? It's environmental stuff. It's human sacrifice.

Yeah. I mean, we do that. Kinda. We do. Yeah. Yeah, we do. We just dress it up. Yep. When you find out medications are killing people and they keep prescribing them, and they do it for money, that's kind of sacrifice. When you find out that wars are irresponsible. They're not just wars. Not just. No. They're for money. We send our young people over there to die. Sometimes for good reasons, sometimes for not. I mean I love the warrior. I do, I love the warrior but I hate the war. Yeah. And we hate an unjust war. Yes, absolutely., yeah anyway, it's uh, yeah, it's a mess but

The human sacrifice aspect is is alive and well in our society I think it really is it's just dressed up in a different way. Yeah Yeah rhetoric around it, but they've always been able to justify it Like an apocalypto it was like, yeah, so the crops will be better. Hey, we'll just, you know. Yeah, kill a few people. Yeah. And then I had all these people come out of the woodwork. Hey, we're archaeologists and scientists and that never happened. So there's this revisionism about it too, that

it didn't happen. But there are accounts from the time where, yes, people did witness these things. And of course, I had a bunch of battery of archaeologists and scientists and professors on my own that say, yeah, well, this stuff did happen. Here's the, you know, the depictions of it in paintings and images. And, you know, it did happen. So... When you set out to make a movie like that like what first of all what brings you to that did you get the script first like what was it an idea that you had in your head it was it just came from in here and I was working on something a buddy of mine said so what do you want to do next I said ah man I want to direct something on I always want to direct a chase film. He said, what kind of chase?

I said, a foot chase. He said, what? I said, yeah, people chasing you. I mean, there's something kind of primal and scary about a foot chase. And I think in order to have a foot chase, you can't have a society where there's any kind of cars or anything like that.

Otherwise, you have a car chase. But I want to film a foot chase like it's a car chase. And he said, oh. I said, what are you thinking? I said, well, I'm thinking if you go back before Columbus discovered America, you know, and it's like people assume that Columbus discovered America and then life began. I said, I want to know what was happening right before he got there, before he got there. And I said, so I had this idea that you see all this stuff going on and there's no time period on it, and then all of a sudden you date it by the

arrival of Europeans. And I thought, it's kind of like the Rod Serling, you know, Planet of the Apes. Yeah, yeah. It's like, it's kind of a cool, cool ending. And he said, oh, wow. And he said, where do you think Columbus landed? I said, why said, let's look. So I looked up and the first peoples he encountered were Mayan trading canoes off the coast of Honduras. And I thought, cool, what was happening in Honduras, you know? And you look at these towns and pyramids and temples and stuff at that time. And then the story was born from

there. And of course, then we read the book by Jared Diamond, Collapse. I read the Mayan Bible, the Popovu, and you know, tried to delve into what they believed and what their civilization was like. And they had concepts, as we do, of heaven and hell, of punishment or reward, you know. It was a little different, quite a bit different actually. In fact, when I went down to the archaeological sites at El Mirador, they dug something up and it was like, well, what is it? And I said, we don't know. It was this carved image in the stone of this Mayan warrior drinking and he had an ear spool and it was like hmm. So they dug further and further and it went like 26 meters down and it was the entire story of the Popovu of the twins going into

hell and getting their father's head and swimming back and it's this crazy story. And it kind of dated that book because I think it was a almost 3,000 years old this this mural this carving so it tells you the story is pretty old and they thought initially it was probably back in the 1300s but this confirmed that it was at least 2,600 years old something yeah so it's pretty cool that to be there when they're digging that stuff up is mind-blowing Well, they're missing so much of the Mayan history. It's very interesting on some coffee. I want some water That's water water. They're missing so much of the Mayan history, you know, because everybody's gone, but One of the we ever see that very bizarre carving where it looks like there's a guy who's sitting in a cockpit of a spaceship

Yes looking through some sort of an eye thing. Yeah, they got some weird stuff. It's like weird. Yeah, with this fire underneath the chair. Like, what is that? They got dudes that look like Europeans. They have these guys with red beards, helmets and stuff. Yeah, like these Phoenician guys, who probably like these Phoenician guys who probably traveled over there early on. Yeah. Probably maybe in the sixth century or something like that. So they, it wasn't that long a boat ride, so they probably went over there and made contact and they thought they were gods or something and then they went away again and they said, well, wait for them to come back.

And of course they did come back, but it didn't work out the same. No. No. No. Well, there's so many accounts of, you know, people visiting, especially when you get into the Amazon. Sure. Oh, I don't know about the Amazon. Oh my God. What's tell me about that?

Well, first of all, the Amazon used to be filled with people and most of the Amazon is manmade. The jungle in the Amazon is an agriculture. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Okay. The jungle in the Amazon, they didn. Yeah, wow. Yeah, okay. The jungle in the Amazon. They didn't even know

this until fairly recently. And they now know from flying over they use light LIDAR, which is this light. So when they use this laser radar shit, when they fly over it, they're finding all these grids and pathways and cities in the jungle. So the jungle had consumed all these cities. I think there was millions and millions of people living in the Amazon. And that Europeans came over diseases. Everybody dies jungle consumes the city. People come back 200 years later

looking for it like the lost city of z like that. That story right? They go back to look and there's there's nothing left. Yeah, guns, germs and steel. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Right. They go back to look and there's there's nothing left. Yeah. Guns, germs and steel. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Yeah. Wow. That's fascinating. I'll have to look into that. We're going through all those things right now. Guns, germs and steel. Oh yeah. Oh my god. Germs. Yeah. The germs. I had, I'm just, just on the tail end of some hideous flu that was going, I don't know if you got it. Did you get the H5N1 or whatever the fuck it is? I don't know what the hell it is. Yeah, I've had that.

That was the swine thing. I had swine flu one time. Did you have that in 2009? Yes, it was around then. Yeah, it was an epidemic, a pandemic, whatever you want to call it, but it didn't have the same sort of press releases that COVID did. Sure, I got the swine flu. I acted more like a pig, you know?

It was terrible. Terrible. Wallowing in my own mud. So, I like Flight Risk. It's a fun movie. Oh, it's a hoot. You know, it's a hoot. I mean, I think the first thing you gotta do with any film, and I think it's incumbent upon all directors, artists to entertain first. In some fashion. Even if it's a heavy story, you have to find some aspect of it that entertains. And I think this, for entertainment's sake, is just fun and it's quick. I'm not subjecting you to

four hours of like watching autism dry. It's like, you know, it's 85, 90 minutes. Yeah, it's a good time. Yeah, and Mark is insane. Yeah, he's great in it. He plays a good psycho. Oh, he's a psychopath. Mark's got a good dark side. There's some dark stuff there that he was able to draw from. And every now and then he'd let it out. I can't even repeat some of the stuff he'd say. In fact, we had to cut most of it out. It was like really sick, but

We hint at it Hmm anyway When you make a movie now, I mean you've had such a career When you make a movie now like what motivates you at this point in your life? Like how do you how do you decide? Let's hit the green light on this one. Yeah, there are things that speak to me. And they speak for a long time. I remember when I was a kid in high school, I was studying English.

And they were, where did the English language come from? And they talked about, wow, it came from this old gutter, old German, old Norse that the Vikings brought across. And I was thinking, well, that's cool, the Vikings, you know? And then immediately I start thinking, man, somebody should make, I want to make a film about Vikings. And they only speak in Old Norse because if they say, if they say, ah, you know, if they speak English

all of a sudden, you're not buying it. But if they speak in some guttural language, you're sort of scared by them. And it's like, that's scary to me. And then I said to myself, I'm 17 years old Why am I thinking about making films about Vikings? I don't know anything about making films and not much about Vikings So why the hell am I even thinking about that? But that was something that was early on was like a drive I, to sort of depict things like that. So I did films in other languages, in Mayan, in Aramaic, in Latin. And there's the power to that. I noticed when I was young, I used to go and watch a lot

of foreign films. I watched French movies, right? Or German or whatever they were, Spanish. I'd watch them and I'd think, wow, the acting's great in those. And it seemed better because of the subtitles. Because they're more believable somehow. I don't know. Right, because you're not hearing insincerity in their voice, because you don't even understand what they're saying. Yeah, you just feel the emotions in the words.

And also, it has to take your attention, because you have to do another function. You have to read, which is another thing that sort of maybe blinds you to the flaws in the filmmaking perhaps. So, you know, hey, it's a great trick. It's obfuscation. There is a thing about reading it while you're watching it. It's like an added element of concentration. You know, like subtitled movies, you feel like you're a smarter person watching a movie where you're reading it as well Yeah, and there's yeah, there's something about the written word. That's like it's a pretty interesting thing to throw into the mix

I know when I first started it was kind of confusing, but then I got really good at it and I think Especially with something like what the passion that I did the written word was very important It was you know, you got all those books, the Bible, you know, you've got the different gospels and stuff that people are quite familiar with. Half the time, they didn't even need to read the subtitles. They could look at it and know what was going on. Playoffs. We're talking about playoffs?

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On behalf of Boothill Casino and Resorting Kansas, 21 and over, age and eligibility varies by jurisdiction, void in Ontario. Bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. For additional terms and responsible gaming resources, see dkng.co slash audio. That was a crazy movie because it was a great movie. But it seemed like there was resistance to that movie.

Oh yeah, no there was. Which I thought was very strange. There was like Hollywood resistance to that movie. Like people didn't like that you were making it, it seemed like. No. Yeah, there was a lot of opposition to it. And I don't know. I think if you ever hit on that subject matter, you're going to get people going.

Because it's big subject matter. And my contention is, when I was making it, it was like, you know, and my contention is, you know, when I was making it, it was like, you're making this film and the idea was that we're all responsible for this, that his sacrifice was for all mankind and that for all our ills and all the things in our fallen nature, it was a redemption. So you know, and I believe So, you know, and I believe that, you know. I actually am, you know, I was born into a Catholic family. I'm very Christian in my beliefs, you know. So I do actually believe this

stuff to the full. So depicting that was an honor, but it was also, yeah, you got the, you got the daylights beat out of you for it. Yeah, because there's resistance, first of all, from secular Hollywood, where for whatever reason, Christianity is the one religion that you're allowed to disparage. Christianity is the one religion where people, all these progressive, open-minded, leftist people, they'll embrace all these different religions until it comes to Christianity And for whatever reason that represents like white male You know whatever it represents

Colonialism, you know, whatever it you know, whatever it represents. It's negative. Yeah, sure. It's gotten a bad rap and They people do feel free to beat up on it. Mm-hmm Even I do when I see it's like, you know, when it's not fair, when I think it's off. Like, you know, when they appoint some cardinal in some diocese and he's been covering up for like people who are child molesters, you know, like Theodore McCarrick or Cardinal Wuerl or those kind of guys. Or the Pope. Yes, absolutely.

Benedict. Oh, not Benny. Yes, absolutely. Benedict. Not Benedict. Well, he was covering up, but so is the guy now. Is he really? Well, yeah. It's not great. I thought he was like the more progressive Pope. Oh, he's very progressive, yes.

But he's covering up for stuff as well. Well, they all are. I mean, it's a dark institution in a lot of ways because it's history. Well, the institution, it was instituted by Christ, but that doesn't mean that it can't be flawed. And there's a school of thought that says it isn't what it purports to be anymore. It's moved away from what it was intended to be and what it is. Almost like the guy called Bishop V, you know, who says it's a counterfeit parallel church and it's

it's running an entirely different religion. I actually don't, I don't adhere to a post-conciliar church. I adhere. Can you define what that means? Okay. There was an event that happened in the 60s. First there was an event in the Vatican where they elected John the 23rd Pope, right, in 1958. I was two years old, right. He was elected and it was a very funny thing that happened in the conclave. You know, usually there's white and black smoke that goes out of the chimneys to tell you, we have a pope, you know, have a must, pop him, you know. And the white smoke came out and everybody cheered and they went crazy. And then about a half

an hour later, black smoke came out. That never in history has that happened, that the white smoke came out and hour later black smoke came out that never in history has that happened That the white smoke came out and then the black smoke so white smoke means we found a new pope black smoke means no pope That's right They'd have boats or there'd be one reason or other that have around in the conclave and black smoke would come out many times many Times maybe maybe it would take two weeks But never was it known that white smoke came out, then black smoke came out. So what was the scenario?

