The Sevan Podcast - #185 - Chris Masterjohn

Episode Date: October 27, 2021

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Let me ask you the same thing. How's my sound? Sounds good. I stepped into my office pretty early this morning and i'm in california and man it's getting cold i'm like layered up jack yeah it's it's starting to get cold in new york too yeah i'm just like new york will not comply god i hope you're right oh man i hope you're right. I can't emphasize enough, people. There's three places you don't want your life to get entangled with. The legal system, the prison system, and the hospital system. At all costs. That's pretty fair, yeah.

At all costs, don't avoid going to court. Don't get in a fight with your wife. Don't sue your neighbor. At all costs, take't avoid going to court. Don't get in a fight with your wife. Don't sue your neighbor. At all costs, take care of your health. And that's why we have Chris on this morning. You have to take care of your health. Unless you get hit by a car or shot, like, you do not want to be going to the hospital. Really, really, really, really need to take care of yourself.

I know I'm preaching to the choir. Most of you guys are on that journey chris dude your name is that your real name chris master john that's my real name yeah man you have good parents well it came from uh actually it was a dude on ellis island when my great-grandfather immigrated from Nisiros, a Greek island. And they said, what's your name? And he said, Ioannis Mastroiannis. And they said, guy turned to a Greek guy behind him and said, what does that mean? They said, it means John Mastrojan. And they said, your name is John Mastrojan now. Was that an accurate translation?

Yeah. Well, actually, I'm leaving some details out. So actually, they said it was John Mastrojohn. And then there was an error on my grandfather's birth certificate that said John Mastrojohn. And then he didn't know about it until he got married. And he looked at it and he was like, why is my name spelled different than my brother's? And he was like, I might as well flip these two letters around. It makes more sense. Just call it Masterjohn. So actually, Masterjohn is actually the lineage that comes from my

grant my grandfather all his brothers were mastro john which is sort of uh it's kind of like a transliteration of it because it's must throw yanis and yanis is john um but master john is sort of a good translation of it, I guess. And shit, since we're here, what were they a master of in the old country? Probably everything. I don't know. Chris, guys, well, I'm seeing the comments pouring. It looks like you guys know who he is.

Yes, he's a phd in nutritional science what's interesting is as i dug through his instagram and i went back all the way to i don't know 2014 to his first post it's crazy how many touch points um you and i have that are very very similar and i had no idea up until one year more what's happening to kind of your life i don don't think you meant to be an activist, but somehow you've been pulled off of everyone. I predicted that three months ago. You've been pulled off of your path and you're still holding onto your path. I mean, and it's, it's God, it's, it's so crazy relevant because we need people talking about health right now more than ever um so they don't get sucked into the system but um you uh i saw that you know david asario or at least you went to his gym crossfit south uh oh when i lived in brooklyn pretty much my whole life in brooklyn

when i was there was uh i was at crossfit south brooklyn yeah yeah that's crazy um i was in a i only moved out of brooklyn because i had an indoor mold problem. I probably would have, uh, you know, if I, if things had gone a little bit differently, I might still be there, but yeah, that's a crazy story. Although I'm not allowed in gyms in New York anyway at all, but right now because of your injection status. Yeah. Yeah. I actually have a, I actually have a squat rack uh that i bought right next to me when i found out that the gym down on my block well two blocks from me um it was complying with the mandate i was like oh i know where this is going so i just bought a squat rack had half my home gym set up within a few days uh which is fine because now I went to my sports medicine

doctor going to some problems with my neck. And he said, what kind of shoes do you wear when you squat? And I said, well, just recently, I didn't tell him why, but I said, just recently, I started squatting barefoot. And he was like, oh, that's great for proprioception. So now I'm like, you know, so now I just now i start i started posting my workouts on instagram and it's like now i'm squatting barefoot in my boxers thanks de blasio um how how now we're way off subject how happy are you if you're working out barefoot now i almost do all my workouts except rope climbs yeah i mean it's cool that i'm working out now. I almost do all my workouts except rope climbs. Yeah. I mean, it's cool that I'm working out barefoot, but there's a, there's kind of a justice issue here because 40% of people in my

zip code are not allowed in the gym. And even, even people that can afford to just be like, Oh, I'll buy a squat rack today. Uh, most people in New York city, even if they can afford it, don't have room for it. Right. Because space comes at a premium. I just happened to be in a living situation where I was doing one thing in my office and out of necessity, I could turn it in a slightly different direction because I needed that space otherwise. And so it worked out for me. And so I guess in this case, I'm lucky how adaptable I am and it pushed me in the direction that is actually better for me. I'm also happy that I can do more work now between

sets because I have my office desk right here with my computer, which is way easier to get a lot of things done on than trying to do it on my phone in the gym. So I mean, it's really, honestly, it's a net net win for me. You know, I can't fit all the same equipment here, but I got the necessities. You know, but it's, I'm just, I've carved out that privilege for myself. And most people in New York don't have it so i i i i first of all before i talk about that word privilege uh did i i fixed your um name at the bottom is that your instagram account people are asking what's your instagram account is it chris master john it's i'm chris master john on everything so chris master john on instagram and And you have to type it in now. It used to be that if you started typing my name in, they would suggest it.

But I tried to tag you yesterday. They're very close to deplatforming me. I tried to tag you yesterday. Instagram's like, no, no, no. You can't tag this guy. All that was very recent. They started getting very aggressive the day that they came back from the September 27th shutdown.

They, you know, it, you, they were very sloppy with their trying to suppress free speech. Now, now it's, they're still sloppy with it,

but they're, they're much more aggressive with it. So I've been, I've been heavily shadow banned now for, I want to say almost a year. I can't believe that they don't. Oh yeah. I followed you this morning. I, and, and I, and it, with it so i've been i've been heavily shadow banned now for i want to say almost a year i can't believe that they don't oh yeah i followed you this morning i and and i and it also said are you sure you want to follow this guy whatever and whatever it asks me if i'm sure i want to

follow him i'm like yeah that's the sign that i'm following the right person yeah someone in the comments said okay i just started following him he's's super shadowbanned. Wadzombie, do I have his Instagram right? I have at Chris Masterjohn, all one word. Yeah, that's right. Unless there's a spelling error in Masterjohn, then that's got to be right. Okay. Chris, how old are you? I'm 39.

Oh, wow. You look young. Do you have kids? No. It's a trip to me. Fuck, podcast is so off course it's a trip to me that um that you are so um outspoken and interested um just sort of the injustices going on and and all the the confusion going on when i don't think i would be if i didn't have kids i'd be like fuck it i'd just be like capitalizing on this shit but I have kids and I can't and I and I have to like sort of be looking

into the future what's your motivation why do you feel obligated to speak if you had you don't live in New York do you no I live in California but I have kids if you had kids you'd be thinking about two months from now because as soon as we have the next mayor you're not going to be allowed to go to school unless you got the injection well it's like that here in California already. Oh, is it? Yeah. We already got that. Think about the present.

Yeah. I knew my kids wouldn't go to school when the school has Black Lives Matter and LGBTQ flags out front. I've spoken about this ad nauseum, but i grew up in san francisco loved the gay pride parade went to it all the time partied there fucking no one knows how to party better but that flag is not about equality the american flag is about equality that flag is about um whose genitalia you like in relationship to your own genitalia and i'm totally cool with that like but uh but that has no place that's a sex flag. Gay is a reference to who you want to mate with. And it has no place in front of a kindergarten or school.

None, none, none, none, none, none. And it's put it on your garage. I love it. I'll honk when I go by and go, yeah, I get that. Yeah. I think there's right now it is like peak anger over the school system. So I think it's right time for teachers, parents and kids to leave the school system and,

and write a declaration of educational independence and say, screw the DOE. We're doing our own thing. And if you can afford it, get your kid in Kumon. That's what I'm doing. And the, the results are insane.

I don't know if you're familiar with Kumon. It's like CrossFit for kids developed by Japanese man in the fifties out of Japan, 30,000 Kumon centers all over the globe. It's massive. Cool. When I was 15, I left high school and I went to this school for, it was a school for, legally we're all homeschoolers, but it was these teachers, they followed an unschooling philosophy and they just left. They were Amherst, Massachusetts public high school teachers. They just said, screw this school, we're leaving. And they took 30 of their students with them and they made their own voluntary school and

made everyone homeschoolers. And then so I went there. So I know and I was living in subsidized housing back then. We really couldn't afford anything at that point. And so I know it doesn't take a whole lot of money and people can leave the school system, do their own thing. So I think it's a good time for that now. Are your parents still married? My parents were never married. I've never met my father. Oh, wow. Okay. And so your mom was cool with you going she she was okay with oh my mom found it well my mom wasn't cool with me being in the vice principal's office for most of the day for uh i didn't school and i didn't get along very well uh yeah so she was she she was researching trying to figure out what was better for me but

um so that i'd like to dig into your history a little bit but that brings me to the big question i was afraid to transfer schools in the fifth grade you weren't afraid to get your phd how how does someone have the confidence like i see those three letters and i see that pursuit and i'm like ah i'd rather try to get into the nfl and i'm only five five well i think i had a better shot i think i had a much better shot at a phd than the nfl um how does a guy who um who switches schools to age of 15 who doesn't like school school doesn't like him how do you end up with a PhD in nutritional science?

