The Sevan Podcast - #768 - Dr. Anthony Chaffee | The Better Carnivore MD

Episode Date: January 19, 2023

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uh my back is tired like it bam we're live i um not yesterday but the day before i had brian friend on midday and to like just kind of like raise my awareness when when i had him on i did 300 air squats before the show started and not like crazy fast but like but just fast right 15 minutes maybe like my wife does it in 10 minutes but anyway so so then in the evening i did the i did uh 10 burpees on the minute and then the next minute i did 10 deadlift with 135 pounds and i did that for 20 minutes so ends up being 100 burpees, 100 deadlifts. I did that like at 8 or 9 at night. And then yesterday, just the whole day.

It's not like so bad where it feels like my back's going to snap. But it's just my back's just tired. Like I don't want to sit up. Do you know that feeling? I can't tell if the muscle's tired or if it's just crazy engaged. I can't tell if it's just completely relaxed and I feel like just a sack of shit. Or if it's just so tight I'm trying to lay down and relax. It's weird.

I feel like taking drugs. Sometimes I'll feel like that after like Murph or something. If I haven't done a ton of volume lately, my body will just be like super tight for no reason after doing a murph yeah or just something has super high volume if i wear a weight vest for too long i'll have some weird reaction to it like like like when i take it off i'll be like kind of like like you know you wear the weight vest and you feel the weight of it and then you have it on for a certain amount of time and you catch yourself starting to do this shit.

Oh, like shrugging up, shrugging and just tightening and bracing. And it's just like, and then when I, and then finally, when I take it off, I'm, uh, oh, it was Philip Kelly. Oh yeah. I need to send Sousa a, uh, it was Philip. This is the dude, Philip Kelly, who sent me that article I was just telling you about. That article is crazy. I didn't hear back from this guy. I wonder if this

guy's coming on. That'd be cool. If he didn't? If he did. I agree. That would be cool. It is 7 a.m., right? I need to text Sousa right now and tell him to schedule Philip Kelly. We need to hear what's going on.

Sousa. Can we schedule Philip Kelly? Kelly. Phillip, you know, I'm going on the 24th. I'm going to some crazy skateboarding camp thing with my kids up in Tahoe for like four days. And I wasn't going to do any shows. But we should do a show somewhere between the 24th and the 28th. Because doing a show with you will be easy. It'll be fun. Like last night's show was so easy. Holy shit.

Super chill. Oh, my God. Travis is so easy to talk to you know it's crazy when i talk to him some i feel like i'm talking to like the gangster version of jordan peterson he's so freaking smart he is so smart he understands just how human beings work it's kind of crazy i don know. He doesn't really have that. He doesn't really give off that vibe initially. No, no. Uh-uh.

But man, he's like a master of human shit. Human behavior. Sure, Seban. I'll hop on with you for a while while your kids are at Woodward good dude Damien just taking one for the team he's in Australia is he

I couldn't tell if he's in Australia I heard it I played a video of his chick and his chick spoke Australian and I got the impression that like maybe he did some sort of residency there here's the thing that i was tripping on there's no way this dude took the injection there's no fucking way hey if you're a doctor can you administer your own

injection what's that what because then you could just fire it off onto the floor right yeah i think i mean at least for myself i'm not a doctor obviously i've tried to like you're like oh i'll just do myself and like no you have to have somebody do it for you because i administer stuff too but interesting yeah i don't know i think that i think you have to have somebody else administer it for you so it's legal for hillar to shoot himself up with roids but a doctor can't give himself the vaccine yeah yeah that seems a little backwards i'm not at home in his garage with a dirty needle it'd be similar to like somebody administering insulin to themselves i think oh yeah yeah it should be like somebody with diabetes administering insulin to themselves, I think. Oh, yeah, yeah.

It should be like somebody with diabetes administering insulin. Dylan, Sevan, you see Hiller's video on Annie this morning. When I was, it popped up as I perused over some YouTube station or something. It popped up. I was like, oh, Nelly. Oh, Nelly. There was all sorts of talk about Annie not getting full range of motion at Wadapalooza or something. And people didn't like the way she was doing her burpees.

And I talked to some people about it. I'm like, you really think something was wrong with her burpees? You know, synchro burpees? And they're like, well, dude, if it looks different than everyone else's, something's wrong with it. And I'm like, I, dude, if it looks different than everyone else's, something's wrong with it. I'm like, I can't, I can't get behind that.

I can't, I can't. Everyone talks about the spirit of things. And like, do you remember like when they were jumping over the bar burpees and someone had changed those weights to those little weights? Yeah. Or,

or the 2008 or nine games, Matt Murski was bouncing the clean clean 155 i i i'm fine either way i'm fine busting those people for it but i'm also not i just see it as innovation how about the guy the fos i just use the fosbury flop as the example everyone was jumping over the high jump like a jackass and this guy just one year showed up at the olympics he wasn't even a high jumper he was an engineer and he starts doing that you know flopping over turning his back to the bar uh it was skipping over the dumbbell during the burpees and chase mentioned it during the broadcast i mean both her feet were in the air at the same time right

so so do both your feet have to be in the air at the same time or do both your feet were in the air at the same time, right? So, so do both your feet have to be in the air at the same time or do both your feet have to come off the ground? Now, let me tell you something. I do a lot of jumping in the garage with my kids and I, if they don't jump off the ground with both feet, I tell them, I said, Hey, you know, you both feet didn't come off the ground at the same time. And I, and you know, it's, it's easier to like, if we're, if you're jumping to a small target, like from one, like a box onto a balance beam, and you take a step jump instead of a bound jump, it's definitely easier to take the step jump. It's less impressive looking. It's easier to navigate the obstacle that you're jumping across.

I wonder what spikes your heart rate more. I'm guessing bounding, right? Two feet jump? Two foot jump? guessing bounding right two feet jump two foot jump yeah probably a two foot jump because the one foot jump if you're jumping with one foot it's just like it's just like gravity you can just lean in your body kind of you know what i mean it's like falling jumping with one foot instead of two feet is just like i mean i'm no kinesiologist but it's just leaning hi anthony hey how's it going awesome good to see you brother you too yeah sorry i'm running a second late but uh no worries i'm trying to grab something here i um all right anthony are is your last name chaffee or chafee chafee chafee anthony chafee

are you related to the um arm wrestler uh chafee i think his name is daniel chafee chafee anthony chafee are you related to the um arm wrestler uh chafee i think his name is daniel chafee no i don't know if i've come across him um yeah but i mean potentially it's not it's not a common name so probably somewhere back there he's one of the best in north america maybe top i don't know five heavyweights i think no no not daniel chafee. Is it Daniel Chafee? Are you looking him up? Uh, Chafee. And I know the guest I had on last night, I know his arm wrestled him. Travis is definitely arm wrestling. Oh, Dave Chafee. Do you know Dave Chafee? No, I don't think so.

Okay. Hey, are you, are you American? Yes, I am. Yeah. I moved to Australia just a few years ago. Just, just for fun, really. And you're kind of picking up a little bit of an accent, maybe? I hope not. Maybe. Well, if you're going to get one, that's the one to get. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely didn't want to pick up the Irish accent. That was a bit too harsh for me. Did you study over there?

That one's a bit too harsh for me. Did you study over there? I did. Yeah. I lived over there for six years. Yeah. So I went to, I did graduate medicine over there and then worked over there as a doctor for a few years. And then, and are you, and then did you go back to school?

Are you studying to be a neurosurgeon? So yeah. So in residency. So it's yeah, sort of, sort of professional training i guess you could call it so yeah anytime you're going into like you finish medical school then you if you want to specialize then you need to do a residency program and what is a neurosurgeon uh so just just operating on brains and spines really so you're just doing uh everything yeah so everything on the neurological system wow yeah it's kind of interesting um that you're you're kind of doing um you're going both ways simultaneously and

neurosurgery surgery performed on the nervous system all right especially the brain and spinal cord wow you know what you're doing yeah uh it's kind of interesting right because in one way you're you're going into some of the most detailed ways of fixing a human being most uh you know i don't know maybe myopic is the word or focused or or invasive and then in another way the other half of your practice is going the least invasive most uh like i guess here's another way let me reframe that one way the responsibility is crazy on the doctor and the other way it's like hey here's the tools fix yourself well yeah well that's that's definitely true and and you're right neurosurgery is hyper specialized and you're only working on a very very small frame of patients and

then people generally subspecialize within that as well so there might be someone who's just you know really focused on like vascular neurosurgery so they're dealing with clipping aneurysms and removing um abms or like different sorts of vascular abnormalities that can bleed and cause all sorts of problems or we're doing bypasses you know you have bypass surgery for the heart where you can do that for the brain as well um and while it's not moving like the heart is and beating and things like that the vessels are much much smaller so you have to do this under a microscope and um you know you're putting in sort of like you know 20 25 sutures uh they're like literally like the needles are the size of a splinter and you have this little thread of

cobweb coming off of the back of it so it's uh it's a very very intricate work and so some people will be even more sub-specialized within that subspecialty. And then in functional medicine, you know, healing people just through their diet, it's very broad strokes. I mean, this is just broadly, this is how the body works and this is how to make it work optimally and you're in charge of that. So like maybe someone got a bad batch of government mandated drugs and they had some clotting and someone like you could go in and maybe undo the clot yes sometimes yeah so if someone has a story i just had to stuff that in there and it was a

little forced i felt like it was a little forced but i had to sorry well but you know but it's true though i mean like you know someone has a stroke or something like that, but like the radiology, uh, they, they take a lot of the endovascular treatments where they're snaking up little lines and, and, uh, pulling out clots and things like that. But, you know, I've seen a lot of patients who have come in, uh, you know, close in close proximity to, to certain medications and had massive, massive brain bleeds. Oh my goodness.

And unfortunately many of them didn't survive. Other ones had platelet dysfunction that couldn't be corrected. And so they weren't even operable anyway, because they would have just bled out on the table. And then other people didn't get hit quite so bad. And thankfully they were able to weather weather uh the storm and survive but um no it's very very scary uh some of the things you see in in medicine certainly in neurosurgery anthony where were you born uh california so i grew up in i was sort of uh in santa barbara area

and then i moved up to kirkland washington just outside outside of Seattle when I was about 10. Okay. So always, I guess, always on the West coast, I went to a UCSB. Oh, cool. Yeah. Nice. I did undergrad there for seven years. I lived in Isla Vista for 10 years. Oh, nice. Awesome. Yeah. I love that area. Yeah. It always feels like home every time I go back to Santa Barbara. It was absolutely fantastic. And okay. And so you end up, uh, and at what point do you get interested in, um, what were your parents like? Are your parents, uh, were your parents hippies? No, no, they were, they were, they were very academic. They, um, they, yeah, my dad was a physicist. He, he was a physicist, physicist at the Lawrence Livermore Radiation Laboratory in Berkeley. Yeah. And worked with Louis Alvarez on his Nobel Prize winning work on subatomic particles and, you know, cracking the atoms and studying all that in the bubble chamber.

And so he was, you know, on the ground doing that. So he was on that team. And then got into, well, I mean, they sort of developed computers, you know, the physicists sort of developed computer science in order to run their experiments. And so he got more and more into computer science and then started, you know, taking that off as a career. And then my mom was a musician. She was a singer. She was an opera singer and a classical soprano. And they met while they were at Berkeley. So, my mom was doing her undergrad. My dad was doing his doctorate and working at the Lawrence Lab. And they just hit it off. And it was kind of sweet. They met on

Valentine's Day 58 years ago. And they've been together ever since. And so, yeah, it was very darling. And, um, but yeah, they're both, both very academic families. So my, my mom's father was a, was a Rhodes scholar at Oxford and did his PhD at Oxford, did his master's at Harvard and taught at both and then taught at Pomona and, um, George Washington. And, uh, he was, was the world's expert on Milton and wrote his dissertation at Oxford on Milton and, uh, and like a lot of work that he published, you know, a few years before he died that he spent 40 years working on, uh, on Milton. And so if people are interested in that, look at, look up the work by, uh, Dr. Edward Weissmiller. That's really exhaustive. There's no, there's no real better uh study than than what he put together um and then yeah and so and my you know my my grandmother and he met while they were at harvard together

and like her father was was she student there was she student there she was yeah so my grandmother went to to harvard and met while my grandfather was doing his master's. So he was doing his road scholarship at Oxford. And then he was in Germany when World War II broke out. And he had to literally flee across Europe to get away from all the border closures and invasions and things like that. And so the road scholarship at Oxford sent everyone home. And so he went back and he ended up doing a master's at Harvard. And that's where he met my grandmother. And then he ended up being a spy in the war and doing counter espionage and worked there. And he was just funny. It's just one of those family stories. He was the first ever American spy to turn and work an enemy agent against the enemy. And so he wrote a whole- Was that your grandmother grandmother did he turn your grandmother yeah i don't know yeah she might she might think so yeah they uh they ended up getting

divorced after about 25 years but so wait so he met he he he converted a spy from a german spy into an american spy yeah he was posing as a as a as a as a Frenchman. He could speak French fluently. And so he was in occupied France and pretending to be just a normal French person. And his job was to work out who the German spies were and to try to turn them against the enemy. And so he was able to do that. And so he was the first. God, talk about a scary job, dude. Yeah. Yeah.

And yeah, very crazy. And, you know, he was one of the first, maybe the first American that was trained by MI5 and MI6. And probably because of his connections at Oxford and things like that, they liked him. And so he got along really well with the British sides of things. And, yeah. And so they were doing a lot of work on on the counter-espionage side of things and he there's um they did a a sort of a story on it when it became when it became declassified uh after 50 years and it was called um operation dragoman that was the name of

it and there was a guy i forget his, but interviewed my grandfather and talked about that whole case and everything like that, sort of put it together. But it was actually still used, like his write-up for that was used in the CIA sort of training, spycraft sort of training for quite some time, but probably not used anymore. It's probably outdated, but it was used for quite a while. Yeah. Just imagine that you're trying to get someone to to flip but you have no idea i mean it's just a liar's game right i mean it's just like i would need a big bag of like mdma like as one of my primary tools to give people what a crazy i mean because you can think you're flipping someone and then last minute they they

snare you yeah and yeah exactly yeah because snare you. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Because, yeah, you really are putting yourself out there. And, you know, because you have to sort of let yourself be known that you're, you know, an enemy agent. And so they could easily, easily bust you and kill you or have you tortured. Yeah. Do you know the story of Otto Warburg over there? I know who Otto Warburg is, but i don't know his full backstory there's this book i think you would dig it it's um we had the author on the guy's name is sam apple and the book's name is

ravenous and it goes into basically you know how ot Otto was a homosexual Jew living in Germany and Hitler was just killing everybody and especially Jews and homosexuals. But he let this guy live because Hitler had a deep, deep fear of cancer, crazy fear of cancer. Really? Yeah. And so this was the guy, the father of photosynthesis. And this is the guy that discovered basically, I think one of the Nobel Prizes. He won two Nobel Prizes. Hitler didn't let him grab the second one, but the first one he won, I think, was discovering that cancer is a metabolic disease.

And then as we've seen, even though he won the Nobel Prize for it, cancer research went and lost its way and went in the wrong direction. Yeah, definitely. I mean, he wrote the seminal work i mean it was a culmination of like 20 years of work but in 1951 he wrote a paper called um i believe it was the origin of cancer and just goes into it and just shows how this is a metabolic that was actually the name of this so he was he's putting his stake in it. I didn't know that. Wow. Like he put the Otto Warburg flag in cancer. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

So he just showed that this is where cancers come from. They come from the, yeah, there you go. It comes from a dysfunction of the mitochondria. It's not a genetic disease. There are genetic changes in some cancers. Um, there are genetic changes in some cancers. However, if you look at a tumor, not every cell has the same mutations or even any mutations, but they all behave in the same way. They all behave as cancer.

