The Louis Theroux Podcast - S2 EP3: PinkPantheress discusses stage fright, being ‘outed’ by the tabloids, and her icks

Episode Date: February 6, 2024

Louis is joined in the Spotify studio by pop sensation, PinkPantheress. Pink explains why social media makes her anxious, being ‘outed’ by the tabloids and losing her hearing in one ear. Plus, Louis gets a lesson in ‘icks’.  Warnings: Strong language and adult themes.  Links/Attachments: ‘Pain’  https://open.spotify.com/track/4S4QJfBGGrC8jRIjJHf1Ka  ‘Just for me’ https://open.spotify.com/track/6OTKVgVpVaVjhRLYizPJKA  ‘Break it off’ https://open.spotify.com/track/0DwVfCYLrVXgvejYbWwZAd?si=cc359d5303314474  Central Cee - ‘Obsessed With You’  https://open.spotify.com/track/4PYfFHKfjYz6dwAtZhBy1z  ‘Boy’s a Liar Pt. 2’ https://open.spotify.com/track/5CCr8msaN3MhgqBoa9yWhH?si=6bf92ae43ada45f8  Credits: Producer: Millie Chu  Assistant Producer: Maan Al-Yasiri  Production Manager: Francesca Bassett  Music: Miguel D’Oliveira  Executive Producer: Arron Fellows     A Mindhouse Production for Spotify  www.mindhouse.co.uk  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, Louis Theroux here. Welcome to my Spotify podcast called the Adam Buxton podcast. Not funny. The Louis Theroux podcast, fine. In this episode, I am going to be speaking to a pop singer, a musical artist, who goes by Pink Pantheress, who has another name, the one she was given at birth, which I'm not going to reveal, because that's part of her mystique. She is 22 years old, not just a singer as such, but also a viral hit maker. And if you're at all online, even if you don't know who she is, you've probably heard her songs. And I hope that becomes clear in the conversation because her singing style is very distinctive. Copyright issues prevent me from singing part of her song now. Poesalia. Can I say that? That's fine. That was too much. Anyway, she shot to fame

in less than a year around the time of COVID and lockdown, writing these tiny little songs, these fragments that seemed almost perfectly designed for TikTok in the short attention span. In addition though, there's anxiety-based lyrics, there's a depth to the emotional vibe of the songs and so she's very much tapped into the generational mood with her lyrics and voice and samples. Some statistics as of 20th of October 2023. On Spotify alone, 2.3 billion streams. That's 55 million streams per track. Sometimes I think when you give Spotify or streaming data, it just sounds like billions and billions, billions and billions. Anyway, it's a lot. By any metric, you know, they are extraordinarily big numbles. Numbles, which is a tech term that we use in the tech industry. A numble, it's a lot like a number, but it's not exactly the same. I haven't looked at my numbles. I'm afraid to.

She's previously been very private, which is part of what makes this interview pretty special. It was recorded in person in London, in the Spotify HQ. She arrived with her signature handbag under her arm. And the first few minutes you can feel the atmosphere is a little bit awkward. There was a faintly tense, tenses maybe overstated, but definitely there wasn't much eye contact. And I was thinking, well, this might be, this might be a difficult interview, which I love. And then it all kind of just got going and felt like a terrific kind of free-flowing conversation. But maybe I'm spoiling the journey if I tell you too much. Warnings, strong language, adult themes, and a high-pitched chipmunk-like voice. That's mine,

not Pink's. All that and much, much more coming up. Hello. Oh, nice to meet you. How do you do? Nice to meet you. How's it going? Real good, thanks. Take a seat.

Oh, okay. Okay. Sorry about the delay. Arnold Schwarzenegger was in here. Yeah, I heard. On another podcast. Yep. Thought it was this one.

Wasn't mine. Next time. Another time. How are you doing? Good, how are you i'm fine is your name lewis um some people say lewis i go by louis okay the french spelling yeah and the french pronunciation okay i appreciate you coming by i think you've been quite busy haven't you um well i've just announced my album so i'm just uh doing stuff for that yeah you've just announced your album do you want to come in guys louis can you just talk closer into the mic closer

to the mic guys you should just you know what if you just if you want to say anything pop in because i'm not going to look at my phone and the whatsapps i don't think they're like oh if you need anything we'll pop it on a whatsapp yeah no it's just i want to stay still irl i want to just stay in the room yeah i get that i think you're a bit like me you're not you don't like to be over attached to the phone no not really no i just in my bag you try and stay in real life real life yes i do what's your attitude to social media generally um it's a necessity for me but if i had it my way i wouldn't be on it at all necessarily no i would be on it like maybe i'm only on it as much as i really want to sometimes for this period because of the album i've had to go on it a bit more yeah and it does scare me like i'm not going to lie

like i can't i have to get someone else to post my stuff why i just have bad anxiety of surrounding posting stuff because of what you might come back no uh just because I just don't know what I genuinely don't know I just have an issue pressing the button that says post really which is ironic in a way because you blew up on TikTok yes and that's practically all about posting yeah see that for me was like, you're going to laugh, but that was survival instincts. That was like, I need to make a career out of music. So I did what I had to do. I still do it.

I just have to get someone else to post the video these days. That's the difference. Do you get anxiety generally? Surrounding very specific and niche things. Do you? Yes. Okay. You just turned the tables on me i wasn't expecting that oh no i just i just wondered this because i just um i feel like when you ask people that question they always say yes but when i ask them about what they kind of don't know what

to say i'm not gonna ask you about what feel free okay about what then just probably the most typical things which is sometimes social engagements like yeah i have that thing like if you're going to a party you're invited to a party and before going you know you're going to go yeah but you just a little part of you's thinking i really don't want to go because you don't know how the night's going to go i don't know even if it's even that rational i think it's just some sense of being required to summon some sort of resources of whether it's conversation, self-presentation. And then you go and it usually goes fine. But I sort of sometimes drink my way through it. But do people expect you to be a good talker because of your job?

I would say they probably do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, people expect me to be. And do you think you are a good talker? I think I can be, but I think that people are either happily surprised or they're a bit like, oh, she's a bit weird. Do you think so?

What makes you think they think that? I don't know. Because I'll talk to someone and I'll think I sound very normal and everything and then people will tell me afterwards that I seemed uncomfortable or awkward. But don't really recognize at the time you don't feel awkward well I don't really because I'm not because this is just how I when it comes to new people this is just how I talk or act but some people just think I'm uncomfortable but I actually don't know but this is how it's been from since school time so so we started by saying I was saying talk how well actually before that was gonna say you're how

busy are you you said you got your album uh heaven knows yes about to drop yep which is technically your first album but actually you released a mixtape called to hell with it in 20 which was sort of like an album i mean i don't know why they didn't call it an album well i chose to call it a mixtape because an album was actually quite a full name. Right. Yeah. Well, I just thought to myself, it was an 18-minute long mixtape.

