The Royals of Malibu - LATTES WITH LUCY E6 - Should I Call Off My Wedding with Chris Cafero (Reed)

Episode Date: September 9, 2024

Welcome to Lattes with Lucy, a special bonus series of The Royals of Malibu hosted by Stephanie Sherry (Lucy in The Royals of Malibu). Today, Chris Cafero (Reed) joins Steph and Emma to discuss if our listener should cancel her upcoming wedding, how to be nicer to your mom and more. This show is different because we want to hear from you! Let us be the Lucy to your Ella Sinclair - and write to us your questions on life. Let us know what you’re going through, nothing is too big or too small, too scandalous or too cringe - whatever you may be going through, we want to hear it. You can write/upload your questions at https://www.emeraldaudio.co/latteswithlucy for a chance to be featured in the show. • Follow The Royals of Malibu on Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/theroyalsofmalibu/) • Follow Stephanie Sherry on Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/itsstephsherry/?hl=en) • Follow Emerald Audio on Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/emeraldaudionetwork/?hl=en) • Follow The Royals of Malibu on TikTok (https://www.tiktok.com/@theroyalsofmalibu) • Explore more: https://www.emeraldaudio.co Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Download today. 19 plus, Ontario only. If you have questions or concerns about your gambling or the gambling of someone close to you, please go to ConnixOntario.ca. Just a disclaimer before we jump in, the content of this podcast is intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. We are not licensed therapists, counselors, or mental health professionals, while we aim to provide insightful and helpful discussions. We hope our views and advice are based on personal experiences and general professionals while we aim to provide And just like that, we are back. Welcome everybody to yet another episode of Lattes with Lucy,

a special bonus series of the Royals of Malibu. I of course am not Lucy, but I'm Stephanie Sherry and this right there is Emma DeMuth. How are you, Emma? Hey, Steph. I'm good. I'm a little exhausted. I'm running on like four hours of sleep. I just got back from a podcast conference. Yes, talk about it. Yeah, I was in Washington, DC. I actually met quite a few Trom fans. No. At the conference. Yeah. One person actually recognized me at a cafe. They're like, oh my gosh, are you from the Royals of Malibu? And I'm like, I'm not in the show, but yeah,

I produce it. And it was really cool. And I just, I talked to a lot of people that are huge fans of the show. So I wanted to tell you guys that. We have a very special guest today. That's true. Who could it be? Could it perhaps be the Chris Cafero? Oh! What's up, everybody? Reed Royal himself. Reed Royal, thank you so much for being here.

Oh my gosh. Thank you for having me. This is so exciting. I do have a bone to pick with both of you. Oh no. Because remind me what episode this is? Six. And what episode was Nick Cafero on? Dare We Say 2? Oh, okay. Cool, cool, cool. Yeah. Six. And what episode was Nick Ferrell on? Dare we say two?

Oh, okay. Cool, cool, cool. Uh huh. Yeah. So he was first on the list. Got it. Cool. Yeah.

How does that make you feel? Furious, angry, betrayed. Oh, God. All feelings are welcome, though betrayal is very, very tromped. So thank you for sharing that. Chris, this was very strategic. We saved you for the mid-season arc because we have to keep it interesting.

So we have to put our best in the middle. Okay, so Nick was like the Cafero soft launch, and now we're really bringing in the closer. Exactly. Don't tell him that. We were just like trying things out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But now that we're like locked and loaded, as we so clearly are today, you are brought in for only the finest of episodes, which is this one.

PAUL Nice recovery, but I'll allow it. JANELLE Wow. I hope that Nick told you he had a good time. PAUL He did have a good time. And I listened to his episode and it was great. It was so much fun. JANELLE I know. Could you believe he actually had advice? I was really surprised. You know? PAUL Yeah. JANELLE Chris, how are you feeling about the ending of season two? I mean, what a wild, wild ride. Oh, I know. Uh, I loved that might've been my favorite episode, that final episode. Yeah.

