The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Clippers Gelling, Stopping Luka, and Giannis’s Dominance. Plus: Trent Dilfer on the Challenges of Coaching at a Smaller School, and Ohtani’s Contract and Yamamoto Rumors With Jeff Passan.

Episode Date: December 15, 2023

Russillo opens the show by revealing his takeaways from Thursday’s NBA action (1:00). Then, he’s joined by UAB head coach Trent Dilfer to discuss the challenges of recruiting, competing with bigger programs, and how the Patriots move past this season (23:00). Next, Ryen welcomes in Jeff Passan to make sense of Ohtani’s deal, discuss the Dodgers' acquisition of Tyler Glasnow, and share the latest on Yoshinobu Yamamoto (62:00). Finally, Kyle joins the show to answer some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (91:00). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Trent Dilfer and Jeff Passan Producers: Steve Ceruti, Kyle Crichton, and Mike Wargon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We've got it all for you today. An NBA open on some of the games and also my thoughts on Giannis' record-breaking night and all the drama around that. Trent Dilfer, one year in at UAB. What did he learn? How's recruiting going?

And we've got a Chargers and Belichick question for you. And let's talk Otani contract with Jeff Passan of ESPN and life advice with Kyle. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Winter is here, so be prepared and get almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. What do I mean by almost anything? Well, you can't get a ski slope, but dish soap, definitely doable. Sunshine, that's no. A bottle of wine, yeah. And a snow day, again, no. But blueberry muffins with the delicious crumb topping, total yes. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol and select

markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. We're giving you everything today, hoops, football, and baseball. So let's start with the NBA after last night's games. And I do want to talk about the Yonah stuff against the Pacers. That was two nights ago because I didn't get a chance to, didn't have the pot on Thursday. So we start with the Clippers. They've won six in a row. They beat Golden State last night, eight of the last 10. They're the seventh seed in the West today. No Paul George, hip issue day to day, did not matter. Harden and Kawhi were terrific last night. They played their asses off. Harden defensively, like I do kind of always chuckle

league pass night where it's a notoriously bad defensive player and then he gets a steal and it's like a rule by the home broadcast where they have to say, you know, people say this guy can't play defense. Well, yeah, usually because he can't. Harden last night was great defensively on top of everything else. And it wasn't just like the one play. He was constantly stripping the basketball away from dudes that were waiting around. He had a sick block on Kaminga. He was great. And Kawhi was all over the place getting after loose balls, because I still think with Kawhi certain times defensively, like, look, he's just not who he was. And that's not breaking news. You already know that if you're

watching, but knowing that he can turn it up, it felt like this game really mattered to them, and they swallowed up, I think, Golden State in the fourth quarter because everything for Golden State in the fourth, really to close the game, depending on which minute you want to pick it up at, it was just hard. It was really hard for them. They went 7-24 from the floor in the fourth, 1-12 on threes, and I'm just telling you, they try to figure out what they're doing. Wiggins is on the bench for the first time, I think in his career, I think there

was a playoff game where he did come off the bench with regular season. Um, clay was, was actually looked like clay, uh, last night. He was terrific on the threes and it was the kind of clay where, you know, when he's coming hard off of that screen and it's kind of a catch, maybe a handoff and he's going right up in the shot or somebody's coming over and still contesting it he's just finding a way finding that room that he needed I thought that was probably the only well there's a couple positives pajemski that I'm going to get to here in a second but that was that was like the one part of the offense that felt like it worked and it was the same thing for Curry in the Phoenix game from this week, where you're watching Golden State close offensively and you're saying, this just looks really, really hard. The only easy bucket that I saw from them

was the Looney slip where they ran an action at the top and then Looney was able to just roll to the hoop. Technically, it may not have been a slip, but he just got so free and no one cared. And then he got an easy layup. And what I thought was really interesting about that play is that Powell was assigned to another corner against a three-point shooter. And Kawhi was staying in the corner against Steph. And on that, one of the guys has to just at least try to provide some impediment towards Looney. And Norm looks at Kawhi, and Kawhi just very casually is like, he goes, I have Curry. So it's not going to be me running over there to try to contest Looney.

So that's, that's going to be you. All right. Cause Curry pretty sure the rules are that I'm not supposed to collapse off of Curry. So it was just another little moment there where you realize just kind of how fun it can be when you notice some of that stuff. So the clay part was good, but the Clippers, since that what the hell is going on Denver loss where Denver didn't have Jokic, Murray, or Aaron Gordon playing, the Doc Rivers game, as I like to call them, they were seven and nine. And since that, they're 7-1. Kawhi's at 28 points per game in December, and more importantly, he's played all six of their games. And the Harden as a starter deal, him not playing with the second unit makes this team different. It's weird that teams do this where they make a transaction, and in this case, they were worried

about Westbrook and how he was case, they were worried about Westbrook and how he was going to handle it. But Westbrook, as we've learned, if he doesn't have the ball, it doesn't really do much for you. So he needs the ball. And then when he has the ball, it's just going to lead to a lot of possessions that don't make a lot of sense. It's just who he is as a player. So they ended that pretty quickly. But in the beginning, remember the hardened stuff, the plus minus, like just a few games into his tenure with the Clippers, he was at a net, I think it was minus 16 and a half. And again, that was like a weekend.

And, you know, even as everybody knows, listen to this podcast, he's not my favorite player. I said at the time, I'm like, well, that's incredibly unfair to look at his net rating right now because he's playing with the second unit. He's playing with the second unit because they're trying to appease the Westbrook part of this. Because if you're Westbrook and you trade for Harden, you're going like, oh, seriously? I'd kind of had this rebirth here. Westbrook was really important for them, especially when everybody else got hurt.

So he was kind of their only option. So he's going to get you those numbers. I'm sure he was far happier with the Clippers and all the Laker stuff that was going on but as soon as Harden once they just collectively realized like this doesn't make a lot of sense to continue to do it this way uh now Westbrook comes off the bench well Harden in the last seven games the net rating for him now that he's not playing with just the second unit in the bulk of those minutes is they're just trying to figure out a way to separate Harden and Westbrook as they were in the beginning he's plus nine so uh again it was a team worse minus 16 and a half so it was it was unfair it was too soon and it was just a basketball thing

that made a lot of sense um or at least makes a lot of sense now made little sense then the other thing though with harden that i thought was interesting in kevin o'nor, a colleague here at The Ringer, back on the 27th of November, looked at his attempts. Yeah, so the percentage of shots attempted inside of the restricted area. He basically was a mid to high 30s guy for a good chunk of the first half of his career. Then when he won the MVP, it was 31%, then 27%, 29%, 28%. And then with the Sixers, we saw a decline that he went to 21%. It was significant. He played slower. Now, Embiid, you could argue, was going to take away some of that stuff.

He wasn't going to have that five-out freedom where Capella was really the only option on those lobs when he got into the paint. those lobs when he got into the paint. But since that tweet, KOC updated it and basically was like, look, he's now taking 23% of his shots inside the restricted area and making 59%. So that is a huge, huge development because in the beginning with the Clippers, you're like, wait, what is this going to be? I mean, look, he's always going to get numbers, but I thought he played a complete game last night. And it also leads to me projecting out as I watch different teams play, if there were a Clippers-Lakers series, and we know that the Clippers health bet isn't great. Anthony Davis, it's weird. He's now actually kind of, he's kept this going now for a while, so I don't want to jinx it because I've just been so impressed with

him this season. But you go, hey, could the Clippers have an advantage with their perimeter guys against the lack of perimeter defensive options that the Lakers would likely run out there unless post-Vando that you're hoping for Torian Prince, you're hoping Rui's going to hold up because I don't know that Reeves and D'Angelo would play a bulk of the closing minutes, although Reeves is still a better option offensively than some of the other stuff you're looking at. And look, this is just me kind of thinking out loud. Maybe AD neutralizes that because it's Zoo without the depth behind him.

But look, there'll be trades. There'll be stuff that's made. And ultimately, every single Clippers question ends with the answer of well how healthy are they going to be once the playoffs are all around the other game that I touched on I'm going to be a little quicker on this one Sacramento's now 2-0 against Oklahoma City so another one of those things like hey if they were to play in the playoffs what would it look like I do wonder if Oklahoma City would be a better matchup for Sacramento despite Oklahoma City's record and where they're at seeing right now, than say the Pelicans, and then certainly Denver, and then the Lakers with their size. I don't even know that I

have an answer to it. It's just something I ask myself as I'm watching it, because as great as Chet has been, and he's been awesome, as a rookie playing in his first season, it's not this imposing thing that Sabonis is dealing with, where I think, especially against New Orleans, it felt like he just kind of gets swallowed up, and then you have some other wings trying to deal with the size of the Pelicans. So, De'Aaron Fox, not a bad matchup for him. He missed the earlier game. He had 41 last night.

It felt like Sacramento got to the paint, just broke the paint at will, especially late. They really felt like they kind of got wherever they wanted to go, which is a little surprising because you like some of the defensive options that the Thunder have on the perimeter. And then Keegan Murray is kind of back to looking like the guy that we thought he'd be last year. I mean, he wasn't going to shoot as poorly as he was shooting in November. He's 26% from three. He's 36% this month, but it's also the drives, some of the aggressive stuff that you see for him where he's not just stuck in the corner. That's always exciting. And then let's give a little love to Keon Ellis, a second-year player from Alabama,

who normally doesn't play a ton of minutes, but he's been playing more. He's basically a rotation guy now. 28 minutes last night, his energy, the loose balls, he hit a big floater late, and he looked like the primary defender against SGA. I don't know how many possessions it ended up being, but at least in the second half where I was a lot more locked in, in the carousel of games, it was like, hey, you know what? SGA is a problem for everybody. His pace is perfect. His stuff, he is not an above the rim player. And yet, it's not just the free throw attempts with him. Although, look, he's going to get his free throw attempts. He's just so good. As we already know with this SGA stuff, you don't need a new scattering port

on the same thing that we're hearing again. But I want to talk specifically about double teaming a player in the NBA, because when somebody's going off, you're kind of like, well, why don't you just send a double team at them? And I think more often than not, these players are just so good that if you do the same thing against them defensively with a double, they're going to go ahead and beat you. And Oklahoma City had to deal with SGA being double teamed and they got great looks to close last night's game almost every time. And yet none of it worked. Depends on how you want to grade whether something worked. They got good looks. Let's just go through them real quick. So they doubled SGA when he brought the ball up and they met him pretty far out extended and that led to Chet with

a wide open three at the break, misses it. I think there was an earlier one in there too that Chet missed that was a good look. They double SGA again, again extended out with him as the ball handler and Jalen Williams, J-Dub, the Williams that scores, he had a wide open three. Wide open look off the double swung you take that shot if you're the thunder every time it was clear that the kings were like we're going to live with this and see if we can live in this game as okc came back uh he misses it so then oklahoma city decided to change kind of their starting point with sga still getting the ball and i love when you can kind of see some of this stuff it's like all right they're extending

out the double team we like the looks Why don't we change it up? So then he goes to the right elbow and he gets a catch there. But SGA knew the double was coming and this was just so smart and I loved it even though it didn't work. So instead of him waiting, he'll let the double team establish against him. He's like, all right, you guys are coming. I'm going to break. He split it immediately on a drive, got a really good layup look, and then missed it. Then the next possession, he goes back to that elbow catch, gets doubled. It's a swing, Chet, Isaiah Joe, who lights it up from three. He gets a wide open look, and he misses. You would want that shot if you were the Thunder. But if any of those go down, maybe it's a different result.

