The Sevan Podcast - #293 - Justin Cotler, intro with Nick Rodriguez & Jason Khalipa

Episode Date: February 8, 2022

(00:00) Nick Rodriguez & Jason Khalipa. (28:35) Justin Cotler. Justin Cotler is the founder and head coach for Underdogs Athletics. The organization has become highly popular in the last year or so as a result of the performances of their most recognizable athletes: Kari Pierce, Danielle Brandon, and Bethany Shadburne. In the off-season, our friend Ricky Garard also joined the Underdogs pack. In another lifetime, Justin was an R&B singer. After time in the music industry, he made his move to fitness and hasn't looked back. "The Sevan Podcast" T-Shirts https://asrx.com/collections/the-real-sevan-podcast-collection Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/therealsevanpodcast/ Watch this episode https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC59b5GwfJN9HY7uhhCW-ACw/videos?view=2&live_view=503 Support the show Partners: https://cahormones.com/ - CODE "SEVAN" FOR FREE CONSULTATION https://www.paperstcoffee.com/ - THE COFFEE I DRINK! https://asrx.com/collections/the-real... - OUR TSHIRTS ... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Call 1-866-531-2600 or visit connectsontario.ca. Please play responsibly. Bam. We're live. I was looking down. Good morning guys uh i i screwed up i thought this was going to be a um 7 30 a.m podcast and uh it is a 7 30 a.m podcast with justin kotler of underdogs Athletic Athletics Underdogs Athletics but before we start we got Nicky Rodriguez

for 30 minutes which is pretty awesome he should be on here any minute and we have Jason Kleba also I wonder if maybe the link I sent them doesn't work it's not it's very unlike Jason to be to be late let me see I'll invite again copy to

bam i feel like i can't drink out of my small paper cups anymore that was a good time to come now's a good time to come on the show started uh and um The show started. And you guys know who Kalipa is and you guys know who Nikki Rodriguez is. Nikki Rodriguez has been on the show twice before. He's the member of the B team. Oh, we have a different setting for Nikki. There he is. Same wardrobe, different setting.

There you go. There is. Name wardrobe, different setting. Hey, there we go. There's Jason. Oh boy. Uh, what's, what's up, Nikki?

Is your Jason? Good morning. Nikki is, is your bathroom being used as someone taking a shit? Why, why have you changed locations, buddy? No,

nobody's home. So I figured I'd bring you guys to the kitchen. Are you naked under there? I'm always naked. In all honesty, how often throughout the rest of the day do you wear a shirt, you think? When it's warm out, not much.

When I was in Puerto Rico, I'd go days without wearing a shirt. I'd wake up, walk my dog shirtless, go to practice, train shirtless, go lift shirtless at my buddy's gym, and that was it. That's the reason to move to Hawaii. So all you have to do is live in board shorts. Not a bad gig.

Nicky, is any part of you like, hey, motherfucker, I've been on your show twice, and now you're texting me and DMing me and getting me on a third time? What are you doing? No, no. I mean, if i didn't want to come on i'll just keep ignoring you so perfect i mean the show is like the show is like um sesame

street it sucks because i don't tell the guests this once you've been on once like you have to keep coming on and um you well it's a little different than sesame street sesame street is homophobic sexist and racist this show is completely open and welcome to everyone and loves everyone um but you're like big bird and jason's like snuffleupagus and susan has a little more of a permanent role he's like like like one of the fixtures like the light post i appreciate you um coming on as a regular and big birds you know know, as a kid, I loved it when big word, you know, would like, come on, you'd be like, Oh shit, there he is. Yeah. Okay.

Nikki's like, what the fuck is Siobhan talking about? Hey, go ahead, Jason. Oh, did you see it? Dude, our video is actually performing pretty well. The, the, the, we have a, that YouTube video that's out. It, uh, it has like 60,000 views in five days. It's a, I think, you know what, what I, uh, I don't know if you saw, but there was some, there was a, a lot of love and a few haters on that one, but it, but it, but it's doing, it's performing well. Yeah. Are the haters about you, you jason yeah there's a few haters like oh jason didn't know what a rear naked choke was and he's no purple belt i'm like whoa easy there buddy

i know exactly what a rear naked is nikki was showing me a different variation of it right or a slight adjustment i should say and then number two of course i'm gonna look like a white belt going against him like easy to watch it you know the guy's massive and obviously talented and uh anyways just those keyboard warriors who who really anyways there was a few haters on there okay they haven't started making shirts about what you said did they no no shirts oh okay well i'm gonna have you beat go ahead nikki what were you gonna say uh i was just saying can i let them hurt your feelings man they're They're keyboard warriors for sure. Oh, dude, they're not hurting my feelings. It's all good.

I like it that it has 60,000 views and it's kind of a second run of this. This was already played on Flow Grappling. We've all seen this and then it comes out two months later and it's still killing it on YouTube, which is a testament to how good the video is, right? Yeah, for sure. You know, it's uncomfortable for me to say your name nikki because because you're you're you're like such a big man and like nikki's like my little brother and like you're no you're no nikki it's more like a more like a big kid to be honest i'm only i consider consider myself a bit of a child yeah you have you and you have that

big kid vibe but like nikki's just such a um i mean it works for you it's like misleading right like your opponent's like oh i'm going up against nikki oh fuck he dropped the y it's nick i think my i was always nick and i think my high school coach started calling me Nikki Rod and just kind of stuck, you know, all the hoodies and stuff throughout competing. And when I was just kind of a flow with Nikki, Nikki Rod. It's good. When you, I have a friend who Jason probably doesn't remember who rolled with Jason a couple of years ago when Jason was a white belt.

And he said, Jason was dangerous. Just your typical white belt, but like worse because he was so fucking strong and i don't roll but there's this phenomenon with white belts where they can be dangerous they can come in there and they just like did you get any of that from jason like oh fuck like yeah this is this guy's fucking dangerous i need to just smash him jason's definitely a superior athlete i mean honestly we rolled for like 40 minutes and uh you know he did not stop you know didn't really get tired it's really interesting uh to see a guy like as with as much muscle mass as jason has

has to have that really uh you know long-term endurance so yeah he's good for sure oh man well thank you thank you um go ahead jason no i was just gonna say nick so talk to me about so getting ready for 80 cc's i am curious like you come off um was it who's number one right who's number one so tell me a little bit about like where do you think from a point scoring perspective or a, um, event? Like, I think the sport of jujitsu, um, is going through some like, um, growth and changes. And I think they're trying to find out what is the best for the athletes. What's the best for the spectators and how do you blend those two? So you have a really great match.

It's exciting. You know, where do you think the sport's going to go in terms of like points versus time limit versus submission only? I'm curious because, you know, as an athlete, you must look at it one way. I imagine as a spectator, you look at it differently, but maybe they both line somewhere. line because you have you have scenarios where all right you can you can put up you can put up a points right like i guess wrestling you know the college wrestling ncaa is a good example like where you can win by points or you can win by tech fall or pin um and then jujitsu we have either tournaments where it's sub only or tournaments where you can win by sub and or points um i feel like it's hard to say what's more entertaining because it really comes down to the athletes to where if the guy's game plan your opponent's game plan is to just like get it advantage and maybe get a takedown or get on top and then stay away it makes for a boring match

if you have two guys that are going for the submission constantly, then you usually have an exciting match where somebody wins via submission. I prefer personally a 15-minute sub-only match, but I feel like the shorter the match, the more entertaining it's going to be because the faster paced it's going to be because the faster pace it's going to be if you have 15 minutes to scrap you typically have to pace yourself so you have you know gas in the tank at the at the last five minutes um if you only have a six minute minute match or eight minute match um you can pretty much go balls to the wall for for eight minutes and you know you're not worried about getting you know overly exhausted um i think that would make for more entertaining as a viewer friendly match, but ultimately it comes down to the opponent, to the athletes.

You guys know who the Rotolos are? Rotolo Brothers? Those guys are, no matter what platform they're competing on, they're going to be entertaining. They're fast-paced. They're submission hunters. I think it comes down to the overall mentality of the sport. As a whole, are guys trying to win by points via IBJJF platform

or are guys trying to win by submission via flow grappling or typically ADCC guys who went for subs as well? First of all, flow grappling, I purchased the $149 package for the year for one reason and one reason only and you're looking at him nikki rodriguez and i and i bet you a lot of the listeners also uh did the exact same um i i i think that that i'm a huge ufc fan and the fact that you guys do 15 minute a 15 minute fight but it's still three rounds with no break and just the intercom comes over and just says who's winning like after every round and you're still going that's some fucking like that's gangster it's

like it's pretty crazy as the viewer to hear that and be like oh shit nicky lost the first round oh shit and and when in the elder cruise fight when they said you were winning the second round does that mean you're winning the whole thing or does that just mean you won the second round and now he's won the first round and we're going to the third? It just means that the judges are favoring a certain person. No, it's cumulative. So when they said in the second round, at the 10-minute mark when they said Nicky Rodriguez, it was cumulative. You are now in the lead. No.

Oh, one round each. It was like a – it's more of a 1-1. So if they favor him the first one, they favor me the second one. And it's like a 1-1. So if they favor him the first one, they favor me the second one, and it's like a 1-1. But even – there's no definitive – if there's no point scored, it's hard to define who are they favoring and why. It's like if you win or lose a close match in the Jets world, it's – I mean, it kind of is what it is, but the real win is the submission. You sub a guy, you show dominance, you put him down, you get on top of him,

you pass his guard and stuff like that. That's a win. A win is not like we just push each other around and nothing happens. That's not really entertaining for anybody. What do you think about that match that you had with Elder? Are you shitting on it? Are you shitting on those two guys? Yeah, I mean, it's really – I think I was a little unfocused maybe going into that. I made a lot of mistakes in the sense of my wrestling.

I didn't set my shots up. I was just kind of taking shots. I was focused too much on the hand fighting and getting the guy tired which that worked um but it also like so when we're hand fighting i'm just pulling his head i'm dragging him around the mat right he's on his toes and i'm pulling him pulling him and it looks like to the judges that he's pushing me backwards when i'm just pulling his head along the ground and uh you know consistently draw the match um there's some learning that has to go on in the in the sport as far as like the people that are reffing like they have to

understand you know what wrestling is what what hand fighting is who's how how to determine who's winning the hand fight and uh i don't honestly a guy like elder is uh should be an easy win for me so the fact that it was even close Is definitely not good So I got some stuff to work on And Yeah I'm just in preparation Constantly Do you walk off and kick something after that?

Are you like pissed? How does Nicky Rose No I just analyze Why Didn't my strategy work? Also, like in a sport, I mean, in gifs, you got to have more than one strategy. Like I was like, all right, I'm just going to go out there, wrestle this guy, get on top of him and, you know, hunt for the submission from there. But it's like, all right, what if you can't take a down?

What do you do that? I didn't really like plan for a backup plan like I usually do. And, yeah, you just got to be prepared in more than one aspect. Now, Nicky, question for you. So prior to this, you were working with Danaher for quite a while, right? Like a couple of years, right? Yeah. So before matches and stuff, I'm sure he would be very, very focused on what's the approach. I mean, I've watched him live in action, as obviously you have, and he's very in the moment on the match.

And then he'll refresh what is going on in his head after the match. He'll be able to regurgitate it. It's quite amazing. Without someone like that in your corner now, who is doing the coaching for you in terms of like your preparation for the match and the actual match execution so honestly um even when i was training with john the preparation was definitely all up to me john would pretty much run me through a warm-up like the day before or the morning of and uh, you know, maybe he'd ask me, like, you know, what my goal was. But there was no, like, specific, you should do this, you should do that.

It was more like a mental coach. Like, I feel like he would do a good job of boosting my confidence before I went out there, which would have a huge part in my game. I feel like, like, regardless of my, uh, strategy, if I just have like overwhelming confidence, that kind of goes a long way, um, in how I attack matches. Um, I think in my preparation for this, I gotta, I gotta weigh a lot in training with just taking shots and taking people down as opposed to setting them up properly like I usually do and then going in and going for the takedown.

John has done a lot for me in the grappling world, taught me a ton, and I've learned a bunch from him. But honestly, ultimately, it's always kind of been up to me. It's like, all right, I have to train this today. I have to, in practice, I would be the one to say all right i'm gonna focus on laybacks today all right i'm gonna focus on wrestling today um so it's definitely always been a sense of independence um i'd say more than anything john definitely uh coached us in the mental aspect like we would be i feel like because he was the one guy that in the room that was just like he was always kind of watching us

we would work harder in practice to kind of try to please him to say have him say like oh good job nikki rod like shit like that would kind of help the room as a whole kind of push a little bit harder and give us that mental edge and i think uh i think that's something that we have to figure out as a team a b team how to work into our game plan yeah and then and then, and then Siobhan, I just have one more thing for you. No, go take it, take it. I'm good. So when you're, when you're rolling no gi, right, there's, there's some different schools of thought. One school of thought would be, be as slippery as humanly possible, right? No shirt, short shorts, get sweaty, make yourself really difficult to, to grab and connect with. Then you have guys who want to get into things like ankle

locks, like whatever they may be. And they actually want to have some level of, um, something sticky or something to be on. Right. And I noticed in this match, right, you're wearing a rash guard. A lot of times you're not wearing a rash guard. So I'm curious from how much does that play a role in terms of like wearing a rash guard, no rash guard, being able to get into ankle locks and things like that, or, or be able to hold position better because you're wearing one versus not. I mean, do you take that in consideration before a match and then decide what you want to do with that competitor? Yeah.

So, um, previously I was competing a lot shirtless just because I didn't have much technique and I was like, you know, I could really only rely on my, uhown ability. But because I'm more technically sound, I understand the game much more. I prefer to have a rash guard on because I feel as if the rash guard gives me a little bit extra grip. And if you're going for the submission, if you're going to sub the guy, typically a little bit more grip and traction is going to be beneficial. So yeah, I think now when I compete, I definitely, I'll put a rash card on but uh i don't know something about being shirtless like when i compete that i also feel like more elusive and just harder to control and i think even like it puts like a puts me in a

different mental state when i'm like when i'm shirtless and i just have like my shorts on i'm like i'm free i'm like i'm i feel like I'm ready for battle, you know? I don't know. There's a big mental aspect to competing that you have to figure out how to peak. I mean, I'm sure you understand this with CrossFit, but like how to peak in the right moment so you can get the most out of your competition. You know the guy in the UFC, the 171-pound guy, he fights both classes. He's from Russia.

Has Matt Chimenev. Do you know who I'm talking about? Yeah, who are you talking about? He picked up the last dude he was fighting, carried him over to the edge where Dana was, and threw him on the ground and was like, look, Dana, like, is that, are we seeing just insane mental? I mean, obviously, he's a good fighter.

You know, he's been in four fights, and he's only been punched like three times, and he's just grabbing dudes and just doing horrible shit to them. Is that the mental state you're talking about? I mean, he goes in the ring like he's fucking Godzilla. Yeah, yeah. You have to – it's like Tyson said it best. He was like, when I'm practicing, I'm a man, but when I'm competing, I'm God.

So you have to put yourself on a pedestal. And I think Hazmat has the opportunity to, to win a belt. I think, I think just his fights have been a tremendous mismatches so far. So I'm excited. I'm excited to see a guy like that fight somebody of his caliber. Hazmat, uh, Nikki is in Austin, Texas. Um, I think that would video would go viral. You should go over there. The name of his company is B team. I just go ahead and knock on the door they're super duper welcoming um but you have

to be advanced they don't have any beginner classes hazmat but you should go over there and uh please film that nikki i would love to see yeah that'll be on youtube for sure knock knock knock nikki this is hazmat you say i'm i'm i'm only fighting easy guys oh my goodness dude hey how's it been uh you've been uh rolling a little bit and working out with uh tim kennedy how's that been uh tim be honest he's an old dude who has nothing for you be honest nikki uh i'm gonna address his uh our crossfit style workouts first right because we do some EMOM stuff and some very difficult high-intensity workouts. It surprised me how good of a shape he's in. Oh, yeah.

