The Sevan Podcast - #14 - Jason Khalipa

Episode Date: October 27, 2020

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22, 23. So, oh wait. So wherever that puts me. I turned 22 because I turned 23, I So, oh wait. So wherever that puts me. I turned 22 because I turned 23 I think shortly after. I don't remember who I was filming but I was in CrossFit One World Freddie Camacho's gym and I was filming one of the

games athletes or one of the people who's going to go to the games. Was it Pat Barber? I don't remember who. It might have... I don't know if it was Pat but I remember you being at One World. Maybe you guys were there because they were doing a seminar. Maybe that's why you guys were there. I can't quite remember. I think I was there filming some stuff for Every Second Counts.

Yep. And you were there with Austin Biji Bing. Yep. Did I say his name right? Bigi Bing. Bigi Bing. And you were finishing a workout, and Austin and someone else started joking around

that he would bet anyone 100 bucks that you could beat him at a workout and as you left the room or as I introduced myself I go hey don't fuck up our movie but I was totally joking yeah because I was like I was like there's no way this guy's fucking up our movie right yeah because at that point I remember you guys were putting out clips of every second counts or like the trailers and like different type of clips with John Wellborn and, um, you know, uh,

Josh Everett and, um, Dutch, lowly Dutch. And I remember watching some of this pre stuff. I was like, Oh man, John Wellborn.

And, uh, it was getting me all fired up. And then obviously you guys showed up that day at one world. And that was like a big day. And I remember them saying like, Oh, so Siobhan and the film crew might be here.

I was like, Oh, you know, that was cool. That was a good throwback them saying like, Oh, Siobhan and the film crew might be here. I was like, Oh, you know, that was cool. That was a good throwback. One world, one world taught me a lot. That's where I did my first ever crossfit workout. And I'll never forget. I did, I did Fran and I had to deal with jumping pull-ups because at that point I was kind of more bodybuilder. I had done some weight tie a little bit. Um, but, uh, I couldn't get through all the pull-ups. So I ended up doing jumping and I remember afterwards not really recognizing what intensity and effort was.

So I wanted to go do like ab mat sit-ups. It was the, Freddie took me under his wing and taught me a lot. Jason Kalipa started with jumping pull-ups. Yep, on Fran. It took me like 12 minutes. I can't remember exactly. But that was my first workout. Wow.

I mean, that's like. Yeah, it was my first workout. That's awesome.'s awesome and you know there's also some clips and this could be interesting for people to look at where after that you know at the time there wasn't as many competitions and things like that so I watched the 07 games I got inspired by OBT and those guys and then I would um battle them on YouTube and so at CrossFit Unlimited, which was open shortly after with Austin, we were in a racquetball court, super small. I remember. And I had been working at the health club for a really long time. I met China Cho there.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, there you go. And we used to do battles on YouTube where I would do like these workouts. I still look back at some of them and man, they're just horrendous. Horrendous. We would battle people on youtube back and forth i also remember um you one time i think face to face i want to say was with jeremy teal did 1035 pound thrusters 10 burpees three rounds for you remember that no i don't remember

that one was that i've done it was crazy I've done a lot of weird throwdowns. The weirdest one, I'll tell you the weirdest throwdown I've ever done in my life. I think that one's on CrossFit somewhere. So, you know, we've competed. You've been around me. You've seen me compete a lot. But the weirdest one was I was coaching at our gym one morning, and I get done coaching. It was probably like, I don't know, 7 a.m.

It was pretty early. And I'm eating a piece of bacon and drinking some coffee after the class is over. And this guy walks in. He's like, hey, you're Jason Kleep. I was like, hi, nice to meet you. Welcome to the gym. He goes, no other words were spoken. He goes, I want to battle you in a 500-meter row right now.

And I'm sitting there eating a piece of bacon. I was like, he's coming to our gym. Just no, like, not even like, hey, nice to meet you. And so sure enough, we threw down a 500-meter row. What did he look like hey nice to meet you like right and so sure enough we threw down what did he look like what did he look like he was i mean was he formidable he was he was gonna he was gonna throw it out was he rowing his game or is he over 200 pounds well he was a little bit under 200 pounds but he definitely put on a good uh a good effort there was no one else in the gym it was just me and him and it was uh anyways that was a lot of fun that was that was one of

the oddest throwdowns i've ever done because it wasn't expected. And he kind of called me out. And so we, I ended up setting a PR on that one. And you won. I did win. One of the most remarkable things you did, and this should come 90 minutes into the interview right now. One of the most remarkable things ever done in the history of the CrossFit Games is the rowing event. Which one? The half marathon?

The fact that you won both, right? You won the 2,000 meter sprint and you won the half marathon. Yeah fact that you won both, right? You won the 2,000-meter sprint, and you won the half marathon. Yeah, that was a pretty cool event. You know, a lot of people… I think you're the only person who's ever said that, by the way. A cool event? Well, here's the reason I was… You and maybe first place of the women.

Yeah. The reason why it was a cool event is because a lot of times what people don't realize in CrossFit Games, and the CrossFit Games are actually going on right now, is you don't know you're going to win until you win for the most part. So like they're tight races, you're getting to the finish line and you're just, you can't really enjoy the moment because for the most part, you got to, you got to break through that finish line and then you could embrace it. Where there's been a few events in my career that I've won that, you know, you're going to win long before you actually win. And that's a really

cool experience. And two examples of that would be the burden run. You know, you come into the stadium and I was halfway through and I knew I was going to win before I won because I was ahead of the, you know, second place guy, whatever. And then same with the row event. So the row event was interesting, not the 2k, but the half marathon marathon because i looked at the scoreboard i think it was me and neil maddox if i'm not mistaken and i was so i was uh enough meters ahead of them that i had like two or three minutes to kind of embrace it enjoy it which was a super cool because you don't get that very often you and neil and garrett did remarkable in the first two events that year remarkable how much of that was the fact that you guys all trained together yeah it was like You and Neil and Garrett did remarkable in the first two events that year. Remarkable.

How much of that was the fact that you guys all trained together? Yeah, it was like 2013. That was a really great year. We had something really special. We had something really special brewing in NorCal for a couple years with Miranda and Pat and Molly and Alex and Neil and Garrett. It was just one of those things where like, um, iron was sharpening iron and each person was just trying to push each other. And, and for me, I was surrounded by this positive atmosphere of just working hard, you know,

Moran and others would come over to our garage, my garage in the morning. Um, she threw up in our garage multiple times cause she was just, we were all training so hard. And later on the day, the camaraderie really pushed each other. And was a huge part of that year too so I'd say that the success that we had in those events really was a testament to you know working with Chris Hinshaw on our running events because those were a lot more endurance based and then having this atmosphere in a group environment where we all push each other. What happened to Chris? I don't is he around? Yeah yeah I mean he's in Tennessee. I used to see him everywhere on social media and all sorts of videos, and I just haven't seen him like in a while.

Yeah, well, I mean, because of COVID, I mean, he hasn't been able to travel and do his seminars as much, but he's still doing his thing. I just talked to him last week. I try and keep in touch with a lot of that group. Was there ever any, I never heard of any tension, but as you're the big dog, it's your gym, you're the former champ, you have tons of great finishes,

and then you've got these guys, Garrett and Neil, training with you. Does there ever become tension? They start nipping at your heels. There starts becoming delusions that maybe Neil skipped one of his squats or that Garrett didn't press out all the way or that Jason quit before he was supposed to. Do you start unnecessary judgments of each other and alphaing, I guess? press out all the way or that Jason quit before he's supposed to like to start like unnecessary judgments of each other and like alphaing I guess yeah I mean a little bit because what would happen

with with Neil Neil was extremely talented I mean and he was just incredibly strong and so he would really push me outside the competition floor but on the competition floor I was able at times to kind of flip a switch mentally but off the competition floor in the on the competition floor, I was able at times to kind of flip a switch mentally, but off the competition floor in the gyms, he was an incredible training partner because he beat me most of the time. I mean, he was, he was on his stuff and Garrett, you know, Garrett would push me too. And so I don't know if there was much ego involved. I mean, obviously everybody wanted to do well, but we were all trying to get to a place where we were going to be our best version for the CrossFit games or regionals whatever it was one year at regionals neil and i went back and forth first and second on every event and i remember garrett uh the final

event um i ended up we ended up not taking first and second but dave told me later on that had we take first and second again on that event we would have had a fran off to figure out who won and that just sounds miserable. So I'm glad that didn't happen. But yeah, I mean, you know, there was definitely some alpha situations, but for the most part, the vibes were always right. It's interesting.

I'm going to make this grandiose statement. I don't know if it's true, but whatever. It's good for the podcast. Of all the games athletes that I was ever around, you were probably the most, one of the most easygoing, where Neil Maddox was not the least easygoing. Now, don't get me wrong.

I really enjoyed interviewing him. He was always great to me, but he was so hard on himself. He was. Whereas if you had a failure, you just seemed to brush it off and go to the next thing. He would just beat himself up. And so it's kind of interesting to maybe take your idea. You exceeded your expectations at the games. He fell below his

expectations. I don't know. I mean, you'd have to ask him about that. But, but for me, he was an incredible person to train with because he kept pushing me and you know, he, he did, he took, he took fitness, he took training super seriously and we all did at the time, but yeah, he was, he, he, he definitely took it seriously. That's for sure. When I saw you at the time, but yeah, he was, he, he, he definitely took it seriously. That's for sure. When I saw you at the gym at one world, what was your, what was your CrossFit experience prior to that? Had you been doing it for five years? No. Five months? At that point, it was probably, you know, a month before the OE games, if I'm not mistaken, give or take. Yeah. I've been probably doing it for about 10 months. So what happened with me is. By the way,

that's probably the shortest anyone's ever done CrossFit before they won the games. That could be a stat. I had been introduced to a health club called Mo'Pia's Home Fitness when I was in high school. Started working there at the front desk. Then when I graduated high school and went into college, I started working there full-time and going to college. about maybe a year or two in, I met Austin who his mom had found crossfit.com. This is really early on. And she had introduced him to it. And so him and I, for a while, we're just kind of like, look on the website, try a few things. We definitely cherry picked more bodybuilder type one. So if one of them came up that looked cool, we would do it. And so we did that for a while. And then essentially then when we

really committed, we did the work of the day every day. No, it doesn't matter what it was for a really long time. And then that's when, that's when I won the games. Yeah. That's incredible. And were you ecstatic when you saw the final event? No, I mean, I was, I mean, that was, you know, I don't know if you remember, but in 08, you know, they had the, if I'm not mistaken, it was like, you know, we picked our events on Saturday, right? You would pick, you didn't pick your event, but you'd pick the order of your event. There was three of them. And then based on that, then you either qualified or not for the final. And so when the final was announced to me, it was definitely something I

