The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Georgia-Bama Preview and the Top Tier of CFB With Bruce Feldman, Derrick Rose Retires, Plus Gordon Hayward Stops By

Episode Date: September 27, 2024

Russillo starts the show by sharing his thoughts on Derrick Rose’s career before Ceruti joins to discuss Ryen’s golf game (0:49). Then, Russillo is joined by Bruce Feldman to break down NIL, preview Alabama-Georgia, and talk best team in the country (23:27). Next, Gordon Hayward comes on to reveal his thoughts on retirement, his favorite young players, and his time in Boston (61:12). Plus, another edition of The Alliance and Life Advice with Kyle and Ceruti (86:33)! How should I handle my girlfriend putting an engagement ring on? Check us out on YouTube for exclusive clips, live streams, and more at https://www.youtube.com/@RyenRussilloPodcast. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Bruce Feldman and Gordon Hayward Producers: Steve Ceruti, Kyle Crichton, and Mike Wargon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On today's podcast, we talk to Eric Rose retirement and I talk about my golf outing with a friend. And we talk about it for a long time. So you can pass forward that if you want to. We've got Gordon Hayward though. He is somebody who played in the NBA. So we've got NBA stories, but he also is a producer, production company, making movies. His movie is out tonight. Notice to quit.

And Bruce Feldman on the college football landscape. A little of the NIL stuff, what he's hearing from UNLV and why isn't Tennessee maybe the best team in the country? The Alliance. Couch Money Research and Life Advice. Miller Lite. The light beer brewed for people who love the taste of beer and the perfect pairing for your game time. When Miller Lite set out to brew a light beer, they had to choose great taste or 90 calories per can. They chose both because they knew the best part of beer

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Must be 21 and older and present in select states. Gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. I wanna start today talking about Derrick Rose. He announced his retirement yesterday, 16 years in the NBA. Played 15 but obviously missed that one year with the injury. So when I saw the 16 years, I thought, Oh, that's, that's right. It's been 16 years. I like to think back to the kind of the beginning of Derrick Rose awareness.

New is a big time recruit. Memphis goes on that great run. Beasley was considered the number one pick consensus, number one overall pick going into the draft that year. And then for a good chunk of his season at Kansas state. And then when you've watched Rose, we talk about some of these guys that are really good at just being on the ball creators and guys who can just get by. Anybody.

There's some really special ones. And then there's Derek Rose. I get just was crazy. So you started kind of talking and like, you don't have to listen to me talk about it, but when I go to draft camps, different teams that I would talk to, just leading up to the draft, you just felt all of this momentum just shift going, you know, looks like it would probably be, it just should be Rose. Cause like, you know, at the very least he is perhaps one of the best on-ball guys getting to where he needs to go that

we've ever seen. And I think it played out that way for the early stages of his career. So he wins rookie of the year. He goes number one, as we know, to his hometown team, he wins the MVP in his third year. And at the time, the LeBron debate existed. And then you go back and look at the numbers and

you're like, what happened here? Uh, I don't know. And at the time the LeBron debate existed, and then you go back and look at the numbers and you're like, what happened here? So let's go over a couple of things. I think this 2011 thing will come up and it'll come up, he's gonna make it to the hall of fame. The debate at the time were really based on a few things. The value of new, Derek Rose was new,

LeBron was not. It was a great story, right? He's in Chicago, they're the one seed. The one seed thing, you know, that's sort of the seeding stuff with the MVP. I think it's really, really dicey. Where you just go, okay, a couple games here or there, like what if he had teammates that were out on this team and then that guy's, the rest of his team was healthy, but he may play, you know what I mean? Like there's

just a lot of factors there where if you want to tell me it's a one seed versus seven seed, okay, like it even happened this past year where it's like, okay, well the Thunder of the One Seed, so Shay Gillich is out of the standard, like he has to be, it's super competitive west. Like, look, if you want to just vote for SGA, vote for SGA, that's fine. But when the standings are this minimal, I think it can be overvalued, but that was part of it, because you're just going to use it to your side if you're going to argue for Derek Rose. And I also think LeBron was being judged on the previous two LeBron seasons where he'd already won MVP.

And there's some statistical dip there a little bit. Um, had LeBron won that one in 2011, that would have been five straight. The voting was overwhelming. Rose won with 113 first place votes. Howard came in second that year with three first place votes. LeBron had four first place votes. Kobe was the only other player in the league to get a vote. He had one first place vote. So again, 113 for Rose, eight for everybody else. I'll tell you this though. If you go back and look at it, Whoa, it's like, how did, how did that happen again? Well, remember voters are generally writers, even

way more so back then. I mean, they're probably all writers back then writers like stories, the Derek Rose story was the better story, but yeah, there's, there's a lot of I mean, they're probably all writers back then. Writers like Stories, the Derek Rose story was the better story. But yeah, there's, if you go back and do some accounting, you'll think how did that happen and how was it so overwhelming?

But there's kind of like a little bit of a lesson, I don't know if it's a lesson, but there's something in there that I do think about because what's a lesson, but there's something in there that I do think about because what's more accurate, the perception of what's happening at the time it's happening or just scrolling through basketball referencing going, well, this guy was good and this guy was better than that guy. Because I do think there is some value, right? I do believe there is value in, there's certain players where I'll look at the statistical line.

I go, yeah, but what was happening that year was I don't know if this is a perfect reflection of like what was actually happening that year with that player. I think it happens with quarterbacks a lot too. You'll look at some stats, but no, those stats are actually pretty good. You know, how state fans go like, this is Kyle McCord. Five years from now, they're like, why did Kyle McCord leave? Right. So I do think there's, no, I, I, it's not even a think. I believe in it. I, I, why watch any of these games? If you're just going to wait a few years and go back and be like, every statistical ranking tells 100% truth and everything

that you saw in the moment was completely irrelevant. Some people believe that I refused to believe that, um, it's, it's this hard and fast rule because in 2011, even if you look back, it's just like, how did LeBron not win the MVP that year? Maybe being removed a decade is the wrong way to look at it. And just going through a bunch of stats and realizing like the Derek Rose thing felt real, or maybe, you know, again, maybe we're a prison of the entire moment. Um, and I think that's the, that's the, that like the Derek Rose thing felt real or maybe, you know, again, maybe we're a prison of the entire moment.

Um, a year later, game one, first round against Philadelphia tears his knee up and that's really kind of it for him. I mean, we can argue about how productive he was. We can look at some of the raw stats, but it was just never the same. And, you know, if you look at the string of negative stuff, and certainly we've got the off the court civil case as well, but with the Bulls where he is this, you know,

he's the son of the city. He's this next thing, you know, like that's kind of haunted by the greatest player ever and not that anybody's even expected to live up to that standard. He was everything that you would have wanted when he was drafted and in those first few years to represent this fan base that's incredible. It just seemed like this perfect, perfect story. And then he comes back from the injury, but then he doesn't come back from the injury. this fan base that's incredible. It just seemed like this perfect, perfect story. And then he comes back from the injury, but then he doesn't come back.

Remember that he got cleared and then he didn't wanna play. And he said something about like, still have to worry about the rest of my future. So things start really turning on him. Then he ends up at the next, remember there was that story in 2017 where he just left the team for a day, but then he came back. I was reading through that this morning.

Like all of these little things were huge at the time, especially the injury controversy of like whether or not he could have been back out there and playing if he was scared to come back and play what he owed the team, what he owed himself. But what I think is really cool for Rose is right now, he is so revered by players. I was listening to a long interview with him. I don't know how recent it was, but I was listening to him and he was like, okay, this is somebody that has grown up through all of this and has some really great perspective

on the rest of the league and kind of like where he's been. And I remember Simmons and I were arguing about Westbrook a little bit. Um, and it was basically the point of like, who takes the court where you go, okay, well, this, this person is just different. Like this is different. And look, I've said many times, I think Westbrook's the best athlete that's ever played in the NBA, but the position, it wasn't like it was some heated debate with Bill or I, but we were going through like a list of players that we've seen in this last generation of when you went to go see this person play live, like you knew it was a different experience. And he was arguing up Westbrook probably a little bit more than I was,

but I get his point. I think it's a lot of why I'll hear players talk about Kyrie. I'm like, these guys love Kyrie and look, basketball players from the very beginning, what's the goal when you get that ball, you're like, put it in the hoop and score it's why, you know, when you look at all the ex podcasters or the ex players that are now podcasts, the majority of these guys all got buckets. So I think that there's a bias towards anybody that was just a bucket getter beyond it, they don't want to hear about efficiency.

They don't want to hear all this other stuff like who gets buckets. It's why you're never going to see like four X players sitting around saying, how come Kobe's ranked higher than Duncan? It's just never going to happen with any of the X players. And Rose is emphatically in that category of the player who at his peak was everything these guys would hope to be one day as players. And that's why there's that reverence. And that's what I think is like the cool part of you're looking at the

totality of Rose's career is yeah, the rest of it wasn't even close to being the same. He had some nice runs on a bunch of teams. It was, it was kind of fun to have them on your team for a little bit, but it's just also a reminder that it wasn't even close to what it was because when he was at his peak, forget it, he was going by you and he was beating everybody else to the rim in a way that like Iverson, he was doing things you just didn't think would be possible to dominate a basketball game at that size.

I don't know where he's going to stack up historically. He just doesn't have enough of those peak years. It's like a great band that just doesn't have the catalog, but at least I guess for him, he had the catalog and he had that season even without the playoff success. But I do think it kind of comes full circle for the way other players look at him going. He played the game the way I used to hope I could play when I was in the driveway.

Quick pivot here. You're home for golf, the Ryan Russo podcast. Uh, we're going to jump in with Saruti here as well. Um, Saruti former amateur golfer. Best scorer ever. Isn't everybody a current amateur golfer? Yeah, but you played high school golf. Do you ever think about playing at Quinnipiac?

Would you have been good enough? I think I probably could have walked. I was one of those weird people who was better when I was younger than I am now. I played golf every day when I was a kid. And then I kind of went through this weird lull of like post college, having a job and a family working the nine to five things certainly hurt. Once I was stopped working overnight to the ESPN, I was like, wait,

I can't just go golfing in the middle of the day. This sucks. Um, but I'm kind of back on the saddle again, although it's just like, I dunno, it's just, it's just frustrating. I played over the weekend and I just thought the course was incredibly unfair and I had a terrible day. I was like, Matt, the entire time because I'm like, the Greens aren't fair. Is anybody even having fun? I'm not having fun. Is anybody else having fun? Um, which I think is, you know, like a lot of golfers, but I'm surprised that you, cause you

used to always be like anti-golf guy. You used to get so mad about it with Van Pelt when he would ask people like, how's your game going in an interview? And you'd be like, that's the worst question, I hate it. And now you're back all in on the stick, so I love it. Yeah, I didn't hate golf guy. I hated that we had in a seven to eight minute window for a radio interview that we would waste a bullet

on how you hitting them. Yep, yep. So I hated it because I was a radio host, not because I despised the game. Yeah, you want to peak efficiency out of the interview. I get that, I get it. No wasted breath. Yeah.

And then it was funny because it just became open season, where Scott knew I hated it. And every now and then, he'd be like, hey, long and straight, buddy. Yeah. And then he would kind of look at me. And then it just became funny because he was doing it just to fuck with me.

And so I didn't have, yeah, look, golf career, pretty limited, didn't play it. We didn't have that kind of Southington, Connecticut, Saruti money growing up. So didn't play any golf. Big country club guy, your boy over here. Staples North. So I didn't play and then yeah,

all the hockey Vermont guys would come back and they played all the time. And I had a really friendly golf schedule, bartending. So I was like, let me pick this up. But I didn't really have the temperament for it. I didn't necessarily play all that well. And then the year I joined a club, I think was like $600 to join. I broke my hand trying to dunk.

So, uh, that was it. That was it. And then I didn't have any money for a really long time. And then when I was at ESPN, it was basically the way the show worked. I was nine to five and I still would much rather play basketball or lift. So there wasn't really any window. And when you're in new England and you have the nine to five going anyway, your golf season is

pretty short, even though there's a really nice course right next to where I live. I think I hit balls there a couple of times just to see like what it would feel like. But yeah, in the last year plus I've decided like you're going to have to figure this out as you get older and you can't suck at it because you're going to hate that. So anyway, um, I've been playing regularly, like once a week, the last

regularly, I shouldn't even say that I've been trying to cram in around a week, the last four or five weeks in preparation for Pinehurst where I'm playing there, uh, coming up here soon, we're going to like 16 dudes. So we haven't done this in a long time. And then are they good or a lot of them good or is it like casual guys? of Pinehurst where I'm playing there, coming up here soon. We're going to like 16 dudes. So we haven't done this in a long time. And then guys were- Are they good or a lot of them good or is it like casual guys?

Yeah, guys started sending their handicaps around to try to figure out the pairings for this stuff. And I was like, what the fuck is going on here? Like, once you guys are good. Like there's always a couple of guys in your friend group that have just been scratch golfers like since they were teenagers. They just grew up with it.