Like, you know, he's definitely a superior athlete. Like, I can see his work ethic. I can see... Yeah, the first time we worked out together, we did what's called an acid bath. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, so it was extremely hard.

And it was like, it was eye opening. Like, all right, there's a group of like five or six guys in this room that work equally as hard as I do and Tim does. So yeah, Tim's a very, very skilled mixed martial artist. And he enjoys the hard work. Like before I go to train with them he's a guy today to be fun and usually fun meets it's going to be insanely hard so i have to mentally prep to go over there you know but uh yeah tim's jits is really uh it's good it's tough but his

goal is more than subbing is to kill you so like he wants to get on top of him gouge your eyes out and shit like that so yeah i, he's been doing it forever. So, yeah, he's pretty good. And he's in insanely good shape. Like, he can go pretty hard for a very long time, like, whether we're talking CrossFit in the gym or grappling. And it's impressive to see because he's not, you know, he's not in his 20s anymore, man. The guy still gets it every day. Yeah.

When you roll with him, do you ever feel his glock in his shorts? Like're like hey dude you can't he keeps it on him for sure dude that guy when you think about someone that you wouldn't like a year or two ago his house got broken into and i remember putting up a video and i'm just thinking myself man that dude broke into the wrong house. This is a UFC fighter, you know, army, you know, he's all overseas all the time, special forces. I'm like, look at him, like worst guy to, you know, teach his combatives. But anyways, I thought that was cool that you're training with him. That's awesome, man. Yeah, he's a, he's an interesting guy. He's very positive, but he's got, as nice as he is, he's got a bit of a, he's got's an interesting guy he's very uh positive but he's got as nice as he is he's got a bit of uh

he's got like shark eyes you ever stare into a shark and they're just fucking soulless tim simpkins he's a bit soulless when he wants to be like like rattlesnake eyes like um oliver stone has those the director like yes now i see him in an interview i'm like what the fuck totally nice guy and great heart and does a lot for his people and community but man he fucking has that switch you can tell do you want to go at it with elder again and did you talk to him after the match uh yeah i asked for i asked for a rematch uh right after just because it wasn't my my best performance and a guy like that again i should be subbing that guy uh you know for their first five ten minutes so yeah it

would be good to go again and attack it uh with a different strategy um because i i am still learning you know the jujitsu world i've been here three years i'm evolving i'm you know i'm constantly constantly trying to you know learn new techniques and learn what i can do in competition, you know, preparation for ADCC. So yeah, I can plan on competing a bunch before ADCC in September and yeah, it's going to be fun. When you say sub him, you mean take his back and choke him until he feels like he's going to die and he taps out and says, that's exactly what I mean. Okay.

I mean, cause my mom watches the show and she might not know what subbing means and I just want her to have a distinct understanding.cha um and um is it friendly with him afterwards and should you be asking for a rematch right after the show like are you thinking clearly is is that something like you should have like some sort of rule like you don't ask for it like for three days or some shit uh well i did i did it like the morning after so it was like a 12 hour break or so okay but um so it's like a date you slept on it you slept with her and then you're like yeah let's go out again

there you go yeah that makes sense and is he game is he game I don't know they haven't responded I don't think he's yeah I think he wants that but yeah I mean whoever it is I just need to compete

more I've been out for a little bit who's next who's next I don't know who's next But, yeah, I mean, whoever it is, I just need to compete more. I've been out for a little bit. Who's next? Who's next? I don't know who's next. I gave my guys from Flow Grappling a bunch of names. It's hard to get heavyweight matches, guys my size. Usually, you know, guys want to come up, brown belts or younger black belts kind of will take matches with me.

The high up guys really don't like it. Flow Grappling, people have to be going there to – they must have seen a spike. Instead of the 12 people who normally watch, they must have had like 24 this time. No, I think they did pretty well actually. And like what the fuck is going on? They got to get you a match. We got to start building it. Have you done any any podcast after is this your first podcast you've done after or interview you've done cause I couldn't find any interviews

of you after the Elder Cruiser after that match yeah I mean I'll do interviews after I win but I try to fight depression after I lost so don't talk to anybody for a while yeah I wanted to get you on here just spewing venom like right away like totally take advantage of you in your weak emotional state

I think it's a good idea that you're getting some competition in Nick right away, like totally take advantage of you in your weak emotional state. I think it's a good idea that you're getting in some competition and Nikki, like, you know, getting ready for ADCCs. That's ultimately your kind of, that's, that's your version of the Olympics, you know, happens every two years. It's a bad-ass event. But getting in some more competition before that is the key. Cause ultimately you just want to build your confidence and get more competition exposure before that big day, you know? Cause like, well, you took silver to build your confidence and get more competition exposure before that big day. Because you took silver two years ago, right?

Almost three years now. Almost three years, yeah. So that's a big – yeah, man, I'm fired up to watch all the competition and then also ADCCs. I got to go out there in Vegas and go watch you guys throw down. It's going to be a lot of fun. Yeah, yeah yeah for sure i think i think you're right about the competing part because before adcc um of 2019 i had like i had like 30 or 40 matches in like six months prior to to adcc so like when i went on there i already had competition you know two weeks ago and then then a week before that so i was like i was acclimated you know i was completely uh in the zone and yeah there's just a kind of mental aspect or mentality that i have to hit and i have to peak at the right

time to kind of get the most out of my uh my grappling just some adjustments you know the big dude who's in the documentary with you i think he's from jersey he's one of your early coaches was he at the match with elder cruz what's his name is it gordon no it's it's. He's one of your early coaches. Was he at the match with Elder Cruz? What's his name? Is it Gordon? No, it's pre-Gordon. Oh, A. Regalbuto you're talking about. Yes, yes.

Was he there with you? No, no, he wasn't with me. He lives back in Jersey, but I'll see him occasionally. He does some commentary here and there on different events, so i see him around yeah are you still close with him yeah yeah we talk for sure and maybe you should bring him because in that documentary you're basically it i mean i'm being a little melodramatic but you're basically walking around that fucking event that adcc event like a lion and he just has you on a leash you know what i mean he's the only guy you're fucking talking to you basically don't want to deal like you deal with the cameras too much um and then basically he walks you over to the mat untethers you and then you just will pass

and then you come back and he takes you back puts you in your cage i mean maybe you need that dude around i feel like when i compete i almost don't see like other people or the audience i kind of just see the mat and the task ahead you know pretty pretty hyper focused on that day um do you have any issues coming back and um in facing your team when you come back like like like you let the family down at all oh yeah i mean the second you walk through the door if you lose it's like uh they're laughing at you and talking about you like oh it is like that wow they make it they make it uh so you like, Oh, it is like that. Wow. They make it, they make it, uh, so you don't want to lose again, you know? So for sure, for sure. It's a bit

painful going back in that room, painful and shameful. Uh, but I think that's necessary. I think, uh, you know, if your friends kind of, uh, are mean to you, it makes it easier if other people are mean to you. So, so it's not that you come in there and you're nicky rod and they all avoid eye contact with you it's you go in there and you open your locker and there's a box of tampons in there and it says these are for you nicky it's more like that that's exactly how it is at b-team holy shit that's good yeah no mercy that's great stuff um nicky jason do you have a final question before we let Mr. Nikki go? And man, I'm fired up to watch you throw down. Uh, I got to head back out to Austin and go see what's up at B team.

But, um, no, man, it's been great to see what you have going on online. And I'm glad our, uh, YouTube video is doing what is doing. And it's cool that you and, uh, honey were able to connect about, uh, you know, for your, um, for your supplements and, uh, and what you have going on there. That was cool for me to see that there were some connections between the bodybuilding world and what you have going on in jujitsu. So nah, man, just fired up, dude. And I think my question was really about, uh, I think, I think for me, you know, looking at jujitsu, it's so important to get that competition exposure because there's really nothing that mimics,

you know, about to go in there and battle than actually doing it. You know, like practice is cool. But, you know, when you're actually competing, it's a little bit of a different level. So I love the fact you want to get in some more matches before ADCC's and I will be watching. Yeah, I appreciate that, man. Thank you very much. And if you need to build your confidence, just come over to California and beat up on Jason. Yeah, if you need to build your confidence, come over here to Bay Area.

You'll be able to smash on somebody. Jason, Nicky, you guys are awesome. Thanks, dude. Thank you, Nicky. And I'll keep slipping into your jam, buddy. Thank you. See you, guys. See you.

And just like that, I'm like a fucking real show. There's just a show. Wow. Just like that. Look at that. That was fucking impressive joe rogan and howard stern had their dna removed shaken into a test tube mom turn this part off slapped into my mom my mom grew me i'm sorry to disappoint you guys though i don't have my shirt

off hey hey pop the top baby pop nowhere Nowhere near as cool as that, dude. No way. That's not happening. It's an egoless, enlightened Buddha man like myself. It's really weird when my ego gets activated. But someone texted me yesterday and said, holy shit, or maybe it was two days ago, you and Kotler are going to talk for four hours. And I'm like – I would fucking love that.

And I'm like, what the fuck are you talking about, Kotler? He's just some dude out in Vegas. And then I watched – Who was he? It's an affiliate owner. I tried – Was it Craigie, was it? Was it Craigie Howard?

No, no, not Craig Howard. Oh, okay. Not an affiliate owner outside of California. And then I started doing research on you, and I'm like, oh, shit. That's why they said that. Dude, you are like a dinosaur. You've been around. You were Pamanian's coach?

Yeah, dude. I was in your fucking gym. I know. That big fucking, the meathead gym, the crazy one. The rock. It was like a dream fucking yeah in new york and she had the whole gym to herself i went in there and filmed her in there there was no one in there i was still working for uh it was before i opened up my own place man and we were uh we were working out of that globo gym still working for people who

thought the world was flat you know we had to teach know, we had to teach a class. We had to teach a class at midnight. It was the only time they would let us do CrossFit. It was called Midnight Madness on Thursday nights. That was the only time. That's where we found Jessica. Hey, that gym was so hardcore. Now they have gyms where you have to get a shot from Pfizer to go in. This gym, you had to get a shot from someone.

And I had to take it in the butt. And let me tell you, like like the dumbbell started at 100 pounds in that fucking place that place was gnarly what was the rent at that place like 300 000 a month oh i don't fucking know so it was owned by uh that gym was owned by personal injury lawyers yes yes so let me tell you a quick story about that. So it was owned by personal injury lawyers. I started working. So, so right after Jessica, I started working with a, with another female athlete there who was a beast at the time. And I wasn't, so they got on my case because she wasn't officially a client, right? So it wasn't going through the gym.

We were, we were working together in CrossFit. didn't really understand crossfit but anyway i got pulled in by one of the personal injury lawyers and he said to me you know i said listen man i'm not taking money out of your pocket i'm not even taking money from her we're just working together you know blah blah blah blah and he said oh i know you're not taking money out of my pocket because if you were i'd cut your fucking throat that's the lawyer that's who i was working yeah that's who owned the gym hey was that dude was that dude juiced up were they juiced up lawyers they were just they were just very you know they were shady as fuck did they have like veins in their foreheads and shit one two i would say two out of the three did for

sure and they were sleeping with everybody and it was uh it was interesting if you're a lawyer and you're not taking steroids you're not doing it right and i mean that like you think i'm have you think i'm joking but kind of i'm not because that shit gives people such confidence and they start oozing like uh i guess it's like some sort of pheromone or something and uh they just take i mean if you're in the room with someone who's taking that shit right and is cool man it can make some incredible personalities very confident it was it was interesting what's up brian hey justin how you doing good i don't know what that conversation is but there's a couple lawyers that train at the gym and they always have great stories yeah i was i was working for uh i was

working for an interesting few lawyers when i first started coaching long time ago 12 years ago they owned a owned a gym personal injury lawyers they were pretty fucked up so yeah that's pretty hilarious for those of you just tuning in uh this is justin kotler on here justin is the founder and owner i'm guessing he would probably say with his wife or definitely my wife and his daughter also of underdogs um athletics is is the athletics also have an s it's two s's one on each yeah two s's yeah underdogs twister and um he has a quite quite the background he he quite the background. He does the stuff with that group, International Fitness League or something,

that's trying to basically get CrossFit to the Olympics or high-intensity training. He was a coach at the Grid League. But what's crazy is that he has literally been around forever. I was listening to your podcast with um the dude from england oh yeah from ireland peter for coffee pods and wads yeah i listened to that one and then i listened to the one with tommy and shawnee and i listened to another one one other by the way i got really fit while listening to you because i put the headphones on i get on the assault bike oh nice yes yes that's nasty it was with a lady it was with a lady from south africa oh yeah i did that one i felt like not too long after the games after the she she wanted to talk

all about the covid shit show yeah so yeah. I'm trying to think who that is. Short hair. Yeah. Yeah, she was cool. I honestly can't remember the name of that. Is she involved with their semifinal at all? I don't think so. Okay.

Yeah. You guys had my boy on yesterday, Jedediah. Yeah. Do you train him? No, I just dig him. He's awesome. Yeah, he was pretty easy. He was cool. Yeah. Do you train him? No, I just dig him. He's awesome. Yeah, he was pretty easy. He was cool.

Yeah, he's a good dude. He's coming down in the open. He's coming down the last week of the open to throw down with us. He did it last year, too. He's just a really good dude. And you have DeLugos at your gym? Oh, yeah. I've been coaching Matty for several years now.

I love that dude. Please tell him I said hi. I will. I will. He doesn't know who I am, but I'd like to lure his ass on the show. No, he knows who you are. We need to get him on. I spoke with him at Waterpalooza, and he was a good guy.

You guys will love him, man. He's just awesome. He's such a good kid. He's getting some just due right now, which is nice to see. Do you have a drug policy with your athletes? Don't take them? drug policy with your athletes? Oh, don't take them.

We had, we had, we had been, we had been Bergeron. It seems a little closed minded of you, by the way. Oh, sorry. We had, what if I, what if I'm not going to compete? Can I take them then? Yeah. I mean, Cause we had been Bergeron on and he was like, yeah, none of the athletes do drugs. And I was like, well, and he was telling me about all these policies that he had in place. Yeah. I mean – who take this testosterone replacement therapy, which I don't know much about it, but I just think that that's just, it's all just steroids to me with no judgment, just performance enhancing drugs or like, like someone be like, your testosterone is low. And I'll be like, like,

how do you know? Like you haven't seen what happens in the morning when I wake up, you don't know. Okay. So, so it's, it's an unspoken, it's kind of an unspoken it's kind of an unspoken um and the reason why i ask is because i watched the podcast with you and sean and and tom shawnee tommy and the conversations around ricky i really like the way chase interviewed him it's fine it's not my style i'm glad i didn't have to do it i don't ever want to talk to anyone like that but there's a talking down piece that kind of fucking irritates me like people are talking down to him like he owes us something no i agree like how about fuck you i'll take what i want i mean i understand it's different with you you're his coach and you have a reputation but there's this piece like everyone's his daddy it's like hey like you ain't his daddy no not you but i mean the world

you know what i mean it's tough man it's hard for me to watch because he's such a good fucking dude he's awesome such a good dude you know like and i i appreciated the fact that like people were able to see that a bit when you when you had him on because he he kind of people loved him yeah because that's him i mean he's just he's funny i mean listen he's introverted and he's not he's not the most comfortable on camera but if you like warm him up and get him going he's he's hilarious man he's funny you know he's just a good dude you know and i love i love him because he's just he's he will run through a fucking wall for you. Like, it's unbelievable. You know, there's never an excuse.

