The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Brett Gelman

Episode Date: October 4, 2022

Brett Gelman joins Andy Richter to talk about doing both comedy and drama, being an anxious child, being a Dead Head, and more.

hi everybody i'm andy richter uh you're listening to the three questions and i've got brett gellman on today how about that isn't that exciting exciting um i uh you you are soaking up all the work you are in everything these days oh my god i'm glad to hear you say that you know why it doesn't feel yeah it never feels like that does it no no no not at all i mean i feel very grateful and i intellectually know that but i yeah you know the trauma of not having worked for so long and the fear of never working again oh yes is always creeping in yeah yeah no i for me the the big turning point was that it was like some tom clancy movie on cable at where you play like a terrorist and i was so happy to see you and like because it's like there's no comedy in

that movie whatsoever you know and because usually you know like you're in things where it's kind of fun you know like you you've been in some great stuff where just for drama but mostly people get you because you're i would you say you're essentially a comedian i mean because i kind of feel i would say that yeah i mean that's my roots you know i'm trained in all you know in all things theater and acting um and i definitely i strive to do more and more drama but i mean i can't i can't you're either funny or you're not yes and so and so if if you're funny it's really ridiculous not to utilize that and to abandon that completely but like i i do i do love to do drama and i love that i'm getting the chance to do more of that. And I want to do more of that, but I never want to abandon comedy. And up to this point,

even things that I've done for the most part that have drama in them, like lemon or fleabag, there's still a lot of, there's still comedies. Oh yeah. I mean, like fleabag, I feel that's a comedy. Like that whole thing is, you know, I mean, it's,ag, I feel that's a comedy like that whole thing. Is it? You know, I mean, it's it's meant to be. I mean, there's absurdist comedy that isn't full of jokes, you know, that is just about the human condition, but it's supposed to be entertaining in the way that, you know, a joke is. It's, you know, like I always felt like breaking bad is a comedy i in my opinion i just because it's an absurd situation brian cranston is a comic actor like there's i don't

i can't see him in things without seeing him be comic i mean that's not entirely true because like there was that i can't remember i can never remember the names of anything but like there was a oh it was a mini an amazing miniseries where he played the father of a kid that gets caught yeah oh yeah remember that he's like the new orleans yes the judge yeah and that wasn't funny you know like there was nothing funny about that check it out and you'll see what I mean about it not being funny. But there was so much Walter White to me that was just hilarious. Yeah, no, totally. I mean, Breaking Bad, like The Sopranos, is if you give that log line, it's a total comedic concept.

Right, right, absolutely. Nerdy school teacher gets cancer and decides to start selling meth and becomes the biggest meth dealer yes yes the country yes yeah you know mob boss has a panic attack and starts seeing a psychiatrist while trying to keep his power right right right yeah exactly yeah yeah yeah and both of those yeah both of those shows, I mean, are very funny. And that's an amazing thing when you get to, when you're sort of existing in that gray. Yeah, yeah. That's phenomenal.

Do you feel like a palpable difference, generally speaking, between being on a drama set and being on a comedy set? being on a drama set and being on a comedy set? I think that the difference is that in comedy, comedy and drama are harder in different ways. Comedy, you have to do everything that you're doing in drama, but still have a technical state of mind at some point in your brain to be delivering timing jokes delete you know the way you deliver something and drama you can abandon all of that for the most part you know depending on i mean i think there's maybe some people that you work with that have a distinct style and drama

that you would need to technically adhere to but with that the difficult thing about that is just plunging into right you know however you do it to get there pain uh right right right but you're still plunging into pain and comedy you're still doing that yeah i mean but i think for commit think for people who are comedically inclined, there is also like as you're plunging, you're also simultaneously releasing. Yeah. And that's really hard to do. I mean, to have like an ironic state of mind, it's just a particular state of mind that I guess like, I'm not going to say is easy, but it's not like, it's what you and I are built to do. It's what you and I are built to do. Am I just saying obvious things here?

No, no, not at all. Because that question of releasing it and it is, you know, if, okay, yeah, it's pain or it's embarrassment or it's frustration. pain or it's embarrassment or it's frustration and and on a comedy set you are releasing it because because to me it was always like i always felt the difference was was because i haven't done a lot of drama stuff but generally speaking they're like not as fun like they're like there's a seriousness you know that that especially like with the text it's like a little bit more because, you know, I fuck around. And so it's like when you have to go through things six times for camera blocking to have fun with it, just to kind of keep the ball, you know, like, you know, like a balloon that you're batting around in the air. So, you know, you change it up, you make little jokes, keep people laughing on the set. batting around in the air.

So, you know, you change it up, you make little jokes, keep people laughing on the set. And I felt sometimes that drama like, no, no, no, don't do that. Cause everybody's trying to pull in, you know? And I don't know, it might just be my asshole way. Well, I think like a drama thing, there's not an overall agreement of how to do a drama. You know, dramatic actors all have a different process you have some dramatic actors who will joke around between tight right right you know if even if they're doing an intensely

dark scene yeah or or they'll mostly joke around and if something is really intense they're like hey sorry i gotta focus a little bit to like just get here and then you got your people who are like in a corner all day when they're not acting which is uh uh their process yeah hey there's great people who do that and who are who are nice too who do oh yeah yeah yeah hating i know what you mean yeah but i mean i that i just feel like oh that's not that can can't be fun. I'm doing something right now. I'm on a project. I'm doing this show with Alma Harrell, who did Honey Boy, and with Natalie Portman.

Oh, yeah. And that's a very free set. I mean, that's very free. But instead of being free with jokes, it's being free with all these feelings and making it a mess, jokes it's being free with like all these feelings and making it a mess you know making it messy in that uh cassavetes type way you know i think you know um and everybody likes to talk about cassavetes when we talk about improvisational improv but i think that alma is somebody who really uh her work deserves that you know deserves to be put in that category.

And because she's, she's a genius and, and yeah, working with the actors on that, they're like incredible, uh, but they're not, nobody's really in a corner.

They're really like, you know, it's like dealing with the character and the circumstances of that and doing what you need to get into that. And sometimes, no, sometimes you gotta but it's fun it's also fun to like get into i have found the fun in getting into a state yeah yeah yeah but i like a procedural to me that would be like maybe not so fun when you're providing

dramatic exposition yes you're doing something where you can really like dive into a character and go fucking nuts and at that point maybe something funny like the director that and your collaborators are like something funny might come out of this yeah maybe not yeah and so it's just full freedom to me like that's that's great drama. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because sometimes, like, comedy can be stodgy, too, where there's no freedom in that. And you're like, Jesus, these jokes aren't funny, and we're having to stay to it. Absolutely. I've been in room.