And there are cancers that actually have no genetic changes at all, uh, which is quite interesting. Not everybody knows that. Not a lot of doctors know that. knows that. Not a lot of doctors know that. And I did a, I did, um, a, uh, sort of a lecture at our neurosurgical grand rounds a couple of months ago, back in October, talking about the metabolic theory of cancer and talk about Warburg's work and other, other works such as, uh, professor, um, uh, Thomas Seyfried of Boston college. And, um, you know, just showing all of this and talking about how not all cancers have any genetic changes at all. And quite a lot of people there were like,

gee, I didn't even know that. But it's... Do they say that, Anthony? Or do they say, dude, this guy's lost his way? Yeah. So that was the thing. At the end of the talk, one of the professors of neurosurgery, who was actually a professor of neurosurgery at Yale formally, he, you know, I was talking to him about what I was going to do before that. And he was, you could tell he was a bit nervous. He was like, oh, okay. All right. Well, all right. Well, okay. Well, this is a, you know, a sort of a journal club sort of thing. So just make sure that you have, you know, you know, studies and journals and things like that to discuss. And I was like, that's not, that's not a problem. I had like 30. And, um, and so after I got done with it, he, you even said, he said, Hey, you know, I, I didn't know what to think about, uh, this study, this topic. I thought it was like, wow, this is a little out there, but you know, now that I actually see it and you present presented this way and there's so much evidence behind it, like, you know, I'm, I'm really interested in this and, you know, now that I actually see it and you presented it this way, and there's so much evidence behind it, like, you know, I'm really interested in this. And,

you know, I think that you should do a study. So it was, it was doing that presentation was really an argument to try to convince my department to let me do a study with brain cancer and, you know, dietary changes. So, so a ketogenic metabolic therapy, um, which is, which actually Cedars-Sinai Medical Center uses already and has for 15 years or more and other centers have for, you know, a decade or more as well, um, to, to treat our, our GBM patients and do a larger study because there are a ton of case series and there's tons of smaller studies even randomized controlled trials with glioblastoma brain cancers which is you know the most really it's the most aggressive form of cancer that we know of um without treatment um the average life expectancy is three months

so it's that's a very very aggressive and so you know, they had very, very positive results in these smaller human trials and, you know, astounding results in all the animal models with mice and things like that. But, you know, it's still not all that known because there isn't a, you know, we have 900 patients and we all did this and it's randomized and controlled and all that sort of stuff. There are randomized control trials, but with like 20 people. So, you know, I just proposed to my department because we get anywhere from two to five glioblastoma patients a week. You know, we get big numbers because where I am in Perth, Australia, we are the only neurosurgical center for the entire state of Western Australia, which is about a third of the landmass of, of Australia. So we get everything. And, um, and so we, we see a lot of these, unfortunately, but superficial, uh, demographic when you see you're like, like, like, um, Oh, yep. It's a

Filipino overweight, uh, 62 years old. Like, is there, or, you know, like, is there, is there like something like where you see someone and you're like, yep, they, that you fit the mold? Yeah. No, I haven't, I haven't. Okay. He's like a major pattern, but most people are overweight and all will be eating carbs and sugar and things like that. But I mean, you can say that about most people.

Yeah. You can say that about anything, right? Broken bones, bad eyes. I mean, like as soon as you get overweight the falling down becomes a problem right i mean everything exponentially gets like i don't know if exponential is right but everything gets worse when you're overweight it does yeah yeah yeah i mean think about this you know just metabolic syndrome if you have metabolic syndrome you're six times more likely to develop heart disease if you have diabetes you're 10 times more likely to develop heart disease. If you have diabetes, you're 10 times more likely. So these, these things do compound and they do, uh, they do go in, in, in packs, you know,

and if you have different metabolic diseases or metabolic syndrome, you're more likely to get psychiatric disorders and things like that as well. And if you get one psychiatric disorder, you're much more predisposed to getting all the other psychiatric disorders as well. So, yeah, they do, they do run in packs. And I think that's because that these so-called diseases or chronic diseases that we're treating, like cancer, like heart disease, like diabetes, autoimmune diseases, even psychiatric diseases, that these are not diseases per se, but toxicities and malnutrition.

So a toxic buildup of species inappropriate diet and a lack of species specific nutrition, right? So namely too many plants that we did not evolve to be able to eat and detoxify properly and not enough fatty meat, which is what humans are designed to eat. Hey, do you know that study? My boss, I used to work over at CrossFit, and I work closely with the founder over there, Greg Glassman.

And he would talk about this study. He was a huge fan of Thomas Seyfried. He would, I hung out with him a few times. He would, Greg would have him around. But there was this study that I heard him talk about. I'm going to screw it up. I apologize for putting you on the spot. But basically, they took cancer cells from mice who had cancer.

And I think they took the nucleus of the cancer cell. Yeah. And they put it into cells of healthy mice that didn't have cancer. And the cancer didn't spread. Yeah. Yeah. So it goes. Sorry, go ahead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I was just going to say, and it went on from spread. Yeah, yeah. So it goes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, I was just going to say, and it went on from there. So they took- So you know that study? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. God, I love you, Anthony. Yes, yes. You're going to make me seem smart by the end of this show. Go on.

Yes, of course, this study. Yes, yes. So, yeah, so that was a nuclear transfer study. So they took the they took the nuclear, the nuclei from cancer cells with all the genetic changes, right? Because again, not all the cancer cells will have genetic changes. So they took the ones that did have genetic changes and they put those into a cell that had healthy mitochondria. And they did not behave as cancer. They could even clone like frogs and rats out of them,

right? And then they took the mitochondria out of the cancer cells because while cancer cells don't always have genetic changes, they all have damaged mitochondria, all of them. And so, and that's very important for many reasons, but they took those damaged mitochondria out and put those into a normal cell with normal healthy DNA. And it did behave as cancer and they couldn't clone it or anything like that. It just behaved very malignantly or they just died off. Um, and then they went one step further and they took, um, they took like the healthy mitochondria and put them in cancer cells it suppressed the cancer oh shit wow yeah wow so so to me i mean that's qed like that's it is proved like that's just

what's that mean qed it's a it's latin means thus it is proven thus yeah yeah of course of course of course anthony yes yeah so that's what you do at the end of like a proof or something like that. Like in school, if you did a proof, when you're done, you just tag in QED, which just means the end, you know? That is why this is the greatest podcast ever, QED, QED. Yeah, that's it. Caleb, let's try to work that into every show after, please. QED. QED.

QED. every show after please qed qed um the you you were interviewed the other day by a guy i saw it posted like two weeks ago um and he said he had autism somewhere like halfway through the interview he's like yeah i had autism a year ago i couldn't have done this interview with you. But since I'm on the carnivore diet, my shit's gotten, I unfucked myself. And I saw your face kind of light up like a big smile. And I worked with disabled adults for five years very closely. And with a lot of people with autism, their favorite drink was Coca-Cola. In hindsight, boy, I really screwed that up. But wow, did you know when you went into that interview that that guy was autistic?

No, I had no idea. But I mean, it was absolutely a delight to see because you didn't have any idea. Right. He was a little odd in the beginning. He was a little aggressive, I thought, like some kind of some weird. Yeah. But you're right. I wouldn't have guessed autistic.

No. And, you know, it's, you know, it could be, you know, any sort of, you know, strangeness could easily be chalked up to the fact that, you know, he's, you know, a bit nervous doing an interview, which is. Right. I was nervous. I was very nervous doing interviews when I first started and, you know, probably still get nervous as well. So I think it could be easily be, you know, just chalked up to nerves. I certainly didn't think anything more than that. But it was great. And it's, you know, it's something that's sort of so nice to see because this is something that people, you know, can devastate their lives or their children's lives and people feel very helpless. And it's just like, well, this is something that people can devastate their lives or their children's lives and people feel very helpless. And it's just like, well, this is just it. And we can just do the best we can. But there's proof positive that you actually have so much more control over yourself

and your children's future, especially when they're children, because your brain is still developing. Once your brain is fully developed, well, you can optimize things and you can help your brain work as well as it possibly can, which is what Jonathan was doing. It was Jonathan Griffiths. But when you're a child and your brain is still developing, that's really what autism is. It's a misdevelopment of the neurons. And there are a number of different reasons why this happens. One of them is actually carnitine. Carnitine is a non-essential amino acid, supposedly, but it is essential for some people. And you actually do benefit from getting more of it in your diet. It doesn't exist in plants. It does not exist in fungus.

So you have to get it from meat if you need it. Some kids don't produce enough or they don't produce any at all. And carnitine is integral for neuronal development so if you don't have enough carnitine your brain will not develop properly and you will develop a certain kind of autism there's multiple different kinds of autism and causes of autism that's one of them and this is why we this is one of you say some crazy shit i mean i like it's like it's not crazy to me it's, I agree 100%. Like, my wife was a complete vegan vegetarian.

She got pregnant. I took her out, and the first thing she did was order a hamburger and scarf it down. Yeah, and she's like, I don't know what I'm doing. I go, I just go with it. But she's Ashkenazi Jew. It's going to take a lot of meat to make a big Jew brain, baby. Yeah, that's it. And she knew it.

Thank God. When I hear you say that, I heard you say this yesterday in a podcast. I was like, thank God my wife didn't stick to her vegan roots and she switched to meat. So this thing's important for brain development. Oh, it's, it's vital. Like you will not develop your brain properly. And while, you know, if you haven't, you have an adequate amount of it, you know, what if you, what if you don't have as much as you could have had and your brain doesn't develop to the point extent that it could have, you know, I mean, just because someone's normal intelligence doesn't mean that they are as intelligent as they could

have been, which I think is, is a bit of a crime as well. Um, you know, the, the average cranial capacity of, you know, of humans has decreased by 11% since before the agricultural revolution. What's decreased by 11%? before the agricultural revolution. What's decreased by 11%? Like the mass of the brain? Our brain size, yeah. Just the size, the physical volume of it. And we're essentially the same genetically for the last 300,000 years, besides a few minor details.

So our brains absolutely have the same capacity for thought, language and speech. And, you know, and yet, you know, we think that we're so much more advanced. We are technologically, but intellectually, they probably were more intelligent up. They had to remember. They had to remember everything. And so they had to use their brain. They had to do a lot more with a lot less. Back when writing was coming through ancient Greece, there was actually a lot of discussion and argument on should we adopt this? Because they're saying, hey, if you just can write something down, then you don't need to remember it. This is going to ruin our memories before that they, everyone had to have like a perfect memory and they had to train their memory to make it perfect so that they could just go around and just remember everything. And they were saying like, Hey, we shouldn't write things down because that will, we won't

need to remember things. I mean, how many, how many, you know, phone numbers did you know before you got a cell phone? I knew literally 150 every now and then I'd write them all out. Yes. You're not that, how old are you? 43 just turned 43 on Sunday. Wow. Yeah. Happy birthday. And you, that's old enough to need to remember phone numbers. I'm 50. Yeah. So, well, I mean, I didn't get get my i didn't get a cell phone until i was like 20 something listen people did you hear it i have this theory like you want to fuck your kid up give

him a cell phone before they're 15 your kid's done he's just gonna be a masturbating machine don't ever just do not give your it's just the truth. You're not, there's no, don't give your kid a cell phone and sign them up for CrossFit. And I know that's still, it's a really bar low bar, but your kid will turn out 98% better than it will be the 98 percentile automatically right there. No cell phone CrossFit. It's that easy these days. Okay. Sorry. Okay. So yeah, I know all my phone numbers from when I was a little kid, all my friends' phone numbers. Now I don't even know my mom's number dude yeah yeah i i i was i had to write down my parents

number just the other day and i'm like oh shit what is it and um like i ended up like piecing it out but it was like it was a close thing like i wasn't uh it should have just been like that you know i remember my my old house number i remember my house number from, from California. Yeah. You know, all that stuff. Yeah. All that, but everything else now. Hey dude, I don't even remember street names anymore because when I go to a new area, I

use the map quest type or whatever that thing is. The Google map showed my age, the map app. And now like, I don't, my exit at my house, I know it's like for, I don't even know exactly what that sign looks like. I don't know what exit number it is or anything, even though I know it says it's huge on there. Yeah, I'm the same way.

I always go by Google Maps. And, you know, when I, especially when I was going around Europe, you know, you had to sort of do that in Europe because they actually don't necessarily even have like the street signs up. And so they're like, oh yeah, you want to, and so like back, like I was traveling Europe they're like, Oh yeah, you want to enter like back.

Like I was traveling Europe, you know, playing rugby, you know, before iPhones and things like that. So I actually had to go on map quest and like have. And print out the paper. Do you remember when you'd print it out and you'd have it like with you and

shit? Yeah. Just, just walk around like an asshole and like, and try to look for signs. Yeah. And like half the time there were no signs. There no signs for these streets so you just you just had to know that this street was named this and and that was very difficult and so as soon as the map apps came i was just i was all

over those things and uh you know my dad never uses those and so he still knows all the street names all the ways to go and so he'll tell me how to get somewhere he's's like, what you want to do is you want to go down here. You go down three miles. You take this exit. You take, I'm like that, this, I am not going to even try to remember any of this. I'm just going to get the address. I'm just going to put it in. Thank you. Hey, I wonder what the mechanism is. Wow. This is way off subject. I wonder what the mechanism that makes some people be able to do maps and some people not. Like when I was a little kid, I loved maps, like paper maps you get from AAA. I loved maps. But have you ever been with someone, like your wife or something, and they just can't do maps?

Yeah, definitely. They just don't do maps. Yeah. Yeah, I think that spatial reasoning and things like that doesn't come as easily for everyone. Spatial reasoning and things like that isn't doesn't come as easily for everyone spatial reasoning i like this and like i never even trust the map as soon as it gives me the directions i zoom out as far as i can to see the whole route right and one out of 10 times you see something that like the map's done wrong you're like yeah why is it doing that that's it you know that that's a good point like i i stopped using ways like my brother would use this app ways and he said oh it's really really good it gives you all

the shortest ways ways to get there but it would never show me the overall route it would just say be like yeah go this way and so i don't even know if it's going to the right place right you know right because and sometimes it didn't you know sometimes it's just like like whatever address it just like clicked it over into like some city somewhere. And I show up somewhere like, where the hell am I? That just happened to my wife's mom. That just happened to my mother-in-law. Yeah. Yeah. So like, you need to see that overview. He's like, okay, yeah, I'm going to the right place. It didn't, you know, mess up somehow. And so, yeah, I think, I think ways can do that now, but I just basically wrote them off years ago just because I couldn't do that.

that now but i just basically wrote them off years ago just because i couldn't do that spatial reasoning skills spatial reasoning is the ability to visualize and manipulate objects in the mind spatial reasoning is a skill needed for not just mathematics an example of spatial reasoning is being able to look at a shape and imagine what it uh what it would look like from another angle oh yeah i've heard dogs don't do this so good a spatial reasoning also includes the ability to visualize what a two-dimensional net might uh look like as a three-dimensional object oh that's out of my that's above my but yeah they do those tests like with pets right like something walks behind something and they have like some test to figure out whether the pet recognizes like if it went behind something or if it just disappeared okay yeah i always try to make dogs look dumber than they are i don't think dogs are that dumb

no definitely not and uh yeah just messing with the poor dogs like they're just there to love you and to like you know help you and then just people just messing with them you know i and i think that they they sent stuff with other shit like obviously obviously their smell and sound that accommodates their maybe their lack of spatial reasoning. I like this. I have a doctor on and then I charge people for questions and you're just left with none. Philip Kelly. Philip was on my show. Just as a little background, he got COVID really bad.

