The Sevan Podcast - Wodapalooza Qualifier & Rogue Talk ft. Kiefer Lammi | Shut Up & Scribble Ep. 16

Episode Date: September 22, 2023

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Shut up and scroll episode 16. Joined by Kie is that lammy is that correct yeah that's right you're probably the first person to say it right that's good there we go i would have said yeah justin still says lami it's okay and of course taylor and jr today we're going to talk through the release workouts for what a palooza qualifier talk a little rogue maybe a little i don't know what else, but. Ladies and gentlemen, this is the main event of the evening. So keep the political commentary to yourself, or as someone once said, shut up and dribble. It's time I was looking for something to pull up over us

so we didn't have to sit here you should have pulled up what I just uploaded whose google search history is worse mine or Will's i i feel like you have a dark dude i feel like you have a dark history no i'll export it right now and send it to you all right dude keifer welcome thank you it's good to be here keifer so what's your role what's your title with Underdogs?

Co-founder, assistant head coach. Nice. So, you know, it's obviously it's Justin's baby and probably wouldn't exist without him. We won't. Oh, thanks, Justin. But we kind of banded together to create Underdogs. And then I shortly after moved out here. And now we're just trying to build the camp.

So how many years ago did you guys start it two two yeah wow it's uh feels like for longer than that yeah yeah that's crazy justin's been around what 12 years or so and he's been coaching athletes for a long time and it was right around the time when carrie bethany and danielle were all competing that we that we started to build underdogs so what is your day-to-day uh like what are you helping or kind of what's your role today uh so i i own pretty much in person at least i exclusively coach the athletes we have so every day except for their rest days i go into the gym for you know three to five hours coach them the rest of my work is almost entirely programming or based from home or calls with justin or trying to do podcasts and things like that.

I'm lucky. Where do you do most of your programming? What's your work process like? I have like a home office space that I use or I'll go to a coffee shop for it. Sometimes I just get burnt out in my own space and I'll just be like, you know what? If I can go to a coffee shop and sit here for two hours, I'll be more productive. That's how I'm going through that right now. I can't get shit done at the gym. I can't get shit done in my house. So

I'm like, like I might just sit on the sidewalk. You need a third space. I know. So I did, I worked from a coffee shop today. I never try to get anything done at the gym. I can barely, honestly, I can barely work out at the gym half the time because I show up to work out before they do. And then by the time I get halfway into something they start showing up and asking questions and i i can't disconnect from being a coach when i'm working out i can't so do you mainly do uh programming for 101 or do you help with the tracks and programs like that as well no we we work on the the elite and r RX and Everyday Underdog template tracks together. So we manage all that stuff.

I have a handful of athletes I coach. Is that a you and Justin collaboration on all the programming? Yeah. When it started, we just started with the Elite program. And our initial intention was like, we wanted to, there's obviously a ton of programs out there. Everybody's got their own version of a great product, but we wanted to cater specifically to a competitive group. And the easiest thing we could do is essentially take what we were doing or what he was doing at the time for Kerry, Bethany, Danielle,

some of the other athletes, Matthew Lugos, and turn that into more of like a generalized elite competitors program. And so we've run with that for the last couple of years. Then we spun off an RX program, which is, you know, scaled down to the open quarterfinals level and then a few other offshoot programs from there but what do you think what do you think the biggest difference between a general track for an elite competitor the biggest difference between that and like individualized programming for a competitor what's the biggest difference i feel like i had a bit of an epiphany on this

the other day uh so what my general speech to people is like if you want to know the amount of work or the style of work that ricky is doing to get ready for the crossfit games through most of the season like that's the same type of stuff that's in our template but it's all taken under an assumption that you're a perfectly balanced generalized athlete so whereas like our template might have skill work every day of the week for something different. If you ask any one of our individual athletes, they might have three to four days of one thing and much less of another

because they don't need that. So, so yeah, you know, same thing with machines. Like, you know, we might generalize more foundational base building phases of machine work and touch on all the machines throughout the week. But if you you know alex or kyra for example last year who both needed to get better at running like they ran three days a week our template didn't run three days a week because we don't want to assume that for everybody nice what do you enjoy most programming wise working with an athlete one-on-one or yeah yeah i'm so lucky though that we have so many people in-house here like over i used to think that i loved remote programming because i could go

wherever the fuck i wanted in the world and i could program in a coffee shop there and i still enjoy that but the fact that i get to work with them in person so much means that i spend less time on like having to give remote feedback or having to film something or talk about something that's like impossible to articulate over the computer and so much easier in person and so I just get a lot of opportunities to tinker every day because I can write things and then I can see it and we can make changes each day and so it's less stressful on the programming end because I'm not trying to make it as perfect because I know that I'll be there with them what were you doing before underdogs uh so I've been a strength coach pretty much since i left college um started with like

strength and conditioning for more traditional sports worked a lot with baseball players basketball other field sports um and then you know right around the time of covet i started working in victus boston and i was coaching in the affiliate full-time started programming for the affiliate uh i did and still do work for Black Iron Nutrition. I was doing some nutrition coaching and then I was writing their training template programs there. Um, and then that's right about the time when Justin and I connected because, you know, I was working and training with Tola and Kelsey who were at Invictus Boston at the time they were both working with Justin. And so I sort of like entered into the competitive

realm via them and then have picked up with that since. What's the difference? Obviously, there's a huge difference, but for you, fun wise, between your strength and conditioning days programming for that versus programming for cost CrossFit athletes, like what are the biggest differences you see? Or is it more enjoyable because of more variance? Or it's like, it's like the perfect blend of being the coach for the sport and being the strength coach. So I like this the most because it's the most engaging for me. Like,

I, you know, I played college basketball, so I love to work with basketball guys in the weight room, but it's always just like a piece of the puzzle for them. So either their engagement's not that, not that high or my reward from it's not that high because I could help them as much as I want in the weight room. But if they're just not skilled or not intelligent on the basketball floor

it doesn't matter but with CrossFit it's like okay I can build their capacity I can build their strength and we get to talk about like sport practice we get to talk about strategy and everything at the same time. Would you rather program for individuals or a group or program competitions? I think individuals or groups, like as Justin and I go through the process right now of programming for a pretty big event in Egypt coming up, it's kind of like they're a lot of outfit. Yeah. That's sick. And it's like, and it's awesome. And they have a ton of resources and a really cool team and the people running it also have their own equipment distributor so they can build some stuff for us but like as you guys have found out too like there

are inherent limitations to what you can do uh and so there's like a kind of a stop on your creative mind for that or you know you want to do something but the time domain has to be different for a different reason but it's a fun problem but i prefer being on the athlete end of it because like i'm past the point of thinking that i can compete with anything that I'm doing at this point. But the idea of getting people ready to compete and being on the sidelines to, to like cheer them on still gets me really fired up. Do you know who programmed that competition last year? I don't.

Because I would love to know because I mean there were some, there were some pretty cool formats, some, some cool workouts. Like I just remember the horizontal pegboard and that being something that was a little bit nuanced, but also something that wasn't too far-fetched as far as what the progression of climbing or hanging movements could be. I just thought it was really interesting. I was curious to know who programmed it. No, it's a huge event. They do a good job.

