The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Jake Tapper

Episode Date: October 25, 2022

Jake Tapper (CNN) joins Andy Richter to discuss Jake’s comedy bonafides, the current state of the Republican Party, campaign posters, film school, and more!

Hey everybody, I'm talking to Jake Tapper today, an old pal that I used to see all the time. I mean, he used to come around all the time. Actually, it was weird how much he used to come around. He used to come around all the time. Actually, it was weird how much he used to come around. Well, I mean, I'm not saying that Conan and I had an inappropriate relationship and the show was an excuse for us to meet. But that had, you know, if somebody were to accuse me of that, I don't know what I'd say. If you can do it, it's natural. That's my feeling.

As they said in the 60s, if it feels good, do it. Do it. That was actually a motto. I know. I know. I know. People actually a motto. I know. I know. People actually said that. I know. I know. I was just listening the other day to the song,

if you can't be with the one you love, honey, love the one you're with. And I think Stephen Stills wrote that. And even like he years later repudiated. He's like, no, that's actually not such a great. It's really bad advice. It's a super great system to run your life by. Really bad. Yeah.

There's a girl sitting next to you and she's, I mean, what? I know, I know. It's like, listen, here we are. It's really, honestly, that song is about who is closest to you right now physically. Yes. The whole song is just about like, hey, you know, come on. You might, you know, you got someone in your heart, but come on. Come on.

You know, that was the whole motto. This love thing is overrated. Come on. Let's go. It's overrated. Yeah. Well, now you are at CNN, right? You're getting ready.

This is my office. I even see like a suit and tie on a hanger behind you. You want to know why this? So we did a pre-tape with the Australian prime minister Friday and it's going to, and it's going to air not, uh, it's going to air next Sunday. So this is the suit. This is your son Sunday clothes that you got it. This is well, this is just so it matches.

Right. That's what I mean. That's what I mean. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then this is, this is a giant Al Smith for president poster. And I And I and I someday you'll come to DC. I'll give you a tour. But my entire office is the posters of losing presidential candidates. That's it. That's that's the theme. Nice. I have like a Nixon from 1960. I have a Reagan from 68, a Reagan from 76. I have a couple Hillarys. I have a Trump, Trump-Pence 2020, but then some really good old ones too, like John Fremont, the first Republican presidential. Yeah, my grandfather was a Republican political operative. He was the chairman of the Republican Party

in Kendall County, Illinois for 29 years, I believe. political op you know operative he was the chairman of the republican party in kendall county illinois for 29 years i believe and he was the director of conservation for the state of illinois under governor william stratton so we had a whole attic full of memorabilia like you know like a photo of my grandpa um you know and when he was a delegate to uh elect ike and that's incredible yeah and do you still have that stuff i have i i know i i i've parted ways a lot of because most of it was nixon shit which i'm just like like i don't know i just don't i can't have that much of a sense of humor about nixon and there was but there was one great one that i used to have and i honestly i think i gave it to my brother that was like uh and it wasn't a losing i think it was great one that I used to have, and I honestly, I think I gave it to my brother, that was like, and it wasn't a losing.

I think it was the one that he won, and it was like his second election, because it was this kind of groovy, trying to hip up Nixon. And it was all the people that supported him. And I think like Wilt Chamberlain was one of them. Like all these like character, you you know like drawn faces of like and it was just like nixon's the one like yeah like that's hilarious yeah yeah so did your grandpa was was he the kind of guy that uh would would spend a lot of time talking about how uh those kennedys stole illinois in 1960 he would no not that so much he He would talk about that. I mean, he mostly was just like that Eisenhower business kind of stuff, you know, like that kind of old school Republican. I mean, you know, the racism was of the mild, but it was there for sure.

You know, rural Illinois. Sure. But it was mostly just low taxes business and it also I just think also too it's just like it was just the old white guy thing and the notion of government handouts and thinking that Eleanor the thing I used to hear is that Eleanor Roosevelt ruined the country because because she got everybody all riled up. Oh, that Eleanor. Yeah. And got everybody kind of involved in in the notion of a welfare state.

Like that was the sort of thing. So my my grandparents, my dad's parents passed when I was young. They were from Chicago. My my mom's parents live longer and they lived in North Carolina. So my connection to politics was basically hearing them complain about Jesse Helms. Yeah. And, and, uh, because they, they were, they were of the university of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, they were academics. Um, and, uh, but just, just, they just, they just watched Jesse Helms race baiting for decades and decades and just couldn't believe it worked. So did you grow up in a fairly liberal household then? I

mean, you grew up in Philly, which is, which a pretty much a democrat town yeah uh i grew up in philly i mean there was a machine there right like similar to chicago yeah i was born in 1969 so my parents were very much motivated by the uh anti-vietnam war movement uh and the civil rights movement but i but it wasn't a democratic council because like as you know the the democratic machine was very powerful so like for instance uh as you know i do a little cartooning and you know when i was when i was little the very first political cartoon i ever did there was a may the mayor of philadelphia frank Rizzo, notorious racist Democrat, super corrupt, super corrupt, racist Democrat, was a police chief first, et cetera. And the first political cartoon I did was just a drawing of a man's face.