He was not vaccinated uh had some other complications and he was in the hospital for 40 days lucky lucky to live yeah lucky a crossfitter yeah i don't know a single i think i've only known one crossfitter and then the entire planet he was overweight who died uh from uh the virus but um but this guy survived. Anthony, in your opinion, how beneficial can carnivore diet be for COVID survivors with pulmonary fibrosis? Well, I mean, I think it's going to be optimal for anybody in any situation because I really do believe that this is our optimal diet, that this is the most beneficial diet for humans to be on because it is our biologically appropriate species-specific diet.

So, whatever stage of life you're in, it's going to optimize your health. There is such thing as damage done and you can call it, you know, when you get to the point of fibrosis, that's permanent scarring. You're really not going to be able to heal. What is that? Pulmonary fibrosis. Fibrosis just refers to scarring and so scarring is is a permanent you know permanent damage or destruction they have to rebuild uh scar tissue um you're not really going to be able to replace all that scar tissue maybe

soften maybe you know fix some of it but you know like when you when you when your liver is cirrhotic when it's scarred up that part of the liver is dead and it's not going to come back. The other parts that are still around, maybe you can optimize those. And so, so the same thing for your lungs. Um, but at the same time, it is going to optimize your situation. So if you're in a bad situation, you have pulmonary fibrosis or you have other ailments, it's going to put you in the best position that you can be in any way. And so, you know, when you are sort of knocked back a bit by a serious illness like that, you know, you really don't want to be anything but optimal. And so I think that it's probably more important for people such as yourself to get on this because you really do need to be at your peak game and uh by the way that's why i'm so

the only thing in my life that i've ever done that i regret is the 12 million bong rips i took that that made me feel like my lungs were on fire because all i can ever do now is wonder what i could have been do not burn shit and inhale it don't be a fucking idiot don't do any drugs i'm telling you i know i sound old but like all you can do at 50 now is wonder god how much better of a crossfitter would i've been if i wouldn't have had had a bong smoking contest for three year uh you so you eat meat and water yeah and you're like and you have nice skin and big eyes and you're buff and you're handsome and you're smart uh that my you don't right those are you're those things yeah i guess yeah i mean it's crazy it That's all you eat, just meat and water. Yeah, yeah.

And some salt. Maybe like if you're going to go big, you throw some salt on there. Yeah, so yeah, just salt to taste. I've used less and less salt as I go. I don't always use salt. And I find that sort of the less I use, the less I want to use. And there are quite a lot of people that have just completely done know, completely done away with salt altogether and they feel a lot better for that. And they feel that, that, you know, you, you, you get even an extra leg up when you just get

rid of all the salt completely. Um, I haven't done that yet. I haven't tried that completely yet, but I do find that I, you know, I don't need as much salt, nearly as much salt and, but I just feel amazing, you know, and, and, and I've been doing this, you know, I don't need as much salt, nearly as much salt. And, but I just feel amazing, you know, and, and I've been doing this, you know, I started doing this 22 years ago, 23 years ago now. And I was doing that for sort of five, six years in my early twenties. And then I sort of fell off of it because I didn't really realize how significant what I was doing was. And then I just got back into it last sort of five, six years. And then I really understood why I was doing it. And that this was actually the reason I felt better than I'd ever felt in my entire life

in my early twenties was not because I was in my early twenties, but because I was in my early twenties and eating like this. And then in my late twenties, as a professional athlete playing professional rugby at the top levels in the U S and and canada and in europe i did not feel as good as i do now in my 40s eating a carnivore diet and i have better exercise tolerance it's way easier to stay trim like i don't even have to try to stay in shape like i am always at the same body fat percentage i will i just never go above 10 body. And then when I'm working out and I'm training and lifting, it usually goes down to around six without even trying. And I get, I never found it easier to put on muscle either. Yeah. This is crazy. Have you ever read that book? Stranger in a strange land by, uh,

no, I don't think so. High Highland, Highland, H E I-I-L-A-N. You kind of are giving me that vibe. Hey, would you ever do, what do you think about that neural link? I mean, since you're going to be a neurosurgeon, you think you'd be putting computer chips in people? I mean, if they want them. This is a great audio book. I don't read a lot of fiction but man this god this book's insane dude this book is so it's so fascinating they say it's sci-fi and he was in the

same kind of cohort as um alfred hitchcock uh ray bradbury and the scientology guy they were i think they were all you know robert heimlich he's the one who wrote uh brave new world wasn't he no who was that that was before him uh oh 1987 yeah yeah yeah way before him yeah but but this book basically is about an alien that comes from another planet, and he's trying to figure out what the hell is going on here on planet Earth. The thing that sticks out to me the most is he says what a shame. He says we're the only creatures in the cosmos that can be enlightened and also still procreate. That all the other enlightened creatures in the cosmos, in order to be enlightened, they don't procreate and that we're totally fucking it up because we get both but because of jealousy and all of these things and our unchecked emotions we're screwing it all up but there's some yeah

there's some fascinating ideas uh presented in the book and it's read so well but the guy's all the guy basically what made me think of you is the guy's basically whatever he puts his mind to his body just does kind of like he's a he's a mind over matter guy not in the marvel sense where it's just like just you know just pulling down skyscrapers but uh but it's some it's some cool stuff who introduced introduced you to the, 20 years ago, that seems like you're a little ahead of your time. Were you just dabbling in Atkins or something? No, it was sort of completely circuitous.

I was taking cancer biology in my undergraduate degree. And, you know, I'd taken biology and I'd taken botany. So these things sort of were already there that, you know, I mean, literally learned in seventh grade that plants and animals are in an evolutionary arms race. Plants becoming more and more poisonous. So less and less animals can eat them. And so they can survive and thrive. And then animals becoming more and more adapted to specific plants with specific poisons.

So they can detoxify those poisons safely and they can eat that and they can survive and thrive. Like, you know, a koala eats eucalyptus, nothing else eats eucalyptus, right? But they don't eat, but koalas don't eat anything else because anything else will actually cause them to be, you know, cause them quite a lot of harm and actually kill them. So, you know, this, that was literally how that was explained to me in seventh grade. And then- Was that a private school? Uh, no, that was a school yeah that was that was in um like washington school district and you remember the teacher's name

what was her name i don't i don't remember off the top of my head but um kind of cool she gave that to you wow yeah well that was it you know it was just it was just, it was a good, it was a good school district. The public school district in that area in Kirkland, Washington was actually, actually very good. And, and so that was, that was lucky. But when I took cancer biology, you know, and I understood because I'd taken botany classes and things like that. And I understood that, you know, plants are, are stationary.

They can't run away or fight back and all living things have a defense. And while animals can run away or fight back, that's their defense that plants can't. And so, you know, they have to use other defensive, defensive means. And one of those means is, is, you know, being poisonous. They just have, they have a lot of poisons that they can, and, uh, that they can excrete. And they can also bind up their nutrients in ways that animals can't break down, and they don't have the right enzymes to break up or get good nutrition from. So I knew all that. And then I was taking cancer biology, and we learned day one that, again, plants defend themselves by using chemical deterrence, and that some of these things are actually mutagenic and carcinogenic. That's on the WHO website. You know, WHO who pitches a plant-based diet, they have a whole

page about all the toxic elements in plants and how, you know, how poisonous these things are and how you have to, and then talking about how these things can kill you or cause cancer. And so, you know, we were learning this from a cancer perspective and so we were looking at carcinogens and so we learned day one that you know brussels sprouts had 136 already identified human carcinogens oh no yeah i love a brussels sprout yeah but do you but you love them raw? No, not so much. Not so much. I've eaten some raw, but I prefer them actually mushy like mashed potatoes.

You can't even tell they're Brussels sprouts anymore. Yeah, and that's usually the thing. We cook them. We put butter on them. We put cheese and salt and pepper. More salt, please. Yes. Yeah, and so that's changing and adulterating the

taste and what that taste is that that bitter taste yeah is your is you is a warning signal right your brain and your tongue are sophisticated machines and they can actually identify harmful chemicals and so that's actually a warning system that's saying hey this is bad for you that's why that's why that's what that bitter taste is you You know, it's not just, just bitter to like, you know, piss off kids, you know, when they, when you want them to eat your vegetables, it's there to tell you, don't eat this. This is harmful. You know, deer don't go around eating the shitty tasting leaves. You know, they eat the leaves that taste good, you know?

And so, you know, they don't have- The baby leaves, the baby leaves, the new growth. Potentially, yeah. And some of those baby leaves don't have as much toxins toxins as well um like that in grapevines i have grapevines all over my house and if i pick just the baby leaves i can eat them but the big leaves taste like ass yeah yeah so that's you know that's the thing and so that that's that's what you're tasting you're tasting more defense chemicals that your body's trying to warn you away from now you can cook them like like a potato.

I don't know if you've ever bitten into a raw potato. I have when I was a kid. It's disgusting. It is so bitter. And I remember even just looking at it and just knowing that it was going to taste bad. And it did. But we cook it and it sort of denatures these things. And so now they're sort of off the register.

You know, our brain's trying to look it up. I'm like, like yeah we don't know what the hell this is and so it just tastes bland doesn't really have any flavor and that's what a baked potato is doesn't have any any taste to it but that doesn't come on jicama is like that yeah yeah and um you still remember what vegetables taste like like you when i say jicama do you remember what it tastes like? I do, yeah, yeah, yeah. But with like potatoes, they have a ton of toxins in them, like salinine. You know, the potatoes are in the nightshade family, like tobacco and belladonna, but also potatoes, tomatoes, eggplants, peppers, all capsicums, things like that. And so they have salinine and other things in it that are quite harmful to people. And so you can cook that and that can denature it. So your brain doesn't recognize it, but that doesn't make it go away. And it doesn't make them safe. You know, some things you can

denature through heat, but not all of them. Some of them just change it enough so you don't really taste them. And then you cover it with butter and sour cream and bacon. And people say, oh, I love potatoes. And it's like, well, you probably you probably don't you know you love the bacon and the butter and the sour cream and the cheese but you try eating potato on its own it's disgusting you try eating a brussels sprout on its own it's disgusting you know people i mean there's there's some weirdos out there that like that like raw brussels sprouts but you know i think of it more as you know something along you know akin of umholm syndrome you know they're just they fall in love with their abuser they've been told since they were a kid yes yes um yes they've been told since they were a kid that you know this is really good for you this is good for you this is good for you eat it eat it and and then you get

in your head okay oh this is good for me this is good for me it's just like you know but but you have to condition yourself to do that and maybe there's some people that naturally like it, but most people don't. The vast majority of people find that bitter taste quite unappealing. And that's what it is. It's, you know, you're tasting bad chemicals. So, we were learning that about Brussels sprouts, mushrooms, spinach, kale, broccoli, all of these things had dozens, if not over a hundred known human carcinogens in them. And they're quite abundant. You know, there was, there was work from professor Bruce Ames from UC Berkeley where in back in 1989, he published his works looking at the amount of naturally occurring toxins and pesticides

in the plants that the plants produce in order to stop, you know, animals and insects from eating them. And he found that there were over 10,000 times the amount of naturally occurring poisons in plants and vegetables than the pesticides we were spraying on them industrially. And that they, you know, were a thousand times more likely to cause cancer than the pesticides that we were spraying on them. Right. So, you know,

this is, you know, this is why we still have pesticides. That's so hard to believe. I'm so programmed not to believe that. That's amazing. Yeah. That's amazing.

The one caveat to that I'd say is that, you know, we haven't, we weren't using glyphosate at that point. I think that came in the nineties. What is that? Some sort of bug spray? Yeah.

It's Roundup. Yeah. So they use all the GMO sort of. Oh, that's just poison. These fucking idiots. I live in California. Anytime I, since I've been a little kid, anytime I've seen someone spraying poison on the cracks of their driveway, I want to get out and beat them with a bat. Sorry.

My wife's going to hate me for saying that. What are you doing yeah what do you really think you really are spraying bad shit that kills plants on your property just go over and pull it out you ding dong yeah i think well that's that's the thing it's it's like to spray this instead of just reaching down and yeah pulling it out god it's crazy yeah it's like spraying raid in your house listen you knuckleheads if it's killing the ants it's killing you too what are you doing you bought a can of poison and brought it into your house yeah what's wrong with you you know what i just saw today i just saw i

just saw a video they were talking about that as well yeah they were talking about pam you know that that sort of uh spray that you put on a pan or whatever so it's non-stick i'm like oh look how great this is yeah and you think it's just like you know some vegetable oil and like some compressed air turns out it's not compressed air they use butane and propane right so you're literally spraying lighter and this is what and i've done this as a kid you take like a lighter and that pan just i'm like that can't be good you know and um and that's one of the greatest activities as a young man by the way that's what makes boys boys if you haven't done that you're not a boy yeah can and a lighter remember banaca even you would spray banaca yeah get a one-legged porch

yeah absolutely and uh yeah so that's it propane butane. And you're spraying this on your food and you're cooking with it. How is that a good thing? You know? Nice. Hey, dude, you know, it's crazy. Anthony is like, if you like, if you watch like all these vlogs from, oh, that's a nice rig that guy's got. That looks dangerous. He's got the lighter actually strapped to the can. That's advanced that's a whole plan that's a future problem right there a kid join the military or else you are going to go sideways um you see all these athletes in my community and they have these vlogs and you always see them doing that spraying their pan before they cook their four eggs and their bagel slice and they're and i'm like i always think god you really there's

nothing in your brain that tells you if it's in a can you shouldn't eat it like everything that when i see a can i'm just like my brain's like dude don't eat what's in there yeah no matter what i mean is yeah where was that 50 000 years ago yeah you know i mean if we're if we're doing this intelligently you know we we should look at our biological past and see like, what were we eating? What do we have available? And like, even if you say that, okay, well, we were eating plants and vegetables, well, which ones? Because none of the plants and vegetables that we have access to now existed 50,000 years ago, none of them, you know, they've all been, you know, genetically engineered in one way or the other uh none of these things existed back then and uh in fact no we weren't really eating plants back then at all maybe

sometimes as you know if we had to because we were starving or used medicinally but the vast majority of what we were eating was meat and you know and then people would say like oh well maybe we just weren't thriving not doing well people dying of heart attacks and obesity at you know 25 it was like that's garbage that and obesity at you know 25 i was like that's garbage that is so stupid you know like you you you are not like in the past like people that must have been happening oh during the caveman era like well dr anthony you know the average age of death in uh 1200 bc was actually 40 years old yeah and they were getting eaten by lions right yeah well and in 1850 in America as well.

Because the thing is, is what the average life expectancy is, the average life expectancy from birth. And until the 20th century when the OBGYN specialty, you know, came about and became actually, you know, very beneficial to the human race, the infant mortality rate was like three in five. Wow. You know? You have to live pretty damn long those other two guys have to live pretty long time to get the average from birth up to 36 yeah right and that's what it was in 1850 in the u.s it was average from birth was was 36 but they weren't retarded back then which people hear one of my favorite words a clinic he's

speaking clinically no one get triggered it's he's a doctor you can use it well it's latin it means it means slowed you know it's like when you're taking when you're taking chemistry you put in something to retard the reaction you know i refuse to sort of play with those games like this is a word it has meaning and it actually is a medical term you're you're right it's sub sub uh sub average intelligence you know and and people um know, use the word idiot, moron, imbecile and things like that. And they don't bat an eye, but what those words mean is that you are mentally retarded to a specific IQ range. So, yeah. So a moron actually, actually denoted an IQ between 50 and 70. Imbecile was 30 to 50 yeah idiot was zero to 30 that's why

idiot is the most most commonly used one it's the worst you can call someone it is the lowest intelligence possible and that's why it was so popular so all the best insults were formally uh medical terms like cretin use are you cretin that's actually a medical condition it's it's congenital hypothyroidism so it's not like people from the island of crete who are like inbred or something no no no yeah okay and uh well maybe the sort of origin of the name might might come from i don't know but uh but that but that's what that cretinism is is uh is um congenital hypothyroidism so if the mom doesn't have is hypothyroid during pregnancy or the kid and and or the kid is uh you know still has low thyroid

as well they develop very differently their short stature they don't grow as big they have very specific facial deformities and and they're you know uh intellectually uh impaired significantly and so you know and and you know that's an, you know, and people use that as an insult and that's why they use it. But but yeah. So, you know, previously, like in the 1800s, they thought about this rationally. And yeah, there you go. And yeah. Yeah.

