The Mel Robbins Podcast - Change Your Body & Your Life in 1 Month: 4 Small Habits That Actually Work

Episode Date: February 20, 2025

In this episode, you will learn how to make healthy living unbelievably easy. Today, Dr. Rangan Chatterjee is distilling over 20 years of experience and thousands of patient success stories into just four key steps to a happier and healthier life. Dr. Rangan Chatterjee is a world-renowned physician, bestselling author, and the host of Europe’s #1 health and wellness podcast. Today, he will simplify the overwhelming topic of health and empower you to trust what feels good for your body. He is going to share practical and actionable tools you can incorporate into your life, starting today, including a simple 5-minute workout you can do in your kitchen and a proven framework to help you stop cravings and stay in control. Whether you want to cut back on sugar, sleep better, move more, boost your energy, or reduce stress, this episode has everything you need to start feeling better today.And stick around until the end of this episode because Dr. Chatterjee is talking openly about the stress that comes with caregiving: whether it’s for aging parents, a partner, your kids, or even yourself. What he has to share is truly powerful.For more resources, click here for the podcast episode page. If you like this empowering and informative episode, your next listen should be this one: Eat THIS to Lose Fat, Prevent Disease, & Feel Better Now With Dr. William LiConnect with Mel: Get Mel’s #1 bestselling book, The Let Them TheoryWatch the episodes on YouTubeFollow Mel on Instagram The Mel Robbins Podcast InstagramMel's TikTok Sign up for Mel’s personal letter Subscribe to SiriusXM Podcasts+ on Apple Podcasts to listen to ad-free new episodes Disclaimer

Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast. The expert you're about to meet traveled 3,000 miles to be here today for you and me and to have this conversation, and I could not be more excited for what's about to happen. Dr. Rangan Chatterjee is a world-renowned doctor with over 20 years of clinical experience. He is the author of six bestselling books about health and happiness. And here's what I love about Dr. Chatterjee. He just has this ability to simplify

what I think is a very overwhelming topic, and that is, how do you take better care of your health? And he's also gonna empower you to realize that you know what feels good for you. And that's important for you to be paying attention to. See, he's one of these doctors that's not just a medical expert. He's with you, and he's with the people you love,

and he cares about how you feel. And today, he is here to teach you that there are just four things, only four, not 40, four things you need to focus on when it comes to your health. He's also gonna teach you his five minute exercise routine, just five minutes that he prescribes to his patients. And check this out, he does it in his kitchen every morning

and so can you, and it has life changing impacts on your health. He's also gonna share the three F's that will help you manage cravings and so much more. And he's gonna teach you how to use what you've got. Everything he's gonna share with you. He has seen work and has had success with thousands of patients who have tried these very simple changes in these four key ways.

And so here's the deal, whether you're trying to cut back on sugar or get a better night's sleep or be more consistent with exercise or just have more energy and feel less stress, Dr. Chatterjee is here with the little tricks you can use to make change easier. Hey, it's your friend Mel and welcome to the Mel Robbins podcast. I am so excited that you're listening to this episode. I mean, first of all, it's always an honor to be able to spend time with you and be together. And if you're a new listener, I just wanna take a moment and welcome you to the Mel Robbins Podcast family.

I am so glad that you're here. And because you made the time to listen to this particular episode, here's what I know. I know you're the type of person who truly values your health and you value the health and happiness of the people that you care about. And if you're listening,

because somebody shared this with you, how awesome is that? I mean, that means that you have people that you care about. And if you're listening, because somebody shared this with you, how awesome is that? I mean, that means that you have people around you who care about you. And so that's so cool. They want you to feel more energized, happy and healthy in your life. And that means you're in the right place.

So good job, hit and play on this episode. Because today you have an appointment with Europe's number one doctor, Dr. Rangan Chatterjee. Dr. Chatterjee is a British physician. He's a bestselling author, a medical expert for the BBC and host of Europe's number one health and wellness podcast. And he's also the author of the brand new bestselling book, Make Change That Lasts. And if you're watching on YouTube, you can see that I have tabbed this book

because it is full of gems we are gonna be unpacking today. He is taking 20 years of clinical experience and distilling it into the four steps you need to take to feel better, to live better, and to take back control of your health. So please help me welcome the amazing Dr. Chatterjee to the Mel Robbins podcast. I am so excited for this conversation.

Dr. Chatterjee, I cannot thank you enough for traveling 3000 miles to sit down and be here with me and the person that is with us right now. It's my pleasure, Mel. I'm a huge fan of what you do, the way you're impacting people all over the world. So I can't wait for this conversation. Well, you know what I love about you as a doctor, as a bestselling author, you have this obsession with making things

that feel overwhelming as simple as it can be. And I'm so excited for you to really share this gift that you have of taking the overwhelming topic of living a healthier and a happier life and truly simplifying it for me and for the person that is listening and that's going to share this with somebody. It's not as hard as we think it is Mel. You know, when we think about improving our lives, our health, our happiness, our relationships, those things aren't quite as separate as we often think.

I think those three things are all absolutely interlinked. My entire career, yes with my patients, but over the past 10 years with my public platform, whether it's with my books or my podcast, I'm the past 10 years with my public platform, whether it's with my books or my podcast, I'm always trying to think about simplification. How can you translate this idea for a busy person who doesn't feel as though they've got time, who feels that health is too confusing and they feel it's too complicated? How can I get through to that individual? That's what I've really enjoyed doing

my entire career as a doctor, but I also enjoy doing it through media platforms like this one. Well, I can't wait to learn from you today. And I would love to start by having you talk directly to the person that's listening and explain what could they experience if they really take to heart

everything you're about to pour into us? The research or experience as a physician, everything that you've learned in researching and writing six books, what could change about your life? I think people are going to find that they have more energy, more focus, more motivation, better physical health, better mental health, happiness, inner calm, better relationships. Because actually the key principles, the key ingredients to all of these things, they're really not as complicated as people think. Really? Yeah, in my view.

Because already the list, Dr. Chatterjee, I'm like, oh my God, that's a lot. I don't even know if I can remember all this. So like, it's really not that complicated. Yeah, well, through this conversation, hopefully people will learn it's, yes, I'm not saying change is easy, but it can be simple, right? If you understand the key ingredients to change and you start applying them into your daily life. I'm a busy guy. Look, I'm a dad.

I've got two children. I help care for my elderly mother who lives five minutes away from me. I have a busy job. I know what it's like to feel busy and feel as if you don't have time to do the things that you want to do, but there is always a way to make time. I've done it for years with my patients, and I hope to show your audience, Mel, on this program today that they can also do it.

Well, I'm excited because here's what I know. The person that is listening right now, whether they've taken you and me on a walk with them or were sitting in the car with them or at their house or at work, or the person that received this conversation from a friend, they actually found the time because they care about their health.

And I'm sure as you're listening, you probably feel the same way I do, which is I'm so, even though I sit down with world renowned experts like you, I'm like, wait a minute, should I do keto? Am I supposed to fast? Like, am I exercising? Am I weight training? Am I sleeping? am I meditating, do I get my morning light in?

And it becomes so overwhelming that I think it's easy to start and then feel discouraged. And so maybe where we should start is, as a doctor, what are just the most common health struggles that you hear over and over from your patients and from your global audience? I think these days people are struggling with fatigue. They don't have energy. They're struggling with motivation. They can't sleep. They're feeling chronically stressed.

This is affecting their physical health, their weight, the way that they feel about themselves. It's also impacting their mental wellbeing, how they see themselves, how they see the world around them. But what a lot of people don't realize, Mel, is that the health landscape in the United States, in the UK, and frankly, most countries around the world has dramatically changed over the past 20 or 30 years. We used to see what I call acute problems. Okay?

So 30, 40 years ago, the medical system was really well set up for the problems that people came in with. So you'd come in and say, Hey, doctor, I've got a cough, I've got a fever, I'm bringing up a lot of sputum. And the doctor would see you for 10 or 15 minutes, examine you, give you a diagnosis, give you a pill and say, take this three times a day for seven days. And hey, presto, seven days later, your problem's gone away. Right. I call that a Z-Pak, right?

Exactly. You got like, I need antibiotics doc. Yeah. And it worked beautifully well for those kinds of problems. But today Mel, 80 to 90% of what we as medical doctors see is in some way related to our collective modern lifestyles. Okay. Now let me be really clear.

I am not putting blame on anyone. The person who's listening right now, I am not putting blame on you. I understand that life is tough, that people feel stressed, they don't have the energy. I do understand all those things. At the same time, we have to understand that these modern lives and the way in which we're leading them is resulting in us being sick. Okay?

