The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Jake Johnson

Episode Date: April 9, 2024

Actor and podcaster Jake Johnson joins Andy Richter to talk the secret to a good call-in show, the confidence of old men in locker rooms, performing for absolutely no-one, their other names (Mark Weinberger and Andy Swanson), feeling smarter than your teachers in school, laughing at self-serious actors, his path to “New Girl" and "Self Reliance," and much more.

Hi everybody, welcome back to The Three Questions. I'm your host, Andy Richter. This week I am talking to the actor and filmmaker Jake Johnson. You know Jake from TV shows like New Girl and Minx and movies like Spider-Man Into the Spider-Verse. Be sure to check out Jake's directorial debut, Self-Reliance, on Hulu and listen to his advice podcast, We're Here to Help. Here's my conversation. It was a good one with Jake Johnson. So I'm doing a call-in show, which is like the first date is like in two weeks. So I have to – classic me.

I'm like, I guess I should figure out what I'm going to do. I guess I should figure out what this thing is. So I do a call-in podcast now. Oh, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's a trip. Now, how do you, do people call in

and leave messages or do you let people know? So we do it, so we experimented at the beginning. So I wasn't sure, I thought like, well, let's just take any.

Yeah. But the problem when you take any is you're kind of beholden to whoever the caller is and their tone. Right.

And certain tones, I don't want to be in those talks. Right, of course. So we now have, we have an email, they email the show, and our producer kind of. Screens them first. Kind of screens them. Doesn't quite do like the pre-interview. Yeah, yeah.

But we'll say like, this feels like our show. So it's live to us. Right. But it's not truly live. Oh, I see. So it is like a thing where they have, we have a whole column. They,

you tell them be by your phone Tuesday or whatever. Okay. And so they email in and now we, we, you know, you get hundreds of emails. Yeah. Yeah.

And then from that, cause at the beginning of our podcast, we would have things, you know, ours is we're here to help. It's an advice thing. Yeah. So we would get people calling in and being like,

I've never been more depressed in my life. My, my wife left me. I'm, you know, drinking a lot. And my buddy Gareth and I would be like, oh, exactly. One thing you could think about is, that's all, folks. And then we would sit. And we'd be looking at each other being like, what the fuck? And then my buddy Gareth, no kids, a cat, doesn't want him.

They would be like, some dude would go like, you know, my son has big anxiety about school. And Gareth would go, let me tell you. And I was finally like, this, we're out of line, man. We need calls like, I put too much cream on my hands and my hands are mushy. And then we go, let me give you an hour of advice. Although, in your defense, what the fuck are these people asking you for? Yes, agreed. You know what I mean?

Like, they are asking for it. But they are. You know. Not to blame the victim. But let's blame the goddamn victim. But you get into a spot where, and I don't know if it's just years of being an actor or I've always been this way. But whatever the tone is, you go like, well, that's the tone I've always lived in now. So they'll go like, you know, like this has been happening. I'm really, you know, sad. And I'll

go like, my voice would change early. God go, well, depression's a very real thing. Let me tell you about what I know about depression. Nothing besides my own. I have no advice to give. If we keep everybody on the same tone we find the callers are funnier they're lighter they're coming in they know the show yeah yeah so i'm like now so you kind of expect them to meet your level we walk in what's your name where you're from right what's your problem yeah if they are low energy we know right away this isn't going to work right right you're the you're the third part it's like going back to improv days yeah you're in the scene with us yes and if they're not the scene sucks yeah yeah because when somebody's really a fucking buzzkill i don't care how funny you are spinning

and dancing it's a boring scene yeah yeah and our show we found really works when that person is the star yeah where you find a rhythm and then you go like, we had somebody who, she got married, she called in. After they got married, they moved in together. He stretches naked in the morning. She wants it to end. She's seeing stuff she doesn't want to see. Right, right.

So fun call, whatever. We brought him on as the follow-up. Yeah. He was just really doubling down on the bit. I don't have the time to put underpants on. And're like throw a pair of man panties on and he goes or just go in a room and shut a door he's like we have a small place and he goes my time's really important to me and he wouldn't break on that and you felt like oh this is a great bit from a guy who doesn't do bits right and i was like we could play this for And then Gareth kept being like, enough's enough, man.

Put underpants on. Right, right. And he would go like, look, I got to be at work at 8.15. I wake up at 7.45, and I'm like, in terms of this game, I'm with you, man. Right. Time is precious. I think I would have been like, look, put up or shut up. You know, we got some floor space here.

Let's see what we're talking about. See what we can do. We need to walk a mile in your wife's shoes. Let's see that ass. Yeah, let's see those dog balls. Dog balls are the worst part of the public gym sauna experience. Right, right. The YMCA in Hollywood was my deep understanding of old man dog balls like oh

oh my god i went to um i i i went to did you ever go to the russian baths sure yeah yeah there's in this in the like the steam room there's like an old russian man who's been working in that steam room for however many years yeah and he's a guy that hits you with the old cleats or what, you know, or there's some feathery foamy thing. But we're in there and he has to crawl up and like, you know, like fix, like change the steam. And it's kind of like, you know, there's like kind of little bleachers in there and he's like up to fix.

And it's just full on, you know, like there's this asshole. Like there's his asshole. And there's his balls and taint. And the thing is, it's beautiful. Interesting turn. It's pink and pristine like a baby. Because it's been marinating perfectly. Yes. It's marinated perfectly. He's been like on a steam table keeping his flesh like, you know, plump and moisturized you know hydrated forever so

um anyway i love that man yeah um i keep waiting for the turn in my life when the idea of other men just seeing my dick my balls and my asshole means nothing yeah yeah because there is an old there's an age a man hits and And they just, it's different. Yeah, yeah. Size doesn't matter. Droopy nuts don't matter. Yeah. Gross butt cheeks don't matter.

Yeah. Some of those old men, butt cheeks in their legs, I'm like, honest to God, Carl, you should be a little embarrassed. Like, I swear, I'm not looking, my man. This looks bad. Like, you look really bad. Yeah. You should throw a pair of boxers on. Or the towel right next to you cover

that saggy white ass yeah it's disgusting and i'll be excited for the moment when i go like i don't care because i'm 45 i still care i thought 45 i would already be on the other side yeah i kind of don't you don't care and i found i found like well and this is a weird progression of just you know like like i fucking hate my body yeah you know i mean i you know like janine garofalo used to have a bit that like i think i don't know if it was her body or her vagina but she's like we're like roommates that don't talk very much and that's kind of like my body i kind of and i remember like before know, getting into my teen years and before I ever was naked in front of somebody, in front of a woman and, you know, in a sexual

situation, I'd be like, oh my God, I'm going to be such a nervous wreck and everything. And I was so happy to find out like, oh no, I'm not. Like just something about like, well, the clothes are off, you know, like, and I was like, well, all right, what do you want to look at you know like i don't know why you just fell into confidence yeah i just was like well yeah and then you know i i don't know why i can't explain it but it was just like all right i'm naked i'm you know i think it was perhaps you know i i don't know that i knew yes and at that point but it was very very much like, well, I got to go with this. You were an early improv guy.

Yeah, and it's like it's silly to be, you know, it's silly to not to act like I'm not naked because I'm naked. And then I found, too, on the Conan show, we started to we found like one of the tools in our comedy box was nudity. Right. You know, like, pixelated nudity. And there's kind of, like, there's a bit that, of Conan and me, supposedly we were in the NBC steam room, and we're walking in robes, and he goes, like, oh, hey. Or no, he says, do you want to go to the steam room?

And I say, yeah. And so we're in robes. We're walking. He goes, yeah, it's right through here. to go to the steam room? And I say, yeah. And so we're in robes. We're walking to it. He goes, yeah, it's right through here. And he tears the robe off me and pushes me through. And it's the today show set. And I ended up sitting down with, I ended up sitting down with Matt Lauer, you know, and like, I told him like, when I sit down, like put a piece of paper under me before

my ass hits the, but I'm wearing a dance belt yeah which for people that don't know it's like a jock strap with one strap up the back yeah and it's what ballet dancers wear so they don't have jock strap marks it's just one crack strap and you know but you're pretty fucking naked you know people can't see your balls and and the first time that like i ever had to do that and i had to do it a number of times, I really did. I was all nervous. And then the robe comes off. And instantly, it was like, oh, well, that's it.