I've been worked on TV shows out here where in the writer's room, there was the feeling of quit screwing around, everybody. We got to write comedy. You know, it's like oh that's not i don't know i as much as i might not know everything but i know that that's not really a great way to do it if you really want it to be funny yeah being on that sitcom set where you have the writers and it's a single cam yeah and you have the writers laughing hysterically and jokes whether they work or not and being like guys you're not gonna be in the living room of these people and and maybe they'll like it should be, regardless of what's happening in front of them on set or on stage, then that's a bad environment to be in. And I've been lucky to,

and regardless of what I work with, I'm, you know, the people who are leading those shows or those films are not like that for the most part, at least in the last like six years, you know, I'm,

I'm some, I'm grateful for that. Yeah. Yeah. You've got, you've, you get to do a lot of fun stuff. It's really it's really enviable. Thank you. To be blunt. Yeah. I mean, to hear you say that. I mean, like, you know, I've really I've always really admired you a lot.

I think. Oh, thank you. You know, I mean, like the first time I think the first time I saw you was Cabin Boy. Yeah, probably. And that's a fully realized character. It's funny to hear you talk because I'm like, oh, that's like I know. Like, I look at them like Andy knows what that guy had for breakfast this morning. Even if you didn't think that thought like it's just like it was such a character of like it was so vulnerable, you know. It was such a character of like, it was so vulnerable, you know? Yeah, that was, playing the dumb man child, that was, I was called on for that a lot. I still am. And I mean, and I'm happy to do it because it's a never ending font of good times. Yeah. And I'm the guy, I always play the guy. You probably not going to want to hang out with whether he's a bad guy or a

good guy. Yeah. I got to hang out with him a little too much energy, just a little too much. Kind of like me. Kind of like how I really am. Now, were you that,

have you been that way like now i'm see i i had forgotten this too i i'd known it at one point but you and i are both from the chicagoland area um yeah you're from highland park and you're from there too and you you know came up in the chicago scene and i came up in the new york scene but that was a set. I mean, it was completely influenced by the Chicago scene. Right, right. It was a Chicago scene in New York. You know, we were learning Chicago comedy

and improvisational values. We just happened to be in New York City. And that was from, you know, learning by watching you and everybody and, you know, taking classes and performing there. Back. Were you a funny, incorrigible type of kid in Illinois growing up? I think like I was more of a weird, desperate, strange, highly sensitive. We can laugh about it now.

Yeah, because I'm all good now. I'm Mr. Balance. No, I didn't already do at least two things that I highly regret today. Yeah, no, I was a weirdo. I was very strange. And I wasn't like somebody who was proud of being strange. Yeah, wanted to be popular. I wanted to be normal. It just it just wasn't gonna happen. And everybody around me constantly reminded me of that. And in one way, I'm like, Oh, my God, I was abused. And in another way, I like oh my god i was abused and in another way i was like maybe i was just like so annoying and horrible and like deserved to like get like no no no no i mean well how did now how do your parents deal with this you know when as you're as a kid like do they know that i think my parents were concerned and you know also were crazy in their own way and lacked boundaries i mean like a very typical like eastern european chicago jewish household not a lot of like emotional control and boundaries yeah but deep but deep loyalty deep loyalty yeah yeah and uh and they were always support you know i was like in my mother's eyes i

was i think always right and in my father's eyes i think he was like i'm not even gonna go there was like i'm not even gonna go there just kind of like like if you that's that's your department kid you worry about all that all that stuff out of the house yeah yeah yeah and he was an old school dad and he was kind of like shut down and like i think a lot of the time being like how'd i get here is this what i want but not, not having the tools to ask those questions in a healthy way. Kind of just letting those questions eat at him as the years went by. Yeah. The unexamined life is still good for a few yucks. Yeah.

Oh, my God. I know. Especially in this day and age. Yeah. There's really a lot of people that really still believe in that. And I'm jealous of them in a way. Well, yeah, I guess because it is like, and there is a differentiation because you don't have any kids, right? No, no, I don't.

I don't. I want to. I plan on that. It's not a stance. It's just, yeah. No, I don't. I want to. I plan on that like it's such a night and day difference in terms of the involvement of parents in their children's lives now to the point of, I mean, you know, sometimes the pendulum has swung too far. And there are parents that are far too involved in their kids. But I mean, the notion of like we're not having kids go up through through grade school and there'd be the parent night and they'd sit there and tell me what kind of math they were learning.

I would always just be like, why are you telling, this is between you and the kid. Like, I don't want to know about this, you know? And I mean, I don't even know that, I don't even know that, I think maybe like my mom went to those things. And even then she was probably bored

because I was, homework, schoolwork, I was on my own you know it was like yeah you know you probably don't want she's do you no well you better work a little harder okay you know that was the extent of it that was the extent of it and with my kids it's you know tutors and educational psychologists and you know so they can excel as much as they can and i don't know you know i mean it's great in some ways but it's also i i mean i i wonder sometimes if it's too much i basically i guess i don't know why i'm telling you that but uh no no i mean i'm up no i'm always i mean i'm fascinated, I, you know, of course have,

there's a lot of people in my life with kids. I mean, it's wild. I mean, I have, me and my girlfriend have two dogs and don't worry, I'm not going to get into the whole thing of comparing being a dog parent to a human parent. Because, you know, human people with children, they love that when dog owners do that. Well, you'd have to feed them and pick up their poop.

You know, there is a similarity. But I do think I'm like, I definitely like care about like how I behave around my dogs more probably than my father cared about how he behaved around me. Oh, my God. I definitely do that. oh my god yeah i definitely like and that my dad was was a great dad in a lot of ways yeah yeah he definitely wasn't like oh how is my anger over this crumb on the floor affecting my son's level of anxiety yeah yeah yeah yeah so i'm definitely like more concerned about yeah yeah and so i'm imagine when i do have kids that yeah it'll be along those lines but i think i it's i guess it's like a push and pull right some days you're like we're diving in and then other days

you're like whoa let's ease back right let's yeah let's well yeah and also there's other day there are days too where it's like look i'm just gonna try and hang out in the background until dinner time you know like i'm just gonna you know like i'm not gonna get that involved and you know and you can there's days when that's really really necessary too um but yeah you're right the the anger too the harnessing your anger i i learned that throughout my fatherhood um i i i used to just be this angry fucking guy sometimes and i and i would say like well that's what dads are and it's like yeah but why why does it you know like you know all that shit you don't like about yourself don't you think

maybe it's because that all that screaming about nothing that you grew up with oh yeah that probably that probably did cause some issues i should maybe lay off the screaming um no it's very disturbing when i feel that i'm like channeling my parents flaws yes in a very a very i mean almost like mirroring like like they're possessing me it feels like yes it's it's one of the most disturbing feelings it's it's just plain icky. Like when I hear myself and I hear my mom or I hear my dad, it is gross. It's just yuck. What am I doing? I can feel a facial expression that my father had on my face and be like, ooh, let's get this out of here. It's just, yeah, it's very scary because that's one's one of my i guess one of the fears right that we

become our parents and that we just continue along the path of their flaw don't learn from their mistakes just make the mistakes all over again yes can't you tell my loves are growing well how does um an anxious kid hungry for acceptance get into acting like you know yeah the reject-a-thon of acting. I think it was, yeah. No, I mean, I saw A Night at the Opera when I was six years old. I rented the video from the public library. And then I just got obsessed with comedy. I got obsessed with

Mel Brooks, the original SNL cast. All this, the oldies, yeah. Yeah, Eddie, you know, Murphy, Peter Sellers, and then a little bit older Monty Python. And,

uh, also like the whole cast of the, of the Brooks movies. I, you know, to this day, I think are some of the greatest, I mean,

even Gene Wilder aside, who to me is, you know, uh, a gold standard. I mean, people like Malin Kahn, Harvey Korman, and Cloris Leachman, and Dom DeLuise, and Marty Feldman, and Kenneth Mars. That whole company really, I was like, that's how I want to act.

