The Sevan Podcast - #793 - Paul Coll | #1 Squash Player in the World

Episode Date: February 10, 2023

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bam we're live oh that makes me nervous i'm rarely rarely the only person uh in here when i get here no caleb no suza no guest i wonder what happened i better uh I better resend the links. Hey, those of you who remember the guest we had on, we've had him on twice now, Tyson Bajent. Division II quarterback, went to the Senior Bowl. I'm sending the link to everyone again. Maybe it was CY trying to figure out where everyone is. Went to the senior bowl. What the senior bowl is,

is it's where all the best college football players go to perform their last game. It's like the pro bowl for college football. And there's three of those pro bowls. And the top one, the very top one where the best college players go is the senior bowl. And Tyson was invited there. Very rare that a division two player would be invited there. Not only was he invited there, but he was voted by all of the other players as kind of their favorite favorite player he was like the cool guy there so imagine that of the 106 guys 111 guys uh who went

there um and the vast majority of them will end up going to the nfl like last year was 106 of the 111 were drafted to go to the nfl uh-oh i sent him the uh i sent them the wrong link. I sent them the wrong link. My goodness. Well, that hasn't happened before. I sent the guest the wrong link. My goodness. Anyway, so Tyson goes there.

Not only is he voted by all the other players as the cool kid the kid that everyone likes but he throws every quarterback there played only one quarter he throws 17 completions well stevan is that a lot well just so you know second place only through 11 completions. Pretty crazy. Hey, Paul, what's up? Hey, mate. How's it going?

I sent you to the Dave Castro window. Yeah, I was trying my hardest not to be late, and you stitched me up there. I set you up for failure, Paul. It's all good, mate. We bounced back. That's what we did. I'm wondering. I'm looking over here at the schedule. I wonder if there's other people, mate. We bounced back. That's what we did. I'm wondering,

I'm looking over here at the schedule. I wonder if there's other people over there live call. Oh God, I'm a ding dong. Well, it says here we're live. We're good. We're up and running.

Yeah. You demand dude. Thanks for doing this. Hey, you know, it's a trip. I didn't, until I started researching you,

I didn't even know you were a CrossFitter. I was actually, I was speaking to my, my girlfriend, my fiance a trip. I didn't, until I started researching you, I didn't even know you were a CrossFitter. I was actually, I was speaking to my girlfriend, my fiance now, and I was thinking, I was curious as how you come across me, whether it was through my old CrossFit days or what it was. But yeah, I was curious how you come across me in squash. We had this dude on, Kane, I'm going to screw up his last name.

He's the best racquetball player in the world okay kane kane who's gonna get tell me kane's uh let me see uh waz and chuck do you know that name i'm not too familiar with record ball if i'm being honest with you so yeah that's my american sport that yeah so oh that's mainly an American sport, yeah. Oh, that is mainly an American sport? Yeah, it's probably like if I go to America and I say, oh, I play squash, genuinely no one knows what I'm talking about. And then I go, oh, it's like racquetball. And then they'll be like, oh, racquetball.

So it's a bit more of the dominating sort of sport there. Same court though, right? Uh, slightly different dimensions, but very, very similar in terms of, um, like shape and stuff,

but record was a bit bigger. Okay. And, and then your, and your ball, uh, has way less bounce, right? It's more like a handball.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. So the racquetball was a way quicker way bounce. Yeah. Ours is a little bit less,

but quite a lot less sort of bouncy and um takes a bit more to to warm it up and stuff like that and it's a bit bit slower but that's the court smaller so it sort of like works out the same same sort of pace yeah it's not a handball though right no no no a lot smaller yeah a lot smaller it's probably the size of a golf ball have you ever been to prison paul in the prison now just just seeing if you have any handball pedigree that's like the sport in prison right handball i think it was yeah it was like made there or something or am i talking i mean you can't have a racket right in prison in prison so like, here's your ball. Figure out a game. So we had this guy, a cane, a was,

Waslan Chuck on cool dude, a racquetball player. Wow. I didn't realize Kane was 41. And we have a lot of, you know, interesting people parade through here. It's it's I'll interview anyone. And then someone's like, Hey dude, you got to see this guy, uh, Paul Cole. Am I, did I pronounce your last name right? Cole? Yeah. And so then I started looking at you and I was like, Oh yeah, this is going to be great if I could get this dude. And then, um, and then I started watching all these videos on you on YouTube and I'm like,

Oh my goodness, this guy's a CrossFitter. I didn't dive too deep, mate. Some of those videos online make me cringe when I watch them back. Oh, they're great. I dove deep. They're great. Hey, man. Are you still CrossFitting?

Not as much, no, because my CrossFitting days is when I was sort of breaking through on the squash scene. So I was probably – I wasn't – I was playing a lot of tournaments but I was playing like one or two matches per tournament so it wasn't too too draining on the mind of body but now I'm making sort of semi-finals finals quite regularly it's my schedule's just too full and so I like you know what CrossFit's like if you get if you don't do it for three four weeks and then you come back your body just gets sore and I was just finding it was the load was too much for for doing you know my squash schedule and crossfit so I had to taper it back so I haven't probably done it I mean I still do it if I'm in a good training block because I still

love it but yeah I dropped all my Olympic lifting all my gymnastics and um it's more just sort of like yeah my training between tournaments has calmed down quite a lot because my body just just can't handle both of them yeah how old are you i'm 30 now oh man you're still young um uh i'm gonna be completely frank uh you know i love crossfit but i saw you doing um a snatch a snatch with great form it like I think you were snatching one 55 and then you lowered it to a hang snatch and then did another snatch. And then in that same workout, I saw you doing muscle ups and I'm like, man, I don't know. I don't know if I risk that risk. My put my shoulders in those positions. I know someone's going to yell at me. No, no, it's per it's great

for you, but I'm, it would freak me out to have one of the best racket players in the world uh be tossing around those kind of weights and that kind of explosive dynamic range yeah exactly and that was sort of the younger self of me just enjoying it too much and probably i don't know i felt like it was um i mean you were strong you're not even a big guy you're you were strong or you are yeah i. Yeah, not as much anymore. I used to be quite strong when I was doing CrossFit, but I've dropped all that back. But I used to jack up my shoulders too much, especially my right shoulder,

so I'd get a lot of stiffness when I'm trying to swing through here, and that's why I sort of stopped also doing all of those overhead lifts and all my sort of muscle-ups and stuff like that because I used to just jack up my right shoulder like crazy especially all through here and it would just tighten up my swing which obviously when it swings your whole whole sport it's no good but uh yeah i mean olympic lifting it's very explosive isn't it so i was doing it for that but you're probably right like putting your shoulders in those positions is uh not not the most ideal

thing to do but it was fun it was fun and and you were looking you were looking jack too like those those crazy you you guys wear those crazy like tour de france shirts like that those like pinner guys wear and you'd have all you'd have titties in there like i would see you in interviews i'm like oh yeah crossfitter like your back's also well but you got you did lose a lot of that muscle because now when i see the more recent uh um footage of you you're looking more svelte again you're just you're just you're like an ass and glutes and quads now and in calves you know i'm all lower half now i'm completely from my chest up i've just dropped a lot of weight yeah a lot of muscle um which which i don't always like but uh it's part of the job i think when i finish squash i'll get back into some pretty

pretty good crossfit i mean i loved it i loved it i love the whole training side of it community side of it it was um it was cool man like for me to do training like that and it was so fun like um you know to have a have aspect, and I loved it. So I'll be surprised if I didn't go back to it after squash, to be honest. Are you in – you're in Amsterdam right now? Yeah, so I'm based out of Amsterdam. So I just got back in from America a couple of days ago, actually. We were playing in New York there, so that was pretty cool.

So, yeah, just flew in two days ago. So back here for a couple of weeks training. And what were you doing over here in the United States? We actually have a pretty cool tournament over there, man. You should Google it. It's called Tournament of Champions. It's in Grand Central Station. Wow.

Yeah. So they build a course. Do they build a mock course there? Yeah, so we're quite lucky. We got these courts made out of glass and we just put them up anywhere we want basically so they put one up in the middle of grand central station so um he got like i don't know how many people go through there a day 500,000 people going through there a day and just the courts just bang up sitting in vanderbilt hall

there so um dude these images are crazy how did i not see this this is nuts it's okay yeah yeah so we've got these big chandeliers above us and um you got people like walking through the front wall um like crazy you know so it's great for spot the exposure of squash it's real cool atmosphere in that tournament yeah this is the train station in new york yeah yeah bro there's um there's vanderbilt hall so as. This is the train station in New York. Yeah, yeah, bro. That's Vanderbilt Hall. So as you go into the main thing, that's literally just off to the right of Grand Central Station. Wow, that's crazy.

Yeah. Hey, so it says it's sponsored by JP Morgan. So you got some rich dude who loves squash who's like, all right, I'm bringing these guys. This is nothing. I'm bringing this sport to new york yeah i think this is probably like it's probably like the best tournament to sponsor for squash because um like they like i said they have what i don't know how many people go through grand central today but i mean the foot traffic nuts nuts yeah so they've got jp morgan just plastered across the front of that and you got all those people. I mean, that's like one of the most iconic sort of squash venues that we play in.

So that's pretty cool, man. It's a real buzzy experience when you're just walking through a train station and you've got train announcements going on and you're just trying to play squash. Oh, it's like that. Yeah. Oh, so it's almost like a video game. You know like those video games where you drive Formula 1 through a town?

This is you playing squash in a train station. basically we also we also put them up in the have you seen the one in front of the pyramids no oh this is crazy i haven't seen any of this and that's where it's a huge sport right squash is like crazy big in egypt yeah they have probably like six seven out of the top ten and we, so we play there probably five times a year. And they put this one up in the middle of the desert, just in the pyramids or just in the background. So we just play in the middle of the desert, which is pretty wild because you get sand and dust

and wind just hooning around on a court, which is not what we normally sort of play on. And do people complain about this, like the train station noises or the dust or no like everyone knows hey man this is part of the scene this is what we do um it's tough because i was in the final of this one this year and this is nuts right here by the way this is crazy yeah so so basically one of the sort of a part of the court was basically unplayable, so I couldn't really. Into one corner, I was just slipping every rally. Because of sand?