Yeah, with 10 tracks. 10 tracks. So I just thought, no, there's no way this can be an album. It's so short. Which is fair enough. Yeah. How long is the album? I actually don't know.

I think it's about half an hour. Yeah, I think it's half an hour, actually. I was going to say that too. I think it's half an hour actually i was going to say that too i think it's half an hour and you're going on tour in february yeah and you're coming off three years of meteoric yeah ascent well yeah right would you agree with that i don't know about meteoric well how would you call it well i don't know i think when i see someone do have a meteoric ascent it's way more obvious that it's a meteoric ascent. I think mine has been another sort of ascent. Maybe like a very good hiker ascent. Right. Not meteoric. I wanted it to be at this pace instead of…

Maybe like a rambler climbing a Munro in Scotland. Yes. at this pace instead of like maybe like a rambler climbing a monroe in scotland yes and steadily staking up the road you know hiking up the terrain and i think that's maybe a more apt metaphor because it describes the effort involved which i'm sure has been considerable that being said though it's been a steady and sort of positive relentless i don't say relentless it sounds a bit weird but it's been a steady forward focused ascent and it started in 2020. Well, late 2020, wasn't it? Isn't that when the one that the Michael Jackson sample one came out? You're good researchers. Yeah, I was. Researchers? What are you talking about? I researched that, I think. You think I didn't

do any research? No, I think you're equally as busy as I am, so I don't know. But either way, if it was you or your team, I'm really amazed that you know that. It was, it was on Christmas Day. Christmas Day, that's what my researcher told me. Great. I did, I've done research. Come clean.

But was never actually released because the Michael Jackson estate didn't clear the sample? And that's why I can't mention any more. Wow, that got tense fast that's where I can't mention any more and I'm glad you said that not me I can't I can't mention them it's fine we can just ramble on I love a pregnant pause. Yes. But then you had two tracks that went mega viral. Yes. Pain and... Break It Off. Break It Off.

That's not the one I was thinking of. What's the stalkerish one? Just For Me. Just For Me. Was Break It Off more viral then? I actually, I'm going to have to make a stab and guess that Just For Me went more viral, but it is not as revered as Break It Off.

Right. Yes, that's my guess. I don't know anything about numbers. And I don't like being told. So if you know anything, then don't tell me. About your numbers? No, don't tell me. Don't tell me.

Don't tell me, please. I'm not going to tell you, but I know everything about your numbers. Yeah, but I can't. No, but I can't. No. Don't tell me, please. I'm not going to tell you, but I know everything about your numbers. Yeah, but I can't. No, don't. Because that is where I've realized every person I know, as soon as they find out every bit of metadata about anything they have, that's when it becomes obsessive. You are concerned that you would become obsessive about the numbers?

Well, yeah, I think just anyone. Okay, so it's like knowing how much is in your bank account and then being nervous about spending. It's like, you know what I mean? It's like, I remember when I first started off as a musician, I was obsessed with every, I was like every bit of metadata I could know I needed to know. And then I got obsessive over it. And so I'm just, because I know my habits, I just know that if I know now, it will be the same thing. What do you mean by metadata? So stuff like how many followers do I have or how many people are looking at my posts.

So that's what really freaks me out, how many people are able to look at my posts. On which platform? Any platform. And so, for example, if a video of me goes viral in any sort of way, I freak out because I'm like, oh, and I need to know what everyone's saying and stuff because I'm just obsessed over it.

So that's why I stay off of online. Really? Yes. That's the sound of Pink's nails coming together. In case you were wondering. It is a strange thing that in this day and age you can have a metric of success, in inverted commas, that's scientific and calibrated down to the absolute

tiniest figure right yeah and actually what do you do with that because you didn't create the music thinking well maybe you did but you want some sort of success but you didn't create it knowing that information you know and you created it out of an instinct for what would connect with people right yeah well I was I mean obviously I'm only making music because I actually just enjoy making it and I think it's because I enjoy making it and it's also because I actually just enjoy experimenting and seeing what people will like just like I like making music that I feel like people have to think about like the Stalkerish song song, it's like I wrote it, but I was like, will people catch on to what I'm actually singing about? Or will the song go viral and people think that the song's like a cute song

when actually it's not, you know? Yeah, that's the one that was sampled by Central Sea. Yes, exactly. So this thing about making people think, there was a quote that I liked, which was from an article in the New York Times, where they said, the key juxtaposition in her music is how the lightly detached sweetness in her tone masks the sweaty anxiety of her words. Sweaty. Oh, sweaty. Yeah, sure.

Does that resonate with you? Anxiety in my words. Well, funnily enough, we started by talking about anxiety. Okay, sure. And there's darkness in the lyrics. The lyrics are often about anxiety to do with, is someone going to call? Do I look good enough for you?

Are you thinking about me? It's all in a monologue, but sung in quite a sing-song girly voice. I'm sure lots of adjectives have been used to describe your very distinctive vocal timbre. Is there an adjective you prefer um chipmunk version i mean i don't know i think it depends um sometimes when i listen to it actually and i'm not trying to be self-deprecating i don't want that to become my brand because i am so confident in many ways but sometimes when i listen to it

there's quite an annoying twang to it now because it is so high and because my hearing isn't as good as it used to be, I feel like now it hits certain frequencies which I don't really like anymore. But I still love my voice. I think it's nice and unique. Angelic and slinky. Maybe. Did you come up with that? That was when you came top of the Sound of 2022 BBC poll. It described your voice as... Angelic and slinky. Angelic and slinky angelic and slinky yeah

who wouldn't want to be told that it's nice um you mentioned your hearing going yes you've lost 80 of the hearing in one of your ears in your right ear how come because um of the microphone going too near to a speaker really and it causes a horrible like the feedback feedback yeah and it was so loud it literally it so no damage your hearing decreased yeah so at first it was just a really annoying ringing and I thought it was going to be fine but it happened on the day and ever since that day even on the day it happened I was trying to find I got like some weird ear drops and I thought that was going to help I thought it was going to be fine in the coming weeks I just kept going down to the point now where it's weird because I can't hear a lot of like high stuff I can't really but like I can make out people it just

sounds like bass it sounds like if somebody took your voice and removed all the high end and it was just bass just in that ear bassy yeah left is normal oh yeah wow that's that's quite a lot to deal with no no it's not really it's fine i can tell i still have bass so um i think you're gonna say no to this but i'm gonna say it anyway there's some people who you know have a broad cross-section of listenership young and old and in between but i imagine there might be a few of the older ones who either don't know your music or know it but don't know that they know it yes so can you sing a little bit of one of your songs we can no you don't know do you

know how they go of course you could sing one of the newer ones i'm glad you said that well only if you know something i can always teach you too i don't like putting people on the spot and i just know i've done that asking you to join me you wouldn't come to be comfortable singing on your own i think that people would rather hear from you yeah but i would actually rather i actually have never heard you sing do you sing is there an effect on your voice on your recordings? Yes, there is. But I can sing. You can reproduce it. I can sing it, like, pretty to the, to the, oh God, I'm sick. Take a look inside your heart, is there any room for me?