With half my brain dragging the other half kicking and screaming the whole way. Oh, that makes me so happy to hear that. I mean, yeah, actually. So I homeschooled when I was 15, then I dropped out of homeschooling legally. I literally had to sign the dropout papers so I could take the GED exam so that I could go to college when I was 16. And the only reason that I wanted to go to college so bad was because I knew that this was my chance to beat everyone else to college from the high school that I left because I would be two years ahead of them. And it was completely a competition thing. But there were just days where I would just start crying because I was so sad that I had this schedule where I had to be somewhere at 9.30. And that's why I'm self-employed now. I just can't stand anyone telling me when I have to be somewhere. And so I love learning and I love teaching, but just the sort of nine to five

or worse than that schedule, whether it's school or work, just fundamentally doesn't agree with my system. But at that time, I was just highly motivated because I was researching in the scientific literature and coming up with my own hypotheses about things. And it was quite clear that no one would ever research my hypotheses if I didn't. And so that was the, well, I'm sort of skipping ahead to why I went to grad school, but that's the question you asked anyway. So, you know, by that, by that time, uh, I was just so highly motivated because I felt like it was my calling to do this science stuff. And that was the only way to do it. It was the only way to do it if I wanted to actually be in research. Anyone can sit on

the computer and read PubMed studies and write a blog about it. But I wanted to research my hypotheses. And I felt like that was my gift to the world. but even when I was writing my dissertation, I, I, you, I was, I was so burned out. I was like, as soon as this is done, I'm going to pump gas for the rest of my life because I was just so sick of that stuff. And a lot of people felt like that. I mean, there were, there were people that, that, uh, you know, who were writing their dissertation at the same time as me who were about to give up, but they were like halfway

done. They're like, I'm going to quit right now. And they didn't, they, they got through it. But I think a lot of people just feel like that. They're just, when you're, when you actually devoted, you know, 36 hours per day, when there's only 24 for the last four and a half years to something, you're just sick of it. Um, you know, but then you recover and here I am. So, so you basically leveraged your ego as a as a soft as a 16 year old boy you're like to push myself into college yeah but what a great way to use the ego by the way people that that is what the ego is for

yeah i mean yes and no i i don't have any regrets but you know if i was advising someone who was who was pushed into it for the same reason as i was in the same situation i'd probably tell him to take another year off because i did actually like waste a year because i changed my major so much what were you what were you uh well what were the majors you went through well when i when i first started so when i so when i When I was 16, shortly before I started college, I was actually arrested for skateboarding. I was charged with disorderly person, and I successfully defended myself and my friend in a criminal trial. I thought I was going to be a lawyer. Is this New York?

No. This was in the total opposite of New York in Warren, Massachusetts, which is – I grew up in West Brookfield in Warren, Massachusetts, which are so small that they share a high school together, these two different towns. Can you give me little details of the arrest before? Were you skating on tops of dead bodies? How do you get arrested for skateboarding? No, I wasn't even skateboarding, actually. My friend was. Like how do you get it to skateboarding. And so they started ticketing people for skateboarding in public. And so downtown Warren, Massachusetts, there's the common and there's a big parking lot that is sparsely used during the day and not used at

all during night. And so people would skateboard and just do tricks on the skateboard there. But they widely viewed us as like a public menace because it was like punk rockers and stoners and hippies and white privilege white privilege white privilege well there were no people that weren't white in the town um and uh and so and so these uh so they also made it they made a rule that like you um they put up a sign that said no live parking because they didn't want people sitting, hanging out with their car there. And so if you had a car parked there and someone who is your friend sat on your car, you get a $5 ticket for it. And then the next town over didn't want our town hanging out with their kids. And so they made a law that if people were from Warren who were in West Brookfield, no more than three people could

be together at once in public. And so they'd ticket kids who were walking in the common with four people and three of them were from Warren. So it was just an all out assault on the countercultural people that hung out downtown Warren. And so there were parents who were trying to make a skateboard park at the fire department. And there were three selectmen and one of them was for it and one was against and one was on the fence. So the skateboard park kept going up and get taken down and going up and get taken down, depending on what happened at the town meeting. And so they're ticketing us. And so there was a whole, I started handing out movement, like leaflets about how they were, how they were like trying to persecute us and stuff like that.

You printed those out with your own money. You went to kink FedEx kinkos or whatever. Yeah. I mean, I don't remember how many I, well, hey, when I was in elementary school, I actually started a newspaper. But anyway, so so so anyway, so me me and my friend are downtown. It's my skateboard and it's at night and and the cops are there. There's a cop from Warren and West Brookfield, and they're just in the parking lot hanging

out. And so my friend decides that because the cops are there and because they're using this ridiculous law against bobsledding from the 1930s to ticket skateboarders, that he's going to start flamboyantly skateboarding in circles in front of the cops. And so he takes my skateboard, he started skateboarding in circles. And so the cop starts driving towards him, almost hits him, gets real mad, gets out and starts talking to him. And he's like over there. And so after a while, I'm like, what's going on over there? So I go over and I asked for my skateboard back. And he tells me I'm going to have to get it back the next day or something. And so anyway, long story short, I went to the police department and asked for a receipt for my skateboard. And they told me that they couldn't give me a receipt. I'd have to get it the next day. And I said, then what's the point of getting the receipt if I don't have any proof that you have my skateboard now?

they called the police and said that I was being disorderly. And then the cop stormed in and said, I'm sick of your antics, master John, you're going to get out of here right now. And so I walked out the door and I started mumbling, like kind of whispering, but loudly I was like,

all right, another victory for the fascists. And then a minute later, I hear the junk jingling of keys and cuffs up against the wall. And so they, so they, then they arrested us. And in Warren, they don't have a holding cell in Warren, Massachusetts. So I was handcuffed to like a radiator pipe behind a bench. And they didn't want us in the same room.

So my friend was arrested. They put him in the deputy's office chair and then handcuffed him around like one of the columns and then just and then he out of nowhere he comes in and he's like you got he takes off my shoes you like you got drugs in your master john and i was like i don't do drugs officer and anyway just to just to give me an f you he cut he comes in he's like he gives me a written receipt for my skateboard while I'm handcuffed there. He's like, here's your receipt. So anyway, we got charged with disorderly person. And actually, the place that I was homeschooling at, at this school, they hooked me up with some lawyers who gave me a pro bono appointment about how to research Massachusetts disorderly person law to defend myself in court. And, um, and then,

yeah, and I did that and we won. So dude, that is awesome. I know this isn't the point of the subject and I don't mean to bring my fight into your fight, but just so people know, as a child,

I was stopped by the cops hundreds of times. I've had very similar things happen to me. Um, this is a town with all white boys. This is like, do you guys understand you you guys do you guys see the picture here you understand anytime someone brings color or race into it you're fucking out of your mind 16 to fucking 35 year old boys are fucking we we fool around a lot we get in places that push up against the cops and we're always getting arrested and being handcuffed to radiators and and and and it makes our life interesting but please please that that that is what it that's what it's like being a boy it has nothing to do with being white or black or

brown or any of that shit stop stop with that shit tens of thousands of kids of all colors that's what that story has happened to okay so you you you event so you eventually go in you get your phd in nutritional science and then this part this transition um makes me curious too and i get this off of your website at some point you break away from the from academics you realize academics aren't for you what did you see you you alluded to the fact that maybe it was the hours they were asking you to keep and you didn't want to do the nine to five thing but i'm guessing you saw something in academia you're like this is bullshit i'm going out on my own did you see something was an incident i mean i i think i know i think i probably know where you're going with this based on the other

stuff that you said uh so i saw some stuff but i it uh i think what you're talking about is not it was a side issue for me it wasn't why i left the the The things that really motivated me to leave were... So first of all, overlapping with this, I started my own podcast and I was going in a business direction. And one of the things was I was just thinking of... So to me, the big fight for me inside academia was with the bureaucracy. So CUNY, City University of New York, is shockingly bureaucratic compared to any other, you know, I was, I came from, I did my postdoc at University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign. I did my PhD at University of Connecticut. So I know a little bit of something about universities. And CUNY is a whole different universe in terms of how bureaucratic it is.

Like I wanted to use a certain software for testing. It took me like a year and a half to implement it because it had to go into so many different signatures to get on it and, and all kinds of bizarre stuff. Like I should have been able to just do it. Um, and so I was, I was studying how to be like an executive of a business. And so I'm thinking about all, I'm thinking about how do I remove the bottlenecks in my, in my business. And so I was very influenced by Tim Ferriss's four hour work week at that time. And, um, and so I, I had actually, I had actually, I didn't have money for a teaching assistant. So I actually hired my mom for $15 an hour to be my

virtual teaching assistant. And so at some point, just to free up more time, I was just having tests get scanned and go through a copy machine all at once and then basically get sent to my mom as digital PDFs who would then distribute them into the students in shared Google Drive folders and put them into a spreadsheet and stuff like that. And so at one point, I started thinking, why am I putting so much effort into building an infrastructure to surround and try to cannibalize my job as my main bottleneck? And another thing that was influencing me was my grandparents and my mom had to move out of the house that I had to live in. So I had to do a lot of cleaning up. And I was, I had to clean up all the stuff for my child. And I realized that I started two

businesses when I was in elementary school. And I think, and I realized I was just unhappy because that's a big part of who I am is just the core drive to be, you know, completely autonomous and in control of, of what I'm doing and, and running my own businesses is a much better way to, to execute that part of who I am. But yeah, I mean, I think where you're going, I think like I do remember I was witness to some leaking out of the sociology department of some of the safe space stuff. Well, I wasn't even talking about that, to be honest. But specifically, I was talking about just more just that academic science is just horseshit. It's fucking lies. It's basically peer review. It's the same shit got the jews killed in germany it's the same shit that causes witch hunts it's like hey if we can get well i think yeah i think you're i think you're over generalizing there i mean okay good peer-reviewed peer-reviewed science can be horseshit or can be good and right right between but so sorry let me be clear um that uh to use that as the as the gold standard as

something that makes something real like basically like like the situation we're in now with medicine that some like if we have 20 doctors saying yes you should be doing this and that's the way that people that people use that as i guess the gold standard or something official instead of just maybe using common sense yeah so my type 2 diabetes is treated in this country, right? Yeah. My view on this, I guess, is a little bit more nuanced. So I view evidence-based medicine as I basically agree with the pyramid of evidence-based medicine in terms of what gives you the strongest confidence in cause and effect principles. So I agree, for example, that systematic reviews of randomized controlled trials are the best evidence of the cause and effect

nature of a treatment. I also agree with John Ioannidis that evidence-based medicine has been hijacked. And so I agree that it is used in a way – one of the things that people conflate is the basis for action with the basis for confidence in truth. And so on an objective level, we should be able to agree that in a certain defined context reflected by randomized controlled trials, that large randomized controlled trials and large numbers of them systematically reviewed and pooled are giving us the best understanding of whether this drug does or does not do this thing. But that's totally different from saying, what do I need to make to act on something for myself? And that includes subjective values that no one else can tell you. And you have complete right to the values to say, fuck evidence-based medicine. I don't want to follow it. And if that's what you believe, then you have the right to those values. And you also have the right to the values

of saying, look, there may not be a randomized controlled trial of using topical zinc for this skin condition, but it seemed like it worked to me. So I'm going to keep doing it. So I don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water. I don't think- Okay. Fair. Yeah. Very fair. And two things. I want to bring up how you said John Iannotti's name. That's the Greek man in Usain. Right. Will you say that one more time? Oh, so I mean, I don't know how he pronounces it, but the Greek in me makes it look like it's Ioannidis. Ioannidis. Are you a big fan of his? I like him. I don't have time to follow everything that he does, but I'm a fan. I follow.

