The Mel Robbins Podcast - 5 Ways to Take Your Power Back When People Disrespect You

Episode Date: April 6, 2023

Today, you and I are calling BS on partners, friends, siblings, colleagues, and roommates who ride on your coattails, mooch off your generosity, and love the fact that you do everything. (While they do next to nothing.…) It’s time to take your power back with 5 actionable takeaways to get people in your life to step up and do their part. I’m not messing around. The first person you’ll meet in this episode is tired of being the only one holding her family together.   And during the second coaching session I get even more intense with a woman whose boyfriend hasn’t had a job in three years. Hear me loud and clear: by enabling other people, you are part of the problem.  There are 5 things you need to know that will change this dysfunction now. Clear your schedule for the next hour because you and I have an appointment where you, my friend, will learn how to lay down the law and start putting yourself first. Xo Mel  Can’t ask for what you need? Listen to “How to Speak Up for Yourself.” In this episode, you will learn: 3:00: Do you have people in your life who rely on you a little too much?4:30: Maybe you’re being used or maybe it’s this instead.7:00: Is it time for you to be the parent now?10:00: This is how to get your entire family on the same page.14:00: Your siblings will understand your expectations if you do this.17:15: Do this to make people feel that they’re doing the right thing.21:30: Have a partner that isn’t pulling their weight? You need to hear this.35:00: This is how you start a conversation when it’s time to set boundaries.38:30: In a toxic partnered relationship? This is the truth bomb you need.40:15: Has it become more important to be loved than to love yourself?44:45: Let me coach you through this exercise to help you change your future.48:00: Another truth bomb you need to hear today, no matter what you’re doing.51:45: Listen to Brooke set a courageous boundary for the first time.54:00: Keep little ears away, because this is what tough f’n love sounds like.56:30: Stop letting your patterns make choices for you and step up.1:00:45: Use this word instead of “ultimatum” when it’s time for that. Disclaimer

Hey, it's your friend Mel, and today on the Mel Robbins podcast, we're going to talk about the other people in your life, the ones that are kind of annoying you and what to do about it. All right, you guys, I don't know what is in there, but you have been flooding MelRobbins.com and all of the DMs with questions about people in your life that will not change. And it's starting to bug you. And it doesn't matter what you do, you have tried to push people, inspire people, lead by example, you have given pep talks, you have resorted to bribing people.

If you would pick up around the house a little bit more, I'll buy you that new lacrosse stick. I think we've all been in that situation where you see potential in somebody that you love, you want them to fulfill upon that potential. And they don't do anything about it. And yeah, you've been dropping hints, you support, you push, you have tried in every single way to get that person to fulfill the potential you see in them, or at least to get them to see it in themselves, and nothing happens. It breaks your heart. And as hard as you try, they don't do anything. And yet you can't stop yourself from trying to push them. Or there are those situations where you're starting to feel like you're being used,

because you do everything around the house, or everything around the office, and everybody else seems to have it pretty easy. While you're busy doing all the dishes and all the grocery shopping or finishing up all the year-in reports, why is this always fall to you? And you've dropped hints,

and you've tried to push people to do different, and you've even given your ultimatums. Nothing changes. That's what we're talking about today. What do you do when either you can't get somebody you love to change and they are wasting their life, wasting, throwing their potential out the window. And what do you do if you're starting to feel used?

That it's all on your shoulders, that everybody lives on easy street, but you, because you pay the bills and you do all the hard stuff and it always drops in your lap. Well, that is exactly what we're going to talk about today. How to identify when this is happening and more importantly, what to do about it. And you're going to hear from two listeners who are struggling with people in their life, who they love, but who they are ready to just, oh, they just are just so sick of it.

You know, they're so sick of it, they're calling me. And by the way, for those of you who have never met me on Mel Robbins, I'm a New York Times best-selling author in one of the world's leading experts on habits, motivation, and change, and you have pulled into a fantastic, inaugural edition of the Mel Robbins podcast. Because today, we're kicking this topic off with a question from a listener named Crystal

who has got some issues with her siblings. Hey, Mel, it's Crystal, and I have a big question. How to know if you're being used. I have two adult siblings that have always lived with me. One has been unemployed for more than three years. Last week, my working sibling was placed on PIP. I've always been the big breadwinner, and they and my mom all lived in my home. My mom passed away four years ago,

it's becoming increasingly difficult to motivate them and or get them to understand the way to responsibility is on me. I'm beginning to think they don't care and are enjoying the stress-free lifestyle they've become accustomed to, or they don't understand because they've never had this type of responsibility. When are they going to grow up and be equal contributors or move out? This is really eating up bandwidth in my head. I will add we had a horrendous childhood and largely why we all stayed together. There are safety in numbers and we had to have a united front

against a very abusive father and ex-husband. He abused us all well into adulthood. Thanks for any insight. Thanks for all you do. Crystal, thank you for that question and thank you for the detail that you provided in the end. I think that's really relevant to how you handle this and how you think about the situation that you're in.

I've got five takeaways that I'm going to share with you. The first one is this. There is a big difference between being used by somebody and being in a situation where somebody is used to the situation. Does that make sense? I'm going to unpack this a bit. So I think it's really, really important. When you're being used, that's a situation where somebody is intentionally taking advantage of a situation to their benefit. They know they're doing it. For example, if you're in a job and you've basically phoned it in and you're only staying there because you want the money, but you're not actually doing what's

expected of you, you are using your employer. When you sneak stuff from your roommate's side of the refrigerator, you're using them. When you intentionally do something, like invite yourself to somebody's house, even though you don't like them, but they have a great pool and it's a nice weekend, but you are not that great of a guest or you know, you gossip about it. You're using them. Are you in a situation where you're being used because somebody's leading you on, but deep down they just want sex. And yet they're telling you that

this is more, but they just want sex. That's a situation where you're being used. Or you in a situation like crystal where the situation's been like this for a while and everybody's kind of used to it, but you're just sick of it. So you now want to change it. And so, I think it's important for you, Crystal, to anchor there. And as you are listening to me, unpack all of these takeaways, I want you to apply this to your situation. And the details, Crystal, in your particular situation matter, because you guys are used to living together. You guys are used to being under the same roof. You said that you've been doing this for a long time.

