The Sevan Podcast - #698 - Andy Holmes, Informed Sport

Episode Date: December 6, 2022

Let's learn more about 3rd party supplement testing and are tainted supplements legit? Support the showPartners:https://cahormones.com/ - CODE "SEVAN" FOR FREE CONSULTATIONhttps://www.paperstcoffee.com/ - THE COFFEE I DRINK!https://asrx.com/collections/the-real... - OUR TSHIRTS... Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Look for new value programs when you shop at Loblaws, in-store and online. Conditions may apply. See in-store for details. In the private chat, we're live. Andy, hi. Hi, how are you doing? Dude, stoked to meet you. Andy, how are you? Good name, good name. Thank you. I owe that to my parents. Why do you say that? Oh, Andy, Andrew.

I've always wanted to go by Andy, but something about it, it didn't stick with me for some reason. Everyone just kept calling me Andrew or Hiller. Hiller. I do like Andy. Like the Toy Story thing where they got on the bottom of the shoe. That's how people remember me. I'm like, think of Toy Story. Easy. Andu. That's how people tie. Yeah, that's how people remember me. I'm like, think of Toy Story. Easy. And that's Andrew. And Andy, that is C. Beaver, Caleb Beaver in the gray sweatshirt in an undisclosed location, part of an equity experiment run by the government.

location, part of an equity experiment run by the U.S. government. Nice. Called the U.S. Military. And Andrew Hiller, shirtless. That's always nice to see in the morning. Just worked out. Great to have you guys on. I'm super excited.

There's a lot to dig into, and I'm just going to jump the gun here to get the audience right on the clickbait and super interested. What was it? What did you make it? What what i make what oh i'm not the title but the question i'm gonna ask and then we'll start backfilling i'm gonna say a couple things really quick we're gonna get into the details but andy comes uh from a company uh that has more experience in this field than any other company that is on the planet today by at least 10 years. The company goes back, its origins go back over 150 years in the medical space. They're located, the parent company is located in 23 countries, 27 countries with 2,300, hold on, 2,300 employees. Andy, Andy, when our beloved athlete friends pop and they respond with, I didn't do it.

It must be tainted supplements. What, how should we react? I know compassionately we should always treat people the way our moms and dads taught us. We should treat people the way we want to be treated. And I try to do that my very best, even to the worst people on the planet. But how what would be the mathematical assessment that we should use when they say when we find out our dear, beloved athletes and friends have popped and they blame their their plastic jar of stuff? No, that's a great question. That's no. Honestly, I think what we should do is obviously. I knew it. I knew it. The smart people never just want to fucking hang it out. Yeah. Yeah. I think give them give them the benefit of the doubt.

Innocent. But uh, you know, maybe what, maybe, maybe what? No, maybe that they, maybe they did find it in a, in a supplement. And the reason why is because, uh, you know, I hate to say this, but they're, they're taking the wrong supplements and they're being stupid. Um, what if it was an NSF certified supplement? Then I would say it was probably very unlikely uh what if it's proven otherwise if it's proven otherwise then and it was an nsf certified supplement then i say i think nsf has got some problems with their testing um but um that would be between that athlete and nsf what is nsf you guys what is nsf andy tell me if I'm wrong, but it's the company that CrossFit recommends you use the products from because they're certified to be clear.

Yeah, well, I don't know if they're certified to be clear. I know they're one of our competitors. Okay. But they have a very large footprint in Major League Baseball., major league baseball uses NSF exclusively. And so with that being said, you know, as far as what they do, as far as their testing and how robust their program is, I would recommend you guys bring someone on there. I'd like to be, you know, a fly on the wall when you talk to them about that.

But what I can tell you is back to the, you know, your question, Siobhan, is that one in 10 non-third-party tested products has a banned substance in it. One of the things that LGC does, yeah, go to Walmart, look at all those, you know, or Target or GNC or wherever. You know, and I can't, yeah. The orange container at Walmart. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I got a funny story about Walmart supplements. But no way. What's interesting is we go throughout the world every, you know, four to five years, every six years, and we'll do we'll pull supplements off the shelves. And what we usually find it, you know, the last one, think was 2017, we did it in Australia and one in 10 supplements usually has a banned substance. And so once it goes through our program, you know, in the robustness of our program that, you know, eliminates to like one in 10,000. And the reason why is it's prevalent, you know, banned substances do show up in supplements. Now, does that mean that athlete didn't cheat? Like I've been an athlete and I know athletes cheat,

but the thing is, is what I can tell you is, you know, back to the stupid remark and it's not, you know, for me being, you know, a smart aleck, it's, it's honestly, if you're being drug tested, you shouldn't be taking any product that hasn't been third party tested. If it's not third party tested, throw it out. What is third party testing mean? Tell me what that means. No, thank you. Third party tested means it's been tested for banned substances. There's only a few labs in the world that can kind of do that kind of testing. And what we're talking about banned substances, guys, is when it comes to things that are on the WADA list.

And what WADA is the World Anti-Doping Agency. They decide what's banned, what's not. You're talking about things like anabolic steroids, SARMs, you know, methamphetamine compounds, diuretics, masking agents, you know, just about anything you can shake a stick at that will make you win a competition. And so that green PDF that I'll always post, it's got everything on there. If you go to WADA.com, there's a PDF with everything that you can shake on there. I post as often as I can. So everyone can see that thing. It looks like this. Yeah. Yep. There you go. There you go. And it's, it's a big deal. Just to go back for a second, Andy, third-party testing is I have a company and regardless of whatever I'm making, I choose someone outside of my organization who's supposed to be non-biased. And I said, Hey, can you look at this and tell me what's in it?

Yes, sir. And the other thing too, is like to keep in mind is you'll have kind of, you know, the supplement industry is a lot of them will put on the label third-party tested or what the heck does that mean? You know, you know, it's like, oh, you had my brother who works at a lab test to see if there's any iron in there or any lead. Like that doesn't mean anything. There's only a few labs that actually, I mean, it's great. You don't have lead in your product, but like, you know, you want to know that it's tested and it's been by a third party, you know, anti-doping lab. And, you know, us, NSF, those were all ISO accredited. And what that means is it's not just us saying that we can test down to these levels to detect these compounds. It's a third party coming in to audit us to say, hey, can they

really do this? Are they just feeding you a line here too? And so, and the reason why it's becoming more and more prevalent. I mean, you know, everybody on this, you know, our group here probably works out and we know what we take. We know why we take it. People are more educated than they've ever been, but they also demand higher quality than they ever have.

People are more educated than they've ever been, but they also demand higher quality than they ever have. And the other thing, too, is, you know, we're in a very legalistic society where, you know, if I'm taking a product and, you know, I fail a drug test and it costs me money, I'm not going to admit to taking anything. I'm going to go get a lawyer. And, you know, the money's involved, you know? So that's, that's the thing that's driving a lot of this too, I believe. So all that said, I have a quick question. You said one out of 10 products have been seen that there's something in there. Something you'll read every, everywhere is that, and I think I've even said it in the past. it's like, if you find a substance in there, let's just say it's a Rad 140 or whatever, Ostrine in a pre-workout, everyone's like, why would they taint it with something more expensive than every other product in there?

Is that kind of insane to think? Or is that because it's been made on the same conveyor belt? Do you have any insight on that? No, that's like, honestly, these are good questions. Like the thing is it's, they're not most of the time, these are good questions. Like, the thing is, it's they're not most of the time, I'd say over 90% of the time, probably over 99% of the time, it's inadvertent contamination. And it's not people like, hey, I know, let's throw a bunch of deck in there and make this supplement awesome. You know, because it because, you know, so, you know, that's, that's a realistic thing, but they wouldn't be in business very long. But what we're looking at most of the time is going to be inadvertent contamination. And you have to keep in mind, we're testing down to parts per billion.

What you're testing, like heavy metals, pesticides, stuff like that, that's GMP testing where it's about parts per million. What's GMP stand for? Good manufacturing practices. Okay. And that, you know, everyone says, you know, those are some of the things that the government has actually said to regulate the supplement industry. Things have to be tested to that degree. We're going above and beyond that. And we're testing about 50,000 times more sensitive than GMP testing. And that's usually what athletes and brands are like, why would you do that? What's that called what so it's gmp versus well uh you know uh banned substance testing

is there there's no fancy acronym for testing down to like the billionth of a micron or whatever you guys know we could make one up but not really you should so you should so gmp is making sure that there's no rodents in the facility kind of shit yeah like making sure there's no rat poop in it yeah there's yeah not rodents making your stuff and you know you know tyt test the test you trust test so you know that's the thing it's like you know can it kind of give you your your audience the kind of idea like what how low this is is if you took a teaspoon of methamphetamine and you threw it in an olympic size swimming pool our lab would be able to find all of it wow so yeah yeah that's the sensitivity of what we do and now so so if someone

snorted a line of coke and jumped into my home pool and then you tested the water and some came out theoretically you could you could find it we could probably find it but like i'd have to get a the pool guy to come help so that that's uh that's fast that's fascinating to me so can can you give us an idea of how that process works how did yeah i mean example wow yeah i'll give some perspective yeah and that's the thing don't swim i mean you know what they're saying now they're saying if you kiss or have sex intercourse with there's like i heard one other thing with people who've taken the mrna gene therapy that it could transfer to you it was a butamurin was transferred via some sort of sexual relation

and that was a big case maybe four or five years ago in the crossfit space and that's totally a butamarin was transferred via some sort of sexual relation. And that was a big case maybe four or five years ago in the CrossFit space. And that's totally likely is what you're saying. Not totally likely, but there's a, there's a chance. There's always a chance, you know, we test, we test low enough. We'll find something. And like through semen Hiller or through just spit. It could have been through kissing. It could have been through some sort of other interaction between the two,

but it was leading towards that way. The word is escaping me, but it was a butamor. It's a growth hormone secretagogue. You take it under the tongue, it's sublingual, so it would make sense if it were a kiss. You know, Andrew, that's an interesting story because here's the thing is like, when you talk about protein compounds, like, you know, HGH and secretogogs and this kind of stuff, let's say that we, you know, had a protein powder and we overtly, you know, threw something like that in there. Well, it gets

destroyed in the gut. So it's not going to be absorbed. That stuff has to be intravenously or subcutaneously absorbed. And so, you know, those are things to kind of like, this is really like the science of anti-doping is very interesting because you're like, all right, what's the compound? All right. Well, what are they, how much is in them? And you know, how much did we find in our product? And, oh, are they saying that came from the product? Well, that's kind of impossible because that stuff gets destroyed in the gut and it's not absorbed. So like, you know, someone saying, hey, this is growth hormone. You need to take, you know, five pills of it. You're not going to absorb any of that. So, I mean, it's, it's not going to do you any, any good, probably waste your money, but it's like, that's the, there's, there's different, the lot of what goes into this is, and what's on our list depends upon what is most prevalent

in the supplement industry. There's a lot of repeat offenders. I mean, we see a lot of things like DHEA and I'm sure, I don't know if any of you guys take DHEA, you can buy it at Walgreens, but that's on the water list. They consider that a steroid. You can buy it at Walgreens, but that's on the water list. They consider that a steroid. That happened this year with a team. I believe it was move fast, live heavy. It was a female who was taking DHEA.

Yeah. That's the positive for it. Yeah. And, and everyone's like, you gotta be kidding me. I bought this at, you know, you know, Walgreens, like I said, well, the thing is, is, you know, it does a lot of different things as far as, you know, helping with insulin, helping with testosterone or not testosterone, but hormone regulation, things to that nature. And you make less and less of it every, you know, as you grow older. And so a lot of people supplement it. But WADA, who is the granddaddy, they decide what goes on as far as the list. They said, no, that's too much of an advantage and you can't have that.

what goes on as far as the list, they said, no, that's too much of an advantage and you can't have that. Well, what we find is, you know, is DHEA is a problem because it's really a light and sticky substance. So it can get into the machine. You know, if they say, hey, we got rid of all the DHEA in this place, you know, we come back three months later, we swab down the place, we still find DHEA because it's sticky and it's light and it's airborne. It's like, it's a pain in the butt. So that's always a problem. And so, you know, there's people who will pop for that. You know, a lot of methamphetamine type compounds are always a, an issue. And, you know, it's because they're being, there's two places you're going to find banned substances end up in a product. Number one is going to be in the raw materials that are being shipped in from different countries.

