The Joe Rogan Experience - #2312 - Jeremy Renner

Episode Date: April 29, 2025

Jeremy Renner is an actor, musician, philanthropist, and author. His new book, "My Next Breath: A Memoir," is available now. https://www.instagram.com/jeremyrenner Get a free welcome kit with your first subscription of AG1 at drinkag1.com/joerogan Don’t miss out on all the action - Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up using dkng.co/rogan or with my promo code ROGAN. GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, [phone] or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT), or visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD). 21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). 1 per new customer. $5+ first-time bet req. Max. $200 issued as non-withdrawable Bonus Bets that expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: sportsbook.draftkings.com/promos. Ends 5/18/25 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Joe Rogan Experience. Trained by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. What's happening, man? What's going on? It's great to see you. Yeah, good to be seen. Boy, what a journey you've been on. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I just started listening to your audio book. It was giving me anxiety. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's been a... I started listening to your audio book. It was giving me anxiety. It gets better, right? It takes a minute, but there's a relief for the reader. Well, the relief is seeing you healthy, walking around. The relief is also, you kind of know the end of the story, right, before you go into it. So then you can really kind of dive into the actual

detailed narrative that I put out. Yeah. There's no other way to do it. But yeah, it's tough for a minute. It's like, wow, my sister took a while to read and anybody that was kind of involved in the incident takes a minute. It took me a long time to kind of get through it, right? It's anxious for me too.

So how long was the actual recovery? Because you don't even walk with a limp. Yeah, yeah, it's quite, there's a lot, some things are pretty miraculous, something can be explained and something and I tried to figure it out as I was writing the book, you know, a lot of people ask questions, I asked myself questions. Some things were on my own will, some things were of otherworldly of some sort. But yeah, I was given, you know, I was supposed to walk with a limp because pretty much a lot of titanium and then it was certainly not running and I'm doing far beyond all those things. Don't know exactly why I can pontificate on why, you know. What do you think of it? I think it's... will is a

really special thing and the love and fuel to fuel your will I had in spades. I feel like I could pretty much do anything if I set my mind to it. When it was my essential part of my life, my recovery, was a 24-hour day job. When typically I do many, many other things, right, as we all do in our lives, but when all my focus, like even parenting, was out the window until I can get better. So I had to do that first. So that being the central part of every thought, every fiber, every cell in my body was geared towards a one-way street recovery. Well, I'm getting fucking better. So I just got better. And there's no, what's the alternative? Wow. You know, I was, I was

brought back somehow, someway. And it would be a disservice to not do all the things I'm supposed to be doing and want to be doing. So it just took a lot of effort and it looked a lot of support. Heck, dude, I mean there's hundreds of people involved in helping me not die again. But then it was – but at the end of the day, the recovery is – you know, everybody has been injured in some sort of way. It's a lonely road.

It's only you. No matter how much help you have or PT you have, if your tendons go, whatever the heck happens, you still have to put in the work every day and endure the pain and manage the pain and mitigate it. It can be quite lonely, but I always found that my daughter and my family, as I see their faces, when I get better, I could stand up, let's say, or not pee in a jar. I could get in the wheelchair. Any sort of milestone, I'd see their faces get a little bit less horrified, even relieved,

even quite joyful even. So as much damage as I did to my family and their hearts, me getting better can relieve them of that burden. So it was an easy one-way road to recover. And that's why I recovered fast and I attribute it to my love for my family. Wow. So let's bring back to the day of the accident. When exactly was it? It was New Year's Day.

New Year's Day. New year's day, 2023. Yeah, and I host My family at my house up there like 25 people every post Christmas to New Year's all the time for it family friends Whoever just kind of come up and we can celebrate the holidays together go skiing all these type of things But we had a big kind of snowmageddon together go skiing all these type of things but we had a big kind of snow mageddon type snow event that you know shut down the mountain that I live on at the top of Lake Tahoe at about 8,000 feet elevation and we got just tons and tons of snow but it happens often maybe not that intense of a storm but so much so where we were cut off from anywhere else we're snowed in fine I'm prepared

for that stuff three Three days without power, prepared for it. It's fine. We can have fun. It's actually relief. All the cell phones go off. All the iPads go away, computers, and everybody's just playing card games with headlamps on. And I mean, it's a riot. So we had a good time. You know, the food supply was still good. But, you know, it's, you know, it's New Year's Day and we're getting a break in the weather. So I decided I needed to clear the roads and see come out for air essentially and in doing so that's when the accident sort of transpired. It's and it's not it's more of a routine type of thing to have a

half-mile long driveway up there and I have to maintain it myself so I have a snowcat and a bunch of other snow removal type equipment. There's a bunch of vehicles snowmobiles even things that got stuck in the driveway because it was a lot of extra snow and some of it was very light and then it got very icy and hard so you're sinking down like three or four feet into it and it was a hot mess so had to try to dig all that stuff out using the snowcat pulling this stuff out. This thing a snowcat to describe it in words is pretty difficult, but it's like a tank. It's probably, I don't know, 12 feet wide, the tracks on each side, so it spins like a tank, like a skid steer. There it is. Yeah, there we go. That's a small, tiny version of one.

But yeah, it's something kind of like a Star Wars, you know? But this minor metal track, it's more like that one right there. Oh, you got. Oh Yeah, that's it. That's exactly like the one I have So it's about like 16,000 pounds or so and it's very nimble on this Just to see it physically put it back up see it physically and to know that that's what ran over your leg Oh my whole body. Oh god. Yeah It was you see you have to step on the tracks, you see, to get into the cab to operate it. So stepping on the tracks is a normal thing to do. You just don't do it while the things, you're operating it, right? You're in the thing, you drive it, and it's just easy.

It's a thumb, go forward, reverse, and you're neutral, and that's it. It's really easy to operate. But it was just, the accident happened because you have to get in and out on the off on those tracks and I Hit the thumb thing and it threw me off and I was going towards my nephew so I had to jump back on and try to stop it from killing him because it was gonna crush him between the truck and That big blade that I have I see that thing. Yeah, it's a few thousand pounds that things gnarly but big blade that I have. You see that thing? Yeah. It's a few thousand pounds that thing. It's gnarly. So my instinct was to jump back on it and try to stop it. You know, obviously it didn't work out. And it got right over and there you go. How much of your body did it run over? The entire, all of it. Oh my God. Because I went, if the tracks were here to jump in the cab, I leaped left up and over to

try to grab onto it and got sucked under the whole thing so the whole length of it just kind of... So there's like a set of wheels that turn these tracks, you see? And there's like six wheels. So it undulates. So I felt all the undulate... The first one was the worst, like the pressure and skull crush and all that stuff. And then it releases because then the undulation of the tire and the track.

And you're awake for that. Just like by the sixth undulation, just like, all right, all right, just kind of finish already. And you're just like, it's like, you know, you're like you're drowning and being struck by lightning and bleeding out.

All the things all at once, man. It's like immense pressure and a movable object and you know my school kind of lost out but still survived and your skull yeah run over yeah yeah yeah it's like it looks like you know yeah it's everything it's like it's 38 broken bones and eyeballs out. Oh my God. And it's a Shout out to medical science. I know, right? And yeah, I mean, all the doctors were like, dude, I don't know how your eye's still operating,

you're still working, but I think because I was on ice, cause I did see it, I'm like, well, maybe I'm gonna put this eye on ice and just kind of rolled into it. I think I saw my eye with my other eye, right? And I'm like, let me be able to keep that thing because I'm on like an icy asphalt driveway that's off of my driveway, right? The top of the road.

So it wasn't really great for impact to get ran over. I wish I was on a snowpack. It would have been maybe a little bit easier. It would push me into snow, right? But it wasn't. So I just kind of rolled onto it just like maybe I could kind of put the eye on ice until I could figure out how to breathe

You know, I think sort of laugh at it because it's weird to sort of think about that, you know Wow So 38 bones, yeah, yeah Yeah, I was like the real a lot of ribs and all my spiral fractures and my legs all my joints were broken all my ankles my knees my None of my spine and I only got a laceration of my liver from like one of the ribs Breaking in a couple spots and I went down and kind of stabbed it But it didn't really mess it up too bad. So that's okay, but all my organs my brain. I

Don't think there's any brain damage I'll use an excuse later I guess you know yeah and my spine that that's the miracle it's like how did I break 14 ribs right and my crack my skull and every arm and leg and finger and thing but my spine was spared and all my organs were spared in my brain. It's like it's kind of almost no harm no foul at the end of the day even though there's you know probably 20% titanium in my body at this point. So how many pieces of titanium were in you? Well the guy that invented this procedure worked at the hospital in Reno because there's a lot of crushing injuries that happened.

So the ski resorts and mines that are in the area. So I got really lucky to get this doctor. But it took four doctors to get to this guy. So says my family. I was out in a coma. And once they found this guy, he was on vacation, the mayor of Reno actually called him and said, you got to get back and help my friend out. And so he rushed out and he's just like, this is what he does for a living. He's like, oh, this is easy. I can't wait to do this

for this guy. You know, so it relieved all my family, but there was such relief because they were like, oh, he's going to lose his eye when he cut off his leg. I mean, all this kind of tragic sort of prognosis, whatever you want to call it. Right. So this guy comes in, no, no, it's fine. We're gonna hammer this thing in, we're gonna do this, do his face plate, do this, we're gonna do this. And just lucky that the orbital bone that broke and the cheekbone that broke, they only wanted to do that because my face as an actor,

maybe you wanna save my cheekbone, I guess. Not that I cared about it, but. But yeah, he fixed up all my ribs, and they used like this mesh mesh and he has this sort of weird way to kind of handle. If you'd fix one or two of the ribs that are all broken, the rest will kind of fall into place. The body is pretty miraculous.

Just give it a little direction and then it heals on itself and it will grow the bone. So it's not as much titanium in my ribs as one might think for all those breaks. It's only You know, I mean it's it looks like rebar. Okay, you get a scan like that Yeah, a lot of my body's like do you have an x-ray? Yeah somewhere. Yeah. Yeah, so is it online anywhere? We can see it. I don't know. Yeah, I get a phone. I don't think so. I could I could ask my sister for she's got showing everybody It's it's She's been showing everybody that thing. It's pretty remedial looking. It looks like I had a hammer and a 2x4 and some nails. That's what it just looks like. Why is there a nail and two screws? It's it's it's carpentry 101 you know there's

nothing like you know I think the guy that I had like screws in my skull and my my jaw cuz that broke in three spots and the guy took it out with it it's something that he got from Home Depot it literally it's like some you know just it just took it out I'm like dude it's squeaking like it's in wood. You need to numb it or something? I almost knocked this guy out. It's just like, it's unbelievable. Unbelievable. And I was always kind of half in the bag mentally, just kind of, because it takes so much mental to deal with like pain management and it's emotionally exhausting to deal with like so many different things in your body so I'm always kind of half paying attention to things you know my it's a much sharper mentally now because I don't have to mitigate so much inflammation, pain, all the time.

So I can kind of be here and laugh with you. But back then when this guy was, I almost thought this guy was so hard, dude. But yeah, glad that was, I was really happy to, that was a great milestone for me to get these screws out of my skull. Jesus. But that was, that was worse than getting ran over by the snowcat, dude. Really? Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. In terms of pain or just discomfort? No, it wasn't so much the pain. It's the haunting images of feeling my gums wrap around this screw. And it's pulling out. It's a lot longer than I thought it was. And then there's three more to go.

It was more the visual is, in my mind, kind of what makes it terrible. You know, the visual, because I'm a pretty visual guy. So I don't think anything hurts me so much in a physical way. But the visual is a pretty haunting image. And the sounds, sounds dude it vibrates your skull as he's taking it out oh it's like this is what horror films are made of right this is like saw or something is that the only thing that they had to take out is the screws that were in your head or yeah yeah your body no no they

have to leave those in for the most part because why risk infection and open you up to? something but Yeah, so all that all the rest of stuff stays in until those screws come loose At some point they will they start backing out. Yeah. Yeah, you think you'd put in a locking screw, right? I've had friends that have had broken arms and starts poking out of the bone. Yeah, yeah. It's just doing now. And they have to get another operation and get it removed. Yeah.

Yeah. So how many different plates do you have? I think I got, there's only a couple in my face and they went in like underneath my cheek, a plate for my orbital socket and then for the cheekbone. They put I think a plate or two over there to hold that bone in place. Do you feel it? I feel the lack of feeling in it. It's still numbness to this whole side because they had

to cut all these nerve endings to get in through your mouth. So even the side of my face is a little slightly little little little numbish. And the rest of them do you feel like how much do you feel in all your different bones and joints and all the different things that got repaired? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, that's, there's lots of scar tissue to work through all the time. It's what's great is like it's not any one spot. It's like it moves around. Even if you're not injured, it's like if you just twist your leg wrong and then it goes

up into your hip and then it's in your shoulder, it moves around. Your body kind of moves it around. So you just kind of stay on top of it and there's always something to work through in your body. And it's just you know, look I already have to do it anyway I'm 54 and I'm gonna have to take take care of my health and I just have to make it a very central part of my life So and so now do you have full range of motion full mobility?