Your mom used to live with you and that there's safety in numbers. And so I believe what's happened is that you are just tired of the situation the way that it is. And that means that you are going to be the one that changes it. Because if everybody else is used to it and they're comfortable in it, they have no motivation or no interest in changing it. Why would they? It's working for them. It's just not working for you. And that's okay. So the second takeaway, you ask the question, when are my siblings going to grow up? When are they going to realize I'm frustrated? When are they going to never? They are never going to grow up.

Why? Because they're comfortable. They're used to this. They're used to you being in charge. You've always been in charge. You've always been the breadwinner. You said as much, so they're not going to grow up. And that's okay, everybody.

That's okay. That means that you are gonna have to be the grownup, and you're going to have to parent. And I'm gonna tell you exactly what to do when you're in a situation where you're trying to make the people around you level up and help you change the situation. I also wanna say for your sake, Crystal, and for anybody else

that, you know, it sounds like you guys are all so struggling with trauma and PTSD. And so, I know that that's also why you haven't shaken things up. If all three of you experienced horrific abuse, which you just said that you did, then you also have the added issue of people maybe not having healed from that trauma and maybe not being as proactive or as motivated or as self-sufficient as they could be. There was another detail in what Crystal said. She said, PIP, what does that mean? Everybody.

It means a performance improvement plan. What that basically means is you're fucking up at work and your bosses have sat you down. And they have said, your work is not satisfactory. And we are going to put you on a PIP, a performance improvement plan, which is very embarrassing. It's very confronting.

I'm not making excuses for the sibling. I'm just trying to explain the psychology here of why they're not growing up and why they've gotten very comfortable with very low standards. And you're now in this framework at work where you're being measured. And if you don't measure up, your ass is fired.

But oftentimes when people are set up with a PIP, they feel so ashamed and embarrassed that they just quietly quit. They feel like the writings on the wall. They feel unmotivated and self-conscious. 90% of people, when they get put on a performance improvement plan, Leave the job. Whoa. It kind of makes sense because you feel like you've been called out and you're embarrassed. And so it's really important how you set up a performance improvement plan. Because if it's literally like you suck and you're going to get fired unless you do these things, who wants to say at that job?

A performance improvement plan can be a really good thing, because it means that they are providing a pathway for you to be able to excel, which means they believe that you can. And so crystal ironically, we're going to put your family, your siblings on a performance improvement plan, and we're going to set it up the right way. And you're going to get everybody on the same page, clean slate, new plan, and we're gonna set it up the right way. And you're gonna get everybody on the same page. Clean slate, new energy, and you're gonna do that by setting small attainable goals so that everybody feels not only like they can be successful,

but they're gonna feel ascent as pride as they start contributing to the family household. And you, Crystal, you're gonna borrow a 19 word sentence. This is something that's been studied at Stanford. When you say to somebody, I have high expectations of this team and I think you're capable of achieving them, which is why I'm going to put you on a performance improvement plan, so that you know what's expected. And I believe you can achieve this.

This is the path forward for success for you. That is a way that makes you want to play the game. Because since it's your family, you can talk about your feelings and you can talk about your need to feel support. And you can talk about these simple things that they can do that would make a huge difference in this living arrangement and in their lives and in your lives. So it can be like a really positive thing that you're going to do. So take away so far. You're either being used because it's conscious and intentional or you're just in a situation where people are used to what's going on and

they're not motivated to change it like you are. When will other people grow up and realize this? Never. You've got to be the adult in this situation if you wanna change it, because it's your life, it's your happiness. By the way, it's also your house, and it's your responsibility to lead the change that you wanna see, always. Another takeaway that I want you to have is when you're around people that are not motivated to change their lives. You're probably dealing with what psychologists call learned helplessness.

Now learned helplessness was first coined in 1965 by a very famous psychologist after doing these really awful experiments with dogs. I'm not even going to explain the experiments. But basically what learned helplessness is is it's when you receive a series of setbacks or you are experiencing a lot of pain and you basically give up. You decide that there's nothing that you can do, it is what it is, and you just survive and try to cope through the pain and the situation. It's the difference between being a person who is pessimistic, that you feel like nothing's

ever going to change. You're never going to be good enough. Why even bother? Boss never likes my work or I never do well at work or my sister already takes care of things and I'm never going to amount up to anything. Versus having an optimistic point of view and optimism realistic optimism is just the belief that through your own actions and through your own attitude you can make a positive dent in any situation. That your effort is always worth it, that trying is always worth it, that growth is available to you. And so I say this because when you're surrounded by people that have this sense, that nothing they do matters, it just creates complacency and fear. And there's

one thing that makes a difference when you're in the situation in crystal. I think that's a situation that you're in. You guys have passed trauma. The situation has always been that you always take care of everything. Now you've got one of your siblings who's on a performance plan, so they're feeling kind of kicked down to the ground.

And I would imagine there is this sense of pessimism. There is this sense of, I'm just used to life not being easy. And that's where you can come in. And this is the fourth takeaway, you ready? They need goals. They need goals set by you. Goals for how they are supposed to show up. You see, they don't know the path forward.

They don't know how it's supposed to look. You do because you want the situation to be different. And so it's on you to set what are called smart goals. For those of you who have not heard about smart goals, we will link to the article that was written in 1981, where three researchers came up with the idea of smart goals in the context of leadership and business. But smart goals is a very simple and effective way

to think about setting goals for yourself or other people. Smart stands for specific, measurable, achievable, realistic, and timely. And so here's how this is going to work with your siblings. I want you to think about how the situation could be different. Put on an optimistic hat, and now we're going to paint a picture of what it would look like in the day-to-day living situation so that you feel supported.

