The Problem With Jon Stewart - The Problem With War: Garbage Fire (Literally!)

Episode Date: September 30, 2021

Jon figured out how to podcast! In our first episode, he's joined by two staff members who happen to be veterans to discuss their experiences. Then, he sits down with Senators Jon Tester (D-Mont.) and Jerry Moran (R-Kan.) to talk about what’s being done in Congress to help vets suffering from toxic exposure. CREDITSHosted by: Jon StewartFeaturing, in order of appearance: Jon StewartRob ChristensenCharles WojcikHenrik BlixKris AcimovicAndy CrystalIrene PlagianosSen Jon TesterSen Jerry MoranRobby SlowikRecorded in New York, Summer of 2021Executive Produced by Jon Stewart, Brinda Adhikari, James Dixon, Chris McShane, and Richard Plepler.Lead Producer: Sophie EricksonProducers: Caity Gray, Robby Slowik Assoc. Producer: Andrea BetanzosSound Designer & Audio Engineer: Miguel CarrascalSenior Digital Producer: Kwame OpamDigital Coordinator: Norma HernandezSupervising Producer: Lorrie BaranekHead Writer: Chelsea DevantezTheme Music by: Gary Clark Jr.The Problem With Jon Stewart podcast is an Apple TV+ podcast, produced by Busboy Productions.https://apple.co/-JonStewart

Are you ready to podcast is that is it probably I came in a little hot didn't I? Okay, everybody welcome I am John Stewart. Thank you very much for tuning into the podcast This is where we will fuck around Quite a bit. It's gonna hopefully be a little bit less structured gonna allow us a little bit more of a space to Play around to follow up to Talk to some of the extra people that we want to talk to get to know some of the people work on the show They're the ones that the toil in Obscurity and quite frankly no light at the Daily Show. I created a generation of mole people

And I don't want that to be the case this time So on this episode, we're gonna be talking about burn pits just something that Iraq and Afghanistan veterans were exposed to during their deployments Overseas a burn pit is basically Everything that the military wants to get rid of on the base They dig a giant hole sometimes 10 acres and they pour jet fuel on it and they light them on fire They can burn 24-7 releasing dioxins and benzene and all kinds of other cancer causing and respiratory disease causing Items servicemen and women are getting sick and dying from exposure

To these toxins we had talked to some veterans and their families who've experienced firsthand the effects of these burn pits We did a whole show on it. So I'm just gonna show you some highlights of that. I'll not really show you you'll listen to it I don't know where you are. You're probably in the car. So take a listen. I Was a healthy Kid when I went in the army, I could run five miles like it was nothing now I can barely breathe at night if another country was doing to our veterans what we allowed to be done to our veterans We'd be at war ready the number of the veterans injured by toxic exposures Bastly exceeds the number injured by bombs and bullets. We were treated as if

We wanted a handout right now. We're a quarter million dollars in debt from cancer costs We're bankrupt and the VA still denies my claim that it's not thought of this not from exposures That's the VA and the Marine Corps responsibility. It's their responsibility and they are failing Burn pits is our generation's age and orange and the United States military and the government doesn't give a damn about us Once we're out delay deny. Hope you die. I Know we all have an assumption that veterans get health care for life but it's it's not really the case at all and Over 70% of the claims that have been filed by veterans suffering from burn pit exposure have been denied by the VA

which is not good for the Over 3 million service members who have had exposure to these burn pits So a fix is basically something called presumption that presumes that any veteran who served in the global war on terror Has been exposed to these kinds of toxins and then there's a list of illnesses that if they have them They will absolutely be covered by the VA for health and benefits We do have a couple of veterans who work here on the show And so we wanted to have a conversation with them to see if anything we were saying Resonated with them or if they thought we were weak. Are we weak and maggots?

Probably weak in maggots is where this is gonna end up But we're gonna hear their perspective on the military the VA the process, etc, etc We're talking to Rob Christiansen Charles Wojcik say what you do on the show Rob. What's your job? I'm a writer on the show what? On this show. Yeah, they hired me for some reason. Yeah, Charles and I'm a production assistant and you're also veterans of And I'm gonna say the United States military now you may have different realities, but I it's it's the United States military Yeah, the United States one correct branch Rob Air Force Air Force Reserves branch Charles Marine Corps. Oh boy. Okay, so there's already a bit of a rivalry