And that was kind of the story of the game on top of what looked like Sacramento kind of getting wherever they wanted to go. I was really surprised how easy it felt like they were getting into the paint. So there you go. 0 for 4 on those shots. If you're the Thunder, you're watching the tape today, just sort of shrug. Minnesota wins at Dallas. This was really impressive for a bunch of different reasons that I'll get to, but I really enjoyed the broadcast. I had the Minnesota feed up where the Timberwolves assistant, Mike Inori, who I don't know why I've always kind of liked. I don't know him at all.

I guess maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but I've always kind of liked him a little bit. So they did a breakdown of the two options of what they wanted to do defensively against Luka. And I always will tell you, you know, I never had like a real coach. I don't understand all the terminology. It takes me a little bit longer than guys that play to kind of notice everything that's going on. But once you're told kind of like, hey, this is what the rule is or this is what you're trying to do defensively.

This is how you want to set stuff up. I think a lot of you would be once you kind of see it and then you look for it and you go like, oh, okay, you know, this isn't, this isn't like advanced calculus here. Like it still can kind of figure some of this stuff out. Like I always feel like with the quarterback terminology things, it's like, oh, like Cannell at one time was like, I'm going to read a play to you and you're going to tell me what it is. I'm like, that's like asking me to translate a foreign language I've never heard spoken. It doesn't say I can't do it, but like, okay, yes, I don't know what that play is, but that's not the world that I'm living in. So in this case, as I ramble too far on whatever that point I was trying to make was, Micah sits there before the broadcast. He's

like, look, we have two things we want to try to do against Luka. The first defensive principle was at level. So basically you're meeting Luka with two people. All right. So he's got the ball at the top. There's a screen. He was adamant. He's like, we can't let him direct reject the screen because his step backs to the left rejecting the screen. He said he was shooting like 50% from three. And again, he was just sort of saying it. So don't get upset if that number's a little off, but that was the thing. Like send him into the next defender, meet him with two. Now, if the big man who's sitting the screen rolls, that means somebody from the corner or the elbow has to come off to help. He's like, but what Luka is going to do, which LeBron was just brilliant at this from the beginning, once defense has kind of changed a little bit, he's going to throw it over the top and then hit that guy in the corner and they're still going to get a good look. So as he's breaking it down on the whiteboard, he's like, this is what we're going to do. This is where we're going to meet him. We're going to try to force the ball out of his hands. And it's going to be on this opposite side defender, most likely

on this pass. That's almost going to have to play one against two if they go to the corner or if they go to the break at the three point line with where Dallas would be positioning their offensive players. So that was option one. The second one, which I know a lot of you are more familiar with because it comes up in literally every broadcast now, it's like every broadcaster's favorite term is drop coverage, where instead of bringing two up at the top, in this case, more likely it would be hopefully Gobert, depending on how the substitution patterns are playing out, where Gobert would be dropping for Luka to then have less traffic off the screen at the top. And then he's just getting into somebody

else but gobert's not coming all the way up at level to meet him he's simply dropping back and basically the assistant was saying we hope luca takes the long twos because those you know just the worst shot in basketball that's what we hope the problem is is that and it was it was cool because they're like hey this is what we're going to try to do. And guess what? This is what a lot of teams try to do against Luka, is that he's going to make every single one of these passes unimpeded because he's just that good and he's that big. So we already know that part. And the other thing is you can think you're going to hold him up

or he's going to stop just inside the free throw line, free throw line, and throw up those tough shots, those low percentage shots that every defense is hoping you take. But it doesn't mean he's just going to stop there. Now, the other side of it would be with the size that Minnesota has that you would think that Gobert is going to make you think twice about those drives more so. And when Gobert was out, you could see a different version of Luka being like, all right, Gobert is out now Now we see it against Philly at times where it's like, okay, I better get my drives in now because that huge guy isn't in the game. Uh, towns was really good, uh, for a Minnesota offense that needed it because ant is just still very rusty. I don't

think it's a health thing. He had an all time miss dunk highlight, but ant was three and 19 and towns helped carry the starters. And then more importantly, Nas Reed, unbelievable. 7-11 on threes last night, 27 points. Luka was actually assigned to him defensively a bunch, I noticed. And this is the part of Luka's game that's just really, really frustrating. I get being pulled in from the corner if you're defending a guy who's in the deep corner there on the three-point line. But if you're being pulled in,'s in the deep corner there on a three-point line but if

you're being pulled in have a reason to be pulled in and there's just too many possessions with luke where you're like i don't even know what you're doing like are you just trying to get the rebound and then get out of the break like you have to especially with a the way nas was shooting last night you have to find a way to stay honest in that spot you You can't just roam with no reason because some of the stuff that they do, Minnesota, I'll even notice it with Nas Reed. If he doesn't think he's going to get the shot off, he'll go to the baseline.

He makes some really, I would say, challenging passes at times where he likes to kind of pass it across the baseline to the opposite corner, which I wouldn't say they always work out. It might be something you think about if you're defending him. Like, you get a contest get ready to try to pick off some pass that's like that's just a really hard pass to make when you think about the distance it has to travel but luca just floating a little bit kind of losing track of where he's supposed to be and then luca had a moment he didn't get a foul call got really upset stayed behind the play it led to a wide open

attempt that didn't go down but just some of those little things despite how great you know i'm not turning this into a luuka criticism thing here, but we know defensively there's still issues, despite the fact that every defense is trying to figure out a way to slow the guy down and still probably isn't going to matter. The other part of last night's story could be told in a three-point shooting. Minnesota 45% versus Dallas 22% from deep. I had a Kobe White thing.

I just want to acknowledge that he's been awesome. They beat the Heat last night. No bam again for Miami for a stretch here. Kobe's last seven games, 26, 27, 33, 24, 19, 31, 23 points. He has lit it up. Something else to remember, because in my favorite part of the trade deadline season, which again, we're not peak there yet, certainly in December, but some of the just headline rumors that I see that I'm like, what is that one? I might do it once a week, like the rumor or the headline that I looked at was like, that's insane. But because Chicago had won a bunch in a row that they were going to hold off on any moves, it's nice that they'd won four in a row. But the Levine trademark, I wonder if, look, I think the NBA kind of knows who Zach Levine is, but it's not great for Levine that since he's been out, which I think is the 28th, that Boston game, let me double check. Yeah, they lost to Boston by like 30. He's got this foot injury. So since the Boston loss when they were 5-14, they've actually won five of their last seven.

they've actually won five of their last seven um and granted the denver one they still lost when you'll get thrown out of that but look five out of the last 714 that was 5 and 14 at some point is improvement last thought yannis so two nights ago he's going for the bucks franchise record i think it was ended up being 58 points he hit the free throws comes out of the game the pacers actually got it to within what was it 10 8 or 10 and so they had to put him back in so yannis ends up with 64 points so two things uh it is really frustrating if you're going up against yannis i would agree that it's a fair criticism that he gets away with carrying the basketball in in ways that i mean you'd be like you wait you're gonna let him carry the basketball now too and you know the offensive player initiating all this contact now and getting rewarded every

single time. I've already done that rant. Um, you know, it just, it, it's just really, really frustrating. And we saw Monte Williams like lose his mind a couple of years ago that, all right. So those are two things, but that's fine. Like I love every other part of them. Um, I wouldn't do a 10 minute thing on like, you know, Giannis shouldn't get these foul calls or whatever, even though there's some calls in there, uh, in a 32 night free throw attempt night, you're like, wait, he got that foul too. Like it's just going to happen. Okay. Uh, it doesn't mean you have to love it, but I love every other part of it. Okay. Sign me up, bill me later, little subscription thing. I want

all of it because I spend a lot of time frustrated with supposed stars in this league that I don't think get it or I don't think are wired mentally the way I'd want them to be. first started noticing Giannis because in the beginning, you know, with him, it was these moments, but you didn't know how great of a basketball player he was. The reason he is the player he is now is because of the way he is wired. Those early games against the Sixers when Ben Simmons was still around and you like Giannis would get excited to try to go at Embiid. Doesn't mean he's going to win every confrontation, but he was like one of the few guys in the league was like, Ooh, Embiid's at the rim. Like I'm going to try to posterize them. It may not work out. There was times against Ben Simmons, like Ben Simmons, body type and everything he was at defensively. You felt like, okay, well you actually have a chance if you were matchup in the playoffs, because you have somebody who's like, at least

in the neighborhood of size. And Giannis was like, are you serious with this? Like, let's go. So I love all of it. So the fact that he goes for 64 and he'd been tossed by Neesmith, who if you've watched Neesmith play this year, he's an extremely aggressive guy. So that wasn't all that surprising. And yes, I know that he knocked down Halliburton earlier, but with the in-season tournament result and that game in itself, sign me up for this stuff. Like, this is what I thought we wanted. I will watch the next Pacers-Bucks game. That will be on, like, TV number one because I want these teams to be pissed off at each other.

I want to see a little extra in a regular season game. I hope they play in the playoffs. Like, all this stuff was great. Now, you want to tell me that you thought Giannis was out of his mind when he didn't get the basketball afterwards? Yeah, that's fine. But I don't care. I don't care. The idea that Oscar Schwiebe he didn't get the basketball afterwards. Yeah, that's fine. But I don't care.

I don't care. The idea that Oscar Shwebe is supposed to get the ball because he scored his first career point, which I didn't even know about any of this stuff. Um, when technically he scored his first career point in the in-season tournament, but those stats don't count, but then to see it all play out on Twitter the night before where there was an explanation, they were like, wait, we kept the ball because of Shwee Bay. And we're like, okay, fine. And then they did another breakdown where the Pacers actually tweeted out about Shwee Bay's like path from, from Congo to like, Hey,

it was like, wait, what is this all damage control? This is why we took the ball. And then Giannis goes in there, wants the ball. Lillard looks like, what the hell is going on? Then Giannis is like, I'm not even sure this is the right ball. I think if you have a 64, that should trump anybody getting their first point, even if technically it really wasn't, or if the history books say that it is. The point, I'm just, I'm not going to criticize the guy. All right. I look at it as I cannot ask the stars, the guys that matter. I cannot ask where their passion is and then get mad at somebody else. And I know that some would say, well, does that mean like you search for whatever contradiction you think you're going to get me on?

Go ahead. The point with this is I'll sign up for all of it. Even if you want to be critical of how absurd it got at the end of it. He's somebody we've had on a lot in the past, and I don't know what was wrong with me. I should have had him on during the season, but we can recap his first year as the head coach at UAB. It's our good friend Trent Dilfer. Morning, man. Thanks for doing this. I'm fired up to do it, man.

I miss talking ball with you and life with you. And you continue to be awesome. And I'm a four and eight head coach. So a little bit different dynamic now. Yeah, I wasn't going to intro you in with the four and eight, but we knew it was going to be a challenge, you know, seventh and scoring. And fortunately, they keep track of the other team's points too. So look, what surprised you? I mean, anyone in a leadership role, you can have a plan. You can think you know what you're going to do your first year in now that it's over. What surprised you about the job? I think surprised and learned are two different things. I went into this thing knowing I was going to grow. In fact, I don't know if you do it. I do

the John Gordon one word of the year kind of exercise where you try to frame your one word for the year. And mine was growth. I was sitting on vacation last year over Christmas and had just taken the job and realized that, you know, I'm going to grow a lot this year and I need to. In fact, it's over in that corner of my office, there's giant bold letters that say word of the year growth. So I knew there would be challenges. I knew I'd be stretched. I knew there'd be things I had to adapt to. Surprise though, the only surprising thing that I found was the conflict and challenge of preparing for a game in a professional manner, which we do. We're a game plan building, much like I guess people would be familiar with the Patriots. We create a game plan each week to enhance our strengths and expose our opponent's weaknesses. So there's a lot of intellectual challenges in that.