I'm not going to get more naked. So it actually became kind of fun to not really care that much. That's a cool character trait. I can't relate. Yeah, really? I wish I could. The first time I was like naked naked in front of a woman i was 15 it was her senior prom we had been kind of dating but this was the night

where we were like we were in a hotel in chicago at senior prom you were ambitious i was yeah yeah but it went sideways because it was when those clothes came off i guess i did what i've always done in improv and that is why are we saying yes and when no, but is equally funny. I know you old-timers. It's not really, but okay. I know you old-timers made a lot of rules, but it's really funny to me when somebody goes like,

I'm an astronaut, and you go, no. That's an old one, yeah, yeah. My king, you are not, my friend. Get back to your work. Start typing. Look, it's not good for the next 25 minutes or morale but it is funny and the first time those pants went off my thought was like pretty strange this like toddler body is in a hotel with that woman's body yeah yeah this thing does not belong yes near that thing yeah i don I don't know. I just, you know, because I definitely, I have, if you see old footage of me, I have the same dimension.

Yes. Like you said, toddler body. Yes. Like I still have. A toddler body. Yeah. Like, you know, it looks like. Same.

Like two semi-circles opposite each other, belly and butt, you know. If I see myself. I mean, except for the massive cock. Yeah, of course course it's given but if i see myself at certain angles in the mirror in the bathroom i'm shocked this is what a man's body oh absolutely can't believe it absolutely i'm like i literally if i had if you didn't have the face and you took away the hair and put a diaper on that that's an adorable baby that's not a man's butt that's not a apex predator how'd that baby get that beard look at that baby like my first instinct is after having kids is i want

to pick that baby up i don't think a woman's instinct is i want to fuck that thing oh god bless women and their i don't understand how how their brains work. Whoever created all of us, they did it fair for us. They love us for something other than this horrible vessel. They also, what's really funny is the things that they'll be like, it was really sexually attractive. And you're like, what? The way he did that math equation. Yeah, yeah. And you're like, you're the best.

It'll be like a total babe and some math gig and she's like there was nothing sexier than when he did calculus i'm like yeah there is you yeah yeah literally you drinking water is sexier than whatever he fucking did with calculus i have like something that's i've always found funny is like how uh like any kind of manual labor yes like my my ex-wife used to love it when I got up on a ladder. She's like, oh my God, that's so hot when you get up. I'm like, okay. I mean, the view is not great, but you know, when you're looking up, but okay.

You know what's a lie I don't buy? And my wife has tried it and I don't buy it. This idea of like, if I'm doing dishes or do it, she'll be like, sexy. And I'm like, i'm not falling for it you're playing checkers not chess you're just trying to get me through the dishes more this isn't sexy right right right i'm wearing basketball shorts a triple xl shirt i got for free doing some gig yes and like i'm listening to like weird music doing dishes right you're just trying to and i guess what i'm not falling for it's like

giving a dog a treat exactly yeah when they when they poo outside yeah yeah good job oh thank you she loves me and i go i want to live in the yes dear world where it works for me but i'm like i'm just not falling for it yeah if i'm this dog i am gonna shit inside later because you're at work for 10 hours i know i should wait yeah but also i'll take the punishment right right yeah yeah well uh let's get to your story you were born mark jake johnson weinberger yes sir um and then you took your mother's name my father who i'm now very close with uh left the family when i was about two oh wow and then uh drugs and alcohol and then he sobered up when i was about two. Oh, wow. And then drugs and alcohol. And then he sobered up when I was 18.

Oh, wow. So my first name was after an uncle who passed. So I was always Jake. And then my dad, I had a lot of anger towards. So all my siblings took Johnson. And then later in life, when we all got to know him, I was like, well, I i mean i love you too so that is all for me late 90s stuff right right have you ever considered taking his name back um no um i've been

jake johnson since i was about 15 right right um but no and you probably get confused with Jack Johnson. I do. So you get a lot of shrapnel. My friends, my good friends call me Mark Weinberger when I have a really good idea. They all say like, Jake Johnson's okay. Right, right. But I'll go like, you know what, guys, we're looking at this wrong. We should go.

They'll go like, Mr. Mark Weinberger. Shows up. We hang out with Jake. We wish we were friends with Mark. So like the better side of me. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because I was born Paul Andrew Richter. And then when my mom, when I was, my folks divorced when I was four.

Okay. And where were you born? I was born in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Okay, Michigan. But I'm from Illinois because after my folks, my dad's family is from Springfield. My mom's family was from Yorkville, you know, straight out west of the city, Aurora-ish. And when they broke up, they were living in Bloomington, Indiana. My dad's a college professor, was, he's retired now.

And we moved back in with my grandparents. So from age four, I lived with my grandparents. When I was about eight, my mom remarried, and her second husband adopted me and my brother because my mom wanted to have more kids. So we took his name. And my dad signed off on it. He was reluctant, but, you know.

So for you, does your stepdad feel more like your kind of father? No. No, he didn't. I mean, he was always kind of my stepdad, and he's my half-brother and sister's dad. He's passed away now. No, he was always kind of my stepdad. Interesting. But I was Andy Swanson for – Crazy. was always kind of my stepdad but i was andy swanson uh for crazy yeah from third grade until

the end of high school crazy and then i and then i and then my dad asked after my mom and my stepdad split up if you if i would change back and i was kind of like yeah it's so inconvenient but he really wanted and i was like and i was like all right i'm doing this but i'm doing this for you yeah yeah yeah um i so yeah i i can relate to that i want my father and i got very close before he passed yeah uh and really it was like the weird thing that happened where you know you have like like as you get older the amount of like friends fade yeah but a few are actually the top three. Right. Of course. And I was like, weird. My dad's becoming a genuine, like top five.

Yeah. And at that point, probably if I wasn't in the business where I was already, my name was already something and I was known as something. Yeah. And it was like logged with a union, you know? Yeah. Yeah. We'll throw an M in the as something. Yeah. And it was like logged with a union. Yeah. You know, yeah, yeah. We'll throw an M in the middle there. Uh-huh. Beautiful. Oh, right, right, right. Jake M. Johnson.

But there might have been something where I, like my brother later in life, I think he hyphenated. Oh. I don't know if he did anything legal, but just to say like that, like, hey, dad, guess what's back, buddy? You know? So that idea. Yeah. I would have been happy to do for him. But it's weird with a name.

And it's funny you say Swanson because growing up, my mom was a bit of a gypsy. And the name, she wanted to create our own family name. Yeah. So we would be the, and she literally came up with Swansons. the and she literally came up with swansons so for a long time we in our inner circle of family were flirting with the idea of being the swanson because it was like johnson but its own thing right right wow and then so it's just because it sounded similar there wasn't like it was literally another name that was like swan it was literally like if your name was bandy victor oh okay it was literally like if your name was bandy bichter oh okay it was that much thought to us but wow when i'm in fifth grade or sixth grade my mom said like we're gonna be the swansons

wow and we all went like do we have to tell people that yeah and we waited but we told like our close friends like we're probably gonna be the swansons and then every like six months for a while we were gonna move so i was like i had to say goodbye to my friends a lot. And then we never moved, but there was a lot of like my dear friends being like, fuck man, Seattle. And I go, yeah. Yeah.

Like you're my best friend, brother. Six months later, Cincinnati. Well, Jakey Swanson is going to be a Cincinnati kid. It was New Jersey since. And then when I got older, I asked my mom, I was like, cause it was pre-internet when i got older i asked my mom i was like

because it was pre-internet yeah yeah and i'm like how'd you pick those places she'll go looked at a map wow just but but wow kind of we never went i know i know it's like a kind of wow yeah it's like a spec script no i mean wow i mean wow just to live like that you know like emotional goodbyes is she uh an adult child well she's kind of she's a she had a very tough childhood yeah like as bad as it kind of fucking who get over it she also raised us yeah yeah uh but she's a eccentric character she gets very bored very easily and then very excited. So all my whole pursuit of this business is because of my mom. Is the ADD of your mom.

Yes. And, but also like anything's possible. Right. You know, like, Oh, you could go do this and this and this,

and you have that and you have this gift and you being like, yeah, totally. But did it create a sort of like a dynamic in your brain where you're like allergic to false promises or to plans not followed through on? Or are you just mostly into the enthusiasm of it? I mean, probably both. You know, I've now been with my wife since 2004. Like, there's a lot of like boundaries and control in my life.

And I like being a control freak and having things a certain way. Right. But when I look back, I look back with fondness of the way her brain worked. Right. I mean, I dropped out of school at 15 for a year, took a year off because of the way her brain worked. Right. And it ended up being a really good thing but it was a really weird path and one now that i have kids i wouldn't take right but she was right so you go like it was her idea

that she dropped out of school so i was diagnosed with dyslexia when i was in like fourth grade but it was the 80s funny it's always funny you look at a page and what's on there and your brain is like, no. Hilarious. By the way, agreed. Yeah, yeah. But what was funny about that era is they didn't know how to treat it or what to do with it. Right. So they put me in a class with like.

Is this in Evanston? This was in Winnetka. We moved to Evanston when I was 15. Okay. So I was in a class. And Winnetka's got good schools great schools yeah yeah so you think that even at that point yeah this was probably 80 86 87 uh i was put in a class with what i remember to be like 35 year old guys taken out of with my peer group yeah one day they go

like we think jake should get tested for this thing. And I'm like, cool. Which means like, no math today. I rule this school. Right, exactly. See you nerds. Yeah. And then they were like, great. So now you're going to go to this class.