Yeah. It seems like he has great morals, ethics, and integrity. And he's not willing – and he's willing to stand out. Oh, he's definitely willing to stand out. That's for sure. Yeah, and he's kind of gone into – well, the media has kind of hit him in the last year or two, right? I mean, you just don't hear from him. I was talking to someone yesterday who was asking me what was the transition when I started speaking out about this stuff? And I and I said, well, I was basically just doing the whole same thing the whole time.

And at some point, the mainstream narrative turned into extreme bullying. And then all of a sudden I became the one speaking out. I think that's exactly what happened to him. It happened to him a bit earlier earlier but he was literally just doing the same thing he always did you know but pre-covid you he could come out and say whatever that paper was 80 or 90 of all research findings are false or whatever yeah um and all he's doing is saying it continues to be the case as it always was that 90 of what they say about covid is false and uh you know now he's not allowed to say that anymore so now it looks like he's speaking out or whatever but he's just doing what he was doing before for people who don't know i and correct

me if i'm wrong on this he's a he's a stanford professor i think he might be the most cited living scientist alive he uh he might be and um anded living scientist alive. He might be. And he has some very interesting rules about where he will speak. I don't think he will speak at any organization. He will not accept payment to speak anywhere, and he will not speak at any for-profit organization, I think. So he has these really firm guidelines firm uh guidelines someone in the comments told me i need to chill out chill out what i mean we're just getting started just getting started i need to say some comments oh i had it on private chat instead of comments i see the comments now

uh we need i need to uh get wild so chris can put me in my place that's that's the whole thing if i if you guys always complain that i only have people who are on the same page as me and I get a, I get a guy pushing back and I need to chill out. Come on. So, um, so when you go into the, um, nutritional sciences, is, is your interest, is something at that point, um, wrong with you and you want to fix yourself? Is that why you chose? How did you choose the nutritional sciences? Yeah, that goes back to I went vegan and veganism and my body and brain didn't play nice and just sort of wrecked my health. And then I found Weston A. Price, who Weston A. Price was a dental researcher turned pioneer in nutritional

anthropology, who in the 1930s traveled the world looking at hunter-gatherers and other non-modernized peoples and documented the nutritional transition from their traditional diets into what he called the displacing foods of modern commerce, white flour, white sugar, called The Displacing Foods of Modern Commerce, white flour, white sugar, syrups, canned goods, vegetable oils, and documented how people were, because he was a dental researcher, he focused on their teeth, but he also talked to doctors who served those people. And so he developed real strong core evidence for dental effects, and then also peripheral evidence for cancer and other degenerative diseases. And the basic thesis of his book, Nutrition and Physical Degeneration,

was that as people went, a combination of necessity and accumulated wisdom had kept people eating foods that nourished their bodies. And when they transitioned to the displacing foods of modern commerce, basically physical, that's why it's called nutrition, physical degeneration. Physical degeneration was the consequence of the displacing foods of modern commerce. And at that time, my teeth were falling apart. And so I was very interested in this work. And one thing that I realized was that the traditional diets didn't look anything like

mine. So they emphasized, especially depending on where they were, they didn't all emphasize the same thing, but they all emphasize at least one category of fat-soluble rich animal foods. He broke down the four categories as full-fat dairy, the animal life of the sea so fish and shellfish um third one being egg yolks and organ meats and the fourth being uh small frogs and insects which are eaten whole and include you know skeletons and and organs and so on and so i thought you know first of all my vegan diet doesn't look anything like this and then second of all even when I was an omnivore, I wasn't eating a very nutrient-dense diet. So it kind of rearranged my diet and revolutionized my health. The big turning point was my mental health had just gone way down the tubes.

I had anxiety problems from when I was a teenager. But at that point, my anxiety problems aggravated to the point where I was probably borderline psychotic. There were times where I couldn't eat anything because I thought it was all drugged or poisoned. And I remember one time inspecting a package of veggie burger for like 20 minutes, trying to look for a hole in it. And then I probably made the hole myself. And then I was like, this is tampered with it. And then I didn't know if I made it or not. And so I was just so angry at myself that I couldn't eat it, that I threw it across the room in anger and then went into my bedroom and cried that I couldn't eat anything. And I was so hungry.

And so- Was that the turning point? No. No, that's an example of before the turning point. So the turning point was I was an undergrad and I was working in the dining hall and I was a dishwasher. And so I'm putting out clean dishes and I look at this guy and he picks up half the plates and he takes one from the middle. I looked at him and as he was walking away, I thought, that guy's really weird. Why didn't he take the one on top? And then a minute later, I'm just walking away. And then I'm like, wait a second. Then I remembered back that I, not only did I do that every time that I took a plate, but that was literally the least neurotic out of anything I did around my food two months before that. And I used to spend 20 minutes

looking for a glass that was clean enough in the same dining hall where I was a dishwasher. And, um, and so at that point I realized that not only did I not have those problems anymore, but they were so foreign to me that I was making fun of this guy inside my head. Wow. And, and at that point i realized that i was like a different person uh that was a turning point do you eat any frogs or insects uh not really i mean i i don't know if i've ever had frogs i might have had frogs legs at a restaurant or something like that and i might have uh i know i've eaten i mean i've eaten exo bars in the past um i don't know if I've eaten XO bars in the past. I don't know if I've eaten... Those are made from crickets and shit? Those are made from crickets.

I don't think I've ever eaten a chocolate-covered grasshopper, and I don't eat raw insects off the ground or anything like that. But I have eaten a lot of organ meats, for sure. Usually from large animals. This is off-sub subject a little bit, but, um, uh, there was a story,

uh, maybe a year ago of someone in Hawaii who was with some friends and was joking around and put a slug in their mouth. And I think they died. Oh yeah. Did you know what I'm referencing? Or it was a, I don't,

I don't, I don't know. I don't know what you're talking about. So I don't think it's a good idea for city dwellers to go out and forage without any knowledge. Don't grab a rat from the subway and just start eating them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, not only is our environment quite a bit different but also we're very divorced from the traditional knowledge so if you're going to go

out and learn from someone who knows their own environment very well who wants to teach you to forage go go ahead and do it but i'm not going to be the i'm not going to be the first one going rat hunting on the subway for lunch are you friends with tyler fisher uh funny you ask uh i wouldn't say i'm friends with him but i did meet tyler fisher at the brooklyn comedy club and up on my instagram i got a picture of me and some friends with him yeah and i saw that he is all hell yeah you know because he was on my podcast oh really, really? Yeah. And that was another thing. I was like, holy cow, he knows Tyler. Yeah.

I don't know if you should help him because I don't want you to – whatever his pathology is, I don't want you to break him and then him not be funny anymore. But a lot of these things that you're describing, these behaviors, I mean I don't know if you've talked to him much besides just meeting him there. I haven't talked to him about his health. Well, he's just going through some shit. He's going through some heavy psychological shit, right? I think he's maybe a little less prepared than me, but he's a hardcore liberal. He's got the – basically, he was raised in the victocracy, in the victim mindset, and he's going through the the transition and the transition for some people can be really hard especially if you don't have a lot of support right it's like dropping acid i couldn't tell what his politics were from his

comedy show yeah he's really um he's he's um that at least means someone's not an authoritarian yeah i mean i mean yeah i mean it's happening to a lot of people on the left right like like everything's fine peace and hunky dory god bless blm all people kumbaya blah blah blah and then all of us like as they keep oh but it's happening to blm too yeah right right and i saw your post on that but as they push further and further they're like wait a minute i have to take this shot i have to take this wait you want to put the injection in my kids well it's it's also you want to track my money it should also be made clear that black lives matter greater new york was never part of black lives matter global network never received any soros funding and has never played nice with the black lives

matter global network oh that's good that's not to say that you would agree with right the newsomes on much but actually you probably would agree with them on 50% of what they say or something like that. And none of the stuff on race. But my stance on that basically is this. It's not me. It's Mother Teresa. It's Jimmy Carter shit. It's if you fight racism with racism,

the winner will be racist. You send boys away to a foreign country to kill people and they're going to come back killers. You just have to be aware of what we're doing. You, you have, you believe in the death penalty. The person who flicks the switch is now a killer, but you've killed a killer. And it's like, there just should be honest discussion around that. So fighting racism with racism is kind of like where, you know, and I'm a, I'm a, I'm Armenian and my kids are jews and so i got these armenian jews and so i got this whole

you know i have this bias towards persecution do you know any armenians uh i know i mean i don't lie i casually i casually know some armenians uh you know i mean. I was raised as an Orthodox Christian. There's a subsection of Armenians who are Armenian Orthodox Christians. So I know kind of through that. I think every BLM chapter has an Armenian lawyer. And every good Greek boy should have a good Armenian friend. You know that. We share some similar, um, histories. Um, so, so you get into the nutritional sciences and, and when you, when you, when you, when you want to, um, get out of the academia

and you want to start your own, and I highly recommend people go to your website. It's, uh, chrismasterjohnphd.com. You're basically starting your own, would it be wrong to say school? I mean, you could call it a school. I guess what I do is educate people. Is the cornerstone of your work the Vitamins 101? I mean, the cornerstone of my expertise is in vitamins and minerals. And so Vitamins and Minerals 101 is a project that started as a free class and is turning into a book. And it's basically serving to try to bridge the people who don't necessarily have any science background and who have some interest in health and who might become the person who is interested enough in nutrition to know what each vitamin and

mineral does, it's sort of meant to be the bridge from that person into the world of they found the value of knowing what each vitamin and mineral does. of they found the value of knowing what each vitamin and mineral does um and it in the course of doing so it's actually extremely useful to people who are health professionals and who do have a science background even though it's designed to to be the bridge of the people who don't have that background into the nutrition community basically my my thing is and it might i'm not saying well i guess i am saying it's right but even if it's wrong i'm okay with it my thing is that i push on everyone around me my kids my family my all my social media regard all my cross-fitting friends is hey there's two there's two things you have to do you have to stop eating foods with added sugar and you have to stop

eating refined carbohydrates and i was basically on that that 15 year journey after I heard that from Greg Glassman to do that. And then I also came across, um, Paul Saladino, who's also another mutual contact of ours. Who's been on this podcast a couple of times, um, that, um, I use the carnivore diet to go into ketosis. At least that's what I think that's what they call it and then from there i just stopped craving sugar and i slowly started adding vegetables back into my life and that's kind of where i am today i basically just eat um the the the prescription of food that um greg glassman gave for crossfitters and it's and it's with sort of a hybrid of paul saladino although i really like vegetables i don't i don't run from them them like so much he does. And they sit well with me,

but I use that to, so my point with that I'm headed here is into you to use a metaphor that I use often, which I hope doesn't, isn't too crass for you. If there is no cure for pregnancy, the, the, basically what you have to do is you have to just not, you have to not like it well good point um the the thing is is that you just have to not um the penis cannot be inside the vagina upon ejaculation and and and if you don't do that it's a good rule you you won't you won't get pregnant don't sit on the um hard penis and uh i feel that way about health. It's not about adding things for 90. You know, there are some exceptions to that.

