The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Lions Domination, Lamar’s MVP, Season Awards, and Patriots Fire Mayo With Domonique Foxworth

Episode Date: January 6, 2025

Russillo starts the show with his NFL regular-season awards, including best win, most surprising team, and most disappointing team (0:41). Then, he’s joined by Domonique Foxworth to break down the Lions defense, reveal who each would pick for MVP, and preview the playoff favorites (21:43). Finally, Ceruti and Kyle join for Life Advice (67:13)! How do I handle creepy men as a female personal trainer? Check us out on YouTube for exclusive clips, livestreams, and more at https://www.youtube.com/@RyenRussilloPodcast The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Ryen Russillo Guest: Domonique Foxworth Producers: Steve Ceruti, Kyle Crichton, and Mike Wargon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Okay, let's do this. The regular season is over, but we have to give love to the Detroit Lions. Lions football, number one seed in the NFC. How do they do it? They were dominant defensively. Their game plan with Dominic Foxworth. I'm going to talk about best storylines, worst storylines from the entire season. MVP, comeback player of the year, and Mayo on the way out of Foxborough. We're gonna do even more Dominique on some of the playoff stuff with him.

He's gonna tell some stories about matchup specific things from his playoff days, and we've got life advice. Enjoy your Monday. Another regular season in the books. Let's recap some of the week 18 headlines, but more importantly, a look at the overall season and kind of where we're at with some of the stories on a Monday. Nothing is a bigger deal than what Detroit did last. Nothing. It is the single best win for any team in any week throughout the entire season, considering

what was on the line for the NFC, the seeding, the buy and everything else going up against Minnesota. Lions football, your number one line for the NFC, the seeding, the buy and everything else going up against Minnesota. Lions football, your number one seed in the NFC. Anzaloni MVP. That would feel a bit reactionary, but it was nice to have him back. Aaron Glenn, assistant coach of the year, got my vote on that game alone. I mean, what Detroit is doing now with their injuries and what they did

defensively to disrupt this Vikings offense. I want to get into it, go more in depth with Dominique Foxworth. We'll understand it better than most. But I just last night in disbelief this morning impressed again, woke up. First thing I was thinking was Lions football. I was like, how did they do it? So they've got the one seed, they've got the buy. Philly's on the other side of the bracket.

Dominant win, 31-9 over the Vikings. Darnold was bad, doesn't mean he was bad, but he was pretty bad last night. He was 12-29 at one point, 18-41 on the game, 166 yards total, low on any game in the season. His 17th QBR was the second worst of any game this year. And even though he was sacked only twice, that does not tell you what happened in last night's game because it was about pressure and it was about disruption and it was about an aggressive three hours

of defensive football by Aaron Glenn in this unit that I didn't know if they'd be able to hold up. I didn't even think the announcers thought they would hold up. Collinsworth was telling you at the beginning, he goes, yeah, you know, he's got, and then I'll admit like halftime reset. Mike has come out. Like they should still be able to pull this one out here, considering what they're going up against and Nope, it got uglier.

So the story is that Detroit blitzed on 56% of Darnold drop backs. Darnold was pressured on 49% of those. He had, I would say four significant airmail throws early in the first few possessions where you're like, he's not even close and he never really settled down. They held Jefferson to three catches for 54 yards. They held Addison to one catch for zero yards. And he never really settled down. They held Jefferson to three catches for 54 yards. They held Addison to one catch for zero yards. A complete domination by a line's defense that literally everyone now has

memorized their injured reserve issues. When national hosts can list the names of all the players that are on injured reserve, like locally, I know that you guys get it in Detroit, but when the national people are doing it, when the national broadcast has a graphic showing the world your IR problems, you know, it's bad. So the Lions were tougher, which has been a common theme all season long. Uh, I had doubts about them getting through the NFC with all these injuries. Obviously the injuries still have to concern all of us, but last night

makes me rethink what's possible. This is a 15 and two team. Week two loss against Tampa where they had seven red zone possessions, ended up with just one touchdown. They've been more aggressive since. And then the other losses against the Bills when Josh Allen just put on the Superman cape.

Those are the only two losses for this team at 17 games. Like a flukey outgain Tampa all day long. Can't get it done in the red zone. Josh Allen, Superman. That's it. So if Detroit wins the Superbowl last night will be one of those games where there'll be all sorts of playoff memories. I mean, we're talking about a Superbowl run here and you know, look, what's still

a lot he's happy here. I still might we're talking about a Super Bowl run here and you know, look, looks still a lot. He's happy here. I still might even pick the Eagles, but you get the point. Like if you're a Lions fan today and say they win this whole thing, which again, I'm getting carried away here, but let's just do it for a second. They're going to be all these playoff memories. It could be some big third down, maybe an interception, a sack or whatever. What happens in the title game? What happens with Super Bowl? You're going to remember those. Most people are going to remember those, but the hardcore Lions guide, gonna be some big third down, maybe an interception, a sack or whatever, what happens. And then they see title game, what happens,

super low, you're gonna remember those. Most people are gonna remember those. But the hardcore Lions guy, you're gonna be like hanging out in somebody's garage seven years from now, getting ready for kickoff, reliving how great this season was, right? And you're gonna be thinking about all of these things that happened over the course of a season.

There's gonna be that one guy in your group that's like, yeah, but remember what they did at the end of the regular season against the Vikings with all the injuries? Remember when they just killed those guys? Remember when they did that? There'll be that guy in your group. But I also think if there was a neutral fan base,

like approval rating thing of like, okay, this is my favorite team, but if my team can't win the Super Bowl, who would ever be like, who would everyone be rooting for? I think Detroit would have have probably the highest like neutral fan approval rating of any team potentially in this playoff mix Alright, so if we want to look at that as the best win, I think let's stay positive here Go who's the most surprising team on the season? Which story is like the best story of like didn't expect that to happen. That's really impressive.

Minnesota is probably still the answer. I think we can still do that despite last night. There were 14 and three. Their win total this summer from Vegas was 6 1, 1, that win improvement over what their projection was, was tied for the most games won over its win total projection in 35 years. If you want to find another one,

I guess you could go Broncos rookie quarterback getting into playoffs, ending in eight and then getting into the playoffs. for the most games won over its win total projection in 35 years. If you want to find another one, I guess you could go Broncos, rookie quarterback, getting into the playoffs, ending an eight year playoff drought, which just makes it, when you see what's happening in New England, saw what happened in Denver post-manning, you're like, are these quarterbacks underpaid?

Like the really special ones that fix all of your problems. And then as soon as they're gone, you're like, wow, things are not good here. So I think that Broncos probably in the mix here a little bit, but rookie quarterbacks have played in playoffs. And if you want to go rookie quarterback, then you just go to the NFC and take a look at Jayden Danos and the Washington commanders. So maybe Washington is actually the better pick if you were going to argue

Denver because of the better record. Um, and Washington, a much better draw on the playoffs, even though there doesn't really have anything to do with the regular season story because of the better record. Um, and Washington, a much better draw on the playoffs, even though there's really have anything to do with the regular season story as they are plus three at Tampa and Denver's plus nine on Fandu right now at Buffalo. Speaking of Tampa, I feel like I've been dismissive and maybe dismissive isn't the right word. I haven't talked about them as much as other teams in the NFC.

And I can tell you like, at least from my perspective doing this, I always use the Chicago Bulls example. Remember when the Bulls had like a really good start a couple of years ago and they had this great record. And then a lot of people weren't really taking it seriously. And it was like, well, now you're just moving the goalpost. You guys didn't think it would be any good. Now we're pretty good.

And now you're saying, well, no, what we're doing now is we're comparing you to the other teams that could potentially win the Eastern Conference. And we don't think you're that good. So now we're being more critical of you because you are now at a different tier because of your record and guess what? None of it worked out. It wasn't that big deal. But Bulls fans are really upset.

Like as if it was some move to just be incredibly unfair. I think for Tampa fans, there's some similarity because this is a team that's won their division now for straight years. The win totals aren't staggering. Ten wins this year, nine wins the previous year, eight wins the year before that, and 13 and four four years ago, the year after they won the Superbowl where they actually finished second in the division.

But again, it's a division that is generally one of the worst divisions in the NFL. But when you look at what was happening yesterday, cause I'm like, I don't really talk about them a ton because I don't think they're as good as Detroit, as Philadelphia, as Green Bay, you know, Minnesota, I don't, I don't think they're as good as those teams. And that's probably why I haven't talked about them as much all season long. And yes, part of it is the division thing.

And then we're looking a couple hours into yesterday and it's pretty dicey. The Bucs are down 16-6 against the Saints. Atlanta's up 24-17 against Carolina. And you're like, are they actually going to miss? Was I right to be kind of whatever about Tampa Bay all season long, because of the way it's playing out. But then things turn. Atlanta loses to Carolina.

And as we know, it would have been irrelevant then because, you know, Tampa ends up getting the win going to 10 and seven, this whole thing. But if you look at Tampa Bay's offensive numbers, there may be something worth looking at here. There are incredible numbers across the board. Their fourth and offensive yards per play, San Francisco, by the way, was number two. Their seventh in yards per pass attempt, their third in yards per carry, their third in yards game, their fourth in scoring, their number one on third down conversion, I think going into yesterday, there was two teams at 50% third down

conversion. Tampa was technically number one, so that could have moved a little bit there. You know, the defensive numbers aren't great. They're middle to lower, but they're not at the bottom. Some of them are average. Some of them are below that. The funny thing is you look at a team like this that maybe you're not blown away with, and you're like, oh, how do they get to 10 wins?

Is it the turnover margin? They're actually on the bad side of the turnover margin. They're minus four 18th, middle of the pack in the NFL. And again, that rating could have changed because the numbers being updated late last night. Baker's going to throw a few picks. It's funny too, when you look at the interception leaders on this season, uh, he ended up tying for the lead this year, but no one was over 20 picks this

year, if you go through it, historically year to year, there's usually a guy, Philip Rivers used to be good for like a 20 every now and then, and then you still No one was over 20 picks this year. If you go through it, historically year to year, there's usually a guy, Philip Rivers used to be good for like a 20 every now and then, and then you still look back at Jamies like how did that happen? Again, Kirk Cousins and Baker tied for 16 of the most picks. So maybe it's a Baker thing or whatever, but look, they've won the division again. And this offense is pretty dangerous. And they found a way to keep those stats up up even missing receivers through different stretches of the season.