That somebody was elected and that maybe something else happened and he was pushed aside to someone else who was put in. So it was power struggle. Some kind of power struggle. And of course, the man who came out was a man called Angela Roncalli, and he was John XXIII. Now, it's interesting to note that never had a pope taken the name of another pope ever before in history. But this man took the name of a known anti-pope from the 15th century that Cosimo de' Medici put in there as his own man.

I'll get you in the chair and then everything will be rosy, you know. Everything will go good for business, you know, whatever he was putting him in there for, some corrupt reason. But, and there have been corrupt men in that place before. I mean, there's Alexander VI and Julius II and the Sixth, the Fourth. I mean, some of these guys are, you know, they're not saints. sixth is the fourth. I mean, some of these guys are, you know, they're not saints. So he took the name of a known anti-pope from the fifth century who actually said, yes, I'm an anti-pope. Sorry, I'm not the right guy because there was more than one and he confessed to being and he wanted to, you know, square things with the Almighty, I guess. So he confessed to being an anti-pope. And so he took the same name as that guy, John XXIII. So it's interesting, don't you think? I mean, why would he do that?

Well, whenever you have that kind of power, like I'm sure you've been to the Vatican, right? Yeah. It's stunning. Yes, it's huge. It's so crazy. When you're walking around, you see just the massive, just the dollar value in the art that they possess yeah it's fucking insane it's crazy yeah and uh you know it's a very small country it's a country yeah it's a country inside of a small city yeah because rome's not the biggest

city no and then it's got a country inside the city. Yeah. With walls around it. Sure. And you can't extradite people. Yeah. Pretty weird. How convenient. Yeah. Even Ratzinger, he didn't drive from the Vatican to the other place. He flew. Ooh. And it was only a little while. Because who knows why? I don't know. Well, he was wanted. Yes. Yeah. I mean, he had done... One of the things that he had done was he had moved a priest that had molested a hundred kids, and he moved them to some new place where he molested deaf kids.

Yeah. Yeah. Boy. Yeah. Yeah. I know. That's the dirtiest, most evil practice that the Catholic Church has been accused of. I think so, and many institutions as well, but that is a very bad one. And I think it's all part and parcel of the same corruption they crept in. And when you asked what's the difference between pre-Vatican II, So Vatican II happened and of course they took the church and they they reformed it and they changed things in it and it didn't

necessarily agree with everything that went before it. And up to that point, yeah, you could find it agreed with itself, but all of a sudden you got something else to the point where now, I mean, we got a pope that brought a South American idol into the church to worship. Really? He did. The Pachamama. He bought the South American...

I don't know what that is. It's kind of like a South American god, Pachamama. Why would he do that? Good question. But he did. Did he have an explanation for why he did it? Yeah, it's kind of a weasel worded thing of like, oh, all religions are just as good as one another.

But you know, if that's his contention, he shouldn't be the pope. No, I mean, how can you be the pope if you say all religions are just as good? Yeah, we all worshiped. So yeah, there's the Pachamama. There you go. So he brought that in. Yeah, into the Vatican. Then the hierarchy even worshiped that. They had a ceremony around it outside. What?

Well, that constitutes apostasy. Yeah. That's an apostasy move. Yeah. All right? Worshipping false gods. Yeah. That's number one on the Mosaic hit list. Yeah.

Moses goes up on the mountain, he comes back down, people are worshiping him in a golden calf. It's that. So you can't do that. And for me, that's a departure from... That's called apostasy. That's a falling away from it. And the very nature of apostasy means that you have to be part of it to fall away from it. So it's an inside job. So what do you think there's a motive behind these things? I don't think you know.

Probably. What do you think it is? I don't know. But it isn't good. I think look, I think we're looking at a world where, and this is the, in the next film I'm going to do, I'm going to try and tackle this question, that there are big realms, spiritual realms. There's good, there's evil, and they are slugging it out for the souls of mankind.

And my question is, why are we even important? Little old flawed humanity, why are we important in that process where the big realms are slugging it out over us? And I think there's bigger things at play here. And institutions that purport to touch on the divine are necessarily going to be affected by that slugfest that's going on between good and evil. Right. And sometimes good gives up ground. Yeah. And maybe not on purpose. Maybe there's some deception involved or self-deception.

Every morning when I wake up, I actually pray that I don't deceive myself. Because it's like, you know, your mind is a very funny place. I mean, there's, I've always said, you know, it's your second thought and your first action that you're responsible for. Your first thought, throw it away, you know. Right. But upon consideration yeah second thought is what you're responsible for yeah that's the difference between first degree and second degree murder there you go right first degree like I'm plotting this out and we we take that into consideration when we sentence people sure like if

you're a person who just you're all of a sudden you're in a fight with a guy you didn't expect it and you stab him and kill him second-degree murder. Yeah, but if you like I'm gonna kill this motherfucker I'm gonna find out where he is. Yeah, I'm gonna go get him first degree. Sure I planned a lot of murders in my life, you know, yeah Yeah, we all have yeah in your head you plan the murder and you think well, that's not a very good idea But I think I could get away with it. Right is the second thought Yeah, that is interesting that we take that into consideration Yeah, that we do like if you've had time to think about it

You're a different kind of person than person acts in the act sure you're in your animal passion Yes, and I found this out. I actually spent a long time in my animal brain which is a very horrible place to be and When you say that what do you mean by've spent a long time in your animal brain? You're in flight or fight all the time. You don't even sleep. It's like really not a good place to be. And if anybody looks at you the wrong way, you want to bite them.

And sometimes you say and do things that are socially unacceptable. And, you know, I went and got a brain scan by this guy called Daniel Amen, who's this brain guy. He's against all psych meds and stuff, but he thinks like, let me have a look at your brain. And he put a radioactive tracer in me. And to photograph my brain. He works with a lot of, yeah, he works a lot of football players and guys who have brain injuries. Man, it's thirsty in here. But so he looked at my brain and he was like, and he opens the file and I'm in there with the guy and he looks up and he goes, are you okay?

And he goes, first, no, first he went like this. And I said, what? And he went, are you okay? Like that. And I said, yeah, no, first he went like this. And I said, what? And he went, are you okay? Like that. And I said, yeah, I think so. And he came over and he sat next to me but very slowly and cautiously and he says, no, you're not. And I said, what do you mean?

He says, you got the worst case of PTSD I have ever seen. And I said, Liam, you mean like even worse than guys in war and shit like that? And he goes, yeah. And he says, you're not okay. Jesus Christ. And I was like, and I started to well up, you know, like, no, no, I'm not. Oh, boy.

And it was, he had a very miraculous and great remedy for it, which was to eat a bunch of fish oil, vitamin B complex and get into a hyperbaric chamber for 40 sessions, but make sure you do at least two or three a week. It fixed my head. Really? Yeah, it got me out of that wacky place, you know. So it was something to do with nutrition and oxygen and... Yeah.

And your brain is neuroplasticity. He explained neuroplasticity to me and how, okay, you could get brain damage and like holes in your head and all, you know, concussion. I used to play rugby. I've been knocked down on the field a couple of times, you know. That explains a lot. You know? Yeah.

And so it actually you can actually heal the holes in your head it'll make Swiss cheese it's like horrible there's a lot a lot of these football players get like that too the poor guys I mean they get depressed and they oh yeah you know oh yeah hormonal imbalance pituitary glands fucked up oh yeah yeah absolutely yeah not producing testosterone or human growth hormone correctly. That's correct. Yeah, depression, low energy, irritability. Irritability when I kill somebody, terrible thing, you know, and it's just not socially acceptable. Plus I don't want to go to prison. Yeah, well the rugby I bet that's a giant

factor. Yeah, I played from like 13 to probably my late teens. And you get knocked around a little bit. 100%. Yeah, there's no ifs, ands, or buts about that. No helmet. People don't realize, like, even shots to the chest cause brain damage. Oh, yeah.

That's what people are realizing now. Yeah, sure. I mean, you know, like, I'm addicted to the UFC, right? I love it. But I know that these guys are like I'm addicted to the UFC, right? I love it But I know that these guys are I I feel kind of sorry for him I do as well and one of the guys I I knew one of the guys fairly well and usually I'm pretty immune to like but like He was in there and he was fighting against Volanovsky

It was Brian Ortega and he was getting his ass handed to him in one fight. He almost got him a couple of times. Yeah, he almost submitted him twice. Yeah, I know. But because I knew Brian, it was like my son was in there. I almost started crying. And it got to me, I was like, I should probably feel like this about all these guys, but I don't know them as well. It becomes a problem for me when I'm friends with a guy. And then also I see when they're on the tail end of their career and they can't take shots anymore.

And then when you talk to them, you recognize the speech patterns are slurring. Yeah. Yeah, I met Muhammad Ali when he was in a chair, you know. And I don't know if I could even tell this story. What he said was so funny. But he was still in there and he was still a little devil. Hmm, and he was like and he was still he was still fucking with people of course, but it was like I Can't tell you can't no, man. Okay footnote it. Tell me later. I'll tell you later It's funny, but it was my assistant, you know, that's what he said to my assistant was like so funny and

And and then he said it and we all were like whoa, and then I looked at him He was just laughing. He was laughing his ass off. So he was still all in there, but it was hard I guess he had the damage being punched. Yeah, it's trauma related Parkinson's disease. Yes, very common for fighters Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not good. No, I got knocked out related Parkinson's disease. Yes. Very common for fighters. Oh my god. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not good. No. I got knocked out in a fight when I was like 20. And it was like knocked out. Like out. And it was, you know, I woke up in the hospital. Not good. No. Well, a few of those will explain a lot. Yes, it does Yeah, and we didn't know that you know back then that's why it always drives me crazy in a movie when someone gets hit over The head with a gun and knocked out and then five minutes later. They're fighting and they're fine Or shot. Yeah

That always makes me laugh too, but we used to do it you know well you kind of have to right Yeah, it's like a part of the whole thing of telling a movie. You got to... Sure. I mean, Michelle Dockery even brains Mark Wahlberg with a fire extinguisher at one point. Yeah. He's back. Brains him, shoots him.

Oh, yeah. He's a cockroach. You can't kill him. It takes a lot more. You'll find out. But people used to think that concussions are just something you recover from, like no big deal. You get a concussion, take a break for a little while, you'll be fine. You might not be fine.

No, you're not. I got a concussion at my daughter's wedding. This is really weird, okay? So she's getting married, married a great guy, they've got a great family, and a buddy of mine from Australia comes to the wedding and he goes, hey, comes up and I go to hug him and he ducks down and he comes up and he puts his shoulder into the point of my chin, the guy weighs 240, and he puts his shoulder into the point of my chin and knocks me the fuck out. Jesus Christ. I'm like, ah.

And like, for the next four months, I'm messed up. I have to get like a guy to work cranial sacral, you know, fix me up and stuff like that. It really messed me up. Jesus, fucking Australians. Yeah, yeah, there you go. Wild folk. Worse than Germans, yeah. Wild ex-prisoners.

Yeah, yeah. Wild prisoner of mothering. Yeah. yeah. Wild prisoner of mothering. Yeah. Anyway. So this story that you want to tell about good and evil, like, do you have a script or is it just a thing in your head? What is it? Yeah, it's the resurrection story.

