The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Jacqueline Novak

Episode Date: October 1, 2024

Comedian Jacqueline Novak joins Andy Richer to discuss her Emmy-nominated Netflix special, "Get On Your Knees," why she still believes in stand-up comedy as an art form, the email she sent to the “Tonight Show” booker, renting her own billboards, the inanity of studio testing, and what she’s working on next.Do you want to talk to Andy live on SiriusXM’s Conan O’Brien Radio? Leave a voicemail at 855-266-2604 or fill out our Google Form at BIT.LY/CALLANDYRICHTER. Listen to "The Andy Richter Call-In Show" every Wednesday at 1pm Pacific on SiriusXM's Conan O'Brien Channel.

Hello everybody, welcome back to the three questions. I'm the host of the three questions the king of the three questions I invented the concept of asking three questions. I'm Andy Richter and This week I'm here with Jacqueline Novak Jacqueline is a comedian an actor a writer and an author and she is brilliant She's the co-host of The Pugue Podcast with Kate Berlant and you can find her tour dates on jokestovac.com and watch her amazing special Get On Your Knees on Netflix. Before we get into it with Jacqueline, I just want to say that we've had some really fun guests on The Callin Show recently, including

Ron Funches, Tom Lennon, and Nicole Beyer. Give us a call and join the conversation. And now here's my conversation with Jacqueline Novak. Can't you tell my love's been slain? By the way, I'm part of the tote bag army too. It's the most useful. I have so many going at me at any time. I started hanging out these big nails I got to not obsess about what is a good hook or

what is an attractive hook. Right, right. Nails. I read this in an ADD book. Yeah, yeah. And then, oh. No, no, no. Go ahead. I love it. I love it. an ADD book. Yeah, yeah. And then, oh. No, no, no, go ahead. No, I love it, I love it.

We've been going. Okay, good. Yeah, no. Do you have the tote bags separated into like, this is my gym tote bag, and this is my, when I go in book meeting tote bag, and this is my, yeah, yeah. It starts, and then it's chaos of who's in what.

Right, just so people know, there are two big, beautiful canvas totes here. One, I believe has a whole prosciutto in it. Yeah, one has, this is straight from the gym. We've got all of my toiletries for the gym. I have a toiletry thing, I hang it on the shower to do it right, because I'm here every day. Right.

Well, good for you. I've got my shoes. In the gym every day. I know, I know. It won't keep the grave away, but whatever. Good for you. Well, it's about a health span, not a life span. This is the thing. I know, I know.

I know you know, I know you know. We have a, there's like a crossfit gym, literally three quarters of a block from our house. And it's a very reasonable monthly fee and my wife loves a bargain. So she's gonna get as much out of it as she can. So it's like six days a week. She's going, I honestly don't know anything

I could do six days a week for an hour. Well, my huge realization recently has been if I don't do something daily, it's actually never gonna happen and never gonna be part of my life. So everything I try to do starts and it's, so right now I'm locked in the exercise. You guys, the first thing,

I've done it basically consistently for like, the last eight months or something, right? That's great. And it's just, I don't have to pose the question of do I feel like doing this or not. Right. Which is, I mean, unanswerable. Do you like it?

Have you gotten past that point where you're like, I like this, and if I was to go somewhere for two weeks and work, I would have to go to the hotel gym to do this too. Yes, I did do that actually with this particular workout. And like I had weights in my suitcase. That's crazy. Leg weights and hand weights, like specific ones

because of the way the moves go. Wow. And they're required and so. You should just warm them on the plane. It's also mood. It's cheaper. Oh yeah, you mean mood elevating? Yeah, yeah, stabilizing, the whole thing.

So once you're hooked on that, when I fall off, I fall off for nine years, literally. I mean, literally, I'll go years without a single movement. It's so, it's like, these streams. When I started, when I started making money, you know, like money that I could actually do fancy things like go to a gym, you know,

and I very quickly realized I need a trainer because I won't go, like if I say, I'm gonna go tomorrow at 8 a.m I'm gonna go tomorrow at 8 a.m. I'm not going at 8 a.m. But if I'm paying someone, and it's not even so much the paying them, it's the fact that there's another human being waiting for me and I promise that I would be there.

I can't, like I can't, it would be rude. Like it's, again, it's not the money. Like the money I'd be kind of like, well, I'm too bad. Yeah. You'd happily pay the fee to not work out on that day. Absolutely. It's, you know, so I, and I did that for years and years.

But Jimmy's weighting is different. I did it for years and years and years. With the same trainer? Long stretches. Long stretches. Long stretches of the same trainer. Yeah, they gave you all they could and you had to move on.

Well no, just like moved towns. You know, like moved into a different. I built a narrative. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you were like, you had a whole relationship. I'm sorry buddy, I gotta. I just think there's. They plateaued. Yeah, like it's like my.

Like you got to the end of their skill set. It's like my karate instruction. I must go to a different dojo here. You're like, you can only have as good as sex, like you can't have a better sex life than your sex therapist or whatever, like they're the cap. Really?

Is that a thing that people say? I heard it once and never forgot it. But it was a devastating sort of rule of teacher. I would never even think that like my sex therapist, like I don't go to a sex therapist and think like, well, this guy's gonna make me good at fucking. You know? It's like it's still on me.

Yeah, if they could do that. I think it's like, it's like, I mean, it's the metaphor, the anecdote falls apart in a thousand ways because I don't even understand what therapist this is. But I know what you mean. But a teacher, you're never gonna, like it's almost like you're never gonna play better than your teacher, like, unless you, I don't, I guess, you know, they. But a teacher, you're never gonna, it's almost like you're never gonna play better than your teacher unless you, I guess,

they can become a cap, right? They have to become a cap. You must break away. You plumb the depths of their knowledge and what they can actually do for you. Or you hit their emotional blocks, more likely, right? That could be, yeah, yeah, yeah. Or you grow to their size and they,

that's when they cast you out. With a train, I mean, all I'm looking to do is just not have my spine fall apart. So I don't need a trainer. I'm not- Well, they say the flexibility of the spine is, you know, the sign that is, you're as young as your spine is flexible, they say. And that's the only thing I care about.

Like I don't care about being buff. I don't care about any of the turd polishing that I might engage in. The tiny, sad little shard of vanity that I still hold onto matters to me. Wait, turd polishing as in... I just want to make sure I understand. Do you know what? You never heard turd polishing? Well, I understand it as a metaphor, right? But what's the turd here? Me! So if I go like work out and like, Yeah, if I like lost 30 pounds and you know, like did a Danny Elfin where now I gotta take my shirt off

in every video because I paid somebody to get my body, my old body into shape, you know, so it's like I paid for this car. I'm gonna drive it around the block. Like I just don't think, like I make the joke constantly that, like, I should lose some weight so I can get more roles playing the fat guy. Like, I just, there's, like, I just didn't, there's just too much Midwest Swedish plow

horse in me for any of the vanity things to really- If it's spiritually what you are, like, like, Plato, like, like Plato's ideals, right? Like, if in your mind, like, you have an essential pl Plato's ideals, right? If in your mind you have an essential plow horse identity, right? The form is going to want to be that unless you completely radically shift that. And I'm fine with plow horse. I just know that I'm from generations upon generations of people that wore aprons most of the day. And so I'm not going to be... And all kinds of aprons, not just cooking. Absolutely. You're talking about...

Butchers' aprons. Yeah, yeah. But also... Yeah, welding, possibly, blacksmithing. I love all that. Colonial sort of crafts and... Just Germans. Just Germans involved in the slaughter and processing of animals. I love all that. Yeah. Colonial sort of crafts and marketplace. Germans. Oh, it's right. It's German. Just Germans involved in the slaughter and processing of animals, probably.

You still on meat? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I don't eat a lot of meat. My wife is vegetarian, so I don't eat a lot of meat. Are you vegetarian? Recently. Recently?

Yeah. I've been experimenting with what they call whole food, plant- is like it's a just a different thing. It's not I mean, it's good We have to cut this I'm exhausted by how often I managed to bring up my new like diet, right? Right? It's like it's like health But what's the point of doing it if you're not gonna talk about it all the time? Well, what's the point of doing it if you're not going to talk about it all the time? Oh, it happens anyway. You drag this pedestal of moral superiority around with you. You've got to get up on it.

