The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast - 494. 14,000 Minors, $120 Million: A Pediatric Medical Scandal | Dr. Jared Ross

Episode Date: October 31, 2024

Dr. Jordan B. Peterson sits down with Dr. Jared Ross from the Do No Harm organization. They discuss the horrifying - and true - statistics around transgender care, the 12 children’s hospitals most responsible for pushing this ideology on children, the specifics of the surgeries involved, and what over 12,000 concerned physicians, victims, and citizens are doing in response. Jared has been a first responder, EMT, paramedic, firefighter, SWAT team member, and an Emergency Medical Services educator. When the organization “Do No Harm” spoke with him, he had just returned from providing on-site safety and medical services at the Arizona Flying Circus, an event with aviation, pyrotechnics, flame throwers, and firearms. The week after, he planned to work in an emergency room at a city hospital. The scope of scenarios that Jared encounters in these environments is wide, but they all have one thing in common: They are urgent. He worries the creep of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) into the medical field will poison the dynamic between people in crisis and those trying to save them. This episode was filmed on October 14th, 2024  | Links | For Dr. Jared Ross: On X https://x.com/jared999?lang=en Do No Harm website https://donoharmmedicine.org/ Stop the Harm Database https://stoptheharmdatabase.com/ 

Hello everybody. I had the disconcerting privilege today of speaking with Dr. Jared Ross. Dr. Ross has aligned himself with an organization called Do No Harm, which is a group of 12,000 people involved in the medical profession who are bringing to light the practices of gender-affirming treatment, so to speak, to minors in the United States. And about a week ago, it's mid-October now when this is filmed, about a week ago, this organization, Do No Harm, released its first database. And it was a bombshell, as far as I'm concerned.

Here's their methodology. Do No Harm assessed insurance claim data from 2019 to 2023, compiling what sex change-related treatments were being administered to minors and at what hospitals. Sex-change-related treatments are bodily surgeries, hormones, puberty blockers. Dudo harm's analysis focused exclusively on patients below 17 and a half years old and included only confirmed cases of gender transition related treatments. Okay, what'd they find? This is a conservative estimate because they don't have access to the databases that track all surgical cases. 14,000 miners underwent sex change treatments across nearly 2,000 hospitals. 14,000 miners, about 6,000 of them received sex change

surgeries. That's double mastectomy, castration, the creation of a vagina, of artificial vagina, a surgical wound really. 63,000 cross-sex hormones and puberty blocker prescriptions written for 9,000 minors. 120 million dollars. And there's the rub. Submitted, submitted charges to insurance. So, what did we talk about? We talked a little bit about Dr. Ross's own personal experience as a physician subjected to the tender mercies of the DEI ideologues, but we talked mostly about the utter brutality and unforgivable nature of this insane, brutal, malevolent gender affirmation movement that is resulting in the physical and psychological destruction of thousands of miners who cannot give informed consent, not properly, to this kind of treatment. These are crimes against humanity

that are being perpetrated en masse in the United States. So listen and learn. So Dr. Ross, you're with an organization known as Do No Harm, which seems under the present circumstances to be a strange, a strange organization for physicians to be involved in. Horrible as that is, although we could say the same about psychologists, that's for sure. So, and you guys launched a bombshell a week ago. I thought it was a bombshell. Tell us

about it. Yes, so we've only been around for two years. We've got over 12,000 members now, physicians, other healthcare providers, policymakers, members of the concerned public. And we launched our database last week, Stop the Harm Database. last week, Stop the Harm Database. And we all know this radical gender ideology that's taking hold of our children and their parents who are desperate for answers. But we were never able to really quantify this problem. And there was always the counter-argument

that this wasn't happening or minimizing it. to quantify this problem. And there was always the counter argument that this wasn't happening or minimizing it. So we undertook this massive project to quantify exactly how big this problem is. So let me list some of the things that you discovered. So you launched a database. Was it a spreadsheet? Like what form is the database in exactly?

The database is actually a beautiful website. It's very easy to navigate. And where is it? Stoptheharmdatabase.org. Stoptheharmdatabase.org. Yes. Okay, I'm going to read some of the things you guys found. Yeah, there's a bunch of things about this

that really annoy me, outrage me. Like it's way past annoying. Like this is the worst thing that I've ever seen the medical profession do, I think. And my colleagues in the counseling fields are equally to blame, I would say. And so, yeah, so the issue is children are being gender-affirmed, which is one of the most pathological phraseologies I've ever seen the woke mob manage to formulate.

Because gender-affirmed means put on puberty blockers, mutilated and sterilized. And in what bloody universe that constitutes gender affirmation is a complete miracle. Predicated on the idea that gender and sex are separate, a claim for which there is no psychometric evidence whatsoever, right? So that's a complete false claim from a psychological perspective,

from a measurement perspective. And also predicated on the idea that sex is somehow assigned at birth rather than a biological reality and that children can decide for themselves when they're too young to perform, to offer informed consent, that somehow they're in the wrong bodies and that the proper treatment for that is radical hormonal treatment mutilation and sterilization Okay So now and then the response by the gender affirming ideologues who are the same bloody

Rainbow mob of left-wing ideologues that we've been contending with for years. The response to them to, this is happening and shouldn't be to minors, is that's a right-wing conspiracy and delusion. Okay, so let's just see what you found. 14,000 minors, give or take six, underwent six changed treatments across nearly 2,000 hospitals and medical facilities between 2019 and 2023. So that's 14,000.

And what do you think of that number? How close an approximation do you think that is to the total number of minors who've undergone such treatments? I mean, you've that is to the total number of miners who've undergone such treatments? I mean, you've been able to document the ones who submitted claims to insurance, $120 million worth of claims, by the way. So now we have, you have provided stark evidence that it's 14,000 miners and that the sum total take on this is 120 million dollars.

