The Scathing Atheist - 257: S*it Hole Edition

Episode Date: January 18, 2018

In this week’s episode, we pound on the president’s shthole , the humor of grabbing him by the shthole is lost on him completely, and Seth Andrews from the Thinking Atheist podcast will be here so this episode isn’t just one long poop joke. This week’s episode is brought to you by Ziprecruiter: The smarter way to hire. To make a per episode donation at Patreon.com, click here: http://www.patreon.com/ScathingAtheist To buy our book, click there: http://www.amazon.com/Diatribes-Godless-Misanthrope-Scathing-Presents-ebook/dp/B00J53FZFI/ref=sr11?ie=UTF8&qid=1396141562&sr=8-1 To check out our sister show, The Skepticrat, click here: https://audioboom.com/channel/the-skepticrat To check out our sister show’s hot friend, God Awful Movies, click here: https://audioboom.com/channel/god-awful-movies To check out out half-sister show, Citation Needed, click here: http://citationpod.com/ Guest Links: To donate to the fundraiser for Britt Hermes legal costs, click here: https://www.skeptics.com.au/2018/01/13/fundraising-campaign-for-britt-hermes/ To hear more from Seth Andrews, check out The Thinking Atheist here: http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/ To check out The MeMe Call Podcast, click here: http://www.memecallpodcast.com/ Headlines: Trump's Evangelical Advisory Council finds biblical justification for "shithole" comment: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2018/01/13/trump-evangelical-advisor-finds-biblical-justification-for-shithole-comment/ WV Bill would require all school districts to offer a bible class: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2018/01/16/west-virginia-bill-would-force-every-school-district-to-offer-bible-classes/ Mat Staver says Christians can't get a fair trial from a gay judge: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2018/01/13/mat-staver-christians-cant-get-a-fair-shake-in-front-of-an-openly-gay-judge/ Churches now get taxpayer funds for disaster relief: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2018/01/03/churches-can-now-get-taxpayer-funds-for-relief-from-acts-of-god/ Christian prophet claims that God will destroy Kim Jong-un unless he converts: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2018/01/11/christian-prophet-god-will-destroy-kim-jong-un-in-2018-unless-he-converts/ This Week in Misogyny: Chick-Fil-A owner kicks out breastfeeding mother: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2018/01/16/chick-fil-a-owner-kicks-out-mother-for-breastfeeding-her-baby-in-public/ Hindu woman dies because of menstruation phobia in Nepal: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2018/01/12/a-menstruating-woman-in-nepal-died-as-a-result-of-a-irrational-hindu-ritual/ Christian YouTube channel explains how to wear makeup biblically: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2018/01/13/this-is-how-god-wants-young-women-to-wear-makeup/

Warning, this episode has a high profanity quota and this sentence doesn't have any cuss words in it. It ramps up pretty quick from here. This week's episode of The Scathing Atheist is brought to you by Zip Recruiter. And by everyone's favorite Bitcoin-themed boy band. That would be New Kids on the Blockchain. And now, The Scathing Atheist. I'm Wayne. And I'm Paul. Here at Mimi Call,

we've taken note of a meme viralized by the Scathing Atheist crew. And as a couple of mimis who use memes as a jump off to dissect our modern life, we can assure you, we did in fact evolve from filthy monkey men. It's Thursday. It's January 18th. And I apologize for the Hawaii thing. I was just trying to close some porn tabs quickly. No illusions. I'm Eli Bosnick.

I'm Heath Enright. And from New York, New York, Secret Lair, Pennsylvania, this is The Scathing Atheist. On this week's episode, we pound on the president's shithole. The humor of grabbing him by the asshole is lost on him completely. And Seth Andrews will be here

so the episode isn't just one long shit joke. But first, the diatribe. Y'all seen that shit with them fires over in California and the mudslides? I don't know why them folks on the Weather Channel won't just call it what we all know it is. It's the apocalypse. I mean, you can say what you want, but when God starts sending down fire and the earth is swallowing people up alive,

it's pretty hard to deny that that's straight out of the Bible. And you know, God's starting over there on that coast because that's where they keep all the homosexuals and whatnot. And look at all the other signs. Bible says there's going to be floods and droughts, and there is. Bible says there's going to be wars, and there is. I mean, there's wars right up there in Bible country. Bible said there's going to be discord, and folks ain't going to believe in Jesus enough, just like what you see on the news. And them heathens on CNN can ignore it all they want. But I know that when Jesus shows back up with that sword in his mouth or however it is he holds it, I'm going to be heading up to heaven

to see Sparky and Meemaw while the rest of them sinners is burning in hell on earth. Now, there's something we've all heard a thousand times, right? I mean, I guess not all of us grew up in South Georgia, so maybe some of you guys are in the triple digits. But the point is, we've heard it. We've heard it enough that we can laugh it off and brag about all the various apocalypses that we've survived. We can scoff at it and silently fantasize about how awesome it would be if all those assholes actually got raptured one day. But the point is, we can ignore it. And it strikes me that our ability to ignore it might not be a good thing. I mean, obviously, we see how it's not good for them, right?

Most of it's idle speculation. Obviously, it's kind of the spiritual equivalent of deciding what you're going to do with your lottery winnings. Most of these would-be prophets don't have the conviction of a person who actually thinks the world is ending, right? They're still putting money in their IRA and planning next year's family reunion, and they're not setting extra places for the scorpion horse locust when they do. But there are people who actually do think the world is ending on account of Harold Camp

and told him so, and it's pretty obvious at a glance how bad it is for them. I mean, and it's bad for those folks on the periphery as well. There are plenty of Christians that might not be convinced that the world is in the process of ending, but they're ready to welcome it with open arms when it does come. And while they might still be investing in their own retirement, their carelessness about the generational equivalent betrays a populace that isn't worried about keeping earth around

for the long run. And what's the point in putting a lot of work into the sandcastle if you know God's going to come stomping over it like an irritated toddler in the next few minutes. But this isn't a diatribe about how bad it is to believe in the end of the world this is a diatribe about how bad it is not to believe in it because look screaming there's a wolf every hour on the hour doesn't decrease the likelihood that a wolf is actually going to show up you know the boy who cried wolf it might be the antagonist of the story, but it's the sheep that get eaten by the fucking wolf at the end, right? Because look, all them fires and mudslides in California, those are a sign of the apocalypse. I mean, not the Christian one, mind you, but an apocalypse nonetheless. They're signs of an apocalypse that's being aided, no doubt, by the lack of a generational retirement account that rapture

philia induces. But the zealots and fundies can't bring about the end of the world on their own. To really end this shit, they're going to need the complacency of a populace that's been listening to assholes shout wolf from the hillside for thousands of years. I mean, look, you and I recognize the difference between a numerologist saying he divided Jesus by the square root of pi and figured out the world's going to end on May 21st of 2011 and an international body of accredited experts interpreting climate data and saying the global temperature is on the rise. But to all too many people, it's just more of the same. Turns out it doesn't matter how many letters you have after your name or how many pens you have in your pocket protector. You can't tell the average American the end is nigh without them snickering back.

