The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Nick Saban’s Legacy and Who Will Replace Him at Alabama With Bruce Feldman

Episode Date: January 11, 2024

Nick Saban officially retired from coaching on Wednesday with arguably the best résumé of any college coach. Ryen is joined by Bruce Feldman of Fox Sports and The Athletic to discuss what went into Saban’s decision, his legacy, and who will be given the task to follow in his footsteps at the University of Alabama. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out theringer.com/RG to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Host: Ryen Russillo Guest: Bruce Feldman Producers: Cliff Augustin, Steve Ceruti, and Kyle Crichton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Breaking news, Nick Saban has retired from Alabama. What is next and how amazing was this run? We're going to spend some time with Bruce Feldman, who has more on this developing story, a bonus edition of the Ryan Russillo podcast. ski slope, but dish soap, definitely doable. Sunshine, that's no. A bottle of wine, yeah. And a snow day, again, no. But blueberry muffins with the delicious crumb topping, total yes. Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol in select markets. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. We have to do it. He's the greatest coach in the history of college football. Nick Saban

retires today from Alabama. And the number one guy I'd want to talk to from the athletic and Fox Sports, it's Bruce Feldman. He has a piece up now on what is next for Alabama. Let's start at least with the news from today. Did you get a sense of this from anybody? Was this kind of lingering as it broke this afternoon? Give us your own timeline of understanding the story. Yeah, I did some TV today, Ryan. And when I was leaving the studio, it was around 11 o'clock Pacific time. I got a text from somebody that said, be on the lookout hearing that Saban is retiring tonight. And that kind of

surprised me. And then I texted somebody else who said they had heard something about him stepping down. They didn't say it was tonight. They didn't know. They thought something could be imminent, was what I was described. So when I got home, I reached out to somebody who's not a coach, but somebody who knows Nick Saban really well. And that person said they hadn't heard that, but they also said it wouldn't surprise me. And then we started talking about it and it got me thinking back to something. Last week was the Rose Bowl. And after the game, I was standing by the Michigan locker room and Saban had came down the ramp in the Rose Bowl. He had just finished his post-game press conference.

And he had to stop because there was like a cluster of people, you know, right outside the locker room. And when he did, you know, there's a bunch of people he saw and he kind of turned his head and he gave one of these like pageant waves where he like kind of did this. And he smiled. It was kind of an awkward smile, but he did. And I just remember thinking that was kind of a weird look on his face or whatever. And in retrospect, you know, when I thought about it today, I was like, I wonder if he knew at that time this is going to be the last game I ever coach him. And then kept on trying to see if I could get it confirmed, because obviously Nick Saban retiring is something you really have to get buttoned up and could not get out in front of it. something you really have to get buttoned up and could not get out in front of it chris lowe had retweeted something um and then a couple of minutes later was able to get somebody who said yes it is

true it's happening and here we are so you know when it when it happens like whenever it was going to happen it was going to feel like a surprise i think this is one of the best coaching jobs he's done um really and look i don't know that it's the number one coaching job but when you looked at the struggles they had a quarterback and then the texas game and then really the south florida game you're like wait is this actually going to get ugly here um and it's a bit like shorting the sun where somebody decides like oh you know i think this is i think this whole thing's you know he's done it's not going to happen i saw a lot of that i don't need to name names um and i'm like well can we can we at least give this guy the benefit?

Can he go 7-5 before we think the game has passed him by? And then they're in overtime for a chance to play for a national championship. And they beat Georgia when there's not a long list of teams. So the fact that he turned this thing around this season, it's like, okay, was this a job where he was already starting to feel like uh maybe maybe maybe we're not it and then they they find their way into the playoff like i know you had something to say so there's not a good segue so just say it yeah i think that this was one if not the best coaching job because of how much they improved you go back to that texas game you're talking about

they couldn't protect uh at all in that game that game. They had a true freshman left tackle who got exposed. And it wasn't like they had the Devontae Smith, Jalen Waddell crew outside. This is probably the worst group of receivers he's had in a long stretch. And they didn't have an elite, truly elite, typical Alabama running back back there either. So it's not surprising that they struggled early. I mean, to the degree they did. I mean, then the following week, they really had their hands full with USF. Then look, credit to him. Credit to Tommy Reese.

