The Sevan Podcast - #658 - Gav Pratt

Episode Date: November 2, 2022

Director of Strength & Conditioning for the UFC Performance Institute Support the showPartners:https://cahormones.com/ - CODE "SEVAN" FOR FREE CONSULTATIONhttps://www.paperstcoffee.com/ - THE COFFEE I DRINK!https://asrx.com/collections/the-real... - OUR TSHIRTS... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Let's go seize the night. That's the powerful backing of American Express. Visit amex.ca slash yamex. Benefits vary by card. Other conditions apply. Bam, we're live. I started a minute early to address this Clydesdale thing. You guys made me nervous.

Like, there was a show tonight, and I didn't know there was a show tonight. I was like, oh, we're live. I wasn't. They were saying in the comments, are you guys ready for the show tonight and i'm just like wait what show because i because susan i've been going back and forth on the schedule of shitload and i didn't see anything on the schedule but i think what i'm seeing is uh travis from vindicate who does the shirts for the seven podcast and hillar fit and many others now in the community. It sounds like he's going on with Scott Schweitzer,

Switzer, Schweitzer, Switzer, Schweitzer, Mr. Butter. Hi, how are you,

brother? Good to see you. Always. I'm pumped about this show this morning, guys. I am really, really, really,

really, really, really really really pumped Good morning, Bruce Wayne good to see you brother miss Riddell good to see you geez Louise Kev good morning. I don't know if I've seen Kev before I apologize if I My memory is not Sitting it with me well.

Do you guys know who we have on? Oh, Devesh, good morning. Devesh, where are you? Are you in the States? I just see your name, and I just think you're not in the States. But maybe you are in the States. There's probably a lot of Deveshes up in Palo Alto and Silicon Valley. My kid went to a, uh,

tennis tournament in Lafayette, uh, California. And it was just, it was predominantly, uh, Indian cats and Asian kids. Big,

big sport for those, for those people in this area, for the bougie, for the bougie. My wife said, uh, Ari sport for those, for those people in this area, for the bougie, for the bougie. My wife said, uh, Ari was the only, he said Ari was the only white kid at the tennis tournament. It's not a very diverse sport. Hi, Gavin. What's up, brother? How are we guys? Good to see you. Good morning, dude. I am so pumped to have you on.

It's lovely to meet you both. It's, it's. It's really nice to be on. Thank you so much for having me. Dude, crazy. Are you living the dream or what? Oh, I think that's what we all say. It's definitely a good thing to be in Vegas in a different country and all those experiences that come with it, for sure. You are a man, a aficionado of human movement and health and performance at the highest level, and now you've landed in an institute that – I don't think it's arguably. I think it is the most profound thing human beings can do with their health and fitness and movement and that's to uh fight off other men and women it's it's crazy well it's for sure the most on the line is the most is on the line there's no other sport i mean there's probably some obscure sport

in the mountains of afghanistan that has more more on the line but but i mean holy cow you're doing it and look i i daily have this huge respect for these men and women. They're warriors. And one of the craziest things about this sport is that they only get to generally compete two to four times a year. So let's say you have a bad scrap. You don't do well in your fight. You've got to mull on that for three to four months before you get the opportunity to go

again. Now, can you imagine the nerves of having a bad game of football? I'll just go next week and I'll just change that around and here we go again. You've got to wait three or four months where you mull over the bad decisions you made. And it's not like you lost by points a lot of the time. You might have lost fairly brutally as well. So I couldn't do it professionally that's for sure you know it's very very different sparring or hitting bags

to actually getting in the ring and doing it for a living and all and uh there's this thing with tennis it doesn't matter what the score is if you're on the court um you can win there's no time limit that you are always in control of your own shit but but you could put in the most insane 12 weeks of training camp at the ufc that's the most physically demanding thing you've ever done on your body and for any reason the guy pulls out the guy knocks you out you knock the guy out the whole thing could be over even before it starts in one second in two seconds there's like you know not everyone gets backup fighters i mean every i when i have the ufc fighters on i'm always like every one of your fights is the super bowl you don't get any

like your three you know it doesn't matter because this is your super bowl even though if you're the first fight on the on the on the early prelims. It's crazy. Exactly. And the work that goes in to the off-camp and fight camp preparation, you see the amount of work and how hard these athletes push themselves. And then they might make one technical error and they get KO'd in the first minute. And you know how hard they've worked. You know how good they are.

And they made one small tiny error and it's all over it's when it yeah when when a guy when you see these guys like um Hamzat who have had these and there's other guys obviously too but who have these remarkably quick fights and that they're ready to just go they're like they you know and they're in there um when Daniel or whoever's interviewing them afterwards says hey i'm ready to go again dana i always think to myself coming you know from from the fitness background they don't want to waste all they've put in so much work yes and and they it's all is that is that one of the things you think that's going through their mind like oh shit i'm i'm not going to be able to stay peak forever quick get me in next week like totally totally

and and they know they're thinking of all the work that they've just done to get them to there. They almost want to show that off. They want to go three rounds or five rounds because they know they have that capacity to do so. And it's almost somewhat disappointing that it finished in the first two minutes because I've got so much more to express

and to highlight to everyone of like how hard I've worked on this component of my training. So it, I bet they genuinely mean it when they say they want to get back in there, if they've had a quick win and imagine the adrenaline too, just let's go. I can't meet anyone. I want to show you something. Uh, we'll start with something very, very light here. Um, I i the only person i ever saw take off their pants after a max performance effort was a derrick lewis yeah he took off his fight to um cool down his balls i think that's i'm paraphrasing but i think i'm pretty close to verbatim and the other day uh this gentleman andrew hiller we were uh commentating the um rogue

invitational that's a crossfit event that happened in austin this past weekend and uh one of the commentators he commentates from his garage said hey and he's he's recently started doing uh trt testosterone replacement therapy and he said hey i to do heavy grace, the final workout cold. And he didn't tell any of us he was going to do it. And he just put two 25 on the bar. And I want to show you this. And I'd never seen this before, except with, um, with Mr. Lewis. So I think he just finished his 30th rep. I think he's 30.

So he just finished his 30th rep. He just finished his 30th rep of taking 225 pounds off the ground into overhead. And he did it in 508. He did the first, I think, 25 reps in three and a half minutes. And then, of course, hit a wall. But here we go. Watch this behavior here. 508. 508.

31 total reps completed. Take your pants off, buddy. Take your pants off. Whoa, whoa, whoa. What is he doing? Oh, my God. Your dick is huge. And the real show begins.

Why? Now, is your YouTube on, by the the way i'm getting a slight echo is there another do you have two windows open gavin no okay um i've worked out so hard to where the music is overstimulating me and i have to turn the music off right away or um i i'm starting to tingle in my head or some weird shit. I'm having some weird physiological effects, but I've never been like, hey, I have to take my pants off. But I clearly recognize that there's something going on. Do you have any explanation for this?

Have you ever seen guys do that, just want to start just taking their clothes off? Definitely taking shirts off. Not so much pants because we train with males and females at the ufc so i'm imagining they even in that moment they understand that might not be appropriate um but i definitely think it's probably to do with something along the lines of the central nervous system just being fried and they're like ah it's like a that whole fight or flight response

and they don't know what to do and so that's just that cooling mechanism to take the pants off but uh yeah thankfully we haven't had to deal with that at the gym at the UFC performance institute and you have to imagine that Derek's uh core temp must skyrocket for sure very quickly as well and that was a pretty pretty tough tough uh bout for him as well so yeah he would have been overheating for sure i wonder if it's some sort of um like evolutionary mechanism like i mean i'm grasping at straws straws here but like hey you can't let the testicles get so hot because it starts killing the sperm, or like if your genitalia do, I mean, you have more sweat glands down there, at least it seems like that, like when we work out, it seems like it's your armpits, my chest, and, you know,

around my cock and balls, and my anus that are just dumping. Well, that's what they say when you're in the ocean, when it's, there's a concern for hypothermia. The armpits, the head, and the groin region is what you've got to keep the warmest. And as soon as that gets cold, that's when hypothermia kicks in. So you're probably onto something there. Wow. Armpits, groin. And head. Head.

Yeah. Yeah, my kids recently – my kids just recently started surfing, and one of the guys was out there wearing a hood the other day, and he said the difference is unreal. Oh, for sure. It's like a bad ice cream headache when you're surfing without that hoodie in the cold water. It's a big, big difference. I certainly felt a difference when I lost my hair. Where were you born, Gavin? Western Australia.

And what year were you born gavin western australia and uh what year were you born 1979 1979 and and you uh did you get into uh sports early as a child love sports and still love it to this day i think i played uh most things that Australia had to offer. So tended to play on field sports a lot more than martial arts. But throughout that whole time, there was martial arts involved. But I certainly am better prepared mentally for team sports. I like that environment much better than I'm too hard on myself for solo sports. So it's better that I work with teams. It's better for me mentally.

Explain that to me because we see that in CrossFit too. There's an individual competition, and then we see guys get a little bit burnt. Well, my words, but they get a little burnt out, and then they switch to team, to a four-man team. What's the difference? What do you mean that you're too hard on yourself for individual? I mean, I think a lot of athletes, it's what gets you to the successful point in the first place, right? You're a driven human. You want perfection a lot of the time as well, which is often unachievable.

So we tend to force ourselves to be better and better all the time. Now, that's obviously a great thing to a point. At some point, that's going to start damaging you because of that. I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with the Chimp Paradox book, but it's a great book talking about the mindset of all humans and how we've got a chimp brain, which is our emotional brain, and that's faster to react than our logical human brain all the time. Everyone's the same. And so we get this chimp yapping away at us, telling us all the bad and negative things about ourselves, almost like a survival in a sense.

You're not going to be able to do that. You shouldn't do that, blah, blah, blah. And it's 20 seconds faster to react than your human logical brain. So if you give it time, you let it exercise its mindset, then the human kicks in and says, well, actually, if you look at the facts, I've been training this way, this way, this way, I am capable of doing it. And so that's the challenge of our mindset. That's the one. Perfect. And so I found that to be a really helpful book. And what it also helped me understand was as athletes we're driven to be better than we were yesterday that's fantastic but at some point that chimp overtakes our human logical brain and when you're around others they might provide you with that motivation

that feedback that you're actually on the right track and you're doing well and you almost feel like it's now not about me so I can't be as hard on myself we've got other input stimulators to to push ourselves forward and um that's why team sports work so well you're in it together and if you lose you can kind of do that as a group and talk about it with each other if you're a solo athlete and you lose, the chimp goes crazy. And it's a horrific place to be. You're describing a phenomenon that's, unfortunately, because we have people who haven't created space in their brain for that 20 seconds. It's interesting.