And like I said, they kind of have some free liberty to build stuff themselves or get access to it. And so it's definitely been cool. Like, you know, we get to go off site. They have multiple stages for things. They have a soccer field and a tennis stadium and, you know, beach and pool access. So it's about as much as we could ask for, for an event that doesn't probably have the money that like a water blues or something else does. or an event that doesn't probably have the money that like a water blues or something else does. Sure. If you had the choice to program for an individual or only individuals or a general track one or the other, which would it be?

The individuals. I'm the opposite. I think, well, you probably run into this too, but you may feel differently about it. It's like, I can feel as, I can feel as great as i could possibly feel about the template program but i know that it's not perfect for any person that's on it and i think that's so hard is like people will ask questions in our chat about i'm sure they do for you they're like oh like i can't do this thing or oh um you know i didn't improve on my score for this thing

and i want to be like well it's like maybe this just wasn't you needed something five percent different or you needed a little bit of like the self-awareness to know like oh when i see this show up i should probably work on this instead or oh my you know like i'm great on a bike but i'm a terrible runner like maybe i should sub one of my bike days out and get on a runner again you know so for me it's a frustration because i want it to be perfect. And I think that, you know, even from a lens of template program, we can feel really good about it. But I know that it's not the same service that one-on-one coaching is. I feel like I like the general track better because it while it is a program that would suit a lot of athletes that categorize them as elite i think that if you are upper end of semifinals you should probably have individualized coaching there's not going to be a

general track that's that's there for you i think if you're not upper end semifinals either you're on the way to that or are you the person who generally who genuinely has a chance to make it to the games and if you're not i was thinking about this the other day like what kind of person who isn't truly going to make the games or that's not a realistic goal for them they're still super fit how reasonable is it for me to expect them to destroy like really just run themselves into the dirt on weaknesses as much as it takes or as much as you would as much as i would that's probably the key yeah as much as i would i uh i get it i mean that's brutal our template track is awesome and i think that for people that are like quarterfinals level and trying to get ready for a semifinals run i think

that's great i think that there's no question that there's an individualized feel of, even if that's just the feedback that you get or, or teaching them more about how to pace workouts, that's always going to be a little bit better, but you get no community feel. That's like the first conversation we have when people try to do it in intake form with us. And we have a call talking about one-on-one coaching is I'm like, what's your gym environment? Like, are you going to be off in the corner by yourself now training? Does that bug you? Would you rather train with a group? And that's, you know, we have a ton of people in the Oceania region that, that do our stuff. And some of them are like knocking on the door to the

game. Some of them are mid-level semifinals and a bunch of them still mostly follow our template track. And then we just have calls with them on a weekly basis to talk about like, well, we could, you know, think about doing this because they prefer to train as a pod than to train isolated. Right,

right, right. That's so, that's so huge. Like it takes me back to like the Maliolo Hobart, like who you're, how you're doing it and who you're doing it with is arguably more important than what you're doing.

I think that, I think if you have the right environment and the right intensity like that to me probably comes first that's sent you know basing it off the assumption that you're not doing something completely fucking stupid but you have great intensity in a really good environment that's probably takes priority over exactly what you're doing but if you have those two things then what you're doing is super important as well um yeah cool yeah man rogue talking about tia waterpalooza first before you go on your rants yeah let's do waterpalooza how many of those came out today so far the last two

so is there a two scored one no it's just five total. Just five scores. Okay. Wow, that's crazy. It's like an open. Five scores. So what's the process for this? People have been doing this. It's multi-week or? Two-week, right?

Two weeks. Week one had three scores. Week two has two more scores. Top 20 will qualify into elite. Next 20 RX. I presume after that that it's first come, first served for signing up for what used to be intermediate and is now like their community division. Right. How much of a punch to the fucking dick is it if you are like you consider yourself an elite athlete and you qualify for wadapalooza rx but not elite i was i had this conversation with a couple people recently because i think that they're what they what we're

used to considering is like an rx division is not what a lot of loses rx is anymore it's like a games competition and a semi-finals competition essentially right gi one rx wadapalooza i think the year before he went to the games for the first time as an individual um if you look at the leaderboard right now i mean we can pull it up i think 21 through 40 has several semifinals athletes like from this year when so there's only going to be a field of 20 and rx i think i think i think the other yeah yeah 20 for rx and then i imagine 40 you would think for early and that's so if, you would think, for Elite. If you think about that, even just that, if there's 40 in Elite, that's essentially a games field.

You have what? Just from North America alone, we have 80 more semifinalists that could potentially be in a field for 20 spots for an RX division. You have to take your ego out of that when you think that RX is beneath you or something and say, that's okay if you don't want to sign up for the community division, if you don't make it. But to say like you suck, if you make RX instead of elite is tough. I also think it's odd because there are going to be athletes in the elite field. They get invitations that aren't as good as some of the athletes that

qualify into the RX field potentially. Yeah. Well, that probably plays into the programming too. I thought it's, I feel like because they made this change, this is a super interesting year for the qualifier because you have to figure out a way to make it suitable for everybody because it's just one qualifier,

but you also have to figure out a way to separate people. It's like this is essentially trying to qualify from the Open straight to semifinals right now. Dude, I just realized I don't have my instagram handle it's my is my name you're screwed dude fuck instagram just kidding missed out on two it makes me it makes me want to like go out like log out and come back okay hold on guys let me change yeah i mean dude max creed carone matthias porter who's that evan rogers all those guys are top are like top 30 semifinalists carolina boy evan drake lewis and andre strands are both semifinals guy willahe

tanner went on a team this year ethan hellbig i mean yeah there's there's yeah there's a ton of and i mean without the two scores at the end i mean things could shift a lot but you would imagine the guys in the top 10 will probably stay there unless they've got a gaping hole. How many people do you have on site that are doing the Eastkeeper? Wait, wait, wait. Slow, slow. Go up, go up a little bit. I missed like the 20 hotline. Maybe five or six right now. Less than we've had in the past, actually. I think a couple people are planning to do team,

a couple people just have other events coming up this offseason. But most of our younger females are doing them right now. And then a couple masters, a couple teens. Yeah. Can we go up to the top 20 for the women? Are we going to talk about the leaderboard at all? Dude, this has got to change. There are some crazy names outside the top 20 and some crazy names within the top 20.

What did this girl snatch? 191. That's crazy. I was thinking this too. And I assumed my thought was that week two had to have more opportunities for separation because week one essentially was a max lift, which is going to have outliers no matter what and then two workouts that are largely just long work capacity open style workouts where load and skill were mostly irrelevant for people like it's not enough chest to bar in that one workout for it to make a difference and the other workouts bar on

the other one yep and you don't really even get to the the heavier barbell until you're so deep in the workout that it's, it's almost irrelevant except for separating people that were already going to be in the top 20. I mean, I don't know about you guys, but seeing Rebecca and sixth with one out of three, just being a pure max is really impressive to me. That is impressive.

