The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Bowen Yang

Episode Date: March 2, 2021

Comedian, writer and actor Bowen Yang joins Andy Richter to discuss growing up with smarty-pants parents, the high school of SNL, and why your goals should be a process.

I'm talking to Bowen Yang today on the three questions. And Bowen, I don't know that I've ever met another Bowen. Have you not? I don't think so. I feel like you come across so many different kinds of people every day in your life. Wow, I guess that's an honor? Should I be honored?

No, no. I mean, it's just a very nice name. It feels like an old West star, you know? Bowen, you know? Bowen, Bowen. It's a Celtic name, apparently, and then it also works phonetically in mandarin chinese and so my parents just kind of chose something that kind of that worked on both

they seem like smarty pants from what my parents have been reading yeah yeah yeah i just wondered because i know you you spent some of your childhood in in Australia, and I wondered if that was like a reason that they picked kind of a, you know, more anglicized name. Yeah, it's like a commonwealthy name, isn't it? But I was only in Australia for six months. Oh, okay. I was born there, but then we moved to Ontario, Canada for a couple of years, and then we moved to Montreal. But even there, even in Canada, I feel like Bowen was like a fairly more common name than it is in the U.S. So there's something about going south of the border.

It also might be because you're young. You know, you're younger. You know how names come into fashion, and then it might be one that just became fashionable because, you know, I never knew any Jadens until recent years. Until 2001. Yes. Until recent years. The Jadens were running amok in the fourth grade for me. I bet.

Jadens everywhere. No, in my children's class is the same thing. So your folks are from mainland China, correct? Yes, yes. And I love this thing that I saw that your dad lived in a grass hut or something. Is that true? It's true. We go and visit it anytime we're back in um inner mongolia which is a misnomer but the province is called inner mongolia but it's the province that's directly south of mongolia but it's in china but um just really arid land um uh my grandparents on his side were um just like plant farmers and he grew up yeah this like really small grass dirt hut that somehow is still there it's in the middle of this giant open field

yeah um there's a there's a well that they made themselves um and it really it's it's kind of crazy to see it i was gonna say isn say, isn't that mind-blowing? Yeah, kind of. Usually there's a few generations between TV star and living in Mud Hut. I guess, I guess. But I feel like maybe this is just a differently scaled thing than like what what anyone has with like the way that they see some intergenerational like change or difference

where they're like oh my my grandparents lived like that that's crazy i mean i feel like it's just i don't know it it's it's just it's kind the same, a different version of that same thing. Yeah, yeah. So you were born in Australia. How long did you live there? That was about six months. Oh, about six months. You said that, yeah.

But then I hadn't gone back until like 2017, like three, four years ago. And it was really interesting to go there where the signage, like the typeface on the signs is the same as it is, like on the highways, is like the exact same typeface as it is in the U.S. It feels like you're kind of in this bizarro, upside-down version of America. Yeah. Yeah, I think the Western world tends to version of America. Yeah. But it's great. Yeah, I think the Western world tends to kind of feel like that. Sure, sure. Yeah.

So, and how long were you in Toronto? Is that where you grew up? I grew up, we were just in, it was called Kingston, Ontario. We were there for like two years, and then we moved to Montreal, and then we were there until I was around eight years old. And then from Montreal, we moved to Denver, then we were there until I was around, uh, eight years old. And then eight. And then from Montreal, we moved to Denver, Colorado, suburban Denver. Um, where my, my dad, um, my dad's company basically like re headquartered there and just kind of,

and then, and then just grew up in Colorado until, uh, college, which was in New York. He, he, your dad's like an engineer of some kind, correct? In mining, I think? Mining explosives, yeah. Wow. Did you get to go and see things get blown up when you'd visit dad at work? I never got to see things get blown up, but I still to this day proofread his papers.

Like he'll write about, like he just needs like grammar checks mechanical checks and all that stuff and i yeah and i just tell him oh you know don't use like you know passive voice here or whatever it's like right that's yeah um but no he it's he like i would never be allowed to like go with him to like some quarry or anything but um but no he's been he's been doing that for a while now and i think i think uh i saw him uh over the summer i took i took a i rolled the dice and went to see my parents and um he was kind of saying how he doesn't plan on retiring which i think is nice but it also makes me sad that like oh this is when it's starting like this is like this is this is when people in the world will no longer retire at all ever and like what's gonna what's what's gonna happen what's what's gonna look like when like people in my generation just don't retire yeah yeah how old is he now he is 63 63 okay yeah And is he not retiring out of necessity or out of just...

Out of just boredom? You know, busy beaverness. Busy beaverness, yeah. He just... He likes his work. He's good. Like, he's good at it. I think he just is like, I am okay with working until I pass away.