No, no. That's why. And then because it's not exploring it for, because I do read these longevity books. And they actually made a case that convinced me and I about meat. about me eating less meat. Yeah, you know they say zero There was a chapter titled moderation kills, which I thought was hysterical. Oh my god, isn't that great? I just love like a firm take like that, but whatever that's it's a hell of a conversation It's a hell of a conversation to be had elsewhere. Yeah Crossroads on the roads, but sorry. When's the last meet you ate like five had elsewhere. To be had across roads on no roads. I getcha.

But when's the last meat you ate? Like five months ago, I think. Oh wow. And are you completely, like, are you doing any dairy or any, like, honey? You won't eat honey. No, no, I actually will eat honey because... Then that's not vegan. Get out! I'm not vegan!

Alright, alright, alright. No, exactly. That's why you end up- You're a thing that's much more difficult to explain. Yes, yes. And it's like, yeah, there's no morality attached explicitly. Right. And once you're already there and you happen to be, you know, if you're eating only celery because or for one reason, and then, you and then I feel like I can look a cat,

not that I was eating a cat before, but I always felt like there was a moral dissociation between me and my pets and the fact that I would obviously fall in love with a cow if it were living with me, you know what I mean, and all that, whatever. But just like. See, I'm comfortable with that. Well, that's a farmer's way, right?

That you live among them until it's time for them to do what they do. I mean, I grew up on a farm, but it was a defunct farm. We were surrounded by other active farms. That's, wait, this is very interesting. Hold on. I'm going to take a minute with this because this is like an American play or something, right?

Doesn't it sound like full drama? It bores me. The defunct farm. Yeah, yeah. Right, surrounded by active ones, kind of like the defunct farm. Yeah, yeah. Right, surrounded by active ones, kind of like the family turning on itself.

Well, it was that my great grandfather, and I don't know if this is, I haven't looked this up. You'd have to talk to my brother who has more time to do genealogy things than is interesting. Oh, Is he big on that? He is. And I reap the benefits of it,

but I couldn't do it. His discoveries, he brings back. Yeah, yeah. But I think that my great grandfather, the land Palmer was the name, and I think that the land that they got was previous to that, it had been Black Hawk Indian land. Well, here we go.

So it was a long time, you know, like they had this land. And then for a couple generations, they kind of farmed, but what they mostly did was sold land. Wow. Like they had a bunch of land. And sold it off slowly. Yeah, they were like kind of farmers. And they're like, well, let's go sell that,

however many acres. And that's what we'll live on for literally years until we need to sell off another chunk of land. And in that time, they just raised like hogs to show. And in my grandparents' attic, there were huge like sterling silver loving cups for prize hogs. They put their effort into the prize heifers.

In the prize hogs, yeah, yeah, just in hogs and chickens. And then my grandfather, it all kind of ran out and he ended up having to like sell insurance and real estate. See, this is, now we got Willie Lohman. Willie Lohman, yeah, but he wasn't sad. Like, he was a very well-loved person. Me push, I'm sorry.

I don't mean he was really well-loved. No, no, no. I'm the same, like if someone just, you know, like says a thing like that to me, I'm sort of like, well no, actually, right? I just, I wanna clarify. You tell me of a plain life, and I feel like I'm staring into an abyss

You know like you tell me just like a humble life that someone had that could be completely fulfilling and I'll be like oh my god How did they do it? What he owned a bakery is entire life. Yeah his entire life Yeah, well doesn't it seem like showbiz and the arts, like that's the thing that just makes it okay. Even if, like I mean I'm assuming for you, right? It's like for whatever, that is the fail safe, like that is the promise of not the simple humble life.

And so then even if your life becomes sort of routine within the world of that, you're still like, I'm doing it baby. I'm in the middle of like a very routine life, but that people listen to. Yes. And so it is like, but it still is like, I'm not killing it on movie sets.

I don't have my own show. I'm not in any call sheet for the foreseeable future. We gotta work on that. I have no shit. That's why you're here. I know, let's stimulate this. I mean, let's like activate this a little bit. Like, okay, like this is fun.

Okay, this will be good for your spine. If you get like pumped about the future, like, you know, the early dreams, okay, what remains on the table that you feel is kind of, about the future, like, you know, the early dreams, okay? What remains on the table that you feel is kind of, maybe you've started to sell off as if, not like your ancestors with their land. Do you know what I mean?

Oh, tons and tons of things. If you could do, if you could like, pluck, you know, off a tray, okay? You know, there's more coming, but as you say, what do you grab first? And it's like tomorrow. You know, there's more coming, but I should say, what do you grab first? And it's like tomorrow, you know, you're the leading man in an action thriller in which you're like, I don't know what, but it's greedy and like, you know, whatever, whatever. Like, is it, is it already on Broadway doing?

No. What are you doing? What am I doing? No, I mean, like if I could pick, oh, if I could pick, like, the thing that I would be happiest doing. Without. And by happy, I mean, you know, until my fucking miserable self catches up with me. Right, of course.

And becomes dissatisfied with virtually anything. But just acting, a character actor in something, anything, you know, like movies, TV, something like, because I really have, we sure are interviewing me today. This is, is this okay? Are you kidding? I'm in heaven. Oh, okay, good, good. Yeah, as long as you're happy. Yeah, I mean, you know. Oh my god, no, this is the best. And so, so are your listeners. Oh, okay. Isn't exhausting hearing but like some bitch Yeah, yeah, we'll get we'll get to you know, I'm really excited right now I'm coming alive So I went I went like film school

Improv comedy all kind of like never having a real sort of, this is what I want. Like sitting in Chicago in an improv class next to a kid that moved there from Arizona because he wanted to be on SNL. And being like, what? Because you were thinking, which I want to be an actor? Or I don't even know what I'm doing. Honestly, I'm just thinking I want to have fun.

I'm pursuing the fun of this. Kind of breaking down a bunch of compromises coming from a place where it was, where like I went to college and I wanted to write, which I didn't really wanna write, I wanted to act. But I would, but like- You wanted to play a writer in your own life. Yeah, but just like I wanted to be an actor,

but that seemed too fancy. Right, right. So I'm like, I'll be a writer. Oh my God, that's so, wait, yes, because the humble writer. Yeah, yeah. Right, exactly. And a little workmanship.

I don't want people looking at me. I want them to hear my words and be lost in them, but I don't want them looking at me. And- When in fact you do. Had a high school guidance counselor when I said I wanna write, and he goes like, so journalism, and I was like,

no, I think I'd rather like TV shows or books or something. I don't know exactly what. And he was like, go into journalism. And I, you know, I went, okay. And I started University of Illinois, headed towards journalism and halfway through went to film school.

Because I just, and especially at Chicago, there was like, there was a film industry. And I was like, well, people are making, my whole motivation was like, well, people seem to be making money, having a life, doing this thing. And so it just kind of went that way. And then, and I really did wanna,

and I had started acting, you know, I did improv and then did this kind of live show that left Chicago, that kind of got me from, got me to New York, got me to LA. And then I was like, I had been in a couple of movies, you know, as and doing like comedic character stuff. And then I got on the Conan show, which has been a wonderful day in your life. It was like a wonderful blessing, but it was kind of a side trip from what I had been heading towards. And through all of this and all of this that has been wonderful and afforded me like just an absurd

amount of experience and, you know, riches of all kinds. Totally. And everybody knows that you're wildly grateful and appreciative of your life so far. Absolutely. So no, you know. Absolutely. I hope. On to the- They don't, they don't, because you have to say that. I know, I know.

You have to wear a neon hat that says, I am grateful. But honestly, I just want to act. I just want to be an actor. I have found like after the times that I've gotten to act and act in something good, I'm like, yeah, I really want it. And I feel like I don't have any technique. I don't, I just learned by doing. But I do know that like the more I do it, the better I get.