That being said, I feel pretty strongly that like workouts one and three are largely the same thing yeah they're based on i mean some of the top times were almost 15 minutes for that chipper even though it was a you know 20 minute time cap uh and then based on how athletes felt after i feel like they all had almost the exact same feeling at the end of those workouts really really similar stimulus not a ton of and like you said you know looking for skill to separate after these first three workouts and not really getting it i don't and it's also weird because looking now to be honest i did not do a thorough review of all five workouts but looking at the last two i'm like wow yeah those are pretty similar too

i thought like what go ahead i was just gonna say i'm just thinking like what are you testing with 45 handstand push-ups and deadlifts and then what are you testing with dumbbell lunges and dumbbell shoulder overhead yeah well i mean they kind of did that week one when the you know the front squat workout came out i was like cool it was like there's no way they're gonna have wall balls or something and not only they have them they had them in the next workout the same week so i almost feel like maybe it was intentional that on the same weeks they gave you similar stimuli so that you have to question whether or not you can redo them or what the risk reward is of that

because you're smashing the same parts of your body. Do you think they thought that hard, JR? Be honest. I'm a little bit more curious as to why there wasn't um a progression style workout with skill being the limitation that's so we literally talked about that last week is you know deadlifts and handstand push-ups made a lot of sense because we had wall space didn't necessarily have like didn't know if we were going to have walking room we hadn't done you know barbell hinging i was like oh like we actually said like oh Diane type of thing would

be cool maybe they'll have it so that it goes from handstand push-ups to strict to wall facing and I think that would provide a lot more room for separation yeah I was just you're looking at the last two I was talking to a guy that is doing them at the gym and I was like well you would think they're gonna have the rings last year they did burpee muscle up probably won't do that again but typically there's a skill in there that will that will at least take care of some bottlenecks or just some people who are skating by that aren't very skilled but because there's no rope on the equipment list and because there aren't ring muscle ups i don't know i mean this it feels a lot more old school open general work capacity like i mean even the bottlenecks i think on on the 12 minute

air map i haven't broken it down yet for time but like i wonder is it going to be who can get back to the rope for another round that just really starts to separate themselves in that workout yeah do we know who programmed it are they doing it internally this year they had a team of people internally that did it weren't you guys involved with it last yeah they had like four or five camps total last year that came together for them this year they did it all internally because i think it was easier for them i think from my understanding is that they have the majority of the on-site event done already as well and so it just gave them more congruency to plan everything out so when i heard that my thought was like cool kind of like how jr

talked about like this makes it so much easier to essentially use your qualifier to test for movements that you want to be able to have people prepared for like if i want people to do pegboards yeah it's a screen for it if i want pegboards then i want to make sure people can do like this here it's like you haven't tested anything that might be relevant for a high skill test of wadapalooza which is something that they're pretty known for doing more than a couple of yeah like the year i went they did that uh online workout that was the toe to bar devil's press ladder was it and then the final yeah and then the final was the 55 55 dumb workout i like broke my palm on that workout from slamming the dumbbells down on the ground.

55 reps in a row. Just when I do devil's press, I don't lower them in between my legs and then swing them forward. I just ride the dumbbell straight from overhead to the ground. So like the front head of the dumbbell hits and then the back head hits and it kind of bounces up and hits me in the palm right here. You remember that Jr? I couldn't do like, I couldn't handstand walkers for like two or three months. Yeah, i do remember that um do we know who programmed this year is it did guido do it again we you know we don't the best of my understanding it wasn't guido it was like a group of their team so it was like dylan and some other people on the team internally so the so the same people who are doing the qualifier are also programming the in-person

correct that's good do we have it kind of sounds like from hearing dylan talk that they're kind of planning on releasing workouts early this year because they want i'm just that might be speculation i'm based on what he said because they're working with the pfa right and i think they're trying to convince people to do individual and teams again which it seems like a lot of people were out on after last year because of the volume, which made that, that's what made me believe that they were going to try to be like,

Hey, it's going to be okay. We're ramping down the volume. That's, that's probably smart if they want the same name power. Right. Yeah. Did you guys like that format last year?

I thought it was cool just because it was because it felt a little bit more old school. Like in the beginning when I started CrossFit 12, 13, it felt like most competitions, like weekend throwdowns, would be individual one day, team the next day. And the same people who were like top 10 would be competing on teams on Sunday. So they would just try to win both of them. It felt a little bit more like that, which was kind of cool, like an old school fashion.

But again, you just have to be very careful with loading, total volume, all that kind of stuff, movement redundancies, you know, or else people get hurt. What was y'all's experience with that, Kiefer, with your athletes? I thought it was awesome. I mean, Ricky did both and he had a blast, but he's the kind of guy, like I think a lot of the that do it are there like more opportunities to compete, the better for him. I don't even think he cares or thinks about what the work movements are, what the volume is. Like, he just wants more opportunities to do that. And I think this is the best opportunity to see, see the, like the better name known athletes, the ones that we'd like to to watch compete do it more frequently and for longer i think if you ask them to choose between individual and team because they're both

three days then neither competition is exciting as last year was having both of them yeah did any of them leave uh athletes you worked with leave the weekend being like i'm never doing both again i don't think so i think everyone all of our athletes that did both last year are doing trying to do both again this year nice you want to look at anything else on the these workouts are we going to analyze them i mean well let's pull them up just i yeah pull this workout oh we i don't even think we put them on the screen yet let's just do a quick run through. Two-minute cap per workout.

JR, you get the first workout. I'll get the next. Kiefer gets the one after, and then we'll go on that. Perfect. I'll get the one that doesn't exist. Oops. That's good. I got the sixth.

No, that's perfect. You can double the sixth. You can take the sixth. I don't need to take it. That's workout five. How do I mess this up? How do I get myself off the screen? Yeah, workout four is just like a choose-your-own-adventure, Diane.

Right. All right, JR. Yeah, it's a 15-minute AMRAP, 10X642, and with each round, the barbell load increases, as Kiefer alluded to early on. Even with 15 minutes, the loading doesn't really become relevant until the workout's almost over so at this point it's like squat cycle side squat cycle time speed staying unbroken on toes to bar which even through

three rounds is only 90 it's not a crazy amount of volume but like you spoke to also doing the same workouts for everyone i'm sure was really challenging so in that respect for a lot of athletes especially in the community division, even getting through 60 toes to bar and getting to the third barbell is probably still a pretty tall ask. This one, I think, just really comes down to general work capacity.

It really doesn't favor skill. It doesn't favor loading. It just favors work capacity. It'll be interesting if this workout, you wouldn't expect it to be the lift you could probably make an argument for um the for the lunge workout but i think this one might actually give you a better indication of who ends up qualifying like if you look at the finishes on this workout juxtaposed to the entire competition you'll probably see similar people

that excelled on this one be the ones that get through. It's a good balance. Next, workout two. Can't wait to dissect this one. What do I dissect? I typically don't like single modality tests, but I thought this complex was really cool, especially the tiebreak of max overhead squats.

I think the only market that I have is you've got squatting and workout one, squatting workout two. And then when you go to the third workout, it'll be more squatting, which I'm not partial to like that much redundancy. I would say I feel like you have. You love high volume squat tests. I do, but I did, but I, but I don't like the fact that there's five events and it just seems like there's so much redundancy within that one. I feel like you should have a bit of a broader stroke when testing for things. That being said, I didn't know that the qualifier work, like when I, we see the qualifier, I'm thinking just elite in my head. I didn't know the qualifier workouts were the exact same for all divisions.

I can't even imagine trying to program for that. Like that would just be a fucking nightmare. It's tough. Um, I like it. I like that though. I like the first one. I think the first one's cool.

