The Sevan Podcast - #624 - Jamie Jenkins

Episode Date: October 10, 2022

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early for you isn't it it's a afternoon year in the uk so it's nice nice sunny sunny warm afternoon it could come really sun it's sunny it is for a change yeah are you exaggerating i i went to school for uh uh six months in uh london it was time of my life one of one of the best one of the best periods of my life amazing Amazing. Why isn't my headset working? I was to frame because I can make myself bigger if you want me to. I've got a green screen. I think you look great. I'm just having trouble hearing you, but I know it's on my end.

There we go. Caleb, nice to see you, buddy. I'm sending you away. Bye. Just like that. We're alone. Can you hear me, Jamie? Yeah, you're all good, mate.

All good. Oh, good. Jamie, are there any good numbers you know? Good numbers? I think... Like, is the number two a good number or the number 17? No. By good numbers, I mean...

The good news is that a lot of stuff we're talking about today in the world people have actually control of themselves well we always have control of ourselves um and i kind of get off on the sadistic nature of some of the crazy shit that's happening but i was thinking this morning i was shouting i wonder i love what you do i don't know how old you are but when i was a kid they had the guinness book of worlds record and it was small and the writing was really little and they had every record in there yeah and it was crazy thick the binding could barely hold the book together it was a paperback now it's like this giant hardbound

book and it's got pictures and it's just been completely dumbed down. It's like, it's a picture and it has like 70 records in it. Right. Yeah. Um, but I loved the numbers. I absolutely loved the numbers. Um, and, and by that, I mean, do you know any, are there any stats that you see and you're like, oh, this is a fun one to watch. This one always keeps me optimistic.

Yes. I don't know. Let's say you were a Christian, like, wow are up that's really great or you know like do you see any stats where you're like man this is fantastic well i suppose some of the good stats that are out there at the moment is that even when you see these kind of up-clicking covid cases that hardly anybody's going into hospital anymore so that's a good good stat there um uh what other things i think the facts we got highlighted in the like it's a climate change is a good example you know quite good hard facts that it's the ritual causing most of the kind of the climate catastrophe when you

look at the amount of carbon they are creating if there is a climate catastrophe for people wanted to go down that kind of road so so i think there's loads and loads of facts up there on a daily basis. We had the latest baby names in the UK. Okay. Most popular baby names in the UK this week as well. I think Noah is at the top of the list now in the UK. So, yeah, there's always some fun facts comes out every single week, every single day, I think.

And where do you – is there a place you hang out that's like the watering hole for this information well we we're inundated with data so in the uk the government's always putting out loads of data on a daily basis so kind of the main hangout is where i used to work is kind of for some geeks out there we call the office for national statistics is kind of where i used to hang out with with all my kind of chums doing all the numbers so i kind of come out of that one of the good things not working there is that you can kind of go on a lot of different platforms and talk about the numbers and give an opinion so i used to do a lot of media interviews whilst working

in the kind of the government statistics and you can go on you can talk about the numbers but if a presenter then says to you so what do you think the government should do you can't really answer that because you're you're kind of impartial when you're presenting the figures so there's tons and tons of stuff on there and what i try and do through my kind of twitter profile is put out stuff just to kind of on the hot topics of the day so we've had covid obviously the last couple of years we've got the cost of living crisis across the world the the impact of gas prices, oil prices, all these different things that ultimately people I find generally struggle with numbers. They haven't got a clear way to look for them. So it's trying to bring the numbers that are relevant to people's lives and then putting them out there on a kind of on a daily basis so people can make sense of what's going on in the world.

You're right. A lot of people don't understand numbers or I think maybe I don't know what happens to their brain when they hear numbers. I mean, there's things that I hear where I just kind of turn off. If someone starts using consecutive words that I don't understand, I'll see myself kind of like fade back into a fog. But without that ability to contextualize things, there's no ability to do risk assessment or any assessment. No, indeed. You know, you're spot on there. I'll give you an example of kind of this week now.

So the UK media are talking a lot about a new wave of COVID in the country. So the headline figures is there's 1.3 million people across the UK. This is from those facts and figures that have been published this week, who are estimated to have COVID and how they work that out. Because people naturally are all my Twitter feed saying there's not that many people being tested. How do we know that number? So most statistics, where they come from is you do random surveys. So you've got a random selection of households and you will go and test people in those households and then you might find that i don't know say three percent of

all of them have it you then aggregate that what would that mean if we tested every single household and you get 1.3 million and it's going up but what you've got to contextualize it it comes back to me with this so what do we care kind of thing so a couple of years ago covid cases would be going up across the country and there would be huge pressures on health systems because there's very few people who'd had the virus before loads of very few antibodies in the population and people were worried a little bit more about what's going on just in case it overwhelmed health systems but the story that's being kind of reported is yeah cases are going up journalists are programmed to say yeah cases are going up because that's what the figures are showing but i was doing a couple of

television interviews this week on them and just to say that okay yeah cases are going up we're in that period of the year where it's coming into the kind of in the northern hemisphere we're in the respiratory virus season cases are going up but you look at the number of patients in hospital who are severely ill with covid these days it's barely moved for the last year. So stop focusing on this number, focus on the number that really matters. And I think that's sometimes what gets lost when journalists are putting numbers out. And it can sometimes be used to kind of puff some fear into the public, I suppose. You know what happens with newspapers and the media in general?

Fear sells. But you've got to contextualize it. It comes back to me as the so what. If you tell somebody a number, why do I care? That's the important thing. Jamie Jenkins, former head of health analysis and labor markets analysis at the Office of National Statistics. Tell me about this um office of national statistics how long has that been around and how did you end up there yeah so it's kind of um it's a government

body but it's at arm's length from government so some people think that oh they get told what they have to publish so it's independent so the kind of the government whilst it's funded through taxpayers it's independent of government kind of interference thing so it's funded through taxpayers it's independent of government kind of interference thing so been going for a while they it's probably since the 90s where they amalgamated different organizations that existed in the uk to create when you've got all countries across the world kind of have their national statistics office and i kind of went to the university studying always good with maths and school. Went to university, did maths, kind of fell into the Office for National Statistics because it's just down the row from where I live.

So I spent a lot of time in my career working there, kind of come out in more recent years, having done lots of different things because you don't want to be doing the same stuff all of the time. But basically, they're there and responsible for doing lots of surveys across the country because we need to know what's going on in the economy. So all that kind of comes from country because we need to know what's going on in the economy. So all that kind of comes from there. You need to know what's going on with kind of health and lifestyles as well. And that's information comes from there, because ultimately, if you want to have an effective policy for government or data to hold government to account, you need somebody to create that. And that's kind of what the Office for National Statistics does. You need somebody to create that. And that's kind of what the Office for National Statistics does.

A statistic might come out of, let's say, Australia, four people died of covid or that a thousand people have the virus. And then the presuppositions are that dying is bad and that getting a virus is bad okay um and then and then to contextualize that you let's say they say over the year a thousand people died in australia from uh from covid and we know all the problems with that with saying that it was from covid um i'll just give a quick example i think it was switzerland i had a scientist on from switzerland and he said the average age of COVID death in their country was 82, but the average age of death was 80. And at the point you see that you can't say that people are dying from COVID. You have to say that they died with COVID. And it's that not understanding of numbers, but then you see these stats, like you see the effort that's made to prevent the spread of COVID

or save people from COVID. And then I tell you that 1800 people died falling downstairs in you see these stats, like you see the effort that's made to prevent the spread of COVID or save people from COVID. And then I tell you that 1800 people died falling downstairs in Australia. I made that up. I don't know what the number is there, but it's 12,000 in the U S every year, 12,000 people die falling down the stairs. And that's kind of also what I mean by, um, contextualizing numbers, or if I tell you a million people have COVID, you have to be like, okay, where else are there a million people? Okay, we have a million people who work for our postal service. We have 1.5 million prisoners in the United States.

This kind of understanding of what that really means and what are the actual chances of something like that happening. So school shootings is another example i have friends who are pulling their kids out of their schools for school shootings because they're afraid of school shootings but like when you when you look at the figures and start looking at the chances of it happening to your kids um at your kid's school you're crazy to send your kid to school in California anyway. It's not possible. Your kid's going to get stung by a swarm of bees before he gets involved in a school shooting.

And there's this just giant – and I'm sure you see this too. The cure – and I know you said – we talked about it. You already said something about expressing opinion. But when you see this stuff, do you ever scratch your head and be like hey the cure is actually causing the solution is actually causing more problem than the harm because no one's contextualizing these numbers yeah no i think you're spot on there because you know you you take what the stuff that you just talked about that when you see numbers all over the news and let's go back say a couple years ago to the start of the pandemic and and then the same year covid cases are going up this is the number of people who are dying um you've got to find a con some kind of context you've got so the very start of the pandemic we

were seeing more deaths than you would expect so the virus was kind of killing people but then i think that a lot of the media across the world um started getting stuck into this rut about telling people every single day how many people were dying from COVID. Even in the UK, we would have this when deaths had fallen to relatively low levels, because we were seeing some big numbers in terms of what you would expect at the start in March 2020. And then by the summer of 2020, the numbers were relatively low, but every single day, they were all over the news. The government themselves were paying for adverts telling people all about the virus and is really worried.

What they weren't doing is actually saying, well, if you're, I don't know, let's just say a 20 year old male and you happen to catch this virus. Well, for you, for the vast majority of you, it's going to be a relatively mild illness. And we got to a point, didn't we, through most of the pandemic where a lot of people didn't know they had it it's just there was an obsession in countries i don't know how much it was in the u.s but in the uk there was an obsession i live in wales okay obsession wasn't it 80 asymptomatic isn't that the like the number that the center for disease control in the united states gives out 80 yeah i'm not sure exactly what we had in the uk because the um they brought in these vaccine mandates which i think they started bringing in other countries as well where

you have to show proof of a vaccination to go into certain venues or if you didn't do that you have to have a negative test and then mark drakeford who's the first minister in wales so we've got the prime minister which is now at his trust we've got kind of different parts of the uk governed slightly differently but so mark drakeford who kind of runs where I live I suppose he was then saying um flow before you go which is basically have a lateral flow test before you leave the house I just started to normalize this absolute nonsense that people would say well there's free tests well they're not free they come from somewhere that somebody has to pay for them you know they're manufactured not in there and we were just getting a huge amount of people testing.