Yes. Well, now you, because we have to talk about you. I'll be coming back to you because I want to get this acting career back. I want to ask how much, because you do stand up. You do, and I mean, do you consider a show on your knees, is that stand up to you? Or is that a different thing? I say that it's, I mean, yeah, I say it's stand up

because to me, you know, it's like stand up is the hardest thing in the world. Yeah, yeah, I say it's stand-up because to me, it's like stand-up's the hardest thing in the world. So it's like, I'm like, it is indeed stand-up. Check my laughs, check my laughs per minute. You know what I mean? It's like, so I would never call it like- Is that still like the litmus test for you is the laughs? I mean, no. I mean, that's more like if someone else,

we're, I don't know, calling it like a one-person show or something, which, you know, plenty of people do and whatever, it doesn't matter. Like, I'm like... Well, you know there is no one else in it. I've heard this. I don't feel alone up there.

All the ghosts in the theaters, you know? No, I kept waiting for the supporting players and they just didn't show. You keep glancing off stage like someone's en route. Yeah, yeah. And never, I go, who's that? Is it just her? The whole time?

Well, when people go out to play, it's weird. Yeah, I always, I'm like, it's stand up because that's the world I've come up in. I sort of, who even says come up? I mean, people say it all the time. I never have and I always feel weird about it. Yeah, yeah. It always like, it always suggests this breezy

sort of journey. I don't know, like it was just a easy incline of like the soft swoop upwards or something. Yeah, and the upwards trajectory of it. But how else are you gonna say it? Yeah, I mean, I guess it's like really time passes and you're still doing stand-up. Yeah, right and And I I mean I was I

Wanted it to be a thing. I was like I'm putting I have to put together a show that is this huge swing Mm-hmm, because I was sort of at a place where I certainly wasn't new and People like industry whatever people who could put your stuff on television, like they knew who I was, they'd see me around for years. Like it was just sort of, they weren't, so I felt like I submitted a 15 minute tape to Netflix and it was like, I look and I see like they didn't watch it. You know what I mean?

And I'm like, at this point I'd done a couple of late night spots and Comedy Central half hour. This half hours for a special to do a half hour or it was it was literally Netflix was like they're like the quarter hours Oh, wow, okay Right. So so it was like I think I submitted and then like see that there's like, you know two views and they're you know They're me or whatever They're me pretending. I'm them. Yeah, what does it feel like to click on this link and watch it? Is it there really?

Yeah, is it truly there? I won't know until, it's sort of like looking at like a post or something, like I don't know, there's a weird thing. I'm not on Twitter, I was barely into it, but like needing to see how it looked published, you know, like in the real print. But, you know, and then I did a show in Edinburgh,

it was like, there was someone there from New York or something, and they were like, we're not gonna go see Jasmine's show, we can see her anytime in New York, like we know who she is, right? This kind of thing. And so I was like, all right, this is, my position in line is not a good position right now.

Like, and so I felt like my only option was to try to cut the line through massive action. Yeah. Like I was like, I have to shock and awe. Yeah, yeah. And so it was like, I just really got really, instead of, and then instead of sort of like chasing these opportunities around me,

like sort of like sniffing, like, you know, like someone in your periphery, what's that? What are they doing? Okay, like, oh, I gotta try to get that. Like, there's someone chasing it around. It was like, close everything, shut everything out. I'm gonna try to make something that will make any of that irrelevant.

Right. Oh, and so all to say, you know, by virtue of saying I'm gonna try to do something with standup that achieves that, I think I had to be thinking about it as kind of a piece, right? Right. You know, which of course like a stand-up hour, you know, like my hour, my new hour, whatever, is, but there's something about like the sentiment of the new hour or have you seen their hour,

that kind of implies to me a little bit, like they're already putting out hours, now this is the latest one. It's like there's something confusing about, like come see my hour. And it's like, so I think, yeah, it became, it had to be a real piece and a real, that's where it becomes kind of, and then mounting it in New York as a show,

off Broadway, was like a strategy to basically see if audiences liked it, then maybe the powers that be would have to acknowledge. Well, it's funny because when you say it there is, there is a stand-up's new hour, which I hear that, and I do go, oh. Right. And then I hear like, you know, like a one, a one woman, yeah. I mean, you know, like, or like that it's like a theatrical hour of, of solo work. There is something qualitatively different about that that I couldn't explain, that I couldn't tell you why.

I think like, our standup, you know, theater hour of theatrical solo work, oh. You know, that it just seems more classy or, you know. But I mean, classy is, that's the Midwestern in me talking, but it also is something like, yeah, there also is part of me that's like, well, I want to see that one. Because the hours, like, sometimes I just, like,

I dabbled in standup, but just very, very like, dilettantishly, but I just, there's so many hours of standup out there that it just, it's the same way sometimes. Like I mentioned before, like you give me something that could be nice and I'll find something sad about it. Go into a bookstore and looking at all the books on the shelves and thinking like, so much work, so much effort poured in and so many hopes and dreams poured into these things,

and there they sit, you know? Like it's- I know, I know completely passing by like in the airport, like you can really get there. And I feel that about stand-up hours, because it's just, it's like, and it's also, it's just so naked. You just stand in there telling jokes, you know?

Wait, so that's the piece that you, wait, so the one piece of the, the market's flooded in the crassest way to say it, right? Yeah. But then the second, like of one way, your miserableness could, you know, catch up to like stopping you from doing it. Yeah, yeah.

Just so you can fall. And then, wait, there was a second one you just said that felt like it had a different vibe. The theatrical one. Oh, no, no. The rawness, the rawness. No, no, the rawness. So, and you're just up there.

Oh, the nakedness of being, well. Yeah, is that. No, no, the rawness. So, and you're just up there. Oh, the nakedness of being... Yeah, is that a fear or a... I don't know. I feel like... Or does it all feel a little too like journalism? Like you want to tell... Maybe a little bit. You mean stand-up.

Yeah, like you want to tell stories. Yeah, absolutely. And you're already in like non-fiction here, technically, right? Yeah, stand-up seems like you're trying to make an omelet. Whereas the theatrical piece is like, you're making some new dish that no one's ever heard of before. And I just think that there's something, well, it just feels more risky,

but also kind of there's more, I have more forgiveness for that kind of work because it's like, this person is trying something crazy. They're not just doing like, I've seen XYZ stand up, you know, and especially if it's like, I am a, you know, like bald Ukrainian and I've seen other bald ethnic stand ups and I would like to fit into that pantheon. There's just so much derivative stuff in standup,

because it's very hard to do something that much different when you're just standing and telling jokes. But when you're doing, like, get on your knees. I ultimately disagree. This is hysterical. Really? No, I mean, I appreciate the sentiment because at least, it sounds to me like you're experiencing something,

let's say, while watching it on your knees, that feels different or whatever, right? But I ultimately, and maybe this is just my love of kind of stand up, the simplicity, the rawness, and I know comedians love to talk about, I got nothing but a microphone and a light on me, you know, and like this kind of, it's a purist form of whatever. But it was important to me for this particular show,

it's like, I wanted like no lighting cues. I wanted no help. I wanted a microphone and a stand with a wire. Like, you know, I like the, that first challenge you presented of there's so much stand up and what can you do just standing there talking, right? I like that limitation of, and then to go, well, how would I then make it exciting?

Like any of those, like you're sitting there, I don't know, a bunch of people, one after the next. Like, cause you see it when it happens, right? When you have the same format and seven people do it in a row and you start to question whether the form itself, you know, like, whatever it is, stand up or a painting or something. Yeah, whether it's just been done to death. It's just not.

And then someone gets up, same rules, and they blow you away. You're right. Your spirit source, you know? And like, I've seen that like, I don't know, there's always like, Patrice O'Neil like, on a roast once like a million years ago on Comedy Central, it's like everyone does it,

and everyone's doing great, whatever, they're doing like traditional roast stuff. And then he gets up and it's like, he just sort of talks in this way. He's like breaking the form, but also not. And it's that feeling's like, he just sort of talks in this way. He's like breaking the form, but also not. And it's that feeling of like, oh, I didn't know we were allowed to do that within this. And it's within this.

