The Sevan Podcast - #13 CrossFit Games - Dave Castro Update 10 Days Before

Episode Date: October 14, 2020

The 10 days before the Games: Hardest Games Ever ? Is Rich's window closed ? Do fewer people hate you now ? Josh Bridges boxing career Selling the Ranch for $200,000,000 Where is the line for testing the fittest versus gimmicks? War casualties as a SEAL Will there be a CF Games movie in 2020? Who is better Noah or Spealler? Are these CF Games Athletes, Pro Athletes? Leadership much more The Sevan Podcast is sponsored by http://www.barbelljobs.com Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/therealsevanpodcast/ Sevan's Stuff: https://www.instagram.com/sevanmatossian/?hl=en https://app.sugarwod.com/marketplace/3-playing-brothers Support the show Partners: https://cahormones.com/ - CODE "SEVAN" FOR FREE CONSULTATION https://www.paperstcoffee.com/ - THE COFFEE I DRINK! https://asrx.com/collections/the-real... - OUR TSHIRTS ... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Let's go seize the night. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Visit amex.ca slash yamex. Benefits vary by car and other conditions apply. So I was reflecting the other day. Okay. About, you know, the guy, that guy from that Panther movie died? Yeah.

And I guess as he was on his way out, he was sick. Okay. And people were trolling him on the internet. Okay. And they didn't know he was sick. And I guess people were making fun of him or something. Wow, you're doing a lot of adjustments. Okay.

I'm listening. And it just reminded me, when you were overseas, you're deployed. Yes. And you're running the CrossFit Games, and you're running the CrossFit Training Department. Oh, dude, I don't know if those weights can take that. That's some real plasticky kid's weights. No, no, they're good. Oh, my God.

They're good, they're good. I don't know if you understand. I'm listening. So, I think what people meant to say is thank you for your service, and we understand if you might be tense or not, like, have all your charm at 100% capacity because you're flying back and forth from deployments while running across the game. And running training department. In conjunction with Nicole, the training department. But, I mean, that's crazy.

Yeah, but it wasn't known to the world. You guys knew it. Right, right. But you're fighting for people's freedom and then they're on the internet fucking telling you what an asshole you are. Yeah, it's true. It's crazy. And that was a decade ago.

I know, but I'm just saying, like, I'm old enough now to, um, reflect. To be mature enough to thank you for your service.

Thanks. Have I ever told you that? No, I don't think you have. Oh, well, thank you. It's cool. I have three kids now and I'm like, I think I finally,

like, respect you. Finally. It's cool. I have three kids now. I think I finally respect you. Finally. It's about time. In 2008, this wasn't how the interview was supposed to start. That's fine. In 2008, Lauren Glassman asked me what I wanted to do for the games. I was working on the media team. Lauren Glassman asked me what I wanted to do for the games, I was working on the media team and I said oh I'd love to make a documentary

and she said okay and so we started off making a documentary and then about 10 minutes later, 20 minutes later she called back and she said we have to get Dave involved in this and I'm like yeah of course she goes no no we have to really get him involved he has to be like partnered and okay with the film

I'm like yeah yeah okay okay she said okay cool and then basically they called you and that was like the beginning of our relationship but the first year i worked at crossfit you pretty much hated me i don't i don't i wouldn't say i hated you i don't there's not a lot of people i hate i think i just have a natural guard up against people and uh it takes a lot of uh it takes a lot to earn my respect and to get inside for me to trust you. So I think it just was my shield. You told me that you, I never heard this term before I met you,

that you compartmentalized. Yes, I definitely compartmentalized a lot of things. Anyway. Well, you know, and that, And then you just flipped the switch and we were friends. I don't know, friends. I mean, now we're friends, but you've... Like, just all of a sudden one day, it's like, okay...

Well, you did something. I don't even remember what it was, but you did something for me to feel that I can trust you and let you in. Oh. And it's probably just your sincerity. Okay. How many games have you...

How many games? What games is this? This is the... We started in 2007. We're in 2020. So 13th year. You don't just know that off the top of your head? You're not like, oh my god, the 13th game. No. Because you knew when the 10th was coming up because you had that plan to bring it back to the ranch. The 10th, that plan to bring it back to the ranch really started brewing like around the 6th or 7th games. Because at that point you knew, I knew, we knew,

like, hey, it was here to stay. And so like, okay, I could start planning a 10-year return in my mind. That was a huge secret. Uh-huh. And pretty much no one knew. I don't know. A handful of people within the organization knew. Yeah. Like very, very small. Yeah. Like not even Greg knew. Not even Greg knew. And not even the media teams knew. Like the documentary team didn't know because I remember

it was the, we told them that night and they basically had to jump on the plane with the athletes. And that, that was so necessary at all levels just to keep the secrecy of it to uh you know to the level that we did because i didn't want to leak i didn't want it to get out because it would ruin the surprise it ruined the effect so um it was necessary to to have that degree of secrecy around it and and you know for someone again like i've said this recently in a podcast, look where I came from, look what I did. You even brought that up in the beginning. For me to work at that high level of secrecy and containment,

essentially with information, was and is easy for me to do. Do you like that? I really like that surprise element of the game putting all the athletes on the jet and bam they're in a roma's doing a workout yeah absolutely i love it it's the unknown and unknowable and it really truly it's one thing to prepare for something prepare for an event that you know is coming up and prepare for a routine and demands that are known but to prepare for something where you have no idea that where it's going to happen when it's going to happen how it's going to happen

it really challenges the athletes mentally more so more so mentally obviously than physically i mean physically once they get there and they're on site they're all going to perform they all have a high level of fitness but also adding that mental twist is such an important factor in all of this. How does that test fitness? Well, there's a fine line between being too gimmicky and not testing fitness with that. For example, you know, an amazing mental test is doing something at night. I talk

about challenging their fears and challenging, you know, how they adapt there. But now you've crossed some lines and now you're not really testing fitness. So the thing about when you ask how that tests fitness, once they, so the mental challenge happens when they find out, when they get on the airplane, when they get to Aromas once they get there it's it's a fair challenge across the board and everybody's had to deal with the same mental hurdles to overcome now on site the tests are pretty traditional in the sense of now we're going to test fitness and it's not a matter of actually holding someone's fitness level back because of the mental aspect. But there are some tests where the volume or the task, be it unknown or something the athlete hasn't done before, is a mental stressor and is something that breaks them down because of their fear, because of their fear of having done something unknown.

