The Moth - The Moth Radio Hour: Knowing When And How To Fight

Episode Date: March 14, 2023

In this hour, five stories of picking our battles. The internal and external pressures that guide how we speak up, speak out, or stay silent. Hosted by The Moth's Artistic Director Catherine Burns. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by The Moth and Jay Allison of Atlantic Public Media. Hosted by: Catherine Burns Storytellers: Hillary Boone and her mother scheme to save Vermont from hate. Maria Hodermarska fights for services for her son. Ed Mabaya finds himself in danger while visiting his girlfriend. Brad Lawrence and his sister work their mom's last nerve with their brawling. Angela Lush struggles to speak up.

Attention Houston! You have listened to our podcast and our radio hour, but did you know the Moth has live storytelling events at Wearhouse Live? The Moth has opened Mike's storytelling competitions called Story Slams that are open to anyone with a five-minute story to share on the night's theme. Upcoming themes include love hurts, stakes, clean, and pride. GoodLamoth.org forward slash Houston to experience a live show near you. That's theMoth.org forward slash Houston. This is TheMoth Radio Hour from PRX, and I'm Catherine Burns. Today, we're going to hear stories about knowing when and how to fight.

I don't know about you, but when it comes to physical fighting, I'm not that up to the task. The one fight I was ever in took place in 3rd grade. When I didn't notice two boys fighting, and stepped right in between them as a punch was flying, it ended up on the ground with a bloody nose But a lot of fighting isn't the physical kind which is a case with our first storyteller Hillary Boone We met her in our Burlington Vermont Story Slam series where we partner with Vermont Public Radio. Here's Hillary Boone live at the mall live at the mall. So in the year 2000, I was in high school in the Northeast Kingdom of Vermont, and I

knew that I was gay. And there was a huge backlash happening at that time from the Civil Union's bill passing, and there was a motto for the movement, some of you will know it, it was take back Vermont. It started out as a political slogan that meant take back Vermont from the liberals, but where I lived, it morphed. And it became a slogan of hate. It became take back Vermont from the queers. And it was everywhere in our town on huge white billboards

with big black letters, take back Vermont. And I didn't know any other gay people and we did not have the internet, but I knew that the way that I felt was not okay and it was not to be shared with anyone. But luckily for me, that's not the whole story, because I have a really awesome mom. And this awesome mom, she didn't know a lot of gay people either, but she knew that she didn't like those signs. And so one day, I was a sophomore in high school. Mom took me and my friend Tara aside, and she said,

girls, I've got a proposition for you. I'm going to pay you $10 for every one of those horrible take back from onsigns that you steal and bring back to me here at the house. And we were like, yeah. So we went to the shed. And we got the tools we thought we would need. We got hammers and crowbars and a ladder, put it in the back of my trunk, waited until

nightfall, dressed all in black, and went out into the northeast kingdom of Vermont to steal. And off these signs came, I mean from the tops of trees, from the sides of barns, from someone's trailer, these huge signs. And we brought them home. My mom helped us take them out of the car. She took them into the backyard, and she lit them on fire.

And that's where my dad found us. And he said, Jesus Christ, Carla, the girls are going to get shot. You can't condone this. So we were asked to stop. And we didn't. That summer, we stole. But I didn't come out then. I didn't come out until I was a sophomore in college in Boston when I met the other

gay people, when I got the internet. It was really hard for me. It was excruciating. And at that time, I didn't know where the strength to be who I needed to be was coming from. So flash forward, it's 2010. And I am living in Seattle with my girlfriend. And my little brother Thomas is visiting. He's on his way to Japan, but am living in Seattle with my girlfriend and my little brother Thomas is visiting

He's on his way to Japan, but he stopped in Seattle for his birthday and it's eight o'clock in the morning and my phone rings And I don't answer it, but I look at it and I see that it's my dad and I think well, that's weird Certainly and then in the other room I hear Tom's phone go off and I think well, that's not good at all And the next thing that I hear Tom's phone go off. And I think, well, that's not good at all. And the next thing that I know, my little brother is bursting through the door into the bedroom. And he's in my arms, and he's heaving. And our mother has had a massive stroke overnight.