The other one is going to be in the manufacturing process, you know, because they have poor SO standard operating procedures. You know, it's not cleanly. They're using the wrong detergents to clean the machines. They don't segregate where these, you know, if they have banned substances in the raw materials, they're not segregating them. They're not in a separate facility. So they don't get close to your product. You know, there's all these things. And that's something, you know, we talked a little bit about our history. That's one of the cool things I like about us is like, we look at it from a very tactical or very, you know, holistic point of view is like, how do we mitigate as much risk to the end consumer? And also to the brand. Of having something like that show up.

And all this goes into it. So there's the raw materials. The machine. The person. Yep. And then I guess maybe the container those are the four yeah all those things and those last three are all in the manufacturing facility like if you know if they're not you know a lot of times this sounds bad and i don't want to throw any manufacturers we work

with there's a lot of great manufacturers and there's a lot of great brands out there but like you know you go to some manufacturers and they're like, I'm like, Hey, you know, we asked, do you have banned substances in the facility? And they say no. And then they send us a raw material manifest of everything they have. And there's like five on there. Wow. They have no idea. And, you know, and so, you know, that doesn't mean everybody's like that, but like, you know, there's, there doesn't mean everybody's like that. But like, you know, there's there's a there's a potential problem right there, you know, that we try to mitigate as much risk on the front end, which is where it's being manufactured. So on the back end where you were actually doing the finished product testing, we have very little chance of something going awry. Speaking of banned substances. Good morning.

High Rocks champion. Nice to see you here, brother. to a store i don't even know if they have gncs anymore but when i was a kid they had the store called gnc you would walk into those stores around the country you'd buy like just a container of shit like anyone else would you'd swipe the lgc corporate card you take it back and then you take a scoop out and then you test that yes yeah we need about 30 grams to test and what is that what does that look like can you kind of walk me through the dummy version of what that test looks like yeah and it's going to be real dumbed down because um please let me test the stuff thank goodness so um um basically what they do is they we have a list um we're testing or surveying for over 285 compounds and they're going to take it, prepare a sample. We're going to use things like a gas spectrometer, a mass spectrometer,

and something called high-resolution accurate mass. And these are all fancy words for machines. Yeah, mass. Yep. Gas spectrometer. Yep. Sounds expensive. They are. I wish...

Only a couple hundred grand, right? Yeah. I'm not sure how much they'll let me near them. Cause I think they're afraid I break them. So, um, but, but no, they'll, um, prepare a sample. They'll run that through, through all the machines. Um, and they're gonna, they're gonna basically, uh, look for the presence of those, uh, banned substances in that sample. And if, you know, for example, if they can't pull data, they'll run it again. If they can't, you know, pull data because, say, it's a weird matrix, say it came in a gel or, you know, came from, it's got a lot of different components in it or something of that nature, they'll run it again. You know, came from, it's got a lot of different components in it or something of that nature,

they'll run it again. You know, until we're satisfied that there's nothing in there, nothing gets released. And so they're very conservative about it. Let me take a stab at this. Kayla, what was that machine that they were using that spins and they were using it to search, look for COVID um this that spin machine the guy won the nobel prize for inventing it uh he told dr fauci hey absolutely do not use this machine to try to find viruses in people because basically you could spin something down to such a small molecule that you could find anything and anything like this guy i don't know if you remember the guy won the nobel prize he was he then died which is kind of another fascinating rabbit hole. But basically they said we could find, uh, uh, broken viruses, particles

of the AIDS virus in every human being on the planet if we spun their shit down enough. And then, and then you've also, uh, heard that our water's contaminated, that you can take a sample of water anywhere in the United States and you can find pharmaceutical drugs in it, you know, um, because from people flushing that shit down the toilet, is it like that what you guys do too? Is there, do you guys just find just the craziest shit? And is there some threshold where you're like, okay.

No, this is the best podcast. Like you guys ask good questions. Thank you. Thank you. No, like I wish I heard that every show, only 99% of the shows no no they uh you know if you test low enough we'll find some like we can test the ice cream you give your kids and we'll find something uh what do you tell the story that you want one place you went into you guys swabbed a palette and there was cocaine on it yeah we went into a fucking palette for those of you who don't know what that is, that's the wooden things that are stacked up everywhere all over the world. Yeah, part of what we do when we go into a manufacturing facility is certified is we'll take 20 swabs at contact points throughout the manufacturing facility looking for stuff.

Well, pallets, those wooden things that are, you know, you'll see barrels or whatever boxes stacked on them and forklifts moving them around. Well, those don't belong to that facility. They're just on a truck that show up. Well, who knows what was on it before? Well, we've, you know, we swabbed it and they found cocaine on it. And like, I mean, you know, who knows where that came from, but like one of the things that you'll find in our certified facilities is no wooden pallets everything's plastic so like again mitigating risk as much as possible because you because you can clean plastic and you can't clean a wooden yeah it's not going to be as absorbable as wood you know to to carry a lot of that stuff and you can you can clean pallets easier all i hear is i've probably done cocaine before and i didn't even know it

it's everywhere i don't i don't remember what year it was but i remember being a kid and someone did this test on hundred dollar bills and it was it was a preposterous amount of hundred dollar bills that had cocaine on them yeah Yeah. It was absolutely nuts. What's your background? What sports do you come from a sport background? What did you play? Yeah. In college,

I did football and track and field and Olympic lifting. And then, um, later in life, um, I got to, uh, try out and made the U S men's bobsled team.

And then, Oh, later. No, I think he was after me and then uh afterwards um i was able to uh do judo under uh ed liddy and uh ryan reaser in colorado springs did you go to the olympics for judo also no no i got to train with a bunch of olympians which was a lot of fun too so i'm trying to remember i cannot believe i can't remember this guy's name but i made a movie called pulling john about professional arm wrestling and one of the main characters in it from russia he went to the olympics a big russian guy really he went to the olympics with judo and then he went to the olympics

on the uh russian bobsled team what the fuck no wait those guys are dangerous those like the those eastern european russian guys yeah those guys are dangerous i saw him do stuff in a rusted gym and uh in sochi that uh i would tell people or show people the footage and uh even believe it we're pulling john let's see let me see if i can find this yeah they're brutal they're brutal when they fight did you this is totally off subject did you see the kayla harrison fight speaking of judo no i i've met kayla harrison a few times my old coaches knew her really well but how'd she do she lost really yeah it was it was it was it was actually heartbreaking but the girl who beat her was really good i mean it went

the distance it went to the decision the guy's name's uh alexi vivoda hmm is that name ring a bell not to me but i talk about devon lorette like how did you forget that darren devin uh yes um when when when you when you when these things are transferred to the product let's say unintentionally could it just be just someone hanging over the mix and a bead of sweat come off of them and go into the uh supplement you know i don't know about a bead of sweat but i like someone who's all juiced up like andrew and then he drips into their shit and then yeah well if you know if andrew's inadvertently doing cocaine on the line while he's putting lids whoa whoa whoa it's a pellet all right there's a pellet i swear to god hey sniffing the pallets i mean yeah it definitely could happen that way i don't know about a beat of sweat but I mean, there's always a chance somehow of stuff getting airborne and getting into something.

And so, you know, that's the whole idea is like you can't ever be 100 percent sure on on any of this. So we're trying to mitigate as much risk as possible. And so that's the one thing I like. you know, what we do is we do have that background and we're like, Hey, this is where the most likely problems are going to be. And so we try to mitigate that. Um, we had a guy on here recently, um, Sean Ramirez, uh, master's athlete in the CrossFit space. Uh, he tested positive, then he had his supplements tested and they found whatever he was taking in his supplements. And then and then he sued the supplement company and won. Yeah. Is that is that is that what happens? Is that a standard standard practice?

That's what happens now. So like in the past, like, you know, back when I was competing, if you got busted for taking something, you're just done. They're going to kick you out. Now, what is really lenient, you know, with these athletes, they're like, Hey, if you can prove that you didn't know, and it came from your supplement, then, you know, it's up to two years suspension and, or time served. And they'll say, you know, Oh, he didn't know, or she didn't know whatever.

And so there'll be reinstated. Um, they might have to set out for a little bit. A really good famous, uh, case was Yolo Romero, UFC fighter. Yep.

Beautiful man. Cuban. Yeah. And he, uh, he sued gold star nutrition for 27.5 million point five million because he got suspended by USADA for two years. And then I think what if I if and I like and again, I'm not real familiar with the case, but I'm almost sure that that twenty seven point five turned out to be twelve point five in reality. But I mean, it's twelve point five5 million bucks so he was kind of glad

his shit was tainted i don't know if he was glad because he was he was i'll speak for him on his behalf he was like but you know that just says like you know here's this guy and i you know and i don't know him nor do i you know i got nothing to say about him, but like, what I will say is any athlete, just like him, I'm like, Hey man, you're different than everyone else. You get drug tested a lot. I mean, you know, when you're at, you know, an Olympic hopeful, they're all over you like white on rice, man. They're at your, you know, house at three in the morning, you better be there. You gotta be, I mean, you're just different. And if you're, you're competing in, in athletics where it's drug tested and there's money on the, oh, and there's money on the line or there's betting on the line,

you better fricking, you know, be advised. You don't just take stuff because your buddy said to take it. Or my buddy's friend, who's a big dude is got a new company and he's taking it he's giving me free stuff you're not that you're not that guy you got to be a little smarter than that and so yeah we had someone in the crossfit space say that he didn't even know someone just gave him a bag of pills and said hey take this yeah yeah that's a no-no if you're a professional athlete super no-no um so i'll give you like um asafa pal do you guys remember him remember usain bolt yes and on the four by i think it's four by four team was asafa pal and asafa um he got busted for oxylofren which is a stimulant um and it was, if I remember right, my, my, our global director worked on that a little bit.

He got a phone call and he got busted because it was, he was given something because his, if I remember correctly, his trainer knew a guy who had a supplement company and said, Hey, you need to try this. And so like tried it, popped hot. And they said, Hey, you need to try this. And so like tried it popped hot. And they said, Hey, send us what you have. And of course there was this, maybe it was Austrian oxylofren or Austrian, but it was in there. And so then we waited, you know, if I remember how Paul told me the story, but like we waited three to three weeks or three months, then we ordered the stuff again it wasn't in there anymore like yeah it wasn't in there anymore but the thing is is the stuff that he took it was in so here's the thing is like and this is a dangerous thing it's like you went and got another package of the shit

and it wasn't in there yeah we ordered it yeah we ordered another pack and like and uh here's the dangerous thing i think is like this is a guy who's your trainer, you know, saying, here, just take this. My buddy's got a supplement company going. No. Unless it's been third-party tested, it's crap. Don't take it. So there's just too much to risk. And so that guy got busted.

All those guys lost their gold medal from the 4x4, all of them. Oh, wow. All those guys lost their gold medal from the four by four. All of them. Oh, wow. This this this gold star supplement company that he sued, were they third party tested? No, they weren't. They weren't.

They were just. Do you ever hear of stuff being being tainted that was third party tested? Every now and then you hear something. But you always hope it's your competitor. You always like, God, I hope that's not us. I hope that's not us. No, we've never, and no athlete has ever tested positive off an informed sport or informed choice product. So we're really like, that's something we kind of hang our hat on.

We're really happy about that. Not to sound like I'm selling the program or anything. Sell the program. People need to know, no, this, that's like the most important thing you're you're undefeated i mean yeah we're undefeated and um we're global um we're accepted by more uh you know uh organizations worldwide than anybody um you know we own the planet when it comes to this and we're the gold standard globally and the reason why is we test everything we test every like if andrew and i started a supplement company, every production run we made had to be tested pre-release.

Andrew would not be allowed in the production facility. He is a walking contaminant. Him and his palates. Yes. I bring them with me everywhere. Palate flavored protein. If anything, I can just blame everything on them. There you go.

The palate flavored protein. If anything, I can just blame everything on them. There you go. But like, no, with that, you're going to see what I like about that is, you know, we test everything. So before it's even released, it's tested. And then on top of that, we're taking blinds from the retail area. So let's say everything's tested. Well, we had anti-doping agencies and sporty bodies go, hey, how do you know you're getting all the lots or all the production runs?