Of course. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. To the penis metaphor you're talking about or to the to not. I mean, you can pull out and you can be surprised. Right. Of course. Yes. Yes. There's always don't ruin my story, please. There's always – don't ruin my story, please. So my thing is that so many people, like they don't need to worry about adding things. They don't need – what they need to do is just stop putting poison into their bodies. What you have to do is you have to stop waking up every morning and having a frappuccino and a croissant and you'll be at the, you'll be at the 90 yard line. How does that, and I feel like a lot of people just want to add stuff. So when I see, I see, and I obviously see your body, I see that you work out. I see that you're

healthy. I see that, you know, you, and what's interesting, you went through a similar journey as Paul Saladino. You had eczema, right? Is that one of the journeys you talk about? I have had a problem with eczema. Yeah. And, and, you know, did you know he did also? I don't know if I knew that. Okay. Yeah. It's pretty serious. And that was kind of, I think that was the catalyst for sort of his journey. He's like, he's like, I'm curing this eczema shit. Interesting. Um, I love, I love your body of work and It's the vitamins are super important, but, but where is it where you have a person who's a hundred pounds overweight and they come across

your work and they're like, Hey, Oh yeah, shit. I need to eat some more vitamin a. And like, are you like, no man, like you don't need to add something to the mix. Well, I mean my, my work really isn't for the person whose limiting factor at this moment is they need to lose a hundred pounds. Um, you know, I, I'm not going to hesitate to inform someone that that might be the thing that they should do if that's the case, but that's not why I'm, that's not the person I'm writing a book for. Um, but I don't, uh, I mean, so first of all, in my, in the introduction for my book, which is not released yet, you can pre-order it, but I don't have the release date yet. So it's, it's up to you. Do it people, pre-order the book. It's a contribution.

But, you know, I have a section in the introduction called why just eat real food isn't enough. I have a section in the introduction called why just eat real food isn't enough. And, and I basically, I'm, it basically makes the case why, you know, all these things are, are quite good.

And so, you know, if, but they're not, but they're not, they don't bring you to complete nutritional adequacy. And, you know,

there are, there is evidence of, of nutritional deficiencies from archeological evidence going back millions of years. And one of the lessons of Weston Price's work, where he studied a lot of different hunter-gatherer tribes in depth, was that they weren't just forced into eating good food because they didn't have modern foods that helped, but they also had a cumulative body of wisdom about what to eat. And they didn't, they didn't necessarily, they didn't know what all the vitamins and minerals were because they didn't have that science, but they knew, for example, that you could go blind if you didn't eat liver and that if you were going

blind from not eating liver, the best thing you could do is eat an eyeball. And they had various- Is that true? Is that true what you just said? Oh, because of the vitamin A, yeah. Wow. And so they had very specific cause and effect knowledge about specific foods and specific nutritional deficiency diseases that may as well have been knowledge of the vitamins and minerals. They just didn't know what the microscopic components of those foods were, but they knew that certain specific foods that they had to go out of their way to get. And these are people, you know, one of the things that he documented also was their strength of character and the sheer willpower that they had to walk two miles to get, you know, something that was a source of iodine when they had plenty of calories at home because they knew that it prevented big neck. Which is, you know, which was what they called goiter what we call goiter um so they had they

had very extensive knowledge of uh nutritional deficiencies in the foods that prevented them just not the actual vitamins and minerals that were in those foods that that on a microscopic molecular level uh were responsible for why that food cured that disease but they knew about the food disease relationship and they had this body of knowledge, you know, how'd they get it? Uh, you know, I do know some people who think that spirits gave it to them through their shamans, but I, my, my theory is that it was accumulated from trial and error. Why would they bother knowing? So when Weston Price visited the natives of the Arctic, he asked them if they ever got scurvy. And they were like, scurvy is a white man's disease. And he said, well, why doesn't the Indian get scurvy?

And they said, oh, well, when the moose is in mating season, their necks get real big. So we know that they're in mating season. We kill the moose and we cut out this little ball of fat from above their kidneys and we cut it into little pieces and we give a piece to every big Indian and every little Indian in the tribe. And that's why we don't get scurvy. And the white man gets scurvy because they don't, they don't want to ask us how we prevent it. Um, and so, and what part of the moose is that

that's full, full of vitamin C that's the adrenal gland. Uh, and the adrenal gland is named the ad renal gland because it is on top of renal, the kidneys. And so to them, it was a little ball of fat on top of the kidney, but it's the adrenal gland. It's the richest source of vitamin C. And it appears that the, I guess the moose would develop a sort of transient hyperthyroidism that would look kind of like goiter, but it would be because they're trying to pump up their thyroid hormones to get their reproductive hormones going. goiter, but it would be because they're trying to pump up their thyroid hormones to get their reproductive hormones going. And presumably at that time, there's an enrichment in the

vitamin C content of the adrenal gland. At least that's what they knew about. But how would they have all this knowledge about it if they didn't get scurvy? And so this makes me extremely skeptical of all these claims in the carnivore community that all you need to do is eat meat. And long as it's fresh you're not going to get scurvy then how the hell did these people in the in the arctic of canada how on earth did they have this extensive body of knowledge of what specific part of the moose they had to eat in order to not get scurvy but only we're eating but but isn't but isn't that meat i don't see yes yes but there is a contradiction here the it's not contradicting the idea that you can you

cannot get scurvy on a carnivore diet it's contradicting the idea that all you need to do is eat fresh muscle meat on a carnivore diet to not get okay specifically for okay so basically if i just eat hamburger meat i'm good you can still get scurvy you got it's back to the nose to yeah and these are these are the people that were were quasi carnivore from birth basically because they weren't carnivore but they were you know as close as you can naturally get to carnivore but they were carnivore but they were that close to carnivore from birth through their whole lives. And so they didn't have a history of high vitamin C intake and other things that would predispose them to take longer to develop scurvy. But anyway, the point is the only way they have

all this knowledge is because they suffered through all these deficiencies. And so that, that, you know, that combined with archeological evidence that there were humans millions of years ago who got nutritional deficiencies, you know, I think the rate of nutritional deficiencies is lower when people are just eating real food. But it's, but it's not, it's not zero. And you also have to understand nutrition. Um, you used in some of your older videos you supported, um, or you had a sponsor called ancestral blends and I take that stuff. And then I've been taking that stuff for, I don't know, since I, since I found Paul, I've been messing with the heart and soil and then sense ancestral blends. And I was basically, um, when I was on the carnivore after like three or

four months, I want to say something wasn't right. Something wasn't right. I was getting, my hands and feet were getting cold. There was some weird shit going on with my heart. And so I started taking those pills and like, I feel like within hours I got some reprieve from that. And then eventually I started adding a little, a little bit of, well, I started eating just a shit ton of more vegetables. adding a little a little bit of uh well i started eating just a shit ton of more vegetables i would have a little bit of honey once in a while and everything just went back to normal but um what i what do you think about desecrated um are they still a sponsor of yours ancestral i and that guy's exploded on the scene are you seeing yeah i'm

an affiliative i'm a i'm an affiliate of theirs but okay i am i am not using any podcast sponsorships at the moment okay yeah and you see have you met brian like in person i haven't met him in person no okay just talk to him he looks real jacked on the on the on his picture so um are you talking to him on the phone i i uh i don't i don't know if i follow him on instagram i mean to be honest i very rarely even look through my instagram feed because it takes me so long just to look at my instagram comments that yeah done with instagram when i'm not um i don't think i don't think i even knew he was on instagram to be honest fanduel casinos exclusive live dealer studio has your chance at the number one feeling winning which beats even the 27th best feeling

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it's a, I think it's liver king. He's exploded. He's put on like a, it's a, I think it's liver King. He's put on basically like over, like I want to say a hundred thousand, maybe now 200,000 followers, just like overnight. He's everywhere. All the chat rooms,

all the muscle guys, 228,000. Yeah. I think last time I looked, he's doing good. Not getting shadow band because it didn't, it didn't prompt me to say, are you sure you want to follow him? He's, he's doing good he's doing good not getting shadow banned because it didn't it didn't prompt me to say are you sure you want to follow him he he's he's staying on subject he's basically like hey just eat liver just eat liver just eat liver i mean that's his basic yeah yeah yeah yeah they're

not going to shadow ban him for that yet um why aren't you so do you think i always trip that i take all those pills the desecrated meat meat. Do you think that the nutrients, the nutrients are still in there from the organs? Um, well, I actually, I also take it's, uh, the desiccated liver. Sorry, desiccated. When I say desiccated, you said, yeah, you said desiccated. That's thank you. Somewhat different meaning. That's why you're a PhD. So, um, desiccated livers is a dried out liver. So I don't know, I haven't studied it enough to like, it would be great to, to sort of do a lab analysis of it. Um, but my guess is that there are some things that are lost, but, but most of it's not, I mean, generally speaking, drying something out is not, is not a harsh way to lose nutrients. It's generally protective.