It goes on here. We got the brains in the brun. Yeah, I know there's all kinds of you know, we wanted to talk to you guys I think first of all in television It is not a an industry that is well populated with people who've served in the military It's not surprising right it is it is surprising Rob. How did you get that? Right it is it is surprising Rob. How did you get involved in television through stand-up comedy Charles? I actually did your veteran immersion program the internship program. Yeah, it's a daily show. Did you find that helpful? I did I had an internship at a smaller production company And then I got involved with ACP and then I did the the veteran emotion program

The thing that we found different because we started hiring the veterans off of the immersion program Did you meet these incredibly talented people and we were like it was almost like a little secret We had in the producers room like just get more of them because they're not fucking spoiled There's no sense of entitlement and they seem to have a work ethic. That's insane. Yeah, so let's just get more of them Have your friends Found a path. Is it something that has been a big struggle for a lot of the guys that you served with a lot of the women that you Served with yeah, definitely a lot of the people I served with sort of went on You know some stayed in but then others went into their different careers a lot into like business kind of seemed like a

Translatable move for them right because when you get out, there's no real road map I per se when you're in the military, it's very structured like you know where you have to be at what time prescribed very Prescribed and that is another thing. Yes, the military is hard But you know where you have to be things are sort of in a way taken care of for you like housing and medical or things of that nature Where you're gonna eat? So when you sounds like socialism, I know, right? You're given Who's paying for all that the government and you're wearing the same uniform every day

It's a socialist nightmare And then and did you always have a hankering on TV or something along those lines or just something you came into you know We talked about diversity in in hiring and things like that and when you're in an industry where you are your experience is So different and so alien is that another do you ever feel that like you know? It's important to pave the way for other veterans that come in. Do you feel any pressure from that? Yeah, I know I do like getting a job. Maybe I'm the only veteran there if I fuck up Then we go we hired a veteran he kind of sucks. So let's not go back to that route So it's like there is a bit of an added pressure like make sure I'm doing what I'm supposed to doing or exceeding the expectations

That like if they do interview another veteran, they have like a positive view in their mind, right? I have the same thing with Norwegians We used to be around a lot more in New York I do remember Rob had written a joke that just it wasn't up to par and I remember turning to Chelsea Who's the head writer and I said Scandinavian countries are Not Humorous they're too fit. They're too good-looking. What do they have to be funny about now when it turns out that we end up actually Doing a show that has content that is also relatable to your experiences out there because obviously

Feedback from people who've experienced it firsthand in those things is hugely important. Does that feel? Cathartic for you guys does it feel like a burden is a little bit of an eye roll like oh, you're gonna come talk to the veteran and See, you know, what's what's the feeling when you find out we're doing a show about? Serving in the military and burn pits and such. Oh, it's exciting Yeah, there's a bit of angst because being a veteran isn't necessarily a monolith So it's not necessarily that there's like one viewpoint within the military, right? All military entertainment it's always on the verge of eye roll It can be it could take it's always one step away from being eye rolly for me

If it's like they they treat every veteran like they're just like Captain America, right? Right, so what I'm worried about is that like when I see the veterans like I know that they're like this guy I wanted to go to college this guy needed this this guy needed that we're in an auto captain America, but the sacrifice is Real right so the sacrifice doesn't have to be for freedom and for love of country The sacrifice can be for some college and for some health insurance for my pregnant wife And you still make that sacrifice so I want to honor like the reality of that You know rather than the Captain America portion of it because I think the sacrifice is even bigger if you're going in because you want to Better yourself. Yeah, man. Yeah, I think it's also when you do make that kind of sacrifice

I think some of the ass kissing is guilt is that idea that you know Here's all these guys and they are sacrificing whether it's for patriotism or whether it's for college or whether it's for anything and There isn't a real Contribution from the country. It's all kind of kept at a distance and I think that's some of the ass kissing is like Look, we're not actually gonna support you But at a football game will announce one of you and you'll stand up and everybody will cheer and that's kind of for you too That's the attention that guy was looking for right. Yeah, everybody claps or we'll put a video on tiktok of you coming home and meeting your dog again

That's gotta be so stressful like I hope the dog jumps Better you're on the phone this dog better fucking jump Show him my fucking picture. Yeah before I get in the give him a shirt to sniff because I'm coming home Had either of you guys had any experience with what we were talking about which is like that toxic exposure I mean the military in general is mostly hazardous Materials, yeah, I had direct experience with the burn pits to play twice Afghanistan. So we had them there Terrible and were you in charge of them at some point or you just were next to them? Well next to him and then you know, I was the low guy on the totem pole

