The Sevan Podcast - Jesse BiFano | Squamish Barbell #943

Episode Date: June 15, 2023

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Meeting with friends before the show? We can book your reservation. And when you get to the main event skip to the good bit using the card member entrance let's go seize the night that's the powerful backing of american express visit amex.ca slash y amex benefits vary by card other conditions apply oh no not at all no okay good, just figuring out the – just getting it all loaded for the mic and audio. That's all. Thank you.

Jesse, bam, we're live. That's sweet. We did it. How are you doing? I'm doing great. I watched that video that Justin made. I'm going to guess it's like a year old he's visiting your gym oh yeah the Squamish one

it's almost exactly a year old how many gyms do you have? oh just one barely managed that one that gym reminds me of like when you go to some guy's garage and he's like a master craftsman like he builds

like one-off chairs and shit you know what i mean that's actually what i did for a little while yeah really yeah you were you were a woodworker yeah i went to school for uh like fine furniture cabinetry yeah first year wow god i don't feel dumb for making that comparison now. I cannot believe how meticulous and perfect and clean. It's like a – congratulations. I mean I've seen thousands of videos I feel like that kind of – I wouldn't say – yeah, gym tours. And I've never seen one quite like that. It is a place where you go to work on something you love. The tools are as important as anything. don't know it's beautiful yeah thank you very much yeah no it's a lot of uh

yeah that's our that was our third iteration so we started in a different space um 13 and a half years ago and then moved to a second gym location and then finally, that's our third version. So that's my best one yet, I guess. And you love going there. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it looks like you made it. So it's a place where you walk in and you're like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, we did it ourselves. Like, like, we don't own the building. But I took over as a general contractor, like once the building was sort of locked up. And uh and everything you see in there like we we did so like all the woodworking is uh is my own and um anything that was like outside of my wheelhouse or um i wasn't super good at then we pulled people from the gym so it's like all all community driven so people from the gym did like all the specialty work and

everything and there's steel we build a lot of stuff um so some of the gym did like all the specialty work and everything and there's steel we build a lot of stuff um so some of steel work in there is like uh like training partners and everything else super cool yeah well a beautiful facility obviously you're making incredible uh athletes over there but let's stop fucking around what the fuck is up with this stance oh that's frog tell me tell me how have i never seen it is it because i'm a dipshit and i'm not paying close attention no no it's not super common this is a 341 pound deadlift ladies and gentlemen by a 17 year old pro bmx rider i'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's a woman. I've never deadlifted 341 pounds myself. First of all, tell me about that stance. Yeah, it's just a variation, right? So we use

conjugate system. And we'll come back to that because I don't even know what that is, but we'll come back to that. Yeah, yeah. So it's just a variation. So it's not like her primary like her best pull is like 380 um and uh and so she'll pull sumo conventional uh frog ultra wide uh all those variations we have maxes and numbers for so this is just a good variation and um it's actually like some crossfitters will actually end up hitting a pr with that narrower stance just just change the style a bit a lot of people often just are a little too wide with their feet and just bringing them in at all. But, you know, like, you know, for almost everybody that's going to be just not, not their optimal stance.

A little, little wider is going to help, but yeah, just a variation. And are her heels actually touching? Yeah. We go heels touching feet on a 45 degree angle. Yeah. Why have I never seen this? Am I not paying attention? How rare is this? This is like – when I saw this, at first I thought, oh, they're fooling around. It's like Halloween or something.

Yeah. No. No, it's – yeah, I guess – I don't know. I guess you wouldn't see it very often outside of like the world that we're in but uh yeah i mean like ohio west side sweatshop like uh this would this would be something that every everyone's kind of playing with i mean you see it from photos in the 70s and stuff like that for sure there's a couple guys um you know um who uh yeah i've struggled with the names from uh from the past but the, but there's guys who have like three 65 deadlift with, uh, heels touching. Yeah.

Are, well, here, here's a 17 year old girl doing it with three 41. Is this, is this something that, um, uh, every CrossFitter should be doing? Is this like, Hey, I mean, not necessarily need to do it this heavy, but this is like, Hey, this is, this is an important part of the constantly very piece. Like, Hey, you're just strong and conventional. Maybe some of you do sumo, but everyone's missing frog. Yeah. I mean, honestly, deadlift is an interesting one with the CrossFit world for sure.

I think of all the movements that CrossFitters use, deadlift probably has the most to grow for skill set and um and then just variations of like just because it doesn't show up in competition doesn't mean that it's not a valuable lift to train right like you know squats will front squat overhead squat back squat almost you know everybody's doing that and then cleans and um you know squats natural good variations but um or their own thing but uh deadlift is just like either people conventional deadlift or they don't deadlift at all for the most part and uh i mean i think variations are really worth putting time into especially because sometimes you can find quite a large discrepancy between a sumo and a conventional and that sort of gives some good

indication of where some weaknesses may lie and what might be worth putting extra time into as an athlete um everything else is the same about this deadlift yeah totally conventional deadlift because it looks the same to me and she looks like she's for a lift i've never seen before i'm going to say she's doing it perfectly she's a very good lifter yeah like teague's awesome like she's she's in europe right now training there and um the uh she's been lifting with us she's actually gen one crossfit kid so she's more than 10 years into training with us um yeah she's like 141 pounds body weight 380 deadlift um but all of them are tight right so that's 340 i think her conventional is 365 and her sumo is 380 which is kind of like the spread

we're looking for right so like very low discrepancy is she tall uh five eight i think okay i mean for me that's tall that yeah yeah yeah that's tall yeah she she's she's uh she's lean and tall yeah the um i mean yeah she's she's a really cool example for us because she's also someone who um i mean we predominantly have used conjugate method and powerlifting to build her. And I mean, she's got like a 48 and a half inch box jump and like just real, real powerful athlete in a power sport. Right. Yeah.

Tell me what is the conjugate method? So conjugate method. First of all, before I ask that, can you tell me like, like, okay. Okay.

Conjugate method is like originated in Russia.ussia right so it was it was like it's it's a system that's like i mean if you're gonna put it real simple you're gonna say kind of the same things as crossfit constantly varied you know functional movement as it pertains to your objective which would be you know squat bench dead and then nature or the case of power thing or you know snatch clean and jerk in the case of weightlifting um and then perform at high intensity so working as hard as you can so you know it's a it's a system using sort of a ton of movement pattern to build the primary lifts so russia started it um louis simmons at westside barbell found it and kind of ran it with his own direction. So originally it's the system Russia used for weightlifting. So it was a Russian weightlifting system. China used it as well to model their Chinese weightlifting system, which is why you see, I don't know when you talk to those guys,

I don't want to speak past my sort of like what I can say for sure. But I mean, when you listen to the Chinese coaches and those guys speak, you're but i mean when you listen to the chinese um coaches and those guys speak you're kind of feeling like you're hearing the same thing so like a ton of accessory work um and like movements that are variants used to build snatch and clean and jerk and so louis and west side barbell took that system, adapted it, and started, you know, he ran Westside Barbell until he passed, I don't know, maybe I think two, a year or two years ago. But it's a, I mean, it's built world champions. And it's really cool because it's been, he applied it not only to power lifters very, very successfully, like strongest gym on the planet. he applied it not only to power afters very, very successfully,

like strongest gym on the planet. He also applied it to a ton of sport athletes from, you know, UFC fighters to Olympic sprinters and saw huge progress and gains for them. I mean, to be honest, like I actually found it, I found it a video CrossFit journal. I mean, I don't know know maybe 11 years ago of dave castro um out of this weird gym in columbus ohio pulling like a sled with his like hands below his knees um and then like carrot like pulling a dragon sled like that across the yard um and it kind of piqued my interest and so i found west side through crossfit. Yeah. Is the conjugate system,

is there anything definitive about it in terms of its time? Like all the cycles are nine weeks or? Yeah. It's always three steps forward, one steps back. It's raised the weight three. Is there anything like that? Are there any percentages that they're dogmatic about?

Anything dogmatic about it like that? That defines it. I don't mean that with a negative connotation. Yeah. No, I know what you're saying. Yeah. So you've got sort of four primary days a week. So you got two max effort days, one upper, one lower, and you've got two dynamic effort days, one upper, one lower. Okay. And when you say upper, one upper, one lower, what does that mean? So specifically as it relates to powerlifting, it'd be upper days, it'd be bench or pressing

patterns. Okay. And then lower would be squatter dead okay so upper body lower body yeah yeah two max efforts a week in each of those yeah uh no one for max one for upper one for lower so okay for us like um you know what do we do sort of uh last monday we maxed we did a three rep max good morning. And then last Wednesday we did a one rep max two board bench. And then the, go ahead. No, no, you go ahead. And then Fridays are like speed day. So that's like dynamic efforts are going to be,

that's where we apply bands or chains to the bar. So we'll do those squat and deadlift both with bands predominantly. But done like, you know, we'll do 12 sets of two on the 45 seconds or on the minute for squats. And then, you know, 12 singles on the 30 seconds or 45 seconds for dead and the waves for those days. So maxes cycle out every week and then dynamic efforts cycle out usually every three weeks. But I mean, there are, yeah, in general, that would be,

that'd be how it kind of moves through. And bands and chains, are those required pieces of equipment for a conjugate for the, for the strength training? Yeah, totally. Yeah. I would i would like no but it is optimal okay freak almost always seen if someone's they have those are some of the tools totally that they use okay yeah the dynamic efforts just aren't the same without that band apply because you're you're looking to sort of have that accommodating resistance so the change in in tension from the

bottom of the lift to the top of the lift so you're looking to sort of force that accommodating resistance so the change in in tension from the bottom of the lift to the top of the lift so you're looking to sort of force that accelerating speed so you know you can like there's ways of cycling without it but eventually that's kind of where you're going to end up so for building like explosive power that would be what we predominantly lean on for like sport athletes okay that makes sense uh pardon me uh here uh a minute i wish you didn't have to see this ugly side of my um family here uh trish uh sebon you've been with crossfit forever and you don't know what conjugate is listen you ding dong i know everything i wouldn't the only reason i have a podcast is to try to teach you guys shit i don't know i Podcast with me would be just me sitting here staring into the eyes of my

guests. That being said, I have no idea what the conjugate system is. So no, you're right, Trish. There was one more in here. Oh,

Heidi Krum. So Russia started CrossFit. Not nice, Heidi. I see what you did there. I see what you twisted up there. Okay. Before I am – it's funny that you say that the – or interestingly, you say that the deadlift is – in CrossFit is – what was the word you used?

An area where there's still a lot of room to grow or explore? Yeah, totally. Because it also seems like it's one of the favorite lifts of CrossFitters. The deadlift, right? It basically just picking, no, basically just picking things off the ground. Don't, don't CrossFitters just like to pick heavy shit off the ground. Like when I was introduced to the deadlift, I kind of got addicted to it. But you're right. I only did conventional. I didn't do sumo. I didn't do frog, but I like picking them stones off the ground bars.

I became kind of addicted to just picking shit off the ground. Yeah. I mean, the deadlift is Totally. I keep kind of addicted to just picking shit off the ground. Yeah. I mean, the deadlift is fantastic. I mean, it's amazing. So for powerlifting, you know,

the other two, so squat and bench press both have a, um, down before it goes back up. So you get to load into it, but the deadlifts up only. Right. So the deadlifts just that raw starting strength.

So it's just that barbell sits on the floor and you can either raise it or you can't. And even for equipped lifters so people who would compete for powerlifting who have like suits have you ever seen that like yeah yeah heavy so like even for those so like you put those are the ones that kind of the shirts kind of yeah it's great it's crazy heavy duty yeah exactly yeah yeah super extreme like those those guys i mean, um, it's, it's very different and it's, it's, um, it's, it's definitely super hardcore, but, uh, I mean, you put a squat suit on and it changes your, your number dramatically on the, on the squat. You put a bench shirt on, it changes that number dramatically on a bench. You put anything on for deadlift and

it maybe gives you 50 pounds is what, you know, I think most, most people would say, um, again, I don't have a ton of experience in gear. Um, but it's just cool. It's just something you just can't, can't, um, mess up with too, uh, too much for like, you can't cheat it. It's just like, you know, throw a belt on, uh, and you got to work as hard as you can. So it's, it's a great lift. It is the belt exercise. Say again? It is a belt exercise question mark yeah 100 yeah yeah man i need to own a belt i'm 51 is it too late for me to start incorporating a belt

in i get a belt for sure okay uh barry look at everyone's excited excited uh barry mccalkiner uh 525 deadlift everyone wants to just like like that. I appreciate it and I respect this. This is crazy. That's a great lift, Barry. Geez Louise, 485. Awesome. Jeffrey Birchfield, I did 5x3 at 405 the other day. Not bad for a guy who's 112. Thayson Hopper hit 450 deadlift last

week, 230 squat snatch Monday and 305 clean and jerk yesterday. Dang, dude. Yeah, some strong cats um in the in the audience okay uh i had no idea we were gonna start the show like this but let's keep going with the deadlift okay uh pro beach volleyball player yeah yeah leanne are you kidding me? Yeah, she's awesome. Is it possible for every healthy, able-bodied person, and by healthy, I'm just saying you can jog a 400-meter track. You've got one pull-up.

You can ride a bike. You know what I mean? You can wipe your own butt. You've got some of the fundamentals down in life um to to um uh let's say under 60 to deadlift 400 pounds could you teach any human being to pick 400 pounds off the ground outside of like some sort of i just say no no okay that okay. What about 300? Well, I guess men or women, I guess, would be the thing. I mean, definitely. This is a woman right here, right?

4'35". This is mind-boggling. This is great. This is like, I saw this. I'm like, you play volleyball? Why do I not? And she even got the volleyball sweatshirt on. Like, fuck you.

I play volleyball. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's, yeah, I mean's so that's sweatshop cincinnati so that's shane sweats gym um one of his athletes like i mean shane shane is a stud coach um you know that's who i do sort of our podcast with um he's been in the game for for a long time i mean like he's had lifters break all-time world records like time and time again like huge huge lifting happens in ohio um yeah for us we've we've been pushing that like chasing that 400 for for women in our gym for for a while um we've got maybe like 30 plus women over 300 um and like, you know, Teague's at 380. One of our girls just pull, I think.

That's a 17-year-old girl's at 380. Yeah, yeah. I mean, she turns 19 this summer. So that was two years ago. But yeah. Can every man do 400 pounds? Well, I guess depending on like health health and training volume etc yeah outside of outside of of being you know have some having some sort of like a permanent decrepitude like can you teach

every let's just make it easy every any 20 year old kid who comes in off the street if he puts in 10 years of work to to deadlift 400 pounds yeah i think that i think that feels pretty reasonable yeah that's amazing i'd like to think that'd be the case yeah uh seven you can't i i don't know maybe i could yeah yeah where are you deadlift at now the other well i i don't deadlift i i i mean i never i rarely deadlift over the other day i deadlifted 165 for a bunch of reps and a crossfit workout usually i do just um 135 for sets of 10 somewhere in some sort of workout but the other day for the first time in probably four years i i did pull 295 and it came up kind of easy but but then i visited it again like a week later and it, it didn't come up at all.

Yeah. But I, but I have serious mental issues. I have serious fear, like real, like real fear. Have you ever had any issues with deadlift before? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Like before I started CrossFit, I would hurt my back four times a year. Oh yeah. I was immobilized. And then I started CrossFit and I only started hurting it twice a year, but it was always fucking around with the deadlift. Right. Yeah.

I feel that like that ping. And then I would be crawling to the bathroom for a week. Yeah. And I'm not blaming anyone but myself. It was always like, there were always signs. Totally. Yeah. I mean, I've, yeah. It's one of those things that sucks. Like the deadlift gets a, you know, bad rap for beating people up and back issues. And then it sucks. Once people have a bad experience with it, it's like having a bad experience with a box jump.

Like it's real hard to build that sort of confidence back up and, and push it again. But the box jumps in that category too. Yeah. I would say like a box jump for sure. I mean, you jump down and something, is it your back or what goes out? Oh no. Just like if you fail, like if you like a box jump for sure i mean you jump down and something is it your back or what goes out oh no just like if you fail like if you fail a box jump it's hard to build confidence like if you got someone who's jumping like high high jumps and and uh they have like a misstep and and bail it's hard for them to like regain that confidence um because that's what it is i mean the other side of it too is if you know you've got sort of like if you're getting breakdown on a pattern then for us that'd be something where we start to look at,

you know, why that would be, and then try to attack it with other means. So rather than build the deadlift by more deadlifts, we would build the deadlift off of like seeing where breakdown starts to occur and then like applying accessory work to like fortify those areas, bring up those weaknesses and then retest deadlift and see if it had a positive effect or not. What would some of those movements be? Uh, it depends where you're getting breakdown, but you know, for deadlift, like in my experience, like it's been the difference between going from like a 300 to 400 dead and four to five, five to six, six to seven. Like it's kind of, it's been a pretty cool road

where I feel like every sort of hundred pounds, um, the deadlift asks like something different to you. So a lot of times at that base level, like the initial phase is just understanding the moving pattern and getting it right. So very common issue is to set the deadlift up the same way you would set up a clean or a snatch where you're going to have the weight shifted just maybe a little bit more forward on the foot uh the knees track a little more forward so you get a more forward shin angle and the hips are lower but the clean and the snatch are optimized for that movement from the knees to the hips right so you're trying to get the most out of a cleaner snatch above the knees to apply that force to barbell. It's no one's having a problem on their snatch or their clean

from the floor to above the knees. But the deadlift, it all happens in that first couple inches in general, especially when you're new. So that that position then is really important. So having a much steeper shin angle, the hips are a bunch higher and being able to understand the basics of like bracing and position to make sure you're in a good star position, you know, the weights, you know, driven through the heels, um, you know, dialing that in gets you your first, you know, bunch of weights and then you start to see sort of breakdown, but usually then it starts to occur through like that classic like low backgrounding right so either lead from the upper folding or uh just just that sort of if they can get to the start position you know their mobility is good

right so they can set up a great like setup then you're like okay they've got a place to start and if they fail as they start to pull then we know that it's something else and usually it's bracing um so we pour a ton of effort into midline work oh like things like sit-ups ghd um yeah some flexion extension patterns to the spine um yeah absolutely yeah front squat i mean depends on the athlete like for sure front squat for for um cross the bar yeah totally yeah those are the patterns like elbows we'll do strict toes bar yeah these elbows a little more old school now it feels like i feel like those are the patterns that were like you know it was the last time we've seen those those are great though totally yeah i agree i mean you can destroy someone's midline yeah yeah yeah

yeah absolutely i just want it's just one of those funny ones from like cross it back in the day you know right um the uh yeah yeah it just feels like knees to elbows is one that you're like It's just one of those funny ones from like CrossFit back in the day, you know? Right. Yeah. Yeah. It just feels like knees to elbows is one that you're like, oh, you don't see that. Plank? Plank for sure. Yeah.