And I'm like, I think you should relax a little bit, but you know. Did you grow up among a Chinese community in the different places that you lived? Yeah. And each community, well, specifically just Montreal and Denver,

Sundays were Chinese school, which meant, you know, parents would drop you off at some like, it would always be at some high school that was that sort of rented out the space to us, us as in the Chinese school sort of organization. I didn't really understand how it worked, but we would go there. And then that was kind of the only moment of community that my parents probably sort of felt it was just like because they didn't go to church and so their only kind of communal space gathering place with other chinese people um would be on sundays at these at these

chinese school events was it just like one room? And were you just studying Chinese culture? Were you studying language? It was mostly language. And then, of course, like the curriculums were built around like, oh, you'll learn these vocabulary words while also learning about, you know, the Mid-Autumn Festival. It was just like, it was culture kind of mixed in with the vocab and with them them did you did you like it at the time i hated it i really hated it yeah um it's such a hard language yeah and um but now i mean now in my adult life i am kind of watching it all sort of

slip away from me in real time and i sort of i'm mourning it in real time where i'm like oh i feel it like i'm when i talk to my parents over the phone i feel it sort of i feel myself losing proficiency i guess but it's like i can't communicate with my parents in the way that i used to even as a kid it would be more of like the gap in understanding would be much smaller than it is now where it's like even like trying to tell them about my day feels like such a struggle to me and then they feel the need to switch to english and then it's like and then it just every wire gets crossed and so i don't know i've lately i've been really trying to get back to that and just just refresh it but yeah does it help to like watch

and is it mandarin that you speak it's mandarin yeah yeah it's mandarin and there's plenty and are you about to ask like does it help like watch a tv show or something yeah yeah watch mandarin tv shows and stuff 100 100 and there's plenty of options like netflix has a bunch of like taiwanese teen dramas that i would that are right up my alley I just I feel like but I just feel like Taiwanese Degrassi kind of thing Taiwanese Degrassi yeah yeah exactly I've well I think I've watched every single Degrassi uh ever like ever before I had children I just I mean into adulthood I never knew it when I was a kid but it's just I just love it so much because it's so Canadian. Yeah.

And the kids are like, you get to see them when they go through that phase of like, the boys, like just their nose and ears grow for like a year. Whereas if, I've always felt like if it was, if Degrassi was American, everybody would have to be beautiful. You know, like even the missions would have to be beautiful, know you're right you're right yeah there's something very canadian about watching teen actors grow their cartilage in yeah well now what kind of kid were you growing up i mean were you rambunctious were you a handful were you i was i was, I was a handful, but only at, only at school, um,

would always get, you know, demerited, dinged, whatever for just, um, being chatty, which is,

you know, and, and for me, it's for, for being chatty or, or being like, whatever, because,

because I feel like back then those were the code words for being either like a funny kid or a gay kid and i just i think i had and somehow i happened to be both but moving from canada where i spoke french in school and moving to the u.s uh was this like little quick like inflection point of like figuring out, Oh, how am I going to adapt to this? And how am I going to like ingratiate myself, uh,

to these, to these new kids? Um, it was me just having to like be funny in a way that was just very like, yeah, hammy. And so, um,

kind of very quickly knew that I had to develop the reputation of being like class clowny, which is so mortifying to think about now. But that's kind of like it was it was a survival tactic. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, coming into a new space like that. Yeah. I think that's a common thing.

And people talk about, you know, humor as a as a way to head off bullying. Right. I don't know how much it headed it off, but yeah. It was there and then it got people in my corner at least in some way. But then it really was, and this is such a graceless transition, but it immediately was this thing thing even in the fourth grade where people would be like do you watch this show called snl or do you watch the show called mad tv and i was like no but i've but i've been watching the simpsons since i was in canada like it just it all sort of like all of it congealed around the

same time at like a pretty young age i would say because like no one was really i didn't have parents who like showed me what these things were i i kind of had to seek it out myself where i was like okay well i guess after school i'm gonna go home and watch um you know the five o'clock block syndication block which was um simpson seinfeld drew carrie show and so those were my three and kind of like brought me up to speed with in terms of like what american culture humor discourse even was like i just i kind of like got my education through those things well um and are you a good student at this time too still i i really i i i don't think i was i don't think i was because i think i did the sort of drag performance of being a good student pretty well but in terms of it actually reflecting the most boring drag in the world yes yes scholarly drag um scholastic drag i was not great grade-wise and then that became this like yeah sticking

point thing in our family that i yeah because your mom's a doctor right my mom was yeah she was an ob-gyn um in china and then she couldn't practice when um she moved but um she was still working in medicine and it was we were just a very like analytical family my parents are not particularly funny um culturally like western culturally averse like i mean they like you know did not really care for any like like movies or any like pop culture points or anything like touch like like touchstones i was so so it was like me and my sister sort of my older sister sort of finding all these things on our own but um but yes i mean grades were very important in our house and yeah that would that

for some reason they put they put the grades at odds with me wanting to perform uh as a kid and into high school uh wanting to like do improv and be in the musical and all that stuff yeah yeah yeah yeah i saw that your high school had an improv team we did that's like that from my perspective of starting improv and like well what would what would it have been, about 1989? That's crazy. Sure. That people even knew what the hell it was. And I was in Chicago, which is, you know, improv central.

