The Louis Theroux Podcast - S1 EP3: Amelia Dimoldenberg on viral fame, Jiggle Jiggle and dealing with anxiety

Episode Date: June 19, 2023

Louis is in the studio with the comedian and Chicken Shop Date host, Amelia Dimoldenberg. The pair discuss the Jiggle Jiggle TikTok phenomenon, struggles with anxiety and the possibility of dating the President of the United States. Warnings: Some strong language and discussions of sensitive themes Links: Louis on Amelia’s Chicken Shop Dates https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gnwr8x-W_fY&t=168s Aitch on Chicken Shop Dates https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnZc88p2xKI Digga D on Chicken Shop Dates https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxlfiwVYJv0 Amelia interviews Andrew Garfield at the Golden Globes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6O0wq6GNn8 The ‘Jiggle Jiggle’ Music video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8dR8HNPn6s Credits: Producer: Paul Kobrak Assistant Producer: Maan Al-Yasiri Production Manager: Francesca Bassett Music: Miguel D’Oliveira Show notes compiled by Shaloma Ellis Executive Producer: Arron Fellows A Mindhouse Production exclusively for Spotify www.mindhouse.co.uk Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

One day I'll get good at this. Hi, I'm Louis Theroux. How are you doing? Nice to be here. Welcome to the Louis Theroux podcast. Today my guest is the social media sensation and chicken shop date interviewer. Does that sound weird? Amelia de Moldenberg. Many of you, most of you, I think will have seen Amelia's chicken shop date show on YouTube in which she interviews very often rap stars, sports people, and also on one occasion, a rather aged TV documentary maker, that being me. And she's someone I was excited to speak to because she sort of represents the new culture, the new media landscape of someone who's created

their own brand, their own body of work from the ground up just by week in week out for actually 10 years, putting out these amazing episodes. They're light and puckish and fun and slightly tongue in cheek, but without being nasty or piss-takey, if I can use that term. This is recorded IRL, as the kids say, in real life, in a studio, not remotely, not in a chicken shop, in case you're wondering. And I think the conversation speaks for itself, flowing freely like a fine glass of diet soda. There's a reference to Andrew Tate, who I think you will know is a controversial masculinity guru, in case that needed explaining. And just to say the episode contains some strong language and some sensitive and upsetting themes. And that's about it. Is there anything to cover the bases?

Oh, and I've got a terrible voice. I was coming off a cold, as I say, so maybe I don't need to say that. Redundancy alert. This is me, Louis. I am just talking to myself. I can see Amelia through the window. I am just talking to myself. I can see Amelia through the window. One, two, one, two. Hello. Hello.

How are you? Nice to see you. You too. Little hug. Sorry, a hug. I'm sorry about my voice. I sound terrible. I'm coming off a cold.

Are you okay? I'm fine. I just feel sorry for the listeners' feedback. Wait, is this recording now? Yeah, of course. Wait, are we recording now? It's a soft open, yeah. Is this live? Are we not live?

We're not live. We're not broadcasting out. So are we recording now? 1-2-1-2. I think so. Unless Paul's doing his job. So this is called the soft opening? It's when you just sort of roll into it.

When you trick the guest. Did you need to get into character? Yeah, I was about to put a different outfit on. Anyway, by way of just sort of kicking this off i know you've done this a million times and it's so boring but do you want to explain for those sad benighted souls who aren't familiar with chicken shop date yeah because they've been living under a rock because they don't have the internet should i just do a little yeah well chicken shop date which is what the show is called i would say it's a comedy series as much as it is an interview series where I go on dates to chicken shops with talented individuals, whether you're a pop star, a rapper, a documentary maker.

That was me. That was you, yeah. I think that I'm the only documentary, not bigging myself up, but was there another documentary maker? Well, Ed Sheeran is going to put a documentary out. Yeah. But that's not really the same. I don't think that really counts. That's like calling me a musician.

Yeah, I mean... On the basis of Jiggle Jiggle. I mean, some people would. And more of that to come, by the way. But yeah, so that's kind of what Chicken Shop Day is. It's a YouTube series where I date famous men and women. And they're always quite short. I remember because when I appeared on it,

we taped for, I would say, maybe slightly more than an hour. I'm not complaining. I enjoyed every minute of it. It definitely wasn't. It definitely was 40 minutes. I think it was about an hour and a half because there was a bit of faffing around. Yeah, because you came on a bike.

There were so many people. You know, when I used to interview, and this was for TV, not YouTube, there'd be a camera, sound, a producer, and that was it. Okay, so basically, when I'm filming a chicken shop date, the real story is that there'll be two camera operators because obviously one camera has to be on me, one camera has to be on the guest. Why can't they swing back and forth?

That's not the style. I don't want that style. Someone has asked me that before. What are you, Cecil B. DeMille? Yeah, I actually, I don't want to work very seriously, actually. There's two cameras and then there's a sound operator i never used to have a sound operator and it used to be a nightmare there's a couple of early ones where the sound is not good yeah thanks yeah the most important thing is that you have good sound quality because otherwise no one's going to engage with it i would agree

but people have said that it's a small team when they come that wasn't the impression i had but then also they're crammed into a relatively small space. Okay, can I just say, we were in one of the biggest chicken shops I've ever filmed in when I filmed with you. Well, it was two shops. It was two big rooms. It was double-sided.

So actually you had a great airy deal with that and a small crew and a huge shop. The nuggets were quite cold. It's one of those things where are the nuggets props or do I eat them? And then you eat them and you're like, I'm a bit cold. But nuggets were quite cold. It's one of those things where are the nuggets props or do I eat them and you eat them like a bit cold but that's sounding very negative. You are and you ask for a coffee and that's the one thing that you can't get in a chicken shop. Someone had to run up to Costa. Yeah. How would you describe the tone because the tone is the key to it and it's been

characterized as awkward which is sort of overused words but that's sort of the the key to the whole thing isn't it yeah it is and I was actually thinking about this the other day I guess it is awkward but I feel like maybe I'm awkward sometimes because I pause for longer than usual or I reply in a way that it's almost as if I'm not listening to what they've just said and I move on to a completely different question. I would say, though, they don't feel terribly awkward in the sense that it's almost like safe awkwardness where it's understood that part of the deal is

it won't be a conventional interview. I never watch it with sweaty palms feeling, oh, this is uncomfortable. And there is a genre of TV that's related that does do that where you think they're going to realise they're having the mickey taken and it's going to jump the tracks. I mean, I've done encounters like that. Not really intentionally.

Are you conscious of that, of the fact that the people know what they're walking into and so they just roll with it? It's more of a space that they can play in than in anything like a tense encounter. Yeah, I don't want it to feel like a tense encounter. That's not my intention. My intention is for it to be funny, first of all. I want it to be entertaining, and I feel like maybe it was just natural from the conception

that my sense of humour was more aligned with something that feels kind of awkward. But no, I'm never trying to catch anyone out, and my intention is always to make the person opposite me look good. And sometimes I make them look better than they actually are not not you obviously Louis um not not you is that a serious point though you make people look better than they are sometimes I feel like some people can come across maybe uninterested they can't really take themselves too seriously I think when

people take themselves too seriously that's when I feel like okay in the edit I'm going to shape this so that you come across like you're actually engaged within this conversation and that you're a fun person rather than somebody that's maybe overthinking their responses and also I like having a short episode I like to cut the fat out of everything. I definitely love listening and watching to extended conversations. But me personally, I'm not interested in creating that kind of conversation. They're all under 10 minutes, aren't they? Yeah, they're all under 10 minutes. I remember I had a really strict rule before when I started being like it should be under five minutes.