Well, we'll go out and we'll just purchase crap right off the shelf. And we're like, oh, looks like we're getting them all. Or, oh, we found something that wasn't sent in. And so we'll ask for batch manifests and things of that nature too. But, I mean, it's very robust and again you know is it a hundred percent no anti-doping program is a hundred percent but you know we we pride ourselves that you know we've never had anyone pop hot and especially if putin's in charge of it yeah i know boy that was crazy wasn't it that was awesome those guys old school so old school cut a hole in the wall take the bottle out yeah that guy's like i know how we're gonna get away

so savage some kgb guys to give us you know their blood and urine this is how it's gonna work um listen up everyone the the greatest uh chief marketing officer who ever existed on the planet that's me uh is going to tell you if you're going to start a supplement company, I just thought of a name for you for your supplement company. You'll never look like me. And then you put a picture of the guy who's selling the supplements, and he's just completely honest that he's juiced to the gills, but he still sells you creatine and protein. It's just called you'll never look like me. That's just like – I heard that's where the liver king is going with his – Easy's my friend easy hillary easy and that's next you'll never look

like me easy easy that guy that guy got popular real quick i love myself liver king's the man how andy um these raw materials like i'll pick creatine because it's the only one that i i know but um is creatine a raw material first of all yeah it's a raw material can be a finished product too but yeah most of time it's dumped in something where how many suppliers are there for that in the world is basically all the creatine coming from one place no there's a few of them uh korea pure comes out of germany um and then you've also got the, the Chinese, of course, um, the Indians make it as well. So, um, there's a few different suppliers. What, what we're finding, you know, which is kind of interesting since COVID, um, couple things.

Number one is, um, supply chain sucks and the economy sucks. Everything costs more. So, you know, if I go to you and you're my creatine supplier and you're like, hey, man, I have no more creatine. I can't get it, whatever. So then I got to go to my buddy. You know, you're like, hey, I got a buddy in India that it might have it. And I call him up. Well, I don't know him. And he's like, oh, I can get it to you cheaper than Savan. And I got tons of it. Well, I don't know him. And he's like, oh, I can get it to you cheaper than Savan. And I got tons of it. Well, who knows what he's doing? And you're making, this is how you make your money. So you're like, hey, look, you know, all right, I'll give this a shot. So, you know, the unknown has kind of come into raw materials is like anybody, they're scrambling to

find raw materials to make these products. So the chance of inadvertent contamination goes up because if I've been buying from you for the last 10 years and we've never had a problem, I feel pretty comfortable about that. But if I'm going to X, Y, and Z, you know, just whatever I can get, you know, you're going to have more issues. The other thing we noticed was protein consumption went up dramatically during COVID. I think- Do you have a theory for that? Why is that? It's because protein, like powder protein, you can store.

It's a macronutrient you can store. I mean, most protein, like meat, you got to cook it, you got to freeze it, whatever. You think that was survivalists buying that shit? Survivalists, yeah. Zombie apocalypse. Wow. Yeah, there's people. Well, here's the thing it's like let's say um you know my mom and dad who don't take protein but they're like well

maybe we can't get stuff at the store we better have this on hand just in case you know so how much should you have for a day six months how much protein do you need to survive i don't know honestly three buckets of delivery three of Deliver King's protein. I was just thinking, I was like, how much protein do I take? How much do you need to survive? I don't know, 50 grams a day over the course of the next six months? 30,000 grams? I saw this stat that 80% of the people in the United States are on supplements,

meaning that's everything from vitamin C to testosterone replacement therapy. Yeah. I'm guessing. I would believe that Americans are supplement hounds. I think I saw. Oh, you think it's higher than 80%. Have you ever met someone who doesn't take anything?

Well, here's the other thing. Would you consider coffee a supplement because caffeine is a supplement yeah so they would up it and it's everyone well let me know someone who hasn't taken a multivitamin but they have coffee every day have you guys ever like i mean you know iron rich bread uh calcium fortified orange juice all that stuff supplemented right you know like everyone's like oh i don't take supplements yeah you do you just don't know you are so like all that stuff is supplemented so it's a big business

hunter mcintyre i'm calling out hiller oh we had a debate so we my kids and i had a debate uh hunter if who was stronger and more fit you or um so there were a couple questions they wanted to know if hunter could beat up sylvester stallone and they wanted to know if um so hunter you win that one but who is more fit uh you or andrew hiller and that would be very interesting thing to see if uh the high rocks champion could um beat the uh definition of fitness i bet i could be in the competition but he'd beat me in a race but we'll cover all the all the time domains all right and i think that hunter's in big trouble also i weigh 205 right now i don't know weigh, man, but you're also four inches taller than me.

Have you ever – Andy, have you ever met Hunter McIntyre? No, I haven't. No. My money is on Andrew right now just because I know him. Yeah. Hunter is quite the specimen. He is something else he was the guy i don't he was the guy that one year um greg glassman invited him without um requiring him to um go through the trial process invited him just to show up at the crossfit games and compete all right i'm starting to change and i'll tell you and he did not embarrass himself he is no he is quite the um he was one cut away from going even further here's the next one he would

have won the next and he's got and he's got that red hair like power he's a big old ronald mcdonald dude and he's got just that red hair anger how frustrating does that got to be to the guys who train like twice a day i hated hunter yes yes i hated him for it you You know, he's just like, I'm just good at this. It wasn't even his fault, but we just hated him for it. I love him for it. When you test those supplements and it's one out of 10, and then didn't something recently happen at Amazon too? Someone tested 30 amp. What was that story yeah you know and that was kind of a quality assurance test it wasn't for banned substances but now foods who's one of our clients um i got told this story by their uh vice president and he uh what they did is they went out and they got uh coenzyme q10 supplements which is

you know it's an antioxidant it It helps with heart health. It's, I mean, fairly expensive when it comes to supplementation and they tested like 30 brands or something like that. Um, this has been published and I think nutritional insider, but you know, a ton of them failed. It was like, you know, milligrams, there was like 50 in there or whatever it was. It was like full of crap. And so like I've seen this. This is this is public, right? Yep. This is public.

And so they called them out. And, you know, and then as of late, I think they went a year later, tested them all again and nothing had changed. But it puts pressure on people like Amazon who have selling platforms to have some kind of quality assurance, which Amazon does. Amazon who have selling platforms to have some kind of quality assurance, which Amazon does, and they're cleaning up their platform. So like people, you know, can feel comfortable buying on there. One of the things that they'll do is they'll say, Hey, if you're a sports supplement and you're informed sport informed choice, you can sell on our platform automatically because we're, you know, we're verifying, you know, a lot of these checks, quality assurance checks, you know, so they can feel comfortable coming onto that platform.

And they're like, oh, you're informed support. OK, come on. I'm torn, Andy. I'm so torn because I fucking hate government oversight and I hate licensure. It's crippling to the economy that some lady in Utah can't be braiding people's hair without paying money to the to the state. It's it's it's. But on this subject, and I know I know you work for one of these companies. Do you think that this stuff needs oversight? You know, I think, you know, I think to an extent. Or just like capitalism, figure it out like, hey, you need to go to. I'm more like that.

The thing is, is I don't, you know, I think what's funny is the government at many times thinks we're stupid. And I think if you give people the right information, they're not stupid. And so we can figure it out for our own. The market demands this. I mean, and I. Through what lens are they stupid? Are we stupid? What are they- I think they're like, oh, they don't know that they need to not have stuff with lead in it. They don't, you know, they don't need, you know, like, but if you and I came up with a supplement,

we're like, hey, look, look at all this testing we're doing. And, you know, these people aren't, then, you know, I'm going to buy that. I don't care if it's five bucks more or a dollar more or a hundred dollars more. I want the stuff that's going to be safe. And so, you know, I usually give the example to a lot of people. They're like, Hey, look, you know, our customers aren't really a lot of banned substance people. And I said, well, okay, who are they? And they're like, oh, they're like soccer moms. They're like, you you know dad's just trying to get into the gym and i'm like this and that and i said or high school athletes or whatever and i'm like let's say you're buying a protein for a kid that's 12 years old that doesn't get enough protein doesn't eat ostrein yeah you want he also would he also

he also would want 25 grams if it were to say 25 grams is what you're saying right right not unless you're getting this high the highest quality you can possibly get because these are the people you care about. And you want it from a health perspective. I think that the market demands high quality assurance. And the thing is, everybody out there is going to tell you they got the best stuff. We're out there saying, hey, these are the checks that this has gone through as a third party. And so I think the market can kind of dictate, you know, that, you know, is there government over, you know, does there need to be oversight by the government to a point? But I also think the market, you know, kind of also is a good barometer of what's needed.

Can I pitch two questions to you? All right. We have two separate entities. Number one is Podium, Matt Fraser's company. He wants to test all of his products through you guys. What does that look like? Does he send you a pallet of everything? Because he can't just send you a container, correct? A container, you could say, yep, this has 25 grams of protein in it they're gonna like this you're gonna like what they do andrew i heard this on another podcast what does this look like no details too small andy tell us the whole thing it's really cool so basically he would call like him and i would talk and i'd say okay um the first thing we do is we look at um the products he wants to certify

um we look and look at the the label and a lot times, like I said, people don't even know they have banned substances in it. So we look at it, make sure there's no banned substances. And then we say, Hey, look, you know, this is what it's going to take to become a certified. First thing is we're going to look at your manufacturer. We're going to verify that it's GMP. We're going to verify that they're doing the tests for like heavy metals, label verification, you know, pesticides, things that contaminants like that. And then we're going to look at it from a cross contamination point of view. We're going to see like, hey, what's going on in here? You know, kind of like we talked about before. You know, we're going to look at contact points. We're going to look at raw material manifests.

We're going to look at raw material manifests. We're going to say, hey, look, how do we mitigate as much risk from a cross-contamination point of view beyond GMP? So we're going above and beyond that. Once that manufacturer has fulfilled that assessment, then we're going to take at least three samples from one production run or up to five samples from five different runs. And we'll test them for banned substances and the registration and then once they've passed sorry to interrupt andy but don't you i heard you say in one of the other ones that you also test the raw materials first before you yeah we do we do have a raw material like we will do that for some people they'll say hey look we've got um you know uh beaver's over here and

he's got a new creatine and we you know we've never bought from him so like you know we want you to test that before we run it through you the the screen and so we'll test raw materials as well so before it even happens and then we'll test the finished product because you don't want to test the raw material first or the finished product? Well, it kind of depends. I mean, yeah, it always is because then you're super sure. But like, you know, what I think is like sucks is like, let's say you sold me some creatine that was contaminated and I made a bunch of, I don't know, awesome sauce product with it. Well, now it's all contaminated because we didn't test your stuff first.

And so now you're like, oh, I really want to be in form sport. And we're like, no, not so much. You got to get, you know, we're not going to put our logo on that. And so you don't always test the raw materials first. Just like there's not like a step by step, test all the raw materials, test the machines, swab the machines, and then test the final product? We do the manufacturing will be the first part where we're looking at the manufacturer. And then the second part will be testing the finished product. So not all the time will we always test the raw material. That's upon request with the manufacturer or the brand. That's upon request with the manufacturer or the brand. And so, but because the thing is, is we're testing down so sensitive that we will find it.

It's we don't have to test it beforehand. We'll find it on the finished product. So, you know, I always think it's good to test those raw materials if you're worried about them, because you don't want to be caught with your pants down and have a whole bunch of stuff that's contaminated. But, you know, in the finished product testing, we'll pick it up. Have you ever had anyone use the Informed Sport certification label, but that they didn't use you? They just stuck your tag on there, jumping right out of China? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like we got, yeah. You have a wicked legal team?

Yes. Yes. We're actually owned by a company comes out of Great Britain. And I'll tell you what, you think American lawyers are tough. Like these guys will talk you to death. But yeah, they stomp that out pretty fast. A couple of years back, we did a brand change just to kind of help combat that. And our marketing and legal team, they stay on top just to kind of help combat that in our marketing and legal team. You know, they stay on top of that kind of stuff. But, you know, we see that. But the other thing, too, is you have to remember we have a we have an app. We also have a Web site. And we always tell athletes like, hey, if you don't see the lot number or you don't see that product on our Web site, don't take it.

That's like the that that's how you know, is you double check. And again, we go back to people who are different. You're different. You don't get to just go to Walmart and buy whatever and take it and I'm good to go. But like you're actually being tested. So double check always. And a lot of these people have sports performance dieticians, strength coaches, you know, kind of doing that for them. And, um, if, if I go to the app store, what do I type in to see your app? And for people who don't know, I think the way the app works is basically you can just scan a barcode, right? Yep. You can just scan a barcode and it'll tell you everything you need to know about that supplement, whether it's been tested, you know,

expiration date, you know, all kinds of information kinds of information so um you just type in informed sport and you'll be able to download it um whether it's the apple store or android i typed in informed sport i don't see it i get something like called trade rumors pre-fight trade rumors a bunch of chinese apps that's terrible are you doing it on your phone uh go to we test you trust oh that's right because i'm doing it on my i you doing it on your phone? Go to WeTestYouTrust. Oh, that's right, because I'm doing it on my computer. That's why. Yeah, I just tried to do the same thing. Okay. So, and basically, this app, you can just walk into a Walmart and start scanning things, and it will tell you whether you guys have third-party tested it.