Speaking of the Carolina Atlanta game, I want to propose something a little bit different when we get to award season here. Comeback player of the year, it should be Bryce Young. Why do we have to wait for some guy to have a knee injury in 23 to acknowledge him for coming back from it from 24? If you go through comeback player of the year, it's usually you were hurt last year and now you were good. Or what if you were like a hall of famer got hurt and then came back and just

played awesome because you're an awesome football player. Is that really a comeback? Chad Pennington won it twice, by the way. So it's really, Hey, you're usually really good. You got hurt and then you're good again. How about within the same year, your career looks like it's over as the number one overall pick. You didn't even make it to like 14 months and now it looks like you actually might have a chance.

I don't know how good Price Young's going to be, but the fact that it was this in the second half of the season with his return, I think voters should look at it that way and go, you know what, he's the comeback player of the year because I think what he came back from, I know it's not an injury, but just the absolute confidence devastation that he was facing to the point where he's now smiling again after completions. I think he should be comeback player of the year. MVP, I was pretty, pretty stubborn about Lamar for a while. And then Josh Allen just put together these weeks where I was like, man, this

kind of feels like the right one. I don't know that there's a wrong answer, but for me, it's still Lamar. So I came back around Lamar statistically, you put them side by side. It's kind of hard, hard to argue the Josh Allen part of this. You want to say the two extra wins, two extra wins, two extra losses. Is that that big of a deal? I mean, both of them had to carry their teams. This season, some of the Baltimore defensive stuff, although it got better during this

win streak, uh, was really abysmal there at times. And again, if you put the two numbers next to each other, I think of Lamar had never won an MVP prior to this year, then this wouldn't be as close. So I hope Lamar doesn't lose it because people just get bored and want to give it to somebody else. And I don't want to say that's what's going to happen here with Alan, but I think that would be part of the motivating factor for the vote to change. So Lamar is my MVP. Most disappointing season from a team this year.

I think it's Cincinnati. They fought back from four and eight to get to nine and eight out of the playoffs, Denver's win yesterday. And aside on Denver, Denver beats the Chiefs G League team. If you'll allow this moment, it crept into my head a little bit because I was the chiefs G league team. If you'll allow this moment, it crept into my head a little bit, because I was talking about the turnover at quarterback and the fact that this is a bad draft. And, you know, if there's six teams, seven teams that want to go into next year with a different quarterback to start week one in 2025, are there going to be enough available options to skirt

cousins actually have more of a trademark it than you would think, because there going to be enough available options to skirt cousins actually have more of a trademark than you would think, because there's just not enough quarterbacks to be the new guy around the league. And then I saw Carson Wentz out there. And before the game gets started, and Carson Wentz, by the way, the third quarterback in NFL history to start a game for five different teams in five straight years.

All right. I was like, what if Wentz has a nice little game, little Andy Reed tutelage camp for the year? Like could Wentz maybe be an option for a team in 25? Like you want to make it six years, six straight years, starting a game in this league with a new team. Uh, then he went 10 to 17, 98 yards and got shut out. So I just, if you can allow the absurdity of that

potential scenario, I'm not sure it's even a hundred percent debt because I just don't think there's going to be that many guys that are available if that many teams want to make a change. So back to Cincinnati on to Cincinnati, burrow number one in yards, number one in TDs, number three in QBR. The best season that he's ever had statistically. Jamar Chase wins the wide receiver, triple crown. Shout out Don Hudson.

And then you have the defense and then you have the close losses. And a lot of teams are going to tell you this off season when they break from mini camp and get through all that. Like, oh, we had seven one loss games. It's like, you know what? A lot of teams have those, but it felt like Cincinnati's were especially devastating. I mean, hell that, that Broncos game last week, I'm like, they're going to lose

this one, just painful, painful stuff from them all season long. But is that really as disappointing as say the Jets who were absolute disaster? By the way, how about Rex Ryan's quotes? I am the choice of the job. It's not close. I'm the right guy. And Aaron Rodgers country club days are over. Whoa.

All right. How about the 49ers? At least with the Niners, we can explain it because of the health stuff, but going from playing in the Superbowl to six and 11, um, maybe for a day, the most disappointing team in the New England Patriots. I'm still saying on the season at Cincinnati, but how about the Pats? All they had to do was lose to Buffalo yesterday who didn't care about winning. We had a little Mitch Trubisky action out there and they would lock up the

number one pick in the NFL draft. Well, now the Pats have the fourth pick because Joe Milton decided to show up and fall out. I'm not a hundred percent sure what you're supposed to do if you're New England, as opposed to just like running it out of bounds backwards and really making it gross. And remember when the Eagles did it with Doug Peterson and granted, it was like a later game, so everybody was watching it and the everybody was on the same page until they were.

I was like, Hey, we're going to lose this game. And then everybody's just watching that game and people are really disgusted and you're like, who actually gives a shit. But it turned into a big kind of like. Think piece about what was right. And then you're like, who actually gives a shit? But it turned into a big kind of like think piece about what was right and what was wrong. Where if you're in the one o'clock window

surrounded by all these other bad games, no one's really paying attention. But look, Bills blow coverage, Milton hits it. He started off on fire. They ended up winning this game. It just for a team that didn't seem like they could do anything right. And that's why they were in the position to be the number one pick in the, in the

NFL draft 25 to then like, Hey, keep doing all the stuff you've been doing for four months and then do it again on Sunday, just to make sure we lock up the number one pick. They couldn't even do that. So Mayo is out and he's one of 18 head coaches now since 2001 to be fired after just one season. I'm actually surprised they did it because a few weeks ago, maybe a month ago, it felt like the Crafts because they had handpicked Mayo so many years ago to become the successor to Belichick

and that they just didn't want to deal with the PR of having him be the head coach and then going, yep, we got this so wrong. Cause it also makes you look bad. But I would say I'm proud of the crafts for just going, this actually was this bad in another year to allow Mayo to develop may have been fair or more fair than this certainly to Mayo, but it would have been unfair to what should be the face of the franchise in

the development of Drake may. And as far as the pick is concerned, you could sit there and say, well, look, the Pat's already drafted their quarterback. It's not that big of a deal that they fell from one to four. It's not some all time draft. It's not loaded with quarterbacks and receivers like we just had in 24, but you give up a lot of power and you give up what potentially was going to be another resource or two coming your way because another team would have fallen in love

with one of those two quarterbacks. They would have been quarterback desperate and they would have probably traded you. I don't know if the price is another first for them to move up, but it likely would have been for pick that you didn't need, but you needed the assets that came with it when they potentially moved it. Cause they weren't going to take a quarterback again. So a bad day in Fox, so a bad day in Fox bro all around. We finished with a stat to impress. So a bad day in Foxboro. So a bad day in Foxboro all around. We finished with a stat to impress. Stats to impress people. So every year when you start your projections,

you have to figure out the six new football teams, right? When you're doing the playoff stuff, you're like, hey, doesn't feel right. How do I do this? I've got to come up with six new teams with the depth of quarterback, especially in the AOC. I'm wondering if we need to dial that back, but we get ready to make our 25 projections.

So the average was six for so long. And that was with six teams in each conference. Well, that was seven. The changeover from 23 to 24 is only four teams. So Kansas City, Buffalo, Baltimore, Houston, top four, top four again. Pittsburgh in, that's five. New teams, Denver and the Chargers.

And it's not like the Chargers are bad, right? They're set up with their own quarterback. So I'm just wondering if the AAC is going to have less turnover going through the next few years. Granted, we'll have injuries and then what he can predict. But just something to think about for a league that normally has incredible, unexplainable turnover. Football fans buckle up because for the first time ever,

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All right, first look at this. So tough to have maybe some liens, but I don't know if we'll have anything definitive until the end of the week, and then we'll get back to couch money research for you, by the way. So the first number that comes out where I'm like, eesh, Green Bay plus four and a half, I think I saw it somewhere at five this morning,

but it's four and a half as of this taping at Philadelphia. So maybe a little bit more faith than you would have thought on the line there. And the other one is Minnesota minus one and a half at the Rams. Um, Baltimore number is massive. You know, this Pittsburgh thing that we did all year long where it's, it's a bit like in my open where I talked about Tampa and it's not being nasty towards Tampa. It's just comparing Tampa to the rest of the NFC field. It was the same thing with Pittsburgh, comparing like, hey, nice defense,

nice little run you're going on there. I don't know how you beat Baltimore the first time. Well, you do because the field goal part of it, but Pittsburgh plus nine and a half right now at Baltimore. And the total on that one's a little bit higher than I thought it would be, 44 and a half. Denver Bills, eight and a half, nine everywhere. And then Washington plus three at Tampa.

So if you wanna cover something massive there, the Chargers are also minus two and a half favored against Houston. I feel like I like the Chargers on the road. I don't know that I'd want to lay nine and a half with Baltimore just because of that game. But clearly, I mean, that's the biggest number out of any of these, which kind of speaks to what I think

a lot of us that just watch it all season long, the doubt about Pittsburgh and here we go. Yeah, and then maybe the Green Bay part of it plus four and a half. So that's just an early look at what we have on FanDuel. So not only do we get to watch five straight days of playoff football, but that's also five chances to win big. Just visit fanduel.com slash Ryan, R-O-Y-E-N

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receipt max refund $5 unless otherwise specified restrictions apply including token expiration C terms at sportsbook.bandle.com gambling problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Joining us this Monday to wrap up the regular season, look ahead at some of the playoff stuff. Guy we love having on the show, Dominique Foxworth. Wanna remind everybody that of course you can check out his podcast, the Dominique Foxworth Show podcast,

available wherever you get podcasts. And coming up January 15th, he's gonna have a live show in Manhattan, 630 Eastern at the Whitby Hotel Theater. So if you want to just go to his account at Fox worth 24 you can figure out all the information there and check him out in person. What's up man? What's happening man? I appreciate the shout out and I do love coming on this show. Can't wait to jump into all the fun football. Let's start with last night because I'm still in disbelief.