There's just, he just is who he is. He's got that rugby mentality. He's tough as nails. But he's just, he's a good dude, man. He's funny. I really, you know, and I've always gotten along with his brother. I knew his brother well from Grid, you know. His brother played for San Francisco.

Yeah. Good dude. And I always got along well with benny um you know while i was coaching con and benny would hang out with us sometimes and stuff so it was it was cool you know and and um but it's been great i've really enjoyed ricky and i i agree with you man i i just uh i feel like now he paid he paid his dues he did his time and and more than enough let the fucking guy let him let him do his thing now you know how well how long was justin on before i got on here seven eight seconds oh um it was uh

what was the what was the like back and forth in terms of deciding whether he was going to stay in the u.s for a while or go back to australia dude he had a horrible time when he was here both of us caught covid on the on the flight back from dubai both of us were sick as shit he lost 10 pounds in a week then he you know i mean he was he was staying in uh in an extended stay here in vegas uh with uh drug dealers and prostitutes yeah yeah yeah oh yeah yeah when he was here it was not a good representation of of vegas at all um but nah come on it sounds perfect no it wasn't it wasn't i promise um you know he but i will say this like he wasn't able to get into any type of routine and he is a very routine oriented dude in the sense that like he has his family has his dogs he has his you know the beach he he goes mountain biking and he's a family man too he's got a mommy and daddy yeah and and you could

i could just tell you know and then when he went down to to water palooza and he got sick again um he was ready to get the fuck out of the states like he was ready to roll and i i was i was like cool you know because he looked so good at dubai and honestly watching him prepare for waterpalooza in the back of my head i was like this guy is not the same guy that i just watched a couple weeks ago i was telling you brian i was like to me he got to waterpalooza and uh and caught uh caught a you know whatever was, a stomach bug of some kind. And it really like, it helped me because I had been hinting like, dude, you're not yourself right now. This doesn't make sense.

You know what I mean? Like you haven't competed in four years. The trolls are out there. You're going to get fucking annihilated if you go out there and finish 18th. Like, it's just, you just came off of Dubai. Let's go back. And let's face it. Colton mertens would have smoked his ass that week that week uh i might have smoked his ass that way but no no but you know from the from the outside perspective prior to that happening at guadalupalooza you know everything about him moving to the u.s getting into a new environment having a you know very good coach that's has a good head on his shoulders and can

help steer him in the right direction seemed like it was going to be a super positive thing for him and made a lot of sense. But talking to him about it, hearing you talk about it, and then even just the little snippets we get here and there on Instagram since he's been back there, it seems pretty obvious to me he's in the right place right now. I think he is. And i would generally say that the that being here and being in the environment is a great thing for for most athletes you know but there are going to be some where they just they just have this thing at home man and he he does he's got his support system he's you know they're with his girlfriend and benny and and that gym i

mean man they fucking love him and they give give him so much good vibes, you know? And to me, it was a no-brainer. He was here. I could tell he was out of his element. And now that he's back there, he's thriving again. I mean, I'd say he's now back to where he was prior to Guadalupalooza. It took a little while after COVID and losing weight and stuff. But I expect that, you know, over the next several months you're going to

just see him get better and better and better and i'm i can't wait for i can't wait for torian it's going to be well yeah and i mean and that's ultimately where he's gotta he's gotta be ready because yeah even with um you know con porter going on a team this year and i think there may be one or other two guys from the top 10 that won't compete it's still a really tough region to qualify in absolutely no question about it and i also feel like generally you see the results from quarter finals now it's tough to tell right i mean this year we'll have we'll be able to compare a little bit better with the with the events like two events in each one but but historically right like in regionals australia the numbers were always

phenomenal the guys were great they tend to do perform a little bit better at those at those events than they do at the games historically but i mean they're until this last year well yeah baden was great i mean crowd royce tough royce is really good yeah it's good man but i'm gonna tell you right now i i i'm you know i don't want to sound cocky or anything i'm confident as fuck about ricky i think we're gonna have a great season i really do yeah brian i love seeing you brian oh oh thank you it's been a while that's where i really love seeing you i know i had kind of upstaging justin i was so excited like i was like but now like i just keep staring at you sorry no dude i don't blame you that beard just keeps getting better and better brian we missed the

beard in that photo behind it's getting fucking good justin loves the picture hold that thought brian i just got one thing to say about justin and con porter you could you could just kill all the men on the planet and just seed the women on the planet with the two of them. It would be – can you imagine that? Just grab them. Have you had con on? Just have a God grab them and kind of squeeze their balls and just seed the whole planet with the remaining women. Have you had con on?

No, I got to. I'm kind of intimidated by him because he's so handsome. I'm serious. He's a lot to look at. I'm going to tell you right now. It will be about 10 minutes and you will fall you will fall in love yeah it's already it's already like it's gonna be weird yeah oh he's i think he's saying that's the problem he's already in love with i should be like tongue hanging out of my mouth he's dope yeah he's a he's a specimen

he's like our aussie son yeah yeah that's cool sorry brian you were you gonna brian i have a question for you real quick i i heard when um you guys when when you and justin just now we're talking about semi-finals with two workouts any like that are set and you had a grin on your face like you already have an opinion about that is that is that a different show or is there something you want to share with us? No. I just – You like this thing? No, I like being really supportive of CrossFit when I can, but I also think that it's healthy for someone to be not necessarily critical

but questioning of some of the decisions they make as well. I'm in the same boat, Brian. There's been a lot of decisions this last month that I have some questions about. And I have, you know, and I don't know why they're I don't know the answers because I haven't had a chance to talk to anyone or hear from anyone about them. Their answers are just very vanilla. They're like, oh, these are the plans. This is what we're doing.

But there's no there's nothing behind it of substance. I'm sure that there are conversations of substance going on at the home office or whatever they're calling it but the decisions don't always make sense to me so i'm trying to understand them better okay and that's kind of like part of me wants to be like what the fuck do you care it's their business but that's kind of our job that's what we do in the ecosystem we're like flies on shit we're like all right you guys will respond no i mean i i started doing this because i saw there was an opportunity basically to get uh more recognition for for athletes in the sport that were working really hard and i felt it was really top heavy and then um not you know and i think that i've had some success in that regard of creating more recognition from larger pool of

athletes or at least i've been a part of that and I want to keep doing it. But, um, you know, the biggest thing for me is I don't like the amount of time that is going to pass between when the first people and the last people qualify for the games. And we talked about that. Yeah.

Yeah. Do you know what he's referencing, Justin? Yeah, for sure. And last year, last year we were last, um, West coast and we had no time to prepare for the games i mean essentially you're coming off of what i thought was the most

difficult um semi-final for sure um especially when they added the rock run in 117 degree weather um and then uh and we you know we had to take a good solid week to recover. And then we had three weeks straight ahead until the game. So it was a challenge. And you didn't have to do the last chance qualifier. There were people that came out of that competition and had to do the last chance qualifier. And none of them made it through from the West Coast last chance qualifiers. But if they had, think about even that turnaround.

And it's going to be that way for someone again this year. And that's why I said, you know, like the two workouts is cool and we can do that comparison. But I would rather just see them all the same. And then, you know, you can take everyone who didn't make it, you can pick your last chance qualifiers from that, and you at least give everyone at the bare minimum five weeks to prepare. Yeah, it would be about five weeks which is still not great but but brian aren't you like hey two of the workouts are

going to be the same at all of them we're halfway there does that well at all or no no no when that announcement came out that it was in an email uh the one of the hopper emails that crossfit's been sending out i reposted it and i said all i don't see anything negative here so i thought everything in that email was a positive step in the right direction maybe it wasn't the full step but at least it was what i thought and think is a move in the right direction oh good um when did you when you in going i'm going to go like all the way back i think it was 2010 so those of you who don't know jessica pamanamanian, she was a games athlete. What was the best she ever did?

Fourth. Crazy. Crazy that you can get fourth and no one can know who you are. Do you remember who got third for the men in 2010? I think Graham took first. Rich took second.

Matt Chan. Come on. Speeler? Sam took first. Rich took second. Yeah. Matt Chan. Come on. Nope. Spieler? Oh, yeah. That year I got into a huge fight with Dave because I accused Dave of loading the games for Spieler. That – I was like, hey, why didn't you just call it the Spieler games?

Because I just didn't think that he had any business being on the podium that it had to have been rigged. And then right behind him were Matt Chan and Miko Salo so yeah wow miko couldn't do a double under or else he would two years in a row yeah i couldn't do double unders man i remember i was there watching like what you can't do doubles what's going on oh yeah has anything like that happened in the last couple years has that has anything happened like like in the last couple years has that has anything happened like like at the last year's games was anyone there where like you're like oh shit that person can't do that yeah i mean cleaning the first barbell of event seven was not happening for for hayley yeah but that was not that wasn't necessarily as surprising yeah wow wow wow wow and that's and that's not a programming issue right

no not everyone else could do it so right because there becomes a point when it's a programming issue if let's say it was the inverse right only one person did it then you guys would be blaming the programmer but since it's only one person couldn't do it you blame the athlete some some there's some like that i guess i mean I mean, you can think, you know, obviously everyone knows in 2015, there were only 12 of 40 women that can do even one pegboard that year, but, but the next year that most of them are, all of them could at least do one. So sometimes you have to do that to push the thing forward, but no, that,

this wasn't, that wasn't a programming error. None of those are programming errors. Back in the day. I mean, you, that, that 2010't a programming error. None of those were programming errors. Back in the day, I mean, that 2010 games, right? That Amanda, you had, I mean, Annie Thorstotter didn't get through the first round of muscle-ups and came in second. I mean, Krista Clever fucking crushed it, but she crushed everything. But Annie, I don't think Annie was able to do one strict handstand push-up. Not one. I think she just sat there for however long that was. That was that. For the men, it was the ring handstand push-up not one i think she sat there for however long that was that was that uh for the men it was the ring handstand push-ups that year but for the women it was strict and you had very few women who could do strict handstand push-ups i mean it's crazy

the evolution's fucking nuts but just thinking about that back then what it's pushed people to do but yeah we haven't seen anything like that since the pegboard, really, where people just kind of stood around and watched. How about that championship mindset? There's people who, if that would have happened to them at the games, I guess, would devastate them. And then look at Annie. The worst possible nightmare in your CrossFit Games thought process has happened to her not being able to do something and yet last year she took second it's it's it's nuts she's a cyborg bro yeah and and really at this point i and i love tia beyond love to you like kudos to you i got

one negative thing but i mean i mean annie could have won the crossfit games this year fucking tia tested positive for COVID. If she wouldn't have paid. Well, she did test positive. She just paid someone off to say negative. What do you think about that? Do you think that they should have just let Carrie and Bethany compete? Like, so what if they have COVID?

Hell yeah. Like, what the fuck is – what's your problem? I mean, I do. I mean, I kind of fall into the camp of – Good. I think so too. So what? What do you care if they compete? But I will tell you this.

Bethany was sick. She was really sick. Carrie, I think probably her symptoms weren't nearly as bad. I don't think she would have been 100%. And I don't think she would have performed extremely well. But she could have gotten through it. I mean she's also tough as fucking nails. You know what I so um not to say bethany isn't bethany was sick sick though bethany had high fever and body chills and you know the whole nine i mean she was

sick um you know but i think as we as we you know as we move forward here right i mean i think ultimately it's going to be the you know it's going to be treated like the flu and you're going to see people pull like michael jordan you know, performances out of their ass. Like when he was in the finals and, you know, still be able to do stuff, but it's different. CrossFit's different. It's not a two hour event. You're talking about, you know, four or five days of just beating the fuck out of yourself. And, you know, that's very challenging with something like COVID.

I mean, it knocked me on my ass, man. Like, I'm not going to lie to you. Three days where I had a hundred and three fever and I felt like, you know, I wanted someone to stick a knife in my eyeball. That's how bad I had a migraine. It was so bad, you know? So it's, it, but some people, the people who are asymptomatic or, you know, it's not a big deal. I don't, to me, it's like at this point. Yeah. It seems, it seems like it should be up to the athlete and the coach to make the decision whether they're able to compete or not. I mean, I always think back to what was like 2014 regionals

with Rich Froning, and there was, he was clearly had some sort of head cold or something going on, and he was just competing through it, and he'd go back in the warm-up area, and you'd see him hacking up and, you know, with a runny nose and everything else, and then he would get ready for the next event and go back out there and that was his decision not the governing body of crossfit right just to pull it out so i don't know that's not that's my opinion on it but matthew they might spread it to the other athletes but matthew you don't it's sorry jerk myself off again not really that sorry um do you understand that's how you ask questions

people that like you're not like everyone else is like she had covet of course she's out you don't accept that you don't accept that that's not how you ask questions that's not how you live your life you go the opposite way you say why couldn't she compete well they said she had covet so what what does that mean you can't run that way because there's a brick wall. And if you do, you're going to hit it with your face. COVID, it's a thought. It's an idea. It's a virus.

But don't let it stop you from asking questions about why couldn't Bethany and Carrie compete. It's a totally valid question. You have all these answers and reasons why they can't that are prepared. None of those are real because it might spread. Everyone knows the games was a super spreader event. Everyone. Everyone knows Waterpalooza was a super spreader event oh we all know it so what so what i'm not saying that i'm tongue-in-cheek people every the vast majority of people i that i know who went to the games came

home with covid the vast majority of people i know who went to waterpalooza came home with covid that that's where human beings that's what happens that this is what we do and and those of you who are locked inside have an an extremely high rate of not only getting it but dying but but i'll get off my justin what are uh are you are you are you still working with carrie uh carrie is carrie's taking the year off um so carrie pops in when she wants to uh she she'll she'll cherry pick right now. She'll cherry pick her workouts. But Carrie's helping me out a little bit. We had a great discussion like two weeks ago.

She basically has made herself available for any of the athletes here at the Underdogs camp that want to meet with her talk about mindset talk about preparation talk about habits she's going to write some articles for underdogs athletics uh about competition and competition prep and you know some various other things i mean she's busy as shit with power apps no doubt about it but um carrie's like family now you know i mean she moved out here to vegas with us you know so it's she's she's part of the family and and i think um for right now i think she's happy what she's doing uh but i would not be surprised if we see her back on the competition floor in some capacity i would assume probably something like teams um you know maybe next year or or the year after something like that brian the three podcasts I listened to, each one, he lets out a little bit,

slip out a little bit more. You can hear that him and Carrie are talking. She's definitely, it's funny. This is the first time I heard, I sense now from reading through the lines that she could even come back individually. It's very clear as you listen to podcasts that she's coming back team,

or at least they're talking about it. But now I'm even sensing a little, something even weirder coming out of Justin. She's chomping at the bit in there she's she's still crushing people dude i'm gonna tell you right now she walks in the gym and we haven't seen her for three four days and we'll you know we'll we'll do a workout and carry just fucking you know coming and annihilate people i mean it's crazy two things one is i specifically asked the question of are you working with her because i and i didn't necessarily mean as a

coach athlete i thought she might be just you know helping you in some regard she does yes second is that thing that you just said right there is something that people should pay attention to if you want to crush the open you only have to be able to crush one workout a week but if she showed up for wadapalooza training how she right now, I think that the first day would go well and we'll see how the rest of the weekend goes. She's still pretty fit. I think she would have done well at a lot of Palooza. I think, listen, she is, she's been competing since she was five years old. That girl knows nothing but fucking competing. Like she, you know, even her retired, I, you know, she's eating better, sleeping better, uh, still training in her garage gym. You know, she's still doing things

that, that 99.9% of the world can't do. I'd say the biggest thing right now is the fact that she's, she's not lifting as heavy, right. As she has been. So she would probably get her ass handed to her a little bit on the strength events. Um, but honestly, that was never her, her, her bag anyway. You know what I mean? She was always going to have to manage that type of an event. Um, but you give her high skill, you give her, you know, anything with grit and she would still do really well on it. You know, she's just that type of person was she too small if she was if she was a 10 pounds bigger human being would she would she have won the game would be a whole different creature i don't know that it was a weight issue i not necessarily way but you know i mean like if she was too like stature an inch and a

half taller and then spread 10 pounds through that is she like oh shit tia's got a problem um i don't know i you know uh listen tia is i don't know what you can say about tia t is you know once in a generation um you know good with that cyborg we all believe it's human that's what you say about to you yeah i mean it's crazy um but an inch and a half two inches three inches taller on events you know that had rowing or or wall balls or some of those things that you know were historically really a big challenge for her sure it would help but then you could say well what about you know how would that take away from her gymnastics or handstand pushups, right? She's got shorter levers, so she dominated on that stuff.