And then we would be cutting a lot of things out of episodes. And I think often I found myself, as I've been doing this show now for nearly 10 years, it'll be 10 years next year, sometimes bound by my own rules that I've created for myself and having to check myself and be like, hang on, no, you actually have the freedom to do whatever you want. You are your commissioner.

So if you want to make an episode 10 minutes, I can make an episode 10 minutes. But I don't because I just only want to use the best funniest parts what are the rules I remember when I did it you might have said hello but I think you said I don't really like to talk to people before the interview or the or the date whatever it is before I used to be really strict with it and just really not say anything to anyone before they arrived and then even when they left I'd be like thanks bye and I think also that's like a lack of confidence in me and as I've grown older and I've been doing it for more years I've realized actually it's not necessary for me to ignore the person before they arrive and

actually it could be beneficial to say hello and to not warm them up but to give them a bit of a briefing. Have you ever filmed one and not used it? No, I haven't. I've probably... Have I ever wanted to? I don't know. I'm asking myself. Sometimes I've thought, oh, this is not going to land. And then I'm surprised that actually it does.

Do you know what the top rated ones are? Yeah, the Jack Harlow episode. Is that the number one? I've got the figures here if you don't know. The Chunks and Philly one. How many has that got? Views I'm talking about. 15 million.

16 million. H, 15 million. Jack Harlow, 14 million. Then comes an irrelevant older dude. Louis Theroux, 11 million. February 2022 ksi 8.6 dave 7.4 ed sheeran 6.6 that's quite incredible that i'm number four yeah i mean i watched it on a permanent loop and then you leave it on overnight but what's that gonna add yeah i know probably a few thousand probably probably not that many central Sea has got 6.2 million

in the space of just a couple of months or a month. Yeah. That's amazing. There's got to be some American eyes on that. Yeah, definitely. The analytics for my YouTube channel now is split evenly between America and the UK. I don't think I'm bringing many Americans,

though it pains me to admit. I feel like the jiggle jiggle part of that episode is obviously the thing that people are coming for when they see that not for the incisive documentary making insights actually if you look at the comments which i have done a lot of them are about how they didn't know who you were ouch and now they are going to watch your documentaries. Okay. Yeah. So I actually have done you a pretty big favour.

It started bad and then it went good. And then they watched the documentaries and they didn't like them. They were more than 10 minutes long. It blew their mind. They didn't know TV could last that long. That's one of my favourite episodes, the Louis Theroux one. Why would that be one of your favourites? Because, as you said, you're not the typical guest I have on the show. So when I went on it I hadn't full disclosure well when I was

asked or someone mentioned that we could do it as promotion for a series that we had going out I had heard of it but I hadn't seen it and I don't even know how the request came in I'm assuming the BBC social media team were big fans of yours and said this would be great and not that you actually said that you'd like to have me on. Yeah I did had was asking for you for years really yeah and it wasn't happening and then i wasn't getting that request i don't think really maybe there's a lot of people to go through yeah exactly i'm like well like drake i suppose yeah exactly like drake no actually you're not because he does everything himself like he won't give me the email to any of his team. More like Dr. Dre, maybe.

Yeah, I would say maybe Dr. Dre, yeah. Anyway, it came through the BBC PR team. And then I watched the Ed Sheeran one, and I thought, this is fun. And he plays along very gamely, and he plays something on his ukulele or a little guitar or something. Which I suppose a ukulele is a little guitar. Exactly. And then I realised much later that you hadn't really had, not only no other documentary type people,

but perhaps no one over 30. Isn't Ed Sheeran over 30? Yeah, he might. Maybe no one over 35 or 40. Certainly no one 51 or whatever I was then. What made you... I mean, this is... Okay, this is weird, but what...

Am I going to ask this what yeah i think it's interesting question what made you want to have me as a guest because you're somebody that my audience the audience of chicken shop day are actually familiar with because you have a very young audience as well and so to me it made sense the idea of having somebody that was sat in a different space because i always think about how it can broaden out who I could have on next. Yeah. Because I'm thinking, okay,

so if so-and-so sees Louis Theroux has done the show, then maybe this is going to open it towards... Someone you really want. Someone I actually want. Yeah. Yeah. Like, who would be like a dream, sort of not, you know, obviously you want people like...

David Attenborough. For real? It'd be cool to... David Attenborough. For real? It'd be cool to get David Attenborough on, not that he would do it now because he's, I don't think he's doing anything, but someone like that, you know, someone who people would be surprised to see in that situation, but would love to see an interview with and that people really love their work separately. You must have lots of people who come to you who'd like to be on it and maybe you don't think they'd be right.

Yeah, definitely. must have lots of people who come to you who'd like to be on it and maybe you don't think they'd be right yeah definitely I feel like I'm always thinking when I get a request in which I do now I get lots of publicists or management or whoever it is emailing it's like first of all am I a fan if I'm not a fan of the person I wouldn't do the interview and is my audience going to be excited when I release this episode when I say who the episode's with and also I'm very particular with who I have on I don't have a set release schedule so I just basically film when there's a guest that I want to film with so I don't have to be doing one a week there's no delivery schedule no which is a good thing and sometimes it can be a negative thing so who's your boss I'm a boss that. That's the thing now about content creators. So you can basically, I mean, I'm being slightly silly.

I think I realised that you were your own boss, but you could just state the obvious. Whoever you want. If you said, I want to put my mate on or whatever, and you get paid from advertising that comes up on YouTube. From the views. Does it pay quite well? Yeah, if you're getting millions of views,

like I am, basically you could live off the money, yeah. Maybe you are living off it. Yeah, sorry, I am living off it, but I'm just trying to think because I do other things to make money as well, other than YouTube. I think if I only did YouTube,

I could still live off that money. But I just put the money that I make from the YouTube views into making more episodes. Really? Yeah, so it's just self-sufficient. So you're not making millions? No, I'm not making millions, no. I'm making thousands.

And then I just... What about sponsorships? Have you done that? I specifically don't want Chicken Shop Date to be sponsored because I love having the complete creative control and I don't want there to be a promo within the episode at all. And I'm very happy to use my own money to make the episodes if it means I can just do it whenever I want in the way that I want have the length that I want and have

the content that I want yeah how quickly do you get a sense of whether an episode is doing well you can tell like within the first day the first 24 hours do you check in the car just now I just went on the flow episode i just put out an episode with a girl group called flow oh yeah yeah and i haven't checked the views until today monday and it came out on friday and it's on 300 000 views and that's probably the low end of the views that i usually get now interesting yeah but it's because they're new they're a newer group and that's why i wanted to have them on as well You're getting quite far from the concept of a date at that point, when there's three of them, unless you're polyamorous and bi-curious,

which you may well be. I'm not. What do they call that when there's four women in a sexual relationship? I don't know. You out of anyone would know. Yes, I would. Because you've probably done a documentary on that. Oh.

