The Nick DiPaolo Show - Best Of NickDip: Michael Dowd

Episode Date: January 24, 2017

Best Of NickDip: Michael Dowd

You're listening to Nick DiPaolo on the Riotcast Network, riotcast.com. Hey, hey, kids. This is not Nick DiPaolo. This is Rob Sprance from Riotcast. Nick is on a much-deserved vacation. Do not bother him. Because of that, he wanted to give you guys an episode, a best of, we should call it, which happens to be one of my favorite episodes

that Nick ever did as well. It's when he interviewed Michael Dowd, the corrupt New York City cop from the 1980s. There was a documentary on him called the seven five it is a fantastic interview and definitely one of my favorite shows that nick has done and he's done a lot of phenomenal shows so um here it is nick will be back but in the meantime let the guy rest a little he deserves it and enjoy michael down hey hey kids yeah that's right it's monday again fucking we'll be dead soon it's flying by ain't it uh welcome to nick the pile of podcast hey uh

you know i mentioned uh this documentary i watched a couple i've mentioned it twice now a couple weeks ago called the seven five and i i brought it up last week and uh it's about uh the 75th precinct in east new york in the 80s during the crack epidemic and there were a couple of rogue cops and uh it's a tremendous documentary joe list brought it to my attention and um you know i've been plugging it here i'll play the uh for those of you who haven't heard me talk about it, let me play the trailer to the documentary. I suggest you check it out. New York is in the grips of a crime wave. It's like the heyday of crack. It was violent, man.

Homicides, robberies, rapes. It was a war zone. East New York, Brooklyn, 75 precinct. Deadliest precinct in the country. Who did I burn to get put here? It would scare Clint Eastwood. When I first went to the precinct, I hear about this guy, Mike Dowd. I think he's just crazy.

Michael Dowd was a crook who ended up wearing a cop's uniform. He was a criminal. Once in a generation, corrupt cop. From 1964. I consider myself both a cop and a gangster. Once in a generation corrupt cop. I consider myself both a cop and a gangster. Forget about Beverly Hills and all that other stuff. The ghetto is one of the richest neighborhoods there is. Maybe there's some way we can make money from this.

La Compañia. It's a very serious Dominican gang. $24,000 in our hands to talk. Mike was a brain. It's no problem. In his business,24,000 in our hands to talk. Mike was a brain. Is that no problem? In his business, if you mess up, you got killed. I'm a New York City cop. I'm taking a risk of going to jail for a long period of time.

And you're going to short me a dime? He's worried against mine. And I'm a cop. I'd break your neck if your neck needed breaking. I had three machines counting money, and it's still not enough time. Everybody on the floor now! There's no becoming a cop again. You're gonna have me killed.

We knew we were up against a really tough crew. A month ago, I was a regular cop, and now I'm a criminal. That's what they taught us in the police academy. Got a guy in the front, a guy in the back, got an entry team. You felt like you were God. The normal person that's doing wrong is going to have a fear of being caught. I never had a fear about getting busted. Michael Dowd did not have any fear. Because the cops around me would never give me up.

Well, guess what, folks? I'm breaking my rule, my Joe rule. We've only had two live guests since I've been doing this, Joe Mattarese and Joe Liss. But guess who's in the house right now? The Michael Dowd from the 75 precinct. Mike, thanks for coming up here, brother. I appreciate this. Let's, before, the documentary.

This is a little odd position for me. Get right on that, Mike. This is a little odd position for me to be in. You're a big cop. The cops love you. Me being here is not an easy thing. Well, they did love me when I had my free FM show, which only lasted about six months

because the station went bankrupt. Oh, okay. But, them down i don't know how that worked it was a you know you've dealt with showbiz people they didn't know what they were doing please but uh with that now but uh yeah through through my comedy uh people know you know like i lean right but obviously i'm not here to glorify what you did i fucking i i hated what you did because it makes it hard for a guy like me who defends cops to, right? I agree. I agree.

You know what I mean? It's a shitty thing. It's a shitty thing. But let's, I want to delve in, first, the movie came out in November of last year,

right? It was released. What they call a premiere or preview. The official release was actually, I want to say in May of this year,

but there was, Oh, okay. They have pre-release. It's a whole process they go through. Yes, yes. Which I'm not familiar with all that stuff, but I'm learning. Yeah. So am I.

28 years. Trust me. Like I told... He was talking about he was dealing with certain people. And I said, well, I've been in the business, 28 show business. And including me, we couldn't make it in a real world, us guys. Well, the reference that we were talking about

is because it's very difficult right now to get this movie or documentary on, it was on demand, it was on iTunes, it was on Amazon

for the last two, three months and now I can't find it myself so I'm contacting people in this industry saying, am I allowed to curse you? Yeah,

you can curse, fuck yeah. Where the fuck is my show? I mean, people are calling me up from China, California, Asia, anywhere around the world. Where's the show? We've been dying to see it.

Anywhere around the world. Dominican Republic. Yeah, they fucking sent me pigeons from France. I watched it last week, okay? On Amazon. Yeah, now it's no longer there. And so last night I sit down, I go, I'm going to do my homework

before Mike comes in today. And I go to watch it, and it says because of licensing agreements, it is no longer on Amazon. Yeah, now it's no longer there. And so last night I sit down, I go, I'm going to do my homework before Mike comes in today. And I go to watch it and it says, because of licensing agreements, it is no longer on Amazon. But my wife finds a link somewhere. I don't know what the fucking link was. It was YouTube. It's a criminal link. Yeah, whatever.

But I got to watch it. But, you know, I want to start this, before we even get into the movie, what, you know, you became a cowboy year 1982 82 before then 21 years old i want to get into your sort of your upbringing right okay okay because in the movie you know they state this guy was a born a criminal by one guy says or whatever what was your what was your upbringing like did you did you well come on i was a good kid my dad was a great man you know my family was pretty much much, I mean, we all fucked up a bit here and there. We're all human beings.

Okay. But, you know, I had a pretty good upbringing. Mom raised seven kids on Long Island, and she did a damn good job for the most part. I mean, we all make our own decisions as we get older. Yeah. I mean, you know, I went to church just like Yorel, the rat in the case. Well, that was your first mistake. No, I'm kidding.

There's a lot of mistakes I made with that. We can get into that. But the fact is that I was a good kid. I was a great student in school. I was athletic. I was a hockey player, half a star almost. I loved golf, and I loved women. So, I mean, what was wrong with me?

I was a good kid. Nothing all-American at that point. Yeah, at that point. So what was the impetus for becoming a cop especially uh you must have my my impetus was i wanted to get married wait a minute now connect the dots there what the fuck is well i needed a job to get married so i couldn't just get married live at home with mom and dad i had to have a profession that paid the rent you could have you know orange julius at the mall they were fucking hiring then you could have done that.

I mean, why in the... I guess what I'm asking is, you were probably aware of the climate. Maybe you weren't. In the 80s, of being a New York cop. I mean, crack was... Listen, I was living on Long Island and I just knew that what I saw in the news and stuff.

And there was no crack yet anyway. Crack wasn't a part of life in the early 80s. It hit the scene when I started finding it in the streets of Brooklyn. So it was not... What, late 80s? I would say 84, 85, we started finding it popping up everywhere.

And then from there, the whole... We burnt out just like the crack. Listen, I wasn't the only guy. I don't deflect. No, of course. Give me the label, the dirtiest, the most but you know they didn't take they did take down a whole precinct right after me right the dirty well yeah and of course you weren't the only one and not like you said not to justify it but if you were you you wouldn't have got as far as you did

right well clearly uh how do you do what i was doing amongst in a vacuum yeah in a vacuum so hey whatever so i i give me any moniker take the pressure off everybody else i don't give a shit yeah well i you know because i've seen subsequent interviews and um you did you did 12 years well i was sentenced to 14 you know and then that was that was a prayer because i could have gotten more probably and many people think i wish i still was in there with that but they go can go fuck themselves too. In the mood. Welcome to Meet the Press. Right.

Hello. This is going to be great. Mike curses more than I do. Well, I try not to, but sometimes I get pissed off because I hear a lot of back blow. Of course. Blow back or blow off. Whatever these people, they all want to justify their existence on my back, and I'm tired of it. Okay.

Early in the film, you talk about when you were like a cadet or the academy, they brought in a guy from internal affairs and gave a lecture, a speech to you young guys. And as soon as he left, your instructor said, look, you can do it that way. You can do it that way or you can go this way. And this way is you cover your own ass and you have a partner that you're with that will back you up no matter what you say. So you're not even on the streets yet, and you've got an instructor telling you, if you do it this way, what would be the consequences if you played by the book?

You wouldn't arrest anybody. Well, no, it's not about that. It's about the fact is that if you played by the book, then you wouldn't be a cop that anyone would really want to work with because no one really uses the book out in the street. Okay. So any fudgy gray line that you may or may not cross so the people at black lives matter are right oh no no no let's not get crazy here we'll get to that at

the end i'm bringing that up again i want to go to there at the end no all lives matter of course okay so but but but what is black white chinese asian green and blue they all matter but you're saying a lot of but majority of cops don't play by the rules. No, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is there's always some, what do you call it,

discretion out there. Personal discretion, sure. Discretion that's afforded every officer and, you know, the problem is when they take their own discretion

and what I did was bend it to a criminality which is basically shaking down drug dealers rather than scooting them along or moving them from a location.

I actually acquiesced, gave them the spot, but took their money. Where did you... But you grew up in like a suburb of Long Island. Right. So where do you get the street smarts? Because you've... Watching this documentary, you took to it like a fish to water, this criminality. But you did.

I mean, that's why I asked about your upbringing. I don't... You know? It's like... Well, you know, a one of seven you know in my own household i had to negotiate to get a little extra pie or some extra was it like that well i mean you know you know what it is is you know you become uh i don't know if it's what they call it sociopathic i mean yeah a little bit you learn how to separate yourself from the feelings of others in some respects because you need to survive.

So, you know, and I learned how to survive amongst, you know, my own people and then the people in the street. Don't ask me why I was good at it, but I was damn good at it. I did it in prison, too, 12 and a half years. I survived that. You know, there were some shaky moments there as well, but I learned to adapt. We'll get to that. How about the guys in your academy in your class your classmates did a lot of them uh go the same way you did right after that speech i i'm still i'm still hung up on this do you have a guy from internal affairs come in and he leaves and your instructor

is like don't listen to that shit so how much of the class went the way you did probably 40 i mean no kidding i'm saying that in jest i mean you know uh put it So how much of the class went the way you did? Probably 40%. I mean, I'm saying that in jest. I mean, you know, put it this way. One of the lessons you learn in the police academy is they say, look around you from left to right, center and back. One of the four of you will make 20 years. The others will either get injured, get killed, resign, or go to jail. Right.

You know, so, I mean, that's part of the instruction in the academy. So, you know, really, so there's 40 guys in a class or 35 guys jail. Right. You know, so, I mean, that's part of the instruction in the academy. So, you know, really, so there's 40 guys in a class or 35 guys in a class. So you look around, you go one in four is making it, you know, to 20 and the chips fall

where they may afterward. And it's just a fact, you know. So I was one of the ones that went the other way. Unfortunately, I mean, I probably wouldn't have had some people not jam me up. Is that common?

They throw the rookies into the worst priest? It is. I think they do it today, don't they? Well, you know, I don't know what they do today because I'm not out there. No one really wants to invite me back to their local PBA meetings. However, I'm pretty observant, and I see what they do. I mean, you know, what it is is those priesthoods have a lot of turnover. The high crime priesthoods have a lot of turnover. The high-crime precincts have a lot of turnover

because guys actually get promoted out of there quite quickly into homicide or other details in the job because they're so skilled at such a young age. Don't forget, if you don't learn how to survive in the ghetto, you're not going to survive. And if you do survive it, you become quite the valuable commodity to the department. Yeah, it reminds me of like the movie Platoon

or any Vietnam movie with these young 18-year-old kids. They throw them right into the mix. Did you shit when you found out you were being assigned to the 75th? I cried on my way down Sutter Avenue. I was like, oh my God, I should have stayed in college. My mother was right. Really? Oh, fuck yeah.

I ain't gonna lie. At that point, you were aware. I don't need to lie. No, of course not. Even though you were pretty good at it at the, fuck yeah. I ain't going to lie. At that point, you were aware. I don't need to lie. No, of course not. Even though you were pretty good at it at the time. Well, I don't need to anymore. No, I know.

It's very freeing, I'll tell you. Is this like cathartic? It's always cathartic when I speak about it because it helps to get over it. Not only get over it,

but to be able to share because often, I mean, no one wants to hear your stories when you walk around prison yards for 12 and a half years. And when I was in the police department, I certainly couldn't share with too many people in there. Right. You know, although I tried.

Because you may end up in jail, as I did anyway. Yeah. So, yeah, it is cathartic in a sense. And you know what it is? I lost a big brotherhood, and it's really hurtful. So choices I made cost me a lot. Well, that's what I was going to say. I mean, you must miss.

It's like athletes when they retire. They miss that camaraderie, and people have your back. Right. Right was going to say. I mean, you must miss. It's like athletes when they retire. They miss that camaraderie and people have your back. Right. Right? Yeah. Right. I mean, I lost it all. You give it all up.

It's a heavy cost, by the way. You know, we can make lighter things here. This is a half comedical type show here. But the fact is what I did was very serious. It was very wrong. I paid dear consequences. My family has paid for it. They continue to pay for it.

