The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Celtics Up 3-0, and the Turn on Luka Has Started. Plus, Howard Beck on Tatum Polarization and Remembering Jerry West.

Episode Date: June 13, 2024

Russillo starts the pod by looking at Boston’s Game 3 win and explaining why they’re up 3-0 (0:42). Then, Howard Beck joins the show to share his thoughts on the Finals, discuss player legacies, and remember Jerry West (17:27). Finally, Life Advice with Ceruti and Kyle (57:24)! I have no experience with cars … should I restore a beat-up van and visit national parks? Check us out on Youtube for exclusive clips, live streams, and more at https://www.youtube.com/@RyenRussilloPodcast The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out rg-help.com to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Host: Ryen Russillo Guest: Howard Beck Producers: Steve Ceruti, Kyle Crichton, and Mike Wargon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Three games into the NBA Finals and it's all boss and they're up 3-0. We'll take a look at last night's game including probably a horrifying fourth quarter for Celtics fans. Lucas turn potentially and some Tatum stuff coming off of game two and a terrific game three. We got Howard Beck to break down the finals even more compared the 24 Celtics to a 22 team that he covered in the finals. We've got some stuff in the Lakers, Coaching Search and of course Jerry West and Life Advice. Okay Boston takes a 3-0 lead in the NBA finals. How did we get here?

Let's start with a couple different things. I want to talk Tatum, I want to talk Luca, and why the Celtics remind me of Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross. So we figured it wasn't a great matchup. Basketball wise for Dallas, I think a lot of us felt that way, but I still felt with Luca and Kyrie going off, the offensive capabilities of what those two guys can do, and they went off last night

in the box score. Kyrie had a terrific game a lot was tasked on him with Luca fouling out which of course we'll get to so Kyrie responds you could see from the beginning of the game Much more assertive looking to attack. I mean from the first possession. So that wasn't an issue at all But I thought with the combination of those two guys and what they're capable of and the improved defense that we've been looking at as a major factor at the end of the regular season and carrying on through the playoffs and the Boston stuff. The stuff that if you've watched the Celtics all season long, why if you have Celtics fans that are friends of yours where they're like, yeah, you know, they're really I mean, look, the stuff that Bill and I've talked about all year long about just those moments where you're like, what is up with these guys? Well, we got a full fourth quarter of it after a small sampling of it at the end of game two.

But when I look at Dallas's problems and there's a long list here, the others is one of the headlines. The others, meaning if you look at the third, fourth and fifth leading scores for the Mavericks through the three games in the finals, they've combined for twenty nine.7 points per game. Boston's others, depending on who that is, because there's like four or five guys you can pick from that group where Dallas can't,

Boston's group is outscoring those three leading scorers by almost 20 points a game. They're averaging 48. PJ Washington was Grayson Allen against the Thunder, hitting 47% of his threes. Went for 25% against Minnesota. So you're like, okay, maybe just had the bad shooting night because there were still looks.

Boston, it's at 29%. And when I watch PJ, when I watch Derek Jones, Gafford's not somebody you're really going to be trusting to like give you something offensively, even though tried that late in game too because Tatum's his primary defender if they're not bringing Tatum up into the switch It just looks like these guys are just uncomfortable and not even thinking about the rim There's there's just a group of possessions Where even if somebody else gets a catch? It's just like I don't want anything to do with this.

And then you factor in the cleave is clearly hurt. Not even thinking about shooting, which you've already touched on in game two Dallas in the finals is now 28% overall from three, 37% on the regular season. Um, they were searching last night, big time. They played 11 guys in the first half Gafford, who's been such a big part of this defensive resurgent in this kind

of Dallas 2.0 version. He played 16 minutes last night. He put in 14 minutes in the first game, so you could say well first game is kind of a blow up, but like he's just played 50 total minutes through three games, and it's clear that kid is just not trusting him the way he just wasn't either exploited

or was just having better games because I think his life was just a lot easier in a non-Boston matchup. If you look at Dallas' defense, before the finals, it was actually only seventh overall in the playoffs at 111 points per 100 possessions. Now it's eighth through three games in the finals. The number's basically the same,

but that's a massive departure from where they were at, their last 15 games of the regular season where they were number one in defense. You could say it's too small of a sample, but that's the thing that kept making you feel like you have to throw out the season-long stats from Dallas, which I still think is the right thing to do, but that number was like five points better at like 106.

Now you could even argue that their playoff number is lower because they faced the Clippers, although a diminished version, a terrific OKC offense, which still just didn't have enough around SGA and then Minnesota that was in a majority of those games in the Western Conference Finals. So the resume of teams that they're facing

are tougher than anybody else. So maybe that number is gonna go down, but you factor in that they're facing are tougher than anybody else. So maybe that number is gonna go down, but you factor in that they're also now collectively shooting way less from three. I mean, these are just all a lot of problems are all coming to a head in the NBA finals. Okay, the Boston angle. If you remember Alec Baldwin's terrific monologue,

they're sitting out there waiting to give you their money. That's what the Celtics do. And boy, did they try to do it in the fourth quarter. It was 85-70 after three. At that point, Boston, at the start of the fourth quarter, after Derek White three and a timeout, it's 91-70. Boston has a 41-19 advantage in the second half. And then Boston invited Dallas back into this game because of the way they just somehow cannot help themselves

from avoiding these offensive stretches where you're like, what are you guys doing? Here's a collection of my favorites. A Peyton Pritchard ISO jumper granted late shot clock. A Jaylen Brown no dribble three point attempt with eight seconds left on the shot clock switched onto Lively. Another Peyton Pritchard Iso jumper where he tried to hit a step back against PJ Washington,

again another late shot clock. Tatum had an Iso against Kyrie, and Kyrie actually held up terrific defensively, but it's that left elbow swing around up and down. I don't even know if it was a fadeaway jumper, whatever it was, it was a flailing jumper that really had no chance. Jalen Brown later on has a step back three against Luca with nine seconds left on the shot clock for whatever reason he took that one.

Horford travels juggling the ball after Luca had fallen down, that play that we'll get to, so it was five on four, and then Horford somehow travels. You've got a Jalen Brown turnover in there. I mean, look, I could list the entire game log, I'm not gonna do that for you. There was that Luca-Jalen Brown collision where not on the sixth foul for Luca, it was a different one, the ball got loose,

Tatum grabbed it, and then Drew Holliday decides to take a three that's not even close to like what you'd expect from him in his game with 15 seconds left on the shot clock, all right? It was possession after possession where they're either so determined to run down the clock that they didn't care about the look, but that's what I can't stand about.

All basketball at all levels is really the way I should say it, where it's like, don't become so obsessed with running clock that you're just inviting yourself into these awful matchups or shot attempts. I don't think Prichard decides to go, hey boys, it's Prichard time. So those shots again, as I point out late in the shot clock, but it just keeps happening over and over and over again. At one point, Dallas had gone on a 22 to two run Boston from when it was 91, 70 in 53 seconds, scored two points over the next eight minutes.

scored two points over the next eight minutes. And when they got it to 93, they didn't score any points for four minutes in 37 seconds again, they're waiting to give you their money. I knew if I were a Dallas fan after game two, I'd be like, they were terrible from three, they were up nine, even though Boston was six to 30 from three. And then they had that brutal stretch towards the end. This was almost the entire fourth quarter. There was also another step back three from Tatum later where he was trying to put the game away where you're like, what is, what is that?

Now, drew holiday may have had the play of the game. Jaylen Brown had a turnaround shot later. That was kind of game, but Drew Holliday at 98-92, when he made it 98-92, it was almost like he just thought, all right, enough of this shit, drives baseline, throws a ridiculous pass, Derek White hits a three. So Luca had fouled out at 4-12. On the Horford travel play that I mentioned,

there was also another Horford turnover in there where he got a rebound and decided to bring the ball up by himself for whatever reason and turned it over. it's just unbelievable how great this offensive team is, how great they are defensively, how great all the stats are over and over and over again. And you're like, wait, if this team is this good, why do they do stuff like that for like eight straight minutes

when it's the difference between likely closing out your opponent with one more game to win and four more chances versus Dallas going, all right, we survived it. Historic comeback, it's 2-1 and Prezengis may or may not be coming back. Building some confidence, all of that. Like that entire quarter is about two very divergent paths. And Boston just decided to put on one of the worst displays of

offense that we've seen in the playoffs. So Luka is a big topic as well because all of these things end up massive referendums on the biggest stars. So, when he drives on Tatum at 93-87, he flops, goes into the baseline seats. It's five on four. Luckily, they get the Hortford Travel, but that's a huge possession obviously in that moment moment. But Lucas so mad about not getting the call that he just hangs back. He fouls out at 412 when it's 93-90. I think it's a terrible decision with five fouls to put yourself at risk of trying to get a charge on kind of a scramble play

where Tatum's bringing it up in transition. There's just not, even if you're going to get that call, you can't risk it being your sixth. Where you're like, wait, I'll add to this when I'm sitting at home, much like you're sitting at home watching that game, you're thinking, are they really going to foul out Luca? I think it's worth taking note of the times where you expect the conspiracy to lead towards one decision and then keeping track of the times. Like, you know what, they found them out. They reviewed it. They went back and said, ah, I mean, first of all, they called it.

Second of all, they didn't overturn it to go, Hey, let's just keep Luke in the game. See if you can extend the series. Keep track of the times. The conspiracies do not win. You'd be surprised. He also yelled at the bench, swore at the bench, because Luca just cannot help himself, and then he ends up fouling out. So he's getting destroyed today.

