The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Eagles and Cowboys Disasters and a Stroud Vs. Luck Rookie Debate. Plus, Jazz Head Coach Will Hardy.

Episode Date: January 16, 2024

Russillo opens by recapping super wild-card weekend and his biggest winners and losers (0:37). Then he is joined by the Utah Jazz’s head coach, Will Hardy, to talk about the Jazz’s current surge, managing rotations, and his journey to becoming a head coach (26:04). Finally, the guys close it out with some listener-submitted Life Advice questions (64:14). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out theringer.com/RG to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Host: Ryen Russillo Guest: Will Hardy Producers: Steve Ceruti, Kyle Crichton, and Stefan Anderson Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

on today's show it's for solo so we'll have a breakdown of all the nfl wild card action will hardy is the head coach of the utah jazz in his second year he has an incredible story his origin story san anton, the stop in Boston. And then what does a coach do during a game? And Utah's nice turnaround and life advice. This episode is brought to you by Uber Eats. Winter is here, so be prepared and get almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. What do I mean by almost anything?

Well, you can't get a ski slope, but dish soap, definitely doable. Sunshine, that's no. A bottle of wine, yeah. And a snow day, again, no. But blueberry muffins with the delicious crumb topping, total yes. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol and select markets.

Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Going to get a dose of Rosolo here. No NFL guests, so I want to run through all the wild card weekend stuff that we can. A disappointment off between two teams. Why Kansas City potentially could remind us of the Colts. And what does Rui Gobert have to do with the Rams Lions? You're like, wait, what?

Yeah, we did it. All right, let's start, though, at least with Green Bay. Because this has been two different teams on offense this season. And much like Dallas has been two different teams home in a way, except for this one, they get smoked at home. We'll get to the Dallas part of this in a second. But when I look at Green Bay's offense, once Jordan Lovett had made this massive leap,

you know, in the beginning of the year, you're like, I wonder if this is really going to be a guy, which we do. We spend a lot of time on it. I enjoy talking about it. Now it looks like you have a guy for seven or eight years in Green Bay, for a city that I'm very happy for. If you look at that midpoint of the season and you go with expected points added, a number we all love, the EPA numbers, right? Number one on offense, midway point of the season on San Francisco 49ers. Number two in the NFL, your Green Bay Packers. Let's look at some other stuff that's happened with this roster. The Green Bay offensive line, number two in pass block win rate on the entire season. Aaron Jones, who at times you were like, what's going on with him? Where is he? Well, he's shown up big time. Last four games, 476 yards, three touchdowns in this blowout at Dallas. Whether it's Reed or Watson, who I both like, they didn't even need him because Dobbs went off for 151 in this game. Musgrave has been terrific as a rookie.

And he had, what, three catches, got himself a touchdown as well. So it feels like at least the roster part of this, on the offensive side of the ball, we'll worry about the defensive stats later because they're not great, but it leads me to this longer version of a data point or whatever you want to frame it on, like the Aaron Rodgers argument. Because this win yesterday with this group on offense and who they have been in the second half of this regular season, this is a win against the Aaron Rodgers argument that was always weak when he wanted out of Green Bay. I had an open mind about it. He had started it, what, two years out where he didn't

like anything. And you may just start to think, is this guy perhaps lean towards, hey, I could be happy or I could be miserable here. You know what? I'm going to go with miserable. But I never understood. I felt like his argument was weak about why he wanted out. They had won 39 games over three straight years. Yes, they had the playoff disappointments. Then they went to eight, nine, but there was never a strong enough public argument about how bad the front office actually was, in his opinion, for him to be that upset about it. And look, he gets his way. That's all history now.

But I felt like this game and what this team has turned into, again, I know on offense because none of you Packers fans have been super happy with a defensive coordinator this season, this is a win. This proves, hey, you know what? The Packers kind of knew what they were doing. And a bet to have some insurance against Rodgers probably wasn't the wrong bet. And the funny thing is, is that Love being drafted motivated Rodgers where he had this new spike later in his career. So you could argue, even though I don't love using a pick, when you already have somebody that's already there, you're like, well, wait wait if we're drafting love and getting a better version of Rodgers for it then it's a win win anyway as they continue to develop love so that part of it it just felt good because the Packers are dealing with a lot of drama of like hey I still want to love the guy behind center

because he's given me so much joy Rodgers is one of the greatest to ever do it, but this really sucks because he's making the entire experience miserable. And this is crazy because the turning of a page like this at that position on that side of the football, post a guy like Rodgers, it's not supposed to happen like this. And yes, I know it obviously happened with Favre to Rodgers, but again, that's like getting lucky twice in a department where other franchises are going, we're still in this malaise 10 years post, the guy that could get it done. So that's the Green Bay part of it. Dallas, three straight years at 12-5 after the previous four years averaging just over eight wins per season.

In 21, they were the three seed. They were first in points on offense throughout the regular season, seventh in points allowed for their defense. In 22, they were a five seed. They were fourth in points, fifth allowed on defense. This year, they were first in points, again, fifth on defense. The only playoff win during the stretch is at Tampa last year. So what's wrong if it's also kind of working? We could make it as simple as Dak. I mean, he's just going to get lit up the whole time. His cap number is massive. You could see a scenario where they rework his contract and it looks like he gets a raise. And then some guys will be like, man, this guy got a raise after he can't do anything in the playoffs. If you look at the stats,

and these don't always tell the truth, his QB rating, not QBR, which is more flawed than QBR, goes from 192 from regular season to the playoffs. The interception spike is up, but it's not insane. It's 1.9 in the regular season to 2.5 in the playoffs.

He did have 400 yards in that game against Green Bay, which is going to turn into, I would say, a year from now, a James Harden box score where you see a guy on countdown going, well, I don't know. Dude's still got 28 a game in the playoffs. You're like, okay, because that solves everything. So if it's as simple as Dak, okay, but guess what?

You're probably not going to, like so many other franchises that are scared to death, be that aggressive and decide to make an overall change when you look at the fact that they've been the number one scoring offense, what, two of the last three years. So the constant everybody always points to is Jerry Jones. And when everything is that simple and that agreed upon, the first thing I think of is, is that really what's happening here? I know that he's the constant, right? I know that he's the constant, right? Michael Strahan, during the Fox breakdown of this game, had something really interesting to say, but I didn't know if it was playing the results a little bit.

He said, when you're in Dallas, you're on a stage. You can't just play football. There's just another layer of stuff that you're dealing with when you're with Dallas. I think some players would look at that and go, okay, that's a negative. I don't want that much attention. But I think there's also a lot of players out there that would love the idea

of how special it is when you're playing for the Dallas Cowboys. Strahan also pointed out, hey, when you enter the field there, you walk through the crowd. I've been there a couple times, and when they first opened the stadium, I remember that being something they were showing off. Like, this is where the locker room exit go through the middle of this suite on the floor area area and then the guys go out on the field i actually thought it was cool but then it's like now they lose in the playoffs

all the time so that means that that's part of it or are you just pointing to a thing and pretending that it's actually that big of a negative so i don't know if mccarthy's going to lose his job and the belichick stuff has made zero sense to me whatsoever. Because if you know Belichick, the idea that he would want to work for Jerry Jones if he has other options doesn't seem like Bill's ideal situation. And if you look at Jerry Jones, post-par sells, the coaches that he's had in there are people that are never going to be a bigger star than he's going to be. Local people in Dallas that knew the story better than we did nationally would consistently say Jason Garrett still has the head coaching gig because Jerry Jones is kind of in control of the whole thing. And they're in control of the roster

on top of everything else. Unless they're desperate and Jones wants to do a total 180, that doesn't really align with how he runs his organization. So as bad as Dallas being down 27-0 was, and the bad DAC throws, there was going to be a lot of bad DAC throws. He threw it 60 times and the game just got away from him really quickly. I thought Philadelphia's three plus hours was worse. I understand what the score is, but when you're going from 10-1 to a wild card loss at Tampa, who's not a 500 team this season if they're playing in a tougher division, happy for Baker. Not sure if he's the long-term answer, but clearly Tampa a better post-Brady plan than Belichick.

So even if we're talking about 27-0 at home versus 16-9 on the road, I have different metrics. In my eyes, I cannot tell you how many times I watched Philadelphia on certain plays and was just disgusted. Like, what happened to you guys? this team felt like it missed every tackle that they needed. Every time somebody, whether it was wide or receiver, out to the side and you go, oh, they got him. Here's like a stop. They're going to force a punt. They can get back into this game.

It's like, nope, he broke a tackle. And now all of a sudden it's another first down and they're moving the chains. They put up the missed tackle graphic B-roll at 757 left in the second quarter. That's really early. Every time they needed to stop, it didn't happen. On the other side of it, Hertz was blitzed. Let me pick it up here. On the other side of it, Hertz was blitzed 18 of his first 25 dropbacks.