was, you know, in my wheelhouse, but you know, I didn't know how I was going to perform or anything. It was just, you know, just went home. And went home. Oddly enough, it's so funny. I won the Games in 2008, and it was an incredible moment. Afterwards, we went and got In-N-Out Burger, and we were celebrating. I won like $1,500, if it was. But the accomplishments later on in the career were definitely the highlights compared to 2008. 2008 was great, but the work that I had put in over the next eight I put in over the next eight years made those other accomplishments a little bit more meaningful to me because I had a lot of blood, sweat, and tears

to get there. I'm making the presupposition that you know about all professional sports, so feel free to push this question away, but is being a professional athlete a career? I heard Dana White recently say that being a UFC fighter is not a profession, it's an opportunity. And I always viewed CrossFit athletes as sort of like that. Basically, your goal would be to win the games. We're very fortunate that we're in a social media era where you can actually take your fans with you. There's football players who are famous as all, you know, all get out, and the second their career's over,

everyone forgets about them. But you, you can retire from CrossFit as a CrossFit athlete and take your half a million followers with you. How, but I hear these athletes like, I feel like I hear athletes believe that this is a profession, and I just wanted to, I don't think it's a profession. I think it's something that you, one, if it is a profession, it would be a horrible profession to go into, any professional sport,

because so few people make it to the top. Do you have opinions, strong opinions, thoughts on that? For people who are at the top, you parlayed your success into something, right? Yeah. And it wasn't a gimme. No, I mean, look, I'm a big believer that no one owes me anything and that everybody works and earns what they have. And they're given opportunities and maybe there's some luck involved, of course. But, I mean, people who get to the top of our sport, they've worked really hard for a really long time to get there and they deserve what

they're receiving. I do think that, um, at some level, some people, 100% are professional athletes. The Matt Frazier's of the world are, are, if you consider a professional athlete as someone who gets paid to perform in a sport, if that's like a definition, then by definition, there's quite a few of them. Now, if you then change that definition as someone who could actually live off the income they get, okay, maybe that changes a little bit more. Now, where it gets a little fishy or interesting is that once your career is done in competing, what framework does that give you for the future?

And that's where you just need to be smart as an athlete. So as an athlete, you start coming up, you start building up your reputation, you start working really hard, you start competing. Maybe you get 10th, 20th. No one really knows who those people are. You got to be in the top three, top five to, to gain any notoriety, to really gain any type of sponsorship revenue. But then the question becomes as your, as your brand builds and as your social media following, what could you do with that to create something that's going to last you for the rest of your life? And I think that if I could do it all over again, what I would have spent more time doing is building brands that I owned or had some stake in and something I could be with forever. Because as you compete, and you get sponsors by, let's just say for the sake of argument,

a clothing company or a supplement company, you get paid. And that's really alluring. Hey, I'm going to give you $10,000, whatever. And at the time you really want to take that money because you need it. But then when you're stopped competing and those sponsorships go away, the fruit of your labor, the work, when you were at the peak of your career, it to drain you know go off and so i i would encourage any athlete as they start to build up to be more of a professional career use this as a beautiful microphone as a way to build your brand to then catapult you into something else you're super passionate about and that you can lean on for the rest of your life long after your career is complete in the sport.

And the career seems so, I don't know if fickle is the right word, but it bounces on a precipice because you're one injury. You not only have all these people who are trying to take what you have, right? Yeah. But you could be injured. Yeah. Like there's nowhere to go. You have to be smart yeah it's a it's a it's a really difficult job to have because but it's a great job to have i mean

right there's so many pros about it you're doing what you love you're training hard and honest but to make it to the top and to make any type of real money i mean i think some people think that athletes are making more money than they are and money is not the only um you know thing that we're determining success here. You're also, there's also a factor that you get to do what you love for a living and whatnot. But I think all athletes need to kind of be realistic that what sacrifices are they making to win? Cause you gotta be all in where, you know, during your peak earning years, you know, in your twenties and you just gotta be realistic and, and, um, you know, kind of have some deep

thought because you could turn around and you've been taken 20th in the games 30th in the games you're getting whatever and you can turn around you're five years in and what are you building aside from that you just got to ask yourself that question that's all right um i used to hear a lot about accusations of steroids yeah this person is steroids this person is steroids yeah most of the accusations came from outside the sport or or athletes who lost to someone right there's no way that guy could beat me unless he did steroids of course um in your entire career with crossfit have did you ever see any performance enhancing drugs in my entire career of CrossFit. Amongst the Games athletes, amongst the regional athletes, yeah. I never once witnessed, ever, anybody taking anything that enhanced their performance, like illegally, right?

I mean, I drink coffee and whatever, right? But no steroid use ever. I was never presented with it in CrossFit ever. And I never did any of it. So, I mean, that's my take. And people can believe me or not, it's irrelevant to me because I have my truth and that's my truth is that I've never been presented with steroids. I've never seen anybody use steroids. And I think that people that immediately revert and say, oh, that person does steroids, they need to look deep within and start asking themselves,

why do they instantly think that this person had to cheat to get their performance, right? What about just good old hard work? And I don't know. Maybe I'm tainted. Maybe I'm skewed. But I don't believe as many people are doing it as people think. Not to mention, I've been drug tested more times than I can count. I'll tell you why. Because I've been drug tested more times than i could count it's it's um i'll tell you why because i've been working out forever and i look nothing like you but i also want to say

this the accusations i've heard about a particular athlete doing steroids one particular athlete female athlete i know is endless and i never believed she did steroids and then a couple years ago she made a video of her mom just in the kitchen she goes mom show me your muscle and her mom flexed her muscle and it was identical genetics some old lady had fucking guns in a shoulder so unless she the mom's juicing and the daughter's juicing right there's no way that mom was juicing so then I was just like okay yeah yeah I mean genetics definitely mean, genetics definitely play in a role. Hard work, you know, consistently. Consistency plays a big role, you know.

It's just like here at our gyms, right? People come in the first day, they're all fired up. They're eating paleo, working out seven days a week. But what if you work out three days a week for years, right? That's how you really start to see some big change. And it goes the other way, too, to why some people don't end up looking like you. Look at Dave Castro. World-class double-under guy.

Zero calves. Zero. He is good at double-unders. Zero calves. Dude, do you remember that one video me, him, and Dave Lipson did in his garage with his deadlift? Do you remember that video? It wasn't you. It was just me, him.

I don't know. Was it the one where it took him forever to stay in? Oh, yeah. You witnessed that live? It was there. We did it together. That was just me, him. I don't know. Was it the one where it took him forever to stay in? Oh, yeah. You witnessed that live? It was there. We did it together. That's his greatest meme. Oh, my God.

Dude, I swear, me and Dave, I was watching it, Lipson, and he gets it off the floor, and he's just like, and I'm like, after like maybe 10 seconds, I look at Dave, I'm like, hey, man, should we like tell him to drop the bar? But anyway, he fought through it. That was an impressive feat. So you win the games. So you get introduced to CrossFit by Austin. You win the games.

And that's your beginning of your relationship with CrossFit. Yeah, and it got deep. Yeah, and here we're at in 2020, and you own several gyms. None of them are CrossFit gyms anymore, right? No. But they're gyms. They're places that people can come and become the best of themselves. They have that similarity with CrossFit.

And so I kind of want to just like... How do we go from... Yes, yes, yes, yes. And there's so much. There's so much. One of the interesting things about talking to you is in the in the early years in 2008 we talked a lot a lot more than we do now yeah and um you have this tremendous perspective as someone who didn't work at hq like with the affiliates with the athletes with just the common crossfitter all of that so immersed more than i do and i have this tremendous perspective of being just right in the center of the storm from the beginning to the end so it's kind of it's kind of exciting we probably

can't even do it all in one podcast no i mean there's a lot to unpack after winning the crossfit games you guys came out and uh you guys filmed some content with me and you know like we were just talking about like your your car broke like you were there i think i remember bragging to you it was the greatest car ever made and then it was like a silver mercedes it was 86 it was the first mercedes ever with an airbag oh off the off the line in 86 it was 106 000 car was most expensive production car ever i bought it like in 2000 whatever six for like four thousand dollars on craigslist i was so excited it was the car all the rappers talked about when i was a kid but yeah man you guys would come out a lot and that's when

we had crossfit santa cl Clara was the first gym we opened. And we opened that. So I signed that lease before I won the CrossFit Games. So let me ask you this. Was there tension between you and Austin when you broke away

and opened your own gym? No. At that point, CrossFit was so grassroots. It was really about, hey, how do we grow this thing? Okay. And it was really that environment.

And so what happened with Austin, so in 0, I graduated from college in 08 and when i graduated in college i chose i wanted to own a gym and at that time austin is not only your coach he's doing your programming he's your mentor he introduced you he's a great coach and then and you break away and open a gym i shouldn't use the word breakaway you get inspired and open your own gym, and he's cool with it. He's supportive. Yeah, because that had always been part of the plan.

I always knew I was going to graduate from college, and I was going to go and open a gym. Especially after that interviewer told you, get a better suit. Yes. So, you know, I knew I wanted to do this. And I thought I was going to open up a conventional gym. But when I was introduced to CrossFit, this idea of a coach and a community and a culture. It really resonated with me and specifically the clock really resonated. And so when I graduated from college, I knew I was going to open up a gym. And so we signed a lease and then I won the games. And so it all kind of compounded and it was really powerful

because the games, you know, people ask me sometimes like, does that notoriety help build the business? Well, it surely doesn't hurt. But what it does, it gives you an opportunity to have a conversation. And then as long as you're not a jerk and you're offering a great product, people will stay with you. But if you're a jerk and you're not offering a good product, they won't stay with you. And so that gave us a really good platform that we built off of in a way opening up Crossroads Sampler. And you took your, you took, I'm just making, I got paranoid

that I wasn't recording. That it's not working? So you, before you open your gym, you have to take your L1. Yeah, I took an L1 in San Diego with,

I took an L1 in San Diego and actually at that point, we did Fran as the workout and that was before the games as well. And how was your L1 in San Diego. And actually at that point, we did Fran as the workout. And that was before the games as well. And how was your L1? It was cool. I mean, look, you talk about my depth with HQ. With CrossFit?

With CrossFit. Nothing I wanted more than to be on seminar staff. That's where I was going. Yeah. So you took your, did you take your L1 in that? When were you inspired to want to be on seminar staff? Was that at your L1? I was inspired by seminar staff with, you know, in so many different ways, but you know,

yeah, after my L1 and then after meeting more people, you know, I would film content with Tony Budding and Pat Barber down in Santa Cruz and I was introduced to the HQ crew. I really wanted to be a red shirt, right? And that didn't happen for another year or two down the line, but at my level one, I had a great experience. I was, I found the connection that was fostered. There was, it was beautiful. And you know, I'll never, Dave closed it out. It was so funny, man. He goes, any other questions? No one raises their hand. And so then he gets on and he's like, all right guys, so I want you to do, you know know three on one off and always always go heavy and like got

like really like really like it was like one of those moments we like leave and like go charge and then some guy raises his hands like so how about you know macros or something like that nutrition and david it just like went the energy just went from like, we're going to leave on a high to anyways. But after that, talked to Dave a little bit, won the games, and then started trying to get on seminar staff after that for a while. And how was that? You made it. I did make it. I had a tough go.