Plank. Plank. So it's like isometric holds for sure with like tons and tons of variations. So like, you know, variations on those patterns are going to be like we will have someone in a plank position up on like a bench with their hands and a box of their feet. And they would sort of like hang kettlebells off of bands at sort of that hip level. So instead of hanging plate weight off you, we'd hang kettlebells and bands. And they might have someone do like cross body shoulder touches. So they raise their hand off the bench touch opposite shoulder. So something that sort of like forces, like trying to create stability from instability, you know, a lot of rotational work, like just lots of variation.

I mean, same, same as CrossFit's doing just as, as much variation as we can get. So we're not sort of like failing to adapt to stimulus, like changing as much as we can. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. Classic. Yeah.

I remember seeing that. Yeah. Yeah. Things like that for sure. Trying to be creative. Like, I mean, there's always that component that, you know, one of the things I think that has made CrossFit super successful has been, uh, just, it's real fun, interesting and different. Right. So then trying to apply that to accessory work and strength to keep the you know motivated motivation there is uh is like high value so try to incorporate new pieces and you know whatever we can get sort of positive uh changes from i used to trip on this too speaking of a breakdown position whenever i would hang out with uh rob orlando i'd be like hey that um that picking up the uh the stone yeah oh yeah picking up the stone

is actually it's like the worst deadlift form but actually yeah my back loves rounding like that when I pick things up like it yeah I actually it actually feels good yeah the stone is like the stone is super cool that first clip with the wall was one of that was one of our best uh uh strongman events we ever did it was that wall stay at that one yeah let's take a break here for a second why before we go back to the stone oh man it was just it was such a short uh time domain and just like soul crushing like people said some people still reach out be like dude hardest event that i've done in my entire life interesting what's the stop what what's that look like when someone fails that

uh there's spotters on both sides okay so you see those guys in the background just chasing it with their hands yeah and then there's tires in the ground as well so there's the it can't actually get all the way to the ground so okay yeah yeah it's uh yeah we got some crazy photos from that was super cool man yeah we we made it plate loadable, we got some crazy photos from that. It was super cool, man. Yeah, we made it plate loadable. So you can see on the top of that wall on the outside is like, we built sort of like a way to slide plates on the end to like overload it. But yeah, I was working on a job site and it just crossed my mind, like wondered what

was the like most, the heaviest wall one person could possibly stand by themselves. And so we turned it into an event. So we put that wall on like a hinge at the bottom and worked it. So that one video, that clip at the start, is actually one of the strongest men in Western Canada. He came out and did the event. Yeah. So there's a hinge at the bottom, meaning that thing can't slide.

No, it can't slide at all. Yeah. Okay. It's on a hinge and all. Yeah. We're good at building things. But yeah, actually. So I guess the point with the stone piece. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Really interesting. Right. So it's something that like for sure, because it's everything you're not supposed to do. Yeah. Yeah. Totally.

Yeah. It's stone is so cool. I love stones. We do quite a bit of stone work and um the stone pick is like it's different right because one you think of the deadlift bar where your hands go your mid shins right but a stone is not only like at the ground it's like your wrists bend to get under the stone so it's like so low right so it's a much deeper pick for that, that start position, the difference in, in, and again, this is just my opinion, but in my opinion, a deadlift bar is optimized, right? So like, if you got to cross a bar, you're like 28 mil, 20 and a half mil. If you got a deadlift bar, you're 27 mil. Uh, the knurling is super aggressive

on a, on a specialty bar. It's meant to be lifted. It's got the right whip. It's like the most weight you can lift, and everything is set up for you to be successful. A stone is the opposite of that. So even a light stone still takes substantial bracing. So much of it's off your midline.

It's just like... You just have to grip it hard to have it's off your midline it's just it's yeah it's it's like you just have to you just have to grip it hard to have it come off the floor at all so i think where on a deadlift when you grip it and start your pull because everything's set up you mix your grip or you hook your thumbs like all those sort of things allow you to be it allows you to sort of still be successful when maybe you shouldn't, you know? So you can, you can be kind of lazy, have your background and be like, ah, this sucks, but I can still make it. But a stone, you're like, the bracing is so much that like, if you, especially if it's really heavy, um, if you back off your tension through your body just a bit, it's over like that stone

goes straight back to the floor and that's the end of it um so although you are getting a ton of flexion through that deadlift you can almost kind of rest as a exaggeration but you can lean back and as it's coming up and push it off your off your shins or whatever you well you can just have your background and still keep pulling because you can you can be relaxed and still lifting but because you you can you can be relaxed and still lifting but a stone you you can't really be relaxed and still lifting so that's that that's kind of it's pulling you in more than one direction yeah bar's just like going up the stone's actually trying to get away from you yeah and you're and you got that crushing strength so

you're like you're actually like you know squeezing it between your arms as hard as you can as well and yeah yeah stone stone is stone is a very special lift. But what about the rounding of the back part? Why is that okay with stones and it's not okay with deadlift? Well, I think because even though it's rounded, you still have a ton of systemic tension. Right? Meaning everywhere else there's tension. Including there.

Like even though it's rounded, it's still braced and tight. It seems almost neglectful not to do stones, even if they're light, if you're going to be deadlifting, just to help. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, stones are – I mean, honestly, it's – if you're going to talk about functional movement and that you care and train for life train for life or etc i mean if odd objects are not a part of that training i mean are you training for functional movement right you know to its max capacity right and you and you do see those weirdos who who like when they sumo like their only deadlift is the sumo deadlift sorry sorry to pick on them but i think they're always

like the super strong guys, but they can also barely reach the bar. So the guy's got an 800-pound deadlift, and it almost seems like he's in the sumo, and it's almost like he's reaching with his fingers to grab it. I just remember seeing Dave Tate do a demo for CrossFitters one time. Oh, yeah, Dave. And I was like, this dude can barely fucking walk,

but I just saw him pick up fucking 500 pounds. Like it was nothing. Yeah. But also he could barely get to the ground and pick it up. It was bizarre. Yeah. I mean, Dave, I've never met Dave Tate, but like, uh, I think, I mean, that dude is a stud. He he's amazing.

Like he's one of the greatest mobility. The stones will enforce mobility, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're getting to the ground or you're not playing that game yeah totally yeah but you're giving up something right so when dave like so the one thing to like i mean yeah dave has limited sorry i didn't mean to talk shit about like no no no no like and i didn't i wasn't yeah i mean the like um like dave dave has limited ranges for sure i

remember those videos actually those original i think three or four of them on CrossFit journal. Um, yeah, I was curious. I actually thought about that the other day and wondered if they're still up and around. Um, they're good videos. I mean, that was the next. So after that video, a Dave that I saw, Dave Castro, the next ones were those videos with, with Dave Tate.

And that was like, that kind of sealed it up for my interest. Like, cause it just, you know, CrossFit or conjugate just felt like the same things we were always talking about in CrossFit, um, just with a extended application. Right. Um, anyway though, the, yeah, Dave, I mean, he's like as a lifter, like when you watch like, um, uh, Jamal, um, Jamal Browner, like, you know, that dude's arguably, you know, maybe greatest of all time for uh sumo these days he's like 242 like in that like a thousand plus range like for for sumo and like

um and you see like the how he kind of like gets prepared to like reach to the bar that he's like tensioning tensioning tensioning so a good deadlift I mean you want to feel like you can barely get to the bar get your hands on it because everything is so tensioned and tight. And then as you press into the floor, that everything's there to support that sort of like leg drive and transfer all that force to the bar. I mean, the other thing with stones before you get too far past that is you're talking about moving a fraction of the way to your deadlift. Like most people talk about 50% or less, right? So on top of that, you're like, yes, fraction of the way to your deadlift. Okay. Like most people talk about 50% or less. Right. So on top of that, you're like, yes, you're in a suboptimal position, but I think between

the like bracing and the fact that you're moving like a substantially lower weight, right. If you're a, you know, a 300 pound deadlifter, I mean, you're probably best case working at like around 150 pounds stone, uh, to load it to a table and less if you're going to the shoulder an example would be i guess also looking at um the sandbag at the games right although it's not a stone yeah you have this this um i don't know cantankerous is the right word but you have this yeah oh yeah it definitely is not cooperating no it's got some weird gives in it and uh it's definitely odd

and and it probably more annoying than a stone oh yeah yeah yes it's like yeah i would choose a stone over a sandbag um 10 times out of 10 per personally like give give the opportunity to move those two things yeah um lots of questions coming to my head let me let me do go back to the comments here real quick they're piling up very quickly uh uh we i my i wanted to hear about your history i might have to have you back on because i have a feeling we're gonna have another hour talk of of uh i want to know about the repelling from helicopters and all that oh yeah yeah you're you're a man of adventure vincent ramos uh jesse can you please talk about the reverse hyper and benefits? It changed my life with two broke vertebrae. Oh, I've had a few of those.

People always suggest the reverse hyper to me. And now I have an almost 500-pound deadlift, Vincent Ramos. Thanks, Vincent. Reverse hyper. Is it a must? Is it bad for anyone? Is it a must? Is it a must?

I mean, it's pretty valuable. Yeah. Yeah. I never hear anyone poo poo it. I never hear anyone poo poo. Oh, people do for sure. They do. There's lots of people out there.

Yeah, of course. Always with anything. Right. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there are like, so we have a full practice built in the gym as well. So we've got like three like massage therapists two physios cairo so we have a pretty sort of like well-rounded group of coaches and and practitioners and yeah there are definitely some cases where depending on how cute the back is where you're like yeah

that's not the time to be on their verse hyper but in general for a healthy athlete if your facility has the space, I mean, you're saying it's sorry to go back saying you're saying it's a tool for a healthy back to prevent injury. It's not necessarily a tool to use to fix a busted. No, you definitely can. Absolutely. Okay. You can, you could definitely use it in the rehab process, but you just have, there's an acute phase like post injury

in that first little bit where like it may not be the best choice and you've just got to sort of assess those things right that's that's where we definitely work as like a team of practitioners and coaches to like give recommendations and advice but yeah for sure like i mean our power and our sport athletes would use a reverse hyper in general, at least twice a week. For CrossFitters who are competing, I would have them sort of be able to add that as extra work. I mean, we only have two hypers at the gym,

so I can't like have it as something we cycle into classes for everybody. But it is like- For people who are listening, when he says he only has two, most gyms have none and the lucky have one. listening when he says he only has two most gyms have none and the lucky have one so when he says he only has two um but uh yeah i you know like if that's a you know that's louis simmons invention from west side um but yeah i think it's actually really interesting when so when we when the whole covet stuff was happening um and we had you know our

rules were crazy and challenging and um not to spend any time on that but there was a while where about for three months we had we couldn't really use the reverse hypers um the jhd like equipment that you would kind of share everyone's kind of like in their own space using their own things and over that three month period as we got to the end of that three months and started to be able to use stuff again we started to see a whole bunch of stuff come up as like issues and injuries with athletes that we just otherwise never deal with because they didn't get back on them slowly the three-month break from a reverse hyper or ghd well sorry go ahead no no you go ahead go ahead i was gonna say that uh it kind of usually takes about three months for stuff to wear off a reverse hyper or GHG? Sorry, go ahead. No, go ahead, go ahead.

I was going to say that it kind of usually takes about three months for stuff to wear off. So if you've been using like equipment and you've used that for years, that it takes about three months for the value of those things to wear off and you'd be to kind of zeroed out again. So I feel like that three month window kind of like got people like back to,

you know, what it's like to not have those machines and the value of those implements used. And then as you got back into it, I mean, I don't think it had anything to do with those. It just was that three month time window where we started to see people like, ah, my back's bugging me. My hamstrings give me a hard time. Like, you know, my hips are bothering me. Like all these things were like, man, these just aren't issues our gym deals with at all like we just don't have these kind of problems and um started to see that stuff creep in without sort of regular time spent on uh like ghd uh reverse hyper and then like the like atp that belt squat machine as well uh-huh yeah those those are like you really should talk about those are staples for us us, for sport athletes and power lifters and competitive CrossFitters.

The is there is there a definitive place we could point to people who want to do reverse hyper? Like, hey, watch this video. This will explain to you that you're supposed to use it in the beginning of a workout. Start with this amount of weight. Yeah. Just type in west side barbell and reverse hyper like on youtube yeah you'll get a bunch of it i think there's some stuff with like uh kelly starrett um from back in the day as well but there's lots of stuff with louis like

i think there's some video of him explaining it when the uh crossfitters all like that initial time when uh they took a bunch of hq staff to west side i think there's some of that video still up there um on youtube of him explaining it talking it through those guys and yeah yeah jesse but what this guy's saying here vincent is saying um it changed my life with two broken vertebrae yeah it's also that's not the first time you've heard that right the people claim that the reverse hyper has saved their back right it's a con yeah uh yeah it is actually yeah it is it is something you do see quite a bit i mean louis invented it because he broke his back twice

and says that he wouldn't have i mean west side wouldn't exist and that he wouldn't have made it uh to where he did as a power lifter had he not built a reverse hyper is it kind of the same i'm strengthening the yoga people will do this thing. I guess we call it a Superman where basically you lay on your stomach with your arms in front of you. Yeah. Raise your hands. Gently lift your hands. Yeah.

Off in arms off the ground. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, stimulus it's yeah. It's another stimulus. I mean the hyper, you're getting that sort of like you're getting that forward range as well.

Right. So you're going to get pretty large range of motion. So at the front of that, we're actually going to try to like, let the pelvis tilt and roll almost like a little bit under the table okay okay yeah but you're not getting when you're laying flat on the ground at all totally so you're just getting that hyper extension like you're getting that extension range like on a more traditional uh like like the old school like uh global gym, 45 degree, like back extension or, you know. The reverse hyper is, it's not as potent as the GHD.

By that, the GHD set up. By that, I mean, there was a time in my life where I could just go in the gym and do 50 GHD, you know, 10 pull-ups, five rounds, and I would barely be sore, even though I just did 250. But if I did like five ghd today yeah i would be fucking sore as fuck for a week just going through that range of motion is the reverse hyper as potent as that like you could just fuck someone up like that no no no okay no

you know what i'm talking about like yeah definitely yeah you take some time off and you're fucked yeah totally yeah so you have to be uh you have to have a current inoculation to it yeah great inoculation yeah it is strong like that okay i like that yeah totally uh jacob dickinson uh jesse's an awesome guy and a great uh source of knowledge that's nice to say that's for sure well it also, you don't have to scratch the surface very deep to, to right away, start to trust you. Eaton Beaver, a 500 pound deadlift, no back issues, three minutes with the weed, weed eater, back is smoke. Yeah.

Interesting. Volume. A real life, real life story, right? Yeah, totally. Well, I mean, there's a, one thing that's always like so awesome about strength is like there's different kinds of strength, right? So it's like there's strength, endurance, speed, strength, strength, speed, absolute strength.

Like, you know, there's like strength isn't just one thing. So it's, it's kind of cool to be like, yeah, there's the difference of like, you know, that's, that's why one rep maxes are so awesome is because that's absolute strength and you just can't display that other ways. They are awesome. God, I love you. They are awesome. Let me tell you some things that, like, I hear.

Stop deadlifting. It's dangerous. It's not worth the risk for profit and for gain. Never do one rep lifts. Yeah, totally. Yeah, classic. But these are not, you do not prescribe to these no subscribe prescribe you don't prescribe or subscribe yeah that's true actually

uh and and would it just come down to um uh safety and the efficacy of the of the program that you're on that you would say it's the right coach yeah i think yeah totally i mean all those elements are those are all factors for sure. I mean, like, you know, Justin Ellie will do maxes every week, right up to, you know, whatever we are, we'll be, you know, 10 days or 14 days out from the games. We'll, we'll still be working maxes. I mean that like, there's a lot of pieces to maxes. So like one is having a facility that supports those being done successfully. Right. So like with a back squat, we would never drop a barbell.

So back squat bar front squat, of course, overhead squat, of course, the safest thing you could do if it's not going well is, is to dump bar right and and then practice that skill but for a back squat we would we would never dump the bar um because it's not the safest way to do it um because it could roll down your spine hit your butt absolutely no it's bad i've seen it a couple of times uh over the years and you're like it's the worst like you like athlete goes to dump it catches them and yanks them over backwards they fall backwards with it like i mean you scan youtube for what happens when back squats go poorly right um so for us do you do them in a rack or with spotters or both we do them yeah we would

say like if you have the opportunity and you can train out of a rack you know figure out in your warm-up sets where those safeties go but don't pull the safeties on a rack. I mean, they're right. Why would anyone do that? Why would people do it? Cause they're just like, can't be bothered. Can't be bothered to set them up at the right height. Like just pull them out. Cause they're like, well, it's going to be fine. And what could go wrong? But I mean, the more time you do things,

the more times there's opportunity for things to go wrong. And I had a, I blacked out, you know, it was a bunch of years ago now, but I blacked out on a, like for doing reps on a safety squat, uh, once, didn't see it coming at all. Had two awesome dudes who I trained with always spotting me. And it just happened so quick that, um, neither guy had a reasonable chance of even grabbing the bar. Um, and it just wasn't a big deal. I mean, the bar bounced on the safety.