I mean, there's no spoilers on here, right? Like everybody, we're assuming is caught up so I can talk about it freely. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I mean, the biggest question, of course, is who killed Brooke? Which is so, I mean, I thought in retrospect, obviously, on the Royal Boys, we did a rewatch and a recap. When you go back and listen to that episode, the writers have really dropped quite a few breadcrumbs that we could potentially follow. And I think it like opens motives for a lot of different characters. So I'm hopeful that we'll be able to

explore that soon. But it was great. And of course, most importantly, at the end of the season, she picks Reed over Isaac, which is the most important thing. Such a win. Yeah. And that's such a cute moment where she like, it's like, it's you, it's always been you. It's very sweet. It was so, so sweet.

We talked a little bit last, no, it's not last week, because this is coming. We talked a little bit on Keanu's episode about who we thought might have killed Brooke and we she did confirm breaking news. She did confirm that it's not Ella because we are in her POV the whole time, which might seem obvious, but you know, there are shows that, you know, mislead you and have you question, you know, your your narrator. I was pretty adamant that I don't think Lucy did it. Do you have any pretty adamant that I don't think Lucy did it. Do you have any thoughts? Because since we don't know who did, do you think Reed did?

Look, I don't know. I think Reed could have. But I don't know if he did, but I think Callum could have. I think Easton could have. I think Dinah could have. I think there were a lot of people who were pissed off at her, and it's possible that she wasn't pushed at all. She could have jumped. She was, you know, she was in a state. She was in a tizzy. Maybe it was a mystery, different character

who we haven't met yet. The bartender, I don't know. I don't know. It's always the bartender. I was the bartender and they changed my voice. Emma! Yeah. Did you kill Brooke?

Emma. I actually, well, I mean, I actually know who killed Brooke. I'm just enjoying listening to you guys theorize, but my lips are sealed. Please. I will say, yeah, the first episode of season three is going to be interesting. Wait, so it's written? We know? Yes.

It's been, it's being plotted. I love that. I feel like the fate of our characters is in the balance. Like my God. Yeah. Well, you know, as Steph, you're an actor. Emma, I don't know if you have any acting experience, but you know, your job as an actor is to understand and justify the motivations of your character. And so when you ask that question, you know, when you read the script

that's open-ended as an actor, you have to decide like, how do I play this in a way that leaves the door open for both things to be justifiable? And, you know, Reed has shown over the course of two seasons that he is liable to snap and he has some anger issues and he has some violence issues and he's extremely loyal and protective of the people he loves. And similar to the ending of season one

where we caught a glimpse right at the end of Reed and Brooke in bed, everyone assumed Reed slept with Brooke and cheated on Ella and what happened? That wasn't the case. Right? That was not the case. That was not the case. So, you know, that's what keeps us on our toes

is the possibilities. Wait, correct me, that's what keeps us on our toes is the possibilities. Wait, correct me if I'm wrong. You're wrong. Maybe this was... Thank you. In... Aren't they like in the middle of like having their moment when this happens? Or is that not at all true?

If I recall correctly, Reed runs up to Ella at the party and he's about to tell her something and she kisses him. And so we don't know what Reed was about to tell her. But prior to that scene, he had been like, I'm going to go talk to Brooke or I'm going to go see what's going on. And Callum was all, Oh, wow, they really plant that. And then Ella drags him into a closet and they're, you know, in the throes of their lovemaking or whatever, and they hear the police and the screaming. And so, yeah, lots of questions. Brooke is discovered right after that moment.

Yeah. It's unclear when she actually fell. Right. And then the question is like, if, if Reed did do it, the question as an actor is, how do you justify that in a way that makes Reed still a good person? Can he be a good person? I don't know. So maybe for Chris's sake, it would be so fun for it to be Reed for your acting journey. But for the fans, I'm sure it would be bereft, to say the least. That would be really sad.

Maybe or maybe they love the drama and that's part of the ride. Yeah. Who's to say? All right. Well, talking of crimes and then perhaps living a life that's not full of questionable choices, let's guide some fans to some good life choices. And Chris, are you ready to do so? I am. And I really appreciate the disclaimer up top because I, yeah, if you're seeking real help, this isn't a place for it. But not me, certainly not me. But I will do my best to give some honest and earnest and thoughtful advice. A brief aside, Chris, what are you qualified to talk on, would you say? Very little. Like the New York Mets.