Windhorst lit him up on Van Pelt's show last night. It was pointed, it was aggressive. I would say it felt like a little bit too much when it became, hey, the winners are over there, and he's gonna have to figure this stuff out because I think both things are true. We've talked about how much Luca is basically insufferable at times.

I actually think he can complain more against LA and OKC than he has in the finals. I think he toned it down a bit in Minnesota too because they were in control of that series. So this isn't even the worst version of what I've seen from him in series prior. His defense in game two was atrocious. He had some defensive approaches in this game that were terrible.

Drew Holliday just dribbles into a three and Lucas got him. There's no screen and Lucas just lets him take the three. The end of the third quarter, the Jaylen Brown dunked to make it 85-70. It's Kyrie on Hauser. Excuse me. It's Kyrie on Jaylen and Hauser has Luca on him. Hauser comes up to set the screen. Jalen actually went early and Luca doesn't even get into the screening action.

He just hangs back just beyond the free throw line and he doesn't even move. Doesn't even move and Dallas had a smaller lineup out there for it. And then Jalen finishes with the in, dunk on top of just the, the times he's getting torched in game two and all those different switches. So here's what I think is very fair about Luca. He complains way too much. It looked even worse last night as he's fouling out, cause he can't do that. He, um, he's not good on defense, but against Minnesota, they did not have

the personnel to take advantage of it the way Boston does because Minnesota would always have people that you could cheat off of really the same thing with OKC. Like, all right, you can go ahead and OKC couldn't hit any shots on top of everything else outside of SGA. But when it becomes, is he incapable of winning because of what happened last night in game three, that's where I think it goes a little too far because I Would expect almost everyone would agree with this the only reason the Mavericks are even in the NBA finals is because of Luca but a week removed from

He's the best player in the world knowing that he would be anointed the best player in the world You would feel like an idiot still saying Jokic is the best player in the world if Luca were to pull this off to Now as he wired the wrong way, that's where I think it's too much despite all the criticism being fair and coming to, like this is part of the finals too where it's like more people are watching and really paying attention, which is very different from those of us, you listening, me talking on the pod about like how much we watch these guys all the time, like, yeah, we knew this, we saw this, but Boston, because of the way they stretch you out,

exploits it much more. Because the finals just ends up, and now we have to like reclassify everybody, although we may have the first finals non-belt transfer in a long time, because Luca's not gonna be allowed to have it and not saying he deserves it. The funny thing will be like what happens with Tatum because if Tatum had played better in the first couple of games and they're up 3-0 and say he's on track to win a finals MVP,

which he's not, I would imagine Jaylen is going to win it if this is a series that's, you know, say Dallas gets game forward, Boston goes home, wins game five. Like we don't have way, like we'd have to have a shift from what we've had based on production so far for Brown to not win finals MVP. And you could argue his turnaround shot late last night is really the one that sealed it more so than the Derek White three off of the Drew Holiday pass. But it might be kind of refreshing that we could have a finals outcome where you're not going,

well, now what do we do with Tatum? I would keep him in the same place. I think he's awesome. I thought he was worse than other people did in game two. Maybe it was because I was there. Maybe you saw something different on TV. I thought he was a guy that was in between decisions as an offensive player who's the primary option and that's a scary place to be because he just had lost his confidence. I do not understand the step back threes. I'll never understand this. It doesn't go in enough.

You're settling and you're letting the defense off the hook. But now we have Luca where maybe it just gets really nasty if they were to get swept, which I don't think I'm going to do. I just don't because I'd be like, okay, these are the limitations that I knew about him. And all, by the way, the rest of the guys aren't doing anything. And Kyrie hadn't really done much in games one and two. So it'll be a departure from the normal routine post finals

of like, okay, we have a result. How good is this team? How disappointing is the other team? What do they need to do to fix it? And let's talk about the stars. Where can we slide them in the top 10 rankings? And I'd argue they're probably going to stay in the same place for me before the finals even started.

The NBA finals are here and FanDuel is giving you the chance to win alongside the champions because right now new customers get $200 in bonus bets with a $5 bet. That's $200 to use on same game parlays, live bets, and so much more. Let's take a look. So Boston plus one and a half. I just felt like with this matchup and the unsolvable problems for Dallas even though it goes against my desperation of o2 versus the team up to oh

I felt like that was the right side we get we look we got the Alliance finally And now the line sits at Boston minus a point, so we'll see if that moves at all That one feels a little tougher because you just don't know if Boston's gonna be like, eh, I don't know. But here's the thing, if you like Boston, of course you could always go with the Kyrie first basket plus 550, which was the case in game three.

Boston, if you like them to win, but you want a better payout and you're willing to live a little dangerously, Boston to trail by 10 or more points and win the game is plus 480. So knowing how these games go, usually one team does get down, comes back. What about that one?

All right, there's no better place to bet all the finals action than America's number one sportsbook. Just download the app and take a shot at an extra 200 bucks. Just go to fanduel.com slash Ryan RYE to get started. Fandual, official sports betting partner of the NBA, must be 21 and older, 18 plus in DC, and present in select states. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. First online real money wager only. $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued is non-retributable bonus

bets which expire seven days after receipt restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fandual.com. Excited to talk to Howard Beck, who I can introduce as part of the ringer after decades in this. I think the first time we ever talked to each other, I was filling in for Obermann and you came down to the studio. We did just kind of like a little studio thing and then I did some twins highlights. So it's been a while, man.

Good to see you. Your memory is better than mine, Rossello. I remember doing that. I still think I might even have like a photo on my phone, like a shot of like, hey, let's take the quick photo before we go on air, whatever. I had no TV experience back then or very little, whatever. I think I remember being really nervous.

I did not remember twins highlights. So your memory is better than mine. But I do remember that, yes, the first time we met was in a studio doing a Oldman show. And then we randomly ran into each other at the Salt Lake All-Star game when I was hanging out with my daughter there last year, right after I got laid off by SI.

That's right. And we talked a bit about that. The only I, the only reason I remember the twins highlights, and by the way, I wasn't exactly like Mr. Anchor, but the Obermann crew was nice enough to have me in when Obermann was off. And then we were running through, I think the four segments. It was like an opening monologue. It might've only been three. There might've been like a parting thing, but it was like an opening monologue that you had to write out. And then you had you, and I promise we'll get to the NBA finals here very, very shortly.

But I remember like the other part, it was like, oh, these are the Keith lights. I was like, what the fuck is that? And they go, well, you know, Keith's one of the best reading highlights. So we want to keep that in the Daily Show. I was like, yeah, but I- Was I on for a specific purpose that day?

It was obviously NBA, but like, was it a Knicks thing? Was it a, I don't even remember what we were doing. It was definitely here in New York. Yeah, I don't remember that. I don't remember this. There had to have been something specific, but I just thought, well, I'm not an anchor though. So I've never really done highlights on TV. And they're like, well, that's the show, man.

It's the only show. So good luck. You're going like, man, a drive deep to left center may have missed a spot. Okay, here we are. Seltzer up three, oh, on the map says anything about this series, support, Man, a drive deep to left center, may have missed a spot. Okay, here we are. The Celts are up 3-0 on the math. Has anything about this series surprised you?

I guess top line, the only thing I may be surprised at is that it's 3-0, right? Like I expected the Celtics to win. I expected the Celtics to win potentially handily if Porzingis were healthy to start the series and looking like himself, which he was until he wasn't. And then of course, when Porzingis were healthy to start the series and looking like himself, which he was until he wasn't. And then of course, when Porzingis was lost, it's like, Ooh, Ooh, there's an opening here. Oh, the Mavericks are at home.

The Celtics are missing Porzingis. You know, Oh, Kyrie's off to a really great start, his best game of the series. And so, you know, you and I both know how this goes. Like sometimes the reality just follows almost a plot line that we expect, oh, a team goes up two-oh, oh, they're probably gonna win, but the Mavericks go get one at home, they'll extend the series,

they're too good to just get swept. And then I think they just kind of came unglued. I mean, Luke in particular, I thought in a lot of ways came unglued, but nothing has surprised me in the sense that once you took the two stars on each side aside you knew that the Celtics were better three through whatever than the Mavericks were like and they had the experience of having been there in 2022 and having been to multiple conference finals this is the more seasoned team and so

I think the Celtics had all the advantages going in and home court on top of it all And so I think the Celtics had all the advantages going in and home court on top of it all. And it's, again, more or less played out, I think the way we would have expected. You know, you could mess with the details, right? Well, you wouldn't have expected necessarily that Tatum was gonna shoot this poorly or that Jalen Brown would be like the leading candidate

for MVP right now. Like maybe some of those details we wouldn't have projected, but I think the broad strokes of this series are kind of what we expected. Yeah, I'm there as well. So let's just get into the Luca part of it because he was on the doorstep of being anointed because that's just the way it would have worked if the Mavs were able to figure out a way to pull this off. And I'm wondering how far it can swing the other way. Because as much as I wanna, we're gonna take him here. But I think Tatum is in a very defined status area in the NBA where the Lucas swing,

the pendulum of like what he would have been the best player in the world to now last night, more people watching in a way they've never watched before where the defense was terrible in game two, uh, he's never going to be a good defensive player, but he needs to fight a little bit more. He had multiple lapses and then he puts him in a self position to foul out. I think both things are true. As I said, in the open, the only reason the Mavs are in the finals is because of

that guy, but I'm open to the criticism, but I wonder how far back it can swing or maybe it'll just be that week after until everybody forgets about it. And then we look at them in an entirely different phase in October of 24, 25. Yeah. I mean, starting last night, we were getting kind of like, remember back when we used to get like the James Harden defensive highlight reels where people would just like string together all of Harden's most asleep, just lackluster, you know, completely, you know, just checked out defensive possessions and string them all together. I was seeing a lot of that on the timeline last night and this morning with Luca. And so suddenly, yeah, the backlash because they've lost and he fouls out and he, you know, and he had some really just, just god awful possessions last night.