And, um, yeah, yeah. And, um, so in the 1850s, you know, uh, I'll, I'll, I'll give an aside with this, you know, Mark Twain popularized the, uh, the saying it, you know, there are three kinds of lies. There are lies, there are damn lies and there's statistics. And so these are all lies with statistics. So they say like, oh, well, you know, people, you know, the life expectancy was 40 or whatever it was. That's a lie of statistics because, yes, that's technically correct from birth. But we're not talking about from birth. We're talking about how long do people actually live, right? If they're not killed by a lion or, you know, a war or something like that. If they just died of old age.

And so in the 1800s, they looked at that. And so there's census data available all the way back to 1850, that every decade they look at this and they don't just look at the average life expectancy from birth. They look at it every 10 years. So average life expectancy from zero is 36 in 1850 but at 10 it was 56 right yeah so if you made it to 10 years old on average you'd make it to 56 years old yes and it went and went up from there so if you so people have made it to adulthood they generally lived about as long as they do now pretty close yeah there's great there's great stuff like that uh thomas so well uh so yeah he he has some great statistics on that right like um

the the wealthiest people in the united states are jews and the poorest were puerto ricans jews made a hundred thousand dollars a year puerto ricans made twenty five thousand dollars a year and then he goes but if they tell you that and they never tell you that the median age of a jew in the u.s is 50 years old the median age of a puerto rican is 25 year old i mean when i was 25 i was fucking homeless now i'm 50 i'm rich it's like what the fuck you cannot compare i mean you know i mean what were you doing at 25 doctor like yeah oh yeah right yeah you were like checking your pocket to see if you could buy food for your next to do your next rugby practice right yeah i mean it's crazy what you can do with statistics the manipulation absolutely yeah and yeah no thomas solo is the best for that you know he's no one digs into the you know into the bedrock of what's actually going on

uh and and showing you like this is what's really happening. One of the ones that I really like to throw in the face of other doctors, things like that, because people just buy this nonsense. And there's a few of them. But the one in particular that he pointed out was infant mortality rate. They're saying that in America, everyone tries to trash the American healthcare system because they're trying to tear it down and put in a governmental health care system which i i can tell you because i've worked in government health health care systems in europe and australia they are horrible horrible okay i've been doing this for over a decade in these systems it's everyone everyone we have on the show for the vast majority say,

if you're in Canada or the UK right now, you're screwed. They said it's basically a collapse. Well, it's yeah. It's in a permanent state of collapse. It just, it just, it's just limping along, but it's, it's just, you know, they're just trying to put on patches and things like that. And then just what they do is they just delay things and you know, you're waiting. I mean, literally, so I'm in neurosurgery. You have people that come in for like a non-emergent sort of situation, but they're in horrific pain.

And they have some pinched nerve in their back and they can't walk because of the pain. They can't work. They haven't worked in five years. And you're not allowed to see them. Literally, the average wait time right now is four and a half years just to see them in an office in Australia. Holy crap. Yeah. So four and a half years.

But it's free, Anthony. But it's free. It's free. You get what you pay for. F-R-E-E. Yeah. Well, you know, and that's the thing, too. You know, you see these people.

It's four and a half years wait time to get in to see us. Right. And that's going to take months. We're going to try different sorts of treatments. We're going to get another MRIs and all these sorts of things. And then we'll say, okay, well, you know, we think that surgery is a good idea. Well, then they go on the wait list for surgery. It can take a year or two to get surgery, right? So, so the real times are people waiting six years and they're not working the whole time, right? So even if you made minimum

wage, right, it would be in your best interest to take a loan and get that surgery it's it's it's twelve to fifteen thousand dollars to get like a like a lumbar laminectomy you know and just and just decompress those nerves right and yet these people are you know some of these people are like have a really high paying jobs like labor jobs in the in the mining industry which is like a big industry in australia they're making 150,000, pushing $200,000 a year, like working in the mine sites. And they don't want to spend $12,000 getting a surgery. Like, oh, I can't afford that.

It's like, you can't afford not to. You're losing out on $200,000 a year for six years. You're missing out on all the promotions, all the pay, and just being a functional human being. And so it you know, and it makes no sense. I mean, it makes no sense for the system either because the system is now not collecting taxes and tax rates are huge here. It's like 50%. So there, you know, the government's losing out on, you know, 80, 90 grand a year on these guys and they're paying 60 grand a year in disability how is this how is this a workable system all just because they don't want to pay 15 grand for a surgery i mean they're

both losing out hey do you tell them hey dude like while you're waiting you might as well cut out all inflammation what's that look like doctor well that's a three-day water fast and then immediately just start eating steaks. Yeah, well, you know, and some people, yeah. Can you tell them that or would you lose your shit? Would you end up like who is the who is the guy over there? No, would you end up like no? No, it was in South Africa, right?

No, he was in he was in Tasmania. Yeah. So he was Australian. Oh, no, sorry. No, it was in in South Africa. And yeah, they tried to they tried to take away his. Yeah. I mean, they ruined his life. I mean, yeah, they. Noke was in South Africa. Yeah, they tried to take away his – Yeah. I mean, they ruined his life. I mean, yeah, they fucked up his life.

I mean, basically they put him in the system and tried to take his medical degree away because he said carbs were bad. Yeah, exactly. I mean, how crazy is that? Crazy. You know, what's your dog in this fight? He was like, no, God damn it. You will not, you know, talk shit about my lovely carbs. Like, what the hell kind of sense does that make but they do to a lot of people there was a uh dr gary fetkey here in

tasmania and he uh is an orthopedic surgeon and he was just basically telling people was like hey you know you can you can help yourself by by going on a ketogenic diet and on a low carb diet and here's all the evidence here's all the the background on it and and so they did and they were benefiting themselves you'd think the system would like that because he was saving the hospital system and the government literally millions of dollars a year in unnecessary surgeries that now did not need to happen. I mean, these people were just better, so they didn't need these massive joint replacements. And so, you know, he's actually doing a good thing for his patients and a good thing for the system you'd think he'd be you know get a get a statue made of him but no they tried to run him

out and they tried to take his license away they just went after him and they even um because i've actually spoken to him and he he was saying that they that they said that they wanted him to settle and they wanted him to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in fines. They wanted to take his license away for a few years and then do this whole mea culpa sort of thing. And one of the conditions was, and they wanted him to sign this thing and said, even if a ketogenic dietary approach becomes

mainstream practice you still can't recommend it you can't and so he was just like absolutely not that's ridiculous and he took them to the supreme court and he won but it cost hundreds of thousands of dollars and years of his life and um you know i think wikipedia pulled down his page too oh really yeah he's part of this whole group of people wet key of the fetky uh go go chie godier i think maybe zoe harcombe do you know who that is out of the uk i think they pulled down her yeah wikipedia so so like osama bin laden and hitler have wiki pages but they, but the wiki is going through and canceling these people who are the low-carb guys. Yeah, they're probably sponsored by Nestle or something like that. So they're like, nope, get them out.

See if you can find Gary Fetke's wiki page, Caleb. F-E-T-K-E? F-E-T-K-E. Oh, I thought there was an H in there or something. Yeah, what a fat key f-e-t-t-k-e oh i would have thought there was an h in there or something yeah what a crazy world uh someone in the comments said uh um homegrown brussels sprouts are fantastic you did say something in this uh interview i heard you talk about about if you are going to eat tomatoes i'm paraphrasing uh grow the plant at your house and let it get really ripe and it's it's funny you say that. Cause I have tomatoes growing in my yard almost all year round.

I'm in California. They basically, and they just reproduce. They're like a weed back there now. And we never pick them and bring them in the house, but every once in a while I'll go out there and there'll be one just like barely hanging on and I'll pluck it off and eat it. And it's so darn good. and I'll pluck it off and eat it. And it's so darn good. Why, why is the, in the tomato in particular, why is it better to do vine ripe tomato? So, you know, a fruit is obviously a, you know, vessel for the seed, right? And the plant, while it wants something to eat

the fruit and then move the seeds, it doesn't always want you to eat the fruit there are plenty of fruits that are deadly poisonous that will kill you because they want a specific animal to move that seed and and the seeds will will germinate in the gut like um the cassowary bird in the tropics castle what bird cassowary bird it's like a small emu looking thing and uh and they're they're brujivores they just eat these fruit and so there's a whole bunch of different tropical fruits and berries that they eat uh and they're the only ones you can't and um oh that's a nice bird freaky looking dinosaur so the the fruits that they eat only germinate in their gut. And if they don't get eaten by a cassowary bird, they don't germinate.

And so it's imperative that they do. So they have this, this sort of symbiotic development together. And so they are deadly, deadly poisonous to any other animal. Like, like you eat one of these fruits. Oh,

it's a tropical fruit. Yeah. You'll die if you eat it. And, um, and there's about 150 of them that, that the cassowary bird eats that, uh,

will kill you. Um, and there's a ton of fruits like the cassowary bird eats that will kill you. And there's a ton of fruits like that. But there are fruits that we can eat. There are fruits that are more available. But again, tomatoes are nightshades. And nightshades are just inherently more toxic to humans. They're very toxic to dogs and things like that. So the fruit is going to be even more toxic when it's not ripe because the seed's not ready to go so and it's going to be like hard and it's going to be you know sour or bitter or something like that i mean think of an avocado you know like most people like avocados right but when it's not ripe it's rock hard because it does not want things to eat it. Right. So tomatoes the same way. So it was it was it was sort of folk.

You don't eat avocado either. I don't. You know, I do like avocado, but no, I don't eat them. And I mean, the reason being is because there are going to be some things in it. And for the reasons we talk about, you know, they're probably not all vine ripened or tree ripened. Right. And that matters. But they'll still have some in there and either way it's not going to be as good as a steak you know i have a bunch of avocado trees i someone can unfuck me in the comments if they want but i don't think an avocado ever ripens on a tree that my avocados if i don't pick them when they go from hard to rotten.

Basically, because they start turning. I am just three miles off the ocean, but they start to turn black if you leave them on too long. I've never picked an avocado and just ate it. It has to be picked, brought in the house, and then a week later, you eat it. Yeah, I have. My grandmother lived in Montecitoito and she had like she was up in that's like oh hi like right outside of montecito they got amazing avocado so you would just pick them off the tree and you could eat them yeah okay yeah yeah um and um yeah but as far as the

tomatoes are concerned you know they're going to be more toxic if they're if they're not ripe and so this was something that was like folklore knowledge that, that green tomatoes were toxic. That was something that people know is like, don't eat green tomatoes, they're poison. Right. And then people say, oh, well, that's crazy. And you know, that's just them saying that, but you know, you, you eat a lot of these things and you will know about it. Um, so when it vine ripens, now the seeds are getting ready to go, to be germinated. And so the plant's sort of pulling out some of the toxins to make it less toxic to animals so it can encourage them to eat it. But there have been studies done looking at tomatoes specifically, and they found that if you pick them while they're green they

don't actually get rid of the poisons because the the poisons get sucked back into the plant and whereas if you just pick it off there they just stay there right and i think that probably has a lot to do with the taste where you have where you you pick a tomato early it just doesn't taste it's just it's just not as not as exciting as like a fresh vine ripened tomato it has that really like amazing smell it's like wow it has a nice fresh taste and everything like that right so it's going to have less of these toxins in them and then the original usages of tomatoes uh they vine ripen them and then they blanch the the skin right so they dipped them in boiling water and they were able to peel off the skin and then they tookanched the skin, right? So they dipped them in boiling water and they were able to peel off the skin.

And then they took the seeds out, right? Because the plant may want you to eat the fruit, but it does not want you to eat the seeds. And so the seeds are a plant's baby. Everything protects its baby more than anything. That's generally where you'll find the highest concentration of toxins is in the seeds. And so, you know, that's what the original spaghetti sauce and pasta sauce

was, was they took the skin off that's barrier protection. That's where a lot of the, the, the concentrated toxins are to stop animals and insects from eating into it and boring into it. And you take out the seeds as well, because that's going to be protected part of the plant as well. And so they just use the other bits that were vine ripened and this significantly reduced the toxicity of that. And so that, that's why you would do that. God, that sounds laborious. Yeah, it was. Yeah. And this is why they, they peeled potatoes and now they're saying, oh no, don't peel the potatoes. You know, that's where all the vitamins are. It's like, yeah, it's where all the poison is too, you know? And so, you know, there were reasons people did these things for hundreds of years.

I don't want to forget to tell you guys this. I should have opened with this. There is a video that Anthony has on YouTube. It's called Carnivore for Beginners. Like, I wish I would have seen this video 20 years ago. It's called carnivore for beginners how to start a carnivore diet with tips uh it's on his youtube station carnivore for beginners and then you can just type in his name also you can just go to his if you basically just

type in anthony um chafee did i say it right chafee yeah chafee chafee um c-h-a-f-f-e-e uh this is a great video this is uh i i watched this last night at one one and a quarter speed while standing on my balance block this is a great video and even if you don't want to do this will kind of inspire you i encourage everyone even if you think this is fucking crazy to try this it's your it's your body why not why not um uh you know do some some laboratory stuff uh with it we had chris uh chris work on the show chris beat cancer do you know who that is uh no i haven't come across him okay that the name of his book is chris beat cancer he was 20 years old or 23 years old, got diagnosed with stage four colon cancer, and he went on a pure – I don't think he's vegan anymore, but he went on a pure vegan diet, right? And just basically just started just blending vegetables and fruits and just consuming them.

And he cured himself of his cancer. He basically opted out of all the medical procedures and you know and i've gone the other way you know i i've had a brian johnson on here the liver king i've had paul on here i had a bunch of people who've cured themselves of autoimmune diseases like this one guy i don't know if you've seen him on instagram but he's the raw meat guy and he just goes to whole foods and they just buy an octopus and eat it and like his stories his before and after pictures are nuts he was a pimple i mean he was he was he was grotesque looking and uh he said he couldn't he said no t-shirt lasted him more than four weeks because it would get so many blood stains and pus stains on it that you just have to throw it away yeah

and he had that for you know 10 years of his life and after like you know four weeks of eating just uh dead animals cured yeah right well that's awesome poor bastard but what about um when you hear things like this guy uh uh and i'm sure you've come across them uh you have stage four colon cancer and you just switch to all vegetables what what is your thought process i mean i'm guessing your brain turns cancer and you just switched to all vegetables what what is your thought process i mean i'm guessing your brain turns on and you try to explain uh how he cured himself yeah well i think the main thing is you're cutting out a bunch of processed garbage you know yeah he cut out all yeah he won't even look at like he can't even look at a mcdonald's or you know what i mean or anything and it can't yeah zero process zero yeah well that's it you know and and i think

that's a lot of the harm you know is this this process garbage a lot of you know sugar i mean sugar just added anything process you know anything that that's going to have a list of ingredients that someone else put together will have sugar in it because it's addictive and the the food companies know it's addictive and make things taste good and it also it gives a dopamine hit to the addiction centers of your brain it is an actual drug that is actually addictive and they put this stuff in everything and so you know when you when you get rid of that referring to sugar sugar fructose specific yeah yeah and so you know that that that has been shown to give a dopamine dopamine response to the addiction centers of your brain and just like cocaine heroin and meth

and there are mri studies looking at that and showed that that fructose kills the same areas of your brain as meth to the same extent as meth all right and it's broken down in your liver into the same byproducts as alcohol so you get the same damage to your liver and your body as well and which is quite surprising so when you when you all that crap out, you're going to be in much better form. And just carbohydrates, as you know from Otto Warburg and Professor Seyfried, cancers need 400 times the amount of sugar that normal cells do, and they cannot run on ketones. And so if you go on a whole foods, hopefully ketogenic diet, where you're cutting out all this high octane carbohydrate and sugar filled garbage, you are going to seriously limit the available energy

and resources to that cancer. Now it could have been, you know, even another step because cancers also feed on glutamine. And so they go, they feed on glucose and glutamine and different cancers have sort of a different ratio of each. So if you're going on a sort of plant-based whole food diet, you're also not going to get a lot of available proteins. You know, that's not good for normal health. But if you're trying to starve your cancer of glutamine, it might actually not be the worst thing you ever did.

starve your cancer of glutamine might actually not be the worst thing you ever did. And so, you know, going on a whole food diet of any description is going to, is going to improve your lot significantly and just getting rid of carbs and sugar, especially for cancer. And potentially there's that benefit from glutamine. When we look at the cancer trials in humans and in mice, when you're able to significantly limit the available resources for cancers, the cancers will die out. And so if you can target both glucose and glutamine, cancers die. They just die. And Seyfried showed this in animal models. They showed they had four different groups. And this is with brain cancer. And these glioblastoma brain cancers, 75% of their energy comes from glutamine.