So yeah, I'm very suspicious of, and maybe it's just like these hangups of like, I want the boys to see like, I'm not tricking anybody with any razzle-dazzle. Yeah. Now I feel a little like I threw down enough on a bare stage in a t-shirt and jeans. Like, now I could maybe razzle-dazzle.

I see, I see. Now I could come down on wires. Yeah, yeah. Now I could do like true theater. Yeah, yeah. Well, I just think, I don't know. I mean, I just loved your show so much. Thank you.

That's the beginning of it. But I just, I was, I just was there, I was there listening to someone really kind of tell a real story about themselves. And it was, and they were definitely like, there's hunks in there and there's jokes in there. And there's definitely like,

there's very much standup kind of structure. But I felt like I was witnessing something a lot more vital and true and relevant and authentic than I do with somebody who's like, I got an hour, I got to fill it with jokes. And it's like, so I got 20 good minutes and then there's 20 minutes of just keeping them awake and then the final runs through to the really filthy stuff or whatever. Well, It's also built on a almost lounge, like cocktail lounge mentality of doing your time, right?

Yeah, yeah. You got X amount of time to do, that's my time, folks. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like you can leave at any time, you say that's my time, because it's on the venue, you know what I mean? They gotta bring the dancers up or whatever.

And it's like, it almost feels like, yeah, a lot of standup that is the, adding minutes together piece by piece. And I love for that. But it is almost like, yeah, you could walk into the room, you walk into this lounge and there's someone up there and they're talking and you get into it and it's going, you could leave and come back and like.

Pick it up again, yeah. And that's, that also appeals to me. Like I would feel very proud of myself if I were like lying on a piano in a dress like and other people are talking in a lot, I don't know, it was like the 1920s or something in my mind. You know, but like, but I just keep going. Anyone who's listening is loving it, you know?

Like, I don't know, know, something about that too. Yeah, hop on or off this train whenever you want. It's still gonna be a great ride. I'm just playing. And that's, first of all, that's really hard to do too. And that's why also the stand up hour and the I've got 20 minutes now I'm adding five and whatever can't be, you know, can't, it's not inherently bad. Or it's not inherently, I mean,

it's, it's, I don't know, I guess what I'm saying is any of these forms can be done well or badly. It's execution. There's so much it's's like, it's, there's so many, you know, like a TV, a comedy about an office. Yes, yes, yes. You know? It's like, that could be- It could be your favorite show. Yeah, it could be your favorite show

or an absolute piece of dog shit that you can't stand. I know, I get bummed out in the conceptual phase of like, creative, like something like that. Like, come up with a TV show, right? It's like I start to get sort of bummed out because particularly at those kinds of abstract, like so we've got a family and da da da, and the dad does this or whatever.

A group of friends and one of that. I'm just like, ugh. It just starts to sound bad in my head even though then what I'll do is when I'm watching something I love, go, okay, I would have said no to all these things thinking it sounded boring, stupid, bad, and wait, it's my favorite show.

Look, I don't mind that they just did this exposition in this way that, you know, like, that's a struggle for me, I would say, that moving from the concept, to be enamored with the concept is like one thing. Yes. And like some of my favorite things are not high concepts. No. And you know, how do you get to that?

How do you just limit yourself to the really easy, I mean, not easy, the simple idea? You know, it's... It's... I just think, like, there's a reason good things are good, and it's because they're rare. You know, like, if everything was really good, you know, I mean, especially, like, in television, I just think, you know, everybody...

And I've been, you know, you go through this frustration of where, you know, the process is kind of generally speaking. We love you. You're so fantastic. We, oh my God, you're such a unique voice. And I just, we want you, you, you. Okay, sign here. Yeah. And then the process is eventually down to like, why don't you be like other things that have already worked? You know? Like we are spending money and we need to make sure that the money comes back. So why don't you do all these things that made money? You know?

At first, when you're young, you're like, ugh. And then you're like, well yeah, that's kinda how it is. And you know? And- Yeah, no, I'm just like, I'm fired up because I'm like, exactly. I'm like, but I'm realizing it's similar to what I was saying before, like,

I have to do the same approach, which is go, if you leave room for them to tell you sort of what they want or how to do it, it's like, it's almost like you have to execute, you know, like, and then once it's working, they'll see that it's working, right? So then how do you do that? And this is where I get like,

we're gonna shoot stuff on my phone and that's it. I just wanna make stuff and put it out on Instagram. Because I can actually make the thing, I can execute the thing even if the tools aren't great. I can execute, I can have it have the humor, the voice, all that stuff. I know I can sort of execute on that. So how do you, I don't know, it's like how do you do that?

Getting people on board for a creative idea, right? I mean, that's one of the reasons it's hard. And so that's one of the reasons that I like-up is you don't have to get anyone on board Other than the audience. Yeah. Yeah, and then no one can deny it. Yeah, so You know trying to I mean I sometimes think like if I were trying to pitch You know like get on your knees. I mean the pitch isn't actually half bad You know like like a you know three act stand-up set like, you know, the blowjob in three acts or whatever, you know, like a three act stand up set, like the blow job in three acts or whatever, you know. Blah blah, whatever. It actually pitches okay. But if I were trying to say, and I think I did at different points,

like I think I submitted book proposals that were this kind of thing where I'm trying to say it's going to be, you know, I'm going to be talking about these mundane slash crass, you know, vulgar things, but I'm going to be trying to argue for their kind of like, you know, their spiritual glory or whatever. I'm gonna elevate. I'm gonna elevate them. And it's funny that I'm doing that because it's odd to do that,

but I also do believe it. So like, I want it to also be moving, but you know, and whatever, it's like like there would just be the Well, I don't know how you're gonna do that It's like and they go well You know some someone who did and then they try to find a like you're saying an example of something working Yeah, and it's like the I don't know how you're gonna do that right which is the unspoken You know Thing that they don't say. Yeah, I don't know how you'd pull that off.

It's like, that is exactly what makes someone an artist versus not an artist, or someone on this side of the table versus, right, like the executive, is like the, well, would you believe it? I just might figure it out. Yeah, yeah. I can see it in my head. Yeah.

I do the impossible. I'm a magician. Yes. If I didn't, I mean, literally, my head. Yeah. Yeah, I do the impossible. I'm a magician Yes, if I didn't if it mean literally if you could figure it out, right meaning them This suddenly turns about you like yeah, it's very weird. But like then you wouldn't need me. Yes, exactly so it's so simple so obvious, but it's It's like if you completely get it then it won't surprise and delight you later, you later. So you should, you know, and that's like trust the artist. And it just never, it never, there's just so many things that I heard like Victor Fresco who ran the first sitcom that I did.

He said at one point we were talking about like testing and they were testing things and stuff. Oh, God. Yeah, yeah. And he said, he just said something, well, you know, the thing about testing is it's always right. It's always right because everything that's on television has just been a big success, you know?

Like everything that testing has told us to do was never wrong. Oh my God. Was never a mistake. And I, you know, it's like, yeah, that's, yeah, it doesn't work that way. Didn't every failure also test to get where it was? And then certainly the rare, you know, well, it's like, yeah, I mean, are we going for greatness or what? You know, why did you get it like to the imagined executive?

Why'd you get into this business? Yeah. Yeah. Isn't it? Yeah. Didn't you? You love TV shows. You love TV shows. Yeah.

And you want to, and there's something magical about making good TV shows that doesn't matter to you anymore. Matt Weiner was a writer on Andy Richter Controls the Universe. Cool. And when he was on that, he said, here's my pilot for this show that I'm doing. And it's about like advertiser, you know, like Madison Avenue people advertising cigarettes and stuff and liquor. And no one will get it because they just don't,

they say period pieces don't work. Right, right, right. Period pieces don't work. And it sat like in, you know, I took it, I put it in my nightstand and it probably took me two months to be like, oh, okay. You know, and I think I'll read this now. And I was like, wow.

And also too, it's like, like that, you know, that show is just about like, I can't even begin, but it's like from the first episode, you really think, oh, this is not about advertising. Oh, it's also like funnier than a thousand things. Exactly. Yeah. You know, it's also like one of those shows that little moments from it I just think about

all the time, you know, like they just become like reference points in your own life. Yes, yes. Dance and dark and hilarious and, you know, and but I just, and then it comes on, somebody goes, okay, yeah, come over here to this little like network that nobody is watching or cares about and do it here. And then all, and then I just, it's like all those motherfuckers that were like, period doesn't work, the next year are like, it's about swinging 60 stewardesses.