Yep. And most of them, like when we, most brands will use our logo on the front. But again, you know, double check. Always double check. What about tainted meat? Canelo saying, go ahead. Go ahead, Andrew. I won't forget.

That's another question that I had. What about Canelo and his tainted meat? Well, I can't speak specifically to him, but is there stuff in meat? Yeah. There's naturally occurring steroidal compounds in nature. When's the last time you found something via your company in meat, if ever? Well, never because you don't test meat.

Okay. Okay. Okay. I was curious. All right. Could you test meat? How much does it cost? And how would we go about doing that?

I'd have to get, there's a, we got to, All right. Could you test meat? How much does it cost? And how would we go about doing that? I'd have to get there's a we got a we have just an awesome scientist in Kentucky. His name's Alberto Carrillo, and he could probably test the meat. And he he's I think we could probably get that done for you on the cheap. So, but is there a lot of like that? What would you know? I know that's not your expertise, but is there a lot of meat like that what would you know i know that's not your um expertise but is there a lot of meat out there that you think could be tainted that could cause someone to pop well you know what um again it's kind of back to um if we test low enough we'll find anything but you also have to think about you know there's you know whether it's me or whether it's yeah that was the instance

i believe it was in china i believe and i might be in a speaking from a burrito but it was an athlete on crossfit mayhem it was ellie cabord who tested positive for clenbuterol year may have been 2019 maybe but there was yeah it's pig organs and stuff like that. Meat, stuff like that. Correct. Yeah. Okay. So that's real. So that's real. Possibly. I mean, the thing is is I'm not familiar with the case enough to tell you whether it was real or not, but the stuff is, is, you know, things like that do naturally occur in nature. Like, you know,

this is what's scary is like herbal botanicals, herbal botanicals will, you know, have phorandro in them, like not all the time, but as nature is not standardized, you know, there's, you know, you know, there's bio transformation of products, or I mean, sorry, these herbs to where they actually could be a detriment by putting in a product. So there's, you know, there's things like a tribulus terrestris. That's something that has high amounts of for Andrew in it. Does that mean that you're going to get an athletic performance out of it? Probably not. Are you going to test hot? Maybe. So, uh, Chris, I have tested, um, some meat before I've tested, uh, clitoral butyrol and labia majora all, uh, on, on a regular basis. I, I do, um, sounds injectable. Yeah. I do do

quality. I do do quality control. It's, it's part of the therapy that I provide in my, you injected that into your butt. I bet in quality control. It's part of the therapy that I provide. You injected that into your butt, I bet. No, it's a – Uh-huh, uh-huh. Sounds like a lot more interesting laughing out there. When someone like Ramirez pops and then it falls on him, so if you take TEP's tips 10 supplements i have to contact you and then open up my bank account and i have to start sending you those is that this was my next question

did andy freeze yeah can you again because it kind of like uh paused you freeze what is that what is the process let's so let's say i pop and'm like, I didn't do it and I want to start having my stuff tested. And all I take is the all I take all the liver king supplements. How do I so I just start sending you those. And then is that that sounds so expensive if that falls on like an athlete. Yeah, they reach out to us and most of the time it's probably going to be me and maybe another guy, maybe a scientist. We're going to talk to them. And if they want to test something. And they're an athlete, you know, we'll give them a discounted rate because obviously you're not a big supplement company, but we can get it tested and tell you what you're looking at. we can get it tested and tell you what you're looking at. Um, you know, I work with the NCAA. Um, I also work with the DOD and also, um, some Olympic sports and things of that nature. And, you know, you know, I can use the NCAA, for example, like a lot of times they'll be like,

Hey, look, um, we might have an issue here. Um, we sent this off to a lab to get it tested. We'd like to get it tested with you guys too. And second opinion, second opinion. And they, they know that we do this on the regular and we're really good at it. So, um, we're able to do that for them and we do it at a very discounted rate. So they have that information because it's in our best interest that they, you know, use us as a, as a resource. Um, cause you know, we don't, we don't have a

dog in the race. We're just trying to help them get to the truth. And cause you know, who do you believe? You don't know. And, uh, you know, it's, uh, one of those issues, but if you had a CrossFit athlete that was like, Hey, look, I tested positive for this and I didn't take anything. You know, I don't know if it's in there then yeah we could definitely help him out i think he said it was four or five thousand dollars per test no no no it's under a thousand bucks well maybe he didn't go through you guys are you guys more this was also this was also a long time ago this is like you know i don't know five years four years ago four years yeah no i mean it depends i mean he might have been going through somebody else

but um you know a thousand dollars did you is that what you said a thousand about about a thousand bucks we can get this tested um so like i've tested multiple things too maybe it was four he had ten things he had ten things well and of course then that you know and we you know kind of work with that and i don't want to you know start giving out prices and stuff but yeah 10 things yeah we'll help you i mean we don't want you know we can there's a lot of things they're like hey test everything i have you know like you're like hey bro it's not going to be in here it's not in this you know know, here's five things. Let's start here. So, yeah.

Please. This is kind of my barrier for entry with a lot of these is I listen to the whole Sean Ramirez podcast that he did right here. And he said that he went, got it tested, spent his money, went through the legal route, ended up assuming winning, making his money back. And now there's no reason not to believe that his supplements were clear. And then you hear a handful of other athletes in the space saying it was a tainted supplement. And then they're just like, believe me, because I said so, because it happens. And it's almost like my barrier for entry as to whether or not they're telling the truth, because from what we've heard here and what he said on that podcast is that you can clear

yourself and then also not really lose any money and possibly even make money if you were indeed clear. Correct. Well, if you've got a tainted supplement, you know, and it was the brand's fault because they didn't do third party testing, you know, we've, you know, they'll, you'll get sued. And so, um, Oh, if it's third-party tested, okay. Third-party tested. So the thing is, is again, back to third-party testing. Again, it's very specialized testing. Not everybody's doing this crap. And it's like, if you see brands, uh, you know, you know, I don't want to, you know, you know, bear performance does a great job.

Uh, you know, not now sports does a great job. There's a there's a lot of great brands out there doing the right thing. And, you know, that's who you need to be looking towards. If you're just taking whatever and you pop hot. Well, you know what? That's on you, man. Like what is like, you know, hey, look, you're responsible as an athlete of what you put into your body. I agree. I hate blaming other people for that shit.

Yeah. of what you put into your body i agree i hate playing with other people for that shit yeah just so you guys know you can go to the we test you trust website and they are uh they're like an open book you can basically look at everything they tested and you can find it all and you can look it up by brand and look it up by um you can go there and you can search by like creatines that have been cleared or you can look for BSN products that are cleared. There's a brand, I think, that I know they used to be, but I don't know if they still are, but they were a sponsor of CrossFit. It's called Thorne, T-H-O-R-N-E. I didn't find any of their products. I know Thorne tests some of their products with NSF certified for sport.

I know they do that. So we've worked with Thorn. They're really great people. You know, I'm always trying to get them to convert them to come over to the good side of the force. Sure. And say, hey, why don't you come over and hang out with us for a while? And they do a lot of good research. There's really great people there.

But no, they're with our competitors for now. for a while and uh they do a lot of good research there's a really great people there but uh no they're with our competitors for now and i looked on your website for this product that andrew takes or used to take you know explode yeah no it's not but one of their other products is on there bsn uh bsn makes you do have one of their products is that pretty common that someone would split their testing they would do some testing with you and some testing with nsf yeah sometimes um most of the time again you know when it comes to nsf if uh the re you know look not to i don't want to sound disparaging towards our competitors, but like one of the things that NSF has is MLB major league baseball. And so if you're making a ton of money off MLB and then, you know,

they might say, Hey, this product, all these baseball players want, we'll test it with NSF and we'll test everything else with influence support so um yeah sometimes they'll split testing just it's a it's a strategy marketing strategies sales strategy things to that nature and and it goes the other way too i'm guessing less talked about but some people like if i'm a company that's selling dhea i would also go to you even though it's banned from wada and you would test it and be like yep yep, this is pure DHEA. Yeah. But we wouldn't allow it on the program because DHEA is banned. So we would tell you, Hey, look, it's got DHEA in it, but it can't be on our program. Wow. Guys, listen, listen, greatest chief marketing officer who's ever existed. That is a great Slogo For your brand

We were unable to pass We test you trust And I'm telling you that shit will sell Like fucking crazy You'll never look like me We can't pass a test if we tried Yeah if we paid Yeah

Yeah Yeah Yeah Optimum nutrition gold standard way it's on your list yeah so uh stuff you know what's funny though too is a lot of brands that sell overseas and they'll want informed sport so american brands selling into europe selling into australia like south africa things like that they'll only take informed sport so you know because those governments only take informed informed sport well a lot of those

anti-doping agencies will only uh they'll endorse like hey we want informed sport because it's every lot tested and then also um you know sporting bodies that are there, you know, the whole deal is it's every production lot is tested no matter what of this product. And everybody's CYA in themselves all the time. And so they're like, hey, this is the most robust program that's available. So they won't take anything else. They'll take informed sport. So it's kind of interesting what companies will do. sport so it's kind of interesting what companies will do is um are are the contaminated supplements the vast majority of them it is unintentional could you yes the ones we test it's usually

almost all the time unintentional and it's funny because like they start flipping out. I'll tell you guys a funny story. Like one of my first, my first year working with these guys, if a supplement tests positive, you know, there's always a big powwow with scientists and, you know, managers around. And I was involved in one. and, you know, managers around. And I was involved in one. We were in a meeting and there was a, you know, like a, you know, we're not allowed to give advice, you know, with like certain things. We just tell them, hey, here's the facts.

This is what's going on. Here's the threat to you. Here's the threat to the athlete, blah, blah, blah. That's about it. And so, but this guy, he was, he had a supplement company and he was giving it to a, uh, a fighter. And, uh, he flipped out when we told him and he was like, Oh my God, you know, Oh my gosh, you know, like, what am I going to do? And, and, uh, he's flipping out and we can't get a word in as wise. And he's just like, he's panicking. He's having a panic attack.

And he's like, well, what, what should I do? What should I do? And we're like, you know, of course, the scientists are like, well, we're not. Drink water and just flush it out of your system. Just drink a gallon of water. You're good to go. Well, he's giving it to the athlete. This is the brand owner. He's flipping out because he doesn't want to get in trouble.

And he goes, I got to tell this athlete. And they said, well, yeah, we probably would advise, you know, if we're going to advise you, we would advise you tell him to take it what are we going to do what are we going to do and they're everybody's so conservative you mean to not take it you would advise him not to take it yeah so that's what i said out of nowhere i go well he should probably stop taking it yeah and like this guy was like and like everybody kind of looked over at me like, who's the new guy? You know, and the guy goes, all right, I'll get that done. And I was like, that's probably a smart idea, buddy. And like but no, it's a you know, it's a it's a big deal, especially when these people have a lot of money on the line.

So it's kind of funny, though. Let me ask this. This is pretty apropos to the current situation. My homeboy at liver King is selling dehydrated organ meat and pills. Okay. And just to be clear, you just don't, you don't hear this anywhere, but I feel obligated to say this.

He started down that path because his son had autoimmune diseases, and his son was on a path to death. Really? And like millions of people out there who switched to the carnivore diet, their autoimmune diseases vanished. And shitloads of people with really bad eczema. You can find it all over the place. There is a lot of validity to that diet and helping with those issues. And because his son was in such bad shape, I think his son was having tons of seizures and shit. Leverking completely changed his lifestyle and he switched his whole family to the ancestral tenants

to save his kid's life, which is, and then that his passion, like all of us hope for one day will turn into a business and it did then he gets somewhere during the path the the two stories got conflated where he was doing steroids and there became the mix of hey if you take these pills you'll also look like this you can and you live these nine ancestral ancestral tenants you know you leave your cell phone outside, you'll, you'll look like this, you know, if you make sure you, uh, son and just all that stuff. And it became this, this one piece and the piece he didn't tell you about where his, where, where his supplement was tainted was the fact that he was taking steroids. The lifestyle protocol was tainted because he was taking steroids and he didn't tell

us, right? If you think of just the lifestyle, he was preaching as a container of a supplement, the one at peace he didn't tell us was that, hey, there's… I'm on the sauce. I'm on the sauce. So the guy who's his trainer, Steve Vigorous or Vigorous Steve? Vigorous Steve. Yeah, Vigorous Steve. yeah not his trainer consulting coach okay

he leaks the emails that he had with the liver king and what he says in his defense was is that he couldn't sleep at night if he didn't leak them now i me personally, I'm digressing here. I call complete bullshit because if you give this whole explanation why and all of it could be undermined with, well, why didn't you just tell the liver king? And this is where we get this is where this story intersects the story you just told us. Why didn't you just tell the liver king, hey, I'm struggling with the fact that I know you're on steroids and that maybe kids are being manipulated or society is being manipulated by the fact that you're saying it's just these nine tenants, but you're not telling them that in your lifestyle mix is also testosterone. If someone comes to you, let's say that they have 300,000 bottles on the shelves around the world. Okay. And then their shit tests positive. positive okay do you tell the world or do you

have confidentiality with that with that nice tie and that was i'm like where the fuck is he going with this because this guy claims that he did it for us i don't i didn't i don't need him doing that for me um and they're saying that he hurt those little boys, but all I'm seeing is, is he hurt the world to think that all of his message is wrong when 99%, I believe of the liver King's message is right. That's me personally. Yeah.

