The Ryen Russillo Podcast - Peak Giannis and OKC Questions and Full CFB Playoff Bracket Picks With Danny Kanell. Plus, Vermont National Champ Soccer Coach Rob Dow.

Episode Date: December 18, 2024

Russillo starts the show with his thoughts on the Bucks winning the NBA Cup (0:38). Then, Danny Kanell joins to bury the hatchet and break down the CFP bracket (13:39). Next, Vermont soccer coach Rob Dow joins fresh off winning the national championship to share his reaction (60:59). Finally, Kyle and Ceruti join for Life Advice (79:41)! Did I instigate a bar fight? Check us out on YouTube for exclusive clips, livestreams, and more at https://www.youtube.com/@RyenRussilloPodcast. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Host: Ryen Russillo Guests: Danny Kanell and Ryan Dow Producers: Steve Ceruti, Kyle Crichton, and Mike Wargon Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Loaded pod for you. A lot of sports. Talking hoops. Milwaukee's win. What does it mean? Does it mean anything for OKC? UVM national champs. Don't get to say it a lot. Rob Dowd, head coach of the men's soccer team that won the national championship this week. We're going to talk a little soccer with him and his journey. Danny Cannell, college football. It's been a while. He was almost banned from the show.

We're going to hash it all out. We'll go through the brackets and we've got life advice. The Milwaukee Bucks win the NBA Cup last night. Dominant fashion over OKC 97 81 a very impressive win also a reminder although I don't know that we need Yanis reminders but just a nice display of his physical dominance and just I loved what I saw from him last night and that happens a lot when I watch him 26 19 and 10 the three blocks so now what what do we do with this?

This game that happens in December that means something. I like the in-season tournament, now the NBA Cup. I think it's great. There are plenty of games in this stretch where I'm like, I think these guys are playing really hard because of this. So that's a win. Now we get into scheduling. I don't think it's really that disruptive and I don't want to talk

scheduling, sick of talking about scheduling. I'm sick of hearing from people trying to fix everything every fucking day. So let's just talk about basketball. Uh, so what does it mean? Big picture. I mean, I know, I know what you're going to say. I know what you're going to say. You're going to say, Hey, didn't the Lakers win this thing last year?

Weren't we forced into a morning after of analysis of like, do we have to call the Lakers title contenders and then what happened? We're so low. Then what happened? Yeah, you're right. I got it. Um, so I'm not going to do that. I just think we should talk about the Milwaukee bucks and their

turnaround in the season. So let's do that. Um, Milwaukee started one in six. They're now 14 and 11. And remember last night's game doesn't count as a win or a loss and the stats don't count. So some of this can be a little off and, and I was digging through some of the stats this morning,

but so they're the five seed in the East. I think there are three seed ceiling. Uh, nobody right now in the East. I think there are three seed ceiling Nobody right now in the East is I think even close to the level of Cleveland and Boston So if you include the cup final victory Which again is not technically the right thing to do the walkie from that one and six point to the 14 and 11 overall But they're actually 11 and two during this stretch of wins.

Defensively, they're 19th overall. So we knew at the beginning of the year, you're like, this team's just going to suck on defense all the time. Um, but since the one and six starts, so I plugged it in at November 5th to now the walkies ninth in defense. You can get into some net rating stuff that maybe would put them behind even more teams that maybe you won't really like. Um, not going to do that right now, but they just felt written off.

And part of that was a carry over to the lack of playoff success. The loss to Miami two years ago was the one seed, the loss of the Pacers last year, but there's also something very constant in that they were a mash unit there in the Pacers series, no Yanis who gets hurt at the end of the regular season and then in the Pacers series, no Giannis who gets hurt at the end of the regular season. And then in the Heat series, although I'll, I'd allow either to happen that even with healthy Giannis, there was something weird and off about that team. Cause even when Giannis came back, but he played, I believe

it's three of the five games. I think it's half of the available minutes in that entire series that he was playing. I'd like to think if he was healthy the entire time, they still figure out a way to win. You may differ. That's fine. Not going to scream about it, but the reason why the one in six start this year,

whether it's Adrian Griffin into Doc, into what's up with the defense, the Dame trade isn't really working as Janis. Like all of these chaotic things are happening two weeks into the season. And now they've steadied the ship. Um, and I think last night was, was the culmination of what we've kind of seen here for the last few weeks from them. Uh, the real thing, it's not some dramatically improved defense. Cause I don't know if that's going to happen with Dame and Brooke Lopez and some of the other pieces that they have, but it's been the shooting.

They're the third best three point shooting team in the league. Like look at these numbers. Dame's at 37, Portis is at 37, uh, Gary Trent's at 39%, AJ Green 48%, Prince is at 52%. And the best thing about the three point shooting is Giannis stopped taking. He's at 0.7 attempts per game. Five years ago, he's taken five threes a game. Then it was kind of four, then it was four, then it was two. And last year it was 1.7 and now it's under one attempt.

Hopefully that number goes down. But that's, that's been awesome from that. Um, look, and I don't love all of Milwaukee's stuff. OKC looked for Dame constantly, whether they wanted to get him in a switch and attack him, or they would just look for it a little bit, there are certain drives and possessions where if they had the ball in the hands of the guy that was being defended by Dame, that I think that person always had the green light to just go ahead and go because Dame's just not going to hold up.

He's a weak link and it's a problem in a playoff series. You can also, if you can get Brook Lopez away from the hoop, which does again happen to a lot of centers, but the side to side stuff with him is just, you know, it's just not really there. You get him far away, you're going to go right past him. And it's one of the Celtics number one things they'll look for when they go up against Milwaukee and all of this. Um, there's times with Bobby Portis, but I don't really love it.

It can be up or down. You can be a heat check, which is great when it's going in. He also can be a ball stopper. He gets lost. And I wouldn't say he's a great defensive player either. And Andre Jackson, who is terrific defensively, he's provided them one of these late draft picks to actually be in the rotation because that was another talking point is that they weren't hitting on all these late picks,

which again, I think is a pretty high standard to hold the team to or a front office to. Jackson is somebody you could probably ignore. And then you've also got the Middleton factor where he's been back for four games, shooting 26% overall, didn't play last night, not injury, just out because of illness. So all of it, I don't love, but peak Yanis I do. He solves a lot of those problems.

The block on Caruso ridiculous Caruso gets him. He's like, but you didn't, but you didn't get me. Caruso drives to the hoop, thinks he has a chance. Yanis blocks it into the backboard. The ball then ricochets back into his face. Caruso's like doing, you know, LeBron checks for fake blood. Caruso was sitting there like tapping his face. It's one thing to get rejected and then have the ball also hit you off the face.

Isn't great. The Hartenstein block, the Kenridge Williams block at the end. Um, he was incredible. I, when I was watching OKC Houston, just to put it in perspective, how The Hartenstein block, the Kenridge Williams block at the end. He was incredible. When I was watching OKC Houston, just to put into perspective how great OKC is defensively, when I was watching that game, they had a debate. I think I actually caught some halftime show. Look at me. And they were trying to figure out who would Milwaukee rather play. And Bob Myers was very sane in his approach going, well, you're no offense to Houston. You'd always rather play the less talented team because Houston is less

talented than Oklahoma city when you watch them play in that game. Uh, the two best guys for Oklahoma city are better than anybody else on Houston to this point, the way I see it. Houston could not get the first pass made. It felt like half of their offensive possessions because of how good OKC was defensively. Now, was there part of me that wondered, well, wait, if OKC is playing against Milwaukee, what's their Yanis matchup?

And is the idea of Jabari Smith or Atari Easton being thrown in it Yanis? Like, is that a better matchup? Am I just saying that because they're taller? Man, it's all fucking pointless because it's Janice and it doesn't matter. I mean, look, Janice, you could sit here and say, well, maybe he's a bad matchup for OKC, they tried Jalen Williams one on him, toast. They tried Dord on him.

Doesn't matter. They tried Caruso on him. That was worse. There was a possession where Janice decided to bring the ball up because he's doing less of it. I think I need to look up some of this stuff, but I love that he's not being tasked with bringing the ball up all the time and then just deciding which guy he's going to drive right at. Because, you know, look, there's also Yanis possessions where it's incredibly frustrating. We're like, this guy could just run through everybody and then it's a foul on everybody else. Yeah, that's part of it. Sucks.

Sorry. I don't have to do it. So he had door on his hip and I don't have to do it. So he had door on his hip and this doesn't happen to Lou door. We love Lou door, right? There's a Lou door pod, but door was trying to like impede his progress physically. And Giannis just didn't matter, man.

It looked like it could have been ish myth. I went two syllables on you. It just doesn't matter. So yeah, maybe I mean, would, would Houston have been a better matchup because of Jabari? I, I left the thought cross my mind, but I'll tell you like, I don't believe it necessarily. I just think that's what it is. But I mean, look, this center stuff with OKC, whether it's Hartenstein, Chet's not playing.

Like they even went Kenrich at the five last night, even though Brooke and Giannis were out there together. So they don't care. They'll, they'll try all sorts of stuff. So look, um, if you want to pivot into what this means for OKC, I don't know that it means a ton. We've already talked about the matchup specifically. They lost a game in the NBA last night that has a different title. If you want an OKC defensive stat, just so we understand what

we're talking about here, because of how special this group is. And it didn't work out last night. So if you look at a team's defensive rating compared to the league average defensive rating, and then the differential, right? So how many points below that league average rating is a team at? OKC is fourth in NBA history through 25 games. Teams better than them, 0-7-0-8 Celtics title winner, 15-16 Spurs, Team's better than them, 0-7-08 Celtics, title winner, 15-16 Spurs, 92-93 Knicks, and then OKC, which is nine points below the league average defensive rating. They are that good, but Giannis was too much for him last night because none of it matters. You can have a plan, you can have the matchups, but if he's willing to just

physically dominate you, which he is, because I think more often than not, when you turn on peak Yanis games, he cares more than anybody else that's out on the court. And that's going all the way back to stuff I used to talk about when they get in those Sixers matchups, when he would have Embiid and he would go right fucking at Embiid. It was like, I don't care. Like that thing meant something to him. It wasn't about whether or not he would get his shot blocked. It wouldn't be about whether or not it was, I'm looking for a foul or all these different things. He just wanted to know like, okay, he's supposed to be one of the best. I'm supposed to be one of the best.

I'm going to go right at him. It's rare, man. It's rare in today's NBA. And I think it's, it's always just a treat when you get to see somebody doing the kind of stuff he was doing last night. So I, I could break this down to the shooting variant stuff with OKC, 5 of 32 and 3s. They waved the white flag at 77 points. I don't expect to see that. But I think that'd be a little dismissive of just Milwaukee having a really great night. So I don't think it's just,

oh, they missed 3s. It doesn't matter. But on the other side of it, like the first Houston OKC matchup, well, I don't know if it's the first one, but it was the most recent one before the cup one where they lost, but there was no chat. I don't, I'm not going to worry about this. There were eight and two with chat. There are nine and one technically, not technically nine and two after last night with Hardenstein, there's five games in there without a center. Again, they don't even care.

So could I get a little greedy with OKC and talk about a third on ball creator? Maybe Chet takes that leap offensively as we heard this summer, like he's going to be that third person there. Um, but look, Giannis, healthy Giannis in the East. If there's any kind of lesson talking point the day after is just, if they's any kind of lesson talking point the day after, it's just, if they're gonna look like that in the playoffs, it's a different challenge.