Like those fucking son of a bitches. Always one beast behind. And they were sitting there so fucking sassy when they were like proclaiming that they knew what worked until some, and then they're wrong. You're just fucking wrong. No, I mean, this is why all you can say, I mean, this is why we must, we must, as artists, we absolutely, we have to, whether it's get up in the morning and give ourselves a speech

and remember, you know, that it is upon us to be brave. Yes. Okay, and to not turn around and to say, you know, come up with, it's a little bit like Don Draper, like we have to be a little Don Draper, like when he's like doing the pitch and they're whichever one it is and they're not really behind it.

And he's like, you either believe in Jesus Christ or you don't, something like that. You know, he's like, I can't find Jesus Christ in your heart if it's not there. You know, like this kind of like confident, like you take the leap, like I'm telling you to take the leap. And I'm, you know, I'm, I've learned a little bit to, cause I'm very, naturally I would be very,

well, here are all the reasons this couldn't work. Let me share all the reasons with you, whoever I'm pitching to. Yeah, yeah. The problems with this, my concerns about it. Yeah, let me talk about those first. Yeah, yeah, let me leave it those. All the shortcomings of my project.

You're probably thinking, you're probably asking, well, that doesn't make sense because, you know. And so I can go that route, but I've almost learned a little bit to the way that I can get to the other, to like the Don Draper, because that does live in me. It's like, it's's just like it lives in me when I'm at home,

like in the kitchen, you know, just railing on something to my boyfriend, you know, like where there I'm like, I mean, it'd be absolute fools not to do it, you know? And it's like, bring a little bit of that in. And then there's something to me that's a little funny about it. It's almost like a little bit of a character. It's like, I remember trying to get on The Tonight Show,

like, you know, Johnny's Tonight Show. Oh, really? No, it was Jimmy's, but maybe it was pre-, I forget. It doesn't matter. You're trying to get on The Tonight Show. I'm trying to get on, and I get the email of the Booker at the time, and I send this email, and I'm drafting it sitting there and telling myself,

like, it doesn't matter that sitting there and telling myself like, doesn't matter that the world, the industry at large doesn't, in my mind, this group doesn't think like, they're not calling me up and going, we need you on the show. I'm like, it actually really is this one guy who books a show that I need to convince. And then that guy has to convince, you know,

his producers, but it's actually two steps. And like, kind of like two people in a way. And so, but anyway, I remember writing this email to the guy being like, and I was working on the subject of the email, and I was like, Novak's historic tonight show debut. And I was like, this is like, it's kind of a joke, but you say the joke enough times,

it kind of holds. It's like, why couldn't it be? Right, right. It's like a great trick. It's like, you know, so if I could do it with, develop this little bit of a overly confident, it's like regular standard confidence I would find humiliating and in this way that would be just like, I'm

an asshole. Oh yeah. But push it a little further. You're going to be grandiose. If I'm grandiose. Yeah, yeah, because that's funny. That's funny. Yeah.

And I still get to say the thing. Yeah, exactly. I don't know. Well, it's also because, you know, Nobeck's historic, you know, Tonight Show debut is even on the other side of it. Like, when you've done it, it's like, yeah, that was Wednesday. You know, like, it's like, it's...

It didn't... We all know that doesn't even happen anymore. Yeah, the world didn't come to a screeching halt because of your historic Tonight Show debut. Yeah. Well, that was always a question with doing late night sets with stand up, you know, depending on kind of how you, what your vibe is like. It's like, I've always felt, I felt this way sometimes as an opening act too, like, are you going to walk out there like you're the headliner when you're the opening act, right?

In theory, if you're trying to become a headliner, you know, yeah, I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I feel like the role is, you know, you're a guest. Like you're a guest on the show and so there's this quality of kind of like, I mean, they introduce you, you step out onto their stage and there's a, I'm gonna present a little bit of me

within the bounds of this context and there's something about I'm gonna present a little bit of me within the bounds of this context, and there's something about that that is weird. I don't know, it's like, it feels a little to me like you gotta kinda, or I, or if I were gonna do it tomorrow, almost shake it off, like, and just go out there like, like I don't even know what this, like, it's like the guest energy doesn't necessarily contribute unless that's the shtick I'm going for hardcore.

Yeah, I mean, it depends on what you're doing. If you're doing, if you're like doing the, if your standup is this persona, then yeah, then you got, that's a different story. But if you're just being yourself and coming out and telling the jokes that you've done, just be as natural as you can. Because one of the biggest, to me,

one of the most tragic thing that I would see is like, especially in the earlier days of late night, and it'd be the second or third guest would be like the fourth star of the new CBS drama. And it'd be like, here he comes, Chip Jared. And the music would play and the curtain would open and Chip Jared would walk out like, it's Steve McQueen walking out.

Oh my God, really? Just, yeah, like, you all know me. Hello, yes, here he is, Chip Jared comes and says hi to me. You know, Conan and hello, hi, waving Chip Jared. And it just, and every time they do it, I would just be like, oh, you're fucked. Like, you fucked it up from the beginning because you, you know, you cocky asshole.

Just cause you're pretty doesn't make, it doesn't make everything easy. And you would just say that immediately. When they asked how they. So yeah. Yeah, yeah. The, the, the, yeah. Acting comfortable in the setting seems weird.

Cause it's like, if it is your first time on the show, it's like, I don't know, it's all weird, and I just ask too many questions. It's all vibe too. Yeah, it's all very vibe-y, and it's easy to sit here and say, that was a mistake. Yeah, right.

You know, because it's like, yeah, I don't know, beforehand, I didn't know what to do, but I definitely know that was wrong. Yeah. The way you did it was wrong. Yeah. It's like everyone in the acting class, like, you can see what, I don't know, the person on stage, you could tell, like, let's just say what the acting teacher is saying is like right.

You can see them not getting it. Yeah, yeah. And like we all saw, we all see the difference in this one versus last time. Right, right, right. I mean, you're telling it, and then you're up there, and then you are the idiot. You're like not getting it. You're the same lost one, yeah. Lost in your own, whatever your thing is, devastating.

I did wanna ask, because like you said, you said that you wanted to cut the line of the casting situation or the getting stand up kind of situation, which does make me think about, I do want to ask acting versus stand up and where those rank in your life,

but did the subject matter when you're thinking of I gotta make a splash? Did the subject matter? Like blowjob, that kind of thing? Did you think this is gonna do it? Because it is pretty fucking genius. Thank you. And like you said, no it's fucking genius you know thank you you know it's and like you said that it was like like that it's a pretty good pitch

it's a fucking awesome pitch you know yeah like I'd be like in some towns when I'd be touring and I like take out these billboards like these digital billboards like me online like 2 a.m. like on these websites that like anybody I would take out these billboards, like no one's gonna, like I would just be like, okay, cause it would be like, if you sell out the venue, you get X dollars, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And if you don't, the guarantee is like, depending on what the deal was, it was like, I gotta sell out Chicago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, like it is worth X, you know, it's worth even whatever, $500, if this can get me to the sellout. Sure, sure.

So if you buy these billboards on the highway. 40 more tickets. Exactly. And 40 more tickets means another grand. Like, fuck yeah, I'm gonna work hard to get those 40 tickets. It was very fun. And you submit these things

and it's like you choose these spots on the map, like these highway. And they're like, okay. And it would be like, oh my God, look, this is gonna be on a highway, like headed into Chicago for two seconds you know like every six hours yeah yeah and I like submit like the so it was very much carnival working at the moment like I'd be like the most highbrow blowjob show

you'll ever see okay like literally like put that and sometimes it would pass and sometimes it wouldn't right right That's the absolute most like, cornball but kind of accurate. Like it's very embarrassing to even be like, no, it's highbrow. Cause like how dare anyone even call themselves highbrow. But then to the people that like are utterly disturbed and disgusted that you'd be talking about the blow job,

like it actually is mean. It's like, anyway, all to say, it wasn't like, it wasn't like, it wasn't like, what's something juicy? You know what I mean? It wasn't like that at all. Because there's no problems. Yeah, because I wonder, were there other concepts

that you were kind of kicking around when you were thinking, I gotta do something that's gonna help me cut the line, as you said. Or did this show just become fully fledged? Well, I'd written this essay in college that, like for a creative writing class, that I had done sort of this kind of thing, like talking about first hearing about the blowjob and being like, you know, finding it strange and, you know, being afraid to do it and doing it and then feeling like, you know, I've been misunderstood, you know, whatever, and finally making peace with it, whatever.

