The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Courtside in Boston, College Football Playoffs, and MLB Free Agency With Jeff Passan | The Ryen Russillo Podcast

Episode Date: December 13, 2019

Russillo talks about attending Thursday night’s Sixers-Celtics game in Boston (01:30). Then, ESPN’s Jeff Passan calls in to discuss the latest in the world of MLB free agency (11:00) and Ryen wraps up the show with his thoughts on the College Football Playoff system (52:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

happy hot stove season. I'm pretty excited. We're going to talk some baseball with Jeff Passan, and no one liked the hot stove as much as your boy back in the day. I am back in Boston. I was at the Celtics-Sixers game last night. There was a picture of me going around from the game. We will get to.

I had a good time, though, and we're going to do a little bit on that college football playoff, expanding to eight, what we really would be signing up for. Because I really think everybody that says it's like, yeah, eight teams. And then you start looking at who the eight teams would be and what the matches should be. And be like, I'm not sure I actually would want that. All right. So, but I do know that I sound like a communist when I do that. Actually, a communist would want more teams, wouldn't they? Want it all even? Yeah. So I don't sound like a communist. I sound like an elitist. When it comes to college football, I think I am an elitist. Okay. Today's show of the Ryan Russolo show is brought to you by State Farm.

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Now I feel like a bad stand-up comedian. But trying to leave Logan and then get to Back Bay, it was almost as long as the flight. I mean, it was really, really that bad. So it set some things back. And I had one friend that I was lining up to a buddy. We'll call him Hal. And he was going to come to the Celtics game with me.

And I didn't know how good the seats were going to be, so shout out to the seats. But they were courtside underneath the basket. And it's an incredible vantage point to watch the game in almost a different way. It's not as revealing maybe as the All-22, because I don't think we necessarily need that for basketball. But there's certain things that you see from that vantage point that are incredible. But my friend couldn't make it last minute. that for basketball, but there's certain things that you see from that vantage point that are incredible. But my friend couldn't make it last minute and sitting next to me was supposed to be, and eventually was, one of the offensive linemen of the Patriots. And so I sat courtside for almost

the first quarter by myself in four seats with three of them empty around me. And Dave Portnoy took a picture of me and put it on Twitter. And I knew as soon as I sat down, I was like, I'm going to start getting heckled left and right because I'm a lone guy. I'm solo guy. We were just talking about it with Chris Long. How what can you do by yourself? And I'm just like, look, I do a lot of stuff by myself. It wasn't I didn't set out to be this way.

I didn't say like in my early 20s, you know what I want to do? Be by myself all the time. But I've had a good run of being by myself. And so once that happened, I was like, this is this is going to be funny. So he was like, hey, there's Ursula with all of his friends. The tweet went out. It was an interesting night on Twitter. And anyway, that led to

a lot of jokes. And that's okay. That's okay, because I had a great time watching that game. Couple observations. Embed in person is worth admission. The price of admission. He is just... There's a different...

The way we talk about athletes, I think we're very... I don't think we're very good at it in the way we talk about athletes. I think we see a certain body type, usually black, skinny, long, and we're like, sick athlete, when we start projecting NBA draft picks.

I'm certain of it. The Michael Gilchrist thing for me, after finally watching him in just a draft setting of just, and you can pretend I do or don't, I don't care if you believe me or don't believe me in how much work I put into it, but watching him over and over again, I go, you know what? Actually not a great athlete. If I said to you, Dwight Howard, not a great athlete, you'd go, what are you, nuts? Are you kidding me? Look at his shoulders, look at his burst, look at peak Dwight Howard. Look how high he was able to get up. Remember when he would touch the top of the backboard,

and then there was some sticker, and they're like, there's no way you can get that now, and he, like, touched beyond that. But, you know, an athlete is also, it's the powerful things, it's the movement, but it's also quicker twitch stuff. It's side to side. It's the difference between a corner that runs fast

but can't turn his hips, and a corner who maybe doesn't run as fast, but it has Darrell Rivas mirroring technology where he looks like he is absolutely in sync. There's no missed movement there. Dwight Howard can't catch and back you down with a dribble with anything that looked fluid even at his peak. Now, he's been awesome with the Lakers. Now he is everything he's beyond what you would hope for beyond what I would think he would bring to this team, but he's been awesome. And I actually think LeBron using him the way he does is a big part of this, but it's a little bit like a guy who can play guitar and sing, play piano and sing, uh, versus the guy that can only play the instrument, right? Like not everybody can do both. And with Dwight, he'd be somebody with the ball where it's like, okay, robotic movement, robotic movement. Okay. Carl Anthony Towns for his size is incredible

running end to end, but he's not always this quick twitch guy. Michael Gilchrist, again, was one of these guys where I'm like, you know what? I actually don't think he's this amazing athlete. And Embiid, the reason I'm bringing this up is Embiid is all of these things. For his size and the finesse, the touch, the footwork. Now, I don't love him as I'm sure this up is Embiid is all of these things for his size and the finesse the touch the footwork now I don't love him as I'm sure Sixers fans don't love watching him contested post possessions because it can get ugly and it does happen it happened at the end of the Denver game on a bad possession but he does have all of those things he can play the guitar and sing at the same time and seeing it and I've seen him in person now a couple of times,

but it's really special. And the Sixers didn't have Horford, the Celtics didn't have Marcus Smart, and that's turning into some issues because the Celtics are doing some things offensively where they weren't losing before and now they lost back-to-back games. Tatum was terrible. Hayward was really good. I would tell you that Kemba, seeing Kemba in person from the end, he actually doesn't get enough credit for his change of direction. Like, Derrick Rose is kind of the peak of what I want my guy to look like. Like, when Derrick Rose was peak Derrick Rose, coming out of Memphis, those first few years of Chicago, and what you wanted out of a guard back then,

more so than now, it's like, hey, can he shoot or can he not shoot and stretch the defense but there was something to be said about like the five guys that could get anywhere on the court with their dribble and athleticism and Rose was probably at his best the best in the NBA and that's why he was so special winning MVP and like these all these versions of it and I'm you know Chicago fans remember but it's kind of easy to forget and to think that this is what he is now after all of these injuries. And Rose has been really, really good, man. I'm happy for him despite those years where you're like, what is this guy's deal? But Kemba needs to be talked about in that top group of special players,

change of direction, shaking people, because it's insane. We know this, but seeing it, it was a little bit different. And Mathis Theibel, Jalen Brown had a few possessions where he couldn't get past Theibel. Couldn't get past him. Just couldn't. Theibel's form, the way he's up, his footwork, his hands out, can test even if you think you get some separation from him. It is awesome stuff. And now he's hitting threes. But Kemba had a few things where he just gets you going one way and then the other way, and he was shaking everybody. So anyway, Sixers is a better team.