And there's like three 35-year-old men where I'm like, you guys go to school here too? You have peers. Wow. What am I doing here? Were they getting like a GED kind of thing or? It was like very uh special needs i see and then me yeah and i i told my mom and she's like that's not the room for you you're not being taken away from the group yeah we are not going down this road right right so she was like let's

put grown men in the room with a random grown man in a room with a small boy. So she went back and said, he's not dyslexic. He's lazy. Never mentioned it again. Wow. So there was no intervention. There was no anything. It was now you just got to work harder. And when I was 15, the rubber met the road and I just wasn't doing good enough in school.

And- Were you doing the work or was it so frustrating that you just were like, fuck this? Well, it was part like, I would love to blame it on dyslexia but also like yeah it was also i love fucking around i love getting laughs school sucks i also truly believed until that year my role in school was to out talk the teacher yeah and it was a competition wow and it was like well you're up front but i don't think you're that entertaining right right and i'm in the back with like mike lyons who's the funniest dude in the whole world yeah yeah yeah that's how funny mike is we're gonna rip this shit and the louder we got the more attention we got too i

don't know about you but like because i i was just and i just talked about the other day on this thing and it's just like i was a smart ass just couldn't keep my mouth shut they i i i mean it's like somebody asked like how you know how did you get good at being on a talk show couch it's like because i if i saw an opening when i was in a freshman in high school life and the science teacher like said something i was like oh fuck that's really oh my god i got a good one here blubbity blub out in the hall okay so fine fine but also too being smarter than your teachers but there were so many times when i was just like you're dumb yes just dumb yes yeah i also felt that uh i always and i still live for it when there's that slight moment that's off. Yeah.

And you get to see it first. Yeah. And that's what school was. I remember I was on a traveling baseball team, and we had a tough guy from the city who was our coach who didn't have kids. Yeah. They tried that experiment. What a great idea. Yeah, where it was like, he's 28.

Yeah. And he played at Colgate, got a catcher. Right, right. And now he's going to take a bunch of 14-year-old boys and yell at him which is like such a hilarious mix yeah yeah like it was a lot of like what the like you guys have talent but you lose and being like man this guy's yelling we're so used to like mr williams doing it and then it's going to mcdonald's yeah but he sat us down and was giving us just the we have have the wrong attitude speech. And we did. Right.

We had a bunch of kids, when I was one of them, who, you know, was good enough at baseball, but thought it was funny. Yeah. And he squats down and he's just belittling us to a way that coaches did. Yeah. And in his little cutoff sweatpants shorts, there was a slight hole and you could, it wasn't his balls, but it quite literally was the chote. you saw the turkey neck skin yeah yeah and it was either me or that guy mike uh one of us saw it first yeah and i still remember the moment it was either when he

hit me when i went like boom yeah turkey neck yeah yeah i see his nuts yeah yeah the joy that filled me was like still to this day when you're like on a set and there's something that happens really funny oh yeah this is the best on planet earth oh yeah this like i'm seeing the nuts before others but like this whole team's about to die and very quickly more and more players started seeing it and you would do like they like look at his nose you go like he'd be like because you know what it is jake it's attitude now go look at his nuts look at nuts look at his nuts his nuts then you'd see the faces yeah yeah like oh what joy yeah no i totally get that because that's on the talk show couch. Like to me, like the greatest days were like seeing the plastic surgery scars behind Kenny Rogers ears.

Like having heard for years, Kenny Rogers has to shave behind his ears because of the facelift. And like being like, okay, I've heard that. But then, and then being able to see, holy fuck, there's a razor stubble behind his ears. By the way, what a, a lot of things that I'll have in this business and I get in trouble for it at times when I'm in a scene, but it's hard not to watch. Every once in a while,

you'll be in a scene with somebody, you'll be doing something and you get to go like stop acting and yeah and you'll just be like because those little things are funny yeah or you'll like see somebody you've watched for years and they're like ramping themselves up yeah and you're like it's funny yeah yeah it's weird what you're doing yes you had the best seat in the house. Yeah. Because you were in it, but then you also got to like dissociate. Oh, absolutely. And just like be stoned out and just go like, look at that human being talk. No, I had to. There were definite times where, you know, like where it was class and I was zoned out and the teacher said my name.

Except this is like on a talk show couch. And I'm like, uh, quick context clues. Oh, what do I say? You know, but I, but most of the time that,

that really was fairly rare. And like I say, with my bad attention span, yes, I I'm surprised, but I, it was, I mean,

there was part of me that's like, I'm getting paid well to focus for not even an hour, eight minutes. There's commercial breaks. Well, I also have that, uh, when I do a talk show, I will have in the middle of it. Sometimes, you know, like you have your little stories and I'll like finish the first story. And as the host is doing the transition, I have to fight to focus. Yeah. Cause there are moments where I'll go like, oh, the anxiety is over.

Now I'm here. Right, right. There's the audience. And then you have like, you know, because they show the audience, there'll be like a few people in the crowd who are like, hi. You're like, how you doing? We're all just in this weird room together, guys. You have to be like, stay in it. But your guys is in the early 2000s, late 90s.

What you guys were doing meant so much to me oh good we had like a my girlfriend at the time annie baker and i were both just grinding and trying to figure it out and that was the show we connected on together so it's a really funny thing of like shows that really mean something to you yeah that you're like oh yeah like you guys had your own experience with it yes but you're like it was wild and i guys had your own experience with it. Yes. But you're like, it was wild and I've had this with New Girl. But people have experience with the work you do that's not yours. And people will come up and say a moment or a scene or a movie I did. And I'll go like, I honestly don't even remember.

And I'm like, but that's cool. Yeah, yeah. But your experience, it's yours now. Yeah. Well, it is. That's cool. Yeah, yeah. But your experience, it's yours now. Yeah.

Well, it is. And it's a dichotomy of doing this stuff because I don't know if you have the same thing. But to me, I think from where it comes from me is a very Midwestern place, which is just my, like I have so much of my reaction to show businesses. Take it easy. Like Jesus Christ. Don't jesus christ slow down crawling up your own ass well that's yes over and over and over like you know like yes watching a lot uh uh award shows like there's so much you're on like oh my god like holy shit this is humiliated i actually after i was watching the oxers oscars and I said on, it's not Twitter.

I mean, I don't go on Twitter anymore, whenever the other ones are. But I was like, it's so great that once a year, if only for once a year, Hollywood gets a chance to celebrate itself. Because it's just like, and there is that. There's like, Jesus Christ, it's just, it's most of it's so silly and so dumb and so disposable but then it's like you meet people it's like oh but it's also meaningful but it also makes people happy but i think we go too far yeah and not just the award like i haven't watched any of the awards in years because they really bum me out yeah but the other thing that's been really bumming me out lately is and alienated me from acting is actors talking acting oh my god and

because of podcasts oh my god you know there was a time when there was way more mystery in our game and we were joking before of like well now we all do podcasts so like the game just keeps changing yeah there's so much talk about process and what actors are doing and in the end you know especially when you have kids we're doing what they're doing in fourth grade so yes we're doing it at a bigger level but like fucking stop like yeah if if it's bringing joy for people and you're getting paid well we have a wonderful job right but just cool it yeah cool it a little bit with like well the beginning of my studies if i'm going to tell this story i've got to tell it right when i was 17 i threw a rock through a window and that

led me to play yeah yeah yeah timmy rockman where you're like honestly chill out yeah it's like a it was a good performance like that's what's making me go like i'm just having moments where and it might be midwest yeah but we are very lucky i've you know i came up through the improv world i had a sketch show for years i've done so many shows where literally nobody showed up yeah i did an improv show once in new york where my buddy oliver and i were very excited we like rented a place in times square with our own money because we're like we don't need UCB. We are the thing. We're the man.

So every great group just at one point breaks off, man. Yeah, yeah. And this is our moment. So we like rented a place at like an old porn theater, went to like Times Square, Hannah Flyer, literally doing bits on the streets. Yeah. So that somebody would turn and would be like,

if you like that. And literally people would be like, didn't like didn't like that no no it's creepy yeah honestly couldn't hear you just saw you making a weird face seems really needy all i heard was do you like that yeah yeah you like that like that then you like this i just took it because you guys scared me but we ended up one night we went the theater. We're doing like all our very embarrassing warmups, right? Right. Where we're not, not zip zaps out, man. We were involved like, wow.