But, and so I liked that as a narrative and found it, but I wouldn't have chosen, I wouldn't have chosen it in the one sense. I certainly wouldn't have chosen the penis as subject matter. That is just like, I'm not even interested in it. I'm literally not interested in the subject. It's like a nightmare.

And there's like an interview like, when did you realize penises are funny? Okay, and I was like, never, still haven't. Like, I am everything in me, you know, and if you watch the show, I feel like that becomes somewhat clear. Like I'm only talking about like the penis or the word penis or cock or whatever, like to get it out of the way,

but it takes me 25 minutes to get it out of the way. It's like to get out of the way because I have to make this one point in order to talk about the blow job. And so then it's like, I don't know, so I struggle with... I wouldn't have chosen that in that way is all I'm saying. I wasn't like, I gotta make a splash, let me do like, you know, dick jokes or something or do them in a new way or anything like that.

I think it was... It was actually, you know, it was more like, I have to shut everything out. What is the most me thing that's like, what is me, I don't know, as an artist, most deeply that I think is something that I can do or that I would know is in me that I don't think someone else is going to do or like, could do isn't quite the right word

because it's not like skill, right? It's would have the desire to do or like, say could do isn't quite the right word because it's not like skill, right? It's would have the desire to do. And it's like, I think for me, I go really deep in there and I'm like, I like to take something like vulgar and like, you know, show its sacredness or something like that is like, that does something for me like yeah world, you know, like it's like Like means something to me. So it's like so it was almost throwing down this like spiritual challenge kind of of Could I pull that off? Could I could I talk about you know the blowjob? But have it be like moving or something or you know, or blow job, but have it be like moving or something, or, you know, or have it be whatever, transcendent or, you know, and it's like...

No, I know. It seems silly to use language like that, but what else are you going to say? Because it's true. I was trying for it. Yeah, yeah. And succeeds very well. Thanks. You're welcome. You're welcome. No, yeah. That's what it is. It's like, No, yeah, that's what it is. It's like...

What... Throwing down a challenge that would be meaningful enough to work on the show hard enough... Because the other thing I decided was, I'm gonna work on it until it is excellent. Like, until people like it, basically. And, you know, or get it or whatever. And it happened quicker maybe than, I was prepared to have it close at Cherry Lane after two weeks, right?

Of previews and there'd be bad reviews. And I was like, I'm not gonna give up even if that happens, I'm gonna keep going, we keep working on it. I don't ever have to look at the reviews. Like I'm going to just commit to making this one thing, you know, I'll do whatever, like I'll do whatever it takes until this one thing I have.

And why do you think that was, that you were so, was it because you believed in that, the challenge that you had set up for yourself and trying to prove to yourself that you could do it? That you could elevate the vulgar to transcendence? I think it was, I think, yeah, I think it was to transcendence? I think it was, yeah, I think it was like a nice wedding of this kind of like ambition and competitive sort of spirit.

And like, it's more inspiring to get out of bed trying to do something huge than, you know, chase after the gig my friend got two weeks ago. Right, right. So in a way of like outrunning kind of depression or meaninglessness, it's like, well, what would actually be, you know, like, yeah, just like going for the bigger thing. Yeah, yeah.

Well, the fact is too, you didn't really have to do that because the show's really good. And I imagine that it was pretty well received. Like that those first two weeks at Cherry Lane were very successful. Yes, yes. But you know, I'd done a version of it like the year previous in Edinburgh.

It was like a couple people enjoyed it. Yeah, yeah. You know, I mean, I make a joke about it in the beginning of the special. Like, you know, I'm going to talk about the blow job, you know, tonight to the point of tedium, said one early critic, and he did.

It's like, you know, and so, I don't know. I'm mulling in this so intensely as we're talking about it because I'm trying to go, I'm trying to lock it in to understand for what's next. Like going like, I'm like literally trying to go like, okay, so it's gotta be, it's gotta feel hard enough that I'm like wondering if I can pull it off, you know? And that's what I'm sort of trying to figure out now.

Because you set up a really good challenge for yourself that you worked really hard, that you didn't just like, it wasn't just like you set up something that, you know, you set up something that you could knock down easily. Right. And that you really were, you dug in and you, you know, it's like you made,

you set up a really difficult equation for yourself and then you solve it. With a sneaking suspicion, right? Yes. That I'm the one to solve it. It's like, it's like, it's like setting yourself up on this quest, you know, like, what is the quest I was born for?

You know, like the ring in the particular woods. It's to make the blowjob tedious. Yeah, yeah. So tedious that it comes around to another. Yeah, yeah. So, I don't know. That's why I'm like, I'm not as enchanted with my own story here of how I made it work, just for its sake. I'm like, I'm rabidly searching it to understand

like where to go now. Where to go next. I can understand that. Now you did get, you know, the pandemic, you were all set to like go on to, there was like all set to do this next level tour of the show and then the pandemic ruined it, which is I think of all the tragedies of the pandemic,

the greatest. The fact that it's stymied the blow job show. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was really funny because I just was, I was not upset about it. I was so proud to be like someone who had these shows to cancel. I was like, I've made it.

You know, like one of these like acts. And like, well, I guess I'm not going to London. You know, like guys, like I was like just so proud that there was this tour on the books and it getting canceled was not due to me. I had better get by toilet paper. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was like, I was, and then, you know, it just, whatever.

And then after I reopened it and toured it a bunch more and the whole thing. Was it hard to maintain your interest in the material? The reason it was not hard in that way, I would say, is because my inherent dissatisfaction with at any time my own, like, you know, am I saying this the best way? Like, it's always felt like just out of reach, the, you know, solving the equation. And so I feel like I get up there and I lay out this problem, this math problem or whatever, and then I furiously fill the board with all this stuff and explore, explore, explore.

And at the end I sort of, you know, every night doing that, I would experience it like I was getting up to argue a case again and like, am I gonna get my client off this time or not? It's like, I was always like, so every night, for the most part, I felt like I was making that argument and am I making it effectively? Is there a better way to say this?

And I felt that way till the end. So, yeah, like my own dissatisfaction with, my own frustration with kind of the work keeps it interesting for me. Yeah. Do you do that in your life? Like, are you like constantly, you know, taking inventories of yourself and your life

and your choices and your relationships and what you say and, you know? Yeah, I mean, I mean, I am, you know, yeah, like constantly questioning everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And every choice and it's like, I took this test once online, but it was, we tested the six cognitive skills or whatever.

And I mean, I know I have like ADD technically and whatever, but it's like speed and flexibility are my highest. And then like attention and memory are my, like, highest. And then, like, attention and memory are, like, average. And I forget there's, like, another one. But, or two others, I don't know, it doesn't matter. But, like, it really does make sense to me. Like, I feel like it's like a flashlight, like, flying around. And so I'm always privileging, like, the new idea,

or what if we did it this way, what if we did it this way. Like I could destroy my own work and do I guess a lot before it gets out the door. Which is true for most artists probably. Although some people have other issues, right? Like some people are like blank page, like staring at the cursor. I've never seen like a cursor, you know,

like blinking at me. Like I've never, it's like a mess of, it's a chaos of words and it's like the other side. No one, I guess like no one gets out alive. It's like, it's hard for everyone. It's just hard in different ways, is like what I've come to. Like if I go, well, this other person, you know,

like they don't have as many ideas as me. I have a million ideas as me. I have a million ideas. So therefore, like my path should be easy. Because look, I'm like, you know, look, I've got this special thing and then it's like, oh, but that is my double edged sword here. Like this is, I have to deal with a different thing. I have to deal with choosing.