A lot of teaching goes into that. And you probably work harder than most buildings when doing that. You don't just have a system you plug and play in. You're sometimes installing an entirely new way of doing things to beat that opponent. So there's a lot of work that goes with that. So balancing that with in-season recruiting, I knew we recruited in season. I had obviously as the high school coach and connected to college coaches for years, knew that you were in season recruiting. I had no idea of the,

the pole between the two that literally I could be coming off the practice field. We're a morning practice team. And I start watching film and I'm breaking down the day's practice and taking my notes and making corrections. And then the next thing you know, I'm four hours deep into recruiting. And then you're picking back up game planning at five o'clock at night. And then you're working until eight 30. And then guess what? Those kids are done with practice. Uh, they're back at their houses and I'm in my office or sitting on my couch, texting, calling kids till 10 o'clock at night. Um, then you're evalueing prospects. Uh, you know, the, it's just, that was the one that surprised me. I had to kind of change my workflow and my perspective and my priorities in the middle of the season to make sure I was equipped to do both

well. Cause I think what happens in the college game is some head coaches are really good at one and not good at the other. And I want to be really good at both. And I probably was very bad at both when it started. I thought by the end of the year, weeks, say nine through 12, I felt like I had said, okay, I grew, I figured I made some mistakes. And now I figured this out and created a workflow and a strategy to hopefully be really good at both. Do you like, I don't know if this is the right term, maybe it's too harsh, maybe you'll correct me on it, but do you like having to kiss the ass of 18 year olds? Yeah, it's, you know, remember I went through this three times with my daughters,

all were big time recruits. So I saw how coaches dealt with them. Um, I went through this at the elite 11 with the quarterbacks. Uh, and then as the high school coach, I went through with my prospects, my, my athletes that were recruited at a high level. And I saw different ways of doing it. I wouldn't say I don't, I don't kiss ass. Um, I'm very, I tell most recruits this, and if you're watching this and you're a parent, this is what you're going to get. You're going to get the best recruiter in college football or the worst. There's nothing in between with me.

And people that know me are like, yeah, that's kind of who he is. You know what I mean? I'm either all in or all out. And that's how I am as a recruiter. I'm brutally honest. I mean, I have sat with kids that we really need to get and have told them things like, you're not very good. Like, I don't know why all these schools are recruiting. I know why they're recruiting you

because you're long, you're fast, you're strong. You were productive in high school, but you're not a good football player. Like you don't run to the ball. You don't contact accelerate. You don't have very good eye work yet. You don't use your hands. Like you don't come, you're not a great communicator. I've talked to your English teacher. You don't turn assignments in on time.

Like your habits off the field aren't great, but that's, what's awesome. Like you have the chance because what God gave you and your physical traits to be a really, really good player. But you got to change some things. And that's what's awesome. Like you have the chance because what God gave you and your physical traits to be a really, really good player. But you got to change some things. And that's what we do. You know, we're teachers. I don't have a staff full of just guys. I got a staff full of teachers. I was very strategic in how I hired the staff. And we love that about you. We actually love that you're this piece of clay that we can mold and shape. And

you're going to turn into so-and-so, which I played with, you know, because the guy played with the Ravens or the Bucks or Seattle, he was just like you, but he had to learn all these other things when he got under the umbrella of a bunch of teachers and mentors and people that will love you and serve you. And I've had kids go, yeah, I'm out. Like I'm going to the places, kissing my ass. But I've also had a lot that have said, okay, like I haven't heard this before. So tell me how you're going to develop me. And we have a very distinct, you know, we don't just recruit a kid, try to get him to sign an NLI. We're recruiting a kid to put a ring on it, like to marry him. Like we have a plan.

We ain't dating you anymore. We're putting this ring on the finger. We're in this thing for life. And we better have a plan for how we're going to do this. And we have a very tactical plan for how we're going to develop each kid. And I think that's why we haven't had kids jump in the portal in my two cycles here. You know, kids that we want to keep have not jumped in. They know they're on a developmental track. They feel loved. They feel appreciated. They might've had some tough things happen this year. They're disappointed on our

record. They made me want to play a little bit more, but every single day they feel as if, um, this is a group of people that's helping them develop. So I know it sounds like a sales pitch, but I don't kiss ass. I mean, I am very, very clear with what we're looking for and where you fit into. And if you don't like what we're about, then it's going to suck when you get here anyway. So why would I lie to you, get you here, and now you're leaving me in a year to the portal? Like, I want you to know the truth on the front end. I've talked to you about this before. And, you know, I'll never forget when I went to Georgia for a game,

you know, and I would go over to the strength room, like, hey, you know, I'm here for four days. Can I use the gym? And I think it was JT3's dad, Terry Shinsky's dad was there. And I was just asking him, like, you know, what's it, what's it like? You know, I always, I always loved the kind of boots on the ground perspective. It's, it's probably my favorite thing I've ever got to do in my career is actually be at these places, be inside the building, see what the vibe is like. And, you know, I was, I think we got on the topic

of like, how many, how many guys think they're going pro or, you know, how do you deal with the guys that aren't playing. They're thinking this is way before the portal was what it is now. And he just looked at me and kind of laughed. He's like, these guys are at Georgia. Every single guy, 100 guys that have a unit, they all think they're playing in the NFL. Maybe there's three guys a cycle that already know when they show up here.

And it makes sense. If you're good enough to get to Georgia or any of these top programs, you think the only reason you're not playing is somebody, the coaches make a mistake, right? Like I'm better than that guy. And you know, I'm still have all my NFL dreams. I think when you look at UAB and where it's positioned geographically, you've got a lot of kids, at least locally in high school level that thought they were going to play at Bama. They thought they were going to play at Auburn. And then when I look at your transfer portal stuff and you'll see a guy from a power five and then he's at UAB.

And then I wonder like, is he upset that he's there? Or is he thinking that as a stepping stone? Like, how do you handle the psyche of the kids that maybe thought it was going to go differently and get them to buy in that it can still work for you here? I mean, I've done a lot of interviews, right? And that might be the best question I've been asked. I'm not just pulling smoke up your tailpipe because that is, you just asked the question, like that is the group of five question that nobody wants to talk about. I don't know why we own it. You know, like we're leftovers,

like you grow up in the state, Alabama or Georgia or Mississippi, um, the three or Tennessee, kind of our neighboring States. You think you're going to university of Tennessee. I mean, your height, your junior high coach tells you that your high school coach tells you that, that those are the games you go to. Those are the colors you wear. When I was at Lipscomb, every kid wore orange, right? They all thought they're going to UT. You're in Mississippi. You either want to go to Alabama, Auburn, Mississippi State, or Ole Miss. You're in Georgia. You obviously want to go to Georgia. Some of those kids want to go to Alabama or Auburn. SEC football is the king. And if anybody denies it, they're crazy. I mean, it just means more. They spend more. It's better. They put more kids in

the league. They have better coaches. They have better facilities. They're just the best. It's semi-pro football. It's awesome. There's nothing not to like about it. We went to Georgia this year. I'm like, shit. Yeah, this is amazing. Like I get it. Um, I would argue it's playing in an sec stadium like Georgia and Athens is better than playing in an NFL stadium. It is the pageantry, the energy, just the general awesomeness is amazing. So yeah. So every kid wants that. So now they can't, right. They're told no at some point and that affects their identity to a certain degree. I mean, these kids, a lot of them are wrapped up in what football has told them they are. I don't think that's healthy, but that's the reality of it.

You are told you are this, therefore that's my self-worth. That's therefore, that's how I view myself. So if you're at Troy, great program, uh, South Al, uh, UAB, um, MTSU, Southern Miss, right? We can go out Tulane, great program. You're at these programs, you're somewhat of a leftover. If you got there out of high school, or if you've transferred there from your dream school and you weren't getting the playing time. I think you have coaches, the economics of college football and the group of five level is,

you know, I think I have the best offense coordinator in all football. And I think he's better than anybody at any power five. I'd put him against anybody, Alex Mortensen. He makes a seventh of what the best guys in the SEC make, a sixth, you know, a fraction of what those guys make.

My position coaches are dramatically underpaid for what they do because we don't have the economics that these other places have. So they feel like leftovers, right? Or they're super ambitious. And this is like a stepping stone. I'm going to go here to get to that next thing, which I don't blame them. I'm all about career development. I told them, I will kick your butt out the office if you have the chance to go coach

for Nick or Kirby or Lane or whoever it is. I'm all about that. But long-winded Dilfer answer, yes, this is a building, not just our building, group of five buildings that you have to embrace kind of the leftover mentality or the, you know, the, the side action, so to speak. And I think you need to use that to your advantage because when I was doing the draft for ESPN, the second day, remember Gruden did the first night that I would jump on there with Trey and Mel and do the second day. And I remember out the middle of the second day. And I remember out

the middle of the second day, my second or third year doing it, I got my ear to the research guy. I said, we got to find something different to tell the story. I said, I think I got it. Find me NFL pro bowlers the last five years where they were drafted and what schools they went to. He's like, come on. I mean, it was like an hour later, 60% of the pro bowl were rounds three through seven or undrafted free agents over 70% of that 60% were small mid-majors to small colleges. So I said, okay, what's the distinct, what's the, what is the one thing that comes out of that? And it came out later on the show. It was playing time. It was snaps played. Did you play enough football? Did they see you enough? Did you fail enough and then recover enough? Is there enough evidence of who you are as an athlete, who you are as a decision

maker, who you are from a technical standpoint, how your system fit, how many special teams did you play on? And I started learning and I use this every other year in the draft that that's what makes bros guys that are hardened and experienced by college football and have enough of the traits. Obviously we're always saying you have to have enough of the physical traits. And I'm like, that's what I tell my program is like, guys, you're getting an opportunity to play more football, to be in front of the scouts more because of my relationships with the NFL. We have, I mean, our, our building is loaded with scouts constantly and we get player personnel directors. We get GMs coming through here because they're my buddies.

You know, they were probably, it's going to sound terrible, but they were like grunt workers when I was playing in the NFL buildings that have kind of elevated up now to personnel directors and GMs. And it's cool because our players are like, oh, he's not full of crap. Like, I have a chance in practice today to be in front of these 13 scouts that are at our practice and show them what I got. Then they're going to watch me play on film because I'm a freshman. I'm a 17 year old freshman. And I'm starting at a mid-major against Georgia in their house. And you know, I'm a redshirt freshman left guard with great physical traits and I'm getting to play 850 snaps this year. So, or I'm a redshirt freshman left guard with great physical traits, and I'm getting to play 850 snaps this year. So, or I'm a transfer from SEC school, whatever, that I was in the rotation there, but I'm

the dude here. Or I'm the backup at UAB, but I get to practice with the ones group, like the A field, and I get thrown in the game for 13 reps a game when at the other place, I wasn't getting any action. So I think you have to embrace that. I do think you need to help them understand that what Instagram says and what Twitter said or X, what you guys say about there's only one football that matters. Sure. For TV ratings. Absolutely. I 100% agree with that as in the TV game, but not the reality of being seen by the USFL, the NFL, European football now, which is paying really good money and a great opportunity to play professional football. There's a lot of

opportunities to play beyond college football. And I actually think the mid-major is where you go to get more action. When I watch on Saturdays and I'll have a Power 5 game on, there'll be a team and like, hey, let me check them out. I really enjoyed watching Michael Pratt at Tulane the last couple of years. Oh, he's awesome, by the way. Right. I mean, I think it was the Oklahoma game a few years ago where I was like, whoa, who's this guy?