And my dad has carried her to the car, and he's driven a half an hour to the hospital. And now he is on the highway, and she is driven a half an hour to the hospital. And now he is on the highway and she is in a helicopter on our way to Dartmouth Hitchcock and we don't know if she's gonna survive. And this is my worst case scenario. Like this is the worst thing that could happen to us. And so Thomas is in the bathroom throwing up

and I'm on the phone and I'm on the internet and I'm canceling his flight to Japan and I'm booking us flights home and I'm telling my dad that it's okay and that this isn't his fault. And all the while I know that my beautiful, powerful, elegant, strong mother, if she survives it all, is never going to walk or speak again. I think that having pride is a medal of honor. And I think that it comes because you overcame something or because you earned something. And over the last four years, as I've watched my mom, where you learn to talk, using the right side of her her brain where most of us learn to play music from watching her learn to walk again

Watching her go back to school as a physical or back to work as a physical therapist and then back to school for massage therapy Having a Dartmouth Hitchcock neurologist quietly tell me when I look at your mom's brain scan I can't explain how she's doing this well with all of that, I know exactly where I got the strength to be who I am. Because for the second time in my life, my mom showed me what it means to take back your identity and to be yourself. And I just, I am so happy I got to tell this story because I'm so proud of my mom and I'm so proud to be part of a badass lineage of women

Who do what it takes no matter what it takes to be ourselves in the world. Thank you That was Hillary Boon Hillary works in nonprofits as a program manager and consultant. In her free time, she plays outside and draws cartoons. Hillary is now married and lives in Fort Ethan Allen with her wife and dog. And quick update on her mom, Carla. She's now studying massage therapy and working with patients who are in chronic pain. You can see pictures of the two of them at the Moth.org.

While you're there, you can call our pitch line and leave a two minute version of a story you'd like to tell. Do you have a story about fighting for something you believe in? We want to hear it. The number to call is 877-799-Moth, or you can pitch us the story right at our website, the Mothador. Next we have a story from Maria Hodromarska. We met Maria at a community workshop we did with Open Future Learning. Participants in this workshop were all parents of people with developmental disabilities. I happened to be in the audience when she told it and the story has always stuck with me.

Here's Maria Hohymarska, live of the mall. I've always tried to let my older son show me the way. When he was eight years old, he was obsessed with trains and he insisted on having his birthday party at Grand Central Station. Where he could watch the trains come and go and hand out food to homeless people. He called them lonely people

and that was his criterion for selecting who to approach. Lonely. At one point in the afternoon, I watched him walk up and that was his criterion for selecting who to approach lonely. At one point in the afternoon, I watched him walk up to a business man seated on a bench waiting for the 5-10 Metro North to New Haven. And I stood there fascinated while the very lonely looking investment banker handed the sandwich back to my son. My son is also a person who lives with the disability. And it was always thought that he was functioning somewhere on the autism spectrum. Parents like me, parents of people with disabilities, spend our lives telling another story. I call it the story.

The story of the pregnancy, the story of the birth, the story of the developmental milestones achieved or not achieved, the story of the accumulating laundry list of the things that the person with a disability cannot do. And the service delivery system is set up in this contentious and adversarial manner, so parents like me are required to tell the story, the same set of facts over and over again in order to get the services that our children require to professionals, bureaucrats, whose job it is to either not listen, half listen, or not believe the story, and deny the services. I think of it kind of as a narrative purgatory. Not to mention how it feels when you want to talk about your son's majestic humanity,

to know that the story that really counts is how he can't tie his shoes. When my son was about to turn 18 years of age and was gonna age out of the board of education system, he would lose all of the services that he had. So I decided to apply for Medicaid for him, he would lose all of the services that he had. So I decided to apply for Medicaid for him, which would cover the cost of extending the services that he requires into his adult life. This was going to be the most important telling of the story that I would ever do, and