Everything is back to normal. Yeah, I don't know what normal is, you know I'm gonna be you know, I feel like I'm maybe 110% just because spiritually and mentally I'm so much better. I got so many gifts from dying coming back that yeah, I'm 150%. My body will always be, look, my body's aging, so I have to fight against age. Well recovery is age reversing. It's the same stuff that people are doing just to reverse age.

I just do it just because it's my recovery and I have to for the rest of my life, just to prevent inflammation and discomfort and swelling, things like that. So when you have so many broken bones and so many broken joints, what is the recovery like? How do they even get you moving again? Day by day.

Day by day. Yeah, as soon as I got home from the hospital, yeah, PT there and working to just move, keep things moving. You have to. Otherwise you lose it. You'll lock up or you lose it. Seeing you walk around today in the studio, I would have no idea. Yeah. You look totally normal. Yeah the studio, I would have no idea. Yeah.

You look totally normal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's great. It takes a lot of work. And it's still working. I was having to stretch in your studio. I have to move quite a bit so I don't lock up. After a good night's sleep, it's like, eh, you could be a little stiff in the morning.

And I have to do some stretches and things like that. But I think if I didn't get in the accident in 54, I'd probably have to do it anyway, right? So Feels good to have to be forced the stretching I think AG one has been a longtime partner of the show and I'm excited to share a great offer They have going on right now You can get a free month supply of AG1's Omega 3 supplement and a free bottle of D3K2 with your first subscription order. The Omega 3 soft gel supplement complements AG1, making it easy to get the fatty acids you need. While the D3K2 liquid drops can

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And how long does it take before you can sit up? I don't know. It moved pretty quick. Randomly with the punctured lung and all this broke, the shoulder, the collarbone dislocation, all this stuff, that healed pretty quickly. But that doesn't require gravity and force under your legs. Like your legs have to take, right? So those – that took a little bit longer.

The legs, both ankles, right? Those are under trauma and plates and those You know, this is all a pipe He's a rebar my my whole lower leg. So that took a little bit longer, but the ribs ironically It was only painful for I feel like a couple weeks I also had these like plastic suitcases for my lungs because they had a little bleed out and this Stuff was going in. Oh what goop was in that thing but I had to carry those things around for a while. Once I got rid of those, I was kind of sitting up a bit more and I felt good once I was kind of sitting up. But there's

still, as you can imagine, so much trauma, so many places. But I think the longest was really getting up to stand up, to walk, to get all your joints to work properly again, to relearn to walk, relearn to move, because you really kind of have to. A lot of atrophy, as you can imagine that happens. But I was standing up and moving around. I got into a chair probably by February after like three weeks.

Wow. And the more I can move the faster you heal you get more blood flow you're getting you're getting your body to work better. Help with my attitude and will to get out and sit up you know all the things each of these things are like milestones and I would just like yeah and then move forward to the next thing and set a goal for myself even if it was just like to sit up and like turn or I didn't have to set such big to reach too far to keep my confidence high. So because I keep reaching these goals and just kept going and going and going and I

find myself again, it's 24 hours a day. So what do I have to do today? Well, I don't even have to ask. It's going to get better. And you know, it just kept going. And whatever thing and there's so many things to attack to get better, it's like I never got bored. I always had all these bands and stuff.

I remember being in a wheelchair and I'd wrap it around like this desk, and I'd be, is it like a leg press? You know, all these interesting ways just like to try to strengthen my body and get better. Whatever wasn't, you know, anything that would work, I would do it. I'd say no to nothing, say yes to everything, and let's try it. Let's do it.

Took in everything. Took in everything. You know, they say that is one of the more difficult things with stroke victims is the will to do the exercises to force yourself to recover. Because so many people just they have never done that before, they've never pushed themselves before, they don't and there's this tendency to just kind of give up. Some people have. Yeah, yeah.

It's part of the reason why I wrote the book is maybe people – because it's a lonely place when people are struggling in recovery and when it's a lifetime recovery too, you know. I hope they can find something they can grab on to, like if this guy can overcome this, I can get out of my own way here and maybe not, maybe think of it a little differently. The only thing we have control of ever in life and perpetuity is our perspective. So you know, what's my, I could easily just go be victimized and you know, right, cry about it and I got my career is over and that it's not it's

not even part of the narrative part of it's not even in the conversation it's like I'm getting better every day for the rest of my life. That's it. Wow. There's only one way to go. What's the alternative Joe? Right, what is the alternative? I keep saying that to my what's the alternative? I'm not going to stumble around through life. I wasn't brought back here just to suffer. That's not happening. I'd say unplug the machine. I'm done. I'm out of here. It's way better being dead. You know what I mean? I'm not going to come back and just waddle and limp my way through life. It's not going to happen. What's crazy is if you didn't approach it like that,

you probably wouldn't be able to walk. Correct, correct. Yeah, because there have been a lot of people that have been gravely injured that never come back. Yeah, yeah, you have to push it, right? Anything that's in your life or excellence, you have to obsess at it and risk everything for it. You have to, or it's not gonna happen.

No one's gonna do it for you. But what else are you gonna do? Yeah. You know what I mean? Again, like I said, what's the alternative? Yeah, this sucks, but like, so does a cold plunge, and so does this, and so does that, and so does that. You gotta really test, we gotta test our bodies,

our limits, to really have real growth, and especially in recovery. You have to, what else are you gonna do, man? You gonna take pills? Right. That was to do, man? You're going to take pills? Right. That was, again, one of the harder things, worse than the accident as well, is getting off OxyContin. And I got off pretty quickly.

And that's gnarly stuff, man. I'm glad it was there for the pain for me, but I wanted to get off it as soon as possible because it's highly, highly addictive. And coming off that stuff was gnarly. It's so hard and you have a really strong will and some people don't. I know. They put all people on that stuff. That's crazy dude.

Yeah. It is really ironically I was supposed to be doing a movie about the Sacra family. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But it was supposed to happen like literally that April or just that spring. Obviously that got canceled because I had to take oxycontin to kind of get by. But then I had to get off that stuff real quick, you know.

It was really interesting too how people treated that drug, you know. Everyone was like monitoring, counting the pills. It was a half a thing or this or that. Everyone was on, everyone was like, it was monitoring, counting the pills, it was a half a thing, or this and that, everyone was on it, like, dude, what? You treat me like I'm some sort of drug addict, don't give me this stuff, I don't want it. Jesus Christ, it's terrible. But it's pretty powerful, powerful stuff.

And I don't ever blame sort of the drug, I just think sort of how maybe it's free to use, and it's even supported in school systems and you know they got that family kind of got away with a lot of stuff to promote that put it mildly yeah yeah yeah it's a whole new thing you've seen Peter Berg's thing on Netflix painkiller we've seen that it's a docu drama document oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah it's, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, knowing part and then double downing and selling it and getting it really out there. And promoting it as a thing that you could be on forever, which is just insane. So you're on it and how long did you have to be on it for?

I, again, always working to get off of it and I think maybe it was around if I got home on January 13th, Friday the 13th, and I think it was probably less than a month, probably like beginning of February because I had all my molars and stuff got pushed in so my mouth's a hot mess, my jaw's broken, but I'd have night terrors as you would being awake through that trauma. And I bit down and the tooth was just in a certain spot and just cracked my molar. And it goes down to the nerve and that. I'm like, oh, I feel that pain. But I'm on all this oxycontin.

I don't feel, hmm, maybe I don't need to be on that set. So I had to go get that emergency extraction and get a post put in and on my back mower. And I said, well, I'm going to I'll take it one more time just for the tooth pain or whatever even with the dentist gave me. I think I took the dentist stuff, whatever that was. And cold turkey off oxycodone and Gabby Penton. Oh, cold turkey. Yeah, I didn't know. You didn't know how hard it would be? No. Oh, turkey. Yeah, I didn't know Didn't know how hard it would be

I would just know Adam I don't really listen Don't listen to the doctors man You know, so yeah, so I started crying For about three and a half days straight Even during my PT. I'm just like not not that I'm sad, but like full crocodile tears, just tears, tears, 24 hours a day, right? Just going. I couldn't stop crying and I was shivering.

Trevor Burrus So this is all just withdrawal? David Schiff Withdrawal, yeah. I wasn't thinking anything other than like why am I crying? I didn't know it was withdrawal. Even – because my mind is not there. I'm in – my mind is in recovery and getting off this stuff and focusing on holding my body up. It takes just a lot of mental acuity to just exist, right? So I wasn't thinking that – yeah, of course.

I look back on it. I was like, yeah, of course I'm coming off the fucking arrow, I just think. So yeah. And then – so I call my sister and thing. I'm like, I don't know why I'm crying. I can't stop crying. I was like, well, let's call up these different doctors that we'd zoom call with when I was at home. And so we called up the pain management doctors. She's like, look, it's all in music. What are you doing? You got a taper off that like takes like two weeks at least. You can't just call Chuckie. Gabby, no wonder you're

feeling all cold and all this stuff because that's all nerve stuff. So I started feeling gravity. I started feeling temperature. I started feeling everything. It was like, whew, on fire, right? So. Why did you make the decision to go cold turkey?

Because I didn't want, I don't like the feeling of being on pain meds. I don't like, you know, I want to have my mind. I was always using humor to find my sobriety. If I could land a joke, that means I'm reading the room and I'm hitting the timing right, whatever it is. You know, right? So I wanted my, I needed my mind.

I needed my wit, I needed my will to recover. I needed sleep and I needed my brain. And the drugs kind of numb my brain, as they would, right, as they numb your whole body. So I just wanted off of them. And I don't like how I feel. You feel muddy. And I just didn't like the feeling. It came with a price, but I got the okay to take a little fiber of oxy to sleep on if

you needed to mitigate some pain just so I could sleep. I'm like, OK, maybe I'll do that if it happens. And I did once or twice or three times maybe after that moment. But I got through it and I got off it. But I got off it because I cracked that tooth and that I felt pain. That is like – that's not going to let me sleep at all. It's a heartbeat in my brain. My face is just like throbbing, right, as you would for anybody. So I said like, oh, that's then I don't need to take the pain

meds. So make those my excuse to get off the pain meds. Right. Because thankfully feeling pain and you're on the pain. Yeah, I would have been on that shit much longer if I didn't crack that tooth. Wow. Because I wouldn't have the will or say like, oh, let's get off this stuff. Right. But it took that. I'm like, OK, well, I don't need it. I had knee surgery in 93, and they gave me something. It was either Percocet or Vicodin. I don't know what it was. And I took it one time.

And I felt so bad. I felt so stupid. I remember being in my apartment in New York just feeling so dumb, just thinking I'd rather be in pain. And so one day, I took it one day, and I'm like that's it I'm done. Yeah. And then I sold it. I sold my pills to this guy Jeff at the pool hall. It was this dirt bag guy that I used to hang out with at the pool hall. He had a bandana and long hair, he was a hippie, he always sold drugs and I sold them to him. He's like, I'll take it, what do you got? Yeah, yeah, what do you got? And then I had surgery again.

I've had a bunch of different surgeries for jujitsu injuries, martial arts injuries. But the second time I had surgery on my knee, I had a knee reconstruction again on my other knee in 2003. I didn't dig anything. I'm just like, I don't want nothing. I'm just gonna just deal with it and it was okay. Yeah, maybe anti-inflammatory or something and it's... Yeah, I didn't even take that stuff because I don't think that's good for you either.

Yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, you're gonna be in pain no matter what. It's just gonna dull it a little bit. I'd rather feel it all just get cut. I agree, 100%. Acc going to dull it a little bit. I'd rather feel it all. I agree. I agree. Accustomed to it. 100%. Deal with it.

Yeah. That was back when I, even when I had my wisdom teeth pulled out when I was like 20 or something. That's pretty gnarly surgery, right? And they give you like a codeine or something. I just puked on that and said, no way. Took one pill and I never took Dentsil to anybody. Isn't it astonishing that some people like it?

Yeah, people party on it and they'll go drinking like to Viking on it. It's just the opposite for me. I just can't. It's just my body doesn't agree with it. Yeah, I just and I'm glad I don't I don't like it. I had a friend of mine who was a musician and he would write all his music on on vikings. I was like How do you do that man? Like I took it whatever it was that I took

I can't remember which one it was but I felt like a moron I just felt like I had like 20% of my brain Yeah, and it was just this dull like wet cotton stuffed in my head Yeah, but I mean, I guess maybe it's just like different biology, maybe different people react to it differently. For sure. Yeah, it wasn't for me. Yeah, I agree. So how long did it take for the withdrawal to subside? By the time I got to the the zoom with the pain management doctor, he said like, well, don't do that. You should taper off. Like, well, I'm already off it now.

