The Scathing Atheist - 271: SPLC Ya Later Edition

Episode Date: April 26, 2018

In this week’s episode, Ken ham’s ark park see less footraffic than your mom, we find a great new reason to ejaculate on a wall (your mom), and Lee Strobel will prove that the New Testament is the New Testament. To make a per episode donation at Patreon.com, click here: http://www.patreon.com/ScathingAtheist To buy our book, click there: http://www.amazon.com/Diatribes-Godless-Misanthrope-Scathing-Presents-ebook/dp/B00J53FZFI/ref=sr11?ie=UTF8&qid=1396141562&sr=8-1 To check out our sister show, The Skepticrat, click here: https://audioboom.com/channel/the-skepticrat To check out our sister show’s hot friend, God Awful Movies, click here: https://audioboom.com/channel/god-awful-movies To check out out half-sister show, Citation Needed, click here: http://citationpod.com/ Guest Links: To check out the Encyclopedia Dumb-erica, click here: http://www.encyclopediadumberica.com/index.php/Encyclopedia_Dumberica Headlines: SPLC gets rid of its anti-Muslim Extremist list: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2018/04/19/the-splc-has-removed-its-controversial-page-listing-anti-muslim-extremists/ Stanford study does NOT show that religious kids do best in school: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2018/04/19/a-stanford-study-does-not-show-that-the-most-religious-kids-do-best-in-school/ Appeals court rules that pastor was allowed to use unpaid labor at his restaurant: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2018/04/20/appeals-court-pastor-didnt-break-law-when-using-unpaid-labor-at-restaurant/ Ark Encounter numbers are heinous: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2018/04/21/ark-encounters-latest-attendance-numbers-are-ken-hams-nightmare/ Christian magic school students are doing stupid stuff: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2018/04/20/students-at-christian-hogwarts-suck-graves-and-try-to-walk-through-walls/ This Week in Misogyny: Christian blogger’s fashion advice to not be a harlot: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2018/04/21/christian-blogger-if-you-dont-dress-in-a-godly-way-you-must-be-a-harlot/ Hasidic sect sees rapist rabbi as god: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2018/04/20/hasidic-sect-sees-rapist-rabbi-as-god-believers-allow-him-to-do-anything/ Woman turns down Pakistani man’s marriage proposal; he sets her on fire: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2018/04/24/a-woman-turned-down-a-pakistani-mans-marriage-proposal-he-set-her-on-fire/

Warning, the following podcast contains explicit language, but it also has some non-cuss words in between. This week's episode of The Scathing Atheist is brought to you by Dollar Shave Club. And by the affordable way to destroy a new Hindu universe every week, Dollar Shiva Club. And now, The Scathing Atheist. Hello there, this is Natalie from EncyclopediaDamerica.com. And I'm here to tell you that despite all of the overwhelming false evidence to the contrary, we did in fact evolve from filthy monkey men. It's Thursday. It's April 26th.

And the case for Christ is a total witch hunt. I'm no illusions. I'm Eli Bosnick. I'm Heath Enright. I'm from New York, New York. Secret Lair, Pennsylvania. This is The Scathing Atheist. On this week's episode,

Ken Ham's Ark Park sees less foot traffic than your mom. We find a great new reason to ejaculate on a wall. Your mom. Your mom. And Lee Strobel will prove

that the New Testament is the New Testament. But first, the diatribe. Apparently, I'm a terrible magic audience. I'm not rude. I mean, I don't loudly announce where the coin is or anything. I clap when I'm supposed to clap. I laugh when I'm supposed to laugh. And I pick a card, any card, if I'm called upon to do so.

I've made my living as an entertainer most of my life and I'm damn conscientious about being a good audience member, but I'm never amazed. You know, a lot of that's because I know how the tricks are done most of the time. I've had a passing interest in magic since I was a kid. And as a juggler, I'm constantly lumped in with magicians who showed me this trick or this other trick. And even when I don't know exactly how the trick is done, I know enough to know that if I did, it wouldn't be all that impressive. So sure, I clap and I laugh and I ooh and I ah, but when you're used to people jumping up and down,

screaming and shouting and wondering if you don't have real sorcery that you're disguising as sleight of hand to avoid the fiery stakes, even the most enthusiastic clap doesn't really cut it. Magicians are out to fool you, and if they don't do that, they feel like they've failed. But I don't just suck for the magician.

If I'm not careful, I also suck for the audience. For example, last week we all flew out to Chicago for Tom's wedding, and during the reception, Eli did his magic show. And as you can imagine,

watching Eli do a magic show is well worth it, even if he never gets around to doing a magic trick. But he did several. And among these is a card trick with a lemon. Pick a card, any card, abracadabra, he cuts open the lemon and the card that you picked is inside it. Now it's Eli, so of course it's way more dressed up and grandiose than I'm making it sound, but essentially that's the trick. So at the end of it, he cuts open the lemon,

he pulls out the card, everybody goes apeshit and wonders if he can see through their clothes just like a magician wants. Later on that night, I'm hanging out at the bar. I'm chatting with the bride's dad's girlfriend, and it comes out in conversation that I work with Eli. So she starts marveling about that lemon trick. Now, in my opinion, that's the fourth most impressive trick he did, but that's the one that really stuck with her. And like most magic audiences, she's misremembering the hell out of how it happened and what he didn't didn't do. And she's built it up to be way more spectacular than it really was. And along the way, she says, I'm going to be up all night wondering how he did that. So I glance around, make sure

Eli's not an earshot. And I tell her, I just so happen to know how that trick is done. And if she'd like, I could fill her in on the secret. So she stops and thinks about it for a few seconds, which is already weird to me. That's so antithetical to the way my brain works. Gee, I could either know something or not know something. Let me puzzle this one out. But she gives it a long, good think and eventually decides that she would like me to tell her how the trick is done. So I do. Not going to spoil the trick on the air here or Eli would disown me and I'd wake up with a pigeon head in my bed tomorrow. But suffice to say that it's like most magic tricks. Once you know how it's done, it's not particularly impressive. And once I explained the nuances of it, I could see right away that she was regretting her decision to know this.