I think there's a give and take there, man. I don't know that it would have mattered. I mean I think she – I mean I think if you go down the history of CrossFit, she's currently – I'm not saying she'll end that way. But she's currently the top American woman I think. And I would say she's probably the the top american woman i i think and i i would say she's she's probably top six or seven of all time right if you throw holty in there um and and and carry very very similar careers um and obviously you've got the the mount rushmore um of those well of the three, right?

I mean, Tia, then Annie and Katrin, however you want to put them. Brian would geek out on this stuff. But yeah, Carrie, I would, you know, she's got to be maybe sixth. Brian, I would say, sixth or seventh.

I have, yeah, Tia, Annie, Katrin, probably Cara Saunders, Sam Briggs, and then Holta and Carrie. Right. There you go. So you could argue six or seven. What was the girl's name out of New York from 2009? People thought she was going to win the games in 2009. She had a really bad run. Was she actually at the games?

She was at the games. She threw a major temper tantrum after the run. Everyone thought she was going to win the game. She was super jacked and yoked out of New York. We did a piece on her. Did she compete in the 2008 games? She never came back again. I think she did.

She was a bodybuilder, gymnast. She trained at the Black Box with Jen Hunter. Do you know who I'm talking about? Did she finish at the black box with jen hunter that's um do you know i'm talking about did she did you finish in the top 10 either of those years or was she just like totally bomb i think she was supposed to annihilate the games in 2009 and after the second event or whatever that run event was well there was heather bergeron who was who was really good and then there was lauren plumet yeah these girls would like, this girl was like on a whole different league than them. Like on a whole nother planet. And we did a piece on her.

I'm trying to remember her name. Her name started with a G. Jillian Mouncey. Yes. Did you know her? She got third in 2008. I don't even see her in 2009. I think she dropped out after the second event.

She was so fucking angry that they put a long one. Yeah, she finished 59th in that year. So she probably just didn't get one event and stuff. So the thing with Julia Munsey is she would do Fran and she would beat everyone. And she was a gymnast. And then she wouldn't be lying on the ground. I'm going to tie this to Carrie Pierce here real quick. And Annie used to do this too, and maybe she does a little bit, there is a setup, a Zen tea party, a kind of like a transition that gymnasts do in the beginning of every move.

And at the end of every move, you know, it might be like this, or do you know what part of that hurt Carrie because that she was too eloquent, that she was too perfect, that she was too formal, like it was perfection? No, I don't think so. And missing a piece of recklessness? No. I don't think so. You know what I'm saying? Yes, I do. Like because of that gymnastic perfection?

Yeah. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. There's the virtuosity in every single event, right? Yes. This isn't a dig, of course. This is just like. No. And that's one of the things actually that that Carrie and I, when we first started working together, like, you know, it was competition is very different, right, than being in a class or teaching. I mean, ultimately, right, we always talk about riding a line, right,

between intensity and efficiency. And at the games, you know, sometimes you got to get dirty, you know. Like it's about getting the work done. And I think by the end, Kerry was, was of the mindset that this is by any means necessary. Like, however, I have to be somebody, I don't, I don't give a rat's ass what it looks like. Um, ultimately it's now, of course we we've seen obviously in the past that, that those who tend to be more efficient obviously you know over four or five days end up doing better most of the time um but we've still had some people who've won the

games who are not great movers i'm gonna tell you right now like if you go back to watch it i'm not gonna call people out but there are people who won the games who are not not great movers and breaks so i love sam she's but but there you go nice justin there's nobody whose heart is bigger right like like there's nobody whose grit is i mean that girl can handle more pain than more pain in her fucking pinky than i can in my whole body let's be honest all right and and that's carrie too carrie has a has a little bit of, but also with the virtuosity of all those gymnastics events. But I don't think Carrie gets enough credit for how much better she got at all the monostructural events that she sucked at for years. And then before you know it, like, holy shit, Carrie's pretty good at running now.

Like, holy shit, Carrie's not bad on the assault bike now. Oh, Carrie's pretty good at running now. Like, holy shit, Carrie's not bad on the assault bike now. Oh, Carrie's pretty good at this. I mean, you know, I think ultimately, you know, I'm not sure she got enough credit for that. I feel like everybody just talked about how good she was at handstand pushups. And it wasn't until like at Atlanta where they were like, holy shit, she actually can run too. Like that she actually, you know, that she got that just due.

But to be honest with you, if you know anything about it, and I mean, you know, hindsight's 20-20. But if you watch the games in 2019 where Carrie fell off the rings, she fell off the rings because we weren't fucking playing for for fifth or sixth or seventh she fell off the rings because we were trying to win the fucking games like we were at least going for a second she was lined up for it perfectly and we made a strategic decision to to um to shorten her her reps on uh on uh on to, to rings. And it was working until the last rep where she, you know, her hip flexors and, and her, and her grip went out and she fell and we fucking went

for it and we got burned. You know, what are you going to, what are you going to say at the end? She finished fifth, you know, she still was top American, but, uh, but there's no doubt in my mind, she finishes that workout. It doesn't fall and get the wind knocked out of her and get a fucking concussion. She finished a second that year. And then she's second and third in back-to-back years. There's no doubt in my mind. But sometimes that's what happens, man. Sometimes you don't play for a second. You've got to fucking go for it.

And that's what we did that year. And that's it then. I mean, no, no, that's awesome. And it's something that I don't think a lot of people have the insight to. Even at the games, obviously, everyone's amazing, but there's different tiers of athletes. And once you get into it a couple of days, you're very aware as a coach or athlete or team or whatever of who's very close to you. And you have to sometimes take those risks and it's a calculated risk. And you understand that if you fly, if you do it perfectly, there's a huge payoff. Understand that if you do it perfectly, there's a huge payoff. And if you just miss barely, then it's potentially costly, but you have to take the risk sometimes.

When we met for the first time, or I wouldn't say the first time, we were already friends. It's a funny story. Carrie, I played with one of Carrie's teammates. I didn't play. I coached one of Carrie's teammates at Michigan. Who was that? teammates uh i i didn't play i coached one of carrie's teammates at michigan who is that who is that her name was lindsey lindsey maneri or lindsey borden she was on crossfit adrenaline they had a kick-ass team my team dynamics and crossfit adrenaline a couple years would were battling like in that in for the podium at the games but anyway i picked lindsey i signed lindsey she was the first athlete that we signed for the DC Brawlers in the grid. She was the best grid athlete that I had ever been around. She was the bodyweight specialist of the year in 2014, that first year. She was a freaking monster. But anyway, Lindsey introduced Carrie to me. When Carrie came to New York, it was 2014. Carrie was just getting into CrossFit. She'd been

doing CrossFit for three months. She was like, you got to go see Justin. So Carrie came to see me and I started programming for Carrie in 2014. Three weeks after I started programming for her, I still have the fucking email she sent me that said, Justin, I'm so sorry, but the owners of the gym that I work at say that I can't follow your programming. I have to follow their programming or they're going to fire me because she's working as a coach. So she had to get off of my programming. That was a CrossFit gym that did that. Which CrossFit gym was that? I'm not going to. Normally normally i wouldn't ask you or put you in that situation but that's it i don't know if that's ethically you know dude that happened a lot trust me back then

especially because they wanted you know they wanted to plug like they saw that they had a fucking diamond in the rough right so they wanted to be like she's following our programming you want to be like carrie pierce come in and take class and you're going to be. So anyway, I think that still happens. I don't actually. Yes, I think it does. You're going to have some gym owners. You're going to have some, you know, that just can't deal.

You know, they're so insecure that they can't, you know what I mean? Like they can't deal with that. But anyway. Okay. Sorry. Go anyway, let me finish. So Carrie and I started at that point. But then, you know, she had to stop. But we were friends like for the next couple of years. She would always come out to Dynamics whenever she was prepping for the games because we had all the fun toys, right? Like we had all the yolks and the this and the that.

Like because we had a lot of athletes that were training out of there that went to the games. We had teams that went to the games, et cetera. So finally, when she came to me in 2018 and she was like, listen, I want to make a change. I've been wanting to make a change for a while. And I only want you to coach me. And I didn't know if I was going to do it, to be honest with you. I just had our first kid. My wife and I just had our first kid.

I was really busy with the gym. We were really busy at the time. And I didn't know if I wanted to. I had been coaching either teams or individuals a long time. And I really in my head was like, I'm probably going to take the year and not coach anybody. But she took me out to dinner. She said, I want you to coach me. And I said, okay. I said, well, what are your goals? What do you want to do? And she just looked at me right in the fucking eyes. And she said, I want to be the next American woman that makes it on the podium. That's all I want is to make it. This was 2015. You said 18. This was 18. Sorry. Yeah. And, and right there, I was like, okay, I'm in like, there's no doubt. Like I'm, I'm doing this, you know. But that was our goal.

Like, that was it. We were going for broke, you know. It was the podium or bust. And she, you know, that year in 19, like, if you remember, her, Jamie Green, and Holti were battling for that second and third spot. Like, they were battling. They were battling back and forth. And we were going for it, man. And that's, you know, I love, I will always say like, I, I obviously didn't want her to

fall, but the, the conviction, you know, that we had prior to that event. And that was just Carrie. Like she was, you know, it was like, listen, this is what I want from my career. I don't want people to remember me for finishing fourth or fifth. Like I to make the fucking podium that's what i want to do why did she choose you what did she see justin like why didn't she go with one of the name brand why didn't she go to the mayhem empire to comp train or i mean there's tons of fucking really good i i didn't i mean granted i i mean i didn't know who you were in 2018. What did you have on your resume? Who did you have?

How had you proven yourself already? I mean, you had Pamanian in 2010. I could have trained my mom to win the games. Yeah, for sure. That's not a dig, Jessica. I love you, by the way. No, so, I mean, she knew me from coaching. So we had had some pretty good teams at teams at dynamics and then she knew me very well

from the grid league, which obviously, you know, we were, we, we've, you know, we were dominant, you know what I mean? The DC brawlers, that was the name of your team. And you guys were, you guys were a good team. We lost one, we lost one match in three years. Wow. Yeah. We won two championships. We lost, we won, we lost one match in three years and,. Yeah. We won two championships. We lost one match in three years.

And I carry, you know, I think, and also I had coached Khan at that time. Okay. But honestly, I was much more of a team coach at that specific time. And, but, you know, we had just developed this, this trust that, you know, and she, But we had just developed this trust. And she saw kind of how I coached the teams, especially in grid. Because she played for Boston in the grid league. So she played a year for the Boston Iron.

And then I think we had just developed this friendship. She was really close with my wife. And I think that mattered to her that it was somebody that she trusted and someone that she, you know, felt good about as far as just, you know, values and this and that. And I don't know, man, I, I, I I'm lucky. I will say that I feel very fortunate about it because, you know, none of this shit would happen without Carrie. There's no doubt about it. How many years younger is your wife than you? She's nine years younger than me. Do you ever get confused as her father? No.

No, no. Not at all. All right. Just a second. I'm a few months away from – sometimes when I go out, when my beard gets really long, I go out with my mom. And I'm now her husband. And my kids are our grandkids. Well, my kids are younger than yours, bro. I'm a couple years younger than you. What are you, 48? I'm now her husband and my kids are our grandkids. Well, my kids are younger than yours, bro.

I'm a couple of years younger than you. What are you, 48? I'm 49. Yeah, so I'm a couple of years younger than you. And because of your gray, you probably look a little bit older than you are, especially if someone can't see you move or see your body. Well, if I go really long, yeah. And then your wife's like a 10. Yeah, so it's kind of – you're in a weird situation.

And then I got a five-year-old. You're a really good-looking duck next to a swan. And a duck is just a duck no matter what. I'll take it. Yeah, yeah. But there's nice ducks. It's just you never be a swan. Nice ducks.

Yeah. Yeah. Nice ducks. You know, you wouldn't be surprised if her boyfriend dropped her off with an 81 sticker on his motorcycle and a Hells Angels jacket, Daniel Brandon, at the same gym. And yet it seems like those girls, like, truly coexist. Yeah, they do. They coexist well. Is that you? Daniel's an awesome man.

Happy birthday, D. Happy birthday, Daniel. Yeah, it was a birthday yesterday. is it me i don't know i i i think it's the whole package man i think it's the entire environment i think it's me i think it's my wife i think it's my kids i think it's carrie i think it's you know the whole crew that we have that it is extremely uh you know competitive but at the same time, extremely understanding of the value that each person brings to the table. And that's not to say that Danielle hasn't had her moments. She'll admit that.

I mean, Danielle is volatile. Danielle is emotional. But Danielle is, I will tell you right now, and I have said this since I started working with Danielle, there are two women in the world, two women in the world right now, who have absolutely no weaknesses. And Danielle Brandon is one of them. I will say it until I'm blue in the fucking face. where Danielle needs to catch up. And she knows, you know, is we're still working on leveling out the emotions over a weekend. Danielle can do anything.

She's the most talented athlete I've ever worked with. And it's, it's absolutely crazy, you know, to, to see what she can do in the gym. But, you know, she's, like I said, I mean, you know, she's a roller coaster of emotions. And if we, you know, and it's getting better, I see it, it's getting better. Like, once it gets to that point, she is an athlete who can win the CrossFit Games, you know, and I won't say that about a lot of people, but she is an athlete who can win the game saying not saying she will, but she is an athlete who can win the game. Not saying she will, but she is an athlete who can. FanDuel Casino's exclusive live dealer studio has your chance at the number one feeling, winning, which beats even the 27th best feeling, saying I do. Who wants this last parachute? I do.

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they're like, wow, that athlete's really good, but there are some limitations here or there's some limitations here and there are some things maybe even physically or anatomically we're never going to be able

to get to that point. Daniella doesn't have any of those. But man. Is there a hierarchy with all the different athletes and ask the same question to ben bergeron we had him on and what i mean by that is there actual positions where you're like hey so and so is the person kind of the leader of the uh the group here during the training days or is it not talked about and and if it's not talked about is it happening organically do you see that? And is that something that you're having to curate and manage and constantly make sure that everybody's playing nice?

