The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Ellie Kemper

Episode Date: January 24, 2023

Ellie Kemper (The Office, Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt) joins Andy Richter to discuss growing up in the Midwest, her dream job, the chaos of New York City, and much more.

Hello, everyone. We are podcasting. I'm talking. I'm very happy to be talking today to a really lovely person and a very talented person. And those things often don't go together. It's Ellie Kemper. Hi. to a really lovely person and a very talented person. And those things often don't go together. It's Ellie Kemper. Hi!

Here we are. And you're in New York City, where you live. Yes, City of Dreams. City of Dreams. Is that what it is? Yeah. City of... 2023. City of Dreams, although they're sort of indecipherable

and really seem to do... they're nothing but anxiety dreams. Yes, exactly. Panic dreams. Because, I mean, you've lived in New York. You never really have been an L.A. person, have you? Well, I lived there for a few years. I think maybe five. I lived there for five years.

Oh, when you were doing the office. Yes. Yeah. But that was even at first, it felt like, oh, are you actually living there? Are you just living there while they're shooting? Right. But then I've been back here for a while. And before the office, I lived here for what? Nine years, I think. Yeah. So it's been and you lived here. How long were you here? I was there. Well, they're like for a year and a half in the early 90s yeah and then I was and then I was there from 93 to 2001 yeah so eight years and I felt it took about 10 years living in LA before I really

felt like I'm I gotta admit I live in LA now so do you and right right and that and that yeah I mean I've been here I've been here for 20 years now. I mean, 21, 22 years now. Wow. So do you feel at all an allegiance to New York or like, but I'm actually, I know you didn't grow up here, but do you feel that? Not anymore. But honestly, I don't feel a particularly, a particular allegiance to anything. I don't think I do. To anywhere. You know what I mean? Not even the Midwest? Oh, to the Midwest, definitely. I mean, I will always be a Midwesterner, as I'm sure you probably. I feel

that. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm kind of fine with that. You know, I don't, and I think everybody sort of has, you know, Southerners are always Southerners and Westerners are always, you know, like if you grow up in Idaho, you're always going to be sort of a cow person. Exactly right. But I actually, I have found though, in going back to Illinois in the last few years, I enjoy it much more. And I feel like much more kind of just to have a soft spot. And it's not, it's not just Chicago and it's not just like a Cubs game.

It's just, it's like driving around out in the rural parts of the suburbs. I just feel, you know, like, okay, this is, and I hate to say it, but it's like, I belong here. Like, this is kind of where I should be. Absolutely. And you're like, but I'm not. belong here. Like this is kind of where I should be. Absolutely. And you're like, but I'm not. Do you mean you feel a soft spot now that you didn't used to feel upon returning or that you didn't feel when you lived there? Well, when I lived there, I was so young, you know, that I, you know, I just, I was dissatisfied with being alive. Sure. Who wasn't?

So it wasn't like that, but no, now it's definitely, and it's also, it's just like changes in my life, you know, similar to the fantasy I have. Like when I was 18, I thought, oh, I'm going to grow up and have four children. Well, I'm not going to have four. I have two children and that's it. But similar to that, even though I'm now 42, I do sort of feel like, no, no, but I'm going to like return to my hometown and raise my family there, but I'm already, I mean, it's not, maybe I will. I'm already doing it. I probably won't, but there does feel when I do return. And of course I'm never there for long enough for things to get stressful, but it does feel like I go outside and things seem calmer. Like in New York, I mean, it's New York City.

It's a major city. There's a lot going on at any given moment. And you really feel like, especially as I get older, just the anxiety. It's a stressful place to be at times. I didn't used to get that. And then I think when I'm going back and forth, having lived there and going back and forth, you step out on the street and the, you know, cortisol levels, like the chemicals in your brain that says, I better keep an eye out because shit might go down. They just go up. Oh my gosh. When

you step out, when you go to the corner to buy an orange, you know, They jump up. And suddenly you're in, I don't know, I can't use this word. So I won't, it is, I can't believe I'm opening with or whatever, but this involves the use of the C word, like the worst word. Do you know what that is? Yes. Yes. Okay. Sure. I'm not going to say it. Okay. So I'm going to say the C word, but last year I had just moved into this new apartment building. I live near central park. I was leaving my apartment at like 2 PM. Like the sun is out. It was a weekday afternoon. I was going for a jog, literally step outside and a man shouts at me, go back to Rikers Island, you C word. And I was like, you, I just walked out. So that doesn't happen to me in the Midwest. Were you wearing like an orange jumpsuit?

It was such a strange, was it an insult or was it? It was then i was like i felt he was on a bike so it was very quick and he he you know uh you say you i i that is how midwestern i am i literally can't say that word do you never say that word or does it take never in your in your life i guess when i told michael mike coman what happened that day i used that word but i would never use that word i do use i mean sometimes do i swear i swear to like but it feels like an act like it's like i'm inhabiting i care i don't know right but that that might i don't want to i don't want to like attribute that that to the midwest i'm it might just be my thing we didn't curse in my family.

We still don't. Oh, no. My mother swore like a truck driver. Oh, so there you go. Yeah. My younger and my dad too, but my mom especially would be like to the point where when my younger brother and sister who are nine years, they're twins and they're nine years younger than me. When they got to an age like 14, 15, they didn't swear because it was mom's thing. Like they wouldn't say fuck because like, no, that's reminds of them of mom. Oh, like it was uncool. Yeah. Or just that it was just like, yeah, like, it was distasteful. Yeah.

