The Little Dum Dum Club with Tommy & Karl - Episode 30 - John Safran

Episode Date: May 11, 2011

Positions of Power, Adult Songwriting Courses and Nerd Entourages. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hey mates, welcome to another episode of the Little Dum Dum Club. It is freezing outside so we're huddled up here in our little clubhouse. We're wrapped in blankets. We've started a fire in here, which given that as we've established we are actually recording this in a treehouse is probably going to end badly. My name is Tommy Dasolo. I'm the co-president of the club and minister for tweets about the weather. Sitting opposite me is the other co-president of the club and minister for riddles, Carl

Chandler. G'day, dickhead. Yes, I got you. I'm the good tweeter. You're the good tweeter, yeah. I still get complaints about your tweets. You get complaints about my tweets. How does that work?

Because people say they're not comfortable coming up and saying to you, hey, your tweet's a shithouse. I thought that was the whole nature of it, though. No, they don't. They come up to me and say, how's your mate going on Twitter? Like who? People I know? Yeah. Really? I can't name names. No, name names. No, no, no, no. That's not like you at all. No, well, no. It's not my parents, is it? No. They're not even on there. No. That'd be crushing. No, there's plenty. There's plenty out there. There's plenty. There's plenty. How many in the last week?

One. Plenty. But that's, I think there'd be four or less. I think that's a lot of people to complain about your work on Twitter. Oh, yeah. Don't you think? Yeah, I don't know. Like, what's their problem?

What's their main problem? It's boring. You're just boring on Twitter. I've gotten better. You have gotten better. I've gotten better. Yeah, yeah, you have gotten better. I feel like they're complaining about the Dass've gotten better. Yeah, yeah. You have gotten better. I feel like they're complaining about the

Dassault of old. Yeah, yeah. BC. Dassault BC. Before he clued up. Before you had the intervention with me on this show about how bad my tweets were. Well, if we're going to do that, mailbag. Dumb dumb mailbag. I've got a bit of correspondence from someone to read out.

A message from a guy called Rowan Harris. Direct message to me on Facebook. Love the show, and I look forward every week to hearing about what you guys have just eaten. And I'm not making this up. He continues, I'm much more inclined to have a Team Dassolo banner than a Team Chandler one. Boring. Yeah. How does that work?

All right, so work on my tweets. Yep. You've got to tell me who it is. Is it a friend of the show? I can't even remember. They all blend into one. There's so many of them. So anyway, I'll tell you this. This morning, my mum and dad came to my house unexpectedly because they're from Meribah. They come all the way up to Melbourne. And they knocked on the door at

9.30 and I was like, what are these? I mean, I wasn't even out of bed. Anyway, they came in and they, you know, they're supportive of what I do, even though I don't have like a proper nine to five job anymore. They'd never bag out your Twitter. No, exactly. No. Well, why would you? There'd be no reason. So they sort of ask about what I do, but they're not really that interested in the whole show

biz side of things. They don't really understand. So they're not really, if I say, oh, look, I'm going to do this thing this week and work on this TV show, whatever, they're like, okay, how have you been eating? You know, that's probably atypical mum and dads like that. Which is what they don't realise is that your showbiz stuff and what you're eating on this show tie in together. Yeah, well, they don't understand.

That's the thing about the podcast. Like if it ever comes up, this show, if I talk to them about this, they don't really understand. Their eyes glaze over. I say, it's kind of like a radio show on the internet. And they're like, right. They still don't get it. So anyway, I say, you know, I do it with Tommy Dassler.

You know him. You've seen him before. And this morning, mum goes, oh, Tommy, yeah, yeah, yeah. We saw him on the TV the other night. And I go, what? Oh, no. What? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We saw him on the TV the other night. And I go, what? Oh, no. What? Yeah, yeah, yeah, we saw him on the TV the other night with his grandma.

I hate where this is going. I was like, what? Tommy with his grandma on TV? When was he on TV with his grandma? You know, on that show that Sean McAuliffe hosts. That's Josh Thomas. That's funny. That's not Tommy Dasolone.

I've actually had, you know when Josh Josh did Stand Up On Rove the first time I actually had at least It was like about five friends Text me and say Hey I saw you in an ad about Rove Or like I quickly clicked over And saw you doing Stand Up On Rove Well done that's going to be really good things for you

And really bigging it up And I was like it's not me It's also a guy that looks nothing like me, I would say. Well, there's quite a few people that have made the connection, so they've spoken. That's weird. It's not up to you anymore. I feel like I'm the Philip Seymour Hoffman to his Jack Black.

All right, let's get into it. Our guest today is an award-winning documentary filmmaker. You may know him from the shows Music Jamboree vs. God and Race Relations. You may also have heard him Sunday nights on Triple J with Father Bob. It's John Safran. How are you? Good, good. Thanks for coming in, man. No, no, no.

I had a tweet ethical problem. Not ethical. You know when you go to King Solomon. This is basically my problem, right? Obviously, if someone does your at thing, I've got a right to respond to it, right? Yep. But sometimes people just go, like, I type in the search John Safran to see if anyone's talking about me.

Hasn't added you in. Yeah, yeah. And so what do I do if someone, like, disses me there? Like, am I allowed to? I've never done it, by the way. Yeah. Because that shows that you've been looking up your own name. Yeah, yeah.

But should I do it or not? Because I can't tell you how zen I am that I've never done it. Yeah. And some people have really wound me up. Like, there was one that said, good. I went to see this. It was some, like, film preview that I was there because I was interviewing the director the next day.