And it said, bad Rizzo, bad Rizzo, bad Rizzo, which was the message that I got as a three year old in the in the Tapper household. So it wasn't about, it wasn't about, uh, uh, Republicans are bad. It was about Frank Rizzo is bad and the democratic machine is bad and they're bad for, you know, the black community. They're, they're bad for, for union households. They're bad, you know, that sort of thing. Yeah. I was not, I mean, I grew up around politics, you know, I mean, you know, going to election nights at somebody's headquarters at an empty spot in the strip mall kind of thing. Oh, wow. You did that?

Oh, yeah, yeah. Because my grandmother would go to those things. And what it mainly did, and I did not pay attention. I didn't pay attention to the politics of it until I was in college. Like, it all just was kind of like okay yeah that's how everybody votes and everything and that's you know and republican okay yeah that's and i but i didn't really process any of it i wasn't thinking about it i wasn't thinking about the world uh you know and until i got to be in in college but one thing that it did teach me from my exposure to it and

and fundraisers thrown in our backyard and stuff like that but it was all through my grandmother because my grandmother was sort of the engine behind all of it because my grandfather was kind of just he just wanted to play cards in his insurance office with his pals yeah no no golf but fish and hunt and and play cards and drink you know drink sneak drinks during the day but i have to say i i had a big um influence on my desire to know more about politics uh was comedy was uh mad magazine and wanting wanting to understand what they were talking about their references were. Yeah. And because they did a ton of politics, a ton and mad and and SNL both. And I was watching SNL as soon as I found out about it.

I mean, like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I would sneak down and watch it on the black and white in the living room. And for the kids listening, there's a TV used to be in black and white in the living room and um for the kids listening there's a tvs used to be in black and white and and and i remember i mean i remember very vividly a skit in 1980 on snl where they were making where i think bill murray played ted kennedy it was it was the premise of the skit was and i haven't seen it since although i should probably go look for it on youtube but the premise of the skit was like every presidential candidate in 1980 was had moved into this one family's house in new hampshire and they were just like all of them were trying to do it yeah and and like and one of this and like ted kennedy came in and he had just like obviously

they made an allusion to chap aquitic uh ted uh bill murray was like covered in water or something like that anyway and so it's just like a desire to understand what this obviously hilarious sketch was about yeah yeah yeah i can see that i that's um there were for me a lot of that was i mean not so much politics but just like historical things from looney tunes cartoons like what they were made you know like world war ii like my first understanding world World War II was all Bugs Bunny cartoons. And like, you know, who is Tojo? You know, and all this stuff.

And like really hideously racist ones. Racist, anti-Japanese stuff. And they would put that stuff on. I would see it as a kid on regular TV. Totally. I would see it as a kid on regular TV. But the thing that I mainly took from my exposure as a child to politics was, this is so boring. And I think that that's...

My younger brother ran for Congress after Trump was elected because he just was energized in anger. And he's a civics teacher, a civics high school teacher. anger and he's a civics teacher and a civics high school teacher and he took a group of students to what was going to be hillary clinton's inauguration and they still had made all the plans and they went to trump's inauguration and they were you know like students crying because it was just yeah it was dark such a dark angry sort of atmosphere. American carnage. Yeah. American carnage. As George W. Bush said, that was some weird shit. Yeah. And then the next day was the Women's March, which they just felt, you know, it was just, you know, grinding the gears from one extreme to the other of just feeling excited and how many more people were there and the energy. And it energized my brother to think, I'm going to, you know,

he maybe should have started with like the state house, but he went right for Congress. Well, Trump started with the White House. I know, I know, I know. From Illinois? Yeah, from Illinois. The one that Lauren. Oh, the nurse.

Yeah, Lauren, I can't remember her last name, but she's a fantastic candidate. Underwood. Underwood, exactly. Yeah, she's great. She's fantastic, and he actually really liked her a lot and kind of knew in the going, like, okay, she's going to win. So he lost to the primary, but how did he do? He actually came in among the, like, he was, I think, fourth, and the top three were all Democrat, like, like tried and true, you know, candidates. One guy had run for Congress a few times and one was a mayor of a local city,

you know, like a neighboring city. So he did pretty well, you know, I mean, I did lots of fundraising for him, but even he, you know, he found out that job is just asking for money and it doesn't and especially if you're in the house you're at you're every two years you're running so you're just always on the phone asking for money and then even the actual legislating to me seems like pta meetings you know like for every sexy televised hearing, there's a zillion closed door hearings about tariffs and stuff like that. It's a real I mean, if you want it to be, it is a real job where you can have a huge impact on people's lives. Yeah. But there are a lot of members of Congress who want it to be like, this is how I'm going to get on TV And this is how I'm going to go on Twitter and troll people. And sadly, that is, it seems an increasingly higher percentage of the members of Congress, but you're absolutely right about the fundraising. Yeah. Which is why, by the way,

if anybody I know ever that I ever come in contact with, like is going to run for Congress, I say, well, just run in a safe seat because then you don't have to stress as much about the fundraising or the, you can spend a little bit more time on the legislating. And given the fact that they gerrymander so much now that they're only like, I don't even know, 50 seats that are even competitive anymore, you know, run in a safer seat if you can, just because given the givens, but yeah, no, they spend at least like a third to a half of their time asking people for money. It's horrible way to live. Horrible. And it also too, I mean, you know, you always think about like, what's the, I mean, from just different jobs that I've had, like, what's the charge you get from it? Like, what's the, what's