Sand, man. It was crazy. The wind was just blowing up. You mentioned the sand's just blowing around. So I was slipping like crazy. My opponent was slipping too, so I couldn't really just say it was just me. But that for the sport is so good, you you've almost got to just you know suck it up and as long as you yeah i mean that that comes to a point because you don't want to

get injured but i mean look how cool that is that's insane right so hey i saw in one of your games there's a guy that comes running out there with a um like a uh like a i guess it's not a broom it looks like he's drying the court yeah so we sweat like crazy it's um pretty intense on there so you have like you normally have a court clean who just comes around and just gets like the droplets of sweat um from the court because yeah like it's you'll slip if you're going hard and you lunge and you slip on that you're just asking for a hamstring injury so um yeah in egypt they could have a dude with the vacuum like you could get they should have dyson as a sponsor and like he just comes out there and

like sweeps out the sucks up the dust in the corners 100 man they have it they have like a in egypt they do like a wet mop so they wet them off so they'll in between games they'll go out and just wet the whole court and take up all the dust. And then obviously it's like 30 degrees here. So it dries in like 30 seconds. So that's how they solve that. But I like your thinking, get Dyson in. Yeah.

Another sponsor, right? Even if it doesn't work. Hey, is that, what's the, the integrity of those portable squash courts? Are they good?

Are they just as good as the, like the permanent ones like the for some i mean i'm gonna say something so stupid here but they're rigid they're not all flimsy they do them good they're tight they got the same bounce off the walls you can run into them full speed all that stuff yeah so these courts here the glass courts is what we call them that's what like all of our major events we played on these these. So we're actually, as pros, we prefer to play on these because we're used to them. So these are like the best courts out there, yeah. So they're pretty thick glass.

But that's what we play on every major. So we actually prefer to play on these courts rather than traditional courts. Yeah. Someone just said, let me see this. Brandon Waddellell seven look up the tourney from 2009 in chicago why some good stuff there like a good um let's see oh no and that's before my time to be honest squash 2009 uh tournament what did he say in chicago oh yeah chicago t where they oh just outside wow wow okay let me see this i'll pull this up too

it's just outside in front of like the sears tower is that where it is oh yeah i think i remember that one that was before my time but yeah we've had a few outdoors like we have outdoors in san francisco as well yeah it's pretty nuts yeah that's so cool yeah hey is it is it the same court they just that thing just packs up it's just really thick pieces of glass and it just packs up and they ship that thing around yeah we'll have like we have one there'll be one in america that will be sort of shipped around america canada we have one in europe well it's probably like four or five in europe couple in new zealand australia so they

have them in like the different continents just so it's easier for shipping um yeah hey you think you um when you're done um playing you'll somehow be involved in like the uh i was going to call it the politics it probably is politics but the admin of squash like you'll somehow get involved in the admin of it like the guy who's like in charge of that glass case or the people who make sure the tournaments run correctly or what what i don't know what that is you know what i mean like someone who wears a suit and kind of got like a belly and hands trophies to people no i'm definitely not an admin guy to be honest i'll be i'll be doing something like maybe if i'm in squash it'd be like coaching like high performance coaching or to be honest like i've i've always been into i've always said that i'll open up a gym when i when i

finish um i don't know what what type of gym crossfoot or something like that i've always been into that side of sort of coaching and personal training and um so i that's what i was going down but i'm definitely not an admin guy i'd'd be, yeah, I'm an outdoors guy, physical guy. I like to be active. Is, is home is New Zealand for you? Yeah.

So home's New Zealand. So, um, that's where I'm from. That's where I'll always be from. I live in Amsterdam though, because obviously logistics wise going back to New Zealand, it takes two days to go back there.

So virtually impossible to, to be sort of based out of new zealand we have one we have new zealand open which is one a year but other than that it's it's all this side of the world so yeah logistics wise for um sort of jet lag and whatnot it's impossible to to be based in new zealand so but yeah i'll always call that home and paul your girl is uh she's a squash player too yeah so she's um she's world number nine you look pretty buff there you look pretty buff like you don't look like a like a tour de france guy there you're looking good

i've actually i've been working on it a bit more okay you knew you were coming on this podcast you did some curls yeah my favorite celebration is like you know flexing the guns and i had to stop that because i was i was too skinny and you can't really flex the guns when you're when you got you know lance armstrong arm so i had right i had to get back in the gym just so i can sort of get that celebration going again so this is your so your girl plays yeah she's belgium so we live um that's why we sort of live in amsterdam as well because we're like two hours from from her place so um yeah we just got engaged in uh december back in new zealand so that was pretty cool but yeah she's world world record

number nine she's in detroit playing at the moment but yeah we travel quite a lot playing together which is cool um the boys and girls don't don't don't go together um for the majors we do yeah so she was in new york as well playing in the the uh the train station there but like for the there's a smaller event what we call sort of like silver level tournaments and gold level tournaments quite often you would just have a woman's or just have a men's sort of event so but all the majors are equal prize money which is quite cool for new zealand it's equal prize money in the majors and yeah they normally run them together at the same time i think there's only one major that's that's different yeah are they just as popular the men

and women the competition like the crowd with the crowd yeah i think so i mean the woman's squash at the moment is pretty cool i mean they've got i think sometimes people prefer it than the men's squash at the moment because the men's squash is getting a bit sort of physical between players. There's a lot of stoppages and stuff, whereas the women tend to sort of just run around each other and it's more free-flowing. So it's getting quite good. And, man, they play at a high pace these days.

The women are impressive what they're getting up to. So, yeah, it's cool that, you know, the whole tour is sort of equal prize money. It's something that squash sort of, you know, tries to promote quite, quite highly. Um, uh, a couple of questions here. Where, what are you ranked number one? Or what are you ranked currently right now? I'm three currently. Yeah. And, and you've been as high as number one.

Yeah. So I was number one um sort of last last year for about four uh three and a half four months and congratulations you started at 13 years old right yeah around there competition wise probably 13 i was probably playing a bit younger because yeah my parents and stuff were always at the court so competition wise i would have started when i was about 13 but yeah i probably had a racket in my hand a bit younger than that so so basically 16 years of play and eventually became the number one player in the world and i want to i'm gonna say something and then and then we'll come back to this because i want to go back i want to hint on something you said but also you you you in some of the videos i saw you didn't believe you'd ever be the uh the number one

player in the world you couldn't you weren't the kind of guy who envisioned it and then and then got there um you got there with a lot of self-doubt yeah yeah that's awesome i want to come back to that but let me ask you this real quick um uh when you just said that the men's events are becoming more physical. Oh, I really, I like this. I think a little bit of pushing would be good for any sport. What's happening? What do you mean? Like dudes like purposely hitting each other with the ball or not moving out of the way?

What's going on? It's not so much hitting with the ball, but we, it's a big thing in squash at the moment. We don't have professional refs. So all the rest are volunteers. So they're not. Oh, sounds like CrossFit. Yeah. Right.

So they're not, they're not highly paid. So they don't train or whatever. So they do the best job they can. Like I'm, I never try and give the rest too much shit because, you know, I mean, they do what they get paid to do, you know, and they don't get paid to do anything. So like I'm, I mean, they do what they get paid to do, you know, and they don't get paid to do anything. So, like, I never get trying – I never try to give them too much grief. But, like, it's not so much hitting with a ball, but, you know, you can –

in squash, you can 100% use your body to get in the way of your opponent. And it's a real hot topic in squash at the moment, and people trying to get – we have these things called lets and strokes. So if you're in the way of your opponent and they can't play a ball, they get a stroke, so they get awarded the point basically. So obviously if you can get awarded the point, then you're going to do quite a lot to do that. So, yeah, I mean it's a big topic in the men's squash particularly

at the moment in terms of players using their bodies and trying to get points and not letting you go to the ball and stuff like that so it's something squash is trying to clean up and i think it needs to because it's quite confusing to a non-squash person about what what's happening and what's going on but there's been some uh pretty fiery matches over the last 12 months i i saw um a match i don't remember where it was but you guys were hitting backhands um against i don't even know if they're called backhands and squash but it looked like you guys were hitting backhands and it was just down the line of the wall yeah and so each person had to hit it and then move out of the way and it was tight you guys were basically just going in circles around each other like this yeah trying to make room for the other guy to get the backhand and it's moving very

quickly and i was like oh man that that looks uh and that that looks uh like it's a fight waiting to happen like just you're basically you guys are trying to share the space of a phone booth back and forth hitting against the wall 100 and that's where it gets like we have it like you say down that backhand wall we have a lot of traffic because that's where probably 70 of squash is played down there and yeah if someone doesn't want to move around someone then it just becomes it can become a bit of a nightmare on there um which i don't particularly enjoy it's not not how i want to play squash so i think it's you know we're trying to get professional rest i think that will help

for sure but uh yeah i mean it's down to the players isn't it too it's how we want to play the game and i think it's you know because because using your body's it's it's sort of like an underarm serve in tennis you know it's it's a bit, but you know, you're not really supposed to do it. It's not. Say that again. It's like what in tennis? Like an under, under, underarm serve, you know, like it's, yeah. So it's not like you, you'll get penalized for it. If you do it too aggressively, you'll get penalized for, for using your body too much. Yeah.

If you don't let your opponent go to the ball, you, you, you'll sort of should be awarded the point against you basically. The rally report podcast, a top of the men's game is getting dirty. I'm going to have to tell you I like this. I know it's probably not probably. I like dirty, which Paul's being polite about. He doesn't play – Paul doesn't play dirty, but dealing with it seems like nonsense. Oh, I like it.