his entire future hinged upon that. Literally, if I didn't tell the story well and he didn't get the services, he would have nowhere to go, nothing to do, and nobody to do it with. A truly lonely life. So it's a gray autumn morning, and my son, who I'm going to call David, and I, David and I set out for the Brooklyn Developmental Disabilities Services Center, which is a 1970s brutalist structure built on a toxic landfill in East New York to house people with developmental disabilities. And we go there to do battle with the state of New York

for the Medicaid, and the state of New York here in represented by a clinical psychologist, who I will call Stewie. Now, that's not his real name, but his was an equally friendly diminutive. And David is looking good as he often does. He's got on a hat and a jacket. And David often looks so good.

In fact, once he was nearly arrested for illegal use of his half-fair card. So we arrive on the campus, and first, it's David's turn to go in with Stewie. And this takes about an hour and a half. And David comes out of his meeting with Stewie laughing and talking about his favorite kinks album and Stewie shoots me a look that I've seen on a lot of bureaucrats. It's beleaguered and slightly sarcastic and it tells me you're going to lose this battle. Your son is too high functioning. So now it's my turn to go in. I am not feeling particularly cool or put together. I've told this story many times and I'm prepared to tell it again. I walk into the room with Stewie and pretty quickly, it becomes like a boxing

ring and the punches start flying. Stewie draws his attention to an 80-page adaptive behavior assessment that I've completed on my son. Stewie says, you know, you said here that your son can't follow a simple three-step command, but he just told me that he's been riding the city subway system by himself for a long time, and he offered me some pretty complex train directions.

That's right, I say. And I go on to explain how he took his grandparents around the city in the subway when he was three years old, but that he still can't sequence a shower, and he often leaves the bathroom with soap suds in his hair. Stewie says, you know, you wrote here that your son can't do bilateral skills, and those are skills that involve tying shoelaces or cutting something. But he told me that he's learning how to play the guitar. That's right. I said and I explain how you never want to give David a two-fisted sandwich

because most of it will wind up on his lap or on the floor, but if he's playing music, both his left and right brain and both hands are working in concert. I become aware that Stewie's not buying any of this, and I'm losing this battle. David suddenly bursts into the room. He starts to scream at me. When are we leaving? We've been here all day. I've had enough.

I'm overwhelmed. And he paces the room like a caged animal. And I say, David, maybe you want to listen to music. I've been listening to my music. The iPods out of juice. I don't know what to do. Did you bring your charger? I say, yes, yes, yes, he says, go get the charger.

Let's plug the iPod in. Maybe you can listen to some more music in a little while. And David reaches into his backpack where he's got the charger. And when he pulls it out, the bag explodes. Small pieces of paper, half broken nubs of pencils, food, small pieces of plastic, all over the room. And there I am, again, where I often am.

A little embarrassed about my son's behavior until I realize that I don't need to explain anything that David is doing the explaining for himself, he's showing the way. And Stewie begins to pay attention. He threads through the narrative that I've given him, the presence and absence of certain things. He pours over the evaluations from my son from the age of two to 18. I look up at the clock and realize that six hours have passed. Stewie suddenly looks up at me and smiles. He tells me that he has an explanation for all of it. Your son is not autistic.

The inoxia it is birth, the lack of oxygen, caused brain damage. This is a traumatic brain injury. There we were, Stewie, David and me, in our ring, having done battle for many hours. My adversary had become my hero. My son, David, had shown the way, and as is true with any prize fight

