The Joe Rogan Experience - #2264 - Lenval Logan & Jason Sands

Episode Date: January 29, 2025

Lenval Logan is a retired U.S. Air Force intelligence analyst and former UAP Task Force member. He is the CEO of Phenom LLC, which develops the Phenom app for reporting UAP and paranormal sightings. Logan appears in James Fox's documentary, "The Program," Dan Farah and Lue Elizondo's "The Age of Disclosure," and season five of The History Channel's "The Proof Is Out There."  https://phenom.earth/contact/ Jason Sands is a retired U.S. Air Force veteran and former legacy UAP program member. His latest initiative, the Firsthand Fund, helps UAP share their experiences. Jason was featured in James Fox's documentary, "The Program."  https://x.com/JasonTSands This Valentine’s Day good things come in big packages at MeUndies. Score huge sitewide savings at MeUndies.com/ROGAN Don’t miss out on all the action this week at DraftKings! Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up using dkng.co/rogan or through my promo code ROGAN. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, [phone] or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT) or visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD).21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). 1 per new customer. Min. $5 deposit. Min. $5 bet. Max. $200 issued as non-withdrawable Bonus Bets that expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: dkng.co/dk-offer-terms. Ends 2/9/25 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Joe Rogan Experience. Trained by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Okay, Joe, what's happening? Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, too. Both you guys were in the program, which is a UFO, that's why I wore my Roswell shirt, UFO disclosure documentary, all about what's going on behind the scenes. Why don't you tell everybody before we get started, Jay, tell them what your background is, what you do.

I'm a retired Master Sergeant from the Air Force, worked 22 years, retired 2007. Started off as an airframe guy, ended up in Intel, and that's when things got strange. Had my second duty assignment as an Intel guy and got introduced to the program and that's how I ended up in the movie is I had some strange experiences that I could talk about that were unclassified so I came forward and that's where James founded me. And we got it all along pretty good. Everything's a history from there.

And Logan, you were in the documentary as well, so tell everybody what you do. So I am a... Pull this up to your face. I'm sorry. It's okay. So I'm also a retired Master Sergeant from the Air Force. Started off as a B-52 crew chief, cross-trained into Intel, retired after 21 and a half, and I ended up being part of the UAP task force, and I was one of the first people to come across Jay here and some other people. And from that, James found out about me and said, okay, we need to talk.

So him and Leslie Keene approached me and I was like, yeah. But I kind of got outed by Jay Stratton. Everybody was ganging up around me and around him and he was like, why are you asking me? Logan, work for me. And everybody went, okay, I guess I'm out. Oh boy. Um, what so what? Let's start with you, Jay. What was your first introduction to this whole concept that we are in possession of alien crafts or that we have communicated or there's been some contact like what was your thoughts about it before you had these experiences?

I had had a childhood experience with a UFO previous to that when I was 10 years old. So I didn't really get an interest in UFOs at all. I just thought it was strange. It was also a shared experience with my mother. What was the experience? Well, it was just a red orb that came down and looked like it came in from the atmosphere you know distance and then kept approaching my bedroom window and ended up kind of hovering near the bottom of my street and I was screaming to my parents you know there's a strange light outside and

nobody responded so I ran out to get my binoculars my dad's binoculars and ran out to the front lawn and finally my mom was the only one that responded and we both got to see it taken off as it came across the rooftop of my friend Eddie's house at the bottom of the street and that's what she's got to see my mother and I. Did it make any noise? Zero noise. No, it just looked like a total mirror, completely polished mirror kind of oblong kind of a ship or craft. How big was it? It was about 30 35 foot Really? Maybe even 40 foot. Yeah, it was about the half the size of my friend's rooftop If you were to measure it from front to back

So, you know, it's pretty big. It was enough for probably your eye to stand up in it and walk around a little bit and So it was pretty big. It was enough for probably your eye to stand up in it and walk around a little bit. And your mother has the exact same recollection of the experience? Yes. Actually, I've been asked to write a book, so I've got her writing her part of that. And I'll have the same thing. I've had another couple of experiences that my family members and other friends will probably write up soon.

And so this was all when you were young and so you had this memory in your head when you started working for the government but when were you introduced to the whole idea that this is a real thing? Well I know it's on mission because I just kind of followed a way that UFO experienced at 10 years old for many years and I just was kind of even skeptical sometimes about well maybe it was just something you know an aberration in my mind or eyes or something but anyway so I got really convinced that this was real when I was at Wright-Patt on a mission when I was in the program and we intercepted some

calls that literally were speaking about an NHI presence in the program and they were working in labs. So Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio and NHI non-human intelligence, right? That's correct. And so they were saying, what were they saying, how much can you say? Like is any of this top secret or is any of this? I can pretty much talk you about the culture and the presence of the NHI, but I can't talk about like weapons systems and the technology they're developing. That's all going to have to be national security stuff because we don't want our enemies to know what we got.

Of course. So what was this talk of NHI? What did it entail when you first heard it? Well it was between two people that were talking about the day's interview with this NHI that they had, they called it an even. An interview? Yeah, he had had an interview with them and he was relaying what was talked about in that interview to another individual, probably his boss or somebody that is gonna, you know, pass it on to the rest of the folks in the group or whatever. Did you see this written

down? I did not. I had it recorded just like you would with anything else that's, you know, it's recorded in such a way that it can stand legal forensic kind of analysis. That's the level of stuff that you have to do with an intel guy is you have to be really specific about what you're recording and make sure it's accurate. Even whether you believe it or not what's going on on you have to be able to transcribe that word for word the way it goes. So you heard the recording that's how you found out about this non-human intelligence thing? Well it was an active phone call that's

what I did on the red team that I was on for the program because I was monitoring for the Air Force and in this case I'm monitoring for the program. Can you say how the conversation went? Like, how did someone bring up non-human intelligence? Was there any discussion before this non-human intelligence of UFOs at all or aliens at all? Yeah, there was quite a few times. We had a scientist on the team.

There was an officer. He was a nuclear scientist. And he was able to give us some insights and stuff like that because we'd have some really strange things like things that were turning at 90 degrees and how do you not break that piece of machinery or are not kill the occupants and there we were hearing stuff like that and they had like very technical parameters that I can't just cannot discuss but they were talking about these and we get the scientists to come and talk to us and you say oh yeah that's this this and

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And so how does the conversation go where the non-human intelligence gets brought up? That was just like the two of them. When we, when I picked up the call and started the recording on it, uh, there was some guy that was there at right path and apparently he had been talking toEben. And he said, yeah, up to today's session, yeah, we got some more information you need to hear about. This is what is going to happen. You know, he says that there's going to be another meeting and that if we don't return the equipment and the prisoners, there's going to be some bad things happen. We are prisoners.

Yes. This is what they said on the phone call. And the other guy's like, well, hey, what if we can't get them, you know, to return all the equipment and the people? And the guy that had given the interview, he's like, you don't want to do that. And the guy's like, well, why? He said, if you don't, they're going to be put to death. And I was like, I literally stepped back for a minute and I was like, what's going on here? So I had to finish out the call.

They talked about sundry other things, just stupid stuff. Can you be a little bit more clear, like who's going to be put to death? The program folks that are responsible for keeping the tech that's not theirs and also doing things to these extraterrestrials, how did they Allegedly acquire this tech retrievals retrieval. Yeah when I was first introduced into the program One of the very first things they asked me was do you want to be part of the retrieval program? And I said well tell me about it and when they said the things they said I was like no number one It sounds gross number two

You probably can't give me enough PPE gear and hazmat gear to make me feel safe around these things and no I'm not interested in that. Thank you very much. So how do they describe it that freaked you out that much? They're talking about biological entities that are retrieved along with the crash. Yes. Why do they crash if they're so fucking smart? That's always the big question, right? Well, I think the new guy on the block Jake Barber, he's describing some of the ways that you can do this psionically. Against a psionic team, he's gonna start showing some of that to the world. That some of these crafters are manned and piloted by consciousness. And apparently they have a psionics team that can actually get in the headspace of these craft and cause them to land.

So it's not really a forced landing, it's just kind of a mutual thing. So wait a minute, the United States government has the ability to contact or interact with these craft and force them to land? Yes. And then there's other ones that are done kinetically, which is more of the scary side of it and the ugly side of the program is that what you've got here is it's not so much the military doing this, but the corporate people like Lockheed, you know, Northrup and all these other companies, they treat this stuff as very high-value target kind of stuff, and it's very valuable for them

to get the retrievals. So you've got really what amounts to a bunch of treasure hunters that are hired with mercenaries involved as well that go out for these retrievals. And that's where Jake Barber comes in is that he sees some of these people that are hired to come out and retrieve this stuff and he's done that. So the idea would be that the retrievals would be very valuable because you could back engineer the tech, figure out how it works, make weapon systems, make superior crafts. Exactly.

How long has this supposedly been going on for? Decades. It's been going on for a very long time. But okay, so if the tech that we have now that allows us to tell them to land didn't exist before, why did they crash before? What is Roswell? Well, Roswell, the most accurate account is the one where the microwave radar waveform upset the onboard avionics inside these craft that these NHI were flying on that day in Roswell.

But it's just, radar is just a detection signal, right? Right, but if you look at some of the stuff like Gary Nolan said about how, you know, even at the very molecular level, these things are organized very minutely. So you can imagine what even a flow of electricity, if it affects it wrong or is it the right wavelength, it does break down the electrical current and the electromagnetic or whatever drive that they might have. and that seems to be what happened It was well is that they actually? accidentally went in

And we're just sweeping like a radar and it caused this crafted crash. What a shit design You know I'm saying like imagine Imagine like if you bought a Tesla and the wheels fly off when it rains out Imagine like if you bought a Tesla and the wheels fly off when it rains out. You'd be like, what the fuck? You guys have this like super advanced vehicle that you can come here from another planet and radar makes you crash? That kind of stuff makes people incredulous, right? It does.

I'd like to add something here. Someone gave me an analogy to say, think of it as there's a type of metal that is totally non-magnetic, but as soon as you put a current through it, it becomes magnetic, all right? And he said, imagine this, you're in Roswell, you're cruising along, you're checking out, everybody doing their thing. And then, because remember that night there was a huge electrical storm. That's one of the big things they keep talking about. If one of those things gets hit and all of a sudden they slam together because now they're magnetic and then they bounce off and that's why you had one that landed in Roswell area and the one that landed somewhere else. So that was

what someone told me. Now I've never been able to figure out if that's the actual truth, but the two most likely possibilities is that one and what Jay just said. Yeah, there's actually another person that was approached by, you know, the same race of NHI, and this guy says that they actually recounted what happened, is that they thought they were attacked by a directed energy weapon, and then they quickly found out that no this was just accidental and that this was some sort of a radar system that just caused their their onboard computer to go haywire for just that second enough to cause to crash. It almost doesn't make sense to me

because like like if you're gonna go visit an uncontacted tribe in the Amazon you would assume that they have weapons you'd assume they have bows and arrows and if you got hit with an arrow You'd be like this is crazy You know, I can't believe I got shot by an arrow, but you wouldn't be surprised that they have arrows Like you would probably read. Hey, man, we should be real careful that they might have arrows. They might shoot us so if you're visiting the human race and you're so advanced that in 1947 you can come here from wherever, another planet, another dimension, whatever you're

doing. Wouldn't you know about radar? And wouldn't you have like a system to prepare yourself for storms? Yes, and that's something that might have taken them by surprise because you're talking about 1950s, radars were not all that new, but they weren't all that old either. When was radar invented? It was World War II if I remember correctly. Yeah, it was World War II. So it was right around the 1950s, right? Right around the same time. Right. So it may have been unexpected technology for them, and maybe they

just didn't have their countermeasures up or something. There could have been some type of arrogance there, because think about it, if we, based on our understanding, we believe that they've been coming here for thousands of years, nothing's ever happened, and then all of a sudden... All of a sudden, this new technology technology and it causes their ship to crash. So you have to think about the time frame of when this radar stuff was actually being... And besides that, they do not always... I intercepted a different call that states that they do have a periodicity between when they come and go. They're not always here or they're out doing other things, I guess. I treat this like a segment on the Arsenio Hall show.

Things that make you go, hmm, I'm not sure. It just seems dumb. It just seems dumb that radar could take them out. But one of the things about the Virginia crash, which is another James Fox documentary, which is excellent, which is all about the crash in Brazil, which is like heavily documented, including the guy who handled the body wind up dying of some unknown bacterial illness that they have no idea what it was and he was a young healthy guy he carried this supposedly carried this being put it in his patrol car took it to a hospital they wouldn't accept it had to take it to

another hospital and then two weeks later this guy's dead and he just he got unbelievably sick. There's nothing they could do to help him They flooded him with antibiotics all kinds of different things. There's nothing worked. He died very quickly when you You hear about that story. The big thing was that there was some sort of like crazy electrical storms that night Yeah, but again, you're gonna have a Tesla, you would assume the wheels won't fly off when it rains. You're gonna come here for another planet like what's on that planet? Oh well they occasionally have lightning. Let's not fuck around if they have lightning. Let's not go into the

storm. If you're in a plane you can go above the storm. You know how like your pilot says we're gonna take this plane above 45,000 feet to you know to let you know and then you look down you can see lightning below you in the clouds It's kind of crazy. How come they can't do that You got me I was born in 63 this has happened happened earlier than I even got there I'm just trying to go off of what I heard on I understand I mean I'm just but I just I'm just you know playing devil's advocate or and I agree I kind of had the same thoughts but at the same time

You know, we've made similar stupid decisions when it comes to battles and I know but I would just assume they're way better than us Right. I would assume they like you were talking about arrogance. I would assume they don't have that anymore Well, I think that that's true to an extent but I think also they're very common they have things in common with us as well that they do have you know the same sorts of you know desires to want to live their life well and all these other things are part of it. So yeah. Well it seems like if you want to go and do something, anything, like you want to explore the universe, you want to accomplish things, you want to make technology, it almost seems like some kind of self acknowledgement or some kind of ego has to be present.

Yes. Like, otherwise there's no motivation to do anything. Like, this was the question about artificial intelligence. We were talking about this and I said, but if artificial intelligence doesn't have any human needs, it doesn't have the desire to spread its DNA, it doesn't have the desire to achieve status, why would it do anything? Why wouldn't it just sit there and just observe and just watch us be stupid? to spread its DNA, doesn't have the desire to achieve status. Why would it do anything? Why wouldn't it just sit there and just observe and just watch us be stupid?

And maybe it would say logically it would interfere if we were about to blow each other up or something crazy like that. But other than that, why would it do anything? Why would it have any desire to take over? Well, look at us. And this is where I think there's a commonality between us and the NHI We're intelligent intelligent people Go on tick-tock

I've seen that stupidity right? Oh, yeah Okay, take back what I said now, but uh actually though they obviously were intelligent I'm joking, but they probably have a desire for an entertainment which we do have a great you know we're very entertaining we love that yeah and they probably have a curiosity as well they have to right if they're exploring why else would they explore so it's whatever it is that made us us you know from ancient primates to what we are today a big part of that is all these needs and desires. And you've got to wonder, like, at some point in time, does that get engineered out of the biological system?

And if it does, that system seems like it wouldn't need to explore at all unless it's facilitating a process, unless there's a very delicate process where advanced life forms like ourselves are experiencing this new technology, and a lot of the people that are in possession of the technology aren't even the ones who created it. So they have all this insane responsibility, but they've done none of the work, and they have power over this technology, which is what we find ourselves today, which is real weird. Imagine that's a process that all intelligent life goes through as it's evolving all throughout

the universe. Maybe they know this. Maybe it's a precarious thing and maybe it has to be monitored because like, oh, you know, star 15, remember that third planet? You know, they fucking whack the whole planet. You got there too late. And then you realize, oh, that took like four billion years to make intelligent life that could figure out cell phones,

and these dipshits blew each other up. And now there's nothing but microbes, and it's gonna take billions of years, and it might not even work, because they might be too far from the sun by then. Now for another test case. So let's prevent these territorial primates from killing each other.