I think the first one's very transitiony. Like you're just moving between things back and forth a ton, which is like typical for some open workouts this one i like for a max lift i think it's really cool yeah i think if you're going to do a max lift having it be some version of a snatch and something that's a complex and requires you to hold on to the bar is good i think i mean i get what you're saying about all three being having a squat involved but the squat's probably the least relevant piece of this after like your technique your overhead and then probably your grip honestly by the third rep so how does the tie break work for this max

overhead squats so it's your weight if you get the same weight on the one snatch plus two hang snatches so you do a full snatch from the floor then two hang snatches power squat whatever most everyone's squatting after you finish your second hang snatch you hold on to the bar and you squat as many times as possible so that anybody who ties your weight, so say me and Guy both tie, which is pretty realistic, then whoever squats it more times is going to break that tie. So if we both hit 275 and he squats it 10 times and I squat it zero times, he takes the tiebreak.

Interesting. Which is cool. I like that. So are people doing multiple attempts in this five-minute window or because it's five minutes, if you miss it, you're like, well, we'll redo it. It's probably like two maybe. I would say one.

I don't know how you would do even more than one. You don't even need to. Because you just restart your clock. The guidelines for water blues that were so much easier if you missed your first attempt you could just stop the clock do your intro again unload your bar and start over like the cost of redoing is just starting with an empty bar yeah because it seems like with that tie break if you're going to do the tie break you're not going to do another attempt yeah correct because yeah if you do it right yeah mike alpin's in the comments oh sorry hike malpin hike malpin third workout yep um so i actually really like this workout like ascending rep scheme format

bunch of different movements involved get a one minute rest after each round that allows you to reset honestly it probably just made it easy for them on being able to see monitors for rowing each time but i think the rest is the rest is sort of a trap as is the ascending rep scheme it makes you feel like you can come out much faster than you can i think every athlete that i had redo this went probably 10 15 slower on the first round and got a minute faster by the end of the workout because it out much faster than you can. I think every athlete that I had redo this went probably 10, 15% slower on the first round and got a minute faster by the end of the workout. Cause it really just comes down to like what pace overall you can maintain in the set of 20 in the set of 25. I think at the, at the highest end, it was a little more of an output workout than if you

were to compare it to the, you know, the front squat burpee, uh, total bar workout, because you can put out a little bit better on the row. You can put out a little bit more on the box jump overs and your cycle speed on the snatch, but in the middle realm, it was very much just another like general work capacity fitness test for most people. Did you see one of the four movements? I'm sorry. One of the five movements seem to matter more than the rest because like I look at it on paper and before you even answer and that's probably just because I'm old and I'm a little bit more cautious but like I see the box jump over at that those heights which you typically don't see unless it's a mandatory step down or even like a clear and I'm thinking to myself dude like unless unless I train unless i train 30 inch

bounding all the time there's no way i'm doing that in this workout and i was wondering if like that seemed like the slowest movement because you're always starting with the calories after a rest so you can kind of hammer down on a little bit is is that what you saw the box jumps kind of matter more or yeah i would say the watch the by far the most important movement was the box jump overs because you could lose so much time on it and on the higher end like if you could cycle them which is probably easier for the women than the men because 24 for women is not as dramatic as 30 for some of the guys i think or at least from the athletes i saw i agree that was a big separator and then from there it was how well did you pace and does that mean you can hold on to the

dumbbell because those dumbbell snatch breaks could take a long time if it's because you have to because you're totally blown up at the end but for most people like the difference between rowing at 1200 and rowing at 1400 in terms of time over nothing 60 total cows is nothing in the workout the cost of a break on a wall ball or chest of bars could be five seconds or 10 seconds but you could you could do 20 box jump overs in 50 seconds or you could do it in three minutes if you're fucked up in the middle of a workout so that was where most of it went we did like we charted out the each round time for the number of reps and like what that was as a pace and so many people i'd see like 24 reps a minute in the first round 19 in the second round like 24 reps a minute in the first round, 19 in the second round, like 14 reps a minute in the third round.

And we were talking about a round that takes three minutes longer to begin with and your eight reps a minute slower. That's two or three minutes on your workout. Massive. Sure. And it is kind of new. It is nuanced. I've never seen it counted, I guess, like this before, but i really like that there's 120 snatches yeah because

right left is one as opposed to just doing 15 20 25 it makes that movement matter a little bit more if you're really good at chest to bar cycle time by far the fastest movement then next would be the snatch but you got to do two to one, which I think is good, especially finishing the interval. My athlete said the feel on this was very similar to the burpee box jump over dumbbell snatch open workout. Oh, wow. Way nastier than they thought it would be. Great workout. Yeah.

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Next. Poor time. Back to me. I was actually talking to Zach about this and he's he probably has close to 50 if not more like current open standard strict handstand push-ups unbroken

it's actually not to the current open standard either what is it I don't know if you guys saw it they're using the 40 inch box oh fuck me dude that's awesome like it's even easier oh even yeah so even for him this would be like he could even take way more advantage of his anthropometrics i i asked him i was like dude what what do you think about what do you think about just opening up with 45 strict unbroken and then just and then just deal with the deadlifts when you're tired, even if you're pulling single after single after single after single?

Or do you think you can go 21-15-9 and go touch and go unbroken and still keep the strict unbroken? Because I think at the elite level, and you guys can push back on me especially, I think most of the guys that do well on this know they probably have to do at least a big chunk of strict just because of time. There's just not enough time in this workout to separate we uh we chatted with carrie about this yesterday carrie pierce because we

actually have like one of the tips videos coming out and she's in it for us and she she has 60 strict unbroken i think she's done 50 strict in like under 40 seconds it's just that's her movement and i think she said what she would try to do like like 45 deadlifts or sorry, 25 deadlifts, all 45 handstand pushups in the last 20 deadlifts. So she could try to stay on broken on those two. I feel like that's a bad idea unless you're like her at handstand pushups. Oh, 100%. Because I'm like, I was thinking about, I was like, God, opening up with the deadlifts

would just murder my ability to do handstand pushups. And I'm pretty good at handstand pushups. I would just think like what JR said, open up with a massive set of handstand push-ups and i'm pretty good at handstand push-ups i would i would just think like what jr said open up with a massive set of handstand push-ups if 45 and then just figure it out but what i i yeah i don't know i mean i think for most people that makes more sense yeah yeah but the 45 deadlifts also in a row like that has the potential to get like just dumb so i i almost feel like maybe you open up with 15 deadlifts, which at two 25 for a guy is really not much at all. And then go handstand pushups. Why not start with handstand pushups while you're fresh though? Like what if you just did Diane, but flipped it and you go

handstand pushup deadlift. I'm just thinking of my capacity. Like I know I can do 45 handstand pushups. I'm broken. No problem. And I think it wouldn't make much of a difference if it was fresh or after 15 deadlifts. Like I don't think 15 deadlifts would hinder my capacity to do a set of 45. I do like 25 strict and then 20 kipping and then go and finish the last set of 30 I think is way more manageable than a set of 45 deadlifts. I'm just thinking like, okay, you get to 35 and then you just get fucking blown out yeah and while this while this format is definitely not conducive to watching in an in-person competition it's really cool for like for a qualifier as far as a format goes but i was because there are people that are doing the community division that may just do 15 rounds of three and three because if they don't they're not going to be able to do any more handstand pushups. And it is cool. Remember for the age group quarterfinals this year, a lot of people saw the muscle-up thruster workout and said,

oh, everyone's just going to do their unbroken set of rings, maybe do one extra in case they get a no rep because if you didn't get all of them, maybe they would disqualify you. And then they're just going to do max thrusters for five minutes. But that's not what the best people do. This goes for my advice too. This is like how to fuck yourself up. We were just talking about people that are uniquely gifted at the movements.