There was a decision and my son would get his services That was Maria Hooder Marstack Maria is a clinical assistant professor of drama therapy at New York University. She's also the proud mother and stepmother of seven wonderful adults. To see a photo of Maria and her son, go to the moth.org. Coming up, a trip to visit his long distance girlfriend puts a young man in a threatening situation, when the math-ready hour continues. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts, and presented by PRX. This is the Moth Radio Hour from PRX. I'm Catherine Burns. In this show, we're hearing

about fighting, specifically the decision about how far to push things. We met our next storyteller and a workshop we did with the Aspen New Voices Fellows. He went on to tell this story in the main stage show in Ithaca, New York. Here's Ed Mabaya. In 1998, the hit song, Get Jiggy with It by Woo Smith, was guaranteed to get everybody on the dance floor. See, it was my business to know these things, because as a graduate student at Cornell University, I used to DJ at student parties just to make a little extra cash. So at one

of these parties, a good friend of mine introduced me to this cute and rather shy girl named Krista. Later on I danced with her that evening and before the night was over, I got a DJ's, as we called it back in the days. Not wanting to sound too desperate, I waited for exactly 48 hours before I called here, and we agreed to meet for coffee right here in the comments. It turned out that neither one of us liked coffee, so we both ate tea instead and we spent much of the afternoon getting to know each other, just talking.

About two weeks later we started dating and things were a little rocky, a little shaky at the beginning as we were both transitioning from other relationships. However, a kind of notice that Chris and I never ran out of things to say to each other. We would spend all weekend just sitting together, enjoying each other's company, and just being in love. I had that kind of lingering feeling that, you know, this could be the one. So, about a year later on,

Christa got funding to go and do a PhD field work in Cape Town, South Africa. I was happy for her, but I knew this would be quite a big test yw hwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww Facebook and WhatsApp so we tried to do as much as we could on email. So about the semester that I learned, I got funding to go and do my own food research work in my home country in Babway. I jumped at that opportunity to make a one week stop of in Cape Town to see Christa. The reunion was just as good as I did marginally to be. As two young lovers who were happy to be reunited,

we walked around town holding hands. We giggled and kissed as we checked out the many restaurants and the many amazing signs that Cape Town has to offer, just a lovely place. Christa was renting an apartment in an upscale neighborhood called Sea Point. From the apartment, you could see the deep blue Atlantic ocean. And also in the distance, you could see Robin Island, the infamous prison island where Kami ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni ni Hinti, kakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakak Hela hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula hula Alekko na kakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakak to do, but it did welcome this is a sign of our growing relationship. She wanted me to be there for her for this very important medical procedure. So on the day of the appointment,

we drove to downtown Capetown where the dentist's office was located, and after filling in some paperwork, crystal laid down in the dentist chair, and I said a few feet next to that. With the help of a nurse, the dentist started yanking out this mole as out of a mouth. And quite honestly, if you take away the white lab course and the stainless steel utensils or tools, whatever they use, this scene looked straight out of medieval times.

Very primitive. Just when they were studying to teach up their gums, Chris started to mumble something. She was awake all this time, even though she was under a partial anesthetic. She started to mumble something in common, so a moved closer to her and a held her hand. Then with the mouth full of blood, she said, I love you so much. I want to spend the rest of my life with you. Almost in tears, I was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little bit of a man who was a little Nihari'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i'i' kakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakak And I started to wonder if this situation may be would have been handled a little differently

if I'd been white as well. After all, if this was just a routine paperwork, they probably should have just given this to me when we checked in. So after the procedure, we got back in the car and I started driving back to Chris's apartment. She was still sedated, so I played some of her favorite music and they enjoyed listening to her mumbling

to some of the car, stood up and she said, Ed, I don't feel good, then she tamed very pale, whiter than I'd ever seen her, and then she passed out. Instinctively, I grabbed it just before she hit the ground and held it up in my arms. Hesitimali, hiratimali, hiratimali, hiratimali, hiratimali, hiratimali,

hiratimali, hiratimali, hiratimali, hiratimali, hiratimali, hiratimali, hiratimali, hiratimali, hiratimali, hiratimali, kakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakak Hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, Kami takatakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakak yw swag. Yw swag. Yw swag. Yw swag. Yw swag.

Yw swag. Yw swag. Yw swag. Yw swag. Yw swag. Yw swag. Yw swag. Yw swag.