And it's hard to blame people for growing callous to it. Yeah, I mean, Armageddon isn't even the sole purview of religion anymore. Pseudoscience is always happy to provide a bullshit astronomical alignment or an ancient calendar that somehow failed to keep counting all the way to infinity that can serve as the catalyst for global destruction. I mean, anybody old enough to remember Y2K knows that even legitimate concerns can quickly be amplified into world-ending scenarios. So quite naturally, we grow accustomed to it. And when somebody starts talking about the end of the world,

most people just shut them right off. And most of the time, they're making a safe bet. But that's one of those bets you can only afford to lose once, right? I mean, no matter how many times you win it you can never assume it's a safe bet next time i'm sure you can safely dismiss the religious claims about the end of the world but that's because they're religious not because their claims about the end of the world you can safely dismiss religious claims about any fucking thing but somebody's end of the world claims demand your immediate attention now of course you already know that you and i stand outside that phenomenon like a couple of Cassandras. But there's this vast swath of the population that can't be bothered to

take existential threats all that seriously. And it isn't limited to the science denying fundamentalists through a combination of callousness, ignorance and optimism. Even rational people are capable of just kind of skimming over this threat. And there's a lot of shit we've got to do to solve this problem. But a prerequisite to every single one of those steps is getting people to take the problem seriously. I mean, it's the kind of sentence you can't even imagine having to fashion in a world free of religion. But global extinction is not something you generally want your society acclimating to. They're talking about you, Jesus.

We interrupt this broadcast and bring you a special news bulletin. Joining me for headlines tonight are those two guys from the intro, Heath Enright and Eli Bosnick. Fellas, the listeners are dying to know, what do you guys do during the diatribes? Oh, eat stuff, usually. Help Eli with his pigeon noises sometimes. Yeah, work on my pigeon noises mcgawk mcgawk i feel like we talked about that one it's work mcgawk that's a little dog okay all right in our lead story tonight from the giant gaping asshole file according to multiple sources the president

of the united states labeled several countries as shitholes during a meeting about immigration reform last week those countries are haiti el salvador and the country of africa that one and although that sounds like a pretty unchristian thing to say, Pastor Mark Burns of Trump's evangelical advisory board that he has defended the comment using the Bible. Because the Bible is great for hating brown people like African-American Pastor Mark Burns, for example. Just starts whacking himself in the face with it. It's not me. It's the book. I swear.

Yeah. Well, maybe he's whacking a Hait the face with it. It's not me. It's the book. I swear. Yeah. Well, maybe he was whacking a Haitian with the book anyway, you know, as long as that guy woke back up inside 24 hours, that then it would be fair. Fair. Fair.

All right. So quick background on Mark Burns. He's a prosperity gospel preacher and also a big fat liar about other stuff too for example burns claimed in his website bio that he had a university degree and also that he served six years in the army reserve both clearly false and uh it turns out that when you appear on cnn you're gonna be talking with people who can check on that yeah. Yeah. Also when you talk with pretty much anyone else. So Burns went on

CNN, got called out on the obvious lying, and tried to claim that his site got hacked. To put credentials? Yeah. Hacked. Apparently by the most insanely subtle long con, low payoff hackers yeah no shit

yeah well we just got done switching the red and yellow o's on the google logo what next guys all right should we hack this bitcoin exchange or hold on hear me out should we embellish the cv slightly of this pastor yeah and what's great is he repeated these lies through his mouth so yeah how the heck you got him to say those things that's some black mirror shit right yeah no shit yes so burns has been a big trump supporter over the last few years and he became an official member of Trump's first amendment erosion board in 2016. And just for the record, when asked if he thinks Trump is a racist, which is a reasonable question for the African American Trump supporter, pastor Burns responded,

quote, he's probably the most least racist person there is. Possibly my favorite quote about Trump. You know, a lot of the statements of Trump supporters only become true if you get super creative with your punctuation. For example, parentheses around most least with a slash in the middle. That's a true statement. You can math it out. You can math it out.

So the pastor appeared on CNN once again last week and explained how the book of Timothy agrees with Trump about the shithole countries. Does it? And continents, I guess, also. According to Burns, it says in I, Timothy 5.8 that shithole countries are worse than atheists. Really? Yeah. I mean, which has nothing to do with immigrants but stop trying to confuse things with logic trump's great makes no sense whatever he's talking about timothy i don't know

but point being trump's so racist he won't even take up the white man's burden like it's amazing he won't even do it he's beyond rudyard ki Kipling race. Like, show him that poem, and he's like, oh, Rudyard Kipling sounds like a shithole-loving hippie. What's next? I'm the president. I'm the president of the United States. A man who would have sent us into nuclear war, but he was busy golfing. Yeah. That's true.

Sorry. And in mountaineer-sighted news tonight, Republican State Senator Mike Azinger introduced a pair of bills to the state legislature last week that can only be interpreted as a concerted effort to make West Virginia such a cultural shit stain that the Civil War winds up being a break-even for the state of Virginia. SB257 seeks to legally

insulate mental health professionals who try to torture the gay out of children and SB252 would require every public school district to offer classes in Jesus being super awesome. Fuck you. Seriously, I don't understand why we keep these shithole states. Right.

Can we trade them out for Norway or something? Two votes. Also, I love that there are five SBs in between those two pieces of theocracy. Also, the bridge on I-95. Yeah, right. I love that there are five SBs in between those two pieces of theocracy. What are they doing? The bridge on I-95. Yeah, right. That post office needs a renaming. Torture children.