I don't think anybody else should try it. This is the first workout. I don't really mind that Waterpalooza is openly not going to review every video that comes in. But this is the first workout that feels funky on that to me because you could have infinite number of strategies that people use and infinite number of ways that people do not do 45 reps on each movement. Do you remember that one dude who did that Diane video? It was like a sub something Diane. He was like a regional athlete bubble regional athlete it was this had to have been like one of hillar's first like fucking attacks

this is like hillar's first like draw my sword and fucking cut somebody's head off from from wadapalooza qualifier no i don't because he made a video last year about a guy that did the toes to our deadlift at 185 different guy this a different guy. This is a different dude. And it was maybe a year like another year before that. God, I can't remember his fucking name. He had been to regionals a couple times or at least had qualified.

But like he made a Diane video of like maybe it was like a sub one minute Diane, like a 57 second Diane or something. And Hiller was like, this is impossible. And they pulled the video up and it was just like all shit reps. That's what like I would expect out of this workout. Yeah. This is, this is potentially, this is potentially a, um, a judging nightmare.

And when there's going to be such little separation between times on the leaderboard, you're going to have what you like you reasonably have to look at 80 to 100 scores because those are all going to be relevant for how people place and what what happens to the people that finish top 40 or top 20 overall that's a lot of rep counting to come up with we tried to do this for our qualifier for elephant and we ended up coming up with like three or four standardized versions so it was kind of choose your own adventure but like within our parameters. So at least we knew what we were judging, what we were scoring.

I wonder why they wouldn't just say strict handstand pushups for elite and RX tipping for everyone else. I mean, I feel like that would still make it a, it would create more room for separation. But at the same time, there's already like no pulling in this qualifier. I don't know i see this workout too and i i like i immediately start to think about what they're going to do for the team stuff and if they're going to make them very similar if they're going to make them completely different and i see this workout and i'm like athlete one five rounds of nine and nine then athlete two three rounds of 15 15 then athlete 3 45 45 You just don't want to be the last guy to have to go 45-45. But, yeah, it's like so many ways you can do it.

Like you're saying, it seems to be the one that should and needs to be reviewed. All right, next. Do you think anybody is going to go sub-130 on that? That's fast. 60 reps a minute? Yep. I don't know.

Honestly, I feel like it's another workout that Ro could smash and do something like that. Yeah, and she's already. Yeah, she's already first right now after the first three. If I'm her, I look at both of these workouts and I'm stoked. Maybe not the one this much. Sub 130, but I don't know. I don't know about anybody.

How good is Jake? Berman's not signed up for the Sizzy. No. Austin's in the field, though. Hatfield. He's a similar build. Again, I don't know how much to say on the on this workout aside from the fact that it's a pretty similar time domain to the 15 a.m rap pretty similar time domain ish it's over

10 minutes at least um and it's more legs more shoulders i just i don't know to me it just there's a lot of like there's a lack of pulling like generally to me none ish i don't know 60 chest to bar i mean i don't know 150 total bar do you really i don't call that i mean i don't know what do you think no i think for most people they're not coming close to doing five rounds of the 10 8 6 4 2 so that's they're not coming close to doing five rounds of the 10, 8, 6, 4, 2. So they're not coming close to that many toes to bar. But this workout, like this workout, who can keep their dubs unbroken or at least who can take breaks that are purposeful and only take like a one, 1,000 and keep going. I mean, do that math. Just if you go one minute and then another minute for the dumbbell work, that's six rounds,

600 dubs right there. And 25 feet, it's 10 right there. And 25 feet, it's 10 seconds. And another 25 feet, it's 10 seconds. The 15 shoulder overhead probably will have a planned break. I would think that's where people will plan a break, but like it's a lot of grip intensity,

a lot of shoulder fatigue. Yeah. Odd. I think what this is, listen, if you're going to water Palooza guys don't worry if you're bad at muscle ups or legless you're not going to have them because they didn't test it in the qualifier yeah that's the only like i think they're all cool workouts on their own i think they're they're like good workouts tough workouts but that's the hardest thing to me is like

if you're not going to test any strict gymnastics, any high skill gymnastics for a competition that regularly has bar, bar muscle ups, ring muscle ups, leg lifts, strict deficit, handstand pushups. It just seems like you're potentially not getting the best field you could have there.

Now, like counter that with quarterfinals this year, that was essentially all bottlenecked by high skill. Right. So it's interesting. It's like, I had this, I have to have this conversation with some of my athletes like i have young athletes that made it to semifinals because they're very highly skilled but they're not as good at open

style tests and that same sort of person is going to struggle to even come close to a qualification spot for here so it's just totally different set of tests sure would you rather have an athlete that is oh really high skilled but not developed in like that open style grunt work capacity or would you rather have an athlete that has just like a massive gift to hurt a ton but hasn't developed all the skills yet to me it depends on how capable they are developing the skills like are they really athletic and they just haven't done it enough because then i'm taking that guy that's i i have both actually i would say if they're if they're capable and it's just like underdeveloped they haven't had the time they didn't come from a gymnastics background as a female so they just need more time to get stronger i think that one's

fun yeah but i think that if i had to objectively choose, I would rather have the athlete that is strong and skilled that we can work on those other things because there's so many workouts where it's like this binary, can you do this or can you not? And you'll move on if you can. And you're more gated or more limited by whether or not you can get through 15 muscle ups than you are about how fit you're going to be in the rest of the workout. Do you have, do you think it's harder to develop strength and a skill or harder to develop the ability to hurt in an athlete that isn't good at it or doesn't want it as much? I'll let you know in another year.

I'll let myself know if I never do. God, what do you think? I don't know. That's a tough one. It is tough. So, yeah, they're both hard. ever dude god what do you think i don't know it's a it's a tough one it is tough i so yeah they're both hard it's i think it's so i i don't think it's black and white i think it depends on the individual there are people who can like adapt to things so quickly and it's like wow

like teaching this person to do a muscle up is cake or getting this person strong for whatever reason is a whole lot easier than it is for somebody else. People who are like, just not going to pick up on that stuff ever. They're so like, ah, frustratingly unathletic or just not, uh, able to,

able to pick up on things. And then you have athletes where you show them how to hurt bad once. And they're like, Oh my God, they're addicted to it. And then you have, it's like, you're like pulling teeth,

trying to get them to get intensity. Yeah. What do you like jr or what do you what do you have more success with oh no give me give me the guy that's already strong enough or the girl that's already strong enough because getting strong enough for some people is they're still on a 10-year journey to do it and it's like it just strength typically unless you just adapt really well to it takes so much longer. Like I can, I can take someone who's just okay. That's really strong and skilled and like get them to a decent level of capacity or just teach them how to manufacture scores. Cause I think that's like a, uh, a skill and like an idea that people really don't grasp. Like you can take someone that's fitter than me and just give us a workout and

tell us to do it. And I can beat them because I know how to work out. Like sometimes people are fit and then sometimes people are fit and they know what they're doing. But like I can manufacture really good scores because I'm like, okay, that's where he's going to blow up. I'm not going to blow up then because I know better. And I'm just going to like, take this break right here for five seconds and every break on every round is going to be five seconds. And his are going to be unbroken,

unbroken five, seven, nine, 11, 23 seconds. And I'm going to beat him. Like, it's like, it's a, it's a, what kind of coaching do you have around you? What kind of person do you have around you that say, no, no, no, here are your splits. I'm like, well, what do you mean? Like, trust me, these are your splits because on the last round you're going to fall apart. And I just know that because I watch you all the time. I'm so not like that. That's cause you're, are you, are you describing Jason? No, no, no, no, no, no.