Yeah. And you still had to say when people, I would, you know, just when I had started and you talk to people in chicago and say you know i'm taking improv classes what's that no no it's like second city i've never you know i know it's there but i've never been you know that right right right i lucked out in early on by just having that there i i mean to be sure it was it was very like it was short form and none of it was like none of it was like io or second and none of it was like del close style improv right it was like scene work and delving into the truth that was making people laugh exactly um but it's still

like i don't know like set some foundation because the the the sponsor of the group the the coach of the group was um this guy who was the um co-director at this theater downtown and so he like also was this person who like shepherded a lot of like comedy stuff into my life where he was like um you should watch this and this and this and like here are all these christopher guest movies these um just i i just kind of like got downloaded at that age and i feel like if i didn't have those people i don't really know how i would have like diverged from this path but um but yeah that was that was a big thing and in high school was truly just me staying up and i i know this sounds so like whatever um but i it was it was staying it was staying up it was watching it was watching

late night it was watching conan it was watching um snl on saturdays but it was like forgoing social things to just watch like comedy i would sit through lano i'd be like yeah whatever this guy and then i would and then conan would come on and be like yes um and then yeah and then like there was like i thought and then i thought i had this full circle moment when um in college we did an improv festival i did college and improv or did improv in college we we flew to la um we got tickets to go see a taping of of conan and then um got to talk to him backstage i think and got to talk to you backstage and it was just you probably don't remember this but it's just me and my college group just asking conan about like

the monorail episode it was just like it's just it was us little dweeby kids just like nerding out over that kind of background in comedy that we all shared. We loved Conan so much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

That's well, that makes one of us. I, I was like, if this is like the peak for me, comedy wise, just to be able to like ask Conan, like,

what about the music man? He loved so much to like, I was like, I was like, this is like all I need to do. And yeah, I mean, just really was that. I don't know if I was precocious in high school, but I just was very granular in my fandom, my admiration for that school of comedy. Was that deep interest and that sort of consuming interest, was it just sort of instinctual? As you're doing it, are you thinking like, I'm going to do something with all this time that I'm spending absorbing all this information?

target or I never like charted any sort of plan or course with it. I was just like, I'm just someone who happens to like comedy. And, and I just kept being told that like, it would never translate to like a career and that it would be so difficult. And like mostly, like mostly from, but not exclusively my parents,

but like mostly my parents would just be like, you should go with something that has some degree of certainty to it, which makes total sense to me still, even now, just like like i don't begrudge them of them saying that to me um but yeah it was just the thing where i was like well you know what i'm just gonna like be someone who watches from the sidelines and and things oh i see what they're doing there or you know this person is coming from that place and um so yeah, I never really placed myself there. But I thought, I'll do this in college. Like, I'd love to do improv in college and like, maybe move to New York where UCB is and like be in that little circle. But yeah.

And you did, right? You went to NYU. Uh-huh. I went to NYU. But I didn't take UCB classes until like after I graduated, Uh-huh. I went to NYU. But I didn't take UCB classes until after I graduated, just because I was very comfortable in my bubble of doing improv exclusively with 19-year-olds. I was like, there's something unappealing to me about taking a class with people from all different walks of life. No, it was just like, I might as well enjoy this last insular moment before I have...

Safety, yeah. I know know which i don't know if that's like wimpish or gross or soft-handed not at all not at all no because especially because and i don't know if you had this instinctually but like showbiz is rough i mean showbiz is really you know you're you're getting in front of people and inviting them to judge you. So why not put that off as long as you can, you know? Right, right, right. Can't you tell my loves are growing? If I may ask about, were you out at this time? Were you out at this time?

I was not because I was out to people in high school. And then my senior year in the spring, my mom found this chat window that was a little too steamy. And then they sort of, in their solutions-oriented way of thinking, were like, well, we have to, this is a problem to us. We have to solve this problem. And so there's this therapist in Colorado Springs, we're going to drive you down once a week. So you talk to him. He's a conversion therapist and did that but the the ultimatum was um you will get to go to nyu where your sister is going now where she can sort of chaperone or just like kind of like keep this watchful eye on you um but in order to do that you have to go to see this therapist but then they also didn't realize that n was just this haven for gay kids.

And so I was like, fine, fine. And then knew, I mean, knew the whole time. It was eight weeks of sessions with this person. And I just knew the whole time that it was quackery. I mean, did you find it hurtful? Or was it just like talking to an idiot kind of stuff? It was talking to an idiot. Because the first like four sessions

were just like pretty standard talk therapy. And I was like, oh, there's nothing, there's nothing like specifically indoctrinating or whatever about this. Just, yeah. And then in the second half, that's when things started to like get like drill into like why you're attracted to people of the same sex

and why that's not natural. But then when I moved to New York for college, my sister was put in this terrible spot where she had to side with my parents and report back to them. And so I kind of had to be in the closet around my sister while also kind of had to be in the closet around my sister while also kind of trying out the idea,

just, just, just, just me being like, well, you know, if I'm going to reinvent myself in college anyway, if that's what anybody,

everybody does in college, like why not just see what this is like? And then spent the first year and a half just telling people I was straight, which was just laughable now. But then as soon as my sister graduated at semester, my sophomore year, she left and I immediately came up to everybody. But yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. Just like all of a sudden there's confetti cannons going off and she's gone. Yeah.