Yeah, I would I would say, I mean, as far as athletes were concerned, Kerry, for certain, was the leader. Now, I think with Kerry out of the gym that, you know, I would probably say I'm the leader now. Danielle and Bethany certainly are whom everybody looks up to. They haven't been in the gym a ton together until now. Bethany's finally back. After Water Palooza, she went to Texas for a little while. Went to go see her boyfriend in California. Danielle was gone for a little while. But now to go see her boyfriend in California. Um, you know, Danielle was gone for a little while, um, but now they're back in the gym and, and, you know, I think those two,

essentially everybody seems to, um, you know, look to those two and, and, and obviously it, but it's great, man. I'm telling you, it's, it's, it's amazing to see that many competitive athletes in an environment, um, who, who get along extremely well in the gym and out of the gym, you know, we'll, we'll have barbecues over here at the house and everybody fucking loves each other. You know what I mean? It's really cool. Now, that's not to say they don't want to, you know,

kick the shit out of each other every day. You know, it gets competitive. No, trust me. Yesterday, Ali Scud smoked this skill session that we did. And, you know, she beat Danielle. And, you know, Danielle, you can tell, you know she beat danielle and you know danielle you can tell her fucking you know her head was about to explode but i love it you know i mean i love to see that because it's a healthy competitor that's not to say danielle didn't do she she

crushed it too it's just that ali destroyed it and and it was it's beautiful to see they just level up each other all the time you know it's it's a it's a cool thing to see i want to go back to uh what matt's question is, but I want to say one other thing. I don't know shit about the athletic side about what you said about her being, having no weakness and putting her kind of on this tier with Tia, which every, I promise you that everyone wants to believe. And the reason why everyone wants to believe that. And I'll tell you this,

I do know this for a fact there's very few athletes today that can win the game crossfit games one time and launch into superstardom there's very few i cannot think of any actually off the top of my head if danielle brandon wins the crossfit they would need to win at least two or three times now the bar's been set so fucking high like no like no no one knows who the fuck sam rings is like let's just face it she's she's not she's not on the cover of all these women's fitness magazines and all this you got to win a lot now if danielle brandon wins the crossfit game she's gonna fucking launch into

the fucking stratosphere like she won it five times it's gonna be she's got it i agree she's hot she's fucking built like like a fucking centaur with a woman's body on it. It's like – that's the horse thing, right? The centaur? Yeah, she's on a whole – she wins and flips the crowd off with a smile, and everyone's like, yeah, we'll take it. We'll take the fucking from you. I mean like she's fucking – it's fucking Josh Bridges incarnate. It's like –

She's got it. The female Josh Bridges. Yeah, it's fucking – it's nuts. And she's got the female josh bridges yeah it's fucking it's it's nuts and um she's real as shit and uh you know once we had her on the podcast she's just like yeah i don't trust anyone you're just like i mean it's just like uh so so kudos to her i mean it would be um she also doesn't have to win the crossfit games which a lot of people i mean which a lot of people can't say and still launch into superstardom.

So she has – We've talked about that. She's juggling a lot. She's juggling a lot. Yeah. We've talked about that, though. And what I don't want to see because – It would suck if she went the route – sorry. It would suck if she went the route of the fake titties and the Botox and the lip injections.

I don't think she's going to do that. I would fucking – for me, I mean, I i'm just completely selfish that would bum me out no i don't think she's gonna do that right i don't think so either but i'm just saying what we talk about is and i'm not hating on those people i just don't want to see her do that well yeah and we we talk about the fact that hey d like you know you you're now well we say you're now a crossfit celeb right like you've you've taken off to the next level and, you know, especially from these last games, et cetera. But, you know, in 10 years, right, when you look back at your career, what I want is I want you to be a CrossFit celeb because you were on the podium multiple times. Not just because, you know, you're attractive and you flipped off the crowd and you're kind of the bad girl.

And we talk about that because it would be very easy for her to be like, hey, I'm going to do kind of the bare minimum. I'm going to finish between 10th and 20th, stay relevant and finish between 10th and 20th every year. But that's enough that people are still going to see me. I'm going to get a shit ton of sponsors. I'm going to make a shit ton of money because they're going to pay me but i'll tell you what like she has the talent to be on that podium perennially and that's as a coach you see that and you're just like well let's fucking do it you know what i mean like let's that's all like let's do it it's not good enough for me that you're a crossfit celeb like i i want i want it

to be performance based you know so i i can see her also being like kalipa and katrin too in the sense that i never saw katrin say no to anyone katrin would lose a fucking event and fucking some little kid would wave and she'd fucking go over and sign their shirt same with kalipa like just endless giving to the crowd and then when they went away they went away but they knew that the role was bigger than just performing when you're out there like they gave themselves i love those athletes by the way those of you who don't do that you're gonna regret it in hindsight you are going to regret it when you're when the sun sets on your career that you didn't give that you didn't go out of your way to see every kid before you walked

off this podium because no one's going to give a shit and you can really affect people yeah josh too josh too she and my my daughter are like hilarious they're they're so funny they're they're good buds but they're literally like they they like clash it's awesome i love it yeah my daughter's competitive as fuck she's five years old she's a freak athlete and so it's cool in the gym because she'll wait how old your daughter she's five oh um and she's she's she might be the best athlete in the gym um she's she's crazy so anyway she'll be in there doing some you know a front hamstring or you know whatever she learned in gymnastics she'll do you know back uh pull over this and that she'll walk up danielle and she'll be like

i can do this and you can't do it all of a sudden danielle's just like oh yeah ivy and she danielle will go do that shit and ivy will be like oh like you know and i'm just like ivy don't talk shit danielle can do that it's awesome so good justin you said that you were i think this is a direct direct quote i was put on earth to sing oh yeah um did you yeah that's a previous life now you But how are you – I mean that's a statement. When's the last time you sung? Sung a word? On stage.

Oh, just period. Like did you sing – have you sung today? No, it's very early in the morning. He sang Happy Birthday to Danielle yesterday. Did you? Uh, last, last show that I did was, was 20, probably 2014. I would say. And was that at Mar-a-Lago in front of Trump?

Uh, that I actually in front of Trump at Mar-a-Lago would have been like 20, 2008, 2009 in that range. And then just showing off for Brian right now. Brian's like, God, send me some cool shit. The last super big event that I did was 20 – actually, it was hilarious. You want to hear something funny? I was coaching my team. So Team Dynamics 2014 at Regionals, Northeast Regionals.

Saturday night, I was hired by an event band to do the ceo of reebok's 50th anniversary um on at their private estate um in cape cod we opened for diana ross was that mad o'toole that's awesome i don't fucking know it's a huge estate i'm not sure it was but i'll tell you it was swanky as hell and what's funny as shit is the swankier it was the shittier they treated the band they put us in like you know we were in like a fucking dungeon downstairs you know all these there's 15 musicians full horn section five singers like the most kick-ass band you would ever go and see and they were sitting in a dungeon right and you had to wear a mask and it was 2014 and they still made you wear a mask yeah right no but that was that was

you know that was the last like really big event that that i did it was that was uh once i started coaching in grid um i just got so fucking busy that that i was you know and and the and the box was busy and i was coaching teams and i was doing this and I was like, you know what, something's got to give here. And, you know, I've had a good run. You know, I was I did music. I was a solo. I was with a band starting in 97 and then a solo artist up until about 2009. And I was just a hired gun just doing like big, big events.

But, you know, it was I love I mean, music, like I said, you know, music was, was the, I was put on earth to sing, uh, but I hate the fucking music industry. It was, it just wore on me. I, by the time I left the music industry and that's kind of when I transitioned, you know, over to CrossFit and fitness, because I played college athletics and I was always into sports, but, um, you know, I, I was so beaten. I was so beaten up. Like I, I was, I was just by that time, you know, from yeah, you know, getting a record deal and then having your shit, not do what you thought it was going to do. And then going on tour and having an amazing six months and all of a sudden tour, uh, uh, goes bankrupt. And you're like,

what the fuck? You know, it's just, it was one thing after another. It was just constantly this. And in 2007, I had pretty much like the most roller coaster ride I had had as a musician and, um, got really sick at the end of the year and ended up in the hospital. And, and then, you know, I, that's how I, how I got my body back in my, my mind really was, was CrossFit was functional fitness in general. What year was that? So 2007. I have ulcerative colitis

that was diagnosed when I was 18 in college. What is that? Something's wrong with one of your intestines? Irritable bowel disease. I can, you know, Crohn's disease. I really don't. I mean, I can pretend like I do, but I don't. Crohn's and ulcerative colitis

are irritable bowel diseases. They're random. No one knows. They're autoimmune. They just come. You know what I mean? Nobody understands why that happens. But anyway, when I was 18 years old, it was my freshman year of college. And all of a sudden, I started shitting blood. And I was like, this isn't good. So I went to the doctor and they did a colonoscopy and I had ulcerative colitis. And I didn't really understand that at the time. It's a pretty debilitating disease for a lot of people. And I generally was in check, you know, I'd had some flares, but generally in check until right around Thanksgiving, 2007, I lost 60 pounds in about three weeks. I went from 170.

I checked in the hospital. I checked in the hospital at 119. 119. How tall are you? Almost six feet. Yeah. You were dying. Yes, dying.

I was dying. Resting heart rate of 110 at that time. Wow. Holy shit. Were your parents freaking out uh everybody was freaking out it was it was scary man were you in denial what happened you what what happens you just stop eating because you shit so much you're like i'm not eating anymore you try to eat and you just couldn't keep anything in your system you're talking about literally you take a sip

of water run to the bathroom okay oh yeah that's like my life now. Yeah. I have that. So it's not like that with food, just water. So checked into the hospital. Uh, I mean, you know, essentially put, put me on all sorts of meds and, you know, I was sitting in a hospital kind of just thinking about my life and, and I was like, you know, something's got to fucking give here. I'm, I'm, I'm not happy. You know, I'm, I'm, I'm really just not happy'm really just not happy with where I'm at, with music, with the industry, with my management company. I'm bitter. I've become a bitter artist, like a bitter, tortured artist, man. I was just pissed off all the fucking time.

I was bitter about people who were my contemporaries, who I had sung with in college and in Philly, you know, where I had had the most fun making music. And now they had gone on to do, you know, what I had expected to do. Right. Like I sang with John Stevens in college. You know who John Stevens is? I don't. But I don't know. I don't know music at all. John Stevens is John Legend. You know who John Legend is? Oh, yeah. So John and i sang college

and we were contemporaries and we did a lot of stuff inside and outside the studio and it was kind of both our careers were kind of doing this right and and and then his you know his roommate in college was kanye west's um cousin and he introduced him kanye he became kanye's um keyboardist and then his career took off right um so So I was just fucking bitter because I felt like I'm as good as these fucking guys. Why am I not? You know what I mean? And at the end of the day, that's, that's the deal, man. Right. Like not everybody, no matter how good you are, sometimes it doesn't fucking matter. Like, you know, some people get there, some people don't. And I had had a good career. I had done a lot of cool things, but, but for me, it was time to make

a decision. Am I, am I going to constantly be on this rollercoaster ride or am I, am I going to do something where I can make a difference and not be bitter? And a buddy of mine who was an actor and I started training together to get my body back in 2008. And that, you know, we started in New York. This is in New York. This is in Astoria, New York. And we started following CrossFit. We started following.com. We started following Jim Jones at the time and doing a lot of stuff like the Mark Twight stuff. And we just – the two of us – He pissed me off recently.

Sorry. That was a long time ago. This was 2008. So we started doing that stuff. And then all of a sudden, it started to – we were at the, like I said, we're at this Globo gym and people started to be like, what is that stuff? You know? And, and we started coaching this class and people, it was called Midnight Madness. People started following it. And I started to, to find something that I felt like, okay, this is, this is my new stage. Like, this is a way that I can help people.

This is a way that I can affect people where, you know, music can, can do that. And now I can do that with fitness. And, uh, it was just kind of like the, the snowball started down the mountain. And I still, I was doing both at the time I was doing music and I was doing fitness. So I would do two jobs that no one ever is successful in music and fitness. Good job. Your parents must have been really proud. And I was an Ivy League graduate. I was like, I'm so fucking smart. I became a musician

and then I fucking opened a gym. Thanks, okay? So yeah. Let me take a break here real quick. Are you born and raised in New York? No, born and raised in, I was born in Miami and raised in Hollywood, Florida, South Florida.

Okay. And so do your parents know you're on this journey? Who's supporting, in new york no born and raised and i was born in miami and raised in hollywood florida south okay and and and so do your parents know you're on this journey who's supporting who's like emotionally intellectually supporting you through all this your parents yeah my parents were pretty fucking cool no doubt i mean my dad my i would say my parents were not extremely pleased at the prospects of me becoming a recording artist until they came to watch me. I was in college. I sang in a group called The Inspiration. It was an R&B acapella group.

I was the only white member of the group. There was like 17 of us. Token, token white guy, token white guy. Yeah, but I could sing my ass off. And my parents came to watch. And by the end of my time there there i was one of the standout soloists and my parents came and they were like we get it you know i mean like we knew you could sing but but but we get it and then i i got in this kick-ass band and in philly and we were

really big in philly at the time and and they would come and see it they were they were super proud you know but i think they also towards the end, they, they could see that, that I wasn't, I wasn't happy. I wasn't, I wasn't, you know, I just wasn't happy. My habits had changed. I, you know, I was very erratic, um, drinking too much and, you know, doing, doing stupid shit. And, you know, so once I, once I transitioned to, to, uh, to fitness, man, it was, uh, it really was like, almost like it was almost like a fucking wake up, you know, big wake up and epiphany of fucking calling, whatever the fuck you want to say it is. I'm not super religious, so I'm not gonna go down that path. But, you know, for me,

it's, it really was, you know, where I felt like, okay, you know, like I've given everything that I have to, to music and now, and now I'm ready to give everything that I have to this. And I met my wife, and we opened up a gym called Dynamics. What year was this? End of 2010, beginning of 2011. Okay, can we hold on there? I want to go back to two things real quick. How did you get out of the hospital at 119 pounds?

What did they give you? No. So I was checked in at 119. And the problem was, is that nothing that they were able to give me at home over the counter, not over the counter, but prescription meds that I was taking was stopping it. massive doses of solumedrol which is essentially just injectable uh corticosteroids um and they and they did that uh for and i don't know if you know anything about like prednisone or i mean that stuff is fucking poison over time um and it's not these are catabolic steroids they're not anabolic they don't build your body up right um And they turn you into a fucking lunatic. You get, you get all the side effects of roid rage. You get all that other stuff. Like you get in create incredibly erratic thoughts.

And when I say that, like you've got to every, every part of your being when you're on them for a long period of time, especially at high doses, you've got to think about not hurting people. Wow. Like that's, that's kind of where I was. And also just mad about, you know, being sick and all that shit. So anyway, they gave me that. And then you've got to, then once you get out of the hospital, you're no longer on the intravenous. So you've got to take high doses of prednisone. And then they, they weaned me off of

that over time. Um, but eventually I, I got it. I, you know, I, I, um, uh, there are some drugs that call biologics. Like if you've probably seen the, um, the, uh, ads on TV, like Humira, um, you know, different thing, injectables at home. And those basically changed my life. Like I, I, I take one injectable every two weeks and it, and it, and it stopped me from having flares for the last 10 years. Wow. It's been pretty amazing. And then I'm obviously extremely diligent.

I don't do a lot of things that are – I don't drink a lot. I don't do drugs and stuff. And that was stuff I was getting into, obviously, at that time. So there's some stuff that I do that, you know, take care of your body more than I have two kids. So I don't get a ton of sleep. So I can't say that I get a ton of sleep. But, but my wife is the rock star there. Honestly, she's, she's, I mean, there's not none of this shit would would get done without her. I mean, she's been she's the locomotion. She's the she really runs the shit. I'm more the visionary and uh she's got to rein me back in you know what i mean but anyway you were in the hospital and you were sick and they gave you some drugs there was no whatever it was these prednisones these catabolic steroids they weren't going to cure you they were just a band-aid but actually they were going to drive you crazy and thank god you found this other solution that's this other uh treatment called biologic um

to the girls and this i got distracted by your eyebrows. Sorry, this is just a little detour. Do the girls at the gym admire your eyebrows and talk about your eyebrows a lot? Do you do anything to those? Just occasional maintenance, maybe trim them up a little bit, but no waxing or anything like that. Man, they're so perfect. Thanks, bro. I appreciate it. no man they're they're they don't look they're so perfect oh thanks bro yeah yeah um how tell me about this band where it's all black dudes and you how did you get on oh well men and women it

was uh yeah how do you get on that and is it did you have hair then no so i started shaving i did have hair i i i actually still do have hair i i've been shaving my head since my sophomore year of college. I had a full head of hair. I just liked the way it looked. I was like, oh, good. Yeah. So I – It does look good. Thanks, bro.