They should be beating the Celtics, even though the Celtics, it's just different. It's just different that's now post Kyrie. And you can think that's just a Boston guy who hates Kyrie. And I would tell you I did not enjoy last year's experience. And guess who else didn't? The entire Celtics organization. So top five fan bases that are getting really annoying right now in the NBA.

I may do that. I think I may do that. I could say it's all in fun, but I'm not sure. Because the Celtics, Boston fans in general always get all sorts of heat because, hey, you guys are messing with Patrick Mahomes' brother and his girlfriend. Let me just tell you this. Boston fans don't like each other.

They fight each other at title parades. So the fact that opposing people feel like, oh, this place is really rough, it's not great when everybody's on the same side. Okay. And like I've said numerous times, the only thing Boston fans hate more than, or just Boston guys hate more than unwarranted attention is warranted attention. And I even had a little bit of it coursing through the veins last night. You know, I'm not a true Boston guy, although I lived here for a while. I went to leave the arena last night and there's two exits you can go out of, two you can't, one I knew. And I just sort of randomly got up,

left my seats, said goodbye to a couple of people and went through the tunnel trying to leave the arena. And I walked behind these two guys in suits and they freaked out on me. They were like, wait a minute, who's this guy? Where does he think he's going? He's not with us. Get out. And I was like, hey, everybody can calm down a little bit. And I did start feeling that thing where I was like, okay, am I about to get confrontational here? And then a guy was like, you can't go through here. I don't know who he is or what he thinks he's doing. I was like, I'm just trying to leave, man.

And then somebody did recognize me. And they're like, hey, yeah. They're like, this is just, this is the other two. I was like, oh, my bad. I picked the wrong one. I had a one in three chance of getting it wrong. And I got it wrong. And I was like, who are those guys? They're like, oh, they're with the NBA. They're like NBA guys. I was like, oh, my bad. I picked the wrong one. I had a one in three chance of getting it wrong, and I got it wrong. And I was like, who are those guys?

They're like, oh, they're with the NBA. They're like NBA guys. I'm like, what do you mean? Like the New York office? They're like, yeah. I was like, that guy's intense. Very intense. But you know what?

I was proud of myself, and I think it's the age and not the area code. But I was like, all right, whatever. You know, I did get it wrong. So that was my night. I hope you guys had a great night too. Hey, before we talk some baseball, let's do this. Let me ask you, is there anything better than watching football? Of course there is.

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to check in with this guy jeff passan of espn national baseball writer fresh off the winter meetings although i guess i shouldn't say fresh because a lot went on this time. Okay, so I remember talking to you about my Boris thing where I go, the guy plants absurd numbers, he doesn't get them, and then the team thinks they've gotten a discount, and Boris is just laughing all the time. But remember, last year it was, hey, Boris slow plays this, and that's always what Boris wanted to do. Wait forever, wait forever, wait forever. And instead now, right off the winter meetings, Jeff, we got 824 million with just a few players. So I read something today that always annoys me. Almost anytime the word narrative is used, it just immediately sends me to being annoyed. Because it's not like the implication when somebody uses the word narrative as if something's incorrect. No, it was correct to

say Boris slow plays it, but now there's this change, at least in philosophy or execution. So what do we make of what he's done now with these players? And if this is really a change from him or just these contracts are so amazing, it made no sense other than just take the money now. I think we need to go back and look at what the market was for Bryce Harper last year. And it wasn't great. And the question of why it wasn't great is because of Scott Boris and because he was asking for a lot, or because maybe there were some flaws with Bryce Harper, or maybe this third question that I don't think a lot of people have considered.

question that I don't think a lot of people have considered. Was it because there was a perfect storm of teams not wanting to compete, not putting free agent dollars in, and the big market teams sitting things out? And I think it may have as much to do with that third one as it does those first two. This time through in free agency, we've got the Cincinnati Reds spending $16 million a year on Mike Moustakas. We've got the Chicago White Sox spending $73 million on Yasmany Grandal. And we've got the Philadelphia Phillies

spending $118 million on Zach Wheeler. And when you have all of those things as a backdrop to the New York Yankees, Los Angeles Angels, and Washington Nationals going out and wanting truly elite players, and you have the Dodgers in there as well, and you have the Rangers in there peripherally, and you have all these teams that have money and want to spend when you have those mid-level teams spending on mid-level guys it frees up those dollars for the rich teams to go out and lavish strasburg and cole and rendon and that is exactly what happened yeah it's the first time any agents had three players signed contracts exceeding 100

million an entire offseason and it happens here in a week so harper you're right the market was complicated because honestly harper's one of the most overrated baseball players i've ever experienced his star is bigger than no it's true like i mean he's had one special year a couple pretty good years but then to talk about him as this franchise-altering guy, and honestly, the history, this isn't a debate. History tells us that position players that get these kinds of contracts, their teams, I would say 90% of the time you go, yep, this contract sucks.