Okay, the Mets. That's really it. Well, Wicked the Musical. Wicked the Musical. My girlfriend's currently on Broadway in Wicked, and so I know a lot about Wicked on Broadway. And if she's so great in it, and if you have the chance, if you're in New York, go see it. She plays Nessa Rose, the Wicked witch of the East.

Yeah. That's so cool. It's a great show. I've seen it. I'd seen Wicked like six times before I even met Natalie. And then, and now I've seen it since she's been in it. I've seen it four more times. I've never seen Wicked.

And I'm from New York and like went to Broadway my entire life. It's actually like the strangest thing. I literally lived like 30 minutes outside of the city have seen everything and I don't know what's wrong with me. You must see it and I know he's coming out in November in the movie. The movie incredible. Yes. I know it really does Well on that note, yeah Should we give some advice?

Yeah, we know we we should the first one is actually like really like the juiciest one I think we've gotten so far but we're covering all the bases We have a relationship question and we have a friendship question and then we have a family question love it, so We will start with question one. This is from Savannah. You guys ready? Yeah. Of the name. I recently saw messages from my fiance to his brother. I didn't mean to he asked me to do something on his phone and I saw the notification on his home screen, saying that he wasn't sure he actually wants to get married. He said he doesn't feel a quote connection with me and never has. We've been together two years now have a house and two dogs. The wedding is about a month away and I don't know what to do.

When I confronted him he said it was just cold feet and that's not what he meant. But it's made me incredibly insecure and I don't know how to get past it. This is real? This is real. Oh my God. I feel like I kind of want Chris to start. I'm still in shock.

Well, look, Savannah, first of all, I'm sorry that you had to read that because that's tough. I think that you said that you've addressed it with him, which would be my first bit of advice, is like, you need to talk about this. And you need to have a serious talk about it. Um, the wedding's two months away? One month.

One month away. Ooh. I mean, look, I think that they're, again, going back to the acting thing and like, studying the motivation and the justification. I think at any phase of any relationship, there's doubt, there's nerves, and I'm sure Savannah's feeling some of that too, and that's totally normal. Like feeling uncertain or scared.

I think that to say that you are not, that you are not, that you're nervous or unsure about marriage is one thing, but to express a lack of a connection with your partner is totally different. And the one is understandable, the other is like, well, then you need to do some deep thinking about what this relationship is. So my recommendation would be,

having that serious talk with him, maybe we pause the wedding and we do couples therapy and we get down to the bottom of this because it's such a significant commitment. I was gonna say lifelong, obviously that's not always the case, but you don't wanna go into a marriage thinking about divorce or

separation. So this needs to be ironed out and you need to be absolutely sure about your partner, maybe not marriage or union, but you need to be 100% sure about your partner. And if you're not, then you need to, you need to hit the brakes. Yeah, I completely agree. And I feel like it's so hard to know when we don't know this person. But if, for instance, he is someone who, when stressed, will just kind of say things that are really hyperbolic and histrionic and out of pocket. If he is, for instance, spiraling, it's like, we've never had a connection and we never will. If it's a sign of hysterics, that's one thing. But if, like Chris is hinting at, if he's really saying we've never had a connection,

what is he doing? I don't understand how – it's almost like it paints – at least, again, all we know is what we've been told. I don't want to generalize someone unfairly, but it really paints the picture of someone that's been disingenuous for a while, which to me is the number one transgression anyone can do. Honesty is the most important thing to me. I don't know how you don't figure out you don't have a connection until a month before. That's very suspicious to me. It means one of two things. You either are truly spiraling, you don't actually mean that, and you're just scared that the connection you thought you have isn't good enough, or you've thought this for a while and never said anything. And if that's