I want to see – it sounds some something that could go viral on youtube so so is it is it let me ask you this is it um a couple questions is it new players bringing it into the game like maybe trying to be a little more innovative or pushing the boundaries of the rules um is it uh lazy players like maybe players who are out of shape who aren't as good who are invoking this tactic. And is it, the third question is, is it that they're not moving or that they're purposely moving into the wrong spots to, to, to make it more difficult? I mean, it's tough. It is, you know,

like does everyone know who the guy is? Who's the guy who's like, yep, that's the guy who gets in your way. I won't ask his name, but is is that is there a guy everyone knows yeah yeah okay yeah there's there's a few guys that are sort of god i hope he's an american he's an american there's not too many american top male squash players unfortunately what's the highest ranked american i think around 40 40 50 okay there is yeah there's four four uh women in the top 24 i think four four in the top 24 um on the women's side so so so what is it so what is it a new is it a new is it a new guy is it is it new players or is it old players like i could i'm picturing in new players or is it old players?

I'm picturing in my head it's either old players who are losing a step, who are invoking that technique, or it's a new player. You know what I mean by losing a step? They're getting a little slow, so they're like, all right, let's start pushing the boundaries of what's legal. Or it's new guys who are like, man, I'm going to add some fucking testosterone to this sport. There's definitely – yeah, it's probably younger guys coming through because there's a bit of a transition from junior squash

to sort of professional squash. But to be honest, everyone does it, man. It's just how subtle you are with doing it and when you do it, how much you do it, how aggressively you do it. So, I mean, everyone's guilty of it. But there's definitely – there's a line that pros know that, you know, if you go over that, you're sort of – you're being a bit of a dick about it. But, I mean, everyone in squash does it, especially when people get tired.

People don't do it on purpose as well because obviously when you get tired, you're not moving as quick. So then there's just going to be interference no matter what because i mean it's a it's an intense sport we go over 100 minutes sometimes heart rate's like 170 180 so you're going to get tired and you're going to get slower and if you just i mean there's certain styles of players i mean there's some big boys on tour you got people like six two you know going around a small box like that so you know they've got legs and arms going around. You're trying to run around them at full pace. So, I mean, there's like – there's accidental contact as well

and there's people who look for it. I mean, to be honest, it comes down to the players, you know, every player. Every player can do it. Every player can play how they want to play. But to me, yeah, it's a fine line in squash. It can turn the match pretty ugly pretty quick. Really? Like the two guys just don't like each other in there.

It just gets nasty. Yeah. And if it's a real clash of players, then it can become an absolute dogfight. And the ref needs to take control of it. And that's where our game falls down is when the refs can't control it because it just spirals out of control and every rally is a stoppage and every rally that's you know something like that so it it comes down to the players and then the referees need to

sort it out but that's where it's sort of falling away at the moment um in in um in college i played uh racquetball you're in, you're in a court, right? Not, not like, uh, competitively, like just, we had racquetball courts at the gym and it was something like I did at least once a week with friends. And I, and over those four years that I was in college, um, all, all three of my buddies stopped playing with me. Uh, two of them said I was too intense and, and they didn't like me in there. And one of them, we just, um, uh, in, in racquetball, you, if the guy standing in front of you and he would be in front of me and I hit him once and then he hit me and then I hit him and

it really hurts to get hit. Right. Dude, you see the bruises from those balls, man is savage. Is it like that in squash too if you get hit it hurts really bad oh yeah and you get these bruises like it starts white then it goes red and then you get this big black light oh i never had one of those mine just stings so bad does someone get hit in every game in squash no no no the pros don't hit each other holy smokes yeah holy smokes yeah yeah i mean that bull's traveling like 150 kilometers yeah so it's funny because it gets

these like rings on it yeah yeah and it was just it got too intense with guys i personally didn't mind it but these other guys like one guy said hey dude you never compliment me in the court i'm not playing with you anymore i'm like i never compliment you i fucking hate you in here isn't isn't racquetball quite a gentleman's sport in america i don't know you know what's weird about racquet sports paul there there's a lot of like fat old guys who play racket sports, and you see them hobble up to the court, and then they play tennis or racquetball. I haven't seen too much squash. And they move amazing in there.

Yeah. And then the second they walk out, they're broken again. Do you see that in squash too sometimes? You go to squash courts, and you're like, how is this old guy going to play? And then he gets in there, and he can play. And then he comes out, and he's got and then and then he comes out and he's got his walker again you're like what it's racket sports are so weird and old people can really

play them for a long time if you know what you're doing on there you can make it look like super smooth and then if you if you don't know what you're doing you look like an absolute clown but you get some of these old guys that have played for years and they just know they know how to move they know where to move and then yeah they look like super smooth on there so it's quite i quite like what like watching those guys because they clearly know what they're doing and they just look to make the game look super easy paul taking the diplomatic way out ha ha ha there's one guy who's kick-started all this beef and making matches ugly i like him he's good for the sport don't have him smell snicker bars and cans of coke and he'll be the perfect villain i like him already oh don't forget pickleball i would love to forget pickleball

the fuck out of here take a whole tractor and scoop up all the pickleball courts in america and throw them in the trash they keep converting all our tennis courts here in the states to pickleball courts it's ridiculous yeah i've never played. They keep converting all our tennis courts here in the States to pickleball courts. It's ridiculous. Yeah. I've never played it, but I don't quite understand it to me. It doesn't look, I don't know. It's ping, it's ping pong. It's tennis for old people. It's ping pong. Right. But it's like, it's like dumbed down ping pong. It's like, um,

it's a sport for, uh, lazy fat people. I fine. I said it there. I'm sure I would like it in college if i was drunk you know what i mean it's like it's something you play with a beer in your hand yeah that's that's the vibe i get from it yeah i've never i never played it so i i couldn't really judge but dude if you played it you'd be world class in in in fucking a month you has anyone suggested you pivot to pickleball? It's getting huge. No, it's only America, right? Like over here, paddle's more exploding.

That is going mental over here. So paddle's like the one. What's it called? Paddle, paddle. No, what's the second word you said? Paddle, paddle. Paddle, P-A-D-E-L. Paddle.

Paddle ball. Yeah. For us, that's the thing you play on the beach where you hit a ball back and forth. Yeah. This is exploding. This is exploding in Europe. Why do all the European people have all the coolest courts? Look at that court.

It's cool, too. Yeah. I don't want to be promoting this, though, because this is like? Look at that court. It's cool too. Yeah. I don't want to be promoting this though, because this is like the rival to squash, but it's pretty fun. And you've played that? No one's listening to it. I play it quite often, yeah.

Uh-oh. Hey, does that throw your timing off, playing a game with a different ball? No, I don't play it that much, but it is weird because the racket's a lot smaller, so I'll quite often often swing and i'll just completely miss the ball because the racket's a good like half a meter or not 30 centimeters shorter so it is quite funny but i never i never play enough to throw off my squash timing no uh there's a top racquetball guy who's also a top pickleball guy so i think squash would uh translate well um good so so going back um to being born you're born in new zealand small island uh where incest is accepted no i'm joking i made that uh no that's iceland sorry i get iceland and New Zealand mixed up. Caleb, you didn't even laugh, Caleb. You didn't even laugh. That was a great, that was a great. Thank you.

So, so New Zealand and you're, you're born there and raised there. And what were your, what did your parents do? What was life like there when you're born? I just picture you like being born in like a grassy knoll and your dad took care of like sheep and your mom milked cows like when i think of new zealand like spot on um no i was born in quite a small town called grey mouth so there's about 10 000 people there so pretty pretty chilled upbringing to be honest lots of outdoor activity um water skiing played every sport under the sun um yeah and then i sort of moved away from there when i was i went to boarding school um mom mom shipped me away so went to boarding school in christchurch but yeah it's uh grey mouse so why um why would your mom send you away to boarding school um just because she thought that i had some talent and in grey mouthymouth, like I said, there's 10,000 people there. So the opportunities in a bigger city were more.

So I guess I have to thank her. But yeah, she went to boarding school for basically for my sporting sort of opportunities. How old were you when you went to boarding school? 13. Did you cry? Yeah, I cried every night for about a year, to be honest. Yeah, that would be so hard about a year, to be honest.

Yeah, that would be so hard on me. I wouldn't have liked that at all. I wouldn't have wanted to leave my mom. Yeah, no, that was pretty brutal. That was probably the hardest year of my life, to be honest, adjusting to that. But looking back, it was wicked. Like, I'm pleased she shipped me away. So, yeah, that was good.

I had lots of opportunities in the bigger city. And sort of grow up quite early don't you know so for like if i'm traveling around the world and i'll be living out of home since i was 13 you sort of grow up quite quickly you learn a lot so when i started traveling at like 18 19 i was pretty sort of adept to looking after myself so yeah you get a lot of life skills from it i think um and what when you're really so your mom saw some athletic talent in you at at you know at 12 that made it so she thought hey i should send this kid away so he's opportunity what was the athletic talent she saw in you what sport um so when i was i think when i was 13 i got selected for um new zealand hockey squash for squash oh i thought not hockey i was very good at hockey as well so i played hockey in high school i played field hockey not ice hockey field

hockey okay i was trying to show off and i and i screwed up no it's good as did you research it i was just so sorry so at 13 you got chosen for squash yeah for new zealand and so i was very good at hockey and squash and when i got selected for new zealand for squash that sort of put most of my interest towards that because obviously playing sport for a country is you know you're not going to turn that down are you so that's where i sort of started shifting most of my sort of interest to squash but I was still playing hockey and rugby at the same time until I was about 15 16. Paul tell me the exact story if you don't mind like with detail you're you're playing squash in a court as a 13 year old boy and someone walks up and says, you look pretty good at this. Do you want to play for the New Zealand team?