So they're actually very glutamine dependent, right? Other cancers are much more glucose dependent. So ketogenic diet just on its own really works well. But a ketogenic diet in brain cancers actually work very well as well, but it works even better when you are able to target glutamine. So there are different drugs that can target glutamine, but they're not really approved for humans at the moment, especially for GBM. But in animal models, you can use these things. So they gave these GBM mice, glioblastoma brain cancer mice. One group was just given normal chow that you just give to

these mice. They died after about eight, nine days, right? Then you had the ketogenic group that lived twice as long as that, right? Calorie-restricted ketogenic diet, twice as long. Then they had this medication that targeted glutamine and just on its own, they lived around three times as long as the, you know, control group. Right. So even longer than that. Eight days, 20 days, 30 days. Yeah. Something like that.

Yeah. Or 60 days or 24 days. Something like that. Well, yeah. But these are mice too, you know. Right. Right. Right.

Their life cycle is a little shorter. But then they had the group that was ketogenic, you know, calorie restricted, ketogenic and glutamine restricting. None of them died. Wow. And they did imaging. They saw the brain has just shrink, shrink, shrink, shrink, shrink, gone. And then eventually they sacrificed the animals so that they could look at the brains under a microscope. And they found, they just found clumps of dead cells.

You know, there was, there was no living cancer cells, you know, it just killed them because you've cut off the, the energy supply to these cells. The cells die. Isn't there some law that like, isn't there some law that like you could, you personally, let's say you got, sorry, I'm sorry, Anthony, for saying this. This is fiction, fiction. Let's say you got this brain cancer. Let's also say you were eating 12 Big Macs a day. Isn't there some law in the United States that you could do this on yourself as a study of one?

Like that you're allowed to take experimental drugs in a there's some there's some wiggle room isn't there caleb isn't there some like wiggle room where you can i think there is i think there there is a law that if you have a terminal illness yeah and you want to and you want to take some sort of experimental approach that you can you can do that yeah um and um yeah that's a good question on on if they could they could access uh dawn that's what the uh the the chemical that they used in oh yeah they got that on aisle seven at safeway dawn it's the bottle that's uh green with the lady washing her hands. That's exactly it. Yeah, don't drink that. But there are other things. There are other things that sort of interrupt glutamine and its use in metabolism.

And so, you know, and there's different, you know, people can look into that if they want. But, you know, I don't recommend people using things, you know, self-prescribing things. using things, you know, self prescribing things, certainly I should be using these under the direction of a doctor and just try to find one of these doctors that do practice, you know, metabolic therapy, if that's what they want. It is, it is, you know, really a second line, third line, fourth line, sort of last line approach at the moment in America, but it is being used. And so in like Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, they do use this, but it's basically people that have failed all the different available treatment options for different cancers. They say, OK, well, you know, there is this thing. You could try it, you know, and and the case case studies and case reports that they put out in a series of these things, you know, 20 patients over the course of any X number of years.

They they do really well. They do really well. And the only ones in this case series that they published in 2016 showed that everyone who stayed on a ketogenic diet survived. And the only ones in that case series at that point, at the time of publication that had died were the ones that uh just said yeah you know what i can't do this this doesn't fit with my lifestyle and they quit and they they passed away unfortunately because you're you're literally feeding this cancer you're giving it exactly what it wants and um and that's that's not that's not in your best interest so i think you can do that in a lot of ways it doesn't have to be in a carnivore diet. It's best done in a ketogenic diet. And hopefully if you can target glutamine as well. So, you know, I think, I think

you could do that in a vegetarian diet. I don't think it'd be the most optimal. I don't think that's the best way you could do it, but I think you can do it. But, you know, you can also go on a vegan diet that consists of Oreo cookies and heroin, you know, that's vegan, right? And so, you know, it really depends on what we mean by vegan, right? And so if you're limiting carbs and you're limiting sugar, then you're limiting fuel to cancer, plain and simple. And so you can, you can do that a lot of ways. A lot of it has to do with fasting as well. A lot of, a lot of, um, you know, Seyfried in his human models and animal models, they measure what's called a GKI or glucose to ketone index that, you know, the ratio of what

your blood sugar is and what your ketone levels are in your blood. And they find that the better this is, so the lower your glucose and the higher ketones, the better people do. As if you can get your, your GKI under two or as close to one as possible, people do really well and they seem to be able to just continue on and not succumb to these diseases. And a lot of people are curing them. A lot of these cancers that would be more glycolytic, meaning that they would be more reliant on glucose,

well, they can respond very well you know i you know as a as a another example of um of a colon cancer i literally just had a guy on my podcast i haven't published it yet uh he's a french gentleman who lives in south carolina and he was vegan for 12 years and then all of a sudden bam you know he's in his 40s and he gets colon cancer he's like how can this possibly be i haven't eaten red meat in decades you know and it's only red meat that causes colon cancer like well no actually and so he couldn't eat any plants and he and he looked into it and he didn't want to do the traditional therapy he did not do chemo radiation or surgery and he just said okay what am i going to do he came across seafreed he's like okay i'm going to do ketosis and so he actually first he did a 21 day fast ate nothing

and only drank water for 21 days after 21 days his tumor was half the size that it was you know that's crazy right and so it's proof of concept at least at least for his case right and it was enough for him to keep going with this and so he continued on a ketogenic diet he found that he could not have anything with fiber because of this this blockage and obstruction any bulk would just cause him excruciating pain because the the tumor was just sort of pressed up against a nerve and it just was intolerable and so he had to eat the most low residue foods, meaning that nothing came through his colon. He absorbed absolutely everything and he didn't need to excrete any waste, which is what a carnivore diet is. If you

just eat meat and nothing else, you'll absorb 98% of the meat that you eat, right? So almost nothing's going out. So he sort of defaulted into a carnivore diet and he found that certain meats actually didn't agree with him either. And so he just ate red meat. So he went from being like a raw food vegan, fat and overweight as a, as a professional martial artist and instructor who trained, you know, 12 times a week, fat and overweight as a vegan. Now he's only eating red meat. And in four months to the day, his colon was gone he was stage four as well and so it was just completely gone in four months to the day and uh and he's only and he was only eating only eating red meat you know so it's more about what you're not eating as much as what you are eating because what you what you're not eating

is is what's actually fueling the cancer right so if you go back and you are eating because what you what you're not eating is is what's actually fueling the cancer right so if you go back and you're eating all that garbage that's going to fuel the cancer it's not red meat that fuels the cancer we know that because we have people just eating red meat and curing this stuff but you know it's it's not the only option you know so if you don't want to eat meat you don't want to eat red, you don't want to eat red meat. You don't have to. It's really about. I just want to be alive. I choose to be alive. Yeah. Hey, is that guy religious?

I don't know. I didn't ask. I asked because, you know, when people make these decisions, there's a ton of pressure from the conventional wisdom in their family to take the Western route. Right. so that was one of the interesting thing about this guy chris's story like you know all everyone who loves you is like are you fucking crazy go get the chemo and this guy like got like some word from his higher power being like nah dude choose do your own path which is just i mean it's it's ballsy. Yeah. It's ballsy, but so many success stories. Heidi Kroom, normally she asks if the guests are single. Today she has a different question for you. She says, what damages the mitochondria and can you heal it?

There are a lot of things that damage mitochondria. Going back to the story I was saying when I was taking cancer biology, we're looking at all the different carcinogens in plants. Well, those carcinogens, they actually affect the mitochondria. So, a lot of these different toxins, a lot of different genetic disorders, you know, tysox and things like that, like, you know, these things damage the mitochondria or cause a dysfunction of the mitochondria. So, a lot of things it can't. And there are a lot of toxins in plants that cause it. And that was the whole thing.

That was the whole reason why I stopped eating plants in the first place. Because my professor, when we were talking about all this, you know, we were just blown away that how he was saying that, you know, how toxic plants were and how carcinogenic they were. And, you know, I remember thinking in my head, I was like, but, you know, but plants are still good for you though, right? And he just looked at us and he just said yeah i don't eat plant i don't eat salads i don't eat vegetables i don't let my kids eat vegetables oh he doesn't let his kids eat vegetables either i was gonna ask you about that about kids not kids either no because he just said he's like plants are trying to kill you like why would why would you eat them? They don't want to be eaten. You know, it's kill or be killed in the wild for all stages of life, including plants.

So that was the thing, you know, I learned that later, that a lot of these carcinogens in plants and all these different toxins, they're carcinogenic because they damage the mitochondria. And just eating sugar and carbohydrates actually disrupts and deranges the function of your mitochondria. We know sort of in reverse order that people who go on a ketogenic diet for several months actually have much healthier mitochondria

and much more mitochondria. And so you can go through, people know about apoptosis and autophagy and things like that, where your body sort of scavenges these older cells that aren't working too well, but they also scavenge the organelles, the little organs inside of the cells, if you will. And so they sort of scrounge those up, clean those up, recycle them, make new ones. And they do that with a mitochondria as well and so now you have better newer more functional mitochondria and you also have more of them so people in ketosis for a number of months

generally have around four times as many mitochondria and they work four times as well so this is a huge huge bonus and boost to your body and And, um, and, and, you know, so there's something going on with just being in the wrong metabolic state of having high insulin, having a bunch of sugar and glucose running around causing glycation and so forth that, that are damaging your mitochondria, damaging, at least damaging the functionality of this recycling process and, and the proliferation of your mitochondria as well. So there's a number of things thatiferation of your mitochondria as well so there's a number of things that can damage your mitochondria um but a significant way of improving them is by being on a ketogenic diet whatever that means to you like it doesn't have to be a carnivore diet

i think that is better if you are on a carnivore diet or at least a very very heavily fatty meat based ketogenic diet. But either way, just getting rid of carbohydrates and sugar and being on a ketogenic diet, we know that this heals and benefits your mitochondria significantly. Heidi, I don't know how many mitochondria each cell has, but basically, as I recall, there's a cell and in the middle is a nucleus and there's mitochondria all around. And they're basically just they, you know, they just produce energy. And like when they get injured, they die and go away.

I don't think you you don't heal the existing ones you have, but you make new ones and you want to eat a diet that makes a lot of them and makes a lot of healthy uh new ones have you have you read this book i i can't remember like five or i think this is the book like five or ten years ago i listened to this audio book oh shit sorry caleb it's called the lives of cells by lewis thomas do you know this book no i haven't read that book if i highly recommend this book there's some shit in there about mitochondria as i recall that makes them seem like they're aliens like i don't even think that they have the same dna and now the rest of your body there's something very very trippy about these these cats living in us but this is a really cool book and you realize how important it is to make a very

you want a very hospitable environment for these guys that are living in us they're a trip yeah they are it really is a symbiotic relationship it is thought that you know hundreds of millions of years ago maybe even you know half a billion years ago um that certain cells sort of like you know ate another so that's how cells work right they're going to eat other cells and things like that uh And this one just ate this one, but this one stayed alive in there and actually helped, you know, the workings of the cell. And so that became, you know, eukaryotic cells. So there's a difference between eukaryotic cells and prokaryotic cells. There's just sort of the different sort of more ancient kind of cells and the more modern kinds of cells that can produce, you know, multi-celled organisms with all a bunch of different functioning tissues. And so's the thing, mitochondria are thought to be a completely different form of life

early on. And then they sort of came in, their DNA is different. It's passed down from the maternal line. You get your mitochondria from your mom, but you get half of the mitochondrial DNA from your dad as well, because the mitochondrial DNA, it only has like 34 genes in the mitochondria itself. There is DNA in the mitochondria, but they actually used to have a lot more DNA and they've actually planted that into the nucleus, um, uh, proper. And so there's actually a lot more mitochondrial genes that are in the nucleus. So you actually do get half of those genes from your dad. It's not just, it's not, not only coming from your mom and, um, which I thought was sort

of interesting, but yeah, the mitochondria, they do a lot more, you know, there's, there's a few hundred of them to over a thousand. So if you're in a ketogenic cell in each cell, each cell. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. There's hundreds to over 1,000. And people that are on a ketogenic diet are going to have, oh, Jesus Christ. Yeah, so hundreds of thousands. Well, you don't even know if that's true. So we'll split the difference between you and this thing. Well, yeah, I may have misremembered, but that was part of my memory.

split the difference between you and this thing. Well, yeah, I may have misremembered, but that was, that was one of my memory. But in any case, they have a lot of these things and you get a lot more when you're, um, uh, when you're in ketosis. And the thing is that they don't just make energy. They actually are very mobile. They move around your cells. And so there's this sort of this internal structure in your cells. These are just little basically pipes that go all over the place and sort of keep this internal structure together, just like your own bones would keep you together. And so these track along those little bones and pipelines and they go down. So they go down to this area and this organelle and they produce ATP to make this function. They're not just dumping out ATP and that's just free floating. It's targeted. And so

they're going to certain areas and they, like in your brain, you know, they're going to certain areas and they're releasing ATP so that this will release neurotransmitters at this time and in this way. And so they're actually the workers. You can think of it as like workers in a factory. They're going around actually using the different machines in your cell to get things going and get things moving. And so they're very, very important. And so if these things are slower and not really doing their proper job, they're not going to get to where they need to go in time. They're not going to produce as much energy. It's going to be a day late and a dollar short.

And so that's going to have serious repercussions, especially if that's happening on a larger scale. I mean, look at, you know, you have a hundred thousand of these things in a cell instead of 600,000 and the hundred thousand you have, or, you know, slowly limping along and not producing a bunch, a bunch of energy. And that's going on in all 2 trillion of your neurons in your brain. You know, that, that's, that's, you know, that, that compounds very, very quickly. There's a very interesting book from professor Chris Palmer, who's a psychiatrist at Harvard. He wrote a book called brain energy. And really what it is,

it's a masterclass on mitochondria and how it functions. And when it, Can I read it and understand it or do I have to be like you? Like, can I, No, no, no. i can no no it's written it's written to the layperson you know it's not it's not a technical manual okay and so um you know it's uh it's a master class on on how these mitochondria work and when they stop working what that does and he's specifically looking at um you know mental disorders and even schizophrenia psychiatric serious psychiatric disorders and he's fine he's found in his practice at harvard that he puts people on a ketogenic diet their schizophrenia goes away right i so believe it i you yeah i so believe it yeah and so we dug

in tom cruise was right right when he jumped on the couch and went crazy, he was right. What did he say at the time? He was loving it. I just remember he got canceled because he told, you know, 20, 30 years ago, he told Brooke Shields, like, hey, get off the psychiatric meds and fucking work on your diet. Oh, did he? And the world turned on him.

