The Joe Rogan Experience - #2313 - Jillian Michaels

Episode Date: April 30, 2025

Jillian Michaels is a fitness expert, certified nutritionist, author, and television personality known for  "The Biggest Loser" and "Losing It With Jillian." She is the host of the podcast "Keeping It Real: Conversations with Jillian Michaels." www.jillianmichaels.com 50% off flowers & more with code JOE50 at checkout. Visit https://www.doordash.com/p/mothers-day Take 50% off a SimpliSafe system at simplisafe.com/ROGAN Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Joe Rogan Experience. Trained by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day. Yes. Good to see you. You too. We were just talking about boomers, about parents, parents that they don't want to believe anything other than what they're getting from the news. It's been a challenge.

My dad is an absolute lost cause. My mom is now open to the conversation and she'll send me a bunch of different articles and then she'll allow me to disseminate from my perspective. But it's been, it's been a rough ride. Yeah, I've got them on peptides now, which is nice. Same. A rough ride. Yeah, I've got them on peptides now, which is nice. Same! And I've got my stepdad on testosterone replacement, which is nice, and he's seeing benefits of those things.

So it's like they're slowly starting to incorporate some of these things, but their whole life they've been told that the doctor knows everything and that the news is always correct and anything contrary to the news is bullshit. But arguably when our parents were our age it was reliable. I don't think so. No? No, I think it's always been compromised. I just think there was no alternatives.

That's interesting. Yeah, that's what I think. My mom is a psychoanalyst, PhD. This is a very educated, thoughtful woman. And... Sometimes that's the worst. No, no. She's... I would argue against in this case. I do appreciate people who see flaws in psychoanalysis, but I've learned a huge amount from my mom in this area. And she also... She majored in journalism before changing careers to psychoanalysis. And so

for her to even wrap her head around the fact that journalism can be compromised is almost inconceivable. Right. I didn't mean psychoanalysis is bad. What I meant is that a lot of times educated people defer to other educated people. Like they're an expert in their field,

so they assume that all the other experts in their field are also correct. And any heretic is just a fool. I would happen to agree with that point. Yeah. Yeah. That's why we were talking about Fauci on the way in and both of my parents could arguably canonize the guy, you know, or now I think I've broken through with my mom, but it has taken me since since your episode with Brett Weinstein in March of 2020. I have been working on it. We're getting there though. We're there It's been five years, isn't that crazy that was five years ago. It was like yesterday

I'll never forget it five years ago. And I remember when that episode came out people were freaking out Like what are you doing? What is Brett doing? This is bullshit. You're gonna get us all killed. It made perfect sense to me. Well, he was right clearly and yet still No apologies. No corrections except the government website The COVID-19 website is now up and this has to be because of Bobby Kennedy I hey, I mean the New York Times was oh, looks like this came from a lab. It's like, really? Well, the best part about it was they were like, we were misled. Yeah, you were misled by you, you fuckers.

You did it. Isn't that disgusting? And there are zero apologies, zero course corrections, and they unveil this information as though they are the purveyors of truth. Guys, we got a headline. This came from below. You're a little late. You're a half a decade late. That's right.

You know what's really interesting? We've been talking about this a lot lately that imagine if the roles were reversed and if podcasters were the ones yelling at everybody to go out and take these experimental shots and then they were experiencing all these complications and all these side effects. Mainstream news would be chastising us like how dare you give people the advice to go out and do that. You're responsible for these people having all these side effects and all these unnecessary deaths and all these people that would have had no problem with COVID. You encourage them to take this vaccine and they had strokes and they had this and they had that. They'd be calling for us to

get shut down? I actually did that. I did not know any better. And I was pitched a vaccine scientist. And I thought, like, oh, this is great. Yeah, come on the show. I didn't know the vaccine was gene therapy. I had no idea. So I knew it came from a lab. That made perfect sense to me.

And I was like, oh, well, this is very clear. It's not from a wet market. But someone reached out to a producer of mine and said, we've got this person who is a scientist who worked on the vaccine that wants to educate people. And I thought I was doing this major public service. I have had to apologize for that podcast and I've left it up. What was the scientist? I cannot, Joe, I cannot remember her name.

She was actually young and the reason I remember that she was in her 30s is because she told me, oh, this tech has been around for 30 years. And I thought, but you're only, you're like 35. No, no, no, we've been evolving this technology for 30 years and you see all of these trials for safety, it's just bureaucracy. I didn't understand what it meant to push something through that emergency use loophole

at the time. I didn't understand the difference of, oh, this is a dead pathogen and this is a live pathogen and we're worried about adjuvants, but this here, this is gene therapy. I didn't even begin to comprehend what that was, what it meant, or the fact that we would fuck around with something that was experimental. And the scariest part is I had been talking with a woman named Brian Dresden, who was injured during the AstraZeneca COVID-19

trials. And the NIH was studying all of the people that had been injured during the vaccine trials as they ruled out the vaccine with no concerns and lied about every component from it stays in the shoulder it's out of the body in 24 hours until you find out no it's coated in lipid nanoparticles and it can cross the blood-brain barrier oops now they're finding out that people can still produce spike protein because the injections for over 700 days and it can cross the blood brain barrier. Oops. Now they're finding out that people can still produce spike protein because of the injections

for over 700 days. And you can shed, supposedly. Yeah, you give it to your partner. It's insane. Crazy. Crazy. And now they're, I mean, I'm certainly not an expert in mRNA tech, but now we're fast tracking other vaccines that utilize the same technology.

And I know for one, I don't think I'll take an mRNA vaccine ever. It scares the crap out of me. Well, you've heard Brett Weinstein talk about the flaws and just the technology itself and that, you know, the fact that when it gets into your body, if it gets especially, you know, the thing is nobody aspirated, right? They didn't inject people and pull back to make sure they're not on a blood vessel. They just plunged it, including when they they did it live with Biden on television, which I don't think that was a vaccine. I said to this day, people are like, yo, well, you conspiracy theorist. Yeah, I think, yeah, I'm telling you right now. I think it's a conspiracy. I don't think they would take

a chance in injecting a fucking 80 year old man when you know that you have to like stay there at the clinic for 20 minutes in case you drop dead. Someone. Yeah. You know, my wife's friend, her friend's son actually had the COVID vaccine and the flu vaccine on the same day. He did supposedly stay for 15 minutes, got in the car, must have passed out or had a seizure, had a tree and died. He had a crazy reaction to it. I know I'm not trying to promote this anti-vax position, but... Well, that's not a vaccine. Exactly. Calling it a vaccine is fucking crazy. That's exactly it. It was a totally experimental gene therapy and what Brett was saying about it is if you don't aspirate you're shooting it right into a blood vessel.

If you're shooting it right into a blood vessel it could go to all sorts of areas of the body where the body's going to attack it like it's a disease, particularly the heart. And it's like this is why you get myocarditis because the heart doesn't, which is why you don't get heart cancer. Your heart just scars over. So people have these inflamed, enlarged hearts, and then diminished cardiovascular function. And he was talking about this way earlier than anybody else. And there, blood on his hands is killing grandmas. And the vaccine saved millions of lives.

People say that all the time. They've saved millions of lives. Like, how? If people still got COVID, not only that, they got more COVID than people that didn't get vaccinated. I am still having this exact debate actually with my mom who's like, but honey, it saved millions. And you know what's crazy?

Have you actually tried to Google that information because you can make a case for that based on what will come up on Google and she's like but look right here it says it saved millions of lives but you know it's only based on the idea that those people would have died if they didn't have COVID and the problem the problem is you're going to get COVID anyway so that data is bullshit not only that even when people got COVID, 99.07 of those fuckers lived. I just pulled that up. Yeah. Because I was trying to illustrate that point. I was like, do you realize that I think the percentage of mortality with this is like 1%? And when you look at it, it's like...

Less, considerably less. 0.03 all the way up till you get about 80 years old. Right. And then it's like, well, 1% or so, 1.5 maybe in 80 year olds are morbidly obese or severely autoimmune, you know, immunocompromised. When you have 330 million people in this country and then, you know, you look at that 0.3%, that starts looking like a lot of people. But those are just people that are on death's door.

That's the reality. Metabolically unhealthy, obese, diabetes, all sorts of problems, cancer leukemia, on chemotherapy. Those are the people that died. I remember when Bill Maher was talking about how it was people who, there was a study that came out of the CDC and forgive me because I don't remember the exact percentage, but it was upwards of 80% of the people who died or had severe cases of COVID were obese or overweight. And this is when you could be healthy at any size. That PsiOp was in full

effect. That must have drove you crazy. Oh, I was completely unraveling. People ask me, like, what happened? You were a good liberal. You're still a good liberal. If you go back to the old definition. I haven't changed. I go issue by issue with my friends.

And I'm like, you show me where I've shifted my position on any issue. Outside of Trump, I used to think he was Hitlerian and he was gonna round up all the gays and we were all fucked and none of that happened. I thought Russia, Russia, Russia, I thought that was real. So as new evidence came to light and I managed to survive his first term intact

along with my gay relationships. I somehow started to feel that maybe a lot of that was bullshit propaganda. But outside of that, not one of my positions has changed. Not one. And I find that arguably the right is more welcoming and more tolerant now. I can sit down and have a conversation with Matt Walsh and debate gay marriage in a civil fashion. And I ended up, again, like I bring up Bill because I work with Bill in some capacity on his podcast network. And I was having to defend him on Piers Morgan because he was sitting down with Trump and they called him a bigot and a racist and anti-science because he was sitting down with Trump and they called him a bigot and

a racist and anti-science because he was going to sit with Trump. Like, well, where's the outrage that he sits down with Newsom? I hate that guy way more. Piers Morgan was saying this or the guests? Not Piers. Piers was awesome. The guests. Piers' show is Maury Povich 2.0.

It's a better version of Maury Povich. I kind of love it though. And I love when I get to do it because you're allowed to act unhinged. You still have to make your points. Yeah. But it is theatrical. But sometimes I think when you are able to be so theatrical, it goes viral and the point that you're trying to make is arguably seen by more unless it's a platform of course like

yours but. Yeah, he does a good job of that. I just don't think it's a good way to discuss ideas. You're not wrong. But it's really good as far as going viral. It's great. You're not wrong about that. I still find it fun, though.

Because what you hold in for all those civil conversations where you're just biting your tongue, you're trying to communicate calmly, articulately. Here you can just unleash that, your hypocrisy is disgusting. Yes. Yes. It's everything I swallow in every conversation

with all my friends from California. And you can just let it rip and fricking tear into people because they started it. Yeah, they start the fight I don't like that. I don't like doing that. So I don't I don't I'm not interested in that. I get it I'm not interested in that kind of conflict. I don't want I don't want to talk to people like that I don't like it. I understand that you you are like a very gentle soul. I Watch you sometimes and you're just you're so not sometimes I watch you often and you're very gentle soul on it. Sometimes I think, God, toxic masculinity, like you're so, that whole notion, all of the men in your space tend to be far kinder and softer.

And it's the women that are savages. I mean, I happen to love, I love Megyn Kelly. I think she's brilliant, but goddamn, I never want to be on the wrong side of her. Yeah, she's ruthless. She'll rip your head off and like eat your heart. Do not fuck with that woman. So anyway, I think that some of the women in the space are genuinely more aggressive than the men. Well, do you think that's because they have to to get respect? Like, why do you think that is?

No, I don't think so. And I find that it's more respectable when you speak in the fashion that you do. And I've tried to really curtail that behavior throughout every other aspect of my life, personally and professionally, whether I'm fighting with a contractor on my house, I try to lower the octaves of my voice, or I'm trying to win somebody over in a debate. But I think, you know, Joe, honestly, I think because it's

entertaining. Yeah. And it's a competitive space. Yeah. I really think that's it. And it seems to work. So sort of. But why am I number one then because I don't do it Because that see that's like the counter argument there. Here would be my answer Because you can lick everything in the fridge and what I mean by that is you don't have a niche Anything and everything and it's fascinating and People tune in for it. They don't come here because they want to hear about politics, or they want to hear about health, or they want to hear about fucking aliens.

They come here because they want to hear about all of it, and they want to hear what you think about all of it. So it's not really interesting when someone else does it, because they're not there to see what that individual thinks about the subject matter. So when I turn into Megyn Kelly, it's like, or tune in, it's because I want... Don't turn into her. No, no, no, I'm not. I'm not.

Fuck no, dude. I'm not messing with her. She's a lovely person and she's been nothing but lovely with me, but I... I'm sure. As I mentioned, I am not interested in being on her bad side. However, when I tune in, it's not because I want to see her reaction or her opinion on something. It's because I want to learn what is the counter argument to deporting this guy, Kilmar Obrego Garcia. I'm like, okay, the steel man that argument for me and then tune into something

else and try to disseminate what the truth is and she's a constitutional attorney. So I feel like I'm getting great information. With you, you're not just learning about something, but you're also curious what you think about it. If you're going to go, ah, bullshit, or if you're like, if you do the, wow, you know, you want to say what you think about it. Yeah, I just think we could all do with a little less yelling at each other. You're totally right. I just don't think it's good for anybody. Every time I've engaged in it, I feel bad

for the rest of the day. Even if I win, yeah, I don't feel good. I just feel like, ugh, I don't like that. I don't like it. What if they deserved it? I think you should be nice until it's time to not be nice and generally that's like extreme violence. That's my feeling. That's my feeling, you know? Like be nice up until you're literally trying to incapacitate a person.

That's fair. I feel like... I don't think we have to do that. And I think the only time you have to do that is when someone's completely psychotic 99.999 percent of the time you're better off serving You and that person better by just being nice and calm and making a point in an intelligent fashion You're absolutely right not being married to your ideas either Also, you know not like taking an opposition to your ideas as an opposition to you as a being You know, it's these are just ideas like if someone thinks that you're incorrect if someone thinks I'm incorrect I'm like, well, tell me why what do you what do you think? Why do you think that? Where'd you come to this conclusion? What it was? What was the tipping point for you? Like, what is it?

Like tell me what it is. That's rare, though. I was just actually talking to Mike Rowe about that. Why do we hold on so fastidiously to our dogma? And honestly, because it doesn't feel right to have somebody say, I told you so. I will do the mea culpa, and I have a million times. But it is certainly more rare. How often do you see a walk back or a course correct? Not often.

And I know that when people wag their finger at me, are you happy? This is what you voted for. You want to defend things that arguably you may agree with them on. And I'm like, don't do it. Just do you see their point? If so, acknowledge you see their point? If so, acknowledge you see their point. And then I still feel the need to play the lesser evil game, even when they're right. They're still wrong because when I weigh out,

you know, the choices I had, even though you're right on this issue, you know, I'm right about my choice ultimately because more things went the way I wanted them to than the way I didn't. It takes a lot of ego strength to admit where you're wrong and I just don't think a lot of people have that and there is a tribalism with everything whether it's workout trends, diets for god's sake, I mean we've seen this kind of dogma

in health and wellness for years. It's no fun to say you were wrong and in some cases it can have professional repercussions for people. Sure. Did you experience any professional repercussions when you're pushing back against this healthy at any size stuff? How much time do you have on that one? Well let's go into it because that to me was so fascinating that the concept of fat shaming, which look I don't think you should hurt anybody's feelings, but I think at a certain point in time, sometimes hurting someone's feelings causes actions.