the payout that you get? And, you know, unlike for a lot of people in show business, it's the roar, you know, like it's the approval of a crowd and stuff. You know, I've directed television commercials and there's the fun thing about beat the clock you know trying to get all these things done and with politics there is like yeah you get to have an effect but it just much it must be such a muted effect you know and in so many ways i think that the good that that can be done that people just don't see or don't know about is huge i mean there are a number of you know about is huge. I mean, there are a number of, you know, one of the things, I mean, everybody should work in Congress at some point, just like be a staffer right out of college. If you don't have anything to do, move to Washington,

find your party, find your member of Congress, be an intern for six months, just see how it works. But there's the tremendous amount of what they do is constituent service, which means tracking down checks helping to connect people with their government all that stuff the city the city set my garage on fire yeah but all that stuff which can have a huge huge impact people don't know how to do that people don't know people feel so disconnected from their government they don't even know how to and by the way the government doesn't make it any easier. Right. But like, you know, somebody will say to me, I don't, you know, they're making, you know, like a store owner will be like, they, they're not letting me put up signs

outs on my own property. So people know my store is here. And I'm like, you gotta, you gotta reach out to your congressman, your congressman or your governor, your city councilman, your whatever you're just because they're there for you. And if you put pressure on them, they'll do something about it. But the disconnect is so strong. Now, you started out in kind of the PR side of politics and kind of working in politics for messaging. But I guess it would be partisan messaging because it was on behalf of candidates. Kind of because this is what happened. So I went.

So after college, I graduated from college in 91. I didn't know what I wanted to do. All my friends were applying to law school. So I applied to film school just because, you know i i didn't know what i wanted to do i had i wanted to be a cartoonist i wanted to have a comic strip i you know it was 91 so there was like a lot you know there was um i guess it wasn't it was like the soderbergh era of like you couldn't like with a hundred thousand dollars and a camera you could make an independent movie kind of thing so um so i i did i went to usc but you wanted but

i mean did you think you're gonna end up being a filmmaker or you're you still just yeah it's kind of like that area you know that area screenwriter i mean i didn't the truth i was 22 i had no idea what i wanted to do this was some direction that would like stave off me having to like go wait tables or you know or whatever or whatever. Anyway, I did that for a semester. I hated it. I came back East and a member of a friend of our family was running for Congress. That's what happened. Like a guy, the local, my parents are divorced. My mom still lives in Philly. My dad lives in the suburbs and a friend of his forever that he'd known for decades was running for Congress congress this woman

and so the reason i say kind of on the partisan stuff is because she was a democrat but she was running in a republican district so is really about you know selling her as a moderate selling her as a as somebody who was going to be a compromiser problem solver that's not too much of a demo right in a lot of ways yeah we're trying to appeal to republicans right i mean you know she couldn't win just with the democratic vote she needed to win with rohulikin but again this i was um i was literally 23 at this point so i mean this is a long time ago but then i did that for like she won and i did that for like a year and change and then i did just like regular public relations while i tried to figure out what i wanted to do

and then i stumbled into journalism by doing freelance writing and then i was off and running uh just on a side note what didn't you like about film school you said you hated it well first of all i i had to pay for it my dad wasn't paying for it as opposed to college yeah i would hate that too so i had to do that second of all i was living uh at adams and hoover, which was kind of bleak. This is before the L.A. riots. I felt very alone out there. I didn't have like a group, a support network, whatever. My class was a lot of people who were much older, who were like I was 22.

So they were, you know, in their thirties and forties and, um, you know, who were like trying to like do a life course, correct. Right. Right. And I, I also just didn't find, it just wasn't for me at film school. It just wasn't for me. It wasn't also like, it wasn't, it's so hard to explain this to kids today, but like it was, it was pre iPhone. It was pre digital. So like I was filming like on an eight millimeter camera thing and uh it was the technology was crap and i don't know i just remember sitting in film production class listening to the clarence thomas hearings on my yellow sony walkman thinking maybe i'm really more interested in politics than i am in film yeah yeah now what what why did you steer clear of say partisan politics why did you decide to go and kind of

more you know in this sort of era this this sort of area of neutrality that you know i'm not i yeah i'm not really uh i'm not particularly partisan uh i'm just not. I'm just, I ideologically, I have opinions on things, but I'm pretty ambivalent about a lot of policy stuff. And I just, I don't think that either party has the answers to things. It's tough to say these things now with the, you know, with so many people in the Republican party embracing actual like lies about the election. Right, right, right. It's not, you know, obviously I'm, Idemocracy. So and pro like people's votes should count and, you know, pro facts and truth and not. But as a general note, like I don't have an opinion on tariff policy or tax policy or or, you know, a lot of other things. And and I just as a journalist, I'm much more interested in asking questions than deciding what the answer should be. much more interested in asking questions than deciding what the answer should be. What do you think it was about you? I mean, because have you always been that interested?