Are we doing a duet? Then it's over to you. Oh my God. I won't have to hold my breath till you get down on one. Knee, knee. Because. You only want to hold me when I'm looking at falsetto. Because what's the point of crying? It was never even love. Oh, jeez. Did you ever want me? I'm better at falsetto.

Did you ever want me? Was I ever good enough? Ding, ding, ding. The boys are. You've got to do that bit. Liar. You've got to say Leah. Well, you know I'm saying liar.

I know, but don't you? Liar. I sing it as. You don't sing it as Leah You should do the rap Can you do the rap please Is it on there I only know I haven't learned the rap

I like how she goes She does this funny thing Do you know what that means You know what someone's da da da is Can you do the rap He say that I'm good enough Grabbing my da dada-da, thinking about things that I shouldn't have. That's a great rhyme, da-da-da and shouldn't have. But you don't know what a da-da-da is?

It's either her bum or her front bum. Yeah, okay. What is it? I'll leave that to you. No, come on. No, it's her derriere, yes. As you would say in French. Derriere.

Yes. Do you speak French? I'm doing it would say in French. Derrière. Yes. Do you speak French? I'm doing it on Duolingo. Let's stay focused. I think if I wanted to zoom out for a second, because we started by talking about TikTok and a little bit about anxiety. So what happened was,

you started out posting stuff on SoundCloud, then on TikTok. You then translated that into kind of global chart success and you're in the midst of i suppose kind of a transitionary period where you're sort of coming out of the bedroom figuratively and kind of taking the main stage yes yeah i guess as every artist has to do yeah but in your case it's a little different because a lot of artists would come up through either talent shows or X Factor or doing local, you know, doing the Mickey Mouse Club on Disney.

But basically forms of supplying their trade in a way that involves getting up in front of the public a lot in a real-world setting, which you haven't done quite so much no not really so I guess the question is how are you finding that transition yeah so I've been performing since 2021 when I had my first live shows but yeah it's true and I think there's a large conversation at the moment especially around artists going from the bedroom and to the stage and some artists not being ready and some artists not being developed enough and I definitely understand the argument especially as someone who in the UK we are so known for stuff like the Brit school and you know

having artists rise up through performing in pubs and you know we have Adele we have Amy Winehouse we have everyone Georgehouse we have everyone Georgia Smith we've got these great singers and it's very talent based over here I feel like over in America there's more likelihood of like virality because of just how big the place is and so basically when it comes to someone like me I felt a lot of pressure being from here and realizing okay cool my talent isn't necessarily in singing or performing. I'm not like, quote unquote, the strongest thing. I don't have these powerhouse vocals at all. As a performer, I've never been drawn to like the spotlight.

I'm not really too interested in going on stage. You actually made like an ick face when you said performer. Well, yeah, because I just feel like even watching clips sometimes of myself, I'm like, oh God, you know, I feel like I'm getting getting better and I do want to get better because I do get inspired a lot by seeing other performers and thinking god they look amazing I don't want to dance but I definitely want to be like I definitely want to be able to go up and show people a good time for me as an artist I feel like I've had to deal with people knowing I'm not good at performing I've had to deal with people telling me how I could do better taking those comments and learning from them and if you suddenly started

having the job that you love my favorite part of my job is writing and pushing music and experimenting with music that's my favorite part my favorite part isn't performing and somebody's telling you okay you can't only like your favorite sector which is writing you also have to do stuff you hate which is being in front of cameras being recorded telling people information about yourself and performing I can't pick and choose I mean I can pick and I could have said oh I'm not doing live performances ever but then I wouldn't have grown this big like I've had to do stuff which I haven't I didn't want to do and I've had to basically just take it my stride I didn't want to be photographed ever

I had no I wanted to be anonymous for my whole career but then I realized I could only get so big if I do that so I yeah I broke free from those shackles and I'm better for it but you know scary well you started out as you say anonymous and in fact for a while there was this mystique around who you were and you didn't reveal your real name no and you didn't do interviews i think what was the sort of that the level of revelation as it went on like first of all you released a picture of yourself did you oh yeah a selfie because prior to that people weren't sure what race you were that's funny no they didn't they thought i was they thought i was white i think people thought you were white and so was that weird or not

of course it was because my first song the song we the one we can't speak about because it's based on an unauthorized Michael Jackson sample I say the n-word I say on the song I say the n-word so people were dming me thinking I was white and they were going oh my god you are disgusting you said the M word how dare you you know you're not black and I was like wait but because I was like half like do I tell them do I have to prove that I am but then I was just like I am black and then once people found out what I look like they were like oh my god that's crazy I think people are still shocked to this day I think people are still when they find out that oh my god but that's what I mean about the whole powerhouse folk I feel like people just aren't used to hearing a black

person sound or have voice like mine or yeah so people thought you were white then you released a picture then gradually well in fact you were outed in a way weren't you by the daily mail yeah on sunday if you want to be exact yeah but i don't who reads that you know but honestly only millions of people i don't know anything about newspaper politics or like what a newspaper is more left or i had no idea what that you know so i used to read the daily mail because my mum used to read the daily mail my family's a right wing paper yeah well yeah i know that now but as a 16 year old i thought it was just where I got my information and it was only until I read the comments back in the day where I realized oh blimey like these people are they're psychos flipping heck yeah flipping hell flipping hell

yeah yeah and then I read the comments because that's a self-selecting like you've got to be you don't I don't think you have to be right wingwing and racist to read the Mail on Sunday. No. But if you're so involved that you can write comments. Yeah, well, writing comments is... You're in the inner circle. Yeah, you're... You're a full-on Gucci gang.

There's no saving you once you are starting to type in the comment section. That's what I realised. And so I realised the people in these comments... And then basically, cool, yes, I got outed. And outed and then I was like okay well what could they have said and it was because I think you'd won the BBC sound of music 2022 yes so yeah that's why it was on there and I reached that level of fame and accomplishment where a mainstream tabloid took notice and said let's unmask um they unmask everyone. They did an article unmasking Banksy, I believe. They would unmask Father Christmas himself if they

thought it would sell papers. And the comments would still be about his weight or something like that. This foreigner coming over here, dropping his presents down the chimney. Yeah, leaving his trash around. What's his agenda? What's his agenda? Go back to lapland yeah you know so yeah i remember actually like having a call with the journalist right and i think they called you up

how did they get your number no they put their number in the email because they sent it they sent an email to my dad asking for a photo of me and my dad was like and i i pwned the woman who the journalist and i was just like i was just like, I was just like, why? And the thing about my name isn't anything. I've always said this. It's not because I'm like, I don't want people. It's just because I genuinely feel that the name is so precious to each individual. Do you know what I mean?