And so I was very much trained the model where you try and diagnose a patient when they come in and give them a treatment, which is usually a pharmaceutical treatment. Now that can have value. But what a lot of people still don't realize is that if you make changes in four key areas of your life, you can have a profound impact on so many different aspects of your health. And those four things are what I call the four pillars. Food, movement, sleep, and relaxation. So let me just make sure the person got exactly what you said. So you're saying that the landscape of health and medicine

has changed dramatically in the last 20 years and that you used to, 20 years ago, have a situation where people would come in with an acute illness or problem or health challenge. You address it, we're good, we're back on track. What you're seeing now is the impact of how we are living and the stress that we are feeling and the foods that we're not actually addressing the root cause or potentially addressing four more simple things

that are within our control that would have a positive impact on you and your life no matter what you're facing. So like if the person listening has a cancer diagnosis, if the person listening is dealing with a metabolic disorder, or early onset of diabetes. These four pillars that you're talking about are still things that as a medical doctor you're like, let's just start here in addition to everything else. Mel, I've been a medical doctor for over 23 years. I've seen tens of thousands of patients,

and I just cannot emphasize this enough. Ask yourself, which of these four pillars do I need the most work in? Food, movement, sleep, or relaxation? And no matter what it is that you're dealing with right now, you're going to ask us, let's just talk about food, movement, sleep, and relaxation. Yeah. Now, Mel, there's a key point here. Okay. So when we talk about our lifestyle, we often talk about it through the lens of prevention. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

You know, it's important to pay attention to our lifestyle. We want to prevent getting sick in the future. Now, I agree with that, but what people forget, or they miss, or they don't understand is that lifestyle can be part of the treatment as well. Hold on. I got to make sure that we highlight that. So your lifestyle and some of the changes you can make starting today can be part of the treatment for any health issue and it's part of the roadmap for you feeling better,

lowering your stress and being healthier. Yeah. You mentioned a few different conditions there. You even mentioned cancer, right? Yes. Let's be really clear on this. I'm not saying that it's only lifestyle. Right. You may be under an oncologist and be undergoing treatments, but even if you are, paying attention to your lifestyle is going to help you manage the process of undergoing that treatment. Okay, I love this because you're basically saying that food, movement, sleep and rest

are medicine. 100%. They're 100% medicine. The problem is we're not taught to look at medicine in that way. But I've been using those four pillars as medicine for many, many years. And Mel, I had the great fortune to do this on a big scale back in 2015. Back in 2015, I got my own BBC One primetime series called Doctor in the House. And I basically lived alongside

families for four to six weeks who were sick. They were already sick. They already had a diagnosis. They were already under doctors and on medication. And in every single case, I either helped them reverse their condition or significantly improve it using lifestyle. So, and I'll tell you what happened. There was a lady with type two diabetes. I helped her put that into remission in just 30 days. What, using food, movement, sleep and rest? Using these four pillars, okay.

I helped a lady with panic attacks, reduce them by 80% in just six weeks. I had a lady with menopausal symptoms who didn't want to take hormones and we've vastly reduced them in just six weeks using these four pillars, fibromyalgia, irritable bowel syndrome. I did all of that on prime time television to show people that actually it's not about blame. This is the key thing here. When you mentioned lifestyle, some people will get defensive, go, what are you saying? I did this to myself.

No, no, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that your health is a combination of a number of factors. Yes, your genetics for sure, that plays a role, but also the way you're living your life. And often you haven't been intentional about the way you're living your life. So you end up at some point with a set of symptoms. But it doesn't mean that the only solution for those symptoms is a pharmaceutical drug. It may be.

It may be part of the solution. But a lot of the time you can actually reverse these problems if you change your lifestyle. And for me, the simplest way I managed to help my patients with that is through the lens of these four pillars. I love that. Because I can remember this food, movement, sleep and rest. And it's almost like a simple checklist. So let's go through each one of the four pillars.

What do you mean by food? How do we turn it into health? How do we turn it into medicine? How do we use it to help us be healthier, even as you're saying, like actually reverse some of the symptoms or health things that we're challenged with. Yeah. So one of the things I've got to make really clear is that there's no one right diet for every single person.

I don't want to hear that. I want you to make this very simple, Dr. Josh. I will make it simple. Okay. At the same time, Mel, I think when we believe there is one true diet that all of us should be eating, I don't think it simplifies it for us. I think it complicates it, and the reason it complicates it, and one of the biggest problems in health and wellness today is the confusion that exists.

I feel it. I especially feel it around what exactly to eat. You know what I mean? Like as a woman versus a man, not in my 50s versus my 30s, I need a certain amount of protein. What kind of protein? Like should I be fasting? Should I not be fasting?

Should I have electrolytes? You see what I'm saying? So when I talk about simplification, if you overly simplify, you end up confusing people. Okay. So I want to simplify as far as I possibly can, but then I also want to give the listener a bit of responsibility. Got it. The most important principle when it comes to food is as much as you possibly can, have minimally processed foods as close to its natural form as possible.

And so what does that mean? If you were to explain that to an eight- possible. And so what does that mean? If you were to explain that to an eight-year-old, what does that mean? I say, listen, let's think about one ingredient foods. Okay? So foods that don't have a barcode because they naturally are one ingredient. So an avocado doesn't have an ingredient list. It's one ingredient, right? A piece of fruit doesn't have an ingredient list, right?

And so for a lot of my patients for years, Mel, I've been asking them to look at food labels, okay? And people are shocked at what happens when they look at food labels. That's the starting point, I think, for everyone is as much as you can, because when you start eating more and more minimally processed food, your hunger signals will naturally start to take care of themselves. So if you're having lots of highly processed food and potato chips and the modern food environment basically, people are hungry all the time.

Why are we hungry all the time? If we're like eating mac and cheese and fish and chips or like chicken nuggets or we're just kind of doing dinner out of a box or we're ordering it to go. Why does that make us hungry? Because it plays havoc with our hormones, it plays havoc with our blood sugar. So a lot of the things we're eating these days will spike our blood sugar very quickly, which also means it's going to come down very quickly. So let's say, for example, you start the day with a bowl of sugary cereal, which is really,

really common. Okay. For example, you start the day with a bowl of sugary cereal, which is really, really common. Okay? Now, depending on which one you eat, but most of them pretty much fall into this category, you're eating it and you feel full afterwards and your blood sugar has started to go up pretty rapidly. Maybe after about two hours, it hits its peak. Yep.

Then it starts to crash. Okay? And then when it starts to crash, it's not just a hunger issue, it's a stress issue, okay? What do you mean by that? What I mean by that is let's say you have your bowl of sugary cereal at seven o'clock in the morning. Yep.

And you think, yeah, that's going to last me till lunchtime. And then at 9.30 or 10 o'clock, whilst you're at the office, you're like, why am I so hungry? Like I've already eaten. Yes, I'm like cruising through the kitchen. But there's a desperation. It's not like just a bit of hunger that you can deal with. It's not how I need to eat something. People go for an extra coffee, the vending machine, whatever it might be. It's often because their blood sugar has started to drop rapidly. Now, when your blood sugar drops rapidly, think about it through an evolutionary lens. That was a threat to survival a few hundred thousand years ago, right? If your blood sugar is dropping rapidly.

Right. You don't just feel hungry, it elevates stress hormones like adrenaline and cortisol. So it really is a stressor on the body. That makes sense. So if instead of that, for example, you had some eggs and some avocado, these kind of one ingredient foods, you'll find that it's less likely to happen. Yeah, sometimes your blood sugar will still go up, but it's a bit more gentle. Well, you know what's interesting about everything that you're saying is you say sugary cereal.

And I think the mistake that I used to make for years is I would think about the actual like Captain Crunch or the stuff that is marketed typically to kids, that even in the marketing, you know, it is sugary. But when I started to do, as you're saying, like flip it over and there's 32 grams of sugar in a bowl of cereal and you're like, what? And so it's kind of hidden in there.

And I think that's also part of the thing that I didn't realize and a lot of us don't realize and I love that you're not blaming us because we fall for the marketing and then we don't look at the actual ingredient list. I had a patient once, he was in his early 40s and he came in to see me and he had a bit of weight around his belly. He was struggling in the day with his mood and he said, Doc, you know, I always feel like eating and there's all kinds of things going on. But in essence, he was starting his day with sugary cereal.

And I could track his day and his mood and his energy and his fatigue and his focus. And I thought, I'm pretty certain that the way he starts his day is impacting the rest of his day and he doesn't realize this. Okay. So we did an experiment. I said, okay, you've been starting your days for years with this sugary bowl of cereal and you've read the marketing, you think it's healthy. Would you be interested in doing something that I call eat dinner for breakfast?"

And he said, what do you mean? I said, what do you have for dinner? He goes, well, you know, I like a good dinner. So he was pescatarian male and he would eat salmon and roasted vegetables in the evenings. I said, okay, could you make extra in the evening and then have the leftovers for breakfast? He goes, well, yeah, I could do that. I haven't done that before. I said, this is just an experiment.

And this is a big principle of my entire approach, Mel. I offer them to my patients as experiments, not as prescriptions. What I want to do is inspire that patient to go, hey, listen, you know what it feels like to start your day like this. What does it feel like for you when you start your day with something else? So then for the next week, he literally did this. It would be often in the morning, he'd have salmon and roasted vegetables like sweet potatoes and Brussels sprouts, whatever.

One ingredient. One ingredient foods. The salmon protein, which is satiating, okay, can keep you full for longer. And he came in to see me a few weeks ago, he goes, Dr. Chachi, I feel like a completely different person, right? I'm better at work now. I have more concentration, more focus. I'm not actually hungry till 2pm, right? And this is the thing people don't realize about hunger. People think they're not eating enough. They're saying you're eating the wrong thing, which is

making you hungry. So literally that one change for him taught him how important it was to start his day with these one ingredient foods. And then what's so important about that, Mel, is that he is paying attention to how he feels. So then what happens later is that he wants to continue doing that, not because I asked him to, because something else has happened. He has felt the difference. And that's always been my approach. You can take alcohol, right?

Or caffeine, the sort of things people are always struggling with. My job with a patient has never, ever been to tell them, you must give up alcohol or you must give up smoking or whatever it might be. My job has always been to show that person what impact it's having. So I think one of the reasons I've always had really good compliance with my patients is I don't talk down to them. I see them as equal partners and I say, hey, listen, I think this is what's going on. Why don't you experiment this way and see how that feels?

Does that all make sense, Mel? Not only does it make sense, you've actually handed the power back to us and you have also activated this internal drive to want to feel better. And I would love for you to share your framework around cravings, because you have this 3F framework when it comes to craving. One of the reasons that people struggle, Mel, to make changes that last is because too often they try and change the behavior without understanding the role that behavior plays in their life. So let's talk about that through the lens of sugar.