We regret this. So having looked at what's happened with top-tier pitchers, I think these numbers, now granted, some of the Cole projections were like $200 million. He goes north of $300 million. I would still rather pay Cole that contract than pay Strasburg that contract. Where do you come down on the Cole-Strasburg thing? I'm with you, actually. I'll be honest, I would not want to pay either the money that they got

because I'm just inherently afraid of pitchers breaking. But Steven Strasburg is likelier to break, I think, than Garrett Cole because Steven Strasburg has broken before. And the numbers, I think we're going to look back at the numbers on these deals and there's going to be a market correction at some point. I understand that Garrett Cole, and I was saying this all off-season, Garrett Cole is the best free agent, the best pitcher going into free agency that we've ever seen. And you could argue

Greg Maddox, and that's understandable and fine. He was coming off a Cy Young. He was a year younger than Cole is. The difference, though, is Cole's stuff is so much better than Maddox's ever was. I mean, the best stuff in baseball today. And with him, you had a bidding war among three teams that had incredible amounts of money and incredible reasons to be pursuing him. And look, it has been very rare that the New York Yankees really want a guy and don't go out and get him. And where they extended here, I was talking with the GM probably a week before the winter meetings, and he thought the numbers I was saying for Cole were crazy. And I was saying, I think Cole's going to get eight times 36. That was eight years,

$288 million. He said, you are nuts. And you know, the over under we put, he thought you were too high. Yeah. The over under was two 75 and there's going to be a nice bottle of scotch at some point coming my way because this thing not only went over $275,000, it went almost $50 million over $275,000. So when you're talking to teams, and I always, like when I look at like the baseball growth in contracts, you know, we finally kind of started getting there with Trout's extension, which is, you know,, when we're talking about

a once in a... I don't know what kind of bookends you put on his thing. Is it a once-in-a-hundred-year type of player? He's a generational player. We'll just leave it at that, and I have to argue it. We saw it with the Harper deal. We saw it with the Stanton extension, and how these numbers have finally... But football,

I don't think the average annual salary has matched the growth in the cap the difference is like the nba spike was so quick it's like wow now all of a sudden all the guys who are making 20 or making 40 like that's crazy but i feel like even though teams are maybe scared off and i want to get to like the chris bryant stuff and the mookie stuff as much as teams can be scared off like what are we doing now with some of these monstrous contracts in a way it's like how did it take this long up into the last 24 months or so considering where we were 20 years ago in the a-rod manny off season you know like it's nuts that it took that long to have more a-rod type contracts where we're talking almost two decades that would never have happened

in the other sports and that's what happened here so really you could argue it's out of control or you could argue it was long overdue and i'm really more of the latter yeah i think that's what happened here. So really, you could argue it's out of control or you could argue it was long overdue. And I'm really more of the latter. You know, considering what the last couple off seasons were, it does surprise me some that things have shifted as much as they have this year to make this look like the ones getting enriched by this because it has been such a continuous win for MLB in terms of finances. You just haven't seen those leaps forward in any of the markets. But I think it's very fair at this point to say that when we're talking about big contracts from now on, $100 million is no longer the threshold. $200 million is the number that separates the absolute top-of-the-line players from everyone else.

And you look at a guy like Jake DeGrom, Ryan, man, is he wishing he had just waited one more year. And I understand that, look, he got $137.5 million. If Jacob DeGrom had waited, he would have doubled that. If Strasburg's getting $245,000, DeGrom would have been somewhere between him and Cole. Yeah, I know. I was looking through numbers this morning and prepping for this, and I was like, as ridiculously irresponsible as the sale extension felt when it looked like he was a little spent i know it sounds stupid but

like the numbers look good now the numbers on a sale extension you're like wait a minute it was 100 was it 145 150 and i'm like yeah you know what the hell would he get right now even coming off a year now look cole hit it perfectly strburg, for somebody who's never, I mean, what, three times in the last eight years, he's even qualified for the ERA leaders because of the innings pitched. I mean, it's kind of like, you look at that number. I think one year it was like three innings shy. So you could say half the last however many seasons, like he's not even qualifying. And then you're like, well, thank God he hit it when he hit it,

because I don't know what the market would have been for him. All right, let's go a little quicker um and that's my fault because i'm always fascinated about the bigger economic picture here but the angels feel like with the randone signing like they were close on cole they thought they had the link there he even said during the season hey going to angels games we had bleacher tickets all that stuff it sounds like they went pretty far for him but that's why the Yankees won this thing at 300 plus. But they seem to be a team that doesn't really look at need as much as they need the action every offseason.

Is that fair, or is Rendon somebody that makes a ton of sense for them long-term? I think Rendon is somebody who makes a ton of sense for anybody long-term. I think they were, I'm not going to say they were on tilt, but that's an unfair characterization. I do think they felt like they needed a splash and that they needed to go

out and do something to put somebody next to Mike Trout. And Anthony Rendon's a really good guy to choose, but, uh, they better follow this thing up with more pitching because I'm sorry, they're still not as good as the Astros. They're still not as good as the A's. Okay, so does that mean that not getting Cole, they are in on Kluber, they're in on Price,

they're in on another arm because I still think that they needed to spend the money on pitching, which they try to do, than a third baseman? Yeah, I think they can do both. They're in on Kluber, they're in on Price. They're in on Baumgartner. They're in on Ryu. They're understanding what they need to do, but the dynamic there is still really weird. Billy Epler, who's the general manager, is a lame duck right now,

and it's a really odd season to have a lame duck general manager in place when the, uh, when the chance for moral hazard is a little bit higher. And I'm not saying that that's Billy Epler style, but in the back of your head, if you know that this is the year you have to win to keep your job, you're going to do everything humanly possible to put yourself in win now mode. So you can extend your chance to not just remain employed, but remain running the team. That best player in the world and, A, as you said, once in every hundred years type of player.

And, by the way, are getting Shohei Otani back at both places this year. So we're going to see him DH as well as pitch. And by the end of the year, if he is doing both of those as well as he's capable of, we may have the two best players in baseball on the same team. Okay. Kluber is going to be 34 going into next year, but it's still two more seasons of control for the Indians at what I think are still great numbers for a guy that's been a one, $17.5 million, $18 million team option.

So even if he flamed out like he did last year in 2020, you weren't even on the hook. So I look at him as a really valuable guy. I also look at guys, and I'm not saying like Verlander's always the perfect example, but people thought Verlander was absolutely washed. And it was like, now look at the strikeout numbers, look at some of these things. And I'm like, look, at 33, 34, I still look at this Kluber as somebody, as soon as you don't have them, you're like, if you think you're a playoff team, like who's our guy going to game one that the other team is worried about. And Kluber, until I see more evidence of a 2019, I'm going to believe that he can still be that guy. So why under veryable numbers, now in this pitching market, why would he be available to so many teams? The Indians make everyone available every offseason.