Do you still prefer your name not being put out there? Well, yes, but it's because your name is so, for me anyway, it's such an important part of who you are. But yeah, so I didn't want my name to be put out there. And it was weird because even though they knew nothing about me, everyone was being mean to me in a common sense. Were they? What were they saying? They just said I was no, actually one of them did say I was no Amy Winehouse because they posted my song and they were like, oh, she's not quite Amy. They were just saying my voice was annoying and high and that they didn't get the music and they thought I was crap. And they said that, I think one of them even said I looked bad, like over my face. And I think some of my fan pages came to my defence and they started

calling everyone losers, you're idiots, you're mean. But the article itself, this is when I realised, this is when I realised about the right wing agenda. They mentioned my race almost instantly. And on top of that, they also mentioned... In the article? Yes. And they also mentioned something about the price of my house in Canterbury, where I'm from, which was wrong.

But it was just so bizarre. I just was like, God, this is me. £500,000, they said. No, but that's not even true. They said £500,000 townhouse in Canterbury. Townhouse! You should see it! I. They said £500,000 townhouse in Canterbury. Townhouse, you should see it. I did think... £500,000.

I did reading, I was like, £500,000 in Canterbury? Canterbury, that's a mansion. That probably buys a lot. Yeah, no, no, no chance, no chance. So that annoyed me because I was like, the information is just factually wrong. I wrote down the headline because the headline was funny. It was like unmasked and I was like,

I'm based off of the internet. i unmasked exclamation mark new 20 year old tiktok pop sensation called pink pantheress is the quote posh daughter of a statistics professor and a civil servant factually wrong but either way my point was like well what i don't understand what they were trying to like prove that went to selective and high achieving barren court grammar school um but what what does that like 500 000 pound townhouse in canterbury but you know it tells you a lot about the mail on sunday which is that they are obsessed with people being privately educated okay posh yeah having expensive houses i guess guess my question is, you know, given that you'd spent the previous year avoiding excessive exposure and deliberately maintaining a level of mystique, how did that feel? The sort of the being, quote unquote, unmasked?

Well, listen, I didn't care because at the end of the day I see I see culture in two different forms I believe there is household name fame and there is internet fame and I the reason why I was so I laughed at that was because I believe I hail from the internet and therefore I don't expect people who read that tabloid or really people that, are walking outside down the street. It's the same, those are the same people that will listen to rap of today and think that it's not an art form because they're just mumbling into it.

Like, these are the same people that don't view, like, rap as a real genre of music, you know? And this is another thing about hailing from the internet and why I believe, you know, Gen Z are, like, I just think we're open to more things that we haven't seen before people haven't heard a girl with a chipmunk voice sing about anxiety so that's what I provide and I feel like people over here don't really want to see it that's why they comment stuff and that's

why there's articles and I can't stress enough with false facts which are emphasizing things like the fact that I'm biracial or emphasizing the fact that i have any type of identity which isn't straight british it's yeah that's my thing that's all i'm gonna say there's two forms of culture internet-based non-internet-based i hail from this side so there's no point for people that aren't internet-based getting involved that's how i actually feel that was very well expressed what do you mean when you say you hail from the internet? I hail from internet. I hail from the internet.

I hail from the internet. You're just saying it. Well, you said it earlier. I am. Well, you said it earlier. You said, you know, I haven't done these pub appearances, these live shows. I haven't done these talent shows.

I haven't been on national television. To discover me, you technically, unless you're hearing word of mouth have had to be online and that's kind of still true no not as much actually because I'm branching out I'm happy to branch out I want to cover more spaces than just online but initially back then it was very much online hence why they said TikTok sensation by the way TikTok sensation it's interesting to reflect. You started on SoundCloud, but then TikTok was your... Yeah, I was completely...

Completely TikTok. Yeah, because I didn't have a label backing, or I didn't know anyone to do with anyone in music. So the only thing I had to do was... I just had to find a way. TikTok I knew was the way people were getting their music seen. And I saw people do it. I was like, okay, it's cool.

Is it true that you almost tactically and strategically yeah it's tactically game to the algorithm I don't think I gained the algorithm I think I just paid notice to what worked how did you do that same way if you if one were to go hunting and they wanted to catch a deer and they would check the parameters of how they should catch a deer, I essentially did that with what time should I post. You've gone with a hunting metaphor. I didn't know what to go for. Was that unexpected? Yeah, I didn't really know what to go for.

Lost the vegans. No, I would never personally hunt deer. I'm just playing Red Dead Redemption 2, so I've been doing it a lot in the game. Never in real life. What I read was that you followed a thousand different accounts an hour per hour. Yeah, on SoundCloud. On SoundCloud?

Yeah. When I told you I was determined, I was like, no, I'm going to make this work. So my thing was, do you remember on Instagram back in the day? Oh, I don't know if you will. Follow for follow. Shout out, shout out. Do you know what that is? I think I can figure it out. Follow for follow. Follow for follow. Speaks for itself. And you know what that is uh i think i can figure it out

follow for follow follow for follow speaks for itself and you'd message or you'd comment so i was a teenager doing this i was not an adult i'm just gonna let that be known i was a teenager so i was like 17 and i would just be so bored at home i did have a great social life not you know let me make that clear too but i did choose to leave events early just to go home and like spend hours on SoundCloud because people blew up on SoundCloud and I just I was like I want to blow up too like I want to get my music heard so I would actually just follow for follow so basically you started getting followers that way but then on TikTok how do you sort of figure out what's going to work on TikTok?

So the voice that I sing with, I've been using since before. I've been singing with my, this is, I mean, this is my singing voice. But I just felt like, I don't know, I feel like I just posted it and then people liked it. And then I was reading comments and I was trying to figure out, oh, what is it about this that people like so much? Because I thought it was good music. I didn't think it was going to be, I didn't think people are going to like it that much. So I was very intrigued as to what it was because people said well I've never heard this before people were even commenting things like what genre is this and I was like okay so it must

mean that they want more of this type of stuff and you know what music and I'm sure you know this music is more than just music making music is business I've always noticed that the best musicians and musicians that have done the best, someone like, for example, Drake, are people that pick up on what is trending or what could trend and they pick up on it early so that they can be the ones people are listening to. I wanted to be ahead of the curve because it is business like it is. Do you like Drake? I love him. I hear a little bit of Drake in you.