Again, shout out to Staples. But some of these other guys that I expected to not be that good, they're handed an 11 and 13 handicaps. I was like, what is this? So I haven't had a lot of, the first couple of rounds out, I actually shot well, which didn't make any sense. And now I'm hitting the ball so much better and the scores are just getting worse and worse and worse. So I had a 103, a 98, a 96, and then our big guy, Chad Wesley Smith, who joined us, um, trainer to the stars, who came on like all time powerlifting guy. He's a member at Mesa Verde and he had invited me down before. So I went down there. That's in Costa Mesa near Newport, not Newport, Vermont for those wondering.

And so I played around with him yesterday, 43 on the front, 52 on the back. Yeah. Well, it does seem like you're all the scores you named that you're trending in the right direction. You know, you're going scores going down. So that's good. Yeah. The par three course near me, it's a 10 hole par 30. I shot a 33 there. That's a new record for me. So yeah. So keep the par three part to yourself. Yeah they don't I don't think they let you put that in the old handicap deal there. Just a little background on Chad though just so you understand I was looking up because a clubhouse attendant came up to him as we were getting our

bags and leaving for the day. He was like dude I, I saw. Yeah. I think he called him Mr. Smith too. I saw your 900 pound squat. So there's a video of him squatting 900 pounds on YouTube. He also did, uh, 12 reps of 635. He did 22 reps of 500. He's, he's just a beast of a guy. We were tied after the front nine. And then, um then I absolutely fell apart on the 18th, which sucks because I have this habit of having awful eighteenths and then I have a bad taste in my mouth the rest of the ride home. But it was good. You're not always closing. Yeah, I'm not.

Not. And I think that might have been club selection and away game thing. So I'd like to maybe we could spend 20 minutes going shot by shot if you'd like to do that. So, you know, put that on your Instagram. Yeah, just put all your golf shots up. That's what people do now. You know, I will say this isn't meant to be

a diss or disrespectful at all. But remember like back in the day when Tiger, it was like, is he too, Rory, I think we did this too, was like, is he too jacked to play golf? You guys are really pushing that line. Like, I mean, Chad, Chad's a big dude. Like physically, is like, is he too jacked to play golf? You guys are really pushing that line. I mean, Chad, Chad's a big dude. Physically, is he, like, how does that, I just wanna see him swing.

His arms are like too big. He's good, he's steady. I don't think, I think he played below his standards. Maybe I brought him down yesterday, and it was great. We had, they were just like, you guys can go off as a two, and we just flew through. It was terrific. But the, the real part of the story, and I, if people fast forward this, I will not be surprised, but I had played there one other time. Okay.

And so Chad was like, all right, we're playing with Joe Staley, play tackle for the Niners and great guy. I mean, you want to talk about a couple of ridiculous, large human shots. Like what did you just hit? He was like, oh, it was five iron. Like, okay. I was like, why are they driving off the tee? Are they like, I mean, everybody's 200 plus now

it feels like. With Staley, it wasn't even about the bombs off the tee. He hit a five iron like 30 yards over the green because I think he hit a 250 plus or something stupid. Because he just hit it flush and you know and he was good but the other guy in the group was this guy Ryan Knapp who's Jake Knapp's brother Jake Knapp who's on the PGA tour who's like everybody's favorite golfer now amongst my friends um number two still behind Homa let's not get carried away maybe Finau's two or three

but now it's like really good, right? The, the brother, I think the guy I played with had the course record. And so I had just come fresh off of a visit club champion in Vegas. Cause I was in Vegas constantly for work and I had some downtime. So I looked at Ferrari's, we covered that. And then, um, I went to get fitted. I was like, I need better. She, cause, cause Matt Bushman played with me and he goes, you

have way too light of shafts. Can't have shafts like this, dude. Not for you. What are you high volume day? It's like, you need to have your shafts. So I was like, perfect. What a great opportunity to spend money on golf. I'll go get fitted.

I'll make the appointment and I'm going to get these shafts. And so we go out, we start testing it out. He's like, what kind of irons do you have? I tell him, because it's probably a little advanced for you. And I was like, that's yeah, but it keeps me pure. And I'm just going to work my way up to playing into the blades that I have. I'm just kidding. I don't have blades, but they're close.

to playing into the blades that I have. I'm just kidding, I don't have blades, but they're close. So we start testing out shafts and it's, you know, in the beginning it was a disaster. He's like, are you hungover? I was like, no, I didn't go out last night. Good start. Right, he was so, it was so bad the first few minutes, for whatever reason, like I just didn't have it locked in.

And I'm like sitting there, you ever hit a ball where you're like, who the fuck was that? Who just hit that? That was me? Like, can I not actually do this? He goes, we may have to shut this down. Like after a couple of hits, he's like, we may just have to just call it.

And then he's like, are you hungover or something? I was like, no, I didn't do anything last night. He's like, well, that's even worse then. So finally I got warmed up. And by the way, am I making this long? Yes, I am for all of you that tell everybody, every one of your scores and stroke by stroke and every fucking swing and what should happen. And if the trap lip wasn't there. So you now have to suffer too.

This guy was like, you know, you're, you're pretty powerful guy. Thank you. He's like, you need to swing harder. I was like, do I, I hear, I don't, I should swing less hard all the time. He's like, no, he's like, why would you, you need to swing harder. I was like, do I, I can hear. I don't, I should swing less hard all the time. He's like, no, he's like, why would you, why would you not use this power that you have he's like, let's try this shaft. And of course it was the most expensive shaft, like really expensive.

And I'm swinging so hard. And then he'd go back to the other shaft. Then we'd go back to the other shaft then we go back to the expensive one we try a different one the whole time he's like look you're gonna miss because you're not great because but look at your distance and look at your miss range with this shaft like the numbers tell you you're better with this shaft I'm like dude I gotta tell you I don't think I'm gonna play golf this way though like swinging this hard your shoes yeah. Yeah. I don't think that's going to

work. He's like, yeah, but if you don't do this or all these different, and by the way, they were great club champions. So this is not anything other than me just telling you where I was. And so I ended up grabbing those. And then this first round that I played at Mesa Verde, it was the first day with the new shafts. And I was like, this is going to be awesome. And then Knapp, of course, was like a scratch golfer and has the course record. He was like, those are pretty nice shafts. And I don't even screw around. I go, I just buy shit, dude.

I was like, putter, what's the most expensive one? He's like, this one's awesome. I was like, done. I'm just admitting it. I'm a total mark. Don't care when it comes to that stuff. Be like, wait, that I can change the loft on the club. I'll get that one then too.

So loser move, admitting it. I go out and play so bad, so bad that I haven't even played with those clubs since. So then at the turn, I see Nap and he's like, kind of like thumbs up, thumbs down. Cause apparently even Homer was like, how bad is my, how bad is Rossello? He's like, he was awful. And then I was like, what's that?

I go, I go 43 and he's like, Thumbs up, thumbs up. And then of course it fell back, fell apart on the back. I would have played another 18 yesterday, except I had to come back. Yeah. I, we got done and I was like, I could play another 18. I'm hitting the ball well enough. I'm pissed about a couple of things. Now I've played the course. I know what not to hit on 18. I'm ready to go, but I had to rush back to watch the giants and cowboys hold

each other for four fucking hours last night. And that's why this is the open today. There you go. Yeah. I mean I had I had a little if Daniel Jones had pulled it out and be like what Daniel Jones like oh you need another quarterback segment. Awesome. So yeah gave you a little golf. I agree though that's that's good. Great golf stories, but I also agree with you like we need to start a petition to like not every football game is worth talking about and that one was not.

I love it. I love when I start to see people that are pushing back a little bit. Like Van had one last night was like, football should be Sunday, Monday. And when they had the Friday game, I was like, Hey, and by the way, the NFL, I've been saying this for years, they're going to find a way to have this seven nights a week, they're going to find a way and then everybody's going to send their football memes, football, football. I need a break from football. I don't want it. I don't want to NBA seven nights a week. All right. Uh, I am,

I am with you. Some people have been brainwashed to think the worst four hours of NFL football is good. And it's like, I don't care what the rating is. That wasn't fun. That sucked last night. And I didn't have it open. So I made you suffer through my golf stories. We're all better for it. Don't worry about it. It's a new day.

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when you want. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Learn more at mx.ca slash ymx terms apply. I can't believe it took this long. The star of Fox's college football coverage and one of the best college football writers in the country for the athletic. It's Bruce Feldman. Good to see you. Good to see you again. Okay. Let's talk some ball. Uh, okay.

You're always good on the NIL stuff too. And I know the athletic just in general has been really good on it. You know, all the twists and turns, just a lot of really good resources there. So we had this, you know, these story, uh, with the quarterback saying he's leaving because of just money he was promised that he never got. I think there's other versions of the story where I think the program was like, we really like our backup. So, you know, what, if you're making demands on us now and you frame it,

it's, I don't, you know, again, I'm not a hundred percent sure. I'm pretty sure they really liked their backup and maybe they're okay with this. Maybe it's a rallying cry for the rest of the way, but what do you think, what's your best guess at what happened here with SLUKA? You know, Ryan, I think like a lot of cases in NIL, it's really murky, you know, because in most cases, players commit somewhere there's no signed contract for them. So it's UNLV, and I, so some of the NIL agents

I've talked to have said, this is UNLV. If you know how things work in this conference, this isn't Oregon, this isn't Ole Miss, this isn't a school with deep, deep pockets that's throwing around a lot of money. They have a really good receiver right now, Ricky White, who came back. I don't think Ricky White's getting this kind of money that was speculated that the transfer quarterback, Matthew Sluca, who had been a good quarterback at Holy Cross, was getting. Again, you're not going to the SEC. You're not going to the Big Ten. You're

going to a Mountain West program that, by the way, until Barry Odom got there, was horrible for 40 years. Also worth noting, last year their starting quarterback going into the year was one of the better players in the conference. He gets hurt early on. Jaden Maiava, freshman quarterback, gets thrown in, plays terrific. Jaden Maiava ends up leaving for NIL money to go to USC this year. He's not the starter. So if you think about it, if UNLV was really thinking about throwing a bunch of money around,

they would have thrown it at their quarterback who is just a freshman of the mountain, freshman player of the year in the Mountain West, who still has eligibility and knows the system in in and out, then go after somebody from the other side of the country and have him come in. Especially because, like you said, I agree. I know people inside that program, talking to them back in training camp, they like the other transfer they brought in from another small school, Campbell, Haj Malik Williams. They think he probably throws it better than Matthew Sluca.

He's faster. Now, he may not be quite as tough. And I think that that was probably a little bit of the difference in their decision and who became the starter, but there's three and O and I would not at all be surprised if they keep rolling along with the backup. Is there any movement to have more clarity with the NIL? Cause I remember like when it was first kind of announced and you were writing that basically all these programs are going, now it's just on, and it's kind of free.

Now look, some programs basically just changed the business model of what is happening with compensation. I think that's fair to say. But the NCA then, I don't know, what after a year after this free for all, was like, by the way, there's still rules. And then it was like, what are they? And then nothing really happens. I just, I wonder if there's another version of this that seems a little bit more clear or if this is just kind of what it is? Yeah, I think because it's in this gray area. You know, you've had a court case that's going on, that came out of Tennessee, that people thought,

okay, now the contracts are gonna be up front, but they really aren't. Most places aren't doing that. Even the places that are really good at NIL, and when I say really good, I mean they have deep pockets. They're not having kids have signed contracts till they show up. So there's that piece of it. Then there's another piece, you know, you mentioned some of the work the athletics done on NIL, we had a

really good series that we did in the spring. And I remember talking to some players who had been through the draft process, and they had one of them have been multiple time transfer at the ended up at three different schools. And he had a lot of knowledge on how different things work and everything else. And he pointed out something that I hadn't really thought of and I hadn't seen out there at the time, which was a player may think they're getting

a million dollar deal, but in a lot of cases, they're not. What they're getting is they may be living in a really fancy house that's a $300,000 house, but they don't own it. They just have access to it for four months. They may think they're getting a $100,000 car, but they don't own it. They're just getting it for four months. And so it's like what they think the value is compared to the monetary weight of what they're getting is very different. And so I think all this stuff is all over the map as it comes to what people are getting, whether people are following through on their payments of what they think they're getting. And also a lot of the people involved, agents typically have the reputation of being fairly

unscrupulous in the pros. Now you're getting them that are, and a lot of times way less credible because it's a newer, newer group of people who have jumped into this void, whether they're high school coaches or parents trying to do this or whatnot. It's just such a murky setup right now. And I think it's going to be that way for a, for a while. And you'll hear more of these stories come to light. Let's talk some ball here. I know you've seen a bunch of teams already on the road. You know, look, there's still plenty of teams that I'm sure you'd like to see Miami place tonight.

And it just felt like, hey, at some point, everything has to work out. And if there were a year where it would work out with the talent, with the recruiting, it would be when they would add somebody like Ham Org. Because when they start throwing up, I think Palmer was doing the game and it was when's the last time a quarterback from Miami was drafted in the first three rounds of the draft. Like it went all the way back to 1990 and it was nuts.