and he fouls out and he had some really just god-awful possessions last night. And so there's some of that going on. You know, here's the thing, Luca in the course of his career has been generally a minus defender. One of the reasons that the Mavericks made the strides they did this season, yeah, they got PJ Washington, they got Daniel Gafford, yeah, they made Derek Jones Jr. a starter, they did all these other things to become one of the better defensive teams and to make this trip, this trek to the finals. But along the way, Luca and Kyrie started playing

at a level defensively above what they were known for. Luca was trying. And as we all said, like if we're gonna praise Luca for this, it's okay to criticize him when it slips. Luca, two things, he started defending with some conscience for a while to get them here. He started to rein himself in with regard to the bitching off of every single call or non-call to the refs.

Both of those things have regressed mightily in this series. And if we're gonna praise him when he got himself together on those things, then we certainly need to point out when it slipped. And it has, but that's not the whole thing, right? Let's go back to the top line. Before people start burying Luka on this, and the criticism is legit,

the fact is the Celtics came in with the all the advantages. Like the reason that the Celtics could be up 3-0 with Jason Tatum, who again, he's their best player. I know we're going to talk about Jalen Brown versus Jason Tatum and people are going to cut off and all this. I don't really care. But Tatum can have a bad couple of shooting games and they can still be up 2-0 leaving Boston because they've got Derek White and Drew Holliday and Jalen Brown and for a while, Porzingis and Horford. They're just better.

So Luca doesn't have as much support. Would Luca do just as well with that support? That's a different question. I thought when Kid said it, because I did local TV before game two and I was like Kid was so emphatic about the Jaylen Brown thing and not that he was. Hammering the table. It's just that we're not used to coaches ever

doing something like that. And like, is he already going with the mind tricks? And then I'd read something else following up. It's like, Hey, they both went to Cal and they have this relationship. And I was like, okay, you know, it's, it's a fair point, but it still was not what we're used to

seeing. And one of the things I think was when I was asked like, hey, what do you think? I was like, well, I do think he did it on purpose, but this team has been through this already so many times. The realization that I've had now, and I try to share this where it's people are kind of sick of Boston, of them again, them again. And you're like, well, I always felt like they were ahead of schedule in those earlier years. So now you feel like there's this longer hangover for what was the team this year on paper that was so dominant.

It's like, so what are you actually mad at? You're not even, you can't even be mad at this version. You're mad at 2018. You're mad at the 2020 heat one. I mean, certainly 22, 23 going into this year, I understood the criticisms for it, but I know you cover the 22 finals, so when you look at this team in comparison to that one, and I would just add this part of it,

like that mind trick may have worked in 20 with these two guys it wasn't gonna work in 24 yeah and all I'll um I'll throw another layer on this and I swear like people don't you know they don't aggregate this admonition never actually works but I'll just say so that that I'm bringing this up not for the purpose of saying that this is the case right now or that I'm trying to start anything. I'm just saying, in the past, over the last four or five years, periodically, not just when the Celtics were struggling, but even when they were doing well, there was this periodically buzz around rivals across the league about how Jalen Brown would sometimes chafe at this kind of like co starring or secondary star role and that Jalen Brown had really high aspirations, expectations

for himself and his career. And it was kind of a, this is again, other team executives saying, Hey, don't be surprised if at some point based on a lot of things, including by the way, contract situations, and this is even before the new CBA. And we know what Jalen Brown signed last year. That don't be surprised if eventually Jalen Brown wants his own team somewhere. Don't be surprised if they break them up because Jalen wants something. And you know, it's this parallels to like Kyrie leaving LeBron back in 2017, right?

Where it's, it's one thing to go to the finals three straight years and win a championship but Kyrie at that stage of his career felt like he needed something else for himself. And so it's not even a, oh, they don't like each other or their, their, their rivals. Like this is not a Shaq and Kobe situation. It was just more of the idea that sometimes guys need to spread their wings. That was what I heard back then. I have not heard that in a while. Um, so I don't know if people still feel that. But I bring that up just to say that when we talk about, and I think you're right, Rusello, in the past, Jason Kidd throwing that little grenade out there

might've had more impact. I think those guys are really solid now. They've been through everything, including the heartbreak of losing a finals after leading in that series two years ago. And so they're just they're more mature. They're not as vulnerable. They're not as as likely to fall for the the mind tricks or the banana in the tailpipe.

And they're steadier in the clutch. Like we can talk about how they nearly blew the lead last night. But we can also say, say no, they held on and they secured it. And you know, it happens, right? 20 point leads are nothing in this league anymore. And what I've been impressed by is that they withstand it. They might get out of themselves a little bit at times and start to rush some things or start settling for quick shots, but then it's back to ball movement, driving and kicking and finding good shots. Yeah. The clutch numbers are so stupid because if you look at their net rating now and clutch

moments or the playoffs, it's an off the charts number. It doesn't even make any, I think it's something like plus 47 or something stupid. And you go, okay, well that's a really good team where the whole point of Dallas and Luca and Kyrie, and I agreed with Bill when he said this, I think it was a couple of Sundays ago, when we're watching him take out Minnesota, it's like, this is a lot like the Yankees with Rivera where if you weren't ahead in the eighth inning, it just was over. And there's a mental part of that where you're walking around the dugout going, if we wait

until the ninth, the game's over. And that's kind of how Luca was starting to feel and Kyrie in moments as well and closing out some of these other games. And then you look at their clutch number, then you look at boss's clutch number, and you're like, oh my God, like why is everybody's on boss's case? And then we see the fourth quarter last night. I ran through all the shots that I couldn't stand, the possessions that I thought were terrible,

the fascination with running clock into bad matchups and bad shot attempts. Dallas had to have gotten one of those two. And the thing that scared Boston fans all season long has happened in two of the three games and they're still up 3-0. And I think when Dallas goes back and thinks about the series, which, you know, again, unless they're gonna do something no one's ever done before

coming back from down 3-0, it's in those moments where you're like, how was there just not a little bit more? And it was not enough time in game two, and then certainly Luke was fouling out, but I'm not assuming that Dallas would pull it off, but these are the games that have always scared Boston fans and they've happened, but in two of the three, and they're still up 3-0.

Yeah, and it applies to both sides if you're down to the last two minutes and the game is within five and you're playing the mavericks you almost expect the mavericks are going to win because luke and kyrie are just such an incredible one two punch as closers and i absolutely agree that yeah the mariano revera uh analogy is so so fitting and then the flip side of it is yeah for, for, you know, the Celtics down to the last two minutes, within a couple of points, you almost expect them to lose based on their past. But I almost feel like we're now overplaying that. Like I get that there's a long history of it. And I get that that for Celtics fans in particular, they have some PTSD over blown leads and blown series. This is a different

version of this team. They're older, more mature, they're deeper. And good Lord, they're about to, if they finish this sweep, Brasillo, they will have the third best winning percentage in the modern era. I think since the playoffs went to 16 teams, they will have the third best winning percentage in winning a championship that we've that that has happened So they will go down statistically or by win-loss in a postseason as one of the best champions of our most dominant runs of all Time now I know we'll go straight back to and our buddy our colleagues at cram did a great piece a week or so ago about Hey, is this path to the finals really as weak as it seems? And yeah, when you factored in injuries and everything else, this was one of the easier

paths to the finals. None of that matters. We're not going back and looking at what the path to the finals looked like for the Pistons back in 89 or whatever. We don't do this we just have too many tools available to us now and so we nitpick everything they're legit champions regardless and there's a legitimately dominant run regardless and maybe the dominance of this run with only two loss in the in the last however many months um maybe that should weigh more heavily than memories of blown leads past you're right. It should. And if they pull this off, which we expect they will, I don't much like when the Lakers won the bubble and people were like, oh, bubble title, but like somebody still has to win

one of these things. And it's so hard to even do it. And I think the other part of the Celtics thing, which is praise is just because Brad Stevens did a better job building his one through seven than everybody else did. That's his fault. To think of these being the seven options, the number of arguments I get into friends with about Derek White where they're like, this guy sucks, dude. And I'd be like, he doesn't, he's awesome. He's going through a weird stretch, promise you. For this guy to be a fourth or fifth option on a basketball team, like it's not supposed to happen.

You're not supposed to be able to have somebody this good in that spot, and that's what White is gonna be for this team. And he's, you know, really, his confidence is blown up and everything else, and you factor in the Drew thing, and to do this even without Perzingis if he doesn't end up coming back, although I know there was a report today saying

that he could possibly play, but I don't believe any of this stuff anymore just because I think they're all messing with each other the entire time. So you will not be, this will be this, I shouldn't ask the question this way. Do you think there will be a lot of that? Like, will you be actively pushing back if the Celtics win and people try to put it down as one of the worst titles in recent history? I don't know if we're going to see that. I mean, listen, far be it from. You sure? I know.