Any adjustments? Nope. 10 unblocked pressures by Tampa's defense. That means there were 10 pressures where they had a free rusher. That's the highest number of any defense in a game this season in the NFL. Hertz had under two and a half seconds 13 times in that game last night, tying a career high. I realize there's no A.J. Brown. They lose Julio Jones on that hit where it looked like he was dazed as he was still trying to recover upright with the football, almost fumbled. But there never felt like there was any kind of adjustment other than to have Hurts just throw it out to the sides. Think of the game last night. Hurts dropped back, maybe one look down the field, throw it out to the

sides, and terrific tackle. Normally, you cannot live that way, deciding to play so specifically, without any variance whatsoever. What do we always hear about quarterbacks? Hey, you got to mix it up, got to keep them guessing. Basically, Philadelphia knew the whole time. It looks like they don't respect our run game. At one stretch, I think it was 17 of 18 plays were dropped back. Philadelphia got real pass happy early. I guess they didn't feel like they could run it against Tampa Bay, but there was no balance. There was no plan. There was no adjustment. I know there's so much more about football that's going on that I don't understand, but when you're watching it happen and you're going, so this is just what it's going to

be for three hours? Hurts is going to have no chance, who I still think we're going to find out is more hurt than we realized during the offseason, but it was gross. The tackling, the offense, there was a punt where the Eagles had punted it and the guys didn't even let it bounce for a potential Philadelphia role. I'm like, wait, why did you down it there? The safety from Hurts, you're like, this guy isn't really going to take a safety in a playoff game, is he? I know some are dumping on Sirianni on taking the three points off when they got the penalty and decided going for it on fourth and five. But at that point, it was 25 to nine. I think you're just piling on at that point. And to have the tush push stop was kind of the most

fitting thing for Philadelphia struggling and then being out. A team that was in the Super Bowl last year, a team that we were like, I guess Hurts is the best quarterback in the NFC. It is easily the most talented roster when you look at the O-line and the D-line. And yeah, maybe the secondary and linebackers are lacking a little bit, but look at the playmakers of all this stuff. This was a colossal fall-off from where they were at 10-1 of the regular season and where they were at in the Super Bowl last year. And honestly, that looked like a team that had no interest in being out there for three hours last night. Detroit and LA. This is a fun one because I was not rooting against anyone.

I was kind of rooting for all to happen at the same time. That doesn't happen a lot. It was going to feel great if Stafford got this one. The guy battles. Different path. I think he's going to go down as one of the all-time greats of his era. He was not allowed to do that because he lost so much in Detroit. But I think just the skill, his ability to actually just play the position and the turnaround the Rams had this season. But I know the rules are that he has to be considered a loser because they lost all the time in Detroit. The golf angle is incredible. This is somebody that's admitted when he was traded after at least getting to a Super Bowl that it hurt him and that he had to reset.

I remember having Dilfer on during this. I was like, what do you think? And he said specifically that McVay wanted a partner at the quarterback position, not necessarily somebody he had to hold his hands. And that's something that Dilfer has brought up. So I was not a huge golf guy when he was in Los Angeles. The trade made all the sense in the world to me. It pays off for the Rams. And I wasn't sure that golf was even going to be a starter after they kind of gave him a chance in Detroit because they had made the trade and then they'd make some other decision at quarterback. I was wrong about the Goff part in Detroit. He ends the longest active playoff drought

in the NFL going back to 1991. And I'd have to ask Lions fans or really any fans, if I had told you, hey, it's going to be three plus decades before you get a playoff win again, would you sign up for that? I guess in Detroit, you'd be like, what am I supposed to do? Go outside during those months? But that is, you want to talk about an unbelievable product? Hey, this is going to bum you out for three decades. Are you interested? I am interested.

Where do I sign up? So there was a bit of recency on the trade there that I had to push back on that I saw a little bit, and that was that Detroit, with this win, proves that they won the Goff-Stafford trade. I don't know that I'm ready to do that. Now, if we do a full accounting of the trade, they got Goff, they get the playoff win and the drought, Jameson Williams, Jameer Gibbs, Sam Laporta, nice haul. Open to it, but I'm not there yet. I'm not there yet when the Rams actually won a Super Bowl. Simmons and I argue about the Pelicans-Lakers-Anthony Davis trade, I think, once every three months. And yeah, on paper and looking back, you're like, that's a lot of stuff

that they had to move for him. But it was also for a chance to add a player that was that important because without Anthony Davis, that Lakers team doesn't win a championship, so they won a championship. So if Stafford wins one and Anthony Davis wins one, can you really knock them that much? That's where Rudy Gobert comes in. That means now that if the Minnesota Timberwolves win an NBA title, the Rudy Gobert trade was worth it and the Timberwolves did win the trade. I'm not willing to go that far. If you're telling me that sounds inconsistent, I'm not willing to go that far. If you're

telling me that sounds inconsistent, I'm telling you it's my math and you're just going to have to deal with it. Coming up next, the longest playoff drought belongs to this team. So the Lions are off the hook now and that means your Miami Dolphins have the longest playoff drought active NFL teams look no one expected the Dolphins going to Kansas City and actually win that game I thought it maybe could get a little weird with a weather deal here or there not the case other than the deep shot to Tyree kill they showed nothing on offense which isn't so much about the weather as a constant theme of who Miami seems to be against superior opponents. But some life from Kansas City on offense to team up with the best Mahomes-era defense the Chiefs have ever had.

And it got me thinking about with their offensive, I don't know if we call it a surge in that weather. And I know there's a lot of helmet experts out there right now. Maybe the helmet cracked because it was negative 30. It could be that. Maybe the helmet company doesn't have to worry about what the helmet's going to do because that's not usually how cold it is when they're playing outside. So back to this whole Colts-Kansas City deal. The reason I bring that up is this Kansas City offense just felt lost for just too much of the season. It felt like it got a little bit worse. And I'm wondering if we're seeing some signs of life here because everybody's going to want to pick Mahomes again, which I don't really blame you. I kind of still want to pick Mahomes. I just never want to pick against that guy. We'll see what happens with this weekend's game in Buffalo. But if you go back to the Colts season in 2006, the Colts rush offense was the worst in the NFL. They were allowing five plus, 5.1, 5.2 yards per carry against the run.

And so even though it was Manning and it was the Colts and they were going to make the playoffs, you were kind of like, yeah, but look at history. no team has ever won a Super Bowl that's been that bad against the run. And guess what? They get Bob Sanders back. And I think it was just, I think it was a little bit more than just Bob Sanders. And all of a sudden they're just shutting everybody down. I'll never forget Herm Edwards on the sideline of that playoff game against the Colts in 2007 when he was the head coach of the Chiefs. They come out.

They're going to run it. And they're like two series. They can't move the football on the ground, and Herm's just like looking around. I could just hear him being like, I thought these fellows couldn't stop the run. And you're just like, yeah, I guess they can now. And that was it.

Chiefs, it just felt like they had, we spent all week thinking we were going to run it right at these guys, and now they're going to tackle everybody. It's not the same thing because it wasn't that dramatic. But when you think of the Mahomes standard on offense, and that's the only thing that was holding a lot of us back from thinking like, man, I still think they're just going to beat everybody because of him. To see it look a little bit better in those elements, I got to admit, I'm flirting with it. I'm flirting with

just picking them against everybody again, including Baltimore, even though that doesn't make a ton of sense. So now you've got the two a question. I don't really know what we're going to argue about anymore with him. I mean, unless there's this next level that's going to be unlocked going to his third season with McDaniel, it feels like maybe the best coaching job we've seen with a quarterback in recent memory. It's very clear when I watch him, the first read stuff is awesome. When it's all in sync, it is incredible. This is the best sports car ever. But when one thing is off, but like when one thing is off, okay, you're like, hey, the car won't start. Why? Oh,

because the dome light is busted. You're like, that doesn't make any sense. That's what this offense feels like with Tua. Because as soon as to the second read, you're like, oh, we ran through some of the numbers when everything's kind of easy and cruising in the first three quarters, especially against lesser opponents. He's terrific. And then when it's late and when he's down, he's just not. I don't know why anybody's going to argue this anymore. The argument you're having internally, if you're Miami, is you're looking at his fifth year option at 23.4 million and saying, maybe we could just do that, then franchise him after. And if he's great and he's even more expensive a year from now, then that's actually still kind of a win for us. The downside to that is there's just a lot of people that run football teams going, you can't have the face of your franchise

be playing in the fifth year option and not wanting to give him the extension because then you're kind of telling everybody we don't really believe in him. It's a lot like the Dak thing, even though Dak is better than Tua, where you want to move on from Dak? Okay. For who? What's the plan? And you can't get that aggressive when you kind of have somebody that can do the job unless you think he's incapable. And it feels like Tua against, you know, look, there might be a fluky win there in the playoff, but we'll see. We'll see what the contract is.