Cause my mom, cause I, my, my mom, mom, I mean, and I'm not exaggerating. There would be times when I'd be talking to her on the phone. And when my younger brother and sister were younger, I was out of the house. They were still there. And she'd be talking to me. And she'd go, well, you know, this guy on this job said, hold on a second. Will you kids shut the fuck up? Anyway, so yeah, this guy said.

And they're like eight or something, you know? Were they well-behaved? Pretty, yeah. Yeah, they were like, yeah, they're not. I mean, it got the job done. Because you are one of how many? So you have the twin? I have an older brother.

And then I have a younger brother and sister that are actually my half brother and sister. Because they have a different dad. My mom from her second marriage. She had kids too. Okay. So yeah, I'm one of four. But I'm kind of like the middle because they were sort of, you know, two for one. And then my brother was the older one., you know, two for one. Right.

And then my brother was the older one. Yeah. Right, right, right. Yes. And how many of you, and you're from, you were born in Kansas City, but grew up in St. Louis, right? That's right. Yes.

Born in Kansas, moved there, moved to St. Louis when I was in kindergarten. And I have, I'm also one of four. I have an older brother, two years older, younger sister, and then a younger brother. So I'm, I'm one of four. I have an older brother, two years older, younger sister, and then a younger brother. So I'm one of four. And my two younger siblings now live in Los Angeles, which is so unexpected. Like, it's just weird that, I don't know, of a family that grew up in St. Louis, it's like two of us live in Los Angeles. One lives in New York. My older brother lives in St. Louis.

But anyway, it just seems, I don't know why that seems unexpected, but it does. So there you go. Yeah. Now, why the move to St. Louis? Because, I mean, because Kemper, that's like a, it's an old family in Kansas City, right? Well, I, my, I mean, to be honest with you, I don't really know that much. This sounds very strange, but I don't know that much about, because I didn't grow up in Kansas City. I feel grateful for that because my family started a bank years ago, a century ago, I don't know, a long time ago. And so that started in Kansas City. Moving to St. Louis, I think, was good. I'm glad my parents did that because it was a new city. Like, it didn't have that.

And you didn't have the baggage. Yeah, exactly. And not to say that it was, oh, some huge name in Kansas City, but maybe more recognizable in Kansas City than in St. Louis, which is nice. And in St. Louis, it was, I think my dad was, they were planning on only moving there for like five years and then ended up staying. So I feel really grateful for that. I haven't, I mean, I don't have, this is boring to say, but I mean, I had a very, I had a good childhood. You keep wondering how I'm going to finish the sentence. I'm like, I had, well, but I had a good childhood.

I mean, so I feel, I'm like really very, very lucky to be able to say that. So then your folks are still together. They're still together. They're still alive. I just saw them. They're still together and they're still alive. Those two things usually don't go together because somebody ends up killing somebody. Well, give it time. Life is long, but we were all just together in, so my younger sister lives in Pasadena with her family. So we all went out to Pasadena for the holidays. Oh, nice. It was a weirdly, very weirdly drama-free gathering.

I have no, I don't know how that happened. I mean, not that there are usual, like, big outbursts, but it was, you'll gossip with one sibling, and then you sort of backstab them like with the other. I mean, it's nothing like too bad, but you're double talking. No, no. Yeah, no. Absolutely.

There's all kinds of, and there's times when I think about like, I wonder what these fuckers are saying about me. Oh, yeah. And I know that they're saying stuff, but what are you going to do? I don't know. Yeah. know that they're saying stuff, but you know, what are you going to do? I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I personally feel like being, doing the job you and I have trains you to go, oh, I can't control what people are saying about me. And I mean, and you know,

like, cause you get used to it, like on the internet and then you can just bring it into like, well, I don't, you know, I think my, my aunt is judging me and it's like, well, okay, I'll just treat it like somebody on Twitter. You know, that's exactly, do you know what I can do about it? Yeah. I don't know that I, again, consciously use that, um, like device, that strategy, I guess, but that's really smart because I don't know. When did you first, I first read a mean comment about me when I was on The Office and I was like really upset about it. So maybe this was, let's see, 2009 was when I started appearing. And it was so mean and I agonized over it for, I don't know, days. And it was just, and the anonymity didn't help. I was still just like, it doesn't matter that I don't know, days. And it was just, and the anonymity didn't help. I was still just

like, it doesn't matter that I don't know this person, a stranger, it makes it worse. I guess a stranger said this about me. And especially having gone through a life of being supported, you know, like nobody was yelling at me, like you're a fucking idiot, you know, or you're ugly. You know, I mean, I certainly wasn't coddled, but I mean, but you do, you step out into this really weird arena where all of a sudden, like, people have no qualms whatsoever about saying just heinous shit about this shit and it's like are you still learning that i i don't think people are going around saying really i don't think that you and i are like oh having to trudge through all this negative yeah but it does but still at the same time for me nobody cares that much but it is it's just this you just can't if you're going to be upset about it, then you can't look at it. Like you just said, you can't control what they're saying.

You have to understand that, you know, this isn't somebody. You don't know this person. You don't know anything about them. So you can't really listen to what they're saying for that very reason, I guess. I don't know, but that's hard. Yeah. There's a balance because I don't think it's bad to hear criticism. So, you know what I mean?

So, like, I know, like, Conan, for instance, says he doesn't read anything, you know. But, I mean, but he also, too, was, like, on the bow of an icebreaker, you know, of, like, critical, just in an ice flow of just critical garbage for so long. Right. So I can understand it. But there's, but when he, you know, he'll say, don't ever, you know, because I've said like, you know, this something, somebody said something shitty, you know, and he'll say, don't read any of it.