Although it's not like I'm gonna put them ahead of Cleveland and Boston today. College football is coming to an end. And with the 12 team playoff going on, you won't wanna miss a moment of the action the action and right now all customers on FanDuel can score a profit boost for every first round matchup. Here's how it works. Place a bet on the game, apply your profit boost, enjoy boosted winnings when your bet hits and the best part you get paid instantly when you win. Let's take a look at the odds as of today. All right, so our first four playoff games, Notre Dame favor by seven and a half against Indiana. Penn State favor by eight and a half against SMU.

Texas favor by 11 and a half against Clemson. And Ohio State minus seven and a half against Tennessee. Of those games, the one I like the most, it's funny because conference championship week, everything was like a field goal and opening up the playoffs, everything's more than a touchdown. Tennessee plus the seven and a half would be my move.

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There were concerns this may not happen. Danny Cannell joins us. CBS sports before we even went on to tape this, he was like, are we good? And I said, I don't know yet, we'll see. We'll see how this goes. I don't know, how did it get so bad between us this year? This felt like it started getting personal.

It reminded me a lot when we yelled at each other in studio at ESPN radio, when you were with Van Pelt and I do my weekly guest segment, and come in there and start yelling about the SEC and get all mad. And you're like, it was, it was ugly. And I'd walk out of there and be like, I don't know if he's ever going to talk to me again. Like it got, it got that one. And you know, there's been a couple, you know, social media exchanges that have been felt like hostility is out there. So I don't know. It's Christmas season though. So hopefully we can

put it behind us. But have you recovered though? Are you okay? Because I know you wanted six teams in from the SEC. Is it okay that we only have three? Is it okay? I'm okay with that. And I do remember that one specific hit because we didn't really,

I'd like to think we didn't really fight that much when we did the show together, which I think is a challenging thing for people when you're in a room all the time. And like, I took pride in the fact that like, I think Van Pelle and I only got like four fights in six years. But that guest spot you did that day,

I do remember it like it was yesterday, because I think at one point, like Scott and I were just, we'd had it with you from whatever you were doing that weekend and we were just going through all of the tweets. And then I think you just, you kind of broke because you fighting with you, like if somebody wants to get into an argument with you,

it's not going to happen. I actually respect that you have that power in you. You're just like, I'm not gonna, like, I'm not gonna engage. Like I've even talked to your wife about it. She's like, it sucks to argue with him because he just goes, all right, whatever. But you would, you would had it with us, which is fine,

because we were giving it to you. And you yelled, why do you follow me then? And I was kind of like, well, we do, because I think we're friends and we all work together, but yeah, you're right. Like when Bama's down three nothing and you do the eye emoji seven minutes into a football game, that was the one Van Pelt was like, Oh, and the eye emoji.

Ooh, I brought back the eye emoji this year too. I wanted to tag you on that one because when Indiana was playing Ohio state, I've learned though, that I just leave it vague enough because what was early Indiana moved ball right down the field and I was like, they had three third downs, they converted it was, it was an incredibly impressive drive, but it's also a very Ohio State thing to do where they're like, okay, we're gonna take the first quarter off all season long.

Yeah, all right, so let's get into it then, fuck it. I'm okay with the SEC not having six teams in. If you, I doubt you were listening to what I was doing at the end, but I had kind of come to the realization with Bama where I'm like, you know what? I'm not going to argue this team being in. There's a lot about them that I look at the collective 12 games and go, this is not the default. Like, hey, you wouldn't want to play them. Because I know you used to hate that because it

was kind of unfair at times when we had the four team system where the default was, yeah, okay, but nobody wants to play Alabama. And you're like, okay, but fine. There were years where I were arguing for them and years I was arguing against it. But this year I just kind of was like, look, I've probably been as critical of Milrow as anybody for the last couple of years. I felt like they got gashed four different times. And even though they had to have with South Carolina, I think you could have in the committee, if you were in the room, you could talk about the South Carolina LSU loss and go, they got absolutely hosed. We have something real to point to.

The head to head with Ole Miss bothered me, but look, this committee liked records more than they cared about how the records were achieved. And maybe you like that better than me, but I, yeah, I think the problem that I would have with you is that better than me, but yeah, I think the problem that I would have with you is that you would just say no matter what, let's just argue against the SEC teams even if their schedule experience was different

than say in Indiana or even in SMU. So look at the conference championship games, which I understand and almost admire that they were like, we don't wanna penalize a losing team in a conference championship game for playing the extra game. And I like that. But then when the rankings come out and you're like,

you can't put Clemson ahead of SMU when they just played each other because you were so married to this idea that the conference championship game isn't going to impact your rankings whatsoever. So look, it's a committee of people. We could sit here every single year and look at a different group and pick apart everything they've done.

It's an impossible job to achieve perfection, but there were clear priorities. And I think there are priorities that you would have been aligned with based on 10 years of arguing with you about this. Correct. But so I also felt like the four teams that were vying for that 12th spot, which was really Clemson before they, you know, won the ACC title. I would not have made the case for them. I would have put Miami in that conversation, the Hurricanes. Excuse me, it wasn't, it wasn't Clemson.

It was Miami from the ACC, a 10 and two. I thought they should have been given more consideration and then the three, nine and three SEC teams. The thing that's quartered the beauty of the system, I guess, I could have taken any one of them made a very strong case for any single one of them, right? And made a compelling case. It really did come down to a subjective, which team do you like the best? I really think that was the committee. Because I do think the committee got off the hook. And some of it was Ward Manuel backed himself into a corner because he gave out information that he didn't have to by setting his priorities

of we're not going to punish teams that play in the ACC championship game. Like that's where I thought SMU had they lost by three touchdowns, that would have made him look really bad because what would you have said then about it? You know, so like Clemson winning, SMU getting it to, you know, respectable where it's a last second field goal was huge. So I don't think the committee had to make a tough call about almost anything. You could argue the seating. And I know that's been a hot point of contention, which I don't have

that big of a problem with. Um, but like I thought that's, and that's what's going to happen every single year is these teams are going to be flawed. It's which flaws do you like less or which ones bother you more, I should say. You know, like, because I actually thought South Carolina was that team because you remember when Sam Darnold and USC were nine and three and they played Penn State in the bowl game. And I was like, this is why we need expansion. A team like this that was bad early makes a change. I think it was Max Brown maybe that started early for USC, got benched, they struggled early and then they were hot at the end of

the year. Like that was one of the teams I was like, this is why we need expansion. So I would have actually, I actually liked South Carolina from the standpoint of which team would you kind of want to see in the playoffs? I would have had, I would have been okay with that. The thing that was crazy about it is I thought Alabama had the worst resume and yet the committee ranked them at the top of the three SEC teams and Miami, which I again, I think Miami got the calendar screwed Miami. You cannot lose two of your last three games and have any chance, which they didn't. But I thought their two losses were quote good losses against good teams that were, you know, top 30 teams or whatever, top 25 teams.

And they weren't ugly. You know, I thought that was just the fact that they lost when they did was what screwed Miami. Yeah, look, I think Georgia Tech with Haynes King is good. Um, and that's a team, despite him not being there, that still won seven games. I think if you watch QC up throughout the year, like Syracuse is a good football team, the problem is Miami's up 21-0 when everything matters and that defense, you know, let Syracuse back in.

But again, Syracuse is pretty good. I think the problem is, is that it's the Cal game. It's the Virginia tech game. It's the Louisville game. You know, I think there was just a bunch of games. Here's what I have a problem with that. Cause people were like, oh, they had ugly wins. Isn't that better than losing to Vanderbilt or

losing games like actually losing those close games like they did find a way to win, which bothered me when people were arguing about Miami's resume saying, yeah, they had all these close wins. It was it was almost like they were dinged worse than if they would have lost the game like I was an ugly win. They'd almost lost it. And yet they only lost twice. And these teams in the SEC lost three times. The other thing that really bothered me is we've drawn this arbitrary line at top 25 wins,

where that's again where I think Miami got shrewd. I don't think there's a big difference between 15 and 30 or 35 that you could almost interchange some of those teams. And a couple of those wins, Duke did not finish. They didn't get credit for beating Duke. They didn't, Syracuse got in late. Louisville was a team that would have been in like a top 30, top 35 toward a ranking, which I do think those are pretty good wins. Those are significant and they don't get credit for them.

When Moore Manuel says, well, they're, they're record versus, you know, they didn't have any top 25 wins. That I thought was, was a disservice to Miami, but they find these arbitrary lines that, to explain away their decision, was a disservice to Miami, but they find these arbitrary lines that to explain away their decision, I get what they're doing, but I thought it was, I thought it was the incorrect way to go about doing it. Like if you want to go wins over 500 teams, like that to me makes way more

sense when teams with a winning record, like if you want to go there as opposed to drawing top 25, um, I totally agree with you on the top 25 being this, this line in the sand, as if these teams 26 through 33 aren't just as good as like 17 through 25 and how interchangeable they are. And again, that changes every single year. So as I'm just doing this off the top of my head, you maybe even creep up a few spots even higher. All right.

But let me ask you this. Cause I still think the Clemson LSU thing helps you kind of hammer down the priority of record. And I keep saying schedule experience, but I'm just trying to think of the best phrase to kind of cover what I thought was the different. Because I just, with all of this expansion, I knew that was going to happen this summer. It's like, man, it really feels like all these teams that are like, they're going through a completely different in conference experience. So if SMU is the better team because they're 11 and two, despite losing the head to head to Clemson, who then is 10 and three Clemson's losses are Georgia week one, Louisville, they just lost to them, right?

And then South Carolina, as they were driving for the game time field goal, interception ends up being the tip ball. All right. So like two of the three losses there are Georgia and South Carolina. SMU loses to BYU the beginning of the year before they make the change to Jennings. And then they lose that game to Clemson. And yet the committee keeping them ahead, like, how can no one in the committee go, Hey man, like, do you think that's the same?

Cause it's not like, would you agree? Would you agree with what I'm saying here? Absolutely. Okay. I agree with you. So I saw, I agree with you that Clemson should have been ranked higher than SMU. Yes. Right.

Okay. So, so why then if it's say Miami against an SEC team, because they didn't have the head to head, you know, only because they didn't have the head to head. No, I absolutely think that's what takes precedent every time when the resumes are similar, if they're very, very close,. No, I absolutely think that's what takes precedent every time when the resumes are similar, if they're very, very close, which is, I would say one lost difference. And to me, like Clemson has the head to head and it's like, Oh, and they lost to Georgia and South Carolina.

Like they, they could have just not played those teams, but they're going to play them and I think the Miami part of it, even though I think, you know, you're right to push back on my close win thing, but I think trying to understand the committee is that it was like, they were a bit like hanging on by a thread a little bit, and then they have the two late losses and they blow the huge lead to Syracuse. I don't know if enough people would give Georgia Tech credit, give Syracuse enough credit.

It's like, Hey, if you watch them, you know them, you'll you'll like, that's a tough out. That's not in, you know, I have the, I have like a stack of 10 to 12 teams every year that are not even in the top 25 that I'll just like, you know, I'm sure it happens to you too, where you're just sort of like them. Um, I think what I'm in love with A&M this year and I was totally wrong on them. The backend. You did.

I did. I thought they were better than Texas. I thought they were going to be Texas late with Marcel Reed. I thought he was a difference maker and then he just, he couldn't get it done when it mattered the most. So what would you, what would have been out like, what would have been the most outrageous scenario to you? Like what if Indiana had been out and another SEC team had been in? That would have been wrong then that was the team that was starting to get like that reminded me of the Iowa team that we used to argue about that was a half yard from getting to the Big Ten Championship game and

And coming up short and Michigan State went on and and one of that was in the Big Ten Championship game, right? That was the Big Ten Championship. Yeah, where they came up short and it was that was reminding me of that because I Thought Indiana like all of all the things that we talked about strength of schedule and their schedule was easy Right not that it was easy. The non-conference was easy And it timed up where the teams that they played but they did dominate their schedule Until they got to Ohio State in Michigan who were two traditionally good teams They beat one and they lost to the other.