That's what I was going to say. Oh. That's what I was going to say. Sorry. That's what I meant by that. Do you get sick and tired of people saying, you know who you should do? Barry Manilow. Who you should do, by the way. No one's ever said that.

I remember when I've done celebrity interviews 20 years ago when I did When Louis Met, a series. I love that. Thank you. And around that time, my friends, even my family would be saying, you know who you have? He'd be perfect for you. I love that. I'm like, he's the acting president. He's actually president. How am I going to live with him for two weeks filming? He's got a country to run. He's got a war.

Me living with him is not going to be a priority. My, speaking of presidents, my team had a call with president's team. Which one? Biden's team. No. Yeah, I know. They told me that. Are you serious?

I've not got the update, but they said that they think he'd be a fan. You know you're saying this to me on my podcast. Oh, sorry. But that's like, that's news. Yeah, no, I don't know what's going to happen. I haven't had the update. Wait, are you sure it isn't someone having a laugh? Well, maybe. I don't know. Apparently his team think that he would be a fan of my style of interviewing. Are you serious? But I don't think I would care.

That would be hilarious. I don't think I would agree to do a chicken shop date with Joe Biden. Why not? I think it would be so random. It's like Obama went on Marc Maron's podcast and it was a news event. Everyone said it was a bit boring. Donald Trump's always trying to go on Joe Rogan, so they say. Have you heard that?

Yeah. Biden on chicken shop dates. And then there was also a request in that sometimes when these requests come in well would you have him on I don't know I don't think so I think it would be even if it's bad it's still good no not that I think it would be bad but wouldn't it just be like too random I can't believe you're even asking that the only downside is that where else can you go after that? I think that, see, there's a thing. You will have climbed,

there'll be no new worlds left to conquer, as John of the Great said. That's why I'm thinking differently because my dream would not be that, would not be Joe Biden. Your dream would be... Would be Drake. Drake.

Boring. But that's kind of a joke, isn't it? Yeah, it's kind of a joke, but it is also real. Not that Drake's boring, but he is a bit boring. Maybe I shouldn't say that. He could be listening to this and crying. He's probably listening to this and crying.

I hate to think of Champagne Pappy crying into his champagne. I'm such a boomer that I try to... I was like, I need to follow Drake on Instagram, and I couldn't find him anywhere. And people are like, no, he's called Champagne Pappy on Insta yeah I was the last person to learn that would you ever change your name on Instagram to something like Champagne Louis yeah maybe Prosecco Louis probably that way more accurate yeah more accurate in terms of your question about people asking me about future guests often they're people I actually want to get on the show I'm curious about the ones that

you wouldn't be quite. Would you have Donald Trump on? No, absolutely not. Why not? Because I don't like him. And I think he's an awful person. And a dangerous person. There was a perceptible vibe shift.

You reacted viscerally. Weren't you asked if you would interview Andrew Tate? Probably, I get asked that quite a bit. He'd be good on Chicken Shop. Oh, Mike, oh my no he would not a lot of audience overlap he would oh you think young people no I don't think they're not all in their same lanes you know like there's a lot of crossover actually you know what what I thought was quite sad actually was that I went to a school visit with young boys and girls and then, it was like a Q&A. And I think they must have been like in year 10.

And they were asking me who I'd want to get on the show. And then lots of the boys were shouting, get Andrew Tate, get Andrew Tate on the show. And I was just surprised that they were wanting him to be on the show. Because in my mind, he's like such a awful misogynist he's under investigation for sex trafficking and yeah he's been released on bail i believe on house arrest but what he's got hundreds of millions of views on tiktok so the constituency is there and i don't know if you've followed it but they're having to sort of do interventions at schools to teach kids about sexism and about the dangers of toxic masculinity

because his reach is so enormous. I'm not interested in getting those types of people on the show. I actually think often platforming such people, I don't want to be involved in doing that kind of thing. I'd much rather just get Ed Sheeran. Barry Manilow? Oh, Barry Manilow. Would he be good?

No. Why not? Again, because I'm thinking about my audience, and I'm thinking that... I would watch that. You would watch that, yeah, but do you even actually watch Chicken Shop Day? Well, I've been watching a lot of them...

In preparation for this. I also got Bernie Sanders come through. No, you never. But I don't know if they actually... More news. I don't know if he had... I don't think he'd agreed. I think his team...

Often it's the team who think it's a fun idea. He's not really your demographic. Well, any more than Joe Biden. He's not my demographic, but then... Americans in their 80s and 90s. But then again, that's an interesting one because I would have been more inclined to do a chicken straight with Bernie Sanders,

for example, because I think that his politics align more with mine. And also, he has a young audience. Who are your other celebrity fans? We got Biden, Bernie Sanders. I don't even know if they're actually fans. I think their team are fans. Pharrell. Pharrell. Drake. Drake actually messaged you, didn't he, and said... Yeah, he messaged me last week.

Again? Yeah. What did he say? I interviewed the Arsenal goalkeeper, Aaron Ramsdale, and I posted it on my Instagram. And he replied saying, you look great together. Drake did? Champagne Pappy?

Yeah. He must have a very big team. No, it was him. And then I just replied saying, yeah, shame, he's engaged. And then he replied saying, good job, I'm not. No, he didn't. Yeah, and then I said, thank, yeah, shame, he's engaged. And then he replied saying, good job, I'm not. No, he didn't.

Yeah. And then I said, thank God. For realsies. Yeah. But I don't message him. He messages me randomly, like stuff like this. He's just leading me on. It will happen.

The date will happen in the future, soon. Well, I've said before, I want to end the series with his episode. You know, that whole platforming, no platforming. Do you ever feel, this is more something i should be asking myself there have been people where you've made them look better than they deserve to an extent where you feel slightly ethically questionable i don't think so i don't it's not like i don't know not like you and that guy yeah um no not like that. But hang on, I did an investigative documentary.

Yeah, and you didn't find out any of the actual things you meant to find out. Well, that's not quite true, but I'll take that on the chin. Zooming out for a second, what do you think it is that works about the format? And why do you think it connects? And by the way, we will talk about some other things in a second. Why do you think it's reached the huge success that it has? Because it really does seem to be on this long crescendo over the last few years that shows no sign of abating. You've been profiled in the New York Times, the Washington Post.

You've been on podcasts in America. Pharrell was talking about it. You appeared on his podcast. There's this extraordinary reach we talked about length of the episodes and the humor but it's something more than that isn't it must be well I guess I don't know I feel like maybe you'll be better at answering it than me from an outside perspective on like why people connect with it but I think definitely because of how long I've been doing it I think that's one reason 10. 10 years and actually even longer than 10 years

because it was a column in the magazine first when I was 17. So over 10 years really of the format. And I think the consistency of building an audience and not just building an audience, but building up momentum of like the higher profile of guests and the global reach of the guests. So like artists, not just from the UK like that's definitely grown the channel and grown people's perception of the show.

Do you think there's anything in it's not true of all the episodes but in many of them you're talking to black British artists who people have only seen in the context of you know their videos and knowing their music and there's a prejudice or maybe a preconception that they'll be intimidating or scary and they come across very likable and warm and friendly i mean the diggity episode i mean i like his music and yet i wasn't prepared for how silly in a good way he is right and he says people call me dig a doo-doo and then there's a bit where he talks about his hamster yeah he like put the hamster in the oven. No, next to the oven.