My brothers paid for it. My mother and father didn't want to say their last name in fucking store lines and groceries. Oh, yeah. I mean to pay for it. My brothers paid for it. My mother and father didn't want to say their last name in fucking store lines and groceries. Oh, yeah. I mean, just, they lived a horrific life. Yeah, collateral damage

is horrendous. Collateral damage was, it still goes on. Today, I'm still failing the effects of it. I'm having a difficult time getting steady employment. So, we can go on and on

with all that nonsense, but the fact is that, you know, I made choices and they all have consequences. And if unfortunate things, the consequences aren't just your own, they happen to others as well. Yeah, the ripple effect. Ripple effect. you know i made choices and they all have consequences and if unfortunate things the consequences aren't just your own they happen to others as well yeah yeah that ripple effect

the rock in the lake effect uh so um let's talk about the first time you know in the movie there's another cop chicky right i love chicky now he was with you the night uh i guess you guys get a call about a burglary you get there it's a young girl her house is broken into her apartment chicky wasn't there that was kenny that was that no that that story that's in that that's a fucked up story okay when you reach up yeah yeah yeah tell the kid tell the story here's the deal here's how it actually went down okay now everyone's gonna get mad about so this is different than what how they tell in the movie slightly slightly different listen the movie is 140-something minutes,

so an hour and 40 minutes. An hour and 40 minutes, 105 minutes. 105 minutes, right. So they can't tell the story the way it is. It wasn't Chicky. It was Barney Fife. It was Yorel, yeah, the detective. Oh, it was Yorel, all right.

Yeah. Yorel and I had just hooked up an hour earlier. We made an agreement that we were going to do the right thing for each other and make a lot of money. This is how the world works. Let me stop you there. But Yorel, he came into the department after you did.

No, he came in before me. Yeah. I think he had a year before me. But he, okay. In 81. Oh, in the movie it says, I thought he came in after you and he heard about you and your wild reputation.

No, no, no. He came back to the 75. He broke a sergeant's arm. Oh, okay. He broke a sergeant's hand. Oh, that's not in the movie. Yeah, there's a lot of shit not in the movie.

But the movie will have a lot of... Well, tell me about this. Well, I mean, where do you want to go here? Let's go right to the point. Fuck all that other stuff. The fact is,

what you asked me was about this shakedown of the young girl or whatever. Yeah. Wasn't that the first time Kenny saw that side of you? Well, that was the first... The fact is what you asked me was about this shakedown of the young girl or whatever. Wasn't that the first time Kenny saw that side of you? Well, we had just set it all up. We were going to go rock and roll. We're going to make it happen.

We get a job. I'm going to lay it out for you. Someone must have hit a block. Follow this through. Someone must have hit a block and burglarized a block. They go down the chain of houses. Hit, hit, hit, hit, hit. You must have had someone looking out, whatever.

We get a call. We roll up on a house, hit, hit, hit, hit. You must have someone looking out, whatever. We get a call. We roll up on a house that was just hit. We walk inside. We look around. The house is in good order. It's not an obvious drug dealer house. But, you know, sometimes it may be, it may not be. But by that, you mean usually there's boxes of shoes and excess clothing and excess furniture and gobs of shit in these houses.

Right. Because the drug dealers, they just have money to spend. And, you know, these homes in East New York, which some of them are very nice, by the way, they would load them up with their booty, let's call it. Their swag. Their swag.

So you would know immediately. But this case was not quite that clear. So whatever. We just took a poke around and I pick up a guy's briefcase and I put my hand in and out of it. I'm looking for bags of money. If you remember,

if you've seen a documentary, I'm describing bags of money. Yeah, and you get excited even then in the documentary when you talk, your eyes light up and I go,

this guy must have, in his heyday, must have been fucking. It was great. I love, money's good, you know? Money's good.

It just causes a lot of problems. Yeah, because we don't get enough of it. So anyway, I end up missing this little knot of like a $10,000, $11,000 knot. I'm not looking for someone's fucking life-saving stash. I'm looking for some fucking major smacko and stacko. I'm not looking for no little shit.

So the kid runs in the house and finds the money. Oh, thank God. They didn't get my money young boy yeah you know 20 21 year old kid so kenny looks at me like i fucking ate the burr ate that was the uh the the cat that ate the fucking canary i'm like what are you talking about he goes i'm not talking to you anymore what the fuck man he goes that guy had 11 000 dollars and had a house and you didn't take it. You're setting me up, motherfucker. I'm like, dude, take it easy.

What are you talking about? He goes, you're fucking, you're with Internal Affairs. I know you are. You set me up. We had this conversation an hour ago. We're going to start making money. Now you missed $11,000 in this one house. You're fucking setting me up.

I said, oh, take it. This is totally different than the documentary. Totally different. No one has a clue. Holy shit. I was misled by watching this shit last night. So I walk in. Now I'm fucking walking on eggs.

I finally got this guy to work with me. And now he's already doubting me. Things aren't going to go well. How long did it take you to convince him to work with you? It took about a month. It took about a month. It took about a month. It was like, you know, because we kept getting put together

by accident. They kept putting, or on purpose, they kept putting us together, putting us together, either that or... Now, was he really, because in the film,

he was reluctant to, he said, quit putting Mike in my car. This guy's bad news. He was reluctant. Yeah, but he didn't mean bad news. I was rogue. He thought I was wearing a wire.

Him and all his fucking crony friends in the douchebag squad. This is breaking news, folks. Yeah, yeah. They thought I was wearing a wire and

working for Internal Affairs, which I wasn't. But the fact is that because they thought I was wearing a wire and working for Internal Affairs,

they didn't want to mix their shit with my shit. They went across swords in the fucking, in the piece, pee hole there. They wanted to make sure

things were straight on their end, not mine, and that I wasn't going to come in and fuck up their ride. So, Kenny had no partner because his partner

got promoted or something like that. I think he, Frankie, I said, one of these guys. Anyways, he got promoted

to sergeant in Kenny because he was a big collar guy because he'd lock up anybody in the fucking world because he did it for money. That was Kenny's money ticket. He locked up people and made a lot of money on overtime. So he was robbing the system too, just in a different way.

So now I showed him a way to make money without locking people up. And he could actually go home and spend time with his wife, which I heard wasn't a good time anyway. So now we go back to the gig and I missed this fucking $10,000, right? He thinks I'm setting him up right away. So we go out in the car. He says, don't talk to me. I have good money. You take me right back to the gig and I missed this fucking $10,000, right? He thinks I'm setting him up right away. So we go out in the car. He says, don't talk to me. I have good money.

Take me right back to the fucking station house. And like two minutes later, a call comes in, burglary. What was your answer to him when he was accused of that? I'm like,

why did you miss the 11 grand? I said, I'm not looking for fucking $11,000. I'm looking for 50, 80, 100,000 in drug dealer money. I'm not looking

for someone's little knot that they saved, for Christ's sakes. To him, that was the fucking world. $11,000 was the world. Right, right. He never saw $11,000 at one time. Right. Unless it was someone counting their communion money or something. Yeah.

But anyway, so I'm on to the next job. I'm like, we're going to the next job. I'm like, this guy don't want to talk to me. He's fucking mad. It's a burglary down the block, whatever. Roll in there and I'm like,

does your mother hide any money around here? You know, I'm trying to win this guy's confidence back. So the girl goes, I don't know, let me call her.

So she calls her mother. Her mother tells her, yeah, it's in the closet under the Bible or something. This is a young girl whose house got burglarized. Yeah, Kenny Mason.

Look, he wanted to hug her. Fucking piece of shit. Anyway, he could give a fuck about her. So, you know, we have the little girl. I feel bad. I want to pay the girl 10 times the money if I see her again, for Christ's sakes. Believe me when I tell you that.

Yeah. I never lived this down. I got sentenced. The judge was mad about this, too. I was mad. But anyway, so I stick my hand in. I palm the money. I put it in my pocket. So was mad. But anyway, so I stick my hand in, I palm the money, I put it in my pocket.

So that when I got outside and sat in the car with Kenny, I threw him half the money, whatever it was. You know, it could have been 200, it could have been 800, I don't fucking know.

All I know is whatever it was, I gave him half. And you did that to let Kenny know that you were good. Yeah, I was good. And so Kenny was like, he could bleed a sigh of relief. So he was like, he was fucking excited now.

All right, all right. Because I'm not going to walk out of someone's house and hand them money if I'm wearing a wire. I mean, that's not going to happen. So P.S., from there forward, we started to rock and roll. But, you know, poor thing was that I had to take advantage of this innocent young girl and her trust in the fucking police, which, you know, she could have trusted me

99.9% of the time, but I had to get past this Kenny bullshit to get his confidence back. And now I'm a douchebag, so. Yeah, it's,

you know. So it starts, all right, that's. You know, what do you do? It is what it is. I have to accept

responsibility for being a slick ass on some young, young girl who was, you know, probably admired the police and I fucked that up for her. Then you,

now this is before you run into Baron Perez, right? This is before you run. I had already known and had a small relationship. Baron Perez, folks who haven't seen the movie,

he had a, he put, Auto Sound City, put stereos in there. And obviously, we know who likes big speakers. Yeah, he had the whole,

the whole drug package going on. All his clients, a lot of his clients are drug addicts. Well,. And obviously, we know who likes big speakers. Yeah, he had the whole drug package going on. All his clients, a lot of his clients are drug guys. Well, not 90%, because, you know, who spends $15,000 or $20,000 on gooseneck? I got to have you stay close to that. On gooseneck equalizes. You want to move the chair? Gooseneck equalizes. Remember the gooseneck equalizes and all that shit back then?

Yeah. You know, that was like the coolest thing in the world, you know. and all that shit back then. That was like the coolest thing in the world. They had the goosenecks and they had amplifiers. Oh, man, they had some big, huge systems. So a lot of his clients, Perez's clients, were drug dealers, and that's how you meet him. Did you do business with him?

Not really. He turned you on to Diaz. Right, right. You know what it is? He was sometimes a middleman, but mostly it wasn't him. He basically had the location where people could meet. Which was where? It was like going to the bar friend where everybody knows your name.

So you could go into Barron's shop, and it was like neutral ground. They would settle disputes amongst each other there. Barron would be like the mayor between them. You know, okay, you guys owe each other money. Why don't you pay it out instead of shoot it out? I mean, if you think about it,

and this is ironic, and this is the truth, by the way, and people don't really, they don't give a fuck what I have to say, but the fact is the crime rate was lower

when we were there running this than... Before you got there? No. Or after? After we left. After you left. The homicides went from

85 a year to 100, 105 a year right after we left there. Because we were sort of mediating a lot of the disputes and sort of controlling a lot of the activity. By the way, we didn't mention, yeah, I mean, this was literally the worst precinct in the country crime-wise. Right. There was 1,000 shootings a year. 1,000 shootings a year just in the precinct.

Right. In this precinct. So, you know, usually one in 10 dies is about the number, you know. Right. So that's 100. Yeah, about a hundred bodies. So you have Baron Perez. And what did you do with him?

Did you make any money with him or no? He was small fry. He introduced you to him. Well, Baron made money with us because what he did was he hooked us up with this guy, La Compania. Right. Cello. Cello. Cello.

Cello boy. And, you know, the guy approached him, and, well, I think Barron is a professional middleman. You know, he knows how to make deals happen. So he put Cello with us, where we never had to meet, and they made- Tell the people who Cello. Cello was a guy who ran a major drug organization up on Norwood and Fulton, and- He's Dominican. He was a Dominican

drug cold-hearted killer drug kingpin had like 20-30 homicides to his record you know that they know of

and he ended up shorting me a dime he tried shorting me a fucking dime was that the first payment that he shorted you on and boy did that fucking

I was sort of laughing again like Mike says none of this is that funny but when i mike was furious that i mean you're risking you're risking uh you know your life your career everything you're gonna go away right and this guy shorts you he shorts me a fucking dime on the first payment seven hundred dollars short see uh so what's happening mike and and kenny right now are protecting this guy. Yeah, we're protecting this guy. What we're doing

is we just told him, yeah, go ahead. Fourth of July weekend's going to be really easy on you because the cops are on

details. He's like, can I go full bore on Fourth of July? That's all he wanted to know. So I went, yeah. But you did a lot

of other shit with him. No, no. Cello was a one shot pony. It was a one trick pony. That was the

Diaz organization where we got a little deep and we did a lot of things for him. A lot. Move him around, different locations. But Cello, which started the whole... It gave us a taste of what we could get and then we sort of had to lay the groundwork that we weren't going to...

Kenny could give a fuck. He was just in the car for a ride, by the way. What do you mean? He just sat there and went like this, yes or no. You know, like, Mike, okay, yes, whatever Mike says. You know, just. You were the brains of the operation. Well, brains.

Even Diaz says that in the movie. You know, Kenny's had nothing to say. It's just, yeah, he wants to make the money. He was willing to, it was willing to co-sign on anything I said because I needed a willing partner. Let me say, everybody that talks about you, okay, then and in the movie, it was your, you were fearless. You didn't give a fuck.

You just, you weren't, where does that come from? I don't know. Look, again, I don't know. Because you used it for bad, but in most, you know, any other aspects of life,

it would be an admirable quality. Right, right. Where did you get that? Was your mother a brazen? Your dad was just like that? I'm just curious. Was it in your blood or did you fucking,

it was a survival technique. It's a survival technique. You know what it was? I probably was, I probably didn't think I belonged in the police department at such a young, immature age.