No. So I used to play rip squash for West Coast, which is like the district of Greymouth. So then you get selected to go away to like a weekend selection camp. So I went away to the camp, which is my first sort of trip away. Forgot all my rackets going to a squash camp, which wasn't a good start. And then the coach, I was pretty, I wasn't great. Like I was fast, I was fit. I tried 100%. And that's why they selected me,

but I was probably the worst one in the whole camp. So yeah, that's sort of like, I went away for the weekend. Then they selected me for like it's called development squad which is um we're sort of pathway to playing for new zealand so i wasn't actually sleeping for new zealand it was like a development squad that would put you on the track to playing for new zealand um but yeah that sort of was my first sort of real sort of induction into that i could be good at squash yeah that's like a a night that's like one a real nightmare you know what i mean like the the night before a tournament you have a dream that you go there and like you're on the court with you with no pants on right i mean like

you forgot your rackets to go to selection camp i've been on and i forgot my pants as well but that was playing soccer but But, um, yeah. Like you really forgot really at a, you showed up without your pants to a soccer event also. Yeah. I played half a game in my undies and then my mom wouldn't got me my shorts. Oh, that's awesome. I'm selling myself pretty well here.

Hey, does that haunt you forever? Like that, forgetting your rackets going to that camp, like did that give you like some crazy OCD that you still have today? Like you put your racket in your bag and then as you go to the car, you zip your bag open again to look to make sure your racket's in there. Exactly. Honestly, the amount of times if I'm going to a match, the amount of times I check my rackets in my shoes now, which I guess is a good thing because it'd be a lot worse now if I forgot my rackets to a match. But yeah, I check them probably four or five times before I actually leave to the court yeah one time I was riding a motorcycle and I was wearing a backpack and I forgot to zip it shut and it it kind of ruined motorcycle riding for me because every time I would get on my motorcycle I'd have to like I would literally

like stop pull over at a gas station something and check my backpack to make sure it was zipped shut and it was always was but just that one time just screws you up it does doesn't it like if it's bad enough you'll never forget it it'll give you bloody nightmares so so you so at 13 boy man in this current climate man i i could never send my 13 year old boy away there's too much weird shit going on in the world. We'll say at least in the, I don't know how it is in New Zealand, but we got some weirdos here in the United States.

You can't leave your kids alone. To be honest, I spent a lot of time in America and it is, yeah, it's completely different to growing up in New Zealand. Yeah. In terms of you guys, you guys,

do you guys keep your bathroom separate or is it like here where the dudes are now allowed to go into the girl bathroom um we have we have different bathrooms yeah yeah that's cool keep that try to keep that try to keep that we don't got that here anymore we don't have that and and our prisons they're letting the dudes go into the girls prisons i was geez that's really and guess what's happening right i don't even have to say it out loud that's exactly what's happening i don't yeah that interesting logic that one because they just wanted they wanted they don't want to be rude to anyone geez i mean it's getting crazy here buddy i of that just seems a bit odd to me.

But you know what is cool is yesterday they just voted, I guess, in the House. Our politicians voted, and we are now going to allow people who aren't vaccinated into the country. So I think we're like one of the last countries to do that. Yeah, I was going to say, I thought that was already happened, but is that – No, all the last countries to do that. So now. Yeah. I thought that was already happened, but is that. No, all the other countries have already allowed it to happen. Like I think your country, Australia,

UK, Canada, all the other countries, but we were the last one. So now, uh, um, Djokovic,

the tennis player can now come here and play in the U S open. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. I sort of forgotten about all that, to be honest, obviously got my vaccinations, but it was just so I can travel, basically, make it easier.

By the way, every Republican voted to open the country, and every Democrat except seven wanted to keep it closed, even though we know the vaccine doesn't work and it hurts people. So just make a note of that next time you go to your voting station you jackasses um you spent three you spent three years away from your during covid you weren't you weren't in new zealand you got you where were you you got isolated somewhere else three years away from your family three and a half years yeah i couldn't go back so um i was i was living in amsterdam um normally i go back once or twice a year to new zealand um just to obviously see family and you know and so i couldn't go back for three and a half years and then a lot a lot went on in that

time for me as well in that three and a half years obviously getting to number one winning a few majors and stuff like that so it was kind of it was pretty tough for me because obviously you want to go back and celebrate those sort of things with family and friends and that so yeah obviously I couldn't couldn't go back for three and a half years so it was tough um but yeah it was I mean it's hard to be hard to be bitter about it because so much good stuff happened to me in that three and a half years but it definitely wasn't easy i'm very much a homeboy and a family boy so to not be able to do that for for that long was was very tough but yeah i'm you know lucky got my fiancee and her family over here so that made it a little bit easier but at the same time it was tough man it was it was real tough i hate the thought of you being told you can't go

home yeah and or if you want to go home you got to spend two weeks in a hotel yeah all that i hate all that stuff yeah that was that was a hard thing i think that's you know a lot of people in new zealand also were told they can't leave you know so it was like people wanting to leave people wanting to go back so i mean the government was under under complete fire because that lasts for for way too long in my opinion. Good. I hope all those people fucking get shipped to Indonesia. Go run,

go rule that country. What do you think about the fact that you, you weren't that good at 13? Do you think that that's what made you that good? Someone was just proposing that idea to me the other day that the kids who are really good early on don't end up becoming the best in the world, that it's really the people who have to work for it. Do you have thoughts on that? Yeah. I mean, you obviously get both, you know, like I was,

I was very much not, not, Oh, I was a talented kid. Like I wasn't, I'm not saying I was crap, but I didn't specify early into one sport so like I said when I was 16 I was playing squash rugby hockey so I I sort of learned how to you know I was very aware of how to use my body in terms of adapting to all different sports and you obviously get those ones though that specify early and then they just become like legends of the sport you know sort of like a like a Djokovic or a tiger woods or something like that so you do get those guys that just dominate from when they were freaking eight years old ten years old um but yeah i mean i think it's like

i had to work a lot out and i had to make a lot of sacrifices in terms of moving away from my family and trying to work out how to how to bed things so i feel like i've got a very very good understanding of how to how to be a squash player and what you know what to do like i think i could i think i could be a good coach because i had to work out how to how to do it so much whereas i think people who are good from when they're young they don't understand how they're so good you know if that makes sense they don't understand like completely what they're so good. You know, if that makes sense, they don't understand like completely what they're doing. It's just almost second nature to them. But I mean, like I said, I played all different sports until I was 16. And when I was 16,

that's when I made the first New Zealand team, not the training squad, but the actual team. And then we were going away to World Juniors. I had to train twice a day for that. So I just couldn't keep my commitments to my other sports and teams. So had to do that yeah i like you with long hair by the way the longer your hair i like you better with long hair yeah yeah that was a experiment that one just my opinion probably probably doesn't have hey you said something so interesting right

there uh um so you had to i'm not sure what the phrase you used, but you had to work it out. Meaning – and I also heard you say this two years ago in an interview that freaked me out, that you had a coach. I mean at 28 years old, at the top of your game, you had a during covid um change your technical some of your technical styles uh with your forehand and uh the way you moved around the court and i'm thinking to myself and then you just referred to that as a young man you're like hey i wasn't a natural squash player i had to learn things like how to move and what to do and but you said it with that fancy accent of yours that that shit that shit kind of freaks me out uh uh tampering with um things like your forehand at 28 years old it's it's man i'm still doing it honestly i i don't i don't get off on um competition with other people you know like if if you say oh

this guy wants to beat you up I'm like it doesn't you know that rivalry doesn't really spark me up what what gets me going is like feeling that I'm getting better in myself so you know competing with myself or trying to improve myself so like even even today even when I was number one in the world I was still man it's just it's annoying sometimes because I'm just constantly like tampering with my swing I'm trying new things I'm doing all this sometimes they work sometimes they don't work but it's that's what gets me sort of like you know excited about squash and it's sort of like improving myself rather than I couldn't give a shit you know about rivalries and stuff like that it's

it's not what what gets me going so it's that whole thing. And when I met this coach, I probably wasn't a very good shot player or ball control. It was all about fitness for me. And he turned that fitness and my speed into like a real – more of an attacking squash player. I still rely a lot on my fitness, and that's my base strength. I'll never go away from that. But, you know, I've got a lot more weapons and a lot more attacks

and that's what sort of got me – that's what propelled me up the ranks. But, yeah, like I said, man, I just love that whole aspect about competing with yourself, trying to get better. I think that's why I love CrossFit because you're just constantly trying to beat your own times. You're just going harder. It's all mental. And I love that side of it, to be honest.

And whatever I do, I play a lot of golf and that's the same thing i'm just constantly trying to i'm on youtube trying to work out how my swing goes and i just get obsessed with that that whole technical and improvement side of it can you give me an example in squash of something that you would would tweak would it be actually like how you hold the racket where you put your pointer finger um where you put your back foot like can you give me any example yeah all of that so we changed my grip so it went from oh my god i'm i don't approve this is too scary you change your grip at 28 yeah yeah not massively like i moved so my thumb was where's my camera my thumb was like there and i just moved it up the shaft so it's like next to my

next to my index finger so i'm holding it more like a pencil rather than like a fully closed grip. So that just sort of loosened off my grip pressure because I always held the racket too hard, and that sort of was a way that I couldn't really hold it hard if my finger and thumb were in like a pencil sort of more grip. So we changed that. We changed my movement. So, yeah, you can see I look like a lot looser at my, my finger up top there.

Hey, and I guess if there's any time, a safe time to do it, it was during COVID right when competitions, you got more practice time and less competition. To be honest, that grip change was right before a major. Oh God, this is getting crazy. I was with my coach for a week, and then I went to the British Open, which is one of the biggest tournaments in squash,

and I won that for the first time. With your new grip? With your new grip? Yeah. Mate, I'll try something. I think I remember I'll put something into my game without even trying. It doesn't affect me, to be honest.

I remember for the quarterfinal of the Windy City Open, it's another major quarterfinal. Randomly just changed something on my backhand, and I played one of my best ever matches, I think. There was a lot of pressure on it, and I just felt right, so I changed it and went into it. It's probably not advised, but I can't get it out of my head. Once something's in my head, I've got to try it.