And you could just kind of tell. And so when I watch, there's usually a receiver where I'm like, whoa, you know, who's this guy? And you could just kind of tell. And so when I watch, there's usually a receiver or I'm like, whoa, you know, who's that running back? What's going on there? Maybe a corner that I'm like, oh, okay. Is the biggest difference the lines? Yeah. So the number one deal is a line of scrimmage. Uh, and it's not even, I'll give you a term that I used to use. In fact, I wrote an article for the athletic years ago on this about Justin Herbert. Uh, and it was a way for, for, I wanted to find a way where the average person who wants to be an evaluator can just kind of put every athlete into a bucket. And I came up with, I called it power twitch balance. And every professional athlete at every, and almost

every big sport has this combination of enough power. So enough horsepower that's generated from their body. Okay. And then they have this short area quickness, like reaction thing called that twitch. The ones that make it have a balance of both. They might be an eight, five power and a seven twitch, but that's really good, right? They might be a nine power and a six, five twitch. That's still pretty good. The balance of those two hit eight, if my math is anywhere close. But what happens too often is you say, oh, he's a powerful guy. He's good. No, he's a two twitch. So that's not good. So he's an eight power two twitch.

That's 10. That's a five. The mean of that's a five. That's a below the line player. That's what you have in group of five football at the lines of scrimmage. You have a lot of either really powerful guys. Hey, let's go get that 330 pound guard.

He looks just like the one at LSU. Yeah, but the one at LSU is 330 and twitchy. So he's powerful and twitchy. That's why he's playing at LSU. The guy here is 330 pounds, but his feet are in cement and he can't react. He has no second reaction movement qualities, right? So his twitches down, powers up. So they're always lacking something, right? At the line of scrimm is up. So they're always lacking something, right? At the line of scrimmage. Now, we hope we're changing that. You know what I mean?

We're looking for players that have power Twitch or have the potential for high power Twitch. You know, we have a 6'7 tackle on our team right now. It's a true freshman. We have a 6'8 tackle on our team. It's a true freshman. We have a 6'6 guard. We have a 6'5 center. They are very good athletes. Very good athletes. They lack some power. They're

underdeveloped. That's why you haven't seen them play yet for us. But you can grow that power piece. They are naturally twitchy, short area quickness, very athletic, bendy players. They need to grow on the power. So you're saying like North Dakota state does a great job with it. They kind of started this trend years ago. They'll go find the six, five and a half, 245 pound track, you know, discus throwers that are underdeveloped as offensive linemen. And they bring them into their program and they get them great nutrition and great strength conditioning. Well, they get drafted or they end up being all Americans or whatever it is. Other schools have done this too,

because what they find is the athlete and they build the power. But what happens in this era of mid-major trying to win now at the line of scrimmage, you're like, okay, he's really twitchy. He gets off the ball. Well,

let's sign him as a defensive tackle. He's a good three technique. Yeah. Until he gets double teamed and he's driven back six yards because he lacks power. He lacks strength. So you find a lot long-winded answer again. And I think anybody that's going to listen to this podcast with me knows what they're getting with answers, storytelling. That's where you really are looking for the secret sauce of this level of football. It's no different than what I did in high school where I took over that horrible,

you know, they were built it out of the dust. We've used the same formula to build that. It's just a different, you know, in high school, you're given what you have and then people move in and stuff. So it was a little bit different, but we're using the same formula. It does work.

It's going to work over time. It's just making it work right away is the difficult thing. But yeah, receivers, corners, safeties, quarterbacks, running backs. Um, there's a million of them, especially in the Southeast. Like they're, they're everywhere. There's kids right now that I know we will not be able to offer at a high school that want to come here that are exceptional, that want to come here that are exceptional, exceptional prospects. And they're within 55 miles of where I'm sitting.

So at one point this season, you're like, wow, first takes talking about UAB. This is awesome. You're like, no. Is good publicity? Is that true? You get that? I don't always believe in that. I know some people do. And it was because you lost your mind on the sideline to your assistant. You were yelling at him. You described it later

on. You're like, look, I was yelling at everybody because the headset and people forget there was a legal substitution on the fourth and two for you defensively. First down, huge spot of the game. You ended up losing the game. People didn't like it. People were on you big time i am biased we are friends i know you as you said here before you kind of know what you're getting when you sign up for it um but i i think people had a real problem with it what was that like for you you know what i regretted it because i'm trying to be better in my older age you know 51 now I've been around high intensity stuff for a long time. I'm a passionate guy. You know, I'm the only quarterback that's been kicked out of a game for fighting and game with Johnny Randall. Like I have my warts when it comes to wearing my emotions on my sleeves and

sometimes let them get the best of me as I get older, I've gotten a lot better. Um, but I still, you know, what it's called around here is, is a missile coming or not, you know, is he going to launch a missile or is he going to blow his top? I don't do it very often. Uh, and you can ask anybody in my building when I do, it tends to be pretty passionate. Um, pretty, uh, there's another word. Um, pretty, there's another word. And that one I regret because, you know, I mean, the issue cost us the game against Tulane on the road, top 25 team that we had beat. You know, so like the context of it was worth a reprimanding

to the entire group, like I said, on the headset that was getting it. of reprimanding to the entire group. Like I said, on the headset that was getting it, how it was, um, executed was poor on my part. You know, you don't yell at an entire group and look at one person and point at one person. It was not that coach's soul fall. Uh, he got the brunt of it. And what I hurt for, cause you, because I don't get on social. I've never been a big social guy. I do love me some Instagram. But I don't open my ex app.

I don't care what people are saying. I don't watch TV anymore. I mean, these TVs behind me are full of, both of them have game tape on most of the time. So I didn't really hear what was being said. I felt bad for the coach because all of a sudden he becomes part of this narrative. And all he did was make a mistake. If every mistake I made as a player, as a coach, as a human was talked about the next morning,

man, that would suck because I've made a lot of them. So that, that's what I felt bad about. Um, just for anybody that cares, you know, the next morning in the staff meeting, I asked for his forgiveness for singling him out. I admitted my mistake. Uh, we talked about it as a staff. We talked about it as a team, uh, and we moved on. Um, he's still on the staff. He's one of my favorite guys. He's a very good coach. Uh, so I guess that's how I addressed it afterwards. I'm regretful that, you know, even at this age, I don't always, uh, control my emotions the best. Uh, it's definitely been a point of emphasis for me. Again, going back to that growth piece that

I was talking about, you know, that was a forcing function to get me. Again, going back to that growth piece that I was talking about, you know, that was a forcing function to get me to, to grow even more in that area. I wonder how much you paid attention to Colorado and the Dion story, uh, because it took all sorts of turns this year. They get off to this great start. It's fun. It's kind of the hot thing in college football. He's on 60 minutes. I think those of us that, you know, we're watching, we're like, I don't, I don't know if they're going to be any good. And then it falls apart for him. And then it felt like a victory lap. If you didn't like Dion, I always kind of felt like it felt like, Hey, don't tell me I have to believe that they're going to win the pack 12 or, you know what I mean? Like, let's, let's not get carried away here. And then you were a hater.

And then if you pointed out, you know, so like the whole thing took all these cycles, I think just from, from my, the whole thing to me is actually a success considering what that program was and, you know, getting attention. That's a big part of it. It worked, but knowing you like as, as kind of a same profile, but at a smaller school, do you root for Dion or, or, or do you feel like, I'm just curious, like how you consume that? I know you probably don't have a ton of time to pay attention to watch all their games with your own job, but how do you feel about the Dion story and how it kind of relates to what you're trying to do? Well, number one, prime will win. Um, he's a winner. He's a he's always won he will win there I root for him adamantly because

of the human anybody that knows or has interacted with Dion knows that he's just a great human being in fact one of the first texts I got after my first win as a college football coach was from prime, like before my parents, it was like, congrats on the first one, many to come proud of you. Like he just does that for everybody. Like if you talk to people in the NFL that have played against them with him, coached them, whatever, and all the people he's mentored, he just has a massive influence on the game of football. And he's revered in football circles by those that he's had contact with. Now, there's a lot of jealousy around Prime. And there's a lot of people rooting against him because of his charisma, because he's

attacked this a little bit differently. I would not want to recruit against him. This would not be something I would sign up for. I would not want to recruit against them. Like this would not be something I would sign up for. Like I, you, you are in big trouble. If you are head to head with prime on a player or a parent, uh, especially if that player or parent gets in front of him because it's authentic, it's real. I know it doesn't always look like that from the outside, uh, when you're watching the commercials or the documentaries or the interviews, but, uh, prime has this way to like, look into your eyes and you just know it's real.

So I would not want to recruit against them. Uh, he will win. Those kids will be served. Um, there'll be told the truth. There'll be developed. I feel bad for this. This is the one that got me. And I actually was able to fall a little bit closer than I thought to be able to, because they played night games. I was able to watch them. Um, I follow them on Instagram. So I see all that stuff. Uh, my family's very in tune with it. And I felt bad that he didn't get to coach probably as much as he wants to coach. That's the hardest thing for us ball coaches. We want to coach football. We want to do XO. We want to do technique. We want to be on the field, having our hands on it, fixing it and helping kids.

And as a head coach, you get torn away. Now I am like, if prime is an A plus celebrity, I'm a D minus. So we're not even the same stratosphere of celebrity coach. However, even as a D minus celebrity, I get pulled away all the time. Like I am constantly being torn from what I want to do, which is coach football from what the institution needs me to do to be a brand. Well, my coaches need me to do raise money. Well, my players need me to do raise an NIL. Well, my community needs me to do? Fill the stadium. So what I want to do as coach, what I need to do is brand build, right? Now multiply that by 10,000. That's what Prime's had to do. And I feel really bad for him that that is what he is having to do because Prime can coach.

Like everybody talks, I always love this with nick saban's a great secondary coach and he is maybe one of the best of all time imagine if prime got to go coach a secondary all the time what if he got to devote all of his time to coaching safety footwork and corners eyes and and man tech and zone tech and zone cloud rules and forcing the run and disguising coverage. You think he might be able to do a pretty good job with that? He's one of the greatest. I think he's the greatest ever played. And I played against him. I wish he got to coach more because that's the joy in this thing. The joy in this thing is the coaching, not the flippant brand building, which we need to do. And we're going to do it. And we have to do it for our institutions and for the people we serve. But it's not the fun thing. It's not the thing

we want to do. Great answer. Man, you are on fire today. All right. I have two football-related questions that are just NFL questions, because I know you still pay attention to it, and they're bigger picture stuff. But we saw what happened with the Raiders and Chargers game last night. We know that the Chargers have been probably one of the most disappointing teams the last couple of years. Herbert's obviously out now, so Easton sticks in. But whenever you look at talent at the beginning of the year, every year I start with the Chargers, I'm like, look at all of these guys. And on top of it, Staley's a little different. So when you're different and you're bad, it's going to be way worse than being the same and being bad, but it felt like everybody quit.