I'm like, I've come off the crying train, especially because he also made sense of it for me. It's like day four by the time I talked to him. And it just helped me make sense of why I was feeling the way I was feeling, because it felt like a setback. Right. You know, because there are setbacks in recovery, but this felt like a real setback.

Like I couldn't grab of why. And I'm pretty in tune with my body and my emotions and my everything. And I just couldn't grab why I was, and it's so obvious. Yeah. But then, you know, I'm not the one really administering this stuff. My mom just gives me the pill and doing peptide injections for me and, you know, rebirthing me, you know, taking care of me. What peptides were you on? Oh man, if I look back, I don't know, I was getting three, three MLs, so three loads,

and they were all mixed up, so as you would – probably a lot of the same ones that I'm on now that I continue and I rotate in and out of different ones. PPC157, TB500. PPC157, TB500. Yeah, yeah. All those. Yeah, yeah. AOD and MODSY and I have to do a lot of blood work because my hemoglobin was at 2.

Yeah. That was what it was going back to work. Whoa. Back to Mayor Kingstown. Crazy. Yeah. It's like the blood of a dead man, essentially. I just got no energy.

So then I started really working with all my blood panels. Big, giant, wide 16-vial blood panels. And that started to be my new course of recovery, of a cellular way, in a blood way. And that's where I really started to get strong. I was moving around, I was mobile, all the bones were healed. By this time, it was like a year's gone by,

but now I started working on cellular and blood health. And that's when I got to like, my skin started to look great, because your blood tells you what your body's producing and not producing, right? So that was a great report card or barometer of where I was at, why I'm not, you know, where my mitochondrial levels are at, anything was that. So it was really, really great part of my recovery and that's what I'll continue to still continue to do today.

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What it did for me, it's not something, I don't think there's many things in my recovery that you do that feel good. It just doesn't make you feel as shitty. Right. It's like you're building a mountain one layer of pain at a time. Yeah. So, but hyperbaric is great. It helps with lactic acid when you're working out.

As you know, it's all the oxygen you put in your body is a great necessity. It's, again, those are the things that are even age-reversing. It's also disease-preventative. It's amazing, this thing. I got one that was you could sit in and do multiple things. I can't just sit there for an hour and a half in the chamber and I'll go crazy. I have a busy brain, you know? So I get a computer or whatever, email, whatever I can do to kind of continue to do it, to

make it a part of my life. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. And then I go into like a red light bed, a high-powered red light infrared bed, then it moves all that oxygen through my body even more so and gets deeper into the tissue. It's amazing. Yeah, I use both of those things. Yeah, those are huge parts of my life.

Yeah. But I would imagine for something like what you went through, it's imperative. Yeah, yeah, for tissue recovery and oh man, huge, huge, huge. Faster for repair. And so, from, so a year later, you're walking around. Yeah, I was walking by, my daughter's birthday was March 28th. So, I guess a few months later, I was walking, but it was assisted, very assisted week, walking with cane or a walker.

Trevor Burrus So that had to be amazing. David Kopel Yeah. Yeah. And then I was – by the summertime, I stopped doing recovery, the intense 24-hour day recovery. I would do like a 12-hour day recovery and then go walk in the sand in Lake Tahoe. Lake Tahoe is the world's biggest cold plunge. It's a freezing-ass lake. So I just go dip my legs in that lake,

walk in the sands, great for instability in your ankles, your joints, your hips, and I would just do that kind of stuff. Even ride a jet ski. I was riding a jet ski in June. Wow. Yeah, taking it easy, I'm not doing anything nice, but just like, just living life.

You know how good that is for your mental acuity, your spirit, your emotional body, and all that stuff. So I was out in the sunshine getting vitamin D, I was in nature, I was with friends, I could do life stuff. I'm back in life stuff. That's a great confidence builder. So I kept trying to do those things.

And then of course I have to go back into all the recovery stuff that I always do. Just happy I can do it. What does the cold water, and you know, that I always do, but I'm just happy I can do it. What does the cold water feel like with like, I mean you have a rod through your tibia. Yeah, the cold water is, that's not the issue, it's when it's cold weather. Yeah. Like, like anybody, it's, you're, you're stiffer, your blood slows and all that stuff, so it doesn't help us, I need circulation in my joints. Tendons don't get a lot of blood flow.

I really got to work at getting blood flow in these joints. Otherwise, they'll stiffen and I'm just slower going. Everything just feels a little bit more robotic. What did they have to do here? But I think that's – before injury, it's that for anybody, right? Also elevation. I mean, 8,000 feet elevation in Tahoe. So all these things aren't really kind of helping to my recovery, but my body will respond in those oxygen depleted

environments and all that stuff. So maybe it did help, maybe it didn't, I don't know. But I did most of my initial recovery in LA. And then when I could, I got out to Tahoe to be in my sort of happy place in nature. Did they have to reconstruct your knees? No, no, none of that. There was cracks in my ankles and my foot spun around a handful of times. There was spiral fracture in my leg.

So they had to hit a rod down into my knee and they had to screw it, screw it, with plates and all that stuff. So I didn't show I just move those things. So I don't know, there's not, wasn't full like reconstruction, like people get a new knee or a new hip. It was just a lot of breaks.

My pelvic broke in three spots, my hips, you know, but you don't fix that. Even said, you broke your asshole. I'm like, is that what you say as a doctor? Is that how you say it? Come on. I think there's another word for it. Is that how you say it? Come on. That's hilarious. I think there's another word for it.

I think he was trying to make me laugh, and I did. And then he makes you laugh. He's like, you broke everything, Jeremy. You even broke your ass. I'm like, all right. That's great. Wow. And so you've gone through the 12-hour, now you're in like this 12-hour day of recovery.

Yeah. At summertime, yeah. So I got to do like just life stuff. And that was really my first shot at allowing myself to think that there's a future and I'm not going to live a life of full-time recovery for the rest of my life. I say, oh, I can actually go do some other things that I enjoy doing with people in kind of a normal way. So I was without a cane, without anything by the time by June and summer came around.

So I'm moving around. That's pretty nice. I'm moving around with inflammation and getting downstairs very slowly. But as you would, as long as you're patient, as I was, as aggressive I was with my recovery, I allowed patients to also live within that aggressive attack on each joint or each inflammation or whatever it was, I do allow patients. Because I allow myself to push hard, hard, hard, hard, I listen to my body, body says, fuck off. I'm like, all right, I'll chill out for a second. And then, you

know, keep going. So but I got to live life. And that was so, so rewarding to my spirit and my my my confidence, which you know, you need in that in that kind of those kind of dire times and keep going. And then like I I said when we got to back getting back to work because I got so ready. Maybe I'm down to like four hours a day of recovery by the end of that first year. I'm like I'm going back to work. I need to get back out into the world and use life as my recovery and still only spend four hours a day on hyperbaric chamber, red light, whatever the heck I could do to, I mix it all up, it's a bunch of different stuff.

A lot of heat, a lot of vibration, power plate stuff. That was really great for numbing the nerve endings, my back of my knees, back of my ankles, that kind of stuff. I don't know if you ever used that stuff for. No, like what are you doing? I used to have this thing, god what was it called? It was a thing you stand on,

it's like it would shake you with different vibrations. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. With like, do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do So it's not quite so sensitive. I don't know if it floods the inner venting with blood or whatever the heck it does, but it just kind of numbs it out and I can go to sleep on it. It's great. It's beautiful. I used to have one of those at my house in LA.

I don't even remember what it's called now. It was just some machine. It had a bunch of different programs. Yeah, yeah, it's power plate. It's probably a power plate. Well, power plate, I think, is the one that you work out on. You can. Yeah, yeah.

This one was a little different. This one was just, it would just shake you at a bunch of different frequencies. Oh, interesting. You would stand on it and it was supposed to just do a bunch of stuff for your hormones and endocrine system and all sorts of different stuff just by the vibration. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It helps me a lot. Interesting. For sure. And are you doing sauna and stuff like that as well? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah helps me a lot interesting for sure and Are you doing sauna and stuff like that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but I use I usually use just the red light bed Sweat like but it's shaped like a coffin. Yeah, like chanting bed one. No, it's just as effective I think as a you're going to the sauna

I just doesn't take so long to heat up or anything is getting that thing and cook You're going to the sauna. It doesn't take so long to heat up or anything. You just get in that thing and cook. It's amazing. And it's amazing that even like an LED light like that or infrared light could warm you up so much, but it's intense. I love it. And then after a while, do you start lifting weights?

Yeah, yeah. I started training as soon as I got the – when I started doing blood work because my hormone, my testosterone was at 200, my hemoglobin was at 2, everything was... Your body's just wrecked. Oh, wrecked. And I'm going back to work. So I had to attack why I was falling asleep during workouts that I'm trying to do or whatever.

I'm sorry, they only scheduled me maybe six hours a day on set because I fall asleep in the middle of a scene. Oh my God. They're like, who gonna wake that fucker up. Oh man so yeah so I had to really work on that and once I got what I think is really the testosterone once I got that level to like 700 800 constantly then I had more energy and that allowed me more energy in the gym and once I had that that got me more energy that that so just started feeding upon itself. I was doing blood panels every week

and I just saw progress, progress, progress. And then I just started lifting and I had so much energy and I felt better the more I lifted and moved and stretched. And it just kept compiling just like most things in life. And it got easier like most things with oxygen chamber., that's better when you can pile on it. Same with red light stuff. Nothing, no one time at anything is going to do anything, but if you do it often enough and make it a central part of your life, it's like, oh, I was on fire.

It's great. I started running. You can run now. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah. For distance? Yeah.

I mean, I don't know where I'm running to. I was never a distance guy. I was always a sprinter, right? I was a sprinter from high school and college. Yeah, so- Does it hurt when you run? It feels like if you're- if you've ever been in a car, you know, on the freeway and it has a misalignment or it's a little shaky. Yeah.

Yeah, or you got a flat tire. It feels like I got four flat tires when I'm running. It looks great. It looks like, oh, this guy's no problem with this guy. Just boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. And it feels like the wheels are going to fall off mentally or something. It just feels like it's because it's a lot of pressure

to put on all these joints, right? I haven't sprinted really much in a while. I haven't really worked on that. I've been working on other things, you know, blood and cells and that kind of stuff. So I mean sprinting is not, you know, what am I doing? What am I going to do? Sprint? 54, for God's sakes.

Maybe like for, you know, like because you do stunts in movies and maybe at some point I'll have to sprint, I don't know. Or maybe not, maybe just don't do that shit. You know? Yeah, well maybe you can though. I mean. Sure I can. I think you can.

I already have. I don't believe it. I just don't know if I want to make that a central part of the acting experience. Maybe I can. Well that would be an absolutely phenomenal Turnaround to go from where you were to going back to action films. Yeah. Yeah to go play Hawkeye or something Yeah, I'm saying yeah, I'd be a good identity. Yeah, that's that's tough. That would be a tough one That would that's I was in excellent shape for that one That would be a challenge. Yeah, I would imagine I

Don't know do I want to tax my body? I don't know. Probably should. Is it taxing your body or is it strengthening your body? Yeah I don't know. I don't know. Yeah I don't know. How many miles can you get on this stuff right? That titanium. I think it's forever. I think it's permanent. I mean everything you have just reinforces the recovery of the bones right right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you just have a plate there that just keeps the bones in order. Yep. And it's essentially...

All the titanium in my body is useless at this point. It did its job, and the bone's grown. So it just stays there now. Is there an argument that the titanium hinders you at all? Well, I mean, it is foreign metal in your body. Is there an argument that the titanium hinders you at all? Oh Well, I mean it is foreign in metal in your body You're not it's not rejecting it, but there is a point where it could you know just like allergies You know there's some you don't get allergies sometimes for 40 years in your life and also non allergic to down They could reject it who knows you never know

I'll cross that bridge. I'm worried about today. I'm here with you. I'll worry about that shit later. It's just so impressive Yeah, it really is amazing. Yeah, it's it. Yeah, cuz at any other time in history, you're dead. Yeah. Yeah any other time in Oh, yeah, 20 years ago your daughter. Yeah, you're a goner 20 years ago. It's insane. It's amazing Yeah, amazing. What goner 20 years ago. It's insane. Right? It's amazing. Yeah, amazing. What a what a great blessing to have All those people that even I did the the emts and all the people that were there Life-saving stuff that did all this stuff that they had to do man. There's so much You know and i'm really known in that community especially in the emts and all that sort of stuff I have a lot of firefighter friends and all that stuff. So it's just like a

You know, you're just getting a little extra juice and love from these people. You know, like I knew one of my best friends is a firefighter in that area, Jesse, and he's just retired. He got the phone call from his buddy who had to like stab my chest and release the pressure from the lung and da da da, like on the ice. I'm like, and he's the one that says, look, dude, Jesse, Jeremy is Jeremy, we did the best we could, dude. You want to get to the hospital? Wow. And that's like code for like, gone.

He might be gone. He's gone. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, but they're like, I talked to them all later. I saw every nurse. I saw every doctor. I went by every ENT, even the pilot that flew me up there.