Yes. Even before Dorsey was a great college quarterback, but he wasn't a first round kind of guy. He was a seventh round guy. Wasn't he a seventh rounder? He was late. I mean, look, even Gino won a Heisman. Gino wasn't like, you know, Gino Toretto was kind of like the Danny Werfel of Miami.

Yeah, so let's just talk Miami. What's possible? I think they are going to make the playoff and I think they're gonna make a lot of noise in the playoff because the guy you mentioned, Cam Ward, is a tremendous talent. He can extend plays. He has a really strong arm.

He is also, everybody I've talked to inside that program raves about his leadership and presence. That's something that had really been lacking in terms of in that position. They felt like they were fairly rudderless. And Cam Ward has a spark, and that's been big. The other thing that, Mario know, Mario Cristobal has always had a reputation of being a really good recruiter. If you look at what he left behind at Oregon

and the guys who developed, he was really good on the O line. That was an area that Miami had been really underwhelming in for a long time. He upgraded that. But then you saw what they have done, not just Cam Ward, and they spent a bunch of money for Cam Ward. But in the portal, I would argue now, nobody, not even Oregon, has been better in the portal this year

than what Miami added. You have Cam Ward, you have the big running back Damien Martinez, you add Sam Brown, who is one of Dana Holgerson's receivers at Houston. You add in the D-line that they brought. I mean, they got a guy from, Tennessee's terrific. They have a D-lineman who looks like he is playing like a first round talent.

It's just all across the board what they've done. And then some of Cristobal's recruits, you see a running back Jordan Lyle, who is a freshman, went off last week. People I talked to inside the program there think he's the most talented Miami running back they've recruited in probably over a decade. So you add this mix of what they have, it's not to say they can't stub their toe.

We've seen this from almost every team that hasn't been established yet. It's still a ways before Miami can say, oh, the U is back. I will say this, this is by far the most talented team Miami has had in 20 years. Now how far that takes them, we'll see. I mean, they're still punching up, I would say, against Georgia and Ohio State, and maybe Texas. But almost anybody else, I think Miami can go toe to toe with them now. They weren't like that, even when they had the, you know, Manny Diaz's year with the turnover chain where they whipped Notre Dame. But they were just, I don't want to say it was smoke and mirrors, they weren't like this on offense.

They didn't have the caliber of talent they've had that they've been able to acquire through NIL. To me, they are the team to beat in the ACC. I'm not sure that's saying that much, given what Florida State looks like, but I think they're a dangerous team. Have you come back around to like, Clemson, and Clemson can still make the playoff, but it's,

I know the NC State score is absurd. It's also CJ Bailey in for Grayson, you know, who it was like this undisclosed injury that probably at the time was something to do with his head. But I'm like in this weird spot of like, I got the Clemson content where it's like, okay, it's done, it's done. And so, well, based on the standard that he had, it's been done now for a little while,

but like done to the point where you don't think you have to be like ready to play him on a Saturday. Cause I think that's a huge mistake. You'd like Miami that much more than Clemson is I think what I'm hearing from you. I do. Now, Kate Klubnick has ability, and they have good athletes on defense. They really still do.

They have a physical running back who they can kind of lean on. The issue, one of the issues for them when they have dropped off quite a bit, they used to be, were so great at receiver, and then they missed on recruits, and obviously, because Dabo doesn't mess with the portal, that he can't replenish an area that you miss on. And that was the case. Now, they do have some good

young receivers. And like I said, Club Knicks look good. I think what's been interesting is Garrett Riley, who as everybody knows is Lincoln Riley's younger brother, he was really good at TCU the year they went to the national title game and then he was a big hire for Dabo and Really struggled last year. Obviously they didn't look good in the opener against Georgia But since then they've looked better. I mean, they're probably the second best team in the ACC I said they still have a bunch of athletes on defense and like I said club Nick has ability I don't feel like they're quite as good as Miami. I mean, Miami played them last year

and after getting smashed by them the year before, Clemson, I think it was like, okay, we can play with these guys and it wasn't like they were, this is a much better Miami team than the one that Clemson had their hands full with last year. I'm picking Bama just because I couldn't get a Bama game, right. Whether I picked for him or against him last year. And I think going into it with my thoughts on like the Milrow limitations,

it was pretty simple, like a Milrow, Carson Beck rematch of last year, where George probably feeling like, you know, how did we not win a national championship last year? Like, how do we let that happen to us in the SEC title game? I know the Georgia record head to head against BAM. I know the history with this. So everything was telling me I'm fading myself on this one by picking Alabama. Where are you? Man, like my heart wants to say Alabama for a lot of reasons.

I saw them in person. They look really good. I think Milro is even more dangerous with Kalen DeBoer in that system. Love Ryan Williams. He's the 17-year-old phenom receiver who runs like the wind and is a good route runner and the most talented receiver they've had there since Devonte Smith was there. The thing that gives me a little pause here, because I think we all watched Georgia play at Kentucky and they really struggled. Kentucky kind of ran it down their throats. Georgia was fairly limited.

There's definitely a little bit of concern about is there a big difference between home versus away? They're a little banged up on the D line. The part where I'm like, ugh, I get a little bit gun shy of going against Georgia here is this. Last year, Georgia was number one going into this game in the SEC title game. Nobody thought this was a great Alabama team last year. Alabama's old line, which had been much maligned, really kind of took it to Georgia and dominated the trenches.

And that was a great performance by Alabama's O-line, and Georgia got punched in the stomach. And then coming out of that, you heard a lot of people at Georgia taking note of some of the comments that Alabama made of that. On top of that, you also have Kirby Smart has to be looking at this team. They did not look good the last time out against Kentucky. That was a road game, and Kentucky has some good people, good big people in their physical. But I think Kirby Smart's looking at it going, hey, Nick Saban's not there anymore. We're not losing to this guy.

We cannot lose to this guy. And for those reasons, I think you get Georgia's best game. I'm not saying Georgia is going to run the table this year because they got a bunch of other tough games coming up, but this one, I think they respond to being really challenged and I think they beat Alabama. This is where the conference play, and this isn't even specific to the SEC. This is just when you've been around each other a bunch of times, like you look at the Kentucky South Carolina game, it's one of the worst games you'll see from a passing offense all season long at any level and then Kentucky's at home against Georgia was supposed to be game day too, right?

And they ended up going with LSU South Carolina and you go, did I, I was joking about like, I can't imagine what those offensive coaches meetings were like all week in Lexington. And then I left the Georgia game going, well, they must've been amazing meetings. Like they, this is a prideful group. This is a group that responded as terrible. There was one three man rush by South Carolina against seven man protection and they still got to the quarterback. It was just, it was like all

time terrible film and yet they got up for this Georgia game. So then you go, okay, well now is there something wrong with Georgia? Maybe there was nothing wrong with Georgia. Maybe Kentucky had pride and found a way at home. Then it wasn't like you weren't going to be focused on the opponent. I don't know that I'd agree that they ran it ran it, you know, move the ball a ton. I know the total yardage is rushing, but sometimes when you have a team with Georgia or our expectations are through the roof, I mean, they still held Kentucky to 12 points. So like, you know what I mean?

Like what was the real issue? I still think the receiver part of this, like if there's one part that you're going to try to attack with Bama, cause I still love all these interchangeable pieces that I see up in the front, you know, it's Carson Beck just going to find a way to win this game with a receiver group that I think nationally most people would have to check a depth chart again, just because yeah, there's just not the names. Right. They added a transfer from Bandy who's a good young receivers,

big and athletic. You added Colby Young from Miami, who's a big receiver. They, again, the run game, I think is in an interesting place because you had ATN who obviously missed the beginning of the year. He's a transfer. You know, it hasn't felt like, I mean, again, and they lost a really good offensive lineman in the middle, in the offensive line in one of the guards. She's probably gonna be out for, yeah, for probably three weeks or so. I don't know, I still think Beck is a terrific quarterback.

I just think they find a way to win this game. But right now, like, and I think some people look at it and go, okay, it's a road game in the sec against the team. You know, Mark Stoops is a good coach. They're going to be physical. And I felt like it was almost like Georgia felt like they were playing to Kentucky's level. Whereas I think they're going to play to a different level this weekend in Tuscaloosa. Yeah, it makes sense.

You could see it going either way. Um, I'm not going to be shocked by any of it. You saw Michigan in person. They made the switch to orgy, which I think was the first alarming thing. Cause out of camp, you go, wait, he didn't, he didn't win the job and it's Davis Warren and then he gets shut down. And now I think after the USC game, I go, okay, well now I understand why. Then pulling out that game and it, the two stories of it,

the dominant, dominant defense, the adjustment by SC figure. I really like Moss, a quarterback for SC. I think SC is a good football team. I can't believe they lost the game. And then as they were losing it, I can't believe when they were winning, they ended up losing it. Mullings has the biggest play in the second half because Michigan couldn't do anything with the football.

Then when we talk about Michigan, we talk about them to the standard of what they've been the last couple of years. When you look at them in comparison with Ohio State, Oregon, Penn State, and the Big Ten, where are they? I think they're going to get drilled in Columbus at Thanksgiving. I think there's going to be a massive amount of, to me, that's a bad matchup for them right now. I expect Michigan will get better over the course of the year because they lost almost everybody on offense, right? They lost the entire offensive line. They lost a first round quarterback who was much more talented than the guys who were trying to replace them, right? You lost Blake Corum, who's a really good running back. Loveland

is still there. He's a big time tight end, but he's been banged up. Right, didn't play the SC game. Yeah, so they're super limited on that side of the ball. The margin for error is really small. Kaleo Mullings has put the program on his back, right? He was the guy who, until they played at Ohio State two years ago, he was a linebacker. And then they switched him as a short yardage back,

and he gave him something, and he kept getting better and better. And now, he's, to me, way more important to them than the guy who was on the cover of the video game, Donovan Edwards. I know Donovan went off in Columbus a couple of years ago, but Mullings won that game. I mean, they're going to try to be physical,

and they're not taking a ton of chances. And when he just basically bucked and threw the USC tackler off his back and kept going, because I was thinking, how are they gonna move the ball downfield here? Well, that's how, he's just gonna be tougher than anybody USC had. And I'm with you, I really like Miller Moss.

His offensive line is not good. He had people in his face. He made plays and the defense is much improved. If I was a USC fan, I'd be very encouraged by the direction of the program. Now, they have to upgrade in a big way on the D line and on the O line, but Danton Lynn's been a great hire. We know Lincoln's really good with offense and with quarterbacks and I think that showed up. But again, when we had Michigan against Texas Texas the part that was kind of like whoa This looks bad is they had back-to-back NFL defense coordinators who did a terrific job Harbaugh gets Mike McDonald who's now the Seahawks head coach. He gets Jesse Minner who's now, you know back out here

He's the Rams is I'm sorry the Chargers defense quarter. Those guys did terrific back out here, he's the Rams, I'm sorry, the Chargers defense corner. Those guys did terrific. Wink Martindale comes in and it just looked like he didn't realize, oh yeah, I got D linemen that are better than most of the people they're going to be up against. And so some of the stuff they did, it just seemed like they were kind of looked on sound and a little lost. And to credit to Texas, Quinn Ubers lit them up time He did it again and Sark just took him to school this time I felt like it was a much better matchup for them defensively because you had an offensive line that's nowhere near as

good as Texas is and You know, it just felt like they were in their comfort zone They also didn't need to win a shootout like they probably were going to have to do against Texas. So I think Michigan's an eight and four team. I think they can hang with Penn State. I like Penn State's offense under Andy Cotillnicki, but I need to see more because we saw last year, Drew Aller looked really good against everybody else and really bad in the games that were the white knuckle games, you know, where you're going to be gripping the steering wheel.

And those were Ohio State and Michigan. I think he'll be better now, but we'll see. Oregon's got to get way better on the O line. I mean, I was a believer in them coming into the year. So far, their offensive line, with the exception of the left tackle has looked very suspect. How that fits with Dylan Gabriel, I still think they're a playoff team, but coming into the year, I thought they were a dangerous national title contender, not with the way the O-line is looking. They got to get way better if they're going to hang with Ohio State and then try to make some

noise in the playoff. Yeah. Feel better about Oregon's O-line after the Boise game, but you're right. I mean, the start of the season, because I picked him as a national champ. I was trying to go, I just didn't want to pick Ohio state, Georgia, Texas. You know, I don't know. I was trying to do something a little different. Sometimes I just do that. I was like, why, why would there be such a drop off with Gabriel and the O-line the first couple of weeks is alarming.