And there's part of me, it's like, no,'s like, no, I do want to read some of it. I know what you mean, yeah. Like some of it, I feel like I can at least filter through the healthy part of myself that will be like, do they have a point? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And that feels healthy. Because like you, I was not bullied as a kid.

It's not like I don't feel that I had to overcome some major like circumstances that where I felt like I'm not good enough. I'm the underdog, whatever it was. So it does come maybe as a greater shock when people say, I mean, things like, but the other thing is that so much of it does seem unfounded, but then there are other parts,

like with anything, like a director giving you notes, whatever it is. Well, you have to listen to that. i mean that's right that's healthy criticism so yeah i guess it's just the we're in this i mean this is nothing new we're in this age now where just anybody can say anything yeah and and again whether uh whether they're in a position to or not then right the thing is, what did I do? I responded on my, like, years ago, I posted, like, a trailer for an animated thing I was in.

And someone, like, a commenter said, you can't, like, this is an ad. You need to hashtag ad. And I took the bait. I was, like, I, like, emailed my agent. Do I need to be, am I going to be sued? Do I need to do ad? They said, no, this isn't an ad. It's like a trailer for the.

And so I responded to the person. I said, you know what? I checked and it's not an ad. And like sweet, silly me. Because I was trying, I thought, oh, I'm going. There was a part of me that I think was indignant and wanted to let it be known that I wasn't doing anything wrong. Yes. But then I also assumed.

Fuck me, no fuck you. Yeah, exactly. How dare you? How dare you? Under the Fuck me, no fuck you. Yeah, exactly. How dare you? How dare you? Under the guise of like civil discussion. Right, right. And then the person was not interested in like, didn't actually, of course the person didn't actually care whether I was hashtagging it as an ad.

No. They just wanted to like get in and I fell for it. So it's, it feels like when I'm removed from it, it feels like far away and like, oh, that seems like a waste of time. But when you're in it, when you're actually affected by it, I don't know if you've gotten affected. It's very, very upsetting. I mean, I don't do it so much anymore, but I used to. I mean, I definitely used to get, I'd argue with people, especially because I, you know, like I, and I used to be a lot more publicly political because I, I liked being publicly political. And it's a big part of kind of like who I was.

It's still a big part of who I am, but it's less a part of who I am because I'm just, I'm so tired. Well, I was going to ask you. So very tired. So very tired. You know. I'm so tired. Well, I was going to ask you. So very tired. So very tired. But that's, so that's, so I wanted to ask you if, why have you become, is it because of, yeah, like that's enough or? Yeah, it's enough. And I just, and I think that I had some sort of idea that I could do something to make things better. Yeah. There's, there There's truth to you have a platform, whether it's whatever, you know, whether you're on a TV show and you're giving interviews or whether you have a Twitter account with lots

of followers or Instagram or TikTok or whatever. And hey, while we're here, why don't I let people know that teachers should be paid more or something, you know, and, you know, and for me, it was, you know, a lot of it would be things like guns are a problem. Oh, yeah. You know, like I used to get very engaged about guns. And then I stopped. And I mean, and it got ugly and weird and scary, you know, DMs, scary DMs and things like that. So I kind of backed off.

Yeah. Yeah. I made a crack. I mean, I made an observation about QAnon people. Mm-hmm. I made an observation about QAnon people, and my ex-wife got calls on her home phone from people asking for me. I just made kind of a character judgment on people who believe in fantasies. I know.

I can't do that much. I mean, you know, I helped raise money and things like that. And I helped, you know, in the last presidential election helped sign up poll workers and sign up canvassers, you know, and I mean, it was in a way that there was tangible, like, oh, this thing that I, that I posted got this many responses and can be linked to this much money. But in terms of like following it like I used to every day and have it. Right. It's just too much. It's too debilitating.

And humans are too basically corrupt. No, I know. That's the other thing I've gotten to is humans are basically corrupt. I know. You just kind of got to like, oh, yeah, everybody's, you guys are basically corrupt. I know. You know, you just kind of got to, like, hell yeah, everybody's going to skim a little. I know. And it feels, that feels really discouraging.

Because, like you said, you feel, okay, I'm visible. There's a platform. Yes, like, post a selfie of you with your dinner. But then also encourage people to go out and vote. That seems pretty benign. Yeah. But then it's and I have no idea if something like that moves the needle or not. I don't know what never like my whole life I've not been that political or outspoken in any and not about really anything that has to do with politics or any of certainly nothing i don't weigh in on guns i mean like before 2016 never did and so then it felt very new but also urgent especially for

our uh last what 2020 yeah election to do something because it did feel urgent. Right. Pretty important. Yeah. And so that was my first like dance with people disagreeing with you in a really sort of aggressive way or sticking your neck out in any way. to the thought that like, I don't know, which is this, which is I don't understand what social media, if it is a net positive, because is anyone, are you just in an echo chamber? Like, so if you tell people to say, go out and vote, are most of the people you're talking to already going out? And then the people who aren't going to vote, they're not going to. Preaching to the choir. Kind of. Yeah. So that feels, but I understand, well, especially if you're getting phone calls to your house. Well, no, then you have to take your foot off the ground. And that's depressing because it's like, why can't you just speak intelligently with people about this? Right, right.

And also, there's also an element of it where you're succumbing to bullying. I know. Basically. And it's like, you're not supposed to do that. I know. Like we teach our kids, like stand up to bullying. Right. But then it comes to like, oh no.

This is dangerous. Crazy people. Crazy people. Who love guns. I know. Knowing where, you know, my kids live. Yeah. Wait, and then that's a different issue.