I've never heard a time domain put on that but i communicate with people often to where they think they're communicating with me but they're actually reacting to i say something they have an emotion and then when they communicate back to me they're they're actually communicating back to what their emotion said to them but they think they're communicating to me and it causes a dissonance in their um the conversation basically stops i i don't mean to be harsh but a very common place you see that if you're around a lot of women will be that week before they go through menopause you'll see that oh i can't follow this conversation because they're reacting emotionally to something i said and now i'm i'm i'm lost and we kind of take stabs in the dark. If we're not aware of that,

we take stabs in the dark to try to communicate with those people. And so people don't even know they're doing that, right? Oh, absolutely. That's the emotion kicking in. What's another great example of that? Road rage. Someone pulls in front of you, reaction is you idiot. But they don't actually probably know that they've done that. A lot of the time, it's not a deliberate ploy. They've just not paid attention for that second. And just through weight of numbers, we've just happened to run into that person at that particular time. And it's not like they went, there's that person in the silver car, let's cut them off. They're not thinking like that, but we think they are because that's our chimp talking to us. Yeah, and you get in that echo chamber with yourself,

bouncing back and forth. Absolutely, and that's that chimp the whole time. So you'll never lose that. We all have that. But the challenge, as this book goes into great detail of coming up with, is working out management, how to manage that. So one of the funnest ways I've found is you've got to give that chimp a name because we often associate those thoughts in our head as us.

It's us talking, but it's not us. It's our emotions. And so mine's called Steven with a V and it's close to seven, but it's not. So I just want to clear that up. It's Steven. You can change his name. I wouldn't be offended. And so whenever Stephen starts talking to me, I'll talk to me like it's another person. Now, it sounds a bit crazy, but at the same time, it's disassociating you from your emotions. And therefore, you're actually a bit kinder to yourself because, you know, your human logical brain is not being that asshole, basically. I often will tell people and and tell myself those are not my thoughts those are not my emotions but i am 100 responsible for them still great way to put it yeah i am i'm responsible for it so that's not fair it's irrelevant yeah it is what it is. It's the mechanism that we are as humans.

It's a mechanism, but we can manage it. And I think that's really important to know that we need to disassociate from it, but we also need to be aware that it's still us acting upon it. So we need to make sure we manage what we act upon, basically, and how we act upon it. It's interesting you bring up these speeds. Let me throw this out there and ask you what you think about this part of the brain. So there's this logical part of the brain where I could give you instructions and tell you how to come to my house, right? And you could logically think, okay, I turn here, right? And you can remember it. And let's say that's the slowest part of the brain. And then there's the emotional part that can just come up and we

don't even see where it comes up from, right? Like you were saying, it comes up. I don't want to be angry when someone cuts me off, but for some reason it just comes out of the well and can take over my being. And that's a really fast one. And you have to be kind of super alert to see that happen, right? Hyper-focused and sort of what we call space or stillness or a meditative state to witness it what about this other part of the brain and i don't even know if it is part of the brain where you learn that learns how to swim or it learns how to ride a bike where you can't even teach that part of the brain with words or with emotions it has to be it is so fast this one yes and it is yeah you're right seven it's it's the fastest like if you trip it's the one that catches you

from falling but it's also the one that's so hard to manipulate as we all remember when we learned how to ride a bike it's like dude i'm telling you to ride this bike and it's like bro and if the other two are on if the emotional one's on it'll wreak havoc on that on that one that learns how to move or if the if the talking one's on i mean you can't be like okay lean right it's too slow exactly the way that this book describes it is that's our computer so the computer is actually the first thing to react because they're learned whether it's techniques or behaviors we do that autonomously like we we do that as an automatic response we're not even thinking like you say the thing with that is think of a computer you get viruses in the computer so that he calls them gremlins and those

gremlins can build up over time so So that creates a different psychology in that computer so that your reaction does actually change based on repeated patterns of poor behavior. So let's look at a perfect scenario. Your computer in a road rage incident, over time knows that no one's trying to do this to you deliberately. So that's how you react.

But over time, maybe you grew up in LA and there's a heap of crazy drivers on the road. And over time, you're actually like, I'm pretty sure these guys are doing this deliberately to me. Every morning, every morning I'm driving to work, this idiot cut me off. That's your emotion that starts putting a gremlin into your computer for you to react that way.

And then you've now got to have a conversation with your human logical brain, which is the slowest out of all three, to go, well, actually, remember how this happened. And then you've got to go about trying to change that way. And then you've now got to have a conversation with your human logical brain, which is the slowest out of all three to go, well, actually remember how this happened. And then you've got to go about trying to change that behavior. So there's, they're kind of like autopilots is another term that he uses in the book. Autopilots are the things that I use that to people who I see people all around me on autopilot. Yeah. In this way, it's like, this is just what we do right now. That could be good or bad. So you're saying it like they're on autopilot. Sometimes it's not

the best thing, right? Sometimes it is a good thing, but that's all built into the computer and all things we can manage and change depending on what you want to happen. I call those programs for people who use pc spyware and there are behaviors that create that too so like lying lying will really bog down your spyware every time you lie it creates a program in the background that dishonesty will create spyware that that's why it's not good to be dishonest not because for all the things that people think and same with stealing it's not like who cares if you steal. But the problem is it bogs down your computer.

Lying, dishonesty, stealing, these things create spyware that require you to sort of defend a position and inhibit your ability to be present. Yeah. And like you say, it becomes a spiral too. If you lie about something, that's going to create another place in your life where you're probably going to have to lie about that too so that you keep that initial lie truthful. You know what I mean? And then it just – your life becomes all these stories, made-up stories instead of the facts. So it's a dangerous game, I imagine, to get into. get into when when you so you so you're born in Western Australia and you start do you remember why you got into sports and what your earliest sports were my dad's fairly sporty as well so he was always a big um not a driving force he just did it so you know a lot of boys followed their dads through example and so I just saw him playing sport as a kid and I enjoyed it and he often

became my junior coach you know when you're in the local team he would be the coach so he'd get involved quite heavily I just enjoyed the competition and being active I was an active kid there he is well played sir yeah so that was about two years ago during COVID when I managed to get back to Australia and spent some time with him. So that's in the Masters cricket game. And that was a great moment for me. That was the first time we actually played in a team together instead of him just coaching. So he's about 72 there, still going strong. Awesome. Isn't that fantastic? Awesome. Isn't that fantastic? I think one of the greatest gifts a parent could give their child is to maintain their physical health. And then second to that is to maintain – to be financially independent because those are things that weigh on a child, right? You want your parents to be healthy and you want them to be financially independent.

Absolutely. And it's certainly two of the main concerns off the list when they are, right? Right. So now it's just about spending time with them as best as you can. Yeah. And enjoying that. Did you want to be a professional athlete? Absolutely. That's why every strength coach turns to a strength coach, isn't it? Because they didn't quite enjoying it. Yeah. Did you want to be a professional athlete? Absolutely. That's why every strength coach turns to a strength coach, isn't it?

Because they didn't quite make it. Tell me. Tell me. What did you want to play? Australian rules football or cricket in that picture were the two sports that I was pursuing. At the age of about 16, 17, I probably had to make a choice because in Australia, they're not played at the same time, but there's a big crossover of the pre-season of football and the main part of a cricket season. So I chose Australian Rules football, went reasonably well as a kid. And then funnily enough, I spent a lot of time in the gym because I was always getting injured.

And funnily enough, I spent a lot of time in the gym because I was always getting injured. So that's probably where my passion for that started coming from and my understandings of how the gym could help me potentially prevent injury or at least improve performance. So I retired very young because I had a knee operation at 18, I think, and then that led to all sorts of other things. And so I ended up being a strength coach, getting a qualification, being a strength coach back at the same club that I grew up playing for. And that's sort of how I started my strength and conditioning career back in 1998. So it's been a long journey, but yeah, I've sort of, my thing now is it took me a long time to get over that, to be honest, because that's all I ever thought I would do. But now I'm looking at how if I'm training world champion athletes in the gym, well, I want to be the world champion strength and conditioning coach.

So I'm trying to make it almost that's my sport now is I'm around it. But let's be better at everything that we can do as a strength conditioning coach uh it's a it's a um it's a remarkable field that's gone through you know a lot of uh a lot of evolutions yeah a ton of maybe evolutions isn't the right word trends you know we see we see these we see footage of high schools in the U.S. 50 years ago, and they were doing CrossFit. And you see the ropes in the jungle gyms, and you see all the boys look fit, and everyone's seen the black and white footage. And then it went away. And we had kind of the Hulk Hogan, Arnold Schwarzenegger era.

And then Greg Glassman came back and sort of put it all – pieced it all back together again. He defined what fitness is using scientific method. And it's back again. Right. Yeah. But but in but in that time, there was a severe damage done to society somewhere between nutrition, pharma and this lack of understanding, I guess, of what we're capable of with our movement. Or what healthy movement looks like, what healthy training looks like. Yeah. And that's a social media thing as well right like if you if you're trying to sell a product then that's all you're trying to do you don't care if it actually matters so that's where these trends have been uh difficult to deal with when you know that there's a deeper meaning and

deeper uh requirement from the human body than just this one particular method or tool or something that that person is selling. It goes so much deeper than that. And yet people are making a hell of a lot of money from selling these products to people that think it's going to change their world instantaneously when I think all of us probably know it just takes consistency and a little bit of hard work and sweat and discipline and you'll get there. It's not easy. It's not supposed to be

a one-hit-wonder solution. So it's now about we'll work out what works for you. So if someone's not into CrossFit, that's okay, but what's your thing? If you are into CrossFit, that's also okay. Make sure you get after it. It's about finding what works for you because we're all such different individuals. There is no one solution for the entire population, yet some people still come across like there is. And there just simply isn't. Our psychology works too different for that to happen. And there just simply isn't.

Our psychology works too different for that to happen. We've reached a point where, to kind of push back on what you were saying, I don't know if it justifies it, but we've reached a point to like if you move, it's good. I mean, we've reached such high decrepitude with society, at least in the United States, that even these fads or these things that anyone's trying to like the thigh master is better than what half the people are doing these days. Right. Right. I mean, if at least that those people are moving now. You know, I was talking to someone about this the other day and it's you're exactly right. The hard thing for me sometimes is that my life has revolved around working with people trying to get fit through my online business. So I'm helping people train all the time or I'm at somewhere like the UFC or around athletes. So that's pretty much majority of what I see. But you're exactly right.

When you look at the statistics, that's actually far away from the norm. And I'm sure that's quite similar in CrossFit circles as well people are very community orientated they're there for each other and that's what you see but that's probably not the norm either it's almost like that's this small percentage of people that are trying to keep themselves healthy and looking at longevity and pushing themselves to be better than they were yesterday and you surround yourself with that enough, you think that's actually what happens in every household. One of the things that's been really interesting for me as an Australian coming to America

is, you mentioned, the big pharma component. And that's blown my mind. What was one of the athletes said? Mate, we're born medicated here. It's phenomenal. Yeah, it's been a new thing for me. I want to show you something. If I can find it here.