So I – when I – I went and I saw this group. There was a girl I was dating at the time in college and – oh, thanks, Eric. Some guy just said I'm a handsome guy. I appreciate that. I was in college and I was playing sports and I was doing this. I was doing that. A girl I was dating was on a dance company at Penn. And I went and they did this show with this other campus-sponsored or school-sponsored group. And it was this group called The Inspiration.

And The Inspiration was an R&B gospel group. And I watched it, and I was like, this is exactly what I do. This is exactly what I sing. You know, like, I should be in this group. And I went to an audition. And, you know, it was an open audition for anyone at campus who I should be in this group. And I went to an audition and, you know, it was an open audition for anyone at campus who was interested in joining the group. And, uh, there were a couple of callbacks you had to go to. And, um, you know, and I remember it's, it was funny.

They came, they come to your door. If you get in, they came to your door and, uh, they had this, one of the guys from the group knocks on the door. He's like, listen, man. He's like, you were really close. But at the end of the day, man, we just weren't going to take any white people. And then, of course, the whole group jumps out. And they're like, ah, fuck you. You're in. You know, like that thing. It was cool, man.

It was like, I was like. A little humor around racism. A little humor around racism. It was funny. You know, and I was, it was humor around racism. It was funny. It was cool, man. It was cool. How many other white guys tried out? The year that I tried out, there was another guy who was great.

There was another white guy. There was a guy who was an Indian guy. An Indian dude? Yeah. really great singer like dot not feather uh how are you doing my parents came from india mumbai and i am here to try out for your incredible incredible singer but like indian american indian american guy they're all just indians to me wow wow wow that's amazing god indian people can fucking do anything. By the time at the end, there were four of us that were still there. One black dude, one white dude, two white dudes and an Indian dude. And then, and I, yeah, I got the, I got the nod. So it was, it was pretty cool, man. And I, and there were about, there were about, there were about 16 or 17 of us. It was co, it was co-ed and we did you know uh basically the the uh the um the mission statement was essentially like they they were trying to bring you know um essentially black artists you know so we only did music that was either um you know produced written composed or performed by

black artists so we did everything from gospel to r&b you know um and uh but you didn't have to be black to be in i wonder were you the first dude ever white dude in that band there was one there was one guy prior to to there was one dude uh his name was josh prior to me getting in the group yeah um but it was fucking it was awesome dude it was oh dude it's a blast i had a great time i'll tell you right now my college experience was was amazing i you know it was fucking, it was awesome, dude. Oh, dude, it's awesome. I had a great time. I'll tell you right now, my college experience was amazing. It was great. Athletics and arts. I was an English major, so I was cool with the whole English side, history, philosophy.

It was just a blast. And then I left school and I was either going to turn pro in golf or be a singer, but I was a better singer. So I went that route. Hold that thought about golf for a second. The only way I can relate to this. Brian's like me. You're overstimulating us. The only way I can relate to this, and I know there's people that hate them as well, but the Dave Matthews Band is one of my favorite bands.

I've been to like 42 concerts of theirs, I think. Are they white or black? Well, that's the thing. In early 90s in Virginia, you know, Dave was this guy from South Africa and he's playing at a local bar. And he and next thing you know, he starts playing with this group of guys. And it was like a crazy collection of guys. The bassist was white and he was 15 or 16 years old when they started. And he's still with the band. And then it was three black guys, drummer, violinist, Carter Beauford, he has

in singing. The violinist, which is super rare to have a violinist in this kind of band in general, also black. And then Leroy Moore, who passed away in 2008, but was the horns player. And those five guys stayed together, two white guys, one young kid and three and those five guys stayed together two white guys one young kid and three black guys they stayed together until uh you know he passed the one guy passed away in 2008 and three of them are still with the band now until the george floyd incident then they all broke up well honestly it's something similar to that that caused the violinist to separate from the band but it's just cool to hear that like like you know that kind of thing was happening in your life too where you know it wasn't an issue even though at that time in the early 90s and late 80s like

racism was still a prevalent thing and still is in some parts of the south so i always had that like kind of separate appreciation for them not just the south california is built on racism california is the you want to see the most racist place on the planet come to Berkeley, California. I joined the group in 95. So 95, 96. And, and, but I remember, you know, I mean, Dave Matthews was, was just getting fucking huge at that time. You know, they were, they were starting to get huge. But it was interesting.

I don't know, man. Like I grew up, you know, my mom will tell you a story about when I was three years old. She just still remembers, you know, driving a car and, and me singing, you know my mom will tell you a story about when i was three years old she just still remembers you know driving a car and and me singing you know stevie wonder you know in perfect pitch back in fucking when i was three and she was always like her favorite band was was um the doobie brothers so michael mcdonald's if you know anything about music michael mcdonald i mean that's blue-eyed soul you can't get more fucking soulful than that dude you know so i grew up listening to you know kind of like what who i call like the the the holy trinity which was you know stevie wonder marvin gay donnie howard like those

were my inspirations and then and then my contemporaries you know uh were maxwell d'angelo uh neo soul like jill scott indy iree who apparently has caused a lot of a lot of shit this week with uh with joe rogan so i didn't realize she's a cook but she was great listen her first album was the shit okay back in yeah yeah yeah milie vanille were fucking amazing too they even though they didn't sing their shit was amazing those fuckers got canceled and they and it wasn't like who cares who's singing it what do i care it's crazy that a band could be canceled because they're not the real singers. But the music was fucking amazing.

And their dance moves and their hair. When you were, when you were, do you think that there's something your mom said that when she would hear you sing that nurtured that ability? Do you know what i'm saying like she rewarded you with a certain smile and you're like like let's say you really weren't born to sing and you she heard something come out of you and she smiled and then she nodded and then you started chasing this acceptance like we all do and this love for our parents because it's survival right and and like do you think you could write a book about that so the rest of us parents could like mimic what your mom did that made that seed in you just fucking because you're still so confident

about your voice obviously i mean you talk about like a question yeah let me ask you a question because this is i think that we gravitate towards the things that we're good at right like if you're really fucking fast like you're you know you're just faster than anybody else right then you like to play tag at lunchtime every day and then you realize like you realize you're faster than everybody else yeah and all of a sudden you're like oh shit i'm good at this and and i'm getting rewarded for it because i'm really good at it i maybe this is something i should do right well i could, I could just sing. Like, I don't know, you know, it was just one of those things. Like you can jump high, you can run fast. You're really

fucking smart. Like, you know, and obviously you can get better at those things. But at the end of the day, I always say to people, like, how did you learn how to sing? I didn't learn how to sing. It wasn't a learn how to sing. You know, how did you learn how to be fast? Like generally speaking, the people who are fast, they've just are faster at, at, at, in the playground when they're five years old, like they're faster, you know? Um, I don't know, just, I could just sing and it was, yes, it was definitely parents, but I think it was, I think it was everybody, you know, like when I was a little kid, I would get up and I wasn't afraid to get up and sing in front of people or, or, and, and I, you know,

I would get accolades for that. And I feel like it was the same way in athletics. Like I, you know, I would on the playground or, or as I got older, you know, during gym class, like I was just better than you were at basketball. Like, you know, that was the way it was. And so, you know, I, so I continued to play and then I, you know, and then I eventually was recruited to play in college. And then you go to college.

And then all of a sudden, you're like, I'm hot shit. And then there's a bunch of people better than you. And then you're like, I'm not hot shit anymore. It's like you just keep going until you get to that point where you're like, how good can I be at something? And for me, singing-wise or music-wise, it was just something that always felt right and felt good um until it didn't anymore you know that was just kind of the way it was um and that's kind of when fitness you know kind of fitness took over at that time for those of you who don't know um this is justin kotler who's on uh with uh Matt Susan, myself. He is a coach and owner of Underdogs Athletics out of Las Vegas.

He's recently just popped up on my radar, but he's just one of those people who's becoming very successful that, from my perspective, is overnight success. But as soon as you scratch the surface, just barely, you realize there is absolutely zero overnight success here. The overnight success that we witnessed is just athletes from all over the world are contacting him, coming out of the woodwork. And it's a really broad, wide variety of people he's training. And it's a cool band, man. These people can do it all, girls all from different uh countries places um attitudes upbringings there's a um and now so there's a lot of curious on what who justin is and why these people are coming out to vegas to train uh with him it's a man it's it's a it's a crazy

and he's done it all in the space and by all in the space at the top of this space is basically things like crossfit the grid i mean in this um competition space and uh and then this other thing that um what's it is it called if3 what is it called again yeah if3 international functional fitness you know and you're involved in that also right yeah i'm the i'm the i'm the head coach of team usa okay wow usa ff which is how I met Maddie DeLugos. And also, do you know Gretchen Kittleberger? I do know. She used to work at CrossFit. Yeah, so Gretchen –

I did a photo shoot with Gretchen at Greg Glassman's house once. She was doing all these cool jumps and shit, and I was taking pictures of them. I wonder what happened to those pictures. Gretchen is the president of the IF3, but gretchen uh i got to know gretchen pretty well uh she when she came and and um she tried out for grid um back in in 2014 and she's pretty reserved yeah she's she's very reserved i always say gretchen is just a very classy person that's how i would i would you know. That's kind of what I would say about her, characterize her as a very classy person. But Gretchen, yeah, she had this idea and she was like, listen, I'm interested in – CrossFit can't be in the Olympics because CrossFit is private. It's privately owned. It's a brand brand it needs to be a non-profit so she she um yeah she she decided hey i think that this has legs i'd be interested in trying to do it and i think she's doing very

well i don't know if it'll make it to the olympics it's really fucking hard man the hoops you got to jump through it's really a challenge it's so political it's such bullshit yeah i don't respect them as an organization at all it's really yeah it's crazy like i know some of the stuff you know i kind of try to stay in my lane and I'm just a coach. But what she's dealing with, I know, and then she'll apply to get this and it takes two years and you've got so many people coming out of the woodworks with dissension and it's really bullshit. But I think she's doing extremely well and and you know you look at the people who um who competed and who have competed over the last few years i mean halty just won individually you know um uh at the if3 championship this past year it's been

it's taken a hit from covet just like just like everything else um but uh but yeah i mean and usaff has been cool i've met some really cool people um some really cool people and had a lot of fun going over. Went to London, went to Sweden. So we've gotten to go to some cool places and compete at the IFF World Championships. But from that, I've coached some really great athletes. And then obviously one of those athletes has come and moved to Vegas in Matt Delugos, who's now essentially part of our family. So it's been great. But yeah, the IFFugos, who's now part of, you know, essentially part of our family, you know? So that's, it's been great, but yeah, the IF3 is cool, man. It's fun. Anything that

gives athletes opportunities, Savan, man, I've always been a part of anything that gives athletes opportunities. It's why I got into, to CrossFit, you know, was to, to help people. And then when I started coaching athletes was to give athletes opportunities to help them reach their maximum potential. Then in grid, it was like, well, these athletes can make more money. Fuck. Yeah, let's do it. You know what I mean? Or, you know, I have three more opportunities wherever we can.

You know, it's opportunities to be athletes, man. What's cool to hear you say that is that's what Greg would always tell us, that business is about giving people opportunities. is about giving people opportunities about, and I remember when he spoke, when he went, when he went and spoke at Harvard, he gave them a definition of business that was so different than their definition of business. And it was so cool to see him be in this room full of these Harvard MBAs and

kind of just fuck them up. Right? Like it's about other people. It's about giving other people unique opportunities. He had a great definition of business. He gave them one. They didn't, they don't even have a legitimate one.

Anyway. Yeah, that's cool. And, and, and your message is consistent like that in all the podcasts I've heard you do. You're about giving athletes opportunities,

even though I don't agree with some of the ones you're suggesting. Matt, that picture you just pulled up, there's so much good looking in that picture. It's, it's really, it's just oozing from that picture. It's hard to,

it's hard to look out without turning your eyes that's good that's gonna be that's gonna be so much good looking in that picture oh my god justin this uh past several months i feel like you've um you're like next pursuit has been to kind of assemble a team of coaches around you for the for underdogs you talk about that at all? Yeah, for sure. You know, it started with Tommy Hackenbrook. Oh, that's cool. Yeah, so Tommy's one of our guys.

And then, you know, we put together a really strong group. You know, Casey Aker, who won the CrossFit Games upper extremity. Isn't it Aker? Is it Aker? He says Casey Acre. It's spelled a Cree. That's good to know. I always like to try

to get the names right if I can. Colette Casey, I think she's going to make the games 35 to 39 this year. She just won Waterpalooza, but she's... Very competitive division. She's a fucking monster. Just wait. Who's this? Say her name yeah. She's a fucking monster. Just wait. She's going to be right there. Who's this?

Say her name again. Her name is Colette Casey. Okay. She came in 21st less than a year after having a kid last year. And this year, she just went down and smoked waterpalooza in that division. And she's going to be – listen, it's top 10. It's really, really hard. I'm not happy about that.

Because if you, if you, anyone who, anyone who thinks that that's not a, that thinks that's a good decision, please go back and find an article that Chad Schrader wrote when they first changed it to 10, because, and I know they've added another step to the season this year with the semifinals, but it's not a live competition and it's not the same thing. And there is historically a lot of athletes that finish 11th through 20th in this year with the semifinals but it's not a live competition and it's not the same thing and there is historically a lot of athletes that finish 11th through 20th in their respective masters divisions

that are not just top 10 threats top five tests that are podium finishers and occasionally winners of their division that we're not going to get to see compete this year because they're not good in the online formats they can get it in 20 but the difference between 20 and 10 is a lot amen dude i agree 100 with that yeah for sure um but yeah getting back to the coaches uh tommy colette um you know casey uh connor connor martin running our our team uh you know the martins the martin family savann yes yes yes yes yes and yeah they they um you know brand x method so connor came on board and and is oh wow running yeah they're running our team um you know and then um and i'm about to do a um you know we're about to do a team a team program um so you know we've got have you known

them forever by the way the martins they've been around forever known of them forever, by the way, the Martins? They've been around forever. I've known of them forever. And I had Connor reach out to me. And about six months ago, Connor reached out and said, hey, listen, we really like what you're doing with underdogs. And we're looking for a home for us to be able to bring our teen program. And I was like, fuck, okay, that's great. You guys have more experience than anybody else. Mickey and Jeff, Jeff, they raised some incredible kids. Yeah.

Those might be like parents of the century kind of parents, uh, Mickey and Jeff, those kids are nuts. Those are special kids. Yeah. Okay. So we're, we're, uh, yeah, man. Um, and then, uh, you know, Brian, I mean, I think the biggest thing for me is I, I want to, I kind of look at myself as, as like, you know, I'm the general manager on the project. I want to bring in people who are, who are better than me, right? Like I want, I want people who, um, who could just, who can just keep leveling. Like, like, um, you know, one of my right-hand guys is, is a guy by the name of Kiefer Lamy. He's the head programmer at Invictus Boston. He, he had his own, um, program called, uh, Stronger by Design. The guy's fucking smart. And, you know,

like I love, I love bringing in people who are super smart. We, you know, who, uh, who I feel can, can bring something to the table that, that, you know, I feel like I'm, I'm a really good generalist, but if I can bring people who are, who are better at specific things and constantly just level up and, and, and, and bring, you know, more and more value to the athletes, you know, that's great. We have a guy now who just took over our um you know business operations he's he's great jared graybeal he runs his alos games he was on this show i think he's like a really religious guy right he is religious yeah yeah um he did he said you guys talked a lot about religion um but uh but jared beyond being very religious uh is is

also just really smart and And, and, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Who, who I think can, can, can help drive the brand while I can really, you know, focus on, on, you know, coaching and, and, and giving the athletes what they need, you know, especially, um, the Danielle's, the Bethany's, you know, the Ricky's, the Matt's, et cetera. So he has a lot of life experience too. I didn't mean, yeah, the Zellos guy. Yeah. He's, there's a lot, there's a lot there to that gentleman. And yeah, did he, so are all these people moving out to Vegas? What about, you mentioned this guy, Keith or Lamy. How does that work that he's the, he's the head programmer at Invictus Boston,

but he's also working with you. Yeah. So he, you know, he gets a lot you know he gets a lot of he gets a lot of um he works for us he does some stuff with uh black iron training he's i think he runs the nutrition there um which is out of reno um and uh he's coming out here next week um but keifer yeah he's kind of a jack-of-all-trades, but just a really smart, smart, smart dude. You guys don't have an issue there? And I'm not trying to create an issue, but let's say he does a program for Invictus Boston. Someone goes to Invictus Boston, and they're like, oh, shit, that's the same programming we have over here. Yeah, so he doesn't program for the Invictus brand online, right?