I mean, you have to earn it. Just because you're a CrossFit Games champion doesn't mean anything. You have to earn it. And I did my level one, level two. I did my level two again. You actually were micing me for one of my level twos. I was so nervous. And it really helped me refine my skills.

And so then I became a seminar instructor like in 09 after the CrossFit Games. After the events, Dave and Nicole took me aside and said I was on seminar staff. And for the next couple of years, I mean, every single weekend I was traveling the country teaching CrossFit. next couple years i mean every single weekend i was traveling the country teaching crossfit and so as far as i'm concerned you know from very early on as an outsider of hq except for working seminars i was as deep as you can get into it i loved it i still do love it it's i came here thinking that you sort of stumbled into this because i just stumbled into crossfit i i met a guy who worked out and he said he did CrossFit and he told me what he did and I didn't believe him. And then so I went to the website.

I'm like, oh shit, people really do this. Yeah. And then there weren't any videos on the site or very few, just a couple. So then I contacted, you know, Greg and Lauren and I started making videos. But you knew that you wanted to be in the gym business. And then you sort of stumbled into CrossFit through Austin, right? You were in that scene and there was this thing coming up, up and coming. And then you become an L1 staff. Are you married at that point? Yeah, I got married in 2009. Okay.

My wife and I met really early. I've seen the pictures of you guys in high school together yes we know we were 15 you guys kind of don't look different oh thanks i guess yeah it's kind of crazy she cut her hair a couple days ago she looks like 10 years younger it's pretty crazy i mean um your hat's a little not as nice in some of your high school pictures oh yeah and your bill's a little yeah a little bit a little more band i might have an earring too yeah your posture might not be as good but man yeah um so you guys have been together 20 years and you've been married for nine years uh no married uh yeah we got married in 09 so 11 years 11 years and you have two kids ava and caden uh nine and six yep that i, that's a, that's a lot. How, how has she been

completely supportive the whole time? Was she ever like, Hey man, just get a job at Starbucks so we can get health insurance. No, she's been super supportive since day one. I mean, you know, when we opened the gym in a way, it's not all rainbows and unicorns and it's difficult to start a business. And you know know, I, I would be at the gym super long hours. I mean, all the time, but at that point we were young, we were, we didn't have any kids. We were engaged at the time and, and we just kind of built it together. She was my support system and we, we did some really cool stuff. I mean, she'd come in every day and kind of like, you know, she would train and yeah, she's been there the whole

time. And then in 09, we got married a week after the CrossFit games. I got poison Oak actually in the 09 CrossFit games from this hill run. And so I had it for the wedding on my arms, which kind of sucked. So we got married in 09 and then, um, fast forward, you know, as the business grew, you know, as the business grew, our relationship was growing. And then, um, we, we had Ava in 2011. And so that's where things started to really kind of escalate where our business in 08, 09, 10, we had opened one location to three, I think at that point, probably at three locations. And then we signed a big corporate wellness account that really expanded us. And then I also had our daughter and that's where questions started to come up with mine and Ashley's relationship on how long was I able to do the CrossFit games thing for it started kind of questioning around 2012. So I was all in, you know, compete regionals, you know, open regionals

games, team USA. I mean, it was a year round thing, but every year we would sit down and have that conversation. And then, and then coming into 2014, 15, she was kind of, kind of hitting her end. We had two children at the time. And so I went team in 15 and then Ava got diagnosed with leukemia in 2016, which made the decision to stop competing super easy. Um, you know, I was already kind of trending that way because of other things in life, but that made the decision very clear cut. Marriage is hard. Yeah.

It's fun. Business is hard. It's fun. Kids are hard. They're fun. Through the years, I've noticed that there's people in my life who like compartmentalize their life like they have work and they have vacation and they have their family and i never could do that i never desired to do that for me it's just like this i just move through life and

it's just all one thing yeah does that make sense there's two different paradigms how do you do it do you have like okay i'm going on vacation for two weeks i'm not gonna look at my phone or is it no it's just always jason wherever you go it's all there with you so i wrote a book i don't know maybe like a like two years ago it's called as many reps as possible and what the theory was is that that's amrap mentality yeah when i was first introduced to crossfit it really changed my life profoundly And so anybody watching this needs to understand that I have a lot of respect and homage for what CrossFit taught me because it taught me to get more work done in less time. And that was super rewarding in the gym,

but it was even more rewarding for outside the gym. It also taught me to overcome adversity and it taught me so much, right? And competing in particular. But what an AMRAP taught me is how to be present and focused. Right now, I'm not on my phone. I'm just here with you. I'm super focused on this conversation. And that's what I try and live my life. This morning, I got up early. I did boxing with the kids and I worked out separately. And now I'm here with you and then I'll go do my next thing I try and have each one segment my day in little am wraps because what was

happening in my life and this was around 2011-12 I was having a really difficult time compartmentalizing we were opening locations in Malaysia Singapore Thailand China I'd be on what year was that this was like 11 12 11 and what I was doing is I'd be on conference calls, right? And I'd be, you know, on an assault bike trying to get my intervals in and I wouldn't be paying attention to the call. And maybe this has happened to you where like your, your body's somewhere, but your brain's somewhere else or vice versa.

And I found that I would always leave things and ask myself, did I really give it my best effort? And so then I started incorporating, Hey, I've never gotten more product productive time than when I am wrapped things. And thanks to CrossFit, I learned about an AMRAP. And so I started incorporating that in my life. AMRAP with the kids this morning, I can show you a video. It's pretty funny. Katie almost nailed me in the face, but AMRAP AMRAP here. And that's where I started to segment my life because I wanted to win at the CrossFit games. I wanted to be the best businessman. I also wanted to be a good husband and father.

So whatever you're doing, do that. Yeah. I mean, the idea would be like, again, if you think about exercise, if I said, hey, give me two minutes of max pushups, that's all you would do. You wouldn't segment it. And so when I'm with the kids, I try and be all in with them and be focused on how do I give myself? How do I reach my potential right here, right now? And that doesn't mean that I can't go take a business call or whatever. But if I'm going to take a business call, let me go take the business call.

I'm not going to take a business call and then be like kind of like funneling my kids around. Because now I'm half in on the call. That's what I do. It gets difficult because then you feel like, oh, shit shit i'm kind of like not paying attention to them but i'm also kind of not paying attention here either right and that's what was happening to me i did a lot of that for way too long and i'm still not perfect obviously i got a lot of room to grow but that's what i think about the most difficult thing and i don't have cameras in your house but i'll tell you the most difficult thing for you is when you're in your office working and you come out to use the bathroom,

and you see one kid's having trouble with the jar to open, so he asks you to open it. You notice that the dryer just finished, so you've got to take the clothes out and switch the clothes. And then you hear someone's at the front door, but you only came out of your office to use the bathroom. And you've done four things, and one of your sons is like, I can't find the Lego head to my Spider-Man. You're like oh my god are you kidding me now you have six things going well like what's been really you know here's a great example is like as soon as you come home from the office let's just say this is our office when i come home you know my son wants to go do something and in the past like

i used to get like no no kidding no no no no no no like i'd be on the phone and i realized like that's my fault like if i can't be in a position where I know when I walk in the door, he's going to want to go ride bikes or do something. So I might as well not even walk in the door until I'm ready. Right. I just, I always would come home and be like, Hey man, you know, 10 more minutes, buddy. I'm just on the phone. It's like, dude, just go sit in the car and just wait because that's something I'm working on. It's a constant struggle. I like that. And a constant thing that I'm working on with my kids because, but you know, something else that CrossFit really taught me and competing, the greatest gift that competing ever gave me was just this idea of overcoming the adversity,

you know, like having your back against the wall, learning how to compartmentalize and then, and then move forward. I mean, I think more people need to get uncomfortable because when life really kicks you in the balls, you'll be in a better position to overcome it. And that's a huge blessing that CrossFit Games gave me. Yeah, definitely. I relate because everything, how I raise my kids and people, I mean, you probably get this, is everything I learned in my L1 that basically struggle causes adaptation and what to eat i mean in a nutshell yeah and so from the beginning people always ask me when do you start

training your kids oh the second they come out what do you mean tummy time and set the clock when they cry you set the clock for 30 seconds and don't try not to go pick them up you know what i mean it's just struggle and adaptation yeah we tried the whole you know let the kids cry until they fall asleep that one didn't work no i we didn't do that one that was tough yeah but yeah i mean you know that one is really tough it is you know but struggle does create adaptation you know like this morning for example ava and i were she was on the assault bike i was on another bike by the way congratulations i know she rides the assault bike now i saw your post she's tall enough I can't wait till my boys are tall enough. I know that was a huge accomplishment. Now she's super tall, but, but yeah, you know, so, you know, having them try and set a goal, overcome it, but use fitness as a

beautiful catalyst has always been something I think is really powerful. I interrupted your story. You're going to say she was on the assault bike. She's on the assault bike and, and, and, you know, she, she hit her 40 calories, which is like our benchmark in the morning. And then she got in some squats, whatever, but, but she hasn't really, she hit her 40 calories, which is like our benchmark in the morning. And then she got in some squats, whatever. But she doesn't really, she's just getting comfortable with that uncomfortableness. And it's just becoming a normal part of life. And we're finding a way to keep it fun, exciting. But I think that's really important for people.

And I think it's especially important for kids is that, you know, we want to provide these guardrails. We want to protect our kids. I think that's really important. But I also know that life could come and really hit you from the side. I mean, shit, our daughter got diagnosed with leukemia. We didn't see that coming. And so from that day on, I learned that, like, things could happen. And how do I prepare them for the unknown while still being within reason, not crazy?

And I think exercise is a great way to introduce them to that theory. When recently my oldest son has been complaining about getting sweaty, within reason, not crazy. And I think exercise is a great way to introduce him to that theory. Recently, my oldest son has been complaining about getting sweaty. He gets really sweaty, right? And he doesn't want to be sweaty. But he has to get sweaty because he works so hard. And it was funny because then I remembered I had a section in my life before CrossFit where I didn't like to be sweaty either. I hated being sweaty.

And now that I do CrossFit, I don't care. It's like my preferred. Yeah. It's my preferred. preferred more that drips the better yeah what so tell me the first so so you get on the l1 staff tell me the first time you meet greg glassman i met him at the crossfit games 2008 that's right he put his arm around you and he said this is the product this is the product and product. And then Lauren had the winning money tucked in her shirt. Oh, really? Yeah.