This is their MO. This is their style. They did it last year, too, remember? Kluber was available. Bauer was available. Carrasco was available this year. Kluber is available. Clevenger is available. Carrasco was available this year. Kluber is available. Clevenger is available.

Carrasco. Lindor. Everyone, everyone. Yeah, even, let's put it this way. Last year, there was a chance for the Texas Rangers to go out and get Shane Bieber and give up Nomar Mazzara. And there would have been more complications in there, but the Indians were really looking for a young bat, and the Rangers were looking for pitching.

That's a trade that didn't get done, and now Bieber's one of the best pitchers in baseball, and Mazzara's getting traded for Steel Walker, Texas Ranger. And it is like these are the trades that that the Indians think of every year and are really hesitant to make because they're the team that knows how to develop pitching or has developed pitching better than anyone. after the 2021 season. And they want to be a team like Diamondbacks with Paul Goldschmidt that do not have to tank once they get rid of their star. They just want to keep the winning going as much as they can. And when you're a mid-to-small market club,

that's an extraordinarily difficult needle to thread and something that they're trying to do right now. So they're not crossing out any possibilities, but they know if they were to give up Corey Kluber, that that could be something that sustains them during this rebuild on the fly. Would you agree? Cause I know that there's probably baseball elitists that will listen to

this and be like, Hey Kluber, like get out now while you can do this. But you're right. Like I even made the same argument last year when it was two and a half years. Look, he didn't pitch much last year.

But I guess my point is, whenever you get rid of one of those guys, I don't want to have to then go back and replace him in free agency because that's worse. So unless you're listening to me going, hey, I actually don't think Kluber's the same. Their scouts don't think Kluber's the same.

That's the kind of information I don't have. I just am always surprised when it's a team that can be competitive, especially in that terrible division. You know why, why you wouldn't want to at least figure out and see if you're getting your guy back. That's all.

You know, you know what though, isn't, isn't the terrible division part of it. Don't you get that much more runway when you know that there are absolutely two teams that you're going to be playing 38 games against this year. And you can reasonably think you're going to win 26 of them. You know what? That's a really good counter.

But then I go, okay, so why are we getting rid of Lindor when we're 30-plus home runs the last three years? He's 26 years old, two more years of arbitration before he's a free agent. And this is where I wonder, is this the shift? If the Red sox and cubs are talking about what they could get back from mookie and chris bryant because they're afraid of contracts then i guess i can't really blame cleveland for wanting to get rid of lindor but this is part of the problem i think where you start going like i think the nba has real issues with too much transition and now if you're an indian and you're going like wait a minute all

i was hearing about was lindor this whole time, and he shows up, he delivers basically immediately. We could say the second full season there. And now you're kicking the tires on who you can bring back so we can see those guys play in three years? That's going to be really frustrating. And it makes absolutely no sense when we're talking about two of the biggest cities in Chicago and Boston.

Cleveland, I kind of get it. Or maybe it's the reason why they should try to figure it out. But I'm sort of rambling here, so I want you to get to kind of the Chris Bryant and Mookie stuff. Well, no, no, but here's the thing. It's a personal thing for me with Cleveland. I grew up in Cleveland. Uh, I have a lot of friends who still live there and I'm on a text chain with them. And we talk about this all the time, like they're scared for Francisco Lindor being traded. And I don't blame them because when he has been as good as he has and, and really has been the centerpiece for this franchise over the last half decade, over a pretty sustained period

of success, and you're going to get rid of them because you can't afford him like that just doesn't square with where baseball should be today every team should be able to afford a franchise player if they can and and listen I am never going to be an advocate of a salary cap I don't think that the system would work as well in baseball as its advocates say but But when someone like Lindor leaves, it makes people in Cleveland say, why isn't there one? Because that's what they feel like is the only chance of keeping him around there.

And it's a shame that they feel like this, that the Rays feel like this, that more than a handful of teams in baseball feel like if they develop one of the best players, they have to sign him to a long-term extension before his third season, or they're going to lose him. Yeah. We've, we've seen a lot of people do that. And you know, then those guys in the brave sign those extensions and you're like, what the hell are you guys doing? You're like, I don't know. Like, who am I supposed to be mad at here? So, all right, let's, for the people listening,

because I think a lot of this has been conversational, I want to get more information out of you here. So what happens with Chris Bryant? And you can even expand that to some of the other people that the Cubs supposedly are making available. I think Chris Bryant gets traded. I don't know where at this point. Atlanta made a run at Anthony Rendon.

Atlanta is discussing Nolan Aranato. Atlanta made a run at Anthony Rendo. Atlanta is discussing Nolan Aranato. And I think they feel like the chances with Aranato aren't all that great. I don't know if I'm quite that. Like, as fascinating as Bryant is to me, the Aranato situation is infinitely more fascinating. because while Bryant went out and won a World Series and was supposed to be the centerpiece of this Cubs dynasty that just fizzled out before it could even start. Arnauto signed a $260 million extension less than a year ago and may be getting dealt and may want out of Colorado right now. And all of the things that are involved there, all the politics, all the behind the scenes stuff is utterly fascinating because if you're the Rockies, how can you trade this guy

when he just signed a deal? And yet if he wants out, how can you hold on to him? Like there's that conundrum that reminds me a lot of what has happened with the NBA where these guys can get the money that they're going to get wherever they want it, but if a team knows a guy does not want to be around, how do you keep him around? A little Arenado factoid for you. I was in Denver for a Blue Jays game and was out with some of the Toronto guys after the game. And we were just talking about Arenado. And I went, well, you know who I've always thought was ironically the best third baseman defensively that I've ever seen was when Machado had to play third base.

And they all looked at me as if they wanted me to leave immediately because they were like, nobody's Arenado. They're like, stop talking. I was just like, okay. And then I looked at one of the other guys I was closest with and he just kind of like put his head down and was like shaking his head. Like, yes, yes, he's that special. Ryan, your take is not a bad take.

It was that night. It was shame. It was shame. It was shame. And I was like, does anybody want to talk about the salary cap in the NBA instead? So, uh, it was just, but honestly I loved it. I loved it that those guys were like, no.