You called it a, what kind of squat safety squat so the one with the pad and the okay like kind of a horseshoe pad and what do you mean it happened so quick you don't get you didn't get like a one one one not at all nothing yeah i stood up like it was like rep eight i stood up at the top and like my stomach kind of gave a spin and i was oh your stomach gave i didn't think twice about it and then went back down and started to come out of the hole and just like clicked off yeah no shit yeah which i mean that's the only time it's happened on a squat the um uh yeah and so like it went straight to safety pins what do you think what do you think it was would Would you attribute to like, I didn't have enough coffee that morning or to my right sock on first or to my left sock? Yeah, the safety squat, especially like,

I find I think like tension through neck, it's like a blood choke, right? That's why it ends up happening. Oh, okay. So it's just like, for me, it felt like that. Like it just was like, it just was finally enough pressure that it just just like yeah just it was super brief like it just off off and on just to flip the switch does it kind of feel like a medal of honor did you get

that like kind of like no no oh no i don't like that sort of stuff yeah and it's like kind of cool like check like check oh that's cool no that kind of stuff i mean throwing up on a lift and that sort of thing is just like i mean i prefer not do uh yeah given the opportunity the uh yeah i mean try to always move as a like try to be as professional as we always can as a as a lifter and an athlete like move professionally move like a pro uh behave like a pro uh and then try to achieve those results best you can, you know? Um, but the point was just like, well, the safety is in place. I mean, I had a ton of wiggle room. So the bar bounced off the safety pins, you know, I sort of like sat back, took 20 minutes, the other guys finished their maxes. Uh, and then I jumped in with them for accessory carried on

the session, no harm, no foul. But, uh, but had that been different situation without the safety pins set either an appropriate height or in at all. I mean, that could have been a real, real rough secondary that, I mean, honestly, for our CrossFit side, cause CrossFitters at our gym will max out, um, maybe not once a week, but it's pretty common to max out almost once a week for upper and lower um and say tell me those tell me those movements again that would be press overhead bench press for a crossfitter it could be yeah any anything that's kind of a yeah yeah bench like it could be you know shoulder press any any sort of pressing pattern or what don't you max out would you would you max out a sumo deadlift high pull no probably not that's better as an accessory a secondary piece okay that's a good

accessory or secondary that's still pretty broad compound so like if you were going to use that in training i would have tendency to use it as like maybe the third thing on the list and and with that movement there's a it's like the kettlebell there's a no man's land. By that, I mean in bench press, theoretically, you could stop the bar anywhere with any weight. Right? You could stop it here. You could stop it here. You could stop it here. But the sumo deadlift high pull, you're max.

There's a spot where you can't stop the bar. Same with the kettlebell, right? Yeah. No one's stopping a 72-pound kettlebell out here. Yeah, totally. you're not you no one's stopping a 72 pound kettlebell out here yeah totally and so you don't is is that a good litmus test for things not to do maxes with um even the pull-up even the pull-up max pull-up you can stop anywhere yeah totally yeah i mean can we max pull-ups yeah totally yeah okay yeah both for load and for reps yeah absolutely

yeah and then all grips right neutral chin pull flat how about this movement uh lateral raises you do max on that uh no because again that's sort of like it's that's an accessory in a theater pattern right like it's something where like we don't care about like the it's like it's i guess it depends on what you care about so like i mean there is i mean i think i i'm not i'm not exactly positive but i think louis sear the canadian from you know history still holds the record at like i think his max hold in that lateral race position is like 85 pound dumbbells. Holy shit. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess people do the iron. I mean,

not, I guess people do the iron cross. Yeah, totally. Yeah. So it depends on me, not what your goal is. So I guess if you're asking for CrossFitters and like sport athletes, I'd say,

nah, like we're probably not going to do that. I mean, sometimes you do stuff for fun. Like you can, you can have something you're like, I will just see what we can do for, you know, this movement or that, just for something to break up where things are at with training, sort of like, you know,

when training is super hard, sometimes it's nice to sub something and it's just, just fun. Uh, Brandon Waddell, uh, reverse hyper was the best piece of equipment I've bought for my gym. It's been a lifesaver for my low back issues. Does everyone have low back issues? A lot of people definitely have low back issues. I mean, it's a world of sitting. Blade Walker, I love deficit deads. I know me too.

And I wish I didn't like them. It's to the point where I work them for strength more than regular deads. Is that a problem or is that just making me strong as fuck? Yeah. I sometimes wonder if I shouldn't be doing as many, like I don't ever do them heavy, but I like doing them too. Just like,

yeah. I mean, there's, I, cause it feels good again, right? It's that stretching. It just feels good.

Yeah. That deeper position. I mean, yeah, for us for sure. We're like, we're going we're gonna work deficits on like different heights i mean i mean west side's had some big deficit i think

some of those guys are have pulled like i want to say like eight or ten inch deficit uh which is i mean that's with real weight not just like totally like that if i'm doing stuff like that i'm doing it with just the kids bar 20 yeah yeah 100 yeah yeah yeah we we pull kind of like we kind of top out about four inches like that's about as as much of a deficit as we'll take um and then we'll work everything from like four inch deficit to uh rack pulls or block pulls where the bar is like elevated off the floor i mean there's some really cool ones because you can also pull a specialty bar deadlift, right?

Sorry. Is that this bar? Yeah, yeah. That's, I mean, that's a great, that is a severely underrated. Like a sunset bar or something? What do you call it? It's all, I mean,

originally it's a Buffalo bar. So the original name is, I'm pretty sure it's from Westside and the original name is a Buffalo bar. Rogue named their name is, I'm pretty sure it's from Westside. And the original name is a Buffalo bar rogue named their version of that Buffalo, Chris Duffin, on the West Coast has his Duffalo bar, kind of mod off his own name. And then, like Westside, I don't know where they're at for selling barbells now. But theirs was like, they just had bow mega bow was what they called it and um there that's that is a fantastic bar to pull a deadlift yeah yeah yeah we so justin brought that

bar up when he came up last year and we max it as a deadlift and i mean it is it's real spicy it doesn't want to stop like that right that's just they somehow tricked it wants to always fold does it always want to fold it'll stay like that in a rack it'll stay like that a rack but on the floor you'll have someone who kind of like stands the side and keeps it vertical until the athletes got their hands on it if they're gonna pull so i mean why is it spicy it should be easier right because you don't have to bend down okay totally that's exactly what people think. So like the, um, I mean, shorter athletes will probably find it easier, but as a like average height or tall athlete, we'll find it very tricky. So one, that bar is 38 millimeter. So it's, it's thick as fuck.

And on top of that, it's incredibly stiff incredibly stiff so with a stiff bar you essentially on a deadlift we're going to have none of the weight and then all of the weight uh okay okay so you don't have that like ease so you know a good deadlifting bar you see that like that's a like that's a bad thing i don't we don't you want a stiffer bar because you get quicker transfer of power no no deadlift bar no look at like heavy deads especially these days so you know so they i feel bad for them when the bar bends like oh my god they're wasting all that effort no they're they're sort of like wedging in and loading into it so that whip on it i guess i don't understand that at all

same as an olympic bar right yeah same as like clean and snatch where you want to have that kind of get because you get a bounce you kind of catch it on there but on that deadlift bar you get that nice bend into it you wedge in tight it kind of like takes attention takes attention takes attention and okay yeah so once you get it off maybe inch two to three or two to four is actually helpful because you get a little bit of a well and you're not taking all of the weight from the lowest position right so then you are sort of like you are getting that sort of a, well, and you're not taking all of the weight from the lowest position. Right. So then you are sort of like, you are getting that sort of like good wedge in and start position. So you get that good leg drive, you get that wedge in and you start to take the weight and you sort of can kind of like, like ease into the trigger pull, I guess. Um,

but with that bow, like, I mean, one, you're getting all the weight all at once and that subtle change in height can actually make a deadlift harder for the first couple inches so if you elevate a deadlift bar like a little bit off the floor then you actually can take out a bit of that leg drive that starts the bar and you end up with like this like min max spot where it's actually the hardest spot because you're you're not getting that initial start leg drive and you're not quite where the hips are optimal to really do their job and it can be you can actually see a d like decrease in one rep max load as that bar is just like a couple of inches or three quarters of an inch off the floor so i've experienced that thinking i was going to make it easier by lifting it off the ground. And it actually, it didn't.

Yeah, totally. So you're saying this idea that I'm getting is like, hey, be barefoot, do deadlift on concrete, get immediate transfer of power through your body to the bar, right? Up through your body, through your arms to the bar. You're saying you agree with that, right? I would not go barefoot. Theoretically. But as thin as shoe as you can get i like a tight shoe i i think a shoe actually um i like the i find that why not go barefoot but

theoretically what i'm saying you agree with just not in practice right yeah i i like the rest of those pieces for sure but barefoot like um i mean there's nothing wrong with it the piece i would say is like are you getting the most out of the lift and i i feel like the answer to that is is no um because i feel like there's just too much in the foot with all the small bones and the way the foot can move that the shoe so the nice thing about being barefoot is one of the things that actually makes it not as value not as good for the deadlift as just like if you get like a good like remember that like i mean they're i think they're pretty impossible to find these days but remember that

like when reebok was building those like high tops and they had that like real stiff wall high top shoe that was like their power lifting shoe they did it for a little while yeah yeah yeah i'd only seen pictures of those i know man that shoe is so good um so like that kind of shoe where you get it's like extremely tight like sidewall to the shoe um it's like okay really thin so you can tighten those laces and actually get a good tight foot so if i like especially if you're a wider stance like any of that push out you're getting you're getting no roll of the foot and you're getting no like squish of the skin like all of that sort of stuff is like is removed. So it's just, I prefer a shoe and think it achieves a better result.

Yeah. And I feel you on that. But what you're saying when you grab a bar and you're lifting it off the ground, that, that, that isn't your call. You have this, this concept of like wedging in. And then also what i'm picturing is is when you finally get it off the ground the outsides actually if you keep moving yeah you can utilize it yeah actually lift okay yeah totally it's funny i'd never thought of that yeah probably because i'm not lifting anything um uh heavy enough uh it's pretty cool with like

a deadlift bar like that's what makes them kind of special right because the deadlift bar you're gonna have a 27 mil so it's almost like a half step between like a women's bar at 25 mil and like a men's bar like 28 28 and a half i didn't even know there was a deadlift bar yeah totally yeah yeah but like there's lots of them people make them now yeah texas texas bars and uh rogue uh do they use those at the games i think they did actually i think they used yeah i think they used them they i i don't know for sure but i want to say they used them in that deadlift ladder at the ranch for the anniversary i i think but i i don't feel 100 confident in that um uh the uh Dick Butter where is this guy located where is Squamish

right on the ocean on the west coast of Canada so we're about 45 minutes north of Vancouver Canada pull up a of course I can I'm going to try to pull up a of course i can't i'm gonna try to pull up a map here ah here we go it's funny i i i didn't i thought i knew where it was i did not think of it as being on the west

coast yeah yeah that's us right there beautiful british columbia how come i don't see it did i zoom out too far yeah zoom in a little more oh there it is okay yeah yeah so we're kind of halfway between so whistler was the 2010 winter olympics um we're kind of halfway between uh vancouver whistler amazing drive along the ocean from vancouver to squamish oh and um incredible area crossfit had its 10-year anniversary when that's right actually right up through there yeah yeah 100 yeah so you can see the chief in the photo there so that's like the uh large block of granite i mean that granite is like old school yosemite like it's just like uh very similar just way way less volume of traffic

on it hey um so you to to you're you're kind of isolated so to see you you have to fly into vancouver and then make that drive north yep totally yeah that's a lot i mean justin those guys all just will drive up from vancouver washington uh because it's actually i mean from portland you're maybe like five and a half hours or so six hours maybe yeah so yeah right from portland oh so they just drive up yeah they drive an hour that's only five hour drive yeah i mean well i mean it kind of depends on what happens in seattle but the uh but if seattle is reasonable yeah yeah super easy drive you mean in terms of traffic totally yeah um totally off subject here uh that um that event at the um games where they had the rucksack on the back and they were asking the athletes to do pistols do you have any opinions about that i didn't hear anyone talk about that but i remember

i remember thinking i didn't like that and most of the athletes were on their toes when they were well i shouldn't say most a lot of athletes i saw maybe it is most were on their toes when they were doing those squats i just didn't like putting the athletes in that situation do you have any thoughts on that you don't have to have any thoughts on that but yeah i mean yeah not really i think i mean i always say with programming for events like so we we've hosted a ton of events here we've had you know crossfit competitions i worked for the games for six years or so i guess you did what years were those uh 20 so we hosted uh sectionals so before if you remember before uh the open so i think it was like maybe one year so we hosted sectionals for british columbia in 2010 and um i worked through 2010 until my last year was 2015 so 20 2015 did you work with curtis bowler was that something

oh yeah oh yeah okay good friends with curtis awesome yeah that guy is oh man the best he curtis is the best again that guy is so awesome so i worked with curtis yeah i actually knew curtis um from before that because uh he had a strongman. So that's how we actually got into strongman stuff was through Curtis's fundraiser for Fragile X in down to his, his gym. And that's actually where I did my level one. So I did my original level one at Curtis's gym with Dave Castro and and um dr mike uh oh that's a lease ray's husband yeah that's right yep and uh yeah rob wolf did the nutrition talk and uh yeah god that must have

been a good one yeah i think it was like i think it was like oh i want to say 07 or 08 maybe. Yeah. We actually met at my level too. You and I did. Yeah. Was it in San Diego? Yeah, it was. Yeah. Or no,

sorry. San Francisco. So we met, it was at a Freddy's gym. Um, Oh no shit. What year was that? That was January of.

Oh nine. So that was like, you'd just done the, uh, every second counts. Jason Kalipa just won the cross of games. So that was like, you'd just done the every second counts. Jason Kalipa just won the CrossFit Games. So that was a crazy L2 because that was the old school one, right? And that was like Kalipa was there, John Wellborn, Carl Paoli. Like it was just a ton of studs in that in that seminar and also me how old are you you look too young to be at a l2 in 2010 i'm 42 wow you look good oh thank you yeah good job yeah i thought i thought you your skin would be all

cracking and broken and i thought just from being in the cold weather. Right? No, it's the cold that keeps you healthy and young. Look at those Icelanders. Oh, good point. How did you meet Adam Neiffer? Well, actually, so it was at Curtis's event. Oh, okay. Yeah, the first time I met him, we were both competing was at Curtis's event. Oh, okay.

Yeah, the first time I met him, we were both competing in his Strongman event. For those of you who don't know, Adam Eifer owns CrossFit Fort Vancouver, been to the games probably 10 times. Oh, man. Yeah. Coaches Justin, Ellie.

He's the best. Best person. And he's got a couple other – he he's he's got that young girl um trista yeah and and and i think maybe a couple others yep as well ton of a ton of uh masters athletes yeah it kind of um i mean you could argue he's one of the most knowledgeable if not the most knowledgeable crossfitter on the planet i mean there's there's definitely an argument for him you got to put him in some sort of it's insane hall of fame yeah he's a uh and and like any and he's not what's funny with all that being said i don't think of him as

a games a gamesista i don't think of even though he's coaches all these world-class athletes i think of him as uh method method methodologically one of the most sound uh crossfit coaches in the world like he'll help you with your parkinson's i mean shit the uh he's incredibly smart yeah incredibly smart uh brilliant strategist extremely thoughtful um just he's a great person um yeah inside of that cross around i mean yeah like having the category kind of all by himself right i mean he's getting into this kind of really rare air i mean he would he would probably yeah he would hate us saying yeah it's true but it's true but it's true it's's getting weird with the whole Justin thing he's doing with Justin now is in Elliot's just, he's getting into this weird space.

It's yeah. He's awesome. He's an awesome guy to work with. So we met at, um, at Curtis's vent and, um, a couple of times. And then it was actually at that Whistler, um, tenure. So we reconnected that was their tenure, had some awesome conversations. And then it was the, so that would have been September in 2019. Right.

Was he coaching Justin at that point yet? I guess he would have just started maybe. Okay. I think. Cause he, I don't, I can't remember what year he picked up justin so then he reached out to me in like two weeks after the 2020 games ended and um and just gave me a phone call two weeks after 2020 yeah okay he he reached out and just

said hey i've got an athlete that, um, I feel like maybe you might be able to help with. Um, we're, you know, trying to do, you know, accomplish this with him in this next, like a couple months. And, uh, and we're wondering if you'd, you'd be interested. And, um, to be honest in general, I would say no. Um, only because I just, I'm really tentative about anything that would be remote programming is I just don't know that it's best practices. And you showed that in the, in that video, you talk in a video, I watch you talk about that. Like, yeah. Okay. Yeah. I just don't think it's, I just don't, well, you're not coaching. You're just a programmer, which is not say just a programmer. A programmer is a big deal for sure. But, uh, but it's just I just don't, well, you're not coaching. You're just a programmer, which is not say just a programmer. A programmer is a big deal for sure. But, but it's just, and especially the system that

we use, it's really easy to not necessarily make mistakes, but just be suboptimal by not choosing the best weight selection or just, yeah, not understanding how to set things up correctly, et cetera, et cetera. But because of all the COVID stuff, the Zoom thing was kind of a piece then. And although I had kind of opted not to do anything with Zoom, that I was like, well, let's give a session a try. And we'll do an upper body session. We'll give it a try on zoom and see if it's like possible and, um, and gave it a try and, um, thank fuck. Cause it's, it was awesome. I, I, yeah, I was really tentative to say yes, but, um, we hit it off, um, like pretty straight away.

And, and he was just so coachable. Like it was, it was amazing how easy it was with just the phone on a tripod to just be like, hey, you know, this, you need to set your shoulders a little more like this. Like try this. And he's like, how's that? You're like, oh, it looks great.