I was going to say. I think we're going to see it if you're looking for it. Far be it for either of us to try to predict what the hot takery machines out there will produce and the fake debates and the manufactured, you know, polarized discussions. I'm sure somebody will, because it's the world we live in. I won't spend a lot of oxygen on it. If somebody brings it up, if I'm on radio someday and somebody asks, I'll just say, listen,

dominance is dominance. If you only lose two times in the entire postseason, you were pretty freaking good. And by the way, you know, for whatever the nitpicking will be in there, you know, among the other things that people will nitpick on, they'll say, well, sure, they won the championship, but Jason Tatum, you know, presumably not going to win MVP. You know, what, you know, was this somehow a negative for Jason Tatum because of how poorly he's played in the finals?

And is he really a top five player? Like we're going to get some of that too, but again, ridiculous. I want to give credit to our colleague, Michael Pena on this one, who had a great feature on Tatum yesterday on the ringer, but we were walking back from game two, a few nights back and Pena was just, we were just talking about it because I knew he had the story coming and he said something that's like really obvious, but really important and very much lost in the discussion, which is the point is to win, right? What is it that you play to win the game? That's the point. And if Tata, your shooting can come and go. And I get it. And I can already see you smiling because this is going to be the,

this is going to be the, you're supposed to, if you're the superstar, you're supposed to bring it. I get it. Um, but it is a little akin to like Kobe just like slogging through that game seven against the Celtics in, in 2010 and Ron Artest having to hit one of the biggest shots and everything. Like sometimes it's just a slog, but you, but if we are, we're going to talk about winning players and what else you do to impact winning that's beyond your scoring or beyond your shooting. And if it involves things like defense and passing, playmaking, rebounding, just bring it on every possession

at both ends, like Tatum's a winner in that regard, right? If somebody wants to downgrade him on this series, I guess it'll happen. But if they win the championship, I think there's a case to be made for who fucking cares. He did everything else he needed to do and he had the luxury of it because he's got this really great cast around him.

That was really well said. And I always feel like, no, no, no, I feel like there's times when people are saying something that's like far more, no, no. I feel like there's times when people are saying something that's like far more similar than they realize. Um, but I guess we were on different sides of it. They're game two. I know you were there.

I was in attendance and sometimes I can get more caught up in watching somebody in a way that I know is just different. It's just a different way to consume something. And on top of the turnovers that were all bad in game one, it wasn't just the shooting. And I know the rebounding is always going to be there for him. Um, I realized he's the defensive guy as far as what they're going to put their attention towards the defense is primary concern. So when I went back and looked at his drives from those games, it's like, okay,

everybody's coming up. There's always somebody that's almost like, looks like a zone at times when he's off of the three-point line of the break Just trying to decide what he wants to do But I thought he got so frustrated with himself with maybe one of the worst dunk attempts that we've seen in playoff history There was like three or four possessions there at the end watching person. I'm like, okay, he's actually now like stuck He doesn't know what he wants to do and that beyond the assists and the carrier from game one was all kind of baked into me thinking he had an awful game that I know others but I here's here's what's funny about me is I think there are players that lose where we always have to ask what's wrong with them

when I'll watch games and go there's nothing wrong with that guy like he was awesome his team lost but we're just not allowed to do that and so so I think the other side of it, like, I just know what boss would have been like, what if they had blown that lead? What if they had blown the leading game too? You think a bunch of people will be talking about how balanced Tatum was and he was taking what they were giving them. They would have destroyed him. So he was protected by the win.

And then it kind of turned into something where I felt like, why are, like, at least with Bill and I after Sunday, maybe it was because we were both in the building, but all of this is to say, I think he's awesome. I feel like I've defended Tatum far more than I've been critical, but I'm also reasonable about who he is in comparison to the other great players in the league. And so even with a below average Tatum's average

statistical finals and say, Jaylen wins the finals MVP. I don't have to put Tatum anywhere else. Cause I was never hinting at him cracking ahead of Jokic, Luca or Janis, probably even SGA, depending on where you think Anne is, whose stock goes down with everything that happened in the West. The Embiid statistical part where I've already done my rant on that.

And then these other players players like he's just He's in that group and that's okay And sometimes that group needs to be looked at as a block instead of necessarily names in order Yeah, no, no, I agree with all that and I think that You know Just just just to grab onto one of our usual NBA cliches what we often want of superstars in this league is cliches. What we often want of superstars in this league is when it comes down to crunch time or just a big game or whatever, you can hand the ball to player X and say, go get us the win, right?

That's how we fix it for us. Right. Go right. Exactly. Everything else is fucked up. Our defense has fallen apart. Our, our, our role players are shrinking in the moment. Maybe your co-star is shrinking in the moment, whatever. Kobe, go win us the game, Michael, go win us the game. And that's the model or the framework that we view superstardom through in this league. And it's fair, that standard is there and it exists historically because we've had players who have met that definition more often than not.

And I think it's a fair question to say, is Tatum that guy? Is Tatum the guy is Tatum the guy is he a star of a certain caliber of maybe whatever tier however you want to deal like I like that when Seth part now does the tiers for the athletic as opposed to just like a straight ranking right because guys exist in groupings more than they do in a clean order. Is Tatum somewhere just slightly on the outside of that? Like, yes, perennially, one of the best players in the league, perennial all NBA, one of the best forwards in the league,

one of the best players in the league. But maybe not the guy who you say, shit, this game is slipping away. Tatum, go fix it. Maybe he's not that, but also by the way, he's still young enough to become that. And then that's the other problem. What we get into is that we make these snap judgments and say, well, this guy's never going to be. It's just like with, with Luca and I like, is he never going to be a good to great defender? I don't know. Maybe he gets into better shape and maybe he decides to date a kid himself. Maybe he matures a little bit and, and embraces those things. Like there's a lot of career left for Luca Doncic for us to just, you know, decide, oh, he's not going to be able to do these things.

Steph Curry became a better defender over the course of their dynasty. And you know, Jokic for that matter became better over the course of his time, even after becoming MVP. So we do need to allow a little bit of room for guys to grow too. Yeah. And I just think kind of some of the stuff that I was sitting in the open is sometimes maybe we'll have this rare finals result where it's like, yeah, everybody's kind of just where they're supposed to be.

But that's not how it's gonna be the few days after. That's just not the way it's gonna go. Maybe. Am I getting pushback? Am I getting pushback? Again, far be it for me to try to predict how the take machines will fly off the handle after this finals is over. But I don't think when all is said and done that the end result here, whether it's a sweep, whether it's a five game gentlemen sweep, whatever it ends up as, it's definitely, you know,

barring the, you know, miracle comeback. I don't think anything in this series should be seen as the indictment of Luca or of Luca and Kyrie or of the Mavericks. It's like they weren't even expected to be here. The Mavericks themselves, I think if they were being honest, did not expect to be here this soon. And that doesn't mean it's moral victories and all that. It's just that this team made great strides. They made some really smart moves at the deadline. By the way, moves that weren't all that popular at the time. A lot of people were killing them for the Gaffer to Washington.

Oh, they gave up too much. Are these guys really going to move the needle? The front office did a great job. The players have done a great job. Jason Kidd's done, I think, a pretty good job. If they're going to get shots taken at them because they lost in a sweep or something, I mean, okay, I get it,

but the Celtics always had the better personnel, the more complete team. They were expected to be here from day one all the way through win 64 of the regular season. The Mavericks were not. There is no shame in them losing this one. This is step one for a young team. Yeah, we're on the same page.

Okay, a couple of things that I wanna talk about here. I wanna get to your Jerry West piece shame in them losing this one. This is step one for a young team. Yeah, we're on the same page. Okay. A couple of things that I want to talk about here. Um, I want to get to your Jerry West piece that you had this morning. Some of that you've known a long time. I got to interview him a couple of times. Always appreciated it. Jerry West passing this week at the age of 86, but before we finish there, uh, let's stay on the franchise.

He's best known for the Lakers where this coaching thing has been weird now for, well, I guess we're on week two of this. Just do whatever you want on this. This is more your world than it is mine. I mean, you're somebody that reports on the league, so I don't know if there's sore stuff you can or can't tell us, but just take it wherever you want to go, Howard. I talked to somebody yesterday from another team

who I just said, so, I don't know, what are you making this and that? Cause I don't know what the hell to make anymore. And he basically just said, it's embarrassing. It's embarrassing. They don't seem to have a clear vision for what they want. You and I are speaking here on June 13th. We are near the end of the finals,

weeks away from the draft, weeks away from free agency. They don't have a coach in place. Nah, it's not the end of the world. Like, you know, your front office is a little more important than your coach when it comes to the draft and free agency. But you kind of want to have everybody in place and on the same page and talk about what kind of players you need and what that coach himself might need.

So we're late in the going. The other thing that, again, this rival GM said yesterday was basically, you know, cause they're interviewing some of the same guys in Cleveland and LA, like that Cleveland's the better job. Like that's an indictment there too. And that's not, by the way, I don't say that as shade at Cleveland.