But you could just as easily apply that around alcohol or three hours doom scrolling Instagram in the evening, whatever it might be. Okay. So let's take a typical scenario that I've seen thousands of times in my practice and maybe you've experienced before Mel. I've not been to your house, so I don't know if you've experienced this, but a lot of people when they're trying to reset their relationship with sugar, find that they can be really good in the day.

Yes. Yes. But somehow at 9pm on the sofa with Netflix on. They're like, I really feel like ice cream. That's where I just screw it all up, Dr. Chatterjee. I can be so good all day. And then I'm like, why didn't I go to bed earlier? If I had just gone to bed at 830 and started reading, I wouldn't have eaten half a bag of this salty buttery popcorn.

Yeah. It's so important. And there's a couple of things to say that. First of all, the brain is an associative organ, right? So we associate certain behaviors in certain locations, right? So if you've got a habit for 10 years of having ice cream on the sofa, while watching TV, yeah, you're right. Had you gone to bed or moved to a different location in your house, if you have the room, you'll probably find that the behavior naturally starts to change

because it often is associated with that particular location, right? I don't know if you've experienced that before, but many people have. But the 3F framework does something really powerful for people. It helps them understand why do I keep on doing this. Okay. It helps them understand why do I keep on doing this. So let me go through those three F's. The three F's are feel, feed, and find. Feel, feed, and find.

Yeah, and then walk people through it. Okay, so for the person listening right now who thinks that this applies to them, I want them to imagine that they're on their sofa in the evening and they feel the urge for ice cream. Okay. I want you to take a pause just for a few seconds before you go and open the fridge and that spoon's in your mouth. Take a pause. You know we're standing in front of the fridge with the thing and the spoon. The thing is I've been there before myself, so I'm not doing this from a point of lecturing or judging, right? I've been there and I know that you can change

your life. You can absolutely change your behaviors if you know why the behavior is there. Okay? So you take a pause and before you eat it, you say, what am I feeling? That's the first F. Is this physical hunger or is this emotional hunger? Oh, yeah. You know what? I had a full meal one hour ago. I'm actually not hungry. How do you know the difference, though? Because I'm a good talker, so I can be like, I think I'm actually hungry.

I think I need a little... Well, you know the difference by practicing. You don't know the difference by suddenly doing it once and going, oh, no, no, I really am hungry. No, it's all these things. We need to develop the skill by turning inwards. Okay. Okay.

So we have to ask ourselves regularly. It's not as hard as you think. I've done this with thousands of patients. The most important thing is when you create that pause, so you're literally creating a little gap between the stimulus, the desire for ice cream and the response. So you ask yourself, what am I feeling? And you might go, yeah, well, I shouldn't really be hungry because I had a huge meal. I'm a little stressed. I had a row with my partner. The children's bedtime took too long. I've been on zoom calls

all day and I feel a bit yucky. This is a bit of time for me. Okay, no problem. You now have done the most important thing now, which is you're starting to develop this self-awareness Yeah, of why you're going to that baby then go and eat it I know a problem with someone eating it as long as I've done the first F Okay Now the next time you're on the sofa at 9 p.m. I want you to go to the second F So you go through the first step again. What am I feeling? What am I feeling? Yeah, the second of his feeds How does food?

Feed that feeling. Ah, okay. I feel stressed when I have ice cream. In the short term, at least, I feel less stressed. Oh, that's why I'm going to ice cream. I'm not actually hungry. Okay. So you start to build up that awareness. Oh, I've been on Zoom calls all day. I feel a bit lonely. I've not had any connection with another human being today. lonely. I've not had any connection with another human being today. I feel a bit less lonely when I have some ice cream. Okay. And you start to build up that self awareness. And if you want to go and have it, sure, go ahead and have it. The next time you come, you go through the first two Fs. So first F feel, second F feed, then you go to the third F. Find. Now that I know the feeling, now that I know how sugar feeds the feeling, can I now find

an alternative behavior to feed that same feeling? Okay, so what does that look like? Oh, I feel stressed. Sugar helps me feel less stressed. Well, what else could I do to make me feel less stressed? Oh, I love yoga. Okay, well, I like yoga. Maybe I can put YouTube on and do a 10 minute yoga sequence from YouTube. Maybe you're feeling lonely

because you've been on Zoom calls all day or maybe your family are away or you're in a hotel room, right? Okay, well, instead of going to sugar to feed the loneliness, maybe you could phone a friend. Maybe you can phone one of your parents if you're lucky enough to have one of them still alive. If you have not had any time to yourself all day and sugar's your little treat to yourself. Yes. I think that's a big one for a lot of us. Especially if you're constantly stressed, you're caring for other people.

Yeah. What else can you do? Well, you could run yourself a bath and nourish yourself in a different way. So this 3F framework can be applied to sugar, to alcohol, to social media, to online pornography, frankly to anything Mel, because it does something very powerful. It creates a gap between the stimulus and the response. And then you do the most important thing, which is you start to understand yourself better. Mel, this is why we're so confused in the world at the moment with health information,

right? We keep thinking that there's an expert out there who knows what's right for me. The person who's eating too much sugar in the evening, right? Let's say you're trying to stop ice cream in the evening on your sofa. Yep. Mel, you don't need another book on sugar, right? Because I'm probably going to put it down anyway and go get the popcorn and ice cream. But most people who are trying to cut back on sugar, they don't need another book telling

them, oh, sugar is going to affect your teeth. It's going to put on weight. You're going to have low energy. It's going to increase your risk of diabetes. No, I would say in the world today, we have so many health podcasts, so many health books, so many online articles. We've got more information than ever before. Yet despite that, our physical health is getting worse, our mental health is getting worse.

So the case I'm making this new book mail is that we don't need more external knowledge necessarily. We need more internal knowledge, more self-awareness, more insights. That's how you change your life for good. You listen to experts like you mail or me, but then you put it through your own filter and go, does this work for me? Is this the right approach for me? And that's what I found to be the most useful thing throughout my entire career, Mel. The patients who've changed their life for good, somewhere along the line, it stopped being my plan and it became their plan. Oh, I love that.

It's such a key point, Mel. People will often ask me, well, are each of those three F's as important as the other? No, they're not. The most important F is the first F, feel. What am I feeling? I would say that's 80 to 90% of it. When you break the loop of this patterning of sofa, I want some ice cream, open the freezer, spoon in my mouth. Right? We've all been there now. Right? With that first step. Literally, since I've been in your house and I've met your wife and your kids, I can see you standing in your kitchen and imagine your wife coming in and being, what are you doing? On another note, like we don't have that stuff in the house because one of my principles that I've been

sharing with patients for years is try not to use up your willpower in the house. You have to use up your willpower as soon as you step out the front door these days. So in the UK, if you want to buy a coffee, you have to walk past the pastries, the pan of chocolats, the biscuits, whatever it might be. I have a rule that if I don't want to eat it, I don't bring it into the house. That makes it much easier. And I think that's a great rule for many people to think about. But that first F now, where you just start to understand yourself.

I've seen it with patients. It starts to change everything. You may not change it straight away, but I tell you within a week, you're coming there, you're on the server, you're thinking, wait a minute, I don't need this. I know what's going on here. And you feel the sense of control. Yeah. I read your new book recently, The Lethal Theory, and I love it. And in that book, you write a lot about control, okay? This base human need that we want to feel in control, why the 3Fs work so well and why listing to lots of external advice and not owning the advice for yourself

becomes problematic as you feel out of control. Yes. Right? When you can't decide between a low carb diet, a plant-based diet, a keto diet, a paleo diet, when you try them and you feel it doesn't work for you, but it worked for your best friends. Right. Or the people that are telling you to do it online. Yeah.

Yeah. You never think, well, you rarely think that the diet was the failure. You think you're the failure. Stop. That is something that everybody needs to hear. You don't think the diet was the failure, you think you're the failure. And that leads to guilt, shame, regrets. That leads and reinforces these feelings that I'm not good enough, okay?

I can't get the right plan for me. And sometimes I would argue that some people are better off having not started that diet than having started it, failed, and then feeling even worse than before they'd even started. I'm having this huge epiphany, Dr. Chatterjee, that I can't tell you how many or I've tried to manage more protein or I tried pescatarian. I've just been chasing one fad and one diet and one thing that I hear on the outside. And it's not to say that those changes don't work, but I'm realizing for the very first time listening to you right now that the key ingredient in all of those situations where I tried something and I felt like it failed for me or I couldn't stick to it, I don't have the willpower, this is too complicated, is that I didn't have the

most important ingredient that you're talking about right now, which is part of the first pillar of food, which is feel. I wasn't saying to myself, how is this making me feel? And I can tell you that I recently did this kind of like five-day protocol that I was just looking for some sort of reset to do, and it was this five day intermittent, you know, you're eating while you're doing it, fasting protocol, they send you a kit, and it was one of the hardest things I've ever done,

but the interesting thing that was different is that I was very much paying attention to how would I feel every day as I was doing it. And as I started to notice that my mood got better, I wasn't as hungry, I felt sharper in focus, it has made a change stick because of what you're talking about, which is, you know, when you start focusing on this first pillar of your health, really trying this

as an experiment and then going, how does this feel for me? That's the piece that actually will make it work. It's the biggest piece, right? It's not just doing it, it's doing it and then going, oh yeah, I'm noticing now that I'm feeling different. So let's say someone listens to your podcast MeloMind, right? And one, they hear an expert talking about the benefits of a plant-based diet. And the next week, they hear another well-credentialed expert talk about the benefits of a ketogenic diet. And the problem is people get confused, right? Because they're like, I'm only going to listen to experts. Oh, but here's the problem with that. You can have

well-credentialed experts from really good institutions saying two different things. Right? So how do you navigate that conflict and that confusion? The way you navigate it is by someone to trust yourself. Right? And so I say to people, when that's happened on my show before, I said, okay, both of them have got credentials, both of them have got research to back up what they're saying and

case studies. They could both be right for different people. So why don't you try one diet for four weeks and as you're trying it, pay attention. What's your energy like? What's your sleep like? What's your focus like? What's your guts like? What are your bowels like?