If it feels right, I'll just put it into my match straight away um my um my kids tennis coach um my kid my kids uh just that's all we do my kids don't uh like go to school all they do is just tennis skateboarding jiu-jitsu piano math reading repeat just all day that's all we do train crossfit like there's never like a time where they don't go to school i'm with them all the time right and they they they don't have i never seen have seen any like raw talent in the kids it's just hard work right they're little i'm my wife's a jew and i'm an armenian i'm five five you know what i mean i'm just a hairy dude with the big nose but but they're good at what, right? Because they spend an hour doing all of these things every single day and they're little kids and everywhere they go, people are in awe by them. But it's just, you know, it kind of reminds me of what you said. You're just putting in the work. You're just putting in the work. You started squash late, but you're just putting in the work. You weren't the best player. Maybe worst player on the team right you were saying as a young kid yeah i've seen you actually i follow

your instagram actually i've seen your kids they're they're little dudes man i love it yeah um and the tennis player told me this and this is what's interesting about you picking up squash at 13 he said he was always putting me in my place. I'm like, damn, my kids are the greatest, you know? And, uh, uh, if there's, there's no Indian kids or, uh, Asian kids here, my kids are going to dominate. And I w I just say that shit to make them uncomfortable. Right. Cause race is such a weird topic to talk about. And, uh, he goes, listen, you can't know if a kid's good really until they're 13. And I go is that he goes because at 13 something happens to the mind and most kids their ego will turn on and instead of trying to get better they

just want to start winning yeah and i was like holy shit that's interesting because my kid really doesn't care so much about winning yet he really just wants to get better he's really just in all of his sports except for jujitsu it kind of sucks to get beat up but and all the other ones he just is just working on getting better and i was like oh shit that what do you think about that do you have thoughts on that about a 13 year old boy or girl all of a sudden having too much ego to improve and did you experience any of that 100% and that's something when i look back on i actually wish like i was very good at like trying to improve and do that but i wish i wasn't so focused on results when i was younger because oh man when i used to lose a match i used to be an absolute nightmare for for mom and dad and

whatever i used to just pack have fits you know sulk do whatever and i wouldn't you obviously don't learn when you when you're in those sort of states you're just sort of blocking out basically a trauma that happened to you so you're not learning from that experience you know and i wouldn't you obviously don't learn when you're when you're in those sort of states you're just sort of blocking out basically a trauma that happened to you so you're not learning from that experience you know and i i sort of wish i i wasn't like that and i wasn't so result result based when i was younger i mean it's saying that like i i worked hard and i improved and worked on my fitness but i do think i would have probably got better if I didn't have that ego and I didn't have that, like, so result-based mindset. And I was more about, you know, just enjoying it and learning and just doing it when I was a kid rather than trying to win titles, trying to win all this. Because, I mean, really, I don't even remember the losses now that I used to cry about, you know.

So the irrelevance of it now is is just like and how much pain it caused me when i was a kid is just it's how do you think that um the people around you should have handled that they should have like hit you stop feeling sorry for yourself or i'm gonna hit you no what what worked is um there's one time i i don't know i chuck my racket. I was being like a little brat on court. But mum videoed it and she showed me the video. Oh. Oh, dude, I was so embarrassed. I couldn't believe that's what I looked like on court. And so it was that whole self-reflection,

seeing it from another person's eyes. I was like, dude, I'm not doing that again. And that was like a bit of an eye-opener, how much of a twat I looked like on court when I was throwing my racket and crying and stuff like that. So that was a, Hey, that's brilliant. Yeah. Like it changed me completely. I was like, I can't believe that's what I look like. You know,

I was somewhere with my kids one time and they, I can't remember what they were doing and I just turned to him. I go, Hey dude, I, I want everyone to think that I'm the greatest parent ever. And when you act like this, no one's going to fucking think that. And then, and then so flash forward a month and I was somewhere with my kids and I yelled at him and my, I think we were in the car or something and the windows were down and my kid goes, Hey, the people in the car can hear you yelling at me and they're not going to think you're the greatest parent ever. They flipped the script on me. I was like, Oh shit but your kids are quite smart by the sound of it as well i i well the thing is the more crafty you get with them the more crafty they get back right

they're like it's not a bad life skill to have if you're teaching them that yeah um uh so so i i like that i i'm going to use that i think i think that that's really – because then the parent doesn't – your mom – how did she film it? Did she have – did phones have video cameras back then, or how did she film it? Do you remember? No, it was more – I think it was more like filmed by a camera, and she sort of got the snippet of it or whatever. She sort of – somehow, but I don't know. I don't know because, like you say, there wasn't the phones there there is these days did she know what she was doing when she did that to you i think so i think so i'm not entirely sure but i just brilliant dude it's brilliant because

then you don't have to say anything no exactly like it's like i just shut up and that was it i was like oh wow like so that was that was probably like the most eye-opening way to do it to me because it was just embarrassing yeah and i've also heard you say though that um uh in some tournament you took second place and it was all your kindness and happiness for the guy was all fake i mean i'm paraphrasing but basically you just wanted to fucking cry like you hated it you absolutely hated it yeah that was i think that's again when i was a junior like i used to just it's the worst feeling isn't it when you when you're second and you gotta sort of like smile and do all the polite stuff and you just don't want to be there at all but i have no idea i've always

been too much of a pussy to compete at anything so i have no idea what you're talking about i can only imagine yeah i mean that that's the hardest when you when you got a smile and do all the interviews afterwards when you just had a loss i think that's that's some of the hardest stuff in sport you know like to be that perfect sort of image after after a match that's that's what i find the toughest but i guess that's that's part of it isn't it's part of being an athlete. It's part of being a sports person. At 26 or 27, you're a young, strong, virile man. You have your whole life ahead of you.

You've been playing squash for 13 years, and you hadn't been ranked number one yet in the world. Will you ever go to bed at night and be like, dude, what am I doing? What the fuck am I doing with my life like i'm never going to be number one these fucking egyptian guys are so fucking good they came out of the womb with the fucking racket i'm screwed like what am i doing i'm just going to go back to new zealand get a herd of sheep and just just chill dude um heaps of times man like honestly but then saying that from from my perspective like i i was always told i could be like a top 20 player

at best you know so when someone said that to you at the top 20 at best that's that that's the line yeah they said you got potential to be top 20. I was like, oh, shit. I was stoked. I mean, that's cool when you're 13. That sucks when you're 13 years when you're 26, right? Yeah. So I was stoked. And then you get, oh, yeah, you've got potential to be top 10. So, I mean, my whole career I've sort of like just kept doing better.

So for me it was easy because people thought I was going to be top 20. So when I got top 20 at like, I don't 24 25 25 I can't remember but it was like oh I've already done it I've already done what people think you know and then I just kept going up in the rankings slowly and people never expected me to be anywhere so I sort of flew under the radar in terms of like expectation wise which is I think it's quite good because when i got to one and two that's when i found out what sort of expectation was you know and that's the crippling sort of emotion that i i struggled with the most because my whole career i didn't have that you know like i like i said like people thought i could be top 20 so that was like when that came pretty quick it was like easy you know so that was sort was something I had to learn quite a bit about being number one.

You have this match and you play and you win and that changes the ranking. Where did you jump from? Were you number two and you went to one or were you number three and you went to one? No, I was number two for quite a few months, probably six months, I think. Because it was tough because I was playing pretty well and I was winning quite a few months probably six months i think um and then because it was tough because i was i was playing pretty well and i was winning quite a few tournaments but it was just on the back end of covid so all of our ranking points normally fall off after a year but because of covid they froze the rankings basically or they your points stayed on for like two years so you we never really moved anywhere in the rankings

then all of a sudden it happened quite quickly for me because everyone's points started dropping off i had quite a few good points going on um so it all happened quite quick like quicker than i thought i thought i have to keep winning for like another six months but um it all happened quite quickly so it was looking back it was probably quite good because obviously when you're trying to get to number one there's a load of pressure on it. So for it to happen quite quickly, I didn't really get time to sort of think about it too much, which is actually quite good for me, I think. And you said it was crippling being – like emotionally crippling being number one? Is that the word you used?

Not being number one, man. Not being number one. Number one number one number one i was having the best time of my life man okay i like it i like it i was um i was meeting carlos science f1 driver i was oh yeah i saw that picture that's crazy yeah friends of all blacks like all these famous people man i was people were giving me stuff people were just doing everything so oh yeah nice caleb nice caleb yeah yeah so that car doesn't even look real that car doesn't even look real dude they're insane yeah so i was having all these cool experiences man i was just on on top of you know i was on i was having the best time of my life but then it was sort of when i went back to when i dropped back to number two i um i started feeling

quite a bit of pressure because I thought all this stuff was going to like just, you know, I wasn't going to have all these experiences again. And I wanted to get back to one. I wanted all that, you know. So when I got back to that, when I dropped back to two, sorry, that was when I sort of was struggling a bit in terms of pressure wise. And, you know, I probably had, I also i also yeah i was getting quite tired mentally i was um if i had a loss i was having to take like five six days off because i was i was sort of

struggling with you know the mental side of it and getting tired and stuff so um it was quite a quite a sort of learning experience it was a tough six months back into last year i also hadn't had an off season for like two years so I was mentally and physically getting pretty tired. I was getting all these niggles and stuff, and it was just a hard period for me personally, to be honest. Two questions.

Was the 21 and 22 season compacted? I've heard you say that in some other interviews. Because of COVID, or COVID response, were those two seasons pushed up against each other and that's why you had to play so much yeah so well it was like because people couldn't have tournaments for like a year of course like you know due to like you know people not being able to go into countries and all that sort of crap but and then all of a sudden everyone could have a tournament everyone wanted to have their tournament so we were just playing like through our off-season.

We played July. We had World Champs, which is normally our off-season. August we had British Open, which is normally in May. So you sort of played right through. And then all of a sudden we were playing for 18 months non-stop. And it's just like becoming like it was everyone was sort of getting, you know, niggles and getting tired. And it was tough.