This right here. Sorry, Caleb, I didn't send this to you. This blew me away. I'm so touched by this. I'm so touched by this kid, Jake Paul. I'm not a big, I don't do a lot of scrolling on social media. I'm not really up to speed on pop culture.

He entered the fight game, and so he popped on my radar. It's kind of the only thing I – it's the only TV I watch. I watch fighting. I follow the UFC closely. I try to follow boxing, but it's hard enough just following the UFC full time. I want you to check out what he said. This is a young man. I'll play it. Here we go.

Pharma companies who basically sell billions, hundreds of billions of dollars worth of medication to people. If the medication actually worked, then they wouldn't have any more clients. So they're just trying to get these people more sick. And this type of corruption happens with hundred billion dollar organizations because like i said it's hundreds of billions of dollars on the line and greediness never stops man you know these people always want

more and more and more the big pharma company i'm just blown away that a young man and his position. Like that. I mean, like if I was, if I was indifferent about him now, I'm in love with him. Like, good job,

buddy. Like you, you're really using your platform. Yeah. But, um, it is, it is a different system for sure.

And especially when you spend some time around the world in other places, it's quite fascinating that that's so prominent, I guess, in the way that solutions are pushed. I've been speaking to friends about it and they'll get scripts for things that can last them an insane amount of time for repeats that they just needed for, you know, maybe one week. And they get over prescribed for long periods of time. So that almost like they're trying to get them hooked on it. It's fascinating. I was shooting this movie in Kenya. And I remember, for some reason, I knew the GDP of Kenya. And I can't remember what it was. But then I was flying back home, and I was listening to the radio or something, and I heard someone say how much money the United States spends on sleeping pills every year. And it was like 10x the GDP of the entire country what the US was spending on sleeping pills.

I was like, what the fuck is going on? Wow, mind-blowing. And the fact that that doesn't even actually help you sleep it just kind of knocks you out if you've read that um why we sleep by matthew walker he's like that's that's probably the worst thing you could do because you're not actually sleeping per se you're just getting knocked out so you end up taking more and more and there goes your cycle. It's crazy. I honestly wanted instead of when the so-called COVID pandemic happened, I thought that the best thing that they could do would be to buy assault bikes for everyone in the United States and just leave them in the parking lot at Walmarts and let people go. Every human being gets one.

And I did the math and it became financially more feasible unbelievable yeah there you go just your free assault bike provided to you by you know your government and how many of those assault bikes would have ended up being like clothes dryers i'd be okay as long as they wrote them and let the fan close the dryer. Hey, right. You bring up a good point, but it would be more just to clear my conscious that we actually gave you the real solution. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I'm definitely on your side with it. I think it's a great idea. And maybe how many people, as many people probably that it turns into a clothes dryer, it also potentially changes their life and they get addicted to exercise,

you know? Yeah. Um, when, when you get this injury and you have to, um, leave sport, was that, um, easy for you or was that very difficult for you? Was that what, what happened in your life in between your ears at that point? was that very difficult for you? What happened in your life in between your years at that point? It took years, to be honest. I was lost. And my journey into strength and conditioning has been really unusual, which I now like. But at the time, I wasn't too sure that was okay or not. But I ended up working in a regular gym. It was a great community gym, lots of members, maybe 1,500 members. I had my own personal training business out of there

as I was doing strength and conditioning for the football team. And then after about five years of doing that, I needed a change. So I went to university at a university called WAPA, which is the West Australian Academy of Performing Arts. And that's where Hugh Jackman went for his acting. But they also do other degrees. So for me, I did broadcasting in radio and television, ended up being a television presenter in Australia for the next 10 years alongside of my personal training business, that gym that I worked at. What did you present? What was your TV show for those 10 years, Gavin?

So we did ones around mining and resources, which was a big deal in Western Australia. That's what keeps our, I guess, commerce rolling. So I did one called Our Town as well, which was more of a lifestyle-based program. And yeah, it was basically working with this producer who came up with these ideas and then we would go out on the road around Western Australia and Australia to present these programs on lifestyle and mining

or whatever he happened to do. So that was great. As soon as I graduated, I hooked up with him and we were able to work for the next sort of 10 years throughout Australia on that. And somewhere, did your goals to be a professional athlete? And when you say,

sorry, when you say Australian football, I'm not sure what that is. Is that like American football with just slightly different rules? Do you guys wear pad? No. What is it? Australian rules football is a fantastic game. It's not rugby as well. It's only really like it's played around the world, but pretty

much Australia is the only one that does it professionally. And it's a large ground. You can run forward, backwards, sideways. Doesn't matter. You kick the ball. If I was to kick the ball to you and you, what we call market, then we're not allowed to touch you. You've just got to stand there and then you can kick or handball. If you kick it through the big sticks at six points, if you kick it through the little ones on the side, it's one point. Look it up on YouTube, biggest hits in the AFL. It's awesome. And can you pass? Yeah, absolutely. So you can pass with a handball, what we call a handball, the ball's held in your hand and you punch it to your –

if I did that to you and you got the ball, we can then tackle you. But if I kicked it to you and you marked it, I can't tackle you. So it's a beautiful rule. Can you throw it overhand? No, you can't throw the ball. Okay, okay. And you have to punch it uh you can kick or punch it they're the two ways that you can move it but you can move that ball all around different angles

um so you know in nfl how sometimes it's the last play of the game and they throw it backwards like yeah yeah yeah you can do that anytime so i could have someone in your end zone we'd usually line up the whole way across the the field and then um yeah it's so it's so hard to explain i'd have to sit down with you and watch it because there's are there downs are there downs how do you switch balls no you just take it from the guys you got to take it from that guys. You got to take it from them. And it's free-flowing. So the guys in the midfield will generally run at high speed between, I'll try and think of it in miles, but it's between 13 and 15 kilometers a game. So it's a pretty, maybe, what's that, 9, 10 miles a game?

So fitness is a premium. You have to be big, but you also have to be able to run your ass off they're they're they're bigger they're bigger versions of soccer players absolutely yeah so there's a lot of contact in the game so part of the big part of the game is tackling big part of the game is running um contests so if there's a free floating ball i could run straight into you if the ball's nearest and try and hit you off the ball and then pick the ball up and give it to my opponent. So yeah. Are pads stupid?

Has the NFL lost? Are pads stupid? Or do they, is it honestly, let's put it. This is a conversation that pops up every few months when a bunch of guys get together and they start talking about the, even the Americans,

I think are starting to figure it out that the Australians haveians have it right pads actually cause injury right well when when you've got a helmet on and coaches tell you to use that helmet to tackle people yeah it's probably pretty stupid like if you didn't have that helmet on would you use your head to tackle someone of course you wouldn't and and those really fast parts of the brain that we talked about before won't let you either, right? They're like, you don't have a helmet on, dumbass. You don't start spearing people without a helmet. No. Look at rugby for a great example. Rugby have got fantastic tackling techniques. They watch the hips, they see which way the hips move, and then they drive their shoulder into the side of it and i mean i was watching a presentation many years ago about rugby league very similar to

rugby union um and the strength coach was saying that every impact every tackle head on is the equivalent of um like a 60 mile per hour car crash and they do multiple ones of that now now let's let's put a helmet on and do the same thing and use your head to tackle like it's hey it's the sport right it is the sport but i i think you're basically giving people a hammer out there you might as well just hey do you want a helmet or a hammer yeah you get to choose pretty much pretty much. And I don't know much about the strength and conditioning side of NFL, but I'd want to hope they're doing a lot of neck-based strength to protect that as well. Is the Performance Institute that the UFC has built in Las Vegas,

where would you rank that in terms of performance institutes worldwide? Are there other performance, like Olympic facilities and things like that in these other countries? Are they just at the top of the game? Yeah, in many ways they are. Look, there's plenty of facilities

that have great technology, fantastic equipment. I think that's all well and good, but how do you utilise that to then program and prescribe for your athletes? And I think that's what the UFC Performance Institute does really, really well. We've got the technology, we have the equipment,

but we also utilise that to our best capacity to try and help the athletes improve. And ultimately, that's what it's there for, right, is to help improve the athlete, get better at those one percenters that might help underpin what they do for a sport and a living. So, yeah. Let me come at you hard here and say, is any of it a marketing gimmick, the Institute?

I think with the UFC, there has to be. But the thing, I think a lot of it like let's say for example we've got squat racks and our squat racks have lights through them we're not using that for anything except to to highlight what a cool gym this is and it looks awesome right but we're not using that for anything regarding athlete performance. But it looks cool as hell. I think things like that have to be because we obviously want to highlight the facility. And if we bring those things in, it looks great on social media. And therefore, there's more attention brought to what we're actually providing for these athletes.

Because a lot of people don't really care about if we're using, we've got software from our force plates that go up and they're behind the mirror you know it looks awesome but it's also really useful and interactive so we use that daily um so in that case it's good but not everyone cares about that but if it looks pretty and they don't understand strength and conditioning then that's a great sell because from a fan's perspective the performance Institute is kind of like this mysterious, magical place. Right. Like we only we see it on Embedded. And, you know, you have one guy walking through there who's the star of the piece. But then there's other famous fighters everywhere, you know, getting getting their groove on.

Yes. It looks like Disneyland for. Yeah, it looks like disneyland for yeah it looks like disneyland for uh ufc fighters and i think it is to be honest that that's not a self like it really is a fantastic place and we utilize the things that we have in there to their optimum and ultimately if you bring it back and you strip all of the um the fanfare back we are there to help improve and accelerate the evolution of mixed martial arts particularly in what we term non-technical training so non-technical training anything that relates to making the athlete better

that's not their sport that's why we're there and i think we do a damn good job of it and I think we use the technology and the the equipment that we have in this facility to its optimum to try and drive this sport forward and so basically that that isn't bullshit that's that's what we do and we do it well every day and um I think that's really exciting because MMA obviously is a very young sport. Maybe this year, I think the UFC, or next year, sorry, the UFC is going to have its 30th year anniversary. So it's only been around for 30 years. Now, when you compare that to things like football, NFL football, soccer, cricket, all these sports that have been around for a long, long time,

got a lot of research on them, MMA, we're literally been open for five years at the performance institute like crazy right and that's all the data the the actual scientific data that we have is five years at a time and compare that to every other sport where we're new we're real new and it sounds like i've never heard a single athlete say anything but positive stuff about, you know, even the angriest athletes who complain about everything. They still they still throw mass accolades at the Performance Institute. Have you got have you guys outgrown that? What's it like there?

Is it is it does it get crowded there? I mean, I think we've had Al Jermaine on the show a handful of times, and he basically lives there, right? I get the impression he spends a lot of time there. Yeah, Al Jermaine's there. He utilizes the services, especially when he's in town, because obviously I think his other home's back sort of near New York. And so his other home is around Vegas, so we get to see Al Jermaine a lot. And he uses the services.