So, you know anytime trash had to go out, you know, it was usually me bringing it out I was an intelligence analyst. So when we had a burn classified materials also usually fell on me So I'd be stirring a bunch of maps and you know other various materials Jesus had you had any health effects? Do they give you like a a kind of a panel or a Medical exam to kind of check to make sure that's okay. I signed the burn pit registry But I mean, so you're good then. Yeah You know, they didn't make the connection Directly, but you know, I ended up being diagnosed with sleep apnea, but it's not for certain that it was direct exposure to burn pits

But yeah, right why why would you have to prove that you were sitting in front of a burn pit? No matter what you have shouldn't they just be like, ah fuck Let's just make sure we take you know, you worked on the you know help that with the Zidroga bill Like they don't want any sort of oh, they scammed us There's a veteran who was by a burn pit might be scamming us. So, you know, we can't work over the quite a shrewd calm You pulled I'm gonna go to Afghanistan twice Yeah, I'm gonna get in front of a burn pit stir the classified materials and jet fuel and then come home and collect that sweet apnea money

That's coming my way And what constituency is gonna be mad at a politician for like helping a veteran sleep? And it doesn't exist. It's totally made up at the top. See when I got deployed Air Force a little different We went to Borges Bulgaria and rented a summer camp And we had the Borges Bulgaria airport I get on a bus every day and go to work And our trash it went into a garbage bag, right? And that garbage bag got picked up by the Borges Bulgaria garbage men in their garbage truck So Air Force knows how to handle these things. We need to be in charge of more

Is there a frustration? Do you feel like they just Lose track of you when you're done or is there a sense that they will still live up to an obligation? Do you have optimism that this can get done? Hmm That should be the job of the VA like once you're out of whatever branch you served in Yeah, I understood I could see why they kind of forget you because you're not in anymore You're not their responsibility. You're done with your job. I mean that should be the purpose of the VA there to make sure that you're receiving any care for any injuries you sustained or any problems you had while you're in

Each VA hospital is just they're not all the same. I've been to ones that Were shitty and others that were better, right? Yeah, they treated me right so far I have like an odd thing of where I feel like I owe the military almost because Military was the first thing that changed my entire life I was going down a bad direction just like everyone else around me talking about hair loss Well, that didn't help with that Hair went but the military built the shoulders to hold up the bald head. Yeah, nice When you so for you the choice was

I'm gonna end up in a ditch. Yeah, or I need some fucking discipline. Yeah, I needed discipline I needed anything I had no options no money nothing went to the military and it gave me literally everything The first time I had a bank account and a thousand dollars that I could put into it I had a thousand dollars before but it couldn't go in a bank. It had to be hidden You know like that's the first time I had a thousand my first cell phone Like I got everything from the military you started going to college because after I went to basic training I really thought hey if I did that I can do anything and and then I followed that And then the second thing was getting into comedy those two things are why I'm alive

So I feel like I owe the military the under my underlying feeling is like at some point I have to give back I have to volunteer or something I heard charles that you joined the military to straighten rob out. Is that true? That you had heard there was this guy First of all, when did you join was it at a high school? Was it when when did you go in? Yeah, right? I was 17 I was a senior in high school. I just needed direction and also just some better Model characters in my life. That's really interesting because it is the flip side of it Which is it provides you with a kind of framework for your life as you're going

Do you feel they have an obligation to the people that serve or that everybody that goes in knows the deal? And and should they be held to an obligation? I think all veterans should just be taken care of at least with medical care And I thought that that that was the case I even learned through our digging into the va that not all veterans are taking care of I would go to a va hospital and I'd get whatever I needed But I never needed anything serious and I was never asking for more benefits So I thought in my head. Oh, everyone's taken care of but at the very least if you served in a war

You should just medical taken care of and I'm going to pitch. Maybe you don't pay taxes You know those Those two things That seems fair. Uh-huh. Okay. Well, that you know, I'm looking at that. I'm thinking well the first one. Okay in the second. Okay anything else Hot and cold running champagne What's your sense of that? Yeah, no, I mean Marine Corps obviously offered me a lot of

Opportunities that I otherwise wouldn't have had had I not enlisted Right. Um, and yeah, my main gripe was just some issues. I had with the va once I got out Right. Yeah, that is that it's such a strange thing that the va almost exists as a separate entity It's like there's no connection that like, you know, the pentagon they're making the veterans that go to the va You know, it's not a separate entity, right? Just stick the va in all the black slush fund and just forget about it It'll be taken care of done stick it over that oco slush one from aganist and you'll be all done But I wonder how much of it especially in a volunteer army is really about choices to get