They figured out a good game plan. Jalen Milrow was their real only playmaker. And, you know, they did some damage on people. Their defense has always been good. It wasn't great, but it was good. And, you know, looking back at it, that comment where Saban said, hey, we failed the midterm, but this isn't the final. He was right because they got a lot better. And the fact that they did beat Georgia and he goes out on winning the SEC title and making the playoff, the game definitely didn't pass him by.

I just think the game and the way it is, the college football calendar is so chaotic. I think it's just a lot for anybody, much less somebody who's 72 years old to, you know, how much longer does he, does he want to do this? Does he want to go to ESPN and be on college game day or whatever is going to be next for him? We'll see. I did hear, you know, like an hour or two after the story came out that he had thought about trying to have this announcement yesterday being Tuesday, as opposed to Wednesday. And the weather around the country was so bad that some players couldn't get flights to get back. So the team meeting that he wanted to do it in front of the team got pushed back to Wednesday afternoon as opposed to Tuesday afternoon. So there's a lot of stuff here that was very curious in timing because we know from our reporting that Nick

Saban had actually talked to some receivers coaches about the vacant receiver job there. And so he was doing that, you know, at the same time was going to tell his team that he was retiring. It's all like, it leaves you with a lot of questions, to be honest. And I'm sure some of this, he will explain at least to some degree down the road. Yeah, because as soon as I heard about it,

I thought, okay, I love the guy. All right? So I'm biased. I always loved his dealings with us. There was always these funny stories. I think he actually has way more personality than people give him credit for. And if you got him in the right mood or the stuff that he'd want to talk about, he was really engaging. But I think it's hard for people to kind of see

through the veneer at times, like, oh, he's this gruff kind of old school guy. I was lucky that I had the access that I had to him while I was at ESPN because we'd usually see him twice a year at least because we'd go do a game there and then he would come up when they would do kind of the SEC car wash.

And I just really liked him. I got to know some people that'd be on the staffs at different times. They would tell me these different stories. I'd always be like addicted to it. Like, give me another saving story. Um, I remember like when the spread and the speed and the pace of everything was taking off and they were still probably thought of as like more of a traditional offense and it was working for him. I remember there was a time where he did a press where he was like, are you sure? Like you, you really want us to do this? This is what you want college football to be? Like, is that what you want to do? Because like, we'll do this too. And then they do it and they're successful with it because that's what was going to work. And more recently, when he started talking about

all the different topics that we've spent hours on with college football, how much it's changed, whether it's the NIL, whether it's conference realignment, whether it's the television part of this, where it's just, it's a very different sport in a very short amount of time. I feel like there may have been hints, but I don't know if I'm just playing the result of, well, he announced he's retiring because he's probably just sick of what this is becoming. Because for traditionalists, I can't imagine that they love what the product is. And maybe at 72, he goes, look, I just got done with one of the best coaching seasons I've ever had been in the national titles conversation pretty much every season I've been here since 07. So what else could I possibly do? Like maybe I could wait it out to win a national title. I don't know the answer other than I was wondering if

there's chances you felt like he had given hints to us without us realizing what those hints were. Ryan, the things you talk about, he was, he is really engaging when the format is right. You know, at SEC media days, he would often have a smaller informal gathering with a handful of writers. And it was almost like he was out on the driving range, getting warmed up of what he was going to say on the main stage. And he would, he, he was, you know, he's incredibly intelligent. He's also, I think, he's been a