And I figured if I'm going to do this, I better be fearless because otherwise I might as well just go home and not come to work because it was fucking scary. So I just said,

it's either all or nothing. Either you're in or you're out you know there's no half way oh I mean I just there you go therapy 101

no you're right I just maybe come to terms with I mean I wasn't a big guy at the time no but there's other cops every cop that when your name comes up

they're like he didn't give a fuck he was fearless and I just want to know where that quality came from and uh yeah well you know like I said

I had tears in my eyes driving down Sutter Avenue That was out of fright I was scared to death I wanted to go home I'm done playing I was done playing Ma

I'm done here Give me here Take the ball back The bat I'm done Let's go And then after about a month Took about a month

Maybe three weeks I began to feel comfortable there And realized that this only That's it? A month? That's all it took you? Well, you're better. Oh, you're dead.

You're fucking better. My first week or two, I was involved in some stabbings. Not me personally, but I handled stabbings and shootings and rapes. All within my first two weeks. I probably had two or three shootings, one homicide right in front of my face. And I was like Man it's sink or swim dude You know

You're in This is it Yeah cause you mentioned In the movie You guys are taking calls And you can hear gunshots You're not even In the background

From other calls And I mean Sometimes you would sit there On a fucking Tuesday Tuesday's in the ghetto I don't know why But it was a Tuesday It was a special

Fat Tuesday Tuesday was a special night And PH We'd sit there With a fucking tuesdays tuesdays in the ghetto i don't know why but it was a tuesday was a fat fat tuesday they say was a special night and we'd sit there with the window open right around 10 30 at night just before you get ready to change shifts at 11 30 and we'd sit there and like in the quiet of the night and just with the window open you'd hear pa pa pa pa pa pa you're like now you're waiting for the fucking radio to go off and say you know five adam five john five charlie whatever it is respond to a shooting at such and such. And guess what? 90% of the time, no call came in. No shit, huh?

No one even fucking bothered calling the police. No kidding. Yeah, this is the truth. Yeah, and you hear that today about Chicago and other areas. What happened? They didn't call the police. Oh, why? What the fuck?

You know, they just don't. Yeah. They just don't. You know, that's just the way it was. I mean, this is the crack epidemic of the 80s. We had scenes where seven, eight people were shot and murdered. You know, we had the, what do you call it, the Palm Sunday Massacre. They had 10 or 11 people in one family were murdered.

You know. And what was it like the first time you walked into something like that? It make you, like you said, you're like. It's like a first time you walked into something like that and make you like you said you're like a wax museum oh my God that's a good way of playing museum just people like not moving just blood and but like it it's so it was like actually old by the time I saw it probably like yeah 12 hours 18 I was old by the time I walked in on it because this thing eventually took it was took that particular one I'm referring to

took place over a 24 hour period I guess or something like that so by the time we saw it it was almost a day old and you know that's just all eerie

and fucking like just skeletons looking at you with their eyes open shit and like you said it contributed to you you feel useless it's like putting a finger

in a dike there's so much crime you're answering a call but 10 more would come in five minutes later yeah so you know

some people refer to some of this slightly exaggerated but like in the movie they refer to and Chickie's talking about they're holding 200 jobs

and shit and people like he's talking about like 4th of July weekend and shit like that you know so and so they clip that in

you know you're holding a job robberies murders raids burglaries shootings you know, family disputes. On 4th of July, you're getting 200, 300 job backlogs.

So we would just tell Central, give us the first 100. Give us 100 jobs, Central. Because it's all the same bullshit. 90 X-ray, 90 zebra, 90 X-ray, 90 zebra. Unfounded or gone on arrival unfounded gone on arrival you know we end up you know every fucking time someone shoots a firecracker off they call 9-1-1 now you got a job so we wanted to clear the shit out of the way and get on to real jobs so anyway and you you took i know you mentioned you took like 200 and uh was it 250 calls a month

right that was the average yes on a 4 to 12 shift. Maybe more, really. And I backed up on another 250. So now... So I was active still. Okay. So that's why I got away with what I did in a lot of ways,

if you think about it. So you were still doing your job. I was doing my job. I was probably, I hate to say this, I was a damn good cop. Damn good. I was damn good.

Ask Kenny, the scumbag. He'd cosign on that, I'm sure. I was a damn good cop. I knew how to handle the street.. He'd co-sign on that, I'm sure. I was a damn good cop. I knew how to handle the street. And you sort of picked that up in the part of this interview. You seem somewhat fearless. Well, you know, fearless, reckless, whatever the proper word is. Survival instinct, but

a lot of, you know, a lot of cops, I guess, you know, like I said, every time they brought your name up, you had the same thing. He didn't give a fuck. He was going to do it his way. Ba-ba-ba. I made a good president. right yeah right shit let's do that let's do that next let's go yeah mike dowd yeah right don't start that so so perez introduces you to a heavy hitter this adam diaz guy right well first i faced off with cello in the street because he shorted us you know the fucking oh that's right the movie gets into that a bit you know i the guy put a hit on me and you pull him over i pulled him over that same day

i never met the guy never saw him once but i saw his car and you knew it was a porsche you knew right away it wasn't a porsche that was adams ds had the porsche this guy had a renault a renault yeah but it was like a fucking drug dealer was tricked out was it tricked out yeah he was a cheap adam made fun of him right Adam makes fun of him In a movie He could fucking buy And sell him right Whatever

Pulled the guy over In a Volkswagen Beetle Yeah So you pull the guy over The same day you found out He had a hit out on you Or shortly Same day

That day What the fuck is that I just And tell Okay tell the people How you confronted this guy Well I I was working with

I can't Listen I could be lying Because I'm not I don't recall who I was working with. I believe I was working with someone, not Kenny, because he was never around when shit was really important. I'm sensing some animus. Now, I know, I saw an interview where you hugged the guy since. You've hugged Kenny since. Yes, no, you know what it is. And kissed him made up.

But you sound like you have a real bean in bought it some of it well i've been here some strong talking i've been asked not to fucking say certain things about him and his relationship whatever and it's unfair to me to have to check myself for certain things because the problem is he's never had to check himself and he wrecked me so i have to check myself so I don't hurt some feelings out there. And you know what? It's okay. I'm an adult now. I can do that, but it bothers my core because I'm a little visceral.

It's about certain things. Of course. One of these things, when my son was a young kid, he got abused because of his daddy. Someone else's family took off to Florida, and no no one knew them and they lived a charmed life you know with the pension that i helped them get you know three-quarters disability for the rest of his fucking life yeah and my kids were on welfare but you think he'd send a fucking dollar hey you know i put your daddy away or helped okay i feel like dr melvin here we got to the core of this issue all right well so the bottom line is is some thumb something's still to the core of this issue. All right. Well, so the bottom line is

something's still sticking in my core. Of course. Okay? It's a life-changing event. Really? How about, so now you pull this guy over, this fucking... I pull this guy over,

and I tell him, listen, the license plate, he don't know who I am. He's never met me. So he's got a surprise waiting for him. I got my gun looped in my finger. I mean, I had my hand pressed inside my fucking, in my, back then we had the swivel holsters with the real gun,

the Smith & Wesson 38 Special. Real fucking police gun, okay? And I had my hand in the holster and I just was ready to, all I had to do was point. My holster and my gun in my hands were so, I mean, in East New York you took a gun out 10, 15 times a day, okay? No shit. Yeah.

So my gun was so worn and the fucking loop and the finger and the thumb. I had a pen next to the... I had a pen holder was in my gun holster. I didn't even have a fucking pen holder. There's too much room on your belt because you look like a rookie with all that stupid shit on your belt. So I got just a gun and some bullets and some handcuffs that's it okay i put my hand in there and i was ready to fucking shoot him right in the car because i'm thinking he's gonna maybe pull out his gun or if i just see a gun he's dead i'm whacking of course i'm whacking him he's fucking

put a hit on me he's dead but fortunate for him he hands me some papers and i look at him he doesn't know who i am and i just i don't even look at the fucking papers I just throw the papers why did he put the hit out on you again? because he he shorted us 700 on the first payout right and I told Baron

to tell him he needs to make good on the money and he said tell them to go fuck themselves they're not getting paid we're even so I said fine

so I I told him I planted I planted myself in front of his his bodega for fucking five days. And I had a crew on the evening shift come in when I was working a day shift. On the evening shift, they'd come in and plant themselves in front of his store for five days. I gave them a grand on the side.

They don't even know what the fuck they were doing. I just told them, park there. And he loved that. He mentioned it in the movie. He goes, what a great idea. He was praising you. He goes, we never had any problems. He, Mikey parked that car up front,

blah, blah, blah. But this was to put heat on Cello. Right. The other guy. The fucking guy for not paying me. Right. That was a different take on it. I parked in front of Cello's.

Oh, okay. Yeah, I parked in front of Cello's spot so his business went sour. No one would come to his spot to buy drugs. That's right. So then he puts a hit on me. And he says, tell that fucking cop i'm putting a hit on him he tells baron or i don't even know baron told me i don't know if they even had a discussion so you pull cello so i pull

cello over and i throw the papers back in his fucking face you put a hit on me let's go motherfucker let's do it right yeah right now or shut the fuck up okay so now where this is what they're talking about the other car where the does that come from i mean that was i mean that that take that's like almost reckless what if you well yeah well whatever i was gonna kill him i mean because he's gonna listen he threatened my existence right this this was a money crime between the two of them right he wasn't paying i was putting pressure on him now he's gonna whack me you i going to whack you because now you're threatening my life. I'm threatening your money business because you're not paying me.

If you pay me, I step back. He wouldn't pay me. So how does this interaction end? It ends with the car. Well, he just looked at me, and I told him, call it off, and I walked away. If you want to do it, I'm here. Get out now. Yeah, you like challenge him

to a duel on the street. Well, we'll do the Mexican standoff, you know, under the fucking L. Fucking Aaron Burr. Under the L. We're going to go under the L at fucking like 6.30 at night and just shoot it out.

Whatever you want to do. I said, we'll do a pace off right here, I told him. You see, it's a better man wins, I told him. He's all fucking panicky

and then all of a sudden I get a fucking page. So you made a drug deal of nervous. So I panicked. So my beeper goes off. And about an hour later or so, my beeper goes off. Baron, I go, what's up? He goes, come to the shop.

I go to the shop. I walk in. He goes, I got a call from Shallow. He says, the hit's off. And he says, here. He throws a fucking bag at me. I go, what's that? He goes, count it.

What he owed you? Count it. Right instead of dying? It was the $ fucking bag at me. I go, what's that? He goes, count it. What, he owed you? Count it. Right set of dimes? It was the seven fucking hundred dollars he owed me. So, listen, you know, if you're going to sell your soul, you got to pay the full freight, bro. Well, no. That's exactly right. Come on.

That's what you said. You're going to show me your dime? You can't do that. So that's how it went, yeah. But then we hooked up with Diaz and things got a little bit nicer. You know, Diaz was a gentleman. This Diaz, folks, this guy bit nicer You know Diaz was a gentleman This Diaz folks This guy's right out of Central Casting

What a fucking character this guy He's the guy with the supermarket right The bodega Yeah yeah He had a couple of them He had about three or four of them Yeah Yeah yeah

But you can get anything you want In his bodega remember Yeah In the video You can get anything You can get milk bread You can get diapers Yeah

You can get diapers or a kilo, whatever. Yeah, he was looking good. He was young, 20, 21 years old. He has since been deported, right? Right, well, he ended up getting pinched eventually, like everybody. But this is when you really started making dough. Well, what it was, it was a steady... This is the protection money.

It was the protection, it was steady flow, it was $8, thousand a week for how'd you decide on that figure i even thought that was low it was low by the way but i didn't know i don't know why i don't know i know you're a young guy i know there's no manual to teach you how to do this who's gonna tell me how much it's worth well mccluskey's dead by the way from the guy yeah how did i know i didn't know i didn't know diaz was making a hundred grand a week himself cash clear out if i had that, I would have said I want 20%, 25%, whatever, you know? Yeah. Because I was risking my whole entire career, as we find out, and, you know. Wasn't he making a lot more than that, though?

He was pocketing $100,000 a week, plus paying his people, you know, salaries and stuff like that. Because, well, in the movie, it puts up, it says Kelo was going for like $34,000. Yeah, but. He was doing 300 kilos a week Is that fudging the numbers? Yeah but some of the numbers are not quite accurate Back then the kilo price had dropped down to 11,000 a kilo Why's that?

Because it was so much of it Supply and demand Fucking ridiculous So you buy a kilo Like you see him refer to If you pay for that kilo 20,000 The price goes down You gotta pay the 20,000

you can't pay yeah he said that oh he was dead yeah well he was getting fucking whacked Escobar would show up Escobar yeah

that's what I meant to him yeah he said I was getting Escobar's kilos Jesus that's a lot of pressure to move product

yeah so he had to and then what happened was they were undercutting each other from one side of the street to the other so we get the phone call Mike the fucking guy across the street

selling kilos for 1111,200. I'm selling them for $11,500 and I can't compete with the guy. Now I'm losing money. I've got to pay my help. I've got to pay my rent, my stores and shit. And he comes to you complaining about this? So he comes to me complaining,

the guy across the street. Like you're the fucking regional manager? Yeah, so he went in and we told him that we're going to shut them down, put them in jail. They went, oh, they were scared. So the guy stopped selling for a little bit. And back to, you know, in other words, keep your price at the right range around here

or you're going to cause problems. You're going to go to jail or whatever. You're going to get robbed. And you took that eight grand a week and you bought a condo in Myrtle Beach. No, no, that was way before I bought the condo. Oh, that was your first school. My first score My solo It was a solo act school

We took a kilo From the Panamanians Fucking Noriega's people For real Noriega's people Were shipping kilos In the early 80's Like this is

Before the crack shit happened Okay In like 83, 84 We clipped a guy With a kilo In um Up on Atlantic Avenue Right off

Van Sicklen in Atlantic This kid robbed Someone at a subway and the kid runs in the house with a.357 Magnum. It's his house. It's his daddy's house. But he's a Panamanian, people.