A future that has prospects that you think are brighter than the one you have now And then that's why you have to put the word volunteer in quotation marks of volunteer army because how volunteer could it be if There's no education for people and people who live in impoverty and so many of those people are going to the military Is it a choice at that point? Right? Is that a discussion that happens amongst active military guys talk about like this is my way out This is my hope like I'm fucking here. I'm just trying to stay alive. I'm trying to keep you guys alive I was always struck by that Feeling of brotherhood and when people told their stories

And this would be at like Walter Reed or something when people had come back and they had been wounded The stories were never about for freedom. I it was always I saw my guy. He was down. I ran to him I got hit so then I and it really is about the band of brothers the brand of sisters that that are together More than it is anything else. It surprised me. That's the stronger bond. There's no like I'm doing this for my country I'm doing this for freedom. The strong bond is like, oh, I know this dude's daughter Like uh, he's he's going to community college on at night. You get to know these people. That's where the bond is strong You agree? Yeah, I mean when you're on a patrol like yes, you have your mission Your objective but at the end of the day like your mindset is to make sure you come back to the patrol base with the same amount of

People you left with right there's certain things you have to do want to patrol But your focus is on making sure everyone gets back. All right After having been there and now seeing all the images are going on now in afghanistan Does it stir up a lot of complex emotions? Do you feel Distance from it or do you still feel a real connection to that place and to that mission? Yeah, I mean I spent 14 months of my life there two seven month deployments But over the past couple months it's been hitting me pretty hard in terms of like seeing the result of Afghanistan and you know, it is it's definitely frustrating

While you were there. Did you have more of a a sense of optimism for a more permanent elevation of The conditions in that country and the conditions for the people and all that sort of thing I could have given you the same answer in 2011 as I could in 2013 as I could have given you last week And that's what really pisses me off Is you get these quote-unquote experts who come on the news and say we're doing this This is the progress for making when everyone echoes the same fucking sentiment Don't listen to those people because they're full of shit

They're making money off this shit. Yeah, no Everybody's making money off this shit I was on air force base when 9 11 happened and I had to ask permission because I was like both my parents work in Manhattan So I got permission. I ran to Manhattan made sure everyone was alive And then I went straight back to the military base like let's kick some fucking ass That was the attitude like let's go get it and um, that's not my attitude anymore It's been too long like I've lived three different lives since 9 11 The other thing that always

Kind of was incredible to me is the amount of bureaucracy Around soldiers getting the benefits and and health care that they need because the pentagon for their toys. They face no oversight Nobody's keeping an eye on them. Nobody's auditing them But if a soldier comes home and it's like I can't breathe They put you it's like you're a defendant in a case Does does presumption that idea that look if you were there These are the list of diseases and conditions that that may arise from that Fucking wave the paperwork

You're in does that seem like It takes care of it to some extent I think it does I think it's going to be super hard because the price tag on that is huge Right, but I think it would do two things like if it was presumption Those soldiers would be taken care of and then we would live in a reality of how much this actually costs Right So we would know now

And so that's like the presumption would also maybe if we learned anything help us going forward to the inevitable next war As long as veterans are getting the care they need that should be the the main focus I love the military, but like there is the mindset when you're in To not seek help and I think that also Impacts it. I mean the way you know the government budgets like if only x amount of people use something They're only going to give x amount of money for that program So the more veterans that seek care and there are certainly veterans who do and they don't receive it But the more veterans that do go out and seek it the better they are at funding it and getting better at their procedures

Guys, thanks very much. Oh, thank you. Thank you and uh, unfortunately, you're both fired We knew that was coming Now they're done. They did the va episode Get your shit and go So for those of you at home The you're fired is a standard humorous bit That we try out on the employees every now and again at the end of a particularly stirring and relevant conversation It's

All right, anyway Actually, there's a tremendous amount of research that goes into the show It's the age old battle of comedy shows where the writers would like to say terrible terrible things Using hyperbole, etc. And the researchers come in and say, uh, yeah, that's completely wrong Which is quite annoying for the writers and it leads us to our piece writers versus research There will be blood

I'm henrik I'm chris. We're both writers on the show So we had heard in a meeting that there was a 60 000 toilet somewhere in the pentagon And we wanted to make jokes about that because the point we're making was the department of defense can't fund veterans health care But they can spend 60 000 dollars on a toilet. Here's a joke Hey dod, if you want to shit on the vets, why buy a toilet? Just shit directly on the vets Have you ever taken a shit and thought, hmm, that's worth a teacher salary. Do you have a 60 000 ass? I hope you do because I would like to see it. Actually, I'm sorry guys