great recruiter for a long time. And I don't think you get to be at that level without being really engaging and being able to relate to a lot of different people from a lot of different places at a lot of different points of their lives. And he's really good at that. And anybody who's ever been around some Saban players, and we've worked with a bunch, I work with one now and Mark Ingram, you know, they are, they, they love him in a way that is different than you would expect from just player to coach. Cause they have so much admiration for him for what he means to them and how he's helped them and get through it. But I think, you know, like a lot of coaches and we know, we know some of the same football coaches. I think some of the stuff, some of the grinds, some of the lunacy that comes with this particular

sport, I think can, can get to them at different moments. So if you catch them at a different time where they're venting or they're saying something and be like, yeah, that person is giving hints that they're, they're ready to go to the NFL or they're ready to, to, to bail out of this thing. And I think what you had with Saban to a large degree though, is so much consistency, you know, like Urban Meyer, who I work with at Fox, you know, depending on the moment, you could get a wildly different reaction, you know, of whatever. And we saw that 15 years ago when he was the head coach at Florida for one day. And then all of a sudden he was like gone. And then he's back, you know, like, I think with Saban, a lot of this stuff that he often is the conscience of college football.

And it's a, it's a sport that has a really sorted, you know, thought process. Has no conscience right now. Yeah, really. And he's the closest thing we have to it. So I think sometimes he uses the bully pulpit. And sometimes I think he tries to nudge people to, to, to really carry the water for maybe a larger argument. And, you know, again, I don't know the answer to this, but I don't feel like, you know, people for 10 years were saying, okay, now Alabama is going to slide. And now Alabama is going to, you know, people have caught up to him or it's this or it's that. And he outlasts all of them, you know, Dabo Sweeney and all these, you know, other programs that have come and gone. And I think, you know,

at this moment for him, you know, I look at it and I was like, okay, you know, how much more if you're him, do you, you don't need to prove anything else. You're already considered by everybody who I think is paying attention, the greatest coach in the history of the sport. And you did it at a time where it wasn't like you could have 200 guys on scholarship to keep them from everybody else. You did it in the age of the portal. You did it in the age of NIL. And what, to me, what was the most remarkable thing about him maybe of all was that he was able to juggle coaching staff, you know, overhauls constantly. And instead of like, you know, you see Dabo lose, you know, Brent Venables and these offense coordinators in the program, you know, falls out of the top 10 and starts reeling. You see other coaches lose their guys. Nick Saban just kept on getting better. And I think you said that

a couple of minutes ago about just his evolving when Lane got there and they went to a different style of offense and they thrived in that. And so, again, I just think it's a remarkable career and legacy he had and has. And I'm curious to see, he's been good on TV when he's done those playoff things at ESPN. And I suspect that's probably where he'll head next. So let's talk about what is next, at least for Alabama, because it's very easy to forget post Gene Stallings in the title in 92, that it was Mike DuBose four and seven, three and eight in his last year. They brought in Dennis Franchione who left for A&M after two years. Although I would

say, I don't know that Bama fans at the time were super bummed out about it. Then they go to Mike Shula. There's a Mike Price timeline. You're missing the Mike Price in there briefly. Right. So, you know, you can sit there and say, well, it's Bama. It's the best job because they probably take it as seriously as anybody else. But the reality of this sport is you're due for some lean years.

So what's next for them? That's the big question now. I mean, the story I have out now is who we think they're going to target and really consider. But this is, you know, there's a handful of guys who Saban has this huge coaching tree. And there are guys who worked in Tuscaloosa, who, you know, look at Sark. Steve Sarkeesian, really, I know, has impressed the people. You know, Greg Byrne was the AD there, still is. Thought very highly of Steve Sarkeesian. Well, Sark goes to Texas, takes over for Tom Herman, beats Alabama in Tuscaloosa, gets him to the playoff. He's got a really good job. I mean, he's got arguably as good a job