But it's not just, it's not linear because you can't really, it's hard to understand. So it's gotta be put in a framework where you answer a few other questions as well and you have to juxtapose the event itself against everything else so that it makes some kind of sense in a bigger picture, which is a hard thing to do. And it took my brother and I about...and a guy called Randall Wallace, plus my brother and I, took us six, seven years to write it. So are you doing this with historians as well? Are you trying to make it... Yeah, yeah, historical stuff. Well, I regard the Gospel as history, it's a verifiable history. Some people say, oh, it's a fairy tale. He never existed, but he did. And there are other

accounts, verifiable historical accounts, outside the biblical ones that also bear this up that, yes, he did exist. And the other aspect of that is that the all the evangelists the Apostles who went out there every single one of those guys died rather than deny their belief and nobody dies for a lie nobody all right so that's part of what I'm doing it's like showing nobody dies for a lie yeah Yeah. Well, the resurrection is the one that is the most difficult for people to swallow. Yes. That's the one that requires the most faith. The most faith and the most belief, yeah, resurrection.

Yeah. Who gets back up three days later after he gets murdered in public, who gets back up under his own power? Buddha didn't do that shit. Right. You believe that was a real event? Yeah, I do. What brought you to that belief? Is this something you've always had? Or is it something you studied it and you've come to this conclusion because of the

historical accounts? Yes. I think as a child, you know, one accepts things on faith because you know You're raised by people who are nice to you and they believe it and my dad was a pretty smart guy He was like Mensa smart, you know like real smart Like back in 1968 he won Jeopardy, right? And then really and then they brought all the Jeopardy winners back and he played all the winners and he beat all of them, too so he had a mind like a steel trap and His memory was practically photographic

My memory is pornographic, but it's like his was like I don't have that that kind of mind, right? But I'm more like he did math and you know, I can't add but So as a child you learn these things and you accept them on faith and I still have that faith but as I got older I came to it through intellect and through reading and putting things together and accounts and then occurrences like in my own life you know I mean just recently they verified the Shroud of Turin. Have you seen that? I've been reading about it and I know that there's some contention, there's some

some discussion and debate about it, but they used to think that it was only a couple hundred years old. Yeah. And now they've changed that. Yeah they've said no it's back then. They also don't understand how it was made which to to me is very fascinating, because it's not paint. They don't know what caused the image itself and how that technology would have even been available a couple thousand years ago. An intense light, I mean atomic, to leave almost like a photographic imprint on a piece of cloth.

And it's wild. Pull that up. Pull the shroud of Turin up. Oh, yeah. It's wild to look at because it's so interesting. Oh, yeah. And you can see it that it depicts a first century Hebrew male because the hairstyle was from the first century and a Hebrew hairstyle

that he was about six feet tall, that he was completely scourged all over his body. He was crucified. That's it there. Yeah, the one on the left is it? The one on the right is just like an artistic rendition. That's the face. Yeah, click on that one, the face. The face, yeah, that's good enough. Get that large. That's fucking crazy. Yeah, yeah. Scourged, beaten, a crap. that one the face the face yeah that's good enough get that large that's fucking crazy

yeah yeah scourged beaten yeah crap the wounds on the thorns the hands and the scourging and the the the hairstyle was from the first century and the pollens that they found in the cloth were from that region yeah also the weave was a first century weave that was typical and another guy, an archaeologist who I knew who actually translated the passion in Aramaic, told me that if you look close you can see that the image of a Tiberius coin marks on the eyes. Now, I don't know if that's real or not. I've never actually checked that, but that there's images of Tiberius on the coin. So they would put the coins over the eyes?

Yeah, so that would date it. But they have now verified that it does actually go back to that time period. For a while they were testing pieces that had been repaired in the 13th century or, you know. What is the latest on that, Jamie? Can you see, like... I was trying to get to...

I have two different articles from within the last six months saying opposite things. Yeah, opposite. Of course. Digging into which one sounded the most accurate. Well, it's such a crazy thing to even try to verify. Yeah. But what are you saying? Are you saying that this is really the shroud

that Jesus was covered in? So you're saying Jesus historically absolutely did exist and we think that this is the shroud that covered him. Just that alone. In credulity, people's immediately, their hackles raise, like, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. And they just, instead of looking at it objectively, they almost always want to look at it from a point of view of disproving it immediately, dismissing it immediately. But that's science, isn't it? You have to sort of play the devil's advocate.

And that's OK. Go for it. Are you aware of Graham Hancock? Oh, no. Graham Hancock is sort of a historian that has a very, he's got a series on Netflix. He's a fascinating guy. And his career started because he was investigating these accounts in Ethiopia of the Ark of the Covenant.

And that they believe the Ark of the Covenant is in this one church that's protected by all these monks that wind up getting cataracts and radiation disease and sickness. And they think that it's because they're protecting this Ark of the Covenant, this actual thing, that it's an actual physical thing that's there. Darrell Bock And if you touch it, you get zapped. Yeah. Yeah. And that even being in its presence fucks these people up. Darrell Bock Maybe.

Maybe. Who knows? I mean, it's got to be someplace, right? They buried it. They lost track of it. Yeah, but man it used to be and And all the stories are have even touched it you fall over. Mm-hmm, you know, because it was instructed electrically somehow Yeah, like what is that? What's in there? Yeah, what was it giving people cancer if they're really protecting it? I think it's the actual structure of the container it's in that is the problem. That's my thought. I could be wrong. But I think inside it they have things from like when Moses was like manna and stuff like

that that they manage to keep from, like for example, they say that Golgotha, the place where the crucifixion happened, it's called Golgotha, the place of the skull, because that's where Adam's head is buried. Really? Yes. And that it's also perhaps the same place. And it tells you it's kind of in the same area where Abraham almost sacrifices Isaac. Oh.

So it's interesting. Yeah. And it's, and the cross, when in any artistic depiction, at the foot of the cross underneath it is the skull representing the skull of Adam. Huh. So it's interesting. Yeah. Yeah there it is. Yeah. That's the skull of Adam, huh? Yep. Wow. Place of the skull memory myth in the Chapel of Adam. What did you find on the shroud of Torren, Jamie? Both those articles just asked like one person like one researcher thought it was another researcher based off of their research said it wasn't. Can you put it to the one that thought it was? So the one who

thought it was... Does date to the time of Jesus? A nuclear researcher? Jesus Christ. The other one was like an AI artist from Brazil. So I don't know who has the most... So it says, study published in the journal Heritage, the authors conducted dating work on a sample from the shroud, coming to the conclusion that it may be a 2,000 year old relic. The shroud was long been the subject of intense scrutiny, features a faint image of a man, some believe is theic. The shroud was long been the subject of intense scrutiny, features a faint image of a man Some believe is the body of Jesus miraculously imprinted onto the cloth while the latest study does not discuss The question whether or not the artifact was indeed Jesus's burial shroud

Specifically the authors did find its age is roughly consistent with his time Yeah Yeah, I think isn't the Smithsonian guy all for it? I don't know. Maybe that's him. I don't know. But Yeah. There's for and against. There's always been. Yeah, always. It's just... But the image is like... Yeah, it's pretty crazy. Yeah, whatever it is is pretty crazy. And the fact that they don't know how they made it is also pretty crazy. It's not a painting.

Nope. Not exactly sure how it even came about. Yeah, it had to have been some kind of intense light. Well, the thought was that even trying to replicate something like that today would be incredibly difficult to do. Sure, it's like an x-ray vision. It's like an x-ray.

That's what it, you only see, you really see it in the negative only. Right, right, it's like a x-ray vision. It's like an x-ray. That's what it... You only see... you really see it in the negative only. Right. Right. It's like a negative. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, I buy it. But that's not the only reason I buy it. I mean, I think, you know, there's other logical reasons why I... why I believe. So... Like what are those? Oh, okay. Stuff that happens in your own life the results you get from actually appealing to a power greater than

yourself you know and I mean I don't think it's any secret I am flawed in the fact that I am by nature born an alcoholic, right? I did drugs, I did alcohol, so and there was nothing that could stop me from doing that. Nothing. So I was really kind of on, you're on a downhill run. So I regard the fact that I was able to appeal to something greater than myself to help me and Actually stop me doing that. I think that's a miracle. Hmm. It is for me it is and for many You know, so well that is the thing about a right? It's a part of the whole process is appealing to a higher power. Sure

It's a spiritual program because you're suffering your spiritual malady, you know, yeah, so it's a spiritual cure And that's the essence I think of why it works Because you can't explain it. Otherwise, I mean as you well you kind of can but I Think what you're being asked to do is to think about other people and other things more than yourself because it's kind of an ego disease. Yeah. So, if you...

That is the problem with addiction, right? It's very narcissistic. Very narcissistic. Because you're constantly thinking about yourself and what you need. I need a drink. I need a bump. I need a lot. You know, I need something. Sure. I need... And no matter what you need, it's a drink, I need a bump, I need something.

Sure, I need it. And no matter what you need, it's never going to be enough. Right. So you actually have to appeal to something outside that you consider bigger and better than yourself, which instantly kind of pushes you more in the direction of humility because you're not the center of the universe anymore and that you can't do it. And the first step in any of that sort of stuff is accepting that you are powerless over it. That's the first, that's the most powerful step you can do is that you're powerless. When you realize that, you're like, okay, there's fuck all I can

do about this. I have to appeal to something better than me and that to me is a miracle Yeah, yeah. Well, it's a very uniquely human thing the ability to course-correct and also just the concept of addiction in the first place Sure, you know, it's a very uniquely human thing that we all know There's dark roads our mind can go down and then we wonder like what is the purpose of these dark thoughts? dark roads our mind can go down and then we wonder like what is the purpose of these dark thoughts what is the purpose of this destructive behavior that we're all prone to in some way shape or form what is the purpose of everything yeah right

i mean why am i here what's the meaning of this yeah i'm looking for purpose and and uh... what is it we're here for i think you know we have to leave some stuff but you have to leave some good stuff. You can leave plenty of bad stuff, you know? And we're all prone that way. I often think about, you know, the human race as a whole. You know, you think about guys like, you know, Stalin or Hitler or Chairman Mao or the...

And I'm pretty sure I'm not going to be sharing a cell in the afterlife with those guys You know, right? I don't know where I'll be on the ladder but Depends on how you end up right? Well, that's it. Yeah, it really is Yeah, it's like, you know and we're allowed to make mistakes and we do we are so flawed and I am I more flawed than anyone, you know, but it's something that you, I think, and it's pretty safe to say I'm in the third act now. You're in act two, right? It goes through and tight. But I'm like, I'm in the third act, man. So you

have to think about the other side. You have to think about what comes next. Is there a next? Yes, there is. I believe there is. And I think it depends on how you live now. And the beauty of believing is that even for your transgressions, you can be forgiven and you can be redeemed but it's all up here. Right. You know. It's the true acceptance and understanding of what you've done and what you should do. Sure. You have to look at yourself honestly.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely, honestly, you have to be able to accuse yourself and understand that there is, it's a great deal of mercy involved in the fact that I believe that God sent His Son down to tell us, okay, I'm going to ransom you people from your fallen nature and I'll give you a roadmap on how to do it. And people do it. There's even people that do it that have never even heard of it. Some guy in the jungle someplace, I'm sure. Right. You know, because the Creator is above the law. I mean, it's an interesting fact to note that the first canonized saint, you know who it was? No. The

first ever confirmed canonization as a saint was Dismas. You know You know who dismissed was? No. He was hanging, he was the thief on the cross next to Jesus. And he says to him, you're going to be okay. This day, you'll be with me. Unbaptized criminal, all that stuff. So, the lawmaker is above the law. So there's a lot of mercy. What about people that never experienced Christianity? What about the uncontacted people? That's right, that's what I'm saying. Some guy in the jungle, it's been known that it's called invincible ignorance because they don't know what the truth is. Mm-hmm. You know, it's possible that they can be saved as well. You know. So what are your thoughts on evolution? Hmm. Wow.