We don't know for sure that 60 000 toilet existed And here's where research comes in Hi, I'm andy and I'm the lead research producer on the show and I'm a reen. I'm a research producer on the show We looked for the toilet, but we couldn't find it. Okay. So what where did the toilet thing came from? The toilet came from john stewart himself He heard that there was a 60 000 toilet somewhere either at the pentagon or location undisclosed that exists in america So that kind of set us down, uh, this quest to find the mythical toilet We called a bunch of experts. None of them had any idea what we were talking about really

But chuck rassley did write, uh, an article that told us there was a 10 000 toilet seat So we were hoping the joke could be about toilet seats. No, I mean, it's over. You ruined it. We've moved on But truly thank you for keeping us from getting sued by the department of defense. You guys want to hear some more bangers? No, no, we got more. Uh, great For 60 k it better suck the turds right out of you. The bidet irrigates your butthole with prosecco The only 60 k toilet I've ever used is the sunroof to my stepdad's Cadillac The pentagon has a 60 000 toilet or as jeff basis would call it a mid-level employee If I pay 60 k for a piss it better be on me

And they've left the room I gotta tell you I don't know how they don't come to blows at lunch Perhaps it because I don't allow them to eat with utensils So there's nothing to stab with It does turn out though that there are some solutions on the table down in washington that could Advance the ball for veterans health care, especially where it comes to toxic exposures There's a bill coming out of the senate called the cost of war act

Sponsored by the chairman of that senate veterans affairs committee john tester of montana so we got a chance to talk down with To talk with senator john tester montana and senator jerry moran who is the ranking member On the senate veterans affairs committee to find out What the status is of that bill? What do they think of its chances? And that's really all we're gonna ask them. I I'm not sure I want to know anything else I gotta tell you senator moran you got you got the dulcet tones man. You've got a nice You've got a nice radio thing going there senator tester. How are you man?

If I was any better, I'd be john stewart, you know get out of here John before we talk to you let me talk to this other john and say is there anything we want to do to gang up on him Like do we have any plot plan that we should have talked about on john stewart on john stewart? Oh, yeah, man. We got some we got some shit moran. Did you get the memo? I'm too You can't too nimble. All right. I'm prepared For for everything first of all guys. Thanks. Thanks so much for sitting down with us. It's it's much appreciated Great to be with you John we're happy to be here and and senator tester night chairman tester and I are

Are certainly appreciative of your efforts to get us congress and the administration to move on This issue of toxic exposure and what it means to veterans who are still being denied benefits. Amen to that Amen to that and and senator moran. Does he make you call him chairman tester? Is that the way he must be addressed at all times? Well, I was trying to be informal on this program It's usually something much more, you know, your honor your honor kamadan. Sure. I get it It's not a problem last time. I was down there. You guys were introducing your cost of war act Senator tester, you were introducing that to committee. It passed at a committee Uh, for those who don't know it's a comprehensive

Bill that addresses toxic exposure burn pits. It includes presumptions for a number of different diseases It includes training for va. I just wanted to ask you guys just to start off with Where are we at? Where where does it stand now and and how are things looking where it's at right now as we're still waiting Uh for some additional information from the va We need to know how much it's going to cost so we can figure out how to pay for this doggone thing That information is going to come in the next couple two three weeks. I think And and then once we get that then jerry and I can sit down an arm wrestle and figure out how we get this thing to the floor Now I did get a chance to sit down with secretary mcdonald at the va

And it felt like there was a reluctance on their end To work with congress that they wanted to work through a process outside of legislative fiat That they wanted to go through it has that been the experience that that you've had with the va and has that changed Well, I would say that the experience with the va is that they were slow to give us information that we needed to make decisions They were reluctant to do things that they could do on their own Without I don't know them wanting additional information themselves as a result of the bill coming out of the committee The va is behaving differently and they are providing us with information. That's useful

But the perhaps the most important thing is they've taken steps to begin To add presumptions to the list So on their own without congressional action So I I think the answer to the to your question is they have changed their behavior and are moving In a few weeks, uh, that we're going to have the information that we need That's uh, that's good news and I would tell you proof of that is uh early august Uh, they announced disability benefit claims for veteran severed chlamasma Ryanitis sinus sinusitis