I'd sucked all the fun out of it. Eli was definitely not a wizard anymore. The trick wasn't impressive anymore. I'd taken out all the magic and I had ruined her wonderment. And she's hardly unique there. In retrospect, I think most of the people at that wedding would rather not know how the trick was done. The majority of people want to be fooled. And when you explain the trick, they don't see that as adding knowledge. They see it as subtracting awe.

And I'd like to think the parallel with religion is obvious enough that I don't have to point it out at this point. You know, when Eli plucked the queen of diamonds out of that lemon, nobody actually thought they were witnessing a miracle, but were happy to be fooled they didn't know how it was done and they didn't want to know and if i'd stood up and explained in that moment how it was done i'd be an insufferable asshole by pretty much everybody's assessment now most of the religious

people you and i deal with every day are the same way they don't actually think their religion is true they don't actually think they're going to heaven or that God's going to intervene and cure their grandma's cancer. They don't actually believe pregnancy hurts because a snake tricked a lady into eating an apple. They don't actually believe that God loves them or has a plan for them, but they sure enjoy being fooled. And if I stand up or say, log into Facebook and explain how that trick is done, I'm an asshole by pretty much everybody's assessment. Of course, the difference here is that in the first example, there are no stakes. Eli doesn't follow the lemon trick up by pitching

his course on how to psychically manifest cards in lemons. He doesn't use the trick to convince people they should fear his magic powers he's not demanding 10 of their incomes lest he magically pressed the digitate cardboard into all their citrus fruits and if he did i'd be perfectly justified in standing up at the end and showing everybody how the trick is done and in this the magicians agree with me right because you can't be a magician for long without realizing just how earnestly people want to be fooled and just how easy it would be to abuse that desire that's why so many of the best known skeptics are magicians and so many of the best known magicians are skeptics. And when it comes to religion, the stakes couldn't be higher. Still,

people like to be fooled. So we're made to feel like the assholes who ruin the party anytime we endeavor to pull back the curtain on religion's machinations. Or when we point out that airborne doesn't work. Or when we break the news that chakras aren't ainations, or when we point out that airborne doesn't work, or when we break the news that chakras aren't a thing, or when we point out that that money they spent on homeopathy was worse than wasted. Skepticism is, by and large, a thankless job. However illogical it is, when you disabuse someone of a lie, they often actually, you just stole something they never had. And this leads a lot of us to question the point after all if these people are happy in their ignorance what right do we have to force the truth on them but i think even the most cursory

glance at the world around you will serve as a potent reminder why we can't afford to live in a nation filled with deliberate fools they're talking about you jesus interrupt this broadcast and bring you a special news bulletin. Joining me for headlines tonight are part of this nutritious breakfast, Heath Edright and Eli Bosnick. Fellas, are you ready to snap, crackle, and or pop? Hey, that works. I snapped a long time ago.

Heath crackles with wit, and you pop whatever you stand up. This is perfect. I don't pop. Okay, yeah, no, that's good enough. Okay, quick question. With the complete breakfast there was always the orange juice did you guys ever drink a tall glass of orange juice with your cereal and

milk i never also never had sliced fruit alongside it yeah also or toast have you ever seen my body do i look like i drank juice at any point in my childhood no No, I had my cocoa pebbles. I took my marshmallows from my Lucky Charms, put them in my cocoa pebbles. And then I poured heavy whipping cream over all of it. Pour is not the right word. Hungrily spooned. Okay. Spooned onto you.

All right. In our lead story tonight, the Southern Poverty Law Center decided to remove the list of anti-Muslim extremists from their website last week. This might be an indication they finally realized that hating Islam isn't much of an extreme position and that it's an indication that ex-muslim activist majid nawaz raised enough money to sue them for putting him on the same list as nazis you're here well hey at least majid reacted to his name being put on the list with the stoicism and gentility we had hoped for always glad to come to bat for the good guys yeah Yeah. How much did we hope for? Stoicism and gentility. That's what we're all about here on the scathing atheist air. Yeah.

So just in case anyone missed it, this all started in December of 2016 when the SPLC published a report about so-called extremists who were spreading lies and bigotry about Muslims. And the list included Nawaz and also included Ayaan Hirsi Ali, another ex-Muslim, whose experience with Islam includes surviving female genital mutilation as a child,

and receiving death threats stabbed into the corpse of her friend, who was murdered for helping her make a film about her apostasy. And when she described that all later in an interview, she was very rude about it. Very rude in her word choice

considering that it doesn't require any lies or bigotry to make true statements about how horrible islam is for the world the splc report was immediately met with some strong opposition especially from the logic having community for example other atheists like us who deserve to be on the list just as much as noah's and ali right not even a mention people not even a mention we did the whole quran it's fine it finds something yes so uh despite all the vocal criticism from smart people the splc kept the list posted on their website for almost two and a half years until just now but despite

their best efforts they fucked it all up again because the whole point of the first round of controversy was that nawaz and ali don't belong on a list with nazis like richard spencer and now they're once again being treated just like spencer as the whole list comes down. So apparently we need to lead them through this like a small child. Dear SPLC, we don't want everybody on the list and we don't want nobody on it. So who does that leave? Some people. There you go. Exactly.

Do your fucking jobs. And just, you know, top of my head, maybe the Nazis get a dedicated list by themselves. Just a thought thought they get their own thing really heath do you not remember what happened last time we made a list of the nazis the holocaust that's right that's how it happened people blamed the nazis and then they killed people in that order no that is true and it was that order. It's a backlash. And in what's yours is mind news tonight, Facebook Christians decided to selectively endorse scientific data last week when they mistakenly thought some of it favored them for a change. This is the best. Oh, my God.

Okay, so you may have seen links to articles recently about a Stanford study that showed that religious kids tend to do better in high school than non-religious kids. Guess what that study did not show. I am here to confirm your suspicion that yes, that's bullshit. And no, that is not what the study found. It's the worst sciencing ever. The study found nothing.

Yep. And then some data fell off the truck and it found that atheism actually doesn't even exist. No, it didn't. Fascinating. Just a Nigerian guy with a carpet full of Christian test scores hanging out in Times Square. Test score, test score, test score, test score, test score, test score. Now, before I get to the study itself, I should point out that we're talking about high school GPA.

This study did not look at college students and their numbers would look a lot different if they did. school gpa this study did not look at college students and their numbers would look a lot different if they did i mean no offense to high school teachers but an inordinate amount of your high school gpa comes from your ability to sit down shut up and do what you're told and that might suggest that religious kids would perform better by this metric but they still don't yeah you hear that atheist high school students if your grades suck it's because you rock too hard. That's new indeed. So fuck school, kids. Scram. Don't go to school.