We'll see what the numbers are. I don't know that he would take less. And I got to be honest with you too, like I'm not trying to sound like a hundred year old guy here. are, I don't know that he would take less. And I got to be honest with you too, like I'm not trying to sound like a hundred year old guy here, but him asking for my home's Jersey after the game, that's so fucking embarrassing. And I liked to it, but like get an email out, you know, that's what assistants are for. I mean, if that's really what happened and that's what it looked like, that's what happened. So I don't know if that's going to be addressed or followed up here, but I went and watched it like a third

time. And it sounds like my homes is like, yeah, I'm going to keep this one. I'll get you another one after like, dude, have a different priority right after getting bounced from the playoffs. I might want to CJ Stroud Jersey. I just, if I were Joe Flacco, I wouldn't ask for it right after he put a 45 points on us. So CJ is now the youngest quarterback to win a playoff game. put up 45 points on us. So CJ is now the youngest quarterback to win a playoff game. He put up 45 points here on the number one yardage defense in the NFL. It was fitting that it was against Flacco because I remember my Flacco isn't that great arguments from 15 years ago. Now, why did I say that? Because normally you go, hey, a rookie won a playoff game. All right, well, what did everybody else do? The other team turned it over three times. How good is their defense? That was not the case here at all. This was about

Stroud putting on a show for three hours. So when I look back at Flacco, 2007 rookie season, 08 playoffs, in three playoff games, because they made it through three, because they made it through three. Flacco completed nine, 11, and 13 passes. And then there was like, he almost got more credit for being a winner than Stafford did, even though Stafford was 10 times the quarterback, right? Because when the quarterback wins,

despite not really doing all that much, you're like, you know, he does just enough though. He fits their character. The next year when they smoked New England at New England, 33-14, he was 4-10 for 34 yards. Now that game got out of hand so quickly, you'd say, well, you'd have to throw a ton of passes. My point was the Ravens kept winning playoff games

and it didn't really feel like he did all that much. Then I guess in year five, something happened where he's really good for a few weeks. That's part of the history with young quarterbacks, specifically to Flacco's rookie year, where you're like, man, he's getting all this credit. And I'm on the air going, I don't really think he's doing all that much, to be honest with you. I think it's kind of the defense and every other thing that we're doing. Again, the game was a little bit different

there, where this was all Stroup. He had a series of throws where it felt like he could do everything. Off-balance throw where his base is terrible across his body to the left. Check. He had a bootleg to his right in traffic where he had a free rusher coming at him and he had to get the throw underneath him on the run. And he hit his receiver right on the hands. Check. on the run, and he hit his receiver right on the hands.

Check. The right-to-left B-button floater, where he knew he had to get the ball up, but he couldn't throw a dart because the receiver had to clear himself, but he liked his angle and that he thought he would get it there. Throws that perfectly. The deep shot that he missed, the flick of the wrist, and I remember the Elite 11 guys when Stroud was in it. I was like, who do you like?

I'm like, dude, have you seen Stroud just throw? Have you seen him physically throw the ball? It's like a rocket launcher out of his hands. The miss was one of the most impressive throws I saw all weekend from anybody. So then it led to, is this the best rookie performance that we've ever seen? Maybe in the playoffs, but I couldn't help but think about Andrew Luck a little bit. that we've ever seen. Maybe in the playoffs, but I couldn't help but think about Andrew Luck a little bit. Let's go through it. Andrew Luck, 2012, CJ, 2023. Luck, 16 games, 4,300 plus yards, 23 touchdowns, 18 picks. Yikes. 54% completion rate. He did throw it 627 times, and that's in 2012. We were like, dude, what's up with this guy? He was almost going to miss a start, like Pedro style, like, yeah, he just threw too many pitches last week.

His quarterback rating was 76, but his QBR was 65, which factors in a lot more of the game circumstances. He was sacked 41 times. His interception ratio was 2.9%. CJ, 15 games, Interception ratio was 2.9%. CJ, 15 games. Less yards, but another game there he probably would have caught luck. 4,100. 23 touchdowns, same number. Five interceptions, 13 less. Completion percentage, 10 points higher.

Completion is just higher across the board now. Yards per attempt is higher despite the less overall yards because he threw it 499 to luck 627. Quarterback rating, he smokes him in that one 101. QBR though, lower than Lux at 57 and he was sacked 38 times. His interception percentage was 1% which led the NFL this year as a rookie. That seems impossible. Then I started thinking about the team since I'm like, I remember thinking, I can't believe Luck got this Colts team into the playoffs. They were 31st in opponents' yards per play. They couldn't run the football.

Houston was a middling defense, much better than the Colts were, though, but they were even worse at rushing the football. You look at the personnel, Reggie Wayne towards the end, but T.Y. Hilton probably better than Nico Collins and Tank Dell at this point, and then they got into the playoffs, and C.J. Stroud did what he did, and then Luck had to throw it, I think, 60 times in his first playoff game with a couple picks. I'll admit, as I was watching it all play out, I was like, is Stroud actually better than Luck?

Is Stroud putting this team more on his back than Luck did? Because I think Luck put it on his back so much more than any rookie has had to and then got into the playoffs. That's how special I thought he was because I felt like all the other elements of the game, O-line, special teams, defense, rushing, it was like, man, they don't have anything else. But the interception numbers for a rookie to do what Stroud just did, that doesn't happen.

That's not supposed to happen. And it looks like the AFC has another special one. Last game, Bills won. Go Bills. He's the second-year head coach of the Utah Jazz. It's Will Hardy. And look, man, six in a row, four on this homestand. No wonder we heard back from the team being like,

Will is available now. So I appreciate it. Yeah, thanks for having me. I was looking through it because, you know, last year you start 10-3. And then at the 42-game mark, you're 20-22. And, you know, I think me, like a lot of people were like, oh, that was kind of cute, you know, in the beginning. Caught some people off guard. And then I think of this year and you start 7-16.

I was like, I don't know. That's probably a loaded West. That might be who they are. And now you're 22 and 20. Uh, I think that's kind of lost a bit and it's like, Oh wait, they're good. They're, they're in it now in the playoff stuff. What's been different about the start of this year to where you've been the last month? Yeah, I think obviously last year we had zero expectations. We had just made two massive trades. The narrative around the team was we're going into a rebuild. And we had some guys that really had a chip on their shoulder. And we also had some good players on the roster. You know, Mike Conley being a veteran point guard,

I don't think that you can undersell the value of that when you're a first-time head coach and you've got kind of all these moving pieces happening around us. He was a real steadying force for us early in the year, and we also squeezed out some close games early in the year. It wasn't like we were rolling people up. We won a couple games in overtime. And I think that maybe had the record a little bit misguided early in the year.

We were playing well. I'm not sure we were 10-3 good. But as the season went on, things changed. Um, but as the season went on, things changed. And, uh, you know, this year we had a little bit of expectation because people had seen Lowry marketing and the season that he had and Jordan Clarkson had a good year the year before, and we signed him to an extension and we did have a little bit of cohesion in certain spots. Um, and so I think the narrative was, hey, they showed last year

they can be competitive. Let's see if they can take a step this year. But we also drafted three rookies, and Keontae George is in the mix. You know, we don't have a veteran point guard at the moment. And John Collins coming in, it was going to be like, how are we going to fold him in? How does he fit next to Lowry? How does he fit with Walker Kessler?

What are those things going to do to the lineups every night? And it's taken us a little bit of time to figure out what groups work best. I think we all get caught up on who starts and that narrative tends to be one that's talked about a lot like he's a starter he's a starter oh he's out of the lineup oh he's in the lineup um and for us it's been about trying to maximize the full 48 minutes like what groups work best together how do we get through the game without having massive drop-offs and then as we get to the end of the game we'll try to do whatever makes the most sense um every night's different matchups are different some nights we need more space

sometimes we need more size um some nights this guy's playing great some guys some nights this guy is not um and so lately we've just found a good rhythm of the balance of the groups, I think. And credit to the guys, because early in the year, you know, again, we're seven and 16. It's not feeling great. It would have been very easy from like a human nature standpoint to just kind of shut down a little bit, buy into what people were saying about our team. to just kind of shut down a little bit, buy into what people were saying about our team. But they've really dug in. The environment here every day has been fantastic. Like these guys are having a great time, but they're also working hard. They're pulling for each other. I think we've all kind of figured out how to accentuate each other's strengths a little bit. And now it's

about trying to cling to that as much as possible. I always feel like there's this unsolvable conflict, despite how on the same page your coaching staff and the front office can be. And the conflict is that it's like, look, we just drafted all these guys. We've got to get them in. We've got to develop them. And you're like, yeah, but I still have guys on my team that have been around a long time that are thinking about their next contract. Because when I look at your rotations, you're playing a significant number of guys. And it's not just, oh, the ninth guy plays like four minutes. So you can see that you're kind of mixing and matching it depending on that matchup. So how do you balance, you know, reward and development knowing that you're, you're kind

of serving two different things here at the same time? Yeah. Um, there's a lot of days where it feels like you're fighting a war on two fronts and that's not always easy. Um, I think that the, the most important thing for me is that, you know, the locker room is an ecosystem and it's a living, breathing thing. And we have to make sure that the team knows that we're trying to put our best foot forward every day. There are lots of ways to develop. Game minutes are very important, but that's also why you have the G League, and you try to use that with really young players to get them a ton of game reps. Players that earn real minutes in the NBA games, well, they'll play.