I'm talking about a lot of people in my gym that like, do they open and like are really fit or not really, really fit. But I'm like, Hey, just do the toes to barn singles. Like, what do you mean? I can do five. So I was like, yeah, but you're going to do fives through 20 after the row. And then you're going to start resting 15 seconds in between each set of five, just do singles for 50. I promise you, you'll get more reps. Like it's that kind of thing. You know, it's just like self-awareness. It's not about how long you're working in a workout.

It's about how long you're not resting. Have you seen the movie, the Patriot? Yes. The old classic Mel Gibson. I'm sitting in a rocking chair right now. That reminds me of the opening scene to that movie. It's my grandma's old rocking chair and it's so nice but like every time i move it like creaks i feel like i'm just

gonna fucking eat it in a second anyways uh robe maybe tia yeah can we pull up that comment that that one person made about tia that one time do you know i'm talking about yeah i'm not gonna go dig for it okay uh keifer there was this video of tia running on the track and i guess she was um never mind we'll just save it for the chat this is for a different show dude we're a little more you guys do rogue i'll listen in i gotta go pick up lily from school okay all right see you guys see you dude enjoy so bro keeper what athletes do you have doing rogue uh we have four so ricky gerard and alex kazan and then uh bailey martin and kyra milligan so two of them work directly under justin two directly under me but all you, you know, our athletes. Kyra's your girlfriend, right?

Yeah. And then are you guys, are you, is she directly under you or Justin? Me. How does that, how is like coaching your girlfriend? What's it like? It's like working 24 hours a day. Okay. If my wife doesn't go shit, I tell her to do.

It's a, it's been good. It works surprisingly well. We've definitely had our disagreements about it. I'd say that coaching her works better. Coaching her is fine. Sometimes remembering that she is not my only athlete is the challenge. I feel like Lizzie probably is more apt to listen to Will on what workout to do, like on a given day than me. I'll like give her something.

She's like, I'm not doing that. I'm like, okay, that's funny. Um, I don't understand how Tia and Shane, like,

I wonder what their dynamic is. I feel like at this point, are they all business? I guess they're not. They just had a baby, you know, they had to get that thing somehow. What was it like coaching Kyra whenever she was on the Mayhem team?

Like, how did that work, programming for her? It was – I would consider myself a supportive role at that point. Like, I programmed all of her individual stuff when she was home. When she was at Mayhem, if it was, like, a primarily individual training day, I would make adjustments to her training but still try to like keep it within the realm of their stuff so that she was still training with the group. And then the rest of the time is just she was kind of doing her thing with the team. So it was hard in that it's like I was like just on the outside looking in

and I can't give as much input for the whole team as I want, but it's all right. And then is your other athlete Bailey? Yeah. Nice. Yeah. How excited is Ricky other athlete Bailey? Yeah. Nice. Yeah. How excited is Ricky to get back out there? I think like Ricky's going to be shot out of a cannon when he gets there.

He's so stoked. Not only does he just love to compete so much, but I think the fact of what the workouts at Tori or at semifinals and then what the workouts were at the games were like how things turned out. he's just fucking itching to get it back out there and be involved with it I would say yeah go ahead I was just gonna say how ready how ready do you think he's gonna be for Rogue what's your biased pick for him to finish I so what did he finish last year seventh or something I think last year's finish was a combination of a couple of things. One,

a test as heavy as rogue inherently has some things that don't fall into his wheelhouse as much as the games did that season to, if anybody like saw Ricky by the end of the games week or in the weeks after, I think that his return to the games and the amount of energy he expelled through that whole thing really kind of trashed him in terms of what he needed to recover and ramp back up for rogue. So would say like a fresh ricky uh like he's going to be for this that's peaked for it i would be shocked if you were not top three and i would not be surprised at all to see him win it well i think that in every way except for certain movements that affect

his shoulder he's 100 maybe 102 percent ricky and i think if the shoulder can get back to you know 90 by then and he can just manage whatever comes up for that that he's going to be fucking dangerous well can we pull the leaderboards up or are they up or does spin have like a graphic on instagram spin just put out the fields the fields yeah that'd be dope so is it more of a regaining full strength in the shoulder it's not not a matter of, or. Yeah, it's been, he's been working with an awesome PT and obviously like he is one of the few people that gets to kind of operate like a full-time athlete. And so he's essentially just rehab all day, every day for the last few months coming back. But yeah, it's just a little bit of confidence, probably a little bit of, of mobility, a little

bit of just getting strength back. Um, I mean like in the qualifiers when they had to do the overhead squat, that was – I don't think that he had touched anything even close to that overhead yet. And so that was a little bit of a stretch. We didn't really know how qualifiers were going to go. But I think he can – I think if he could get through that, he can get through just about anything.

Stackfield. What are your thoughts on Yelahaste and his finish at the games? Wheelhouse workouts? Or is he like like is that like i feel like i don't know i haven't looked at it deep enough to think but like what comes to mind is like year gi mayeros like seventh place finish or eighth place finish 2021 was it where it's like whoa those were like the perfect workouts for him to finish like that is that like a perfect model of brent right an early person to the scene did incredible in his first he'll be first year has had largely successful years but

some years falls a little bit further back and i think that that just that leans into the idea that if you're that big and that talented in certain areas that you're always going to be a little bit subject to programming and so i would my guess without knowing him super well is that he's going to be a guy that might be in the top 10 one year in the top 2025 other years but will overall have a super successful career like he's incredibly fit and talented and even like the i think the most impressive event for him for me from him was the ring muscle event on the final day right like he held up with the i think he had a top 10 finish in that workout top eight finish i i feel like there wasn't enough to me

there was like no inverted capacity there was that skill like the inverted skill medley and i feel like we missed out a lot on the games like who Who actually can't do handstand push-ups for more than a minute at a time? So with the exception of that. And that affects more than a couple people on the leaderboard probably. Right. On both sides. I'm excited to see him at Rogue. Excited to see Dallin.

Is Tia Claire really? She really has that hyphenated first name. Tia Claire Toomey Orr. She'sated first name? Tia Claire Tumi Orr. She's double hyphened, bro. She's double hyphened up. Double hyphened up, bro. They should make it a slash. I thought Claire was her – I don't know.

I thought it was like – I don't know what I thought. I just didn't think it was Tia Claire was the first name. It's kind of cool. It's a good ring. Do you think this is the most exciting buildup to an offseason event in history? Given that Laura won the games, Tia was out, Tia's coming back for this, and then given the top, Jeff, Roman, Ricky, I mean, Justin's not going, I guess. I would say it probably should be, but I don't know that it's been marketed enough to me for it to be like, Oh crap, this is crazy.

Exciting. And is it going to be a letdown if the programming super strength biased? And it'll be a letdown if the programming is not super, I want to see a very, very well balanced test because of who's in the field. Like I want to see is Tia actually fitter than Laura is Ricky actually fitter than Jeff, not just, Oh,

Jeff won because of the programming or there weren't deficit, strict handstand pushups. So Laura beat Tia. Like I want to, I want it so balanced that we're like, Holy shit. We don't know what to expect for the game season this year. And I,

do we know who's programming it this year? Josh and Spieler. I think Chris again. I think it's Josh and Dan. Dan Bailey? And Katie Henniger. I think that's who it was last year too. I think it's the same group.