I don't think they'd have done that if we hadn't got this bill out and and that's it's a small step But it's it's a big step too and I would say also To your point Look, uh agencies like to do what they want to do, you know, congress to agencies is sometimes a pain in the neck But our job is to hold those agencies accountable to make sure they're doing the job And that's part of the deal and and that really supersedes politics When we're talking about the va And jerry and I work very very well together and oftentimes we agree on all this stuff

So we're both calling the vf saying what the heck's going on here guys Senators, what do you think is the reluctance because when I spoke with secretary mcdonough, you know, we talked a little bit about presumption take a listen What gave you the I guess the confidence that the science or the information had reached the level where you felt comfortable giving presumption Whereas with these other constrictive bronchiolitis All right, uh lymphomas colon cancers Why do you feel like the information hasn't reached that level? We're able to look and make the decision on these first three conditions based on what were the metrics

We I wish I I want to be able to answer the question. I just don't I I haven't But you you were satisfied that that met the statute. I was satisfied So i'm really trying to understand. What's the bar you're looking for? Because to not be able to articulate that clearly Really troubles me I don't and and by the way, I don't doubt your empathy and I don't doubt your care I really don't and that's why I'm here talking to the the the beauty is I don't really give a shit You know as you so, um, I don't I don't really care what you think if I'm doing a good job or not

I care what the vets You're asking a very logical question, which is okay. So do you need like? uh You know three papers from five researchers or what is it right and I I I I don't know the answer to that But if you don't know the answer, how do you know when you found it? I'm curious what you guys Think about that. So john, I'm going to tell you that I think science is very very important and I think that The review of some of these, uh problems

Sometimes takes a lot longer and anybody's comfortable with And so we need to we we need to continue to push the agency and we need to continue to push them to push the people Who are doing the research to get it done in a timely way? I mean, you know this very very well if you take a look at agent orange I mean, we're still talking about agent orange exposures in 2021. Are you give me a break? I mean, that's crazy. So I think what we've tried to do is we've tried to push them Look, this can be a lot of extra work. I mean, there's no doubt about it If we get this bill signed in the law, this is going to be a lot of extra work for the vi

We just got to make sure that it's done as timely as we can make it happen And it's a part of our jobs that we have to to try to prod that along to to prod that along And where I think we're doing that I sometimes think that when it particularly with the stereotype of republican That there's a thought that this is all about the money So from from my perspective, I mean the the money matters because it tells us something about what we're doing and what it costs And what we're going to have to appropriate But money for the department of veterans affairs is not something that's been in short supply We've increased nearly 40 of the amount of spending at the department of veterans affairs

But I think the real issue here is operations Well, how does the va handle these new responsibilities? That's a higher priority for me What's it going to do to the backlog of benefits that are already is already huge? A backlog is considered a benefit that's been waiting 125 days, right? So that's that increased nearly 200 increase over the last year or so And the explanation I guess would be covid But what happens when this new arrival of a new benefit new benefits arrives? What does it do to diminish the capability of the va to provide for other veterans?

The va now expects the backlog to further balloon to 700,000 claims Even if congress provides the department with more resources to process those claims now the the pushback I guess I would have on that is we've been involved in a war for 20 years And you would expect that the budget for an organization That exists to care for veterans who are wounded and and their families Is going to balloon in a 20 year war and if you look at the pentagon budgets To prosecute those wars those have gone up Exponentially to the point where you know you have in an oco fund that's 60 billion dollars 70 billion dollars a year

That is Relatively unaccountable. So while I I appreciate the concern The true cost of war is something we never really deal with in this country Which is there's always money to prosecute the war. There's always money for defense contractors and if that is A national defense issue. That's great But a covenant was made with these soldiers and their families And I think it's really hard to watch this go down 20 years later

And then they balance the budget sort of on the back of these soldiers Because there's a backlog of claims so that you know the reasoning behind it is well, there's a backlog of claims Or we night, you know, we don't really have the expertise or we don't really have the science And I think we could walk through each one of those pretty easily and knock them down pretty good, especially the science one Well and john that was my point which perhaps I didn't make It was a poor communicator. My wife says that about me all the time. I'm a poor communicator But the point I was making is this should not be a an appropriations of budget issue. I see That we we are in my view

We're providing significant increases to the department of veterans affairs with the hope that they get their act together Their operational act together to use that money to meet what you said the 20 years of this war in afghanistan And at the same time take care of veterans who are already waiting for the benefits that they earned in previous wars I don't think there's any Any disagreement whatsoever that when we send men and women off to war that we have an obligation as an american taxpayer To try to get their life back to as normal as we possibly can We also have an obligation with this bill To get enough votes to get this baby passed and get it to the president's desk