And just had to give everyone the biggest squeeze and apologize if I was a pain in the ass or whatever it was, man. It's that – reminds me of just why I'm back anyway and what – the only thing that you take with you is love, man. That's it. Yeah. The beginning of the audio book is your daughter. Yeah.

Yeah. That was the one I had the hardest time with. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's... Can you imagine? Yeah, I can't imagine. You know?

Dude. Does this, I mean, it must forever change your perspective on life because you've crossed back. Yeah, yeah. Well, it just made it easier. on life because you've crossed back. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it just made it easier. It's ripped away all the white noise, things I gave credence to, things I gave value to,

are just fucking meaningless. Bullshit. Bullshit. All the bullshit means nothing. Bullshit is gone. Yeah. And I just don't. Sadly, I mean, spinning know, people and capitalism stuff

with things to say, I just don't, I just feel like I belong, but I do. I just, a lot of times I just don't feel like I fit into a certain, how things work or seem to work down here. Or yeah, I just don't do things I don't give give value to I only do things that are valuable in my life that's it that is it I do nothing else it is amazing how much time and energy people put into things that ultimately at the end of the life they're not valuable they don't mean

anything and they occupy most of your thinking that's right or even your time or like your career uh-huh right Yeah people do careers that they fucking hate Yeah, or they're in a marriage. He's fucking despised. It's not you know, all this stuff is too much time doing what right? Why why why? There's a fear because a fear get trapped and it's just get out and you know, they get too deep and buried into To some place that they get to paint themselves on corner, you know, it's quite sad. Yeah. You know?

It is sad, but it's also, I mean, there's an amazing example that you can shine to the rest of the world that maybe people don't have to go through what you went through to realize that most of what you're thinking about all day, especially if you're one of those people that's wrapped up in social media, most of the things you're thinking about all day are just nonsense.

Just total nonsense that's stealing your life. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, one of the reasons why I wrote the book is I hope there's things that I learned and the gifts that I received from passing and coming back and overcoming huge obstacles and a lot of people can identify with suffering and struggle. It doesn't have to be a physical struggle, but it's a certain way to think and perspective

to work your way through it because it is a lonely place. I think there's something beautiful about the narrative of an author to a reader or even just audio, which is even more intense because you get the 911 call and it's kind of dramatic in that sense. But like it's pretty intimate. And I think you can really move the needle for somebody. The more open and honest and vulnerable I am in sharing the narrative, the maybe more I have a chance at connecting

with the reader or listener. No doubt. You know? The thing is about when you're in the middle of a struggle, it never seems like you're going to get out of it. Yeah. When you're trapped, you feel it. And it's so difficult for people to trust the process or to trust that it will get better.

And this is unfortunately why a lot of people end their lives because they do not think it's going to get better. And this is unfortunately why a lot of people end their lives, because they do not think it's going to get better. And you hear it from so many people that almost took their life or failed when they tried to take their life, and now realize, oh my god, I was so wrong. It does get better. I am better.

Everything's better. And I just didn't see the light. I didn't see the light at the end of the tunnel. I thought there was just nothing but this feeling that I couldn't endure. Yeah. That hopelessness? Yeah.

That weighs heavy, doesn't it? Whew. Ooh. You can't afford that. You can't give that power. You can't give that power. No. You can't.

I think anybody can sink into that, right? Anybody can sink into that. Yeah. Anybody can sink into that. It? We're old. Yeah. Anybody can sink into that. It's just so hard for people that have never gone through something before. If your life has been really easy and then all of a sudden you're tasked with one of the most difficult burdens ever, overcoming the fear and the feeling of wanting to end

life because you can't take it. I've been there. Jesus. of wanting to end life because you can't take it. I've been there, I mean, Jesus. Look, I think people need to suffer. It is an actual requirement of life. And this is the fiber, the DNA of love. Real love and true love and perpetuity can't exist without suffering.

It's impossible. But you don't appreciate it? Yeah, you have to have suffering. And suffering doesn't have to be looked at in a negative thing. It could be looked at as a beautiful thing. It's where real love comes out of. All my suffering, there was real love in there. Everyone around me just in this recovery

or in a loss I may have had from an uncle or grandparent or whatever you know there's there's real love that comes in that suffering you know even though it can be a lonely experience I mean I look at it that way and not as a negative terrible thing because it's just temporary and it's not intuitive though what's that it's counterintuitive though. What's that? It's counterintuitive. In a negative term of it, right? But we all have to suffer, right?

I mean, it's part of the human experience, right? It's the Joe Rogan experience. I'm not suffering, I'm having a great time with you. But you know, I don't think people welcome that or allow that to happen in their lives and let it be okay that the suffering that we suffer like that It's a hard times are the building blocks to our to who we are. It builds resilience. Yeah builds care Yeah, yeah all those things. Yeah, I remember one time

I mean, this is a minor suffering in comparison But one time I went on this hunting trip on Prince of Wales Island, which rains like 350 days a year And so we were up there for a week just getting drenched and you know you're camping So you're in a tent and you think oh, well, I'll be dry in the tent and you're not dry in the tent There's no dry. That's no such thing as dry I remember I turned my headlamp on and the tent once cuz I had a pee and I was gonna step out of the tent to Go to the bathroom in the rain And when I pressed the headlamp inside my tent, all I saw inside the tent was water vapor.

It was just filled with moisture. There was just water, droplets, all flying around inside the tent. I'm like, oh my God, you're never gonna be dry. There's no dry. And it was just miserable, but fun. I was with good friends, we had a good time. Then I came back to LA a week later,

and I remember I called my friend Steve Rinella, I called because he's the one who took me on the trip, and I said, dude, it's sunny out, and I've never appreciated the sun like this before. I'm at a level of happiness that I don't think I've ever felt before. I was just sitting outside with my eyes closed, just taking the sun, it was wonderful.

LA's always sunny. You get so used to it. It's like you're a trust fund kid, like who can't appreciate money, because you've always had it, it doesn't mean anything to you, but now all of a sudden going, just being drenched for seven days and being in that sun, I was like, Because you've always had it doesn't mean anything to you. But now all of a sudden going just

Being drenched for seven days and being in that Sun. I was like, uh, and then it made me realize like oh you need to suffer You need to suffer. You're never gonna appreciate this life, right? And either you voluntarily suffer or you will suffer Involuntarily because life regular life will make you suffer. Yeah, very true. It seems sort of anti-human to want to do something to make yourself suffer, right? It doesn't seem very sort of characteristics of, you know, we always want to take the fastest route to get somewhere. Yeah. It's just innate in kind of human nature to do that, sadly. That leads to a life of complacency and mediocrity. Well, if you look at life today, and if you look at society today, we have unprecedented levels of depression and unprecedented levels of anxiety and unhappiness, yet it's probably

the safest time ever, and it's probably the easiest time ever. It's so easy that poor people are fat. That's how easy it is. That's never been the case. All throughout history, poor people were starving. And poor people are fat now. That's how easy it is to live, just to exist. So I mean, not saying that being poor is easy.

It's certainly not. This is certainly a struggle. But it's way easier than starving to death. Like this is like an unprecedented easy time. And because of that, and because there's this narrative that people have to constantly seek comfort, to seek vacation and relaxation and retirement and all that bullshit. And so that's in your head. And there's this softness to existence. And so everything that comes your way is overwhelming. Somebody said this once and it's like a great quote

that I remember. The worst thing that's ever happened to you is the worst thing that's ever happened to you, regardless of how small that is. So if the worst thing that's ever happened to you is like, I remember my girlfriend broke up with me when I was 18 I was like, oh, I couldn't believe it. I thought I was gonna be with her forever. I was so sad Yeah, and then I think back like oh my god. That was the best thing that ever happened. She was a nightmare I was probably a nightmare too, but back then I thought like life was over, right? Yeah, but you have to get through that in order to depreciate life to really appreciate life, but We have this bizarre narrative in our head that you shouldn't suffer. I know

Where does that come from? Okay? Well because it used to be so difficult to live Because and so you would try to find a time where it wasn't difficult And so then it became the thing that everybody focused on. They focused on chilling, relaxing. And the people that I know that don't do anything and don't take any chances and don't take any risks and don't exercise and just seek comfort are the most miserable, anxiety-ridden people I know. Well, that's yeah.

They're pretty much dead inside, right? Yeah. It's complacency. And that's the definition of complacency in my mind. But again, it's counterintuitive, right? Yeah,'s counterintuitive. Yeah exactly comfort is easy as relaxing. It's nice. Yeah, but it's only relaxing if you've earned it Yeah, yeah, correct gotta get through something in order to appreciate just chilling on the couch. Yep Yeah, so that's why I always do I have to fight my have to trick my own behavior and I have to fight my, I have to trick my own behavior into doing things I don't wanna do all the time.

If I don't wanna do it, I'm like, oh, I'm going to do it, don't even think about it, just go do it. Because I know the lazy mind just wants to like, oh yeah, let me just skip the gym today, or let me not do PT today, or whatever the heck it is. I don't wanna get poked and prodded. No, just do it, just go do it.

The thing you don't want to do is the thing you probably should be doing. Almost always. Yeah, and that's why I pretty much always just do that. It gets me out of my way, out of complacency, I just like laziness. It doesn't exist because I do the opposite of what I want to do.

Well, that's why you're happy. And that's why I'm so full of joy, dude. I'm so happy. I've never been happier, more connected to humans, more connected to my daughter, more connected to myself, more centered in my spirit, where I am right now, where I'll go, where I'll be, where I always am and always have been.

It's beautiful, man. Yeah. It's beautiful. You got to conquer your inner bitch. You do, man. That's what it That's what yeah, yeah bitch inside of everyone You have to have like two minds yeah Well, you gotta surround yourself with others too that can inspire you too, right? Yeah, so then you do things as a even as you and I to go work out do something

It's a lot easier than going to the gym by yourself, right? Right. You try to create, because we are social creatures, so let's do things that, like I'm doing, like I'm building a whole rehab recovery center at my house. Like, well, maybe I can open this to the public and make this a communal, cool thing so everyone has access to this stuff. Yeah. And I'm still considering doing that, but like just make it a place to be

and hang so it's everyone can do it and it's not just me. Right. Separating myself from other people, whatever it might be in my life. I try to find ways to make it a communal thing so it just makes it easier to continue this in perpetuity. That's another counterintuitive thing. It's like you have to understand how important community is. It's like a vitamin. Yeah, big time. It really is.

Yeah, well that's a shared experience too that comes with that. Negative or positive, in the tent with your friends, and if you're alone and doing that, right, you have no one to share that misery with. But at least you shared that experience with somebody. Like, dude, never thought I'd love the sun so much. Remember when we were fucking eating ass

Sucking on the rainwater in that tent, you know But it's like even a negative experience can be but it's shared It's still quite beautiful and it's a it's a map a milestone a part of your life that uses barometer to change your or appreciate The Sun more or whatever it might be right? So those shared experiences. I think were invaluable It's the only thing I chase in my life is that for people that ever want to start a fire when it's everything's wet Fritos You know little Fritos. Yeah, I bags of Fritos. Yeah. Yeah, those little motherfuckers are so toxic That if you light those things they're like little fire starters no way man Fritos are crazy

They're like little fire starters. No way. Yeah, man. Fritos are crazy flammable. They stay lit for a long ass time because they're just soaked with oil. Oil, yeah. Yeah, like whatever oil, whatever horrible fucking seed oil, whatever fucking industrial lubricant those fucking things are made out of. But when you light them, they're essentially some sort of a corn byproduct and oil. Right, right. And so if you light those fuckers on fire and then you get some semi dry sticks and

light them, light those. And we started one fire one day because one day it didn't rain. So that one day it didn't rain. Me and my friend Brian Callan, we were determined to start a fire. And so we just found like the driest possible, nothing was dry, but driest possible sticks and twigs and started it and then dried some logs out and it was, they were hissing and steam was coming off them as we were lighting it, but Fritos.

Fritos are an amazing fire starter. Kind of crazy. That's crazy. Makes you think about eating though, what the fuck am I eating? You guys about to eat this shit? Which brings me to another question, how much did you alter your diet after all this because you have to imagine like anything that causes

Inflammation it then becomes an issue. Yeah, I didn't go down so much that wrong. I'm always eating pretty good I Didn't it didn't go into like things that I haven't gone into that even yet to like oh what causes inflammation? What what am I eating that does that I I haven't really gotten that far yet to like, oh, what causes inflammation? What am I eating that – does that? I haven't really gotten that far into it yet. I'm still – I'm sure I will but – or there was a doctor who also helped me and stuff and I have people cook – prepare some certain things for me but I don't – couldn't tell you what causes inflammation that I put in my mouth.

I could not. I mean maybe if I have wine, probably does and alcohol. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, alcohol does for sure. Yeah, yeah. But again, I don't do – I really am good at moderating all things, all things good and bad. So my body has a chance to sort of exist and it's not forced. Too many supplements, too many peptides, too many – anything.