And so they're throwing the baby out with the bath water, but with you, do you see where I'm kind of drawing this parallel? Like what, what do you guys do? Like, well, I'm a big believer in that car,

the carnivore diet. Cause didn't Jordan Peterson do that? And it's yes and his daughter yes yes yes so like it there's something to it um so yeah i agree you can't throw the baby out with the bath water but as far as we're concerned um what i like about informed sport is that it's all tested pre-release so that stuff's not out there always yeah it's always tested pre-release. So that stuff's not out there. Always. Yeah. It's always tested pre-release. So, you know, So you don't even have to answer my question because it's not a situation you guys would be in. You know, but here's the thing. Yeah. We're, you know, we don't want to be in that situation, but let's just say, let's just say, you know, the kidney King come to, comes to us and says,

Hey, I want to, you know, I want you to test my products and we test them and there's steroids in them or there's something in a methamphetamine compounds, anything we're going to tell him and say, hey, look, you know, this is what's going on. This is what we found. And this is why. And this is the levels we find. And we usually give them some options like, hey, here's some options of what you can do. And it usually involves an investigation. That's a cool thing that we do is we'll say, hey, look, we found

methylhexidamine in your product. And this is what we're going to do to try to find out where it's at, where it's going to demand a few more testing. We're going to talk to your manufacturer. You know, everything's held in house and controlled because you just don't want people going off the deep end with a half the information. And we're going to be like, Hey, look, let's figure out why this is the way it is. And so we might look at, um, the production run that was run before his, his products and the one afterwards. Um, we'll look at raw material manifests as you changed, uh, you know, raw material suppliers? You know, we might even test all the raw materials that were in that product. You know, if they come

to us and they have a problem, we give them an option as we will find it. We'll find out why it's tested that way. And that's what's really cool about what we do. I mean, it's kind of, you know, it's kind of manufacturers. That's not for the individual. Like if if sean sent you his supplements you're not going to be like hey it happened here at conveyor belt six but if a company asks you to test you'll find where the tainted supplement occurred yeah what we'll do is like if individuals sent it to us then what we would do is um we would alert the company that it belonged to and say the brand and say, hey, we're testing your product. This is what we found. You know, you should be aware of this. And if you want us to open up an investigation and talk about informed sport and banned substance testing, it might be to your advantage.

And because most of them are like, oh, man, we didn't even know. Yeah, we'd like to talk to you. So. I just want to uh this one comment here uh justin h uh the problem with liver king was he point blast point blank asked a new on numerous podcasts if he was on anything and he dug in and was definitely not and went on to say you just got to live this primal lifestyle well yeah that i agree yeah the problem with the church is that they've been telling you that jesus christ is going to save you yet. No one's seen him. I mean, like we could play this game a million times. I'm not defending him. I'm not defending him. But I treat people the way I would want to be treated.

And I don't I don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I'm not hating on a guy. My dear friend, Greg Glassman, who I speak to every single day uh 10 million of you 10 million of you around the world do crossfit but your body doesn't look like his are you upset at greg i mean come on i mean we could play the game all day like i i just and the vast majority of you are you try to practice a little compassion instead of just fucking hate well elicit that yeah grace goes a long ways and like that's the thing that's lacking in society today you know right i think that people are like oh let's jump on this because it's drama you know all right you

know let's jump on something like that and so and i think you know you know like you said 90 of what he was saying was probably right it probably made made a big difference. It's made a difference for other people, but Hey man, you're on the sauce. You're on the sauce. Like just come through. Yeah. And,

and I, well, it's a fucking rabbit hole, but yeah, well, I'm also pretty sure that liver King never said it would make you look like him either. He just happened to look that way.

Uh, Greg never said, if you do Crossfield look like me, fair enough. We'll rant. Don't, don't punch holes in my argument will how dare you i need a direct clip from saying if you take my supplements

you will look like me and i don't think i heard that um how many supplement companies are there in the world do you know thousands thousands i mean that's the other thing that's that's kind of a good question because it brings up a good point is um there was a really good documentary a good friend of mine rick collins was uh helped him was involved in it he's a lawyer out of new york but uh it was called bigger faster stronger and they did a like it was kind of like sterile america movie yeah yeah fantastic movie and it was like it was a pretty neat documentary i I think it was Chris Bell or his brother or something like that. Yes. And they kind of took a very sober look at everything.

And they said, hey, I can make any supplement. Look at me go. In Utah. Yeah. And to a point, that's correct. But it doesn't define the majority. I mean, does it define the majority of supplement companies out there? You know, I don't know, but there are plenty of good ones that are available to you, you know, readily.

What I would say is what's scary to me is the supplement industry is almost bulletproof. It's constantly growing, constantly growing. I mean, COVID, it almost bulletproof. It's constantly growing, constantly growing. I mean, COVID it grew in COVID, you know, it look, we, you know, we're in a recession. Maybe people wouldn't agree with that or, you know, it'll grow, you know? So that being said, um, more people are getting into it. They're like, Hey, look, I got, I got some money and I want to make more money and I think I should make a supplement because I think I know what everybody wants. And so they just throw money at it

and they think they can make a supplement and they can and they can sell it. But is it going to be successful? Maybe, maybe not. But it's more readily available for people to enter in that space. So the pie grows bigger, but the pie slices

there's more of them so i don't know if that makes sense but it totally does a will branceter i will also point out this and at the end of the 2008 documentary every second counts if you haven't seen it get it now uh at the end greg glasson puts his arm around jason kalipa who won the event and says this is our product and uh I worked out twice a day, seven days a week for three or four years and I never looked like Jason. So there, I know it's not a great comeback, but it's all I got.

Javier, I think we talked about why creatine got so expensive. Maybe 40 minutes ago. Was it a supply thing? That's a supply thing? Supply thing, yeah. I had a 30 thing? That's a supply thing. Supply thing. Yeah. Um,

I had a 30 minute conversation with an owner of a GNC about two months ago that I didn't ask for. I was just like, why? I guess I asked for it. Like, why is this creatine $56? It was 20 bucks like a month ago. Yeah.

It's not like a month. It was probably two years ago. Yeah. They, uh, I heard, and I like, and again, don't take this as the gospel, but I, you know, I heard that the, the main manufacturer in, uh, China, the manufacturing

plant burned down or something like that. I know it sounds silly. Next to the ivermectin plant in Thailand. That was fantastic. Yeah. Do you know about that? Do you know about that Hiller? Yeah. Yeah. I heard it probably through you or I don't know. I heard it somewhere. I know what that stuff does. Yeah. Do you do you do you test anything besides do you test like supplements for like horses or dog racing or any of that stuff? Yep. Yep. Actually, that's where we got our start was we started in horse racing. You know, the main lab is in Fordham, England, which is the where the queen or the king or whatever you want to call them over there keeps all their horses. So like horse racing, you think you want to talk

about big money. It's in horse racing. Then we went into dog racing, pigeon racing, you know, trying to take a urine sample from a pigeon is pretty tough. That's how you do it with animals. It's urine samples. You squeeze it, right?

And then how do you, yeah. How do you do that? I don't know. I'm glad I don't have that job. Pigeon racing is, is fascinating. It's,

it's exploding in China right now. Is it? Exploding. It's in the decline in the U S but it's exploding in China right now. Is it? Exploding. It's in the decline in the US, but it's exploding in China. Have you seen them versus drones? Like pigeon versus drone? No. Have you? No, it's not real, but it should be. It should be.

No, that's awesome. They have a 250-mile race, a 500- and a 1,000-mile race. And, yeah. And, uh, yeah, yeah.

Oh yeah. How did, that's how COVID gets spread. They're so dirty. Did you sell that dust? Yeah. Oh, that was the,

actually what you're watching. That's not a pigeon race. That is how they, yeah, I like that. That's how they spread COVID. That was the initial. pigeon race that is how they yeah i like that that's how they spread covid that was the initial that's actually how i recommended the athlete started dubai is they get those gates and they

keep them behind so that nobody can false start they just open the gates and the athletes are free to start start running look at that bird that bird sold for 1.4 million. His name's Lewis Hamilton. Is it? Crazy. Hamilton. And think of how we treat pigeons. They're so disrespected in the United States, pigeons and seagulls. Well, you know, and think about it. That thing sold for 1.5 or 1.4 million. And let's say the pigeon feed you're giving it is making it stronger or faster or whatever or maybe you're just loading it up on a bunch of junk well you know all that feed has to be tested

you know what do you find in there that's going to be performance enhancing for a pigeon same thing that's a performance enhancing for a person okay oh and sure all right and how about horses same thing so okay is uh they're drug tested do they cycle horses the same way they And how about horses? Same thing. So, okay. They're drug tested. Do they cycle horses the same way they would cycle people if they were to be? I have no idea how to cycle. Yes. I'm going to go with yes. I'm curious because there's a steroid out there that's termed the horse steroid.

And I was always wondering if it's like, no, equipoise. And I was wondering if EQ was allowed to be taken because, I don't know, I know zero about horses like you. I know they call it the horse steroid. Yeah, I have no idea. Like, as far as that's kind of outside my specialty. You paid $5 to say this? Vincent Palomero, Josh Bridges blocked me because I asked him if he's been to California Hormones.

Well, he hasn't. He code seven for a free consultation yes that is true use seven for a free consultation at ca hormones.com if you live in california you can get free blood work too they have fantastic labs in newport beach that is absolutely comfy chairs do you guys test um um humans also like do you test like blood and urine and all and all that stuff yeah the um the actual uh one of the the lab that's in england they do that they uh will test um they do all the drug testing for the ministry of defense which is their department of defense over there um you know they're also testing for non-WADA sports. You know, I believe like first responders and things like that. So I think they would, you know, I would think they'll eventually start doing that over here.

Maybe it all depends on what people above me want to do. But, yeah, we can do it. And we've been doing it for a long time. So how do you do that? What sort of sample? Hair, blood, urine. I think that's what they're doing over there so do you do that by the same means as like a lot of so if a lot of were to drug test an athlete that you do it the same way i don't know how a lot of doing that specifically because we're doing supplements here, but I would assume because that lab over there was actually a water

accredited lab and did spillover work for water from, I think 2004 to 2007. So yeah, we can do everything water water does. I would assume. Can you speak to the drug-free sport versus water, which is the entity CrossFit uses versus the entity, Olympic community uses and now the UFC, I think. Or no, you don't know much of a difference.

Well, WADA is kind of like at the top. WADA decides what's banned. And then USADA is the testing agency? No, USADA is kind of like, so let's say US anti-doping is underneath WADA. And WADA is made up of USADA, ASADA, Australian anti-doping, South

Africa anti-doping, UCAD, United Kingdom anti-doping. But WADA is making the rules. And then everybody has to kind of fall in line. Are they also doing the testing? If you wanted to, you could have a lot of tests? Yep.

Okay. Just wanted to make sure that was the case. And who do they go to? Who do they go to to do their testing? They have their own labs. They do? Yep. On this tent, where do you put drug-free sport?

Is it on the rung with USADA or is there a rung below? I would say it's on the rung with USADA. They have to follow what WADA tells them to. I mean, they're not going to be like, hey, look, I know WADA said testosterone's banned, but we're not going to ban it. I mean, that's ridiculous. So they have to do what WADA tells them as well.

That's the one thing I think's funny sometimes with my job is i get brands who are like well why is that on the ban list i'm like bro i'll make the list right i like the list i find the stuff on the list i had one guy tell me he goes well can't you just call wada and see if they'll they'll allow that crap i'm like i don't have enough money to bribe them yeah like they're gonna, who are you? I would love to see who's on the board board of directors for WADA. I'm going to have to look that up afterwards. Um,

I have about a million questions that can branch off of that, but I just don't know what route we want to go. You can ask yours. No, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. What were you going to go ahead?