in terms of the recruiting base, the resources, what he has right now in terms of coming off the playoff season. But beyond that, I think he's also in a situation where he replaced Tom Herman. You go make the playoff, even if it's a 12-team playoff every year, but you don't win the national title for five years, they're probably not firing you. You go to Alabama, you're the guy who replaced Nick Saban. That is, in all caps, guy who replaced Nick Saban. Good luck. I mean, it wasn't easy to replace John Wooden. We all know, you know, that was a struggle. And this is the magnitude of the shadow of him. So, you know, for me on that one, the guys they're going

to look at all have some kind of like entanglement or some question mark. Dan Lanning done a really good job in two years at Oregon. He was a GA under Nick Saban, has coached in the SEC, also at Georgia. He's got a huge buyout with Oregon, but it's way more than the, from what I'm told, way more than the $20 million that's actually just on the contract with Oregon. There's more to it. All right. So just to repeat that, because that's flying around all day today that it's $20 million. You believe it's way beyond that. Yeah. From what I'm told by, uh, someplace that kicked the tires on, on Dan Lanning as a possible coach, that it's actually more than that,

considerably more than that. And also, um, you know, whenever my conversation with Dan Lanning have been, you know, he's got a relatively young family. You know, I think he's got three boys that are, you know, somewhere between like seven and 12 or 13. I think they really like it there. He's also kind of treated like the king of, of, of Oregon in, in Eugene. He has a great connection to Phil Knight and they've got NIL figured out. They have a real good chance to come in and win the, win the big 10 in their debut season, They have a real good chance to come in and win the Big Ten in their debut season, make a run at a national title. And I'm not saying that there's a way better recruiting base if you're in Alabama than you are at Oregon. And nobody's won a national title at Oregon.

Obviously, Chip and Mark Helfrich each played for one, but they didn't win it. It's not like what Alabama's history is. But at the same time, now you go into the SEC, it's the, it's the same deal kind of with Sark. You are following, you are following the goat. And also you have a family that's going to be in that fishbowl. Is that really the better situation? Or do you be the first guy who really shows real loyalty, you know, to Phil Knight there in terms of, you know, Mario left and before him, it was Willie Taggart bolted. You know, now you got Dan Lanning with no real ties there. You know, he's not from there or anything like that, but they've committed to him. And I think that, you know, he's the guy a lot of people think is the logical one, but I, you know, and maybe it does happen because everything that I heard today from sources was that the Alabama players were told in that meeting that they were going to try to have somebody in the pipeline in 72 hours. That is a really fast

search. So that leads me to believe that Greg Byrne has somebody pretty lined up. And is that a question of, is it one of those two guys who said, hey, I'm going to make the big leap? Is it Dabo Sweeney, who played at Alabama and beat Nick Saban twice for national titles? But honestly, the program feels like it's backslid in the last few years. And he's not been somebody who's been engaged in the transfer portal. I mean, I don't know how. My guess is Alabama fans wouldn't be that fired up about Dabo coming back at this stage of where the Clemson program is? Or is it somebody like Kalen DeBoer, great coach at Washington, but has no SEC ties, but did just hire Jimmy Sexton,

who's by the way, not only Nick Saban's agent, but the agent of pretty much every coach in the SEC, or the other one, maybe Mike Norvell at Florida State, who you'd have to think his buyout isn't big. He's done a really good job at FSU. And we know FSU is in all sorts of entanglements with the ACC. I would find it hard to believe if Alabama really wanted Mike Norvell that he would be able to say no. Yeah, I mean, the Lanning thing, I mean, let's go backwards because Dabble was always named as the guy because of the Alabama ties. And, you know, he was,

I would say the only program. I mean, I don't even really think it's much of a debate. I guess you could say Kirby at the end here, but you know, and to think of like, who's challenging the golden state warriors, essentially like Clemson was the only one and they get the two titles right

against them in incredible games. So one, the blowout and then the other the last second and also one other footnote on this ryan he in his contract that he negotiated years ago it's the one thing that has a carve out is alabama in terms of the buyout is different for alabama than it is for any other any other job he potentially could leave for because they they they had thought of that yeah that kind of feels like one of those gotta go home but you're right like it would just be so it like imagine years ago saying

bama could get dabbo and the fan base would be like yeah well whatever i mean i think the first thing you would do if your bam is going what's up with you in this transfer portal stuff because uh like that's not that's not gonna fly And if Dabo has that carve out, that means it's something that he's always thought about. So it doesn't feel like the slam dunk that all of us, we're just around bullshitting, talking about it. It's like, oh, it would probably be Dabo. Dabo could be the guy.