And hurting someone's feelings with the truth. And you can give the truth to someone lovingly. You know, you can say, look, I care about you. This is why I want to tell you you're a fat fuck. Like you really are. You're disgusting and you need to lose weight and you've, you're fully addicted to food and you don't understand what it's doing to your body and you're being lied to by all these other people like these fat doctors like there's some lady in the UK who calls herself a fat

doctor Mike great lady you're just overwhelmed with inflammation I could just see it looking at you this is crazy that you're giving this advice out when you're you can't walk up a hill there's no way like you're giving this advice out when you're, you can't walk up a hill, there's no way. Like you're so unhealthy. And this idea that shaming people is worse than telling them the truth that's gonna make them feel bad, maybe temporarily, but you could do it with kindness. And then that person can make choices that will be, and then you encourage them,

like I'm so glad you changed your diet. I'm so glad you cut out this and cut out that and now you're doing well and you've decided to walk 10,000 steps a day and you've decided to start exercising a little bit, you know? This episode is brought to you by DoorDash. This Mother's Day, why give mom only flowers when you can give her flowers plus a real break? For a limited time, use code JOE50 to get 50% off up to $15 value when you spend $15 or more on local florists, convenience, grocery,

and retail stores on DoorDash. And starting May 9th, Mother's Day weekend, your flower order will unlock credit toward select gifts that'll take cooking, planning, and more off mom's plate. Make Mother's Day special with DoorDash. Terms apply. You've given me a lot to tackle here. So let's start with the PSYOP component

of healthy in any size. This is a big food narrative. This has been proven. Even the friggin'- Explain big food narrative what you mean by that okay so big food put simply hired a bunch of registered dietitians to co-opt this concept of intuitive eating and I'm dead-ass serious yeah with hashtags like derail the shame and they paid them and they put out all of

these posts and went to all of these conventions and promoted the narrative that you can be healthy at any size. And it's just a flat out lie. It is a flat earther conversation. It is pseudo science at its best. There's no truth behind that. There is a robust amount of data that show us being obese is associated with like 170 comorbidities.

This is a non-factor. It's been debunked. We know this for a fact. So when that happens, what they're doing is essentially placating someone who already feels, now I can attack what's going on, or address rather, what's going on with an individual who is that size. And it is largely psychological once you are past the point of dad bod, you know what I mean?

Like, oh, I work three jobs, life beat me down, it's a food desert and I'm 40 pounds overweight and I've let myself go. This is a different animal. When you're dealing with somebody who is a 50 plus pounds overweight, there is a psychological component. So the first thing we need to do is make them aware that there is a problem without question. But you can do it without shame, giving them facts of, listen, this is unhealthy. And because you are such a valuable individual, I want you to understand this because only from a place of feeling truly worthy are you able to facilitate a change. You don't work out because you hate your body. You work out because

you love it. So it doesn't need to be as shaming. There's no shame there, to be honest, Joe. I know that people claim there is, because you pointed out this vulnerability or this flaw in the person, but we all have flaws and vulnerabilities. People who are overweight simply wear them. So it's easier to judge, right?

So by educating them first, and then, without question, I like to give people, or when I was able to do the work, hands-on, that rock bottom moment, because they are overweight because it is providing them with something extraordinarily significant. And I can give you examples should you need them, but I promise you that one time or another people turn to addictions, in this case food,

because it means their psychological survival. So put simply the most obvious example would be a person who was incested, molested, raped, put on weight to desexualize. That's just one example of many, but it's easy to illustrate the point. So whatever this thing is providing them is the part that's so hard to let go of. Because unconsciously it's terrifying. And you got to first show them this is why we need to change. And then you got to give them that path towards change. And you got to make it harder. You got to make them feel the pain.

Could be physically, it could be psychologically, but it doesn't have to be shameful, of the way they've been living, so that the work and the sacrifice associated with change is less painful than continuing the negative and destructive habits. You don't have to shame them. I know what the message seems like it is, but it really isn't.

Well, the whole term fat shaming is pretty recent, right? Yes, very. Let's get right back to when I was just... You asked me what I lost. Intuitive eating is a fascinating phrase. And the idea that this is by the same people that used to be in charge of tobacco. This is what's is what's really crazy These are the RJ Reynolds and these tobacco companies bought all these Fast-food processed food companies and they use the same tactics that they use with that to push Terrible foods on people. Well, they literally have a team of multidisciplinary scientists that work around the clock to figure out how to get people to Not eat just one and they put it in a commercial.

It's like literally in broad daylight. Look what we're doing to people. Bet you can't eat just one. Yes one. But what they're doing is they are exploiting somebody's psychology and they're hijacking their biology with this food without question. And this is why you have seen rates of obesity skyrocket from what 70s when it was like 5% of the adult population was overweight or obese to 74%

we're all is it quantum leap in genetics that's that's a big pharma Psyop of like no no this no, no. This is all genetic. You're genetically obese. Well, what happened? I've never seen such a quantum leap in genetics. How come we were genetically obese in the 70s? Like what was that tipping point, if you will, that created the cascade of obesity

over the last five decades? Of course, it's exactly what you're talking about. Yeah, it's ingredients and food. It's really simple. That and also how they engineer the environment and you're surrounded by it. You can't escape it. Remember the days when you weren't allowed to have food at a bookstore? And now every friggin bookstore has a cafe. Has a Starbucks. Yeah, with the cookies in it.

600-calorie drink. You are surrounded. There is nowhere you can go right now where food is not omnipresent, in particular this crappy food. And they generally do it through government contracts and subsidies. So it's at your schools, your hospitals, anywhere you go, you will find this garbage food. So even if you have that moment of willpower,

which is arguably this fleeting moment of bravado, if you're constantly surrounded by it, you will give in. Managing your environment is a large part of helping someone be successful. It's a band-aid, right, if you're dealing with sexual abuse, for example, but controlling the environment is definitely a component in helping them.

You can't control the environment. Can't control the them. You can't control the environment, right? Can't control the narrative. You can't control what's in the food and it's all by design. It's not just the crap in the food. It's how they control the narrative around it and how they engineer the environment and how they systematically shut down the people that point it out as fat shamers, for example, or racists. Yeah. It's another big one.

Yeah. It's a big one or transphobes or. It's another big one. Yeah, it's a big one. Or transphobes, or fill in the blank. But it's fascinating to me that hospitals fall into this. A friend of mine was visiting his friend who has prostate cancer. And this guy is in the hospital being treated for cancer. And then he went to look at what they're

feeding him in the hospital. And they were feeding him applesauce, which is loaded with high fructose corn syrup, apple juice or orange juice, which is not even juice, it's concentrate, it's all bullshit. And then some kind of a fucking sandwich, which is made out of this processed wheat bread. Yeah, it's stable, it probably has,

in that meal alone, 100 plus chemicals, I think I'm being conservative. Yeah, at a hospital. It has to do with government contracts Yeah, but it's so crazy that hospitals their diets and hospitals are co-opted I can't even my kids who I know will be watching this so I love you guys. It's okay, but They they stopped packing their lunches And I was like guys

Why are we not packing our lunches anymore? And I would watch all the crap that I would buy go bad in the pantry. And my son ratted my daughter out and he's like, she's eating breakfast at school. And I was like, what are you talking about? He's like, the sugar cereal? Who's having that at school? And I was like, what? What are you talking about? Even my kids who know better. But isn't that a rebellion against mom though Which kids definitely do like my youngest daughter. She jokes around about she's like ooh seed oils She'll have salad dressing with seed oil and she like mocks me and like okay you eat whatever you want But just know what it is

They I honestly think the kids know what it is And I try to give them enough freedom now at these ages, you know 13 to 15 To make some of their own decisions. So not everything is is a pushback But I truly think there is an addictive component. Oh for sure and and she just it's like I'm so good at home I don't mean to associate. They're not good, but I eat well at home, let's put it that way. And you know, just at school. I'm just going to do this at school. And the problem obviously is when she goes off to college, I won't be able to control the environment at home. And I'm like, honey, okay, hold on. There's a, forgive me, there's a like 20 year old influencer named Bad Baby,

I think Joe she I know this okay. She saw this girl. That's the lady from dr. Phil. Catch me outside catch me outside So she saw this girl, but she was like nine and has followed bad, baby bad, baby now has cancer What I believe so and real? According to my daughter exactly the point though. That's exactly the point. And so now I can say to my kids, this isn't just mom's generation, which how come there's something else to look at. My mom is 76. None of the public figures in her generation got cancer. You didn't see Susan Sarandon or Scorned Weaver or Meryl Streep, none of them got cancer. But in my generation, it's like Maria Menounos,

Christina Abelgate, something's going on with Angelina Jolie, Kate Middleton. In my generation, the canary is dead in the coal mine. It's not even a question of the negative impact. If we're not looking at statistics, if we're just looking from an observational perspective, it's in the news every single day someone's dealing with cancer. Olivia Munn, now you're seeing 20-year-olds deal with this.

And I was able to point to that to my daughter and say, this is the shit that I am talking about. She's five years older than you. What does that lady have? Does it say? Yeah, she's claimed that she's got a form of leukemia I believe, but people, yeah. They debate, they doubt her. Yeah, for sure they doubt her. Well, she's a little bit kooky, right? Sure. There's still, you still can point to the fact, even if it's not bad baby who may be lying.

I'm not sure. I like how you're using that name, bad baby. Is it bad baby? Bad, what the, I said bad bunny the other day and my kids are like no that's the rapper. She says she insisted she'd been cleared for surgery. She has no regrets about her cosmetic tweaks. What does a cosmetic tweak have to do with leukemia? I don't know. I think people are just- They're not going to perform plastic surgery on a cancer patient.

What? She's getting plastic surgery? What is this article about? Go to the source. Look at the chronic myeloid leukemia piece because that's the part I know about. She, oh, breaks silence on claims she lied about having cancer after being slammed for vaping. Oh God, did she lie about it? I was just showing you that. Go back up. Go back up please. 21, it says currently battling chronic, how do you say that, myeloid leukemia. Criticized for getting cosmetic surgery while battling disease, which is pretty crazy. Is that really true?

That's the part that... She underwent plastic surgery and challenged rival Alabama Barker to a physical fight, all while battling leukemia. Apparently Alabama Barker did not show up for that fight because my daughter was very disappointed by that. What, they were going to meet somewhere and actually fight? They were supposed to meet somewhere? An actual fight? They were supposed to meet I think in Calabasas and throw down.

Oh boy, the Calabasas throw down. The classic. Of course. It used to be an old west shootout, now it's a Calabasas throw down between influencers. So there's a hair pulling and all kinds of stuff. I want to tell you with certainty is that the rate of early onset cancer diagnosis in people 18 to 49 has gone up 79% over the past two decades. So if in fact bad baby is being untruthful and deceitful,

those statistics are real. Yes, those statistics are real and including the big leap since the COVID vaccine was rolled out. You know, I don't have any information on that. There was a doctor that was on the Tucker Carlson show the other day that was saying he's seeing pancreatic cancer in kids for the first time ever in his career.

Said, my entire career I never saw pancreatic cancer in children. Okay, I want to play devil's advocate to that argument and simply say the statistic that I just cited I believe came out in 2019. So this is pre-COVID. Oh, I'm not doubting that diet and environmental factors. I think there's a host of different things going on.

For sure, there's pesticides and herbicides. That's a major factor. When you look at the fact that 90-plus percent of people have Roundup in their blood, that's crazy. You know, that stuff is linked to chemical warfare from Vietnam. It has a historical connection to Agent Orange. Really?

Yeah. Google it, Jamie, check that. But yeah, because I wrote about it in a book. I know. That should alarm you. Glyphosate is everywhere. It's so spooky. This episode is brought to you by Simply Safe.

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your money back. Plus you can get 50% off your new SimpliSafe system with professional monitoring and your first month free. Just go to SimpliSafe.com slash Rogan. That's SimpliSafe.com slash Rogan for 50% off and your first month free. there's no safe like simply safe and other countries won't even allow its use nope and we spray it on everything not only that we have like corns genetically engineered to be immune to glyphosate so they could just spray this shit out of it and then you eat that corn and you're getting glyphosate residue you're just

getting it and it's in your blood it It's in it's in everything. It's in everything. It's in rice water We yeah, it's in well, it's in the runoff. So it gets in the fish, you know most Freshwater fish have toxic levels of lead and or heavy metals in them like most Most freshwater fish you really probably shouldn't be eating. I knew big predatory fish Yes, that's in the ocean But that's heavy metals from the ocean, which is also from us, but that's mercury, but there's toxic levels of heavy metals and pollutants and you know forever chemicals that are in freshwater fish Because all that shit that's in the ground gets into lakes

Right all that shit that you know all the runoff all that stuff gets into ground gets into lakes. All that shit that, you know, all the runoff, all that stuff gets into streams, gets into creeks, gets into rivers. You know, we watched a video when we had Will Harris from White Oak Pastures on the podcast, and he showed the difference between his regenerative farm that doesn't use any pesticides or herbicides and his neighbor's farm.

And there's a, literally a dividing line in the river where you can see the runoff from his neighbor's farm turns the entire river brown. And it's legal. It's legal to pollute. Of course. Because it's industrial farming. Exactly. But it's crazy. It's just like all that industrial fertilizer, herbicides, and pesticides are running off because the topsoil's dead.

So all that stuff is running off as soon as it rains and it runs right into the river and you can see a dividing line. There's like clear water on one side and this disgusting brown dirty water on the right side. Have you seen where it runs from the river into the ocean and creates dead zones that you can see from space? No oxygen. Yeah. Nothing but jellyfish for miles? Well, I have a friend of mine who was a yoga instructor and he's from Argentina and he came

to America and no one told him, he was in LA, no one told him don't surf after it rains. So he was surfing and he didn't understand that all the runoff from all the streets goes into the ocean. He got horribly sick. And, you know, he was bedridden. And he was like, what the fuck is going on with the ocean? Yeah. Having grown up in California and spending a lot of time in the water, I have known this

for years and now I can't even imagine, the way in California who would dare to get in the ocean at this point considering all of the crap from the fires. That's a great irony. That's my favorite. Oh, we're not doing any forestry mitigation because of the environment and yet these fires have rolled back all of those protections by something like 20 years Yeah, is it just that grounds ruined forever destroyed and then pours into the ocean twice the size of Manhattan Ruin ground all those people that had electric cars those cars those batteries all that shit It's all of the plastics and the fiberglass and carbon fiber, all that stuff, the tires, all that stuff is now in the soil.

Good luck having a garden. Good luck. You want to try to grow plants? Good luck. I was talking to, I don't know if you've ever seen this gentleman. He's really great. He wrote a book called Eat to Beat Disease named Dr. William Lee and he called me after the fire because I was out there visiting my mom. He's like, where are you? Are you in California? And I was

like, I am at the moment. In fact, I'm right here by Palisades. And he said, Jill, do you remember 9-11 dust? That whole thing with all that. I was like, of course I remember. Send me a bunch of articles. And he's like, you gotta get out of there. Get your mom out of there. He's like, it gets in your kids clothes when they're on their way to school. People, he goes, we're going to be talking about this 10 years from now, the result of the toxins in this fire and how they've affected people's health. No doubt. No doubt. Crazy. And it happens twice a year.

Yeah. At least. Oh, I was evacuated three times when I lived in LA. Oh, I was evacuated three times when I lived in LA. In fact, I lost two homes, one that I owned in 2018 and one that I sold in 21 just actually burned. It's nuts. It's crazy. Yeah.

And nothing, I mean, what they did during the fire was just so insane. The fact that the reservoir was empty, oh, we need to make a lid for it. We didn't get around to it. For over a year and it hadn't even begun There was so many things wrong there that I could literally like a funding Jillian. They don't have enough money Mike Schellenberger talk about this. Yes, that will make your blood boil. Yeah Schellenberger's great. I love him He's like we knew about this for seven days with the winds and we could have You know, we could have borrowed

Firefighters from all different states and this and that and had them position. Oh my god knowing knowing between Mike Schellenberger and Corolla Whipping me into a frenzy about this I literally think I've like popped 10 blood vessels because so much of this could have been mitigated and wasn't. And in fact, Gavin Newsom, my favorite politician. He's my favorite podcaster. I wish we would get back to it. He stopped. I don't know why he stopped. Oh, did he stop? I didn't know that.

