The Sevan Podcast - #497 - Dale Saran pt. 2

Episode Date: July 21, 2022

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Whatever you want, man. Man, you were well receivedreceived on the last show. That's nice to hear. I'm glad to hear that. Hey, are you on social media? Intermittently. I guess I kind of have a – you're my social media. Oh, our connection is really bad.

Maybe it's because you're moving around probably um i don't i'm not i don't have time for social media you know and then when i go on there it's just it's a cesspool you know it is a cesspool i was just kicked off of instagram oh you got kicked off yeah and you know what's crazy i didn't care at first but in the last like couple days i've been trying to get people on my podcast and and my account had a blue check mark and you'd be surprised at how valuable that is it getting people to come on the show because i'll dm people and my dm will land in their inbox and if it has a blue check mark they'll respond to it but if it doesn't they're just like oh it must be some just scam. Oh, man.

What was your crime against humanity? I don't know. So I don't even know, Dale. But I asked one of my friends who comes on the show regularly, Andrew Hiller. I'm like, he goes, what happened? And I said, I don't know what happened. And he goes, well, I know what happened. And I said, what?

And he goes, everything, everything you post. So yeah, maybe just everything. But someone called me last night who had their account taken away, who got it back. And they said, hey, they got one of their accounts back. And the sign that you can get it back is you'll see remnants of your account still on the app. And I do see some remnants of it. the app and i do see some remnants of it so wow it's interesting you know there's a lawsuit and other uh media you know twitter facebook instagram they've got some lawsuits against them that basically they've been colluding with the government i've been following them oh dale our connection is so bad you're saying good shit and i can't hear it that's where you sat that's where you were sitting last time right yeah yeah yeah same spot i can move i can go in the kitchen is there better wi-fi there are you closer to the router there no no i'm actually probably in a better spot right here this is my desktop this is where i work from

No, I'm actually probably in a better spot right here. This is my desktop. This is where I work from. If you look in the upper left-hand corner, does it say your signal is weak? Or does it show some bars missing? Uh-oh. Yeah. No, Libby said it.

Uh-oh. Libby, what's in your mouth? Is that a pacifier libby budak uh big uh dave matthews ah damn dale yeah dale could you try the kitchen this is bad oh yeah or log off and log back on try that once yeah how do i oh just on. You want to try that once? Yeah. How do I do that? Oh, just leave studio and come back. Yeah, try that. Yeah, I'll log off and log back.

Okay. Good morning, guys. Yash, Manny, Bruce. Good morning, good morning, good morning. Mr. Jeffrey. Mr. Jeffrey. Patrick, Chase. Good morning. Libby, good morning. Elise. Elisa. Jeffrey. Patrick Chase. Good morning.

Libby. Good morning. Elise. Elisa. Elise. Elisa. Elisa. Elisa.

I don't think I've ever written this name. That's why every time I see it, I don't know how to say it. Jody Lynn. Vindicate. Oh, get your Vindicate Plan B shirts. Get your TDC CEO shirts before they run out. Damn, I love these shirts. get your tdc ceo shirts before they run out damn i love these shirts i wonder if all the people i hang around throughout the day at all the kids events i go to have noticed my entire wardrobe

has changed oh you guys are piling in alan good morning buenos dias buenos dias big and flexi oh big and flexi we got to get you scheduled i think it's going to be after the CrossFit Games. Man, the schedule is getting crazy. I just heard, I'm trying to do two or three or four podcasts a day as we get closer to the Games, just having the athletes just pile in. But I also just heard that I spoke to Greg last night, and he's coming to town. Greg Glassman's coming to town for four days to do some talking here in Santa Cruz.

And I don't want to miss that. So I'm going to shut up and see if that works better. Oh, you sound good now. Oh, that's good. Oh, is there, do I hear a baby? What? That's a cat. Oh, nice.

Let him out. Let him out. There we go. That's better. Where are you getting, Dale? You're in Kansas? Yeah. Uh-oh. Okay, so you were following, so the social media cases, people getting yanked off of social media, you said you were following some of those cases closely. Tell me about that.

Yeah, so there's a couple. Oh, son of a bitch dale hey dale can you know on the router yeah yeah how that try that i see you it's it's bad oh that bums me out man yeah maybe uh okay okay no problem yeah that's where jacob heppner went he went and parked his car in the strip club that is true is that what was the name of that club helpers that's where we did the podcast from that was pretty cool yeah you're frozen solid now go to help strip club let's see if this works You're frozen solid now. Go to hell, Periscope. Let's see if this works. All right. Better.

I was prouder. Nope. Oh, you're going to have Cara Webb slash Cara Saunders on? I just saw somebody pump that up. Yeah, we are. Dale, you're still so frozen, dude dude am i frozen when i talk to you yeah is there is there another place you can try i could try i could try one other thing i could try a different network i could use my cell to stream man what a pain in the ass i'm sorry not your fault man it's bad uh bad interwebs i don't know let me see if there's a better place

or maybe if i'm upstairs i like the cat what is the cat stuck in a room somewhere no the cat's just a pain in the ass they just we got very talkative cats dr d what's up brother good morning dr d that should be my nickname i like it when you walk around the house everything's great yeah isn't that funny yeah try it now see how it is now i'm as close to the router as i can be without – I'm tempted to plug into it. I don't have a plug with me. But it's not good lighting, is it? It's okay. We just need to hear you.

We just need to hear that giant brain as air gets bent around through your windpipe and then come out through your microphone. There we go. How's that? Hey, I was looking at the stats today of – um, I want to go back to the, to the, um, to the, uh, social media thing, but, oh, it's fucked up Dale. Now you're stuck. I can't even hear you at all. Now. Bad lighting is better than. Let me, let me log off and see if I can get a better.

Alan says, maybe you should take out your anal plug. Maybe your anal plug is causing interference in the… It could be. It could be. There you go. You're good. I don't know. I think you're good.

I know. Now it's good. I just saw that too. Can it just balance there? Hold on. Is your computer in a good spot? He's in the middle of the country somewhere. He's where most

of you guys live what's that called flyover land oh nope you froze again damn it i was looking at the numbers for police no yeah number of police in the united states and then alcohol related gun violence No, yeah. Number of police in the United States and then alcohol-related gun violence. One-third of all gun violence is alcohol-related. Uh-oh. Now, Dale, you might even have to log off.

You're completely frozen. Dale, go let the cat out of the bag heidi power cycle at all i appreciate that yeah dr d but in lowercase oh mr mcgatton newcastle that used to be my favorite beer in college not the one i could afford but but but the one I could afford, but the one I preferred. Just walk around the whole time. It's a thought. He froze. Got my Hiller no rep tank top and no plan B tee in the mail. Awesome, Karina.

Karina Rain. Is that your real name? It's a good name. Shooter McGavin, I like I can compete against you. Why? Is this dude good? Jeez Louise. Is Mr. McGavin a I like I can compete against you. Why? Is this dude good? Jeez Louise. Is Mr. McGavin a good crossfitter?

Yeah, I loved that brown ale. And any time I would try any other brown ales, they didn't do the same for me. Now I don't even like beer at all. It's weird. Mr. Rhodes, say hi to Dale for me. Do know dale uh mr rhodes do you know good morning good morning there's the other elise there she is i don't know if you guys saw trina started a reels account i wish i could remember the name of it maybe it's go rogue sevan or Sevan Gone Rogue or something. It's just reels from the show. It's pretty cool.

Oh, we're back. Hey, and the video here is amazing. All the other spots, the video is ass. It's just the audio. Yeah, you're real cool. I don't know, man. That's great. Dale, do you know Cobra Rhodes?

Yeah, yeah. Andrew Rhodes. How do you know him? How do you know Cobra Rhodes yeah yeah Andrew Rhodes how do you know him from how do you know him yeah he was yeah through Travis but he was at the games and then he and I hit it off I think he's from my old hood I think he's from where I grew up

wow Dale we might not be able to do this show fuck i'm sorry man i don't know what's going on hey can you run a speed test real quick and see if shit's weird how do i do that um you just open up a new tab and just type in speed test or none or holy shit we can see him now we can Just open up a new tab and just type in speed test. Holy shit, we can see him now. We can. Going Rogue with Sebon.

Is that it, Bruce? Yeah. It's a pretty cool. She's killing it, actually. It's not pretty cool. She's just killing it. She's just yanking shitloads of clips from the show and putting them up. I like it.

I'm flattered by it. I can see my speed. Crazy. We can hear the cat better than you. We can't hear you, but we can hear your cat. Oh, now it's up. It's pretty good now. Okay. I just don't think we're going to be able to pull this off. It's, it's pretty good now okay 12 i just don't think we're gonna be able to pull this off it's it's it's too it's too um have you ever had this problem before at your house internet problem went a wire and it's been a pain in it's been terrible and we did google fiber and everything and it's

it's enough. You're gone. I am. Sorry. All right. Uh, do you, um,

I don't know. Uh, I guess we could, I'm trying to, I want to reschedule, but what I don't know, we've got to fix this problem. Should I send you out a cord?

Do you want to send me your address? How long, how far is the, is the router from where you can sit? How many feet long Ethernet cable do you need? Dude, I was upstairs right next to it, and it was shit. Okay, so that means – Now I see you clear. Yeah, it's just so choppy. It's just so in and out and i feel bad we're 13

minutes okay okay tell me now you're good okay tell me so you've been watching the facebook uh people getting booted off of social media yeah and uh so i've got a colleague who's wants to is just dying to sue them and um and I'm I'm all in I'm like as soon as we get the opportunity but it looks like some state's attorney general Louisiana and one other one they just got expedited discovery against uh Twitter in a case down in Louisiana just came out the order came out like yesterday day before and so expedited discovery has been ordered against some of the social media companies. Now, we'll see if they take an appeal of that decision or whatever.

But a judge down there, a federal judge, has said, yeah, we're going to do this on an expedited basis, in the same way that Twitter asked for an expedited trial against Elon. Expedited, move it forward and get that thing going. So it's all fascinating. Let me ask you some questions now. Damn, you look good now okay so uh a year ago i was like um fuck the people facebook is owned by someone they can do whatever they want if they only want black dudes on there they can only have

black dudes on there if twitter only wants fucking um uh people who are highly medicated and lack any capability and just complete bitches. Let it be that. Who cares? And then someone said this to me, and I'm going to say it so poorly and you're going to have to unfuck it. You can do that until you get in bed with the federal government. Once you get in bed with the federal government, you have to follow the rules of the Constitution. And I go, I don't understand. I'm just a dumb podcast host actually i didn't have a podcast net and they said well think of it this way uh it's the same thing with why southwest didn't want to

force their pilots to take the um vaccine but they had to because they have contracts with the federal government so once you so can you explain that to me? Somehow social media is in bed with the government, and so therefore they have to follow the rules of the government, which means you can't just kick people off because they're black or because they're Jewish or because they're against abortion. I'll give it to you a better you, but they don't have any reason to come after you. They got no basis. They couldn't get a warrant, no probable cause. And so instead, they got Haley one day in the parking lot of the grocery store, and they were like, hey, listen. I feel my blood boiling.

And they said, I've been in some of these cases and they said hey listen they they caught her doing something like she left the boys in the car while she went inside okay to the grocery store real quick you know and and some cops were waiting for when she came out and they said hey listen hayley we're going to take these kids away unless you agree uh to go through Seve's computer. Here's this thing we want you to install on his computer and this will download everything. And then and then you give it back to us. So we're going to take your kids away. At that point, she's a government agent. And so she's subject to all the same rules that the government would be.

And so the Constitution now applies. She's working, you know, she might as well be a cop at that point. Right. I've had cases like that where sometimes it's voluntary, where someone goes to the government and they go, I want to narc on my spouse. And the government goes right on. And they think, okay, this is great because now we don't have to get a warrant. But that's not how it works. You're the government, you're subject to those rules. It's not, the whole point of the constitution isn't, as long as the government finds a private actor to do what they want they can get around the requirements of the constitution it's it's about agency really at that point you're just an agent of the government and so what what i was amazed at and this happened

about i don't know six months ago i forget what it was but um the White House press secretary got up and said in front of the entire American public that the president of the United States and the administration was basically squeezing social media companies to punt people off. And, you know, yeah, that was the redheaded. That was the redheaded lady. Right. And I sat there watching it and I was like, I couldn't believe it. I was in shock. I was like, did they just admit that it's state action? And I thought the lawsuits are coming, but it's amazing how cowed people are. I mean, it was an open admission.

What's that word mean? Cowed? Cowed. C-O-W-E-D. What's that mean? How cowed people are? Fat? Does that mean they're fat?

No, intimidated. Oh. Oh. So what is the – what relationship does Facebook and Twitter and Instagram, these companies have with the government that makes it so they can't just indiscriminately kick people off that they have to follow the rules of the country. Well, as soon as you're doing as soon as you're doing the government's bidding, if you're throttling people, you know, if it comes out. Yeah. Discovery that, hey, we're kick we kick Sebi off because he said bad things about vaccines that we didn't like. Right. And that's a that's a clear First Amendment violation. You know, if there's evidence. But if they're a private company, they can do it right.

Like like there's stores that say, hey hey you can't come in unless you're vaccinated yep completely private company and it was amazing to me because for years and years you know but if it's not private if the government asked the store to do it it's not we have a problem the term we use the legal term that that they use the legal term of art is what's called state action if you have state action then now you've got a constitutional issue if there's state action if there's no state action and by the way this is funny because you know i i don't know if you remember when on the crossfit website way back in the day you know i was i was pretty you know regular comments are on there um way back in the day and there were a

bunch of people on there claiming that oh greg when he threw some people off and he, you know, got rid of some comments, he had been pretty, they, Lynn and the moderators had had a pretty liberal policy about, hey, kind of, you know, we're free speech advocates. So we'll let most things, you know, they kind of let anything go on the site. But then there was this big blow up and, and Greg removed some comments. He had Lynn remove some comments. People were like, oh, he's a Nazi. He's a, you know you know what happened to the first amendment and i happened to be on there i was like just what you're talking about it's like bro there's no first amendment here it's his it's his website he can there's no state action right so there's he can do what he wants on his website he doesn't have to let you come on there you know it's only now i will say this there's there's one other

aspect to this that's worth at least considering, and that's culturally. You know, if everybody says if everybody's about not letting others, if every private company said, well, we're not you know, we anymore if nobody if nobody abides it and and everybody's fine with censorship then do we really we don't have a culture that even protects that value you know i mean like it's and we're getting there rapidly i mean the the culture is swinging that way everybody is like ah you know if you say something it offends me i you know you got comedians who won't do their acts anymore you've got i mean we we really have become a censorious kind of uh culture now you know god forbid you say something that offends me i don't want to hear it let's stop talking you know it's it's amazing it's amazing when the airline said hey you can't get on our flights without masks obviously that

wasn't true and we could have proven it as a group if everyone just said okay we're not going to fly anymore they would have quickly just they would have quickly changed their tune it's the same thing with um it's the same thing with social media i think i mean so many people like there's so many good people i know who keep telling me hey dude don't worry about the censorship just learn how to play the game and i don't know if that sits well with me no it doesn't with me either i don't know the answer yeah i don't know if that's i don't think that that so many people are like hey you just got to figure out the game it's kind of like um but i do do i do do it the example i like to use all the time is there's a good chance that this cell phone

um is is when as it's being made some kids are being killed right there's some some bad shit's happening to kids and yet and yet i still participate in it it's um it's a it's it's it's it's weird well there's a you know there's um there's actually a great legal case that's kind of related to this it has to do with how far do the harms have to, like, how much are you responsible for? How far does the chain of causation go? Degrees of separation. Right. And so how much am I obligated to, you know, live in a cave so that I don't, you know, hurt anyone anywhere, you know, by my consumption of a product or anything?

I mean, at some point, you could spend the rest of your life and and and you know never living in a faraday cage and accomplish nothing you know so that's not that's not the things that do that in india i hung out with them they actually sit sit still in one spot and they wear masks so they don't breathe in bugs and kill bugs and they don't walk around because they don't want to step on anything and hurt anything yeah yeah i get that i get sounds horrible no i get it right i get it i get it but it sounds horrible but i get well it's like my i it's the kind of the same thing i have with vegans you know if i recognize like ethically speaking they're like hey i you know i don't eat meat because it kills a sentient being and all that i'm like okay roger i you know enjoy this spirulina and say i'm not gonna i don't have anything against those people i don't make fun of them you know because ethically i'm down with it but i'm like listen man bacon you

know sorry just you know and and uh but you know we all have our same with pro-choice same with pro-choice people i understand you want to kill the baby so you can um you're only 18 years old and you want to keep going to the club and doing ecstasy and sucking dudes dicks i totally get it so you just kill the baby i get it vegans i get it yeah right and hey it's a it's a half half where does your moral where do you draw your moral lines right you know after i started scuba diving this will sound funny i started scuba diving and you know what i couldn't i won't eat anymore calamari octopus wow yeah the the little octopus yeah i won't eat them because you so you were swimming around with them and you like them too much they're so intelligent they're a highly evolved intelligent species and so i just i'm like that's a sentient being it's

the same reason you know this is a really interesting you'll love this one this is and you know what even how they serve that shit it's deep fried i would eat deep fried penis i mean it's like anything is good deep fried it's like kind of a joke yeah like just deep fry something else and tell me it's calamari right right use shark and tell me that it's calamari i'd be cool you know but not not octopus they're smart they're intelligent beings they really are but there's um um oh where was i i was good i love this internet connection yeah this is better huh yeah easy things don't come cheap look we had to just hang out for 12 minutes before we got you i would eat a deep fried penis yes will if it means saving thousands of these smart if it would make dale happy that's right no but you know after diving i was like

your eyes are open you're like i had a buddy who told me the same thing he worked in a slaughterhouse you know and he was like bro i'll never don't eat bologna you know don't have the hot dogs and i'm like oh really i love hot dogs he's like no whatever you do don't do that i like this thing you brought up about degrees of separation for cause and effect because I was actually thinking about it this morning in the shower. So if we have police, there is a mathematical calculation. We have 900,000 police officers in the United States or something like that, and let's say they're all armed. There becomes a mathematical calculation where someone is going to accidentally get shot.

Either the gun is going to go off when he sits down on it when he's loading it he's going to shoot the wrong person yeah there's going to be an accident yeah there's going to be an accident it just it's it's the same thing with you can't administer um uh a vaccine to everyone on the planet this let's say it's the safest vaccine in the world a needle is going to break off in someone's arm there is going to be a bad batch so someone's going to die even if just because of the sheer numbers we're dealing with there's going to be a pallet of the vaccines is going to fall off a truck and kill someone i guarantee you it's happened right like you name it and there i mean people have killed themselves falling on the fork while they're eating fucking you know uh their dinner it happens but there are things like this thing i was i was looking up just now um when you uh when you mix alcohol and guns the the second you start drinking

alcohol even if you're nowhere near a gun the chances of you being shot skyrocket skyrocket like if i had a drink right now just sitting next to you the percentage while i'm on the phone with you there's not a gun you know my gun's locked up in my house but but all of a sudden the second i start drinking it i could mathematically explain to you how 87 000 my chances of getting shot go up there's a whole bunch of things like that yeah it's it's, it's a trip, right? Yeah. Like, like, uh, driving a motorcycles, Greg used to talk about this driving a motorcycle is, you know, it's got some inherent danger. I mean, it's not, you know, like if you go down, man, there's nothing between you and the pavement, you know, and, uh, and yet there's a bunch of

things you can do that statistically reduce your risks like everything it's really funny if you look at it the course that you take california is that motorcycle course when you take it they show you that each of these things cuts your risk in half so like if you wear a helmet you know you've just decreased your risk by 50 now uh if you wear a full face helmet you know you've taken another 50 of that you know if you wear if you wear riding leathers you wear boots you wear gloves don't drink and and all of a sudden motorcycle riding goes you know it's like a not a fairly benign you know endeavor you can make yourself a lot safer but man add boost to it and your risk is now about a million fold of being a you know eventually being

an organ donor that's how that works out i think you'll you'll like this story greg text dave and i and said i'm going to the harley davidson dealership in monterey do you guys want to come with me and and obby was like i don't know at the time he was like 12 18 months old and i said oh i can't go with you guys i'm taking obby to ballet class now at 18 months um ballet soccer football karate whatever you put your kid in they all look the same there's no distinction it's the same dumb shit they do they kids play it's so stupid yeah it's cool but but it's stupid and so it so i say oh i can't i'm going so dave calls me he goes hey dumb fuck greg's not asking us like to go to the motorcycle shop to hang out with him

like he we're gonna go there and he's gonna get us a motorcycle yeah i go hey dude i'm doing shit with my family i'm not fucking going oh shit fucking two hours later dave standing by a fifty five thousand dollar fully loaded fucking most expensive harley davidson in the fucking place he's like yeah i hope you dumb fuck that that ballet class was worth fifty thousand dollars he's all you could have put got it fucking bought the bike come home and sold it and had to pay for your kids ballet till he's fucking 25 i think i remember that i never made that mistake again and what made me think of that is you know i did i immediately went out and took the two-day um uh motorcycle class so that i would have a motorcycle

license in anywhere i and i end up getting some motorcycles out of it yeah i remember that i never did but i wound up buying one but uh oh you paid for that giant one you had? Oh, yeah. Oh, you're a good dude. Those things were crazy. Did you ever put that big one down? I never laid that one down, no. No. I dropped two of my bikes. It sucked.

I never dropped my Harley, but I had this big, huge Africa Twin. And I fell over on it. And you want to know what's worse right right when it fell over dale about a week before it fell over tyson old droid said hey bring your motorcycle into the gym at hq and we'll lay it down and i'll teach you how to stand it up and i'm like no i'm not doing that well a week later this thing fucking falls over in downtown santa cruz and i can't lift it up and a dude fucking a dude naprius stops and gets out in his three-piece suit oh that's a bummer i had to help someone uh at hq who dropped a big heavy harley at a stop sign just it you know stopped and all of a sudden oh shit and boom over it went fell over yeah i think i think i know who it is it's uh it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a weird

thing when it falls over it's kind of 800 pounds i mean the big ones are 800 pounds man it's a very surreal moment yeah and the funny thing is it's like to get it up you need a to pick those things up you need a big deadlift man that's a a big deadlift helps goes a long way so i think you're i ended up going home and watching the video on it you're supposed to back your ass up to it and basically do a squat it's kind of a deadlift but it's kind of yeah yeah and that is the way i tried to lift it up like a deadlift and i was a jackass i got it up like six inches off the ground a few times i just deadlifted it but i had enough of a deadlift and I was a jackass. I got it up like six inches off the ground a few times. I just deadlifted it, but I had enough of a deadlift to pull it off.

I'm low enough to, I got down and was like, just grunted it up. But yeah, I can see that backing it up is right. Yeah. Walk back into it and stand it up. That makes sense. Do you think the lawyers win the case against Facebook and Twitter and kicking people off or no, it's just too big of a juggernaut? I think, i think the discovery is the biggest part of it that you know somewhere i mean it seems to me that somewhere

there's going to be evidence in emails or whatever look it's the same thing that happened when we went up against um uh the nsca you know we filed when i filed that case we filed that case you know across the file the case people were like that's the most ridiculous lawsuit the complaint i remember people saying you know we made some serious claims about fraud and all this other stuff that they had fabricated a study and people were like oh that's ridiculous you guys are nuts this will go nowhere yeah but when when people get under oath and you start asking questions and you start poking around you know particularly in emails man and everybody and then you find out like start poking around you know particularly in emails man and everybody and then you find out like people through oh where's your phone do you talk do you text over about work matters on your

cell phone you know and how many times it just like well my phone i don't have it next thing you know you know you got people lying on the road destroying destroying phones you know we had how many william kramer how many of the senior executives at the NSA destroyed their phones and computers? And that became – spoilation of evidence now becomes like – I mean it's a big deal, man. Can you talk about that case? Have you been put under any gag order about that? There were orders. I didn't – I filed the original one.

I can talk. I can't – there's some things I can say. There's some things I can't say. If I can't say it orders i didn't you know i filed the original one i can talk i can't there's some things i can say there's some things i can't say you know if i can't say it i'll let you know but there i mean the things that are public record a lot of it was public record i mean we tried to make sure that we litigated the whole point of it was to be was to be transparent you know we wanted the open kimono just so you guys heard that that's what i'm always talking about on the show why and can you tell us that i I want to go back. But but before we go back, why did you guys want the case to be transparent? OK, this is a this is a great this is a great story that I'll tell because Greg's talked about it.

It would otherwise be, you know, a discussion we had, but he talked about it openly. I mean, he was very open. One of the first cases I did for for Cross, it's a pretty standard thing if a case settles. For those of you who don't know, Dale was the general counsel at CrossFit. What does that mean? The general counsel is the head lawyer, the head legal person. So – and those fingers go into everything, right? So someone tells us, hey, we have to take some music off some media. We ask Dale if that's true.

Someone gets hurt doing Fran in L1. You ask Dale about it. Someone gets hurt doing Fran and L1. You asked Dale about it. Someone in a gym in fucking Morocco gets bit by a dog. Dale, they call Dale. I mean, it's every, he's, he's basically everywhere in the affiliates and the training and the media. It's just, um, what can we call the company? Why are people in Mexico stealing the names of the gyms? I mean, it's, it's the legal is so important in keeping the company together okay and dale was the head the head guy there he had to make he had to oversee

all of that and i was the the kind of funny thing was i was the maybe more so than the being the gc was i was the first lawyer and so right greg hates lawyers he always had right and i was the first lawyer that openly hates them. Yes. Openly, openly hates them. And so one of the first cases I did, you know, for lawyers, it's a pretty standard. If you're settling a case, it's pretty standard to do non-disclosure agreements, both sides. You know, we're not going to talk about anything. We settle it. Nobody admits anything. And that's just so everybody saves face and we can all go on with our lives. And I did that without, cause I just took it as like a standard, just kind of industry standard and Greg blew a gasket. Oh, was he pissed.

And even though we had, we had won a bunch of money in the case, I've gotten us a really good way to crush this guy who was buying up CrossFit domain names. So he would buy up like CrossFit Los Angeles, he's buying all these domain names, CrossFit San Francisco, you know, just bought like several hundred of them. And then was holding them hostage when we would license new affiliates. This guy would be like, Hey, I'll give you, you know, you're gonna pay $600. So you're charging like 500 bucks, a domain name or whatever affiliates. And so I got, got involved in that. Anyway, we settled it. And I, I was, you know, NDA and Greg, it was one of the few times i mean greg lost his

shit with me and he said i'm not i'm not hiding anything he's like what do i have to hide you know like i want to be able to talk about it i want right a lot of people to know you know like i didn't do anything wrong and from that point on you know it was like i learned a really valuable lesson you know he wanted to litigate and it became clear that, you know, CrossFit legal's reason for existence was largely to protect the value proposition in affiliation. And that meant I couldn't represent the affiliates because they're licensees. They're, they're, we're actually at the opposite end of a license agreement. But on the other hand, they were the meat and potatoes of the business, you know? And so, I mean, that's how we got CrossFit out there. So it was a, it was an interesting thing to be a part of for sure. But the, that's background for the NSCA,

when that case, you know, came up by then we'd had a well-established, like all my, by then I had, you know, eight, nine attorneys and paralegals, whatever working for me, almost a dozen. And everybody knew that, Hey, we're not, we're not the people hiding things. You know, we're not doing anything wrong, man. We're making people fit. And so we don't have anything to hide. And so when somebody- That was always kind of the theme there. We're selling the truth.

Right. We're selling the truth. That's all we're doing. We're selling the truth. The fitness truth, man. So- Yeah, let's start with the truth. And then it ended.

And when Greg finally got rid of the company, it kind of morphed to let's start with the truth. Yeah. Well, and that's where he is start with the truth. Yeah. Well, and that's where he is now with the, yeah. With the new thing, you know,

let's start science. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I'm happy. In fact, I'm going with him in a couple of weeks, I think up to Michigan,

to Michigan. Yeah. That's awesome. To Hillsdale. He asked me to come up. Wow. The wiki article on Hillsdale college is unbelievable. Yeah. It's an amazing institution.

Quick side note. If you need any more evidence that the roots of racism, the KKK separation, if you need any more evidence that it's being harbored, proliferated, curated, that the plantation owners aren't hiding in the democratic party look at the fucking um uh uh wiki wiki article of hillsdale college the most conservative fucking college you've ever heard of the first college in the united states to take black people melanated skin people with melanated skin i don't even like to call them black people people have just different biology fucking nuts they refused to take affirmative action money from the united states because they were going to let in whoever the fuck they wanted yeah only merit refused yeah it's so good go ahead refuse to take federal education dollars so they don't have to comply with affirmative action but they were taking they were taking blacks and women in yes in 1847 or

something yeah and they first in the country they were taking women they were taking blacks and women yeah on i know it's kind of funny on equal footing you graduate you get a degree you get an education i mean they just treat all people were equal to them it's an amazing most people don't realize that's a it's a peculiarly you know that notion we get it from of equality um whether it's before the law or just we're all equal is a is a peculiarly christian notion it didn't exist in the ancient world that that notion is a is a peculiar the first it's gregory of chrysopis i think or something i'd have to go look this up but there's some you can find if you noodle around but one of the first people to suggest that, you know, even the Stoics as well developed as the Greeks were, and Stoicism might be one of the greatest philosophies of the ancient

world, even Stoicism kind of accepted that slavery was always just kind of, we're always going to have it, you know, here's another, Hey, I'll give you a hot take. Hey, love is new too, right? Marriage for love. I mean, that's, that's a relatively more modern concept. Isn't that a trip? Yeah. But it makes sense. Why don't someone say that again?

The French really give us notions of chivalry. That all comes out of France, mostly, filtered through the English. But the French, you know, Middle Ages, knights and all of that, and romance, the idea you know middle ages knights and all of that and and romance the idea that men should woo women and all of that that comes out of uh out of france and we kind of owe the french for that do you know i've been experiencing something more intense than love oh this is interesting that there's not a name for and and what's funny is since it transcends love there's there's also i understand the the the merits of not marrying for love but marrying for uh survival like it's more important it's way more important to me than my family survives than my family loves me it it it transcends all that shit it's a trip i've just

lately been really really understanding it it's um i know dale i've been to places in africa dale i've been to three continents where i filmed famine three different continents yeah and and i've been to all the continents and filmed some horrible shit. And I was just thinking the other day, I could go back to those places with the resources I have and probably save lives. And I knowingly don't do that. And I've known that in the back of my mind for 20 years. Yeah. And I have to live with that. But nothing's more – but it doesn't even matter because I'm – I don't even let it creep into my brain because I'm singularly focused on the survival of my three kids and my wife.

Yeah. I mean, again, it comes back to what we were talking about before. Like what's your, it's about moral responsibility. What, what are you actually, what's on your ledger? You know what? I mean, you have to, those are like deep questions. You know, what's, what am I responsible for? What, what on the, you know, What do I actually have moral account for?

Those are important questions, big questions. Unfortunately, we don't ask those anymore. And school does nothing to help people grapple with the big questions. Everything's small now. Everything's – And instead of just facing it to the fact that I – instead of facing it to the fact that I have shortcomings or that we have shortcomings, like, Hey, I'm not going over.

We try to defend why we do it. I'm not trying to defend it at all. I'm not trying to defend. I'm not trying to justify using this phone at all. I'm not trying to justify that I'm pro-choice at all. It sucks that babies die. I'm not trying to, but we live in a society that just can't admit that they don't know or that

they're wrong, but they're still going to go forward with it. Well, yeah. It's rationalization that's gross um is it just me or is dale jack yeah dale's jack dale what's your all-time best back squat uh four either four and a quarter or 435 and and you at one point you had did you ever break the three minute in the fran i got 306 yeah okay well i thought i thought one time i saw you break it um maybe at del mar in the garage there maybe i i was close i mean i worked really hard that was a life that was like my you know 11 second hundred or whatever it was you know it was like pick a target you know that matters to you that was one of my like i wanted a three minute friend yeah um okay sorry so um and so nsca um that that case um you were gonna tell um yeah i'll know i'll tell you can you tell us just how i would love to know even the the most minute detail how, since you started that case, how that popped up on your radar.

And for those of you who don't know, the NSCA case was when someone accused a CrossFit gym in Ohio of injuring people, and it turned into a fucking nightmare for these liars. Yeah, it was a study that they published in the Journal of Strength and Conditioning and the – I think it's the JSC or Journal of Strength and Cond and conditioning research or whatever it is, the flagship publication of the NSCA. And it was a, it was a falsified study and we knew pretty quick, but I'll tell you that the NSCA battle went back to my, like the early that I have emails going back to that. You know, Greg had been talking about that for quite a while. I mean, when I first came on, that was on the radar. And what year, what year are you thinking? Oh, seven. Oh, that was on the radar. What year are you thinking? 07, 08.

Okay. Okay. Maybe even further back. Yeah. And the interesting thing about it was that we just didn't have the resources. That was the reality of it. They were doing crazy stuff. They got a seminar canceled.

Some of the folks at the NSC,CA got a seminar canceled over on a military base through the Air Force. We had a seminar all set up. Like on a Friday, we got word that all of a sudden we're getting kicked off base. We can't hold it. The Air Force is reneged. And now we can't have a seminar. We got all these people that have flown into the country and there they are. And the NSCA was behind that through their channels. And ultimately, we were able to, the nice thing about the suit was we were able to get all of that evidence in, even though we were past the statute of limitations for being able to sue over that. But we were able to get that course of conduct in front of the judge. And that was hugely helpful. But it's I was talking about it in the context of, you know, even big companies, the NSCA was seen as the 800 pound gorilla in fitness and they got crushed.

And this, you know, Facebook meta, you know, Twitter, I think Twitter's in a, in a hurt locker. I mean, I, I, I think Twitter, to be honest with you, I think Twitter is largely, I think it's always been, I think that's a government, that's a government. I wouldn't be surprised if that was funded with DARPA money or something. It an interesting thing yeah it's a megaphone that's all twitter is twitter's like you know the bullhorns you know the you know you yeah it's just a bullhorn it amplifies and so when elon musk said how many bots are there i was like oh it's got to be i've always imagined that it was it's largely fake it's a propaganda it's a psyop tool it's meant to fool

people into thinking that something's more important or louder than than it really is and so i always believe that was yeah that's always the fugazi to me that's that's a that's all fake the benghazi stuff no i said it's fugazi that's a oh that's an italian yeah yeah yeah sorry you broke up dale i have to i have to do do something really quick sorry um there's this uh all of a sudden your bob your body has become a fast dale has no neck no it's a really yeah um dale reminds me of the pe teacher a pe teacher at school he's built like a wrestler crossfit is awesome even the lawyers are yoked uh brick house uh they're just there's just they're going nuts in here uh does dale take human growth hormone no no thank you i guess that's a compliment dale what is darpa

darpa is the uh defense advanced research projects agency i believe and it's a uh a skunk works uh dod cia they've had the sr-71 blackbird that was a darPA project. Cold War era DARPA project was the SR-71. And wouldn't you know that Moderna, the company that got the vaccine, they got millions of dollars in DARPA money to research viruses and vaccines. and vaccines. So, yeah, that's money that the, the Department of Defense hands out for different technologies and, you know,

ideas that they have for the future. And frequently it's wasted, but sometimes things come out of it. You know, I went to, I went to dinner one time with Greg and the, and the CEO of Twitter. Oh, back when it was Dor dorsey who was before dorsey yeah i don't know was it a guy named bob it's a famous name too

fuck ceo is it anyway uh it wasn't dorsey was the guy it was the guy i mean i'm gonna i want to look real quick i was gonna going to say, now you're going to make me check. CEO of Twitter. Twitter CEOs. Not this Parag guy. No, not Parag. It's not Jack Dorsey. Noah Glass, Biz Stone, Evan Williams.

Noah Glass. Maybe the first guy. First CEO of, maybe it was Jack Dorsey. he didn't look like that first ceo of twitter could have been the cf could have been somebody else no no it maybe it was jack dorsey wouldn't surprise me if it were we we went and we went and heard one of his friends this lady speak in San Francisco and then afterwards we had dinner there wasn't a guy named Bob Bob fucking

founder let me see founder of Twitter founder of Twitter wrote in pounder of Twitter uh not Evan Williams Noah Glass no okay it must have been jack dorsey fuck okay and recently i noticed that um uh uh so so i i think um uh uh what the fuck is that guy's name joe rogan has come to dorsey's defense like he basically was saying that well it's not dorsey's fault that

they were censoring all these people and i'm like what the fuck i'm struggling with that like fuck you fuck both of you well instead that they he's come out and said publicly he's kind of taken the taken rogan's side and said hey we you know they shouldn't be censoring people we ought to be so he's come out and kind of been on the el side of things like, yeah, the throttling people, throttling conservatives is not the answer. That's, that's not right. And so Joe's probably defending him on those grounds, but the idea that. It's too little too late, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. You set that up. But I, like I said,

I've always thought it was that the entire notion of Twitter, that it's not organic, it's curated. And that means that it's, it's no different than the headlines at the Washington post. What's being, what's being put out there in front of you isn't just a result of, Oh, this is the most popular thing. It's it you've got chicken and egg backwards. You know, it's kind of, that's not how it works. It's they're making editorial choices about what's going to be out there curated that's a great way to put it same with instagram yeah of course and that's how someone like you i mean i

noticed it too like i would post things and and they would just disappear and die and i'll tell you what it is is it's it's an attempt to control narrative that's all it is it's story wars it's making sure that the story that you want out there is what's front facing. And that's, you know, it's no different than the New York Times, what they choose to put on the front page. It's all fake, all of it. I don't, so I don't really watch or read any of it. I mean, well, you know, we've talked about this and what's his face did the whole, the whole gel man or gel man amnesia effect that uh michael crichton coined that phrase he said you're reading the paper right and you're you read

something a story pops up that you know something about like say for you it was arm wrestling or whatever right there's something you like whatever it is something you really know about you read it and you're like that's bullshit like you just you completely right no idea what they're talking about that is horseshit right then you flip the page and you read some foreign policy story and you're like oh my god israel did that how amazing it's like you got amnesia uh reading that this is bullshit and i gotta tell you it's really funny because i had this experience with greg with a great experience we were at uh pipes cafe there down in uh solana beach we're having breakfast and we're meeting and there was some big story that had come out and i remember it was some piece in something that got a bunch of run

and it was about biking and it might have had to do with the drug use in biking or something like whatever you know and so greg had asked me had i seen the story and i was like yeah i read it you know and i was and i don't really know anything about that like greg did you know he so Greg had asked me had I seen the story and I was like yeah I read it you know and I was and I don't really know anything about that like Greg did you know he's into bikes he was and I said what did you think and he's like well I only know about a couple things he goes but I and I was like really and I thought it was just really well because it was like a deep it was like this deep dive you know long form kind form kind of piece. And so I thought, oh, it's gotta be amazing. And then, and then Greg said to me, has, have you ever read anything about like, if you've ever read stories about helicopter flying that the media has done, you know, about being a helicopter pilot? I'm like, haven't been that many of those. I go,

yeah. You know, he goes, did they ever get it right? And I was like, no, not even close. He's like, why? And he goes goes why do you think it's only your thing and that was the moment the lights went on you know i was like oh shit you know yeah yeah i mean why is it why is it only that subject they fuck up it's only yours and yet you assume the truth of everything else they write about everybody else you know what i'm tripping on what i'm really tripping on and it's been about a year now i'm tripping on it is the fact that things are being presented as real and asking people to weigh in on them when they're not real and i keep using the the metaphor for

dale let's debate whether bigfoot has hair or fur and and that and that's how i feel about gender and people are weighing in on so there's people who know who've never thought about gender in their life before they have no idea what gender is and yet they're weighing in on it and if you ask them if gender is real they say yeah and then you then you would say okay define real for me is this stapler real and they say yeah okay and then i say show me gender you're you want to debate gender when so they ask what gender are you to someone and someone answers you but they don't even know it's just it's and then i talk about that's why it's important we don't conflate sex and gender sex is real penis vagina gender's

imaginary yeah and and i and i would say 99 of the people I interact with can't understand why that's significant. And yet it is at the origin of all the confusion and debate. So I see the whole debate going on up here like it's real. Bigfoot has fur. No, Bigfoot has hair. And I'm like, holy shit. You've all been duped by a liar's question. Does Bigfoot – what gender are you?

It's like. Yeah. Hey, it's funny you say that. What the fuck is going? I refused to use Jason Kalipa's app the other day. He has this beautiful app. He sent it to me. He said, will you try it?

I look at it. It says, what gender are you? I'm not any gender. I just closed the app. I'm not any gender. I have no gender. I don't do it. I don't do it.

I don't do delusion. You're taking your junk out and taking a picture yeah which pokemon creature am I I'm not it's fucking idiocy it goes back to what we talked about

last time right we're back to the same notion reification right right right reification yeah that was the word hey even even even um what what ethnicity you are has a component of that yeah there's a certain amount of that yeah like you're not you're like you were playing in the delusion like mexicans are the perfect example 400 years ago you didn't exist you were right you were raped by the spaniards native americans were

raped by the spaniards and now we call you mexicans just to kind of give you a spot and we gave you a religion catholicism here you go be on your way that's the truth right yeah you should have your own show you ever see that drunk history we should have seve's history it's only like 47 seconds long. So the NSCA case, you, I mean, when you see the case and you see the 16 injuries,

you don't know right away. It's a, it's a lie, right? You have to, can you tell me like how did you ever, when, when Greg told you,

Hey, file the case, did you have any pushback or anything where you're like, no, Greg, we can't, this is legit. We had been looking,

we had been waiting. I mean, that I'd be honest with you when, that happened it was like that was the they gave us the excuse we needed they really did they gave us good good cause that we otherwise were we didn't kind of quite didn't really have and so that was meaning you wanted to sue them all along you wanted to like get in a tussle with them because you wanted to depose them or you wanted a discovery or what? Yes, to both. OK. And and more, you know, as a larger goal. I mean, I think Greg always, you know, you know, it was about academic fitness.

He had been dead set on proving they were all frauds for. I mean, how many times did he say it like openly in public? They're frauds. He, how many times the, uh, challenge any to say anybody proved to me what academic fitness is actually like, you know, like sports science or whatever you want to call it, exercise physiology or whatever academic fitness, he used to call it. He's like, he used to challenge people. And then when he met Tim Noakes, he said that Tim Noakes, after reading water reading waterlogged he said that was the one example that he could point to he had always you know he publicly said that tim noakes and and waterlogged was the one example of you know

exercise physiology actually contributing something useful to to actual exercise to actually getting people fitter you know he used to say that yeah that's how he feels about all academic science now yes it's just all a complete shit show the replication crisis all that shit yeah it's it's it means largely i mean you know it's correct in fact the my the litigation over the vaccine you know greg said i'm doing we talked about this. What I'm doing is actually a specific case of the larger he's, he's generalized, you know, by going and putting together a science curriculum and trying to, you know, kind of bring science back to what it is, the objective branch of human knowledge. I love that. I love that he's staked out that turf. But by doing that, you know, what I'm dealing with, like, if we didn't have an innumerate populace and largely illiterate and innumerate, you could never pull this off years of college was in as an aerospace engineering student.

Then I decided I want to chase skirt. Once I got my flight guarantee, I knew I was going to be a pilot. I knew I didn't have to build them to fly them. But I still I went through all of that. You know, I was a post maintenance function. I was a test pilot. So numbers don't they don't scare me. I'm pretty fluent with them. But we largely have an innumerate populace now. I'm pretty fluent with them, but we largely have an innumerate populace now. Yeah, and with that comes the inability to do risk assessment. You know what I think is a better way to say it than maybe innumerate is no one contextualizes or puts things in relativity. So when you hear Mexico City has 30 million, I don't think most people go, okay,'s the size of california that's the same number of people of california or when they say um you have a one in a million

chance of the vaccine actually helping you and you have a two in a million chance of it hurting you they they they don't even know how to process that they don't they don't like okay uh it's they have no way to to put it in context of something else that they know. Like actually you have a 1 in 500,000 chance of every time you get in the car of dying. Right. Well, that's because statistics are tough, and there are two different concepts in statistics, and it's directly relevant to what you're talking about. There's absolute risk and there's relative risk. Right.

relevant to what you're talking about. There's absolute risk and there's relative risk. Right. And so you want to know both in order to make an informed decision about like, like I was just, and I, it's why the, so many people in the military have risen up against the vaccine mandates is because I think in especially pilots, because in their, their training is all about taking really serious risks, like things with if something goes wrong, the risk of harm is huge. Like if you get it wrong in a plane, you know, you can't pull over to the side of the road. Like you've got a lot of problems. So the risk of harm is really high, but you can do a lot of things to mitigate,

to keep even though the risk of harm is high, you can keep the possibility of risk really low. And so, you know, when you're, when you make your living, making really fine distinctions about risk, when you see the vaccine, you're like, well, my risk of getting ill is like one in a billion, like, and, and the harm from it's I'm healthy. Eh, you know, I'm probably going to be fine. And from it's i'm healthy yeah you know i'm probably gonna be fine and then it's an unknown product but why would i want to take on an unknown risk for the known risk really isn't that serious to me you know right right and so a lot of the like over 300 of my clients in this lawsuit i've got down in texas are pilots i like the risk of arms way high on from vaccine i want to try to explain this to people super duper fast and feel free to jump in and unfuck me almost everything presented

to you people from pharmaceutical companies almost everything i'm talking like 99 of all the data they present to you is through uh relative risk they don't present right they don't present the absolute and i'm going to explain to you really quickly how that works so if they do a study of 10 people and oh man they have two groups of people they have 10 people over here and 10 people over here. They have the control group of 10 people, and then they have the group that's taking the medication of 10 people. And in the control group of two people die, but in the side that took the medication, only one person dies, they'll tell you you have 100% better survival rate if you take the medication. Were you able to follow that? They'll tell you the exact same thing if there were 100 million people in the study. So now imagine there's 100 million people over here and 100 million people over here. And over here in the control group, two people die. And over here in the group that took the medication, only one person dies. They'll still tell you it had a 100% effective rate.

still tell you it had a 100% effective rate. And the public is buying that. It doesn't matter how many people are in the study. They're just taking the people who were affected by the medication. And at that point, these studies that are so big, especially the front, these ones that went around the vaccine, those numbers are just outliers. Like we don't know anything about the people. Did they have comorbidities? Did they not? How i mean it's just it's a complete shit show and you're being just totally manipulated and they're not hiding this anyone can look this up yeah but but what i just said is too complicated for don lemon to explain to you on cnn so no one so no one's do you think did that make sense dale what i said yes you I mean, it's, they're lying and the pharmaceutical companies, there's nobody better at it than them. I mean, Marsha Engel was the, was the head of the New

England Journal of Medicine, first female head of the New England Journal of Medicine. And she was all the rage among New York Times and all that back in, I think it was 2008 or six or something. She published a novel after, after being the first female head of the New England Journal of Medicine, arguably the most prestigious medical journal in the country, maybe in the world. And she wrote a book called How Pharma Deceives Us, I think it's called. And you can't read that book and come to any other conclusion other than that pharma has captured the agencies that are supposed to regulate them. And that happened a long time ago, but in the same way that the USDA, you know,

is captured by big ag, you know, the joke about Conagra and all the like Archer Daniels Midland is that they harvest more in DC than they do in Nebraska. You know, I mean, like all those corn subsidies, the farm bill.

Yeah. There you go. Yeah. 2005, you know? Yeah. You can't help but read it. And then now if you go type in her name, and now what you'll find is a bunch of articles, and Google will spit out a bunch of articles that say how Marsha Engel was wrong.

Marsha Engel's not. She wasn't really right about pharma, you know? Now pharma's all our friends. They're wonderful. They're all good. It's crazy. I think Richard Smith was the editor for 30 years of the British Medical Journal, and he said more than half of the stuff in there is complete bullshit. Yeah.

Yeah, that Richard Smith video is amazing. And it's just like a homemade YouTube video, you know, 15 minutes. So, so when you file, when you file the suit, can you, can you tell me, you file the suit against them. Can you tell me about it and about how you sent the lawyers to depose the people who were injured? Can you tell that first little chapter? No, it was even quicker than that. I mean, I'll just tell you, we got the, we, Russ Berger got on the phone and just called. We knew, you know, that was the great thing. I think that people didn't really realize. And a lot of people didn't, I think the people who bought CrossFit didn't really understand about it, you know, is that every affiliate, like

for the first thousand affiliates, every affiliate was somebody that we knew personally. Like I was, I remember when I got, you know, I applied to be an affiliate owner in December of 07. And I was, I think I got my approval in like March of 08 or something like that. And I was the 350 something affiliate. You know, I remember being somewhere in the middle 300s and people didn't realize that, you know, Greg and H2 staff had really personal relationships, especially with the early affiliates, the first thousand, we all knew really well. And so as a result, when it was like, you know, NSCA publishes this paper in preprint that says 16 people were injured in a study.

And, you know, somebody sent it to us. And so we're like, it's in Ohio. I mean, we know, like, we can look and see who are our affiliates there. So we just get on the phone and we're like, call up Mitch Potter. And we're like, Mitch, you know, what did 16 people? He's like, what? He goes, I was in that study. He's like, what are you talking about?

Yeah. And so, I i mean it was that kind of like instantly we knew i mean instantly we knew yeah before that ever we didn't need discovery to know they were bullshitting we needed discovery to prove it you know so they're not even slick at all no just just cavalier in their corruptness. Yeah, in the same way that most, you know, I've always said that the whole notion of evil genius is really a misnomer. Because if you're really a genius, you don't need to use evil shit to make money or get what you want. You can just, you're smart. You can just do it.

And so what most people who are doing evil shit are usually lazy and it's a character defect. It's not, it's nothing more than you've got a rotten character there's you've got you know and maybe that's caused by something in your life or whatever but you're you're you've got character flaws man you've got deep deep problems you know and and man russell burger is an amazing are you in touch with russell at all uh recently i bumped into someone i bumped into someone who's who he sent a message through an intermediary uh to me so i'm gonna reach out to him yeah i need to reach out to him too he's such a special human being yeah and the guy who

told me that said the same thing he's somebody who said hey by the way russ berger sends his regards i was like what how do you know russ berger and i can't really say how the guy what the guy's relationship was with him but when he told me i kind of laughed and and uh i said man that guy's something else on it and the guy without prompting was like holy cow that's one you know like that's one unique sob man you should have him on yeah i do need to have him he's actually he might be smaller than Chris Buehler. And I think he, he, I mean, ah, they're close.

I think Russ, he was a special athlete too. Russ was about 150, 155 pounds. And Spiegel was, yeah, he, a 150.

I mean, Russ could probably get down lower than that, but he was like one walked around at about 150 and Spiel walked around at about 140. I think Russ was a little bit, a little bigger than spiel but not much and and strong like spiel too for his size russ brought a shit ton it's crazy i i remember um uh garth taylor you know he's the first i think american to win the black belt brazilian uh jiu-jitsu championships in brazil big dude over 300 pounds and he and he used to teach uh did you ever roll with him at hq dale yeah you did okay so you know russ when russ was like a purple belt

yeah and and russ got and russ almost choked him out i remember garth telling me that he goes holy fuck i go what he goes that fucking little dude over there got on my fucking back grapple with an otter you know and he had endless energy i mean it was like trying to hold a ferret you know you're like these all you guys can go look at some crazy shit he did he did some crazy rowing shit with weight vests and some he he did some nice shit okay so so um russell called william Kramer and recorded the call or something, right? Yeah, I vaguely recall some of the – yeah, he did a bunch of that stuff. He approached him at – didn't they get media? Him and Green approached him at the conference, I remember.

And William Kramer claimed that they had accosted him. They just tried to interview him, and he freaked out because he figured out who they were. And, you know, that was the last thing he wanted a piece of was those two. Yeah. Yeah. They were, they were something else. Okay. So, so then you, we sent CrossFit Inc sent lawyers to depose the 16 people or the 11 people.

How, how, how many people was it again? 16. Do you remember? I think originally they, they claimed that like 16 people had been injured in a study of, I forget how many. And then, you know, of course we got declarations from all of them and, you know, as many as we could. And I mean, it was crazy. Some of them were like, some of them were like, I didn't, I wasn't injured. I like, I told them I had to take the bar exam. You know, they were like, One of them was a law student who was taking the bar exam. He's like, I wasn't injured. That's a lie. And we did all of that. And ultimately,

we got the complaint together, drafted it. And then the real turning of the case was when we asked them, we started deposing a bunch of uh nsca employees and we're asking about okay did you consider crossfit arrival no no no we weren't rivals we're an academic you know organization and all that and the fact of matter was we were crushing them you know in the marketplace in terms of people actually you know availing themselves of crossfit seminars or crossfit education nsca had never done a seminar outside of the united states and cross it was fucking on basically every continent except antarctica yeah yeah and we had an affiliate in antarctica right right okay and and so and then

so you the the turning point was they said that they were an academic institution but in discovery you found hey this is you found documentation that showed they saw us as a rival. Yeah. And I mean, that was the big one was we caught, we caught somebody lying under oath. And, and then what was amazing to me was the big, the real big screw up was then the NSCA got pissed off enough because of what Berger, you know, had been publishing. Some of the stuff we've been publishing on our site, that they sued us.

So the NSCA countersued us in California state court. So we had a federal action that was basically a trademark defamation case, a business defamation case in federal district court in San Diego. And then they sued us in state court. And that runs afoul of, you can't counter-sue someone in state court when you've got a federal court action statutes called anti-SLAPP statutes, where you're basically trying to shut down a lawsuit by claiming that the person who's suing you is defaming you by their lawsuit. And anyway, it's a whole convoluted kind of legal thing. So they tried to sue us in state court and we could have gotten the thing shut down. But what we did was we got discovery in the state suit and in the state

court discovery, the judge granted electronic discovery. And when we got the electronic discovery in state court, what we did was we ran that against what the NSCA had given us in federal court. And it showed they had been lying and hiding things and destroying evidence. And one of the same witnesses, when confronted with that, admitted under oath that he had lied, that he had purged himself in the federal court case. And that – and then basically it just came unraveled. The whole thing just – So in the federal case, you're like, okay, we're going to go search your panty drawer. And they said, we don't have a panty drawer. And in the state case, you said, we're going to search your panty drawer. And they're like, okay, we're going to go search your panty drawer, and they said we don't have a panty drawer.

And in the state case, you said we're going to search your panty drawer, and they're like, here it is. So now not only did you find more shit, but you show that someone's lying. Yes, basically, yeah. Wow. And that's why I started seeing all of these documents coming out of the court at that point that Greg would share with everyone that basically the judge was saying he's never seen corruption like this in 30 years on the bench. He's never seen iPads being destroyed, lying, like a million emails, right? A lie about like a million emails. Yeah, nuts.

And so the only – I guess we can only speculate the reason why they made up injuries about crossfit that's like the worst thing you could say right that's what greg would always say the worst thing you could say and that's not yeah about about a gym is that it hurts people yeah it's the worst possible thing it's the it's you know for a lawyer i mean each profession has its own like what's the worst thing you could say about your lawyer he leaked leaked my private conversations. You know, he gave up the attorney client privilege or, you know, I don't know, pick like, you know, my priest, my priest, I heard him in the coffee shop telling people about my confession. Right. You'd be like, that's it. It's over. You're done. And so for, you know, the equivalent for a gym owner is, yeah, I went to this guy as a trainer

and he's hurting people. I mean, that's the the it's like saying you went to a doctor and he operates on the wrong foot you know and he's not saying that about one gym he's saying it about i wonder how many gyms there were at that time you think 10 000 uh definitely all seven continents right yeah oh yeah yeah we're by that time it was at least eight grand maybe close to 10 i, I don't know, somewhere in that range. Yeah, I mean, we were, that was when we were booming. And so basically, it's a direct attack on all of those. And how many people did we know? And I'm painting a dramatic story, but I think it's accurate.

How many people did we know that were a husband and wife, the wife was pregnant with their second kid, and they basically both quit their jobs and went all in to do the right thing to open a gym that could cure the world's most vexing problem right yeah we i mean yeah how many people do we know like that yeah yeah shit loads and so then they're basically lied about and by the way it's one of the things that you know greg used to always talk about to dale and i for sure and tons of people, that CrossFit was a small business miracle. Yes. It's 15,000 small businesses pop up. These are people being employed all over the world doing something that they love and trying to make a living doing it.

Yeah. And all the toilet paper that's sold and cleaners and gyms. And you really want to know where the miracle is. Check out Bill Henninger's bank account. I mean, yeah. I mean mean someone noble tried to say the other day that they were the first first brand to do what they're doing i'm like motherfucker bill dumped millions of dollars into fucking hq on a fucking handshake yeah because bill i'd go over there and fucking grab that dude and slap him around a little bit i mean they did i think i

don't know the first company to do what they did, that's a weird. I'd be curious to hear what their claim is. Dude, I know you don't watch the scene anymore, but it's a fucking shit show. It is a. I know enough. It's an avalanche. Man. Hey, the grass is always greener on the other side.

You know what I mean? Like you hated Trump. Now you got Biden. Now what? You hated Reebok. now you got biden now what you hated reebok now you got noble it's like it's it's it's always always be careful what you throw away hey i have bill henniger yeah go ahead you'll love this one my buddies uh when i was i was a pilot and i became a lawyer right and so um i i'm in quantico virginia a helicopter pilot yeah yeah i flew attack helicopter so um i'm back now working as a prosecutor at Quantico and that's where the president's

squadron is, HMX-1. So the president's helicopter squadron is, that's Marine Helicopter Squadron 1, HMX-1, is located at Quantico at the airfield there. And so they fell into my jurisdiction. So I bumped into some of my boys, guys I'd gone to flight school with, and now they left their fleet squadron, or they were flying transport helicopters or whatever. And they're now flying in the president's helicopter squadron. So I run into some of my old boys. And one of them, guys,

was a hardcore Republican. And I ran into him in Obama was in office. And I remember he had been like, the world is ending when Clinton was president and and so i bumped into him and obama was in office i said hey i had to i saw him at the club and i had to give it to him hard i was like hey i bet you never thought you'd see the day that you'd suck a dick to have bill clinton back wouldn't you he was like fuck you man so to your point about be careful the grass is always greener you know he thought he thought bill clinton was the end of all that draft dodging piece of shit. I'm like, hey, I hit a balanced budget and your country was booming. It was like, why? Why do you think people don't push back on the truth so hard?

truth so hard i'll give you an example like so just like the like like the issues around uh absolute uh statistics and relative statistics relative numbers and the way pharma why do you think people want to believe that the that there is vaccine efficacy that it's effective why won't they just listen for a second hey for the same reason for the same reason that crossfit was even successful how many i mean greg used to say it if if the world wasn't grossly fucked up if people for the same reason, for the same reason that CrossFit was even successful. How many, I mean, Greg used to say it, if, if the world wasn't grossly fucked up, if people knew what they needed to know about nutrition and exercise, we wouldn't have a business. And the it's the, how many people want to believe that they're going to fix their health? How many people, how many people would say that again? You broke up, say that again. How many people would, how many people want to believe that say that again you broke up say that again how many

people what how many people want to believe that they're going to fix their health their problems with a pill how many you know rather than like hang on you have to fix your diet you're gonna have to put in some work every day i mean it we we are a um country that has been because of the amazing progress that capitalism and you know free us, you know, in 200 years, we went from being a country that was chopping down trees to build homes, to building skyscrapers and, you know, dominating the world. We did that in less, like in a hundred years, you know, in 1787, you know, you had to chop down a tree and shoot a bear to keep it from killing your kids and all that. And, you know, in 1887, now we're a world power, you know, 100 years later.