All good stuff, I sort of just moderate. Once I got my blood right, because I was like 205 pounds. I'd never been more than a buck 65. All this surgery weight and all this stuff, and it's hard to get off when you have hemoglobin too. I just had new energy. Also, you probably have to eat a lot too because your body needs calories in order to help you recover.

That and yeah, it's got proteins too. Protein. Yeah. And also it's difficult to eat because again, my molars got pushed in. It's hard to chew. I look fine. But to chew on a nice steak and asparagus thing, it's like this tough. It's tough for me to get through.

Still to this day or no? Yeah. Yeah. It'll be forever. I can't fix it. If I start to move those molars again, they'll probably fall out. Oh, wow. Yeah, and I'd rather keep them and just be uncomfortable. So they just they got pushed in. Yeah, this side Yeah, usually it's sort of like just like an arc to your thing. So my bite just kind of arcs and then goes straight back.

Oh, yeah, all these got pushed in and broke the jaw three times here. So and then just breaking the jaw three times here. And then just breaking the jaw doesn't really heal right. So biting down is quite – it's annoying. It's full chaos in my mouth but I don't bitch about it. I just sort of accept what it is and – Trevor Burrus It could have been so much worse. David Schiff Could have been so much – I have all my teeth.

I have a smile. Trevor Burrus That's great. David Schiff You know, I feel great. And walking and breathing and I have nothing have love and joy in my life. So who cares about what happens in my mouth, man? Right. Yeah. No, it's really kind of an amazing story.

And it's just amazing how these stories can be so inspirational for other people too, which is why I'm really glad you wrote your book. Because these stories, they're like autobiographies especially of people that you admire that you've seen in movies before, it's like those struggles, they're so real and when someone's going through something themselves and they can turn to your book, it can give them a lot. It's fuel for people. It really is. Yeah, it for me as well. I mean I'm so I resisted writing it because I still don't know how or why It can and will inspire people I can only make assumptions and I think it's so particular to the actual reader and the person

But so I can never sort of pontificate on how or why it's important or not But it is like there's an achievement for me to get through it word by word That didn't want to do, to relive it, and then extend my body. I talk about it all the time. It is a part of my narrative, it's a part of my life. It's just recovery, it's just my life. And I love it.

I enjoy it. I feel better, I look better, and all that stuff. But it's like the book now is a tangible sort of, this is a great dialogue that we'll have as long as we want, but it's just a dialogue that exists but now this is a tangible object with words the words don't change they stay there like a tablet and something kind of interesting about that is like a milestone or a tangible thing that now it exists in the world right and psychologically that says a lot to me so that even when I do die, that's still there.

So maybe it can help somebody even when I can't be there to talk with them or whatever it might be, or even exist, right? Something- It'll exist long after you die. Yeah, it's pretty interesting because I do movies and things like that, or music. Those are like the same thing as a conversation.

They just sort of exist in the moment. Like, you know, it's great going to a concert, but then it's over and then that's it. Well, what happened you know, it's great going to a concert, but then it's over. And then that's it. Well, what happened? Well, I could tell you about the concert. But something about something existing beyond your life is something pretty interesting. What was the process like of writing? Did you physically sit down and write things?

Initially, I have a ghostwriter who helped me, because I've never written a book. I've written a me, because I've never written a book. I've written a lot, but I've never written a book. So I wanted to get the format right. And so we would work through this format. It's almost like an outline. And then so we just do interview by each of the sections of this outline that we put out.

And so then we would just talk like this. And they'd tell me, let's talk about this thing. Take me moment by moment in the accident. I'm like, all right, let's do that. And we'd meet every day for like two, three hours, however long I could sustain going word by word on it. And we recorded all the things. And I would write on my own because it would kick up new memories and start writing about

the Lamaze thing. And oh, gosh, that came up. And then that became a whole chapter in the book about breathing, my awareness to breathing and how it became so important in my life. Anyway, so I just kept going and writing and writing and writing. And then I would do talks to companies. I would speak to kids at schools. All this is part of the writing experience because you can ask me the same question,

and then, but we're in this environment. But then if I'm with my family and I tell the same answer the same question, it's a different, it's the same kind of answer, but different. So I kept learning more and more data and information was stored in my brain and my heart and my spirit and I had to unearth it and put it down into words, which is, which I found to be the most difficult thing.

Because as we speak, like I'm doing now, it's free to speak as whatever you want, but to write down the words, oh wait, there's accountability to the words because they're written. And you didn't have more, you have more word choice. My brain doesn't operate as fast as I'd like to for my vocabulary.

I'd probably drop way too many F-bombs instead of like really great words that I do know. So it was nice to be able to take the time and spend the agony to really kind of express word by word through it, you know, in a very real honest way. It's like it's more like a like a diary, a recounting diary than it was trying to be fancy with words and over complicate something that's really quite so simple. What was the process like of going over the words and deciding what to keep and what to edit out and how to format everything and what order to talk about things in?

The order always was working for me from the beginning. It allowed for flexibility for what would come up in conversations in the writing. It allowed for fluidity, but there's a beginning, middle, and end to this. We already knew the end. We already knew the beginning. And so it was it was the branches off of I didn't know I was gonna talk about Lamaze in this book. Didn't know that was a huge milestone in my life that got me to understand what conscious breathing was and mitigate pain because there's a whole thing about Lamaze. I was taken at 12 years old. My mom was pregnant with my sister and she said, pretend it's the cleat, son, you're not

going to soccer practice, just grab a pillow, you're coming with me to the class. I'm like, what class? It was the MAHS class, the YMCA. And my stepdad was out driving a truck or something. And so my mom, she also needed me not to be alone. And she needed, you know, whatever. So she brought me, the oldest. And I laid there with a pillow between her legs and teaching her how to breathe and short

breasts. And then they pulled down a screen. And they showed this midwife birth at home in a bathtub and squirting out water and this whole thing. Like, what's going on? I'm 12 years old. I'm mortified. Like, what happened? Is that a whale breaching? What was going on? You know, and so that came up in just sort of me and my partner talking about it. And he's like, dude, you don't realize. I'm like, yeah, well, that's why the book's called My Next Breath, you know, it's all about breathing.

And breathing was such an essential part of my recovery, myself a part of my, you know, not dying, and to get through each and every moment. The perspective of breath, it is not a conscious thought. It is, right, it's just reflexive in our body. And when we make it a consciousness, when we invest into our breath, what you can do with your mind with your breath, right? It opens up, like the more you breathe,

the more you get oxygen in your body, it's just feeding all of us. It feeds you, it only feeds you. Like yawn, people yawn. And I say the example of like, oh, you're tired. No, you're not tired. It's your body that you know that you need to breathe, get more oxygen in yourself, right? So you're not tired. You just need more O2. That's all. Your body's making that happen. Isn't it fascinating that everybody breathes. So everybody thinks, oh, breathing, what's the big deal? It's like, have you ever read James Nestor's Breath? It's actually Breathe, I guess. But it's an

amazing book on breathing techniques and the history of breathing techniques and all the different things that people have achieved with breathing techniques, including holotropic breathing, which achieves psychedelic states of consciousness and all these different feats of incredible physical endurance that people have achieved through breath work. It's a pretty amazing book. It was a guest of mine on the podcast a few years back, but I read his book and started really getting into it and really trying to practice different breathing exercises and Great, you know, there's a bunch of breathing exercises you can use for anxiety for overcoming very stressful situations But when you say that to most people all breathing they're like, oh, you're one of those guys

Right you're concentrating on your breathing. What else you're concentrating on blinking? Right you're concentrating on your breathing. What else you're concentrating on blinking? It's like you can minimalize it yeah, you could you can you have the reductionist perspective where you don't think it's anything big and Especially if you've never practiced it. Yeah. Yeah We you know, especially with like yogic breathing you can achieve some bizarre states of relaxation and consciousness through breathing. Yeah big time Yeah, you could you could I always try whenever I explain it to somebody It's I just I say like when I use it. I just think I don't do it like in a daily basis I mean, maybe now I do

to But it's like it's I did it for like you said for anxiety when I was like nervous in an audition How do I get out of this situation? Like, I'm not in my body. My heart's going like this. I'm like, I'm not. I can't even read these lines. And I hear Sean Penn in the room.

And I'm supposed to go there and be better than this guy. I'm like, oh, I'm freaking out. I'm sweating. So I said, screw this. I leave the room. I go out of the building. I go out into the street, like on Sunset Boulevard somewhere, find a tree that's rooted in this damn earth.

And I look ridiculous. I don't't care but the courage to go down on your knees go by the root be in this earth just take some deep 10 deep breaths as cars are honking and on Sunset Boulevard I don't give a shit I'm back in my body I'm back on this earth here I am let's fucking go back up in that room and I smashed that audition. I don't remember if I got the role in that, but it doesn't matter. I was back in my body. I was back on earth, right? It wasn't like in the state of hysteria or nervousness or that, you know,

because I don't like that feeling. So I found a way to overcome that feeling. Some people might just live in that feeling all the time. They might like it. I don't know. I don't think they like it. Yeah, I don't think anybody likes it. I think the problem is you just get live in that feeling all the time. They might like it. I don't know. Maybe they used to. I don't think they like it. I don't think anybody likes it. I think the problem is you just get trapped in that feeling

and then the moment something comes up that's very difficult, that causes you to spiral again, you just lose control. You're out of your head. Yeah. Pain, it's pain. It's one of the most difficult things about this whole audition process that actors go through

is that, you know, there's this golden carrot that's at the end of this stick, and if you do a good job, you might be a fucking movie star, you know what I mean, which seems impossible, right? I mean, it must have seemed impossible before you pulled it off, right? Yeah, yeah, I know.'s that's there was never like something I was ever aiming for really what were you aiming for truth and

every and everything I was doing truth yeah honesty and sure how did you yeah because if I don't believe it then how do I expect someone watching me to believe it you know I have to ensure that everything I'm doing is truthful and honest and courageous and bold and you know all the things So it was never to try to be a movies. I just wanted to work Alright, I never wanted to be famous. How did you acquire that perspective? Oh, I don't know It's it's I was clear about what I wanted Very clear about what I wanted and it moved down to LA to be famous

I moved to LA to be in a movie Be in a movie that was big enough that would play in Modesto, California, where I'm from, because you don't get all the movies there, right? And being a part in that movie that I wouldn't have to tell my family, you know, I'm the guy in the red shirt waving the background. It's a part big enough that you would just know I'm in the movie. You'd talk. Yeah. And I got that, all those goals in the first job I ever did on camera in this National Lampoon senior

trip movie. So then I had to recalibrate now new goals to get myself and I was working enough. So I never my goals were always to like that I wanted to be a you know the lead in a you know by the time I got like Dahmer and then Hurt Locker and all these kind of stuff it just kind of made I was ready for that stuff but I was like 38 by that time I was like the new guy in town at 38. Right. Isn't that crazy?

Yeah, I was just ready and you know, I did my journey when stocking. You hurt lockers. Fucking amazing. It was one of the most complex movies about a very bizarre psychological state that people acquire or that people fall into when it comes to war. Yeah. What was it like getting into that mindset? It was interesting. I got to spend, you know,

I was at Fort Irwin for about a year learning how to build bombs and render them safe. For a year? Yeah, yeah. And got to spend time with the guys and gals off kit off camp off campus face Interesting I love I love the whole experience, you know and then gotta go shoot the movie and that was on the Iraqi border and Jordan during the war and It's 135 degrees and 100 pound bomb suit. It's not even hot anymore.

It's just sort of like, you let that go. You just are. It's kind of a spiritual sort of place you have to go in that kind of heat. And also, you're drinking enough water. Like, how am I drinking all this water? You're not even taking a leak. And like, oh, I'm so dehydrated.

I've got to be careful. And that's, yeah, pretty interesting, pretty interesting experience. What were the conversations like when you were talking to the people that actually did that? Well, most of them look like school teachers. There's like one or two guys that one guy was like kind of built like huge big guy, brawn guy. The rest of them were like, you know, the guy I know did three tours. He was, he just, looks like he's totally out of shape. His stomach is way bigger than his chest. He's just kind of

do do do do do kind of. This guy did three tours. This guy's no joke. It's all mental. There's all such a mental game because you have to be cool in those high intense situations because you're dealing with 155 explosives that will blow this building off the block and The the level of intensity is really interesting like They were so comfortable around C4 and all these things at all And you got to be careful these blasting caps and all these things that people were getting injured All the time they got really uncomfortable when I took them to a bar in LA Why we were sitting at the bar and I asked I'm like what's going on? It's a big guy. I can't remember his name

He's like I don't like what we're sitting like why what do you mean? He's like I need my back to the wall and you know where the exit's at and then did that right? And like interesting like I said like that kind of as well I don't like to have I don't think it's a trust issue I just like to kind of I'd have my back to somewhere I know it's an exit is where the bathroom is I look for the most dangerous man in the room the hottest girl in room just do like a like a Terminator checklist right and that was supported by how these guys thought and it's that same kind of thing. They just noticed everything did you do to do just data?