Yeah, the fucking show was horrible. Oh, God. Everybody was mocking him. It was so bad for him He kept he had this idea of reaching across the aisle So he reached across the aisle and it gets guys like Charlie Kirk and Steve Bannon on and they eat his lunch And so and people are thinking his party like what the fuck are you doing? You're making us look horrible So he bails on his podcast was his last Oh, he's back. Yeah. No, we weren't gonna get that lucky. I don't think so. Oh Rahm Emanuel Okay, that's real now. He's with his own side Scott Galloway pretty much his own side. Yeah. Yeah, yeah

Anthony Scaramucci he hates Trump. That's a good move. Yep, Ezra Klein. Okay, that makes sense So it's not that it's gone away. It's just that it's so horrible. Nobody's watching it. And no one is even talking about it anymore. This is Gavin Newsom. But it was so funny because that was the response after the election. They said, well, podcasts influenced the election. So we'll start our own podcast. Your podcast is going to make people even more inclined to not vote for you. My favorite was we need our own version of Joe Rogan. I had love when you, I, I remember when you, you loved Bernie. You were like, I like the guy. I, you had Joe Rogan. Joe was on your side. And I,

that's the one thing with the left is they purge people from the party. Because it's a cult. It really is like leftism, not being an actual progressive. Like an actual progressive is a person who's kind, who wants people to just exist and be yourself and live amongst us. We should all have social safety net and laws that like are kind and compassionate. We should look at the fact that we are an incredible first-world nation and we should like roll out the red carpet to all the people that live here and try to make it a better place for everybody. That's real progressivism and then it morphed into this like let perverts get into the women's room, let men compete in women's sports. Like

and ignore the fact that some people are fucking psychotic and give them a blank check as long as they just say they're a woman. Like, oh, you're a woman. Go ahead, carte blanche, get in. Not only that, but treat them better than you treat women themselves because they're actually more oppressed than women. So that's the oppression hierarchy. So they get the gold medal in the Oppression Olympics.

It's bananas. It's bananas. It is bananas. It really is. I can't that's the stuff where you look and you say I was never for any of this. Yeah, if you I'm a libertarian, I'm for personal freedoms. Of course, if you want to change your gender as an adult, that's absolutely up for up to you. And I would fight for your right to do that and live with dignity but when your personal choices

Impact the rights and the freedoms of others. This is a far more nuanced conversation far more Especially when you're dealing with kids. Oh, that's a whole different. This is work. It's really crazy. That's evil. There's this This is where it gets really crazy. That's evil. There's this hilarious conversation between this woman who is like, she looks like she's probably in her seventies and this person's asking her if you had a granddaughter, would you support them taking puberty blockers? She's like, absolutely. Absolutely.

I think it's insane to try to force a girl to go through puberty if she's really a boy and this that would you Would you allow them to get a tattoo? Oh, I think that's permanent No irony Seconds later no recognition of what she's saying. No like tattoos can be removed lady. I know yeah Those off have you noticed though? They really don't understand it. No. And I got in a conversation with Jessica Tarlov about this and she's like, oh, but you know, they, they, the kids go through extensive therapy. I'm like, that's not true, Jessica. Or the concept that it's reversible. People

believe that's not true. Exactly. Not always it not true, but puberty blockers are the exact same thing they give to sex criminals. When you have a sexual molester that is forced to be on sterilization drugs, that's exactly what they give to young boys. It sterilizes kids. Yeah, it's the same thing. Takes away sexual function. If you interrupt puberty in the stage 10 or 2, and the reason I bring this up is because they'll tell you it's reversible.

No. But here's the thing. So I actually went through this exercise with somebody and I was like, show that to me. And they went on chat GPT and it's like, yes, this is reversible. And the argument is that should you have a child that starts puberty at 7 and you use puberty blockers, it's very rare, it can happen. And they do it strategically to slow that down for a child and help them develop at a normal pace.

It doesn't sterilize them or make them incapable of having an orgasm. So the distinction that's key is when you block purity at the stage of 10 or two, which is arguably the appropriate age that purity is meant to begin, then you've got sterilization, you've got an inability to ever have an orgasm, it affects bone development, it affects

brain development. It's terrible for them. They're friggin children, their body is not developed properly. Nobody understands that. They don't when they make that argument. They're told The parting line of if you make them go through this they'll kill themselves and it turns out that the data doesn't bear out to prove That either but they're not only that it goes the other way. The data goes the other way There's 25% more likely to commit suicide suicidal ideation depression anxiety All those things ramp up once they've transitioned. Because they realize like they've made a horrible mistake and they've been influenced by these

crazy people. They want to use them as like virtue flags. They want to use children as virtue flags. It's fucking insane. They also shouldn't be allowed to call them a different thing than when they call them chemical castration drugs for sex offenders, yet they call them puberty blockers. And gender-affirming care.

Gender-affirming care. Isn't that lovely? Yeah, it's fucking barbaric and bananas. And we're going to look back at it the same way we looked at lobotomies. We performed lobotomies for, I think, roughly around 50 or 60 years for, I think they stopped it in 1967. I think that's when they stopped the last lobotomies. And then they realized, like, oh my God, this is a terrible thing to do. But they did it for so fucking long. And this is the same thing that's going to happen with this whole gender-affirming care

thing for minors. It's crazy. Kids don't know what's going on. You have children, you know what it's like. They go through phases and cycles, they become tomboy's and boys play with dolls. Like who cares? By the way, a lot of those boys that want to transition, it turns out they're just gay. And if you just leave them and let them be gay,

and a lot of my gay friends fucking hate it, because they're like, you're trying to race gay people, you're trying to say that all these gay people are really in the wrong gender. Gosh, I've never thought of it from that angle. I have seen the financial component though. Oh, that's a big problem. It's a multi-billion dollar business. That's where it's evil.

And when you look at who's funding this stuff, I remember, my god, I used to go to the friggin' human rights campaign dinners and donate, you know, when you're fighting for gay marriage and I'm a good liberal. And now, when you go to their page, if they've got a score, and forgive me, I can't remember the friggin' name of it, but there's a score where they rate different medical institutions on how they provide gender-affirming care. And if they get a bad score, it impacts, I think, how much grant money they can get. There's a page for this, I believe it's through the HRC on their website, and when you look at who funds it, Pfizer.

Like, oh, that's not at all surprising. And one drug, I think Lupron is almost a billion dollar a year business. Awfully, well, forgive me, it's been a minute since I've looked into this, but I'm in the zone for sure. Yeah, terrifying stuff. Well, it's just the money thing is so scary because when money gets attached to anything, all ethics and morals go out the window and they just try to make as much money from these things as is human

Humanly possible and they've always done that Yeah, they've always done that across the board with virtually everything and we're surprised when it happens with children I don't know you and I are surprised But I think most people are not awake at all about it No, no most people are not awake at all about it. No. Most people aren't awake at all. And if it doesn't affect them personally, they feel like it's important to espouse these beliefs because these beliefs show that you're a good progressive. Yes, 100%. Yeah, it's like people's minds have been co-opted by, you know, I don't necessarily believe

in demons and angels. I don't believe that. But if you were the devil, like, wouldn't money be your most valuable tool to get people to do absolutely atrocious evil things that are gonna ruin their lives? Money is like the devil's playground. It's like where the devil can convince good people to do things and then you use words like gender-affirming care and you know you can you can kind of like change the narrative but the end result is really just you're profiting off of people's confusion and you're doing so in a way where you're sacrificing it's literal child sacrifice those children that

wind up committing suicide because they went through this gender-affirming care and are horribly depressed and they don't have breasts anymore and they're so confused and they can't have children anymore. And they just wind up killing themselves and this is sacrifice. This is like a form of child sacrifice for financial gain. I mean, you're not sacrificing them to the gods or to demons. You're doing it to money. And it's really wild that we can't see that. We can't like look at all

the data and see and understand like the complex interaction of human beings and people that around them that influence them and you know that they get encouragement and then they get positive feedback and then they show up at school wearing lipstick and everyone's like you're amazing. You're amazing now Bobby. Now that you're Roberta everyone's like you're amazing you're amazing now Bobby now that you're Roberta like now you're amazing you used to be some guy that got stuffed into a locker and now your girl is incredible and you're you're giving them this positive feedback you know and it's money and it's the people are profiting off of it it's fucking insane and it's so wild to watch it all play out and realize like we are so vulnerable to influence

Human beings are so I mean, this is why cults exist This is why people are willing to be religious martyrs and blow themselves up and which by the way Like why do they do that? Why do they get kids to wear suicide vests because you can't convince a 55 year old guy to do it. 55 guy with a job and a family and a lot of you know interests and good friends. Tough to get him to wear that suicide vest. You know, he's like what what am I doing? I'm going to a mall. What the fuck? No, why am I doing that? I'm going to heaven and I'm going to get 72 virgins. Can you?

Can you show me these virgins? Like it's a fucking I'm gonna get 72 virgins. Can you? Can you show me these virgins like it's a fucking? What happened to them? How do these poor virgins wind up in heaven? Just getting raped by this 55 year old guy who blew himself up like this is fucking insane I know we can't get adults to believe that but you can get children to believe that so we don't want to like take that same ability to influence and then just transfer it over to children. And I'm not quite sure why the human mind is so fragile. I've asked myself that so many

times. And this is going to sound totally off piste here, but you brought up demons and what have you. And I just watched that. I didn't read the book. So forgive me. But I watched the documentary on the book, Chaos, on Netflix. Oh yeah, I read the book. Okay. Are you not completely... I cannot wrap my head around how Manson got seemingly normal people to commit this kind of murder. And when you listen to these women talk about it, they're like, and then I stabbed her 15 times and I felt the knife go into her hip bone.

And she looked at me and said, I'm dead. And like no emotion. What did you do to this woman's mind? And you can't say she's an outlier because he was able to convince the group of people. I cannot understand this kind of fragility. Well that's complex. What is that? That's MK Ultra. Is it not, is it that? Oh yeah, no, no, 100 percent. That's Jolly West. Jolly West was the CIA operative who visited Manson in jail. He's also the guy that visited Jack Ruby after he shot Kennedy.

Then Jack Ruby starts saying, I'm seeing demons and the Jews are on fire. Jack Ruby didn't have a history of mental illness like that, like complete psychotic breakdowns, but he did after Jolly West visited him in jail. Yeah, there's real documentation about those experiments. One of them is Operation Midnight Climax. So the CIA was operating brothels and they were operating brothels where they would have two-way mirrors and they would be behind the

mirrors and these prostitutes who were working for the CIA would give the Johns LSD and then they would observe them. This is all documented. I do know, I knew a little bit about MKUltra, obviously, and that they were using psychedelics to influence people and try to gain mind control. LSD in particular, yeah. OK, so here's my question, though. This is what I find so fascinating.

Do you think that the LSD simply accelerated that mental vulnerability or the ability to warp someone's mind because when you tell people now you're going to perform a sex change on a child, they think that's a good idea. And I'll tie it back to one thing that also is seemingly unrelated, but everyone's outraged about RFK. He's not a doctor.

Oh my God, he's trying to get to the root of autism and he's misguided about it. Where was your outrage when Xavier Becerra, who's not a doctor, wanted to remove all age limits for sex changes on kids, whether surgery or not, the medicalization component that we talked about? Like that to me is a group psychosis. I wonder, like to get an

adult to, I'm like, where's your outrage and your concern about this? Cause this is bat shit crazy. And nobody said a word. Nobody cared. It went completely under the radar. And I'm just wondering if the ability to capture someone's mind in the way that they did through these CIA studies, did LSD simply accelerate a vulnerability that's already pre-existing and you're watching the brainwashing of people go on over the course of decades? Because if you said this to a person, arguably in Obama's first term,

when he ran on gay marriage, that you were gonna run sex changes on children in the year 2024, people would have lost their friggin' mind. Right. So it's just a complete, it is, it's, they must have been brainwashed though. Yeah, it is brainwashing.

And cults, we all know that cults are real, right? We all know about the Manson family, we all know about Jim Jones, we all know about cults. And we know that human beings are very vulnerable to group influence. Now when you have someone that's actually being trained by people that are psychologists and understand influence and then also trained in using the implantation of LSD on these people, one of the things that Mansa would do is he

would pretend to take LSD and then he would give it to them and then influence them while they were under the influence and he was sober and this is this was all learned through the Harvard LSD studies which by the way created the Unabomber. Ted Kaczynski was a part of the Harvard LSD studies. How do I not know this? I know he was a genius. Yeah well he had there was a bunch of things wrong with him. First of all, when he was a baby, he was severely ill, and they put him in some sort of an infirmary, and he didn't have any human touch for months. For months.

They just, like when he cried and he's in his crib, they left him there. His brother talked about it. There's a documentary on Netflix about him, and his brother talked about it. There's a documentary on Netflix about him, and his brother talked about, like, even before the Harvard LSD studies, he was, like, really fucked up. Really fucked up. Complete lack of empathy. He was a sociopath. Yeah, complete sociopath as a young man. And it would express itself when he would experience rejection from women. He would have, would have violent reactions to that rejection and write them horrific letters and torture

them and yell at them. Oh, Jesus. It's so scary. Yeah. And then he goes through the Harvard LSD studies, which a part of his particular studies was humiliation. So he would be under the influence and they would humiliate him and they would abuse him and try to get him to a certain state of mind. So then this guy goes off to Berkeley becomes a

becomes a professor and his whole idea is to just make enough money so that he can implement this program. Here's what's crazy about his ideas. He's kind of right. Okay. So he's kind of right and he he's kind of right, and he thinks that technology is going to replace human beings. Like, he sees this through all of his acid trips, that human beings are going to be replaced. And we probably are.

We probably are going to be replaced by AI. We probably are going to be replaced by synthetic life that we create, and we're facilitating that with our reliance on technology. So he decides he's going to live off the grid in a cabin and kill all the people that are involved in technology. A very twisted, distorted reaction to this thing that we're recognizing as being real in 2025.

That we are experiencing, we have AI on our phones now. Right. You know, we're constantly being monitored, we're constantly being surveilled. Your rights are getting very murky because all of your data is being given away. Everybody knows everything about you. It's easy to influence people with algorithms and also with bots and it's being used for political discourse. It's being used for so many different things. Essentially, you know, we don't want to think that cults can be half the country, but for sure it can be half the country, it can be the whole country.

If you live under Sharia law, it's the whole country. The whole country believes that women have to cover every part of their body except their eyeballs, you know, and this is this kind of thinking thinking we're very vulnerable to group think and especially group think that's being Like intentionally manipulated also and then being done with psychedelic drugs now They did it during the Manson era because they were trying to stop the anti-war movement So they were trying to like the hippies and all these people that were like hey make love not war right Like we have to change the association that the general public has with these people because too many people are joining up with them.

And so what they did was they got the Manson family and they got them to commit these horrific crimes and every time Charles Manson would get arrested, he would get let out of jail. I mean, he was violating parole left and right and the cops that arrested him were all being told when they were interviewed, they would say, this is above my pay grade. They're telling me that I have to let them go. So they would be contacted by someone from the State Department or wherever and saying let them go. I saw that somewhat alluded to in the documentary of like, well, you know, when the one guy,

I'm going to botch this, never mind, bottom line is they generally alluded to that, but because they didn't read the book, there wasn't that kind of in-depth takeaway at all. Yeah, unfortunately, the documentaries only look like, what, like 90 minutes? It's very short. Yeah, the book is... And it draws a connection, but it doesn't prove out its points. And I couldn't quite understand, like, well, where's the proof of it until you just explained it.

Tom O'Neill, the guy who wrote that book that book is he's been on the podcast before he was my friend Greg Fitzsimmons neighbor in New York and He was writing this 20 plus years So Greg was his friend when it was happening like when when he started so what he was doing is he was writing An article I think it was for Vanity Fair or Variety, I forget, but the article was on the anniversary of the Manson killings. And so it was supposed to be just like, hey, this is the anniversary, just write an article about the facts.

So he starts going into the facts of the case and he's like, whoa, wait a minute. And so he starts investigating and he can't investigate enough and then he gets in trouble because like the deadlines passed And then he gets a book deal and the deadline passes on that He's just completely obsessed with getting to the bottom of this and absorbing more and more information and documenting it all He's got enough for many books and he I think I believe he's writing another book right now Absolutely insane. You know that the huge irony is that these drugs, as we both know, these drugs can save lives.

And I was just talking to Callie and Brigham, who are involved in the Texas Ibogaine Initiative. And what's so fascinating is- Very different drug. OK, but what about psilocybin? Like when I talk to... Also very different drug. Is it really? Very very different drug. Yeah, LSD is very different. So they didn't use psilocybin or Ibogaine or any of that stuff? I thought they did. No, not with that, but perhaps you could if you did it correctly, if you knew how to manipulate people. Like Jolly West was

well versed in Manipulation. I mean this was the whole part of the CIA's program and that by the way It's not just the CIA its other intelligence agencies. Mi5 was doing it the the the UK studies on psychedelics you could see the videos of British troops on acid. They dosed up these British troops from, I want to say it's the 1950s. Do you know that video, Jamie? You know the video. We've played it before. But these guys are, you know, with full fatigues, just laughing, leaning up against trees, laughing.