What is your bloating like? Okay. And you pay attention. Then for another four weeks, you try the other one's diet and you pay attention to those same things. You will very quickly realize, actually, you know what? I think at this stage in my life, because that's the other thing, things can change throughout your life.

At this stage in my life, I think this is probably the right approach for me. And it's life changing with people because it gives them the power. Like you write in your book, Mel, it's about control, right? Yes. Well, you know what? This gives you a sense of control. Totally. And what I love about this, and I'll just add this from my own experience, is I've always

felt this pull to want to be vegetarian or plant-based. And when I have tried it, I have felt so low energy and it has been a chore to get in the protein that I'm realizing as you're talking, that's why I've never done it. It's because I realized that I actually feel better on a different type of eating program and getting more lean protein from sources other than plant-based foods. And I have a question though, before we move on to the second pillar of movement, how long do I need to try something in the food pillar or a change in my diet and really paying attention to how am I feeling? Because I would imagine you change anything, whether it's your reading labels, one ingredient,

less sugar, that you will go through a withdrawal period. It will feel worse before it feels better. So what's your recommendation in the food pillar? For how long you would recommend us trying this thing, going, how do I feel? I would say a minimum of three weeks. Three weeks, okay. in the food pillar, for how long you would recommend us trying this thing? Going, how do I feel? I would say a minimum of three weeks. Three weeks, okay.

I would say three to four weeks, generally speaking, is the kind of time you want to be trying something for. It's enough time for your taste buds to start adapting to the new flavors. It's what people don't realize. If you're used to having a lot of sugary foods, for a few days, you're going to really miss them. You're going to really miss them. You're going to go through withdrawal. You have to go through that and come out the other side.

A key point, Mel, I want to make is that I'm not saying ignore external experts, right? I'm not saying that. You didn't say that. I'm saying that something's happened in society now with all this information where we put all of our faith in external experts at the expense of our self, okay? And I'm saying we need to bring up our own inner expertise as well. Yes, listen to the external experts, but also know that, hey, you know what? My life is unique. I've got unique pressures, unique stresses. What works for someone else may not work for me.

So again, I don't mean to confuse the issue. You're not actually, you're simplifying it. You're doing exactly what you said. And it is very clear to me, food is medicine. Food is part of your plan and a required part of the pillar for you to feel less stress, to have more energy, to be happier, to be healthier, and you're the expert. And so take the things that you feel called to try that you know are true, or you trust, and do it for three weeks and see how you feel. It's like fasting now. Fasting becomes this really controversial topic, right?

Should I fast? Should I not fast? Is fasting better for men? Is it better, you know, is it not so good for women? People are getting confused, right? But even the fundamental premise is fasting good or bad. It's the wrong question. What's the right question?

The right question is for who and in which context. The two most important questions we can ask ourselves whenever we're hearing advice. For some people, fasting is a game changer. If you have been carrying excess weight for a while, if you have talked to diabetes, if you've been ingesting excess calories for 10 plus years, a form of fasting that suits you and your life may be game changing. Yes. If, on the other hand, you're underweight, you have an eating disorder, which you are suffering from or recovering from, well fasting might not be the best solution for you. But

these days online, we want to say, is it good or bad? It's like, well, it's neither. It can be amazing, but it's an option that you may want to play around with. I cannot wait to jump into how you're going to simplify movement as the second pillar for our health. But this feels like a good point to hit the pause button so we can hear a word from our amazing sponsors. And as you take a listen to our sponsors, make sure to share this with somebody in your life that you care about because there's no doubt in my mind that this information that

we're talking about today, we all need to hear it. So thanks for sharing it. Don't go anywhere because Dr. Chatterjee and I, we all need to hear it. So thanks for sharing it. Don't go anywhere because Dr. Chatterjee and I, we are going to be waiting for you after this short break. So stay with us. Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. Today, you and I have the honor of getting to sit down

and spend time with and be together with the amazing Dr. Chatterjee. His new book is Make Change That Lasts, and we are talking about the simple things you need to focus on in order to be healthier and happier. So Dr. Chatterjee, one of the things that I've seen is that you have a five-minute strength training program that you do every day. And I hugged you when you came in and I'll tell you, you're pretty jacked compared to when I saw you last time. So what is this five-minute strength training thing that you do, Dr. Chatterjee? This is one of the most important things I do each day and not only for my health.

I would say it's also one of the most important things I do for my happiness and my relationships. Remember at the start, Mel, I said that health, happiness and relationships are not as separate as people might think. Okay? So what do I do? And I think it's a useful way of helping people understand the key principles of habit formation. So for over five years now, I've been doing several things each morning, but one thing that I rarely miss on is a five minute strength workout. Okay, so what does

this look like? Okay, I go to bed early and I wake up early. That's just what works for me. Right? But I wake up around five o'clock. Again, I'm not saying anyone else has to. It's what works for me. My wife doesn't want to get out of bed till seven or half seven. Right? So we have found what works for us. Okay? So I come downstairs and I do happen to meditate. That's the first thing I tend to do, but that's not relevant for this part of our conversation. I go into my kitchen and one thing I do is I love to make coffee. Okay? So I weigh out my coffee and I pour the water in, into the French press, and I put a timer

on for five minutes. In those five minutes, Mel, I don't go on email, I don't go on Instagram, I don't go on the news. What I do in those five minutes is I have a strength workout in my kitchen, in my pajamas. What do you do? Well, I do a variety of things. It started off being body weights. I do some press ups, some calf raises, some squats.

I just do a little circuit in my kitchen and then I get the gorgeous reward of a hot cup of coffee just the way I like it. Wait, so you literally do squats, you do push upsups, you do calf raises, you're going up on your tippy toes. Yeah. There's a video on YouTube that I've worked off my five minute kitchen workouts. These days, I do a couple of other things. I have a kettlebell and a dumbbell in my kitchen.

So sometimes I'll do some kettlebell swings. Sometimes I'll do some bicep curls, whatever I feel like. But the point is, I do that five minute strength workout every day. I even did it this morning in my hotel room here in Boston, Mel. Okay. And I'll explain why it's so important. It's what I would call my keystone habits. It's a habit that when I do it, it makes it infinitely more likely.

I'm going to do other healthy choices in my day. Right. more likely I'm going to do other healthy choices in my day, right? Every single day, Mel, we're all asking ourselves two questions. Can I trust myself? Can I rely on myself? What my five-minute kitchen workout does to me every single morning is it shows me that no matter how busy my work is, no matter what my wife needs from me, what my children need from me, what my elderly mother needs from me, I still found five minutes for myself. It shows me I can trust myself. I can rely on myself. Now people might go, you know, strength work every day. Do you not vary it up? No, I don't vary it up, right? Especially when I started. No. Do we vary up tooth brushing?

No. Right. I hope now every single person listening right now brushes their teeth for two minutes in the morning and two minutes in the evening. Well, you know what's interesting about brushing your teeth, and I'm glad you just brought it up, is I just saw somebody else talking about it. I can't remember who it is, and it's a fabulous example, that if you go and don't brush your teeth today, you'll have bad breath, you'll notice, but most people around you won't notice. But if you go day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year for five

years and you never brush your teeth, some of them are going to fall out. You're going to have like snaggletooth mouth. Like you're going to be horrible. And it's an illustration of something we know intellectually that the compounding nature of doing something every day actually builds in the negative or the positive dramatically. And your five-minute workout in the kitchen is just genius. First of all, you already taught us that the brain is an associative machine,

meaning it associates certain places and times of day with certain things. And so you're using that to your advantage. You also have set yourself up for success because you now have a kettle ball right there in the kitchen. You have also set yourself up with a stacking of this so that you start the coffee maker, which is something you're gonna do

regardless of how you feel. Doesn't matter how tired you are, whether or not you don't want to, you're gonna do it. And while the coffee's brewing, you don't care that you're not in the latest workout clothes. You don't need a fancy gym. There you are at 5.05 in the morning in your pajamas doing pushups on your kitchen floor

while your coffee's brewing. And it's an illustration of the daily tooth brushing. 100%. And with tooth brushing, the key point I want to make is that we don't apply those principles when it comes to changing our health, right? We make it so difficult and complicated. That's a theme throughout this conversation, Mel. How do we keep it simple?

If your audience, Mel, if the person listening to this episode right now, if you take nothing else from this conversation, but this idea that you're going to find one five minute action and you're going to do it at the same time every day, try it for the next seven days, I guarantee, like I literally guarantee because I've seen this tens of thousands of times, not only will you feel better, you will change the way you experience life, you will change the way you experience life, you will change the way you view yourself because you build up this momentum, you build up self-esteem, you become someone who can do what they say they're going to do.

Right? I had a patient, again, I'm going to bring this, make this really real because I imagine there'll be people listening, male who think, I'm busy, like I'm a nurse, I'm a teacher, I don't have time. Right. No, no, you do have time, right? I had a patient, 48-year-old guy, this is maybe 10 years ago, Mel, and he came in to see me with three common complaints, okay?

He's a little bit overweight. Yep. Okay, and he was pointing to his tummy as he came in. He had a bit of low moods and he had low energy. Okay. Okay. There's many things that can cause these things. I think the person listening is like, I know six people like that right now.