Like he's not – so there's no so, so there's, so there's no, you know, we're not, we're not fighting each other there, you know? Um, but, uh, yeah, so, so he, um, they, they kind of do their own thing. They're not, they're not essentially like, uh, they, they have that name, but they're not, you know, they do their own programming. That's not like, uh, the Invictus online program. It's different. You know what I mean? their own programming it's not like uh the invictus online program it's different you know what i mean um and he's not doing that so that you know we're not we're not fighting each other there um do you guys see um how how good this is for

underdogs athletics he doesn't justin doesn't avoid saying that kefer Lamy works over at Boston Invictus. He opens with that. I don't hide the fact that Brian is a reporter at the Morning Chalk Up or for the China Morning Star or that a frequent guest on Talking Elite Fitness or that he works at the Wadapalooza or as an analyst or at the CrossFit Games. I open with that. we want to work with other people i want the black belt who teaches at my kids gym also to teach at another gym thank you baby and cultivate as much shit uh as they can you guys see that how rising tides raise all ships yeah it's it's it's fascinating it's fascinating it's it's it's uh it's it's maturity and it's um it's true growth i i just really like that you see you've said that in two other podcasts about

this guy and i'm like yeah of course he's proud and victus is a fucking epic fucking brand in the space if the pedigree that's come out of invictus is insane of course underdogs athletics wants to brag that they got a dude who's who's straddling and listen dude i mean for me it's about like listen i it's not about my ego this has never been about me you know it's always been about it's about making fucking money it's and and and doing what's and and helping these athletes reach their potential man i mean I mean, like, like that's, you know, like that's what they hired me to do. Like my job is, is to get you is, is to get as many people on the podium as I can, you know? And so if, if, if, if I'm going to, you know, if I can bring in other people that they can help me and, and, and some of them that do shit better, well, fuck who am I? This,

I can't, you know what I mean? I just feel like it's, it's, it's gotta be selfless, man. You gotta be selfless. You're cultivating a be selfless. You're cultivating a band. Absolutely. You're cultivating a band, right? You're bringing in all the best talent from everything that could do because in that way, when you guys all get together, it makes beautiful music, right? 100%. What if there was a news network like that? Like you had like CNN, Fox, MSNBC, NPR, all the – like people from all the Breitbart.

They had them all like just a channel where they all came there and reported there it'd be cool it'd be cool network it'd be cool shit you know you said something about um about not um about when you're good at something that i what do you think about the fact that how great that you were saying that if you're good at running then and you rewarded for it, you'll keep wanting to play tag or hide and seek or track or those will be the things that attract you. So what does that say about someone like Matt Fraser who shows up at the games? Brian, didn't he take last at a running event one year and then come back and win it the next year, like take second to last, like in a sprint? And then I mean, what does that say about someone like him? year and then come back and win it the next year like take second to last like in a sprint and then i mean what does that say about someone like him is that just like is he just mind-boggling that

he can go in the lab i mean i think his stories is that he joined a high school fucking track team yeah high school and let the seniors just beat the fuck out of him for a season i mean the humility i mean what's that say? The guy's not a fucking runner. He joins a high school track team in the offseason, and the next year comes back to the games and wins and takes first or second in the run events. I mean, he's, again, we're talking about once in a generation.

I mean, that's an anomaly. I mean, that guy's a— But you know what I love about that? It's one thing to mean that guy said but you know what i love uh it's one thing to fix a rope climb like rich did not take anything away from rich i think he's fucking a god but but to fix your running that would be like velner coming back and fixing his swimming taking like top five in the swimming we would all be like what the fuck steroids can't even do do that for him, right? Nope.

You know what I think about Matt, though? And I think you see this with a lot of champions is that Matt essentially just got to the point where he refused not to be the best. Like, you refuse. Like, fuck that. There's no, like, I'm not. I'm going to sleep in my parents' fucking basement. I'm going to wake up. This is what I'm doing. I'm eating Cross, I'm asleep in my parents' fucking basement. I'm going to wake up. This is what I'm doing.

I'm eating CrossFit for breakfast. I'm eating it for lunch. I'm eating it for dinner. I go to sleep. I wake up every fucking day. That's what I do. Rinse, repeat, like the same shit. I refuse to let somebody beat me at this. And by the end, he was winning every event.

I mean, he's focused on outcome, not on image. He's not worried about this podcast. That's how I feel about the podcast space. Motherfuckers. You better watch it. And that, and that's, and that's, I mean,

I respect the shit out of it, but there's very few people who can do that. You know, I mean, very few, honestly, you know, that's that specific thing you're asking about.

Savan Hinshaw has talked about it before is that he didn't actually get any faster, but he was able to recover faster than the other people from the previous events. And so his relative running was better than theirs in that workout in that setting but where i do think that his running where you saw his running improve was when he just literally crushed the field in the trail run yeah is that the one that one year where they made them they took him to the ranch unannounced no no no. This was, this was 2016. It was way before that. They took them to the ranch. They did the trail run and everyone, I mean,

it was, you couldn't go there live and watch it was on YouTube, but basically the people commenting on it were like, here's bridges in the lead. And then someone was like, no bridges, isn't in the lead dude. Fraser came by like 45 seconds. Yeah. I mean, it's crazy to see. So I saw Fraser back in the northeast regional for the first time um it was uh it was 2013 yeah there was an outdoor one yeah yeah and he came in sixth um but we all knew very quickly um that year it was like he came out of nowhere i mean this guy came from from nothing he was a champ playing valley and they had historically pumped out some really good

athletes um and he came out and just annihilated the overhead squad event with so much flair like you know essentially i mean he just crushed everybody and then he was he was he was also like sticking the knife in where he would like hit the lift and then just kind of look around. Immediately, you were like, oh, this guy's going to be a force to be reckoned with. I don't think any of us thought at all that he was going to dominate the sport the way that he did. But you could tell he was pretty special and he had a lot of the attributes that you need physically to be special um but rudy nielsen i don't know if you guys remember him from that long way back and one of the theories that he had was the the higher your snatch was and the lower your body weight the more likely you were to be crossfit games champion and i remember there was this

video of matt frazier i think snatching 315 with like his shoes untied at champaign valley crossfit and i think he was one of the first people that posted rudy was posted that up into this whole analysis as to why this guy was going to be champ interesting i actually would go i would i would alter that a little bit and i would say that it's actually um it's actually overhead squat even more than snatch. And I always say that I feel like overhead squat translates the most to, and it's not a surprise that Rich Froning and Matt Frazier had elite overhead squats because they were perfect machines. had elite overhead squats because they were perfect machines to be able to, to, to be able to execute an overhead squat at a, at a really high level. Um, you, you, everything has to work in

synchronization. Everything has to be perfect. You can't have a weakness. It's the one lift that will fucking expose you more than anything else. And I always felt like that was, so I'm not saying Rudy's wrong because obviously snatch incorporates but i think even more so than that overhead squat and and if you look back historically like at what we do well to your point to your point justin i remember greg used to set up i think it was nicole carroll at the level ones early days and they would say here's a 95 pound or whatever it was. And then you would have these massive UFC fighters, Navy SEALs, and they would just

pick the bar up. No problem. And she would just start repping it out and they couldn't, you would start to see them get through like muscle through maybe two or three of them because the bar was light enough for them to do that. And then it would just break down and she would still just be chipping away at it. So that's actually, yeah, that further validates the point that you made there. That's, awesome about being that perfect machine but i that that that's when i remember seeing matt for the first time and just being like oh this guy's he's gonna be a force to reckon with um and i don't think we knew you know obviously at that time but but then i got to see him over the summer before the next season where he came in second. And I got to see him at an event called Beast of the East.

And he just dominated everybody. And there were some good athletes there. Christian Harris at the time, who was, you know, I love Christian. And Christian at the time was, you know, really at the peak of his individual form. And man, Matt just did what he wanted. He just kind of toyed with everybody.

And then obviously he went to the games, finished second to Rich, then had the kind of a brain meltdown and finished second to, to Ben. And then, and then dominated for the next several years. So yeah, that guy's a monster. Him and Tia have pushed into this really, you said a word like into the unknown. I don't know. You just said something that, that kind of labeled, like no one knows what they're going to do. No one knows what they're capable of.

Like they're in complete control of the narrative. Like it's, it's. And then when they started training together, Oh my God. So you just put two super humans in the same room and, and they just, you know, so I just beaten each other up every single day. Then you go to the games and it's like, well, I thought people aren't as good as who I've been training with. And I'm just, you know, they're just beating each other up every single day. Then you go to the games and it's like, well, these people aren't as good as who I've been training with. And I'm just, you know, I mean, that's, and I think it's cool in the sense that like, there's probably no,

probably no underdogs, you know, or, or probably none of, you know, you see a lot of these camps that kind of stemmed from, from, from that, you know, where it was like, okay, you had a lot of people who were, who were training by themselves. And all of a sudden you put the two best people in a room, they're leveling each other up all the time. And now it's, it's become like, well, for most people, if you're not doing that at some point, it's hard for you to really get to that next level. And it's not always the case, obviously see Justin, right. Um, but, but in general, you know, there are a lot of athletes who I think

have, have really kind of taken that model and are getting better and better, you know, because of it. Um, and I have a little, I have a little theory about this is that it's, you need the time alone. So if you look at all those people before they were training in a group setting, they had developed, what I think is they developed the mental toughness to say, I don't care who's here or if no one's here, I don't care what temperature it is or what music's playing or whatever. I'm going to go in my garage, my bar and my gym when no one's there and I'm going to get my training. And you have to build that up over time. And then if you've done that, that foundation, then it doesn't matter.

You can be thrown into an environment like an underdogs or a proven, or even if it's just a couple athletes here and there and go on the road and train with people as long as you have that base. I like it. Yeah. And I agree with that. And you see a lot of the athletes who had already kind of developed, you know, uh, a pretty high level of fitness who have then been able to take it to the next level, you

know? Um, so yeah, man, it's been cool, but yeah, I agree with you about Frazier. He was, I just think that, like I said, you just get to that point where you, you're already like a machine, you know, you've got it inside of you, but then you put that with, uh, that, that mental fortitude and just that refusal to lose. I mean, it's very rare that you, that you see people who are, who are just not obsessed and dedicated, you know, Justin, how, what is the, from 2009 or 2010, what is the journey of your confidence as a coach in the, in the waning and waxing of confidence?

And if that's not even a way you want to think about it, don't let me pigeonhole you. If you're like, hey, I never think of my coach as being confident or unconfident. I think of my coaching as an evolution. Tell me about just the change. But does it change? Because, and this stems from a thought of like, man, you are like fine tuning Ferraris all day.

And like, I would just be so, I personally just find it, I don't see anywhere like where I would be. I don't see any aspect in my life where I'm confident enough to fine tune a Ferrari. Yeah. I think that's a really good question. Over the years.

Listen, when, when we first started out, I'll look back. I mean, I'll look back at some of the programming and some of the shit that we did. And I was like, Oh God, that, you know, fuck that's, that's criminal. You know, like that's just like, we shouldn't, you know, we shouldn't have done that. But I think volume or just like, Oh my God. Yeah. Volume and workouts like some shit. Oh my God. That's just, that's terrifying. I'm permanently injured from my irresponsible. Yeah.

But I think you learn that, right? Like as you go and you, it's just, there's a lot of it's trial and error. And then a lot of it's, there's no substitute for experience. So really like experiencing that over the years, like what works, what doesn't. But, but I feel like the, my, the, the most confidence, like the biggest confidence booster, I would say, came between like 2013 and 2016, coaching a couple teams that finished top five at the games. Coaching grid, a few teams that won championships and dominated the grid league with a ton of fucking great athletes. Go back and look at who competed in grid. And it's, it's scary how good those athletes were.

I will still say the best group of athletes that I've ever seen in one place was the 2014 combine for grid, which was, which was out here in Vegas. It was the best collection of athletes, not the best collection of CrossFitters. It was the best collection of athletes that I've ever been around. I always get so defensive when you talk about how great the grid athletes are.

It's so defensive inside. I want to go outside and just throw a temper tantrum. I mean, I have no premise. It's pure ego. Well, who was on New York the first year? I don't know. No. I wasn't allowed to know.

I wasn't allowed to know. Matt Fraser and Annie Thor's dogs. Well, even in the other podcast, you guys were basically saying like, hey, just because you're a great crossfitter does not mean you'll be a great, great athlete. And you guys were talking about just some of the just insane shit that you guys would see at grid. Just the craziest shit you've ever seen. And I know you guys are telling the truth. That's why I get defensive. Remind me about grid because I wanted to ask you a question about that.

But anyway, I, I, um, that, that was a time when I felt like, man, like I, I feel really good about my ability. Yes. We should do a whole show where we just talk about Tony buddy. Okay. Probably shouldn't record. That's exactly what I was going to ask you. You read my mind. That's hilarious. I have no mind. I just use your mind. Go ahead. Okay. Sorry. I interrupted. Go ahead. Plucked that, plucked it from my brain. I was going to be like,

so tell me about Tony. Cause I want to know. So, so yeah, I, I felt like I really developed like the confidence by, I felt like I was able to, to get the most out of my athletes, you know, in really high pressure situations during that specific time, it didn't have to do, it didn't have to do with programming. It didn't have to admit it was more about on game day. Are you able to read a situation? Are you able to, the most out of your athlete in really high stress, high pressure situations? And I felt like during that time that I was able to time and time again, when put in those spots, to be able to get athletes to be able to perform at their optimum level.

And once I did that, I felt like, you know what? form at their optimum level. And once I did that, I felt like, you know what, I feel really confident now that in any situation that I'm going to be able to do that. Listen, there are a lot of fucking guys who can program. I feel like there's a lot of very good, you know, there's a lot of people who understand how to program. There's a lot of, you know, but I, but I felt like there weren't a lot of great coaches on game day, you know uh who were able to to motivate say the things that were necessary at a specific time be able to to motivate at a specific time to get somebody to be able to rise to the level that they want to be able to to rise to and i still feel like that's a very underrated quality for for a coach and it's still my favorite part of being in

this game like programming call that quality what do you call that quality i think i think there's a level of discernment of knowing what to say and what not to say and that there might be something that this athlete needs to hear but not right now and to be able to just file that away for post competition and you know build them up and more so than that there's there's something that this athlete needs you to say but if you say that to this, you are going to totally crush their whole fucking weekend. You know what I mean? Like it's understanding personalities and being able to understand like what does this person need at this specific time?

And if you can't read that situation, if you treat everybody the same, then you suck as a coach. And I'm sorry. That's just the way it is. a coach and I'm sorry, that's just the way it is, you know? Um, and that's, and that's kind of like, you know, I feel like that's been one of my strengths and, and, um, you know, I also feel like it's a strength of my wife. I feel like she's amazing at it, you know? And, and, and she's also there like in the trenches a lot of the time doing that stuff. Like it's not a coincidence. If you look at last year's quarterfinals that my wife coached um or judged i was a judge coach during quarterfinals you're kind of coaching and judging at the same time

even though they say you're not supposed to you really are um she judged two event wins like in the world she coached two of those wins or judged two it those wins. It's not two out of five, right? She judged two out of five. We had three out of five in the same gym, right? And now obviously that has to do with talent, but it also has to do with knowing how to motivate and knowing how to get the most out of somebody at a specific moment. And I feel like that's really something that we don't talk about a lot in this sport.