Yeah. Didn't something like that happen, Caleb? Like he was like trying to end it's crazy whenever you try to empower people you get in trouble yeah well like like uh gary fetke and tim noakes yeah you know they're like hey this is how you get better you don't need a bunch of expensive drugs oh absolutely not and noakes was a carbohydrate addict he was a world-class uh triathlete yeah and he was he was a he was a world-class triathlete. Yeah, and he was a world-renowned sports physiologist and a sports medicine doctor. And he was one of the main proponents and probably the originator of, you know, you need carbs to burn carbs and you have to have all these carbs and all these sorts of things. And he says he feels really bad because he's like, I've been lying to people for 30 years, you know? I know, shamed her it's like hey i'm giving you advice on how to get better and now you shame

someone yeah yeah and um i think i think of it as you're you're running towards the you're running towards a cliff and it's a really foggy day and you don't see that the cliff is coming i'm more than okay if someone yells at me, Sevan, you fucking idiot, stop running. How dare you call me fucking idiot? And then I run off the side of the cliff. I'm perfectly okay. Do whatever it takes to stop me.

Tom, you're going to love the response to this, Tom. Dr. Anthony, what do you eat for breakfast? Nothing, usually. Dr. Anthony, what do you eat for lunch? Yeah, usually nothing. Dr. Anthony, what do you eat for dinner? Big-ass steak. And then what do you have for dessert dr anthony glory do you um and then you

just drink water preferably rain water well you would yeah if you get it um but uh yeah just water yeah just water and meat so so when i'm hungry i eat i eat meat and's it, you know? So if I'm- Do you take a Tupperware with you when you're doing your residency? Do you have a Tupperware with like chopped up pieces of steak and you throw a couple in? I have, yeah. Like when I'm able to like actually get to the gym

and work out. Yeah, there you go. I like that one. That was what I did. It was just like, yeah, like, what does the caption on that one says? If you look up on it. Heap of meat with melted butter.

Follow me for more recipe ideas. Yeah. Great recipe. Yeah. So, yeah, so I would do that. Like if I was if I were to be hungry during the day, I would just do exactly what that picture shows. You know, I cut up a steak and a couple of ste and I'd put that into a container and bring it with me and just eat it. If I'm working out a lot, I'll be more hungry.

I'll have a bigger demand for food and nutrients. So I'll probably be hungry twice a day. Normally, when you're eating high density nutrition, you don't need to eat as much or as often. And so if I eat a big meal at night of fatty meat, like a ribeye, and I eat until I'm full, I eat until I naturally comfortably want to stop, then I'm usually not hungry for another 24 hours. So I wake up in the morning, I feel great, I just get up and go saves me a lot of time. I don't have to like make breakfast and try to get something to eat before I'm running out the door. You know, during the day, I don't have to stop for lunch, which is very convenient because normally

my days are just crazy and I don't have time to stop for lunch. And so, you know, afterwards I can go to the gym and work out and I'm not just crashing because I'm just dying of hunger. And then I go home and I eat amazing steak. If I'm working out a lot, I will want more. And so maybe I'll have to sort of bring a steak with me and sort of eat that during the day when I can. But the plus side on that is that I get a lot out of my workouts. And when I'm able to feed myself and give my body as much food as it needs, I put on muscle very very easily and so i can put on weight just lean muscle mass very very easily if i'm able to get enough enough food but normally uh i'm good with just just eating once a day

are you aware that you are on a um different agenda than other people i don't know if agenda is the right word but like smokers the way uh we operate i used to smoke cigarettes we move from place to place looking for a place to smoke cigarettes that's how all of us operate so oh i'm gonna drive over to anthony's house and then we're gonna go hit a round of golf while i'm driving over there i'll have a cigarette then he doesn't like me smoking in his car so then i'll have another cigarette once we get out of the car and we're at the golf course and and coffee drinkers do the same thing they they plot their day and carbohydrate addicts do it too whether they know it or not their whole day is plotted around these treats so since you don't have those

you're on a different um yeah you're bouncing off, you react to different things. Like, are you aware of that? Like when you're with regular people, like, oh shit, these people are summoned by different spirits than me. Yeah, no, I have noticed that. And I really like that. You know, I've noticed that so many people are just, you know, really beholden to, you you know just meals and eating all the time and they alcohol whatever their thing is whatever spirit's telling them you must come to me come yeah and it's just you know so many people are reliant on break on on even surrounding their social

activities with with food you know going to breakfast brunch lunch dinner coffee drinks you know snacks dessert all these sorts of things because we're just eating all the time, you know, we're like, well, how do we, how do we socially interact? Well, I guess we can, we can eat a meal together. We can do this together. So now you can't, you know, you can't do anything social without incorporating food or drink. Now I'm so happy to be outside of that. You know, I, I, when I'm, when I'm hanging out with Bill, I just, we go and do things, you know, like I'm not beholden to that. I don't need to eat four times a day. I don't need to snack and carry something in my bag or, you know, or, or, or a power drink or whatever, because, you know, I just, I just go. And so, um, you know, I have so much more free time.

You know, I figured I have several hours of the day that I'm not thinking about preparing or eating food and all that, all that time is is mine and so i can be much more productive and just enjoy my day more and when you know i want to go out with someone i just say you know they say oh let's go to lunch so this well why don't we go on a hike why don't we go to the beach why don't we go right now just do something you know and and so i just you know i do things and i do see that and i see how people are so um you know beholden and and enslaved by by their hungers and desires and not not not that they're you know horrible drug addicts or anything like that it's just that's just normal you have to eat yeah anthony let's go out for a drink and really what i'm saying is is like hey do you have a drinking addiction like i do and you want to go take care of it together i mean let's just be frank i mean i mean i did i i have friends who when they're around i'm excited

because i know we're gonna fucking drink a lot like i just i have friends that when i know they're around we're gonna play a lot of frisbee and i get excited i just know that yeah i know when i'm with my boys i'm gonna laugh a lot so i want to be with my boys. But yeah, it's a trip. What about this and the kids? So I introduce my kids to everything very early. Like I would give my kids – are you okay on time? Am I what? Sorry?

Are you okay? Yeah, yeah. It's fine. So I would give my kid just like they were breastfeeding, right? And I would give them just a – while my family was sitting around eating steak, I would just give him a piece of steak and I would let him teeth on it. Right. And, um, and, you know, the conventional wisdom was not to let your kid eat honey or peanut

butter, but I gave that shit to my kid way early, way, way early. And later on I found, cause it just didn't make sense to me. Like, what if your kid's allergic? I'm like, no, that doesn't make any sense. And later on, I find out the studies show that the more you introduce your kids to peanuts and honey, the less likely they are significantly to have allergies to it later in life. And basically, you know, that's kind of the CrossFit methodology that Greg Glassman said, put an organ, uh, organism through stress and it adapts. So I knew like, Hey,

I mean, to a point of safety, right? Yeah. this thing if you – so would you say that – do you agree that you shouldn't give – and by the way, all the kids that I know whose parents raised them vegan, something's wrong with the kids. Like their hair doesn't look like my hair. Their eyes don't look like your eyes. They don't have this – something's missing. There's like a dimness or a dustiness or a brittleness to them um but but could it go the other way too like that you only gave your kids meat and that they wouldn't be exposed to enough uh adversity that maybe vegetables offer or honey offers or nuts offer and then and then they would

make them weak to it as they're older um well i mean we don't have any data one way or the other on that so as far as allergies are concerned i'm not too sure but i do know that we are carnivores and that that's what all the best evidence shows that we and our ancestors have been eating meat exclusively meat for nearly three million years and and there, there's a ton of data on that. And, uh, we can go into that if you like, but it's very interesting and it's very compelling. And, you know, so if you are going to be, if you want to develop properly and develop into the best that you're, you know, that your body can develop into genetically. You have to give your body exactly what it's designed to eat and exclude all the things that are going to cause harm

because these defense chemicals do cause harm. And so, you know, maybe it's like, okay, well, you can build up a defense to something. Well, you can build up a tolerance and a defense to smoking and nicotine and alcohol and cocaine. Is that good for a two year old to do that? Well, it builds that up for some reason down the road. I don't know. I think that it's probably best to just eliminate out toxic elements that do cause harm and only focus on the things that are giving extremely good nutrition. To the vegan side of things, I think that that's quite harmful to kids. Um, there was a, there was a group, I think it's called, uh, I think it's spec or something

like that. It's an Italian, uh, pediatric, uh, pediatrician group. And, uh, and they came out with a, with a position statement on, on vegan and vegetarian diets. And they said, look, these are, these are deplete and deficient in very basic fundamental nutrients like you cannot call something a good diet if it doesn't even have basic nutrition for life and so so putting a kid on this is tantamount to child abuse because you there are not enough nutrients in there and they're not even getting into the whole plant toxin side of things it's just it just doesn't have the requisite nutrients for for life and so you have to take supplements and some people don't take supplements there are a number

of of examples around the world where vegan parents have been put in jail because their kids have died on a vegan diet and um you know people are being conned into thinking that a vegan diet is not only acceptable and okay if you don't like the thought of eating animals and you can get an equivalent amount of nutrition but they're saying this better that this gives a benefit and this is the best thing you can do for your kid and these people are literally their kids are dying i think that's just absolutely just appalling and shameful and so you know you you cannot get basic nutrition. You have to take supplements to just, just survive, right? If you have to take supplements, then by definition,

your diet is deficient. How can a deficient diet be what we evolved on? That, that makes no sense. So that, that just goes right out the window for me. Um, so you don't take any, you, do you, goes right out the window for me um so you don't take any you do you don't you don't take any supplements no uh you shouldn't have no creatine no no there's tons of creatine in red meat there's tons of creatine no vitamin c no i don't need it no what if you what if you get sick will you just get maybe just get some vitamin c and just just take some extra if you get sick i i really have not gotten sick though i've gotten covid twice i was sick for a day and then that was it during that i did take um zinc and vitamin d um i think magnesium a couple times just because you know a lot of studies said that that was that was good so i just did that and i took an aspirin you know because of the whole clotting side of things

and that was it no i don't so i don't i don't take vitamin c or anything like that and that was really the only time i've been sick in years and years and years and it was just a day it was just a day and then i was sort of tired for a week after that yeah yeah i mean and how long ago was that um i think i got the first one maybe like eight months ago something like that and then and then i got you know sort of another another round of it just uh like a month ago something like that yeah about a month ago something blew through cal. That was crazy. My whole family, not,

not me, but my whole family was sick for like, it seemed like two months, like just taking turns getting sick. Oh wow. Yeah. The kids, it doesn't matter to the kids.

They just grow up and then go outside and play. Like they, they don't care, but to the adults, it kind of works them. Yeah. Yeah. I,

I, I felt fine, especially with the second time around. I was, I was much less knocked back by it. I was sort of you know just feeling a bit i felt like i had a cold really you know and yeah that's what it seems like with the kids they just get a fever and um and no none of my family's has well me and my wife are you know as kids they gave us all sorts of drugs but none of my kids none my kids are, have any injections or any vaccines. And they just don't, we don't do that. But, um, it is interesting to see how differently

they handled it than the rest of the world, or because most of our cohort is, you know, supplemented. And so we, you know, we have this study we get to see of our kids versus the other kids and it's uh i'm glad we've chosen the path of not taking drugs and another thing you'll find this weird another thing is like so we don't none of my kids had any sugar added sugar until they were over two years old so for your first birthday your second birthday you don't get like cake or you don't get ice cream my kids have never drank juice once in their life they've obviously never had. There's they're two six-year-olds and an eight. We've probably done some things that would make you roll over in your grave. But for the most part, we're probably in the top 1% of 1% of 1%. Like, but now my kids, um, they can't

handle sugar added sugar. So if at Halloween they have one or two pieces of candy, they start to feel really, really bad. And I did have a family come over to my house one time and the lady at for dessert, she pulled out a bag of Oreo cookies for her kids to feed them at my house. And I go, what are you doing? I go, you know, better than this. Why are you feeding your kid Oreo cookies? And she goes, well, I want it's, I'm like inoculating them from sugar. Cause I don't want them like to, if they eat no sugar now that when they get older, I swear to God, she told me this when they get older, if they, they won't be able to handle the sugar.

Right. I'm like, dude, how the fuck does that logic work? How about you just never give them, how about, how about they just not be, it's kind of like the joke you made earlier.

Like, should you inoculate your kids from heroin and nicotine? Like by introducing it at a young age? Like what? Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think that's that's what i

think about anything that that uh can be considered harmful like just keep it away like peanuts and honey that's it yeah just okay so i was laughing at her and you were laughing at me i'm like this dumb bitch gave her kid sugar and you're like thinking you had this dumb dickhead gave his kid peanuts and honey well but you know but i mean the thing is though you know we're all we're all doing the best that we can you know with what we have and and uh you have a great disposition around that too i don't know how you stay so calm you are you have a great disposition i mean you're in the battle on the front lines when it comes to food yeah um and and you you do you do get a lot of pushback i get a lot of people just losing their mind, you know, just cussing at me.

You can't be a doctor. And I'm like, okay, well, you're definitely not a doctor. So I don't really need to, you know, you qualify me. And, you know, but people can get quite upset. You know, like you were saying, you know, just people just lose their mind about just saying, hey, don't eat carbs. And it's like, how dare you, sir? It makes no sense. You know, they have no problem saying, just saying hey don't eat carbs and it's like how dare you sir it makes no sense you know they have no problem saying oh you shouldn't eat meat you shouldn't eat red meat and all that sort of stuff there's no good studies none that show that red meat's

bad for you in fact the university of washington just just published a meta-analysis and literature review looking at all of these so-called studies saying that that red meat was bad and and cause a cause of cancer something like that they found that these were these were weak weak studies they were lazy science they were garbage and there's a lot of that there's a lot of junk science in medicine some so many of the studies are just junk science they are are worthless. And most of those are in the nutritional medicine side of things. And most of those say that meat's bad and vegetables are good. They're junk, they're garbage. They need to be thrown out. And, you know, and, and so on this weak, weak, weak, nonsensical evidence, they say, don't ever eat meat. Don't ever eat fat, all that sort of things.

The thing that we've evolved to eat, the thing that we've been eating for literally millions of years and yet you know cancer and heart disease are on the rise as we're eating less and less and less of this stuff and yet they're still blaming it on the meat and the fat something we've eaten for forever how can an ancient diet cause a new disease makes no sense people don't that's a strong line right there how does the ancient diet cause new new disease? Makes no sense. People don't. That's a strong line right there. How does the ancient diet cause new disease? That's such a strong line. Yeah.