All right, so we're going to start with the Bible classes. Obviously, these fundy assholes have been trying to force the Bible down the throats of school children ever since we told them to stop. Luckily, though, the Constitution is on our side with this one. But here's their little bullshit workaround. See, there's no rule against having a class about the Bible, right? You can have a class where you talk about its cultural influence, its influence on literature, music, art, et cetera. And that's actually a good class to offer. It's like studying Shakespeare, right? I mean, it doesn't matter if he was a real guy. You should still know the stuff that's attributed to him. That's cool.

That's cool. No, exactly. Exactly. Study Shakespeare. It's a great way to land a job at one of those big podcasting firms. Study Shakespeare. It's good. Or at TGI Fridays.

They take a lot of Shakespeare studiers. Or a big podcasting firm and then at Tga friday's when we implode because patreon decides they only take bitcoin now i'm just saying i kept my flare buttons memento mori but of course now in practice classes like those virtually always turn into thinly veiled sunday school classes or not so thinly veiled Sunday school classes especially when they're fucking state mandated and hey you know what let me take a wild fucking guess here none of the West Virginia

school districts have a teacher on hand qualified to teach a class in Hebrew scriptures with an emphasis on artistic influence right what you end up with is what Kentucky wound up with when they did the same shit pending lawsuits a hundred years from now they're gonna be marching you end up with is what kentucky wound up with when they did the same shit pending lawsuits yeah

watch a hundred years from now they're gonna be marching around statues of kim davis with tiki toys right guaranteed holy shit fellers it's melting damn it ned for the third time that's just what she looked like so i have a little less to say on sp257 and not because it's less important um that's the one that seeks to protect gay conversion therapists but just that there's not much to say other than fuck you Mike Azinger your mindless and heartless zealotry has prompted you to publicly endorse torturing children for being gay and to announce to history that you are a callous vile contemptible repugnant thoughtless disgusting malevolentuded, obsolete piece of shit. That's all I had to say on that one.

Indeed. And in so close to self-aware news tonight, Christian rights activist Matt Staver angrily described a painting of an asshole this week, which he didn't realize was a mirror. Appearing on Crosstalk this week, Matt, who spells his name with one t so that everyone can be entirely certain he's a terrible person airwaves to warn everyone that andrew mcdonald

better not become chief justice of the connecticut supreme court because a gay guy could never give a christian a fair trial yeah, and that's probably true, but it's not really a gay guy's fault, right? I mean, can a judge sentence himself to death by stoning? Are you even allowed to? We'll ask Andrew, but I doubt it. I don't think it's like Air Bud. I thought this one through.

You know that friend of yours that's always cheating on their spouse, is always convinced their spouse is cheating on them? It's like that with bigotry as well, apparently. And that's what this story is about. Exactly. Yeah. So obviously, Staver understands that above all,

it's vital for a Supreme Court justice to be unbiased by their beliefs and lifestyle. Like, you know, Neil Gorsuch saying, quote, do you think that if you had an aaron and melissa klein or a jack phillips bakery or anything else like that where you have the lgbt clash with religious freedom or freedom of expression come before this judge do you think this judge is going to be open and fair irrespective of what he does to rule based on the constitution and the rule of law i don't think so yeah right because the founding fathers would be like, okay, time out on the penis cake.

What the fuck are all these women and Negroes doing in the courtrooms? Are we hanging them here? I mean, it's convenient, I guess. God, what a convoluted... That's one sentence that Eli just read. Holy shit! There are so many... Yeah, permanent sick. Oh, God.

And look, unless he thinks objectivity is contained in some kind of one-way ass hymen, there's no way he can both believe what he's saying and understand what objectivity means, right? I mean, instead, he just assumes everyone's as much of a bigot as him and uses the word impartiality to mean agrees with me. You can't just move the words like that. Right. I think you found it. And to be fair,

he's got a point. I mean, can you imagine how hard it would be for a black guy to think fairly and objectively about Dred Scott? I mean, except for Clarence Thomas, who would have just voted

however Scalia voted. He was the first. He was the first me too. Oh, Jesus Christ. That bit's double funny because he is accused of sexually harassing we appointed him anyways the whole thing either way i think we can agree that stavers got the right idea which is why all republicans will recuse themselves from everything ever forever yeah yeah all right well quick before elise clarence thomas comments turns into a

pondering of what that would be like we're gonna pause for a quick break and hand things over to my lovely wife lucinda a man wrote the bible a horse which one if it's a legitimate race cooking can be fun hey i'm proud of a man this week in massage Week in Misogyny. You know, sometimes as I peruse the ever-expanding files of assholery that make up my source material, I can't help but think that when it comes to religion, there is no right way to be a woman. Take, for example, Macy Hornig, who went to the soft open of a Chick-fil-A in her hometown in North Dakota, but had the audacity to bring her baby, which then had the audacity to need to eat. And as you've already surmised, no sooner did she start breastfeeding her child than the manager instructed her to cover up her baby or leave. Macy explained

that her baby wouldn't eat covered and she was kicked out. Now, the manager has since apologized, but maybe motherhood is the problem here. After all, babies are nothing but trouble. However, sadly for a 22-year-old Nepalese woman named Gauri Kumari Bayak, not being pregnant turned out to be the problem. See, Gauri comes from a Hindu tradition that believes women are so toxic during menstruation that if they touch a tree, it will forever be barren of fruit. So, you know, keep that in mind before you piss away anytime weeding your garden. Either way, this particular bizarre piece of bat shittery left Gauri in a hut without windows with temperatures close to freezing because everybody was afraid of her fruit withering powers. To keep warm, she built a fire in the windowless hut and asphyxiated from

the fumes because that was quicker than freezing to death. Interestingly, Nepal outlawed this archaic practice last year, but they allowed a one-year grace period before punishing people who broke the law, and this woman died for it. But Lucinda, you say, those examples don't affect me. They're in faraway shithole countries like Nepal and North Dakota. Surely a woman in the modern internet-connected world can escape religious sexism, can't she? Well, I'm sad to say that no, you can't. Even YouTube has sexism these days. I'll give you a minute to recover. This one comes to us from astute listener Morgan, who sent me a link to a channel called

Girl Defined this week, where host Bethany Baird and Kristen Clark dedicated 15 minutes of airtime on how to wear makeup, biblically. The summary, don't whore it up. It also included this chilling as fuck quote. So for me, when it comes to most things in life, I won't like black and white answers. I'm very black and white, and I want to know what's right and what's wrong.