And what was it about you as a young person that felt so connected to political issues? Well, I just always found politics fascinating. And it's more just like the fact that I'm a history buff that I found politics fascinating because it's just like the first draft. But yeah, no, when I was in college, I would like go to the periodical section of the library because again, this is before the internet. And, and I would read the nation and I would read the National Review. And I would, you know, I would just read anything I could I just to, to get the perspective of anyone, anyone smart, I would read William F. Buckley, I would read, you know, I remember in taking a history class at Dartmouth and talking to some of the students who were conservatives, and they were upset that they thought that the professor was too liberal, and wouldn't give them

a good grade if they actually wrote what they wanted. And just like that, you know, I just was always this open minded about this sort of politics politics i mean i obviously i think you know racism's bad demagoguery is bad that sort of thing but but as a general note i i don't think of one party is having all the answers and you know that's just my general view right although nowadays it's well like i said it's pretty striking it's pretty striking and it's you know it's more than just i think the the that the election's a lie. Like, it's seems to be like there's this like i always remember this notion of nixon's silent majority i mean in looking back on it i you know because i mean i heard about it at you know when i was a kid and i've heard about it but it always just

kind of seemed like oh you know there's all this social progress and, you know, and, and civil rights progress for women and, and, and gays and, and people of color and, and that's all good. And the silent majority seemed to be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, maybe it's not so good. And that that was kind of what that, like, that was, it seemed to be permission to say all this modernity and all this progress. permission to say all this modernity and all this progress i disagree with it i mean one of the things about nixon was uh what his his uh law and order you know what did he mean when he talked about law and yeah what does anyone ever mean when they talk about law and order right and also remember i mean this is during an era where you you know, cities were burning. Yeah. And that sort of thing. But no, I hear you.

I saw Matt Gaetz's comments. Did you see he said something negative about Mike Pence? Yeah. At the same speech. Did you see Aaron Burnett? Yeah. Mike Pence's former chief of staff. Did you see what he said?

Yeah, yeah. Saying like he probably won't be voting next. I'm surprised that florida law enforcement let him speak to a room full of teenagers yes yes that's some pretty good stuff mark short uh the chief of staff that's i mean for the i mean the pence team is pretty yeah buttoned up oh they sure are yeah when he said that i was like what yeah like that was that was savage that was a savage comment um no there seems to be a fair amount of enough is enough from from you know quote unquote good republicans uh which you know good good okay you know move on from that guy i guess but just don't move on to another one like him. You know, I don't know. It's,

it's, it's just, it's complicated because now, now, and this is, like I say, I grew up in a Republican household, in a Republican enclave. And then, and then, and I mean, and I will say too, that like of my grandfather's children, none of them are Republicans. They're all liberal now. You know, I mean, the ones that are still alive are liberal. They were liberal. Nobody stayed really Republican. A couple of people in the family are still Republican, but it's coupled with religiosity also so that those two are a powerful combo.

Nixon was really the first one, though, I I think to really unleash on the news media, Nixon, Nixon and Spiro Agnew who referred to us as nattering nabobs of negative negativism. Yeah. But I mean, the anti-media stuff, the anti-journalism stuff has been,

I mean, every politician hates journalists because we expose them or cover them or nitpick or whatever, but, but it really nixon and then um and then it kind of i don't remember reagan doing it so much but um because he kind of just had this view like we don't we don't care we're just we're going over you right right um there's a great story about uh leslie stall when she was in the white house

press corps doing a story that was devastating uh about reagan and then one of reagan's aides said that we didn't they didn't care because the images in her piece were so beautiful of reagan because of the way the stagecraft sure sure george hw bush i remember him doing it uh annoy the press vote for bush like holding up a bumper sticker. But there's this, but there really is this thing now where this trend in the Republican Party of being so anti-media that you're not even criticizing individual stories or individual publications or channels. You're just any, what they call legacy media,

anything we're not participating in, we're not gonna, I mean, and it's just, that is kind of, I am kind of worried about that for, I don't know who's going to, you know, what's going to happen in 2024 for the, for the Republican nomination. But it does feel like there's a whole group that just will not engage, that doesn't want, that only wants to, that wants to avoid the news media. It wants to avoid us entirely even if we are fair and neutral and try to you know bend over backwards to provide all sides and perspectives again not including pro-democracy anti-democracy where you know we have to be pro-democracy but

um it does it does concern me in terms of like because you just said talking about like you don't want to just move on to the next version of what we had yeah well like i said the thing that's hard for me is that if i see a republican yard sign an election yard sign that's republican now it means something different now it means something different because there's been so much just outward vocal support of very ugly anti-democratic anti-progress things that to say you know it's like saying like you know charlie manson had some good ideas you know like it's like a dune buggy army that would be fun and it's like yeah but you're missing out on the murder part you know and it's kind of to charlotte to charles manson yeah he was yeah that was he was gonna have it he was gonna enlist black people in a dune buggy army and he was gonna lead them into the race war yeah yeah you say that about about republicans but but let me but let me drill

down because so on state of the union uh sunday i interviewed liz cheney if you saw a cheney re-elect cheney, you wouldn't think that. Well, I mean, yeah, no, now, now, but it's kind of like, but she's also said some really terrible, you know, like some really awful things about abortion and, you know, like spread lies about abortion and things like that. So it's kind of like there's some useful bacteria now, you know, but it sounds like you, you follow Don Winslow useful bacteria now you know but it sounds like you uh you you follow don winslow on twitter that's what it sounds like to me uh yes well i mean i i he's it's impossible i don't follow him i think i just am constantly seeing his videos retweeted into my into my timeline yeah but no but i mean but she's also I also am familiar with her with her past.