Okay, now I can go be here. I assess the room where I feel safe situational. Yes, it's an oasis awareness I always had that but like really doing that role and spending so much time with these crew of amazing people Just heightened that for me the voice been quiet and observer and this is where I just got in for me I could tell you the color of the hinges if they match the finish on the doorknobs in places. It's just how my brain works. Always. Yeah, yeah, well it's awesome,

I'm a home builder and designer, so I kinda pay attention to that kinda stuff anyway. But it sorta just kinda helps me out in life, I guess. And so when you were preparing for Hurt Locker, was it your decision to spend a year doing this? Well, no, it wasn't about the amount of time. I think I was maybe to go for maybe a few months. Catherine Bigelow, the director, just sort of introduced me, said, right, they're ready

for you out the base if you want to go. So I kind of went out and just kind of did it all on my own and just waiting for the movie to kind of get up and get green and go. Then it just took a little bit longer. I think we're waiting for one of the actors that was doing another job to finish and then we could start. And then it wasn't an easy independent film to kind of get up and get rolling. But once we did, we were rocking.

But yeah, it didn't meant to be like a year, year and a half. She just called me and says, are you ready to go? I'm like, yeah, like I'm getting deployed. Like, yeah, let's go. I'm ready. And then I also – like we didn't even have a – like an EOD sort of tech on the shoot. I had to be the person that – and I had to call back.

I'm like, I don't know. This doesn't look right. They set up these 155s and it's electrical and it should be dead cord and all these things that I learned. But I wasn't an expert by any means I just wanted to make it look authentic in the movie so I had to call back and call me back and we took a picture of this shit I don't think it's right oh wow and yeah so I was fortunate that you had so much experience yeah it was great it was because if there's anything out in that movie especially for people that

actually did that, that takes you out of it. Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah. And I wouldn't want to do that because we want to be very authentic to what we're doing. We are still making a movie, but let's live in this world. And look, the narrative is that the characters that live in this bizarre world in a very relevant time in this war that we're in and and also the struggles of soldier and civilian life. Because they were civilians, and now they became soldiers,

they'd be put in prison for life for doing the shit they're getting paid to do now. And that was a wonderful outcome of the movie of how it bridged that sort of gap, or the struggles with PTSD, and coming back from this harrowing sort of existence and war and then coming back and like the cereal aisle where that example of like really like you know or in the rain and like you appreciate the sun it's just such a polar opposite

and like this is my existence and it became such a really a wonderful sort of starting point for wives to deal with their husbands that came back. They can kind of understand a little bit of what they might have gone through just in general, like the broad strokes of how hard it is. And then to come back and then change diapers and do the thing. You know what I mean? That became such a powerful thing in that narrative that I found after we did it and we're showing it to all the military bases and it's always gonna be a special experience in

my life and always be connected to a lot of soldiers because of that. Well it was a really well done movie and it was the way you could well there was a thing about that movie that made you think in a way, or made me think in a way that I don't think I ever thought before. Like, oh, I never considered what this transition to civilian life is like after dealing with the unbelievable stress of being in a war zone, defusing bombs, and then wanting to go back. Yeah of being in a war zone diffusing bombs and then wanting to go back Yeah, like it but it made you understand. Yeah, it made you understand like oh fuck It can take you into that psychology of the person that would be in that state

Yeah, and and make it make sense. Yeah, that's that was a great movie Yeah, I'm just happy to be part of it was more than just you know, it wasn't just a story It was like you're you're documenting a very real condition. Yeah that you know through art You put words to these people's existence where they don't you know, they don't have anybody representing that Yeah, you know, yes, that's why it means a lot to me and they let me know it means a lot to them people's existence where they don't have anybody representing that. Yeah. That's why it means a lot to me. They let me know it means a lot to them. That's the most special thing.

Like, fuck it, the movie part of it. It's created a dialogue for a lot of broken families and united families better. Like you said, it's a greater understanding of that difference of soldier civilian life. It's a great bridge for it Yeah, I remember very proud of that. I saw it and I went back to the Comedy Store and I said Oh, man, we saw Hurt Locker last night and my friend would dude And that was like oh we had to say like fuck It's like that it was that kind of movie. That just like, Oh my God, like it just gives you anxiety. And it also it also just makes you like really reflect and and think about what war is. And the and the requirement that you're putting on human beings to try to get them to transition from this insane chaos back into civilian life

with no real guidance. Yeah. Just you figure this out. Now you're now you're back in this in the serial aisle. Yeah. Yeah. We're gonna Starbucks. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. How do you decide, like what roles to pick when you're at this stage in your life where you're so well known, people come to you with things, and you have to decide whether or not this project is something that resonates with you? Well, now it's different. The essential part of my life for so long was my career.

And then my daughter came around around and then she's number one so then I would do The job that would Allow me still to be a father because I'm not gonna not be a father because my job takes me away for long periods of time And it's not doing that in far places. So I would so I'm not I'm not working out of the country anymore Once my daughter was born far places. So I'm not working out of the country anymore once my daughter was born. So I always had reach and access to my daughter as fast as I needed to be. And then now after the incident, it's even tightened up more and loosened up more because my daughter is

now 12 and she doesn't need me as much. She wants her friends a little bit more. Right, right. That's a little bit low on the tonal pool. Just temporarily, I know, but. And also I can travel, like I just worked last summer on a job, there's a movie called Knives Out. And then they got, I brought my whole family with me. Knives Out was great. Yeah, it's awesome, yeah.

So this is gonna be a really good one too. But I was able to bring my entire family out. Like 15 people came out, cause a lot of them not will travel, and I got to see a lot of Europe. Took my mom and my daughter to the Olympics in Paris. Dope. Got to spend a couple of weeks in Italy and it's kind of celebrate. Yeah, so we can do that kind of stuff now. So I did the job essentially just to have a summer vacation with my family. So that's kind of how I decide. And also I did love the character

I did love. I mean, love I mean come on all that has to line in there too I'm not just gonna do a job for a job but it just lined up but my family has to be involved my daughter has to be involved friends have to be involved otherwise I'm not going to remove myself from all those shared experiences people in my life just so I can go do a movie I don't want to do any movie that bad so that's my limitation. That limitation's real success too. Did you really choose things

that you're actually passionate about that fit within these parameters that allow you to live your life the way you want to? Yeah, and work with people that inspire me. And I think, you know, I'm just not gonna do a job. Like you can't pay me. Maybe you could put a trillion dollars in front of me. Go do this, you only need you for two weeks.

I'm like, it doesn't fit. It doesn't tick all the boxes that have real value. Right. The shared experience, the joy with my daughter, my family, my friends, and you know, then it's just not worth it to me. You know, I don't need to go act for a, to do a job. I don't.

Right. You know? You do it because you want to. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's to me what retirement is. And I'm doing what I want to do, because you want to yeah, yeah, and that's that's to me what retirement is And I'm doing what I want to do what I want to do it with and I'm still always gonna be busy and work all my life I'll do that yeah, but it's not but I might yeah, but it is a better life Well, it is in my mind. I'm a busy guy, and I like I like to like to I like to contribute I'm very busy doing the renovation foundation right which is a

I like to contribute. I'm very busy doing the Renovation Foundation, right, which is a huge, big central part of my life, with my family that runs this charitable foundation in my community in Lake Tahoe for foster youth and disadvantaged youth, and giving them opportunities that they don't have these poor kids. And that's great. And I love that. I love I get, is that retirement? It's going to keep me busy until I die.

It's weird that you have to frame things and Career or retirement. It's really just life life and passions Yeah, exactly, but I don't think a lot of people are doing what they want to do in their life anyway But yeah, I'll always always work always do the things I love to do and I'm still continuing to do the things I love to do just on my own terms do and I'm still continuing to do the things I love to do just on my own terms. Right? I wouldn't be able to start this foundation if I wasn't living life on my own terms. I am satiated beyond satiated.

I don't need anything. I require a shared experience on this earth and that is it. This is more so now since the accident? Well, it's always been that. But there's a lot of things in the way or things I allowed to be in the way or things I put in the way. Allowed to be in the way. Yeah I allowed to be in the way and now I do not. I refute it, I push it away, I am certainly clear when I put obstacles on my own way when I get my own way we all do that shit too. But so I'm just very very very clear and I

keep a lot I oversimplify life Because life is just that simple If we complicate it then you're gonna have an over complicated life and it's just not as valuable. I think I live both Yeah, and the wonderful over oversimplification has allowed me to Again use the word retirement in my mind I'm just living a life that I want to live right that I deserve to live, that I choose to live, and not be limited or rabbit-holed or victimized by society or the country I'm living in or the neighborhood I'm living in or the job I have.

You know, I don't have any limitations because I'm making manifest everything that I have in my life. And it feels great. And I'm the captain of the ship. It might take a minute to turn this bitch around, right? But I'm the captain of this damn ship, it's called my life.

And I think everybody has the capacity to do so. Well, that's another beautiful thing of living life by example that can inspire people. Because that's really what people want to do. They wanna live a life where they feel like, this is great, like what I'm doing is people want to do. They want to live a life where they feel like, this is great. Like, what I'm doing is what I want to do. Most people, they don't live like that.

Most people, they have this dream in the future. One day, I will be able to live the way I want to, but I'm not doing it right now. Right, right. I think that's a trap, personally. I think you're doing it already. The journey is there. There's no end result. Besides, yeah, you might. I know, trap personally, I think you're doing it already. The journey is there. There's no end result besides. Yeah, you know, but there's so many narratives that people

adhere to. There's so many narratives out there in culture. Yeah. They tell you, you should be doing this and you should be doing that. And yeah, this is a concentrate on your 401k. And what are your investments? And you fucking end of the night you need a pill to go to sleep. Yeah, yeah. It's even crazier now with social media and all that. That's poison. That's just white noise and garbage. I mean, I've been off it lately for like the last few weeks where I literally just check it when I'm taking a shit and that's it. I look to see if there's anything crazy going on in the world just so I know what's happening.

But I don't ever get involved. I don't ever argue with people or post things and I just see people doing it and I'm like, you're losing your fucking mind. I've had conversations with friends and they're like, you know what, fucking this and that and that and this. I'm like, you're losing your fucking mind. And I've had conversations with friends and they're like, you know, you know what? Fucking this and that and that and this. I'm like, why? Why are you paying attention? This is like, let's go outside.

Look, look at all the birds. Yeah. Look at the clouds. What a lovely day. Like you're, you're alive in America in 2025 is like a magical time to be alive. And you're concentrating on some shit that literally has no Effect on your life and you're making it your primary focus. That is the definition of madness Yeah, I mean it really is. Yeah, you're freaking out about things that aren't even here. Yeah. Well, that's where you get in your way

You're giving that value. You don't know. Yeah but you know, it's just like Perspective is a very difficult thing to earn. And so it is it is. Well, right. How do we get it? How do we get experience, right? Experience, overcoming adversity, developing character, shared experience.

That's a big part of it. You know, like with people that you love and you really connect with who you surround yourself with. Yes, that's most of the key to life. Yeah. Like if you surround yourself with really great people, you're forced to become a really great person. It's like you have to keep up with it.

Yep. This foundation, tell me how you started that. Initially started with a show that I produced and put on Disney Plus, which is called Renovations. And it was taking, I didn't like to see a lot of vehicles go to waste, like purpose-built vehicles like a city bus or a fire truck and all these things that are supposed to go a long, long, long ways, but they just replace them even though they're perfectly good vehicles. So I wanted to repurpose those and help them

help communities in need. And like so it's taking, I built one to be a water truck, a box truck to be a water treatment plant to give kids and villages with terrible water and be able to reverse osmosis their water and give them drinkable water at their school or take a, there's a, it's like a city bus and turn it into like a dance studio, mobile dance studio for these kids in Mexico and just these creative sort of things and it's kind of like pit my ride but with like real valuable things, you know, just take these really cool purpose-built trucks and staying and make it something really spectacular for these kids, all kids driven to give them what their needs are.

And then it just went into like I didn't want to make it about just vehicles when I wanted to start the foundation. It became a wonderful calling card. And then I started the foundation and my sister works for DCFS, Child Protective Services in Los Angeles County. And one of my best girlfriends in Reno, she also works for CPS, Child Protective Services there. So I've been working with foster

youth for many, many, many years, privately. And now I just wanted to really get invested into the community. So I started small in northern, greater northern Nevada. And it's in my sister now is running it and Shane is running it as well with me and the whole family has now gotten involved and it's been really wonderful to come back from the incident, have this be a central goal for us to celebrate our time together as a family and to give back to these kids that are in great need. And it has been a dream of mine that I've been wanting to do for a long time and now do it publicly. I've been doing it do for a long time and now do it publicly. I've been doing it privately for a long time. And to really make a big splash and make a lot of movement for these kids. And I think it's one of the reasons why I was brought

back outside of all the other things. But I think there's something working in my favor to come back outside just my family. And I think it is my reach to kids and my ability to have a great effect for them. And it's been a couple years now, and it's already been moved the mountains for kids already, and will continue to do so. This is like me breathing. This is easy.