It was just, yeah. Like in... I'm pretty sure, yeah. Did you have to get it out? I don't know. You cannot confirm or deny? I don't remember. I don't think so.

I don't know, but... She was barely clothed there. She was barely clothed there. That was the first time I met Lauren and Greg. I will tell think so. I don't know. She was barely clothed there. She was barely clothed there. That was the first time I met Lauren and Greg. I will tell you this. So when we edited the, we made every second counts for $17,000. It was just Carrie Peterson and I. Yeah.

We made that whole movie pretty much last minute. It was awesome. Great experience. But in that final scene, there was discussions, how are we going to cut her out? Because the, her apparel and her dress was so distracting. I mean, she was falling out of her shirt. So we did it. We, it was, it was interesting. It was, yeah, that was, that was my first time. There were, yeah, that was crazy. Okay. And then what, do you remember the second time you met him? What, do you remember how your relationship built with him because now you have his phone number right yeah i um you know we would see him at the trainer summit you would see him at the trainer

summit we'd meet off and on and then i got a call from him one time so we would i got a call from him in like 2000 and it was like 2010 or 11 and he wanted me to compete in the regional so what what had happened was we we knew each other we meet each other whatever it was cordial it was all good and then um in one year the regionals remember a long time ago they said hey if you have a champion you get into the CrossFit games for life. Yes. I remember that. That was like the original deal. Yep. And I remember it was like 2011, 10. I can't remember the exact year, but Greg called me. He's like, Hey man, I need you to compete in the regionals or sectionals or whatever it was. And at that point, I didn't really care. Like I was ready to throw down and I didn't like the idea of just having the card to get through. And, but that was the first time we had spoke that length.

And then after that we started developing a little bit more relationship and it has definitely had its highs and lows to say the least. From where I could, from where I sat inside of HQ, the biggest contention between greg and yourself was the fact that the um and this is a really it should be a whole podcast what is a crossfit affiliate i don't think anyone really knows what a crossfit affiliate is but um yeah uh i went to your website and you have something called the nc fit partner program and you list out these 10 things that you provide for your partners brand webinars operations information creative sales marketing e-commerce advisory board mentorship and you can click on any of those and they go into holes of

information so you have and then you have a map and you can see all the all over North America and I think there were some in Europe right of all the NC partners and you have it map and you can see all the all over north america and i think there were some in europe right of all the nc partners and you have it laid out for a monthly fee hey we this is um it's um for lack of a better word i would say maybe it's an affiliate program what did you what do you prefer to call a partnership program yeah it's a partner program yeah it's a license model very very similar to the the original model across the world that way and you're offering all of these insights and i don't want to minimize it at all that's why i'm being very careful on how to start a business run a business maintain a business have culture have outreach how to maintain authenticity how to make videos

more than i could possibly have dug into but i but I know you and I was just like holy shit this is some like crazy thorough stuff on the other hand you have this brand where so so going back so I think that's where the contention was because Greg had this hands-off approach who the fuck are you to say anything to anyone about how to run a business? I mean, it was like the, it was, I think his whole thing was just have a clean bathroom. And if your business fails, it's your fault because people don't like you. Yeah, him and I. Kind of end of box, right?

There was definitely some contention between him and I. Do you agree that you think it's around this subject particularly? Yes, because I would go, look, I pay a lot of respect to Greg for the methodology that he created that changed my life forever. Where him and I would always have conversations about which sometimes you were at, quite a

few of them, was that I felt like his idea of the cream will always rise to the top, I understood it. I get it. But at some point when you become the cream and you rise to the top, everything else pulls you down. And therefore, if you're all CrossFits, but you believe you provide the best product around, then the other CrossFits do nothing but diminish your brand. And you have an obligation to rebrand or rethink that. And so I pleaded with him for many, many years. I can testify to that. I mean, I begged him, please, let's put together this. Let's put together some baseline things. Stuff that's not even controversial. Like, hey,

in California, even AED. I remember you even saying that. Right. Non-controversial stuff, right? Very basic. Obviously, all the business stuff too. But I pleaded with him, please let us go out to the affiliates because we need to rise the tides. We need the overall ecosystem to raise up so we could create sustainability. Otherwise, you have these gyms that there's just no consistency. We need some consistency. We need to share some best practices.

And, um, it was always just a major hurdle and that's what caused quite a bit of friction between him and I. And there's a lot of mutual respect. I feel like, or at least I had respect for him. Sometimes we would set up meetings and he wouldn't come. And there was definitely some, some challenges there. I always respected Greg and I always will for what he's provided. some challenges there i always respected greg and i always will for what he's provided but i i had this goal and this dream of watching owners be able to to actually provide for their families and provide for their coaches and they needed some additional guidance and we need eventually we just said hey we didn't just go do our own thing it's funny from it's not that you man that's that's a really benevolent position to come from it's not that you're like hey i know what the fuck i'm doing come give me money over here i'll help you it's like hey man we're this some of you well you you nailed it perfectly some of you aren't doing

as well as us and you're bringing us down let's help you i was always here's some things that work for us. Not even things that you would enforce. Right. I just hope for the record, like for anybody who looks at us and is like, oh, you know, when we announced the partner program, we got some flack and we could talk about that.

But what people don't know is I spent years, years and years and years trying to do this with CrossFit. You can attest to that. Yep, yep, yep. I mean, I must have met with Greg countless times. I've been at many, many of those meetings. Eventually,

that's what caused some friction between us. It was quite a few of those things. I said, hey, that's when we had to rebrand. We rebranded from NorCal CrossFit and CFIT for a variety of reasons. For a variety of reasons. We wanted, for a variety of reasons, but we want to be in control of our own destiny and we wanted to raise the bar and we, we, we felt like we were

working towards being the cream and we needed to continue to create some baseline structure for all the locations. And so we, then we rolled out the NC Fit collective, which is our session plans and programming. And that led to the partner program. His was, um, let the, let the cream rise to the top. Yours was like, Hey, that worked in the beginning. What's interesting is that yours does yours doesn't interfere with that model either. It compliments that model, right? Yeah. Let them rise. If they don't rise even with your help, but your help isn't going to sink them. Right. The thing that is CrossFit has a low barrier to entry. You get a level one, you sign a lease on a warehouse and there's a low barrier to entry. That's great. It provided the tools to get us where we're at today. And I'm forever grateful. However, the low barrier to

entry, there's also a very high learning curve, very, very high. And if I could go back and had someone to mentor me and support me, I would have taken that 10 times out of 10. But back then we were just flying by the seat of our pants, all of us. And now we want to provide those tools. You know, we've been owning and operating gyms for 12 years. I mean, the, the, the good and the bad that I've seen, I want to share that. And that's why we have the partner program because we actually operate gyms. Two things. Can you give me an example of just one thing that's along that really steep learning curve? I mean, training, developing staff, for example, setting clear guidelines of job expectations

and descriptions with career growth, right? If I could do it all over again, we are a service-based business and we didn't spend enough time sitting down and saying, hey, what is the actual job description of a coach? What is success failure? And what does the job trajectory look like? Where can they go in the future? And we left it just too open-ended. If you had a clear cut, hey, you need to wear an NC fit shirt. You need to arrive on time. These are your job scope. If you agree to it, we're good. And then this is what your job leveling criteria looks like. So as you advance in these ways, you will get paid more in

these ways. Instead of just coming to us and say, hey, I need more money. Why say, hey, show me on the job leveling criteria, you know, what you've been doing to earn more. I would have quantified it more from the staff perspective. And then, you know, I would have, um, there's a variety of other things I would learn from a business perspective, but staff being number one, clear expectations and guidelines. Pete, it's, it's funny. Um, Pete, someone can go, I agree with you 100%. Someone can go into a job they completely love, but as soon as the honeymoon period is over, if the boss isn't giving them direct, like people want to work for someone they love. Yep. Don't think you're helping boss isn't giving them direct like people want to work for someone they

love yep don't think you're helping them by not giving them direction yeah the dog wants to be told like i loved getting clear direction clear direction and clear direction yeah you know yeah and we weren't giving any clear so we went through this honeymoon period with the affiliates and then when it was over we didn't give them any clear direction also i mean on a different scale yeah i mean i shouldn't say we i guess it was we back then for me um we there's there's a lot of things that i've learned along the way that i want to share with other owners and i wanted to do that underneath the CrossFit umbrella. I wanted to see CrossFit thrive, and I still do to this day. But we need to be about us, and we needed to embark on our own journey because that journey was not something that CrossFit was interested in doing.

And that's where we rolled out the partner program, the NCFIT Collective, and a lot of other things we have, and we rebranded. Are you surprised at how successful the partnership program is? Well, we only rolled it out like two, three months ago. So the map looks pretty impressive. So about four years ago, we rolled out what was called the NC Fit Collective. So here's what, like at a high level,

I know we're totally shifting the business. No, it's fine. Our business started off with one location, two, three. Then we expanded to corporate wellness. And so we opened up, let's just say 20 locations. And what I recognized is that our quality of the product that we were delivering, it wasn't consistent. And that's exactly my gripe with the whole consistency, right? So I said, Hey, how do we provide consistency within our own gyms? So we started doing Google docs, this, that long story short, we create our own app and our own session plans,

daily videos, programming with warmups and scaling and coaching development tools that every single day a coach can feel like they're getting developed. And then we did that for ourselves. And then we started rolling that out to other owners who needed that. So when a coach comes in and says he's winging it, they have a clear guideline of how they're getting developed that day. What are they learning that day? How are they going to run their class that day? And so then we started selling this to other owners. And that grew exponentially.

With that, our collective audience was saying, hey, we want to dive deeper with NC Fit. We want more. But we didn't have any more to give until we rolled out the NC Fit Partner Program. That is, boy, you keep taking, I want to stay on my own track, but you say such cool shit that I keep switching off to your track. Amen. Let me ask you two quick things before I want to talk about session plans.

Sure. Is there anything that you make these partners do? Is there anything mandatory for them to do? Do they have to paint their walls white? That's a really good question. So, good question. So because it's not a franchise model, it's a license model, right? There's obviously room for interpretation, right? we can't tell them exactly what to do. We're going to strongly encourage them to use the collective. It starts off with session plans, programming to put some guardrails. So you don't show up for one NC fit partner gym and you're doing 500 GHC setups and you go to the next one and you're doing, uh, whatever we want. We want to have guardrails when it comes to the product on the floor. It starts there because that's where you had a lot of, um, you know, from my experience,

I've probably traveled to over a thousand gyms and you can see a huge variance. Yes. In the way the building looks, of course. Right. But the product on floor, there's huge variance there too. You'll have some gyms where the coach will turn on the clock and just turn on the music and go sit down. You'll have others where they'll have extreme cases in both ways.