So there's a little bit of a positive there. I think the positive with Michigan is I completely agree with you because going into that matchup, it wasn't even just that way. How good could have orgy have been if he didn't win the job when everybody thought he was going to win it. And have you noticed some of this defensive stuff that's happening here with Michigan now, maybe it's because again, this really small sample size and they get dumped truck by the number one team in the country when Texas comes in in Ann Arbor, but whatever they had figured out from that point until the

first half of the USC game, like that defense was going to be a little bit get dumped trucked by the number one team in the country when Texas comes in in Ann Arbor, but whatever they had figured out from that point until the first half of the USC game, like that defense was stifling. And it's also, I think another positive too, where the first half of that game, I'm going, this could get kind of weird for Lincoln Riley this week. Really brought in this offensive genius that you can't, can't, we can't do anything on the road against Michigan. And I think the halftime change tackle and some of the schemes and having everybody on the same page was like a, just a nice little reminder of why Lincoln is considered who he is, that they did figure that game out for the

second half. And I think you're right about the defense too. I think USC made some incredible open field tackles in that game that I, I remember going like, Oh, that's surprising. Cause after last year they may have made more field tackles in the game against Michigan than all of last season. So I still think USC is a good team. I would agree. I don't, unless there's some kind of downfield passing threat from Orgy that happens

quickly here. And maybe it will. Cause we just haven't seen him be asked to do any of it. I don't know how you would pick him against Ohio State at this point. A lot would have to improve. Yeah, I don't see it. And Ryan, if we haven't seen any semblance of that yet, I don't think we're going to see it this year. I mean, like that's that is disturbing. You know, the fact that you have it now to his credit, there was one run where he made

where he was like one of my freaks list guys where I was like, oh yeah, that's why he's, you know, like he scooted up the sideline. He's a 235 pound guy. And there he looked really dynamic. They need to see more of that to to take, you know, if you can do something extra in the run game, at least OK, then they're then they're a problem. But if they're just really limited to what they get from the running backs,

man, I don't think they can get near the playoffs, much less do any damage in it. Let's talk a little Big 12 before we kind of open it up to everything else. This conference is as advertised, where we knew that it was deep. I mean, there've been some years in the past where I've looked at Big 12 and be like,

you see how deep that conference is and how competitive it is? But the BYU dismantling a K-State, throw that in the mix. The Kam Rising storyline out of Utah, and they've still found a way to be 4-0. You know, they're still 10th where I think it's like a benefit of the Dow part of that. Iowa State, who's always kind of overlooked, is ranked and still undefeated. And then you have Oklahoma

State that loses to the backup in Utah. So everybody's still alive in this one. But do you have one of those teams that I mean, I think the answer always feels like with rising and now Keithy back that that's the default answer for a lot of us even after the first month. But it's just such a tough thing with rising, even though it feels like this injury wasn't supposed to be the big of a deal. I know. I've said this to some of my colleagues at Fox. I was like, we all hear these reports. Rising is expected to play.

I'm like, I'll believe he's going to play when he takes the first snap, because last year he had all the speculation, everything had we had it last week again. I mean, he's a really good quarterback and especially he's a really good fit in that system. I'm sure he'll be back at some point this year, but it's just one of those things where it's like, okay, what's going on and how is you know, how is Kyle managing it and everything. We know they're really good on defense. We know they'll be able to run the football. They're the most physical team in that league. And he's a terrific coach.

I mean, they are, like you said, I think they're the default team. The most surprising thing for me in the Big 12 so far has been BYU. I've actually watched them a bunch just by, when I've been around for games and watched all the K-State game last week. So Kalani Satake, former Kyle Whittingham protege, super tough guy, he has a big presence to him, like guys play hard for him.

Their defense is really good. I mean, you watched it when they played SMU. SMU, it's not like they don't have any have any athletes and you could do nothing in the red zone they just kept shutting them down. I'm in case state here they are with one of the fastest backfield in the country. You know they got every johnson who can run like the wind he's really good not a great passer yet but still really dangerous it's gotten better though with him because I kind of felt like it was almost too hyped because it was the hair and the speed and all that kind of stuff. And I just always will default like,

I've got to see convert some third and longs man before I'm picking you guys to be in a playoff or something like that. And I, maybe I'm wrong on this, but from what I've seen, I feel like it's gotten a little better. Maybe my expectations were too low. And he's young. I mean, he was the MVP of the bowl game.

He was a true freshman last year. You know, you got Dylan Edwards, which is a good change of pace. Yeah, so you add those guys and yet, you know, BYU stepped up and remember, like that wasn't just a blowout that they took over in late in the second quarter. BYU is like down to their third string running back. Like LJ Martin's a good running back.

He wasn't playing. They have a wild card quarterback. Jake Retzlaff is a J.C. transfer from here in Southern California who can do, you know, has some arm talent and can make some spectacular plays. Yeah, but he's also like, he turns it over. Like, I forgot who they played week two, but their fan base was like, was dry heaving at that point because you're watching the turnovers happen. And if he can take care of the ball, I'm not saying that the holy war game

between BYU and Utah in early November is going to decide, you know, play a big role in the Big 12, but BYU has picked 13th in the conference pre-season. And right now, I mean, for the first month of the season, they've been the story of the Big 12 because the offense has been better despite all the running back injuries and the defense is really good. I would have thought K-State would have been that team and granted, I wouldn't give up on them now just after one loss because I don't think

it's going to be like a 12 and one team coming out of the Big 12. Utah or not, Iowa State or not, BYU or not, I think you will have, my guess is you'll have somebody that's 10 and 3 coming out of the Big 12. There's just too much parity and I don't think anybody's that much better than anybody else. Yeah, that was the SMU game. I mean, they were 12 point dogs in that one. They, they win a tight 18-15 game, but that was- They had like five trips in the red zone and got no touchdowns. You know, it's crazy. That was one of those games where you think,

you know, look, that's kind of the big 12. I mean, Cincinnati could be four and oh if it's not the pit game. Colorado, you know, at one point in that Baylor game. UCF is dangerous. They can run the heck out of the ball. How about us giving some ACC big 12 love? All right, let's close with a couple of different things here. Well,

I'd say maybe all kind of the same conversation. I'm guilty of it. I have a hard time with it. It's the most unknown of any of the sports that we all love because the turnover and even more turnover now. So you kind of default to like who's got a quarterback that I remember from last year that was really good. So we'll just rank them wherever. And then you just get so married to that number to the left of the name of the team. And so I look at somebody like Tennessee where I don't care about the NC State score against Clemson. I'm going to keep saying it all season

long because people will point to the NC State when not meaning anything. Maybe look, maybe they end up being terrible, but Grayson played in that game and they destroyed them. I don't care about the final score against Oklahoma because they were clearly better than Oklahoma. They have a defense that's better than two years ago when you're looking at Tennessee and you're looking at that Bama win. It was so exciting. It was great for Knoxville. I love it. It's also 52-49 and you're wondering, are they going to have enough defense here to really be considered And you're wondering, no, are they going to have enough defense here to really be considered like one of those teams. So when I say this and there's some other, you go anywhere you want with this.

I two weeks ago, it's like, Oh, it's Georgia, it's Texas and it's Ohio state. And those are the clear teams. And then it's everybody else. And you just, I feel the urge to want to push back without necessarily having an answer, where you could just say, why couldn't Tennessee right now actually be better than everybody else in the country? Ole Miss schedule wise, I can't do it, but yet I'm giving Ohio State the benefit

of the doubt with the same weak opponent strength to schedule. So sometimes it feels completely unfair with how long the list will go of what real contenders are. I guess I'm asking for somebody like you that's really plugged into it. Do you have feelings about teams rankings-wise? I think that's just totally wrong. Tennessee actually today could be the best team in the country. They could be, because their defense is so much better. I would say you may have to go back to the John Henderson days of that era to find a defense that looked this good. Tim Banks has got them playing really well.

Pierce was the guy. He's an edge rusher. I want to say he came in at like 208 pounds, and now he's maybe up to 240 something, can run like Chop Robinson or Dallas Turner. But he hasn't been, I'm not saying he's not getting attention, it's all the other guys who are coming at you in waves. And I think they're really good at all three levels. And this is a team, by the way, that lost their leading tackler now as a linebacker

place for Memphis. One of their most talented edge guys now is one of the leading, you know, pass rushers at Miami in the country. And so it's not like they haven't lost really good players. They just, I think they were so deep and so primed to break through. We're all kind of intrigued by Nico. You know, he's a, he played and looked good in the bowl game last year. He hasn't even been like crazy yet though. He hasn't.

He had, yeah, Ryan, last week he played a good defense. Oklahoma, they're different now than they used to be. They're not good on offense and they're good on defense. And he got, he had two fumbles and you know, I, one of my, it's hard to say it was his fault because it was just, you know, you had a, their left tackle wasn't playing. It was the backup came in and got beat. I thought it could have been a little quicker on that play in particular. Like I was even talking with Stanford Steve about, cause like I was even during,

I'm sorry I interrupted, but like he's so calm. He's so smooth. I think we did this with liner just 48 hours ago, so I'm not going to do it all over again. But, um, yeah. To the point is it's like, I'm not going to sit here and spend any more time in this fumble. I shouldn't have interrupted you. It's just that With all the hype and the highs besides like he I can't wait like that's actually going to happen a couple times Games this year and they haven't even needed it and they look this good. Yeah, they also went into

Baton Rouge to get a big-time running back. I mean LSU hasn't had like an elite elite running back in a minute and back. I mean, LSU hasn't had like an elite, elite running back in a minute. And Tennessee's got one and he came from right in like, Dutch town there. So like, they've had a lot of things. Obviously, Nico was the huge money recruit in the early stages of NIL. And we think he's just going to keep getting better and better. It's a good system offensively. Man, it's a good time to be a Tennessee fan. And I would circle back to your premise a minute ago, why are we buying, why are people the more, you know, kind of positioned to buy Ohio State and not give the benefit of the doubt to Ole Miss and maybe Tennessee? I just think it's like, we've seen Ryan Day be in the playoff. Also, you can get away with not having your A game in the Big Ten.

It's hard, you know, like, it's not like tennis, like, George is the team that has the worst schedule of the superpowers right now in the SEC. But still, like, if, and Ole Miss hasn't really played anybody, but this is definitely Lane's best team there. I mean, they have, they upgraded the program. Right. Right. Yeah. So we'll see, right. We'll see. I mean, the last time Lane had big expectations on one of his teams was when he was out here at USC. They were preseason number one and you know, things imploded. I think Lane's a different coach now than he was,

whatever that was 10 years ago. And I also think, um, I think he's probably got a deeper roster now than he had coming out of that team, coming out of the sanctions and whatever it looked like. Of the two of them, I have more confidence right now in Tennessee, but it's kind of cheating to say that because we've seen, I feel like we've seen more from Tennessee so far. I do think Tennessee's defense looks better than Ole Miss's, but Jackson Darts further along in his career than, than, uh, than Niko. I think the receiving core might be, might be better.

Um, I, you know, I can't wait to watch what happens in the SEC this year. I can't wait to watch you in studio this weekend. That's what I'm really excited about. By the way, thank you. You can interrupt me anytime if we're going to get a Stanford Steve reference. He's everybody's like favorite mascot at this point. All right, but mascot? I don't know.

Coaches love that guy. Everybody loves it. Everybody loves that guy. Chip Kelly was our neighbor here. And then I'd be like- He's come around on Stanford Steve. He loves Stanford Steve. He likes him more than he likes me.

He was like one night I was like, what's going on? And then Steve was like, oh, I ended up going out with Chip. I'm like, down the street? I was like, wow. He doesn't even need Chip to, like Stanford Steve doesn't even need Chip to, didn't even need him to be at 900 Club. Stanford Steve, like there's basically norm

after a couple of weeks. And it was like, oh yeah, he's coming in. And it was, you know, he's just. There's a reason, because he was on somebody's tab that you're looking at right now. And probably the greatest achievement of my career in Los Angeles has been getting Stanford Steve a satellite membership at 900 Club

through Dave, which then meant really, it was like status thing for Stanford Steve, but it was actually a financial thing for me. So now he's not on my tab anymore because I got the, I got the invoice that month when he and chip were like doing work together or something. I don't even know what was going on. I got the invoice that that month and I went, what the fuck happened here? And I was like, Oh, Steve was here.

Of all the people you and I, neither one of us now works in Bristol or at ESPN. Of all the people that I used to work with there, and there's plenty of people I still really like and still talk to. I think Stanford Steve might be my favorite current ESPNer. There's just like, I don't know. How's Zack Lowe gone? I didn't know Zack Lowe, but Stanford Steve, we went out drinking, where did I see him?

It was like week, oh, he might've been at Michigan for Michigan, Texas, that's what it was. And we ended up meeting up at a bar. He's just, I don't know, he's the best. I'm sorry he was gonna just wear your tab out there. But we watch him on TV. He comes on after Monday Night Football. So Stanford Steve has been in the house.

