The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Austin Rivers on Rudy Gobert’s Image Problem and Playing With KAT and Ant. Plus, Settling the NBA Vs. NFL Players Debate.

Episode Date: May 30, 2024

Russillo begins by examining why it looks like Dallas is having an easier time on offense than Minnesota (0:38). Then, he’s joined by Austin Rivers to learn why players are down on Gobert, discuss what it was like to play with KAT and Ant, and set the record straight on his comments about NBA players' ability to play in the NFL (18:10). Plus, another edition of the Alliance (64:14) with Ceruti and Kyle and Life Advice (66:39)! Can I keep living in my college town after I graduate? Check us out on YouTube for exclusive clips, livestreams, and more at https://www.youtube.com/@RyenRussilloPodcast. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out rg-help.com to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Host: Ryen Russillo Guest: Austin Rivers Producers: Steve Ceruti, Kyle Crichton, and Mike Wargon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On today's episode of the podcast, I'm going to get into what has happened with Dallas and Minnesota and then a little teaser as we look ahead to potentially the finals matchup thing and what the Timberwolves can do. Austin Rivers on this series, what went wrong for Minnesota and his former teammates, Rudy, Kat and Ant. And then we'll dig into that NFL NBA thing that caused a bit of an uproar. And we've got life advice for young guys.

It's Ryan Rosilla podcast presented by FanDuel. The road to the NBA final starts now and FanDuel is the best place to get in on the action. Right now you can check out the new and improved QuickBets, which are back and better than ever for the NBA playoffs and FanDuel. Find what you're looking for faster and easier with more props right at your fingertips. You can check out live bets like 3-minute markets and exclusive live bets like quarter-player props, player assist combos, and more.

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Dallas is up 3-1 against Minnesota Minnesota by the way for game 5 a four and a half point favorite as of this taping tonight on FanDuel. I Guess I like Minnesota tonight That was pretty passionate It's because I like Minnesota before the series and here we are. Um, some lessons have been gathered with the way this has played out the best player theory, which I'm telling you, coaches and GMs most of the time it was Billy, Hey, we have the better guy.

Our guy, our best guys better than their best guy. And I that i had hoped i think a lot of people don't get the gap between luca and it. What is closer than the way this is played out from the series and had a better game in game four. I think it one point in game four it was eighty seven eighty six. at one point in game four, it was 87, 86. And the fan dual live line was Dallas plus a point and a half. It's funny because I was watching and the way these games have closed out and the gap between the closing power of Luca, uh, versus the closing power van. I'm like, I feel like you kind of have to take Dallas with the way these games have gone.

But maybe Minnesota was due to finally get one of these, uh, despite having the lead in the last five minutes of all three of the previous losses and so look I would have been wrong on that one and Luca and Kyrie shooting big reason why we actually have a game five So Kyrie was 6 to 18 Luca was 7 to 21 PJ Washington was 3 to 13 So maybe that's all there is to this and there's not anything that Minnesota necessarily changed or solved because I'll tell you throughout game four Even with those guys shooting as poorly as they were in Minnesota in the cap part of it where we finally saw him hitting some shots from deep

There's just this general feeling I have where there's just no trust left with Minnesota and You know, it's hard to after the four games. I don't know why anybody, unless you feel like they've learned their lessons and now they've aged and they've put on all this man muscle and they're ready to go to try to attempt to get this thing to even a game six or a game seven and make us all share in some weird moments of like, has Minnesota figured this out in the series or have they at least toned down their mistakes? But that's the problem is or have they at least toned down their mistakes? But that's the problem is I didn't think they toned down

their mistakes at all in game four. So Kat finally makes some shots, nine to 13 overall, four or five on threes. He was three to 22 on threes from games one through three. If you look at Minnesota's defense, which we thought was gonna be one of the main reasons they could pull the series out if you picked them, their defensive rating against Dallas was 116 and it's four games, but that's a really high number for who Minnesota has

been defensively. Against Denver, they were 106. They're 10 points worse defensively in this series than they were against Denver. Even they were better defensively against Phoenix at a 109 per 100 possessions. So if you look at their 116 number, that's eight points worse than where they were leading the league at 108.4 points, which is actually two points better than number two, Boston, who was again, second defensive rating overall.

So the 116 number against Dallas, if you equate it to where it'd be in the regular season, that'd be 23rd in the league, that's Portland's defense. And that's who Minnesota has been defensively against Dallas here. So even with ants 29, 10 and nine in game four, I just never felt great about them because the defense isn't showing up enough and I've watched Minnesota blow leads in the final five minutes of the first three games, whether it was Ant being tired in game one, where he just maybe, I don't know, I just don't think he should be tired at 22 years old. I know he's chasing Kyrie and it's funny because like the Kyrie defense and him

playing point guard, which I think was another part of it, because I think they're trying to protect Conley here a little bit with his lingering injuries, but whenever we watch a game and you think, wait, isn't my favorite player who's the best offensive player, isn't he a good defensive player, isn't he supposed to play like the best other offensive player on the regular season? It doesn't happen a lot. Just put them on somebody easier to try to pace them, whether it's that game or

over the course of an entire season. But in this case with Ann at 22, it's like you can't do all of those things and he just couldn't. Standing in the corner exhausted, we talked about his paint touch attempts in the second half of game one, he had only one. So there's a reluctance there because of the crowds, but sometimes it's like, man, it's a star. Sometimes you're burdened with having to actually force the issue and be a little bit more selfish, although I think his playmaking has still been pretty good.

Not so much on the reads, but on the drives and then looking for somebody to kick it out to. So that's where they are defensively, which is massively disappointing. And the trust part of this, and then my easy hard theory, I always look at when I'm watching a game, I'm going to go, okay, I don't care what the score is. Okay. It's tied in the third quarter. What's been easy, what's been hard. And I'm watching a game, I'm going to go, okay, I don't care what the score is. Okay. It's tied in the third quarter. What's been easy.

What's been hard. And I'm consistently feeling like Dallas is just easier. Their time is a lot easier than Minnesota trying to figure all these things out on the fly. Um, the trust part of it, you know, the ant turnovers, he's had 11 in the last two games, the turnover in game two, where he throws it out of bounds, granted the spacing is bad, go bears right at the rim. And then he has Nas and Kyle Anderson, both like on top of each other as if they're in I

formation on a football field in the corner and Then ants late to kind of recognize it, but that's not really on the spacing You just don't expect and I know people talk about Conley should have been back in the game You don't expect your best player and somebody like and to just throw the ball out of bounds He had the other play in the inbounds where he lost it, where that was the inadvertent whistle in game four. He also has a really bad habit of when he's pissed about not getting a foul, where he thinks he's supposed to get a foul every single drive.

And I don't think he gets a friendly whistle throughout the regular season in comparison to other stars in the league. Cat's probably even worse with the N1 demands, but then Ant will just foul somebody on the other end out of frustration on a foul that's not even really impacting the offense. It's just, I'm mad and I'm going to foul you or cattle just be like, Hey, I'm going to foul you because I don't know, cause I'm just gonna

McDaniels is good for two stupid fouls, but with him, I'm actually willing to allow it a little bit more because he is constantly reaching and trying to impede the ball handler somewhat. But the problem is he's too slight and he ends up going for a ride on Luca's back every time they run that high pick and roll. And then Lucas just can do whatever he wants to them because there's no real physical presence there

other than his length. That leads us to the Rudy problem. All right, so this series is not on Rudy. It just, it isn't. You know where I stand with it. Never gonna like the picks in the trade and the cost and who are you bidding against and ultimately the motivating factors behind that trade.

But you can make an argument that them being in the Western Conference Finals with a team that's, you know, I don't know how young it is. Maybe it's just because they're so focused on the amp part of it. It's not like everybody's really young. It's not like Oklahoma City young, but it's still new, right? It's playoff young, if you'll allow me that phrase that I just made up. But even with my concerns about Rudy and the limitations that he brings to you offensively and all that, when I watch this series play out and there's times where I get a little excited to be like, ooh, Rudy's out, let's see if something opens up here on offense.

I just don't really think, I think you're being incredibly unfair to him if you're going to pin this series on him because it's been Kat and his shooting and it's been ant not really being the guy that we saw in Phoenix and in the first half of that Denver series, because that's what we all thought we were getting and we haven't gotten that guy. So when I watched Rudy offensively, he had some big buckets in game four. He had some nice scoring opportunities in game two. I'd rather he not ever have 10 shot attempts in the playoff game, but that's

what happened in game two, because sometimes that's just the way the help moves on the other drives and he's the best option, but he's only the best option with the ball when he already has decided what he's going to do once he actually catches the ball, which can be its own adventure. I know some people have been asking that he gets more lobs or whatever. And I'd be like, have you watched him play enough? Like he's just not a great bet on the catch. And he's even a worse bet on the catch when he actually has to think about what he's going to do with the ball.

If he doesn't have to think about anything, that's when you get the dunks, when literally he's enormous and he's standing right there anyway. So it shouldn't be that hard. But when he came out of the game in game four at the end of the third quarter, watch for this in game five. Dallas' perimeter players ramp up. I can't wait to talk to Austin Rivers about this. Jayden Hardy was like, let's go. Kyrie attacked immediately. There's not in that stretch that I'm talking about

specifically, but there's been some Luca times where you're just like, okay, cool. Like you're gonna take them out. We are now, so Rudy being there is doing something that maybe doesn't show up in the numbers. Although some of the numbers that I think are pro Rudy arguments, I'm like, okay, these are a little absurd because I don't think it's necessarily that kind of impact. And I think the biggest issue with Rudy overall of this is that you kind of need some kind of stretch five at some point, or that's what we all want out of our five,

which is asking a lot like, Hey, can somebody be defensive player of the year? And then also threaten you from three. Like, well, that's why we're all out of our five, which is asking a lot, like, Hey, can somebody be defensive player of the year and then also threaten you from the three? Like, well, that's why we're all excited about Wimbanyama and what he could eventually become. But when you watch that stretch, I think it's again, at the close of the third quarter, there's a completely different level of attack and aggressiveness. Like it's a substitute teacher in all right. And we're gonna, we're to start just screwing around here. And it was effective, although on the point differential part of it, I think

it was only a point in Dallas's favor during that last stretch. So that's where the stats can go like, Oh, they actually didn't lose anything with him being out during that stretch. It's like, yeah, but the game was being played out differently. And if everybody's on the same page and you were taking out for seven minutes, would it actually turn into a free for all? So like whatever you think you'd be gaining advantage wise for having a spacing big and Rudy not being in, if you wanted to go just Nas or cat or the both

of them who can stretch offensively is that advantage outweigh what I think would be a long-term disadvantage on some of those drives, even if it looks like they're helpless on these pick and roll coverages, which has way more to do with just how special Luca is at his size and the late finds that we've talked about. His pass in the second quarter, I think it was, where he goes right and skips it one-handed. It doesn't skip pass. It's a straight line pass, but I guess skip in the sense that it's going cross court on the half court setup.