We wanted to create some guardrails. So that's… Warm-up, workout, cool-down, all the gyms do the same every day in an ideal world. In an ideal world, we strongly encourage that. Then the way the NC Fit Partner Program works is that we need to earn it. So at first, if you want to pay us the license fee, just for all the tools, the monthly webinars, all this stuff we're doing great. And you don't want to use our likeness at all. That's fine. That's your prerogative. Then if you want to become Savon's gym, NC fit partner, hell yeah,

that's the next step. But then if you want to become NC fit Savon, that's the third step. And we need to earn the right every single time. So I know that our brand isn't as big as CrossFit. I get it. But in the beginning, we want to prove value with the content we provide and all the different tools. Then once they feel like they're kind of getting more bought in, they become a partner on their website. Then as they get more bought in, they might become NC Fit forward. And we're going to evolve that over time to streamline how the gyms look. But we're not going to tell them exactly what to do. We're just going to provide recommendations. So you're basically, you've built this ecosystem that you the gyms look, but we're not going to tell them exactly what to do. We're just going to provide a recommendation. So you're basically, you've built this ecosystem that

you think gyms can flourish in and you're inviting them in. That's it. Yeah. And they can come in as fast or as slow as they want. Yeah. And the difference between us, I mean, there's no, not the difference. We own and operate gyms. You're sitting in one of them right now. If our product isn't good, if our marketing, if our everything we're doing isn't good, we're going to know about it because this is our testing grounds right here. And so we are a gym owners for gym owners. And that's a little bit of a difference between where we're trying to go. Do you own NC fit? Yeah. You're the only owner. Yeah. So I own NC fit, and we have some advisory boards,

and we have some other things that are going on inside of it. Is that hard to maintain ownership? Have you been tempted to sell pieces of it? I know you were in a very – this is – It's a barrier. I mean, it's just an invest – everyone's an investor. I'm an investor. You're an investor.

We're all investors. Has anyone tried to – For now, we want to grow at a steady pace that allows us to be comfortable as we grow to maintain quality as soon as we take on outside funding. And everybody should be aware of this. As soon as you take on outside funding from anyone, there's an expectation that comes along with it. And that expectation, regardless of what they say, is to get some type of return on their investment and for the most part, as quickly as possible. And when you do that, there's added stress to grow at the expense of quality we want to take our time specifically with the partner program to grow at an appropriate level so we don't um you don't miss out on quality

that's really important to us so we have not taken on any outside funding does that what you just said what do you think the implications are around CrossFit around that? Because that was one of the things, that was one of the things that Greg was, as the sole owner, was able to do. So these, he could keep, he could be uncorruptible, right? If the affiliate program brought in, let's say, $1 million a year and Coca-Cola told him he was going to give $10 million a year, Greg could say, fuck you, right? Because that wouldn't go with the brand right the brand is we don't eat sugar what how does the new ownership at crossfit with investors this berkshire group how do you have any thoughts on how they're going to mitigate the the damage to

the brand by outside investors. I mean, what is that? I mean, so I'm going to go one step further. People became affiliates based on what Greg told them an affiliate was, right? Let's just, we'll back up. People became an affiliate because they wanted to license the mark of CrossFit. I think it's really important to recognize that Greg never promised something he didn't deliver. That's very important. Greg never promised anything. He said, you're going to license our mark. You're going to get your certifications and that's it. And so for people

who were like distraught saying, Oh, CrossFit doesn't give us anything. They never promised anything either. Right. Right. Now our partner program is different in that sense. We're committing to things we need to deliver them. But with CrossFit, it was all about the mark. So if you saw value in the mark and attaching it to your brand, it added value to your business, license it. If it doesn't add value, don't license it. It's that simple. Where things are with Eric and the Berkshire group, it's a little interesting because I think Eric is a super sharp guy. I've talked to him multiple times on the phone. I think he's going to do incredible things, and I want him to do incredible things. Having outside investors, we'll have to see what happens

because there's definitely going to be a different lens, a different guard in CrossFit as it grows, and people will see it. It'll become more professionalized, more. It'll just change, and there's going to be some people that are going to love it, and there's going to be some people that probably aren't going to like it that much,

and that's up to Eric people that are gonna love it there's gonna be some people that probably aren't gonna like it that much and that's that's up to eric to decide how that navigates when we when crossfit inc took on reebok as a partner uh within a few months they had released a shoe that said that it would could make your butt firmer and greg basically stood up for a week and just said hey fuck you you guys are idiots for doing that that's something that someone with and then that type of integrity, I'll call it integrity, moral high ground, truthfulness, I wonder how that's going to affect the brand now that they can't do that or that I don't think they will do that

because it seems to me that it's a much less offensive CrossFit. Right? It's going out of its way to be less offensive. And where does less offensive compromise the truth? Right? I would say less offensive for CrossFit right now would be a good thing. Yeah. What drove me and CrossFit apart was how offensive the brand was.

How offensive Greg could be. And I think that having less offensive personally to you or to the world, both, right. Personally, it was, we don't need, I mean, that's, that's a whole layer that you and I know about, right. But to the world, absolutely. I mean, it was an issue with the, the, it was an issue with how offensive, um, CrossFit as a brand and Greg were to the outside world. For example, this Reebok situation, you know, if you just signed a new partnership agreement, maybe you could have that on the, on a behind the scenes, you can have those conversations say, Hey man, we don't align with this. This is where we solve it. But going out

there and, and, you know, being negative about a partner, you just sign a deal with probably isn't the best look for everybody. Right. And you know, and there's other situations like that too. And so, yes, I think they're going to be a more toned down CrossFit. Absolutely. Where does that script lines of getting outside investors that impact your, what you say? I don't know. I don't think it's going to be an issue. I think it does need to be toned down though, because it's just been too polarizing for too long right right i just i yeah it's going to be interesting it's going to be really fun to watch yeah it's going to be amazing look i mean there's countless examples of how crossfit did what they want to do and they

reserve all the right to do whatever they want to do but then we as licensed partners need to make our decision if we align with that. Right. It's that simple. Right. And if you don't align, just leave. Right. You know, or don't leave and try to make it better. Well, in my particular case, I tried really hard. You did try very hard. Yeah. Who is the best games coach, the best games coach CrossFit games coach on the planet. If you were

22 year old Jason and you could go to any coach, would you go to Ben Bergeron? Would you go to CJ Martin? Would you go to that guy who does Noah and Travis? Would you go to Shane Toomey? Who would you go to? By the way, that was supposed to be funny because his name is not Shane Toomey. Shane, I mean

look, proof is in the pudding a little bit with Shane. Would you go to Sammy? I mean, well, I mean, I would, I would go back to my roots, right? I'd go back to Austin. I would, I would ask him what his thoughts were and go from there. I mean, for me, I've had a lot of amazing coaches from, would you go to yourself? No, I would, i would identify someone who could really hold me accountable to what i want to get to but i mean you gotta you gotta realize like when it comes to crossfit games when it comes to competing at a high level you gotta have a strong internal why to do that you know i saw your podcast with dave and talking about into the

storm with rich and look is he poking the bear a little bit sure he could he's doing his thing but the reality is that rich needs to have a strong internal why on why he would want to go compete again. And if he doesn't, he knows he won't be as successful because he, he, he, he was so dominant for so long because he had a strong internal reason to do that. But if that no longer is there because he's other priorities in life, wow, he, he, It's not setting him up for success. And so for me, if I went back, I would need to first and foremost know why am I competing

and have a strong reason for that. Because when shit gets really hard, you got to revert back to that internal why. That's the difference between the people who really thrive and the people who do okay. And then I would identify a coach who held me accountable and probably have different ones in different arenas.

Would you move to Cookville? No, I'm not. The 22-year different arenas would you move to cookville no i'm not the 22 year old jason wouldn't move to cookville come on ashley let's go no my wife only wants to stay in the area um what is your relationship like with rich is it good good yeah i mean we've stayed at his house a lot. We used to compete all the time. It was always great. Him and I, we have, you know, my mindset definitely gravitated more towards business. And his does as well. But he also, I mean, dude, he just loves to train. And he's really good at it. I mean, you go to his house, he's just training all the time.

You wonder why Rich is good? It's because he trains hard. He trains a lot. And did you take your kids there also? Yeah. Did they like it? Yeah, multiple times. I mean, it's totally different in cookville compared to this here in the barrio but yeah we brought we brought really different you know they've my son's ridden his little you know atvs all that kind of stuff it's been great jujitsu four years of jujitsu dog i love jujitsu um are you are you are people scared of you oh man you know i don't know i mean you know

when i was first learning jiu-jitsu so i love jiu-jitsu i mean you're really strong when i was first the fact it's not a compliment it's a fact when i was when i was first getting jiu-jitsu um i would really have to be careful because I would have, you, you have to learn how to regulate your strength. And I didn't know how to do that, especially as a white belt. And you could come off very offensive. And now looking back on it, I know how I came off because people come off like that to me. Meaning when you have a white belt, they're scary. If they're strong and they don't know what they're doing, but they're just ripping you around, it's very intimidating. And so you have the higher belts who will want to try and control you because you're just so sporadic

and so strength was definitely a a benefit but i needed to learn how to control it because the more you press out the more your arm is available to get messed up and um did you have you been injured uh in jujitsu? Yeah. I mean, I've been, you know, I mean, punched in the face, this and that, but nothing, you know, outside this normal landscape. And you are a purple belt now. Yeah. And so what are the belts? It's white, gray, white, blue, purple, brown, black for adult kids.

There's a, I believe there's a gray and yellow and orange, if I'm not mistaken. So it's, it's white. You stay there normally for like a year or two blue. You stay there for like, that's the longer one. That's like two, three years. You get some stripes, maybe if your school doesn't, and then you get purple normally there for like a year or two and brown and then black takes a long time. I mean, it's like a journey and there's so much to learn. I mean, Jjitsu is a phenomenal art i learned so much from crossfit i'm so grateful for that we at nc fit right we're rolling out our new training protocols our new coaching platforms i'm so grateful to take our classes here but jiu-jitsu just talk about amrap mentality if you're not amrapping that you're gonna get your ass triangled or armbarred.