So please send them this conversation because you haven't been able to get them to take this seriously. Dr. Chatterjee can. So I spent a bit of time talking to him now. Yep. Trying to understand his life and his lifestyle. And there was quite a few things there. And I said to him, hey, listen, there's a few things in your lifestyle that I've identified

that I think could be responsible for all three of these things. Are you interested in me helping you change some of them? So I always have permission with my patients, right? I don't just give them advice, say, are you interested? He said, yeah, that'd be great. So I went through all kinds of options. He wasn't biting at any of them. He was like, nah, I don't think that's for me.

Don't think that's for me. When I said strength training, his eyes lit up now. Okay, so I'm meeting him where he's at. He's like, yeah, dog, you know, I used to do that at school as a teenager. I haven't done it in years. I've got busy with adult life, basically. Yeah.

I said, I think strength training is going to really help you. I think it's going to help you with your weight, your energy and your moods. He said, right, great. I want to do it. What shall I do? 45 minutes, three times a week in the gym. I said, yeah, that'll be fantastic. Great.

You know, he goes, right, I'm going to do it. I said, okay, here's an appointment for four weeks time. You go and do that. Come back in four weeks and we'll figure out how you're doing. Okay. So he goes away and I'm feeling pleased. I think, okay, cool. He's going to go and do that.

Four weeks later, Mellie comes back into my office and he walks in and his body language is a bit off. He's not making eye contact with me. I said, hey, how was the gym? You know, has it made a difference? He said, hey, doc, listen, I'm not being yet. Okay. Work's been really busy.

The gym's quite expensive. It's not really on my way to or from work. I've not actually gone yet. Oh, so now he feels terrible. He feels terrible. And I remember that case so well now because it was one of the most instrumental moments in my career. I never thought in that moment, he's not done what I've asked him to do. I thought, Rangan, you've clearly not given him advice that he feels is relevant in the context of his life.

So in that moment, I took my jacket off, okay, and I said, right, can I teach you some body weight exercises right here, right now? He said, sure. So I literally got down on the floor in my office and I was teaching him press ups, squats, calf raises. I was modifying them for his ability level. And I said, what do you think? Can you do that?

He goes, yeah, that's okay. I said, okay, what I want you to do is I want you to do this for five minutes, twice a week in your kitchen. And he looked at me, he said, what, 10 minutes a week? Is that it? I said, yeah, can you do that? He goes, that's easy. I said, okay, great.

You go and do that. I'll see you in four weeks. Okay, so he goes off. Four weeks later, okay, great. You go and do that. I'll see you in four weeks. Okay. So he goes off. Four weeks later, he comes back. He's almost dancing into the room. Okay. He comes to see me with a big smile on his face.

I said, Hey, how are you doing? He said, Doc, you asked me to do five minutes twice a week. It was so easy. I enjoyed it so much that I now do 10 minutes every evening whilst my dinner's getting ready in the kitchen. So I do 10 minutes, right? That changed his life now because when I asked him or when he felt he had to do 45 minutes three times a week in the gym, he did zero. When he felt he only had to do 10 minutes a week, he's now doing 10 minutes a day.

That's 70 minutes of strength training that then led to what I call the ripple effect. Over the next few weeks, he starts to go for a walk at lunchtime. He starts to cook a little bit better for himself. He starts to prioritize his bedtime. I saw him a few years ago, Mel. This is maybe five years after we started. He's now meditating each day. If I had brought up meditation to him 10 years ago, he would have left me out of the room. Small changes done consistently lead to big outcomes. I've seen it time and time again. And what I love about what you're teaching us, and I'm sure I speak for you as you're

listening to Dr. Chad or G2 right now now is that first of all, I'm like, okay, how can I get you to be my doctor? Because I would like a doctor that takes their coat off and then shows me how to do five-minute interventions. But it all comes back to this simple principle. There are four pillars. We've unpacked food and the importance of how you feel and experimenting and one ingredient stuff, now you have simplified movement and you have made the case that just introducing five minutes of movement, whether it's a walk or something in your kitchen, how that changes the course of your life and how you've seen it happen in your patients.

Honestly, if your audience take literally nothing else from this conversation, I want them to take this. Find a five-minute action, something you've thought about before, something you feel drawn to. I don't care what it is, journaling, meditation, yoga, pull-ups, star jumps, doesn't matter. If five minutes feels too much, make it one minute, right? But start somewhere and do it for at least seven days. And if you don't feel differently about your life, sure, ignore everything I have to say. Well, you and I both know, of course you're going to feel different.

I know they are going to feel different. Of course. But you have to do it. Inspiration without action does not lead to change. This is what I see these days, Mel. People listen to your show, they listen to my show, they see a positive Instagram post and a really inspirational meme and they heart it. They think they've done something, they haven't done anything.

They move their thumb about half a millimeter on their phone. That's great. Don't get me wrong. But you need to take the inspiration and figure out well How am I going to take action in my life? And you just gave us the actual only way it gets done because most of us make a mistake in that moment where we hurt this video about health and we say Okay I'm gonna go to the gym three times a week for 45 minutes and then you don't because it's hard to do that.

And it's actually more complicated than you think to find the time to get the clothes, to get into the gym, to figure out what the workout is. And what you're saying is there's a totally different way to go from inspiration to action. Make it as easy as hell. Make it five minutes long. Find a trigger like making coffee that you don't even think about. And set up the environment with one simple thing so that you have the things you need right there

and try it for seven days and you'll be shocked. Yeah, you'll be shocked. And what people don't realize, because I've seen it with so many patients, is they underestimate simplicity, right? I go to the gym sometimes, right? I'll lift things at other times, but some weeks I don't. But I never miss my five minute morning action. It's a promise I made to myself. And why do I think that helps your health, your happiness

and your relationships? Because when you make that commitment to yourself, when you make that promise and you keep it, Mel, you do something so powerful, right? It builds you up inside. You become a human being who knows your self-worth and you take that to your relationships. You take it to your work. You take it to every other aspect of your life. Well, I can't wait until you teach us how to make the third pillar, which is sleep. Okay.

Something that's easy using these principles because as a medical doctor and literally being Europe's doctor and the tens of thousands of patients that you've treated, it is really sad and troubling how many people are not getting enough sleep, how they're having trouble falling asleep, staying asleep, not dropping into deep sleep. And so can you share with us how you say a good night's sleep starts in the morning and what we need to do to make this easy? When people think about sleep, the first thing they go to is what are they doing before they go to bed?

Now, whilst that is important, what we don't realize is that a good night's sleep starts first thing in the morning. How you start your morning off. Now, if you're able to get natural light first thing in the morning, it's fantastic for your overall well-being. It helps set your circadian rhythm. This is your biological clock. Every single cell in your body has a clock.

One of the key drivers of that clock is exposure to light. If you expose yourself to bright, natural light ideally, but I appreciate also that depending on where you live in the world, certainly in the UK at the moment, you're not getting bright natural lights in the morning. So yes, put all the lights on at home, get them as bright as you possibly can. That actually helps you sleep better in the evening. There's some studies which show us that if you meditate or practice mindfulness first thing in the morning, that can also help you sleep better at night. So there's many ways that I want people to think about sleep, but what you do first thing

in the morning can absolutely impact your sleep in the evening. Now why should people care about sleep? It's not just about energy. Yes, energy is of course something that we all want. We want the energy to do the things that we want to do in life. But here's what happens when you sleep deprived. Your mood goes down. You're less empathetic. You're less compassionate. You find it harder to resist temptation. If you sleep five and a half hours each night compared to seven and a half hours each night,

one study showed on average you're eating 22% more the following day in terms of calories. Okay, so think about that. Five days of extreme sleep deprivation will lead to a whole extra one day's worth of calories going through your mouth. Okay? So I've helped male some patients lose weight in a sustainable way, not by focusing on their diet, by focusing on their sleep.

This goes back, Mel, to what I said right at the start. Think about these four pillars and ask yourself, which one of these four pillars do I need the most work in? Right? Too often we focus on our favorite pillar. If your diet is 85% good, moving it from 85% to 90% whilst you're only sleeping five hours a night, ain't going to move the needle. If you can bring up your sleep from five hours to even five and a half hours, again, it's not about perfection. It's

not about either eight hours or nothing. If you can actually get 20 minutes more, 30 minutes more, there will be a physiological difference in your body mail the following day. And so it's important for your physical health, your mental wellbeing. Life feels different when you've had a good night's sleep. Okay? So in terms of what people can do, I mentioned first thing in the morning, okay? Get light exposure.

And we have so many people around the world that write in when they hear about light exposure in the morning that say, well, I have to leave for work before the sun's even up. So how do you do that if it's raining or you have a job where you're already starting work and the sun hasn't risen? Yeah. So it doesn't always have to be the sun to be clear. You still get a lot of natural light on an overcast day or on a cloudy day. Okay? But yes, I appreciate we all have different work schedules. So if you can't do that, you know, put the lights on in your house. If you want, you can go on Amazon. You can buy like these bright lux lights. They're not

that expensive. You can have those on in your house, right? Do what you can Amazon, you can buy like these bright lux lights, they're not that expensive. You can have those on in your house, right? Do what you can. If you can't do it first thing in the morning, maybe at 10 a.m. when you have a little coffee break at work, can you take your coffee and go to the balcony or go out the front door and be outside and get some of that light into your eyes? Okay? There's many ways.

And let's be honest, Mel, some things you may not be able to. Correct. And that's okay. Yes. Right? Fine. There are other ways to improve your sleep. You know, we can talk about five or 10 different tips.