And just maybe that's a thing that they do throughout the universe like farmers. Like, you know, make sure the wolves don't eat the calves. You know, just like protect it until it gets to this next stage. You know, I have to say that on mission that I did get that feeling that no matter where the NHI were mentioned, it was not a copacetic free-for-all exchange of technologies at all. It was very controlled by the NHI. If there was a lab environment, the NHI demanded that no human be in the lab while they're there or watch what they're doing and record what they're doing. And then they would leave

and then the humans could come in. So it's a very precarious little game they're playing. So how long have they supposedly been having these interactions with NHIs? I'd say since... I don't like calling them NHIs. I like calling them aliens. For me, again, I wasn't... I like just calling them aliens or whatever, but yeah, I think it happened in the eyes nowadays, you know, that that's when it really started to come because that's when they were

saying that this UFO came to Holman and landed and actually talked to the president at the time and all that stuff. Imagine a UFO talking to Trump. Oh yeah. He'd probably try to tax him. So my biggest question, anytime someone brings up NHI aliens, my first thing is, which one? Which one? Because they talk about it as if it's one entity

Oh, they did that. Oh, they did this one But when you break it down we're hearing some like us and want us to evolve Some don't like us and want us to kind of pull back pull back and they want to control certain things So I'm like, well which one and then they they look at me with that deer in the headlight look like oh I don't know. Right. So there's the idea that our superiors, that the military, the top levels of government, even they are not given all the information. Correct.

Because probably we're like a bunch of children. We're like, you're too stupid to figure this out. I'm not going to tell you what a nuclear bomb is. Just duck and cover. However, we could be the greatest show in this part of the universe. I'm sure we're a great show. Yeah. I mean, imagine when we talk about, you know, the things with the nuclear bombs, where the missile silos, they, you know, started counting down or whatever. Maybe it's like, hey, let's see how far they'll go if we do this.

Right. And everybody gets all excited and then I was like, okay, we're just kidding. We'll turn it off and go from there. Well, perhaps. I mean, listen, we run experiments all the time on animals. All the time. And we have collars on bears. We set them loose. Like, let's follow the bear. Where's he going? We do that all the time. We do that with all kinds of species Yeah, we do It only makes sense that they would do with us Especially so since we're we literally have the ability to annihilate all life on earth and we're pointing at each other multiple times Yeah, yeah mad mad world. It's a mad mad world that I had that argument with Neil deGrasse Tyson

He's like, why would they be interested in us? Like what are you talking we go to the jungle to study a frog. You know, like, of course they would come here. We're so strange. And we protect the turtles in that one little area that EPA says, oh, no, you can't mess with those turtles. Yeah, imagine Elon gets to Mars, and we do find life there. And we'd be so interested to figure out how it works,

what makes it tick. You know, they believe they found actual water on Mars not frozen water now Yeah on the poles. Yeah heard about that. That's nuts Yeah, this is there's actual water in there and they can find something in that water that's alive Yeah, but if we don't if we're gonna expand out into the universe, which is what Elon Musk says The fact that we don't have to bring water with us, right? That's huge. Brian. Yeah Mars water I don't drink tap water water with us, right? That's huge. Brian, you're drinking Mars water. I don't drink tap water and I definitely drinking Mars water.

It could be better than Red Bull. Bro, imagine if it's like filled with crazy minerals and you drink a glass of Mars water and you just feel incredible. And then we have to ship Mars water from Mars back to L.A. That's a war right there. That's a war right there. People are going to be like, how come they have it? We don't. Right't right there be water wars

What if Mars water just makes you go back in time like you look 20 again? Yeah, you know who knows what the fuck's in that water I don't I don't know but those are the kind of things you write though that that's kind of how we are is that we're Very curious about what's on that planet you know we can utilize the resources that are there like the water and everything else and We're gonna learn some stuff and well I'm take a long time but I'm really curious about is what was Mars like before it lost its atmosphere meet and was there a time a few billion years ago where Mars was like Earth you know and

if to be what people are saying that's that's the craziest of all theories right and the most interesting but if if, you know, Earth still exists five billion years from now and now it's cold and dead and there's nothing, how much would be left? How much is left after a couple of billion years? You know, what is really left over? What does it look like? Does it look like Mars? Because Mars looks completely desolate, but we know that Mars had water and we know Mars had a warmer climate. So you kind of just assume there was something growing there.

What does it look like a couple of billion years later? Probably like Mars. Yeah. Which is great. If we do find out that Mars at one point in time housed biological life, or maybe there's microbial life or something like that, that still exists on Mars, just the climate is so harsh it can't advance past that stage. That alone would just change our whole view

of the universe itself, because then we would start to consider, okay, maybe this isn't just this one thing that happened. Maybe the Fermi paradox is just that we don't have the ability to detect all these things that are out there. Or maybe they really do pass by and keep their doors closed. And locks.

Right, we're fucking shooting fireworks on 4th of July. We're nuts. We're the craziest species on this planet by far. Everything else is normal. Everything else just kills what it wants to eat. Everything else does normal stuff. They fight over resources, but that kind of makes sense biologically. Honestly, after my experience in the program I found that

it seems the more I think about it the more that they are very much like us in a lot of ways but they have probably a world government that we do not have. In other words they can get along in their own society much better than we can in their former government is not all broken up. I think if you branch out into the solar system and then into the galaxy, like if as you start spreading out, if you do become some sort of an interstellar species, you kind of have to be united as a planet, right? You got to go, look, all this bullshit about this country and that country, let's let it go.

Let's let it go. I mean, I don't want one world government because I don't trust the government. But if I did trust the government, I'd government be like one world government is the way to go Everybody should have the same resources everybody should have the same access to healthy food and water and clean air Like it should be the same for everybody. It shouldn't be that you can make an iPhone in China because they can make it for 15 cents because the people are working like slaves exactly It shouldn't be like that. It should be like the whole world has the same rules But the problem is you can't trust the government. So what do do you do? Well if you get to a point where everybody's?

So advanced that we don't have all the same greed and lust and all the bullshit that ruins Human society if aliens get to that point then it only makes sense that they would operate as a planet But then they would have like their interest in ahead of these fuckers on that other planet So, you know those lines it's those things that you talked about Those are the things that inherently make us human little close. I'm sorry the hand moves You can if you want to sit back. Those are the things that inherently make us human. So the question would be that inherently make us humans. So the question would be, depending on which hand in child you're thinking about, what inherently makes them them and how compatible are we in what we're looking at? Because those could be some of the things that attract them to us or detract

them away from us. Well, what I'm interested in is, are there things just like us? Is this like if you you know, like there's similar plants that exist in similar ecosystems all over the world where ideally the seeds have never been able to get back and forth. But they're similar, and at least in some ways, it's just a matter of climate resources. These plants over millions and millions of years, the same kind of plants grow similar kind of animals there's rats all over the place there's a pattern to it yeah there's a pattern at atomic level there's a way that things occur naturally and they form

different things so a bird I agree I think when I talked about it the first time we spoke on the phone is that yeah there probably is a bird kind of looks like a bird on another part of the universe but maybe it has, you know, two sets of wings.

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There's so many different kinds of birds, too. But I wonder, is there, is this the only kind of way life evolves, or are there planets that are just radically different than our planet and life forms in a completely different way? Yeah, I would think that that's true also is that there's exceptions to the rule just like there are here on Earth that we've got some really strange creatures that roam around like people are starting to say octopus, octopi and stuff. They don't fit the normal way that things evolve around the Earth and stuff like that.

There's no bones there so, you know, you're not going to find any fossils anywhere. But if you think about some of the things that we're being told now, 99% of all life that lived before is all gone now. So if this is what's left, maybe some of those unique things that were out there, there's something similar. Because one of the things that I ponder is there's got to be some grand design because when we see these aliens, whether they talk about it's a gray, it's a Nordic, it's a draconian, or if it's a mantis, they're all standing upright. So is that a part of the grand design that is as intelligent as you get further up the

free chain? You start to stand on your two legs and whatever, and then I think about if it's a mantis, whatever, how did they build their ships if they don't really have opposable thumbs? And you know, those are the things that were always taught. These are the things that make us unique as humans, and we can build things, and that's why the other animals didn't you know the only other animal out there is what the chimpanzee or the gorilla or something primates but obviously nature finds a way and it's not human nature it's something other type of nature and they do something else. Well it could be genetic engineering too it could be that they reach some point where they say,

well, what's the best structure for a body? A mantis structure way better than a person structure. We break so easy. Mantis are insanely strong. You ever see a mantis catch a hummingbird at a feeder? Yes. It's nuts, man. Yeah, taking out tarantulas and scorpions.

They're so little. And they just snatch that fucker up and he can't move like if you looked at them like the the hunger is probably four times heavier at least probably more than that and just like It's like that design the exoskeleton design is superior in terms of like durability and also Lobsters and crabs and all these kind of insects like that do Dementis regrow limbs? Let's find that out. All I know is that like crabs do. Yeah, I know crabs can yeah lobsters and crabs All I think of them is just armored spiders. Yeah, you know bugs I mean and if you think about when they said that the oxygen level was at 30 35 percent and some other stuff

They're saying some of these spiders were the size of small dogs I'm like yeah that's not a place I'd like to live so they can said praying mantis undergo incomplete metamorphosis sometimes if their cage is too dry a mantis may have trouble shedding old skin will lose a limb in the process of molting if it happens it's possible for a mantis to regrow the lost limb but only when they molt again so they molt again then they regrow that limb but they do regrow their limbs. They regenerate limbs as long as there's at least a coxa remaining whatever that is. It won't regenerate right away and maybe a tiny nub and then it and then they molt I guess. Wow.

That makes sense because the harder shell would prevent that limb from continuing to grow. Right. But it just seems like that's a superior form of a structure So if you get to the point where technology is all done with the mind, right? We've developed artificial intelligence and quantum computing and the being has been generated over Genetic engineering to the point where it no longer has to have sex to read to recreate new versions of itself Yeah, and so instead though the way they procreate is they they do it longer has to have sex to recreate new versions of itself. And so instead, the way they procreate is they do it through design. And maybe they say, look, it doesn't matter what you look like anymore, no one's fucking.

Let's all become mantises. That's a good point. I need a reset now. This soft shit on the outside, we're like fucking water balloons. We're so vulnerable. Yeah. Wouldn't it be better if you're hard on the outside, we're like fucking water balloons. We're so vulnerable. Yeah. Wouldn't it be better if you're hard on the outside and we don't need to use your fingers and thumbs anymore.

We do everything on our mind. I mean, if it gets to the point, this was the thing that I've heard about people that have supposedly worked on crafts is that one of the most remarkable things is that there's no gears, there's no levers to turn, there's no buttons, there's no controls, that everything is done somehow or another where the being and the craft are one. Yes. Consciously, yeah. I've had discussions about that.

Have you talked to anybody that has said that any of the crafts have controls in them? No, all I've heard... Yes. Yeah basic controls. Well, I was talking to Jack Sir Foddy about it. There was a Craft that did have some place where the the hands were in there, but it was only to Sort of do some minor adjustments for the craft is what he Was describing and other people have described, you know What I was gonna say there's just all I've heard is that there's been Two places for you to put your hands and maybe for other parts of the crew, but that's about it There's no maybe that's so you don't use your phone

Distracted just use your hands put your hands down on the thing Yeah, maybe they have something similar it. Yeah, there's no fucking around. Yeah. Maybe they have something similar to like cell phone addiction. Yeah. So if they're putting their hands on the thing, wasn't that what Lazar said as well? Didn't he say there was something similar to that? Yes, he did. Yeah, so no controls, and somehow or another putting your hand on it syncs you up and then

they're just using their mind. Correct. Yeah. Did they try to explain how this was developed? There's a lot of people that are looking into it now. And they're starting to see that, yes, it's possible. And I think that's, again, some of the new whistleblowers can shed some more light on to how this happens. And I think we need to hear a little bit more

about these folks that came forward about the psionics team and what exactly is this meditation? What are they linking up with? Is it does it feel mechanical? Does it feel like an entity? You know, we hear Jake talk about his his experiences. He had a really spiritual experience with one of these things While he was carrying it to the next place. He was literally crying in the interview. This is that egg looking thing Yeah, he said that he felt well it was he called the eight gone I think craft that one is the one he had a spiritual eight gone eight gone like a hexagon but it has eight sides but our octagon I think would be the actual term but he said it had like a eight sided

kind of a disc. So this is not the thing we're talking about. This is a different one. A different one. Yeah, so he encountered a different one. Yeah, okay. I didn't see that interview. Yeah. Well, the detailed one I think you can pull that one out of there, but he mentioned that that one he had like a real no-kidding. It was beautiful and he cried about it because it was so beautiful of an experience. Wow. And I have a question about all those things because if they can get into our minds, my thing is that how do you know that

that's not what they're putting into your head? Because like what they experienced at a skinwalker ranch when they saw the creature on the top floor, they said as they approached it, they started feeling fear. And as they approached it further, the fear just kept intensifying to the point where it was like a physical change in the temperature. So if someone can put fear into you, why can't they put love into you and all these different things? And I'm not saying that it's not genuine, but part of being on the task force, you have

to question everything. You know? Well, we can do have to question everything. You know, you're… Well, we can do that to each other. Yeah. Yes. You know, we can do that to each other through threats. We can put fear into people. We can do that.

You know, there's a crazy documentary called Holy Hell, and it's about this guy who is a cult leader, and one of the things that he would do to these people – he was a hypnotist too – but one of the things he would do to these people, he called it the knowing. And he would put his hands on them and they would say that they would experience God. They had to be prepared for it. It was a thing that was very difficult to get. He had to prove you for it and all these people wanted it and they never got it. It was like a thing he held over your head. And then when he actually did it, even though this guy turned out to be a complete fraud and the cult disbanded, all those people talk about that moment when they had that experience with that guy

and they say it really happened. Because the human mind is weird, right? And if a person can do that to you by touching you, it just makes sense that some like super advanced being would say like, what is the best feeling that I could give to this primitive entity that's studying me to let me know, don't blow me up, don't fuck with me. Limila.

And this is the best expression that you can have in life. What is the best expression you have in life? Is love, pure love. Just pure, just untethered love. It would make sense, it would put that in you so that you would protect this thing. And that may be part of it and I think that's what their desire is. Because we would try to put our best foot forward if we knew that we were similarly being scrutinized. Sure.