Yeah. And he's like some schmo on the internet who's got like a, like a film page. And he's like, you know, people on the internet get deluded. Like there's this weird, it's like that, hang on, Paris Hilton, what actually do you do? You know what I mean? But it's, it's become like ridiculous where people think because I've got like a webpage, they're like someone. Entitled to hang shit or whatever.

No, no, no. But he was like, so he's like, God, God, I had to sit in the cinema with John Safran. And I'm like, I was only in there first of all. I like how you've taken the tone John Safran out of just straight text. And then he said something like, and then I turned on the 7pm project and he was there. And I was on the 7pm project before like some charity thing. Right.

Then I was like dragged in. I wasn't like, like, so basically the two things he hassled me for was a charity thing. Yeah. And me turning up because I was invited by the publicist because I was interviewing the director. Whilst he's like just got in on some, like, freebie, like where he probably, you know. Yeah. Like, it's probably pretty fortunate he even got the freebie.

Yeah, yeah. Basically, like, Paramount publicity department can do without giving him a freebie. Yeah. I like that he's angry about just having to sit in the same room as you watching a film. He doesn't have to hear you say anything. He doesn't have to watch any of your shows.

Just knowing that you're... So I kept on trying to think, what can I say in 140... It's like the princess and the pea. He's sitting there with 300 other people, but he can just feel you in there. So I didn't know what to say. I was there going, oh, should I write... Well, I was there interviewing the director the next day. And why exactly were you there?

But I never did. So that's how, but see how I can still remember it? Okay, so today I was on. What was the film preview? Was it Big Mama House 3? No, no, it was Splice, I think it was called. That one with. Based on the popular ice cream.

No, based on, it's the guy with the big nose who was in the piano. Bubba Lo Bill, the movie. Who was in the piano. Bubba Loebill the movie. Who was in the piano, that guy. Oh, Adrian Brody? Yeah, yeah. It was like this sort of almost straight to video. Oh, okay. It didn't quite work.

Oh, so that's why I was angry because you were at his house watching it with him on the video. So today I was on ABC Local 774 and they had, there was that ethicist peter singer who always gets into trouble because he always talks about how oh maybe disabled kids if there's two disabled as when they're born you should be able to you know put them to death or whatever you know you know that guy yeah yeah you see him a lot on signposts people love putting posters up and it's kind of confusing because he also like loves animals a lot so lefties kind of love him posters up of him. And it's kind of confusing because he also, like, loves animals a lot. So lefties kind of love him and sort of, and he's anti-war and anti-George Bush. So they kind of love him and kind of cut him just, just pretend he doesn't say all that

stuff about, you know, killing people in wheelchairs. So I tried to ask him some questions. Like, I was dragged into this thing and I tried to ask him some questions. And then when I went on Twitter, someone had written John Safran's asking retarded questions of Peter Singer. Actually, they might just be borderline retarded. But I think

maybe he should abort the questions. So then I was furious, right? And I saw who the guy was and then I went to his YouTube page and he's like a comedian. Oh. His name's, I forget what his name is. Oh, please don't forget that.

Oh, yes. It'll be on, or whatever. And anyway, his shtick, which I kind of, I actually thought, like, like it is quite funny what he did. Like he didn't just do this. He was like, you know, there was a concept. He'd done his own work. Retarded.

Yeah. Half retarded. Abortion. I actually didn't mind it. You admire his work. Yes. But then, and also I guess it was a bit ambiguous seeing it was sort of funny, what he wrote, and thinking that maybe he was just trying to be funny

and he doesn't really hate me. This is going to be amazing because we're going to know who this person is. We're going to have to comment on it. Yes, this will be good. Just a sec. Hang on. We can call and get him in here. But then I went to his YouTube page because I was going,

oh, who's this clown? He's a stick and clown. You know that they're already taking that quote for their poster next year. Sean Bedlam. Do you know him? No, I don't know who that guy is. Sean Bedlam. John Safran is asking Peter Singer's questions.

Retarded questions. Okay, borderline retarded. But maybe the question should be aborted. Anyway, so I went to Steve Bedlam's YouTube page And he's doing like stand-up comedy, right? And I don't know if he's just starting out or whatever like that But seriously, I'm not trying to pick on him And I wasn't, I don't even watch enough

You just called him Steve Bedlam So you've already sort of done the job on him So I'm not having a go at him Where is he? Is he from Melbourne? Could you tell? Yeah, I've met him Oh, have you really? I think I've done the job on him. So I'm going to have a go at him. Where is he? Is he from Melbourne? Could you tell? Yeah, I've met him. Oh, have you really?

I've met him. But then when I watch his stuff, he clearly is going through a phase where he's like, just watched too much Zach Garaffa. What's his name? Galifianakis. Like, it's just under, like, he's just doing that kind of weird, not quite any jokes, but sort of like relying on some weird crazyness, like sticking out his belly.

And he's got the beard and he's just doing all this Zach Garagarab stuff. Hang on, you've messed up his real name. Now you've messed up his fake name. That's disrespectful. So his stand-up comedy, it's just absolutely the first thing. For example, like, obviously when people meet you, it's like, oh, that's Josh Thomas. Yeah.

So in the same way. Yeah. This was just like the absolute first. And then, then he's even done these sort of like little, like, not, not comedy bits, but they're out on the street and he's just sort of like being a bit surreal in exactly the Zach Garaffai with the beard. So I was like going to write back, oh, well, I guess it's lucky they're not aborting Zach. Galifianakis.

Knock off. Hey. Tweet. Is that the only reason you didn't do it is because you couldn't remember his last name? Yeah, yeah. Because you couldn't fit Galifianakis in the word count. I thought I could get out of control. Yeah, yeah.