Because it's not just about the money, are they doing anything around the house? Are they cooking? Are they caring for the yard? When it snows, do they shovel? Are they taking the trash out on Mondays? Are they making their beds in the morning? Like, what is it that would make you feel as though the dynamic has shifted? That everybody's leveled up in their own achievable way, and

those actions make you feel a shift, okay? So let's go back to smart, specific. What are specific goals you could set? And those goals might look like you need to make your bed every morning. Those goals might look like I'm going to make a grocery list and every Tuesday someone's going to go to the grocery store. I'm going to create a schedule for who's cooking and who's doing dishes and since you guys aren't contributing financially, that's what you're going to do. I know I'm being very kind of like annoyingly detailed here and maybe in a really condescending way,

I don't mean to be. I'm trying to say that because people don't know what you want, which is what you should assume, and you're the one who wants the situation to be different, you have to get crystal clear, black and white granular, meaning specific. I gotta be able to measure it. It's gotta be broken down so that your siblings

can achieve it. It's gotta be realistic and it's gotta be timely, meaning do it on a Tuesday, do it on a Wednesday, every weekend, I expect this. Because that is how you lay a path forward for somebody who is in a hole to be successful. And any of you listening who have adult kids coming back to live with you in your home, or if you have an ex who lives with you or a friend, if you're in a situation where you

feel like you're the one that's being used and you're the one that's paying the bills and everybody's got a free ride, I want you to use the same plan to help get those people in your life back on their feet and help you detach from being their crutch. So the final piece, the fifth takeaway is this, when you see your siblings doing those actions, when you see them checking the boxes, when you see them making their bed, when you see them spending an hour every day looking for a job,

or you see them checking in with you for 10 minutes every night about how work went today. When you see those actions happening, you got a cheer for them because what you're trying to do is you got to cheer for them. Because what you're trying to do is you're trying to create an environment where somebody knows that you believe in them, they know what your expectations are, they know the defined achievable steps that they can take in order to make you happy.

And then when they do those things, you gotta cheer for them. You gotta say thank you. You gotta say I appreciate you. This is so important because you're not dealing with a situation crystal where you're getting used. You're in a situation where you're trying to level up your siblings and you're trying to do it when there's issues like generational trauma and hopelessness

and patterns in place and a dynamic between all of you, which means you got to get super intentional about what the new game looks like, you got to define it, and then like an awesome coach always does, you got to cheer for your players as they are in that game. That's how you do this. And I know you can do it because I can just tell based on your voice that you are somebody who is a very matter of fact professional successful, awesome person, which is why this is frustrating. Because we all think that everybody thinks like us. We all think that all those things that you think are obvious. Why do you put your stuff on the floor?

Why don't you just let the dog out? We think it's obvious. It's not obvious to everybody, but you can make it obvious and you can make it a game worth playing. And don't forget, you get to talk about your feelings. Guys, I love you, but I feel frustrated. And I'm starting to feel a little used. And I'm starting to feel very sad because I see you guys just coasting in life. And I believe that there's something more for you. And so here's my request.

If you're going to continue to live with me and I want you to, I need you to show up differently. And here is what I need from you. And I know you can achieve this. It And here is what I need from you. And I know you can achieve this. It would make a huge difference for me. And if you don't think you can do that, then maybe it's come to the point where we can't live together.

But I need this support from you guys. And you might be surprised at how they show up if you frame it in the support that you need from them. It would probably feel really good to know that I could actually do something that my sister would appreciate and feel supported by instead of feeling like the one that's not successful. So that's another way to look at it. But gosh, I really appreciate your question.

So thank you. All right, so that's question number one, but don't you dare go anywhere because coming up, I'm going to be coaching a listener of this podcast live. Her name is Brooke and Brooke's boyfriend has not worked for two years and she's feeling used and she has no idea how to bring this up with him. She wants them to get a job, she wants things to change, but she's scared he's going to leave. We got all that coming up next. Welcome back.

I'm Mel Robbins. Today we're talking about what you do when you are feeling used and how you can inspire people around you to level up the game of life without trying to fix them. I can't wait to jump in with this next listener. Her name is Brooke and she wrote to me because her boyfriend hasn't worked in two years. And honestly, she's tired of it. So let's get Brooke on the line. Brooke!

Hi! It's so nice to meet you. Oh my gosh, it's great. It's great to meet you. Thank you for being here. Absolutely. Thanks for having me. Of course.

So tell me you're so cute. I love your glasses. Oh, thank you. I like yours too. And the photos behind you are so cute. I love your glasses. Thank you. I like yours too. And the photos behind you are so cool. Oh, thank you. That's actually of my best friend. She just passed away a little over a year ago.

Oh, that sucks. I know. It really does. Yeah. So what's going on, Brooke? How can I help you? So I just love your advice on this. I have a boyfriend who my love of a lot for many reasons but he hasn't worked in him

for years. He lives with me and isn't contributing financially and he has a problem with it. When I bring up getting a job, he gets defensive and often leads to not only a conversation that ends up not being productive but he becomes more distant. He doesn't have a

close relationship with his friends and family. I am as his closest person in his life. And I have learned that this makes it really difficult to persuade him or encourage him. I want to be supportive and allow him to have his own process of change, but it's frustrating because I'm paying for everything. I also feel like I can't fully trust him and he's turning away from me.

I'm not sure if he's using me, or he's going to become what I feel he's capable of becoming, which is a great version of himself, and find a job and be better. The relationship feels toxic, but also feels unique. This is the greatest issue that I'm having right now, and I just don't know how to go about it.

Gotcha. So that was great, and now I want you to just talk to me and tell me what's going on. Like a grant. Well, actually right now, I've been finding that, you know, besides the work situation, our relationship has not felt as toxic. We haven't been fighting, we've been getting along. I just don't bring it up. I don't bring up the him not working as much because it does lead to him not working as much because it does lead to friction. I can immediately see his uncomfortability in it and he just kind of shuts down and gets defensive. So I kind of leave it alone, but I can't keep leaving it alone. I really feel it's inappropriate

that this is what's going on. Does he know you're talking to me? He does. I made a move house. So I couldn't hear what was going on. And how did he feel about you talking to me? Good. He was supportive. I didn't go to detail about what it was about. You know, as I listened to your podcast all the time though, and I make him listen to it too, or I'll like sneak it it on when I'm driving a car. I just... We, my sister, were just talking about the similar to our field like, with listening to your podcast.