He said, I had a hamster called Harry. It died. My mum put it in the oven. It woke back up and then it died again. Which was shocking to me. Which is supernatural, really. And also you being obviously, let's identify the elephant in the room, you know, white and middle class.

There's this sort of slight sense of culture clash that at the same time feels very comfortable so there's a sort of life affirming if I can call it that aspect to it does that make sense yeah that does make sense and I think that when you're watching their music videos and as you said like they come across as like having a very like hard outer shell and actually within my episodes I'm asking them silly questions where you get a sense of their personality, that actually they are actually a lot softer on the inside. Because also a lot of the time I'm interviewing people that don't really do interviews. So often they actually haven't had a chance to showcase their personality.

And often maybe when they do interviews, it's really heavily on the music. maybe when they do interviews, it's really heavily on the music. Questions that I probably wouldn't ask, because I often don't really ask them about their music unless it's to recite a lyric back to them, coded in a way of flirting. Just to get this out of the way, there was a little moment where, I mean, I think in general you're very loved, right? In fact, I don't think I know you are, and your work is very loved. And in fact, it's also watched by everyone, like across the board.

It's definitely not, if I can call it it that it's not in the media village like it's got millions of people who are not just fans of grime but people from the grime world or from all the kind of worlds of different cultures notwithstanding all of that there was a moment when it felt like there was a little squirt of negative feedback do you know what i'm talking about where one or two people perhaps on twitter which is inevitable it's just the way of the world right we're saying what's this white middle-class girl doing interviewing black artists and then a guy in America was saying like and it's in a chicken shop implying that that was racially insensitive was that uncomfortable and how did you sort of process that whole experience yeah obviously when you have kind of feedback like that, it's uncomfortable, because it just always will be. But I think that that comment in particular, the feedback that people said that that's not how the show is seen to be. But the conversation that did come out of that was just a broader conversation about like access and privilege, and the privilege that white people get more more than non-white people, into how they progress within media.

And there needs to be more support for non-white journalists or creators to be given the same opportunities. And that conversation was something that I think is a really crucial one to have, rather than the other one about whether people should be interviewed in chicken shops. Makes sense. Why is it in a chicken shop? The chicken shop element happened because when I was at the youth club where I started chicken shop day the first idea was that I wanted to interview musicians and the second bit was that I want it to be a date and then someone said oh you should go on a date

where you would never usually go on a date to make it funny and so that's how the chicken shop element happened. There was chicken shops like all on the road of the youth club and it just made sense that that would be a place that no one would ever think to go on a date in so that's that's literally how it happened you know I think a bit like you occasionally I've been criticized probably more than you and I think it can be uncomfortable when you notice people on Twitter or elsewhere criticizing or saying that what you do, there's something wrong with it. But you also have to accept that's just part of being in the public eye, isn't it? It doesn't make them right. It doesn't make them wrong.

But to please everyone all the time would be impossible. I also think that because of the times we live in, people are understandably sensitive about issues around class and race and that's and so they should be. And at the same time, there's, I think bad actors, or, you know, people who actually have an agenda looking to weaponize apparent conflict. I'm thinking of places like Mail Online, where they can get a headline out of one person on Twitter saying, oh, Louis Theroux, or Amelia de Moldenberg called racist or you know what I mean? And then that's a guaranteed click, isn't it? Anyway, I think you know all of this, but yeah, so the internet runs on. Yeah, for sure. And there's always going to be criticism on

anything that you do. And some of it is more valid than others. But yeah, I think the main valid thing within that conversation is the playing field isn't level. What I can do, I guess, is just make sure that my team is diverse, that I never have all white crews, that I'm doing as much as I can in terms of like giving workshops or giving access to more people and yeah just to make sure that the content of my shows continues to be great and that no one has an issue with the content you know very good how comfortable are you talking about your personal life in what sense are you in a relationship no I'm just you know I'm laughing because I've watched so many interviews of you that you do. And I also feel like when you're an interviewer yourself, it's strange when people ask you questions about yourself. Anyway, carry on. You went out with H for a bit.

Yeah. But you're on record. That's not, I think you've talked about that. You talked about your chemistry. Yeah, we've got great chemistry. Meaning what? I don't know. Yeah, we've got great chemistry. Meaning what? I don't know. We go on really well.

People can see the chemistry between us. I don't really know. Yeah, exactly. What does chemistry mean? Have you done chemistry together? What? Louis! So you went out for a week or so?

Yeah. For those who don't know, he's a very talented rapper from Manchester, I believe. Yeah, he is. Who's got a huge following. He's got what? A huge following. He's got a huge following, yeah. How big is his following?

Louis, you're actually ridiculous. We've gone very low road. We really have. No, it was very intense, that period of time. It made me think, I don't really know how people date people who are in the public eye. It's so overwhelming. And then also it's like...

Did you have paparazzi around? No, I've never actually been followed by paparazzi. It was just a bit of a whirlwind of a lot of attention from the media. But then we were also putting it out there. So it was sort of like... So you were playing with it? Yeah, was all just snowballed basically so the relationship couldn't withstand all the scrutiny yeah exactly that's exactly why it deteriorated it was just too much and also I I wanted to date other people who on my dating show and you can't really interfere one with the

other can it no I have been in a relationship before when I had the show. But since then, I haven't been actually seriously dating anyone. Why not? Because no one asked me out. Come on. Maybe I'm just too picky. I don't know. You need to lower your standards, maybe.

I think I maybe need to lower my standards. Maybe I'm reaching for reaching for the stars don't go chasing waterfalls yeah stick to the rivers and the valleys you're used to i'm in the mood to fall in love for sure i think it's going to happen for me this year that's quite a high bar maybe you should just be looking for fun yeah well i'm also looking for that but that seems even harder do you think guys might have an issue that i have a dating show it really doesn't feel like a you know hate to break it to you they don't feel like you're on a real date what i know what it feels like you're having a bit of fun are you serious except when you did lady leisure and

she kept inviting you back to her flat yes you did i couldn't figure that out i didn't go no obviously it's not a real date but sometimes i do think why couldn't i meet someone on the show am i crazy for thinking that is that really deluded of me it's just to me it feels like you just meet someone in the office well I think so it's as valid a place as anywhere else sometimes the lines are blurred and I think it confuses me sometimes that's why sometimes I think I should just end the show and then maybe I actually will really fall in love I can see that long time ago, I had to do an episode of Weird Weekends where I went to a swingers party. I've seen that one. And I had to bring a date. And so part of the

program followed me placing an ad, meeting a woman and taking her to the swingers party where I was going to swing potentially with her. And the whole thing felt quite uncomfortable. Obviously, I wasn't really going to swing, as in have sex with this virtual stranger on BBC Two. Not BBC Two. I know, of all the channels to do it on, maybe Channel Four. I know I was in a relationship at the time, it all just felt very uncomfortable and I didn't enjoy it. Similarly, I did one about a brothel and I got a massage from a woman who worked there called Hayley and I had to show