Because you couldn't fit Galifianakis in the workout. I thought I could get out of control. And also, you can lose the plot of like, because people are really literal, at least in Australia, where there's just like, they make power dynamics and then you can't win if people perceive you as being in a position of power. So just say I meet this like starving Ethiopian and he's a total jerk. Which a lot of them are. Yeah. He's just like not a pleasant person. Like it's just Ethiopians who wouldn't be pleasant. Why wouldn't it? There's people in Melbourne, right? But there's no way I

can have a, you know, get in a fight with him without people going, no, no, you're, you're in the position of more privilege and therefore like I just can't win. And so I could, an Ethiopian could basically cheat on my partner, you know what I mean? Eat your dinner. Yeah. And could, like, do whatever they want and there's no way I can win it. An Ethiopian could cut your lunch.

So I just thought that, like, maybe even though sort of, like, obviously compared to Rove McManus and Josh, I'm small, I thought maybe if I get in a fight with this schmo that like the perception would be, oh, why are you with the position of power that you can get? You and your mansion. Comedy series greenlit, why are you picking on the little guy? You're like, is that really what you've become? You've become Ray Martin.

Going through Bedlam's business. Steve Bedlam. But it's also like it is that thing where I think any time that you respond to someone on Twitter where they haven't added you, where you've gone looking for it, any time someone sees that response, no matter how good your comeback is, you've automatically lost. I've responded to nice things people say, though,

if they just type in that. Okay, right. Yeah. Well, that's okay. Yeah. This is what happened last week on the topic of that. It's something exactly like that happened. Because you tend, I guess, on Twitter, on the internet,

you tend to forget that people are real people, especially celebrities or whatever. You've just sort of got carte blanche to sort of say whatever you want on the internet and it doesn't matter. On the day that Osama bin Ladenen died i put a tweet that was wait how do we know osama's really dead maybe he's just trying to get out of a relationship with olivia newton john oh yeah and i was thought that's funny you know and a lot of people sort of replied and said that was funny and whatever anyway about six hours later i got a tweet back

from someone who appears to actually be Olivia Newton-John saying, thanks. I got one from, I made a little joke about, who's that former, the hot politician from New South Wales, Keneally? Yeah, I don't know her first name. I don't know her last name. Yeah, the KK woman. Yeah. And I made a little comment about her, like where, and it was all about how she'd gone to China or somewhere to open up a Gloria Jean coffee or something. Yeah.

Or some foreign country. And there was like this, you know, rumor that like it's because she was getting, because they were connected to Hillsong Pentecostal Church. So it was this whole thing of, you know, the Hillsong Pentecostal Church helps So it was this whole thing of, you know, the Hillsong Pentecostal Church helps fund her campaigns, and this is a favour back. So I thought, oh, classic saffron.

Hashtag classic saffron. Conspiracy, religion, Hillsong. So I just wrote about it. There wasn't even a joke. I just said, ooh, Keneally with Hillsong, blah, blah, blah. And she got back to me. Oh, really? And she did this thing where she goes, oh, so good to hear from you.

I'm very good friends with Father Bob. Right. I went to his church or something like that. And so I just, yeah, I totally caved in. So you're kind of like the bedlam to her saffron in a way. It's a role reversal. Yeah, that's good. You've got to be careful with who you hang shit on on Twitter.

You're right, you can forget. So we should say up the top that we don't really know you very well, John. We were acquainted downstairs. But I think Carl and I have both kind of met you before in kind of weird ways. I don't know if you remember this. Uh-oh. I met you. No, it's actually on Twitter.

On Twitter. I was hitting shit on you on Twitter. As soon as someone says my sister or anything like that, it's like it's always, yeah. But it's almost a live version of Twitter where I met you a few months ago out the front of a nightclub in Melbourne called Purple Sneakers. And they were having the after party for an award, the Australian Independent Music Awards or something. And me and my friend were waiting to get in and you were in line behind us

and we recognised you so we got chatting. And I was a bit drunk. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I said to you, are you working on anything at the moment? Which I meant in a way of like I was just wanting to get a bit of scuttlebutt about what your next project was or whatever. But because I was drunk, it perhaps came out the wrong way

and you sort of interpreted it like me having a crack at you saying like, do you have a job? Are you working at the moment? Yeah, yeah. And you got a little bit upset at me. It would have been probably joking upset. Yeah, but because I was drunk and then I went, oh, that came out the wrong way. But then that said, you did get us into the club because they weren't letting people in

and you said, these guys come with me. And we got in. It was very entourage. It was very good. You see, would Sean Bedlam be able to get you into? No, he would not. The only difference to the entourage was considering the dive that the place was. It wasn't really.

It was like me going, yeah, I can get you into like that soup kitchen in Calcutta. Don't worry. Any club X, any club X, just come on in, just come on in. Crazy horse. Yeah, I'm confused because I basically know you two as well as I know, like I've got like four friends or something, you know what I mean? It's four friends and everything else. I don't have like, yes, I'm already.

Hey, you've got six now, buddy. Yeah, I know. I already like I'm like, oh, you're my, you know, you're not there the fourth. We're in your top six. Yeah, yeah. Awesome. Yeah, that's pretty good.

That's pretty good. So I wanted to talk to you about some stuff. What have we got here? Just scrolling through my notes. I mentioned before that you've done a lot of TV stuff and the radio stuff, so you've been kind of a fixture in, I guess, the Australian comedy landscape for a little while now. I was trying to sort of dig a bit deeper and find out a bit more about you,

and I did some research, which, of course, in 2011 means I went to Wikipedia and IMDb. Sure. And I found some interesting tidbits on your IMDb page that I just want to – because, you know, you never know with this stuff if it's just someone's just absolutely made it up or how much validity there is to it. Is it anything about anyone's sister? No.