So my kid knows who Stanford Steve is. He points at the screen. And he has this kind of, can I curse on this? Yes? Yeah. He has this shitty grin all the time where he's there. And it's just like it's fairly disarming or whatever. And I can't imagine what his professors at Stanford are probably thinking,

wow, that guy's a TV star. Who would have thought? Or whatever. I just like, I could never, this is not a negative, but when I first met him, when we were in Bristol, he would come to the seminar and I couldn't believe he went to Stanford. Right. I thought that was like the running joke, you know, um, cause he, but, is he spelling Stanford wrong? What is he Samford Steve? I mean, it was like, I just didn't know, you know, but like,

he's the best. No, man, it's, uh, and he works really hard at it. He's constantly watching. He'll send me clips of all these cutups and stuff. So I'm just really happy for him to, to go from, like, if you're a radio production assistant, you don't end up on TV with college game day. And he did it and it's awesome. So, yeah, cause he's authentic and I think it comes through, right? That's there's nothing fake about it. So no, you always saw like even like when I was traveling for radio and TV, like Herb street Fowler, they would come up and like, Hey, what are you seeing?

You know, like there was just a ton of respect, uh, even if he wasn't on the cover of any video games, just the fact that he played at Stanford. So we're always, we're always rooting for him. Thanks, man. We'll see you soon. All right. Good seeing you.

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The future is clear. It's happening now at BHP, a future resources company. To discover how, visit bhp.com slash better future. You've known them for a while. If you're an NBA fan, Gordon Hayward has now moved into even potentially more challenging industry and that is, uh, his production company. They've got a new movie that comes out today. That'll be in theaters tonight. Notice to quit.

Um, and that is from his production company, whiskey Creek, uh, who he partnered with a Simonacker on that one. So Gordon joins us now, man, what's going on? Yeah, thanks for having me. Just excited to get this movie out there. We have spent a long road making this movie, but can't believe that the day that everyone gets a chance to see it's finally here.

I have a lot of questions about that. I want some NBA stuff as well, but I'm obviously really interested in this part of the industry. When you start to learn a little bit about it, you do kind of wonder how anything ever gets made. For you, what was the most educational part of this process? Well, the whole thing has been educational.

I didn't go to school for making movies or anything like that. Distribution, this whole thing has been a big learning process. I guess I didn't, you know, I knew it was difficult to make movies. I didn't realize how long it takes to make movies. You know, we started filming this thing in September of 21. And here we are 2024, September 2024, and it's just now coming out. So there was a lot to do with the, because it was kind of a low budget film and we did it the whole thing ourselves,

like filming lasted for about a year, but then you got post-production for a whole year. I mean, that's the part where it seems like it just takes forever and then the distribution, but it certainly has been a learning process. I'm still learning as we go here. So what motivated you for the, I know when guys get done with their career,

they have all sorts of different interests, but there had to have been something, whether it was a show or a movie when you were younger, where you started thinking about the process of this and if it was even viable for you after playing, right? Was there a moment that you can think of? Yeah, well, I don't know if there was a moment when I was younger that I thought about ever making movies.

I certainly really enjoyed movies growing up. I would always watch them with family and, you know, we're going to family video and arguing for 30 minutes on which movie we want to watch and trying to pick it out. But and then, of course, in the NBA, you know, there's some we have so much time. So you're watching movies on the road and on the plane and all that. But the moment, I guess, when I got heard in Boston, that's when I met my partner and he's Simon Hacker, who wrote and directed our movie. And he actually did the documentary of my comeback when I got heard in Boston. So we spent a lot of

time together then. And we really just were talking movies and, you know, could tell he had a passion for it. And we decided we wanted to, uh, start a, start a production company, which is whiskey Creek and, uh, you know, then it was one of those things where I was like, all right, well, let's, let's make a movie. And we kind of, uh, decided to shoot our shot on it, uh, pun intended. And then it just went from there. So when I watched it last night, I could tell it was, it was personal. And I, there's before I jumped to that, no, the industry, I could tell it was personal. And there's, before I jump to that,

the industry, I read this book about it where basically it was like almost like basketball in a way where you had all these really brilliant Ivy Leaguers coming in with statistical models and it doesn't just have to be Ivy League, but you get the point, is you had like different structures and that was kind of carry over from baseball. And there's also the belief that like movie studios are going,

why are we buying up all of these scripts, but only making this small percentage of them? Like I have writer friends. Years and years ago, I'd be like, how does it work? And it'd be like, wow, I've got a couple of really good credits, a couple of things worked. And so now I have like a development deal. And so I'll sell maybe a script every now and then for pretty good money, knowing it's never going to be made. And I'll be like, so after it's not made, then what happens? It'd be like, then I'll just sell another script.

And so it seems like, yeah, and based on stuff I've read, not so much from all the conversations I've had, because I think we even had the guy on to talk about this years ago was that just studios started saying, let's spend more on less. So when I watched the movie, it just reminded me of the kind of movies that I loved when I was younger. These really straightforward kind of indie film, you know, this is about family. It's about a challenging dynamic and all this kind of stuff. And so when you're putting this together, was there concern of like, we're doing

something that seems like the industry's going away from? Um, I mean, it's always concerned when you're making a movie of whether or not Was there concern of like, we're doing something that seems like the industry's going away from? I mean, it's always concerned when you're making a movie of whether or not it's ever gonna get picked up. You know, I think it was something where after, you know, Simon and I talked about and he showed me the script and I read the script, I certainly connected with it because it does. It relates to a lot of people.

It's about family, it's about finding work-life balance, which as somebody in the NBA, I know all about. I mean, I'm gone all the time until I've got four kids and a wife and trying to figure out that whole struggle. And I think it was the way that we did it is kind of groundbreaking because we distributed ourselves. And as you mentioned, the industry is changing. It's always changing changing but it's certainly has changed even throughout the time that we started making the movie to where we are now and so I mean it was just something where I think that's actually what I'm also proud about is how we've gone about doing it and the fact that we're a small indie movie but we're out

in theaters and you know people are because of COVID not going to theaters but I think they're they might be making a little bit of a comeback here. I think people still like going and getting out to the theaters and it's kind of an event. It's a date. It's, it's, it's something to go do. And, uh, so I, you know, I hope people will go to the theaters and watch the movie. Like I said, it connects, it just connects with a lot of people. And certainly if you're a father or, or, or, or a daughter or, you know, you or you have a connection in that way, you're going to love the movie too.

It does feel really personal, which I was starting to say before I asked the indie part of it. Knowing Simon spending that much time with him, clearly you guys hit it off and you started game planning this a little bit. But did he describe, hey, this is how I want to do it? Did he already have the script? Did he give you an idea of like the inspiration behind it and the creative process of this? Yeah.

I mean, Simon, I mean that he's a creative genius now and I could tell that right away. I mean, he's, he's a, he's a different type of guy, um, super high energy, but, but one of those just, um, you know, obsessive, like when he gets his mind fit to something, he's going to do it and it's not going to stop it for anything. He's been in New York for a decade now and he's been in the industry kind of working and grinding and you know, so a lot of, and I know he's talked about this, we're actually supposed to go do a lot of Q&A's today, and so I don't necessarily want to speak for him, but even doing some of his Q&A's with him, you know, he said that he sees a little bit of Andy in himself, just that persistence.

Andy is our main character in the, in the show. And, you know, he sees his persistence and hard work and also being in, living in New York for that long, people that live in New York, understand the, the apartment game and something that I didn't know about, but they have been from Indiana, but the apartment game and being with these brokers and he's, you know, he said he's changed apartments so many, dozens of times over the last 10 to 12 years. And so he kind of went through that and saw, you know, these brokers and their, their kind of game and how they work. And so all of that is certainly, uh, personal to him for sure.

When I first moved to Boston, I, I used a broker like this and it brought back a lot of memories because it was just disaster after disaster. They finally like showed me one that was okay, but I also had no money. So I don't know that I, my window was all that great for opportunity for least. But like the last one was the best. He goes, I saved this one for, I like to build you a better one. I was like, so we looked at three dumps to build up. Like that was all just part of the game.

And now this one is one I might actually even want to live in. He's like, yep, that's the way we do. And I was like, all right. That's cool. That's why I had that people, but that's what I didn't realize. That's how it is. But that is, I mean, that's how it is. People are just out there grinding and trying to, trying to make ends meet. How tough was it for you to retire? Uh, it was really tough. I mean, as an athlete, I'm sure you've talked to so many of us. I don't know if there's a... There might be some, for some athletes, a perfect time to retire,

but I think for a lot of us, there's not necessarily a perfect time and certainly it's bittersweet. And I feel like I still could have played for a couple of years, and certainly is bittersweet. And I feel like I still could have played for a couple of years, you know, depending on the situation and all that. But I think it was, it was just time. And I was, I'm completely at peace with how my career went and how everything unfolded.

And my family was at peace with it as well. I think my kids wanted me to play more. They loved going to the games, not to watch the games, but to like be around the atmosphere and certainly see the dancers and the cheerleaders and all that. So they're going to play more. They love going to the games, not to watch the games, but to like be around the atmosphere and certainly see the dancers and the cheerleaders and all that. So they're going to miss that. But I told him we can, we can still go do that. Um, but I mean, yeah, I think it hasn't been too different so far because it's still the off season. I know that everything's kind of getting going right now. And I think in November and December,

I'll probably feel a little differently and certainly miss it. But it's kind of just been a normal off season. And certainly with, with the movie here, um, it's kind of helped bridge the gap for a month for me to get jump right into something else. How many, I imagine people still wanted you to play, right? Like, was there a moment that felt close? Like, okay, maybe I just do this and like do a, do a two year deal or something. Yeah. I mean, there was a bunch of offers

and places I could have gone and, you know, that's where you're sitting down, like, way, trying to weigh it in your mind, like, trying to figure out if it's going to work. And it's something that I, you know, wanted to go do. And I think ultimately it's like, I wasn't like a hundred percent into it. And I think if you're not going to be a 100%

into whatever idea it's, it's hard, it's hard to justify like doing it in my mind. Like when I, when I going into each season, you're like, you're ready to go and you're ready to put it, give it your all. And, uh, you know, I didn't feel that. So I have, I don't know if this is a question or not. I just, I need to say it. I need to say it to you.

So I worked at ESPN for a long time, as you know. Okay. And when you came back after you were hurt, uh, look, I grew up in New England. So I kind of started as a Celtics fan, but like once I, once I was in the business, it just, it wasn't the same, right? Like you win or you lose. I kind of felt the same way, which I kind of miss. I kind of miss it, but it's, it's definitely part of the resume for me.

And, you know, everybody was so excited for you to come back and you started 18 games in 18, 19, and that team was a weird team. Um, you can, you can, you can go wherever you want, but like the, the lead up to this is that I found it to be incredibly unenjoyable. I just didn't like what the makeup of that team was. There was a storyline and the reason I bring up those 18 starts is because of this. Because I do work in the media, there are times where I'll get information and I'll

think, is that worth sharing? One of the talking points, I remember Stephen a was on first date talking about it and he was like when Brad Stevens Let his guy Gordon Hayward like it is starting spot back that Like ruined the team and I thought that doesn't make any sense. Like I'm at home watching it going Yeah, if you're Gordon Hayward with your resume and you're healthy you get your starting spot back That's just the way the league works. And it still was only 18 games. And here we were into March

and the team was generally disappointing. And it felt like other players were saying that, like I go, that makes me think that players are saying to Stephen A that, you know, that's kind of when the locker room was lost. And on top of that, I thought, well, if you're saying that that run of you starting games disrupted the season, that means this is the softest mentalist, like softest mental team ever.

I don't know how much of that made its way back to you, but I remember being, and I don't even know you. So it wasn't like I was mad because we're friends. I was mad at the structure of that topic, knowing that you probably had teammates that were saying, cause he had to have been getting it from someone to share it. So the floor is yours, because I don't have a question. Yeah, that was a lot.

That was a lot to unpack there. It was way too much. Yeah. No, I mean, that season was definitely the hardest season of my career, easily. And I went and I talked on PG's podcast a little bit about it, but it was something where, like,

obviously changed the course of the rest of my career being injured, but I think also really helped the young guys that were there. I mean, there is nothing better, in my opinion, than being able to play through mistakes, gain experiences, and, you know, me getting hurt certainly helped JT and JB develop faster. Now, they would have developed anyways. I don't know if anyone thought they're going to be as good as they were going to be back then, like when they were drafted. It was just something that it just helped them do it faster. They went to the Eastern Conference Finals that year and Kyrie got hurt too.

So also, Terry was here as able to develop as a starter. And so going into that next season, there was just so many people are on our team were, first off the expectations were ridiculous because on paper we were the best team in the league by far, like talent wise, but it was something that it's, we all had our own individual agendas. You know, the young guys are trying to prove that they're all stars.

I'm trying to prove that the season before I got injured, I was all-star and felt like I was one of the better wings in the league. Like, so I'm trying to prove I'm trying to get back there. Kyrie got hurt, so he's trying to prove it's his team. You know, we also had Marcus Smart. Terry's trying to prove he's a starter. Marcus Smart trying to prove he's a starter, all defense. Marcus Morris, Al Horford. I mean, we probably had, we probably had seven or eight guys that had career highs of 40 all on the same team, which is pretty unheard of. And, you know, it's, and then you, then you have the talking points of like, I shouldn't be getting these opportunities. And I'm sitting there thinking to myself, like, I'm not getting any opportunities compared to what

I was getting in Utah. So how is everyone even complaining like we're getting the ball too much. And I'm like, it was like my lowest, one of my lowest usage rate seasons of my career. So I'm sitting there like, I'm not even getting the ball to do anything. How is everyone complaining? I'm getting the ball too much. And you know, I'm trying to come back from a major injury too. So it was, and it was just, it was a chaotic season is disappointing how the whole thing went. It was just, it was a chaotic season, it's disappointing how the whole thing went. That, I think it just shows like, you gotta have a team that meshes together well.