And you like to take it to that line. I do and I like to challenge that line and I like to respect that line and I don't like to cross a line where, okay, there's no fitness being tested anymore and it's just a mental challenge because you can easily cross that and it would devalue the competition. So even in the mental things we do, there's still fitness being tested and it's the priority. This line that we're talking about, have you ever written about it? Does anyone else know what defines this line besides you, besides what you just shared right now? I've never written about it and I've never even thought about it like I've maybe just even talked about it. But when you you talk about fear and fear management Tony Blower has

written about uh lived that his entire life in terms of that's what his profession is so he'd be a good resource and it'd be a good it'd be good to have the discussion with him. You just made Tony Blower's 2020 year by mentioning him. You just made Tony Blower's 2020 year by mentioning him. What's going on? Tell me about just popularity in terms of the Dave Castro popularity. It seemed like for a while there were haters and that era is kind of over. Is that era over?

No, that era is not over. And it's funny, someone the other day asked me about the popularity. And at this stage, it's like, it's a whatever. And the popularity I understand is within the community. I don't think I'm a celebrity, but I'm popular in CrossFit. And it's a whatever, because I've been doing this for, you know, almost a decade and a half. And the notoriety, the popularity came really early on. So I'm very practiced and have dealt with it for a very, even pre-Instagram. I mean, I was already a very popular figure in CrossFit. And I've had to deal with the nuances and the challenges of it. So you think it's just, let's say it was 80-20, 80% of people liked you, 20% hate you, just for a real simplistic model.

You think it's still like that? Well, that's not what I was talking about. Oh, okay. Sorry. So I was just talking about just dealing with that from the early days of especially managing the games and as CrossFit was growing as a fitness brand being one of the central figures in it. Now, if we want to quantify the hate, you know what's interesting? I definitely, once I went on Instagram and got active on Instagram, I think it swung more towards people seeing who I was and people liking me. Because in the beginning, there was more, I won't say more, but it was easier to see the hate than people who actually supported me.

And that was also okay because I was in a role where it was really easy to dislike me. And that was in, you know, heading up the games, giving these workouts out, doing these challenges to athletes in a role where it was oftentimes. Doing these challenges to these athletes like you were abusive like beating them yeah exactly where oftentimes I didn't um it was easy for me to be um a figure to rally against because all the athletes and everyone's so positive and then you have big bad Dave coming in and making them do these challenging things that they didn't even expect. And then also there's an aspect of when you're a figure at the top of a very popular movement or sport, it's really easy to target all the things they're not doing right.

And it's really easy to be critical of them. And you see that for a lot of people who... The weather here sucks. It's Dave's fault. Well, that's not exactly what I'm talking about. But here's the thing. It's easy. The product money's not right. It's Dave's fault. They didn't include 85 and older. It's Dave's fault. Yes, yes. It's easy to be the target when you're a public figure.

And so I've dealt with that and taken it on for a very long time now and um it's it's nothing to me in terms of the is it it's nothing to you i think it's nothing to me i mean because it's not new and it's something like so here here's the thing uh eric eric rosa it's brand new for him i think i don't think he was a celebrity in the community or in a community for um in i don't know maybe he was when he was at data logics maybe data logics maybe they had was a celebrity in the community or in a community for, I don't know, maybe he was when he was at Datalogix, maybe Datalogix, maybe they had this huge community that followed them and looked up to him.

I don't think they did, but as his role in CrossFit now, with this role, he's become an instant CrossFit celebrity. So for someone like him, it's brand new. For someone like me, what I'm saying is, I've been dealing with this since 2006 or seven, in the yeah for sure in the early yeah oh you did it well and and yeah fuck yeah and that's one of the reasons why um i took the compartmentalization of things and the isolation of things to the level that i did and that's also why you don't see my family on my accounts at all because in the early days, I was a target.

And like we're talking about, people would come at me and I was an easy target. And I made a decision really early on. I don't want my family to also go through that. And I don't want to put my family in the center of attention for the possibility of attacks like that. Because if that shit would have happened, I would have... You know, there was one fucking hater early on, and this was pre-Instagram. There was a website, I forgot what it was called,

and this guy would post shit, and he would take attacks at Greg, at me, at CrossFit. And then one day he did this post, and he had taken a picture of... It was a picture of my wife from her gym in San Diego and he posted it on his thing. And I honestly don't even know if he knew he must have, though. And if I don't think he knew, but he talked shit about her squat and that she was wearing a knee brace or something like that. And it really fired me up.

I was like, fuck, like here this guy is taking shots. He's always taking shots at us. And it was okay. But like now I felt like my wife was pulled into it. But I don't even think he knew. But he probably did because he was probably poking the beast. And so that was one of the moments too where I was like, all right, I got to keep them out of this.