And like, and kids live. Yeah. Wait, and then that's a different issue. And like, and necessarily so. Can't you tell my loves are growing? What we were saying, because it seems like a conversation I have with a lot of people, oh, I don't get social media, but I do not understand it. And also, I can tell you this, is that it has made me dumber. Just all of it. Just taking up my time scrolling through that instead of just reading a book is really idiotic. Oh, I, there's books that if they could speak, they would, in my house, that just would like be constantly making fun of me.

Yes. Remember when you bought me? How you were interested in me and all the all the knowledge i could impart to you i know instead of and then it is also this oh boy it it doesn't it when i when did you join twitter was it like at the very beginning it was kind of early-ish i think it was um i want to say like i think it was 2010 2010. Oh, yeah, that feels early. 2009. Yeah.

Yeah. I still am fairly active on Twitter and I like Twitter. Oh, you do? Yeah, I'm scared. I do. I found, well, I mean, aside from, you know, from the things like when there's a revolution in the Mideast, you know, when you get better news more quickly from that, you know, and like when there's things happening in the streets or like in Ukraine, you'll find things out there on Twitter. Well, that's a very good point.

Aside from that important part of it, I made a lot of friends and I became part of like a joke writing club. Like we would just write jokes for each other, you know, like, and, and, you know, and there's a lot of just like dumb jokes that I come up with that I'm not going to jot them down and keep them in a book. I mean, you know, I just put it on, you know, like Twitter. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just because it's fun.

I like, you know, making funny jokes. And that part feels like a good use of it. And, but do you know what I want to say, ask you is, I don't know, I don't write jokes, but do you have to like triple check to make sure

nothing can be misinterpreted? Like, is there any fear? You learn. I learned, you know, I learned there's certain jokes that aren't funny anymore. Right.

And I know lots of men my age, and it's almost always men my age who are in comedy, who just like that. I mean, that's another reason why I like being on Twitter is because I know like I would sometimes be at the show that I worked on and one of a man my age or a little younger would pitch a joke and I would be able to say, oh, no, no. Yeah. They're not, the kids aren't laughing at that anymore.

Right, right, right, right, right, right. I was kind of, you know, eavesdropping on the conversation of younger people. Right. Which is necessary. Yes. Yeah. So, and also, and it makes you grow and it forces you to kind of, and it forces you to. Reassess, yeah.

Yeah, to reassess your own kind of values and things. But then also, too, I make jokes that, like, people in my life will be like, what are you doing? Like, that's really dirty, or that's really gross, or that's really stupid. And I'm just like, eh, whatever. What do you want? What do you want? It's not going to sit in your drawer. I'm going to say it. My favorite, because I'm on Instagram, not Twitter, but I do really like posting things

that you know no one's really going to think is that funny besides the people you know really well. Yes. And I just, that is satisfying to me in some stupid way. It's probably not savvy. Like if you're from like a brand perspective. savvy. Like if you're from like a brand perspective. Oh, I mean, the amount of time that I think using my social media accounts strategically is non-existent. And my fiance is like, you got to get more Instagram followers. And I'm like, how? By posting videos and me saying

funny things? Yeah, exactly. No! A music video. I know. That's it. And so it's like, well, okay, if I did that, yes, I might attract more followers. But how fucking thirsty is that? Well, that's what I think. And some people are fantastic at it. Here I am again, hoping you like me. That's it?

That's our whole fucking life, though. I mean, that's our whole fucking life, though. I mean, that's. Do you remember when, I always think of this, because when you could, I'm not on Facebook, but when I used to be, and you could write on someone's wall on Facebook. Yes. And it could be like, you're the best. Happy birthday or whatever. And I remember thinking at the time, this is insane.

This is a love, a self-love fest. And people are just. Right, right. Like, allowing these things to be seen. And now it is just not only customary, but to be expected to just post things that you're doing. Pat yourself on the back. It's outrageous. It's like, and wait, I do it?

I mean, I don't know if you do it, but it's like so twisted and bonkers and like not healthy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, it's there's varying levels of it. There are varying levels. Yeah, yeah. Can't you tell my love's a crow? Now that we're talking about being in the public eye and just kind of like having the urge to get in front of people,

when did that sort of start for you? Early. You know, you were a good student and you were kind of like, and you were, you know, an athlete and stuff. And like, how does, you know, being a comedy person fit into that? I always say, so Michael is like truly what I would call a comedy nerd. My husband, he like has- Oh, right?

Oh, yeah. Total nerd. Oh, boy. But knows, just has the whole like lexicon. He just knows every comedy movie ever, every comedian, every, and I always, and he's always shocked at the things I haven't seen or comedians I haven't heard of. And I always say to him, because I had a normal childhood with friends, that's like my comeback, but it's sort of true. So what I mean is that like,

so I, when I say that I'd like to perform, or I guess be in the public eye from an early age, you know, I did the thing like most, a lot of households do, which is we would put on shows for our parents and invite the neighborhood parents over and just like plays in the front hall and Christmas, like choreographed dances for like our Christmas show and all that stuff. And then I was always in like the musicals

in elementary school and then middle school and high school. I was always in the plays, usually the musicals. And I think that sort of goes hand in hand because I was also like an athlete. I ran track and I played field hockey, but I really love, this is sick, but I love the praise that came with it. So when I say that, I'm like, oh, you like the attention. So that's what I mean when I say I liked performing from an early age, because I did like being in the, again, I'm not proud of of this but I enjoyed being in the limelight so well yeah but that's I mean if you were shitty at it no one would have said much you know what I mean yeah right I hope so

I hope I haven't been discouraged but it was something that like yeah I did always like performing and and yeah but it wasn't until college that I really, I got more interested, I guess, in comedy. Because I don't know how you were, like, I think that my family's funny. I don't know if it's the same. Like, I think that we have the same sense of humor and we understand, like, we make each other laugh.