Quit school. Blam. No. Scathing atheists. Here's the study. Have sex with adults. Kill your parents. You said adults.

Nope. I'm right. Nope. Not the last thing. After you have sex with right you have no whatever you're about to do don't worry this won't make it so so here's the study a doctoral candidate at stanford's graduate school of education named ilana m horowitz got a group of got a group of high school kids and then divided them. Throwing it out there.

You remember what happened last time we labeled these people? We're not supposed to list them. All right. So she got a group of high school kids and divided them into five categories based on their levels of religiosity, ranging from highly religious abiders to non-religious atheists. And when she compared all but one of those groups, she found that the highly religious kids had better self-reported GPAs than the not so religious kids. And if you're wondering why she only compared four of the five groups, well, that's because the fifth group was the atheist cohort and their GPAs were the same as the highly religious kids. So she left them out of the analysis.

Yeah. So she left them out of the analysis. Yeah. She clearly heard about P hacking just like the basics the day before. And she said to herself, you know what? That all sounds pretty fucking complicated. I'm just going to X hack and Y hack this shit. That's so much easier if I just take this part of the data out. Who has time for all those jelly beans?

Atheists are dumb. There. Nailed it. Now, I want to be clear. The reporting on the study was horrible, but the study itself is to blame for the confusion. She literally left the atheist cohort off her charts because it disproved her hypothesis. And she directly admits it at the end of the paper. Some professor was like, hey, you need to put all the end of the paper some professor was like hey you need to put

all the data on the graph she was like can't do that that fucks up our planet i'll explain at the end with one sense no atheist data fucks up my science yeah okay that's it disclaimer and in jesus slaves news tonight a three-judge panel for the sixth circuit court of appeals officially took my side in an argument this week that Noah and I have been having about whether or not it's okay to have an army of unpaid slaves as long as they know they'll never get any money.

So, Noah, do you want to apologize? First of all, no, they didn't. No, they didn't. And secondly, most of the shit you're doing to them would be illegal even if they got paid. That was the main point. Okay, pin in that. Eli's sexy water park aside, regular listeners, Most of the shit you're doing to them would be illegal, even if they got paid. That was the main point. Okay. Pin in that.

Eli's sexy water park aside. Regular listeners might remember. Wait, aside? Go back? How does this tell you about Eli's sexy water park? What? Why would that be aside ever? Listen close.

We'll pin in that too. You come here. Never mind. Anyways, regular listeners might remember the case of Pastor Ernest Angley, who, starting in 1971, ran the Cathedral Buffet, a for-profit restaurant which he staffed with church members who never got paid. Now, to be clear, this was not a soup kitchen or a charity. This dude was just getting up on the pulpit on sundays

and telling people that jesus wanted them to work at his cracker barrel for free it feels like a christian judge confused himself for a second and then just like panicked at the end he's like okay well you can't just trick people into being your slaves all churching is illegal from now wait yeah right only if you don't make money off fuck hold on hold on hold on wait start over start over new religion right so unsurprisingly uh this is illegal and a few years ago angley was forced to pay several hundred thousand dollars in back wages and shut down his slavery restaurant however as i teased at the beginning that decision was overturned this week by a court of appeals because and this is real the workers never expected to get paid jesus yeah because eternal paradise doesn't really have any coercive value to people.

That's the actual argument from the court. Seriously, they said that. So obviously with a landmark overturn of the 14th Amendment and the offing, we had some new business ideas to run past our lawyer. And we thought you'd like to know how that meeting went. Gentlemen. Hey, Andrew. You want to open the door all the way?

I do. I do, but does Eli have any gifts with him? He does not. I do not. No gifts. Okay. So how can I... It's a loan, not a gift. Damn it. i call it the hat dispenser

the hat yeah it's for all your hats you just stand under here then you dodge the blade and you're wearing a hat why does it have a blade exactly because it's a hat dispenser Because it's a hat dispenser. What? Anyway, gentlemen, how can I help? I call a comfy chair. No. Gentlemen, gentlemen, I set up two extra chairs. I called it.

I said it first. I gave it to you. You're pushing me. Yeah, for no reason. Heath broke your chair. Eli broke your chair again. It was Eli. It's okay.

What can I do for you well okay so it's actually about these contracts that we had for the we want to start a slavery yes slavery you want to start a slavery yeah sorry Andrew there was a headline this week about that guy Ernest Angley and they haven't

shut up about it since yeah just like Ernest Angley with and they haven't shut up about it since. Yeah, yeah. Just like Ernest Angley with the slavery. Hey, can I have some jelly beans? Those are marbles. Can I have some marbles? To eat? So what I was thinking was like a cat hotel,

but we don't pay anybody. Yeah, cat hotel, no pay. Okay, okay. Look, you have to understand that what Angley did... We don't pay anybody. Yeah. Cat hotel. No pay. Okay. Okay. Look, you have to understand that what Ang Lee did. Noah would watch the cats for free. He would. He loves cats.

Okay. Well, that's true. Yep. No, gentlemen, that's not the problem, right? So the problem is. Okay. What about a distillery? A distillery. A distillery.

It requires permits, it requires professionals. But where we don't pay anybody, slave distillery. Right, right, right, right. Look, that was a very specific case and you guys don't know anything about distilling. That's true, we don't.

No, we do not at all. Okay, thanks, Andrew. We're sorry to bother you. Sorry, Andrew. Andrew. We're sorry to bother you. Sorry, Andrew. Yeah, sorry, sorry. And if you would, just take a look at those contracts and let us know. Yeah, yeah, we'll do. What about a podcast company where we don't pay?

Look, that's been done. And with that disappointing realization, we'll pause for a quick break and hand things over to my lovely wife, Lucinda. A man wrote the Bible? A whore is what she wants. If it's a legitimate race. If it's a slut, right? Cooking can be fun.

Hey, I'm proud of a man. This Week in Misogyny. You know, despite my best efforts, a lot of women are still religious. I was sure at some point self-interest would be enough to sway them, but that seems not to be the case. Well, I got into this business to help women, so if I can't talk them out of religion, the least I can do is talk them through it. So this week, I'd like to offer up a few important things that religious women should avoid. First up, looking slutty. This advice comes to us from Christian blogger Lori Alexander, who decided to wax poetic on what it means to dress like a harlot this week.