Yes. Well, yeah, I honestly have been listening to Drake for the long... In the new album, some of the melody lines oh my god that's amazing that you say that because sometimes when I write a song I'm like like what would Drake do because I love his melodies he doesn't do like classical melody styles he's got his own very much his own very distinctive sometimes I'm going to say this and might annoy sometimes they're barely melodies like he's just sort of doing a Drake thing that only he can do maybe yeah

do you know what I mean? that's part of the charm of it all like so he works in is that a melody? yeah but it is do you know which one I was doing?

yeah yeah yeah I need a one Is that a melody? Yeah, but it is. Do you know which one I was doing? Yeah. On the way, don't knock me, you know that I... Yeah. Yeah. It's so... I need a one. Because he sings in, what do you call them? In...

Octaves? I was going to say octaves, but it's not. They're not octaves, they're fifths, aren't they? And I did not Drake influence, I do that too. And I notice... I hear that in you. Right. And he does it too.

His melodies are so good to me. I always thought to myself, what is it about his melodies I like? And I realized it's because of those jumps that he does in his melodies. And yeah. Hi! Too loud. Hi, I'm Louis Theroux,

and you're listening to the Louis Theroux Podcast. And now back to my conversation with Pink Pantheress. Would you have been doing all of this without the pandemic? Because it was December 2020 when that first track launched. It was absolutely in the middle of that pandemic pandemic, lockdown, whatever lockdown that was, it was the worst. It was that Christmas where Christmas was cancelled. And then January, February, all the deaths were surging and your music was coming out. You were saying that you feel like there's this expectation that now you're going to translate that online internet success

into something less virtual well yeah it sounded as though you were like people say you know oh now you've got to do shows and now you've got to and and that's not really in your comfort zone and maybe not even certainly didn't used to be part of your ambition yeah who's telling you that who's saying that you should be doing those things um i'd say it was um me myself and i it's not anyone from the label anyone from well i feel like people do encourage i honestly you know what it is i try to do things very off kilter but sometimes i do play by the book and the book says we should care about charts we should care about these uh accolades and when people tell me the importance of the book I go okay fair enough like I do actually care like the BBC sound of 2022 I was like okay I do really care about this when

beforehand I might have been like I don't really care but now I'm like I do I really care about this kind of stuff so live performance is one of those things where I see other people do it my inspirations my influences and I go yeah I do want to be as impressive as they are who are you thinking of specifically so many people I mean Hayley Williams oh exactly exactly perfect person I saw her on stage and that was when I was like oh god like she looks like a like a boss lead singer of Paramore and also a solo artist yes she is because I was preparing for this interview and I knew how important Hayley Williams was to you. I'm worried.

I looked up some Hayley Williams and Paramore. Oh, good. Thank God. I thought you were going to bring her out. No, because I thought I should, you know, I was like, I know the name, but my question is, what was it about her and her music? I just think that every black person loves Hayley Williams, really.

And that's really, yeah, I do. I think everyone does. I think that she has a very great soulful voice and when you combine it similar to how they're talking about my voice and the slinky angelic voice with these fun beats she's got this amazing soulful big voice for these rock songs it was like a paradox because you would expect her voice to be something like gospel and then once you combine it with the rock, you're just like, oh my God, this is perfect. And she is perfect. Her hair's perfect. She's perfect. How many live shows have you done now? Because this is nearly three years into your success. Yes, I'd say...

Coming up on the three-year anniversary. I know. God. And how many live shows have you done? About maybe 50. 50, more than 50. Maybe 50. Quite a lot then. I don't know. I'd have to ask my manager and she's out there.

That's quite a lot. 50, more than. Are you getting more comfortable with it? You've spoken about having stage fright. I have stage fright and that's why... You know what's funny? I used to get worse stage fright. So it's got better.

It is way better now. I'll be honest with you. It's way better. My stage fright's fine. But it interests me that somebody gave me a David Bowie quote. Have you met David Bowie? No. Okay.

But I know who he is. Well, somebody told me that he said, when you stop being nervous before you perform live, what did he say? When you stop being nervous. When you stop. That would be a good quote. Yeah, I know. When you stop being nervous before you perform live. It's time to stop.

Yeah, that's it. That because he's but essentially the whole point was like he gets nervous yeah i think that's i think stage fright like some degree of anxiety before you go on stage is normal it's the norm yes it's not universal i've met people who who don't get it but it's rare okay cool so but my thing is it used to be so bad that i would like actually vomit no for me it used to be like bad that I would like actually... Vomit? No. For me, it used to be like I would... I still do.

I plan an escape plan for each show I do. So I have a line which I'm going to... I say to my whole band, my DJ, I say, okay, if I say this today, that means I'm going off. So you need to fill in the gap when I'm off stage. Because when you're in front of that many people, I have this horrible thing in my head telling me

at some point I'm going to get overwhelmed with how many people there are and I'm going to have a panic attack. By the way, I'm going to have a panic attack by the way I've never I've only ever had a panic attack twice on stage no life from smoking weed right that's pretty normal yeah no it is normal and I've never had it any other time but my fear is I'm going to be on stage and suddenly I'm going to get dizzy and I'm going to have a bad thing and people are going to film it and be like oh god what's wrong with that you know I mean there's a lot of shows of mine which are filmed and taken out of context too I don't even hesitate to bring this up because it

might be annoying but um you did a show at South by Southwest and I read a review of it that was pretty brutal did you see that yeah well yeah well that's that painful okay so my thing is Louis and this is why I say performing live for me can be a struggle. I'm a vibes person. I feed off of the crowd. And I remember that day I walked out on stage. There was something about the crowd, which when I walked out, I was like, oh, God, like this is pretty daunting. And I get because South by Southwest is a showcase, so you're actually meant to be there.

They don't necessarily need to know who you are type business. a showcase or you're actually meant to be there they don't necessarily need to know who you are type business but i remember there was some people towards the back who when i say they were frowning or just looking like this that it's no exaggeration sometimes people are just doing this no movement nothing and you have to understand we're from the uk doing it and for people in radio land oh so i'm making an expression blank, sort of inscrutable expression. And I'm holding up my phone like this, which is no, again, no issue. And one has to expect it. And one, and this is the thing, this is why I have to sit here and I do have to slap myself in the wrist because I realize a true performer has to withstand these things and realize they

have to do anything regardless of who's watching you. But my head, because I'm human, I do struggle being able to feed off a crowd which I believe don't know me or don't care to know me, which that's my own fault. But on that particular day, I struggled with it so much. And I remember thinking to myself, okay, I'm going to give them the best I can do right now. And I remember the best I could do. I had my bag and people don't get the bag on stage. Fine, I get it. I was actually moving a lot. I was doing a lot of walking. I actually was walking a lot. I remember that.