But, like, we obviously didn't play for a good eight, 10 months on a regular tour, probably 12 months until we had, like, a regular tour. So that sort of period was tough. And then I was supposed to have an off-season this year, but I had Commonwealth Games. Our off-season is normally July, August. So I had Commonwealth Games, which is, you know,

that's like the smaller version of the olympics basically but it's quite important for new zealand so we had that which is two weeks best two weeks how often are the commonwealth games every couple years every four years so two years after the olympics so they go in like a cycle like that so that was like best two weeks of my life but that drained you massively so my off season now i'm supposed to getting free did you win that did you win the commonwealth games season, I'm supposed to getting free. Did you win that? Did you win the Commonwealth Games? Yeah, I won two goals there.

So that was like. Awesome. Congrats. Thanks, man. But like, that was like an insane two weeks. And then like that, I can't even describe how much that takes out of you in terms of your mentally and, you know, physically.

And so that was sort of my off season where I was supposed to get fresh and I got bloody, I did the opposite basically. But but i mean i wouldn't change it for the world because yeah winning two golds is like life-changing you know so um what are you going to do about that mental piece what have you done do you get a mental coach do you read a book yeah start smoking weed i'm in the right country for that but don't do that that'll put that that won't help anything no i went back to um i actually for the not for the first time but i went back to new zealand for four weeks over christmas um and so i had a i had a break where there was no media i went to my lake house where there's no cell phone reception and i just trained

and just hung out with my friends and family. It probably wasn't the best time, if I'm being honest, because it's not like a full time to have a break and get a training. But like starting this season, like in New York, mentally I'm 20 times better just from having that break back home with no media. Because I've been back three times, but it's just been full on of media and it's not relaxing.

But I just had four weeks. I said, you know, stuff it. I'm going home, see my family, see my friends, and just chill out, drink some beers, and have a good time. I still trained, but I didn't play a match for like four or five weeks. And that sort of brought my hunger back to play, which was a good thing. So I sort of probably came into york a little bit underprepared physically because i had that break but mentally i'm i'm back to where i need to be which to me

was more important at this time um when you say media what do you mean just like having to do interviews podcasts just all this kind of stuff yeah well because i i came i became number one and i won one you know so like there's a lot of, which is cool, like don't get me wrong. I absolutely loved it, like going home and celebrating, becoming world number one. But because I didn't go home for like three and a half years, I sort of had a lot of that sort of stuff to catch up on. Squash was booming in New Zealand.

I hadn't been back. And because I was number one, you know, there's a lot of media, which was cool, like don't get me wrong. That is cool that Squash is booming in New Zealand. That's awesome. And you probably helped that with your number one ranking. Yeah, I mean, I think so. I hope so that it sort of sparks some sort of young guys to come through.

But that's cool. It was cool to go back and experience it, but it was full on. It's probably the most media I've ever had in my life. So that, again, was quite – I had to get used to that and work out how to deal with that as well um but again it was cool man like i said i was mixing with some pretty cool people so i was loving it um i don't remember i don't even know if what i'm about to say is true but i but i think it is um maybe caleb will find the quote somewhere but someone was asking serena williams if she could beat a certain male

tennis player and she said hey the men are the men are so good at tennis that it's not even we're not even really playing the same sport like and this is arguably some people will say she's the greatest athlete who ever lived that she's like better than michael jordan that she's better than mike tyson that she's like the sorry for being so american-centric i just not uh those are the only people i know but that basically she's the greatest sports player ever that she's just been so dominant and yet she's saying that like hey it's still we're not even close to the men the best men it's just different i have nothing for them is do you do you does any of that resonate with you um is it like that squash are we just different creatures it's it's just physical it's it's like squash is a very fast physical sport and it just becomes yeah the pace is just

too high when if you go man versus woman like women they're very skillful they got all the shots but if they don't have the time to play them because you know there's just a i mean there's just that physical difference isn't there between a man so so kind of like the fastest woman in the united states is still slower than in the 400 meter run or something is still slower than the 400 fastest high school boys so so you think it's you think it's a speak technically they're just as good they could coach just as good they could coach just as good they could do all the like if it were a slower game and they could just do all the trick shots like if you took the best woman in the world and you took you paul cole and said hey hit this squash ball through that um little circle over there they could do that but you're saying it's

like the the actual getting the body there at the right time yeah i mean like so me for example me and me and my fiance will play a double bounce match where so normally in squash you allow one bounce and that that's it whereas we'll play a match where she'll get two bounces um so she basically has more time to get to the balls and stuff and then it's um it's pretty hard for me like in terms of you know she's got all the shots you can do everything and then the pace becomes of you know she's got all the shots you can do everything and then the pace becomes irrelevant really because she's got two bounces to get to the ball and then you know she's got all the shots and can play just as so then it becomes you know way more

close in terms of uh you know i mean it's a lose-lose for me but yeah have you ever seen those guys play um tennis and wheelchairs yeah yeah yeah that shit is crazy i think they get two bounces but that shit is crazy dude i don't know how they do it like it's uh some it's crazy watching that i think it's the best wheelchair sport i've watched the other ones like basketball and some of those other ones and they don't do much for me but the tennis is nuts yeah yeah i've watched a bit of like wheelchair rugby which is just insane it's just like a derby they just like go into each other like crazy it looks painful to be honest but yeah hey this guy talks like um one of you i wonder if this is uh english americans don't say cool shit like this leah thomas that that's a guy who competes against

men in the united states can compete against women's sports too like we can use their bathrooms and compete against them in sports now um leah thomas a man who tucks his anchor into his swimsuit god that's such a european thing to say that i'm gonna start using that word anchor you guys say cool shit but leah i wonder if steve flores i never thought of you i thought you were just a mexican out of la dude i didn't know you were are you european leah thomas a man who tucks his anchor into a swimsuit and ranked outside the top 300 and men swim can beat the nation's top female swimmers anchor god steve are you foreigner that's such a great word it's it's classy right instead of

saying like penis or cock and balls or dick it it says anchor. That's how you guys talk. It's all gentlemanly. I would have been like a rudder. A rudder. A rudder is good. I'm Mexican from Fresno. Oh, my God. Well, you're the you're classy, dude. Anchor. I knew you. I figured I figured you were Mexican from L.A. God. Born and raised in Fresno. OK. Oh, here. Oh, seven seconds. Don't fuck us, Caleb. Seven seconds. So we don't get the YouTube guy to... God's on us.

I'm like, if I were to play Andy Murray, I would lose 6-0, 6-0 in five to six minutes, maybe 10 minutes. Okay. Thank you. Wow, Caleb. That's impressive. God, her body's insane. She's strong, that's impressive god her body's insane she's strong yeah yeah her body's crazy what a specimen i'm looking at my notes i'm sorry there's a lot of awkward there could be awkward silences on

this show it's fine it's my show i think i think i was my favorite episode of you i think you're with talking with i can't remember who it was but you're talking about dropping a deuce for about 15 minutes i thought get me on this podcast hey that's important though right um uh do you have a deuce ritual speaking of deuces um not a ritual i mean on match when the nerves are flowing, the pre-workout's flowing, it's just like a tap, mate. Can't turn it off. It's just – Okay.

Is that bad or is that good? It's not great, no, especially like if I go to Egypt sometimes and you get a bit of the runs and then you load caffeine and nerves with that, you're losing fuel, aren't you? You just don't want it on your mind. It doesn't matter, right? Like you don't want to be out there and be like either I have a deuce in me or, oh, shit, a deuce could fall out. Yeah.

I mean the stress of that, you just don't need that, do you? Can you wear white? Can you not wear white? If you're a real professional, though, you don't even care if a deuce dropped out. I mean, right? I mean it's like it's a point at any cost right i mean like so what you take your pants out there who the guy comes out with the broom sweeps it up and you're you know what i mean and you move on like who cares yeah i scored the point what you'd be viral wouldn't you'd be famous so i mean there's there's ways of being famous isn't there so i mean if i was wearing whites i'd probably prefer not to be wearing whites for

men if i if i got to choose i would not choose to wear whites on that day yes yes they'd probably let you change i remember one time um as a world champs in semifinals one of the guys needed he's like he's begging the umpire to he needs to go do a piss and he wouldn't let him um so i'm not sure they would let you i think if you had one in your pants maybe yeah because the smell would just be getting wait the guy on the court told the umpire i have to pee yeah i have to use the bathroom and this is like mid mid game you know right so he's like no you have to wait till at the end if we get two minutes, two minutes between sets. So he's like, nah, nah,

you can't go. You have to use the two minutes in between. Oh, okay, okay. In tennis, you know, that's a problem in tennis. The guys will take bathroom breaks and not come back. Yeah, but they play for something like stupid, like five hours, don't they? Yeah, that's true.

Steve Flores back in the chat uh seven i heard a guy who does iron man triathlon shits himself mid-ride 112 miles nothing new yeah i know i i um uh at the crossfit games this year uh i think nick matthews uh dropped a deuce in his pants he said he dropped a little nugget in there yeah yeah when he's doing the sandbag. Those boys are pushing their bodies like crazy, aren't they? Yeah, if you can pick a 250-pound bag off the ground in front of a crowd of people and throw it on your shoulder, a little deuce in the pants is fine. Yeah, exactly. Just a little small.

Why are – oh, I'm going to ask you this question. What about – do you use toe spacers? No, I don't. No, because I've always, I've sort of been toying with those like in like the whole, but then obviously if I, if I go too, too wide on my feet, then when I'm jamming them into a squash shoe, they're just going to be super uncomfortable, you know?

So I spoke to my trainer about it and he sort of advised me against it because I mean, I play in squash shoes. I can't not play in squash shoes. And if my feet are too wide all of a sudden, and then I'm sort of jamming them into a squash shoe, it's just going to be uncomfortable. So. What is a squash shoe? So you don't, I love a really wide shoe, but I'm not an athlete. You want to, but my foot moves around in my shoe. You don't want that. You want immediate response from your shoes.

So your shoe has to be tight. Yeah. So I just started using adidas and they are genuinely a wider shoe um for which is good because you want to be quite stable on the squash obviously but i had to go down half a size because i i just can't stand any sort of movement forward or back or left right if i have any bit of movement it's just i can't because we go on quite quick and we have to stop all of a sudden and if you've've got like a slight bit of movement in the shoe, then you're, yeah. Hey, so when you're done playing the game, are you just like, so is that one of the first things you do is take your shoes off? Oh, those green ones are nice.