But there's no, like, professional comedians in my family. Like, in my lineage, I just, there's no, comedians in my family, in my lineage. There's no show business. I do think my parents are extremely funny people, though they don't earn money from being funny. They don't do professional. Sure, sure. But it was that. So I think that when I was in college, I was in my improv group. Every college, I guess, has an improv troupe.

And I was. Well, you're younger than me because I don't. I mean, I think that's a more of a recent thing, you know, because improv. Yeah. You had to explain what it was to people when I started doing it. And now everyone's like, oh, fucking improv. Oh, absolutely. Oh, my college now has, I think, like, I'm not kidding, like 11 improv troupe. When I was there, there was one. oh, fucking improv. Oh, absolutely. Oh, my college now has, I think like, I'm not kidding, like 11 improv.

When I was there, there was one. Yeah, exactly right. I was coming in at the era of like, oh, we know what this is. And my group was called Quip Fire. Like we're firing quips. Quips. Yep, sure. Quips firing.

And I really, really liked it. And that was my, and I felt like I was good at it. And that was my introduction to, like, we went to Chicago for one of our tours. And I got to see Second City and ImprovOlympic. And I felt like, oh, this is really something that I didn't know you could do after college. And you could continue to do as an adult. So it was really in college that my eyes were opened. But I felt like this is feasible, you know?

It's also really fun. Oh, my gosh. For me, it was always, it isn't even so much, you know, I thought like, oh, I'm going to be on SNL or anything like that. And it was weird to me, especially because I'm from Chicago. So it was all there. It wasn't like I went anywhere to find it. It just kind of was there. And friends of mine that were already kind of acting and that I was in film school with started to do it.

Yep. And then I'd go see it and I'd just be like, holy shit, that's fun. Right? You know, yeah. And it's just like, I want to learn to do that. And then I want to do that. And then I want to hang out with those people. I know.

And the hanging out with the people was always, I mean, even to this day, making TV shows. You know, the best part of working for Conan O'Brien was then I went to work every day with literally some of the funniest people in the world. That's right. In the world. Imagine. And we just got to fuck around and make each other laugh. That was like 80% of the day, and then 20% was, well, we got to do a show. We got to do the tech checks.

Yeah, yeah. But yeah, it's unbelievably lucky, fortunate to be able to do that. That was the thing, was that in this group, like I had been on team sports teams and I had, like I said, done like the school musicals, but improv in particular, I felt there's, you sort of necessarily have to form a bond because you're going up there the whole point, obviously, like you don't know what is going to happen. There has to be a trust there that's established and you are all on the same wavelength. You do find the same things funny.

And like, if you meet another improviser, this sounds really just corny and stupid, but you kind of speak their shorthand, like you kind of have their number already, even if you might not actually have ever met them, You kind of get it. And so to be able to be in, especially for a job like you just described, you get to go to work with these people. Well, that's like insanely lucky. And it didn't ever, I mean, I too didn't grow up thinking, oh, I want to be on Saturday Night. I watch Saturday Night Live every Saturday, but I didn't ever think, Oh, I want to be on that. That's just felt like,

Oh, these are, I don't even know what these people are or how you get there. I was in classes with people that had like moved to Chicago. Cause they wanted to be on SNL. Oh, right. And that was always like,

I'd be like, Oh shit, this is like, I'm just here for fun. Oh, right. You know? And,

and, and, Oh, so did you not think, oh, I want to take this to a professional level? At a certain point, I knew there were people that were doing this for a living, and people

that I knew specifically, like I remember there's a guy named Ken Campbell, who was a Second City guy, and he like, they were like, I think it was turtle races at this bar and he hosted these turtle races and I knew him and he's a great guy. And he got a job on a Fox show called Herman's head. Yes. Do you remember that show? I remember that show. Yeah. Yeah. It was like a guy

and there were like different characters playing the different voices in his head. Yes. And like, Ken got on. So it's like, I know that guy. Yeah. I, you know, like I've hung out with that guy and there he is on TV and everybody's talking, you know,

and everyone's speculating like, how much money is he making? Cause no one had any money. And we're all like, and you automatically assume they're making a million dollars an episode. Right. Absolutely. Yeah.

Yeah. Like that guy, he's gotta be rich now, you know That's what I thought. Yeah, yeah. Like, that guy, he's got to be rich now. You know, like, Jesus, it's all set. Yes, and seeing that become, it's a weird thing. Like, when you see someone you know, television, it feels like, what did it do? Did it change your mind about? A little bit, you know, but I mean, I didn't, it didn't make me, because there were people

that were definitely, like, career, I didn't, it didn't make me, because there were people that were definitely like career oriented. Right. And I just, and I just kind of felt like, I don't think, well, it's just not me. Like, it's just not me to like do the whole, I felt like if something's going to happen, it's going to happen because of work, because of the work that we're doing as a group. Right. of work, because of the work that we're doing as a group. And I was in groups where that was like a divide among the people. Like some people were like, we're not getting enough casting agents in here. And I was like, I don't know how to do that. Let's just keep being funny and trying to get

people in the door, you know? And did you have a, did you have an idea of like when it came to, you know, paying the rent, was that just separate? Was it like, I want to keep doing this because it's fun, but I am not interested in like monetize. I don't know what words. You know, I didn't honestly, I'm not, I'm, I didn't have any concrete plans. Yeah. I just was kind of, you know, taking things as they went and opportunities. Because, you know, there was a show in Chicago called The Real Eye Brady Bunch. It was at the Annoyance Theater and it went to New York and it went to LA.