We'll get to that. So according to the trivia page on your IMDb, you lied about his age when he was 15 so he could attend a college of adult education songwriting workshop. Correct. You did? Yeah, yeah, that's correct. Right.

And was that around the time that you started your group Raspberry Cordial? Yes, that's how I met the other guy from Raspberry Cordial. Really? Oh, okay. Because the kind of context, I went to a real strict Orthodox Jewish school where, like, we got no arts after, like, year 10. And so all this stuff that, like, you just see, like, I used to see on TV, like, kids, you know, designing graphic art and, you know, doing heavy metal pictures in art.

We just didn't get to do that. Right. But I was, like, bubbling, as were other kids in my class, with this sort of, like, creative energy. So we'd always have to go, like like off-site to pursue these things. So I'd just be doing bizarre stuff like that, like turning up to a college of adult education. And lying about your age.

Yeah, and lying about my age. Like people wanting to be in the army to fight for their country. Because I would have written like Melbourne Tram, the rap song for Ozby Court. I would have gone, oh, these are the lyrics, right? Okay, cool. Now I need to like get backing music and stuff. And there wasn't like Pro Tools or the internet and stuff.

So I actually needed to find another musician. Yeah, right. I remember like turning up to like housing commission flats where they'd have like a special like DJ day where they teach you how to rap and stuff. And I just like turned up because I was like, that's how, because I was like, oh, I've got to find some musician and stuff like that. Yes, no, true, I lied. That's true. So why couldn't they let you in at 15 to an adult songwriter? What sort of songs were you writing in this class?

No, it was just like the CAE. Because it's like if you're an adult who goes to the College of Adult Education, you don't want to hang around with these little schmucks. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I did my version of the Barack fake Hawaiian birth certificate. Oh, right. You know, I've tried to, I haven't said this story before, so it's, I don't know whether

it's just meandering and got no point. But you know how like that Barack fake Hawaiian birth certificate? Yeah. And like, and I was deferred, I was like, oh, come on, a conspiracy theorist, blah, that's crap. I've got this chick following me on Twitter who's Hawaiian and because she's Hawaiian and we kind of sometimes talk, we start doing jokes about, oh, I bet you've got a fake birth certificate. You're really from Kenya.

And then like the joke got bigger and bigger and she actually scanned her birth certificate and like sent it to me as like this sort of joke and then she said, oh, my God, like she hadn't really looked at it closely before, but she was adopted. And no, she knew she was adopted, right? But for the first time, she noticed that her birth certificate had the name of the father who like not the biological father, but who adopted her when she was like five.

Right. So clearly, when she was age five, they'd gone back to the Hawaiian birth certificate shop and just were able to kind of go, oh, can you change this? Right. So she actually has a fake Hawaiian birth certificate. And clearly, the standards are pretty low there in Hawaii. Yeah, right. So we could presumably all just rock up there tomorrow

and get birth certificates saying that we were born in Hawaii? I could rock up there and go, my name's Magnum. Can you just crack one up for me? Oh, wow. That's good. That's good. Okay, on the Ras Recordial thing, which for people who don't know, your hip-hop posse that you started in

when you were in year 10? Yeah, it would have been around year 10. And I, yeah, first with Chris Lumsden, who I met at the College of Adult Education, and also my friend George Weinberg, who was like on drums, and we did like rehearsals. And it was just, I thought, like, why do you really need such a big drum kit?

And it's like a logistical nightmare. So we like kicked him out of the band after one rehearsal. That's an awesome reason to be kicked out of a band, like if you were Pete Best in The Beatles. Like we just don't have any room on the bike for your little snare. Well, okay, on the Raspy Cordia thing, you reformed for a gig recently at Friend of the Show, Tom Ballard's 21st birthday party that was a big triple J.

I can't figure out whether he likes me or not. Tom Ballard. No, I'll tell you why. He's a nice guy. He'd like you. No, no, no. I'll tell you why. Because I'm not, like, I can't tell whether he's, you know, like, I don't assume that if someone's, like, a bit, like bit glazed eye or not really focusing,

like that, oh, it's me. Because what do you know? They could have just had a tough day in general. There can be all sorts of interpretations. But I do notice he doesn't really kind of go out of his way to respond. He will say hello or whatever. I really am the one putting in all the effort to kind of like engage in some conversation.

You know? I would say that you would be a harder person to read than him. Yeah, maybe. But I get, I get, and I don't know whether it's because, and I get on really well with Josh. Yeah. I don't know whether that's got back to him. Oh, okay.

You think it's like a team, team Thomas, team Ballard kind of situation? Yeah, maybe. Okay. Maybe he's not happy. Well, Ballard listens to the show, so this will be the test. He says that he listens to the show, so this will be a test of two things, whether he's being honest about how much he listens and also – How much he hates you.

How much he hates you. Because the other guy, I think I could get the vibe he likes me. Like for that whole birthday on the Triple J breakfast show. Uh-huh. Oh, Alex. Alex, yeah, yeah. So I got the impression – Do you know anyone's names? I got the Triple J Breakfast Show. Uh-huh. Oh, Alex. Alex. Yeah, yeah. So I got the impression. Do you know anyone's names?

I got the impression. He's four mates. He knows everyone. I got the impression it was like Alex's idea to do this whole Razzle-B-Cordial thing and like he was the one, you know. That is pretty paranoid actually for you to go, he's having this big whiz-bang birthday party. He's invited you to reform your band from 20 years ago.