Eh. The Darwin thing? Yeah. I don't really go for it. No? Yeah. Ice age dinosaurs, you know, what did they turn into? I mean, things became extinct at some point. I don't think I was some kind of like, you know,

legless thing that crawled out of the ocean. I don't think I came from that. I think I was created Do you think other things? Were legless things that came out of the ocean do you think like multi-celled organisms came out of single-celled organisms? and there was some sort of a Natural selection and random mutation and it led to everything else, but us Sure look at gain of function. Right.

You can like, you can make stuff happen. I'm sure stuff did happen. But I think it's all part of creation. I think it's all ordered. I think anything left to itself without some kind of intelligence behind it will devolve into chaos. And so that there has to be some big intelligence that orchestrates everything.

Not that we don't have chaos in the world, but I think that's our own making. But what do you think separates us from all the other creatures? Wow. I think we have a soul. We're created with a soul. And, I think we have a soul. We're created with a soul. And you know, I went to a restaurant last night. It was a steakhouse in Austin. And it was interesting because all the pictures on the wall are pictures of animals that look resentful, like cows and steers staring at you looking angry as you rip into a steak. But I just believe we are higher than those creatures because we have a soul, we have an intellect above theirs, and we aspire to higher things. We have aspirations. And this is part of why people drink and smoke

and do dope and all this kind of stuff is because they're looking for a spiritual experience. They're looking for, like they actually call alcohol spirits. I mean, they're looking for something higher. And I think we all have that yearning in that we want to be happy and we want to be at peace and we want everything to be hunky-dory. So there's this yearning in building all of us for that to aspire to something greater. And that's why we're inspired by stories, I think, because it's like, you know, hero stories.

You know, Joseph Campbell's stuff, the hero with a thousand faces and stuff. It's like these stories inspire us. I was at a party the other day in Tennessee, and you think, Tennessee, what's going to happen there? It's going to be squeal like a pig? No. Man, there's some people that live in Tennessee, but like amazing people. And I found myself in a conversation with four tier one dudes, all of who did something extraordinary. And it was that Tom Slattersley guy, it was the Black Hawk Down guy.

There was Sean Ryan, who's, he's got, you probably heard of this guy. Yeah, friend of his. Yeah, right? Yeah. There was a guy called Christian Craighead. You know who that guy is no whoa and then there was Eddie They wrote a book about him

Yeah, yeah, Eddie Gallagher. I was talking to four of these guys at the same time and I didn't know who did Who do you even talk to? But their stories are amazing Especially and the one guy I ended up talking to was an SAS guy British SAS He just looks like a bank teller but he did something extraordinary and incredibly brave and

And with no regard for himself only regard for other people and it was like whoa you hear these stories and it's sort of just like it pumps you up you think would I could I do that could I be that person I don't know if I could I don't in a way I don't even want to ever find out because you have to be in an extreme situation right but but hearing about other people and how they behave in situations that are difficult is very inspiring. So, you know, it's a, yeah, there's so many of those stories around and through history. Well, that's another unique thing about human beings is that we learn from others in a very

extraordinary way. And that's one of the reasons why we like stories yeah why we like myths and fables because there's there's lessons you can apply to your own life without having to actually go through those things yeah well that's right I made a film about that guy Desmond Doss you know I don't know if you saw it was like Hacksaw Ridge it was this film and it was about a medic who figured so much killing going on, he's going to go into the battlefield and save lives and he didn't have a weapon. And he was in the worst place on earth. And he got a congressional medal of honor because he kept going in to the worst place possible and dragging wounded guys out.

With no regard for himself. I mean, who does that kind of stuff? And over and over again, he didn't just do it once. He did it hundreds of times. He finally got hit with shrapnel and a bunch of other stuff, but he lived to be an old man. But wow! And it was just pure faith. You know, so, you know, those guys at those kind of stories inspire the hell out of me. Anyway. So when back to this idea of evolution, so

do you believe that evolution exists in animals? Or do you think there's some sort of a natural selection process or do you think that it is all intelligent design? Well, I think everything was created, right? And maybe things do move on and adapt and change through time, but I think that that's a function of an intelligence also and I mean look at the fires in LA you know I mean what's that gonna do it's gonna give me a new house you know maybe maybe and our a new place to live yeah something yeah I'm just not totally convinced I feel it in my and I can't

really I'm sorry I can't intellectually tell you why I don't believe in evolution, but I don't. It's just a feeling. I don't think I was some ape, or I don't think my ancestors were. I think they had to be pretty smart to survive. So what do you think all these pre-human hominids are that they keep discovering? Like, what... tell me what a pre-human hominid is. Like Australiopithecus or some of the other human-like creatures that never made it, like Denisovans, Neanderthals. Yeah, yeah, stuff like that. Okay, well they've got something called Zinjanthropus, you remember him? No. Zinjanthropus man, and he was like, hmm, you look kind of like this. But it was like they looked at it and they did some core samples on it. And it was put out there by people advocating

evolution. And they discovered that it was a human skull attached to the jaw of an ape. Oh, I do remember this. So it was a hoax. Yeah, there's been some hoaxes. Yeah. Yeah. But there's also been real stuff. Really? Yeah. You don't think so well, maybe well

What do you know like? I don't know tell me well. What was that one that we looked at the other day that was one of the first Pre-humans that buried their their their young or bird. They're dead rather was a homo. No no no no no no D What was it? Remember that I Can't remember how to say it but No lady. Yeah Pre-human hominid very small creature that buried their young or buried their dead rather. I keep saying brother young they buried their dead

You know Australia Pythagoras. There's there's a bunch of different, you know, the Lucy skeleton. There's a bunch of different pre-human hominids. Yeah, maybe they're monkeys. I don't know. Yeah. Well, they're similar to us, just not where we are. They're on the road to becoming what it means to be a human being. Yeah, I don't know.

I don't know. What do you think those are? I don't know. They could be animals, or they could be like, look at today. I mean, you can get some mosquito can bite you and your kid can be born with a malformed skull or something. It's like, you know, they have those, you know. Yeah.

But this is like a genetic thing. Like they've done, they've mapped the genome of these creatures. Oh, they have? They're different. Yeah. Well, I don't know how to. Oh, they have? They're different. Yeah. Well, I don't know how to explain those, Joe. I don't know. But you do think that human beings were created by God.

I do. When do you think that happened? When? Probably not that long ago. Really? No, not really. What do you mean by not that long ago? Probably only about 8,000 years ago. Really? Yeah. So what do you mean by not that long ago? Probably only about 8,000 years ago.

Really? Yeah. So what do you think things like Gobekli Tepe are when they find these constructions that are carbon dated to 11,000 plus years old? I question carbon dating. Really? Yeah. Well, that makes things a lot simpler.

Well, yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of money in you know claims and Water's there Well carbon dating seems to be pretty rock-solid studies, yeah, I mean science the science behind Radiocarbon dating and detecting carbon isotopes. It's like that's pretty yeah pretty legit Yeah, I It's like, that's pretty legit. Yeah. I don't know, I can't square it. Yeah, well you don't have to.

And I don't have to. And what difference is it gonna make to me? Yeah, that's the thing. It doesn't make a difference in terms of your experience in this life on Earth. No. Like you can have your faith and your ideas and live a great life from beginning to end and it might not suit you to really ponder evolution and all the puzzles and problems.

It doesn't. And I just like, you know, I look at all sorts of stuff like that, like, you know, the icebergs melting melting and water overflowing. It's not. Ever have a glass full of ice and watch it melt? Did you ever see the glass flow over? No. It takes up less room. Yeah.

The hot greenhouse, whatever. Well there's a lot of horse shit that's involved in climate change for sure. I've studied that and I've had many discussions over the last four years. The problem with anything is that once a narrative gets established and then there's a profit attached to the solution to that narrative. Yes. And that's green energy and green energy bills and there's businesses that are wrapped around there and then there's also this fear that they love to pump into people about climate change that you know they terrify the shit out of young people

that we're gonna destroy the world and climate change you must act now and then you become beholden to the political party that it's espousing these ideas and then your enemy is the deniers of this science even though you don't even understand the science. Yeah. Did you see the Washington Post article that they published recently about temperature change on earth? No. Well there's a down, like what they've realized is over the last you know X amount of thousands of years that the temperature on Earth is plummeting. Yeah. And it's dropping and then when they look at the the dips, this is the

most important thing for anybody that's really freaked out about climate change There's no static temperature of Earth ever There's never been a time where it maintains a temperature until human beings came along and fucked it all up That is just not real before human beings ever existed if you trust these core samples There's been a giant rise and fall and this constant dip. There it is. Yeah. Scientists have captured Earth's climate over the last 485 million years. Here's a surprising place we stand now. Look at the dip at the end.

Whoa. That's where we are. That's reality. Okay. And then if you look at the course of history, you look at the rise and fall, like it's never a straight line. Way before human beings ever existed, if you believe these silly people. Way before human beings had ever existed. There's always this rise and fall, and

this idea that the whole thing is based on carbon emissions from human beings is total bullshit. It's not true. We might be having an effect, but we're having a small effect, a very small effect. And the other things are completely outside of our control, including solar activity, the distance between the earth and the sun. You know, there's a lot of factors. There's all sorts of factors involving natural activities like volcanic emissions You know which devastate you know the entire human race was knocked down to a few thousand people Yeah at one point in time because the toba volcano. Oh my god. Yes. Yeah, no light. Yeah, no light for years Yeah, good luck. Yeah, good luck and the people that survive are fucking barbarians Yeah, this most savage and then it takes a long time before they can

figure out civilization again after that. It's like dinosaurs. They just stop. Mm-hmm. So what do they evolve into? Chickens. I guess. Birds, raptors.

Well, they think a lot of dinosaurs had feathers now. Yeah. That's the newest thing. Yeah. Maybe. You don't think so? I don't know. I need to take a pee. I'm so desperate. OK. Let's take a pee. Let's take a pee. We'll take a break.? I don't know, I need to take a pee.

I'm so desperate. Okay, let's take a pee. Let's take a pee. We'll take a break. I need to take a pittle. It's a nice picture. That's gotta be a moment in your head where you're just like every now and then,

just going, fuck. Yeah, yeah. It is funny. Yeah. But it was a good picture. The only thing that was going through my head was, okay, I just can't look bad. And I didn't have any no grooming implements. So I just tried my best to not look too bad. There you go. Yeah, you talk about humility. Like, what gives you more humility

than being publicly humiliated? Sure. Public humiliation. And you know what? For most people, it is their number one fear is public humiliation. Yeah. Yeah.

Public speaking and because of that, public humiliation. Sure. Yeah. Happens all the time. Because we're so concerned about other people's opinions of us. I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Because we're not sure of our own opinions of us. Well, we've been through a lot. Well, so have you. Yeah. I mean, I remember, you know, I think they were giving you a grilling once for taking horseworm medicine. Yeah, funny. Yeah. Funny how that works. Yeah, funny how that works. Funny how that does work. Yeah what's really funny is how that was that a part of the demise of mainstream media because people were like well this is crazy this doesn't make are you guys really the news like what is this? Yes I know. You know it seemed to be They seem to be complicit with a 100%.

And you think, well, why? Well, why? Because of money. I think this is what we were talking about before, that there is good and evil. And sometimes it manifests itself in a very clear and obvious way. And I think that's what that was. That was evil. That was putting people's lives second and putting money first. Well, I don't know why Fauci is still walking around. How is that guy still walking around? Just people understand the history of the AIDS crisis and what that guy did back then. Did you read that book?