We were just able to move from one piece to the next. And he would just move the tripod around the gym as he was doing these different things. And the session went well. And then it also always has to work for like both the coach and the athlete, right? So there's some times where, I mean, no harm, no foul, but sometimes it's just not a good, good connection or a good combo. And in this case, it was it, everyone seemed pretty happy and and they asked me to stay working with them um a couple times a week from through november to new year's um and i said i would as long as every session was always on facetime or zoom and that was that was my as opposed to

just sending programming okay okay yeah i was just not interested in just sending programming. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I was just not interested in just sending programming. Um, cause I've just seen it come up short too many times. And, um, and so we started doing that and then new year's, um, they re-evaluated asked if I would stay until the like 2021 games. And, um, and yeah, we started at two sessions a week and then we went to kind of, we do pretty, we're, we're always three sessions a week and then we went to kind of, we do pretty consistent. We're, we're always three sessions a week unless it's like a recovery cycle or something like that.

And you still do, if he's not up there, um, you still do it by phone. 100%. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I don't miss a session unless I absolutely have to, but I hate it. I hate missing a session. Um, why do you think, um, Adam, get i'm guessing um i'm guessing adam told um justin hey i know this guy up in squamish you do you and i'm assuming then justin said yeah

adam whatever you think i trust you absolutely i'm guessing i'm getting but i'm just making that up for anyone who's listening don't take that for is the gospel let's assume that that i'm that's true um why do you think adam chose you why can't adam do it he i mean he's so good at everything why didn't he go to um there's why cross up the border you know that's just a fucking hassle um why do you think he chose you what do you think he saw i mean that's probably having the best question asked for adam but um you just liked how clean you kept your gym well i was gonna say the way the best part about that video is the log area where people log their information that i wanted to go up there and drink a cup of coffee and just dig through people's logs god yes, you know what? Sometimes it's super interesting. Sometimes it's very disappointing.

Is it? Oh, it's just sometimes you open some of those books. There's actually nothing in here. They just wrote their name in the front. That's all that's in here. I just like that whole area of your gym. Anyway, why do you why do you think Adam chose you? What did he see? I think he sort of felt that, like, you know, based off the conversations we'd had, that I might be a good fit for adding something as a specialty skill. I think Adam does a really fantastic job, and I've thought a lot about it just because I think it's actually

a really valuable piece. It's like know where, you know, same as like, if you were competing in a team, team event is you need to know when you're like, Hey, I could keep going. But if I step back and let this other person step in, the result for the team is higher because although I could continue to produce reps, I can't produce them as fast as uh letting someone else take the lead now you know so if you're working as a team it's like knowing when to be like i got this but also knowing when to be like i'm gonna step back and like let someone else run the ball had he ever coached it had he ever come up and trained with you no did you know did you have any famous athletes come out of your gym like uh um do you think he was watching like your work with this 17 year old yeah we also

had uh kaylin at the time who was also i mean we had some uh we've had some solid success with teens um so we had kaylin at the time who was you know like 198 body weight um 620 deadlift uh and he was like i think he pulled i think he broke 600 at 17 as well wow um and uh had a bunch of national and world records for powerlifting and like but was still like such a stud athlete like you know we've got video of him um pulling 500 stepping back and there's doing a big backflip on the on the platform you know, we've got video of him pulling 500, stepping back and there's doing a big backflip on the, on the platform, you know? Wow. So we'd, we'd been successful at building teens. I mean, we're a town of 17,000, but Squamish actually produces quite a lot for, for athletes in quite a broad spectrum of sports. But, but yeah, we talked a lot about youth and then like that young and then how we were doing what we were doing.

And I think he just found it interesting and thought that it might be a good fit. And I guess the, initially the idea was that commit was low, right? Like if we did that first session, like this guy is a nut. No, thank you. That I mean, no harm, no foul. And same thing if we got to Christmas and hadn't produced any results or they didn't feel like it was valuable. Like my piece always was I don't want to I want to I want to help as long as I'm helpful. You know, like I don't we don don't have any, there's no commitments, no ties and contracts. Like, uh,

I'm around to be as helpful as long as everyone finds me helpful. Um, it's, it's kind of like, um, uh, uh, tinkering with, uh, like, um, I'll give you a real world example. I was at the Arnold one year in the late 1800s and i was filming an arm wrestling event and there was a masseuse there and the masseuse worked on a one of the best arm wrestlers who ever lived named ron bath from from the east coast of the united states an amazing arm wrestler and ron then went up there and arm wrestled and he lost the match a match he shouldn't have lost and later we found out that the person who had worked on him he suspected had done

something to like it wasn't the right kind of massage to get before doing a maximum yeah that seems like a terrible choice and so how do you handle someone bringing in it's it's kind of like um someone like basically adam rolled his lamborghini into your shop yeah right and um there had to be some trust he had to have known that like oh uh jesse buffano uh works on lamborghinis he's not going to like fuck it up he's not going to be like hey let me try some new fuel in it and see how it performs you know what i mean um yeah i mean so he would sit in on the sessions for the first while right adam would yeah totally and there's always that opportunity like for me um yeah i mean his, his gym thing is like his gym motto, I guess, is like hungry, humble, awesome.

Right. Um, and, uh, and I think that that's just those, you know, those pieces are, are what sort of carry him forward for being able to like, you know, best assess. I mean, I think as a coach, you also get a pretty, I mean, if you can't pick up things quickly from like who people are, you're going to be less effective at like coaching them. Right. So one of the things. Were you insecure at all dealing with him?

Like, let me give another example. Someone brings in your carpet cleaner. You've been cleaning carpets for 15 years. You're a master at your craft. You fucking make $300,000 a year cleaning little oriental rugs. Right. I don't know if you can say that word. I can. I can. I can picture what you're saying. Yeah. make $300,000 a year cleaning little oriental rugs, right? I don't know if you can say that word anymore.

I can picture what you're saying, yeah. And then someone fucking brings in a rug you've never seen before that's fucking from – that they said Christ sat on. You're like, oh, shit. Like what if I start to rub this rug and it falls apart? Yeah, totally. 100%. Of course. I'm just imagining like Justin shows up there and you're like fuck like i mean even if

you have a perfect track record you're like what if i what if i fucking make him do the frog dead lift and he blows out his knee oh yeah 100 yeah i mean i mean but but as a strength like as a strength coach like aren't you always kind of under that gun with good athletes? I guess. I mean, you sound so confident in just even in effect with the, with the one rep max maxes, right? Yeah. Like, I mean, you could go on Instagram right now and find a thousand people who would like never do one rep max.

I mean, you can find them athletes. Very cool. Probably athletes. You work. You do work with athletes who are like, no, Jesse, I don't want to do one rep maxes. No, no. Okay. Okay. No. Cause it's just not our style okay you know and there's i'm not saying that there's not other i mean there's there's many ways to be successful and this is just the the way that that we do it right you know so it's not that you it's not that there's not

other ways that are like well you know i did this and it's working great for me. You're like, that's awesome. I mean, if it's working great for you, then great. That's just how we do it. And I don't want to be – we have to – we've been successful by doing it the way that we, it's a constant learning. Like, I mean, there's always learning and always pieces that are like you're trying to improve at or be better at. I mean, I feel like I've got, you know, a long road of learning ahead still. So yeah, absolutely. I mean, when Adam was like, I've got an athlete, you're like, okay, like, you know,

tell me about them. And they're like, it's Justin Medeiros. He just plays at the CrossFit game. He just podiumed the CrossFit Games. You're like, hmm. Next to the greatest of all time. Next to the greatest of all time. You're like, yes, no, I know who you're talking about. Yeah, crazy. And he's so young.

Yeah, totally. Absolutely. So you must see potential, too. A part of you, and I guess on the other hand, I'm asking if you're afraid another party must be like, wait till you see what I can do with this young whippersnapper. Yeah, also true. Yeah.

Yeah, totally. You're inspired by it. 100%. Yeah. I mean, his work ethic and his attitude is like, people are like, how, you get asked like, what is he like? Because we'll probably spend, I mean mean six hours plus on facetime every week together um wow and uh and uh people like you know what he's like he's like dude what you

see is what you get like how he how he comes off in his youtube videos he's like that's just him you know like he he is a genuine super high quality guy um and just a you know he's a he is a pleasure to work with and i mean that's the thing he's got a little bit of santa claus in him yeah oh you know what i mean like yeah he's just like he's he's big yeah yeah he's a big personality yeah but he brings like not obnoxious just big oh i'm here oh yeah like i think it's cool to see like the things like i've been very lucky to have the opportunity to work with some great athletes um and it's always funny because you feel like the things that people are like oh must be nice to have the genetic potential or the the gift of this or this geometry or and you know honestly, the thing that I see that's the most common thread

across all of those groups is attitude is a differences. The attitude is always like, I mean, those like, you know, Justin, um, you know, Jamie, one of our girls is, um, just signed with the UFC this spring, uh, had her first UFC fight, likec fight like um um april and the thing you see like you know those athletes come in the gym tegan same thing is like how did she do how did she do in that fight yeah good she won yeah oh she did it was yeah it was awesome yeah it was it was awesome it was so cool i was i was so lucky to have the chance to go yeah this chick, Squamish. Yeah, right out of Squamish. Yeah, that girl's got depth. I mean, she's a killer. Loves to fight.

And did her coach contact you the same way Adam Neifer contacted you? Like, yo, I got this girl? Yeah, actually, she reached out to me directly. So she reached out as the athlete. I wonder how she knew power i wonder how she knew strength training would be was for her well actually we both competed in lager sports together oh no shit and so she's just a tough tough human period she's tough 100 yeah yeah super tough yeah her face looks tough doesn't it She's that might be hurtful to say.

Yeah, I don't mean it. I don't mean in a mean way. I just mean like, like she could be a bouncer. Like you just look at her face. She's not serious. She's serious. She's not. She's she's she's there to fight for sure. Like, you know, I was super lucky to have the opportunity. She asked if I would go and corner as her third for the UFC fight. and corner um as her third uh for the ufc fight and wow um it was really super special yeah i was really lucky i mean i have no business being there um so it was dude that's very awesome jesse yeah yeah it was it was amazing it was it was so but just out was that at the apex now we're way i was yeah i love i love the u i love the ufc and i love fighting yeah i can't believe that was at the yeah oh dude getting to see the apex like behind the scenes and getting to see like how the whole machine like works and especially especially having worked for the crossing games yeah and seeing like how it works

like what things are the same what things are different how they do this and how they do that like oh man like so dana's like somewhere behind you right you're like up on on the fence, and you can reach and pat him on the bald head. No, you know what? I don't know if he's there. Honestly, I was too stressed about freaking taking a bad step and stepping off the edge of the stage. Right. Being the dummy hurts their back walking down the stairs.

Stealing the show. Yeah, so I don't know who was in the room. Okay, before we get back, I want to go back to Justin in a second, but I want to ask you this question too, before I forget what, what is, oh, by the way, her back is absolutely beautiful. Yeah. Right. Back is a dream. Two questions looking at her back.

What about working with really lean athletes like this? Is this, is this, do you prefer not to work with him? This lean? And then what the fuck is this thing? I want to, why do I want to try that? That only exists here. what is that the that rubber banding um weights to you and does that require help like someone doing that to you yeah i tell you i throw the band on yeah once you're in you're kind of in uh that's a so we call that a rhino harness um what's that actually is a

there's they have one too that goes even lower and has a pin off the hips but we put the pin off the chest so we we built that um that's 135 pounds she's walking with yeah fast yeah which to be really honest is very few people uh man or woman can could actually do that what she's doing right there yeah 100 yeah it's brutal it's so terrible. Your midline, you think it's good, and then all of a sudden your midline is done? Whatever your weakest link is, like upper back, mid, lower back, hip, whatever is the weakest in your posterior chain, it's going to exploit that,

and you're going to hate life. You're going to get within 50 meters the end and still think about taking a knee or putting it down. All right. Are you going to patent that and then have a bill sell it over at a Mr. Bill and Katie? They are tired of you. Any ideas for Bill? Oh yeah. Isn't Bill great.

I've never met him or spoken to him or Katie either, but, but I have been a rogue. I went when i went down the arnold maybe in 2016 or 2017 um i'd sent a bunch of stuff and i'd met omic um through the cross at games yeah so i met omic and then met with him at rogue and signed an mda with those guys and because i have a bunch of like we do all kinds of stuff that we've built in the gym and um and definitely i mean to be fair i feel like i should be a equipment tester for rogue yeah i agree some stuff like i don't know there's anywhere in the world that is cycling through the specialty bars and that sort of stuff as often as we are so like there's there's stronger breaking meaning you're breaking bars well just how often we use

them so like all of our crossfitters use all especially bars, all of our lifters and sport athletes use all especially bars. We use specially bars. I mean, most days of the week. So like that kind of equipment gets used all of the time. So there's things that, I mean, over more than a decade, you learn where you're like, Hey, this is what sucks about this bar. This is what could be better about this bar.

Like so on and so forth. Like, so you look through those bars and you're like, I would do this. I wouldn't do that. You know, this would be better for like, this is how this should be. But yeah, I met with Amik, real good conversation. Awesome. We looked at a whole bunch of stuff, followed up a couple of times, had some other pieces, but eventually they're like, I mean, you just stop responding to my text. I've had a bunch of, I don't know, a bunch, but I've had some ideas for Bill.

And one time I had this idea for a ladder, but you mount it on the ceiling anywhere in your house and it turns into monkey bars. Okay. So, so you could buy three of them or five of them and you could build like monkey bars in your kid's room, right?

Ladder up the wall and then mount them. And, uh, he basically, he responded to me. He, Bill actually drew it out, hand drew out the,

my idea for me. Yeah. And then said, go shop at somewhere else. I want nothing to do with this shit. And he, basically for reasons, he's like, I don't fuck with kid shit or something. And I'm like, I'm not mounting shit on the ceiling. So fuck, some people fall off and sue the fuck out of me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I just loved him the fact that he was kind enough to draw it. He drew it out for me and then like, get the fuck out of here. Don't bother me with this fucking crazy shit. Yeah. Yeah. I was sending videos of like, because we'll cut some stuff apart.

So we'll cut rogue things apart and be like, Hey, we cut this apart and like rebuilt it like this. Or Hey, we did this or mounted this on the GHD. And like, I just got like the don't, don't do that.

All right. Good talk. All right. I'll text you the, don't, don't do that. All right. Good talk. I'll text you the next good idea. But there's some stuff. I mean, like it's every little, I mean, there's all, there's just a bunch of little like the Velcro on the rings always has made me crazy. You know? Like, it's like, like it always fails. When you say Velcro on the rings, you mean like. That just holds the loose, like. Yes. Yes. Yes. Right. Like who doesn't have like, when, when does that velcro on the rings you mean like that just holds the loose like yes yes yeah right

like who doesn't have like where when does that velcro last like every gym has like missing velcro but if you take a thin single strip that's like double-sided like what you use to hold like your you know cables for your computer all together yeah and do on the back like one it's less material two it's less stitching uh three we did that like more than a decade ago on all of our rings and it still works why does the thin work better than the one that they have on there well because the one they have on there it's not this it's thin it said it's it's the one they have on there's two parts and it just rips oh okay versus this goes around as a constant loop okay yeah but yeah that among other things we're just like no thank you but yeah yeah i mean lots

of stuff i mean i don't think they take it uh to be honest with you i think they're just they they're they're cursed with success oh man they're rogue is and yeah don't get me wrong in the sense of like rogue is the coolest yeah there's there's like Rogue is so like when you get like the first reverse hyper I ever got was, was from Rogue and the fact that they cut a separate plate that says Rogue and that has four bolts, the mounts of the side of that machine, you're like,

that's just the, like that costs the money. It doesn't need to be there, but it's fucking awesome. And that's why it's there. And you're like, that stuff is awesome. you mean it costs you money but you're like i just love it i just love that they're like you know that they're like the

attention to detail their um innovation like i mean like rogues change the game before rogue you're gonna pay like 2500 for like a two by two rack. Now you pay a fraction of that price for, you know, three by three or two by three steel with Westside hole spacing and J cups like that UHMW laminated into the J cup. Like it's awesome. It's so awesome. Like they do so many things.

So awesome. Look at this scout hyper. That looks scary that like it can fall over. Look at this scout hyper. That looks scary. That like it can fall over. Just a little fold up. Yeah. They've had that for a bunch of years. Look at it's got 275 reviews.

Five star. Oh, I don't doubt that. It's awesome. Like if it's up on their website, I mean, it's really good. The things that's cheap for a reverse hype. Oh yeah. A hundred percent. Totally attainable.

Like that, that is a fair and reasonable price to pay for. I mean, anything, I mean, just that much steel, like there's times where, especially the price of steel now where like, because we've got welders and you know,

I'll draw everything up on 3d and the computer before we build it. That there's times where we price stuff out and we can't buy the steel for the price that rogue is selling it for oh wow wow yeah stuff like dumbbell racks people underestimate like just how much materials go in there and then by the time you get good casters and all that sort of stuff yeah dude this thing weighs a hundred pounds it looks like it next to louis it looks like it weighs 300 pounds yeah uh that guy is what a it was just a legend look at that hey what happened to him how did he die did he have a heart attack or a stroke or does anyone know what was the deal with yeah the west siders would know i mean i don't think it's for

me to say but um i mean he was in the gym training that morning as far as i like from what i was told uh that he was in training that morning. I think checked himself into the hospital later that day. Had some discrepancies with those guys. And I think told him to go fuck themselves, went home, and then passed it home that afternoon. Damn. I mean, from my understanding, that's what he was hoping would be the end is training right to his very last day.

How old was he coaching? I think 74, 76. I want to say. Yeah, I think so. Not, not old, but not young. Yeah. I mean, like he's been through the paces, like that guy, man, his strength and capacity is, is insane. Like when you read a book of methods and stuff like that, like when you, you got to stop and think about some of the details in the book with like what you're reading and what you're

seeing where you're like, I don't like as a finisher, you just grab a set of like 50 pound dumbbells and you just do like five minutes of reps, know and you're like huh you're like okay no nobody can do that right just five minutes of unbroken reps and like louis like so um do you know jesse ward yeah yeah great guy that's up in washington too right yeah yeah does he still have a gym 100 yeah yeah he turned into a lion did he grow out his hair and turned into he's got it yeah he's got a big mane yeah he's he's as handsome as ever yeah um so him and i actually head out to west side um for a week uh years ago now um but we were there and we did sort of um they had they were set up battling chains so they had half inch chain like you know two 20 foot lengths of it that they had out in the yard. Like battle ropes, but battle chains.