Dabo could be the guy. But you're right. Clemson, I mean, it's just crazy how this stuff works, how quickly you're not the hot name. And then you heard about the landing part, obviously with his background there, the SEC ties, what he did at Georgia. He's young enough to probably, you know, he's probably young enough that he'd go, I'll do it. You know, because when you think about replacing the legend, you know, some people would say they'd want to be strategic enough to be like, I'd take that job, but I'll take it after somebody else replaces Saban. I think Lanning has the personality if he wants it, if the buyout

ends up being something that Bam was like, all right, we're not going to worry about it, that I think his personality fits it. But then I also think about like Rob Mullins at Oregon being like this guy, all he does is hire the guys that seem like the next guy. And then he has to constantly keep hiring him. I also think to your your point too for them to say to the players we expect something in 72 hours i can't fathom that saban wouldn't be telling people in the athletic department that this is kind of where i'm leaning and you know like i don't want to leave you hanging as if it's this massive surprise where i think other coaches would want to make sure they control the message so much that they would care more about the timing and who got the story than it would be like making sure

there's some, but you have to have this plan. You have to always have this plan in place. If you're an AD, the Norvell one is, um, is interesting. Do you like that higher? Would you, I mean, what do you like the Dabo one? I feel like, and I'm not disagreeing with you. I feel like there's like a big math quality to it, but Norvell, what do you, I mean, you know, again, take aside from the cornrow picture of him as a college receiver like yeah but that was he's done a really yeah he's done a really really good job at florida state they were horrible when he took it over is bama the same job without saban uh yeah because i i think well i don't know i mean when you say is it the same job it still has great history and tradition but it's hard like you got to think about it every kid you recruit

didn't remember when mike shula was the head coach at alabama all they know is this like so i'll juxtapose you know you and i remember miami when ed reed was there, and Miami when they had all those running backs. The kids who they're recruiting now, they don't even remember when Al Golden was the coach there. I mean, not that they missed anything. Yeah, no, I mean, I get your point, right. Because, like, say Sark, say they went, like, hey, I'm just talking out loud, right?

Say they said, Hey, sorry, do you want it? Is Texas better position with what he's, he's got them doing right now? Or do we get back into kind of the Mack Brown stuff that he used to tell us about being like, Texas is its own beast. Okay. Like Texas, you think you have an issue with your boosters. Like Texas has that times a hundred. And it's just, it's a very, very complicated job where you feel like if you have some cash, you can come into Bama and granted, you're still going to have your money people that you have to answer to and the stuff that you don't want to do. I mean, hell Auburn is even Alabama. And I would put that as one of the top five, most craziest like programs going with just all the

stuff over the years you're like what are they doing like what what's going on with them i can feel like every other year um you know like they they either wanted to fire malzahn or they wanted to extend him so i just and they did wonder and got and got stuck paying it was all like kind of like the jimbo deal where it just kept on blowing up their face every other every other way right right because Auburn is the one team throughout the save and run where like they got him a few times I mean other than you know the mention of Clemson in the bowl games but I I'm asking without knowing the answer of do we look at BAM and like clearly post the greatest run we've seen from a coach. You're not just going, yeah, he'll just do that again.

That's not what I'm asking because that's an impossibility. I just wonder if they'll keep – is there a hire that keeps this at that level? Because I think why people always look at Bama, even in the down years, being if anybody ever figures out how to get that thing going, it's going to be awesome because they care about it probably as much, if not more, than any other program in football. I got to say, Ryan, no, the answer is no, there's no way it's, it's, you know, it's, it's impossible for them to do what Nick Saban's done because nobody had ever done it before. And the sport is only getting more congested, meaning like, you know, it's, it's, it's really condensing. The calendar's crazy.