And after a lot of sloppy first draft meandering, she eventually settles on four things. Your clothes shouldn't be short. They shouldn't be tight. They shouldn't be expensive. And when in doubt, wear what your husband tells you to. Now, I don't know how well Lori knows my husband, but I'm pretty sure she's telling me to dress like a sexy superhero. But the next thing to avoid is way less ambiguous because it's rape.

Now, I know that avoiding rape is something that you do, even if I didn't mention it, but in religious context, it's especially important, seeing as how cool religious authorities tend to be about it. And not just if you're a kid either we were reminded of that yet again by an update on rabbi elizur berlin you might remember him from being jailed for multiple sex crimes in israel after a multi-year international manhunt well apparently he's now served his time three months in jail and another nine on parole and

he's back at work being a rabbi again, despite being a convicted rapist. And I should emphasize that the reverence for Berlin goes way beyond normal religious leader appreciation. His followers describe godlike powers to him, including the ability to heal the sick, breathe underwater, and render his followers bulletproof. In fact, they're so convinced of his divinity that many of his leaders insist the rape convictions are slanderous nonsense, despite the fact that he confessed to the crimes. So yeah, avoid slutty clothes, rape, and last but not least, autonomy. Now, I'm going to skim over this story because the details are too fucked up to spend a lot of time on, but several listeners sent me a

story about a woman in Pakistan who turned down a Muslim suitor who proposed to her and got set on fire for it. Now, I'd love to pretend that's a crazy extreme, but all of these stories center around the same thing. When you objectify women, you dehumanize them. And when you dehumanize humans, this is the kind of shit that happens. So last on our list of things for religious women to avoid is, of course, religion. I mean, atheism has been doing some housecleaning lately, and we're still a long way from perfect, but holy shit, do we have the lead on the competition. And with that reminder, I'll hand things back over to Noah, Heath, and Eli. Thank you, Lucinda. And in sunk costs news

tonight, the dance floor over Ken Ham's financial grave got a little more crowded last week when we got a peek at the first quarter attendance numbers at the Ark Encounter theme park. So bad. Right? Of course, the park has made every effort to keep their attendance numbers away from prying eyes. But thanks to a per ticket safety fee recently implemented by the city, those numbers have become a matter of public record. by the city, those numbers have become a matter of public record. And thanks to self-appointed watchdog Dan Phelps, president of the Kentucky Paleontological Society, we know them and they are fucking pathetic. Okay, so what if we say the park is on either side of I-95 and just count everyone that

drives through? One, two, three. We don't know how many was in that van so so just as a reminder when ken ham was pitching this thing to williamstown and when they were deciding how much tax breaks to give them and stuff they were projecting attendance between 1.4 and 2 million people a year of course the firm that produced those numbers were dripping with conflicts of interest. Objective estimates were closer to 425,000. And according to the numbers we're seeing now, even those conservative estimates probably overshot it by a bit. Yeah, they're using Arthur Anderson to get there.

Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. But you turn that thing into a Confederate Heritage Museum, maybe replica of Amistad. Those numbers turn around real fast in Kentucky. Unironic tiki torches everywhere right right yeah it is not great when your multi-million dollar theme parks yearly foot traffic is getting crushed by citation needed download numbers you know what i'm saying monthly monthly our monthly

and their yearly yeah so okay to give you some context i worked in this industry for a while a medium-sized theme park gets excited if they can bring in 20,000 people in a day. Ken Ham didn't bring in that many people in January. Now, granted, January is the shittiest month to be a theme park, but on an average, just over 400 people a day came in. He was about 100 customers shy of an average Walmart. Based on their first quarter numbers and the numbers from last year, if they want to hit that 1.4 million number,

they're going to need to make a breakthrough in human cloning technology. Well, to be fair, the human ovum is only about a tenth of a millimeter in diameter, so that arc might have a lot more people that they could fit a lot of stuff. All the unborn babies that came

into their apartment too. Dinosaurs, menstruating women part menstruating women in trays and i know a scientist over at stanford who can do that math for them she's jewish and finally tonight we got a perfect glimpse into the pedagogical methods of a christian academy for college-age kids called the Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry last week when two new trends among students made the news. Apparently, they're taking part in something called wall walking and also something called grave sucking. And against all odds, both practices are even dumber than they sound. Okay, I'm going to guess Liu Kang karate move and blowing the dead.

Still dumber. I'm a little older than Eli, so I was thinking being a rubbery octopus covered in weak adhesive and tumbling slowly down the wall twice before you're too covered in cat hair and dust to ever work again and blowing the dead.

Obviously, blowing the dead. Okay, let's, you know, monging. Let's not be bad-mouthing. Okay, let's, you know, monging. Let's not be bad mouthing. Okay, yeah. So the Bethel School is also known as Christian Honkwarts. So we already had a pretty good idea about the quadratic degree of their stupidity. But they really outdid themselves this time. Apparently, eating Tide Pods and snorting condoms was a little too logical for these Christian kids who attend a magical university.

So they got creative. Let's start with the grave sucking, also known as grave soaking. So you know how graves, they're constantly leaking out with zombie blessings from the corpses up through the ground? Yes, I do. But certain employers won't let us discuss the truth on this show. So thank you, Heath. Two votes. Yeah, well, these kids realized what a waste that was, so they started laying down on top of graves

and soaking up all the magic from dead Christians in the ground. Dirt laying. I got to imagine that every time you do this, there's like one guy there that thought they were gonna blow the dead you know he's just going oh right yes lay here is what i also thought we would do i brought mints to make the laying down more pleasant who's doing the leg drop never mind sorry also but if this was, imagine all the white privilege you could soak up just walking out afterwards. Catch a taxi.