You're probably not going to be able to do them all. Well, let's talk about that. How can someone create an evening routine that leads to better sleep if they're doing this stuff in the morning that's easy? The most important thing about an evening routine when it comes to sleep is the fact that you need a routine. You have kids, Mel. They're older than mine.

I have kids. I'm guessing, and again, I don't know this. I've not met your children, right? But I'm guessing when your kids were younger, what you didn't do before bed was put all the lights up as loud as possible, get the music blaring, give them loads of sugar, and then try and get them to sleep. No, we did not do that. We had a whole routine.

Right. We as adults are no different, right? With children, what do we do? We dim the lights, we lower our tone. We might adults are no different, right? With children, what do we do? We dim the lights, we lower our tone, we might read them a story, we create the environment that is conducive to winding down. One of the most toxic things about the modern world is this separation between work life and home life has vanished. With emails, with social media, with whatever it is.

We can still be working in our bedroom, in bed, and then somehow wonder why we can't fall asleep 10 minutes later when we've just had a stressful work email. I think the most important thing for many people, and certainly it has been for me, is one hour before bed, I make a mental switch in my head. I'm now on wind down time. Okay. So for me, and again, I want to be clear, Mel, everyone's got a unique life, right? So what works for me may not work for someone else, but what I do one hour before bed, as I make sure my laptop's closed, I will not do a work email in the one hour before bed,

barring an exceptional situation. Okay? Let's be honest, sometimes stuff is going on that you want to handle. But by and large, I won't do that. I have educated my family over the last few years, and it was hard at first, but everyone understands now that in the evening, past one hour before bed, I don't want to talk about finances. I don't want to talk about household items. My mom, my brother who lived nearby, they now know if it's something to do with mom's care, unless it's urgent, I don't want to know about it in the one hour before bed. By educating the world around me, I have a wind down for that one hour.

What do I do? I'll try to be off my screens. I'm usually pretty good. I'm not perfect. You know, for me, if I bring my phone into my bedroom, I look at it. So I live in a house. So what my wife and I try and do is we make a commitment to each other that we're going to leave our phones in the kitchen to charge. This is just like food. You basically said, if I don't want to eat it, I don't have it in the house. If you don't want to look at your phone in the bedroom, then you don't have it in the bedroom.

You're just making it easy. I'm not a superhuman. Well, you're following your principles. You make it easy. Yeah. Just because I write about this stuff and talk about it on my podcast each week doesn't mean I'm any less human than anyone else. I can't resist looking at that phone.

You know, I'll tell you something. As I'm sitting here listening to you and I'm nodding along and I'm thinking, I have to do this five minute thing. I have to do this five minute thing because I have completely fallen off the entire category of movement because I have been in the middle of this crazy book launch and all this travel. And I've been too tired and things have been so chaotic and I haven't been able to do my normal thing. And you're reminding me

that there is still always five minutes. There is still always something you can do. And you're also reminding me that this very important principle, I'm not failing. The routine that I do in my normal schedule is failing me right now. And that's a liberating way to look at this. I could listen to you all day. And I know we have a lot more to cover, but I want to take a quick pause so we can hear

a word from our sponsors. And while you're listening to our sponsors, share this episode with the people that you care about and don't you dare go anywhere because Dr. Chatterjee has so many more things to share with you and tips and ways to make positive change stick. Stay with us, we'll be back after a short break. Dr. Chatterjee

Dr. Chatterjee Dr. Chatterjee Dr. Chatterjee Dr. Chatterjee Dr. Chatterjee Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. And today you and I are talking about simple changes that transform your health with the amazing Dr. Chatterjee.

So Dr. Chatterjee, my next question is, why do you need the fourth pillar relax if we've already got the third pillar of sleep? Because it's subtly different. Relax is speaking to the issue of stress. Okay? So we know that 80 to 90% of what comes in to a doctor these days is in some way related to stress. So 80 to 90% of the health issues, the ailments, the symptoms that people are struggling with is related

to stress. Yeah. And a few years ago, the World Health Organization had on their homepage that stress is the health epidemic of the 21st century. Well, we actually had Dr. Aditi Nurukkar on the show, And she said that in her research, that stress is the single consistent cause of illness as well. Like if you look at the clustering of things that cause it, it's always present. And it's the one thing that is in your control in terms of your ability to mitigate against it. So when you say relaxation, you're also talking about the

importance of de-stressing and finding times to relax. Like, what do you mean by that? I do. And also these four pillars, they all feed each other, right? You know, because a lack of sleep is a stressor on the body. Yes. Eating lots of junk food that's causing inflammation in your body is a stressor on the body. Yes. Eating lots of junk food that's causing inflammation in your body is a stressor on the body. Not moving at all is a stressor on the body.

But what people will find is when you start looking at your life through this framework of these four pillars, you can start wherever you want. It will start to make a difference in the others. They all start to feed each other. And when I'm talking about stress, and when I talk to my patients about stress, I help them understand what stress actually is. Dr. Chatterjee, what is stress? Stress is basically your body's response when it wants to keep you safe, okay? When it thinks

you're in danger, in essence. So I always explain this to my patients now. I say, listen, what is the stress response? Imagine it's a hundred thousand years ago, and you're in your hunter-gatherer community, in your tribe doing your thing. Okay? And then, whilst you're doing your thing,

you notice a wild predator approaching the camp. In an instant, your stress response kicks into gear. Several things happen in your body when that happens. What happens? Your blood sugar starts to go up, so it can deliver more glucose to your brain. Your blood pressure starts to go up, so more oxygen can go around your body and get to your brain. Your blood becomes more prone to clotting. Why? Oh, if that lion or that predator was to cut you, instead of bleeding to death, your blood's

going to clot, which is going to save your life. You're amygdala. Your emotional brain goes on to high alert. Why? Because you want it to be on high alert. You want to be vigilant. You want to hear every pinprick. These are all appropriate responses when you really are in physical danger. The problem today, Mel, is that so many of us are having our stress responses

activated not to wild predators. By email. But to the state of our daily lives. Our email inboxes, our to-do lists, the three social media accounts we're trying to keep up to date with, the news headlines. In a very similar way, our stress response has been activated. So those four things I mentioned, helpful in the short term, problematic in the long term. So blood glucose going up to help you run away, brilliant. If that's happening day in, day out, that will cause weight gain, fatigue, and type

2 diabetes. So are you also saying though, that if we're eating a ton of processed foods and a ton of sugar, and we're not getting sleep, and we're not moving our bodies, that the lack of those things also creates that physiological condition in our body. Yeah, it's a stressor. Stress is a massive, massive issue that we don't think about enough. And a lot of people don't realize this key, key point, Mel, that I have only realized in the last few years, which is this idea that we see the world through the state of our nervous system. Right? So if you're chronically stressed, and I would bet Mel that a lot of your audience, even

if they're on a walk right now and listening to me and you talk, a lot of them would probably identify as being chronically stressed. Some of the recent studies I've seen is that up to 80% of people in the United States are in a medical state of chronic stress. Yeah. So think about the point of the stress response, okay? It's when we think there's danger. So what happens, your focus comes inward.

You're not compassionate. You're not looking to cooperate with people. You're looking for threat. You're looking for problems, right? Okay, another way people can often understand this is this idea that if you've had a weekend off where you've properly rested, okay, and you've switched off and maybe you've gone for a walk in nature, you can read an email on a Monday morning and interpret it a certain way.

You could read that same email on a Friday afternoon when you've had a busy work week and you are interpreting it completely differently. It's the same email, but you are looking at it differently because of the state of your nervous system. Wow. Right? And it's, you know, I thought about this the last few days, Mel. I don't know how this lands for you,

but I was thinking about me and, you know, I'm away from home at the moment. So when you're away, you can often think big picture. I think what is it you're doing wrong? And you know, with your podcasts, with your books on the face of it, it seems like what I'm talking about is health. But I've realized that's not my end goal now, right? Why? Why does health matter? Why does happiness matter? I think what I'm trying to do actually at its core is create or

Contribute to a more compassionate world. Hmm, if you're healthier if you can lower your stress response You're a kind of person you have more empathy Well, that's the world. I want to be part of creating I want my children to grow up in a world where there isn't all this division. We're people are nice to each other. That's who we are as humans. I'm sure of it. Me too. That's what drives me, Mel. This stuff seems like it's about health. I don't think it is. Health is the mechanism to get to compassion for me. And connection.

And connection. And peace. And peace when you're well slept. When you understand where stress lives in your life and you do a few simple things that we can talk about like a breathing practice or a journaling practice. Okay. Simple things that don't cost much money. That's what I'm always talking about in my books and my podcast. Most of the things I write about and talk about are free of charge. People say health and wellness, you need money for it. Then I push back against that. Yes, I get it to buy healthy food in certain parts of the world. Yes, your income matters for

sure. But there are lots and lots of things that we can do that do not cost any money at all that will absolutely change our state or lower our stress levels. So what are some of your favorite simple things that you do or that you recommend to your patients that do help you reset from this, I'm in an attack mode state to, I can breathe. I think the most important daily practice for anyone in 2025 is a daily practice of solitude. I believe that with all my heart, Mel. What does that mean, especially given that people feel lonely already? Yes. Solitude is different from loneliness.

Solitude is the intentional practice of spending a bit of time with yourself. Because what happens today, Mel, is that so many people, they're waking up, their smartphone is their alarm, they're picking up their phone, they're reacting to the world around them, they're consuming emails, toxic content online, social media, news. And what a lot of people don't realize is that their thoughts, their feelings and their actions are often downstream from the content they're consuming. So what can that solitude be? It could be a walk for 10 minutes where you don't have anything in your ears, where you're

just allowing your thoughts and feelings to come up. It could be journaling, it could be breath work, it could be anything you want. I'll give you some of my favorites. Okay. I'll give you one that you've already explained us. I would say that the act of making your coffee and doing your movement on your own for yourself, by yourself is exactly that. Exactly they all link in with each other. The pillars aren't as separate as we might think.