They gave them malice. To what end? Well, they want to find out what it does. They thought it was a truth serum. Turns out it's not. Like well, what can it do? And then so they used people to try to figure out what can be done with it. So this is 25 minutes.

Let's put your headphones on real quick. The first effects of the drug became apparent. 25 minutes later. The drug became apparent. The men began to relax and to giggle. But this man was more seriously affected and had to be removed from the exercise. After 35 minutes, one of the radio operators had become incapable of using his set, and the efficiency of the rocket launcher team was also very impaired.

Ten minutes later, the attacking section had lost all sense of urgency, noticed the bunching and indecision as they enter a wood occupied by the enemy. Almost immediately, the section commander tried to use a map to find the location of troop headquarters, and a prisoner's escort had to have the way pointed out to him, although it was in plain sight, 700 yards away over open country. Fifty minutes after taking the drug, radio communication had become difficult, although it was in plain sight 700 yards away over open country. 50 minutes after taking the drug, radio communication had become difficult, if not impossible, but the men are still capable of sustained physical effort.

This man nearly succeeded in felling this tree using only a spade. However, constructive action was still attempted by those retaining a sense of responsibility in spite of physical symptoms. However, constructive action was still attempted by those retaining a sense of responsibility in spite of physical symptoms. But one hour and ten minutes after taking the drug, with one man climbing a tree to feed the birds, the crew commander gave up, admitting that he could no longer control himself or his men. Yeah, so this is one of the first experiments they did with LSD and soldiers.

Would you be trying to spray the air over the opposition? I mean, otherwise, what? Well, you can infect their food supply, you can infect their water supply. So using it against your enemy, so to speak. You could do that. Yeah. OK. That's, I mean. I mean, there was also some experiments that they ran.

I think it was in St. Louis, where they were using a fan, and they were spraying things, aerosol spraying, to see what kind of effect things would have on people. Like, our government, if you give them the license, right, I don't want to say our government. Let's just stop saying that. Let's just say human beings with unchecked power. Human beings with unchecked power that are, they have an imperative. Like what are they trying to do? Well, they're trying to figure out what this stuff does and what's the best way to do it. You tried it out on soldiers. Like they've always done that with vaccines and a bunch of different experimental androgens they've dosed

them up with steroids and all sorts of different things to increase aggression methamphetamine was used during the war to get kamikazes to fly their planes into boats yeah yeah I've seen that footage of him. I think was at the Olympics. Yes, 1936 Did not have that they propped him up on that to the degree that he was able to subsequently convince Mussolini to jump into The mix. Yeah Have you ever read blitzed? No, it's do we have it here still Jimmy? Have you ever read blitzed no, it's do we have it here still Jimmy Norman Oehler wrote this insane book on the ubiquitous use of drugs during the Third Reich and how It caused them to go through Poland in three days because they stayed up for three fucking days on meth and they gave the most meth to the people that were

Driving the tanks because they were at the front so it was like they gave different doses depending on what your job was. And they just methed up ran through Poland and they caught these people just like in France, like their soldiers were given wine. So these people were like drunk and then the Nazis came through methed up and just fucking killed everybody. You know, I've heard that, I don't know if this is true or not. So I heard that similar things were given. Forgive me for throwing this out there. It could be total bullshit, but to Hamas on the October 7th attack in order to be able to commit those kinds of

atrocities. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know either. I've heard I've heard it through friends who are Israeli it could be bullshit but I would wonder if you have to Commit those kinds of violent acts against another human being I Would imagine you'd have to be Altered in some capacity. I can't even fathom being able to I don't know I can't I can't rub my hands are capable of great atrocities without any kind of one-on-one like that though yeah really yeah they do it I mean look at Vietnam look at the things that people did

during Vietnam I don't I don't think they'd dose them up in Vietnam I guess you're right and you know in Vietnam people were taking heroin and smoking weed and they were still doing that it's people have an evil capacity to other other people and decide. You see it politically you know in this country like people on the left will demonize people on the right, people on the right will demonize people on the left. It's just like it's a tribal thing that it's it's an echo of our past because essentially when we were small tribes of 150 people and then you got invaded by a neighboring tribe, you had to be able to commit extreme violence against the other. And you had to be able to think of them as not you, that's

not a person, that's them. And you have to be able to go after them. I can understand that broadly. And that's encouraged by the group. Okay, right, Fair. But some of it is just so visceral and hideous and I don't mean to bring the vibe down. But it's one thing to kill another human being that I have to, this is how we survive, or whatever it is. We're fighting Nazis and you don't have a choice. Okay, fair. But to be heads, just that kind of stuff, I just think- Torture, yeah.

I often ask, this is going to a very unplanned place, but I ask myself what I'm capable of if somebody hurt my kids or hurt my wife or hurt my mom What would I be capable of doing? I bet you'd be capable of extreme violence. I think oh without question but I Would be capable of it, but I don't like blood. I can't stand blood. I don't like guts It would it would make me sick. It would horrify me So I'm like how would I this is the shit that tortures me in the middle of the night when I can't sleep Like how far removed am I, this is the shit that tortures me in the middle of the night when I can't sleep. Like, how far removed am I from this mentality?

Like, am I just a few catastrophes away from losing my mind and becoming a lunatic? But- Well, that's the appeal of the walking dead. Right. The walking dead, the zombies become inconsequential. The real problem is people. Yes, that's so true.

And I could do a hell of a lot of horrendous things, but I couldn't like some of the torture methods. I don't know. How do you have the stomach for it? Well, like look at what they did during the Inquisition. You can't say that that was drugs. These were people that just decided they were going to torture people. And they had, you know, they decided, they othered people.

And this is a really evil aspect of human nature. How do you defend against it, do you think? Seriously, like if we all have it in us, what is the antidote to that? You have to have a strong army. To have people that can defend you against people that wanna do that to people here. You know, and that's, and then they have to have a strong ethical and moral foundation

where they would never be compromised. Yeah, they have to be the good guys. They have to think that they're the good guys and have a very strong ethical and moral foundation that doesn't allow them to compromise that. It's tough though, because when people fight dirty, it's such a massive disadvantage. Right. That then you think, well, I'm going to lose if I don't make this sacrifice in how I'm It's tough though because when people fight dirty, it's such a massive disadvantage. That then you think, well, I'm going to lose if I don't make this sacrifice in how I'm behaving or how I'm tackling this.

Well, we like to think that we're the good guys, but the biggest thing that's ever been done to human beings that's horrific is the nuclear bomb. Like indiscriminate killing of civilians, hundreds of thousands, boom in one shot. Okay, the argument being that you drop it and then the war ends. So it's the lesser of evils. You know, you've sacrificed hundreds of thousands of people in that moment, but did you save millions down the road? Can you justify the behavior utilizing that logic?

Well, you know, I committed this atrocity, but I saved more lives. Like that's the slippery slope that I think about often is you were just talking about this the other day when you be careful you don't become a monster when you're fighting monsters. And sometimes it's that it's that firefighting fire conversation. You want to use water, but what if it doesn't work? Yeah, sometimes you have to become a monster. Sometimes you honestly, Joe, I hate to say it, but sometimes you have to. Yeah, if you want to defeat evil, you have to become a monster. Because if you don't, you won't beat it.

You have to do horrific things to beat horrific people. You have to kill them, right? Like if someone's invading and they're shooting guns at people and they show up at the beach and they pull up in boats and they start gunning people down, you have to do the same to stop that. You can't like bring out daisies and go, Hey guys, like I bake you these pot brownies. Just like, let's just chill. Let's just rethink this man. Sebastian Younger said this to me once.

He's like, listen, if you aren't willing to talk to the worst enemy, you have to fight them. But it's when the talking doesn't work. And you see that all the time. You see, I see it in my own personal life when all of my best intentions and my calmest demeanor and my most empathetic approach to something fails because you're just not dealing with somebody who is rational or well-intentioned.

And if you broaden that out... Well, then imagine a language barrier. We have no idea what they're saying. Right. Yeah. And then a cultural barrier where their culture believes that if they die, that they're going to go to heaven and that they'll be a martyr. And so they're willing to do that. They're excited to die and to kill you with them because

they believe that the real prize is not in this life. It's in the next life. It's insane that we could- But we're very vulnerable. We're very vulnerable to this kind of thinking. And I don't know why we're designed this way. I don't know why we're designed this way. I don't either. It's a distortion probably of tribal survival primate instincts. You know you see it with have you ever watched Chimp Nation? No I was actually going to say animals don't have it but then here we are. Oh they do. Really? I know lions will kill another territorial but the capacity for torture

I've never seen that in the animal kingdom that kind of you ever see a cat with a mouse. Okay? Yeah, I guess I have yeah, they torture mice They hold on to them and then they let them go and the mouse like oh Jesus gonna Let me go like not today motherfucker, and then they torture them and want to keep playing with them Yeah, they have zero empathy cats are them. Yeah. They have zero empathy. Cats are the worst. Yeah. They have zero empathy, especially house cats, cause they're well fed, right? So they're not doing it for food.

They're just doing it because they have instincts to kill. Like they're, these instincts are being, they're, they're being distorted, right? Because like the real instinct that they have to kill is so that they could survive. But when they're fully fed, they don't turn those instincts off. You know, now they just have this kill drive that's never satiated. And, you know, cats are the perfect killer. They move so fast, they're so stealthy, they have it from the time they're kittens. You see them crawl up to each other like very slowly very jump on each other I'm thinking about our cat actually as you're talking when we lived in Miami he would use the dog door and he would bring in iguanas this big yeah my wife would be like honey you know chasing this fucking iguana around the house

it was it was ridiculous yeah and he, and he wouldn't kill it. No, they're not trying to kill it. They're having fun. He was having fun. Now that I mean, you're right. You have a little murderer that you live with. Yeah. Cute little bastard, but yes.

That's what cats are, you know, and that's a part of their essence. I mean, they are the cleanup crew. They're there to make sure the populations don't get out of control. God, you bring up such a great point. Have you ever seen the numbers on cats, cats like domestic cats what they kill every year at the birds I know they kill a crazy billions billions billions billions of birds Let's look at the numbers she's because you people we brought it up before but it's it's worth repeating because it's it's kind of crazy. So it sort of illustrates this point So this is like

Billions yes B with B like multiple that me house cats Oh does they don't have to be they kill each cat feral cats are ruthless House cats feral cats wild cats any cat that's outside. Yeah, they instantly kill cats, feral cats, wild cats, any cat that's outside. Yeah, they instantly kill. Okay, here it is. Domestic cats, the leading cause of bird deaths in the United States, estimated to kill 1.3 and 4 billion birds annually. This includes both pet cats and cats that roam outdoors and feral cats. Jesus. American Bird Conservancy estimates that free-ranging cats kill approximately 2.4 million. It's

hard to know what the real numbers are. Of course, right, yeah. But they know it's in the billions. It's in the billions. But imagine how many birds there would be if cats didn't do that. Like, who's going to kill them? Like, the fucking, the sky would be filled with birds. You go outside, you get shit on everywhere. I'm like, Alfred Hitchcock movie. It's kind of crazy.

I mean, when you do look back at the plague and they started killing all the cats because they were associated with witches And that's when the plague was able to kind of run more rampant right the cats were keeping that rat population down Fleas on the rats caused well, that's the coyote problem in California, right? Like people like I hate coyotes, right? But do you hate coyotes more than you hate rats? Because coyotes are the reason why rats aren't everywhere. You know, like where I used to live, like, there was a lot of coyotes, but I don't see very many rats. And that's the reason why, like the wolves, the little wolves, which is what a coyote is, the small wolf,

they're rat killers. And rabbit killers and everything else they get a hold of. I mean it's obvious that they're playing a role in this control. Yeah, exactly. Because everyone in California just thinks they ate my Pomeranian. Oh, they probably did. And they probably did. I mean as a child. They ate my daughter's puppy. But a mountain lion ate one of my dogs

when I lived in Colorado. Yeah, it's like, cats are motherfuckers, you know? And predators, like at least predators are doing it for food. Well, I was gonna say, you don't hold it against, as a child I lost a dog to a coyote. To this day, I don't hate coyotes. It's like, well, the dog was in the yard

and we didn't coyote proof the art enough Let's fucking coyote birth the art. Yeah, really coyote proof your yard either I had a coyote kill a chicken in my yard We had a six foot tall six foot tall wrought iron fence with the rollers on it No We didn't have the rollers but the coyote with the chicken in its mouth leap to the top like a ballerina Like it was so elegant the way I was really impressed with its athleticism. And as a person who like admires physical feats, I was like, well,

that's very impressive because with a chicken in its mouth, leaped up to the top of the fence, got its paws on it, went over just so gracefully and so adept. It was really impressive. Okay fair This is okay. I guess animals do have a propensity for cats in particular I did not think of it that way that makes me feel a little better The cat thing is fucked up because they're not even doing it for food It's but it's like that thing inside of them has been It's there you can't satisfy it with just food I mean they literally are the clean-up crew for nature.

That's what they are in Africa. When you see them, they're looking for the wounded antelopes. They're looking for anybody who's old. They're looking for anybody who just can't run fast enough. And that's what they do. And that's how they keep the populations down. You know, this is the reason why they've reintroduced wolves into Colorado. And that's the reason why they reintroduced wolves in Montana and the elk populations decreased significantly because the elk populations were out of control. Right, right, right. So they brought in wolves and the wolves like radically dropped the population down.

And they even do surplus killing where they'll kill a bunch of things where they can't eat but just that they can't help themselves. They have the opportunity to kill and so they do. So what is the, what is the antidote to this within the human population? Because I see the necessity for survival, but it can make you quite depressed if you let it, it can make you a bit nihilistic and fighting for the hope and the good is so much. My mom says that to me all

the time because when I try to show her some of the things you and I talked about in the beginning, don't you see and this is rigged and who's really pulling the strings and these are bad guys. And she's like, honey, I'm 76. Like, leave me alone. And that's fine. I want to there's nothing wrong with that. You know, she's like. I want to... There's nothing wrong with that. You know, she's like, I want to see the good in people. Try to see... Mr. Rogers, look for the helpers. But you can fall into really becoming nihilistic about humanity when you witness these things

and have these conversations. And I try so hard to not go there in my head, but it's hard not to. Well, we are primitive. Don't be calm that way. We're a primitive evolving species, and we're still trapped with these primate bodies. We're territorial primates with weapons,

and we're still trapped with the same instincts that got us to the dance, the same instincts that caused us to create walled cities, which allowed us to survive, and then agriculture, which allowed us to develop surpluses. And then people wanted those surpluses, nomads, and they came in, the roving barbarians, the Mongolian hordes. This is all part of our history. And this is the battle of good versus evil.

And the battle of good versus evil, I think this duality has to exist. I think you have to have good to combat evil and you have to have evil to keep good in check, like to enhance good and to force people to really, to rise and to innovate and to figure out how to defeat evil. Without evil and without the idea of these hordes, we never would have developed cities. If we never developed cities, we never would have gone through the Industrial Revolution. We wouldn't develop cities if we were just roving peaceful nomadic hunter-gatherers. We would be the same. It serves its purpose. I've read all my Khalil Gibran. It's like, oh, you know, the deeper

your pain, like the more ability you have for empathy. And I get all of it, but it's seemingly imbalanced now. And I guess that's what I mean. It's always like that. But that's, that is what causes people to strive to do better. I hope you're right, Joe. I think it is. I mean, you're definitely one of those guys, which is why, bringing it back to the very beginning, I think that you're number one, but I also think you're one out of quite a few.

Well, you know, you have to have principles that you live your life by, right? And be aware of evil, but do your best to be good. Yeah. And you see the fight. Without evil, like you have no desire to be good. Like why be so, why be wonderful? Why be kind? And why, there's no contrast, there's no nothing you're fighting against. Like this is unfortunately what motivates. What makes you choose though? Okay, so another thing that I've thought about often is like evil never stops going. Have you ever heard that good has to decide when it gets out of

bed in the morning? You're on the freeway and someone's broken down on the side of the freeway and it's like, are you late for something? Are you worried? There are a million things that will influence whether or not I stop that day. But a bad guy will always see an opportunity to go after that person. Evil works tirelessly and good. Requires a sacrifice. You sacrifice yourself. Too dark of a conversation. It's like that's it. No more of this dark shit. Is it back now? Oh, yep. That's weird. I didn't even touch it. It's happened before.