Cleveland's got a younger, more well-rounded roster. And yeah, I think they've got some overlap and they got to figure out Mitchell versus Garland, they got to figure out Allen and Mobley and all that. But they've got plenty of options, um, to work with that. And they've got a longer road because they're not built around a soon to be 40 year old star. Um, so that it's, it's objectively the better job. But that's not something you want to hear in this league when you're

the Lakers and you know that you they have the self image that you do. So yes, it is been one of the weirder coaching searches I've seen in terms of the way it's played out publicly. I don't know what to make of the Hurley flirtation that seems kind of 11th hour. And now we're right back to JJ Reddick is the leading candidate, which was what we'd been hearing for weeks before the Hurley flirtation. So it's strange.

I don't think any of it looks good for the Lakers. And you know, all that said, hey, if they get the right coach, whether it's JJ, whether it's James Borrego, whether it's whoever's behind curtain number three, if that person, you know, finds a way to get more out of this roster, I guess will, you know, this will all just be a distant memory. But as of right now, I don't think it looks great. Okay. Jerry West, he went to nine finals, one title, the only player to win finals MVP on the losing side in 1969, which I think is actually one of the most fitting ways of understanding Jerry

West because I only knew what my father had told me and then going back and looking at the numbers and being in awe of the playoff totals and the averages. And you're like, Oh my God. And then lucky enough to meet them through the ESPN stuff. And then when he promoted his book, uh, I checked it out. It was tough. It was tough to read. Um, there was a lot of pain in there and he talked about it so openly at the end

of his life where that's why I always think about that finals MVP. I'm like, that's like almost the perfect way because it's like the pain and yet the appreciation all at the same time. And I remember the chapters that he would talk about like losing the Celtics. I mean, think about losing this team in 62, 63, 65, 66, 68, and 69, three of those series, seven game series, and he can't get over it.

They lose to the Knicks in 70, then he wins in 72, and they lose to the Knicks in 73. You spent a lot of time with him. I don't know that he was complicated once we figured out why he was complicated, but what was your relationship with him like and kind of the learning experience it was for you once you get to know a guy like Jerry West? Yeah, and I'll just say off the top,

a lot of people knew him much better than I did. I started covering the Lakers in the 97, 98 season, and by then, Jerry had already started to recede a little bit into the background, wasn't as available or as around as he used to be. And I'll be honest, I didn't put this in the piece that's up on the ringer today. I think I used the word intimidating at one point, but I didn't make it that much of a personal column. It was more just kind of like snapshots and certain memories of certain interviews with him. But Priscilla, I don't mind telling you

or telling the audience, I have never been more intimidated by anybody in my career as a journalist. I've been at this for 30 years or so, 27 on the NBA. There are other people I was kind of in awe of. Like I was in the same room with Bill Russell a few times. I was like, oh God, I really would love to meet Bill Russell. But like, I just was respecting his space more than anything.

But there's an aura around Bill Russell that is just palpable. And I've interviewed Kareem a few times and I always had a little bit of a thing with Kareem too. It's just like, you know, these guys who are simultaneously larger than life figuratively and literally, right? But nobody made me nervous. No matter how many times I had talked to him, nobody made me more nervous than Jerry West. I'd like, I had to like psych myself up to make the phone call

sometimes or to go walk over, even though I talked to him a bunch of times. Part of it is Jerry West's own aura. And it's not just because he's the logo or Mr. Clutch or anything. It's just, there's just something about the man. The guy has an aura, but also, yes, he also has a bit of a temper

and he can be a little bit dicey sometimes and those conversations can go any number of directions. And all of us in the media who dealt with him over the years, we all have our stories and many of them are up on the interwebs today about being cussed out by him. And it's kind of a badge of honor, kind of like it was when, you know, getting cussed out by David Stern. But it's just because he was so passionate about everything. Sometimes it's a negative passion, sometimes it's just because he was so passionate about everything. So it's just a negative passion. So this is a positive passion, but Jerry West cared deeply about the game, about whatever

team he was running about legacy. Uh, I don't mean legacy in the flimsy sense that we use it in talk show debates. Now I mean like, you know, true legacy of, of, of his own, of the people that he brought along as that he mentored, that he advised. You would not believe, like, I don't even, I won't believe, cause I don't know all the names. I just know that there are countless stars over the years who were not playing on Jerry West teams,

who would seek out his counsel. And that makes other GMs very uncomfortable for obvious reasons. But he stayed connected to the game in a way that think about this. He dies yesterday at 86. How many people who were playing in the sixties still had enough of a, of an attachment to the game and a gravitas and an understanding of today's game and today's players at that age.

Normally it's like, Oh, that guy, Oh, that's's that's some guy from the black and white era, right? Like that's a guy that's, you know, that's a guy's in a couple of grainy YouTube videos. Jerry was never some relic of the past. Jerry was always in the present. And part of it's because he stayed working in the league, but it's partially because he was still so sharp and embraced the changes to the game. He wasn't one of these guys sitting around going, Oh, we're shooting too many threes or Oh, damn analytics. Um, and he, he, he stayed relevant because he, he cared that deeply about the game. Um, I was going through some old notes for CILO and I didn't get this in the column and I kind of wish I had now, but I described this scene the morning after the 2000 championship where I walked into his office, which in itself is mind blowing to think about, oh my God, I walked into Jerry West's office by myself, had a one-on-one with him the morning after they won the championship in 2000.

This would never happen today. And he's just grim. The lights are down and he's not enjoying it at all. But one of the quotes that I did not resurface for this piece today was that he says something about like, all I care about is winning and it's a sickness. He used that word sickness and I think he's used that in other places too and he might have put it in his book. And then he mentioned how Christina Rice, Glenn Rice's wife, do you remember this? There was the whole, Glenn Rice's wife, I think she talked to Plaschke in the middle of the series ripping Phil Jackson for not getting Glen Rice enough shots.

Ridiculous. And again, things that don't happen today that were kind of fun back in the day. And Jerry says, he goes, she said something, he goes that I think she meant as a criticism, but I really, I actually really liked it. He said, you know, all that team cares about is winning or something like all the Lakers care about is winning. And he's like, he basically said, like if he goes, well, long after we're gone, it's like, that's what they say about me or about the Lakers that allakers care about is winning. And he basically said, long after we're gone, if that's what they say about me or about the Lakers, that all we care about is winning,

like that's pretty great. That was him. All he cared about was winning. And unfortunately for Jerry, he cared about it so deeply that I think it really ate him up in good times and bad. It was never enough. And it's not until the autobiography that we learned why some of those demons were there. Yeah. I mean when he would talk about his hatred for the Celtics because of coming up short, I mean, you're basically like, Hey, you get in the league, you get in at 61 and now you're going to spend the next decade losing to them in the finals and getting so close.

And the couple that they obviously think should have gone their way. And you're right, it helps you understand, like here's this player, one of the best in the world, and he hates every minute of it because he cares about winning so much and they're getting so close. And it gave me a much better understanding of him. Granted, a guy far before my time,

I would hear my father talking about him all the time, like going, that guy, you know, he, my father grew up a huge Celtics fan. So it was, I could always tell when he would talk about West, this just feeling that he would have that was very different than other players that he'd be rooting against or something like that. It was just like Jerry West,

now let me sit down and let me tell you a story. And then to get to know him, again, I should rephrase that. I did not get to know him. I interviewed him a few times, said hello, whatever. And that's what's kind of funny is when we describe him this way, he was actually a very available person. If you wanted to talk about basketball,

you just love talking about basketball. Like the number of times I remember one show was like, Hey, we get a number for Jerry West. We call him. And I was like, do we do that? We call, we just call Jerry West. Like are we, I don't think we're allowed to do that. And then next thing you know, he's like on later that afternoon. So he was definitely somebody that, I'm just glad to read all these pieces about him. Cause I would never, it's kind of like one of our original points.

I would hate for us to be on TV in the 1960s going, what's wrong with Jerry West? Because he's coming up short. Can you imagine? Yeah, that's what we would have done. Like hey, what does he need to do this offseason? Does he need to work in his post game? And there's some players that lose that we do have a lot of justification of wondering what they're doing wrong, but with

West, that's just not the case. No, and you know, Adam Silver has said many times in his time as commissioner that one of the wonderful things about running this league or being around this league is that I'll miss, I'm going to get his quote wrong, but Adam would basically say like, our, you know, our history is still with us, right? Our history walks among us. Like Bill Russell was still around when Adam first took over as commissioner and he had become very close to Bill Russell and Oscar Robertson was still around.

Jerry West was still around. Elgin Baylor Bill Russell and Oscar Robertson was still around. Jerry West was still around. Elgin Baylor at that time, I think, was still around. And so the history of the NBA, because it's a younger league, you could talk about these guys that formed the league, basically, or that made the league what it is today and who fill the record books and who are our reference points, our modern day reference points for what greatness has always been.

And they're right there. You can reach out and touch them. You can talk to them. You can interview them. reference points, our modern day reference points for what greatness has always been. And they're right there. You can reach out and touch them. You can talk to them. You can interview them. And that history was always with us. And in the last week or so, we've lost Bill Walton and now Jerry West, obviously Bill Russell a year or so ago.

Was that two years ago now? And it's, look, I mean, this is the march of time. We can't do anything about it, but you feel it. You feel it now because there are very few guys who connect. I was just saying, here was Jerry in his 80s, a guy from the, you know, the earliest days of the NBA, almost the earliest days of the NBA, who was still talking and counseling and mentoring today's players. There just aren't that many around anymore.

Selfishly, it hurts just to kind of lose these guys too as a resource and as a vision into the past because when they're gone, they're gone. And you know, some of those stories are on paper somewhere in a book or in other stories. But Jerry was so available and in a way that was way beyond most of the other guys we'd talk about from that era because he was in great health. He was still working in the league. He loves, as you said, Rossello, he loved to talk about the game and what a privilege it was for all of us and how much we all benefited in our readers and our listeners benefited

from having that perspective and that insight into the past and the ability we do these these these dumb comparisons across the areas where we're just talking out of our asses because we don't really know like we do our best to figure out what it meant to do this in the sixties versus the nineties or the two thousands. But Jerry West actually knows because he saw it all. And that's what we're losing, you know, as, as, as, as a Jerry West or others, you know, leave us. or others leave us. I just thought that was an interesting note and credit to my buddy Bill Orum at the Oregonian because we had a conversation about an hour before you and I got on where we were talking about this and he made this point very poignantly to me and I wanted to make sure to make that point myself. Yeah, the piece is really good and kind of digs into some of him moving on from the Lakers,

but never really looking at it any differently. There's a couple of anecdotes in there that I'm not going to share because I want people to read the piece that are really terrific. So Howard, thanks for the time. Enjoy the rest of the finals, depending on how much we have and free agency. I'm sure we'll check it again. Thanks, man. Appreciate it.

Thanks, Ursillo. Good seeing you. You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari. 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork.

I have every toy you can possibly imagine. And best of all kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. The email address is lifeadv rr at gmail.com What's up the Alliance though? Let's go boys gotta lead with that It was actually relatively sweat-free too, you know like Tatum hit pretty early Luca had like three assists in the third quarter Jaelin had a huge third quarter took us over and then the Celtics were,

and that was really the only thing was if the Celtics were going to lose that game. So pretty nice for the boys. Okay. Kyle, how are you? You look fresh. You get haircut. You get them all cut. Ha. Yes. Got a haircut. Thank you. First time I heard that I left long time ago though. Okay. Uh, Long time ago though. Okay. Uh,

little feedback. Um, Ryan, you said you had the best Mexican food of your life in Glastonbury. True story. I live in Niantic, Connecticut. All right. I need the name of that restaurant to check it out. No one loves tacos and tequila more than me.

So let me know. Uh, let me in on this gym. All right. It's Salya Lita. Uh, how often do you go Saruti? Well, it's hard to get into, man. They don't take reservations. It's not a big place. It's basically just like an old house and you can wait for two hours there if you don't go at the right time. So I try to get there every couple of months, but it's hard. It's hard. There's a famous story. I think it was some local news person asked Danny Hurley after like a two o'clock game

Like what he was doing that afternoon. He was like, oh, there's this little taco place in glass break called cellulite I'll be there and it was like it's on the map now and people know about it But yeah, it's excellent Was it his daughter that did an Instagram post instead of the reason why he didn't take the Lakers job? Ultimately is because they didn't want to not be able to go to Salilita. I think so, which is incredible. Cause like there's not, there's not, there's better tacos in Glastonbury, Connecticut than there are in Los Angeles. True story. Well, trust me, whenever I say it, people are enraged and I completely understand.

I completely understand, but it's the best Mexican food I've ever had in my life. And I can say, oh, you went to Mexico City? Like, yeah, dude, but I mean, how many days in a row can you do street tacos? You're like, hey, this is really good. This is fresh, this is great ingredients. I'd like to open one in Manhattan Beach

and then maybe early would have taken the Lakers job. So I don't want to do that to Yukon fans. San Diego people get the most upset when you say you found good taco somewhere I think it's just one of their three things that they have I'm not sure what the other two are but they really They really put the yeah sure but like that it's in their Mount Rushmore and they need everyone to know Okay

Yeah Somebody's mad right now listening Don't know to to tell you. The place is. A taco is a city power ranking next episode. Yeah, the place is incredible. Okay, this one's titled AIDS. That got the attention of our screening process.

Has nothing to do with that. Although I don't know, Kyle, do people live in fear of AIDS? Your generation, the way my generation kind of walked around. I feel like I was still in elementary school, which probably didn't have anything to worry about at that time. But I do remember that was in the discourse, I think. Well, it got my attention,

but it has nothing to do with this, so I'm glad, because I don't think I would have read it. That's tough. What's up 21, five four, 125, can't bench 100 pounds, but I run a 15 minute 5K, the trade off is not worth it. 100 pounds, damn. Have you tried to bench 100 pounds? I don't know.

Now with the title and that he, five four, 125, maybe. All right, well this makes sense because he wants to live in a van I have six credits left of college to finish from starting to plan for what to do afterwards I got a full-time job recently Which is remote 70,000 for software engineering and I thought it'd be fun to travel to all the national parks in a van while I'm In my early 20s I also thought it'd be a fun way to pass time and learn some useful skills to renovate a beater of a van from Facebook

be a fun way to pass time and learn some useful skills to renovate a beater of a van from Facebook Marketplace when I'm not busy with school, work, or sports. Cross country. All right, this guy does run, he flies. The problem is I have zero experience with any building or electricity or plumbing or whatever goes into renovating a van. I've seen some videos on YouTube of people doing it,

but it looks very complicated. I'm eager to learn, but I'm kind of a dumb ass. I don't want to spend a couple thousand dollars on a van and whatever tools I would need to realize that I'm severely under qualified and can't do it. Since y'all seem more experienced with this stuff, would it be feasible to go from zero experience to renovating a van?

How much would I have to spend on tools to get it done? Is van life by yourself in your early 20s a dumb idea and investment in general? Also, I do not have a car. Should I buy one before this? Maybe start with a vehicle. Oh man. I'd get my dad on the pod for this one.

He would have all the answers. I don't know. It's, I mean, look, the way you, the way you framed it out, pun, uh, this sounds like a bad idea. I have no experience doing any of these things, but I want to do it Yeah, I will say probe anything is over saturated What? van bubble

Well, there's just too many people when I scroll on my Instagram tick-tock whatever on YouTube better just doing the van thing So I don't care if you do it if you want to do it go for it I just don't I don't think you need to be like a, you know, a vlogger because there's just too many of those already. But whenever I say it, it sounds like vans are in your algorithm. Sounds like you're watching a lot of van stuff, buddy. Maybe I am too. I am. Maybe you're too close to this subject.

Well, you know how you like get the stuff in your feed that you don't really want. Like I've got, I got a bunch of like gnarly accident videos and I'm like, what is, why now they're all in my feed. You stop for one second and then they're like yeah he's a big accident guy so that's where I'm at but I had a big band thing for a while and those things some of them are like really nice you know I'd imagine I don't know maybe the YouTube money is probably pretty good if you're doing that but it's again it seemed kind of late to the party so I don't know anything about renovating them I'd

imagine if you have zero skill it's gonna be a big problem starting from zero. Can you just like do an Airbnb thing? Like I had a buddy that just kind of traveled to a bunch of different cities when he got out of college, didn't have a van, he just Airbnb'd. And you know, he didn't spend a ton of money on housing and stuff and just figured out what city he wanted to live in and that's what he did.

Why can't you just do that? Yeah, I mean, we're definitely a pro bet on yourself podcast, but this seems like it might take years, and then you might not complete it. That's what, if we're doing an alliance on this, my pick is going to be like, you give up on this after several years, and then you've got a half-completed band that might not even

be done correctly. And I think it'll just be like a story, where people ask me, how are those rabbits doing? Huh? You hating your life? They're going to be like, how's the van guy doing great? And you're the guy with the money fit van. You're sitting in your parents' driveway for two years.

You're spending your Saturdays just scratching your head, trying to figure out what this part is that you need to find or how to get to it. That happened to me. I inherited a riding tractor mower because I was like, yeah, I'm going to do this in the backyard. It's going to be awesome. Belt popped. That thing's been in my shed for like two years. I think I'm fixing that thing. Nope I didn't realize we had such a great van resource though

So you're on the show? Yeah You said something that I think kind of confirms it for me that you shouldn't do this is I don't know how to do any Electrical I don't know how to do any electrical. I don't know how to do any plumbing. I only did framing and some flooring shingles, roofing. Anybody can do roofing. I wouldn't say, well, shingles, you just kind of have to have an eye for it. Um, decks. I was great, but there were things I would look at and be like, I have

no idea what's going on there. Okay. And I think I was pretty handy at one point because I was able to do some of those things. But it's a bit like a foreign language where then I have the tools and I thought it was cool to have like tools. I bought a circular saw when I was in Connecticut, because I was like, oh, this is the bright one to get. I'm like, you're never using this. That's what men do. Yeah. Yeah. What are you going to do? Build a deck.

Like you don't even, you don't even have any land. You know, get some land first circular saw guy. So the reason I, I, there was a couple of things that I would do later on far removed from that point in my life where I was like, man, your skills are, uh, your skills are a little diminished here. And if you have zero going into this and you're admitting that you're kind of a dumb ass with this stuff, like this takes incredible patience.