Well, so now we've established what might you describe it as? We've established motive. That's for sure. And I read a brief two years ago. Some marketing company had produced it describing gender affirming care, especially on the surgical front as a growth industry. I think there were projections where 15% growth per year. And so if you happen to be the kind of bloodthirsty, sadistic plastic surgeon who figured that your practice, especially if you were incompetent, wasn't exactly doing what you think it might,

then you could certainly turn to preying on children. It's also the case, by the way, this is something known on the psychometric front, that sadists are overrepresented among surgeons. Now, that doesn't mean that all surgeons are sadists, but it does mean that if you are a sadist, that's a pretty fine profession to undertake. Okay, so 14,000 minors and $120 million in submitted charges to insurance. So how accurate a reflection do you think of the scope? Is that of the scope of the problem? This is just the tip of the iceberg. We were very, very conservative with our methodology

and we only had access to external VA, Medicare, Medicaid, and private insurance. We didn't have access to massive factories for this, such as the Kaiser system in California. We didn't have access to charity care. We didn't have access to patients that pay cash or their parents who pay cash. And I hate to demonize the parents there. I think these are parents that are desperate looking for answers for children. No, I think we'll demonize them too.

I think so. I mean, one of the things that I, look, I understand that parents, this happened with Elon Musk, for example, I understand that parents were informed often by psychologists, something along the line of, would you rather have a live sex transformed child or a dead child?

And I heard that and I thought, that's the biggest lie. Maybe the biggest lie from quasi medical and medical professionals I've ever heard because I knew perfectly well there was absolutely no justification for that claim. First of all, it's actually technically impossible to make that claim because even if the suicide rate is higher among children with gender confusion, you have to control for the a priori presence of depression and anxiety, which are by far the better predictors of suicide. Absolutely.

And there's no way of doing that because you can't figure out which comes first, the gender dysphoria, whatever that is, or the depression and anxiety. And the rule of thumb for anybody who's remotely informed on the diagnostic front is you start with the depression and anxiety, because that's just generalized negative emotion. And then you attribute some proportion of what's left over to whatever the particular psychological problem happens to be. And so the idea that there was an elevated suicide risk that was specific to gender dysphoria,

it was like, yeah, I don't think so. And then the additional absurdity of the claim that the best way to treat confused, anxious, depressed, gender dysphoric, unpopular, attention seeking adolescents was to brutalize them with surgery that is experimental and also counterproductive, plus the puberty blockers and the sterilization. It's like, that's the devil's nightmare. So, okay, so we can have some sympathy for the parents because this is what they are being informed. But then, you know, that's tempered for me

because there is the narcissistic parent who is more than happy to do whatever they need to, to make their child a burden so they can parade their bloody moral virtue around to their friends. And if you don't think that that's part of this epidemic, you haven't lived in the world of genuine psychopathology. So, you know, I have some sympathy for the parents

and I know people too, whose children were caught up in this gender transformation epidemic. But, but, but, you know, the parents have a duty to protect their children, right, including against overreaching physicians and demented social workers and pathological cowardly psychologists. And there's a terrible failure of parental interaction here. So anyways, sorry to rant about that. This starts in the schools, I think we've seen, and we saw during the pandemic, that this is all being indoctrinated in our public schools and that children are being held out as being, you know, quote unquote, gender diverse. And so it's a great way for a child who maybe doesn't fit in

or is being bullied to become the favorite of the teacher, to stand out, to be celebrated. Absolutely. Absolutely. And children need to be celebrated. I mean, you know better than I do. Yes, they should be celebrated for their accomplishments. Exactly, exactly.

Not for this perverse identity politics that we're pushing onto them. Well, it's also, you can see why it's attractive to confuse young women in particular. So I interviewed Chloe Cole, who's a detransitioner, and she had her breasts removed, I think. Yes, I know Chloe well. The surgery, the wounds never really healed. So that's a nightmare. And I asked her like very simple clinical questions. You know, I said, Chloe, when you were unhappy,

did anyone sit you down and say, you know, negative emotion increases among young women when they hit puberty, reliable finding, anxiety, depression, and just generalized negative emotion, whether it's hormonal, what the cause of that is, we don't know. But boys and girls have about the same levels of negative emotion.

When the girls hit puberty, their negative emotion levels rise and they never really go back down. And it's likely because women become sexually vulnerable at puberty, boys get bigger and stronger, women have to be more sensitive to the distress of their children, and you see that reflected not only differences in neuroticism, let's say, which is general sensitivity to negative emotion, but the findings worldwide, epidemiologically, that women are two to four times more likely to be diagnosed with depression and anxiety.

So I asked her, did anybody just tell you that there's some high probability that your negative emotion levels would spike at puberty? No. Did anybody tell you that among women, because this is also true, one of the most common manifestations of negative emotion is bodily self-consciousness?

And that that's particularly true for pubertal girls. Surprise, surprise, like that's not a mystery to anyone. She said, no, no one, these are elementary psychological facts, right? Anybody with the vaguest of diagnostic ability would, will at least lay that out to the person in question. So, all right. So you have these unhappy children that you referred to

and then they're offered a solution to their misery, or an explanation for it first, while you're miserable, not because of the complexities of development and the fact that you're alienated and isolated, you're not very popular, you don't know how to fit in, and now your body is doing strange things, right? And God only knows what sort of attention

that's attracting to you or not. But, so there's no, they're offered an alternative explanation for that, conjoined with the promise that if you just wander down the hormonal and surgical treatment route, all your problems will magically disappear. All the while, as you pointed out, that much more attention is being showered on them.

It's particularly true of children who've never been paid any attention to by anyone than they would normally get. So it's a devil's brew, a witch's brew, a witch's brew for alienated 12-year-olds. So, you know, I really feel bad for the kids now. And especially these kids who are coming from broken homes or have, you know, have a history of sexual abuse

or demons in their closet, right? They're especially vulnerable. But I think what we've seen from this movement is they're just able to capture every child. I mean, puberty is a time of angst. We all go through that. We all went through that. And the answer to puberty length

is to go through puberty and probably some good talk therapy. But talk therapy is too simple. It's too inexpensive. It doesn't build and further this ideology. It's not a silver bullet. It's also a field that's become corrupt. It's become corrupt because as we'll talk about the DEI mavens have reached their fingers in. In Canada, I don't know if this legislation was passed or these regulations were passed, but I believe it was I

these regulations were passed. But I believe it was, I believe it was the Canadian Psychological Association. I'm not certain. It was one of the major organizations that, that certify clinical psychology training programs in Canada. So, and they put forth the proposition that any clinical training program that didn't have a social justice orientation was to be scrubbed from the certification roles. So that's a complete bloody catastrophe. So then you have woke psychologists, then what's worse, I don't know if it's as bad in Canada and US,

but I suspect so, because there's not much difference between what's happening in the two countries. You're really bound by law in Canada to lie to parents and to children if you're a mental health professional or a physician, because the legislation in Canada is now written so that if you discriminate on the basis of gender identity or expression, which is fashion, literally, then that's not only a violation of the law, it's a hate crime. So what that means practically is that if you take your distressed 13-year-old to see a psychologist, a psychiatrist, or an MD, unless they're the bravest of individuals, the easiest pathway for them to say is, to

take is, well, what do you think should happen? That's the identity that the child has themselves, you know, to question that. Well, I think I should be on puberty blockers. Two of my friends are. They seem much happier. It's like, well, you know, you've known since you were two what sex you were, what gender you were. It's like on with the testosterone. And then this is even worse, I think.

Maybe. Testosterone decreases anxiety. So if you take confused girls and you give them testosterone, they're gonna feel more confident. And so then they think, well, obviously it worked because look, I feel better. And then one more thing we might point out, why is this something that particularly affects girls?

Well, first, we know that women are more likely to express negative emotion in the form of bodily self-consciousness. Everybody who's trained clinically knows that. And if they don't know it, they haven't been trained well. And second, girls hit puberty younger. So they're less arguably, well, they've certainly had less experience in the world by the time they hit puberty than boys who hit it a couple of years later. And also the pressure's higher on them, you know, because sex is way more dangerous to girls than it is to boys. So and they're more likely to be preyed upon too.

So God, brutal. Okay, so your organization said, let's just get these facts exactly right. Approximately 6,000 minors received sex change surgery, so we'll delve into that. And 63,000 cross sex hormones and puberty blocker prescriptions written for 9,000 minors. Right now, we also know from the clinical literature,

from what I've been able to establish that you're pretty likely to proceed down the surgical route if you've already proceeded down the sex hormone and puberty blocker route. You don't even need to get that far down this pathway, just that harmless social transition of changing pronouns, changing clothing, changing names. That leads to puberty blockers, which leads to cross-sex hormones, which leads to these

mutilative, irreversible surgeries and these lifelong patients who are, of course, very profitable to this medical industrial complex. Yeah, yeah, well, and let's talk, let's talk about the surgeries, and let's do that in some graphic detail, because that's fun. You know, I talked to Michael Schellenberger, who broke the WPATH story.

WPATH, for everybody who doesn't know, was an organization of hypothetically medical professionals, which is, and it wasn't an organization and whatever those people were, they certainly weren't medical professionals. And they set up a system of so-called guidelines that all the major psychological and medical organizations kowtowed in like seconds flat

and accepted their pronouncements, which had no basis whatsoever in fact, as doctrine. Right, so that's entertaining. You talk about WPATH in the past, but even though Schellenberger has released the WPATH files, they're still very actively involved and they have the American Medical Association, the American Nursing Association, the American

Nursing Association, the American Psychological Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, yes. All on their side. They're still, and they've got our Department of Health and Human Services, our taxpayers are funding, Admiral Levine is involved with them. Oh yeah, Rachel Levine. Right, right. Who isn't Rachel?

Who's a man, right? And a demented man at that, and a dangerous demented man, furthermore, right? And who's responsible personally for furthering this pattern of utter butchery, right? And he's a major player in the Biden administration. And we could expect a hell of a lot more of the same

under any Harris administration. So that's good and terrifying. So Schellenberger, I did a podcast with Abigail Schrier. Abigail Schrier, yes. That was the first podcast I did after I'd been ill and I was just terrified because you couldn't say any of this publicly without, well especially if you you're a psychologist without getting your license threatened, as mine is, for exactly such reasons. Shrier detailed out the surgeries to some degree and a fair bit in her book. And Schellenberger watched that podcast

and he told me that he just couldn't believe it. You know, it was so awful, he couldn't believe it could be possibly true. And I think that's what people think. And so when they hear, well, this never happens. It's a right-wing conspiracy. It's like, well, that's a hell of a lot easier to believe than that there are 12 major children's hospitals in the United States who are radically profiting off performing, conducting experiments that are as bad in their essence as anything

the Nazis had managed in the Auschwitz in the concentration camps, right? Or even maybe the Japanese in Unit 731. It's bad. And so Schoenberger said he just couldn't believe it. So let's talk about the surgeries, because that's such fun. So if you want to have... It's the new lobotomy. I mean, it really is.

It's worse than lobotomies, I think. And when we talk about 12, we've selected our dirty dozen children's hospitals. And don't quote me on the number, but I believe there's over 60 children's hospitals across the country that are performing this care, these hormones and surgeries.

And what we realized is that less than 10% of this is actually happening at the children's hospitals. They're shifting this out into the private surgery centers and out into the community to try to get the spotlight off of the children's hospitals. So we do want to highlight those. Absolutely. Right. Well, and there's also something else too, that with regards to the puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones, there's an active movement online to provide black or gray market prescriptions to young people so they can get the cross-sex hormones without having to undergo the interference

of the parents who don't care, or the physicians who have enough sense not to do it. So God only knows how extensive this really is. All right, so let's say, what do you have to do to build a penis for a woman? Well, you have to close up her vagina for starters, which is, I would say, a rather brutal thing to do. And then you have to remove the skin and the flesh

of an arm or a leg, which leaves essentially a skin-wrapped bone, like a hideously mutilating procedure. Hidious. You know, worn as a badge of pride, let's say, by the children who've been sacrificed to this movement. Then they make this tube of flesh that hypothetically constitutes a penis,

but has like none of the function thereby that produces exactly the kinds of terrible complications you would presume. Internal hair growth, that's a fun one. Plus the ever present, not a risk, but almost certainty of infection. And then, of course, the vaginoplasty is the reverse. So the boys are castrated, their penises are inverted. Or they take a section of the colon and use that. Oh yeah, there's a wise choice. There's a wise choice. So now you have abdominal surgery to boot and that's the tissue that you use. Right. And then

we're supposed to believe somehow that what you produce as a consequence of this utter butchery is something approximating, let's say, a vagina, a vulva, which is utterly preposterous. That's a very, very complex organ, very complex, very sophisticated. And the idea that it's somehow replaced by a surgical wound and that the creation of a surgical wound now means that a man or a boy has been transformed into a girl or a woman is it's a lie in so many dimensions that it's a kind of miracle that I just can't believe we've got here. And in your data. It's very clear that it's a surgical wound because these boys then have to maintain that by dilating, inserting larger and larger plastic dildos into these vaginas for hours upon hours for days and weeks and months.

It's a lifelong commitment. And if they don't continue that commitment, the stricture start developing. The body rejects this foreign orifice and they start closing up on them. Right. Or healing as it's often known. Yes, healing. Right. Right, healing. Right, right, right. Okay, so let's take stock here. Well, it's not not happening and it's actually not rare, right?

So you've documented 14,000. 14,000 is a lot. We turned the country upside down five years ago for lesser crimes for the black men who are being shot by policemen, let's say, in nowhere, bloody well, nowhere near those numbers, I can say. And the idea that this is a moral crime of lesser magnitude is who the only way you can harbor that delusion is if you've been unwilling to actually look at what's going on. And I can see why people don't because who can believe it?

But you documented it, right? And as we said, you've only shone a light on the tip of the iceberg. Because you could only get access to a certain number of these surgeries. And then, so now they are happening and in the thousands and tens of thousands, right? And not only are they happening, they're super profitable.

Right, and not only are they happening to minors who cannot provide this kind of informed consent. So that's a violation of the Nuremberg Code as far as I'm concerned. I truly believe these are crimes against humanity. I truly believe that. And that the people who were involved should be tried like the perpetrators of the Nazi horrors

were tried at Nuremberg. And I don't think it'll stop till that happens. And you also said, now that you're starting to shine a light on this, they're going underground, which is exactly what you'd expect. So, all right, all right. So tell me more about Do No Harm. Who are you and why shouldn't someone be suspicious of your data, your credibility? Who are these 12,000 people who are involved and how did the project get going? Yes, so do you know how I'm started just over two years ago,

Dr. Stanley Goldfarb, who was a very well-known professor at the University of Pennsylvania, a nephrologist and involved with the medical school, also an editor of the go-to reference guide for physicians started to push back on this encroachment of DEI into medical school, into the selection of students and residents and doctors. We had this erosion of meritocracy

that we were no longer selecting. And again, I'm speaking in the past, but I should be speaking in the present tense, that we have this erosion in medicine of ideology, of skin color and melanin content over merit. Okay, so let's take that apart a little bit, because skeptical listeners might say, well, merit is just the imaginary constructions of an oppressive patriarchy.

Let's say you screen for SATs to let people into medical school or the MCAT. Okay, the MCATs are basically tests of general cognitive ability. Okay, there's no difference between that and intelligence. And so intelligence isn't merit in relationship to doctors if you think it's okay for doctors to be stupid. Right. It's as simple as that. And the data on such prediction shows clearly this is the most powerful statistical result in the social sciences. There is nothing that predicts long-term success in complex jobs than

general cognitive ability. It predicts five times better than the next best predictor, which is conscientiousness, which also these pikers don't assess and To generate a contrary proclamation you have to presume that there's no relate there's no such thing as intelligence and that Intelligence has no bearing on the performance of physicians. So that's preposterous. And then you also have to overlook the fact that cognitive tests themselves were first used, early used on a broad level by socialists in the UK who believe that if you could screen alienated populations, poor populations, for general cognitive ability, you could open the door to their advancement

in the school system in the UK and you could give the deserving poor their opportunity to move upward and benefit society by doing so. Which happened, same thing happened in the armed forces in the United States. So the general cognitive tests were actually a means of social mobility for the very oppressed that the bloody leftists are always clamoring about, right? And so then the third thing you have to accept if you're going to swallow this DEI nonsense is that if you dispense with merit objectively assessed, then what you get is greater equity. But the historical data show that there are three standard means of providing access to desirable jobs in any society.

There's merit, there's dynasty, so family membership starts to become important, and there's nepotism, who you know. That's it, those three. Dispense with merit, you get nepotism and dynasty. Okay, so what does Harvard do to enlibe this system? They use false measures of so-called personality to racially gerrymander their selection criteria. That's that far away from nepotism, right? Because someone in that organization is making a subjective judgment about fit.

And as soon as you have subjective judgment instead of objective data, you open the door to corruption and you destroy the universities, the medical system and the psychological training system and then children's lives and then patients' lives, right? So that's where we are. Yeah. I love that phrase, racially gerrymandering. And we've seen the devastation that this has had on the UCLA medical school, where the shelf exams,

these standardized exams that are taken throughout the course of medical school, their pass rates have just plummeted at UCLA. And they're waving their hands saying, you know, we need to get rid of these shelf exams. Of course we do. Of course we do. You get rid of merit. Well, look, one of the ways of understanding this practically and psychologically is that this is actually an assault on merit itself. And you might ask yourself, well, who wants to launch an assault on merit? And

the answer is people who lack merit because they can get access to the storehouses of value that were merit defined in the absence of merit, especially if they're in a position to pull the levers of power and decide who gets in and who doesn't. Right, so it's an inversion of the merit structure and the universities are to blame for this. I saw my own psychology department at the University of Toronto suspended the GRE for selection of students for a couple of years because then they figured out what the hell happened.

Right, even though, like if you're a psychologist and you're so daft that you don't know that there's a higher correlation between general cognitive ability and performance in complex tasks, then you know nothing, right? That's a psychometrically unassailable fact. And if you dispute that, it was discovered, that fact was discovered by the statisticians

who established all the statistics that the social and medical sciences use. So if you deny that elementary fact, you pretty much have to throw the whole bloody enterprise out the window. And of course they're perfectly willing to do that. So, okay, so back to these, you talked about the founder. Okay, so this is Goldfarb. Yes.

And you said that he was one of the authors of standard medical text. Yes, it's an online text as we move, medicine has moved into the 21st century. Right. Yes, but he was ousted from that and ousted from his position. And because he spoke out and said, look at how our emphasis on skin color, again, we live in a world where everything's upside down. We're quoting MLK as racist,

and instead we have to embrace anti-racism, where we judge people based on the color of their skin. Little hard on the Asians, as it turns out. Yes. And we should just make a detour there because there's another form of stupidity that is associated with this that's quite profound. So if you're concerned with the unfair distribution of power, then you're concerned that there's too bloody many Asians and Jews, let's say, just to put it bluntly, right? And you say, well,

those Asians and Jews, they're overrepresented in medical school, and that's hardly fair. And then you think, well, wait a second here. What makes you think that these bloody jobs are rewards? They're not rewards. Those tests are so that society itself can find the smartest people and exploit them. That's the point. Right now, the payoff for the people that are exploited is, well, they get to have a relatively high status and well-paying job. But the advantage to everyone else is, your surgeon isn't an idiot. Yeah, and that turns out to be relative or your psychiatrist for that matter, because they can do plenty of damage

when they're not qualified. In fact, they can tell you and your young child that if they don't have their breasts cut off by a sadist, that their risk for suicide will increase. Right, that's what happens when you move away from merit. Okay, so Goldfarb, what happened to him? Yeah, so he was ousted from the University of Pennsylvania and ousted from his position with this publisher.

And so that was a motivating factor for him to found the organization. Initially focused on restoring medicine to the Hippocratic oath. Yeah, first do no harm. Exactly. Which is also what's like, same thing with psychologists. Like social scientists in general,

the first rule of thumb is don't be thinking your stupid intervention won't cause more harm than good. Just because your intent is good, that's irrelevant. Things are complex and they go wrong a lot more ways than good, right? Just because your intent is good, that's irrelevant. Things are complex and they go wrong a lot more ways than they go right. So at minimum, here I got a question for you. Tell me what you think about this since we're waving scimitars in the direction of the medical profession. Medical error is the third leading cause of death or fourth, depending on how you calculate it.

That's a lot. It's like heart disease, cancer, doctors. Okay, so then, and then I think, well, hospitals are breeding grounds for epidemic pathology, because putting sick people together with, where bacteria can breed in the presence of compromised immune systems, it's probably not the wisest idea.

And so I think, is there any epidemiological evidence that the medical profession does less harm than damage? And that's a serious question. That's a serious question. And I'm not saying that in a position of superiority being a psychologist, because I think the counseling industry has become pathologized to the point where I wouldn't recommend, certainly wouldn't recommend that a confused adolescent goes and sees a mental health professional, especially

not a social worker, but also not a psychologist or a psychiatrist, bound as they are to not violate these insane laws, these insane laws. Okay, so Goldfarb established this based on the Hippocratic oath, and who's joined? Yes, so in two years, we've got over 12,000 members. We celebrated 10,000, and boy, as soon as we turned around from celebrating that, we were up at 12,000 members. We celebrated 10,000 and boy, as soon as we turned around from celebrating that, we were up at 12,000. Again, we've got physicians, but we've got other healthcare providers. We've

got nurses. We've actually got a very vocal group of nurses. We've got nurse practitioners, physician assistants. We've got mental health professionals, psychologists, psychiatrists, social workers, psychologists, psychiatrists, social workers. And we've got politicians and policymakers. We've got parents. We have detransitioners like Chloe Cole that you mentioned. So it's a broad group and we don't deny membership to anyone. We welcome everyone into the fold.

And how long have you been involved? I've been involved as a member for going on a year now and been involved as a senior fellow for about six months. Okay, what does a senior fellow do? So the senior fellows are appointments within the organization to work on specific issues, and I've been very lucky to be able to be on both sides of the house.

So I mentioned that Dr. Goldfarb started the organization to restore medicine to meritocracy and to taking care of patients, taking care of that individual human, doing the best you can for them, not being concerned about their skin color or their ethnicity or their heritage, but taking care of that patient. And then the organization expanded to combat this harmful, radical gender ideology and to protect minors

from this gender ideology, this pathway, this silver bullet that we talk about with the social affirmations, the puberty blockers, the cross-sex hormones, and then these awful mutilative surgeries. So we've got both sides there. And I'm in the position to work on both sides, on both issues. So what's your background?

My background is in as emergency medicine physician. I'm also a medical school university professor. Which university? I'm at the University of Missouri. And how come you still have a job? I'm in a state thankfully that doesn't interfere with my freedom of speech. How are your colleagues reacting to what you're doing?

Well, I have to disclaim and say that I'm speaking my own opinion and not speaking on behalf of the university. Fair enough. But I have been lucky that I have not had any pushback. Yeah, that's good. That's good. Well, we'll see what we can manage in today's show. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So why, so how has your life changed, your professional practice changed, for example, as a consequence of being involved much more deeply in this organization, and why did it change? Well, I became involved in the organization after I was working on my continuing education for the American Board of Emergency Medicine.

So physicians get licensure, but also get board certified in specific specialties and subspecialties. And those board certifications need to be renewed every five to 10 years. So I was logging on to try to chip away at that process and part of what I had to do was sign on to a professionalism code. Oh yes, well. I looked through it quickly and it looked fine to me but there was one thing that caught my eye that I would make every effort and I'm paraphrasing here to mitigate conscious

and unconscious bias. Oh yeah, psychologists are to blame for that, by the way too, particularly although not uniquely at Harvard, right, with the implicit association test, which is a test that has nowhere near the reliability or the validity to be utilized for diagnostic purposes. Created not by clinical psychologists, but by social psychologists who had no business messing

in the diagnostic realm, particularly given that it's actually a professional, it's a professional crime to do so. The implicit, by implicit association test, which is an interesting test, conceptually speaking, doesn't produce results that are stable enough within the same person or that predict any behavior enough to be classified as of diagnostic utility. Nonetheless, the creators of the tests, although a couple of them have backed off in recent

years, have benefited substantially, let's say on the professional front, in consequence of the misuse of these tests as diagnostic indicators by proxy, right? There's such a thing as implicit racial bias. It's like, maybe, maybe there is, maybe there's such a thing as novelty aversion, right? Because most people are more familiar with people of their own race than people of a different race. Surprise, surprise. Or what else?

What are the other? Well, there's a certain degree of in-group preference that characterizes human beings. Right? Because we care more for our parents and our children than we do for someone else's parents or children, even though they might be friends. There's all sorts of things that might account for our in-group preference, right? And not all of those are reprehensible. Implicit, implicit bias. And then, well, it's worse

pertaining to these bloody professional organizations. So here's the theory. This is a truly stupid psychological theory. So let's say that you have implicit bias. Okay, so it operates very early on in the cognitive processing chain. Okay, you've learned implicit bias because you picked it up implicitly as a consequence to all the exposure of the racist society that you find yourself in. Hundreds of micro examples of racial bias. It's locked into your nervous system, implicitly. Okay, so how do we treat that?

We have you take an explicit course of instruction once, and we presume that the implicit bias, which was only established as a consequence of indefinite practice, has now been modified. Even though there is zero evidence for that, and actually a fair bit of evidence for the contrary, if you start highlighting racial disparity, etc., and torturing people because of their implicit bias, real or imagined, there is decent evidence that that actually enhances racial tension. So, yeah.

So now the professional organizations require you as a condition of your continuance to act as if, to sign documents proclaiming that you accept this as fact and a moral obligation. to sign documents proclaiming that you accept this as fact that I'm in a moral obligation. That I'm mitigating something that I don't believe exists. And I think your thoughts about in-group preference, I would even expand upon that and say this out-group homogeneity that we,

if you look at sociology, we have six or seven million years of human evolution, where we were primarily hunter gatherer tribes. And so for us, from a social perspective, it was important for me to know who was in my tribe and what their social status was. But it wasn't so important for me to at a distance be able to identify who that out group member was. In fact, if I saw someone who was an outgroup, my startle response needed to be aware

that this may represent a threat. It might not, but we have millions of years of human evolution to have this preference towards those who are alive. Towards familiarity. And that's not necessarily harmful. And what's happened is this ideology has been twisted and this political game created to say, we're gonna take human evolution, evolutionary biology,

and pervert it around a social idea to institute racism. We're gonna teach you to be racist. We're gonna teach you to judge people on the color of their skin, on the melanin content of their skin. Under the guise of addressing racism. And this only is looked at in one direction, right? Outgroup homogeneity occurs from all races.

Any race might say, of course, so this is just human nature. This isn't malicious, but it's been manufactured to be this. Well, it also can be malicious, but that doesn't mean that the default is malicious. And it doesn't mean that we understand the relationship. Like, I believe that people have to work to overcome their familiarity bias. That's why we have objective tests, is to work to overcome our familiarity bias.

Seriously, that's kind of the meaning of objective tests. So it's pretty damn hilarious that exactly the proponents of the implicit bias hypothesis are also the ones that reject objective tests. It's like, geez guys, is there no camel so big that you can't swallow it? And the answer to that is clearly, clearly no, clearly no. Right, okay, so you had this experience, then what happened? Yes, so I joined as a member of Do No Harm. How did you find out about it?

It was just, you know, I think that's a very good question. I don't know that I remember back a year ago, I should. But I was just kind of watching the email list and I was not very involved. And then eventually I reached out with my experience with the American Board of Emergency Medicine and was immediately brought into the fold. I was featured in a newsletter

and then had the opportunity to become more involved with the organization at a conference in Oklahoma City and meet some of the members of the organization, including Dr. Goldfarb, and was just enthralled, was really passionate about both of these issues. Why? You know, on the gender side, it's kind of interesting.

I grew up in Southern California, and in my junior year of high school, I was taking a social studies course and was exposed to John Stossel. I know you identify with the libertarian movement or classical liberalism and I think Stossel is an amazing example of that. And he was talking in this 1980s or early 90s documentary about gender roles and gender non-conforming and women in the workplace. And so I became very interested in that and interested in the sociological aspects of that

and started researching it more. And that led me into the biological side of sex and sex differentiation. And then I stumbled upon the intersex community or disorders of sex differentiation, which is often what we see these trans ideologues pointing to to say, you know, there are not just men and women,

there are people in the middle. And we know that these are not people in the middle, that these are disorders of differentiation, that these are males that didn't develop properly or females that didn't develop properly. You might not be able to tell externally. Well it's also the case that just because there are exceptions to a category that you don't demolish the whole category you'd have to demolish every category and I actually think that there is

pressure in a way especially by the postmodernist types to do exactly that just to demolish categories in general and I also think that if you can get people to swallow the lie that a man can become a woman with surgical alteration and that's all there is to do all there is to it there's no lie that people won't swallow because I think I don't think that there's any more fundamental perceptual category than sex. I think it's more fundamental than up and down or even light and dark. I mean, sex evolved a long time ago, way before there were nervous systems, way before. And so, and any creature who couldn't sex differentiate, I would say, had a little trouble reproducing.

So, it's pretty fundamental. So you blow that... In fact, it's so fundamental that it's used by most symbolic systems as the basis by which other dichotomies are categorized in the Taoist tradition. It's yin and yang, which is feminine and masculine.

Right? And so you use the differentiation between men and women, female and male, female and male, feminine and masculine even more what? Deeply to organize your perceptions of the world as such. So yeah, yeah, yeah, brutal. Okay, so you so the the fact that there are exceptions to it to an ideal that's irrelevant. That's true of every possible category system. So that's no proof whatsoever.

Okay, so you got interested in this and- I got interested in this and I think what we saw at the time, which was the early 2000s, was that there was a big push from the medical establishment to correct these anatomical anomalies, to perform surgeries on these children. And there were vocal grown-up people with disorders of sex differentiation or what we called intersex who said, no, no, no, stop mutilating the kids. Let them grow up, figure this out. There's no rush to

figure this out, there's no rush to fix this, to make them conform. And so I became very interested in this idea of how does biology interplay with sociology, with society. And I went down a very deep rabbit hole with that. Myself as a Jew, I kind of came to this realization that we were mutilating baby boys in the name of religion and also in the name of culture and tradition as well. And so for me as now a physician,

but it was really an idea of autonomy, bodily autonomy, that we were taking autonomy from a child, from someone who didn't have the ability to give informed consent and performing unnecessary. These aren't, and you talk about medicine, there are some wonderful things we can do, some wonderful life-saving procedures, organ transplants, some of the stuff we do in the emergency department

to save people's lives, and a lot of this done by surgeons, good and evil, both sides, yin and yang. But that we're doing all of this harm, this unnecessary surgery. So that was a lot for me to swallow personally and took years for me to digest. And then I think as we saw this resurgence of the trans ideology that this became very mainstream. And I was first brought to that by hearing that Amazon had banned a book,

Ryan Anderson's book, When Harry Became Sally. And I didn't know about him, didn't know about the book, but when I heard that Amazon had banned a book, I said, boy, I wanna read that book. And I think it was probably the best publicity he ever received. And from there, I went on to read Abigail Schreier's book, Irreversible Damage, about this rapid onset

gender dysphoria in girls. And I think a lot of your point with women, puberty is earlier, but puberty is a lot more visible, right? There's a lot more changes that take place in women, you know, breast development and body shape changes that, yes, men change in puberty as well. And then there's also this very real and unfortunate fact that women are victimized sexually, or whether it happens to the individual woman or whether it's a societal issue there's some fear of,

and there's nothing more powerful for a woman or a girl who may have a fear of, have fear of victimization or have suffered victimization, whether that be in a family situation or in some other situation growing up to say, I'm no longer a woman, I'm a man, and I'm going to take control of, of my body, of my interaction with society. And I think you're right that it's empowering and then the testosterone is even more empowering.

We know from inquiries, particularly in the UK, because the Europeans have started to smarten up on this front in recent years, We know that kids who have been sexually abused, kids who are autistic and so they don't fit in well, and maybe the female autistics do have a thought pattern that's somewhat more masculine because autistic kids tend to be more interested in things than people, and that's a more masculine pattern of cognition.

Kids who don't have anyone standing for them, kids who have a complex developmental history and who have a history of psychiatric disorder of various sorts, they're much more likely to be drawn into the maw of the gender transforming industry. Right, and so, you know, it's the kids that are lost and who have no one to stand up for them that are most likely to be targeted, although those aren't the only kids that are lost and who have no one to stand up for them that are most likely

to be targeted, although those aren't the only kids that are targeted as well. I mean, so yeah, so it's a multi-headed hydra, isn't it? The universities are complicit, the medical schools, the faculties of education, the training grounds for psychologists, the K through 12 education systems, the hospitals, the physicians. It's no bloody wonder that people can't swallow this, right? Because the evidence of the rot is so pervasive that if you start noticing that these things are happening,

well, where do you stop questioning, right? Because it's also the laws, it's the lawmakers, it's the progressives themselves who are pushing this. It's like, it's not down a rabbit hole, it's down a lot of rabbit holes. And to a very ugly place indeed. Now one of the things I wanted to do before we conclude, first of all, I want to find out what else we should talk about, but you have a fun list here, which is the dirty dozen.

Yes. Defined as the children's hospitals, children's hospitals that are the worst offenders for promoting sex change treatments for minors. Number one, children's Hospital of Philadelphia. Right, so I read that when you first released this report. And then I also noticed that the acronym, this is like the evil clown parody of reality.

That's for sure. The acronym for the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia is CHOP. Right, so that's fun. Connecticut Children's Medical Center, Children's Minnesota, Seattle Children's, Children's Hospital, Los Angeles, Boston Children's Hospital, major institutions, eh? Major. Major institutions. Rady, Rady, Raddy, Rady? I believe it's Rady. Rady Children's Hospital. California, Children's National Medical Center, DC. UCSF, Benioff's Children's Hospital, California.

Children's Hospital Colorado, UPMC, Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh, and the Cincinnati Children's Hospital of Colorado, UPMC, Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh, and the Cincinnati Children's Hospital Medical Center, Ohio. So just to reiterate, let's repeat the top three. CHOP, Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, Connecticut Children's Medical Center, and Children's Minnesota. Now have these reprehensible organizations,

how have they responded? How have they responded to the revelation of their, let's call it impropriety? Yes, it's been less than a week since the database was released to the public. And we have heard from some organizations and there has been some pushback so far, but we haven't had a firestorm yet.

I think they're still calculating their response. And I think that's still forthcoming. What do you expect is gonna happen? And what's the plan? I think a lot of it's gonna be denial. and I think we're going to see more and more of this move underground. You think the strategy will be denial that although I can't see how that's going to work unless there's weaknesses in your database and so what do you think of the data you've

put forward so far? Yeah, it's a 50 billion claims with a B to start with, that we've then narrowed down, our methodology is all spelled out in our white paper. And again, very, first of all, our data set doesn't include, it is missing pieces. And then we were very, very conservative with evaluating our data to make sure that we're really truly only including these gender confused children who are being mutilated. Right, and this says nothing. The other thing we should point out here is that this says nothing about how many surgeries

have been performed on, say, people between 18 and 25. Like, I think that the right to do gender transformation surgeries, period, should be stripped from the medical profession. I think the medical profession and the counseling community as well has proved themselves unable of regulating themselves in this regard and that the whole enterprise should be made illegal. Like enough is enough. No, we started experimenting with it in the early 1960s. And for the longest period of time, it was something that was only happening to a tiny, tiny, negligible proportion of people.

And all of a sudden- And adults as well. And adults, right. And now- And adults, 40s, 50s, mids. Yeah, yeah, right. And now all of a sudden it's a serious epidemic and the medical profession is complicit up to its neck and no, you didn't police yourself properly.

So no, that's off the table because I don't think this is going to stop without something more dramatic like that. I don't think so. Our data also only goes up to 17 and a half years old. Again, we are just being as conservative as we can here. We are really just at the tip of the iceberg with this data. And we've already seen, even before this was released, going back a couple of years, that there were intentional efforts to bring this underground, to pull it out of the children's hospitals and into the surgery centers,

into the community medicine clinics, that there are intentional attempts to miscode procedures. Right, right. And to be intentionally vague. And we've seen leaked Zoom videos from WPATH telling physicians and billers and coders and mental health professionals how to hide this. Yes.

Yeah, right. And again, this doesn't cover, and you from the mental health side, you know how much of that world is cash pay. So we don't have any insight into the cash pay world. We know that there's doctors out there that are offering to chop girls breasts off for free if they're impoverished And so we don't get to see that. How wonderful of them. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes. There we go toxic compassion. All right So I think what we're gonna do is we're gonna I want to review the data that you put forward just to bring it to everyone's

attention once again, and then we'll turn to the daily wire side and continue our investigation. And so what will we talk about there? I want to know more about your personal story. I want to know more about your organization's plans and what your strategy is and what people can do to help. And so, well, let's, okay, so I'm going to review the data and then I'm going to ask you what people can do to help. And then we'll go to the daily wire side and talk about strategy. So let's review the data.

14,000 minors underwent sex change treatments across nearly 2,000 hospitals. So many, many minors, many, many, a small city's worth. In a four yearyear period, right? Five-year. Oh yes, five-year period, 2019 through 2023. 2,000 hospitals involved. So this is by no means not happening

and it's by no means rare. 6,000 received sex change surgery, minors. 62,000 cross-sex hormones and puberty blocker prescriptions written for 9,000 cross-sex hormones and puberty blocker prescriptions written for 9,000 minors, $120 million submitted to insurance claims. Right, okay, so that's pretty awful.

And then just for the sake of doing so, we'll read off the top five offenders one more time. Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, CHOP. Connecticut Children's Medical Center, Children's Minnesota, Seattle Children's, Children's Hospital Los Angeles. Right. Okay, so now I think we'll, what can people do? What can people do to get involved? What can they do to help? What should they know? And then we'll talk strategy on the daily wire side. I encourage them to visit our website.

That's do no harm medicine.org. We have a link to the database right at the top of our website. We encourage people to join us as a member and to get involved, get connected with our communications and we can then help people reach out to local policymakers, reach out to these hospitals and medical providers and start putting some pressure to stop this harm.

Like Robbie Starbuck has done to the DEI obsessed corporations. Right, right, right. To bring it to light and to start producing economic pain. Right, not all economic and reputational pain. Yeah, okay, okay. Okay, and the website again? DoNoHarmMedicine.org.

Right, and there was another website that you referred to earlier. Our database is StopTheHarmarmdatabase.org. Right, right. And we'll put these in the video description. All right, sir. Well, thank you for flying in today to do this interview. Much appreciated.

And Goldfarb, think he'd do a podcast? Absolutely. Well, suggest to him. And let's see what we can make of that since I'm interested in talking to physicians and psychologists who've been, well, rather unsuccessfully canceled, let's put it that way. So yeah, thank you very much for this. Pleasure.

For everybody watching and listening, we're going to continue on the daily wire side. I'm going to talk more, we're going to talk more about strategy, right, about how these, what the most intelligent way forward is with regard to publicizing this and also seriously bringing it to a halt. Like enough. This is, this is appalling. It's brutal. It's barbaric.

It's criminal. It's sadistic. There's no excuse for it whatsoever. There's no excuse for it whatsoever. There's no excuse for it whatsoever. It's It's the worst sign of moral collapse that I've ever seen in my life I would say and I've studied the atrocious actions of many people for a very long time. Thanks again, sir