I remember feeling like I was giving them a very intimate... You had your bag on stage. Well, I always do. Why? I don't know. I just like having it. It just completes the outfit. Multiple reasons.

Anyway, I remember thinking, I was giving them a lot. I remember thinking, I'm smiling, I'm singing. I remember there was an issue with the sound and where the sound was way louder in the thing so it sounded like or looked like I was lip syncing. But I remember there was an issue with the sound and where the sound was way louder in the thing so it sounded like or looked like I was lip syncing. But I remember there was a 15 second clip which went viral of me performing Just For Me which I always perform in a very painstakingly loving

and like doting way where I look sad. Just For Me is the stalkerish track. It's the stalkerish song because it's such a... It's supposed to be influenced or slightly inspired by Stan by Eminem. Yes. It's a really good track actually. Oh, actually oh thanks louis so yeah so that was my whole vibe and i remember people but again again people didn't i guess i i could have done more i guess the audience your point about the track the clip going viral was what it went viral because it was good or not it was crap well it looked crap even though i was performing the song how i always perform it and no matter where i am reading ineds, where I have a great crowd who are...

People were sharing it because it was crap. Yeah, of course they were. Of course they were. Why wouldn't they? Viral, viral. It was crap. There's no such thing as bad viral. Well, yeah, but in my... I know what you mean, but for me... I don't even know if I believe that. Well, good.

If you were attacking someone with your handbag, would that be good viral? No, I think it's terrible viral. But the review, yeah, it was just written by someone that I was just like, I don't think they listen to my music. And that's when I realized, if you listen to my music and you give me a review, then I think you understand me way more than somebody that doesn't understand me and writes a review. And that's why I believe context matters within every artist. Context matters within every artist. I remember believing back in the day, context doesn't matter. If you're a good performer, you're a good performer. Bad performer, bad performer. Context really matters. artist. I remember believing back in the day, context doesn't matter if you're a good performer or a good performer, bad performer, bad performer.

Context really matters. Some people won't like the way certain artists perform. Some people will love the way certain artists perform. It all depends if you know who I am. If you realise that my songs

are all about sadness and that just for me as a song in the music video I'm performing like I'm a very sad girl, then you'll realise why I was performing a song like that.

But they didn't realise and that's why they gave me a bad review. Really? I can understand where I need to do better but people also need to realise that context does matter with me as a performer. Sorry, I'm just talking really quietly. No, but I think that's why they gave me a bad review. Really? I can understand where I need to do better, but people also need to realise that the context doesn't matter with me as a performer. Sorry, I'm just talking really quietly.

No, but I think that's fair. But I also think, I wondered, in an interview with Angela Yee, you were asked, who is the next you, do you think? Do you remember this? Which is an odd question. And you were like, I don't know. But you said, that's why I'm fine where I am and why I'm sure of myself because it's a very specific world I've tried to create.

And I think I've succeeded. 100% what more can be said but what is the specific world I don't know well I don't know I think well that's the thing I don't know and I don't it was never intentional and I I mean again because I don't really know what she meant by the question I don't know if she meant sonically or if she meant me as a whole package I think it's the package okay well if it's a package then I don't know because I don't know anyone who would choose to really brand themselves the way I've branded myself I know it's a horror okay so you can duck the question if you like but I'm curious to know if you're conscious and I get that it wasn't planned yeah but that organically you've arrived at a style and an approach and I'm just curious whether you have a sense of what that is um I think people have give me more of a sense of it

than I do I think people have different descriptions for my the way I dress the way that I um I guess conduct myself in interviews I think people have their own idea and I and I don't know what that is because my whole thing has very been me I'm very me and I know everyone says that they're me like I'm just doing me but like my thing is I've been to me sometimes so the bad performances you're talking about like that's an example of me being to me not being able to break out of my personal shell because there is a difference between like then you might have two versions of Louis that's Louis the journalist the person on in front of the camera there's you at home I sometimes struggle to differentiate the twois that's louis the journalist the person on in front of the camera there's you at home i sometimes struggle to differentiate the two and that's when i when on stage i should be

this there's performances where i'm dancing and being all happy jolly that's when i'm being pink pantheress that performance of me at south by southwest that's me being me at home and not being able to break out into my pink Panther-ess-ness. Not performing. Not performing as Pink Panther-ess. That's me being me because I'm shy or there's something to do with the audience. I'm quite a shy person. Yes, I can tell. Can you?

Yes. And when I first started doing TV and was defined as awkward, nerdy, geeky. Yes. All these sort of adjectives that i sort of recognized but didn't really embrace like i didn't really i didn't see myself as that yeah and nevertheless i sort of had to accept you know the fifth sixth tenth 100th time the same set of adjectives is applied you have to accept okay i guess that's sort of who i. And then you become conscious of using it to your advantage, I suppose, a bit, or accepting that that's part of your gift,

part of your talent is to be those things that people are finding in you, right? I'm just wondering whether that applies to you. Not those words, but whether you specifically have, there were some surprises about how people saw you from the outside. God, I don't know, I'm getting teary. Why, what's making you cry?

I don't know. I don't know. what's making you i don't know i don't know i think no don't stop i'm not crying for anyone watching not crying i'm tearing up though and i think it's because you're god louis it's because you're talking about the labels that you got and i don't know how you felt about those labels at the time maybe you embrace them I get told a lot same thing but I can't control it because that's who I am but because of who I am as a person and I don't think we're similar well I don't know well maybe we are similar maybe a bit both awkward or a bit shy but because of our jobs I feel like we have jobs where you're expected or people want you to be something and I and I and I get

those labels a lot awkward and shy and stuff like that and it's hard to be told those things when people there's such an expectancy for you to be something else yeah and that's where people do criticize you and that's where people are telling you that your live performance is bad or that you come across awkward or I don't know I don't know why I'm getting upset but essentially you being told all those things just reminds me of me being told all those things and I don't mind being told those things at all I don't mind being told I'm shy or awkward but sometimes it is a bit you know sometimes it makes you feel like there's something wrong with you almost do you feel that or maybe you don't feel that well I mean in terms of when you say like do I feel there's something wrong with me sometimes I sort of feel like I can't really control the parts that people are

liking that's it that's how I feel too and I don't know when I'm coming across awkward in a charming way or if it's in a very off-putting way you know and so you're not always in control of your gift and that make that's a bit insecure making because you like I don't quite get what you're getting like I'm doing me but I'm not sure if the me that you're liking is the same me that I'm enjoying putting out yeah 100% can't word it do you get that more in America I find it more in America though as well where America they seem to expect more performance a bit like be big be a big big charming personality when you're on radio interviews or and you're like it's not who i am it's not it's not who i am and i think for some people again some people i think find it endearing and because well that's the the

brand that you're mentioning i think that's now part of my brand whether I want it to be or not because my music is also quite you know it's in a very specific world it means that people then apply it to me as a person they go well she must be quite anxious she might be quite awkward and she must be quite you know she must not think highly of herself and therefore I think they view me as this really timid shy thing in America it doesn't translate well some people just think it's rude, almost. Whereas over here, I think they understand it a bit more and they think, okay, well, she's just British or she's just, you know... Not playing the game so much.