And the thing with someone like well maybe I won't use Aljo as an example but he does use a lot of our services but say an athlete comes in they can hand pick what they want to use so if you had your team from Florida come in and there's just you your coach your wrestling partner you can book upstairs on the mats and that's where you do your training as well so you can do your MMA training there you don't have to go to a rival club that's in vegas you can spend time with your people and then maybe you come downstairs book in a strength and conditioning session the afternoon you use the recovery services and then book in with the pt staff has your weight cut going make sure you check in with the nutrition staff and they'll help you

guide you through your weight cut with all the meals provided for you as well because if you're a UFC rostered fighter all of that is free it's unbelievable yeah it sounds unbelievable um so do you still do you still take on individual clients do you still have um the Gavin Pratt individual programming can people still contact you and get individual programming from you absolutely I've run um my online business at the moment. It's called GCP Fitness. So Gavin Craig Pratt's my name. So GCP Fitness online programs, basically the way that's worked for about the last 10, 11 years is people will send me their gym, a video of their gym equipment, and then I'll write a customized program to suit them based on how many times a week they want to train, for how long, what their targets

are, and then with the equipment that they have as well. So that's kind of like my little side project. There's my wife there. She's a dietician as well. So it's kind of like all-encompassing. It's about to get a renovation because I haven't looked at updating this website for about eight years. I've been too busy to do so but now's the time i think boys i've gotta i've gotta step it up a little bit

but uh yeah that's basically my side project as well are you when you when you are you are the director of strength and conditioning for the UFC, God, that's so cool. It's so cool, yeah. It's so cool, dude. It's so cool. Your mom and dad must be so proud. What a cool place you've landed. Do you still do hands-on, or are you stuck in an office shuffling papers around and dealing with people fighting and not getting along? Or do you actually still get to train athletes?

Very, very busy. Train every day. Yeah. So this is actually the video that's up now. That's at the UFC in Shanghai. And so I spent three years there. And it's more like probably your college gym in America. It's a lot more spaced out because we have an academy based program there so we might have

between 30 and 40 athletes there at one time it incorporates guys like the Leach or UFC fighters who maybe want to visit there so Leach was just doing his camp there he wasn't based in Shanghai he was based in another city Beijing but we do have UFC fighters in that academy so fighters such as Shailan, Oruchilang, Mahasharta they're graduates of the academy Alatang Hailey they're all graduates of the academy that are now in the UFC and now basically got their second contracts in the UFC so we're trying to produce more fighters from China. Unfortunately, COVID has been an absolute nightmare over there, probably affected more there than any other country,

and it's still going. But that is a- It is still going there? It's still going there? They have all sorts of protocols in place that are still just slowing them down? Mind-blowing. They are testing COVID every day every single day disney disneyland got shut down with people in it two days ago i believe with people in it yeah i've seen i've seen video of that before like when

someone tests positive at an airport then they shut the whole airport down and everyone's scrambling for the doors and they they're like it'suh. It's brutal. Yeah. It's been really difficult. I was stuck there for two years while my wife was stuck in Australia. And at the time, they were two of the worst countries to get in and out of. So we sort of saw each other for a couple of weeks across those two years. And every time I traveled to see her, I'd have to do two weeks quarantine in Australia, two weeks quarantine back in China. So that's a month of quarantine. And then I'd only get like four weeks with her because I got managed.

UFC were great to me and managed to give me like two months off before that was in quarantine. So we did that a number of times for two years. So thankfully, now she's here. It was crazy. And do you plan on staying in the States? Are you home now? Is this home? Yeah. Yeah, it was crazy. And do you plan on staying in the States? Are you home now? Is this home? Yeah. Yeah, it is home. I mean,

we're about a week or two away from having our first kid, which is really exciting. Congratulations. He's going to be an American. So he's going to jump on that. I'm sorry about that, but everything else, congratulations. It's a great, it's a great country. It's a great country. Yeah. It's been good, man. We've felt like we've been welcomed with open arms here. And the job that I have is not contract for the first time in many, many years.

Obviously, what we do is a lot of contract-based work. So I don't have a contract. It's just ongoing. So that's a really nice place to be. You talked about the difficulty of separating sort of my words, not yours, giving up your dream to be a professional athlete. And that did it ever snap completely?

Did you ever, did you ever feel a moment where you able to, I guess, I guess you answer that question. You didn't let it go. You parlayed it now to, you want to be the best strength and conditioning coach in the world. Yeah.

I think there was definitely time probably. I don't know why I remember this age, but around 28, I think I was better. And at that point, the gym that I had been working at, I became a manager and an owner in that gym. And I started to realize that there were some other things, some cool things I could do in my life. I love to travel.

And so I started organizing. Basically, I thought I was going to move to Europe. My dad's English, so I could get a passport back then. And so with a mate, I went to London, bought a caravan, and then just lived in the caravan for four and a half months and surfed around Europe out of a caravan. I think I did a lot of soul searching then and realized that actually this is pretty cool. I know a lot of guys that i grew up playing football with who are still playing football and they would have been in their pre-season again for maybe their 12th year and i was like yeah seven's heaps more fun i might just stick with that actually you're describing guys that i imagine you're describing what i imagine is the nightmare of like being in the minor leagues

you were meeting like in baseball i always think about that you met guys who wanted to be pro and they were trying for 12 years and they're just they're not going to make it but they've given 12 years of their life to it yeah exactly mate and then I was able to do like the picture up there is from the tv show that we were doing so pretty much was a dream right in that point I'm I'm about to go surfing and I'm presenting on a TV show. I'm like, this is pretty cool, actually. I don't think I would have managed to get these opportunities being a subpar elite athlete. You know what I mean? I would have been in the minors for so long. No one's going to put me in front of a camera. So it was kind of cool to be able

to know that I could take whatever direction I wanted in my life at that point and I wasn't hamstrung by pre-seasons and in-seasons and minimal travel restrictions because of media looking at my every move because no one cared so it was kind of cool how did you meet your wife um the football club that I was uh the strength and conditioning coach for she ended up working there about two weeks after i saw her at a bar i saw her at a bar and i was like who that is that she's gorgeous and then two weeks later she was uh working as one of the um staff at the football club i was like well that's fairly fortunate uh at the time so you see this hot girl at a bar then you don't see her for two weeks and she shows up at your work and you're like what the fuck what the fuck's going on here yeah that's crazy even crazier was at the end of that season my brain said to me what are you doing walking

away from this girl because i was actually with someone at the time so i was like all right i'll be i'll be the right i'll be a man and and not do the wrong thing here and then i walked away and my brain just said what what are you doing? Chimp, chimp was talking to me. Maybe it was a positive chimp at that time. And then I didn't see her for four years. And then just before I went to Europe,

two weeks before I went to Europe on that, I'm leaving for Europe trip. She came into the gym that I worked at for, for an event. And we, we hit it off again. And then I was like, did you recognize her? So you saw her, then she worked at your work, didn't see her for four years again and then i was like did you recognize her so you saw her

then she worked at your work didn't see her for four years and then you saw her and you recognized her yeah and she recognized me too so there was there was a few butterfly moments for both of us by the sounds of what we've spoken about and then we went this is back in like 2000s right so i went to europe and we were emailing each other and skyping each other so we basically quartered each other for four and a half months during that time and i think it was one of the best things because how well do you get to know someone having to make conversation and write each other interesting letters and emails and things like that. So we were super tight. And then she took a risk and came over to London for a Contiki tour to meet me. And I was late to the end.

What's that? What's a Contiki? A Contiki is just where you kind of have your trip organized for you. It's a lot of drinking and partying, basically. But you get a day in Rome, go see this, and then we'll catch up and we'll all drink and then go to the next place on a bus. So it's kind of organized. I didn't do that.

I went home. I'd done my time in Europe. I'd run out of money. So I went home. She did her thing because she needed to do it too. But when she flew over, I was going to pick her up from the airport. I'd done a dummy run the night before, got the bus to the airport, come back. It's been a long time, right, guys? I'm waiting for her to come over. So I did a dummy run. night before got the bus to the airport come back it's been a long time right

guys I'm waiting for her to come over so I did a dummy run I was like good okay it's gonna take 20 minutes to get there got up at 5am the next morning for this bus and it never came so I was panicked out of my head about how I'm going to get there and she basically waited for 45 minutes for me to turn up so at the point she's like this is potentially the worst practical joke that i've ever been put through but thankfully she stayed because back then you didn't have your mobile number it wasn't easy to get online we had to go to internet cafes and things like that so she was a brave girl coming over to to find me and we have we had a awesome time for about three days in london and then um i asked her out at this bar this pub and then 10 years later we eloped to london and got

married at this same pub on the day 10 years later so it's pretty pretty cool story um how what do you think how do you make a relationship last that long with someone who's is ambitious as you, I'm guessing you guys spent a lot of time apart. Yeah, no, you're right. We have. And I think it's just having that support. She's been my best supporter the whole time. And, um, obviously it's not normal for someone to be away from their husband or wife for almost two years during that time. Wait, two years? Yeah, while I was in China, like back and forth because of COVID.

She couldn't get into the country because they weren't giving any visas out to anyone except someone who had a work visa. So even a spouse visa was not accepted. So I was working with plenty of guys who had their work visa so even a spouse visa was not accepted so i was working with plenty of guys who had their wife and their baby daughter back home okay so i want to go back a second so this is fucking nuts it's not i want to hear one one real quick thing here jump forward before we go back to this um how did you get the job at the PI in Shanghai? And why is the PI in Shanghai three times the size of the one in Vegas? Two non-related questions, but I'm ready.

Okay. I'll try and group it in together. You're a star. Do it. You can do it. You spend a lot of time in front of the camera. Make it like I asked one smart question. Dot points. All right.

One smart answer for the one smart question. Basically, we got an email randomly out of the blue for me to work in China six years ago, maybe seven years ago. My wife was the first person to say, we have to go. We've got to do it. So I stopped my business on the Gold Coast. We went to China, worked for American companies. Sorry. What was the email and how did they find you? Sorry. sorry, got to do it. What was the email? How did they find you? Why did you stand out to these people? Well, they asked a friend of mine who is working in professional sport, had just got his first job in Australian rules football, which was his dream. He'd done their course, you know, XO's, the American company, they do an online course. So he'd done this course. They recognized he was a talent they reached out

to him said look we've got contracts in china would you like to work for us and he said no i've just got a job with afl australian rules football professionally but i know a guy and so that's i didn't even go for this job i just got an email saying would you like to move to china work for exos working with shang athletes. I said, yes. So we spent three years there working with that contract. It was a great time, great city. Then when that contract ran out because we worked for the national games, the national games are the largest competition,

sporting competition outside of the Olympics. It's got all provinces of China competing against each other, really big deal every four years. So we got that competition done. Now I needed a job. The next competition was the Olympics, and China wanted to start developing Olympic-based surfing. So I worked for the surfing team trying to improve that. Now this surfing team was based on a river wave in a place

called Hangzhou. So it's called the Silver Dragon event. And that would have been our home break, so to speak. So we'd tried to discover waves on the islands around China, found some amazing waves, and then funding fell through at the same time that the UFC Performance Institute was getting built. So I went for that job because the surfing didn't look like it was going to work out. Got the job at the UFC Performance Institute. That place is three times as big as the Vegas one because of the academy program. We need more staff, more athletes, more space.