And then you would find more and more kind of cases because more and more people were testing. But when you kind of contextualize where we are now, like the number I talked about now, we've got 1.3 million estimated to have COVID in the latest week. And again, that comes from a random survey of households. But the vast majority of those who test positive are thinking, I don't even know I've got it so if you've got a virus now where for most people they don't even know they're ill unless they test for it we've kind of gone full circle into some kind of really weird situation in terms of that because obviously if you're worried about an illness is if the illness is going to make you really ill that you're going to be severely ill in hospital then yeah of course that will be when you find out but it seemed to be a badge for some people

and posting on social media yeah i've got covid as an example but i feel fine it was just yeah some absolute nonsense stuff's gone on the last couple years and when you talked about kind of the cure and the disease itself well countries went into obscene lockdown measures i think the very start of it we didn't know what we were kind of coming into but it was quick to see that this was a virus this was severely higher risk for the elderly people as you talked about the swiss numbers they're similar in the uk the latest figures average age of death the latest month 85 but what serious 85 85 for the for the latest data so over over the time, 82.

And then you still have people in the UK, and I imagine in other countries as well, calling for some more restrictions to come in because cases are going up. And just think that, you know, have some context in all of this. The cost of living crisis is definitely linked

to the measures to curb the virus the countries took because supply chains were decimated because they were all locked down. when we reopen the country that's a big part of the reason we got inflation governments are in mass debt because of the cost of covid and they've basically racking up debt now because of the energy crisis in the world so you know there's going to be a lot of harm for the you know for the foreseeable future because of measures that were put in place where yeah okay the start may be warranted but they went on far too long in some

countries and even in the u.s now jokovic couldn't come in to play tennis because oh crazy he hasn't had to haven't been vaccinated where he won wimbledon in the uk you know these different rules in different countries what he says to me is they say following the science well if the science was settled on every country would have the same rules but they don't because it's more political for me rather than the science i i don't think that those people know the true meaning i i know that they don't know the true meaning of science i think the cornerstone of science uh is its predictive value. It doesn't matter how you get it.

We have this comet that circles the planet. It's called Halley's Comet, circles our galaxy. And I can tell you when it's going to be here next to the minute, and I can tell you where it came from. That's science. That's predictive value. There is no predictive value with climate change. There's not a single model that can look backwards that's accurate. The models that

they're using to predict the doom of the planet you can't look back six months and then tell you the weather they're all wrong there's no they that it's fucking madness i'm not suggesting that there isn't or isn't climate change i'm just saying that this global warming thing the model that they're using doesn't follow within any of the parameter parameters of the foundation and the same thing was true with the covid yeah well one of the things with covid so in australia one quick thing sorry jimmy in australia new zealand are perfect examples yeah they went they are it almost looks like they were no sorry it looks like they were trying to hurt their people if you if you follow the science yeah well if you take modeling then so the thing with the science and the modeling for each of the different countries

was that they come up with some model it says something catastrophic's going to happen probably you know a bit like what they do with climate change i suppose they say so there was if you don't lock down or if you don't do this these number of people will die die. And then a government minister then thinking, well, we better do something, because we don't want to be seen with blood on our hands. And so that's what generally happened. And then what you get then is if you put an intervention in. So if they say, if you don't do this, this will happen. Well, if you then do the thing that they want you to do,

you can't mark the homework, can you? Because they will say, well, we don't know. You can't prove that it wouldn't have been that case because obviously we did something but last year in the uk which is an interesting thing so boris johnson when he was still prime minister we again had all the kind of we had this group called sage which is the scientific advisory group in the uk coming up with modeling and i every kind of get modeling didn't they and and what they were saying is that well boris you were going into Christmas time last year they said if you don't bring in further measures now in this country we're in the heart of winter these number of people are going

to be dying every single day by February and he stood up and said you know we've already been through several of these lockdowns and he said no we're going to continue with the plan that we've currently got in place so we hadn't got rid of everything at this point, but there was no plan to stop you mixing with your family over Christmas. He basically said, no, we're not going to do it. So that was the first time, particularly in the UK context. We could then, OK, let's now track what actually happens versus what these modelers said would happen. And I wrote a blog on it on my website. The number deaths that they said would happen uh compared to you know what actually happened the reality was 93 percent lower than what they were they kind of central estimate was you know completely way out the modeling was so you could actually look at that and then you go back and think well the same modelers and the same modeling

was used to then bring all of these lockdowns that kind of come in. And I say the first one, we didn't know what we were encountering. So maybe there, but we remember countries started bringing things in, taking them back out again, bringing them in, taking them out again. So it was the first time where you could look at it and think, this model is absolute nonsense. So then you start questioning, as you just rightly said, the modelling on other things, so the climate and things.

So can you trust the modeling? That's the challenge. And I don't really think we can when you look in terms of the track record with COVID. How do you stay so calm? Well, that's part of what I'm trying to be good at doing. But I do get irate sometimes, you know, talking of climate change this week. I don't know. You've got some parts of the US where you're all moving and banning electric vehicles, aren't you? Oh, my goodness. You take europe no not banning sorry sorry banning

gas vehicles yeah sorry yeah banning gas vehicles so you move they should ban electric vehicles well yeah but you take this you've got a situation now i just i'll take europe as a good example now so so the uk is going to ban the sale of new combustible engines and by 2030 and at the moment across the i think it's not so bad in the us because you've got more energy security over there than some of the countries in europe but europe and not uk is not as bad as say germany and italy and france so to speak but there's talk of having the light switched off this winter because they haven't got enough gas coming in to generate the electricity. So in 2022, it's in 2023. It takes a while to boost your own energy security.

Where the hell's all the electricity coming from for all these electric vehicles that we are going to be moved to? Who's going to be buying them because they cost an absolute fortune? You know, it is. It's absolute madness. I don't think anybody in the world thinks it's a stupid idea to move to cleaner forms of energy. But the pace they're trying to do is all in this pursuit of net zero. It's a direct cause of the cost of living crisis.

And it's the poorest people who get impacted most, because what you've got is more and more countries are trying to buy gas because it's cleaner than burning, say, coal. More countries trying to buy on the world global stage pushes the price up. Energy prices goes up. Rich people can afford it. Poor people can't.

That, you know, the cost of net zero is zero money, you know, zero money in the bank accounts of many poorer people across the world. Two things I'd like to editorialize on that. One, that is not the rich people's fault. And that doesn't mean that we take money from the rich people. It is no fault of their own that they got rich. Well, it is their fault. They earned it. Taking money from them to buy the poor people a few extra nights of gas for their cars will not be the solution. They're going to end up with the money again anyway. It's crazy. anyway it's it's it's crazy the second thing is i don't think that there's any proof at the current state i love the advancement of technology electrical cars are wonderful but i don't think there's any proof that they help the environment i think that there may even be proof mounting that it's contrary why doesn't i want to talk about that that energy thing in the uk um why doesn't the united united kingdom just build two massive nuclear reactors off your Atlantic seaboard and power the whole country? It's crazy clean, and you'll be free from – so how does it work now?

Before you answer that question, how does it work now? When I was reading your blog post yesterday, I'm like, oh, shit, this country has to get all its energy from other places. I couldn't figure out how that was – how does that work? What's the model there? Yeah, so back in the 1980s, so we't you're talking about 30 odd years ago four years ago most of the electric would be produced domestically in the uk which obviously energy is it's really important of your own security if you can't have any energy then we know how you're going to survive so but the vast majority of that came from burning coal

and then successively over the last 40 years we've reduced the number of coal-fired power stations. It's practically non-existent coal in the UK now. Other countries are moving that way. our electricity and then a lot of that gas came from the the north sea but what we've seen over the last 10 or 15 years is rather than come from the uk the north sea we're importing more foreign gas because there's no bonkers governments have said well yeah net zero it's all got to be renewables we don't even want any fossil fuels we don't want any gas at all so we haven't moved fast enough to get enough renewables so where we're at is that we're relying on foreign countries now to import gas because we've gone far too fast in terms of the acceleration away from coal germany's another example you know a lot of europe's in exact you know in the same situation they've relied on kind of cheap gas from russia and obviously the ukraine war and

blocking all the pipes and all pooped in salt salt in the pipes flowing that's caused a bit of an issue across Europe say the US is is filling the middle of that void by exporting more gas into Europe at the moment but to get to a situation where you know you spend billions upon billions of pounds or dollars on your you know your military for your defense but you get to a system where you rely on foreign countries your own energy it's absolutely a matter so your point about nuclear we've got a political system where we've got several parties kind of you don't kind of have like you've got in the u.s which mainly republicans and the democrats several parties and when uh we had an election in the 2000s late 2000s. We had a coalition between two different parties and one of them was dead against nuclear.

They just think, oh, we don't want more nuclear. And there's a clipping going around on social media from the kind of one of the people in that party who formed the coalition with the government saying, yeah, we don't want to be invested in nuclear. We won't get any energy from nuclear until 2022. So why would we want to bother with that? We need more wind.

We can get it up quicker. Now, if we built them 10 or 15 years ago, 2022 now, perfect. So short-termism is the problem. Wouldn't it be nice to turn that thing on tomorrow morning? No, exactly. Short-termism is the problem. And renewables does have a play in some of this.

Norway, I was looking at it myself, actually, because Norway exports loads of coal, loads of gas so i thought okay norway obviously must be very energy secure i got tons and tons of gas up in the north sea there in norway and then a night about 99 percent of all norway's electricity interestingly is renewable and it's been like that for ages thought where's all this happening they've just got tons and tons of water so what they do is they've got tons and tons of reservoirs they send it down hydropower powers the country and even when they don't need the electric they'll send the water down and then if they've got too much electric for whatever reason they can send some water back up and reuse it and that's how we used to generate power like 200 years ago so so the uk getting to where it is now absolute nonsense and

i think the number one thing this government needs to sort out for the generations to come is energy security getting things sorted like that wow dude look at this jamie 90 i think uh caleb scroll at the top 98 of their energy comes from hydro. Wow. Yeah, it's amazing. And obviously lots of countries have got different kind of landscape, and they've got tons and tons of places in Norway where they can store their water. But this isn't a bad way of doing it, really, because people criticize wind, because if the wind's low below, you don't get any electric. People criticize the solar because it doesn't generate any electricity at night. Nobody talks so much about the use of water.