That's how I want to act right there. And then seeing Gilda, and Bill Murray, Belushi, Ackroyd, John Candy. You know? Yep. gilda and bill murray belushi akroyd john candy you know yeah uh yeah it just was like it was wanting to be these people and i think that that was very much in a fantasy place and it took me a while of like going to theater camp i mean it was even up until high school where i was like am i funny i don't even know if I am funny. And then in high school, I started to get, I think, I mean, really what happened was I just was so angry that I started to filter that through being funny. And there was sort of a, I think it's when you, I think anger is one of the things, one

of the positivities of anger is that it really can help you in moments abandon, at least even if you're in denial about it, not caring what people think of you. And that's the greatest training in comedy and acting is going up on stage. I mean, how many shows have we done i mean i used to do shows at ucb all the time uh and that started and i think that trend sort of started in high school of like let me see how much i can make these people hate me right now in a way there were those moments yeah was there was it a conscious thing or would it just kind of come out as an instinctual thing? I think it was being angry at the audience and being fed up with like trying to be funny and bombing.

Just being like, well, you know what? It was like it was like seeing the audience as the bully. And then that one day be like, you know what? Fuck you. Fuck you. You know, I'm crazy. I'm not even funny. I'm crazy. I i'm gonna kick your ass

like that's what uh i think some of those like one in the morning shows yeah yeah were at times and and and then sometimes you you would do that and it would lead to great results and it would you know teach me something yeah but uh yeah i felt like very shot you know i teach me something. Yeah. But, uh, yeah, I felt like very shot. You know, I, I felt very much like a student of comedy, a student of acting rather than an actor or a comedian until really high school,

until I started, I had a great theater department in, in Highland park high school. That was like, there was a great, we were being taught advanced stuff, maybe too advanced. And then I would drive to the city and take classes at Second City.

Wow. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. So it was, I felt very much like a student. And then it was also sort of like, I felt like I had to like will myself to be funny. I felt like I had to will myself to decide that I was funny, to decide that I had presence.

Like I would sometimes just think about like, and this lasted. I mean, it still does. It still does like that idea of taking up space, like big enough space to fill a stage, fill a set, fill a character, you know, fill a stage, fill a set, fill a character, fill a made-up world. And everything about childhood and adolescence is designed for people to make you not take up space. Yes, minimized. Yeah, yeah.

No, less, less, less. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And in adulthood, that's one of the big struggles of how to be is like, OK, maybe I do need to be less here. Oh, it is too much. Yeah, it actually is too much. Yes, yes. And also, too, sometimes sometimes being being less is just a nice break.

You know, it's just it's just it's relaxing, you know. Oh, my God. Yeah. Those days where I can not say anything in reaction to something. Mm hmm. There are few and far between. It's I feel like that's a real accomplishment. I have I have felt just throughout my life. There's like different things that I think are like, that's that's being a grown-up like there's like different like like the main one that i think about being a grown-up is is like

two conflicting things at one time like your mother being a source of of warmth and and and love and encouragement and and why you're who you are in so many of the best ways and then also like a destroyer of you you know the person that can also like make you just burn you to the ground if she feels like it and i mean and even if she doesn't feel like it if she's just you know just kind of does it and it's like those two things coexist and another one of those is learning when you don't say sometimes you being a grown-up is don't say it don't say anything you think it whatever but just shut up don't say it that's no you know oh yeah i'll literally i mean all of my therapy is built around boundaries

about it's that's it yeah it's just boundaries it's like stay in your lane don't you know don't make it about that make it about you and if it's not working for you then you got to do what you need to do in order to yeah either to tolerate that or separate from it. And that's really hard because I'm somebody who instinctually wants to ram my head into the brick wall and break it down. I mean, I wasn't raised with boundaries. I was raised with confrontation. I don't think we ever left the house and there wasn't a fight right before we left. I don't think that happened. I can count on my one hand how many times that happened.

And it was normally about my mother taking too long to get ready. Yeah. Yeah. I remember. I think I've mentioned it here. Like one beautiful summer night walking home from football practice and it was warm. So it must have been like, you know, like the beginning of the school year, maybe even before school started. And I just remember it was a beautiful sunset and just it was a perfect weather.

And I was walking home and just, you know, it's kind of country out there. It's a little rural. And it just was so beautiful. And I got, and I kid you not, I was like a quarter of a mile from my house. And I heard, I heard my mother screaming at one of my siblings. And I just was like, oh my God, you know? And then even as I walk up to the oh, my God. You know? Yeah. And then even as I walk up to the house, it's like this beautiful old farmhouse. And all the windows are open.

The screen porch is open. And, you know, like, warm light inside. But coming from outside is. Just like, oh, God. Mothers are a lot of mothers. I don't want to generalize. But a lot of mothers are tricky don't want to generalize, but a lot of mothers are tricky. Mothers are like Los Angeles.

And I don't want to generalize too much again. And fathers. And I'm saying like your father could be your mother. Your mother could be your father. So I'm saying the archetype of the behavior. Mother types are tricky.'re like los angeles they're like i love you or do i not yeah yeah does my love come with conditions yeah is it unhealthy to love me too much is it unhealthy for me to love you too much where fathers are like new york

we're like this is the way it is and it's straight up right either you like it or you don't and if you don't you know get the fuck up whatever whatever yeah not my problem exactly i also find the rules are laid out i also as i've gotten older i feel like mothers so many mothers are angry and then and you realize like oh and they have lots of reasons to be angry like they're like they're frustrated and fed up. And you're like, okay, yeah, okay, I get it. I see. Yeah, I would be too. Yeah.

Yes. No, it is as much as fathers like to think that it's harder to be a father. Oh, no. I mean, there's no comparison. No comparison whatsoever. There's no comparison. It's way harder to be a mother. Even if it's in the sort of like traditional sense, making money is a breeze compared to dealing with feelings, you know, like a household full of feelings.

Yeah. It's, you know, making money. Money doesn't talk back, you know. Yeah. No, I mean, absolutely. I mean, if you're a straight cis woman and you're the mother, it's life is just harder for you. If you're gay or if you're queer and you're a mother, life is harder for you outside of just being in the family. Yes. Yes. You know, societally, that's not a word. Yeah. It's harder. And then you got the family dynamic on top of that so it's just it's uh yeah they don't have it easy and have to map out a lot of things yeah so well when you when you started wanting to get into i'm sorry i interrupted you

there no no no no i'm done okay I'm done. No, you're done. When you, when you, how were your parents when you said like, cause you ended up kind of going to theater school. Yeah. Yeah. They were, they were supportive. Oh, that's good. Supportive. Yeah.

They were. I, I, they were always really, really supportive. I mean, occasionally maybe my dad made like a crack a couple times about like no he never really did uh they just knew it was my dream from such an early age and i think that they were so concerned about my emotional and mental well-being they were like i mean the only choice is to support him or he might kill himself or kill us so or both why not both yeah i mean hopefully it's both if it's gonna be anything uh it'll be so much easier on the relatives if it's both we can stay together that way we can all stay together forever talk about loyalty yeah but they were i mean they were in they were intensely supportive yeah um outside of like normal narcissism yeah right no

i know making it about them but like in terms of my dreams and fulfilling that they were really supportive they there was no question of me going to drama school never me doing this with my life yeah and you went to i'm very grateful for that somewhere in north carolina right wasn't it a yeah i went to north carolina school of the arts and how did you how did you find that how does it how does a kid from highland park figure out to go to north carolina it was wild is Is there culture shock? It's culture shock, isn't it? Absolutely. No.

Well, it was random because, I mean, we're bred to stay in Chicago, you know, for the most part. Like, you know, you're going to go to U of I or, you know, just an Illinois school, you know, Columbia, whatever. It's funny. I went to U of I in Columbia. Oh, you did? I did. I did.

Which are amazing schools. They're I in Columbia. Yeah, you did? I did. I did. Which are amazing schools. They're both great schools. Yeah, yeah. And my teacher actually, in Second City, his teacher taught the high school program. There was a high school program at North Carolina School of the Arts. And he was like, I think they got a great program there. So, you know know you do all the auditions for everybody and that was one of the places i got in and then i went when i went there i mean by the time i was you know going around to college i was a deadhead and i was like i like i

like the vibe here oh dude i really like the vibe here yeah but i also really connected with the guy you know the assistant dean and uh my improv movement acting teacher who were the two guys who i did the audition for i felt like i connected the most with them in my audition process too so it was like all those things and i was like i'm gonna move to chicago new york or la this is nothing like any of those places yeah and and so i'll get to experience the south which was yeah a definite culture shock especially for the first two years the second two years i got more used to and also it's a conservatory so you weren't really leaving the school yeah it was all-encompassing yeah yeah because you have a grateful dead shirt on and we were talking about it uh beforehand yeah and uh and it was that when

you were because you were right i forgot yeah i forgot that was not recorded yeah yeah yeah we didn't mention we didn't mention it yet. But yeah, you were speaking a little bit. Yeah, and that you were, and that you for a while, because I asked you, are you a deadhead? And you said no, but then you said, oh, I did travel for a couple of years with them. I was a deadhead.

I was a deadhead. I wouldn't say I'm a deadhead anymore. I definitely wouldn't say that. But I do love The Grateful Dead. But, yeah, I'm not still keeping up with the culture. I mean, it's a whole – it's a lifestyle. It's a philosophy. It's a way of being.

I mean, that is unto itself. So, yeah, I was more of a part of that. But I still was like i think i always knew in the back of my mind even when i was like i'm a jew come on isn't there room for jews in the deadhead world no there's lots of jews no i just was like i was i'm an urban person i'm not oh i what you mean. I'm not a drifter. I think like the farthest it got was like right before it was. So I went on tour with the Grateful Dead after I graduated high school. And it was right before I was going to college.

And that is the part where I could have actually maybe ruined my life the most. Because I literally was like, maybe I'll be a drifter like Neil Cassidy and Kerouac. I mean, I was hanging out with some very amazing people. Because I literally was like, maybe I'll be a drifter like Neil Cassidy and Kerouac. Yeah. I mean, I was hanging out with some very, like, amazing people. But then also a lot of drug addicts. Yes, yes. And drifters.

Yeah. So, you know, and they seemed free and they seemed fully, like, authentic to themselves. I, you know, some of them are dead. Yeah. Yeah. So whether they were or not i don't know but that like seemed very attractive as a person who was constantly measuring my own work based on what other people thought of me so it was you know it felt like oh this could be freeing and then i think i didn't smoke pop for like a couple of days and I got a little, you know, I was like, no, I need to pursue my dream.

I need to go back. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And then, and then,

yeah. But you were saying too, that you were, you sold grilled cheeses and burritos and. Oh yeah. I was all in. I had like, I didn't dread my hair because I don't agree with white people having

dreadlocks. That's a, white people having dreadlocks that's a that's a sound that's a very sound stance to take i i find it disrespectful and yeah i find it to be cultural appropriation absolutely i knew i've known people that like dreaded their hair and like i just feel like if you have to put wood glue in your hair. Your hair is not meant to do what you're trying to get it to do. Like, no, no, that's, you know, I don't think anybody in Jamaica is putting wood glue in their hair. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah, it's it's not like it's a it's a whole practice that is handed down by generation. Right. That is a natural practice.

And it's spiritual. Yeah, it's spiritual yeah it's spiritual it's like about uh it's about an actual belief in the connection with god in yourself right and uh and these people were just yeah so i hung out with like a lot of white kids who had dreads and they and i have really curly hair i mean and i used to have a full head of curly hair and it was this giant i mean it went from a jufro to like being a main and the kids were always trying to get me to dread my hair and i never did that i did get a hemp wrap once but i never went dreadlocks yeah and i remember telling them one day

this kid he was like why don't you dread your hair you'll have the most beautiful dreads you have like you've had the most beautiful dreads man i mean you have the perfect hair for it and i was like well man i just you know i'm an actor i i might have to cut my hair one day. And him, me telling him that it was like, I told him that I had tossed a baby out of 42nd floor story window. It was like, it was his reaction. And then he just looked at me and he just, and he just went gonna chase those crazy bald heads out of town, which is a Bob Marley song.

Yeah, yeah. Which is anti, I mean, white oppression. And I was very grateful that he sang that, because that clinched it for me. I was not so fuzzy or insecure that I couldn't see. Oh, yeah. And then mad guys started doing heroin. So, you know, hey, no shade on no shade on drug addicts. It's a horrible disease.

But like and that's not you know, I do believe you're born with that. But right. But yeah. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But hey. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. you're born with that but um right but yeah but yeah yeah yeah but hey yeah there yeah there's there's there's sort of attendant choices that might also inform the ultimate sort of yeah falling into something that you have a predilection for i didn't feel very authentic when i would take a hit from the chillum and just to fit in with the other white pseudo Rasta's praise jaw.

I think I did that. Like I was managed to do that three times. And then I was just like, what the fuck am I doing? I just saw, I just saw Groucho Marx's ghost sitting next to me, shaking his head, going,

you loser, you loser. You loser. There's also part of it that I love that even in, like, drifter, deadhead culture, there's peer pressure. There's still peer pressure. It's crazy. Oh, so much. So much. No, it's definitely, it's not a free.

I mean, I think that much like any group. Yeah. Mostly everybody's an asshole. And then you got your few special people. Right, right. I mean, I did like a pod, I did Doug Benson's podcast that was like, he was like, you were a deadhead. You'd like follow the dead. I'm gonna have an actual deadhead now. And I got it. And this deadhead had never seen the actual band she had only seen what had existed after garcia had died wow and was talking to me about like the actual like what was going on in the lot and stuff like that i'm like but i was there yeah yeah yeah talking about and there was just a there was a lot of that but it was very atypical

it was very typical energy of i mean your average asshole i won't say groups of groups of young people yeah yeah groups of young people trying to fit in and you know yeah herd mentality yeah just yeah no and then uh it just there was a lot more stakes. We were all really high. I mean, I was hanging out with people who sold Coke to buy weed, putting themselves in very dangerous situations. Sure. There were deadhead gangs. There were, like, kids who were, like, and this happened, I think this started to gestate more like as the, on the fish lot too.

But there were like, like former friends of mine who like went down this dark path of being in like gangs on the dead lot. It was, it was very, very strange. Very strange. Yeah. Yeah. It's a whole, there's a lot of pockets of different types of people, you know, in that whole world there. That's actually, it's pretty fascinating. I bet.

And also very disturbing. Yeah. And not just the, you know, wavy, gravy, lazy, daisy way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I, yeah, I can imagine. I can imagine. They were talking on Howard Stern a little while ago about how there are nitrous gangs selling tanks at dead shows and fish shows, people selling balloons of nitrous outside in the parking lot. And there are violent gangs that control that market. And it's just, I don't know why why it's why it's sort of stunning

that like oh an illegal drug that can be quite lucrative and that has a marketplace and a a very healthy uh market you know like people a customer base that's very yeah robust like oh yeah of course it's going to get violent it's going to get weird it's going to get ugly it never went to it never went to violence but i definitely like friends of mine and i might might have even had a piece of it i don't totally remember to be honest i was never part of any of the wheeling and dealing of the nitrous tanks i would they would i think maybe like a couple times people were like hey you want in on this and you know give us a hundred bucks and you'll get a cut and i was like yeah okay and then i'd be like oh that felt bad uh but yeah there'd be like nitrous parties in these tanks. I mean, they are, if they are in a house or on the lot, they are stolen.

I mean, they are stolen from a truck. And so there's definitely criminal activity going on. Sure, sure. And it's dark. It's very dark. I mean, it is like, you know, it's people basically like huffing down big balloons to pass out. And that is, I mean, there's a lot of darkness there. Yeah.

And it was in a lot of ways, a very dark period for me. Yeah. Really dark period for me. Yeah. Can't you tell my loves are growing? You get out of college. You get out of college. I mean, you know and i'm yeah and and good for you to like understand too that like no i this is fun but i need you know i have you know dreams to remember to quote another uh you know Yeah, no. Another reggae lyric. Yeah.

You know, and after you're out of school, do you have connections to go to New York? And is New York just there because it's there, you know, because it's the closest one? I think that was, it was just expected from the school. I think it was expected, like, you go the school I think it was expected like you go to New York and then you start you live there you do regional theater and if you're lucky uh you do then you do off Broadway then eventually you find yourself on Broadway and then you'll eventually find yourself doing film and uh I think like TV was not as respected by the you know student body by the faculty uh i'm sure it is now though i mean it was a different era of tv not that there wasn't oh it's it's totally yeah it's totally yeah i mean it's it's become you know with with hbo you know

with things like the sopranos and larry sanders and sex in the city it became, you know, with things like The Sopranos and Larry Sanders and Sex and the City, it became cinematic. You know, it just got higher. But there was lots of great TV before that. I don't mean to disparage incredible work of TV renaissance thing is that there's there's things on like the lower tier of streamers that are fantastic that nobody even knows about, you know, like just like of count on the sort of off brand television stuff when we you and I were younger would probably be shitty. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, no, totally. No, there's probably it's probably great. Like that new thing that you hear about that's on.

I don't, you know, Peacock or, you know, to be whatever. It's like, oh, that's fucking awesome. Yeah. Epics, all these, you know, ones. And, you know, I mean, there's like oh that's fucking awesome yeah epics all these you know ones and you you know i mean there's so many things that i hear about i have to like google where where is it you know like yeah find where it is yeah yeah i mean you got like things like top boy and south side and enlightened and getting on yeah and uh and better things you know i feel like better you know pamela doesn't get enough credit for just how brilliant that show is.

That show is fantastic. I got to get her on here. She's the one, somebody that I think about and I'm like, she needs to come on here. And then I forget about it. Oh, yeah. You guys would be. I mean, I've only met her. I've only met her once.

But, oh, that'd be amazing to listen to a conversation between you two. Yeah. And so, yeah, I wound up in new york and you do this thing where you do like two scenes that are like five minutes and some people who are more musically theater and musical theater inclined did like a song in a scene so i played i played the james coco role from last of the red hot lovers by Neil Simon, which is a 50 year old character. And I played Roy Cohn's doctor from angels in America, who is also a 50 year old character.

And I was just like, Hey, should I play like younger people since this is for agents and casting directors. And I think at even that time I like, I knew they didn't necessarily have the most creative mindset when it came to signing new clients, you know? And they're like, no, great acting is great acting. And they were wrong. I was right.

And nobody signed me. It's an incredibly uncreative part of the business casting is incredibly uncreative yeah i mean there i mean there's those great casting directors who are artists uh but then there's i mean i guess like again the majority of any field in anything aren't great at what they do, you know, well, I mean, people,

yeah. And it's, it's a, you know, there's a lot of it. That's too. That's filling slots. Like we need,

we need a villain. Okay. How about I got a drawer full of villains, you know, we need bumbling idiots. I got a drawer full of bumbling idiots. And then, and if you score well

as a bumbling idiot you know like you mentioned cabin boy after i did cabin boy i had been doing all kinds of auditions for all kinds of different parts and i was very happy with that and after cabin boy it was just idiots it was just like yeah just stupid that's all i would get for you know a couple of years yeah yeah yeah no everybody wants me to be a piece of shit now nowadays and it's like i mean if it's an interesting piece of shit i'll do it but yeah yeah i mean an interesting character is an interesting character but yeah no so i didn't get signed i had one meeting with one person that was an advice meeting and she was like you're a character actor kid you'll work when you're 50 it's like thanks uh but until then you're on your own

but john daly you know john daly i do i do very funny comedian and actor old saxophone player yeah exactly and he um and i've known him for almost 30 years. He went to, he went to North Carolina for two years and then left. And, uh, he went right to New York and then we kept in touch obviously. And then he was like, you got to check out this place. I'm working with this group called the upright citizens brigade and then by the time i had moved to new york ucb had just moved into the first place on 22nd street um and i was like but i'm going to be on broadway i'm going to be doing you know shakespeare simon pinter and checkoff like i'm not going to do this this improv and sketch thing that we messed around with in college and that I did in the

eyes of, I'm beyond that now. And agent said, no, you're not. And then I went there and I remember going to my first ASCAP and being like, holy shit, this is, this is art happening here. This is incredibly innovative stuff. You know, I think, I mean, I believe you were in the, you were in the first ASCAP I saw. And I was like, Oh my God, there's Andy Richter. I was,

I was like, I think Conan did the first monologue. You could have asked cat that I saw. And you know, and then you had like, you had the four of them. You had Tina before weekend update. You had Rachel before being on the show.

Tina Fey, Rachel Dratch. Rachel Dratch. You had Adam while he was head writer of SNL. You had John Glazer doing the funniest things that I had ever seen. You all were doing the funniest things that I'd ever seen on stage. And I was like, oh, this is not fucking around at all. things that I'd ever seen on stage. And I was like, Oh, this is this is not fucking around at all. And this is something that I'm incredibly intimidated by, too, that I don't know how to do. Even though I've done improv for a while, I don't know how to do it like this. And then I started taking classes. And I rose up real I got on stage real quick, i mean i was one of the only people who knew how to be on the stage yeah yeah a lot of people that were like wow you're fucking weird you make me laugh when i'm high get on stage you're in a herald team baby yeah i was a little more than that yeah i the thing the one that I always noticed was,

Oh, you keep acting when you're not talking. Like that was, there was like, cause there seemed to be so many people that would just, when they were talking, they'd act. And then they just stand there to wait to talk and act again.

You know, but there was no, there was like no occupying, occupying the space within the thing, except when they were speaking. Then it was like a type of it was like living art it was like that person is unlike any human being that i've ever seen before and that was i mean that was really cool to see truly strange people doing that yeah yeah yeah weren't necessarily performers but who were genuinely odd yes and and uh and so yes so i was also genuinely odd but also

had all of this training and so yeah i got on a herald team really fast and then even before that was doing a sketch show there and so yeah and then with John. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My first my first two sketch groups. The first sketch show I ever did at UCB was called The Grizz. And John Ross Bowie directed us. And it was me and John and this guy and a friend named Vadim Newquist, who's, you know, not doing comedy. I don't think I mean, I haven't talked to him in quite a while. Yeah, so that was the first show. And then we got the... You get that nod from Matt Besser. And

me and John wrote... Well, John was already on a Herald team by the time I started doing UCB. So, yeah, I rose up the ranks, like, pretty fast. And then you got into the pool of familial dysfunctional competition. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just like every comedian does, whether you're an improv and sketch comedian or you're a stand-up. It's like every comedian then becomes family. There is nobody who you love or hate anymore than all of your friends in comedy.

Yes, all those people that mean the most to you. Yeah. Yeah. Just like, oh, wow, you're so awful. But you let me be awful too so i love you yes yeah and also too when you're young i always found too when you're young like i could take like i enjoyed watching dysfunction bounce up against dysfunction and sparks fly and then oh yeah and i mean my when i was young that was oh wow look at this crazy people being crazy at each other.

And then time goes on. You're like, oh, this is too. It's just tiring. It's just, I, I just want to take a nap now. Cause you know, it's not fun anymore. It was exhilarating to watch people to be like, wow, they might be institutionalized tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah.

And sometimes I was one of those people. And so, I'm like, yeah, truly irresponsible, incredibly irresponsible behavior. And now, I like seeing that mimicked. I love seeing that mimicked, but not actually lived out. I like people using that from their past, I'd like to use that, but without it having real life repercussions. Yeah. Yeah. What,

um, was it hard? Did you give up kind of on your Broadway ish kind of dreams? You know, I mean, when, because I mean, how soon?

Cause, uh, Eagle heart was like the first steady acting thing you had. Yeah. Yeah? Yeah, that was my first real job that I was proud of, yeah. Oh, because it's, well, that show is crazy. I love showing that show to people that don't know about that show

because it's a mind blower. I, you know, I think Chris is one of the most genius comedy performers of all time. I think I think Chris is like the top five most underappreciated comedians of all time, like just the level of genius yeah of the man and uh like if you've only seen him and i i eagle heart was great it was exciting for me because i i had already idolized chris so much and to see jason and you know jason walner and uh michael coman and andrew weinberg who created the show and write all wrote all the scripts yeah create something for him that i thought supported that genius again you know since what he was doing in cabin boy and get a life and all of his work on letterman and his

cinemax specials that like you know a lot of not enough people have seen that are some of the most like brilliant you know fdr a one-man show and action family are two of the most genius yeah pieces of comedy ever made yeah and uh and so yeah i got that gig it was a while though i mean i had moved to los angeles by the time i got eagle heart so i hadn't get, I sort of did give up on my Broadway dreams. I think I was too insecure at the time to tackle another scene. And I remember I went to one, there was this group called Naked Angels, which was- Oh, and you don't mean like a scene in a play. You mean like a happening-

The community. An environment. Okay. Yeah. And I went to one N. And, and I, I went to one naked angels, uh, meeting and I was just like,

I was very inspired by it. And then I was scared, you know, I'm ashamed to say that it is a regret that I have, that I was not also simultaneously, uh, pursuing the, the,

you know, off Broadway and Broadway while I was pursuing comedy as well. Yeah, I've been trying to get back there. I'd love to start doing plays again, too. But it just seemed like the comedy scene was such a huge mountain to keep climbing anyway, especially before I was working that I just was like, let's just, let's just stick to this. You know, I can't like crack a whole community and be like,

hi, how you doing? I'm the new guy again. It took so long to not be the new guy at UCB and not be the new guy in like the alt standup scene too. Yeah. I don't blame you. you that's that's like pretty sound reasoning if you ask me yeah it's like yeah and it's but you're you know and you you're already halfway there like why go start start again exactly and and i had pride and like i thought i saw what we were doing or you know what i me and a lot of my peers was doing is theater yeah too it just wasn't in the same form but it was acting it was theater and uh and it was also in many ways uh inventing itself as it went along whereas theater can tend to be sort of i think it's a lot harder to do that in legit theater because

legit theater has had such a head start to explore all different kind of avenues that it's a lot harder to do that in legit theater because legit theater has had such a head start to explore all different kind of avenues that it's like it's hard to do something new in legit theater whereas when you're doing you know improv this that kind of improv sketch and you know yeah there's second city and yeah there's the groundlings but there it was all always evolving into more stuff that was more just interesting and different. Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, you know, there's, of course, so much like non-commercial theater that was also doing that. But in terms of off-Broadway and Broadway, it's a fight, you know, in the same way that it is in film and television for, you know,

artists to really realize their vision. It's a real fight to do that. And an improv and sketch, it's like, you ain't got no, you know, once the lights go on, it's like, there's no more leash.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can do, I mean, with certain like second city and grounding reviews, but you know, to the side,

like, you know, a lot of work at, at second city in the groundlings and then of course at ucb and then io was just like you have no leash on me at all i can do whatever i want here i can be terrible and not lose my job yeah job and you know sort of job with air quotes around it yeah yeah exactly i'm not kidding i'm not getting paid yeah yeah yeah so fire me go ahead no but there was real innovative it made me there's no doubt i don't think that like i mean doing ucb made me a better actor there's no

yeah doubt in my mind it made me a much. Like, you learn so much technique at a conservatory, and then like being really terrible for a few years at something, you know, a lot of times, you know, bombing is amazing training and also the innovation of what we were learning and what we were inventing as we went along and linking up with people who were like-minded and all that. So, yeah. And then theater opened in LA. I'd sort of like hit the glass ceiling of what I thought I was going to accomplish in New York. I was like, well, now I have no excuse. New York. I was like, well, now I have no excuse. And I had taken trips out to LA and been performing at the theater and death ray and stuff. Comedy death ray became comedy bang, bang. Right. I felt that people were more into my stuff too. And so then I came to LA and then that sort of just coincided with Jason Walner coming to Los Angeles too. And then Jason's the reason I got Eagle Heart.

Jason Walner coming to Los Angeles too. And then Jason's the reason I got Eagle heart. So, and then, and then Jason history and the, and then fame, life, action. I slid right into a big champagne glass.

Yes. Every day is sunshine and glory over here. Oh, never, never a tear, never a frown. Jesus. Well, you know, but I'm, well, you do get, you've gotten to do so much, you know, a lot of really fun, crazy stuff and it's, you know. No, I'm so grateful. I know, I i know i i am grateful i don't think i live a life of struggle yeah no well i i mean you know everybody's good you know that's the thing every you know you can't be a pollyanna either it's like you know life is life and you have all these good things happen but there's still 60 seconds in every minute and 60 minutes in every hour and you got

to fill them up with with the personality that has been poured into you and uh you know and so it's like yeah you can't always be like it would be counterproductive to always just yeah you know no i mean you have to recognize that i I mean, yeah, I just, uh, that's the internal struggle that I'm talking about. Yeah. My brain, not my life. My life is a charmed, you know, beautiful life. I have, I have a better, you know, we have a better life than most, you know, than the majority, the vast majority of the earth. And, uh, but yeah, there used to, we still have,

I mean, that's sort of like what Lennon was talking about in his goal. I don't remember. And I mean, Vladimir, not John, but like that whole, that was his whole original ideal with what the revolution would do.

Right. I'm not a socialist or communist, but I'm relating it to, I heard this quote by him, where it had something to do with, I want to end the external struggles. So human beings only have to deal with the internal struggle with the privilege of that. And so I think, yeah, that's where, I mean, that's where I've always been at. I didn't grow up poor, you know, I didn't grow up, I didn't ever, I've never like truly worried about

money it's not like my parents were buying me an apartment in union square when i was in new york but like i knew that if i ran out of money i wouldn't be on the street you know and so that's a really lucky place to be yeah yeah it is well um where where do you what's your what's your dream coming true like what what come going forward what do you where would you are there's like certain things you you would like things that have remained unanswered you know like urges i I just, I want to, I want to work with more great people and, uh, and work and play more great roles. I want to direct,

um, and, you know, be more of like a, an auteur, I guess. I want to achieve that. I want to,

you know, I want to be the lead in things as long as those roles are, are really, you know, interesting. I want to, you know, it be, I'm ready for the show to be mine, in things as long as those roles are are really you know interesting i want to you know it be i'm ready for the show to be mine you know yeah and not that that i don't i see everything as an ensemble piece regardless but you know where i i'm i'm taking up the you know carrying the thing acting wise on my shoulders a lot i really want to step i'm ready to really step into that and whether that is a film or a television show yeah and then also i'd love to yeah and start

getting on stage more those are really like the things and then and then i think i want to make like a comedy special i haven't done that that since Jason Walner and I did our really, our, our, our trilogy that we did for adult swim, which were basically like one act plays. I haven't done it since then. And nobody watched.

I mean, it's strange. I saw one of them. I remember seeing one of them, but I haven't seen all three. So yeah. Yeah. The fact that those were on television were really,

I mean, that's insane. So, but i'd like to bring my own i feel like you know just how you do i'm sure like nobody does every comedian nobody does what they do exactly and so i'd like to put that out there again too so those are really the big goals and then life-wise i want to have kids and get in the best shape of my life yeah are you the best shape are you uh are you serious about that i mean are you is that like a yeah yeah i'm that's good i want to get i want to get you know more fit and and uh not that i feel like i look bad it's not really for looks as much as it is for versatility of the roles i play in health yeah you know yeah yeah i have i just have a heart i have such a fucking hard time i you know i have all the desire like yeah man i'd really like it

but i just it's just really and it's not even so much eating it's the it's the cardio it's doing it's doing exercise i just i don't like it you it's the cardio it's doing, it's doing exercise. I just, I don't like it, you know what I mean? I've done it, you know, when I started making enough money that I could join a gym and, and work out with somebody I've been doing it like since I was, you know, early thirties. And I have always been waiting for that thing of like, like just the people that are like,

oh man, while I'm on vacation, I hope they have a gym there. And I'm always like, what the fuck is wrong with you? You know, like, well,

yeah, you know, I don't, and I just have never gotten to that, man, I need to work out. Cause it, I feel so good.

I still, after however many years, 20 some years of working out, my body is constantly, well, not constantly, but at least for the first 10 minutes, Hey, stop, cut it out. I don't like this. Hey, Hey, Hey, stop, stop it. Stop it. You know? Yeah. The before and the beginning of the workout. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The, the later during and after love. Yeah. And, uh, uh i and then the before and during i hate eating healthy i yeah so but i'm doing like a cleanse now and uh gonna go on like a diet because the next thing

i'm doing i want to lose some weight for but i also like i i don't i think you know i think being big too is is sexy too you know i think it's all about attitude you know like feeling good about yourself and so really it's just about me wanting to like continue to shift how people see me as an actor of like what the roles are that i can play and and then challenge myself to transform into the character that i'm gonna play and then and then health-wise you know i got bad genes i got oh yeah yeah yeah yeah that's important to head that off at the pass as much as you can yeah yeah i don't want to get heart disease or diabetes if i can help it but you know there's a way to turn that around too so it's not

like so yeah so that's really that's really the thing and i do dig it i mean i started training in karate for stranger things and i really do enjoy that oh cool that's really that's fun because i mean it's sort of like being a kid in a way yeah yeah and you're exercising but you're still yeah but you're still, yeah, but you're still, you're kind of dancing and fighting all at once. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, wow, I just learned how to do a back kick. Yeah.