I don't know. OK, I'm back. Yeah, this is the time for- It's evil. Evil's trying to stop me from saying- Yes, it is. The moment I'm saying there's more good than there is evil. The mic disconnects.

Yeah, I think, unfortunately, evil can co-op people. And because good people can become evil when they experience so much evil that they have to become, you know, become a monster. Yeah. Fight against monsters. I'm seeing it even in the health space. As sometimes I'll, you know, Brigham is dealing with the FDA stuff right now and I was talking to him this morning and he's like, Jillian.

And he's talking about trying to compound peptides and there's a war on peptides and there's a war on stem cells and of course it's like the cutting edge of medicine but he's like describing what they're going up against in dealing with this and it's it's evil like why would you want to prevent these life-saving treatments? Well that's a perfect example. Yeah. That's money and if money is the devil that that's a perfect example because the farmers... How much do you need though Joe? Yeah. That's money and if money is the devil that that's a perfect example because the farmers need though Joe Yeah, that's not you though. The problem is Corporations you I'm sure you've seen this before corporations behave like a psychopath Right because corporations don't have humanity and when you have a corporation

Which I don't know how we get away from not having corporations. So what's the solution there? but corporations have an obligation to their shareholders. And sometimes you have to do fucked up things in order to make more money. And that's when you're in the business of drugs. If you're in the business of making movies, what fucked up things can you do to make more movies and make movies that more people are going to see? Really nothing.

It's like you just have to make them resonate with people. But if you're selling drugs, well boy, you can influence people. You can lie about studies. You can have your scientists perform studies and then throw out all the studies that don't jive with whatever you're trying to sell. Combounding. And then you can Pharmacies kicking them out. Compromise. Yeah, you compromise all these politicians and get them to repeat your narratives

That should be illegal though. Oh, yeah That should be illegal. You should be able to get rid of but the policies you're not so how do you get it out? You got a reform campaign finance. Do you remember many moons ago? I believe it was John Edwards who was running on that many moons ago But as a kid, I didn't fully understand what that meant. As an adult, no one's ever brought that. I mean, kind of. Here's step one. You got to say they can't advertise.

That's number one, because not only is it not advertising is not really the problem. It's part of the problem. But the real problem is when they advertise and Callie Means talked about this extensively. Now the media will is when they advertise and Callie means talked about this extensively Now the media will not criticize them because they're responsible for an enormous percentage of their income 70 plus percent But the issue i've had this conversation recently and the issue is going to be freedom of speech here It's going to be a first amendment fight, but that's not a first amendment thing Because you could still do it on social media. You could still like make your own podcast if you're Pfizer That's the angle they're gonna take I am sure of it, right?

But you can't advertise for cigarettes on television. Why because we've decided kids I think I think it's kids I've heard this conversation and I'm trying to remember who one of the researchers was but Cali was there Mark Hyman was there and they were having this exact conversation and one of the people on the other side was suggesting that they have already gamed this out and that's the way that they're going to go. Well, ironically, this is self-sabotage for the media itself because no one takes them seriously anymore because they don't do that, because they don't criticize the pharmaceutical drug companies.

They don't talk about vaccine side effects. They don't talk about vaccine side effects. They don't talk about pharmaceutical drug side effects. They don't. They make you look like you're insane when you do. Yeah, you're a crazy person. I was on CNN talking about Ozempic one time. And they essentially called me anti-science

because I suggested that a lot of the drugs, yeah, I was like, well, they're like, well, we give people statins, and we give people blood pressure medication. Don't look fucking data on status, by the way, I was initiating that conversation and I was called anti-science and even anti-science. They don't understand the data. They won't even allow you to express that on the show. Anyway, then never again invited on CNN. Because they're compromised. It's not really news. It's only the news that they feel compelled

to talk about due to their financial interests. Yeah, they buy the narrative across the board. But the problem with that, like, look at the ratings on CNN. They're fucking collapsing and they're in a spiral. Why? Because no one trusts them anymore. So the public trust has been eroded because of their own desire to make more money. There's an opportunity where a network wanted me to compete against these GLP-1 drugs and everyone loves the idea. But the top concern is, oh, what if Jillian wins? And then it'll be a catastrophe.

So the ad sales department is like, I don't know if we can do this. We can't call it Jillian versus we can't call it that. What are we going to call it? I don't know how we're going to position this. I was like, we don't even need to bash it. Let me just do my job. Let's see what happens. But they're even afraid.

God forbid I won and was able to do it naturally Do you think there's an argument for GLP one drugs though for people who are morbidly obese because I kind of do okay So here's where I've gotten to on All all medications largely It's a cost-benefit analysis So if you brought an individual who was morbidly obese and already had atherosclerosis and type 2 diabetes and chronic kidney disease and you said, we've tried everything, they're at death's door and this is arguably the last step.

Well, in that case, the downsides of the medications are far less than not trying it. So in that instance, you could twist my arm for sure. But if you gave me my way, I would prefer to look at what the medications like Ibogaine or psilocybin could do for the psychological component, the addictive component. Yes. One treatment. Yeah. Doesn't go on forever. And then, because diet and exercise do work, what's stopping them from engaging in those habits consistently is all the stuff we talked about in the beginning, the psychological component, the physical addiction. So you know, no one's ever tried it though. So there's no way to actually know and you can't, it's almost

impossible to do the research on it, which is again why the Text Cybegain Initiative is so important, because you can begin this kind of research, although it is in veterans and addiction and so on, but would that be the first step? And when I've asked the people in the space, like Matt Shepard for example, who is at Shepard Pratt and one of the guys that's the foremost experts on psilocybin and treating addiction, he's like, yeah, theoretically, you would work great. Theoretically. So for me, if we got all the way to this place

and I had no choice, that's like saying, Jill, if someone had stage four cancer, would you do chemo? I mean, I guess so, but I'd like to, if there was an alternative way forward, or if we could prevent it to begin with, that would be ideal. So you could twist my arm to that point. I think there's something to be said for,

again, what Brigham is doing at Ways to Well, which is why being able to compound the GLP-1 drugs allows you to titrate the dose. So when people argue with me on this matter, they'll suggest that a titrated dose, a lesser amount of these drugs can be effective with significantly less side effects. But when they're trying to block that and you can't even explore it.

Yeah. It's all weird because I think the problem also is competition, right? If Ibogaine becomes ubiquitous and these clinics become everywhere, the real issue becomes how much does that compete with the pharmaceutical drug market's value? How much does that decrease their their ability to profit? And it's probably significantly. I mean if it impacts antidepressants alone, that's significant. If one treatment could have the impact on obesity that it does on opioid addiction, GLP-1s are the most profitable drug of all time.

But here's the thing, if they do allow the use of Ibogaine and then also they allow the use of psilocybin, if more people start taking it, more people are not going to buy whatever the pharmaceutical drug companies are selling, and they'll just naturally sort of deteriorate. You're always going to have fools. You're always going to have people that just want to, what do I take? I'll take it. There's always going to be people like that. You know, and those people are there to give you a lesson without you having to fall prey

to the folly that they have fallen prey to. I think that's the same with a lot of addictions, particularly gambling addiction. I'm in Vegas all the time and I don't gamble. I've played blackjack for fun, but like 20 bucks here, I don't get it. But I see it, I see it, I see that crazed look in the, I think gambling addiction is one of the weirder ones. I've been around it a good portion of my life, and it's the sweaty fucking faces,

this need to gamble is really nuts, and that's another part of the human reward system that's been hijacked. And the intermittent rewarding. Yeah. Yes. Is the intermittent rewarding. Yeah. Is the most powerful. It's crazy. It's the study I've ever seen with the rats,

where they push the button, no food comes out. Push the button, food comes out. So the ones that get the intermittent food reward will sit there and push that damn button until they collapse of exhaustion. The ones that push for a little while get nothing, give up. The ones that push until they get food every time, get full, and give up.

It's slot machine logic. It's the same thing. Yep. It's that intermittent reinforcement. It's exceptionally powerful. Easy to manipulate. We're weird creatures. I know. And it's again, it's all our survival instincts. Get hijacked. But if you gave them an alternative path when they are ready for help, When the horse is ready to drink and you had an alternative method that we're seeing work. Yes. Well that's the thing. We have to have freedom of the use of these alternative methods and I think naturally those would overcome. They would succeed. I think you'd still probably have gambling addicts. You still probably would have people that want to take all the pharmaceutical drugs like whatever the doctor wants to prescribe to him

But it would be less and less and they don't want that which is why you're seeing the pushback from the FDA with Peptides and all these different things is because they're concerned that if you give people a bunch of things that are gonna make them healthy They're not gonna take as many pharmaceutical drugs Oh without quite mean which is why there's no model for prevention and healthcare. It's just not profitable at all. But it's ridiculous. There's a peptide called cerebralizing that they give to stroke patients in other parts of the developed world

that can have a massive impact as well on cognitive function and can be neuroprotective. You can't even buy it here. Literally, I had to find it in Austria, ship it into the country and Brigham and Dr. Rexford I was like now what do I do with this? Brigham had to walk me through how to use it on freaking FaceTime. It's ridiculous. It is insane.

It's pretty crazy. By the way there's a new stroke drug that I actually just sent my friend Rich, because our friend Keith Robinson, I don't have his number, but he suffered from a stroke. And there's some new drug that, I'll send this to you, Jamie, these UCLA scientists have developed, oh, you got it already, they developed first drug rehabilitation to repair brain damage. Drug replicated the recovery of movement control produced by rehab in mice. Oh, that's cool.

Yeah. So this is March 18th. New study by UCL Health has discovered what researchers say is the first drug to fully reproduce the effects of physical stroke rehabilitation in model mice following from human studies. Yeah. So, which is wonderful. It's amazing. So this is the benefit of pharmaceutical drugs.

There are some pharmaceutical drugs that are wonderful. So the goals to have medicine that stroke patients can take that produces the effects of rehabilitation. Dr. S. Thomas Carmichael, the study's lead author and professor and chair of UCLA neurology, rehabilitation after stroke is limited in its actual effects because most patients cannot sustain the rehab intensity needed for stroke recovery. Further, stroke recovery is not like most other fields of medicine where drugs are available to treat the disease such as cardiology, infectious disease, or cancer. Carmichael said,

rehabilitation is a physical medicine approach that has been around for decades. We need to move rehabilitation into an era of molecular medicine. So this is why, you know, you don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water. Totally right. It's always like that, though.

Everything is a U-shaped curve. There's drugs that the pharmaceutical drug companies make that help people and heal them and fix them and save their lives. I couldn't agree with you more. It's great. It's like, but it is that Goldilocks is... Just like you have to keep your kids from eating all the sugar. Completely.

I just got a whooping cough and Joe, I literally thought I was going to die. I ended up at week seven, I called my internist and I was like, I think you need to check me in the fucking hospital. This is insane, I think I'm going to die. And they hit me with the horns. And the long story short is, I am vaccinated for it, but I guess my vaccination or my booster is old.

I don't even remember the last time I got it. My wife is vaccinated, my kids are vaccinated for it, my mom is vaccinated for it. Everybody in my circle is vaccinated, time I got it. My wife is vaccinated, my kids are vaccinated for it, my mom is vaccinated for it. Everybody in my circle is vaccinated, no one got it. I strongly recommend getting your DTaP vaccine because whooping cough, it was a hundred days of it. So for example, my point being like, I don't want the COVID vaccine,

chillian, I don't want the COVID vaccine and I don't need it. But in any universe for me personally, if I would have known I was behind on that booster, it's like everything has a cost benefit analysis. Everything, it's like the dose is what makes the poison. Everything is that U-shaped curve. And approaching it with nuance

is really the only intelligent way forward to make the best decisions for yourself. But you need the right information to do that. Right. And we need to have actual access to data. And this is a real problem that we've had in the last few decades because there's been this revolving door between the FDA and pharmaceutical drug companies.

So people that are the head, I think it's like seven out of eight heads of the FDA went on to work for pharmaceutical drug companies. We're evolving to our 100%. So you've developed these relationships with these pharmaceutical drug companies where you're like they're funding the studies, they're funding all, and then you leave and then you go to work for them and you get a nice cushy job. So you kind of like look sideways. I can make it worse. I was, when I was at the Senate testimony, I can't remember how many months ago that was, but CaliMeans had us meeting with different senators and their aides and a kid came up to me and I of course brought that up and he's like, it's so much worse than that.

And I was like, elaborate, what do you mean it's so much worse than that? And he said essentially they develop the drug, have stock in the company, go to work at the FDA, approve the drug, and go back to the drug company. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, oh, there's another step. OK. Got it.

So it's that much worse. It should be completely illegal. Yeah. I mean, want to talk about a conflict of interest. That's the biggest conflict ever. And you're dealing with billions of dollars in profit. I was working on a book, or have been working on a book, where it looks at each and every law that was put into place

with good intentions. In other words, the hell is paved with good intentions. And how each and every one was co-opted by Big Food, or Big Ag, or Big Pharma to wreck complete havoc and destruction. And that's what you see. That's what you see. And you're going to keep seeing that if nothing gets changed.

And that's what's encouraging about this administration. So the thing that I was most excited about was Bobby Kennedy. When Bobby Kennedy united with Trump, I was like, okay, I'm in. Because if he can get in there, you can see real change that's going to affect the way our lives are forever. It's going to change things. It's going to give people a real understanding of what's going on behind the scenes, why you've been lied to, why all these drugs are everywhere, why you're seeing poor health

outcomes, why we're the richest nation in the world but also the sickest, you know, why? And across the board with education, we're the richest nation in the world, we have terrible education scores, like why? Why since we developed a department of education have our scores plummeted? Like what is that?

And again, road to hell, good intentions. Yes, 100%. I was speaking with Kelly, and he's like, don't pull punches. Because you want to be diplomatic. But I am finding myself defending Kennedy, who, by the way, I've met twice. I don't work for this administration. I have no personal affiliation.

It's just right and wrong There is a huge problem that needs to be addressed and this administration wants to address it and that you are seeing the Resistance you are seeing the opposition flood the zone with hysteria 24 fucking seven and it's crazy. It's Constantly taking people off piste. Like, oh, I actually did an interview the other day on News Nation where the host is like, well, you know, he promised results on autism by September

and that's unrealistic. And I was like, who gives a fuck if it's unrealistic? Aren't you glad we're looking at it? It's genetic. I'm like, do you really believe that? Why would anybody say that without doing decades of research themselves? I cannot.

Do you really think? Do you know California's, it's now some insane number, like one in 12 boys? It's higher in California, obviously, than anywhere else in the country, and boys in particular over girls. But the reality is that we don't know. Well, they also think that one of the reasons why it's boys over girls is like in girls, it's like less obvious.

It's less diagnosed. That's interesting. I've seen that. I'm not sure if that's true either. Because that's the argument also is like, oh, autism has always been here. It just hasn't been diagnosed correctly. That was debunked though by the MIND Institute at UC Davis.

It was like, no, bullshit. It was one in 150 20 years ago. People don't want to admit they did that to their kids, and so they will defend it to the death. Just like people who have turned their kids trans don't want to admit that these are chemical castration drugs. They don't want to admit it. They don't want to admit that they possibly have contributed to mental disease, their mental health disease, to anxiety and

depression and suicide. No, no, no. Would you rather have a live boy or a dead girl? Right. Exactly. What are you talking about? But it's a closed system. And what I mean by that is even if I did the gimme, oh, you're right, autism is genetic, well what about the rise in early onset cancer diagnosis, the rise in obesity, the steady increase of infertility year after year after year. We went from adult onset diabetes to type 2 diabetes because children have type 2 diabetes now. Come on, How far you want to push it? People are not stupid. They're not. You can capture them to a point, but when the evidence is overwhelming, we are sicker than

ever and the resistance is mind-blowing to this guy every day. Oh well, know he fired the guy that's tracking gonorrhea. I mean where a fucking condom for God's sake. I think he was that worried. Hopefully that guy will get his job back. But at the end of the day he's also tackling the grass rule and trying to get to the bottom of autism and getting poison out of baby formula and removing soda from snaps. It's just like, where is the perspective for the general public to read through the media bullshit? Well, the problem is it's gone tribal, right? And when you have an us versus them thing going on, which is what we do here in this country, you know, like I keep seeing like people online saying in these dark times,

yes, are these times so dark? Like what is happening? But you know, you know, it's dark. Yeah. If you're living in Gaza, it's pretty fucking dark. If you live in Ukraine, pretty dark. But like here is have things gone dark? Like this totalitarian regime. Okay.