Like so, but the other parts of it, like when Missouri was boat racing, god awful teams early this season, they were top five in the country. No one ever said, well, they haven't played anybody yet. Like, but they looked impressive because they were putting up massive points and they were like, it was 89-3 or something,

was the point differential. Indiana was doing that all season long to lesser opponents, but like no one gave him any credit for it was like, oh, well, they're not playing anybody but they were winning impressively, which if it's a traditional, you know, blue blood, and I'm not saying SEC if that was Ohio State, Ohio State didn't play anybody early either non con, but they were boat racing them. So it's like, oh, yeah, we'll put them in the top

10. That's been like my biggest thing. And it's not, it's not even an SEC bias. It is a brand bias that exists where if you're a team that comes from obscurity or is not a traditional powerhouse, you have to win twice as much as the team that's already there, which it should be the opposite. Like you should have to prove more if you're that team that has more history, more tradition, more five stars, more resources than opposed to a team like Indiana who's trying to defy the odds. I totally understand where you're at in Indiana and you gave me a hard time because the way the video was posted and then you made it a little dramatic, I

think, but where I was saying, I, I inherently give teams a benefit of the doubt. Like I assume Texas is going to be good because they were in the playoff last year and they had the third most returning players of any team in the SEC. They have their NFL prospect quarterback coming back. They added to the wide receivers, their

literal draft picks. Their coach is still there because then people were like, oh, you must like Washington too. It's like, actually, Washington, depending on what depth chart you believe, they had one or two guys returning from a playoff team, all of their NFL guys were gone, including the quarterback, the receivers, and the coach was gone.

So yes, I shouldn't have to explain that. I think most sane people understand the difference. And so you're right, maybe Indiana doesn't, well, of course, Indiana is not getting the benefit of the doubt bump because they haven't ever been good as opposed to Missouri that finishes really strong last year they're on the radar, but like, it's the same thing with. Like, why did you think the bills would be good this summer? Right. Right.

Why did you think the Niners would be good? You know, like maybe you didn't, but, but I did. So I'm, I'm sorry that I do that in college football and it doesn't feel fair to Indiana, but then I'll see like when you're doing the DK top eight earn not given and you have Indiana as the number two team in the country, that feels kind of given.

That feels a bit like I'm doing this for a reason. They had lost, they were undefeated, they hadn't lost. They hadn't played, I mean, at least you could argue Missouri at least, like, look, people are going to laugh. But Boston College was top 25 when they beat them. And I don't think Boston College sucked this year. So here's, I'll give you two examples. I'll give you one outside of the SEC so I'm not picking on Texas

now that they're in the SEC. Notre Dame. Like, Notre Dame's a good example of a team that just gets the complete pass because they're Notre Dame and they're a traditional brand and yet they haven't played anybody. And I think what's interesting about both of them is that Indiana did play both teams that were in the national championship last year. It's not their fault that Michigan sucked and Washington sucked and fell apart. Same thing with Notre Dame. Like they didn't know Florida state was going to be awful. They didn't know USC was going to be six and six. Like they didn't know those know those things When they schedule them, I mean shoot they had no idea army, but that's irrelevant. Like I get your point

It's it's unlucky. They didn't get a better but but why don't I'm in the room in Texas get judged the same way that Indiana does Do you think Indiana's better than Notre Dame? I think they could beat him. Absolutely You don't so you like you're laying the points with Notre Dame beat them. Absolutely. You don't. So you like, you're laying the points with Notre Dame. Uh, no, I actually picked Indiana in the bracket just because I knew like, cause I knew all year long with everything I've said, I was like, they'll end up winning their first playoff game. Um, maybe Indiana isn't really good, but they had one chance to prove it and it was a disaster. And yet the committee was, was totally fine with it. And that's where I think it's not an Indiana

SCC thing. It's it like Indiana Clemson, it'd be a perfect example. If SMU ends up winning that game and overtime, right? Yup. Um, look, the fourth loss with Clemson, it wouldn't even be a question, but say that was

Clemson's only loss, right? Well, then the committee wouldn't have dinged them because they clearly aren't doing anything with the conference championship games. It has nothing to do with Indiana. I just think everything that I'd said for years when we had heard at first was gonna go to 12, I'm always gonna have a problem with the team

that I don't feel like has one good win after 12 games playing for a national championship. And I'm gonna feel that way every year. So then to flip it back on Notre Dame, why don't you have a problem that they had all these tests and they had a test. They completely failed against Northern Illinois, where if Indiana had run the, let's say they had beaten Ohio state clear, let's say there's a signature win.

But even if they, like if they had lost to who's early on their schedule, Western Illinois or FIU, FIU was bad team this year. Like if they had lost that game, they're, they're done. They're done for the season because they're Indiana. And I thought Notre Dame was going to be done after they lost that one. Like that game still kind of bothers me because I think that should be a season like devastating type of loss where the regular season matters. Now they dominated, they took care of their business, and they don't play in a conference. So they kind of get that pass on the sidelines. But like Indiana doesn't survive that. If they lose to Northern Illinois, that is the main narrative around

Indiana for the rest of the year. Like, well, they had just won the week before on a Saturday night in college station against number 20 Texas A&M, who I think despite the disappointing closed the season and the non-ranking. I think it's okay to say that we think Texas A&M is a tough team to beat. So I understand what you're saying there with Indiana and I could be even more unfair saying, well, they have wins against two of their top 25s in Navy and Army, but I know

what you're going to do if I say that they've got a win against Louisville. The time of being ranked versus who ends up being ranked, who ends up being ranked, you know, who ends up being ranked is, is the more important part of the conversation. But there's at least a four and O thing that you can point to there with Notre Dame that you can't do with Indiana. I think my biggest issue with all of this stuff is we're getting further and further away from just, Hey, I think this team is good and I think this team isn't as good, you know, what's the point of watching that was your point with Georgia and Oregon, like just have them play.

It was like, I think these are the two best teams. Was that the point you were trying to make with that? Well, that one also got clipped out a little bit where essentially I went with McShane was just like, let's go through all the old systems. Like if it was the BCS, it would be this. How would you feel if it were the four? How would you feel if it were four, if it were six with the first two? I know you were a big, let's have it be six, one and two get buys all five conferences, power fives represented when

we still had the pack 12 and then an automatic bid to the group of five team. That was you egalitarian people based on your politics are surprised that you were that fair and wanted that many people to be represented. So many voices to be heard from. So that was, and I'm McShea had basically given up on the segment and hated me for even going through the whole point, but my clip that made it out was if I only wanted that. I thought for this year with everything that had happened around it, if it ended up just being Georgia and Oregon, that to me would have been a better representation of like who fought

their way through the season because look, I don't care about the Georgia two losses when I think about the teams they played this year, like what's Indiana's record with Georgia schedule? I shout out. Was it Saruti that clipped that? Cause that's a genius clip. Like that thing goes viral, gets lots of views. It was, it was awesome.

But like I, that would have bothered me from the sample. And that was who the BCS would have liked to be because I know the BCS system, people put out those, like those would have been the final two in the BCS, right? Yeah, by the way, for this year was my point that it probably, like I would have gone, all right, I wouldn't have had a huge, if it was still the BCS system doing the show, whatever,

I would have come in that Monday being like, I'm actually okay with it because I don't think this third teams left out it does not Mean there's a million other years where you're like, this is ridiculous And I can't believe we only have these two teams the clip did not work that way But whatever but I actually agree with you like if that was the BCS, I don't think there's outrage from anybody You know, I got I don't think Notre Dame is outraged because again that we just talked about their schedule Penn State could have you know beaten Oregon to have the chance.

They would have just lost. I agree with your point. Yeah. I don't think there would have been outrage. I love that we have 12 this year because I think it's a great year for it. Last time we talked, it was something like I think there's more parity. I do think we're going to see upsets, which is probably, and I picked two out of the four, which would probably be the wrong two, and then it'll be the wrong bracket.

Then you're screwed. I have Indiana as well. Let's just, let's go through it then, because I feel like I've spent a lot of time on recapping stuff the audience has already heard from both of us a ton. So let me, let's go through your bracket right now. What do you have?

I've got the one upset. Again, all these upsets, I have no idea. Like I've been horrible picking games, and I think for whatever reason, it's just been bad. But I think all of them could be upset, so you're fine the two. I like Clemson in the first one. I think Clemson is the quintessential Dabo Sweeney, us against the rest, y'all. No one believes in us, and I can picture him after the game, again, throwing it back in

everybody's face. I think Cade Klubnick can get it done in a place where he won the state championship against Quinn Ubers, but this is probably more about Quinn Ubers, something's wrong with him. Something's off. Like, I don't know if it's still the oblique. I don't know if it's the ankle, maybe it's all of it.

But if you look at his arm talent, and this is a guy that was touted as being one of the strongest arms in the country. The way he's like blooping the balls and like just putting a lot of air under him. When was the last time you saw him rifle a ball or was like, oh, that's a ball that jumps off your arm. I haven't seen it this year. And it also goes to the depth of target, you know, statistics that are out there, they are calling plays

differently for him. So like I think Clemson's defense, if they can keep him in check, which he's been struggling, I don't think it's that hard to do, I think this could be right for an upset. So I do like Clemson this one. I think there's a lot more pressure on Texas too, a team that again, their two biggest games they lost against opponents that were equal to them or potentially better. Yeah, look, I agree on the yours part of it. Um, not to say that he hasn't taken a few deep shots, like when they were trying to come back and the, the field goal, like he was getting the ball out, but it just doesn't seem like he's the same and the numbers are backing up. Like there's a very clear line in the sand of like, when he comes back from

the injury, it just hasn't been the same, but I think lost in all of this kind of stuff with Texas losing to Georgia twice is that it feel like their defense is just completely overlooked. That defense is filthy. And you know what they did to A&M, I know the score is 17-7, but the only seven are on the pick six. They had the other like, it probably should have been give them two field goals instead of 14 in the red zone. Cause they had the two turnovers, but it's probably like a 21-nothing game at their place.

So that defense, I think is pretty special. And even though Clemson's offense has clearly figured some things out after some years there where you're like, what is wrong with these guys? All right, that's cool. I like the under in that game too, because of what you're talking about.

I think Clemson's defense will have some success. Cade Clubnick's legs, I think could play a part and Bryant Wesko. They should. He's just coming off a huge game. If that could be a confidence booster, he's kind of a difference maker on the outside, but he's been very erratic and injured some of the year too. No, he's a stud. I mean, it's always weird when there's certain programs you're like,

where's the Clemson receiver? Where's the difference maker? I mean, that whole run was just littered with dudes that were, that were better than everybody's defensive backs. Uh, I think the Tennessee line is huge here. And I can't figure, like there's a very classic, like Ohio state, just when you're doubting them.

But I feel like this is kind of two years of, they're not really this physical dominating present. I know they've had the O-line issues, but Tennessee has some dudes on the front where I would expect this to be a competitive game. It's seven and a half. I just don't see an Ohio state blowout against Tennessee. So I think if you're Jim Knowles, you are selling out to stop Dylan Sampson, who's been one of the best backs in the sec and you're Jim Knowles, you are selling out to stop Dylan Sampson, who's been one

of the best backs in the SEC. And you're saying good luck, Nico. You're on the road, you're in the cold. And you've been around, you've been up and down this year, you're young. Like I put it all on him. I think you bring pressure and maybe it's pressure to stop the run. But you put your secondary on some islands and take the risk and say, go ahead and do it.