Not that I'm shocked that Detroit beat Minnesota, but the way they did it. And I'm going to throw a couple of numbers at you and then I might want to just stay in this area, just discussion wise. They come out, Detroit does, with all the limitations defensively. We know the injury report. I've been talking about it for weeks. They lose Arnold last night too, but at that point the game was kind of over, but it was very clear the defensive approach was pressure, pressure,

pressure against Arnold all night long. They blitz on 56% of his drop backs. They played cover zero 14 times, which apparently in the tracking stuff was the most of any defense in any game all season long. And you could tell by the way, the Collins Earth and Toreca were talking about it. Clearly Aaron Glenn and the coaching staff in the production meetings talked about their approach that, you know, I think it's a great part of a broadcast where a team's willing to share that. This is going to be the game plan. And then when it comes out and you can just see Collins worth gushing be like they said they were going to do this and it worked, you know, and it just well, I have a followup. So let me just ask you first and foremost, like what you saw about this,

because I think it's as impressive as anything that I've seen this season. And it's the single biggest win when you consider everything that was at stake last night. So I gotta say that there were a lot of possible outcomes last night's game, the idea that the best unit would be the Lions defense. Like the unit that won them that game

would be Aaron Glenn and Lions defense is the most shocking thing. And I think we all were considering like, yeah, the Lions could win. They, I don't think very many of us picked them, but yeah, they could win, but they'll win in a shootout the way that they have been kind of winning recently. But in that game to see the way that they played it

and how aggressive they were defensively. And I think you're right, they fed Toreko and Collinsworth that information. They weren't completely honest with them, though, because in rewatching the all 22, you see that some of the zero coverages were like a true zero where they send the pressure and other zero coverages were like a zero with a double on Jefferson. Because they didn't really leave Jefferson one-on-one very much

in that game, even when they were at pressure. The one time I remember them doing it, Jefferson had a big play. So they were aggressive, which is shocking because most teams don't have one good corner. They definitely don't have two good corners. They're down to three and four of their corners against two incredible receivers.

And they did put them in isolation man coverage a number of times. And if you practice, if you play a style of defense, just because you have injuries, you can't really change it. You're not going to be better at playing cover two with the worst players. If you practice being like a man coverage, aggressive blitz team all year long. So while I probably would have been scared to leave my corners out there in isolation against anybody, they didn't. And that's a credit to Aaron Glenn and, um, Dan Campbell and the players, frankly.

Okay. So it also led me to think like, if that's the approach against those two receivers, because I think Addison's terrific as well, um, if that's the approach against somebody like Donald who's put together this kind of year, does it mean teams are just, there's too many D coordinators that are like, I'll just keep everything in front of us.

We're just gonna play too deep all the time. Like was last night perhaps a statement that teams should trust their approach in letting corners go out there and play with less help. I mean, I don't want to overreact too much from this, but there's just so many games where you'll see the drop back and the quarterback may not get rid of the football because it's just, all right, you know, maybe this is the right way. There's certain games with quarterbacks, it's tough when it's not the all 22. You're like, well, clearly he doesn't like what he sees down there, but we can't really see the perfect angle from it. And yet, I don't know, like the offensive line, I don't know if it's the Vikings issue there

where they felt like they couldn't, they saw something where like these guys can't hold up against us or if it was just the opposite of what I feel like I see all day on Sunday where D-coordinators are like, as long as I have a two deep safety, I can't be criticized. Yeah, I think the way the game evolves, football is really fast. And I think there was a time when the too deep zone or just keeping everything in front of you was

like a good strategy because teams were much aggressive, much more aggressive offensively. And I think that shifted some and the teams have adjusted to find ways to attack that, which is not hard to attack. But if you're approaching a game without expecting that, then something different happens. So I think that there is a zig there to be more aggressive and coverage-wise. But I also think that this is a unique scenario, because sometimes you fall into these situations because of your personnel and because of,

I think the Vikings and the Lions are similar in that their aggressive defensive style is consistent with what their coordinators want to do, but also it was a result of what they had to do. The Lions don't have a ton of pass rushes. And Aiden Hutchinson came on and was great, but their biggest criticism, I remember two years ago, preseason two years ago, I said, I like the Lions, we're all excited about the Lions, but I don't think they can win because they can't rush the passer.

And so they addressed that by being extra aggressive. So I think sometimes we want to dub the coaches really smart and innovative, but sometimes you look at your roster, you're like, what we got? We got a couple good corners. We don't got no pass rushers. What's the best thing we can do? And the last thing I would say is when you have a team that's depleted by injury, you want to have a more like high-variant style or more volatile style. It's like, all right, yeah, you might cook our corners, but we're not going to sit back and think that we can go and just play

straight up with you because we're not better than you. So we'll find a way to muck it up. And if you beat us over the top a couple of times, we'll live with that. That's a better way. And I think that's also more consistent with Dan Campbell's general style, going fourth on fourth down. It's like, we're not gonna sit back and let you do what you want. If you're gonna beat us, we're gonna make you beat us.

Yeah, because I remember there was a Niners game where Collins was talking about, he's like, oh, they only set four, and then he was basically saying like, man, you never get there, so cool. And it kind of speaks to what you said, like, oh, you know, we never want to expose our guys out there. It's like, well, if you're never getting any pressure and the guy

is just comfortable the entire time, and you could tell pretty clearly, like, Darnold, I think it's something that's lost at times and you feel like you can't hit the quarterback. But whether it was, you know, a linebacker changing up his pass rush, you know, the safety that came down the middle where Donald's looking at that one. And that was a little bit later where he's like, all right, I'm going to get blasted on this one too.

He was air mailing throws in that first half. I mean, there was four overthrows where, you know, he could have had Jefferson a couple of different times. I know Jefferson thought he was penalized on one of them, but whatever it was, the, the let's get this guy thinking back there, it, it had, it wasn't a third quarter thing. It felt like within a couple series, Dardell already was seeing ghosts. Yeah.

And I don't mean, and I don't mean to say that to be funny when he said that on the sideline there, but somebody who's been so good this year, and I don't know if this is another thing I'll just throw in to ask you to comment on, is it a route depth thing is that, or is there something eventually where you have to on the other side be like, okay, we need to get the ball out quicker here, even though it's Jefferson, even though it's Jordan, and we'd like to take these deep shots, like we have to figure out a way to, to shorten up some of the stuff that we're looking to attack. I absolutely think it's route depth.

But the challenge again is like, what have you practiced? How have you played all year long? They have not been that type of dink and dunk team. But to the Lions' credit, that's what the Lions did. The Vikings are an aggressive team. So the Lions, their major offensive adjustment to me in the second half when they started moving the ball and scoring was, we're going to throw the ball on first down. So I think they were eight to one in the third quarter for passing on first down.

They threw it eight times, they ran it once. And it was also like short passes. They didn't touch intermediate or deep that much. We had that one really deep pass that was intercepted when the lines were backed up. But they were really adjusting to the defenses that they were seeing. And I can't say that I felt like,

despite the fact that Kevin O'Connell was probably one of the best offensive coaches in football, we didn't see those adjustments. We didn't see those plays that were designed to get Donald comfortable and designed to attack the weaknesses of the coverage. If you have these backups in the secondary,

get the ball out, man. You gotta get it out. Make them tackle, make them make plays. And I think they're so accustomed to being able to protect and attacking downfield with Justin Jefferson, that that is how they want to live. And in hindsight, it's so easy for us to be critical of these situations in these plays. But like you mentioned, it's not like people weren't open.

If Darnold hits three, two of those four wide open passes that we saw him miss in the game, like it's a different conversation. So while now I can look at it and say, you got to shorten up the depth of your routes, you got to attack where they're giving you space. I can also understand their thought process of like, we have enough guys to pick up the pressure because they didn't outnumber them too many times. We can pick it up and generally my feeling about blitzing teams as an offense, I want to make you pay because if you blitz me and I gain five yards, you're like, all right, fuck it, I'll do it again. Sooner or later, your mind is I'm going to get a sack fumble, I'm going to call a turnover,

I'm going to cause a turnover if it only costs me five yards. I want to overprotect and make you pay. I want to get a 30, 40 yarder to make you scared to blitz me again, which is what I think if I'm given the benefit of the doubt to Vikings is what I think that they were thinking because they weren't outnumbered a number of times. Like they could pick up these pressures. They just want to make them pay and they never did. Has the league lost its mind on fourth down? Um, no, because I love it.

Isn't it more fun? I don't know. Like the, I guess the miss field goal, uh, miss field goal is so demoralizing to me and there was the Vikings who kicked that long one and they missed it. It was fourth and two and fourth and three. And I think we all are kind of thinking like, maybe they should go for it. And then he missed it that we all 100 percent think they should go for it. But last night is not the example that you want to use if you're going to say that they've gotten too aggressive

because the team that was more aggressive on fourth down, like it paid dividends for the team that won more on fourth down, I guess it paid dividends for them. I guess there's just sometimes where I watch a game where I'm like, I don't care what the go. Yeah. Call is here. Like you might just not be matching up really well and getting a couple of field goals here. Could add up. All right. And so maybe I'm being too harsh because there's also some football math there where. If you look at the non touchdown red zone possessions for me, I'm not going to be

playing football, but I'm going to be playing football and I'm being too harsh because there's also some football math there where if you look at the non touchdown red zone possessions for Minnesota, it's like, okay, yeah, but when they backed them up and then they threw the pick like that, because that next, those points are a product of the previous possession too. So look, they scored nine points and get their asses kicked. So it's not like I'm sitting here, just mining for positives. I guess the last one is the one I was thinking about because we know what Campbell did against Green Bay to run clock. We know the onsides kick where I think in that Buffalo game, like that was

another moment where I go, this guy is so worried about the defense, especially in that game against Allen him dealing. He's like, we've got to figure out a way to get another possession and it's likely not going to be a turnover. But the touchdown drive that made it 31, nine, fourth and two with the Minnesota six with five minutes left, they line up. And I think I, look, they ended up getting the penalty on the hard count, which, you know, at that point

you could just tell Minnesota shattered, like Gibbs is running all over the place. So, but I'm sitting at home going, you're not gonna go up three scores with five minutes left? Like you're actually going to go for it? And they got the penalties, so I don't know. And that was one where I was like, hey, no one should like this one.

No one should like this one. Is that fair? Yeah, but no, you're exactly, you're 100% right about that particular play. However, I think that they weren't actually going to go for it. And all this stuff is connected. Like they went for it on that fourth down against the Packers when they when all conventional wisdom is like, you got to kick it here, right? You got to kick it.

And they actually did go for it, which is why I think that this works, because I think most NFL teams like you guys aren't actually going to go for it. But if you're playing the damn Lions, you're like, hey, they might actually go for it. There is something liberating about playing, I think, for the Lions and for Dan Campbell, where it doesn't feel like there is a choice. We feel surprised when they do kick it, which does,

like, it takes some pressure off. And I think Dan Campbell said in the past some some variation of like how he can sleep at night. And there are certain things, and this could tie into like the conversation about Mayo and other coaches. And there's certain things about being a leader that you see Dan Campbell do that a younger version of me will be like,

it's all bullshit and bluster. Give me a good game plan and get some good players. Stop all this talk about the culture that you're building. But I don't know how else to explain this sports movie that we're watching in Detroit right now, other than his attitude really does permeate the team. And in order to keep that type of culture alive, your actions have to support that.