Yeah. You know, getting all the crazies out, man. Chugging our beers, getting ready. We're all, all our egos are, you know, we're already in a big fight of like, well, whenever you do that intro, it does divide the audience. You know, all of our bullshit. We, the sound guy comes a couple of minutes before and he says nobody's here not it's a small house literally no one zero ticket sales and he goes you i mean you we didn't he wasn't our friend we paid him yeah yeah so he's like so i get paid already the theater gets paid already what do you guys want to do and my buddy oliver and i had like a real come to jesus moment yeah and we both said like we do the show and we did it

for no one as hard as we could and we you know you can half-ass a show yeah we didn't wow we did like as you know like when you're half-assing it and you're rehearsing you slowly do the costume changes right talking we sprinted backstage wow we're now in a business that like if you do something people pay attention yeah i'm like that's the fucking honor that's the gag yeah yeah if that magic trick is working and they're coming don't ruin it with this other stuff like guys let's stop doing the blockbuster awards because eventually we're going to push people away and they're going to go, I'm getting sick of these people. I, I would hope that there would be, but it doesn't seem to, you know, there's publicists

still seem to be out there doing what they do. And people still are talking about what people wear and, you know i and and people are still on you know getting interviewed and talking about like talking about as if they were talking about saving the world well or just like a really arduous path yeah when they talk about i worked on this accent for three years that's right like wait yeah you went somewhere on a regular basis to learn how to talk like someone from somewhere yeah exactly right and you're acting like and by the way it was only okay yeah people from there go now i don't know if this is true i just saw it on instagram and i thought it was funny and i don't know the guy personally i've only heard nice things

but i heard this really funny thing that i didn't see Bradley Cooper's new movie where he's the conductor. Yeah. But supposedly he spent like seven years or something insane learning how to do that piece. How to conduct. Yeah. And then I saw this piece on Instagram. Again, I don't know if it's real or it was just these two guys who are assholes. But it was these two dudes who do music.

So they had a violin and a cello and they said, we're going to try to play as he conducts. Oh, wow. And it was gibberish. Right, right. And they were like, nope. And I was like, oh, if this isn't just an Instagram bit, if it's real, then you've got the thing where you're like, you're not a good conductor. You're an actor. Right, right, right.

Brilliantly. You're one of our best actors. Yeah. But the sales pitch of like, and I became one of our best conductors but the sales pitch of like and i became one of our best conductors it's like no yeah yeah you just pretended right and that's a funny thing of acting where i feel like as we sell these projects sometimes it's different yeah where it's you're selling it as if you're doing something great and special but what's great and special is you gave people two hours of entertainment. Yeah. And that's great. Yeah. No, I think sometimes people, actors, and it does seem to be mostly men, put this kind of burden on themselves.

Like I remember there's a famous quote during Marathon Man that. Yes, try acting. Yeah. try acting yeah yeah like dustin hoffman is shooting a scene and he says yeah i haven't slept in three days just so i could really seem you know like i've been tortured and and lawrence olivier was like oh dear boy you should try acting you know i like i just love that so much because like my you know i i i've said in front of other actors when being interviewed about process, because my process was I did improv, then I started getting work. And, you know, like the first film set, professional film set that I was on that wasn't a commercial that I was a production assistant on, I just was like, it was a it was a movie and you know and like when they were like they shot the other actors first it was beau bridges and swoozie kurtz and they shot them

first and they're like okay coming around and i was like what coming what's coming around what does that mean you know and i was like and then so i just kind of like just again context clues kind of like waiting for like, oh, oh, they're going to come shoot on my side now. I get it. I get it. I had this similar thing. I did.

I booked a commercial. I was at the improv Olympic out here, booked a commercial and the camera was on a crane and they were pushing it towards me. As I was saying, my line, it threw me in a way as if it was a dinosaur coming at me. And I literally, I think i said to the director because i was on a roof and they needed me to do a thing and jump back and it kept pushing i think i said is there any way you could not push it towards me while i'm talking yeah yeah like could you get that out of here so i can do a scene and it was so insane to me that i like had

to i found a class of like acting in front of the camera right right to like figure it like you're not just but everything in this game feels like you do something and then you catch up and then you catch i had a funny thing with uh ophelia who i did a show called minks with where because the process stuff i do like to have all my like secret weird stuff you know i have created all this goofy stuff that like i don't talk about but it helps me get to where i'm trying to get right and she was very much is it like character stuff in your mind like you or just you know just stuff that makes me feel like the person so if it's a song if it's what or whatever the tone is right right it gets me out of my own yeah yeah whatever zone i'm in

i'm now in that zone i understand and for this one character like props were a big part of it music i always had music and i had props and she wasn't. She was just like an English actor who was like fucking great. Yeah. Theater trained, says her lines. It was a fun show. I liked that show a lot. Oh, thank you.

Me too. It was a really good people. But she then said at one point, she was like, I like had a cigarette, rings. And she goes like, do you honestly need so much stuff? She's like, can't you just sit there and say your lines and i had that embarrassing moment of like i don't think i can yeah yeah sorry i have to have like 19 like quiet on set i have to go like three jokes with the sound guy why i don't know and we go yeah it's just and also you were playing

like a pornographer and Jesus Christ if you can't cut that ham thick I don't know what are we doing come on I'm a pornographer but I do think all of that process stuff is really fun and it's really fun for me as an actor

when you like see somebody else's stuff when you're talking about like the line or the Kenny Rogers I like see somebody else's stuff when you're talking about like the line like yeah yeah or the kenny rogers i like seeing somebody's process oh i i i do too i do and maybe it's my wife when we first started dating all unless it's ridiculous well unless it's fucking with mine yeah unless it's it's like taking everyone else's time like i my thing is don't slosh your bucket onto other yes well that's midwest your fucking bucket around but if you slosh it on other people i totally agree and i'm not even so much me it's just anybody you know i agree so yeah yes but i haven't really most for the most part i think hollywood gets a really bad rep and for the most part when you're on set i don't see that many pieces of shit you have a few

like egomaniacs and you get a few people who just aren't that smart yeah but for the most part it's like everybody's just trying to do their thing and watching somebody's process like i did an indie with when i was saying earlier i started watching with uh jk simmons we'd made a movie called ride the eagle and uh we did a scene together and he had like a monologue monologue and trent my buddy trent o'donnell and I had written it and right before when we were running lines I said like hey I'm an improv guy if you want to like open it up and he's like I like the lines and I was like yeah but what I'm saying is like this wasn't written by old Billy Shakespeare it was written by like Jakey J and that guy Trent like yeah yeah if you want I was like and if you want to go back and forth we'll be in a two oh so you had you had written some of it I Trent and I wrote the script. Oh, okay, okay, okay.

So it was a pandemic indie. I see. And so we were like, I was like, but go ahead, you know, do what you ever do. And he goes, I like it. And I go, do you want to rehearse? Because a lot of them, you know, you rehearse a few times, but you practice with the other actors. Kind of learn your lines. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And you say it out loud. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're like, oh, that sounds normal. Right. He was like, no. And then he got like really quiet and I was just like staring at him. I was like, what an interesting guy. Yeah. His first take was so unthinkably good that I stopped acting and I just had the best seat in the theater. And I was like, oh, and it ended in my buddy Trent, the director was like, really great, JK. Hey, Jake, remember you're in the scene?

And he's like, remember we wanted a two shot? And he's like, you started in the scene and then you went like this for two minutes. And I was like, he's a very good actor. I was like, did you see him? He's like, yeah, at Video Village, we were all very happy. You're in it, asshole. So sometimes when people, when you get to see it, it's really fun. You're in it, asshole.

Yeah, yeah. So sometimes when people, when you get to see it, it's really fun. Yeah. I'm just a little bit over the talking about it as if it's really important for humanity's sake. Right, right. As opposed to like the way like actors kind of look down on magicians. Right, right. We're magicians. Yeah.

Where it's like if a magician was like, the way I make the card appear. Yeah, yeah. Well, this started when I was seven. You're like, homie, you're just doing a trick. And like, look, I like a magician too. Yeah. But if you played like a Civil War soldier, that doesn't make you closer to war. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It doesn't make a magician closer to God because he makes things disappear. No. Just a trick. I know, I know. And guess what? For that Civil War thing, like I know you studied Civil War, but, like, your voice is changing in interviews at Entertainment Weekly as if you were a Civil War fighter. And this is getting embarrassing for us, my guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And guess what? The makeup and the wardrobe helped. Yes. Because a lot of it, you were just going like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It looked right. You have a great TV, but like, cool it. I always love being around, and they would come on the Conan show, like the young, beautiful male actors that were like in the shows

that were about like MMA fighters or biker games. Bad boys. And they'd all sit around and they'd talk. Especially because we would have cast shows on. And they would talk to each other and you'd be like, Oh yeah, Johnny! Because we're bikers. And I always just felt like

yeah, but the whole time you were doing it you had on makeup. You were wearing makeup. When you were an MMA fighter, you had makeup on. well as the mma guy who trained you who would go like damn johnny you got those hands right right what's being paid it's exactly not allowed to hurt you back yes yes can't you tell my loves it's so weird it's also the really funny thing if you get like

a personal trainer when they're starting to build you up yeah and you're doing really basic stuff yeah yeah and the trainer you're paying for is going like those knees are getting up and you'll be like and you're like your knees aren't actually getting up. Like you have to, like you're holding the problem with acting in this business. And it happens to me whenever I'm doing press for a project. Everybody around you is making money off of you. Yeah. Yeah. So everybody's telling you, you see certain people where their whole worlds are staff.