Um, it, it was such an absurd pass right into the shooter's pocket. And that's all set up because he already kind of knew where the help was going to be. And Lucas just, sometimes you're dealing with somebody that special and that's what Minnesota is dealing with right now. Um, the problem overall though for Rudy is that, yeah, when everyone's screaming about him being defensive player of the year and all NBA stuff with him, you're like, all right, well, the weird part of this is how can somebody who's defensive player of the year be somebody that Luca wants to switch into to hit the game winning shot in game two?

Right? I think we all, I think people that are really into basketball understand, well, okay, it's not that simple. That's unfair to Rudy. But it is a weird talking point. You're like, wait, so the guy who's better than everybody at this part of the game

is the guy Luca wants defending him, but that's just a body thing. That's a body mismatch. And in that case, for anyone as big as Rudy coming all the way out to try to defend Luca in that spot, you're just going to lose. You're going to lose or you have to hope for a miss or I guess the counter argument would be get Luca to at least get off of the three point line and invite him to take a two.

So you're not losing the game on a made three. And it's like, okay. I mean, a lot of this stuff is really easy to say after the fact. So that's the Rudy part of this. The biggest takeaway though, overall through the four games that Minnesota's played, I don't think they're a dumb team, but I think they've played like a dumb team. I don't think they're, if they were just dumb, I don't think they'd even be here.

All right. But there's just too many plays where you're like, what the fuck are you guys doing? On top of going against, and I thought Bill on Sunday said it really well, it's like Rivera with the Yankees. If you don't beat them through the first seven or eight innings, you're going to lose every game.

And that's what Luca and the Kyrie moments feel like. Let's look at some of the Dallas numbers here, run through this and finish up. Because as we look ahead to Dallas, Dallas and Boston, where, you know, I don't want to get too ahead of myself, but I think I'd be a little surprised in the Mavs lost four straight is the first team to ever blow a three lead. Uh, Dallas's first game with Gafferty PJ in the lineup, February 10th. So let's look at the season in some segments here since February 10th, uh, during the regular season Dallas went 21 and nine. That was the fourth best record in the NBA behind Boston, Golden

State, who may say to themselves, maybe we can just run this back. Look how good we were after that point in February. And then Oklahoma city was ahead of them as well, record wise. Um, so February 10th on 30 games, the offense for Dallas was 7th, the defense was 8th and the rebounding rate was 14th. But the last 15 games Dallas went 12 and 3, best record in the NBA. Their offense though dropped pretty dramatically during that stretch to 21st, but their defense finished up at first.

And if you were looking at Dallas going, okay, that offensive number is a lot lower than I thought it would be, but that's probably not who they're going to be. But that defensive number is terrific. Are they gonna keep that up? Well, they've kept up the defensive part of it. And clearly the offensive thing

was just kind of a fluke to close the season. Rebounding rate though, again, middle of the pack at 14. If you want to just throw in the pre all-star break games here, 55 games, they were 32 and 23, 11th on offense, 19th on defense, and 28th and rebounding rate. So credit to them, trade deadline, things turned around. They improved the rebounding part of it. The playoff numbers though are kind of interesting. They've been the seventh best offense.

They've been the eighth best defense. The rebounding rate is six out of 16 teams. The net rating is fifth at plus 2.9%. So do these numbers maybe tell us anything? Because there were some Denver numbers you could point to going, wait, is this telling us a story that says that this team might be more susceptible than we think? Much like the Minnesota numbers during the regular season where we look at the clutch

offense and go, okay, what are my eyes telling me? I don't like this. I don't know if this offense can get enough buckets in a close game to get through three rounds in the playoffs and make it to the NBA finals. I think most of us all felt that. And yet those numbers clearly are telling us that the eyes were not lying to us and we see those same struggles right now. But as we look ahead to the finals and closing, you're like, shouldn't Dallas's numbers be a little bit better there? When you compare that net rating for Dallas, again,

the playoff sampling of this series can go one way or the other, but Dallas is winning the close ones against Minnesota, winning the close ones against Oklahoma city for the most part. Um, if you compare that to Boston's net rating, which is the best in the NBA throughout the playoffs, it's, it's almost 11. It's a plus 11 plus 10.8. So we're talking about eight points better from Boston. So I think what we actually have learned is that it's two things.

One is who cares about the net rating in trying to figure out a Boston Dallas match. It doesn't mean anything. Cause the reality is the Clippers, even without Kawhi are probably better than any team that Boston has beaten throughout their run through the East. And ultimately all of these numbers that I've gone through, where you're like, wait, wouldn't that one be better? Like the record's pretty good, but that number is kind of low. That number seems sort of average. How did that happen? But yet the record is still not only good, but in some spots great. When you look at the last 15, which was a bottom third offense.

It just keeps coming back to Luca. It's the Luca lesson. It's like that great closer. It's like a team that's just like, yeah, you know what? They haven't scored a ton of runs and run different roles and all that great, but guess what? They've got like three guys in the bullpen

that are terrific. So they're winning more of those games. And Luca's like the setup guy and the closer for Dallas. With FanDuel, it's never too late to get in on the action. This NBA playoffs, because right now, new customers get 150 bucks in bonus bets with any winning $5 bet. That's $150 to use on same game parlies, live bets,

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Carolina. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. First online real money wager, only $10 deposit required. Bonus bets are non-retrawable and expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply, see terms at sportsbook.fandual.com. Fired up to talk to somebody about wrapping up the Western Conference Finals, maybe a look ahead to the NBA Finals.

Austin Rivers joins us now from the Ringer. He's on the YouTube page for NBA coverage and also with Pasha on off-cards podcast. What's up, man? Good to see you. How are you doing, bro? What's up? I'm good. Thank you for having me. I'm good. Okay. You have an incredible perspective, obviously, being with Minnesota last year and then Denver prior to that.

So I know you've covered a lot of that stuff already past that series, but you know, I really liked Minnesota's chances in the Western Conference finals. What have you seen that has led to a 3-1 advantage for Dallas? Yeah, I did not see the series going this way. With all the momentum that Minnesota had, especially coming off of a win versus Denver, you would think the confidence at that point, just with the snowball effect, I just thought that team's momentum was so strong.

But Kyrie and Luca have simply picked them apart in the pick and roll. Just from an offensive standpoint, I haven't seen the same aggression from Ant the first few games when they got behind. And then to add to that, Carl's been inconsistent with the exception, obviously, of last game, second half of last game, where he really came alive. So you have these different aspects of the first couple of games, it looked really weird. Ant's energy was really down. He just looked gassed.

He was tired as hell. And then offensively, that translated. Just so you could see in the shots that he was shooting, there are a lot of difficult shots. Wasn't getting to the basket, wasn't getting to the line as much. Now you have Carl settling. I forgot what the number was. It said to the first three games, his three point. Three and 22. Yeah. So, you know, he was settling, you know, so you have all these different factors. And then the simple matter of Rudy and some of these guys that they have are really great defenders. But the team that they're going against, it's all matchup, right? And I might get slack for saying this, but if Denver beats Minnesota, I don't think Dallas

is winning this series. It's all match up for me. And I think Rudy does a lot of different things, but they have two guys that are just ISO killers. And that's Luca and Kyrie. And they're able to be very effective in the pick and roll over someone like Rudy, who usually has a dominant defensive series or what we've seen in the past. He's getting on switches and they're just able to get by him and create offense. And you have the emergence of PJ Washington, some of these other guys. It just seems like the tables have turned. I just didn't see this coming.

I thought Minnesota was a bigger team, better defensive team, and I thought they were deeper. If you look at their bench and we haven't really got production from Nikkei Alexander. We haven't got production from a lot of these guys who had these great series before. So you have all these little factors adding up to where now we find ourselves down 3-1. You know, we'll see what happens now, but the series is most likely probably over.

Rudy's facing a ton of criticism here, but, and anybody's ever listened to the pod knows I'm not like his number one fan, but I think I am calm enough to like respect what he brings to the game every night. And I made the point in the open, it's like, okay, sometimes I'll, I'll be tempted to go wonder if they want to move Rudy out and get a little bit more spacing. But then when you see what Dallas like Dallas mouse to start to water, and you saw that stretch at the end of the third quarter where they're like, okay, fine. You actually want to do this.

We are in attack mode the entire time. So like you were teammates with him and last year there was, there was all sorts of ups and downs and he's been even better this year after I'd say kind of a disappointing first year. Like what's it like? Like what is he like knowing that it seems like the criticism is even more excessive than probably what it's deserving of?

Yeah, you know, it's tough, man. I try to explain this to people. Rudy's defensive accolades and success comes from the impact he has overall on defense, right? So it's like when you look at the team defensive numbers, you see there at the top, people don't count the stats that don't count or don't show up on a stat sheet. The shots altered by him.

How many shots last game did Kyrie go to the basket and have to flip up a left-hand tough floater or shot and it came off the glass or it came off the rim because he had to shoot some ridiculous layup. And again, he hits some of those Kyrie does, but a lot of these shots are altered. And then the fact is when guys drive in the paint, they're looking for Rudy. You feel Rudy even if Rudy's not even near you. He has an impact on defense altering shots and just with his presence alone, not to mention

the defensive communication he has as the quarterback behind you because the big is always a quarterback on defense they see everything everything's in front of them and Rudy's always been notoriously in my opinion just from guys that I've played with one of the better defensive bigs in terms of communication always harping on different things holding guys accountable to being in the right spots which is why you've seen that transition of Minnesota defense going from what it was to being a top tier defense in the league now. And I think that's why he gets these awards is because he's so effective at that. And then you add the block shots that he does get and all the other things.

The issue that people have with Rudy is his mistakes or the things he's not good at. They're so loud, Ryan. Like he's just like, he's a little goofy. If his footwork in terms of guarding a guard is actually pretty solid. If you're asking, you know, to run them off the three and get to the basket, but is he good at stopping on a dime? I mean, how much slack did he get for the, the one-on-one defense versus Luca? It's like how many bigs are going to go out there and guard him? I saw Nemhart cook Al Horford three times in a row in that series. We didn't say anything.

So Luca, who's a 10 times better the player than Nemhart, can't cook Rudy on a one on one. I mean, there's no big in the league that's stopping him from getting that three off. By the way, he took away the left. Everyone knows Luca likes going left and stepping back. He had to do three counter moves before he went to the right, stopped on a dime and shot that top three. He just made it. That's what Luca does. You know, Rudy has those plays like that. When people are like, how has he won four? You know, because he's won so many.

It'd be one thing if he won one award, right? I don't think anybody would be even having a problem with Rudy. The fact that he's won four defensive player of the years, and then we see the problem where they have to hide him sometimes on defense. And we're like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, we have to hide the defensive player of the year? That doesn't make sense. And then we see the problem where they have to hide him sometimes on defense. And we're like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, we have to hide the defensive player of the year? That doesn't make sense. And then you add the fact to it that it, which doesn't help his case, he didn't guard Yocage that well.