You know, we'd want to do that. When we visit uncontacted tribes, we give them free food. We're here for you guys. But see, that's where my fear is. That's why I came forward is that I was hearing stuff that actually brought concern that, you know, in the way I kind of packaged that up is that the military happens to be unfortunately the face of humankind here in this situation when it comes to the program because it's definitely not the public we're just you know Errantly having people come forward with I got abducted or I saw this and I saw that but in the military that seems to be where

There is an interface going on right? I'm just wondering is that too heavy-handed because they're not seeing the full human Right, they're only seeing the military human, right? And that's why I'm kind of took the tact I did instead of going through all the other channels Is this I just was like, let me try something new Let me talk to the people I get to know the people what they feel about this and I'll just tell my story Whatever happens happens. Yeah, I took some spears But you know most for the most part people are ready for this People appeal definitely want it whether they're ready for We'll find out if it actually becomes bigger and

more profound than what we've currently experienced. Yeah, I got asked a question and they said, if you were going to go to Congress and say, here's what we need to know about the UAP experience, what would you tell everybody? That's a good question. And my answer was, we don't need you anymore. Because so many groups now have caught on that if they attune themselves to whatever it is, they can talk to these things directly themselves. Now, whether it's good or bad, but because of the badness that has transpired over the years, more and more people like you, you said you don't trust the government. There's people,

they don't trust the government at all in this other thing. So they're like, let's reach out by ourselves. You've got people doing, you know, RV and out of the body experience and all that other stuff. You've got people that are being contacted directly. So now they're trying to say say things. So and also to were evolving. So as we're evolving and other things start happening, you have to start questioning, why do we need the government in the middle

of this? Please don't take this the wrong way because people get angry. It's kind of like the Catholic Church. I was always told, if you want to talk to God, you talk to God. But then why do I need a priest? Right. You know, so the government's always been the middleman. So do we really still need him? So when you're saying that all these people have figured out these methods, how to communicate with the aliens, what you're talking about is like people sitting down, suppose this is something I'm hearing a lot lately sitting down and supposedly summoning them putting out like an intention and that they would they will come yes that happened with you you ever try it I haven't yet so why wouldn't you

try it if you I tell everybody I'm black and I'm afraid of the woo okay but at some point I know I'm gonna have to embrace it because it is part of the experience. So like, I'm good friends with Travis Taylor. And when we first started talking, he was like, okay, I'd like to talk to you about coming out to the ranch, you and some of your friends, your Intel guys. And we just, you know, we talked about it. And then I kind of put it up in the room and said, hey, guys, if we had a chance to go out to the ranch, who would go? And all the white people put their hands up right away. All the black people were like in the corner going, now let's think about this.

And I sat there and I go, why is it that we're so, you know, reserved about going. And I remember something that someone told me was, when the woo happens, you embrace it. But you don't run towards it because that whatever that experience is, it was probably meant for somebody else. And now you're interfering when you run towards it. Right. So if you summon the UFO, like if they come to visit you, that's meant to happen to you. What if you're summoning them? Yes. Yes. You may be causing a distraction.

Also, like what do you, I mean, people say that, yeah, if I could experience UFO contact, I would. Well, would you really? Because that might fuck up the whole rest of your life. Like what if it does happen and then it never happens again and then you have a wife and kids and a house and You just sit in your fucking living room trying to pay attention to this football game when you're thinking about I've seen a fucking alien I've seen UFOs. They've come down and communicate with me telepathically. I know they've real they're real

Yeah, well it would ruin your whole life Remember that remember that movie with Ben F, I think it was called like Chasing Amy? And chasing Amy, I remember the name. Yeah. I don't remember the movie though. Not that Amy. No, but there was something that was said in there that always made me think, after you have a first experience, and in this particular case, there was talking about your first orgasm,

you're always chasing after that first best feeling that you ever had. You never, you're never gonna get there, but you're chasing it. They talk about heroin too. Yes. They call it chasing the dragon. Yes. So if you're one of those people that had a really profound experience with a creature from another world, you can't really explain it to everybody else. So you're looking for something else to make it seem real

because you start questioning everything that you know. You know, and that's how I was. My first experience was when I was a kid in England and me and a friend were just throwing a ball back and forward. And you know, in the old days, people used to wrap the sneakers around the telephone lines. So I just happened to see that there was some sneakers up there. And then all of a sudden I look off in the old days, people used to wrap the sneakers around the telephone lines. So I just happened to see that there was some sneakers up there.

And then all of a sudden, I look off in the distance and there's this UAP UFO that looks like an iron that you would iron your clothes with. The whole bottom part was glowing. The top part was just dullish gray because, you know, England and gray skies. Was the shape the top like an iron as well? Yes. Yeah. So like a hump to it? It kind of had a hump to it.

So I'm sitting there going, well, what is that? And he goes, that's got to be a helicopter, because it's just standing there. And I was like, but I don't hear any noise. And then next thing you know, we saw, I believe it was two F-4 jets coming, because you could hear them. Those engines are loud.

And these two jets come out, and this thing just goes, and this is when I was living in Nottingham, England, because I'm British by birth. All right. So, you know, our parents are like, too much imagination, da da da da da da. And I just kind of kept it in the back of my head. And then I saw things later and I just kept questioning them. And finally it was like, I'm really going to have to look into this. So how old were you? I was about 10. 10, so you were, and you said you were like 10 as well? 10, yeah.

This is one of the things that I keep hearing about this idea that children and their innocence, they don't have this blockade in their head to keep them from, they don't think it's ridiculous to think about aliens. They're open to it more. We talked about this. We're programmed as we get mature. We don't want to be fools.

Right. So I believe, and this is just my belief, not anybody's, but I believe from the mid 1950s all the way up to the mid 1990s, I think there was a deliberate attempt by these entities to reach out to school children and go into the schools. Because remember the Rue and Bob ways, right? That was crazy. Right. That's crazy because all those years later they all have the same story. Yeah. They all drew the same thing independently.

They pulled them aside. All the way to adulthood, they remember it. Yeah. And then there's the stuff in Australia, there's the stuff in England, there's the stuff in France. It's constantly, I think... The Australian one's real similar too, right? Yeah, I think his name was Preston Dennett. He wrote a book. I hope your viewers read it or take a look at it. It's like the top 100 school sightings, and half of it is based on just the sighting. Another part of it is based on the actual thing landing and trying to communicate with the kids. And I sat there just thinking,

were they doing that to prepare us for now for when they do come back so we're not so afraid, the kids are more open-minded? I'm not sure, but you have to think about those things and go, you know aren't you're sitting a whole thing. Things that make you go hmm. So those were some of the things that we just started thinking about and going well what if and then I I hate to play what if games because my favorite what if is what if worms had machine guns birds

wouldn't mess with him but but but you have to play that game sometime and just kind of draw it out and then see if you have a hypothesis that can start repeating itself and then you go, hey there is something to this. Well the real question is how long have entities been visiting us and are the same entities visiting us over and over again or like the Zimbabwe incident, is that like the first time that species has ever been here? And did they just seek contact and didn't know that they're dealing with little children in a school? They just knew they were dealing with a group of intelligent beings that they could communicate with? They probably don't

even have the concept of a school, right? So if they're landing, I mean, they probably understand basic culture for human beings, but as they if they they're landing, I mean, they probably understand basic culture from for human beings But as they land and interact with people this might be the first time they've this species has interacted with anybody We don't know I mean we're dealing with yes hundreds of billions of stars just in this galaxy alone Yeah And personally from just my belief in it is that we have millennia of these sorts of encounters all through manuscripts in it is that we have millennia of these sorts of encounters all through manuscripts. Even George Washington's got his story. George Washington has a story?

Yeah, he met a green somebody before he actually went into a battle. Yo, pull that up, Jamie. George Washington had a UFO encounter? Well, an entity encounter. An entity. He just said that this was- George Washington also had lead poisoning. Shane Gillis has the best bit about George Washington.

I don't know if you've ever seen it. It's fucking hilarious about going to the George Washington Museum and seeing George Washington's teeth. And George Washington's teeth... They're all wooden. Well, no. They were slave teeth. First of all, they knocked some of the teeth out of slaves' mouths and the other ones were from horses. And it was set in, it was all in lead. So he had lead

in his mouth. So his joke is all about like George Washington being fucking mad with lead poison. Like fucking killing everybody. That's why he's at the front of the boat. He was out of his fucking mind. It's a great bit, but the point is like George Washington was being poisoned by, you know, medical science at the time. They didn't know that lead was bad for you. Yeah, it's crazy. He kept lead in his mouth. Yeah, but I remember. Well, they didn't know. I know, but like makes you wonder like what are we doing right now that the future people are gonna go these fucking idiots were doing that? Mm-hmm.

But George Washington, have you found his account Jamie so from ancient aliens about the founding fathers good enough solid reference it's legit yeah get Giorgio Tsoukalos to say it was yeah so all those all those things that happened to those kids We don't know if it was I mean we're hearing stories now that they can mess with your mind We don't know if they're pushing these kids forward mentally We don't know if they're you know Dumbing them down because they know that these kids are gonna be the ones that are gonna make a difference Because it all depends on what they're all adults now right. Are any of them like real exceptional or any of them like PhDs or something like that?

I have not gone to check any of that, but one of the things that coincides with that, that I kind of, I think there was exceptional people usually have to do some exceptional things to get noticed. And I think even if you're exceptional, you may not have fit the right block to get noticed. So that someone would sit there and go, hey, what's going on in your past? Whatever. And then there's a lot of these people they just don't want to talk about. Because of whatever the stigma. But now that the stigma is being lifted, you know, who knows?

Maybe a lot of muscle. The stigma is being lifted, but people still live with the haunting memory that the stigma is being lifted, who knows? Maybe Elon Musk will come up and say... Yeah, but the stigma is being lifted, but people still live with the haunting memory of the stigma being a part of their life. So I think people that have had an experience a long time ago, even though the stigma is lifted, they're still reluctant to talk about it. It's like there's still people that are in the closet. Like homosexuality is like way less taboo than it's ever been in in modern history, right? But yet there's still people that have been in the closet for 20 years and then trapped and they just like fuck

And they can't get themselves. They can't get out I think for a lot of people that have had these crazy experiences They probably had some moments where they told people friends and they got mocked and people called them liars They felt like an idiot. Like, I'm just not telling anybody this anymore. Which totally makes sense. Yep. It's the same thing that's happening on X

and other platforms as well, is just people coming forward, trying to speak their truth. And they get shut down by people that have never been there. They're just opinionating. Yeah, but that's just toxic internet. That's just the- 100%, I agree with you.

It's just human beings online, they're just not good at it. We're not good. It's too new. We suck at it. We're real shitty to each other. And too many people, it's like they're mentally ill. And what I mean by mentally ill is like if you're on Twitter 12 hours a day and you're constantly tweeting before you go to bed, you're mentally ill. You might not think you're mentally ill. Just like when you're an alcoholic, you're mentally ill. If you're a gambling addict, you're mentally ill. You're not well, right? You're fucking trying to bet your house on a football game. You're out of your fucking mind. You're addicted to this problem. Yeah, you're mentally ill. You're mentally ill if you're on Twitter all day just arguing with people. It's just the nature of the technology and the very crude way that people interact with each other,

which leads you to think that as technology evolves and it gets to the point where we're communicating through telepathy, telepathically, like supposedly they can, it sort of eliminates the need to even know our language. They can just come and give us thoughts and express things in a pure way without the need to decipher it through syntax. Darrell Bock But there's still the worry of misinterpretation because my family was pretty religious. And when I was growing up, they're like, God is omnipotent, God knows everything, God doesn't

make mistakes in everything. And then I was like, that's not exactly true. But if you think that God is omnipotent and He's communicating with everybody, how is it that all the leaders of a certain church have different views on how we're supposed to talk to God? If God is... Right. Why isn't He just saying...

It's a personal experience, really. Yeah. And it's the same thing with the NHI, is that, like you're saying, you'd like to put a pattern to it, but maybe there's not. There's some very random things that have happened in other encounters, but there's some of them that do seem to have a concerted effort, a prolonged effort, from maybe even millennia because we do see like old stone ancient monuments and monoliths that do have these depictions of what look exactly like Grays.

Yeah. The craziest one, is it in Australia? you know monuments and monoliths that do have these depictions of what look exactly like grays you know the craziest one is it in australia the one that's on the wall where there's all these dudes with the big eyes there's a couple of places where that is there's a couple of those cave paintings that are like that where are those from? I think there's some down in south america

i saved one i'll send it to you jim because you Jamie because it just Day online and it freaked me out so much. I saved it on my phone I was like, this is so crazy just to look at yeah And there was one on the side of a like a hillside or yeah cliff face. Yeah White white white freaked you out Well because I Just sent it to Jamie We take a look at it right here Jamie you could throw run that through a Google search You can find out where it is or I'll do that while you put it up on the screen

It freaks me out because these people were starving These people were like barely getting by right there They have stone tools and they took the time to draw these things with these like weird Helmets on and these big black eyes Which is very similar to so many different encounters that people have. They all describe a very similar thing, a big head with giant black eyes. So those are the typical grays, but I heard in South America there were people that they

showed that picture to and they called them the ant people because they said they came from underground Yo Well, that's that's the other question like we're just sort of assuming that these things are Definitely from another planet that they're not here and they haven't been here all along Yeah, this these are ab are Aboriginal drawings or Aboriginal paintings. Yes. Yes. So this is from Australia, which is just wild.

And you get them all over the world. All over the world. And real similar all over the world. You got them in Ireland, Europe, you got them in the United States, Central America, everywhere. And the vast majority of those children that saw UAP, that came down the other school, if there was an entity that was there, it was usually the typical gray-looking ones that were there. Well, the ones that they saw in Vargenha, Brazil are kind of similar, but they seemed

like a darker color. It was almost like a purple, right? Yeah, it was reddish-purple or something like that. But they did have the black eyes and the large heads. They had horns, though. They had horns. There was a very specific thing that they said. The pictures that we're seeing for Varahenia, this one had red eyes and the reason why I'm bringing that up is because a friend of mine contacted me, a mutual

friend that we talked about. Oh, okay. He was talking about something known as the Dover Demon and it's over by Dover Delaware and there was supposed to be an incident where a UAP came down and there was a creature and it looked a lot like the Varginia creature with the red eyes and whatever so he was asking... That's what the Varginia thing was? Oh that's the Dover Demon? Yeah that looks like a shoe bill bird, that crazy bird. Yeah but he said it had bright red eyes. Oh fun Imagine that I'm running into that thing in the night, right? So the question was never sleeping in yeah

Oh, I know is I like it. It does look a lot like the Virginia one though Yeah, that is go back to that last drawing you true Jamie You pull up pull that brother now if you can will you pull up the image of the Virginia drawing? Because they had an artist who talked to the little girls that saw that and those women and you know They're really, look at it. Come on, man. That looks exactly the same. Yeah, and there's those bumps on the head though. Yeah, you can see that. That's exactly the same fucking thing man. Right. Like literally exactly. Yep. So I told Travis if you

ever see if you ever get me to go to come to skinwalker ranch I said no that I've got a plan and he was like what are you talking about I said I will not be the slowest runner however I will not be the fastest runner because I don't because I don't know what's really going on there I don't want to run from one thing into another so I'm Skate plan I went to skinwalker ranch. Oh you did. Yeah, how'd it go? well we I was doing it for a television show and we interviewed a bunch of people that live there and

One guy there's a lot of there was a lot of people that they wanted to be interviewed Then when we got there they chickened out It seemed like there might be some drug use going on in the surrounding areas. A few people seemed like a little on tilt but I think that's a good part of America. I think there's a lot of people you could find some packets of people in America that are just doing drugs. So I wouldn't say that that was what it was but this one guy that I talked to didn't seem like that at all he seemed very respectable. I don't remember what he did but he was a very smart guy, blue collar guy, and lived

in this very modest house. And he had this story of this thing that flew into his yard and through his house. And he said it was a small orb, and he said it seemed to be communicating with them and Wow, this guy didn't have any other bullshit stories You didn't have any just one of just this one experience that he said was beautiful We said it was incredible that this thing seemed like it was alive It seemed like it was communicating with him and it went right through the walls and then and it went through the wall again It disappeared had a similar case So every March I go to Seaside, Oregon,

because they have a paranormal conference. And I'm not into the paranormal stuff, but my friends are. So I want to listen and I want to learn. Right. Because this is me trying to get over my fear of going in there. You have a fear of paranormal or a fear of being around the people that believe in paranormal? No, the paranormal because of certain things

that I've heard from when I was a kid, you know, and you have to overcome some of those childhood fears and stuff like that. Okay. So when I was there, I was giving us talking about my app and all this other stuff, and these two Asian ladies were watching me walk on the stage. And I was like, why are they looking at me like that? I was like, is my flight down or something? What did I do?

You know, and as soon as I stepped off the stage, I said, Mr. Logan, what are they? What are they? And I was like, what do you mean? She pulls out on her phone the most beautiful, pristine picture of an orb sitting in a doorway. And I'm like, what happened there? And she said it was my birthday.