Sometimes it means you got to do something really dumb every now and then. I point to the Steelers sometimes as an example of this, which it may not be a great example today, but I remember when Ben Rossenberger got hurt early in a pretty bad season. I was like, this is going to match up pretty or work out pretty well for them.

They're going to think they're going to get a quarterback. They traded their first overall pick to get Minka Fitzpatrick. And like, at the time I was like, this is really dumb. But it also is like, this is who we are. We're not a team that, that seizes on the opportunity to fucking stink so we can get a draft. We're a team that's going to try to put the best unit out on the field at any given moment. And you can argue now that maybe they should have got a quarterback. But you also realize that this team never is bad. And it reminds me like the Ravens and the Rams and and the Eagles,

like these teams who have cultures that we that other teams want to replicate. You got to do the shit that other teams don't want to do. I like the Minka story just because when it was happening, you're like, he's available, why would they be trading them? And then it's completely worked out. And the fact that I always think about this with the NBA too, like there's a big difference between the value of a draft pick and the value of somebody who you've actually seen run around and you'd be like, okay, that actually, that

guy's going to play and be productive for a very long time. And then Mink is at a whole nother level. So like if Mink, if it's Patrick's available, I would want to be in that business, even if it means you're losing some of your resources to figuring out the quarterback position, uh, before we get to some of the other stuff, then just NFC wise, you know, I just felt so good about Minnesota after the Packers rematch because both those games played out in similar ways where the Packers were just not in, we can look at the score and pretend, um, but that's

not what we watched for almost seven hours of football and those two students played each other and because of the Detroit injuries, I, like a lot of other people just felt like, look, Minnesota's this, this difficult NFC, because you're not really wrong arguing any of the teams. The Packers probably feel arguing any of the teams. The Packers probably feel fourth out of this group. I do not want to overlook Philadelphia because I just think that style is built to travel

and adapts defensively and everything else. So do you have a sense of who you think's coming out of the NFC? Yeah, I think I feel like an idiot disrespecting the Lions any more than I have up until this point. With the bye, it feels like I have to, and maybe this is prisoner of the moment, I have to lean on the Lions. But for about half the season now, since the Eagles have figured out their defense, I've

been like, look, the Eagles are the most talented, the best team in the NFC. I have a hard time imagining any team beating them. I certainly would knock the Vikings out now, not because I think they were bad. I think they're good enough to bounce back. But winning three games in a row seems really hard for that version of or for this particular team to hope that you don't have one of these bad weeks when game planning is kind of ratcheted up, which I think is one thing we underappreciate for the playoffs is you get a different level

of coaching and preparation. And that's tough for, it seems like, for a player like Sam Darnold, given his short history of good play, to bounce back from. So I don't know that they can pull it off three weeks in a row. I think the Eagles absolutely can win three games in a row, and the Lions need two. So

I think it's, my head is telling me go with the Eagles. They're better up front on both sides and they have a really versatile defense. One of the cool things about looking at the Eagles game log is you can look at the coverages from week to week to week. And there are times where they'll play a whole bunch of four or a whole bunch of man and a whole bunch of two. It's that flexibility and that versatility, which speaks to what I was saying about postseason game planning is,

and they have the horses up front to get pressure without Blitzen and they can play in so many different styles. So it feels like, yeah, I think I hadn't really made a full decision, but I think I'm still going to lean on the Eagles. I think that depends on how healthy Jaylen is. Him still being in concussion protocol is a bit concerning and he's a physical player,

so he's going to get hit in the playoffs. That changes the way that we look at everything, especially their backup. It's messed up ribs too. So it ain't going to be Tanner McKee. Like I changed my pick. If you're trying to tell me Tanner McKee is going to lead him to the, to the promise line, which I think is fair. I think that's a, that's a fair out.

When I was reading Mike Sando this morning, who's, you know, one of my favorite NFL guys to read, but I also have this sick entertainment value out of his pieces, because he talks to so many NFL people that I like getting mad at anonymous quotes, even though these are people that do it, right? I'm just a guy at home taping a pot on Mondays, but there was one, there's always a handful like throughout the season where I'm like, I can't believe somebody who does this for a living would say that. I'm like, I can't believe somebody who does this for a living would say that.

So there was one where it was pretty after the Buffalo disaster and the executives quote was, you know, I would have paid him, but that game was alarming. You're like, so that's the game. So all the other stuff that he's done. And now you're questioning it. I was anticipating an executive saying in Santos piece this morning, but like you got to rethink this whole Darnold thing, um, after last night. You're questioning it. I was anticipating an executive saying in Sando's piece this morning, be like, you got to rethink this whole Darnold thing, um, after last night. But I do wonder if there's, I think this has happened in Lamar a little bit where

there's an entirely different focus in the playoff preparation going up against someone where, you know, we can get to Lamar if you, if you want. Like he's fantastic, but you know, eventually to avoid this James Harden comp, like he's got to step up in these playoff games. And when you start to hear this many years in with maybe another MVP, it's like, yeah, but in the playoffs, like you actually really want to force him to throw. Um, do you, do you have certain things that you notice or maybe you can even tell us a story about going into the playoffs, your years, where it's one thing in the regular season,

but the heightened focus and really feeling like you're gonna show another team something they're not ready for and how that plays out. So I would say for quarterbacks and for Lamar specifically, I think it's more about the, you can certainly be critical for his performance. The reason why I have more confidence in Lamar now is it's the second year in his Munkin offense, which does give him more flexibility.

And the offense is much more multiple than it was in the past. And that's to your point about game planning. When you enter a game, and for Lamar, it was very clear how the strategy to beat him was blitzing. They never really had an answer for it. And so they got into the game and they're like, we haven't had an answer for this all year. We still don't have an answer for it now.

And then he's at the line, he knows your blitz and he knows the play is blown up. He has no option for that. I think that's one of the things that we've seen this year that is underappreciated is how Lamar has been smart about when to change plays and what to do in those situations. And that's the best thing you can do is empower your guys on the field to make those adjustments. The thing that comes to my mind when you talk about playoff preparation, and it's funny because we won this game when I was with the Broncos as a rookie.

We're 13 and three, we had a home playoff game against, we had to buy, so we had a home playoff game against the Patriots. And I've told this story before, and people bring it up every now and then, but we played all year, zero blitz was our strategy. And Bill Belichick kind of cracked the code, and that he used a slot receiver and put them in motion and used him to block the in man on the line of scrimmage.

So I was playing nickel. No, actually I was outside corner at that point. But anyway, sometimes I go into the slot and I would run across and cover that guy. And then that guy would block the man in man on the line of scrimmage. So I was too far away to add on to the blitz. So they would end up getting two of us for one. And so then they would drop back and have the best thing about zero coverage is you either can throw a quick pass or you can throw a deep pass. So like that you have the time, you don't have the time to run intermediate routes. So like strategically

I would as a corner sweep flat foot read, if it's not out right now, it's going deep. And it was a lot easier to play. So we ended up winning that game because, I don't remember who the slot receiver was, Deon Branch or somebody like that. And then the following week we played the Steelers and they did the exact same thing. And their slot receiver was Heinz Ward.

So when Deon Branch was doing this little protection thing, we'd run through him or whoever it was that they had there, Troy Brown or somebody like that, we run through him and still end up getting the pressure. And Champ got that interception and Benjamin Watson ran him down to one. Like it was fine. Then the following week, Heinz Ward did it. He's a fucking linebacker plan. And so he would get to the in man, Alana scrimmage and square them up and block them. And then I was outside and it was a really bad game for me because they were all year long. I was like, all right, they run slants, they run hitch, they run a smoke or

they run a post or they run a go. And I can cover all of those. They were running comebacks and digs. And I was like, hold on, this doesn't work. This isn't what's supposed. You're not allowed to do this, but they could. And so I remember that was at my rookie year. That was the first time I ever remember really feeling like, oh, you can lose games in this league because of coaching, whereas like in college,

it's like, eh, in NFL also, it's like, we're better than them. We'll end up eventually winning. Like the game plan, it isn't that serious. I was like, oh no. There are some things where you just can't do anything. You can't do anything about it. I dropped the interception at a game too.

So you could also be like, hey, just catch the ball when they throw it to you. But I do, that stands out in my mind and I never forget it. And I always get like, I think I had a conversation with Kevin Clark about this a long time ago. And now you see other teams doing it in the game and he always texts me when someone is doing that Belichick model.

I wanna go back to Lamar real quick though because you're watching it with a much higher level of understanding than most of us. I ended up going with Lamar again for MVP. I think Alan is like, if that's your pick, I'm not going to scream and yell about it. Um, but I always, I don't know when it dawned on me, maybe it was back like talking with Dilfer or I was like, I think like that's seven to nine

interceptions is kind of the sweet zone for a quarterback. All right. Cause if you have like none, and I know Brady had some absurd years and Rogers has had just ridiculous years where they're so dialed in and they know everything that's happening where an interception is basically the defender did something he wasn't supposed to do. Right. But with Lamar in this new offense, especially when you go through the

interceptions and the first three of the season weren't even on him. Like, are we, are we looking at somebody that needs to maybe pull the trigger a little bit more? Cause like when I looked at the Caleb stuff, I'm like, this is actually a bad stat for him. This isn't a good stat. This is a bad stat for him, even though it sounds cool in the record books.

I get what you're saying, but then you look at the production, it's incredible. And I would even argue that the fourth interception is not on him either. Like that's man coverage You're not so you sit down in the zone Bateman like you sit down in the zone. You don't you keep running and man Just looks so much worse than the other three because of the coverage and what the options were to that throw but go ahead Yeah, that's fair. I mean you can if you we want to settle on there was one interception. That was Lamar's fault

That's fine. And maybe there were some dropped interceptions somewhere along the way. I'm sure there were, but I can't remember. The fact that when you watch the highlight tape or his low light tape of interceptions, it all is like, damn, they sure let my man down. It's hard for me to be like, hey, this is rough. And if he had low production numbers,

then I would agree with you, but he doesn't. I think I was a Josh Allen should win MVP guy until probably two weeks ago. And I think it was brought to my attention that how much I was leaning on the story of Josh Allen and not the production. And I think what I do on some of these type of decisions is ask myself like, which way do I want to be wrong?