And the idea was that that was also going to be a place to develop UFC's presence in China. So they were going to have fights in-house. presence in China. So we have, they were going to have fights in house. We had a spot where you could drop the cage down with the light showing on it and a full fanfare, like steps that would look down on this octagon. And the whole point was to drop it in there and have fights from people around

the world come in to the actual facility and have competitions there. COVID fucked it up, but it's all still there. And we're, we're waiting for it to all kick off again. How did I go? Fucking tan. You fucked it up, but it's all still there and we're waiting for it to all kick off again. How did I go? You're fucking 10. You killed it. That was an ass question. You killed it. You made me seem brilliant. So you were there from the ground up of the building of the PI in China. Yes. I saw it when it was gutted and just getting developed like with nothing in it. In fact, the first three months there, I could look out of our office inside at the gym as it's getting built.

So fresh. And I guess your reputation. You must have had an amazing reputation, but what about your self-confidence? Like, how did you not second guess yourself as you go through i mean you're in china with the with the second largest organized you know outside of the olympics like you said you had done the surfing thing and and then it got parlayed to olympics and then it got surfing and then it got parlayed to ufc the whole time are you ever questioning yourself like am i capable of all this yeah of course of course of course and i think it's like anything if you're going into a competition of any sort

you're always going to guess yourself your chimp's always going to be chattering at you but the human side's got to go back to all think of all the experiences that i've had and the things that i have done right the people i I've helped, the ways I've done that, the lessons I've learned. And you've got to fall back on those things and have that logical conversation with yourself. And don't worry, there's definitely days where I'm like, what the hell am I doing? I'm such an imposter. But I almost feel like some days it's better to feel that way than to be overconfident. Maybe that's something, you know, in Australia, we have the tall poppy syndrome. I'm not sure if you guys have heard of that. Yeah. Very familiar with it. They got it. They're beating you in Canada and Canada and in the, in, in, in the, uh, countries in the North

and Northern Europe, man, what a mess that that is. Yeah. Yeah. So it's humbling, but at the same time, you can be almost take that too far. And I think that's what I love about America is that if someone does something well, or you feel like you need to tell something that like the amount of comments I've had on my mustache since I've been in America, no one had ever told me that in Australia. People are so kind with actually giving compliments or, you know what I mean? I'm like, this is great in Australia. They just bag you out for trying to be different or something like that your mustache is amazing thank you it is really i appreciate it i love it it's all like it's all i got these days mate i can't i can't do anything up top so i've got you're a very beautiful man don't don't kid yourself. Your wife scored. Yeah.

So when you go to China, she comes with you, but somehow you get separated. And when you get separated, the COVID rules, pandemic rules take place and you can't get back together? Yeah. So for the three years I was with Exodus, it was fantastic. Everything was great. And then the surfing one, while I worked that out, she was in Australia, but she could travel back and forth. But I lived in a hotel for eight months. Didn't get paid because the dodgy government stole the money from us. So the whole time I'm stressed out.

And then I go, I'm out. I'm coming back to Australia. And then the UFC, I got that job. She came over with UFC for the first time. So when you said you're out, you never actually got on a plane and went to Australia and then the UFC, I got that job. She came over with UFC for the first. So when you said you're out, you never actually got on a plane and went to Australia. It kind of, they just barely seamlessly touched each other and you made the leap.

Sorry, mate. So, so you were saying you were in the hotel for eight months and you were like, fuck it, I'm out. But you're saying you never got on a plane and went back to Australia at the nick of time. The UFC picked you up. It kind of was like the crossover. I did go back to Australia while they were making the decision on it,

but I was in China when they started recruiting because I remember I thought I was going to be happy with my surfing job. So I just told the recruiters all my friends' names and said, you guys should go for this job at the UFC. I didn't actually apply myself. And it was the recruiter that said, man, you've been super helpful. You should apply for this job. I'm like, yeah, I guess so.

I'll have a go. And then I ended up getting the job, which was fantastic. But I ended up going back to Australia, hanging out with my wife for a while, trying to make the decision whether I go to the UFC. Obviously, that was a no-brainer. I go to the UFC obviously that was a no-brainer and then so we came over to China lived together there for like maybe a year it was perfect and then COVID hit as COVID was hitting we went back to Australia for our well we got married so we got married in London then went back to Australia afterwards to celebrate with

our family. And that was the last time my wife was in China because soon after that, COVID hit China. We stayed in Australia. The UFC said, do not go back to China. There's stuff going on. They brought us to Vegas for a month. COVID hit America while we were here. So they said, go back home. got back to australia and the next

day china shut down completely and so we're stuck in australia for eight months so at least we were together there yeah and then i went back to china for seven months i didn't see her for seven months then the ufc said yeah you can go back that's when i went through all those quarantines so i saw her for two or three weeks then went back to china for another seven months without seeing her and then i said to my boss duncan french i was like mate i don't think i can do this anymore i'm out unless by january i'm. And then literally two days later, the position I am in now, my predecessor, Bo Sandoval, who's a fantastic guy, a fantastic coach, moved to Texas, A&M, and he's there now.

And so Dunk rang me up two days later and said, did you want the director role in Vegas? So were you the director in Shanghai also? A different sort of, the way our system works, I was the S&C manager. So basically the way our system works is Duncan French is our umbrella boss. He's the vice president of performance. Then there's four directors, one for each category. So sports science, nutrition, strength conditioning, and physiotherapy. So there's four directors and that's where i am

now and then underneath that are the managers so there's a manager in las vegas there's a manager in shanghai that was me and then now there's actually more performance institutes looking to be built so if they are going to be built then there'll be a manager of those ones in that place, but the director oversees all of those positions. Incredible. Yeah. Yeah. And now your whole family is now in Vegas. Yes.

My wife, myself, and soon to be little man. Yeah. Wow. Crazy. Yeah. So that what a journey,

what a journey. And what we've always said is, you know, it's, it's like that marshmallow theory is have you seen that video with the kids where they're offered one marshmallow and then the person walks out of the room and say don't eat it and if you don't eat yeah more when i come back in it's the same thing right life's supposed to be hard and then potentially easy or if you pick the

easy way it's going to get harder later so we figured we'll we'll do the hard bit at the start and hopefully it gets easier from here on we'll see we'll see how that theory pans out for us um and and you're and you're ecstatic in your position you love it there i love it it's a great challenge we can be creative which as we're saying before a lot of sports have got history and it's hard to change history because we've always done it this way kind of vibe but because we've always done it this way kind of vibe but we haven't always done it this way in strength and conditioning and mixed martial arts in fact we haven't really done it a way so let's find out what that could potentially be and we can

discover that with our with the technology that we have and with the the sports science that we use we can actually find out for real so it's not bro science works to a point, right? Because that's where great ideas come from, but we then need to prove those things. So that's hopefully what we're going to be trying to do. Use our creative thought and ideas and then back it up with science. And then now we have a really great systematic approach to MMA. You said in another podcast that there is very limited literature on training combat athletes and and that and that makes sense i mean there's a lot of technical literature out there right

and a lot of coaches that teach uh the technique but um but as far as the strength and conditioning it's very limited yeah and i mean it dies with the it dies with the teacher yeah exactly and there's there's stuff out there. But when you compare the amount of, like if you're looking at soccer, research papers on soccer performance, there's hundreds of thousands. And so when you compare the numbers of scientific-backed research evidence literature on mixed martial arts, no no there isn't a great deal when you compare it to other sports and one of the cool things we've managed to put together is the UFC PI journal which is free online we've done volume one and volume two now and volume two takes takes the athlete and or the coach straight from like first day of training all the way through to fight day and every component of

that sports science nutrition snc physical therapy what are the most injuries uh how do we get around them concussion protocols everything so if you're a strength coach or a nutritionist or a physical therapist that's involved in mma or wants to involved in MMA, bang, hit that link, download it now and it's free. And it's about a 530 page booklet. Wow. Yeah. How often are you guys putting those out? Probably every two or three years because we need to, I hope that link works too, by the way, it's been a bit dodgy lately. We're probably two or three years because we need to collate a lot of information on the tests that we do. So let's say we do a counter-movement jump test. That's going to change from year to year as we get more athletes and different types of

athletes on. So we want to give you specific targets for your weight class and gender as to what would be considered elite in your sport. So if you're going to do a counter-movement jump of 50 centimeters, you might be considered world-class in bantamweight. Well, if you're training a person out of your gym at home or in your local area and you happen to have a jump mat or a force plate or something you can get your hands on, you can actually compare your athlete you're working with to the UFC roster and find out what you might need to

work on as an S&C coach. I love it that it's free. That always works out better for everyone. For sure. In the long run. We want to share. One of the things I always say is it's not like we're a team. It's not like we're the Denver Broncos and we can't give the information out to the public because the Seattle Seahawks might see it and use some of our tricks, right? We're just the UFC. We don't have an immediate competition. The UFC is the competition. So we just want better craft from our athletes and we're trying to help them be the best version of themselves so that we continue to have the best UFC or MMA league in the world. There's this tendency of human beings to want to like hoard their information or not give away their stuff for free. And I don't know if you know the

story of CrossFit, but basically Greg Glassman started filming all his level ones and putting them free online. And the people over the hill in Silicon Valley were like, Hey, you better stop doing that. Well, he made the right decision, lowered the barrier of ventures, and his company exploded. Yeah. Yeah. Give it away. Even though everything was free online, people still came to the seminars to hear the same stuff that they already watched the video on. Yeah.

It's like you give a lot, you'll get a lot a lot of the time, right? Yeah. It's kind of the long-term vision instead of the short-term vision. Um, in one of the podcasts I watch you do, um, you mentioned something and I'm not sure if I heard it right, but I'd love to hear you talk about it about explosive. Well, a couple of fascinating things I didn't know that, um, speed wanes significantly quicker than strength. I'd be curious what, if you could talk about that and also tell me where stamina fits in there sort of people's ability to maintain their metabolic capacity

their endurance and then also you said something about explosive movements being important for people who are older i think in regards to maintaining balance and i was like holy shit i need to ask him about that yeah uh okay because there's a lot of debate in crossfit that crossfitters shouldn't be doing snatches and of course we all think it's fucking idiocy like like just lower the weight or just use a pvc but everyone should be warming up and participating in explosive movements yeah i think just on that last point i think like we spoke about with different tools and methods, I think Olympic lifting is fantastic. And it's just whether you've got the capacity to do that.