I feel like I... Realizing things that I need to change that I'm doing it, but no one else around me in everyday life is doing the same things. So I'm trying to be patient and using different tools. And if she's laughing, she's like, I feel the same way. It's so hard to, you know, you want to just like, get them to understand it and feel the same way and change.

But, you know, that's not always right. Well, I want to get to the fact, so how long have you been with your boyfriend? Just about three years. Okay, and for how long has he been unemployed? It's going on two years now. I was January of last year that he had to surely Stopped working completely and then when he was working and he kind of wasn't

Doing that great like he was working and he kind of wasn't doing that great, like he was going there late and his boss was getting frustrated with him. And then I think his boss actually ended up letting him go. And he just hasn't been motivated to do anything since. He was incarcerated for eight years as well. And I don't know what that's like. And he does say a lot of times that he believes that that could have something to do with where he's at in his life and he gets very frustrated. What's that?

I'm sure. I don't know how to help them in that way at all. I don't I want to be supportive. But I also need support too. Yeah. I have to. Yes, you do. You deserve support. And I'm glad you reached out for help. And there's a couple things that I want to say right off the bat because I'm going to ask a few more details. It's important for you to know that in the beginning of my career, I worked for legal aid, and I was a criminal defense attorney. And so I represented people like your boyfriend who were either accused of or convicted of crimes. And I believe that once somebody has served their sentence,

we need to do a much better job as a society in rehabilitating, in empowering, and in welcoming people back into society. And it's glad that you shared with me that he did spend eight years incarcerated because there is no question that the reentry into life outside of the jail system is very jarring, traumatic, isolating. And one of the things that I know a lot of people that I represented really struggled with is not only the rejection and the scrutiny that you face when you get out, and in some states, the laws that make it very, very difficult for you to truly find meaningful work, is that the structure of being incarcerated is completely removed.

And even though it is horrendous to experience any time behind bars, there is this kind of certainty that you come to rely on in terms of the day-to-day schedule. And so for somebody like your boyfriend, to get fired and lose that day-to-day structure, it does not surprise me at all that he has spiraled mentally,

that he has not got any motivation, and that this has been a very challenging situation for you to watch as well. And so I'm saying that because I want you to know that I'm bringing a level of not first hand experience, but having either represented or counseled or kind of coached people that are in this exact situation, this is more complex than say Christopher Robbins, my husband, losing his job. Because of the added shame that you feel,

the added discrimination that he's probably experiencing when he goes into try to find a job. And was he in jail for violent crime, or was it more of that sort of white collar, as they say, crime of financial fraud, that kind of stuff? Well, it was pretty, I guess you could say violent. It was arm robbery.

It was a young kid. Yeah. And he, you know, there was a little cap, got my life. Yeah, and he, right. And it was a shame, because he was so young when he went. You know, I do understand that

he is not that person anymore, and he has lost a lot of time when he often tells me. And before I started, you know, working on myself, I used to get very defensive, and I just, you know, sat down with my words and you could see really feels like he is owed something. He feels that he doesn't even know what he wants to, who he is. Like he just got into skateboarding, you know, and at first I was like,

you're not a child, you know, I mean, you need to work. This is real life is. People have responsibilities. And my dad would get involved too. And really kind of, I felt like I was boogieing him in a sense now that I have some different perspective. And I do want to be supportive. And I don't want to be boogieing him.

And I don't want to discourage him all more than he already is. I really feel that he is so much potential. He's so smart. He's fluent in sign language because his mother's deaf. He is like, can figure out how to do anything. He's very capable and he presents himself very well. He's just not applying.

He's just not going out there. And I don't see it changing anytime soon. And it's starting to freak me out. It should freak you out because two years He's just not going out there and I don't see it changing anytime soon and start freaking out. It should freak you out because two years is a very long time. Two years is plenty of time to let somebody coast and I agree with you. It is time for the dynamic to change. What you're really asking, and this is what's universal in your question, and one of the reasons why I really wanted to talk to you, is that we all have the experience in

life of seeing the potential in somebody that we care deeply about, and doing whatever we can to support, to push, to control, to, like, whatever we can to try to get that person that we care about, to see their potential to. And the truth is that at some point, if the person stays stuck and you start to feel as you said you do, am I getting used, what is going on here? Something's got to change. You have to change the way you're showing up. He's going to have to do the work to tap into his own potential.

We've got to disrupt the dynamic between the two of you in a healthy way so that your kindness and your generosity and your patience is not enabling him to stay stuck where he is. And I believe in this deeply for a number of reasons. Number one, I do think when somebody's really struggling, they need your compassion, they need your support, they need all of that. But if you start to share how it makes you feel to watch them struggle and you start to offer up things that they could do, and he is actively not doing those things, then what's happening is you're now after two years standing by watching somebody slowly self-destruct.

And so this is a really common thing that we all face. And when you get to the point where you are, where you're sort of like at the end of your rope, you care about this person, you feel guilty about being tough with them, they get defensive when you are. You have to change your strategy. And I relate to this book deeply because I remember when Chris left the restaurant business, he was a shell of himself, complete problem with alcohol and just devastated because he had not provided, felt he had failed in his career. And I looked at him and I was like, number one, you got to get sober. And number two, you got to talk to a therapist. Those are non-negotiable.

Yeah, I don't have to. I'm sorry, I don't want to cut you off at all, but I really feel like he needs to see a therapist for several different reasons clearly. And I don't see him being too receptive about too. There was a time where you talked a little bit about it, but I just, he's very close-minded right now. And I'm sorry, and I need to turn that into a good interaction with what you were saying,

but I didn't want to throw that in there. That's very important too. It is very important. And this is where your strategy can change. You ready? Yeah, I'm ready. You've paid all the bills for how long? For two years, I guess, technically,

I mean, when it was working, girl, wasn't, okay, I'm sure reading too much, but. You've been paying the builds for two years. How does it make you feel to have all that responsibility on your shoulders? Well, one way I'm mixing so good because I am getting in a accomplished, but I feel like he's taken me in a job.