And she said all my family was there. And she said, but I got tired, so I was laying down. And she said, I heard like this electrical discharge going on. And she said it came right through her wall, started floating across her room. She said it got to her doorway. She screamed, and all her family came. And the son, I guess it was, took the picture of the orb. And I was so amazed by her story, I even forgot to ask her was, took the picture of the orb. And I was so amazed

by her story, I even forgot to ask her to give me a copy of the picture. How long ago was this? This was like two years ago. So fairly modern phone. Yeah. It was an iPhone. She was, they were from Northern California and they drove up to this thing. And I'm just like, so what happened? She said it actually sat there and did this like a heartbeat getting bigger and smaller. And then she said it just kind of went back out the way it came in. And she goes, what are they? You were on the task

force. Don't you know about these things? And I was like, whoa, you know, we're not omnipotent. You know, we're trying to learn just like you are. And every year I've been back there twice now. And every year I go, hey, if those two ladies are in here, can we talk? And they haven't shown back up. But he sounded just like your story of what happened to this other. Yeah, he was the only guy that was compelling. There was a bunch of other people that had goofy stories of bulletproof wolves that appeared out of the mist and like, okay. They just seemed like some people just wanted to be on TV, which is normal, right? You show up with cameras, people tell stories.

And this is another show that I worked on once. It was called Game Show in My Head, and this is pretty funny. We told people, so there was a, the game show was we would take a contestant, the contestant knew that they were going to pull pranks on people but they didn't know what the prank was going to be. And so we had a piece in their ear and we would put them out in the public and my thing was that I had to tell them that they are a news reporter and that someone had just seen a UFO and had an encounter with an alien right there in Hollywood, but the person who was the witness took off.

Would you be willing to go on camera and say it was you? And everybody said yes. They all did. And people had crazy stories. They talked about being abducted and being on the ship and experience and they were communicating with me They just fully made up stories. Hmm, and That was an eye-opener for me. I was like, wow, you put a camera on people They just are so hyped to be on TV that just bullshit you Yeah, they can that was because the guy the guy who was in on it was shocked too.

Because he was like, I can't believe that these people just started fucking lying. Yeah, when you're getting grandized like that, that's where you kind of have people that do that, is just when grandized or enlarged themselves. Sure, everybody wants to, especially when you put a camera on people. But then you get in with other people like the whistleblowers I know, they've pretty much given up everything like me. But this guy was not interested in much attention. He just wanted to tell us his story and he was a regular dude.

We talked about all kinds of stuff. He had a big trout on his wall. He had a trout, like when they make trophies out of fish, they don't really make trophies anymore. Now what they do is they take a photo and the measurements and then they make like a plastic version of that fish that looks exactly like it. That's how they do is they take a photo and the measurements and then they make like a plastic version of that fish That looks exactly like it. That's how they do it But this guy had like a real trophy fish that he had mountain like they don't even do that anymore

So I started asking him questions and came show my head. Yeah, that's it But a long time ago, but the point is this guy was a sincere dude He was telling me how he caught the fish, you know when I'm asking people questions about stuff I want to know how you think you know when I'm talking to some guy that tells me at any counter with an orb I want to hear what you talk about like how do you talk about you at work? How do you talk about you with your kids? How do you how do you treat your dog? You know how do you you know I'm saying like I'm trying to like get a gauge of this guy He seems super sincere just a a regular good guy, very

accommodating, like very friendly. You would have made a good analyst. Maybe. Because the thing that we're trying to do is the all-source analyst is to look at all aspects of what happened. Yeah. And sometimes people just go in there, well, I mean, the thing that really upsets me is when I was part of the task force was someone just handing me a picture and just going so what is it? No context, no nothing, you're just like okay. You can't be fake. I don't know what the fuck that is. Let me put it through the image analyzer. I don't know if you've had any mental issues or you know I mean someone showed me something that it was a button on a glass. And at first I was like, that looks really intriguing. But there was something about it that was just,

it wasn't quite right. And I'm like, I think this is fake, but I don't know why. And then finally the guy said, ah, button on a glass. That's the thing that, do you know that feeling? Have you ever seen photos of miniature cars? Yes. There's that autistic kid that does that Yeah, yeah, there's what I was getting at there's something wrong with the car that even in a photo You know, it's not a real car. Yes, you know, it's a miniature car. Your brain is very good at that

it's real that's a real weird one because It doesn't make sense Like there's a just there's a perception you look at it like oh that's a miniature car it's a fake that's like a hot wheel because they're really good now. Like if you pull up a photo of like a miniature Mustang. There's an autistic kid out there that that's all he does. He gets miniature cars and puts them in a real background. Yeah I've seen that yeah so these are miniatures okay well that

background that's really good that's a lot better than normal. Yeah but you can see the tires are not resting you know flat like there's a weight to the car. That's a good point that's a good point. See those are things as an analyst you look at in the image. It's just you're looking at you know things like that. Yeah that's the kid. 13 year old. There you go. Yeah okay so he's really good at it because these really these look other than what you said Jay that you don't see the weight of the tires. But it's like okay that one right there that Nissan. Click on that one the blue one. Yeah, that's a Nissan GTR I'm looking at that. I'm like that's a fake car. I don't know why Yeah, that looks like a model, but why does it look like a model? It's got to be that driver's window

It's the decals to me. I bet everything looks pretty fucking good. Yes. Well, yeah, it looks good But there's this little details that your mind is picking up on going. It's not quite right, right? I mean, there's something about it, right? And what is that something about it? This this kind of falls into the area to of when you do see a UAP, something about it is what's telling you that it's a UAP. But you're also looking in your in your mind's, you know, memory bank to say, this is fake. This can't be real, because it's not doing X, it's not doing whatever. Right. And then sometimes you end up going, it's just not real, I'm throwing it out of my head. And then all of a sudden,

someone either tells you something that makes you go back and go, oh my God, that thing did that. So maybe it was real. Or you see something about it, something weird about it that just triggers you and you're like, oh, OMG. And now your whole view on the whole universe is changing because you're like, I did see that. That's one of the litmus tests I give people. Because I have a lot of people that ask me, can you vet this guy? He says he's had an encounter.

And then I kind of go through the experience, because the one that I had in the desert, there was a telepathic kind of a thing that happened during that conversation I had with that gentleman in the desert. And there's parts of that that people have only really experienced it. They actually know about, like the residual data that or information that's left behind in your own mind, because you're sharing a mind space and things like this. And there's certain things that when I ask questions of people that you know sometimes I can tell right then and

there you weren't there you know that's not my experience but the people that do describe it and I know that they're telling the truth there's certain characteristics about that communication type that you only get when you've been talking no kidding telepathically with right Well, especially you as a person who's had an experience correct you you have something to gauge There's certain things like in your field like if you ran into a dude at the airport. There was a faker You know There's a lot of guys love like put on like fake military outfits and pretend there and then they get questioned by stolen valor

Yeah, yes, it's weird But people are weird people will make up crazy stories So like when you're dealing with the craziest of crazy stories, which is UFOs have been in contact with me. I'm special They chose me to talk to me. I don't feel special at all. I was accidental Well, that's probably because it was a real story. So when he first showed up, I was one of the first people to get his When he first showed up first thing I I read through everything I was like Hmm. I'm gonna have to run a background check on this guy, right? He might be kook right and then I was like so I did the basics and then I called up David Grush and I was like, boy do I have a doozy for you. I can't do anything with this guy because I, there's not enough here

for me to do a thorough background check but boy you gotta listen to what this guy has to say. And from there David took it on and I was like, he came back to me and goes Well, this guy looks to be the real deal and I was like, holy crap So we kind of teased that then so let's let's get to your experience. Why don't you tell everybody what happened? Just doing my job at Nellis we had two things we did we did the telephone monitoring where's Nellis that's in Nevada so working at Nellis Air Force Base for the DET3. And that's where the program, they have a shop of four guys. That was one of them that would go out

and monitor for the program. So anyway, the other side of my job was also doing monitoring for everybody else that wasn't in the program. And when you say monitoring, what do you mean by that? You're actually plugging into like, just like you heard, tapping telephones, all the ways we tell the community, you know, all the telecommunications type. We made sure that we listened to radios, we listened to radio waves, all that.

And we gather it all in. And what we're tasked to do is, you know, say a commander at Wright-Patterson, you know, we went to do, it's always a two-week mission mostly, unless it's part of an operation like Desert Storm, and you stay for a month or two, and then you change out teams. But two weeks is the standard. So we go two weeks to Wright-Patterson. We gather all the information we can on all the telecommunications means, and we also have an OSI team that's trying to sneak in the doors and get into the

facilities they shouldn't be at just to test the security and that's all we're there for and at the end of the day on the last Friday we go in and we talk to the staff and then about 90 days later we put in a final report and give that again back to the staff and that's kind of how we rolled. So we're going up range for those kind of things. We don't do the telephone monitoring when we go up range to the test range at Nellis. That was what we called red forcing. And what our job was there is we were also trained to do combat ops against our own pilots so that we could help them survive in a wartime environment. And that was done at the top of Black Mountain and that we call that a little schoolhouse there and then if you walk up another few yards there's really those big golf ball looking radars or satellite dishes were up at

the very top. But anyway that's where we were heading this one day. So we all packed up. We're in Beatty, Nevada, which is the burrow in, I can tell you. That's where we always hold up at. And we take off from there every morning to go do the AM and the PM push. That's what you call it when the war is on. You call it the push. So we had one in the morning called AM push, one in the afternoon, PM push. So we were all heading up for the AM push in a convoy.

There's three vehicles, probably about three to four people per vehicle. I'm in the lead vehicle with the ranking guy. He's driving and I'm right behind him. And then there's another gentleman in the passenger seat across from the driver. And then there's a young lady next to me. And we're all going up. And the ranking guy had been there the week before and he had seen the craft Fly by because that was and that one's out there on the internet. You can pull down the video

There's a report that goes along with it. There's a video that we can watch right now right now. Yeah, what would he search search for? Let me think Nellis test range UFO 1994. Dun dun dun. Who filmed this? This was filmed by the operators on the range because we're putting these pilots in a risky situation by playing war with them, but we're training them. So if there is any kind of a mishap or a pilot or plane goes down, everything needs to be recorded. So they have... This is it right here? Yes.

So this is being taken, this video is being taken by one of these cameras that's up on the range. And along the bottom you see that this is also trying to lock on to the craft so it can follow it as it goes in and out because this is the kind of lock on to the craft so it can, you know, follow it as it goes in and out because this is the kind of way that you want to track if there's a craft that is having problems. This is moving very erratically. Right.

So this is what my, the ranking guy saw. Can I pause you for a second? This tracking, is this manual or is this like some sort of automated system? It's an automated system. So the automated system is having a hard time locking on. Locking on to it. Yeah, if it locks on, you'll see a big spike. And that means that it finally locks on.

Right now it's trying to, but something is stopping it from locking on. And they think it was the craft. It's moving like crazy side to side all over. There's actually a recording that goes with it where you hear the guys going, hey, does anybody know what this is? What's going on here? Okay, that sounds terrible. They need better mics.

Honestly, it has to be a podcast mic. Oh, I'm sure. But he's saying, what is that? I don't know. We're having a hard time locking onto it. Right. This is the video operator. So, the following week after this happens this video is taken

The ranking guy who had been there the week before and saw this thing flying He takes us in this when you go on the range through this one gate here It goes up a little ways and then there's a contom in area. It's got a very small place where you can change your tires get gas And then there's a contoman area. It's got a very small place where you can change your tires get gas You know just make you know minor maintenance to get you but home if you have a car that's busted And then in the back of that contoman area, there's two huts that look like campers really Glorified campers. So the video operators are in the one that's off to the the north east of the the contoman and in the very corner of it and the ranking guy just says we all have to go in here we're gonna go talk to the video

operators we have to do this and and this was because the week prior everybody came back to garrison or back to our unit and they had seen this thing and they were all talking about this UFO so we go in there and there's the video operator he has us all write UFO. So we go in there and there's the video operator He has us all write our names down whether we were there and saw it the first week or not Then he makes us all sit down and watch that video And he says do you know what this is? We're like no and Then he just said okay. Thank you. And then we as after everybody that was there

Saw it and had wrote their name down, we were allowed to leave. And that was all that was required. And so I was like, well, what was that all about? But then as I'm exiting, this lady that had been sitting against the wall on the far part of the, this little hut that we were in, and she like grabs my arm and she just says, there's somebody on the range, don't talk to them. And she was really my arm and she just says there's somebody on the range Don't talk to him and she was really really freaked out and I'm like, thanks strange freaky lady

Got it. And I'm like, whatever So like we all hop out we get in the vehicles and then start taking off towards quartz mountain because right at that Contoman area there's a hard right there's a hard right that goes off to quartz mountain and About a mile half a mile to a mile down that road. It's all dirt road up by the way There's this guy it looks like he's wearing a uniform like we are you got battle dress uniform on So he's he's sees us and he starts to look like he's running and he's got this really weird Run like his arms are kind of flailing behind It's like he was running against the hurricane wind and it was like he was gonna fall over at any time and I was like yeah it's a bit

windy today but ain't that bad. So it looked really strange and then I began to notice his skin tone looked like he might be hypothermic and I'm thinking oh crap this dude's been out here it's freaking freezing out here because it was a very cold day and the wind was blowing it was you know those cold days where it didn't matter how many layers you had on and so as we're getting closer I'm talking to the ranking guy hey we need to slow down so anyway I'm thinking this guy's probably in big trouble I need to pull off my jacket I need to give him something to get warm real quick so I'm starting to do that and we're approaching and by the time we I get my jacket most of the way off he's right

there at the you know the corner of the front of the car. So he looks pale is that what you're saying? He looked like an albino with a very bluish kind of undertone. If you could imagine you know... So you're assuming like you're immediately associating that with like he he's freezing. Yeah, because that's all I could equate it to. And then as I'm starting to open my door to try to administer aid to this guy, the dude in the front passenger seat screams, he's got no ears. And I thought that was pretty rude because I was like, the guy's in trouble. Does he have a hat on?

Does he have a hat on? He's got a hat on and he's got BDUs that look absolutely clean, pristine. And when you're up range, you do not wear your cleanest uniform. You're in a dirty environment. You wear your scuffed up boots. You don't take them with you. So he's got clean battle dress uniform. Everything.

I'm like very out of place. Yeah. It looks very out of place when I finally do it. But anyway, I step out onto the roadway and this guy screams that he's got no ears. And I just thinking it's really rude. And then I close the door and I look up and he's got no freaking ears and his eyes are twice as big. And I just like, yeah, what the hell did I just walk into? This guy's not from around here. How far away from him are you? Probably from me to look just a few feet. Yeah, just a few, just talking

distance. Okay. And I'm starting to freak out, but then he starts to talk to me and it's not my language, but it's coming to the understanding is like coming into my mind about every word he's saying. Cause he's actually saying words. He's saying words, but it doesn't sound like anything I've heard before. But you're understanding what he's saying. But I'm understanding. So I know there's a telepathic thing going on here and it calms me down at the same time because I'm having to respond to him and he's like hello I'm having trouble with my craft I need some repair material do you know where I could find some tritium and this is what he's talking to me about and I'm like you mean titanium because I didn't know anything about Trent team at the time

but Titanium he's like no, it's not it And I'm like at this point in my career I had just left the program so I knew where dreamland was and I pointed to the mountain range because you can see for for days in the desert but I pointed towards the mountain range and I said, dreamland's just over there. And this wave of emotion hit me like disgust, like I am not gonna talk to those barbarians and murderers.

You know? And- Wow, so he was saying that to you. Yeah. Or his reaction to going to the military base was- Exactly, yeah. I was not gonna talk- But he did not like it. He said, I am not going to talk to those people. And. I was not going to... He did not like it. He said, I am not going to talk to those people.