It's always raining. We get droughts. But yeah, Norway just fascinated me when you look at that. There is an option to do clean energy. But I think lots of countries going down the solar, the wind route at a very fast pace, removing themselves away from coal. We've got to rebalance and and ultimately we don't want to be if you take one of the best things about the industrial revolution

is poorer people obviously came up a bit because everybody started getting access to things you know and energy we don't be going back to those days where you know only certain people can do certain things and and yeah so yeah norway Norway, good example there. But for me, we can't be relying on foreign countries for your own energy. Yeah, it's crazy. On a really micro scale, when I have 100 fruit trees on my property, and when I was employed, I never picked my fruit. I would watch it hit the ground and just like a king still send myself or my wife to the store and still purchase fruit. And I lost my job, and now I pick all my – I harvest all my own stuff. Or my friends. I've noticed that in the last two years, so many of my friends have bought chickens.

It's like I don't live in – I mean I kind of live in the country, but I just can't, I didn't know anyone who owned chickens two years ago. And now I know 30 people who own chickens and people are starting to feel like, Hey, I need to take, I need to be, make sure that I'm producing food for my family closer to me. Not just for health reasons, but for some security. And then on the big scale, the countries need to do that too. Without that you're, I mean, I think that mean i think there's a some crass saying you have you're hanging your dick in the wind i mean it's not a uh i also saw that three million people will not have enough money to pay for the gas that so gas the gas actually flows to basically everyone's house in the uk and that's how they're heated yeah Yeah, so the vast majority of the UK comes via kind of gas.

Some parts are kind of off the grid where they'll use oil. And what we've got is that... Is it liquid gas or air? Gas gas. Yeah, so it all comes into the UK generally via liquefied natural gas that comes in on ships,

mainly from kind of the Middle East. That's wherequefied natural gas that comes in on ships mainly from kind of the middle east that's where a lot of our gas comes from we got pipes from norway bringing it down and but it's kind of liquefied natural gas so it's kind of the kind of the airy type gas because it comes in liquefied natural gas because i think in the u.s you talk about gas in terms of what you put in your car don't you that kind of stuff so so this is kind of what you call natural gas not the the kind of gas which we would call kind of petrol it comes from oil okay that kind of stuff so it's natural gas and yeah most households across the uk all comes in through there but the bonkers thing is as well is that most 40 percent of our electricity comes from gas as well so we basically burn gas to generate electricity in the electricity power station.

So when the price of gas has gone up significantly, because there's nothing coming out of Russia going into Europe now, that means that your gas to heat your homes go up, but the electricity price goes up as well, because 40% of all electricity comes from gas. And we've got a really bizarre, I think it's the same in Europe, how you price electricity and gas. So 40% comes from gas. You've got some from nuclear.

You've got about 40% from renewables. And the cost to create electricity across the UK and Europe hasn't changed for renewables. Because obviously the windmills are still there, the solar. But they're getting huge profits now because the way they price it is what's the cost of the last bit to create the energy for the grid so if gas is needed to create the last bit to power the country everything else even if the price doesn't change they benefit from all the increased prices so so where you go there there's three million households we've seen seen prices now double, more than double actually this winter compared to last winter, people's energy. So think from a US context. I don't know exactly what you're paying kind of relative to the UK, but imagine what your bills were last And they would be more than tripled because what the UK have done, Germany have done,

other countries in Europe is, basically, the government have said, we'll come in and pay a third of your energy bills because you can't afford them. Which means that you're going to pay them later. We're going to borrow money in your name. Exactly. So what I've said is that

it's easy for a politician to go on television and say, we'll cap your bill. You won't need to pay it. It's the it's the marketing isn't it ultimately you are paying it because they're just borrowing it on your behalf so you'll have to pay for it down the road in time so but that's where we've got to the and politicians keep saying I was pouting this causing all of this because of the Ukraine war and stuff and it's not that is a factor in this but the lockdowns have caused a lot of this as well because you know the cost of lockdown and has meant that we've got kind of more

and more the energy was being kind of reduced in terms of what they were producing then we opened up so demand surged again and we haven't got the supply and what we were just discussing uh the climate change goals so we've got cop 27 i, coming up in Egypt, where all the world leaders will come together on the next set of agreements. We had one in UK and Glasgow last year. And countries like China, India, Pakistan, you know, very big countries, large populations say they're going to try and become more kind of cleaner. say they're going to try and become more kind of cleaner so they're trying to buy up gas as well so we're in a situation where poor people literally have no money left because of the cost of living crisis in terms of the energy and it and it's just you know it's shocking in terms of how we got to this place if you free the if 40 of the gas being used in the united kingdom is um the households you free the households from that You build a nuclear power plant or whatever.

And then all of a sudden gas prices at the pump will drop too, right? Just common supply and demand. They would plummet. Indeed. And that's kind of where nuclear is a huge thing. We need to get more and more nuclear across, not just in the UK, but in other countries.

France has been insulated a bit from these energy shocks. They are having solar humming issues. But France is a big nuclear nation. So France hasn't been impacted as much there. has been insulated a bit from these energy shocks they are having still having issues but france is a big nuclear nation so france hasn't been impacted as much there but why we're not using utilizing more nuclear even tidal energy is a good thing that we can be utilizing in the uk you know we're an island so only by tons and tons of water and sea we can be tapping into that you know i'm one of these people that you know whether or not climate change is damaging the planet is what people say in the carbon that's a huge big debate the people who are on both sides can argue and get in it for me i don't know can you argue it i don't

know if you can't i mean i don't know how it is in the uk but you can't speak out if you have a descending opinion on climate change you're also a racist a misogynist uh you get piled you get thrown in this pile of just fucking savages well that is pretty much where you on the main news channels that's kind of where you go and any anything that's going on in the world it's all linked to climate change according to some of our national broadcasters i think somalia's got a drought at the moment first thing they say climate change or if there's too much rain somewhere it's climate change it's always blamed on that i think we do need a grown-up debate but for me on just in terms of thing i don't think anybody thinks it's a stupid idea to have

cleaner energy renewable energy if we've got the technology to do it why not harness it right right no issue with that but moving so fast and cutting your kind of nose off despite your face by getting rid of other things when how much damage are they actually causing if you take the climate activists now if they existed two or three hundred years ago we would never have had the industrial revolution you know they would have just banned and stopped all of that so so your progress would have not happened if we looked in terms of what the climate activists are like now if they existed 200 years ago then god help us i i hate to be such a dickhead but um the fact that the poster child for that movement climate chain movement

is a little girl with asperger's uh i i think says it all that it's it's all emotional appeal there's no discussion there's no honesty um it it feels like it's it's the same as the the COVID thing yeah no I think so I think and what I found with COVID and with climate change quite often it's it's very political as in one group the all the people who kind of wanted lockdowns similar we in the uk we had a big vote a couple of years ago the brexit vote to leave the european union and you tend to find that everybody wants lockdowns didn't want to leave the european union a very kind of left-leaning in terms of their politics and they all think that the world is going to end tomorrow if we don't stop polluting the air that's what they keep kind of coming up with and and then on the other side people who don't want any lockdowns don't think there's any issue

with the climate there's probably some happy medium somewhere in all of this but you do tend to find two extreme groups kind of and polarizing views come on all of this and then it seems to be that the narrative is that yes net zero has to happen because climate change everybody we're going to destroy the planet in the next 50 years if we don't and if you try and put a counterbalance to that uh in the uk as you say you probably cancel from from talking about some of this for sure and and that's what needs happening because if we if people didn't speak out and talk about the damaging impact of some of the lockdowns and the policies that Canada have had in New Zealand and Australia, ironically, you take New Zealand and Australia. They have literally got rid of all their travel restrictions that it is open as ever. And the US still have them. Crazy.

and the u.s still have them and you're crazy they kind of come full circle and i'm always i don't think i don't know many people on the planet who've had covid more than joe biden he seems to have it every other week or something you know it's absolutely nonsense when when i look at when i go to google and i and i type in um uh covid and i type in New Zealand and Australia, and I stretch out the timeline to one year. You can see – let me see if it's letting me do it. Oh, let me see if I can go to all time here. It's fascinating because basically what New Zealand and Australia did is they locked down their country. Fascinating, because basically what New Zealand and Australia did is they locked down their country. And our CDC guidelines, even though our CDC didn't follow the rules at all, they said that you never quarantine healthy people.

Never, ever, ever, ever. It's like that's like the big no-no. And of course, they did do that in this country. And they took it to a mass extreme in New Zealand and Australia. And they basically they stopped the spread of COVID. And then they opened up and they had the highest rates by thousands of percents when they opened back up a few months ago.

Yeah. And they're still playing with quarantines again now. And it's like, I don't understand why they can't just look back 18 months and just be like, Oh shit, that didn't work. Well, the ultimate thing with this virus is

going to be that everybody was ever was always going to catch it so locking the country look at china now if you find one case in china that has a damaging impact on the world economy in a way because so much kind of the world supply chain comes cheaply from china they get one or two cases in china they lock the whole place down ironically this is where the virus started as well. They lock the whole country down or that part of the country. And it's not kind of like the lockdowns I imagine you had in the US and the UK where they basically say, oh, yeah, don't mix with certain families. They literally lock the country, you know, lock people in their homes. And if they leave the homes, they kind of get arrested and they take people away and put them in quarantine camps. Whereas I think in the US, which is

probably like the UK, where you just say, if you test positive, isolate, stay at home there, they take you off places. So you wouldn't even want to admit and find out you've got the virus. And it's just absolute madness that some countries are still in that place because China, I've always thought of it when i've explained this across the last couple of years has been it's like watching a movie isn't it you basically you're watching a movie on netflix or some or whatever you want to do on netflix you're watching something you press pause that's your lockdown so basically you say okay we'll pause it for a bit now we lock down and then when you unlock you press play again and

everything just starts mixing again so it was never going to stop people catching all of this the arguments were to not overwhelm health systems so people who may have caught it become really ill with the virus wouldn't get the care but we were locking down when the health systems were nowhere near becoming overwhelmed and that is absolute nonsense. And you're right, New Zealand and Australia, it doesn't surprise me if countries like that would bring things back. But in a global world where anybody could Google, it's difficult, I think, for governments to bring in really tough, stringent restrictions now when they see countries like the UK, the US is probably in most places headed in that way where there's literally no restrict it's back to normal in terms of what life was before the pandemic generally so it's difficult for countries to go all that way now if one thing

that's good has happened over the last couple of years is we realize how bonkers some of the things is and the interesting thing is in the summer in the UK here similar in other countries we saw another wave of the virus because it tends to, I think what goes on, you get these slight mutations because that's what viruses do. They mutate to survive. They become less deadly because if a virus is so good at killing people, then it'll kill itself because if everybody's dead, then it got nowhere to become the host. everybody's dead, then it got nowhere to become the host. So they become less deadly. They learn to be able to transmit. The more you tend to find they infect a load of people,

they then get some immunity from that infection. And then the virus starts dwindling again. And then a new variant might come along. And then people who didn't catch it the previous time, they catch it. So you do get these cycles of waves and they're going to continue for a long, long time, I think. Jamie, I would argue, and I've done this for two years, it's why I lost my account on Instagram, I think.