Yw swag. Yw swag. Yw swag. Yw swag. Yw swag. Yw swag. Yw swag. Yw swag.

Yw swag. Yw swag. Yw swag. Yw swag. Yw swag. Yw sw. I was a girl from me. I started to fear for my own life. I recalled that South Africa was well known for these mob justice where people got injured or even killed for even the most petty of crimes. I knew that with such a history of racial attention, even if the police arrived there, the problem could easily misread this situation. Kutakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakakak I said to them, this is my girlfriend, she just been to the dentist and I just need help getting it to her apartment.

They did not seem to believe me and one of them just said, look, Guy, we'll take it out from here and then reluctantly I handed Christa over to them. I then led the way to the apartment and they walked behind me carrying her, still not sure what was going on. Hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, hanna, You would be amazed how difficult it is to prove this simple little fact. First, I opened a closet, I pointed to my clothes, and then I pointed to the suitcase in the corner, but that was not convincing. This could belong to any man. In desperation, I even pointed out to my Afrocom. Just to show them that she at least had a black boyfriend or something. Then after a while I saw this little picture from sitting on the windowsill and this picture

was crystal in me, taken up in the beautiful Adirondix. The picture looked like a perfect postcard of two young people in love. Finally, the two men looked convinced. Around that point, Chris started to regain a consciousness. Perfect timing. I explained to her what had just happened.

She smiled and whispered to me, I love you so much Ed. And then she told this man that, you know, she was okay. I looked at them, they were starting to look very uncomfortable. I thanked them for helping me very politely and I asked them to please leave us alone. That moment of near panic left me with so many questions lightly and I asked them to please leave us alone. That moment of near panic

left me with so many questions have running in my head. How much could our relationship endure in a society that was so rationally paralyzed? How could I ever tell the difference between my own biases? Faces this passive aggressive racism Haluwara kwa'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u'u I had all these questions running in my head, but there was one thing that was as clear to me as daylight. And that is twice that day in the most unfilled at moments with blood in a mouth. Christa had declared their love for me. In 20 years later, right here in Ithaca, we're still getting jiggy with it. Thank you.

That was Ed Mabaya, Ed is an agricultural economist with deep passion for world development in Africa. He grew up in Zimbabwe as the six of ten children. He loves dancing, gardening, and fixing his daughter's hair. I ask Ed if he has any updates on the story. He writes, The day after I shared the story in Ithaca, I flew to Cape Town for a conference with Christa. I felt a sense of hope when I noticed that no one was staring at us anymore as an interracial couple.

To see a photo of Ed, Christa, and their kids, go to themoth.org. Coming up, two siblings can't stop beating the crap out of each other. And later, a young girl struggles to stand up for herself while receiving her first tattoo. That's next on the Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts, and presented by the Public Radio Exchange, PRX.org. This is The Moth Radio Hour from PRX. I'm Catherine Burns. In this hour, we're hearing stories

about fighting, and our next story features an actual physical fight. It was told by Brad Lawrence at the StorySlam at the New York and Poets Cafe in New York City. Here's Brad, live with Moth. So at the time of this story, I am nine years old. My sister Amy is 14 and we are both off from school for the summer and we wake up on this particular day and we begin fighting immediately. From the minute we, like our eyes open and we are like, you're fat and you're stupid, you're ugly, I hate you, you suck. And we're just like that the entire fucking day. From like morning cartoons until like, for the prime time lineup, we are just like,

I hate you. She, oh, oh, they look, oh, and then it ranges like over the entire house in the basement and like in our respective rooms and in the living room. And we are like waiting outside the bathroom for the end of when to come out

so we can start again. You are stupid and you are ugly and I hate you. And this goes on the entire day. And we are, finally, we have taken it to the kitchen. We're in the kitchen, and we are like hammering away on my mother who is sitting there trying to do something. Stop, stop!