And then I was like, well, shit. And it was barbarians and murderers? He literally, that was what he called them, yes. And mentally, that's what it was. But the emotion... Is this trinitium? Is this a real thing? Well, that's what...

I've had a lot of friends, there's analysts also that were on the top secret network that were trying to help me understand what material throwing everything at him we're like is it best is it best and he's like finally that's the one when they hit trinitium I was like that's what it was that's what he said and what is trinitium it's a type of well can he bring it up on the yeah sure yeah because it should pop up on Wikipedia pretty quick. But it has some properties that probably don't work. Tritium. Are you saying tritium?

Yeah, tritium is, that's the stuff that's in lume. Like in your watch, when your watch glows. You know, they make those where they, they're basically radioactive isotopes that stay lit. So like if you get like a marathon watch Marathon makes military watches and the it doesn't need like this car this watch you need the light and a light charges the loom And then when it's dark out you could read the hands for like a few hours So the thing that needs to put on the end of the guns, right? Exactly. They still do like sig has I'm also put a tree in there is so what it's I did that

That's not giving me much so trin T. Um Chunky glow and the dark glitter. These are all like these are game websites. Oh, I say no Okay, so it was tritium then I'm maybe mispronouncing tritium is that's that radioactive isotope. Mm-hmm That's the stuff that emits light. So it emits a weak form of radiation. A rare radioactive isotope of hydrogen with a half-life of 12.3 years. So this is what he's asking me for. So he's asking you for that stuff? Tritium? Yep. And I'm like, I don't know where to get that.

Oh, look at that. It's used in boosted fission weapons and thermonuclear weapons. Oh great That sounds pretty sure I wonder what the fuck it's doing on your wrist Is there anybody this is what the best image that we have what he could have looked like? Oh boy Can you send that to Jamie? Yeah, I don't know Jamie's number, but I will find a way to Yeah My phone I would but I will find a way to Yeah If I had my phone I would but I guess out there. Yeah airdrop it to Jamie Do you know how to do that? There was that? And there's a three-dimensional works with UFOs. You better know how to do that

Well, there's a three-dimensional image of the craft as well. That is really spot-on from what I saw that day Yeah, because not only did I see this guy running towards us and talking to him, but off the shoulder of the, on the north side of the roadway, that's where the craft was just resting on the desert floor. And that's, I got a really good look at it at that point. And it, this guy did a 3D rendering of the description. And it's like, it's spoton as I've ever seen it's almost perfect so he asks you for tritium you tell him dreams this is what it looked

like this is what the guy looked like pretty close to it yo the nose is the nose was a little bit rounder on the end but that was a really good rendition yeah his eyes just his eyes almost came out to here on the temple Wow and That would freak me out It freaked me out. I mean honestly, I'm not an easy guy to get you know to get freaked out But that really put that like you yeah, you just saw an alligator pop up out of the water kind of right So when you tell him go to dreamland it says I'm not gonna go where those murderers and barbarians are and then what happens? And he said no, so I was like well where else can I possibly point him to him like I don't know any

Metalurgists or whatever so I'm thinking to him to me to myself and I related to him I said well, I'm taking college classes down in you know in the city of Vegas, Las Vegas, at the community college, but I have a geophysical professor that I'm taking a class from. Maybe he has a metallurgist friend and he's like, no. So you're thinking at this time though it's a metal? I am, yes. Right, because you're thinking it's some kind of like titanium, some type of... Right, right.

And there's also when he... This is the 3D image with the craft? That is almost as spot on as I've ever seen. That is about it right there. That's almost exactly what I saw rusting on the desert floor. And so you're trying to find different people that you can connect this being to? Yeah. And what is it saying to you while you're... He thought that that was a good idea, I think, or he was like, hmm, I mean, he had that kind of, hmm, and he wanted to take action, so he just, he doesn't really even say goodbye. He just kind of turns and off he goes back to his craft.

And I'm thinking, well, okay. And I get back in the car, and sometime during that conversation with this entity, I remembered looking over at my friends in the car, and they had the weirdest look on their face like they're all zonked out totally zombie Like they couldn't even they were just drooling on themselves Well, they just because they were flabbergasted or was it because something was going on well, I figured out that maybe he what it was done by this entity because Well, I figured out that maybe he was done by this entity because none of them seem to even remember the incident.

Only a few people seem to remember that we stopped, that we had talked to somebody on the roadway, but it was mainly the people that were in the back of the convoy. So they didn't see it up close like you did? Right, like we did. So how far away would they be? They'd probably be a good two car lengths behind us. That's still enough to detect whether or not someone looks blue though, right? Correct.

And that's probably what they saw. But you know me, I'm kind of wide and I'm big. I was very muscular back then. And you're standing in front of this thing. So they'd have a difficult time because this guy stood about a good half foot shorter than me. And so they probably could see his arms from time to time, maybe catch a glimpse of his face or something.

So they probably didn't get a very good view because if you're looking at me, I'm standing right next to my door and they're behind me kind of almost obfuscated by just the angle that they're looking at him. So all the windows are tinted in those vehicles and they can't just see through the windows right to whichever on the left hand side. And the people that were in the car with you, you feel like something happened to them that like froze them? They did look like that, yeah. Like you said, just a look of just utter like, you know, like-

The guy who said he has no ears, does that guy have a recollection? That guy they can't find. They can't find him? No. I've tried, I was asked by the UEP task force David Grush to reach out to these folks the people in the car, I got a hold of one got a hold of him on LinkedIn and we started talking and You know just hey, how's the wife? How's the kids that kind of stuff? How about that UFO we met and as soon as I did that the guy just disappears and ghosts me

And I can't I don't know what happened, but he was the ranking guy in the car. The guy that was the passenger, nobody can seem to find him because they did try to verify the people in the car and I gave the names. And the young lady that was off to my right, I don't know if they contacted her, but I've heard from other people that were part of this background investigation about my story. they found two people that verified my story. And I don't know who they are. They've been told to keep their mouths shut by somebody. And I'm kind of pissed about that. But I think James Fox knows who they are and knows exactly who told them to shut up as well. But... What was that incident where James Fox

and you were on a show? What's that? Well, I shouldn't have said that James Fox knows the guy who told him to shut up, because I'm not sure if that's true. You think you might know. So this thing, does it tell you why it needs a tritium? It just says it needs it to fix its craft?

Yeah, well, along with that, this is the other part that was telepathic, when he mentions this metal and the part that he is... But it's not metal, right? Do we think it's not metal or do you think maybe it's a metal that we don't have? I think it's something or an alloy that we don't particularly make a lot of and or just can't make. But when he spoke about this, the telepathic image was almost like he opened a Sears catalog in my head that had all the specs for this part that he

was needing fixed. And it was the strangest thing. It like described some of the nano-channeling of electrical and electromagnetic stuff that was flowing through it that caused these toroidal energies to emanate on both sides of this piece of the equipment. So you, because it was describing it to you, you all of a sudden had access to all this information like downloaded into your head. It was like me, if you and I were telepathic and we were talking about a science project and he just uploaded all the information. Yeah, yeah and I could just give you all that instead of talking it out. That's what he did. Did you then try to talk to someone and relay that information and like

Download it I've had well once Because in the in the art and in the the forum we have scientists and stuff like that Yes, we're very interested to get me in a room and talk to me about this. I had people from DARPA wanting to talk to me, people from threats, departments all over the place that wanted to know more. And even when I talked to Jack Sarfati and Gary Nolan about this stuff, I was telling them things before they even opened their mouth about like when I talked to Gary Nolan I just said you got that part and you know that it has that that nano size

Atomic level Lairing that can't be reproduced unless you actually physically you're putting these atoms one at a time next to each other And he's like yeah. Yeah, that's it. You know so I'm telling him this and he already knew But I that was the first thing and so that's why I knew that what I'd been given in my head, he was giving me that high sign that yes, that's exactly what I analyzed is that piece of material I had. It sounds just like what this guy described to you and gave to you telepathically, that there's these really minute little things that create toroidal forces. They're doing things at a very small level. And then I talked to Jack Sarrafatti later, and he's got all these fantastical physics equations

about how things work. And I'm looking through his documents, and no, I can't do the math, but I can understand what he's doing with it. And just fired out asked and I said so the smaller you get because there's always that resistance level when it comes to you know putting in energy energy and then losing it because due to you know atrophy and all these other anyway that the whole thing was this that when you get smaller it actually reverses itself is that now you get even more power out of things if you have a small enough energy source that works at a very, it's kind of like

miniaturizing a fusion device of some kind. And so did you talk to someone from DARPA? Did you, you said these people wanted to talk to you? I emailed back and forth, I gave them what information I could, but. They didn't want to interview you, they wanted wanted just email At the time that's the way it went. Yeah, I've had a couple of meetings though with

different places That I can't discuss but they they did talk to me Yes, and is that information still in your head? Yeah So does it seem like a memory or it what does it seem like in your head? To me, it's like a very clear, like this is, it's just like a picture that never goes away. Could you draw that picture if someone gave you a pad and a pad? I've already done it. Yeah. Yeah. Um, is that available online? Can someone see that? Um, I don't know if I pulled that down off the top secret network, um, but I can reproduce it. All I did was just recreated in like a, Someone see that I don't know if I pulled that down off the top secret network

But I can reproduce it all I did was just recreated in like a PowerPoint you draw thing but but does it remain in your head like normal memory like, you know Like you learn certain things in school. Yeah stay in your head the telepathy was it felt absolutely normal I mean, there was no headache. There's no dizziness. No buzzing What I mean is is the memory the same as a regular memory? Oh, yeah, yeah. Or is it clear? No, I remember it as just being part of the conversation, just like a normal conversation. Yes.

That's what it feels like. But it just somehow or another in that conversation, he put this information in your head. Exactly. And then it just leaves? And then he leaves when he realizes that, know maybe there's some other venues maybe me mentioning that there might be a metallurgist on staff somewhere that maybe that prompted him to think oh yeah maybe I should go research this or that and then maybe I'll find somebody that I could talk to. Something like that may have happened. Did you get a sense of where this thing was from?

Yeah there was a star map from that day, but it also relates to the lunch hour after we started going back up to Black Mountain. I had a very strong compunction to go eat my lunch outside even though it was deathly cold. And I don't know what prompted me to do that. Again, maybe he was giving me a telepathic message, but after I walked about 150 feet down the road, the dirt road from the top of of Black Mountain I don't remember what happened after that. All I have are two images that keep on flashing back. I remember seeing the

schoolhouse from about 150 feet above or 200 feet above the schoolhouse. I remember looking at the rooftop and the other only other memory is I've got this star map in my head and David Grush made me reproduce that on a PowerPoint slide and I handed that into him because I have no idea what the what it was but he's like do you understand what this is and I was like no I have no idea he's like do you know what star constellations are I said I know what the Big Dipper is that That's about it. And he's like, this is the constellation Leo. And I'm like, oh, I didn't know that. And so he's like, yeah, this is a really close rendition

of that, and I'm like, well, that's kind of cool that I could reproduce it just out of my head. And not even know what the heck it was. But I did know it was a star system. And for some reason, you just felt compelled to draw this particular star system. Well, just after David Grush asked me to, yes. And was there a specific planet in that star system? Yeah, the red star that's kind of like, you know, there's a part of the Leo system that has like

this like very sharp turn into it. I guess it looks like a nose or part of a triangle. And at the tip of that is the red star and it's reticuli, I think. But anyway, that one seems to peak at... What's that what they always say about aliens? Zeta reticuli? Yeah. And then the strangest thing about this, this is what I'm talking about when it comes to telepathy, when you're sharing that mind space, there's some residue memory there because they've kept pressing me on it and he said can you tell me about the red star and at first I'm like well known and I was like and all of a sudden some memory came back and I was like holy crap yeah that's where he's from that's that's his home star system and he came from there that's his home star system. And he came from there. That's his home. And then we just went

on from there and he said, did you know that they've actually just now discovered a few years ago that there's exoplanets around that star? And I was like, no, I had no idea. So all these things started coming together at that point. And that's when they started saying, okay, well, we're going to do some more vetting. And within about a month or so, they were bringing me to Congress and everything else happened after that. Now, what is the rest of your life like after that day? So you have life before you experience this creature. And then now you know that this is a thing. It's a thing. Yep, and I changed me

How do you explain this if you could imagine the entire human race you and me You don't have to talk to me, but you can feel my presence you can feel who I am my personality and share in all of that and Then imagine that by millions. The entire planet, you can actually commune with them. It brings with that a level of civility in the control of your thoughts, because right now, we don't read each other's minds.

So our minds are like, oh, look at that girl. Oh, look at that. You know, the sports over here, there's a football game on. We're so distracted. But this guy's, when I was engaged with him telepathically, it was like civility to the maximum. It was like very courteous. He waited for me to say, he'd talk. And it was like, just like we do, we have certain etiquette. But on top of that, there was this part of him that he left me with that was part of the community

of the consciousness that he is able to feel all the time. And that has never left me, is that there's a community of consciousness out there that when they've been living for so many years with this sort of ability it has changed them for the better because their minds are under control finally their emotions aren't running them like you were talking about addictions and things like this they don't run them their lives like that anymore because of it and if you do they end up in a criminal list somewhere I would imagine

but there was such an ever since then then, that feeling of peacefulness and civility is what I've strived for. Never has left me. Never has left me. Whoa. Um, it stays with you, but what, like, what is your experience trying to relay these thoughts in this experience? That had to be weird in the sense that, like, it's very hard to believe.

I mean, I believe you, but it's very, it's one of those things where, you know, you talk to an alien? Like, that's, most people are going to think you're ridiculous. Well, yeah, and honestly, that's why I need people to back me up on it, because this is the thing that we're trying to do with the whistleblowers. We all kind of know each other just like Logan would tell you, just that – I call them low for short sometimes. It's a slip up.

Aaron Ross Powell Understandable. Richard Hildesheim Anyway, so anyway, we get to talking about stuff, but we don't know what's going on daily with each other. It's like I've brought whistleblowers forward to Congress since I went forward, but I don't know their lives. I don't talk to them every day like I do some of them. And it's a strange thing, but the more we seem to be coming out now that we've got these few weeks now where we've got folks like, you know, Jake Barber and folks like that

coming forward, now I'm starting to piece things together in my mind because now I'm hearing his side of the story because I didn't want to be part of the retrievals. Well guess what? He was on it and he's telling that part and I'm like oh no wonder they did that to me. Oh that's that makes sense. You know now I'm making those conclusions now because of what he said. But then if you try to put us all in a room we're all deathly scared that you know some jerk is gonna come out of the Department of Defense and shoot us all in a room, we're all deathly scared that, you know, some jerk is gonna come out of the Department of Defense and shoot us all or do a drone

strike on us and kill us all and just have done with it and then get on with their lives again. So you've got this problem here with us coming forward in a group. You're really worried that much that someone would try to take you out? They've already messed with my clearance, they've already shown me that they can break into my car on the NSA campus. They're letting me know. They were trying to intimidate me. Because they don't want you talking about this?

Exactly. But do you know why they don't want you talking about this? Yeah. Why? It's because they know that what they have done, that there are some parts of it that were really bad decisions in the long run. And they don't want anybody to crack open any part of this because they know it's going to cause questions to happen.