They're new in the neighborhood, so this kid was just trying to be a little young gangster. Took someone's Kango hat. Back then, the Kango hat was a big thing, you know? He robbed his kid's Kango hat. A Kango hat.

He robbed a Kango hat. That's worth dying over. Yeah, right. So he robs a Kango hat runs in his old man's house and we break in the house whatever and

how did that happen and I go in the basement and there it is a fucking whole shop set up I can't find any any any perico

perico no perico there so then I fucking I found a briefcase that looked like like a guitar guitar case over there Solid wood Hard heavy

Oh there's gotta be Something here It's locked In the basement Under a Under a curtain Fucking Covered

Closet I open it up I pull out This thing is like 30 fucking pounds I mean holy shit So I start cutting it With an axe

Oh yeah I couldn't get I couldn't get this shit out I couldn't walk the shit out. I couldn't walk out with the briefcase. They'd say, where's the briefcase? You know? So I had to start a pill for shit.

But you got it open. Oh, yeah, I got it open. It took me about five minutes. You got it open, next thing I get a condo. I got it open and I went and bought a condo with it. So more with Diaz, because this is when you really get into it right um yeah well you know diaz uh it turned things around it made things a little bit more like gentlemanly he said to you and this is to me one of the the most important statements in the movie when he met you and kenny he goes i look at kenny i could tell he was a fucking cop there was something wrong

coming from a gang but he looked at you and he goes, this guy's like me. That's crazy. And guys like Dia, they really can read people. That's how they survive. So that's what I'm saying. I'm just wondering. And I knew he was like me too. You did, right?

Yeah. As soon as I saw him, I said, all right, we're all right. Really? We're going to be all right. So he knew. He showed up with the bag of money. That was the whole idea. He showed up with that bag of money.

He thought it was ironic that he had to gain my trust, or I had to... In other words, he was showing up with a bag of money to buy my trust. No, I wanted him to show up with a bag of money so we'd show how he was serious. Right. You know, you just don't get protection. You've got to fucking pay for the protection, number one. Right. And you've got to be seriously invested in it.

And he showed up with the cash. So how long were you on his, you know, the eight grand a week? It wasn't a very long period of time, I would say. You know, the steady flow was probably about three to four months. And then he began having problems with this guy Franklin and Coke. They were robbing him. Yes. And a lot of shit went down.

That was crazy. A lot of shit went down with that. And we started changing locations. And they disappeared, by the way, those guys, Franklin and Cokelin i have no idea what happened no i know you don't not take i know you don't i'm calling diaz today i'm not taking any responsibility for them i put it this way i didn't touch them i will say that but um but i can't believe there's people out there crazy enough to fucking rob somebody like diaz i mean just like they didn't take what're all up on drugs they're all up that's right his name was who let him in the back door and the guy i know one guy's name is coke are you me what's the other guy straw

yeah franklin and coke that's my friend kenny mirror yeah i know elvis was was a little bit of a softy soft touch so they they went that's how they they this guy named elvis and he's the first singer he's the first guy To start squealing By the fucking Yeah His name is Elvis He I get a phone You don't even know

I get a fucking call From one of the guys Cops Mike I'm getting I'm getting called in To internal affairs I said for what He goes

That That Van Sicklen In Atlantic The bodega That thing that went down Some guys up there Was dropping your name

So I said oh oh, really? So you're telling me this and you're getting called in. They haven't called me in. So, I mean, how fucked up are these people anyway? So, I mean, why would you tell a cop that they're asking questions about me? You know, you just fucking, either you want

me to know? I mean, just think about what I'm telling you. The cops that were going in for the fucking to to assist the district attorney's office and all that were telling me they're asking about you dowd and fucking me in a thing like like what are you in isolation from each other the guy's coming back to work with me right and then the sector car i end up with i end up with him in my car this kid kid one day. When Armstrong came in, the lieutenant came in after us. The stories are endless.

I can go on and on with the things that happened. And, you know, it's just amazing. Now, in 1986, another precinct, the 77th, like 13 guys get hauled out of there. Right. And so that scared off, like, Chickie said, that's enough for me. Chickie ran. He said, fuck that. But you, Captain partner captain balls again you're like cherry ran four guys went to nassau two guys went to suffolk as soon as they got the chance to bounce it boom ba-bing ba-bang

but it was like it was like it's like dropping a bar of soap in pepper oh yeah yeah it all scatters yeah it takes off yeah but you. You went right towards the soap. I stood right in the middle and held on to the list. And Kenny was still with you, right, at this point? Well, Kenny wasn't even working with us in the early part, the 86. Kenny was still in the fucking. That's right. In the 88 precinct.

Which precinct was he in? 88. He was in the 88. He did a, of course, he broke a sergeant's hand in the 75 because the sergeant pointed at him. See that? Now, that wasn't in the movie. What happened there? Well, I don't know. Listen, that wasn't in the movie. What happened there?

Well, I don't know. Listen, I wasn't there. Oh, come on. You know what happened. Well, the sergeant pointed at Kenny, and it got in his face, and Kenny grabbed his hand and broke it. So they shipped Kenny off to fucking Neverland. Broke a sergeant's hand.

Yeah. They shipped. Well, I got. He wasn't a shrinking violet either, let's be honest. Yeah, well, you know. Hey, listen. He got street credibility for that, okay? That gave him some street credibility. Sure. You know, he be honest. Yeah, well, you know, listen. He got street credibility for that, okay? That gave him some street credibility.

Sure. You know, he fucking stood up to a boss, you know? He wouldn't stand up to a fucking inmate or a fucking internal affairs, but he stood up to a boss because he was probably bigger than the guy. You start doing robberies, right, with Diaz, you'd see a building with narcotics would show up or something. Right. So you know.

Well, what it is is we- Who's this guy, Walter? Walter, yeah. Who is that scary fuck? He's a cop. He's a scary fuck, Walter. He's a scary fuck. What happened was they got pinched earlier.

Who did? Walter, Chickie, and Jeff get pinched for shaking down a bodega. Okay, which wasn't in the movie. Right. Well, they cut that out of the movie because they just didn't have enough time to put it all out there. That's why you see Chicky and Walter in my movie, in the 7-5 movie,

because Chicky, Walter, and Jeff end up doing a shakedown. They went in as cops, tossed a fucking bodega. None of them were cops anymore except for Walter. Walter was doing a midnight shift in the 7-5.

He worked the same beat. And they hit this place twice. Not once, but twice. By the way, Walter's 6'5", 290. Yeah. And his hand is literally the size of my head. What a scary motherfucker. Where was he from?

Born right in the Bronx? No, West Islip. He was from Long Island. Once again, this confirms. It's one of the scariest fucking places on Earth. Yeah, so anyway. They love me down there. Yeah, he's good. So he... So you guys, places on Earth. Yeah, so anyway. They love me down there. Yeah, he's good.

So he... So you guys, yeah. They do a shakedown. They get busted. They all... It was a big thing on the news, whatever. Cops and stuff. And they were looking for two more.

They figured that Kenny and I were involved with this whole thing, which we technically weren't, although I did get the fucking drugs later on from the shakedown that they took. So I did... So was I involved? I didn't plan it. I wasn't involved in doing it. But I did end up with the drugs from it because they wanted to offer the drugs to somebody.

And I had the market. So I got the drugs. I made them $2,500 or whatever it was for whatever they took out of there. And I went and I, you know, pilfered it. I sold it on the line. But anyway, to my bar people, not school children. It didn't say that in the movie. Not to school children.

You know, every fucking time you hear, Dowd's Drugs made its way to school children. Oh, it always does. Oh, really? Yeah, they're in the back of the bar snorting fucking grams in the fucking bathroom and it made it to school children. Yeah, okay.

Yeah, we're going to get to that, the eventual downfall in Harry. Well, he probably was a school child. He shouldn't have been selling anything. Yeah, he looked a little. That was Kenny's fucking. That was Kenny's connection? Yeah, I don't know.

Kenny's distributor. Oh, that's right. He was at a bar with them. Yeah, he was at a bar. That fucking guy. Oh, my God. So let's, yeah, let's start. So it turned, let's start.

But Walter and Chicky and Jeff get arrested. Yes. I put Walter in my house for over a year because his parents threw him out. His mother's wife threw him out. She changed the fucking locks and get out, you piece of shit. I put Walter in my house.

So my wife says, it's me or him. I says, where are you going, sweetheart? So she ended up moving in the basement with Kenny's fucking wife. Kenny had an apartment in his basement. My wife ended up moving in there. I was paying him $700, $800 a month basement with Kenny's fucking wife. Kenny had an apartment in his basement. My wife ended up moving in there. I was paying him $700, $800 a month fucking rent for my fucking wife. Your wife's living in Kenny's house with Kenny's wife in the basement.

Yeah, well, Kenny and- And you got Walter at your house. And Walter's at my house now. First of all, feeding that guy alone had to be a grand away. Oh, he was expensive, man. Fucking guy is a monster. He's doing all my blow. He's fucking eating my fucking-

He ate twice a week but he didn't walk coke so it was killing me one way or the other he was still putting me out of business is that actual footage they would they show actual footage in a movie of of them robbing was it the bodega bodega yeah they show him not you know can he go i mean uh walter goes uh if your neck needed breaking i'd fucking break it and then he he he goes on to explain how you guys would do Arby's, just like they trained us in the academy. You have guys in the front, guys in the back. They show actual footage of you.

Yeah, but that's not the particular one. That's not the one, no. But they stage it like it was what they did. So, yeah. Okay. So it's similar. That looked pretty damn good. It might have been one of the bodegas that we were in, though,

because several of those bodegas are on Rio from the feds and the state and the city's investigation units have pictures of those bodegas where they went in and out of them. Okay. So there is some footage. Okay. Yeah. Not that particular moment. No. I guess is what I'm saying.

Right. Because otherwise they would have been cooked right off the bat. Right there. I actually had the guy sent to fucking Dominican Republic, the bodega owner. Oh, there's a big story that's going to come out in my book. The book should be, the book's in the proposal status, but probably going to call it

The 7-5, The House That Coke Built. So we differentiate a little bit from the movie. 7-5, The House That Coke Built is going to be my book. And it's going to get into all these stories as best we can, because you still got to minimize some of it, because I mean, it's a 10-year career. My my life was fucking crazy i did a lot of crazy shit right but you know these guys got went out on bail i put them in my homes uh we used to do shakedowns

off duty with our vets and our fucking mustangs we'd fucking follow drug dealers around neighborhoods and shit just because we got crazy and we got fucking out of control you know thank god they come and get us i'm gonna plug this before i forget we got we're still gonna we got a lot to talk about but uh the mike dowd.com and uh at the mike dowd on twitter right and uh you get an instagram account correct yeah all the mike dowd the mike dowd because there's a couple different sites out there with michael dowd the michael dowd or the 75 mike dowd but the bottom line is the mike dowd is what's controlling most of my interest right now how are you let me ask you a question and i'm not being flippant how do you how were you sleeping when when you were doing all this i wasn't

were you up all the time i was i probably slept three hours a day at the time seriously let me ask you this were you one of those people even before you became a cop well like when you were younger in high school were you one of those people that fucking get by in three hours sleep you seem like even now you we all know a guy like you you're like a live wire yeah i can't imagine you doing fucking blowing being around you forget it you know but yeah i wouldn't yeah well i'm a lot of fun though you know there's no doubt about that i'm fun i'm humorous i'm i think i'm likable i'm an asshole too and i make fun of myself first so i think that's important in life to just have fun I make fun of myself first So I think that's important In life

To just have fun And make fun of yourself a lot And I'm a live wire But you know You got me But conscious wise You slept like When the three hours

You slept fine right Yeah When you're unconscious It was called I was unconscious You were drunk I was unconscious Well

Blasted Whatever I was Kenny's wife said that That you took him Right out of her bed She's full of shit okay Kenny drank more than me You guys folks You ever notice You notice when I bring. Kenny's wife said that, that you took him right out of her bed. First, he's full of shit, okay? Kenny drank more than me. You guys, folks,

you notice when I bring up Kenny, there's a fucking change. He drank more than me, and I saved her life, okay? Let's just put it that way. Several times. All right? Okay.

All right? See, we're getting to shit that you might not read from the movie, folks. That's why he's correcting me on a lot of this shit. This is fucking great. This is a lot of shit.

Let's talk about, okay, when's the beginning of the end? When's it start to go sour on you? The beginning of the end is this. I am now... Don't forget, there's a long period of time that goes by here. I was in Whitestone Pound. I went to the rehabs.

I went two years into rehab program. Now, what years was this? This was like 88, 89. Yeah, 88, 89. I think, yeah. In the 90, they gave me my gun and badge back I'm like you gotta be fucking

whoa listen I gave my gun and badge up and they gave it back to me you fucking broke the rule you were getting high on your own supply fuck no but did that help

seriously did that help fuck did that help fuck things up no huh I don't know no no

no no no I was just how does it fuck things up well you i didn't get fucking drunk and i didn't get caught how'd i get caught no it might have started the beginning of the end i know how you get caught i know well that's not even about that you know that's not even how i get caught i get caught because they're fucking dealing drugs on long island they don't know how to deal drugs because they're not real drug dealers these motherfuckers they don't know what they're doing That's how I get caught But wasn't

Weren't you part of the decision To fucking sell shit on Long Island? That was all Kenny? I had nothing to do with him Boy this fucking movie I'm going to fucking call these guys myself They had nothing to do with him He had his own operation

So let's We're getting way ahead of ourselves I know I do 88, 89 I go to 89, 90 Whatever I go to the fucking rehab cycle

Didn't work You can't remember what year. I went to the farm. Jesus Christ, I'm 54 now. I was in the fucking rehab program. I get caught banging some chick in the rehab program. Oh, you don't even know. They were going to close the whole fucking place down.