They don't even tell me why. But I would argue that not one single healthy person has died from COVID. What do I mean by healthy person? Someone who eats a diet of meat and vegetables, nuts and seeds, fruits and vegetables, no added sugar. I don't think that anyone who lives like that, someone who's – and now – and so there might be people who disagree with me, but I've scoured the internet looking for one healthy person who died, and I couldn't find them. I'm having a guy who got very close to dying on in a couple weeks who I think was very healthy.

But then the question is, did he come close to dying because they intubated him? Or was he really on his way? On the opposite end of that, I'd like to propose this, that not only has not anyone healthy died on this planet of 7 or 8 billion people. unhealthy died on this planet of seven or eight billion people but now the protocol the vaccine protocol has killed more healthy people than covid has killed healthy people maybe it's only 10 and zero but at this point i start to get i start to freak out a little bit i start to be like and unfortunately i think these people who may be dying from this the protocol to protect you from covid i think they might be all young men well yeah that sucks that yeah so so i think the difficulty you go and i'm speculating i don't know

for sure but but it's starting to some shit's starting to look weird yeah so i think what we've been seeing if take say the uk numbers is that over the last 20 weeks across the the uk and we're seeing in other countries as well as when you look at because we're at the point where obviously this the kind of the covid virus is not killing significant numbers of people now and what we're seeing is that the number of deaths we've seen across the country in the uk has been higher than what you would expect for the time of year and and what we what i mean by that is for october of 2022 compared to october of 2022 or 2021 yeah so from around may time in the uk we've taken the last 20 weeks across the uk we've been seeing more people dying the more you would

expect now so i've looked at the numbers being kind of help used to be responsible for them and dug underneath the kind of the headline figures themselves when you people talk more like excess deaths what that means is most people actually look at the the number of deaths they are occurring at the moment versus how many were occurring in the last five years and are we seeing more than what you'd expect so early on in the covid pandemic huge numbers because that was the virus ripped through lots of old people with care homes, killed lots of elderly people. So we saw that there. Now, the last 20 weeks, if we take the UK, or England and Wales,

so the UK split into four countries. So we just take England and Wales partially, because that's what the ONS published. We've seen 25,000 more deaths in the last 20 weeks than what you would expect looking at the five-year average now a part of that that people sometimes forget is that we had the second world war around 70 odd years ago 75 years ago and we got large numbers of people who were born after the second world war which was known as the baby boomers across many countries they reach in the

age where they would naturally be dying so we would expect more deaths now than what you would expect say five or six years ago because of a cohort effect of you know the aging of the population right so you can strip that out and that 25 000 comes down to about 10 000 overall but that's still 10 000 people more dying than what you would expect if the chance of dying was the same before the pandemic. And then you can start looking underneath the bonnet of the numbers a bit more and then looking at it. OK, where we strip out every death where a medical practitioner has mentioned COVID on a death certificate. And what you start finding then is that we're seeing more and more younger people, in particular around 40 to 60, dying,

the more you would expect. And heart issues comes up. Now, lots of people speculate then, is this due to the vaccination? Lots of people speculate, is this because of prior COVID infections causing issues that they then go on and die from a heart issue? I don't have the answer to that.

But I think what we do need to know by looking at, say, matched medical records is what is the vaccination status of these people? What's the previous COVID infection status of these people? And the one thing that has happened in the UK is the health system has just kind of given up over the last 20 weeks. We've got situations where... Given up? Is that the word you used? Well, I say given up in it's not working it's not fit for purpose because we've we sacked a load of care workers in the UK so people who would be looking after people out in the communities they got sacked because they chose you know some

people didn't want to have a COVID vaccine so we lost huge numbers of those we already had a care crisis in terms of staff so we've got a situation in the uk where we've got patients in hospital beds fit to leave they shouldn't be in a hospital bed they can't be discharged because we don't have enough people to look after them in the community now when people go into the accident and emergency area of the hospital they get clogged up because you can't discharge sorry move some of those to the wider part of the hospital because the beds are being blocked by people who are fit to leave, but we haven't got enough staff. Then an ambulance turns up with a new patient.

They can't be put into the actual hospital. So they're sitting in the back of an ambulance for, say, several hours. And then all of this builds up. And it could well be that putting, say, vaccinations or COVID aside, that people are having heart issues now who would have survived a few years ago. But because the health system in the UK isn't working very well, they're dying because they're not getting the timely treatment. So I think for me, what needs looking into is these excess deaths under the age of, say, 60, in particular, heart issues is coming up. We need to understand what's the fact on all of

this because yeah people will speculate it's vaccination some people are saying there are studies saying it's complications of having covid infections i'm looking at the data and saying well regardless of what's causing the heart issue the health system is in a very bad place and if you do get a heart issue you're more likely to die probably now than you did a few years ago people need to look at these numbers and match the data i don't i can't do it i haven't got access to it to kind of give us a definitive answer to it i i have i have three wow i have i have three three questions uh are you suggest like today i got a an email i can't even believe i get emails like this today i got an email from the local swimming pool saying that they don't have enough staff to operate the pool so the pool's closed today i can't i i mean there's got to be people who need that fucking job but

outside of that are you telling me that there's people who spend an extra night in hospitals in the uk and that this is a common practice because there's not someone to discharge them? Yeah, there's 13,500 patients in hospitals. Yeah, they just literally, they cost, obviously there's the cost to look after them in the hospital. I just get up and leave. They should be like, you're free, go. Yeah, well, yeah. But do you think these are the people who can't do that because they need that care in the community but because what we've got is i don't know how it's run in the us but we've got this massively

disjointed system in the uk and that you've got another reason why the health system's um kind of in a bad place is you've got your general practice practitioners you we call your doctor your gp that you'd go and see but trying to get an appointment there there's not enough of them we've got a huge surge in the population over the last 10 or 20 years we haven't kept up with the number of gp so you've got to try and get an appointment in the first place it's difficult some people can't get them they just go to a hospital even if they're not seriously ill so we've got a ticking time bomb in the uk as well in that same in other countries lots of people had their operations cancelled we've got a ticking time bomb in the uk as well in that same in other countries lots of people had their operations cancelled so we got huge waiting lists because of covid because covid

we some people coined the national covid service rather than national health service so you've got all of these different things going on and people will be dying of things because the health system has kind of come to a halt or it cannot cope because of all the people who didn't come forward for treatment because i don't know um what messaging you were getting in the uk but all we had was stay home protect the nhs save lives so it was a case of don't go to the nhs if unless you desperately need it the national health yeah they had some they had some of that some of that yeah and people genuinely took that literally and and some people who may have gone forward for some niggly issue which would have diagnosed something a bit more serious that's kind of not happened

and it could be that people are getting things worse now because they didn't see people at the time uh dear people of the world especially the united kingdom united states uh stop eating added sugar go to a crossfit gym there'll be a community of people there they will impart on you a lifestyle that will prevent you from 86 of the reasons that most people go to the hospital and you will not need to rely on this system it's really that easy i'm And if you don't have money, go to the website, CrossFit.com. I don't even like those guys. They fired me. But they have the cure to the world's most fucking vaccine problem. And you are crazy to continue down the pathway of living a lifestyle of sickness when you have to take control of your life now. You have to. I'm not asking,

don't eat a Twinkie, eat an apple. Just do it. Stop. Never buy soda pop ever again. Just drink water. Just quit. This is nuts. I think the obese people, Jamie. No fat shaming. Just just the facts. I think the obese people. I actually heard you in an interview say this, by the way, man, you're busy, man. you in an interview say this by the way man you're busy man you have there's last night i watched uh so many interviews that you've done thank you for doing that and getting out there and being honest and staying calm and not being partisan you're fabulous at it much better than me um i think that the obese people are have there's no comparison between the the impact they've had on what did you call it your nhs national health services compared to covid it's 10 it's 10 to 1 those of you who drink coca-cola i'd like that's why i don't even want to hear sorry here i go on my high horse i don't want to hear anything from someone who's obese about covid you have way bigger fish to fry. The impact that you are having on your care system in your country is nothing, or COVID is nothing compared to it. You are not taking responsibility.

You're being a bad human and therefore keep your mouth shut about the rest of us who are doing our part. Okay. No, I think, so when you break down the COVID thing, we had this big, massive kind of, there was a big divide with the vaccination status a lot about this time last year. Or maybe you've lost track of time now. But what people were saying is that most patients in the critical care beds were unvaccinated. You were selfish. You know, you should have been vaccinated against the virus. And we had the prime minister talking about it.

It was vicious in the United States. states yeah that was going along everywhere then okay when you start looking underneath the bonnet that 50 among all the people you were seeing parts of that going on but it was nowhere near the numbers they were quoting that sometimes they've seen nearly every patient in intensive care with covid is unvaccinated we were never near the situation where it was nearly all patients. And then when you look at the actual obesity thing, which is what you talked about there, you actually saw that when you compare the proportion of the population who are obese and then the proportion of people in intensive care, because of COVID, obese people were overrepresented in hospital as well. So obviously you've got obese

people to start with, but people who are obese, you can see when you look in the figures, COVID seemed to be a much worse outcome for them. And it comes back to your point about healthy people and where you prioritize it. So a good thing here then is that they're saying, oh, well, you need to have the vaccine. There's two rationales people came up with one of them was that you need to have the vaccine to stop infecting others where we do know that you get an initial protection when you look at the data you do get that initial protection when you've had a vaccine but it wanes really fast so in terms of the chances of you catching the kind of covid if you're vaccinated compared to if you say you're

unvaccinated the vaccine wanes really quick after you know within three months from the date of the ons does it offer any protection from transmission i didn't think it offered any i thought it was just symptomatic there is some transmission protection when you're looking at the kind of the data that the ons in the uk published you get an initial protection in terms of where you go but but they were talking like boris johnson in the uk the, you get an initial protection in terms of where you go. But they were talking, like Boris Johnson in the UK, the prime minister was saying, get that booster that stops you infecting others. That was his Christmas message last year, Boris Johnson.