cannons going off and she's gone yeah yeah that is uh that's like not great that i mean conversion therapy aside that's a that's a no-brainer about being not great but to get your sister involved is not great yeah for sure for sure because if anything you know well i'm not i'm not telling anything you don't know. It would have been nice to have her as an ally, you know? For sure. Yeah, for sure. Um,

but I, I feel like, I mean, she's, she's the older of two. There is this like duty bound thing. You have to like hit, especially when it's like coming from your parents and i mean i

mean yeah it's like is that a particularly chinese thing do you think i'm sure yeah probably but i can't really tell i couldn't tell you why and so i i kind of feel like maybe this is a thing that would happen to any family honestly yeah but what but what what is sort of specifically Chinese about this whole situation is that, um, my parents would kind of very like softly remind us, um, we've sacrificed so much. You sacrifice so much for you to be hurt. And they're,

and they're completely correct. Um, to move to a country where they don't speak the language and all that stuff. but then in my case, as the younger of two, um, every now like once every few years my mother would sort of bring up the fact that um in a very like gentle way it was not like to like create any sort of guilt or anything but she was like you know if you if we hadn't have moved from china like you wouldn't have been born with like the one child only policy um so like this is and so like existentially that like really screwed with

me where i was that's pretty heavy yeah yeah a little bit um but yeah she never she never brought that up in a way in a way to like bear down on anything with me it was just me being like oh god like i i guess i have to like honor this like the crazy thing that they did um in order to like have me even like exist uh yeah but yeah well do they feel do they feel now that you have because i mean jesus christ you have yeah i i they yes now now it's great now Now it's really, I, I really couldn't, I wouldn't really change a thing about the way it's, like, sequenced out up to this point. I mean, like, there was a lot of, like, pain, obviously, but I feel realize that like there are certain things that are not that exceptional about my family. I feel like the dynamics are like very, very, very, very common. Yeah.

Did you stay in New York after you graduated? Yeah, I've been here, This is my 13th year here. Wow. Yeah, yeah. We obviously like it. I do, I do. But now there's this thing happening. I mean, like, at least in comedy, I feel,

there is always some exodus to L.A., from New York to L.A. It's never the other way around. And I've reached the part in my whatever, like little cohort of people where everyone's like basically all my friends are in Los Angeles now, which is great and they're happy. But it's basically out of like my little contingent of people. It's just me and my friend who I've also known since college who also works at SNL. She's a writer there, Sudie Green. It's just the two of us.

And she's about to move to LA, I think, in the near future. So I'm like, I might be the only guy left. Yeah. Which is fine, which is great. And I have a great reason to stay. But I do like it. To answer your question, I like it, yes. Yeah.

Well, I mean, have you been, is this your first season? Is this your first season? Or is this your second season? This is my second season as a cast member. I was a writer for one season before I got moved. But have you done that summer in LA kind of thing where you come out here and? I haven't i mean i did it i mean again i did it during the the pandemic summer where um me and sudi were like you know what let's just we're gonna be very safe about this

but um let's just do let's just go to la and like get a house there for like a couple months and we ended up just staying there for one so that's the that's the longest time i've ever sort of spent away from New York. Yeah. Yeah. And that's just away from New York. Not even the longest time I've spent in a particular place, but away from New York, which is kind of scary to me.

Well, during the pandemic, what's there to do? I mean, you can't really have meetings, can you? No. Isn't everything virtual? Everything's virtual. I tried to write. It didn't really, I didn't really have meetings, can you? No. Isn't everything virtual? Everything's virtual. I tried to write. It didn't really – I didn't really get too far. I mean, I allowed myself this past summer to not be beholden to any, like, threshold of work or anything, you know?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think that's good. Yeah, that's good. you know yeah yeah yeah i think that's good yeah that's good because well too it's i think with snl too it you know with the exception of like eddie murphy or something it takes a while oh yeah you know and it takes a while and it's so strange because there's like so many shows so many episodes of snl where it only occurs to me afterwards, like,

Oh, I only saw Melissa Villasenor once in that episode. You know what I mean? There's just, you know, the way that it all, the cards get kind of dealt. You can go through a few weeks of not having much to do.

Oh, I've had those stretches and I anticipate having those stretches going forward. But yeah, it's a job where it only gets clear in hindsight, which might be true for any job. But for me, it's like, but this is just the way that people build out legacies there, I think, is that when you think of a cast member that you love, maybe with the exception of Eddie Murphy, you go, you're only really thinking of the highlight reels. You're not thinking about, oh, they were dead. Like that was a sketch where they didn't really deliver or whatever. You know, like I don't think we think of like SNL cast members in those terms, but I think any cast member will tell you, I mean, not that I've like surveyed them, but like I think most cast member will tell you i mean not that i've like surveyed them but like i think most cast members will tell you that like oh yeah like there are

dark desolate times when you feel like you're not part of the thing um but i was even talking to like um kristin wigg when she hosted over christmas where she was like and she was very encouraging and she was like you know you should just appreciate this job. Even in the bad times, it's the, you should just remember that it's the funnest job in the world because when you're gone, you'll miss it.