No, Chris Spieler programmed it. It was Josh and Spieler and Katie. Oh, it was? I thought so. It 100% was because Josh and Spieler were on site, and I remember seeing them them and they had a few interviews about it um yeah i hope that they recognize like holy shit this is who's in the field let's take advantage and like create some excitement um who do you what do you think uh

do you see katie's post of the circus dumbbell? Oh, I didn't. You know, we trained a lot on that leading into the games. We talked a bunch about something like that coming up too. I'm just curious what format makes sense for that so that it can be heavy enough to be exciting, but not either dangerous or a little bit ridiculous. I don't know that you can do on rep max. Maybe you do some sort of speed ladder.

Oh, a speed ladder would be cool. it's got knurling on the grip i'm i'm zooming in on it now that doesn't it doesn't look like the handle's thicker like they have circus dumbbells on their website i think i call them monster bells or something and they've got a super fat handle these look like they have almost a standard handle the one on the left looks fatter yeah the men's one oh is that what it is is it to men's i guess my assumption when i looked at it was that that was a men's and a woman's and they were they were showing a comparison to what a 50 pound dumbbell size is yeah oh it's like a 100 and a 70 oh dude that would be awesome and super cool let me pull it up. My internet took forever.

Yeah. Those would be sweet. They just look cool. Yeah. Does that change anything about anything or just the aesthetic of it? Depends on the movement, I would say. The size of it, I think, will, too. it depends on the movement i would say the size of it i think will too like if you watch strong men do uh like a shouldered overhead with those dumbbells they almost have to rest ahead of it against their neck and sort of offset their body a little bit because of the size i think it changes

where you hold it changes some of the balance like i don't think that it means you can't train with a regular heavy dumbbell but my guess is that it's going to feel quite a bit different train with a regular heavy dumbbell but my guess is that it's going to feel quite a bit different thoughts on uh tia coming back i love it it's super exciting super exciting do you think it do you think she's a showing to win or do you think there's a legitimate chance that she doesn't win like would she choose to come back if she's not going to win the event and does it matter if she doesn't that i think those are all great questions and ones that i cannot possibly give an accurate answer to i would imagine i don't see her or at least i didn't used to see her as like the kind of mat athlete where she only shows up if she knows she's gonna win and. And if she doesn't, she's pulling out. I used to see her as the athlete who's like, oh, I'm feeling good now.

I want to get back into it. I need to get ready for the season that I'm preparing for. I'm going to go to Rogue. I think she believes she can win. I think she probably can win. I don't think she's a shoo-in to win. I think Laura is probably pooing the pants a little bit like oh shit i won the games tia's coming back what if she's ready to come back and i would imagine that's beneficial

for laura training to go into rogue it probably gets shook by stuff like that really i think maybe but i think like the idea of whether or not somebody's going to be there that's going to be her doesn't cross her mind she just she just trains her ass off and goes out like she's been saying that her goal is to win the games for the last few years and she's been damn close i feel like she's not she's one of the few people who i spend time in the back with or like around her camp and stuff and i feel like she just she's just doing her thing i said this to a few other people i think that she should show up to rogue with her first place medal from the games go up to tia and say hey beat me this weekend i'll give you my i'll give you the fittest on earth title from the games

this past year because you know what's gonna happen or take all if tia wins rogue people are gonna be like i mean people have already said it but it's just gonna be like okay tia was gone but here's what i think tia claire to me is she's ready i think she's one itching to compete because she hasn't competed in a long time and she's a competitor she loves to compete so i don't think it's necessarily a hey i'm ready to go win this thing so i'm gonna go do it if i wasn't ready i wouldn't do it i think she just wants to compete again yeah i think i think with and i'm an idiot but i think that she's a shoe in to win think i think with and i'm an idiot but i think that she's a shoe in to win she was so much fitter than the rest of the field for the past six years

five years four years when she's been dominant that i think she's gonna walk in it may not be an easy win oh dude she's so much fitter than a baby bro but what things do you think she's what she might be limited in top-end strength a little bit. So that's one event, maybe two where it's going to come into play in any significant way. To be honest, I don't know shit about having a baby. I don't either. These are my assumptions of like of all of the things that they're going to test and that she's good at. Yeah, perhaps something like that.

Like a lot of midline or like a joke. It feels like a no-lose situation for her though. If she wins, she wins. If she loses,line or like a joke. It feels like a no-lose situation for her though. If she wins, she wins. If she loses, she just had a baby. And I think that's why she's competing. I feel like they're aware that like, yeah, if I don't win, then like, okay, nobody's thinking twice. Oh, man.

I don't think she's a shoo-in, but I definitely think she can win. And I think that's really exciting. What I'm more excited – I don't think she's a shoo-in, but I definitely think she can win, and I think it's really exciting. What I'm more excited – I don't want to say maybe more, but what I'm maybe equally as excited for is watching Brent at Rogue. Yeah. I think there's a bunch of guys that I'm excited to see. Like, I'm excited to see Tudor Magda at Rogue. He had his rookie year at the Games, didn't make it back this year.

Crazy strong, really talented at certain events. Like, I'm curious to see if you just had a really shitty semis if you was sick if you had a bad prep um it's cool to see guys like that for a second time i do hope that ricky beats adler for roman and i'm really bummed that roman can't compete at rogue because of his foot he is no he is competing oh he is yeah they're all competing oh dude then that's way more exciting than tia laura are you kidding me with all that with all that gossip bro with all that beef they should hit it up too they they are no they need to jeff needs to show up on check-in with a t-shirt that's like something i'm referencing roman's pose like the dirtiest players here or something like that and they just need to ham it up.

I think Roman should make a shirt that just says, Jeff's a pussy. I think that'd be a sick shirt. Dude, these guys have to get better at talking. How funny would it be? Like this year at the games when Dallin showed up with like a Clemson jersey making fun of Jason, he should have just showed up with a shirt that said,

Jason's a pussy. Anyways, I would have thought that was funny. Do you think all else being equal, do you think the guys that came off the games are at a disadvantage compared to the people that did not compete at the games because of time off and preparing?

Maybe just relative to what they're capable of. Not saying that they just relative to relative to what they're capable of not saying that they're going to lose to somebody that came out of the queue i don't and do you think they care i guess i think it depends on the athlete i feel like a lot of athletes approach coming off the games differently maybe um i feel like if i'm if i'm one of these guys and i guess we kind of have the conversation with ricky too and if i'm one of these guys i'm looking at it as like the end of my season is the games and rogue they're the two biggest payouts massive opportunities i would almost rather take a slightly shorter break after the games, get back into a peak, maximize Rogue,

then take a longer time off after that. Because Waterpalooza you can go do on a team. It's a festival. It's fun. Like this is the second biggest payout of the year. It's a massive event that we talk about almost as much as we talk about the games in terms of like what implications this has for who's, who's better than who going into the off season. I think likely games athlete has the advantage

unless you're in a position of like Ricky or Tia, where you should have been at the games and should have been on the podium, but for an odd circumstance you weren't, and now you've had this uninterrupted lead up to Rogue. They definitely advantage Ricky. Like Chandler last year exactly advantage chandler but in every other scenario advantage games athlete because you have the experience of coming off the games disadvantage athlete that qualifies to the