And I got out of Chicago and started making money as a performer through that. But that wasn't, again, that wasn't like something that I calculated doing. It just happened next to me. And I kind of was, at one point when it was going to New York and I knew there was an opening, I was like, hey, I could do that. You know, and they're like, yeah, sure, come along, you know. And it was, you know, it was $600 a week, which at the time just was like mind-blowing amount of money, you know.

But, you know, and then it just, and then it just kind of built from there. And I, you know, I have a specific memory of being out here with people that I came out here with people from Chicago and we went to the beach and I'm, and I was, I remember driving in my Toyota pickup with like four people in the back and two people in the cab with me, looking at houses in the hills on the drive and thinking that, you know, like not every one of those people is Steven Spielberg or Steven Seagal. You know, like there's, this is an industry, literally, you know. Right. So there's something to do here, you know. Yes, yeah.

And I had gone to film school too. Yes. So I was already kind of used to the idea of making a living within, whether I'm doing props or whether I'm on, you know, whether I'm writing a screenplay or whether I'm on the thing, you know. Right. In some capacity, you would be involved in that industry. Oh, see, that is, I think in my mind, I wanted, once I started taking improv classes at the People's Improv Theater here in New York, doing stuff like that, I thought the goal is to support myself through commercial work. Which, you know, obviously is a pretty common route, if you can, for actors. But that was the only, but beyond that, I think I was similar to you in that with the improv shows and the groups that I was in here in New York,

it was like, it was almost more of a social engagement. I mean, not to be, but it was, like, it was creative. And how can we put on the best show possible and create the, you know, best art? But it was also also it wasn't about like yeah but let's get so and so in here to like yeah yeah sign us or whatever yeah yeah that felt like a different mindset right and yeah and one that i didn't know how to do that anyway i don't have that brain yeah and i don't know how and people who do can do both things well

something creative but also have that business. Yeah. I don't, I just don't have it. So I'm fascinated by them. The only thing, yeah, because I've spent my, most of my life and most of my adult life envying those people. Yeah. Like the people that like just have to be doing something and have to be, you know, like have an iron in the fire that's getting red hot and that's going to, and this is all just probably total rationalization because

I, I mean, I have to force myself to be that more than, than I would normally be because I don't have a job right now. You know what I mean? I do this podcast and stuff, but like, I don't have a job right now. You know what I mean? I do this podcast and stuff, but like, I don't have a regular gig right now. So I have to push myself more than I normally would. Yeah. And, but I do take, I have, I at one point looked, I was like, okay, who in my life is like super driven that way? And I made a little list in my head and then I went, now, which of those people is happy? Oh, yeah. And I was like, holy shit, none of them. None of them. None of them. I know. You know, they all have a hole that cannot be filled. Right. You know. That's right. And so that. Now, I don't know what the answer is. I mean, I just, it's just so I don't feel bad at feeling like occasionally like I am

a bum, you know? I can't believe I fell into this trap. But last week I was just like, got to make some life changes, you know? And like for two days I was convinced I should switch careers because for that reason. For it's like I'm not working right now and I don't know that I have that. I don't want to say it's not ambition, but it's the energy that it takes to sort of go after certain things. And we all know, we're speaking of those friends and acquaintances who do have both. And I'm like tired looking at them because I am tired most of the time. That's another thing. I am tired most of the time.

You've got two kids that are under the age of seven. Well, that's why I don't understand. How is any parent who doesn't have that, or I don't even know what happens as they get older. It's probably more emotionally draining. How is everyone not tired? Maybe everyone just is and people don't complain about it like I do. Right, right. I don't know.

But yes, that combination, again, I keep saying ambition, but it is sort of what it is. But it's a lot. It is. again I keep saying ambition but it is what it is but it's a lot it is and it's a business-minded you know like uh uh driven to a goal goal-oriented kind of thing as opposed to sit around let's see what happens you know maybe the phone will ring and something good will happen exactly and and that I don't know about you I have been whether it's something I made up in my head or been told but I feel like that mindset the one you just described where it's like oh let's see is like somehow not good when in fact I think that's exactly my mindset which is like oh I'm

things I okay I'm gonna of course money is always the issue you have to yeah work to be paid but if if you're in like a dry spell then you feel, well, I don't know if you go down a spiral. I do. I'll never work again. Oh, fuck yes. Fuck everybody. I once saw an interview, and I don't know what they were in together, Gene Hackman and Dustin Hoffman. Oh, wow. And Dustin Hoffman said, when every job's done, there's a part of me that feels like I'll never do it again. Oh, wow. And I believed him. Like, I don't think he was like, I every job's done, there's a part of me that feels like I'll never do it again. Oh, wow. And I believed him. Like, I don't think he was like, I really.

And that way, I was like, okay, good. Yeah, good. You know, like, because, no, I, you know, because I go, like, I haven't done anything. Like, everything I've done is, you know, like, pointless. Who gives a shit? Right. You know, and, like, there's no market out there for this thing that I am, you know, like pointless, who gives a shit, you know? And like, there's no market out there for this thing that I am, you know? Right. And, you know, and then it's like, oh, calm down, you know?

You have to calm down. I mean, not you, everyone, because what, you know, you do what you do. But I also, I had this thing where, like I said, I'm 42 and I had this thing growing up where I just never, it wasn't that I thought I would die, but I just never envisioned my life past 40. I just didn't have an idea of what that would, I don't know. I can't describe it. It's more just like, oh, I'll be 37 then. Yeah, 30. Oh, I don't know what happens after 40.

I don't understand. So now I feel like, oh, wait, but I am 42. And everyone says, oh, no, like, you know, the women who age and also work in entertainment, oh, it's harder on them. I guess it is. I don't know. Maybe it's not. Maybe it's men, too.

But you do feel like. It's way worse for women. It is way worse for women. A thousand times worse for women. Yeah. Don't. Yeah. I just saw a picture.

I just walked by the subway and there was this. Bryan Cranston is in something. And he's like. He has a beard. He looks like Santa. and he looks like an old prospector it's a show called like the judge or something it's like he's a new orleans judge and his son gets in like accidentally kills somebody or something right you know and i'm sure and i'm his biggest fan and i i guarantee you it's a phenomenal show but I just don't think you'd see that woman that

image of that woman with the beard no no no no and then when women look like that they're like touted for their bravery like they get they get awards for being brave yeah no it's and they did this to them yeah yeah and then but I mean he it is different for character actors. And you and I are character actors. We're comedic people. But it's like, it is hard. And it's more so for men who are pretty. It's like the pretty people, their shelf life is shorter, I think. It's rare that there's a pretty person that can get kind of past what this incredibly unfair,

you know, rating system says. We're like, oh, you know what? You're beyond pretty. You're not pretty anymore. Like they're the ones that really get screwed by. Right. Yeah, exactly. Right. But then it's, so it's very, well, it's a weird thing to navigate, but I felt like I had more of that. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. I'm going to do this in like anyone in my twenties and that, and I don't want to be again, like discouraging to anyone, but yeah, I don't, I don't feel like that. I'm tired. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I want to ask because for you, like say like in the next 10 years, like if you could, if you could pick what happens and, and, and I don't just mean job, I mean like job and kids and, you know, like all of it, you know, like thinking of like something, you know, you pick a job for Michael, if you want to, for your husband, if you want to,

but like, what do you like, what would, what would fix it for you? I was just going to bring up the idea of like, I don't know if you do this, but, you know, with a household, you say, okay, well, let's make a three to five year plan or even. And then I often want to reduce that to let's just make a year plan because I don't know what jobs are going to come up for either of us. I don't know what is, you know, as opposed to my parents who moved to St. Louis. My dad had a job at a bank. It was pretty stable and like predictable, meaning that he was going to, we weren't going to have to move again. That's what their lives called for, staying in one place. I feel like as actors and writers that,

you know, of course you might have, and as so many people do for any job, have to move according to where the job takes you. Okay. So it's hard for me to say, okay, I'm going to move to this place and raise my children here because I don't know if a job or an opportunity is going to come up that would take us away for a year. So that always makes it difficult for me to make a plan. And I like your idea of more that it's like, I'm, I'm accepting that not that the boat is, is drifting, but that it's, there's only so much, um, that I can control. And I just got to remain a little bit agile so that I can like stupid use of the word, but pivot when I need to. And so in answer to the question in the next 10 years, I think what I would like is,

and this is very specific to have a job on a sitcom where I'm not there. It's not taking up my entire life, but I'm earning a paycheck and I can also be present with my family. So that's, that's, that sounds like, oh yeah. Hello. Who wouldn't like that? Everyone would like that. But it is, I think that is very difficult to accomplish. And I hope that I can accomplish it because it is important to me to be, you know, revisit working once you have run out of money and need to at a later time? But then I think, no, it is more than financial. I do, like you, enjoy going to work with smart and funny people and I like creating things. So that's there. And so I think the answer is whether it's New York or Los Angeles, because I feel like those are the two most plausible places. I want my kids to have a yard. Again, very concrete.

And I want to be able to have some type of job that I'm able to report to. I don't want to be the boss of it. I don't want to be the boss of it. I don't want to be, you know, in charge of other people. I want to be in charge of myself and I want to be an employee who enjoys her job. That was a little bit rambling, a little bit very specific, a little bit totally vague. But I would say that that's that's the answer for me. And it does feel like, I mean, my children will be so old in 10 years. And it's like, but for me, I don't want to go. I don't want to go that long without working. I want to have the next chapter, I guess. Yeah. So I but but that's what it would look like for me. It's a

good answer. I mean, it's a good answer. Yeah. Because it is like, yeah, that's, I mean, home life, work balance. Like, yeah, people talk about it and it's a cliche because, yeah, it's really fucking hard. And when you get a job, especially like in our thing, what kind of job you get really matters. If you get a job on CSI, say goodbye to your kids, you know, until they, you know, you see them graduate or something. Because you have to work such long, stupid hours. And, you know, and I had the benefit. That was, again, one of the reasons how I'm really lucky. The Conan show, I was home by dinner for, you know, 11 years.

I was home for dinner. That you know, 11 years. I was home for dinner. That is invaluable, I think. Yeah. And that was like the real formative years of my kids, you know? Oh, yeah. So, I'm really lucky in that way. Whereas if I had been doing a single camera show, I don't know, you know? I know.

I would be much more of a stranger, you know. And that's the part that's difficult because we are so lucky to have careers where like, oh, maybe you can, you are in the position to choose what job you want to take. And, you know, that doesn't always happen that you can say no to a job or yes, but it does feel like if there's only one shot at like when they're young, they're only young for this long. And so like if I said yes to a job that turned out to be just like all consuming,

I think I would be in a lot of dramatic, but I would be in a lot of pain because it would feel like I didn't have to take this job. I could have waited for something, you know, that took up less time to form. But you don't really know that until you're in it. So that makes it a little tricky. But I don't know. I mean, I always wonder, like, if you had, if money were no object and you, and you, and you could retire now and only work on like, quote unquote, passion projects,

I still think I would want to be on, I keep calling it a sitcom, but you know what I mean? Not like a laugh track, but just like a comedy, a TV comedy, I think is what, I don't think it's like something more elaborate than that. I think that is what I like doing. And I don't know if you feel the same way where it's like, I feel like, okay, I can do that. No, I absolutely do. I absolutely do. I mean, because between me, I, you know, I got things that I'm trying to develop. I get, you know, I get different, different, you know, ideas for different shows that I'm pushing on, just trying to get something to go. And then there's the other part of me that's just like, oh, why isn't the phone ringing?

Somebody say, come be on my stupid fucking comedy. That's going to be a runaway hit. And then I can just like. Yes. Show up and feel bad then I can just like. Yes. Show up and feel bad that I'm doing such bad work. I know. But getting tons of money for it. Yes.

And it's set up and it's there. You just have to drive to it. Yeah. It's like, I can't. It's like, look, this thing is going to be popular. I could either be watching, you know, be watching it and going like, this is terrible or be watching and going, this thing is going to be popular. I could either be watching it and going like, this is terrible or be watching and going, this is terrible, but look at this house.

But that's it. And nobody faults anyone for anything anymore. I mean, that's not true. But in terms of like selling out or whatever, it's like everyone does everything. So yeah, there's a lot of bad TV out there, but there's a lot of good TV out there. And I'd much rather make good TV. And that's my first choice. But then when I get lazy, that's when I think, can't somebody just hire me to be

an actor? That's absolutely when I just have to show up and, you know, preferably multicam. So I only really have to work more than four hours for just two days a week. And also, and maybe you make enough in a year so that you don't have to do it for more than a year. So you do it for a year and you know you're only doing it for a year. Right. And then it's, that's like so digestible. You do it for a few years and then you're, you know, and then you make some goofy little show for a streamer that, you know, all your friends. Right. Yeah. Right.

Yeah. Yeah. But then to get to that point, what do you have to do? Because that's the thing where it's like, does someone else create the goofy show? Because I don't know if I want to create it, but I want to be in it. So I want someone to do that. Oh, no. I want to give notes to somebody who actually does all the work.

And then when I'm ready to leave, I go like, all right, see you tomorrow. Yeah, that's exactly right. You guys stay here and write it. Bye-bye. But let's be honest. Some people want to do that. Yeah. There are plenty of people we know

who enjoy doing that. And I, burning the midnight oil, that is, and work. And that's, yeah. Let them do it. Good, good. Not everyone can be the boss. Yeah.

Well, I have kept you for so long and I really appreciate it. It's been great talking to you. You know, this format is sort of, you know, questions are. And, you know, the final question, because I think we've answered the other two. Yes. But it's the what what you've experienced. Yeah. Do you have an idea what that is? especially if we're talking about getting started in entertainment or something like that,

I think this will sound dorky, but it is to bet on yourself because you have to, because otherwise no one else will take a chance on you. And again, even though a lot of what you and I've talked about is how we, or I might feel tired and I don't have the energy to do this. When you're starting out, well, of course, you need to have that energy. You need to have that verve and ambition to get started. And whether you feel it or not, whether it's just fake, you should bet on yourself so that you project an air of confidence that people will feel good working with you. The other thing I've learned is sort of more recent, and you and I discussed it, which is an acceptance of not being able to control everything and feeling grateful that I

get to have the job I have. Because especially, I think there were, there were times on, on, on shows that I've worked on where I felt so frustrated and angry that I w I couldn't control the schedule. I couldn't control that. I didn't have a say in certain things. Um, I couldn't control people as we also discussed, we're saying online or, or, or yeah, mostly online, not really to my pace. And accepting that you can't control those pieces is really calming and liberating because it lifts so much stress off your chest where you accept that you can do, you're in control of doing your job well, and part of your job is to put up with what you might perceive as nonsense.

But you just accept that because overall, the position is so lucky. So count your blessings that you get to have, you know, the situation and accept that, you know, the other things are beyond your control. So those are the two pieces of, I guess, wisdom I feel that I've acquired. Yes. Well, again, good answers. I mean, I'm judging. I have a little sheet here. You have a one to ten. Yeah. I'm checking, like, okay, that's a good one. She did mention this right. You're trash. E plus. We got to the end here. B plus. Good job. You know what? I don't want to be the A student. If anything, you should have taken that away from our discussion.

We're not interested in being the A. Everyone on this podcast that gets an A from me, I feel like they're trying too hard. Way too hard. I never go above C as a host. Like C, C plus. Thank you for having me, Anne. This has been a pleasure. Thank you. It has. Thank you for having me. Well, thank you. Pleasure. Thank you. It has very much.

So for me, and I hope it was for all of you out there and I will be, uh, back next week, uh, with three more questions. Ha ha. The three questions with Andy Richter is a team Coco production.

It is produced by Sean Doherty and engineered by Rob Schulte. Additional engineering support by Eduardo Perez and Joanna Samuel. Executive produced by Joanna Solitaroff, Adam Sachs, and Jeff Ross. Talent booking by Paula Davis and Gina Batista with additional booking support from Maddie Ogden. Research by Alyssa Grau. Additional booking support from Maddie Ogden. Research by Alyssa Graal. Don't forget to rate and review and subscribe to The Three Questions with Andy Richter,

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