Yeah. Yeah, I read the book. I listened to it. Yeah, I did too. I drove up to San Francisco and I listened to it and I had road rage. Oh yeah. And it was like, whoa whoa how is he still there how was first of all people that don't believe it how come RFK jr. didn't get

sued yeah how come there's no lawsuits if there was lies there would be lawsuits no but that's it would be publicly humiliated instead they kept that book off bestseller lists that book sold millions of copies I know they hit it that's when you find out that bestseller lists are actually curated. It's not really bestseller. It's censored. It's all censored. Everything's censored. But that book is an accurate depiction of what Anthony Fauci did during the AIDS crisis, which probably was an AZT crisis. Yeah.

It was an AIDS crisis. I mean, it's fairly incontrovertible now that he was fooling with gain of function. One hundred percent. And you know, it's a, you know, what is the, why is he still around? Or at least free. Right, right. And no repercussions. Yeah, whatever happened to that story where, you know, the wombat and the weasel got together

and they were horsing around and a bat pissed on them with a golden shower, you know, and all of a sudden it was in a wet market. Yeah. Very wet market. You got, you know. Complete total horse shit. Totally. And the scientists that we're supposed to trust,

they're pitching that horse shit. It was like the AIDS thing. Some green monkey bit of quanta steward on the ass. Then he went around the world and got everybody sick, and it was like, you know, ridiculous. If you want to go through the AIDS rabbit hole, look up a guy named Peter Duesberg. Oh yes, I know. I read that you want to go to the AIDS rabbit hole, look up a guy named Peter Duesberg. Oh, yes, I know.

I read that book. Yeah, that is crazy. He's telling the truth. This is the fucking COVID crisis times a thousand. I had him on the podcast way back in the day. It was one of the earlier guests that I had. It was like way back in like 2010. It was one of the first times I got openly attacked

for someone being on the podcast. They were like, blood is on your hands. I'm like, first of all, no, it's not. It's 2010, who's dying of AIDS? Zero people, so stop. It's not blood's on your hand. Like if this guy's correct, he's a tenured professor at the University of California, Berkeley,

who is like, his work on cancer is, you know, everybody thinks it's groundbreaking work, brilliant doctor, but he was a heretic. His work on cancer is, you know, everybody thinks it's groundbreaking work, brilliant doctor, but he was a heretic. He was a guy who stood outside of Fauci's doctrine and the narrative and he said, I don't believe that HIV is what's causing this when all these people that are having these immune systems are all heavy drug users. You know, he's like, I think this is a disease of a decimation of the immune system due to heavy drug use.

And then on top of that, you're prescribing this chemical, this AZT, that kills people. They stopped using it for chemotherapy because it was killing them quicker than cancer was. I was in the Sydney Theatre Company in the 90s. And I was going to a funeral once a month of friends they were all dying it's crazy and then in the 80s and 90s and they were all getting AZT yeah maybe yeah I don't know well the ones that were getting AZT even the ones that were asymptomatic like Magic Johnson they were giving Magic Johnson AZT he had to stop taking it yeah because he was making him sick

It was killing him. Yeah. Yeah, I read it and like it's even with RFK's book and and he's an amazing guy people say He's kooky. He's crazy. He's not crazy. He's not he's he's one of the most erudite, you know, he's they say he's an anti-vaxxer He's not he's not he's like he's he's he's a very shrewd. He's never lost a case, I don't think, when he brings something to suit. I don't think he's ever been defeated. But that book is not just him. It's him and about a thousand highly qualified scientists and physicians commenting on the whole situation. So when you read it, it's a pretty convincing document. And you're right, nobody sued him for it. It's a pretty convincing document and you're right. Nobody sued him for it. Yeah, you know, it's pretty scary Well, not not only do they not assume their their response is to try to ignore it. They don't want to debate him on it

They don't want to do anything No They want to just ignore it and hope it goes away But it doesn't go away and the more people talk about it the more people read it and when you do read it and you go If this is true, what the fuck is going on and how is that monster still loose? This is true. What the fuck is going on? And how is that monster still loose? Yeah.

Oh. And he seems like a monster. The way he talks about things. He just seems. But first of all, there's so many instances of him lying. There's so many, like, where he said one thing, two years later it turns out to be a lie. Said one, like, whether it is the natural- The mask thing.

Yeah. The mask thing, whether it's the natural spillover, the lies about gain of function to Congress. Sure. When he was lying to Rand Paul about whether or not they did gain of function research. How was that not perjury? How is he not in trouble? Yeah.

Well, hey, other mysteries. Well, then the Biden administration is now talking about taking that guy and and giving him a full pardon It's like yeah fucking crazy. Yeah, they might You know, I gave hundred apart Yeah, but but hunters 100 is need a pardon. Was he indicted? Well, I mean he was in trouble for tax evasion. No, I see there's a lot of tax problems. He definitely did some uncool things. And then there's the Burisma thing. But the crazy thing about his pardon is it starts at the time of him being involved in Burisma. So it's from 2011 all the way to today. That's

what he pardoned him. It's the biggest sweeping pardon than anyone's ever received ever And Biden's pardoned more people than anybody ever to yeah, he was already over 8,000 people pardoned Yeah, a lot of criminals on death row and stuff Well, there's that and but then there's also people that like the kids for cash judges You know where they were locking up kids and putting them in Child detention centers because they wanted money and they were locking up kids and putting them in child detention centers because they wanted money and they were doing it for kickbacks. Yeah, I saw that.

Evil. It was a documentary. Yeah, evil. Again, what we're talking about, good and evil. Yeah. Like, these are real things and rational people that profess themselves to be intelligent and secular, they don't want to believe in good and evil. They don't think that they're, they just think people do bad things, people

have motivations, they do bad things, but they don't want to believe in the concept of good and evil, because these are biblical concepts. They are. Right? Yeah. And I, you know, they've been around since the beginning. And people want to pretend they're smarter than the people that sort of embrace these biblical concepts. Right, or yeah, I think that goes into evolution. Are we smarter than our grandparents? You

know? I don't know. Well, we are about some things, but we can't survive the way they did. Nope. They are obviously intelligent. It's just they didn't have access to information the way we do. But there's a difference between information and intelligence. Sure. Yeah. I don't have many devices for information. I read books.

I read mostly history books. Yeah? Yeah. Oh, I got a recommended book to you. OK. It's fascinating. And it's called The Frontiersman. And it's about a guy called Simon Kenton.

You ever hear of this guy? No. Whoa. And it was written by a guy who's now deceased. His name is Alan Eckert. And it is really about opening up Ohio and Kentucky and places like that with this guy, Simon Kenton, who was just an Irish immigrant. He wasn't much for farming and stuff but he thought he killed a guy and so he ran away because

he thought he'd be indicted for some crime or something and he ended up being this frontiersman and it is it's a very interesting document because you get the history of what was going on at the time when the country was opening up between the settlers and the Indians, you know, the Shawnee. One of the most brutal books I've ever read. Really? Oh, it's very well done. And it has a narrative, but it's reconstructed from all kinds of historical documents and letters and diaries and all this kind of stuff.

So I think the guy took about 15 years to sort of compile all this stuff and write it. And the first half of the book is about this guy, Simon Kenton. And the second half is about Tecumseh, you know, the chief. Really great book. One of the one of the most fascinating books I've read. You can't put it down. Really? Yep. Because it's just like little chapters.

I'm going to get that right now. Have you ever read The Empire of the Summer Moon? No. The Empire of the Summer Moon is about the Comanche. Oh yeah. And it's all about the settling of this area. It's fucking incredible. Again, one of the most brutal books ever. So this is The Frontiersman? The Frontiersman by Alan Eckert.

Yeah. I'm going to check that right now, just so that I make sure that I have it. Yeah. And it's all in little bite-sized chunks and it actually for a history book it has this incredible narrative with heroes and villains and and all the players very interesting document I'm getting it right now oh yeah don't read it before bed. No? No, it gets pretty dark. Why are you so drawn to history? I don't know. I think because maybe I'm trying to learn something.

It's been about 80 years since the last big war. Alan Eckert got it. I think I just want to learn. you know, I mean, my dad went to World War II. He went to Guadalcanal, right? He got bit by mosquitoes. He had, you know, malaria, which is interesting to note that he used to take hydroxychloroquine and he'd get a malaria attack. And then when I tried, when my doctor recommended I get it when I had COVID they gouged me 800

It used to cost him 30 bucks They wanted 800 bucks for They were gouging. Well, not only that when Trump talked about it then they all of a sudden They demonized it. Yeah. Yeah, they laughed. Yeah, which is crazy because it's an antiviral. It works. Yeah, it works on malaria Yeah, yeah, and people have been taking it forever. Sure, pregnant women can take it if they have the flu and it doesn't hurt the baby, you know, it's pretty safe. It's like ivermectin.

But that's what's so bizarre about the time that we just went through because there's more information now available to people instantaneously than ever before. You look it up on your phone, instantly know, oh, ivermectin, the guy who created it won the Nobel Prize. Yeah, 2014. Yeah, 15. Yeah, for use in human beings. Yeah. So what the fuck is going on? Yeah. Like, who's running this thing? And it's harmless. And it wasn't made for horses. It was made for people. And then they used it for horses. Right.

Right. So it's like saying penicillin is for horses, because they use that on horses too. Like, that's stupid. They told me it was for moldy bread. That's what it was from, yeah. But I mean, there's a lot of medications used on animals too. You can't say it's a veterinary medication just because it's also used on animals. No, that's true.

It's been used on literally prescribed billions of times on human beings. Yeah, it's like the stem cell stuff. They started using it on horses with emphysematic lung conditions, race horses, because they would bleed. And they got the stem cells from the umbilical cords of their offspring, injected into them, and it healed their lungs, which is part of my story, because I smoked for 45 years and

I couldn't stop. And I read this silly book by Alan Carr, not the little guy who, you know, managed the village people in the caftan, the little fat guy, but no, this other guy, Alan Carr. And he wrote this book. And it's the only thing that made me stop. It worked like crazy. But the book made you stop? Like what was? The book made me stop. What was in the book? I read this book. It was the book called The Easy Way to Stop Smoking.

And it's a silly title, right? And it was sad, and my son gave it to me. He said, stop smoking, dad. Here's this book. I left it on. I used to walk past the bookshelf, and go, dumb book, dumb title. And then I finally, my doctor said,

you have first stage emphysema. And I'm like, you've got to be kidding me. He says, yeah, you've got to get the smut. I said, yeah, I better read this book. So I read the book and I stopped. Right, so it was, I think it was like neuro-linguistic programming or something like that. You read it and you're kind of self-hypnotized yourself,

but it worked. What did the book tell you? It said, it didn't tell you you're bad, you're gonna die, it didn't tell you all that sort of stuff. It was like, I mean they had things like, maybe I'm blowing it, but they had a chapter where it says,

okay, we focused on the negative aspects of smoking, now we're gonna talk about the good aspects of smoking in the next chapter. And then you turn the page and the page is empty. And it's just a trick. It's a mind trick. The whole thing was a mind trick, but it worked. And I don't know why it worked.

But it was sort of like self-hypnosis while you're reading the book. And it wasn't a negative thing like, I gotta stop this, it's bad, it's bad, I'm scared. It wasn't even that. In fact, if I hadn't had the stem cells afterwards, my lungs completely healed from that, by the way. Did it do it intravenously? Yeah intravenous and it gets stuck in your lungs and it's just dr. Reardon. That was reardon Yeah, we talked. Yeah. Yeah, it worked

Some cells are incredible and the fact that you can't get them the way they can get them in overseas We can get it in Panama where Reardon has this clinic and Tijuana. They're getting better here They're getting better, but there's so much resistance because of the FDA. And the resistance is purely because of money. Again, it's an evil thing. It's not because they're not effective. It's not because they're dangerous. It's just because of money.