it to the woman who's now my wife you know before it went out I was like well here's me half naked being massaged with oils in the wild horse resort and spa and my wife was very cool about it but I didn't like it so I think that does that relate to what we're talking about well no not really because i'm not getting massaged like that in a spa no but it's not far off i think it is it's a similar same ballpark well no i don't know i would hate to do anything like that i am always across the table from someone and like never gets heated in any way other than when matty healy like asked to kiss me but then i just said that was a good episode i know i love that episode because he was willing to sort of raise the stakes yeah and also he's got this interesting sort of borderline angry energy what does he say commit to the bit if it's going to be a date then you should kiss me

he says i do genuinely find you quite attractive just to break the fourth wall and you say I just smoked a cigarette I can't reach it was quite I like to see you out of your comfort zone I think in general when I see prank adjacent style interviews I like it when there's this danger of the interviewer is not completely in control and that was one of those where you felt actually I think Amelia's met her match with this one have you ever had a moment like that when you felt out of control always in fact that's what I sort of specialize in trying to get out of my depth that's the 10 word version of how I describe my approach to documentaries really I try to get out of my comfort zone but are you doing that

because you at the end of the day you know that you're going to be in the edit I'm doing it because I want to make a compelling tv program and I'm comfortable doing it because I know that there's a safety net of the edit and if it doesn't work we'll just clip it out but if I'm interviewing someone and it's a borderline confrontational interview, like as a guy interviewed, he was basically a lion breeder who would invite people to shoot lions on his property in this semi-enclosed space. And I said, well, what kind of hunting is that? It's like tennis without a net. And he said, you've asked me that fucking question 15 times. I don't care about it.

I hate fucking elephants. They don't eat the shitty bush they eat the big bush and then he comes up and puts his hand over the thing and i'm thinking a is he gonna hit me because he looked like he might and i'm visibly scared if you look at the materials in the program but mainly i'm thinking wow this is this is the good stuff yeah you're out of your comfort zone but then it also seems like you've got someone on the edge of something. It's conflict. Yeah.

It's uncomfortable. I mean, that's awkward, which I think is perhaps not the mood that you're going for. Is H going to punch? Well, H isn't a good example. Well, I didn't know that Matty would do that. Like, that was completely off. Of course.

And that's what I also love about the show, is that I can prepare my questions, but i never know what they're going to say you're listening to the Louis Theroux Podcast. Hi, I'm Louis Theroux, and you're listening to the Louis Theroux Podcast. And now back to my conversation with Amelia de Moldenberg. We've got so much good stuff, and I haven't really got to the main point. I mean, I suppose the main... No, it's not really. That was a joke. Really, it would be nice to get a little sense of where you grew up,

a little bit about your parents and sort of background. I grew up opposite Edgware Road Station in North West London. Not on the actual road because it's quite a busy road. Yeah, it's a really busy road. Six lanes of traffic. Yeah. You were actually on that road yeah quite high up yeah fourth floor and even with the double glazing really noisy and then also it is one of the most polluted roads in Europe I cycle along it and I would be walking down that road to get to school every day for my whole adolescence so I am pretty concerned about my they still had lead in the petrol in those days did they oh they did in the 70s um no I wasn't

around in the 70s my postcode is nw1 but I would say it's more central London really it really is it's like really in the in the middle no one really lives there yeah no one is that diplomats none of my and radio and djs well actually there's lots of different people who live around there. Not many families. You don't think, oh, I want to raise my kids next to Europe's most polluted road. There are also people who live around Edgware Road. Well, your parents, they just like city life, I guess. Yeah, they do.

It's crazy to me because I'm always like, guys, why are you still living here? And they also sometimes do complain a lot about the noise and the sirens and the building work that's always going on. And I'm like, why don't you just move? Anyway, they like it. So I grew up there with my mum, my dad and my sister. Your dad was a Labour councillor. Yeah, he is a Labour councillor.

Still is. He's been a Labour councillor for over 30 years, always in the opposition and Westminster Council, never actually in charge. Then last year, Labour won in Westminster for the first time in a very, very, very long time. And it was actually the year that he was meant to retire. And everyone had bought his retirement present. My mum was really excited for him to retire with her because she was a librarian and now she's retired.

Librarian in the same area? Librarian, Hammersmith and Chepstow Bush Library. Really? Yeah. So we spend a lot of time in libraries. Like after school, we just always go to the library. My family's massive bookworms.

Oh, that's lovely. Do you read a lot? No. Why not? Well, I do, but I don't. They read like a book a week. They're like insane. I don't do that

because I just have never been into reading as much as them, but they're really, really well read. And it is great because I actually kind of use them for their knowledge so I just basically like leech off their knowledge of their in what situations I don't know like with my sister you've got one sister one sister yeah and we work very year younger I believe she's 18 months younger yeah she was a year below me at school and we're really close and we live together and she's so well read and she's honestly one of

the smartest people I've ever met like she purposefully watches university challenge and like will answer like a lot of the questions i like to use it purposefully as opposed to accidentally sorry i meant more she watches university challenge and purposefully answers questions that's normal i think i don't think in my world yeah in your world that is for sure that's your world louis through world yeah but I don't know. I just think she's very smart, and so I like to ask her opinion all the time on stuff. And my parents, too, sometimes they'll also let me know about certain things.

I don't know, I just think that it's great that they read. It's important. It's an important skill. But they read for pleasure, I think, is your point. Sorry, they read for pleasure, and basically, yeah, my dad is still a Labour councillor because they won in Westminster and now he's busier than ever actually being whatever his job is. I think he's in charge of the streets.

That's very apropos, isn't it? Keeping the streets clean. He's on the road. He's on the road. He's out on the streets. You're a chicken shop date. You must know about being on the road. It means you're fully in the lifestyle.

Yeah, okay. He's gangster. Well, he's gangster to a level. He's on the road. It means you're fully in the lifestyle. Yeah, okay. He's gangster. Well, he's gangster to a level. He's on the streets. He's gangster in terms of... Dealing. Dealing streetlights and good parking. Yeah.

It's a hot commodity. We should probably talk about Jiggle Jiggle just for a second, shouldn't we? Yeah, sure. Why not? So just to get this out of the way, I don't know if you knew this. I had a viral rap track called Jiggle Jiggle. I had no idea about that. My money don't jiggle jiggle, it folds.

I'd like to see you wiggle wiggle, for sure. It makes me want to dribble dribble, you know. That's as much as you're going to get. Well, we don't get the riding in the Fiat. Riding in my Fiat, you really have to see it. Six fake two with a compact, no slack. But luckily the seats go back on, not to relax in my mind. I'm sipping on some red red wine

the full story is obviously when you hosted me on chicken shop date you asked me about the rap i did the rap you were kind enough your team was to send over a rough cut to give us an idea of what it was going to look like and i don't think i've told you this i mean i'm not the best judge of what's funny and what's not when I'm involved. Right, okay. And certainly not for your audience. I did think, wow, they put the rap in, okay. My wife looked at it and was like, oh, tell them to take the rap out. Really?