And she has always been pretty paleo conservative. She's very conservative. I'm not talking about that, but I'm just trying to challenge your premise that if you see a Republican election sign, it means all the same thing. And I'm saying, but it doesn't necessarily mean that for Liz Cheney right now. I know today. But I would challenge Liz Cheney to say, why are you still a Republican? Because she's very conservative, as you just know. I know. I know. But but when you're fighting, when you're brand, you know, like when your brand turns rancid, why do you continue to be with that brand? There are independents in Congress. You're referring to

the Republican Party is rancid. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. yes yes absolutely and i mean there are only two independents in congress right bernie sanders and and angus and i guess king but i mean there's got to be some in the house isn't there any in the house no there used to be yeah there aren't any more i don't think there are i might be wrong yeah it would just be real it would be hard for me to be, I'm a small government, low taxes kind of guy, but I'm still with this party that's actively endorsing the lying about the election, you know, that's denigrating the process of showing that the election was won fair and square and that these people were trying to overthrow a democratic election majority of the of the people elected they went from january 6th and then voted to not certify the election that's a problem yeah i hear what you're saying yeah i guess i guess the argument

would be and you really should have liz cheney on this podcast. But but I guess the argument would be that they still believe in a strong military and conservative social values and small government and low taxes and fewer lower regulations, et cetera. And they're fighting for the Republican Party. So the other person I had on. So did the union. I understand. Was Larry Hogan, who's the very successful two term governor of Maryland, and he might run for president. Harry Hogan, who's the very successful two term governor of Maryland, and he might run for president. And, you know, that's what he would argue. Right. He's he's fighting. He's fighting for this party. Yeah. Liz Cheney would say that Adam Kinzinger from your home state of Illinois would say that Mitt Romney would say that. Now, there are also a bunch of people who did not vote to, you know, to not count the electoral votes from Pennsylvania and Arizona, vote to, you know, to not count the electoral votes from Pennsylvania and Arizona, which is what you were just referring to, who maybe aren't as outspoken as the people I just mentioned. And they say, we're still fighting it too. We're just fighting it more quietly because we don't,

because if you fight it loudly, you get, you get picked off. And like, you know, Kinzinger was redistricted out of his seat. Cheney is a very tough reelection fight in the primary, et cetera. And then there are a bunch of people that went along to get along and still like maybe privately they think although i don't i'm i don't know this but like maybe privately some of them think that was a mess uh i'd really like to put that in the rear view and just go move forward so it was a fever that we that the that our party became ill with a fever and we're waiting for it to pass. There are people who voted, uh, who, who signed remember that crazy Texas attorney general lawsuit for the Supreme court. Like don't count the votes from these five or six States that voted for Biden. And there are members of Congress who

signed their names to that. But when push came to shove on January 6th, did not vote to not count the electoral vote. So maybe So maybe that's an example of what you're talking about, like a fever, like they got caught up in it and they thought, oh, wait, this is getting out of control. There are people who, the senators from Tennessee, both very, very conservative Republican, both very, very pro-Trump Republicans, said they were going to vote to not count the electoral votes on January 6th, but ultimately after January 6th, after the attack and the death and all that, did not vote that way. So maybe it is something that is fungible and evolving and organic.

We had this conversation on my show last week because there is this race for governor in Arizona. And the two main candidates are, is just a full on election denial. Cuckoo. Yeah. Yeah. And a former television journalist. She is. And the governor of Arizona, Doug Ducey, says it's all just an act. She's just like, this is all phony. She's this is none. It's just to get elected. Right. But but I don't know her, but that's what Ducey says. In any case, it's all she is full on in. Right. But but I don't know her, but that's what Ducey says. In any case, it's all she is full on it. Yeah. And then you have kind of like the lie adjacent candidate who is endorsed by Ducey and Pence and the establishment, who's the kind of person who says, well big debate on our show last week and casey hunt who's one of our anchors she was basically trying to explain like there is an argument to make that

you have to i don't think she was putting this forward as her opinion but like there is an opinion out there a school of you have to give space for because so many people in the republican party base right now believe this lie you have to give space again because so many people in the Republican Party base right now believe this lie. You have to give space again. And this is just a theory. This is not mine. It's not Casey's whatever. You have to give space for some of these like lie adjacent individuals to win so they can start to steer the party back towards normalcy. Now, I don't know that I buy that entirely or at all, but I'm just saying like there is kind of like a it's like the kinsey scale you know yes if human sexuality is not yes all one or the other it's like there's an evolution of the lie yes and you know and uh while you and i are pure sevens no lies and like some people are pure ones

right maybe a lot of people in the republican party are like you know in that hazy diff yeah definitely the first time anyone has compared the Big Lie to the Kinsey scale. Put that down. Mark that down. Mark that down, A.B. He's writing a memo right now. Right, right, right. Here we go.

Head of communications. Hold the presses. Speaking of the Kinsey scale, I met that amazing actress who was in the HBO version of that. Lizzie Kaplan. She's, have you ever met her? She's so cool. Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, she was on the show a of that. Lizzie Kaplan. Have you ever met her? She's so cool. Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, she was on the show a few times.

Yeah, she's great. She's also, have you ever seen Party Down? Yes. Yeah, she's fantastic in that. Although she's, I don't think she's in season three. I don't think she is either. I think she's the only non-returning one. Too big for a britches, probably.

I think there was something about like trying to film that. And this other Fleischman is in trouble. So, but party down is great. An underrated show. Yeah. I think it's on Hulu. Yeah.