Have you ever had an experience where you're with a team, it's going bad, and you know that it's just over for that coach? Because that's what we think we saw last night. Yeah, I lived in Tampa. The late Sam Weish, a great man, had a ton of success in Cincinnati, was different, right? Came to Tampa under the old ownership group, not the Glacier ownership group, um, tried Claude scraped and Claude and fought to try to build that thing into a respectable organization, uh, but did things differently, you know, and, and when it went bad, when it started to go bad, it was easy to point the finger at him, right? Because he was different. Everybody else was the

same. He was different. And we definitely quit. Like there were, there were times towards the end where we quit and I feel horrible about it. Um, it's one of my biggest regrets. What do you mean quit? Give me an example. What did you know? I quit on him and kind of went behind his back to front office. I was a second-year quarterback, sixth pick of the draft, making excuses for why I was the worst player in the NFL. And I was.

I was the worst player in the National Football League in 1995. Some would argue in four four and six 96 too. But in five, I was like, I was the worst player in the national football league. And you know, my, my identity was hurt. My self-worth was hurt. I had people in my ear, agents, family, you know, people say, it's not your fault. Like it's his fault. And you know, I went behind his back and next, you know people say it's not your fault like it's his fault and you know I went behind his back and next you know he's getting fired and I wasn't the reason he got fired but as part of the reason and I man I regret that oh my gosh I years later I apologized to him and asked for his forgiveness

but they did love scars you know he I was his prize prize jewel. You know, he, he went and bought to get me as the sixth pick of the draft and I let him down. So, and his whole team let him down and we quit on him. So that's kind of what you're seeing. I don't know what Staley's relationship is with his team. Um, but that's what you saw. Nobody in the NFL can score 63 points against that talented defense, by the way, this is a team that scored zero points the week before. I mean, unprecedented. Yeah. Yeah.

The Raiders scored zero the week before. Yeah. Minnesota. Yeah. One, it's almost impossible to score zero. And then two, it's more impossible to score 63 in the NFL unless the other team lays down. And they will say they didn't. They will come out today, I'm sure. And there's,

while we're talking, there's probably some TV argument of all. We didn't quit. Don't ever say we'd quit. I have too much pride. We don't quit. It's all crap because you don't give up 63 points no matter what, unless there's part of you that did not show up to that game. They're the players in the NFL are too good. The schemes are too good. The coaching is too good. The game plans are too good to give up that many points. I can turn over 12 times and not give up 63 points. So there's definitely that going on. And I feel bad for the organization because everybody thinks somebody's going to win in this when you fire the head coach or the players like, well, get out of here.

Or a new guy will come in and save me. Nobody wins. Nobody wins in this situation. Um, so it's, it's tough to see it from the outside looking in. Last thing, um, I'll share it with you. You've probably heard me say it before. I know the audience has been in case you haven't. Um, you know, I was on the Brady side of the Belichick Brady divorce. Cause it's like, all right, fine. You want to move on from him a year or two earlier than what's your plan. And if your plan was Jared Stidham, Cam Newton, and then Mac Jones, and that wasn't a good plan. And it wasn't even Mac Jones. It was just, okay, we have to draft somebody. What they did with Mac in the second year, I'll never understand. The personnel record is atrocious. Any other GM would have lost his job already.

But having said all of those things, I've met, I've become friendly or friends with guys that have played with or played for bill that are like anybody that thinks he's just a bad coach. It's like the dumbest thing you could ever say. So I would never, I would never say that. I don't believe that. Uh, it's an absurd thing that he's just, it was all Brady and that, that Belichick this whole time was just a bad coach. There's too many guys that are like, dude, you have no idea how great this guy is. The details, all the different stuff. All right. So now that I've said that, if it's Caleb Williams or Drake May for them in the draft, I'm going to take some work. And you're the craft, like you own the team. So just say you're the other craft guy that's in charge of this. What would you do with Belichick? Well, I agree with everything you said. It was a

both and, right? It's not one or the other. It was both. And it was a perfect marriage for a long time. Um, I think what happens is suddenly, I don't know if this happened to bill, but over time you forget what got you to where you're at and great coaches. I always say this, the head coach is the most overrated person in football. We get all this credit and we don't really deserve it, right? It's the people you hire are really the ones, the ones playing the games and the ones you hire really do the bulk of the work. It's under your vision and your mission. And yeah, you might have hands in on certain things, but outside of who you hire, it's a pretty overrated job. But who you hire is massive.

And he had really good coaches for years on the offensive side of the ball. And over time, that deteriorated. And Brady became kind of the intellectual um makeup of an offensive of an offensive group you lose the leadership of it you better be hiring dynamic people right dynamic coaches that are best in class if you're the patriots i don't know if he's done that um and it's not just one coach it's not just bill Billy O coming back or, you know, it's like the entire offensive staff needs to matters. So if he revamps his offensive staff and make sure it's as good as it once was, then yeah, I think Caleb or Drake may could change that organization. I think both are very good. I typically, I personally believe Caleb's a transformational type talent. You know, all the guys who sought the Elite 11 all those years,

he would be in that top five of transformational type players. But it's not just the player. It's Bill saying, all right, we're reinvesting resources, meaning, you know, human equity into the offensive staff again at every level to make sure we develop this player, Drake May, Caleb Williams, to the best of our abilities and do what Bill Walsh did. And this really is what I think Bill Walsh's legacy in the NFL was more than just the West Coast offense. He made the building quarterback-centric. It's different when it's offensive-centric, defensive-centric. The great ones, and they mostly come from Bill's tree, they make the entire organization quarterback-centric,

meaning everything we do in this building, every decision made in this building is to help the quarterback be successful, not entitle him. We're not entitling the quarterback, but to make him successful. Every personnel move, every coaching move, everything we do in the building is for that human to be successful because if he's successful, we're all successful. Now hear me correctly, not entitled. Sometimes that person, that quarterback, has to be treated harder than the rest. I think Bill did that with Tom.

Tom, to be the first to tell you, was almost a different standard for him than everybody else. It was a harder standard. But the building was built for him to be successful. And you go through these lists of Hall of Fame quarterbacks, that building was built for them to be successful. People ask me why I've been so successful with high school quarterbacks and now a kid that hadn't started any games and was a third leading guy in college football and completion percentage. Because we built the building around that position to be successful. His name could be

Jacob Zeno. His name could be Ryan Rosillo. It doesn't matter what his name is. Whoever plays quarterback here will be one of the best players in college football because I learned it from Bill and all his disciples. And I think that's what the Patriots need to go back to is whoever that person is, we're building it all so he can be successful because when the quarterback's successful, the organization's successful. This was awesome catching up, man. I can't wait for this.

I'm sure you can't wait for the second season in the way it's probably already started for you guys. So let's do it again, all right? Let's ramp up for 24. Anytime, brother. Appreciate you. A lot of people call me Hot Stove Rosillo. They know this is my season.

This is my time to shine. And we're your home for hot stove rossillo they know this is my season this is my time to shine uh and we're your home for hot stove baseball stuff although i don't know i don't know where that temperature's at right now so let's get a reading on it espn baseball senior writer jeff passon with us thank you so much for joining us jeff uh i love this time of the year man i love it can't get it you just take you can just take the stove out of it. Just hot Ryan Rosillo. It's all we need. Well, I'm glad you said it.

I'm glad you said it. But yeah, no, I still feel good. Still feel good about myself. All right, so let's start with Otani and probably stay there for a little while. There's a million questions. Let's try to do as much of it as we can. Was it always the Dodgers?

It looks that way, right? Yeah, it does. It looks that way because, you know, one of the most interesting parts of it, and we're going to get to the contract deferrals, all that. But it's interesting to me that Otani's agent, Nesbolelo, took the exact terms that they proposed to the Dodgers and then also brought it to the Blue Jays, to the Giants and to the Angels, like brought it to all of them and said, would you do this deal? And the Blue Jays came back and said, yes. The Giants came back and said, yes. The Angels came

back and said, no, because of course they're the Angels and they love nothing more than being a mediocre franchise. And he chose the Dodgers in the end. And not only did he choose the Dodgers, Ryan, but there's a key man clause in the contract where if Mark Walter, the owner, or Andrew Friedman, the president of baseball operations, leaves at any point, Otani can opt out after that year, which suggests that he believes that those people who were integral to the Dodgers' entire operation need to be there in order for him to want to be there, which would suggest that it was more than just the money. It was who the Dodgers are and what they can offer to him. That was the biggest selling point. I remember, I think it was one of your features on him because I know you've done a few and it really got into his,

didn't you visit him down in Newport beach and spend time with him? I wish I did. Now that was probably someone else because I've been trying, I've been trying to visit him in Newport Beach for six years now and just get stonewalled every time I trust me I have I have tried to finagle my way into access with Shohei Otani in every imaginable way and the one time that I got it and it was like two minutes of access was on the night of the world baseball classic final. He was walking from the samurai Japan clubhouse to the press conference room. And I somehow ended up side by side with him. And, you know, I, you don't know until you sit down with him,

how much English he actually speaks. Like his English is good. He's a funny guy. You know, he, there's a reason teammates like him. And I, and I just wanted like in that moment to say, you know, this is a really big deal. And that at bat against Mike Trout is going to be something that people remember for a long, long time. And it's going to be part of the lore, uh of the lore of not just this tournament, but your career. And he's like, you know, it's hard to realize that in the moment, but you could see the smile on his face still afterward. And it was in that moment that I knew for certain winning was going to be the priority for him above money, above all else, because it was clear how much he enjoyed that and how difficult the last five and eventually six years with the Angels, where they didn't even have a winning record, had been on him.

I apologize because I don't like I made that mistake. But I remember reading all this different Atani stuff because I couldn't get enough of it and it was somebody basically and I'm I apologize to the writer I'll have to find it later um who had spent time with him and he was kind of just taking us through his day and his routine and then how much he liked it so it's like okay so if he wants if he wants the same California experience but he doesn't want to do it with the Angels, you know, and it ends up being the Dodgers. But then we get to the $700 million. But then we learn that $68 million is deferred per season. So can you, in the best version of this, give us the best, like, bullet points

of what this contract actually is? Because it's not just the number that's historical. It is the actual payments. Okay. So let's start here. At the end of the day, 20 years down the road, the Los Angeles Dodgers will have paid Shohei Ohtani $700 million in United States cash. Like that is, you know, say what you will about all other things. At the end of the day, he will have gotten 700 million dollars from the Dodgers. Now, contracts are generally when money is deferred, looked at in terms of net present value, which is to suggest how much money today is that worth?