You know, it's like, let's say that you're wrong, which way are you most comfortable with being wrong? And I am very comfortable with being wrong about the MVP putting up the numbers that Lamar has put up this year. I will say that the other thing that jumps out to me this season and last season for the MVP race is I'm reminded how much of the stuff

is out of their control. Because I think we're having an entirely different conversation if the Chiefs aren't the number one seed. Like the Chiefs have lost a few more games in the bills where the one seed and Josh Allen was on the best team.

I think where Josh Allen is running away with MVP. Or even if the Jets were better and last week was a big showdown to win the division and Josh Allen won that game against the Jets. We'd have an entirely different conversation. Like the story has, in order for the story to beat the stats, the story has to be so, so good. And as much as I think we all thought the Ravens were better, the Bills were still projected to win 10 wins and they did pretty well. Or they did incredibly well, but it's not like he just pulled a trash pile to the top of the league. So it's hard for me to feel comfortable if I'm

going to be wrong. The way that I would like to be wrong is, is the one that's supported by the numbers, not the one that's like a lot more about storyline. Yeah. I don't like the, well, Lamar's won it. Like that's not what the award should be. Um, you know, I still have some regrets about my MV vote over Jokic, but I realized that those regrets weren't there when it was happening because the way that season closed with those two players, um, I, I felt fine about the MV vote because it was so tough. It was a really tough vote. And it was a, I think, uh, not as tough last year, but the order for the MVP vote for me

was really tough. Cause I'm sitting there looking at my, my group going, whoever I have fourth here is going to, it's going to feel ridiculous that I have this person fourth. So I don't think that a vote for Josh Allen is necessarily wrong, but then I always ask myself, like if Lamar had never won one, would we be having this conversation? And the fact that they closed strong that record I think can be, I think sometimes like whatever propaganda is being put out there, it'll be like, well, how can you do this when you look at the record and you look at the seeding and all that stuff? And it's like, I don't know, it's not going to be the end all be all for me.

And it's the same thing in basketball. Like if you're a four or five seed, but you're three wins behind, and I'm supposed to vote for like the two seed guy because it sounds better. Yeah, I think the one seed thing would play, this would be a ton of momentum for Buffalo. Both of these guys did incredible jobs carrying teams

that at many times this year felt like the only way they had a chance to win was because of who was behind center. And, you know, it's the same thing for both guys. So they have, they both have ridiculous stats that jump out like Josh Allen having three rushing touchdowns and three passing touchdowns in one game is incredible, but the one stat that really jumps out to me is Lamar Jackson quite possibly ending this season, or not possibly actually ending this season, with the best passer rating in NFL history

is particularly mind blowing to me. I think it was the best or second best anyway, particularly mind blowing to me because, I don't know, a decade ago, probably a little little more we accepted that passer rating was kind of a useless stat because it underappreciated how valuable a quarterback an athletic quarterback is and it is really crazy to me Lamar Jackson is going to have like we brought in QBR because passer rating was such a skewed way of measuring quarterbacks. Lamar Jackson is going to have the best, I think it's very close, it might be tied with

Aaron Rodgers, but it's like the best ever in the history of the league. And that's Lamar Jackson. So passer rating doesn't take into account him running with the ball ever. So all the quarterbacks, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, all those guys, Patrick Mahomes, they've all played football and Aaron Rodgers and Lamar Jackson, I think both have 142 I think the number is and that just blows my mind because the stat was designed to cut against guys like Lamar Jackson and he has mastered that too. Yeah. For a single season, Rogers has, I think two over 120 and then Manning has one.

Um, that's one 21 Lamar was one 19. So, uh, he's also third all time for career passer rating, which again, there's a lot of times there was a bunch of years in there with passer rating where I'd go, what, what is this supposed to tell me? Like, I think that guy kind of stayed. I've never thought that at least with these last few years of Lamar. All right. Let's talk coaches getting fired. Were you surprised Mayo got fired? No, no.

I mean, I was surprised the way that they did it. It seemed like they, it screams, we got a plan and it screams. We already have an understanding of what's going on. We're not going to be able to do anything about it. We're going to be able to do it. We're going to be able to do it. We're going to be able to do it. We're going to be able to do it. We're going to be able to do it. We was surprised the way that they did it. It seemed like they it screams we got a plan and it screams we already have an understanding with somebody. It's like they didn't eat. I.

You got to pick your battles, man. And Gerard Mayo is not one of the battles that I want to fight, given the decisions that he made. I think that there are plenty of reasons to defend coaches who've had the one and done, and I think you can easily mount a serious defense for Gerard Mayo. But the problem is, when you, as you're mounting that defense,

you look at the off-field things, and that's what kills me. I think we've talked a little bit about coaching culture on this show a little bit, but like, the stuff that he says, like throwing the offensive coordinator under the bus saying one Guy's gonna start and then then the other guys are saying Jacobi Brissette is out there to take hits like you wonder why bill Belichick never used to say anything

because you can't fuck things up just by saying on the Cincinnati and like I There are so many things that you can learn about While you're growing on the job. And I think that maybe you could easily make an argument that you should allow Gerard Mayo to continue to learn while he's on the job. But it's a hard guy to mount a defense for when I would argue that you can hire somebody

to coordinate the offense, hire somebody to coordinate the defense in the special teams. One of the most important things for an NFL head coach, the reason why we call them the CEOs of the franchise is to make sure that the messaging is right. Because the messaging of for a CEO and for a head coach have an incredibly outsized impact on the stock price if we're talking CEO or on the culture and morale of the team. That's the one thing that only you can do. Only you. Like the owner, It sounds different coming from the coach than it does the owner,

the GM, the quarterback, the head coach. It means something. You got to focus on that. And Gerard Mayo really did a poor job in managing that. So while I think it's kind of unfair to, to fire a guy after one year on a roster that no one expected was good, it's hard for me to be honest about, yeah, I want it, I want him to be the coach of my team. I was wondering if I can get your support for this.

I was looking through comeback player of the year and historically it's like, Hey, I was hurt and now I'm not. Um, which is fine, but should we change what's possible? Should it be, as I mentioned in the open, why wouldn't it be Bryce Young this year? I don't know who else is better. Who else is in the car? But it's a year to year, but it's a year to year. And that's the way it's looked at.

So like, there was a broadcast, I forget which game, cause they all get lost and all of it. But it was like the JK Dobbins game for the Chargers. It was like, how could JK Dobbins not be comeback player of the year? And I think there's probably some voters going like, oh, yeah, maybe I guess. Let me look at it. Oh yeah, he's been here all this time. Uh, because of the year to year understanding of it, what did you do last year? What did you do this year?

I think voters need to be more creative about it and go who has had a better comeback than what Bryce Young has gone through this season to what he looked like and by the way, beating Atlanta, which, you know, ultimately wouldn't have mattered, but that early window of all the drama, what was going on with Tampa, what was going on with Atlanta, I'm sitting there thinking about it, just going, Bryce Young should win comeback player of the year in twenty four. He's been awesome. But of all the the trophies that are difficult to predict,

didn't Joe Flacco beat out Damar Hamlin for comeback player of the year? Is that right? I think- Yes. Yeah, I mean, the man died and then played again. If you're gonna give it to Joe Flacco over him, I have no prediction. I agree with you.

The way that Bryce Young is playing is really good, but Bryce Young's comeback, not better than DeMar Hamlin's. So maybe Joe Flacco wins it again, I don't know. He had five touchdowns this weekend. Bryce Young, and he's been awesome too. He's no look passing, he's on all types of stuff. It's great. All right, last thing here.

So now that the seeding has played out the way that it has, and we have, I understand the priority of divisions I don't know I mean sometimes I'll just look at this and be like this is not what should be happening if you go through an entire season so now that you've seen the bracket give me your Super Bowl pick before the season started and then where you are now and perhaps undeterred because I know like me you can be a little stubborn with this stuff. Yeah I picked um so I picked Ravens Lions before the season started. I felt different ways about my Ravens pick earlier in the season but I'm feeling pretty good about it right now. I think if I had to choose or if I had the option, I

might switch to the Eagles on the NFC side. Your point about, I don't know if you want to get into this conversation, but I am against devaluing the division championship in any way. I think that oftentimes we don't realize the impact that these decisions end up making until it's too late. And I believe because the division, winning the division matters so much that you build your roster in order to win the division. And while that seems like just a minor thing, I think what that also creates is styles and divisions that are different. And I think that's why the NFC North game, or yeah, you look at the NFC North game,

it looks very, or excuse me, the AFC North game, it looks very different from an NFC West game. And I think that if you change it to like best record, gets the home game. And I get that it doesn't completely devalue winning the division and division games, but it does encourage people to build a roster to win the league more than it does encourage them to build a roster to win the division and anything that would change that I think is a bad idea. If every so often a better team has to go on the road, it sucks if it's the team that you're rooting for, but it doesn't bother me.

I think the year Seattle was under 500, it really bothered me. But it's one year man. Yeah, whatever. Still bothered by it. I haven't gotten over it. There should be something if you're like, hey, but then I was looking at something the other day. It was like teams that have the worst record for the home playoff game, like beyond a certain point or point differential. Like they win. They usually end up winning that game because it's at home.

So I'm fine with you on the division thing. I'm fine with prioritizing the divisions. I just think there's, especially with the seventh team and you know, just adding, adding and continuing that. You're trying to set me off, man. You're trying to set me off. Well, this is what's happening. Like I'm just, you know.

I hate adding, I hate adding an extra game. I mean, an extra playoff team. I hated that. I hate an extra game on the season. Like last week, we all love football. Football's great. Last week kind of sucked, guys, and we know it did. We were like convincing ourselves that we gave a shit

about Mike Williams, or excuse me, about Mike Evans getting three million dollars. We were out here talking about bonuses. Like we actually give a shit about it in order to make so many of these uninteresting games. And that bucks game was actually one of the ones that should matter. Like this is the NFL has been so smart about so many things. And I've never been one that jumped on the train of Raj Kadell's job is so easy and he's just a shield for the league. Like, that's part of his job.