We always talk about programming, in this sport we always talk about programming programming programming which is very important but it's also about like you know you could program the same you know you could have five different programs they're all excellent programs how do you get the best out of that athlete on game day like how do you do that right and and i feel like that's we don't talk about that a lot i think that's undervalued um i and personally i think that that the ability to do that is is set up day after day after day with the relationship building the conversations in and out of the gym and the trust of the trust thank you yeah yeah trust yeah trust is fucking huge you know and it takes some athletes a lot longer than others i you know like you talk about with Danielle, like how she doesn't trust anybody.

And I would I would now challenge that and say that as much as Danielle can trust someone, I feel like she trusts me and my wife now. I feel from from from my computer screen. I feel like I see that between you and her, by the way, too. It's crazy because we did this interview with her. And then and then over and then it was like it's probably been a year since i had her on and did that full-length interview and since then what i've seen between the two of you through my computer screen and my tv set seems to be like oh shit she does i'm like there's some contradictions and the person i interviewed and what i see her having an exchange with justin kotler so so i agree with you it does

look like that even from you know thousands of miles away there was this thing that um i i had a ufc fighter on the other day or i heard someone else interviewing ufc fighter i can't remember where i heard this but basically you can have two if you don't have metabolic conditioning when you get into that ring you will not get it through through mental preparedness you cannot you must train metabolic first, but you can lose it through in the ring with poor mental conditioning. So you have two guys who are, let's say, a 10 and their metabolic conditioning, but one of them's mental game is good and one of them is bad. And the guy whose mental condition is bad will expend. expend basically he will frivolously lose his metabolic conditioning through his bad mental preparation so although mental preparation won't take like mental preparation taking to the next level is for already people who have all the fundamentals and i think that's what you were saying like hey and that's where you are you're saying as a coach now like hey a lot of us can

do this stuff to get you physically prepared and now it's the part to like execution, mental, physical. Yes. Yeah, I think so. And I agree with that. I mean, listen, if your fitness is not there and you go into a competition, you're going to be exposed, right? I mean, and engines win championships. So I agree with what he said, but, you know, you take a look at a lot of athletes who when they get to the games, right, physically very just minor. I mean, you know, point zero zero one percent differences on specific, you know, specific movements, you know, and why do some people why are you able to rise to the next level? And why do some people, why are you able to rise to the next level? Somebody like Carrie, who just mentally was able to do that. But there were specific moments that, and I like to tell the story about when Carrie fell off the rings.

And she knew at that point in time that the podium was not going to happen. She had dropped now, I think she was in fourth or third going into that event. She dropped down to seventh. And we knew, and it was the one time that I had seen Carrie be even remotely mentally defeated. We were sitting in the bowels of the Coliseum, right? We're sitting down there at the bottom. And, and Carrie was just one of those people that never got too high or too low emotionally. And I could see that she was crying and it was, you know, it's, it's very strange to see that from someone who, who you never see that from, who's not emotional in, in, in, in practice, who hasn't been emotional in competition. And you see her crying because it was the time that she realized like, I'm not going to make the podium. And I was so fucking close to making the podium. It was right before the event, the standard.

Do you remember the event, the standard, which was 30 clean and jerks. It was Grace, 30 muscle-ups, Isabel, right? And I was sitting down there and it was that time as a coach where you're just like, what the fuck am I going to say? Like, what am I going to do here? Because she's got to go out there. She's not at 100% physically. She just fucking got the wind knocked out of her. If you saw her in an event where she would normally crush in burpees and overhead squats, which are great movements for her.

And she looked like she had just been hit by Mike Tyson, right? And then so we're sitting down there and I'm thinking of what the hell can I say? And I look at the leaderboard and I see that if she beats Haley and she beats Amanda Barnard, she will catapult above them and be the best American female that year. Right. So I looked at her and I said, I know you're, I know you're hurting right now. I said, but I know how important the title of top American female is for you. If you go out there and you beat Haley and you beat Amanda, you're going to catapult to fifth and you're going to now be again for the, you know, third year in a row or second

year, third out of last four years, you're going to be the top American female. And it was like at that moment, tears were gone. The fucking competitor came back that drive and it was like laser focus. She went out. She did exactly what she needed to do. And she catapulted to fifth and finished as top American. Good. Very good trivia question.

Between 2016 and 2020, only one American woman beat Carrie Pierce at the games. Justin probably knows, but I don't think a lot of people would know. I know, but do you guys know? I don't. It's Anil. Oh, fuck.

What happened to her? She was a savage. She was something special. That was a – I'm going to say this in the most loving way possible. By no means did she – there are some women who are like men, not because of the way they look, not because they just have a fucking – like a cowboy swagger to them. That girl – and it's not to detract from her attractiveness. I found her. I found her super special to Neil.

That was a dude that I think maybe I interviewed her once and she had like four brothers. Like she grew up like playing in trees and shit that she's as sexy as they come. Don't get me wrong, people. When I say dude, but that was a fucking that was not a normal woman. That was what happened to her. I can't even remember. I believe you brought up her name, Brian. me wrong people when i say dude but that was a fucking that was not a normal woman that was what happened to her i can't even remember believe you brought up her name brian to neil holy shit i think she's really focused on family now she wouldn't have baby she yeah she's a woman she's a woman that's what i'm saying man holy fuck that's like tarzan that's

like tarzan's wife like that that was a special moment. I didn't mean to interrupt you, Justin. I was just a bit of a jury. But really all we're saying was like it is – and that's not a story like my fucking – what it is is just how you can affect an athlete in the most stressful times or when something really goes awry. It's not according to plan at all. Like, how can you affect them? And that's what I have the most fun with in this. Like, I still love that more than anything else. And I think that goes back to also bringing the people around you to be able to do a lot of the things like in preparation so that then I'm able to really focus on the stuff that I love to do,

which is, you know, that, that kind of game day preparedness and getting people ready day after day, like in the, you know, during a workout, what can we learn? What can we analyze? How do we get better so that on game day, we're as strong as we can possibly be. And it's, it's fun, man. I don't know. I have a fucking blast. I love it. So cool. Seven. I don't want to cut you guys off but i got to go in about five minutes okay then let me ask you this question ryan when i think of the greatest victories in the history of the sport um of all the events not the greatest athlete of sport i think it can never be a man because i in my mind that can

only happen in an event where the men and women are competing against each other, and it's when a woman does it. And it's just weird that I go there, but make it forced into such a small wedge. But that victory that Carrie Pierce had where she beat all the CrossFitters in the world and the more modalities it is than usually the greater it is. What event was that? modalities it is than usually the greater it is that what event was that i can't remember the details of it but i just remember her beating every human being on the planet and being like holy fuck that should be like that's that's got to be like some title of its fucking own this is like this is mind-boggling what was that was like are you talking about mary atalanta was it mary yeah did she end up beating every crossfitter mary atalanta or Atalanta? Both, but I don't know what you're talking about.

I don't know what I'm talking about either, but just when I hear, when I just remember hearing that one year, and I remember it had handstand pushups and all this crazy shit, and I'm like, holy know, the hugeness of the moment, like the gravity of the moment because she needed to win it. She needed to get a little bit of help, but she needed to win it to podium. And that was, and she just went out like, you know, I mean, it was, it was either I'm going to, I'm going to die or I'm going to win. It's one of the two. And she beat all the men and all the women in the world. That was at the games. That was at the games in 2020.

There were only 10 athletes who did that event, but she beat them all. And in the Games in 2019, there were still 30 people on each side doing Mary, and she beat all of them as well. And workouts are very similar in terms of there's a huge volume of gymnastics. And she did that twice. Yeah. It still should not happen. And it was, and like, I've, I've been a little, not critical, but just like, I've added the comment that like, you know, range of motion is a massive factor in Mary. However, Matt Fraser and Noah Olson both have range of motion on their side and they were racing one another for that event win. And she's still outperformed both of them.

Yeah. Nice. Yeah. And Noah Olson, you have to understand like,ah olsen had not won any events at the games prior to that that was so important for him so like and he was defending like fending off matt the whole time and she beat them both like it is pretty insane yeah isn't it great having brian around i can just pull something up that i know nothing about it's just like just like like and and he can make turn it into a good story brian story. Brian's pretty, Brian's pretty amazing with the shit.

Cause I, I, I pride myself on, on numbers and really knowing the history of stuff and Brian will pull some shit out sometimes. I didn't even know that. But it's, I can only, the only thing I can equate it to is you having perfect pitch. It's like, I can't explain it. I don't, I can't sing a note accurately to save my life. I couldn't tell you I'm an actor from any movie,

but for some reason, the CrossFit stuff just sticks. Awesome. Justin, we will have you on again. As we run out of time here, there is one question that everyone who listens to the seven on podcast needs you to answer.

And it comes from Eric wise. Can Colton Mertens win the games? Wow. Careful. He's listening. Yes. Be very careful. But he,

he, and the end of the show and version on said he cannot, he cannot win the game. He's five foot four. He's 5'4". He's 185 pounds. I think it's going to be real tough. I think Colton will make the games, and I think Colton is a hell of an athlete. I think it will be very challenging for him to win the games.

Yeah. Yeah. That's not to say he's not a fucking savage, though. I mean, he's a beast. That's because of his size? Yeah. I think ultimately there will be events where there's just nothing. I find it very challenging over a five-day event now, which apparently it is,

a five-day competition with 15 to 17 events. There are going to be a few in there that are that are too punishing. I think, um, at his stature, I think it's going to be a challenge. Even if you zoom, even if you zoom, they've, they just announced that it would be five days instead of four, which I thought was another positive change in that same email, the same hopper email. But, uh, if you just look at the podium historically, like it's nothing against people who are shorter than this or people who are taller than this.

I mean, Fikowski is a little bit of an outlier. Go way back, Spielman and Bridges are outliers. I guess Tommy Hackenbrook would be an outlier, but like there's a couple guys historically that have gotten on the podium being over 6'1 or under 5'8. Fraser is an outlier in that regard. But you basically have to be in that range to be consistently up there and that's just that's just what it's the history of the sport says so far

they still never won though right i mean they were on the podium but they still never won those guys that's so crazy on the men's side i mean obviously you have maderos fraser i i mean i think fraser is an outlier size wise but he's an outlier in so many ways and then you got ben Ben Smith, Rich Froning, Graham Holmberg, Miko Saylor, Jason Kiefer, James Fitzgerald, and all of them are 5'10", 195 basically, plus or minus a little bit. Yeah, Justin will be receiving an email from CrossFit HQ DEI about that comment saying Colton's too smart. I'm sorry, Justin, that I lured you into that. I'm totally fucked yeah sorry and the final question are there any surprises um athletes coming to i heard fukowski is coming to underdogs athletics is that is that true not true is are you sure yes i'm positive because i do have a

pretty good source um i do a pretty good source. I do have a pretty good source. We've already got our 6'4 guy. You know what I mean? Okay, all right. Is there anyone coming in who can't tell us that's courting you or that you are in a dance with now? Are there athletes? No.

Not right now. No. Not right now. I think we're going to roll with who we got right now with Danielle and Bethany and Ricky, obviously. But then we've got, you know, with Big Matty and got a couple of youngings, you know, Alex Gazan is someone you're going to hear about. She's really, really good. Scud's here now, and Scud's is working her ass off to try to get to that next step. And we have some few people that will fly in and play with us during the year. They'll come and train, and I'm sure we're open to it. I'm going to love that stuff.

But nobody I would say right now that I've been in discussion with that's going to be coming on board that's going to make big news or anything. I think everyone's kind of set with their coaches right now for, for the year. And then usually there'll be some shuffling after the year and then we'll, we'll see from there, you know, Just curious from a, from your perspective. I mean, if you were in the, in the business of recruiting athletes, is this, do you think that, you know, the S after the semifinals targeting the athletes that maybe just missed it or whatever, That's kind of the sweet spot to try to say, Hey, if you guys are looking for something else, come our way.

Yeah. I mean, I think that that's possible. I'm not, I don't really do that. I'm not, I don't really love. You mean you don't poach, you don't, you don't fly an airplane over the mayhem empire. It could be the same, but it could be the same. It could be the same question for athletes. You know, is that a good time with you? That's a good time. I think it's a very good time um i also think you know i'm i'm getting more and more interested in

in you know as far as like the longevity of looking at the longevity of the sport looking at you know kind of tapping into um teenage you know a lot of the teenagers and a lot of the younger athletes um you know who's going to be the next who's going lot of the teenagers and a lot of the younger athletes, um, you know, who's going to be the next, who's going to be the next. And, um, Oh, just check out our article from last week. I know it's unbelievable. It's crazy. I mean, it really is incredible. And, and so I'm, I'm, I'm very interested in, in, in watching that. And then obviously like, you know, that, that's something I think as a, as a brand, you know, something that we are really interested in, um, is group is grooming the next, you know, big group, which is again,

why we, you know, why we got a cahoots with the Martins because they're so knowledgeable about teen athletics. You know, it's, it's such a, I think it's, it's really not an extremely well understood, um, market as, as far as even programming is concerned. You see a lot of the team programs, it's essentially just the elite program, a little bit dumbed down, where ours is completely different. And a lot of that's just because of what's necessary anatomically. And so that's another discussion. But yeah, I would say – That was a dig at you, Colton.

That was a dig at you, Colton. It had nothing to do with Colton. But yeah, I would say – That was a dig at you, Colton. That was a dig at you, Colton. It had nothing to do with Colton. But yeah, anyway. Brian, what article are you talking about, Brian? What article are you talking about? Oh, the – I don't know what it is. The Young Guns upcoming this season. Last year, Tommy and Patrick and I collaborated to do one, and we were pretty good.

And so this year we did it again. I don't see it. I don't see it. because it's probably not under my byline it's probably under the morning chalk up since there were multiple authors alright I tried I tried I tried to give you a handy as we get off here Justin we

definitely will need to do another show where Brian's not here hijacking the show talking about athletes and numbers and shit where we just talk about athletes and numbers and shit, where we just talk about singing. That's a cue to pull up the comment from an hour ago where it says, oh, I'm glad Brian's here to get some feedback.

Let me tell you something. You haven't been on in like a month, and every time there's a comment, oh, Brian, I just try not to address it. Brian finally ditched Sevan. Thank you. I'm like, yeah. There's lots of them. People love saying you ditched me. He did ditch me. This is just a one to address it. Brian finally ditched Sevan. Thank you. I'm like, yeah. There's lots of them.

People love saying you ditched me. He did ditch me. This is just a one night stand. Brian just came over here to get a piece. Oh, yeah. It's such a great, attractive guest on today in every way. So I couldn't say no. Just dangled the Justin Kotler.

Come over to my house. I'm having Kotler on. I also should say this. The last five times I've committed to a show, you guys have rescheduled the time of it. Yeah, that's true. You have committed to a couple of them. We haven't had last-minute switches.

We ball over here. We switched this from 7 to 7.30. We had Nicky Rodriguez push this fucking young shirtless man push this old Kotler out for 30 minutes. Brian, somebody said you look like the liver. I'm assuming they mean the liver king. Oh, they're saying you look like the liver prince.

Oh, shit. Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. Do I have something exciting to share with you guys? Yeah. That's great. We all got them. All right.

I got to go, guys. Yes, you do. All right. Justin, Sousa, Justin. yeah that's good y'all got him all right i got it i gotta go guys yeah okay all right susan justin uh mr friend thank you guys thanks brother brothers