And when he said, you know, you're watching anything. So if I have a booster or, you know, another vaccine, it will stop me infecting somebody else, which was nonsense. The data clearly shows it doesn't stop you. You get an initial reduction, but that doesn't last very long. How long is not very long, do you think? Well, the honest look is, yeah, so 90 days is kind of what we were seeing about a year or so ago. It might be different now because the vaccines that are being used, we've got different variants.

So there's just that very short initial kind of protection. So what about someone like me who thinks they've had COVID that offers the equal protection as the vaccine, right? Yeah, well, people who've had COVID will obviously be building up some immunity. And we're in a position now where I don't know hardly anybody. In fact, I don't know anybody who could tell me they've not had COVID. Oh, I was going to ask you that. OK, so we've all had it. I mean, they were they were saying that early on coming out of stanford you know uh john ionatis did that that paper very early on and he's like hey man the timeline's all screwed up i think everyone

in the u.s may have already had this well by now i think everybody would have probably called it some people i talked to saying well i have i don't think i've had it but if they've never if 80 of the people are asymptomatic, how would you even know? Exactly. That's the point I'm raising. And if you've caught it, you would be building up some immunity. So one of that was one of the rationales. And then the second rationale is you should have the vaccine to stop overwhelming health systems. Now, when you do look at the vaccination itself, what you will find, especially with the latest variant now the death rates among especially younger people who are healthy in particular but under the age of 50

the the death rate for people who are vaccinated or unvaccinated linked to covid is pretty much the same there is at the more extreme ages so 75 plus you do see that protection in terms of the death rates but again you're talking about a niche part of the population which is where you would generally offer kind of say vaccination for older people not the whole population so the other argument which is going back to that is have a vaccine so that you don't overwhelm the health system you're selfish if you don't but nobody then says well if you're obese you shouldn't be using health services either because There's this big thing about being a child. I would like to change that real quick, by the way. I apologize for saying obese, not because I give a fuck about fat shaming.

But the truth is, for you refined carbohydrate addicts, like saying obese is like saying those white people or those black people. Those refined – if you're a refined carbohydrate addict, if you wake up in the morning and you eat three bagels and chug down a Coke, you're the problem. Okay, sorry, just I wanted to throw that in there. No, and that's a valid point because people were getting kind of really attacked in terms of not having vaccines and saying, yeah, and you're a pariah because you're going to overwhelm our health system. But obesity, and the figures are pretty much clearly there, it to overwhelm our health system but obesity and the figures are pretty much clearly there it does overwhelm the health system so i was kind of saying that okay if you if you take the fact that you can't catch if you've got the vaccine or not you will still catch the virus and potentially pass it on to somebody else i got into some kind of debates

with people then about countries who say that you shouldn't you know you can't come in unless you're vaccinated or not so take the US if you're a non-US citizen you can't come in and people will say ah but that's the US making sure that you're less likely to use their health system okay if you want to go down that argument do you then say well if you're overweight and you're obese and you from abroad you can't come into the US because you might need to use our health system as well. It's exactly the same argument in terms of that. And even more real and more practical with a greater outcome if we were to do that. No, indeed, I try and look after my health. After we finish today, I'm going to jump on my

bicycle and try and knock out some miles because you know looking after your own health is really important as you've been talking about here and it's for some people it just seems to be that you need to have that vaccine you don't and and i think you've got up on the screen there one of the things that talks about the fact that you know obese patients were filling up covid beds more disproportionate than those who weren't obese and they can have a lot of underlying health conditions as well and that is an important part of all of this i think i went to disneyland a few months ago that i don't know if do you guys have one of those in the united kingdom they they have a euro disney over in paris so you can kind of see a bit of Mickey Mouse in Europe. I'm sorry. I apologize. And the vast majority of people there were massively obese, and I realized that Disneyland is actually not an amusement park.

It's where carbohydrate addicts go. Imagine, like, I hear about these parks in Europe where they've made it so it's legal to, like, shoot up drugs. That's what Disneyland is in the United States. It's a place to go eat without without shame all the sugar you want so there's just rows of like brick walls everywhere and it's just people shoving food in their mouth it is really something and uh when i walked around there i was like how did how did these people survive covid if you know i mean everyone i would say the average was 100 pounds i don't know how many is stone 14 pounds yeah stone 14 pounds yeah so it's like the average

person i would say was seven stone over like even kids jamie like kids being pushed around in carts because they were too it's crazy well my up my um my time i've been to the u.s a couple of times i went to new york and uh i think i ordered a burger because it was in a place with my mate ordered a burger and um it came and it was like three burgers i only wanted one burger oh that's just the standard three burgers and three different buns and loads of fries and i'm like the portion the portion sizes in the u.s i i would go for breakfast from my hotel and order something for breakfast and i would take away with me because i could use that for my lunch on my evening meal it was huge so the the amount the average american must be consuming if they're going out eating must be massive massively over massive massive um you coach do you coach kids

football yeah so that was why i've been um because obviously i'm over in the uk so that's what i've been doing kind of in this morning part of saturday morning here in the uk so coach kids football and and for covid again the the measures that were taken were absolutely bonkers there because they were they told children that you can't mix you can't do your sport after school with us. We couldn't coach them. Games were all called off because we didn't want you mixing the pass on the virus. So we had a really strange situation where to stop the spread, this is what they said, some of the kids who lived five miles over the border in terms of our local area that we're in, they weren't allowed to come football training because they were trying to stop people mixing over kind of the border.

Absolutely nonsense. And for me, best things, get the children out and about playing football, soccer and things, getting them running healthy. And those things were a curtail. They closed swimming pools you know everything they did was having a damaging effect on people's lives because leisure centers were closed you know gyms were closed people argue whether you could go outdoors and do some running on your own some people don't get motivated but they like going somewhere where they can do exercise with others so so the going back your point, the cure was creating probably more problems from a health perspective by curtailing people's health. My understanding of the cold

is it is not a seasonal thing. It has nothing to do with the weather, other than the fact that it's a correlate because during the winter, more people spend time inside and inside is where viruses spread and so actually the best place to be during some sort of event like this would be to be outside and and my whole family stayed healthy we took zero precautions and i mean zero um but but we spend i think 80 of our time outside yeah no indeed unless we're asleep yeah exactly so the children who were stopped from playing football outdoors were allowed to go indoors all day and mix in school anyway so it made no sense to kind of to stop them and you you're right if they were if you're getting doing more exercise you're a healthy individual healthier

individual anyway so even if you do catch a cold, the flu, the virus, your immune system is going to be in a much better shape to fight these things off. And that's one thing that seems to be forgotten a lot over the last couple of years, isn't it? It's the immune system. We do have an immune system. You can boost yourself by doing certain things.

But it all seemed to be, oh, forget the immune systems, just all going, have the vaccination, then have another one, then another one, then another one. Now, I did actually have two vaccines. I had COVID. I've not had any further vaccines. I don't think there's any need for that. And most countries are going around the world now.

So I'm kind of 43 years old, I am actually. And most countries now are moving to a point where they're not even offering vaccines for anybody under the age of 50 anymore and i don't understand the us's position where vaccines going down to the age of six months you know even you know some countries have got nowhere near that but offering vaccines and vaccinating children down to the age of six months for me when you look at the data and the relative risk to children, unless you're advised because you're a clinically extremely vulnerable child, and you might need some protection because this virus or whatever medical virus out there might

cause you, it's very, very little risk to very healthy children. And my children haven't had vaccination. And I don't think, you know, it's not for me to advise people yes or no to have medical interventions or not. Why would you put drugs in your child when all the evidence for all the other viruses in the world have shown that if they get the sickness, like no child in the United States

who ever got the measles got the measles again. But there's thousands, millions of examples of people who got the measles vaccine and got the measles got the measles again but there's thousands millions of examples of people who got the measles vaccine and got the measles and so and there's no harm being done to kids who get covid like zero yeah some children you know very clinically extremely vulnerable which you know yeah right but at that point they're not even like children right you mean like if they had leukemia yeah so people who you know well you would class in the uk terms clinically extremely vulnerable so you know whatever you know they will be vulnerable to practically anything right but they're they're a very very minor part of society which they need looking after but a blanket approach this is what we should do for all children so my children but i i caught

covid off my children they picked her up in school part of they they tested positive first because you have to have these tests to make sure you couldn't go into school or not and then i said i'll probably get it now lost my taste so that kind of i thought yeah i've got covid so they were fine in fact the best thing about covid for my son was he meant that he could go out in the garden instead of school playing football so you know this virus was so deadly to him he was out playing sport out in the garden throughout the whole period he had one night where I think he was a bit sweaty and after that absolutely fine and for me obviously it's not the same for every child but for me the vast majority were like that a lot

most of them actually didn't even know they had the virus but they have to test positive you know test to be able to go to school so that's when they found out that's probably a good follow this you know he caught the virus you know bodies forced to roll off got some antibodies from you know you know good stuff and you don't you feel good that he got it and made it through like he's a he's a better child for it well yeah but some people are yeah and some people on twitter say that oh you're a bad parent because you didn't try and do something to stop him catching it in the first place and coming back to the conversation you had i don't know anybody who hasn't had it you know people who've had one two three vaccines they've all had covid and and maybe it's a slightly different effect if you've had it or not but for children when you're

looking at the data you know they hardly die of anything anyway and the risk of dying from covid is very very small it reached a point actually in the uk where we've got a what's called the jcvi so it's the joint committee on Vaccination and Immunization. They are the group that make recommendations on if you should ever be having vaccinations or not. And we've got another body that approves vaccines and things. It got to the point that they thought there was they couldn't see the health benefit of a vaccine for children. So they asked the chief medical office to look at, are there wider benefits rather than just health for them to have the vaccine?