Just tell me what to do and I'll follow it. And when it comes to makeup, I kind of want the same thing. Yeah, we wouldn't want you to think. So while I look forward to their upcoming video on how to get wet while staying dry at the same time, and while you try to figure out if that's a dirty joke or not, I'll turn things back over to noah heath and eli thank you lucinda and in disestablishment clausarianism news tonight fema announced on their website last week that you could go fuck yourself but to avoid the not safe for work triggers they chose to paraphrase that with a policy change that makes it clear that they will be spending your tax dollars to rebuild churches after disasters because who needs a first

amendment when you've got the trinity lutheran decision am i right in other news dave will be getting one percent of our gnp swell guy dave trust us okay just um just everybody knows what you're talking about describe gnp what is what is gnp? It's a fitness store. And cliff bars. So close. That's a component. It is. All right.

I did it. So the new policies come in the wake of widespread and uninformed outrage over FEMA's refusal to spend their limited resources rebuilding churches in texas after hurricane harvey and even the phrasing of the policy betrays the backward ass anti-logic that motivated that backlash quote non-profit houses of worship will not be singled out for disfavored treatment end quote because because you know how like when the government makes me buy my own milk just because i'm not a destitute pregnant woman they're singling me out for disfavored treatment. Racist. More like when the government doesn't buy you more milk to replace the milk you got for free from the destitute pregnant woman who can't afford to give you her milk. Closer.

Closer. It's like we kidnapped a bunch of homeless pregnant women. We stole their breast milk and gave it to Creflo Dollar for a jet party. And now we're reupholstering his jet. Yes. No, we've nailed it. Yeah, exactly. Now we have nailed it.

Now, the new FEMA policy and the press they put out around it specifically cites the Trinity Lutheran decision to justify it. the Trinity Lutheran decision to justify it. But as executive director of the Secular Coalition for America, Larry T. Decker, points out in a press release about the new policy, the Trinity decision was justified by the bullshit notion that the playground in question was a secular part of the church. Whereas FEMA is now talking about buying them new pews. He concludes, quote, it is frankly appalling but unsurprising to see the religious right exploiting natural disasters

to justify using FEMA like an ATM. End quote. And finally tonight, there can only be Un news tonight. Christian prophet Cindy Jacobs posted a video this week letting us know that God will destroy Kim Jong-un unless he becomes a Christian. At DPRK, this is God. Someone tell that fat kid in charge of your shithole country that I can create a button so big I can't even press it. Wait, wait. Not that, but really fucking big.

I'm God. Now, regular listeners to our show may remember Miss Jacobs for, one, looking like she has a Pekingese and witness protection on top of her head. Or her many prophecies and miracles. According to Jacobs, she has helped a woman grow three inches instantaneously. So, Lucinda, get on that shit. She's turned metal into bone and she's moved clouds out of a photo shoot because she can control the weather. In short, she's a fucking crazy person. She created a reverse Wolverine somehow.

Yeah, right. So it just like and to give you an idea how fucking crazy when you hit her biographical bullet points, you have to leave out stuff like she claimed gays in the military were responsible for a massive bird die off. Just that just has to get added it out to make room for the really crazy shit. And she looks like she always just won an argument about her expired dinner coupons. Yes. And then ate cum without knowing it because that's how that works.

Yeah, those two things always go together. Don't argue about your expired dinner coupons. You're going to eat them. You like books, Cindy? Here's a small one. The new target of crazy this month is North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un, or as I call him, Lil' Kim, saying, quote, God is hardening his heart like Pharaoh's heart. He's not going to allow Kim Jong-un to stay in that position.

He is not going to allow compromise to come. he is not going to allow compromise to come something is going to dramatically happen because his time for being a dictator is over unless he turns his heart to the lord end quote right like uh like all of hawaii eventually did after 38 minutes god was just doing a nuclear pump fake he got all the congress this is a good move okay wait i'm trying to put this together okay so god is hardening his heart so that he can't be a dictator anymore unless god stops hardening his heart do you think christian recipes are like this too like step one dice the eggs step two boil them you know like yeah so the problem here is obviously not nuclear escalation it's all the godlessness she continues quote

maybe somehow kim jong-un if you're watching this yeah yes yeah of course he was of course if you are turn your heart to the lord jesus there are people praying for you and if you will completely change god is going to help you on a path that will not be destructive so you can choose kim jong-un you choose who to serve if you serve god and if you change your ways god will protect you he will protect north korea in a unique way and make peace with south korea but if you continue on your path it will lead to your destruction and the sad thing about that is your destruction will lead the path to hell and it will be eternal eternal what will happen to you end quote jesus fucking okay so

in other words the crazy babblings of a christian fundamentalist on youtube can only be distinguished from official foreign policy by the fact that they're too articulate jesus i'm gonna be at this bridge for a couple of seconds. And side note, Kim Jong-un, if you're listening, and I know you are, please do not blow up South Korea during the Hearthstone World Championships this weekend. I really want to see if Purple's Control Warlock

can overcome the Cube, so just wait out. Never mind. And quick, before I accidentally learn what any of that shit means, we're going to close the headlines for the night. Heath, Eli, thanks as always. And when we come back, Seth Andrews of the Thinking Atheist podcast will be here to think, I guess, probably.

Really beautiful voice. Okay, and this text, it means that she wants you to ask her out. But, no, but she said she wants to see the movie with you. But I don't want to see that movie. Hey, guys, what you doing? Trying to explain girl code to Heath. I swear, this is a full-time job. Huh, full-time job. Well, why not use ZipRecruiter.com?

What's ZipRecruiter.com? Well, it's the smarter way to hire, Eli. ZipRecruiter posts your job to over 100 of the web's leading job boards with just one click. Then, ZipRecruiter actively looks for the most qualified candidates and invites them to apply. No wonder 80% of employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate through the site in just one day. Wow, 80% of employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate through the site in just one day? Okay, now she said, you look delicious winky face. And what does that mean? She's a cannibal. I hate him. Okay, I'll try ZipRecruiter. How do I do it? Well, Eli, you can find out today why ZipRecruiter has been used by businesses of all sizes and industries

to find the most qualified job candidates with immediate results. Right now, our listeners can post jobs on ZipRecruiter for free. That's right, free. Just go to ZipRecruiter.com slash scathing. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash scathing. One more time, to try it for free, go to ZipRecruiter.com slash scathing. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash scathing. One more time to try it for free. Go to ZipRecruiter.com slash scathing. Well, I hope that one day thing is true because I cannot take much more of this. Okay, you got to admit, this is confusing.