I think his job is challenging. I think running a sports league is hard. And NFL has done an incredible job of keeping the games interesting while increasing profits and addressing the many concerns that are out there with health and safety and all that. They've done an impressive, a masterful job relative to other sports in doing all that stuff and rolling out their digital strategy and getting into the stream, like all that

stuff is fine. What I am concerned, and I think the thing that you could point to them and be most impressed with is they've been aggressive when it comes to tweaking the rules for entertainment and for health and safety and all those things that have made this game the game that it is today. But look around at the other leagues and don't let your desire to make more and more money ruin this beautiful product the same way that we see that it happens in college football, the same way that it's we've seen that it's happened in basketball and like 82 games too much.

And I know that football, we're not going to get to 82 games, but it felt like last week was evidence that 17 games is too much and they want to go to 18. Don't start watering down the product. We're going to end up with all our guys hurt or doing load management and having these week eight teens and 19s and 20s that suck and stink, like, find some other way to increase revenue. Please don't get too aggressive adding this seventh playoff team.

I'm sorry, this is a tangent that bothers me. I know you're gonna run, and so I should just let you leave, but I can't because I think we are aligned and my biggest thing is always when you allow this, understand that in three years you've already set yourself up to be allowing something else that you don't want. I'm not going to make this political, but Mark Cuban was very involved in the election and I was listening to some of his positions on things and I'm thinking like, if I ever interviewed him and granted, he's a lot smarter than me, smarter

on all this stuff, but it's like as an NBA owner, you know, that you are going to the table with the players and you are hoping to get things that are going to set up something that's even more in your advantage the next time around. And the fact that you don't think that like a person with an average level of IQ can like see some of the things that you're saying where you should not want to accept this now because you're just setting yourself up to have something else accepted further on down the line. So when I think about it with leagues and expansion and just trying to get the

product out there as much as possible and seeing the playoff schedule where there's five different options, right? You're going to be watching it on five different providers this first playoff weekend. And what I always thought was that I think the NFL will hope at one point to have it on every night and not care about any of the other leagues. They're just not, and it's not their job to care about the other leagues. It's not, the NFL is not supposed to feel about,

about ruining Thursday night college football the way I loved it when I was in college. People can talk about how sacred Friday night football is for high school. I don't think the NFL is in the business of caring about that. So we can pretend that that's not gonna happen. It probably is going to happen.

There'll be that Friday night game. But what I would say is that the league is probably like, hey, let's get to the point where we think we fucked it up and then we'll adjust. Agreed. And that, it was a bit like Tebow programming when I was at ESPN. It's like, hey, I feel like we're doing too much of this.

Yes, let's do way too much of it. Find out we did too much of it. Let's actually fuck it up and then we'll dial it back. And I think that's what the NFL is certainly going to do. So we can say, what's 17? There was a lot of week 17s back in the day that were terrible too. So you guys should be beating up on the four o'clock window, week 18. All right, you got us, even though we agree, you got us because we know that's true too. But it's like, okay, but what are we talking about when it's like, all right, on this week's lineup, on Monday, on Tuesday, on Wednesday, on Thursday,

holiday Friday, who doesn't want to talk to the family? We've got you covered, we've got Texans Jags, you know? So I think the league would go, let's get to that point where people may get a little sick of us despite zero numbers providing evidence that anyone's gonna be sick of our product, but let's get to that point first before we decide to start slowing the momentum down. I agree with you with the perception and that's just about any business I think is and that's the again, I know that we don't want to get political, but I think most of us can agree that one of the things about capitalism is like, you need regulations to address unfettered capitalism

for like health and safety. Just a basic thing. Like if you could- Should a bill be passed that we can't have football seven days a week? Just in general, my point is we can't, we're in a situation where we're expecting them to go against what is in their financial best interest. Right. It's pointless.

And in order to, and I would argue is like you are, what I fear for the league is not that they're going to make too much money. What I fear for the league is that they are going to degrade their product. And I get right now it sounds stupid to say that anything could weaken football. But I think we could go through the history of all these other sports and feel the same way. Like at a certain point, it sounded really stupid until it doesn't. And so there's art and science and everything.

And this right now is art. This is art. Like how much can you sell us? It's too early. That's too much. But the problem is once you go over that hump, the ball starts rolling downhill. And then it's really tough. Oh, shit. Oh, let's go back to 14 games. That was that was good. Let's go back to 60. Like it's too late then. You don't know when that line is you're going to cross. And I think we're getting closer to it than most of us want to acknowledge. Yeah. But I think the approach is, like I said, they'll go past it. And I do think the pitch of the decline is not a very steep pitch on whatever it is. You're the best. Again,

Dominic Foxworth podcast, his show out wherever you get your podcasts. And of course you see him all over ESPN. Thanks, man. Yeah. Buy tickets to my live show out wherever you get your podcast of course you see them all over ESPN thanks man yeah buy tickets to my live show see you but you want details fine I drive a Ferrari 355 cabriolet what's up I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you could possibly imagine. And best of all kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required. The email address is lifeadvicerr at gmail.com.

So Rudy Kyle, potentially Wargon as always. I am thrilled to be through the holidays, I think. I don't know what, you know how when you get older just time moves faster and faster, that moved incredibly slow. I'm good. That was the longest and I swear to God, LA is different. Maybe it's Manhattan Beach in particular,

but people just shut down like a week prior leading up to it in a way that I don't know that I've ever experienced. And I'm not a great sample because for the most part, all of us kind of work because we're in sports. You just kind of keep working through it all. I think one year I even had Kyle like tape with me Christmas night. Cause I just watched all the games and was like, I'll do 40 minutes on this. Yeah. So I never want to do that to my guy again. Maybe somebody lower on the totem pole one day, but you know, maybe,

maybe we'll never do that again. That's probably a good thing. Uh, and I did go home this year, which was cool. We've already covered, but man, that took a long time. Anybody with me on that? Too much Christmas. Too much Christmas. I mean, I think it was a lock that you traveling home

were like, it just felt like it took forever. I think that's so funny that when you go back to see your people, you're like, God, it just dragged on and on. I feel like you're right about LA though. I mean, like even business, like half these businesses don't even open till 11 a.m. It's like people are just like,

yeah I'll get to it when I get to it. I don't know I just, the pace of things. It seems like they're just happy to take a holiday and stretch it. So I don't know. I think it's the Wednesday, Wednesday thing too because at that point too I had come back to LA. This is over a week ago I think I'm back nine or 10 days.

And then it was oh,, then I have new years. But then when new years lands on a Wednesday, nobody's doing anything Thursday or Friday. And then some guys went out like Saturday and I just was like, you're going out Saturday? Like this is. And granted because of sports and everything, I just don't have a normal schedule that allows the freedom to just random would be like, all right, whatever.

No, I'm top of okayC Boston yesterday, right? So I Don't know, you know how people talk about like the Super Bowl should be on a Saturday Or Monday should be be off That's fine. I think it but I and I remember being as a kid you'd be looking at the calendar and you'd go Wednesday Wednesday, man Awesome lottery make us come in And I remember being a kid, you'd be looking at the calendar and you'd go, Wednesday, Wednesday, man, awesome. Lottery. Make us come in, right? And then there's just no way like, oh, you have to show up the second, no, I don't.

Like we're not doing anything. So granted it all gets tacked on, but I think as an adult, Saturday, Saturday, Friday, Friday, there's probably nothing better than that. But Wednesday, Wednesday is a real disruption. And then, yeah, you're right, Kyle, Friday, there's probably nothing better than that. But Wednesday, Wednesday's a real disruption. And then, yeah, you're right, Kyle. I feel like LA, they get an extra week out here, the lead up to the two weeks, because there's so many industries, like we're not doing anything anyway.

So what's the point? But I know, yeah, which again, you know, when you go to Europe a few times, you kind of walk around going, I think they're doing it right. And we continue to do it wrong, but I know, uh, financially with 25 now official. Kyle, you were telling us about some, some updates. Oh yeah. This weekend, uh, the today, January 6th is the day that everything at the frog room goes up by a dollar and they raised the and it's everything across the board

And they are gonna raise the night prices by two dollars. Just another reason you won't catch me there after the Sun's down. So night prices night prices, yeah What's what we thought what's the core is light gonna be at night at frog room now? dude $2 I don't I don't know what the actual price of Coors Light is. I just know what shows up on the paper and it's like, wow, that's really low. Thanks guys. But I think a Coors Light was like $4.00, $3.00 at Happy Hour.

So I guess it'll be five, which is still okay. Maybe the bottles are a little more like a dollar more, but either way, I'm a Bud draft beer guy and that's $3.00 during Happy Hour And I guess it'll be four dollars during happy hour now but they they were there this weekend with the guy one of the guys wasn't even working they were just like Discussing their attack plan of attack for telling certain people They're like, I don't know how techs is gonna take this when we let him know that I Think he I think he's already near the end of his rope It's still like the cheapest bar around but they're worried about some of the cheaper guys on the lower end there who are just going to

be like, are you fucking serious? So they can't negotiate like a grandfather in thing. Like, Hey, we've been coming here for however long, like we're, you know, like all that, because you know, you've been attracting some new clientele. Obviously, you know, there's even listen, I'm sure I'm still going to be fine. I just, you know, Hey, listen, rent on Hollywood Boulevard. It's not cheap. be fine. I just, you know, hey, listen, rent on Hollywood Boulevard, it's not cheap, you know. Basically just, you know, Scientology is just grabbing up everything they can. So you got to raise prices, you got to raise prices. So it was just funny how nervous they are.

One guy was on his day off and he came in and they were like just game planning across the bar like, what should we tell them? We shouldn't tell them today, right? We'll tell them on Monday. So anyway, we'll see what happens there. Bad news. I'll be fine. But still, it's still like the cheapest bar around. But you just there's some people that just will not abide. We'll see what happens.

You're a golf guy now. So it's you know, less time there. Yeah, correct. Way less time and the Patriots done. So cost not only to spend less money. I'm gonna spend less money. I'm gonna take up golf. Right? That'd be a good joke. Tighten the old fiscal wrench over here. Yeah, we had a pint glass issue one year

where finally we came, everybody came back to school and the place I ran, I was like, there's still more pint glass mixed drinks. I was like, we're wasting too much product. That was pretty nice. Nice. John Tapper, yeah. Yeah. And then the guys, then the owner was like, you have to grandfather in every hockey guy. Every hockey guy, so you gotta keep a list.

So I was like, all right, fine. But you know what's gonna happen? They're just gonna buy all of the pine glasses and they're gonna buy all of the pine glasses. And then they're gonna buy all of the pine glasses. And then they're gonna buy all of the pine glasses. So you gotta keep a list. So I was like, all right, fine. But do you know what's going to happen? They're just going to buy all of the pine glasses for everybody else. And that's exactly what happened.