And if you put it in a bank and let it compound at 4.4%, which is the agreed upon number between MLB and the union, what would it take to equal $700 million? And so that number is 460 or so million. And that's the number that's going to be used for the luxury tax calculation. And that's the amount of money that the Dodgers are going to have to fund. Now, here's the part where it gets interesting, because the funding of this deferred money does not start until the July 1st, two years after the first season of the contract. So the Dodgers essentially do not have to start funding all of these deferred payments until July 1st, 2026. That means they get two and a half years,

Ryan, essentially to monetize everything about Otani and have this cash just pouring in because of the deals that they're going to make domestically and internationally because of him. And so it is very possible that the Dodgers will essentially over the next two and a half years where they have paid Otani in salary because it's only two million dollars a year, like four or five5 million at that point, there's a chance they will have enough money to fund the remainder of the contract and have it pay for itself because there are so many business opportunities and because Otani in Los Angeles is like a super charged version of what he was down in Anaheim. You know, you saw Andrew Friedman in the introductory press

conference essentially say, we want everyone in Japan to be wearing Dodger blue. That to me was maybe the most telling part of the entire thing, because what we have going on right now, and you see this with Yoshinobu Yamamoto, you're going to see it with Roki Sasaki and Munataka Murakami. There's a, I don't know if it's golden generation of Japanese baseball players right now, but they are really, really good at producing high end talent. And imagine if you are the Dodgers and you have the guy who is the most popular human being in that entire country, who is better known than everybody outside of the prime minister, who really embodies Japanese greatness in athletics and beyond. And he's going to be a Dodger for the next 10 years. And he is presumably going to win championships with the Dodgers. You have not just this entire generation of players now that reveres him because they played with him and he was their captain in the WBC and he did all the

amazing things he did there. But every kid growing up in Japan right now is going to see Shohei Ohtani on the Dodgers, become a Dodger fan and want to be a Dodger when they come over. So this is the kind of deal that when you see it stretched out over 20 years because of the deferrals, well, what they actually could be getting 20 years from now are benefits from this deal that's signed in 2023. So if you look at the finances of what Otani has made, he was half a million, 600 grand, and then you'd say probably 38, 40 million that he's made in the final three years of the Angels deal. So he's put some money away, but certainly not this kind of money. So then you have to find somebody that's going to agree to the deferred payment. Because as you point out with the math of what the real present day

value of the 700 million is, is that today's dollar is worth more than tomorrow's dollar. Then I looked at the motivation of it and you go, okay, well, the California state tax, if you're in his bracket, I looked at it again this morning, it's like a little over 13%. So he wouldn't be paying the state income tax on the money if he were to live somewhere else once the deferred payments come in based on the stuff that I saw. But it's like, okay, fine. But you still want to only be cash home $2 million a year? Oh, no, he's going to make endorsements. He's going to make all these other things. Was the motivation here to have the headline to say this is a $700 million player here? Because now that I figured it out and looked at it all, I'm still very shocked that anyone, certainly of his status, would be okay with this minimal number that's take home this early in the front end of the deal. We all know what the headline is.

I'm shocked he did this. I was too. And I still haven't gotten a great explanation beyond he wants the team to have flexibility to build around him, which is a noble idea theoretically. But let's be honest with what this is. It's Shohei Otani giving a break to a bunch of super rich billionaires, like saying to the Guggenheim Company and Mark Walter and Todd Boley and these mega rich people that I'm going to give you flexibility, that I'm going to, you know, I can't invest my own capital back into this team. So what I'm going to do is allow you the ability to invest your capital that you're not paying me to build around me. And we saw this almost immediately with the Dodgers trading for Tyler Glass now and giving him $135 million extension. That includes an upfront signing bonus and no deferrals. And we could see it with Yamamoto, though. You know, I think the Dodgers at this point probably are in terms of motivation behind the Mets and the Yankees on this.

Either way, I think we go back to this. Otani makes 50 plus million dollars a year off the field every year. And I think that number is only going to grow. And I think he got so tired of losing with the Angels that, you know, when, when it was said, he came up with this structure. Um, I think it's, I think there's some truth to that. You know, the Dodgers suggested that if it's going to get, you know, 600 plus million dollars, there may need to be some deferred money like there was with Mookie Betts or like there was with Freddie Freeman. But Andrew Friedman himself said, I never would have proposed a deal like this because it's absurd on its face. Like, how does 700 million equal 450 or 460 million? It's the power of the time value of money.

And it's the sort of thing, Ryan, that Otani said, that's not of concern to me. I have enough money right now. I'm going to get paid all of this. But if it is of concern to you, then please promise me that you will leverage this in the right way and help me get rings. And if there's a team in baseball that you're going to give the benefit of the doubt that they're going to do what they say, it is the Dodgers. And maybe that's why it makes a lot of sense. And I just think there's, I saw a lot of talk about like, no, it was brilliant because of the California state. I'm like, oh, really? So like, you're telling me, you know, you know, what's going to happen, Ryan, uh, guess who's going to start scrutinizing, uh,

what athlete contracts and deferred money look like. The California State Tax Board, like the notion that this, if you want to call it a loophole or whatever, is not going to be closed almost instantaneously. And that you think California is going to let $700 million in potential tax revenue escape the state without anything? No chance. It will be closed in due time and whatever this loophole was, maybe it'll apply for the first few years. But I can't imagine Otani is going to be running away like a bandit with a stick on his shoulder and a satchel full of money. Like, I got you, tax board. Right. It's just that it's two of 70 million is the take home. It's two of 70. So it's not, you know, I'm aware of

deferred money. I think I remember Frank Thomas decades ago who had had deferred money from the White Sox. Then like holding court one day, it was like, yeah, I actually want my money now. It was like, wait, what? Like you actually, I've got to double check that. But I remember just the absurdity of it was like, yeah, I know what I agreed to, but you know what? I actually don't want. I'd like my money now, please. And you're like, oh. If you win the lottery, you know what you do? You take the love sum. Right, right. Exactly. This is Otani taking the payment plan. Okay. So once people figured out what this deal was like, what did other teams in baseball say to you? It depends on the size of the market. The large market teams were like, you know what,

this is within the rules and good for the Dodgers for leveraging them. Like respect to them for getting a deal like this. It is, it's, it's wild to say it's almost oxymoronic, but this is a club-friendly $700 million deal. It is, though. It is. It is. And what it does is it gives them cash flow flexibility over the next two-plus years. And it gives them CBT flexibility beyond what the peak of this contract could have been. The CBT is not quite as much.

That's the competitive balance tax or the luxury tax. And I think coming into this, the expectation was that Otani was going to get $550 million, $600 million, maybe over 10, 11, 12 years. So we're talking like a $5 million to $10 million, maximum $15 million discount on the CBT compared to what the expectation of the contract was. Uh, but man, it's, you know, it's one of those deals that I love because it just shows how confusing this stuff can be and, and how you need, you need to explain it really well to let fans know. One day it was, oh my God, the Dodgers need to be abolished for spending $700 million. 24 hours later, oh my God, this rule allows the Dodgers to go out and do this thing that nobody else can. Now, clearly the Giants would have done this deal.

Clearly the Blue Jays would have done this deal. Frankly, Ryan, the Rays could have done this deal. All 30 teams in baseball, except apparently the Angels, would gladly take Otani for a deal like this. would gladly take Otani for a deal like this. But I respect the guy because let's remember what his history is. He could have waited two years, come over to MLB at 25, and been a full free agent and gotten hundreds of millions of dollars.

Instead, he came over at 23, was subject to international amateur signing rules, and received $2.3 million as a signing bonus, and came to the big leagues and was in pre-arbitration and near the minimum for the first three seasons. And then he signed his first arbitration deal. It was for two years and it was well under market. And then rather than go into the arbitration system in his final year, where he could have theoretically blown the whole thing up, he settled at $30 million, a number that's going to be broken this year by Juan Soto. And so never before have his priorities been aligned with extracting the most money possible out of his towns. This deal, honestly, is par for the course with him. And I think that he got so tired of losing with the Angels

that he essentially said, fuck it. I want to go somewhere that I can win. I'm going to be rich either way. Let me get some gold on my fingers while getting plenty rich as I can. He's not going to pitch next year. And that leads to, I want to ask a Yamamoto question at some point, but the Glasnow trade goes through. Glasnow is probably one of my favorite pitchers to watch when he's actually pitching. The problem is the last three years, it's like 214 innings pitched. They have names still in the rotation. You want to talk about bad rotation luck based on talent?

When I'll look at some of the Dodgers pitchers, I'm like, oh, that's right. They got that guy. I forgot they have that guy, and that guy's been hurt. I think Dustin was hurt last year for a while, and then it's like, oh. It seems like there is a best-case scenario for them, but adding that kind of arm

despite the health history here, as you pointed out in the news, they had to pay him. I love how aggressive it is because when that guy's on, he's unhittable. I was going to say, when Tyler Glass now is healthy, he might have the best stuff in baseball. And I think the way that the Dodgers are looking at this is they're hoping that he's their Zach Wheeler.

I know Zach Wheeler pitched more for the Mets before he signed with the Phillies, but the terms of the deal are very similar. And the Phillies were betting on the upside of the arm. And Zach Wheeler's arguably been the best pitcher in baseball since he signed there. You know, it's been like him and Garrett Cole. He's got innings. He's got strikeouts. The stuff has maintained.

He's been nails in the playoffs. And if Tyler Glass now stays healthy for a full season, let's remember the most innings he's thrown in his career, Ryan was last year and it was 120. If he can stay healthy for a full season, I have no doubt he will win a Cy Young. Like that's how good the stuff is. That's how polished he is. He strikes a ton of dudes out. He doesn't walk anyone. It's just been injuries have been the bugaboo. But the Dodgers, they can play in that high-risk area. That's when middle and lower-tier markets complain about those upper-tier payrolls,

the Dodgers, the Yankees, the Red Sox, the $200 plus million annual payrolls. What they're really complaining about is the ability that that money affords you to make a mistake. Because if Glasnow isn't the guy that the Dodgers think he is, isn't the guy that the Dodgers think he is, they can withstand that. They can survive that. It's sunk cost. It sucks, but they're not going to be all that much worse for the wear because they do everything else so well. They draft extraordinarily well. They develop players extraordinarily well. Their sports science department and their analytics department are second to none. They are the Dodgers of the model organization. And I think a lot of that goes back to Otani's predilection for signing there. I think he cares about that stuff. In the meeting with the Dodgers, he was asking, tell me about your farm system. Who's there? Who do I need to know about? How have you hacked this? How have you figured out this seemingly impossible thing, which is regularly drafting and developing players, even though you're picking at the back end of the first round every single year?

at the back end of the first round every single year. A question on Yamamoto. I know the resume. I've seen the videos. He's won what the equivalent of the Japanese Cy Young is, three straight years. And finding any of these top-end guys now, because it's just different. What they are now in today's game, you could argue, well, because it's not as important, maybe that means that handful of guys are even more important than they've ever been, that they can actually carry you and scare the hell out of an opposing lineup in the playoffs. Like I just remember it wasn't that long ago when you start

matching up teams, you're like, okay, but who's pitching game three? Like, look how much of an advantage that team has with their game three start. Now I don't even bother. I don't look like what's the game three matchup of a playoff series in baseball? Like it's TBD, like 48 hours before the game. It's TBD versus TBD. It's Johnny Holstaff. I mean, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. So, you know, as I sit there and, you know, have these moments where I go, is that ace still the ace?

Or is the ace even more than he was before, despite we're just not going to get, you know, 270, 300 innings out of him anymore, which is its own thing. So, you know, I always thought the dice game at Suzaku thing was fascinating because the internet worked in 2006, like it worked pretty well. And he was still thought of as like a mythological being. And, you know, the gyro ball, which was just, you know, it was like, wait, if no one else in the world can do it, why can he do it? Do we have video? Like what? And then he comes over and you're like, eh, he just, he was determined to never give in on the count. And it's going to lead to a lot of long counts and some nights where there's just a lot of base runners. There's a

fluky season in there where, you know, he's 18 and three in his second year. I lived through those starts, you know, like whatever. So the point that I'm making is that in 2006, 2000, we, we had enough access to information that we, we shouldn't have believed the lore of what he was going to be. Part of it could have been a personality thing. Maybe it's even a Boston thing. And yet I'm thinking in 2023, could we be tricked again? Could Yamamoto, like, okay, so you're shaking your head. So just take it from here then, because I'm not even going to ask the specific question. I want to leave it open to you. If you understand where I'm going with this though.