I can see why you feel that way, Brooke. And I want you to hold that thought because I have a lot more that I want to say. But I got to take a quick pause real quick. And we need to hear a word from our sponsors and we'll be right back with Brooke. And we're going to talk more about the strategy she needs to use,

what she needs to say exactly to her boyfriend and how she can help her boyfriend and herself get into a better place. Stay with us. Welcome back, I'm Mel Robbins and I'm here with Brooke and let's just get right back into it, Brooke. So one of the things that I want you to change is you need to have a conversation with them and you need to say, I can't do the work for you, but it is breaking my heart to watch you struggle

and in my opinion, not see you taking the proactive steps to changes. And so I have new boundaries that I need to express for myself. And that is, if this relationship is going to work, you must go to therapy once a week for three months. Because I believe that the reason why you're not flourishing is because you have PTSD from being incarcerated or you are struggling with depression. And if I don't see you, take the proactive steps of going to counseling for the next three months once a week, then this is not going to work and you're going to have to move out. I will pay for it, to work and you're going to have to move out. I will pay for it, but you have to be willing to meet me halfway because I can't stand by and watch somebody I love self-destructing. And I've given you two years to try to figure it out on your own and what your behavior has communicated to me is that you're not

capable of doing this on your own. And that's okay. You need a ladder to help you climb out of this hole. So I'm going to tell you what that ladder is. And I personally agree with you. I think it is therapy. But I don't want to shove that down your throat, Brooke. So what is one behavior change that you could say to him, I can't make you do it, I am

not going to force you to do it, I'm not going to guilt you into doing it. I'm just going to express a very clear boundary. We are not going to be together if you don't do this thing. I don't really know. I guess I would like to see him, you know, seeking out at least one thing that will be the start of helping. And I'm not sure what that first step would be whether it is to seek some, you know, I think you do know. Tell me what is it? See, because here's the thing, we all make the mistake of being like, I want you to start working toward it. That's not specific. You actually have to create a structured thing that he needs to check the box on because while he won't do it for himself,

the relationship is important to him. So he will do it for you because you have expressed this boundary. I don't know, that's true or not, but what do you mean you don't know if it's true or not? That's where the toxic part comes in because I honestly like, I just feel like when we have conversations like because I have kind of approached this similarly to him before and you'll say like, well, this is what, this we had broken up for a short time recently. Did he leave and pack up and leave the house? Well, it took him a while to pack up until I forced him out, but then I regretted it.

And you know, because I- I did your regret it. Because I, of my own toxic traits, I, you know, I went back, I don't want to be alone. And I, you know, I want them back. I don't want to be alone. And I, you know, started getting scared because, you know, you've just talking to somebody else and it just, you know, really freaked me out. And I do feel like I love them.

I just, I don't know. And then he throws in my face because like, you know, he came back and sometimes he'll be like, well, this is, you know, I don't know. I need to figure myself out. I told you I need to work myself. But he's not working on himself. That's not what that means. And when we broke up, I don't know, I need to figure myself out. I told you I need to work myself, but he's not working on himself.

That's not what that means. And when we broke up, he wasn't working on himself. He was trying to get into another relationship with somebody who's 10 years younger than him. And his dad lived just shortly down the road. And that's where he was supposed to be of like residing. And he wasn't, he was like, all the time, wasn't sleeping, aren't he?

He was just, he was really a mess. And then showing up here on announced and get, you know, he was just, he was really a mess. And then showing up here on announced and breaking my heart over again and being callous and mean. And we've, I feel like I know, it's bad. It's bad. Bro. He's not breaking your heart.

You're breaking your heart. Why does that make you emotional? Because I know that's true. I feel like I'm abandoned myself. And I've listened to one-year podcasts about the attachment theories. I'm definitely the anxiety version of those, you know, he's the avoidant. And I say sorry a million times and I just like one I feel like I You know need him to love me and I've been

Just not being very nice to myself, you know in the process of that When it becomes more important for somebody else to love you, then it is for you to love yourself. You're in a really toxic dynamic. And I want to commend you on something. I think deep down, you know this. And what actually scares you is you're starting to tap back into your self-worth and realize that you're better than this dynamic and you deserve better than this dynamic. And it scares you because you've never been in a relationship with yourself or with somebody else, where there's been a healthy dynamic.

And I would imagine, I'm willing to guess, that you are attracted to men who are not available because this is what was present in your childhood. Is that true? I'm not sure exactly. I have looked into that and I'm sure that it is. Well, which one of your parents do you chase more in terms of wanting affection approval? My mother. And did she feel like she wasn't that available? Yeah, yeah, she did. Like she was there.

And but she, you know, is kind of like me as a mom right now which I feel guilty about. There's kind of cool care about her shows and she, you know, when, you know, my parents got a divorce, she really wasn't, like, emotionally present and she was always tougher with her words. My dad actually had left the relationship, but he, you know, gives me the world now, you know. I just am still trying to like get that relationship that with my mom. And I hate to say that because she'll probably watch this

and she's been really trying to, you know, express to me lately like that she's sorry that that's happening again now because she's like, we're a personal struggles and right now personally I'm not affected by that. I do understand that. I'm an adult now and I see things differently, and I love her dearly, and she's a very powerful-

I think, how is the dynamic with your boyfriend similar to what it was like when your mom wasn't available? I mean, I guess I can only really talk about how I feel with how it is currently, because I don't know, but I just, with my boyfriend, I guess I can not only really talk about how I feel with how it is currently because I don't know, but I just with my boyfriend, I feel like I'm constantly just trying to be so great. And then he's going to turn on me like, oh, wow, you're so great.

And like, I love you. You know, like, you're so great. I see what you did. And I see how great you are to me. And I see you in general. And I love how great you are me and I see you in general and I love you, you know, and I just feel like I'm constantly just trying to do that, you know. You are. That's why it's not enough. You're in a relationship where you're chasing somebody who is not available and who resents you for what you need and who is in so much pain and in

such a hole that he can't possibly give you what you need right now. And you just keep telling yourself, so many of us fall into this trap. Okay, well, if I just try harder, I just do this or I just do the other thing, then it's going to be okay. And then he's going to be happy. And then he's going to love me and then it's gonna be good and then he's not gonna want that woman who's 10 years younger and you probably know

that he slept with her anyway while you guys were broken up and it's technically a broken up so it didn't really matter and even though it breaks your heart, you don't really talk about it. Is this the life that you want? No, not. And life is just too short and I wanna, you know, it's just too short.