And I wouldn't say like an engineer's mind, like you could probably figure it out, but I'm doing a poor job of explaining this. I think it's like the guy in your group that you just don't trust to hold something versus the guy that you do, right? Where do you have a habit of just breaking shit? Do you have a habit of somebody lends you something and then you're returning it damaged I just think that there are people whether it's caring about other people's property

Respecting the property or sometimes even just respecting or caring about the condition of their own property. I Think you have to be wired in a way that gives you an advantage going into this so blindly. And if you, I don't know, as simple as do you fall down, you know, am I making any sense here? Here's, here's a perfect example. When you leave your apartment with your suitcase, do you always fucking

smack it into something and leave a mark like Chip and Nick, so Rudy days. Or do you go, okay, let me get the right angle. Let me take my steps patiently and let me make sure I don't smash my suitcase into my walls. Here's another example. I had a friend staying with me and I set him up in the guest room. There was a little Ottoman deal in the corner and he put down a suitcase and he opened up the top of it and he just flapped it right open and it dented both corners of the sheetrock. He was there 30 seconds and I was like, dude, you probably could have been a little bit more delicate about that. So my fear is if you're in that lane of person, you're never going to figure out any of this stuff.

You're going to think you did. You're going to get the plumbing going. You're going to watch some YouTube videos. You're going to be bonding the seams and you're going to be like, oh my God, like I'm figuring this out. I'm going to say this one goes here and we're going to use a little gravity out. The second the plumbing isn't right in a van that you're

living in, that's going to be a tough, tough hang. What's that smell? Actually, it might be over. Yeah, so I like the idea that at 5'4", 125, you're gonna have plenty of room in there if you're able to pull this off, but there are two very distinct groups of people and the people that are constantly breaking shit around

their house or just clumsy with things. It's not that they're disrespectful of specific items, but they don't think of the care part of it. If you're somebody like that, I don't know if you'll have the mind to do this in a way where you'll figure it out and you'll be rewarded for all the time and effort and the money that'll go in to buying the tools and for all the supplies on top of everything else. It sounds like you're signing yourself up for a massive time headache, financial headache,

and a minor disappointment. I'm not going to say it leads to full blown depression, but at the end of it you're going to be like, I'm incapable. So why confirm it? Yeah, I'm all for dudes making bad investments in their 20s. It's just a bad bet, but I just don't think, I don't know if this one's gonna cash in. You know what I mean?

It's not like buying, what did you say? You bought a bunch of patio furniture for your condo or whatever. Connecticut. This was silly. I'm down four grand for this fire pit. I've used it twice. At least you can go out there and you can sit there by yourself if you want But like I like this right the first night this thing needs to go you're the septic you said needs to work

Although he's what did you say five four one twenty five? He's probably not doing a ton of damage to septic But I mean like I think dude guys still have to go. Yeah, but it's mild, right? No one's worried you'd be worried if I go in there and be like, Hey, listen, I just, I'm sorry. But anyway, I think I just don't think this one, I don't think you're going to cash this one in and it'll be, it'll be a headache. It's not like a big TV that you just, you know, I'll put this $3,000 TV on layaway. I'll have the best Superbowl party. Like that's at least there's something you could say you got out of it. This, I think you're just going to be very frustrated. And I don't know, do you even have a spot to store this?

Then you're gonna maybe try to be unloading it. I hate to sound down, but I just don't think, I at least want you to have fun one time with it. And I don't think you'll have fun one time with it. Yeah, I think it's this, I'll bring up too many reels and TikToks that I watch. There's always the people that wanna be the DIY home people and they're like, hey, I'll go to Ikea

and I'll buy all these built-ins and I'll just install them and I caulk them and I do all this stuff. Or I'm gonna, you know what, I want new countertops and I'm gonna paint them instead of putting in the actual new granite ones because it'll save me money. And it's always a bad idea and in the comments, the actual construction guys are like,

yeah, that's gonna peel off in six months. And I just feel like people think they can do more things now because they see people doing them on the internet and the van Thing like it's like oh, yeah, that'll be super fun I'll just go to all these parks and like I'll build this van and they don't actually realize how much of a pain the like Like even like pools like people are like, oh, I love pools Like you know which work pools are, you know, and people just don't think about that They just think about the fun parts of it

So I think you got to consider just how this might be a huge pain in the ass And even though you're going to see some parks, you might not have that much funnel on the ride. Our van remodels the podcast of the automotive industry. Basically boats, dude. Sorry. No, I don't take offense to that. I, uh, I think you're absolutely right. So Rudy, that it's, it's kind of great that people are maybe

thinking they can do more stuff, but there's a difference between redoing your cabinets and actually redoing your cabinets. Yeah, like putting flooring in. I've just seen people paint. Like everybody's like, I'll just grab some brushes and then I'll grab some paint. It's like, I'll figure this out and they kind of think they killed it. And then anybody that actually knows how to paint any contractor would look at it and go, oh my God. Like, what the fuck is this?

I give them three months. Yeah, right. Okay. We did do this one before. Go ahead, what did you have? Obviously, we were just super negative there. I'm not trying to kill anyone's dream, but just trying to be realistic.

I think we did him a favor. If he takes our advice. Not what you want to hear, but sometimes what you have to hear. Did we do this one about the full frontal on the work Zoom call? I think we did. I don't know. I feel like that would ring a bell. And unless it already happened to a very famous dude

at CNN, I don't think this is the first time I heard it. It's not from him. Yeah. So I guess I'll read it again. I think we did because I remember the shout um, the shout out that she gave, cause she was a big Michael Porter Jr. fan, uh, because she played hoops. Yeah.

She played hoops in college. So here's what she sent us months ago. Work for a mid-sized company in New York city with this company. I work closely with a team about 20, about two weeks ago in an internal zoom meeting with 12 people. One of my coworkers will say, Mark was talking to my boss about a project we're working on. Is there a discussion discussing the project?

A guy who is new-ish here, we'll call him Ken, 45 years old, I guess somehow accidentally turns on his camera. Now everyone can see Ken is completely naked with his dick right in view of the camera. To make it worse, the camera is facing his bed and in the distance there's a naked woman in the bed. So we're all looking close up at this view. Is that worse? Yeah, what's that? I don't think that's worse. I think he's got a better alibi than before. Yeah, at least it's an excuse. I don't know, like just being naked for no reason.

But anyway. Interesting. I hadn't thought of it that way. Does it make it better? She had written the email and said, and to make things slightly better, I don't think anybody would ever write it that way. So, but to improve the situation, at least, that's what the total loss is. Yeah, yeah, I don't, I don't, I think I'm agreeing with the email and her version of storytelling here.

So we're all looking at a closeup of Ken's genitals and a woman off in the background in the bed. I know Ken is divorced. Mark who was talking, stopped mid sentence and said, what the hell is going on here? After about 30 seconds of discomfort, my boss goes, Ken, please turn off your camera. Ken turns his camera off, then turns his mic on and says, sorry about that guys. What are you supposed to do? I mean, you have to leave your job in that situation.

You can't be there anymore. Unless like, it's really impressive and then you could probably stay. But like, Hey, anyone have any questions? I don't want to read into it that much, but that, that woman in the background looked very satisfied. What can I just ask before we move any further, what kind of angle do you need to have? This thing's already a mess, I'm sorry.

What are you asking? What kind of zoom angle do you need to have to see your crotch and your face? Or maybe it wasn't even, maybe his face wasn't even there, right? Cause I mean, what kind of background, what kind of angle would you have to have to be sitting at your computer and I could see both, you know, your head and standing, I guess.

What if he's standing and she's off to the side? It could be. You're right. It could be. Uh, I don't know. Maybe, maybe his face wasn't in there and he's just got deniability. He's like, I don't know. I'm hacked. What if he says all my kids are messing around with the backgrounds again? What if he says, Oh, my kids are messing around with the backgrounds again. We're pretty liberal family. We're laid back about all this stuff. Okay.

I love the commentary. Ken, please turn off your camera. Sorry about that guys. The meeting continued and ended at its regularly scheduled time to end. The next day, Mark sent an email to our boss and copied HR saying he no longer wants to work on projects with Ken because he quote, showed up to an online meeting fully naked

with another person in the background. Our boss emailed back and said he and HR are looking at the incident and will decide how to proceed. Since this everything has been business as usual. Side note, one of our other coworkers was on the call and said he didn't know what was going on. He just thought it was quote, a finger in some hair.

I am one of the, I don't think we, why is the Michael Porter Jr. thing making me think we read it? And then now I, that line. I think. Yeah. A finger in some hair.

Kyle would've tried to do that. I am one of the few girls in my office and on my team. I work in a male dominated field. My seat in the office is very close to Ken. Since the incident, I don't feel comfortable being around him or speaking to him. Our first interaction since it happened, I saw him in the hallway.

He said, sup boss, and reach out to give me knuckles. Ken's doing fine. Ken's, this guy's. sup boss and reach out to give me knuckles. Ken's doing fine. Ken's guys. He's not. I got to tell you, there are times in life like maybe the ultimate goal is to be unfaithful. Ken has reached it. Sup boss.

I responded by saying nothing and practically slamming myself on the wall and attempt to dodge him in his hand. My question is showing a full frontal on Zoom is absurd, shouldn't can be fired, should I reach out to HR as well, or just ask for my seat to be moved if it's two plus weeks? Why is my company not acknowledging this? God, knowing how things go, I'm surprised you didn't just ask for a promotion

and you would have gotten it. You definitely could have asked for your seat to be moved. That's a no-brainer. I mean, you basically, on the sub-boss knuckles exchange, that you definitely could have asked for your seat to be moved. That's a no brainer. I mean, you basically on the sub boss knuckles exchange kind of let them know with body language that you weren't exactly down to be his friend. So she sent us an update.