the truth, like, I don't mean to be harsh, part of me is like, don't even do couples therapy, like leave like this person's unwell. I don't know. This is this is I just, I don't even do couples therapy, like leave like this person's unwell. I don't know. This is this is I just, I don't want the fact that the wedding's a month away to cloud the fact that this is like a major issue. Like, I think it needs to be resolved, even if your wedding was tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah, I think I agree with everything you guys said. I think this just needs like a several long conversations. And I think you're right, Steph,

it's one or the other, it's possible, maybe they got in a really bad fight the night before. And like, I think we've all sent a text that we may be regretted the next day. And it's still nice, he still should apologize to you. Like, that's not okay to even send to his own brother. That's just very uncool. And he's the one that proposed to you, I imagine. Right? So I mean, you know, we're obviously talking about this through the lens of Savannah, because he's the one that proposed to you, I imagine. Right? So I mean, you know, we're obviously talking about this through the lens of Savannah, because she's the one

who's asking the question. But my, the person who's really should be the target of our advice and counsel is her fiance. Because that's on you, dog. You if you're feeling that way, then you need to man up and say it and own own these emotions and address them now because otherwise you're going to go through with something and you're going to wake up one day and regret it and it's going to be your fault for not being honest with your partner and honest with yourself. I think the problem with this situation is that you can't unring a bell, right?

Like it's out there, she saw it. She thinks that you think this, whether it was a bad night or whatever, it's out there. And that cat's not getting back in the bag. So it's on this guy to prove himself that he is ready for this relationship and for this marriage and wedding. And I really think Savannah should be like, hey, man, this is you have some explaining to do. And if you want to make it work and keep me, then you got to put in the work and earn my

trust again, because right now it's gone. Yeah. Yeah. I think you're right, Chris. I think he needs to spend this next month working his ass off and showing flowers every single day, not necessarily that, but really proving himself. If he's just nonchalant about this,

like, oh, you should get over it, then I think that's a huge red flag. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Well, and should get over it, then I think that's a huge red flag. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Well, and the other thing I'll say to Savannah is like, you have time. You know, I know you have these, these deadlines or these dates, but like, life is long. And don't pressure yourself and give yourself a confined timeframe to make a major, major decision given this new information.

Like that's artificial. Remove that. Like that's what would be the first thing. If you know in your heart that it's going to take more than a month to regain this trust or to figure out, and yes, you might lose a couple of deposits and it would be a nightmare to cancel, but it's better than like the short-term pain is better than the long-term risk, I think. So the first thing I would do is be like, time out, pause everything. We need to figure this out

because we're not taking this next step. Just because it's printed on some nice embossed invitation. We're not taking this next step. Just because it's printed on some nice embossed invitation. We're not taking this next step until you're ready and I'm ready and it doesn't sound like either of them are ready at this point. You should get married because you both want to not because you feel like you have to.

God, there's nothing worse than when someone says something if we just make it very simplistic. Someone says something, your biggest fear either about yourself or about the relationship and it like sticks with you, they apologize, and there's just nothing worse than like, I want so much more than anything to rewind to before this happened or to pretend this never happened, but I can't. And that is just you have to, if there's like a little voice inside of you that's not letting it go, it's because a part of you hasn't let it go. And that's really valid. And you don't need to squash that, like we're all saying in the name of saving money, not rocking the boat. And by the way, she probably like really wants to get married and still wants to marry him. And it's just like,

this is really hard. Yeah. It's just like, this is really hard. Yeah. I also think it's interesting that he asked her to do something on his phone. And there is this small part of me, this is maybe conspiratorial thing, but I think that there are people who want to be caught. Yeah, I knew you were gonna say that.

Even like unconsciously. Yeah, subconsciously or consciously. I think there's like, you know, you maybe be wanted to see I think and sometimes because you don't have the courage to bring it up or or do it on your own and I think a lot of relationships in this way were like. One person is checked out but rather than being the the brave one and ending it they force the other person's hand by either cheating on them or, you know, being rude for however long or like trying to force them to end it so they don't have to be the bad guy. I hate that. Which is BS and maybe that's what happened here

because that's, I don't know. I don't know how you like, just accidentally let your fiance see that you don't want to marry her on your phone. Yeah, no, no. Well, on that note, Savannah, thank you so much for writing us in. Our hearts are with you. Please keep us posted on what you do decide. Yeah, for real.