Catch a taxi. Sit at a Starbucks for as long as you want. It'd be pretty awesome. All right. Well, big takeaway here. These kids need to know about the magical power of living atheist dicks. Let's get the word out about that. All right.

living atheist dicks let's get the word out about that all right so moving on to the wall walking which actually grew out of a national trend among christian kids of putting coins on a wall and and when the coins didn't immediately fall off this was proof of god for them what yep yeah well it turns out it was actually just proof of come, but religion confuses those two things a lot. Yeah, that's when the best communions happen. Anyway, these kids decided that the magical wall powers probably extended

to walking right through the wall and that's what the 18 to 21 year olds trying to walk through walls happened. So if you'd like to help pay for some video equipment that they could use at Christian Hogwarts to film themselves walking through walls, we'll be starting up a new GoFundMe page later this week. We really want to see that.

We're also going to sue the SPLC if that motivates you more. Just so you know, it's going to come on the walls and we're going to sue the SPLC. And we're going to get a recount on the election. Yep, the recount. One. I'm counting, look at me go, two, three. And also, if you weren't doing this

already, do not forget to come on a wall whenever you see Christian college students walking around. It really brightens their day. It's a nice thing you can do for them. And while I get Andrew back on the line to see if I have to edit that bit, we're going to close the headlines for the night. Heath, Eli, thanks as always. Come on the wall. Be

come on the wall. You can't be bit out. And when we come back, please trouble desperately try to convince us that the Bible is four times more true than the Iliad. Seriously. Welcome to Generic Fancy Men's Store in the Mall. My beard isn't nearly nice enough to do this. How can I help you?

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I know. I get an amazing high-quality shave every morning from my Dollar Shave Club executive razor. It's the best razor I've ever used. But if you'd like, I can sell you this $700 electric shaver with nine heads or black toothpaste. Why nine heads? Because it has more than eight heads. Helpful. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Well, Dollar Shave Club seems to be the much better choice. How do I sign up for that? Well, you can clean up your bathroom and your morning routine. Just join Dollar Shave Club today. And for just $5 with free shipping, you'll get a six-plate executive razor plus trial size of shave butter, body cleanser, and one wipe Charlies.

Then keep the blades coming for just a few bucks more a month. Okay, what are those? Shaving cream brushes. Reality is weird. For your butt. for your butthole. As of this week, we're three chapters into the case for Christ, and I feel like the thing I'm really learning is just how easy it is to convince people

of something that they're not allowed to question. In the first two chapters of the book, the arguments never rose above okay, but still, though, and spoiler alert alert they're not getting much better this week no we get a smarter guy this time helping lee strobel make his terrible arguments that actually makes it worse it really does yeah it's like kristin chenoweth you went to karaoke and just shat herself it's really really sad and erotic bad example you know what i meant that would be great but

different bad thing is what i've got i'm always i always feel bad for introducing lucinda but never as bad as i feel right coming out of the shit play joke and of course joining us for yet another dredge through this insult to argumentation is my lovely wife lucinda lucinda welcome back so happy to be here is what somebody wrote in the notes that wasn't me it was just a blank i felt like i had to put something all right so this week we're going to tackle chapter three the documentary evidence sub-chapter title were jesus's biographies reliably preserved for us. Ooh, ooh. Right. And first we've got to establish that nobody knows documents like a reporter because news comes in documents.

Yeah. And he's just like, I'm a document rat. I was just reading the entire public domain. I found a transcript that said, I'm Richard nixon and watergate was me just flipping through some microfiche the shroud of turin fell right out so stupid and can we talk for a second about how common the i'm a real skeptic refrain is before someone's about to tell you how absolutely crazy they are like just yeah i want to hear i was a real skeptic followed by and so you know scientific and historical consensus pretty spot on expertise has meaning i work at a gas station which is

followed by some horn tooting about his pinto scoop and it couldn't be more pointless he just says speaking of documents i'm the dude that broke the story about pintos exploding when they got rear-ended which which which he wasn't by the way in his the dude that broke the story about Pintos exploding when they got rear-ended. Which he wasn't, by the way. In his notes, he admits that the story actually broke years earlier in Mother Jones magazine. And that Ford was acquitted. Is, but not at all what I just said, though, an allowable footnote? I know it's okay in Stanford scientific studies, but strunk and white, what do they say about it as a footnote? Right.

And then it's time to talk about authenticating documents. After all, any memo could say it was a top secret Ford memo like the one Lee Strobel found and thereby saved the universe. But how do you know it's really a top secret Ford memo? I mean, just, you know, as a random example. You just gave what we're making examples anyway yeah whenever lee strobel tells a story about himself everything happens in like impossible movie universe he's like yeah so i was making copies of secret ford documents and then just then a ford lawyer repelled down from the ceiling saw what i was doing and sprinted into the courtroom next

door where a judge was just waiting there ready to hear sprint in motions about ceiling documents what all right so eventually he gets around to tying this into the bible like okay so i know we're reading copies of copies of copies of copies of translations of translations of snippets of so how can we know they contain genuine historical fact? Right. And as we now know, Lee's going to follow his pattern. He's going to ask awesome, challenging questions that he will not answer. Yes.

Yeah, his books are copies of copies. Also, what about the censorship of the early church? Conflicting accounts. I'm going to spend this chapter talking about how much taller the stack of Bibles is than the stack of Harry Potter books. Those are questions. I don't know if you know this. Tall. So, yeah, we're going to tackle two questions in this chapter.

One, were the Gospels accurately preserved? Oh, oh. And two, were there even better, more accurate Gospels that the church suppressed? Which seemed like an odd one to me, but I guess when you've got nothing and you still have to fill a book with something. Right. You know where you can. He's trying so hard. He's like, what if there were secret extra true Gospels?

Just like Ford might have secret memos that gave context for justifying all the killing crusades nope don't bring up the crusades race war done done same thing what damn nope nobody said anything am i writing all this down yeah but luckily lee strobel knew just the guy one scholar who in his words was universally recognized as a leading authority on those matters. Bruce M. Metzger, PhD. Yeah, and for whatever it's worth, this dude is legit. He

actually is the New Testament scholar that Strobel sells him as, which is probably why he spends about four more pages talking about this dude's credentials than he did with that last asshole. Yeah. Oh my god, the bio went on so long i was expecting it to end with his proclivity for long moonlit walks on the beach colonoscopy video and then i did a prostate exam by hand it was just so much cum for an 84 year old here's

what it looked like credible i'm saying it looked credible in there. And was it just me or did anyone else get a little sad at how smart this dude is? Like, oh, man, I wish I wish this guy spent 50 years studying birds. Yes. We'd have so much bird knowledge. I also love the bit where he says, OK, but even in 84, he hadn't lost his sense of humor and then goes on to tell the least funny anecdote in the history of words. I'm like, no, he clearly never had one. All right.