But you're probably losing some material somewhere. You might be concentrating other things. So as long as the desiccation process is not high heat, I would be quite surprised if you were losing much. And also, liver is surprisingly stable. It's a surprisingly stable environment for nutrients that are otherwise not stable. So for example, folate is very unstable to cooking and to freezing over time, but it's stable in liver. So it's in conditions where folate and vegetables would just disappear, it stays stable in liver.

And I think that's because the liver does so much as the metabolic hub of the body that a lot of the things that are needed to stabilize and recycle nutrients are present there that just create a protective environment. Let me try to throw a contradiction there. I think it was your Instagram that I was looking at and someone was asking you about putting and and i'm i there's a very good chance i'm not remembering this correctly um someone's talking about putting liver in a vitamixer and i thought you i'd be careful of that yeah okay so why so that okay so if you're saying it's stable and you can dry it out i mean that shit's like powder why why why do you have an issue with the vitamin wellix? Well, so it's – I guess if anything is going to be stable to the Vitamix, it's probably the liver. But the problem with the Vitamix that has a potential stability compared to a desiccation process is the rapid movement of air into the product. So what I do know as an example is that blending can destroy the glutamyl cysteine bonds found in whey proteins that boost glutathione status. And so i'd be a little more careful with it i don't

know i haven't seen any data on blending it um so wait a second now you've opened up another window blending whey protein's not a good idea either do i hear that i wouldn't put whey protein in a blender, no. So all those people who make shakes, is that why? How about shaking? I would shake it. Wow. Holy shit. But I mix it with a spoon.

I mean, I'm very much a functional. I don't try to make my shakes taste good or anything. I just throw it in the thing, mix it up. Are you working out every day? No, I lift weights three times a week. And do you sweat every day? Uh, I mean, I'm, I'm sweating a little bit right now. Uh, cause I don't have the AC on, but I i if you're asking me if i do high intensity work every day uh no i'll probably try to work more high more high intensity work in but um i'm kind of in a i'm kind of in a serious recovery of loss of health, I gained so much COVID weight that I was literally obese for

one day in 2020. And so, um, and so I I've been, I've been focusing on, um, I've kind of just finished losing all my COVID weight. And so I've been now, right now I'm just focusing. My workout has been largely designed to lose that weight without losing muscle mass and get my hormones back in balance. And so right now, part of the issue is that just my workload is so high that it's real easy for me to get 15,000 to 20,000 steps every day because there's a lot of work I can do on a treadmill. But there's not a lot of work I can do where I'm also doing, uh, you know, high intensity stuff, but you're right. You're calling me out on a, no, no, no, I'm not. No, no, no, I'm not. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not. Hey, Hey, listen, if I do think that if you could get 10 minutes on the assault bike every day, it would be like, I mean, that, that's like the bare minimum. I don't have an assault bike, but I could just like jumping jacks or you got room

in those 322 square feet of palatial NYC studio for an assault bike. Oh, I'm not in a studio. Yo, where, where you're not in a studio. Where are you? I have a two bedroom and this bedroom is my office. Well, just half of it is my office. That half of it is my gym. Life is good. Do you think you'll ever move out in New York? I want to finish my book before I even think about moving. And then I'll reevaluate the state of the city. So it's given me a lot of hope for the city to find that there are other people that think this is all BS.

Yeah. But we'll see what we impact. Yesterday was, I was recording podcast interviews yesterday, and so I couldn't make it to the protest yesterday. But the police department and the fire department marched with the other city workers who showed up, marched from the fire department headquarters, and it looked like there might've been tens of, there was definitely thousands of people, but some people

are saying it was 20,000. I mean, it's probably lower than that because usually the highest estimates aren't correct. But it was real big. And that day, the head of the fire department union said that it's the duty of the firefighters who aren't complying to report to work anyway and ignore the mandate. And they don't know what'll happen, but they'll take care of them. So I think that is a big deal because generally the heads of unions have not at all been with the rank and file on this. They've been, you know, the head, the, the teacher, the head of the teacher's union was just a total scumbag to them. Um, and so I don't know if, I don't know if it's, I think that it's, you know, because it was so clear that there was

so much pushback. Um, and I know like when we marched through the street, the best response on this, the most consistent response on the street is from police, firefighters, and truckers, truck drivers. And so I think that crowd is like, now that they're all getting mandated, I think they're joining in on the fight. And who knows what would happen in the next year, but I'll decide whether I'm going to stay or not like next spring. Yeah. People are always asking me if I'm going to leave California. My life is so good here, but, but the, but the situation for so many people is bad. The reason why I stand up is for two reasons. One, I have kids, but I also feel that, um, an obligation that since I'm not, um, beholden to the man, because I am independently wealthy, cause I did work so

hard already and I can rest a little bit that I have to speak up for those people who are being forced to do it. That's exactly, that's exactly how I feel. And I mean, I, I'm not wealthy, but I'm, but I'm okay. You know? Right. Right. Well, you have a business. Yeah. I wouldn't necessarily say I'm well, I'm probably wealthy compared to anyone who lives like in fucking Mount Vernon, Illinois. But but you have an online business. Yeah. I'm not worried about my. Yeah. Yeah. My ability to live. You know, when you're your own boss. Yeah. When I built my squat rack next to me, I was like, all right, I'm doing my barefoot boxers workout now. barefoot boxers work out now. But when I started seeing tens of thousands of people in imminent danger of losing their jobs, that's what pissed me the F off and got me in the street consistently.

So I feel exactly the same way. My position is, why should the right to control what goes into my own body be predicated on me having a two you know, two standard above the deviation, two standard deviation above the mean IQ and total, uh, total stubbornness and unwillingness to, to have a schedule. Why are those the two characteristics that justify me having control over my own body? That's, that's not the bar being human should be the bar, body. That's, that's not the bar being human should be the bar, you know, is, is there, is there any validity in the argument that, um, if we don't get the, that we have to get the injection to protect the other people, to protect the people who are vulnerable? No. Uh, so, um, so the, the, the, I mean, the gist of it is this. So, uh, first of all,

from the perspective of the mandates, your, your question really is, is if you're talking about filth, like having a binary filtering of people who are clean and unclean, um, the vaccination status gives you no reasonable ability whatsoever to classify people into spreaders and non-spreaders. That's complete BS. Now, the people who actually understand the science, who are not many people, but the people who do know the data, who defend the mandates, say, well, that's not the point of the mandates. The point of the mandates is to make life very inconvenient for people who don't get vaccinated to incentivize them to get vaccinated because it's a probability game. And if you have a higher rate of vaccination overall, you did your duty not by being clean instead of unclean, but by being a participant in the

statistic of a high vaccination rate, which will overall reduce the net probability of transmission. Now, the problem with that is that there's no correlation whatsoever. In fact, the correlation is generally positive, but not statistically significant between vaccination rates and caseloads. And people look at that study and say, well, they didn't control for all the confounding factors. Well, the authors aren't anti-vaccination. Well, the authors said the vaccines are still effective. It doesn't matter. The point is that at a broad level, the evidence contradicts the fact that you're doing anything to reduce transmission if the places with the highest vaccination rates don't have

higher caseloads. No one is implementing a mandate with a complex, sophisticated multivariate model that controls for all the confounding factors. They're telling you, you got to upload your vaccination status to a passport app, and that determines whether you have a job and whether you can get into a restaurant, whether you can get into a gym, and whether your 13-year-old kid can go to the afterschool dance class. No one's doing a multivariate model. So you're not supposed to use the highly sophisticated statistics to try to weed out all the confounding factors. You're just supposed to say at a very broad level, does having this blunt hammer that we're hammering everyone on the head with, does it work or not? And it doesn't mechanistically, I, I think what happened and I'm studying this, I'm very immersed

in this research right now, cause I'm working on a review on it with an immunologist, but it looks to me like the vaccines did reduce the transmission of alpha, um, the alpha variant, which preceded the Delta variant. And that's what allowed the Delta variant to take over because the vaccines don't protect against the Delta variant at all. And then once you get into sort of 100 percent of cases or close to it or Delta, then the vaccine is doing nothing and positively worse than nothing on its effect within an individual to transmit. ignoring is that even if the vaccine did reduce transmission by 20%, that might be completely more than counteracted by the behavioral effect of the mandates. Because the lesson of the mandate is... So remember, pre-COVID, you know there were the people behind the counter who, if they picked their nose and no one saw it, they're going to wrap up the sandwich for you anyway, because people have different levels of conscientiousness, right? And so you take those people and then you tell them

every single day, you got the shot. So you have a magical force field around you that makes you the clean person that can't spread disease while these fuckers that we're keeping out of your Starbucks are the spreaders. And now that that we're keeping out of your Starbucks are the spreaders. And now that we've kept them out, now you're all magical and no one gets disease. You think that person that would have picked their nose without washing their hands before COVID isn't now going to do it all the time? I mean, so you're within the spread of people. You're basically... The conscientious people, you're telling them they can put their guard down. And the non-conscientious person, you're basically giving them a license to

believe that there's some kind of magical unicorn that can't spread any disease and to just be totally irresponsible. And so the more responsible people are going to say, well, no, no one would do that. No one's saying that. It doesn't matter. When you institute a public health policy, you're responsible for all blowback that you get, all compliance that you get, all noncompliance that you get. When you make policy, you're responsible for all the effects of the policy. You don't get to invade Vietnam and be like, well, the war is working. It's just that we didn't plan for them to shoot back. You know, like shooting them, shooting back is part of the, it's part of the thing. Right. Right. And so if you institute a mandate and there's, and there are people who don't comply,

it is not their fault. They didn't comply. Your policy sucks if it didn't achieve the goal it was supposed to achieve. Because you have to know that there will be variants. There will be lots of variation in how people respond to your mandate. And as a public health policy person, whatever that response is, is the effect of the policy period on the story. It doesn't matter what your intentions were. And so I do think... And you see this now, right? Like they're canceling Broadway shows because the breakthrough infection rate is too high. I mean, is it a misnomer to use the word breakthrough? How can something that they've never, what's the, what's the, what's the argument for that? They've never professed that this thing would stop um they never professed that this thing would

stop sars-cov-2 the who fauci all these these people they they always they always knew that sars that it would only mitigate the symptoms of covet 19 so when i hear the word breakthrough home like these like like that that's a misnomer like this thing was never like a breakthrough is when you're picking up dog poop with a with a poop bag and you go to pick up the poop and there's a hole in the bag and you get some on your finger this thing was never supposed to be this was it was a mesh net i i day one i see what i see what you're saying and i'm and i'm sympathetic to that argument i'd have to hear some counter arguments and think through it a bit but um i'm just a hater so i'm so angry so i just, I'll think through it now.