But we didn't want to turn this into a feeling of like, hey, we're here for these couple of people's development and the rest of you are just kind of props around them. I just feel like that's a really dangerous thing to get into in terms of what it feels like every day here. We want the team to know and feel like we're trying to win every night and we're trying to prepare to win. We're trying to put them in put him in spots to be successful. I'm also looking to give him opportunities to play through some mistakes.

And I don't believe that, you know, the game's perfect and that you have to play perfect. He needs to be able to learn how to deal with some mini failures in a game and keep pushing. But there's also some nights where it's like, Hey man, you got to come sit down because we're trying to win and you don't have it right now. And those decisions are not always easy. Like there's not a perfect science to it. That's why I have a staff. Um, and I, I don't think I always get it right. There's nights where I'm like, man, maybe I left him in too long. There's nights where I'm like, maybe I was a little bit short on the leash tonight. But, um, you know, that's where I feel as a coach, like, it's nice to have 82 of these things because I don't feel the pressure

of like, I only have 15 chances to do this the right way. Um, because Keontae is a young player and he's a young person. And so I recognize the ebbs and flows that will come with that. So we're just trying to do our best to have him. I think he's better now than he was the first day of the season, and that's what's important to me. It doesn't mean that today he'll be better than he was yesterday. You can have little ups and downs along the way. We just want to make sure the big picture is, is trending up. I want to go back

because I love your story and you know, everybody that's successful, you're kind of like, what was that turning point? How old were you when you knew you weren't going to play in the NBA? Oh man. Uh, when I knew I wasn't going to play in the NBA. Yeah, where maybe you told people publicly you knew you weren't, but deep down you were like, you know, 6'6". I mean, 16, 17, like, yeah, something like that, 17. Yeah, it's 6'6". Yeah, it's like, okay, but I can shoot and that's fine, but it wasn't like North Carolina was beating down my door.

It wasn't I didn't love basketball and wasn't competitive. I think there's just a moment where the game kind of tells you that you're not even really in the conversation. So, yeah, probably 17. Okay, yeah, look, that's great. I mean, I'm actually impressed. So you end up that's, that's great. I mean, I'm actually impressed that. So you end up at Williams, a school, smaller school that I know in Massachusetts. And I've heard you tell the story, but I want to share it with the audience.

Kind of like the path of, of what led to you getting into the basketball world to, to have an internship with the Spurs. But there's a backstory there that actually takes a really long time before you even realized it was an option. So if you could tell us that, it'd be great. Yeah. So I was going to school at Williams and I had met an older couple who lived in town. They were a part of our, we called it the hoop group, which is basically the division three version of boosters, I guess. Like they're people that lived in town and loved the team and followed us and supported us and took care of us.

Um, I had met, uh, coach Tong and his wife Jinx at a hoop group event, you know, a dinner we had after a practice and I got to talking with them. we had after a practice and I got to talking with them and, uh, you know, through the conversation, they were talking about how they were moving a bunch of stuff at their house and trying to make some transitions at their house. And, you know, I just kind of spouted off and was like, Oh, well, if you ever need any help, let me know. And, you know, kept it moving, kept the conversation going like, all right right you guys have a good night and uh the next day i got a phone call from jinx like hey this is jinx tongue from last night i got your number from coach uh you know you said you would be willing to help us move himself at the house like that would actually be amazing and i'm kind of like oh no dude like why

did you open your mouth like it was one of those things that I said in passing. It's not like you didn't mean it, but you also weren't expecting the call the next day. Um, and it's one of those moments where you're just like, look, you got to stand and deliver. Like you told these people you'd help them. They called, they're asking for your help, go over there. So I went over, helped them move some stuff. And that was kind of the beginning of our relationship. They took care of me for a couple of years at school. Like they were, I don't know, surrogate grandparents, parents, whatever. Like they would check in on me.

They became a part of my pregame routine. The women's team would be playing before us, conference games. I would go get my ankles taped. I'd go sit in the stands with Coach Tong and his wife on the way back to the locker room, and they would just ask kind of general, how you doing? How's school? Have you met any nice girls? Like that kind of stuff.

They really did feel like family in that way. And this relationship went on for a couple of years. Cut to two weeks before graduation. I'm 22. I'm clueless. I am graduating with an English degree from a liberal arts school. I've applied to jobs in eight different fields, some basketball, some I think will, you know, my English degree will go to good use. Some are just like, hey, I would love to live in Washington, D.C. I grew up in Virginia and Richmond, had some friends moving there.

So it was kind of spread out, trying to figure out what I was going to do with the rest of my life. And I got a call one day from Jinx that said, hey, Coach Tong would like to meet with you. He's down watching tennis practice, which he did frequently in the spring. Weather turns in Massachusetts. He would go sit down by the tennis courts and watch tennis practice. We had plenty of meetings there. So I went down, sat with him. This is, again, two weeks from graduating. And he asks, have you thought about what you're going to do after college? And it's like, well, yeah, I thought a lot about it. Actually, I'm kind of panicking.

I've applied to a bunch of jobs and I'm not really sure if any of them are going to work out. I've had a couple interviews. It seems to be going OK. He goes, oh, I have a job I think you should apply for. So what's that? He's like, I think you should work for the San Antonio Spurs. I'm like, well, that's a really great idea. Um, but what makes you think that I even have a remote chance at getting that position? He's like, Oh, I don't know if I've ever told you, but, um, when I was

the athletic director at Pomona, Greg Popovich was the head coach. We've been best friends for 20 years, which led to like a mini argument of sorts, because I'm like, look, man, like I've been coming to your house for a year, a couple of years now I'm on the basketball team. You know, that I sit in my apartment and watch NBA games frequently during the week. It never crossed your mind to bring up that Greg Popovich is one of your best friends. Like that connection didn't seem like a conversation we could have at a dinner at any point. He's like, Oh no, I guess, you know, I never thought of it. So, uh, I sent my resume to San Antonio. Um, I was actually writing my last paper of college in the library, like grinding it out, like a couple pages left. And you're like, I'm going to

push send college is over i'm gonna go party with my friends it's gonna be great and uh i got a phone call from a random number that had a san antonio uh area code and so i picked up and it was this like deeper voice that was like is this will and i was like yes he goes this is greg popovich and i was like oh my god like hold on one sec i gotta run out of the library. So I run out. I ended up talking to pop on the phone for like three minutes, scared to death, have no idea what's going on. And he's like, Oh, you know, we're still in the middle of our season. You know, this is may at this point season still going on. And, uh, you know, we're trying to figure out what we're going

to do, but we'll be in touch. Okay. So I hang up. I didn't hear from them for probably a month, six weeks maybe. And I just kind of like thought, hey, maybe they looked at my resume and I'm not the fit. I'm not the person, whatever. And so I'm just kind of moving on with some other job stuff, taking that down the track. And then about the middle of July, I got a phone call back from the Spurs, ended up doing a couple of phone interviews with them. Um, then they flew me down to San Antonio to do a last face-to-face interview. Um, and kind of the first part of August of 2010, they offered me a position to be an intern actually for RC Buford working on

the front office side. And I drove to drove to Texas for a one year internship, uh, working on the front office and left 11 years later and assistant coach on pop's bench, married with a daughter and another one on the way. So, uh,

I kind of grew up in San Antonio in a lot of ways, obviously a ton of stories in between those 11 years, but, um, it's crazy like how that connection and that random hoop group dinner and me offering to move a few boxes, uh, somehow has resulted in me sitting here talking to you. I know when you went to Boston with EMA, you know, there's, there's some stories how EMA had said like, look, not every place is San Antonio. Cause like San Antonio is your only world that you understand you're there at such a young age.