I have to deal with, you know, completing things, polishing them. Are you capable of satisfaction? Like, is get on your knees, are you happy? Because it's done. Are you happy with what it ended up being? Yes, I am very satisfied and proud with it, like walking away from it. Do feel like I got one on the shelf.

You know, like. Yeah. And it's not even just, I mean, cause I saw the show live, and then I saw the taped version of it. And they were, they're the same thing, but I feel like I had two different experiences in that. And so to me, I feel like you, you know,

like it's doubly satisfying. I can see why you would be doubly satisfied. Because the every night show, it's not, it didn't just end up being like I'm just, these are all just rehearsals for this TV thing I'm doing. Yeah. Right, no, each night was like different stakes and sometimes I'd hate what I was saying or going this isn't it, but I'm doing yeah, right now each night was like different stakes and sometimes

I hate what I was saying or going this isn't it, but I'm saying it anyway Yeah, I say here, which is one of the ugly Yeah, that's why I like the notion of being a theater actor. Yeah, I just like Saying the same thing. Okay in terms of your character acting. Yeah, okay You were mentioning arc on a TV show, right? Yeah, yeah. But film, I mean, obviously you take it too, but is one better than the other?

Or one more ideal? No, no, no. I used to think films... What about best supporting actor, Oscar nominee? You know, that would be fun. That would be fun, but I generally think that stuff is silly. There's probably, like like the best supporting role that I could do would probably not be one

that would get an Oscar. Why? Because it would be a comedy and they don't like comedies very much and it probably would be- Well, you know what they love though. What? Funny man in a devastating role.

Yeah. The people that are paid to work for me are nodding. Yes, yes, of course. I mean, it's like, it'd be like, did you see Richter? Like, holy shit. I know, but, but I mean, but yes, I'm not saying that that wouldn't be nice. All right, I'm more, I'm going to keep pushing because as you push back, I guess, it's hysterical. Let's just dive into it a little more.

Yeah. I'm going to get past're gonna get past this even more before you tell me why, like no. What do you see the role, if it all started with the supporting actor role? You know what I'm saying? Like in a story. Like in a movie.

Like do you immediately see yourself like, okay, well, I'm playing a farm guy. What's in you that is okay, well, you know, I'm playing, you know, I'm playing a farm, a guy who, you know, what's like in you that is sort of like, you know you're the guy for this role that no one knows you're the guy for this role? Being fucking evil. Oh my God. Being evil and mean and shitty.

Like, I don't ever get to do that and I really feel like I could. Because I can do it, like I can do it when I'm fucking around my friends, and always have been able to be like- The meanest? Yeah, just be the meanest, yeah, meanest, funniest, and like kind of scariest, you know?

And I've only got to do it a couple of times. And it's, and I just, it would be fun. It would be so much fun. Cause I just, I always play like the nice guy or like the kind of dumb, well-meaning fella. And it's like, and that's fine. You know what I mean? And I like, again, I like working.

I'm not, I'm not bitching and moaning, but yeah. But it is like that, that it would be so much fun. It'd be so much fun to be a murderer. It'd be so much fun to just get lots of juicy speeches about like, don't you fuck with me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Like you're sitting there behind it, like whatever, someone comes in and you're like,

you know, you're there. Yeah, yeah, like just totally, totally. See, it was really good. Or, but then, you know, the Oscar bait is always, would be like, you know, horribly malformed, you know? Like, oh, it's old Fireface, here he comes. I have no lip.

Here's your award, sir, you know? They really need to, yeah, it would have to be a combo. Like, for it to be truly fresh. A mean Fireface. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like he was the problem. He was the monster that they all called him. Yes, yes. I feel like they believe and agree with me though.

Yeah. Oh, thanks. That like, I mean, they're pumped. My attitude is like, is that like, anybody that doesn't hire me is missing out. Yes, you know that. Oh yeah, and I've always kind of felt like that. And I'm not arrogant, but it is kind of just like, you need to kind of have that in order to do this.

What if you, right, right. Don't you think like when you go in a- Formula one, they're like the inner bastard, like every driver needs to have an inner bastard. He needs to be like someone that would maybe overtake his teammate when they tell him not to, like, or how would he have gotten here? Right, right, exactly.

Yeah, no, that's there and you choose to keep that down. Cause it is like, you go to, and I mean, whoever goes to auditions, they don't exist anymore, auditions, and everybody, you tape yourself, which is awful. But like, I just remember going to auditions and hearing them in, hearing them being able to hear the... Acting their ass off.

Yeah, acting their ass off, and then sitting there and looking around and just feeling like, well, they'd be stupid not to hire me. You know, like... See, that rules. Now, did you think that knowing, and I'm about to go in there and kill it,

or did you think they'd be stupid not to hire me and I'm about to go in there and maybe fuck it up? Oh, fuck it up. So it wasn't confidence in auditioning at all. That was not in there. Like would you audition well? Sometimes, sometimes. But I always had the feeling of like,

regardless of how the audition goes, give me the job and I'll do a good job for it. And I'll make it good. And especially if it's supposed to be funny, I'll find lots and lots of stuff in there, ways that it's funny that you haven't even noticed yet. So, you know. That's a nice thing to know, right?

Like when other people are trying to say, yes, like if someone's like, you know, here's what we're doing. And sometimes people will be like, oh, this happened recently. They're like, I think there's a lot of humor to be found in something, okay? That was in something I was doing.

And I was like, I got it, I got it. You know? I don't need to plumb for humor with you. You know, or whatever. It is a nice sort of... Oh, I hate it when people wanna talk about what I should do to make them think I'm funny. Like, no, no, no, no.

That's like, that would be like, I always feel like, I always really, it always to me is like, it's the same thing I don't like talking about a show after I did the show, because it's like, to me it's like talking about being in love or something. Like, just let it breathe, let it be. And for somebody to be like, I think in love or something. Like, just let it breathe, let it be. And for somebody to be like,

I think what you should do with this, I just am like, you're basically saying like, well, first I'm going to tickle your taint, then I'm gonna run my tongue up your torso. It's like, no, just fuck me. Don't tell me what you're gonna do. Or don't tell me what you want me to do You know, or don't tell me what you want me to do. You know, like let me show you.

If you wanna. Yeah. Don't help. Let me fuck you. Yeah. Yeah. No, it makes me crazy. That's why you gotta run sometimes.

You gotta run. I wouldn't even have, I wouldn't even, and I've talked about this before, like Conan likes planning and practice. Okay, interesting. And there would be lots of times where there'd be like a last minute bit. Yeah.

That would be, there were there'd be- And you loved it? Yeah, and I would just- You're like, we got it, we got it. Yeah, and he would kind of like want it like, okay, I'm gonna say this and then what are you gonna say? Oh, right, right. Because, you know, it would be like there'd be an A

and a B that we need to get to and how we get there if it wasn't written out for us. And we always were loose. That was always outlined anyway. It would, oh, usually it would be like, we're literally going out in like five minutes and he'd like to have us know how the setup was gonna work. I think I get screwed up by that.

Anytime they tried to like do the, and they'll say this and then you'll say this, my brain's like, it falls apart. Yeah, yeah. I can only almost do it real. Oh yeah, you know, you gotta, let's just do it. It's like. Let's just do it can only almost do it real. Oh, yeah, you know you got no let's just do it It's like let's just do it and I would he would say I'm gonna say this and then what do you say? And I would go like I'm not gonna tell you

You'll find out obviously he's mad he'd be like come on No, but then you know, but then you do the thing and he's actually the quickest right the quickest in the world absolutely, and that was always like watching him would be like, like says the thing. Like it's like. No, one of the biggest comedy brains in history. With precision in one second. Absolutely.

It's like shocking. And mind boggling polls. Like just like things that he'd say where you just, and I mean, and that's the people that, like people that I've known that are like that, where it's just kind of like, oh my God. I could literally have thought for three weeks about what to say there.