I love this. This is a part of my fiber, my body. I'm the oldest of seven in my family. I've been changing diapers and living as the oldest It's sort of my birthright to be able to do what makes it even cooler is that I'm a Marvel superhero So I have like a reach and access to these kids that they didn't even listen to right there like oh cool Let's go to camp with Hawkeye. That's just dope and they all show up with plastic sacks, right? And this is like all their valuables in their life and it makes you weep

Right, and this is all they're worth and they show up with hefty bags all of them So we give them rollers with their names on it and a passport is a journal and I can I'm gonna change the narrative of this There of their trial. You're a traveler now. You're a world traveler You're not you're not carrying your trash around for all your your worth in it. Your worth is much bigger than that We're gonna just planting seeds like that in their head and then creating community for them, creating opportunities for them, safe places for them, giving them more educated stuff. We brought in a recording studio, BuzzForm, to touch all these instruments that they never have access to. Who knows what that does? I don't care. Let it have access to things. Give these

kids opportunities that they deserve. This is the future of our fucking planet. Why aren't we giving more time and effort to that? It's the future of our world, man. Let's give them, let's give them all the tools. We need another Elon. We need other super smart amazing people, man. We need that. We need other leaders, and you know, what do we give in our youth? Especially our foster youth man? It's not a good look They've gone through a lot of struggles these kids man, and they're not gonna struggle not on my dime not in my time That's amazing. So it's easy for thing for me to do. I love it's a great focus for me. That's

outside of It's things I enjoy right I still do things that I enjoy I just get to do it with these kids and have they teach me so much I learned so much to keep me in a really useful spirit I it's harrowing to hear what they've been through Joe I don't like to know my sister knows all about it Shana knows all about it because they get the phone calls. They have relationships with a lot of these kids. They know, dude, I mean, I'd flip you. You'd probably react like I would. You want to flip a table. You want to hurt some people, you know, and it's so I'd prefer not to know how they got touched and who did

it and da da, you know, this kind of stuff. I just try to choose a focus on let's give these kids a plant some seeds of hope. And I'm good at that shit. That's awesome. And I love it. So we're on jet ski. They've never even been to this lake and da-da. So whatever the heck it is, new experiences, new joy, new friends, they're all crying at the end of this camp because they had such a good damn time. One of them was getting adopted and she was crying because like I can't come back because I'm not a foster kid anymore. I've got adopted. They're like, no, you can come back.

You know you did good then when she didn't want to get adopted. They're like, ah, it means we're doing something right for these kids. And we're going to continue doing it. And we're doing it not only just as a camp, but we're doing lots of programs throughout the year to keep the community of the foster youth community together. A lot of these kids are brothers and sisters that never get to see each other because they're in separate homes, separate cities. One ones in Reno right this that's dude you can't do that you can't do that so we're doing our best to Unite community right unite you need we need each other these kids need each other even beyond they don't need me

They need to access and reasons to be together. So it's helping the foster parents, it's helping the kids, it's whatever we can do, we're going to start building youth centers as well. We'll be building homes as well in the future with the foundation. But we're starting step by step, breath at a time, brick by brick, and building camps and activities and education for them. And it's, I I love it you can see how much I love it. You lit up when you talk. Yeah yeah yeah yeah I love it man. I can't we have these camps coming up here in June and July so I'm pumped can't wait to finish this job and go go go back home. That's incredible yeah it's kind of

shocking that it takes individuals to be inspired to do something like this because society doesn't put any emphasis on this Well, it's like look there's a there's foster states have foster programs, right? There's that's right, but there's gaps in the system And it's like kids forgotten kids are forgotten and then some more. Yeah, it's you know, it's it's it's tragic. It's but Some are, it's tragic. But put a spotlight on something, put energy into something. It builds. And I got a loud voice and a big heart and I'm very actionable with what I do and that's why the foundation is growing and making the moves and making the paving ways for these kids so I'll keep doing it, man. It's like,

it's easy. How long have you been doing this now? Publicly, only a couple years. It's just started out. So, you know, then it's like learning about all the nonprofit stuff. It's like, oh, man, it's like going out and asking for money. So I don't do that. I'll go do like voiceover jobs and like put money in the account for I hate asking for money for foundation stuff, you know. I'll go do like voiceover jobs and like put money in the account for I Hate asking for money for foundation stuff, you know, I'll let somebody else kind of bother that I do I stay in my lane I work with the kids and work with the ideas and the programs and I let my sister and those guys in the on the board

Deal with like you're having to raise money and all those kind of things. It's just not my wheelhouse Well, unfortunately people here nonprofit. They always think okay. Well, where's the money really? Well, that's where it is And that's why we operate at 8% I think 8% yeah, nobody does that. That's the opposite of how they're usually done. Yeah, exactly Yeah, so I mean even if we got it to because no one's no one takes anything except just basic operating costs And we're operating at 8% of the meat 13% is like all the money is going to the kids man All of it all of it all of it So it's I'm trying to get to the bank account to be full. So we only operate off

the Interest once we're there then we can really Start to start to move needle for for building things and doing some stuff in the future. So I'm excited for that. Are you going to expand this? Yeah, it'll grow. It'll grow. Again, I think to keep effective for me is staying in the home area or just the state of Nevada at least and not going too far.

So because I still I'm very, very hands on and it's important for me to be the voice for the foundation and for these kids and an advocate for them. And so Nevada is kind of the goal for the next five years for sure. And there's still a ton of kids that I have not reached and need to reach. So I focus on that. That's amazing. Yeah. Then there's like getting these youths that age out, they're getting back into being counselors

back in the camp. There's a great thing with UNR, they get a free ride at the university and a lot of them are going back into sociology and psychology and want to go help kids and foster like, this is so great. So I want to give them opportunities to come back and help the youth and maybe give them guidance. God this is awesome. Self-healing and cathartic in its own way. Whatever we can do man. It's a wonderful, wonderful life. It's amazing because you light up when you talk about that like nothing else we've talked about before.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it is everything. It's, again, I'm focusing my energy on all the positive stuff, you know, because I can't be too sensitive to deal with the hardships that they go through. So let me just be a guiding light for them or someone to laugh on. They can sign my t-shirts, whatever they want to do. I don't care. I'm their playground. I love it, man. Again, I think it's the reason why I came back, Joe. That's incredible. You could see that it means so much to you.

Yeah. And that's just – if you could find something like that in life, you're a winner. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just think of the amount of positive energy you put out there in the world. Yeah, it's pretty exponential, too.

And then also how it cascades. Yeah, yeah, the ripple effect of that is insane. Changed their lives. They'll change other people's lives. Yeah. And then it comes back. It's pretty what you put out in the world Is what you get back, you know, yeah, I see it every day and it's exponential

especially now since the incident the ripple effect of just Dude, what this happened in my driveway is a private Experience I woke up and it was a global thing. I didn't ask for that. So kind of glad it did allowed People to see me as the man that I am and not the guy that slings an arrow You know so that's it so I'm glad it became a big public thing but you know the ripple effect of just that this narrative of the recovery is, like you said, it can affect a lot of people and it's a beautiful thing, it's a positive thing, and like the foundation, and I see it and feel it every day. You really lead an exemplary life, my friend. Well,

what's the alternative? I know, but I mean it's interesting that you have this perspective, like I'm always curious the people that have such an amazing perspective like how did you gain it? Like how did you get to this place? Yeah well I mean you have to I think you have to life and review right? Yeah. You know there's a life and review I think there's I think you know there's birth order Right there's also being in the 70s in a small town where I was a latchkey kid

Right, you didn't I I had free reign it was seven years old and a key to the house You didn't have to come home to the street lights came on right now. I yeah, I made mistakes Yeah, I broke windows and slingshots and stole shit and done light up the cigarette butt and my Moms and all this stuff. I got caught and sometimes I learned I reprimand myself. I self-policed myself I was very honest kid You know, there's a lot a lot of a lot of things, you know I had I had a bicycle and then that was like freedom. That's right You can like oh I have real freedom. I got a fishing pole, got on my bike and just went off into another county.

Like that wouldn't happen today. I would never allow my daughter to walk across the street. I had a similar life. I was a latchkey kid too and I just think the horror. Where was this? Well I lived all over the place. When I was 7 11. I lived in San Francisco from 11 to 13. I lived in Florida from 13 till 24. I lived in Boston. Oh, wow. Then New York and out here.

Oh, wow. Or, well, LA rather, and then out here the last five years. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, that's a good mix. Yeah, that's a good mix, right? Well, the good thing about living in a bunch of different places is the bad thing is I never really developed roots.

But I had to form my own opinions because I couldn't count on the opinions of all the people around me. I didn't have a core group of friends. So I always had to sort of see the world for what it was. Yeah, did that make you an introvert or an extrovert or both? I think I was an introvert initially. I don't think I ever, even though I talk for a living and I'm a public figure, I'm not really an extrovert, which is really odd. Like I don't really like attention, which sounds crazy for someone who gets a lot of attention. I don't need it, you know, which is probably why I get it

in some strange, yeah. Some strange, like I was very socially anxious when I was a kid. I would get super nervous when I had to talk to a bank teller. I remember one time I had to deposit money in a bank and I was like, why am I freaking out like this? This is so weird.

But eventually overcame all that stuff and then through martial arts traveling around from all throughout my youth from the time I was 15 till I was 22. So all I did was travel around the country and competing. So I had a very bizarre life in that I didn't have like the normal high school life of partying and hanging out and I was you know flying to California to fight right it was weird right it was a very weird life you know so I you know I did I was still wasn't an extrovert like I didn't really learn how to talk in groups of people till I started

teaching so I started teaching martial arts. And then that's how I learned how to public speak. But I was publicly speaking about something that I was very good at. So it was like I commanded sort of attention just because I would demonstrate to them things that I was doing. And then in demonstrating and talking,

it made sense that I was able to talk. About something you knew very well and you're comfortable in. Yeah, you know, it's like, I was really good at it so I could show them, I'm gonna demonstrate something to you, and then I'd do it, and they'd be like, holy shit, I'm gonna show you how to do this.

And then if you listen to me, like I taught at Boston University when I was 19, and it was real, counter to GPA, it was real, counted towards your GPA. It was like pass, fail, A. And I'd say, all you have to do is show up and try, and you get an A. And if you can't show up, call me. Tell me you can't make it, and you'll be fine. If you fuck off, I'm going to fail you.

But if you just try, you get an A. And then it counts towards your GPA. This is like a legit thing. Yeah. Like, well, all I want you to do is like this can help your life And I'm not thinking you're gonna go and fight and compete but I can teach you something here Yeah, and it's difficult you'll get better at it and through getting better at it You'll learn how to get better at other things the discipline. Yeah Yeah, so that's like how I got in a comedy in the oddest way The discipline and yeah, yeah, so that's like how I got in a comedy in the oddest way

Learning how to talk to people because I wasn't comfortable talking to me I always felt like a loser and a weirdo and I always felt like an outcast. Yeah, so for to Learn how to talk publicly like that's how I did Yeah, you know, but all that traveling around just gave me this very bizarre like rootless sense of who I was as a person. Is there anything that you grabbed from that experience that you hold on to? I mean like to – you know, from – there's just some positive things that kind of come out from that, right? Yeah.

Like I went to a different school every year in my life, at least until I got to high school. But I was in the same town. I didn't move around a lot. Maybe just in the town I did divorce and all that sort of stuff or schools were full right was so I had to Either engage with people all brand new people each grade new school new grade. Yeah, and then you know you're growing up I was more shy and I think more like you like an introvert and so either I was Very gregarious, or I just was an observer and right I just watched so you just make choices and That's why I became an observer, but with that I don't know I Liked I liked that part of me and I can be extroverted like I'm an actor and a thing

But I'm still more insular and quiet and yeah, even though the two crew quiet guys are you have more insular and quiet and yeah even though the two quiet guys are yapping their jaws off for hours. Well I mean you it was hard but I wouldn't have wanted it any other way because I think it made me different you know and I think there's unfortunately if you are in like a small town and you grow up in that town and you never leave that town, your perspective is very limited. Yeah, yeah. Big time.

I moved around a lot. I think that was very uncomfortable. I hated it when I was a kid. Like, fuck, we're moving again to another state. This is crazy. That made me who I am. Again, it made me form my own opinions instead of adopting Yeah, a conglomeration of opinions that everybody around me had, you know, and I went from

very liberal and progressive San Francisco in the 1970s during the Vietnam War to living in Florida, right where it was like Completely the opposite like super conservative and kind of retarded. And I remember just being around people like, why do they even think like this? This is crazy. It was so strange to me to have this like complete juxtaposition, almost like a cultural 180. But it also made me realize like, wow, there's a lot of different ways to think. There's a lot of different ways to engage with life. Yeah. You know? Well, don't we, like, especially growing up, right?