I think so. There's an agenda. I think pharma wants to keep you on stuff. They want to sell you something. So if there's a surefire cure for something, it's not necessarily hailed. No. Well, and then there's also the problem with the media. The media's lockstep in with these businesses that

are promoting these things. Yes. And they're not giving you information. They're giving you propaganda before they're giving you information. Propaganda is more important to them than information. And that's what's crazy. It's like, we're counting on you guys and you fucked us.

You fucked us for four years with this COVID thing. And now you expect us to listen to you about the fucking swine flu or the bird flu or whatever other thing you're trying to freak us out about, which always coincides with some sort of a political event. Like here it is, the inauguration of the new president and oh look at this there's a new disease what do we got now what is it do you think there will be well there is there's this fucking swine flu h5 n1 whatever i thought it was bird flu one bird flu one person died one person in america first person died, 65 years old

with a bunch of comorbidities. Yeah, okay. Which is usually what it is. But by the way, 65 people with a bunch of comorbidities die all the time of nothing. They die of anything. I mean, this is like a car that's fallen apart and you run over a nail and oh, the nail killed the car.

No, that car was falling the fuck apart. The nail you ran over was the last nail in the coffin, but the thing was the car. I know that car was falling the fuck apart. Like the nail you ran over was the last nail in the coffin, but the thing was falling apart. I got COVID from my gardener. And he had it first, and then I got it. I was like, ah, did I grab the hose or what, you know, all this, I don't know. But it was, I knew the guy for 20 years,

and we both went to the same hospital, and he died and I didn't. Jesus. I think we both got remdesivir, which is not good. Not good. Causes kidney failure. I know.

I couldn't walk for three months after I had that stuff. Really? Because it kills you. I found out afterwards it kills you, and that's why I wonder about Fauci, you know. Oh, you should wonder about that guy. Yeah. When meanwhile, they were trying to stop people from getting monoclonal antibodies. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah They've restricted monoclonal antibodies Which is fucking insane because they wanted to promote that vaccine because they wanted a profit off of it

Which brings us back again to evil evils real it's real putting money over human lives is evil I agree. It's a real thing and there's a temptation to do it too, which is even more crazy. I don't believe that there is anything that can afflict mankind that hasn't got a natural cure for it. I think that there has to be. It just makes sense to me. Now, I couldn't prove that, but I just believe that. That there's gotta be something that cures things. And I'll tell you a good story.

I have three friends. All three of them had stage four cancer. All three of them don't have cancer right now at all. And they had some serious stuff going on. And what did they take? Jesus. They took some, what you've heard they've taken. Ivermectin. Phenbendazole.

Phenbendazole, yeah. That stuff. Yeah, I'm hearing that a lot. They drank hydrochloride, something or other. There's studies on that now where people have proven that they've... People are drinking methylene blue and stuff like that. Yeah Yeah, Methylene Blue which was a fabric dye. Yeah. It was a textile dye. They find it has profound effects on your mitochondria. Yep. Yeah. This stuff works, man. There's a lot of stuff that does work which is

very strange because again it's profit when you when you hear about things that are demonized and then it turned out to be effective you always wonder well what is going on here how is how is our medical institutions how have they failed us so that things that do cure you are not promoted because they're not profitable that they can't control it they don't have a patent on it, whether it's vitamin D, K2, and magnesium, you know. Well, yeah. Zinc and quercetin.

I do all that stuff. I do all that stuff. Did you do the BRCA thing? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Me too. I lost like 30 pounds, right? I do all that stuff.

It's fantastic. I was talking to Dana and he said, oh, you know, I was, you know, and he, and I said, yeah, I got to do something about this. I'm like, I'm 5'10", 235, you know? That's too fat. So I had to sort of roll it back some. Now I'm under 200, which is about where it should be. And it was that Breckes stuff. No, Gary's a national treasure.

And he gets shit on all over the place, too. Oh, sure. Going to sauna, but I feel better. Oh, yeah. Oh, I do all that stuff. Yeah, yeah. Cold plunge, sauna. I, but I feel better. Oh yeah, oh I do all that stuff. Yeah, yeah. Cold plunge, sauna, I'm ritualistic with it. Yeah, that's good.

It's part of my everyday life. I hear your cold plunge is like 34 degrees, I don't understand that though, I mean dude 34 degrees, whoa. Yeah it's cold. That's hardcore. Yeah, you get accustomed to it, it to me is not I mean it sucks every time I do it I'm like don't do it. Don't there's like the part of me. That's like my inner bitch Yeah, we don't have to do this. We don't have to do this

But luckily the general is stronger than the inner bitch The general is always telling shut the fuck up and get in there and I just get in there every day But I do like 48 and inner bitches always talking though. He never shuts up No, never shuts up. Don't ever think that it like even though I do it every day anybody's like, I don't know how you do it I don't know how I do it either, but I fucking do it. I make sure I do it. I just I'm the boss Yeah, do you do the saunas too? Oh, yeah, the red light bed. I have a red light bed. Yeah, I have a sauna red light bed I have a hyperbaric chamber. Wow. I have everything. Okay. Hyperbaric chambers are the best, man.

Yeah. It's incredible. Incredible. Good brain work. I got to get back in there. I feel like I got more holes in my head. It's phenomenal for just overall recovery for everything. It's also been shown to lengthen telomeres.

They did a study out of Israel. Oh yeah? Yeah, they gave people a protocol over 90 days. You do 60 sessions of 90 minutes over 90 days. And it's shown the length in telomeres and decrease your biological age. Okay. You just feel fucking great.

That makes sense to me. Yeah, you're flooding your body with oxygen. Most diseases, a lot of them, come from a lack of oxygen. Your body not having enough oxygen is very bad for you. Yeah. I used to have a qigong master. This is what kind of blows my mind about medicine and about ancient stuff. This guy is from Shanghai. He didn't speak much English, right?

A little bit. His wife would translate for him. And he'd come in and he could like point at you right from this far away and you'd feel it feel it like to the as palpable as someone pushing you around it's like really? yeah yeah yeah i'm not kidding

what year was this when this was happening? oh shit i met him when i was like forty he only just passed away damn too bad i'd like to meet that guy oh no there's people like him people like him. There are others like him. Oh, yeah, he's not the only one. He learned it from somebody and I think he imparted some knowledge. But, you know, he would get you and he could like point at you and stuff like that. And it makes you wonder, like, how did they build the pyramids? You know, I mean, if he can use his mind and

kind of get into quantum physics and move shit around with thought and with energy, there's actual energy coming out of his fingers. They could have built the pyramids like that. I don't know. Maybe somebody had that down somewhere. But well, I'd like to hear a better explanation. Me too. Well, it was really weird.

One time he was working on me and he was working on my liver. He said, your liver's blocked, because he looks at you. And if you look at him, he looks away. And his wife engages you while he checks you out. And then he gives you a little body map, and he puts X's all over it. And you go, yeah, that's right. I got a pain here and a thing there.

He knows where everything is. He knows exactly what's going on. Did you ask him what he's seeing your aura? Like what is he seeing? Everything. He sees everything. He was an allopathic doctor first. He went to medical school. He could write your prescription. He could do all that stuff. He was a doctor and then he saw a Chigung master, this old guy and people were lining up getting cured and he thought that's really interesting and He learned that on top of being an allopathic doctor. So One day he's at me on my back and he's pushing and I can feel my back And I'm at the wall and there's a poster of a film on the wall

You know my office and I'm looking and I can see him in the background and he's like down like this like And I can see him in the background, and he's like down like this, like ahhhh, like kung fu pointing rays of energy at me. And he hit me, he started yelling at my organ, at my liver, like, gah, gah, no, you know, whatever. And I went up the wall, and there was like eight inches of air under my heels. And I was up the wall. And I was like, whoa, and I came back down, and it freaked me out. And I looked at him, and he just went, whoa, and I came back down and freaked me out. And I looked at him and he just went, ah, he said, don't die, it's just science, like

that. Just science, okay? Just science? Yeah, just science. And I was so freaked out, I went to a priest, I said, is this guy demonic or something? Because he's lifting me off the wall. And the priest was like, he was an old Jesuit, right? A traditional old guy.

And he was a cross between Jimmy Stewart and Homer Fudd. That's the way he sounded. And I said, is this anything demonic about this guy? He says, whoa, whoa, whoa, did he heal you? Like that. And I said, why, yes, he did. And he said, that's all right then. And he says, I have no trouble with something like that and I said, why yes he did and he said that's all right then. And he says, I have no trouble with something like that because it was,

it was within the realm of possibility that somebody had power like that. And then it's inexplicable, but that it works. And it did work. Yeah. He just passed away. He was pretty old. There was a place that, you know, I bought a comedy club out here. And before the building that we bought was the Ritz Theater on 6th Street. But before that, I was under contract to another building. And this other building was owned by a cult.

And this is a crazy story. The cult was awful, horrible. There's a documentary on it. It's called Holy Hell. And this guy who was a gay porn star and a hypnotist. He was a yoga instructor. He got a bunch of people in West Hollywood and then eventually moved them all out here to Austin. But what this guy was doing, one of the things that he would do to his disciples is he would do a thing called the knowing. And they had to be chosen

for, they had to earn it. And when he would get them and bestow the knowing upon them, he would touch their head and they would have this incredible experience where they said they contacted God. Now all these people denounced him eventually, they left the cult, they all said he was a con man and this and that, but they all talked about that experience and they said it was the most profound experience of their life that they really do Feel like they came in contact with God and it's like what can a person if a person truly believes and This other person truly believes that they can do this to them and they have this moment and something does happen Like what is is that all inside of us? and something does happen. Like what is that? Is that all inside of us? Do people have ways of pulling that out of you that we've lost track of, that we don't

know? And even an evil person who's running a cult and manipulating people and exploiting people still has this thing that he was able to do to them that even after they've admitted that this guy exploited them, they say that was the most profound moment of their life. That's interesting isn't it? Yeah. Because I think yeah there are party tricks that you can get. Right but is that that party trick if it really is a pathway to connect you at least temporarily with God that there is a thing inside of us. Well that's why I went to the priest because I thought right because I'm off the floor

right so I thought I got to check this out because this is too weird and he said did he heal you and I said he did and he said that's alright then because the guy wasn't trying to get anything out of me right in fact he never charged me. The first time I went to see him, he charged me. And it was like, OK. And then he never charged me again. And he used to call me when I was sick. I wouldn't call him.

He knew when I was sick. He'd call me. He'd say, I need to come see you. I'm like, OK. So he had some sort of a direct line with your energy. Something. Pretty amazing. And he could like some sort of a direct line with your energy. Something. Pretty amazing. Yeah.

And he could, oh, this is the other thing. He could teach you martial arts, like quickly, without you having to know what to do. It was a weird thing. He did it firstly with my son, who he got him for a couple of weeks and like he said, I'm about to show you something. And I went out there and he blindfolded me. he had these two swords and he was doing all this you know this crazy stuff I'm like what I said how did he how did he learn that so fast he said it was in him and I'm like whoa and then he started to he started to do a thing when he taught me how

to harness this energy and to actually begin what seemed to be almost like involuntary movement and depending on the hand mode you took, it would create a style of kata or self-defense. I mean I used to do like some, I used to do a crude martial art, not crude, but like a hard martial art. What was it? Kyokushinkai. Okay, yeah. Way back. Kyokushinkarate. Yeah, yeah. What was it? Kyokushinkai. Okay. Yeah. Way back. Kyokushinkarate. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's Korean. It's Japanese. It is? Yeah. I can't

remember but it's like you know I didn't stick with it but it was but but he he he got this whole other approach of breathing and visualizations that would actually draw energy into your lower chakras and then you'd release the energy and it would create this kind of movement. And I showed it to a friend of mine who was a martial artist and I said, tell me about the footwork I'm doing here and what I'm doing. And he looked at me and he says, that looks really good to me. It was kind of like, what's that really soft kind of mark? Tai Chi.