And then what was kind of come up with is that, oh, well, having a vaccine might mean you're less likely to miss school. So you should have one. That was the rationale given for vaccines for safe. Of course you should give your kid a vaccine. He loves riding in the car with the windows down it's a good excuse to go for a drive with your parents well i mean it's that kind of logic it's crazy i know and that was that was the criticism and and you know in terms of i was

critical of the point if if there's no if the health benefits don't outweigh you know the risks of having the vaccination for children and then they say they might be less likely to miss school. And they all caught the virus anyway, regardless of people who had the vaccines have all caught it. It just made no sense. And they're continuing to catch it. Indeed, they're still continuing to catch it. But the good thing is, like the latest data in the UK,

so I talked early on in the show here, that we've seen it is that start of the next wave the us will get it it comes back to your analogy around the cold yeah when people are more likely to be mixing especially around so we're at the point i don't know what the school terms are like over in the us but september is where all the schools come back after summer so that in theory creates a lot of household mixing event because say 30 children in a class they're in a school hall lots more having dinners and things lots of mixing going on more and more people are all mixing indoors so the virus is more likely to spread and then you pick it all up

and that's kind of what we're seeing in the UK we'll see increases in colds we'll see increases in flu and that's kind of where we are. And everybody's been kind of vaccinated against this or people who haven't had a vaccine have had the virus itself. So it's not the same position as where we are two years ago. But you will have people in the US, I guarantee, give it a couple of weeks. You'll start seeing an uptick in cases like the UK, France, Italy, Germany. seeing an uptick in cases like the UK, France, Italy, Germany are, and you'll have people in your media saying, I think we need to start bringing some of these restrictions back in. Let's get masks back in.

Maybe we should start shutting some things down. That's what you're going to see. I guarantee that over the next six or seven weeks in the US. I want to show you, I want to answer your question for you. I don't know if you can you see the screen? Yeah, I can see the screen. Yeah. This this is to answer your question why we don't let people these people I'm showing you are the rulers of our of our country. This is crazy. This is why we don't let people in who are unvaccinated because we take precautions like this what's crazy too is this is all show to these people the second the camera goes off they don't

behave like this at all oh no i know so these kind of shows where it's so fake it's so crazy yeah all in the green room uh with each other um before the show after the show on air i always used to watch a lot of these television shows and and you would see i don't know if you had it in the us as well but they're on a panel show and they put the perspex screen between them yeah you just got literally somebody think of a panel show where you've got three people sat and they'll put a perspex screen it's an airborne virus for god's sake so this thing well the airborne virus isn't going to manage to get itself up and back down again but they're all probably partying and having a beer in the green room beforehand and it was a

lot of it theater and show and now it's all gone and the thing for me which was interesting is the summer we got rid of all literally every covid restriction in the UK. And around June time, we started getting the next wave of the virus going up. So it was kind of one of the variants to come out of South Africa. So we had, again, oh, the virus is starting to go up. We need to bring things back. Government said, been there, done that. We're done, basically. We're not doing a single thing.

So what we saw, the the cases and i was on the media in the uk because you had some people on there as well saying panic panic panic we were four or five weeks behind south africa and portugal in terms of this variant that was hit in the country and what you could see just by looking at the data there is they again they did absolutely nothing they were done with the restrictions south af, Portugal, pretty much at the same time. Cases went up. Four or five weeks later, they all started coming down again. They didn't do a single thing.

It was following similar patterns to what you were seeing when all these restrictions were coming in. So we were four weeks behind. So I said, I was on some media channels, because people were saying, oh, should we be panicking? Should we be bringing back in new restrictions? said i wouldn't panic at all i can guarantee you if we follow what's happening in portugal and south africa in four weeks time everything will start falling naturally we won't have to do a single thing and then what happened four weeks later to the practically to

the dot we started seeing things coming down without doing a thing and then you start thinking would that have happened possibly in all the previous times where we did stop bringing all of these different restrictions in and and that's what will probably happen now even if we don't do a single thing in the uk france italy let the us do nothing carry on cases that go up give it four to six weeks they'll all start coming back down again and those people who are calling uh-oh what do you think happened his battery died censored censored uh i wish that would be cool the guy it's fascinating he knows all the numbers and he got and uh it's fascinating

so so four weeks to the day it um basically it's the same pattern you can see the pattern of this thing it's basic it's like one of those flies right that's born in the morning and has sex all day and then dies at night and like like, that's just what they do. Yeah, you could see it bang on in the data is literally four weeks on six weeks on. It was a slightly a bit longer give or take a week. And that's what you can learn from because going back to the very start of what we were discussing data, ultimately, you know, you're just looking at the data and following the data rather than this kind of panic mode that people go into. A quick look at what was going on in another country. We're all humans. Yeah.

We look at what was going on there. Do nothing and they'll all be fine in four weeks time anyway. That's exactly what I was saying. People were saying, you're talking nonsense. We know we need to get the masks back. Maybe we should stop people mixing in households again. I said, it's all going to be fine. Portugal had it, did nothing four weeks later. So that's what's going to be interesting now is the difference between, say, June to now is the point you made. That was that we're going to probably have, it may probably be a bit higher and a bit more prolonged because we're at that point of the year where more and more people will be mixing indoors. But it'll go up and I would guarantee the cases and start coming down again in six weeks time and does

cases matter anymore of course not it's more about how many people are getting seriously ill and it's very few now get seriously ill from this and then going back to your point about healthy people very few if any healthy people will be getting ill from this. And for all you crackpots out there that like in October, you like to grow a mustache for colon cancer or whatever, like you, why not just choose the one month a year where you just stop eating added sugar and let your NK cells and your T cells and your immune system become really robust.

Anytime you want to eat added sugar or processed food, have something else set up. Drink a glass of water. It's only 30 days of your life. Just try it. It's your life. Experiment. Have fun.

Just 30 days of any time you want to stick something processed food in your mouth instead or something with added sugar. Instead, just drink a glass of water. Just try it. Hey, look, I'm going to cut you a break. 29 days. If you start now, I'll only. Just try it. Hey, look, I'm going to cut you a break. 29 days. If you start now, I'll only make you do it 29 days.

You get the deal. Is it – Jamie, I heard that like to criticize the NHS in the UK is like – would be like if you're a Catholic and criticizing the Vatican. I heard it's like just a political bomb. Is that true? Oh, yeah yeah it's like scary to criticize the nhs they're like untouchable yeah that that so when we were going through the pandemic and and you can't deny health systems across the world were hit and they were extreme pressures my my partner works in the nhs herself and and you could see there's huge numbers of the partner meaning your girlfriend yeah lady your friends were close with yeah so she yeah and she was the lady you like the lady you have a crush on yeah so she's a midwife and so uh babies come and go every single day of the

year don't they so yes there's no there's no day off for a midwife but but what um the nhs every thursday it's, it's, uh, we were all told to go out on our doorsteps and clap. So we were all kind of clapping. People were told to go and clap for the NHS because of all the hard work they're doing on COVID. But when you saw the UK, they did that. That sounds like something they do in China.

Oh no. Yeah. The UK, every, and it was broadcast on the BBC, you know, our main broadcast. And they would say,

right. It's, um, and maybe seven or eight o'clock, said, we're now going to go. And they would literally have cameras in people's streets, watching them all standing on the doorstep, clapping hands for solidarity for the NHS. The thing with the NHS, so I'll just explain a bit about it. So our National Health Service was literally free for everybody. You don't pay into any insurance.

There's that word again, free. But it's free, yeah. But but it's free but somebody has to pay for it it's all paid through via taxation and because there's no kind of interaction in terms of yeah there you go i think on the scene clap for our carers yeah it was going on every single um every single week and and because it's there's no real transaction in the uk with the health system, apart from dentistry with your teeth, where it's in the NHS, most of the patients who get treatment through the NHS, you do pay for it. Most of it is literally you don't pay a penny for any of the NHS access other than through general taxation. So but what you've got is that it just gets sucked in and sucked in and sucked in with money. What we've got huge numbers of managers in what you would call our national health system. Recently, a six figure salary. So you're talking over a hundred thousand pounds, hundred thousand dollars equivalent.

A manager who's been recruited, nothing to do with patients, a manager, because this is big drive in the UK. All this kind of woke brigade, which is a manager of looking after diversity and inclusion to ensure that... And you're paying a salary to somebody to be the director of diversity and inclusion. And this is just one part of the NHS. The way the UK's NHS works is we have lots of trusts, which were basically... Think of little areas across the country

imagine split in the us i've been to lots of different small areas and they're all managed kind of the national health service but all managed by individually by certain trusts so six figures managers all have mental illness by the way which is fascinating to be in that place to sit there and judge people by the color of their skin or to hire people but not not based on their capabilities but based on their their traits whether they have blue eyes or brown eyes or or whose genitalia they like and rubbed in their face that you have to have a mental illness they're bringing it's like it's like inviting the quackadoodles into the how could that be in hospitals i was at a um i was at a talk last

night there were some heavy hitters there some people that you know people like jay badacharya out of stanford and one of the guys presented and he's talking about how in medical schools they're they're reducing they're reducing the ability to get in and the ability to pass based on the color of your skin by significant amounts. I'm like no black person or white person or Chinese person or Mexican person wants a subpar medical practitioner. Can we just all agree on that? Can we just keep the woke shit out of the hospital? I don't want to discount on my heart surgeon. I'll take the guy from Bangladesh, please. No, I just want to do with the highest test scores. You know, it's like, sorry, it's nuts.

I don't want that for my mom. I don't want that for your mom. I want our moms to have the best dude. And here's the thing. Here's the thing. What am I supposed to do now? Every time I see a black guy now i think he's a sub subpar medical practitioner that's all you're making me do you're not making me think

oh this is so great that there's a black guy it's not like that no one thinks that even the black people are like shit i don't want the black guy it's like what the fuck are they doing no i know and and so and the salaries of some of these these managers are more than double sometimes treble what you would pay your nurse and so they say we have okay sorry for my tirade i just it's it's nuts yeah it is absolutely nuts and for me so going back to the political nhs yes yes yeah you so you've got these if you try and mention anything about reform, so even if you just mention the thought that maybe rather than, if you want to see your doctor, your GP, your general practitioner, maybe you charge them 10, 20 pounds, which is normal in most countries. You know, even in Republic of Ireland, which is right next door to the UK, that's just normal practice. You mention that and then you start saying, this is ridiculous.