I see the photos of your best friend on the wall behind you. What was her name? Molly. And what did she die of? An overdose. What would Molly tell you right now? She always told me to get out of this relationship and that I was, you know, I deserve so much better. That's just so confusing and I just don't know if it's not confusing.

It's not confusing at all. You either deserve better or you think you don't. Brooke, which is it? I deserve better. And if you were acting, let's just, I want you to close your eyes, okay? Close your eyes. And together, we're going to travel forward in your mind two years. So two years from now, it's a beautiful spring day. This relationship is behind you. Or not, you get to choose. It is the future you.

And you have spent two years, Brooke, really healing yourself, putting yourself first, and taking actions every single day that show you that you believe you deserve the best, that you love yourself, and that your heart is worth protecting, that you come first. Tell me what your life looks like. You're waking up, what does life look like for the future broke two years from now? I have no idea. Oh my gosh, I don't even know I can't even picture that. Yes, you do. Come on, let's picture it together. Imagine that I'm there with you. together. Imagine that I'm there with you. I feel like I would feel a lot later, first of all. Yeah.

I would wake up a lot earlier and not feel like I was going to tie something up for you. Yeah. I would probably a lot more successful in my career and I don't know. How would you do? I would just be happy. I'm proud of myself, I feel. What do you see yourself doing that you're not doing now that makes you proud? I would be more present with my son.

And I would probably be more present with my friends that I have now that I don't really engage in this much. I would show up more for myself. What does that look like? Give me an example of how you're not showing up for yourself right now. I wouldn't have days where I just feel easy and way in battle day. Been to watch television shows to escape.

My life, I don't know. I feel that's one thing I would definitely be not doing. I don't know. Yes, you do. Stop saying you don't know. I feel like I know. You just painted a very clear picture. Can I tell you what you just reflected back?

Yes. You'd get up earlier. You would be more present with your son. You would not lay in bed all day and waste the day binge watching TV. You would be more successful. You would be proud of yourself. And you would probably wake up and have a day full of things that you were doing, whether it was volunteering or going to do something with your son or spending time with those friends that you don't spend time with right now because you spend

all your time trying to fix this guy that doesn't want to be fixed, fixing him will not fix you. You are perfect and lovable exactly how you are. And you deserve to have somebody in your life that sees that and that wants to grow with you. And I can't do this for you. I can tell you that if you break up with him, he will find somebody else because he needs it. And only you can decide, Brooke, whether or not you deserve to put yourself first. And I guarantee Molly is sitting there going, girl, break up with him.

And what you don't know because you've never experienced this is, will I be able to put myself first? Will I be okay if I'm alone? And here's my answer to that. You're alone right now. Just because you have a man living in your house, who you're paying for, doesn't mean you're in a relationship. You are lonely. You do not see your friends.

You have isolated yourself and you have put all of your worth into this guy somehow transforming and giving you something he doesn't have to give right now. And I can tell you that with certainty because his actions demonstrate that. I agree. I agree what I was meant. So what do you see as the next right step? I would probably want to work again with him just to see. I just, I get so confused because like,

I'm going to have to do that again with him just to see. I just, I get so confused because like he does do some kind of loving things. So I want to approach this again, maybe about the job. What does that mean? I think I want to, you know, tell him like these, I want to set that boundary and make it real. Let's role play. I'm going to be him. All right, you ready? Yes. All right, so how did that thing go with Mel?

Did she tell you to break up with me? Yep, she did. I don't know, I'm just kidding. I knew it. I knew that bitch was gonna do that. I don't know. I don't know how to do this, Mel. I'm so sorry.

You probably not gonna wanna air this. This is terrible. How did it feel? It's not about whether it's to do this, Malm, so sorry. You probably not gonna wanna air this. This is terrible. It's not about whether it's good or bad, you and I are practicing. Okay, I just, I just feel so incapable of everything. Just why you change that? You try. You have to stop letting the feeling dictate what you do.

You have to visualize a happier, more confident brook and let her guide you right now. And it's okay to write it down and read it to him. That's probably what I would have to do. Well let's rehearse us. Let's go. What is the boundary? I love you first of foremost. I just feel that I can't sit here anymore and watch you not be your greatest self. I know that you are capable and have done some very amazing things and I feel you're not showing up right now as that version of yourself for yourself and for me. And I want to be in this relationship. It means very much to me, but I am struggling with you not being a part of this with me together. I feel we are on a team right now because of whatever it is that you are going through that's allowing for you to be this.

I see a lot of words. I see a lot of words. Is this going okay? I think you're doing fantastic stuff. I just keep talking from your heart. Tell me, well, I get that. What do I need to do? What do you mean? What's happening? I Was really like for you to find a job and

Start working looking for a job Where have you been looking for a job? I'm applying online. Oh, okay. Well, have you got anybody for a job to you? Okay. No. And what can you do about that then? What is it that you can do to put yourself in a position where that's,

I don't know, to say. I feel like it's something like that. Oh my gosh. I'll tell you why it kind of went off the rails. Okay, because looking for a job is not something specific Okay, and he's been doing it for two years and it has not worked Right or he needs a store dash, but he doesn't do it actually, you know, you can pick and choose your schedule and that job Why would you not tell him that he needs to go to therapy for three months once a week because that's what you actually want and that's what you think would make a difference?

That's, yeah, I was going to say that first. I really was and I just, I'm scared to say that because I feel like it's not my voice. Bullshit. I feel like it is your age. Hold on a second, Brooke. You're paying the fucking bills. He is living with you. You have let this slide for two fucking years, and I'm going to tell you something else.