It's interesting. I had a friend who's a black belt in taekwondo and she got it when she was young, right? She started when she was seven and she was a black belt when she was 14. And there were these things you had to do. My kid goes to Garth Taylor. Well, first I read on the internet, you couldn't become a black belt. You can't even go past a blue belt if you're under 16, 16 or under. And then I go to Garth Taylorlor jujitsu and it's really it's at garth's whim yeah it's at their disposal yeah and they maintain the integrity of their um belt yep right so there's guys who are there who are just lethal who are brown belts who've been there 11 years and they're just lethal and i just saw them get their brown belt and i'm just like holy shit what do you have to do to get a black belt

there's a few factors in that right you have your lineage so you want to pay homage right you don't want to show up to competitions and like let's just say i gave you a brown belt but you really didn't deserve it you just get your ass kicked instructors don't want that right you gotta earn it it's really important and there's some varying degrees there of course but like you know when you know like you could just you roll with someone and they're either maybe the instructor is sandbagging them a little bit to have them ready for competitions um but for the most part every single belt is earned i mean you can get some of these 16 year olds who just get over their age and man they are just little badasses these guys are flying around you doing all this crazy stuff it's pretty cool cool. It's interesting there because as we're talking

about this, I'm seeing that's something that's really, really focused on brand more than on business, right? Yeah. I mean, you know, there's similarities tons between CrossFit and Jiu-Jitsu. You have a lot of these mom and pop shops who are more hobby driven, who they're struggling right now, especially with COVID. And there should also be some best practices shared within that as well. And you've seen some brands build up, right? Like Atos and Checkmat and Gracie and whatever. Where CrossFit's a little weird is that CrossFit is a brand. It's also a methodology.

is that CrossFit is a brand. It's also a methodology. Whereas Jiu-Jitsu is a methodology, but it's not necessarily a brand. It's open to anybody like yoga or whatnot. And so that's where CrossFit's a little different than any of these because you don't have the right to use the word CrossFit because it's been trademarked unless you license it um and it's becoming more of like a kind of like oh i go do crossfit it's not but it's still kind of a brand whereas jujitsu anybody can use jujitsu it's just a well-known thing like yoga you can have different brands from within it and i wonder if that's where cross will go in the future but probably not yeah probably not i don't think they'd like that they protect the brand a lot. I don't think. They'd protect the brand a lot. There was a sponsorship.

So you opened a bunch of corporate gyms with HGST. Originally HGST, which then got acquired by Western Digital. And I remember there was a competition there and it was a big sponsor. And basically you introduced the CEO there to Dave, right? And they gave an enormous sponsorship. And not only did they give an enormous sponsorship, but they gave a massive hard drive,

basically a million-dollar hard drive, to our media department. Yep. A PETA drive. It was the president of Western Digital. We connected them, and they created a relationship. Yeah, we brought that sponsorship to them. Yeah.

And then... and they create a relationship and um yeah we brought that sponsorship to them yeah and then from my personal perspective from from what from that time i went to that competition i forget his name what was his name uh well there was mike and mike there was a variety of okay right and when i say i should backtrack when i say we brought that sponsorship to them they crossfit earned the sponsorship because of what they are doing i simply connected the dots right i don't want to i want to be really careful about that because it wasn't like you know i didn't sponsor it you know i just connected the guys was that sponsorship in your opinion if you feel comfortable talking about lost because of disrespect oh yeah because 100 okay because from where i where i said i felt that's that's what i felt i felt like oh my god we lost this sponsor that we didn't have to lose yeah and it was really tough on me and that's why you know um

a lot of people if they basically you vouch for crossfit you vouched you brought one of your homies in who had deep pockets he sponsored the games and then he was disrespected it didn't go as planned okay yeah and these are examples of things that were just really challenging you know and uh we tried really hard tried really really hard but at the time it was it was very very difficult to have relationship between the two of them and there was a lot of um uh disrespect a lot of challenges that occurred so yeah it's really sad it's really sad what happened on that one because it didn't have to be that way no and it wasn't um yeah there's a difference between um let's say there is respect on one side and

disrespect on the other like i i don't usually deal in the currency of respect or disrespect. I don't think you do too strongly either. But because there's like, it's not about getting respect or disrespect. For me, it's about getting what I want. I just need to hit my target. There was a deal and a contract and it wasn't upheld in some way, shape or form.

And then there wasn't communication around it either. Of course not. Yeah. But it is it is um it is telling people can only take so much disrespect people will only allow so much dirt to be kicked on them yeah and how and how was that hard on you well i mean there's been a lot of situations with crossfit that have been really tough on me because as i told you before you started talking like i eat eat, breathe, sleep.

I mean, shit, there was a time where if I was in the right state of mind, I have no tattoos. Probably would have done that as a tattoo, right? And then to have time after time after time really trying and had this happen was very, very difficult, especially in this particular situation because it just didn't have to be that way. It didn't. It could have just so easily

have been different if it was just a little bit a shift in in the mindset maybe even a 10-minute conversation maybe even a five well we agree on that that did not have to go that way it did not from from where we sit what do you matt fraser and rich froning have in common like we all want to cross the games i mean in terms of your um i'll throw discipline um understanding of hard work um genetics um ability to work through pain is there anything like when you see matt you're like oh i know what he's going through or i see rich or do they do the same to you? Oh, I know what Jason. I mean, I know you guys were talking about with Dave, like an archetype for the, you know, top CrossFit people. You know, I think it's somewhere between that five,

seven to five, nine, five, 10 for men, you know, anywhere from 185 to 200, probably pounds. anywhere from 185 to 200, probably pounds. And that plate, it carries well in these different events. So that is kind of similar between us. Um, the mindset of having a strong reason to train and to push yourself, I think is the, is the key, right? It's really being able to fall back on something that's meaningful to you of why you're going to go put yourself out there to train hard, to go and, and get ready for the crossfit games you got to have that deep internal like just drive and i think obviously they both have that matt has um has some past i don't know what his past is but he has some past i don't know if it was alcoholism or drugs or something but he's got some past he's got the serenity prayer

on him i've asked him about it he has has something that caused him to do some massive shift. Rich has these deaths in his family of his two... Cousins, right? Yeah, best friends of his life. Dudes he was with every single day, wrestling and snapping underwear with, and they die. And I feel like both of those incidents drive whatever happened in their lives has driven them.

Like it's some pathology, some fire that they sit on. I never hear that. No, I mean, I think that, you know, with... From you. I never hear like, okay, yeah, this happened to Jason. And so he's like, that's his pent up fire. No, I mean, I guess the best way to describe that wouldn't be like a specific thing like that. But in high school, you know, I was definitely the class clown kind of just had a lot of fun get to

college and you just realize like no one owes you anything and they're not going to hold your hand and you got to put in the work if you want to get to where you want to be was there a specific incident that happened that like some teacher called you a dumb shit or a girl's like hey i'm breaking up with you because you're never going to go anywhere. No, it was a combination of things. I mean, my high school graduation, the principal at graduation basically compared my brain to that at the time of a movie called The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. Do you remember that movie? Yeah, yeah. James Carey. Yeah, yeah, Jim Carey.

Like, it was literally in front of the entire school, in front of my parents. He basically just called me out on that and basically said, Oh, I'm not talking about Jason Kleepa's brain. It was just, it was very belittling and very, um, that was a moment where I was like, Oh, okay. That kind of sucked, you know, cause like my grandma's there and, uh, you know, whatever, we brush that off and then we get to kind of get to college. And at that point, I didn't get into the college I want to get into. I went to a junior college and it was really awakening for me. Like I get in there first day of class and just no one's there to hold your hand. No one cares about you. Like you either own it and work your ass off or, or you're going to be

left behind. And so those were life situations, you know, that, that impacted me in the gym and out of the gym. Right. It was just those epiphanies that like, Hey, there was a time in my life where there was always someone there kind of like pushing me forward but now if i want something i need to go get it for myself and training and working out hard was always kind of a part of what i did i used to race bmx bikes for a long time and i knew that if i wanted to be competitive i needed to train hard for it but it wasn't until i got to like college and met austin it was surrounded by the gym i realized just how much like working out was a big part of my life and then it transferred into CrossFit it's interesting it's um it's an asshole thing to say especially at your graduation in

front of everyone and then on the other hand it's a gift yeah or it's like I mean I'll give you another gift you know I'm sitting next to this girl I write this in my book you know I'm sitting next to this girl I'm in West Valley College and it's like oh I'm, I'll give you another gift. You know, I'm sitting next to this girl. I write this in my book. You know, I'm sitting next to this girl. I'm in West Valley College. And it's like, oh, I'm Betsy. I've been here two years. I'm John. I've been here four years. I'm whatever.

And this girl right next to me, she's like, my name is Pam. This is my seventh year here. And I'll never forget that because that was a really telling time that this is a two-year JC. I mean, you're supposed to get in and out. And this woman had been there for seven years. And that's fine that that was her path. But I didn't want that to be my path. Right. Right. Right. It's one of those moments where I had to wake up and kind of get, take my own,

take responsibility for my own actions, me slacking off throughout high school. I needed to make up time. And so that was just an example of hard work and then it carried itself well. I was an undergrad for seven years. I was an undergrad for seven years. I did two years at JC and then... Five more? You were... Oh, yeah. Yeah, five more at a four-year college.

So you finished in seven. Yeah, I didn't finish. I didn't finish. No. I went to UC Santa Barbara for five years until my mom cut me off. I was one of those people who tried. I was one of those people who tried. I was one of those people who tried.

It just wasn't my thing. No, it wasn't my thing. But I tried, and I really enjoyed it. If you had to go back, would you have stopped earlier? No. No, no, no. Greatest years since I had kids. Now that I have kids, these are the greatest years of my life,

but those were the greatest years. Yeah, that was good. Can you teach hard work? And if so, how are you going to teach that to your kids? You could show hard work and through exercise. You know, it's interesting because in life. And see fit. Well.

That was a commercial I just saw. Oh, yeah. You can teach hard work you can show hard work or through exercise bring your kids saturday but but think about like this right you you know when i was growing up my dad was an engineer when he was working hard he was outside the house on his computer doing whatever he was doing building machines right i knew dad was working with our kids a little bit different because they could physically see like this morning in the garage. I use that

as an example. Again, I mean, my son and I, we went at it. I mean, we wrestle, we crushed a workout together. He doesn't, I could tell him all I want that I'm working hard, but to actually see physically me competing or me training, it carries over for them because they can equate that hard work with actual what it is. And then they can build on from that. Say, hey, this same mentality where we're really working hard, you're grinding. You could take that into other areas of your life. Whereas if you don't exercise, it's a little bit tougher to show kids. Because it's one thing to be on a computer like, hey, Ava, I'm working really hard right now.

It's another thing to be in the garage with her doing burpees. And she sees the effort you're putting in, and then that transfers into other areas. Well, somehow you learned it from your dad. Do you think it's cultural? Do you think it's because you're Iranian that, like, are all Iranians hardworking? I mean, not all. You know, I'm being hyperbole. Yeah, I mean, you know, there's a lot of people that came to Iran during the revolution that came here with nothing you know i mean my grandfather came to this country with two hundred dollars in his shoe that he had drilled out

and started a dry cleaning business whereas in iran he was super rich he worked for the oil company there and the shah and the humane and the revolution occurred and here he comes with nothing and that's an interesting perspective when you're at a young age to, to go in and watch your seven, you know, at that point, they're probably like six, 70, you know, grinding it in the dry cleaners. Um, maybe that has something to do with it. And do you remember thinking about your, as a child being like, Oh man, my dad works hard. No, no. Or you're, Oh man, my mom works hard. Your mom's a little bit of an overachiever too, right? She's super sweet.