And like you said, it's what entry point are you coming into that lift? That's just coaching, though. That's just good coaching. That's not the system. That's the individual one-on-one. The coach should be able to understand like, hey, maybe this person can't even put their arm over their head why would you get them snatching it's like let's work on that first and then we'll get them to that point or maybe it's a high pull and it's like they can manage that they just don't need to go overhead but the action is still

explosive let's get them doing that they can do that component of that lift that's just good coaching right it's not the system that's broken um but i just on the elderly a lot a lot of the time they're the muscle fibers that atrophy first so our type 2 muscle fibers type 2x particularly are the ones that will atrophy with age and so that's actually more there's been research done by edith cowan university to highlight that actually olympic based lifting or power based movements steadily progressed into a program are really beneficial to prevent falls because when that's what happens when an old elderly person falls is they've lost that capacity to to react with speed because they don't have

that muscle fiber type anymore it's atrophy so let's maintain that it's not like they're going to um a lot of the time when you do endurance-based cardiovascular training, you will sort of lose those type 2X fibers. It's like an interference effect with that. So it's not like they're going to be doing 21K runs or long-distance runs at that age. So it's actually probably better that they just do, like, power-based training to ensure that those muscle fibers hang in there and they don't actually be too fast so that's the first one um i'm trying to remember the oh yes so decay rates sorry seven yep yep so the decay rates is what you're speaking of the speed dissipates faster than than strength so this is done by a researcher called Isheron.

I think he's got a paper out in like 2018. I'm not very good at remembering those things, but it was just talking about the decay rates of your physiology. So strength, you can pretty much not train strength for around 30 days, give or take, and you'll still manage to maintain that physiological expression of strength. You'll still stay strong. Speed though is anywhere from three to five days, give or take. So if you don't train speed specifically, then it'll dissipate or decay a lot faster than strength would. So if we're

thinking of a fighter that's coming into fight camp, we could probably in the last three to four weeks of their camp not work on maximal strength anymore, but focus more towards the power speed end of the force velocity curve. And that means that they're going to maintain that output and that expression for the fight. They're also going to maintain their strength for the fight. The other thing is if

you're thinking of strength endurance that's a really good point and something we're digging into a lot at the moment because that's huge for our sport if you think of them getting into a grappling exchange and this is often something they've told us they go for get into a grappling exchange for a minute or two then they pop out of it and then they need to start striking and those arms are really heavy and fatigued. So when we look at our energy system testing on the assault bike, we do three tests. We do VO2 max test. Our sports scientist, Roman Foman, is a genius.

Roman Foman? Roman Foman. Russian Roman Foman. He's a crazy Russian scientist. He's a genius with energy system work so um he he does vo2 max test a maximal glycolytic power test and then a maximal alactic power test so he's looking at our three energy systems all on the assault bike also with gas analysis now let's say you do a vo2 max test and at the end of it, your score isn't that good, but your heart rate actually isn't peaking.

It's not up towards that higher threshold. Why would that be? It's because your peripheral or your muscular system has let you down. It's gassed out first. So we're now not looking at a central adaptation or a cardio respiratory issue. We're looking at a musculus issue to be able to buffer that hydrogen, turn it into energy again and keep going and going. So when we prescribe exercises in the gym for the energy system development, we might look at more peripheral adaptations versus central adaptations because that's what that particular fighter needs what what a fascinating distinction what a knucklehead that i didn't think

of that before someone may have the metabolic capacity to go uh for 10 minutes as hard as they can but they only have the uh muscular capacity to go 20 seconds and so you have this so you have this discrepancy yeah yeah so you've got someone that could run really well, but maybe they fall behind on the lifting component of the WOD. Well, maybe that person needs to work more on the peripheral adaptations that they have, so the muscular adaptations within that section of the WOD, that's where they need to focus on, that strength endurance component.

But if someone's running capacity is not strong, then maybe their central adaptations aren't as good. So maybe that's what they need to work on. That could be a good way to put it into your CrossFit training. Even in this most recent event, we saw people racing to do the 30 clean and jerks with 225, and no one gassed out. What happened to all of them was they had no problem mentally grabbing the bar and

bringing it to their shoulders but at some point the the weak link stopped working and people started failing the shoulder to overhead but you could tell they had the gas and they had the strength for the first piece of the movement the explosiveness but it was that other piece that was that they had to wait for it to you know like the video game to get get its energy back up yeah absolutely and i mean we're obviously to, you know, like the video game to get, get its energy back up. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, we're obviously very, um, you know, we're obviously very good at particular movements, like maybe the pulling, you're going to be able to utilize your legs far more than your overhead press. Obviously your overhead press, you're going to be doing a dip and drive. So we're using a component of your legs, but think of like a deadlift versus,

drive so we're using a component of your legs but think of like a deadlift versus versus a squat jump or something like that like you're just accessing more of your body during particular phases of movements and so that's why the clean and jerk is such a difficult one even in olympic sports it's like well the overhead bits where most people fail generally speaking, right? Right. There was a fascinating thing you said. I wonder if I can – if I wrote it down. Why am I not seeing it in my notes? I'm going to have to – oh, no, here it is. This is – I just love this. 77% of fights are won during 6 to 36-second high-intensity outputs somewhere in the five round fight.

Can, for, for, can, for those of us who, who don't follow fighting, can you explain to us, can you draw a picture for us? What is that? Like, give us an example of what that looks like. So if you, if you think of a, uh, a combination of punches and kicks or punches into takedowns, generally speaking, that epoch or that amount of time is going to be between 6 and 36 seconds from the start of it to actually submitting the guy or to knocking the guy out. It's going to be on average between 6 and 36 seconds. And that high intensity output is obviously you're trying to knock them out. You're trying to submit them. So you're going at a higher pace so 77 percent of fights are won in that time frame so what happens from our mindset as a strength and conditioning coach is well wouldn't you want

to try and repeat that over the course of three or five five minute rounds as much as possible do you have the capacity to repeat those six to 36 second high intensity epochs for five five minute rounds if you don't then you're lessening your chances of winning because 77 that's a fairly large number we want to try and get as much of that as we can so that was all in the first journal as well which is obviously free and it looked at ways that people won versus you know ko's and tko's versus submissions what of submissions, all of that's broken down. And it's really great information for anybody in S&C coaches to look at and reverse engineer your sport to program effectively for your athlete. So if you could do that once during the fight, you have a very narrow window of winning.

But if you could do it twice around, do it, recover, do it again. Chances of winning go through the ceiling, you know, and that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to maximize the opportunity for these athletes to win. At the very start, we spoke about how hard they work and then potentially they make one mistake and it's all over in the first minute well obviously we want to think of the other end of that spectrum that is what gives them the most opportunity to win from my perspective I don't teach them how to box I don't teach them how to grapple that's not my job my job is to teach them

how to sustain that skill set for the amount of time that that fight is on as best as they can. I've said to athletes before, I want you to trust how fit and strong you are so that you can go out and express who you are as a person in the fight game. If you want to go out there and tear someone's head off consistently for three five-minute rounds, I want you to know that you can go and do that because if you don't, you won't trust the process and then you won't fight the way that you fight and then you and then you'll beat up on yourself because you're like i should have done this and i should have done that i don't want that for you i

want you to go out there and express everything the best that you can so what the worst thing that can happen the worst thing i can imagine happening in life is being in a fight and running out of oxygen and that's what they're scared of you're spot on seven that's exactly what they say they're so scared of gassing out there's there's like nothing like it and so for me the energy system perspective of our prescriptions is probably a little bit more important than their strength and power in some ways, because that fear of gassing out, if they know that that's not going to happen to them, well, look out, they're going to be able to put on the best show possible. And that's all we want from them. Even if they lose a lot of the

fighters, they're disappointed. But if they had a great showing or a fight of the night, they're kind of like, ah, it's good scrap. That was, that was fun. You know, I was able to put on my, showcase my skills as best as possible. I've interviewed fighters who said that they can see punches coming, but they literally can't tell themselves to put their hands up because they're so gassed out. It's like I'm watching myself beat up, and I'm just helpless. It's like a bad dream, right? Oh, it sounds horrible. helpless. So bad dream, right? Oh, it's, it sounds horrible. And on, on, on that, there's,

there's a lot of neck or concussion protocols we put together. It's just a, it's a got me thinking we've created this neck profile system that we put in. So you've got your flexors, your lateral flexors and your extensors at the back. And what we'll do is we use a valve force frame for that. and your extensors at the back. And what we'll do is we'll use a valve force frame for that. And we'll test the athletes to see what their ratios are. So flexion to extension, flexion to lateral flexion, what are the ratios and what area of their neck strengthening do we need to work on? So if you've got weak flexors and you go into a contest

where you're getting punches in your head, you really want those flexors to be pretty strong, right? So then that becomes our neck prescriptions for that athlete if they've fallen behind on the flexors but the other thing with concussion prevention is actually being able to see those punches coming which is what got me thinking and we use a tv screen and a program called synaptic where we look at hand-eye coordination, reaction times, because if you can see the punch coming, you can then use that newfound strength you have in your neck to brace for it, and that decreases the risk of concussion. Have you seen any of these studies

regarding periphery, where people who live in places where you can see the entire horizon line versus people who were raised in cities and can't see the entire horizon line about how it affects their periphery? I have not seen that. That sounds fascinating. Yeah, it is fascinating. So you live somewhere, let's say like New Mexico or the deserts of even outside of Las Vegas. Supposedly people, especially young people, if you're in an area where you can see the whole horizon line you get significantly different brain development and periphery than people who were like raised in new york city and everything is just you know just up in your shit yeah yeah narrow focus makes makes a lot of sense absolutely um along those lines of what you were saying about

the neck i heard you say something that you can take a punch twice as hard directly on as you can from the side yeah we've we've used um and this is some very preliminary data that we found in shanghai um so we would put mouth guards in with accelerometers when the guys and girls sparred and then we'd look back at the footage and try and mirror up when they got clipped or when they took a punch and then look at the forces that mouth guard produced. And what we were finding was they'd get cracked pretty hard with the jab cross and were still standing and there was no problem. But as soon as they got clipped on a rotational force,

it would either drop them or create at lesser forces it would create more damage than it would as the straight on jab cross so you know for us that sort of got us thinking in terms of concussion prevention and making sure that the rotators of our neck and the lateral flexors of our neck are super super strong and now we've developed that more into actually looking at a testing protocol using that force frame and what we've developed that more into actually looking at a testing protocol using that force frame and what we've found so far in our very maybe last six months of data collection is that a lot of grapplers or wrestlers will have really really strong lateral flexors because a lot of the time that's how they're going to do their takedowns right

they'll go in for the single leg or double leg press the ear up against the middle of the body and then use that head to then um off center the body so that they can then take them down so their their lateral flexors are actually often stronger than our extensors which is unusual the extensors at the back should be about two times as strong as the flexors and then these lateral flexors and the front flexors should be one-to-one. So what we're finding is that these ones are almost two-to-one on the other one against here and against the extensors, which is really, really unusual, but generally only seen in guys who grapple a lot. How do you train that?