You got way more entitlement, way more stuff to deal with. Um, and I just think it's so much more top heavy now than it was 20 years ago. Um, I just, you know, to me, the, the question on the Sark part of this is like I said, you know, you're replacing Tom Herman as opposed to go there. Now you're replacing Nick Saban and trying to follow him. The part that's kind of crazy with this, though, is football coaches are different. We've all drunk with a bunch of them. And they are the egos. I won't say this particular guy.

It's a guy we both know. like and i there's a i won't say this particular guy it's a guy we both know but he would say just the way they feel like you have to have some some capacity to be like i'm the one who can do that and they all feel like they're riding into town as the only one who can do this ego is is enormous and they'll feel like they're the ones who can do it and so you know like you know probably would have no qualms about thinking he could replace nick saban lane kiffin lane kiffin would probably jump at the chance if they would give him the chance well of course first of all lane would jump at the chance okay i he's probably recalled him five times i just don't know if bama Lane has,

like, I think things have gone really well for him at Ole Miss. He's got them going, you know, like when you're not one of the top tier programs traditionally, and then you get them as a top 10 ranking, you start thinking you're building on that in the future.

Like, he's in a really good spot. I just think, I think the end with Lane at Bama, I have imagined, I can't imagine there's enough people that's so bad they basically fired him before the before a title game right because i mean the story that i had heard was that they were like hey we're good if he's not here anymore and it was like yeah okay and everybody made it out to be like no no this is good for everybody this is exactly what you want like now that's not normal remember the week before the week i'm trying to be nice no but even this year the week before a couple of days before they were

going to play uh alabama lane was like telling you know his media saying yeah kevin steel's not calling the defense and lane was like stirring up all the dirt he could uh about towards nick saban i'm sure nick saban didn't find that funny that he had to answer for it you know it's like you know your kids you know if you have kids they can do a lot of questionable stuff but some you know you have to love them for your because they're your kids when it comes to lane kiffin i don't think nick saban felt great about a you know guy in his whatever mid late 40s tweaking him right especially while Especially while it looked like Alabama was reeling. And at that point of the season, Alabama definitely was reeling. I read the book that came out years ago that wasn't written with his cooperation. And so we

had Saban in studio and I asked him ahead of time, I go, can I ask you about the book? Cause I read it and I really enjoyed it. And he goes, well, you know, I didn't really want to do it at the time. And the guy was like, well, I'm doing it anyway. And it kind of just made me feel like, all right, well then I'm not going to have anything to do with it. But the book was, was really good. And it got into kind of who he was, his origin story, working at the gas station for his father. And I noticed a common theme early with Nick was that it just felt like nothing was really ever good enough for his dad. And I think a lot of great men are, are built off of disappointment and wanting to prove, prove to people they care about, uh, that they were wrong about them. And I asked him, you know, it was pretty heavy. I was like, you know, I kind of got the idea that nothing was ever good enough.

And your dad never really, never really appreciated dad never really appreciated what you were trying to do and how hard you worked and the stuff you were trying to do. And he was like, yeah. He kind of agreed. And then it made me understand him a little bit more that he was holding himself to this impossible standard because he was holding it to his father's standard. And that was kind of what you were going to sign up for. And it wasn't going to be for anybody.

I think it's the funniest thing ever with that 07 year where they weren't good. They lose to Louisiana Monroe and a bunch of the older players are like, yeah, this Nick guy's got his head up his ass. Like to all these older players, there was like not a ton of them, but there was enough that it had made some comments. You're like, wait, he's already proven himself at LSU. You know, he was pretty good there at the end of Michigan State. There's NFL people that never want to accept that he's this great coach

because he had two down years in Miami, which is its own story. But it also led into something that I thought was really one of my favorite Saban stories is that when I went there in 08 for the Iron Bowl, and I was around campus for like four days. So I get there early, hang around. And somebody from the athletic department was walking us all around. And I was like, what is it? What is it with Nick?