And so again. Did you act on that? No. And there's a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot of again so did you act on that no no and there's a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot a lot of things i don't act on there's a lot i just take it i just take it all in and just fucking absorb it and just note it and just remember it and process it and oftentimes you don't need to act on things and just you just understand you you know what people reveal their true colors more often than not by coming at you, by being vocal.

And so you see, okay, got it. Understand what you really think. Understand who your character, what your character really is and what you're really about. Well said. I'm just going to stay silent. I'm going to stand back and I'm just going to watch.

And you know, it's all data points. It's all intelligence. It's all intel. I just collect. I just take it all in be fucking vocal be loud i love it what about what about this group of people just in the crossfit community over the last year that have taken come out of the the trenches and started throwing rocks and now that it's settled down you have to deal with them day to day whether it be

athletes media co-workers how do you process that like they like like there's been a lot of rock throwing um p i respect i respect a lot of not true people i respect and understand people were um upset and hurt but same sort of thing data points like there's a lot i'm not forgetting there's a lot i'll remember and it's all it's all good to know it's. You'll throw rocks at me while I'm down. Noted. It's all good to see how people act when the fucking house is burning. Right.

And, you know, like people act how people respond to chaos. And so what did I do? I laid low and I was quiet. And I just collected, took everything in and just processed. collected took everything in and just process and so you know and all that does ultimately is it just i believe it puts me in an advantageous position to deal with a lot of things and to to flow and just is that part of good leadership yeah and i'm not gonna lecture a rant on leadership because there's plenty of people who do that and make a living off of it not having really done much in leadership isn't that where seals go to die

they get away and that's just preaching about leadership yeah tell you what can i get up exactly yes yes totally yeah that's not that's definitely like i do not want to be known like i'm a good leader and i enjoy leading but i do not want to be known as the guy who preaches about leadership because the people who need to learn about leadership from people who preach about it are fucking already in a big hole like you need to learn about leadership through action and through learning and through working and through being in those roles not from about not from reading about it or listening to some 15 60 second instagram clip it's the same thing for success too all these

fucking sites on instagram and books about being successful how about people giving parenting tips you're killing that field you own it you own it um if we were to take uh the athlete chris spieler yes um he was on the podium yeah yeah to the podium on here um and you take him and you compare him to let's say someone who's i would say kind of maybe equivalent to him today his version i would say no let's say no also okay is there any comparison between the two? Like if you were to pull out the hopper? In my eyes, no. Does Noah just destroy Chris today?

Noah wins Chris 99.9% of the time. The level of athlete then compared to now is at a much higher place. And someone like Noah is way more well-rounded than someone like Chris was. At the time, Chris was able to succeed and have the success he did because the depth of field, the number of competitors in CrossFit, and especially at the top, was relatively low. And now, especially on the men's side, it's really tough and there's a lot of good competitors. It's really tough, and there's a lot of good competitors. And he's an outlier.

He was an outlier then with success. He'd be an outlier now even if he was in his prime without the same success. And that outlier trait being that he was so small. So Chris, not even in height but in physique, I mean in size, he was about 135. And so he's at a big disadvantage relative to all of these others he would put on like 10 pounds for the games and get up to like 145 150 right there remember he would be really struggling to put on weight what happened with chris is he was dominant in the field because of his well his engine but his uh his body weight and his uh proficiency at the body weight movements the problem was there was a time where

all the other athletes that were much bigger than him basically got to the same abilities with body weight movements that he was at. Now, I'm not saying they were all able to do 100 kipping pull-ups because that was one of the most impressive things I've seen in CrossFit. And he did that, remember, years ago. I think it was at a trainer summit. He did 100 unbroken pull-ups. That's amazing. But I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about in competition. And you saw that one year.

We programmed at regionals a 30 burpee bar. I'm sorry, 30 ring muscle-ups for time. And then I was also coupled with, I think there was an overhead squat to kind of balance the two out that were in isolation and and interestingly on paper when you saw that everyone was like Spielers and a dominate this this is a spieler thing I think he was like and might be wrong someone will correct me fourth or fifth in his regional on that workout and like not even first not even for or fifth in the world fourth or fifth in his in the regional in his regional on that workout um and someone like rich froning was

took i think second on that and second on the overhead squat proving like the complete balance that we were looking for across those events and and when you see something like that that's what i mean by okay the other athletes in the field have reached his level in the body weight movements. So you can't use that. So you have to be able to do it all. Yeah, you can't have any deficiencies. It's becoming harder and harder to be an outlier athlete, another outlier athlete, Asia Bartow, in terms of height. Someone like him was really tall. Tommy kind of was there.

Tommy Hackenbrook. Elijah was kind of there too. Those were really tall athletes. Jeff Leonard going back even further. That's going back even further. There was a phase where you can be an outlier like that and thrive. And now, even at this stage, look at Fikowski. He's taller than than most and you see him struggling these past couple years to make it to the to the higher levels what

is that what is the height of the perfect crossfitter 5'8 to 5'10 I'm going to assume based off of historical results and based off of where these guys are going. And what about the age? 20, 23 to 27. And that's going to become more amplified in the future as more and more athletes are in the sport and as these athletes with a deep CrossFit foundation starting as children. And it's going to be harder and harder and harder for athletes. And using that word outlier again, Sam Briggs is an outlier.