I mean, it's, it's honestly like the standard for what you would want for your organization when San Antonio was running it for as long as they were. What to you now that you've had, I don't know that you can answer this question properly without the Boston, Utah experience, but what is different about San Antonio? What makes it so special? I mean, I think for a lot of us that were there when I was there, you there, I think working, number one, for a coach who has established himself in a place and you don't really feel like you're looking over your shoulder. There was an unbelievable trust in Pop and his relationship with RC and with ownership there. Everything just felt pretty stable every day. I also think that like, I mean, when you talk about Hall of Fame players

being in one place for a long time, you know, Tim, Tony, and Manu are really the reasons that everything there happened. Pop was a huge part of it, but look at the NBA right now. Could you imagine three guys that are that good staying in the same place for 15 years together and at times everybody taking a little bit less on their contract and making those financial sacrifices and maybe making some statistical sacrifices at times just to keep the thing together. I think the stability of those three guys and you couple that with Pop, who is the perfect match for the three of them,

it really set the tone for the whole place every day. We didn't worry about our star players being unhappy and leaving. We didn't worry about them asking for Pop to get fired. part of the NBA now that come with the territory, but, um, the way that Tim, Tony and Manu approached their relationship and the three of them staying together, I really think is something that, um, we may never see again. I know you didn't have Ainge in, in Boston, but, uh, along with Justin Zanuck, uh, guys you're working with in Salt Lake, can you give me the Pop Scouting Report versus the Ainge Scouting Report? What do you mean? Just whatever you want it to be, man. Like you're an advanced scout, but you're not –

I mean, we're not sizing up their games here. Yeah, no. So, Pop, they're both one of a kind. That's a fact. Like they are both very much one-off one. Um, pop has a side of him that the whole world sees. And then he has a side of him that people that are on the inside get to see. And pop is a very tough and sometimes short with the media and all those things. Um,

but he has, uh, an unbelievable way of caring for all of his people, um, an unbelievable way of caring for all of his people every single day in the organization. DA is DA all the time and he has no filter. And I think that's probably where they differ. Pop keeps some things when he's speaking to people in public. I think DA has an unreal ability of, number one, seeing the good in everybody. And number two, he has a really unique skill that I wish I could steal from him. He can tell you the blunt truth, even if it's 100 hundred percent disagreeing with you and not make you feel bad or feel like you're being, uh, like he's being combative. It's a, it's a gift. I don't know how he does it, but like, I've had conversations with DA where, you know, two sentences into him talking, I'm like, Oh my gosh, like he's telling me that he thinks the exact opposite of what I just said, but in a way that doesn't make me defensive.

But they're both unique. I would say that the similarity in the two of them is probably two of the most competitive people I've ever been around. Day-to-day, in everything they do, the way that they keep that fire burning hot in that regard is, uh, is special. I want to talk about the job of being a head coach in the NBA now. And, you know, I'll, I'll try to keep up as much as I can, but I, I can't help but think obviously, cause your age, you're the second youngest coach, um, that plays into it. There's probably moments where you felt like, I can't believe this is real and I'm in San Antonio. I can't believe I'm the lead assistant here in Boston. But then it's like, no, this is actually my team.

It's funny how life works where you can feel like, I have no idea where I'm going to be in a couple of years. And then it just skips all these turns. It's like, I can't believe now I'm doing this. That first game was Denver last year, right? At home. Did you walk out and then like, I just don't know that anybody in that spot couldn't be having just little moments of like, I can't believe this is actually happening. And I know that that may not be anything you even want to admit. But did you have moments where you're like, hey, should I argue with a ref here? It's been like three minutes because I'm supposed to argue with refs. You know, do I call a timeout here? Do I like, what's my first time out? Hey, I don't like the way we're covering this. Oh, Hey, Hey, my guy wants a challenge in the first quarter. Do I do that to show him a player's guide or I not do it? Cause I'm going to show that I'm not a player's guy because I'm young and people are already wondering, I'm going to walk all over. How did you handle?

Cause I can't like any, a lot of people would want to pretend like, no, that didn't really happen. I was prepared. I'd done preseason, all this different stuff. I think that'd be all bullshit. Cause I just think any normal person would have a few moments in that first game as an NBA head coach where you're, you're thinking about some of these things, even though you know, you're not supposed to be. Yeah. I mean, I, uh, I'm not, uh, I'm not ashamed or afraid to be very honest. Like I still have some of those moments. Um, but last year was a whirlwind, like the beginning of the year in particular. Um, you know, when you talk about like feeling stress, when you talk about like feeling nerves in a way that you've never felt them before um i mean i'll go back even before the first game like our first

practice at training camp practice ended and we all brought it in and we put our hands up and i'm like my brain is like as an assistant coach you're kind of listening but it was dead silent for like five seconds and then I was like oh shit I'm supposed to talk like I forgot that like I was the person that was supposed to like wrap up practice with the little message and then like bring it in and like I still have moments of like oh man everyone's looking at me like I'm supposed to say something right now I'm supposed to do something. The first game last year, though, was like. We had this new team, it all made sense at practice, you don't really know what it's going to look like. You're playing the Nuggets. They're a great team. You know, we've got the home fans there, the owners there.

My mom's in town. It's like, just can tonight, please just not be a train night. Like, can we somehow get to the end? And people are like, oh, he seemed like he kind of knew what he was doing. Like, can we just get like that report card at the end of the game? But yeah, all those little things of, do I argue with the ref? Do I challenge? Do I this? Like I left that game. I don't think I've ever been more tired after a game because your brain is just going a thousand miles an hour and you can't simulate it. And yeah, preseason happened, but it's nothing like that. Um,

and you, it, it like made me think about also like times I was an assistant, like I'm trying to talk to the head coach and they're kind of like blank, like, cause they're, they're thinking something in their own head. Um, I remember walking out of the gym, one relieved that we won because I was like, Hey, I won't be the first coach ever to go. Oh, and whatever. Um, and secondly, like part of me was like, Oh my God, I have to do that 81 more times this year. Like I'm exhausted. Um, so yeah, it's, uh, it's a,

it's a whirlwind because you get pulled in a lot of different directions. I think you, I think about things now that I never thought about as an assistant, the things that I'm worried about are way different than the things I was worried about when I was an assistant. Um, like I'm still learning how to do this job. I don't feel like I have it all figured out. I've way more comfortable now than I was the first game against Denver last year. But I think last year, one of the things that helped me early on was some of the veteran guys we had on the team, like Mike Conley, what he did for me last year one of the things that helped me early on was some of the veteran guys we had on the team like mike conley what he did for me last year you know mike and i are the same age which is

weird on its face but like the relationship that we had early in the year being able to bounce things off of him some of the other guys on the team um was good to kind of know like hey you guys don't think i'm crazy doing this, do you? Like, does this make sense to you? You know, Rudy Gay, who was on our roster, I had coached in San Antonio. And so I had a pre-existing relationship with Rudy. And like, he was really helpful for me last year. So like, I think it's, you have to lean on different people at different times. But I still go into the games with nerves. I still have a lot of moments of doubt. Like, am I doing the right thing?

Am I saying the right thing? Was that message? Okay. But, um, you gotta have people around you. They'll tell you the truth. I think last year I had a lot of that. I think this year I still have a lot of that. Um, because yeah, being an NBA head coach is hard. Like the people that want to say like, oh, I've got it figured out and I know what I'm doing and I prepared for this and all that. Like, that's fine. Everybody, you know, everybody prepares. But when the lights come on and it all starts happening, your brain gets going pretty quick. What do you look for at the start of a game? The start of the game, I think mostly we'll go to the defensive side. You're trying to survive because you have adjustments that you have ready to go you assume or i assume that we're not able to play one way the whole game but i'd like to get through the first four or

five minutes without having to pivot to options two three and four because now you have a long way to go but i'm more like trying to look at like, hey, are the matchups correct? Did we think what we thought this morning or yesterday? Does it make sense now? Like seeing it in real time, like are these matchups going to work? Then you go to the offensive side and it's like I'm I'm trying to see because we play a varied style. We do a couple of different things like Like I'm almost trying to like test things out at times and see how they're going to guard it. It kind of informs me to what may be happening for the rest of the game. So, you know, there are moments in games where

coaches will go to something, it works, and then they keep going to it. Early in the game, I would say I'm kind of doing the, uh, appetizer sampler. Like I'm trying a couple of different things to see how it's going to look. Um, and then talk to the staff and talk about what we've seen. Um, cause 48 minutes is a long time. And like, I don't want to try to be discovering something in the middle of the second quarter. So knowing I had you scheduled for this and I was watching your games a little bit more intently, and I went back and watched the fourth quarter against LA and I was, again, I'm watching on the broadcast. So, you know, it's not like I'm going to see you a ton, especially on offense, because you're on the other side. And I was watching what you were doing and I was noticing,

and it might've been with Keontae, where the only thing it really looked like you were doing and I was noticing, and it might've been with Keontae, where the only thing it literally looked like you were doing, and I'm sure you're doing more than this, but you kept saying like other side, other side, you wanted to initiate the offense on the right side. And is that pretty much like, Hey, you know what you're supposed to do. And then beyond that, I'm not going to sit here and start yelling out a specific action every single possession. The priority seemed to be where you initiated. And then certainly once you got the subs kind of with your closing group, I mean, you want to talk about spacing. Had I not rewatched it, I don't know that I would have realized the emphasis on how far out your five out stuff was.