Uh, and they had to put Carl on him for most of the, uh, the series. Carl guard them just as good as well as he. And that's, that's an issue because we're like, there's only so many bigs you have to guard Rudy. There's like two offensive bigs in the NBA. You got Joel and you got, and you got the other ones on your team, Carl. So you got Joel in the terms of post-presidents, Joel and Nicola. You got two guys.

So like you got- I'd throw AD in there. I'd throw AD in there. What do you think? AD. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Fair, fair, fair. Anthony Davis.

So we got like three, four, if we're missing somebody else, bigs in the league that you have to like suit up for. A guard has to suit up every single night and guard the best player. I've had this argument with Rudy many times. I feel like the guard position is the most underrated position in defense and we never get that award ever or considered for it.

For whatever reason, considering like 80% of the points that come on a nightly basis usually are from guards in the NBA. So you would think the guys guarding them might be up for an award once in a while. But that's just usually not the case. So I think that's the things that people have against Rudy right now, especially right now. It's like, bro, no one's asking you to guard Nicola, but there's no way Carl should guard him better than you.

And then we're here, we find our stuff in the conference finals and we have to like find ways to strategically like not hide you, but like put you in positions to succeed where like a four time defensive player of the year, you're supposed to just roll out there and tell them to go dominate, right? So that's like Perkins and all these guys who are coming out saying this stuff about him. It's gotten a lot. It's gotten, you know, to the point where it's very toxic that we're forgetting all the things that Rudy does do well.

It's just not as loud. It's not as fun to watch. It's not things that show up on a stat sheet. So it's tough, man. I feel like the American players have been on one for like two years, where the American players are going, and this is coming from somebody who's not exactly like a Rudy defender or more so maybe the transaction, but there's parts of it where I completely respect it.

And I'm telling anybody that watches it, like watch the next time Rudy's out. And depending on what the Minnesota lineup is, if they want to go with their small version where Minnesota is still big in their small lineup, but watch, watch how quickly Kyrie attacks off the catch. Watch Jayden Hardy if he's in there. He had the two plays. So even I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, watch, watch how quickly Kyrie attacks off the catch. Watch Jayden Hardy if he's in there. He had the two plays. So even I'm guilty of it a little bit going like, I wonder what it would look

like maybe not having Rudy pinning himself to the rim and then you can't space them out. You know, maybe it's more about him being an old school defensive center where there's no stretch ability on offense. And that means Gafford and when lively is healthy, they're always at the rim. Like maybe that's more of the downside to it. So like, I'm, I'm not saying that now I'm trying to like zag on everyone's criticism of him. The shot by Luca, you're absolutely right. There's not at center. Like I love Wembe. I think Luca turns him eventually on the third move if he wants to. I mean,

granted, Wemby seems to be able to reach beyond anything we've ever seen before. But that's, that's an impossible spot for a big seven plus footer against a guy like Luca, who's offensively as good as anyone in the league. So it feels very, I don't know what it is. I guess I didn't understand that we had this many ex players that are Patriots, or current players that are Patriots, because it feels like a lot of your NBA peers

really hate the international guys, and that's part of it with Rudy as well. Yeah, there's something about Rudy that bothers players. I don't know what that is either. It's there though. I mean, his respect, I mean, you even saw it with Luca, when Luca just spazzed on him for hitting that shot. That felt like it was more than just, you know,

and that's a foreign player and a foreign player. It just, there's something there with Rudy. A lot of it stems from his success. This is a guy who's the first bout Hall of Famer. And whether people like to hear that or not, it's just what it is. When you went for defensive players of the years, it's just no question, man.

He's like in the likes of like, I don't even know. He's like with Matumbo and Ben Wallace. I don't even know who's the people who won that award, but it's like only a few guys. He's going. So that's just what people have to wrap their heads around. I think that in people's brains and then they turn on the TV and see this guy get cooked on a one-on-one or they see Nicole again having 40, 10, and 12. And they're like, that's not right.

That they're like, that doesn't look good. That someone explained to me why this guy keeps winning this award. And you have Draymond and you have all these guys just after him. You know what I mean? So it doesn't help. He's in an American league with American players saying this. Then he has Nicole doing this thing. Then he goes to the next series and he has Luca hitting the game winner on him.

And then they're getting crushed. They're down three, one. They're scoring in any way possible that they want. The pick and roll has been disastrous. Their defensive coverage and the pick and roll has been horrendous. What are they doing wrong? What are they doing wrong? Well, for one, I don't buy into Dallas' shooting other than those two. We know what they get with the lob threat. They have been trying to take away this three. If Josh Green hits a damn three, then so be it. I'm not saying leave them open,

but you can't take away the basket. They keep trying to like play both. All Luca's doing, and Luca's better than anybody. I'm dumbing this down as if this is this simple, but the dude is the most, other than Nicole, he's the smartest basketball player in the NBA. You get the LeBron in there too. The way he picks people apart in the pick and roll, you can't teach it. He comes off and he's not even looking at the roller. He is looking at that weak side defender, just patiently waiting, just messing with him with his eyes. And he'll look at the basket like he's throwing that lob

and he throws it to the corner. And they're so worried about the corner three. PJ Washington's been a problem. That's been the main issues. PJ Washington's hitting that shot right now. So now they're trying to adjust, run out to the corner. This guy's getting lobbed after lobbing. How many pick and roll points do they get a game in

with Luca and Gafford, or Luca and Lively, or Kyrie and Gafford, and Kyrie and Lively, or Kyrie or Luca hitting it to the corner. So right now they need to figure out who they're willing to give up a shot. Sometimes it comes down to that. You got to look at the floor and say, okay, we got Josh Green on here. We got Derek Jones, who is a guy who wants a straight line drive.

He can hit a three. That's not a guy that's going to hit seven threes in a game. So these are guys that like you have to live and die with with some of these shots. You cannot just keep giving them lob after lob after lob after lob. Those dunks will converge a defense and then now we're getting wide open threes. I would rather protect the basket and run out and get a contest. And if these guys hit a three over contest, then so be it. But they're getting picked apart in the pick and roll right now.

This is a weak side issue. So like this is something that Minnesota just has to clean up. It's a weak side defense. They'd be getting killed all series long And Luca it's not the person to be having weak side problems with I mean, that's just what he does is pick people apart so You know it you saw a little bit a better last game, especially in the second half I don't know what clicked for them Minnesota personally. You saw them start to take that away a little bit, but

You can't let Luca cook, Kyrie cook, and then also get solid play from Derek Jones. You can't give everybody everything. Somebody has to be taken away here. So I don't know. Okay. So on the other side defensively, and I know the defensive numbers are closed. I brought this stuff up in the Open 2 where Dallas closes with the best defense in the NBA the last 15. You look at the lively development and gaffer, but look through these series, the defense that Derek Jones has played on perimeter players, that PJ Washington looked like SGA was the primary assignment and SGA was really hard for him even though he was fantastic in that series and he wasn't really being supported I think consistently enough from his number two, whoever that was supposed to be that night.

There's just a lot that's going on here defensively with Dallas, I'll tell you really good numbers. But Lucas is the low man and he also can take those possessions off and save his energy to close. I know, look, those guys didn't shoot it well in game four. That's probably not going to happen in four straight games. Is there something more there where, you know, hunting is its own topic. And I was talking to somebody about this the other day, and it was funny because it's like in football, if you see a bad matchup, not that I'm in a hurry

to do NFL, NBA coverage with you right now, maybe we'll save it for the end. But if you have a corner that you think is like, oh, he's the fifth corner, because like their top, the top guys hurt two guys went down during the game. So let's just throw the ball at him. Well, a lot still has to go right for you to take advantage of that mismatch that you think you have in a football game. And in the NBA, when you say, okay, let's hunt Kyrie or let's

hunt Luca. Sometimes you'll see that more at the end of a game. Yeah, but usually does. Yeah, but it's still like easier said than done. And I was talking to this coach about it. It's like, you can't just like throw away everything you're doing and all of your system to go, let's just hunt that guy. So having said all of that, I still feel like there's more opportunities to maybe try to bring Luca up to get him in the play, to have him expend more energy. I mean, Kyrie's help defense

and his decisions is probably the best defense I think I've seen him play in like six years. But do you think that there's more opportunities for the perimeter players, specifically Ant with some of that stuff? Absolutely. And again, like you said, it is hard to just pick on someone and find that matchup, right? It's very difficult to just be like, hey, let's grab Luca up here. Luca ain't coming up. By the time you try to call him up, he's going to send somebody else up and then he'll take the low guy. They'll just replace by design. Luca's being picked on his entire life on defense. By now, he probably figured out on how to hide and how not to be a guy who's up there on an island.

So, I mean, that's just like an end of the game scenario where you can maybe find those matchups. And also it's a problem, Ryan, you don't want to be the whole game trying to find one-on-one matchups because it can mess up your whole offense. Now we're not getting good offense, we're just trying to find one-on-one matchups and that's not going to work throughout a game.

So, you know, Dallas has done a good job. Yes, hiding Luca, Kyrie, trying to save their energy. Kyrie's actually been pretty damn good on defense, to be completely honest. He's got great hands. And like you said, PJ's been a guy I never even knew as a defender who's played this well at defense. I knew Derek Jones could,

because he showed that in Miami. But he's now really shown the level of a player that he can be as just like a, I wouldn't call him a three in D, I don't know if it's a Duncan D. I don't know what is it, a straight line and D. He's going to come up with his own like new player that people are going to try to find.

But they have guys who are very capable of guarding. Cleaver has been a huge, now that they have him back, he's a guy that can guard one through five, really. He's a good guy that could switch. They have multiple guys who can, Gatford's done a great job chasing guards around on switches. So they could switch one through five, really. He's a good guy that could switch. They have multiple guys who can get, Gatford's done a great job chasing guards around on switches. So they could switch one through five with a lot of those lineups. And to dumb this down, man, like, I think this is just a good example of just their two best players are just going to be like, yo, there's not a duo better than us.

We're going to go into each game and we're just going to figure it out and win the game. It's like a pickup game. It's like if we're playing pickup on the street and Kyrie and Luca had their team, it's just like that team might win. They're just going to go win the game. They figure it out. It's like no one had Dallas going this far. No one had them beating Minnesota or maybe some people did, but a lot of people did not have them beating Minnesota, especially not this way, up 3-1 when they had, obviously

they're not going to shoot like they did last game, three games or else it's not going to happen. So it's just like, it's really hard for Minnesota, especially a young team, right? To consistently have good offense versus a team like Dallas when you're talking about picking on someone the right way. You don't want Ant to fall into that trap. We don't need him doing anymore one-on-one. You need him playmaking. You need Nikhil. You need Jada McDaniels. You need some of these guys that step up in scoring. They need fluidity in their offense. So even though

Dallas has a couple of guys who weren't one-on-one defenders, it hasn't really worked in Minnesota's favor so far in terms of them being able to exploit Luca at all. They need to find ways to get him more involved on defense. They just do. But so far, he hasn't really being able to exploit Luca at all. They need to find ways to get him more involved on defense. They just do. But so far he hasn't really been able to do anything. He's just been sitting in that low man spot most of the game. Okay, I wanna try to get like the real perspective on this

because these are your teammates. And I find Kat incredibly frustrating. There are a couple of plays where I find Kat incredibly frustrating. There are a couple plays where, as Austin chuckles a bit, I don't know if he's your boy or not, maybe he was. That's my guy. That's my guy.