Anyway, I got the fucking, all these detectives coming up. You fucking asshole. They're cursing me out, whatever. Anyway, they had to pull a Mickey Rooney to get us back into the rehab. Because they're going to kick all the uh anyway they had to pull up they had to pull them pull a mickey rooney to get us back into the rehab because we're gonna kick all the cops out of rehab because of me anyway uh so i finished that off and i come back and i start put my life back together a little bit after rehab yeah after rehab i'm doing the 90 90 i'm doing everything smooth and in comes fucking kenny but you're still doing it comes kenny and says hey mike

you just made 90 days he goes goes, let's go celebrate. So I go over to the Yankee Clipper in fucking Babylon or someplace over there. This is how you celebrate your 90 days of sobriety? Yeah, I go to the Yankee Clipper and have a couple beers with Kenny, me, and my wife, and his wife. And it was off to the races again after that. But the fact is that. Your wife wasn't furious that you just came out of rehab and you fucking drank? No, because she was getting a little bored with me.

They live the life, too. They love a little of the excitement. Not a lot of it, but some of it. So she was like, oh, wow, Mike, that was really good. You were able to have one or two beers today. And you didn't take off and get in the Corvette. You didn't get in the Corvette and take off and go buy a kilo and start selling it. Well, that's the other thing.

I don't even know if we're up to that or the fucking red vet you're driving around. How the fuck do you think you're going to get away with that? That's what I'm talking about when you started getting high when i went to the rehab yeah when i went to 87 we call it the farm okay in the police department they call it the farm the rubber gun squad whatever i give my gun and my shield up so i can just go chill i wanted i needed a break i was driving to work with fucking palpitations my neck my head everything was tightening up and sweating i wasn't sleeping i was chasing the demon at both ends trying to go to work trying to hold it together and so i go do the rehab stint and everything's going okay life's getting better me and the wife are back together again and that's

when chicky and walter get fucking arrested for doing this robbery now i gotta bail them out what year is this this is like 89 89 yeah and so I put them in my house and whatever. And it turns into a, I'm back in the circle again with the whole environment. And, you know, it's a drug itself. Money is a drug itself, you know? I know, but the night you get out of rehab, you fucking started drinking again. Now you're back in the circle. Not the night.

That's what you said. No, 90 days. You were the Yankee Clipper. 90 days. You were clean for 90 days. Right. And then as soon as you get out celebrate yeah no that's a 90 and 90 no no i wasn't out i was still i was in the street i was only in rehab for 28 days oh all right i come out i did my 90 day stretch we celebrated

the yankee clipper all right so it wasn't like i came out that night and then i went back two more times to the rehab just because they were chasing me. Because Armstrong was coming after me a lot. The fucking ICO in the 75 precinct. Oh boy, he was a fucking nemesis. What's the ICO? The Integrity Control Officer. He was after me. Jesus Christ, they have more?

He was a pain in my ass. Well, they didn't like the vet showing up at the fucking parking lot in the lieutenant's spot. Listen, when you pull a brand new red Corvette convertible into the lieutenant's spot, and he's trying to fucking get your girlfriend, he knows it's over. Yeah. He knows he's got no fucking chance. You know?

Yeah. I just lost 1,500 large at the fucking casino. You're supposed to be making 600 a year. I got 600. A week. No, clearing 600

every two weeks. So, Jesus. Yeah. Really? That was a check that they show in the movie. And you say in front of the Marlin Commission,

you go, I forgot to pick up my checks. How unimportant the check was. Well, when you're getting eight grand or fucking four grand a week, you know, splitting it. And then it was, you know, getting ounces here and there. So I was making fucking four or five thousand a week, you know. So anyway, so you pull the vet into the fucking lieutenant spot. Things start to, you know, they get a little mad.

And I actually was saying, listen, catch me if you can, motherfuckers. I'm done. I really want this over with but you people have no fucking nerve or balls to get me and they didn't want to get me as it turned out

I started reading all these investigative wires and shit later on like they were praying for me to just go away I finally knew I just would have shut up and curled

into a corner you know but I you know it's a drug you know it's the money the drug the life you know it's just crazy you never stop it's hard to stop You know, it's the money, the drug, the life. You know, it's just crazy. You never stop.

It's hard to stop. You got to be pulled out of it. Yeah, you, in the movie, because you keep mentioning greed. Yeah, well, greed is, it's a. So how about the cops? They said, fuck that. We were all tempted by the money, but we didn't do it. What do you say to them?

How come we, how come we were fucking strong enough to not be tempted by it? What do you say to guys? Well, how about this? How about we ask those guys that want to fucking be mouthy tough guys. Why don't we ask them this question? What were they doing about it? About guys like me? Huh? It was okay with them.

Because let me tell you something. If they knew about it and they didn't drop a dime on me, oh well. What does that tell you? Now, I'm not saying they should be rats. But they would have been and that's why they didn't do it or and you said that

in front of the commission yeah either they didn't want to be labeled as rats or they didn't make the phone call to IAD or some did because obviously

I got 19 complaints or something made against me all unfounded who the fuck is investigating a guy who's got 19 complaints and they're all unfounded what the fuck you know if there's smoke there's got 19 complaints and they're all unfounded? What the fuck?

You know, if there's smoke, there's got to be a fire somewhere. Right, right. Follow me home, you know, if you see me in a club fucking doing bangers off the bar

or fucking, you know, pulling out my fucking dollar bill and rolling it into a fucking straw. Right. Something's got to be wrong.

I'm doing it off the dashboard of the car after a while. I couldn't give a fuck. I wanted them to catch me. I was done. I wanted to go home and stop playing. Really? doing it off the dashboard of the car after a while. I couldn't give a fuck. I wanted them to catch me. I was done. I wanted to go home. Stop playing. Really?

But it was just, I was tired. I was tired. I was too fucking wrapped up in the whole thing. And it was, I mean, then the cop gets fucking whacked and we're like, oh my God. You know, I feel like the blood was on my hands. Was this the venerable? The transit cop? Robert Venable.

Yeah. You happen to be, tell that story. You happen to be in the area i was well i was you know the story's horrific it's sad you know i don't want to use this guy's name in any kind of you know sensationalism but the fact is what happened was uh i think he was connected with the cello fucking uh crew not him personally no the guys the guys that did it were. The guys that did the shooting were connected with the cello. I think. That's what it said in the documentary. Did it say that?

Okay, see, and I don't know. Yeah. I did a weekend with this cello crew, and now they try to fucking. Was the cello a lot of company? Yes. Yes. I think they believe that's right. So the call comes over.

We got some perp in the back. He just did an armed robbery, and Kenny and I. You and Kenny And Kenny and I are transporting him back to the precinct station house. And we pull into the lot. As we're pulling in, I'm hearing Bradford and Pitkin. They're saying it wrong. Central's missing it. I heard it. I know what the guy said.

He said Bradford and Pitkin. So I'm putting it over to you. Central, it's Bradford and Pitkin, So I'm putting it over the air. Central, it's Bradford and Pitkin, whatever. I could be saying the street wrong right now. It could have been Ashford. I don't know. But the fact is, whatever it was, I heard it. I put it over the air, and I tell the guy, get out.

You tell the perp to get out. Get out. He's in the backyard of the station now, standing around by himself. The handcuffs on. I said, get the fuck out now. You tell the perp to get out. He gets out of the car. We just take off, Kenny and I. Mark won fuck out now you tell the perp to get out he gets out of the car we just take off

Kenny and I mark one first car's on the scene and here comes this uniformed transit sergeant with this big black guy fucking huge

carrying him huge I'm like okay what do you got he goes he's a cop I go oh fuck we pull up the car

right next to him put him in throw him in so we we throw him in the back seat. And bingo. We take off down Picking Avenue to Penn. Picking to Penn to fucking Linden.

Yeah, you see me. To Brookdale. I could do it in my sleep this trip. So I'm on the radio and driving. Despite what Kenny says in the documentary. Because Kenny says to me, holy fuck, he's got a hole in his head. What do we do? I said, well, just start pumping on his chest.

Put your hand over the hole. Do something. Don't just stand here and look. I got the fucking car, and we don't need the radio now. Pick into pen to fucking Linden. I'm going. Mark one. The guy's legs, he's so big, his legs are hanging out the car door.

We can't close the door. So there's some guy in the back with us, a cop. Not the uniformed sergeant from transit. Another, like, plain clothes guy. I don't even know who he was. I think he was a housing cop because he was in front of a housing project. And the housing cop jumped in with us. So he's fucking trying to close the door.

I'm driving down Pickett Avenue. The guy's pumping on his chest. The blood's shooting out of this fucking guy's head all over the backseat of the car. Anyway, it was a tragic moment. And we handled it as best we could. But it was a horrible feeling later on as we just thought things through. Like, this guy got whacked by some drug dealers

in the neighborhood. And we didn't know who they were specifically. No, but there is a connection. But there is this connection. And so is Wayne on you. So, yeah, it really bothered myself. It still does today, you know. But the fact is that, you know, you can't change certain things.

You know, if I should have made a left instead of a right, you know, I wouldn't have hit this car or I wouldn't have done that. But the fact is that everybody makes choices, and it's unfortunate this guy lost his life. You know, I don't think that we had a direct responsibility for that, but people will try to say so. Well, that's... The blood's on your hands. I was going to ask you about that, because drugs ruin so many lives.

That's the only thing. Yeah, you know, they ruin mine too, you know, so what? Well, I know, but you made a conscious decision to fucking... Well, don't all people? Yeah, but not everybody's conscious decision ends up with people dying. You know, I mean, it ruins... What's the guy's name ends up with people dying. You know what I mean? What's the guy's name? Hall.

Joe Hall. Joe Hall. Yeah. Who said about that specific incident. Yeah. He didn't like, he's like, Mike, he's trying to take credit for, you know, rushing that guy. He just happened to be in the fucking area. Yeah, fuck him too.

All right. Look, Joe Hall, I admire Joe Hall and respect Joe Hall, but that was not right for him to say that because he doesn't know how I felt, and he doesn't know what I did. And I did a lot more than I'm even saying to that situation. And Kenny could—the last guy I want backing me up right now is Kenny, but he can back me up on that. Joe Hall, I respect and admire, but he's probably minimizing

and downplaying anything that I—like I could do something good. Hey, fuck, I was a cop for ten and a half years. What do you think? I did nothing good? I saved people's lives. I brought babies back to life that were unconscious. I brought 68-year-old women dead on the ground. I pumped their chests back to life.

In fucking catering halls in the Riviera. I was shaking down the back room of the Riviera, and some guy passed out and had a heart attack on the dance floor in the Riviera. Okay, but again. I mean, so I could go down The back room of the Riviera And some guy passed out And had a heart attack On the dance floor In the Riviera You were Okay but again I mean so I could go down a list

Wait a minute I can go down a list Wait a minute now If I'm playing Joe Hall here Yeah You saved the guy in a dance floor Because you were there Shaking down a fucking

Well I was getting a free meal I was getting a free meal From the wedding food What the fuck I didn't want to pay I can't wait to see That was in Coney Island when they sent me

to Coney Island. That's where the movie is going to start. I'm telling you, this is where the movie is going to start. At Coney Island? It's going to start

in Coney Island because after Coney Island is where all this other shit starts, the heavy shit. But you don't even notice. People don't even notice. They don't even mention Coney Island in the movie.

In the book, in the book, you'll hear this. A cop threatens to kill me at my own house from Coney Island when I was working in Coney Island. I'm not going to get into the details because it's labyrinthian, whatever you want to call it. It's got tentacles everywhere. But there's a cop off duty that threatens me in Coney Island and then calls my house about two weeks later and starts threatening me at 2.30 in the morning

when I walk in the door and my phone's ringing. He doesn't say a name, doesn't say anything. And then finally I get him to talk. I fucking convince him to talk. And he goes, I could shoot you right now. Boom, I hit the fucking ground in my house and start chewing on the rug. And this is me when I got a fucking like seven-month-old baby

in the room and my wife. And I'm like, this is 1986. So 86 already already i'm fucking getting threatened to be killed by a cop and this guy ends up going to fucking jail too so five years into your career you're already yeah okay so you come out of rehab you go to the yankee clipper fucking celebrate that you said this is the beginning of where it started to unravel. Let's get to that part. Well, because Kenny and I no longer work together. That's what happens.

So I no longer have control of this fucker. How did that, what was the event that split you up working with? Well, because I went to the rehab. You went to rehab

and he had another partner. So now he stays in the 75 and I go for the duck. I duck out. Now I'm in rehab for two years and I go, I'm on now he stays in the 7-5, and I go for the duck. I duck out. Now I'm in rehab for two years, and I'm on my way back to the 7-5. Kenny just retires. He gets his three-quarters disability. Oh, Jesus.

Because I'm telling him, Kenny, you know it's over. He goes, yeah. So he sets himself up for this three-quarters disability that he broke his wrist. Anyway, I'm not going to get into that. Let him answer. I'm going to have to have him answer rebuttal. What do you want? The truth?