Yeah, good luck. All right, guys, we're going to take a quick break. But after the ad break, we are going to talk about a friendship question. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. What's a time in your life that you'd like to reflect on? Whether it's from your childhood or last month, it can be really helpful to talk through pivotal moments in our lives in order to learn more about ourselves. For me personally, talking with my BetterHelp therapist has helped me

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Visit BetterHelp.com slash Lattes today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash lattes. Hey guys, it's Emma from the Royals of Malibu and Emerald Audio. I don't know about you, but everything seems to be getting more and more expensive these days. That's why I absolutely love saving money on my online shopping with Rakuten. Rakuten is the smartest way to save money when you shop because you can earn cash back at over 3,500 stores. We're talking fashion, beauty, electronics, home essentials, travel, dining, concert tickets, and more. Your favorite stores like Sephora, Urban Outfitters, and Levi's pay Rakuten to send them shoppers.

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Get the Rakuten app now and join the 17 million members who are already saving. Cashback rates change daily, see rakuten.com for details. That's R-A-K-U-T-E-N. Your cashback really adds up. All right guys, here's question number two. Her name is Miranda and she is from Florida. Hey Stephanie, day one listener here and cannot wait for season three.

Anyways, enough of the praises, let's get into it. I met a friend at a concert about two years ago and although we have the exact taste in music, it's starting to feel like a very one-sided friendship. I'm the one to initiate conversations slash virtual hangouts, and it'll take weeks for this person to even get back to me through text. We're both in our late 20s, and I obviously get life is busy and friendships look different compared to even 10 years ago, but it does still hurt when you're the one, quote, putting in all the effort. Do I go with my gut to bring this up and just wait for her to respond back? Thanks for all you do, both you and Stephanie and the entire

cast and crew of Trom from Miranda. Wow, Miranda, I'm so glad that you love the show and that you love Trom. It is so difficult when there's a perceived imbalance in a friendship. I feel like it's really, really unsettling and there is such a trend or accepted norm lately. I feel like sometimes being like chill and not wanting to be too needy and everyone's doing their thing and it's fine and I'm fine and I'm fine and I'm fine. It's at a certain point when when are you not fine? And when is something worth bringing up? And that's obviously what we're talking about here. And I think it's funny, we talk about this a lot on this show of this kind of hierarchy of friends. And if this is someone

who you want to be kind of like a ride or die, like inner circle, like super reliable friend, then of course, it's worth it to be brought up. But it's interesting. You mentioned that you guys met at a concert and you have a lot of similar tastes in music. That as a baseline to me indicates a more experiential friend, like, this is a friend I do things with, this is a friend I talk shop with, and doesn't necessarily imply a friend that is of the best friend accord. Now, obviously, if you hold this person in that regard and you feel like that's what you want this to be, then absolutely bring it up. But I think I'm wondering, I'm like

surmising if perhaps what's going on here is maybe this friend views you more as that first type of friend I just mentioned and doesn't really realize you want that kind of connection with her, and perhaps doesn't really have the capacity for that. Now, we don't know that. And I think the theme to all of our responses on here, and I learn this every day, is that we are not mind readers. We do not know always what other people are thinking. We might think we do, we might have a good idea, but we don't know. And I think it's been like the lesson of my life over the last few years in giving like my friends the benefit of the doubt and

you know seeing where she's at and I think there's a way to bring it up that doesn't have to feel like an ultimatum or super intense. I think you can just say to her ultimatum or super intense. I think you can just say to her, like, hey, I just feel like you're one of my most valued friends and we have just so much in common. And you don't even need to say that, but I feel like you're one of my most valued friends. And I feel like something I'm kind of working on in my friendships lately is feeling like things are a little more equal, a little more shared. And I'm just wondering if it's possible. It's hard. Even I can't figure out how to put it. Because you want to ask for your needs without it feeling like you're asking for too much. But I think the reality is it shouldn't be too much for someone who's able to handle it.