So, and I think that's what they will. And I'll think they'll have some success doing it. You know, like it wasn't like, I don't know, the Michigan game to me, I'm not that bothered by. I absolutely hated the way that Ryan Day approached that game, like putting more pressure on everybody. Like, this is like the death of my dad if we lose. Like it just, you could sense a pressure and a stress around Ryan Day at media days this summer in Indianapolis because of that game. Just like had so much

buildup. I thought they played tight. Now how do you fix that? I think one, it's not Michigan, so that helps. Two, everyone's doubting you now. So you tell them that in the locker room, it's not, you're supposed to win this game we have to win it even though they're favorites you're telling your players you know everybody thinks you're done everybody thinks you're no good so you're trying to play some of those mind games with them but again I think this comes down to I hope they don't try to prove their physicality because I think they did that somewhat against Michigan. Just be who you are. You're physical, but your offensive line has been banged up.

Let, let Jeremiah Smith get out, like give him chances. Let Will Howard throw, you know, work in the run game with your backfield, but you've got to call a game that at least opens it up somewhat and a little bit more aggressive. Cause I thought they played a little bit tentative and it's hard cause Will Howard had a couple picks and he's been up and down,

but they need to play aggressive and open up this offense or else it will be a tight game. And if they're gonna, and good luck trying to do it against Tennessee's front. Like I think they're gonna have to put it on Will Howard's shoulders, which if you get the version that you had against Oregon on the road, then they can,

they could win and cover this thing and win by 10 points or more. They win the whole thing. I mean, if they were gonna get that kind of, and I actually completely agree with you on just opening it up. Like you've got all these receivers. I feel like in the Michigan game, you're like, I would be looking for Jeremiah Smith, every single new set of downs.

Like just, I don't even care. 50-50 ball, just throw it up and let it go to chance. Like instead, okay, cool. We're just running to the Michigan defensive line here again. And if you go back at the, the game that comes to mind for me is Alabama, Tennessee, because Milro missed a few guys that were wide open. I think you can get them.

I think you can get Tennessee secondary. And I also think that's the game where I'm like, good luck, Nico, because he missed some open guys too. He had the great touchdown pass to win the game, but there were a lot of plays left on the field by both those quarterbacks. That's why I think you got to challenge them. You got to put it on some of your playmakers on the outside.

This is the best and McShane and I have talked about this even after the Oregon loss is the best I've felt about Penn State in years. What'd you think about Pribula leaving? Well, I think it sucks, but I look, here's a very good example. So you see both Pribula, the backup who they use in all these different ways. And he's just fun. You can tell like this guy, who knows what he's going to be like if he's dropping back and throwing 30 passes, but it was just a nice thing to have. Um, cause he's a stud sick athlete.

So when I saw the headline, I was really disappointed. I'm like, he's not, he's already transferring. And then I read even more about it. And I feel like he was like an impossible spot because of the way the portal thing is aligned that he's like, I don't know about it and I feel like he was like an impossible spot because of the way the portal thing is alive. That he's like, you could wait, you could have some agreement in theory, but we just know how things go, man.

And would a college that he wants to go to keep his seat warm with it, that all sort of agreed upon and then he gets to stay at Penn State. So I think it has way more to do with the rules and the circumstances and the NIL and the agents and all this stuff flying around that he was almost by today's standards forced to do something that it seemed pretty clear that he did not want to do. Um, so I had a problem with it when I read the headline, I had far less of a problem with it once I researched it.

Clearly it's the system's fault, right? The calendar is so out of whack. It makes no sense. The fact that you have signing day, the week of the championship games, the fact that the portal opens December and it makes zero sense whatsoever. I still wish you would have stayed. Like I still think you find a way to work it out. You've got agents that are it's moments, like any free agency where you see guys

signed at 1201, like you could have the deal going. Devin Brown's in the portal for Ohio state. He's finishing. Like he's like, I'm going to finish. I thought Dillingham at Arizona state handled this the best. Cause I, the other thing I don't know, James Franklin might've been like, Oh, you want to leave? Go. I don't want you.

Like some coaches might have that. I have no idea if that's Franklin's mindset, but he might've, you know, got wind of this and said, see you later. So I, I just, I hated it from the perspective. I hate the love letters. I just can't take them anymore. Like when you, you know, you profess your love for your teammates and then you're gone. I just, I don't love the optics of that. Just hit the portal, like go get yours, go get paid. But I don't know, that was, that was the thing that bothered me more. But it's very clearly it's the portal is the problem, the calendar of it.

But what's crazy is they've been using him. Like, and I think that means maybe you see even more Tyler Warren because they would have a package for Tribula to come in and run, you know, be a little bit quarterback run game in the red zone, which I think Tyler Warren will take some of those reps. But we did see Drew Aller get hurt against Wisconsin. You know, like that's in last year, we saw Malik Murphy exit before Texas played in the playoffs and it was fine.

Quinn yours was healthy. That's to me, what becomes really problematic is if something happens to our, you're in, you're in like, you're in big trouble if that happens and that's where I wonder if he would regret. I don't feel like I ever saw enough from him to even know what he would be like dropping back for 30 games, but it's an awesome. Are you in McShay sold on our, I like them more than, um, Carson Beck. Uh,

I like him more than this version of yours. I like him. Yeah, I do. Uh, you know, last year, the, the no interception thing was to me a huge problem because it just meant he was like scared to death and I don't really love their outside. This is two years. I mean, other than Tyler Warren, the receiver situation of Penn State's been pretty disappointing.

Look, I don't think he's, this first round draft class is gonna be really weird because it's gonna be the two guys and then there's gonna be a gap and then, you know, I see Millrow going in first round mocks, which I can't believe. I've seen Beck and some of them still, Wigman had one of the top grades going in as a draft prospect and now he's out of there too. So I know Allard said he's coming back and people were kind of making fun of him. Like, oh, you're coming back. Like no one even cared. I like him. I'm not in love with him, but I like him better than a lot

of the other options and now he's not even an option. Right. I felt like the USC game was his breakout game and then it's sort of like you didn't see that again until the Oregon game. Like there were a couple big plays he had to make and it was Gar. I know they were trying to come back so it put more on his shoulders. The fourth down play for him. Like I didn't think, I don't think Penn State's making that fourth down. No. No, I just, like, ah, they're not gonna get it. So, you know, I know everybody wants perfect all the time with some of these guys, but between the SC game,

I think even the Minnesota game, and then certainly the Oregon game, like again, I like, I wouldn't have my head of the other two guys, certainly, but I like him. Like to me, he's not a concern anymore. Like to me he's, he's a massive, maybe not massive, but he's just an advantage. Like you've got a guy back there who's played a ton and who's been through a lot. Cause I thought he was shot last year, just shot.

So SMU, any chance in a non-Canel way? No, no, I, this is the game I probably have the biggest fear of. Like I don't, it's probably the least likely one I would say as an upset. Um, you know, SMU on the road in the cold, can they, the physicality and they've done, they've done a fantastic job, like getting up to speed in the ACC. Like they did recruit for, and they hit the portal to try to boost up their offensive and defensive line. Um, and they did a pretty good job hit the portal to try to boost up their offensive and defensive line And they did a pretty good job against Clemson

You know shutting down their run game But I think trying to shut down Singleton and Allen's gonna be a completely different ballgame like and you were talking about the Penn State The physicality of Penn State I think could be a problem now Rhett Lashley is a great offensive mind I just I worry about sort of a quarterback like Jennings who likes to get out of the pocket a little bit if it is cold weather. Like I just, I don't see this one as one of the ones I would circle for an upset. Jennings is gonna wear you out.

Like he's gonna wear out your defensive line even if you're more talented than the opponent because you're just, you're constantly dealing with this guy keeping plays alive in ways that it's just, I mean, every time I've watched SMU, I go where the, how did he end up there? Right. Like that's, that's the launch point. How did, how did he end up in this play over there? But look, Penn State pushed Oregon's D line all night long.

It just, the problem was that Oregon was going to get the football back. Um, but I, I like Penn State. I like them in this tournament, if you would let me say that. All right, final one here, Indiana, Notre Dame, and then we get your pick for the overall thing, and I'll show you mine as well. I know that I was really hoping for the Indiana SEC matchup, just because I wanted it.

I wanted to see it. And then it feels a bit like, oh, well, they get Notre Dame. And I think all of us are literally, I don't know if we're all guilty of it, so I don't want to speak for everybody, And then it feels a bit like, oh, well, they get Notre Dame. And I think all of us are a little bit. Yeah. I don't know if we're all guilty of it, so I don't want to speak for everybody, but just because of like the way you think of the cliche Notre Dame thing. It's like, oh, well, Indiana doesn't have to face like all these crazy. SEC athletes and they get Notre Dame, but it's like, okay.

But if you watch Notre Dame's offensive line this year against Indiana's D line that has like the one guy that's integrated as a second rounder, so this may be all of us are just kind of falling into this Midwest bunch of Midwest dudes like perfect matchup for Indiana and it might actually be a bad matchup for him because of that O line for Notre Dame. It could be I think a bad matchup for him because of that old line for Notre Dame. It could be. I think Notre Dame is too one-dimensional. I don't love Riley Leonard as a passer.

What happened to him? Cause you loved him at Duke. Is that guy gone? No. So he's, I always, I love him as a young, like he's a great kid. He's a great athlete. I thought he would continue to progress as a passer. Like I thought it might've been in him. And then you give him better weapons.

Like you give him some opportunity. I just don't, I think he's got his limitations. So Dusty on the radio called the game against Clemson where he upset, you know, where Duke beat Clemson when Riley Leonard was there. And I remember him saying, and I asked him about it during the game, even Duke's coaches were like,

hey, he needs to really work on his passing game. Like the arm strength is a little limited. He's got to take that next step forward. And this year he's been okay. But I still just, I don't, I think they're two, one dimensional. Like if you can take away their run game, which is a big if, but I do think Indiana's defense is better than we think, like they did a pretty good job against Ohio state.

Like they didn't lose that game because Ohio state was just, Yeah, I saw your tweet on that. You also like the tweet was definitely misleading, but it's not like they got pushed around on the field, right? I was definitely leaning into my narrative and I had some stats to back it up. Well, they were flawed because as soon as you post that, I'm like, why is he doing this? He played like you were, you were looking at total yardage, which conveniently leaves out the punt return and the fact that Ohio state was basically down three possessions because of the turnover

short field and the return on special teams. So like when you do that, like, I can't believe he's doing this, but I can, but I can. But they did a pretty good job against, like they didn't get run all over. I think people thought they were going to get, oh, Trevion Henderson, Quinchon, they're just going to bowl them. They're just going to run all over. I think people thought they were going to get, oh, Trevion Henderson, Quinchon, they're just going to bowl them, they're just going to run through them. I don't think they did that. I thought Ohio State was like, these guys have no chance, none whatsoever.

There was one drive Ohio State had. So that's what concerns me. So I thought they had no chance from Curtis Rourke. Like that offense looked completely shut down. I thought their defense actually played okay. Their offense, I thought was embarrassing. Like that was what I thought was oh boy They can hang with these big boys. That's why that's the biggest challenge

I think in this game for Indiana's can they score points? I think they'll have success like control and not not giving up a boatload of points to Riley Leonard and company and Jeremiah loves Banged up like I and I they got that to me is a pretty significant Potential, you know injury that Notre Dame's dealing with yeah but And that to me is a pretty significant potential injury that Notre Dame's dealing with. Yeah, but when love- You sound like you like Notre Dame, but you're picking Indiana.