They're like, no one is that dude in Colorado. So I was like, alright, cool, got it. You know what though? That like, it goes back and speaks to this when, when you raise a superstar, like the Rockies did everything the way it was supposed to go. They, you know, they drafted him, they developed him. He turned into a star there. They gave him a scratch and now they haven't built around him.

And you know, that's, that's part of it. Like Nolan Arnotta wants to win, right? We all, we all want to win. Everyone wants to win. But when you see this team that's put together around him and there's a finite amount of money that they can spend and $106 million of it during one off season went to Wade Davis, Jake McGee, and Brian Shaw. So you've got potentially three relief pitchers and $106 million circling down the toilet. That's a frustrating thing. It's a really frustrating thing.

And it makes you ask, and I think understandably, can, can someone really build a sustained winner in Colorado? Like I would be very curious to see Theo Epstein or Andrew Friedman or somebody of that ilk go try to run a team in Colorado because it would become like this experiment lane playhouse. house you know anybody who's been with the rays i would love to see run the colorado rockies just to see what they would turn it into and what kind of crazy style of baseball we would see mookie bets uh i felt like there was one and i this wasn't based on any information i was just trying to think like is there any way the socks are doing this because it's almost like a public negotiation of, hey, we just have a blank check for this guy. So we're going to go the other direction and act as if we're not sure. Because the weird thing about the Red Sox, under this ownership, and it's been tremendously successful,

so to give it any other grade than an A is ridiculous. But they're very reactionary. But when they have a bad season, they had the Carl Crawford, John Lackey signings where I remember like that off season, I think I was still living here then. And it was like, Hey, let's do a poll on what's wrong with the team. Should we sign more guys? And then it was like 85% of Red Sox fans said, yes, sign, sign more awesome players. And they, they were both, there's nothing, there's nothing to, to make you shift your organizational philosophy quite like a poll on Boston.com. That's exactly how you should be running your team.

Exactly. And there's little things about them at times where I go, oh, come on, what are you guys doing? And in the beginning, I felt like they really kind of made the whole experience far cheesier. But whatever, man. I mean, you win four titles in a place that hadn't had them. I mean, the idea that like Dabrowski can be out and everybody in the Red Sox after a year after winning a World Series and beating ridiculously good teams in the postseason where the whole city's like, yeah, you know, it's probably time to move on from that guy. It's unfathomable growing up around it and loving this team like I used to love them. But the price contract was irresponsible. He didn't want to sign here and they were trying to do something to make a splash and that's kind of Nebraska's way. And the number I think it came down to, I think the Red Sox are from 51 million more than the next highest bid. And that's why he ended up coming here. And I would say he has hated it basically the entire time he's been here and he's going to get the jd drew treatment retroactively because jd

drew who was also a bad signing you know has has the home runs against the indians playoffs right and then it's like ellis forgiven in you know 2018 um price price stepped up you know but now i mean we can play this game where you say hey hey, you know what, his three years, that's not a terrible number anymore. He is not worth it. That's why they would try to move him. But what is the market now for price? Because usually the way it works is that teams do find themselves

talking themselves into a number that doesn't look as bad in 2019, salary-wise. Yeah, teams are talking themselves into this because right now the free agent market is Madison Bumgarner, Hyunjin Ryu, and Dallas Keuchel. And once you get beyond those three, it falls off a cliff. And I'm not saying that David Price is Bumgarner right now. He's not. I'm not saying he's Ryu right now. He's not. But I think you could make an argument that he's similar to Keitel, you know, guys who are getting up there a little bit and who can throw,

you know, 180 to 200 innings and they may not be great, but they're going to be innings. And I, I know that there's some, some injury questions with price. There's some medical questions with Keuchel as well. That's why his market wasn't nearly as good last year. And probably this year, it should have been compared to the numbers that he's had. And so when you have a finite amount of volume out there,

when it comes to pitching, teams are going to be looking to see a guy who can give them those innings. And if the Red Sox are willing to pay it down and they will be willing to pay it down, maybe you get, you know, down to the $60 million range or so. And the team says, well, we need starting pitchers. When I give David price in this market, 60 million over three years, sure. Three years. Why not?

And if that is what can save Mookie Betts in Boston, then High and Bloom has done the Lord's work because keeping him around for one more year and selling him that this is the place that you need to be for the rest of your career. And we need to make you the franchise player is something that the Red Sox have not done enough yet to make that be a reality. And let me just say, if Mookie Betts, Ryan, has a year, even like last year, but let's say especially like 2018, he's going to get $400 million. I don't think that's a far-fetched thing at this point.

So do you think the Red Sox still find a way to keep him here? Or do you think this is Bloom and the approach? Because it's just not very... This is the opposite of what they normally do. And I'd heard they'd offer him $300-plus million before the season started, maybe early in the season. And he said no, and that's when the Sox were like, all right, maybe we really do have to explore this. But as much as I hate the history on this positional player's long-term contracts,

if there's one to make an excuse for besides Trout, it's Mookie. Yeah. I mean, you're speaking the truth there. And look, you got to respect the guy for holding out as long as he has with the success that he's had and not grabbing the bag. It could have been very easy for him to do that. But I think Mookie Betts likes the idea of free agency, of exploring all of the options, all of the possibilities and finding what's best for him. And you know what, in the end, maybe Boston is what's best for him. And he comes to terms with that after looking around, but there is an entirely different world out there for free agents like him. And you know what we saw at this off season,

the biggest contract ever for a pitcher going into this off season was $217 million for David Price. Garrett Cole beat that by almost 50%. And, and so to, to think that free agency isn't this great Valhalla for position players, uh, no, we're back there. And, uh, Mookie Betts has a chance to do something extraordinarily big. And, and I think that that's going to be all the talk next off season. Okay. So bum Gardner, and I think that that's going to be all the talk next offseason. Okay, so Bumgarner? I think he gets nine figures.

You know, I have a chance to have egg on my face here. I know the Twins really need to make a move. Wow. They need another pitcher. Barrios is good. Michael Penev is good. Jake Odorizzi is good. But they need a guy who can step up and pitch game one of the postseason.