Can you train that stuff in the gym? Is that like that thing i always see advertised that they put on your head the iron neck yeah that thing yep so there's an iron neck you can use super bands like just the bands that you'd use for accommodating resistance on bench press and squats and things like that uh there's neck harnesses that you can use attached to cables or weights we've got fairly creative by coming up with a systematic approach where we might use isometrics, then move on to isotonics,

so your concentric, eccentric movements. Then we'll use a term called oscillation drift, which is where you drift into a movement and the muscle will contract and then relax. But it's kind of like a slow version of that. And then we'll move on to just straight up oscillation dynamic, which is where the muscles are just firing on and off.

And you can imagine that's more like a fight where you might go into that contest and you've got to brace your neck and then relax it. Otherwise you'll burn up oxygen. So it's, we got really, really creative with it and it's super fascinating, fascinating area. So yeah,

if you were to use the Swiss ball like that, you could definitely do more like your oscillation drift where you push into the Swiss ball on and off. I know Formula One do it a lot. I'm not sure if that's what this is from. But there you go. So there's those neck rotators. So let's say that was a fighter.

You'd make sure that those rotational muscles in the neck are super strong to ensure that those forces can now actually be taken. But again, remember guys, you've got to be able to see the punch coming. So there's no point having a strong neck. If you don't see the punch coming, you're still getting knocked out. So there's many components to this, right? Are there any fighters you see and you're like, man i wish i could get my hands on this guy like going back to derrick lewis like you're like oh please if he would just just move here for 12 weeks what i could do with that what an amazing stone and you want to craft it there there are and then sometimes i need to pull myself up on it and say well a lot of them are still pretty

damn good would i be able to influence them to the point that it made a positive difference at this time right like ultimately they need to be good fighters to be in the ufc and to be successful in the ufc that's the number one important thing we underpin what that is so there's definitely fighters where i'm like, oh, if I just had you twice a week, I just wonder. I wonder how good you could be in terms of your physical fitness and your strength and things like that. But you might actually make them go backwards. You never know, right? Like this is the thing.

You've got to be egoless about what we do. But I do think it plays a really, really important role in the outcomes of mixed martial artists, but everyone is different. We go back to that thing again. Some people might not actually respond that well to them. They might feel too heavy. They might not be psychologically ready. And that's a big thing that we talk about as well. Someone could squat 250 kilos and on the day, their nerves make them shit the bed and they can't express any of that strength because they're too nervous so what does it matter you know we need to make sure that on the day they're actually emotionally ready their nervous system is ready otherwise that's that they're

prepared they can squat 250 kilos but they're not ready their readiness has suffered because their neural system has fatigued them. And therefore they can't actually express any of those things they worked so hard to get. Does, does, does the PI have a hyperbaric chamber? Yeah, we've got a altitude chamber. Um, we, we don't use it a great deal because you really need extensive periods of time for it to make a difference. Maybe I'm using the wrong word. Talking about – I had an expert – yeah, no, I think I am using it. Hyperbaric is the one where it basically simulates you being underwater, and it pushes oxygen into your body.

And it's like there's just miracle cures everywhere around it now if you look into the research no sorry that's my bad i didn't hear that properly no we they need what they need one of those yeah well you never know it might might be coming up in the future that's out of my uh pay grade i won't be able to do anything i just say that i say that because the word concussion has come up a bunch of times and it's just remarkable and so i had a guest on who is like a foremost expert in the bay area on hyperbaric chambers and then recently i was hanging out with one of my friends whose dad has uh dementia and he's had dementia for the last year and i said hey i saw your dad the other day i go what's going on she goes what do you mean i go he seems better and she said you're never gonna fucking believe this and i said what he goes he's been doing

hyperbaric chambers wow basically i think they can put you under so much pressure gavin that your red blood cells don't even have to start transporting oxygen around the body it just starts free free throwing free flowing throughout the body i need a chamber yeah well i mean those things have all got their place right i mean one of the things that we utilize is photobiomodulation or red light therapy and that's some of the things that we utilize for the improved sleep or mitochondrial density concussion protocols like there's some fantastic opportunities to utilize red light therapy in our facility and i think it might be quite different mechanism to hyperbaric chambers but i think it's if it can help the athlete why not right yeah yeah it it's – there's no medication.

Yeah, bingo. Ticking boxes, yeah. Yeah, you're just sitting in the room. Have you ever worked with the military? I have not, no. Yeah, I'm surprised. I wonder if that's maybe your next chapter. Do you think that you die at the – do you think you die at the PI? Do you feel like you're going to be there for a long time? I don't know, mate. We'll see. I like to experience as much as possible in life. So at the moment, this is where we are. And I don't really think too far ahead, to be honest. I kind

of go with the flow. So at the moment, we're here. We'll see what happens. If the PI opens up around the world, then maybe there's a transfer through one of them. I love seeing different countries, but this role is fantastic for me. I love it. And right now, pretty happy where I am. Do a training program, and the guy who's writing the program is on performance-enhancing drugs, that you should be careful because he's a different kind of human being than you are, and you're not going to get the results and the recovery. Is that something that you have to think of? Like, okay, some of these guys might be on performance-enhancing drugs. Some of these might not be. Is there transparency? Would an athlete ever tell you that hey by the way i'm i'm on i'm doing this or or they can't even risk that and i and i say that with no judgment i don't judge anyone on whatever

they're doing to get to the top like i i'm not i'm not a hater at all um yeah no sure it's a valid question i honestly don't know i i i would like to think that they would because it's got to skew your data right it's if someone comes in there it's got to skew your data you're like wow what the fuck is going on here sure i mean there's so much testing now in the ufc i really think it's like if you look back at old ufc videos like there's some some juicy mcjuicies going on there it's a very very different program to today like you'll see the difference in body types right so i just don't think with the drug testing protocols they have it's not worth the risk you'll lose your career so but in saying that there's

some people willing to take that risk i'm sure but i don't see anyone that i work with personally that's that's that type of person right um for someone who wants to be follow your path and be a strength and conditioning coach and at the at the highest level um for for you it was just you had it seems like you're the kind of guy who just had your head down and grinding, and the universe took care of you. And maybe I'm just projecting onto you because that's the way I feel about my life. I just had my head down and worked hard. Do you have any thoughts for them, for people who want to be professional coaches? Yeah, I do.

For me, you've got to do the hard work. You've got to earn the position. There's so many people that want the sexy job straight away, straight out of college, straight out of university. It's like people have to work for those positions. And there's a reason why you get those jobs. It's not just because of how much you know from theory. It's because you've been able to put that into practice time and time again and make so many mistakes along the way and also work on things like connecting with people. Like if an athlete doesn't believe you because they don't trust you, then it doesn't matter how much you know. You need to be able to prove to that athlete that you care about their journey, care about what you're actually prescribing to them at that time. And that's the right thing for them now. And that all comes with an ability to almost be a chameleon, right? Like you've got to, there's so many different personalities, not just in sport, but just in the world.

And if you can manage to connect with that person somehow, just that one connection, you're going to change your ability to be able to influence their outcomes. And so that takes time. You don't get out of college and have the ability to do that most of the time, unless you're a special person. And even then, you've got no experience behind you. So why would they go for you straight out of college if there's someone that has got that personality experience and also the coaching experience? Well, I know I'm going to go for that person over someone that's just graduated. So get in, do the hard work, do your internships, learn as much as you can, but don't just focus on the theory.

Make sure you embody what our job is about. Make sure you continue to lift and train yourself because there's nothing like telling an athlete that on the seventh rep, this is going to hurt like hell because I did it yesterday. Builds trust again, right? Build that journey for yourself and then you'll find that you're in the position that you should be in at the right time because you've done the hard work to get there. Heidi Karum, this guy is so smart. I don't know about that, but I appreciate the kind words. I think it's just nice to be able to connect with people, right?

You just, to me, that's the main thing. You want people to enjoy your sessions when they come and train with you, but you want them to know that it's the right place for them at that right time. And that's the main thing. Are you good with time? I actually got to go to work. I didn't know how to bring that up. I hate that working class. I hate that. It's okay, Gavin. Hey, I was so excited to have you on. When I stumbled across your account on Instagram, I was like, oh, my goodness. I got to have this guy on.

I really appreciate your time. And I'll definitely stay in touch with you. Thank you, guys. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. Yeah, for sure. Thanks, Gavin. Nice to meet you.

All right. Don't work too hard. And congrats on the kid. Thank you, guys. Appreciate it so much. Thank you. Thanks, Kevin. Nice to meet you. All right. Don't work too hard. And congrats on the kid. Thank you, guys. Appreciate it so much. Thank you. Bye-bye. I could have gone three hours.

That was great. There's so much to say. That was awesome. I've got some kind of chest funk going on. Should I work out today you know what's interesting is so many people i know are sick right now so many people so many so many whole families whole families three close families to me three different states they told me their entire family is sick right now going around over here too are you are you covid positive how often do you test

never oh all right we like we won't we just don't where can you where do you go if you get sick there just staying you're in in that that place where you under that bed where you did the podcast a couple times pretty much it's like oh yeah just quarantine i'm like i have a roommate okay my whole house is down with it like everyone is sick now eric weiss good good dude yeah right how about that how about that clip from uh jake paul oh i saw that that was dope i think i've seen him before but i liked it it was good i um i someone i know is uh his one of his photographers and i'm like dude i

gotta get him on the show i gotta get him on the show be kind of a miracle but it'd be super cool oh it'd be so cool once i saw that he's getting real like that, I'm like, oh shit, here we go. Get him, Jake. Just get Kanye on too. Yeah, Kanye would be wild. Holy shit, it would be wild. I haven't watched any of the podcasts he's doing. I just see the snippets on Instagram.

Yeah, everybody's turning against him. It's crazy. So stupid. Yeah. So stupid to turning against him it's crazy so stupid yeah so stupid to turn against him did you watch the one with patrick david with anthony davis uh after one of our shows here i pulled up a clip because suza told me to and i that guy is fucking i i felt sorry for patrick bet david yeah dude i was like dude just ask him to leave at that point that so what we talked about in the beginning of this podcast is someone who's stock stuck talking to themselves it doesn't even matter what you say they're just talking to themselves that's where that guy's stuck in that 100 it's no wonder why they kicked him out of the

tom brady's team there's no way you can oh they did kick him off how good was he like really good it was pretty good but he just like it's an absolute nutcase soon as soon as i hear someone say disenfranchised or marginalized or they start using any of those words or disproportionately affects, I know that they're stuck in an echo chamber. They use these blanket statements that you could use. Yeah, high urinals disproportionately affect short people. I can't tell you how many times in my life that the urinals are either too low because they're for the kids or they're for the adults and they're too high. Like they disproportionately – I mean – i could say the same thing just say what you mean i just want to hear you just say what you mean and let that the little bit of racism

or sexism seep out of you instead of you hiding behind this fakeness like you care by using these blanket fucking just blanket jargon it's funny because he kept trying to tell patrick that david that he was raised in la and he's like no dude i was born in iran for 10 years yeah because you were grew up in la man you it's okay you don't gotta tell me nothing's like dude you didn't even hear what he said he just kept saying i'm marginalized i'm marginalized i was just like he had a little bit of the jesus uh syndrome going too i heard him say i'm the light i'm the inspiration i'm the like i'm like wow this guy i'm a rock star i want to women urinal. It'd be interesting to make.