They're a use of framework to look at our life and see where we're going to make change. But once you start in any one of them, you'll realize how they all feed each other, right? Breathwork, the most powerful way and the quickest way to change your internal state and therefore, your stress levels is through a practice of breath work. Now one of my favorite practices is what I call the three, four, five breath. I've been using it with my patients for years. Great. Why don't you walk us through it?

I love it. You breathe in for three. Okay, let's do it. Okay, let's do it. Okay. Okay. So breathe in for three. Okay.

Hold for four. One, two, three, four. Now breathe out for five. One, two, three, four, five. Okay, now before we go any further, how do you feel after doing that? My shoulders dropped. I felt myself settle. I almost felt like there's a downshift. Yeah, I felt it. I felt it myself as well. That's just one breath. Okay, the three, four, five breath,

one breath takes 12 seconds, five of them takes one minute. When your out-breath is longer than your in-breath, you help to switch off the stress part of your nervous system and activate the relaxation part of your nervous system. Okay? So the 3-4-5 breath is just a very simple method I've created to help my patients. There are so many other amazing breathwork practices out there. I'm not saying you have to do this one, but the principle is that it will really help you calm, lower your stress, be more

present. It shows you how interconnected the body is. So I would say something like the 3-4-5 breath is a really, really simple tool that you can use preemptively in the morning as part of a routine, a morning routine, or when you're getting stressed out in the day, you have a meeting with your boss and let's say a disagreement with your husband, you can actually just take a time out, do three, four, five breathing for just 30 seconds a minute and you'll be much better able to engage once you've done it. I believe you. I believe you. I love that your approach to health, Dr. Chatterjee, over the years has really evolved to a much more profound connection to living a meaningful life.

I know you. I've read your six books. I listen to your podcast. I follow your work, so I also know that your father's life had a very big impact on you. Could you just share a little bit about how your father's story has informed and influenced your approach and your mission and why this matters so much to you? and why this matters so much to you? Yeah. Dad came to the UK in 1962 from India

and Dad's not been here now for almost 11 years and it's almost the classic immigrant story, okay? He came to the UK in search of a better life, a better life for his immediate family in the UK and his family back home in America. But this is what my dad's life was like. My dad was a doctor. He was a consultant at Manchester War Infirmary.

But for 30 years, my dad only slept three nights a week. It is actually really hard for me to even imagine that now. You know, as a father myself, thinking through to what my dad did and how he lived, I don't really understand how he was able to do it. But I think when you have a strong passion and a mission, it's amazing what you can achieve. So I've really evolved my view on my dad's life. But in essence, when my dad became 57, he suddenly became sick with the autoimmune condition lupus. His kidneys failed and he was chained to a dialysis machine

for 15 years, three times a week at the local hospital until dad died in 2013. Now I moved back to where I grew up, which is where I live now, which is, you know, you've been there when you came onto my podcast a few years ago. I live in the same town that I grew up in. And I moved back to help my mom and my brother look after my dad. When my dad died in 2013, it was like a juggernaut explosion in my life. Like it is for many people. It's the first time I had to really confront death. I had to confront death as a doctor with patients for many years, but it's different. That's my job. When it was with my dad, who I used to care for and see three times a day, I had this big hole in my life.

And really, it was only after my dad died that I started to ask myself the big existential questions now about, well, whose life am I really leading? Is it my life? Is it someone else's life? So I've been on a real journey since my dad died. I've made changes in how I live my life based on what my dad did. So I'll explain one of the changes is, you know, I rarely saw my dad growing up because he was working, he was providing, right? And I used to say, Mel, I used to say that I think my dad made a mistake. I used to say that I think my dad's mistook. I used to say that I think my dad mistook success

for happiness, which is, I think, what many people do in the world these days. But I've actually evolved my view, Mel. I think it's unfair of me to make that judgment on my dad. If my dad was still alive today, the one question I would have for him, and I've thought about this a lot, I would say to dad, dad, was it worth it? Because he might say to me, Mel, he might say, you know, we might say, oh, he was chronically stressed. He was sleep deprived. That's why he got lupus. He shouldn't have worked so hard. And through one angle, I actually believe that, Mel. But the other way I look at life now is my dad might say, hey, son, yeah, it was worth it.

You know, I came to the UK to give you and your brother a great start in life. And I did that. Look at you now. Look how many people's lives you're impacting around the world. Look how many books you've written. Look how many people listen to your podcast each week. Yeah, I'd do that again. And it's a really different way of looking at life, Mel. Like

I've learned over the years that you can reframe anything in life, that stress is not just external, it's internal as well. It's how we look at these neutral events, right? I can look at my dad's death in a very negative way, like, oh, I can't believe my dad's death in a very negative way. I go, I can't believe my dad's not here. Poor me. You know, I lost my dad at a young age. And I used to do that at Mel, but it doesn't help me. I've experienced the grief, but now coming up to 11 years on, you know how I see my dad's death now?

I see my dad's death as a gift. It's a gift that he gave me. The things I've learned through my dad's death as a gift. It's a gift that he gave me. The things I've learned through my dad's death, all the things I share in these books, particularly this new one. Yes, you write a lot about this. I would not have known this stuff had I not gone through the grief of losing my dad. Right? So now, and you can call the spiritual if you want, and I'm okay with that. I know as medical doctors maybe we're not meant to talk like that, but I would say these days I do feel really spiritual.

I actually feel that through dad's death, I have learned some of the most powerful lessons of my entire life. So now I choose to look at it as a gift that my dad gave to me. One of the things that you write about, it's on page 28 on your new bestselling book, Make Change That Lasts, is you write about this period in your life and the person listening may be in a position in their life where they're in the caregiver role,

whether that's because you work as a first responder or a nurse in a hospital or you're a teacher or you have aging parents. And you just shared with us that you moved home when your dad became ill and you helped your brother and your mom and you write about your reflections about caregiving. And I want to read what you wrote and then have you speak to it a little bit. This is on page 28 and 29. You say, you know, when I look back now to the time I used to care for dad, I don't regret a thing. However, on reflection, my belief that his well-being was entirely my responsibility wasn't helpful. The truth was he had a loving family and a brilliant team of medical professionals all available to him.

But for whatever reason, I generated a myth for myself to live by that said, I could only be happy if I personally met his every need. That myth trapped me. It was the cause of a great deal of pain in my body and mind as well as to my wife who had to deal with my regular absences and my significantly increased loads of stress. If I'd been able to hear my body's signals, I would have realized much earlier that something was wrong. If I knew then what I know now, I would have meditated on the issue, realized that this damaging myth that I was responsible for him and meeting his every need, that was holding me down and I would have empowered myself to make changes. I would love to have you speak to that realization and what you want the person listening to know who is in a role where you're the caregiver

and the stress is overwhelming and you do feel the responsibility because a lot of people say the words, well, if I'm not here, nobody else is. So what would you say, Dr. Chatterjee, based on your life experience, caring for your father and that myth? First of all, Mel, if there is someone who is listening right now, who is in that role, I get it. I know how difficult it is. I know how stressful it can feel. I know how it can feel that there's no way out and you have no time for yourself. I was there. I was there for a long, long time.

But those words that you just read out, Mel, it's really quite emotional listening to them because now I can reflect back and to put it in real context, in the months and years leading up to dad's death, this is what my life used to look like. I would wake up, I lived five minutes away from my mom and dad's, I'd wake up at about five, I'd go round to mom and dad's, I'd help get dad up, I'd help get him shaved and ready. And that could take all kinds of time depending on what was going on and how well he was. I'd then come home, try and see my wife and my young baby boy. Then I'd drive to work as a primary care doctor and be busy in the day. I'd try sometimes on lunch if one of the home visits was near my parents' house, I'd try

and nip in and just check how dad was doing. I'd then go back to work. On the way back from work after a long day seeing patients, again, I'd go. I'd often end up coming back home feeling really, really stressed. My wife had already put my son to bed. I was chronically stressed. If I think about it now, the impact on my marriage, on those early years as a father, I don't believe in regrets. I really don't. I believe regrets in many ways are a form of perfectionism. But I believe I can learn from the past and I can learn from those mistakes. Not even mistakes, I can learn from those

experiences and go, if I was in the same situation again, and I have been in a similar situation over the last years, because my mum has become more and more unwell. I'm very different now looking after my mom. My mom's like 84, 85, right? How are you different? It's not my identity that I'm the only person who is going to be here and responsible for everything, right? With my dad, I made it my identity. It was who I was. My dad being well was a reflection of who I was as a human being, right? I would do everything. If dad wasn't well, I'd done something wrong. I was going to go and fix it. That

creates so much inner torture when you see yourself like that. And as you just read out, no one expected that. That's a story I created inside my own head. Was it real? I think a lot of caregivers do. Yeah. That it's all on me, this is my identity. If they're not doing well, it's my fault. If I'm not here, no one's here.