Not playing the game so much. And it's tough because if I was to be anything else, it would be false. And it would be a lie. And I can't, I don't want to do that. I don't want to do that. And that's why I am myself. Even when I feel like I should be lie and I can't I don't want to do that I don't want to do that and that's why I am myself even when I feel like I should be more I can't do it so for the live shows next year will you be doing a big old singing or dancing spectacle I don't believe I'll be doing any dancing but I do want it to be a level up from what it is I've got I feel like it's been pretty

good recently though I've got a band and I've been, my live vocals, I'm getting, yeah, that's what I'm working on right now. I think that's the thing, I think I'm trying. My main ambition was to create music which was interesting, new, unique and made people feel and made people think about their inner self. I didn't make my music to perform it live. I didn't make my music to be this person.

And, you know, I didn't make my music to perform it live I didn't make my music to be this person and you know I didn't do it for those reasons and so to learn that it's difficult so I think I'm going to level up I'm opening for Olivia Rodrigo next year and I want it to be great and I want people to love it but we'll have to see when it happens are you okay I want to check in with you I'm so fine that was no it was quite something when you got upset you know what it wasn't I was upset because of my own testimony honestly when you talked about your testimonies and how you were being you know labeled back in the day that made me upset because i don't know because i'm fine by the way i'm worried about me although it's weird when you like and then it's like oh wow i'm quite i don't know if it's going to sound weird but they're focusing on things about your appearance where it's not necessarily flattering.

You're like, I thought I was an okay-looking guy. What, are you talking about yourself? Yeah, and then I'm like, maybe I'm not. Maybe I'm kind of freaky-looking. No, come off it. That's not an infatuation. I'm not angling. Stop right there.

You know what, you're interesting. I know you weren't angling, but it's interesting because you actually have, like, girls my age or even younger talking about your looks even now I feel like they call you like yeah I think you're like a silver fox okay I'm gonna not leave that not for me oh no no but I'm just letting you know do you talk about relationships in my songs yeah I do what about in life what about in podcasts are you in a relationship no i don't talk about relationships no no but you talk about ics oh yeah what you've got certain ics in in guys i think everyone and one of them is name dropping

which i can relate to like no one wants like a name drop yeah that's not really an ic that's more of a just off-putting off-put the other one was nothing makes me cringe, but men, imagine you're in a mall and your boyfriend, your partner is carrying a tray of food to your table. Oh, that's a big ick. What does that mean though? What's wrong with someone bringing food on a tray to your table? I'll explain. So an ick is not a turnoff. A turnoff is more of a bad hygiene, bad breath, like that. Of course, that's an off-putting thing. That's a turn-off. An ick is something very specific. You don't want to see your partner do it,

not because it makes them look bad, but just because you don't want to picture them doing it because it just maybe makes you cringe. How do you bring food to your table without a tray? I don't want to see anyone holding a tray of food. It's just an ick. How does the food get to the table? It's something I'd...

Okay, so I'd rather... Say we were at McDonald's and there was a tray, or if you have the option of holding the bag, hold the bag. Don't take the tray. Taking the tray is... Both your arms are here. Your shoulders are all hunched up like this. You have to watch the food to make sure it doesn't spill.

Oh, God, it's horrible. I bet there's a gangster way of carrying a tray. That's a good challenge for the socials i want to see some people sending photos i don't know where to but of yourself holding a tray in a way that's gangster you know why i like you though because you have adapted to your new platform you're an adapter i can tell because the way that you just did that was incredible right send. Send them in. Let's crowdsource that. The most gangster one will get a free copy of... My new album. But can I ask you a question?

A handwritten note saying, get a life. Do you have an ick, though? I do have a few icks. Okay, so what about your... I don't know if you're married or whatever. I'm married. Okay, if she fell over. Like, if she fell over...

That wouldn't be a nick. That would be a cause for alarm. No, but like, not in a bad way, but she was running and she fell over. Like, that's fell over... That wouldn't be a nick. That would be a cause for alarm. No, but like, not in a bad way, but she was running and she fell over. Like, that's what... That can't be a nick.

That's like saying it's a nick to be run over by a car or have a skiing accident. What about if she told... How could that be a nick? If she told a joke in front of loads of your friends and no one laughed.

Sometimes she laughs so hard that she goes... That she snorts like a pig. But that sounds enduring. But that's actually quite endearing. That sounds endearing. But sometimes when we eat and she snorts like a pig. But that sounds endearing. But that's actually quite endearing. That sounds endearing. But sometimes when we eat and she finishes everything on a plate, that's not an ick, that's good.

But then she licks her finger and starts wiping up. Big, old ick. Or when they lick the plate. I don't even know if that's an ick, but I know better than to say don't do that. I'm just, I just. No, you're just letting her do her. by me again louis through just to remind you you're listening to the louis through podcast and now back to my conversation with pink pantheress

so you grew up in in um you were born and raised in Bath to the age of? Five. Five, and then you moved to Canterbury. And according to an article in the Mail on Sunday, your dad is and was a statistics professor, and your mum worked for the civil service. No. That's what it said.

Okay, well, that's good. What was it? What did your parents do? Well, yeah, you're correct about my dad and my mum. I shan't mince, I shan't talk about my mother. Are your parents together? Yes. Your mum's from Kenya? Yes.

Mombasa? Yes. This is getting a bit like, what is it, Mastermind? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pass. Do you feel connected to Kenya? Absolutely. But the last time I went was when I was 11. But I still feel very connected. I'm very connected to my mum and where she's from and where I'm from.

Is your racial heritage important to you? Well, yeah, of course, I guess. Yeah. Well, racial, whatever, I mean culturally. I'm very, to where I'm from specifically, East Africa, Kenya, specifically, I'm very connected to that heritage, yes. Do you speak Swahili? For realsies?

Yeah, do you speak any? A little bit. Okay. Jambo. Jambo, Hawaii. Hawaii. Hawaii. Missouri.

Missouri. Now we're wedgie. Okay. Now we're wedgie. Now we're wedgie. Do you want a wedgie? No, that is and you? Missouri Santa.

Okay, good. That's about all I've got. Oh, right. Surprise, surprise. I thought you were going to start. I thought we were going to get into it. That's cool that you speak it, though. Is there anything you want to say about growing up?