You know, cause they had turned it around. Uh, they're going to crush Auburn. Tuberville was the last game. I think he was getting fired. And the guy that took me on the tour was like, you know, when we were trying to figure out who to bring in here is every other coach would kind of be like, man, this place like Alabama, like, oh, my God, like, I can't believe like there's that. And there's this. And this is this is unbelievable.

He goes, Saban showed up and was like, your facilities are garbage. Should take down these posters. No one knows who any of these players are his first thing he did he started decorating like the hallways that recruits would see with like the most recent player that just left bama that be in the nfl that was still active he basically told him like whatever you're doing it's wrong it's all outdated and if i come here you need to change all of this stuff if you want to take this seriously and apparently it turned off some of the people.

We're like, well, who's this guy? I think he's coming in here telling us who we are, who we should be. Like, we're the Crimson Tide. And then luckily, the most important people were like, no, no, this is exactly, exactly what we need. And it turned out to be, you know, one of the great hires in the history of the sport. Yeah. And it was almost Rich Rod, right? You know, like at one point that, that could have been Rich Rod. So, and look, Rich Rod did a great job at West Virginia and he's done a good job at

Jacksonville state. But you think about it, it was like, you know, Saban's run is to me so far and ahead of anything else. You know, it's a little bit ironic that this news happens the same day Pete Carroll gets shoved out the door in Seattle, right? Because I would argue Pete Carroll in the last 25 years, I mean, he had a remarkable run at USC and he changed, again, similar to a little bit similar to, you know, these are the two of the bluest of blue bloods, USC and Alabama. And different, you know, they're both defensive guys. And at one point, as crazy as this was, Nick Saban actually replaced Pete Carroll on the Ohio State staff when Pete Carroll went to work for Lane's dad at NC State like 30 or 40 years ago. But they're just different personalities.

And I think what they did have, you know, was just an ability to relate to players that I think they were often the smartest, most competitive guys in the room. And, you know, that stuff matters. It just does because I think what you had with them, and this came up up about a month ago or six weeks ago. We did a story on Jimbo Fisher and everything that went wrong at Texas A&M.

I talked to somebody who worked for Jimbo, and he had also worked for Nick Saban, and he just said, you know, Jimbo could be a good guy, but Jimbo didn't want to hear anybody else. Whereas Nick Saban or Kirby smart, they will talk to any high school coach forever. If they think they are going to get something out of it. And it was just constantly trying to grow and learn. And it was this growth mindset that they talked about. And I think that's what Saban really was able to tap into. Um, and look, I, you know, obviously he and Belichick are super close.

And you hear some of the stuff when Belichick hosts college defensive coordinators and we'll, we'll field their questions and ask them sit on on whatever they want. And then he picks their, he kind of downloads those guys, whether it's Dave Aranda or Manny Diaz or whoever, you know, would come up to come up to new England. I think that that's something that is a really underrated thing when guys seem like they're on the top of their game and they're constantly straining to just get a little better

of an edge than on everybody else. The record is unimpeachable. It's stupid. Look, it's better than people realize. I go through it usually once a year just to laugh, Look, it's better than people realize. I go through it usually once a year just to laugh, and I went through it again before we taped this. The only loss that he had after 07, where you're like, what happened in that game, is when Calzada for A&M turned into John Elway, and they lost to an unranked A&M team.