Are you still like, I wonder if he likes me? We'll make it do a fair effort. Who the hell knows? Maybe he hangs out with Sean Bedlam. Maybe they're in cahoots. Yeah, yeah. Well, what I was going to ask you, because I was there at that party and I saw the gig.

However, the other member, Chris Lumsden, nowhere to be seen. I know. What happened? He just couldn't get off work on that night. He works at this sort of like, he does this IT thing that I've never understood. Right. So it was more like a Smashing Pumpkins reformation. I know.

Yeah, it wasn't. I would have preferred him there. But actually, to be honest, I would have liked to, you know, because it would have been fun or whatever. But anything that was like lowering expectations, I was very happy with. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember there being a lot of sizzle during the week.

Sometimes, like, I agree to do something where, like, in my head, like, I'm like, oh, yeah, I'll do it because I just slip on in and then, you know, that's fine, you know what I mean? But then, like, you put your name to it and then suddenly they kind of take you to the next set and it gets inflated, inflated, inflated. And so they were running, like, all week on Triple J, like, In the left room. That's classic Triple J announcer voice.

And I was like, it was just a hiring, heightening expectations. Yeah. It's not, yeah. Like I'm doing this thing, like whenever I agree to do something small, they always like, oh God, now we've hooked him in that far. Now we'll kind of like put out a, like a full colour poster with his face on it. Probably not the ideal time to mention this, but we are building a banner for this episode of the show.

We've got a billboard. Do you want to just look out that window? We've got a billboard, corner of Flinders and Swanson. So not a big deal, just opposite Fed Square. It's hard to not, because the reason it's top of mind, I agreed to do this like talk and I was like sort of, like, I'm like, I can't do it. You know, like, because, you know, you try to be cooperative or whatever, and, like, why not?

Or whatever. So with some New South Wales art gallery, they kind of wanted me to talk. And so I agreed to it, but I was a bit like, are you sure I don't know anything about the arts and da-da-da, and then I just thought, oh, no, I'll just do it in the general. Like, why not? It could be fun.

You meet people and good karma and all that stuff. And then next thing I know, postcard. It's like there's 30,000 postcards, you know, in those little things around Sydney with my face on it. Oh, right. Have you done it yet? No, I haven't done it. Oh, right.

So expectations heightened. Yeah. So what are you meant to be doing? I don't know. Oh, that's right. I've got to do it. Oh, they made it real tenuous because I said to them, I said, oh, listen, I don't mind talking, but I don't know anything about, like, art.

Can I rap? Can I rap instead? And they said, they came back with this one about how, oh, you can just talk about how you paint a portrait of people with your television shows. And then I just thought, like, why not? Like, you get to go to Sydney and, like, why not? Like, you know, you've got to throw yourself out there.

It's not like I've got a family. Like, it's like either go to Sydney that night or just lie on the couch. Abuse people on Twitter. Yeah, look up your name on Twitter. Yeah, on the couch on Twitter. Does anyone actually use those postcards as postcards? Has anyone ever sent a message to their mum saying, hey, I'm just here at John Saffron talking about art?

I bet all the popular line. All the kiddies listening are probably too young, but I was there when they first came out, like the first time. It was like there weren't postcards. Then when they were suddenly posted, everyone just sort of was like the most amazing thing. And like if you took like five different ones, you'd look around like, oh, my God, I just shouldn't do this.

It was like something of value. This costs money normally. Yeah, yeah. It seemed like amazing. It was like, oh, my God, there's no way when they printed these up they thought I was going to take five. It was like, oh, my God, there's no way when they printed these up they thought I was going to take five. Yeah, what's the next sort of innocuous piece of memorabilia

that's suddenly going to become free advertising? There'll be little buckets with commemorative spoons with just people's ads on them. Spoons, that would be cool. Free spoons with ads on them. John Saffron in Sydney spoons. That's awesome. Yeah, that'd be great.

John, I wanted to ask you about this. You were talking about Tom Ballard before. You were tweeting the other day that you were at a jazz event in Melbourne and that friend of the show, Lawrence Lung, was snubbing you. I don't know. I think Lawrence Lung, it's a confusing relationship because clearly he's ripped off my shtick. But on the other hand, I did a joke and I didn't use

like a photo of his mother. But on the fake race relations webpage, we did this thing called Racebook, which, you know, obviously was a stand-up of Facebook, where it was like me, like I'm the one with the page, but all my friends are just like Asian women. And then we did this whole like fake wall where it's just like everyone. And because he was like at the ABC, so we just put this.

And so there was this woman who, it wasn't a photo of his mum, who we pretended was his mum sort of like saying something. That's even worse. But it was nothing offensive, but beyond, we kind of used the thing, and ever since that, I think he's been a bit like, you know, and I think he was just like pretty disgusted by the race relations show. So he kind of like. Well, he's actually quite close to Tom Ballard, so maybe that's it.

I love it. There's a whole sort of comedy sort of battlefield kind of playing out. Well, it's like you're down in the underground of comedy. All this stuff's happening down in the drains of comedy that we never even knew about before tonight. And I also, about two months, you know like sometimes you write to someone and it's just like if they're not writing back, something's going on? Yeah.

So I happen to be hanging out with this girl called Lali Katz, a playwright, a couple of months ago, who just came up in conversation that she lived in this unit that Lawrence Lung's father owned. Right. So I just thought, because I'm like, hang on, why is Lawrence Loong always snubbing me ever since I put his mother up on And then you found a picture of a random Asian person with the Lutty's dad. So I wrote a tweet to him straight away.