So she on the female side is in… Because of her age? Yeah. She's still able to make it to the top level but it's not the norm. She's an outlier and an amazing competitor. But you see it on the men's side. There was a period where at the games we'd have men who were over 30. Now the last couple of years, I don't think we've had one male who was over 30 at the games we'd have men who were over 30 now the last couple years i don't think we've had one man male who was over 30 at the games because it's becoming harder and harder to compete at

that high of a level as you age it's a recovery issue right it is largely a recovery issue large the games is largely largely a test of recovery to a certain degree. Recovery on a macro level and recovery on a micro level. It was also one of the things why I love Bill Grumbler, but it was silly for this notion of just chasing, like, I'm going to keep competing as an individual and not wanting to do the age group qualifiers. There's no shame. Same message to Bridges, Bailey, any of these guys

who don't want to do the 35 to 39 because it's like selling them. No, man, it's human physiology. You know, your age and you're going to lose a step and those divisions are there for guys like you. Take advantage of them and go compete and thrive. You're a professional CrossFitter. Be a professional CrossFitter. Oh, man, you're opening up so many boxes. I want to connect to that when you said a professional CrossFitter. I want to challenge that notion. So the height, 5'8 to 5'10, age 23 to 27. And the third piece is what previous discipline is the ideal discipline to come from? On the height and on the age, I will say this.

This is me speaking. You're going to ruin my follow-up question. This is me just speaking on, like, just, like, this conversation, not having put any thought in it. I would definitely 100% go back to the data and stats and look at that heavily before, like, in the way that I handle things, before, like, making it my statement. So, meaning, I'm just saying that here, but for me to really give you my position i would look at the the exact data right you haven't taken the average height you're just saying just from we have done that stuff but but um i don't have the exact stats right off the top of my head okay and what previous sports so you got you had katie modder who was basketball and she was amazing with anything under four minutes and you had had Miko Salo's soccer. Yep. Right? And then you got this Matt Fraser guy.

Rich was baseball. Was he baseball? Yeah, he played baseball. Okay. Pretty good. And you got this Matt Fraser guy who's lifting. His background is weightlifting. Olympic lifting.

Is there a, I always just off the top of my head would say it's a gymnast. Yeah, I think having a gymnast, especially you see that in a lot of the females. The female side, there's a lot of good women who have a gymnast. Yeah, I think having a gymnast, especially you see that in a lot of the females. The female side, there's a lot of good women who have a gymnastics background. So what's your question? Is there any... Is there a discipline?

We have the ideal height. You know, by ideal, we have the most common height. The ideal based on who we're seeing rise to the top. The ideal age based on who we're seeing rise to the top. Is there an ideal sport

based on who you're seeing rise to the top? At this stage, I'm going to say it's CrossFit. Wow. rise at this stage i'm gonna say it's crossfit wow so at this you're saying yeah yeah exactly at this stage i'm gonna say maybe not five or six years ago because there was not a lot of young maybe seven eight nine years ago there's not a lot of youth doing crossfit but if you want to be super competitive in crossfit if that's your goal, the sport to do that, I would say would be CrossFit. Because even in CrossFit, you're so, in competitive CrossFit especially, you're training so many, you're training Olympic weightlifting.

You're putting a priority on Olympic weightlifting. You're training gymnastics. You're putting a priority on that. You're training your engine. There are so many of those other things you're training to excel in CrossFit that it naturally, training the sport of CrossFit can be good at the sport of CrossFit. And we're going to see that more and more as there's a bigger field of youth participating. Would you ever do the ball throw again?

You know, yes. That was something I did not want to do at all. That was a Greg idea. Greg had, he wasn't heavily involved with programming, but there was a few moments through the history of programming where he did insert and say he wanted something. And the sledge being one of the big ones at the 2009 games. And then the ball, the year we threw the ball. The sledge was a fucking disaster. I actually, I liked it, except for the finger smash of Nicole Gordon. I like the sledge.

It was a disaster to execute, though. We had to dig out the ground. We put new dirt in. We tried to make it all consistent. So it was a big challenge. I mean, I loved it as a fan. I think it was cool. The ball... What about this? Sorry,. I think it was cool. The ball.

What about this? Sorry, sorry. Before we get back to the ball. Today, people complain about what lane they got for this head. Do you remember when people would say that they got a harder, softer, softer sand? That was like the original. That was amazing. And I'm telling you, we dug it all out with a tractor and had it refilled consistent and had it packed.

And so it was as consistent as we could make it. The ball throw. So that was a great idea. I was kind of against it. Would you do it again? Yes, I would. Tony Budding really liked it at the time. And so I kind of lost out on that one. And Greg wanted it.

So that's cool. We were going to have it. But Greg really wanted him to throw left and right. So the version Greg wanted to do was they throw one with the right, they reset, and they throw one with the left. And I pushed against that because as bad as a lot of them were with their strong arm, with their weak arm, it would have been a disaster. And if we would have done that there would be amazing youtube clips right now of the athletes throwing with their left

with their off hand and just looking like ridiculous athletes so i didn't want to put the athletes in that kind of compromised position or or out them like that right so even though you did accidentally anyway just well even though we did by, by just keeping it to the, to the, to go back to Chris Spieler, it looked like he'd never thrown a ball in his life and same with Jason Kalipa. Right. And so, um, I liked it as it played out, but I'm glad we made that pivot and did not have them throw with their weekend. You mentioned the term professional crossfitter and i've i've looked into like a lot of professional sports like who's at the top and i've interviewed a lot of professional athletes not a lot bunch and you know the average career of an n NFL football player is like 3.3 years. The PGA, once you're out of the top 150, once you're out of the top 150 golfers, you have to pay.

And so just to tell you how big golfing is, I heard some stat that more money is spent on golf every weekend on the planet than the entire value of the NFL just because of all the products and balls and golf courses. And I believe it. So that sport can only support 150. And you have the UFC, you know, they show the prize money. The guy will be on the main card and he only gets paid $12,000. Yeah. You know, and how many times can you fight a year? Yeah.