But with half inch chain. Yeah. So we were on the yard doing that. This sounds dangerous. Oh man. Like we did five, we both did five minutes of it. And it was crushing to keep going without breaking up for five minutes. And we came in and they're like, they're like, bro, you know that, you know, like Lou, you'll go out there. He'll go like 45 minutes or an hour by himself just out there you know and this is in his late 60s you know and so he just he had just tremendous strength he he was still putting in so much effort and um yeah just tip of the spear on so many levels i wonder if i've never seen

someone do battle chain it's the same thing as battle ropes right yeah just half inch chain you're probably not probably not going to find it out there it's probably just west side oh here we go here we go got it yeah yeah and it probably is it probably is uh it probably is west side. Oh, shit. This is crazy. Yeah, this is nuts. It's funny. I've never seen this. Look, that's the second I've never seen a frog deadlift. These ones are hooked up

to a bag. Can you see that? Yeah, totally. So we just had one end in each hand. Yeah. Yeah, it was spicy for sure. mean not common haven't done it since but it just was the like just the idea that i mean his strength endurance and capacity was huge huge huge dude look at those bikes right there those are those bikes where you where you turn a stopper down onto the wheel to slow the wheat to make them see that those things two on the end are crazy dude like do you remember before like assault bike where they're just like everyone was like spending like people were spending three

four hundred dollars buying like a 1980s freaking like airdyne that they kind of like half rewelded back together you're like yeah at least those were bikes those things in the corner like things like you'd see in people's houses in the late 70s yeah no one you could those were unrideable you know what i mean it's just something pushed against the wheel yeah those were those were nasty fanduel casinos exclusive live dealer studio has your chance at the number one feeling, winning. Which beats even the 27th best feeling, saying I do. Who wants this last parachute?

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responsibly. Daisy Ridley. I go to England or die trying. Trudy, you don't have to do this. Don't let anyone take me out of the water, no matter what. Disney's Young Woman and the Sea. Streaming on Disney Plus this Friday. I want to go back to uh justin so so you work with justin and um and you from from day one has it been um smooth sailing it sounds like you were you you

went in with cold feet uh or very uh hesitant may might not be the word but hesitant and then and then it was like oh this is gonna work and it's been like yeah it's been a pleasure ever since yeah really i mean honestly yeah it has yeah it uh yeah right for that you weren't like hey this is taking too much of my time no no no that's the pro athletes are like i mean one of the reasons that i stopped working for crossfit was um i really care about like our community in our gym and it started to get to the point where working for the crossfit games was just pulling me away for too long too often and it stopped having a positive effect like it has to have a positive effect on our community and our people um and uh and that sort of became no longer the case

um kind of after that 2015 where i was just like i'm just away a lot and then i'm unreachable because like once you switch gears to work you know regionals at the time or the games like i would just have my phone like off like it just wasn't wasn't available for anything but the games and um and then um that piece with justin and having that opportunity to work with um some professional athletes i feel like for me has been really high value because um you still want those data points even though they're outliers they're still valuable because it's like, you know, it puts the coach in a spot where you have to be paying attention. Like, it's easy to have someone come in.

Who's like, I've never lifted weights before. Like, what's your bench press? 45 pounds. Um, and you know, a year later there, you know, 180 pounds. Like, yeah, I mean, sure. Like, like there's some thought along the process but it's it's pretty pretty straightforward but you have someone come in especially crossfitters have that like uh male athletes tend to have a like a spot between 275 and 300 that is unpassable for many um you know some

american athletes are different with like having grown up with a football background so some of them like i used to bench 405 and now i bench 315 or 325 still um and they they can ride off like previous performance but um but a lot of people if you haven't if crossfit was your first exposure to barbell that 275 to 300 can be a real sticking spot for for athletes athletes. And, um, you know, being able to start working with Justin is kind of being put on the spot for being like, does your programming work? Yeah. Yeah. You know, because you, you do want that opportunity to prove, um, your systems validity. Um, and then also to continue to adapt. I mean, I have learned a huge amount from working with like, you know, Justin and Ellie and Adam and that whole team.

I mean, the whole team, I mean, Daniel and Dallas, like the whole crew, it's just such a, you know, special group of people and such a high quality group of people that it's like, I've learned a huge amount in the past couple of years. And we've worked through all kinds of stuff. And sometimes we do stuff and you're like, yeah, it didn't work that good. And you're just like that, here's what we're

going to do next. Or based off what we're seeing now, this is how we adapt. So we kind of train like event to event. So what we do between quarters and semis is different from what we do between semis and the games and then we take time off in august and as we come back from the games what we do uh from you know september october to rogue is uh different than we do the rest of the year you know and it's and some of it is largely based off of um what we saw at the last event you know and then what we sort of are like okay based off what we saw based off of what we saw at the last event. And then what we sort of are like, okay, based off what we saw, based off how it went, then here's the next layer of things.

And sort of in this system, it's not something where you say, okay, here's my number, times it by this, divide it by that, and then add this, and then go up five pounds every week. It's much more sort of, um, it's, you have to be paying attention and you have to be talking with the athlete, talking to other coaches, um, watching to see what the chain, what the effect that, uh, the, you know, what you're doing is having on the athlete. Is it the desired effect?

Um, what's changing? What are they, athlete. Is it the desired effect? Um, what's changing? What are they, how are they speaking about things differently? Um, you know, it's, it's, it's a lot more time consuming, but at the same time, it feels like the end result is something that's like also very special and has a, um, just has, has an effect where like, well well this system will continue to work i mean we'll keep moving the pieces and we'll keep making changes and adaptions and there'll be new things and new equipment and um but how we do what we do um so far so good you know uh your fellow canadian uh says hi peter shaw oh there we go yeah awesome hello peter

i i like the way you you um i like i like the way you said that because maybe in the future i'll ask the question like that i think it's better the question i was asking you earlier was do you feel are you nervous like tinkering with michael jordan's dunk you know yeah and but maybe the question better should be are you nervous, like tinkering with Michael Jordan's dunk? Totally. Yeah, absolutely. But maybe the question better should be, are you excited? And I kind of don't like asking that question, but I prefer, maybe, I like the way you said it. You are excited to put your coaching to the test and you take it seriously. But you are excited and stimulated and up for the challenge to put your coaching to the test and you take, and you take it seriously, but you're, but you are excited and stimulated and up for the challenge to, to, to put your coaching to the test. Yeah. There's,

there's pieces where, I mean, there's like ups and downs in there for sure. Right. Because there's times when you're just like, you watch stuff, you're like, fuck. Yeah. And you've had amazing gains. I mean, the first 16 weeks we put 25 pounds on his bench, which like, Oh, like, you know, some people would be like, Oh, like no big deal. Like beginner gains. You're like, well, it's not beginner gains. No, it's not beginner gains. Yeah. And, uh, and it was right through a sticking spot that, that most people don't get through. And now the work we have to do to maintain that bench is actually pretty low. Um, so it allows us to work on other things. And you know, you might argue like, well, the bench press doesn't come up very often.

And what's the value in that? You're like, well, I mean, horizontal pressing doesn't come up in competition very often, but the value of horizontal pressing and time spent building upper body strength and capacity, I mean, is high value for making positive changes to other movement patterns. I mean, when CrossFit says, you know, what are the 10 components of fitness? And if you say my, you know, stamina and cardiovascular endurance are like nine out of tens and my strength, power, speed are like five out of tens. I mean, which one are you going to focus on? And then what affected those things that you're weak

at have on the other components? I mean, the idea that we've always spoken about has been like, you bring up those low end, those weaknesses of those 10 components of fitness, and they have a positive effect on those ones that are already strengths, because you can't expect to make, continue to make positive changes to those pieces that are already strengths by continuing to do them. You know, the marathon runner who continues to get a better time and continues to increase training volume until they can't. You know, now you're a, you know, it's a 259 marathon runner. You're training 20 plus hours a week. You still have a 40 hour a week regular job.

You have two kids at home. I mean, what's your next move? 22 hours a week, 23 hours a week. And then what's your exposure to injury? You know, if you keep doing the same thing, you know, if you've got a clean or a snatch and you're like, oh, it's weak. So I'm training all the time. I mean, what's the next thing that happens? There's also a couple of different things going on, right? There's people coming in there who want to lift heavy objects for the sake of lifting heavy objects. And then there's people who, like the fighter, who it's all, I guess, accessory work or complementary work.

Still maxes though. Okay, still maxes. And then there's people like Justin who is kind of like a hybrid. still still maxes and then there's people like justin who it's kind of like a hybrid like everything has to be accessory work and complementing other movements while also still he may have to perform maxes no not will have may have to will have to perform maxes yeah and then you've got stuff like you know jamie who also has a weight class component right right you can't stack weight on because she walks around at like 152 these days but we'll fight at 125 she's one fish wow man she is wow yeah yeah i mean that's what you're seeing that video really

is heavy end of her yeah her nearing the end of her her training cycle or wake up okay yeah so she's getting close to fight weight in that video. Like that fight was actually 135. So she's not quite as, she wasn't cutting all the way down. But I mean, it's crazy. I mean, some of the pieces with, some of the pieces with like that weight cut and the cut near the end is,

I mean, it's something to see. I don't have any part of that. So like, I was just so stoked to be along for the ride like her striking coach jay was down there um from canada as well and he's crazy volume of experience like uh super confident just being able to watch him do his work and get her weight cut i mean it's crazy she was losing two pounds an hour in one of those like have you seen those bags? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've only seen them all embedded on the UFC shows. Like each hotel room in Dubai has one, and they climb in there.

And then it shows the athletes go in the bathtub and get in hot water. I'm just like, fuck. Oh, yeah. And she – I mean, Jamie takes it like a champ. She goes through that. I mean, I skip a meal. I get real miserable and sad i mean she's cutting tremendous amount of weight and then that cut and she's still like

like friendly approachable good person you know like you know you cut that weight on a lot of people they're monsters uh justin madaris jesse you are it. I'm so proud of you. Much love. Nice words. It was nice. Nice words from the champ. How about incorporating a second athlete? If it wouldn't have been someone who was working with Justin, would you have taken on another athlete, you think?

Because you also now train Ellie Turner, correct? Yeah, we australia uh two weeks ago for the torian pro and i went down you went down there for that yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah because we had to kind of split the team right so we had um so wow so you're on the team this isn't just you're not you're more than just the weightlifting coach uh yeah i feel like yeah that's true okay maybe maybe it's not but i feel no i mean fuck if you went to to Australia, you get an automatic you're in. And maybe everyone is. I'm just feeling around trying to understand the familial nature of it or what it means to be on the team.

You went down there. It's a pretty tight group. Yeah, so for semifinals, Justin's semi was the same as Ellie's. So Adam, Dallas, and Daniel went to the West region, or West semi, with Justin, Trista, the teen, and then Mac as well from Adam's gym. So he had the three athletes there. And then Ellie had to go back. I mean, she tried to get sort of the opportunity

to not have to travel back because it's a big time away from the team and coaches and her gym and everything else. But she did end up having to travel back. So she was in Australia for the month of May and then competed at Torian at the end of that month. So I flew down the week of for the event of that month so i flew down um the week up for the event so i got there like tuesday uh before the event and we both flew out the uh following

tuesday yeah and you got to work uh closely with her because there was a time right wasn't she was kind of like stuck in like purgatory and so yeah she was yeah she was stuck here with us yeah yeah canada the prison and and and so she and so squamish at that point that was kind of her home gym right that's where she yeah she was she was here for um she arrived at the end of august in canada and then i think she got sort of like the thumbs up from america in like middle of october and then she was she was able to uh to get her visa and then head to the states yeah so she was with us for that like six weeks period so so what what about that was that was was that a no-brainer to take on someone else who is also part of Adam's team. Yeah. I'll, I'll work like I'll work with Adam on anything. I think. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That relationship has grown tremendously in the last couple of years.

Yeah. So, so yeah, to, to be fair. So like the, the two of us are working with Justin, Ellie and Trista for CrossFit. And then Adam and I are working together also on Jamie, the UFC fighter stuff as well. Because, and I, for the exact same reason he asked me, is that a couple of fight camps ago, I was just like, why the fuck am I doing her conditioning?

Like, Adam is better at this than I am. Like, hand it off. Like, just do, let me do what I'm best at and then hand off what I'm best at and then hand off hand off what I'm not and uh so he took over doing her um conditioning work I think we've done it like three camps now and then we've carried on now this is the first time we've carried on with it between camps so she had her fight in April and we've carried it through now and she's looking towards a fight sometime uh hopefully September hopefully September, October, but there's

nothing, nothing official yet. Um, she's got a four fight contract with the UFC. Um, so yeah, so we've started working with her as well. Um, but I mean, yeah, it's hard. Like, like it's, it's really, I mean, it's really humbling to have athletes reach out and be like, can you help me? And, um, so on and so forth. And it's just, there's, it's such a, like one, it's a, it's a big commitment, um, to

on your part or on their part, both, both, both. And, um, two, it's also one where like i mean in the crossfit realm like i'm on the team that i'm on you know like i've got full effort and everything poured into to this team right now um and mostly i'll do like i mean i've done some console stuff which has actually been pretty fun so i'll do like if Hey, if you want like some direction or advice on like where you're at or like what, what's going, you know, what might be good options. And like, for sure. That's, I mean, that's a easy one. Like it's a low commitment. I can spend an hour if I just schedule it in, but to take on like full programming of the else. Cause you're like,

I just, I remember Shane, so Shane sweat who, um, you know, he's been a huge mentor for me for years and years. Is that the guy who's generally looked at with the girl deadlifting? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Shane has built champion after champion. Like he, he works with incredible athletes and, um, has helped me for, you know, I mean more than a decade. Um, a decade. And I remember getting advice from you years ago, where he's like, you have to be very thoughtful about who you choose to work with, and you have to be successful. Because otherwise, it's your fault, and you're gone.

And, you know, whether that's true or not, that's always kind of been one of those pieces where I've kind of reshaped that to I can only take on what I can fully apply myself to and give everything I have. So pieces where I don't have any hobbies. I don't have other things I do outside of this. Do you have kids? No. No. This is it. This is everything I do. And it's been like that for

like, you know, going almost 14 years now. Um, so like, that's what I think about at the end of the day. It's what I'm talking about. 10 PM, 11 PM at night, you're, you know, texting with, or messaging with practitioners or athletes, or, you know, it's like, it's full application. So when people reach out, I think sometimes they're like, it'd be great. You could show me some things and, and give me a program and good to go. But the reality is you're like, that's, it's just not how, how I work. And it's not, I think, um, how I would be like successful with an athlete, which is like, that's the most important, like, you know, I don't want to, I don't want to like sell someone. I'm like, Oh, I can do anything. And you're like, that's not always true. I mean, there's also athletes who are like, it's just not a good fit. So I'm,

I'm super thankful and very fortunate for all the people, um, that I do get to work with and, you know, feel guilty about not being able to help more, but that's just kind of where, where things are at these days. You know, there is a consistent theme with you since the beginning of the interview uh where also you're not interested in um you don't sell ikea furniture you're not like hey here's the box here's the instructions go put that shit together like you're gonna have the people come in you're gonna cut the wood with them you're gonna saw it you're gonna sand it you're gonna screw it together people come in. You're going to cut the wood with them. You're going to saw it. You're going to sand it. You're going to screw it together.

I mean, you want to be there. You're not – yeah, for some reason, you want to be extremely hands-on with your craft. Coaching. Programming, coaching. You have a really holistic view of it. You haven't, you haven't parsoned it out. Um, maybe in your own mind, but you're not for what you want to do with athletes. It's, uh, it's, it's pretty holistic.

Yeah, I think for sure. Like, so before, before this, i was part of like a definitely let me ask you one question before you say it but for another data point did when when when when you asked justin to do a pr does he do them all in-house or does he do some on his own oh i don't want to miss a pr okay yep see it's consistent it's like that yeah you're not you're not fucking around okay go on no because you're looking because inside of that max you're also looking for a breakdown yeah right you want to see the lift because you want to see like like okay great like even if he makes it you're like what can you learn because the the there's the physical adaptions but also there's the pieces of like oh like he made that but you can sort of see just a little bit like there's this little

like hitch midway or you know he flares a like elbow out elbow in this happens he rounds up her back whatever like it doesn't whatever the thing is like that's what you're looking for to be like okay like better than last time so we're doing the right things but to move forward and you know get him to you know the next weight or the next piece because there's also a spot where it's heavy enough for his sport, right? Like there's a, there's a spot where you get to where like, that's enough now and we don't need more. And so then we're like, what else can we do? Because I mean, some of the things that I get up to with those guys, like, you know, like it's,

it extends past just like how physically strong they are and able to display on a single rep, right? Because strength is also that capacity. I mean, think of like why CrossFit adds strength in, right? It's that well-rounded capacity to not be injured, right? And as an athlete in any sport, I mean, there's also a spot of just like staying alive, like not ending up with the injury that's the end staying alive, like not ending up with the injury. That's the end of your career, not ending up with stuff.