Yeah. Those are old school ones, those. Yeah, those are dope. So do you take your shoes off the second you're done yeah it's like one of the best feelings yeah because your feet just get especially if we're playing like outdoors in egypt where it's like 30 degrees yeah the floor is heating up all day as well so your feet just become like so hot and like i like if you have a hard match you know when you go on like the spa and you come out and your feet are like your skin and like i like if you have a hard match you know when you go in like the spa and you come out and your feet are like your skin's like looks like it's like old because

you've been in there yeah pruney we call it pruney yeah yeah so like i have some matches where i sweat that much in my shoes that my feet end up all pruney and it's disgusting um uh so you can't get this man some nano twos he i never thought you can't because the split second that your foot would move in a shoe could be the difference between getting to the shot in time it's more about like the stability so if you're flying in there and you're actually doing the splits and you've got to stop and if you move like and a centimeter whatever if you move then you just your whole body tenses up you're not like there's no way that you're yeah so if you move like a fraction like that you're just cooked

you know like that's not you is it that's not you is it yeah that's me about six seven years ago oh my god are you like when you look at that you're are you like i'm not even that flexible i don't even know how i did that dude i can't you want me to do that now, I can't do that. That's game time shit. That's crazy. That's adrenaline. That's what that is. Magnus Holmgren, will Team New Zealand beat the USA again in America's Cup, according to Paul? Yeah, I think we will. We've always got it in us. We've always got it in us. We've got that small country

in us. Are the Americans just not that good, too? No, I mean, that sport's so technical, isn't it? Oh, that's the boat sport. Yeah, America's Cup. Yeah, who gives a shit about that? That's out of our

pay grade, Magnus. We don't know. I don't understand it. It's like one of those sports that's like built on money, isn't it? Built on technology. So going back to that self-belief thing, did you ever trip that like when you think of other people i mean you were the number one player just a little while ago you're the number three in the world right now

and do you trip on on yourself like on on your confidence tell me about not believing in yourself or is that not even the right phrase don't let me put words in your mouth i apologize i would no no i know what you mean i know what you mean i mean it's like i just saw you in that interview where you were just you just couldn't like you just didn't believe it i definitely like if i go on a squash court i believe i can beat anyone like right it's not you know i'll put in so much work that i know i can beat anyone it's but if you asked me when i was 22 if I thought I could be number one in the world, the answer was going to be no. Like I wasn't even number one in New Zealand, you know.

So like to comprehend being number one in the world eight years later or 10 years later, like it was tough, you know, because I was never number – I was playing world juniors. I was top 64, you know, the world junior champs, you know. And the guy who I can compete with for number one, he was number one in the 64, you know, the world junior champs, you know, so, and the guy who I can compete with for number one, he was number one in the world, you know? So like, if you, when I say that, I mean like my whole career, like I was never, I was never tipped to be there. And I personally didn't think I could probably get to number one. But if you ask me now, if I go on

court, you know, I believe I can beat anyone there's no i mean in the past is it even more than believe like when you go out there are you just planning on beating people like even the if you went on the court with the number one guy in the world is it like yep i'm gonna beat him yeah well i mean i've got a i've got i've done everything to to know how to beat him and then it just comes down to execution i've got a game plan i probably got a game plan for every player inside the top 20 that I'll play. So I know exactly how to beat everyone,

and it just comes down to execution on the day. So I don't leave a stone that's not unturned in terms of my preparation. I feel like I'm prepared for every tournament, the best of my ability and game plan for everyone. My coach is very good at game plans. I feel like we, we tactically know exactly what we want to do. And that's,

that's what gives you confidence. If you know that you've done everything you can to, to beat someone that gives you a lot of confidence in itself. I think. What's a, what's a, what's a good age for, what,

what age do you retire? I'd say 35 people people players have played to like 38 but they really start to 35 you start to go downhill in terms of your physicality and like squash is a very physical sport but there's there's players playing at 35 36 now and they're still quick and still have that explosiveness on court and that endurance but you genuinely see sort of people from 35 they get a little few more injuries their speed starts to drop their endurance starts to drop and they can be they can be elite for one tournament and then another tournament they can you know they'll have a niggle they'll have more niggles they'll wake up feeling tired the bodies will not be good and that's where you sort of start to see that consistency not be be as much um but i think today like with sports science and stuff you can

you can a lot you know sort of extend that as much as possible do you remember there being a shift in your mindset like any specific day or a moment where you're like holy shit i can really beat anyone i'm really like at the top of the game like paul on all cylinders is the guy i think yeah it probably started when i was working with my new coach like i was saying and when i really started understanding the game and i understand sort of started seeing the game very differently in terms of what my opponent does and where can where I can expose them and then also having the ability to expose them like you know having every shot in the book and okay if I need to play to

some guy's forehand I'm very confident that my forehand's just as good as my backhand um so I think when I sort of started getting that ability all over the court, that combined with my sort of fitness and movement, I could, I could execute game plans to anyone basically. Whereas before starting working with my coach, my forehand wasn't very good. So if I had to try and expose someone's forehand, my forehand wasn't good either. So I'm just sort of stitching myself up. Whereas now I feel very confident down the forehand wasn't good either so I'm just sort of stitching myself up whereas now I feel very confident down the forehand side so if someone's got a weaker forehand I don't mind shifting to that side or playing down the backhand you know so I feel like my skills now are a lot more

I can execute more different game plans which gives me yeah that's where that's sort of I think when I started believing okay i can actually beat this guy now because i can expose his forehand i'm not doing myself any damage basically when you say you started thinking about it differently or started adding pieces to it is there any example you could give us i i know that there's so much stuff that we don't understand about sports that that people understand that the athletes understand that they're, that they're not talking about like even things that may be even abstractions, you know, like there was that, um,

there was some book I read and they talked about Wayne Gretzky. And the reason why no one understood what he was doing is because he was starting to recognize patterns. So he would see something happening and he would then know where the puck's going to be in like 32 seconds. So he would go over there. And maybe he didn't even know he was doing that. Yeah.

And I think there's definitely like patterns in squash that you wouldn't even notice if you're not sort of understanding that. You know, like the percentage. So my coach is quite interesting. He's a professional gambler. Oh, yeah. I like this. I like this. Yeah. So he coach is quite interesting. He's a professional gambler. Oh yeah, I like this. I like this. Yeah, so he works in percentages a lot. So he will

he sort of analyzes a game of squash like he's betting on it almost. So he would never take a bet. Even if he thought the team was going to win he would never bet if he didn't think it was in his favor. So he sort of, the way he analyzes squash is he goes down to percentages and if you put a ball here, there's a certain high percentage

that he's going to play that to this area of the court. So you sort of can go down that track quite deeply. Obviously, squash happens very quickly. So you need that to be second nature. But, you know, like if you're playing a boast and, you know, maybe 70% of the time they're going to cross-court it. So you can sort of push over that way a bit more. Or if you play sort of a kill, the time they're going to cross quarter so you can sort of push over that way a bit more or if you play sort of a kill again they're going to not really straighten it that much because it's more risky for them so that again they're going to shift

that cross court somehow so you can sort of go to that side of the court a little bit more if the ball's tighter they're going to struggle to cross court that so you can sort of push on you know on that side of the court a bit more so i mean you can go down the rabbit hole of that it's just like endless in terms of. And did you see documents like that with all those numbers written out? Like, does he say, hey, if someone hits a forehand from here,

72% of the time, they're going to hit it over there. So interestingly, we did get like a couple of the top guys analyzed and you can sort of see areas what they played shots. It's definitely patterns. You know know if you got every player analyzed there would definitely be patterns in terms of um where they hit the ball the most from that specific so we actually created a game plan on one of the top players um after we

had him analyzed and we've seen where all the winners came from from his opponent where from where he was so we started putting him in that area and then we started hitting winners and you know i i think i i hadn't beaten him like 14 times in a row and then all of a sudden i started beating him you know and it was like so there is definitely um patterns and squash that you can work out and that's where you can create some damage yeah it's it's so it's so amazing how deep you can get with this stuff for the people who are the best. Um, another thing I heard my tennis coach or not my tennis coach, my kid's tennis coach tell him, he told my kid this when my kid was six. And I just remember hearing it. He said the best players in the world in tennis only win 55% of their points.

Yeah. Yeah. Meaning that they barely win. It's just, it's just a game of, of, and so those margins are like, you have to know sometimes like, uh, one of this really simple examples, you probably know this one from your sport too, is, Hey, this person, uh, 53% of the, uh 53 percent of the the um uh i don't know what you call them rallies they go beyond six shots they lose so if you have more endurance than that person just go beyond six and all of a sudden the odds are in your favor yeah exactly

and that comes down a lot to me because like my fitness is my strength so yeah i try and i try like make the rallies longer and if i get stuck into a lot of short rallies then it generally doesn't go in my favor so um that's where you know that's where a lot of that sort of stats comes in and i think it's in every sport isn't it like you know everyone's got their strengths and weaknesses and it's about how you how you sort of expose those um to try win the match. But it's pretty interesting. Like I never used to be that sort of player in terms of analyzing it that much. And when I learned how to do it, it's like there's some serious benefits to it.

Serious benefits to it, man. I think it's where all the best players are now. I think you have to. Well, you're searching for those small percentages, aren't you, when you're at the top. You're sort of trying to find 1% here, 1% there. and that's one of the easiest ways to do it i think because you just sort of you just it's already there it's not like something that you need to learn how to do you just sort of need the information basically so i've heard people say that these racket sports

tennis squash uh racquetball are the hardest mental sports in the world, and that people don't realize it. And these are the two reasons I heard. One, and you know, of course, there's, I know some people are like, fuck that. How about boxing? I think, yeah, okay, fine, you win. But basically, the two things with tennis is you're out there all by yourself. There's no or squash. You're out there by yourself. And then the second thing to get your head wrapped around is if you're out there. You can still win, meaning there's no time domain.