And I'm sweating. I'm like sweating profusely and out of breath. Yeah. And then, and my trainer is like this master who is very serious about it, but also nice, but also very kind. Do you have to call him sensei? I have to call him masteri i have to call him master i really do he he asked me to and the reason not like when we're talking in life but when we're training he's like because what i'm teaching you is so aggressive i mean he's teaching me to be i

mean to be able to kill someone with my body right right i mean this guy he's like i don't even know how old he is like i know he is probably in his 50s or he's like, I don't even know how old he is. Like, I know he is probably in his 50s or 60s. But I don't know, because he looks very young. And because he's, you know, been in amazing shape his whole life. And I'm like, oh, and this guy is the kindest, most, he's a gentle soul, but also know, he could kill me in like three seconds and so he's like i'm teaching you this aggressive thing and so you calling me master humbles you to balance that out oh and so i was like oh that's a very practical thing you know that's very and that's the cool thing about it too there's a philosophy with it too of passivity as your and knowledge and knowing oneself as you learn to

kill people with your hands and right but only in a reactive way not in an aggressive reactive thing yeah yeah yeah yes yes never use right might for right right i mean never i mean never use uh violence for selfish means but only to develop might for right is part of the student credo. Oh, nice. Nice. Yeah, that's cool, right? Yeah. Well, what do you... Never thought you'd hear those words coming out of my mouth.

I'm writing it down right now. I just lost at least 10 fans saying that that's but i might have gained five so that's right exactly exactly yeah yeah yeah soon you will be called master well thank you so much for spending this time you know the final question is the is the what you've learned part uh uh of of like what do you think like can you boil brett galvin down into a a punchy little uh you know something to button a podcast with yeah i mean what i've learned is i mean it goes off of what we've been talking about before is i I mean, really think before I react. And that's a thing that I try to learn every day and that I'm still learning.

And to get out of my own way of my own happiness. I am the one who is blocking my happiness more than anybody else so uh and to yeah are you getting are you getting better at that i think so i think so you know it's still it's still a struggle uh because yeah i don't know my mind though, my brain's the way it's been a long way living this way, but, uh, yeah, I think I am definitely getting better at that. I think I am. Yeah. Does, um, what, what aspect of the, of the change in your life as you've gotten older has assisted you in making that change the most? I think allowing more and more love in my life. I mean, really, you know, treating myself,

making choices, I think, taking actions that are supportive, productive, kind actions towards myself. You know, you can't really, I can't think myself into any state of being really, but I can make choices and take actions that will then instinctually reconfigure my synapses and my brain in order to and and and reconfigure my self-esteem to make myself feel better about myself so like i mean it's cheesy but like to really take actions that are more of a movement towards i think we're like you know this is obvious but we're always moving we're organisms so we're either moving forward we're organisms. So we're either moving forward, we're moving backwards. We're either taking steps towards health, or we're taking steps towards lack of health. We're taking steps towards love, or we're taking steps towards insecurity and fear and all of that. But also, I think part of that self-love is like learning that those steps back are also learning opportunities to take more steps forward and that that's not that's not ugly.

That's human. Yeah. So I think like trying to love the mess that I am while at the same time making choices that are not so messy. Yeah. making choices that are not so messy yeah yeah a huge thing that a crossroads that i came to in my life was uh just the basic logic of when people talk shitty to me i'm not inspired to help them or do what they want and why don't i recognize that in myself like when i talk shitty to myself like why would i honor that guy that guy's an asshole he just told me all kinds of awful stuff about me but it's me that's doing it so it's like if i tell myself nice things

i'm much more likely to pursue the stuff that i know i should be doing or that I want to do or make the improvements and the changes that I want to make. And it took a long, long time because I think I don't know what it is exactly, but there's something in us that thinks like if we're really mean to ourselves and really hard on ourselves, I don't know if it's like that stern daddy kind of thing. Like we think that that's good and that's manly and that we're like we're we're, you know, before anyone else can punish us for our bad choices, we're going to punish ourselves really, really hard. And it's self aggrandizing. It's a way to, it acts like you're acting like you're making progress or like you're being a hard ass and really, you know, taking a firm line with yourself. But all you're doing is just wallowing in the same old shit.

You're just in a little cycle that makes you feel good. Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, that's me to a T. And in addition to that, I think, like me creating problems in my life or being unkind to myself, I think is maybe a defense mechanism at times out of fear to like, avoid life doing bad things to me. Yeah. Like, well, if I make, if I create the negative, the negativity, then life won't do that. Right. the negative the negativity then life won't do that right and that's that's that's a the that's me saying to myself well i don't deserve to be happy yeah yeah i'm gonna beat life to the

punch life won't make me miserable i'll make me miserable fuck you life yeah exactly i'll ruin well to keep life from killing me uh I'll just ruin all of my relationships. Good job. You showed life. Mike's got a big thumbs up. Yeah, I know. Totally. So, I mean, I think that that's...

But I also have learned if you're worth a damn, you struggle with that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not interested in any saintly type no it's like yeah you know putting out this perfect adjusted thing you know it's cliche but they wind up being the most screwed up people a lot absolutely yeah yeah yeah or sometimes not sometimes they're amazing yeah but yeah but no most of the time, especially out here. Like, usually the person that's crowing the most about how well put together they are is, like, that's the lady protesting too much, which I think is another reggae lyric.

That's the great thing about our community, too, and, like, coming up in our community and then who it led me to have taste for of having friend relationships with no very few people we know on a day-to-day basis have any tolerance towards that yeah yeah yeah whatsoever so that's great yeah it's yeah it is it's good it's it's it's humbling but it's also i i think it's like as it's striving for authenticity at least in our own little group you know yeah yeah exactly yeah well brett thank you so much for taking the time and uh yeah and good luck you know with everything and uh you too and i hope to see you around soon you know if i ever leave the house yeah let's let's please let's let's hang yeah that'd be great i would love that yeah okay no it really

it really means a lot you having me on really i'm i'm i'm happy to do it it was it was a great conversation thank you man yeah and and thank all of you out there for listening to this episode of The Three Questions. I will be back next week. I mean, maybe Brett will come along next week, too. Why not? Probably not. You probably got stuff to do. I mean, it depends what time and where. I'll be back. I'll be back as soon as you want me. I'd love to. All right. Three more questions. Yeah, exactly. I'll be back next week. Thanks a lot.

The Three Questions with Andy Richter is a Team Coco and Your Wolf production. It is produced by Lane Gerbig, engineered by Marina Pice, and talent produced by Galitza Hayek. The associate producer is Jen Samples, supervising producer Aaron Blair, and executive producers Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Earwolf. Make sure to rate and review The Three Questions with Andy Richter on Apple Podcasts.