That it's not all about just the talent that you have and who's on the roster and all this stuff. Like, you gotta have a team that blends well together and for whatever reason, you know, that year we couldn't make it work. I mean, I think we were just two similar positions and like I said, guys are trying to do prove themselves more than play, you know, with each other. Uh, but certainly they've, they figured it out now.

And I couldn't be happier that the Celtics won. I mean, I still, you know, I have no ill will toward anybody and have great relationships still with, with guys there. So, you know, happy for Brad and Joe and JT and on Al and JB and the guys that I played with, you know, it's, it's great for the Celtics. Yeah. That was after I saw the rant, because it was late in the year, I had to go look at it again, because he didn't even start too many games. And then it was 18 and you're right. It's the lowest usage rate of your career, other than your rookie year. And then, you know, the last year in the city.

Well, that was why it was like the narrative and the storyline just didn't even make sense. And it was also, you know, it was, it was the whole thing was just, it was set to fail. I mean, it was just a lot. And I, and, and, and I think Brad too, didn't know what to do, you know, as a coach, because, you know, I basically joined the Celtics in large part because of Brad and because we had such a great history and, you know, I think he's an amazing coach. And, um, but then he's got all these, you try navigating all these different storylines as a coach, like what are you supposed to do? You know, you're trying to figure out what's best for your team. And so it was, it was tough, certainly tough, hard, definitely the hardest season of my career.

Okay. So there's another thing from that and I, I promise I'll jump around here cause I don't want to just do Celtics, but I always thought it was interesting like hearing kind of the vibe on the team and that like Kyrie who, you know, I talked about Derrick Rose in the open of the show today and I go, there's just certain basketball players that other basketball players are so enamored with because they see some of the stuff that they do that is so special that it's like, what do you think of Kyrie's career? There's, there's this level of reverence for him, like a Derrick Rose, you know, of Russell Westbrook, like just like, how do you really think of Kyrie's career? There's this level of reverence for him, like a Derek Rose, you know, Russell Westbrook,

like just like, how do these guys do this against other NBA players? And so I think there's, it always feels like Kyrie has like more fans in the NBA than, you know, some of us, and I'll put myself in that group because of the up and down parts of his career, like, as opposed to the media. But in the beginning, like he wasn't an older player, but it felt like maybe he was trying to like act like this old grizzled vet to like Jaylen Brown and Tatum and it felt like Jaylen Brown like pushed back on it a little bit, but now it feels like like Jaylen loves Kyrie and it's come full circle. What is that dynamic like and maybe helping us better understand

two personalities like that? You mean like the dynamic between Kyrie and the younger guys or what? Because it felt like specific to Jaylen and maybe I'm asking you too much to be like, what do you want me to do? Project where their heads were at five years ago, six years ago where they're at now. But it felt like a full circle moment. And maybe it's just being young and then being in the league a little bit more. But I always thought it was kind of funny that Jaylen Brown's like, I don't need this.

And then it's very clear that he's a massive Kyrie fan now. So I don't know if there's a perfect answer in there, but I just thought it was interesting. Yeah, I mean, I think it kind of goes back to what I was just talking about with our own individual agendas. I mean, and first and foremost, I mean, let me say I think the reason why a lot of NBA guys are enamored by Kyrie is just his talent is unreal. I mean, he is definitely the most talented player that I've played with. You know, he does things on the court where you're just like,

how the hell did he just do that? And a lot of times I didn't even ever. It's not like I saw him practicing like his finishes and all this stuff. Like he just he he's got this natural ability, especially in big moments where he just pulls out things. And you're just like, did he just did he just like what you're like, trying to figure out what he did? And I think that's what a lot of NBA NBA guys respect is his skill.

It's just a skill level and he's, he can do anything on the court that you want him to do. I think as far as your question goes, I mean, I think it goes back to like, you know, Jaylin Jaylin and Jason are, you know, obviously at the top of the league right now, but back then they're trying to, you know, they want to get there and they're trying to prove that they can get there. And you know, so I think Kyrie's kind of was at that level back then. And then, so he's trying to say like, you know, look, like it's my team. And that's why there were just so many different narratives that were going on.

Was it just easier in Utah? It was definitely, we didn't have that in Utah. We definitely did not have that when I was in Utah for sure. And it was, it was completely different. It'd be crazy to, you know, you said like, hey, moving forward or whatever, and maybe you're a better person than I am, but do you ever think of,

did you ever allow yourself to go? What if I just never left Utah? I mean, I certainly have thought about it. Sure. It's definitely crossed my mind. allow yourself to go. What if I just never left Utah? I mean, I certainly have thought about it. I mean, it's, it's definitely crossed my mind. It's just, you, you never, it's hard to play that game. You know what I mean? The what if game is so tough to play. I mean, it's like, it's totally pointless, but it's completely pointless.

Absolutely. It's completely pointless. I mean, it's, it, it crosses my mind a lot because like I said, that my, my whole career changed when I got injured. I mean, and I was relatively healthy, like really healthy throughout my first seven years in the NBA. Then I have the major injury in Boston and then it's like every year, it's like some freak injury it seems like. Every year something goes wrong.

I break something, I grade three ankle sprain, like all this different stuff and it's probably a lot stems from that main injury and your body compensating and all that. But it's hard not to think like, well, what would have happened to my career if I wouldn't have gotten injured? And I think I was just proud of, I was able to get back to, in my mind, I felt like I was able to get back to the player that I was. I mean, when I went to Charlotte, I, that was,

and that was part of the reason I think I said when I left, like I felt like I wanted to still maximize who I was as a player and in Boston, it wasn't going to be like that because we just had too much talent. But going back, I felt like I saw it some of my best games as a Charlotte Hornet. So for me, like I, I felt like I kind of got back to where I was. And that was another, like I was at peace with where I, where I ended up as a player and everything, but certainly you can play that what if game forever. You know, I might be, I might be fishing for a lamello answer here,

but if you look over your career, who's your favorite young guy that you played with favorite young guy. Cause now if you don't say lamello, then maybe that caused you a problem. So I don't know if you can pass on this one if you want to, cause you just favorite would be a loose term. I mean, it's, I don't know if I have a favorite of I've enjoyed. I've been lucky to have great teammates everywhere I've been. Um, which I think is, is not, you, everyone can't say the same thing. Um,

I really enjoyed, uh, JT, Jason, when I was in Boston, we sat next to each other on the plane. And so we were able to have conversations about just life outside of basketball, just everyday things. And that was a lot of fun to get to know him because I was, you know, I didn't really, he was, I think, what 18 or 19, whenever I first joined.

And, you know, he's a young wing and obviously all this potential, so much potential, but a young, at that point in time I had two kids I mean I was way older and he's probably looking at me like I'm just this this guy's so old but just getting a chance to know him and sit next to him and and just kind of shoot shit you know it was was a lot of fun so so old you're like 28 right but you know but I remember I came in at 20 and there were people that are 30 and you're looking at them like, damn, this dude is ancient. Like he's a dad.

Like, you know what I mean? Cause you're just, you're just a kid then. And so, and here I am at 34 acting like I'm old. I'm not old. Like. No, this guy's talking about a 401k. What the hell is that? So, all right.

I think, I think the easy answer, the easy question would be like, okay, so you just spend a run with Oklahoma city and this is also a really young team and they've got like big time aspirations already. I mean, who knows? A couple of shots here or there against Dallas, who knows maybe they're in the NBA finals, right? How would you describe the Thunder, not experience,

because I know why it's different, but maybe the young guys describe the Thunder, not experience, because I know why it's different, but maybe the young guys with the Thunder as opposed to those early years with Boston, is there a difference that you can think of that is worth talking about? I would say probably the biggest difference is they have a clear cut number one guy, Shea. Whereas in Boston, I don't think that was established initially.

You know, so I think there was, and that's why they all, like JT and JB had all this, this back and forth in the media and all this. I think one was trying to outshine the other. And now I think they're probably good with the whole thing. But in Oklahoma City, this, like Shea plays one position, Jaylen Williams plays another, Chet plays another. Like it's way easier, I think, to develop like that, where you're almost not as much competing with each other.

But certainly similarities with the two and just the talent level that, you know, OK, OK, see, you should have another good, make another good run this year. I think they picked up some good pieces, you know, and part Okay. See, you should have another good, make another good run this year. They, I think they picked up some good pieces. Um, you know, and part of it's just staying healthy. You gotta, you gotta be healthy. But I mean, we were right there. Yeah. There was multiple shots that could have gone down where okay. See is playing Minnesota in the Western conference finals. Yeah. I mean, PJ Washington doesn't turn into Steve Kerr. Um, that's right. I was joking with PJ. I'm like, where was that in Charlotte?

Or where was that in the NBA finals, man? Look, it was, uh, it was a lot of fun to see you at Butler and then just tear it up with Utah and you know, I know the play of that night, you know, it's kind of like this defining equator of your career, man. But I'm really happy for you to be able to walk away now and then, you know, to get everything going with Whiskey Creek again, notice to quit out tonight in theaters nationwide. And you're one of the NBA guys

that started a production company that's actually making stuff. Right, right. I'll see announcements every now and then I'll be like that dude, is he on a two-way? Well that's the other thing is a lot of you know a lot of sports guys make production companies but then it's all like sports movies and you get like pigeonholed into sports movies. This movie has nothing to do with sports. It's just a great you know it's a feel-good story, like you said, about family and the grid of

New York City. So thanks for having me on, man. Everyone's got to check out the movie, notice to quit. It'll be, you know, around the country. Yeah, sounds good, man. Thanks so much for the time today. Thank you. See ya. Prime Big Deal Days is coming October 8th and 9th with exclusive savings just for Prime members. Involuntary deal squeals can happen, like the deal on new running shoes squeal, the deal on a new blender squeal, or the infamous deal on a new massager squeal. Save big on electronics, fashion, and more this Prime Big Deal Days, October 8th and

9th. The Alliance continues. Recap of last week. Unfortunately, Ryan, you were the only one wrong. We had a three-in-one week, and USC did let you down there against Michigan. So, you know, overall records fine. But so far you and Kyle, they want to be the only ones wrong, but I think your record is still good. What does it become a heater for me? How many in a row before it's a heater? Well, you're on the three straight. I've three is I'm not getting,

you're like form. Yeah. I don't know that you're on fire here. Um, I'm just one. I just wanted to keep tabs on it. You're also I mean you're three and one everybody else is two and two It's not like you're you know, I'm just I try to dish it. That's all right. Let's go one week You could be back just in the lead. They're right everybody else. Let's do it clearly. Let's go your t-box Kyle Yeah, go ahead Kyle confident Kyle Through this praying on my downfall Okay, so we just had our through this prank on my downfall. Okay, so we just had our ACC preview

banked on one shiny podcast. I'm all jazzed up for Wake Forest. They have not beaten the spread through three games, but they are, they're home for Louisiana and I'm taking them just Moneyline minus 162. Okay, ACC Kyle. I'm gonna go with Bama just because I wanted to pick Georgia, but we're going to all spread on this one to keep it at what plus 400.

So it opened, uh, is the spread that you're getting there. No, no, I meant on the payout of the four legs. So it was plus two and a half at the open. It's down to plus one and a half for Bama. So we'll take it at plus four and a half. All right. We're gone. Yeah, I'm going UNLV plus three and a half. All right, we're gone. Yeah, I'm going you know the

Three and a half lost their quarterback line didn't really move So we're taking the alt spread getting that up to plus three and a half minus they love their backup Which I think is the most like under reported part of this entire story. So good good job I like your research on that one. Well, thank you. Yeah, what's up work on I'm gonna go to Michigan I'm gonna go all spread minus six and a half I think they win by touchdown versus Minnesota, Minnesota I don't know if they're gonna be able to score that much miss against defense is awesome Michigan's offense scares me a little bit But the defense is incredible. So I mean it I don't do to this Minnesota getting the double digits I don't I don't know but I like Michigan to win by touchdown. So those

Win that I'm a little nervous about that, but they're at home. It's an Ann Arbor. So like Alright, so we got mission Michigan minus six and a half, UNLV plus three and a half, Wake Forest Moneyline, and Bama plus four and a half. I guess it's a plus 456, boys. Let's go. Okay, there you go. Peter watch.

And before we let you go, the final portion of this part of the program, we will update you on couch research money. Last week, a winning week, where the informed number came out a win, Minnesota plus two and a half, he won that one outright. Fading the public, Rams plus six and a half, that one. And I went with my beloved Bears. That was just too emotional for me.