qualifier and hasn't met the games for sure i think um and i have never heard any good shit talk at a competition at a crossfit competition like not even a you suck it's it's gotta be jeff learning words in russian to say to roman but that's not even dude i like when we when this whole thing came out it made me cringe because i'm like if jeff talked to me i would just laugh and be like what you are terrible at talking with like his you are terrible at talking shit with like his i don't know i just i i can't like there's better shit talk at your local pickup basketball court and i wish that's how shit talking was at the games but it's it'll never happen i don't think too many noahs too many coals too many that's not cool guys that's not cool which is fine but i like shit talk

yeah who um is there anybody on the women's side that you're particularly excited to see again like whether that's again or for the first time i would have to pull aside from tia i guess We'd have to pull that list back up. JR wants me to address the wall-facing handstand push-ups in the qualifier, and if that means that we're expecting some sort of deficit strict or wall-facing strict at Rogue. I would hope so. Yeah, me too. And Kotler also put in the comments how they've always had strict handstand

push-ups more often than not, strict deficit in some capacity. He's had strict handstand pushups more often than not. Strict deficit in some capacity. We've got to think too. So they use whatever those deficit blocks were at the games for the Echo Press event. They haven't used them since. It's a rogue product. If they want to push sales at all, they've used parallettes multiple times.

They haven't used these before. It would make a lot of sense to use those. Yeah, and the wall-facing deficit's only been done once in competition at the games i wouldn't be surprised to see it here um i'm excited let's see scroll scroll up a little more scroll scroll scroll um do you think alexis has a chance to uh like repeat the performance she had at the games and threaten for a podium spot. Alexis Raptus? Yeah. To be honest, I'm not that excited. I'm excited to see Tia and Laura, or I'm excited to see how Tia does coming off the baby.

That's what I'm most excited about. Other than that, I'm like, and this is not an offense to how electric the women's field is going to be. I just don't have anything that's like, whoa, that's exciting. Like I am about Roman and Jeff and Ricky coming back. I just think that them, like Roman, you know, and I just think all that beef makes it so exciting. I wish they would, I wish these athletes would like

take the Logan Paul approach and market the fuck out of like these battles. Oh man, that would be great. That would just drive viewership so much yeah i think seeing what alex can do will be fun potential she just has so much potential to see if that keeps climbing will be cool seeing if ariel lowen can continue to stack up performances i mean what she's done in the sport is insane. And so if she can continue to do that, I mean, that's a really cool storyline. But it's cool to see both the fields are so stacked.

It's exciting because I think that's part of what Wadapalooza has become less heavy, top heavy in the individual field. It seems like through the past two years or past year, last year, especially more on the women's side. So to see a bunch of top women competing together will be cool because it seems like less elite women at the top of sport want to compete and during the offseason so both will be super exciting yeah it's i mean the men's side from the qualifier having jason who's obviously been top 10 guy at the games like underperformed

relative to our expectations of the games now we get to see him compete again travis who's obviously been top 10 guy at the games, like underperformed relative to our expectations of the games. Now we get to see him compete again. Travis, who's been there for a long time, Tudor, who's young and up and coming Victor Hoffer, who's probably the most talented, like young athlete out there in his specific realm of the sport, like with the gymnastic stuff.

I think that's a really exciting crew to see come in through the qualifier. Is Colton going? No. Wow. Why not? Do you think he got invited no and he didn't qualify he did the qualifier he just didn't get through the only hard part about rogue is i feel like the field is always really stacked but because sometimes it just

feels like it's more of a showcase rogue showcase and the crowds aren't that packed it always feels like the atmosphere doesn't quite live up to the elite level talent do you guys know last year at dell diamond me and jr were there like that final event was nuts it was good it was it's fun yeah it was sick that i think at that venue yeah yeah it was it was cool i just think because it's not a week long festival there's not as many-long festival there's not as many different i mean there's only 20 people competing in 10 strong men total you just don't get the volume of people and it's a pretty big stadium so it's just hard to pack it is but at the same time all those people there are focused on those 20 100 it's cool i i thought it was cool

um and enough people there to you know you know i was talking to jr when we were there actually i remember this sorry to interrupt uh i had the thought of like i had been going to like a lot of knights games which is like the minor league baseball team here in charlotte and i'm like wow i bet the minor league team that plays in the stadium fills this place out way more than like the 20 best crossfit athletes in the world and And that's hilarious and kind of sad, but the case. No, it's definitely exciting. I'm just more thinking the atmosphere of the night and like Guadalupe Luzo when the elite are going in the field

is not even close to what this is. It just has that atmosphere that levels to with the talent. How many people compete at Guadalupe Luzo over the week? And then if every one of them just brings one person as a friend with them 100 so much yeah yeah i think if these athletes would sell their sell their event a little more i don't know i mean i like it's look at the again i go back to like the logan paul like what do these athletes do to sell their event they're like they a video of them hitting a jerk peter and they're like can't wait for friday or like ready for rogue while like logan paul's calling his opponent like a bitch and like posting a video of him like hitting his head against the thing in the sauna like that's

like i wish they would do stuff like that and then the stadium would be fucking packed and they could probably sell pay-per-view passes to these events i mean i don't know i i wouldn't mind seeing that in crossfit do you think do you think if an athlete decided to take that approach they would get fined or like blacklisted by some of these events or like crossfit maybe as a whole like if roman took the approach where it's like fuck it i'm gonna hype the games up so much just by shitting on Jeff. And he just like once a week or once every two weeks, you don't think CrossFit would care. I don't know.

Like, Hey man, be a good sport. Not, I don't think they would not with Dave in charge. I just like what, what sort of grounds would you even have to do that? Unless he was making death threats or he's coming to his family or

something like what, what guidelines does it, does it fall outside of you know no i guess i guess i just don't know why like remember when when uh pat and brent they all tried like used to try to do that with like the open humiliation yeah like whoever it was a jason carroll was in it as well but they're like was it was like some shit talk but not like great it would be cool to have more of it it would be it would be i don't know i think everybody's just afraid because the most of the media that surrounds things is always like so positive and if somebody says anything controversial they get attacked immediately and because the circle's so small that's it's not a scenario where like all publicity is good publicity it's like you say

something wrong and it's bad publicity in our space it feels like i don't know i think they should just embrace the uh the clicks the views embrace it embrace the thumbnail baby just fucking go off roman once a week make a post just jeff sucks the only reason je Jeff won is because I got hurt. We'll have Ricky start sending out some messages. He could do it. Just no cunt words, dude. It's a cultural thing. It's my favorite word. It's my favorite word.

Maybe top three. Next to front tail, but that's more of a phrase. I learned it recently, so I haven't fully adopted it yet. Ricky's a great shit talker we'll bring back the old videos where he's doing the doing the games workouts from his house while people are doing them there and beating the scores exactly yeah that was i guess i missed that that was like the one person to kind of do something like that but it but i think the reason it goes unnoticed is because it did never come to

fruition matt retired true and intentionally as he came back he kind of wanted and needed to soften the image so that he could be beloved by people in the space again yeah i don't know i think he should have just i i think he did the right thing but i also it would have been cool if he was just like nah fuck all you came back and took third or second or whatever all right ricky people love you now see we can we can love you now go back baby it's time call us cunts and on that note keifer thanks for joining thanks thanks for having me guys thanks everyone for watching uh we'll be back next week