That's free markets. And because of that, we fundamentally, we got soft. And people, nobody wants to hear that. Like my grandfather, you know, grew up in the Depression. During the Depression, he used to take, they used to cook in the morning, whatever they had, big slab of bacon or whatever. And then when the bacon fat in the pan would congeal, and that's what my grandfather would get for sandwiches to take to work, was congealed lard sandwiches, basically. And, you know, people like, that sounds insane to people now. And my grandfather shrugged his shoulders and would be like, you know, pretty good, you know people like that sounds insane to people now and my grandfather shrugged his shoulders and would be like you know uh pretty good you know yeah because the alternative was

and now you've got people who are like oh i just want to take a pill and the problem's solved you know how many advertisements do you see for burn fat faster? Or, you know, I mean, the farmers just all they've done is take advantage of the desire that we have to hack to be more efficient, to do things more quickly. And in many ways, CrossFit was, I mean, CrossFit's an old school kind of notion. You know, it's the same thing. Greg, he was like, hey, man, you're gonna have to work hard. Remember? And you wouldn't want it any other way. Because as it turns out, that's also what develops the habits of character. That's where virtue is developed, is in that struggle. In fact, you'll love this. Take full circle that's you know what the motto is for hilldale hillsdale college it's a latin but it's uh virtue delights in the struggle or or temptation there's

a bunch of different translation but it's strength you know strength longs for the challenge or virtue uh you know appreciates the temptation or you know you don't get virtue unless you have its opposite you don't you know if it doesn't if there is no dichotomy you don't virtue doesn't exist if there isn't bad you know you have to delight in the temptation that you know this is yeah yeah this is where virtue shows itself yeah this is where strength this is where strength of character shows itself you know well yesterday uh one of my son took his gray belt his you know that goes like um yeah in the kids there's three gray belts so he went for a second gray belt yesterday and uh he said uh and he's the youngest kid in the class to

get it and uh we're driving there and he's like man i am so nervous and i go that's awesome and he goes why is that awesome i'm like because that just a, I've never heard you say that. Or I haven't heard you say that since the last tennis tournament you went to. I go, what a great feeling. He goes, I don't understand. Why would it be good? I go, Hey dude, when your mom was pregnant with you and it was uncomfortable, she, I remember hearing her tell herself, I'm going to enjoy this. This is my experience. And he got it. He goes, she just said that. And I was like, yeah, he goes, so this is my experience. I go, yeah, I go enjoy this. And it's like you said, right. You enjoy the, enjoy, like enjoy those challenges.

Yeah. Virtue delights in the, you know, strength delights in the challenge. Yeah. And it can be emotion. It can be uncomfortability. Yeah. It can be emotion. It can be uncomfortability. Yeah. Dale, when they overturned Roe versus Wade, Wade with a D? Yeah. When they overturned Roe v. Wade.

I sound smart when I say it like that. want to see if i if i understand this correctly all they said before the federal government said abortion had to be legal in all 50 states and all they said with the overturn of it is is that roe v wade the federal government had no business weighing in on whether it was legal, which also makes it so because the federal government no longer the same it's like it's like we have a master that was telling us abortion is legal but by telling us that it's illegal that master also has the power to say it's illegal and basically that power of our master has been abolished yeah so instead of celebrating that we're upset yeah and when i think of it like that i'm like what the fuck is wrong with these pro-choice and then of course i know the big problem is because most of the pro-choice people think that the government made abortion illegal

but it's not even close to that it yes yeah the thing is do they just not know how to think is that is that what's going on people don't know how to think or savvy if it's just it goes back to what you said earlier remember when you said you know when you accept the initial premise i had a law school professor you know it does bigfoot is big it's hair or fur yeah you know and so when i had a law professor mel czar i still remember this he was at my head for civil procedure one and civil procedure two and he was a great great teacher and he used to say he had a bunch of little phrases stock phrases he had but he used to talk about he said i don't care what the issue is if you let me control the question

i'll win it does i don't need anything else all i want is to be able to control what the question is yeah crazy and i was i mean it was a he was a he was a smart dude and he understood you know and so the people screaming about it and it by the way it includes like i i think i kind of grew up pro choice you know i was raised by a single mom and you know my sister's a social worker and um i had that same sense but you, you don't even need to be like that. Which just screams of indoctrination, by the way. Me too. And me too, by the way. My mom was a lawyer for the county. Right. And, but you know, the funny thing is when I went to law school, you don't need to be a constitutional scholar. Like when you,

they teach Roe v. Wade comes up, you know, late and like in con law too, I think, you know, you go through con law one then you get to con law two and like any course like any university course you know in law school when you go through you'll appreciate this is kind of funny but like if you were studying naval history like the history of you know shipping or whatever you would you would perceive the same way you'd start with like earliest versions you know historical big naval battles you know the age of sail the british empire you know what i mean you go along i had the technology technological advances and you'd study all that the you know uh the advent of steel bottomed boats blah blah blah right and you go through well you know when you do the constitution when you take con law one in

law school you take con law one and Law II, it's the same thing. And so you start with like the earliest decisions, Marbury versus Madison and about judicial authority and you work your way forward. You know, you don't get to abortion until 1973. So and the problem is that I reread the decision and I kind of studied up for today to reread it and go back and read some other things. And it's a really hard sell. You don't really need to be a constitutional scholar because the 14th Amendment to the Constitution, the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments came right in the period 1865 to 1870. They're usually called the Reconstruction Amendments. And so they came about after the Civil War. And the 14th Amendment was basically, the 13th Amendment abolished slavery, 1865. And then the 14th Amendment, in response, a lot of the

Southern states started passing these laws to basically make life miserable for free Blacks. And so the 14th Amendment was passed in response to that and ratified. It basically said no state could deprive a citizen of the privileges and immunities of citizenship. And it's kind of a vague thing, but the clear – So to protect the slaves from states that were still trying to fucking find ways to fuck them. Yep. Okay. That was the 14th amendment okay you know you fast forward a hundred years you know or more now

almost 105 years you get to roe v wade and now the supreme court justice is saying that the right to abortion is found in the 14th amendment substantive due process clause i mean that's a that's a hard sell you know like the 14th amendment was passed to keep southern states from you know and and trying to analogize and and ginsburg knew it right she even said hey this isn't gonna stick and she was the hardcore lib right yeah she every you didn't you didn't need to be a constitutional constitutional scholar to appreciate that basically the supreme court created roe v wade on a whole cloth that there had been anti-abortion laws it was illegal why did they do that was that that that is that

what politics is yeah yeah hey the supreme court is is almost always chosen all the supreme court justices come through the same pipeline they all go to the same law schools, Yale, Harvard. Yale's had like a big, huge majority of the Supreme Court justices have all come from Yale. They all clerk for a justice. They, you know, clerk for a federal judge. They do the same pipeline. They go to a big firm and you don't have any diversity of thought whatsoever. You just got this monolith. And what are they fundamentally? That's people who read the New York Times. They're liberals. They're upper middle class, white, proggy liberals from big cities who think they know more about the world than they fundamentally do. And that's what I mean, they all believe that, you know, well, you've got to women have to have the unfettered right to be able to. To be able to I don't want to I don't want to overstate, but to be able to terminate a pregnancy because they, God forbid, that would get in the way of their career or their. I mean, that's really what's going on, you know, their ability to go to law school or their ability to, you know, I mean, it's reveal a lot of in those opinions because of their choice to have unprotected sex yeah which is ultimately what it comes comes

back to yeah so so women do have a choice and men do have a choice but it's not the choice it's kind of like um you have a choice but there's some choices once you start down the avenue you can't undo them so like i throw a rock in mid flight, I decide I don't want to throw it. I don't have, I've lost that choice. It's going to hit it. It hits my neighbor and kills them.

I'm going to jail. I can't be like, ah, I don't want, I can't take it back. Same thing. If you mix a penis and a vagina and the penis ejaculates you, some people think you should be able to take that back mid flight.

Right. It's i mean fundamentally isn't the constitution supposed to protect um well aren't there three things it's supposed to protect life liberty and something else uh pursuit of happiness what's interesting is so why doesn't it protect it why doesn't it protect a fertilized – why doesn't it protect a fertilized egg, which I think by definition is an embryo, which – why can't it protect that? Why didn't they just argue – which amendment is it that it's supposed to protect life? Why didn't they just argue that it's not life and so the constitution can't protect it and therefore abortion is legal because there's been uh the common law going back for um you know probably a thousand years if you killed a pregnant woman you'd be in a heap big trouble there there'd always been more so than if you killed just a non-pregnant woman

it wasn't considered it was considered the the killing of two not just one so you can be charged yeah particularly heinous crime there were more severe penalties for you know if it turned out you pushed a woman down and she fell and you know the baby died yeah you'd be you'd be in big trouble you can be charged the law had always recognized that reality what's that you can be charged for murder i don't you know i don't think you could but there were some other but much more severe crime because they didn't have murder the way we know murder and those kind of stats what if what if right now today i was drinking and driving and i hit a woman in a crosswalk who was six months pregnant two months pregnant uh most

more there's more bad and i kill both of them there's more bad shit happen to me than if i just killed the woman yeah the law has always recognized that a pregnant woman's on a different i mean it makes sense look the ancient totally makes sense it totally makes sense you know the ancient world recognized that like you and i are are pretty much dispensable men but a woman that's you know a woman can bring a baby into the world you and i just you know we can yeah we're we're interchangeable we're fungible you know we're like two different ten dollar bills it's a dollar bill it's a ten dollar bill it doesn't matter you know but but you need a woman to actually take a child to full term and bring a new life into the world. So that's a, that's a more valuable asset.

And that was always, I mean, just as a matter of human survival, people had always recognized the importance of like, Hey man, you know, in fact, the entire Jewish, I mean, the Jewish people are a matriarchal society rather than a, you know, work patriarchy is a recent, that's a recent innovation too. Well, it's had its ups and downs. It's come up and down, but. There was Roe v. Wade.

What's this new one called that reversed it? Vobbs? Dobbs. With a D? I forget it's something versus Dobbs, but that's the newest piece. So this is actually the more logical right decision to take the power out. But why can't the power – why isn't the Supreme Court protecting – what is – why

hasn't it come to the Supreme Court to protect embryos if we're supposed to have life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? And then let me also throw this in there. Could you then have a hysterectomy? Instead of killing the baby, you could say, hey, I'm just going to take out my uterus. And if there's a baby in there, fuck it. That's not my problem. No, most of the states now have criminal stat statutes that you know that's what this was all about the original roe v wade decision

it was interesting because the woman was pregnant in 1970 and then by the time she'd already had the abortion and so by the time we got to the supreme court in 73 they're dealing with something that was a fait accompli they're like but there's a doctrine they have of um problems that can recur and evade judicial review and so they said well we're going to take this up and look at it it was largely an excuse it followed a line of decisions eisenstadt v beard griswold versus connecticut there are a line of these decisions that kind of led up to this we had a real activist court in the 60s and ultimately you get roe v wade spits out at the end of it but there had always and it's funny because in rereading roe i forgot how much uh justice blackman had gone gone over um the history i mean he acknowledged that you know like

abortion has been a criminal it's been considered a criminal practice for like 100 years in the united states or prior to prior to that yeah prior to roe v wade so roe v wade challenged a texas law that criminalized a doctor providing abortion so the doctor was the one facing and that's the you know a lot of the what comes out of this and the hysteria that people kind of try to whip up over this is oh my god they're gonna start locking up women who use the morning after pill or whatever you know it's like yeah it's that's not very likely um i i did see that um i forget what it's called but um the day that uh the dobbs case happened um they had the governor of south dakota on and they had something called i forget

what it's called but it's basically like soon they had a law in place that a triggering statute. Yeah, yes. And she also said that, hey, in that. And I noticed a lot of things I was seeing on social media. They were saying that women were going to die because they weren't going to allow abortion. But she immediately said, hey, we will not stop abortion if a woman's life is in danger. woman's life is in danger. Yeah, that's always been, that's been a, I don't think there's ever been a law in the books that didn't acknowledge a, a call it a loophole, but a portion that always recognized that if the woman's life was in danger, it goes back to what I told you before, like, you know, if a, if a child threatened a woman's life, there are abortifacients exist. There are

natural abortifacients. There are plants that you canients there are plants that you can i mean going back to like you know ireland and you can mix up there are different i forget what it is but there are different uh plants that you can mix and take naturally that will likely induce an abortion so it's not this has been around you know these problems aren't new this isn't something you know people getting pregnant by mistake for since the dawn of time you know since the advent of the penis so like this is one you hear a lot about ectopic pregnancy this is the the the egg attaches inside the fallopian tube somewhere and women are saying that and if if this baby grows in here it will kill the woman yes but but the states, the four or five states that I researched right away said that, no, we're not letting any women die.