I mean, two, three, if you're lucky, you know, I mean, it's, it's brutal. Football, we said 3.3 years probably similar for the NBA I'm guessing similar for major league baseball I didn't look too deeply into that

maybe 5, 4, 5 okay but they have that crazy minor league where dudes just go and never come out of it it's a black hole right and then in tennis

same thing it's just a very I mean even the dudes who are at the top of tennis if you don't get that sponsorship deal it's just especially when you see people like LeBron James.

I saw something – I don't know if it's true, but he spends $1.5 million a year just on taking care of his body. You know what I mean? So how can a sport that's so small, like CrossFit... Oh, so let me go ahead. So then Dana White finally said in a press conference, Dana White said, this is not a profession. This is not an occupation. This is an opportunity.

This isn't a career. I think his exact words are, this isn't a career. This is an opportunity. And I've always viewed CrossFit as sort of that. And anyone who thinks they're going to go to the NFL and play for 10 years is just crazy. I mean, I feel like you answered it well, and you covered all the bases. That is it.

You just don't want to talk about it? No, no, no. I'm not done. I'm still going. I'm going. Okay. Interestingly, how could you even call an NFL career a career if it's only three years long for the average player? That's not a career if it's only three years long? Right. For the average player. That's not a career.

That's a… That's when you're getting paid. That's a detour in your life. That was your occupation for a few years. Right. On that note, do we have pro athletes? Yes. Do we have a definition of what that is exactly?

Not really. Do we have a lot of what that is exactly? Not really. Do we have a lot of pro athletes? No. Does qualifying to the games make you a pro? Well, it depends on how you define that. Nowadays, are most of the guys going to the games pro athletes? I don't think so. Does getting paid at one of these events or a few of these events make you a pro athlete? Some people would say yes it depends if you're dedicating your entire life to this sport and you have sponsors that are supporting your efforts and you're making a lot of money off prize money like a few people have like a few people are

you're a pro athlete t is pro matt's pro rich is pro christmas sa uh she's not a pro crossfit she's not a pro crossfit athlete she's made money off of crossfit she's uh but she's not a pro great ambassador she's an ambassador yeah yeah she's a celebrity yeah she's on tv she transcended well you could say brook ends too brook ends is brook ends a pro athlete at this no. Was there a point where she was trending in that direction? Maybe. I think there's a lot of pressure and a lot of people who want us to have more pro athletes and to be more like pro sports. But the reality is, especially in individual sports, as you pointed out, there's just not a lot of it and the individual sports like tennis or golf um there's not a lot of pro athletes even in those sports making a lot of money there's a lot of pro athletes in all sports

that spend a lot of money to be good at their sport and to try to break into the top but every sport you mentioned there nba nfl uh golf ufc they've been around for half a century to a century NBA, NFL, golf, UFC. They've been around for half a century to a century. UFC, 20, 30 years. Yep, almost 30. And we've been around for 10 or 12. And they have massive, massive, massive media deals. We don't have massive.

We don't have tens of millions. We don't have million-dollar media deals. There was a point where we could have had. We're definitely going to trend and have that as a goal. But we're not making millions and ten millions and hundreds of millions. The CCC's media deal was 1.5 billion five years ESPN. Just that one deal. Not including pay-per-view. We don't have those deals. We don't have that reach yet.

We will one day. And once we start getting to those levels and that type of financial stability coming into just us, then that's when the possibilities can branch out. And it can be more like some of those other things. Not the NFL, not the NFL, because we're not team sports, but more like maybe tennis, more like golf, more like some of the individual sports. But the steps, you don't create a sport

and then automatically make pro athletes. Like, you got to create the sport and you got to let it all happen, fall in line. And, you know, the pro athletes and the opportunities that have happened You've got to create the sport and you've got to let it all happen, fall in line. The pro athletes and the opportunities that have happened are not by our decision. Meaning we didn't tell Nike or Reebok to sponsor these guys and give them the ability to just train full time. It happened by the market. It happened naturally and it grew. It grew because those people wanted to support them.

As the sport grows... A little pushback there. We did some incredible media. Oh, absolutely. We built those guys up. Absolutely. And we provided, we made the platform. We created the platform, and from that platform,

they were able to leverage it, become superstars, leverage it, and get the interest from outsiders, get the interest from other sponsors, get the interest from Rogue. So we built this platform, this competition platform. Take it outside the United States, make it international. It's been international for fucking, and that's the other thing too, is like this notion that we want

to focus on making, we're international, we've been international. Our champion in 2009 was from Finland, you know, and every year since then the podiums had people for except for this year interestingly we don't have a lot of international representation because of the format this year but in the past it's been so so I hear this noise about um you're gonna love this I hear this noise about uh wanting to be treated like pro athletes if you did start

treating them like pro athletes, would you cut the women's pay by 90% like the other sports and let capitalism drive the market? And let me throw one more thing out there while I say this. Let me just interrupt you. By the way, let me say one more thing. Go ahead. I see these comparisons. I saw one on Instagram the other day of the NBA salary

compared to the WNBA salary and how offset it is. Obviously, NBA players make way more than NBA players. And again, that's just the commercial. That's just, you know, the broadcast deals and the sponsorship. That's not by design. That's where the sport is in its development. There's billions of dollars being poured into the NBA, and it's not there yet for the WNBA. It'll eventually, hopefully get there, but it's not there yet. And the NBA has, I don't know the history of the NBA, but the NBA has a much deeper, it's been around much longer than the WNBA, I assume. Someone might come out and say they were... Pretty much all women's sports.