Hiller. Well, you know ask yours no go ahead go ahead go ahead what are you gonna go ahead hillar well i don't know how much andy knows about specific compounds and clearance times and testing of athletes and how to get around certain protocols but that's kind of the route that i could go with this if you're at all able to speak on that no not not as much because we're testing the products on end okay so you ask your questions i don't if if so so if just to be clear if you're an athlete and you don't want to test positive you need a third party organization that you can trust and, uh, you trust is undefeated, meaning you guys have never tested a supplement. And then later on, someone found out it was contaminated after you've cleared it and it has the informed sport pass. Correct. That's correct. If you're a drug

tested athlete, you should not be messing around with anything unless it's been third-party tested by an anti-doping lab and informed sport is what I would recommend. And is every supplement that is out there in its, in its raw form, I'm not talking about the brands has, have you guys tested it? Like what if, is there a place where I can be like, well, I actually want to do creatine and they don't have any creatines that have

been certified by a, we test you trust informed sport. Right. When that occurs, let's say you want to just do creatine and they don't have any creatines that have been certified by a, we test you trust informed sport. Right. Um, when that occurs, let's say you want to just do creatine and you're like, Hey, look, um, if you're going to make a product, um, and you're going to put that creatine in it, we can test that raw material for you ahead of time. Um, if you're just you, you know, and you want to get it tested, we can do that on an individual basis but um oh i didn't even

think about that so you're also saying this if i'm a fucking nfl football player and i'm making 45 million dollars a year i can just send all my pay you 10 000 bucks to fucking test some a handful of my supplements every quarter but i can also just tell you seems like good insurance well what's better insurance and saves him a lot of money is let's just say he wants to uh take creatine well all right why don't you just take creatine from on it right there it's been tested by us like you don't have to send us your creatine don't buy that stuff buy the stuff you know the stuff that's already been tested um if if sean ramirez got a four-year ban this is a little out of your lane but i'll ask anyway um and other athletes who were able to prove that um their supplement was tested had their

bans reduced to two years any thoughts on why he wouldn't have had his reduced to two years uh maybe he pissed somebody off i don't know. That's a fair answer. It's interesting. I think human nature is very interesting when the truth comes to light about a lot of things. We talked about the liver king. Oh, hey, this guy was sauced up and then everybody jumps on him. Boom, boom, boom. But people like drama. People are like, oh, you know, people have an agenda. You know, things are sometimes political. But the truth is a very interesting thing. It's penetrating. And people act when you tell them the truth and they can't hide from the truth.

People start doing weird things. So why he got four years instead of two. I don't know. Maybe you should ask them. Yeah, we can ask them in the next press conference, Andrew. Hell yeah. They will not see that coming. Like, wait a minute, wasn't that four years ago? Okay, I really appreciate you coming on. I feel like we turned over a lot of stones.

Andrew, is there anything else you want to throw at him before we? Cleared up a lot of stones. Andrew, is there anything else you want to throw at them before we? Cleared up a bunch of stuff. The big one that I wanted to get across would have been the NSF stuff, and we did that within the first two minutes. I've just heard of an NSF-certified product that has been since proven to be tainted, and I was like, huh? Okay. What, what, what, what, what, what do you mean, Andrew? I don't know how much more I can give on that, but.

Is it public? You can say whatever you want. I can't say very much, but you can say whatever you want. Is it public? Well, I can and I can't. Oh, it's not public. But basically you're saying is you heard a story of a supplement that had the NSF certification and that then was sent to a lab and it was like, but basically you're saying is you heard a story of a supplement that had the nsf certification and that then was sent to a lab and it was like there was austere in it

there was something in it interesting yes and then at which rate that's kind of the hey go take this because it's been third-party tested and i guess you could just go through the uh the uh what sean ramirez route at that point if you've had if you got all your ducks in a row right that's what i'm hearing are you gonna make a video on this andrew that we're eventually gonna see yeah as soon as i have the green light there's no green light yet as you can tell i got is that there's a yellow light hey you're pulling me into this traffic it's's a yellow light, man. It's a yellow light. Slow, slow. Andy, why aren't you on social media? Why are you so difficult to,

why do we have to know someone who knows you? That's by design. I get, they work me a lot, so I'm always busy. You know, I grew up in a really rural part of the United States, so I'm just kind of a private person, I guess. I'm on LinkedIn. I don't even know if that even counts as social media. Went to University of South Dakota. That's where my family's at. Oh, really?

In Vermillion, huh? Yeah, yeah. We got a family in Yankton. Vermtown. You bet. Yankton. Did you know that was the home of Yankton College where Lala Zato went to school? Wow. No, I did not know that. the home of yankton college where lala zato went to school wow no i did not wow yeah speaking of steroids speaking of steroids and like uh you know it's

now a prison his old college is now a prison yeah i think it's a prison so hey that says something about the state of the country right they're turning educational institutes into places to incarcerate young men i guess that's a building I'm thinking of, it has like a three foot fence and it's like a low security prison that like you, the prisoners can literally just walk off. They probably have them out there mowing the lawn and stuff. Oh, for sure. Picking up trash around town, come back at five, you know. It's South Dakota. There obviously has to be uh divesh is

asking basically what is the protocol there's obviously some protocol so that people can continue to use the informed sport uh third-party testing on their products right it's not like test once and then you're good to go for the next 20 years no that's a great question. Um, there, you know, every time a product is, is made, it's tested pre-release that lot. It, once it passes, uh, our test, that lot number is then put onto the website and onto the app and it's allowed to be released into the, into the marketplace. So that's ongoing no matter what. And when you say lot, that's my wife bakes a batch of cookies. Those are tested and then released. And then the next batch of cookies also has to get tested, right? She makes another batch. We tested before we let them, we let her serve them. Awesome. So, all right, brother, thank you

so much for coming on. This was great. I think a lot of people are really going to appreciate this. No, I really enjoy it. This has been great. And if you guys ever need anything or you have any questions or whatever, just holler at me. I mean, now you know how to get ahold of me, but like, I thought that was funny. I told a couple of friends of mine, I said, yeah, this guy said it was really hard to get ahold of me. And they go, yeah, it is. You're like the only dude on social media freak. And I was just like, I was like, man, I just don't have time for it. I don't care. Yeah, good for you. Yeah, you shouldn't care. Who cares? I know. I like

meeting people, though, so that's kind of the detriment is I don't get to meet, you know, people. But luckily, I got to meet all you guys, so. Glad to meet you, too, brother. You bet. Let me know if you need anything. Thank you, Andy. Thank you. All right. See you, guys. Bye. Bye, dude.

That was cool. What do you think? What? I just think we should start a supplement company now. I don't... As soon as possible. A horse supplement company. This isn't... Well, we already have our marketing plan.

This shit isn't clean and you'll never look plan you you uh this shit isn't clean and um you'll never look like us what about the hole in the wall supplement hole in the wall supplement yeah it's like the russian let's put the hole oh wow i like that i like it's my idea it can be called the putin that's the name of our that's the name of our... It'll be called Good Luck Supplements. It's like, what does that mean? It's like, you'll never look like me. And it'll just be a four-leaf clover as the logo.

That's our tagline. It's good. It's good. Yeah. It's got to be a different color than green. I went down the rabbit hole yesterday of uh of uh looking up the definition of daddy issues oh boy what do you what do you got it's just it's just fascinating to me how many people don't have any leniency for the liver king

like all of a sudden treat people the way you want to be treated is thrown out the door all these health experts and people who claim to be health experts on the internet obviously their their desire to help people has has limits right as soon as you see someone i mean clearly the liver king has some sort of fucking mental health issues i watched joe rogan's thing joe rogan tries to watch the apology liver king says and he never even gets to the end of the apology and he says he'll never have liver king on and yet he spent fucking 10 hours talking about him on the internet and and it's it's just like it's all everything is so um hypocritical might be too much but it's it's also inconsistent there's no and people keep going back to saying well he lied we've already established that.

Of course he lied. What do you think it is that makes you think the way you do about this topic and makes everyone else do what they're doing? Don't say daddy issues. There's got to be something else. There is a – Or you can say daddy issues i mean i mean people feel validated by stepping on other people i mean at the at the deeper at the deeper levels people feel validated they obviously feel hurt they there's something that they're going through where they feel instead of looking at themselves they're they at themselves, they're insistent on looking at him.

And there's also these people who probably at some point have a chip on their shoulder because they came clean. Because it's Sevan's friend. Maybe it's easier for him. Maybe that's a definite component of it. Maybe it's definitely… Mommy issues. It's not daddy issues. It's mommy issues. Maybe it's a component of it. And, and the, the, I'll just give you the, in the, in the nutshell, the daddy issue thing, it's, it's, um, it's your young boy.

You were hurt. You were hurt by your dad. At some point, you carry that with you and you throughout your whole life, you put other men on pedestals trying to fulfill that void, but always setting those men up for failure so you can keep reliving the cycle of men who upset you and who don't live up to your expectations. I disagree, Nick. I disagree completely. I disagree. Getting caught then admitting is not coming clean. I disagree completely I think I disagree getting caught then admitting is not coming clean I I disagree completely and and then not only that let's say you're right well then then what's the

end goal what's the end what does he have to do what what is what is what is he I don't know I don't know damned if you don't like ever I mean I don't think i'm perfect that's maybe why i i don't i don't have a um i only try to control what i can control i only try to control me i think that's the pathway to happiness i think that's the pathway to being an alpha male i think that's the pathway to being strong i think that's the pathway to being a good example and when you go down this path of um uh there's this other argument that like hey he he's really um upset a lot of people and he's misled a lot of kids dude i could say that about any of those fucking people i was in a fucking restaurant the other day and ESPN was playing commercials where Joe Rogan got his start through the UFC and that kind of shit. And all they show are commercials that sell Wendy's, Pfizer commercials.

I can blame all of that. They all took fucking blood money. And they do it knowingly and they still haven't apologized. Yeah, and that's another reason. He freely admits he's on TRT and he says he has no issue. Of course. And that's why also he can be – that's why also maybe he should have more compassion and see the difficulty in admitting it. Yeah. There's nothing more someone can do at that point. Would there be a similar apology for bringing your friend's mom? You get caught. I mean, what are the options? What does he have to do so that you can let go of the fact that that um that you're upset at him there might be a threshold for how many times you can

forgive a person and even then once you like decide to stop forgiving them you can probably just be like all right they're gonna do their own thing i just know what's gonna i just know what to expect at this point so let's say he takes two weeks all right and then gonna do their own thing i just know what's gonna i just know what to expect at this point so let's say he takes two weeks all right and then he lied about his apology all right and then he does something else it's like all right this is what the liver king does we get it i'm just gonna like let it filter through my head the way i want to let me tell you seem to be very upset like let me tell you a story when you stub stub your toe, what are you going to do with it? I had, in a previous life, I had two girlfriends. And one of the girlfriends, maybe four girlfriends, maybe six.

And one of the girlfriends at the time took my, I can't remember exactly how she found out, but I think she went through my emails or my text messages or something, and she found out about the other girl. And I felt this immense sense of fucking relief, and I felt bad for her because I was free, and I was like, I'm never doing that again. And I'm like, God, I'm so sorry you have to go through this because now it's on her. Now she's hurt and I'm free. I'm free. I'm free. What were you going through up until that point? How long was it going on for? And like, what was this? What was your head space about the two of them? I just, I thought I was, I thought that I, in order to keep, I, in order to keep them both, I needed to tell, to lie to them. I needed to hide them from each other, which I quickly learned you don't have to do. And so I was relieved because I no longer had to lie, but I felt horrible because now they were in pain.

The implied message from the liver king is live a life like me and you get the results i have received thus when you deny it multiple times then justify his usage and then justify his usage in the apology you call it justify you i agree with what you're saying but you call it justify and and first of all you look at the origin story of why he started it and and and i was trying to get him on the podcast before he was the liver king and doing that because I heard about this father out there who had completely changed his lifestyle to save his kid from autoimmune diseases. And I was originally trying to get him on my original podcast was called Meet the Parents. And I was told that he was really shy and uncomfortable and had never talked publicly and was really, you know, quite insecure about speaking publicly.

And so he comes out and at the end he basically says, and hey, do you not think, do you not think that the vast majority of these people who are on steroids are grossly insecure about their bodies? Do you think that they're, like he said, hey, I have really low self-esteem at the end of that. He said, he said, he said, I have really low self-esteem at the end of that he said he said he said i have really low self-esteem at the end of that um uh video and that's why i did all this i picked up on that in those emails i made that video on him the big thing i picked out is that he no more no less than twice or three times brought up the fat on his lower back yeah that's that's that's that's nuts but that there's a ton of men like that i'm not asking you to justify it i'm not saying that he didn't lie

i'm just saying what if what if the people what would what would the role model have been if joe rogan would have been compassionate to him then what would the message have been to society what if he would have taken the high road? I suppose that's a double-edged sword because the one route you're saying, take them down, no compassion. And on the other route you're saying, we will all forgive you no matter what you do.