And I think that's still bum-garner. It's just it's not their style to throw dollars around like that in free agency. It's not the organizational style. It's not the style of the people who brought up Derek Falvey. You know, he comes from the Cleveland tree and the Indians don't spend on free agency historically. And, you know, the Blue Jays don't do it either. Mark Shapiro's there. So I could see Minnesota.

I could see the Angels saying, screw it. We need a pitcher. And I can see the Braves. and I can see the Braves. You know, Atlanta's been very sneaky this offseason and has really remade its roster into something that's honestly going to be scary for the National League East for a while now. When you're building around Acuna and Albies on contracts like that, I mean, it reminds me a lot of the Warriors having Steph Curry and Draymond

Green on the contracts that they did. You can do a ton around that. And that's what they're starting to do right now. And Alex Anthopoulos has done a masterful job. I mean, Acuna's eight years, a hundred million. And Albee's is what, 75? With two options. So it's really 10 years. I mean, that's like Magic Johnson for a million dollars a year lifetime contract with the Lakers.

Albies, I'm looking at it again here. It's seven for 35, but you're right. There has to be something else on the back end of that. Cause I'm just, I'm doing this. Yeah.

There are a couple more options there too. Like if, if, if you, let's put it this way. If the Atlanta Braves do not win at least one championship during the course of Acuna and Albies contracts, something went catastrophically wrong.

It's, it's just one of those things where you're like, how did that happen? How did that happen? And then, you know, that becomes like a really weird argument, though. Can I tell you how it happened? Well, I think I know some of it, but go ahead. This is sort of the dark secret of baseball. And it's screwed up and it's wrong. And I wish that it changed.

But when players come from Latin America, they are treated very early as second-class citizens by the sport. You see this with the fact that baseball thinks it is okay for them to drop out of educational systems before they reach their teenage years and go play baseball full-time in an effort for teams to sign them or to agree to contracts with them well before their 16th birthday, which is when they're supposed to sign. We're talking about kids 13 and 14 years old signing. So already they are being taken advantage of in that respect. They're being taken advantage of because that system right there, that signs up at that age but can't give them the money then, gives them incentive to go out and take money against their future earnings from loan sharks in the area. And that these loan sharks are charging them mysterious rates and starting them in this horrible cycle of money mismanagement, which is unfair to them and unreasonable and

wrong. But baseball has again brought them into this. And so they've been in this place where money has been because of their upbringing, this, this almost fictitious dream that they came into. And oh my God, we have this and we need more. And I totally understand why there's that desire to have more early on in your career, but you're capped because of the way that the system is. So to get more money, you have two choices. You need to go out again, take loans from people who are giving them, uh, two younger players, sell a percentage of your future career earnings, or go out and take this long-term contract. And, you know, I was talking with a couple of, uh, a couple of, uh, agents for Latino players earlier this week. And I said, why is it that Marcelo Zuna is the first guy from either the Dominican

Republic or Venezuela since Carlos Lee to go all the way through his arbitration years without signing an extension and reach free agency? And the answer was because, uh, you know, our culture says, uh, this is, this can be so fleeting. This can go away in an instant and you want to get the guarantee while you can. And when you have Ryan, the confluence of all of these things leading to, uh, teams taking advantage of Latin players, it's just, it's unfortunate. It's shameful. It's wrong. I wish it would change, but it's just the reality.

And look, Ronald Acuna and Ozzy Alves both have more money guaranteed than you or I could dream of or will ever have. But they're also leaving so much of it on the table. It's just, you know, it's sad to see. Great answer. Great answer. Great answer. All right. Last thing, because I've already kept you longer than I promised, but give me, because

I feel like we've sort of, we haven't really given a definitive thought on like what the Dodgers do now. They wanted Cole, you know, do they go after an auto? Do they, you know, do they, I've heard him, look, the Dodgers are that team that's connected to everybody, kind of like every Yankees beat writer in the nineties that used to write about free agency. Uh, the Dodgers give me, give me a sense of, of what their end game could be here. Cause they always feel like another one of those teams that needs the juice needs something. Yeah.

Yeah. I, you know what the Dodgers need to get creative here And, and there might not be a general manager in baseball who's more capable of putting together something extremely creative than Andrew Friedman. He, that, that is what he does. I mean, look at like,

look at the deal last year where he shipped off Yasiel Puig, Alex Wood, and got back Homer Bailey's contract, right? You think that's just a money dump by the Dodgers or exchanging money so that they can get it? No, he also got Josiah Gray, who's a right-hander who may pitch in Los Angeles this year

and is arguably their best pitching prospect at this point. And Jeter Downs, who's a shortstop prospect who a lot of teams think is going to be a 10-year major leaguer at shortstop. That's the sort of thing, like, even when he's just being creative to move money around, he does a good job of looking long-term as well. But I think that the Dodgers, based on just how in they were on Cole, which was 8 for 300, so higher AAV than the Yankees ended up getting him. 300, so higher AAV than the Yankees ended up getting him. And based on the fact that they wanted Rendon, but Rendon really did not want to go there as much as he did Los Angeles South, you know, they need to do something and they need a big splash at some point.

I don't know if that's Lindor. Those talks have been way overblown. They're not nearly as far along as others have reported. And beyond that, this is how the Dodgers need to think. Lindor is going to cost $20 million this year or so and probably $30 million next year. not like you're looking at an insignificant amount of salary over these last two years before his free agency. It's not quite what he would be as a free agent, but it's sort of in the neighborhood. On the other hand, Corey Seeger, because he's had some disappointing years in recent years, is not going to cost nearly as much. He may cost $20 million total in arbitration over the next two years. So suddenly you've got a $30 million value gap right there between those two that just on cash alone. And then on top of that, the Indians are going to want you to trade a ton of talent because Lindor is as good as he is. So I don't know if

the value proposition for getting Lindor is as good for the Dodgers as it might be for other teams out there. That's the way that that team and the best teams in baseball think. And that's how you have to look at these trades. You can't just say, well, Francisco Lindor is dope. Let's go get him. No, it's not that. It's a matter of who works best for your team and inside of the structure that you have created that led to a half decade worth of division championships and two World Series in three years. But you also have to get a little crazy at some point.