And I was like, Oh my God, like to have her say it is like one thing because it's her, but then to have her, to have her also acknowledge that there are bad, hard times, which means that she's had those times is like kind of crazy to me because I'm like, yeah, I thought, I thought you had like as desirable and ideal of a tenure here as anyone

would, would want. But even she probably experienced those moments of like, God, I, I can't hack it or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it, I mean, I don't know how it is now, but I mean, A, yes, it is. A, you're working in Rockefeller Center, which, I mean, I still can't believe that I got to work for seven years in Rockefeller Center and I had an office. But working in that building, and also, too, I mean, because I used to, on Thursdays when there would be the musical guests would rehearse, We used to, on Thursdays when there would be, the musical guests would rehearse, we would just go down the stairwell, one floor, and then pop in the back door of the stage and then stand and watch, fill in the blank, watch Prince, you know, like from 20 feet away with 30 other people and and and just that feeling of if you know it's like wow this is

tv like i'm really i am in tv now and it still you know is thrilling it's still like can't kind of believe it that's that's great because i'm like well i'm like well i will this ever go away i mean i'm like well this feeling will i ever be so like i don't know numb to that reality because i guess because i still wake up and i'm like oh my god i can't believe yeah i can't believe this is it yeah yeah yeah well you're not if that goes away that means you're an asshole maybe i'm an asshole give Maybe I'm an asshole. Give it time. I could become one. Well, now you started,

you kind of, you first crossed my radar by doing lip sync videos. Oh, sure. Uh-huh. On, on the internet. And what,

that was so, what, what, what spurred that on? We just like, just fucking around and in your apartment and basically yeah i mean there was um there was a live show that happens every year in brooklyn called the inner beauty pageant and it's run by this fantastic comedian joe firestone um and

you needed there was like you had to design your own swimsuit and then you also had to come up with a talent it's like a traditional beauty pageant structure and so um i couldn't figure anything out and so i was like you know what i'll lip sync to this like clip of tyra banks yelling at this poor girl oh right we were rooting for you we're all rooting for you and i did that at the show was kind of like truly shocked at like people like because i was like this is such a gimmicky like party tricky thing but okay people like it and then i remember just being sick one day i was home bored fucking around with my camera and just did it and posted it to twitter and i was like oh okay people oh people this is that same like weirdly scaled response

where i'm like oh people like this more than i thought they would which i know sounds like really whatever um yeah dumb but i was just like oh this is interesting and then i just kind of like kept it going and then after a certain point i was like you know what there's something about this there's something about this that i thought i started to get very insecure about it because i was like because for a while i like wasn't really like writing well comedy wise and i was like you know i should maybe rest this thing because it's not generative in the sense of like it's an idea coming from my head and i'm like executing it on the page the stage whatever so i was like i should like maybe just phase this out because it feels like it's contingent on what another person says or does

which i know sounds again very abstract um but that's when i was like you know i'll let me just like rest this and so i haven't really done it since but now uh when you got the job writing on snl um was that did you come to their attention because of those videos i don't think it was because of those videos i i went the pretty traditional route of submitting the tape um with my characters fully thinking they would never they would never hire me i am like fully i do not fit into that i like i don't have there there is no lane for me there yeah um do you think that's just not because because you're asian because it was that it was my sort of sensibility probably being a little too like not family friendly not family friendly but like truly like

not compatible with yes what they do there um do you mean gayer gayer and also just like which is not the same thing but also probably just like i don't know looter and just like yeah dirtier yeah at the time i remember just being very into by the time i got to college i like discovered she'd already been very established at the time but i like discovered sarah silverman and it was just like oh my god like that's like that's sort of like her wheelhouse and is like let me try that on for size and um and she's a genius at it too like that was kind of like the the little neighborhood i was in yeah immediately at the time when i first auditioned but i was like all right well let me put together this tape i did like this like my soul my soul cycle instructor guy i did like um

i did a michiko kakutani impression she like writes reviews for the new york times okay great um we're mutuals on twitter oh you are yeah yeah wow you and michiko is her avatar still that little egg or something i think she like has i can't remember yeah oh that that's that's a big one that's that's a good follow i know i'm like that was i'm impressed but i? Yeah. Because she's smart. So smart. When smart people follow me, I'm like, oh, well. I know. I know. But I just loved that she's only had her picture taken twice in her life.

Yeah. And no one knows what she sounds like. And so I was like, great, this is perfect for me to do an impression of her, quote unquote. Right, right. I get to just make it whatever I want has that been on the show because i don't know that it has not it has not been on the show i don't think there's a place for it but they could i mean you know that that whatever the impression is could be anybody you know i mean if it you know what i mean yeah yeah sure it could be it could be i just feel like it was maybe it was a little mean-spirited

because i was in a scarf and a wig um but like but the voice was butch like this and it's michiko kakutani and i'm gonna go i'm gonna go punch juno diaz in the face it was like that that was the impression um and so i don't i don't know if that there's i don't know that there's a place for it but i but but but this but like i like i like did this because I was truly like, I was treating the tape as a bit. I was like, there's no way this is ever going to like move past the first stage gate or whatever. And so, but I mean, I thank goodness for it because I think it was a very true to me tape. And so it made it to them. And then, and then I got the showcase and then i got the screen test and

um so it happened through that route and then kept coming back in and kept being asked to do new stuff and then um they put me on hold for a year came back the next year did it again then they were like hmm not cast but maybe writer i was like so happy to do it um and then yeah and then just kind of started, started there. Can't you tell my loves are growing? Was the, the year that you got hired as a writer, was that the first time that you had made your complete living in show business? Yeah, it was. Um, I had just left my day job as um just doing like graphic marketing design like a few months before because at that point i had already

done the audition twice and i already i didn't but then i kept my day job for a year yeah but like at that but i spent that whole year being like well if i got to that if i if i got that far in the snl audition process hopefully that means I can strike out on my own and not have to worry about this and just see. But then it timed out very, just very well where I left my job and then three months later got hired to do SNL. How did your folks feel about that? When you could say, look at me, I'm making a living doing this stuff. I think they were very happy. But it also, like, they hit a wall with understanding, like, what it really meant.

I was going to say, they might not understand, yeah. Yeah. Because the first moment of, like, my parents kind of expressing any kind of relief was when um i did this really quick bit with my um my best friend um matt rogers and we did this really quick bit on on fallon um and then the next day my mom went into work and all of her co-workers like we saw bowen on tv last night and that was when she was like oh like it took like some mirroring from other people to be like your son is doing so well for her to be like i guess my son is doing okay yeah um and that was the same summer as that last um round of snl

auditions and so that leading into getting hired was like hopefully clarifying for them where they were like okay he'll be okay but then i i got hired for SNL. My dad texts me. He goes, does this mean you're moving to LA? Like, where does the show take, like, where does the show work out of? And I was like, it's New York. And, but yeah. But ever since, I mean,

since then they've come to the show. Yeah. A couple times. Do they watch weekly? They watch weekly. My dad will send me very, I'll read one now. He'll send very adorably worded texts. He goes, yesterday he texted me,

in the show, you were confident, firm, and competent. And I said, thank you, dad. It was very sweet. It's like a divorce attorney or something it's a divorce attorney um it's it's a roofer it's a roofer yeah yeah yeah it's it's a nice like review on i don't know next door or like some like yeah yeah when when you started snl i mean do you feel uh i mean i you know i feel like i went to the same high school but they were a different class or something sure and so and i have a so many friends that have worked there and stuff and over the years it has been kind of

and not you know of course it there were years when it was very hostile place for women to work. And I think at times it's been a hostile place for people of color to work, you know, you know, with varying degrees. Something that has always struck me about the way that that show is run. And that was and I you know, and that the the opinion I formed was based on the show that that show is run and that was and i you know and that the the opinion i formed was based on the the show that i was working on you know on late night which is it's a different thing you know it's a different kind of thing um because you know whereas you guys come up with x amount of sketches for a week and then you have to winnow them down. Ours are more like we got a whole week that we sprinkle them out through. So there's just kind of we're all sitting in a room thinking of sketches, but they're just the structure of ours tends to

lend itself to a more all for one, one for all kind of atmosphere. Whereas SNL, especially I know people that were times where it felt very insular and that it was different little camps working against each other. And did you have any idea of that? Like just in terms of writing, like we're over here writing this and there's a competition among writing pods right because you want to get your stuff on that's no i mean i i wasn't aware of it um going in but i mean the way you just described it is is is perfect because you very quickly learn like the tuesday night feeling of watching like doors get closed and like hearing people like

giggle inside like it's just this like chilling thing that like everyone like it's it's this just ever it's just it's like a rite of passage for anyone who starts working there whether you're a writer or a cast member um where you realize oh okay i better start i don't know jockeying for some involvement. Like, I better start, like, playing the social game of, like, knowing which writers I work well with. And yeah, like, the pod structure is this, like, thing that, like, is part of the way that things are structured there,

but no one tells you that. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, it's still taking a lot of getting used to. I feel like, I mean, just, I do have to remind myself, oh, you're only in your second year as a cast member. And so this is still, you're still on, like, the learning curve in the upswing, or, you know, like, on, like, you're still, you haven't crested the hill yet.

But then, like, every now and then I'll talk to people who work on Seth, like, you know, Amber Ruffin or like Jenny Hagel and, um, Karen Chi. And, and I'm just like,

Oh, like I feel like they also say that it's, it's more of an, um, all for one kind of thing or no one for all. Is that what you're saying? All for one, one for all.

Yeah, sure, sure, sure. Three Musketeers. Three Musketeers. I, I'm like, Oh, I, I envy that, but I also don't think I could do it because I've been so conditioned to work in this way at SNL. say the way that the way the the sort of procedural structure of the creative process at snl seems

to be you know seems at times working against itself sure but if i were in charge of putting on a show that had to be written in a week i don't know how the fuck else i would do it right because you can't have everybody gang write every sketch no no it would you it would take three weeks you know yeah yeah yeah um you did a couple weeks ago or was it a couple weeks ago that you did the annie lebowitz oh yeah friendly yeah yeah yeah or friendly blitz um and and it seemed to pop like did you notice that kind of being uh i did i but i didn't notice that it popped until i was talking to sudi so i covered that with sudi green and a dresden and

at least between me and sudi like we we talked about it two nights ago where we didn't realize what it was not what it was but we didn't realize like the way that it played until like two to three days after the fact yeah because you i mean you just really have no presence or any mindful like awareness of like what's happening in the moment there right and i think that's and on sunday you're too tired to check, probably. Yeah, exactly. Because honestly, the lead up to that update piece was so stressful for me. Because the note from Lauren was, we can't make it too mean. And I was like, of course, of course, of course. And in the first draft draft we even were very

compassionate i don't know you can't you can't make it too mean because i have to talk to her on a regular it was it was very clear to me i was like okay lauren i get it she's your friend um but but i mean but like it was but it was also about like me like wanting to like honor her because she i mean when i mean me moving to new york coincided with me like finding out who she was and reading her books yeah uh and then watching this the first scorsese documentary that came out um in like 2010 i think and i just i love her yeah which i don't know i don't know why i bring it up i just i just i guess it's just like you are always under intense amount of pressure even though the end result is you um appearing to have fun have you but have you derived pleasure from knowing that it popped yes i have but yeah it but

what's remarkable to me is that i did not know that it popped until way after the fact yeah and and that's like the weird disconnect is not knowing how something does until like 48 hours after it happens that's you know getting something to pop like that is part of the process of yeah of you know graduating the high school of snl you know you have to make those indelible because there's so many people that have gone through there who are amazingly talented people who just, they never get that thing that really pops. They're on for three seasons. They come and go and people kind of like, oh yeah, I remember that guy. And then you see them in movies and stuff and TV shows. But I mean, that is the way. Is that the first thing you felt

like that really kind of popped like that from snl the first thing the first thing i felt that really pumped was i'm very very lucky that it came to term was uh my second show as a cast member there um we wrote this other update character who is like the minister of trade for china um and that felt like that like i remember doing that and being like oh wow i like really had fun doing that and i i think people liked it and then like it seemed like the response again like two days later yeah um was very positive. And I thought, wow, like I am really glad that I just like put, I don't know, planted that root early on

because then it's, I hope, I think what it did was it gave me the confidence to just like step out or just at least like do different things because in some ways it was the expected thing of me to do, which was to play an asian person yeah um and the the what the reason why the fran thing is kind of special to me is because um is because i i feel like i feel like people didn't want to kill me for portraying a jewish

lesbian and i was like the fact that like people aren't upset about this yeah um is is like a win for me which is not like which is not it's progress too oh sure sure really that you know that an asian man can play a jewish lesbian on snl and it not be where everyone's like look at that asian man playing yeah yeah it's just yeah well that was funny you know sure sure yeah yeah well and that's not to say that like the the measure of success for me is to be like did i piss anyone off but it's just that um it was just it was just a nice thing to be like okay like now i like now i get to like i don't know sort of add texture to like other stuff that i try to do i mean i'm i mean i'm gonna like i'm sure as soon as i get off this call like i'm

gonna for the next two seasons have no good ideas no i don't think that's gonna happen well here you you spoke about it the uh the future we'll move on to that because, I mean, is there some plan? Is there some sort of Bo and Yang, you know, plan for domination of comedy and show business? This is like the honest answer is there isn't. Yeah. And I think that's okay. Oh, absolutely, it's okay. yeah and i think that's okay there's oh the absolutely it's okay remaining open to the next thing that comes along and knowing that to you know to to do it whether that's a movie in

the summertime or whether it's you know you know it's whether it's a relationship whether it's you know to adopt a child and then uh you know go live on a tugboat you know it's, you know, go live on a tugboat, you know? Yeah. It's like, you know, it's just remaining all the, you know, open to all those things is the main thing. So that's good, though. Yeah. But do you have like a dream? Like, do you want to, is there a movie that you think like, oh, I want to do that movie or oh, I want to. There's a movie that I've been trying to break for the last like two and a half years that I've been telling everybody at this point. And they're just like,

okay, well, if you don't make it, then someone else will, because you've, you've, you've given everybody a free idea. But,

um, I mean, the, the original idea was I want, I want to just be in a crime comedy. That's it. I just want to, you know,

we wrote this idea. I had this idea where I'm like the son of a triad boss who has to like turn the mob front restaurant into like a queer nightclub. I want, there's something about a crime film that feels very essential to like my upbringing in terms of movies, because it was like a lot of Asian cinema is like deals with like underbelly criminal stuff. And,

and it like, I don't know. And it would just be fun because it would be something that like is stretches, like, like stretches me as a performer. And like, it's, I don't know if it's expected of me.

That's, that's, but that's honestly the only thing because I, it's like, it was, it's like I was saying earlier, like the, I've had multiple like moments where I, where I've gone, oh, it could just all be taken away from me after this and I would be fine with it.

Like, meeting, honestly, meeting Conan felt like the peak. And then getting the audition, getting the screen test for SNL felt like the peak. It felt like, you know what? If I don't get this, I'll always be able to say that I got to audition in front of Warren Michaels. I don't know. I feel like I've, I've operated. I've operated under this principle of like, just,

just, I don't know. Just like, don't, don't plan on it. It's healthy. First of all, I will tell you as someone who's been doing this a while it's

healthy one of the early lessons that i learned because i saw people whose ambition and drive and goal was a thing or a position or a job and they get it and then they're they're they're still producing a factory producing all this gotta move move forward. Got to get it, get it, got to, got to stress. Yep. And,

and it, it fucks them up. And so like early on, I realized that your goal should be a process. Your goal should just be getting better, you know, and getting better. And,

and honestly, a huge one is having more fun. Like, you know, and getting better. And, and honestly, a huge one is having more fun. Like, you know, like, because the healthiest way to do this, in my opinion, is for the work stuff.