I took the loss on that one. I have not picked a winner yet. So couch coming in last. We're hoping to come in second out of this one. So what are the plays? Fading the public money. We will look at the largest amount of action and that is as of this one. So what are the plays? Fading the public money. We will look at the largest amount of action. And that is as of right now,

a toss up between the saints at Atlanta. Thanks for the Falcon. Green Bay on Fanduil right now is minus three at home against the Vikings. The Vikings have 84% of the bets. So we are going to give out the public, Green Bay minus three. That number has to be because love is playing. I'm trying to look it up the latest this morning. They must know. The inform number, the Colts opened as a favorite.

They are now a dog at home against Pittsburgh. So the inform number is telling us the Colts plus two and a half. And then finally, the couch part. I don't like this pick, but I'm doing it. I normally wouldn't want to lay a touchdown here, but the Chiefs minus seven, if you look at the Chargers injury report, it is not great. Limited practice, not practicing whatsoever. You get the Herbert ankle issue. I would maybe rather grab the seven here, but I wouldn't, not because I'm scared of the chiefs,

I'm scared that the chiefs haven't really put it together yet. And that's my research from the couch hunch. So those are your picks. is prepaid in advance. It becomes a gift from you to your family later, because no one should have to plan for a loss while they're experiencing one. Paying in advance protects your loved ones and gives you the peace of mind you deserve. Let us help you plan every detail

with professionalism and compassion. We are your local Dignity Memorial provider. Find us at DignityMemorial.ca You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari. 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you can possibly imagine. And best of all kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you could possibly imagine. And best of all kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. Little life advice to close out the week.

What is up to Kyle? What's up to Steve? Kyle, you look good today. Again, just had a good week. Sounds surprised. Wow. The again, it was like a... Back to back days, Kyle looks good.

Wow. Thanks. You're working out. Thinking of working out. Yeah, I got a little weight bench over there. Um, I noticed. Did you see it? I didn't see the bench. I saw you. Oh yeah. Just took the laundry basket off it this morning and uh, got some 35s. I think I got to get some lower ones too. Cause I think, you know, as you know, it's more important to do it correctly than do more weight. So I might be expanding the old weight rack over here. Yeah let me know. I got some rusted stuff. As soon as I moved to a different place, I'm not complaining about where I live, but some of the gym

equipment very quickly started to rust. That ocean air. I was like what is going on here? Yeah, but it wasn't like I moved like 40 feet across the street. So what's the deal? You're just like benching in your office guest bedroom. I wasn't done. Oh, sorry. I'm more interested. I'm done.

Go ahead. Yeah, that's pretty much the deal. I was like, you know, why not if it's here, you know, the whole trip to the gym, walking and all that stuff, Gold's and you know, like my membership's still on pause. I can unpause it without new fees, but I was just like, you know what? You do your little morning lap,

it's like three and a half miles, you come back, do a little of that. So just seemed more realistic for me to actually do it. Nice. Okay. I got a bench for you. If you don't like that one, let me know. Don't love this one.

Was an Amazon, uh, which one's the cheapest one that, you know, no, I got a nice one for you. I tried to sell it on Craigslist and people were just like, that wasn't fun. That wasn't a fun experience. And then I just started getting petty about it. I was like, are you serious? Yeah. Like 15 bucks this way or that way. And I would just tell those people, no, I'm like, this is the price. This is the listing. It's this thing is in great condition. And this is like,

I'm hooking you up at this price. It's like, no, can't, can't possibly. Some guy was giving me some song and dance about like, I was like, dude, I want your to life story for 15 bucks off of the price. It's his third. And I just went, all right, I'm out on the whole thing. So we got an extra bench over here for you, Kyle, with your name on it, Incline and everything.

No rust, no rust on this. Okay, let's get to some emails here. Some dudes bummed out about girls. All right, I love the show. Shout out to Kyle for always keeping it real and balancing Saruti being a white knight. Saruti is dude. What the hell? I know. We may have to do like a Saruti pride episode. I don't know. I'm good. Pride. It was actually a very funny story. My sister, she's like an entrepreneur

and she's like looking for trademark stuff and she didn't really know the Saruti story and she like typed into Google, seeing if it was trademarked. And she found all of the Rossello, whatever Reddit stuff of like, you know, how people just think that that's my name. And she started doing deep dive and she's like,

wait, people don't like you. I was like, yeah, there's a good contingent of people that think I'm kind of like this pretentious loser idiot. So yeah, my family accidentally stumbled upon that, which is a bummer, yeah. My dad does that too. He's like, are you looking? I mean, people got some really nasty stuff to say.

And I was just like, I really never thought I would get that from this angle, dad, but I'm glad you know all that stuff. And then every once in a while he'd be like, what do you do again? It's like, so you know the bad stuff. You don't know exactly what's going on, but you are, you are privy. I don't think he's got me on Google alerts, but. Yeah, that's always a tough, tough deal in the beginning for the family.

It's, it's, you know, I had to talk to a couple people in my family, like, I don't, you don't need to forward this stuff to me. And he's like, no man, they really got some stuff to say. I was like, yeah. I was like, I don't know why you're gonna read it, but it's like almost so tempting for someone that, and it's like people would spend time writing about my kid or whatever.

And see, my sister's one of the other guys see my sister's just hard it's just my sisters just started they just started sending me screenshots of the funniest insults and that was going through the family group chat so that was that was that was a good couple hours but yeah I got two younger sisters they're not afraid to let me have a little bit which is fine I'm it doesn't matter I don't know I don't need any help we're good'm happy. I had a moment with my dad where I was like, you cannot wait in the parking lot for this person. Okay.

He's like, I got nothing to lose. And I was like, I get it. I understand your switch, but this can't. You can't go lower than the Reddit people. You can't make it worse at school dad. Don't talk to him dad. I was out of school. Everyone at school is gonna know.

Kidding, no. It's a little bit later on in life. Let's see here. I just, all the people to not liken the media, I mean, Saruti is so low on that list. So there you go. Thanks man. That's all good.

I think that was a compliment. I think so. There's so many worse people. Yeah, right. I think there's so many worse people. Yeah. Right. You're gonna get bad about Chinese tariffs.

God. Uh, all right. 5 11, 180 Southern Ontario, Canada. I work out just enough to hold my own on the basketball court, soccer field, NBA comp, Pablo. Pregioni. Hmm. Uh, names in the Pablo Prigioni. Names in the email have been changed. Thanks for doing that. All right.

I've been with my girl now five years. She's 26. I've turned 30. I love her very much. We're real tight, get along great, see eye to eye in most things. This is the first real head scratching issue that's come up. So they've been together five years. That's that's good. You know, we get a lot to work with here. A lot of data points. I don't know how to approach this. Let me dive in. A few of my close friends had weddings this summer and two of those were in the wedding party for, and her best friend and older sister have just recently become engaged.

Let me read that again. A few close friends had weddings this summer. Two of those, we were in the wedding party. There we go. That we thing makes a lot more sense now. So, and then on top of that older, her older sister and her, and her friend, best friend become engaged. Me and her have this converse. I've had this conversation and both know where we're at.

We both want to get married in the near future. So I thought there wasn't much confusion on the matter, but here's the kicker. About a month after her sister got engaged, my girl, Sandy name change has put an engagement type ring on her finger. When I noticed and asked her about it, she just brushes it off to the side. And she says she likes the ring. It just wants to have it on her finger. Crazy.

I know when I bring this up, this will cause some confusion and have friends and family think I've proposed and we're engaged and she says that we. Parentheses definitely means me, can just clear that up. And since we plan on getting married anyway, it's not a big deal if people make the wrong assumption. Part of me doesn't care and wants to tell anybody that asks if she bought the ring herself

and is just wearing that. But I know that's going to make me look bad and not make her look like the psycho that she's being. This is completely out of line from her normal behavior. This also has me worried about potential issues in our future and how strong arming me into action is a viable option for her. Ooh, this guy's really planning it out, thinking it out in his head. I like him.

It's a planner. There's a big birthday party with my friends coming up in a month and I'm getting a headache just thinking of how to handle all the excitement and questions from friends. What's your take on this? Uh, an extra note, I have an engagement ring and was formulating a romantic plan to propose, but now that's the furthest thing on my mind. Please help.

Yeah. Feel free on your mind. Well, I think like a lot of these conversations that we have of our relationships, it's okay. Well, is the rest of it really, really good? Okay. It is. You know, it seems like you've been with her five years

You already told us you were gonna marry or you've talked to her about being married, but this does suck I mean, it's it's a pretty selfish move because as you pointed out The The cleanup on this is a pain in the ass, it doesn't really mean anything It's so like that part of it's good. But just. It also is like what the hell?

Like now you. Does it though? It's, this is insane behavior. Cause now you have to explain why, like her level of crazy to other people. And when you tell people, oh no, she just likes to wear it on her ring. You have 10 other fingers or nine other fingers.

Like it's insane. That's, I don't know. I, it's a, it's not good. Yeah. Have you tried the compromise? Like, I don't know. I, it's a, it's not good. Yeah. Have you tried the compromise? Like, can we just go right hand with it? Like, can we just go right ring finger? What do you think about that? It's my grandma's something. I don't know. I remember there was a girl that I met that had an engagement ring on. And so I wasn't, and then she was being written. I was like, what,

what's going on? She's like, I just wear it. I was like, you're not even paying anybody? Yeah. Yeah, but the thing is, I don't know. I didn't, you know, people that do that, like go through all of that. I mean, I guess you're, congrats on being so desirable. I know.

That you're gonna wear an engagement ring that isn't attached to anything. To get stuff done throughout the day. Yeah. My Uber carpool is just so much easier now. Look, I get what you're saying sir. It's just a pain in the ass. And really to the bigger point,

what he's asking here is this some new red flag, but I think you would have known this. If this is like he says, completely out of character for her, then this is not the fifth or sixth thing in this time together where you're just like, this is like he says, completely out of character for her, then, you know, this is not the fifth or sixth thing in this time together where you're just like, this is ridiculous. The other part that I think is like really selfish about it is that you already were putting together the plan for the ring. You were thinking about how you wanted to propose and this moment that is such a

big deal for so many people, especially like younger people, I think, when they're getting engaged, like they really want to pull out of the stops. They want to be able to have the girl tell a story to all of her friends and how incredibly thoughtful you were thought of everything. And, you know, you pick this perfect spot. Yes, for permission. A secret photographer was behind the sand dunes, you know, the whole deal. So, she completely doesn't care about any of that stuff, but I don't think it's a deal breaker. I just don't. Yeah, if you've been together five years

and this is the first whiff of what the fuck was that, I don't know. I mean, it almost sounds like some bad life advice we would give one of our women listeners if they're like, you know, he's been dicking me around for five years. I don't really know what's going on. Um, and we were like, you could just get a ring. Like it sounds like some bad, like not thought out life advice, you know?

So, I mean, maybe we counter that with filling life advice. We're just off the show. I don't think we would even, I don't know. I don't think I would, but yeah, you haven't even done anything. She's just basically got engagement fever because she's been around a ton. And look, marketing works. A couple months, a couple, like she can't wait a couple.

I'm not saying you break up with her. If this is the first thing, then okay, then maybe the rest of your life will be good. But I do think it is smart to be like, wait, is this gonna be like the doors open to other things in life where, you know, all of a sudden she's like, you know, I don't know, buying like time shares or something because you won't buy her a vacation house. Like I don't, yeah, I don't, you know, I, this is just a weird,

like you can't be patient enough that you've already talked about being engaged. I don't know. She doesn't sound like she knows you have the ring, so that's fine. But you at least know it's on the horizon that she can't just wait even just a year for someone that she loves that to me is a It's a wildly strange and I I don't know I it would I don't think about breaking up it would bump me out as a dude to be like because then again that you're Making my life harder you're making me feel like I'm doing something wrong because we haven't done it like we haven't done this thing In time and your timeline even though we've talked about it together, that's, I just think it's rude and selfish. Yeah, I think, I think five years is a perfectly reasonable time to wait before you get married.

But there's people that get married after like a year or two. So maybe she's like comes from that world and she's like, man, by year three, I thought this would have been a done deal. I really don't know. But again, if this is the first like whiff of something weird you're getting, I mean, can you just be like, Oh, it's an anomaly. I mean, I don't know. Maybe back to the bad life advice suggestion. I mean, maybe her friends are sitting around being like, this is ridiculous. You've been together five years. He's 30. God damn. What's going on. Maybe there's some family value part of this. You know,

maybe there's a background where like it's actually absurd in this circle that you haven't proposed to her and you're oblivious to the idea that they've been talking about it nonstop the whole time. It sounds like she just goes, I want one of those two and then did it. And that part scares you because that means that if she's that impulsive, you're going to spend your 30s and 40s breaking down fucking boxes from Amazon every night the rest of your life. Maybe like how many peanut butter pretzels do we possibly need? We have a subscription to these. So like there's some purchasing stuff there.

I think you kind of, the email are kind of hit on it a little bit. I think you just got to tell her, okay, cool, fine. I'm going to this thing. You have an engagement ring on. I didn't propose to you. We're not engaged. I still want to marry you. That's on you.