Yeah. And vice versa, gymnastics on the other hand, women get way more than that. I don't think there's a lot of money in gymnastics. No, well, just in the college programs. There's a ton of women's college programs. That the programs get a lot of money, but the athletes don't. I'm just saying just in general general there's an imbalance in places.

It's driven by capitalism. In CrossFit it's not like that. I went on to the game site because I did thorough research for this interview. And by the way, that's something else I want to talk about. The last post of Games Media was on October 5th. And before that it was the 29th, before that, it was the 29th. And then before that, it was the 23rd. Is this the last year we're going to see a drought of media?

I mean, that is... Yes. Okay. Yeah. I mean, that's pretty... You must be disappointed with that. Yes, it's the last year we'll see that. The drought?

Yes. I mean, would you call it a drought? The resources in creating media and content are lacking. Obviously, over the last couple of years, there was a lot of changes made, and we had to fix some of that. When I click on the piece of content that's not made by CrossFit but posted on the CrossFit site, there's a six-minute video looking at Matt Fraser, will he win again?

And then there's a six-minute video looking at Tia Toomey, will she win again? Same production quality, same graphics, same everything. The one that Tia, when you click on the Tia one, it has like 2,300 views. When you click on the Matt Fraser one, it has like 23,000 views. Is that, I actually was expecting it to be the other way around. I thought over the years that the women's was more popular, but what's your opinion on that? Is there not a balance there? Is that indicative of the popularity of the men versus the women?

I would like to unwind that by looking at more Matt and Tia footage. In terms of like, let's take, I'm not going to make any statement off of one video of each, but let's take 10 videos of each and 10 videos. And then once we had a collection of information and tell, then we can make a better assessment to support what you're saying or to not support what you're saying. And again, I won't even discuss that off of one video and one video.

Good, good. Great dodging. Do you think if Matt... This is why I do podcasts now. So there's a long time where i didn't do podcasts and just lack of interest didn't care about getting out there and then about a year ago i decided all right i'm going to do podcasts again just to kind of to grow and learn and deal with questions and learn how to just not learn but practice navigating different questions or questions I don't want to deal with. I think Fraser can win the game with the coronavirus. I think he can get two cases of it simultaneously.

I think he's just so dominant. I mean, I haven't talked to him about his fitness. I talked to him about coffee, maybe, and kids. But would you say it's going to be easy for him? No. Fuck no. No way. It's not easy for anyone to win the games. Ask him, even for the ones he has won, if it was easy. And of course not. Ask Rich. Ask anyone who's won the games if it was easy for them. It's never easy for anyone to win the games. Some people are better prepared. Some people are in a better position to win. Some people have put in the work, have the genetics call it what you want. Some people are set to excel, but it's never easy.

Is this the hardest games ever? This will be the hardest games ever, for fucking sure. And you know what? How do you know that? The days are very unique. I look back at what we've done. How many days are the games this year? Three.

Three days. You were saying that. It's three days. Yeah, it's three days. I think we even put that out today. Okay, and there's not a surprise day coming. Well, it's three days. The games are three days. It's Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Yes.

Okay. The Friday's going to be a giant day, and we haven't done a giant day in a really long time. So that is going to start with a bang. And more importantly, it's going to end with a bang. We basically took the script and we took the popular belief on how to run a final event and how to do the final and how to program a final and just fucking tore it up and this final will be unlike any other final that we've ever done in the crossfit games and so from start to finish it is going to be a very different crossfit game

with no fans with no uh with a limited field we're able to do things differently and so we're doing things a little differently it's a hundred percent the hardest games ever i think so and again i'm saying that from my perspective of having programmed and not doing but i look at what i've programmed and what they're going to do and i think it's going to be the hardest game ever are tia and matt more prepared because of their experience and their success? Or has that hardened them and made them capable of handling the hardest games ever? Or are they rich and spoiled with success and soft and not having their fans there and their masseuses?

I'm assuming that you can't bring an entourage. No, you can't. Well, we'll find out, right? Do you have an opinion on it? entourage no you can't well we'll find out right what do you have an opinion on it well i think they're i think they're poised to do fine in that environment but i'm not going to say that they are we have to find out because it is different they so they have a really deep experience in competing at the crossfit games and years and years look before they were matt and tia before they were dominant they were competing and not winning. And that's just the way it goes.

You know, Matt had a couple of second-place finishes, one behind Ben, one behind Rich, before he got his victories. Tia, same sort of thing. She had a few years where she was just outside. Now they're not. Now they're the dominant figures. But all the years of games, everything we've done, minus the one ranch visit where it was less spectated when we came out,

it's going to be like that for the entire weekend. So it's going to challenge them. How many people can Matt bring? One. One? Yeah, everyone can bring one person. It's Matt and one person? But, yeah, some of the events that other person won't be allowed.

Really? Yeah. person but yeah some of the events that other person won't be allowed do you really yeah so matt's one there'll be an event where matt's just there with matt yes like him and no will be hanging out yeah no distractions yeah but i mean there'll be staff and right judges around right has the hotel already been picked and all that stuff uh-huh i mean it's a couple weeks away right and that and all that situated like basically they get bussed in in the morning and bust out you're you're reaching your end no no i'm good i got a few i got a few more um why keep up with the sigh oh i know the um the venue though the main venue is in morgan hill so that's kind of a new like i don't think we we haven't communicated that at all but we're basing out of a venue in Morgan Hill, doing most of the competition

there, and just kind of reaching out and doing a few things at Aromas. So the ranch is just a media stunt? It's not just a media stunt. The ranch is a gimmick. The ranch is not a gimmick. The ranch is going to bear some of the load of the event, not all of the load.