What what john and I think is not necessarily what every member of the united states senate Who's going to be voting on this bill? So we all have to fashion a bill that doesn't just satisfy a handful of us But satisfies at least 60 of us and some people will have different priorities on how they spend money But my my priority is to keep the commitments That have been made to those who served and that commitment was if you suffer an an injury or a condition as a result of Your service and as a result you are in need of health care Or as a result you are in need of benefits to compensate for loss of income

Then they there's not a question about that we that we need to provide that the answer to that is absolutely Yes, the decision was made to care for these veterans The day that we started battle in afghanistan And it's not a decision that we now can can change the decision was made our responsibility our requirement is That that decision is fulfilled, you know, i'm curious guys Why do you think it is that toxic exposure? Is not looked upon in the same way as a physical wound that why why do you think it's not looked at as Sort of an ied that goes off in your body seven to ten years later

So that connecting it to service is not so difficult for these families You know, there's a memo that went out at the pentagon that said We have to stop using burn pits It's putting the health and welfare and safety of our soldiers In danger and then a memo went out from the va from them internally saying Here are the toxins and you're going to start to see cases If if you see anybody from iraq or afghanistan you have to presume that they've been exposed to And it lists, you know tetraflora carbons and benzene and dioxins and a list of illnesses

And here we are 12 years later And they're still saying to these soldiers. Yeah, we're going to look at the science. They knew then And it's the same chemicals that were used in age and orange. So i'm having a hard time Understanding why this process isn't flipped a little bit And instead of talking about Science and cost it's purely not about a five-year implementation program The va clearly has the ability to have expertise there When they're dealing with amputees and adaptive rehabilitation, it's second to none

Why is toxic exposure so trapped? And so many years behind And and why are we losing so many soldiers while we wait? Look, i'll give you my perspective when you're talking about an explosion It is a specific event and you can point right to that event And and you can point right to the the damage that was done by that event When you have something like age and orange or you have something like radiation or in this case burn pits It's it's a general

Exposure over a period of time. It's not one and done and and move on I agree with you. Look, I think if we had better communication between the va and the department of defense This didn't need to happen. But the truth is if you burn a Garbage beside a barracks, that's a problem and and we need to have folks think about that angle too But but look, I can't argue with you, john I mean, I think that that we've always been Late to the party when it comes to toxic exposure the issue here mostly to me is operational How do you get the va to provide the the services and benefits?

But also I would highlight your memo you highlight the fact that there are veterans who have not received benefits Even though that was known then I also would highlight in addition to that there are veterans that were exposed after that After it was known and created more veterans with more problems. So if the department of defense is already saying that in 2009 I mean the department of defense should be held accountable for their Negligence in not protecting the soldiers that now have this I couldn't agree more. I think that's absolutely right Why are there thousands more of veterans that could have avoided being? Exposed to toxic substances if the department of defense already knew absolutely

And the strange thing is, you know, the contractors are granted sovereign immunity So there's no recourse for the soldier in terms of negligence of The contractor who you know, we all know You can't burn the types of hazardous materials with jet fuel in these giant pits next to people sleeping You certainly can't do it in the united states and you shouldn't be able to do it even in a theater of war Especially when incinerators exist Were shipped there in many cases and weren't implemented My concern is

With the science and with the implementation if cost wasn't an issue We would be working on a five-year plan of implementation of Toxic exposure expertise and really ramping up the VA What do you guys think about defense contractors footing some of this bill? You know, they make $400 billion a year from the defense department Is there anything like you would do with an oil company that would go to a trust fund?

That would in some way be useful for the consequences of their profit Yeah, I mean, so that's a problem. I would say there's one thing more than cost though, john And that's capacity I mean, aren't they connected though? They are absolutely connected, but oftentimes capacity comes after the money and so You know, you gotta You can say all right. So we can say all right. We're going to give you 500 billion dollars That doesn't necessarily mean you're going to deal with the issue immediately. It's still going to take time I just think it would it would be a much more positive message to the soldiers who've been waiting

If they knew it was a five-year implementation plan not a not a five to ten year Yeah, we're going to look at the nas studies, which we know are paid for by the VA and don't have Complete information fair point a fair point. I can't argue it We need to provide these veterans with something called hope That this is not an unending process I love the word hope because I think we all need that I would I would say um beyond that the va I mean We generally have you know hearings and you have a panel of va witnesses and then you have a panel of veteran witnesses