It was a good run. People were motherfucking me though. They're like this fucking UVM guys here is messing up our St. Mike's bar. Right. He's choosing who gets what. Well, the other day they were telling me that they have a list of guys who are assholes that get warm beer glasses instead of the cold ones. It's like, yeah, that guy,

yeah, I can't wait to tell him he's a warm glass guy for sure. I was like, wait, you guys have people that you choose not to give cold glasses to? They're like only when they built it up over a long period of time. So I thought that was funny. I respect that. When there was a wing place up in Vermont called New England Wings, which anyone that, you know, that'll relate to a few people. And for whatever reason, a bunch of us decided to go there to pick them up instead of get them delivered. Because we were like, why don't we just pick them up? It's not that far away. Road trip.

You don't have to wait. Get the cars going. Let's go. So we were just talking to the dudes that were working there and they had a do not deliver list posted next to the phone and it was like right there so you could see it and they didn't care. It wasn't the most corporate setup ever. And we were like, can we look at that?

He goes, yeah, whatever. It was like, do not deliver. Answers door naked. It was like, do not deliver. And they would have the address and they'd be like, never deliver, never go alone. And it was like last time asked delivery driver to jump on his stomach. So that'll get you warm. My class.

All right, let's kick off 25 here. Although wait, I guess we already did a pod, right? We have to get to that. We have to get to that. We have to get to that. We have to get to that. We have to get to that. We have to get to that. We have to get to that. We have to get to that. We have to get to that. We have to get you warm. High class. All right, let's kick off 25 here.

Although wait, I guess we already did a pod, right? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, so, hey, look at us cranking away. All right, navigating creepy men as a female trainer. Uh-oh, here we go. Player comp, five, 10, female woman. I would say I'm in the 95th percentile of females that work out, 24 years old,

have been lifting for the last four years and currently training for a marathon next June. Let's get into it. Love the phrasing. I recently became a personal trainer and dynamic stretch specialist at my local gym. We'll leave it out. I love my job, but I've come to realize

that building a clientele and establishing a successful business is much more challenging than I initially expected. I work full-time hours, so when I don't have a client session, I walk around the gym, connect with members, offer complimentary services in the hopes of selling them on personal training or dynamic stretch packages. One member, let's call him George, is a 49-year-old man, that's old, that I met on the pickleball courts. I sold them a package of four dynamic stretch sessions

up front and after booking we exchanged numbers of coordinate scheduling. A few days later, George began texting me about of things unrelated to work, asking me what I am up to outside of work hours and sending me random videos of things that he's doing such as attending a basketball game or video of him at a bar. Oh man, this is rough, rough content.

There needs to be some sort of like meme content approval course that older guys should take where it's like, this is, it's a bit like the insurance ads. It's commercial, yeah. Yeah, like this is a worst sending. Nope, nope, not doing that, nope. Cause just whatever happens to the chemistry of your brain. You just, you get older and your thresholds for what is sendable, just, it's a real wide net.

Start sending it. Cause then I'll be on the younger side of something and I'll get content from it. And then I'll be like, oh, I have to, you know, and I've even been ready to send something to Sarutti. And then I go, I don't think this is worth it. And then I'll just delete it. Michael Scott forwarding email. Did you get the one about the monkey?

Please consider it. All right, so the video of him at a bar in Nebraska, like he likes you, okay? So that's clearly established and he's seeing where that's going. He later then began calling me nicknames over texts, none of which he has ever called me in person. Last through this weekend, George texted me the location of the bar he was

headed to and asked me to meet him there with a message saying drinks on me. From here, I decided to go to my female manager and ask how I should proceed. She shockingly asked me if this is where I want to draw the line with my clients, suggesting the situation with George really isn't all that bad and wouldn't be worth losing a client over. I replied, yes, this is where I want to draw the line with my clients. From there, my manager helped me craft a text to George, letting him know that I take my job seriously and don't engage in any client relationships outside of the gym.

George responded relatively well. However, I'm now currently trying to follow up him to book his last two sessions and he's completely ignoring my texts. When I see him at the gym, he essentially runs away from me. I'm a little disappointed because I am new in my career and I don't get paid unless I service his sessions.

This puts me in a very interesting mindset of should I not have drawn the line? Should I have played nice with George, ran his sessions, kept him as a long-term client, drawn the line maybe later? I spoke with a few older female coworkers and they confronted the fact that this is kind of the game you have to play to have a successful career

as a female personal trainer. I understand that some clients buy sessions for the attention of the trainer, which to some degree I'm okay with, you're paying me, but I do have boundaries. But where should I draw the line and how should I handle further situations to not only benefit my career,

but also not feel disgusting as a person for further context. I do have a boyfriend as, and he has as supportive as you possibly can in this matter, he wants me to do well in my job and trust me, he's also a huge fan of your podcast a hundred percent why I'm aware of this life of bisection. All right. Um, yeah, I mean, this is pretty straightforward. It's probably why I don't think I've ever asked a female woman trainer for any sessions

for fear of this exact thing. Cause you start thinking like, Oh, that trainer is kind of cute. Like maybe I should buy some sessions from her. And then you're like, now you're the Dick. So don't do that. Although, you know, whatever again, now you're boxing her out because you're, you got your own thing going on. Yeah.

I don't know about that many sessions from dudes. Totally fair. Now that I think back at it, like, I don't need this. Um, yeah, I think some people could listen to this and, and they wouldn't be wrong for being completely stern about it being like, this is your profession. This is what you want to do and no one should be crossing these lines. And I think that would be really nice if that was the reality of the world you lived in, but it kind of isn't. And even though it's really disappointing to hear you tell a story about some of

the older female coworkers kind of going, this is kind of the game. It's kind of the game a little bit. older female coworkers kind of going, this is kind of the game. It's kind of the game a little bit. And so he also have to, I think something that should make you feel better though. The fact that he's kind of ducking you a bit could also mean that he drinks a ton and he's sending you these videos and he's asking you out and you're shooting it down or not responding all the time. And so it's not that he's mad at you.

It's that he's dealing with post weekend shame. Yeah. Yeah. And he, right, Kyle? I see it. I think there's probably something like this. This part of our explanation should help you feel a little bit better about it.

That he knows he's being weird and now he doesn't really want to have to touch. So it's not even about paying for the sessions. Yeah, you think so? Especially when he's like, he's, you know, he tells me all these nicknames over text that he never, like when he's, he's just like kind of buttoned up in person and he's, you know, trying to be cool. And then he gets, he gets a little swing oil in him and he's just like, he's coming up with ideas and he's sending them right away. It's not part of a plan.

It just pops in his head and he fires it off. I think that totally makes sense. He's like an outgoing texter but clams up in person. I totally see it. Yeah. Hey cakes, that Applebee's again. What say you? Right.

M'lady. Why do I love Hooters? I'll give you? Right. Mulady. Right. Why do I love Hooters? I'll give you two reasons. The boobs and the hot wings. I think there's some dudes that don't do well in these kinds of spaces,

and I'm not saying they're the same thing, but it's like, some dudes just can't be touched and then think of it in a professional way. Maybe it's something in his brain isn't working. It's not the same, but strip club guys that love strip clubs, and it's just like, it's kind of the gig, man. I don't think she's going to go out with you after her shift, but you can't tell that guy that.

Or you can, and then he gets in it, and he just, I don't know, the receptors are firing, and he just thinks it's something else. I think there's some spaces where just guys can't just do the right thing or they can't think the right way about it. There's just there's no way. Like she touched me. What do you want me to say, bro? So I could see that mixed with maybe a big drinking guy thinking about those sessions while he's at Applebee's doing the dollar marks or whatever it is. So what does she do though? Does she approach George or does she kind of just let it die out or whatever

and just let him be embarrassed by himself? Like does she pursue this business again or is it just kind of a learning experience, move on and maybe don't be as harsh the next time. Or I don't, I feel like every single time, like this is obviously going to happen to you. It sucks, but like every time it's going to be different. So like it's whatever your comfortability is, I feel like. And I think if she had more clients, she wouldn't worry about, she would just be like, oh, fucking George.

If she had a way bigger book, she'd be like, all right, I'll get him when I get him. But maybe it's because he was one of her first 10 people since she got the job or whatever, she's like, I gotta make money, I have to perform the session. So I think if she had more people, it would just be like, all right, well, that's a weirdo.

If he ever collects on those two, great, I'll get paid. But maybe it's because it's early on, she's feeling like everyone means more. I don't know. Yeah. I understand what you're saying. Cause it's like, I think some people, let me just say it. So we get in front of it now, maybe want to give Kyle hard time about the comparison. I already got personal I addressed that.

Right. Right. And being a stripper because they're not the same thing. I do not know that. Right. But there's physical contact at both sometimes. So, you know, that's a reach, but, um, you're stretching yourself. What am I paying you for?

Let's just, let's just get out of that part and come to a conclusion here. Cause it's tough to go like, cause I, as I was reading the email, I'm like, you're just going to have to, with certain clients and your radar is going to get better and better at this where you're going to have to let them know that you have a serious boyfriend and that should be enough of a deterrent for a lot of people. It is. I mean, granted, there's always the dickheads out there that are just undeterred for you have a serious boyfriend and that should be enough of a deterrent for a lot of people. It is. I mean, granted there's always the dickheads out there that are just undeterred for life

and it's a really frustrating person to have any kind of work dynamic with where you're just like, do you not get it? So I mean, that's going to happen to you probably in any walk of life in the pursuit of relationships, right? Like you just access, I mean a lot of times you just think of like, why is this happening? It's like, well, it's happening at work because it's the only access that this guy has to any interaction with any women ever. And you know, some dudes are just fucking weird and they lose their minds about it. They see any sign of friendliness as something to follow up on whether it's his own deal or what he's going through or whatever it is about a lot of men

that just socially know they have a hard time with it. So this is going to be part of the gig and you're going to figure it out and then to drop the immediate, Hey, I have a boyfriend, you know, can make you look like you're a little presumptive with, with what the dynamics going to be. So that's like, that's not always a win there, but for this one specifically, remember this. And I think this is always important. He's the one fucking up. Okay. You shouldn't feel bad about anything. You're going to lose other sessions as well. And so even though it'd be nice to get paid for these other two, in the grand scheme of

what you're going to be doing here, those two are not going to change your year. Those two paid sessions, you're going to do it with somebody else. And yeah, that is part of the game. Being friendly, walking around the gym, hitting people up, what are you working on? What are some of your goals? And there's always going to be a guy there that at some point will test it and see, well, is there any interest? And you'll get better at kind of, you know, reading that and knowing how stern you want to be in a friendly way. You'll unfortunately have to kind of develop that for the random guy that, that

messes it up for all the other people that are just normally, you know, going about it their day and trying to use your services and everything. But remember this, like there's nothing through what you've explained to us that you should feel bad about. Nothing. I mean, he's the guy. And I actually think with these dropping weird nicknames and sending you videos of him at a bar and everything, he's probably getting a nice little buzz and being like, you know what and I'll hit her up and see what she's up to. And then he's sober and he's trying to.