And it's fantastic. And Adam Scott, the leading man of my heart. What can I say? Can't you tell my loves are grown now now you enjoy comedy and stuff do you ever like you know do you ever think about hanging it up and like going you know not just half showbiz the way the tv journalism is but i mean full-on showbiz no although um uh i'm not funny the way that you are what conan is no you know what i am no you know what i am i'm like the the dog that can stand on its hind legs and walk and people like oh look at that but if you compare it to like other hind walking creatures you're

like that's not really actually that good but you're like i'm a tv anchor who knows a little about comedy and can like talk to you guys without you know right sounding sounding like a a mannequin but yeah um but no but i do i wrote these two novels and i am trying to get them turned into a streaming show and not with me writing it but but uh and that might happen and then but just as a cash cow you don't have to really do anything for i really think it it'd be good. It's not even about the money, although. Come on. I'll take the money. You can use some more posters of losing candidates. Well, there are a lot more. They're probably pricey. Yeah, there are. Some of them are. Yeah, I have one. I have one here of Strom Thurmond as a states right.

Democrat that I've covered with you know the posters of Shirley Chisholm and everything just because to reflect that I do not support Trump but that was expensive that was an expensive one you learn which ones are like really like it turns out some of these characters William Jennings

Browning like you know it's a dime a dozen it ran three times. Oh, yeah, sure, whatever. It ran three. Whatever. He used the nominee three times. Yeah.

They kept putting him up. They kept putting him up. Adlai Stevenson, that's not right. Well, baseball was so young in those days that they didn't really understand that concept of three strikes. Anyway, they have, let me see if I can adjust the camera. They have it so, so you see that? That's Alton Parker, 1904.

Yeah. It's a kerchief. Oh, yeah. Very strange. They used to do this at the turn of the century. Like, everybody had kerchiefs instead of posters. I have here. I'm going to show you.

See up there on the wall? Yeah. Len Small, Good Roads Governor, Kendall County Boosters for Route 47. That's on a cotton. That's on a piece of cotton fabric and yeah that was the first that my uh grandfather uh managed that guy's campaign his his campaign for governor did he win uh he did he did nice yeah yeah that's yeah i'm familiar with the cloth banner like paper was not i don't know why i mean just traveled better maybe and you could i don't know it's yeah yeah it's from the end of the 19th century to the very beginning of the 20th and then they

stopped it then they stopped the the kerchief the kerchief banners i have one i wish i could show you this one i'll send you a picture of it it's a horace greely uh the go west young man uh-huh sure oh seriously no that's uh what is he a sucker's born every minute? No, it's P.T. Barnum. Horace Greeley is a great- Go West, yeah. Go West young man. And he has a neck beard. He shaved his face, but he let all his neck hair grow. It's a good look.

It's a good look. If you can pull it off. Horace pulls it off. All right, you can bring, but you can ask me about politics. All right, all right. No, no, no. I mean, no, I just, it was, you know, I like when someone practices their art. And that was very artful of you to.

The changing of the subject? Yeah, yeah. The shift into something. Usually, the version of it that I see on here is flattery. If I'm talking, I can't remember who it was. Somebody did it like so obviously. If I'm talking, I can't remember who it was. Somebody did it like so obviously.

They went from talking about something they didn't want to talk to into just flat out blowing smoke up my ass. By the way, and I've already told you this, but you know how big a fan I was of Andy Richter's Saves the Universe. Controls the Universe. Controls the Universe. It was my title, and it's always, that is what tells me it was a terrible title because nobody ever gets it right. It's my fault, not your fault. I said Saves, and it's Controls title because nobody ever gets it right it's my

fault not your fault i said saves and it's yeah yeah it's controls that's the one with the puppy suit yes yes the puppy coat yeah that just that just had it's like 20th anniversary of its of its premiere a few months ago which is kind of crazy thank you yeah no i i i i love doing that show and i um andy barker pi was another it was the one that uh conan created and jonathan groff wrote that was that was actually my favorite i love that and i you know i love i you know people tell me oh they were before their time they should have been on and you know maybe they were but i mean but also you know what are you gonna do what are you gonna to do? What are you going to do? I remember interviewing Albert Brooks for a profile I did of him back when I was at ABC for Nightline.

It was right when Drive came out and he was the villain in Drive and he was fantastic. Anyway, I, you know, like I'm sure you were. I've been an Albert Brooks fan since the 1970s. And I said to him, I asked him about that about being ahead of his time and he he he clearly uh has been asked about it before and he says he's like it's nice i guess but there's no special line for you at the bank no if you're ahead of your time yeah like it was basically like it doesn't get me anything yeah yeah he told conan once at a party when conan was uh conan was expressing agita about career stuff and and albert brooks told him it was like at a christmas party he just told oh none of it matters he's just that's his thing yeah none of it matters and i i am on board

i i mean he said it and i said it but i because that's one thing that when people would fret post conan interview and would say to me how was that was it i would say it doesn't matter it doesn't i mean even on like the the granular the granular level of does it put butts into seats eh who knows you know did you have a good time did you you know did you do you feel good walking out of here? Then it worked. Then it was good. But in terms of like, for it really mattering it in terms of whether it puts food on anybody's plate or whether any right, you know, anything wrong is righted. No, it doesn't matter.