I think I've seen some device that a woman can put on her vagina somewhere where she can stand up and pee. It's a sheepy. That's what it's called? A sheepy? Yeah. Female pilots use it when they can't go to the bathroom in the jet. Oh, no shit. Yeah. The military always has the coolest technology we're so smart dude and then it just dribbles down to the general public

eventually uh paper street coffee uh i don't know if this is true but i think you guys should go over there now i heard yes so the coffee's now 20 off god gabe's gonna lose his shirt on this are you sure you're gonna want to do this gabe until thanksgiving you're fucked dude uh let me see uh i i was on a text thread where he's on it oh you're on it too starting today through thanksgiving use the promo code seven and get 20 off your order on the site or seven i think maybe they both work gabe you should make it so they both work. You get 19% of you use 7. You get 20% of you use 7. Seven, thanks for all the great podcasts.

Brandon Waddell. Wow, that's crazy generous, dude. November is Diabetes Awareness Month. My book, Type 1, is a kid's book to help young kids with their new diagnosis, love, and peace. Oh, shit. You sent me that book. It's sitting on my dining room table. It's been sitting there for like eight months. I'll bring it in. Yeah, it's sitting on my dining room table it's been sitting there for like eight months i'll bring it into um yeah it's sitting on my i'll bring it in

and and show it off is that on um uh amazon is it on amazon i didn't even know you you're the one who sent that to me thank you yeah it is on amazon is on Amazon. Type 1 W-O-N? Yep. Oh, yeah. Yeah, there it is. Oh, and it has six five-star reviews already. Shit, congratulations. Dang, everybody's writing books now.

This one's been around for a while. Awesome and informative story for kids and families who struggle with diabetes. A well-written book with information and encouragement for kids and parents of kids diagnosed with diabetes the book explains the diagnosis and treatments in accurate but kid appropriate language excellent work waddell family remember when he had to explain to me how to uh pronunciate his name i would call him brandon waddle i think you're like the better one you're reading reading's not my strong suit oh it was antonio brown not anthony davis sorry bruce my bad uh definitely trying seven instead of seven since you still don't pronounce odd right it's like odd audrey. So easy. Oh, odd.

Oud. Oud. I see more as a woman from Dubai. I'm going to call you Oud. Miss Oud. Oud. Woman. No, thank you, brother. Thank you.

Heidi's new book. I want a piece standing up like my mom. That will be released in two weeks. Oh, hey, not now. Hey. That's a great. That's a great transvestite book. That's a great book. That's a great book. Dick Butter wrote a book too.

He says, I want to shitpost on several shows like my mom. Oh, oh, that's a dig at Heidi. I didn't get that. I saw that meme. I'm so glad. Oh, I didn't get that i saw that meme i'm so glad oh i didn't get that i'm like i don't get it oh that's so good dick can you fucking believe i asked katie to reinstate you on youtube i'm a fucking legend i'm gonna have to have to. These are the important questions. Goodness. That was hard. Let me tell you, I did not want to ask that. That was hard. I don't see anything scheduled for tomorrow, which doesn't, which actually, usually that would stress me out, but I'm kind of relieved. So I think we're going to get Dale Saran back on soon.

I don't know if it's this week or not, but Dale has a suit against the United States government. He represents 900 Coast Guardsmen in their desire to maintain their jobs with the United States Coast Guard but not be forced to take experimental drugs. I think the Coast case is going swimmingly well. I think the case is going swimmingly well. Dale has been on this podcast twice before, and he was recently on the Dark Horse podcast with Brett Weinstein, I think is the name. If you have not seen the movie No Safe Spaces, you must see that movie, No Safe Spaces. safe spaces uh audrey says katie was not having it um i should have asked her for a stairmaster and they're like ten thousand dollars on the site i don't know if it seems a little even i have a little too much pride for that even humble little me i love dale yeah dale's great what a brilliant man what a brilliant man i've noticed he's getting more and more press i have him in my google alerts and at once a week he's popping up

in uh news articles our buddy jorge ventura is doing some pretty amazing stuff too and uh alex stein who i think is coming on in the next week is also doing some pretty crazy stuff he seems to now be a regular on the largest news show in the world uh tucker carlson which is pretty uh cool um i guess that's it unless anyone wants to call and talk seven i can come on the show well thanks uh i just brought a few bags of paper street coffee Sevan promo code doesn't work womp womp oh Sevan does oh seven doesn't work

okay okay sorry I wish oh show's over see you guys tomorrow I will be here at 7am with something or something oh here's what I'm trying to do I'm trying to do. I'm trying to schedule J.R. Howell and Taylor Self to come on the show.

They want to do a reprogramming of the Rogue Invitational. God, I hope they're gentle. Oh, this is what I wanted to show you guys. For those of you camera geeks out there, look at this this i'm getting very nervous about the zello games because we tried something new there i know there's going to be a lot of hiccups it's okay i'm not i'm not it's okay but look at this uh the the guy who runs who's one of our sponsors the the coaching one master of coaching master of coaching that's the um uh the program out of australia right it's a it's a newsletter out of australia master of coaching this guy sent me this uh

let me see if i can find it on my Amazon. I bought it on Amazon. I'm dying to try. Oh shit. I can't even get into my Amazon account anymore from this computer. What's it for? It basically, thank you. Good question.

It's this item and you put it on top of your camera. It plugs into my camera. So like an actual camera or like a phone camera? Yeah. So this camera, this is a really nice Sony camera. I can plug it into the – it sits on top of here. I plug the device into my camera, and then I put my phone here, and I plug my phone into the device.

So it basically connects my phone and my camera together. And my – this part's irrelevant, but the screen on my phone now becomes my viewfinder for my camera. But here's the trippy part. Then I can put a professional mic here, and I can use the streaming services my phone has. So at the Zelos Games, we could all have professional cameras and use our phone to stream it to StreamYard so that everyone could watch it. Yeah. And I have gimbals and everything, and the whole thing could be done just using phones and these $1,500 cameras. I know. It takes like a week to get here.

I ordered it. I don't know if we'll have time to test one out. But if not this year for the Zealous Games, I mean, imagine what you could do. You could roam around anywhere with your camera and just be streaming crazy professional footage. We can do that at Wadapalooza. Yeah, good point, Bruce.

That'd be sick. Audrey, we can do that at wadapalooza yeah good point bruce that'd be sick um audrey seven i need a camera master class i'd pay money for that okay come over today i'll i won't i'll bring your camera come over today i'm going to be at the skate park in scotts valley and uh we can use my kids as the subjects and while they're skating i'll show you you how to be an awesome camera guy. We'll do that when I get back. I just want to know who re-watched Hiller do Heavy Grace because I did, and my HR was up just as much as the first time. What do you think about the title of that video? I got a little nervous about the title of that video. I thought it was dope.

You do? Yeah. It says, um, uh, Steroid User vs. CrossFit's Best. yeah it says um uh steroid user versus crossfit's best okay 31 comments holy shit it's it's it's so funny what we're still figuring out a year into this podcast that we made a sub clip from the do you want know what, how huge of a needle mover Rich Froning is? We made a sub clip of him. And it has,

it's now become our most popular video in the history of the fucking channel. That's hilarious. It's called the champ returns and has 57,000 views. And it's just a little clip from the podcast. I've been putting up sub clips every single day i'm going to be putting them on the sebon podcast sub clip station if you don't subscribe to that make sure you do maybe i can put a link can we put a link to that in the comments now here's the thing i need to get over a thousand subscribers on that guys um i normally uh don't beg for uh subscribers but subscribe and

turn the alerts on because once i get over a thousand i can start trying to monetize that account it's not a lot of money but everything every little bit helps trickling that shit in and it will help us with the algorithm i'm sure whatever that means i just use that word i don't even know what it means the algorithm Gavin Pratt director of strength and conditioning for the UFC yeah he knows his shit rogue invitational shows killed it thank you to Katie and Bill

Bill and Katie maybe I should start doing dear Katie and Bill what do you think sounds better dear Bill and Katie or dear Katie and Bill, Bill and Katie. Maybe I should start doing Dear Katie and Bill. What do you think sounds better? Dear Bill and Katie or Dear Katie and Bill? I think Bill and Katie, technically, if you're going to be grammatically correct. Rich moves Savon's needles. Savon's needles. Savon's needle.

When I click on a comment, it always like flashes. Oh, wait, let me see. Like it flashes. Oh. Mine's been doing me see. Like it flashes. Oh. Mine's been doing that too. It's weird. The only thing that would have made that better is if he had done it live while the event was going on. There's always one of you.

You're like my dad. Oh, this is so good. A little more garlic. Just a little more. It's always one. Never it travis uh the only thing that would be better about vindicate is if they sold a zip up a zip up oh we talked about this caleb disgusting a zip up uh ceo by the, when you come back from wherever you are, I have this for you.

Made by the camera strap guy. Ooh, very nice. Nice, right? Oh, nice. It's got my name on it. How sweet of you. It smells so good. Lucky Camera Straps at Australia. That's cool.

Don't get too excited. He made one for Heidi, too. i thought it was the only one seven add that link to your channels in your landing page like you did with the consulting page add that link in your channels i thought it was on there i'll check oh jay for the um he's talking about for the sub clip station? Yeah. Okay. That's a good idea. All right, guys. Thank you. Maybe I'll see you tonight. Maybe I'll see you tomorrow morning.

Bill and Katie sounds best. I know. I think it does sound better too. Lowercase Bill? You think I should Bill? Bill and Katie? I'll work on it savvy you have any update i know i need to ryan you're absolutely right and actually just ask me about him too that keeps popping up in my head you know what it is why i haven't recontacted them it's for the stupidest fucking reason it's because it's so fucking hard

i feel like those shows were so hard to communicate with them and so it was always like a like i had to be ready to enter that world yeah my style is just say that again i had to like turn my train later on yeah because my style is just to interrupt and and you can't do that with him i i have to like be more disciplined with him i think he's doing well though he's still coaching and everything you can't do that with him. I have to be more disciplined with him. I think he's doing well, though. He's still coaching and everything. Okay, good. He's back in the gym and all that. Have you considered making a Spanish or other language version of your podcast

to pull more subs from the other countries? Hola, amigo. Como esta? If you want to translate for him, do it. I wouldn't even know how to do that. I'll look into it. I wish you could get a russian on all right guys uh we will either way we'll see you soon even though i don't know when bye