And I would have never said that and it's the best fucking thing ever. Yeah, yeah, no, it's, it's, Adam McKay. The Adam McKay has a giant comedy brain and he always was like that. Yeah, yeah. Just constantly saying things where you're just like, what the fuck?

You know, just jaw-droppingly funny. And then, but then there's other, you know, there's other people like, like there's a guy who's a Conan writer named Brian McCann who would do it, but it wasn't like... It wasn't fast tongue, whatever. Yeah, it wasn't fast tongue. It was just like, it was like funny.

Clearly I'm not fast tongue. No, I mean like, I'm like, ah! No, but you are. I'm convinced I got the best ideas with this. No, but I mean, but like... It took a while to get them out. It's a different kind of funny. There's like a visceral sort of like natural funny

as opposed to, you know, where you're just like someone's brain and you feel like, you know, it's like an inflating blimp and you're in a room with it, you know? But anyhow, I don't know. We've talked for a long time. It's been really fun. I mean, I never end a conversation. I don't know. But anyhow, I don't know. We've talked for a long time. It's been really fun. I mean, I never end a conversation.

I don't know how. I just, I'm going forever. Well, let me go through these things. You're appearing in the upcoming movie, A Big Bold Beautiful Journey. Finally got a part. With Colin Farrell, Margot Robbie. Well, now tell me, I mean, we're quitting,

but like acting versus doing your own stuff. As a child, as a little child, I love that. But I mean, but it's like, say they kept you busy just being in other people's things, would that be okay with you? Would I be satisfied? No, no, no. I mean, if I weren't also producing my own work

kind of thing, no, I mean, it wouldn't, like, I would, I mean, I guess, I guess you never know, I guess there's a small chance. But no, I think I want to try. Try her Hollywood. Yeah, yeah, try. Yeah, definitely. But it's like I want to make the movie. I'll limit yourself. Yeah, I want to I'm Sylvester Stallone. You know, like I want to do all of it. I want to write. Right. I mean, he didn't do all that. You know what I'm saying? Right. No, I know. I know. I want to be at the top. know, I know, I know. I wanna be at the top. Right. I wanna be fulfilling a vision. I can barely, I write something,

I can barely imagine someone else directing. I'm like, wait, but like on the day, like, what, like I'm not gonna be able to pipe in and say this is what the vision is. And like, that's what I really, that's the next phase, is me not just doing my own show, but having a 500, you having a 500 team army execute in Creative Vision. See, we started talking when we came in here.

That's the part I don't think I could handle. Like, when we were walking in here, you said like, oh, you gotta record this. Like, I would not wanna be Conan, because I just, it's too many people and too many, you know, I just, I like to go home and be not bothered. And I just feel, I just, you know, it's, and it's not, it's just a difference in personality.

And it's just, but like, there's a lot, there's a lot of show business where I'm just like, wait, that wouldn't mean that I'd get to just sit home by myself, with my wife and my child, and not be bothered by things. Yeah, no, no, that's true, that's true. I think I like to not think about what it would take, like extremes.

I've had plenty of years of just being alone. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you got enough. In my home, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right, right. Well, you are back trying the new thing. Sure. It's coming together. Stand up. Yeah, September 19th.

You're doing Jacqueline Novak 003. Yeah, it's the third show. Okay. No, it's- At Largo. 003 for sure, because there could be at least hundreds of them, you see what I'm saying? Yes, the third show. Okay. No, it's at Largo. 003 for sure, because there could be at least hundreds of them at the same time. Right, right, exactly. Maybe should have gone 0003.

Listen, no. That's too much. Wait, cross that bridge when you get to 999, you know? Then it's a whole new thing, you know? But are you thinking, is this just standup or are you kind of putting together the next? It's, you know. The next.

I think it'll be probably in that same vein of, I mean, whatever it, like it shall become whatever it becomes, you know what I mean? And if it is me in a lounge on a piano while people come in and out, yeah, maybe that's what I write, maybe that's what it's meant to be. Maybe it's another theatrical total,

and this is the new show. Although, I don't wanna quite feel like, and this is the new show, that just feels a little like, I don't know, something about that sounds weird to me too. Why? Because it is. No, right, right. It's like the new album, and people put, yeah.

I guess it's just. You can't avoid that. It'll be whatever. You can't restart new album and people put, yeah. I guess it's just... You can't avoid that. It'll be whatever. You can't restart the world and be like, who is she? Yeah, yeah. One of those men in black flashers that you've flashed to all of America. Yes.

And they're like, our memory is wiped. Another historic debut. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, I guess actually it is like, I've set up a certain thing with the one show. I've alerted a certain kind of person that they might like what I do and who I am, and in theory that should empower me,

kind of like, you know, go for it more, but then you just become, cycle smaller and smaller into seven mirrors with your fan base. I don't know, it's like, you gotta maintain, ah, it's chaos. The point is, I don't know. It's like you gotta maintain... Uh... It's chaos. The point is, I don't know what it'll be, but I'm feeling it out.

It has to be... If you're a band, do you feel like this would be your second album? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's the... You know. And... Yeah. Follow up to the smash hit.

Well, yeah, remember like, I don't know, do you ever see Wonder Boys based on the book? Ages ago, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just like, you know, they're like, they're all muttering in his, in his, um, in the party with the faculty, whatever, it's just like, they're like, and he hasn't, like, he hasn't written a thing since Arsonist's Daughter.

You know, like, just like, Arsonist's Daughter. Arsonist's Daughter. Yeah, like, breakout, like, novel, it's just like, they're like, and he hasn't written a thing since Arsonist's Daughter. You know, just like Arsonist's Daughter. It's his like, yeah, like breakout novel, you know? It's been six years since Arsonist's Daughter. It's a perfect like novel. Oh, I love it. A title that I don't know where it's going to end, but I just, I want so badly to put in something.

In my mind right now, it's a radio show, a radio drama called Murder Please. Comma. Yeah, yeah, Murder Please with an exclamation point. It's gravy. Oh my God, yes. Murder Please. Yeah, that is.

Jacqueline, this has been really great. Thanks so much. I can't, you know, it's hard Jacqueline, this has been really great. Thanks so much. Yeah. You know, it's hard to tell. Trust me. I don't know what the others are like. Trust me.

They're beaming. I'm not gonna say it doesn't matter, because it does. It does matter, and it was really great. Okay, good. I hope you feel the world is wide open. I love the work you do. I love what you're doing, and I keep doing it.

And tell them they need to re-watch, apparently. Apparently that's, oh no, they need to play it all night. I gotta go to number one. Oh, all right, yeah. Because you know, once I get number one. Get on your knees. It's on, what is it, Netflix? Yeah, I mean, we already told them, we're good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was telling you to tell them. Go put it on now, yeah. Just leave it on? Yeah, yeah. Thought it was, okay, I'm sorry. That's what you should be, you should be getting bot TVs. You should get like a TV farm that just watches it.

Because if I get up to number one. Over and over and over. Then they realize indeed this is where it belongs. Like that guy that they just caught that made a bunch of AI songs and then set up bots to just listen to the AI songs that he just made up out of bullshit. Oh.

And then he got like, it was like $10 million in royalties. No. That he was getting from- What's the game I see? Genius. I know! I love a scam. From Spotify.

He's like, bullshit made up songs like that AI did, and then computers listening in air quotes to them. It's such an application of creativity. The scam artist is indeed an artist. Exactly. Anyway, anyway people, go out there and get some art in you. And Jacqueline, thanks so much. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.

And I'll be back next week with more Three Questions. The Three Questions with Andy Richter is a Team Coco production. It is produced by Sean Doherty and engineered by Rich Garcia. Additional engineering support by Eduardo Perez and Joanna Samuel. Executive produced by Nick Leow, Adam Sacks, and Jeff Ross. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Battista, with assistance from Maddy Ogden.

Research by Alyssa Grahl. Don't forget to rate and review and subscribe to The Three Questions with Andy Ricker wherever you get your podcasts. And do you have a favorite question you always like to ask people? Let us know in the review section. Can't you tell my love's a-growing? Can't you feel it ain't a-showin'? Oh, you must be a-knowin'. I've got a big, big love... This has been a Team Coco production.