It's just time that you spent, you know? So I don't know that I fully agree with it, but I mean, it is funny. I think, I think what you guys do is funny and important and matters. But I mean, I definitely think that journalism matters, which is obviously a different field. But I have the same attitude in a way. I remember one time somebody asking me what my legacy was going to be as a journalist. And I said, journalists don't have legacies. We don't. I mean, if we're lucky, one of us is remembered per decade. Yeah. Murrow. Right. Cronkite. Right. Right. Kids today have no idea who Peter Jennings was. They don't. They have no idea. He was like my hero at ABC, but they don't know. So all you can do is do the best version of the facts available today, taking a stand for, you know, things that are for decency and accuracy and then and questioning authority and then hope and then go home to your family and your wife and your kids. And, you know, I mean, but I mean, the none of it matters thing. That's that's classic Brooks. He's going to put that on his grave.

thing that's that's classic brooks he's gonna put that on his grave i bet well his point to conan was look at clark gable biggest thing in the world for how many years clark gable who gives a shit now like who's saying clark gable's name what kids know about clark gable and i mean i can't there's like you know there's adult comedy writer types that, you know, like they don't know. Pick somebody. You're like, they don't they don't know the band or the band Rush, you know, like like from, you know, they just you don't know. It's all just and it gets worse and worse. We're just the disposability of culture and things, which just all it means to me is just be nice to your family. It just, you know, it just means like, it's, you can't worry about any of that. So all

you got to do is like, look at the personal and make the personal as, as, as good as you can. That's absolutely a hundred percent. And one of the things that I always am shocked by when I go on social media and I see how many people are just determined to be the worst possible version of themselves on social media. And I'm like, you have an opportunity on social media to be the best possible version of yourself. Like you not give, you know, try to see people's points of view, hold your tongue, learn, grow, you know, whatever. And not just social media, then as yourself in general, you have the opportunity once you're like over 40 and you have some perspective and you've either gotten to where you want to go or you kind of realize that you're not going to like, you know, just being a good person, a good dad, a good husband, a good, you know, boss,

a good employee. That's really all that matters. That does matter. Absolutely. I think with social media, one of the things that the reason social matter. Absolutely. I think with social media, one of the things that the reason social media or one of the reasons that social media is the way it is and the tone that it takes is because it's very young social media. And this, the, the dialogue is either geared towards young people or controlled by young people. And, and there, it's a lot more cool to say everything sucks than you know not everything sucks you know it's also the algorithm yeah yeah you get you get rewarded for negativity you get reward but i think because it's playing to young people when i think about myself in my 20s

everything sucked fuck this you know the fuck the man this is all bullshit i'm gonna do it all different uh you know like i'm not gonna compromise and then you get old and you realize oh no it's either you just you compromise is just that's just part and parcel of of not being an asshole throughout your entire life what artists what successful artist has never compromised? I don't, I mean, probably we haven't heard, we haven't heard of them, you know? Right. I mean, like what, what, I don't know one, I can't think of one. No, if you're, if you're a communicator and especially if you're supposedly part of a representative democracy, what your principles are, are secondary to reflecting the people that put you in office

i think you know i mean yeah well i think that's a i think that's a balancing act i do think that but you'll see you'll see people i can't kristin gillibrand used to be like a lot more pro-gun when she was uh she represented this one yeah yeah this one congressional district that was more that was rural and had a lot of gun owners when she when her scope broadened she became less pro-gun you know if you want to be a purist yeah that's that sucks or whatever but it also like that's part of the job that's part of the job if you're you know if you you know if you represent a a district that has a lot of people in the military you have to look at military funding issues differently than if you were in an area that didn't have people that lived in the military sure that's

just and that you oh that's a compromise yeah but it's also like it's also living in a society to quote the Joker. It's it's it's being a sensitive person who's doing the job that you're elected to do. Who is your favorite Joker? Oh, God, I don't give a shit about any of that stuff. I really know. You realize, of course, I know two different actors who have played the Joker have won the best actor. I know Academy Award. Like, it's not a nothing question. I have played the Joker have won the Best Actor Academy Award. Like, it's not a nothing question.

I know, I know. But I just don't care. You're not a comic book fan? I used to go to Comic-Con every year. Yeah, but I mean, for work, you know. So you don't care about any of that stuff? I see almost all the big Marvel movies. The Batman movies, I don't really care that much about. all the big Marvel movies.

The Batman movies, I don't really care that much about. This whole brooding, it's all very serious and it's all very You're a Marvel guy. I'm not even like one or the other. As a kid, I was a DC guy. As a kid, I was more into DC because Marvel seemed

impenetrable. There's just like two DC was very easy. It was all the science fiction i found marvel is all very like uh very science fictiony and with the exception of uh of green lantern dc was really just on this yeah and it was just yeah and it was the you know the justice league and you know and i liked the flash and they were just sort of more simple stories. Because I'm a simpleton, basically. But no, but like the Batman, the self-serious stuff, I just, that's why like probably one of my favorite ones is Thor Ragnarok. Because it's a lot of fun.

And it takes all that superhero shit seriously, but not too seriously. It has enough, just like the right touch of sense of humor the new one has a little too much the new thor has a little too much i haven't seen it yet i haven't seen it it's like i'm still i'm still catching up it plays to her laughs too much and that that always happens to things when they sort of subvert the genre and play for laughs a little bit i always feel like okay that's a little bit's good but don't do it too much you know man you're like you're you're really the goldilocks of a superhero movie i'm a dick i'm a you don't want it when it comes to hot exactly too hot nope too cold right

just right god damn it yeah exactly boy that's rough no i'm still catching up because like you know on disney plus that they have you know they have the vertical words like are the horizontal rather where it shows you all the movies in or in chronological order, not of not the chronology that we live in, but the chronology of the Marvel Universe. Yeah, yeah. So in any case, I'm still like I i start i i started watching the new thor and then i realized wait i still i haven't caught so like i started back because there were a whole bunch of spider-man that i hadn't seen anyway yeah that's there's too many spider-mans i gave up on spider-mans they're just too much there's too many spider-mans for me you're really just an old grump i am i am a little bit and i also i will say i resent the ubiquity of superhero culture