I have had it, I have had it with both of you, and what we're going to do is you are going to shut up, and you are going to go downstairs, and you are going to watch TV, and're going to go downstairs and you're going to watch TV and you are not going to Talk to each other and you're not gonna look at each other and you're not gonna touch each other at all Ever again and you're gonna watch TV and this is what you're gonna do and we quiet And I am gonna go to the store and why not the store you're not looking at you. You're not talking started Stay away from one another completely

Or I will kill you You're not looking at each other. You're not talking to each other. Stay away from one another completely. Or I will kill you. And so, fine. So we're going to do those. On the way out of the kitchen, to go downstairs and watch TV and not look at each other and talk to each other, I grab an orange and we go downstairs. And Amy gets down there first.

When she gets the chair with through a moat, and I get the couch and Amy puts on like, skating goes watch it that's a last thing she says. So we're watching figure skating and I'm eating the orange and Amy's and I'm sitting there eating the orange and for some reason I'm eating the orange really fast I don't know what the hurry was but I was apparently in a really big hurry to consume this origin. So I am eating it like two slices at a time. And I'm just, you know, and Amy's, you know, and I'm just eating the origin. And finally, I'm eating the origin, and I get two giant slices of orange stuck in my throat.

And I cannot swallow it, and I cannot get it back up. And I can't speak and so I look over and I go and Amy thinks I'm just being annoying so she's That she won't look at me and she won't talk to me and she won't talk to me so I'm And she's Watching players getting completely ignoring me. Her mother has gone out of the house and she, you're gross. Watching the players getting, you're completely ignoring me. Her mother has gone out of the house

and she's long since gone. She was going off for the grocery store and so I'm sitting there. And Amy's, you know, and so I'm finally, you know, after this persists for a while, Amy turns and she looks and she notices, my little brother is purple.

And so she goes, oh my god, and she jumps up and she runs over and she's 14, she's not going to the highlight maneuver. So what she has, she grabs me and she throws me on the floor and she jumps on my chest and she takes these three fingers and she jams them down my throat and she is rooting around in there like she is looking for the best gift in a grab bag in a birthday party. And finally she gets a hold of the orange and she's on my chest and when she pulls it free and when my mother walks back in she's on my chest and she is going like this and my mother from the stairs goes I had enough and she comes down the stairs and she grabs me just by an arm and she's doing this.

And I am still living on the floor. And Amy is like, Mom, Mom, Mom, Mom, and I'm sitting there going, No, Amy, say, Bye, Bye, Amy, Bye, Bye. And at this point my mom sees like the orange, looks at me and I was totally looking at orange and you say, my life and my mother looks at her two drawing children and she goes, God damn it! That was Brad Lawrence. Brad is a story producer for the RISP podcast and a teacher with an Irish art center in New York City. Brad tells us that on a single family visit has gone by in the last three decades, they did not include Amy saying, you know, I saved your life

once. The story you just heard was actually the first story Brad ever told on stage. I was also in the audience for this telling and I swear I thought the roof was gonna lift off when Brad got going. I'll never forget it. Our final storyteller is from the very first story slam we did in Melbourne, Australia. Here is Angela Lash live in Melbourne. Okay, so contrary to what you see here, I actually grew up as a very shy person. I grew up in our country, South Australia, which is thriving metropolis.

And when I was about 18 or 19, I moved to Adelaide, which completely blew my mind, so it gives you some idea of the scale that we're talking about here. And I grew up in quite a conservative family as well, so I always knew that I was different from them, but I didn't quite know how. So I thought, what can I do to kind of rebel,

but not really rebel my conservative family so that nobody would see. So I decided in my 1819 year old naive wisdom to get a tattoo. My first tattoo, nobody would see it, it would be fine, it would be beautiful, it would be amazing. So this story is also about the first time that I thought that I knew what I was doing and clearly didn't.

So I thought, okay, I'm not gonna be like the stereotypical drunken idiot on Saturday night getting a tattoo. I'm gonna plan it. So I went into to Tu Paola, my friend Kaylee with a green fairy on her hip, had highly recommended. And I picked out my masterpiece. It was beautiful. It was like A4 size.