The va is there, but they ought to they ought to put down their shield and just come set and have You know the cup of coffee and figure out how we move more quickly I can't agree more with what jerry moran just said I think how we solve the problems that you've brought up here is is getting Everybody at the table even if this bill passes tomorrow I still think you have to get everybody at the table and say all right now How do we implement this as quickly and as efficiently as possible, right? The toxic exposure crisis is also a mental health crisis

And you have a lot of people who've lost that hope center moran and and you see suicide and you see Families broken and it's it's really difficult, but I'm going to share with you something isaah james said he was on our panel He's an infantryman served in uh, I believe it was a rock Maybe even afghanistan and he said something chilling which was if any other country Treated our fighting men and women And did this in the way that we're doing it to them. We would be at war And I thought that was a really powerful statement of how they feel which is abandoned

And I think they feel exploited and I think we there's only one way to change that narrative And that's to Be proactive and not wait for the things that we know already exist I just wanted to get your feeling on What I have found to be a relatively pervasive state That these veterans are feeling post war well, I mean that's um That's unfortunate. I will tell you that I've been on the VA committee for 15 years and uh

My goal has always been to try to make the world right for the folks who serve this country because they've sacrificed their families have sacrificed And we need to make sure that it if they're changed because of war that we the government has their back The fact that that folks think that they have been shortchanged With their military service is is not a good sign and and I'll tell you in a country that has no volunteer military It can have some really negative effects on our national security. So all all I would tell you is that What I do I think Jerry will tell you the same thing Is I work with the veteran service organizations? We try to prioritize most of the time these guys are on the same page

The reason we have this bill in front of us right now is because every Veteran service organization came in the beginning of this congress and said do this. This is our number one priority And so that's that's where we're going. Is there any chance this congress? Let's say veterans days or any chance this thing comes out and really gets down to the floor And and we find ourselves in a place of real progress. Yeah, I think there is and I and I will tell you that Um, I think we can get this bill done Uh by the end of the year if we don't get it done by the end of the year It's not the end of the world because we're going to be doing the same thing after january 1st

2 but the bottom line is I think the goal is to get this done sooner rather later and uh, and hopefully it'll be As soon as possible and listen anything that we can do on our end To help push it whether it's uh, you know through veterans outreach or anything else You know we'll do because I do notice that sometimes it takes a little bit of the glare of the light To maybe focus the energy down there and and we're obviously happy to do it for something that we think is is so urgent And so crucial and quite frankly. I'm just tired of losing people. Yep We are too All right guys. I I really appreciate your time. I really appreciate you guys sitting together and crafting this bill

Uh with with so much support and input from the different veterans communities And uh, I really look forward to A big change happening in their lives, you know in the near future We have more work to do john and we're we're we're going to get her done All right, sir. Uh, thank you guys very much senator moran of kansas senator tester of montana Thanks john So that brings us towards the end of the episode where after all this conversation and joking around We actually like to highlight somebody who is truly doing good work

Perhaps somebody that you have never heard of perhaps somebody who toils in anonymity to bring change and increments So here we go with shout out to a boring motherfucker with robbie sloak This week we're shouting out michigan senator gary peters Because we're so sick of all the media attention going to the politicians who are like Getting into twitter wars with bet middler or something and losing and it's like aren't you a senator? Why are you fighting broadway legends online? Why are you tongue kissing a rifle on instagram than going on cnn to defend that when you should be trying to help your constituents? But they're the ones who get all the press and never senators like gary peters

Who was the most effective senator in the 116th congress, which was just this last one He sponsored 10 bills that were signed into law Including two that directly helped veterans and he did it all without a sex scandal Which for a senator is really something when you guys are all 80 years old. How are you still doing this? What do you have candy jars of sea alice laying around your offices? You can follow the good work senator peters is doing on twitter Where his handle is at senator gary peters not super creative which tracks because he's too busy doing the work And his feed is so boring

It could be a contestant on the bachelorette and not one who's cut right away No, those guys are usually interesting one who gets sent home right before hometowns who stick it out right till the very end And make you watch their boring journey those guys are always the worst anyway Follow senator gary peters shout out to that boring motherfucker That's it everybody that is the first episode of the podcast I now have my podcasting merit badge, which I will put on my podcasting sash Which goes along with my podcasting attache. We truly hope you enjoyed it. Thank you again for joining us You

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