You know, everyone knows that rap, it's so old. And I was like, yeah, I know what you mean, but they know their audience and let's not get in the way. Isn't that extraordinary, though? Because it turns out that was my route to fame and vast wealth. So then what happened from my end was a few weeks after it went out, everyone was happy and people said, oh, that's really funny. And then a few weeks on from that, my agent got in touch and said that TikTok had been in touch. Their computers were blowing up because of the vast demand

for the TikTok rap sensation that was Jiggle Jiggle. God, it sounds dangerous. It had been remixed by Duke and Jones in Manchester. Two young women called Jess and... Brooke. Jess and Brooke in South London had done a dance and celebrities around the world, including... Shakira.

Shakira. Snoop Dogg. Snoop Dogg, Lizzo, Megan Thee Stallion, Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez. She was basically one of the first. Oh, she, love her. And others, to name a few, were doing the dance and doing the rap or whatever. And then it was getting literally hundreds of millions and then maybe even billions of streams and views now granted it's only about 10 or 12 seconds long it's not like watching a half hour long program but nevertheless it was huge and then as you know we ended up doing a video for it Jason Derulo sang on it we drove around East London in a in a Fiat You made a weird sound with your lips. No, I was just remembering it.

Was that boredom? No, well, I have heard, I do know this whole story. Is this for the audience? A lot of people might not know about this. Sorry, of course, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, they, yeah. I wish I could do that with my lips. It was like a horse whinnying. Sorry, no, I'm not bored, I'm not bored.

I can't do it. Sorry, carry on. No, I'm not going to say any more about it now. No, it wasn't. You've ruined my flow. I've lost my place. It didn't. I can't remember what. Sorry, carry on. No, I'm not going to say any more about it now. No, it wasn't. You've ruined my flow. I've lost my place. I can't remember what I was talking about. I didn't mean to do that.

I'm thrown. Guys, can we stop for a second? I'm thrown. I don't know. You'd honestly, you got to the end of the story. I hadn't. Okay. Because it was a bit about walking past schools.

Wait, it's not weird. Let me finish the sentence. I would walk past schools and the little children would come and flock to me and say, jiggle, jiggle, or it's Louis Theroux, believe it or not. Eight, nine, ten-year-olds. Why were you walking by schools, you're thinking? Because I have children, I would drop them off at school and I live near a school. And then even in America, when I went on holidays, this is going on for ages.

No, it's not. everyone's really enjoying this story and basically it conquered america and even in america i would get stopped it was like beetle mania beetle mania and people would run around chasing me down the road and you said thanks for the interview now i can't leave the house without being hounded by young people. By tweens and young teens. And I thought, oh my God, I've ruined Louis Theroux's life. Well, you definitely didn't ruin my life. The only downside is I feel I got famous to a level that I'd never experienced before based on something I don't actually do.

Isn't that so crazy though, that you can never have imagined I never imagined and also never replicate you know it's not like they've found out that I write poetry and everyone loves it and I've got reams of the stuff it's like it's something that I don't do I'm not a rapper and I don't write comedy viral raps but I feel like if you know I feel like I want more I've had a taste of paradise yeah and I've got nothing left just the whole thing was just so brilliant like everything about it and also just how joyful the whole thing is like it's just a fun song which loads of people of all ages can dance and sing to and I just think that's a great thing to be a part of briefly because they've heard my version I'm not sure

how interested people are in in your side of it but briefly what was your experience of being part of my rap sensation just that like just like i said i just think it's so fun to be a part of something that was just so fun with did you get how did you find out that it had become the biggest thing in the history of the world probably through you just banging on about it the whole time. If I'm being honest, I never could have imagined that that's how whatever relationship we have, whatever's going on, our best friendship that we have. Professional respect.

Professional mutual respect. I always thought that maybe the way that I would meet you would be like at one of your book tours. You used to imagine meeting me. Yeah, that I would put my hand up in one of your book tours and be like... Hitting the panic button. Paul, you're still there. Can you calm down? That I would put my hand up and be like,

oh, I've got a question about your interview stuff, blah, blah, blah. But actually what really happened was... Why would you put on that voice? So you would not recognise me as I was in disguise. And actually the way that it's happened is just not what I would ever imagine, that we'd actually then have a song together that we'd film a music video for,

where we'd be riding around in a Fiat and I'd be wearing a Gucci headscarf. And now I'm here talking about it again on your own podcast. Like, you can never imagine. And that's what I love about the world. You can have ambitions or you can have dreams or whatever of things but then they just don't ever happen in the way that you think that they will and they may be happening in an even better way that's nice so it was an ambition to meet me on a book tour not no well yeah just it was an ambition of mine

to meet to meet you and to talk to you yeah and now i'm really talking to you way too much and actually if anything i think we should just stop talking to each other what would you have asked me i would have asked you a very insightful brilliant question that i would have thought about long and hard and you would have been really impressed and you would have thought oh my god who's that she needs to actually you never planned the actual question what and bring me on to the team? And bring me on to the team. Oh.

You've also got lots of other series you do. You do a cooking one. We've only spoken about Chicken Shop Day this whole time. But it's significant. It gets a lot of views. And your other stuff gets views, but not mega, mega views. No, the brand name is big with the Chicken Shop Day, for sure. You do the cooking show.

The cooking show that I'm probably not going to continue doing because I just think I had fun now. I don't want to move on been there done that been there done that and you've done your red carpet chats can you hear my stomach rumbling are you hungry i can't actually okay are you all right yeah no i'm okay yeah do you want a sandwich no no i'm good do you want some chicken nuggets concerned um that you'd hear paul is the sound all right i don't think we can hear that sounds fine oh yeah the red carpet stuff i've been doing that's been great i've actually been doing red carpet interviews for a while like the first red carpet interview i did was at the mobo awards over five years ago maybe and i loved it and i loved that style of interviewing people which is

what off the cuff live in the moment nothing drags because it's just moving moving moving and that's so my style of like wanting to just be quick and feel like there's a real energy there. I knew that that's what I wanted to do moving forward, like maybe like two years ago. More red carpet stuff. Yeah, because I like doing them. And I thought that would be a great way for people to know

that I can do more than Chicken Shop Day and that I have a skill as an interviewer and I can be placed in numerous different situations that I can still do a great job and can get some great things out of people and I also love the challenge of the red carpet because you can have an idea of who's going to be there but you never know actually who you're going to get so it's up to you to be able to wrangle the interview with people it's up to you to make the most out of the one minute you have with someone so there's a lot of parameters that are

put on the situation and you have to thrive within it and I like that the challenge you did a famous red carpet interview famous as in went viral with Andrew Garfield yeah it was flirtatious they said you weren't you at the Oscars as well or was it it Golden Globes? I did the red carpet at the Golden Globes, and then I also did the Vanity Fair Oscars. Throw some big names at me. Pedro Pascal. He's good. From The Mandalorian.

From The Mandalorian, yeah. Did Pedro Pascal show any evidence of knowing who you were? I don't think so. No. No. It'd be hard to tell under that mask. Well, he wasn't wearing the mask. Oh.

Yeah, you know... I thought he wasn't allowed to take it off. No, I know, I know. No, they changed his contract. That's a very in-j joke for fans of The Mandalorian. If you like Star Wars jokes, email me and I'll give you some more. Great. We're nearly there.

No, I'm not. Okay, fine. I'm enjoying this. We've got loads. But can I say something? I think I will say it anyway. What's striking about your journey is that you've achieved amazing success and done great work purely on your own efforts, right?