As you go on, it matters less and less and less and the particulars of it. And, and also too, because, uh, there's a lot of bullshit in show business and there's a lot of phonies and there's a lot of like gross stuff, just gross stuff. So it's,

it's the life that you build outside of it that really matters. And then it's the, the way that you can sort of game the system by also have be making money doing this thing that's fun and that you love doing and that's kind of easy because it's so much fun i mean there's work involved and there's of course stress involved but it's fun and if you just pursue it as fun and not just and is it if it matters less and less as you go on it that's the best, I think. I think that's it. I love that you say that the goal should be a process.

And the fun thing is like what Kristen said to me. She was like, you know, she was like, you just have to remember this is the most fun job in the world. Yeah. And that's her biggest like thematic thing of her that she can sort of summarize her experience with, where it's like, this was fun, and you should have fun. And the thing about working at SNL that I hope people who

will work there in the future will realize is that it's a job where nothing is in your control, except the process, except the work. But everything else after that is not in your control whatsoever and it feels kind of futile not futile but it feels like this thing that attaches you to an outcome if you start to like put put like specific goal if your goal is an

outcome and not a process that's perfect um well is there anything you know with the where you are now you're kind of you know you're still sort of like setting out on the journey are there things that have surprised you i mean are there things like do you tell yourself are are there sort of things that you tell yourself that you know as just advice for to yourself to get along and to continue on? Ugh. The only thing that I can think of, I mean, now, honestly, I'm not just saying this, but I feel like the thing that I will remember for a while now is you saying, like, you know, goals should be a process. I was you saying like,

you know, goals should be a process, but I, but the, but the other thing that's like really stuck with me is, um, I think Tony Hale said this in an interview where he was like, where someone was asking him, yo,

like what's your best advice on getting into, um, comedy or just like showbiz. Uh, and he said, um, instead of thinking of investing in a career or thinking in terms of investing in a career by like doing this and this and this and this, like instead you should think of it in terms of investing in a career or thinking in terms of investing in a career by like doing this and this and this and this,

like instead you should think of it in terms of investing in a community where you just kind of take care of the people in your circle who are also trying to do the same thing. He's right. He's right. And it's what appeals to me about the, the whole like late night structure of it with the, in terms of the writing where it's like, oh what it's what appeals to me about the the whole like late night structure of it with in terms of the writing where it's like oh it's it's about like the well-being of the unit yeah

and it sounds so chummy but i'm just like but i mean that's what's sort of seen me through everything so far is that like i had friends coming up in comedy whether it was in college or or you know doing you know these little one-off shows i would produce in brooklyn um we've always just like checked in with each other at times that felt very meaningful and that's the thing that like has almost nothing to do with comedy yeah um but it just has to do with everyone looking out for one another. That's, that's, that's it.

That's like the big, that's the biggest thing that I've like come away with. Yeah. Like, I think of, I just think of it as like, you're in this group of people who are lucky enough to be funny. You know,

like, you know, like, cause so many of us, like, you don't, it's very hard there are the occasional people that kind of learn how to be funny and work hard at being funny and but then but most of us were just kind of like you said smart asses in school who were just doing it because they like you know because it like it felt good. And because, you know, just to make people laugh is just one of the most wonderful feelings

in the world. And then you get in with a group of them and then you realize, like, we're all getting paid to do this. So we're like, you know, just the rarefied air that you get to be in. It just seems like a crime to be in it for yourself oh yeah yeah yeah and i've honestly gotten myself in such dark mental places by only thinking in terms of well what does this mean for like what am i getting out of it yeah like what is the individualistic thing like the framework around this when like it never serves me to think of it in that way.

Yeah. So yeah, yeah. And most of the people, honestly, most of the people that that stuff is really important to are profoundly, they're the most profoundly unhappy people that I know. Yeah, yeah. Well, Belen, I am such

a fan of your work, and I appreciate you so much taking the time to be on the show. And I look forward to seeing your world domination. Oh, Andy. Your upcoming chokehold on entertainment and culture. Thank you. culture. Thank you. I mean, this was a very, I so looked forward to this. And I mean, you've really been a really phenomenal presence in my upbringing comedy-wise. So this is really special. That's wonderful to hear. I appreciate it. And I appreciate all of you for listening.

Thank you very much. And we will be back next week with more three questions I've got a big big love for you The Three Questions with Andy Richter is a Team Coco and Your Wolf production It is produced by Lane Gerbig engineered by Marina Pice and talent produced by Galitza Hayek

The associate producer is Jen Samples supervising producer Aaron Blair and executive producers Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Earwolf. Make sure to rate and review The Three Questions with Andy Richter on Apple Podcasts. Can't you tell my loves are growing? This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf.