The Sevan Podcast - #394 - Everything You Want To Know About TRT with CA Hormones

Episode Date: May 11, 2022

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Hey, I want to look up the word. Oh, good morning, everyone. Corey, arm TV, Gary Robertson, the, his house, Travis Bellinghausen, Trina McLeod. Any questions that Gary has that pop up in there from Arm TV? Will you make sure we don't lose them? Yes. Thank you. Can you pull up the hormones? I want to read the definition of hormones.

I think it's about W-H-O. He's logged into two accounts. I'm so excited. I'm so freaking excited. What is the definition of hormones? I got nervous because I was like, I was thinking in my head, you guys are for sure going to say a word that like, I'm going to hear one time and not know how to spell.

And then I'm going to freak out. You're back here. Just sweat. Yeah. Today's the day that these guys, today's the the day these guys make us look stupid okay hormone a hormone is a regulatory substance sounds like our government a regulatory substance produced in an organism and transported in tissues fluids such as blood or sap okay in plants do plants have hormones to stimulate specific cells or tissues into action so it's a substance that controls something regulatory in an organism that's

like me so what's it control i wonder what it controls a synthetic substance with an effect similar to that of an animal or plant hormone a person's sex hormones is held to influence mood or behavior okay so i guess one of the things a hormone can do is it could influence mood and behavior so so a regulatory substance produced an organism and transported in a tissue in tissues fluids such as blood or sap to stimulate specific cells or tissues into action. So we must have hormones that are produced that regulate our mood. Do we have a sleep hormone? Is that, you know, like those two things, one that keeps us awake and one that puts us to sleep? What is it?

I said melatonin, but that's probably wrong. This is exposing how little I know about it. That's good. The less we know, the better questions we can ask. I feel like we're studying for the test, right now it's like hey you want to get together type in how many hormones are there how many hormones are there in the uh just in in in my sap that courses through my veins by the way um we are so we we cannot keep these ceo shirts in stock i want you guys to know we are ordering more um like as many as we can um

and uh i only have one i just have this black one i don't even have the red one yet and we talked to life is rx today and we're putting in a massive order and i'm so sorry i i i i didn't want to like police t-shirts i just wanted to um like it to be fun and i just thought that they just grew on trees and i'm realizing that it's like i guess it's like business stuff you have to pay for them and order them and yeah stuff like that okay how many do you want to guess first uh hundred seven somewhere between 100 and seven okay okay over 50 hormones have been identified in humans and other vertebrates hormones control or regulate many biological processes and are often produced in exceptionally low amounts within the body. So it sounds like you don't need a lot of hormones to activate, to get shit to start happening.

Oh, look at this shirt he has on. That's a beautiful shirt. That's a beautiful shirt. I was just saying that we can't get shirts out. And there you go. Really? No, I got it. Got it pretty easy. He's got beautiful shirt that's a beautiful shirt i was just i was just saying that we can't we can't get shirts out and there you go really no i got it got it pretty easy it's got a shirt uh dr connor should be here shortly she is fixing her mic uh how do you pronounce your um last name damien uh burgess b-u-r-g-e itS. It's right there. And Caroline. Oh, that's an easy one. Caroline Connor.

Did I get it right? Yes, you got it right. Awesome. Hey, Caroline. How are you? Good. How are you? Living the dream.

Living the dream. Me too. And Damian Burgess. So I'm Sevan. Nice to meet you, Caroline. I was lucky enough to meet Damien when I was down in Newport a month ago. And you met Matt too. We all went out to lunch, right? Yeah, we had lunch together.

Okay, awesome. Good to see you too. And you two guys work for California Hormones. Is that correct? Correct. Correct. Okay. We were just looking at the definition of hormones. Is that correct? Correct. Correct. Okay. Okay. We were just looking at the definition of hormones. Can I read you the definition I found? And you guys

tell me if Google's right here. You guys aren't on trial here either. No, no, no. You're dealing with two preschoolers who are very, very interested in what you guys are doing. Can you pull up that definition, Mr. Sousa? It's a very casual show. Caroline and Damien, you guys should both know we're live, so questions will be popping up on the side that we'll feed to you from some people who are very interested in california hormones and then um there's one more thing oh and it's a very casual show you got to go to the bathroom

a kid needs to be slapped around someone's butt needs to be wiped i mean i got three kids well you do you i start juggling anytime you guys take a break uh hormone a regulatory substance produced in an organism and transported in tissues, fluids such as blood or sap. I think that's in reference to plants. I guess plants have hormones, too. Yes. To stimulate specific cells or tissues into action. A person's sex hormones as held to influence behavior or mood.

So I was like, man, what what could it be regulating? So one of the things that hormones regulate are behavior and mood. Is that correct? are behavior and mood. Is that correct? Yes, they can. Yeah, they have multifunctions throughout the body. They're basically messengers throughout the body to make different tissues work the way that we want them to. And one of those is the brain.

So that involves behavior and mood. Could you give me something like how you could explain that to like a seven year old, like an example of how that mechanism works in the body? Just any, any hormone, any like a sleep? Is there something? Is there a hormone that helps dictate sleep? Well, sleep, well, it definitely testosterone can help regulate sleep. Yeah, there are many different hormones that regulate sleep. It's there are many different hormones that regulate sleep. There are multi-hormones that do that. I don't know as much about sleep specifically,

but testosterone and estrogen and progesterone actually help us sleep. Okay. I don't know that there's one specifically that just works on sleep. I think it's multiple different ones working together. I don't know what you think, Damien. And growth hormone. Growth hormone levels can increase depth of sleep. So I've heard that term HGH, human growth hormone.

There's actually a hormone called human growth hormone? Yes. Wow. That's the good – and that is – and we make that naturally. All these hormones that we're going to talk about today are made in the human body naturally, correct? Yes. Yeah, most of them are made in the human body, and when we're supplementing, we usually are giving back what was already there to begin with. Okay.

And insulin is a hormone, correct? Yes. And that's the one I guess my, I'm most familiar with that's most talked about in my community. And basically that hormone is influenced every time you eat something, right? You put something in your mouth and that hormone gets affected. So one of the greatest ways we can control our hormones is through our diet. That'd be correct. Yeah. Diet definitely can help control your hormones. Um you have a shitty diet, then basically your hormones are not going to function as well as if you have a good diet for sure. And what are the other influencers? Diet?

Well, age. Aging. Age. Aging and genetics are the biggest two, I would say. And then what about in sleep? Yes, sleep can affect stress. Stress, trauma. How about exercise? Definitely exercise too.

And so I'm making the presuppositions here, so I'll just double check with you. The healthier you eat, the better you exercise, let let's say the better i know that's vague the younger you are the better genetics you have and the higher quality of sweet you have all of your hormones will there'll be a cascade of positive effects in your hormonal library yes for sure i mean definitely if you do all those things your hormones are going to be better. But depending on your age, even if you, you know, you're living the perfect life, you probably will still have some effects of the hormones dropping off as you age. That you need, that you want, that help the quality. And this is all about quality of life, right? Yes. Correct. Okay. And how do we know the quality of your hormones? So we usually check, well, it depends on symptoms. And also we check patients' levels,

but some patients, depending on what, how they on how they're feeling, their levels actually may not show us exactly how they're feeling. So they say they're tired, they have no sex drive, they're moody, but their levels actually may be average. So sometimes it's hard to tell just based on the levels but we do check the levels and we combine the levels with symptoms and then we come up with a plan for hormone optimization and how do you check levels blood tests typically and and how much blood just like can can i prick myself and mail it in well there are yeah you can't you can't do a splat like a blood splat and actually pull hormones off of that um but if you're trying to get a more in-depth and trying to pull more values you should do a draw which you probably all had before in your past um probably several piles to make sure filling up the tiger tops to make sure that we get enough samples so we could run several tests to analyze it what did you say tiger tops uh just a type of tube it's a you've

probably seen them before when someone actually shows like a blood testing vial why do they call it a tiger top no idea because it looks like it has like a yeah it has different types it looks like a tiger print on there. Like a cheetah top. Oh, okay. Now I see it. Now I can picture it. Now I can picture it perfectly. Okay. So what, tell me what California Hormones does, like the, the, the premise of the, of the, of the company. Um, basically it is a telehealth platform that allows people to meet with physicians to get a baseline testing to see about treatment options for home or an optimization. It's like a crash course version of it. Okay. Say that one more time. So it's telehealth, meaning I don't have to go in there. I can call or I can talk to you on a computer.

Correct. Just like this. And then, oh, great. And so this is kind of like my first appointment right here. How are you doing? Okay. So what did you see after that? It's telephysicians keep going. Sorry. And what's the next line? So what we're doing is trying to, a lot of people come to us for different things. So I guess the first purpose was try to figure out what you're looking for. And so we'll do a health assessment and go through a thorough exam through questions and answers and probably a few questionnaires that you'd fill out. From there, we would run laboratory exams, laboratory testing to see where your hormones

are. And at that point, by based of your subjective, like what you tell us is bothering you based on your clinical findings in the lab tests, we'll be able to try to prescribe something that would actually try to meet your goals, whether it's I'm feeling fatigued, I'm feeling cloudy, I don't have as much mental clarity. We'll try to figure out the program that fits you. I was interviewing Paul Saladino. He's the carnivore MD. And he said he was on a flight and he was sitting next to a man.