I think you just have to be honest with what you're looking for, but be open to her maybe not being able to give you that. Yeah, I think that's really good advice. There's a saying I've always, you know, repeated, which is you have friends for a reason, friends for a season, and friends for life. And, you know, I think when you sort of accept that, it makes life a little easier. Because, you know, hey, you have this concert friend. Maybe this is just your friend you go to concerts with. And this isn't going to be the friend that you call when you need, you know, advice or you need help.

And that's okay, because not every friend has to be an every friend, you know what I mean? Like, certain friends feel different needs. And I think that as you calibrate your expectations of different people, you're less likely to get hurt by them. And that's been helpful for me, as I've gotten older, you know, relationships change, friendships change. And that's been helpful for me as I've gotten older, you know, relationships change, friendships change. And so if you have an unrealistic expectation of a friendship, you're setting yourself up to get hurt. And so I think, you know, having that conversation with yourself and with, like Steph was saying, you know, just communicating with your friend. And I think

it can be just as simple as like, hey, you haven't been responding to me and that's hurtful. I thought we were friends. What's the deal? And leaving it open-ended. I don't think you need to write a big long tome on how it hurts you and this and that. I think it can just be as simple as like,

hey, I've been trying to meet up and you're ignoring me. What's the deal? And see what he or she says. And if they don't respond, then I think you have to move on and not put yourself in a position to get hurt. Because I think another thing I believe strongly is that people will treat you as good or as bad as you allow them to. And so if you continue to allow this person to take advantage of this one-sided friendship, they're gonna keep doing it. So yeah, standing up for yourself

and protecting yourself one, by communicating, and two, by also calibrating in your head what this friend is and what you want them to be. And I think after you say that, I truly think actions speak louder than words, they could apologize and say, Oh, I'm busy. I would pay more attention to how they communicate with you in the future. Do they continue not to start a conversation and not engage. And then I think it goes back to I know a lot of girls say this when it comes to dating, it's the phrase, if he wanted to, he would.

I think that's actually more applicable to friendships. If a friend like truly wants to have a real authentic relationship, I think it should come naturally. It should never feel like you're the only one that has to force it because that's, that's just not going to be a great friendship for you, in my opinion. But I think it could be a fun friend, friend that you go to concerts with a few times a year, kind of like what Steph and Chris was saying. There's different friends for different parts of your life, but you should never feel like you're the one forcing. things, but there's also different friends' lifestyles allow for different things. I have

several friends who are absolutely the people I call when I need advice but have very, very busy schedules. And so, for instance, if I make time for me as best they can, but it's like, if your busiest friend is also your advice friend, you have to be okay with perhaps the advice being less immediate versus making your advice friend in you have to be okay with perhaps the advice being less immediate versus making your advice friend in that moment a friend you know that has a more relaxed schedule and is attached to their phone. And so there's also the question of is this friend someone you can rely on for like, for instance, I go through months where I am so busy. I have like three jobs. I have this podcast. I have another podcast. I have auditions for like three different areas of the industry.

And then I'm also like, God forbid, trying to meet someone. And then also trying to see my friends and also trying to like relax and like watch a VEEP or whatever, or God forbid, like a show made this century. And I feel like, you know, I feel like talking about seasons is kind of a tangent, but it's like, I feel like I go through phases where I'm super free and available, and suddenly like hitting people up constantly for plans, and I am like the initiator. And then I feel like there are seasons where I am the like receiver or whatever the other word would be. And I feel like maybe your friend right now, like how long has this been going on? Because like if this is just like a season where you're kind of like you're in a more

chill like area of life, and you're kind of like constantly like wanting to have plans and wanting to be out and you have the time to do that, totally okay. But maybe your friends in a phase right now where they just like cannot, like they feel like they can't respond to anything. Maybe it's not indicative of you, it's indicative of their life right now. And I think that's really valid too. Not everything is an interpersonal message of some sort. Sometimes it's just like, especially with me, if I'm not getting back to certain friends or if I'm completely off the grid, it is absolutely not what I want and it's just a function of my schedule.