It's not dissimilar in some ways. I mean, when I read the Lethal Theory, one of the things I find really powerful about it is the separation between me and the other person, but in a really beautiful way, not a separation that I don't care. In your book, Mel, you write about how it's okay for other people to feel their emotions and feel disappointed. And, you know, you can apply the same principle here, Mel, where if the cost, and this was the cost, if the cost of looking after my dad meant that it was going to impact my ability

to be a good father and a good husband, that's a cost I wasn't aware that I was paying. Hmm. But now I know. Now, to be really clear, I have a great relationship with my kids. I'm happily married. It's just past 17 years recently, okay? Things are great. But I've learned from that, and now with my mom, who I love just as much as my dad, I'm not falling into the same traps. Well, what I love about the fact that you as a doctor and as a son shared that you made

it your identity. You drove yourself into the ground that didn't help your father, it didn't help you, it didn't help your mother. And that we've talked a lot about small changes. And maybe the small change that somebody could make is if you're able to see that this doesn't have to be your identity, it's just one of the things that you are taking care of because you really are the kind of person that values taking care of somebody else, it's part of your values, but it doesn't define you. That maybe that allows you to claim another five to 10% of your time back and say,

it's okay if they have a bad day. It's okay if they're struggling right now. It's okay if they're alone for 20 minutes. This is so key, Mel. Exactly, and that's why I brought up your book, right? Because it's a key theme that I got from that book that I think totally applies here. I couldn't tolerate something, you know, me or someone not being there for my dad to meet his every needs, right?

But it's ridiculous. It's utterly ridiculous, right? But it's ridiculous. It's utterly ridiculous, right? I would argue that I cared just as much for my mother as I did for my father, but in a completely different way. I practice self care. I will do these things for my own health. I will also, the truth be known, like if for whatever reason I can't do something, I'm not going to kill myself like I used to to get it done. I'm like, actually, you know what? On balance, it's okay.

I can't meet every need for my mom anymore. Okay? It's okay. If sometimes she wants me around and I can't be there, that's okay. Right? And it's okay to come around and see her disappointed be there, that's okay, right? And it's okay to come around and see her disappointed, okay? That's okay. And the funny thing is, I would almost argue that I'm caring for my mom in a much better way. When I'm around her, I'm not tired. I've

got the energy. I've given myself five minutes each day. And then there's another powerful story at the start of chapter one, where I took him out to my dad's funeral now. And I remember I had back pain for years, chronic back pain. And I saw this amazing musculoskeletal expert who helped at like 70, 80 percent, for sure. But there was still this niggling tightness. And I can still remember, Mel, 2013, I'm at my dad's funeral. I'm in my best suits. We know, we've just had the ceremony and I can still remember being at Manchester crematorium, watching the body go into the flames and the tiniest of my right back just vanished. And I second guessed myself, I said, did that just happen?

I know that happens. Right. And what I've realized, because I've read for years about how the body stores emotions. Of course. But that's the first time I truly got it. I got it. I was like, oh my God. The weight, the pressure that I put on myself, that I'm the one who's responsible for my

dad's well-being, even though it was dad who was sleep deprived for 30 years, chronically stressed, you know, didn't take his holidays. Somehow it's my responsibility. That was giving me backache. It's absolutely crazy now to realize that I needed to see my dad's flesh and blood being burnt for my body, for my subconscious to finally realize, oh, it's not on you anymore. That back pain was the weight of expectation I put on myself to look after him. So for the person listening and all of the people that they're about to share this with

who are just the relentless demands of being a caregiver, what is the one thing that they could shift right now to reclaim a little space for themselves without feeling like you're giving up on someone else? Yeah, there's two things. Okay. There's not one thing, there's two things. One of them is what we've already spoken about, and it's the cliche of putting on your oxygen mass first, okay?

If you do a five-minute action for yourself each day, I promise you, you will be better able to look after whoever you have to look after in your life. When you think you don't have any time for yourself, that it's all on that person, and frankly, take this away from being a caregiver for a sick elderly parent. What about mothers? Or an autistic child? Yeah. My practice was full of, well, many people for years, but I saw a lot of mothers who

literally never gave themselves any time. Everything was for their partner, their parents, their children. They did nothing for themselves. They didn't feel that they could. And actually, one of the biggest things I would teach a lot of my patients throughout the years was that I gave them, well, I didn't teach them this. I shared with them how important it was and a lot of them would come back to me and say, hey, doc, you know what you've done for me? You've given me permission to relax. You've given me permission to look after myself. Even if you've got the most taxing care job in the world, I promise you have five minutes

for yourself each day. You have five minutes to nourish yourself. That will make you a better carer. It will make you kinder. It will make you healthier. It will really do something quite special to how you view yourself. That's the first thing I'd say. The second thing I'd say, and it goes back to why I believe a daily practice of

solitude is the most important thing. If you sit with yourself each day, whether it's a three, four, five breath, or you just frankly sit in silence with your cup of coffee, and you're not scrolling email at the same time, you will start to feel things in your body. Right? So Mel, what was going on for years with me that I never knew because I was too busy and I didn't have solitude was when my stress load is building up, I start to feel tightness in my right upper back. When I was so busy, I never paid attention. Now, because I have a daily practice of solitude, when I feel that tightness on my right back, it's like an early warning signal. When I feel

that pressure coming up now, I'm like, oh, what's going on in my life? Oh, there's a difficult conversation I need to have with my wife. I've taken on too much at work. Maybe I need to really switch off this weekend. whatever it might be, it's an early warning signal to tell me that I need to take aversive action. At the moment, Mel, people are not doing this. In the UK, 88% of people are thought to have experienced some degree of burnout in the past two years. That is a really damning indictment of the state of modern society. What I'm trying to say for the person listening right now is that one of the ways that you will improve every aspect of your life is with a daily practice of solitude. Start listening

to yourself, feel where the tightness is in your tummy, your back, your neck, right? And then start asking yourself, what is this telling me? And you will start to develop this inner trust in yourself. You will start to pick up problems before they start to arise. I love it. Dr. Chatterjee, what do you think the most powerful lesson is that you've learned after after being in medical practice for over 23 years and working with patients and writing bestselling books and having one of the top health podcasts in the world. What is one of the most powerful lessons you've learned about how anybody can create lasting

change? how anybody can create lasting change. I would say Mel, with all of my heart, the thing that I've learned the most, that I'm most passionate about, is this idea that anyone can change their lives. It doesn't matter how dark you think your life is at the moment. It doesn't matter if you feel stuck, lost, unmotivated. I have seen patients who are suicidal transform their life and it started with a five minute

action. No word of a lie. It started with a five minute action because here's the reality. If you've got deep and dark depression and you're having suicidal thoughts, any change feels too hard because when you're suicidal and you feel like there's nothing there for you, and to be really clear, there are many factors that contribute here. Of course. Okay, I'm not trying to at all trivialize this in any way at all.

You're not. But a five-minute action done consistently does something so powerful to self-esteem, to the way you view yourself, to your motivation, to your belief that you can make change. So what do I believe more than anything? Anyone listening now to this show right now or watching it on YouTube, I don't care how bad you think your life is. I absolutely believe in you because I've seen people in the darkest places change their life time

and time again. So I know it's possible for each and every individual. Dr. Chatterjee, what are your parting words? My parting words are, think about your life. Okay, think about where you are at the moment. Is this the life you want? Okay, Is this the life that you dreamt off when you were 15? If it's not, I'm not here to say that you can achieve all of the dreams you had as a child. I'm not here to say that. But what I'm here to say is that you can improve things. It is not as difficult as you think. If you're not happy with the state of your life, if you're not happy with where you are,

what you're doing, the energy you have at the moment, you've got to make a change. It's not as hard as you think, but if you don't change now, when will ye? Dr. Chatterjee, I am in awe of your ability to make what is so overwhelming, so simple, so profound, so urgent, and I think most importantly, available and hopeful to me and to the person listening. Because that very last piece that you said, I have come to believe the same thing, that it's not a matter of somebody not having the will, it's that they have a belief that it's not gonna matter. And if you know the simple things you can do,

but you do not believe it's gonna matter, you will never do them. But what you successfully did today and what you do in all of your work is that you show up for us and explain the complicated in a way that makes it not just simple and easy, but you make me and the person listening believe that it's worth trying. Yeah. And that's a gift. Thank you for sharing your gifts and your passion and your wisdom with me and with the person listening today.

My pleasure, Mel. Thank you so much for having me on your show. My God, I just love you. I love you, I love you, I love you. And I want to tell you, whomever you share this with, because I'm sure you had a bunch of people in your life that you were thinking about as Dr. Chatterjee was pouring into us today, there is no doubt

that this time that your loved ones are going to get to spend with Dr. Chatterjee, life altering, absolutely life altering. So if you're concerned, if you care about, if you just love people in your life, please send this to them, because it's hard to get through to the people that we care about. But I have a feeling that Dr. Chatterjee is going to be able to work his magic. And in case no one else tells you,

I wanted to be sure to tell you that I love you and I believe in you and I believe in your ability to change your life. And so does Dr. Chatterjee. So take everything you just learned today and actually do it because your life will change if you do. You're going to feel better, you're going to see the results, you're going to experience hope and I so want that for you. You deserve that. All righty, I'll talk to you in a few days. I'll be waiting in the very next episode to welcome you in the second you hit play. I'll see you there. the second you hit play. I'll see you there.

I am so excited to talk to you. I'm pumped, man. I've been looking forward to this for days. Well, we're friends and we admire each other's work. And that's a good starting point. Yes. That's a very good starting point for a conversation. Well, wait till I get going and then I'm gonna start screaming into the mic. That's a joke, I won't be doing that. Oh, you can do that. Kevin can handle anything. All right, great. Awesome.

Okay, add breaks. Here we go. Yes, okay, great. And if you're a brand new listener, and if you're new, okay, and to be together. Anything else? Okay.

Boom, people, that's how it's done. Ha ha ha ha. Oh, and one more thing. And no, this is not a blooper. This is the legal language. You know what the lawyers write and what I need to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for educational and entertainment purposes. I'm

just your friend. I am not a licensed therapist and this podcast is not intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist or other qualified professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode. professional. Got it? Good. I'll see you in the next episode. Stitcher