Oh yeah. Where they're like, and you watch the change where you go like, you don't, it's the Elvis Presley thing. Everybody in your group, and you watch the change where you go like, you don't, it's the Elvis Presley thing. Everybody in your group, you're buying Cadillacs for. Right. So when you pull over and go, hold on, I'm going to move the clouds a little bit. Yeah. They can't say, my guy, you don't have the power to move a cloud.

You're just a geeky guy who sings. Yeah, yeah. They go like, everybody shut up, it's happening. Yeah. And you see that in our game a lot, where you go like, you might be a good person and you might have some, but like you're surrounded by people who you're supporting. And you know, it gets hard to really keep grounded so that all of a sudden when you sit down and you're doing that interview, well, everybody all day in that town car where you're driving from interview to interview is saying how important it is how great it is how much you're killing it how good

this is for people that all of a sudden you get caught in one interview that some asshole like me watches and goes like what a 19 year old prick yeah yeah yeah that's a tricky day man yeah it is it is and it's i have always felt when you are surrounded by people who are just buttering you up and telling you yes, it takes a very strong character to not go with that flow. And especially when as a mode of being and as like, as our, you know, training is to go with the flow. Totally. So when you're surrounded by people who say you're fantastic and hilarious and great and can do no wrong and oh no no that's not a problem if you want that that's okay happen for sure yeah and if you start to really believe that that's you get into like a bad place you know i'll tell you the other thing our business does that's annoying is they'll because i've been around young

actors who start having like weird demands yeah especially especially on press, where all of a sudden they'll be like, excuse me, where's my Sprite? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you'll go like, huh? And they'll go like, I specifically asked for a Sprite if I was going to do this podcast. And you go like, I hear you, man. You don't have a Sprite. Chill out. I know, I know.

But what'll happen is everybody will go get that person a Sprite. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then they'll apologize to that person. Then behind their back, everybody will kill him. But I'm like, but nobody's saying to that person, we don't have a Sprite, chill out. There's a diminishing return on that because the Sprite dick, eventually people will be like, you don't want to work with that. Yes, they kill him behind their back. Unless he becomes a gigantic thing.

Yes. He becomes, it's like, no. And I, you know, one of the joys of my career was that I got to, well, A, being a Christmas classic elf. Oh, yeah. And then, but the real joy of it was working with James Caan. And he was just, could not be any more the James Caan that you would want to be. And he was very meaningful to me. He was,

I, he was one of my favorite movie stars, et cetera, et cetera. But he told me once he goes, you know, he's like, and he was very like Frank and blunt about like his addiction issues and like,

you know, blowing his, you know, self-destructive career explosion you know but one thing he said he goes like he said even as fucked up as i was i never like i was never late i never caused a problem i'd show up to work and i do the work and he goes and everybody that i've ever that i've ever run across who does the i won't get to set first you know they have you know yeah like that i'll get to set after the other actor gets to set or my trailer's not good or like complaining about food and going into your trailer and throwing a fit he goes it's all fear he said without a doubt it was all people that were afraid they didn't have it and there is like such a

have it or don't have it jk simmons he has it you know because there's a million people that have you know arguably followed the same path as jk simmons but they don't you know yeah it's like you know and that's the way it gets weird with talking about process too because it's like michael jordan talking about flying like you don because it's like Michael Jordan talking about flying. Like, you don't want to know. A, he's not going to. He's going to be like, well, yeah, I'm a fish. I swim.

You know, that's one thing about Conan O'Brien is he's surrounded by people who tell him, shut up. No, you're not. You know, like, you know, and he's always kind of been that way i mean he's a monster in man in many many ways a nightmare um terroristic i would say at many points but he can't you know he can take it uh no no seriously and it's a very rare thing and it's why i think there's still an aura of happiness around him. And, you know, and now he's, you know, I have never seen him happier. He's doing podcasts.

He did, you know, a travel show for Max that's coming out, which is very funny that I've seen a lot about. And I don't need to plug him, but, you know, but I've never seen him happier. He's like really. And I'm worried about him because he really was a stress monster for a long time but he just he's enjoying himself because he's being himself he's he's keeping it honest keeping it real up in the field um and uh and i think that's a really important thing to do but i also think that part of this new podcast era that we were, you know, goofing on before what's really nice about it is because since I've started doing my podcast, it's harder

to take acting jobs because you know, the money's good. Yeah. It's really fun. It's better than podcasting for you. Isn't it though? What's that? The acting jobs. Yes. Yeah. Yeah yeah yeah i've already made money yeah so i'm not in a situation where i'm like i need money now and yeah this it's real money yeah so you're going like we're making

real money we're actually having fun yeah there's no outside bullshit right so even going to any of that process stuff any of the 12-hour days yeah any of the being in a hotel in Atlanta while you're shooting, being in something that all of a sudden you've got, and I know you know this feeling, but there's like a group of great actors, a great script, a great DP, and the director doesn't get the bit. And you're like, we're trying to do this whole thing, Or you're all on a team and the studio wants something else. Yeah. And I think the reason that so many people are doing this and finding so much joy is it is direct to audience. Yeah. You make something with our show. We experiment.

Yeah. We'll go like, what if it's, you know, when we first started having guests come on? Well, you know, like if you came on the show and you did it before this, well, I've been a fan for a long time. So I want to talk to you. So our show starts and it's a caller who calls in. So what I was doing is going like, hi, where are you from? They'll go like, Sarah from Michigan. And I'd go like, you've got Andy Richter.

Andy, so when you did Conan, they were spending 10 minutes. But the audience, we literally said like a choose your own adventure, email us your thoughts. And they would say like, we want to hear that stuff from the guest too. We're here for the calls. Yeah. So we were like, oh, you know what? There's no executive.

There's no meetings. There's no fight. Yeah. We're going to do the two calls and then we'll do like a 15 minute like fireside chat. Right. You can just make that change. Try it. Right.

And then go, you people listen to every episode. Our numbers are consistent. Do you like it yeah and when they write yes you go like that's it it's not any deeper yeah yeah i'm like that has been you know the movie self-reliance that i did that i wrote directed started did it was a year and a half at least of work it was a lot of hoops yeah and you're like i'm proud of it but the idea of like doing that again right away yeah while in the meantime i've done like 65 episodes of a podcast yeah i'm like when you say like conan's happy i'm like well no shit yeah it's a different galaxy yeah and if it goes back to like that improv show with my buddy it's like we, we're renting out a place. We're not at UCB.

Yeah. But there's an audience. Yeah. And you go like, so if I could do a two person show with my best friend in time square and it's packed. Yeah. Why would I ever go to McManus and try to like get on that stage? Right.

And that's where I'm kind of like, Oh, it's a new world. Yeah. And I don't know what the next five to 10 years will be, but I do know like there's a really world. Yeah. And I don't know what the next five to 10 years will be, but I do know there's a really interesting shift occurring. Right.

And as long as the audiences are there, I'm like, I've talked to other friends who do podcasts and they go on tour. Yeah. And they're like, you know, family people, they're not like touring musicians. Right, sure. They'll just pop in and do a city. Right, right. And they'll go like, not only is like the money great, because we'll rent out like theaters.

Yeah. It's so fun yeah you do like a friday saturday night two shows each night you fly home yeah you're with the audience yeah i've done this one live a couple times but it doesn't really play live it's not the idea of this podcast is to do it in front of an audience but yeah i'm trying i mean i've always been like i just gotta get something that i can do because it could be fun. Oh, absolutely. And that energy, you're like, oh yeah, that's a, like, I don't want to do a multicam. No, no. But I do miss an audience. Yeah.

I mean, audiences, I'm kind of like, I like them just fine, but I don't, you know. Well, you did it for so long. Yeah, I did it for so long. And like I've always said, you know, I was, when you were talking about, about like being surrounded by people that, you know, laugh at you were talking about about like being surrounded by people that you know laugh at everything you say and stuff and like i'm somewhere in the middle because it's like people that know me i gotta i'm like yeah now are you just being nice to me yeah and people that don't know me i feel like you know like you don't know me like you know like so it's like when you

laugh what am i i don't even know what you're laughing at you know you might you might be you know going like fatty fatty funny um but the thing that i'll the my the most rewarding laughs for me on conan for all those years were cameramen like when i could see a cameraman like you know laughing because they've seen all my shit you know and they don't they're union guys they don't need to butter me up at all and in fact some of them love to tear you down just for fun but that's the same on a show or a movie when you've got the operator laughing yeah but what i will say in terms of that because i i relate to you a lot of times when uh there will be a member of the crew there'll always be somebody who means something to you yes you know new girl it was casey hotchkiss our camera a i was like he was such a little prick uh and that when he would go like a lot

of times when if i was doing a monologue he would take the camera and go and he wouldn't be wrong it's like i am being born i don't remember these lines yeah and when i was hitting you could see the camera yeah but i will say what's nice about an audience is and i don't know if it's ego or what but there's a moment when you know you're in it. Yeah. And I'm not young. So there's moments where I know like I'm not in it, but everyone's saying I am. Right, right.