I'm terrified of my back fat at the beach. I'm so glad I can't see it all the mirrors slivers they're slivers um uh he has mental health issues seven should sponsor an awareness 5k walk anything no no no a barbarian you got to sponsor a barbarian. If you even know what that is, it's a liver King thing. Okay, here we go. I like, let's be honest. Liver King's whole deal is that he lives an extreme lifestyle. I would, I'm going to let that slide, but I see where you're going. I don't know if I a hundred percent agree, but yeah. Okay. Let's go with that.

That results in his phenomenal body. Then it's found out it's well thought out lie. He gets what he gets. Ah, no. Sure. He, yeah agree. I'm not going to argue that he gets what he gets. I'm arguing the fact that it's not best – that the way people are reacting only hurts themselves more. I'm arguing the fact that hating on him, the way people are, especially high profile people, is not good for themselves. It's not good for society and that they know better, that they had a missed opportunity to look at things deeper and they're not. Yeah, and here's another thing. Rogan should know better. The mob came for him and then they made him apologize. I thought about going down that road, too. I stumbled upon a video also about something about Joe Rogan's health.

About something called Palumbo gut or something. Ooh, that's GH gut. Yeah, that basically Derek, it's interesting that him and Derek are friends. Derek from plates and dates, dates and more dates. More plates, more dates. More plates, more dates. MPMD. So clever.

More plates, more dates. Meaning like you work out more and you get more beaver? You know, conveniently enough, I never realized that more plates, more dates. MPMD. MG is a doctorate initial, isn't it? That's completely on accident, I'm sure. And he also is not a doctorate initial, isn't it? That's completely on accident, I'm sure. And he also is not a doctor, but it's creative and convenient.

I didn't think about the liver king one minute in my day until the Sevan podcast. It's not so much the liver king that needs to be thought about. It's just a tremendous opportunity for people to look at themselves and about what they stand for. Good point. I keep going back and looking at that podcast, that video that you made comparing him and, and Katrin. And it's so, it's fascinating to me.

Half the people did not even get what you were saying. And so they're attacking you. Like, like you're holding a candle up to read a book and they're yelling at you that you're an arsonist, an arsonist. Like you're going to burn the forest down. It's like, no, I'm just trying to read a book and they're yelling at you that you're an arsonist. Don't light it on fire. Yeah, you're going to burn the forest down.

It's like, no, I'm just trying to read a book. It's like, dude, all he's saying is that this guy stood for something and put his ass out on the line. And what do all these other people stand for? They don't stand for anything except what their sponsors tell them they stand for. This many people know about the liquor thing. And they'll switch from anything to anything to anything there's nothing better than a friend who's done you wrong let me repeat that again there's nothing better than a friend who's done you wrong

and when you have compassion and forgive that friend they will you will have a loyal you will the that relationship will change for a net positive the vast majority of times unless your friend's a heroin addict then he's going to keep stealing your shit to get his high i really want to send you something i really want you to play it because i think you're going to really really like it okay it it. Cause I think you're going to really, really like it. Okay. It's in relation to everything we're talking about. I'm working on it.

To be honest, it's hard to know where Hiller is heading to most of his takes, but I enjoy them anyway. It is, um, that's part of the thing, man. I don't want you to know.

It keeps you engaged. He's weaving more and more. He's really taking some risks and weaving more and more, um, and, and weaving more and more um and and deeper uh um what's the word i'm looking for uh analogies what's the thing play allegories he started hillar's turning into fucking plato everything's like turning to the allegory of the cave not plato not the plato the philosopher not plato like the gushy shit around my back. Plato.

Plato. Kyle, it sounds like a lot of people stand for honesty, and when someone like Liver King comes out and says he stands for a lifestyle, that ends up being a lie. That's the thing. Yeah, I do. But I don't think that you can say that he stood up for a – you know, a lot of people were upset at Greg because they didn't think he did CrossFit. Like they're upset at the –

I said it in a private chat. Okay. If you're curious. It's funny. I don't know if it's funny. That's the thing. It's wild. Yeah.

It's cool. It's clear. And I will say this. I want to keep repeating this. What Michael said, I do have a relationship with the Liver King. So, obviously. But listen to this. I had an amazing relationship this. What Michael said, I do have a relationship with the liver King. So, so obviously, but listen to this. I had an amazing relationship with Katrin too. Oh yeah. We played this on the live Colin show. This is great.

Did you fuck? Yeah. Yeah. This is great. No, no, we can play it again. Let's play it again. I'm going to go pee while we play it. All right. This message is for the liver King. Fuck you. You almost had me. I've been watching your videos for over a year now. Eating liver, eating testicles, not showering, not wiping when you shit. And I finally had a breakthrough.

Over Thanksgiving dinner, right after I had my seventh deviled egg, I thought, what am I doing? My ancestors were not doing this. My grandfather may have had three or four tops, but they weren't eating this many. And I told my family, I said, 2023, I'm going ancestral. I'm doing it. And for the first time in my life, my dad was proud of me. And I know that because he put down his Kentucky gentleman and said, son, for the first time in my life, I'm proud of you. And not a fucking week later, it comes back to you're not natty.

I can't even look at a diet plan or a gym membership without feeling absolute betrayal. You are no king. You're the liver bitch fuck you i thought that was so funny amazing it's so well done i couldn't tell if he was kidding until the daddy hey that's good for you i mean that's your's your thing, right? My dad looked at me and said, this is the first time in my life I'm proud of you. The world's always looking for a scapegoat. Look at this. Look at, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Contextualize, contextualize COVID. The number of people who died under the age of 45 who got COVID is probably in

the United States is, well, let's go under 19. Cause I know it's for sure is fewer than the number of people who got COVID is probably in the United States is, well, let's go under 19 because I know it's for sure, is fewer than the number of people who will die falling down the stairs today in the United States. 12,000 people die falling down the stairs every day in the United States. More people will die- You should remove all stairs. Yeah, right. More people will die today from falling down the stairs in the United States than kids who've died under the age of 19 from COVID. Caleb's looking it up right now. He loves to prove me wrong.

So basically you take 12,000 divided by 365 and you get 48 or something like that. Right? I don't know if that math's right. Did they have COVID while they're falling? Because then technically they died of COVID. Great question. Great question. The thing is this, that's the part that people are, people are not good at figuring out relative risk or contextualizing things. And, uh,

I don't know if I've ever said this anywhere. That's exactly what's happened with the liver King. Say that again. That drives me fucking nuts. Both of my grandparents died within a week one another uh my grandpa had dementia it was like a slow progression to the point where he just sat there for basically a year and then my grandma not on papa german uh german polish saying of them uh she had stage three stomach cancer that she didn't know of until like the last month of him having it or of my grandpa's five-year dementia and they both got covid and then a week later they passed and they died of covid and i it drove me fucking nuts. Yeah.

I've seen what had been happening with my grandpa for five years and stage three cancer. And you can like, you can see her stomach. It like descended one day, all of a sudden it did. And then, uh, and then one,

and then they had like the nurses come into their house to check on them. And they had gotten COVID likely from one of the travel nurses. Who knows how they had gotten it, but that's what they had passed from. But that's not what they freaking passed from. So, yeah, make sure you take all the stairs out of everyone's houses because in case you fall while having COVID, you'll probably die from COVID. It was nuts. They can always say it.

I'm looking for that video where Derek – I'm looking at that video where Derek – I'm looking at that video where Derek... I guess Joe's talked about his HGH gut also. I guess he's insulin resistant. I wonder if Joe's type 2 diabetic. It was really bad in the picture on that thumbnail. His HGH gut. Oh, yeah, yeah.

I sent that to you, right? Yeah, I've seen that whole video. That was how Derek got on the show i'm sure i think joe probably saw it he's like who's this guy oh he's pretty cool oh and then basically said hey i had him on the vaccine revived me i heard that's how that happens they've been using it wrong the whole time using what wrong they use the vaccine to bring you back to life i want to um i want to show you a little bit of a video if you guys don't mind a couple days ago i was talking about how greg glassman gave away a minimum of 1 000 um one year subscriptions to affiliates that he paid for out of pocket meaning he would run into story he would run into someone like, no, no, this one's a little

different. We'd run into someone at, you know, at a restaurant somewhere at the buffet, they'd be like 200 pounds overweight. And Greg would be like, Hey, you should try one of my dreams. They'd say, okay. And then, uh, I'm giving the cliff notes. And then Greg would tell me, Hey, sign this person, get this person's phone number. Then either me or Greg's assistant would call and they would be, uh, we'd sign them up at a, let's say at Andrew's gym for three months. And if they wanted to keep going, Greg would pay for up to a year. Some people he paid for fucking five years. And I w and I was saying about how, I bet you Greg's given away and he would pay for that out of his own money, out of his own personal money. And I was saying that he's probably done anywhere between 1 million and

$10 million of those because minimum he's done a thousand maybe he's done up to five thousand fuck i don't know but this was something that uh that crossfit health published um oh it's on crossfit.com's youtube channel i was very pleased to see this this was published how do you know when something's published? Oh, 15 hours ago. You go to the barbell spin. I'm going to pull this up here and show you this. God, who knows? I wonder if CrossFit's going to ding me for this. Let's see. Can you guys hear it? Yeah. You could hear it? Yeah. You could hear it?

Yes. I actually started CrossFit at the age of 61. And I will attribute that to. She started CrossFit at the age of 61. She'll attribute it to. Meeting Greg Glassman. Really? And so both Greg Glassman and I were speaking at an event in Nashville where I live.

It was called Health Further. Do I have to keep pausing it? You should. So she meets Greg at an event. Saw Greg take apart a poor Coca-Cola guy that he was on stage with. No surprise there. Greg destroyed some guy from coca-cola on stage um and then greg and i were both on the main stage and we were both in the green room and so i congratulated him on taking this poor guy apart um and then i listened to greg again and then so then so they were both speakers at some event in, it sounds like Nashville or

somewhere in Tennessee. And I lost my mind. And Greg came off the stage and I said, tell me, do you have any programs for people that are 60 and up? So she heard Greg speak and now she's asking him, do you have programs for people who are 60 and up? he said of course we do give me your card and he took my card um and at the time i worked for hewlett packard and i was in charge of our global health care practice so she works for hewlett packard one of the largest companies in the world she's in charge of their global health and she hears greg speak and she fucking loses her mind she says it this is a fucking health expert. It's so cool.

She's telling the story. And so he took my card and he said, I'll get back to you. And here's what I'll do. I'll pay for your first six months. I'll pay for your first six months. Of course he would. Do you think she needs that money?

No. He only helped old white women. No, that's not the point of the story. Greg would do this for anybody. Fucking anybody. One year, I know I've told this story before. We were in Madison.

And we were trying to slip in through one of the back gates. And it was Greg and I and like four or five other people, some people on the security team. And a guard there who was, shit you not 400 pounds he looked like his shirt just looked like he was wearing a sheet wouldn't let us in and greg was really sweet to him and greg's like hey this is this is my event i'm paying for all this like this is all like out of my like bank account like my i'm paying for this and the guy's like sorry you're not on the list so while we waited for like johnny mac or someone to come over and let us in um he tells he he convinces the guy to fucking do crossfit and give him a fucking free membership uh i don't know what a hype man is but he is a very um

you don't know what a hype man is. Are you out of your mind? No. What's a hype man. You basically follow someone around and you only talk well of them. Are you like, get up? Like if you were to walk into a bar, it's like,

do you not know who this guy is? I have to fucking narrate it because CrossFit will fucking ding me. They've reported me before for showing their shit for more than seven seconds, Nick. Trust me. I don't want to fucking interrupt either. Trust me. Would you rather I don't and then I get dinged and my station gets turned down, turned off?