I mean, it was incredible. know that I would have realized the emphasis on how far out your five out stuff was. I mean, it was incredible. And I think it also speaks to kind of your closing group where I go, man, I really like that they have four slash five guys with the ball in their hands that they can get more than two dribbles and still be kind of comfortable. And that's kind of how you lived offensively. So again, I'm using a very specific group that fourth quarter, that game, but I noticed it fell a little more hands off and it was more about how you were aligned.

Yeah. We try to communicate in dead moments, timeouts, dead ball. So we had talked at that previous timeout about the couple of things we were going to try to go to. Because again, like when the game starts going and it's going up and down and it's loud and you only have 24 seconds in a possession, like I can't give a long winded thing to the team. And so you try to tell them like, Hey, these next two minutes, this is kind of what we're looking for. And then my job with Keontae was trying to point out some spacing and yeah, in that game in particular, initiating it on that side of the floor was good for us. Um, Keontae likes his left

hand. Um, and so it was like about trying to put him in a comfort zone and then also kind of where the action was going to go after that like we felt like the spacing was good but it's a it's a longer conversation at a dead ball and then that lets the conversation be shorter in that moment because they know what i'm referencing if that makes sense um the the spacing piece is massive for us. We need that, especially with guys like Colin Jordan who can break guys down one-on-one off the bounce. And we have to play some different spacings depending on who's in the game. Like in that game, John was in, which is great for us.

John has a versatile skill set. He can screen and roll. He can also space. It puts big guys in tough situations. When we have Walker in the game, we play a little bit of a different spacing. And so, yeah, like at that point in the game, we had stripped it down. It was pretty simple how we were trying to attack. And Keontae's a young guard.

Like, he's really bright. But in some of those moments, you're just trying to remind him his responsibility, which is like, if we can just start this in the right spot, then you guys can play, and I'm going to kind of get out of the way. Because there's a lot of – we try to coach in concepts, not necessarily in like on every play you go here, you go here, you go here. But sometimes the concepts can get screwed up if we don't start in the right spot. Because I don't like when – I think that there's just so much that –

one of my favorite things, and I've always told this story story is working for minor league baseball and being around the coaching staff every single day of a baseball season. Like I remember just in that short experience going, whatever I thought I knew about how this worked, like I, I had no idea. I just didn't. And, you know, when people get on coaches and it's like, oh, they don't run anything. It's like, well,'t run anything it's like well they're all running something i would say there's maybe been a few games the last couple weeks where i was like yeah they're not doing that kind of favors but you know that's just me at home on it but it felt very and again i'm just picking this one game here but it felt very hands-off it felt

very popovich you know it felt like and and i i think too, we're in a stage now with the NBA where I used to think like the prototypical point guard, the greatest skill that he could have would be like, hey, we need something different on this possession. We need a different look. Or this guy hasn't touched the ball and he averages 18 a game. So let me make sure that he's still engaged. And I think we've lost a lot of that. So then you can have some coaching styles where it feels like it's so dominant. And I know that you specifically said during this turnaround, quote, we stopped focusing running plays on every single possession. And I think you have some of the playmakers for it. But I also think that there's a freedom that every basketball player,

I don't care where you've been at, loves that kind of freedom knowing that, hey, you know, ultimately it's on us to beat our guy or make the right read. It's not about Will over there designing what we do off the blitz or some screen on the baseline every single time, because that'd be an awful way to play basketball. Yeah, absolutely. I think, and that's where it comes back to me to like, we're trying to coach in concepts. And if spacing is really important to us and making good decisions at the rim is really important to us. Okay. Well then I can hold the team really accountable to those two things. And I can allow them to have a little bit of individual expression in how they do it. Um, they're all unique. Like all these guys got to

the NBA playing their way. And so their way doesn't totally suck. Like they got to the NBA, so they're all really good. And I need to try to figure out how to maximize that. And yeah, there's parts that you have to try to refine or shave down to make it all fit together a little bit better. But I also don't want them to lose their instinct because then they become frozen. Then they become overthinking because they're trying to like please me or do something that's unnatural to them. please me or do something that's unnatural to them. I think there's, when you make what you care about clear and you hold them all really accountable to those couple of things, but then you let them be themselves and you don't nitpick every dribble, every shot, every pass, you know, you give them a little bit of grace in those moments.

I think they're really receptive to you holding them really accountable to the, Hey man, I told you these two things are what I care about. You know, like you want to dribble between your legs a few times and do a half spin on that move. Like, okay, I'm not gonna, I'm not going to be the coach that yells, like you have to jump stop on every play. Like I'm, I'm not doing to be the coach that yells, like, you have to jump stop on every play. Like, I'm not doing that. Maybe that's not your thing. Some guys play the slow step with the Euro. Some guys do play off two feet. But they all have their own unique style. I'm not trying to make them all one thing.

And that's why, like, you know, from, like, a big picture thematic standpoint, like, I say this to the team. Like, this is not my program. This is ours. I am a part of it and I have a job to do. And sometimes that means I have to make tough decisions. That's part, that's my piece in this, but we all need to have ownership of it. And so I have to have a little bit of humility and like letting them be themselves at times and not trying to micromanage everything they do because their way, albeit not perfect on every possession is pretty damn good. They're in the NBA. And so like, it's hard to tell a guy that got this far doing it his way that like, Oh no, your way is terrible. It's no, your way is good. You could do this a little better and you could do that a little less

and that's where you try to like help them in the margins but i think trying to strip them of their individuality for our group is counterproductive and like trying to be overly controlling doesn't help the team and so that means that there's times like i'm watching and things that are happening. It's like, I'm not necessarily in full control. Now I have timeouts and I can do those things. But like when the game's going up and down, like, I don't care what any coach tells you, like you don't have control when the game's going back and forth, up and down, like on misses and the game's free flowing, like you're yelling things. Some of them they hear, some of them they don't.

It's loud in there. And so you're hoping that the concepts that you've coached them on in the quiet moments will show up when the game gets a little bit hectic. Some great answers in there, Will. This was a lot of fun, and I really appreciate the time, you know, busy stretch of the season, but it's been nice to have you on during this, this big turnaround and in the mix there in a crowded West. So thanks again and good luck the rest of the year. Appreciate you, bro. Thank you.

They say money can't buy happiness. Look at the fucking smile on my face. by happiness. Look at the fucking smile on my face. Ear to ear, baby. You want details? Bye. I drive a Ferrari 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you can possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Life advice, email address, lifeadvicerr at gmail.com. Good day to Saruti and Kyle as we change up the schedule a bit. So we will be live normally Wednesday and Friday with the games getting moved around. We just didn't want to recap four of the six, even though I did five of the six. Anything to check in on? Anything to update?

I know the crowd loves it. I don't think so. Okay. Cover up in the Poughkeepsie t-shirt. What's up? Yeah, man. Crown Jewelry. A lot of passion out of the gates here. So let's just get to the emails.

Legally representing an eye catcher. Hello, 26 years old, 6'1", 175, 205 bench, 225 squat. He can bend. Luis Scola. All right. Third year law student. Emphasis on student. I can't legally practice law or advise someone, but I've had friends the past couple of years reach out to me to take a pass at their lease, new contract, and or the police report when their little brother gets his fake ID confiscated. I've been happy to do so and give the caveat

that I can't give actual legal advice as a student. Generally, I know what they need and they need to see a big boy lawyer though. All right, well, let's, you know. When, yeah. Yeah. Well, I think this makes sense though, that he goes, hey, you know what?

With this, you're probably going to have to hire a lawyer. Whatever. It's an escalation thing. Like, how bad is this? People like this kind of stuff. I actually do need a lawyer. You need a lawyer right now? No, no, I'm saying it's like an escalation thing. Like, all right, how bad is it? All right, scale one to ten. Like, no, you need a real lawyer for this one, not me. Yeah, what can I expect here? Yeah, how fucked am I? I know you can't, whatever, but just like, but just like you know what level one to ten how bad is it yeah i just remember one time somebody was like yeah jay

billis looked at my lease and i was like that's that's a cool stat yeah like they knew jay billis he had a degree um i assume he passed the bar maybe he didn't i don't know he's obviously really intelligent and decided to go to law school in his spare time. And then somebody I knew was like, yeah, Jay Billis looked at my lease. I was like, that's a great stat. Great stat.