Okay. So, so first of all, it's, it's, it's the way you said is kind of true, but it's, it's not the whole story. So the clinical trials were done to detect the effect on symptomatic cases, and they were not done to detect the effect on PCR positivity, and they were not done to detect the effect on transmission. But they weren't done in a way where everyone was saying, we expect this to have no effect on transmission or PCR positivity. They were just done with the study design not designed to do that. so the position of of of those researchers

the public health people is basically was basically at that point was well we know it reduces asymptomatic we know it reduces symptomatic cases we will have to do more research to try to figure out if it if it prevents transmission yeah um so it wasn't like they came out and they said we know this won't prevent transmission they they came out and they said, we know this won't prevent transmission. They came out and they said, although they could have designed the studies to detect whether it reduced PCR positivity in the first place, and they didn't. Because if they tested everyone, they would have had that information. But instead, they left it up to the people to say, excuse me, I think I have COVID. Could you see if I have COVID? And that's how people got tested in

those trials. But then the other thing is, I think you could still call it a breakthrough case if someone gets a symptomatic case despite that, because it is designed to reduce the symptomatic caseload. But if someone just tests PCR positive and they're not designed to reduce PCR positivity, then I could see why you would say that that's not really a breakthrough case because it was never claimed to reduce just testing positive. And then of course, if it's transmission, you can say, well, the jury's still out and has always been out on transmission. So why would you call it a breakthrough case? So I get that. But anyway, the point is that they're canceling Broadway shows.

You have Kamala Harris came out and said, we need to protect the vaccinated and the people who can see through the smoke screen are like, wait a second, isn't that what the vaccine is supposed to do? But here we find that even though they've banned the unvaccinated from society, somehow they're still canceling Broadway shows because apparently it's the vaccinated transmitting into the vaccinated, which is, you know, which is what they found in numerous studies of outbreaks like the Provincetown outbreak with the Delta variant. That was the basis for CDC saying, wait a second, maybe vaccinated people should be wearing masks. CDC saying, wait a second, maybe vaccinated people should be wearing masks. They found that vaccinated people were more likely to transmit it than non-vaccinated. And other people that I have, they documented with real strong evidence, seven pairs of, it was three or seven. I think they had the strongest evidence for three, but the general

evidence indicated that there were many chains of transmission that were between fully vaccinated people and other fully vaccinated people. And they concluded that fully vaccinated people are capable of very efficiently transmitting the Delta variant to other fully vaccinated people. And it's like, what are you who's protective the vaccine from whom the vaccinated how you gonna do that make everyone stay at home that's the only way you can do it i i think if i heard you right this is going back like three or four minutes you alluded to the fact that it's possible that getting the um injection would actually make it so you um might have a less protection against the delta variant is the idea that, that when you get the injection, it specifically tunes up your immune system to look for a and therefore misses D.

Is that the theory? Yeah. So I'm talking about spreading it if you get it and not getting sick. So it does seem like the efficacy is waning for protecting against being a symptomatic case in Delta, but it's not disappearing. Whereas the efficacy against transmitting it once you have it. So against if you get it, you being less likely to give it to the next person because you got the shot, that efficacy might be turning negative in Delta, meaning the people who get Delta might be more likely to spread Delta to other people if they got vaccinated. And it's not clear whether that's biological or if it's just behavioral. Because like I was saying before, if you are less likely to have symptoms, you're more likely... And actually, I didn't make this point. I skipped over it. if you are less likely to have symptoms, you're more likely,

and actually I didn't make this point, I skipped over it. If you're less likely to have symptoms, and we know the vaccine does that, if you're less likely to have symptoms, by default, you're more likely to spread it because when people get sick, they're more likely to take protective actions against other people. They might not always do it, but they're more likely to stay home from work. They're more likely to not go out with their friends. Even if they just feel like crap, they're more likely to not go out, but they might also just be thinking, well, I don't want to get other people sick. Some people do that. And so on average, when you reduce symptoms, you are reducing protective behaviors that people engage in against transmitting to other people. But like I was saying before, when you do that in the context of everyone being constantly messaged

that they're the clean ones who can't spread, then I think you dramatically amplify that behavioral effect. And so I don't know if it's biological or behavioral. I find it deeply implausible that the behavioral effect is not there. But one of the things I want to do when I'm in this project where I'm working on with the immunologist is, is to try to just brainstorm if there are biological mechanisms that, that could also explain that. And I, I think there might be, but it's, that part is so complicated. The behavioral effect is just so obvious.

Um, well, it's not obvious. Once you hear someone say it you're like oh yeah yeah it's you got to hear it but once you hear it it's hard to unthink it um whereas the biology is so complex it's so i okay i'm gonna stay on subject here um uh so the the place where i agree with you about the spreading is, is yes, if you're, if you're, if you, and it trips me up because I have friends who are police officers and firefighters and where they have to, and they're not, they don't have the shot or the vaccine. And so they have to be tested every single day.

Whereas the person who does have the vaccine only has to be tested once a month. I'm like, they have that all backwards because theoretically you wouldn't see it in the person who has the vaccine because they wouldn't be showing symptoms. They're the ones who should be getting tested every day. But my pushback on that would be this. I do. Yeah. I think that testing out is, is total BS. Yes. Um, but, but I do think that people who are unhealthy are, are, I believe in the logic that they are the super spreaders. And why do I think that? Because if you're 100 pounds overweight and you get a cold, you are going to have it for two months and you're going to be coughing and sneezing and snotty. And you're going to be blowing that shit all around to where someone like me who has a fucking crazy immune system, who doesn't eat added sugar, doesn't eat refined carbohydrates.

My NK cells and T cells can just flow through my bloodstream freely and just whoop ass. Go ahead. I agree with you, but I think the relationship is not monotonic. In other words, it's not- What's that mean? It means, so a line that- Complex? No. So I think it's a wavy line that goes up and down the relationship between having a worst case in transmitting rather than being a straight up line where asymptomatic, mildly symptomatic, moderately and severely symptomatic just all goes up in transmitting. So I think there's, but I think the principle that you said is right. I just think there's a

couple other principles operating. So on the severe end, once you are so severe, you're in the hospital, you're not going to transmit it. And if it kills you, you obviously are not going to transmit it. But the person who spreads it most is the person that you said, who has it for two months. By necessity, they're around a lot of other people. They're very heavily symptomatic, so they're sneezing and coughing a lot. So I agree that person spreads it most. If they get more severe, they'll spread it less because they'll be locked away in a room where everyone puts plexiglass around them or something like that. But then on

the weaker end, I think there is a place where there are people who do stay home if they're mildly sick and it goes away and then they go back out. Whereas the person who doesn't realize they have it where the transmission likelihood might not, it's not going to be anywhere near as high as someone who's coughing and sneezing. But if they are, but if they don't, if it seems so weak that it doesn't matter to them and they are closely mixing with other people, then they're at heightened risk compared to the person who knew they were sick and stayed home. But you're right that then you get into even more spreading when you have the person who's just sick for two months, can't stay away from other people, and is very heavily symptomatic. But what I'm saying is I don't think that line goes like this. I think it goes like this.

Okay. That's the word monotonic. Yeah. Monotonic relationship is just the slope of the line is always the same. Okay. monotonic relationship is just the slope of the lines always the same okay and then and then um and then you know if the slope is zigzag if it's zigzagging it's i'm saying it's zigzagging instead of a straight line you're you're a smart man of science and precision and i am a um theater major that's the difference i just i can talk in these, these extremes. I, I, I, I've often posted on my Instagram, um, uh, show me one healthy person who's died from, um, COVID. I don't believe that a single healthy person has died. What do I mean by single healthy person? I mean, anyone,

like when I see these numbers at 76% of people who've died from COVID or obese, I think that it's more like 98%. I think that people who have a ton of insulin and leptin flowing through their bloodstream, I don't think they're immune from the YouTube videos I've watched, the immune system cannot work. And from what I've seen about what the leptin receptor is responsible for in relationship to its relationship with NK cells and T cells and what they tell NK cells and T cells to do. When you become leptin scepter resistant, um, that, that, that job becomes severely compromised. And there's not a lot of talk about that. And, uh, I just, anytime I say that no one healthy has died from COVID, there's this one picture of a kid from New York city that everyone keeps sending me. It's like a 17 or 18 year old kid. And he's, and I'm willing to, there's this one picture of a kid from new york city that everyone keeps sending me it's like a 17 or 18 year old kid and he's and i'm willing to there's not enough information on

him for me to like know for sure but i can't find anything that makes me right so i'll give you that one but um well i mean that's a totally asinine standard to have this stuff anyway i mean when i was living my my standard is asinine the person that when i was living my standard is that the person that said there was one kid who was healthy in new york oh right died right i mean when i was living in brooklyn there were three children who died in car accidents in my neighborhood um one who was run over by a bus in the crosswalk and one who was hit by a drunk driver at the end of a dead end who was playing basketball in a neighborhood where they didn't have any parks. And wow, that's an interesting story. And no one no one locked down the streets over it.

I mean, of course, a child dying is terrible, but you are you are a fool if you think that children haven't been dying from things that are that you totally accept for granted way before covid for your whole life. Right. I mean, it's just it's just a ridiculous state. Like when Cuomo got up and said, I asked for it by saying there was there you can't find one. So, yeah, I mean, I don't I wouldn't make the statement that you that you made because I don't I mean, in principle, you could probably find something wrong with the health of problems with the numbers. But if you take the numbers at face value, it looks like people who are younger, BMI is the overwhelming driver. Whereas people who get older and people who have a lot of other problems, then BMI becomes less and less important. So an 85-year-old does not need to be overweight to die of COVID like a 35-year-old does. In the under 40 crowd, the BMI is a huge driver and it just becomes less important when someone has severe asthma or is a kidney transplant person or is 85 years old or other things that

also drive the risk. And it's just because being old is a risk factor, being male is a risk factor, being obese is a risk factor, having severe untreated lung problems is a risk factor, having immunosuppression problems as a risk factor. And the more risk factors you pile on, the less necessary it becomes to have any given one of them. But when you're talking about relatively decently healthy 30-year-olds, they're over what the BMI is just being obese is just overwhelmingly the most common one of those risk factors they're likely to have. They're not going to you can't have a 35 year old who's 85.