But the thing with A&M, why Jimbo's not there anymore, is you were like, it's a really talented team. There's really not... it's just stupid there's everybody has that bad season everybody has like what the hell happened there like what was up with that group he doesn't have it I mean even the 2010 team that lost three games which is by the way the last time he ever lost three games in a season. I thought that team was the best out of that group that won all the national titles around it because they won three out of four years. The 2010 team didn't. I remember asking about that. I asked a player about it, not Nick. And the player was like, we had a lot of guys checking

their draft grades or draft status every single week. And if you look at from 2008 on, And if you look at from 2008 on, he at one point was ranked number one every season, except for this year, broke that streak where the highest he was ranked was number three. He was always at some point ranked number one, except for this year, again, at three. And then you can't, there just, there aren't the bad losses. That's why it drove me nuts when they were having the battle with South Florida. I was like, can we, can we get a couple bad losses in there before we think this thing is over for him? Because I know like you want to call it every year for the haters that were out there and

it actually never happened. It never happened. What's so crazy is if you go back almost 20 years, this run, 17 years or whatever it is, there has, if you've played four years there, you won a national title. You know, you, you won a national title. That's insane to have that kind of stretch where like, if you just stayed there and didn't leave or didn't quit, you got a national championship, right? You can't say that any other place. I mean, it's just like, to compare it to any other sport, you have to get to like, you know, the non-revenue sports at like North Carolina or,

you know, like some, some of these other, you know, coaches who are just lap their field, but their fields are much smaller and not resourced the way this one is. Their fields are much smaller and not resourced the way this one is. Six titles at Bama, a seventh at LSU. Who knows? A couple kicks work out. There could have been a couple more. The Cam Newton comeback, the kick six, the Ohio State semifinal.

There's even games in there. I'm like, imagine if that one had actually worked out. But look, the comeback from Auburn alone this year probably made up for three of the bad luck games. Look, one of the best offenses you and I have probably ever seen as a team, both of us were around a lot, LSU with Joe Burrow. They win, I think it was 45-41 or 46-41 in Tuscaloosa. But if there's one play where Tua doesn't slip down in the red zone or whatever. Maybe Alabama scores there instead of gets no points.

If they win that game, LSU may not get a chance to run through everybody else in the playoff. No one's ever doing this again. No one's ever doing it. It's going to take somebody special just to keep that fan base and the boosters happy. And you think the list is Lanning, Dabo, and Norvell? You think if you had to pick three right now, those would be the three names? Yeah. The other two wild cards is just because I know they really think highly of Sark. My gut is i wouldn't think he would leave the situation and then you know i don't

think i don't know the kalen deborah hiring jimmy sexton even though kalen's never coached in the sec i think he's a brilliant guy it just i don't know i don't know i'd be curious how you do there that's that's like that's a snake pit, man. Yeah, because they're going to turn on you a lot quicker if you're an outsider. And one of the great tricks, Saban had enough draw from the West Virginia upbringing that it was like, all right, we'll give this guy a pass. We'll accept you. But yeah, with that buyout thing with Oregon, I think Lanning is wired to go,

I'll do it. I'll do it. And look, and maybe they're going to pay. If you're a little bit older. If you really think he's the right guy, and there's no indication that everything he's done has been A-plus, I think, since he's got that job.

Staffing, NIL, recruiting, his evaluation, his attention to detail, all of it is really really good i know he takes chances and some may question his game management but i think he's just being aggressive believing in his players and like you said um he has an edge to him and i think that shows that he's not gonna i don't think he would be scared to be like all right i know how great nick saban was but this is a job that you know is huge job. I want to be the guy to jump into that. Question, again, is if you believe it,

then maybe whatever they would have to pay to get him out of Oregon, maybe that's worth it. Awesome conversation, Bruce. For more in-depth on what's next, check out The Athletic. His piece is up right now. This was awesome. Thanks for the time. Anytime, Ryan's next, check out The Athletic. His piece is up right now. This was awesome. Thanks for the time. Anytime, Ryan.

Hey, thanks to Cerruti. Thanks to Cliff for doing this late at night. Thanks to Bruce Feldman. We'll be back and older. President select states. FanDuel is offering online sports wagering in kansas under agreement with kansas star casino llc gambling problem call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit fanduel.com forward slash rg in colorado iowa kentucky michigan new jersey ohio pennsylvania

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