They're both amazing humans. Was your mom the president of the college? No, she works at the same university. She works in the arts and science department. I've been blessed with amazing parents and family, but I don't know if hard work...I don't know. I don't know where it all, I think it just stems from this idea of you want to go get something, you have to put in the work to get

there. I mean, if you really, if anybody really thinks about it, they're not going to be given anything in life. And if they want something, you need to work. That epiphany occurred to me in college and I'm grateful for it. For me, I don't really know what I want, but I just hard do you know what I mean I feel like more like Forrest Gump than like like there's these people they're like I have this vision and it's over here and I'm charging towards it for me it's like I see the movie Forrest Gump and he just starts running I'm like yeah you know what I mean I'm just like yeah that sounds cool I'm just gonna I'm just gonna put my head down and run off in that direction hey at least you're running somewhere right who. Right. Who knows where it's at, but at least you've been after it. I wish you'd say something more consoling to me.

Well, at least for me, I have a vision of where we want to build NC Fit. I have a vision of what that looks like to me, and I want to get the best team around me to accomplish that goal. For you, if you're on your journey, you create your own path, man. And the thing is, I'm not here to tell you what your path is. You figure it out on your own. i have that vision i guess when i mean good good i'm glad you said i have that vision i know what i'm i know what i want to i know what i want to build but but but it's not for a reason i guess by that is i don't do it to

become rich i don't do it to leave legacy i don't do it to show my kids hard work i guess like i guess that's what i mean by that for the reason yeah like do you have a reason yeah i think for me it's bigger than that for me i want to build a network of gyms that the owners can live off of that the coaches can thrive through the members get impacted on and we can go do really cool shit for the greater community. The bigger this network becomes, this movement that was built here in NorCal and grown worldwide, the more owners we can have that are being supported, the more coaches that get supported, the more members that get impacted. And then with that network, let's just say it builds to whatever, you can go do some really cool stuff, philanthropic efforts, blood drives,

you name it. that's the big vision of where i want to go is when you have a big big boulder that's moving and you could grow it and then go do cool stuff with it that's exciting to me i try never to i i really try never to let my kids see me be lazy either yeah by that i mean i would never walk through the house and see something on the ground and not pick it up. Yeah. I let them see me like hold the highest, highest standard. Yeah. And there's a lot of pressure there because you're, you're, you're, you're making, you're having a profound impact on human beings. Right. And the way that you treat them, the way you treat others in front of them plays a huge role in how they act. And you know, that's, yeah, that's a, it's a, there's a lot to

undertake, you know, at working at the front that's a, it's a, there's a lot to undertake, you know, at working at the front desk at a health club really, really resonated that for me, you know, when I was really young, I had this gentleman, his name is Joe Gigantino, who was the owner of the location. And he really took me under his wing and taught me about sales and marketing ownership. But, you know, if you want to be an owner, you have to act like an owner was always his mentality. And so when you watch him go through the bathroom, he'd clean it up himself. And those are really important things that I learned because, um, if you want to be an owner you have to act like an owner was always his mentality and so when you watch him go through the bathroom he'd clean it up himself and those are really important things that i

learned because um if you want to be an owner one day which i did i needed to start acting like it earlier on yeah oh look more pages I'm waiting for some more. I don't know. You never know what you're going to get into. You mentioned that basically it was clear to you for why you were going to retire, basically. You pulled away from the games. Your daughter got sick with leukemia.

And it was like, hey, I've refocus no brainer and then and then you see um and so and so you get a pass you don't get people who are critical but but you were in the limelight and on some level it would have been fair if someone maybe would have been critical critical is not the right word what am i looking for would have um discussed it, debated it, because you're in the limelight. You see people, like when I did the podcast with Dave, and I think a lot of us really wanted to see Rich compete for just selfish reasons. Forget about Rich. We just like Rich.

We just want to see him go against Matt. Do you think that that criticism is fair, or it's fun to talk about, or do you think it's offensive? Because some of the people write, hey, fuck you, Dave. Rich did his part. I'm like, wow like wow man you're taking this a little seriously yeah i mean there's definitely always people on the internet that like to be super aggressive because that's and that's the challenge with social media these days right good collaborative conversation just doesn't really exist on social media it's always like who could get the best sound bite to create the best

action and um what with the for, when I exited the sport, you know, I don't know if there was anybody who really could question it because at that point, I mean, I was living in the hospital. I mean, I spent months in the hospital. What the hell do you want me to do? Go train. I mean, I competed in the, um, 2016 open for like one event or no, maybe it was a step, whatever it was. And I realized like, what am I doing? Like I I've been spending months in the hospital. The last thing on my mind was going and competing in a fitness competition. It just was that simple. And I think a lot of people related to that. And if it was the other way around for anybody else listening, they probably would have done the same thing. I hope they would have done the same thing because the amount of

commitment that you need to win the CrossFit games is so extreme. But we were in the biggest fight of our life, which was getting my daughter well. So like you only have so much energy. What am I going to do? Put into a sport or put into getting my daughter cured? You're just, you're just in a state of being terrified. She's going to die. Of course. That's it. That's it. Well, you're in, you're in a state of not terrified that she's going to die. You're in a state of putting yourself in the best position for success that she doesn't die. Right? And that means educating yourself. I mean, I'm talking long nights of obsession.

Obsession with the cure. Obsession with being her biggest advocate was all I cared about. And my family. I mean, and again, if it was the other way around for most people, they'd be the same way because you have to be your child's biggest advocate and educate yourself. I mean, can you give me an example of what that looks like? It's gnarly. I mean, like you're, you, you start up and you read the way your first thing is, is they tell you your daughter has leukemia. So you go home and you just start digging in the internet. You're in

the hospital. That's it. That's it. I mean, dude, dude it's it's fucking it's as heavy as you can get i mean at least for me right and again everybody comes with different backgrounds and that's why you know for you maybe the worst that's happened was whatever but each person has a different gauge on what's really hard in their life because of their past experiences i don't wish anybody the experience that we had but the night that we found out Ava had leukemia was crushing. The first time that she was put to sleep was debilitating. And the first visit to the ICU was incomprehensible. These were just moments in my life that you feel your whole body just crumble.

And you're just pushing it all down so that she doesn't see it oh yeah i mean except for the first night the first night was tough i mean it's all tough you know so the what happened with i don't know how much you want to go into this but for a couple of months we saw some issues right for months we tried everything i went to we tried everything and what really made us realize there was an issue we need to get blood work done was um bruising so there was a leg pain she couldn't walk it was a bunch of stuff and there was a few signs and so we took her to the doctors and no one had done blood work it was really interesting because the the symptoms didn't describe that you needed to so then we get to um

one point where she's bruising and that's where the doctors need to go do blood work. And I'll never forget the call. So earlier that day, where is she bruising? Tell me what that is. So the symptoms were fatigue, leg pain, and in this particular case, bruising. So the fatigue was weird. She'd fall asleep at school. It's like, what the fuck? Right. Then she, she couldn't walk more than 400 feet not even that 100 feet at my sister's wedding in october she was diagnosed in january at my sister's wedding october she couldn't walk down the aisle and she tripped and fell that's how bad it was right and i'm just sitting there and just we took her to doctor doctor doctor so long story short she gets

a she starts bruising on her legs so that's when the doctor's like huh so they thought she was i need they didn't know so they go and do blood work and then that night we had a call from the doctor and i remember the dinner had just been served i mean our meals were just on the table he said hey you need to take ava to the er right now like stanford er right now and the doctor said i'll call you back you need to get on the road and i'll call you back while you're on the road and so we left the food as is just we left the table we got in the car we left to the hospital and we left my son with my mother-in-law at the time so it's me ashley ava and we got in the car and just drove and we left the dinner there and we ended up coming back like

two weeks later the dinner was still the refrigerators it was fun and you're tripping two weeks later yeah we were uh maybe at that point that was an exaggeration a week later a week later you literally well holy shit and then and well then you come home we came home for two days and we were in the hospital for a month and then you come home for two days you're in the hospital for a month it was whatever um but yeah you get to the hospital and you know at that point it's kind of starts kicking in a little bit and you're like what's the issue so you get to the hospital and, you know, at that point, it's kind of starts kicking in a little bit and you're like, Oh, that's an issue. So you talk to the doctor and you're thinking like, Oh, maybe it's some, you know, maybe she has like an allergy to something.

You're kind of like creating this narrative in your head. Right. Right. And then you get in there and they're like, Hey, we need to put you in a special room. And we need to do this. And then all of a sudden it was like 2am, 2am after they did blood cultures and whatnot, they, they came to us and the woman said hey can i take you outside and she took me outside and she told me the bad news and and i walked back in and we pulled ashley out and i told her her father was there

actually at that point it was heavy super super heavy but ashley stepped up as per usual and she she held down the fort that's for damn sure so she had a really strong position throughout the entire thing and um do you get cured from leukemia yeah so five years so she got diagnosed in 2016 she had treatment for three years a lot of steroids a lot of chemo a lot of stuff then uh she's been out of treatment now. So what is that? Three years, 2019. She's bad treatment. Now she just passed. Like she's like two and a half years out of treatment.

She has two and a half more years and you're technically cured. And what is her, does she know? Oh yeah. And how does she talk about it? Um, is it light to her? Is it heavy to her?

It kind of goes in spurts. So like for a while, it wasn't that big of a deal. Cause she didn't understand the gravity cause she was diagnosed at four. Right. And so she didn't understand the gravity because she was diagnosed at four right and so she didn't understand the gravity now she kind of gets a little bit more because the way people talk about like oh cancer oh leukemia it's like no one ever says like leukemia or cancer like oh you know nobody you know so she sees the way people talk about it and she knows that whatever she had was severe um but at the time she didn't

realize it like the scariest moments was when she was you know taken away to the icu for an emergency and she had no idea what was going on you know she's she couldn't comprehend it right how is it and how does caden process it caden we're super blessed right like if someone was going to get it it was going to be our family and we had my mom and dad they took they took him for probably months and they took him for months and so because we were so he bonded with grandma and grandpa oh yeah so he still goes over there every weekend and he he had a lot that's nice yeah but like but like for us like we had to really prioritize ava and her health and as much as we obviously you know loved hanging out with Caden and everything, it just wasn't the right time.

So they would come to the hospital. But the thing about your inpatient, out-of-patient, inpatient, out-of-patient, you never know. And you don't know how long you're going to be there for. And it's very challenging. Are you relieved? When? Is it gone?