And he said throughout the flight, the man had my connection is shitty. Is my connection shitty? What are you talking about? No, blurry. Oh, yeah. my connection is shitty is my connection shitty what are you talking about no blurry oh okay maybe get a home on for your blurry camera there i apologize he said he was sitting next to a man and he and he said he saw the man eat um like seven or eight scones on the flight you know those scones that like they serve you then the little plastic wrapper on the airplane you know i'm talking about they're like just a shitty cookie and dry cookie and um and he said the man was you know large like you know pushing 400 pounds and he said when he got off the flight um he somehow him and his man the man started talking and the man said oh yeah well

that's why i only had one scone on the plane. And, and, and, and Dr. Saladino told me that he believes that that guy believed that he only had one scone, that he didn't realize he had eight scones. Like that was just, you know what I mean? He didn't realize that he was doing that, that he wasn't like overtly lying. And I bring that up because if you're doing this with people, I guess, are they zoom calls you do with them? How do you trust? I mean, how do you trust patients? And this isn't a weakness of telemedicine. This is just like a weakness of in general when you question people, right? You're trying to get and you're trying to, you know, they're like, yeah, I exercise every day.

And you find out that they think exercise is getting up and going to the bathroom in the middle of the night. Yeah, that's a that's a chronic problem. Right, right. I think that that happens, you know, well, I see a lot of, I have a private practice as well. And I see a lot of couples in the private practice. And sometimes, you know, the wife comes in and I start asking her about her husband and I start to get a lot more information than I would have had if I just would have talked to her husband because, you know, people forget or, you know, I usually have them fill out a questionnaire because they, they tend to be a bit more revealing on the questionnaire than just interviewing them and asking them, you know? So yeah, it's a chronic issue but that part's got to

be important for them to be honest the more honest they are the better you can serve them yes definitely i think sometimes they don't even know they're being dishonest right and that was kind of my point yeah right he ate eight and he said he ate one yeah i think it's very common in my practice and i'm sure saying. Conner's that we'll have someone come in and say something. And then you're like, all right, are you taking any other medications or any of the supplements? We're like, no. And then five minutes later in the conversation, they start telling you that they're taking some off the shelf or something else that their friend gave them. But it wasn't prescribed by a doctor, but they don't consider a medication or supplement for that.

wasn't prescribed by a doctor, but they don't consider it medication or supplement for that. How long has this been around what you guys are doing and testing people's blood and then offering them supplementation, hormonal supplementation? Well, I mean, actually pellets, um, testosterone pellets have been around since the 1950s. So it's, they've actually been around a long time. It's definitely getting to, you know, the tide is changing with medicine going more towards regenerative and preventative medicine. So in the last probably five years, it's definitely gotten to be a more popular option for patients. So, but it has actually been around for a long time. And then in 2000, I think it was back in 2000, there was a big study, at least for women. I've only been treating men for about five years,

but for women, there was a huge study in 2000 that showed a slightly increased risk of breast cancer with a substance called Prempro, which is synthetic hormones, Premarin and synthetic progestins. So that was very controversial and everyone stopped using hormones and was very scared after that. It only showed a very, very slightly increased risk of breast cancer, but it was using hormones that we don't really use anymore. No one uses PrimPro anymore. So it's actually been around for a really long time. So just kind of stopped there in 2000 and came to a screeching halt. And then we've just been rebuilding since. that's made it so attractive all all the talk that we hear about testosterone it's always i mean how it popped up in my life first obviously is the hulk hogan's the arnold schwarzenegger's and then jose canseco and mark mcguire i don't know how old you guys are but that was like that was like a huge um thing in my life like um and and so there was this there was a stigma that it was illegal

do you know what i mean like almost like only the mob does it. You know what I mean? It's like illegal. And then slowly you started seeing in the back of airplane magazines, there was this one doctor. He was older, like 70, and like bald and had these little, you know, like the old silver glasses, but he was jacked. Do you know which guy I'm talking about? No. He was like the testosterone i mean

that is such a clear picture i feel like i've seen it so so so so are are this is a this is a legal thing to to supplement your hormones it's legal yeah yeah it's totally legal it's yeah and it's actually very safe but i mean people like jose canseco i mean they were young i mean how old were they when they were? Oh, in their 20s, probably. Yeah. So that's that's totally different than someone that's in their 40s or 50s and needs to put that back. I mean, if you if you put testosterone to Jose Canseco, his love, his level was probably

around a thousand to start with. So you put more into him. He's at 2000, 3000. Who knows what level they're at? So he's like superhuman at that point he already already has plenty of testosterone but a normal male at 52 goes through andropause his testosterone may be 100 to 300 so you're just trying to get him back to an you know a level that he was in had in his 20s and 30s is he going to feel like he was when he was 20, 30? Probably not,

but he's going to feel much better. So that's, I had a friend in his forties who got on human growth hormone. He said he felt like he was 18 again. Oh, wow. I mean, that's amazing. Yeah. So, I mean, typically I will mainly do testosterone growth hormone. There's not as much information and it is very expensive to get. But if you can be on both testosterone and growth hormone, then, yeah, you're definitely going to probably feel like you're 18. If you can tolerate it, tolerate the side effects. OK, and we'll get to those. What's what's andropause? That's something that every every man goes through. don't like that the word pause in there is it called like is it really andra end

andrew you're over i think it's similar because like menopause they decided to put andropause oh great thanks yeah they're being inclusive so sweet of them it's a newer it's a newer term that's just starting to be accepted now by men because they didn't believe that men went through an andropause, but now, now we definitely, well, we're checking levels. So we see that men go through a similar thing that women do. What are some of the symptoms? I know a guy who just turned 50. I'm curious. I want to help him out. What are some of the symptoms of andropause a few questions now fatigue anxiety irritability mood changes

sexual side effects loss of morning erections loss of sex drive i always i always tell people like that is that for me that's the that's the cure to like um if you ever have erectile dysfunction if you want a hard-on before you go to bed you drink a big glass of water and when you wake up this thing well i don't know it's not like it's like kind of like a fake hard-on it's like a fake erection you know what i mean the thing it's like it's full of yeah that's a bladder erection yeah but they're but they're useful they're crazy useful they don't come with a lot of baggage you're not like and they're like they're like they're like this you know what i mean like this gold stapler and they're completely useful yeah they are i'm telling you

i don't know that that works for everybody maybe all right well i just want to do an experiment let's get 50 men and see if that works i feel like they're more for show i don't know if that is that they are they are for show but they work too they work too they work yeah oh they totally work they're actually even they're actually even more effective i think but that's it what's it will maybe we'll get into that later in the show scientific research on that one but but I'm no doctor. I'm no, I'm just, I'm going to just,

I'm a stud. I'm an N of one. I'm just, let's interview 10 men and see if they did that, how they do. So, so if, what if I,

what if I'm 50 and I don't have those, um, symptoms, but I still want to get the blood work. Do I still want to get the blood work. Do I still want to get the blood work done? Well, I mean, if you're not having any of those problems, the thing I always tell patients about starting hormones or starting testosterone, if you're not, if you feel good, once you start it, you're never going back.

Because it's that good? Well, yeah. And you're never going to want to go back to feeling the way you did before right damn it usually yeah yeah i get it you feel really good and i do have i do have plenty of patients that feel good they feel good in their 50s some you know and they they don't have a lot of symptoms. So if you're someone that works out a lot and has a, you may have a lot of natural testosterone already. And so you may still feel good. But people that are not working out, they're not athletes, typically by 52, they're not going to be feeling well.

I see men with these beautiful bodies who are, you know, younger than me, 15 years younger than me. And then, and then they, you know, on, on, uh, social media, they'll post their testosterone and it'll be pretty low. What they say is low, I guess like three to three to 400. Is that low? That's low. But yeah, I have seen it. I have seen that in some patients. They do have that do have still have really good muscle mass and their testosterone levels will still be low. I know how doctors say someone has a nice body. Oh, you have some nice muscle mass. That's the scientific. I'm not hitting on you. I don't know. Like more. scientific yeah i'm not hitting on you you have some nice muscle mass almost sounds more i went for a physical uh at kaiser in vallejo i was doing a trip to africa i was in my well that was your first mistake kaiser. Right. Right. Well, and any hormones at Kaiser. Yeah. This, and this, this isn't about hormones really. This is just

total. This is just me, us talking amongst friends. Uh, and, um, this doctor I was in my third, uh, it's probably my early thirties. And, um, I had to get naked for this physical and this doctor touched my penis it was male doctor this doctor touched my penis with no gloves oh that's not appropriate right um i would i would not do that no damien you ever touched uh one of your patient's penis without gloves i haven't uh caroline i hate to put you on the spot have you that well i'm a gynecologist, so that would be like me touching someone's vagina without gloves. And no, I have never, ever done that.

Yeah, it was crazy. I remember I was kind of having an out-of-body experience a little bit when he did that. It was like I just popped out over here. I'm like, yo. He didn't have gloves on. He didn't have gloves on and then took them off, right? The nuances. The nuances. Oh, it was so weird it was so weird and but for me i just chalked it up as like a buy experience i'm like okay well i chalked that up in the in the resume i'm on my lincoln i went over there and said bye crazy good call that's that's interesting true story

true story well like i said that's your first mistake. How long ago was this? I think my T count skyrocketed. I'm 50 now. It's probably, I think it had to have been in my early 30s. 30, 31, 32. So, and I'm sorry, I'm ignorant on the podcast. I did watch the one, your latest one but i'm assuming you're you're very

active you work out a lot you're very yes yeah yeah so you're i mean i'm old it's like it's it's like if if you if matt saw me work out he would laugh but i'm like in my mind i'm a fucking rock star he's got some capacity he works out don't let him fool you don't let him fool you so you're not i mean you know we should just check your levels and see where you're at. Oh, no, I'm scared. I'm scared. Yours are probably actually pretty good because you do work out a lot. But I don't sleep.