Will it be depressing to the community in five years when you sell the ranch for $200 million to a developer? It'll be exciting to me. That is some of the most, for people who don't know,

as Silicon Valley and the Bay Area explodes, that ranch is on the major corridor and the second biggest corridor in california yeah it sits right on there 65 acres yeah after 101 that my dad had subdivided into 10 parcels that he could that we could uh do you have plans for the ranch for the future do you have plans to sell it no no no no, no, no, no, no. Is there any discussion left in Rich coming back or is that discussion dead?

I would say it's dead and I'm disappointed by that. And you know, like, and plus this year was the year for him to do it same thing age by next year he'll be too far behind the curve and continue look the team thing is easy and that's why a lot of these athletes go to the team thing relative to competing individual are you gonna get in trouble for saying that no no it's easy relative to going individual because you are not the sole responsibility for the team doing bad. And in almost every case, Rich is the most, the fittest person on his team. So when the team's slowing down or when the team's not performing as well, it's not because of Rich.

It's because of other people on the team. And so that makes it easier. That makes it less stress. That makes it less demanding. And it's a nice graduation for people who don't want to have the entire pressure on them and don't want to still go through preparing for an individual competition. And that's kind of why he did it, I believe. And I think... And any of his kids. and don't want to still go through preparing for an individual competition. And that's kind of why he did it, I believe.

And I think... And he did it with his kids. Well, yeah, that has a major part to do with it. To spend more time with his family. But still pursue his passion and make money. He still trains as much as anyone else, you know, and so... Hmm. Hmm. So you call him bullshit? A little strong? No, it's not strong.

He's in his comfort zone, man. He's in this fucking fairytale life. And he has a successful business. He has a successful professional persona. He's killing it. He's surrounded by all these people who support him. And I believe there's a lot of people who are not challenging him and trying to get him outside of his comfort zone. And he does not want to leave this comfort zone that he's in.

And to leave that comfort zone and to be challenged would mean to compete individually. And, you know, when you look at someone like me, that's so fucking foreign. And why I say that's so fucking foreign is because my whole life, whenever I saw this, something that was really fucking challenging or hard to do, or, you know, uh, gonna challenge me to a level I've never been, I went fucking after it. When I realized the SEAL teams were the hardest, were the hardest, the physical tests and the challenge to become a SEAL was viewed as the hardest test in the military, physically, I decided to try that. I went after it. Then once I was a SEAL, when I realized there was another level to try out for

and to aspire to where you're putting your reputation as a SEAL on the line, I went after that. I was at the peak of my career and I went after and I aspired to the next level. And I did that. And so like I've always, in my mind, always taken challenges challenges gone after the challenges to succeed or to push me or to challenge me and so when i see what rich is doing and here he is at the peak or prime arguably maybe just slightly past it and instead of fucking running after that challenge going fuck yeah i'm gonna compete against matt fuck yeah i'm gonna go into the storm no he's he's staying comfortable and he's staying in his zone why would you do that you as soon as you sense fear in yourself you want to address it why would you not it's just it's a mentality it's a way of like thinking it's a way of fucking growth it's a way of challenging

yourself like that's what that's what makes us all better is taking on those impossible tasks, taking on going into the things that make you uncomfortable. Again, to go back to, he's really comfortable doing the team thing. He's really comfortable at home. And I call bullshit to this notion that he couldn't, he could, without modifying his training much, slip right into the individual field and do great. Proof in the pudding, his open results. He was 19th in the open. He was 19th in the open, meaning he has all the fitness he needs. He could have done this stage. He could have done the second stage. And, you know, sort of go back and I look at it and I think maybe he's afraid of failure

at this stage. Maybe he's afraid of of being exposed which he should not be at all um yeah do you do you put any value on perfect records like i don't really put value on perfect no bullshit i don't at all i don't put value on that either like who cares it's super cool it's super cool and i really respect floyd mayweather and his perfect record but it's also shouldn't be a reason to not take the next challenges right and not go there and i think people would like Rich even more, not that there's anything not to like now, but people would like him even more if he put it on the line against Matt and gave us that show. Oh, he'd be huge. He'd be huge. And here's the thing.

Again, this is all just my opinion and how I feel, and that's perfectly fucking fair. And I can have that opinion, and I can can feel this way and he can make the choice he made and he's fine. He doesn't care what I feel. I don't disrespect him for it. It's okay. In the Jordan documentary, at the end of it,

they talk to him about coming back a fourth year and the whole thing was that basically the ownership disbanded the team and they weren't going to be able to make a run for the fourth. And they asked him, hey, would you have done that fourth? And he goes,

basically he said, yeah, I'd have loved to have made a fourth run. Do you think he would have won? He goes, I don't know. I don't think so. But still, it would have been great to find out and to go for that challenge.

That's the fucking attitude right there. Jordan, like, it didn't fucking matter if he was going to lose, but he would have loved the opportunity to try. Two things. You've got to not be able to. Is Matt going to go for six, or is this going to be it for Matt? Is Rich the bar for Matt? I know Matt would claim he does not know.

No, I don't think Matt. Yeah, Rich is not the bar for Matt, especially at this point. You think Matt wins this, and then if he wins this, he still comes back? I don't think. Yeah, Rich is not the bar for Matt, especially at this point. You think Matt wins this and then if he wins this, he still comes back? I don't know, actually. Oh. Because he's like. He's a trippy cat. Yeah, he's different.