Because you're saying like seven, eight, 13, 14, all those years, we look to our friends and friendship groups as sort of like kind of help develop ourselves and kind of be a reflection upon ourselves. And if you don't have it, you have other things that you turn to. But like you said, it could have been a terrible thing if you stayed in the same place. You had the same core four dues, and then how limited your life would have been

to stay in San Fran. So like you said, there's a real good positive thing to take from being removed from stability, removed from, right? That's all anxiety inducing. Or it could be the perspective, right? The perspective could be, but if it's a positive perspective You know and to lean on yeah, you like you said I like how I came in a thing and it drove you into

All the things that you probably like about yourself today. I think it's pretty interesting Yeah, and it also like I got picked on a lot too in which that's what I'm doing the martial arts Yeah, Boston days. Yeah, I hate being scared of people. Yeah. It just drove me nuts. Yeah. I didn't have friends. So like a group of guys would fuck with me

and I didn't know what to do. So I was like, OK, I got to fix this. So I became obsessed with martial arts. And then once I started doing that, it was like the first thing that I ever did, I was like, hey, I don't think I'm a loser. I just think I never figured out how to get good at something. And now that I'm really good at this one thing, I'm like the opposite of a loser.

And then I became obsessed with winning. That was like my whole life until I was like, I don't think I want to do this anymore. And then I transitioned to other things. But that period of time wouldn't have happened if I lived in a comfortable environment where I wasn't fucked with, and where I didn't get bullied. You know, I wouldn't have that desire to, like, do something that was completely terrifying.

Because I was scared of physical confrontation. So what do I do? Spend my whole life getting involved in, like, voluntary physical confrontation with trained fighters right which is way more terrifying right the most terrifying thing you know you know but that but what's the alternative oh just be scared and be bullied and beat the fuck up or that's what I had to decide yeah you know take the reins and I had to decide that yeah I just had to make this change, you know? Yeah.

Fortunately, it worked out. Yeah. It's very bizarre, the turns that life takes, and when you look back, you're like, what if that hadn't happened? What if I hadn't done this? What if I hadn't turned left? Yeah, the crossroads are so, so instrumental in who we become. Right. And in control of that? Like, we're not steering any ship at that point, right?

No, so much of it is luck. Yeah. Or whatever it is. Or fate. Whatever fate means. Yeah. You know what I mean? Fate is kind of assumed once an outcome has been achieved.

Oh, it was fate. Yeah, in hindsight. Was it really? In hindsight, you could say that. Yeah, I'm not sure. Say that in the moment. Right. Really in hindsight you can say that yeah, I'm not sure say that in a moment, right? I do think there's there's a certain power to following instincts Which I've always done for whatever reason you know

There's a there's a pull that you have towards a certain direction even if it's like massively uncomfortable like sometimes you have to realize like Okay, let's go like this is what I'm supposed to do. And that is very hard to do. But once you do it a few times, and then you start saying, there's a little voice in your head like, that motherfucker's never let me down. I'm gonna keep serving that voice. Whatever that voice is, I'm gonna keep listening.

Even though people are like, what are you doing? And I'm like, ah... I'm not gonna listen to you. I hear that a lot. Yeah. Yeah. I think so to a lot of people that have accomplished great things. I don't think anybody who listens to the advice of everyone around them ever steps out of line.

You know, I don't think you ever really try anything crazy. Yeah, you got it. Because most people aren't gonna wanna support you when you're trying something that seems insane, whether it's trying to be a movie star or whatever it is, trying to be a martial artist or a rock star or anything in life that's hard to do. Most people are going to tell you don't do that, especially people that are conservative, conservative in a sense of like do something that is going to give you a good chance of success. Because the more fun things are very open-ended. They

don't really have a lot of success. Like what are the numbers of people that become successful actors? Is it like a tenth of a percent? It's probably less than that. If you could get a chart of like how many people move to Los Angeles to try to make it in show business And how many make it it's gotta be an number so numbers are not good Those numbers you have to be insane Yeah, but some my thought was like fuck somebody's doing it like somebody did it like why can't I do it? And then people would say you're not you know, with the odds you're gonna make it?

Like, I don't know. Why am I thinking about that? Someone, it can be done. People have done it. Like, you gotta, but you have to be willing to just really fucking throw yourself into something and know that, especially in the beginning, there's no time to fuck

off here. If you really want to do something that's really hard to do like you got to be all in because there's too many people that are all in and you're competing with them. You're not competing with these like half steppers these people that are kind of dipping in and dipping out. They're there as an example if you did not live your life. Yeah yeah yeah. Well isn't there like a kind of a selective hearing that kind of has to happen in anything for anyone? We have to listen and really listen to engage

and really listen to learn and grow. But then we have to have selective listening to like, how many times I was told no, or told I was told I was crazy, or to like, what are you doing? You out of your mind? I'm like, oh, now I knew I'm on the right track when I hear that. Because that's, that's, that's,

that's the words of a fearful person. Those, those are, those are, those are the words uttered from someone who's scared and not courageous and a lot of stuff's in their way. I'm on the right track. Well, not just that. There are those people that would try to sabotage you because they don't want you to be successful because they haven't taken a chance in their life. So they don't want anybody who does, who's courageous to... they want you to fail. There's people out there that want people that are courageous to fall apart because then it makes them feel better for their own choices.

Sure. That's okay. They got to live with that. I don't, right? Right. Right. They got to swim in that. I don't.

But again, I think that those things are just like you need the rain to appreciate the Sun. Yeah, yeah. You know, you need to struggle to appreciate love. They have to coexist otherwise they don't exist. Yeah. It's like a truth and a lie. They both have to exist. Otherwise, everything's just fucking true. Right, right. Right, so that you have to coexist together. Otherwise, you don't. That's the hardest part of life to truly understand, like why is there evil? Right. You need love, you need good, like why why can't everything be love? Well it can't, it can't. There has to be evil people for you to appreciate loving people, you know, there really has to be kind people for you to you know, to appreciate, oh okay, life is not just all cruelty. But you have to know that cruelty exists for you to appreciate kindness.

Yeah. Weird. Yeah. It's a weird dance and it's… It's strange. Yeah. Like, if God is real, what a strange game He's playing. But you can kind of, when it all works out, you see wisdom in it. You know, you're like, can kind of when it all works out you see wisdom in it you

know you like I kind of get it. Yeah like you the life is not just utopia it's a strange mix of good and evil. Yeah. And love and hate and and all these things that are in the way. Yeah those tests man tests, don't they suck? They do. All the tests we have in our lives, and everybody has them. Everybody. There's nobody that's exempt from it. No one. And when I have this money, I have successful notes, ugh, you are all, we're all susceptible

to great tests and great suffering. Yeah. It's how well you overcome that suffering, it will determine how well you love and deeply you love in your life. And also the people that have overcome the most are the most fascinating and interesting and complex people. Aren't they? Aren't they?

Have you ever met Amanda Knox? Do you know who she is? Yeah, I know she is. She's that woman that was accused wrongly of a murder in Italy. Yeah, I remember that. She spent years in prison in Italy. And she is so fascinating. She's so strong and so interesting. And I asked her about this.

I was like, do you ever think like you are this really unusual person with this like fucking cast iron integrity and character. Would you be this person if you hadn't been wrongly accused and spent years in prison and publicly persecuted and then eventually absolved? Like who would you be? I mean, would you want it any other way? I mean, I don't, I wouldn't wish that on anybody. But yet here you meet her.

She's so incredible. It's like life is very, very odd. Yeah. And there's choices that she could have made, right? In that. She could have been resentful. I don't know how she is, so I don't know. She's not at all.

Yeah, but there's... And she could have been valid in any kind of feeling she has about things, because that all sounds pretty shitty. Yeah. But what's the alternative? You want to hold on to resentment, and is that the life you want to live and uh, but you know, what can, what's the alternative? You should, you want to hold on to resentment and that kind of, is that the life you want to live? Cause it's your choice.

Right. I like, fuck, sounds like an interesting person to talk about, but, um, you know, is it a choice of the choice for her? Does she feel like it was a choice? Like, you know, what was certainly wasn't. Yeah. No, I mean, did you feel like that, that made her who she is and she's content with that or I mean, she's, she's certainly resigned to what it is, but she's very happy now.

But not just happy, but complex. Like a complex, compassionate, charitable thinker. What's the conversation if she's still in the joint? She's still in the clank and there's no hope of her getting out. She learned a lot in there, too. Yeah, I bet. People, like, what the terrible choices that people make, because most of the people that were in there were guilty.

You know, and the terrible choices that these people make, and like, what happened to you when you were young? Like, why did you become a person who murdered your husband? Why did you become a person who, you know, robbed a bank? Why did you? What went who robbed a bank? What went wrong? You used to be a baby. This is something that I really changed, being a parent really changed my perspective of human beings in a very profound way, in many, many profound ways. But one of the biggest ones is I stopped looking at people as being static. I stopped

looking at, oh, Jeremy's 54, he's always been 54. That's how I know it now I look at everybody like oh you were a baby. Yeah, you were a baby like, you know what I mean? Yeah You know, I love my daughters dearly and they're very extraordinary people but it's been fascinating to watch them as Little babies become these really complex human beings and have conversations with them and talk to them and see how they interface with life. And then I meet people who are all fucked up and angry and fucking hateful and I'm like, God damn, what happened? What went wrong?

Yeah. What are the things that and how do you get out of this? Yeah. It's interesting. Yeah. You know, what are the things that and how do you get out of this? You know? Yeah. It's interesting. Yeah. It's, you know. I mean, it's, there's so many trials and tribulations in this wonderful existence that we all share. And I think we learn a lot through other people's, not just your own, but other people's. Yeah. yeah, for sure. Well, that's the hope, anyway. We can, right? Yeah. Well, I think a lot of people are gonna learn a lot

through you. And without having to do it in a fearful way, or scare tactics, or, you know what I mean? That doesn't really work. Yeah, yeah, but it's used everywhere, in media, and advertising, and all that kind of stuff. But to do it in an honest way Or it's like I hope I still learn by talking about my experience, right?

I still learn by looking through the book or listening to the audio I'll be listening to the audio soon when I have my daughter and all my nieces nephews around they're gonna listen to it We're all gonna listen to it together. So I'm not gonna have them go off reading this thing It's too harrowing to do it alone. But like I'll be listening to it. I'm gonna learn through it. And with that experience and that exchange with these beautiful young creatures, you know. So you'll be learning for so long. It's only been a couple of years which is really crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll keep trying and testing the limits of my body and my mind and my spirit and what I can pass

on to others, what I can give on to others, what they give me. I mean, it is a vibrant, high vibration that I'm living right now. And I'm so blessed to have it. I have so much gratitude at every breath. I almost feel like I don't have to walk anywhere, I sort of live it. I just feel so lucky. And I think it has to do with all the love and all the goodness that this world has to offer. I think that's it's gotten me through And that the attitude of it that perspective of that Because it could be a very bleak dark place. Yeah, you know, but I I choose to I choose love I choose

action I choose My perspective. It is my choice. And I've been in dark places where it wasn't quite so positive and so lovely. It was well before the accident, you know. It was just like, you know, just kind of grumbly and grumpy and don't want to leave my house and, you know, I don't want to go sign autographs, I don't want to be around people or, you know, just kind of whatever, you know. Not a really great, happy place, perhaps, you know I don't want to go sign on a grad and want to be around people or you know I'm just kind of whatever you know Not a really great happy place perhaps you know like everybody has the right to be but if that doesn't exist This point you know I don't get any more bad days Joe No more bad days brother right it's it's a perspective that is mine and a truth and reality that is mine

Because I have a barometer to like yeah I know what a bad day is actually like and I was tested to my limits and I got through it luckily somehow some way and It's it's a it's just a almost science at this point it's a factual that it's just not going to happen. I can't. No matter if I tried so hard to have a bad day, it's just not going to happen. I can have a bad moment, I can have frustrating times, but I'm just not going to have a bad day and for the rest of my experience here on earth. Trevor Burrus That's amazing.

And I think that experience, this perspective that you're sharing is contagious. I think so too, dude. Yeah, I know, actually I know so. I know so. Yeah, I think so too. For a fact. It's sort of make manifestation of what your existence is you want to be. Yeah. And you can do it. Yeah. But you gotta believe it, you gotta do it. Yeah. Both those things. I think that's why it's beautiful that you wrote this book. Yeah. My next breath? Yes Yes sir. Thank you, Jeremy. It was awesome. I really appreciate you. Likewise, brother. You make me happy, man. You bring out a lot of good stuff in me. You reaffirm a lot of good things in me in a really, really meaningful way, and I appreciate you.

I appreciate you too. Thank you. It was a lot of fun. Thank you. I'll see you at the UFC's too, man. Absolutely. Okay. Go buy this book, folks. Yes, sir. Bye, bye.