You're running PR on this one. Okay? So whenever anybody asks, I'm just going to go ask her. And then you're going to have to explain. Right. You're going to go, well, I went to a bunch of weddings and people are close to me and like, it's just, it looks great. And I wanted to do it. And then she has to answer for her actions. And if you explain that to her before this big event and go, just so you know, like, I don't love love this I understand why you did it I'm gonna marry you everything's gonna be fine you kind of took my part of like the planning of this this big

moment in our lives you you kind of derailed that a bit and you want to wear it and that'll told you but you're explaining this I'm not going to explain this for you you're going to explain it to every single person and to be honest with, there's going to be people walking away and being like, that's weird. Yeah. Maybe that pressure is enough to have her switch hands with the ring or put it in her pocket or something. But yeah, I would, I like that.

I come up with like one succinct line that like basically just shifts the conversation towards her. Like find a way, like have it say, say the line, the way it sounds good to you. And then just, that's your, that that's your business card, like boom. Don't use the tone I used. Yes, that's right. A little bit more tact, however you pull that off. Anything else on that one?

We're good? Serving? I don't know. Wouldn't be a deal breaker for me, but yeah, it's definitely. Yeah, not a deal breaker, but like, Remarkable. It's all well and fine for you to be like,

oh yeah, just push it on her, ask her, but all your friends are like, dude, what the hell's up with what's her name? What's going on here? Like it's all, it's going to fall back on you because people are going to be like, she's too crazy for me to bring this up right now. So it's going to be you. So I don't know.

It's all well and fine to say that, but that's not how it's going to work out. Okay. Enormous weight of responsibility causing guilt. 26 years old, five, 10 licenses, six feet, because I was five, 10 when I got my permit and I thought I had more growth left. I love that.

That is incredible. After the- Don't sell yourself short, huh? The squat shrinkage of COVID, I had to like double check some, I was like, wait, can we look up a physical there, see what I checked in at? And so I just,

I just leave it on the license even though I'm, I'm cheating a little bit. I got my license renewed a couple of years ago and for some, I'm five 10, I'm comfortably five 10. It's, it's fine. I'm actually probably like a little above five 10. What's up? Yeah, no way. But my license is five nine for whatever reason, but I was so ashamed to like, I went up to the counter and like, do I really ask this guy to change to give me an extra edge on my height at age 35? Is that a thing I should do? Did you do it? No, I chickened out and it

says five nine. I know I'm not having 10 years at five nine. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe at 45 I'll have a different, isn't it? Wait, isn't it five years on the license? No, I think it's eight and maybe it's eight years or something. It's not, it's not a full 10, but it's not, it's longer than five. But yeah, I got too intimidated. I'm like, is that just like a loser move to be like, Hey, could you just add an inch to my height? Let's look that up.

Driver's license is it state by state? Yeah, mine's yeah. Cal 40 was five. Yeah. That's what I thought. I rocked the Connecticut stuff for a while. People, people were like, you still have a West Hartford license? Wasn't your dream always to move to Manhattan Beach?

I was like, my dream was also to knock out of the DMV earlier than I needed to. I had to take the driver's test and everything again when I was out here. I don't know if it's just, maybe it's just transplant cities, but Los Angeles, like my buddy, Blade, he's been out here, I think like probably closing in on you know almost two decades He stills got a main license. He's like yeah car insurance is cheaper there I'm like, what do you do when you get you know, whatever it's yeah, that sounds like that's not Might have to edit that out just for blades. Yeah, it's a real name. It's true. No, it's eight years by the way blade Eight years it's eight years in Connecticut. Okay, forty three ish No, when did you get it done a couple years ago? It's like it's the way fine blade eight years. It's eight years in Connecticut. Okay, forty

So eight three ish. No, when did you get it done a couple years ago? It's like it's early 40s for me sounds like somebody's Turn in five ten soon. Yeah, like you dunked at age 45 for the first time. I had five ten page 41. Let's go Okay, and yeah, what's this guy talking about? of course I was talking about. Yeah, I don't know. We lost the email already. So yeah, I don't know. I started looking up licenses here.

So now I've lost the email and we'll just leave this in there. Punishment for myself. I'm sorry. Immense responsibility, he said. So, okay. Yeah. No, the trauma built.

It's just such a great opening line. All right. So two 25 lost about 35 pounds over the last year or so. Okay. I was in thick season. Gym stats are average, nothing to boast about. I run six times a week ranging from two miles to seven miles, depending on if I ate too much.

So this guy's driven. Basketball comp is Robert Sacre in terms of bench energy. Nothing on the floor because again, 5'10". Some guys at 5'10 can compete and pick up games, I think, right? Come on. I recently have hit a crossroads in my professional career and it's eating at my self-worth and self-esteem. I recently decided to move jobs after four years due to a lack of growth and company going under slowly

with no hope for promotion. I switched to something that I was sold was going to provide me that growth without much regression. As you can tell from me writing this, writing that that didn't go the way I was told. Long story short, my mid-level job turned into an entry-level job and my hybrid job turned into an entry-level job of my hybrid job

Turned into door-to-door sales, which was nothing close to what I signed up for So a nightmare. Yeah. Yeah to make matters worse. I have a wedding in a few weeks My fiance were excited to take the step forward my career at full support and structure Everything was so far from water was promised. I had to leave and pivot to other jobs spent a few weeks Oh, man, so this is new. I still have no job prospects really. I feel like I made a huge mistake and the guilt of this compounded that I let my partner down. I also feel as if I made a choice that is going to have me regress my career path. I'm now looking at restraint jobs. I don't know that I haven't held while praying that someone would let me back to the level of close. Restaurant jobs maybe?

held while praying that someone would let me back to the level of close. Restaurant jobs maybe? I don't know. I mean, there potentially could just be a term that I'm not familiar with. I don't know. Um, well, get me back to the level or close to what I once held. What do you think, what do you all think, uh, as you've spoken about low points or professional careers, did I mess up big time by aspiring for more? Should I just stick to the small bump in the road?

Uh, headlines, completely small bump in the road. You're 26 years old. Okay. I think there's some positives in here. One is that you care enough about your fiance that you are feeling that guilt, but I would stop feeling this guilt because again, I cannot emphasize this enough. This is a massive bump in the road. Okay.

But you just haven't been through enough shit yet. You know, sometimes when I think about like this, I've thought, I don't know, this book is in my head, but this, um, this is't been through enough shit yet. You know, sometimes when I think about like this, I've thought, I don't know, this book is in my head, but this, um, this like make-believe moment of zen of happiness that maybe we believe is potentially achievable, right? That you just get to a certain point, certain level of success, um, certainly wealth is part of that, you know, health and family and all those other things. But like you keep potentially thinking that you're building towards all of these great things in your life. And then as you just kind of get older and older,

you're like, yeah, I don't know that it really is all that much easier and maybe all the success I have doesn't lead to the same level of happiness that I thought I was going to have. But really what it is, is it's not just this oasis of happiness. It's just that you've been through so many things now. You've experienced so much shit that it's tougher to derail you and that it's not happiness. It's your ability to get over things a lot quicker, just because you've been through more stuff, right?

Think about like if you're 40 right now listening to this, the first breakup versus your third one, right? Think about like if you're 40 right now, listening to this, the first breakup versus your third one. Probably just like, all right, unless you're just an emotional wreck watching gossip girl DVDs still by yourself. But so I cannot, I think we've hammered that point home because this is probably like the first time something like this has happened to you.

It feels, it feels brutal. something like this has happened to you, it feels, it feels brutal. So like I said, the fact that you aren't like, there's another version of a guy here who's like, whatever, I don't even really care. Like it doesn't matter, but you actually left because you aspire to bigger things. And then the job you were, you were lied to, I believe here, or, and look, that stuff happens, man. Like I remember I was hanging out with someone who, who was looking for work and they made the mistake of like following up on like some solar panel thing. And there was just all of a sudden now their phone number was just in the mix of all of these recruiters, just constantly calling all of a sudden now their phone number was just in the mix of all of these

recruiters just constantly calling all of the time. And I'd be like, just keep them on the phone. I want to hear like what the pitch is. You know, right? Like I just, I'm curious like what the pitch actually is. And the, and the pitch was just everything. I was like, there's no way any of this is true. Like none of this is true. Maybe for like the 1% of the people that actually go like Ryan and do that. I was like, if you do this, like you're going to be a few weeks in going. This isn't what I thought. Yeah. And so maybe that happened to you, which is just really, really nasty shit, man.

Um, again, my first job with that minor league baseball team, the stuff I was told versus how it actually all played out. Um, and good, it was the opportunity that started my career. So there's that part of it. But I remember being there for a few months and I had, look, I'd left Vermont when I finally was done with school. Cause I just thought you were supposed to do that. I went home cause I didn't have anywhere else to go.

And I thought of like, Oh, I'm going to be a writer. I'm going to do all these crazy fucking things. And I'm like, how am I going to do any of this from Martha's Vineyard in the winter? And I was like, if anything, it feels like there's just another babysitter around. So that lasted a quick three months and I went back to Vermont. And it was funny because people that didn't even know me were like, Oh,

look at you, you tried to make it and you had to come back. And I remember that like getting in my head a little bit at 23 years old. Cause I was just right back. And some guys were like, are you going out very much? And I was like, well, cause I don't, I didn't live here. They're like, you moved back here. And there was this weird people that didn't know me. There was kind of this little vibe of like, Oh, he tried to go to the big city.

Like none of that happened. I was at home at my parents' house and I was like, you know what? I don't want to live on Martha's vendor in the winter at 23. I've already did this. I already did this in high school. Like, I don't want to do this again. Why did I leave? But it was after college.

So I felt like I had to leave. And then I realized like, well, if I'm a loser here, I'd rather just be a loser back in Vermont, cause that was a hell of a lot more fun. And when I went to New Jersey three years after that, two and a half, whatever, I was like, I made another mistake. I'm like, this job is not, I'm like, what are you nuts? Like none of this is going to work. This is so stupid. And I wanted to go back to Vermont for a few different reasons. But at that point, I was like, you're going to go back again, you're going to go back like a third time in four years? And then what are you going to do?

Like all this work that you've been putting in to even get to this point. So look, I know that took a while, but the point of the exercise is that I just cannot emphasize enough how little this will actually mean. You know what? And if she's marrying you, she probably has your back and she's gonna be saying, all right, yeah, this sucks, but it's gonna be irrelevant. It's gonna be irrelevant on the timeline of you two being together. Yeah, I don't have a bet in the situation.

My wife has been in the situation. It really, really sucks when you get sold a bill of goods. And I mean, I'm not gonna offer any advice, but it does, it really burns my ass, so to speak. Like I think, like if you bought a service and it wasn't delivered, you know, as how it was like sold to you, like how it was explained to you, like there's recourse there. And I just think it's so crazy that like, you can switch jobs, maybe even move completely change sectors off of being told

all this stuff. And then it's not even remotely what it's like. And there's just no recourse. It's weird that like that applies to everything else except for like a huge life change like this. So yeah, it sucks. Yeah. I mean, if you're 26 and you don't like your job, you don't like the direction you were

lied to and you're in a good stable relationship, like, I don't know, I feel like you're kind of winning there because you got out of the job situation. Don't look, it's like, it's, we talked about this with like when you're dating someone and then you're single for a while and you're like, Oh man, did I actually have it that bad with my accidents? Like you only remember the, you only remember the things that like were positive for you or that were good for you. It doesn't seem like there was anything positive at that job. Move on, do something different. It might be a few lean years, but like if you're motivated and it sounds like you're self-aware enough to like actually give a crap about what your

girl thinks and what your career prospects are, it sounds like you've got a good head on your shoulders. Like I, you know, long-term I think you'll be all right. People in their mid-20s like figuring out or pivoting their career directions, that happens all the time. And honestly, that's a good age to do it. Because if you're doing that before your 30s, there's plenty of people who have done that after their 30irties and they're in a way more difficult predicament than you're in. It's great that you care about this. It sucks what you're going through,

but it's great that you care about being a provider. You care about trying to be somebody that's not, you know, there's plenty of marriages. Is anybody listening to this knows it's like once they get married and all of a sudden it's like, maybe I'll just start mailing it in a little bit here. And you seem to have the opposite approach. And I know what it feels like when it's, when you're down and it's not happening

and you're not waking up, going to the thing that you thought you were going to be going to, you're just like, okay, when's this going to be over? But the point is, it's going to be over. It will be over and then you'll be in the next phase. And the timing of it isn't great, but I just telling you it sucks right now, but do not worry about this. That'll do it for life advice. Thanks to war gone, Kyle.

So Rudy, our YouTube page is up new post yesterday, mail it in Thursdays. Uh, so subscribe to the YouTube channel, Ron Russo, the podcast ringer, Spotify. Must be 21 and older. President-select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino are 18 plus and present in DC. Gambling problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org forward slash chat in Connecticut or visit md gambling help.org in Maryland Hope is here visit gambling help line ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24 seven support Massachusetts or call 1-877-8 hope NY or text hope NY in New York