And if there is a time for the Dodgers to get crazy, it might just be now. That was great. I especially love dopey free agent fan voice what was that guy see we've got we've got like every time you do it in boston you've got sully in boston like who only thing the only thing that i like crazy laker fan outdoes every other fan base in that city and honestly is able to rival anyone and honestly the part of that's part of a compliment. But whenever I think of the L.A. typical fan, if I were going to do dopey L.A. fan, all I can think of is absurd Laker fan that before this season was telling you Kyle Kuzma was going to be in the Hall of Fame.

That's not specific to them. Absurd Laker fan already exists. He's the guy in the gift ripping off the sunglasses. Yeah. Or the Laker chain guy that says Lakers and came up to me at the ESPYs party

and was like, hey, and he was really nice and he's like, let's take a picture. I was like, no problem. And we took a picture and then he tweeted out the picture and said, man,

Ryan Russillo even came up to me and said, we have to get a picture together. And I was like dude that's that's the complete opposite of what happened um but i kind of i kind of respected the way he spun it because it was so damn funny because somebody that i was with saw the tweet and went like oh my god that's that's the complete opposite of what happened and i went yeah it is But I still got to meet him. And maybe I actually should look at it and say, hey, that was great. You can follow him at Jeff Passan, P-A-S-S-A-N.

And he is an MLB insider from ESPN. Hey, man, that went longer than I thought, but I hope you enjoyed it. And a lot of good info there. We'll talk again, all right? I always enjoy it, Ryan. Thanks for having me on, pal. Getting into debt is easy. Getting out of debt info there. We'll talk again. All right. I always enjoy it, Ryan. Thanks for having me on, pal. Getting into debt is easy. Getting out of debt is hard. Thankfully, now there's the revolutionary lending platform that offers smarter interest rates to help you pay off high interest

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Like, that doesn't make any sense, right? And this is the FBS, FCS. It's always funny, too, when that first happened, I remember guys being like, I'm not going to call it that. I'm like, yeah, eventually you do call it. Same thing as Comerica Park, which was out in San Francisco and people call the commercial stick or other things. And it was funny. There's a lot of pushback on naming rights in the beginning. It's much like my NBA patch theory. Like, no, we can't do this. We're like, what is that again? That's what was happening with naming rights. And actually, it's kind of brilliant. Whoever first thought, hey, you know what we should do? Just charge companies to name stuff because we're not really giving away any inventory. We're not giving them anything other than sort of this. It's like the Peugeot theory in Sapiens, where it's like, what is it really? We are convinced it exists, but what tangibly is it? And I'm getting a little too philosophical here. So I'm going to stop doing that.

Okay. So if you had the top eight and let's go by what everybody likes to do, it's called the all inclusive approach where it's the five conference champions and the top group of five, and then two at larges. I hate the idea of the group of five getting an automatic bid to a chance at a national championship. You can say that I am ruling them out and we should just separate the power of five from the group of five getting an automatic bid to a chance at a national championship. You can say that I am ruling them out and we should just separate the power five from the group of five.

Actually, yes, I think we should. I don't think that a team that plays a group of five schedule should be allowed a chance of being one of the eight teams for a national championship. Look, I went to Vermont, man. This isn't some Big Ten guy or Big 12 or SEC guy saying, hey, whatever. I just don't think it's the same. You cannot convince me otherwise. I don't want to hear your arguments. I will not listen to them.

I'll stick my fingers in my ears. It's just that when I watch teams play against big boy opponents, and it's a week four win or a week four close win, and it's like this team. I remember a Kentucky LSU game when Kentucky was really good. It was a while ago. And they had a pretty good team coming in that year. I think it might have been an Andre Woodson season, although he fell off and he was going to be this top prospect. He's a quarterback. It was over 10 years ago, maybe 10 years ago. They played a game against LSU and it was so ridiculously physical.

Kentucky wasn't the same team the rest of the season. You do not have that happen with Memphis. You just don't. Memphis is a good football team. I love their running back. And I know they beat Ole Miss at the beginning of the year, but if you're telling me this year, it's LSU. Okay. Fine. Ohio State. Fine. Clemson, Oklahoma. Oregon is the Pac-12 champion. And for all the Pac-12, woe is me stuff Pac-12 woe-is-me stuff, don't lose to Arizona State, Oregon. Losing to Auburn was a coin toss game. It was a great Bo Nix story.

It was a bad throw, but they won the game, and that's what happens. And then you lost to Arizona State. If you had beaten Arizona State, Oregon would have been in. The playoff committee clearly liked Utah and Oregon better than the Big 12 this year. And then that wasn't the case because both had two losses. I didn't understand why Utah was just being given a victory going into that Oregon game, but Oregon would be

in right now, but they would have been in instead of Oklahoma. So this isn't an anti-Pac-12 thing. It's you got to take care of your business. Now, is there a little carryover when you start failing and not making the playoff that bleeds into the next year? Yes, that is human nature. That happens with very select teams at the top where there's a benefit of the doubt thing that you can't avoid. We've been over all this stuff, but there will be LSU, Ohio State, Clemson, Oklahoma, Oregon, Memphis as your six locks and your two at-larges, I guess, would be Georgia, who's fifth in the playoff rankings, Baylor, who is seventh. Florida ironically is sixth in the AP. And I do wonder if the playoff committee, if they were tasked with having to come up with the top eight, if they would put more into how they would rank these teams, they probably would,

where it felt like Wisconsin wasn't really punished. You know, Georgia wasn't really punished. Baylor wasn't really punished for losing the conference championship games, but none of this necessarily really mattered. But if you expand this out, say that, okay,

at the top eight, you know what? Wisconsin was much better against Ohio state than anybody has been all season long. And I do wonder if there's a part of me, especially with that Michigan game before that fell apart for them. Is there a version of a team going up against Ohio State where they actually can move the football a little bit better than maybe we think? Because Ohio State's defensive numbers are absolutely off the charts and have been all season long. Just something to think about. If all of a sudden Clemson's up 21-0, you go, oh, wait, maybe you can move the ball against Ohio State. Just something to think about if all of a sudden Clemson's up 21-0, you go, oh wait, maybe you can move the ball against Ohio State. Just something to think

about. I'm not predicting that it's going to happen, but just something that I've noticed a little. And credit to Ohio State. I don't want to hear about adjustments. The better team came out in the second half. They beat Wisconsin a second time. But if Ohio State were number one in the final rankings, which very well could have happened, the committee has told us over and over again that it was very close to them in LSU. I thought LSU was deserving to be one. If Ohio State was one, I don't know that I would have freaked out about it. But what if Ohio State were one and Wisconsin ended up being eighth?