After four long and uncomfortable months, our work flashers finally been fired. He was not fired for the obvious reason of the flashing incident. He was fired because he did not show up to work on Monday. He was not fired for the obvious reason of the flashing incident. He was fired because he did not show up to work on Monday. He told some coworkers and our boss, he had a funeral. My boss was skeptical because it was flaky attendance in the past.

My boss had IT look into his computer log hours. As it turns out, he had a golf outing on his outlook calendar. To make it even worse when he came in the day after, he told people about how sad the funeral was. Unfasable. You know, I, there was like a 1% of me that wanted to be like, all right, like Ken was naked on the zoom.

He may be fucked up. Maybe he's not. Like is he the automatically the worst dude in the world if he screwed up? Clearly he's a little bit weird, but now that's gone. All right. This guy sucks. It's gone. I think I just wanted to read that.

There's not really anything else to add. So we should do one more. Speaking of a golf outing. All right. Sup boys, five 10 no impressive gym stats, but a four and two amateur jujitsu record. Look out. Let's get to the chase.

My office was out yesterday for golf outings. It's a small business. What if this guy's Kent? I recently got fired. Yeah. He chimes in, he's like four, well, no. Everyone's so sensitive today. I don't know what to be doing.

275, 315, dead left, did show my dick on a Zoom at work once. Yeah. All right. Small business, we had to go to two separate outings because they were mistakenly scheduled for the same day with me being the newest guy. By the way, how about the Pat's Hall of Fame induction ceremony during the NBA finals?

Should Wick have issue with the Kraft family? Did you not believe in us to schedule this during the NBA finals? All right. Just a question. Yeah, I thought there could have been a bad day. I agree. Yeah. I have friends who was like, what's going on with Brady? Wait, how about this?

Yesterday was 612. Do you think that has something to do with it? The statue is going to be 12 feet, Kyle. When are you going to go visit it? Probably the first time I set foot in Massachusetts. So that'd be cool. I think that's a great use of time. Okay. All right.

So we had to go to two separate outings because they're mistakenly scheduled for the same day So that'd be cool. I think that's a great use of time. Okay, all right. So we had to go to two separate outings because they're mistakenly scheduled for the same day. With me being the newest guy in the office at 15, five guys that can golf, meant that I went with the other salesman who golfs the least of all of us and went to the lesser golf event.

The other salesman in question, let's call him Dave, mid-40s, burn along his buddies from high school, round goes fine, we're smoking, we're drinking, little smoking, little drinking. We used most of my balls in the scramble, he said in parentheses. Though I was clearly the fourth weir or the throuple the whole time,

and when we got to the 12th hole of our round, the three of them mentioned they have to go to various practices for the kids, so we should leave early. Not wanting to play by myself for six holes in the middle of a log jam, I also left. Now I come in this morning to greet my project manager and she asks, how was the round? To which I reply with the previous. She then gets pretty upset and informs me I should have to tell the CEO of our small company what happened. Turns out the golf ball sponsors of the event were expected, turns out the golf ball sponsors of the event were expected to stay for the dinner after,

not communicated to me. That on top of leaving early of an expensive outing for the business was not seen as kosher to say the least. As much as I could throw this dude under the bus, I don't think it's really necessary. I feel I can say the round went well and my boss wouldn't care to move on. Though my project manager clearly thinks differently. What should I do and do the boys have any company golf outing stories to share with Saruti using his high school golf experience to hustle some ESPN execs? You want to take that last one first Saruti? No, definitely not. I played in the ESPN tournament a couple of times, but nothing, there was nothing crazy.

I'm trying to think of which execs would even invite you to golf. Yikes. Ouch. Uh, I'm just being realistic. Well, I'm not, I don't know. I mean, I didn't really try to think what, Hey, I know how the voice operates like off with Scrooty. No, not because of you or your personality, but just like the fact

that somebody high up would be like, you know what, who's working behind the glass today that I can golf with that's not 30 yet? Yeah, they're trying to golf with JJ Reddick, not me. It sounds better when you explain it, but we'll always have the clip. Sorry. Okay.

They heard a little bit. Look, I think there's a couple people, they got like three contracts out of that place just because they played at Avon. Smart thing to do. If I could do it all over again, just join Avon. Probably not though. Okay. So here's my main concern. If the project manager freaked on you about a potential CEO freak out, you have to tell the CEO now. You can, you definitely can't lie and say everything was fine. So my guess would be, no, I don't know. I don't know how everybody's different with this kind of stuff.

You're supposed to go to the dinner after, but nobody told you. The problem is, is now somebody else knows what happened and it's going to get around. And sometimes people love just sharing stuff. It's not because they're evil, but it's this like, oh, hey, I get the bitch about a coworker right now and it's somebody underneath me. It's like, oh, did you hear what Brad and the guys did at the golf outing? They left early.

You know, so now she's getting the first word in, she's getting the opening statement and the closing statement before you even addressed it. So I know the easier thing is like, why even put yourself out there, but there's a mole now. There's a mole. And if she was upset, that means she thinks it's important. And that means she's probably at some point going to share it, whether it's like a direct thing, or it's just going to come up at some point down the road. And so you could maybe save yourself by never saying anything, but if you lie, then it becomes way worse with the whole deal. So maybe you can find like a casual setting if it's a small business, maybe the next work trip. I don't know if you're at the hotel Marriott, just

experiencing life together. You say, Hey dude, I don't know if you heard, but I kind of wanted to explain what happened to this golf outing. And now that I see, like I can see where I'm set, but you have to understand like my intent or the things that I did not intend. And by the way, nobody even told me there was a dinner after the fact. And so I was just playing by myself and I was kind of in everybody's way. So because I golf, I was like, like well I don't want to do this and it would never mean that I was ever doing it not appreciating what you were doing

or being disrespectful it still may not work or he may not care but I still feel like those two avenues are way better outcomes than you certainly ignoring it and worse than that lying lying about what happened. Well, where everyone in his foursome was working for the company or there, didn't he say something about high school buddies or are they the high school buddies that also work for the company? Like, was there any outside guy in this group? Yeah, see, there's one salesman and then he brought his buddies from high school. So that means, yeah. So he doesn't want to throw them under the bus.

Kyle, there you go. Salt. I hear it. Thinking about the other guy. You've got a couple options here. A you say nothing, which you're saying maybe, maybe would hurt you in the long run. Um, B if you do try to say, which what I was going

to suggest was saying, listen, like, I didn't even know we were allowed to still play. I thought we needed to have our, our full thing. And, you know, I just, I left because I thought it was, it seemed like the only thing that was going to suggest was saying, listen, like, I didn't even know we were allowed to still play. I thought we needed to have our full thing. And, you know, I just, I left because I thought it was, it seemed like, like you said, things were log jammed and I was, I was alone and I just thought the rules were different. But then, you know, then some people don't like when you throw other people under the bus, like even in an explanation, like, oh, this guy doesn't own your shit. I think sometimes when you do make

a mistake, the best thing you could do is own up to it. Be like, Hey, this guy doesn't own your shit. I think sometimes when you do make a mistake, the best thing you could do is own up to it. Be like, hey, I got nothing to say other than, I'm sorry, there was a little miscommunication, but that's on me. So maybe that's the move. Although I could understand saying, listen, there were some outside guys that really didn't care about this,

and I just didn't think it was an option for me to stick around. Like, I thought there was real rules here. Can we get some clarification on the like the leadership hierarchy? So the project manager's mad. The CEO doesn't know, but didn't they say that he didn't think the boss would care or that it would be that big of a deal? So is there like a third?

I'm confused about that. Um, see, I just don't like where he says as much as I could throw this dude under the boss, which again, understand why you wouldn't want to, I don't think it's necessary. I feel I can say the round went well and my boss wouldn't care and move on. Yeah, I don't know. The project manager is the flaw in your entire deception game here. If she was upset, she's going to tell on you. In that case, I would tell the boss what happened then.

You're like, hey, project manager got real upset. Now, by the way, she might be overstating her whole deal with some fucking ridiculous corporate structure power play thing of like, I can get mad at you because of the hierarchy. This is unacceptable. Yeah. Probably words that were said. I'm going to make this, right. I'm going to make this a way bigger deal because most of the shit I do here is

pointless, so I'm just going to get on your case about deal because most of the shit I do here is pointless. I'm just going to get on your case about shit because that's what I like to do. Instead of solving problems, I like to add, I like to layer them on like a cake. You should have said anything. Obviously, you screwed that part up. You should have just told her what you planned on telling the CEO, but you don't have to necessarily throw the other guy into the bus. You could just go to the other guy and be like, Hey, do you know she got like pissed? Now he might say, why did you tell her? So now you have to deal with that. I mean, ultimately this thing is not, do you do a good job? Are you awesome at your job? If the answer's yes, no one's going to give a shit about this. So maybe they're mad for a little while, but I would, you have a rat, you have a rat on the inside.

And I think owning shit like that is better than like coming off as a little bit of a weasel or a rat about it. So I think people do respect that if you're just like, I'm not gonna try to tell you seven reasons why this didn't go well. I'm sorry, I understand. Yeah. Okay, that'll do it for life advice.

Thanks to Saruti, Wargon and Kyle. Please check out our show on YouTube. We have some plan for after both rounds of the NBA Draft, which is now two days now. So subscribe to that Ryan Russo podcast also on Ringer and Spotify. and Must be 21 and older, 18 plus in DC, and present in select states. Fandual is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit fandual.com forward slash RG in Colorado, DC, Iowa, Michigan,

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