But it's really not good. And it's not because I'm insecure. It just wasn't that good. Yeah, yeah. Then there are other moments where you're like, oh, I found like a wave. Yeah. And when the audience is reacting to that as you're personally reacting to it, that does feel like magic to me still yeah yeah

where you're like like if you know if i'm with somebody a scene partner because i still really you know going back to the old chicago way the dell stuff that my brother and i studied but weren't in if my scene partner is really funny i do feel like i'm winning too oh yeah in like an actual like selfish way yeah you're building something we're winning here man yeah and so when that's happening and i'm like this is really funny yeah there's like the thing they're laying down is really good stuff and then you feel that same boil from the audience yeah that like the thing i don't like about a multicam and what i don't love about talk shows is there is the guy pumping them up so sometimes oh yeah i'll get a laugh when I'll sit. I'll think like my little like priest story.

I'll be like, I think the laugh's here. And then they'll go like, da-da-da, and I'll go, well, then my mother, da-da, and everyone will laugh. And I'll go, that's not the laugh. And now, because I'm such a little whore, I'm now chasing it. So before you know it, I've like faced out, and I'm literally going like, anybody here from? I'm like, now I'm garbage.

I'm just a garbage person but there is a moment where you feel like and i'll feel with the podcast at times when the caller it's less with gareth because we've known each other for so long so our old bits together are so recycled and we're so mean to each other via text and on the show that we always have to cut out our mean stuff to each other just abuse for yeah yeah we're literally it'll start and one of us will go like that was unnecessary that was yes three minutes of meanness and you'll go and i love you yeah yeah sorry sorry i don't know why i just tore you apart genuinely i got

problems but it's when something happens with the caller yeah and i'll go like oh she's funny yeah and then i'll react to her differently than i thought and i'll see gareth kind of perk up then he'll say something and there'll be that moment right where i'm like i know the audience is gonna like it but they're not here yeah so then the feedback is nice but i'm like that would be fun yeah if they were also right here yeah yeah it's funny to hear you say like because just looking at your career and and you know the research that someone else did on you because i can't be bothered yeah yeah um because i'm always i have this insecurity about about when i see somebody like you who's we're from fairly similar backgrounds yeah um came up

sort of the same way and then you're like self-producing and self and directing movies and like that's something that in my mind i've always been like ah that'd be fun i bet i could do that and then i don't yeah and i haven't right and i just i'm wondering what because there's other people like you similar probably you know lots of people that you know i can't imagine that of your peers of your colleagues that come from the same place that they've all self-funded directed you know a bunch of movies and i'm wondering what is it about that like what about you do you think is you know creates that fire well i you, the real answer is when you said this show doesn't work in front of the audience, the non comedic one is when I was in high school, my aunt,

uh, uh, was going through some mental problems and came and lived with our house when she had cancer and she died in our home. And my mother and I were her nurses. And so I walked her into death and we became friends and I could, my chore at 15 was like, take her for walks and be like, what does this feel like? What is that? And I didn't believe, even though my mother was clear and she was clear, I didn't really get that we die. And when she died, I mean, comedically, it was shocking. I mean, if you saw her, she weighed like 80 pounds, was riddled with cancer. Anybody knew she was dying. But when she actually died and then people came and they took her body out of our living room and I was watching it and I thought like,

oh, this ends. So everything that I have, it's, I know it's not forever. Right. And so my pursuit in this game was, I really want to see if I can be on TV. Yeah. You know, going back to my mom and my brother saying like, I think you could do it, man. Yeah. And being like, I wonder if I could be on Cheers. Yeah. I wonder if I could be like one of the kids on Roseanne.

Yeah. Then you see Second City in Chicago. Yeah. Then you see people pop, you being one of those guys where I'm like, I know Andy was here and he was also at like the Old Town Ale House.

It becomes approachable, yeah. And we're at the Old Town Ale House. Yeah, achievable, yeah. And then you see the way like you would do bits and I'm like, that's how we do bits. Yeah.

And so then you start and for me, you know, I did the whole grind. I wasn't getting paid until I was 28, but then you do like commercials and then I had to take classes to figure out how I was 28, but then you do like commercials.

And then I had to take classes to figure out how to act on camera. Then you do like co-stars and guest stars, then a bit in a movie. Then all of a sudden I was on a sitcom and I was like, whoa. And then while I was on a sitcom, I was watching the directors and watching. And I thought like, I wonder if I could do it. Then I met Joe Swanberg and he was doing indies and he wanted me to do drinking buddies. And when that ended, he said, uh, you know, it's going to kill you is the people who finance this movie are going to make all the money. And we did all the work. Yeah. And I said like, yeah, I guess so. Yeah. And then he said, if we do another one, we should try to finance it and

put it together. Yeah. And I thought like, I know i don't have forever right you're my partner now so i was like man i don't know how to i didn't go to film school for this i wasn't interested i didn't care i'm not a technical guy with directing yeah but i was like but i'm gonna just latch on to you and so then joe i got obsessed with him we made three movies together figured out how to do that then i made one with trent with with J.K. Simmons to see like, can I do it without Joe? Yeah. Then after that, I was like, now I want to try to direct one with like a budget. Self-reliance. Yeah, yeah.

Now I really want to do TV. Yeah. I want to see if I can make a sitcom that just doesn't feel like a weird little indie, just feels like a sitcom. Yeah. But can I write it, direct it, cast the whole thing? Because I'm like, there's going to be a moment sooner rather than later when this ride is over. This is the dream.

Yeah, yeah. I can't believe it's happening. Yeah, yeah. I can't believe I'm sitting here with you. Yeah. So I'm like, oh, fun. We'll take it easy, but you know. But that feeling for me is very real.

Yeah. And I'm very aware on a regular basis that it's not forever. Yeah. And so while here, I'm not sitting around waiting for an agent to call with a part. Yeah. I also have kids, so I'm not going on location. Right. So if it's here, I can't wait for the right part that I could do it the way I want while auditioning. Yeah. So that's when it started like, I got to do it now and I got to do it this way. Right. I i mean it's

it's cool that you're like you know like oh there's a new hurdle yes do you ever worry about running out of hurdles and that you're not like finding the place to just live or is it is are you living the game are you living on this on this journey well what i'm trying to do is also my work's just not good enough yet. So you'll do something, and I'll go like, all right, I did that. Like, my movie, I like it.

It's not good enough. I don't land the third act the way I should. The premise is really fun. It starts to turn, but it didn't land quite right. Yeah. And so I do care about audiences. So then I'm starting to think with this one,

well, what can I do differently? With the Joe movies in our past, what I loved about them was, I loved that they were small, emotional character driven, didn't have enough of a story engine. So then I wanted to try a story engine. And so part of it is while I'm doing these hurdles, I'm trying to get, I'm trying to have something that I do that I can feel like I nailed that. And I haven't quite, I haven't done that where i go like well that was really good for this but i knew i was weak here and the so my pursuit is a selfish pursuit it's i'm doing it for the fun of the game you know i'm trying to get better at this specific thing for me

so that i can go like okay good job yeah yeah well done fat boy you're done okay big nose take it easy is there a concrete goal like do you have you know it's just it's a process it's a process it's i part of it for me would be i want to be on a really happy set like the always sunny guys they were filming that when we were doing new girl and modern family was on the same lot. And they weren't doing 14 hour days. Yeah. They were shooting cross covered. So I asked her on how they shoot to figure out like. On Sunny or on Modern Family?

Both of them. Okay. Both of them shoot way faster. Yeah. And it looks good. Yeah. And so I was like, so I want to figure out, I needed to figure out like how to shoot. And that's where Trent O'Donnell came in. Cause he does a show called No Activity, which he's a master of production so it's part of it

it's quality of life it's material it's how the set feels it's how the whole thing feels for an audience yeah uh and money yeah and how lucrative is that thing because for my dad when we got very close uh he my mother was like the wild gypsy my father was a a car guy he sold cars yeah so the business was all the way there so i'm trying to put it all together so selfishly i can have a moment right where i go like artistically i loved it process i loved it financially it's a massive win audience is really happy finally i fucking did something yeah have the movies that you've made made you money or did they just sort of sustain them you know like while you're doing them it's

a living it's all been lucrative oh wow well because the joe ones we sell finance so we make money as the financiers wow so you're making money on first dollar gross so we made you know we're making a movie for 700 000 We're selling it for 3.5. Wow. So there's a lot of money. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then apart from this, so then, you know, with each one there for me, it isn't a hobby. Yeah.