Yeah. Right. And I just want to add the fact that this guy is legit is why Metzger will spend the least amount of time of any of Strobel's experts confirming Strobel's religious beliefs and the most amount of time giving real answers that accidentally disprove the point he's trying to make. Right, and Strobel's just not smart enough to realize it. Yeah.

So after a paragraph or two about how Lee Strobel hopes one day he can swing as much pipe as Bruce Metzger, we get down to business and start the interview. Question one, how can we trust copies of copies of copies? Ooh. And he builds the weirdest straw man here. Question one, how can we trust copies of copies of copies? Oh, yeah.

Oh, and he built the weirdest straw man here. He's like, I, like most atheists, of which I am one, an atheist, that is, am very discouraged by the fact that I can't read the original proofs of the Bible complete with editor's notes. Dude, do you have those, Mr. Metzger? notes dude do you have those well and and notice that metzger's first answer is well yeah that's a problem common to all ancient documents and strobel's like oh all ancient documents well that's exculpatory but yeah we don't generally accept ancient documents as reliably transmitting fact either he's like the little brother who tattles on everyone. Like, Lee Strobel asks him, hey, isn't it stupid to believe in Christianity because of that? And he's like, the Jews lied about stuff and made copies too. It's stupid to believe in all the religions. Did I help?

Why are you leaving? Well, also to be clear, when he talks about having copies from a couple of generations from the writing of the originals, he's talking about business card-sized scraps of papyrus, which lee doesn't feel the need to mention just no just lee strobel standing in an h&m waving a receipt around near a register just it's here right see see receipt i would like my money back for these pants someone shat in there and then it's time to put the Bible in the octagon against some other ancient books that, as Lee puts it, quote, are routinely accepted by scholars as being reliable. And spoiler alert, unless you believe in sea serpents, they are not.

No. Not at all. Okay. So Metzger starts with the works of Tacitus. And for what it's worth, those are not generally considered reliable. No. Right? I mean, we use them to figure some shit out, but they're based on secondary sources of unknown reliability.

They make obvious mistakes constantly. They're self-contradictory. It's like the Bible. Yeah, so there's this big moment where Metzger's like, yeah, we only have a few dozen copies of these ancient works, which we all accept as fanciful, non-historic lore. But with the Bible, we have thousands. And Strobel hopes you don't notice that this isn't evidence for anything. Right. He's also hoping you don't read the note at the end of that sentence, which leads to, I mean, not the Bible, but we've got like 4,000 pieces of papyrus that say jesus existed in comic sans so if you think about it

that's the bible what we're proving is that the people who are saving documents in early christian europe were largely christian and also proving that the second truest author ever after god was chairman mao zedong followed by jk r.K. Rowling. In truth fight. Just to emphasize how ridiculous this gets, he compares the Bible to the Iliad. And then refers to that as a work that, quote, modern scholars have absolutely no reluctance as treating as authentic. End quote.

The Iliad. Well, it's authentically the Iliad. The case for Cyclops by no illusions. And this is also where he starts talking about how truth is measured in height of books. Again, we started to mention it. And he drifts into a dick metaphor at one point here without realizing. He's like, yeah, it's almost embarrassing the length of the new testament stack

and the girth like like could you even handle like i don't even think what what were we talking about all right so then he goes on to talk about that aforementioned business card scrap which contains five verses from the Gospel of John. Yeah, and he makes a huge deal of the fact that this scrap suggests the book of John was written only 87 years after Jesus was dead, not 130. And then you can

almost hear a teleprompter pop up inside the book and they go into like a 90 minute infomercial skit about just how powerful all this evidence has been. Yeah. 87 years, you say? Yes.

87 years, Lee Strobel. Wow. Cut. Yup. Don't say cut. Action. Don't say nope. And then, okay.

The Nazis disagreed with this book. And we should emphasize that what we're trying to do here is establish that the Bible has been reliably copied. But Metzger will only say it's reliable compared to other ancient literature. Yes, right. And he ends this section by pointing out how transcribing leads to mistakes like you know how some biographies of obama have him born in hawaii but but others have him like sliding down a rainbow that's shooting out of the vagina of a virginal lioness in kenya it's like that it's typos right stories very major way one little letter do you guys ever wonder if ancient historians will look back on my headlines notes and wonder why you guys had someone on the show with only two fingers.

By the way, worth pointing out that the wealth of documents is meaningless, of course, unless they all agree and they don't. So now we're going to get around to that. We're going to confront that issue in a subheading called Examining the Errors. Right. Strubble's like, I mean, sure, there are tens of thousands of discrepancies in all these ancient copies. Like, it's an afterthought. Yeah. It doesn't really matter. I mean, sure, there are tens of thousands of discrepancies in all these ancient copies. Like, it's an afterthought.

Yeah. It doesn't really matter. And am I wrong here? Or is Metzger's excuse for the mistakes and discrepancies glasses? People didn't have glasses. He does bring that up. That's why there's 10,000 differences in this story. They didn't have Warby fucking Parker. Yeah.

Also, they didn't have remembering for three seconds. Yes. He literally claims that the time it takes from like looking from one page that you're writing off of to the blank page. That explains the tens of thousands of discrepancies. Like anything that happened before Ben Franklin invented bifocals and object permanence in 1784 doesn't count. Everything before then is true because we didn't have those things. So first we established that in Greek, you can just say the words in any old order you want. So mistakes don't really matter.

Yeah, there you go. You can't really do that. No, no. He goes like 200,000 or so variations. Sure. But most of them are insignificant. Most of them. Moving on.

Moving on. Most of them are insignificant. Right. It was then that he pulled a ride. Genial ring of keys out of his desk and began to jingle them wryly and genially with a wink in his eye. And again, false wasn't invented yet. How can something be false if words can be in literally any order you want? Boom.

Lawyered. Also, again, not true about you can like the subject and object or sometimes switch, but you can't just like throw them in any order. It's nonsense. He even goes, sure, the later scribes added a bunch of shit about the Trinity that didn't used to be there. But what does that matter in the end? Yes, right! He even points out, like, yeah, major things about the theology were changed, but his excuse here is, well, none of the doctrines

are wrong, are they? So, yeah, accuracy by general gist again. Yeah, he's like, I mean, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, the whole foundation of the religion, that's in seven copies, but, you know, there's fathers and sons and spirits, other places. Yes.