This one here. She texted, please put your penis in my vagina. I see what you mean. ZipRecruiter.com. The smarter way to hire. Right? No. Confusing.

I love that so much. Hey, podcast listener. Do you like questions? Uh, what? Do you like answers? Well, did you know that we just released a patron-only Q&A that's over an hour long? That's right. Want to know how Heath likes his scotch?

Whether Eli is a furry? How about why Noah didn't like The Last Jedi? How about why Noah didn't like The Last Jedi? Then head over to patreon.com slash scathing and give as little as a dollar to find out the answer to all the questions you never thought to ask. But wait, there's more. Give us even more money and we'll send you signed copies of our books. Noah will even sing you a song!

Not like that! But most of all, you could ask questions next month that your burning heart has always wanted to know. That was your heart! Patreon.com slash scathing, because if you don't pay for this show, I'll drive for Uber! because if you don't pay for this show, I'll drive for Uber.

One of the things I find most fascinating about Christian fundamentalism in modern America is the Truman Show-esque parallel reality that they fashion for their kids. They consciously construct an alternative universe that sits right on top of our own, complete with its own schools, its own museums, its own movies, its own TV shows, its own amusement parks, and, of course, its own music. Well, my guest tonight knows a little bit about all of that

and quite a bit about the latter. Seth Andrews spent more than a decade working in the Christian music industry before giving up the Holy Ghost and becoming one of the pioneers of atheist podcasting. He's the host of The Thinking Atheist. He's the author of Deconverted, A Journey from Religion to Reason, as well as Sacred Cows, A Lighthearted Look at Belief and Tradition Around the World. And as near as I can tell, he's one of the nicest guys in atheism. Seth, welcome to The Scathing Atheist, sir.

It's great to be here. After all this time, I feel like I'm on hallowed ground. I've journeyed to Mecca. I'm on The Scathing Atheist. It's pretty amazing. Thanks, dude. Thanks for the invite. I got to tell you, man, it's a voice jealousy thing. I don't mind saying it.

There's a certain- We have some thing, there was some podcast award and we were recording shit about each other and this was years ago, wasn't it? Yeah, yeah. I'm trying to remember the context of it. But they're like, hey, record this about the scathing atheist and just be brutal about it. But I came to the realization I'd never had a chance to actually talk to you on your own show. So it's good to be here.

Thanks for the invite. Yeah, yeah. No, we've had you on GAM to do a few Christian movies with us. But yes, it's surprising to me as it is to you um very excited like i said you are absolutely like one of the pioneers and one of the people whose shows i really looked up to when i started this uh one of the people who i think really set the bar for atheist podcasting so i appreciate it i appreciate you setting it so high well it's a lot of i don't know about yeah i mean it's just one guy blathering on you know but i was listening to the intro and you're absolutely right about how Christianity is.

It's like buying the generic version of the cereal, the breakfast cereal that you loved, right? I mean, Christian culture has, I did a whole speech on it a few years ago. It's on YouTube. You can just look it up. It's called The Copycats. And it talks about how Christian pop culture would just wait around for whatever was hot in pop radio, rock radio, the games, the things people were talking about, cartoons, superheroes, whatever. And within just a matter of months, in some cases, they would have a Christian version of it. And they would say, well, why would you want to infect your children with the devil's stuff when we have something even better here that's all about Jesus? But of course,

99.999 times out of 100, their creations were just horribly cheap knockoffs and embarrassing to watch and listen to. But Christianity was so glad to have its own thing. And it was so uninterested in what the rest of the world thought about it that it was high-fiving. Hey, man, you know, we've got a great song on Christian pop radio. It's totally original. Meanwhile, regular pop radio was just space palming left and right. Yeah. Well, okay. So now were you raised in that parallel Jesus universe, that fundamentalist bubble? Oh yeah. Mom and dad, hardcore fundamentalists. Mom wrote a Greek New Testament study guide. That's how hardcore she was. Wow. They met at Oral Roberts University. That's where they were both going to college.

I was conceived, I shit you not Noah, I was conceived in the holy lands my parents took their honeymoon in jerusalem they walked the shores of galilee this was their idea of like where to go once you get married and so i mean you're raised in this i'm in third grade in public school and i come home and tell mom something i've i'd heard in homeroom about neanderthal man. And of course, mom's like, you know, wait, that's not in the Bible. Neanderthal man's not in the Bible. And she just immediately scooted us out of the public school system into private Christian schools. And we stayed there through graduation. And we had just Christian everything.

And, you know, the church is really good at creating this. It's like the village, you know, I mean, you don't have to leave the boundary. There's always a Christian something to do with Christian people. It's just constant reinforcement. Well, you know, and I wonder how much harder it is to insulate kids to that degree in the post-internet world. But yeah, when you and I were growing up, if all your friends were listening to these songs, then obviously you would think that those were the songs yeah and we were

sanctimonious about it you know i mean i'd i was i was i'm sure i repelled so many people in high school because i was mr jesus i was a youth for christ spokesman and and uh i was mr chapel leader and student council president blah blah blah so i'm this I'm the guy that like, you know, I mean, it was okay if the kid brought me home, but the parents always loved me. Oh, what a wonderful boy. He's so Jesus-like. He plays, he plays piano and loves Christian music. And, you know, I'm just like, I was like, I was carved out of wax. I wasn't even a human being for Pete's sake. And I,

people in my car, we'd go to lunch because we had open campus and I'm playing, you know, all of my Patrick cassettes just to make sure that everybody in the car is listening to Christian music, man. It's awesome. Rocking for Jesus. I'm sure they would just as soon have gotten out at whatever intersection we were at and walked back to the campus because I was so irritated, you know? All right. So now this brings up an obvious question. Was there like a moment for you when you realized that Christian music sucked? Well, I think under the surface, you know, one thing about, I wrote about this in my