I don't know what he does. And I wouldn't even try to figure out. I don't care enough to like. Here's the thing. People, when Rich was leaving, people were like, oh, my God, Rich Froning, your star is leaving. What are you guys going to do about this sport? And I'm like, I don't care.'t care like it's gonna fucking survive and thrive and there's gonna be other stars same thing with matt man like hey if he wants to come for six awesome if he doesn't see you like fucking right off into like there'll be other stars and this sport will

be great and find noah there'll be there's plenty of other people who will who will help feed the story and the um the sport the sport is bigger than all of us the sport is bigger the sport and not fuck the sport the community crossfit is bigger than every one of us and that's like that's the thing people can't forget it's like this thing is moving and rolling and the momentum is so large and fundamentally it all comes back to because the methodology that Greg created works the method constantly varied functional movements executed at high intensity is why all of this exists it's why all of this is here. Word. Josh Bridges pursuing a boxing career. I love it. Have you heard anything about that?

No, I don't. I just want you to post it, but I love it. I mean, you can't. Okay, so here's the thing. He's not pursuing a boxing career. No, I know. He's 35. He's 35, 36 years old.

He's not pursuing a boxing career. But he wants to get in the ring and fight. He does? Yeah. Okay, but that's kind of the thing these days is all these celebrities getting in the ring and fighting. He posted a YouTube video that's really worth watching. And it's humbling for him, right? I mean, he looks great until he gets in there with this guy.

Yeah, well, that's how it is. And Josh even laughs at himself. Like, he swings at this guy and this guy ducks. Like, this guy's not hitable. Yeah, yeah. No, it's cool for him to pursue as a, even for conditioning, for interest. I love boxing. It's like, yeah, awesome.

Should he fight? I don't think so. It'd be fun to watch him fight one of these YouTube guys, YouTube kids. Well, like this Jacob Logan guy. What's his name? Yeah. Is that his name? He's been taking it really seriously over the

past few years yeah let josh should fight him he'll get his josh will get his ass kicked really yeah fuck yeah i mean that guy's been training now for two or three years boxing full-time he's a millionaire from his youtube shit he's got the fucking fun sources he's got the resources he's got the depth of experience now uh and and probably they're in completely different weight classes josh is this big this guy's this big so let's go back to this if it's 5 8 to 5 10 the age is 23 to 27 and the sport is crossfit how is matt fraser is let's say 5 7 at the most, right? 30 years old and Olympic lifting. So he's outside the archetype of the world's best CrossFitter. He's very close on height. So he might even actually be 5'6". It's definitely a shorter he's short. It's definitely a shorter stature.

He's very thick. He's very strong. He's very compact. He squats incredibly fast. I'm not talking about these things. I'm talking about his height, his age. This is his last year. Is he going to lose? Are we going to be surprised? Did age catch him in the opposite? No, it might have. I don't know if age has caught him yet can he lose yes absolutely will he lose i don't know but he can lose he's not good it's not a runaway like this it's a runaway it's not a runaway there's so much that can happen um noah's really fit a lot of these guys are really hungry and um we'll have to see right the? The very first time you saw

a casualty on the battlefield, do you remember that? Yeah. And like you remember it and remember it? Yeah. And do you remember the last time you saw it? No.

No. Now I have to think. That's a good question. Why do you remember the first time that you saw a casualty? I mean, that's probably a deeper question. Why do you remember the first time of anything, right? There's a lot of firsts we always remember, and that's the nature of a first, right? A first is so memorable.

It probably has something to do with that. Were you surprised? No. No. nature of a first right it's first is so memorable it probably has something to do with that were you surprised no no and here's the thing like uh because we trained entirely for those moments those outcomes like so much training in the past had been foundational to those moments years and years and years of training and just programming are foundational to kind of deal with and see and go forward um and do you think about your time in the service every single day no no no did you for a while when you came back no i i don't like like look there's a lot of guys who live it and who are living it and who can't let it go and who just fucking, like, their whole identity is it.

That it for me was a decade ago. That it for me was, like, I've had a lot of success in life and a lot of things I've done since then and even during then because I was working for CrossFit and ActiveDuty at the same time. And for me, it was really easy for that not to be the defining feature of me there's a lot of people now who that is the defining feature of them I didn't want that to be the defining feature of me it is a very important part of me it is a very important part of my past it is formative of who I am, but it is not defining of what I am now. I didn't want my past success. I didn't want to be judged or valued off of what I did in the past.

I want to be judged and valued off of what I'm doing now and into the future. You trained for, you were in the Navy for 14 years? 12 and a half. 12 and a half. And so you trained for this occupation, this occupation, you train, you train, you train for it, and then it's over. What skills do you bring to the CrossFit Games that you learned there? And to just your job at CrossFit?

Discipline, organization, being able to deal with chaotic environments and make quick decisions with being in quick high-risk decisions that need to happen now and not being frazzled by shit. I get fired up. I get fucking, I get going. You've seen me, but like i'm still in control and

like um being able to hand handle some of those tough decisions being able to keep the teams going being able to keep order amongst the athletes amongst the staff just organizing it all last two questions will there be a movie this year oh yeah i think so i think we're going that direction yes so it'll be a movie this year? Yeah, I think so. I think we're going that direction, yes. So it'll be a movie that's on iTunes and on Netflix. And do you know what the name of it is? The TDC documentary.

The reason why I ask what the name of it is is because there was a movie that we made called Froning the Fittest Man in History. And now if Matt Fraser wins... The newest fittest man in history. Yeah. So it's an interesting, it's interesting. Is there an extra, I mean, is there an extra focus on Matt because of that?

Do you know anything about sort of the idea of the film? No, I haven't gotten into the film on that level. Okay. Will there be behind the scenes? I hope so. I don't know. Are you available? I'm very available.

Maybe. All right. You know, I think that's it. Everything else is just about your family life. All right. Great. Well, thank you.