I'm putting it on my bracket. The bracket's just a work of art. But look, Jaderian comes in for love and he has a hundred yards behind that old line against SC. But the problem, I think you're right. Well, you're not, I don't think, you are right about the one-dimensional part of it. Maybe they were just smoking all of these teams. It didn't matter. They're going to grind everybody out. But their top two receivers combined for 60 catches two guys, right? 60 catches a season, right? And that's that to me is a bit but in Indiana, they they have to take away the run and make it make Rylan Leonard be too. And what else is going to be interesting is the weather in this game because that's where I like I don't picture Indiana lining

it up and running so Curtis Rourke has to have a good game because I think Serrat's a really good receiver. He didn't he had a couple drops against Michigan. They didn't do I mean but Curtis Rourke was running for his life against Ohio State like they have to do a better job protecting him which he might but they had schemed up some things early like they they've got to continue that, you know, offensive success. And I think it has to come through the air, which makes the condition pretty interesting. If it's cold and snowy, which this one is the coldest and snowiest of all the. Forecasts, I believe.

Like, I don't think that favors, like if it's, if it's ugly at game time and it's cold, windy and snowy, I am hating my pick of Indiana upset Notre Dame. Yeah. Cause it'll be, that'll be another thing. It's like, it'll be good talk to me hating my pick of Indiana upset Notre Dame. Yeah. Cause it'll be, that'll be another thing. It's like, it'll be good talk to me. Like, oh, this is perfect for Indiana. Like they're like, this is exactly what Notre Dame is going to want. Right.

Like, cool. We're just going to line it up, try to run it at you the entire time. All right. What was your final two then? And who do you have one in the whole thing? I guess call me a prisoner of the BCS. I have Oregon, Georgia and the final, which I'm kind of bothered by because when I made this, so I've stuck with the same bracket have not,

have not like have not wavered since like 15 minutes after the bracket, you know, they put you on, you know, on TV and say, Hey, what are you going with? And I was like, all right, I'm rolling with these. And it did not know what was going on with Carson Beck. And I guess to some extent we don't still but I Just think their defense is good. I think the path is pretty good Like so I have Indiana advancing through Notre Dame and even if it's Notre Dame I'd still would like Georgia and then match up with or without Carson Beck and maybe even a little bit better

With Gunnar Stockton back there and then against Penn State I don't trust Penn State to be able to do much against George's defense. That would have to be a drew hour, like come of age type of moment. And maybe he has it. Declare a draft. That one changed my mind. I'm out of here. I have, I have Oregon over Penn State.

Well, I just, the bracket, I was just trying to like feel it and go through it. But I could also see myself After first rounds of games like kind of changing my mind about but whatever I had to put in my bracket I had to do it. Okay a couple a couple things I want to close with here. I Know that your camp was was really excited about the Cal Auburn results The USC results. LSU. Great opening weekend. Right, it's great opening weekend.

Do you know the final records of the Power Four against each other? Do you know those? I've seen them posted. I've seen them out there. I don't have them memorized like you do. So the SEC, Big 10, Big 12 12 ACC against the other three. Yeah.

ACC 10 and 12, but you know, give it to them. They schedule them up. That's right. 22 games. That's actually not that bad. I would take that all day long. 10 and 12 is not bad. Hey, there are years I was arguing,

but hey, look at the ACC draft pick totals. Like how come they're not, it was, it was frustrating. Be like, what's up with this ACC? Look at all of these draft picks, uh, because there was a bunch of years, again, years ago, where they were, they were a lot of them in the first three rounds, which are more important. Yeah. They were all the players. Uh, the big, big 12, five and nine, um, the big 10, seven and nine,

lesser game scheduled, but as you could see, any big 10 fan that never defended the pack 10 when they played the ninth conference game that somehow is thrilled to get an extra game against the bottom of the big 10, as if that's some massive statement of competition. Seven and nine, the SEC went 13 and six. So. One of those is against wake forest when old miss demolished them, which

do you want to do that? Do you want to go through the ones that aren't that good? What do you want to congrats? I just, I just remember earlier in the year, the Cal Auburn one was like a big, you know, this, this conference might not be that good. I also saw, no, no, I'm not done yet. Okay, okay. I also saw another tweet after the Heisman

where you had said, we looked through all the finalists. 10 guys! Did not have any SEC names, right? And you said in a very coy way, notice anything missing. I mean, I thought the best conference, you just called him like, well, I thought they'd have the best players.

Let it have some playmakers. So is your position that Heisman winners, Heisman finalists reflect conference strength and if you don't have those perhaps conference weakness. Is that what you're saying? That could be a pretty good hypothetical. I could be I like that scenario. I have never you've never heard me say the SEC is not the strongest. I've just said we have to stop. You do a bad job of saying it. How much better they are. Like the dumbest thing I think the ACC and big 12 did was passing on the deal. That would have been three, three, you know, automatics, three from the SEC, three from the big 10, two from the big 12, two from the ACC, one automatic qualifier and one or excuse me,

one at large and one group of five. And then like that is guaranteed. Like if you know, you're going to get screwed, which they are because they don't have the money, they don't have the resources, just tell me how bad you're going to screw me. And they said no, which is why they almost got one team in this year. I thought it was a horrible decision to pass on that deal and they had it on the table and said, no. I think our longstanding issue is that for a decade plus of doing this, um, you say it's the best

and then you shit on it for four months. That's to make sure that we don't have six teams in a 12 team playoff. That's why. Do you think you're important enough? Like, do you, when you send a tweet, it's just pure propaganda right. That you think like maybe one mind can be changed today.

Absolutely. Definitely. And if it gets to Ward Manuel, all I need is somebody to just tag Ward Manuel on it or any of the other committee members just to bring their attention to it. So I feel like that is my goal in life. I think it is. I think that's psychotic to think that you have that much influence that when

you send the tweet, I'm like, I think he thinks maybe there's one person in the community is like, yeah, cause your, your target is impossible to hit. It's, it's the best, but then you're vague about what the gap is. So I imagine on your tombstone, you'd want it to say they weren't that much better. Yes, that's exactly what I would put. That would be it. By the way, I think we can agree on this and we cannot agree on one thing. If I was in that committee room, we would

need to televise it because that would be entertainment and you know you would want we should you and I both should be in that room making the cases because then that would be must see television and you could take the pro SEC stance. I'll take the pro everybody else. I would take the pro truth stance. I'll take the pro everybody else. I would take the pro truth stance. I would argue. That's all I'll use as facts. I would argue about what I saw the previous Saturdays. Was there somebody on there that was in the SEC?

Did I lie about that stat? You fight earned bias with delusional bias. That's where I think there is a disconnect and it almost got personal. We didn't even know if we were gonna have you on again, but I'm glad that we did, buddy. I absolutely hate that Boise State is sitting there with a three seed and a bye.

So do I. That's the dumbest thing we've ever done. Like it's the dumbest. And now we're talking. And you know, hey, I have been group of five Danny, right? 2017 UCF national champs. Let's go. But to give them a three seat is an absolute joke. Like that will get it changed though, because it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Um, but that, that, that, I don't even know if people got that upset about it.

Like it's ridiculous that they're getting that much of an advantage. We spent so much time on the sec in Indiana and then the ACC thing of them. The bracket came out. You had guys going, excuse me? Like what's ACC thing of them, the bracket came out. You had guys going, excuse me? What's going to happen when it was automatic bids for those scenarios? I didn't like it either. And I don't like it for anybody. It's, it's, it's simply, we will have a year where some team goes, it has four

losses that wins their conference. I mean, not likely, but you're going to have a really bad conference winner or in this case, the group of five. Where can we hear you and Dusty? So the listeners know. SiriusXM, 6 a.m. to 9 a.m. Cover 3 pod 2, CBS Sports. And now for the first time on TikTok at D Canell, watch out for some firetakes and some pretty cool dances. Dance videos and college football. What else could a gal want? Thanks Danny. You got it.

He is the head coach of the University of Vermont's men's soccer team, which is now national champions. And he joins us, it looks like from the facilities up there in Vermont. It's head coach Rob Dow. Thanks for doing this man. Congratulations. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me on. Super excited to be here. So your background, you know, I've gone through it and looked at it and I know when you took over a few years ago and you've actually been kind of building to this moment.

Um, so I've maybe before we get into the full timeline stuff, I mean, it's only been a couple of days. Like what's it been like? Well, I've got to be home and spend some time with my three week old son, um, cuddling with him and this type of thing. So immediate distraction. Other than that, you know, we had a really cool police escort from the airport to the campus. And then everyone's stopping on the side,

got out of their cars, waving, cheering. Kind of feels like we're a big deal here. So I know that will continue. And Vermont's such a small place, you know, and that's what makes us unique and their fans are amazing, the state is so supportive and we'll just, we'll bask in this for a few more days. Yeah, I can only point to like a couple of the memories that you have, you know, when you go to a place like Vermont, it's really special, but then I travel all over the country for college football

and sometimes buddies would come with me and they'd go, did we make the wrong decision? And I'm like, no, I wouldn't trade it for anything, but it's just, there's levels to it. And whether it was the frozen four with St. Louis team when I was a junior, I remember just all of us sitting around all day watching it and you know, it doesn't, it doesn't go UVM's way. Um, obviously with Brennan and that UVM team beaten Syracuse, like for, for a tournament win for that basketball program and then, you know, Becker's had a rolling and he's a friend, but to win a national championship at the university of Vermont, it's just, it's such a different level of probably

what all of our expert expectations were as alums. Like a lot of us don't even, like it hasn't even sunk in for us realizing that it actually happened this week. And I think that's what makes it more special at a place like Vermont. And I, you know, obviously I'm biased, but when your alums and your, the entire state,

like they're just not used to this, this is a whole nother level of accomplishment that I think a lot of people just would never assume could happen. Yeah. I don't need to remind Becker that, you know, getting a new gym is, is important or some of our facilities aren't, aren't like the ACC facilities, for example. Um, but it's about the people and you know, the, that's what lasts, you know, and I think that's what's super special about the fact that we

have this national championship. We all have this together and we're going to be able to get together in five years and 10 years and 15 years and still talk about being at the Final Four and traveling to San Diego, Long Island, Pittsburgh, North Carolina, and doing it all together and, you know, sticking to our trivia before our meals to see who's gonna eat first, who gets extra dessert, those types of things. And then the people here in Vermont, they just have the right values about support and community.

And we're lucky to have them as our 12th man on the field. So you take out Denver, I'm watching the game and again, I'm not a huge soccer guy, which I'll expose myself here pretty quickly, but you know, I know the deal has been the cardiac catamounts this entire run, but you're down one-oh, right? Marsha goes up one year. I think what you get the equalizer at the 81st minute in those, in those minutes when you're down one, nothing. Like I know you're thinking, okay, of course we have a chance, but like what's really going through your head.

That I need to schedule an echocardiogram after the actual championship game. That's not a joke. But anyway, look at that point, you know, you look at how we've been able to tie games by being down goals throughout the regular of the season. We've won an overtime. We've won him over time. We've won in dramatic PK over time. We've got PKs that we've won in the semifinal. We upset the two seed at Pitt, ACC powerhouse.

The wins are regular season. We've been through the most difficult moments and going down a goal, it just doesn't faze us. We're just focused on the next play. And we have this thing, every, every player was responsible for reading legacy from the All Blacks book throughout the summer. And one of their, their, you know, the biggest thing within their team culture is that

in the most difficult moments, their team needs to stay blue headed. And that's, you know, raise your awareness, increase your concentration and focus, but don't lose your cool. And we connected to that. That was one of the biggest things. We sat around in preseason up at JPEG to talk about our favorite parts of the book.