I mean, I don't know. I don't know if that's an opener because you'd be like, and then what happened, right? But anyway. No, it's your pretty standard lease, you know, isn't it? Yeah.

$1,200 a month, you know. Jay Billis is like, I don't, wait a minute. The deposit isn't an escrow want me to call him alright this last summer I had a little fling with a girl

named Isabella ooh she sounds spicy gang alright she was a ton of fun maybe the hottest girl I've ever dated but we didn't have intellectual compatibility this is the nicest way I can put it luckily for me I studied abroad this last fall in Japan. It was a built-in excuse to discontinue things at the end of the summer. We haven't spoken since. Reaping went great. Sewing, not so much. I recently returned from Japan and Isabella

reached out to me, but instead of simply meeting up, she wants to get dinner, which she offered to pay for, and have me look over her new contract. Isabella is an actress and is about to sign with a new agency and has a deal she's unsure about. It's kind of what the agents are supposed to do, but that's fine. I have a good idea what will happen. We'll meet up. She'll look great. And I'll question whether I really do need someone who hasn't read a book since high school, but I also want to legally help her out. She gave the caveat that she would also be thankful to have someone else I know look over the contract, but do I really want a classmate of mine to look over a contract from a girl I dated? Man, you are putting a bunch of fucking qualifiers in this one.

Maybe if it's a woman classmate. I could also reach out to real attorneys. I worked with last summer in my internship and have stayed friends with. I'm wondering if there are any other options or possible pitfalls i'm not thinking of alternatively i could just say fuck it get a free dinner with a beautiful woman have a future me figure out all the issues spending time with her what do you think yeah i don't like that idea oh you don't that was the that was the only one i liked go kyle you lie right i mean you know you look it over right and then it's like you know you're pretty confident you're pretty confident in your own abilities and be like yeah i'll send it over wait a day

and be like yeah my buddy says it's great too full steam ahead or it's like hey maybe or you know just whatever just trust your gut you guys are making this way more complicated with saruti what was yours i just i don't think that the last one makes sense because you're just creating a future problem for yourself. He's like, oh, what's the harm? I'll just have dinner with a beautiful woman. Yeah, but then like some things happen and who knows, you hook up

and now all of a sudden you're creating future problems for yourself that you didn't need. And then she's gonna be like, oh, I will definitely look over my thing. I just think you don't wanna get that deep into the weeds. Like don't involve yourself that deeply. Either pass it on or look at it yourself, but don't go out to dinner with her and make it something well what if he was a plumber and she had a clogged drain would that be any different

and i know i know how that just sounds but no um i didn't mean plumber wasn't the best but whatever fine you know what for this one maybe it does work out um like what's the Carl Hungus? It's a random pipe, dude. Carl Hungus, yeah. To answer your question. It's a cable. I don't know. I think it's different. You're not going out to dinner with the plumber afterwards. I don't know if you guys can hear that alarm.

I'm just going to do a quick aside here. This would be a life advice, but the house that I moved into, there's some guy apparently that has his alarms set to the most sensitive thing ever he's never there and um he calls the cops on people through the camera if somebody's like parked there to drop off food so the alarm is going off again it goes off twice a day and he's not there so it just rides it out until it just decides to not. And cops never show up anymore either. So maybe I shouldn't advertise that on the podcast. It seems like an HOA situation.

It's not. What if I stopped that? No, it's just independent homes. I'm just saying, it sounds like an HOA would actually be a nice thing to have. It's brutal, man. Brutal. Sorry. All right.

Okay, so the alarm went off. That's good. All right uh to this i think you guys are i'm i see this differently right i see i see this differently and here's why um clearly you kind of want to hang out with her but you don't want to date her um you're 26 who gives a shit you're gonna be in a nursing home watching a Pistons game in a wheelchair one day and you're going to go, you know what? That Isabella, she was

something else. What was wrong with me? Now, granted, if you have all sorts of options, then maybe the 26-year-old hot actress who doesn't read a ton is not your deal. Maybe you have somebody who looks like her that has read

something recently and you feel like there's more of a connection. But what I think you're doing here, you're giving yourself a lot of credit. You are the catch. And maybe you are. Maybe you are. I'm not saying that you're not. But you are telling us a story that tells you all of this is up to you. Again, maybe it is. But what I'm going to tell you is that she is a hot actress who it sounds like is actually getting a deal here. And she's not even going to be fucking thinking about you the first time some other actor who's part of the lifestyle, who's not a boring lawyer, who reads all the time. She'll make the decision likely for you if she actually is acting

in tv shows or a movie so i would say have fun and don't worry about it because you're not going to be she's been thinking her whole life of meeting somebody who isn't you okay all right we don't see i disagree okay first of all do we know that this contract, this contract could be like a one off thing for like a local furniture store? It doesn't have like it doesn't it doesn't mean she's going to be like an NCIS tomorrow or something. You know, she's not going to be on a new HBO show. So, yeah, maybe she blows up, but it's more likely that she probably doesn't. And you're also I mean, you're you know, you said he is giving himself a lot of credit, but he's a young lawyer who dated a hot

quote-unquote model. So he's probably doing all right for himself as well. So I don't think you just need to, again, I don't think you need to create more problems for yourself by just hooking up,

like, you know, potentially hooking up with this girl that you clearly don't, that you clearly don't want to, like, deal with. No, that's, because that's the implication

for the dinner thing. Like he's saying, have a nice dinner with an attractive woman. Like, obviously, we know what the end game is there. And I just think I'm just saying, I don't think you want to do that to yourself. I think you got one shoppy rabbit. Don't fucking let it slip.

He's already had the shot. He doesn't want the shot anymore, either. He ended it. Also, to your commercial comment, didn't he didn't wasn't this her signing a contract with an agency that she was worried about? Like, are these is this group going to be the ones people always sign to agencies i just i'm not again it doesn't mean that she's like dude people always signed agencies you guys are acting like she's the next sydney sweeney like who knows i didn't send any pictures there's a bunch of sydney sweeney's running around who just never made it, dude. That's for sure.

Okay. I don't know, man. I think you're doing just fine yourself. You're a lawyer. You're in the third year of law school. Spent some time in Japan. Yeah, exactly. You've been abroad, so you're much more intelligent than everybody else. I don't know. I just wouldn't

mess that up. I'd pass it on. Well, you know, that's going to be an age thing because I'm just telling you as you get a little bit older you start going back like what the fuck was I thinking who cares do it do it alright two to one

overruled tribunal is split it's fine. I feel good about my stance. I don't feel bad about it. I just, I'm glad that you offered it up. I just, I think I know kind of who she is and what her desires are going to be. And if she gets into the mix here, you know, even if she doesn't, she's still thinking about it. Or maybe this guy's just an awesome lawyer who can be like oh that reminds me of a time when i was in tokyo okay big fan of the show uh the title here is i was hot but

not now how do i cope oh man yeah this is a tough one a lot of guys are like pulling over they're looking in the rearview mirror being like fuck alright big fan of the show Jim's stats are meh but I dunk pretty easily for a 39 year old with a desk job 64205 which is kind of relevant to my issue so since early college I've been pretty hot don't get me wrong

I'm not Calvin Klein model Shamar Moore Timothy Chalamet what's up with Chalamet's chin, by the way, Sruti? What's going on with his chin? You know, I saw the video, and it looked like somebody just found the one thing where he was, you know, making some sort of, saying some word that, like, made his face do that.

But you see the video, and it's like, you can't even see it where that is. Like, that might even be Photoshop. That could be a deep fake. Anyone, you get them at a bad angle, and it's not going to be. His chin, it looks like it can you know it could cut like diamonds like he has an aggressive like borderline too aggressive

jawline and i just think they caught him at the wrong angle but yeah so many people were adding me on that i'm like i don't have any comment man it is what it is i don't i don't love the the you can't comment i'll tell you that right now you can't no comment that you have to have a comment my comment is that i don't think it's a big deal and it's a bad angle. I will say I don't really love the Kylie Jenner thing. I don't love it. Okay. All right.

So our guy says, he says not Shamar Moore, not Calvin Klein, not Chalamet if he was a full-size man hot. I'm more like Jake Gyllenhaal hot, just a regular dude who's fairly handsome. I think Jake's a little bit more than just a regular dude who's fairly handsome. I think Jake's a little bit more than just a regular dude to preempt Saruti here. But I get the point. We're all on the same page. I keep things moving. However, I've noticed I'm being treated differently

now that I'm staring down 40 years old with thinner hair, a softer chin line, and more than a little gray. I get less attention at the business conference or around the office. No one really hits on me and I never get something for free at a bar or restaurant. This shouldn't really matter to me. I have a lovely wife of nearly 15 years and four beautiful kids. I even have a job that doesn't require attractiveness. Yes, I have to confess my ego is not ready to be this normal. All three men, as three men who are maturing gracefully in their respective stages of life, do you have any suggestions for how I deal with this?