And they're going to get put on the spot. Okay. So you finally are coming clean on the fact that we've got NHI here, but we've got other whistleblowers that have these concerns. That's what they're going to have to face. And when you say bad decisions, like what do you mean by bad decisions? Well think about it if Roswell did happen what they do they chop up some you know think about it you'd have etiquette if it was a Russian craft that fell you'd catalog every part of that

crash site and you'd repatriate the dead bodies to where they came from. We give them back to the Russians in honor. And here we are, we've got a civilization just crashed there in Roswell, and look at what kind of crap we did to them. And we took all their stuff like it was some kind of a treasure trove, and now we own it? Hell no. You're talking about a craft that was manufactured on another part of the galaxy or something That they can't explain nobody knows where it came from And here they are treating these people like they're just some kind of a lab experiment Let's chop him up a little more, you know

And then you know if they ever got approached by that the people that came to look for them afterwards I wouldn't want to be the person that answered them. Well, I'm sorry. We chopped up your buddy We had an interesting talk about this there's a video online where it shows like some great kind of strung up and they're asking him questions and whatever and I Was asking him I said If you were an NHI and you saw that and this is what the humans are broadcasting Sorry, and and and this is what the humans are broadcasting. Sorry.

It's okay. And this is what the humans are broadcasting. I said, I'd be like, yo, they got Jimmy. Look what they're doing to Jimmy. Right. It's on. We're going to Earth. We're going to go get Jimmy back.

But that video of the alien, that's fake, right? The video of where they're interrogating some gray? I truly believe it is fake because like we've... It looks so fake. Everybody says... Looks like a puppet. Yeah, they talk telepathically and here he is, oh, here's this voice coming out and whatever. Yeah.

Yeah. But we've always assumed that they've got the same type of, some type of emotions, a lot like us, but maybe they're much more controlled, much more refined, you know? Kind of like how we can... Not that I'm saying that... Kind of like us now versus us 50,000 years ago. Yeah. Well, honestly, when I had the telepathic experience, it was very difficult for me to distinguish what emotions and feelings were coming from me as opposed to him. It was very

obvious when he felt disgust about going to ask about things, because I was like, well, I'm not disgusted at him, and I have that ability to go, that's not me feeling that, it must be coming from him. Right, but it was your emotions. Right, but everything else felt like we were sharing, literally, not only the thoughts, but the emotions that went along with it.

It was a true sharing of a mind space. And he felt just like me. His inner voice is just like my inner voice. His feelings are just like our feelings. He feels sadness. He feels all the things that I do. What is the general consensus in the people in the program about Roswell? They don't like talking about it. I think that was where they probably are trying to bury it even amongst themselves, because they know they made some very bad mistakes about that first confrontation that could

have been a lot better than what happened. So the general consensus is that this is a real event. And they don't like talking about it, but does everybody sort of agree? Or are there people that are dissenting? Do they have dissenting opinions about whether or not it was a crash UFO? They've heard of dissension. I've heard people say they don't want to talk about it. They don't want to talk about it but that it wasn't ours.

Right. Well, the only thing, this is again when we talk about the intel analysts and everybody else that was on that forum, it's totally weird that you can go through all these different things as an intel analyst and say okay It's not China. All right, it's not that all right. Let's look at Russia anything. Nope. It's not Russian Is it one of ours? Well, hell no, it's not one of ours. Well, who the heck is it then? Does anybody talk about it? Is there anybody that has shared information about Roswell to you? Yeah that has shared information about Roswell to you? Yeah. Is there anything that you could talk about? No.

No? No. It's all top secret? I just gave the person the confidence that I would not mention it. Got it. Got it. And Logan, have you had personal experiences other than the one when you were a child? Yeah.

But I didn't know what I was seeing, but you know, like after the program came out, I mean not came out, but after James Fox finished editing everything, he says, well you haven't seen everything put together, so here you go. And you know, tell me if you, you know, don't like the way you look or whatever. And I'm going through it and he starts showing, I see the stuff about Calvin, the Calvin Scotland image, have you seen that one? Yes.

So that image was taken, if I remember correctly, in August 1990. Pull that image up, Jane? Yeah. You could just type in Calvin, UFO, whatever. So I'm going, I had just cross-trained from, yeah, that one. I had just cross-trained from maintenance into intelligence, and I was going to my first Intel assignment. And I'm flying from Philadelphia to Frankfurt, Germany to Rhein-Main Air Base. Somewhere between Iceland and Scotland, this thing is zipping around in the clouds,

doing this ziggy-zaggy thing. I don't know what it was doing, but it was doing this. The sun was just coming up, and I'm eating a Philly cheesesteak and the other guy's with me is eating a hoagie and the other guy that's standing up over the top, I'm like, anybody know what that is? And they're like, dude, what is that? And then all of a sudden in my head I'm like, oh this is my first Intel assignment. I'm gonna get clued into some cool-ass shit. But I don't know what the hell that is. But I'm just thinking it looks just like that. It looks just like that. And the way it was moving in the clouds, it was like because the shadow

it was like going from like that color to like dark and then light again as it was moving in. And it would go into a cloud on one vector and come out on another vector. And I'm like what what is that? So didn't know what was going on. So I called James back. I was like, dude, dude, where's this talk to me? You know, we're all excited. And he goes, explain to me everything. And what happened was I get to my unit, and I talked to them and I go, we have a weapons tactics guy, he's, you know, they're the best of the best in their leading the group. And I was like, so what is that thing out there? And he goes, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Now, this is in January of 1990. That picture is August in 1990. And what I didn't realize was that the Belgian wave, I don't know if you were familiar with that, a whole bunch of triangular devices were seen over Belgium for almost a whole year. So they just call it the Belgian wave. Police officers saw it, they launched F-16s after them, whatever. Are there photographs of that at all? No, but the general that's in charge actually gave a briefing to everybody and showed what the F-16 radar was seeing. And I guess every time they tried to get close to it, it would just pull away just far enough, you know, that they couldn't catch it. And then when they

would try to cage it in the radar system, it would move to the left. You know, it was playing with them. So, but I didn't know any of that. So I just kind of was like, yeah, okay, I'm stupid. Maybe it was part of my imagination, but what I saw as a kid kept coming back into my head so dead the storm happens whatever and I'm at my base and British AWACS shows up and They're looking at me in there. I still had my accent my British accent. They're looking at me going What are you flying with the Yanks for and I'll go what do you mean? They said? You know and I told them my, my family thing. They said, why don't you come fly with us? I'm like, sure. Let me ask my

boss. My boss says, you ain't got nothing going on. Go fly with them. So we're flying around and finally I go, I go, Hey guys, uh, what's that thing in the sky that does the Ziggy's Aggie thing? Do you know what I'm talking about? And they're like, you know. And I was like, no, I don't know. Don't play with me. And they're like, come on, Logan, you know. And then finally they pull out this tape and they plug it in and it shows Europe,

all the aircraft flying around. And you see this thing go through the middle of it real fast. Like all the other aircraft, the sweeper radar, you're just seeing these minute movements. This thing is like, it's gone. And I was like, who's that? And they go, you don't. I was like, look, stop playing with me.

You know? Come to find out, they said, well, that's your SR-71. And I was like, well, that ain't him. And they're like, okay. And then he looks at the other guy and he said, show him the other one. And they show me this radar scope again. And this time there's a other guy and he said, show him the other one. And they show me this radar scoping in. And this time there's a target in the middle of,

not in the middle of the screen, but off to the side. It was like, it could have been like East Germany or whatever, but every sweep of the radar, he was somewhere else. And I was like, that guy, I was so excited. I said, that MF right there, yeah, who's that guy? And they go, you know. I was like, look, stop this. I don't know and they finally said we don't know either. They said

We just assumed it was you Americans playing with us Yeah, we don't know a lot of times. Yeah, we don't know who I ever serious think that too Everything's America if they can't explain it, right? Did you see the Trump? administration address the drones today We heard about it, but I didn't yes. I had a friend tell me they made an announcement Did you see the Trump administration address the drones today? We heard about it, but I didn't see it. Yes, I had a friend tell me they made an announcement, but we were getting in the car at the time. Essentially they said it was all ours, and there was some sort of scanning that was done

that was approved, and the other ones were hobbyists. Hobbyists? And there was some sort of test that they were doing, but they were saying that it's ours, which is very, the whole thing stinks. It does. It stinks. It's a poor explanation. Yeah. I actually had a person that was up there and she said one of those things came down low and slow over her house, and she said it had the sound of a helicopter so she was like her and her husband were like oh you know it's a helicopter but then all of a sudden

they realize she said Mr. Logan were you ever aircrew I said yeah I was in special ops and I flew on helicopters and da da da da and she goes when it came down low it had the sound of a helicopter but you couldn't feel it and I go huh she goes you know when you can feel the rotor wash and it's hitting you in your chest it and I go huh she goes you know when you can feel the rotor wash and it's hitting you in your chest like boom boom boom boom she said there was none of that she said it came down slow low over a house and then it went back up and then she said it looked like it went back into formation with something else and she said that's not any drone I know of and she said it

sounded like the actual noise of the helicopter and several of the other noises from the drones were all pre-recorded just to make them sound like they were conventional aircraft. And those are the same things I've been hearing too because a lot of people are shoving videos at me a lot in their descriptions of things and some of the stuff you know looked like maybe it could be a spotlight from a helicopter and then when the light moved then you could finally see the helicopter behind the light. Then there was these other ones that was like, this is really weird.

My friend Mark saw one. Mark Norman, how did he describe it, Jamie? He said it was triangular, right? I just remember him saying SUV size. Yeah, he said it was the size of an SUV. He said it was triangular. He said it moved really fast. So when they are literally came out, they said oh, they're all manned. All right I think it was John Kirby. There was the

Speaker and I used to work at the FAA. So my first thing was well if they're manned You just call them up and say cut it out, right? Simple Yes, but it kept going on. And then later on there was a report that DHS said, oh one of the drones has come down in a mall parking lot but DHS has assessed it's just a regular drone. So when you hear that what are you thinking? DJI Mavic, something small, whatever. so one on X is is on a train going by that exact same spot and they show a drone next to two police cars and this thing is as big as the police car and I'm like so I have no way of confirming

if that's the what it's what it really was right but I have no reason to believe that this particular person was leaving. He said, he goes, I don't know what you guys are thinking, but I'm passing that mall right now and take a look. And it's like maybe a 30 second clip or something and you see this thing. It's as big as the SUVs. So- And what does it look like? It looked like a gondola with large blades on the four corners. So it looks like a very large conventional drone. Very large conventional drone.

So I'm sitting there thinking, was this a test that nobody knew about? What is going on? this to, and nobody got any answers, so. Well, the other thing is they stay in the sky for like five hours at a time. That's what puzzles me is that that takes industrial-sized power generation. Yeah, what are you using? What is that thing using?

Jamie, can you see the, right, cold fusion. Can you find the video of the disclosure today? It was uh, Yeah Well while he's talking about the disclosure the one thing I do want to mention is When I talked to the to that awacs group I thought it was kind of interesting because I said So How many know about this?

And he goes the whole squadron knows about it and I was like what he says Yeah, but we just don't talk about it because people lose their jobs over this and I was like I've heard that as well I was like so this is an AWAC and I said am I to assume that if you're British AWACS then American AWACS can see it French AWACS can see it NATO AWACS can see it and he just kind of yeah and everybody doesn't know what it is. No one's talking. And everybody just says, it's got to be America. Let's hear what this lady says. And before I turn to questions, I do have news directly from the president of the United

States that was just shared with me in the Oval Office from President Trump directly an update on the New Jersey drones. After research and study, the drones that were flying over New Jersey in large numbers were authorized to be flown by the FAA for research and various other reasons. Many of these drones were also hobbyists, recreational, and private individuals that enjoy flying drones. In time, it got worse due to curiosity. This was not the enemy. A statement from the President of the United States to start this briefing with some news. The part that gets me is the hobbyists being included in that is like,

well, they definitely were hobbyists too, because there was hobbyists in Austin around that time, there was a ton of drones. It is like people like people like whoa it's a drone party everybody was like everybody with drones is just flying them around so well that kind of makes sense it kind of makes sense so here's drone activity here's the thing that I I got to look at it from an analyst point of view the first thing that came up I was like so they knew this the whole time why couldn't they have said that from the very beginning? It's a different administration. Right. Right. And then two,

why were they required to have a skiff briefing on drones? Nobody's ever answered that. At one point Congress guys all went into a skiff and got a skiff briefing on drones. And then they didn't have a press conference about the results. Right. Which would have been, could it be that they wanted to see what happens when you fly things over a metropolitan area and you fly a bunch of drones over highly populated parts of the country? I would have a few reasons why I would say

that you'd include both federal and hobbyist drones in any kind of an activity and there's only for the hobbyists are including themselves right yeah and that could just be that they're accidentally there but the feds what were they doing yeah and why would they have a skiff that's that's my point so it's plain something people that don't know what we're talking a skiff is a place for information above secret and it's a special compartment at intelligence facility where we can go in there and talk about things that are above

above this no recording devices right no phones no nothing just right but the thing is this I mean most of us that are in the intelligence community or whatever we're gonna look at it and say something's not quite right here because this is something domestic happening over the US. So would it really require a SCIF? Especially if it's authorized. Right. Correct.

So would it really require that level of security to go on and have these guys talk? It just doesn't make any sense. The federal presence to me dictates the fact that if this was innocuous and unclassified, like you're saying, why was there not a press conference that described it and said the hobbyists are out there flying too and they're just kind of interfering with our lanes where we go and fly normally between one place to another? That never came out. So why was the SCIF even mentioned that something that they did release in the press is that they were receiving briefings that were in a classified

environment? Why? Yeah, there's still the problem with these drones popping up all over the world, especially over military facilities, and that part's not been addressed. It's just the other stuff that they, you know... Right, that was Wright-Patterson Air Force base had to get closed down, right? Wright-Patterson, Langley Air Force base, there's others, and then there's reports of stuff in Australia, there's reports of things in other places in the world. Let me ask you this and tell me if this makes sense. If you were the government and you knew that there were non-human intelligence that were operating vehicles above our cities, would a way to sort of obfuscate that, to

launch a bunch of our drones as well and have some shit that you could explain and then tell people don't worry about it was just drones, it was our drones. Like see here's our drone, here's a drone that crashed look it's got propellers normal drone yeah it's big but it's normal you have no idea how many people have said that already yeah yeah you're going in the right direction yeah you've heard that one you've heard the other theory they're looking for a dirty nuke right they're looking for that one scared the shit out of me yeah I did too honestly I thought that's what it was about but and then they have what looking for HVT is like

Anti-terrorist or looking for terrorist groups because we were I think at that time it went through the press that there was over a thousand of these You know jihadists that were in our midst. We don't know where they're at, right? You know kind of thing Maybe they're looking for those and those are so those are just some of the theories that you come up with with this kind of a scenario. And then there was the guy, you know, the congressman that said, oh, there's an Iranian mothership out there, and we were like, what? You know. In the ocean. Yeah. None of this stuff was making any sense. And then you have to

wonder, where was he getting his intel? Because if it's that crappy, those people need to be fired. Well, you gotta take another thing into the calculus, and that is, wasn't this worldwide? I mean, we got reports from China even that this stuff was happening. And they don't just have hobbyists flying stuff around in their country. Maybe they don't, maybe they have a much tighter control

over their media so they don't have to obfuscate. They don't have to trick ususcate. They don't have to Yeah Trick this one part that I find very confusing is just like if that's happening in Europe and China and all these other places What really is going on? Well, I could have just didn't know them and just said hey Yeah, I'm gonna be doing a test in this area. No don't want to scare anybody whatever But we're just gonna test in this area if it's just ours Yeah, right But if it's not ours and there's a bunch of shit flying around there and we want to confuse people

Wouldn't you have a bunch of conventional drones and fly them low over city so people could clearly see them in a totally different way And I not had all this hubbub going on so yeah, you're right, but why would you if you know the truth? Why would you leave the Americans afraid of what's flying over their head? I think they're still, look, assuming you guys are completely accurate about all this, if they have had this information for a long time, I would assume that there's a lot of pressure to never release it. I think there's probably a lot of problems with lying to Congress, lying to Congress about budgets and allocation of resources for these programs that are all top secret,

like how have you done this, what have you done, who's responsible, who made that call, is that even legal, and who are you that if you've been in contact with non-human intelligence and you have retrieved crafts, who are you to keep that from the rest of the world? Exactly. And speak for the American government for that if you're not officially a part of it. Right, especially if you're not officially, I mean you don't have the clearance to do what you're doing. Right, I mean they're making decisions for the entire human race, not just America but the whole race, and that's what my beef was when in the film when James Fox asked me about that, well, why are you doing it, you know, kind of a thing.