That's like big setbacks. It costs you huge training time. Like those sorts of things that have a negative effect can sometimes just be unable to maintain good health, you know, and not just like as a, um, as a, uh, like not health, but like even like, you know, joint integrity range of motion, but like even like, you know, joint integrity range of motion, everything else, like, you know, working with specialty bars and a ton of variants, you know, imagine you're in a squat, either volume or max, and you end up out of a good position. What's your answer for that then? Is it like optimally that athlete has trained a bunch of

specialty bars. So if you end up, you know, you come out of the hole on your back squat, your upper back rounds and you get pushed forward a bit. And optimally what goes on in the athlete's mind is, ugh, this sucks and it's not great, but I'm strong here too. Because I've spent all that time on that S like that safety squat bar. You know, I know what this feels like to have that like upper back like it's not just it's perfect or it's not because the more you spend with just a straight bar i mean it it opens a door for being a specialist where you're great as long as it's this and then eventually you're too tired the reps are too many the weight's too

high and it ends up not being that you know know, optimally, you've got that capacity to still manage yourself. Going back, the fact that you want to watch him do his PRs, watch your athletes do their PRs is just more another data point of just how you operate. I don't know. I don't know how to describe it, but it's, it's incredibly, uh, it's consistent. You're, you're consistent with your, um, dedication is not the right word, but it's obviously dedication. But yeah, kudos to you for being, yeah, you, you're a, I don't got a master chef. I don't know what, I don't know how to explain it, but my cooking is medium to poor. You poor you're you're the guy who makes the stuffed animal but even though no one sees the stuffing inside you're concerned with what how that's placed in and the pressure and yeah there's attention to the the whole thing that you're you're invested in it doesn't always need to be the front facing pieces the um yeah i was i mean that was a big motivator for me um when i left wildland fire

was i knew my time there was kind of like at a wrap because i mean it was a it's a super time where time with fire what's fire wildland fire so i worked as like a wildland firefighter for um for 12 years and um and i knew my time there was at a wrap as it just was like, I just didn't, I didn't feel like I was having a, like a large enough effect on the greater good. And so that became like, you know, I started doing CrossFit. Yeah. Yeah. I said that was my last live rappel that I ever did. Um, it was pretty cool. Actually that's at the winter Olympics. So that was at the winter Olympics in February. It was, it's crazy that actually that's at the winter olympics so that was at the winter olympics in february it was it's crazy that that even happened um but was uh why why because of the weather oh

the yeah the weather because we can only repel in like certain uh like environment conditions etc this is like february in canada uh and it actually came together and yeah my last live repel from the helicopter was onto a barge floating coal Harbor in Vancouver. Yeah. Oh, wow. Wow. Wow. Yeah.

Yeah. It's pretty fun. Yeah. And so, and so your, your, your career as a, as a wildland firefighter ended when what happened, you were going to say, yeah, I just, I realized that I just wasn't having like, I wasn't having an effect on like the greater good. Like I wanted to, you weren't putting out enough fires there weren't enough fires well i mean you start to realize like you're putting out fires that are like for the most part i mean there was a bunch of times where

we saved houses but that's that's pretty rare and um mostly you're putting out small fires in the middle of nowhere they're low con though consequence. Or you're putting out fires so that those trees can be cut down later. The pieces became like, I just wanted to have more effect. I actually looked at getting like police as well. I considered going that direction, but knew that I was like also vulnerable to my like environments

where like I felt like working in that role would be my best, best setup. And then also wanted the capacity to lead, um, and then sort of do things the way that, that I want to do them. And so the gym became that piece. So as I, yeah, my dedication and drive to help athletes at any level, um, was, I mean, kind of discovered through that process of wildland fire and the training new recruits at wildland fire. And, and just that piece of like the effect you can have on someone else's longevity someone else. I mean, this is why we all, I hope all, I think maybe all started CrossFit was just like, man, this is so awesome. And you

want to kind of help and support as many people as you can down that path, you know? And then as time went on, I mean, getting the chance to work with pro athletes, I mean, pro athlete is, is such a special thing because you're like, there's so many pieces required for that person to get to where they get to. And not even to like, you know, Justin at the top of the food chain is i mean the the the most incredible but even just being able to i mean jamie getting the ufc like you know ellie being across a games athlete like trista 17 years old

that girl trains before and after school every day on her own volition it's amazing no one's pushing to be there she loves it and having a. I mean, that piece where they can do that with the dedication, the drive and maintain that through years. And like, you know, other people are going to school and, you know, furthering their education, setting themselves up better. And these people are like, they're bearing down on a dream. And so the opportunity to help somebody see their dream to fruition, I mean, is so fun. Bearing down on a dream. Yeah, crazy. Linda, getting to something superficial here. Linda, when you saw that, were you like, oh, I can't wait to see my guys do Linda? Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah.

I mean, didn't go the way you hoped. It's like Hinshaw seeing a running event mean didn't like hinshaw seeing a running event you it's like oh man yeah yeah i mean with like you know um you know boz i've known for a long time and um i'm so stoked with like ways up to these days i mean that that's sandbag event last year at the games that's arguably like i mean that's arguably one of the best saturday nights the crossfit games ever i agree like the execution of it the presentation of it the way everything about everything yeah oh man and then the in the warm-up area like athletes were like holy frick and they were like failing attempts at a way lighter weight and then everyone went out there and just tore the fucking doors off like it like amazing like i think of like that sandbag event in with like you remember like when

amanda came up on friday night like in la where it's like like you're just like you're watching you knew in the moment that you're watching like something so special right and it's like so that's her stuff is like is so exciting and that i that, I mean that, uh, the capital event. Yeah. I mean, being able to even mimic that in your own gym and give it a try, you're just sort of like, this is ridiculous. This event is crazy. Like it's a pieces that are like where CrossFit is at now and what those games athletes.

I mean, if you're last in the games, you are a savage, savage. Yep. You know, like you are a savage. Savage, yep. You know? Like, it's a – and if you – like, there are people who aren't getting to go to Madison who are incredible athletes. Right. And so being able to watch and to see that capacity displayed, I mean, so awesome. I always just think of Adam Klink whenever I –, like pre CrossFit, he's got like the shit he did that, that mild, you know who that is?

Adam Clink. No, I don't know that name. He did the sub five minute mile, 500 pound back squat, like just like just out there on the track. And it was just like, are you fucking kidding me? Totally. Yeah. It's like, it's incredible.

Like the fact that you're getting CrossFters now that are pushing on other people in their specialized sport should draw more attention than it than it does right you know like the fact that you're like having these i mean that there's a true human capacity thing going on here that kind of transcends crossfit transcends the absolutely transcends it's like yeah it's i don't want to put it up there with like what what honnold did like climbing fucking yosemite with no ropes i mean that like that's one in eight billion that's also batshit crazy but but it is you're right we're seeing the crossfit really is its own special it deserves deserves not the right word but we're lucky that we're interested in it yeah oh man

across like the community knowing that there's this many people out there in the world who i mean working with crossfitters is the is fucking awesome i mean it's like if you're working with them like oh man like people take for granted i I think maybe, maybe this isn't true. How, um, motivated a CrossFitter is to learn that if they want to seek information out, they seek that information out. They read books. They, um, they, uh, go get coaching. They book private sessions. They put in the time on their own. Like they, they adapt and figure out the skills that they want. put in the time on their own. Like they, they adapt and figure out the skills that they want. Like it was interesting. Shane sweat and I were talking about it, uh, not long ago. And, uh, he was saying, he's like, Oh man, the first time CrossFitter showed up at West side. I mean,

we give out all the reading material. Hey, read this, blah, blah, blah. He's like, yeah, all these lifters show up and they're like, do you guys read it? You're like, of course not. And he's like, okay, how many people were able to get through? Like some of the books, every one of the group had got through all the material and they're like, Oh, like, okay, how many people were able to get through like some of the books? Every one of the group had got through all the material. And we're like, oh, okay. And just like engaging like tons of smart questions. Like the CrossFit baseline capacity that's like, although shouldn't be. I remember going to a gymnastics shirt for the, uh, in 2008 or eight, maybe filming. Um, and it was the first time this gymnastics coach had ever worked

with crossfitters adrian was there yeah you're taking the course and there were like 15 crossfits there and i remember the gymnastics coach being like holy shit yeah like we've gone through all the material that i've had planned for three days and two hours like because it's just everyone's capacity yeah yeah who was the coach uh was it uh jeff tucker nope uh feral okay uh he was a guy ended up having a lawsuit with uh someone ended up suing him because someone got injured at one of his events it was completely ridiculous like someone tried to run up a wall and do a flip like they did like fred astaire style yeah yeah what happened to that guy he was really smart i can't remember his name if i said his name you probably remember it was he was yeah he was pre pre tucker gymnastics guy right oh man yeah yeah nyc was there yeah adrian bosman

was there yeah i got in trouble um i was i was filming the event and i got in trouble at the event because i brought a 40 pound med d ball that i gotten from d ball yeah and uh and i during the lunch break i did a little impromptu workout stair runs and d ball slams with the 40 pound d ball which was insane back then no one had a 40 pound d ball yeah and uh oh man i got in trouble for for doing that yeah when uh it was a good time. When I went to regionals for Ken West in 09 as an athlete, and one of the events was clean and jerk. And I had a decent placing with a, I think I hit 205.

And that was decent. And two of the guys hit 240. And people were like minds blown like the other athletes like can you imagine the strength 240 pound clean and jerk incredible incredible you know and now you're just like man like it's it's amazing it's so amazing to see how it's growing like the sport is is so exciting and awesome. I mean, the CrossFit athlete is just the, the example for all sports of like that athlete that puts like they're into their nutrition. They're, they're taking their mobility and self care crazy seriously. Like they invest in all of their efforts across that broad spectrum, not just in their, uh, selection of moving patterns or time domains or those sort of pieces, but also just in everything they do. Like, I mean, man, like,

oh, I mean, we've been across the gym for 14 years this October. I'm as motivated now as I, as I was then. Yeah. I, I, I sense it it from you and and it sounds like good things keep happening to you that you've earned what about kids you have any kids classes yeah yeah we have like 60 plus 18 and unders oh yeah no shit yeah our kids stuff's like yeah I was expecting you to say no you know we have oh I love working with the kid stuff it's it's so fun I mean the littlest kids are hilarious right it's we so our youngest stuff, we actually focus a lot on like, you know, base move patterns, but a lot of strongman stuff.

So we took everything we had for adults and then made tiny versions of it. So we have like a tiny prowler, tiny like iron mine sandbags. Remember those blue iron mine sandbags that used to be the standard before Rogue? So it was like, so we made tiny versions of those for the kids we have tiny atlas stones they're like 20 pounds uh they're actually cement still but like yeah miniature the uh oh no we like we have i made logs for the kids that we made about it like you know those like uh cardboard sauna tubes that you pour like uh cement posts with. Yes, yes, yes. So I, I took those, modified them. And it was like, we got a three pound, like a kid's log that I put like black

gorilla tape over. So it looks like a black rogue log. And it's funny though, because the kids, the one thing you don't realize when you're building those is there are little arms barely clear their heads. Yes. So you have to be careful that you like don't make it so the handles are too deep or they they actually can't lock out with the bar over their head the um it's interesting uh i value things that like rich ronin has shared where he says hey kids should should be doing sports and like outside playing yeah um but also there's a huge value to uh getting them into crossfit i i always trick them into doing it um you know like you may have a time constraint so you go out there you want it for five minutes and you get to your workout right and you want to be done in 30 minutes because you got to help ellie with her bench press uh but but with with the kids, it's like, I tricked them. Like,

Hey, you're going to throw a tennis ball with your right hand and left hand 20 times. And then after 30 minutes, they're taking a 20 pound med ball and doing that strong man thing. Like you said, where they, you know, throw it over their head. Yeah. But if you just go out there and tell them, Hey, we're going to start with that 20 pound medicine ball one, it's dangerous. And two, it's work to them. Yeah yeah but you've started with a tennis ball and then a two pound d ball and then a three pound d ball and you work your way up and they're great they're game and i've been doing that for years now and now my kids ask for it yeah and so i agree with what rich says but i also think you can get them into crossfit early

oh yeah yeah absolutely yeah for sure yeah i guess just yeah getting those baseline patterns i mean we've yeah i mean you know um games games yeah games it's fun games games and challenges so like yeah challenges right like the the challenge of um pushing pulling things is always high value like you know putting a bunch of plates on a sled and you're like okay let's see like you know having a rope and have all of them work together like some of that opportunity to work as a team or as a couple of teams or in pairs, like we try to combo between like individual work and group work. And that's just have to keep it like one interesting, but to also learning how to coordinate, like if you left them to themselves, they can't pull the sled, but be like, can you try to put the breadcrumbs down where they can start to see, like, I can't move this by myself, but if me and my friends work together, we can move this.

And then having it start to be like being able to coordinate efforts where they can carry something in two or three people or, you know, even like, and it doesn't, it's not, the point isn't heavy. The point is like being able able to coordinate a plan. So moving a tire. The littlest kids aren't going to be able to move a tire other than roll it. But if two of them pick it up or three of them pick it up around its edge, then they can lift it together and they have to work together. They can see when one person doesn't help, then it doesn't work.

Yeah, I love that sort of stuff. Are all the parents and members at your gym that sort of stuff. The, um, Are all the parents and members at your gym, the parents of the kids? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Like we have, we have a lot of like, so our, our youngest is like four years old, but we, we might go back to three years old this, this fall. Um, and, uh, and our teens roll all the way through. So we have a huge volume of teens. I have quite a number of teens I work with individually as well with all kinds of different sports. I mean, we've got a ton of teens who are trying hard to get places. What did you think about this, this piece of equipment?

This is the – Yeah, I know. Why do you think that they chose i i i have no proof but i think that they chose to use this because it was easy to standardize across the world meaning meaning you could put 30 of these in a box and and uh put some tape on it and send it to africa the shipping it would be easy, yes. Right. Yeah, I don't- Or are you disappointed in how that kind of, in this played out? I was disappointed in how it played out.

I, as an event programmer, I guess- You've programmed events? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Strongman, CrossFit. Yeah, we've had events at our gym for the last 10 years. Okay.

Yeah, love event programming. One of the things that's always in my mind- And before you go on, let me preface, and you also love Adrian's programming. So this isn't to no one get all crazy. Yeah, no, no. He already said he loves where Adrian's taking things. A hundred percent. Yeah. And I would also always say that when people have complained i mean in

the past i mean dave's you know casters take a ton of criticism for his programming over the years right and what i've always said to that is like run your own event then and then you get to do all the things you want to do but it's when it it's, you know, when Dave's been in charge, when, you know, Adrian's been in charge, that's, it's theirs and they get to make those choices. And if you don't like them, one, you don't have to participate, participate. Two, you can have your own where you do whatever you want. So, you know, that's what I would maybe preface that with. But one thing that always crosses my mind for events is the standardization and the opportunity for equipment issues. And that,

and that unfortunately that, that sled, although probably completely fine for training opens a door for like just a bunch of issues that you wouldn't have if that was like a steel based sled or a steel body sled with a center pin. Cause even stuff to the fact that those plates could slide off the back of that. If that strap is loose, that the, you know, would you just not use a sled if there was no other option

would you just switch to something else no i would just use a steel slide i like that no but what if they what if that's not an option would you've just gotten rid of the the stimulus altogether oh yeah like if the the equipment couldn't be standardized yeah yeah definitely i mean that's why we don't really see that like overhead kettlebell swing show up in competition really okay right like i think it's just because it's it opens too many doors for like problems and judging or that sort of stuff right so i think i think that with like something like that like yeah it was kind of like like you hate to know that and it was it was also real expensive if you needed to make a change to it so if it folded if like the front corner folded under or it slid across like markings on the floor or change in texture from one lane to

next if it was a um uh event that had like a big deckle on the floor and you know that sort of stuff that like i mean it was sort of like it just opened the door for variance and it's you got to be so cautious of that sort of stuff especially the higher the level gets i mean the better the athletes the more you've got to be able to be like hey we're gonna have to split times by fractions of a second i mean there there are some pretty small options this is a beautiful sled yeah slice sled yeah uh i mean that little that there's if you scroll up a little bit there's that um yeah that that yeah that one there that rogue e-sled super light duty i think that center pin comes out where sorry did i met did i miss it already yeah oh yeah yeah yeah that thing's awesome right yeah that little e-sled right so it's like something like that would have been

more my preference but again like i could I could be missing something inside of what, like what the reason was like, maybe they're like, Hey, actually we tried it with a steel sled and it worked really badly on the rubber matting or, or it lifted the rubber mats. Like it gripped too, maybe it just gripped too hard. Right. And it, and it raise the rubber mats and uh in some situations and whereas the uh soft sled didn't uh that thing weighed 26 pounds and this carpet magic carpet weighs four pounds also so it's yeah it's for every six of these you mail although that other thing's pretty small man but uh yeah this is one where it's just like it just is one of those where it's it's tricky and sometimes you just I mean, I've had events a hundred percent where I've tested it, you know, a dozen times, watched a dozen different athletes go through it, feel super confident. You get to the event day and you're like, well, fuck, I just didn't see that coming or this changed or, you know, it, yeah, I don't know. Were you ever, were you ever weak

physically? Yeah. Were you ever? Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As a little kid. No, no, no recent the, um, no, I I've, um, no strength is not actually what I'm very good at, which I think is maybe why I've been able to be helpful to some people. Um, is just because the, um, no, there's like, I legit clearly remember a time, um, maybe 15 or 16 years ago where I was, I, buddy and I had, you know, we were working construction finished the day you were 25 years old. Yeah, somewhere in my mid-20s. So I, because I came from, I was running ultra distance, climbing all over the world, and then doing fires in the summer. And when I was doing wildland fire, I was part of a specialty group. So my body weight had to be under 170.

And I just cared infinitely more about endurance and, and running and, and that, that kind of sport, all my time was spent outside. Um, but I legit remember getting a spot for my buddy on a 95 pound one rep max bench press. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did you say 95?

Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. Wow. And now what's your bench? Like three 40. Wow.

Holy shit. Yeah. I mean, bench is still a struggle for me. Yeah. Wow. And now what's your bench? Like three 40. Wow. Holy shit. Yeah. I mean, bench is still a struggle for me. Yeah. A while ago there's actually, um, yeah. You know, I, there, a while ago I posted a video of me, um, when I went to worlds for powerlifting in 2019, I posted a video of my deadlift cause it was the first time I hit like six 30 in competition. Um, and, uh, I posted a video because I had a video from Jordan Glasser, who owns CrossFit Whistler and I, training at the rec center before he opened CrossFit Whistler. And I deadlifted one rep max doing a CrossFit total.

I hit a max at 315. And I'm just like shaking and wobbling my way to the top of the lift, right? You doubled your deadlift in how many, in 10 years? Yeah. About a little over 10 years. I think I doubled it. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, is there a weight where you can just see someone deadlifting and being like that guy's on roids? I get like, for me, I would have thought it's 600 pounds, but you're saying it's not 600.