autobiography, but you know, there was, there was an affection that we had for the basement, in the bargain basement on a shoestring, spit and tinfoil Christian artists and albums. We knew it wasn't great quality. We knew they didn't have the resources. We knew that they didn't have the big record labels and the budgets, but we were so anxious to see it succeed that we forgave a multitude of sins. And I think, you know, we admitted in a lot of ways that, you know, it's, you know, it's sure it's rough around the edges, but at least it's Christian, right? And at least it's ours. It's something we kind of had in our back pocket. This was David versus Goliath. You know, yeah, they weren't on the major award shows and they weren't making squillions of dollars,

but because they weren't, we actually sort of took them more personally. And it took me a while, you know, after I began to, you know, eke away from the business that I came to the realization that, you know, there are a few religious songs that are good um but most of what you hear is either straight up copycatted or it's so slickly marketed

that i don't think it can sincerely be called a sincerely religious song it's it's too polished you can tell this is a conditioned response thing where they're going for a certain look a certain sound everybody's airbrushed you don't find any unattractive people on christian album covers you know right it's the same marketing bullshit they do for everybody else they just do it with jesus attached to it because they want to serve that niche you know right okay so let's let's shift gears here from from user to pusher um little seth he grows up rocking out to backstreet altar boys or whatever it was dreams of one day working in christian music he achieves his dreams it's a it's a touching story but but but let's talk about

the reality of it like what kind of stuff did you do i mean obviously you you were a dj but you were like a public face of this station as well right right? Well, you know, when I started, I started at this unusual time. You know, my first year in Christian Radio at KXOJ, the studio is a shack out in a suburb of Tulsa. It's called Sepulpa, Oklahoma. It's right in probably 12 minutes from downtown. And, you know, we're in a field with cows walking around the building. And so, I mean, it was not uncommon for me and i'm

you think radio is a glamorous gig but the truth is we were working long 12-hour shifts sometimes 6 p.m to 6 a.m alone in there um you know just spinning discs and between discs it was you know uh 100.9 fm kxoj with steven curtis. Coming up next, it's prayer time. You know, hang on. And, you know, you do that six times an hour, 12 hours a night sometimes. You know, the glamour wears off. You see a cow looking in through the window. The glamour really wears off. Right. We had, during the wintertime, because we were in this big field, we had this mousetrap.

We had the AM transmitter room for an AM station we owned in the room next door. And so in the winter, the very cold winters, the mice and the rats would come into the studio and get into the transmitter to get warm because it was bloody cold out. So, I mean, we'd be on the air, sometimes in the middle of prayer time. Dear Lord, we ask that you be with Bob who sent us his prayer request. His mother's got the flu tonight, and you hear this snap. As some poor rodent was dying a horrible death. And God, we sacrifice to you. Yeah, right, right.

But I mean, we played the music. We emceed the concerts. We did the live broadcast. We did a lot of promo type stuff, community service. But the thing is, is that Christian music really exploded in the mid-90s as major record labels finally realized, hey, wait a minute, we got a market here. There was a backlash to what was then at the time a controversy over lyrics and albums, the sexuality of certain and in groups and songs and sex and violence and music you remember in the 80s they had the big warning label the big chipper gore hearings and all that about uh you know is this music causing crime is it causing satanism and so

these record labels realized hey wait a minute you know we can market a family safe deal so they went in and bought up all these little hole-in-theique record labels. And in the mid 90s, contemporary Christian music was the fastest growing, by far the fastest growing genre of music in the United States. And it remains a multi million dollar industry today. It's very profitable. All right. So let me ask you about these Christian concerts, because I've been to concerts, and of course, I'm not religious. So I have this image of a Christian concert really being a church service with lighting and possibly pyrotechnics, if they've got the money for that. Is that accurate? Some of it, yeah, some of it.

Well, it really depends on the artist. Amy Grant was the first to water that down. But before that, you could almost see the arc of the concert. They opened big. Sometimes there's lights and fog and pyrotechnics. This increased as the budgets increased through to the late 90s. But all of a sudden, as Amy Grant crossed over to pop success, and if everybody else wanted to do what she had done well the way you do that is you don't have the altar called at the end of the of the concert which is what a great many artists are doing uh back to the original question i'll come back to the pop crossover

normally they start big they have kind of an ebb and flow upbeat they have a moment in the middle where they're doing kind of more ballads. They're connecting with the audience. Another, you know, sort of swell. And then they would always finish with the band playing very emotive music as the lead singer or whoever would give a sermon. And quite often at Christian concerts,

they would have an altar call and people, it's like a Billy Graham crusade. People would come forward. And of course the emotions were hugely high because these concerts, they would have an altar call and people like a Billy Graham crusade, people would come forward. And of course, the emotions were hugely high because these concerts, you know how music really does affect you. It touches the heart. It's such a sensory experience. People are already emotional. Well, especially when you're experiencing it in a big group like that. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, you got goosebumps. Many times there's tears in your eyes. And many of the people on stage were very convincing. They were just great performers, if you will.

And they would say, you know, tonight, this time, who would like to get their life right? Who's never met Jesus? And they would actually have an altar call. Wayne in the mid to late 90s because we wanted to see Christian music transcend this cocoon that it had been imprisoned in before. We wanted everybody, not just Christians, to know it existed. And so radio stations and the artists began to pull back on the churchiness of what they did. And this was true in the radio. We were told, you don't say God or Jesus on the air ever. We don't have a Christian positioning statement. We don't say Jesus music or a station for Christ.

It was always family safe or positive hits. We don't want people, we want people who are scanning the radio dial to hear a song. The songs do the quote unquote ministering and we'll just be like every other jock, every other radio DJ, every other broadcaster in the market. And our hope was is that for a few days before they got hooked, they really wouldn't jive because they were listening in the background. They wouldn't really realize this was religious music.