What's totalitarian that they're cutting fraud and waste? Like have you paid attention to the fraud and waste? You paid attention to the fact they spent 250 million dollars on transgender animal studies like where's your fucking money going? You're not concerned with this unchecked spending that this government has been able to do for a decade upon decade and these Millions of NGOs. Do you know there's an NGO in India for every 600 people? Not I have heard it's the CIA slush. I've watched that episode with my friends at least 10 of them. 3.3 million NGOs in India. There's an NGO in India for every 600 people

And this is why we're 36 trillion dollars in debt Those numbers are nuts. Can I read the opposition on this? Sure, please do. There's children that are starving, Joe. You've taken their food away. Well, we definitely shouldn't do that. You know, if you can prove that this is also the problem with charities, this is the dark truth of charities, is that most charities, the money goes to bureaucracy. A huge percentage of it goes to overhead. And in fact, most charities, the vast majority of the money

never gets to the charity. Homelessness in California. 24 billion gone. Where is it? It was... Yeah. Where's the money? And the problem's worse. Spent on free needles or something. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what it was spent on. It wasn't even. It's probably. It's worse. It's worse. It's worse. It's worse. It's worse. It's worse. It's worse. It's worse.

It's worse. It's worse. It's worse. It's worse. It's worse. It's worse. It's worse. It's worse.

It's worse. It's worse. It's worse. It's worse. It's worse. It's worse. It's worse. It's worse. It's worse. It don't understand it's the opposite there's a

business now so these people that are working in the homeless you know whatever the organization they're making quarter million dollars a year half a million some cases I don't know if you've seen Anna Kasparian talk about this but she can elaborate on this subject matter to the point that you literally want to forcibly remove Gavin Newsom from office. It is staggering and some of them half a million bucks and nothing. They're doing a great job. Just imagine if they weren't there how much homeless we'd have. We'd all be homeless. I know. You've seen him talk about... Everyone would be homeless so just relax., it's it's I just had this conversation

Actually, I was talking to Carolla and he was telling me that Gavin Newsom had told him back in the day That the face of homelessness was not addiction And mental illness it was women and children and there's a loophole a friend of mine who's a reporter with the New York Times Looked into it And there's a loophole, a friend of mine who's a reporter with the New York Times looked into it because she's like, why didn't you push back on that? I'm like, because he's right. She goes, no, no, no, no, I looked into it and it's women and children. Then she ended up getting to the bottom of the loophole.

And the way that he was able to put forward that narrative is that homeless is a person with that a stable address and that's predominantly women and children. But unsheltered is what we consider homeless, the people in the streets and the tent camps and arguably that is largely. So what is, I don't understand, what's the definition? Okay so, so Newsom was saying to Corolla like you're so insensitive and the face of homeless. Because children don't own homes? He was saying that women, like the mom that owns two jobs, that's who I'm trying to save.

We don't need to tackle addiction and we don't need to tackle mental illness because this is about the underprivileged individual, the female single mom with two kids who, you know, this is the face of homelessness. And Corolla was like, you're a sociopath. It's addicts and people with mental illness. And I ended up then in a debate with this journalist who's lovely, named Molly, and she's like, well, the statistics say that homelessness is in fact women and children. But when I challenged her and sent her San Francisco, wherever we go back and forth, And she ended up coming back to me after doing the homework,

and there is a distinction between homeless and unsheltered. So homeless are people with unstable addresses, and that is women and children. So I'm like- How, why? In a temporary, I couldn't quite extrapolate what. So is it like divorce?

I guess it's like in temporary housing or in an apartment somewhere, but unsheltered the people on the street that you and I would go homeless. In the tent camp outside on the sidewalk. So they're playing semantics. That's what he's doing. Oh God, doing oh, that's what I'm trying to get at gross yes I'm sorry cannot stand the guy well if you see these I can't stand them communities You see clearly you're dealing with drug addiction and mental illness, but don't believe

What you see with your own eyes? That's the game across the board. Don't believe your common sense. Common sense would dictate all the things we talked about. Autism is increasing. We shouldn't give sex change. We shouldn't sterilize 12-year-olds. But don't believe any of that. Don't believe that people who are homeless

need help psychologically. You need some way to treat the addiction. Obviously, there are more intelligent people like Schellenberger that have a plan for this despite the fact that he didn't get into the governor's office, which is a shame because he would have done far better than what California is dealing with now. But it's this constant game and manipulation of the facts all the time. And this is where if I could do one thing in my job

like it's teaching people how to defer back to their common sense it's the crazy. Common sense is not that common right? No. It's also people are tired because they have a poor diet and they're not eating well and so they don't have the time to be thinking about this stuff. They don't have the mental energy to like research these things and they're overwhelmed with bills and debt and you know and maybe like relationship problems and you know there's so many problems that people have already to get them to look at external issues that maybe don't affect them personally on a day-to-day basis. It's very difficult to get people to focus on that.

So then they vote with what they think is like their virtue. Yeah. You know, blue no matter who, vote Democrat no matter what. Like that's not helping you. And then when you abandon it and leave, you're called a traitor. You know, you're a traitor to the party. Yeah, you must get that a lot. Oh, my God. Well, I went through all of it. But then when you finally decide it doesn't matter

anymore, you become immune. So I was I was it's interesting back in the day when I you know, my friend used to refer to me in this capacity, she'd say, you know, you're like the fat person's Jesus. This is the early 2000s. Oh, Jillian Michaels is, you know, doesn't judge, but then she's open arms and she's trying to help people. And then the very same person with the very same belief system and the very same strategies in dealing with the problem became the ultimate enemy, the ultimate fat-shamer, the ultimate science denier. And it just goes to show you how the

narratives shift. It's tough to call me a transphobe because I fall under that acronym umbrella, despite the fact that gay is very different than trans. I've never really understood the acronym either. It's a trap. Completely. But you can't say, like, go ahead. I'm a homophobe?

Come at me, bro. You're literally gay. It's a tough one. I am married to a woman. Like go ahead. I'm a homophobe. Come at me, bro. You're literally gay. It's a tough one. I am married to a woman. It's tough to like, you can try. I haven't been hit with a racist card although I'm waiting for it. I don't know, maybe because my kid is Haitian and she gives me a pass. I have no idea. But you know, you get certain protections simply because you're a card carrying member of the club.

But I got hit with everything outside of that. You know, transphobe, not ish, ish, fat shamer and anti-science and ableist and privileged and all that stuff. Yeah, but all that stuff is losing its meaning. You know, the problem is you keep calling people, you call everyone a racist, like it doesn't mean anymore. You're crying wolf so many times that people don't listen anymore like a real racist is horrific You you see you run into a real racist like oh my god. That's horrific But it you know if you just call everyone a racist if you go math is racist like okay math racist

I've got peanut butter and jelly sandwiches are racist. I've seen that. Okay Oh, I haven't seen that one. The exercise is racist. I just see that alt-right. Yes. Wonderful. All right MSNBC One all right. I liked that. I like that one a lot. Yeah, I will tell you though I don't think that it is losing as much power as I had hoped and and I reference Elon Musk and here's why. It's seemingly working. I know a lot of people that think he's an anti-Semite. I'm like, you sure about that?

Well, they think he's a Nazi. More than just an anti-Semite. Like an actual Nazi. And these are reasonable people. Yeah, and here's the irony. He's on the spectrum. So this thing, he didn't even realize what he's doing, what he's doing, like, no, my heart goes out to you.

But Joe, what about the video, the montage of all the liberals, including AOC, engaging in the same sick hail? Tim Walsh, Tim Walsh, I love you all. Yes. This is like a, it's like a thing that people have to stop doing. But that's, that's- You gotta do it like this. You gotta have two hands, touch your heart, and then-

I'm not doing it! I'm not complying! You know, when I was getting in trouble with CNN during the vaccine days, the COVID days, they would use a photograph of me from the UFC weigh-ins, because when I go to the UFC weigh-ins, I say, welcome to the weigh-ins, everybody. So they had this photo of me from the side, that's the one they used all the time. No!

People buy that shit, and they are still buying it, and that scares me. And in an argument on Piers Morgan, and this is it, raise my voice a little bit, I was like, well, I don't know. I don't think he's an anti-Semite. Number one, he's friends with the Jews. Number two, he hires Jews.

And number three, he hasn't killed any Jews. And they were like- He has a necklace around his neck that he's given to one of the mothers of the hostages. It says bring them home. I remember him going after October 7th and talking about the videos that he'd seen. But the guy was like, oh, that's your your benchmark he doesn't kill Jews and I was like no

that's yours you're the one comparing him to Hitler who killed six million Jews so if you're going to draw that comparison zero six million so shut the fuck up it's all dumb it's but it's all it's all a trick because what they're really doing is going after him because he's trying to go after USAID And so I I see that flush fund, but can I tell you how many? reasonable people and I I Cannot I have friends that have to argue about it with exact same. Yeah, that's when I tell you that I I don't know that it's actually losing its power. It is

It's just not losing its power with really fucking dumb people and You're gonna have a certain percentage of really fucking dumb people and they're either gonna have to catch up or we're gonna have to overwhelm Them with a lot of logic that and that takes time and it takes a lot of these kind of conversations And they get out there and they get clipped and maybe you and I said something here that will be taken out of context And used against you which is always really fun. That's my favorite. Let me just take like a snippet of it. See told ya, she's a this. She's a that.

And then she'll think it's this reductionist thing where they try to define you by a string of words. Forget about your whole life. They did that to Candace Owens. Yes. Oh, she's disgusting anti-Semite. So I listened to her. I listened to her answer, all that stuff on her show and then I listened to her debate it with Rabbi Schmolling

And I thought okay, let's see what a bitch she is I listened to everything she said and I checked it all and watched it in context and then I actually sat with her and I Was like, all right, I can open the door. I like Candice a lot, but Candice says a lot of wild shit She does not not's not accurate. But do you think she hates juice? She thinks dinosaurs are fake. I hear you. I get it.

I get it. That is like self-inflicted. That's a self-inflicted wound. I understand. But do you think that she, I'm like, are you a Holocaust denier? No, I'm not a Holocaust denier. And still to this day, she's a Holocaust denier. Well, that's my friend Darryl Cooper, who was on my podcast, you know, because he said

hyperbolically that Winston Churchill was one of the main villains of World War Two because he started blockades and forced Hitler into action and starved the German people. It's like what he said was really unfortunate the way he said it the way he said it, but he was trying to say that Winston Churchill did some things that if he hadn't done them, maybe World War II wouldn't have gone the way it went. But the problem is when you say that and it gets taken out of context, people say, oh, he's a Holocaust denier and a Nazi sympathizer. But then you listen to his podcast He's got this like I think it's like 30 hours called fear and loathing in New Jerusalem And it's the most gut-wrenching tale of the persecution persecution of Jews in Eastern Europe just the beginning of it

I tell everybody just listen to the first like 40 minutes of it. It's so heartbreaking Like this is not the words of a homophobe or excuse me of an anti-Semite that would say those things. But reductionist things that people love to do. But even still, here would be my argument to that. Let's say he was. If you're inclined to believe that. Let's say that was his argument and that Hitler wasn't bad and it was Churchill. Then you're an asshole and an idiot. Then there's no hope for you. This gatekeeping of information.

But he's neither an asshole or an idiot and he's being called an asshole and an idiot by people who don't consume his work. Of course. Which is really crazy. I'm saying worst case scenario because I see this a lot with the gatekeeping of information and God forbid you don't fact check everybody on everything, which has been something that I've gotten a lot with the gatekeeping of information and God forbid you don't fact-check everybody on everything Which has been something that I've gotten a bit of it like well you nodded your head and you said I see your point I'm like, well, sometimes I see their point and sometimes I don't know and I can't fact-check everything and I'll talk to somebody else

Who has a different opinion but people can think for themselves as well. Yeah There's just a lot of bad faith actors out there and there's a lot of people that do that. This taking people out of context and trying to use this reductionist perspective and label people with these pejoratives that are inescapable. Like it's the racist, homophobe, anti-semi, all those, those are inescapable. And once you get hit with those, that your that's your your fucking sticker on your forehead I love your life and

That's what they're trying to do to you because they're trying to silence you and Because they want to win and this is a real problem with human beings when it comes to ideas Is that like if I believe something and you believe something differently? I don't want to listen to you I want to beat you right I want to overwhelm you with talk. I want to pierce Morgan you into submission. I want to yell at you, not pierce the human, but the show. I know what you're talking about. Yeah. You want to yell at them and you want to win. You want to dunk on them. And this is why

I don't engage with people on social media. I just think it's the worst way to communicate. And when I see people doing it, I genuinely feel bad for them because I think they're mentally ill. When people are dunking on people constantly on social media, I'm like, well, that's a sign of mental illness. Like you're, there's something wrong with you, but you don't realize that yet. Like this shit's been around for 20 years now and you're still engaging in that kind of behavior on social media. It's stupid. It gets clicks. That's what I think it is. That's also part of the problem.

I get enough attention. I get enough attention so I don't need to reach out and try to get more, which is like, but by the way, that's what you're supposed to do when you get a lot of attention. You're supposed to rise above with great power, great responsibility. Supposed to try to be nicer, which I try.

That's like one of my core tenets in life, be as nice as possible. and here's a shocker I find people are nice to me almost Entirely like very rarely are people not nice to me because I'm nice to everybody So if you're nice to everybody guess what people are nice to you and even people I disagree with like disagree with Fundamentally, but you're listening to them though. That's exactly what you're trying to say. Yeah.

Like, one of the conversations I've referred to a couple times is the one I had with Matt Walsh. I don't know, I don't, there's no universe so I'm going to change Matt Walsh's mind about gay marriage. But, at least I want to understand them. And I also am hoping that some people who are in the middle of this argument and could be influenced might go my way. And there was a, I cannot remember if this was a Ted talk or where this information or the story was put out in the world, but it was the story of a black man who ended up befriending a grand wizard of the clan and ended up Davis is that he Davis. Is that the star? He's a friend of ours.

He's been on the podcast a couple times. Oh my God, the story. Daryl's a musician. Oh my God. And he met... And became the guy's godfather, the guy's kids? Not just one. No, he's got more than a hundred of these KKK guys to give him their robes and convert

and change them over. That's what I want. Just by love, just with love. That's what I'm hoping. In those conversations, that's power. Yeah, well that's, Darrell's a really amazing person, a shining example of what's possible. When you just show people, like he's like, man, you're different than all the others.

He's like, actually, I'm just a human. I just have more melanin in my skin, you know, and you are, unfortunately, you have been trapped by an ideology. You have othered people simply by their looks, you know? And you haven't learned this lesson that we were supposed to be taught by Dr. King in the 1960s, you know, judge a man by the content of the character.

It must have been your show, actually, where I heard it, but it changed the way that I approach 99% of my conversations because I thought okay if I listen with an intent to hear and an intent to understand and I can Expose people to the things they're uncomfortable with in a way where we find common ground I may not change their mind, but at least you're, in some cases you hopefully can, and at least you're modeling. But it takes so much time.