No, I think, I think like I actually have had this conversation before. And I think like, I mean, there's better people than me to answer this. My experience with like anything that down that path is zero. Really? Really? There's not our clients on us with you too. Will clients tell you, Hey, you're out of the gym with us. If you, if you fail a test. No shit. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We have Olympiclympic like we have why is that why why i just we just it's just not this is not what we do fascinating okay i had no i had no idea we take

it super serious yeah um uh for ethical or moral reasons or more like hey it's just like hey we don't touch um well i want to keep it clean for the app because you want to work with clean yeah i want to take them so it's not like you're against them it's just like hey that's this isn't the gym for you this isn't what we do yeah okay okay because i mean one of the things is is it a totally different sport like like i heard serena williams say you can't compare men's tennis and women's tennis it's not even the same game or like a world-class 12 year old tennis player it's a totally different game than an 18 year old world year old tennis player it's a totally different game than an 18 year old world-class tennis player it's almost like not even the same sport yeah for

people who know the sport yeah the skills you need to win yeah if you're i mean yeah as like is juice lifting it's that significantly different than yeah it is okay okay okay those numbers are different like not only the numbers but just the the the as you say in canada the process like maybe you switch to three reps as opposed to five reps as opposed to recover your capacity to recover right so people are taking like people are taking whatever they're taking to speed their recovery so they can work hard again so it doesn't make i mean if're, whatever you're choosing to do, if you're doing that, I mean, it doesn't make you like lazy or weak. I mean, honestly, you're just recovering faster to go really hard again, but it's still breaking the rules.

And one thing that's actually super progressive of a power thing is in my opinion, is that you've got tested and non-tested federations so if you want to uh do all of the things take all of the stuff and see how far down the rabbit hole goes i mean you can go do that and you just go compete in a non-tested federation and like get nuts you know um which is i mean i it doesn't bother me at all that exists out there like that's that sport but if you are taking stuff curiosity at least we all like like it's a cure like i don't want anyone to hurt themselves but seeing someone lift a thousand pounds is great is i'm interested in it i'm not turning it off yeah i'll watch that yeah yeah 100 um but if you're taking stuff and then competing

in a tested federation, I mean, you're a cheater and a fucking coward. Right. Right. You know, because you're like, there is a place for you to go. Right. Right. So like that, that sort of, and for me personally, like, I mean, I've been a clean athlete my entire life for, you know, a whole bunch of reasons. One of those is that I need to know that, um, what the stimulus is. So I train our own programming. So the programming I put up for our gym, I do that.

And cause I want to know it's part of the, it's one of the elements that goes into what I programmed the next week and sort of making sure that all of our data points that are coming in are not affected by something like that is really important. So like when I look at Justin's numbers and we're turning things over, it's really awesome to be able to be like, okay, he did this, like one remaster, one thing, but then when you're like, what is he doing for his like um like hex press or um like where is his bent row at relative to our lifters and sort of he would fall into the mix with our like our sort of like best male power lifters for for where he's at you know he's kind of kind of

falling into that mix right because it's a clean gym and so that data points are really high value to me right so i can be like oh this is comparable so you're comparing you know apples to apples uh um trish uh i am a dirty athlete yeah we and we are everyone knows that about you uh no not trish is not on the juice juice trish means uh actually dirty like like dirty like like uh impure thoughts um so so going back to that question is there a way you can just see someone pull i think what do you think the most a clean athlete has pulled for a deadlift yeah for a deadlift well i mean you think there's been a 700 pound oh yeah yeah we've got guys here i mean mean, I'm fighting for that. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have, I have ambition of a 700 dead a hundred percent.

Do you have some weird body composition at that rate? Like your hamstrings are massive or your ass is weird or something. Pretty. Yeah. No, I've got a strong back, big hamstrings and I've got a good reach. So my bench is garbage, but my, my dead is, is a my deadlift is a good lift for me. Like it's always been right from the start. So it's always been a little better at. Of all the powerlifting moves, is the deadlift close or the drugged athletes and the non-drugged athletes closest at the deadlift?

Yeah, I think that's true. Yeah. So the presses and the bench press, those guys take some pretty big leaps. Well, I guess the other side too is you've got like physical gear too right like by the time you put on a bench shirt or a squat suit i mean the world record uh squat is like i think 12 47 i want to say but maybe i'm wrong um and that's with no testing that's just like get that of it. Go for it. Do all the things. The suit, I kind of don't – I don't respect it as a strength number. I respect it as a skill. I know it requires a skill.

It's old, man. But for some reason, I guess I don't respect it as a strength. I guess you're under the pressure still. Oh, man. It is – yeah. I mean those guys are gangsters. Like it's – Yeah, I see that.'s worthy of respect it's it's different it's like uh but it's like saying like uh front squad back squat like it's different lifts but i guess it's the difference between being a good

gun fighter and a street fighter i'm not saying that there's no value in being a good gun fighter i just they're they're different different skill sets yeah both i mean i love like watching i mean what it takes to get under a humongous barnes suit because like i mean i have a very low volume of experience on on any kind of like um like suits but we'll wear like our lifters will wear briefs and that video that came up the justin we were there in january i had to do a squat set in briefs. So it's like- What are briefs? Just like underwear that like help push you up? Steel plate undies?

Well, more than gaunch, yeah. It's like a short. So it's shorts that like kind of are like, they're short shorts and they come up like pretty high, but they basically cross the hips. So imagine like a- And they want to stay open. So when you put-

Yeah. Can you even do an air squat in them? Can you even do- No squat in them? No. No. Yeah. What are these things called? Yeah, briefs. Yeah, so if you look – you can look up like Inzer Predator Brief.

Do they have them? Do they sell them at Rogue? I don't think so, actually. Inzer Briefs. I just typed it in. Yeah, it's an experience. Crazy. How much weight do you need on them to make them go down

uh like i find i kind of squabble parallel like around three like 250 300 oh shit yeah slingshot briefs predator predator inzer predator brief yeah that's kind of the i mean my opinion is like the standard inzer predator briefs here they are kind of the i mean my opinion is like the standard ends are predator briefs here they are those ones right there yeah okay yeah oh shit wow yeah that's them wow they just where how do where do you put those do they just stand on their own they just stand yeah yeah yeah they'll walk away yeah you don't fold those up with the rest of your underwear no yeah they're so mine are like i've got like a, like a two ply, like crop, like box stitch across the, like the back of them and you put the belt on.

So they're high. So you can put the belt across, right? So the belt kind of acts as an anchor. Yeah. But like, so imagine squatting in a crazy tight pair of jeans would be Jesse. These come in 52 inches. I think, I don't think that's a waist size i think that's a numeration okay okay yeah i like it okay so sorry say that again so when you squat what what were you saying

it's like squatting in a crazy tight pair of jean shorts like you know like it's just like you get to the bottom man this feels great so imagine like how a knee sleeve is like if you've ever worn knee sleeves yeah imagine incredibly tight pair of like canvas knee sleeves, what that would look like. So like, so me, so I'm like, um, like a five 30 back squat. Um, I've squatted 600 in briefs to a box. Wow. Which I mean, I would probably say that I'm not a good box or brief squatter.

And I would be also say that I was conservative like at 600 i was like i'm good because you're like because when you're standing up you've got all the weight so it's still 600 pounds standing upright yeah yeah and you're very aware of the load and then as you squat to the bottom it just takes more and more of that weight but just like knee sleeve it just it means that everything else has to work extra hard so i mean a pair of it's got to be a head fuck too because oh man you know you're not strong enough to do it but but you're but you have to mentally do it well and if you think about like you know when you get to like um magnets of the same polarity yeah and you go to push them together you know how they want to go like every other way that's what happens when you put on gear

so you see like if you see a guy try to touch his chest with a bench shirt yeah and he's like lowering lowering lowering it's getting closer he's slowing down it's harder it takes forever to get there it's because that bar wants to go anywhere else except where you want it to go oh it's like it's doing it's doing that it's a bubble yeah yeah yeah so the place it would be happiest is on your belly or on your face right and the minute you get out of position it it all happens real quick. So, I mean, people who are competing in gear, I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's worthy of respect. They're under a tremendous amount of strain, pushing the edges of what the human body can stay. Cause like, just because it's being taken up by like knee wraps or sleeves, belt and briefs doesn't mean that everything else isn't having to do work. Right. That, that carrot, that athlete is still standing there with 1200 plus pounds on their back like it's incredible what um uh why why did you put justin in those just uh constantly varied uh as one piece but i actually find briefs a really great mover for upper back strength so it takes a ton off the hips but then your back needs to be stronger so like my deadlift moves like I've moved my deadlift the most over 600

squatting speed days and briefs. So not my max days, but like my speed work doing that in briefs. So I can load more weight on the barbell, use heavier bands. And I found that the carryover is not necessarily higher on the squat, but certainly on the dead. That's just been my experience with our athletes and then myself. I had this lady on Jen Thompson. Oh, yeah.

The powerlifting lady. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Jen's incredible. She does this thing. She talked about doing holds. Yeah, right. yeah are you advocate of those also the isometric hold yeah basically take more weight than you can squat off the bar hold more weight over take more weight off the bench than you can bench yeah i mean i would have

we use them yes do we use them regularly often no and the the the thing would be like is there a time and a place absolutely definitely i mean the more tools the toolbox the the the thing would be like is there a time and a place absolutely definitely i mean the more tools the toolbox the better the better right like if you see someone who's like constantly failing the the uh squat in the same position i mean you watch it as a coach you watch an athlete fail a squat um you know in the classic like min max like that half half position out of the hole so they turn around they get halfway up and and fail like min max like that half half position out of the hole so they turn around they get halfway up and and fail like okay you watch that one time fine you watch that repeatedly over time i mean that's your fault now so the more tools as a coach you can have in your

toolbox you'd be like hey why don't we try this or why don't we work a box squad or you know the knees i mean the knees caving in on a squad i I mean, this, this is fixable. This is not a, a geometry issue or an issue with like, um, you know, like this cannot be solved. You're like a hundred percent. This gets fixed. I mean, you, you've got weak hips, like where's your box squat at, you know, how, how often are you box squatting? Like, how are you, what are you doing for ranges of motion?

Like, you know, like a box is an amazing addition to squatting, you know? And it's not like, again, it's not like I expect to ever see a box squat come up in competition, but also if you have a back squat, that's whatever, 300 pounds and your box squat is 150. I mean, there's something to work on there. Is your gym still taking clients? Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're pretty, it's busy these days. It's pretty busy. But we have a ton of-

Congratulations on that. Awesome. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I mean- Are you having trouble finding coaches? Yeah, always. I mean, we've got an incredible crew of coaches, but Squamish is a spicy area for like, it's very expensive living here. Uh, the cost of living is very high. And,

and, uh, I mean the gym gym is always one of those jobs where it's like, it's more driven by passion than it is by like, look at all the money. Um, so that's, that's always like a balance, but I mean, we just had our first two coaches um hit their 10-year coaching mark this like this month and then our first coach alan she she was our first coach to be coaching with us for 10 years and then jade just just made 10 years this month um and you're an affiliate yeah oh yeah yeah yeah always and and why do you stay uh affiliated? Why keep the CrossFit name? Because I guess a couple of reasons. I guess one thing would be that I would never be where I am today without CrossFit.

And there's a brand loyalty payment. A tithing. Yeah, that is for sure. A moral or integrity piece. a hundred a tithing yeah that is that is for sure never crosses my mind okay every every year that comes and goes i never think about um about uh do we need to remain affiliate i mean do we need to remain affiliate to do what we do we probably not but that's not what that's not the reason the reason is just like i mean i never touched a barbell before CrossFit. I found CrossFit when there was, I don't know if there, how many gyms there were, maybe,

maybe one or two. Cause I was like a.com piece that my, my friend put me onto. He's like, Hey, you should check this out. There's Jim Jones. If you remember. Yeah. Mark. Yeah.

Yeah. So, so my first impression was like my buddy, my buddy sent me two websites cause I burned, like, I mean, I had a bunch of injuries from running. Um, my shoulder had been repaired. I had, I had a bunch of stuff going on that just wasn't, wasn't at work anymore. And I had a day in the gym where went in, did fucking nothing, like just read a magazine and one around visit with people and left. And I was like, you actually did no things at the gym. Wow. And, uh, called my buddy from the pay phone. And, uh, I was like, um, yeah, right. I mean, picture when we're talking here, right.

You threw in a couple of dimes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, as I, bro, I, I think I'm done. Like, I don't know where my athletics goes from here because I'm just like, I just don't have any drive to, I don't know what I'm doing. Like, what am I fucking doing? My ankle's fucked. I could barely like walk to the grocery store without pain. My shoulder was repaired.

My range was super limited. And he's like, dude, I just came across these two websites. Check them out. It was Jim Jones and CrossFit.com. And Jim Jones was the vibe and.com was the content so you read like that do you read the original jim jones like yeah like fuck you stay away from our yeah totally yeah yeah go fuck yourself like yeah you know you crossfit had a little bit of that too and they're sure and their contact it said uh please do not contact us yeah like we don't really give a fuck about yeah like those like those days i was like yeah that's what you're looking so

and you go to and you're like okay well i like this is me for sure i mean i'm in my early 20s you're like this that's that was my attitude for sure like stand outside maybe we'll let you in maybe we don't you're too long you know that fight club style right and right and um and then dot com was like but not for brands i wouldn't say i don't know about mark twight but not for brand's sake no but no but just kind of to weed out the morons like hey dude there's plenty of stuff on here to keep you busy you don't you don't need to be like i need some more attention over here like fuck you yeah no 100 100 yeah get 100 air squats without unbroken before you fucking text us you jackass it had nothing i kind of i

liked it yeah i mean yeah at the time like it was just like i mean that vibe was like right up my alley for sure and it was one of the reasons why why i gravitated to it and i was a pussy by the way i wasn't a tough guy at all but like i was like i kind of hated them for it yeah i was just like just your typical bay area pussy oh man but i also was intrigued by it like really what's behind door number two yeah absolutely i mean i came in with a with an ego for sure and looked at it a couple times like okay like i mean fuck do you care so i looked at it on my like uh computer it was like okay this worry i was like, okay. Like, I mean, fuck, do you care? So I looked at it on my like, uh, computer and I was like, okay, this worry, I was like December one. I don't know. I can't remember when maybe Oh five or Oh six or some of that. Wow. That's old school, right? Yeah. Yeah. I

looked on the computer and it was, uh, Cindy. So it was like right before Christmas, I was living in Victoria going to school. And, uh, and I was like, yeah, my buddy's got a doorframe pull-up bar upstairs. I was like, I'll go give this a try. Went up there, started a clock, five pull-ups, 10 pushups, 15 air squats. Uh, got through it, came back downstairs. Uh, my girlfriend at the time was like, how was that? I was like, that was fucking hard. Like I had to stop.

And she's like, yeah, the stop. Like, what are you talking about? Like 20 minutes. You had to stop. You're like, yeah, I just couldn't do more pull-ups. Yeah. It she's like, yeah, the stop. Like, what are you talking about? Like 20 minutes. You had to stop. You're like, yeah, I just couldn't do more pull-ups. Yeah. It's just like, what? And I have no idea.

I can't remember what my score was at all. But I mean, that for me was like, one, it was insulting and offensive. Right. And I was just like, these numbers are so little. Yeah. You're like, I will do that again tomorrow. And so I started three on one off that lasted like two cycles. And I was like, that's doesn't work.

Cause I'm not apparently good enough and couldn't do that. So then my buddies and I was like, I recruited a friends at school that I was, uh, you know, I was in college at the time, recruited a couple of guys from, uh, school. We're like, Hey, let's, let's, uh, let's try doing some of these workouts. We'll go Monday, Wednesday, Friday and do these CrossFit workouts. So I get up in the morning, open.com, look at the workout, scroll through to like, I think it had a section where it had movements. So it like, they had Sage Bergner doing clean and jerks and stuff like that. And so I'd watch the video and I'd draw a stick man on a piece of paper. Cause I'd never seen a clean and jerk. Yeah. And you'd

be like, Oh, kettlebell. You're like, okay okay that's some crazy russian thing so it's like i guess we could hold a dumbbell what is this on its end yeah totally snatch you're like yeah of course like yeah yeah all the jokes you know right and uh and we just started doing that and i did that all winter and we started being able to do like three times a week but we modified a ton and people would ask and like i'd have a jerk like runners like who i'd train with like ask at that point like i mean at one point i ran 125k uh like race right like i was i was running ultras and and uh i was fit but not not crossfit fit what's the least you ever weighed 155 as an adult yeah and what's the most you've ever weighed? 223. Okay.

And 155 is like, that's like lean and mean, ready to go fucking run. Like 125. Now that was, that was, that was not long before I, I,

I ran the debt that it was called the death race. It's up a Northern BC. How tall are you? 5'10". Oh, wow. So, so just to flash forward real quick, this was all education for where you are today.

It's like you have the – your life is clearly like, okay, everything I've done in my past has brought me today. Like you can say a hundred pieces. Oh, yeah, 100%. Yeah, yeah, everything. Yeah, structure and order. Lead at 155. Lead at two, whatever. Yeah, organization, all this sort of yeah data collection yeah every

everything's helped so so this you're you have a significant amount significant amount of loyalty to the opportunities crossfit inc brought you and is that would you say that's why you pay your affiliate fees that's kind of a big part i mean i, I don't I mean, that's the most common answer, by the way, I get. Yeah. Which is a tough answer pill to swallow if you're a businessman. Like they'll never accept that as an answer anywhere except for like the Catholic church. Right. Or like Greenpeace. Like, yeah, go get those Japanese whaling ships. Here's my 50 bucks. You know what I mean?

I want to save the whales. But like, it's really weird that you pay the money for that. I respect it and I get it and I agree with it. I mean, because I think of what gets under my skin. And one of the things over the years that's got under my skin is, I mean, even Westside. So my experience with Westside, so the, the strongest fucking gym on the planet, these guys are tough and they're rough motherfuckers, but also anytime I've ever asked for help or needed anything that, that Louie has always supported. It's insane.