All right, guys. So for our last question, I actually saved this one for you, Chris, because I've noticed both of you- Chris, how special. On Chris and Nick's Instagram, this might be a random thing to take notice, but I've noticed that you guys seem to have a very close family. Like you seem very close with your parents and it's so sweet to me. And when I came across this question, I was like, Chris would be great to answer this. It's a very short question, but I, it was very different than all the other questions

we've ever gotten. I thought it was really sweet. So this is Gabby from New York and her question is, how do I become more nice to my mom? I've always had arguments with my mom and I don't wanna be mean to her anymore. Any suggestions on improving the relationship? Well, first of all, I think like, you know, the first step to any recovery is acknowledging you have a problem, right?

So admitting that you are mean to your mom is a good first step. I will say like, arguments with your parents, and you ladies can speak more about a relationship between a daughter and a mother, which I think is very different than a son and a mother and a son and a father, or a daughter and a father. I have an older sister. So I've seen all of the different, you know, combinations and a mother daughter relationship is very specific and it is fraught and it is complicated, certainly more than I think a boy's relationship

with his mom or dad. But I think arguing is natural. It's going to happen. You're going to have conflict. You don't have to be mean. So being mean is a choice. And I think the question is, why are you being mean? If you disagree or you're frustrated, but you don't want to be mean. So stop being mean. I think usually the question, right? Like, if you're being mean, it's because if you're in an argument, it's either because you know you're being mean. I think usually the question right like if you're being mean it's because if you're in an argument it's either because you know you're the person you're arguing with is right and that's your way of undercutting the argument by making it personal that's mean or you're mean because you're afraid of actually sharing how you really feel. It's the meanness is usually a deflection. So finding out what you're deflecting from. And I think that will help. And then my other piece of advice is,

I will say for me, you know, Emma, as you said, I'm very close with my family and I'm very close with my parents. And I'm very blessed to have two wonderful parents in my life. And we've had but that doesn't mean we haven't had our fights and we haven't had complicated relationships and stuff. But I think what really changed was when you stopped seeing your parents as your parents and start seeing them as their own

people as individuals. Because it's hard for us. We don't know our parents without us in the world, just by nature of, you know, time and physics. So your parents were once your age, they've gone through what they've gone through and what you've gone through to some extent. And they are people too. They hurt, they have ambitions that they haven't met, they have dreams and desires that they can't pursue probably because of you. But it's, you know, so having that view of, oh, yeah, they're a person with thoughts and dreams and fears and anxieties and hopes. I think that humanizes parents in a way that allows you to approach them differently

and in a healthier way. It's gonna change your relationship, but I think in the long run, as you get older, it will be a healthier relationship. I love that so much. Me too. That was very well said, Chris. Yeah, I mean, I just have to agree with what Chris said. I feel like the older I get specifically to my mom, the more closer I feel to her because the

more I understand her as a woman. And I think it, like, I couldn't imagine, I mean, she had me, I think, when she was a year older than my age now. And I couldn't imagine having a child a year from now and how much sacrifice that she made in order to raise me. Like I couldn't do it myself and I don't think I really learned to respect that until I actually became an adult myself. What about you, Steph? Oh, boy. Well, my mom and I are very close. And in many ways, we're best friends. And in many ways, it's like, you know, that's amazing. But there's we definitely fight. And I feel like there's also like a culture, especially in like Jewish families, I can't speak for other families, but for Jewish families, they're like, the idea of like, we swallow

our feelings, or we you know, we don't we don't say that here. No, they're like the idea of like, we swallow our feelings, or we, you know, we don't we don't say that here. No, that goes out the other everything is said, and it said loud, and it said proud. And in some ways, that's great. And in other ways, it's chaotic. But, you know, I think my mom and I used to fight a lot more in the past. And I feel like, I agree, like, I feel like when we are meanest, it's when we are the most hurt, but it's to the people that we love the most, at least in regards to family, I feel.