You're one of these people who's come up via YouTube, the Web 2.0, without having to be at the whims of commissioners or conventional television makers. You've carved your own furrow. Does that make sense? Yeah. You're a totally self-created, albeit with your team and people around you and support a self-created media brand and entity and actually when i've seen your outings on tv they've always been good but it never felt like it was as good not as good but it felt like you well you've already built your own ship you don't really need to do time on any other ship if that metaphor makes any sense i get what you mean minus minus the ship reference, but I agree. And I think that's something I'm also realising more and more now. I think when you're starting out,

if you're someone like me who grew up watching a lot of linear television, you're always going to have ambitions to maybe go into the more traditional worlds of media. That's why I've said yes to opportunities in that world. But you are right in that actually, I don't really need to be doing that because my audience I've already made for myself and they're on my channel or they're on the internet in the ways that I've created for myself. But I also would say that there is something to be said

about being seen in more traditional media because then you broaden yourself up to a bigger audience. Do you know the average age of viewers of BBC Two? The average age of viewers of BBC Two? Probably like over 60. It's like 67 or something. No I know what you mean. So the idea of broadening your audience yeah if you want to get a lot of older people nothing wrong with that I'm an older person myself but you don't really need it. Yeah I think that's something that I'm also realising now too. Actually, I've really found it difficult to be commissioned by linear places. It seems to be always a no or it's not quite right kind of thing.

And that's why essentially I'm really glad that I have my own YouTube channel to self-publish my formats. Like with my cooking show, for example, at one point I would have loved that to be actually on television, but there was no interest. So I just thought, hang on, I've got a whole huge audience of people that are actually already engaged in what I'm doing. Why don't I just make it myself?

Have they asked you to do Strictly? Maybe. They definitely have, haven't they? Are you doing it? No, I'm not doing it. What about Celebrity Bake Off? I would love to do Celebrity Bake Off. They definitely have, haven't they? Are you doing it? No, I'm not doing it. What about Celebrity Bake Off? I would love to do Celebrity Bake Off. They said no. They said no?

Yeah, they said no last year. They're supposed to ask you. You don't ask them. No, I asked them because I was like, I want to go on Celebrity Bake Off. And what did they say? They said no, but they said, I'm sure one day we'll be banging on the door.

Shame on them. And I said, yeah, you bloody will but i still maybe you don't want them i still do want to do celebrity break up what i really want to do is who do you think you are do you so if anyone's listening what would they find out well i don't really know that much i think you have jewish heritage yeah exactly my dad's jewish hence the de moldenberg and everyone always says to me where is de moldenberg it sounds dutch and we don't know we don't know i want to go on have you heard of google no there's not many good de moldenbergs there's like literally none it's like me my sister and my dad online if you go on facebook because there's no de moldenbergs weird yeah would you go

on it i think you should your mum's maiden name? Hardman. Hardman. There's loads of Hardmans. That's like a porn name. No, it's not. There literally is a porn star called Dave Hardman. Okay. Cool. I'm glad you've brought that up in connection to my mum. I think a long time ago I was asked if I wanted to do Who Do You Think You Are?

And I was probably in my phase of say no to everything. I've since come out of that phase yeah clearly you should you should definitely do it why i think it's a really cool one to do it can be cringe do you think that your family are you worried that your family's they slurring definitely not we may have native american ancestry possibly of the monomony tribe okay see that can be cool although the gene test to seem to disprove that but we think there may be a faulty lab oh yeah definitely faulty lab yeah genes there's no way i'm not part native american but yeah i think it is an interesting

conversation about like the online world versus the broadcast world and i would kind of like to do both i feel like that's when you've really like got a good thing going when you can do both. You know, Johnny Carson in America was doing the Tonight Show for, I don't know, 40 years or something. And David Letterman still doing his chat show. And just to put this out there, what would be wrong if 40 years from now, you were celebrating the 50th anniversary of chicken shop date i don't want to do that why because i don't want to be 60 years old dating 20 year old rappers you don't you're not actually dating them it's a it's a format it's real louis

i don't want to be doing chicken shop date forever i've got so many other ambitions which you haven't asked me about go on then what are your other ambitions well actually I don't know what is the dream scenario then oh actually I specifically didn't even want to talk about this and now I've brought it up go on about what are you going to do next have you got anything no no no I do I want to write scripts I'm writing a script basically sitcom more of like a comedy yeah dramedy like succession or white lotus not really like succession but i love succession more like something like skins now i've done some research and you said the same thing on a podcast interview in 2018 yeah i did that's like five years ago yeah how long does it take to write i believe so um i've been writing

it for a while i think it was on the jamie lang podcast oh yeah no but that's not the same idea which was the same podcast where he asked you at the end to say something inspirational oh my god what did i say and you couldn't think of anything that's quite my vibe yeah and it wasn't fake awkward it was properly awkward i could well what are you meant to say that's inspirational at the end of a podcast? Well, if you can ask me, I'll tell you something. Go on, say something inspirational then. You can do anything.

What you think is your weakness may be your superpower. That's my go-to if I'm asked for... You've said that before, I've seen that. Does everything you say something you've never said before? Yeah, actually, everything I say is an original Yeah. Does everything you say something you've never said before? Yeah, actually. That's a high bar. Everything I say is an original thought. You'd have to start using other languages.

No, the thing with writing is that it turns out that if you want to be a writer, you actually have to write, which is so boring. Especially if you've already said you can't read. No, I've been thinking about ideas for a long time, for years and years. But I essentially have another day job that I do and I find writing

really hard but I have just submitted the first draft of my script what's it called? I'm not telling you I'm not telling you why?

because it's a really good title I don't want you to steal it who's it for? now you've made me feel bad that I've not because I was thinking about this I'm like yeah I want to be a writer

but I don't but it's honestly because I've been really busy doing all this other stuff that you're interviewing me about I've not because I was thinking about this I'm like yeah I want to be a writer but I don't but it's honestly because I've been really busy doing all this other stuff you're interviewing me about I've been busy building my empire my media empire and trying to find my one true love but I'm really happy that I have finished the first draft and then I'm about to start development of another script for a film oh so now I feel like I'm making... What does that mean? I'm about to start development. Well, I've found... That's virtually meaningless. Shut up. So you're not developing it yet, but sometime in the future you'll start. This is why I don't even want to talk about it

because essentially what I'd love to... That's like I'm thinking of suing. I'd love to talk about it when I've actually got something to show for myself. But at the moment, it's on the back burner, you know, alongside all my other things and all my other commitments, like doing this bloody podcast. Endless podcast. Maybe I should stop saying yes to these podcasts. Well, just choose selectively. What does the future look like? What do you mean the future look like?

Media, media in general. What does the future look like? What do you mean the future look like? Of media, media in general. I think it's just on your phone. I did read this really interesting article yesterday in the New Statesman about the correlation between mood behaviour within girls, young girls, and using their phones. You're comparing your insides with someone else's outsides.

Yeah. That's what they say. I doubt myself. I lack confidence. I don't look right. And then you're looking at the most amazing photoshopped imagery. Yeah, unrealistic. Unrealistic.

And I felt like that really recently, actually, when I was in L.A. I was in a really bad way with my mind, actually. And I also think it's because I wasn't exercising. What, recently? Yeah, really bad, actually. About yourself? Yeah, about myself. Just loads of negative thoughts about myself.

And I think it's definitely because I was on my phone too much. And maybe I was alone in LA. And the pressure of my job feels, like, more intense. Does it? Yeah, like, the pressure to... From where, though? But that's all from you, isn't it? Yeah, it's from me.

You can't be cancelled. No, I'm not scared of being cancelled. The pressure to, like, do a good job, that's what I feel like. You know when you've had some amazing moments, like for example, the whole thing that happened with the Jiggle Jiggle, my Andrew Garfield interviews, so many great moments I've had. To me now it feels like a pressure to keep getting to that level. And I don't know, sometimes it can feel a bit much.

Of course. But then again, I think it'll be fine because I think it always works out it does work out and you've just got to keep in touch with what you enjoy about the whole experience and I think the minute it feels like you're measuring yourself against you know in terms of the work you take on you're aiming to get somewhere as opposed to taking on projects that keep you excited then you you lose yourself. Does that make sense? Yeah. Because then you're trying to chase something

and you lose touch with your creative urge. Yeah, and that's why I'm always trying to be doing different things and also just to make sure that I don't really do anything unless I believe in the creative behind it. Like I'm not going to just do something for the sake of it or for the money for that matter either. So in that sense, I'm always kind of enjoying what I'm not going to just do something for the sake of it or for the money for that matter either. So in that sense, I'm always kind of enjoying what I'm doing. You're listening to The Louis Theroux Podcast, only on Spotify.

Hi, me again, Louis Theroux. Just to remind you, you're listening to the Louis Theroux Podcast. And now back to my conversation with Amelia de Moldenberg. What were you in LA for? I met with loads of different production companies. I have a big audience now in America because of Chicken Shop Day and there's a big appetite there for me and I would love to spend more time in America.

You mentioned that the pressure that you put on yourself and that creating some anxiety. I've also read that you said that you've always been very ambitious. When you were very young, you wanted to be the editor of Vogue. Yeah, I I did and you were 10 when you wrote for news round online you wrote an article about the film classification system yeah thrilling where do you think your ambition and your drive comes from I've just always wanted to like impress people I can't tell you where exactly it's come

from but I guess maybe originally it's been to impress my parents. And maybe everything comes from that. And I've never been like that great at school. Like I was never the star student at school. I was always very like average. And I think that I always thought that I needed to excel in different areas if I wanted to make something of myself. That it wasn't going to be through like math, science or English.

It was going to be through doing something separate. Do you suffer from anxiety? Yeah, definitely. But I really do think that I have been getting better at it recently. And I also think that for a long time, I felt like I was climbing up trying to make something of myself or trying to show that I was talented or trying to make chicken shop date something.

And now I really feel like it is at a level that I'm really happy with and that a lot of my ambitions I've fulfilled so in that sense I do feel a lot more chilled I was gonna say you could fall under a bus tomorrow all right okay hopefully not exactly god forbid like we pray that it doesn't happen yeah but if you did you could be squashed flat by the bus. Your head could blow up like a watermelon. Okay, that's enough. And you would have a body of work that you'd leave behind. Yeah. That's a very reassuring thought to die with.

Yeah, that's what I will be thinking when my head is in too many places. And your dad would be in charge of cleaning it up. He would. That's awful. That's horrible. Yeah, that's horrible. But kind of cool no okay yeah and i'm really proud of all of that work especially with chicken shop day it's a really original format that isn't like anything else and i really feel like it's one of a kind i'm really

proud of it any inspirational words of advice no that now I'm worried about my lack of being able to give inspiration because you said that time when I was in the podcast, I couldn't think of any inspiration. You say the one about take your disability and make it your superpower. I don't like saying inspirational things because I find them so cliche and cringe. And also I think it's so different. Or maybe you've got nothing to say. No, I also think that everyone is so different.

So one person's word of inspiration. Use my line about your disability might be your superpower. Your disability? What you think it's, sorry, weakness. Weakness. But what does that mean? It means that if you're slightly awkward and you find social situations unintentionally cringe,

then do a whole format about that. Or if you can't cook, do a format about not being able to cook i have been doing i actually have been using your advice actually throughout my whole career to use to use my weakness or you could say that the media landscapes change so much you off the back we haven't said this off the back of a magazine like a community magazine based out of where was it royal oak royal oak northwest london where you were 17 you were 70 but what were you doing what were you doing there we made a magazine we could write about whatever we wanted there was paid for by the council yeah and the prince's trust and the prince's trust and actually i would love to start something like that again i think that would be

so the magazine yeah it's like it was such an incredible place where so many young people were able to basically create their own portfolio of work and to like start something of their own separate to their studies at school that maybe they weren't enjoying or weren't excelling at for whatever reason. And actually, like it really paved the way for so many people to actually get a start in their careers. actually get a start in their careers and I think that bringing back to the previous conversation we were saying about access and privilege like stuff like that like community-based magazines where young people can come and actually create work for themselves and build their own brand for example is a way to level the playing field that's my word of inspiration that's your inspiration my inspiration is is actually there should be more funding for young people more youth services because i really feel like that is the way to make a difference open the youth centers are they not open anymore since 2010 youth services have been cut drastically so much so like the youth center that i was at doesn't exist anymore so many of

them since 2010 that's why there's so many other issues within communities and societies is because I always always think everything comes back down to supporting young people there we go so I hope you enjoyed that conversation. It was a pleasure speaking to Amelia and chewing the chicken, if I can put it that way, and learning about how much of her work has been created painstakingly over the years. I mean, I think I already knew that, but just to see it up close,

the sense of her creating her own destiny out there with her team, outside of the normal citadels of culture, and is probably a bellwether for how things are going to change and continue to change. I owe her, I think I said this, but I'll say it again, I owe her an enormous debt of gratitude for bringing me to the attention of her audience, and specifically Jiggle Jiggle,

which has not hundreds of millions, but I think billions of streams and views. That's no exaggeration and in a certain way changing my life for many people maybe even until the day I croak I'll be mainly known you know if I am known as the jiggle jiggle guy and I think I'm fine with that it definitely beats being known as the guy who failed to get to the truth about Jimmy Savile Amelia did actually send me a question as to, you know, what would you have asked if you'd had a chance to ask me a question?

Oh yes, here we go. Do you find the podcast format lends itself to a more revealing interview? And can you get more from someone over two hours in a recording studio than following them around with a camera for weeks? Kind of, yes. I used to say when I made documentaries that the truth comes out in the car meaning you can be on location and not be getting very much but if you do a long car journey with a contributor with this person you're interviewing just the proximity and the sort of the sense that there's nothing else to distract you meant that you would be able to explore the deepest questions and the most interesting, most intimate kind of content. And that's sort of what a podcast is, really.

It's a static car journey. You can follow someone for many days and not get a whole lot of anything because you're always in motion. You know, you're not actually getting to answer the questions that you're really interested in. Well, that was the answer. This podcast was produced by Paulul kobrak and man al

yazari the production manager was francesca bassett and the executive producer is aaron fellows the music in this series is by miguel de olivera this is a Mindhouse production exclusively for Spotify. Louis, can we do a picture? Yeah. Can I do a TikTok with you? Yeah. But it's not a dance, don't worry about it.