I mean, you would call Westside Barbell and dial the phone up. And if he didn't answer and someone else answered, I remember leaving, I'd be like, hey, can I please speak to Lou? And they're like, oh, he's not in the office right now. Can I take a message? And I'll call him back.

And I'm like, oh, fuck, okay. So you leave your name and number. And 6 a.m. the next morning, you're like, this is Louis Simmons here. You called yesterday. And you're like, holy fuck. You're like, you know 6 a.m the next morning you're like this is uh larry simmons here uh you called yesterday and you're like holy fight like you know i'll probably be like yes sir yeah yeah try to try to find my my notes and be like yeah i just had a couple of questions um you know and that's and that piece was like west side was always credit where credit is due um and the same thing with shane i mean i i met sh met Shane at the, the CrossFit

like West side seminar. The first, first, I think we went to the first or second one they offered who Shane, Shane sweat. So I met, met him there and I was like, man, this guy is so much more eloquent with his explanation. And, and then it's cold called him. I mean, they put their numbers up on the board and we're like here's our numbers call us if you need anything so i was like fuck it so i called and i was like hey is there any chance i could come and train with you uh he's like yeah absolutely and so i went out to sweatshop that the week that big jesse and i were at um jesse ward and i went to westside and he's on the l1 team still, right? Jesse Ward? Yeah, 100%.

Yep. And the week that we did that, the Sunday before I showed up at like sweatshop Cincinnati, just on a Sunday morning and Shane met me there and spent the entire day with me one-on-one in the gym for no reason or money. And that's the culture that like my coaching was brought up in and so when someone reaches out they're like hey could you help me i mean i do everything i can to be like of course

because that because i wouldn't be where i am today like i wouldn't be making any money doing this if it wasn't for crossfit and west side you know do you think every sport needs a strength coach? Let me start. I feel like yes. Let me go back a second. I should have built this up a little bit. Pretend like you didn't answer that. Does every CrossFit Games athlete need

a Jesse Buffano? Maybe, but maybe not. It depends what they need. So, okay. That doesn't comport with what you, your first answer, your first answer is every professional athlete needs a strength coach. Yeah. I think every, I think strength depending on how it's utilized will benefit. I mean,

we have one of our guys. So for example, one of our athletes at the gym uh josh is running a 200 mile race next month my god and he just competed in our powerlifting meet in april and hit an all-time on his deadlift at 405 like three weeks ago how old is he good question i mean he's so youthful looking. I feel like, I feel like early, mid thirties, maybe.

Do you sleep on this 200 mile run or it's straight? I think he'll take like, he'll have naps. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. But it's, but it's,

he's like, he's run 1200 mile races. And so he is in the gym doing our like conjugate lifting, right. As a 200 mile runner. Crazy. Like for, we have mountain athletes. We have like, I mean, our pro athletes, we have everything from like kids trying to get to the NHL. Um, you know, Isn't that every kid in Canada? Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's, I mean, we've got a couple of our athletes are in Europe right now during like enduro mountain biking. So like Miranda just rode like,

I don't know, it was like, she did a 600 plus K ride down in California, like a month or two ago. And she's in the gym a couple of times a week lifting. So, I mean, it depends on how you use it. There's ways you can use it and have it not be helpful at all. And there's other ways where of course it's going to be helpful. It just depends that UFC fighter be putting on weight. Yeah. We can't be doing, yeah, we can't be stacking on a ton of meat. Like that's not going to work for her and it's not going to be effective and it's not going to keep her fast and powerful. Dang. I wonder going back to the CrossFit thing. I wonder how they – I wonder if they know that at HQ, that people are paying for loyalty and brand – like a brand loyalty.

And I wonder how they grow the company. Well, I think they're – That's something that's slow. Yeah, definitely. like a brand loyalty and i wonder how they grow the company well i think they're i think they're working a little that's something that's slow that yeah that's definitely it's enduring and you're and you're the uh you're the proof of that it's enduring as a motherfucker yeah yeah man it's like how do you tell your investors oh this is gonna be a tough board meeting uh people only pay us because they like us but it's i, I mean, that's not totally true. So I would say like, I mean, that's a part of it for me.

But the other part is like, I really believe in the games. Lacrosse games. 100%. Okay. Oh, okay. So that's a consistent theme too. You like this pushing. I'll let you answer it too, since it's your words.

But my understanding is you love this pushing the same way I do of human capacity. Let's see what this DNA, this fucking human being thing on planet earth can do yeah because we're like what what's crossfit doing for me then with the crossfit games like past getting the opportunity to have like you know justin ellie trista like that sort of thing what that's doing is how many people now show up at the gym. Like we just had two people start. They had their first CrossFit class yesterday and they are so excited to do CrossFit because they've watched all the documentaries. Right. And they just were like, and they're, they're normal people. They're just, they just love the documentaries. It looks like fun. Why would I not want to do that?

It's like every other sport, every other sport. sport i mean do people play hockey or basketball or football because it's just like the one of the only it's just fun like they watch their heroes on tv performing that and think that's awesome how awesome is that i would love to just do that and you don't have to have the like i think that the games is maybe taking criticism for being like it's only for like people who aspire to being those athletes but that's not true at all i mean people go play these sports and then watch them all weekend long because it's just they love the sport so i think well and also there's a difference in aspiring to be like them versus be them. Right. Yeah. Like I aspire to, I aspire to be like rich Froning when the first time, like,

as I got to see him, but I, I didn't, I didn't have any delusions of grandeur that I was going to the games, but I was like, Oh, I can, I'm going to do every, I can do everything he can do. I can play in the same, you know, sandbox. He'll build a bigger, maybe a bigger sandcastle, but I'll build some shit like his yeah i mean people like people don't sign up to run a marathon thinking they're gonna win the marathon right because like i would like to run i would like to run far right you know so

like crossfit is such a fantastic opportunity for that like you know the community built around having a crossfit competition in your gym or taking a group to a CrossFit competition, like that's invaluable. And whatever your training is, I feel like for development, no matter how good or poor you are at it, you have to be testing it. So if you're not applying some sort of testing metric to what you're up to, I mean, you're missing a learning opportunity because a coach can sometimes be like, Hey, you know, you're, you're missing a learning opportunity because a coach can sometimes be like, Hey, you know, you're, you're weak here. This is what we need to develop. Time goes on, time goes on. You go to event, can't do any handstand pushups, come back. Like, okay, I am now listening. You know, you learn that from going to the event.

And when you say testing, you know, it made me think of when I was 23 years old, I'd never been able to do a pull up my whole life. And when I was 23 or 25 or something, I did my first pull up. Yeah. And it was one of my friends who was a meth addict and steroid user. He was doing pull ups in the backyard on a tree branch. And we were both on ecstasy just hanging out. It was the middle of the day, two o'clock in the afternoon, college kid and he goes hey dude it's it's not really a pull-up and i go what do you mean and he grabbed his hands under my lats and squeezed he goes flex that muscle because i was on ecstasy yeah straight there and fucking flex that muscle and i went up well from that point i went for like five years i started climbing trees and I never climbed trees in my life, but that was my test.

Yeah. Someone would throw a Frisbee up in the tree at the park or anytime anyone needed to go up and do tree ever for the next five years, I would go. Yeah. And I viewed it as a test. Yeah, totally. Because I had learned how to do a pull up and now I had confidence in my hands. Totally. Yeah. But I just bring this up because the test doesn't have to be stopwatch, counting reps. It has to do getting out of your comfort zone and trying new things.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, you should never be afraid to come up short, fail. be afraid to come up short fail or like i mean if you're last place if you can learn something apply it and be better for that that's really the only thing you need to ask for you know is that that's opportunity to learn and and competing is 100 an opportunity to learn in a different way than showing up every day and either participating in your sport or training for that sport without competition.

Yeah. For me, if I entered a competition, like for, for me, whenever I did the open, it was always, I could give two, I get 2% I cared where I placed in 98%. I cared that like, Holy shit. I did this five weeks in a row. Yeah. It was really that significant to me. Like, Holy shit. I played sports or anything as a kid. I was just. Yeah. I mean, my motivator for when I ran the death race was just the challenge of

overcoming this idea of running 125 kilometers without rest. Like, I mean, my buddy and I i ran it we ran it together and we started training in january and raced it in july so we did six months of training and that whole time that drive was just like is this is this possible for me did you almost tap on that race no no it went really well yeah it did I did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We did. We, we, uh, it was like second, uh, in like 20, 29 age category. And, um, um, it was really good. Yeah. Yeah. No, no injuries, no issues. Um, motivated all the way to the end. Super awesome. Uh, Heidi Kroom, uh, yep. Documentaries and behind the scenes are why I started.

Yeah. That's, I think that's a lot of people's story like i think that content's worth getting out there so the idea that i mean if all of my affiliate fees went to supporting the cross at games i would have zero problems with that and i mean to be fair too i think cross it does a lot more and offers a lot more with their like that professional coach articles that come out every month. Like, I think they're putting out a ton of great content. It's like, I'm 14 years in. So it's not that, I mean, my learning process is still always an evolution and I, I do read that content, but it's not the primary reason why for me, like, yeah, credit where credit is due. And that's, and that's, you know, a big piece. I mean, I love the community. I mean, I've got friends, I mean, big Jesse, you know, Curtis, uh, Chris

McDonald, like these guys go, you know, Jason McDonald, um, Todd Whitman, like, um, you know, my, my level two, you know, some people, you know, any stump was at the, uh, he was one of the instructors at that level too, uh that i took when i met you um and it was nicole carroll was there and and uh and boss and i was just like uh oh i remember that and they would take you into the back room yeah totally yeah yeah all but like people would come out three of us passed yeah you passed you. Oh yeah. Shit. I remember that people would come out crying. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was, it was legit. Like, yeah. Andy would say some crazy shit to people. Yeah. I mean, that was the only time I ever met him, but I mean,

I liked that guy straight away. Yeah. He's pretty, he's pretty forth, forth, forthright. Yeah. Yeah. The, um, um, Heidi Kroom, great interview. Please have him back. You know what I was thinking heidi i'm trying to think how i can um uh monetize him no did i say that out loud uh um it would be fun to bring him on the show with jr and taylor and talk programming as the games programming comes out and to hear uh jesse's take on programming oh you want adam for something you gotta get adam in on things like that i mean adam gets really quiet he's almost too humble he gets really when i've had him on the show he gets

really quiet i mean he's his ability to analyze i mean i feel like his like 10 years producing games teams yeah is just developed like this ability for him to analyze and break things down where like there's pieces he looks at that i just i'm like oh man like okay i gotta give him another shot i gotta give him another shot i feel like when i've had him on um we're we're too cantankerous for him that he's he's like too humble for the group he's brilliant man like i mean we like he made like when i was down in torian with ellie i mean by the time we get there, all the warmups are fully structured and laid out all the way to the end. Like all those sort of pieces are like, you know, how,

how he breaks down strategy and planning for the individual athlete for the event event to event is like, I mean, can't, that can't be like, it's a, it's amazing. You know, like it's tough for him. Like he's like, Oh, you talk to him. He's like, Oh, this is his. And you're like, I mean, that's not where I got to. Right.

Right. Like, fuck, that's, that's very insightful. And right. And I was like, I didn't catch that at all. Like, I mean, that's, that's where I, you know, such a privilege to work with him. Maybe I'll tell him next time he comes on, drink two cups of coffee. And three of these guys on the show said something about your mom. I just want to let you know. Get him kind of wound up a little bit.

Yeah, I'm not sure what we'd get. He's not a wound up guy. No, he's not wound up. Yeah, he's consistent. He's a smiler. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's a a wound up guy no he's not yeah he's yeah he's consistent yeah he's a smiler yeah yeah yeah he's a smiler hey brother i this is uh fun uh the the the last hour and a half went by faster than the first hour and a half i really i really appreciate you jesse i was excited to meet you i suspect it was going to be easy and and you are easy. Thank you for, uh, Cheers, man. I really appreciate it. I, uh, yeah. Thanks for the opportunity. This is a, this is my first podcast. Oh, cool.

I haven't actually been on a podcast for you. Just host one. Yeah. Yeah. I had to start one cause no one is interested in me. Uh, well you're always welcome on the show. Um, I can tell by the chat that people are stoked on you. Um, I think people are going to love this and I have a feeling that our paths uh will cross again thank you cheers man all right brother have a good day yeah take care talk to you soon bye uh he doesn't drink coffee well there you go that's the fucking problem uh sean lenderman uh thanks jesse i love you i'm love you very intimate Seve trying to sneak the Sevan podcast onto the team yeah

get him on the team take him back from Justin's team whatever dude that dude would be as we started scratching we were getting more and more opinions out of him I fucking dig that dude thank you Heidi I really enjoy that guy Good show

Stoked Tomorrow's gonna be a fun show I don't know how to pronounce the guy's name who's coming on I should show you this guy's Instagram Who's coming on tomorrow I think one of his mottos is Not to live in an echo chamber sometimes i'm like do i live in an echo chamber oh and the echo chamber could just be the algorithm right i mean it's even um i bet you a

lot of us because we live in our own kind of echo chamber around the show i bet you our algorithm shows a lot of the same shit i mean shit i choose stuff to show that you guys send me uh uh william roish education i disarm echo chambers through civil discourse and critical thinking high school civics teacher in los angeles host of uh cylinder radio podcast these little anti-semitism anti-semitism talk bores me i don't even i don't even see any anti-semitism it seems made up uh yes you are a victim now what okay let's see let's play this one just to see young people today are looking at all the ways that they've been dealt a bad hand all the ways that they've been wrong all the ways that they're

a victim and you know what yeah you are you want to look at that you can see all the ways that they've been dealt a bad hand, all the ways that they've been wrong, all the ways that they're a victim. And you know what? Yeah, you are. You want to look at that? You can see all the ways that you're a victim, but what is going to serve you? What is going to be best for you and your family and your community and your world? How is the best way you're going to solve

is not to focus on that. It's true. And everyone can find ways that they're a victim, but how are you going to play that hand? And that's just something that I think is really missing from a lot of the narratives that young people are getting. A lot of the things that we see on Instagram, how you have to be perfect. You have to look this way. You have to do this. Getting a little bit of a James Jim Carrey vibe from this dude.

Hey, look at that gray patch on his head. That's like Angelo DiCicco had that. head that's like um angelo de chico had that and then there was some uh a basketball player um god i don't know i don't maybe when i was in my 20s or 30s who had a patch like that on the top of his head someone will know his name kind of stuff or all the things that are wrong with you because you're too fat or you're too this you're too that and it's like that messaging catches up the kids and the more that we can promote what you're saying, the more that we can promote what Anthony Robles is doing and Sidney Smith and all these people,

that's the message that these young people need to hear. Yeah, so here we go. This guy's coming on tomorrow. I think it's going to be fun. Mike Preston, I don't see anti-Semitism. Laugh out loud. What the fuck? I don't see antisemitism. Laugh out loud. What the fuck? I don't.

I never see it. The only antisemitism I see is this antisemitism that comes out of my mouth, and it's always in joke form. And my wife's Jewish, and it's not even antisemitism. I just never see it. What do you want? Why is that what the fuck? Why is that funny?

I just don't see it. I just don't. I don't. One time a guy bought a motorcycle from me and he asked me if I was trying to Jew him. Like, I wouldn't even have been offended by that in the slightest, except I have three little Jewish boys. And I was like, yeah, that kind of sucks that he said that but i don't even think he i don't i i don't think he uh i don't think he was like i don't think he's a jew hater because of that i think it's just part of the fucking vernacular no no one said well people don't go oh my god

that's so gay because they hate gay people. Just somehow slipped into the vernacular. I mean, look at all the fucking rap music we listen to. I've used the N-word 347 million times, and I've never meant it as anything negative. I meant it as an endearing, loving term. Every single time. You know the one, N-I-G-G. You know what I'm talking about? For those of you that are like, don't know.

You guys know that one? You guys know that one? You guys know that one? Anyone? Anyway. Popular in the rap vernacular. No, you don't know it? Good. I'm glad you don't know it.

Anyway. All right. I'm excited and then um uh and then on friday james townsend i'm gonna get to the bottom of this james townsend character i think james has lived a incredible life it's gonna be fun to hear his story i'm kind of in the same way that i'm actually interested in building a friendship a closer friendship friendship with James so I can also monetize. I mean do shows with James during the games. I need to bring James on enough so that when people first come on, you kind of have to bring them along, right? You have to be like, oh, so what do you think, JR? Oh, so what do you think, Taylor? And then once they've've been on enough you don't kind of have to do that as much

they'll just start interjecting and james is still kind of when he comes on the show he's still in like polite mode i gotta get him out of that fucking polite mode oh oh the fluffy duck guy uh susan just told's scheduled on the 30th. Oh, that's awesome. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you, Susan. All right.

I am trying to schedule a show with Tyler Watkins and John Young and Brian Spinn and Mike Halpin and I don't know, I guess anyone, but I only need like three of them to show up to do just a semifinals review show where we just dig into the semifinals. But I keep fucking it all up. I can't get situated. And the truth is, is because my buddy Greg's in town and I'm i'm uh feeling i don't want to commit to anything after 10 a.m in case he'll play with me right so it's like i'm gonna get off

here and be like so what are you doing and like kind of like plant seeds like hey you want to go do something and if he does then i don't want to like have other shit i already got my all my kids stuff i like to do. So I'm struggling. You know how sometimes we do two podcasts in one day. I'm struggling to do that while he's in town. And he's been here for like three weeks. I know.

I know I need to, Ken. I know. I have to. Okay. If you're listening now, make sure you subscribe. Make sure you like. Make sure you like. Make sure you leave a comment in the YouTube comments, all that stuff. How about the fact that no one juices at that dude's gym? Or it's not appropriate.

That caught me way off guard. Thought everyone had to juice. I thought everyone had to juice. There was an interesting comment by Dan Guerrero in there, by the way, that I wanted to read. Oh, fuck it. Never mind. He was basically saying that's how you – when we were talking about the sleds,

he said that's how you critique without being an asshole. I kind of wanted to push back on that a little bit, but I also appreciated his comment. Okay. Omar Canel. Bye-bye.