And there was a consensus that that's something that from our leaders and the team, we wanted to follow the season. Who knew it would take us to a national championship? But I was, I. Okay. There's some tactics that we needed to change. You know, we put Max Murray up top and out of the center back. Um, but we are confident we could score, you know, we could score. We could score at any moment, any period of the game as a coach for my health.

I always want to score first. Um, but it was never scared to go down and I knew neither are players. Tied up extra time and you know, the game winner and you know, as I'm watching, like, and I'm trying to figure out, you know, again, I didn't grow up with it. So I don't, I don't profess to even understand what you're doing, but like the right side to Kissel, it just felt like, okay, if he can win one of these, then we have a chance. And then the game winner is you're watching it and you can see the guy defending them is spent because I mean, so many of the kids are just exhausted

out there and you're like, if he can actually win this ball, like, did you see that play developing just thinking, wait, this could actually be it? Cause it almost played out in slow motion on television, but it just felt like it was a game of chess. win this ball. Like, did you see that play developing just thinking, wait, this could actually be it because it almost played out in slow motion on television, but it just felt like all he needs is to win this ball. And then I think they're going to get it. Yeah. It's been fun to go back and keep watching.

I watched it a million times. Our, our, uh, media team here at the university gets some really, really good shots and sort of the NCA. I got to, I got to turn off the phone, you know, cause I'm going to bed way too late. Um, look, part of the tactics of the game is we wanted to find one view on matchups against Marshall center backs. Now it's so rare in soccer now and how organized teams are to get breakaways. And you're right. They attrition of the game, the back and forth play, put us in more of those moments than on the flip side. We were defending in one-on-one matchups at the top of our box too.

And I just, Max Kistel is the fastest player, recorded speed within our team. They wear these trackers to figure that out. And when he got the head nod passed, I thought the defender would foul him. I thought he would, you know, it would be a red card, but you know, it's overtime. When he, you know, kind of missed that tackle, the sliding tackle and got through. It was like the longest, like three or four seconds ever. But Maxie Kistle is a goal scorer. He's a goal scorer.

We put him on in key moments to get that job done. He was certainly blue headed in the moment. Yeah. I mean, and then to add the extra into it where he's just like, let me make sure I just set myself up instead of just spazzing that you're like, okay, it's just me and the goalie and he's like, no, totally calm. Let me just get you offline here. And the game winner.

Uh, what was it like in the locker room right after that? Ah, I, I got to, I got to do media right after it. I didn't get in right away, But after that, we went in and the guys were still like on the walls, on the ceiling. We sing this song after every win. Hey, baby. I think you heard it on our social media as we had been doing it for like 14 years or so after every single win. But to sing that song for a national championship and the water bottles are flying. I wish we had some champagne in the locker room, but we waited for that at the hotel.

It's epic. I can't replace it. Never thought it would be that amazing. Just so happy that like the guys like Zach Barrett and Max Murray, who could play any other Division one program, decided to do their fifth year and stay at Vermont because it means more. This program means the most to them. That's why we that's why we're there the retention you talk about the transfer portal Everyone wants something greener on the other side and the LB sky said no, no, no, no We want to leave something special

before we depart UBM and That they did do you think your background? that they did. Do you think your background, whether it's Nova Scotia or playing at Maine, do you think that helps you understand Vermont better than somebody from another part of the country? Yeah, look, Halifax, Nova Scotia, it is, you know, it's a big city but I grew up in this little town called Cole Harbor. There's a few famous hockey players from there. One of them Sidney Crosby. But, yeah, no, and when he comes back, you know, to our small town, you know, he does a lot for our hockey association and just like our whole, you

know, this is one of the things that he said when I interviewed for the job, Vermont, is that I grew up with a, like a, I would say like a community center. They had two sheets of ice and a library and a pool and After every day of school, this is just where I went. I hang out with my friends, you know, open skate You know, you know, open skate, you know, free swim, this type of thing, or do my homework in the library. But this type of facility like brought the community together. And I compare that to what Patrick Jim, the gutterson arena is to Chittenden County. And I said, that's all I want for my kids,

is to grow up around these leaders, these mentors of Catamouts. And I've certainly been able to do that, but whether it's, you know, like this community center, but it's just a state that embodies like how important it is to establish a community environment, to be a great neighbor. And we're lucky not to have pro sports here in Vermont, the Catamont countries.

Lucky, but the persistent, you know, pride the persistent, you know, pride in the green and gold is something really special. But it's built on people that have great values and just want to bring people together and celebrate something that's really cool. You know, you had been on the staff for the audience that doesn't know this. You've been there for over a decade. And I know the previous head coach, Jesse had talked about like, Hey, Rob's kind of the guy, like tactically, our recruiting efforts, like as he was on his way out and then you get the job, like I was going back and reading the articles this morning.

Like he was, I love when compliments are specific, you know, cause it's very easy to just compliment people and just sort of broad vague terms and hey, this is what you're supposed to say. But everything he was saying about you was incredibly specific. But in that down period of not knowing who the head coach would be, um, I've known Jeff Schulman,

the AD for a long time. You meet with him and then what did you do to the team? I know you know what they did, but I want you to share it. Like as the team, what Schulman did to the team to introduce the new head coach. Right before I went in my interview to, with Jeff, I actually split my pants open. with Jeff, I actually split my pants open. I didn't know what that was like. So it was like a nice great icebreaker. Nothing else could go as bad as that.

I sat down really quick. The lobby was like laughing their heads off. Jeff just couldn't understand why. He found out a little bit later. Anyway, yeah, like Jesse Cormier, um, is a huge mentor to me and continues to, um, offer that and he's a really special person to me and what a man manager he is and the psychological part of supporting and growing players to be this really united team took a ton from him around that.

And as an alum, he's an alum. And he explained to me how important UVM athletics is to the state of Vermont and him being a Vermonter. So look, I appreciate those comments from him. Um, but, uh, a very important person to me and how I grew as a coach. I heard, you know, like I wasn't there for the announcement that I was going to be the guy. Um, I sure hope I was going to be. I had my, my, or my firstborn child, Hanson was, uh, I think a month and a half old at that time.

And Jesse's calling me like, hey, man, you want to come down to Florida with me? You know, the Florida Gulf Coast? And I was like, my wife's a New England girl. I don't know if I could convince her. And there was just, my wife and I made this decision that we're going to go all in for this job at Vermont. And I think that meant a lot to Jeff in this process. So he told me he was going to get the job and he actually went in to the team first.

And it was called the Bostwick Room before we did our renovation here. Had the whole team sitting down and he announced that Rob Dow was gonna be the next head coach to the University of Vermont men's soccer team. That team erupted, you know, and we're so happy and I was so lucky

that the team supported me. Um, they did a lot, you know, to help me, you know, in the interview process. And, um, yeah, there was lucky, just lucky guy. And that was almost eight years ago and here you are a national champ. So I think, uh, I think it worked out for everybody. So as you said at the very top of this and everybody knew, cause it was part of the broadcast, it's not just the change in your life. The mustache, the tournament mustache here, which I got to tell you is working. I I'll go out now and I'll look around and be like, I might be the only guy

without just the mustache now. So mustaches have been back in for a while. But you just had a kid, you just said it. You've got a newborn at home and then boom, you're off to the plane to go win a national championship. Does this mean that you're a national champion everywhere except within your household? I'm in super debt in the household.

My wife had no problem passing my son off to me at one o'clock this morning. Yeah, no, no, no. Like where it takes a village. It really does. My wife deserves a ton of credit, the support. Look, Russell is my three week old son's name. He was born on Thanksgiving morning.

And I left the 9.25, had a couple hours, then we're left on a plane for San Diego at 4 p.m. So perfect timing. Couldn't have drawn up any better. We've had so much help from my in-laws coming and supporting us. My brother showed up down in North Carolina. Small businesses around Chittenden County offering meals to help us out. Friends and community members are offering to drive my eight-year-old son to hockey practice and hockey games just to lighten the load.

Um, it's another example of how tight this community is. Well, look, I love your story. Anybody that spends any time going through it, but I mean, this is real. You guys have put together more tournament wins than any other team in the country in the last three years. You've recruited at a higher level. And for one night it all came together And just on behalf of a bunch of buddies on a text thread and all of us that went to school there that, you know, at times it probably felt left out during some of

the national title chances. Uh, this was, this was awesome. It was, it was a moment a lot of us never thought we'd experienced. So thanks. Well, thanks for having me on and for continuing to wear in green and gold with pride. Love the Katamak country. Alright man, we'll catch up this summer. Sounds good.

You want details? Fine. I drive a Ferrari, 355 Cabriolet. What's up? I have a ridiculous house in the South Fork. I have every toy you can possibly imagine. And best of all, kids, I am liquid. So now you know what's possible. Let me tell you what's required.

I know we just finished up with UVM head coach, the national champs. Soccer. Yeah. The soccer guy there for a couple of nights, watched the Denver game and then came back for Marshall, they were down one. Oh, I was actually like bummed out. And then when they scored the time, I was like, this is what it feels like. This is amazing.

I forgot. I forgot what it feels like to, to care. And they want it and it was cool. And it's, it's just cool. You got to understand, like you can make fun of it it was cool. And it's, it's just cool. You got to understand, like you can make fun of it all you want. Maybe you should, but like for a group of guys that went to school together at all, keep in touch, we're just not used to ever being in the mix for any

of this kind of stuff, even though UVM soccer's, you know, had a nice little three year run here, but then to actually be national champs for the University of Vermont to be national champs in a team sport like this, um, it's just cool. And then just started thinking about like all the athletes, you know, which half of them were my roommates. Um, you know, obviously they get uniforms. I mean, I was an athlete too, but you know, you get it. Um, but I was just kind of like thinking about all the names, you know, just the

OG Berto, you know, some of the other hockey players that were buddies with, whether it was St. Louis, Perrin, Thomas, Rued, Sorge, Millsy, Jonesy, Smitty, Patrick Sharp, who I don't think we ever talked to each other while we were there, which is unfortunate because I think we would have been good friends, but I was just bartending, not technically enrolled in classes, I think at that time. The Czech guys, Pavel, check me out t-shirt, gave me that shirt, someone stole it from me. me out t-shirt gave me that shirt someone stole it from me all the lax guys whether you go from you know devil who can forget the playmaker wittaker gordo magurk when thompson called the

timeout when it's game-winning goal which sucked there's just a lot of different athletes big jenny sucked. Um, there's just a lot of different athletes, big Jenny, 23 Cho, that girl from the track team. None of us can remember her name. So yeah, this week meant a lot, meant a lot to all of us. So again, for a UVM community that doesn't get to have that many national championship opportunities, you know, just wanted to recognize some names. Okay. Let's do life advice. Are those real names? Like, I feel like.

They definitely are. I can tell you as a guy who went to a North East college, like Potsdam and was, you know, parallel. Oh me too. Cross paths with like lacrosse teams. And it was all something like a shortened version of a name. And there's an E at the end. Yeah.

Snorgy or like that wasn't that guy's name. That's just, it was like, that made too much sense not to call him that. Uh, so those are, I can guarantee those wrong names. No, but every, it feels like every hockey team has, there's a Joan Jesus, the Schmitty, you know, there's a, Miller Miller, but it's milsy for some reason. Well, it's just, it's just E, you know, it's, but then they're hockey coaches are like out of their minds.

Somebody's last name ends in it organically like Seruti. Then they don't. Yes. Like, well, you would be roots roots roots roots roots. Roots. We're back to that. Yeah. Greenberg. Yeah. Mike Greenberg was on it when he started. He was actually just given a hockeyberg. Yeah, Mike Greenberg was on it when he started. He was actually just giving you a hockey name. Yeah. I will say, yeah, I guess we're all small, Northeast, small to some degree, Northeast school guys.