You're down. What do you guys play to 11 or 14 or 15? What do you play to? Oh, we play to 11. Best of five sets and each sets to 11 points. So if it's if it's do you guys have if it's 7-0, is the game over? Is there a kill like that? No, but it's very hard to come back from 7-love. Right.

But basically, the mental piece is if you're down 10-love and you're out there, you can still win. And that's what makes it mentally just a fucking nightmare for guys you're alone and if you're out there you have to always know hey i can win i'm still out here yeah that that's that's definitely i think where you get it from like if you're out there and people people don't understand and they say oh why didn't you do this and it's like well my mind was just going at a million miles an hour everything was just unraveling super fast. And some things that sound easiest when you're in that sort of zone

is just like the hardest thing. So I think, I mean, people say that squash is like 80%, 90% mental. That's at the top. It's all mental. It's all working out how to stay calm, how to deal with being tired, making the right decisions still. So, I mean, a lot of my training these days goes into, you know, like trying different stuff, trying to work on my mind so when I'm under pressure that I'm still thinking clearly.

I do a lot of stuff to try and, you know, I do a lot of stuff that scares me now. So, you know, when I go play squash, okay, it's actually not that scary. It's just a game of squash, you know. So that's sort of where I've been going down in terms of my mental training is to try and do a lot of that sort of stuff. So when I get into squash, it doesn't scare me. It's just a game of squash. Yeah, I don't think people like me can even comprehend because i because i don't have any

competitive really experience but just now when you said the thought of being out there playing squash in front of people and my if my brain were to start up that sounds terrifying and are you ever like what the fuck do you ever like talk to yourself out there you're like what the fuck are you doing shut up i'm about to play squash i'll talk're like, what the fuck are you doing? Shut up. I'm about to play squash. I'll talk to you later. Shut the fuck up. Yeah, it's more trying to stay in the present, trying to – probably between every rally, I'll say sort of stuff to myself.

It might be different, but it's something that just sort of keeps me thinking about squash rather than about what is going on, what's on the line for squash. Because over the last 12 months, I've had so much go on the line in terms of rankings and stuff. So it's been quite hard to block out that external noise and just focus on the game. So I'll sort of say, between every rally, I'll say something

that'll just focus me in on where we are and what exact point we're on. But it becomes a real mental test when you're sort of competing. And it all happens very quickly. Like squash, you can lose points very quickly, and if you're mentally not there, you can lose a game, and all of a sudden everything's just running away from you and you're by yourself, and somehow you've got to get it all back together under the biggest pressure you've ever faced.

So it's a cool test, though. I love the whole mental side of it um when is your next big match um so we go to egypt on march the 2nd so um obviously that's the lion's den for us we go to egypt and compete against all those guys that they dominated squash squash is massive in egypt so it's cool to go to but it's tough but um it's it's cool to go to because everyone knows tough but um it's it's cool to go to because everyone knows squash and you're quite famous and you get a lot of attention and stuff so it's just pretty cool but it's it's tough to compete there and where do we watch it is it live on youtube or um so sometimes facebook has um the odd live match but they have a

a website called squash tv um so it's just just where you sort of sign up and i can't remember how much it is um but yeah they stream everything through there all the majors they stream through there what's the biggest squash youtube station is there like squash pundits you know like i don't know if you know but like sometimes i'll have guys on this show and we'll just like talk shit about crossfit not sometimes often like the open's coming and i'll and i'll parade a bunch of guys through here and we'll talk shit about the workouts we'll talk shit about the athletes we'll talk shit about the refs is you know what i mean and people love that shit is there and there's people who do that for golf who are killing it um does squash have those guys because it's not maybe i'll do that maybe i'll like try to find

some squash guys who are experts and we just rip on you guys. Go for it, man. Yeah, it's not at all compared to like obviously I follow CrossFit and golf quite a lot and they have a huge YouTube base. But, I mean, there's a couple out there in squash, but I wouldn't say there's major channels or major channels that get traction like yourself or some of the crossover ones. I think squash is just not big enough at the moment.

There's just not that audience of people that are wanting to do it. But I don't know. It's something that I think that's the way to grow squash as well is to get those sort of fans, you you know talking about it a bit more and for sure yeah uh hey great to meet you paul are you are you on we don't we've been communicating through text is that bad does that fuck you up does that like every time i send you text does that cost you a dollar or something no no because i message oh okay good yeah yeah i can spare a dollar for you anyway mate

okay thank you well some i'm one of those weird people who like every time i send a text i send like 10 like i write a sentence then send write a sentence send i'm not you know what i mean i always send like like lots of texts and i always wondered man should i not be doing this to the foreigners no we're on iMessage so it's all good man all right hey uh great to meet you um um what's the name of the tournament in March 2nd in Egypt what's it called uh it's called the Black Bull Open so yeah it starts um we start March 2nd tournament starts yep that's it okay I'm gonna put a note here on my calendar. You da man, I really appreciate you taking the time. I'm glad I got to meet you.

No, it's my pleasure, man. Honestly, it was cool for me. I got pretty excited when I seen your message. I was trying to act cool, but no, it's cool for me to be on here, man, so I appreciate it. Cool. Thank you. You are cool. You're cool as shit.

And I'll see you around. And if you ever need anything, don't hesitate to text. I mean, you're a true gentleman and I'm glad to know people like you. Nah, pleasure's all mine, man. Thanks a lot for the call. Enjoyed it. Alright, brother. Take care. Good luck in March. Thank you, brother. Appreciate it.

Good dudes are good dudes. Someone's not kidding. Seven short text messages in a row yesterday. Rapid fire. Yeah, that's how I do it. Hey, Caleb Send. I like your cat, Send.

Oh, my God, Caleb. That cat is so cool. What's he doing? She's yawning. She had her head down like the Sphinx. Is she sitting? Yeah, she's sitting on my hair. Is she mad-dogging you?

Oh, big time. What does she want attention she just sits here and just bothers me while i work you make um uh having a cat look like it's fun i would love that that looks like just great company she's super chill like she's pretty pretty nice she's basically like a dog i hate a cat that you pet and then it wants to be pet like non-stop like you're like you regret ever touching it she can be that way sometimes but then she kind of like she knows her boundaries she knows not to fuck around with the keyboard or the mouse and stuff like that uh love the cat yeah the cat's cool right i'm not even a cat person that cat's dope makes me want a cat why is your face red were you in the sun i don't know no i wasn't did you take a

bunch of niacin or vitamin b are you scientologist yeah okay you see it's red right yeah i do see it's red i don't know why it's red i've never seen it like that it's weird uh glad to see that the beaver is also rocking the wfh outfit dressed on top and just underwear waffle house i have shorts on come on they're just short shorts sometimes referred to as underwear hey um tomorrow morning like four or five a.m i'm driving to phoenix it's like 11 hour drive for me i know it's crazy so i don't know i don't know what's gonna happen uh today i'm trying to get darian weeks on to do the ufc show today at 1 p.m pacific standard time oh you you're on the text thread he did respond oh he did yeah did he say anything

uh just basically yeah he said i think we'll be good oh god that scares me i know i don't like when he did that yeah so you're gonna be on the road all day tomorrow oh i just got some good news uh yeah so and then i'm gonna be um on the road for 10 days either way i'll keep i'll stay very close to you and susan through text i'll keep you posted um all right we'll be around so unfortunately we had to move uh ronnie teasdale we had to move Ronnie Teasdale. We had to move Raw, which really sucks. I really wanted to hang out with him tomorrow. I'm looking forward to that. He's cool. He's easy, right?

Super interesting dude. Alright. My office smells like this soap. Really? The bomb soap. Have you used it yet? No. Actually, maybe I'll take one on the road with me. Darian is a good dude.'s dope isn't he i know he's so dope i really like darian i'm lucky i got to meet

him uh caleb did sebon uh give you the tracking number for the new microphone no no i haven't sent him a new microphone yet good nice that's passive aggressive hector by the way hector i've been watching your workout videos you're're killing it, dude. Congrats. Dude, that video you made yesterday? Really cool. Yeah, you look strong too, dude. And you're moving good. Congrats. Oh my goodness. Started reading Seyfried, Cancer is a Metabolic Disease.

Oh my God, dude. Are you crazy, Jeff? I cannot. That book is like way over my head. That is a hard book to read. But also you spent $149 on it, right? Unless you get it on Audible, I think. I think Audible is like eight bucks.

But if you wanted a hardcover, it was like $100-something. It was crazy. Yeah, I don't know what the ingredients are on this. I actually have been texting with Dale to find out what the ingredients are and and he's like what ingredients are you afraid of i'm like i don't know i just just shit my wife doesn't is like my wife has just really come up against soap lately all right uh love you guys that was a great show. I really liked that dude, Paul. I'd hang with that dude for sure. Super chill. Yep. And I will see you guys tomorrow sometime. Maybe it's going to be a late night show tomorrow. I don't know how we're going to do it. Or maybe later today.

I just got a text and it says, hi,ael you i've just sent you an important email regarding your green card well thank god i'm not michael did you hear it come in the text yeah hey dude every day um paypal or amazon or apple sends me a text now telling me that my account's been compromised i'm like go fuck yourself all that it has yeah right thank you uh pretty sure doc spartan uses all natural ingredients okay um cory leonard hector is on a journey we are all invested in not just because he's one of us because he's a human who is showing he's in control of his life booyah kasha word all right guys uh see you guys soon i don't want to leave because I feel like it's going to be like 24 hours until I see you guys again, but I got to.

Hector, Trinta, thanks for the support, guys. Are the Hillers going to take over the show again? I guess I could do that. I guess I could ask Andrew to take it over. That would be cool to do a show with Caleb. All right. Bye-bye. Hey, where were you, Caleb, last time that they took over the show? to do a show with Caleb. All right. Bye-bye.

Hey, where were you, Caleb, last time that they took over the show? Oh, it was probably some fuck. It was at night. It was like some weird time zone for you, right? Yeah, I think it was like 2 a.m. or something. Okay. All right. Bye-bye.