All right, all right. So he's your guy. I totally understand. I know where this is headed. Trust me. Okay. What happens when he just decides to reach in 50 feet away from the basket?

It's the most frustrating thing in the world. And he wants an and one because the floor hit him. The pass with two and a half seconds left to Rudy, there's 2.5 in the shot clock and he threw it into Rudy to create. And there's just a lot of plays. This team, I don't think is a dumb team because they wouldn't have been this good this year if they were a dumb team. But to see them close the way they have,

and it's not all on can't, I mean, I've got tat, and has had numerous plays where I'm like, what the hell's happening to you right now? What? Yeah, that week's ID for the clip the other day was ridiculous when PJ got to corner three and Ant was just like,

he like traded places with someone. He's just like walking around and they swing swing and PJ Washington gets a wide open three and tries, they just have that. Go ahead, finish your stuff. What happens in a timeout after like one of those cat moments with Finch and all of you in the huddle? What are those moments like? It usually is someone like, yeah, it usually is.

It's usually a Kyle Anderson or someone like that. If we're going to talk about last year, my experiences, it'd be myself or Kyle Anderson or Fin like that. If we're going to talk about last year, my experiences, it'd be myself or Kyle Anderson or Finchi yelling at somebody. And I don't say that in a mean way, but just trying to hold somebody accountable because they do have these lapses. Carl is self-inflicted and I love Carl. I love that he had a big bounce back game yesterday after the internet was just trolling

him the past week for him to come back and have a second half 20 points. He honestly won them the game. Credit to Carl. But Carl has defensive lapses and they're not like 10 seconds lapses. It's one second. This guy will play great defense for a whole possession, be in the right place, slide his feet, talk on defense, help side, and then reach in the last second or try to the offensive foul or a pump baked an elbow PJ in the face.

Like he just does these little plays. And then you wonder why, like at the end of the game, he's got five fouls or even throughout a game he's in foul trouble and he has no rhythm. So now he's out there forcing threes instead of getting to the basket. We always talk about why Carl doesn't go to the basket as much. Half the time he's in foul trouble. He's scared to drive in there and get a charge or get an offensive foul. The little tic-tac fouls with him, I can't diagnose why that is. No one has that answer. I don't know why because he's a high IQ

basketball player. He's been playing in the NBA. He's not a rookie. This guy's a vet at this point. He's been in the league, what, eight, nine years, seven, eight years? He's played enough basketball at this point to know not to reach in or do the tiki-tac fouls. And yet we continually see that from him. That's a bad habit that just needs to be broken. How that is, I don't know. He knows it's harmful to his team. He knows not to do it because you could see when he does it, he'll do that face he makes, or he'll look at the rest and be like, how? And everyone behind him is just like, Carl, you know what I mean? So like, he knows better. I don't know how to diagnose that.

That is a self-inflicted bad habit that Carl has that just needs to be undone because he's actually a pretty damn solid defender, especially with bigs. People, he showed that last series with Nicola. And even regarding Nicola, how many times did he reach in last second and give Nicola a foul and you're like, Carl, you played great defense. If he hits the shot, he hits the shot. You don't gotta don't don't bail him out. Um, yeah.

And it's, it's, uh, I think there's a different level and I've told this before and I, I say this with respect because I know he's in the conference finals, which is, listen, one way from the finals and I know he has a lot in his shoulders. I think there's a different level of stamina Ant can reach. I think there's a different level of stamina. And we have those comparisons to Mike and Kobe and some of these guys that we've already thrown at Ant.

Those are some heavy names. The one thing we knew about those two guys is they did not get tired consistently. Their stamina was at all time high, whether that's mental toughness, whether it's because those two lived in the gym. I don't, you know, we'd have to interview Mike to get those answers or maybe Tim Grover and have those answers from anybody. But there's a different level of stamina when I see too many times and on defense have these

plays where he like stands up or he just won't be involved. There was a couple plays last game that blew my mind right. They called Ant up to get on the switch. They wanted Ant up and Ant's supposed to be a really good defender and he is because I've seen him lock up guys when he wants to. Jayden Hardy just drove by him a couple times with a layup. They were calling, they were looking for Ant on switches and I had to sit back in my seat like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hayden Hardy just drove by him a couple of times with a layup. They were looking for Ant on switches and I had to sit back in my seat like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

There's no way they're calling Ant up for a pick and roll switch. He's one of the best defenders in the league on the ball. They knew he was tired and gassed and trying to hide and they called him up. So I saw him tired in game one. I saw him still tired in game two. His stamina just needs to, it has to reach a different level for them to have that success. It just has to happen. He gets too tired, especially in the fourth. You just see it. There's no way they should ever be picking on defense. It should never happen. He's too good of a defender. And I saw that multiple times last game and we're not even talking about Kyrie and Luka

We're talking about like their fourth guard like trying to find an on a switch to go by him. I can't happen okay, knowing that Dallas, you know likely to pull through this and Having to take on the Clippers who from a depth standpoint, it's still not an easy out without Kawhi. We could talk about the track records of their better players in the playoffs where it doesn't necessarily scare you. And then the Oklahoma City series that, you know, it's still who knows what would have happened in game seven

if PJ isn't fouled in the corner. And look, I thought it was the right call. So then you have Minnesota, which is a completely different challenge. Like they've played three, I think different kinds of teams where you look at Boston, where they probably would have had an easy time if everybody was still healthy and yet they cruise through the East. They haven't really been challenged. You know, thinking back to like different playoff matchups and this becomes now

really more a discussion of potentially Dallas and Boston and where you like the matches where you don't like the matchups. But is there anything to be said of like the battle testing of the last month and a half of the scars that you've put on yourself to get to the finals where one team has had far greater challenges than the other team coming from the East? I do. I would say I don't if there was a little bit of a challenge with Boston, but they have just steamrolled right through the Eastern Conference. Every team that they played, the best player in the opposite team has gotten hurt or gone down with an injury of some sort, whether it was later in the series or in the series, regardless of which. It's been 4-0, 4-1, 4-1,

and now they're sitting there in the finals. The advantage that they have, obviously, is legs. They're going to have their legs, they're going to have their rest. Their team is fully healthy, with the exception of Porzingis, who, my God, what a situation for him to be in. He's hurt, and they're not even rushing him to get back because they're just steamrolling through the Eastern Conference. They're just telling them, hey, just get your health, relax. They've had more rehab time with this guy than any other player could dream up through the playoffs. So they're sitting there healthy. Meanwhile, Dallas has gone through these tests like you alluded to. I do think the more tests you go through in the playoffs and have success, the higher your confidence and the higher your

team builds just in terms of preparing for what the finals is going to be like. So when we talk about a Dallas Celtics final, who's more ready to play in the finals? Dallas would be the answer. Now, does that translate to them winning games? I mean, I don't know, man. Maybe because the Celtics are rested, they have their legs. It's so hard to like scientifically put a diagnosis on some of these things. But I always like when a team gets battle tested. When you look in the history of sports, it's very rare a team just sweeps through the entire finals and then gets to the championship and that's a sweep too.

We haven't really seen that. It helps when a team has gone through a couple battles, you've tested each other, you know, we've been through some adversity, you know, it usually builds a little bit of strength and confidence within a team. You've seen Dallas had to go through that. And I think they're obviously more battle tested than Boston, but it ain't that much.

I mean, listen, I'll give them credit for the OKC series. But other than that, they played a Clippers team that didn't have Kawhi Leonard, like you said. They should, you know, they won that series playing against a team that didn't have their best player. I give them credit for. Okay. See, it's a great battle. Great team. Uh, awesome. Very young.

Yeah. Great. Yeah. I mean, still, and the, you know, they're just young. I, okay. So he's going to be a much better team as the years go on. We all know that now we find themselves in the Minnesota series and maybe we're not giving them enough credit.

Listen, Minnesota is fully healthy. They don't have nobody injured. This is a team. We just talk about battle tests. They just be Denver. That's what's so strange. Like I thought Minnesota's energy, just confidence would come into this series just overflowing. That's, that was the main reason I had them winning. They just beat the best team in basketball. I'm thinking like,

you know, this team is going to come in here with the exception of Boston, you can obviously put in there, but on the Western Conference, at least Dallas, Denver has been the best team. And they went in there and won that series in such a dramatic fashion that I just thought the confidence and the energy would be there and it just seemed zapped. And now we find ourselves down three one and I still feel like Minnesota is a better team. I don't know how we're here. I wasn't a believer in this Kyrie Luka project based off of what history has shown. A lot of this has been Kyrie, man.

I haven't seen Kyrie with this light, Ryan, and I haven't seen him play with this type of energy and aura since Cleveland. And this is even different because he just looks more happy and at peace being the number two. I think he's found his niche. You're not a 1A guy. You're capable because on a good night, you're one of the most skilled basketball players to ever touch a ball. But he seems like he's found himself on that team. I've never seen Luca like somebody like him. We've tried to pair every single player with Luca and Luca's been like, eh, eh. There's like a high respect Luca has with Kyrie. Every

time Kyrie hits a tough shot, look at Luca's reaction. He's like looking at the camera, holding his head. He's so infatuated with Kyrie. And I think that chemistry just coming on as of late, it's like a March Madness thing. It's like they're just clicking clicking at the right time and you could just see this momentum growing and their role players are playing great in the, you know, now Jason kids, the hero again, when he was possibly going to get fired a month ago, two months ago, you know what I mean? It's so crazy that the NBA works, but like we're seeing this team kind of jump into it. I don't know what it is with Kai. I mean, that'd be a great interview to ask like what's changed? What's got you here? We're not going to get him on this show. Maybe you guys will get him. You and Posh. Yeah, I don't think he's coming. Last thing, I want to finish with this because I

found the conversation around it. I mean, you're just an absolute tastemaker when it came to the NBA NFL comp thing. You went on with McAfee and I think the quote was you thought there were 30 players today in the NBA that could play in the NFL. Whereas the other way around, it wouldn't happen. I do wonder if there's a something for my world where you could ask 30 and could 30 not NBA just sports podcasters become great radio hosts because I think 30 radio hosts could become great podcasters, not radio hosts, because I think 30 radio hosts could become great podcasters.

Not nearly as impressive or as important. I get your point, okay? I think where you hurt yourself is when you said 30. I think your point- I know, I was wrong, I was wrong. I should've said 50. Ha ha ha ha! Wow, doubling down on it.

So what's that been like for you? Well, first off, it's been really good, to be completely honest. I mean, ESPN had to be happy. I only created content free for everybody for like two weeks. People ran with that topic. It wasn't even intentional, to be completely honest. I said it halfheartedly.

It was a non-serious conversation with Pat, because he was talking about NBA players being prima donnas and all these things. And I was like, hey man, listen, you can talk about NBA players, but I can take 30 of us and don't leave like, hey man, listen, you can talk about NBA players, but I can take 30 of us and don't really, you can't take 30 of you guys, put them in. Done.