Maybe he needs you to be stronger than he is. Maybe he needs you to say, I see something better for you. And I'm not going to fucking sit here and watch you flush your life down the toilet. And you clearly have bigger issues than I can help you with. So you either get your fucking ass in therapy and I will pay for it. And you're going to go every week for three fucking months because you're worth it. And you need somebody to help you sort out that bullshit in your head that you're telling yourself that's keeping you down and keeping you isolated for me and keeping you acting

like this. There is a better man inside and by God, I'm not gonna let my son be influenced by somebody who will not pick himself up and do the work. If you can make it through jail for eight fucking years, you can go to a therapist's office once a God damn week while I pay for it. And you wanna know something else?

I don't trust you. So I am going to drive you there. And if you're unwilling to do that, you don't deserve to be here with my son. And I am not going to stand here and watch you continue to spiral. I care so much about you that I am willing to say goodbye to you.

But what I am not willing to do is sit here and watch yourself destruct. How's that feel? I feel like great. I want to be you. That was wonderful. Well, you have to get angry. Yeah. You perked up when I said your son. So what was it about the example that he is giving to your son that actually lit a fire under your ass, Brooke?

He's being influenced. That's the male role. And you know, he doesn't have a biological father. He is being around us all the time. He lives with me. And he is my world. His name's Oakley, too, by the way I wanted to. Oh, how old is Oakley? Eight. This is pivotal years right now.

I know I was walking. That's what I mean. Well, then fucking do something about it. I have to. I really have to. I don't know why. I've allowed my side to do this. I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why, honey. And this is where self-compassion comes in. None of what you're doing is a choice. You are stuck in old patterns based on your childhood. You're scared to death of people leaving you. And your feelings and your fears are making you so hesitant. And the other reason why this is

not a choice is you deeply believe you're not worthy of love. And so you don't know how to act as though you deserve it. And so if you want to quote be me, use me as an avatar. And when you start to get those feelings coming up in your body like I can't do this, just be like, what the fuck would Mel say? This is your life, Brooks, you got to decide what's right for you. But I will tell you, if you stay in that feeling emotional space, if I can't do this, I don't know what to say. Do do do do do do do do do. You're just gonna continue to have the same thing. But if you want something different, you gotta show up and act in a different way. And since you don't know how to do this for yourself,

that's okay. That's okay. Your why becomes bigger than you. It's about your son. It's about being that fucking mama bear. And it's about saying, both, I love my son so much, and I love you, by the way, that I'm breaking the fucking chain in this dynamic right now. And since you can't do it, I'm gonna tell you what's required. Does your son deserve a man in his life that will go to therapy for three fucking months to get help?

Absolutely. Yes. Well, I mean, yes. That's not the person who really deserves someone doesn't have to be therapy. No, no, personally, I think we should have the therapy. There's nothing but if you can afford it, it's the best fucking thing in the planet. You got somebody that is completely objective listening to you go on and on and then they give you strategies.

In fact, if we all talk to a therapist every week, we wouldn't have the problems we have, because we'd be sorting through them and working on it and taking steps proactively to make ourselves happier and more fulfilled. It really deserves this. I wish it were universal that we all had access to this. So it's not that he needs it. It's also that he'll benefit from it, your son will benefit from the example and you will benefit for sticking up for yourself. You have to remove the love piece from this.

I'm serious. You're getting so caught up in the emotion of, does somebody love me? Am I worthy? Bullshit. If this were your son, would you want him to go to therapy? Of course. I have to go to therapy too. So you get to say, brook, because you pay the bills. You get to say what happens next. I love you. I'm not going to stand for this. I love my son too much to continue for this dynamic, this broken dynamic, and you must see a therapist

once a fucking week because it's the only thing I can measure. And if you're not willing to do that, this is never going to work. And you might as well move out. You've asked him for two fucking years to get a job. Do not ask him that. That's not working. What are your takeaways from this? Well, first I feel like you've painted a picture that I do feel in my soul very clearly for me to digest and I do feel very much more confident in going in direction of I really like that we are

going in the direction of the therapy as the ultimatum because I believe that's the most appropriate approach. I'm going to do that. I feel confident in doing that. I feel confident in that sort of many reasons. Can I say something that I think will make you feel better? Instead of the word ultimatum, you're giving him a choice. You're giving him a choice. He makes the choice. You're telling him he has two choices. Choice one is

accept the gift and the request that you get support once a week for the next three months, which I will pay for. And choice two is, this doesn't work because it hasn't for a long time. And so you are empowering him to choose. That's what a boundary is. It's your line. You know, I remember when Chris was really struggling and I finally said to him, the doctor has recommended that you take medication for depression. And even though Chris leads men's retreats and he's a hospice volunteer and is in all

this counseling and psychology and coaching and never ever had any issue with me taking medication, the second he was like told he probably should do it, all of a sudden he thinks it means he's weak. And I did give him a choice. I'm like, this is not gonna work if you don't try that medication for a year. And he got to make the choice. And you can give him a deadline but you you're going to have to hold him to it.

How do you feel in the framing of it as you are presenting option A or option B? I think that's, I feel good about that. I feel like it'll tell me my answer. Yeah, like if you ever want to know what somebody's actually committed to, close your ears and don't listen to a damn thing this day. Yeah, watch what they do. And it scares me a little bit,

but I feel like it's time to put my big girl pants on and deal with whatever he chooses because he does have the right. And I'm giving him the option to choose. And what he chooses is gonna tell me what I can invest in for any much more time. This is my time's valuable. That's right, Brooke.

You're having this conversation not as Brooke, but as Oakley's mother. And it's time you put Oakley first. He deserves more. He needs his mother. And this is a win for him either way, because he either sees his mother stand up and have the strength to support a man in getting into therapy and healing and holding him to it, or he sees a mom who

cares so much about him that she does not tolerate bullshit like this. And so if you go in as Mama Bear Brook and you're doing this for Oakley, it's a win-win either way because he either sees you change a relationship and stick up for yourself and it feels the love and the safety from you. Or he sees the same thing.

Right. I love you. I love you too, Mel. I believe in you. Thank you. I love you too, Mel. I believe in you. Thank you. And I want to also come back to this point that sometimes in life, the people that we think we're helping actually need the push. Because just like you're trapped in your own past patterns of feeling and emotion, he

is too. That doesn't mean you let him off. It actually means that you see higher potential. So you're going to raise the fucking bar for both of you. You're doing this for you and Oakley, and you're doing it for him. And he'll make his choices to whether or not he can raise the bar too And he might not and that's okay Right

I'll be okay You're gonna be more than okay honey. You're gonna be fucking fantastic What do you think? I just feel good. I'm so grateful. I feel so good. I feel like I can take over the world right after this. Well, look, the fear is going to be there. You're going to have the conversation anyway.