Well, first of all, dude, the fact that you love your wife, you're married, you get the kids and the whole deal, and you're still dunking at 39. I'm like, I might email you for advice. So I wonder how hot this guy really was was he should have sent us a before and after it sounds like let's give him the benefit of the doubt do we all agree let's move forward

as if this guy really was that kind of hot yeah kind of guy the free stuff at bars thing that's what really i was like okay like i got like one or two friends that like are so hot that they do like women buy them drinks at bars and sometimes even me because i'm standing next to them you know what i mean like there's some there's some dudes that just women will drinks at bars and sometimes even me because I'm standing next to them. You know what I mean? Like there's some, there's some dudes that just women will look at that and be like, you know what? To hell with the rules of society.

I'm buying this guy a drink. So I think the fact that he even said that, like, is it happening anymore? If there was a period of time when that happened, he must've been, he must've been up there. Yeah.

I think that's, that's fair. Because if any, if whether it's our guys talking now or you know, people listening to this, you kind of know who those dudes are like, and you fucking hate them. I remember traveling once, I think this is the Jamaica trip. It was, um, I would say a casual friend at the time. He wasn't a core guy and it wasn't going to be somebody I was keeping in touch with years later

and all those things happened. But he just was like, if you could have any super power, what would it be? And I was like, well, Superman sort of like you can't take him because everything's perfect and it's fine, the whole deal. He's got the power bundle. Yeah, he just has it all. He has a power bundle.

If there were a fantasy league or something, you just wouldn't be allowed to take Superman and then you'd have to take everybody else. You know, I think the Wolverine thing would be kind of cool. Just the healing, although it might get a little boring living that long. Um, but my back wouldn't hurt, you know, that'd be kind of cool. You know, maybe you don't tell anybody getting an MMA,

it'd be like the greatest fight, but it'd be sort of sort of unfair but yeah so i started like throwing these things out there and he was like i would love to just be like the hottest guy in the world and i was like oh oh you went you went a different route what's your dream job dude right he's like girls would just be like helpless like oh my god i gotta bang that guy so hot he's like that's what i would want and i was like don't tell anybody else this story like that was i don't know i don't think it's imagine being joe manganello for a day you know that'd be fucking awesome right that's the life i've never even known yeah so um the only thing is i was reading it i don't know that i have any advice by the way but the only thing i was reading as i was reading it i was thinking like are you not getting attention from younger women because then i thought he was

single like the whole time i was thinking about single because there was definitely a line for me where you know it was less aware to me than it was until it like i was like oh okay i'm like this is no longer like this range is over it is over you get fucking gray stuff in your beard like it's fucking meeting somebody i remember i met somebody through mutual friend i was kind of like hmm i wonder and the person was like my dad fucking loves you i was like awesome and uh you know i was like all right dad fucking loves you. I was like, awesome. And, uh, you know, I was like, all right, yeah, that's not, that's probably not going to work out. So that could have been it where I was going to say, you know, you might need to kind of

like slide your prices, right? Scale up to a different range here if you feel like, but clearly you being hot, having these powers is like a big part of what your deal is um i bet i bet older women well you don't go to the gym i bet you older women at the gym check would check you out that's what i would do i would just actually i know this sounds like a default for a lot of things i think you should just go to the gym and get in a little bit better shape here if it's that important reasons did he give any reasons? Did he gain weight? Is it hair?

Is his face just going out a little bit more? I don't know. He said softer chin line. More than a little gray. Thinning hair. Gray's not a bad thing, though. Sometimes gray looks good on a dude. How thin is the hair?

Could you go, yeah, Grateful Dead. That's Chris Long's favorite Grateful Dead song. Do you think you could, I mean, do you need a makeover here? Right. Is that what our guy's saying? You got to call Queer Eye, right? To get the guys in there, like give you a little lift?

You could just grab a GQ and be like, where's that shirt from? You know? What's that hair style? Yeah. All right. That guy's a little thinner. Like, are you thin, thin, or could you go? Cause you know, some dudes want to cut it shorter as if they have a full head of hair, if they're going gray or white or whatever, you know, but then again, then there's a Steve Phillips where some women loved it. You know, they're like, look at that, look at that white haired devil. I don't think the

women that this guy's looking for, though, were the Steve Phillips type. Fair. Yeah, I wonder what this situation is. People get that, get that. Is this something that you could, like, is this like a new wardrobe and

like, you know, something like that'll fix? Because this like a new wardrobe and like uh you know something like that will fix or because like i walk around and i'm just out and about and i see a dude and i'll be like maybe he's like late 60s or something like that i'm just like there's no way this guy resembled this person when he was like 20 i just wonder so maybe i think some people like some people age like fucking harrison ford and roger sterling and i think other people it's just like how like i can't even imagine what 20 year old that guy looks like like i don't know i think there's something with like some dudes their nose just like keeps grow like they have like growth hormones in their face or so i don't know what the fuck it is but like some guys i think when they get older it's just like i can't even imagine there's no way you even looked a little

bit like that so maybe that like is it is that happening to you or is it just like you could tighten up a few things yeah that could be it i i this sounds like a clothing overhaul you know get some inspiration flip through the magazines take a look and it's like oh this is right because this is also mid midlife crisis time sort of right this is sort of right around that spot i don't think you want to do the car i mean here's the thing like what do you i mean you could say hey are you actually that narcissistic that you need attention from something outside of your own world where everything is really good like you have it really good but you kind of still need and i don't even know that that's narcissistic you know like it's it's it's a lot like it could be like basketball you know where i remember in the men's league where why it was the last time i played in one

where they went with a different closing five and i was on the bench and i was like i'm fucking done with this shit i was like i'll never play another game for this team i was like you're fucking kidding me and maybe it was right for me to be on the bench, but I didn't like the way it felt. I was like, I'm not, you're going to be kidding me. Maybe that's what our guy's feeling here right now a little bit. So it doesn't have anything to do with anything else. He just doesn't like the way that it feels.

I'd say mix in a salad and order some rag and bone shirts. It kind of sucks too because people are rooting for this guy's downfall too. Right. Because if you were the hot guy, like your whole life, everyone's kind of like taking victory laps on like, Oh, look,

who's not hot anymore. So hope you have some skills. So that should, that should motivate you though. That should motivate you. Like as Ryan said, get back in the gym, you know,

maybe, maybe wear more hats. Send a message to the haters. That's right. Yeah. I don't think it's a hat. Yeah. It might just be back in the gym, you know, maybe maybe wear more hats. Send a message to the haters. That's right. Yeah, I don't think it's a hat. Yeah, it might just be thinner. But, you know, look, if you have a straight up bald spot like I did, your pool has been diminished. OK, good thing you have a wife, especially when you're younger.

Right. Yeah, it just is like there was no girl when it first started happening. It's like, oh, I met this really cool guy with with big arms but he's a massive bald spot in the back of his head I can't wait for you to meet him I think there was a number but like Bezos walking around I don't know look at Bezos when he was younger now look at him it's just you put the richest

guy in the world I don't know I'm just saying who else my only point is that you reach a certain point that doesn't matter. In your bank account and your successes and your renown.

Yeah, okay. Okay. So if you get anybody listening, if you're going bald, just fucking follow Baz's path. Just do what he did.

Yeah, just start Amazon. Yeah. It's not that hard. There wasn't real specific crisp, efficient advice in there, but I think there was enough that he can sort of pick from in the whole thing honestly you should have sent a before and after pick yeah this is one of those really should have i but i almost like that he didn't makes me like the guy but you

know again maybe hit the gym mix in a salad get some fancier shirts slash shoes maybe maybe a little by rado scent all of a sudden something a little different but again what are you really doing you want attention for people you really doing? You want attention for people you actually don't really need attention from. Yeah, you've been married for 15 years. Yeah. Is it 15? I think you said 15, didn't you? He's got four kids. That'd be

funny if he just came back from like Nordstrom one day. Just a completely different guy. That's the other thing. I wonder if you have to slowly introduce and figure out what works best. But yeah, if he just comes into like all right i'm i'm suit guy now i'm suit guy and i got suspenders and that's my look his wife's like wait what it's like oh yeah also this is this is light blue don't check him out of light blue that's my new scent yeah you're right it was 15 years she must have been a smoke show show to hook up with you when he was

that hot at 20. Imagine how hot he was at 24. Okay, that's the show for today. Thanks to Stefan, Saruti, and Kyle back in 24 hours. A lot of NBA and some more NFL on the Ron Russo

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