You can't privatize the national health system. It it's free for everybody it should always be free for anybody so any criticism you label at the nhs or any thought of how you would change it it's just immediately shut down and that's why nothing should be free for anyone human beings aren't set up to appreciate anything free no exactly that. And so where you've got now is the system, it's the national health system, which we talked about, that you can't discharge patients because there's not enough care workers.

It needs to all be joined up. It needs to be better run. But no party will ever reform it, probably for the better, because as soon as they mention it, the public are then, oh, they're trying to sell it off for people to make profits

and it's going to be really bad. And that's what's always talked about, okay? Now, the thing for me with the National Health Service in the UK, if it was such a good service and if it was well managed and well run, it would be copied everywhere in the world. It's not copied anywhere. And you're right, you're spot on. It's seen as some religion.

Any criticism of the NHS is just kind of derogatory. You don't want to be going there, some people sometimes say. Two months, I saw in one of the interviews you did, you and the panel were discussing that if you get diagnosed with cancer, you don't start treatment for two months if you're lucky. Yeah. I was like like what the fuck is going on that is this sub-sahara africa yeah outcomes for cancer patients in the uk aren't

aren't great compared to some comparable countries and it's just be getting that diagnosis has been the big issue because if you we've had that i would say that mantra stay home protect the nhs you might have got that and we've i don't know what it's like in the us but we've had that, I would say that mantra, stay home, protect the NHS. You might've got that. And we've, I don't know what it's like in the U S but we've had this big shift because of COVID and not seeing people that you should, the doctor that you want to see you do it all over the line on zoom. Now we had, we had a little bit,

a little bit of that. Yeah. And now, and now it's gone away. Now, now it's like, you can go back in, but we were lied to in the United States.

The Obama administration and I fell for it too. They talked about this thing, universal healthcare. But there was always universal healthcare. Healthcare was always free in the United States for people who couldn't pay it. And so many people wanted to say, no, that's not true. That's not true. That is true. I know a ton of fucking poor people.

I was homeless for many years. If I needed healthcare, I just went into the hospital. And what, basically what they did is they said, Oh, register, register for Obamacare. Well, it became a pay to play. And so the rich people like, like if you can afford healthcare, it doesn't, here's another thing in the United States. It's a misnomer to call it healthcare. Someone like me, I only purchase health insurance so no one will – if I get sick, no one can take my empire from me, all my homes and cars and all my fun toys I have. That's the only reason why I have healthcare is to protect my assets. So the whole thing is just – it's like numbers again. People don't know how to think about it because we're being tricked or it's

like this word free or the words matter. No, indeed. And that's what winds me up when we talk about the free. You don't ever get wound up, Jamie. Don't ever say that again. I haven't seen you get wound up once.

I can already see you like excited to ride your bike. Wow. Yeah. But no, people say, yeah, free at the point of delivery but as you say it's not free and and people have to pay for it somewhere and when you've got what you would see

is consumerism not there people think oh well it's free i'll just go along i'll just i'll just and i think for me like i say i would and you've been talking about you know obesity and all the kind of stuff that people might eat and things. But if you say to somebody that you would pay 20 pounds, say $20 to go and see your GP, they'll be, that's ridiculous. I can't afford that. The same person will pay $20 for a Domino pizza takeout. And you think, so you can afford to get that, but you can't afford if you've fallen a bit ill to go and pay $20 to see the GP. That's what the mentality some people have that yeah i can't afford 20 to see or 20 pounds to see a doctor but you will blow 20 pounds easily on something that's going to be unhealthy for you anyway so i think we're rebalancing and trying to think that because it could well be that you know

you still have to pay for these gps through taxation but if you've got that thing where do i really need to see them or am i just a bit of a hypochondriac even 50 pounds even 50 pounds exactly and it seems that seems so cheap yeah relative to what you're going for how often do you need to go exactly and and and same with our lnhs dentistry we pay if i want to go and see the dentist here to have a fill-in or check up on my teeth i'll have to pay for that so we don't have complete system in the uk where you don't pay for something yeah i will go along pay for it and if i need three four fill-ins thank god i don't generally but if i did need more kind of treatment they don't charge me

tons and tons more they will say well there's a flat charge but at least you're getting some money in and i think that's kind of where you need to get to in a way let's say the us system where you've got medical insurance you're technically paying for something and somebody hedging a bet against you in terms of where you're going to get ill or not and it'll be very dependent on say your lifestyle in a way the government's the insurer isn't it it's just yes well said wow it's just insuring everybody and but because there's no assessment made of anybody people like i would imagine and i'm okay paying into that i'm okay paying to the the church of the united states government for people who like whatever happens, they lose their job. You have hard times.

You can't. I'm okay paying a little more so that everyone has this robust system. I know I don't tax the system. That's cool. I'm okay with that. I'm okay still paying into it. I'm not a fucking monster. Yeah, exactly.

It's spot on. You know, we all try and look out for each other right we can and that's the right attitude to have i think let me ask you a hard question maybe it's not hard um you said you got the vaccine now that you see the numbers of the excess deaths does any part of you go hmm maybe i shouldn't have done that? No, I generally don't think that. I think, did I need it or not at the time, looking at all the data, in terms of where we were at the time in the pandemic, I hadn't had COVID, you could see things.

I took the decision based on the data I got. Lots of people did. I think now more and more people have had the virus itself. People are probably looking in making the decision not to have extra kind of vaccinations because you know it's not a very good vaccination when you think about it in that you've got well the truth is it's not a vaccine at all well yeah but if you've got to have something every three months then you think well hang on this is the only beneficial person that you know overall is the bloody vaccine companies and the amount of money that they're making from it.

So when you start looking at it from that perspective, we need something better like the flu vaccinations that we have, which you tend to have. And with that, once you've caught the flu, again, you're going to get a buildable or a natural immunity. So, yeah, no regrets in terms of having it. But whether or not people, in terms of where we are now i think we're in a much different place to where we were say 2020 and 2021

okay okay i'm not gonna let you off the hook jamie let me rephrase the question if you could go back in time would you have gotten it well it's different uh as i say it's different to where we are now in terms of right right things that like if i'd caught covid for example and had covid before the vaccination rollout come out it would be a different decision as well there because you would think well i've had the virus what's the benefit of having the vaccine on top of that because i've already had it right so it's a hypothetical question because it all depends on what happened in the sequence of events, isn't it?

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. I really appreciate your honesty, your calmness, your just looking at the numbers. It's awesome. Do you have a newsletter?

No. So on my website, most people can find everything I'm up to just on Twitter because I post my blogs up there, any interviews or just generally what's going on, on anything to do with the climate, cost of living, crisis,

COVID, general health, kind of cover off, not just the UK as well, what's going on in other countries, highlighting some of the bonkers stuff Biden's coming up with. So you can find me on Twitter. Yeah.

I think you're on the screen there, Stats Jamie, and always posting some stuff up on there. So keep people informed. It says on the top, Stats, Facts, and Opinions. So it's generally lots of stats and facts and with an odd opinion thrown in as well.

And then you're also on Instagram. Yep, so Stats Jamie everywhere, actually. So on Facebook, Stats Jamie, Instagram, Stats Jamie, I think on Getter as well. So kind of you're also on instagram yep so stats jamie everywhere actually so on facebook stats jamie instagram stats jamie i think on getter as well so kind of kind of find me everywhere if you need to even on tiktok i think stats jamie official on tiktok so you kind of find me all over the place and um and there's so you got a copy of my website up there as well and and why tend to if something requires a bit more than 140 characters or a very long thread that's what i think oh well i'm going to explain this point i'll put one of my

blogs up just to put some of the charts up because sometimes you just need to explain things a little bit more than than the twitter character limit will allow you to um there's a this one. After the show's over, guys, go to statsjamie.co.uk and go to the blog and read this one. This one's fascinating. I love a private jet. I'm so happy that I've had the opportunity to fly around the world in luxury. But if you're going to fly around in a private jet, just like if you're a refined carbohydrate addict, shut the fuck up about climate change. No one. Just shut it. Shut your mouth.

I don't want to fucking hear a peep out of you about climate change. And you're flying around in that beautiful piece of machinery. Thank you, Jamie. You're a great great dude you guys have a good afternoon still morning there isn't it so you have a good morning and yep i'm about to go out and party with the kids myself don't blame it have a good one cheers guys bye ciao well that was cool yeah you don't want he he he's uh he's tightrope walker i like it i'm impressed yeah i feel like he's probably gotten pretty good at it considering he's been on so many shows

uh bruce is talking about his ex-wife in here. What's this? My ex-wife is the same Travis being in the army. I had to. What is this over here? A $6 Starbucks daily is more expensive than a CrossFit gym. Yet people will choose one over the other. CEO shirt at Vindicate. Please, please, please.

You know you want one. Please. Stop. Stop what? Say it again want one. Please. Hoodies 2. Say it again? Hoodies 2. Hoodies 2, yes. At Vindicate and Life is Rx. Thank you, Kenneth. Kenneth, thank you for all

the comments, by the way, that you put on YouTube and Instagram. And I see you out there, buddy. You're killing it. YouTube and Instagram and I see you out there buddy you're killing it I went to a pretty cool party last night oh yeah

yeah and there was Russell Berger was there and Dave Castro was there and it was it was cool I hadn't seen Russell in so long it was so fucking cool seeing Russell Berger that guy Jay Bhattacharya was there from Stanford. William Briggs was there.

One of the greatest philosopher mathematicians alive today. Rodney Mullen was there. I hung out with Rodney for like over an hour and a half. Isn't that the skateboarder? Yeah, world's greatest skateboarder. That was crazy. Yeah, we had a pretty passionate talk um uh gary taubes was there gary taubes told me some crazy shit we were talking about obese people and uh he

i should have him on i shouldn't speak for him but he basically he says that it's not their fault there's nothing they can do and i hated that i was like gary you can't say that he's like why i'm like you can't argue people's limitations for them but man he had some fucking interesting points he had some fucking fascinating points i told him i was dogmatic and i can't i can't do that say that again. Yeah. I'd like to hear what he has to say about that. That's weird. Yeah. Rodney, Rodney's there. Me and Rodney and this dude who is 40 years in the DEA and this girl from

Northeastern University who's 22, we sat like all hunched over in our chairs. Our heads were just six inches apart from each other because the party was so loud. And we talked for an hour and a half. It was nuts. It was crazy. Rodney was telling crazy stories.