I said that one clip, he clips it out. Suddenly, Austin Rivers says, da da da da da. I'm like, calm down. First off, is it 30? I don't know, it could be 50. It could be 10, it could be 15. I don't know, I just know there's a history. This is the difference here.

And I don't even wanna like, I don't wanna like talk, is the difference here. And I don't even want to like, I don't want to like talk. First of all, I have a high, high respect for NFL players. Okay. They're freak athletes. All right. Freakish athletes. With that being said, there are so many positions and that's sport, and you're only playing on one side of the ball, right? That there are guys that I can slot in certain positions with levels of training that I think can translate into the NFL. Whereas NFL skills obviously don't translate into basketball. It's not even the same thing. So it just happens to be what it is. They got offended

by it. But I have guys, a long list of players, Ryan, that I can go to and point at and say, these guys never played football. They played basketball their entire lives. They didn't make the NBA. And they said, you know what, let me go try football. And not only did they make the NFL, they became one of the best players at their position. Tony Gonzalez is an all hall of fame tight end. Jimmy Graham, Antonio Gates, shit, my class. Ricardo gathers was a guy who played at Baylor didn't make it.lor didn't make Rico Rico. Did it did it make a the NBA? So guess what he did? You went playing the NFL.

That's why when DJ Burns was on that run in NC State, nobody was talking about him playing in the NBA. We had guys on ESPN Shannon Sharp included NFL players included saying, you know what we should go get DJ Burns. He should play in the NFL. Why is that? My point is because a big He should play in the NFL. Why is that? My point is because a big part of playing in the NFL is physicality alone, which we have in the NBA. We have guys who are six, seven, six, eight. Travis Kelsey dapped up

Luke Adonkage after the game and the whole world was like, yo, they're the same size. Duh. Those are our point guards. If I took OB Toppin and prime LeBron James or a prime Derek Rose or Westbrook or a Lou Dort or Aaron Gordon, you want me to keep going? If I took these guys and just like, yo, go train for six months to go try to be a tight end or a wide receiver and slot as maybe even just end zone targets. Come on, man, bro. Like there's a long history of us guys doing it, but there is never ever ever there never will be right there never will be a guy who's never played basketball before in

his life who's playing college football that's going to go, hmm, I'm not going to make the NFL. I'm just gonna go play in the NBA. It'll never happen. It's never happened. And the delusion of like some of these guys thinking like, yo, I could go out there and play five, six minutes and get five fouls and check up some shots. Why the hell would that get you in the NBA?

No, is that what role players do is play five, six minutes and foul five times and check up five shots? Like, are you out of your mind? The role players in the NBA were best players wherever they came from in college. They're all American, big Donald's all American. Like people don't understand like the end of the bench of the NBA player.

Like Jayden Hardy is a guy who's like the eighth man and the guy was like a top five player in his class. Like you, people don't get it. So it's just like, I understand you're mad at me. Maybe it was the right message, wrong messenger. I don't know what it is. Maybe LeBron James should have said that comment, but it is the truth.

And I had plenty of NFL players, Brandon Marshall, Saquon Barkley, a lot of guys hit me up and be like, yo, you know, you're right. Just some of these guys are sensitive and they just don't want to hear it. He goes, if I could have played in the NBA, I'd definitely be playing basketball over at NFL. And I could take a whole bunch of y'all and come play over here. He goes, no doubt.

So it just is what it is. I talked about America's sport. It's America's sport. It's football. It's good old American football. And they didn't like that. And that's what I got. So it is what it is. They don't even, let's be honest. You know what, I'm gonna take it easy. No, don't be honest. Bro, we talk about football, man. I don't even think of that sport. I think of

the actual football. Football is only an American thing. Actual football is soccer. Okay, you understand I'm saying like, but but in America, football is is number one. It is what it is. The NFL, but the difference is, and I tried to explain this to players, your league is is number one because of your teams, not your players. In terms of players, the NBA is number one in America. We have the most notoriety. No kid goes into a sneaker store and says,

let me get those Tom Brady's off the wall. They don't say that, okay? No one buys NFL sneakers. Rappers don't talk about football players in their songs. All right? Hollywood actresses and moguls and stars, with the exception of like a Travis Kelce and like a couple guys again, because there's going to be exceptions. We

all know who the basketball players were girls or this is net. It's just different, man. I don't care what anybody says. You get mad at me all you want, man. I have no respect for football. And again, I'm only talking about why receiver tight end. And I didn't say, listen, I didn't say they'd come in there and be hall of famers. I just said there has been guys who have done it before. Travis Kelsey played basketball. It won't go work out with him. He played football. He's one of the best tight ends ever. Fife talk did mention Vinnie Testa Verde, just for the record. So here's what I think happened.

I don't know, there's some Randy Moss references. There's some Tom Brady references. Again, there's exceptions. Like Josh Hart is a role player and he's on a Mike and Ike box. Like it's different over this way. That's all I'm saying. Like it's just different. You know it.

Oh, look, here's where I think the conversation would need to start, but that's not what happened because it's just not what happens. Everybody would have to get in a room and agree that one path is easier than the other path. Okay. It can't be even you have to say in a vacuum, what would be an easier transition? I think Mo Ali Cox hadn't played football since his freshman year of high school and

played at VCU, played Hoops and then was just like, okay, and then made a team. So there has to be one path that would be an easier transition than the other one. And then once we could all agree on that, the evidence is clearly in favor of your argument. But I think there becomes like, there's different things. Like I've noticed it with WNBA stuff. Like you can only say this about the WNBA.

If you say this, then it's like, oh, you're one of those guys. You're like what? Somebody that is- Exactly, Oh, you're one of those guys. You're like, what? Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Like, have you heard me talk about some of my least favorite NBA teams or players? Like what we do is we are complimentary and we were both critical, but there are certain things. It's like, wait, you're being critical of this. It's like, wait, I'm not allowed to be. So this isn't, it's not apples to apples, but it's, it's because you,

it's because of a basketball player and because you're not a hall of famer, then it turns to like, I think J.J. Watts been like awesome after an early career of people getting like frustrated with his social media stuff. He was unhinged against you. James Jones was like losing his mind. And then your comeback to him,

I actually thought was pretty funny because you were basically like, look at my career earnings. When you go career earnings at your level, we're talking eight figures plus, I think that's pretty good content there. But I don't even want to do that because I hate talking money. It's tacky. The reason I did that with James Jones is because he got personal. First off, it was really weird with him.

His reaction like him coming at me, first off, I never said I was the guy that could play in the NFL. I was talking about like Zion Williams lining up there, tight ends, something like that, linebacker, I don't know. I was like, what? I think he, go ahead, go ahead. No, I just, that's why JJ apologized. Remember JJ came on the next day, he's like, yo, I didn't read his whole quote.

I didn't, I thought he was talking about himself. If he's talking about like a LeBron James, a guy who's like six, seven, six, eight humongous guy. By the way, it's like, bro, I'm like six, four, two, 20. I run a four, five, and I have like a 38 inch vertical. Like I probably in my prime could have maybe trained to be a tight end wide receiver. I couldn't take that physicality. Football wasn't my thing. So I didn't say myself, but we're not going to do this thing where like people like also couldn't like bro. If you saw me like walk next to any of

these NFL players, I'm way bigger than most of them. I saw Darren Williams absolutely drag Frank Gore in a boxing ring. We got to stop doing this thing where like people think basketball players are like these little dude, like bro, we're bigger than all these guys. All of them. All of them. Right. But I do. I do think the NFL argument and why they got so upset. So many NFL players get upset is that there is a wiring that you need. 110 percent. And so I don't have it. Right.

And I don't have it, which is why I didn't say my name on that list. But guys like Jalen Suggs and LeBron James grew up playing football, Ryan. Like these guys play football and obviously were really good at basketball. So they went that way. Jalen Suggs was like a top football player in the state of Minnesota. Like this is this is this is a guy who could have played football at high levels if he really wanted to. Same with LeBron James or an Allen Iverson and the list goes on. So like we have a lot of these guys who are multi-sport capable, but because they are

better at basketball, if you can play basketball, you play it. All right. There's guaranteed contracts there. There's way more in terms of just notoriety for a player, our commissioner, everything that we have going for us, the player voice in our league is so much stronger. There's everything that folds to being an NBA player over an NFL player, unless you're a quarterback. All right. Quarterbacks take the one position that if you can rock out at, then my God. But again, I was talking about two positions, man, and it was just wide receiver

and tight end. I'm not talking about anything else. By the way, then I found the rules are these days, they really prevent anybody from hitting anybody crazy. It's not like I'm talking about 90s football or early 2000s. I'm out there getting cracked by Ray Lewis getting my head beat in. They have all these different regulations and rules. They're coming up with new helmets and different things to make the rules a little bit more safer for guys. There's like this aspect of like NBA players aren't physical and like we can't take physicality. Like bro, we got some dogs in the league, man.

We play 82 games a year. You guys play one game a week. There's a lot of guys who can make that transition to being a tight end or wide receiver. I'm sorry. I said 30, it could be 40. I'm not even kidding. It just, it is what it is. I have no, I have all the respect in the world for NFL players. There's a level, like you said, of wiring that they have to have that you absolutely do, especially for most of the positions, for most of the positions, for most, not all. I'd say all, look, I'd say all of them. I mean, we can talk rule change all you want.

They're kicking the ball with a certain level of wiring. He has no wiring. There's no wiring with him. Yeah, but we're not talking about kickers and punters. That's not part of it. No, no, no, no, that's fair. But why receiver tight end? Yeah, you're right. I mean, to go through the middle,

you gotta have a different level of wiring. You're still going to get lit up a few times. No, you gotta get lit up, yep, yep. The first time you ever get blasted on a football field is like your baptism where at a very young age you go, I want nothing to do with this. Do I still want to do this? Yeah.

Or so. And I'm not porn. Right, right. And as big as some of these NBA dudes are and how special their athleticism is. And look, I still agree with your general theory still. Okay, so we're on the same page there. There's some six, seven, two, 40 guys that the first time they actually felt a helmet in their back, they'd be like, nope, no. 100%. I don't want anything to do with this.

You're right. But just think about it. I said 30, right? That's one guy a team, Ryan. It ain't that crazy. I just said one guy per team could probably make that switch or change. And again, I'm not saying they're going to go be Hall of Famers or starting. There's 200 players on NFL team. Just throw them in a practice squad. I don't know where they'll make it at. I don't have their success. Like, I don't know how good they'll be. I just have guys that I know if they trained, an NFL team will put their hands on them and be like, we'll take that chance. That's what I'm saying. Whereas the role reversal, what I should have said, you know why this was such an issue,

to your point, I said 30. If I would have said five or 10, this wouldn't have been an issue. Because most NFL players would be like, he's probably right. Because there's no, you know how I know I'm right? The whole argument has been, since I've said it, all we've talked about, even in this conversation right now between me and you, we've only talked about NBA players making the jump. Why is no one saying NFL players over here? You wonder why? Because it's not possible. It's not like we're having this conversation. We're going like, Miles Garrett, I don't know. He could be a small fort. Get out of here. That's not happening. That's why the argument itself has already proven it. We sat here for 15 minutes of me and you talking about different players,

different spots, NBA, NBA. We haven't even once went over to the other side and grab players like well he complained him because it's not even a conversation. It's not even a conversation. And the skill part of it is the part that was lost and we'll end it here just because as anybody knows that's ever played any level of basketball like you can see somebody else immediately be like oh like you know like you've never developed any of these skills you don't right you can't actually dribble like i've seen nfl receivers dunkin celebrity games and then people freak out about it i've seen jay colt dunk it doesn't mean he should be in the NBA. Like, bro. J. Cole's got a little game though.