I said, ah, I'm here with Lali. She says, you know, she lives in the flat where you're blind, like some joke. It never got back to me. You sent that to Jackie Chan. But he did find, but you know, he's unbelievable. I'd gone to this Melbourne jazz event, as I described. I think it was more like blues or whatever. What if it was just called the Melbourne jazz event?

One per year. I just thought it sounded funny as saying jazz. Anyway, I went there. I went with a girl, nothing romantic, just a female friend, okay? Okay. I went there. So Lawrence Loong's snubbing me, right? But then he's sort of like, somehow he gets in a conversation with my female companion

and he doesn't know she's come with me. Right. And then he's all bright and excited. He's bringing out his A material now, his A Rubik's material. Want to see a picture of my real mum? Yeah. And then he doesn't know that I've come there with her. So he says to me, he goes, oh, hi, John. First time, like he noticed, oh, hi, John, first time. Like, he notices, oh, hi, John. And then he goes, you know, Mary Bubba, meet John.

This is John. And he introduces the girl I came with to me. So he's like, yeah, I don't know. I'm going to have to hang out with him one more time to find out, like, whether I'm paranoid or not. Or whether he just doesn't like me. Just skip the meeting. I think you are. I think that would be not even a blip on Lawrence's radar

at the time when he met a girl and met you at a jazz festival. Yeah. Yeah. And he ripped off, like, he just stole my director as well, by the way. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, okay, steal my shtick. That's why we get your own director.

But it's like, how can I, you know? And, like, so sometimes I want to go out and shoot a show and all these people have, like, ripped off my shtick. It's like Craig, my director, going, oh, listen can I, you know And like, so sometimes I want to go out and shoot a show And all these people have like ripped off my shtick It's like, it's like Craig, my director Oh, listen, I'm sorry I can't Because, you know, I'm shooting the Lawrence line It's like, what? Do you know Lawrence is, he hangs around

What's his friend's name? I like him, by the way Andy? Maybe Anyway, when Lawrence goes out It's a bit like, and I'm saying this in a warm and affectionate way. This will be good.

Yeah. No, I really am. I really am. I'm saying when Lawrence Long goes out, he doesn't just go out alone. He goes with, it's like nerd entourage. And it's like. This is certainly, he's not going to be added to the roster of friends after this. The six isn't going to be growing

So he kind of like walks in slow motion a bit He's like, who's the hot guy from Vincent Chase Is that the hot guy from Entourage Yeah, so he's like that one, right? And he's got all his hair on But they're all like, you know, into World of Warcraft and stuff like that

And he, I promise you this happened. I was listening in to a conversation at this Melbourne jazz event where it was his friend. Andy. Andy, I think Andy or whatever, talking to a girl. And I just got in on the conversation, hearing him, where he's trying to dig himself out of a hole by saying he doesn't really play World of Warcraft much anymore.

And I'm saying to him, because he's there going, and he's kind of going, yeah, yeah, no, I don't. And I'm thinking, what chain of events led to him to fall into this conversation? And then I said to him, I said, listen, why are you talking about World of Warcraft? And he's like, oh, she brought it up. She brought it up. This was after she'd left or whatever. And I was sort of like, and he's going, she brought it up.

And I'm going, listen, I've had so many conversations. I've never like accidentally kind of, you know, fallen into this conversation where a girl brings up all of Warcraft. And then you're lying about playing it. Yeah. I do like the disclaimer, much anymore. Oh, that is, wow. Okay.

So. Well, I'm looking forward to Lawrence Loong bringing the Paxsons up to Naomi Robson's house. Yeah, that'll be, that's two people we've got to respond now from this show, Lawrence Loong and Tom Ballard. They'll join forces. Is there, who else on Triple J? Yeah, well, actually, because I was in sort of preparing for this,

I went back and I was watching Race Relations with the commentaries on. Uh-oh. And I enjoyed it a lot. But actually, the interesting story of how, because for those that haven't seen the show, there are flashbacks to your younger years in the show and in those dramatisations. You're played by a friend of the show, the bedroomopher, a.k.a. Justin Hazelwood.

And I just thought that would have been like an agent had gotten him the gig or an open casting call. But the story that you told in the commentary was kind of way more interesting. So that was about how someone had heard him taking the piss out of me behind my back. Yeah, yeah. Because you were trying to cast someone for me and things just weren't like gelling. Like people were good actors and all that stuff, but there was just something about

it where things just weren't gelling who were everywhere we auditioned. So then, yeah, someone came up with the idea because someone had heard that he. You said in the commentaries, you said it was the doctor from Triple J. Oh, yeah. That apparently did an impression of you behind your back. Oh, yeah. He started off. Yeah, yeah.

He's the one who started off. The doctor. Yeah, because, yeah, he started off. Yeah, yeah, he's the one who started off, the doctor. Yeah, because, yeah, he used to go, So you've heard that he hangs shit on you behind your back and then you've gotten him in to audition to play you on the show. I've heard bad things about you. Do you want to come in and audition? I actually liked the doctor.

Yeah. But other people were like, oh, you know, he won't bring enough empathy because he's like, all he does is make fun of your lisp. So, but I liked him. But then, but then because we got that idea that, oh, hang on, the doctor from Triple J makes fun of me behind my back and let's, let's audition people who make fun of me behind my back. And someone said that, uh, the, uh. Justin.