Sevan is this lady's hype man. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's fine. Wait, what was that definition of hype man I was too busy listening to read it is it good does it sum up what I said like do you not know who this guy is it's Greg freaking Glassman

Greg told me he was going to come on the show yesterday when Dale King was on I said I'm a link I know that would have been dope how do you do how was Greg was he on no he didn't even come on i know i know i know he wasn't on i know he wouldn't come on either no i knew i didn't know he wouldn't come on i knew he was not on i i checked a handful of times

uh what was the hype man are you bringing that up caleb again or no it's a one-shot game yeah um who the uh okay as i love urban dicks did you know there's a one-shot game. Who the... Okay. Guys, I love Urban Dictionary. Did you know there's a random word generator? You can just click it and get a word of the day on here. I love this website. The tradition of the job of the hype man is to get the audience hype before the headline performer comes out on stage. His or her job

is also to keep the momentum going during the show, especially during the down times like wardrobe or set changes. Hype men usually work the side of the stage and see the audience. Throw your hands in the air all the ugly people go to the next definition that's not quite how they were using it and here we go i gotta blow things out of proportion to start a fight and say things such as personally i wouldn't take that no that's called a wife from new jersey go to the next.

Also called fluffers. Hey, I may know. Well, isn't a fluffer the person who, no, Mason, we cannot.

No, Mason, we cannot. I appreciate the, uh, what's the definition of the person between? Yeah, those are all bad. You know,

in porn, there's a person who's supposed to keep someone going between sets or acts? What is that person called? Isn't that a fluffer too? Yeah. I think that's a fluffer. They keep all the equipment polished and ready for action. They keep everything polished and loaded.

Yes, but between takes you had to keep it all going. Will Brand said, Greg's message was real and true so didn't need any juiced uh juiced mascot to help spread it to be the fastest growing chain no isn't that what the crossfit games are the juice drop the mic yes have me commentate the crossfit games please the bone the boner key the boner keeper yeah that's a fluffer kenyan said so pukie pukie was pukie was definitely juice to the gills he's gone isn't he uh didn't they cancel him i don't know i don't know what's gonna happen

to pukie with don being bad wait a minute wasn't technically the person who wrote.com workouts named pukey it was so yeah well they fired him that's true entity and as an actual true that's true you know that was one of the first things uh it's fun it's funny that that gym downstairs were um at crossfit hq that was one of the first things they did they took um we had a giant pukey on the wall, and they took pukey off the wall. So fucking weird. I would do the same thing. I know.

Fucking... You know what would be a great act of vandalism? Sneaking into CrossFit HQ and painting it back on the wall. Oh, a giant pukey? That's a good idea. How about just go to the office and... Say it again? Just get like 100 fat heads and just sneak in

and just throw it up real quick and run out every night when they paint over or take it down. God. What are fat heads? It's like a giant life-size, like a six foot sticker okay and put them up i was thinking i like just getting a pukey stencil that's pretty big like three feet in diameter and just sneaking over to dave's house in the middle of the night and spraying it on his hood and then doing the same thing to don falls car that's you a sticker is no big deal man you can just take it down

next year the crossfit games here's what we're going to do we're going to get 500 pukey stickers and we're just going to post them like you remember the little biden gas sticker like the gas station stickers like i did that we're just going to hide pukey stickers all over the games and they're going to lose their minds yes uh pukey is the most is is very professional one of my trigger words professional it'll be like the ceo shirts this year the thousand pukies with california hormones oh shit logo on the chest that's a great idea for wad zombie he should make He should make a Pukie card, playing card.

We need a six-foot sticker. Because he can do stickers. I've seen his stickers. They're good. But a card would be good. Just like the Vellner sticker, the Daniel Brandon card. That would be a great card. He needs stats. I wonder what Pukiekey stats are what's his fran time

juice to the gills california california hormones one second faster than noah's yes is pukey's fran time known for perfect range of motion ceo on the front pukey on the back of the shirt i wonder what the what the legality of that is i think that i think i heard some rumors that um the general counsel uh marshall brennan brennan brennan brennan was trying to um find the original artwork so that they could trademark that shit i should call it all 500 pounds on all lifts. You got a 500 pound strict press and clean and jerk. Hey, what happened after you did those 76 pull-ups?

My lats were sore. Oh, they were? And that's been one of the issues you've had with California Hormones is you haven't been able to get yourself sore. Correct. I was sore. That's awesome. They're better now. They're they're better biceps are better we're all good we've been working it was actually a pretty quick turnaround i was worried i was going to get rabdo i'm like oh god here we go i did i don't know if i told you i did a workout that morning with 120 chest of our pull-ups in it

and then i did that one so the 200 on the day was a quite a few oh but wait wait a second you did 120 chest of bars in a workout before you did those 76 77 yeah it was broken into 10 rounds though holy shit 12 12 12 rounds though uh life is rx is about the only pukey stuff still out there by the way uh you can get sweatshirts the um ceo sweatshirts and they're very nice i i can i can't believe you chopped their hair off i know i can't i didn't do it my wife did it were you informed i blame her i was informed i wasn't was it just i loved their hair now that all all of them yeah yeah okay I loved their hair.

Did you cut all of them? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Sore subject, Taylor. Why is my show sore subject? Man, that's all you do. We talk about subjects that you don't want to talk about.

If you scroll back down, I will tell you which one is really a nice fitting sweatshirt. Keep going. That one right there. Sebon CEO Men's Splash. Oh, no, not Spl splash ready keep going they're all nice they all i wear them all but that one that unisex sweatshirt i look buff in that i mean no one's told me that but i think i look no one's told me that but i think it looks tapered is it thick or is it like cali thick uh the hoodies are definitely thick the hoodies are definitely thick it's not thin it's not like it's not like um it's not thin that's for sure god i vindicate sweatshirts that i got recently are awesome

um oh they are the the newest like yeah just like the no rep with everything cut out because can't use that anymore but they're they're really soft let me see let me see i don't have it in here maybe uh beaver will bring it up i cannot um stand people who bring their kids onto the podcast i'm like dude no one should be this fucking cute except you i can't stand that shit. Me either. What do you mean? He's just sitting there. I know, but it's just like, no one wants to see him. It's an issue when the kid's interrupting, but that one, the top right, that one's sweet.

And Alexis stole my sweatpants, so I don't even know what they feel like. That looks used, Hiller. It feels used, but that's a good thing what is that shit on the back that's like a little trail of bats oh that's nice that's nice i yeah don't zoom in caleb don't zoom in why i see how cool because i don't want him to see how cool that is that's really cool okay yeah i really like it it's super comfortable i was actually in vegas when he presented that with me and i was staying with jeff one of the judges and i go what do you think of this he goes that's dope i'm like all right travis we have confirmation it's cool is this really true jimmy kimmel brought his daughter on stage to get people vaccinated are you fucking kidding me

his daughter on stage to get people vaccinated? Are you fucking kidding me? Broken in. I don't know anything about that. Who's Jimmy Kimmel? No one you need to know. He's a loser. Matt Burns, I love the boys cut.

Handsome young man. Thank you. Yes, let's see it. Yes, sir. What kind of pants you got under there? The dancer pants? yes let's see it yes sir what kind of pants you got under there the dancer pants oh yeah most jacked legs on the planet those guys

crazy legs one arm push ups and everything as rxceo shirts athletic cut I don't know what athletic cut is but they they those make me all the all these shirts kind of make me look buff they don't hang on my on my muffin and they're just like snug on my arms and and on my shoulders not snug snug is not the right word but then it hangs off of my stomach so i don't look like a fucking chablito it's i had this laundry list of things i think i

sent it to you too that i was going to ask andy forgetting that he was only supplements right which is fine laundry list um tomorrow who do we have Tanner oh tomorrow we have on Tanner um Shuck Shunk Shuck and then on the on Thursday we have uh J.R. Howell on uh just gonna chat with him and learn about Mr. Howell so Tanner then

J.R. and then on the oh I have nothing scheduled on the 9th you know what I'm doing on the 9th? I'm speaking to a bunch of guys. I know, but he's not coming on the show. Oh, shit. That's right. We probably have to pull that off the schedule.

I'm going to speak at his school to a bunch of boys at his school. Maybe girls, too. I don't know. Mine? No, you don't go to school. School's for tools. Hiller went to school schools for tools Hitler went to school who?

I said schools for tools and he goes Hitler went to school burn Chris Burchfield Sevan next time a woman tells you you have a dad body you should tell her no you are a Cali thick tell her no you are a Cali thick oh that her no you are cali thick oh that's nice dude dude you want to get actually thick my dad was a dude who didn't wear a mask he didn't even put up with that not even for one second and he said he was walking

through the grocery store one day he told me this two days ago i was at i had dinner at his house he said he's walking through the aisle he was grabbing some paper plates and some woman goes, did you forget your mask? And he turns, he goes, did you forget your makeup? Oh, I was like, yeah,

I was like, dad, what the fuck? Oh, fuck. Yes. Dad. And he goes,

you leave me alone. I'll leave you alone. Tell your dad. He needs to, I'm really disappointed in him for being so, for not being more compassionate. I was like, Dad, what is wrong with you? He's like, what is wrong with her?

I'm like, all right, all right, new subject. I've reached out to Brooke Entz, and I haven't been able to get in touch with her. I haven't tried too hard. Maybe I should keep trying. But I always think that if I try and people don't respond that they just don't want to come on the show, maybe that's just my own insecurity. And then you need to get bedress on. I know that that is a, uh, I should have done that when I had the blue check Mark,

cause I was in communication with him. I dropped the ball on that, but we have a lot of mutual friends. So, uh, maybe I'll do that. Who's bedress, uh, gym gym owner gym chain owner and a businessman he kind of rolls with like the big dogs in socal what about friday for a hill or fit review show don't we have one scheduled oh do we well i'm i'm in if not i thought i had gotten a text from either you or suza about that did you respond i don't see you on the calendar i'm in hey mason that that old podcast okay cool awesome with hunter yeah let's ask hunter let's get hunter on um you liked that podcast i did with brooke here's the thing with that podcast

she'll she will just keep talking and talking and talking and so people got really upset at me at how much i was, I was interrupting her, but I was trying to keep her on track. People either loved it or hated it. I think what happened is she has so many fans and they didn't come to see me at all. So they were upset that I was even there on my own podcast. Hey,

is, is podium third party tested? So I don't have an, can we go to their website? Caleb, is Podium third-party tested? Can we go to their website, Caleb? Is that okay? Usually, if you are, you post about it because I don't think it's that cheap. We should have asked him how much it was. I think we did. He said $1,000 per supplement per athlete, but he didn't give a number for a company.

I think it's like $10 or $20 when you start. As I recall, I thought i saw somewhere there we go podium maybe about the brand i don't know but when i see the labels like that i start getting flashbacks of bigger faster stronger of the guys just making the shit in the garage when i see someone just like licking the back of the guys just making the shit in the garage. When I see someone just like licking the back of the labels and sticking them on the jars, maybe down at the bottom. Oh, about the brand. Yeah.

Let's go there. His podium third party tested. I'm looking. God, you think that would- You look there. I'll look somewhere else. I'm going to guess they're not because it would be um it would be front and center it says right here podium products are fully disclosed there's third party tested does it say who does it no i'm looking

oh transparency it's on the front page go to the front page and then go to on the left side up a little bit down down down down down down down down down yeah also put your email in right there on the left transparency putting a fully disclosed third-party test and manufactured using gmp oh but what we just learned is that we know that there's no metal in there. That's good. Yeah. So that's not. Okay. So that's very interesting.

I wonder why they haven't done that. They know better than that. Well, maybe. Unless our information is wrong. They do, but it's expensive. No way. Andy Holmes isn't a liar. But now we know. We've become more educated.

How many people are alive on here? 300 people now know there's no metal. GMP stands for Good Manufacturing Practice, and that's basically everything has to go through that, right? Correct. However, if you were to throw heroin into a pool, we wouldn't know if it's in there. Right.

That's what I remember. That was good. Okay, so Riley says this is just legal wording. Okay. Well, when Matt comes on the podcast, I'll ask him when they're going to get there. Informed sport. Informed sport or NSF or whatever. There's another thing I thought about with that. What? Fuck.

I hate when things slip my mind. Whatever. Okay. They're all... They're all swarming him. Who can do the most push-ups amongst the three? Probably Avi.

He can do all the on his fingertips, on his fingers, one-arm push-ups. He's a party trick. Walking party trick. You know spiegel is giving you 40 bucks today oh really okay sorry okay uh thank you everyone uh sorry spiegel i missed the first uh show ending we will talk to you that's when spiegel's like bored and like all right shut the fuck up uh well i think it happened right after andy had left the first time yeah spiegel can pull the trigger a little early sometimes okay guys uh thank you

very much we'll see you tomorrow with uh mr shunk tanner shunk and uh trainer extraordinaire and then we have jr howell uh a guy that i've built uh started building quite a nice friendship with over the last year and a half and then on friday we have hiller fit on and maybe we'll reach out to hunter mcintyre and get to the bottom of who would win in a fitness competition. Caleb, thank you. Bye-bye. Bye.