No. It was pretty pretty happy and yeah i i don't like talking about my family or anything why is that even mentioning the swahili in the kenyan part because um they just they're like me they don't actually want to be talked about that's why the whole daily mail thing was really like especially my dad they had a picture of him of my dad yeah they did yes and like it was horrifying what your family what are they oh you know what can i say yeah they are have you ever been to margate of course yeah love margate i could have sworn when i was 16 i saw you at dreamland

on halloween night i was sure of it. Dreamland is the, what is it? It's like a theme park. It's also like now a venue. But I saw someone and he was wearing a witch hat and I was like, God, that's Louis Theroux.

I said to all my friends, I was like, that must be Louis. And they go, yeah, that's Louis Theroux. And the more I looked at him because he was wearing makeup, the more I looked at him,

I was like, that's not fucking Louis Theroux. Because I realise you're way taller in person. Six feet three? Well, the clue is in the lyric. Six feet two in a compact. Oh, in your rap? No slack.

But luckily... Did you write that yourself? Or did you get a ghostwriter? You know that I did. Well, actually, I had the help of Reese and Bigelow, two Jackson-based rappers. Okay. So let's figure out how we,

um, wrap this, wrap, wrap, no pun intended. So basically you've got the album coming. There's, they're going to be a lot of live.

You've got the shows, but what else have you got coming up? Um, I've got a few performances coming up. I can't, I don't know which ones I can say. As you look forward and you look to these shows in the future. And do you think like,

are you jumping in with both feet? Yes. in the future and do you think like are you jumping in with both feet? Yes. But at some point do you think oh I'll just go back to writing music and Well yeah that's the thing

so actually I want to be a writer too so I love artists that can really balance straddle between the singing and the writing and I want to do both right now I'm obviously

more of a singer what I actually want to be a writer too so I want to write for other people I want to do sessions with loads of artists and be like

the writer and the singer I just want to be all rounder is I want to write for other people I want to do sessions with loads of artists and be like the writer and the singer I just want to be all-rounder do you think the price of whatever discomfort you feel at doing the live shows is worth 100% payoff and so it's not you think oh let's do this and see how it goes you're basically saying I want to be a full-on entertainment person well you just have to like honestly the amount of times I've said to my team oh my god i'm never doing live again i'm never doing it again you realize that like i don't know i'm i've got where the money is no funny that is where the money is okay but i'm not really that's not my motivation um i think my thing is it's not my motivation my thing is listen we only live once and if you don't

do or try your best at everything then I could be 60 and regretting never doing live I could be like

fuck why didn't I do that so I'm gonna give it a go and I'm gonna give it my best go ever like I'm actually actually I am I am you're gonna kill it

you're gonna dead it dead it I don't know if you can say that no dead it also that means bad dead the beef yeah you're to kill it. You're going to dead it. Dead it? I don't know if you can say that. No, dead it. Also, that means bad. Dead the beef. Yeah. You're going to kill it. You're going to smash it.

Thank you, Lily. What's the biggest place you're playing? Well, actually, if I'm going on tour... Well, I am going on tour with Livia, and that's some pretty big crowds, like 14,000 capacity crowds. Mind you, they probably won't all be there for when I'm on stage, but they're pretty big places.

Olivia Rodrigo, you'll know her, hit Vampire. Oh, I'll know... People out there. I'm not talking to you. Oh, sorry. People in Radio Land. Vampire. How did that one go? I'm a goddamn vampire. That was a great impression. I just did. That was.

Do it again. You're a goddamn vampire. What's the lines before that? Sucking me dry. I just did. That was. Do it again. Oh, you're a goddamn vampire. What's the lines before that? Sucking me dry like a... What is it? Yeah, sucking me dry. Sucking me dry like a goddamn vampire. Yours was better.

Yeah, because... Yeah, I studied the voice a lot. By the way, you had a kind of powerful voice when you did Olivia Rodrigo. Just then? Yeah. Oh, yeah, I've got multiple voices that's got different registers i can do powerhouse i just don't do it in my music really 100 i have a great voice i actually do a powerhouse oh yeah but this is what i mean it just gets awkward because i just

haven't prepped give me a person to do an impression of. What about Rihanna? She did titanium, right? No, diamond. Diamonds, I mean. No, I can't do her either. Shining light like a diamond. Did you do an accent there? Shining bright like a diamond.

You're doing a beige accent there. I wasn't. You were. Heard it. Heard it. Canceled. You said do someone and then you're refusing to do any of the people're refusing yeah because you're naming flipping like do a powerhouse

that you want to do no I can't I don't no like I can do a powerhouse but in the shower like I'm not in I get it Lewis Theroux's podcast

without any water nothing it's gone back to Lewis yep that's how bad it got thank you so much for coming by no thank you

it was very fun and so that was my conversation with pink panther s hope you enjoyed that. I think you'll agree it really, you know, there was this sort of slightly awkward start and then it just warmed right up and became something, not to big myself up, but one of the best interviews of modern times. Believe it or not, although I'm a cold-blooded interviewer and a total professional, like I take no pleasure in when someone I'm interviewing cries. In this case, when Pink began becoming emotional, it was unexpected, especially because it seemed to be based on me talking about how reviews would describe me as a geek, which, you know, I was really remarking on just as a kind of curiosity rather than as a source of deep pain. But then who knows, I'm often a stranger to my own

feelings and I can be blindsided by, um, sadness. Anyway, maybe I was just the catalyst for what she was, something she was going through and, and you know going through because reminder she's 22 so she's very much in the midst of everything that's going on she's got these shows coming up she's got her first album you know you heard the chat but I have to remind myself that these aren't people looking back in all cases looking back on their careers in a state of tranquility she's in the eye of the storm, right? My only regret from that chat, it regrets too strong maybe, is I didn't get to hear her powerhouse vocals because I couldn't seem to summon the right song for her to deploy them upon. I'm still a little confused about the icks. Although am I? I mentioned that I have an ick which is my wife my beautiful wife nancy when

she rubs her finger around the plate after she's eaten everything on it and then licks her finger did is that how i characterized it if i could start giving you the icks that she has for me we'd be here all day but a few of them are speaking at the dinner table when there's some food in my mouth, hearing me either flossing my teeth or clipping my nails and the sound I can hear in the other room. She's like, I can hear that. I'm like, well, how do you do that? Clip your nails and floss your teeth without making any noise. Suggestions welcome. So I hope it was clear from the conversation but you know I really liked her and I felt like I was relating to a fellow misfit of a sort, a kind of someone who like me is at odds with the world around her somewhat so nice to know that someone's carrying the flag

for us outsiders and weirdos and musical geniuses all right credits produced by millie chew the assistant producer was man al-yazari the production manager was francesca bassett and the executive producer was Aaron Fellows. The music in this series was by Miguel de Oliveira. This is a Mindhouse production for Spotify.