Yeah. Someone said that Justin had an on-air show. Lawrence's friend's friend. Yeah, at his comedy show that he did like a brief bit where he took the mickey out of me. So we thought, oh, yeah, we'll get that. So, yeah, we just basically got people who like hang shit on me behind my back. It's kind of a great counter-bullying technique of like,

you think you do a good me, do you? We'll see about that. So Ballard and Lung are in your next show, obviously. Playing you at various stages of your life. The other thing I found interesting in the commentaries, which I sort of never thought of before, is that you were saying that your show kind of, it's sort of race relations, that is,

kind of premiered at kind of a bit of a weird time in that it came on not long after the Chaser Make-A-Wish Foundation thing. It was saying there was a lot of articles kind of saying that people are just over that kind of... Because it's weird in the commentaries because you're recording them before the show has aired. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you sort of like don't know if people like it or how it's going to be received yet. But yeah, that thing about, yeah. Oh, yeah, it was definitely, because the kind of show where you get to go overseas and get yourself crucified is the kind of environment where like there's total freedom, right?

So that was all cool and it was great or whatever. But then we got back and we're editing the show. And whilst we're editing it, it's like the chase and make a wish thing goes down. And then suddenly everyone's freaking out and suddenly we have to send in the scripts. Like, you know, like there's like, oh, everyone wants to look over everything. So, yeah, it got pretty kind of confusing. And also confusing because sometimes when people in authority are criticizing or want to make a comment or take something, maybe they're right, like on a creative level. Like maybe it's like doesn't work or whatever, but you kind of get confused because you kind of, it's like, okay, if this person's telling me to change something, is that in a good way?

Because they're just coming at it as a person and they think they know, you know, or is it a bad way because they're just kind of chickening out or whatever and because the chaser's got into trouble. So it got really confusing about feedback because I'm quite happy. I, in fact, like getting flagellated. Yeah. So, yeah. Well, don't we all? Yeah. So, yeah, it was confusing.

It was very confusing. And then when, like, the press came out, it was all, like, making out my show had no context or meaning. You know, it was like, oh, he, oh, he whacks off in a Palestinian sperm bank or he gets crucified. And it's like, yeah, I don't mind if you don't like it or if it's shocking. That's true. But I kind of didn't quite understand how anyone could watch all eight

episodes of my show and not think there's subtext to it. Yeah. Like it just seems, I don't know, disingenuous. Am I remembering this incorrectly or did the, because there's an episode where you get made up as a black man and you go to the States and you hang out in different areas. Am I remembering this incorrectly or did the hey, hey, blackface thing happen? Oh yeah, that happened like the week before. Like the week

before that episode aired or something? Yeah. It sort of didn't. Yeah, I don't. Yeah, yeah, it did. It did. It was hard. Yeah, yeah.

It was. Yeah, everything was bad. I mean, were you freaked out upon seeing that and the reaction to that? Did you then, was there any, you know, debate about, you know, what do we do with this episode? Were people freaking out or? No, I really didn't mind it except on, like, I kind of don't do my stuff. Like, I love it when people kind of engage with what I'm talking about.

And so, but what happened was just because the shock value took over everything, it was just being talked about as in shock value. Yeah. So no one was like saying, oh, well, some people were, but, you know, but a lot of the articles, because it came out as Make-A-Wish, which was kind of nihilism, and then this blackface thing on Hey Hey, which is sort of, you know, what kind of meaning does it have? I was kind of thrown in with that.

But, you know, whatever. I deserve it, you know. I really like getting bad feedback because it kind of just keeps you on your toes. And sometimes it's right. You know what I mean? It's not like, you know, it's not just keeps you on your toes. And sometimes it's right. You know what I mean? It's not like, you know, it's not like you always get everything right. Yeah, yeah.

So it's kind of good to get bad feedback, I think. Yeah, it is. I mean, once you take your ego out of it a little bit, like that's it. Like, you know, some of those jokes on Twitter and whatever you put out and you go, oh, and then everyone goes, ah, that's funny. And then you get one that goes, you're a dickhead. And you go, oh, you can't. Actually, you probably can say that.

Yeah. Like, that's not too far off the mark. Sometimes when people criticize you, they kind of, or even if they're thinking something's wrong with your show, they mightn't be expressing it right, but they're kind of onto something. Yeah. They're not making it up. Yeah. Sometimes, like, my bosses at the ABC, who kind of, they'll say, oh, they'll talk about something like it goes for too long or too short. And I'm like, oh, that's clearly not really the problem.

But the fact that they're kind of picking up something that's not right there, I better think about it hard. But, yeah, I've definitely learned stuff from race relations because I feel like I have a suite, you know, I have a few different options for how I kind of put things together. And so I reckon with race relations, I kind of, there were too many layers of just like alienating people. Like, you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I've kind of noticed with your shows because, you know, I've been a fan of your work and following your stuff for a long time, is that you've sort of, you know, from, you've kind of, your shows have kind of gradually gotten, I guess, for want of a better word, like darker as you've kind of gone along. Like, is that a conscious thing or do you think that's just part of? Yeah, well, it was, but I think it got kind of, your shows have kind of gradually gotten, I guess, for want of a better word, like darker as you've kind of gone along. Like, is that, is that a conscious thing or do you think that's just part of. Yeah, well it was, but I think it got kind of too dark.

And I think the problem with race relations, which I do differently, is people got so distracted by the process of how we film things. Yeah. So for example, there's usually just slightly more going on than we kind of like, there's usually a bit of slight of hand or whatever, but like people just got obsessed with like, how could you steal those women's underwear? Like, and they didn't know about it. And it's something that I can't think about anything else. It's like, because it's like just that act or whatever.

And like in a few of the episodes, because we kind of edited things in a way to make me look like the biggest jerk on earth, because creatively I thought that was dark and funny. That was just because Lawrence Loong was the actor. Yeah, yeah. But then in retrospect, it kind of like I really didn't do myself any, you know what I mean? Right, right. To make it work, to make it funny, it's funny to have the main guy,

you know, fall over. Yeah. But then for people to keep remembering after the show, that's that evil guy that fell over on the kids. Yeah, yeah. And I guess it's harder because you're, I mean, you're doing a version of yourself, but it is you. So it's like there's not that.

But usually we exaggerate. Like, you know, like on Today Tonight, they'll do awful stuff and then make themselves look better, like by editing out the thing. We kind of did a flip of that where if there was any mitigating thing which would have made the audience understand that maybe it wasn't as bad as we've made it, cut that out. The big bug there of mine is that, you know, like I love watching,

you know, anything like you probably would have seen, you know, those Trent from Punchy videos on YouTube or you haven't? Okay, so, okay, I'm sorry, you know, like the Rebecca Black thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anything like that where it's dumb and it's stupid and then there's always those people who go, oh, that's not real. Is that real?

Did that really happen? I'm kind of the person who I don't care. I just like to detach and buy into something. And for people who haven't seen it, in the last episode of Race Relations, you have a bit where you fake a wedding for your family and your friends and they all gather there and they all buy into it and then you tell them.

I was watching that with a friend and they were going, did he do that? Did he really do that? First of all, like I somehow have the answers, like I somehow know anything about it. And also I just go, just shut up and buy into it. You're watching a thing on the TV. Just let it wash over you. Does it matter? Like with that, that was true.

I pranked my entire family and friends. Well, because here was the question that kept coming up when I was watching it with this friend. Did your family not question that you, and I know I'm kind of now by asking this contradicting what I just said about how I buy into things, but did your family not question why they'd never met your bride before? Well, I don't know, because I tell you what the trick was that mate convinced them. They were like, John would do the type of thing where he would get married and then film it. Right, okay.

So, yeah, so they were processing in their heads that. Right. Yeah. They were thinking it was a stunt, but they were on the wrong part of it, on the wrong track. Yeah, yeah. So not really a stunt, but they thought it's like, yeah, typical of John. He's probably known this girl for blah, and he'd do this type of thing.

So he's sort of that. But, like, for example, that's a good example where in it, like you're watching it and it's car crashy and, like, my best friend George Weinberg, like, just says, fuck you or whatever. Yeah. He picks up his microphone and throws it down right. So we cut out the bit afterwards where like five minutes later where I'm just chatting to him and you know what I mean?

Because he's like angry for a minute because I've like pranked him. Oh, so he's not in on it either. No, no, no. There's no one. No one was in on it except for my friend who was reading out the Bible prayer. Yeah. Yeah. So he was in on it.

Yeah. And you're like, that's showbiz, baby. That's what you've got to do. Because I have a theory, because that's the thing that keeps coming up about you, is because you do, you know, you sort of, not heaps, but you do kind of use your friends and your family as kind of fodder for what you do. And the thing that keeps coming up is like how do his, you know, why do they keep taking it and, you know,

does he keep coming back to them? I have a theory that before you got into doing this stuff, you were just like the ultimate great bloke. You would always like take people out for dinner. You'd always buy people a beer because you were working on a grand plan of like one day I'm going to fuck these people over for the purposes of television. I better build up that karma now.

And that's why people keep letting you back into their lives. They go, oh, remember that time he helped me move house? What a good guy. Well, I'm definitely, I'm not doing, I'm so not doing pranks anymore. Right. Yeah. A bit like, you know, when Jay-Z said, this is my last album. I'm still doing docos.

Wasn't he like, didn't he then keep doing albums after that? No, no, no, no. I'm still going to do like funny docos. You know, but you know, like on. But you are going to marry Beyonce. Versus God or how they they're like I go to like a Buddhist temple and it's kind of funny, but I'm not pranking them. It's just like odd. So I'm going to do stuff like that. Yeah, okay.

I'm over pranking, so don't worry anyone listening. Is this a prank? No. Well, guys, that actually brings us to the end of the program for another week. Thanks so much, John, for joining us. No, no, no. People can hear you on Triple J Sunday evenings with Father Bob. Yes, from 9 to 11.

And can you give us a bit of a scoop? What else is coming down the pipe? At the end of July, because the Australian census is going to be early August, so at the end of July on ABC1, I've got a half-hour documentary about the what is your religion question. That comes up at the census because, you know, everyone gets a little emotional. Yeah. And then writes down Jedi. Jedi.

Stuff like that. So I've got a doco about that where I go to America and I find these people who sincerely and unsarcastically kind of do these things that Australians write down sarcastically and taking the piss. Great. You know, like a matrixist who believes he's neo-awesome, the one. Great. That is awesome.

Yeah. So that's July? Yeah, July, I don't know, 19th, whatever. It's on a Tuesday night. Oh, it's a lot. ABC? Yeah, ABC. Cool, ABC. Look out for that. It should be on the night. Oh, it's a lot. ABC? Yeah, ABC. Cool, ABC.

Look out for that. You can also see... It should be on the census now, so people have got an excuse to actually stay home. So you can see that. You can also see John presumably popping up in the Twitter feeds of Tom Ballard and Lawrence Leung after this episode goes out.

Thanks so much for coming in. That was a lot of fun. No, thank you. Send him a message, everyone. Don't even add him in. Just put his name in there. He'll know. He'll find you. He'll find you. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoyed it, and we'll see you next time. See message, everyone. Don't even add him in. Just put his name in there. He'll know. He'll find you.

He'll find you. Thanks for listening. We hope you enjoyed it, and we'll see you next time. See you, mate. See you, mate. Bye. What can I say? Ain't no more rainy days.