So that's off the table. And you can't drink soda pop for 50 years if you're 30 years old, meaning that an 85 year old is more cumulative damage. Yeah. Age is just a correlate. They're 50. There's obviously the obvious factor, which I think you're saying. If my son falls down a flight of stairs, it's a viral TikTok video that's funny. If Chris Master John falls down the stairs, it's a life-altering injury. If my mom falls down the stairs, she's dead. This has nothing to do with what their vitamins are, what they eat. This is just age. Like there's no one who can fight back against those those that but if you're 85 years old no

you can fight back against that because your your bone density is dependent on your nutrition but okay okay you win um i still like my story yeah no i get your i get your point and i agree with it that it's it's you it's a it's a cop-out to just say it's age it's just that it's such a yeah i mean it's like saying the passage of time is responsible for anything uh actually what happened during that time but when the studies first came out in china very very early studies the people who were dying if i remember correctly the vast vast majority were men who were 65 and older who had been smoking for 30 years or more. The second and distant second were the people who lived with them, their wives.

I remember seeing that study and I'm like, yeah, no fuck. And then they, and then of course all the papers like the New York times were like, Hey, this, this affects old people.

I'm like, you can't say this affects old people. That's just a correlate. That's a correlate. Yeah. The mortality rate in Italy was real high too. And it was, they were very populated by smokers and the mortality rate in italy was real high too and it was they were very populated by smokers

and the mortality wave in the first wave of new york city was real high when we had executive orders sending infected people into the nursing homes oh yeah 40 of the people died in care facilities and then i looked up on google and the average age of someone in a care facility pre-covid was 13.4 months or seven months. I'm like, how the, like, yeah, I mean, I, there's a lot of, there's a lot of things there, right. To like, in a sense, being in a long-term care facility is sort of representative of your family abandoning you. Um, I mean, if you're 50 years old and you're in a care facility, something, but you've either been in a motorcycle accident or your Twinkie habit started. You were a Mountain Dew baby.

I think there's a lot of things going on in the background there. People have very small families now. But my grandparents had eight kids and have 45 grandchildren. And now my grandmother has numerous great grandchildren. But, um, so when my grandparents like couldn't really take care of their house anymore, uh, my family, my family had bought back in the eighties, my family bought, uh, 60 acres of land. And, um, and so they, you know, were able to just sort of like of like take a building that they had built off their house and make it an apartment for them. And so and our family is closely networked enough that people can visit my grandparents a lot.

And so I can definitely see that when my grandfather died at 94, I think he was a few years ago. I can see how my grandmother's mental quality really started. She had signs of dementia going back earlier, but it really started declining a lot when my grandfather died. But I think it accelerated again a lot during COVID because our family was probably the people visiting her dropped by half. Um, but you know, if she was in a long-term care facility, I feel like she would have died a long time ago because it's mainly the social connections that are keeping her alive. And I'm, I'm not trying to, I'm, I know that there's necessity and all kinds of things that I'm not trying to bash people that

send their, you know, we, we were equipped to not send my grandparents into a long-term care facility in ways that other people might not be. But it's still a fact that being abandoned to – it's kind of a form of abandonment, and I think it plays a role in that decreased life expectancy. I'll say it. But man, with the COVID lockdowns – It's fucked up. It's fucked up leaving old people alone.

It's fucked up. But what's up. It's fucked up. People alone. But what's real fucked up is was there was there no was there no specialist in end of life care who was consulted about what it would be like to spend the last year of your life alone with no one touching you or kissing you for it. I, I, I was anyone consulted about that? I mean, that's just seems grotesque and human. Um, on a personal note, you said that you, you'd put on some weight. Weren't you scared? Like, didn't COVID make you just want to like start fasting like i mean you know what's going on here weren't you scared how did you let yourself put on weight i'm like i'm i'm not judging for it i'm curious like actually i'm a i'm a covid og so i i had covid first day of symptoms february 1st 2020 and uh and so by the time I had any ability to think about COVID, I had already had it. But it was complicated. I mean, life was kind of totally turned upside down for me. And there

were other things going on in my life that kind of collided with it. And my perspective was I was just under so much stress that I was deliberately allowing myself to gain some weight as an effort to be more protective of my psychological stress. And I think that was rational, but I think I was too overwhelmed to properly keep all those things in check. I think I was so focused on just how to survive. And I mentioned I'm not independently wealthy, so I didn't really have the emergency fund that I should have had going into it, nor did I anticipate that dramatic and rapid of a change of life. So I just, I wasn't prepared for it. And I,

and I don't think that I, I think some of the things, the ways I coped in it with it were necessary and, and others were maladaptive and it, and it took me some time to figure out how to recover from it. How you're, you're a hust a hustler like i mean that in the positive sense not like hustler like you're tricking people you're a hustler in terms of like you're not easy to get a hold of you're busy as shit from your instagram

i can tell and yet you're not beholden to it at all um what what what part is that inaccurate i mean like like like you have a lot of irons in the fire i'm busy yeah yeah like i'm on my grind yep yeah yeah yeah okay that's even better you're on you're on you're you're on your grind you're grinding it's the same with me like i got a podcast i'm raising my kids i'm doing programming i'm like you know like i'm like um have you always been like that uh well i mean i haven't always had a newspaper as a little kid i guess i've i guess that part of me has always been there but i haven't always been i haven't always had my purpose congealed in a narrow way. So I think what I've been hustling towards has been a little bit all over the place at times. But I am the guy who went to college

when I was 16 and who utterly hates school and yet started college in 1998 and graduated with my PhD in 2012. And so spent a lot of time that I didn't need to in school and then went on and became a professor. So I guess you could pick any period there and you could say, well, maybe I wasn't putting my effort into the most productive area, but I was, I was certainly working pretty hard. Do you ever get concerned that like you were on this mission? Um, people, some, some people who are close to me are critical of this. Like I was on this mission, you know, really pumping the, the, my, the my my narrative was no sugar no refined carbohydrates really and then now i've like like i'm driving down the street and like i'm trying

to hit other people on the road now like i'm trying to hit the fascist i'm trying to hit the blm guys i'm trying to hit like like anyone who do you ever feel like maybe like you would be more potent if you would and i see this happening to you i see it happening to paul saladino i see it happening to you know i could tons of people now where like maybe like you should have just stayed on like vitamins 101 and like you really now instead of like maybe broadening your scope of things that are are you talking about covid stuff or yeah like i see with the kairi rally and i'm like oh yeah and the shit don't get me. I love that shit that you're doing. But like, part of me is, is like, maybe there's people who like

disagree with him who then aren't going to hear his message. And they're going to, that's so important about what his real mission is, is, is, is, is nutrition. Okay. So first of all, I think it's completely and totally naive to believe that this is all about the vaccine and that if everyone complies it's going to go away and we're going to go back to normal and get vitamins and minerals the normal talk is great anyone anyone who thinks that is totally sleepwalking and has not been paying attention because um you know if you like if you go back, rewind to 2008. Great year. That is when there was mass acceleration of the militarization of federal bureaucracies.

That is when the Rossum Food Co-op got raided with guns pointed out, guns drawn. Go to Google Images and search Rossum raid guns, and you'll see they were raided with guns drawn over raw milk. And then fast forward one year where a lot of stuff that people say now is, oh, it's a conspiracy theory that they want to microchip us. In 2009, during, I think it was swine flu. Sometimes I mess up swine and bird flu. Anyway, back in 2009, that's when Massachusetts, my home state, passed forced quarantining laws. That's when Verichip was making implantable microchips that would detect whether you had swine flu and whether you got vaccinated for it. No one wanted them, but there were people on, I think it was Good Morning America, who got their GPS tracking chip implanted and were saying how

great it was. And they were making one for medical and dental records. And the USDA was making the National Animal Identification System to track infectious disease spread by mandating that all farmers, no matter how small, were responsible for RFID tagging every single animal on their farm. And they were saying it was voluntary, but then in Texas, they started rolling it out, fining farmers $1,000 a day if they didn't, at their own expense, RFID tag all their chickens. So if you had seven chickens and you sold as a side hustle, sold a couple dozen eggs a week, you were now responsible for buying all this radio frequency ID tagging for your chickens and they'd find you out of business.

Wow. Was this the test for humans? Was that the test for humans? Is that what you're implying? No, that's- First do it on animals and then if it works, do it on humans, well, I'm just telling you the facts, right? Okay. Imputing motivations is something else. But at the exact same time that the USDA was rolling out the NIS, the National Animal Identification System, that is when Verichip was making implantable microchips for humans. And that's also when schools, some schools started stepping up, you know, school IDs is, is, is not a, is something that goes way back, but there were some schools around that time period also that started with safety officer could scan their thing hanging from their neck and say, oh, you're supposed to be in that class. And it became very, if you were not paying attention at all, if you didn't at that point say, you know, clearly they are trying to get the next generation ready for everyone to have implanted microchips that will track everything they do. I mean, it was just so obvious. They were making and selling the technology. They were advertising it. They were trying to mandate it for animals. They were trying to mandate it for school kids. And they were doing it in all the little areas where they thought people would

have the least blowback. But the farmers had insane blowback because the small farmers would all gone out of business over this stuff because it was expensive technology. And so if you have five chickens, it's nuts. And of course, farmers are conservative, generally speaking. And then it also turned out that swine flu wasn't killing anyone. So it just wasn't a very good model to get mass microchipping. And so I look at the stuff that they're doing now and this is relatively tame compared to what they were trying to do back then. But anyway, they were, and that's also when I was in grad school, it's also when the, it used to be, if you were doing, so my grad school lab book was, did vitamin E was a major part of our research.