Come on. No, but he can't play in the NBA. He can't play in the NBA. He's playing in the African league. Although, I don't know. Up next, J. Cole, could he change the Western Conference Finals? Uh, no, I just think that the skill part of it,

like I played against Hussein Bolt in a game and he's the fastest man in the world. And he was enormous. And when I backed into him, there was nothing. It was like, oh my God, this is like a cement wall. Like this doesn't mean it. But he actually didn't know how to do anything. Yeah, he didn't know what he's doing.

Right, because he never developed any of those skills. It just doesn't translate. And that was the point I was trying to make is certain skills in basketball. You have to develop those things. If you're not dribbling at a really young age, like you don't just get it. You just can't start dribbling at an NBA level.

Yeah, so that was the point where football simply is catching a ball. Again, I know I'm dumbing it down, but catching a ball and there's routes and there's all these different types of things and footwork, so I get all that. I'm just saying it's because of basketball, has he steps, your steps, crossovers. Some of that footwork could translate to you being on a line with someone and hitting someone with a

step and then going downhill, running and catching a ball. There are some guys who can make that transition. That's all I'm saying. Simply put, simply put, I got nothing but respect for NFL players. I think the quarterback is probably the hardest position in sports. And I got nothing but respect for NFL players. I think the quarterback is probably the hardest position in sports. And I got nothing but respect for all of their players. I just think of the tight end wide receiver spot. We have some athletes that can make that transition. How good they would be, I don't know. But there is a level of physicality

that is crazy in the NFL. And you gotta be wired different to play that sport. No doubt, you're right. Hey, you were in the crosshairs for a little while. Welcome to the game, right No doubt you're right. Hey, you're in the crosshairs for a little while. Welcome to the game. Right. That is Austin Rivers. You can check him out with Pasha, his podcast, off guard and part of our NBA coverage on the Ringer YouTube page. Good checking in man. Yeah, absolutely. We'll do it again. Thanks. Yeah.

Have a good one, bro. The Alliance is ready for you. I hope you are ready for it. Let's see, the last one lost again. It did. We had Kyle and I hit, both your bets did not. So it was our first week in three weeks that it wasn't a three in one situation where we had one wrong only.

So I don't know. I don't know where our heads are spinning. We're seeing goes the knee Smith under he he cleaned up pretty quickly The siakam hit the over on the last back basket that was completely irrelevant in that game when they were trying to run up The clock so that one sucked, but the knee Smith was just totally wrong. I felt good about the second one However, we are Still grinding away here We're here.

Yep. Back to the lab. Yep. Back to the lab. All right. Take it away, Sarudy. All right. Obviously, this is game five tonight.

Mavs, T-wolves. I'm going to do two this week. I haven't done it in a while. I'm also on a what? A six or seven game win streak. So I said I changed it last week. I'm going to do two this week. If I hit two here, this is gonna be incredibly impressive.

I'm gonna take- You've hit seven bets in a row? Yes, I have. One, two, three, four, five, six. Sorry, six bets in a row, six. Six, I know, solve gamely. I'm gonna take Nas Reed over eight and a half points, plays better at home.

I also just love Nas Reed and I love rooting for him. So there's some good number stuff behind that one. Little Nas Reed? And I'm gonna take Anthony Edwards, not little Nasrid. He's big Nasrid. And I'm going to take Anthony Edwards six plus rebounds because he's been on like a tear rebounding recently. So those are my two bets. Ryan, you have Jayden Hardy under five and a half points. So another under for you, even though you went 0 and 2 last week, you're really on the under side.

Take care. I can't believe Jayden Hardy is just going to score a million points now too. I mean on top of everything else. Two threes right off the bat first quarter would be great. But yeah. Uh, yeah. Give me the Hardy under. Hardy under and Kyle, you have the Kyrie Irving four plus assists, correct?

Model teammate now. That's been a terrible watch. So Nas read over eight and a half, Anthony Edwards, six plus rebounds, Kyrie, four plus assists and Ryan's Jayden Hardy under five and a half. That gets you plus four29. That's incredible because the alt-naz total Saruti props to you for getting creative with that. I like that. I don't think I've liked one as much as I've liked this one in years. Yeah the alts are where it's at if you're doing parlays. So yeah for one yeah just tweak one of the alts. Yeah I love it. So all right let's get it boys. All right good luck.

tweak one of the alts. Yeah, I love it. So all right, let's get it boys. All right, good luck. You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you can possibly imagine. And best of all kids, I am liquid. possibly imagine. And best of all kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. The email address is lifeadvicerr at gmail.com. What is up to Kyle and Steve? How's it? Okay, let's get right to the emails. We have a couple. Moving to Burlington for the summer. How to be friendly with four female roommates. Interesting. You guys both have female roommates right now, right?

Yeah. You can call her that. Yep. Definitely. That's one term for it. Like, hey, it's not so much our marriage, but I think I want another roommate. Okay. Ryan, Steve, Kyle, long time listener. Love the pod 24. Oh, 24 year old male.

I was like 24 meters. That's not true. Five nine one 60 comp is Muggsy Bogues. You're you're huge Muggsy Bogues. I'm moving to Berlin, to Vermont for the summer for a job in the media. Wow. We could have left that out, but Vermont for the summer for a job in the media. Wow. Probably could have left that out, but let's go summer housing situation.

Yeah. Can you write me a letter of recommendation? Like, Hey, did you guys hear Doug emailed that Priscilla podcast? All right. He asked for a raise and my best option was a place with three female roommates, four after one of their sisters moves in during June. My long-term girlfriend is being a real trooper about it and super supportive, though she's definitely made some quote jokes about how I better not be getting

freaky with them. Parentheses, never would! Exclamation point. My question is, what are some good ways to be friendly and outgoing with my new lady roommates without seeming like a creep? I have absolutely no bad intentions here and don't feel like I need to make new friends,

but I wanna foster a comfortable living situation. How old is this guy? 24, this generation. Did you ever wanna foster a comfortable living situation, Kyle? Yes, when I moved out here actually, my aunts, I think they're called estheticians like not quite a doctor but not quite a non-doctor. Non-doctor like

middle ground there. Not quite as someone you'd meet. The purgatory of doctors. Yeah but so she needed a roommate so when I first moved out here I moved in with this like 30 year old woman who was like kind of on her way out, but her roommate left, whatever. It was just like, she's like, oh, I can fix this for you. My nephew's coming out here. You need a roommate. So boom.

And I was on eggshells for a while and then I kind of pulled the rip cord and she, cause she was leaving anyway, but it was, it's strange, it's definitely strange. You're like, whatever standard of clean I think I have or respect, you know, respectfulness, I basically been in my parents' house, been in dorms. And then right before that, I was in Potsdam with a, you know, a five bedroom house with one bathroom with a bunch of, you know, 20 something.

So I, my frame of reference for, I think clean or respectful or whatever, I don't think it was whatever I don't think it was I don't think it was up to par but I kind of realized that after I was in there I was like oh okay I've got some learning to do here so I don't envy this I was pretty uncomfortable but yes I did want to foster a good relationship with a roommate yeah I think estheticians probably closer to non-doctor than doctor. I think they wear lab coats, but I guess so do the people at Kiehl's. So I don't know.

Yeah. Well, I don't want to offend the entire industry here. So just hold off. We get it. But yeah, on the doctor scale. But I'd imagine an esthetician probably has a pretty clean house. That would be weird. Yeah, she's great at her job. scale, but I'd imagine an esthetician probably has a pretty clean house. That would be weird. Right.

Or she's great at her job. She's, she's awesome on the latest moisturizer, but her place is a dump. She's a hoarder. Okay. Uh, back to the email. So as we peruse through his predicament here, uh, thinking of the occasional movie night or chilling out on the patio, that's

just what I enjoy and would love to have the company and my roommates. I just don't want to seem too weird, especially because there's a significant age gap with two of them not yet being 21. Dude, you're 24, bro. This isn't cream running around at the end with this dog. Yeah, but you've said this. When you're younger, that is, it's bigger. It's a little bit, especially if they're not 21.

So you're not going to be able to like yeah go out with them as much yeah because there's another email that deals specifically with this he says by the way any good food recommendation or know a comfy bar to play pokemon on my game boy in uh i'll tell you what if you share that you don't have to worry about sleeping with these girls yeah knew that was coming yeah i mean I mean, there's just, all you have to do is tell them you want to play Pokemon

on your Game Boy and you probably, I don't think you're gonna have to worry about a lot of stuff. Well, look, his head is in the right place here. I think it's pretty challenging. I'm surprised your girlfriend's not giving you a little bit more shit because, you know, the way our species seems to work is once you're in

kind of a living situation and there's this comfort there and there's always somebody, so I'm actually like answering the email in a way that you probably didn't want it answered, but, um, this is kind of the way like some stuff goes. Cause there's going to be like one that maybe likes you. You send an email, saw your picture, attractive guy. Um, but. that maybe likes you, you sent in the email, saw your picture, attractive guy. But you could just do like a full blown intro in, be like, hey, I'm so fired up to live here, you're living in a great place.

Obviously, Burlington is one of my favorite places in the world. And you could just say, I'm so excited. But you don't wanna be like, just so you know, I'm so excited. But like, you don't wanna be like, just so you know, I'm totally off limits. Because then they're just gonna be like, this guy's a loser, okay? So.

Wasn't interested anyway, guys. Yeah, right. Right? You know, to reassure your girlfriend, you'd be like, I gave him a speech about how I was off limits day one. We had a house meeting about it. So don't worry, everything's good.

Put a note on the fridge. I honestly I don't, I think overthinking this would be the only mistake you could make. I would under think here. Okay, I would under question. Like what is it? He's just looking like assimilate properly. How do I do this? I mean, it's kind of scary. What is it? Three, three women roommates plus fourth coming down the pike. Yeah. You know, what what do do? Like should I, when they're taking vodka shots in the living room at 9.45 before they go out,

should I join? Should I not? I understand there's a lot of things that you don't really know what to do. It's pretty, you don't know if it's different protocol. It might be the same protocol. I don't actually have the answer to that. Overthinking it'd be a mistake.