So when our business becomes a hobby, I feel embarrassed. Yeah. Yeah. It like to go away from the kids. Yeah. Like I could never, I never understand. Well, the podcast, do you, you i mean is that still is that a job thing like do you feel as serious about that as you do about making them oh wow absolutely because i don't oh you don't no i mean yeah yeah i mean well hey it's i mean i have other like

andy daly and i are putting together a podcast that we want to do together that has more prep i mean this this i you know like i look at your stuff and i kind of you know i study a little bit but we're talking it's mostly it's a conversation you know and i mean and over time i've i've learned how to do this how to sort of like keep the ball in the air for an hour you know um but yeah but it's not this is not the same for me interesting if i got a part in a movie so it is for me yeah really that's great well but for movie. So it is for me. Yeah. Really? That's great.

Well, but for years I was trying to find one that the reason I took this one with Gareth and this was his idea, not mine. Yeah. Was because you could make a thousand episodes. Yeah. I was like, I was watching the show catfish with my kids. I have daughters. So I want them to see how crazy the internet is.

I'm just, I do a lot of like this. That's crazy. Can you believe that? Don i do a lot of like this that's crazy can you believe that don't do that oh that was an old man i had no idea that was coming be scared be scared but the beauty of that show is you go like if you like one you're gonna like 200 yeah and so my thought on this game of it like we didn't want to partner with anybody i didn't want a min guarantee i didn't want a studio i'm very involved with like our ad sales. Yeah. I like doing that. I like, I like talking to the ad people on it. I'm interested in like, if they say like, your spots didn't perform doing this way. Right. I'm curious why they think they didn't. And then I'm willing to try it. And then I like to tap in with the audience

and go like, well, what'd you think of that? Like for a while, my buddy Gareth created this like old radio character called Gil Buchanan that was killing us. Yeah. Like old Gillybean, you know, like the old radio guy who lives in like Jake's outhouse. Yeah. Like that selfish cunt Jake Johnson won't share a dime. Let me tell you about rocket money. And my whole thing would be like, you got to speed it up, Gil. And then he'd be like, oh, why? Because I'm drinking. And we would crack up then i created jerry began and his brother we had alice and we were like oh we cracked it yeah but then we started finding

people were listening to the ads but they weren't putting the promo code in ah so you could say one reaction is like who cares right but i'm like but we're doing this game for this yeah so then i was like all right let's experiment. Right. So like what, you know, like I like playing chess a lot. I'm doing jujitsu. And what I like about those is there's a way to play these games. Yeah.

There's a way to get better. So then they said like, what if you tried starting the ads with Jake's voice? You can go to Gil, but don't start with Gil. I see. So when we experiment with that they said like the companies are happy oh wow i'm like what a wild thing yeah if the viewer goes here's this episode was brought to you by rocket money gilly what do you think of rocket money well let me tell you jake then they're like okay if it's just gill they like it the same but they're not

listening yeah whatever that stuff is I like in terms of movies. Like, I don't like just being an actor on a set. Yeah. I like to know what's the whole game plan. I don't like when a studio PR people call me and they go like, okay, are you available to go to New York? I'm like, well, what's the plan? Who are we selling to? Yeah, yeah.

If you want me to sell your vacuum, how are we selling it? Right, right. But when I'm allowed in, I find it really fun. Right, right. Although the people who live there, when you're saying like, what's the point?

Like, I don't know. Well, that's... You go to New York and you talk to people and then you go home and then we all feel like we did something. And then it doesn't change

the numbers at all. But we really appreciate it because this movie was owned by the same company that owns all those shows. Yeah, yeah. And you go like, I don't need to do those shows again. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But whatever that whole dance of it is, that is just as exciting to me as the creative. Oh, wow. So like, but I do feel like they're two different hats. Oh, absolutely. And when it's the creative hat, like I love that part. Yeah.

And then I realized there are people who don't like the business stuff, who I'm partners with. So I'm like, we don't have to talk about it. There's other people in this machine that I could then talk to about the business stuff. Yeah. And you and I could just talk about the stories. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And you're like, great, whatever. I'll meet you where you are. Yeah. See, that's me. I don't. You don't like don't like it i don't well i can't understand it like you know when there's things you know like i mean you remember when we a while ago there was like an issue with the packaging and the agents and we all fired our writing agents because the writers guild said you have to fire your they were owning were owning the shows. Yeah. That was explained to me four times, like what the stakes of that were.

And it was explained to me in a way where I was like, all right, I understand. Ten minutes later, I'm like, I don't remember how it works or what the problem is. All I know is agents are like... Bad now, I guess. Getting too much money. Studios too much money. Studios too much money.

Me not enough money. All I know is they're telling me to be mad and I'm mad. And when they tell me I'm happy, I'm happy. Yes, yes. I fire my writing agent. What? I hire him back? Okay.

Hello, friend. We are back together. Yeah, no, I'm terrible with that. I'm terrible with that i'm terrible well i'm sure i love it i'm starting to do stuff where because a lot of the terminology is really confusing yeah uh but the the the concepts aren't yeah so i'm doing now like i like to have meetings with the business affairs people rather than the agents who explain the business affairs because these guys are so geeky with it right that they'll be like and they're so happy to talk to you yes but they'll go like well i mean if you got the rbmc

and i go like guys remember who you're talking to yeah yeah and so i'll go like oh that that just means interest and i'll go remember who you're talking to and they'll be like money adding up and i'm like gotcha and then when you break it down into simple terms yeah you see like the distribution of funds yeah and you go like well that seems weird yeah if we are making the vacuum building the vacuum selling the vacuum yeah there's a lot of things being paid before we get paid for the back for the actual vacuum and that is where i'm like oh this new world is challenging a lot of that yeah because they're seeing people coming out here and doing podcasts and making not only real money but having huge audience yeah you know

for my movie for example when they wanted me to go do like certain press this was the first time i was able to say like no but i'm not being disrespectful i'll have the cast on my podcast yeah and i'll do podcasts yeah and the numbers for the movie were better than a project i've done in a while because of podcasts yeah so then when i would say like not to be disrespectful but why would i go do that show yeah that I get why you guys want me to? Right, right. You own that show. Yeah. So you want to fill five minutes of me sitting on a couch going like to an audience of daytime TV who don't like me. Yeah.

Me going like, well, it's a funny story. Just be self-deprecating so these women don't hate me. Yeah, yeah. And don't say anything that's like too weird. And then it finishes. And you go, that felt awful. Yeah. None of them are

gonna not only like my movie or my podcast or me but they got commercials before and after that break yeah but i'm like ow like this was the first time i did a podcast called uh dope as usual it's two guys near uh home depot they were smoking so much weed in there that i'm like i'm thrown yeah and i thought for a second I might be in the wrong spot. And one guy goes, hey man, I really liked your movie. Can I tell you what I thought about it? He pitched it perfectly. Oh, wow.

And I was like, hey man, you get the movie. And I thought like more than Michael Strahan would. Sure. Because Strahan wouldn't have watched the movie. So I would be pitching him and then he would go, while at the timing he would go that sounds like a wild adventure yeah yeah what a wild ride yeah that sounds like and that sounds like a lot of fun jake johnson self-reliance on hulu which you're ready at enjoy it yeah coming up next the guatemalan miners who have been trapped underground and then i and then i have to go like this like oh sad story yeah just because a commercial break i don't want to be laughing after he's right right right

and i was like oh so this whole new world to me is it's like really geeking me out yeah yeah i you know i was on a talk show for a million no well i i can't i mean i just it's not yeah yeah and i mean and i was on a talk show for a million years and I never felt like that it was a guarantee. You know, somebody comes on, you know, you know, you know, you know, Emma Stone comes on and she's got it. And it's like, I don't believe that this is that this is like, oh, this her being on here put 4,000 butts in seats. To her, no. Yeah. I just don't think, I don't know if there's any way to qualify.

I do feel like the entirety of a PR campaign creates awareness by just carpet bombing with like, you know, the name of the movie, you know, is Dogtown, Dogtown, you know, okay. Like, you know, the name of the movie, you know, is Dogtown, Dogtown, you know, okay. But generally, I never, and I mean, when people would, like, I remember one time, Jake Gyllenhaal, who's a sweet guy, was on the show. And we were talking about something, and then he had to go. So I was, like, kind of walking him to the curtain and he just, before he finished what he was saying, then he went and then he said like, hey, was that okay? Which, hey, Jesus Christ, Jake Gyllenhaal. Honey. He said, was that okay? Do you think that was good? And I said, oh, Jake, none of it matters. Andy, I've heard. None of it matters. So this is a famous story.