I know you said it has to be five years before you're like but personally you're are you do you think about it every day or are you really no because you can see it so every month every day i look at her and i think and i just see and i can tell if there's an issue because energy will be down you'll have different issues and so thank god you know the last so what happens is after you finish treatment you go in for blood work every month and then it goes every two months. Then it goes every three months. Then it goes every six months. So we're in like the two month or three month phase now.

And so you could just see it. If we started seeing certain signs, I'd be very concerned. But you feel good. I feel good. The pictures I see on Instagram, she looks the best she's ever looked. Yeah. She's, she's, she's, she's doing, she's thriving. And she has, you know, she wants to be a doctor

and this, this experience has really impacted her life in a profound way because she, you also see like, I mean, the healthcare professionals, I mean, I can't speak highly enough about, right. I mean, they saved our daughter's life multiple times. So that's impacted her for her future also. No, uh, meaning what do you mean by that? She wants to be a doctor. Oh, right, right, right. Actually I saw that on her sign. Yeah. She wants to be a doctor. Oh, right, right, right. Actually, I saw that on her sign. Yeah, she wants to be a doctor. Yeah. Yeah.

So, you know, for me, it's, yeah, her diagnosis was the worst thing that ever happened to our family. But coming out of it was a lot of positives. I mean, our family got closer. It changed my perspective on everything. I became more compassionate. I became more understanding. Because, you know, when you're in the hospital and you're struggling with the way we were, I mean like within the first week, I mean, I was just, I was just broken, you know, crying all the time. And I was, I was like getting coffee one time and I was like crying. The guy could tell

I'd been crying. Right. He was like, Hey, just put his arm around me. He's like, Hey, it'll be because everybody there kind of comes from the same, especially like the oncology department. because everybody there kind of comes from the same, especially like the oncology department, everybody's in like some shit. Oh, right, right. No one's in the oncology, like, you know. With a broken arm. Yeah, no one's there with a broken arm.

So everybody in the oncology is kind of like in these long, heavy, drawn-out situations, and so there's a lot of compassion there, and so you see that good side of humanity too. Did you, was it hard sharing that on social media? How do you decide whether to share that or not is your camera still working yes sir can't you you can never be too sure here's the thing about social media so with us we shared what we found to be the most appropriate version

of our journey meaning you know if you look at some ashley stuff or my stuff, if you look at it, it's not like doom and gloom. It's just real. And it's every so often. But also just trying to let people know what was going on, right? Because you send this shockwave. And you want to provide some insight. But you also want to provide some perspective for people. You don't want to be the victim. You don't want to be, I don't need your pity.

Like, that's not what I'm looking for. But I wanted to share with you my perspective. That at Valentine's Day, this is what my cheese plate looked like with my wife in the hospital, or this is the night that I'm spending in the hospital and ICU with my, with my wife and daughter. And, uh, you know, but trying to put some light on it. Like, I remember this one post I put up, it was like one of the darkest nights of my life. And I was like, Hey, you know, it's not the four seasons, but it comes with free, uh, uh, uh, room service, right? Like, or whatever, you know, like, but trying to give some, some light at the end of the tunnel,

um, and sharing that story a little bit. And then, and then as the process went on, right. Um, sharing some of that too, you know, as she lost her hair, as she did this sharing, but always trying to do it in a positive manner so what i think breast cancer in particular has done a really great job of this is that they've made it pediatric cancer is so dark it's such a dark subject right but if we could find a way to to to talk through it maybe we can get some more fundraising maybe maybe people like it's like when you're watching tv and you see like those dogs that are just like you know in shelters whatever it's it's so like horrific that you just change the channel. I don't want people to change the channel. I want people to know like, Hey, this pediatric cancer thing is there, but let's talk about it in a constructive manner. And instead of like being so overly grotesque about it, like I'm not going to show you the

videos or whatever of, I'm not, I'm going to, I'm going to try and censor it to be something that people can actually consume instead of just being so horrified by it they just don't watch right right i've seen i've seen it's funny you say that i've seen billboards of ads of kids who have i don't know what it's called like they have that okay and i'm just like hey that they're it makes me want to look away instead of draw my attention yeah exactly so yeah through the nose you would think it would be like oxygen. It's actually, it's a feeding tube. Wow. And yeah, that's a great example though. Going back to social media, when, I view social media as a publishing platform, as a cheap and easy publishing platform, and it's a place to curate and gather um people to watch my content i just love making content i can't stop making content i've done it for 20 years and so i find

social media i don't use it to scroll okay because if i use it to scroll you're spending much time yeah i spend too much time on it and i'm not to that. It's just I don't want to do that. Yeah. Do you have a... I would never take my phone to bed and scroll with all the lights off. I just can't. I would... I find it as... I guess it's my ego. I would find it as like I've succumbed.

Yeah, like a waste of time. Or even beyond. It's like really just an ego thing. Like I would never want to be... I feel like it's weak really just an ego thing like i would never want to be i feel like it's it's weak to sit in bed and scroll i think everybody needs to identify what their relationship with social media looks like and find out what that is for you do and we'll go let's go back then why do they need to identify it because it's that much of a powerful force in the world

if you watch the recent documentary i haven't seen it i'm scared yeah i mean it's it's it's really interesting because what happens it's it's really interesting because what happens is and this is really interesting about social media especially with ads and stuff is that they take your viewpoint and they start to just adjust it just a little bit more towards the extreme ends because what they do is they look at the information you consume and then they feed you with more of that information so you stay on the platform right but what ends up happening is then you have voice and the other content that maybe, maybe it could have opened your eyes to a different perspective. Right. And political, non-political, whatever. And so social media is

a really, it's a very powerful, beautiful tool. It connects people. It's built brands. It's helped build our brand. There's a lot of good behind it, but people need to recognize what is that relationship? You know, know um if someone's coming at you like even on this like you're gonna put let's just say it's on youtube right people are gonna be sitting there commenting oh jason this whatever it's it's it's really it's really difficult it's difficult because you see these comments and they impact you but these people don't know you right social media they don't know you they don't know who you are they're judging you based off whatever and it's so easy to be so negative on social media and it could take over your life.

And so that's why you need to understand how do you compartmentalize that where I'm going to put out content and there's going to be a lot of people are going to see value in it. And there's going to be other people that don't. And if they're going to come out and hate, I have to be okay with that. And that's been very difficult for me to, um, you know, over time come to, I mean your own personal use, how do you, that, that, that's valid. Um, that's a good problem to have. That means that there's a lot of people watching your content, but, um, but what about your own personal use? How do you make sure that you're not on social media too much? And you have a lot to manage on social media. Or are you on it too much? No, I think it's just a relationship thing. I mean,

I think obviously you can look on your phone and see how many hours you're spending on this, but I think that social media is a tool. It's a tool for me to provide value to people. And that's what it is. And it's same with YouTube, same with whatever I'm, I'm trying to provide value, which in return, hopefully builds an audience that, that looks at me as a credible source. And maybe it helps us in the business, or maybe there's, you're just impacting people's lives. That's it. And as soon as it becomes more than that to me, where it's drawing me down, then I'm on social media too too much and so you just got to play that happy dance when i was in high school i had a pager oh yeah and one of my friends was paging me and i didn't call him back and he i finally i ran into him at a party or somebody goes dude i paged

you i go yeah i know because why didn't you call me back i'm like dude the pager is for me to know you want to get in touch with me then i have the decision i want to call you back it's not a fucking dog whistle and my mom taught me that with the phone like be watching tv remember when the phones used to hang on the wall and then we'd be watching tv in the family room and the phone would ring and my sister and i would jump up she goes do you guys want to answer and be like no well then don't right it's like it's like fuck you that that phone is for you you put that phone in your house i don't know but but that phone is for um my my social media is for me it's not for people to it should be a positive force in my life it should be a positive i should not be like hey

i'm looking at this stuff to feel bad about myself or to knee jerk me to buy this product i don't need. It's like, wow. Well, that's where it becomes a really slippery slope. Yeah. And if you watch the social dilemma, that's where they start diving into this, where it becomes an addictive. And I think people are becoming more aware of it. And we've got to continue to be more aware of it because it could start to.

Same with the news. So I was talking to my mother-in-law and she was consuming four five six hours of news and again i want to preface this by saying this non-political statement if you're consuming six hours of news she told me it was creating a lot of anxiety yes a lot of she was getting in a state of depression from watching it was her choice but it becomes addicting right like a soap opera it's like a soap opera and so she had to put her own guidelines on of what that looked like for her and that's similar to the way we try and do for social media same idea your your wife

has a pretty slow cadence of publishing yeah my wife just kind of does whatever she wants whenever she like she's pretty low-key um that's a whole battery so i think we're good is the video done no it's still going but i said when i looked last time there was 10 left oh really i mean i have more batteries but i think this is a good chunk for us to start on whatever you want i mean do you close it out or anything no no we don't start it we don't close it out is there anything you want to say? Is there anything, any loose ends? No. One day we've got to dive into all the random

Team USA events. No. There's always going to be more time to discuss different things. I mean, I'm good with whatever. It's your thing. Good. Thank you. It's been a um this is going to come out wrong but i'm going to say anyway there were people i went to i went to

school with from like kindergarten to high school and i just knew them they were just in my sphere for like 12 15 years right yeah and whether i had good thoughts or bad thoughts about them time would pass and i would be like holy shit that person's like more family to me than fucking anyone. And they'll never know it. And I never told them. And so basically, we've had this relationship. We've been spinning in the same sphere for 12 or 15 years. A long time.

Yeah. And so it's just nice. This is probably in 10 years the most we've talked and uh it's just nice and thanks for having me you could have just been like fuck you you got fired i'm done with you no no no dude i don't care if you got fired this and that i mean but that's that's the thing man it's like i'm not going to talk to you or not talk to you because i want something from you there's nothing i want from you i just wanted to have a conversation about because you want to have a conversation yeah Yeah. Cause I reached out. Yeah. And you don't work for HQ and that's fine with me.

Yeah. It's that's, that's hopefully that says something about the way people should be, right? It's just, it doesn't matter. You know, if someone has something you want and they're, you're being extra nice to them, that's fine, but you should always be nice to people and always have conversations because there's nothing I want from you I just want to have a conversation and and Although media was my department not affiliates, but I'm almost embarrassed to say that it took me Wanting to interview you to go to your site and comb through and see what profound offerings you were offering the community So yeah, look that only rolled out a couple of months ago because, you know, we essentially what happened was everything happened with CrossFit and Greg, and we started

having an overwhelming demand for us to go out there and do something like this. And so we, it, it sped up the process that was already in place, but you don't, and like I said to you, man, I'm not, I'm not overly joyful on i said to you man i'm not i'm not overly joyful on how everything went down i'm not right but it went down the way it did and that's that's