I, you shouldn't even like that You're already this kind of like, honestly thought there was it have made way too way more to do with the relationship and the reassurance. Like there's no way anyone I've ever dated be like, Hey, I'm going to go live with these college girls for well granted that'd be super fucking weird now. But you get the point. Like when I was in the window of potentially doing this, even though I hated having a roommate, I haven't had a roommate in such a long time because I was just like, I don't want one. But that's not always certainly feasible at this age. I would just go with it, man.

Just go with all of this and don't worry about it because your attitude, your personality, like all of these are gonna to be the defining factors of how the summer goes. And if you are to the word of your email here, absolutely not interested, totally in love with your girlfriend here, like they're probably going to want to have girls, like they're probably going to invite you to the first time. Try not to get like weird older guy wasted the first night you ever go out with them. Right? It sounds like you don't even want to do it. Well, but to their point, like,

the post college gap. Yeah. Or maybe somebody's still taking classes or whatever. Saruti? I don't think this is, like, what I would do in this situation is I would just, you know, talk about your girlfriend around them, make it known, obviously, that you're a good dude

and that nothing's going to happen. But don't be so forward with it where it's constantly being thrown in their face. You want them to know that you're taking it, but you don't want them to be like, hey, as I said before, I'm off limits. And then just be you. Be fun. Have a good time. But bring up your girlfriend a lot. And she's obviously probably going to come visit you. They could meet her. Hopefully they like her. but he gets along. Like it's gonna be fun. Like you're gonna be fine. When I met my wife, she and my cousin were living with a guy who they all worked at ESPN and we're still friends to him to this day. He's a great dude. He was like the cool, like there was, I don't, like I don't, I never really thought there was anything weird about it at the

time. It wasn't weird. I mean, I think that's kind of like how it is these days, but he was just like one of the roommates. Like he was around, they watched movies together. Like I would come over, we would talk about sports. Like it was totally fine. And I would just, I, you don't want to be forward or weird about like how uncomfortable you are in the situation. Just be yourself and talk about the things you like and don't do anything weird. That's all you have to do. Yeah. Make a a T shirt with her picture on it and wear it.

Yeah, I think maybe the happy medium between T shirts and talking about your girlfriend all the time could be just take a FaceTime in the living room every once in a while. You know what I mean? It's like, oh yeah, this is best and Stacy or whatever. This is my girlfriend. Here's the place. Here's the new place.

Looks good. I don't know what if there's smoke shows? Yeah. Well, I guess you have to decide that. I mean, you don't have to do it as you walk in. But I'm saying, you don't even have to, but like if you're just there talking to her, it's different than you bringing her up all the time, which could be construed as weird or like,

if you don't do that in the right way, they could just read it on you. You know what I mean? This is easy. What is he doing? But the other thing I would say is just, what kind of drinker are you? I mean, you're 24, that's like prime for me. I don't know if you're like the post grad,

I'm just gonna be in the library a lot. I've got a couple shows I'm interested in catching up on. The Game Boy thing tells me he's not 24 year old Kyle. Yes, I know that, but I do wonder like, yeah, but all it takes is, it's two o'clock in the morning, you guys all get back into the living room, two of them go to their rooms and you're like, should we, should we open up this whatever?

And then now it's two in the morning and you're drunk with your roommate who might be looking a lot better than she usually does to you. So that's all I was like, what, I wish I could ask what kind of like drinker are you? Are you going in here being like, I'm maybe I'm a lot.

The Game Boy tells me, he doesn't seem tempted though. Like he, he, he, I don't know. He's not there yet. I mean. You're right. There's also a good chance, I would don't know. He's not there yet. I mean. You're right. There's also a good chance. I would imagine your girlfriend's probably going to be there when you move in.

She's probably going to meet all these girls, right? I would, I would just guess that. She's certainly going to visit. You ask your girlfriend to move your furniture? I don't know. You know, she just tags along. You know, she's. I had a girlfriend that did that.

She was like, I'm going to move with you, but you know, help you move in and everything. I was like, why would you want to put yourself through that? She's like, cause I like him in love with you and want to see your new house. It's like, Oh, you're like, yeah, that's weird. That's fucking what an inconvenience. I think we need to have a talk. This guy, look, everything will happen based on

your you're actually in control of the situation. You can decide however you're going to decide however it goes here. You're the only guy that's gonna make this weird. I feel like your girl your girl's cool with it. If you're cool with your roommates, that's gonna be fine. You're the guy that's gonna screw this up. So I guess that's why he's nervous. But I don't know. My buddy did it for grad school. He lived in Boulder with two undergrads and he was in grad school and I think he was 30.

And it was he was awesome. Like he also has the perfect personality for this. And he was like their big brother, but he they had parties and he'd hang at the party. If there's something going on, he would go and because he was an undergrad there, nobody quite really knew how old he was. And we we were like are you in the mix all the time and he was like absolutely not but sometimes I am. So he made the most of it and he was like a legend because we're like wait what is he doing? You're like you didn't hear what he's doing right now? Like come on is he really doing that? Like yeah yeah, it's all he could afford. And the girls were like, full on

his best friends there for like a couple years. So it could be an awesome experience. Yeah, it could be done. Right. Okay. Good transition here. By the way, Kyle, credit for me not saying anything about the cousin new rule on the pod. Yep. Matt even brought it up but good for you. I was waiting I was trying to actually get in there right when he stopped talking to save it but I mean it sounds like you already had his game plan so good job by you. No I just I just the only I'm hesitant to even do that because it's just a new rule like we're just not going to do

it anymore so I'll do the last time. Yep shout out shout out to me. Okay how long can I stay in my college town? No relevant gym stats my pickup game has been compared to Patrick Beverly and Marcus Smart. It must be fun to play against. I've been known to take an overly aggressive approach to defense. I've never gotten into a fight at a pickup game, but oftentimes dudes will say, what's your deal?

Or tell my friends to get me to cut it out. Yeah. I really don't like you. Anyway, I'll cut to the chase. I'm 22 years old, just graduated college this month and I'm starting to get a little worried about my post-college social life. Many of my friends in my class

are moving elsewhere after the summer. My longtime girlfriend is studying in Europe for part of the fall. Bunch of dude roommates. Yeah, yeah, right. We can give you an entirely different answer to that email. I have a pretty decent job. I have a pretty, right. You entirely different answer to that email. I have a pretty decent job. I have a pretty, wait, okay.

This is beyond pretty decent. He has a job, which we're not gonna say what it is, but it is at 22 years old to have a job at this place. You would take that job. In the place that you went to college, this is what you wanna do. This is incredible starting point at 22. 15 minutes from the campus of my school.

In all likelihood, I'll be living either in the same place I lived during college or real close to it. My question is how much time can I spend hanging out with the people from my old school before I start to look like a loser? I remember high school guys who graduated coming back for football games or whatever and always looked to me like they had nothing better to do. I could for sure find some more friends outside of the school but given that I transferred to the school and graduated from many, many of my friends are going to be seniors this year,

oh because he transferred so he's friends with some younger dudes. I've already talked to one of them who wants me to be going out with them or going to parties and the like, but I don't know if I'm going to come off as a loser with nothing better to do. going to parties and the like, but I don't know if I'm gonna come off as a loser with nothing better to do. Should I get ground, or should I set ground rules to myself like not showing up at dorm parties and only meeting people out at bars?

That's a good one. That's a good one. Let's start there. How many fucking dorm parties were you going to your senior year, by the way? Yeah. Although look, every school is different. Client, client.

Yep. But to be fair, not every school is the same where that would be socially acceptable. Maybe some smaller schools where it would still be going on based on what the housing situation is at the schools. But yeah, maybe a time out on the dorm thing. Let's see here. Should I set ground rules for myself?

Also, if this job goes well, I'll foreseeably be staying in the same location for a long time. At what point do you become too old to be going to all the bars that you went to in college? Maybe I'm overthinking this and I should just see where everything takes me, but I'm weird becoming the 30 year old guy

who's hanging around his college town for no good reason. Thanks for all the content. Okay. Well, this I mean right at my alley, to have covered before. We have covered this before, but audience grows. my alley, which we've covered before. We have covered this before, but you know, audience grows. I don't think we've done this. Saruti's on a repeater watch here. Okay. So I stayed for like the fifth and sixth year and then went home because I thought, hey, now I have to go home. It's over. And then went home and despised it because I was

in Martha's Winter, the winter, and was like, well, I, a loser here. I might as well just go back to Vermont and be a loser there. Cause that was at least way more fun. And then got two more years out of it. Uh, 50 year guy, it was significantly different immediately. Okay. Even though I was still going to the same bars, cause I managed one of them. And then roommate wise, I was living with a guy who was on his sixth year.

So we had gone through like school together, fraternity together, he was on the lacrosse team. Like it was basically having my buddy around. And even though we were both working at bars, there would be moments where we'd be like, all right, screw it. Like we're going to go with these guys or whatever. And then I remember our house like decided to, they voted to pay for me and the six year guy to go to our formals together because we weren't going to go. And I still think it's one of the most, um, like incredible acts of a young guy doing something super nice and generous, where I just felt like at 22, most people would be incapable of even thinking of something like that. And they were like, Hey,

let's make sure we invite Rosillo and the other old guy that's still around. Uh, which, you know, looking back, we just went and brought dates, had a blast, tore it up and like, cool. So dates were older or you're, what's that? Were the dates younger or were they your age? How could they be older? I mean, where do you, yeah, how could they be older? were they your age? How could they be older? I mean, where do you Yeah, how could they be older? Well, you never know.

Some other two loser girls around. No kidding. Hey, take it easy. Okay, got me all riled up. I thought it was okay. Sorry. Yeah, I would say there's pretty good chance they weren't gonna be older. But I definitely like thought about it. I thought about like, okay, you're still here. Like, what are you going to do? And like the town I was in like, okay, you're still here. Like, what are you gonna do? And like the town I was in was so small,

it's a lot smaller than the town that this guy's talking about. So what are you gonna just have all these ground rules? It was like, I can't go here or I can't go there, I can't do that. Like it just wasn't realistic. There may have been, there's no real attachment to the dorm.

There definitely was like a different thing where I wasn't like just recycling whoever graduated with like the next group of friends to be like friends with those guys like I became friends with people that are actually all like five years older than me. That became my social circle because it was just all the guys that were involved in the bar somehow. So whoever was an older bartender that was still around those then became my friends or the hockey players that would come

back during the summer. And that was just that was it. So there was definitely some kind of line, but I'll never forget. I think I've told this story one other time is that when I was a. Senior, there was another guy that was a fifth year who was all about all the college life, went to the games, did all the stuff, had parties, went to parties. And the second September rolled around. He turned 40 years old. I was like, Hey, why don't you come by the house or why don't you come over our apartment here, come down here. He was one of our friends.

We loved the guy. And he was like, nope, time to move on. Got to put that in your rear view. He graduated in life. Yeah, right. He was determined that as soon as September started up, he would not be seen at any of the bars. He wouldn't go to anybody.