Do you want to? You want the truth? I can tell you the truth, but he's not going to. Why would he lose his pension? Anyway, so he gets his pension. God bless him. He's gone. Now I'm going back to the 75 after I finished my rehab stint, which I don't want.

I don't want to go anywhere. I want to stay rehabbed with no guns. I don't want my guns back because I'm fucking, I'm not trustworthy. I know I shouldn't have my guns back. So you don't, I'm trying not to. That's ironic. You know you're not trustworthy, but the cops want to give you your guns back. But they're trying to give me my guns back.

So I said, listen, all right, whatever. Whatever you're going to do, you're going to do. I'll just do the best I can. I'll try to do straight eights. We call them straight eights. Just to stay out of trouble. Just to do the right thing. I'll just do the best I can. I'll try to do straight eights. We call them straight eights. Just to stay out of trouble. Just to do the right thing. I end up in the 9-4 precinct.

Where's that? It's in Greenpoint. And I end up in sort of like God's country in a way. Because it's like you're fucking getting paid cop salary to hang out with people who hardly speak English. Most of them are Polish. And there's a couple of small Italian section. A small Hispanic, small black section. Probably not anymore.

No, today it's all fucking heaven. There's a couple small Italian section a small spanx more small black not anymore, but yeah, no today It's all fucking heaven and but but I mean it's like beautiful to be a cop from the ghetto and go here You're like oh my god. You get food that you can actually eat and taste and I found ways to make money there. I'm in the car business, so I was like good I don't have to touch the drugs, but the thing is the drug always calls you the drug always calls you get people Hey, listen, can you get me a half an hour can you get me a kilo can you get me a half a kilo whatever it is you know and then fucking fatal call was from kenny one day kenny was retired with a pension and he calls me up and says mike can you get me something what happened is right around easter time the colombians are

very religious okay you can't one thing you can't say is they're very religious so around when they're not selling shooting and fucking killing people. Well, around Easter, and you'll know this if you look through history, around Easter, the price of cocaine goes up 20% to 40%. This is fascinating. Yeah, because they cut back their deliveries and their activities around the holiday. They shut down. And so the price goes up.

And now you have people clamoring like they're holding their supplies so supplying demand so the price keeps going up up up do you see the irony in this because

Easter it's Easter Jesus rises yeah there's a lot of shit going on two things rise around Easter

fucking Jesus and the price of fucking coke yeah so what the fuck so I get a phone call from Kenny

because he can't get any so I tell him the price is fucking went from 22 to 42 for a little small from Kenny because he can't get any. So I tell him the price is fucking went from 22 to 42 for a little small piece he wanted. He goes, just get it for me. I don't give a fuck.

All right. So I go to his house to pick up the money and bingo, they're all over the fucking place. I go, Kenny, I turn around.

I go back to his house, knock on the door because back then he didn't have cell phones. Right. He goes, what's up? I go,

they're all over the fucking place here. He goes, what are you talking about? I says, there's cars everywhere I go, they're all over the fucking place here. He goes, what are you talking about? I says, there's cars everywhere. They're fucking undercover. They're watching you. They're watching your house. Oh, they've been following you for years, he says.

Maybe they have been. I go, I have to fucking work. I make my moves. I pick up his piece. I come back that night. The fucking headlights are on me. They didn't stop me. I went to Kenny's house.

Came out. Pop up. Left. I called him the next day. I said, left. I called the next day, Kenny, I was in your house last night. Three fucking cars like sort of just flashed me their brights

and stood right at me and I fucking left. He goes, I don't know what to tell you, Mike. You know, I haven't seen anything. What the fuck? He hasn't seen anything,

this guy. A cop. He hasn't seen anything. He hasn't seen a goddamn thing. So anyway, I'm done now. They got me. They see me. They,'t seen a goddamn thing. So anyway, I'm done now. They got me. They see me.

I don't know this. They already have him. They already have him wrapped. He doesn't know it. Well, that's what I was going to say. He wasn't setting me up, is what I'm saying. Hadn't they been a lot of, there was a lot of surveillance going on for years that you didn't know about. All the shit you were doing.

No, I knew I was being surveilled all the time. You did? I knew I was being surveilled all the time You did I knew I was being surveilled Alright I would catch them Tromboli I kept fucking chasing him Oh yeah he mentioned that I used to chase him

They cut out some of the shit I was chasing him In the neighborhoods In your vet In my vet Yeah He said in the movie That you'd run like

A string of red lights On the way home From the precinct In your vet Yeah yeah I would catch him all the time But anyway I'd take a string of red lights on the way home from the precinct in your vet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would catch him all the time.

But anyway, so I'd take a piss on the side of the lawn. Remember the exit 52 on the LIE? They have the parking ride or whatever it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They make all the phone calls. Yeah.

They get BJ's over there. Everybody stops. Yeah. I know exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I know exactly. The truckers are over there.

Everyone's getting their pipe cleaned. Yeah. Anyway, so I go over there and take a piss. Tromboli pulls in behind me. I'm like, who does this guy think? I don't fucking see him. I get in the car. I take off. He gets in Tromboli pulls in behind me I'm like what does this guy think I don't fucking see him I get in the car I take off

he gets in the car fucking starts following me anyway so I still make my rounds what's he gonna do he's there to say excuse me Mike

next time you make a drop can you tell me what you get and how much you're getting for it you know I mean just wasting his fucking time whatever so anyway but Kenny was already

wrapped up they had him in two direct sets and he didn't know it though he didn't know it but they. He didn't know it, but they let the fucking chain keep going to see what would come, and then he calls me.

And they had his phone already under wraps and all that other shit. So anyway, once they get you on the phone, he only stopped for four minutes. Four minutes in and out of someone's house is a drug deal. That's just the way it is. That's just how they, you know.

My expertise as a narcotics detective, usually someone stops way it is. It's just how they, you know, my expertise as a narcotics detective, usually someone stops at someone's house for less than five minutes and yes, your honor, and that's what I say and that's what happened there.

So hence, and then we pulled him over and there was cocaine in the car. So done. So the fact is that, I mean, that's not what happened to me, but that's what began,

begun to happen. And then within, probably within, I went to the Cayman Islands on vacation. I came back from the cayman islands and about a week or two later uh i said kenny this is too much we got to put a nice package deal together where we we don't touch this anymore so i hooked up with one of my local guys that i had a major operation with he was selling like 35 40 kilos a week and i said i'm gonna give you the money you're gonna put us in for one kilo a day he said no problem mikey whatever you want of course so he put us in for a kilo a day so we

had a nice operation set up we were making about if I say the numbers I could be wrong but I say we were making about uh 15,000 a week now between the two each of us so it's about 30,000 a week we started to make fucking nice money right we only got it twice but because they were they're already deep in us but i was trying to pull away from the activity and uh so no hands-on type of thing just paid us drug dealer so every time he bought five kilos we got one so he saw 37 35 kilos a week you know we got we got seven sales for that week out of his kilo stuff i mean i turned into a fucking business i mean i was done with the police money. It wasn't doing anything for me and I was all in at that point

and I was looking for any way to make money because the fact is this, I tried to go good and people don't know this. I really, really honestly made that attempt.

A cop tried to fucking have me killed at my house. That's one. One of the instances when I tried to go good. The second time I tried to go good, no one would work with me

in fucking, in the 94th precinct. So I ended up, you know, being a half a good, half a bad, bad you know so I ended up making money in the car business and still had my hand in the drug business so when Kenny called up bingo I handed him his fucking piece and now I'm in the loop over there and then I go down but the fact is that because I had no control over Kenny at that point in his life he's already retired three quarters disability you know the worst thing ever did was meet me the worst thing ever did was I met. The worst thing he ever did was I met him.

The best thing ever happened to Kenny was he met me. He got all his fucking free drug money. He learned how to sell drugs almost. Not quite. He made some money doing that. He got a three-quarters disability pension. He buys a house cash out in Florida. So he's got a pension the rest of his life. His wife's father left him a half a million dollars in cash.

He did quite well, this guy. And the worst thing he ever did was meet me. He got a $3 million value pension, at least. And you were selling in Long Island, right? Selling this shit out live? Well, I had a small clientele. I had a small niche, a liquor store owner, one lawyer, a couple of fucking bartenders and shit. Real men, though.

Not like a Harry guy who was young and immature. me, like, you know, like real men though, not like a Harry guy who was young and immature. Harry was 20, 21 years old. You know, my guys was established drug business people. They were like professionals.

Right. Unlike Kenny and his crew. Well, 54 people were arrested with us. 54 people were arrested. People don't know this. Facts. Civilians.

54 people were arrested. Six of us were police officers. I knew two people people my partner and kenny my current partner and kenny that was it of course i didn't know kenny's wife so i should have said that one of the things they asked me not to bring up all right so uh okay so when when does it go down you um i'm at work in the 94th Precinct and they haven't called my sector in two days. I'm like, this has been awfully quiet.

So what happened was they knew it was coming. So I picked up a piece for Kenny the last day. Who knew it was coming? The NYPD. They knew it was coming. So we'd go on patrol as a regular day of patrol, but they would never call our sector

because they didn't want us doing anything police wise and they were following every move we made all day long and I kept following seeing them but I wouldn't tell my partner

I didn't want to scare them because I figured out they're following me again you know what am I doing today all I'm doing is buying a brick of fucking coke I'm not like I'm doing

anything serious you know what was unless you're on the other end of the sale you don't know what the fuck I'm doing. I'm going to a store, coming out with a bag. You think it's

chips? It's a fucking... Whatever. So, and then I dropped it off to Kenny. Kenny comes to meet me at work. I throw it in his car. He drives back to Long Island. Bingo. The house gets busted when he walks in with the drop, and the sandwich shop is

closed. They call me into the 94th precinct come on we want to talk to you i go inside turn around there's badges everywhere flying and it got ugly after that was that when you describe that in the detail of my book well in the movie what's the scene um you're putting pants on on your locker and you got coke in your pants yes right which had me fucking belly oh my god it was horrible what the fuck am I going to do with this? God. I tried like hell to get rid of it, but they kept blocking my path. Every time I, okay, I'm going to get rid of it in that pail.

I'm going to just walk past the pail and throw it in the pail. They blocked the pail. Then I had flanks of cops walk me into Left Frack City. Flanks. I'm talking a hundred of them. I get out of the patrol car. I'm like, the mayor's here? What the fuck's going on? I'm here to take a piss test they said I went this looks like it's a little

more serious than a piss test yeah oh my god and I went to open the windows I smoked I'm smoking in the car so I says you guys want to open the window because there's no fucking handles in the back I'm like I'm in the back of a car with no handles something's not right here how about you guys open the window because I'm gonna smoke I smoked a cigarette chain smoked fucking cigarettes so they would open the windows i was gonna take the shit and throw it out the window while i was driving i'm gonna they wouldn't do it they wouldn't open the window for themselves they wouldn't open it for themselves they're like go ahead coughing and choking i'm fucking trying okay when i get out of the car i'm gonna get rid of it as soon as i step out of the car well they opened the door for me because i couldn't open it myself

so i'm standing right next to me I'm like fuck I can't dump it yet But I'll get a chance Between here and the Entrance way to Left Rag City And there was a flanks of cops there All gold shields

Like everybody had a gold shield Like That's the upper breath Whoever they were Then you got Then the elevator opens up And there's a bunch of scrambled eggs People will know what I'm talking

These fucking more scrambled eggs What's that? On their On their Oh On their cap On their hats On their caps These fucking more scrambled eggs on their cap. On their hats, yeah. On their caps. There's these scrambled eggs all over the place.

I'm like, holy fuck. This is pretty serious for a drug test, you know? I get in the elevator. I go upstairs, and there's this lieutenant waiting. His whole fucking career, he's waiting to get me. What's his name? It's a German fucking guy. Hoff something.

I don't remember. Hoffenschmacher. I don't know. But he was a... Colonel guy, Hoff something, I don't remember. Hoffenschmachfuck, I don't know. But he was a scumbag. Everybody hated him because he thrived on taking cops down. He thrived on it. You guys have a problem, they have a problem. I mean, the police department today, you can't have a fucking drug.

You can have an alcohol problem, they'll take care of you, but if you have like an oxycodone, or a fucking Coke, or a fucking whatever, Montega, heroin, whatever the fuck they have, if you have any kind of problem like that, at all,

you're fired, you're terminated, and you know, it's the reality of life, people do have problems, so what happens is this, you go on the ground then, if you have a problem,

and you're a police officer, you have to go, you're forced on the ground right what your problem you can't say listen i need some help so now you go on the ground then what happens you commit more crimes and more atrocities because you just have to because you feel there's no way out like a trap a rat trapped in a cage he's gonna you know fight and chew his way out so that's that's you know i actually i was i'm working with internal affairs now for the police department did you know that? I did not. Yeah.

I did not. I don't think that was in a movie. No, not right now as we speak. I did, it's just current. Thursday, Friday this past week, I was in with them and helping them with some things. And we're putting together an extensive, informative video. And I think if things go smoothly, I may be speaking before some recruits and stuff like that

so you know in a way I'm really really thankful in an odd way that my life is turning around now and thanks to this movie

I guess in some respects you know listen this movie shows an ugly side of the police department it shows an ugly side of what human beings can become

but I think at this point in my life I've earned the right to speak candidly and honestly about everything I've done. I did my time. I served my price. The price has never ended, by the way.

I continually pay for it. So for all you haters out there, I'm still paying for it. I can't even get a fucking steady job still. Okay? So life is not easy. So you'll be happy to know that if you're a fucking hater.