Are you telling me Wisconsin deserves a third shot at Ohio State? And that's what you would have happen in some of these scenarios, not year to year, but playing it out over five years. You could have a case where the eighth seed is now a rematch of a conference championship game we just saw. What if it's LSU Georgia again, just a few weeks later? Is that good? Is that a good product? Is that what you want? I don't really know that that's what I want. And then you start thinking, well, the committee would start moving that around a little bit to avoid it. And it's like, okay, so then what are you doing?

Are you seeding these teams based on who you think is one through eight, eight being worse than seven? Or are you just switching it up a little bit because you don't want to have that rematch? Now, a lot of that stuff gets thrown out. Locations, oh, they're going to put Florida State here because it's there. Nope, they end up at the Rose Bowl. Oh, if Bama, and by the way, Bama would have been back in this whole thing if Tua weren't hurt. I actually think Bama may have been in over Oklahoma if they had beaten Auburn with a

healthy Tua. Now you can say, hey, they scored 40 plus points in the Iron Bowl. What the hell would Tua have done to make a difference? Well, you know what? Maybe they don't end up having to attempt a field goal to tie the game that misses. Maybe Tua takes them in for a game-winning touchdown. I like my chances with Tua better than Mack, even though Mack was pretty good as a backup putting up some points. So Bama would be back in this thing, which seems to be nothing that anybody wants. And look, I'm sorry. When I look at Memphis and their strength of schedule, actually this year is a little bit better than you think. So we could do the one sample thing where it's like, hey, Rosillo, actually Memphis' schedule strength-wise isn't that bad, and this is a bad year for that point to be made.

I stalled a little bit as I was scrolling through it. Yeah, Memphis a 12-1, 62nd in strength of schedule. And look, there's some Power 5 teams behind them there too, but let's keep going because I could have done this all day all day and i'm not going to but i just want to make my point here 2018 we'd have bama clemson notre dame so there's a sixth lock there because they would be one of the at-larges i mean they were in the actual 14 playoff oklahoma ohio state washington then ucf would be in there okay so ucf would be in as the sixth lock and then notre dame would be one of the at-larges and then you'd be looking at Georgia and Michigan so Michigan who lost at Ohio State lost to Ohio State Michigan and then Georgia UCF would be a lock having the 74th best strength of schedule and I realize UCF

after another good season previously, like there's a little bit more benefit for the doubt there, but despite UCF and, you know, all the people that were pro UCF were basically anarchists of the system or the AD and congrats to all there. But look, I was at that LSU UCF Fiesta bowl game and I know it was 40,

32 LSU was much better than them. They just were. It was a weird, fluky kind of closer game, but it didn't feel like they were at their level. And that's fine. Like, look, other Power Five teams are going to look even worse in a bowl matchup here. But if you're 74th in strength of schedule,

and the only ranked team that they played that year was No. 24 Cincinnati. They did have their non-conference canceled game. It was the North Carolina game that was number 24 Cincinnati. They did have their non-conference canceled game. It was the North Carolina game that was canceled in 2018. So they actually ended up 12-0 with that canceled game. But the only ranked team they played was number 24 Cincinnati. And you're telling me, it sounds like the majority of you, are telling me you want that team to have a lock chance, a bid, whatever you want to call it, to be in on the playoff for a chance of the national title.

I do not. And another thing that's weird, if we want to start turning the conference championship games into automatic qualifiers, where you could have had, not that Northwestern was going to beat Ohio State last year, but would you want Northwestern in 2018 to be a 9-4 college football playoff invitee? With not only losses to Notre Dame and Michigan, no shame in that, but losses to Duke and Akron. They ended up 8-5. They would have been 9-4 if they had beaten Ohio State in the Big Ten,

but they have a chance for a national championship? I don't want that. I assume most of you do. I think most of you, because it makes you feel like you have a better chance, go, hey, I like that the Giants win the Super Bowl at 9-7. I don't. Not when it's single elimination. You know, series have a way of weeding out who's who.

And if you win a series, okay, it's kind of deserving. But I think in one-game scenarios where if you play these 12 games, you play these 13 games, then all of a sudden a team that's lost to Duke and Akron, and again, beating Ohio State and winning the Big Ten is an accomplishment. But then what the hell do those other four losses mean? And I'm not doing the old guy. The regular season won't mean anything,

but it would certainly mean less. And I think you'd have matchups that didn't really make any sense. Western Michigan in 2016 would have been your group of five automatic qualifier as the highest ranked group of five team. They had zero wins against ranked teams.

Zero. Now they played Wisconsin close in their bowl game, credit to them. But leading up to that, you're telling me that a team from the group of five that hadn't beat a ranked team all season long has an invite as one of the eight teams for a chance at a national championship. I don't like that idea. If you want to give me the six with the two buys, okay, fine. But that would mean Clemson right now wouldn't have a buy and Ohio state and LSU would, you know, and I don't know what to do with Clemson right now. I mean,

there's part of me that wakes up some days going like, are you going to win this whole thing again? Maybe it's an easy thing to get to giving them the benefit of the doubt, despite the schedule and despite the ACC being this. So whenever you start talking about eight teams in the playoff, just make sure you look and go, okay, but that would mean like there's a chance that USC could have gotten into the Pac-12 title game. And despite Oregon rolling over them, bad matchup, I think for USC, but like we could

have, we would have potentially a seven and five, then eight and five conference champ get into that 8. Is that what you really want? Because I don't. All right, please subscribe to the Ryan Russillo Podcast and the Ringer Network. A bunch of different things. The NBA fan base thing, it's Friday.

Let's all be in a good mood. I'm going to wait until I'm in a worse mood. I'm in a great mood right now. I'll wait until I'm in a worse mood, and we'll do those top five most annoying fan bases in the NBA in 2019-20. So with that, Milwaukee Bucks fans, have a great weekend. you