And then we'd get them hooked. And then we'd get him hooked. And so you begin to see the religiosity dial way back in the late 90s as they tried to emulate what was successful on pop radio and increase the repeal. My God, that is so much more insidious than I thought. Like, so basically, I mean, you know, obviously you couched it in the terms that you would have used back then. But you were trying to trick people into listening to religious shit because. Yeah, right like you turn on the music oh family safe okay cool i got my kids in the back and then the kids are obviously going to be paying a little more attention to the music than you are and yeah wow no i mean it was most most of these radio stations most uh what we call ccm contemporary christian music and then the edgier ones were called chr they reached their main

target audience was females 18 to 34 some of them stretched into the 40s 18 to 49 but essentially we were targeting the moms because our marketing research had said that if you get mom if you have mom listening mom controls the radio in the car if you get mom you're going to get dad and the kids by default you're going to get the whole freaking family. Well, in such a crazy and insane world with so many detrimental things that might happen to your children, mothers were, according to our market research, were desperate to find resources that were positive, had good positive messages in them, were not going to harm or in any way lead their children astray so it was very much a marketing move to say we are safe for your family in fact

that was kxoj's tagline for many years many stations say positive hits you know where there's a bunch of negative and there's a bunch of nastiness out there we're positive we'll build you up we'll make you feel better never once do they say God or Jesus. It's always about positivity and safety. And we sought out the sort of the matriarchs of the family in the hopes that we'd get them. And then by default, we'd get everybody else. Yeah, no, and I guess that makes so much sense because yeah, right, like in the 90s,

the music went so far the other way that you could see that backlash happening just like where gourmet food got more popular popular the more microwavable stuff was available yeah we looking at people who were revolting against sort of a tarantino-esque culture and they were like has the world gone crazy is there no safe haven for our children and of course the christian radio stations and tv stations and bookstores they were busy marketing and shilling for all this And of course, the Christian radio stations and TV stations and bookstores, they were busy marketing and shilling for all this stuff. Of course, many of them making healthy returns. I mean, those who think that people are in Christian music and in Christian retail and in

Christian industry are doing it just for the love of doing it. Many people do, and they do it because they believe. But don't tell me there's not money changing hands and that it's not hugely profitable because i know that it is right right yeah well it depends i mean for for ken ham not so much but for some of these folks yeah there's money to be made well it's some hole in the wall radio station not so much but if you're like a lifeway christian store you know those guys i mean hobby how much money is hobby lobby made by closing on sunday so other people can go to church and sell them this stuff? And Hobby Lobby also owns another Christian retailer called Mardell. And Mardell, you know, they sell everything from Jesus oil paintings to cross necklaces and earrings.

They have T-shirt lines. I mean, there's money changing hands left and right. There's a huge market out there for this stuff. Yeah, no, I lived in South Georgia for a while. We had a Lifeway store there, and I was doing a photo shoot for a website we were building. And so I went in there to try to find some like, you know, Jesus toys and stuff for kids to use for this photo shoot. And the whole time I was so nervous, I felt like I had to have an excuse, like I had to pretend that I was buying something for a Christian nephew or something like that. It was, yeah,

it was a frightening experience, mostly because when I got back to the kids thing, they actually had what the, oh, it wasn't David and Goliath, but it was an armored play set with a holy sword in it. Yeah. Yeah. It struck me an awful lot, like the Muslim store having a play IED or suicide vest.

Well, you know, what was amazing in those Christian retail stores is how many books are on sale to explain the book that supposedly should require no explanation. You're right. Yes. I mean, you know, oh, thanks, Dr. James Dobson. Thanks for the explanation. You know, I just, it's so transparent now that I'm on the other side of it.

And I look back and I shake my head and beat myself up for not seeing it sooner. But yeah, I mean, it'll make you cynical in a hurry. Well, so let's talk a little bit about that, if you don't mind. So if I recall correctly, and by all means, correct me if I'm wrong, and I'll just end up cutting this question. But you started to lose your faith or be tempted by the devil or whatever while you were still working in Christian radio. Is that correct? Yeah, there was an artist that we had on the radio. His name is Rich Mullins.

We actually had him in the morning show, the spring of 97. And he did a concert that we had hosted. And it was a big deal. And he was a beloved guy. He was horribly killed in a car wreck in the fall of that same year. And I was charged to me and my co-host to go and tell everybody on the radio what had happened. And I had to go and update the website. And so here I am, you know, posting a photograph of his face and talking about how God called him home and he's in a better place

where there's no pain. There are no car accidents. And one day we'll all be reunited. And as I was sort of hammering all this stuff onto the website, and we were speaking about this stuff on the air, there was a part of me that just came to this realization that we had constructed a coping mechanism to deal with this tragedy. That it just didn't ring true that God would bring this guy to the forefront of ministry, beloved by millions, and then have his body hit by a semi-truck in the middle of a highway at the prime of his career just made no sense. And 9-11 was really big for me. I was on Christian radio at Live 1015,

a clear channel when that happened. They asked me to pray, like all these other broadcasters from all these other stations who were really not religious. Whenever tragedy happened, they all showed up in my studio and they asked me to pray for them because they were scared. Many of them were crying. We'd never seen anything like this before. The towers are falling. And so here I am constructing this sort of lofty prayer.

But under the surface, I'm like, this is crazy. None of what we're doing here makes any sense. And those were the two major things. There's about a thousand small ones. But for a long time, I just kind of went dormant. I just checked out. Somebody asked me if I was a Christian. I said, well, of course I am. But I didn't participate religiously.

I felt stupid praying about anything because it just seemed like an exercise in futility. I was a Christian in name only. And I checked out for a lot of years for that way. So now during that time, you're still working for the radio station? Yeah, I actually jetted out of radio in 2004 to enter a video production job because radio is kind of a shrinking business. It's mostly computers these days. So I got a job as a video producer in 2004. The kicker was, though, that the company that I got a job for, 80% of their clientele was churches doing fundraising videos. And so probably over the next, gosh, 11 years, I did.

In fact, I worked for this company even until 2015. that we traveled all around the country shooting videos for churches who were building onto their facilities and having people give sometimes in the millions of dollars to promote God's good work. And I'll tell you, while I was doing this church work, my skepticism grew and grew and grew and grew and grew. I just looked around and I just saw theater and I saw us

constructing a God in our own image or what we wanted God to be. I saw comfort mechanisms. I saw a lot of great community building I saw, but everything I saw was human, human made. And finally at the, you know, I launched a website, the thinking atheist in 2009, but I was still working for this company. Right. And I was terrified they were going to find out and let me go. And I was going to, I was going to pay the house payment and my life's falling apart. all this sort of came together, told me that they respected my right to not believe. And they funneled in almost every instance with, unless there could be no exception, all the religious work went to somebody else and I handled corporations and universities. But it was tough. It was tough because I'd been kind of phoning in my faith for so long.

And here I was front and center with all these churches. And I thought if they only knew how much bullshit I thought this was, they'd probably kick me out of the church. All right, well, I'll tell you what, this interview went a little bit longer than I expected already. I don't want to keep you much longer, but I did have-

No, no, no, I enjoy talking to you. No, it's always fun. Awesome, awesome. So I got one final question for you. And I'm sure everyone's kind of wondering this one as well. Do you still find yourself like occasionally cracking out the old Christian music CDs? You know, I occasionally will post one on social media. Hey, look, here's the old Petra, not of this world. I had this on vinyl back in 1980, whatever. Or we'll poke fun at Christian metal.

I don't know if you've seen any of those old Christian metal videos with bands like Deliverance and Bloodgood. Oh, no. And Baron Cross, Rock for the King, these guys in white spandex with makeup on and white gloves and a fist in the air. And they're like, we will rock for the king. It's a parody.

Okay, it's a parody. it's a parody you could not you could create a parody of baron cross and you would not be able to tell the difference from the original so i i don't post any of that stuff or listen to it seriously and the truth is is that i don't listen to it for pleasure either because quite frankly i i can't get past the fact that this is a tool to keep people locked in a lie. And everybody comes to me and they're like, oh, this has got a great melody and I enjoy the song and this brings back memories in a certain time of my life. And all those things are valid and good for you. But for me, when I hear Stephen Curtis Chapman, Michael Douglas Smith, For me, when I hear Stephen Curtis Chapman, Michael Douglas Smith, Petra, DeGarmo and Key, any of those things, I do remember a certain time in my life.

It was the soundtrack of my life during a certain year or even decade. But I'm overwhelmingly hit with this. This is not true. This is a lie that is being marketed and packaged and sold and bought. And I don't think I could enjoy it if I wanted to. And so while I do enjoy talking about it and kind of how it framed my life at those times, I don't listen to Christian music in any way for pleasure at all. And I see so much of the marketing, the airbrushing behind what it is, how cynical the people in the business were, even when I was in the business. And they were cynical. We'd see the artist on the road.

We'd talk to the record company execs and the promotion people, the machine of Christian music marketing. These people were business people in so many instances, or they were just burned out. And you could tell that their lives weren't what you saw on the album cover or on stage. They were just, in many cases, people just like everybody else. And so, you know, I don't get any joy out of it. But of course, I always enjoy coming on shows like this and taking that journey back because it's fun to talk about what it is, what it was, what it did and didn't do, and why I think there's so many better options out there. Well, I got to say, my favorite interviews are always the ones where I

learned something. I think I learned quite a bit today. So thanks again for being so generous with your time. Of course, if anybody wants to hear more from Seth, you can check out the Thinking Atheist podcast at thethinkingatheist.com or by checking the show notes for this episode. Seth, thanks again. I'd love to have you back sometime. Been a pleasure. Thank you, sir. Before we drive off into the sunset this week, I wanted to give you a quick heads up about a fundraiser the Australian skeptics are doing. Britt Hermes is a former naturopath

who turned from the dark side and became a skeptic a while back. She's been paying penance for her time in naturopathy by exposing some of the virulent bullshit that undergirds that profession and for her efforts she's getting sued uh anyway the skeptical community is coming together to try to help offset her legal fees on this one so if you're in a position where you can help out check the show notes for a link to more information much appreciated anyway that's all the blast movie we've got for you tonight but we'll be back in 10 022 minutes with more if you can't wait that long be on the lookout for a brand new episode of our sister show, The Skeptocrat,

debuting at 7 a.m. Eastern time on Monday. Our sister show's hot friend, Godawful Movies, debuting 24 hours after that. And our half-sister show, Citation Needed, debuting at noon Eastern on Wednesday. Obviously, I'd have a damn awkward time at the Baker Bucket Buffet if I neglected to thank Heath Enright for his magnanimous commitment to self-deprecating humor. I need to thank Eli Bosnick for a similar commitment to Heath deprecating humor. I need to thank the lovely and talented Luc a similar commitment to Heath deprecating humor. I need to thank the lovely and talented Lucinda Lusions

for somehow managing to stay sane after reading through her sources every week. I want to offer one more big thanks to Seth Andrews of the Thinking Atheist podcast for hanging out with me tonight. Again, you'll find his show linked on the show notes consistently. One of the best produced

and most interesting atheist podcasts that you'll find anywhere. I also want to thank Wayne and Paul from the Mimi Call podcast for providing this week's synchronized Farnsworth quote. If you'd like to explore meme-based culture alongside them, you'll find a link for their show on the show notes as well. But most of all, of course, I need to thank this week's best bipeds, Garth, Gary, C. Picard, Kaylee, Adam, Felicia, Cassandra,

Natalie, Red Tone, Six, Jen, John, Kevin, Greg, David, Jeffrey, Kosarama, Ding Dong, Doo-Wop, Shabob, Stacey, Katie, Ashley, and Brian. Garth, Gary, C. Picard, Kaylee, and Adam, who are such stable geniuses they don't even have to tweet about it. Felicia, Cassandra, Natalie, Red Tone 6, and Jen, whose brains were doing unlimited data plans way before it was cool. John, Kevin, Greg, David, and Jeffrey, whose cocks are so massive they're only allowed to go swimming in the ocean at low tide. And Kosarama, Ding Dong, Doo Wop, Shabob, Stacey, Katie, Ashley, and And Brian Whose asses are so sexy Trump would accept immigrants From their actual shitholes Together these 20 men Women

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or playing random episodes for your students. Legal services for this podcast are provided by the law offices of P. Andrew Torres and our audio engineer is Morgan Clark, who also wrote all the music that was used in this episode, which was used with permission. If you have questions, comments, or death threats,

you'll find all the contact info on the contact page at skatingavs.com. All right, so we've got a few sound effects for you here, Morgan, but don't worry, Eli hasn't put in five different types of original music. You almost killed Morgan, Eli, with that last one. Oh, my God, he's going like, hey, man, do you mind if I just find some pod safe music for this shit? I mean, I'll do it. I'll fucking do it.

I'll do it. But Jesus Christ, you're going to get it at like one in the morning. And I'm like, yeah, no, that's two years of short jokes. And the third kind of music. He was like, hey, motherfucker, I don't need you. The preceding podcast was a production of Puzzle and a Thunderstorm LLC. Copyright 2018. All rights reserved.