So it is what it is. And I gave up the family of police, which is really a very lonely feeling because you never really stop being a cop even though there's going to be people who say right now he never was a cop he was a piece of shit well fuck you too i was a cop i still have a cop in my heart but you know what i'm a realist today i don't see everything everything's not black and blue today or blue and white there's there is a gray and this is in the middle when it comes to police work some guys fucking don't belong in the police force well you said right in the documentary at one point you you said i look at

myself as a gangster and a cop yeah it's it's ironic you know uh you know maybe i should put a t-shirt out cop or gangster seven five figure it out you know because they're beating cops up out there too maybe cops should be a little gangster in some points i mean some of the shit that's going on today is ridiculous. How about at the end, though? You're out on bail, right? Yeah, well, that's all bullshit. That's all set up by the feds, the whole thing.

The whole fucking kidnapping? The whole thing. There's no fucking kidnapping. That's Kenny. Kenny's the kidnapper, not me. That's all bullshit. Is that right? That's the facts.

In the movie, yeah. In the movie, they have you come up with this plan to... I never had a plan to kidnap anybody. But that's what it says in the movie. I'm just saying. It says that, but that's not the facts. The facts are this. You're going to kidnap some Colombian...

The facts are that you're supposed to go to this broad's house and take her money and her drugs and leave her. Goodbye. But Kenny, because he's working for the feds and wearing a wire, continues to massage the case, to massage it, to make it bigger and make it better in his direction so that he's saving the fucking day listen i've never put anybody's hair out of place in my life i mean you know one thing i was an excitable guy you know was i a tough guy a little bit if i had to be but you know so you

weren't going to get 700 grand of cash and 10 kilos yeah it was yeah from a woman but you're saying it involved no kidnapping none of that that. All it involved was bringing flowers to the lady's house and having her open the door. But was that probably true the same day there was a murder in the neighborhood? Yeah, of course. Of course, I fucking called Kenny like a jerk. And by the way, I knew Kenny was wearing a wire at times. But I wanted to believe. This is how desperate people get when they get in a bad situation.

I know he's wearing a wire. I'm asking him, are you wearing a wire today? No. And back then it wasn't hard to find out. It was like carrying on a goddamn stereo. Right. It was huge. I didn't have the, I don't want to say the nerve because I certainly had nerve, but it

was like, I was like, I knew he was cheating on me, but I didn't want to believe it. You know? And that's just the way it was. I don't want to believe you're doing this to me, Kenny. You're not really doing me the way I think you're doing me, are you? Kenny is known for his hair. Never out of place, perfectly coiffed. He's got the window open in the fucking car.

I got the air conditioner blowing 90 miles an hour, so I look at him, Kenny, why you got the window open? I know something's not right, because I just chased the feds. I just chased the feds. They're fucking sitting around the block from my house. I said, Kenny, this car doesn't belong here. this is on your way to avon avenue whatever the fuck this is a couple days prior to prior to that eventually you know on the way to avon avenue i turned tell

tell put put the scanner scanner on he goes oh we're not going if to do a burglary there's a burglary stakeout that comes over the year there's a burglary stakeout on avon today i look at him they're fucking all over the place he goes yeah but we're not going there for burglaries Mike We're going there to do an execution and a kidnapping I said oh really We are I said first of all He goes

Wow I go what are you talking about I said we're not going there for that We'll go One two We're not We're not supposed He's going

Well we gotta go up to that door I go what We're never even supposed to go The Columbians are supposed to go to the door It's their fucking Their coke And the cash We're just supposed supposed to go. The Columbians are supposed to go to the door. It's their fucking, their coke and the cash. We're just supposed to split the booty for setting it up, you know? He goes, well, I'm not taking this drive without going up to that front door.

I says, well, you can go to the front door if you want, motherfucker. I ain't. So we turn the block. I see like 75 fucking cars and, you know, people. I know they're cops. I'm like, I jump back on the Grand Central Parkway And head straight home

And I They cut half the shit out Believe me Those tapes are cut out By the feds Because I'm telling him You fucking piece of shit I know you set me up

I was gonna say You ask him on the phone In the movie You say How did they know Yeah And he had an answer for that Yeah he had a fucking

Yeah yeah That wasn't on the phone That wasn't a tape That was a wire He was wearing That was a wire The phone Yeah, yeah, yeah. That wasn't on the phone. That wasn't a tape. That was a wire he was wearing. That was a wire. The phone was different. Oh, that's right. The phone was different.

The phone was different. Then I call his fucking house. Yeah, insane. After his wife, his wife, he goes to me, I go to his house, I go, I want to calm down now.

We just fucking escaped this major shit. Right. I get back to his house. I say, listen, let me, I just want, he goes, all right, I'll see you later.

He gets out of the fucking car. I mean, you'll see me later. Hold on. Let's talk about this. Let's discuss this because I want, I'm I'll see you later. He gets out of the fucking car. I mean, will you see me later? Hold on. Let's talk about this. Let's discuss this. Because I'm not comfortable, you know? So I get out of the car and talk. You know what I mean?

Let's go upstairs, go in the house and talk. He goes, well, hold on. Let me check and see if my wife is dressed. Like, dressed? I've seen you. I've had your wife naked in bed with me. What the fuck? I got to see.

You got to see if she's dressed. Oh, for Christ's sake. Who gives a shit if she's dressed? It's fucking odd, you know? So finally, yeah, come on in. So she comes out of the shower all wet, and she's hugging me. And what happened, Mike? I go, oh, jeez, Dory, we pulled the fast one off.

Thank God we didn't get pinched. She's like, oh, my God. Look around. There's no fucking furniture in the house. Yeah, he was already on his way off. I go, where the fuck is your furniture? He goes, oh, well, you know. It shows better with no furniture.

Yeah, it shows better. He's trying to sell his house that was a week yeah but that's how desperate you are right you'll believe anything you're looking to believe anything at this point yeah all right yeah i go home my wife says yeah last night dory told me if i never see you again remember i love you i said she told you this last night i go she goes yeah i go holy fuck yeah i get on the phone i go i said i said dory where's kenny she says oh he's sleeping i sleep and get him the fuck up right now she goes he's at his lawyer's office i go really bingo i get in the fucking car i book right to his lawyers

nyberg fucking amy fisher one of those lawyers i was gonna say nyberg it sounds familiar i've seen his ass Yeah yeah yeah He was Amy Fisher's lawyer Yeah I don't know One of those fuckers Anyway

He's over there Like Jacoby and Myers Yeah he's got the fucking Best lawyer in the country Representing this prick Paul Nyberg Yeah cause he's got fucking money And his wife's got plenty of money

I'm fucking Pulling strings together Well not that I didn't have money But I had a lot of homes And real estate, you know. But, and plus the fucking, they shook my house down.

They took all my lay around cash. Anyway, so this is about we're out on bail. You know, the state let me go on bail and now the feds

and I'm trying to leave. What is this? I'm trying to leave the country. I'm trying to go to Nicaragua to become a shrimp, a shrimp boat captain. The owner of the fucking Astoria Manor.

Okay, they mentioned that. The owner of the Astoria Manor asks me. You were going there to be a shrimp? Shrimp boat captain. Okay, in the movie it says that's where you were taken off after you were going to do the kidnapping. You were going to take your money and run to Nicaragua. But you wanted to be a shrimp. I wanted to be a shrimp boat captain down there.

What the fuck? What the fuck do I know? All I know is I got to go. Fuck you, Forrest Gump? Yeah. All I know is I gotta go Fuck you Forrest Gump Yeah All I know is I don't wanna go to state prison For 25 to life

Of course The fuck I'm ready to go anywhere So it turns into A fucking hell of a beans And oh man I'm getting exhausted Just recanting some of this shit

But yeah So that's Okay so that's the final nail So the nail in the coffin Is Kenny's got the fucking wire on And I just And he's in the lawyer's office I catch him in the lawyer's office the nail in the coffin is Kenny's got the fucking wire on and I just and he's in the lawyer's office. I catch him in the lawyer's office.

I go, what the fuck you doing here, bro? He goes, well, you know, I'm a little nervous about what we did today, Mike. I go, really? What did we do? We didn't do anything. We went for a car ride. So the lawyer goes, whoa, you did go there to kidnap somebody. I go, no, we didn't. What are you telling this guy, Kenny?

Well, Mike, we went there, you know, to take this shit. Now he's telling the truth. We went there to take this shit. I go, no, he didn't. What are you telling this guy, Kenny? Well, Mike, we went there, you know, to take this shit. Now he's telling the truth. We went there to take this shit. I said, Kenny, the only one who knows that is you and me. No one fucking needs to know that. I said, number one. Number two, we weren't going. It was a dry run.

This was a dry run. It wasn't even the fucking run. This was a dry run. We didn't even fucking surveil the house properly yet to do anything. This is a dry run. And he's got us going to the door. I go i go oh i knew something was wrong when he said that earlier on in the car ride going to the door we're not even supposed to be going to the door this is a dry run oh i'm not taking this ride without going up to that front door and getting arrested you

know he's fucking how stupid are you jerk off i'm desperate but I'm not stupid. That was stupid. So anyway, we pull back, and then they end up fucking flying into my cul-de-sac. My cul-de-sac. Yeah. Yeah, my fucking nine-bedroom house. You're whipping in. Oh, it was fucking scary. I said, oh, God, I'm looking around.

How do I get out of this fucking place now? Unbelievable. It's like I'm starting to sweat and shake. But you were kind of relieved, no? When you're in the back car and it's over, you're like, oh, God. Thank God it's over. Again. I was relieved the first time when they pinched me.

I'm like, great. But, you know, what happened is reality strikes and you say, I got to live a life now. Either that or I got to go to prison. So, you know, that's when you start getting back into that, you know, deprecation. Your mind starts, now you're not thinking clearly. Now you're like, you're the rat in the cage. You know, I always found ways out of trouble, I mind, you're not thinking clearly now, you're like the rat in the cage. I always found ways out of trouble, I guess,

my whole fucking life. And I was able to either outsmart, out whatever the terms were that you could use, craftiness, I was always in a little bit of trouble, but never too much. And I was in a little bit more trouble than I wanted to be in.

And he doesn't do any time. doesn't do doesn't do a day day yeah you go in front of the Marlin Commission correct did I mean X I don't know how it works right you agreeing to go into that Commission and and did that help reduce your son well here's the story they came to me twice and I told him no they put this Commission together because of all the close invest yes because of you because I essentially because of me twice and I told them no. They put this commission together because of all this? Of course, of us, yes. Because of you, guys. Essentially because of me and the tone throughout the city. Okay.

And they know what's going on, okay? I didn't just break the fucking egg, you know what I mean? Right. I was the first guy, all right? But the fact is that I'm going to be the boy. I'm going to be the one, the white Irish guy from Long Island that could put all the fucking troubles on from the police department when the reality is this wasn't the face of corruption. It was just part of corruption.

So anyway, they put that on me. So now they want me to cooperate with them. I tell them, listen, you're going to have massive suicides and fucking the police department is going to fucking take a major hit over this commission. So what are you going to do for the cops? They said, we don't give a fuck how many cops commit suicide. If they're bad, we don't care. I said, what about their wives and kids and their families?

And they said, let them worry about themselves. This is the fucking commission telling me. I do not mince my words. I'm straightforward. I said, okay, I really don't want to deal with your people.

Goodbye. So anyway, this jerk off, Mac Alleri, comes out and starts writing newspaper articles about how many people I whacked. Okay, zero, but he's got me down for nine in the newspaper.

You're kidding me. No. So the lawyer fucking, I'm on. They can't, there's no way of verifying that? They don't, I can tell you what they wrote in the article. So anyway, the lawyer, I'm on the phone with the lawyer. He goes, listen, Mike, the only one that's going to help you now is this commission. He says, they've asked me again after this article came out if you would fucking come cooperate with them if you cooperate with them

you don't have to give anybody up you just have to tell them what you did and how you did it so that you can give them uh now who's telling you this your lawyer my lawyer yeah you can give them a game plan on how they can prevent guys like you from getting away with what you did i said all right he said i said so the fact is this i'm not going testify against anybody. I'm not going to agree to testify against anybody. But I'll tell you how I did it and how I got away with it. Part of the implication is you have to tell them everything you did along the way. So you clear the slate. So it's almost like a proffer today.

But you have to tell them what you did, how you did it. Otherwise, the feds fucking come back and get you with anything they want and the feds are motherfucker they'll come after you i mean martha stewart fucking couldn't beat them okay so let me tell you something if the feds come and get you it's already over just people just don't know it yeah it's done you're done when they come in the knock on the door it's over so it's just a matter of cutting your losses so now i'm in the fucking hole they offered me 30 to life the first trip the second trip was 24 to 30 i went to my lawyer did i fucking kill somebody i gotta i gotta sign a plea agreement for 24 to 30 years and my lawyer goes don't ever look at the bottom number he says because you're

not getting it no one or what the agreement is they don't call it a plea deal in the federal government they call a plea agreement there's no deals okay so you don't agree to put yourself away i'm in the fucking uh thing my wife's yelling don't take the plea mike because she cared at them don't take the plea i look around at her and she has no idea what i turned down already so i got him down to 12 and a half to 15 and a half years and and the marlin commission said they would come into the fucking courtroom if i was honest with them and forthright and helpful that they would express to the judge the detail to which I was. I mean, you know, so I did my thing. And instead of getting, because the judge was going to give me the 15 and a half plus,

she said. And she said, it's clearly at my sentencing, she said this. And then she said, but the fact is that you were very helpful to the Marlin Commission and you helped them, helped straighten out some of the police nonsense that's going on out there so i'm going to give you a sentence right in the middle of your guidelines yeah because the federal company have guidelines you know 12 and a half to 15 she gave me 14 years i served 12 years five months and like and you never 23 days and you never implicated anybody else i never implicated any of the cops no it is what it is you know i'm not a fucking hero for that it just

is what it is and and and i was a fucking hero for that it is what it is I was taught in my life to take your own weight I don't know my dad taught me that if you do something wrong take your own weight for it so I tried to

you know listen I don't hold anything against Kenny for what he did by the way in the end for what he did no just what he did after

when he started to set me up and lay the fucking groundwork for the feds that pissed me off because he didn't have to do that there's no reason for that. You want to turn on me? Go ahead.