But I don't sleep. See, that's, yeah, that's definitely part of it. That's part of andropause whenever you start going through it. So they're definitely probably not what they were when you were 25 or 35 and i'm in a lot of physical pain yeah like when i wake up in the morning i'm in a and i have a feeling if i if i if i did um get my blood work and did get on the protocol i have a feeling my pain would go away subside yeah it does help a lot with that as well yeah so i'm gonna wait i'm gonna wait till i'm i don't know what i'm gonna wait till i'm i don't know what

i'm gonna wait for i'm gonna watch what happens to gary first gary roberts gary's gary's uh i think gonna partake okay okay we're getting ahead of ourselves okay so so someone calls in and so so someone goes to the website um um and it's california hormones and um uh and i apologize i haven't asked any questions about women yet and i need to ask questions about women too because because i just didn't think that this was for women. But I'm learning it is. Well, yeah, yeah. It's for both.

Both men and women. Women have hormones too. Yeah, women are much more complicated. They have more hormones that we need to replace. No shit. I would have never known that. I thought you guys were so simple so okay so um i'm uh i'm interested in in doing it and what i do is i would go so i come to this website and and and i the first where how do i i can just sign up with you

guys and then you tell me you find a blood lab in my area. I go to the blood lab. They do a draw, and then that blood lab sends the data to you guys. And then from there, you guys become my doctors and tell me what you think. Correct, yep. It's that simple? Yep. There's labs all across.

It's that simple? Yep. There's labs all across. I mean, for instance, California or throughout the United States that we have a national account with that we can just send you pretty much anywhere that's close to your locality. There's a lab somewhere in every city. And it's really that easy. I click on here. I fill out my name and that stuff. You tell me where to go to a blood lab or or or i look one up in my area

and then i will take care of it you take care of it and then i go to the blood lab i don't look like that i don't look like that and then and then what happens okay so let's say i did that and let's say you got my my what what numbers would you be looking at on the blood like i know what this is going to mean this is going to be fine sorry this is going to get really slow here so my blood goes goes to you guys and what do you guys look at so we look at all the hormones um testosterone for males yeah testosterone mainly and free testosterone is really important estrogen males do also have estrogen we um so we, so we do check that. Um, and then we'll check thyroid. So all the main hormones, I don't check progesterone in men. Some, some people do,

but I don't. Um, and then also a blood count, uh, um, and then a PSA to check the prostate. Um, what else am I leaving out? i had that thing checked too that wasn't fun i didn't like that did he use a glove well it was weird he did use a glove and he i used the glove then he did use a glove and he was nice but i was trying to like think like is it does he hate this more than me or do i hate this more than him? Like I was just like this, like, is he like, Oh fuck. I went to school for fucking 12 years and now I'm sticking fingers and do anyway.

Then a week later he's, he's, he calls me and he says, Hey, your, your prostates, it wasn't perfectly symmetrical or something. I want you to go see a specialist.

And then the specialist had to stick his finger in my ass. And I'm just like, I wrote back. back i said next time can i just go straight to the specialist it's it's it was just yeah well i yeah i usually send a lot of my patients just straight to the specialist i wish i wasn't so finicky about my anus i wish i was more open i want to be more open about it. I'm an open kind of guy, but that. Hey, that's some advice. Remember, you just got to relax. Yeah. You didn't like it? No. Oh, that's because it's your fault. Someone told me. I was like, fuck. I'd rather send to the urologist. I'm like, I don't do that part. Guys are like, why don't you just do it? I'm like, no, no, no. You're going to the urologist. I don't do that.

You're nice. That's very nice of you. You're going to the urologist. I don't do that. You're nice. That's very nice of you. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Jeffrey.

I appreciate the, I appreciate the. Oh, Trina, you're a woman. Like you should be, this is when you walk away from the podcast. You don't participate in the barrage of comments that disgusting men say. Okay. Okay. I did have a comment though from uh from mr robert uh can you describe what anastrolda are we getting ahead of ourselves do we allow that question yeah a real question okay go ahead we can go for that question yeah anastrozole anastrozole is an estrogen blocker so whenever you're giving testosterone therapy, testosterone will convert to estrogen.

And so that's whenever you hear about men that are doing testosterone or the juicers, they're getting gynecomastia or they're getting boobs. Yeah. So when testosterone converts to estrogen, that, that can happen. So you want to make sure a male's estrogen doesn't get too high. So they don't have side effects like that. Typically when you're just doing testosterone replacement therapy, it's going to be very rare that you get to get a male with gynecomastia, but an Astrozole will block that conversion of that enzyme from testosterone to estrogen.

that conversion of that enzyme from testosterone to estrogen. Wow. Good question. Wad zombie. That's like, that's like a $5 question. Okay. Maybe it was almost like a test to that one. I felt like they were trying to find out if you were a real doctor. Like that was like a test. You just looked that up. Yeah. Is she just one from a getty images or is she a real doctor okay and and then and then how does that work so let's say you see what would be a typical thing you would see in let's say a man of my age a 50 year old man what would be like just can you give me like pretend like you saw my blood work and you could be like, okay, your testosterone was this, your estrogen was this, your thyroid was this. Yeah, exactly. So I would take, I would give you a questionnaire and

we would go through your symptoms, what you're having. And typically when people come in, they're complaining of lack of sleep or yeah, joint pains, all those things. So I look, so I, I look at that and then my wife's been with the gardener. all those things so i look so i i look at that and then my wife's been with the gardener they they tell me these things too okay okay that's all part of it but yeah so i look at your testosterone someone that's in their 50s probably if you're having issues it could be anywhere from it could be anywhere from 100 to 500. So typically 500 will be on the higher end for someone that's 50. And 100 is like, is like one third of what Leah Thomas has. I mean, a hundred is what we shoot for in females. So when we're replacing it for females,

we're shooting for about 150 to 250. So typically males are about 10 times higher than females. But in someone that's in andropause, their, you know, their testosterone might be, yeah. I mean, 500 will be a higher number. Like a lot of times it's around 300. So if a man's is normally 10 times higher, what you'd want to see in a man is 1,000 and a woman is 100? Well, so yes, in a male that in a male, that's probably 25. I don't know. I was just watching your, your podcast from last night and that guy, I'm sorry. It embarrasses me when I find out people watch my podcast. The guy that won, I mean, that guy's got to be oozing testosterone. I would love to see what

his level is. Justin, I mean, he's got to be like 1400 naturally. I don't know. I would love to see what his level is justin i mean he's got to be like 1400 naturally i don't know i would love to see who is that oh justin madaris the guy that won the competition i mean so so but you know what is he like 21 23 yeah 23 yeah so i mean but anyway so so a female so a male is usually about 10 times as much as female, but a natural female is going to be somewhere from 20 to 70s typically. But when we replace it in women, we actually go for super therapeutic levels. So 150 to 250 is a little high for a female. And the same symptoms for females, fatigue, joint pain, moodiness. Moodiness, anxiety.

Anxiety is a really big problem with menopause. So you notice as, you know, I don't know if you're married or. Yeah, yeah. Three wives, three wives. Well, over time, you may notice as they get older they get a little crankier you know and they start not you know just not having the same energy not wanting to have sex just just not feeling well oh i thought she was just into being tied up and held down that's weird maybe i misread that hey um you don't want to be tied up even more if you put her on testosterone you mean when

she's screaming no she means it um uh susan can you pull up um anxiety i want to see the definition of that word anxiety i have i have had i only get anxiety if i'm like right before i'm about to do some crazy public speaking or right before the podcast starts like a few seconds before it starts my anxiety levels fucking skyrocket yeah well i Well, I've had anxiety since they told me how to do this. Right. Okay, good. Well, that my job is to like try to lower yours and my anxiety at the same time. A feeling of worry or nervousness, unease, typically about imminent event or something with an uncertain outcome. Yeah. That's how every podcast is. It's like, oh shit. I'm like, my brain starts up and it gets really loud. Okay. Okay. And so it, um, I wonder what, what is the mechanism of that? Why does, why does, um, low testosterone levels make

someone, um, have, I would characterize it as an hyperactive mind, right? A noisy mind. It could be a noisy mind, but also as the heart's racing, you know, some people have chest pain or sweating, you know, can be a temperature regulation issue. But I mean, it also has to do with the brain and neurotransmitters and hormones can control that as well.

I don't know. I can't say that I know the exact mechanism of how how it works, but it works on the brain. And, you know, hormones, they're messengers. So they the receptor receptors in the brain. So that can help relieve anxiety. my friends in the past young men who've taken i don't even know what it was but they were pills and they were steroids and these guys got fucking huge and strong another thing that they had is they had this sort of presence about them that women just kind of um gravitated towards it was it was crazy it was there's definitely like

i i think that's definitely a thing too It was, there's definitely like, I think that's definitely a thing too. I mean, because there's pheromones that, and like supposedly men can smell when a woman is ovulating. So I have three kids. I think it's true. I definitely think that if, if someone has more testosterone, women are going to be more attracted to them. It's just like chemistry and signaling. And I don't know, I don't know exactly how that works. I don't think, I don't think anybody does, but I definitely think if someone has a higher testosterone level that, that it's naturally they're going to, you know, it's all about reproduction. That's the whole point. Yeah. They would have three wives and seven camels. That's correct.

that's the whole point yeah they would have three wives and seven camels that's correct i was actually reading about it you know preparing for this podcast and on wikipedia it says that men that have higher testosterone levels are well maybe i shouldn't even say this this is not yeah let's hear it let's hear it let's hear everyone everyone stop listening use the bathroom while the doctor talks wikipedia says testosterone can, you know, that some men that have higher testosterone levels can possibly be more likely to be promiscuous or cheat on their wives. Oh, well, if it's me. Yeah. I mean, if the opportunities are there, every time there's an exit on the freeway, there's a chance you might take it. Every time there's an exit on the freeway, there's a chance you might take it. But this is different in testosterone replacement. If you're just replacing it, getting you back to a normal level, then, you know, not promoting that.

That's true. That's what Wikipedia says. That really is an interesting thing, though. Comparison. You're driving down the road and you don't want a cup of coffee, but you see there's a Starbucks a mile ahead and you pull over and get some. I mean, you see the analogy there, right? Similarly. Yes. Like,

okay. So, yeah. So, so those, those, and there was definitely something about these guys and it wasn't just women who were attracted to a men were attracted to them too.

You want it to be around these people. They was, um, there was a, uh, uh, I guess the slang term would be like a cock sureness, a sureness about them. Like they were the rooster.

They were confident. Yes. Yes. But not in an arrogant way, but they were there. Yeah. You're right. Yeah, they were there. It definitely gives you confidence.

So it gives you confidence and you just feel better. When you feel better and you're happy and you're not anxious and you you have more confidence what what can go wrong cocksure oh sorry hold on one second great thank you susan cocksure cocksure i didn't think i didn't know it was spelt like that uh presumptuously or arrogantly confident this is just be the urban dictionary i don't know that says oxford but anything's oxford now um what are the what are the um uh how does it mix with the the vaccine what if i have 75 boot never mind i'm not even going to go down there uh i mean i haven't seen any issues with i mean i'm not always asking them if they've

been vaccinated for testosterone replacement, but I haven't had any. Don't you, if they're not vaccinated, don't you have to put on 17 masks and 35 layers of PPE? I don't do that. I mean, we've started to not wear masks finally, but I see a lot of pregnant women too. So we still wear masks for them. So what can go wrong? So let's say I do that. You go through my blood work. Sorry, before we say what can go wrong, what would be some of the things you and Damien would prescribe?

What's that look like? Is it shots? Is it pills? And what are they? And how do I get them? Yeah, I don't know. Do you want to start? Sure.

You can definitely start with shots. There's also creams that can be done. There's also we can implant pellets that has a slow release. So there's different ways to get this medicine derived. Some people prefer or are capable of injecting themselves. Other people prefer creams, confetti creams. And what are in those creams? Is it not only testosterone but estrogen? What types of things do you prescribe in those things?

Where do the pellets get inserted? In the fat of your booty. Okay. Off to the side of the anus. Yeah, not in the anus. All right. It's not a suppository no anxiety your anxiety went up again yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah no so it's inserted we make an incision on the side of the hip and for men they need about 10 pellets 10 to 12 depending on on the male and their weight. It's based on weight.

But it sits in the subcutaneous fat, and it usually dissolves there about six to seven months. How big are the pellets? What's that? How big are the pellets? They're about this big, like a pill. They look like a pill, but a larger, skinnier pill. And what's the best to take the injection, the cream or the pellets? Well, it depends on the age of the person.

So it really depends on the age of the person because you could treat, you know, you could treat a lot of and whether or not they want to maintain fertility. So some of my guys prefer injections. Some of my guys prefer pellets. Some of my guys prefer injections. Some of my guys prefer pellets. So, but you never want to give, you never want to give injections to a male that wants to have a child at some point, because the one thing about injections that if you want, that's the other reason I say, don't ever start testosterone therapy until you're ready or until your levels are pretty low. Because if, if someone that had normal levels started using testosterone injections and then they decided to stop, they'll never get back to their natural levels again

that they had before. Only, only regarding injections. only only uh regarding injections only regarding injections that's what i don't i don't really know exactly about pellets because most of the people that are doing pellets are older but from from what i know that doesn't do that with the pellets but i mean they always say that you know they always say oh no that doesn't happen so i'm not you sound like an honest doctor that's incredible uh what why wouldn't you want if i was still if i wanted to have kids why wouldn't i do the injections does it it messes with my sperm my swimmers yeah it's basically male birth control it's so what would it change the viscosity of my semen would it change the like when i saw it would it feel different when it came out or look different? Introducing TD Insurance for Business with customized coverage options for your business.

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Play at games.circlek.com or at participating Circle K stores. I don't think so. I don't think it's going to be. I don't think it's going to. Well, it might. I don't know. We got so i don't think it's gonna be i don't think it's gonna well am i i don't know we got to do a study on that all right it's the thing when people are like hey you should get your tubes tied i'm like fuck that this mixture is perfect it feels great when it comes out i don't want you to change the fucking like makeup of the but people say it feels the same but like i'm worried if you take the swimmers out you might lose some of the something yeah damien do this are you concerned about the distance what i've noticed personally after vasectomy

is there's a lot less volume which to me is appreciated oh man i'm not okay with that hey how about with women how about with her does it affect um does it affect them at all does that affect their vaginas at all like like when a woman's pregnant the vagina is i mean the vagina is already a great place. So when a woman's pregnant, it's like the greatest place on earth. It's like, well, well during pregnancy that, I mean, your hormones are just through the roof. Like everything is, is highly, highly elevated. Yeah. It's like the vagina is always on. It's like, just always, it's always, it's showtime. It's like, it's, it's ready until baby comes out and then showtime. It's like it's ready. Until the baby comes out and then there's no more. Showtime. Curtain's closed. But does that – when women get on these types of therapies, does it increase their libido or decrease? It does. It increases it.

It increases their libido, yes. And a lot of women will suffer from vaginal dryness as they get into their 50s. And so it definitely helps with that too. Wow. Okay. get into you know their 50s and so it definitely helps with that too wow okay that that was i was wondering that was when i first heard about this that was one of the first things i thought i go i want i wonder if it does any damage to the vagina like like fucks it up at all but no no it's actually yeah it's it's it's great for the vagina actually and i actually and that is actually what i thought i wonder if it turns it into a desert. No, if you don't give hormones, eventually by – I mean I have some women in their 60s that are not on hormones. And eventually, yeah, they'll start – it'll shrink and it will become really thin and it becomes dry.

They can't become lubricated. It's harder for them to have an orgasm. So naturally, that's what will happen over time, definitely after 50. Some people will experience it before that. Wow, it's almost like they don't want happen over time definitely after 50 some people will experience before that wow it's almost like they don't want to have kids anymore after 50 well yeah it's yeah well that's what we used to die after 50 so crazy it's just evolution i think over time we're going to start menopause is going to be later because because we're living longer we're having living longer and we're having kids later i mean my average patient is you know

35 now and i have lots of women in their 40s having babies so my wife didn't my wife had uh her first our first baby at 39 and our twins at 43. Yeah. So that's, I mean, especially in California. I mean, who can,

that was illegal. They were both illegal. We had them at home. She's too old. She old ladies can't have babies at home in California. California is fucked up. Yeah. What do you mean?

Especially in California, I cut you off. Meaning that women are exercise more here or healthier here. No, I think it's, I think it's just a financial, it's a lot financial. I mean, it's a lot harder to, for, you know, I have a lot of middle, you know, patients in the middle class and if they're, you know, they're working all the time, they're trying to save money. They want to buy a house. They can't even buy a house. I mean, it's so expensive here to buy a house for an average person. And, you know, they're, they're waiting, they're waiting to, to finish their careers and they've

saved money to buy a house and then have baby, you know, every, everybody pushes everything back. So I definitely think California, the age is a lot higher than it is in Texas. I grew up in Texas. So everyone in there had babies in their twenties. I came out here and I, you know, everybody's having babies in their mid 30s. Right. Right. Just the cost of living, I think, is a huge part of it. Right. I'm always I'm always blown away when I see people who have kids in their 20s and 30s now since I waited till I was 43. We're definitely meant to have kids. Females are meant to have kids in their 20s. I love it when I get a 20-year-old that's pregnant.

I'm like, oh, yes, this is going to go very easy. They just come in and they have a baby. No problem. Right. Medium home price in the Bay Area has risen to $996,000 and inflation adjusted 70% increase since 2012. Wow. It's hard.

It's hard for people to live here. Million-dollar fixer-uppers. Wow. It's hard. It's hard for people to live here. Million dollar fixer uppers. Yeah. Two bedroom, one bath, 500 square feet. $900,000. So people send in their blood work.

Then they you and Damien or are there other? I'm assuming there's other doctors also? Mm-hmm. Will prescribe a protocol for them. And do you start off slow? Does it start off slowly?

Do you have to commit to 12 months? Do you have to commit to the rest of your life? Like you were saying, you probably won't ever come off. And how soon before you start seeing something like, wow, something's changing? Um, and how soon before you start seeing some like, wow, something's changing. Yeah, I guess it depends on the patient, um, and the patient's results. Um, let's say if we were replacing, uh, mid forties with testosterone replacement therapy, they'll start noticing small changes early. But if you're thinking about getting the body changes, the lean body mass and decreasing like abdomen, like fat, you're looking at probably like starting to see maybe like four to six weeks, depending.

Like you could start seeing small changes, but they start will feel that confidence will start feeling better. And majority, a lot of people that come to us don't want to look like, oh, I mean, I'm sure everyone wants to look like Brad Pitt and Fight Club. But some people want to come and see us and actually just want to feel better and have more of a quality of life. And that to them is one of the reasons why Dr. Conner was saying that people don't come off it. It's because they feel so good on it. They don't want to come back.

They may not get the six packs they wanted, but they just feel good. So I guess it depends on the patient. But most of them get the mental clarity and the confidence and feeling better. That's obviously the first, I guess, benefits of it. Does everybody see body composition change? Most people will. Most people will. Guys, I feel like, are a slam dunk.

I mean, they'll see an increase in their muscle mass. They'll lean out. Females, it's a lot harder to get them to lean out, even if they're exercising and dieting. But men, once you replace testosterone and growth hormone in men, you'll see them increase in muscle mass and lean out pretty quickly. I mean, it usually takes, if you're using pellets, it usually takes about two weeks for it to kick in. But I mean, you won't see the full benefits of testosterone therapy, like the actual good health benefits. You'll see an increase in bone mass or bone mineral density. There's decreased risk of Alzheimer's disease. There's cardiac benefits, like those kind of benefits you won't see for probably two years. kind of benefits you won't see for probably two years. So it really depends on that. And then we treat people depending on their age. And if like, I look at it, what age are you and what are you, do you want to have kids? Are you, are you past that? You're done with that? Those people will

be on it probably forever. If you're, if you're done with kids, you're closer to andropause or you're in your forties and fifties, you probably stay on it forever. Someone that is coming to us in their thirties and might want to do it for a little bit and, and then wants to have kids later, you could, you could put them on Clomid, which, which helps to, which actually increases their fertility. More swimmers. Yes. Is it really more swimmers? Is that how better fertility? Yes, it can definitely help with fertility because it's so it's depends on which side of the pituitary you're working on.

So just like I was saying earlier, testosterone is like male birth control. So for females, we give them back estrogen and progesterone and that inhibits their pituitary. So it inhibits their brain to send the signals to make the ovary ovulate. So in the same thing with a man, so you're working on the pituitary, you're inhibiting those signals from the front end to make more hormones from your ovaries or the testes. So with Clomid, you're pushing the forward part of the the cycle so you're pushing more of the signaling hormones down to the testes to make more sperm so so sorry were you gonna say something matt or did someone say something no no okay

go go back for a second um you said it takes – go back to the benefits thing again. Sorry. One more time, go over that. I wasn't listening as well as I should have been. You talked about something that happens at the two-year mark. What was that? Oh, well, the two-year mark, you'll see an increase in bone mineral density. No shit. Increased risk of osteoporosis and osteopenia. Who shouldn't do this?

I think everyone that's 50 and over should do it. You must have a natural testosterone level already. So I have a couple of patients that are super active, and I have a couple that their testosterone levels are still fairly good, like in their 70s, in the 70s, females, and they feel fine. So if their natural level is still really good, but if someone's natural level is zero or nine, then yeah, I think they need it. But the thing is- Wait, did you say zero? Yeah. There are plenty of people that they're level zero. A female, when she goes through menopause at 52, her estrogen is zero, her progesterone is zero, and her testosterone is probably 10 or less.

What's the lowest a dude can go? I've seen men with levels of zero. And do you be like, okay, get more blood work. Like you have to double check that one. I double checked it like three times. No shit.

So are you sure it was a man? Yes. Check that too. We're going to have to do a cup check here. That one I'm still stumped by. And so we're most of the doctors that, you know, i don't know so so what if what if someone's testosterone what if someone's um uh 29 years old they have two kids

already they're done and they they come in and they test and their testosterone level is 500, but they want it to be 1,000? If they want it to be 1,000, then yeah, I mean, 500, yeah, they could do either injections, cream, or pellets at that point. But they're 29, so they're signing up. A lot of this is not covered by insurance. So, you know, it gets expensive, too. How much is it? Well, I'll have Damien go over that. There's a bunch of different price points, but basically starting at a monthly subscription of 200. So it can get pricey. And then the growth hormone gets up.

It's basically around a thousand. Two hundred. I spend that much on coffee every month oh actually that's not true probably 400 so and then and is it better to quit drinking coffee when you do this like could i take my coffee money yeah a lot of times you won't need as much coffee yeah that could be my thing that. A lot of my patients say they need a lot less coffee. $200 a month sounds so cheap to me. Well, it depends on what you're doing. I mean, yeah, for the subscriptions, then, yeah, they're going to be around $200.

Maybe the cream or the injections. For pellets, we usually charge in my practice $800 for the males, but that will last them six to seven months. But growth hormone can get very pricey and peptides can get pricey as well. Yeah, that's crazy. $800 for six months. I mean, to fill up my minivan that I drive my kids around in, which lowers my testosterone, that thing's like $112 to fill up now. testosterone. That thing's like 112 bucks to fill up now. There's actually, I'll send you over the formula. I've done a study for every five minutes you stay in at how many points of testosterone you lose. I'll send that over to you, Caroline. Maybe we can work on a paper together and put it in the New England Journal of Medicine, the minivan.

We have a couple of studies we need to do after this talk. What if I'm not going to work out? Well, yeah, let's go here first. What if I'm not going to work out and I'm not going to change my diet and I'm just doing this? Do you think that that's about, should there be a complete plan? I mean, it seems like it's such a, um, it's such a fun experiment. I mean, it's your body and you're in your, and you're going to experiment with it. Um, and you're going to partake in something that has such great potential to help you that if you're not going to bother changing your diet or, or

start working out, then is it kind of like, Hey, you just don't do it. you're not going to bother changing your diet or start working out, then is it kind of like, hey, you just don't do it? You're not ready? Like, is there? Well, I would say that most of the coffee right before you go to bed. Sorry. Sorry. Yeah, no, most of the population, I think, well, in California, actually, people are much healthier. In other states, people don't, you know, don't work out as much, but I think the half of the population probably in California is not really exercising or dieting. No one at Disneyland is.

I mean, you're getting them back to, I mean, you're still giving them benefits even if they're not exercising and eating right. Okay. Yeah. I think some people will get that energy boost, the better sleep. And then if they're on it long enough, they could get the increased bone density and cardiovascular without necessarily going through an extreme regimen of working out. But some people might just want to get through their day, their work day.

And if they are getting depressed, it could help with depression. Not that it's a cure for depression, but it can make them feel in a better mood. Why wouldn't – the only thing I've heard you say, and I appreciate your complete transparency and honesty about it. The only thing I've heard you say that makes me think that someone shouldn't do it is that of it's the commitment yes yeah it's a commitment i don't see i mean some people are i sort of get this fear that like what if like what if i lived in the ukraine and i was and i was doing this and fucking my doctor died and then the and then the testosterone plant manufacturing plant blew up i'd be like oh fuck well i do i mean i'm i'm on testosterone too and i've and i have that fear because you know the fda is constantly

trying to shut this whole thing down because the pharmaceutical companies you know they're they're you know they're trying to shut down the compounding pharmacies and so you know there's always this fear that we're not going to be able to get it. And me and my partner at work, we're both like, well, we're going to jump over the border to Mexico and find it because we, you know, I mean, it's, it makes you feel so much better. I mean, I, I couldn't do my job as well if I, if I wasn't on it, but I don't see, I mean, unless you have some major side effects from it, I mean, it can cause some acne in females, like it can cause some acne and hair growth, but there's other things that we can do to minimize those symptoms. So I don't see really any reason not to do it except unless in certain patients that have hormonal cancers, like someone that already

has prostate, a man that already has prostate cancer. And if they have testosterone receptors on the prostate cancer, then you can't give that male testosterone. Oh, that would be like juicing up the cancer cells? Yeah, or growth hormone too. If you had some sort of cancer already there, it could possibly make that tumor grow. And in a patient that has breast cancer,

I mean, there are a few patients that have had breast cancer that I will treat with hormones, but I'm very selective on those patients depends on the type of cancer. So, but a lot of those women cannot, cannot take hormone therapy. Yeah. There's other dudes who've had cancer and gone through chemo and then got on testosterone replacement therapy and just like, they're just jack yeah so i mean yeah that that i would be a little more i would definitely consult with the urologist and work closely with them if someone was ever going to get on it afterwards i just got this thing in the mail fuck we're swerving again i just got this thing in the mail from kaiser and it's a it's a it's an envelope and there was a sheet of paper in it and instructions. And you, you open the sheet of paper and you set it on top of the toilet and then you take a deuce on it. And then they gave me this,

and they gave me this plastic stick that I'm supposed to like, you know, hit the deuce with and then like put a top on it and turn it. Oh, wow. So they're sending that to your house? They sent that to your house they sent that to my house i didn't even ask for it they're just like they just send it to they probably send it to all their patients yeah and and i feel old because i don't i i we already talked i got a raging heart on every morning it's on demand one glass of water i i'm i i i don't need a lot of sleep i work out three times a day. My podcast is exploding. My wife can't keep her hands off me.

But I still feel like a fucking old man when they send you shit like that. I'm going to need you to take a shit on this piece of paper and then swap. It's like, what? Who told you I was 50? So you still feel really good. I do, except for when i wake up in the morning i mean i wake up every morning because i'm in pain yeah i have like crazy back pain but you're also you're also lift you're if you're doing crossfit you're lifting heavy weight yeah but i'm i do crossfit light i'm like i take the the women's prescribed weight and divide it by four and then in half again after that and i'm not joking i'm not joking my 50 pound dumbbells haven't seen the light of day and in forever unless suza comes over and gets a workout in

damian can probably talk about that more yeah are you always in Is it always back pain regardless of exercise And anything you're doing Yeah and I've tried a million different beds And I've tried the pillow under the legs And I've tried you know like masturbating three times And praying to God and just every Fucking routine and lighting the incense Everything and just my back

My lower back when I wake up in the morning I'm just kind of stuck And I had an mri and once again you know the doctor's like oh you have five dead discs in your lower back i'm like okay what are we gonna do he's like oh i have a good day i'm like fuck you know your discs are supposed to be white whenever they mri am and mine are just all black it's been like that for 15 years i jumped off a roof on mushrooms in college broke my back i think if i think it i was done growing that's not why i'm five five i was done growing but

i wasn't the first one to do it there were like 10 guys up there and they all started jumping off the roof and i and i was and i was the guy in high school who got picked after like if there were two teams if there were team captains all the boys be picked and then some girls and then me so like i had no athletic ability no coordination no jelly and dudes are just jumping off the roof and we're all mushroom like oh i guess we're jumping off the roof and onto what just onto a lawn onto a lawn someone's lawn how many stories was this just one just off a roof but you know the other guys were like rolling and tucking and rolling and i just landed like i thought i was a superhero i blacked out immediately i hit and whatever happened i i

was knocked out and i came to and that was it god i hope no one's listening to the podcast devon has had back pain ever since i can remember well thank you gary i appreciate i've been bitching about it, and I've known Gary for 20 years. Back check has been confirmed. When did your back pain start? Super curious now. After that? So you know what happened is after that, my back would go out about four times a year.

And whenever it would go out, it would be like crazy shit, right? Like I'm just turning around to wipe my butt or something or anything or anything i'm reaching on top and it would just go out and it would go out so bad that like i would have to drop to all four and like pop like four vikid in and drink a bottle of wine before like i could move like literally i'd be on the floor there then i started crossfit and it would only it started only happening like twice a year but it would always happen when i deadlifted always that or stupid kettlebell swings you know like i would be doing kettlebell swings with a 70 pound kettlebell and something would just go out but my core got way stronger from doing crossfit just the whole

frontal plane got stronger and i think that helped and now i mean i'm perfectly mobile like i can stand up right now and just touch my toes no No problem. And I can stretch and I'm super flexible. But just when I wake up, that thing is just rigid. You know, that those back five just don't want to move. They're like, uh-uh. Maybe you need like a glass of water. Yeah. Too bad the glass of water.

Yeah. Maybe it's just the hard-on in the front that's fucking up the back. Well, the blood flow has been pulled out of the back. Right? Yeah. The blood flow has gone to the wrong spot. Oh, I hope my mom been pulled out of the back, right? Yeah. The blood flow's going the wrong spot. Oh, I hope my mom's not listening to this episode. My goodness. Yeah. Are you doing specific core exercises to kind of strengthen or loosen or for mobility?

Uh, I mean, I stretch, I stretch a lot, you know, like, like I, I don't know if stretching is the right word, but I, you know, I, I fool around with the splits every, every single day. I, I sit, you know, I do child's pose a lot. I mean, I'm, I'm moving constantly and I spend a lot of time with my body. I wouldn't, I don't roll. I don't do use rollers or balls. Um, it's really just if I, if, if, if I'm lying down for more than five hours, the pain kicks in. So it's always about six hours into my sleep. It's like, like, so when I, when we were, when we were raising our kids, sorry guys,

I'm going to get back on testosterone in a second. I swear. When we first had our kids, I was getting up like every couple hours in the middle of the night. Right. And I'll, and pretty much my back pain went away at that point because I never was lying down long enough for it to hurt. But now we're sleeping again and uh and it's back so okay yeah i mean there's definitely some probably functional movement stuff to kind of keep it moving a little better it sounds like you're going through a little muscular fatigue if you're staying in one position yes it fails so there's that's exactly

what it feels like that's exactly what it feels like on That's exactly what it feels like. On the side sometimes here, it feels like I have crazy muscular fatigue. Crazy. Like it's not even in the spine. It's nuts. Is it spasming? Does it feel like it's spasming? No, it doesn't spasm, but it's tired. It's so tired.

Yeah, it's tight and tired. Why is that shit trying to work when I'm lying down? Like chill out. And I go in there before I go to sleep too. i do energy body i never try to fall asleep i put all of my attention on anywhere i have aches and pains my shoulder you know um my back you know wherever i'll put i'm it can get super duper focused and go into those places but for some reason that thing gets so i you know you know what i mean i'm trying to put attention there and breathe into it to try to see if what's tight and there's never anything that wants to let go okay sorry well i'll talk to you off there all right sorry okay

back to penises and vaginas why so so what what what are the what are the long-term um studies and results of all of this people people who've been on this? What's the longest someone's done this protocol? That's a good question. What's the oldest patient you guys have? I've been doing most of this about five years. So the longest that I've seen personally is someone on it for five years. But like I said, it's been around since the 1950s, but probably I would say,

I know that the people that I trained with, they've, I think they've been around since 2007. So, and they're, you know, out of the, out out of the probably the 400 patients that i've treated no i haven't had anyone with cancers no cancers they all they all mostly feel better their health is better i mean the thing is a lot of more people are going to are going to be using it like way better right not just a little bit better like people this is like no joke like people are like holy fuck i got my life back women that are like or women and men that are in their mid-50s that haven't had hormones for years it's like it's it's like magic like i said like a slam dunk like they feel amazingly better women in their 40s they're just starting to or men in their

40s are just starting to have those side effects. So, so it may not be as like, Oh wow, that's, that's amazing. But a lot of them, or, or they're not, they're just not aware. Just like, you know, you talked about earlier about the scones, right? It's like, it's like, well, they come back sometimes and they'll say, well, well what's it supposed to do? And then when it starts wearing off, then they're like, oh, yeah, now I remember. Now I remember how shady I felt.

Now I remember I feel tired. But, yeah, someone that hasn't had hormones for 10 years, it's going to be life-changing for sure. J. Mil, what's the most you've had a client raise his testosterone? Did I pronounce that word right? Testosterone with an N at the end, uh, through adjusting their nutrition and workout regimen alone. If they were worried about starting replacement up front, meaning, um, um, have you ever had anyone come in and you're like, Hey, you need to change your diet. You need to change your sleep. You need to start working out. And then they, and then they come back six months later and they're like, okay, I've been working out three times a day. I've been sleeping a shitload. I'm eating better. And then you test their shit and it's like, Oh, you're all you're

it's up 300 points or that damn dude. It's down. I mean, personally, I've never tested somebody for that. Um, and that when they come to us, typically they're wanting a baseline to kind of grow from. It's not, I haven't had somebody come in person. I don't know if Caroline has come in and actually just try to raise it naturally and then got on. Usually it's people that have exhausted those types without taking precursors or out taking some sort of testosterone building things from diet and exercise i'd have to look that up on a study see what the most somebody's ever raised it what do you think jay sorry go ahead i don't think that you're well it depends on it okay if you take if you take a guy that has has has not has never worked out or you know is or hasn't worked out in a few years and they really get

on a diet and exercise program and they're there. And then all of a sudden they're a CrossFitter, you know, yes, I would say you'd probably see, I don't know. I mean, like I said, I haven't, I haven't really checked someone's levels for that. Usually when they come to us, yeah, they've already, they've already been working out and they said, I've been working out and I've changed my diet and I'm still not feeling better. Or they don't have the energy to work out. They're like, I'm tired. I don't, I'm not sleeping. And then they're working, you know, eight hours a day. They're like, I don't feel like working out. I don't have the energy to work out. So what it took, I'm sure if you took someone that was never working out and then all of a sudden became a crossfitter i'm sure you would see a jump in that level i would

say maybe at least maybe 200 would be the max that's just that's just what i'm guessing that's about what we'll get with clomid you'll see like a jump probably around two three hundred yeah you know what's interesting actually now that i think about it, I just idiopathically dropped from out of nowhere, dropped down to around like a 400 level. I wasn't supplementing or anything. And then about six months later, it climbed back up to around 650 naturally. So I don't know what caused the drop to begin with. I don't know what the baseline was before, but this was several years ago. Could have been some sort of other medication I was taking that dropped it.

But naturally, just by working out more and being more active, I guess it rose about the same as what Caroline said, about 200, 220. I wasn't trying to. And you were younger. How old were you when that happened? I want to say I was in my late 20s. I don't know what happened. Maybe, who knows, add everything that would drop your tea happened to me. That happened to me, and all of a sudden, could be a lack of sleep, could have been everything, diet. I was still playing soccer three times a week, but all of a sudden, estrogen was high and testosterone was low.

No water, lots of sugar sugar bad night's sleep 14 workouts in one week you can seriously skew a blood test to register your testosterone low for sure that will that overworking overtraining it does it does overtraining does lower it if you don't give your body a rest yeah well you're using up testosterone when you're working out i mean you're so you know if yeah if you're working out too much and you're not replenishing that then yeah it could definitely be low what's the most common fear you get a question you get about people being afraid to start this like what like for some reason what is it cancer and and in five years you've never seen it you've never seen that none none of my patients that i've

started on hormone replacement therapy usually i've had a young patient get breast cancer and someone not on someone in their 60s that got breast cancer i probably get two to three breast cancers a year and they're typically in breast cancer can increase with age. So so we typically see it in older ages and neither of the patients were on hormone replacement therapy. And how many clients have you seen? Have you had in five years in hormone replacement therapy? Probably about 500. It was a. This is my own practice that i do um and i also i also see obstetrics patients too what is that pregnant women pregnant women yeah deliver babies so half the practice is

is pregnancy and half the practice is hormones and gynecology general gynecology do you have kids i do i have a daughter she's 11. oh wow congratulations thank you god delivering babies my wife had the babies at home and it was it was probably i can't think of anything off top my head that was three coolest moments in my life what a fascinating thing to see to see a human being deliver a baby and to see the, how the vagina operates and to see how, man, it was, it was nuts. It was nuts. Everyone should see that. Everyone should see that. Everyone should make a baby. Well, I don't know what that is. So you should see what start with seeing one.

It changes your life. It's, it's definitely a very, yeah. Like it's a euphoric experience. Yeah, very. Does it ever get old for you or is everyone like, holy shit, here's another baby? Some parts of it, yeah. It's definitely physically demanding for me. What do you mean by that? Why is that?

What do you mean? Well, yeah, we're usually running around so it is it is a very physical job so you know we're we're in the office we're running you know and and then we get called you know you've got a baby coming so then you run out of the office and then you might have to do a c-section and so you know it can't i mean for someone like me i'm i'm tiny i'm like five feet tall 110 pounds So over time, that can get very physically demanding. So it's, and in the hours, you know, the babies come, we can't predict when the babies come. And you have an 11-year-old baby yourself.

Yes. Hey, do you work out? Well, I actually have had a lot of back problems. Oh, you should see Damien. I know. I am going to go see Damien soon. Yeah, I actually just had back surgery about two weeks ago. So hopefully I'll get back into working out soon.

But not on a regular basis because i've had a lot of back problems but yeah i used to do i used to work out a lot used to do crossfit back in the day oh you think crossfit fucked you up you think that's why your back got all fucked up uh suza maybe you want to mute yourself for peter's crossfit gym you think you think you think that doing the crossfit uh maybe i shouldn't comment on that no it's fine it's fine genetics i'm an open-minded ceo i'm totally open-minded cb ceo i will adjust the entire way you're wrong after you hang up we'll be like she fucked herself up well i think i i think i had some back problems to start. I was a gymnast and

I don't know. I think, I think my dad always had a little bit of back problems. So gymnastics and, um, and genetics and then, and then like being an OBGYN you're, you're always, you know, always lifting things or holding things. So I think it's just chronic overuse as well. But I did, you know, when I first started doing CrossFit, there was a couple of times where I had some bad sciatic pain from deadlifts. But yeah, I think deadlifts are one of the, I mean, unless you're, I usually just do, if I do anything like that, I'll do a single leg deadlift um and it usually doesn't hurt my back but yeah I stopped doing deadlifts a long time ago

yeah picking babies up off the ground is enough yeah it's it's it's a it's a it's a fascinating um uh business you're in, it's really it seems like the outcome is always like just people feel better. Everything just gets better. You're happier. You can work out more. You can be a better contributor to society. I'm very curious to see what's going to happen with these three or four or five, six, seven people

we follow along over the next 12 months and see how, how this affects their life. It's really exciting. Yeah. Yeah. Whenever I first started doing it, I was skeptical, you know, I mean, we were trained in medical school that, you know, totally differently. And so I was very skeptical. And then, you know, I went and did the course and then I was very nervous to start doing it with my patients in the beginning. I was like, it was very selective and, um, because it's such an unknown, right? Messing with people's hormones. Okay. Yeah. And, and all the things that I learned in medical school, like, you know, hormones cause cancer, you know, a lot of my colleagues, you know, still think that. And like I said, I was very skeptical too. And then one, now that,

now that I've seen the difference, you know, I'm a, I'm a huge believer in it. I mean, it definitely, but you, you have to, you have to make sure you're following these people. You have to make sure you're checking their levels. They have to follow up, you know, because things can happen, especially in women. So there is, so in women, a lot of people think it's breast cancer that there's an increased risk of, but if you're not following the levels closely, actually there can be an increased risk in endometrial cancer, cancer of the lining of the uterus. So if a female is on estrogen and they have a uterus, they have to be on progesterone. And if they're not on progesterone, then it can increase the risk of endometrial cancer. So someone that stopped taking their progesterone and stopped seeing you

could end up with endometrial cancer. So you do have to follow these patients really closely. But as long as they're being followed and they're, you know, doing things appropriately, they're not going to get cancer. And how long have you been doing this, Damien? I've been doing sports medicine for about 13 years, which follows along with this. This specifically probably lasts three years, four years. Are there any horror stories that you guys have heard? You guys seem so positive about it. No.

I mean, I think there's always going to be some sort of horror story. But, I mean, I've had other stories that were more horror stories in my sports practice that weren't on hormones, actually, that were pretty terrible findings of people who had cancer that weren't on hormones. So I've had those. But in this, again, we're trying to meet, make people to optimum levels. We're not getting them to compete in bodybuilding or things that put them at risk. And we're also not using synthetic versions of testosterone, which you find in the gyms, like your Diana ball and things like that. You probably hear of like, yeah um so we're really just trying to i guess get people to that quality of life we're not trying to build superstars and things like that where you can kind of run another risk i just think that a lot of people like so for me if i

were to start this this program the whole thing for me would be um i would want to be able to play Frisbee with my son instead of 30 minutes. I'd want to be able to play with him for three hours. Like that's why I would do it. And so that's what I think. And I'm thinking for like maybe other men, maybe it's to look better to attract a mate. Let's say you're 50 years old, you've been through a divorce or you're still not married and you want to attract a better mate those are i mean those are those seem are those the reasons i mean is it that simple like people just want to be able to be more mobile be able to do more be able to play more be able to attract more mates i mean optimization you know or

performance enhancement you know so i mean if you could, even if you like, like you, you're not having a ton of symptoms, but it has a lot of health benefits. So the health benefits, you're not going to be able to see or feel like you're not going to be able to feel that your bones are getting thicker and stronger. So, you know, you'll see those those benefits over time. So, you know, you'll see those benefits over time. So I do think that, you know, if it was my choice, I'd have everyone on it, but not everyone is open to it. Not everyone is, you know, necessarily, is it in their levels and then we put them on hormones and they go back to Kaiser and their doctor's like, you shouldn't be doing that. You should get off of this. You know, this is unsafe, but it's typically that, you know, that doctor hasn't really experienced it. Like I said, I was skeptical in the beginning too. So I would probably, five years ago, I would have told someone the same thing. So, you know, and then people start not knowing who to trust which is totally

understandable so you're hearing two two different doctors two different opinions which will happen you know yeah well i mean my whole life my whole life i i've heard doctors say that you shouldn't be exercising that you shouldn't be squatting below parallel i even i remember my dad was in the hospital um they were he had some ei infection. This is like 15 years ago. And they couldn't grow it on a culture, and they didn't know what to do. And I remember asking the doctor, hey, while he's in this situation and you're trying to find antibiotics that can fix this, should we be worried about his diet or change his diet in order to help mitigate the spread? He said, no, this has nothing to do with diet. And like flash forward 15 years, and I'm like like you're a fucking idiot like like every fucking situation like i think i if someone i think you

can take a healthy person who has covid and give them a fucking six pack of of mountain dew and fucking mainline them with it and you'll kill them like that's that i think diet's like fucking huge so i don't trust it's great to hear your perspective and how things have changed and i think the half-life of a surgery in the medical profession is seven years, meaning every seven years doctors or the medical professionals like, oh, we probably shouldn't be doing that surgery anymore. And it's like crazy. I mean, I've had my own frustrations with that, too. But I'll say our training is not it's definitely not geared toward at least my training. is not, it's definitely not geared toward at least my training. I do think that the tide is changing and, and,

and the doctors that are coming out now or, and, um, physicians assistants, I have a lot of physician assistants in my office and a lot of them are more trained in more of what we call functional medicine. So there are a lot more functional medicine doctors are coming out. So the tide is changing. So just, you know, some of the, so stop bad mouthing doctors, chill out, the tide is changing so just you know some of the so stop bad-mouthing doctors chill out be cool chill out they're fixing it well i mean i think our training is is definitely you know i yeah i hate to badmouth other doctors either but the way we're trained is we're not trained in that and we're not trained trained that, you know, in, in diet and exercise and, you know, things like that. So, you know, typically when I'm working with, with a patient,

if they need help with their workouts and their diet, I usually send them to, I have a colleague that I work with, work with, and, you know, he does their diet and their exercise program, because I'm not really trained in that. And I'm not an expert in that. But, you know, and honestly, you know, hormones can get so complicated. So if you're, if you're, you know, most doctors kind of specialize in one thing at a time and it is really hard to be really good at a lot of things and, and medicine is so vast. So to be really good at one thing, you have to kind of specialize in it. So you have to, and you have to work with other doctors, but I've had my own, you know, before I

had my own medical issues, I became a much better doctor after I had all my back problems because I started researching things more and I'm like, oh, well now I'm on the other side of the table. And, and this is, you know, this, know, the surgeries that I've had are not working. These things are not working. You know, I'm willing to be open and try everything. But I definitely think as a doctor, if you've gone through something difficult medically, it changes your perspective for sure.

Yeah. I've had my own frustrations with back surgeons. I've probably seen 10 to 12 black surgeons until I finally found one that I think is good and understands things and listens. Yeah. I think there's two different approaches. One's like a proactive measure to try to prevent disease and the other one's a reactive measure to react to the disease that's already happened. I mean, I'm sure everyone here has been into a scenario where you've seen someone, they're like, oh, you're fine, come back when it's a problem, you know, because that's like the mindset is to wait till something's an illness to fix it

instead of looking at it as instead of a disease like disease, someone doesn't feel good, you want to actually try to make them feel better before they get to that stage of disease. I had a friend who is um i had a friend who is i have a friend who is a cardiovascular surgeon he's a surgeon but he's also a who's the who's the cardiovascular his main thing he does is reads x-rays oh damn there's a word for it. He's an interventional. Yes. Radiologist.

Oh, maybe that's what it is. Maybe he's an interventional radiologist, but he also does surgeries. Yeah. So he's an interventional radiologist. And he says that months will go by where he won't see a single patient or a single x-ray where the person's not 30 years complicit in their demise. Meaning they've either been smoking for 30 years they've been drinking coke for 30 years he says like no one just like runs off the 400 meter track and is like okay i got issues it's all it's all just fucking you know people who are just lifestyle just as they're just making the wrong lifestyle

choices for 30 years they've been you know wake up eat a donut smoke a cigarette and uh have that uh cream or sweetener in their coffee for 30 years and next thing i know they're fucked yeah i mean the i mean i mean you guys if you're doing crossfit you're you're already you're already doing you know diet and exercise which you should be but the average population is not doing that i mean i would say you know my average female patient is probably 180 to 200 pounds so average female in california which is is going to be a much lower you know level than something like like where i was from in texas you know the average weight there you know is probably more like 250 for the average person. Or at Disneyland, it's 330.

Probably. When's the last time you've been to Disneyland, Dr. Connor? It's been a few years, thankfully. I don't like the big crowds. Walmart. Just go to Walmart.mart's probably 330 is the average there that's what my that's what that's what someone told me too they said dude you're a fucking idiot don't you go to walmart haven't you been to a walmart but we don't have a i live in a kind of a small town off the beaten path so we don't have a walmart yeah um thank you guys for

coming on i i think that what's going to happen here is um this is going to stimulate a lot of conversation a lot of ideas and um and we've this has been a a great education for me and maybe we can have you guys back on periodically as we have some of these people go through the program and we can talk about what they're experiencing and whatnot. Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. All right, cool. Uh, did, and, uh, would you guys, um,

well, you can grade me, send a text to, um, uh, uh, miss Sarah and tell her you grade your experience on the podcast on a, on a,

what, what's the highest testosterone level could be? 1200. I mean, I mean, it can be higher. I mean, it'd be three. I've seen it. i've seen it 2300 2400 no shit

yeah like naturally or the guy comes in as all no no he's already i mean i don't know because like i said i want to check i want to check this this 21 year old yeah justin i want to see what his is yeah good point you know maybe we can get his blood work he's a good dude he's so interested to see what it is because that's you know that's the goals you want to get to you want to be like him right that that is true that's yeah so but yeah 20 i've seen 2400 but that's, yeah, not natural. Is there, is there anything you'd like to leave the audience with? Anything that you think that like we absolutely should have touched on that we didn't?

I heard you mentioned some games coming up. You mean the California hormone games? That's the goal. Oh, that would be – that's the goal. It's funny. Someone called me the other day, and they said, is that a joke? And I said, no, it's absolutely not a joke. And you know who I think is actually going to – who's going to win that? I think that the prize money will be so good that that kid, Justin Medeiros, will come there and win that.

But the premise of the game is is just to have no testing let anyone come in and find who is do it at the home of the crossfit games at this ranch in aromas where every where uh everyone their mother would show up it would be like i get into the details now it would be insane yeah and uh and we would have it programmed by the best programmer in the world and uh and dudes will show up and and and we'll test to see who truly is the greatest man alive in terms of his human capacity with all the bumpers and all the taking off and go. And hopefully you two will be there. Well, I mean, I've always said I wanted to just, you know, just level the playing field. I mean, I, you know, you know, because you don't know what a lot of the guys are taking. you know, you know, because you don't know what a lot of the guys are taking.

And it's like, well, if they're already taking, a lot of people are already taking certain things, then just love, why not make it legal? Right. Just, and see, see who comes out on top when you're then, you know, and you know what the thing is too, is I still believe that this guy wins. Yeah. That guy, I think he's going to win. Yeah, I think that guy wins no matter what. But it's still cool, but it's still cool to let like 50-year-old dudes compete against him. Yeah.

Eight categories. All right, guys. Thank you very much. Great show. Yeah, thank you. We would love to have you back on. I know we're going to have you back on again. We're going to invite you back on again.

And from the smiles on your face, I think you guys will come back on again. Absolutely. All right. Uh, we will, uh, talk to you, um, soon when, when I remove you guys from this, you guys will be gone and then you guys can just hang up. But Matt and I will still be here to talk behind your backs. All right. Have a good night. All right. Have a good night. Go to YouTube. All right. Good job. I'll give myself an injection right now.

I'm going to follow you for the next 12 months. Do they sell peptides and ship to – I don't think it works quite like that. Here's the deal. I think you can get anywhere in the US though. If you want – so here's the deal of what I think is going to happen. We have a bunch of really cool people who are interested. We have a primetime Alex Dine. We have Gary Roberts.

We have Jim Jordan. And we have a gentleman named Paul. I don't know Paul's last name. And then we have three or four women that we're going to interview to see if they're going to do this also. And we're going to – they're going to send in their blood, and we're basically just going to follow them along this journey. Maybe they don't do anything. Maybe there's no part of the protocol, and we just follow them over the next 12 months, and they have their blood checked four times. Or maybe they do get on the protocol.

But the Gary Roberts story is going to be absolutely fascinating if he decides to partake on it because we've seen him do this twice we saw killing fat man season one and killing for the fat man season two uh the two most popular um series in the history of crossfit that are non games related and there he is and uh he has a a work ethic and a commitment that I think is second to none. And it appears that last I talked to him that he stopped working out and he's put on a bunch of weight again, and he's very interested in doing it. And then, of course, there's primetime Alex Stein. 99. He's 40. Gary's 50 jim jordan is 60 and uh and actually we have another guy alex stein is 40 he's uh 35 he's 35 oh okay sorry he's 35 gary's 50 jim jordan 60 um and we have we have a couple other guys we have a 29 year old guy that's interested and we have a couple other guys. We have a 29-year-old guy that's interested, and we have the 35-year-old, Alex Stein. So we have this pretty great crew. Anyway, I'm pumped. Tomorrow we have the – we have a crazy week coming up for you guys.

Yeah, President's Club. Right? Tomorrow we have the CEO and founder of GoRuck coming on, Jason McCarthy. Yep. That's at 7 a.m. Then on Wednesday, I can't believe it, we have Officer Tatum coming on. If you guys don't know who that is, you should follow him on Instagram. Maybe Matt could pull up his Instagram account now.

He is a fucking legend and a warrior. Now, he is a fucking legend and a warrior, and he's an incredible man who really stepped out to speak the truth, I don't know, five years ago, four years ago. When did George Floyd happen? What year was that? Two years ago, three years ago? That's when he popped on my scene. Two years ago, two and a half years ago. And then on Thursday, we have the – I think the CEO of the tactical games coming on Jared.

Yep. And then on Friday we have the president of high rocks coming on. That's the event that, uh, the great Hunter McIntyre has been just dominating for the last couple of years. And then on Saturday, Oh, we don't have anyone booked yet on Sunday. Okay, good. oh shit and on monday we have uh uh tinkin and coming on did

i pronounce his last name right wow that's an old friend that's an old friend that yeah yami yami is the coach up there in iceland probably one of the best coaches in the crossfit space if not the best with probably one of the best teams if not the best best and it's going to be fun to pick his brain and hear about I'll ask him about his history with CrossFit when he found it we can both reminisce on some stories but I think in that stable right now he has a catch and David's daughter Annie Thor's daughter BKG and then of course that incredible team of Tola, Lauren Fisher, Khan, and Khan Porter. I don't know who the girl is in the bottom lower left. Here? In the gray tank top, yeah. Yeah, I'm not sure either. And then Frederick Agidius, he's the one that made the baby with Annie.

All right. And then on Tuesdayuesday we have a zach he's a guy who lost 120 pounds and has and has kept it off for uh four years i can't wait to talk to him uh he heard the disneyland episode wanted to come on and talk about weight loss our may weight loss story we're gonna try to do one of those a month right right? Yeah, that would be the goal. Oh, we got Raw of Earth scheduled for the 23rd, Ronnie Teasdale. There's another big one on there too. We got Annie Thor's daughter coming on on the 25th. Wow, wow.

Okay. And we got a couple more cool people in the works. We got Athena Perez coming on the 27th, and we'll talk about her new program. If you're not familiar with Athena's new program, there is a link to it in the bottom of every newsletter. Can you hear that? No, I barely, barely can barely hear something. I'm looking. I'm in my office and there's a window that looks out to the backyard and my boys are peeking in the window they've never done that oh right yeah they're

getting to that age i might have to fucking black out that window they're gonna start messing with me all right all right uh and the name of athena's program is shit i can't how come i can't remember it larger bodies no uh no uh no i'm trying to pull up the email for the life man i can't find it okay yeah yeah working working with larger bodies oh is that what it is oh can you put can you pull up anyway it's a couple weeks away um i believe it's going into its i think it's doing its beta in may or june and then eventually this will be open to the public very soon i can't wait to talk to her about it there's really no one that i know who's as committed in this space as her so uh all right guys i will uh talk to you tomorrow morning

um thank you to damien and uh miss caroline connor uh damien why do i have so much trouble with his last name bergs bergus bergus bergus and yeah wait did you answer this one too there's this oh no that's gotta uh we're working on it yeah uh she's down she's ready to rock we're just we just gotta land on a yeah that was my fault that was my fault i was uh hanging with dave and greg and the crew in colorado and i fucking dropped the ball on that show it's all right we'll get it she's she seemed into it she seemed like she's gonna have fun with it so that should be a fun show and you guys um the text messages and dms

as i'm looking over here are pouring in regarding this show that we just did wow yes so the website you want to go to is california hormones uh can you put is it california hormones.com yep i already linked it in the chat one more time uh uh one time before i just put it in again and then you guys can find that on our um newsletter the last newsletter as well as there'll be links to it in the show notes below and anyone who partakes who anyone who this is going to be something that basically i'm going to spend a lot of time focused on for the next year i'm going to be talking about this looking at this studying this following these people if there's anyone else who jumps on or jumps on this this bandwagon

or or wants to do this and you end up doing this through california hormones please stay in touch just because we didn't choose you doesn't mean you can't choose yourself and insert yourself yeah who knows maybe a lot of some cool stuff going on with that yeah like like um i met susan because he just bugged me i met will because he just bugged me i mean everyone i meet it's either i'm bugging them or they're bugging me they just just insert yourself just insert yourself like like tyler wat, the guy who wrote the article for the newsletter. And everybody who wrote in for the trial, thank you. We'll be getting back to a couple of you, the ladies actually.

And then for everybody else, I talked to Sarah about it. I do believe we'll be giving you guys some sort of discount code. And Sarah actually said as well, if you guys, for people listening tonight, that it looks like they'll do the free upfront consultation. So if you guys want to jump on early and go to the site and get your information, it looks like you'll be getting a free,

the free upfront consultation. And we'll be coming up with some cool codes and stuff like that for some people that want to participate later as well. What are you going to have for dinner tonight? Burgers. Some bison burgers and some liver i'm having tacos i'm not having liver i just was hoping that people would think i was cool they think you're cool all right guys see you guys tomorrow morning at 7 a.m thank you and buh-bye