And I was like, well, I feel like this is the right of every man, woman and child on the face of the earth to know the truth about we're not alone. That has nothing to do with the weapons systems and the classified parts that I know of. But the fact that we're not alone, shouldn't that be something that everybody should be invited to make their own decision on? Yeah, I would imagine that. But I would also imagine if you wanted to keep your job, if you have a high intelligence clearance and you're working for the government and you're a long time career employee of

the government, you want to keep moving up the ladder and keep your fucking mouth shut. Right. And that's where people have to make that decision on their own that you know have they seen enough malfeasance to want to report it or not. And they're gonna throw their whole life into a tizzy if they do that. And that's what happened to me. Yeah. And what has it been like since then? Have you gotten support from more people than you thought you would or if more people throwing you under the bus than you expected? I actually feel more support than I expected. I've made it through.

It's not been easy financially for me. When they messed with my clearance, I haven't gotten the job since. I've been out of work since August of last year. So that's not been fun. Was there a reason why they said they messed with your clearance? No, they just made it sound like oh, it's just an administrative error Sorry, yeah, we still have your clearance here and everybody that wants to employ me. I've had very quite a few Employers want to hire me and they say yeah, we can see your clearance over here. It looks like DoD Is trying to reactivate it, but month by month by month, it just sits there.

And they won't pass it to the employer. Somebody is just sitting there going, oh, another request for Jason. Goodbye, delete. That's what's happening. Because you've stepped down a line. That's what it feels like to me. OK.

Logan, have you experienced the same kind of situation? No. No? He's in a feels like to me. Logan, have you experienced the same kind of situation? No. No? He's in a different class than me. He's an official whistleblower. Me, I just stepped forward to say that I don't think we need the government to do this. I think we as the public need to do this.

And I created an app to do that. I was hoping that... What is your app? My app is called FINA. It's an app to report UAP paranormal encrypted like events and the idea is that we can get multiple people to see the same thing recorded and then look for the outliers and get people like Jacques Vallee and Dr. Eric Davis and how put offoff and others, the gray beards, to look at it and say, okay, here's what we can figure out, you know, Gary Nolan and all these people. Let's get them the information that they need. And then after we get them the information

they need, let's get it out to academia so we can have kind of like a more organized approach to finding out what's going on. I wanted people to to use my app on the drones, some people did, but not enough. And I had a little bit of a problem because when I put it out on Android there was only one other app that was close to it that was in the same name. Go back there, there's like almost ten apps with the same name so people didn't know what was going on. They're getting confused. But anyway to answer your question about the support, yes, I do get a lot of support. There's people like, you know, Steven Diener, there's Digby Forno and Tom Thompson, there's

UFO Sarah that's on X. There's a ton of people that I can mention, let alone how much support James Fox is throwing at me. That's what's getting me through this. How many different versions of these life forms have been discussed with you? On mission I can say three I know of, two mainly tall whites, grays, those are the main ones. Are the tall whites like this one that you encountered the one with the big eyes? Yes. Yes like that that wasn't that tall you said, right? but apparently according have you seen the Video for mr. Hall the guy that was supposed to be the weatherman and actually interfaced with no whites No, yeah, I totally believe I've seen too much. But anyway, he says

I could verify the fact that what he said about his position there as a weatherman that he could walk around anywhere He wanted to because that's what the base commander told me when I got my orientation drive through on On dry dreamland and he mentioned the weather site and that that person does not can walk wherever they want to and what was What what did they report? Well, just what mr. Hall? Yeah. Yeah He says that the tall whites go through a growth cycle where they're kind of normal height but they're very long-lived. They live like 800 years or more. But when they start getting older, then they get very tall, like seven, eight foot tall,

and then they begin to, you know, their bodies begin to not function properly and they die, kind of like somebody who has a growth problem. Oh, like a giant. Exactly. that not function properly and they die. Kind of like somebody who has a growth problem. Oh, like a giant. Exactly, yeah. And their vital organs just can't pump enough anymore. Kind of like large dogs that die early because of that heart problem.

Right, right. So the guy that I saw was probably a young person, probably only like 70 years old or something like that, which is kind of an adolescent to them or a young adult. Oh, okay, so And this was explained to him through some sort of telepathy Well, he would actually as the weather if you listen to that video, I really encourage you to do that. But mr. Hall also published some books on it, but

He claims that what he was there at this one place that you know I can verify it's there, that on the other side of that mountain or that hillside, that's where the trail goes off into where the tall whites are apparently have been given an annex of land to live, where they don't get bothered. I mean, it's a part of the military complex. Is that on Google Earth? There is parts of it, yeah.

Can we like look where the tall whites live? I tried to, yeah, I'd have to get my laptop out, but yeah. What does it look like? It does look like there's some circular patterns. It does look like there's some possibility that there are some doors inside the mountain that looks like it's camouflaged to look like it's part of the mountainside.

So the idea is that that's a base for them when they visit us? Yeah, because apparently according to Mr. Hall they come here for a five-year stint I guess and they have to refuel and then they have another ship come through and the other ones refueled and it takes off. So they're closer in the evolutionary chain to us than some of the other ones? Yeah, that's my assumption. Yeah some of the other ones. Is that a safe assumption? Yeah. Now, the other third type that got mentioned on mission was reptilians. But every time that they were mentioned, it was really quickly hushed up by whoever else

was on the other end of the line. Shut up, don't say that, is what they were doing. They don't want to talk about the reptilian presence. They don't want to talk about the reptilian presence at all. They would talk about the tall whites and the greys being in the lab of the armaments. You know, not a lot, but some. But these reptilians, it was like nobody wanted to talk about it. Was there any sort of an explanation that anybody give you of why they don't want to

talk about it? No. The only time I got any inkling was that when I was out of the program and other people started to talk to me about all the different you know things they're like well how many races are there but um some people talked about the reptilians they're like do you realize that these are evil I had to listen to that and and the thing is we don't know if it's because of their appearance you know you would assume something that's reptilian is maybe a demon or whatever and a Nordic

where the blonde hair blue-eyed is considered like an angel or is something that's reptilian is maybe a demon or whatever, and a Nordic, where the blonde hair, blue-eyed, is considered like an angel, or is it, that's just our perception. But that's what you hear. Well, every reptile here is evil. Right? You ever seen a Komodo dragon eat a goat? It's horrific.

They're fucking monsters. Every single reptile is a monster. Yeah, that's here There's not one cuddly reptile you can hang out with cuddles with you He's it brings you your newspaper in the morning Oh, I thought that was funny because the lady's like my snakes sleeps with me every night and the guy says no It's laying next to you because it's sizing you up for eventually Yeah, it's gonna eat you like one day. It's gonna eat you have a monster that you feed as long as you keep when it's gonna eat you. I was like, oh crap. One day it's gonna eat you. You have a monster that you feed. And as long as you keep feeding, it won't eat you.

Yeah, people with like pythons for pestilence. Well, to give it some credibility, I did do some research after that person talked to me. Because I did see that there is a reptilian race that is very maligned like that. And they even have, according to what I read, this one race has a penchant for blood for some reason.

It's like a shark frenzy with them. They have a real experience for them. Yeah, a reptilian race that does that. It just makes you wonder about human history, about the stories of demons and angels. And this is what Tucker Carlson believes that that they've always been here, and that this idea that they're coming from another planet is not that simple. That it's more complicated. And he thinks that it's the demons and the angels from the Bible. Yeah.

So, they could be seen that way, but here's something that someone, we were just talking and throwing ideas at each other. He said if humans have actually been on the earth like say this long, right? All right When the dinosaurs were here they were like, yeah this long So is it possible though some of them could have evolved to a certain point know that something bad is gonna happen They're so advanced they go off world and then they come back and go hey what happened here? you know, or is there a place where the the they come back and go, hey, what happened here? Or is there a place where the Yucatan impact never happens? And so those dinosaurs eventually evolved to

become super intelligent. Yes, because remember back in the day there used to be an Omni magazine? All right, one of those hypotheses was if mammals like us hadn't shown up, what would we have looked like? And it shows a lizard walking upright and doing everyday things that... But wouldn't you think that it would have done that already? Like, they were around for like 100 million years, 200 million years. Yes. Like in that time period, they didn't evolve at all. Those fuckers, they just kept eating each other in the same way.

That's the assumption. Right. Now we're going back and looking at all kinds of different things. Like they said that maybe it wasn't the asteroid that took out the dinosaurs. Maybe it was a combination of things. Like there was some kind of mutation, something that they drank in the water and it's all at the same time, maybe the asteroid was the catalyst to start it. And then all these other things that happened after, you know, the fireball, all the other stuff. But if there was a group that was so advanced that they could sit

there and go, that's an asteroid, it's going to kick our butt. We better get off world. Or let's go under, you know, because there's some legit looking things that can go underwater and do their thing. Because I heard a story. Oh, I know. Anyway, go ahead, you heard a story? I just heard a story that someone just said, imagine this. The aliens are coming down,

there's another society here that lives on the ground, highly advanced. And they like to keep things the way they are, so they're going to direct all their energy to make sure that the alien the NHI That we're seeing are paying attention to us and not them and I was like Yeah, but see for me The way I look at all this reptilian presence is just like I've read in the Bible, you know that

For some reason I feel like this whole experience I've had in my life actually increased my faith in the Bible and God. Because even in the Bible it mentions the serpents and that Lucifer being the head of that genre or species did cause the fall of mankind and all this other good stuff. So to me I feel like I just got experienced with the reality of the fact that these things exist and even though they try to keep it all hidden that I got exposed to the program where I could see some of it. And I think that there's some credence also to that side of it as well. So to give credence to the whole thing is just to say that

I that's what I believe but at the same time it wasn't there. This Eben thing of it as well. So to give credence to the whole thing is just to say that I that's what I believe but at the same time it wasn't there. This Eben thing that you talked about initially, this creature, what did that thing look like? They didn't really describe the Eben. They didn't? Nope, they just said that it was just like them reporting on something for that day. So it was kind of like a daily thing with them. So they had already described it, you just weren't privy to it, and so they were just going on the assumption that everybody who's talking about it knows. Yeah, it's kind of like, you know, somebody asked me what you look like today. You know,

after the first time they asked me, they're never going to ask me about that again. So it was like, it was just not a topic. Got it. So this E-Bin, was it here against its will? Was it here to interact with us to it sounded like it was imprisoned it sounded like an interrogation result is what it sounded like if you hear any of the stories they make it sound like um he was one of the survivors and he got stuck here and he started working with us and eventually he died in the eventually died natural causes but it's all speculation because we're in, you know, we're hearing all this stuff, right? We don't have any way to verify and how many other stories that are similar to that like the interactions and a thing being here with us

Have you heard? There's another one that actually escaped from captivity, you know He actually convinced his interpreter or his interrogator to help him escape because the program was trying to get him to open a portal for them and they wanted to control of it. And the guy eventually, the interrogator actually pushed him into the portal and had surreptitiously given him back to his own home world and it ended that guy's career probably. A portal? Yeah. And what kind of portal are we talking about? You're talking like it's kind of like a way of opening a wormhole that you can

control. And did they say where this thing was accomplished and how? I think it was also in reticuli. I think it was another being from the reticuli system. Right, but the portal. Where is this portal? How is it accomplished? The portal, I thought, I was trying to think where was that call from and to, because you always get the originating location,

but you're always trying to figure out who the distant end is. I'm trying to think all the parameters because you have to write down the phone number and every stuff sometimes. It sounded like it might have been on the Pacific Northwest or the West Coast area is where this was taking place. And did they say how the portal was made was this made by them? They had recovered parts of one and they were trying to complete it and they were trying to get this being to help them complete the The portal so they could use for their like a stargate. Yeah, like a real stargate, correct

Yeah, remember what I was telling you that story about you know, let's go get Jimmy. Yeah Remember what I was telling you that story about, you know, let's go get Jimmy? The rumor that I heard surrounding this was that he convinced his interpreter that if he didn't get back and if he didn't get home, really bad things were going to happen. And that guy just kind of felt like, you know, hey, I got kids and whatever. Right. I don't want society to destroy violence. Plus he had some compassion for him. He's been working with him for a while. Yeah. So when he got the chance, he was just like, you know, get him in there. I can't remember all the things. I think they had to keep this entity tied to a chair or

something, so he couldn't do anything. And that's why he needed the help of the guy that was the interpreter. He had to push him into the portal on the chair that he was tied to. So the rumors I heard, I didn't hear the portal part. I just heard that he somehow he was able to get him outside and just as he got him outside they just showed up above and did a snatch and grab and he was gone and next thing you know he's out there. So there's different versions of the story. Right, there's different versions. I'm just telling you that's the only other one I've heard that you're mentioning that you wanted me to describe that. Was there any other entities that we had captured and had something similar? That's the only other story I've heard.

Do you know the Richard Nixon story? Yeah, where he went with Jackie Gleason. Yeah. Do you think that's bullshit? Actually, not for that time frame. No, I could see Jackie Gleason and Richard Nixon Soaking some suds down and that dad I definitely could say and also Jackie Gleason did become obsessed with UFOs afterwards and even had a house built the shape of a UFO Yeah, it's a wild looking house. That was apparently for sale recently. Yes, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It wasn't in Palisades, was it? It was in, no, no, it was in upstate New York.

It did look like, it's a very bizarre looking house. Like you see, you're like, why would Jackie Gleason build a, wanna see it? Pull it up, Jimmy. It'd be cool. You look at it, you're like, why would Jackie Gleason build a house like this?

But then you hear that story, you go, well maybe that's why he did it, maybe. Because the word was that he had become obsessed with UFOs at one point in His life and this story came out. I think I was told by his wife. Oh, yeah This was Jack's house Which is so weird. Yeah spaceship like house very strange Very fucking strange for someone to do something like that. Yeah, I would have to believe they had something profound or they were me

Fucking house. I love that house. I Kind of like those two it's like when I'm down at Navarre Beach where I have a home down there in Florida But there's a UFO house down there. Oh really? Yeah, and it looks just like a UFO They think there's a UFO house in California somewhere. I think there's a UFO house down there. Oh really yeah, and it looks just like a UFO They think there's a UFO house in California somewhere. I think there's one in the hills above Studio City I Think there's one it's like a famous UFO house that I think they filmed things there I think it's like on stilts, and it looks like a UFO. Mm-hmm I mean people are always gonna want things that look like that

It doesn't necessarily mean that the Jackie Gleason. Yeah that one that's in the Hollywood Hills called the chemosphere Yeah, that's pretty cool fucking dope But I'd be terrified living in California with the earthquakes and it's a stupid place to live yeah Yeah, you wouldn't want as your main house That's a house you visit every now and then when you want to get drunk. Let's get drunk at the UFO house. Have a party. Have a little cocktail party at the UFO house. There you go. That's exactly how I treat it. Yeah, it's like fun. Yeah. But so the grays, the tall whites, the reptilians, but then

there's the mantis too, right? Right. And those are things honestly I've had, we've only discussed a part of my life. I've had experiences all the way from three years old on, and even after I was out of the program and I was just working in Florida and I've seen the delta or triangular craft like three times, and one of those times was with my daughter when we were coming back from her gymnastics class. Pretty, well just before I retired. What did that look like? It was like the size of a three story home,

but it was, you know, pointed. And on the top it was kind of angular, kind of like what you see the F-117 look like where it's angular it kind of looked like that it had pale grayish white lights on the underside on the cardinal corners and then in the back there was a flat panel that looked like a grill where there was a light that there's like these stack of straight-up lights like fluorescent lights are that would go to the right and then to the left and

didn't make noise zero noise zero noise and they're just flying through the air yep fast slow it was going fairly slow and then when it banked it turned and then that's when it sped up a little bit and then I lost it in the trees. Then I saw it two other times. One time was going to work and the other time was in 2022 when I reached out to some of the program folks that I used to know to tell them, hey there's a space on the top secret J-Wix computers that they're talking about UFOs. And I pointed them directly to this this delta-shaped craft because I was like I know what this is and I know what they know it is so I was trying to let them know that you need to look at this this imagery that we have our hands on

and ends up they ended up showing up with it and they showed me flying in flight they followed me home the next it and they showed me flying in flight they followed me home the next night and and it was right there above my car and I'm looking kind of like this is ours it's ours yeah it's a hybrid or it's ours I've always told people a hybrid meaning yeah well here it is the whole thing is that in the 90s I know they were on mission with me at Right Pat, and we saw a delta-shaped craft. It had different nacelles at the time, or engines at the time, that's what a nacelle is.