and that it has damaged film i think that it has it has crushed delicate flowers of you know like all the all your favorite sort of 70s independent art absolutely films it's hard to imagine even even little miss sunshine being made today yes yes it's just it's all those between 10 million and 100 million dollar movies are no longer made and everything now has to be intellectual property it has to be about something like you like i was just saying you could write incredible new story about you know the high seas with characters and plot and all this stuff and it would have less of a chance of selling than cap and crunch the movie because no i know i would see that see what i see but we're all we've all been infected by it and now here's my question would cap and crunch be trying to get to the bottom of count chocula frankenberry and whatever do you remember there

was a wolf i forgot what the wolf was oh yeah yeah yeah i forget that you know well but we're we're i we're boo berry we're all the ghost ones and we're in captain crunch's universe i don't know i'm saying i'm asking i'm trying to i'm trying to some but somewhere somebody is watching this yeah yeah and writing it down. See, Captain Crunch, to me, he would just be, he'd be a colonizer. He'd be trying to push sweet, crunchy stuff onto local indigenous people. And he would learn his lesson. And he would become an anti-colonialist by the end of the movie.

But all the natives would have to admit, like, all this sweet, crunchy stuff is really good. Because, oh, and I know what it is. Because he finds the place where crunch berries grow. And that's where the colonialism really, they take over the place where crunch berries grow. But he ends up becoming a freedom fighter at the end. I mean, like, you know, I don't know why you're not writing this down. Because I'm lazy. I'm very, very lazy.

And I know, by the way know and i know who would be a great cap and crunch i know who would be a great cap and crunch zach galifianakis well listen i gotta i gotta let you go pretty quick here so we should we should move on to the to the well go ahead what were you gonna say i was gonna say zach afron but anyway keep going no zach galifianakis oh listen once you do the screen test, yeah, Efron's prettier, but you will want Galifianakis as your Cap'n Crunch. He's good. So where are you going? I mean, you've got the novels that you've written, I mean, and you're kind of looking towards those.

I'm still writing. I'm happy right now. I'm really, honestly, deliriously happy. I love my job. I love my family. I love i'm able to to write novels and people publish them and i'm able to like have occasional conversations with folks like you that who make me laugh and i i'm i'm here i'm i'm not yeah i mean i'll keep

i'll keep doing this until they make me stop and then i'll teach journalism somewhere or keep writing novels or whatever but i mean i i'm I'm not headed anywhere. I thrive. So where so within the context of your job at CNN, there's no making it bigger or doing more. There's just keep doing the same. Yeah, I really like it. I love I love the people I work with. I love people who work for me. I work for I mean, I love our management. I mean, I really, honestly, it's not smoke. I really, I'm very, I'm very content. That's as much success as one can hope for is not the- I think knowing it, I think realizing while you're in it, instead of, you know, I was a young man in a hurry for a long, long, long time until I was no longer young,

but I was still in a hurry. But now I'm really in a good place. I mean, I worry about normal things and I worry about democracy. I really do. I mean, I worry about normal things and I worry about democracy. I really do. I really do worry about the United States and our ability to get past this idea of whether or not elections are, I mean, just the fundamental principles, but that's really outside of my immediate life and my immediate life. I'm very happy. Okay. Well then the last of these three questions is what have you learned? What, what, what can you wisdom can you impart to my listeners to podcasting dumb kindness is when you're in your twenties, kindness is, is underrated. You don't, you don't appreciate it. You don't understand it.

You might think it's weak. You might think you don't have the time for it. But kindness is underrated. You don't, you don't appreciate it. You don't understand it. You might think it's weak. You might think you don't have the time for it. But kindness is everything. Kindness is everything. And when you're in a position where you can be kind, you should, you should do it as much as possible. I look back at times in my life when I was not, the times in my life that I regret the most are not things I messed up or, or mistakes I made, or even, you know, car accidents I was in or whatever. The times I regret the most are times when I wasn't kind. So that's just, you know, it's something I say to my kids. I got a 12 year old and a 14 year old and just be nice to that kid. You don't know what that kid's going through. Yeah. You know, his or her parents just got divorced or it's probably it's not easy being somebody at school who people think is annoying.

Like, just try to be nice. Just try to be nice. Yeah. That's it. That's my it's not particularly original or wise, but that's the most important lesson I've learned. It's it's a good one. It's a good one because it doesn't cost you anything, really. Usually. I mean, you don't want to get walked on. So it's, you know,

yeah, that's a different thing, but yeah, but no, but you, and also too, the things always amazes me is people that just are concerned with output, like that they just want stuff from people. You'll get a lot more output if you're nice to them than if a hundred percent you know so like even if you're crass and all your your motivations are ugly be nice it just makes it better you know yeah and you feel better about it too andy i i uh i'm looking for the cap and crunch movie starring andy richter with zach albano it's more and a special appearance by Zach Efron. Yeah. Thank you, Jake. And thank all of you out there for listening. And I'll be back next

week with more Three Questions. Bye. The Three Questions with Andy Richter is a Team Coco production. It is produced by Sean Doherty and engineered by Rob Schulte. Additional engineering support by Eduardo Perez and Joanna Samuel. Executive produced by Joanna Solitaroff, Adam Sachs, and Thank you. wherever you get your podcasts.

This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf.