The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Clea DuVall

Episode Date: March 14, 2023

Clea DuVall (Veep, Poker Face) joins Andy Richter to discuss her on-set "film school" experience, her heart-warming friendship with Natasha Lyonne, the struggle of directing yourself,  the new season of her animated show “House Broken,” and much more.

Hello, everyone. This is Andy Richter, and you are listening to The Three Questions. And I am very excited today because I get to talk to, I don't know, are you a triple threat, quadruple threat? Actor, director, writer, tap dancer? You know, you name it. But I'm talking to Clea Duvall today, which is very exciting. Hi. Hi. I'm very excited to be here. And we've never met. I know. I was trying to think that. I feel like we know so many people in common and I was like, have we actually ever met?

I don't think so. That's what, and I was thinking that too. And because I'm always at a disadvantage and it sounds like such a Dickie thing to say, but it's, I mean, just because of my job, I've met so many gazillion people. Like I'll run into people and I'll be, you know, like people that I know and that know me and, you know, that are actors or writers or whatever. And it's kind of like, oh, hey, there's just this instant kind of familiarity because we're in the same club. But I cannot remember whether I've met them or whether I just have seen them on television. And so they're my imaginary friends.

Yeah. You know, So I always, it's always a little strange. But also, you know, I mean, you do end up when you do this for a living, I imagine it's like the same with like baseball players. Yeah. Like when baseball players meet each other, even if they haven't met, it's like, oh, hi, fellow baseball player. It's like, oh, hi, fellow baseball player. How's the baseball? Yeah.

How are the new bats this season? Exactly. Exactly. That's what I assume they talk about most of the time. So we are Zooming today. You're at home. And that's in Los Angeles, correct? Yes.

Yes. And how is things these days? First of all, you're promoting to this, this, what you're promoting today is. It's housebroken, which is an animated show that I created with two of the writers from Veep. And this is our second season that's premiering on March 26th. And, and where is it available at? It's on Fox. On Fox. On Sunday nights on Fox. Yeah.

Oh, you're part of the animation domination block. Yes. That's nice. It is. It's really exciting. We were in our first season. We were on Monday nights and they moved us to Sunday nights, which I feel like is a good thing. Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

Absolutely. You get kind of bulletproof in there. You know, if if things go pretty well. Yeah. Yeah. It's a real it's a dream as a as a kid who really grew up loving The Simpsons to have a show on Fox is really an animated show on Fox is so cool. And I was I was going to ask you, like, what was animation something that was always kind of on a checklist of things you wanted to do? I mean, it wasn't, actually. Oh, really? Yeah, it was not something that I ever thought would be an option.

And then when I started writing and directing several years ago, it kind of opened up my mind to the different kinds of things I wanted to do. And then I had this idea that could only really be executed through animation. And I pitched it to Gabby and Jen, who are my co-creators. They loved it and they had, they improved upon the idea. And then we got together and kind of built this world. And it was so much fun just because you just don't have the restrictions that you have in live action. It's very freeing. I know I do cartoon voices and it's one of the things I can't even believe I get to do.

It's fun. It really is so much fun. It's it's also getting to play a character that no one would ever let me as a human being play. So it's great. Which means, I mean... She's just this sort of like bossy, know-it-all, you know, very kind of silly

and ridiculous. Like, I don't get to be silly, really, ever. But I'm a very silly person, but people don't want to hire me to be a silly person on screen why do you yeah why do you think that is i mean do you think that it's it's a like a like poverty of imagination on the part of casting people or do you think that just you know because you know there are i i often think like why don't i get to do these things that are a stretch for me? But then I also think

there's like other actors that I see who do things that are sort of outside of their normal wheelhouse. And I kind of feel like, yeah, you should probably just, you know, stick to being the villain or whatever, you know, or whatever. So I'm always a little bit torn between, you know, I'm always beaten up on show business, but then I'm also, you know, it's like, you know, I need to lose weight, but that there's also times when I see people in things, I'm like, Ooh, he's put on weight. And I'm like, who the, what the fuck are you talking about? Fatty, shut up, you know? So it's, I mean, cause it's, you know, you've got all the bad programming in yourself, you know, being part of society, but I mean, why do you think that, why do you think

that is? Why do you think that, you know, cause you do tend to play serious people. Yes. Yeah. I mean, I think when I was younger, I was definitely a more serious person and a very shy person. I was really guarded, you know, I was a very guarded person who was very vulnerable. So like my specialty where, you know, it was these like tough girls that have like a, like a soft, you know, kind of softness right under the surface, which was what I was, you know, and I wasn't that, I wasn't that open. And so I think, you know, I think it just, I think that that's what I was really good at. And then, you know, as I've gotten older, I, you know, I haven't really been focusing on acting as much because I'm doing more writing

and directing, but I, I am finding that when I am, when I am acting, they, I am getting to do more things. Like I'm getting to branch out and be, you know, a little lighter, which is nice, but I think that's probably because I have lightened up as a person. Yeah. Do you think that's something that once you're in a role, you show the writers that you're, that you have that in you, or do you just think that, you know, maybe casting the casting process is opening its eyes to it? I think that, I mean, I think it's both, you know, it's, it's really, you know, I, people can't as much as like, as, as we like to think like, oh, we can do anything we can, we can't really fight our own humanity. You know, like we can't hide that.

And, you know, I've definitely gone through like difficult times in my life where, you know, casting directors who knew me really well were like, what's going on? Are you okay? Like, and I thought I was like going in and killing it and no one knew that I was having this hard time. But it was like written all over my face. So I think. I hate that. It sucks, man. You think you're like, no, I got it down. And it's like, no, I don't. Everyone can see, you know? I mean, but that's also, I think part and parcel of being older. Once you get older and you just like yeah this is me what am i gonna do you know yeah um so now you've been doing this a long time you've been in show business a long time yeah yeah and you're married but you don't you don't have any kids or do you have kids no we have a kid we have

one kid you you have a kid yeah and how is your, and how old is boy, girl? Girl, she's 13. She's 13. Okay. Wow. Almost 13. Does she have any interest in wanting to be an actor? She, she doesn't want to be an actor.

She did when she was younger, but that is sort of evolved into being interested in other aspects of film. Like whether it's like directing or costume design or makeup, like those are, those are the things she gravitates towards now. Thank God. Yeah. Yeah. Because I definitely was like, don't do it. Don't do it. I have a 17 year old daughter and I went through the same thing. I've talked about it on here before that there was a time, especially,

you know, kids in LA, especially, you know, my daughter goes to, you know, one of the LA private schools that lots of LA kids go to and, you know, and she's got, you know, working actor kids that she's been in school with since grade school. And there was a time when she really wanted to, and I just was like, nope, no, no, no, no. I mean, she didn't push really hard. Like if she had in, like, if she had really demonstrated, this is something I'm dying to do maybe, but again, maybe I, because I just, I mean, I feel like show business chews up and spits out adults much let alone kids yeah it's not good for their for their brains like it's whether they're successful or not it's almost like they're both both versions are bad like a super successful child who's getting that amount of attention

that amount of praise that amount of yes you know you know, it distorts their view of what real life really is. And I mean, and if they're successful enough, they never have to live as a normal person, which I think is really damaging. Yeah. Well, and also too, sometimes life is a parade and sometimes it rains. And if you're're if you go from like age 12 and have like 10 to 15 solid years of parade when it rains it fucking hurts yeah you know it's like when you when it slows down and you have to deal with i'm just another person on the street it it just must suck you know yeah i mean like i say it sucks the ups and downs of it, it just must suck, you know? I mean, like I say, it sucks, the ups and downs of it. And I, you know, I started doing this when I was an adult and the

ups and downs of it are really tough on you, you know? Yeah. I mean, when, when your daughter was kind of into it, how did you deal with it? Did you have like a, I mean, it was, it was easy to just kind of be like, well, when you're, you know, when you're a grown up and if you want to do that, you can, but you're not doing it now. Yeah. You know, yeah. It's just it's putting it off into the distance. Right. Right. And then seeing if it was something that she, you know, you know, if she's turns 18 and she wants to be an actor, there's nothing we can do about it. Right. Exactly. It's definitely it's you know you know, I really tried to encourage her to be interested in other aspects of the business.

Yes. But she didn't. It really wasn't until Natasha, Natasha Leon, who is my best friend, had a conversation with her and was just like, you should really focus on other sides of the business. And like, you don't want to put all your eggs in the acting basket. And literally the next day, Olive was like, you know, I don't know if I just want to be an actor.

Maybe I want to try these other things. And I was like, oh, the thing I've been saying to you for years, Natasha has one conversation with you and suddenly. Yeah. But I was I was so grateful that, you know, Natasha was able to kind of give her that insight and that it did have an impact because I just don't think it's just not that it's also just not that fun to sit around and wait for someone else to let you express yourself. Yeah. And also to sit around and wait.

Yeah. People don't get that that's 90% of your life is sitting somewhere waiting to say the three lines that you get to say today. Yeah. I mean, I went to film school, so I was kind of used to it from another side. I kind of went in, you know, came at it from the side of being driving trucks and getting coffee and making Xerox copies. and getting coffee and making Xerox copies. And then eventually, you know, still, I still consider it being a part of the crew, but just like a really cushy department on the crew where you get your own toilet and stuff like that. But I, so I had some idea of how much waiting it was, but I find, so I always knew that, but I do find like, as time goes on, the waiting gets really hard.

Like now that I'm older, it's real, I'm really like, is this really like what I want to, like, do I really want to, you know, go somewhere for 13 hours and spend about 45 minutes of it actually doing the thing that I'm here to do? Yeah. You know, it's tough. I really like the waiting. I really like, I love, cause I, I stay, I usually stay on set in between setups or scenes just because I like, I like to see what's going on. I like to see, I like to watch everybody do their jobs and whatever you know if if there's like an issue that comes up how how people deal with it like i feel like i'm watching a television show of a you know of like the making of something in real time and i think it's so it's so cool and i just

think film sets are the most fun places and film crews are the coolest people and i just can't get enough of it that's yeah and especially now, I mean, you went to film school by watching. Yeah. You know, I mean, cause that's, I mean, I went to film school and I learned more in a week of working on television commercials in Chicago than I did in two years of going to, you know, watching rules of the game, you know, or what, you know, watching Rules of the Game, you know, or what, you know, whatever sort of Scorsese movie or Francois Truffaut or something. It's like, that's all really nice. But,

and honestly, most film production has more in common with a Wheaties commercial than it does with Francois Truffaut, you know? So, but, so when you started doing it now, your dad was an actor, correct? Yes. Yes. And so was he OK with you becoming an actor? Because you started fairly young, right? I was 18. Yeah. 18. Yeah. He was fine with it.

My mom didn't want me to do it. She was not interested in me doing that. Yeah. And she didn't really have an alternative of what she wanted me to be doing, but she definitely didn't want me to be an actor. But then, you know, I got very lucky very quickly. So I think that soothed her and she, you know, she was able to see me do all right. When you say lucky, I mean, how did that play out? Like how did the, how did the luck play out? Well, I, you know, I got, um, I had an audition for this movie that everybody auditioned for, but, um, the casting director, Sheila Jaffe, who is this incredible casting director. Um, she

just liked me. She was just like, she just saw something in me and she, her office was down the street from where I was working at a coffee shop at the time. And so she came into the coffee shop and I gave her a coffee and we talked and there was just something in me that she saw. And she really like supported me with. And she knew you were an actress at that point yeah i we we met because i auditioned for this something she was casting oh and then we got to talking and i told her i was working down the street and then she we sort of like built this friendship and she she really uh she was really pushing for me with the director and the director liked me and and then and wanted to cast me in this role. But the financiers did not want her to cast me.

And she really dug her heels in. And because of that, they took the financing away. But because we didn't end up shooting the movie when we were supposed to, we went to the Sundance Filmmakers Lab, which is this thing they do at the Sundance Resort every summer. That lasts for a few weeks where filmmakers go and basically learn how to work with actors and crews. And you shoot a few scenes and they edit them together and they screen them. It's like summer camp, like movie summer camp, basically.

And that was the first real legit thing that I did. And there I met, I met Robin Tunney, who became a friend and she introduced me to her manager. And then that manager took me on and really was amazing and worked so hard and sort of like helped me build this career. So I think it was like, I, you know, and I always worked really hard. So there, it was definitely like, I was very prepared and I took it was like, I, you know, and I always worked really hard. So there, it was definitely like, I was very prepared and I took it very seriously, but in terms of, you know, those sort of like those chance meetings, like that's where I feel like the luck really came in of just like right place, right time. And like meeting the right people who introduced me to

the right people. It was like, know that that kind of that kind of thing not just i was like walking down the street and somebody was like you're gonna be an actor not that kind of love getting this 16 passenger van we're on our way to a set exactly can't you tell my love's a girl? Did you, had you had a lot of kind of formal acting training at that point? I went to a performing arts high school. Oh, that's right, LOXA. Yeah, I went to LOXA.

LOXA, which is Los Angeles County High School for the Arts. Right, yeah, yeah. So I went there, and then in my senior year, I started taking acting classes outside of school and I continued taking acting classes for a couple of years. And then I worked with a coach just like privately with a coach for many years. And so I have some, but I don't have like Meisner or Stella. It's more just sort of like my own hodgepodge of acting education. I mean, I sort of feel like my acting is just, I mean, I did improv, which is a kind of training, but it's just kind of like a training of how to, well, how to forget about yourself basically, and kind of be in something and to get in sort of a,

a group driven vehicle and submit to it, um, is probably the main thing of it, which is, which is a big part of acting, you know? Um, but then I think like most of my acting training was on the job. I was very lucky to, you know, to be in that position where I already could kind of do I could do comedy in a way. And I could think of funny things to say and think of ways to make things that other people wanted me to say be funny. And then I learned how to act by acting. And I remember reading a quote once from Jodie Foster. And she had she was like, acting school is bullshit. You can either do it or you can't. And I kind of felt like, yeah, she's right. You know? And I wonder where you fall on that kind of issue.

I definitely think that, I do think that people have it or they don't, you know, and some people are really, you know, some trained actors are really extraordinary. But, you know, when you think about an actor like Colin Farrell, you know, who I don't know what his training is, but he is the one of the, think greatest actors of all time you know and i watch him and i cannot believe these characters that he creates and it does feel just like a cellular understanding of what acting is that he has that like yeah it's you know and i or like you know i because i don't think that i am the greatest actor in the world. You know, I think I can, I can, there are certain things I can do. That's not what my research says. My research says the main thing you want to get across.