And like when Quinnipiac won the hockey championship two years ago, it's just it. It's just an indescribable feeling because it's like, wait, people were talking about our school that you really is only known for like polling institutes You know, it's just it's very strange And you're like kind of on the map and it's just that I was kind of surprised at UVM You know, I was I was a little surprised they hadn't won a hockey one But to win the soccer one is pretty incredible by the way, they have like a handful of ski championships But I don't know why those aren't counted But I mean they are what do do you mean they're not counted?

Like, well, cause the broadcast was like, it's the first time UVM has ever won this. And then I didn't want to bring it up to Rob. Like, do you think you guys are overrated historically? No. How nice is that guy? I'd never talked to him before. I just love listening to the Halifax just leak out.

Yeah. You know, just, I should ask him, I don't know, was he friends with Sidney Crosby? I just love listening to the Halifax just leak out. Yeah, you know just I Should ask him it. I don't know. Was he friends with Sydney Crosby? Would they be about the same age because he's younger than I am Having a kid like a couple weeks ago and then going on this run to I mean, it's Also insane just would like to point that out. That's wild Stanford Steve. It'd be fine. I mean what? It's a different story. He's literally built different. He's built different.

Doesn't matter. Perfect, perfect segue because we got a few responses. Well, let's do a couple of follow-ups and then we'll save some lives. All right. This is the Kyle Unreal Call cheese waffles, top-notch snack, 40 bucks is low for what I would pay for a bag.

I knew somebody was going to get it out there. They were fucking unreal. Any plate hoops. It's slew. Oh shit. Love this. I love the St. Lawrence shout outs. Do a live show from St. Lawrence. I'm too old now. I will say to you, I don't know if they're built the same Felica had your back Kyle. Cause he texted, uh, Ryan and I, he bought, he spent $75 on croutons that I guess went on when the place went out of business, he just went on eBay and croutons for 75. Salads just aren't the same without them, right? Yeah.

Incredible. Wait, did Felica, did he text that to me? Me and you. Yeah. You didn't, you didn't respond. I responded. Oh man, Ryan, this is. Yeah. You didn't, you didn't respond. I responded. Oh man, Ryan, this is not good. I didn't even see that.

He was too wrapped up in, you know, the Vermont national title. Yeah, that's you have an excuse, I guess. Was it that night? I don't even think it was that day. It was Monday. Yeah, that's bad. If I like, there's plenty of people that I'm not gonna respond to right away. Sometimes I don't respond

and it's actually the greatest compliment because I don't have a thorough answer for you, but you know what happens then. Then it just means I, you know, but there are times where I get a text and I read it and go, I'm not ready to answer this right now. Yeah, I know. That's totally human.

Mark it on red. Yeah. Mark it on red. You have to. And then it'll stay that way for 17 days sometimes. I wouldn't get anything done without that. I used to always have it cleaned out. Like when I would see other people like post some screenshot

it'd be like 289 texts. Like what is wrong with you? Now I get it. Well, you're in four group chats and it's like, you'd be surprised what it looks like. You know, and you got to mute it because you know, you're doing stuff. So then you look back and you's like you'd be surprised what it looks like, you know, and you got to mute it because, you know, you're doing stuff. So then you look back and you're like, all right, this fantasy football league just had 50 texts out of nowhere.

It's been seven minutes. It's like, it can build up. I love not being on any fantasy threads. Yeah. That's awesome. I'm not, I'm not loving group chats these days, but you got to do it. It's about being about relationships. Well, there you go.

Perfect segue into some more feedback. Valentine's day live podcast, follow-up comment. Been with my wife for 20 years, married 15 out of it. Don't be a fucking baby. Relationships are about being flexible and being okay with some of the bullshit requests that each of you are going to throw out there. Give a little, get a little. Don't yuck her yum.

You know how many stupid things I've been to and had to do? Innumerable. But I love my wife and that's the whole goddamn point. I would do a million shitty bullshit things for her as she would for me. Peace and love. A million? Hey man, we had a lot of those. We had a lot of those.

Real Johnny Sack over here. What was my life? I don't wanna bring it up, but it did seem like most people were on my side on that one. Because like, yeah, listen, there's many, many kinds of- don't want to bring it up, but it did seem like most people were on my side on that one. Cause like, yeah, listen, there's many, many times. You didn't want to bring it up? Do you think my wife, Maddie, is like super pumped to watch the Lord of the Rings trilogy once every 18 months or so?

No, but it's a trade off situation. I bet she likes a little more each time though. She does actually. You're right. It's kind of grown on her. Especially if you start with the theatrical and then you're like, look at this. This is the extended cut. She's like, holy fuck, I didn't even know all this Lord. Yeah, I went out to like the bookcase DVD sets and let's go

Whoo, our weekend is booked Turn the air on A lot of people gave up on diehard after the second one. Let me tell you something after the second one. Let me tell you something. Okay, no, I get it. Does that mean you have to do everything you don't want to do for the rest of your life? There are some dudes that will do that. And that's 100%. And they'll do it like, you think so? There's some dudes that wear it like a badge of honor, I think. But I'm not that. I just think it all female podcast.

I feel bad for women that show up to my podcast. I like apologize to them, the four that make it. We think we identified one at the last show that was like jazz. And then, you know, there was a couple that were clearly doing their boyfriends a favor. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

I think there's also something on the other side of it. It's like, hey, if my significant other is going to hate this, how about I don't ask them? Yeah. How about I don't make. I think there's also something on the other side of it. It's like, Hey, if my significant other is going to hate this, how about I don't ask them? Go. Yeah. How about I don't make you do anything about that? Um, but yeah, we had a lot of those. It's, it's like a, is this a, is this a one-off thing or is this like, are you just miserable? You know, because you're being asked to all this shit you don't want to do. If it's like a one-off, just freaking do it, man. It's valid. I can't,

I just thought the weird part was that it was long distance, right? This way, if I'm recalling, if I can recall back to something two days ago, hopefully I can. Um, I thought he said it was a long distance relationship and it was like, sort of like, yeah, they were going to be in the same city. Yeah. And he was, yeah. And he was just like, maybe, maybe we could do something where we're not facing the same direction and shutting up for two. Like, I don't know. Maybe that's part of it. I could understand, be like, hey, I'm coming into town. I booked a flight or whatever.

He drove however it worked. And he was like, I was looking forward to taking you out and blah, blah, blah. She's like, actually, you know what? That's really nice and thoughtful. But I think what I would like more is that we could go to this thing that you would hate. So I guess I understand it. But you're right. Valentine's Day is rarely for the dudes.

And pick something you want to do then I don't know like Go to an NBA game. I don't know like I don't this isn't this isn't that hard. It's not You need stuff to do What are you gonna sit and you just gonna go out to eat all the time all four days You're gonna go out to restaurants and like sit and hold. What do you need stuff to do? This is something to do I think I think a great couple is ones that understand he, he's going to hate this. So I don't ask him to go.

And conversely, if I'm like, I got to tell you medieval manner, I know what it says on Yelp, but the food is way better than you would think. Just go by yourself. Yeah. I appreciate that. My wife doesn't ask me to go to see these breathy singers that are playing in a park somewhere, um, you know, that I just don't like. I, I, she, yeah, they're like the summit, like Hollywood forever cemetery.

And it's like, we've, we gotta get there early cause it's a free concert. And I did one of those and I was like, you might not ask me to do that again. And I'll find someone to go to John Mayer with. And she's like, deal. Like that's how easy it was. No, she, she went, but it was just like, it was like and I'll find someone to go to John Mayer with and she's like deal Like that's she don't want to tell me it was no she she went but it was just like it was like I'm not gonna drag You can a breathy. I know I know that I wrote the irony, but you know, it's world-renowned. So it's a little different Okay Let's uh, let's read a couple emails Wife's Christmas party. Hey guys, you fan of the pod 511, 240, only live

with dumbbells, recently started doing yoga for a bulky hip. It helped. Player comp 90s era Knicks point guard Derek Harper can move the ball around, play a passable point with a few moves to surprise you. My wife, let's call her Amanda, 33, was recently told by her boss at five years. I guess we're calling her, she changed the name. If you change the first one, let's assume he changed the told by her boss at five years. I guess we're calling her. She changed the name. If you change the first one, let's assume he changed the second one. Yeah.

Or Dana's on blast here. Her boss at five years, Dana 39, that she was closing her small interior design business as of the new year and would not be needed upon discussing with others. And reading the room, Amanda realized her boss is continuing the business and basically firing her to continue with the other two employees who've been around for much less time. Her boss did not have the guts to tell her the truth after five years. They've been close friends, which makes this difficult. Uh, and the company for four of the last five years was just a two of them prior to the new hiring.

She also helped with watching Dana's four kids when needed. Since she is a 1099 employee, she lacks any benefits from her job, including unemployment. My problem is this. My wife wanted to go to the Christmas party, the company Christmas party. Um, despite being let go, she also wants to invite her to our upcoming first birthday for our daughter. Am I wrong for not wanting anything to do

with this lady anymore? My wife is unemployed now, and we had to stop at our daughter's daycare since it was close to my wife's daily commute by her office. I understand they created a bond over these years, but I feel like my wife just doesn't have the confidence or self-worth to stand up for herself, and that Dana has treated her incredibly poorly

based on their history. My wife does not have many friends and did create a close bond with her boss which has me conflicted. Any advice would be appreciated." Well, sounds like you just have to do whatever she wants to do, man. I think you go to this Christmas party and you fucking say what you got to say. What do you got to lose? At this point there's nothing to lose, right? The Detroit Lions? All right, Sarudy, you didn't seem to like that joke very much when you started.

It's, whatever, it's fine. I kinda like Kyle's idea. Like this is, you know, clearly you've had this conversation with your wife, I would assume, about like you not agreeing that she should be cool with this person. I'm on your side, but if she doesn't have a ton of friends and she doesn't wanna lose that social circle, like that's maybe a bigger deal in this situation.

But I think you just go to this party and just be kind of an asshole. Or at least you just, you know, if she tried- Give me some examples. What are you guys doing? If she tried to talk to you. What are you guys doing? I think there's a moment when you're like,

you think we're fucking idiots? Like there might be like, I'm onto you. Maybe you're nicer about it, but you guys doing, I think there's a moment when you're like, you think we're fucking idiot. Like, like there might be like, I'm onto you. Maybe, maybe you're nicer about it, but you're like, have you ever said I'm onto you to someone in your life? Does anyone say that? That would be a great fucking time to do it though. You know what I mean? That's one of those golden opportunities. Or you just say like, Oh cool. You had the money to, you had the money to throw this party and yet can't even be honest with my wife. Wait, where's the correlation there? You had the money to throw this party?

Well, she basically laid your wife off and is still doing stuff and still continuing the business and is throwing a holiday party. Like why did you need to lay my wife off? Your friend. Why did you need to do this? Doesn't seem like it's a money issue and you can't even be honest with her. So that's, I don't know, that's what I would do. I'd spend my next five, six hours leading up to this party just thinking about how I'm gonna do this. Cool fucking one-liners,

doesn't seem like I'm trying too hard. Like I'm, like instead of my little type five that I sometimes practice in there, I'm singing a meet love song today, I would use that time to think about what the fuck I'm gonna do and how I'm singing a Meat Loaf song today. I would use that time to think about what the fuck I'm going to do and how I'm going to pull this off where it's going to be movie scene-esque or really nice Taylor Sheridan dialogue. I come in there and I can say, and I know all the stuff she said to me all those years when she's talking about work and stuff

like that. Now she's at this party, there is no repercussions. She's already fired. There's no losing of benefits or anything like that. She's already been boned. She doesn't see it. I can use my, this is my superpower and I'm going to find the exact right words where I'm going to be like, wow, that was like, you're basically like a fucking actor, how great you pulled that off. That's what I was doing the next couple weeks doing.

Used to celebrate birthdays with stone. And now we do it with cake. A symbol of how soft society is getting. Is that Yellowstone? What is that? I don't know. I was trying. I was trying. I wouldn't go to the party. I would tell your wife, or look, you want to go to a Christmas party? Fine. You got to pick one. You can't then invite her over to the first birthday one.

All right. So it's Christmas party or this, if that starts a fight, whatever. I think long-term here, you need to get your wife motivated to start her own design company. There's very low overhead on this. You get out there, you've got the contacts, you start undercutting this fucking woman. Dana, you start loading up the clients. Your wife's going to have business.

She's going to have her confidence back. Revenge 101. That was probably the best advice. Yeah. Yeah. I'd still be doing seats in the shower thinking about this though. I would go to that party. You guys would go.

I would not go. I just went to the Goop holiday party. Fucking awesome time. And there was a Ryan Riscilla guy there. So that was cool too. What does that mean? Guy that worked there was like, you know, did anybody ever tell you you look like Kyle? And I was like, yeah. And then we spent like 40 minutes talking about Ryan Russo podcast and stuff like that. So.

40. It's a long, long time. Yeah. But did anyone at Goop betray your wife? You just went to a party, dude. Couple of rounds, couple of rounds of layoffs, so those people are kind of gone. No, I know. I'm just saying I think it's cool to go do a holiday party. Although, I don't know. I mean, when's the last time the Ringer had a holiday party? Probably 2019. Like, those were fucking awesome.

Missed those. Probably never going to get them back. I enjoy the setting of a holiday party. I think I might even enjoy the setting of a holiday party a little more when it's your significant other's holiday party. You're like fucking free reign. I'm really not like- These are not, what?

Yeah, but you're missing the element of betrayal. You're just talking about going to parties, dude. What do you mean? No, I'm saying, and then you pick the time to do this thing. Or nerves. You pick, yeah, they were actually pretty good there. But then you pick the time to do this thing that you're excited to finally say to this boss.

Also, I'm a little confused. Is it a holiday party where there's three employees in this company? That's what is this like a conference? This is like a Michael Scott holiday party, like in the break room. I don't know. I, it sounds like there's low numbers. It sounds like there's really low numbers, but if you're, if you're, if you are 25% of the party or 20% of the party, I would not confront this person. If you, if you,

if you yourself is make up a good percentage of the people in the room, I wouldn't do it. But if there's, if there's a lot of people in the room, then that would be, or do you, do you play up to like, cause you know, she told your wife that she's closing down the design shop, right? So do you be like, Hey, you know, such as she just keep talking about how it's such a shame. It's going away and how much your wife that she's closing down the design shop, right? So you'd be like, hey, you know, such a, just keep talking about how it's such a shame it's going away and how much your wife loved this. And like, man, it was like,

it's so great that she could have you as the employee and just really guilt trip her the entire time into believing. I like that as well. Yeah. I, that's, I, I just, I feel I'm with you, Kyle. Like I would want to go because I would want to like, you know, kind of twist the knife a little bit. Only because she wants to go. If my wife didn't want to go, I wouldn't give a shit, but because she wants to go like, you know, kind of twist the knife a little bit. Only because she wants to go. If my wife didn't want to go, I wouldn't give a shit. But because she wants to go, like, you know, that's why I'm suggesting this.

Not like talking her out of wanting to go and success is the best revenge. It's like, listen, this is how she wants to do it. And I just got a little something I want to say too. And this will all go home happy. Right, but I think the part that stuck out to me the most was he's talking about his wife's confidence. And so since her confidence has been probably low prior to this, okay.

And dinged even more that there's a bit of this Stockholm syndrome of, well, I still want this person in my life after she didn't just fire you, she lied to you. And then kept it going with the other two people, which again could explore a whole other element of this conversation of like, is your wife bad at this job? Is, you know, whatever. But I think most of them- She made too much. Right. Very well. And it's like, this is a great move. I can just keep the young people and, you know.

Also a very good point. They don't even know that. To bring it up. Right. Right. But I would think, because I've seen this, I've seen this happen firsthand with girls as I know the work of design. Like once you kind of put together that book of business, you start getting things rolling, like the long-term play, fine, go to the party, whatever.

I wouldn't go. Uh, I would tell her why you should not want to go. And you should also worse than go to her party, not want to invite her to our, our baby's first birthday when somebody can do this to you. Okay. There needs to be a price paid for doing this to you in the way that she did it. And part of that admission is no invite to the fucking kid's birthday, but long-term it sounds like you would be better off if you want to just say,

yes, these things, cause she wants to do it, trying to find a way to get your wife to start feeling better about herself and have more confidence. And I think a more confident person in this scenario would likely go, I have, I want nothing to do with you. I will have nothing to do with you.

All right, did I instigate a bar fight? Hmm, uh-oh. Listen. This Monday, I met my mom at Buffalo Wild Wings to watch Ryan's bears. We could just stop reading. That's a, is that a perfect sentence? It's the best. There's so many smart people.

I know. Good writers. Like, I hope some people. I know. Good writers. Like I hope some of you that are really good writers and great at crafting some of these emails, I hope you use that. No, but I just hope you give yourself the credit for it. Cause like when I get a really well constructed email where there's like a theme and then it builds and then there's a twist, you're just like, man, there's a lot of people out there that are just really good at this stuff.

Um, all right. We moved to Texas from the Chicago burbs during COVID to be close to my wife's family. My mom moved there shortly after. So any chance we can get to see a Bears game together, we try to do it. We're sitting at the bar counter and this gregarious guy walks up next to us, asking if the spot next to us is free and then getting our names. He introduces himself as Edward and says, I know it's an old name. K guy. Jesus.

No, this emailer. Yeah. Yeah. K guy. That was like a Kyle. That's his internal monologue. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. He orders a double Woodford knee. Woodford two. Um, Ben Mendelson, a tall draft beer. So a double Woodford neat, tall draft beer and some nachos. So far so good. We come to find out he's a Lions, a Lions fan and he noticed me wearing a bear shirt and I say, you guys are really good right now.

You must be stoked. And he responds with quote, yeah. And I'm glad my quarterback doesn't paint his nails. No, yeah. And I'm glad my quarterback doesn't paint his nails. No, Texas. The number of people, by the way, they're doing a victory lap and the Kayla Williams sucks. It is, I think about the nails more than anything else. All right.

Um, okay. I say, well, you know, it's 20, 25. Is this email from the future? Who really cares about nail polish? He says, quote, last I checked men were supposed to play quarterback. He should change the number of his Jersey to XX and proceeds to explain XX versus XY chromosomes to us. Dave, he couldn't just let the joke live.

He had to be like, you see why this is funny is. He gets like, now I'm going to science you guys. Uh, so now he's changed the tenor of his interaction. My mom curls slightly toward me. I'm like like, now I'm going to science you guys. Now he's changed the tenor of his interaction. My mom curls slightly toward me as if to cut him out of the conversation. I can see he has clocked it.

A few minutes later, he stands up from the bar, turns towards the exterior door and just stands there for a while, noticeably swaying. He's had the double and the beer, but it's just occurring to me that he probably arrived three sheets, has added several layers to his drunken stupor. He's also the double and the beer, but it's just occurring to me that he probably arrived three sheets, has added several layers to his drunk and stupor. He's also displaying some ticks and vacillating between a smile and a scowl.

He sits back down waiting for his nacho and my mom gets up to use the restroom. So it's just he and I now, and for some reason, I try to make small talk. You tried again, dude. And instead of just grabbing our beers and moving to a table, the following is verbatim. Me. So what do you think of your coordinator? He's been linked to the Bears. Talking about Ben

Johnson. Edward, I'm sorry. I don't want to be rude. I'm sorry. Me, no, that's fine. Have a good night. Edward, where has he coached before? Me, I don't know. I'm not familiar with his history. Edward, exactly. Look, I'm sorry. I've played at all levels of football. All levels. I think based on his previously stated views on manhood and knowledge of chromosomes, he's intimating that any person who doesn't, who wasn't previously a player couldn't possibly be a head coach. Me, okay, enjoy your nachos.

He stands up again, turns towards the door, this time walks out, it's a side door, so it's reasonable to assume for a while at least that he's having a smoke or something, and his nachos have just arrived, but he never returns, sticking the overworked bartender who also has four tables with his tab. She brings over the manager and said

he was talking to these two, indicating my mom and me is if to try to pinpoint a motive for dashing. I firmly believe the problem is this guy and that I said nothing wrong, but I do feel badly for the bartender. So I add what would be a normal tip for Edward and ordered what would be a normal tip for what Edward ordered to my tip when I tab out. Also, my mom insists that she drive me to my car fearing this guy will jump me. So one, did I do anything to instigate this reaction?

And two, if you're going to Dine and Dash, why not at least have the nachos first? The fact that you're, this is an awesome email, but I'm guessing it's because you're from Chicago that you're feeling some sort of friendliness guilt here. This guy was obviously tanked before he showed up, dusted it off, and then it hit him pretty hard. And so either the whole plan was I'm going to order the nachos, debate them into the double Neat Woodford and free beer, or when he went outside a second time and he's not smoking,

do you know how drunk you have to be to like go get fresh air and then come back into Buffalo Wild Wings and do it twice? That probably the second fresh air intermission, it probably just hit him where he was like, I'm so drunk, I have to be out of here. But he didn't even remember the nachos, didn't care. I mean, look. That's an Irish exit if I've ever seen one.

Yeah, right. I mean, golly. A voice in his head was just like, leave, leave now. And he's like, yes, okay, okay, all right. And he just fucking walked off. The autopilot went off. Hopefully he didn't get in his car and drive, but he just. He did.

He 100% did. Yeah. The loudest voice was screaming leave, and he was like, yes, yes, yes. And that's what happened. That's what happened. Don't feel bad. What advice does he want? He could have done something differently.

He was like, did I do something to stress out this Buffalo Wild Wings staff? Did I hurt this guy's feelings enough that he left? No. No. Edward did a ton of things before you were even in the equation. Right. So guys that order a double shot and a beer, it's probably not their first drink of the day unless,

yeah, that's actually not true, but I think that- Unless, yeah, unless they need to catch up, right? Yeah, exactly. Overriding theme, emailer did nothing wrong. I think the only weird part is you think you potentially could have done something wrong, or maybe it was the guilt of when a Buffalo Wild Wings bartender points at you and being like,

those are his friends. Right, that's what he really started thinking. Yeah, this is your guy? I don't know, what'd you say to him, man? What did you say to him? What did you say? Well, you know, he doesn't like Caleb Williams. You brought up Caleb Williams to that guy?

What are you, nuts? You didn't know Ben Johnson's background? I'm gonna, you're gonna finish your drinks and you're going to leave. You know, I really thought Buffalo Wildlings had, was big enough in one of those places that, you know, they take your card, swipe it and give it back to you. Even like, even if they don't need to hold it down, I thought it was one of those places. It's just like, it's our policy. If you want to tap, we'll just, let me just swipe it. Give it right back to you. Or no all cash. Edward's all cash. Edward's all cash.

Or no cash. No cash, right? Okay, that'll do it for us. Thanks to Wargon. Thanks to Kyle. Thanks to Sarutti. Check out our YouTube page. They did not have bonus content this week.

Not shocked. That's on me. But check it out anyway. And please subscribe. Ryan Russo, the podcast ringer Spotify. We'll see you on Friday, two episodes Christmas week as well. Must be 21 and older, present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 plus and present in DC gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com. Call 888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org forward slash chat

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