Yeah, here's why we can't be tricked again. Because in those interceding 15 years, Ryan, between Matsuzaka and Yamamoto, real pitch tracking has become a thing. And so we now understand everything about every pitch that's being thrown by a guy from the time. I mean, like my kid is 16. He's a pitcher. I will not let him throw in front of a track man or in front of a rap Soto, which are the two like main machines that, you know, are used because I don't want it getting into his head. The idea that pitch shape spin, et cetera, is more important now than learning to compete and go out there and get outs and grind. That's all like, that's all the sort of stuff that when you have reached

an elite level, you can start looking at. And that's what they're looking at with Yamamoto because the numbers are otherworldly. I mean, we're talking like low one ERAs almost every year and doesn't walk anyone and strikes guys out. I think he gave up two home runs and 160 plus innings last year. Um, the, the stuff is, the stuff is nasty. Like I had someone tell me, um, that the fastball right now is probably a top five percentile or so 95th percentile fastball sits at 96 can run it up to 99. The curveball I was told will be the best right handed curveball among starting pitchers in baseball. And so it's up there with, you know, like Seth Lugo known for his curveball. It's a nasty pitch. Yamamoto's is better. And it's not even a second best pitch.

for his curveball. It's a nasty pitch. Yamamoto's is better. And it's not even a second best pitch. That's, that's probably the fastball because the split finger is a lot like Kodai Sango's, you know, the ghost fork, like just this pitch that's at 90 miles an hour and disappears when it arrives at the plate and he throws slider cutter as well. I mean, the stuff is genuinely elite, but how he gets it is the part that fascinates me the most because he is five foot 10 and about 175 pounds. And he does not lift weights. I mean, when I say he does not lift weight, he doesn't lift anything. He is fully into stretching, lift anything. He is fully into stretching, flexibility, body weight movements, yoga. He has learned to put his body in the best positions to impart force on a baseball and make it do wonderful, miraculous things. And it's the same sort of thing that we saw from Tim Lincecum. And it's the same sort of thing that we saw from Pedro Martinez. And I hate throwing comps like

that on a guy who hasn't thrown a single pitch in major league baseball. But when you look at the size and the ability to do what he does and manipulate the baseball the way he does, ability to do what he does and manipulate the baseball the way he does, those are the only two comparisons I think are right. I don't know if Yoshinobu Yamamoto is going to win multiple Cy Youngs like both of those guys, but what I do know is he's going to be an absolute force when he comes over here. And the Yankees and Mets and Dodgers and Red Sox and Phillies and Blue Jays and Giants are all lining up to pay him goo gobs of money because of his ability to do that. Would he want to sign with a mid-market team like Boston? It's funny because it's true. I mean, those other cities, those are major players. I just wonder if you'd want to kind of hang out in a city that just baseball is not as big.

I mean, it has not been a great offseason for the Sox so far. They have time. They have time. I do wonder what the move there is, though. I really do. Because if they, I mean, is it Blake Snell? Is it Jordan Montgomery? Is it Cody Bellinger?

Is it Matt Chapman? Or is it none of the above, potentially? I mean, is Shota Imanaga, you know, another Japanese pitcher, left-hander, doesn't have quite the stuff of Yamamoto or Otani. He's good. I mean, is that the move? And what do the Red Sox want to be before Roman Anthony and Marcelo Meyer and Kyle Teal get to the big leagues? Because I will say this, Ryan, those three are all foundational players, and they're not far right now. So I feel like this is almost one of those transition years for the Red Sox where getting out over their skis may be the wrong move, but not doing anything is just going to inflame a fan base that already is pretty swollen with inflammation at this point. Jeff, you're the best. Enjoy the holidays, man. And thanks for taking the time with us. All right.

Pleasure is always mine, Ryan. Appreciate you having me, buddy. You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So, now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Life Advice, the email address. Hit us up.

Holiday season. LifeAdviceRR at gmail.com. A little two-man weave today. Cerruti is off. It's just Kyle. What is good, my friend? Yeah, you know, kicking it old school. Shout out to Mexico Steve.

Hope he has a great time and at least one good story. Mexico Steve. I like it. I like it. Okay, so we got a follow-up from our guy from the Netherlands on the office Christmas party. And let's clarify a couple of things here. All right, because it's now been a week. Hopefully our guy's feeling a little bit better.

He said, hi, I just want to follow up and add some more info if you guys are interested. Oh, we're interested. First, I want to say this did happen in the Netherlands. Eidhoven? I think you did a great job there. That's what I would have said. All right.

The email that I sent you guys was the first time actually telling someone the experience because I couldn't tell anyone else. I was so embarrassed. So basically during the week, three or four guys that I'm closest to while talking about work tried to ask me about Friday as they also didn't remember the last part of the night. I am probably okay since no one from HR said anything. Dude, I really don't think anyone from HR is going to say anything to you about going to a bar after an office Christmas party, unless you were just like, you know, out of like, to be drunk is one thing to actually have an incident. Unless your puke is on someone else's shirt too. Like, you know what I mean?

But I'm still waiting for the end of the month to be sure. I don't think you're going to have to worry about it with the holidays. Don't do this to yourself. Yeah. Not during the holiday season. Right. Nobody's going to be like, we're going to hammer this guy on January 3rd. They sent this picture attached within our work group chat.

I'm the guy with the peace sign. Yeah. Last call peace sign. The guy that said, hey, Friday got crazy is the second from the right. He looks like he's having a great time. That button down is working overtime. We've got a little bit of a werewolf London look to him. I think there's a chain there.

There's a lot of moisture. And we're about, he might be at the equator of buttons. So, yeah, like it might be three or four undone with three or four on the other side. I also opened my Google maps history and saw that I left the bar at 3 10 AM and Google maps show that I wandered for three hours through the city, walking about 5.4 miles, got my cardio in NBD before going home at 6 a.m. All in all, I wouldn't recommend the experience to anyone. Thank you for the laughs.

Signing off, Blackout Crew. All right. The best part about the picture is that that also should make it feel good is there's five dudes in that picture. His eyes are maybe the third most drunkest eyes in that picture. Definitely, you could make a case that he's second most, but he's definitely not the first most. And that's good too.

Yeah, the guy that asked him, hey, Crazy Friday, was doing the same thing that you've been doing, but he did it out loud. He asked that question every Monday, by the way. So don't worry. The scene looks great. This is not you at a Chili's. This isn't the Dundies at 8 PM acting like this.

You went to the after party and you kept it going. The funny thing is all the women in the picture, uh, they're smiling and they look way more sober than all the dudes are. But look, when, when you're talking about that region, the men go hard.

That's my scouting report. The men go hard. So, uh scouting report. The men go hard. So anything else to add, Kyle? Case closed. What about happy ending? Yeah. I mean, any good is exercise. So, all right.

Let's see. We had a lot of people following up on the guy posting up women all the time. He actually even chimed in. Maybe we'll save that. We'll save that for later. Okay. Let's do this. Let's do expressing your feelings. 6'2", 200 pounds, bench 160, maybe. Get those numbers up. Comparable to Dennis Rodman on the court. Can't shoot, can't dribble, can make a decent pass here and there, but damn it. Do I have a vertical and long arm so I rebound like crazy oh crazy vert I'm not an emotionally expressive guy I think words are overused and undervalued in this arena how can you say you

love hot dogs and then also say you love your wife got a real poet here yeah you ever thought about it that way yeah do I even love my wife when i think about how much i love the pats i mean really i never thought about these things that's so good i almost think this is a joke but we'll keep reading it um do you love the wife more or less than the hot dogs i've never said i love you to anyone family included it just doesn't really mean anything to me i'm sure this is a product of my upbringing my mom was expressive but was a narc and always ratted me out to my dad for when I got into fights at school so she couldn't be trusted. I've turned this franchise around, mind you.

I'm a lawyer. I make a decent living, so I'm not a barroom brawler or a bum or anything. Not with those bench numbers. You're just getting into fights all the time, though, when you were younger. Then you would tell your dad and your dad and your mom, or you would tell your mom and then she would tell whatever. Yeah, again, you're a lawyer now. I think some now i think simply fine my dad was old school type of guy other than ass kickings when mom ratted me out kid stuff was not my dad's job if my mom was out of town and my dad

was in charge he said my brother and i age eight and ten uh my first memory of this to us to school in a cab because he didn't know where we went to school. That surprised you'd want to pay for it. If you were that old school, that's, that's pretty crazy. If you don't know where the school is anyway, in spite of my emotional inexpressiveness, I've been dating an impossibly patient girl for three years now, never expressed a single feeling to her, but somehow she gets it and puts up with her. I puts up with it. I show her my feelings through acts of kindness, surprises, flowers, other nonverbal ways. We have a great time together and she's an absolutely fantastic teammate, but she still does wish I'd be more

verbally expressive. Seems to be a thing for the ladies. Therapists have had their opinions on this, but I wanted a normal guy view on things, despite it not feeling too many feelings or expressing them. Cue foreigners. I want to know what love is. Would you fake it and say to your lady anyway, even though you feel like you're being disingenuous and only saying it because you know it'll make your lady happy? Or is the disingenuous too manipulative? I can definitely live with the disingenuous,

more concerned for her thinking that I'm being manipulative. All right. Yeah, the guy, look, the hot dog thing now actually makes more sense. This guy's good. He's good. But he says words are overused and undervalued.

Man, this guy might be onto something. Let's let you go first here because you're in love. So this is not the classic, like, I don't, I have trouble saying

I love you because don't even write into life advice with that. You figure that shit out, man. I mean, I don't know what to say about that. If it's like, I can't say the words I love you, figure't even write into life advice with that. You figure that shit out, man. I mean, I don't know what to say about that. If it's, if it's like, I can't say the words, I love you figure that out, dude. Sorry. You know, give your dad a couple of hugs, see if it comes back to you. But I think like, I think if it's not that, if it's just like stuff,

like in general where she's like, she's expressing, she'd like me to be like more verbally, you know, positive towards her or whatever. I think there's nothing disingenuous about it just because you don't want to say it. It doesn't mean you don't mean it. Right. I mean, I say shit all the time that I like, you know, don't want to say, but it's like, it's better off for everyone. If I say this stuff, when we're talking about responding to stories that I'm completely lost in, or, you know, discussing about stuff hanging on the wall, or there's this really cool picture frame, she wants to get like, I don't really want to talk. It's not disingenuous because I'm engaging in that conversation it's just i know she'd be

happier if i do it so i think you got to stop looking at it as like you know you're breaking your principles your morals are crumbling if you're like you know placating the woman that you've been with for three years and you know would like to move forward with like it's not it's not that serious like you're not you don't have to explain yourself to to yourself if you're like just gonna say like hey you look really nice today or like well i don't know just whatever you know the shit she wants to hear so i'd say i think i think dudes have been saying shit that their uh wife girlfriend wants to hear for centuries if not millennia and i don't think uh i think you should just get on board and you won't feel that bad about it yeah Yeah. I feel like you're examining this a little too intensely to, by, you know, by saying like, Oh, because I'm not comfortable with this,

or it's not normally what I would do. Like clearly if you've been with her for three years, whatever your version of love is or whatever your, your idea of this, like you it's cutting it, right? Yeah. It's, it's happened. Okay. It's happened. It doesn't mean you have to do that. Everything has to be a cuddle fest. It doesn't mean you have to, everything has to be a cuddle fest. It doesn't mean you have to do, I think a lot of times with the love bombing shit, that's actually way more disingenuous than taking your time to do the nice things.