Oh. Yeah. The main thing you want to get across is that you're the best actor. I mean, listen, your words, you know, but like I, you know, I, I don't know how to, as I've gotten older, I think I've gotten worse in some ways. In what way? Like, how do you think? I don't, it's harder for me to get lost in something, you know, like I, like Melanie Linsky is a really good, is one of my very good friends.

And I watch her and like, we worked together on on my first movie and we had scenes together and i was just like melanie intervention the intervention yeah and she was just able to sort of like drop into these scenes and like inhabit this character and i i could i just didn't understand how she was doing it. And I knew, all I knew is that I could not do what she was doing. I was so conscious of the performance and the dialogue and like what she was doing and the blocking. Like I had so many other things going on in my head

that were not the scene. And I would try to like shut it all out and just be in the scene and I couldn't do it like I can't I don't know and that's when I look at like actors like Melanie or like Colin Farrell and like they just really feel like they have entered into like a different dimension or something yeah and I just don't I can't get out of my own way to do that. Yeah. You know, and I wish I could like every so often, like maybe like once or twice on everything I do, I like lock into something, but I cannot access that all the time. Yeah. I mean, I don't, I mean, A, you know, most of my acting is comedy,

which is a different thing. And I'm not saying I'm not discounting it, but it's a very particular thing. So the times when I, you know, drama is still a bit of a mystery to me. It's still, it's still kind of intimidating to me. And a lot of the kind of dramatic things that I've done have mostly been television things and television drama is like, you know, there's so much of it. That's just, it's kind of corny. You know, it's like, it's formulaic, you know, at least the things that I've done, I should say, you know, and, and it's kind of corny. And so I've always kind of like the television drama that I've done, I've always kind of been like, this is not that much fun. Like people here do not really seem

like, you know, I, to me, I'm one of my basic things is why did you go through all of this? Like how much rejection and how much like having your parents go, what the fuck are you doing with your life? All of that stuff to get to here. And then you're not going to have fun. Like you're not going to, you know, you're not going to, you're not going to look for a good, for like in between takes, just ways to be silly with your other fun friends who all, nobody here fit into the workaday world. So you're all a bunch of weirdos, like might as well be weirdos together. And so I, I mean, I, so I ended up doing more, more comedy, but I do see like the people that you say, like, I remember I did, it was this sitcom that my friend Will Arnett was the star of and Margo Martindale, who is one of my, like, like one of my acting heroes, like just everything she does. It's, it's the same thing. You're just

like, oh shit. She just, she just let just let she like you said just drops in and i don't know if it's a i don't know if she learned it in a class or whether margo martindale you know came out of the uterus doing that you know yeah um and for people that don't know on a on a it was a three camera sitcom and on the night of shooting, you do, usually in the makeup room, what they call a speed through, which is you go through and you do all the lines. You basically do the whole show. You do a quick, quick run through of just the lines of all. And Margo Martindale was sitting there. And, I mean, it was a sitcom.

It wasn't Moliere. And she was doing the speed through of her lines. And so she was doing all her lines about this fast and stuff. It was one of the most riveting performance things I have ever experienced in my life. Yeah. Sitting, she was sitting in a makeup chair with her elbows on her knees, leaning forward, you know, like, like a, you know, like a basketball team during a timeout, going through these lines. And I just, I was having a hard time with my lines just because I was watching her and how present she could be in something that was so utilitarian. And it does kind of make me feel like,

I put actor down when they ask what I do for a living, but then I see that and I'm like, I'm kind of like a faker. I mean, I figured out a way to be able to put that on my tax returns, but it's really probably not. It's like her tax returns mean a lot more than mine. I don't know. Well, but it's just, basically, I'm saying I agree with you is it's astounding when you see the people that really, really do it. Yeah. Yeah. It really it is exciting. And I do feel like working with people like that does make me better. You know, working on working on Veep was so scary, but like in the beginning.

But it was the nicest, most talented group of people and at a certain point i could you know i could just like i found my my way in to the show and like really kind of like locked in on my character and it it did get really fun and like getting to do scenes with julia like was so cool you know know, and feeling like, Oh, okay. I'm not, I'm not ruining my favorite show. I can like come here and like support, you know, and be of service to the show. And, you know, I think that that is really what I like through, through now like writing and directing,

what I've kind of learned is that that like not every actor needs to knock it out of the park and be the star, you know, like for for what I can do is like go in and support and be of service to the story as a whole, you know, and make like, am I giving the story what it needs? And it really takes the attention off of me, which in a way that is. Bands need bass players. Yes. And bass players don't usually get solos, but they need them, you know? Yeah. And also, I mean, there's also something I was lucky enough to, Julia Louis-Dreyfus had a show called The New Adventures of Old Christine. And I got to do a few episodes of that.

So I got to know her a little bit and there's going into a situation like the, and Matt Walsh is a very, is one of my oldest friends in the world. So I, you go into a situation like that and you know, if there are people working around Julia Louis-Dreyfus, there's not going to be any assholes. Yeah. You know what? Because she just won't, A, she's just like the best.

Yeah, she's the coolest. And aside from what you see on screen, she just is just real and fantastic and funny and warm. And so you're going to, you know, you're going to be around a good group of people in a situation like that. And it's just so, and again, that's people that want to have fun. Yeah. Oh, my God.

It's the most fun set I've ever been on. Yeah. It was just the best. So much laughter and everybody's so silly and just having a great time. It was so fun. Yeah. One of the little, I mean, because I get kind of, you know, like research prepared for me for these and there's just this, this funny log, you know, this funny line in it.

No, it's just because it's, I mean, it's mostly cold from interviews and stuff, but it said, one of the things was she said she was very closeted when making but i'm a cheerleader and that was just really interesting to me because it made me think what what went through your mind when they gave you that job like did you feel like oh shit they're on to me it no i mean i i jamie babitt, who is the director of that movie, I was in a short film of hers. That was also like a gay story. And I played, I played Clea, which was a part that she wrote for me, but she still made me audition for it, which I thought was rude. Oh shit. Call her Jane or something then.

Yeah. I was new. I understand why she did it, but it was truly the worst audition I've ever done in my entire life. Cause I was so nervous. I was like auditioning to play myself for my friend. It was very awkward, but she still gave me the part. And she had talked to me about cheerleader before. And so, I mean, and asked me to be in it before there was even a script. So I, you know, I was super into it and I was very involved in, you know, kind of shaping my character and a part of the process of casting and all of that. So I didn't really like think about it because I don't, you know, and I still am this way where I don't think about that what we're doing is ever going to become a thing that other people are going to experience.

Like, I am so focused on the making of the thing. Yeah. I think that's healthy, though. I mean, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. It never, it doesn't occur to me until much later, like right before it comes out that i'm like oh no people are gonna see this people are gonna see this thing that we've been doing they're not

supposed to see it this is just this thing that we did this way that we spent the summer you know so i yeah it didn't really even occur to me until until we were going to whatever our first festival was i think it was Toronto, maybe. Yeah. And they, and people started asking me questions. And then I was like, oh no, I've made a horrible mistake. Oh, really? But not really. Cause I, I, I loved the movie and I really, I really believed in what we were doing. And it was more just that.

It's such a great movie. It's really fun. Jamie did such an incredible job. I can't believe she was 27 years old when she made that movie. Yeah. Trying to wrangle all of us lunatics. And how old were you and Natasha at that time? I was 21 and Natasha, I think was 19. Wow. Yeah. We were babies. Yeah. See, and it's, it's amazing too, that like you guys have, like, I do love that when I don't know if like your life had the rough patches that everyone kind of realizes Natasha's, you know, that's part of her public story, you know. nice that you guys are still film professionals, healthy, working, you know, productive film professionals and, you know, adults, human beings, you know, because it can be, you know,

it can be so tough that, I mean, was there fallout with you during acting? Because you were, you did get, you know, when you were in so many sort of youth oriented movies so quickly that probably, I imagine most of it occurred sort of when you would be sort of college age instead of being in college, which is when everyone goes and finds out who they are and makes a mess of themselves. Yeah. You're doing it on in public.

Yeah. Was there, was there a fallout period for you? Yeah. I mean, I definitely, I like not in the way that Natasha, you know, not in, not what Natasha went through, but I definitely, you know, I, I was not a very, like, sort of like emotionally evolved person who, you know, I didn't know how to deal with, you know, the traumas that I had experienced in, you know, in real time or at all. Like, I definitely had like battles with alcohol and like you know got sober and really had to like kind of confront all of the things that I hadn't really confronted and it was terrible you know and it really like kind of took me out it it just like made me kind of take a step back to become a human being you know because it you know I starting so young and like having so much success so quickly, it really, you know, it did kind of mess my brain up a little bit

just in terms of like thinking, oh, it's, you know, it's always going to be like this or, you know, the other thing that I wrestled with was really like, do I deserve this? Like, should I have this? You know, it was a lot of like, I don't belong here, you know? And like, what, what was it, what was the voice in your head saying why you didn't deserve it? I think just that I was like, that I was not good enough, you know, that I wasn't good enough that I wasn't, you know, like some of the voices that, you know, that I wasn't like pretty enough or I wasn't skinny enough or I wasn't talented enough or I wasn't, you know, I wasn't straight enough. Like all of the, you know, you can't help but like when you're, I mean, even as like an older person, like it's hard to not compare yourself to people. But as a young person, when you are literally sitting in a room full of people that like, you know, the people in charge

are being nice to certain people in the room and treating the other side of the room a different way. Like you can't help, but be like, oh, I'm not, I am not this. I am not that. Like it's, it's a lot of what you are not, you know, is, is being communicated to you. And I think it, you know, and also just like stuff with, you know, being gay and like, and coming out and the, you know, my mother didn't handle that in a very good way, but that was not something that I really, I was so like mad about it that I didn't ever really allow myself to experience like the hurt of it. And so I think that was like something that I didn't deal with

for a long time. I just never dealt with anything. And I didn't know that I wasn't dealing with it. I just sort of like moved on and then reached a point in my life, like in my sort of like early thirties where I was like, I should, I can really keep going down the road of like not dealing with things, but that that road is looking kind of hairy, or I can just like kind of get my shit together and deal with that stuff and become, you know, a more whole person. And what form did that process take? Well, getting sober was like a big part of that. And like, really a lot of like allowing myself to like sit in the discomfort, just sit in discomfort, you know, like I think I did everything I could

to like not feel uncomfortable. And then that sort of like turned into just not feeling at all, you know? And I wasn't the most empathetic person. I wasn't like, you know, I was not the best version of myself in any way. And, but letting, I don't know, there's something about like sitting in that, sitting in any way. And, but letting, I don't know, there's something about like sitting

in that, sitting in discomfort and not like an understanding that, that it, it, it is something that passes, like, even if it takes a while was like such a valuable thing for me to do because I was just so afraid to feel anything, which is ironic because my whole job was to sort of like feel things, but I was so like, so protective that I couldn't really do it. I mean, imagine therapy was probably a part of that. Yeah. Yeah. I went to therapy. It's in therapy. I did a lot of, I read a lot of books, which was, were really helpful. You know, you got, I know it's nerdy. It's definitely nerdy. And like books are for losers, but I mean, at least books on tape, you know, when you're driving

around going to party to party or things. Oh yeah. Yeah. I would listen to a lot of books while I was partying. So it was helpful. When did you start to feel like, okay, I mean, was there some point, something that happened where you started to feel like, okay, I'm getting a handle on it? Or was it just kind of a gradual process? It was kind of gradual. It wasn't just like one day, like everything got better. It was kind of like after I got sober, things kind of, I mean, it was horrible at first. But, you know, I did.

It was horrible or you were horrible?, it was horrible at first, but you know, I did, you know, it was horrible or you were horrible. Getting sober was horrible. Like it felt horrible to just like, I don't know if you said it or I, you know, no, I don't think I was horrible. I was like pretty, like, I think that I was like drowning in humility. So I was not in any position to be off. I was like not being awful. I was probably my very, um, I think I was probably being nice. Yeah. Um, I'm a nice person. I'm a nice guy. Um, I know, I know it says that in research too. I'm very nice, Andy. Research says best actor and super nice guy, right? Yes, super nice. Okay, good.

Can't you tell my life is full? Was there any point where you thought about doing something else for a living? Yeah, I mean, I always wanted to be a writer. That was the thing that I wanted to do when I was younger before I wanted to be an actor. So going back to that and letting myself start to explore that was also a big part of it, which is still in the same industry but i do i would like to write things that are not movies the tv shows at some point did you find people open to to you doing something different within the industry like writing

and directing yeah yeah it was i had written the script and i i didn't want to um i didn't want to direct it because i i had written myself a part in it because I felt like I never got to just play people. I was always like something tragic or, you know, something that I didn't get to ever just like be, be with my friends in a movie. So I, I didn't, and I didn't think I could write and I didn't think I could direct an act, but then, you know, after enough people were just like, why don't you just direct this? I,

I decided that I would give it a try. And then that happened, you know, like the getting financing happened like kind of soon after making the decision that I would direct it. How does that process work for you, directing yourself? Like, do you have a DP that kind of can give you acting notes too? Yeah, I really relied on Polly Morgan, who is the DP, and then Allison, our script supervisor. They would, I would go to them and basically say, like, did we get, like, I would tell them what I wanted from the scenes technically,

and then also just, just like from myself. And I would go to them and be like, do you think we got that? Do we need to go again? Because it was such a tiny budget. We had so little time that we didn't have playback. So I would just kind of have to trust them that we were getting what we needed. And they were amazing. And I couldn't have done it without them.

Can you feel when you do it right? Because I, I mean, I've never, I mean, I've, I've never, you know, I kind of quasi directed bits, you know, like anything sort of long thing, but like a bit, like I know, like, okay. And I, but I, I always feel like I'm not, I need someone to tell me, And I, but I, I always feel like I'm not, I need someone to tell me, you know, this notion that somehow, and I, I mean, and it goes beyond acting to this notion that like, you should be this sort of self-contained machine of, you know, like self gratifying, self-realize like, no fuck. I need like, was that good? Yeah. Okay. You know?

Yeah. Okay. You know? Yeah. And I mean, and I don't know if it's just in comedy, but you know, that was like everybody I've ever worked, you know, Conan, that was kind of what I would do for him. You know, like he'd be like, how's this joke? And I'd say it's good or it's bad. And, you know, and I always would be honest and want, you know, other people to be honest with me. So it's like the notion of directing yourself acting to me, I just would feel like, yeah, I just did a movie with Chelsea Peretti not too long ago that she directed and she was the star of, and she wrote, directed and starred. And I remember like the first, one of the first days I was like, well, how is that going? And she's like, it isn't. Yeah. It isn't. She goes like it isn't yeah it isn't she goes like I she

said I should have like skipped out of one of the three you know like it's just it's too much and I you know I was amazed watching it and just thought like oh my god I don't think I ever want to do that no I never want to do it again I really really didn't like it. I need a director to let me know if I'm on the right track. Yeah. You know, I, I really, I don't ever want to do that again. By the end of the movie, do you feel like you're getting a good sense of, of whether you're on, you know, like, does it get easier during the movie? Oh, wow. Wow. No, I just hated it. I also, I was just like, why would I want to work with my least favorite actor that makes no sense like i wish that i had given the part to somebody that i liked so much more it was so much more capable um yeah and then to work with the director

who totally neglected me was really not that fun either um i don't think this director likes me very much. Yeah, this writer seems like she fucking hates my guts. She was really cold to me at lunch. Yeah, she didn't say a word. I sat in the bathroom and it was like she totally ignored me. Yeah, it's just not for me. And there are so many actors who can do it, who can do both. And I really admire it because I just don't have a sense of does this, like we can never

perceive ourselves the way other people perceive us. It's just like not possible. So it's, you know, and also sometimes in acting, I think like I, what I sort of learned to make it easier for myself is like, sometimes if something feels bad, it doesn't mean it looks bad. And oftentimes, like when I am feeling my most uncomfortable, that's when the director is like, oh yeah, whatever you're doing, keep doing that. And it's like, oh, just self-loathing. No problem. And it's like, oh, just self-loathing. No problem. But it's you know, when you when I am the director to myself as an actor, it's like then there is no sort of like separation between like what is felt and what is seen, you know, because it's so it's just I just don't want to do it. And I love other actors and I love writing parts for people. And it just seems like so much more fun to do it and I love other actors and I love writing parts for people and it just seems like so much more fun to do that if you could only do one of the three writing directing acting from now on which which do you think you would pick oh and also like what do you like and dislike about each

one it's an essay question yeah yeah I mean maybe I would, I think I would pick directing. Yeah. Why? I love, I love the collaboration aspect of directing, getting to work with all the different departments and, you know, building a world and figuring out like, you know, what, what everything's going to look like and then like having a picture in your head and then executing it and being able to create that outside of yourself is really cool and i love editing i just love all the different steps of of filmmaking and so getting to to do that i think is more fun even though like it's so like it is so scary and every day you're like well something's gonna go wrong today what is it you know but that's also really fun too I like problem solving and um working with all the different people um and then I mean I really I do love writing I love having you know like the way that I write is I always start with just like one image in my head

and then I kind of build around that or a character or a moment or something and then it all grows from there and that's really cool and you know coming up with characters and then them feeling so real and again building a world that you know that other people get to see like that's really exciting and then acting is acting is fun acting as a when it when you are when when you are in forgive the term but like like in the zone and you're working with like a great group of people it's just so much it's so much fun it's really thrilling um so yeah i mean i like i like all, but if I had to pick one, I would be direct. What, uh, what are the, like the downsides of, of writing for you? Is there limitations of writing that you don't?

It's, it's lonely. Yeah. It's, you know, sometimes it takes a long time to, to break the story. And so like, I'll just spend like months just thinking about something and nothing is, it seems like nothing is happening, but that is the part of the, that is part of my process anyway, of just thinking about it. And then, you know, eventually I sit down and I start writing and it's all there.

So it's like my brain has been working, but it feels like you're just like stuck in quicksand. The quicksand moments are tough. Yeah. Do you often collaborate writing wise i yeah i know you've been you did was it were a showrunner on uh high school was it yes on high school and but i mean was that but those are because those are you know tv shows are usually a collaborative atmosphere where even if it says written by it means you know written by jane smith it's really it was jane and 10 other people you know well on high school it it's just me and laura kittrell

who's the co-showrunner co-writer we write oh okay we we wrote all the scripts so that yeah that was we definitely collaborate and that that's really fun. I really like working with Laura a lot. She's really talented and we work really well together. Working with other people is so much more fun than working alone. Yeah. But. Why do you still, why do you still work alone then? Because they're just, they're set for features.

I feel like it's easier to have a singular vision. like it's easier to have a singular vision um and even with tv like that it was because i was directing so many of the episodes it was easier to sort of like wrap like wrap my head around the high school as like one big like one big long movie um yeah features i think are easier to write with one person even though it's extra it's excruciating sometimes going forward um i mean what what what would be your ideal situation going forward what would you like are there things you haven't done that you would that you'd like to do or is it just kind of continue on the same path i I mean, I would like to, I'd like to make another movie. I really loved, there's a script that I wrote before, in between my first movie and my second movie

that's a story that I really love that is like kind of weird. But it just, it feels very personal to and I and it's also a little scary to me because of how personal it is but um I'd really like to make that I don't know I just want to keep I would love to keep writing and directing when you say personal I mean is it I mean like it will it be like oh this like one of those things where people will be like, oh, this is Clea talking about Clea. I think in some ways, like it's not about my life at all. It's more of these sort of like, I don't know, it's sort of like the more wading through some of the more challenging aspects of being a human being. Yeah. Yeah. When you write from personal experience, and this is me, this is me, like I said, I'm trying to write something

longer and I'm, and I'm like, just thinking like, what's my mom going to think? You know, like, you know, I mean, it'll be like things I will want them to be sort of camouflaged, Like, you know, I mean, it'll be like things I will want them to be sort of camouflaged. Yeah. But there's like so many things where I just like I have a story about that guy and that guy is going to know. Yeah. It's like, how do you deal with that? I mean, I I've really just written about my own experiences so far. So it's not, you know, I haven't,

I always kind of stay away from the things that are about other people's stories. Like I don't, I would never want to, I would never want someone else to feel like I was sort of like, you know, stealing their story or. Sure. But your story involves other characters yes i i haven't i mean anything that is like to that that degree of personal i've kind of stayed away from just

because i don't think i'm smart enough yet to really like write about those things maybe when i'm older in terms of to get away with it or smart enough to be... No, no, no. To have enough of a grasp of it. To have enough of a grasp and to have anything interesting to say. You know, like, I don't know if I'm like... I don't know. Like, maybe when I'm older, I'll be able to write about that stuff. That's a wonderful thing to hear you say, you know, because to be able to be a storyteller and say there's still stories that are my stories that I'm not ready to, you know, open the lid on that jar yet. It's wonderful self-knowledge, I think.

Yeah. So congratulations on your self-knowledge. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Because that was on the list as well of things. It is. It is. Yeah. So congratulations on your self-sabotage. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Because that was on the list as well of things. It is. It is.

Yeah. It said profoundly self-aware. Yes. And humble. Yes. Modest. Yes. And it said don't pronounce the H.

It's humble. Yeah. Well, we're ne in the end here. And the final thing I always ask people is the what have you learned question. I mean, do you feel like that there's some sort of moral to the CLIA story that you can knit on a cross stitch on a sampler and hang above the mantle? you know, knit on a cross stitch on a sampler and hang above the mantle? I mean, I don't know that it's in a good, that it's like a one line, a one pillow, a one pillow thing.

You can have more pillows on the couch if you want. I mean, I think it's that, I think for me, like the balance that I need balance, you know, I need, I need, um, fulfillment from work and friends and family. And that, that happiness doesn't come from one place and self-worth doesn't come from one place. Does that, does that kind of balance, is it happening kind of naturally to you now, is it still something that takes work and upkeep? I wouldn't say it's like work and that it's like so hard, but I think it's something that I can easily forget, you know, especially like I'll find myself getting like a little bit down and then I realize like oh I haven't really been connecting with my friends that much or or I haven't really been like taking care of myself or I'm not you know I'm I'm focusing so much on work that I'm not spending time with my family I think it's just like always sort of keeping an eye on like am I feeding am I am I feeding, am I, am I feeding everything equally or am I putting too much importance on one thing, which, you know, it's, it happens. And I think it's just like, I, but I do

notice now that when I start to feel a little bummed, it's because I'm not, um, because I'm putting too much significance on one thing, expecting one thing to like fulfill all of me. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for taking this time. Let me run down. You've got a house broken on Fox and you will be guest starring on an episode of Natasha Lyonne's series poker face. Yes. It is. It's coming out March 9th. I don't know if this will be on, you know, by then or what. I don't know when that, and that's not my department. But boy, is that show fun.

It's the best. I'm so envious. I've always thought like, why can't we do a Quinn Martin kind of thing? And it's like, she went and did it, you know? She and Rian Johnson went out and made Rockford Files again. And it's just. Yeah, it's so cool. I love it.

It's just the kind of TV just that sort of roving stranger coming into town and solving problems. It doesn't happen anymore. I feel like it was 70% of my TV diet growing up. It was. Yeah, yeah.

I look forward to seeing that. Oh, I was just going to say also on Freebie and Amazon, I have a show, the show that we were talking about earlier, High School, and all the episodes are out now. Okay, great. Yeah. Well, check them all out. And Clea, thank you so much. And I hope we run into each other on campus one of these days. Yes, I hope so.

Now that the world has opened up. All right. Well, thank you so much. Thank you. It was so nice talking to you. It was great. And thank all of you out there for listening. And I will be back next week with more of whatever this was.

The Three Questions with Andy Richter is a Team Coco production. It is produced by Sean Doherty and engineered by Rob Schulte. Additional engineering support by Eduardo Perez and Joanna Samuel. Executive produced by Joanna Solitaroff, Adam Sachs, and Jeff Ross. Talent booking by Paula Davis and Gina Batista with additional booking support from Maddie Ogden. Research by Alyssa Graal. Don't forget to rate and review and subscribe to The Three Questions with Andy Richter wherever you get your podcasts.