Yeah. No one would ever – an ectopic pregnancy would always be as a matter of just routine medical. Like you would absolutely – you would terminate that because it can't – it's not going going to take the child's not going to live anyway because it's not in the uterus it's not going to you know it's not it's it landed in the wrong spot and so the ectopic pregnancies aren't they shouldn't be impacted at all by any of this none of this should make any difference to an ectopic pregnancy the um i hear a lot of people on the left saying that um uh ruth bader gader Ginsburg should have stepped down so that we could have had a Democrat appoint her replacement. Is that a – do you have any thoughts on that? What are your thoughts on that?

I'll tell you. I'll tell you how my thoughts on this – It's a lifelong position, right? It's a lifelong position, right? So the Supreme Court is a life-tenured –ured, you know, you're on the court and you're there until you croak or decide you want to step down. Here's the interesting thing about it. You know, part of what I think motivated them to overturn Roe v. Wade is that for the last 50 years, every Supreme Court justice has had to go sit through these bullshit hearings where Republicans and Democrats both try and get promises from a justice about how they're going to vote on the next abortion case. And so I think the Supreme Court justices

were like part of the reasoning, they'll never admit it. But I think part of the reason that they did this was the Supreme Court justices themselves were tired of these sham hearings and all this bullshit. And now it's off the table. And so now nobody has to ask a Supreme Court justice about how they're going to rule on Roe v. Wade anymore. That's over. I think part of the reason was selfish that they were just like, we're not, I don't want to hear it anymore.

And so now we can stop. So back to your Ruth Bader Ginsburg question, we can stop the nonsense of having presidents picking Supreme Court justices over and trying to manipulate when someone retires and who's the president. And so that like all that bullshit can go away because now Roe is gone and we can just all get back to just the process working normally. You know, in many ways, Roe turned the entire judicial process. It used to be if you look back at prior, like go back 100 years to the way Supreme Court confirmations went, they look nothing like they do today. Nothing like,

it was always considered that, you know, it's an advice and consent of the Senate. And it was basically most of the times in, you know, a hundred years ago, even 80 years ago, somebody would nominate Supreme Court justice and it didn't get anything more than a, it was just a rubber stamp. The Senate used to be like, well, you know, he's the president. That's his prerogative. He gets to pick Supreme Court justices. None of the show trials, none of the Kavanaugh bullshit, none of that. I mean, it's gotten out of control. used it as a place to get things accomplished legally by getting a declaration from five of nine Supreme Court justices that they couldn't get in legislation. So it's, I mean, it's always the, it's always, they're doing exactly the opposite of what they say. So they're screaming about, we love democracy, you know, except, except when people don't vote the way they want them to, then they want the Supreme Court to tell people what it's supposed to be. Right. Because, I mean, you might think like, hey, look, if you're for, if it's as popular as you say it is,

if abortion is as big a deal to women as you say it is, then you shouldn't have any problem at all amending the Constitution, for example, or, you know, or even getting laws passed in the states. I mean, if it's as popular as you say but of course the reality is i'll tell you the other part of this and why this is abortion's been around that nobody really talks about is because it's been a fundraising issue for republicans and democrats it's a huge fundraising issue and so for decades they've been able to they're going to take away your rights and and i'm going to fight for them and i'm gonna we're only gonna confirm just and that's been a huge both team red and team blue have benefited immensely from being able to fundraise on the

fears that that come around abortion and now that's gone too now it's just it's back to the states now what are you gonna do you know but that's it's it's there have been so many incentives mal incentives to keep it in place that it's kind of surprising that they did. I was shocked to be honest. I'm not even sure it's a good idea. Shocked what? Shocked what? Shocked that Roe v. Wade was overturned. You're not sure if it's a good idea. I understand why the decision is, but I mean, I'd have to get into some,

some deep, you know, judicial philosophy about whether originalist or textualist or, and I don't want to get too far down the rabbit hole, but. You mean in regards to how the 14th amendment was applied? Yeah. Whether substantive due process. I mean, Thomas is a, Hey, we should have done this under privileges of immunities. Does it fall under the ninth amendment? I mean, it really depends on what you view the constitution is and it really goes back to do you view rights as something that exists out there in the world like that i have all the

rights i i want and when the supreme court announces it did they just discover it or did they invent it like you know you mean you mean when the constitution not the supreme court i mean the supreme the constitution invented it right i know they always like to say that this this is our god-given right but i think anyone who can think says that well there's out there's no fucking such thing you're just like the constitution makes some things that we some presuppositions and and then from there, everything else grows. Well, okay. Or some things – by presuppositions, I mean things that we're supposed to defend for the existence of this country to exist, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Let's take the big one we talked about. Are all people equal? Yeah. Are all people created equal? No. No. No, we're not all created equal not at all i do not have those i i do not have those traps that you have what kyle maynard had no arms and legs yes correct yes and then uh did better than all of us yeah right right uh any thor's daughter any thought any thor's daughter burns quicker than I do. Right.

Yeah. Right. No, all men are not created equal, but the assertion in the Declaration of Independence is that we're equal. We're all created equal as we have equal moral dignity. That's the term I use. Okay. By virtue of being human beings and being creatures of God, that we have equal moral worth. And therefore, governments shouldn't do anything to treat any of us. There should be no distinctions between us.

The problem was they were creating that in a time when slavery still existed. Right. And so kind of baked into the whole thing was like, well, fuck, how are we going to, how do we deal with that? That's why life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness of happiness you know the original draft was not life liberty in the pursuit of happiness the original draft was life liberty and property and i think that in my opinion jefferson pulled that out because he was afraid that if they put the word property into the original constitution that it would it would have solidified the notion of slavery it would have said at a time when people owned other people so if they had put life for liberty and

property in there and yet that was really what they wanted to protect was property rights it's always been at the center of western anglo-legal tradition but i think he pulled that out because in my opinion jefferson was in love with a black woman. That's Sally Hemings. Another fascinating presupposition to me or an acceptance of reality that is not in reality is ownership. And then on top of that, the idea of stealing. Like these – and then people will respond to me. Like I'll be like, hey, you don't really own anything. Oh, yeah? So how would you feel about your house not being yours?

I'm not saying that, dude. I'm just telling you it's like it's something we've agreed upon that's fucking made up. Do you want to have a view of reality or do you not? Like I don't care. I would like to live with more people. It's an incredible construct. Yeah. It's an incredibly useful one. Very. Or we don't even have to live with more people. It's an incredible construct. Yeah. It's an incredibly useful one.

Very. Or we don't even have to take it that far. It's an experiment that I'm happy I'm participating in. There's something more to it. I think there's a little more to it. Let me give you an example. Think about your kids. Did you have to have a discussion?

Did you tell them at all about property when you gave them a binky, put it in their mouths? No, we didn't use binkies. we don't believe in that shit okay so for most people right if you give a kid something and then they have it try and take it away to try and take it away from them and see what happens yes right did were they lectured are they bourgeoisie the kids get his shit in his pants he can't even speak no one he didn't read right lock i mean he didn't have any nobody inculcated him with property you give a kid something you try and take it away from and by the way they think and speaking of slavery and ownership they think they own me they think they own me my kids oh yeah they think they own me yeah for sure yeah yeah i like it they do okay so going to ownership okay yeah so i think there's more to it you know if we we were talking about existing in a state of nature if i if i lived up in the woods right

i need to and i built myself a little cabin and i went out hunting and i killed it you know killed a deer and i put the hide up. And then I'm like, Hey, I got to freeze this meat and kind of keep it for the winter. If you rolled up, like, and I was just out there, right. And I'm out hunting. I come back and you're sitting in my little lean-to and you're eating my food and you're, you know, sitting there and you're laying in my bed and I'm like, yo man, what are you doing? And you're like, don't forget I'm with your girl too yeah and you're like property is a bourgeois construct and i'm like dude yeah that meat is what it's going to

get me through this winter yes yeah i mean so it's not i don't think it's just a i don't think it's just a made-up idea that there's a very real necessity for some kind of distinction between like hey man the problem is that you know nature just doesn't give its bounty to us it doesn't just hand it over to us you have to work i mean that's the nature of the thing so i go you think it's you you're suggesting that it's i don't know if this is the right word but it's the relationship between ownership and survival is not close, but it's inseparable. Yes. Without ownership, you don't survive. Yes.

And so therefore, there's the argument. Yeah, I mean, I mean, fuck you for coming on my show and fucking with my thoughts. Sorry, man. Yeah, that I mean, I see it. I totally see it. If you didn't own that sandwich, then this motherfucker over here is just going to come punch in the face and take it and grab your car and your wife. Right. And then what? Right. Yeah, it's a it's an essential it's an essential. And so for people to survive, we have to protect some basic elements of ownership. On the other end, Dale, the the that is the source of all misery too this this sort of this attachment to

ownership right uh someone someone does take your sandwich and all of a sudden you're pissed right and you get a sandwich and you're happy yep yeah everything man everything has baked within its own its own problems you know right there's no way around it uh hey do you have do you have an opinion on um are you a pro-choice or a pro-life person do you know what you are yeah i don't know that i have a i'll say this i don't trust my government to everything government touches it fucks up so i don't want them regulating abortion any more than i want them like i don't call the government when i need my toilet fixed right i mean is the same thing with like that with the death penalty we know there's some people that need to be fucking killed but we can't put the power in the in the hands of the government because they kill the wrong people

i mean they they do yes yes and so you you raped and you went into an elementary school and or you went into a daycare and shot all the nurses and babies and now you have to be killed but then we find out that it was actually after you're dead the whole thing was a setup right right yeah it's a fucking man civilization is complicated it sucks that there's people who that are who are i like people that are cocksure but it sucks that are people that are people who are so cocksure about these things yeah they're the problem yeah it would go a long way it's a really it is a really sensitive subject the abortion thing yeah it is and it's it's so much more complicated than people like i i don't you know justice blackman wrote the original opinion.

I think he had been a counsel to the American Medical Association. And so when you read Roe v. Wade, it's got this whole trimester thing. And it's because he like he was around doctors. And so it's basically legislation written by the Supreme Court. I mean, anybody who's read it, you know, that that was always the pictures in there, too. Do they show like, no, no. But I think it reads like that you know it really does at the original like the baby at this point has a heartbeat and all five fingers and therefore yep yeah like it's trying to rationalize when it's alive and when it's not yeah yeah they were using the traditional like quickening and the common law and they're like but that doesn't really jive with what we

know and you know it's all about this new medical science, you know, is going to teach us. And it's like, yeah, you're, that's a duck on the real issue. But I'll say this, most people I think would tell you that there is at least some, a certain reality, like for example, you know, suppose you're a woman and you get pregnant and you don't know it. And there's a certain period of time you probably won't, right? Six weeks, eight weeks. I think most of us have had scares or had some had some kind of thing and you wouldn't want to hold a woman liable, for example. It wouldn't make sense, for example, say your wife had gotten pregnant, she didn't know it. She's seven weeks pregnant

and she's out drinking or smoking weed or whatever, doing something that, doing cocaine or whatever that maybe would be ill-advised if you were pregnant, but she didn't know. Right. And the baby died as a result. You'd feel terrible about it, but you'd be like, ah, you know, your moral responsibility there feels kind of like, I don't know, you didn't know, you know? Right. You didn't know. Right. How would you, you know, so I think there's a certain sense in which you go, look, at the point at which, you know, you find out that you're pregnant, that oops, this has happened. And, you know, we didn't mean for it to happen. And now it happened. Your obligation, I think, is if you're going to do that, now's the time, not at week 38. And I think most people have a genuine sense of that, that like, hey, it, it didn't sneak up on you. You know, you found out

at some point we get, we tend to week 12. And if you're like, I can't do this right now for whatever reasons you want, then do it now. Not now. Catholics will kill me over saying something like that. And again, I'll say that my view of it is, um, my view it is I don't approve of it. I don't approve of abortion as a method of contraception. But on the other hand, I'm not naive about situations that people find themselves in their lives. How about this? How about this? So the left says some really, really dumb shit.

They say stuff like, well, what if you get raped or what if it's incest? And then you look at the numbers and it's insignificant. but listen to this dumb shit the right says how dumb is the right i just looked this up in the bmj real quick nine out of ten abort on the same end the rights like well you can't be killing babies at 30 weeks and i've said that shit too right oh what about these motherfuckers are trying to kill babies seven days after they're out of the womb because there is legislation like that in san francisco i don't know if you've seen, or out of California. It's fucking scary. But listen, the BMJ right here, just a quick Google search,

we'll assume it's true, says this. Nine out of 10 abortions are done before 12 weeks. Oh, in many high-income countries. So at that point, it makes me feel like hey dude just let people do what they want i'm not for i'm not for abortion i'm not gonna do it i'm not gonna have one yeah i'm gonna or if my wife got pregnant i would ask her not to do it but but but but but just let people do what they want to do. But then so where where does the argument come? Well, so then you're just going to let people kill babies.

But then I turn to this and it's like, but 10 out of nine out of 10 or before 12 weeks. Right. Right. I go back to what I said. This issue, the people beating the drums about this issue have been this has been an issue that they they used to fundraise against and they make millions and millions of dollars to for their re-election campaigns and get everybody whipped up that's that it's the same thing with guns it's the same thing it you know it's one of those hey look i don't like guns or whatever you don't like okay fine don't don't get one you know like yeah yeah yeah right over for you you know, it's one of those, Hey, look, I don't like guns or whatever. You don't like, okay, fine. Don't, don't get one. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. It's over for you. You know, you don't like abortions. Don't get one. Right.

You know, we've become, we've become obsessed with the notion that we all have to control what somebody else is doing. And that's, that's the real bill of goods is like, I always ask people, are you, are, do you think that you know the difference between right and wrong in most situations that come up in your life like if something presents itself in your day-to-day life are you like oh fuck i don't know i'll just flip a coin and hope and then pick one choice together or do you think you you're uh enough of a morally developed person that you know the difference between right and wrong and everybody always

tell you no i know the difference between right and wrong be like okay then like you're not confused about any of this right no okay well then why the fuck you worried about what anybody else is doing right right right like everybody knows everything everybody's gonna figure it out all right great then then you know why don't you just worry about you just take care of you you got enough problems right there i trust me it's a hard enough job just controlling your own urges taking care of your own shit paying your rent and we live in this world that's been created for us this stereo optic on which is just all about convincing us that we need to take an interest in other people's shit in business and tell them how they should live their lives and the other part that I hate about it is that there's no room for forgiveness either. No, I can, I can have this notion, like I can go

and particularly on the left that they've got a religion that has no forgiveness in it. And so that the secular humanism is, is just about demonizing the other. And there's no chance for redemption. You know, like suppose i disagree with abortion okay i don't think you should do it and suppose one of my daughters had one you know she got in a bad circumstance and maybe she and she didn't want to confide in her old man because she didn't know how i felt about it and so she had an abortion and then i found out you know somehow it slipped out or whatever like it would hurt me more that she didn't think she could share that with me and didn't think she could share that with me

and didn't think that i would be there for her regardless of my own stance on it you know what i mean yes yes that i i would support you i told my daughters there's no crime you could commit that i wouldn't that you're still my daughter um this dude popped for steroids and he came and he came on the show and i was telling him how bad I felt for him. And I was telling him that I bet you your parents feel really bad because because I feel bad when my kids do something and they didn't come to me first. Like I let them down. And and so many people in the comments were like, how could you feel bad for him? And it's like it's it's it's so trippy to me because I want to be like – I want to say something so crazy to those people. Like how could you not feel bad?

I feel bad for anyone. I feel bad for a drunk driver who kills someone. Yeah, right. Don't get me wrong. I feel bad for the person who got killed too and their family. I feel bad for – maybe feel bad is not the right word, but – Empathy. Empathy.

Yeah. We live in a society that has tried to flens. I want to turn the clock back for those people. Yeah. And I want to show up at the party and be like, and people are like, well, they made that fucking decision. Dude, I can fucking go into anyone's day and fucking show you a thousand times you are an autopilot. And then later on, say you made that decision. Right.

And if you were that, that's another thing people don't forget. If you were raised like Hitler, if you were Hitler, you would have done the same thing he did. Of course. Like you have to fucking remember that. Yeah. It's an empathy thing. We've really, our society and social media is part of it is it's like it's so much better to dunk on people than to say, you know, like, geez, man, there, but for the grace of God, go I, you know, and, and just be, and just be cool, you know, just be cool and,

and say, even if I disagree with what you did, you know, even if I don't like it, even if it's something I disagree with morally, there's gotta be, there's gotta be something at the other end of that, which, you know, in most Western theology and Christian theology was forgiveness. And by the way, in my own belief, that's as close as we get to the divine. As close as we get to the divine is forgiveness. It's as close as we get. In our best moments, in our best moments is when we completely, and I mean, not with, I'm going to hold this against you years later. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. The forgiveness you have for your kid, when your kid does something fucked up and you see that kid wailing and killing himself over it and you just want to cry and you put your arms around him and you just being love at that kid. And you're like, please, this is not the end. It's not, don't do anything stupid.

You just have nothing but love for that kid. That's as close as we get to the divine. As close as we are to touching it. Even when you're walking through a crosswalk and someone goes through it and they say, sorry, and you're like, no problem. Like they know they fucked up. Even at that moment, you feel the sparkles of that divinity. Yes. That lightness, that freedom.

Yes. And it's sort of like a communion with humanity. You have this new belief. Like they said sorry, you said sorry. It wasn't like, fuck you. Nope. Nope. You got the best instead of the worst.

Hey, I try and do what I'm driving, right? Guy cuts me off. And I'm like, ooh, I'm mad. But I back up, right? And then you can see the guy in the mirror look up at you and you meet his eyes and he cringes right and he gives you a couple fingers and you're like no problem yeah i get it i had my ass too no harm no foul everybody's good you know i don't need to kill you yeah no it's just all good we're just driving yeah we're just

trying to get where we're going and the more you do that you can actually you can reprogram yourself of course yeah so that like nothing you're yeah it's just it's all good yeah hey that shit spreads like a disease a healthy disease yeah yeah we need more of it the other shit spreads like a disease too and that's the problem we we have to counter it it's so easy to just be like fuck that motherfucker you know yeah um dale thanks for coming back on yeah thanks man took a lot of time sorry about the tech fuck i can't believe we pulled it off yeah i was connected to my iphone this whole time i used my iphone as a hotspot oh and and last time you didn't no oh crazy weird send me your bill for your data usage i got unlimited bro given how i talk all right um i will be in touch um i think we have we have

tons more to talk about yeah of course and maybe hey i'll talk to you after uh when you get back from michigan i'll let you know how that goes oh thank you yes yes i'm supposed to be there i you know he asked me to come i'm like all right great and i go right from there i'm gonna go back to courtland with him he oh that's awesome dale he's actually coming here i think next week to rehearse he's gonna be doing the talk like for like rehearsing here so i'll actually get to see him oh i'll probably it wouldn't surprise me if he hits me up to come I'll actually get to see him. Oh, I'll probably, it wouldn't surprise me if he hits me up to come out for that. I got to see him.

I'm out of the going on vacation here shortly, but for a week, where are you going? Uh, Gulf coast. Oh, Texas, Florida. Well,

uh, Alice, Southern Alabama, right along like the redneck Riviera. Is that really what it's called? Redneck? Yeah. The redneck Riviera, Gulf of what it's called redneck yeah the redneck riviera gulf of mexico

but down alabama awesome all right dude thank you always great hanging with you yep dale you were awesome jeffrey birchill i can't believe we pulled it off sebon twss what's that twist twist twist i can't believe we pulled it off i can't believe that it uh i can't believe we pulled it off yeah i need a fried dick uh yeah i don't think i said that okay i said it uh you're the man dale keep coming on listening to dale makes me feel smarter i know me too thanks for hanging with those rascals you know what i did one time i saw something about the wrenches i just went over to youtube and anyone i recognized i just um made him a wrench the thing is is i don't really i i don't i don't know actually for a fact but i don't think the wrenches actually kick anyone off but they keep people in check from just doing stupid shit like

you can say stupid shit like you can tell me you can write in here Sevan eats fried dick but I think I already explained it you can't just come in here and just say I'm ugly you have to like make a joke Sevan your nose is so big that when you sneeze they feel it in two states over like it just has to be has to be some I think there was a guy in here Yolo

who was just like just too much and I think I haven't seen him in forever. So I'm assuming he got booted. And like, yeah, it was just like too much. It's like, have you ever had someone over to your house and they just like you're trying to watch the fights or you're trying to watch TV or something? They're just too high maintenance. They just won't stop talking. They're not comfortable in their own skin.

So you just don't invite them over again. It's like, yeah, this is this is our living room. If you do too much of something, you got to go. You got to go. If you don't like murder, don't murder someone. I see what you're doing there. I see. I see.

I see you. Someone called me last night who lost an Instagram account and said that they think that I might be able to get mine back. But no, no, nobody like the last 10 people that I've, uh, reached out to, uh, to come on my podcast, just randos or Instagram. None of them have responded to me when before I used to get responses all the time. Oh, what the fuck is this? This says it's tomorrow at 11 AM. I cannot cannot do that at 11 a.m tomorrow i thought it was supposed to be 5 30 at night i tomorrow we have a programming show we'll be taking a look at the programming for the 2022 crossfit games with jr howell and the thumb taylor self uh that's weird that it says 11 a.m. on my calendar.

I wonder what's it say on YouTube. It can't possibly say that on YouTube, right? Let me see. Oh, we have Matt Torres coming on. That's cool. I think we have so many. I think we've been scheduling so many games, athletes. Torres coming on? That's cool.

I think we have so many. I think we've been scheduling so many games, athletes. I don't see it. Videos? Uploads? Playlist? Home? Let me see if they go to the home. Must watch? Upcoming live streams.

Yeah, it says 11 a.m. That can't be right. I cannot do that tomorrow at 11 a.m. I think that's going to switch to it says 11 a.m. That can't be right. I cannot do that tomorrow. I think that's going to switch to 530 p.m. I will check right now when we get off and have that updated. That should say 530 p.m. with J.R. Howell and Taylor Self tomorrow. And it's the 2022 CrossFit Games events. It's going to be the first look at those events.

So I'm pretty pumped, especially since we don't know what the events are. But but we have a crystal ball. All right, guys. Thanks, everyone, for tuning in. I will talk to you soon. Yeah, Bruce, this is our house. Bye bye.