And the thing is, he would not be seen at any of the bars. He wouldn't go to anybody. And the thing is he was fucking 22 years old. Okay. So our emailer here is really, really young. And I think your head is just in the right space. There's, there's nothing about this. Like there's a great awareness from the emailer here, but I would say because of that awareness, I wouldn't have as much

concern. And considering you're living in the same neighborhood, don't apologize for having a job that's already in this spot. And you're still going to run into people. And if these are people that are your friends and it's going to be a good time, I understand what you're saying. You don't want to come off as that guy, but you live there. Like yeah, there were some people that called me a loser and trust me, nobody thought I was a bigger loser than me towards year eight, where I was like, it's fucking time to go, you know?

But I didn't have any prospects. Like no one was getting on my case even close to as bad as I was getting on my own case. So I knew that it was time, but then I knew when I looked back and whatever hangups I had about like still kind of being around, I was like, dude, who gives a shit? Like I'll tell anyone that's young, that's thinking about this.

I promise you, you're going to be old. Okay. So don't force yourself to be older than you actually are. I think the parameters that you're even thinking about are a great sign in that. All right. There's some stuff that I don't want to be calm and i don't want to be doing regularly but if three of your friends or seniors like hey we're all hitting up this place i don't think you have to like silent protest to deprive yourself of something you actually want to do by saying sorry dude i'm twenty two now i'm twenty three now i can't go there even though you really want to. Because if there's another lesson that we all need to learn is that most people don't

really care about you as much as you think they care about you. And sure, maybe there'll be a girl that'll be like, you're still here dude, you know, like one of those. And you're just like, who gives a shit? Like I used to get that all the time. Although I got the fuck out of there before the fifth year reunion because I was like, you cannot be here pouring blood like drops at your fifth year reunion. You can't be. So I think it's, it's not the same as hanging out with high schoolers a year or two after

you graduate, but it's not completely different either. It's not like a completely different genre of music, those two things, but they're definitely not the same. I think you're not here because you're clinging on to something and you've got no prospects. You're here because you've got this job and you could have easily been sent to another city in another state and starting all over. You actually have a blessing. You can kind of blend this world

and while you're figuring out who at your new job is somebody that you actually would be hanging out with on a Friday night or making plans for or something, you still have this other connection. You're not this lonely guy who's talking about joining some sort of club outside of your comfort zone, just to have somebody to hang out with while you're in the new city.

You got the best of both worlds. So I think it's good that you're drawing the line at dorm parties, but I think you've got, whenever you're feeling like, fuck, parties, but I think you've got whenever you're feeling like, fuck, this is hard, this adulting thing, I don't know who to be where I'm at with my job, you still have Mike and your buddies at the house that you can swing by and you've got something else to do. You're not working a dead-end job or hanging out all day waiting for the boys to send you

that text that they're going to wing night or something. You've got enough shit going on. You should actually be you can kind of tap into this world while you got your eyes focused straight ahead I think you're one of the luckier dudes in that town probably. Yeah, I think Lucky, I think yeah. Well, so I think you bring up a good point Kyle You know people are going to talk but you Usually when they're like, hey, what the hell is that guy still doing here? As you said, Ryan, like it's cause they don't have any, they're not, they don't have anything going on. Like they're just there because

they're bored and they don't have any, you, you have a thing. So this guy's way ahead of us. He's managing the credit union. Asshole. What are you doing? Not everybody, not everybody's going to know that, but you know that. So that should make maybe federal court. That's a valley baby. So you should feel better about that just on your own. Not everyone's going to know that, but you should feel better about that just on your own. Not everyone's gonna know that,

but you should feel better about that on your own. The other thing I thought of was, where I went to school at Quinnipiac, there were the younger bars and there were the older bars. Maybe don't go to the 18 plus situation. Don't go to Toad's Place maybe, because that's like, it tends to skew a little younger. A lot of fake IDs.

Go to the place where it's 21 plus or there just is an older vibe. So that's kinda what I would do. And then just an observation, a place where you know it's 21 plus or like there just is an older vibe so that's that's kind of what I would do and then just an observation I do feel like the high school guy like one or two years after high school hanging out at football games like around the track that guy's definitely weirder than college guy one or two years later right yes absolutely so you've got like a two or three I would say you I don't know I one year is definitely fine two years is probably cool at for college if you're still in town three

I feel like you're you know, you're pushing it a little bit. But again, you've got a job you're doing something So you should feel fine about that And if other people want to complain it is what it is, but you uh, you have friends as you said who were still in school I don't think this is a big deal I think just kind of do your thing don't go to the younger bars and just hang out with the friends that you want to hang out with. Uh, yeah, I don't, I think the other thing too, as he mentioned him being a transfer and he's friends with guys that are

actually real seniors right now, there's probably going to be a bunch of people in the social circle that don't even realize that you haven't graduated yet. Totally. You know, yeah, there's a lot of mixing. Yep. Yeah. You're just going to be around. So I cannot emphasize this enough. Don't get in your own head about this. Be thrilled. You're actually still really young. If you emailed us in and be like,

hey, it's six years after I've graduated, I'm still in town and there's some lingerers. Like look, you were still around that long. And for me at my point, year eight, nobody was, none of the original people were still around. I was the only one that was still there. But then I'd become friends with this whole other core group where it was like a transition. I was in like the core friend portal where I went from one group to like a

completely different group because the original group was all gone. And I'm still great friends with a ton of people from that second time around, but I just knew like, thank God. I was like, you can't, you can't actually do this. You can't be comfortable enough to be like, okay, this is just what I'm gonna do. So I would look at it this way, be the hybrid club. You have the hybrid club of life right now, okay? So somebody sees it in your bag and they're like,

hey, can you hit it? And you're like, maybe, maybe, but it's there. But it's there. I have it, it's an option. You know, those options are there for you socially, which you should look at as a huge plus, not overthinking. Just based on this email alone, I'm not even remotely worried about this guy. He's already like, what's cool or what isn't cool? What's cool and isn't cool is going to change depending on who the other person is, but ultimately, who gives

a fuck? If these are your friends and they have something good going on on Friday, then maybe you're in. And then the next time you're out because you have different responsibilities and maybe you don't want to be going. And the other thing you're going to learn too is like, depending on how much you went out, if you start trying to like go out at the same pace, but with the irregular planning, as opposed to just the Wednesday through Saturday grind

that most people are signing up for during those college years. I love that you call it a grind. Yeah. What time Saturday rolled around, like do we even want to go out? And be like, we have to, it's Saturday. Oh, sorry. You're gonna yell at me if I try to stay on.

Sorry for asking. I don't think there's anything else to add to this. This is good. This is, I think both emailers actually, their perspective makes me think they didn't really need that much advice. Couple good self-awareness emails, I like that. Yeah, and- Yeah, really good.

A switch is gonna flip one day when actually drinking with college kids is gonna seem like not a good time at all. So that's, I don't know how much time is left in that light bulb that you got there, but that filament is going to burn out one day. So yeah, it's fine. You'll know the time. And these are already his friends. Like, that's a really important part of this. They're already, you know how much weirder it would be like, sorry. It's like the guy that I talked about. We're like, you're not going to come over to our house.

We've known you for, this will be the fourth year we've known you. We've hung out all of the time. We, it's not some party. It's not some like 18 and over thing at the 50 cent draft night that we don't even want to go like, we don't want to do some of those things. We're having a party with everyone that you'll,

you'll know all 50 to a hundred people that are going to be there. You're going to know every one of them. You're only a party with everyone that you'll know all 50 to 100 people that are going to be there. You're going to know every one of them. You're only a year older than us. Come over. No. It's time to turn the page. You don't have to like get hammered and act like your casual, your usual college. You just come over and hang out, dude. It's not that hard. We were like, so we're not going to see you all year. He's like, that stage of my life is over. So we're not going to see you all year. He's like, that stage of my life is over. He was that serious about it. Like, and I remember being slightly impressed,

being like, man, that guy's really gonna shit together. As I've got older, I'm like, what a stupid waste of like an opportunity to just spend another year with your buddies. Like he had an apartment 10 minutes away from us and we'd go come hang out. And I know somebody's listening to this be like, Hey, you ever thought maybe the guy didn't like you?

That wasn't it. That wasn't it. He was, do you have to trust me? Cause I knew him and the people probably offering up feedback. I'm going to guess none of you know him. Cause I haven't even mentioned the name. He refused to take part in any of it. Cool, man.

I had a buddy who did something similar, but it was dressing. Like one day he just, it was like the snap of a finger. He just started dressing totally differently. He was wearing like a ton of, you know, button ups and quarter zips and was like, I think we had just, either it was our senior year or we had just graduated college.

Was that for the Manning cast? Back then that was a big deal, man. Listen, but he was just like, hey, I'm an adult now. Like I gotta start dressing like an adult. And it was overnight. And I'm deal, man. Listen, but he, uh, he, he was just like, Hey, I'm an adult now. Like I got started dressing like an adult and it just, it was overnight. And I'm like, that is so, I was, should I be impressed by this or should I be embarrassed for you? Like what's going on here?

And he's still a core guy, but it was just, it was like, it was something I'm like, I've never seen before. Did he, did he stay in the quarter zip Chino phase? Was it a permanent thing? Yeah. How do you go out of that? It's just formal Carl now or whatever. He started working in some like hats too,

like the fedora started being a thing. A lot of J.Crew catalog stuff. And I think he just wanted to change his perception. You know, in college you just wear hoodies and you know, you wear sweatpants and you know, you wear cargo shorts back in the day. And he didn't want to be that anymore. Hey, I've seen it.

I, there was a guy at work at ESPN and just decided he was kind of like the young goofy guy, really nice guy, really liked him. And then one day he just showed up and it was on places buttons, button downs, and it was like, okay, you press for the job you want. Be the person you want them to see you as. And the problem is just a lot of times it just can backfire. Like, are you serious?

This is what you're gonna do? You're gonna wear a blazer? Like, cool. I still, you still suck at your job. Guys in screening in a fucking three piece? I went through like two weeks in college where I was like- All those Padres highlights. Doing college parties with like dressed up because I was like, God, I look so fucking good. I where I was doing college parties dressed up.

Because I was like, God, I look so fucking good. I think maybe it was a court thing or I had to do something. And I went out after and I was like, this is awesome. And then I think two weeks later, I went and I found some button-ups and maybe even like, it wasn't like a matching suit or anything, but it was a pretty fucking sick sports coat, I think. And I felt like I was cleaning up I mean

looking back it's like wait is that your buddy with the suit again is he coming but my buddies at first were like what are you doing I was like just trust me it feels right and I'm you know throwing caution to the wind here and I don't know a lot of girls would be like why you look so nice what's going on and I think I would sometimes come up with reasons that I was wearing the suit that I weren't even true, but I just, did you ever say court? No, I don't think so. I think even then I do. No, it's a huge mix up.

It wasn't even his property. Right. Exactly. But I gotta say, it did feel nice being like in the mix, like that guy's got something going on. Where's he going? Yeah. The Kipsey Kyle in his suit. We'd learn more every day. All right. That'll do it for the show. Thanks to Oregon. Thanks to Strati. And thanks to Kyle. Check out our YouTube page. Ryan and Must be 21 and older, 18 plus in DC, and present in select states.

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