Oh, is it? Yes. And it's really funny hearing you say it because I think it was Mike Sarah who told me that. Oh, really? So everybody has so much anxiety doing talk shows. Yeah, yeah. It's a nightmare. Yeah.

Especially as like, you've seen it. Yeah. You know everybody there. You know you're not a stand-up but you have seven minutes it feels terrible and also lots of the people are used to having they don't say their own words on camera they say someone else's words it's a different beast yes and i i think it was mike but i could be wrong but i remember when i was first starting mike told me that story from you i it was i don't think Jake Gyllenhaal. Oh, wow. But it was that same idea that goes, is that okay?

And the story goes, Andy Rickbear said, it doesn't matter. Nobody cares. And no one will remember it. And then there was some version of the bit where you even said, like, I won't even remember it tomorrow. Yeah. I mean, and I don't mean that. No, it was freeing. Yeah.

I mean, it is like. Nobody remembers. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's like, you know, it was freeing. Yeah. I mean, it is like. Nobody remembers. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's like, you know, did you, you know, what were your table manners at that dinner you had last night? Who cares? You know, it's all gone. It's all. And I also mean that in terms of if you want your performance to be the best.

Yes. It can't matter. Right. Like, I don't know if everybody that's interesting that's the way that i work is like if i don't feel and that's why it's really hard for me on sets when the director's not fun right and i mean and even if it's kind of i've done a few dramatic things but it's like it's got to be fun or else like there's no there's no you know bubbles in the soda pop but what do you mean when you said the

thing of if you the want to be the best thing the performance because obviously we all have that thing the reason you ask and the reason i ask is you want to be a really good guest and you want to leave and have every all the producers everyone go like we were happy he was our second yes yes so what were you saying there that that when you, what was the point that that doesn't matter? Because, because if you're, if you're results oriented, you will be in your head. Yeah. Basically that's, it's a matter of being in your head and it's a matter of, especially in a talk show. And I've said this before, the, the, the greatest guarantee of an audience enjoying the talk show is if the people that are participating in it are enjoying themselves yeah totally and i always would try and make that like my pursuit of fun in that hour

because you're not watching you're not watching a play yeah you're not watching it you know you're not watching the documentary you're just watching you're eavesdropping on fun people you're watching yeah you're eavesdropping on fun people hanging out and so if they're worried about oh shit how do i seem yeah i was just playing you know that's not fun at a party it's not fun it's not fun you know and i mean and it was like of all the things and it was it was a very fun job but there is some level of like if you start to pick it apart and apart or there's some level of kind of bullshit to it. And also for me too, just doing the same thing over and over is hard. Yes. And I mean, and I still try and no matter what I do, I try to fight for.

I mean, even like, you know, I've hosted game shows and i have to push back and be like hey this has got to be fun like if you're going to be cranky and bitchy get out of here go away totally yeah yeah so that goes back to like this this dream thing that i'm trying to create it's when somebody comes on our set and our crew everybody's in that because you know going back to like live shows and improv days there were certain vibes where you'd get on stage you'd be like this team is fun yeah then there were certain teams that the audience likes but you're like this team isn't fun yeah backstage it's a bunch of fucking egotistical animals yeah and the audience doesn't know the difference. Yeah. But you do. Yeah. And I feel like it's got to be all things at this point.

Yes. Or it makes a lot less sense. Yeah. Back in the day when there was four channels. Yeah. How you feel doesn't matter. Just get on those four channels. Right. There are so many outlets now that you're like, if you can't find an outlet now, you're just not meant to play this game.

Back in the day, you're like, politics got in my way. Now you're like, you don't have it at all. It might not be a huge audience, but you can find a way to do something in this game now. There are so many goddamn seats at the table. And so if you're going to be be doing it you better be liking it yeah do you think that's the you know do you think that's the main thing that you've learned through all this do you i mean is there one kind of one kind of you know guiding star for you that you that you kind of remind yourself of yeah it's uh people first yeah so it's who you sign up to

i had a uh a producer on a movie. I was having kind of a lame time with the director. Yeah. And I was younger in my career, and I didn't understand that that could happen. Yeah. And I said to this producer, he's like, this guy sucks. It is what it is. We just deal with it.

And I go, I know, but I didn't get the read of it before I took the job. Right, right. So I'm now all turned around because how is this not going to happen every time? And he said, so there's an old thing that somebody had told. He was an older guy. He goes, when I was started, they said, think of the director as like an essence or a vibe. Close your eyes and imagine that person as like a feeling, like a party. If they were a party, can you live in that party for two months?

If the answer is no, don't take the job. And that is something I think about a lot. Yeah. Because there'll be like actors, if you're casting something, I'm like, who's like the female lead opposite me? Right. Even if you don't know them, if you watch them on like press, where you'll be like, I don't know her.

I know she's good. I know everybody likes her. Yeah. Then you watch press and you're like, I don't know him, if you watch him on like press, where you'll be like, I don't know her. I know she's good. I know everybody likes her. Then you watch press and you're like, that scares me a little bit. And other people you go like, it'd be great to have dinner with her. She seems the best. And you're like, whatever that is, that's who I try to build around of like, I would be happy at a 7am call to be in the hair and makeup trailer with that person and have their bits start in the day and makeup trailer with that person yeah and have their bits starting the day yeah and then you're like and then at four when you all say goodbye yeah being like we're back at it tomorrow yeah and then whatever that like the whole rhythm of the show because that happens off camera yeah you build the rhythm of the show in between yeah and

then it sneaks in i whenever i see people being shitty i'm'm like, hey, dummy, do you have long-term plans? Well, this game doesn't last forever. There will be a moment you're on top. And you can be killing the game. And because you're so valuable in this moment, you can have a three-year run. It's hard to have a 30-year run. Yeah. And it's applicable in any work you know you get got

to be around people you like yeah i mean it's it's easy to say that to somebody that you know is an actuary you know and is working in an office but but in our but ours is when you say like the thing i learned is it's two things for me i need to like the people and i need to going back to that thing with the audience, I need to think the work is good. Yeah. Because I've taken, I've tried jobs where I thought like, I'm going to take this acting job and not care about the creative to help my attitude.

Yeah. Because if I care about the creative and it goes sideways, then I become like, you know, Nick Cage in Moonstruck and I'm going to bite my arm off. Yeah. And nobody wants to be around that. They didn't pay for that. They didn't ask for that. So then for a while I thought, well, I'll be in stuff

where I don't even care about the creative. I like the people. I want to be here. Yeah. That created like a, just kind of like an overall depression. Oh. So I'm like, so I have to think what we're doing is really good. Yeah.

And be able to try really hard. Yeah. But I also have to do it with really cool people yeah and i also think the process has to be a process that like you know doesn't burn out your you know your pas for god's sake right but those kids are working 18 hours a day and then you go like what how are you driving home and they go like it's fine i have to be back in six hours i might just sleep sleep in my Nissan. And you go like, the fuck are we,

we're literally making a 20 minute show. Yeah. Yeah. What are we? And then you go, how much are you making? And they're like, well,

with that like weird dollar Friday thing, you're like, what are we doing? So like every, the whole thing has to be a vibe where you go like, great gig. Yeah. This is fun. Yeah.

Well, you have the burden of having a holistic uh understanding of things it's it really it's a it's cumbersome for you you know if you were more just a self-involved shallow prick you wouldn't have all these all these needs but now with all my needs it's, Andy. Just a lot of talk on podcasts and a lot of failed projects. Yes. Well, Jake, thank you so much. We have been talking for a good long time. And it's because it was fun and good. And thank you so much.

Thank you. And I hope to be on your podcast very soon. I would love it. Yeah, yeah. I'm booking myself. So, yeah. Okay, good. Yeah. And I. Yeah, yeah. I'm booking myself, so yeah. Okay, good. Yeah.

And I got a lot of problems I want you guys to figure out. I think he took the show the wrong way. We're here to help them, not we're here to help. Guys, I have a loan application I need you to co-sign. And thank you guys so much for listening to the show. All right. Well, thanks, Jake, and thank all of you out there for listening, and I'll be back next week.

The Three Questions with Andy Richter is a Team Coco production. It is produced by Sean Doherty and engineered by Rich Garcia. Additional engineering support by Eduardo Perez and Joanna Samuel. Executive produced by Nick Liao, Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, with assistance from Maddy Ogden. Research by Alyssa Grahl. Don't forget to rate and review and subscribe to The Three Questions with Andy Richter wherever you get your podcasts. And do you have a favorite question you always like to ask people? Let us know in the review section. Can't you tell my love's a-growing? Can't you feel it ain't a-showing? Oh, you must be a-knowing I've got a big, big love This has been a Team Coco production.