The feelings are going to be their brook. And you're going to feel overwhelmed and you're going to talk through them. And I would highly recommend that you put down some bullets on a piece of paper. Why are you having this conversation? This is a really important bullet. Because it's a, you know, the way it's impacting Othley

and myself and him too, as a person. It's time to get this process started, you know, and he needs to start his healing process and I will respect that. And I understand that, I, and I'll support it, but I wanna see it actually starting and actually being a real thing. You know, sorry, do well with part thing.

Brooke, stop making yourself wrong. You did it wrong. Because here's the thing. The second that you're willing to let him walk out the door, you have opened up the door to a whole new you. You need to stop trying to keep him. You got to be willing to let someone leave. Because the second that you're willing to let him walk out that door, he is now free to choose whether or not he's going to stay and show up. You said it beautifully, I got to do this for me. I deserve someone who is growing with me and who can accept my support and who is taking responsibility for their own stuff. And the only way I'm going to know that these things are handled is if I see you going to therapy once a week with a professional to get the support you deserve. That's it. That was great. You're great. Oh my God. And here's

the other thing I want you to understand, brok, expect to feel uncomfortable. Expect to cry. You're feeling excited now. I promise you the second he walks back in, he's like, what, you're gonna feel like, oh, expect it because then you won't be as freaked out when the emotions flood. Okay. Do the guys do this right now?

Fight for it. Fight for it. Okay, oh boy. Because otherwise, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, if he doesn't immediately be like, I'll go ahead. Okay, I'll go ahead. Okay, I'll go ahead. Okay, I'll go ahead. Okay, I'll go ahead. Okay, I'll go ahead. Okay, I'll go ahead. Okay, I'll go ahead. Okay, I'll go ahead.

Okay, I'll go ahead. Okay, I'll go ahead. Okay, I'll go ahead. Okay, I'll go ahead. Okay, I'll go ahead. Okay, I'll go ahead. Okay, I'll go ahead. Okay, I'll go ahead.

Okay, I'll go ahead. Okay, I'll go ahead. Okay, I'll go ahead. Okay, I'll go ahead. Okay, I'll go ahead. Okay, I'll go ahead. Okay, I'll go ahead. Okay, I'll go ahead. Okay, I'll go ahead. Okay, I'll go ahead. Okay, I'll go ahead. Okay, I'll go ahead. with somebody else or if you're going to accept this gift I'm giving you and this request

I'm making. That's it. That's it. I've got to raise the game here. We're going to play a bigger game. Do you have any questions, any other questions or concerns or anything else that's rattling around other than shit should I have the conversation now? No, I don't think so. Other than, I mean, if you want, you know, okay, we can, you know, meet weekly and we can do that. We might. I'm just kidding.

Oh, I can. Well, I will meet weekly. I'm here every Monday and every Thursday for you. And it always feels so good. Well, what's happening is see, I think everybody on the planet wants one thing. You want to live a life where you feel like your best and your truest, self, every one of us.

We all just want to live our lives feeling like we can express our best to ourselves. That's it. That's it. And so does your boyfriend, by the way? We don't want to give up the stuff that feels good that we're doing that are, you know, self-destructive. That's the bitch. That's the bitch. That's the bitch. But, but here's the thing. You're also doing this because you know it doesn't feel good for him to live like this. True, right.

You're not trying to fix him. You are holding up a light and saying there is a bigger possibility here and your actions have demonstrated that you're not going to do that on your own. That's it. Okay, you're going to do great. Remember Molly and I and everybody listening are your guardian angels. Holding up the light, you can do this. I promise you, you can do this and I want to know how it goes. Okay. Okay, thank you so much. I love you. I'm really proud of you and Oakley's a really lucky little guy to have

such an awesome mom. Thank you, Mel. You're welcome, darling. Muah! I hope that our conversation today has been a wake up call for you too, that you've got the tools now to spot those moments where you're being used or where you're just in a situation where the people around you are used to things the old way and you now are tapping into something greater for yourself. And what's exciting about seeing a bigger vision for your own life is that it does elevate what you see in terms of the potential in people that you love. And that's a really good thing. But remember, when you're the one that wants to change the situation, it's your responsibility to lay out the plan that is specific that gets you there.

And I think one of the biggest things that I want both you and I to remember is that people aren't in our lives so that we can grip onto them. We're also not meant to be everybody's caretakers. Just because the situation works for somebody else doesn't mean you got to continue to tolerate it. You can demand higher standards for yourself. And then you got to be willing to let somebody walk out the door. You got to be willing to let them say, I'm not ready to heal.

I'm not ready to do that. I don't want to do that. Fuck you. That's okay. Because when you let somebody walk out the door, you actually open up a whole new possibility for you. Because these conversations are not really about changing somebody else. It's about changing you. It's about you practicing the highest and the most courageous self-expression. It's about you requesting what you need in your life. And when you do that from a place of love for yourself,

for those around you, and even for the person that you're laying this choice out for, trust me, everything works out exactly how it's meant to, because you are raising the game for yourself. And I love that when you do that. And a final note I'm being used. You're only being used if you allow it. I mean, come on now. I didn't really say this to uh, Crystal or Brooke, but you're allowing shit if you continue to sit in the situation, you got two feet, you can walk out the door. You will be just fine on your own. But if you're staying in something that doesn't work, and you know it, you're not being used because you're participating in it. It's time to

level up your own ass, and maybe that means you're the one that's supposed to walk out the door. Bo! That's the door shutting behind you. That sound good? All right, case nobody else tells you. I believe in you. I do. I know you can do this. You can raise the game and I love you. I love you for so many things. And go do it, okay? Put yourself first. I'll talk to you in a few days. You're awesome. Oh, one more thing. It's the legal language. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. It is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Stitcher