You know, it's like Indiana Jones, when the guy starts throwing the whip and he just pulls the gun out and just shoots him. Like, that's like, I just wanna shut the fuck up. You know, and that's what a lot of people like, especially today in this, like, everybody wants to take Ozempic. You want a fuck up, you know And that's that's what a lot of people like especially today in this like everybody wants to take ozempic You want a quick fix you don't work out for fucking six years to lose 50 pounds No, I want to just lose 50 pounds in a month

You know and this is the the quick fix thing of today's society and when you're offered this pill That makes you smarter instead of reading books like yeah, I'll take that pill You know like this is the argument that I have said to people when they always talk about you know I don't have time for exercise like I'm not interested in my body like I'm this is stupid it's vain it's just not nobody listen huh if I gave you a pill just give you a pill and that pill made you fit and healthy and muscular you wouldn't take that pill improved why would you not want a body that works way better improved your mood?

Yeah, your sex life would get better all of those things course you take it defense mechanism though You you know that right? It's a fear that they would be incapable of following through on what's required So they defend against it It's the same shit you see with the people that are overweight and like I don't care Or they make fun of their weight and like they become the funny fat guy. It's the same shit you see with the people that are overweight and like I don't care or they make fun of their weight and like they become the funny fat guy. It's a defense mechanism. Oh I have a lot of friends like that, a lot of comedians. It's like their entire act like being fat. I know. It's a big part of it. Yeah. There was a guy I went to kill Tony last night and there was a comedian that was up first and he was 412 pounds

and the guys were doing what they obviously do But there was a part of my heart that was splitting Course as I was like deep down this is he's hurting deep down this fucking guy's hurting deep. That's not funny I know right? That's the problem. I was dying inside for him And also if you're 420 pounds or whatever he is like boy the road to becoming healthy is Hundreds of pounds away, and that is so daunting Especially when you you you have the pull of addiction yes, and then the big problem Yeah, and then you get eat intuitively Oh my god, which is impossible by the way right because the food is designed to override if I

only pizza. I don't have a diet. I think some fries. That's 100% pizza, fries, and ice cream. Yeah, the fuck are you? Jesus. And Coca-Cola would be my whole diet. But the whole, the entire food system, all of the ultra-processed foods is designed to override your body's signaling of satiety. It's fucking impossible. All of the ultra processed foods is designed to override

Your body's signaling of satiety. It's fucking impossible Yeah, and then you couple that with the psychological vulnerabilities, and it's a powder keg you sound like an afro zempik My god, I'm gonna get that tattoo man Afro Zempig Dragon believer To my suitcase I fuck yeah, I like that Afro Zempig it's it's really kooky It's it's it's weird, but the only way out is through conversations. The only way out is to educate people or enlighten people or Expose people to other ideas like you're not really gonna educate them But you will expose them to other ideas. Like you're not really gonna educate them, but you will expose them to other ideas. And I think over time, the good ideas will win.

It's just, it's been so many years of bad ideas and it's so indoctrinating and it's so difficult. And then also it's your identity. Your identity is just, you know, whatever it is, whether you're Matt Walsh or whether you're a 420 pound trans person, like your identity is like embedded in whatever you think of yourself as being.

And it's very difficult to take wisdom from someone that you think of as the enemy. That's so true. And breaking that identity, in particular when it works against someone. So one of the things that, people can't believe in a reality they haven't experienced. That's true. And so one of the ways that people can't believe in a reality they haven't experienced. That's true.

And so one of the ways that I used to utilize fitness was to give them an experience that they didn't think they were capable of. So all of a sudden you've got the funny fat guy who just ran that mile without stopping. Or who just did the push up on the hands and the feet or just did 10 pull ups in a row or even two. But once they look at their achievement, it's like, holy shit. Yeah. I didn't know I was capable of this. And then you shatter that prison of limiting beliefs and you open up an infinity of possibility. You also have to find a tribe.

You have to surround yourself with other people that are trying to prove themselves. So if other people around you are trying to improve themselves Then it will encourage you to be a part of that group and you all do it together Completely and then help each other if you fall off the wagon and pick each other up and like reinforce positive Behavior you see all of that with you know back in the day I used to get so caught up in the fights about diets and fat diets and fat workouts and As I've matured or like to think that I have matured. I don't even engage in that shit anymore It really doesn't matter what workout you're doing if you're doing it with a qualified professional or if it's if people are showing up for

Crossfit because they love Crossfit and they love the community great if they're showing up for Pilates They love the community and they're showing up for Pilates, because they love the community and they're showing up for it, great. As long as they're showing up for something and the person teaching them, a great CrossFit coach, matters. That's a big difference between you herniating three discs and getting into the best shape of your life.

So I would simply say, look for a qualified expert. Yeah, that's a good point. But I'm beyond the what's the best diet and what's the best, who gives a fuck? As long as you're, if you're in a positive environment that's getting you to show up for it, day after day after day, something's better than nothing. It doesn't matter.

And you're focusing on improving. Yes, and that comes with community. For sure, you're absolutely right. That's what people love about CrossFit is the whole community of people. You go there, you're all working out together. I used to love that about yoga class. You go to a bunch of people, I knew them all,

like, hey, what's up? You know? But you don't talk until after it's over. It's one of those things. They really discouraged talking before. But you're all sweating together. You're going through it together. There's no other way. And then you get out the other end

you're like wow I wouldn't have done that by myself I would have quit at like 40 minutes but I did the whole 90 minutes and now I feel better and then the rest of the day is easy that's why I think community is such an integral part of treating addiction because you you have that supportive group to keep you accountable to show up to feel like you're a part of something and it We've seen it work for you and work against you. Yeah, it's like it's also an integral part for an evil army unfortunately You have to believe that you have to

Kill these heretics How do we tip things over to the right side of the- You have to make your side be more attractive. You have to make your side kinder and more empathetic and also more admirable. Yes, you're right. The rewards have to be there and admirable is one. Yeah. Yeah, you have to like wish you had those characteristics and go,

why don't I? Maybe I can, you know, and just also realize you're not who you used to be. Okay, if you were a fat, alcoholic gambling addict, you don't have to stay that way forever. You don't have to. You're not that, you're a human being. You are trapped with behavior and ideas that were not self-serving. They're not good for people around you, you probably stole things to feed your addictions,

and you feel terrible self-worth and terrible self-image, but that's not you, that's who you have been. You are who you are right now. So if you choose right now to be positive from here on out, and you're gonna have some mistakes and fuck up along the way, but find a group. This is why Alcoholics Anonymous is so important. You get around these people and you all agree they're all like and you have sponsors and you help each other like this is the whole idea of

community. We are not solitary individuals we're just not. We are a collective organism experiencing itself in individual ways. I agree with you. I do. I just, I want, I sometimes see evil winning out more often than not. Well, because that's what's in the news and that's also what's in your algorithm, you know? And that's why you have to stay off social media.

Your eyes. Yeah. I feel so much better. I've been off social media like almost entirely for like a few, I don't know, like really weaned off about two weeks ago. I really followed my wife's footsteps because like she just got off and she's like, I feel so much better. I'm like, damn, that's crazy. And so I'm like, let me try it. And so I tried it for a day. I was like, wow, I feel so much better after this day. And so I'm like, let me try it. And so I tried it for a day I was like why I feel so much better after this day and then I tried a couple days and I'm like, oh It's real like there's you know

Sugar Sean O'Malley UFC champion. He said he goes I get a low-level Anxiety when I'm scrolling through social media. I'm like, right. What is that? Like what is that? But that shits real It's also you realize like you're just distracting yourself with this stupidity that's but when you don't But when you don't do that your mind feels better. It really does feel better So I will occasionally like I'm on the toilet I like scroll through Twitter find out what does everybody mad at and then I'll put it away, you know And then sometimes I go days without looking at it at all and then sometimes like Hey, like I got a text the other day like hey man. Are you okay? I like well what and they're like

Oh people are mad at you on Twitter. I'm like, okay, that's not the real world, bro I don't even know what they're mad at like no don't reach like a friend of mine sent me something that people are I go Don't send me that shit. I'm not looking at it. I don't care. Aren't you immune to that by now though? You have been forged in Fire fuck's sake. What are they gonna say to you at this point that you're even gonna care? Well, the thing is it's not me. It's them They think that I'm upset at this thing because they would be upset at this thing because they don't get attacked Right. So like my sister used to send me things like that. I'm like don't send me that shit

You know, I don't care like, you know I know my wife used to do that for a little. I'm like don't send me that shit Yeah, I don't care like you know I know my wife used to do that for a little while because she would worry and want me to kind of like temper my behavior My business partner would do the same thing like I really yeah Did you stay and you stay in the pocket here on the fitness stuff? But I found that the more I would lean into that it didn't matter I found that the more I would lean into that, it didn't matter how many attacks would come my way because you would resonate with the people that got it. And that ended up working better for me personally and professionally. But you're right, it is their concern of how they would feel if people called them those

things or came for them with the pitchforks and torches. And by the way, the worst thing you could do is fight back, which is really crazy. The worst thing you can do is like interact with people that are attacking you. Of course. Which is really kind of, but that's everyone's instinct. Everyone's instinct is to go, well, I'll tell you what I think now. You get caught up in it. Yeah, you get caught up in it.

It's ridiculous. The only time I find myself doing that these days and I'm going to stop it is when my son will challenge me on something and then, my mother is like, we're debating something. She's like, honey, you're litigating this with a 13 year old. And I was like, yeah, okay. And you know why?

Because I still care what my kids think about me. Instead of, but the rest of the world, I don't give a fuck. Yeah. I don't give a fuck. Well, you do, but also you can't control No. what people think. Right, exactly.

The only thing you can do is be undeniable. That's so well said. Yeah. That is so well said. That's all you have. And so what happens with haters is they challenge you to become more undeniable. And so that's good, that's what their job is. They make you steal many arguments.

All the losers of the world They challenge you to become a bigger winner. They really do. Yeah, I've learned how it's especially in the health space when I would Be active in a conversation about fitness or nutrition or what have you you learn how to Bulletproof yourself in that conversation. Right, because people will fight so hard to keep their bad habits. God, it is insane. And there's also so much infighting in every industry, which bombs me out. And that's when I just was like, what am I doing? That's an attention thing, right? They're upset that you're getting the attention that they think they deserve. Like, she doesn't even know what the fuck she's talking about. But you know, you see a lot of that in the health space. You do and I hate it.

And it's super disappointing because we can share ideas and we can, as you said, admit when we're wrong and learn and grow and what have you. But the real enemy is not another frigging doctor or another PhD with a different opinion. Right. You know, we've seen who the real enemy is. And it's Big Pharma when it's got bad intentions or big food with bad intentions or big ag.

It's not going to be like the guy who has a different opinion on cholesterol. For fuck's sake. It's not even that. It's just that that guy with a different opinion on cholesterol is getting a lot of attention. And then these people are comparing them. They're comparing themselves to that person. Why don't I get this attention? And the way to get the attention is to dunk on that person, to say awful things. Yeah. But then people dunk on you.

And now your life is conflict. OK, good job. When they do, I like to sit down and see if there's truth there, like you said. I've not been immune to some of Lane Norton's assaults. And you know what? We sat down and I was like, listen, Lane, the things you're going after me on are not from me.

It's from this PhD, that PhD, this PhD, and the American Medical Association. And I had him on my podcast, and by the time we were done, he won me over. I was like, I believe you. I think you're right, I'm changing my position on this. But sometimes, you're right, it's because someone is getting attention or there's envy there. And I would simply say, you can intuit

when a criticism might be legitimate. And when you're seeing it over and over and over again, and it's a similar thing, there's something to look at there. But outside of that, when you know it's bullshit. There's also the problem with bots. Oh, yeah. Oh, my god.

So the vast majority of Twitter might be bots. You know, an FBI analyst that used to analyze big data sets, he looked at Twitter and he said, it might be about 80% bots. Kara Swisher said that to me. Yeah. I was blown away. No, crazy that is.

She was, she was, I mean, and she would know. And she was showing me stuff, bot farms and shit all along. It's, yeah, and then you're just engaging with the machine. Uh-huh. And they shape narratives. It's crazy. Rogue states and different people use it. And I'm sure there's publicity firms that use it.

I'm sure. I mean, I don't know. I don't either, but without question. You could use it with AI. You could easily have one computer that would run many, many accounts. And you could program it to have variations on a theme. But you see it sometimes when, like,

there's a lot of social media influencers that get co-opted. And one of the things that you see is a very similar message, you know, and they use very similar phrasing. You know, sharp as attack was one of them. And you saw that over and over again with Biden, like sharp as attack tack. Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh. So they were getting influenced and they were getting paid. Yes. You know, who did you ever see that? I'm sure. Of course you would have. But I remember when I was talking to Senator Johnson and he was exposing me to the trusted news initiative. And this is the whole, the newscasters that have the exact same script

and say the exact same thing. So well-in. And it, it, it, but in friggin', in broad daylight. Yep. There's, guys, like we have clips of all of you saying the exact same thing. It's so clear, it's a narrative.

And when he told me, he was God, this was this blew my mind. He went pre COVID to he was talking about this event at the Milken Institute, where Fauci and I got my God, I'm gonna screw this up. I think it's this guy Rick Bright, forgive me because this may be wrong. But the group of people definitely Fauci were talking about what it would take to get a global vaccine program Fauci says probably gonna take a pandemic and this is like Five months before yeah You know just put my tin hat on and roll myself in tin foil and jump all the way down the rabbit hole

But then Avril Haynes said well, what are we gonna do about? Misinformation at this event that she put on shortly after that? And he said that's where they came up with the Trusted News Initiative right in time. Well not only that, they came up with a new term and that term is malinformation. Do you know what malinformation is? Malinformation is true information that might do harm. So there's misinformation, disinformation, malinformation. I have not heard that. Malinformation was something they were trying

to promote during the Biden administration as being dangerous. And it's essentially the truth. I knew the we've got to reconsider the First Amendment. Yeah, I've seen all those clips of that is some scary shit like Senator Kerry, Bill Gates, Hillary Clinton, and do we criminalize people who are promoting this misinformation but I did not hear malinformation. Did you ever see the CEO of NPR doing a TED talk saying that sometimes the truth gets in the way of getting things done? Oh, God, no, but I heard I've heard them all say that. Oh my god. It's an infantilization infantilization of the public because they're too stupid to handle the truth. They're dumber than you. You you're the purveyor of information and you need to give them the information that gets things done and And sometimes you have to lie to them. Like vaccines are safe and effective.

You oh my God, what did you post? I think it was the cover of the New Yorker, but said something about doing away with the First Amendment. Yeah. And I wonderful idea. What the fuck are you talking about? It's not like a number 14, by the way, or number five is a number one. The first amendment.

It's in the way. That to me, when you're having this debate about Kamala versus Trump, I'm like how do you guys have this selective outrage about what's flipping your shit? I want to process for Kilmarr and Braco Garcia who you know probably beats his wife and is a suspect. I get it. I wanted to. Seems like he's got MS-13 tattooed on his knuckles. Yeah, I mean come on and there was a deportation order. Just say it like so you can't. You see the photographs that his wife puts out where she covers his knuckles in every picture? Yes. Yeah. Yes. Hilarious. I mean. So I was saying oh my god they deported a Maryland man and a father because that's what I was reading the news. Same. And then you get into it and you're like oh wait a minute. Oh, hold on. And then they released the dashcam footage, the police footage

of when they arrested him. Not dashcam, you know, whatever the cops are wearing. I know what you're talking about. I thought the exact same thing. It's crazy. But it's just like, you can't just go on narratives because these narratives are just designed to make the Trump administration look like monsters. I was giving an interview to this woman from the New York Times and she's like, but don't you see this? And I was like, I do see it and I don't understand it and I wish it would be different. But then you get into the lesser evils.

I wrote her back and I was like, I don't agree with my previous position based on the current information available to me now. It seems like he was a gang member. But then there was that gay hairdresser that like seems like he just got roped up I know and in what I have learned so far because I've really been trying to get to the bottom of that one because I don't Understand why the left isn't leaning on that one Right other guy beats his wife suspected trafficker early you want to be outraged like this guy is a gay hairdresser I guess he committed I was listening to Tim Poole talk about this, immigration fraud.