And I think... there is just no need for the vitriol ever. And I think... I think it's a really, really beautiful moment that Gabby's going through. I think we've all realized, like, it's so easy to be like, yeah, this person's behavior is fucked up, and this person treats me like shit,

and everyone can do that. But the moment when you realize, wait, like, I don't like how I'm treating this person, whoa. And like, what a milestone in growing up in self-discovery, whatever age you are. It's a real moment of truth when you realize that, oh, could I be a person Taylor Swift would write a song about? I feel like it's really humbling when you realize, oh, my God, if somebody talked about my behavior to someone else, to me, would I agree it was fucked up. I think it's okay. I think

the beautiful reality of family is there is hopefully an unconditional love and always, at the end of the day, a desire to not fight, a desire to be supportive, and a desire to be supportive and a desire to have a really healthy, loving, fulfilling relationship. I think a lot of accepting your parents is accepting that at the end of the day, we were raised as Gen Z millennials, etc., with very different ways of communicating, very different values. There's so much more therapy talk with our generations that like a lot of like boomers just like have no concept of or like interest in understanding. And I think that you can only control how you react. And so if you feel like, hey, I feel like it could be nicer to my mom, okay, so it starts with you.

It starts with us. Not to be so Colleen Hoover about it. Yeah. Also write a note. Write your mom a note. Just write her a note. Tell her how you're feeling. Write what you wrote to us. Maybe a little more flowery and specific, but moms love notes. I love notes. Moms love notes. Have you ever gotten a handwritten, like a handwritten letter or handwritten note? Yeah, it's like someone took the time to like, if you've ever had to send one, you got to get the envelope

and then the stamp and you got to bring it to the thing. And it's like, you know, it the older I get, I'm like, wow, someone wrote this with their hand on a piece of paper. And someone remembered how to write. Yeah. A handwritten note goes a long way. So I think Gabby is it? Gabby, that's my Gabby from New York. Gabby from New York. Gabby from New York.

Wouldn't it be funny if we found out that like it was Gabby's mom who snuck onto her computer and was wrote this on a bag and was like, my daughter's a bitch. Yeah. I'm a real bitch to my mom. Tell her to stop. I need to stop. I like knew that she's a fan of the podcast. Yeah.

It'd be like such a deep, deep con is honestly iconic. Yeah. And it's like, no wonder you're mean to your mom. She's a sociopath. She's crazy. Just kidding. Yeah. You know, you guys, at the end of the day, we're all trying our best, which is a I hate that platitude actually, like, you know, they were trying their best. It's like everyone is trying their best. And if you're not, that's, that's on you. But most people are trying their best or doing the best they can or the most that they are capable of. And I think

a lot of growing up and like realizing your parents are people is realizing that as all people, they have limitations and people's limitations are going to be different and that's okay. And I feel like the more we can accept the flaws in others, the more we can accept the flaws in ourselves. And on that note, what a wildly healing and introspective and dare I say piping hot tea episode of Lattes with Lucy. Chris Caffero, such a joy. Thank you for having me. Such a joy. I'm thrilled. And when do you had great advice? Oh, thanks. When do I get my latte? Because I ordered it like a half an hour ago.

You know, you might have to check Postmates because it's delayed in transit. Son of a gun. As she puts her bowl up to her face. Look at that thing. What is that? It's the size of my head. Well, thank you ladies for having me.

This was so fun. This was so fun. Thank you so much Chris Cafferro. All right, everybody. We want your questions. Head to emeraldaudio.co slash latteswithlucy to submit your voice memo or to write in your question. Or of course, check us out on Instagram at the Royals of Malibu to learn more. All questions can remain anonymous. No topic is too cringe or too embarrassing. Believe me, we've done it. We are here for you to be the Lucy to your Ella, the Ella to your Val, or you know, the Reed to your East, and anytime, anywhere. Come back next Monday for more and be sure to follow the show at The Royals of Malibu, follow Emerald Audio at Emerald Audio Network, and of course,

me, Stephanie Sherry at It's Steph Sherry, and follow Chris Caffero at C Caffero and Emma DeMuth at Emma Bobemma.