So no? Yeah. For some reason, that sentence was supposed to conclude no. It doesn't feel like a no. No, it does not. Nope. Well, he even describes the Bible as 99.5% pure. Like he's selling us heroin or something.

Yeah, exactly. And then it's time to address the question of whether or not the church council squelched equally legitimate documents because they made Jesus look stupid or something. So he asked Metzger about all the gospels that didn't make the cut. Yeah. Say, are there any books written by God that were just kind of you know meh oh yeah totally totally oh cool cool uh can i see them or no yeah so we break down the criteria the early church used to flesh out which ones were really inspired word of god stuff right okay so criteria one it had to be written by either an apostle or someone who followed an apostle,

which based on current scholarship, the scholarship that Metzger does means no gospel would qualify. Good segment, everybody. What do we want to read next? I say Pearl of Great Price. Atlas Shrugged, maybe?

No. All right. Well, either way, now I want to jesus and the disciples walking around just like bullying the shit out of mark and luke like no you're not in the group nobody likes you you follow from 30 paces back and then the second criteria is just an admission of guilt the second one is it had to agree with what the early church leaders considered the true faith. Yes. Yeah.

Boy, does Lee bounce past that one in a hurry? It was like, Oh, this disproves everything I'm trying to, you sure you wouldn't rather describe that in more archaic terminology, doc? Yeah.

Bigger words had to fit through a truth shaped hole. Yeah. You throw the book through the hole and you could tell if it goes or not. Everybody had one of them. The Bible firms, this is just like or doesn't. Everybody had one of them at the big Bible firms. There's like a T-square. Everybody keeps it. Criteria three, by the way, was whether that

particular gospel had continuous usage and acceptance by the church. So that one also admits that they just pick the ones that they like the best. Yep. There's this great moment where Metzger's like, you might call it survival of the fittest and strobel like starts screaming and he's like never mind never mind you don't have to call it

we can call it the strongest and then we get an entire section where they just list stupid tautologies like yogi bera might as well be squatting there going like the cannons, the cannon, because it's the cannon. Come to a fork in the road, take it. What? Well, the defense here, by the way, seems to be, well, sure, a lot of people disagreed, but most of them didn't. Because if there's one thing that perfect word of God and historical accuracy have in common, it's majority rule. word of god and historical accuracy have in common it's majority rule yeah even says quote the four gospels of the new testament were readily accepted with remarkable unanimity as being authentic in the story they told end quote by christians by people whose religion

depends on agreeing with that religion is religion qed yeah right yeah but then we get the gospel of thomas whose exclusion from the new testament apparently merits its own subheading the secret words of jesus yeah and the entire argument here apparently is yeah but that one makes jesus sound like a dick so you remember when jesus says render unto caesar that which is caesar's in the gospel of Thomas he actually keeps going he's like and also while we're fucking rendering stuff render to me that which is mine Alan still wearing that

smock I lent you said when you're done with it you give it back Alan look at me you're wearing it right now also in the gospel of Thomas everyone's complaining that Mary's a girl and Jesus says quote for every woman who makes herself male now also in the gospel of thomas everyone's complaining that mary's a girl and jesus says quote for every woman who makes herself male will enter into the kingdom of heaven end quote so trans listeners send that to your aunt just watch your loser fucking shit go on

he also has metzger arguing that christians can just tell when they're reading a real gospel yep quote the early church merely listened and sensed that these were authoritative accounts. Sensed! So he has to invoke the voices in his fucking head to make this argument work. Truth is 90% mental.

The other half is his way. 90% of truth is half mental. Argument from Spidey sense. And then when strobel says well wouldn't that cast doubt on books like hebrews and revelations which were only slowly accepted as canonical metzger's answer is like no that just shows how carefully they were interpreting the voices in my head there's a lot of but me being wrong in this instance just proves how right i am there's a lot of but me being wrong in this instance just proves how right i am there's a lot of that in this book uh the exception proves the rule

nope not how that works nope except for this once you see and then we then we wrap up wrong with a quick uh well that sure was convincing no reasonable person can continue to doubt the historical reliability and accuracy of the New Testament now unless they're an asshole, huh? Wait, wasn't this whole chapter most people don't know about the 200,000 discrepancies but never mind? Yep. Moving on. Moving on. That's the ibid of Christian apologetics right there.

Moving on. He also really drills down on the whole fuck all those excluded gospels bit. He dismisses them as totally absurd and impious

because, quote, they're often mythical qualities disqualify them from being historically credible, end quote. You know, unlike the ones

that make this cut apparently. And then he teases the next chapter a bit, but we can't wrap it up with Metzger without a quick, so now that you're one of the best Biblers in the world, how Christian are you? Wrap up. Because, you know, the more you research a subject, the more you want to be sure of the exact opinion you entered that research with, right? And Metzger actually quotes his mentor

at Princeton Seminary here, according to that guy named Benjamin Warfield, who taught systematic theology, whatever the fuck that means, not chaos theology. Anyway, according to that guy, the New Testament is marvelously correct. Marvelous. Just like all the good science. In conclusion, my hypothesis was resplendently correct you need adverbs for how correct you are yeah exactly well if you're really correct you know if you're really really well what's so amazing about this is the guy's actually saying and here's the cognitive bias that makes me impossible to take seriously and Lee Strobel

acts like it's a plus right yeah so with what you can only assume is a very frustrated Lee Strobel making a mental note to stop using ivy league scholars we wrap that chapter and move on to the discussion questions we get some good ones here okay so question one having read the interview with Dr. Metzger how would you rate the reliability of the process by which the New Testament was transmitted to us? What are some reasons you find this process trustworthy or not? Okay, I'm going to go with somewhere between waiter at a Mexican restaurant telling you the food is vegan and Cecil saying he's going to show up for your best friend hangout. All right, I'm going to say it's that it's trustworthiness is right above story that person insists is true before telling it to me and right below no stick

i'm gonna be honest why would you why wouldn't you weird well well seeing as how they admit in the chapter that there are a bunch of mistakes i'm gonna say way lower than you want in the perfect word of God. Right? Okay, but don't we find it trustworthy? Sorry, I forgot to put the words in order. We don't find it trustworthy. You were speaking Greek for a second. It's Greek.