At this point, there was 11. Listen, there's 13 or 14, maybe 20 fucking cooperating witnesses against me. People just making the fucking they were calling the government up saying they were in jail. Oh, I know that guy. They didn't fucking know me. They worked in East. They were drug dealers in East New York. Yeah, I did shit with him.

They were all jumping on the bandwagon. They could just make shit up. The government's like, you willing to say this? Yeah. You willing to say that? Yeah. Yeah, I did shit with him. They were all jumping on the bandwagon. They could just make shit up. The government's like, you willing to say this? Yeah. You willing to say that? Yeah, he took money from you? Yeah. They were fucking taking agreements from anybody.

Anybody with a fucking drug dealer conviction. And a prison life for cops is usually horrendous. But I noticed you mentioned that they kept away from you. You just walked the yard alone, you said a lot. Mostly, yeah. Mostly. I had a few guys that would come up to me and spend time with time with me but they would always be ostracized themselves so they were taking a big risk you know when you're a cop in prison you're nobody wants you yeah you're seen

with you right exactly yes so you know but there were one some guys that just didn't give a shit sort of like me you know they didn't want to be told what to do so you know like i'm walking with the guy go fuck yourselves you know you know people had to have the nerve to step up to them then and listen prison life is a little different than people talk about you know it's I'm walking with the guy, go fuck yourselves, you know, people had to have the nerve to step up to them then and listen, prison life is a little different than people talk about, you know, it's a life,

people try to live a life and there's always conflict like there is in life but in prison, you don't go to bed with conflict hanging. I mean, someone put me in,

I almost got stabbed up my last four months after doing like 11 and a half, 12 years, I almost got stabbed my last fucking month in prison. It's a long story, it'll be, I don't stabbed my last fucking month in prison. It's a long story. It'll be.

I don't know if it'll be in the book. But the fact is, it was not an easy ride. Every day I was mentally tortured because I had to know that there could be a guy at any minute trying to make a name for himself and using me as the fucking scapegoat. Right. Do you still talk to Kenny? I have. I mean, I've spoken to Kenny at events that we've gone to, and we're friendly. You know, we have disagreements on certain things.

Are you still friendly? I don't hate Kenny. I'm not happy with certain things, but I'm an adult today, so I can speak to somebody. The wives still talk? I don't have to, I think they do, but you'd have to, you know, I think they do like Facebook shit and stuff like that once in a while. How about, but this, to me, this typifies you, your personality and what I've liked. I mean, I guess you're about to go into your cell or whatever. Joey Hall's there, the guy that you hate.

Listen, I don't hate Joey Hall. That's wrong. I think you said you did. Well, I don't hate Joey Hall. That's wrong. I think you said you did. I hate what he said. That's not right. He tried to minimize my involvement in the Venable situation and cast it off as though I was lucky to be there.

The fact is that I put myself in harm's way, which I'm not asking for a medal for the fucking thing. And I actively pursued trying to save that guy's life. Joe Hall and I, I respect it. I admired Joe Hall more than I admired any, him and Mike Redmond. And he knows who I'm talking guy's life Joe Hall and I I respected I admired Joe Hall more than I admired any him and Mike Redmond and he knows who I'm talking about

if Joe Hall ever hears this I love Joe Hall I respected Joe Hall Joe Hall is a fucking hero cop he's a really good one so he says he's like I didn't like what he said about me

that's all you said I'm doing 14 to 16 I'm not a scumbag and he said I'd give you You know I would have given you

A lot more I would have given you Whatever And you go At least the Rangers Won the cup The life The year wasn't a total waste

At least the Rangers Won the Stanley Cup You know And then you hear And then he says He hears your Fucking That was a little dramatic

Wasn't it Come on What is he sitting there Waiting for it to slam I was going to say What's he doing He's writing a book When he did that

But you really said that about the Rangers? Absolutely. Jonah Hall and I, listen. You're just about to do a stretch at 12 years. Right. Well, listen, listen. This is what I'm talking about. My whole life I lived fucking Rangers.

I'm a regular guy just because I shook down drug dealers. No, I know. But that's not going to be on most people's mind is it going to their fucking cell or whatever. Well, it must have just happened then. It was 94. Yeah, 94. 94 was the summer of 94.

Yeah, Messier. Messier, the whole fucking great thing come on i'm a hockey player look my teeth are all banged up yeah joe hall uh joe hall and i used to go to hockey games together okay and is that right smackdown together no right and i used to bring fucking booze up to the squad room for them okay so joe and i had fucking, a little bit more of a relationship than it sounds like. Have I seen his, his face looked familiar. I don't know if I've seen him in other shit, maybe in the papers or something.

He looked very familiar. Well, Joe Hall's been around quite a while. He's actually an excellent detective, by the way. He's fucking, he is, he is the man. There's no question about it. I learned a lot from him. Did you? Yeah, I did, absolutely.

You mean good stuff or bad stuff? No, real, no good stuff. No, real good stuff. Yeah, yeah. That's the other thing you mentioned. I was a fucking good cop. Did you? Yeah, I did. Absolutely. You mean good stuff or bad stuff? No, good stuff. No, real good stuff. Yeah, yeah. That's the other thing you mentioned. I was a fucking good cop. Well, you said right at the beginning when you were a young cop, if you didn't go along with some of the bad shit, you'd get ostracized by the other cops.

Well, that's true. Yeah, it's true, of course. And we're not here to justify what I did. No, I know. Yeah. Christ, no. I made 47 arrests in 10 years. Like I said, I defend cops all the time.

I'm in show business. I'm a bunch of liberal fucking assholes busting my butt. I made 47 arrests in 10 years. Like I said, I defend cops all the time. I'm in show business. I'm a bunch of liberal fucking assholes busting my butt. I made 47 arrests in 10 years. I made 40 in my first year and a half. What does that tell you? Say that again? What was that?

I made 47 arrests in my career from what I heard. That's what I heard. And 40 came in the first- 40 in the first year and a half. Well, you were busy the other year. Well, I had no time to make arrests. Well, the job turned.

The job turned. It went into the quota system. It turned the whole fucking job around. Real quickly, I wanted to bring this up at the end. I just wanted to get your opinion, and this is different. The cop situation today and Black Lives Matter and unarmed black people getting shot by supposedly white cops. Well, not supposedly, but this past weekend.

Well, Maryland, they weren't all white, the cops. No, I know, absolutely. I was going to talk about Ferguson. It was the one-year anniversary yesterday, and you got Black Lives are out there marching and protesting. Raising hell again. Let me tell you something. That guy wouldn't have broke my fucking eye socket.

No one would break my eye socket if I had a gun. Not happening. That's what I'm saying. I don't get this. It's all a bunch of bullshit, okay? Listen, listen, listen. I'm with gun, not happening. That's what I'm saying. I don't get this. It's all a bunch of bullshit, okay? Listen, listen, listen. I'm with you on this one. Someone's life matters. Everybody's life matters.

When I say bullshit, I'm not saying the guy's dead. Does he deserve to be dead? Probably not. But the fact is, give people, here, let's get into it. Give the cop a lethal, give him a lethal, a non-lethal alternative. And I don't mean a day billy or something because if the guy's a monster,

he'd take it from you and knock you out with it. Even tases don't work on guys on angel dust and shit. Give him a shot anyway, right? I mean, at least you can start with something. How about a camera?

Fuck it all because you're getting filmed. Listen, if you're a cop out there, you're getting filmed whether you like it or not. That's right. Everybody's got a phone.

Freaking move. Listen, I've witnessed several of them since the last two years. I've witnessed several in Manhattan. The cops handled themselves amazingly well.

Amazing. And there was people standing there filming them the whole time. They didn't give a fuck about what was going on. They were just filming the cops. And they always get there

after the shit happens. And these cops handled themselves so well. I was very proud at that moment. I'm never a cop. I never will be a cop. Can't be a cop. You're never a cop. But so well. I was very proud at that moment. I'm never a cop. I never will be a cop. Can't be a cop.

You're never a cop. But the fact is I was so proud of those guys and the way they handled themselves right in front of the premiere. Right in front of my fucking theater. It was going on. Are you kidding me?

They were assigned to the fucking theater these two cops. It's from the 6-0 precinct. They sent them to Manhattan and they're handling a brawl. I called a 10-13 on them. Whatever.

But the fact is that they handled themselves well. But if they had a camera on them the people would know what they actually go through on a brawl. I called a 10-13 on them, whatever. But the fact is that they handled so well. But if they had a camera on them, the people would know what they actually go through on a daily basis. They'll get in film anyway. You might as well use it.

So that's starting to happen. Society has changed. That's happening. Society has changed. Yes. Everything advances. Yes. Step up with it.

Evolution. Get in with it because it's coming. So you might as well be there and it'll minimize and eliminate all the second guessing because cops have

A fucking tough job It's a brutal job I'm not stroking them No I know I'm not stroking anybody But you don't get Paid shit either Well that's another story

But you know We're not here to I mean should they all Get more money Yeah but the fact is You know Some places they're getting 125,000 a year

You know Some execs Some execs and some companies Aren't making that kind of money So you know So it's all a balance You know The a balance You know The fact is you know

I used to laugh My brother would work in Queens And I'd work in Brooklyn You know I'm like He gets the same as me Who was it Was it Denkens When you were there

Denkens Well we started out with Koch And then Denkens Right You had a little of both Yeah and then Giuliani won because of me I say

Giuliani won the fucking election Because of me Yet he tells everybody I should have got life in prison. Fuck you, too. What the fuck am I getting life for? How about de Blasio? Yeah, de Blasio.

You know, he's a strange character. Look, I know he's not behind the cops at all, but you know what? He won the election. I don't know what to say. And actually, I have to give him some credit because in the last couple of months, I think he's turned the corner a little bit. Listen, I'm to give him some credit because in the last couple of months, I think he's turned the corner a little bit. Listen, I'm not a supporter. I know that the cops are against him in some respects.

But I think he's starting to realize that he needs the cops with him and not against them. I'm trying to be politically correct here for a moment because the reality is people do change. I think he's made some positive steps. I understand. Not that I don't made some positive steps. I understand. Not that I know for a fact, but I understand. Plus, I'm now involved with the Internal Affairs Division. I'm doing some stuff with the police department, which I hope is helpful. Are there going to be cops out there going, look at this fucking guy.

Now he's with Internal Affairs. Oh, well. Grow up. What the fuck? He would have hated anybody that was on Internal Affairs. This guy's a walking contradiction. Well, some people, listen, you need internal affairs out there, don't you? Of course you do. Okay. So there you go.

Yeah. There you go. You wouldn't have said that a few years ago. No, I might have. You know, it's to get other people, not me. Yeah. To get other people. All right.

Well, hey, folks. Mike, thank you so much, brother. Don't forget to plug my book. All right. What's the name of the book? Well, we're working on the name. I think it's going to be The 7-5, The House That Coke Built. A variation of that.

Maybe you'll have me back on. Of course. Of course. TheMikeDowd.com and at TheMikeDowd on Twitter. And he's got an Instagram too. Instagram account. And you can check out, listen,

you're going to have a hard time now because I know they're going to be selling the 7.5. They're going to be selling the 7.5. So like it's no longer on demand, I guess.

But if you get in early, go through the Mike Dowd website and I think you can get an early purchase. Not through me specifically. I don't get any money for it. Right. But you can go through

my website and find the link. There's a link on my website. You sure you don't get any money for this, Mike? Do I have to fucking look find the link and there's a link on my website you don't get any money for this Mike do I have to fucking look at this listen I I wish I did because if I did they'd sell a lot fucking more movies I'll tell you right now they're making a lot of mistakes this company that's handling my movie my moves not even my movie whoever owns this movie yeah but whoever's doing this is handling it wrong they can make a lot more if they let me go but they got me they got me by the neck they

won't let me go well I appreciate you for doing the show man I'm glad you had me you know I'm glad my son and you hooked up and then we hooked up yeah that's how this came about

I'm waiting to do Mark Maron's podcast I'm sitting in my car across the street from a hotel I check my Twitter account and it's a morning and Mike Dowd

it's Mike Dowd be Mike Dowd and it says my son loves you he's a fan of your comedy or whatever so then I hit Mike back and here he is and I hope that the movie is a big hit for you yeah yeah so so you know send them

out you're a complicated guy and then everybody's complicated who isn't right we're all right we're all i'm a lover but i'm a lover first okay there you go there you go whatever that means folks so that's it uh you kids i will uh i will uh see you uh next week come out to see me at the music fest like i said uh in bethlehemem, Pennsylvania on the 21st of this month. You know the rest of the dates are at nickdip.com. I'll talk to you next time, bitches. I hope

I didn't notice I won't take all that they hand I didn't know where it was from. Cause I'm not like everybody else. No, no. I'm not like everybody else. I'm not like everybody else. I'm not like everybody else. guitar solo guitar solo I'm going to play my game.