But you know, it really doesn't make sense. And yet they have these very weak studies. And a lot, a lot of these studies have actually been proven to be fraudulent. You know, the, the saying that cholesterol caused heart disease from the USDA in 1977,

that was a position of the, of the USDA that changed everything. And so everyone's basing all of this stuff on that. Well, the University of California, San Francisco Medical School actually published in the Journal of the American Medical Association, one of the top medical journals in the world in 2016, actual internal memos from the sugar company back in the fifties and sixties, detailing how there was evidence and studies showing that sugar caused heart disease and they're like we need to cover this up and so they're in their own words they detailed how they paid off three harvard professors to falsify data and publish fraudulent studies

to make it appear as if cholesterol caused heart disease when it was really sugar and to exonerate sugar and one of those professors was named head of the USDA. And it was that guy who authored and published the 1977 declaration saying that cholesterol caused heart disease. It was all con. It was all garbage. And so, you know, you know that now that's a matter of record. This is not up for debate. You know, you have to throw it out. Even the Framingham study. Yeah. The Framinghamham study how about like crazy right yeah so that was the thing i i was taught the framingham study my first year in medical school he's just like you know this 30-year perspective you know cohort study they're looking at all these

people following for decades and you know the american heart association which was tied up with another one of these paid shills or the sugar company, Ansel Keys, who's just a complete monster. I just, everything that guy's ever done, it should be thrown out because the guy's a known crook. The American Heart Association, they misreported the Framingham study. So what I was taught was actually what the American Heart Association put forward, which is not what was actually published in the Framingham study. So they said that the Framingham study showed that the more cholesterol, higher your cholesterol levels were, the higher your heart disease rate was and stroke and cardiovascular risk, right? In fact, the Framingham study showed the opposite. So there's a- Especially in women who were over 65, right's the part i remember actually women who were over 65 who had the highest

cholesterol lived the longest yeah and they'd taken a correlate and made it turned into a cause and fucked everyone yeah well and that's the thing so so you know they they misrepresented it they they said it was exactly the opposite yeah and because it was the american heart association this made it into textbooks this was in in my textbook in medical school, right? That's insane. You paid $50,000 that year to learn that. I know, dude, more than that, unfortunately. To push that lie. Yeah, exactly. And so, you know, but thankfully, probably one of the most important things

that I did learn in medical school, certainly that year was one of my professors said to us, said, by the time you graduate medical school, everything you learn here will be obsolete. You have to keep learning and keep learning and keep looking at studies and keep educating yourself, you know? And so that's what I've been doing. And, and so, and that thankfully I've been able to sort of see that a lot of these things that we've based a lot of- It gets you canceled, boy. You better watch out, Anthony.

You can, yeah. And so a lot of these things that we learn in medical school, a lot of these things we take for granted, when you look back at the origins of them, they're based on very flimsy evidence, if not outright lies, or just a guess. The whole thing is like, well, if you eat a lot of meat, if you eat a lot of protein, that's bad for your kidneys. That was a guess. You know, they say that when you eat a lot of protein, you cleave off the amino group,

the nitrogen group from the amino acid, right? And then you turn that into ammonia. Then you turn that into urea. And then you excrete urea. So they think of urea as just a waste product. We just need to get rid of this stuff, right? It builds up in your system, you're trying to get rid of it. So if it builds up, that means it's harder on your kidneys, you're putting your kidneys through stress, your kidneys aren't working as well. That's actually not true. Because when we're in times of stress, when we're in times of infection, our urea goes up as well, but our creatinine stays down and creatinine is actually the marker of how

well your kidneys are functioning. So, you know, if, if your kidney was just not functioning properly and they would both go up, right? But no, one goes up, the other one stays down. And what actually turns out to be the case is that urea is one of your body's strongest antioxidants. And so when you're in a, in a state of stress and infection, you want to increase your urea so that you can help fight off and clean up all, soak up all these free radicals. So it's actually an improvement. You're actually doing better for yourself. But that was the guess was that you're increasing your urea. That will be harder on your kidneys. That will, you know, that will, you know, you don't want to do this if you're in kidney distress right well when they actually did the studies they found the opposite

they found that people that had a higher protein diet actually improved their kidney functions right so you know once you but you know so many doctors that but that's what the literature says so right right the actual studies show that higher protein diets improve kidney function. And yet, I still know doctors today who still say, no, no, you can't eat a lot of protein. Like, why? You clearly haven't looked at the literature. It's just things get repeated so many times. They just believe it.

Maybe doctors, maybe you're not a doctor. I mean, you're obviously a doctor, but maybe you're also something else. Like are doctors by nature the definition of that word doctor, just docents of the medical literature, and they are – which distinguishes them from scientists who are the, maybe the creators of medical literature. And by the way, going back for just, I want to add this for anyone who thinks that he's not, that he's, um, uh, exaggerating or speaking in hyperbole about medical journals, you, you can go right online and you can find robert smith or other editors or ceos of the american journal of medicine the new england journal of medicine the lancet who have openly come out and say just straight up now it's a war in the in the journal industry they will just straight up say you have

to assume everything in the medical journals all of them even the best ones are fake you have to start with the assumption that it's a lie and it's fraudulent. That's known now. That's not like fucking tinfoil hat shit. Anyone can Google that and find that now. It's crazy. It's become nuts. But is it doctors?

You're clearly like the doctors are like, hey, prescribe this, and you're going back and looking at the study. But is that really – is that – are doctors supposed to do that, or have you just kind of gone the extra mile? Doctors are supposed to look at the evidence. It's all supposed to be – They are? They're supposed to vet it? They are, and a lot of them don't.

A lot of them read the book, and they read the guidelines. A lot of them will read the studies as well, but they'll read specific studies in their field, say, you know, but they won't necessarily read all of them. There are certain ones that when you're going through residency and say, these are the, these are the, you know, the hallmark studies in this field. These are the ones you need to know about, you know, but that's, that's curated by whoever's, you know, teaching the program and getting you ready for your board exams. Right. So, so the people who write the board exams have a lot of influence in that because you need to know certain things, you know, in order to pass your boards. And so you're going

to read certain studies. So you're sort of getting cookie cutter educations, right? Yeah. Hopefully it teaches you that you need to read studies in general. We are supposed to be, you know, most, most medical schools would teach you to, to practice evidence-based medicine. But a lot of people, unfortunately think that evidence-based medicine means following the guidelines. That's not what that means. The guidelines are written by law. There's some rules on you in california now

that if you go against the guidelines for covid you're fucked yeah well that's that's here too yeah that's scary right yeah you're not allowed to read you're not it's basically you're not allowed to make your own assessment no which is bad i mean that that that that goes against everything that is medicine you know like you need to be able to have autonomy in your practice. And, you know, because who are these people saying, you know, maybe they're right, maybe they're not, but you know, maybe they're not right. And so the guidelines are written by bureaucrats. They're not there. And, and, and politicians, they're not, they're not written by scientists.

So, so when you have like, We're bought for by pharma, by the way. And I don't mean that like as in some conspiracy or some bad thing. It's the same way that like I buy my kids. Like I pay for my kids' tennis lesson and they do it. Pharma gives the bureaucrats money to run for office and they do their bidding. I'm not even saying it like it's like some nefarious shit. Well, no.

I mean it's not even unknown. I mean it's not even unknown. I mean, it's not a conspiracy. I mean, you can follow the donors' records and things like that. They're all public record. How about 60 Minutes? Did you see that thing? Leslie Stahl, did you see this thing that came out last week? No, I don't think so. So they did a story on a drug.

I think it's called Wegovy. W-E-G-O-V-Y. And they're basically saying when they say, hey, these doctors we're interviewing work for Wegovy and the largest sponsor of this show is the pharmaceutical company that makes Wegovy.

And what we're telling you is that 12-year-olds who are fat should get on this med and if this med doesn't work by the time they're 13 they should go under the knife it's fucking 60 minutes i don't know if you remember as a kid that was like like our parents like god you know what i mean yeah that was like yeah the most most uh respected yeah you know it's like very high uh integrity sort of uh they're just open about it they don't even they like by the way these scientists work for the drug company the drug company sponsors the show okay let's proceed yeah that's crazy they were just open about it they're saying the quiet part out loud you know yes yeah and um you know i guess i guess they

think maybe if they're open about it then then people won't suspect that they're bought and paid for, you know, even though they're telling you, hey, I'm bought and paid for. Oh, that must mean they're sincere and that this is coming from the heart. You know, what about cooking meat? How much should are people overcooking meat? I noticed your meat was pretty red. I, um, I just like the taste of of more rare meat um i like a bit of a sear on the outside but i like it pretty raw in the inside and that's just you know again my taste of just sort of refined and changed and so i just like that taste a bit more um i think you know you do lose some nutrients

when you cook meat that's true um but you also make some more bioavailable. You make the proteins more bioavailable as well. And so you get a bit of a trade-off. what you have to do. There's certainly people that cook meat, you know, well done and have been doing a carnivore diet for years and years and years and do just fine. I, you know, slow cook meat all the time or do like a smoker for like ribs and brisket. That's going to be very, very well done. And that's fine too. The way I think about it is humans have been cooking meat. There's evidence in the fossil record that we've been cooking meat for at least 800,000 years. That's half a million years before homo sapiens existed, right? So we've been cooking meat for a long, long time. And there's other evidence and suggestions that people suggest that actually we've been cooking meat for 1.5 million years and maybe even had longer than that, like 2 million years and maybe even had longer than

that, like 2 million years. Because when the ice sheets came down, when ice ages started about 2 million years ago, humans didn't run away down towards the equator. They went up into it, right? Hard to do if you don't have fire. So, that's the argument that some paleontologists make is that, like Dr. Bill Schindler, he made that that argument he said like you know they they aggressively went into you know the ice sheets you know that's that's difficult to do if you don't have a you know a reliable source of heat and so he thinks that we probably probably had fire long before that but we can reliably say that we had fire for at least 800,000 years. In fact, there's evidence that we had extremely evenly cooked meat as well, meaning that we might have had some sort of rudimentary oven sort of ability 750,000 years ago. so we've been cooking meat for a very very very long time so you know

whatever happens whatever sort of nutrients that we lose or gain by cooking meat i think that are that we've you know we've long adapted to that i think that that's probably okay you know cats are not the same there are studies with um uh dr pottinger back in like the 30s and 40s he looked at cats and they just did not do as well on cooked meat versus raw meat it's still meat but it's the cooked meat they they were not doing nearly as well and then each generation it got subsequently worse they had lower bone mineral density and after three generations like their their heads were deformed their brains weren't developed properly, and their bodies were smaller, getting all these broken bones and things because their bones were so soft. And then they stopped being able to breed at all.

They couldn't have a fourth generation. And the raw meat cats were just thriving the whole way through. thriving the whole way through. And then they found that if you started feeding the third generation of the cooked meat cats raw meat, you could get them a little better and you could get them, you know, producing offspring again. But they didn't just go all of a sudden develop into, you know, what the raw meat cats were doing the whole time. It took four generations before they could get back to where the raw meat cats were the whole time. It took four generations before they could, could get back to where the raw meat cats were the whole time. So there's this, this huge epigenetic effect that actually, that actually lasts generations to eating the wrong thing. So, you know, it's,

it's something that, you know, if we were that sensitive to it, you know, you should sort of notice it, but I don't, I don't think, I don i don't think that we are um but it would be interesting is to to do a study where you give someone a pound of raw meat and i fuck who might have make up the study but some study that showed the difference in defecation between people who eat raw meat and people who eat cooked meat like how much how much yeah it goes out like like people who eat raw meat poop less. Yeah. Would be my hypothesis because they absorb more. I, when I did the carnivore and I still, I wouldn't,

by far not strict about it now, but now after talking to you, I think you're going to jumpstart me again, but I couldn't believe it was all unicorn poops for just months. Like just toilet, like it became unnecessary to use toilet paper. And I became so regular, everything got better in my life, just everything. I did start getting a little cold in my fingertips and my feet. And that's why I started moving away from it. That's actually how I came across Paul Saladino. Um, what, what about women in carnivore? Yeah, it optimizes, uh, their health too i mean just you know humans are are um you know we're all one species so so males and females you know and so like the female of

any species are going to eat the same as male species adults just eat the same food you know mammals mammalian children will will drink you know milk but once they are weaned from milk they eat they eat the exact same thing as every other adult you know and so you know males and females they might have a different amount that they eat and you know these men are gonna might or usually bigger not always um so but that but that's it you know like female lions and male lions they eat the same thing and so um you know we're we are one species and that that's another argument that people make well different people or have different optimal diets and things like that that that cannot be the case if you're saying really no they can't really think about it this way think see if you can think of any examples in nature where two members of the

same species have different optimal diets so venus fly traps everywhere they just like flies they just eat flies that's what they do they just eat yeah well that's it you know because and cats everywhere the all the different cats the panthers and all like you never see like there's no like some weird panther somewhere that just eats fruit no they all they all just but but the thing is though is you might you first of all i can't think of any feline that's not an obligate carnivore but you could have maybe a feline that sort of a difference so there's different primates that have different different diets right so a gorilla is very very you know clearly herbivorous right chimpanzee is what's that mean

they eat plants and animals no no just herbivorous so just just just uh yes like the only protein they get is they accidentally eat an insect other than that they just eat plants well but but that's the but that's the interesting thing is that herbivores actually get the majority of the nutrients that they absorb is still fat and protein because they're eating a bunch of plant material but that's not what they're absorbing you know because they can't absorb it no vertebrate animal can break down fiber so what they're actually doing is they're actually feeding the gut bacteria right so it's the bacteria in their gut that eats the fiber and so that's what it subsists on and then they have waste product is short-chain fatty acids which are actually 100 saturated and so even gorillas that just eat green leaves they

get 70 of their calories from saturated fat because that's the waste product of these bacteria but then the bacteria die off and the animal breaks those down and absorbs those for protein so even a gorilla that just eats those leaves, they're still getting 70-30 fat to protein. Wait a second. This is fucking crazy that I've never heard this before. You're telling me that, like when I eat food, my body uses that food to make energy. To make energy. You're telling me that there's a creature living inside of the stomach of gorillas that eats the food they eat and that this creature shits what it shits out is actually what feeds the gorilla.

That's it. Holy shit. Yeah. So all herbivores. No. Hey, so. So. Wow.

I had no fucking idea.'s fucking brilliant you're feeding this creature inside you this bacteria it eats the food that you ate and then it takes a deuce in you and that's your nutrients yeah wow that is fucking brilliant talk about a homeboy um so so so the so um i had a guy on the other day had the most insane body this uh 53 year old jujitsu practitioner and he's vegan but um he uh um he eats for based on like to maintain his gut biome and my i was telling my wife i was having you on and she said ask him about that she's like because that's the whole thing with why that's why the plant people are so big on plants because they said you need the plants to to for back for the bacteria. I mean, if you're a gorilla, you're just like, you know, just tell my wife she's full of shit. The thing is, is that our understanding of the gut biome is very poor at the moment. It's getting better, but, you know, it's not even, you know, it's not even, well, it's certainly not proven that, you know, having a certain gut biome changes your health, right?

It could very well be that the things that you're eating affect your health and just happen to bring about a certain gut biome people on a carnivore diet and there have been studies done show that they have very diverse microbiome and like all the ones they say well these these gut microbes and things like that you know having more of these are better people that eat a high meat diet and a carnivore diet have have of them. People who eat more carbohydrates and fiber, they feed certain gut microbes that are more associated with autoimmune diseases and multiple sclerosis and things like that. Also feeding like SIBOs or small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. There are actually studies that have been published just this past year that actually

show that people going on specifically a carnivore diet can cure SIBO just through dietary measures. The argument that some people make for fiber is they say, well, you have to eat fiber because you have to feed these certain microbes, actually very similar microbes to the ones in a gorilla's gut or a cow's rumen, and they make butyrate, right? So, these are those little fatty acids that these bacteria will crap out. And people say, well, that's what your enterocytes need. They need this butyrate that that's what fuels your gut. Well, first of all, if you don't eat any fiber, your intestinal lining doesn't just shed off and die and you don't just die of a necrotic

bowel, right? Because I haven't, I haven't had fiber in a decade. So, you know, where's that? And so, but the thing is, is it makes butyrate. Well, yeah, well, we know that, you know where's that yeah um and so but the thing is is it makes butyrate uh well yeah well we know that you know you're eating as a sort of fiber that there's certain bacteria that can break that down uh but it's not like enough to like fuel you it's not enough to to really do anything for you um and what what people forget to realize is that one of the main ketone bodies is is butyric acid right and so when you're in ket, you make tons and tons and tons of butyrate, right? So, you will already feed your gut lining, your enterocytes. Also, butter. Butter gets its name from the high quantity of butyrate in it, right? So, you know, you're not going to

starve your intestinal lining by not eating fiber, you know, in fact, quite the opposite. We used to have, and so this is, this is, did you look at that comparative anatomy, right? So, animal, different primates, right? So, a bunch of different primates, some primates are omnivores that eat sort of, you know, mixed like a, like a chimpanzee. Chimpanzees eat other chimpanzees and monkeys they hunt and they kill and they eat that's not cool that's not it's pretty it's pretty gnarly too because they'll like eat them alive i've seen videos of this they it is not okay and jane goodall actually saw all this as well when this started coming out in the last sort of decade or so, they're like, wow, these, these things are just wild. And then she's just like, oh yeah. Oh, I saw all of that.