It's confusing. All right, question. I had sex with a boy. All right, question two. Because it's Greek. Yeah, no, I get it. A boy has sex with you? Damn it. No. That's one of the ones Metzger was talking about. Subject to object. all right question two greek yeah no i get it boy has sex with you damn it

that's one of the ones metzger was subject objects all right so okay question two this is a great one this is amazing question two scan a copy of the new testament and examine some of the notes in the margins that talk about variant readings what are some examples you find how does the presence of these notifications affect your understanding of the passage? Okay. For mine, it's mostly dicks and vaginas that I drew. And they actually help my understanding a lot. Keep my attention anyway.

I feel like this question assumes I wouldn't be using the skeptics' annotated Bible. Gee, notes on variant interpretations, the perfect word of God. I feel like they shouldn't be drawing attention to that. Right? What? Am I the only one who came with a noteless version? Fucking Gideon.

You're right. Cheating you out all the good stuff. All right. Finally, question three, do the criteria for determining whether a document should be, this is question three through 11, but it's the last one. Do the criteria for determining whether a document should be included. This is question three through 11, but it's the last one.

Do the criteria for determining whether a document should be included in the New Testament seem reasonable? Why or why not? Are there other criteria you believe should be added? What disadvantages? This is amazing. What disadvantages do modern scholars have in second-guessing the early church's decision concerning whether a document should be included in the Bible? Who the fuck are you to say anything about this? guessing the early church's decision concerning whether a document should be included in the Bible. Who the fuck are you to say anything about this?

My final question. You doubting God? Say something. Fuck you. Bouncing a basketball off her face. You want to be the biblical scholar? You want to be the biblical scholar? I love how loaded that last bit is. What disadvantages does modern science and textual scholarship hinder us when we try to discover the real truth about Jesus?

Yes. What's the opposite of any? I got a criterion for you. How about do physically impossible things happen in the book? Or even, okay, but do at least the same physically impossible things happen in all of them okay um i'm gonna go answer the second question um it's super hard to do a late introduction of a chapter of an old book right like nobody wants that chapter where harry has bad diarrhea and just spends the day on the toilet. I could see why. Well, not true.

You don't want to see how Leviosa works that day? I'm just saying. Okay, but also to answer. Too fast, too fast. Accio, wait, chat. All right, but to answer that second question, modern scholars have vision and memory. That's right, yes.

We invented the true falsefalse thing since then. So that's observational bias that we all have. Historical history was different. Right, yes. Read a book by David Barton. Learn something. So we're three chapters in, so apparently we're 314th Christian at this point.

But don't worry, that's still mostly atheist. So we'll be able to come back in three weeks to tackle chapter four. Until then, the straw men will just have to beat themselves up, I guess. I'm going to go deaf and blind between now and then. You never play dick magic in the book. There has to be. Before we cue the theme song, I wanted to let you know that if you can't get enough me, you can find more of me on next week's episode of Cognitive Dissonance.

Hung out with Tom and Cecil in studio for a bit while I was in Chicago, and the parts of that that Cecil sees fit to put into the world will be available on their show on Monday. We'll share a link on Facebook and stuff when it's up. Anyway, that's all the blasphemy we've got for you tonight, but we'll be back in 10,022 minutes with more. If you can't wait that long, be on the lookout for a brand new episode of our sister show, The Skeptocrat, debuting at 7 a.m. Eastern time on Monday. An even newer episode of our sister show's Hot Friend God of Home Movies

debuting at 7 a.m. Eastern on Tuesday. And an even newer episode of our half-sister show, Citation Needed, debuting at noon Eastern on Wednesday. Obviously, I'd be in dereliction of duty if I neglected to thank Heath Enright for putting the jock back in jocular. I need to thank the lovely and talented Lucinda Lusions for putting the more back in humorous.

And I need to thank the lovely in his own way, Eli Bosnick, for putting the lick back in frolicsome. need to thank the lovely in his own way, Eli Bosnick for putting the lick back in frolic. Some, I also need to thank Natalie from the encyclopedia, dumb Erica for providing this week's Farnsworth quote. If you're endlessly amused by our national stupidity, you'll find a link to her site on the show notes for this episode. But most of all,

of course I need to thank this week's most luscious life forms, Pierre Casey, confessional missionary position, podcast, Cheryl KJ, Steven Aaron, skeptical spinster, Linda,

Jemima, look, we auto Carl, Brendan and glorious Baxter kingdom ofary Position Podcast, Cheryl, KJ, Stephen, Aaron, Skeptical, Spinster, Linda, Jemima, Loquayado, Carl, Brendan, Inglourious Baxter, Kingdom of Heathen, Dale, and Kevin. Pierre Casey Confessionel, Missionary Position Podcast, Cheryl, and KJ, who make Thor look like a pansy for needing that hammer. Stephen, Aaron, Skeptical, Spinster, Linda, Jemima, and Loquayado, who are so charming you'd like them when they're angry, even if they did turn into a giant green rage monster. And Carl, Brendan, Inglour Baxter, Kingdom of Heath and Dale, and Kevin, whose testicles give Infinity Stones all new meaning. Yes, I'm excited. Anyway, together these 18 amiable atheists aided our aims to alienate the aging agencies of Abrahamic ailments this week by giving us money.

Not everybody has the money it takes to give us money, but if you do, you can make a per-episode donation at patreon.com slash scathingatheist, whereby you'll earn early access to an extended ad-free version of every episode, or you can make a one-time donation by clicking on the donate button on the right side of the homepage at scathingatheist.com. And if you'd like to help a UN expendable income on or not speaking terms, you can also help a ton by leaving us a five-star review on iTunes, sharing the show with a friend, liking us on Facebook, and subscribing to us on our YouTube channel. Is that a hint? Maybe it is.

Legal services for this podcast are provided by the law offices of P. Andrew Torres and our audio engineer, Russ Morgan-Clark, who also wrote all the music that was used in this episode, which was used with permission. If you have questions, comments, or death threats, you'll find all the contact info on the contact page at SkinnyAdias.com. Wait, I got that one covered. The ova just falls right out if you drink the filthy water. Expella fetus. Talk to me about this filthy water.

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