And then, so this new version looked very similar in shape, however it had these glowing orbs that looked like they were part of the propulsion system. So they had upgraded part of it, and now it looked fully fully functional and operational because back in the 90s it was not. So this is the other thing that I keep hearing is that we are in possession of technology that is many many years ahead of anything that anybody could anticipate. Correct. And when we get that I call that exotic material and or whatever you want to call it but we get our hands on that and about every you know Ten years we get a breakthrough on it because we do study it and sometimes somebody is smart enough to figure something out

And the next thing you know, we've got fiber optics. We've got cell phones We've got transistors now we're nanotech, you know, where'd all this stuff come from is some of this part of this NHI presence and that they've taken a patent that was developed inside the program and now these people from Lockheed and Northrop are patenting this stuff and then making lots of money on the outside. Other than the the beings that we described are there other ones that people have talked about? Yes I've actually like I said as a young adult I probably encountered more of a spiritual sense,

but they were Nordic looking. Platinum hair kind of a look, blue eyes. Like the tall whites are different? No, different. How many documented different species have you heard of? If I'm talking about my mission days, it's only that handful. And then if you're talking about other things that I've had other people tell me about, I think I've

heard enough from enough people that I trust that I think our concept of life in this universe is totally off. I think there are literally trillions of other life forms. And anything you can imagine is probably true. That's an interesting thing because I always, one of the things that I wondered when we used to talk in the task force was if this is the, you know, we're the alpha species here on Earth. So what if what we're seeing is the alpha species from another planet. Think about what other critters and other things are running around. And maybe if we see something wild and crazy over here, what if it's somebody, you know,

who's got a dog like Psycho? You know, all of a sudden, you know, something goes, you're like, what was that? You know, we just don't know. So the, you know, we can speculate and everything and build all these hypotheses up, but we're constantly looking to add to what we think is out there so we can figure out going, here's what we figured out, here's what we haven't. Now is the conventional explanation that these things are from other planets or is there speculation that they're interdimensional? Is there speculation that they live in the water?

Yes. All of that all that all the Yes, I would say that the way they appear and disappear is interdimensionalism that and I've had other friends that have had encounters that have talked to me that they could see a larger craft and then it turned and all of a sudden there is a door opening and a creature coming out and Yet this other part of the craft seemed to be like a long way off So it's like interdimensionally large. However, you know when it turns it's not like our four-dimensional world I've heard of a craft that you go inside of it and it looks like a couple hundred feet on the outside you go inside of

Yes, exactly football field. Yeah, Dr. Udstow. Because it's going into this other dimension and there's actually more space to that. Yes, and that's what this guy was describing. So we've all heard that too. The other thing too about the dimensional thing, because of the speeds that they're moving at, it could be that they're moving so fast it looks like they slipped into a dimension, because sometimes you'll see these things go off into the sky and then do some weird whatever and then they're gone. And then other times what you're seeing is this thing is moving slowly and then all of a sudden it's gone. And you're like, did it just slip into another dimension or is

that they're... Is the speed so fast that you can't track it with your eye? I? Have heard yes, I've heard people tell me that they were seeing some of these things moving at 16,000 miles per hour plus and we're still accelerating I've never been able to verify that obviously but these are some people that seem to know what they're talking about, and, you know, they just kind of come forward. I would just have – when I was on the task force, I would just get a phone call and just say, hey, are you Mr. Logan?

Oh, yeah. They're like, check your email in about five minutes. Or, you know, hey, there's something I want to tell you. And I have no way of verifying it. But the idea would be to put it in a little box somewhere to say, hey, this is an unknown. And maybe someone like Jason would come along and verify what this guy just told me or verify what I just saw in a video that maybe he can corroborate on. We would look at primarily for the task force, we were looking at the

safety of the pilots because they were having so many problems and they kept filling out all those safety reports, you know. So we're like, and I remember asking the task force director, Jay Stratton, I was like, what about all the commercial stuff that's going on? And he says, I want to incorporate that, but I can't because with their stuff, we don't have a good chain of custody on what's happening. And if someone's manipulating the data with the stuff that's coming directly from the pilots, we can.

So I was always looking at what the pilots told me they saw. And then me and several others in and outside of the task force were looking Through the commercial stuff to see if we could find the same exact thing because that's how I I when I first got it pulled into the task force it was I talked about my app and I was gonna do this just to figure out just something for a hobby when I get older you know when I grow up. And then Lou Elizondo came out with Leslie Keene and their story. And I went and found Lou and I said, if you're serious about what you're talking

about, stop by my office, cause I just wanted to see if he could do it. And he showed up with the gang and they presented their story about the pilots and everything. And we were like, okay. And I said, well, what about this weird thing over here? And they're like, how do you know about that? And I was like, I got friends in low places, kind of like you. You know?

And they looked at me and they said, don't worry. That one's, we've been told that something mundane is nothing important and I was like, ah I beg to differ and I was able to show them in a video of the same thing seeing somewhere in the in the world through civilian stuff and I remember when they were leaving after they heard everything and all of a sudden Lou just turns back around and goes, you're in. And I was like, in what? And he goes, you'll see. And next thing you know, I was in the task force. So, and for me, I was like, oh, my life just came full

circle. I saw some things and now I'm, I'm actually going to investigate these things. And so that's how I kind of pressed ahead. And then just to add on top of that, remember I said when Jason showed up, I called David Grush, right? But the funny thing was I hadn't even been in the task force that long and I was trying to look at things. All of a sudden I get a phone call

and I'm like, yeah, how can I help you? And he goes, my name is David Grosh. Are you serious about all this stuff you're tracking? And I go, yeah. He goes, I want in. And I was like, huh? And he goes, I think I have something that can help with you guys.

And I was like, well, I'm not in charge of this. I gotta introduce you to Stratton and company. And so I introduced him, and every now and then, I would say hi to him. And we'd talk, and he'd call me on the phone. But who else? I mean, I'm going to Stratton. I'm going to all the people in the task force.

And he pops up, and I'm like, oh my god. What do you do with that? I don't have the resources. I didn't get invited like he did Yeah, I didn't have the resources to check out everything that he did one of the things that we keep hearing Christopher Mellon's talked about this many people talked about this is there is evidence that's been classified That is high resolution video and photographs that are very Distinct very different than some of the blurry stuff that we've seen.

Have you guys seen any of that? Yes. You have. Can you talk about it? Nope. All I can say is there's some really, really good, clear, high-def stuff out there that... Can't explain. You can't explain. You're just sitting there going.

We went through the whole rigmarole on these objects. You had people on one side of the fence, people on the other side of the fence, people in the middle of it all, and nobody could draw a conclusion. The first thing we're trying to do is go, okay, could that be Russia? Could that China okay who else is there and you go through your whole list then you once you put that off to the side you go through now what are we observing and some of the things you know like Lou said the five observables plus the six which is you know the psychological effect on that but you're kind of going through those looking for all those

they're not always there yeah but they're super clear and some of them you're like how I mean you look at it you just keep saying how can that be? Yeah because you've got also you got to understand that these are these are professionals. We had imagery analysts go through looking for false positive like camera artifacts that look like something they're not. They can do AI analysis of images now. They're pretty accurate. Exactly, and we had a whole database of all these false positives to go through and it wasn't matching any of that.

We were going through the imagery analysis of the video, looking for flaws like artifacts, couldn't find anything about that. And you're talking about a high resolution video. Yeah. Like it's much clearer than the stuff we're seeing. Exactly, yeah. And what's the resistance to that stuff getting out there to the general

public? It's just classification. It could be where it's at, those type things. It could be anything. Because one of the things that I think the community really gets hung up on when it comes to the intel community is that the classification is one thing, but when you don't know if something is a threat, you automatically assign a value to that as being credible or not credible. And right now they can't draw a conclusion, therefore they don't want to declassify it, therefore it will not be divulged in public because of those reasons. I was telling him in my first thing as an Intel analyst to go friend or foe. And then

the next thing I'm trying to do is break down all the characteristics and we would sit there and you're looking. When I first joined the task force, I remember there was a group that I used to walk in their office because they're smarter than me. So I want to make sure I'm getting the best input. And the first couple of times I showed up, everybody pulled out the aluminum hats, they started playing the X-Files music, and I'm like, okay guys, but what about this? And I throw it out there and they're like,

oh yeah, what is that? After about the fourth or fifth visit, no more music, no more, I come in, everybody's already hunched over what I've already sent them, they're like, yeah, what is that? Because we would, J. Stratton asked us to, he said, lean forward and get out there and use an all-source approach to looking and

gathering all the information on what we can find. So I would capture, like, I'd call up a drone guy and say, I need you to come to my office, take a look at this. And he would look at it and he was like, holy crap, how big is that? What? How? And I was like, yeah, I need answers. Can you take a look? And he would, Logan, I'll get back to you.

A couple weeks later, he's like, dude, I got nothing. And then, you know, we would have an imagery guy look at it and it You know, sometimes they could sit there and say do that's this if you had one Piece of footage or image to release would there be one that really stands out? Like if you said if they said look you could release this one just one of these Classified high-resolution videos is there one that really stands out as being unique It's a group for me. Can you describe any of it? I think Lou Elizondo described one. There's the story that he talks about, I think Commander Fravor discusses about the torpedo. Do

you remember that one? The story is that they were launching torpedoes and you know they blew the bowels on the torpedo the torpedo came up to the top and they the divers came to hook the torpedo and just as they were about to to hook it something very large like an, came up underneath them. So I get this weird call, and you have to play devil's advocate, because when you're trying to tell guys that they were the observer, and you're trying to say, hey, well, you know, it could have been this, some of these guys get downright angry. They're pissed, because you're questioning their ability to discern what's going on. They were there

You weren't you know so you have to something life-changing right so you have to be careful because after a while Nobody will want to talk to you again because I would Logan's an asshole because he you know right so you're very careful So this guy just sends me this thing And I'm looking at it, and I just maybe a couple weeks before I'd heard this story with Fravor and Elizondo so I'm like What is this and there was this all I can say was there was something Very very very large

Moving under the water, but not not too far that you can't see it the water but not not too far that you can't see it but it's moving under the water and it's passing objects that I know are really large and this thing is bigger than them right and I'm sitting there going well I think they mentioned one of them and that was the oil tanker one yes yeah that one confused the hell out of me and there were people saying it was just a shadow. That's the one that was going 500 knots. Yeah, I think so. It was going pretty quick, yeah. But some people were saying,

oh, it's just some kind of a round object. The sun is just making a large. The shadow of the moon going across the face of the Earth. Somebody did another analysis and they looked at the wave tops and they're like, this is not a shadow, otherwise we show up on the wave tops. This is under the surface.

And this thing. And it's disturbing the water underneath it. This thing made this oil rig out in the ocean look adorbed it. I mean this was like three or four times bigger. So the speculation is that they're hiding in plain sight in the water or is the speculation that there's always been a civilization down there? I'd say in my opinion, yes, no in my opinion I would say that they have been here a very long time and that underneath the ocean and underneath the ground are two of the best places to stay hidden and out of the way of prying eyes. You go out in the boonies

somewhere or you go like there's a whole bunch of activity going around around Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico? Yeah there's a whole bunch of activity going around around Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico? Yeah, there's a whole bunch of activity that is going on, you know, where the Nemitz incident happened, all right. So there's things that we want to verify because you hear stories about things like you've heard of the Baltic anomaly. All right. So the first thing you want to know is, well, first of all, is it actually there? Once you verify that it's there, you want to know is, well first of all is it actually there? Once you verify that it's there, you want to know what's its composition. What's its composition? All those things. There's another thing on there, you can look it up right now, it's called the Cuban Atlantis. It's supposed to be 13

nautical miles west of Cuba, all right? And it looks like there's triangles and everything else there. And I'm like, from the moment that thing came out I've never heard anybody else say we've been there we've checked it out we verified it it's there let's send a dive team down the thing on the right there you know yeah that's under the water yeah that's supposedly 13 miles off the coast of Cuba well that's what we know. Yeah, we want to verify You know, yeah, whatever that is. Yeah, where's the National Geographic documentary on that? Is that wait a minute? Is that for real? Just I never seen that before all the other ones

I'm thinking are fake but this one up top right there where the thing is click on that Jamie. Yeah ancient origins Is it a crackpot site? No, it just doesn't give the vibes of a place to start looking for relevant information. Right. That's a good way to put it, Jamie. There's no vibe. So supposedly what was happening... Bad vibes, man. There was some people doing something, coming across the water, and they saw it.

So could it be that the Caribbean... We analyzed this one. Yeah, the Caribbean's hot Wow, and there's something out there You know Yeah, it's very weird Even even this one we've we've looked at it. We argued over this for months. Yes, this thing supposedly going it's not going that fast Yes, it's it's a it's kind of quick like a like a leer jet would.

But it just looks remarkable. It just went right in the water. The two things that stick out about this. That's what's nuts, it goes in the water. It does. There's no rooster tail. It's going fast in the water. Yeah, there's no rooster tail that comes off it. The other thing is at one point near the end, it actually looks like it splits in two. There's like one's a holograph and one's... Right, and now there's some other imagery guy that's saying, oh, it didn't actually go in the water. It's just an artifact. Yeah, see it splits up?

Yeah, there you go. See, that's the part that you can't... And what are we seeing with the drones? Some of these are splitting, right? Yes. And these are the ones that I find very curious because those are the ones that get sent, and they're like, it's an orb,

but now there's three of them, you know do I explain that well listen I want thank you guys for having the courage to even talk about this because I know it brings with it a lot of ridicule and for people like me that have no idea what's going on it's very fascinating and you know a lot more than most well I still don't know anything though so that's not good yeah but I mean all I know is what people have told me so I don't know anything though, so that's not good Yeah, but I mean all I know is what people have told me so I don't know what's real and what's not real You know, but I appreciate you guys very much and thank you for being here If you got social media tell everybody where they can get a hold you I'm on X space mainly

Just my name Jason T. Sands is my moniker So Logan I am at phenom.earth. Just look it up and you'll see information about my app and a little bit about my background. Okay. And I've got a first-hand fund. I'm trying to get further whistleblowers to come forward as well. Okay. James Fox did ask me to pass you something.

He said if you could put out a shout out to anybody that has information on the Vargenia stuff because he's found some new information and he needs to start cooperating. Okay where they get a hold of James? James Fox director I think on Instagram. I believe so. And his x-space is also a good way. Okay all right beautiful well thank you gentlemen appreciate. Thanks for being here. It was very fun. Thank you Joe. Very good to meet you. Alright. Bye for now.