And so it formerly, if you want to do a vitamin E study, you just had to fill out the IRB form, which is the human ethics approval. But in 2008, the FDA made a ruling saying that if you wanted to study a vitamin or mineral, you had to fill out and you, uh, you had to fill out an investigation of a new drug form. an investigation of a new drug form. And so I was like, interesting. This is obviously the beginning precedent to them treating vitamin and mineral supplements the same way that they treat drugs. And the obvious product of doing that is that, and this is true of many places in Europe, for example, supplements are very expensive and they don't have anywhere near the selection that we have in the United States. Even in Canada, there's supplements that I use that are like, oh, we're not allowed to buy that in Canada. and minerals and herbs will be regulated like drugs. They will be extremely expensive. They will be, you know, the profits will go to the big pharma that will, you know,

big pharma will buy out the vitamin and mineral manufacturers and it will just become an arm of, of big pharma. And, um, and, and we won't have the freedom to choose on those things. And so that's not that long ago. And if you think when this is over, if they were able to do this with vaccine passports, if you don't think that they're then going to come for the stuff they were coming for 10 years ago and go after your raw milk and your raw honey and your... I mean, it got so bad during the late 2000s that this guy, David Gumpert, wrote a book about it called Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Food Rights. And there were towns, municipalities that were declaring themselves independent of the federal regulatory bodies. It was like a revolution of food freedom was brewing. And then they rolled it back, right? And so it's like back in the 1770s,

when people were like, we're going to start making an independent Congress. And if Britain said, all right, whatever, we'll get rid of the taxes. And then it went away for... It's like that. They realized that there was a food freedom revolution brewing. It's like that. They realized that there was a food freedom revolution brewing and they were like, okay, let's chill out. And then they went away for five or 10 years and now they're back. Yeah. And you are utterly deluded if you think that let's just comply with the vaccine passport, this will all go away. I have no words for how stupid that is that is the direct lead into oh it worked over the injectable well we can certainly go after the raw milk again no one's gonna bat an eye if we go start you know raiding all these farmers with guns drawn and then

taking their milk and pour it out in the trash hey um what trips me out also is whenever people say that and i have friends in canada who believe this oh let's just get the injection so everything can go back to normal and my question for them is is uh how does it go back to normal when everyone has the injection now we have a whole society with people who have the injection and who the fuck is the control group if everyone has the injection that scares the shit out of me too. There's, there's nothing normal about having to show your papers in order to get indoors. Something normal about it. Someone said, uh, there's a question here for you. Ask, ask him about the FDA banning the sale of NAC. I don't even know what that is. So I don't, yeah. And NAC is N-acetylcysteine. I looked into it a little bit and I, and I,

I hesitate to be, to act as the expert on it because I don't look into it too deeply. But it looked to me like they're not banning it per se, but they're just going to... And actually, this relates to what I was saying before. I think they're going to put the manufacturers through a whole bunch of paperwork hassle in order to keep selling it. And I think that that hasn't happened yet. And so Amazon stopped selling it. And so I think it's being misinterpreted to say they're banning it. But I think what they're doing is saying, this has to be treated more like a drug. And so you actually need to fill out all this extra paperwork. I don't think they're going

to make it prescription, but I think they're just going to make it a real pain in the ass to sell it. And I, and I, those, these are all obviously the precedents being laid down slowly and steadily to ultimately treat all supplements as drugs. Someone here has another question. Finishing up my PhD this semester, wondering how the transition from academia to entrepreneurship was for Chris. Before you answer that, I want to, I want to, by the way, I have a hard stop in 10 minutes. Okay. Thank you. There was a time in my life many, many years ago where I was on this marijuana message board and I would go around and film people's indoor grow operations. I don't know what year this was. Let's say 2000 or 2005 or whatever, 2010. I don't know. And then I would come back home and I would edit all the

grow rooms for the people's grow rooms and I'd put them together. And then I would sell the DVDs like on eBay or on Craigslist or wherever. And I would say, learn how to grow and study these five grow rooms. And basically, and then someone would send me 30 bucks and I would just burn it on my DVD burner and sell it. And I fancied myself as sort of an expert and just grow room stuff, even though I didn't even smoke weed at the time, I was just fascinated by indoor growing. I still don't smoke weed. And my, my, my thought, my thought is, is this when it comes to, um, uh, Chris, uh, master John, he is just a smarter version of that. He basically, what, what, when you ask about his transition from academia to entrepreneurship, I'd like to emphasize that this dude has an extreme, extreme fucking interest, um, and, and, and in, in his field.

And he's basically just, he's, um, and that's where the entrepreneurship comes from. I think it's, it's out of necessity, not out of, um, desire. He, he, he wants to, he wants to know stuff that's not out there and he wants to share it. The artist in him wants to share it. So, so go on, feel free to answer that question. Finishing up my PhD this semester, wondering how the transition from academia to entrepreneurship was for Chris. So I think the transition straight from a PhD would be difficult, especially the way I did it. So I was blogging from way back and I was keeping an email newsletter from way back. And so I basically had 10 years under my belt building an email list with never intending to monetize it, but just because that's what I was doing. And so I had about 10,000 people on my email list by the time that I decided I was going

to quit my job. And I was also relatively decently known in the paleosphere and stuff like that. But I quit my job with no business plan. I figured that I might have to cash in my retirement account to pay my rent. And I wound up selling consulting packages to people who are on my email list. But I don't think that I would have been able to do that very easily if I didn't have 10 years of accidental accumulation of an audience. And so I think it might be... Um, and so I think it, it might, you know, it might be, you could take a lot of different approaches. You might want to, uh, have a day job and build a business slowly, or you might want to find a partner to do something that, you know, where you can pull in some funding and

make something or, or whatever. I think those are probably your two options, but I think it would be kind of hard to, if you don't have an audience already, it takes some time to build one. So do you have a girlfriend? I don't now. Not at the moment. That's another thing between you and Paul. Paul Saladino, eczema and no girlfriend.

You get like, well, I was I was in a time. Oh, and you just got out recently. Fairly recently, a few months ago, yeah. Well, I hope that was a smooth transition for you. It was a transition, but... Do any of the CrossFit gyms in New York City allow... Do you know unvaccinated people in there? I don't know off the top of my head, but there's an Instagram page, ProFreedomEats, that's mainly based on restaurants.

But they have a gyms highlight that has some of the gyms that are not complying with the mandate. But I don't know if it includes CrossFit or not. I know you have to go in a couple minutes. On your Instagram, there's a ton of posts um about magnesium a ton you there's so much information can you in a nutshell tell me why why you're so focused on magnesium or did i just oh i'm i'm not it's just a part of a longer series that is is just taking uh cutting up uh chapters from the middle of my upcoming book. And so it's, it's magnesium doesn't really get any more attention than the others do. It's just that it's currently in the magnesium section.

So it's just coming out in order. But I mean, magnesium is super important, but it's, it's not any more or less important than any of the other vitamins and minerals. It's not any more or less important than any of the other vitamins and minerals. Whatever you're most deficient in is what you need the most. Okay. I thought that might have been it. It's just the chapter that I happened to open it. And finally, last thing, is there any advice you would give to people?

When I got COVID, the two things I basically started doing is I started taking 2,000 milligrams of vitamin C every couple hours with a small glass of water, taking like 10 to 20,000 a day. And I was taking 5 to 10,000, whatever the metric is, of vitamin D. And it basically did nothing to me. And I took no precautions. Me and my family still all slept in the same bed and all that shit. Is there any advice you would give to people? Was that smart that I took the vitamin C and vitamin D? Yeah, that's smart.

I actually have a, I actually have a protocol that you can get at Chris Masterjohn, phd.com slash COVID guide. The gist of it is. I just signed up for that newsletter, by the way. Thank you. Cool. The gist of it is keep your vitamin D 50 to 60 nanograms per milliliter going into it um there's a probably if you get it uh a hot sort of loading dose of 100 000 iu one or two days and then 10 000 iu for the rest of it would be good i I like to balance that with the other fat-soluble vitamins, so vitamin A at a half to one ratio, a couple hundred micrograms of vitamin K2 and 20 IU of

vitamin E. And then I do think zinc acetate lozenges are very good for having antiviral effects in the mouth and throat. I like Life Extension Zinc Acetate Enhanced Zinc Acetate Lozenges. There's no clinical trials on them, but personal experience and some case reports suggest they're really good. There's a trial from Bangladesh with 1% povidone iodine rinse, which is an antiseptic used by medical and dental people, four times a day in the nose, mouth, throat, and a couple drops in the eyes, 88% reduced the risk of death. Wow. Looks like a gram a day of 600 milligrams of EPA and DHA, the omega-3 fatty acids look quite good. Nine or 10 milligrams of melatonin a night

before bed. And some other things, There's a handful of other things, but I think the biggest one would be 3.2 grams of L-arginine in two divided doses, so 1.6 grams a day, if and when you suffer from respiratory distress, appears to be exceedingly dramatically effective at hastening the improvement in respiratory distress. God, I want to say something totally inappropriate about arginine as it do you know what it is no anytime i have to use erections or herpes yeah yeah yeah anytime anytime i've taken arginine it's like crazy oh so people get my penis becomes like hard like like uh like a the erection thing a railroad

steak yeah like like holy shit yeah arginine's crazy that's interesting i mean it suggests that your nitric oxide production is limited by your arginine intake oh well i just i don't know if i like the way you worded that but i'm just gonna say it doubles down on the uh density of my penis how's that interesting um i do i uh i don't like i don't like you just describing anything about me with the word limited in it i do i do wonder whether there is um whether there is a uh a trade-off between uh erection and orgasm with higher nitric oxide levels you mean in terms of the quality or you mean in the quality i i don't know i i wonder or like the sperm count or what do you mean by orgasm um i wonder if it would take longer but possibly be less intense even yeah yeah and it also take yeah it also takes longer it's like a performance enhancing drug for the penis i feel like

yeah but you're right yeah i think i never thought of it like that because it's like it's like splicing hairs about the quality of the orgasm i mean sort of i mean like it's like from being a 10 to like a 15 or a 15 down to a 10. There could be a dose response to where like too much would make that trade off not so great. And you know, the right dose would make it perfect or something like that, you know? Right. Right. Well, damn. Well, that's, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a, that's a fun supplement. I highly recommend to dabble in it now and again. Chris, thank you so much. I have two pages of notes, and I don't even think we got to

10% of it, of the questions I really wanted to ask you about health and shit. But thank you so much. I would love that. And thank you for fighting the fight. Thank you for being honest. Thank you for having integrity. Yeah yeah it's really something else awesome