I thought I'm gonna get a back piece. Go hard or go home. Beautiful mural. It was like a four size. I thought I'm gonna get a back piece, you know go hard or go home beautiful mirror It's very Amazonian. There was like Leaves and lilies and cliffs and waterfalls with a pool and The moon was setting in the background and a piece to resistance was like on the little cliff jutting out was a unicorn This is something that I can love for the rest of my life. What could possibly go wrong? So I picked out this tattoo and I thought, right, okay,

no alcohol, no late nights. So Monday afternoon, I thought this is the perfect time. Clearly tattooists are going to be on at their peak after the weekend. So on a Monday afternoon, oh sorry, so on a Monday afternoon, I took some time off uni, went to the Tatooist on my own because I was very independent, immature. And I spoke to her about what I wanted, I thought, I can, I'm just going to get the unicorn and then I can put everything else in around it when I have some more money, essentially. So I'm kind of bent over the table and the Tatuist is behind me and I've lifted up my shirt and he said, I'm not going to do it on your back. And I said, what do you mean you're not going to do it on my back? And he said, I was going to hurt too much, you can't have two tooth on your back. So Brian, this is 20 or so years ago, or 30 years

ago. And as I thought, okay, well, maybe he's right, maybe this is going to be too painful. So I thought, maybe what about on my hip? I said, no, no, maybe his right, maybe his is gonna be too painful. So I thought, maybe what about on my hip? I said, no, no, I'm not gonna tattoo it on your hip. Really? Okay, he said, what about your ass? I thought, oh, I thought, oh, I thought, I was gonna split you to work with the mural to be fine. So, okay, nobody else see it in the babies, it'll be okay.

So my pants are down, under his down, his put an ass dance lawn, his tattooing. And what I forgot to mention this stage is because I was clearly very artistic, classic. It was in black and white. The tattoo. And so he says to me, oh, and I can't do it in black and white and grey scale.

It has to be in color. And I said, I'm sorry. And he said, oh, I can't do the black and white. It has to be in color. And he said, what about brown? LAUGHTER And I'm thinking, in my head I'm thinking, a Brown unicorn. I was like, clearly he's a trained professional. At this moment, I hear a bell.

And it's the bell of the door on the tattoo shop opening. I looked to my right and I realised that actually there are no screens up. So I'm in the Highly Street and professional. I can see people walking down the street, if they catchly gluts that are left can see me bent over with my pants down and a man behind me. But that actually wasn't the most disturbing part.

Three or four guys walked in and I though I clearly friends of the Tatooist. So they stepped up and were chatting with the Tatooist and making jokes about what I had for breakfast and the size of my ass. And the tattooist, which was quite disturbing, and I felt a little bit paralyzed. And the tattooist tends to want them to say,

so I'm thinking about doing this brown. What do you think? I think that's a great idea. And on the table, it's like, Angela, just this happens all the time. Just be mature. You're an adult. This is all going to be fine.

And so the tattoo progresses, and he's like, oh, now how are we gonna do the moon? It's like, well now it's like the sun and we can't really do it up here, so I'm just gonna put it down there. Of course, I can't see anything because I'm bent over on the table and the guys, and so it's like, okay, let's just go with that.

And he's like, you know, there's like the grassy cliff, and he said, we can't really do that. So we're just gonna do some tuffs underneath each of, and they're gonna be right green. It's like, okay, so by this time, I am completely at his mercy. So I was like, okay, the tattoo's done. I go out, I haven't seen it because clearly mirrors were not invented at that time.