So listen, that guy's a tough one. Okay, but that doesn't belong in an El Salvador prison. I agree with you completely. Also, he's not even from El Salvador, which is really crazy. Now, okay, hold on. Here would be the argument there. I think if I'm understanding it correctly, is that if somebody can be deported but they are withheld because of asylum, correct me if

I'm wrong here, because they worry going back to their home country is dangerous or deadly like Killmur or Brego Garcia, because he's not a gang member but he's afraid of being killed by other gangs that aren't MS-13. You caught that one, right? So it's like, I can't go home because the other gangs will kill me, but I'm not a gang member. Nevertheless, there's a deportation order on him, so I believe that they can just send him to a third country, and that's not illegal. That's something I heard. Okay, but just violating immigration fraud when you're a gay you're right dress

You don't throw them in a fucking constant you could not be more right about that But tell me then why is the left not hanging there for me? Why is he not the poster child that guy? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, that's his knuckles. Yeah, look people don't agree that that's what that means. Oh, dude. I've talked to a Guy who's a gang expert two separate courts agreed. I talked to a guy who's a gang expert. Two separate courts agreed. I talked to a guy who's a gang expert to explain it to me. He's like, yeah, this is how it works. There's also an informant who confirmed. There's different versions of MS-13, but that's what it means. Like marijuana, smiley face, Jesus, and then the skull. I don't know, I just, I'm just saying what I've looked online. How is this the last poster child? Okay, you can look online. But I mean, I talked to a gang expert that told me that was explaining to me and there's a bunch of

different versions of gang tattoos. There's two courts that determined he was an MS-13 gang member. The cops had an informant that was an extremely reliable source that said he is MS-13. The guy, the wife was like, he beats me and then withdrew, I guess, but had filed a report. And to the protection order. Yes. The cops pulled the guy over with eight guys in the car going like from Texas to Maryland, I think, or from Texas, Maryland to Texas, no luggage, no tools and suspected him of trafficking. I mean, again, I will simply say, if your didn't apply for a... Why are they hanging their hat on this one and not the gay hairdresser?

I'm asking you that. Would that be your sacrificial lamb? Because I heard Glenn Greenwald talk about the gay hairdresser and that one seems the most compelling. I agree completely. But there's no logic in this world anymore. It's all kooky. Like whatever gets traction, you know? Maybe it's because he's got kids. Oh, it's a father, a Maryland father. You know, like that's what it is. Like I keep saying

wrongly deported Maryland father. Like what? Wrongly why? Tell me why? What's wrong about it? He had a deportation order, a hundred percent, and and then said I am worried that the other gangs will kill me and so that's when they withheld the deportation order but he can be deported to another country legally that's the part that if he's not a gang member why is he worried about being killed by other gangs I would just yeah like this is a common sense piece that we... The whole thing's kooky. I'd hang my hat on the gay hairdresser guy.

It's kooky. I agree with you. It's also, imagine inheriting this problem. You've had open borders for four years and they've let thousands and thousands of potential criminals in here, if not millions. They've let millions of people, who knows how many of these people are suspected terrorists? It's not just one, it's not zero. Okay, so what's the number? I don't know. How many of them are gang members?

Is it zero? No, it's not zero. So they let in gang members. Okay. How many of them are in the cartel? It's not zero. Okay, well what the fuck do you do? What do you do if you want to clean up this mess that has been in mass for four years? Just exactly flooded open borders, not just open borders, but like busing them in flying them in

Giving them debit cards Giving them phones. Oh my god interest-free loans in California Yeah, loopholes the Gavin Newsom has created to give them healthcare. Billions of dollars in healthcare. My friggin 35 year old brother can't get a home loan and can't get healthcare. But his tax dollars. He needs to change his name in Mexico and walk across the border. I told him a couple of times. I was like Greg you know burn the passport babe this will work. You know he's half Latin, he's my half brother. He could get away with it, he looks the part.

It is bananas. And I just- But it's all a political ploy. And the idea that they're not doing it to get votes is crazy, because that's what they're doing. There's a reason why a vast majority of them get moved to swing states.

Like, they're doing it on purpose. I, okay. And Elon has been talking about this as one of the other reasons why they call him a Nazi. I've had this conversation with intelligent people and they're like, well, there's no evidence that they're voting. Okay. But here, if we were to game this all the way out in the, if I was to hit Elon's points that I believe I understand, first of all, I think they can vote in some states in local elections. And Karen Bass becomes Gavin Newsom, becomes God forbid the president of the United States. So there's a reason we've got this whole grassroots thing

going on, I'd imagine. And then I'm told that when they sign up for benefits, they potentially can sign them up to reach out to them to vote. That could be conspiracy theory, though. Very much so. I'm talking out of my ass. I don't know. Right, but it's not a conspiracy that they're giving them social security numbers. Exactly. Oh, did not know that. Yeah, because if you, there's a woman who was explaining when she was working for the social security office what they would have her do. So they would have them get permanent disability. And the way they

get permanent disability is just to have to say you have a back problem. So if you have a back problem, then you have permanent disability. And if you get permanent disability, then they start labeling them as a client. If you label them as a client, then they get money forever. And so if then you have people like Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi and all these people saying, we need to give these people a road to citizenship. Okay. Well, then you have people like Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi and all these people saying we need to give these people a road to citizenship Okay Well, then you potentially have millions and millions of people now if the Democrats are in charge They can change the rules and make it so that these people have a road to citizenship Then they can vote on elections. So now you've imported

Millions of people that are gonna vote for sure for the people who gave the money, not for the people who hired Tom Holman to kick everybody out. Here's another question. Why are you not requiring identification to vote? Because it's racist. Oh! Can you imagine? Well, not only are you not requiring it. In California, you're not allowed to show it.

It is illegal to show your identification when you vote. There's only one reason why you would do that, it's because you want fraud. Exactly, when I ask people who are on the other side, I'm like, game this out for me, steal a man this argument, what is the logic? You see Kathy Holtzschul's logic about that? No.

A lot of these black kids, they don't even know what a computer is. Oh, I have seen that, oh my God, and I saw the black guy making fun of her. Yes, she's like running around the computer. Oh my God. Computer I have seen that oh my god, and I saw the black guy making fun of her Which is the most Races the most racist possibly say by the way every fucking kid has a computer. They all have phones Did you see that video? I think it came out of Prager you Where they were saying like well, you know black people don't they I think was like they don't have access to ID and they can't figure out same thing. It's the most disgustingly racist

thing you can say. What about poor white people that live in West Virginia? So gross. Dirt poor, you know, staggeringly gross. It's crazy. Okay. How about this one? I've also been told that the more people you have in a census, it doesn't matter if they're legal citizens get more representation Yeah, you get more seats. Well, then effectively you can make a president a lame duck if you've got right exactly That's why California is losing seats Because people are escaping That is what it is. It's escaping. I go on record as saying I am pro legal immigration Well, I'm the grandchild of immigrants.

My whole family came from Italy and Ireland. Unless you're a Native American. And when you appreciate the ways in which legal immigration enriches a community, stimulates the economy, and you can control the flow, and as Gad Saad likes to explain, they support their host community when they're brought in legally. But when it's illegal, it overwhelms the infrastructure. You bring in criminals. You don't know who's here.

Suicidal empathy. Brilliant. Yeah, that's what it is. He's such a genius. He's an app. Thanks to you, I know of him. Gad's the best. For many years now.

And I mean, he's an absolute genius. He articulates it like no one else. And he's you know seeing the rise of anti-semitism in Montreal right now and at a staggering rate. I have to admit that I... He's a guy that escaped Lebanon for the same reasons. I do tend to lean. Dave Smith after the show you did the other day I reached out to him and I was like, all right, I gotta tell ya, I've always leaned more pro-Israel

and you opened my mind to a few things and I... Don't become a monster, fight monsters. I won't, an anti-Semite. That's what it is. But that's the thing, it's like, the horrors that you're seeing in Gaza, it's like, okay, you're fighting Hamas, Hamas are monsters, that's right. Yeah.

But like, you didn't let aid into the country. Yeah, it even works. I didn't even know that. They killed aid workers. Yeah, see, yeah. It gets scary. That's when I like. It gets really scary when, you know,

you believe that someone's helping the enemy, so they become the enemy. And it's not that you don't like Jews, like, you know, I'll preface by saying my grandmother ran from the freaking Nazis and according to my 23andMe, 30-something percent Jewish. However, I don't necessarily like Netanyahu and I don't agree with a lot of the ways he's handled it. But it doesn't mean I don't understand what happened. I'm not appalled. I'm not disgusted. I personally think that kid, Mahmoud Khalil, should get the fuck out of here, personally. I'm sorry.

The kid, I could get into that one too. I see all of that and I lean more towards the Israel side. Well, I completely understand how they could look at things the way they are. They're surrounded. They're surrounded by Arab states. And, you know, I mean if you have been attacked relentlessly since the beginning of you know, whatever at 1948 If it's in the Charter, you know kill all Jews. I mean that's Then you see like trans people of Palestine like hey Hey, hey, hey hey hey hey hey hey hey do you fucking know what they would do to you?

Oh my god. I haven't been there. I haven't been there but yeah. It's complicated right? The world is a very complicated thing. It's a nuanced conversation as well. I gotta tell you I was riveted by that debate and both of them made excellent points. I learned a ton. And I changed my mind on some things. I freaking loved it. I thought they both, I'm sorry at the end of the day, I thought they both made great points. I really did.

Yeah, for sure. I just wish that Douglas didn't misrepresent certain people. I understand that. Like Daryl. Like the Daryl gentleman. Yeah, the Dary I just wish that Douglas didn't misrepresent certain people. I understand that. Like Daryl. Like the Daryl gentleman. Yeah, the Daryl thing's crazy. I didn't, I actually never saw that show with him, so I wasn't able to fully comprehend the accusations. And simply thought, like, you can't gatekeep information and people are, if somebody's going to believe that if this was in fact the truth, right, and he

was this guy that was saying Hitler was innocent and, or not innocent, but the lesser evil with regard to Churchill versus Hitler. He definitely wasn't saying that. But what he was really saying that apparently historians also agree with that Hitler kind of hid his anti-Semitism early on and that early on during his rise, he would keep it confined like the really rampant anti-Semitism. He keep it confined to these like smaller meetings. And that yeah keep it confined like the really rampant anti-semitism he keep it confined to these like smaller meetings and that yeah it's like he's like he's Jewish isn't he? Hitler was a Jew wasn't he? I think Hitler was a Jew. What? Jamie will you check that? Hitler was a Jew. Hold on I think so I think he had some Jewish blood check it real quick will ya? I remember hearing something. That sounds crazy. I remember hearing something.

Was it like you believe in the alien race will blonde hair blue eye. Hey, bro That's not you. That's not it. Hold on. I feel like there was some hold on. Oh, is it bullshit? No, he was not Jewish rumors and conspiracy theories have circulated suggesting a Jewish grandfather a Jewish ancestry These claims are not supported by any historical evidence and are widely dismissed Shit the bad on that one. I shit the bet on that one. It's really fascinating because he is the, one of the worst figures in history. Like the, everybody, other than really complete psychopaths

agree with that. Right, that's what I'm saying. One of the worst figures in human history. If you can't disseminate that bit of information, because let's say again, hypothetically this gentleman Darryl was trying to make that point, then you're an idiot. Like if you can't determine, there are skinheads and KKK that are going to tell you the same thing. If you can't determine that that person's fucked up, you're an idiot.

That's not really the argument though. It's like no one's really saying that. No, I know. I'm trying to... I'm suggesting that if the worst case scenario was that. But I appreciate what you're saying. That wasn't his point. And I haven't done any... I have not done any homework on it. He tries to look at things from everybody's view. He tries like, imagine you're this person. Imagine you're a German citizen and you've just gotten through World War I and the whole world hates you. Like imagine this. And then the drug thing is a big part of World War II. It's

a giant part of it. Like the fucking whole army was on meth that is so crazy That is so fucking crazy really you should read blitzed It's really fascinating because they had like a prescription like a over-the-counter meth that you could buy was called the candy thing was it called Purvettan perfect yes, I remember seeing that I was everywhere. Oh, it's nuts. I think it was like a little candy tin Yeah, they were all eating meth It's nuts. And it was like a little candy tin. Yeah, they were all eating meth Super productive that's why they have such great engineers. They're like fucking dialed in, you know Okay, oh god damn

That's bright I take a lot of dark spots here There's a lot of darkness in human history a lot of it a lot of evil a lot of horrible Consequences and a lot of lessons that we really learn but then unlearn and that's what people are terrified of with this like Hitler apologist perspective like Don't unlearn this one huge fucking lesson that, you know, look, a guy like Hitler can exist. They can rise to power and become monsters and destroy countless lives. Like it's impossible to really quantify the amount of damage that guy did. Don't unlearn that.

And I get that. I get that. But don't also label someone as someone who didn't learn that when they're talking about it openly, discussing. I mean, Darryl talks about what a fucking psychotic drug-addled monster Hitler was all the time. Like, it's a part of his stuff. But you would have to actually consume his work. And Douglas admittedly never listened to him. He was just taking this narrative, this like very reductionist narrative that's very incorrect and just saying it over and over again and saying it on Bill Maher to applause breaks. But it's not what he's saying. It's stupid.

I saw that. I did see that. I was kind of disappointed by it. It's okay. It's not, you know, it's not correct. I hear you. Do you find that you fall victim to that sometimes? I see myself do it on occasion where you hear a narrative. Oh, yeah. And I don't dig deeper on it. And it I've been guilty of it a couple of times. I apologize to Bobby Kennedy when he came here because I said, I believed everything about you before I read your book. I thought you were this kook who doesn't believe in vaccines and he's an anti-science guy and a conspiracy

theorist and then I read the real Anthony Fauci I was like oh that book's fucking nuts. And by the way again said it before say it again he would be sued if it wasn't true and it is true and what he did during the just what he did during the AIDS crisis and I know that that they gave him a blanket pardon from everything from 2014. Weird. Weird they choose that date. Weird they choose that date when Obama had decided to get rid of gain of function research. And this motherfucker was like outsourcing it. Yep, he was. Yeah.

You know what's crazy? We're still not having that conversation. No. Not in any meaningful way. Well, at least it's in the White House now that and that page is very comprehensive But it's all right go to that page again because it's kind of really because it trumps in the middle of it like walking Like he's getting shit done That might be how they tricked him into putting On it, that's the irony. I think didn't he Obama put a moratorium on it, and I think Trump lifted the friggin' moratorium. I think it happened.

Oh my gosh. Look at this. Stop! This is awesome. I'm here to take care of business. I got a serious look on my face. And why are they like the true origins of COVID-19, like COVID signed it? Oh my god.

What is that? Why is it a signature? You know what? Cali posted this, and he's like, can any scientist tell me what on this page isn't true? And I kind of thought this was a joke. I thought it was, it was like, No, scroll, scroll, like see the whole thing.

It is explaining the whole thing. The virus possesses, scroll up, virus possesses biological characteristics that is not found in nature. In italics. Data shows that all COVID-19 cases stem from a single introduction into humans. This runs contrary to previous pandemics where there were multiple spillover events. Wuhan is home to China's foremost SARS research lab, which has a history of conducting gain of function research, gene altering and organism supercharging at inadequate biosafety levels.

And this is where Fauci, you know, they could get him on perjury because he was, you know, when he was being questioned, when he said famously to Rand Paul, you do not know what you are talking about. Talking about. Yeah. Look, there is a photo of him With his hand with his you've read the email where he his team obviously is like yo listen This is this is highly suspect. Gain a function research and then after he communicated with them They all change their opinion. For the sake of science and global harmony

Let's not you know pursue this path And then the Nature study came out. Yeah, so you can download the house oversight. Crazy, that looks like a report my daughter would put together by the way for high school. Yeah, it's so crazy. But what's even more amazing is that each and every one of those points is exactly what Brett Weinstein laid out

on your show in March of 2020. Yeah, yeah. And I remember. And he was labeled a grandma killer. I pulled the freaking car over and started googling shit on the side of Pacific Coast Highway. Yeah. And that was my neo moment in The Matrix.

That was it. I was forever gone. Took the red pill. I'm glad you took it. And it was over, man. I'm glad you're on the right side of things. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir.

Thanks for being here. I really enjoyed talking to you, too. It was a lot of fun. Thank you for having me And it was over, man. I'm glad you're on the right side. Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Thanks for being here. I really enjoyed talking to you, too. It was a lot of fun. Thank you for having me. Keep fighting the good fight. I will.

You too. Thank you. All right. Bye, everybody.