It was like that. I was doing stuff like that. It was crazy. And it was really a great release, but it was about visualization and breath and the release of that energy that you pent up from all around that you visualized coming manifesting itself in you There's got to be something to all that stuff people have been practicing Tai Chi for a long time

Yeah, they wouldn't be practicing to save movements for all these years if it didn't do something. Yeah, pretty interesting Yeah, it keeps people young and healthy They do it in China. You see some people out in Asia sort of out there in groups doing all in unison it's like it's a good thing exercise yeah what do you do now for exercise oh gosh I'm terrible I've been I've come off I'm falling apart I got this I got dead dead guys parts in my shoulder I've got you know cadaver parts and this shoulder fell apart this this shoulder fell apart, a hip, a foot, it was terrible. I couldn't walk for about a year almost. Really?

And so, you know, you fall down. That's partially why I had to go and see Breck, to sort of get the couch potato stuff off. But you know, I lift weights and I do some, you know, walking and stuff like that, like really get your heart rate up and stuff like that. So, you know, I'm trying, hey, I'm 69 years old, so it's like, it's getting to be like seven decades or, you know. Yeah.

But I wanna stay fit if I can. And I bang myself up a little too much in my early life, so I'm paying for it now. And like in your 60s, man, you're not there yet but stuff starts like giving up on you. Yep. It's like… I feel it in my 50s.

Yeah. How old are you? 57. 58 is when it starts, man. Oh, Jesus. That's when I first noticed it. It was like, oh what's going on with this here, the shoulder. And I went down to Reardon of course, who shot it up with stem cells and it was good for like two years. You just got to keep going back.

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't go back often enough. That's the thing. I think it's just your body's just not going to heal the way it did when you were younger, unless you consistently get therapy for that. Yeah, yeah. You're in good shape though. Yeah.

I mean, yeah, so I was in reasonable shape at 58. And I think I'm in reasonable shape now. But I'm just, you know, it's just trying to push the old man off and use various methods to do it, you know. Yeah, that's what it is. Keep the body as young as you possibly can. Yeah. Yeah, and demand a lot from it.

That's what I do. Yeah. I just demand a lot and make sure I recover. I think a lot of it's about meditation too. You can actually get into a good head space that kind of cools you out and stops the stress, even no matter what's going on. I'm gonna have to do it tonight when I find out whether I still have a home or not.

Yeah. Well, if anything looks demonic, it's the fires in Los Angeles. I remember one time we were filming Fear Factor and we had to drive home. We had to cancel a shoot or end it early and drive home because the fires had hit. And this was like up, we were off the five and driving home for 50 minutes on the highway, the right side of the highway was in flames. Like Lord of the Rings, like Sauron is coming over the top, it looked fucking insane. It's biblical. It looks insane. And you've got to be careful too, because you could die. Oh, 100%.

If you can't breathe, I mean, come on. If you can't breathe, or if the cars in front of you catch fire and the wind blows this way and all the cars catch fire and you can't get off the road because to the right of you is on fire to the left you is on fire and the fire is coming up the highway. Oh yeah. Yeah people have died that way. And it can happen in an instant. Yep. I got hung once by mistake. And it was I was on a film set and I was I my neck in a noose, and I was directing the film. So I was, I'm on a ladder. And I'm like, so, I'll just be hanging here like this. And then the next thing I knew, I was waking up, I was on the floor, you know? And there were all these people standing over

looking at me, and I'm saying, what are you people doing? Get to work, you know? It was like, and they said, well, you hung yourself. I said, whoa, you're kidding me. It happens in an instant and you don't know it. It wasn't painful, nothing. I was just gone.

Well, you probably got choked out. Yeah, choked out by the noose. And then they grabbed me by the legs and got the rope off. Jesus. During Braveheart, it was like, oh, really? Oh, wow. It was funny. So I found out what it was like to sort of go into the next realm.

But of course, we did. I was fortunate enough to work with with Horian Gracie. 39 years ago. Yeah, you know, he'd just come from Brazil. Well, I remember when you were doing lethal weapon. It was the first time I'd ever seen jujitsu in a movie. A leg choke on Brazil. Well, I remember when you were doing Lethal Weapon. It was the first time I'd ever seen Jiu-Jitsu in a movie. A leg choke on film. Yeah. He taught, yeah, Horian taught me the leg choke. He said, now you grab your foot and you... Yeah.

Okay. And it was cool. But it was... Now my girlfriend does it. And she's like a purple belt, so I've learned... Really? Yeah, I've learned not to talk back. Oh, she's legit.

Yeah, she's legit. Purple belt is basically a black belt. You just need a little bit more time. Yep. I always tell all Jiu-Jitsu students, if you can get to purple belt, you are a black belt. You're going to be a black belt. Oh, she will be. You just got to stay on that path.

No, she is. She's obsessed with it. Yeah. And she's, you know, as I say, I don't talk back to her. I think the purple belt is the hardest belt to get to. It is. Because it's just like, in the beginning, you're just getting crushed. That's jujitsu especially for women. It's so difficult for women because they don't have the physical strength that the men have.

Yeah. Because you can kind of get away with a lot if you're a big strong guy you can get away with a lot of shit but then by the time you get to purple belt like man you have to have real technique and you have to have a real understanding of what's going on. She's got a good mind. And I think she's like a chess player. Mm, it is like that. Because I know from fighting with her. She wins arguments when she's wrong. Sometimes you let them win though, right?

You have to. You just like, you gotta walk away. Oh yeah, sometimes it's like, oh. You gotta go, okay. It's my second thought in my first action. Yes yes yes yes yeah but she got the purple belt. That's amazing yeah good for her. Yeah yeah a woman black belt that's an unbelievably exceptional woman taking it to that because they have to roll with men and it's just a significant disadvantage. Big dudes and stuff. And she's like, you know,

she's done some exceptional things I've heard. So it's like, yeah, it's pretty good. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't follow it up. You can still do it. No, I'm a more baseball bat gun kind of guy. I'm in trouble. I just like, you know, that kind of stuff. Well, be careful with that in California. You could wind up being in jail. Yeah, that's true. You wind up using it to protect yourself and to lock you up. Yes, it's...

Which is also evil. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that happens a bit. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Oh, well. Yeah, there's a perverse nature in our society right now with the law. When you look at your life now and you're on your third act as you're saying,

like what do you look forward to these days? Is it creating things? It's creation. Yeah, I think it is. It's about creation. And I figure, I'm pretty average at most things, but I'm good at a couple of things. I know how to tell a story on film. I know how to do that. I don't know, that's a weird place to be, but I think a lot can be achieved by art and image, and you can convey a lot without actually having to say it.

You can do things to affect people emotionally or spiritually even without being overt. I always like to reference just a shot that, and it's in a Ridley Scott movie, right? And you don't know why it works, but or why it's effective on some level, but it's kind of a profound, effective shot. And it's that first shot in the Gladiator movie where he's running his hand over the wheat, right? With that music and stuff. Why does that work? I don't know. You can't explain it, but it works. Well, Ridley Scott is a master. That's a visionary human being. He sees things. He knows how to shoot. And that's really good. It's a valid pursuit, I think, in storytelling, if you can do that. Every time he goes out there, it's eye candy.

It's a feast for the eyes. Do you have different goals with different projects? Obviously, flight risk is entertainment. It's fun. It's entertaining. Sure, entertainment. Yeah. Yes, different goals.

The other thing, too, is we're living in a different time now in the film world. I mean, everything's upside down and you have to compete in a medium where you have less time, less money. Do it fast, do it now. And it's like, wow, can I do that? I always had the luxury of like, you know, big budget and 3000 people on horses and all this kind of stuff, and was able to take my time with stuff. But I had 22 days. And here you got to tell this story in 22 days. So I felt the challenge of being able to do that and being able to make something that really got people like they could watch it and enjoy it. And I'm glad you saw it.

I'm glad you liked it.'m glad you liked it and that's all I want I just want people to have a nice little ride a fun ride entertainment but yes you have different goals with things I mean the next thing I'm going to tackle is more profound for me it's gonna take more out of me this is the resurrection story yeah Yeah. And I even have to change my entire life to do it. How so? You can't go into a project as profound in nature as that without somehow preparing yourself for it. It's like preparing for a fight. It's like you have to be fit for the fight. And yes, so you have to spiritually prepare yourself for that.

And that's going to take some sacrifice. And because, you know, I professed this and I professed that, I'm not a great example of Christianity. You know, I'm just, you know, I'm flawed and I make a lot of mistakes but I have to try and be better somehow in order to go in and make that film. So what does that mean? I think I know what it means, you know. Well one of the things that I thought was fascinating was reading and listening to Jim Caviezel talk about his experience playing Christ in your film. Yeah. It just truly changed that guy's the course of his whole life.

Well, it was fascinating to watch him work actually. And most of the time I just like backed away because he was doing something that, and I've seen a lot of people portray Jesus in films, right? And I never buy it. You can't quite buy it. Something creeps in, the color, that's not, something's not right or discordant. And some of them are pretty good but you never quite believe it all the way. What was the Willem Dafoe movie? Oh, that was a Scorsese film.

Right. What was that called? The Last Temptation. That's right. That's right. Which, interestingly enough, I was in a hotel in the Savoy and I had food poisoning. I was near dead from, I ate a bad oyster in London. And I was dying in a hotel room. And I couldn't even leave. It was the worst. I think it was like salmonella or something. And I saw this cord on the side was the worst. I think it was like salmonella or something.

And I saw this cord on the side of the bed and I pulled it. And all of a sudden a door opened up and a butler like Jeeves came in. He says, yes, sir. And I'm like, whoa. And I said, I'm really sick. I said, what do you think I should eat? Might I suggest some warm consomme and a cup of tea? I said, okay. So this butler took care of me in this hotel. But while I was there, of course, as he calls the room, and she says, come here, I want to talk to you. So I go in and talk to Martin, and he's in his room, and all the windows, the screens are drawn. He's got 18 different TVs going on at the same time in this dark room, and he's talking to me about the last temptation

of Christ, and he wants me to play Jesus Jesus and I said, I'm not doing it. And I sort of got out of there and then I went back to my room and they changed my room. This is really weird. They had changed my room and moved my stuff and they told me they were going to do it but I forgot. So I'm using a key to get into my room and it my stuff. And they told me they were going to do it, but I forgot. So I'm using a key to get into my room and it won't work. And the door opens up all of a sudden and it's Keith Richards in his underpants standing there staring through me like, like any, and there's a girl in a mink coat walking around it, mink coat and nothing else walking in the background. And Keith Richards standing there in his underpants with a spliff. And

I'm like, I tried to explain that I thought it was my room, but it wasn't. And you know, it was ridiculous. I'm 26 years old. And he just looks at me like, shuts the door in my face. I thought, well, that was my meeting with Keith Richards. He slammed the door in my face. It was fantastic. Anyway, but what were you talking about?

Kavizel, plain Christ. my face. It's fantastic. Anyway, but what were you talking about? Kavizel. He did something I think that nobody else did and I think he pulled it off because I totally believed it. I believed it too. And it was like, what did he do? He emptied himself out and he invited something else in and he left it, he just, he didn't try anything. He just, he emptied himself out and he meditated. And he let Christ in. And that role seemed to have had a profound effect on him. It did. As a human being. Oh, absolutely. And kind of fucked him up in his career.

A little bit. Because Associated him entirely with that film and then they associated him with Christianity And then they associated him with right-wing politics and yeah, yeah, and then you know he got Side-tracked by a few guys. I mean there's some people out there They get in your ear. Mmm. It's like Cassius You know talking right and they get you know to make a speech somewhere and next thing you know it's like people throwing eggs at you. And you wonder, should I even be saying this? And so he stepped on a bunch of land mines.