So I haven't seen the tattoo. And I thought, okay, it's going to take a little while to heal. So I couldn't really recognize what was happening at first. You know, a couple of days later at home, I'm looking, it's like, oh, I'm not quite sure, but the cream bond, it'll be fun. And so, eventually, I got a good look at that tattoo. And it wasn't so much the angry eyebrows, or the poo brown shading, or the bright green tufts of grass, or the the orange circle like a religious icon behind

its head. I had discovered much to my disgust that my unicorn had no horn and so I had become a person with a horse on their ass and I could not understand how this had happened. So I thought about going back and getting the horn put on, I thought, oh really, I really couldn't quite do that. So I thought, my best strategy is to ignore this. And sweet, which is fine, because you know, I can't really see it occasionally, it's a glance in the mirror, I think it's a spider, it's also fine. But this obviously, there comes a problem when you are sleeping with someone for the first

time. And as a young 18-year-old from the country, I had really thought that through. I hadn't slept with that many people. So it quickly actually became a judge of character. So people that made no noises or light a little pony did not last very long. But I have a one special friend who I've known for six or seven years and one of the things that I love about him is that he's never ever mentioned Mata 2. And you guys might remember it was a beautiful time a year or so ago England were thrown

out of the World Cup. He's British, by the way, but lives in Adelaide. And he sent me a text a couple of weeks later after this had happened. And he said, thank you so much for not mentioning the cricket. And all I wanted to do was reply and say, thank you so much for not mentioning the horse on my ass for the last seven years. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. That was Angela Lush. Angela is a freelance writer who's currently working on a collection of essays based on her experiences as a solo traveler in her trusty campervan. We had actually podcasted the story quite a few years ago, and I asked Angela what the reaction was to her story at the time.

She writes, I received so many photos of bad unicorn tattoos, and mine didn't seem so bad anymore. Also, my special friend heard my story via Twitter, and in a hilarious emoji exchange, told me he loved my horse-slash unicorn. How much do we love that guy? Angela went on to say, I was very glad that I said no to including a photo of the tattoo of my story.

When, during a particularly tense questioning session, a US porter control recently, the agent asked, so tell me about them off. It was bad enough sitting there for half an hour wondering if he'd listened to the story when he googled me, let alone knowing that he could have seen a picture of my butt. The Moth is mostly run by women, and we all heard this story a little bit differently in the wake of the M2 movement. We were trying to put our finger on it, and finally realized that it was audience's reaction. Angela is so funny,

so of course they're laughing, but in the current climate, I don't know if the audience would laugh quite so hard. We asked Angela about why she didn't speak up for herself, and she wrote us a letter. Dear Moth, this is a tough one to answer without writing an essay, but essentially I think comes down to the beliefs I had about myself. According to my upbringing, I was doing something wrong and shameful, and from childhood I had a deep reader belief that I was wrong and shameful. Something that not even God could fix. I felt incredibly vulnerable, violated, and frozen in fear. And in this moment, it showed up as me believing that other people, even knew where I'm at, me, my body, and how I should live my life than I did. I also believed

that since I had initiated this process, I deserved anything that came my way, even if I was terrified or knew it was wrong for me. In much the same way that I believed that if I kissed a boy, then I'd have to have sex with him, even if I didn't want to, because I'd kissed him and started something. Saying no he didn't even seem like a legitimate option and if I did say no really bad things would happen. Having my needs listened to or met seemed indulgent, I wasn't supposed to have any. Add to that some nice girls don't make a fuss or take up any space beliefs and there you have it. From Australia, that was Angela Lush.

That's it for this episode. We hope you'll join us next time for the Moth Radio Hour. Your host this hour was the Moth's artistic director, Catherine Burns. Catherine also directed the stories in the show along with Larry Rosen. The rest of the most directorial staff includes Sarah Haberman, Sarah Austin-Geness, Jennifer Hickson, and Meg Bowles. Production support from Timothy Luley and Emily Couch. Most stories are true, as remembered and affirmed by the storytellers. Our theme music is by the drift.

Other music in this hour from Lemon Jelly, Moon Dog, Will Smith, and Crung Ben. The Moth is produced for radio by me, Jay Allison with Vicki Merrick at Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts. This hour was produced with funds from the National Endowment for the Arts. The Moth Radio Hour is presented by PRX for more

about our podcast for information on pitching us your own story and everything else go to our website TheMoth.org. Thank you. you