Nothing having to do with skateboarding. All having to do with the world. It was cool. That's awesome. Who else were there? There were some other fucking pipe hitters there there there were some other pipe hitters there there were some pipe hitters from hq there who still work there i was surprised to see yeah i i don't know i probably i don't know if i should out them

i don't know if it's a good thing or bad thing that they're there but it was really nice to see them it was a crazy party greg greg gets mariachi bands for his house what yeah it's crazy so there's so there's this first there's these lectures right him and william briggs give these fucking incredible talks they're like 40 minutes each okay do they does he like go up on his fireplace and stand and then just like give this lecture yeah he brought he got a deus he got a uh what's what are the is that what is that what those things are called a A lectern or a Deus? Okay, a lectern. Yeah, he had one.

And he got one from the old HQ office, and then some people just went and borrowed it. He knows the owner of the building and borrowed it from him. But then he had also ordered one on Amazon that me and this other guy – everyone there was a fucking pipe hitter. this uh other guy everyone there was a fucking pipe hitter was this guy will right who's like a you know 30 years uh super high-end um uh cardiac radiologist me and him put that together the other lectern in case in like greg chews and then they go up there and lecture and there's 70 people in there and there's it's in his living room yeah and there's chairs in his house is the house is massive right huge vaulted ceilings crazy view looking out over the pacific ocean a couple miles away all into this forest i got covid from that from jamie and um and then uh and and there's

there's a there's a plate of meat on the table and that's it with toothpicks everywhere so like anyone can go by with a toothpick and grab a piece of meat. And then this guy from Miho shows up. That's a famous taco place in town. And he sets up this massive taco stand with all fresh guacamole, all that shit. And as soon as they're done talking, everyone goes outside. And he's got all these – and it's cold as shit, and the fog's rolling in. But he has these chimineas.

Do you know what a chiminea is? It's a big steel thing, and he has them all over the property, and each one of them is filled with like three trees just burning, so they're so fucking crazy. I talked to this guy, Jake Vonderplass. He's like one of the head guys in charge of AI at Google. I talked to him for an hour and a half, just me and him. Asking him, I was asking him some crazy questions.

And I asked him if he'd come on the podcast. He's like, no. Can't give out the secrets. I could just tell like Google's Woketopia, crazy Woketopia. Oh, for sure. Yeah, they fucking hate the black man there they hate they fucking they they're on the leading edge of ai though no uh don was not there don don was not there i i but you know what he may have been invited i'm not sure um

my this is the first guava these are the first three guavas that have fallen off my tree But you know what? He may have been invited. I'm not sure. This is the first guava. These are the first three guavas that have fallen off my tree for this season. They're small and they're premature, but I have thousands and thousands of guavas. So now it's guava season. We're still on passion fruit season two. I get about 50 of these a day for my passion fruit vines, but these are going to start dropping. They're pineapple guavas. This one's little. I don't even know if it's right but you basically just you bite the top off and the fruits in there okay you just eat that yeah and then you just squeeze it kind of juice in your mouth and it was just like and then it's empty it was just like the bug yeah cool right that's dope never have so sweet and so good yeah seven why don't you leave california well

i have a hundred fruit trees on the property that's good that shit you don't have any gu fruit trees on the property. That's good as shit. You don't have any guava trees around where you're at? No guava trees. No trees, period. No trees, right? No trees? No trees.

Anything green? Somebody brought some seeds and they're like transplanting stuff here just in pots. They're trying to grow some greenery just for fun just for morale soldiers a soldier yeah wow that's cool uh no no palm trees

no cactuses no nothing lots of suvs yep I do have a bunch of pomegranate trees also yeah Nothing. Lots of SUVs? Yep. I do have a bunch of pomegranate trees also, yeah. I don't get a lot of pomegranates.

I bet you this year I get like 50. But in the years past, I bet you I've gotten like maybe 20, a year before that, like five. But I think they're doing better and better. I think Don got some balls. He must know that Seve deals it out on the current CrossFit to come on as brave. I hope you're going to hit the mother up with all the questions. I'm not.

I'm actually not. I'm going to be. Well, I don't know. You've been wanting to come back. What the fuck? Yeah. I don't know what's going to happen, but I will treat him with the utmost respect respect there'll be no gotcha shit i mean some people think i'm playing gotcha with them with them i i never try to actually the thing is i'm never

trying to play gotcha with anyone like that question i asked that guy at the end i told myself in my notes i knew that he was vaccinated and i wasn't going to ask him that. But once he opened that door to being vaccinated, then it was okay for me to ask, do you regret getting vaccinated? But I wasn't going to ask. I'm not, I'm not. No reason to call him out for it. Yeah, I'm not. I don't want to like. I don't want to fuck with people.

I'm not trying. There was the, there was a guy at the party yesterday who listened to the podcast, and he's like, I know you're always just trying to be provocative or he said some shit, and I'm actually not. I'm not trying. I'm actually not trying. I'm not – I just have some questions. It's the same thing. Yeah, I'm not. But I just know that if I feel uncomfortable asking the question, it's probably a good question. Right?

Yeah. You also have to feel comfortable that that person is going to be okay with answering the question. Right. Right. And I'm not doing it like – so here – this is going to be a weird one. I'm not asking Pat Vellner on the CrossFit podcast what color his pubes are to be provocative or because I think it's crazy. It's because the question actually popped in my head. Oh, I wonder if his pubes are red. wonder if his pubes are red it's i'm not like it doesn't come up what are the five most provocative questions i could ask are uncomfortable it's never never ever ever like that half the time to be honest i'm like holy shit i wish i didn't think of that question now what am i going to do with it

now either have to swallow it down or it has to come out and we definitely don't see that on the show so they're definitely coming out asking that gym owner uh uh why he's not married was it got you oh i and you know i think i um who was i think i i regretted asking that there's so few times i regret asking questions i regretted asking that but it did it wasn't like i wasn't like I was just curious because I didn't get married. So so I didn't get married until after I had Avi. So I always wonder like, oh, I wonder if this guy like what he thinks, what his thoughts are on marriage. But then afterwards, I just thought the way it was in context because his girlfriend or wife might be listening was inappropriate.

Yeah, that I didn't like that. I didn't like that. I didn't like that. I did that. Um, what was that guy's name? That wasn't cool. I don't know. Swallowing seems so much more, uh, I don't know about, yeah, I don't know about this, Eric. Um, yeah. Goblin. Last night I was in bed, Travis, and i was actually thinking about the fact that we played that clip and i had two thoughts i thought it's so funny i thought oh i was driving home from the party last night i thought i can't believe i played that on my podcast i cannot fuck i think because i get in these different moods i'm like what am i thinking that this girl with giant tits is on there looking at the camera saying she's gobbling cock it's like my mom watches the show i cannot

even fucking but then on the other hand i was thinking oh that was really cool caleb and i are really grooving he knew to play it twice in a row that needed to be played twice in a row and so i'm like torn i'm so torn and i'm like okay and i just let that shit go i'm like torn. I'm so torn. And I'm like, okay. And I just let that shit go. I'm like, okay, do not think about it. It's that refractory clarity. Yeah.

But I was really excited when you played it twice. So some shit just has to be, and I always like it, how you let the beginning play again. If it gets cut off, you know, sometimes we start the clip in the first three seconds, get cut off.

And then you let it, when it comes back around, you let it play for another 10 seconds. Some people can be like, oh, okay, that's what we missed. I love all that, but that one needed to be played twice in a row it was short it was crazy and the way i the truth is it's just funny the way she says it oh

gobbling that cock just the way she it wasn't even yeah she's like just so down for it she's like yeah her delivery was all right you know who sends me all those is jeff bako all the fucking crazy like like he sends me so much of like the the hot chick shit and the bouncing boob stuff i don't even show one tenth of it uh yeah i get a lot of those too it's crazy i don't send too much um i don send, there's this thing that boys do where they, they send that and I get a lot of it and I'm appreciative of it, but I don't really send that stuff. I don't send like an alligator eating a dog or if I, I mean,

like I don't send like the giant boo girls to, to other people. I'm trying to think someone did, What did someone send me the other day? I think you sent me one like a year ago, but I haven't gotten anything from you since. Someone sent me like a really hot girl and then she turned around and she had a penis a few months ago.

I think I sent that to a few people I don't like. Here, you deal with this. But, yeah. Those ones are weird. The Mill guys love that stuff, right? Mill guys love sending each other the girl who's hot who turns out to be a dude. They love that.

Oh, yeah. We send the most disgusting things. It's all Mill dudes who send me that shit. Not surprising. All right. Oh, I didn't. I'm just holding my guavas and I haven't looked on who we have on tomorrow. I don't think we have anyone on tomorrow.

Oh, shit. We do. We have Lisa, the identity doctor. Oh, this is going to be a trip. This chick's a trip. Tomorrow is probably going to end up being like a psychiatry session for me. She's one of the drugs that fucking all right, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. She's very attractive. She's very smart. She's very poetic. When I listen to her stuff, I'm like, is this poetry or is what is what's going on here?

what is what's going on here um and she has really she has some uh strong opinions and insights into identity and it'll be fun to like you know pick her brain i asked one of the doctors there yesterday if he thinks that um bad hab bad eating like kids who are 100 pounds overweight at eight years old or even 50 pounds overweight eight years old is affecting their hormones to such a level that it's what's causing all this you know transgender shit and he said 100 100 i was like oh god wow i don't know if you got if you want to go down a fucking rabbit hole look what happens to kids um genitalia who are obese at a young age. It is really fucked up. Read about that shit.

It is really fucked up. It's not good. I know more about boys than girls, but man, it's fucked up. I want to fucking ruin a kid. Ruin their whole life. Born a perfectly healthy child, and then then by seven because of what you fed them you've rocked them i i will try you i will tell you this the craziest thing ever this is weird to kind of tell the story and admit it on so many levels but we talk for an hour and a

half and like i want to say to him hey will you come on my podcast but part of me thinks that what that does is that kind of i'm afraid that he's going to jump to the conclusion that i only that i that i want something from him and i don't want to i don't want to be that person but then as i'm getting up he's he's so nice you know you can't he says could i get your phone number and i felt some movement in my pants. And I was like, of course. So maybe we will. Yeah, exactly.

Maybe we will. Maybe we'll get them on. All right. See you guys tomorrow. 7am Pacific standard time with Lisa, the identity doctor. Thanks Caleb.