But she was just like, if I came back and reported that all of my work would have been thrown out, they wouldn't have believed me. And so, um, because it was, it was too, it was too far past what people thought about chimpanzees. So apparently she like actually documented all of that behavior, but just didn't say anything about it because she, she didn't think people were ready for it. Um, but yeah, so they're just, yeah, they, they, they, they hunt and they eat meat. Um, and then there are, um, you know, other, other primates, like the oldest examples, oldest living primates are, are, you know, just pure carnivores as well. So, so there is a so you know going back to what i was saying before you can have different you know uh primates that have you know a different optimal diet but you're not going to find two gorillas that have different optimal diets you're not going to find

two zebras that have a different optimal diet or two lions you know what i mean um but you know just the comparative anatomy side of things, look at gorillas, look at chimpanzees. They're what's called hind gut digesters. So like a rumen ruminant animals, more for gut digesters, they have these multiple stomachs and all these different sorts of things. And so they digest food in different areas, but primates are hind gut digesters and, you know, like, uh, koalas are hind gut digesters as well.

So they have a blind pouch. It's very long cecum it's like this four foot long cecum and it's just sort of a blind out pouching of the gut and just sort of sits there and that's where all this fiber will pack in it just stuffs in there and it just sits there slowly breaking down well that's in us that's our appendix, just like a little finger-sized organ, right? Because it's vestigial. It's lost that ability, right? Because millions and millions and millions of years ago— Wait, do you really believe that they're in vestigial shit?

Well, so the thing is that— I'm not judging you, by the way. I heard that term recently, and I'm like, there's no fucking way there's anything in me that's vestigial. Fuck you. I need it all so the thing is it can absolutely have a use what i mean that vestigial is is the functionality of breaking down fiber okay okay okay right yeah no no your body is very efficient you're not gonna you're not gonna spend energy maintaining an organ or a system that doesn't need to be there, right? Brandon Waddell, I don't call my finger-sized organ my appendix. I know.

Let's give Dr. Anthony some grace. He's in Australia. They're different there. So the major function of this cecum, which is really what it is, uh, was to break down fiber. So we've lost that ability, right? Okay. Okay. May have, may have other, other sorts of abilities. Well, that explains if I need to take a deuce, I can literally just eat. I can just go to the store, get a clamshell of anything, arugula spit. It doesn't matter. And I can take handfuls of it and, and, and make it into ball and eat it

and my and the and the the store that sells them is two miles from my house by the time i get home i i i i have to run to the bathroom and i just take a one beautiful salt like it just plunges me which makes sense because i have no ability to process it right you have no ability to process it you cannot break it down yeah and it's causing irritation your body's trying to process it. You cannot break it down. Yeah. And it's causing irritation. Your body's trying to get it out. You know? Well, not me. I'm Armenian. Nothing irritates me.

Yeah. I can eat. I'm like a human trash compactor. Yeah. But that's the thing. And you're exactly right. You know, we cannot break down fiber. We cannot use it nutritionally.

And that was actually the argument for why we should eat it back in the 80s. They said, hey, you want to lose weight. My mom used to tell me or tells me. Yeah. Well, that's it. There was the celery diet back in the 80s they said hey you want to lose my mom used to tell me or tells me yeah well that's it dude there was the celery diet back in the 80s they said you you know you you burn more calories just moving this celery through your body then you're going to get from the celery so that was the argument for eating uh vegetables back in the 80s was that you don't get any nutrition from them so you can just eat a lot of them it's it's just free food it's free it's free food because it doesn't have any calories it doesn't have any nutrition and so. So you can just eat a lot of them. It's just free food. It's free, it's free food because it doesn't have any calories. It doesn't have any nutrition.

And so you won't get fat. Right. And then it'll make you feel like you're full because it has all this bulk in it because of the fiber, but you can't break it down. You can't use it and you don't get any calories from it. Isn't that great? I was like, okay, well, why don't you just eat a plastic bag? Right. And now we know that plants are poisoning you. Well, that's it. You know, I mean like mean like and you shouldn't you shouldn't just eat something unless it provides you benefit you shouldn't eat something because it doesn't provide you benefit that makes no sense you know most animals in wild are struggling to get enough to eat you know as opposed to just eating dirt so it just fills them up so oh my god it's throwing it's throwing them. That's crazy, you know? And so, you know, but, but people got worse, you know, the obesity rate

tripled since that those recommendations came out, you know, because it actually doesn't make you lose weight. It actually makes you gain weight. It makes you put on inflammation, makes you, uh, you know, damages your body in multiple different ways. So we have all of these different autoimmune diseases and chronic diseases that have all of these different autoimmune diseases and chronic diseases that have all come about and all increased exponentially since we started eating less red meat and less fat and eating more fruits and vegetables. And of course, a lot more carbs and a lot more sugar. This is all very, very damaging to our bodies. And we're told that it's a health food. We're told that, you know, eating a bunch of fiber and eating all this sort of stuff, that's really good for you. And you'll

lose a bunch of weight. No one loses weight. They don't lose weight. They feel like garbage. Right. Their health goes to, goes to shit. And, you know, and then they, you know, and, and they don't actually lose weight. There are people struggling with their weight for decades, you know, and, uh, and they're, and they're doing all the things that they, that they're supposed to do. I was talking to, um, Dr. Sarah Zaldivar. She is a, she has a PhD in nutrition and, you know, she was having health issues and she was having difficulty losing weight and she has a PhD in nutrition. And she was like, I was doing everything exactly the way it was supposed to straight by the book is like, I'm a PhD. I should know exactly how to do this. And she was just getting worse and worse and worse.

And eventually she's just like, okay, this has to be wrong, you know? And so she started looking into it and now she's a big proponent of a carnivore diet and, you know, reverse all of her health issues, you know, trimmed up is in, you know, a very good shape now. And so, you know, this is, you know know this is what um the physicist richard feinman said said it doesn't matter how brilliant your theory is and it doesn't matter how smart you are if it doesn't agree with experiment it's wrong right so it doesn't matter what all the textbooks say it doesn't matter whatever you know consensus isn't always right yeah right and um yeah it's almost as if, you know, reality, you know, wasn't begotten by vote, you know, by popular demand.

You know, there are just certain things that are right and certain things that are wrong. And just because there's a study that says something's right or wrong does not actually make it true. It just means that that's a piece of evidence that you can look at. But then you put it into practice and it doesn't do what it's supposed to do. It's wrong. Just throw it out. It's wrong, you know? And so, and that's exactly what these, these things, um, have shown themselves to be is wrong. You know, they said fat and cholesterol are bad for you. Well, we know that that was fraudulent. And even if we didn't know that was fraudulent, we know that the experiment run on the American people and people around the world, hundreds of millions of people, now billions of people around the world, show that it gave the exact opposite results, right?

We reduced red meat and cholesterol by 30%. We increased fruits and vegetables by 30% and 40% respectively, increased grains and sugars even more than that. You know, what were the results? I thought you were talking about a different experiment that was just run on billions of people well you know that's the thing we have a lot of experiments run on us and you have to look at the evidence and you have to and you have to protect yourself and make your own decisions this is why it's so important for people to be able to make their own decisions because you know for the previous experiment when they they said everyone you know change how you eat you know we we did exactly what they said we should do

and heart disease rates tripled right so how can you say that cholesterol causes heart disease when you reduce cholesterol and heart disease rates increase right if anything you can say that it's protective and in fact we have we have studies now in the last decade with hundreds of thousands of people showing that it is protective. You know, the Journal of the American College of Cardiology actually published in 2020 a large meta-analysis looking at all the data to do with saturated fat and found that, you know what, actually, it has no relationship between, there's no relationship between saturated fat, no negative relationship between saturated fat and heart disease. In fact,

they found an inverse relationship between saturated fat and stroke. So people who ate less saturated fat, higher rates of stroke, more saturated fat, lower rates of stroke, right? And then there were studies looking at LDL cholesterol, and again, found no negative association with LDL cholesterol and and uh heart disease in fact they found an inverse relationship so people had higher ldl cholesterol had less heart attacks and vice versa okay and this was another large meta-analysis you know published in major major journals so and there's so much more there's so so much more i did i did a i did a debate with um sort of five other cardiologists. I was the only non-cardiologist on board.

And, um, there were three of us that were arguing that we got cholesterol completely wrong and we were correct. And then there were other people that were short of the traditional mindset. And, uh, and, you know, so I just made my case and I, and I made a, um, um, I made a, uh, a video after that, just, just called, um, the facts about cholesterol and heart disease. And, you know, just went through all these studies and all the history and everything like that. And so, uh, it's, it's, it's very, very, very robust now that, you know, well, first of all, we know that cholesterol never was a cause of heart disease. That's just a historical

fact, but now we have studies showing that it's actually protective. That's just a historical fact. But now we have studies showing that it's actually protective. It's actually good for you. Every single cell in your body is made out of cholesterol. Eighth grade biology, I saw that in a textbook. And I remember all the membranes, cell membranes of our body are all made out of cholesterol. And we're thinking, I was like, how can cholesterol be bad for you? We are cholesterol. How can it be bad for us? We're literally made out of cholesterol. Our brains are made out of cholesterol. The myelination around your axons are cholesterol. You don't get enough of this stuff. Your brain atrophies and it doesn't, and it can't propagate signals as fast. You get dementia. You get, you get, you know,

age-related degeneration of your brain. So every single one of your your hormones well most of them are made out of cholesterol as well you know there's about 27 intermediary intermediary uh hormones between cholesterol and testosterone every single one of those is is its own unique individual hormone that has its own purposes in your body every single one is derived from cholesterol. Cortisol is derived from cholesterol, estrogen, progestogens, mineralocorticoids, glucocorticoids, everything made in your adrenals above your kidneys. All of these things are all made from cholesterol. How is cholesterol this toxic substance? That makes no damn sense. You know, we are so reliant on cholesterol. It is such an important molecule to, to vilify it and say that it

was bad for us when we've been eating fat and, uh, and cholesterol for millions of years makes absolutely no sense, especially when heart disease just did not exist. We didn't even, we didn't even know about it. We didn't track it, you know, before the midnight, uh, mid 1900s makes no damn sense. Can I off top? Are you having fun on the show? Is this a good show? Okay, good. Yeah. That was good. All right. All right. Well then we're done. Hey, I, I, God, I hope that there was some value to being here. Like I, I gotta have you back on. I feel like the guy who's like already begging for like,

I can't even play cool. I can't be like, hey, we went on a date. I'm not going to call her for a day. I already want so much more of you. I'm watching the questions just pour in and we just can't get to all of them because my bladder is going to explode. And I've had you for two hours and 34 minutes. Listen, this is my takeaway from this podcast. I know most of you believe in believe in uh really hardcore accountability personal

responsibility taking control of your life uh go check out this guy's stuff uh watch a couple of his videos um while you're on the assault bike with your headphones on break that sweat and you i think you would be uh making a huge mistake if at some point in your life you didn't at least use the diet that he that he prescribes to himself to do a reset on your on your whole entire being so they have these diets that are called elimination diets i recommend doing that do an elimination diet and make this and use uh dr anthony uh chafee's diet as your foundation. It's just one item you're going to eat. It's just meat and water.

It's a good place to start. See how you react. Set a goal for yourself 30 to 60 days and begin from there and treat yourself like a lab rat and see how it feels. And I also know this, that most of the listeners are big proponents that the way to make life better is to get rid of shit. You don't buy another Harley. You get rid of the one you have.

We all know that the more shit you get rid of, the freer you are and the better you are. So I think this is just an awesome place to start. And I will definitely try my best in the next couple months to get Dr. Anthony back on. I know people have tons of questions. Everyone wants to know about eggs and eating semen and all the weird fucking questions you guys ask and how does he really live without caffeine and i i know i know i know all the shit you guys want to say don't uh okay you guys want to know if a diabetic can start all that um i appreciate you oh you broke up see look at i talked about getting you off and you're gone

he froze is he frozen for you he's frozen he froze it's a good shot of him though yeah it's a it's the australian government just shutting him down i don't know if you can hear us dr anthony but you froze oh what were you gonna say i can hear you yeah yeah am i back to you guys i can hear you anyway yeah yeah you're back to us yeah i was just saying when you said the diabetes things yeah the people with diabetes can absolutely do it diabetes just goes away uh when you go on a carnivore diet even just ketogenic diet you know that that's like we've actually been able to push that and and people like gary fecky and others have actually gotten that into the guidelines for the australian diabetes um approach to treatment yeah so now that now that's mainstream so now now

everyone can absolutely prescribe this to their patients because it's in the it's in the um uh the mainstream diabetes guidelines so uh and carnivore is the ultimate ketogenic diet um you know if you're not obviously eating uh fruit and honey and carbs and things like that, you know, if you're doing meat-based ketogenic diet, keto-vore, I guess you could call it. That is really, really, really strong. I was just in Costa Rica. We actually just filmed a docu-series called Reversed. It's like the third season. And it's all about reversing

diseases with a carnivore diet and a major one is diabetes you know we had a lady who that's a cool show what's the name of that show it's called reversed reversed yeah and um when does that publish that's published already that's um no we just finished filming it and um so it'll be sort of out in the next sort of five six months and um but there's two other seasons so they did you have a mailing list i want to be on your mailing list like are you going to send out a mail being like hey reversed is coming out or do you have a mailing list i don't i should probably set one up i've uh i've only really sort of gotten into the whole social media um podcast sort of thing just in the past year.

And so I'm still sort of figuring it out. All right. Yeah. But yeah, so it's a third season. So there are two other seasons that they use a ketogenic diet approach. Now they're going full-on carnivore. And one lady, people know about diabetes. And, you know, one lady, you know, people know about, you know, diabetes, her HbA1c, which is a marker of basically how high your blood sugar is for the last three months, was 13, which is massive.

You know, it's supposed to be around like 5.5. It's really, you know, under six anyway, is optimal. Hers was 13. So it's massive. Okay. So high blood sugar is what kills diabetics these these blood these sugar molecules physically fuse to other molecules called glycation so it's a non-enzymatic fusion between these sugar molecules and your other molecules and they damage them and disrupt them um so it basically kills you

from the inside and so this is why your insulin goes up as a protective measure that's not a normal thing your body's just trying to protect you from this high blood sugar try to get this down and then high insulin disruption metabolism in a lot of different ways you can cause a lot of different problems and disease pathways from there um so she was able to get her hba1c down from 13 down to 5.1 with a carnivore diet in like you know a couple months you know which is just unheard of you know type 2 diabetes is is taught to be a progressive illness is a chronic disease it's a progressive disease it only gets worse you mitigate it with diet lifestyle and medication but it only gets worse that is what is taught and yet you reverse it in two months there are people that are on insulin

that can come off insulin you know in a matter of months not everyone but there are people that can do it and so but everyone will improve dramatically uh aaron c uh i will give you the final state i respect the benefits of only meat and i understand it but fruit is nature's gift and uh aaron c uh i will give you the final state i respect the benefits of only me and i understand it but fruit is nature's gift and uh aaron i understand uh also uh monogamy but uh your sister and your best friend are the um nature's fruits so uh thank you for that guys thanks for tuning in uh dr anthony you demand um and uh i hope we run into each other again yeah absolutely