It did have a profound effect on him. But I think he was already mostly there anyway. And I noticed that because when I was trying to cast it, I thought, who could play this? And I saw the opening shot from Terry Malick's film, which was The Thin Red Line. And it was just a big close-up of Gavisel. And there was something otherworldly and childlike going on there in the close-up. And I thought, who's that guy? He's amazing.

Of course, you couldn't keep the blue eyes. You had to trade them out. So I changed the color of his eyes to brown and all that stuff. So it looked like he came from the region. But amazing. What he already had a quality, an ethereal kind of otherworldliness, space cadet quality. Yeah.

And he's still kind of like that. He's still like, wow. Yeah. I wish I'd met him or I haven't met him still, but I wish I'd seen him before and then after. Yeah. To see like what did that role change him? Because it seemed to have strengthened his faith. Sure, it did.

Yeah, yeah. He got in real tight with it. And I think he had some experiences while he was doing it. He suffered a little, you know. And uh. Didn't he get struck by lightning? Well, there's two times there was these lightning strikes

happening on the set, you know? And there was this guy with him. He was a young fella, one of the assistants on the film. His name was Jan. And old Jan was like, he's like a 6'2 Italian, northern Italian guy, you know. If he tripped in the street, women would slide under him, you know. It was that kind of stuff. The guy was like a babe magnet, right? And I think he was taking full advantage of the gifts he had. But he

got hit by lightning the first time getting people. We were out on the hill and there was a lightning storm, like with the crosses and stuff. Oh, Jesus. And this guy called Chiepo, he was a grip, and he never spoke a word to me the whole time. He was just a quiet kind of guy. And I figured, oh, he doesn't know English. But he came up to me, and in perfect English he said, you know, I think you should get all the people off the hill.

We could be struck by lightning. And I thought, oh, that's a good idea. Let's get off the hill. So we're moving off the hill. Everybody's getting off. And this kid gets hit through the umbrella, this yawn guy. He gets zapped by lightning, right? But he's 22, and he goes to the disco all night and dances. You know, he's doing the whole, you know, 22

experience and he comes back the next day and he's like, yeah, it was great. And then he was with Jim the second time it happened. But this time, I found him in a Fiat Bambino with his knees up around his ears, like waiting for the third strike. He was like, this just doesn't happen twice in the third strike. And he says, I have to change my life. So it was pretty funny. Filming that movie must have had a profound effect on a lot of people. It did pretty funny. Filming that movie must have had a profound effect on a lot of people. It did, yeah. Because you were doing something that wasn't just a film.

It was... Yeah, verite kind of. Yeah. It was strengthening people's faith. That film was a profound success, and a lot of people dismissed the idea of it even, especially in Hollywood. You had to self-fund all that, right? Yes, it was self-funded and it was a very strange experience, that one, because I put

the money in and I thought, well, maybe I'll break even. And it was, then I got these messages back, all the majors wouldn't distribute it. So I was like, nobody will distribute it. Okay, I guess I've lost, you know, the money, but it was worth the experience. And so one guy was left in the room at the end when the dust settled. There was some guy, he said, I'll distribute. And he had a little company called New Market and they distributed like one or two films before. And I think it was a Charlize Theron movie called A Monster about that horrible

serial killer. Oh, yeah, yeah. And he said, I'll do it. And, you know, it was just really basics. I went and I met the exhibitors. And, you know, and this guy was like the distributor, this little company, it was just him and a toothless dog and a fax and an assistant and it was like, okay, what's all the smoke and mirrors about this between the distribution and exhibition? I made handshake deals with all the exhibitors. Yeah, we'll show this. I said, okay. And then we put it out there. And it went out. Nobody expected it to do much, but it did phenomenally well. And there was this kind of thing in town, in the town, they said, did anyone just see

that? Did anyone just see what that guy did? Can't let that guy do that again. And we don't want anyone doing that, you know, because it sort of walked around the entire system and scored Right. So there was two things there was resistance to the Christianity aspect of it and promotion of Christianity And then there was resistance to the fact that you went outside the system was outside Well, I had no alternative right because no major would back it because of the Christianity aspect of it. I guess yeah

Yeah, Robert Murdoch said, you know, he wanted to and then he said, and then somebody advised him and said he'd be out of business in five years. Rupert Murdoch. Wow. In five years if he distributed that. And I was like, wow, if he's scared, I'm like, I'm going to crash and burn here. But it actually did all right. It did phenomenal.

Yeah. And then again, I tried to. I went with the studio on Apocalypto, but that didn't work out so well. It didn't? In what way? Well, it was interesting. The film was a film with no stars.

It was in another language. And it came out on a weekend with another film that had Leo in it and another film that had Cameron Diaz in it. And so those three films came out on the same weekend and the one with no stars and without the language won the weekend monetarily. It won the box office by a narrow margin on the other two. And the second week out, Disney pulled the screens. Really? Yeah.

So I thought, oh, that's funny. Well, screens are gone. I guess there's another agenda because that was another self-funded one. Did they pull the screens because they had movies that they already made deals with? I think so but you know it's just it's just politics and you know and I think perhaps the distribution deal on that wasn't as good as right something else or you know so it's you know it's all business. It's a phenomenal movie though. It's a great film yeah and it did better afterwards.

In DVD and streaming and all that? Yeah. Yeah, it did well. Yeah. I watched it again like two years ago. I hadn't seen it in a while and I watched it again and I had forgot a bunch of aspects of it. I was like, God damn, it's a good movie.

It's just primal. Yes. And I think I love primitive stuff, you know, and primal emotions. I mean, basically, it's a guy just trying to get back home to save his wife and kid. And he's got a lot of obstacles in the way, like jaguars and bad guys chasing him and trying to skin him and trying to rip his heart out.

Yeah. It's pretty cool. Yeah, it's pretty cool. And I sat in a room with my assistant. He said, what do you want to do next, a chase movie? He said, well, so we found out where the Mayan canoes and Columbus and all that. And then we just started making the story up in the room.

And we wrote it. Wow. Some assistant, man, he actually wrote. He actually tapped it out. Crazy. So when you're making this resurrection movie now, you also have this obligation, you're doing a very similar thing that you were doing with the Passion of the Christ, where this is a profound story. Yes.

When you put something like that together, how do you choose who's going to be the next Jesus? You use him again. Cavizel. Yeah, I know, it's 20 years later. It's 20 years later, but it's... Yeah, but it's the right guy. Yeah, but it's supposed to be three days later, but he got 20 years older. And I think I have to use a few techniques that they've started to get really good with

the... The CGI and yeah, oh, they can do amazing things now you can actually yeah get some of the same people by the time you film it'll be even better yeah when are you gonna start filming I'm hoping next year sometime it there's a lot required because it is I'll just tell you this it's an acid trip when we wrote it. It is like I've never read anything like it. And my brother and I and Randall all sort of congregated on this, so there's some good heads put together, but there's some crazy stuff. And I think in order to really tell the story properly you have to start with

The fall of the angels, right? Yeah, which is you're in another place. You're in another realm You know, you need to go to hell. You need to go to shill So you're gonna have hell you're gonna have Satan all that. Yeah. Whoa. Are you gonna? Yeah, right? You gotta have his origin. How do you're gonna have Satan, all that? Yeah. Whoa. Sure, you gotta have, yeah. Right. You gotta have his origin. How do you repre, how do you depict that? This is a good question.

And I think, um, I have ideas about how to do that. And ideas about how to evoke things and emotions in people from the way you depict it and the way you shoot it. So I've been thinking about it for a long time so it's it's it's not going to be easy and it's going to require a lot of planning and and I'm not wholly sure I can pull it off to tell you the truth it's really super ambitious But I'll take a crack at it because that's what you got to do right walk on to the plate, right? So I I think I can get it

But it's not about me, you know, right about something else Well, if anybody can do it you can do it. Well, I hope so. Yeah. It's trying to find the way in that's not cheesy or obvious, but that actually, it's almost like a magic trick in a sense. It's diversion. It's obfuscate this, show that, look over here. Do you have a title? Yeah, it's just like the resurrection of the Christ.

So that's a title. It's very ambitious, that's all I'll say. It took a long time to write, it's very ambitious, that's all I'll say. It just took a long time to write. It's really ambitious and it goes from like the fall of the angels to the death of the last apostle. Do you have a start date? I don't have a start date. I just have to begin pre-production and see what happens.

And it's just going to roll in its own time. It's taking its own time. I thought it was late. I thought, oh, it's taking too long. It's taking its own time. I thought it was late. I thought, oh, it's taking too long. It's taking too long, but it's probably just right. Yeah. It's when it's supposed to be. Yeah. Well, if you believe that, that's true. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know. I hope you're right. I think I'm right. My instincts are that I'm right. Yeah, yeah. And if I was going to trust anybody with that story, it would be you. Yeah, I don't know. It's a massive thing. And theologically, it's something that you have to really look at and make correlations that ring true hmm because it's not all written. Do you

consult with someone like a biblical scholar? Oh yeah Oh my goodness yeah yeah yeah and of course you know there's your own a thing that comes into it from having read the book a few times. You read the book a few times and it's amazing how your memory, how there's these recessive files somewhere in the background, how you can correlate this piece to that piece over there. And that's important because juxtaposition is everything with this story and what it means in a bigger picture. Yeah.

So it's hard to explain, but it's quite involved. Yeah, I can only imagine. And I don't know that you can do it in a foreign language because the concepts are too difficult now. So you may have to resort to the vernacular so that that at least is clear. Is that up for debate right now with you? Yeah, it is. I'm thinking like, eh. But look, have you seen these apps now where they have this AI stuff where the guy's talking German and then he switches to French and then he's Spanish and then Chinese? Have you seen that? And his mouth moves and it's the same voice. I mean, it's crazy what they do. So, you're going to use that kind of a tool,

you think? You could. Will you begin it in Aramaic or in Hebrew? Maybe. Yeah, Aramaic is really the kick, isn't it? But, you know, I write I've written it in English, but I wrote the last one in English too and translated it But and then the people had to learn to speak it because there was I think there's only about 400 people that actually speak Aramaic still Wow and apparently they understood it so I was happy about that Wow, so that was good Yeah, 400,000 people. Sorry. Oh in the world that makes more sense. Yeah I've like preserved those 400 people. Yeah, not many people speak in Latin still but But that's quite well known. Well, I can't wait to see it man And I just want to say I appreciate you very much all the stuff that you've done

You've made some really awesome pieces in your life You really have thank you. Yeah, thanks a lot great stuff. Yeah I'm blown away by Where you got to with this? Which is like didn't you start off just smoking a spliff on a couch with a guy? Yeah, okay. Yeah, it's amazing. Yeah, it's pretty bizarre. Yeah. I'm not exactly sure how it happened. No, it's good. I just kind of kept doing it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I'm a fan. Thank you. I watch it all the time. Thank you. If there

was no plan, do it. I'll tell you that. No. There still kind of isn't. I still kind of do it the same way. Okay every day you wake up Yeah, I just look at my phone. I'll go online. I say who do I want to talk to? Yeah, this guy might be interesting Yeah, yeah, okay That's really it who's next you get some pretty interesting. Yeah Yeah, I was amazed at that I Can't remember his name now, Terrence, what, he was all into.

Terrence Howard? Yeah. Yeah, the actor, yeah. Yeah. Brilliant guy. He had a bunch of stuff going on, I was like, whoa. Yeah, oh he's out there. Yeah.

Yeah, he's out there. But I mean, you have to be, to be one of those guys. You do. Well listen brother, thank you very much for everything. Thank you. Appreciate you coming in here. Yeah, thanks. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Your new movie's great and all your stuff's great. I'm a big fan. Yeah, tickets on sale today. Yeah. When does it come out? Oh god, on the... 25th? 24th?

25th? Yeah, 24th. Okay. So soon. Yeah. It's fun. It is fun. Yeah. I enjoyed it. Thank you very much. Bye everybody.