It's cool when the beginning, and it's so exciting, and you want to make all the right impressions, but you also don't want to peak after 60 60 days and then it's just a downhill slide. Right. The slow descent down Everest the rest of the way. Yeah. Now you're underperforming the last month of the probation period, right?

Right. So I don't, I don't think that, but I mean, back to kind of like the point that I wanted to make is, is why does this have to be so intense? Why do you have to counter your own philosophy on this? Right. Clearly she just wants you to share a little bit more. Like, man, it is, um, you can have like an epiphany in a relationship where you may see it one way, you may see it the other way. Like, I remember there was this guy that he used to work with and he just did an incredibly

well with women. He was just awesome at it. And then I was like, I was like, they don't get pissed at you. I was like, they he used to work with and he just did incredibly well with women. He was just awesome at it. And then I was like, I was like, they don't get pissed at you. I was like, they always seem to get pissed at me. He's like,

man, he goes just from the jump. Like I just tell him like, I'm not into labeling anything. I was like, Oh, so they're on their toes. Right.

Yeah. So I'm like, yeah, but that must be kind of shitty for them. Right. He's like, Oh yeah, no doubt.

No doubt. He's like, but I've just, I just tell him from the jump like you know if they ask me like what are we doing or whatever like i'm i'm not real really into labels it's like no you just don't want to admit what it is because the label of what you're actually doing is not the label and not into consequences is what it is right like oh i'm just gonna be a bullpen i'm gonna be the lefty on a friday and then you're gonna go to righty on saturday like nobody nobody would go hey i'm seeing this guy but i'm one of five people he's seeing but he's not in the label so it's fucking cool so you're you're so far past all of that that that's not even what this is i'm just wondering why do you have to get in the way of you clearly feeling great about this woman by wondering

if by you expressing this to her with you which you have a hard time with that you're then kind of like violating your own code letting yourself down yeah by being i don't i actually don't think you should be this hard on yourself like Like you don't have an upbringing that was like, it wasn't a house filled with love. You may have loved each other. You may have supported each other. It wasn't outward love. And so that's just not who you are. I think men tend to be more like that than women do. Uh, that's based on my experience. But then if you're with a woman who eventually like gets to the point where you're like, you know, I never know where you're at. I never know how you feel. Like people actually need to feel this stuff every now and then. Like, look, I'll make a, a, an analogy that may make sense to some of

you or not, but like, look, as an on-air person who's done this for two decades now, I know I'm good. I know I'm good at it. Right. But it doesn't hurt every now and then to hear from somebody that's either in charge or that you work with. I'm talking like once a year, maybe twice a year to go, hey, you were fucking great on that show or that interview was incredible. That's something for the managers out there. You may have the top, but every now and then, nobody's bummed out to hear about how great they're doing. The person, when I was younger, I wanted to hear it more. I was insecure about how I was doing. Maybe I'd be looking for that confirmation of, hey, am I doing a good job or whatever,

And so maybe I'd be looking for that confirmation of, hey, am I doing a good job or whatever? But I'll never be at a point in my career where I won't appreciate hearing it. And so on a much more serious level of what you're talking about here is you may be that manager that's like, why do I need to tell you how great you are when you are great at what you're doing already? That's what the money's for. Yeah, right. But it's still awesome to hear, man. That's what the money's for. Yeah. Right. But it's still awesome to hear, man. It's still awesome to hear. So don't, don't get in your own head about like,

well, if I'm not really wired this way, then that I do it. Isn't that being worse because it's actually disingenuous. Like why even add all that into this? Just try to understand why she needs to hear it more than zero times. Yeah. You're not letting yourself down. Yeah. Yeah. Your dad's not gonna be like,

Hey, uh, we got to talk. I heard you said you love your girlfriend. Uh, all right. Do we do this? Yeah.

I mean, I know the jokes will follow, uh, Montana solo trip, although technically that's not really the one you can make fun of. 30 years old, single. I'm taking my first solo trip at the end of the month. I'm traveling to Montana to check out Yellowstone.

I'm flying into Bozeman and staying in West Yellowstone for three nights where I'm doing a snowmobile and snowshoe tour. My last day is open. I think I'm going back to Bozeman, hang out there for a day and check out the bar scene. Any advice for a first time solo traveler or something you recommend doing in the area? Um, he says also 10 years ago that he saw me in Tallahassee at a bar and offered me a shot. And I said, no, immediately. Um, and there's, there's one bar in Tallahassee where i think i was there with like 30 different guys i said they own the place which was really hard to keep track of yes that's great i didn't say no that night uh anyway look solo traveling is not for everybody we've covered this i think it's great man when i can just go hey i can leave now or i can go somewhere else like somebody else

was asking me recently like can i go on one of these trips with you? I'm like, I don't know. I also wonder if people like wonder if I'm like really into prostitutes and heroin. Like that's why. Take quarterly trips, just let it all out. Yeah, just go like Thailand crazy. I don't think I would podcast. I don't think I would do travel logs

if that were my deal. It would just be like podcasting. I feel like it would take a backseat to that stuff. Um, again, you know, don't really know. So the thing is you already sound like you have some stuff that you have activities planned. So you'll probably meet people during these activities. And that's like a leg up already. If you're solo guy, but you're with a group in this, I would imagine people are going to ask you to do this. I'm well aware of Yellowstone. I have not ever stayed there. It is, by all accounts, like an incredible setup. And for those who don't know, it's part of these properties that, you know, high-end, high-end, high-end stuff. high-end high-end high-end stuff uh the bar there the golf courses and you're going to the winter like i've never heard anybody but i don't know that you're necessarily like staying in there in

there uh i don't know all the geographical lines of that area i loved big sky when i went i went during the summer i started in bozeman i drove all the way down the river and ended up in big sky and i like again solo traveler i like big sky so much i was like i think i'm just gonna hang out here for a few days but again i was there in the summer i also you know looked at real estate just because i like to do that kind of stuff and the guy was like well let's you know i told him what i did he's like let's start in yellowstone i was like yeah we're not gonna we're not gonna waste anybody's time over there there was a couple dive bars near the town that i just kind of checked out whatever it was great it was a lot of fun it was funny too because the guys are like what do you

think i was like this place is awesome and they were like don't tell anybody you know it's like a real like prideful like we're not aspen we're big sky so it's definitely uh despite the yellowstone part of it the town itself is really small little pizza place little theater like really quaint and cool and i love the river part of it because I was fishing pretty much every day that I was there. The hiking part of it, it can get a little weird. Like I hiked up to this lake that was, I think, three miles above this trail or something. And it was this lake that was just kind of suspended, which again, there's tons of stuff like that out there. It was worth it. It was incredible. But I would say if you're hiking solo with the animal life around you, like just be, you know, just have your head on a swivel. And if you can catch up to another group figuring, hey, I can outrun this group of a bears around.

No problem. But basically everybody, when I was hiking out there, everybody that I ran into had a gun on them. Yeah. Did you just like rent it like hiking gun rentals or something? I don't think it works that way uh i don't probably not i don't not like it hurts you drop it off at a different one at the end i'll tell you what it made me want one pretty bad though because i was like do i because i'd have my fishing stuff with me and i find a little water i would go hey like could you just stop here and i would but i would you know

any fucking noise especially when you're not like you know again i live in pretty populated areas so you you don't you know you hear i can twig snap and you're like what's that over there where you know the people that are local are like just way better at it because it's their life it's their environment so um i would say night in Bozeman and I, I felt like I was going back in time a little where it felt like people really like driving down that main street and their trucks over and over and over again. And then I went to another bar where dudes, there were a lot of dudes and they were getting after it, but it was a lot of dudes and overalls and like the yin yang twins came on place went fucking crazy and you were like you know seniorita timber lake was was

a big crowd favorite that one right but i mean those those songs are like 15 years old which again not knocking it or whatever i'm just telling you that's your scene uh it was it was it was a rowdy crew like as a solo guy you're probably not going to be invited to hang out with any of those guys because they don't want to meet you they just got done with a 12-hour shift and now it's time to you know listen to some little john you know just yelling what the whole time and some cards. So I liked it, but I knew there was never going to be any like, and again, I'm older anyway. So, you know, nobody's like, Hey stranger, hang out with us the whole time. So big sky loved, I don't know the difference between the winter. And so, well, I guess I can guess it, but I wasn't there during

the winter. Um, but enjoy the freedom. Yes, there'll be loneliness, but enjoy the freedom of it because you can decide you wake up and you get to do whatever you want to do that day. Don't take that for granted. Kyle, you ever do any solo travel? I thought I did for work, maybe. But now I did something. The only true solo trip, I think it was I had a summer court date in Potsdam and no one was there.

And there was like a guy who I stayed at his apartment. I had to be there for three days. And it was the worst trip I've ever taken. There was no one around. Potsdam, beautiful in the summer. You never really get to be there otherwise. But I was just so bummed about it. I was staying on some dude's couch.

He wanted nothing to do with me. So I would just walk around, went to the bagel shop. I think my fake ID was stolen in the whole court incident anyway. So it was like, I couldn't even go like go to a bar by myself. There was no parties. It was just like being in this kind of deserted town. It was really sad. So that was my only solo trip. Why did he let you stay with him? It was a friend of a friend who I was just like, man, I have to be up there for like two days. Like, can I, it's a five hour trip up. Like I can't, I can't do it in the same day.

Like I just need a place. Everyone was gone. He was like, well, my friend, I think is staying there and taking a summer classes, but he didn't really know me. And, you know, we had to kind of beg to get this done. And, uh, I just stayed with, with the guy like in his like living room. And he like, I don't know, never even made eye contact with me. So you just sat on his couch for two days with nothing to do.

I did a lot of walking. There's a St. Lawrence River. I did a lot of walking, stayed there, smoked a bunch of cigarettes there. Just like, God, this is the longest two days ever. Yeah. What was the verdict? It got dropped out of the misdemeanor. Shout out to Vern, my lawyer, old man.

Really, really, I guess a good job. I think that took way longer than it needed to. But like I said, everyone knew this was a misunderstanding, but you know, had to go through the courts, had to run it up the flagpole, whatever they say. So, I know, I know. Big misunderstanding. Glad it worked out. Yeah.

That's life advice. Thanks to Kyle. Thanks for Oregon on the show today. We'll be back on Monday. As always, Ryan Russell podcast. We'll be right back. FanDuel is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit fanduel.com forward slash RG in Colorado, Iowa, Kentucky, Michigan, New Jersey, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Tennessee, and Virginia. Call 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 in Arizona. 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org forward slash chat in Connecticut. 1-800-9-WITH-IT in Indiana. 1-800-522-4700 or visit ksgamblinghelp.com in Kansas. 1-877-770-STOP in Louisiana. Visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Visit 1-800-GAMBLER.NET in West Virginia or call 1-800-522-4700 in Wyoming. Hope is here. Visit GamblingHelpLineMA.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call

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