Got my good shirt on today. Yeah. Come on. She's got to see this. Yeah. Doing some leg extensions going, I feel like such an idiot, you know? And at 49 too, he's definitely in that, that range of kind of start losing your mind if you're single.

Weird social media behavior. Yeah. Yeah. So in my one last attempt to dig myself out of this stripper hole, I have a friend who is a. We know what you meant. Well, I know, but I just want to do that for you. She has the same problems. So that's all.

Right. Here's a quick one for Saruti. Five 11, 180 PRs,, two 25 bench five 20 mile, 335 yard drive on top tracer. Cool. Congrats. All right. Went to Fulham Ipswich game in London today.

One of the guys behind me was calling the ref who made a few suspect calls of 50 year old Virgin all game. It's good game. Two, two, I think it ended, uh, didn't catch the whole thing, but yeah, listen, Virgin is, I feel bad though now because I, people think that like I made this up and I don't want to take credit for it. My buddy did this. I did not do this. So like, I don't this up and I don't want to take credit for it my buddy did this I did not do this so like I don't want

that I don't want the credit you could just credit my buddy Jeb well we call him Jeb his name is Jeremy credit him for the virgin thing he also did that probably drunkenly and it worked out pretty well but I need to stop getting credit for this because I'm getting way too much of it and I don't get you have the virgin slayer nice yeah well the reason we call him Jim, the most dude thing. I guess. Fuck. Kyle tough.

Yeah, just relax. What are you doing? Oh man. Uh, okay. All right. Let's do an altercation. There's plenty of these to pick from 30 year old male.

No gym stats worth sharing. My wife who is notorious for feeling bad for others is stressed out about her handling of the situation. So I'd like your thoughts on it. Kind of a long story, but hopefully worth the read. She and I, we're from Philly, went to New York last month to see the outsiders on Broadway. We had pretty good seats.

There was a big group of people scattered around our section that were clearly on an organized trip. Two guys about my age, remember he said he was 30, from that group are sitting behind us before the show even started on an organized trip. Two guys about my age. Remember he said he was 30. From that group are sitting behind us before the show even started. This was a 2 PM Saturday show. They were passing around a flask and talking about taking shots. Definitely drunk.

The show begins, they're talking the whole time saying things like, I can't believe we're seeing the outsiders right now on college football Saturday. I'm a huge sports fan too, so I get it. And nonstop complaining and talking about how the show stinks. Intermission comes and the two guys go to the bar. So my wife asked someone from their group what the event is. The lady said they're from, I'm not even going to say where, just, let's just leave it out, but the lady tells them where they're from.

They're a small company. Every year the president flies the company and their families to New York to do a weekend in the city for the holidays. She tells us the two guys sitting behind us aren't Broadway guys and that we can tell them to be quiet if they're being too loud. Second half starts and the guys are talking loudly

to people four seats away from them, whooping and hollering and being condescending about the show. This is a serious show. Someone from their group came back to her seat a few minutes later and they started yelling to her, Rachel name changed, sit down and making a scene out of it. So eventually Rachel, my wife and I all turned around at the same time and politely asked them to be quiet. The guy behind me then starts to give me a hard time telling me my seat back is

jamming into his shins and asking me to sit up, to which I tell him the seats don't recline. He then says, wow, so you're gonna shush me, but then make me uncomfortable? This guy sounds awesome. The guys talk to each other more before one of them left before the show ended. The whole time I was worried about this guy

doing something like dumping a drink on my head. After the show, my wife and I were disappointed with how distracting we were given that we paid so much of the tickets. I've been excited to see it. She had this idea and I executed it since I'm in sales and have all the tools needed. I researched what the company did

and where they're from and found Rachel on LinkedIn. I got her email and also found the president of the company who wasn't standing near us and emailed them both saying they shouldn't bring these guys in next year's company event because they'd rather be home watching college football and that we were disappointed since we were so distracted by them the whole time. The president emails me back instantly apologizing for those guys behavior asking for my Venmo to reimburse me for the tickets. He sends me $724 that night, which we were thrilled about. We thought that was the end of it, but the president then emails me a few days

later saying he fired one of the guys and gave the other a written warning. I had no issue with this since they were clearly jerks, but now my wife feels bad. Should I feel bad? Did we do the wrong thing? Thanks for reading. You might have done the wrong thing. I don't know. Kyle.

I mean, part of it, it's like, those are the guys who were ruining the assemblies back in high school and, you know, they never stopped doing that type of shit, it seems like. And maybe this was a big lesson, but I don't know. It's like, guy was a little too drunk, a little too rowdy, you know, probably felt like he had to go to this thing, made a bunch of bad choices, you know, but it's not like he spends his time ruining people's. Trip into the city as a hobby like you would be felt like you had to be here it was like it's a bad look if i meet you guys after i don't know but like a lot of bad a lot of bad choices and maybe some unfortunate circumstances let up to this he lost his job i don't know i know. I think that's, I think that's shitty. At the same time, you know, in those situations, it's like, how mad can I actually get at this guy who's just never going to stop? And it's like, he's finding new ways to, to like bother me and everyone around me. And he's clearly the bad guy. So maybe, maybe he'll take this

as a lesson. I don't think he really will. I think he'll be just be like, I got boned and he'll still be the guy disrupting assembly. So I don't know. I would have minded my own business, but I don't know. I think, I think the guy had it coming and maybe you're like, damn, which didn't go that far. Just a tough situation. I, I agree. I mean, I think what it would have just been easier to just say, shut up Virgin and then move on with your day, you know, like you had a bad experience in a play. You had to clean the drink off of yourself that he spilled on you.

Yeah. Cause I agree. Like, you know, you want, you want this guy to feel some sort of repercussion, but then it's like, oh man, like that. I just like, I kind of just ruined this guy's life a little bit. Maybe the Hooter guy though is a big problem cause there.

And it was like, this was a long time coming. Like that's the thing is maybe you did everybody else a favor and everybody else at the company is like, this guy sucks. And you know, here's the thing too, is I feel like you don't really fire someone off of like one incident that you got over email. Off of a stranger. Yeah.

Yeah. Like there probably were some priors here if we're being honest, and maybe that gives you some solace. I don't know. I think you guys are right about that. It's one of the things that was, cause I, I'll admit as I first processed that I didn't love it and then you start thinking, like I doubt the president of the company is like, well, he's number one in sales. He's been our top guy for three years,

but Broadway is serious business. Todd Packer over there, right? Yeah. Rules are rules, yeah. He's the reason they don't have a Christmas party anymore, but we're giving him another chance. Why does everybody keep saying that? I, I mean, he emailed the president.

So clearly you were looking for something. Getting the 700 bucks back is nice. Cause again, these shows are pretty serious. It's hard to get tickets. And if you do get tickets, it's expensive. And for the most part, everybody knows the deal. Like you shut up. It's, it's this intimate experience.

It's the theater. It's a little bit different. So if somebody's doing this, the two guys, like, you know who these guys are. And I've probably been in a couple of situations when I was younger. I was like, I'm not a great fit right now for whatever this is, whatever this experience is. I'm not mature enough for this. Yeah.

Right. And then you're ruining it for all these other people. So I think it's great that you got your money back and you went as far as to like fine Rachel, and then you, you added to that, you went to the president. So you were clearly pretty pissed off about this. I personally would not have gone that far. And I'm not telling you like I love all of it here, but I think Sarudy and Kyle's original point

is probably the one to keep thinking about. Because if your wife is upset that it's gone to this level, which I can understand her part of this, right? This guy had to have been doing stuff prior to, I would think. Yeah, you didn't frame a guy for murder. You just told somebody exactly what happened in a kind of harmless way. If it's the only reason the guy was fired, that seems excessive. But the fact that one was fired and the other was suspended or

warned or whatever tells you that the guy that was fired to your point probably had a track record. Yeah. Right. Um, but I don't know. Do you think you guys would do that? Do you think you would find the president of the company and then email them about something like this just because it has to be worse.

It'd have to be like, you'd have to like insult my wife and there have to be a lot of things that would go on. I don't think just being rowdy would be the thing. This isn't to not justify this person being mad. I'd be pissed. And I don't know. I don't know. Maybe in the moment I would do that, but I don't see, it'd have to be worse for me to email the president of the company. So if somebody insulted your wives and said, like something in a public place, you would research them.

I don't even think I've ever asked to see someone's manager before, you know what I mean? I don't think I've ever been like, I'm just gonna get the next rung of the ladder and hold them accountable. I don't think that's in my game, so I don't think so. Yeah, I'm not mad about it because I think the guy probably sucked and he clearly sucked here and You know, don't be there'll be a young guy Getting banged up at the theater and then talking the whole time and the fact that he was like, oh well

I'm drunk and you're right and I've been a dick Dick, but I'm going to try to find something to come back at you with the seat thing. You know, you're just going to make, Oh, well, your seats are too close. Well, I didn't, I'm not an architect, man. It's not, it's not my fault that yeah, I don't know. Those guys obviously sucked. So neutral rating So neutral rating. Neutral rating.

You should be able to find a way to sleep at night. Yeah, I wouldn't beat yourself up over it. It's probably had it coming. Well, now you know what kind of power you got, dude. With great power, great responsibility. Could be the first day of the rest of that guy's life too. Right, really getting used to it. Yeah.

It's like, you know what? Imagine having to explain that. Be like, hey, you got fired? How? Well, if you've seen the outsiders, sucks. First of all. Yeah. That's a tough way to go out. Okay. That'll do it for us. For life advice. Thanks to Vorogon. Thanks to Kyle. Thanks to Sarudy. Make sure you check out our YouTube page and of course, subscribe to the Rhonders Hill Podcast from Spotify. Must be 21 and older, present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org forward slash chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24-7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPENY in New York.