The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Tatiana Maslany

Episode Date: January 14, 2020

Actress Tatiana Maslany joins Andy Richter to discuss starting her acting career at an early age, the importance of music and movement in her work, and shifting to Broadway after the success of Orphan Black. Plus, Tatiana shares what she's learned about becoming okay with the ‘total unknown’.

Hello, listeners. You have tuned in once again, lucky you, to the Three Questions with Andy Richter. And today, it's not just me, it's Tatiana Maslany. Hello. Hi there. How are you? Thank you so much for being here for us and with us. I know you're not feeling very well.

Hey, you too. What are your symptoms? We got a runny nose. Runny nose, yeah, yeah, yeah. We got a throat thing. Right, right. We got general kind of malaise. Yeah.

I get that, but that's because of the weed and Coke. Hey. Yeah. I get that, right? I wish it was that. I wish I could say I was coked to hell right now. Oh, my God. Cocaine was never my friend.

I did it maybe three or four times in my life and was always like, why do people do this? It doesn't, from an outsider's perspective, it doesn't seem fun. No. It seems stressful. It seems to turn on the asshole aspects of you. And then I will tell you the surprise to me from doing it and doing it a few times, the worst hangover. Oh, really? And it wasn't like I was like binging, just, you know, dabbling and woke up the next morning feeling like a truck had burst out of me, not it hit me. You're saying from your, wait, from where? No, I mean, I just felt like every cell in my body had been tapped on with a hammer.

It was just awful, awful, awful hangover. Why do it? I don't know. Guys, this is a PSA for don't do cocaine. Don't do cocaine. I mean, yeah, it'll hurt your health and shorten your life, but also it's a lousy hangover. It's not great. Yeah.

Next day, no fun. I really do think that there should be things like that about anti-drug campaigns, like the sort of- The like- Yeah, yeah. The aft, as opposed to like, these are the effects of it when you're doing it, blah. But like- Right, right, right.

You feel like crap the next day. Like, you know, like alcohol could be like, you will have sex with people you don't want to have sex with. Right. And you won't know that until the next morning. Right. So that's something to be aware of going in, kids. Shaking your finger at all the kids having sex with people they don't want.

Come on. Come on, guys. Do you want to feel regret over something as lovely as sex? Then drink it up, kids. All right. Well, you, you are one of those loveliest of people, a Canadian. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And you're from Winnipeg? Saskatchewan. Saskatch people, a Canadian. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

And you're from Winnipeg? Yeah. Saskatchewan. Saskatchewan. Regina. Yeah, Regina. Yeah. And I was so ready to remember to say Regina instead of Regina.

And then you went Winnipeg. And then I went Winnipeg because I forgot. It's a total different city. I know, I know. I know. But what is Regina like? I've never been. It's western-ish.

It's like right in the center. Yeah. What is Regina like? I've never been. It's western-ish. It's like right in the center. Yeah. And it's sort of a town that people pass through to get to Winnipeg or Calgary.

Right. You sort of drive through it. And what is it known? I mean, why does it exist? There was a guy for, there was a sign once that was like, Dick Ass Man, Regina's Own Dick Ass, whatever, home of Dick Ass Man. There was a guy named Dick Ass Man. So that was what we were known for for a time when I was a kid. But who was Dick Ass Man?

No clue. I think he just had that name and we're like. He wasn't like a Ford dealer or something? He was a John Deere tractor maker. Jesus Christ, that would be an awesome. Dick Ass Man Ford. Yeah. Yeah, welcome to Dick Ass Man Ford. I. Yeah. Welcome to Dick Assman Ford.

I mean, you want to do something with that name. Right. Exactly. But I don't know what his deal was. I'm sure it was just a regular Joe. Right. Right. But we took him and we made him into something big.

Tourist attraction. A real tourist attraction. We're known for wheat. Yeah. We're known for the Rough Riders. Oh, yeah. Saskatchewan Rough Riders. Oh, yeah. Saskatchewan Rough Riders. Sure, sure.

You know? Yeah, I do know. Really? They're like cowboy cops kind of, aren't they? Are you thinking like the Mounties? No, the Rough Riders. They're a football team. Oh, a football team.

Well, no. No, I'm totally being – I'm showing my ass here. You're a dick-ass man. No, I am – yeah, yeah. I'm a dick-ass man. No, yeah, the football team. That makes sense now. But I also think Rough Riders as, you know, Teddy Roosevelt's Rough Riders.

And I thought maybe they were – I don't know. Wait, so you thought they were cowboy – Like cowboy cops. I love that. Like some sort of like Texas Rangers. For some reason that popped into my mind. That's so cool. Because the Mounties aren't really like that.

They're sort of more prim and proper. Oh, they're so demure. Was there any kind of like Texas Marshal-y kind of frontier cops in Canada? Or were they all in red wool? They're all in red wool. With a pistol tied to a string. Yeah. Yeah.

Just like a little, with a little ball that comes out of the gun. That's right. And then you stick it back in. Yeah. Yeah. No, the Mounties had like a, had a school. Yeah. Had like their fortress, I want to say, in Regina.

Yeah. So my mom taught the Mounties French for a time. Oh, wow. So she had, and then I had a friend whose dad was a gunsman

with the Mounties or something. I don't know. I don't know much about them. Going back to Rough Riders, isn't there another professional football team in Canada

called the Rough Riders? Yes, I think Ottawa, I think. There's two? Maybe I made that up. No, but I remember hearing that, that like...

It's kind of a disaster. That's a, Maybe I made that up. No, but I remember hearing that. It's kind of a disaster. That's a black mark on Canada's creativity. Totally. That to me like having two Steelers, the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Kansas City Steelers. And there's like 30 million people in the country. Yeah. So like, what are you guys doing? I don't know.

Maybe they meant something different. That's why I left. Maybe this. They're not creating it up with their team names. It was irritating. Yeah. So, you mentioned it. Your mom is a teacher of language, yes?

She was a teacher for a time, but she is a translator. Oh, okay. So, she works in French and a whole bunch. She was a teacher for a time, but she is a translator. Oh, okay. So she works in French and a whole bunch. She's also just a linguist. And I heard, too, you spoke German as a kid. I did. You spoke German. Now, why is that?

I think just because my mom was interested in exposing us to language. I went to a Catholic school, too, so I could do French immersion. And she wanted to expose you to the most chilling of all languages. Yeah, the darkest, most humorless of languages. Really, nothing better for a little kid than like 18-syllable words that mean on we about blankets. They are so specific with their words. This is about the feeling of getting a fever from a soup that has oxtail in it.

Der Furtengaisenglorbendischen. There's a word Backpfeifengesicht, which means a face that begs to be slapped. Which is so German. That's a pretty sweet one. It's so fucking German. We are German. So watch what you say.

I'm German. What do you think Richter is? Richter. Richter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where from? I don't know. You know, they're all, they have all, all the Germans have been here for so long that they don't even know as far as I know.

They barely associate it. And in fact, because my fam, like my mom's side of the family is, I mean, I made a joke once that I did my 23 and me, and it's like, I'm European. It's like, yeah, I'm white. I'm just from like a whole, I'm like a little bit of everywhere with the sort of like emphasis being on France, Germany, Great Britain, Scandinavia. Oh, yeah. You know, like kind of just, which is like, so nothing. Yeah, so like a nothing guy. Yeah Oh yeah You know like kind of just Which is like so nothing Yeah so like a nothing guy Yeah just kind of like white

Yes But we really hung on to I think because there were old relatives Who were really Swedish Oh yeah Like Swedish Swedish So we hung on to the Swedish Which in retrospect also too is because

Like a lot of the Germans in the family Were assholes. Uh-huh. Were angry fucking pricks. Uh-huh. And nobody felt like honoring that legacy. Yes. So it was more like this kind of like, well, there's these giant, quiet, sad people who are eating pickled fish.

Let's hang on to their thing. Right. Well, I'm like Ukrainian as well. And I feel like that there's a softer side. Yes. There's like a, there's a. Ukrainian is easy to embrace, isn't it? I think so.

Yeah, yeah. There's an oppressed thing there. Right, right. Exactly. Well, and I mean, you know, certainly now recently, but it's always kind of been like. Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

A decent, you know, like they have their sort of history, but it's, they never fucked anybody over too bad. Yeah. Yeah. Great food. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah.

Absolutely. Yeah. Figure skaters. Uh-huh. You know. Right. All kinds. Any good pop stars?

Ukrainian pop stars? I would assume there's a few. Oh, I wish you knew some. I wish I did too. Yeah. Well, there's your homework. Next time. Yeah. Yeah. We'll come back's a few. I wish you knew some. I wish I did, too. Yeah, yeah. Well, there's your homework. Next time. Yeah.

We'll come back with a list. When you come back for the next three questions. Yeah, great. And your dad was a woodworker? That's right. Yeah. Yeah. He builds cabinets.

Okay. Cabinets, moldings. He worked with my grandfather for years, like 25 years. Family business, doing custom work like that. Mass lining cabinets. Oh, like 25 years. Family business, doing custom work like that. Mass lining cabinets. Oh, nice. Yeah. Are you, does it, do you have some practical building skills because of that?

Oh, God, I wish. Oh, really? I think I built a slanted shelf in shop class and was like, dad, chuck it out. Yeah, yeah. He's like, no, that's not. He never, he never like, see. No, we didn't have much. I mean, I wish I had an interest in anything that was like,

I'm fascinated by the ability to build something. Yes. To have like a physical thing that you, because nothing I do is tangible or anything. Yeah. So to have something that you're like, I actually put these together and it's a functional piece. Even like writing a script, I feel like has that.

Absolutely. Like you can hold it. There is, I've always, like I remember once early on impressing my ex-wife because it was like one of the first survivors. And there was this very spatial relations kind of test that I said was, and one guy was a chef. And I was like, the chef is going to win. kind of test that I said was, and one guy was a chef and I was like, the chef is going to win.

And the chef kicked everybody's ass because cooking is about understanding the, the, like, it's a spatial thing. It's like, you've got ingredients set out. You are thinking about kind of the, the, the linear nature of putting them together and it's a problem solving one after the other. It's the same thing with building a cabinet. Yeah. It's the same thing with directing a television commercial. Right. It's the same thing with writing a script. It's all kind of like you've got this massive problems and you have to just kind of deal

with what's next. Yes. Like I got to chop the onions before I worry about the next thing or I've got to, you know. Yes. I've got to cut these boards to this length and make sure they're right. Yeah, you know, and it's the ability to visualize something that's that's happening, you know, that's going to happen. I feel like I don't have that at all. Really? Well, I'm so like, I'm so scattered. I'm so like interested in like this

little thing over here. And there's no real kind of like logical, like linear is difficult for me. Really? Yeah. Well, so like when you're working with acting, is it something, do you just kind of, are you just kind of so much in a moment or do you have a game plan when you attack a role? I do. I think I've like tried to get,

I think when I was a kid, cause I grew up doing it. Yes. So I started when I was like, no. Oh, we'll get to that. Okay. I'll hold that info. Well, no, don't hold anything from me.

But like, I feel like I was so rigid in this sort of like linear idea of how to attack a scene or how to deal with a character or how to read a script. And it always kind of felt heady in a way that got in my way. Confining. Yeah. It was like ideas that way. Confining. Yeah. It was like ideas that aren't really anything. And so I've started to move in a different direction, which is like obviously doing all this like work and research and stuff like

that. But also for me, the interesting thing is the little moments between whatever, whatever that moment is, whatever the flow of that time is with the scene partner, as opposed to kind of like, you know. Having a set recipe that this is how this is going to work and this is what we're going to get out of it.

Yeah. And not leaving any room for discovery. Yeah, like discovery is all I want. Yeah, yeah. And I'm always striving to like be in the place where I'm open enough to discover. Yeah, like discovery is all I want. Yeah, yeah. And I'm always striving to like be in the place where I'm open enough to discover.

Yeah, yeah. Which is not easy for a heady person. Yeah. Well, it depends on, you know, I mean, I believe in that, but, you know,

I'm all from improv background. Yeah. And I always like, it's hard sometimes when I go work on kind of more legit things and I have an idea for a way to do something. And I don't want to show it to them until the camera's rolling. Yes, I'm the same.

Because it's like, it's the surprise of it, not only for the people watching it. Yeah. But for me doing it. Yes. I feel like the chances of it being best in that moment when I first am surprising them and surprising me with it. And even though it's going to be, it's on film and you'll see it a thousand times, there's

still something I think more with just, there's a little bit more magic in that surprise. Completely. Yeah. Like rehearsal for me always feels strange. Yeah. Before, I get the I understand the value of it, but I also feel like it sets you into,

it like loses that. Yes. Because I'm very much the same. Yes. I like to kind of monotone it. Yeah. Until the camera's on and then there's that like electric silence, right?

Like you're sort of held in that moment. Absolutely. Yeah. And I think, I mean, there's people that can't appreciate that, especially in television. Yes. Because you've got so many people, so many people, like, I need to see it before I sign off on it. Yes. And it's like, look, you hired me because you trust me.

Yeah. You know, it's an industry. Like I always say, it's kind of like an industry. And most of my metaphors are food metaphors. But it's like people buy a television show. I always say it's like hearing about a restaurant. You drive by it. You see it's crowded. Yeah.

And you hear wonderful things about it. Like you read a review that says the food's fantastic. So you're like, all right, we're going to make a reservation. You go. You sit down. You look at the menu. You order. and then you run back to tell the chef how to cook. Yeah, right. It's like, no, you saw. Yes.

You've seen that this is a good thing, that this person, this writer, this actor, this director, they're all good. And then you got these like, and it's like 10 fucking people. Oh, I hate it. That all have to have opinions. Yeah. Who are like, no, Tatiana, I need to see the full performance. It's so fucking deadly. And then they're like, I don't know why things don't work.

I don't know why everyone looks terrified all the time. I don't know why everything seems like everything else. Yeah, right. Yeah, or that thing of like, maybe do it more, and you're like, well, I might get there. Yeah. Like it might, that might end up happening next year. Right, right, right, yeah. Or whatever. Right.

Like that, I did that fear of, yeah, holding on to a result that they have in their heads. Right, right. Boo. Yeah. No, thank you. Well, now, how do you start? Do you know right away when you're a kid that you want to do? Are you a, are you a, first of all, are you an acting out kind of kid?

Are you a big kid? Maybe. Yeah. Maybe, but also deeply shy. Oh, okay. So, like, a kind of bizarre combo. That's not that. Which I think a lot of us are.

It's not that, but it's so weird how common that is. Yeah. Yeah. Like, this deep need to be watched doing stuff and have like that audience thing. Yeah. But also like, don't look at me and like, how dare you watch me? Yes. Like, I'm not worth it.

Right, right, right. You know what I mean? Like this bizarre. So that's definitely, I think when I was a kid, it was more like, watch me. Yeah. I think it was pure. It was less inhibited. Yeah. And it was more, I was like a dancer when I was a kid, it was more like, watch me. I think it was pure. It was less inhibited. Yeah.

And it was more, I was like a dancer when I was a kid. So I was always performing. And then it sort of naturally progressed into like community theater. And there was like a young kind of, there was like a sort of growing film industry in Regina. Drink it. I know. I'm getting some water. And that, I sort of ended up falling ass backwards into it.

Yeah. It wasn't like a real concerted choice to like do television. My parents were never like, we need you to do this. Right, right. Like they were like, whatever. Did they just sort of kind of like whatever you want to do, just pass it? That's nice. They were amazing for that.

If we, you know, I wanted to play the drums, they got us a drum kit. Like it was very whatever kind of creative thing we wanted to do. That's the kind of thing that like old relatives say is spoiling them. Totally. And it's really, it's like, no, no, it's like facilitating being alive, you know, in a way. Like embracing things that make you happy. Because you're like discovering yourself in that time. I think that that was like, it was strange to be immediately in a career in something.

Because when I was nine, I started acting for money. And then that kind of has never stopped and never not been the thing that I've done. When I turned 20, I sort of started to like, look at it and be like, what the hell, what is this? Like, what am I doing? When did this become the thing I was doing? And why? Like, yeah. Had you thought to that point? Like, because I think everybody thinks a little bit about, because it's the way, it's the way our society is. It's not just like who we are. It's like, well, what's your job?

Yeah. Like, that's such a huge component of what our identity. And, I mean, did you think like, oh, yeah, I'm an actor? Or was it when you were 20, you're like, oh, I guess I'm an actor because it's what I've been doing. Yeah, I think I guess I'm an actor because it's what I've been doing. And I had to kind I guess I'm an actor because it's what I've been doing. And I had to kind of like look at it and go, why am I doing it? What do I actually get out of this?

And I was training a lot then. I moved to Toronto, the big city. Yeah, yeah. Taking acting classes there, starting to watch film. Was that intimidating? Is Toronto intimidating? Oh my God, yeah. It's so funny because, like, I came to Toronto after Chicago, New York, and L.A.

Right. And then I spent some time in Toronto. It's like, this is the cutest, most comfortable city in the world. I know. It's so sweet. Everyone's so nice, you know. For me, it was like, da-na, na-na-na. Like, I was like, whoa.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. I couldn't get enough of it. The hard, scrabble streets of Toronto. Oh, my God. I just walked the streets listening to music. Yeah, yeah. Taken in the sights.

Yeah. Yeah, it's a tiny, wonderful place. Yeah. You don't still live there, do you? No. Most of my great friends are there, though. Oh, okay. So I do kind of.

You go back a lot. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And your folks are still in Regina there, though. Oh, okay. So I do kind of. You go back a lot. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And your folks are still in Regina? They are. Yeah. Yeah.

And siblings there, too? No, I have a brother, Daniel, who lives in Toronto, and then my other brother, Mikey, lives in Kelowna, B.C. Oh. And he's an animator, and Daniel's an actor. Is there animation in Kelowna, B.C.? Is that because it's close to Vancouver? I don't know why, but there's a bunch of studios out there.

So he's working on Rick and Morty. Oh, yeah. I didn't even know that that was up in Canada. Isn't that wild? But it's also like, I think it's also in India and also in Vancouver. Yeah.

They just sort of. Most, most animation, most of sort of like the nuts and bolts of animation is Korea or China or Taiwan or somewhere like that. Do you do animation? I do voices. Yeah. I do a lot of, yeah, which is like one of the, one of kind of the most thrilling aspects of the silliness of doing this for a living is that I also do cartoon voices.

Oh, it's the dream. Oh, it's the best. It's like the thing, I feel like it's like the thing I have most reverence for. Yeah. Because it's such a skill. It is. Like, I feel like I'm okay at it and I can do it. And I have a few voices and a number of voices.

And I, not a lot, but I mean, I can, like, I find out, because a lot of times when you're, especially if you're doing a series, they'll throw an extra character at you. Just they don't have to call in somebody new. They'll be like, can you be this squirrel? And you're like, let me try. And then you realize like, oh, shit, this squirrel is sort of like that pig I did on the last show. Like it's a very similar kind of voice. Whereas, and this was always a complaint before I started doing, you know, was on the other side of wanting a job in voiceovers or in animation.

And the complaint among people that weren't in on the inside was it's always the same people. Right. It's the same small pool of people that they just rehire and rehire. Right. Then you work with these people and you go, well, fuck yes. Yeah. These people are amazing. No, totally.

I have sat with the real deal people and they'll be like, can you do this squirrel? And they give them 10 choices of fucking squirrel. I love that so much. It's like, how do you do that? It's so dexterous. Yes. And it's so imaginative. And I remember I went to a Futurama live read and got to watch like Billy West and Joe DiMaggio and all these guys.

Yeah, yeah. John DiMaggio. John DiMaggio. Yeah, yeah. John DiMaggio is one of those people. Yeah. Well, they just like – and they were switching in – they were responding to themselves. Yeah.

As a different character. Yeah. In the moment. Yeah. With complete like complete transformation. Yeah. It the moment. Yeah. With complete, like, complete transformation. Yeah. It's so fascinating. It can be, though, like, being in recording sessions with the real voiceover guys.

Yeah. It can be, like, after, like, 45 minutes, you're like, all right, guys, shut up. Jesus Christ. Are they doing bits between? Oh, just because it's like. Just nonstop. It's like they're playing basketball and they're dribbling around shooting when they're not playing. Oh, right.

But they're just doing voices. Oh, wow. Like they're just doing voices to each other and being like, you know, hey, buddy. And, you know, like just, and it's just like, you know, it's like I say, it's like dribbling a basketball. Yeah. But with a character, which is fun and cool and really awesome to watch. And then a half an hour later, you're like, oh, my God, shut up. Please.

Do you ever say that to them? You ever just like, guys, shut up? Yeah, because there was a show that we did more group sessions. Because a lot of times the show is just for, you know. You're in a booth by yourself. Yeah, you're in a booth by yourself. And also everybody at a certain point, like they would,

they like, I get, even to this day, they'll send me like, here's the script for the cartoon. And I'm like, I think I'll be fine. I think I'll be fine reading it cold.

I got this. Especially when it's something like, oh my gosh, look out. Like, I don't need to practice that, you know? Right.

And, but when I used to do more kind of group recordings i do there was one day where i realized and i also i used to have a parrot i had for 10 years i had a parrot and i was sitting i wasn't record i wasn't in the booth and there were like six of the guys and they're all sitting on stools with microphones and they were like just making noise while the writers were deciding something or they're bringing up another real and i was like it's like the fucking parrot store they're all sitting on a perch squawking and then they're different squawks i was and it just was like and

i said that to the people next to me like oh my god you're right it's like i love that it's like they're just but like all kinds of different parents. Yes. All different kinds of parents. All different regions and dialects. Right. Exactly. Like one's French and one's a hillbilly. Yeah.

One's Cajun. It's a Cajun parrot. I love that. So you start working, you said at nine, you start working in TV shows. How weird. Yeah. Does that give your parents applause in any sense? Do they have any notion of like the danger of the child star?

Oh, I don't think that was even. They were just. I feel like because we were. And because it's Regina. Yeah, it wasn't like. You're being sucked up into the Regina nightlife. Yeah, totally. I was doing lots of coke though when I was nine.

But that's just to be expected. Sure, sure. Got to stay up for those. Got to stay awake for the night shoots. Those CBC shoots. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah. To play a young girl who's dying of whatever, tuberculosis or something.

How many different things have you died of? Oh, my God. I've killed more than I've died, I think. Oh, well, that's something. I've killed a lot. Yeah. I've given birth a lot. Nice.

To Jesus. Gave birth to Jesus. In what? In Nativity. The Nativity itself. Is it a Canadian movie? It was a Canadian-British co-pro. Oh, wow.

So I got to work in Morocco. Oh, wow. And we were like, it was fun. And you were full-on married through the whole thing? I was married start to finish. Oh, wow. Through inception. full on Mary through the whole thing. I was Mary. I was Mary start to finish. Oh, wow. Through Inception. Inception?

Conception? In the movie Inception. Now, is that like, is there something like silly about being Mary? It was wacky. Yeah, yeah. It was wacky because I grew up Catholic. So it was kind of like, oh, this is some wacky. Profound.

Yeah, yeah. Some wanky part of me kind of loves that. Yeah, yeah. And also, this is maybe TMI this is way TMI that's exactly where I live bring it on but I fully

missed my period when I came back and I was like how am I gonna explain to my boyfriend that I've been part of me was like

I know God I know where this is going what do you do like am I the am I the second coming of Mary, which is never a thing? Which has never been a thing? Until now.

Until now. Oh, now that is a good tagline. Yeah. There's never been a second coming of Mary. Until now. It's a horror movie. So you, like, were you thinking you might have to tell him, I swear it's immaculate conception. Yeah, I was like, I didn't have sex with anybody over there.

I swear. I was like, am I so method that I literally conceived? Yeah, yeah. I did asexual reproduction just because I'm that method. Yeah. I did use a plant as my basis for Mary. What do you mean? That was my animal in terms of reproduction.

Right. Right. Yeah. But it turned out, no, wasn't pregnant. No, I wasn't pregnant. Well, that's good. Just a little late. Just a little, just a little lady stuff.

Just God fucking with you. Probably. Morocco probably fucking with me. Morocco. Yeah, that could be it too. Like food poisoning fucking with me. that could be it right exactly yeah i'm uh i'm not religious really at all but man i am there for every fucking jesus story you can throw at me why i don't know i love them do you love them what do you mean like on tv movies really like this time of year like like you put every, you know, every sort of like Jesus story on.

My personal favorite is the Max von Sydow one. I can't even remember the names of them. What was that? He played him? Yeah. Oh my God. He's the most like fucking like, like Aryan ideal of Christ. There could possibly be the Max von Sydow one.

He was white. Yeah. And like I say, I can't remember the name of it because they're all like, you know, the life of Jesus or Jesus's time. Yeah. You know, the story, the greatest story. It might be the greatest story ever told, but I'm not sure. Is that right? Yeah.

Yeah. But I don't know why. I just love those stories. And from the birth stories to the crucifixion. all the in-between, I'm no Mel Gibson fan. But man, that guy makes a fucking gore porn like anyone's business. That fucking movie is awesome. And so is Apocalypto, the about the the mayans or aztecs fucking fantastic and it's all like i say it's just gore porn it's just you love gore i know i

don't love gore but just his ability and especially because it's set within a historical perspective where you can think like this is realistic this is what they were really doing like like you know a mayan sacrifice where they are cutting out the hearts of people literally all day and blood is running down a gutter from the removal of hearts of peasants like yeah that seems to be like on the historical record like that was what was happening and this is what it would look like how do we come from that i I don't know. I don't know. We're fucking animals. We've only been- We're just little creatures like what's inside of here.

I don't, yeah. I don't know. Did Jesus Christ Superstar mean anything to you? Yes. Oh, me too. Fucking great. Loved it. The best one is the Murray Head, the first, the Murray Head one.

Tell me, that's the original recording? That was, it was a concept album that, what's his face? The guy that wrote it with the three names. Andrew. Andrew Lloyd Webber did a concept album with Murray Head, and I'm forgetting the other singers. Like one was Jesus and one was Judas, and Murray Head was the lead singer of Deep Purple for a while, I believe.

So it's real fucking rock believe. Oh, wow. So it's real fucking rock star. Oh, wow. And it just exists as an album and then like some short films. It was never a production. And then it was made into a play after the fact, and you got the more, you know, kind of theatrical voices. Oh, that's cool. Oh, it's awesome.

I didn't know that existed. And like the original version of Jesus Must Die is just one of the rockiest songs ever. Yeah, yeah. I loved that. Yeah, yeah. There was something about the drama of that musical. Yes. Like deep, mellow drama that was just like, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. I loved it. And there's something obviously, I mean, you know, who knows if it's a fiction or who knows if it's what. It really, it's a great fucking story. Yeah. That combines all kinds of stuff about, like, you know, the magic of a chosen child. Yeah. And then living this life, you know, and supposedly they're being just, yeah, they're being just enough kind of historical backup.

Right. To these things happening. Yeah. And then like, then to become, then like to be completely punished and shit on and destroyed to only rise again as the most important creature in the world. You know, it's just like. It's all of our dreams for who we are. It appeals to so much, you know? Yeah, it really does.

We all love a martyr story. And it's also like, it's also the basis of Western cultures, art and literature and everything. It's like, you know, when you take, like I'm taking my kids to Italy and they're like, oh, another church. And it's like, well, yeah, this is kind of like. It's the same. This is kind of where it all starts. Yeah.

I'm playing a preacher right now for a TV series and have been reading the Bible. Yeah. And it is very boring. Oh, it's unbelievably boring. It's like exhausting. Yeah. And it's not well written. Like, it's not like, the way that we've interpreted those stories visually yeah so much

more interesting absolutely i remember like as a kid reading them in like like when they were drawn out and being like oh that's cool yeah that's like exciting yeah but on the page no you gotta you take it off the page yeah yeah well then there's like all those pages of so-and-so beget so-and-so be it's just like it's boringgets. It's just like, it's boring, preachy old shit, you know? It's bizarre. You should put out like now since you're reading it. Yeah. Do like a Reader's Digest, like sexy violent Bible.

That does save people's time. Just cut to the good bits? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Bible, the good parts. Yeah. It's actually fucking. The sexy cool bits. I might take that for myself.

Yeah, you should. Yeah, Jesus Christ. You should do an audio book of it. Yeah. And a bunch of characters. One of them's Cajun. The sexy cool bits. I might take that for myself. Yeah, you should. Yeah, Jesus Christ. You should do an audio book of it. Yeah. And a bunch of characters. One of them's Cajun. The sexy good parts. So what was that first show that you were on?

Were you a kid dying of cancer? I was a kid with epilepsy. Epilepsy. Yeah, but I just wanted to be normal. Yeah. And I was like, I was like this. I was tiny. I was a tiny little guy.

And it was a TV series called On My Mind. It didn't last longer than a season. I think it was only in Saskatchewan. Yeah. And. Wow, I didn't even realize that within Canada there was regional theatrical shows. Really? Oh, yeah.

Wow. I mean, I guess. Yeah. I don't think it would have, I think it was on like a Saskatchewan television network. Wow. Maybe even a Regina television network. Wow. So like six people saw it.

Yeah, yeah. But I remember. That's so weird because like we don't have, you know, there's not like a drama that's only in Kansas. You know what I mean? But was that a time? Was there a time when that was more a thing? Like with like public access television and stuff like that? I guess, but not that.

But I think it ended very quickly, like very, very quickly. There were variety shows, I think. Right, right. I'm no expert, but I mean, from just knowing enough, there were variety, you know, like kind of. Yes. Like, for instance, in L.A., there were tons and tons of country music variety shows. In the 50s, country music was huge in L.A. And there's like Spade Cooley was like a big band leader.

And Tex Ritter, who was John Ritter's dad or grandfather, was another country band leader. Like they had these Western swing bands and they would be tied in with a Ford dealership or something. So they do like subtle ads or like not so subtle ads? Or just no, like here we are and we're on the lot of like, you know, Alameda Ford. Oh my God. And we're, you know, and we have Patsy Cline singing and we're going. Really? Yeah, absolutely.

And then they had dancing and stuff. But I'm not aware of, because I do love regional television. Because growing up in Chicago, there were kids' morning shows that were specific. Yes. And there was a guy named Son of Sven Gulli who's still on, doing like kind of a comedy. He's still there? He's still on. He's like on Channel 20 here, the MeTV channel.

You know that one that shows Columbo? I don't have a TV, guys. Ooh la la. I don't have a TV. She's good enough to make her money off of it, but not good enough to partake. I don't support it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, listen, I make the drugs.

I don't take them. I don't take them. Yeah. No, but there was like he listen, I make the drugs. I don't take them. I don't take them. Yeah. No, but there was, like, he does, like, Creature Feature. You know, like, he pitches to, you know, like, that thing where there was for a while in every town. Yeah. And I always loved, too, like, Mr. Rogers was from Pittsburgh. Oh, my God, I love Mr. Rogers.

And was so Pittsburgh. Yeah. But I'm not aware of there being like a show about, you know, whatever, a drifter who solves problems. Yes.

It was more like a, it was like you got to know that person. Oh. Right? Like a first person kind of. That's what I mean about like Mr. Rogers or whatever.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's more what it was. Right, right. And that's what this show was. No, this was like a drama. Oh, wow. This was like a Degrassi style kids drama.

Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. And then just in was like a drama. Oh, wow. This was like a Degrassi-style kids drama. Yeah. That's crazy. Yeah. And then you're just in Saskatchewan. Just in Saskatchewan. And then I worked a bunch in Canada. Yeah. And just like travel around in high school, taking two months off to go do a horror movie in Edmonton or whatever.

And yeah. I met, now, does your mom go with you? Or your dad? I had a rolling whole circle. Custody kind of, yeah. Yeah, custody battle with my parents, who was going to be my chaperone. Yeah. My grandmother came out once, which was a great treat.

Yeah, yeah. But yeah, you have to until you're whatever, 17, 18, to have a parent there. Does that sort of make you neither fish nor fowl in terms of like being in your school and then also but also sort of like yeah you don't really probably fit in either i would yes i think i always felt kind of outside of both because when you're on set you're in this weird pseudo family that's mostly adults yeah and like a few kids and then when you go to school you're you're kind of like wait but what was that other thing right that was so impactful meant so much to me and now I'm kind of like at a desk it just

didn't compute right right I was sort of like half in both yeah but loved I loved school for the like I was on the improv team and I was like did you know theater there and stuff like that but it was kind of like a a little like excursion out of like what was really happening right right being on set was it was schooled end up being a letdown then because it's not as i mean you know making a movie is boring yeah it's a fun boring kid it's like so exciting yeah and i feel like school just didn't make like the social dynamics didn't make sense to me yeah i was always just like what are you guys why is everybody what are you doing why do you hate that guy and yeah like kind of fascinated from the outside right right i was like do you think that was

just because you were never there or do you think that if you were there you would have it would have been a little lost on you anyway i think so yeah i think i was always kind of i think i stayed a kid for much longer then. And maybe that's from being an actor, which is like both a combo of like doing an adult job, but also kind of having to maintain a sense of play and whatever. But yeah, I was never like a high school kid. I was always kind of, I was happier to like go home and make movies with my brothers or yeah claymation that kind of thing yeah yeah yeah i think too i mean just from my my experience around kids kid actors is i think one of the things that keeps them kids is that there is a um legally mandated hovering uh-huh you know like like it's like, I was, it was struck.

It struck me as so weird. I was working on a show where I was, you know, like I had kids in the show and I wasn't aware of the fact that like, whoever was the, the custodial, like guardian onset, there was a foot limit. Like they couldn't be any more than 500 feet away from them at any point. Like that's in the States. That was the rule. Like, like, you know, like, so it, which is meant to be that a producer can't say, Hey, I, we want to do a rehearsal over here and you wait over here. Yeah.

You have to, you know, it's just, you know, it's like, yeah. To keep people from, you know, doing a Judy Garland and filling a kid full of pills or something, I guess. I don't know. Filling a kid. But I think outside of tutoring, unless the kid was with a tutor, and it came down. I think the reason I came aware of it was like this. One of the mothers is like, if you're going to go shoot over there, I got to go be with them because I have to be within 500 feet of them.

Really? Yeah, yeah. See, I've never really experienced that. Yeah. I've only ever experienced parents who are like. Yes. Like. Got to be.

Kind of like almost in the chair. Yeah, yeah. The kid is standing. Yeah. Like sort of really part of it in a way that I'm like. It's unhealthy. Yeah. Yes.

Bizarre. It It's unhealthy. Yeah. Yes. Bizarre. It is mostly unhealthy. Yeah. I've talked, like I, talking to you, Seth Green was on, Mayim Bialik was on, like just different people that have been in this business for a long, long time. Mara Wilson is a friend of mine. Yeah.

People are still like Matilda, Matilda. Oh my God. It's just like but they all you all are like fairly well put together uh-huh you know i mean i don't know you that well but i'm assuming yeah um but there's so much disastrous wreckage which i think is like the odds-on favorite when you put your kid into this business yes and i remember i've talked about this before like my daughter who's 14 now for a while, she had some friends that were acting

and she wanted to do it. And she's a good actor too, as objectively as I can say. Right. And she asked me a few times and I just was like, no, no, no. And I finally had to tell her, here's why. Yeah.

Because she really pushed me. Like, why can't I? And I said, because you're going to be surrounded by adults who will say that they love you when what they're really, the main thing is they're making money from you. Yeah, totally. I said, they will judge your body. Yes. They will judge your voice. They will judge your face.

They will judge your behavior. They will judge your weight. Yep. You will be surrounded by adults that say they love you and that you're part of the family to them. Yeah. And they will be judging you constantly and they want to make money off you. Yes. That's a sick, fucked up situation. Yes.

That I, you know, I didn't even really start getting into until I was in my 20s and it was fucked up and sick. Even then, yeah. And I'm a man. Yeah. Like as a male, it's so much easier. Yes. They don't, you know, like there's lots of shit you can let slide and get sloppy on the edges.

Yeah. But they're so much more strict with women and so much more shittier and controlling with women that I was like, if you want a job before you turn, when you're 18, you can do whatever you want. But before that, you want a job, go to the grocery store. Flip a burger. Yeah.

But don't do this. Yeah. You know, and that's want a job, go to the grocery store. Totally. Flip a burger. Yeah. But don't do this. Yeah. You know, and that's just because I have the benefit of knowing it. Totally. You know. It's, for me, I think it was always strange because I didn't totally fit into, I've got a lot of friends who are very like beautiful, classically beautiful, and they have had much harder time of it in terms of that stuff

in terms of being like micromanaged on this sort of like external level right right um because that's the defining thing yeah that's like their value totally so you have to like preserve that and like like enhance that um and for me for me i always i was always more interested in playing like the weirdo characters. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? So I kind of skirted around that. Good for you. I mean, you know.

But it was just like, it was also out of being an outsider, interested in the outsider, like interested in that story. Yeah. But also being very, very resistant to any of that other stuff. Yeah. Because I was like kind of resentful that it even existed. Yes. That comes down to like also awards or any of that stuff where I'm just like, what is this?

Horseshit. Horseshit. It's like floating around that we're all meant to care about. Yeah. Or like fitting into a certain way of looking or whatever. Yeah. I'm just like, it's so bizarre. Were your folks good about that?

Where they sort of be whoever you want to be and don't care? Yeah. I mean, I don't think they really, they just let us go. And also I was like a working actor for so long. Yeah. Like I was just putting in the time. Right. You know what I mean?

I was working on this show, this show, da, da, da, da, da. And never like, like I think what's difficult for people like um the the people that you're mentioning are they also like blew up yes in a way that was so like uh in people's houses yeah yeah you know what i mean they became synonymous with a character or whatever and like how do you how do you skirt around that i don't know how do you like redefine people what what people expect of you yeah which is why i was always like i don't know how do you like redefine people what what people expect of you yeah which is why i was always like i don't want to ever play the same part and i want to do stuff that's you know i don't want that other flashy shit yeah for me it just never yeah it's

hard when you're young too especially when somebody says wow that's great look how great that is yeah let's do more yeah and you're young and you're like, sure, yeah, let's just keep the accelerator pushed. And it isn't until you're an adult that you realize like, no, no, I need a Saturday and Sunday. And I need to clock out at the end of the day and not live this fucking thing. In my 20s, I was working once on three projects at the same time. In my 20s, I was working once on three projects at the same time. So I did an indie movie during the day. I went and shot, over the night, guest star on a television series. And then the next day went back to this indie movie.

How'd you do that? I don't know. It was a disaster. I was like, God, I'll say yes to everything. Right. That's something I'm learning. Because I'm so old. I'm so old.

It'll go away soon. It's so old. Yeah, so old. It'll go away soon. Yeah. It's so old. Yeah, yeah. It's tenuous. So you didn't go to any – did you go to college at all or was it just – I went for half a semester. Yeah. I studied German.

I studied ancient Greek. Nice. As you do. I studied philosophy, psychology, and film. Was this right out of high school? No, I took a year to be depressed. I see. And not know what the heck was going on.

Sitting around Regina? Oh my God, sitting around Regina. Oh wow. I think I did a play, and I was part of an improv, a long-form improv company at the time. So that was what my outlet was. Yeah, yeah. So we did like, it was pretty great. We were part of like the season of the professional theater. So they had us in their like cabaret space.

Yeah, rotating. And we did like five shows a year. That's great. Which was really. That's really fun. It was amazing. Yeah, yeah. It was amazing.

But yeah, depressed for that year. Didn't know who I was, what I was doing. And then I was like, I'm going to move to Toronto. And go to college and was that was that move spurred by college or by

no I did college in Regina oh in Regina University of Regina nice and you just were like no fuck this well cause just everything came back to acting for me

yeah yeah and then I think I got a job in Toronto oh I think I was failing my creative writing class and I was like I'm going to play a writer

and my teacher was like, get out of here. Yeah. My, yeah, I have a 19-year-old who's in his freshman year at college.

Yeah. It's freshman year. He's homesick. Oh. And he's mentioned about like, maybe I'll take a gap year. Yeah. And there's a part of me,

you know, I want him to do whatever makes him happy, but there's a part of me that's like, and I'm just projecting my own personality into a gap year. Yeah. If I'd taken a gap year, I would have, going back, I would have been like, oh, fucking homework again?

Totally. Fuck this. Totally. And I never would have continued, you know? So I think I'm kind of like, no, buddy, hang out. Just hang on. Push through. Push through until you get whatever it is you need. But if you stop doing this, because so much of it is bullshit.

So much of college. And that's what he's complaining about. He's like, so much of the work is bullshit. And he's like in art school. Really? He's in design school. And he's like, so much of it is bullshit. And I was like, yeah.

Yeah. What they're doing is they're preparing you for life. Yes. So much of it is bullshit? Yes. Wow. Yeah. What they're doing is they're preparing you for life. Yes. So much of it is bullshit? Yes. Wow. Yeah. That's quite a unique perspective, you know?

I do wish I had that discipline that school provides. Yes. Like there was, I think I tried to recreate that in my life, taking classes and stuff like that. But there is something about like going to a program and having to work through the boredom of it. And the regimentation of it. And also, you've got to get a grade. You know, if that matters to you, it's an incentive as opposed to, I mean, I know for myself, my own loosey-goosey standards would be like, well, you know, I guess I did okay in that. And it's like if someone else was judging it, I would be like, well, you know, I guess I did okay in that.

And it's like, if someone else was judging it, I would be like, oh, yeah, no, I should do better than C. Yeah. It's also a place to fail big time. Yeah. I think especially like theater school. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You go in a safe space, like do the take that, you know, on set people would be like, can you, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.

Where you're not being paid to do it. Right, to waste everyone's time. Yeah, yeah. Nobody's standing around tapping their foot as making money. Yeah, totally, totally. Yeah, it's also just a good place to learn to be yourself. That's for me. I feel like I went through four years of college,

and I ended up in film school the last two years. Oh, really? Yeah, in Chicago. And I started, I worked in an internship for a company that made commercials. And working on commercial, on the sets of commercials, within three months, I learned more than two years of film school. I bet. of movies and I kind of, you know, got the format of screenplays and learned a little bit about, you know, how to read a movie like a book, you know, and how to pull thematic stuff and learning like, oh, that's, you know, that that's imagery that's representational of an idea and all, you know, that kind of stuff that, but then it's like, no, making

movies is unloading trucks and pulling cables. And then, you know, and then like, and then as an actor, it's just like, I just look at it as the same thing that like, oh, we need this lighting change. Get that guy on a ladder and change that light and hurry. Yeah. As an actor, that's your thing. But it's like, you're not hanging a light. You're making, you know, making yourself cry or getting this joke out right or whatever. But it's still you're not hanging a light you're you're making you know making yourself cry or or getting this joke out right or whatever but it's still that same pressure we got a lot of

work to do oh my god yeah we're part of a crew yeah and and you know and you got to do your job and when it's time to do your job you got to do it expeditiously you know that's why i don't really understand why actors are so kind of like special outside of it. It doesn't make sense to me. Cause I'm like, there's so many aspects. Well, some of them are big children. Yeah. You know,

that need to be felt. Totally. I mean, you do get, there are like obvious trappings. No, no grip has his own little room that he can take a nap in. You know what I mean?

And I deserve that room. No, that's, I always, you know, cause like having gone from being on a film crew and doing all kinds of different jobs. Yeah. And I ended up in props.

That was like where I ended up. Yeah, yeah. I did props. I love props. Oh, props is the best. Props must be so fun. Props is fantastic. And I did special effects props too.

Oh, what? Which I got hired by a guy who just like when I was a PA on a set, there was this company from Minneapolis that came down, and we're trying to get into the Chicago market of special effects props on commercials. And they hired me to come in, and they just assigned me. The first job I had was like, we need this dishwasher to open as a person walks by it, like invisibly open. Oh, wow. Okay. And they didn't say do you know how to do that they said we need this to happen and so i was left in a workshop to take

the housing off a dishwasher no and see how the door works and figure out with like just parts and shit that they had laying around i bet if i run a fish line here and a pulley here that i can make this happen through that you know and we have to build a fake housing around it, but, or like make an ice cream box float on camera. Like, you know, it's ice cream, it's light ice cream. So it floats. So it's like a box. You're really selling this ice cream. It's light?

Yeah, I know. Look, it's floating. But I would, that to me was like so thrilling to like just have this magic project, you know, to make a little magic trick and have it do that. I mean, I could very well have ended up doing that. But, you know, performing is so much more fun. You get that sweet little room. Yeah. So, I mean, now that I'm in that part of the crew, it is, there are times when I'm like, well, I can't really complain.

You know, like when I'm around actors that complain about waiting. Oh, my God. You know, like. Oh, my God, yes. I did a movie called Semi-Pro, which was a basketball movie. And we had, it was either three or four weeks of basketball. And me and Andy Daly and Will Arnett. Andy Daly and Will Arnett, Andy Daly and Will Arnett

were the color and play-by-play commentators. Great. And they had to sit courtside for some reason. There was no booth. They were sitting courtside and I was the team manager who kept the scoreboard. So I had to sit courtside for three or four weeks of basketball scenes. Wow. And we were fucking background for three or four weeks. Yes. Wow., wow. Oh, wow. And we were fucking background. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. For three or four weeks. Yes. Wow. And it was like. Wow.

Yeah. One of the three of us got very impatient. I can't wait to know who. Say it publicly. No, no. You figure it out. One of the three of us would get so fucking impatient and I would just be like, what are you going to do?

Yeah. It's a basketball movie. Yeah. We're sitting courtside. Yeah. We gotta be here. It's fucking maddening, you know? But also we get to just sit here.

Yeah. You know? Yeah. All I did, because I was in period correct clothing. Oh, sorry. So I had like polyester Sansa belt. Perfect. Like sky blue knit slacks.

Yeah. So I had like polyester Sansa belt, like sky blue knit slacks sitting on an old Naugahy chair, which became just the worst ass pimple farm of my entire life. At the end of that shoot, I mean, it was like, there was like tangible damage to my ass complexion from doing the basketball scenes. But did that put you deep in the character? No, it was un-fucking-comfortable and annoying and gross. Just could sit there feeling them sprout. That's incredible. 14-hour days, yeah. But so when, now, I've got to move on.

We can't just talk about my ass pimples. I've been talking too much here. Can't you tell my love's a groan? Where does Orphan Black pop in along that? How old are you when that starts? Is it just a continuation of your life in Toronto? Yeah, it was just like another thing I auditioned for. And I remember when I auditioned for it, I was so excited. Just by the prospect of it. The juiciness of it.

Oh my God. Yeah, yeah. Who gets to do that? Yeah. The juiciness of it. Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah. What, like, who gets to do that?

Yeah. There were so few things that I wanted to do in a TV series because I hated the idea of, like, being locked into a character for six years. So this was just like, really? I get to play a thousand? And the audition process was like theater sports. Like, it was like, okay, now do this guy and now this one. And I brought in like a few little pieces that sort of helped me kind of connect. You mean like glasses or a scarf or whatever? But that shit's really important.

It is. Just like a tiny touchstone, right? Absolutely. That's just one way of working is like for me, you know, like, I mean, I'll joke about it, but it's like, oh, who is this character? And then they put a wig on. Oh, yeah. And you're like, oh, I know who this person is now. Totally.

Thank you, wig. I had that with a character on Orphan Black. They put the wig on me and I immediately burst into tears. Oh, wow. Because I could see her. I could see her life. I could see the pain. I could see the pain. I could see all of it.

It was just like instant. It's a good wig. It was a great wig. It's a dollar store wig. Yeah, it's such a trip. It's so fun to get to. I think that like, well, we're seeing a lot of wig work now. Yes.

There's a lot of wigs happening on screen. There's a lot of facial whatever CGing. Yes. I think we're like ready for it again. Yes. There's a lot of wigs happening on screen. There's a lot of facial whatever, CG-ing. Yes. I think we're like ready for it again. Yes. I love that stuff though.

You mean, yeah. I like when it's practical. We for years, and I recommend this to anybody in the world, a box of wigs

in your closet. Yeah. For when you get fucked up and you got people over, bring out the wig box and go crazy. It's the greatest. And now that we have phones on our, cameras on our phones, a wig box, you know, it's the best.

You're going to become viral quick. Yes, yes, exactly. And that's what we all want. Yeah, yeah. You want to get viral? Is that your goal? No, not really. I mean, I like the likes, I guess, but the viral.

I love the likes. The viral's a lot of pressure. I keep trying to delete those the likes, I guess. I love the likes. The viral is a lot of pressure. I keep trying to delete those apps. I can't. I need the likes. I do delete them sometimes. Yeah, me too. And I feel better for a while.

And then I'll have awful days where like, this is toxic. Oh, my God. And there are people saying, there are shit posters saying unwarranted shitty things about me. Oh yeah. And I'm like, what the fuck? And then an hour later, I'm like arguing with someone about gun control just to get it out of my, like this I know this is pure. I know I'm right. Fuck you and your guns.

I fell down a message board the other day and I was like, why did I do this? It wasn't, and I wasn't engaged with it. Right. Fuck you and your guns. I fell down a message board the other day and I was like, why did I do this? It wasn't, and I wasn't engaged with it. Right. No. It was like just tearing into my life and, and like speculation on me and like, where'd she go after, and I was just like, oh, it's awful. And it was like four people. It's awful.

But they were loud. They rung through my ears all night. And it does, it does seem like,, like, my shit posters are kind of in the – they're kind of young people that are in comedy. They're either in comedy or kind of, you know, trying to get into comedy. So they are in the churn of my particular little area of Twitter. Yes. And I'm older than most of them, you know? So like I already, and I'm naive to that.

I'm like, I forget that like, yeah, I'm, you know, 20, 30 years older than a lot of these people. So I don't realize like what a fucking creepy old fart that I could be just because I don't feel that, you know? I don't, and so it's like, I should know better, but it's just, I don't have that. But I did that the other night and it it's like, I should know better, but it's just, I don't have that. But I did that the other night and it was like, before I went to bed. Yeah, that's what I did too.

I went over into like one of these corners to see about some other issue and then started seeing stuff about myself. And it just is like, it's just like, it's not fair and not true. And the desire to like, I'll set this straight. And then you're like, no, this is like, if you try and set this straight, it's like a substitute teacher in front of a class of mean teens trying to plead to their humanity and beg for reason. All you'll get is spit balls and Yeah. And howls of laughter. Yeah. And, you know, okay boomer or whatever the fuck, you know. You know, so it's, yeah.

Yeah. But yet I still, I haven't, you know, like Twitter mainly. Twitter's my main thing. Yeah. And I still, I have real friends. Yeah. Real friendships. Real enriching important friendships.

Yeah. And relationships in my life. And I've learned things. And I've learned things about myself. Yeah. Real friendships, real enriching, important friendships and relationships in my life. And I've learned things and I've learned things about myself. And it has kept me in the mainstream, especially in terms of, you know, whatever you want to call it. Like what's acceptable to say? Because there are other white men my age in comedy who aren't as online as I am who say and do things and make jokes where you're like, sweetie, you can't say that anymore. I get it. You could say it 15 years ago.

You can't say that anymore. And I just have the benefit of being sort of out there and knowing that. Right. Because you're engaged with it. Yeah, yeah. So what do you – do you just turn it off? Is there something – do you have some sort of – It's very rare that I'll go down those paths. there right and knowing that you know right because you're engaged yeah yeah what so what do you do you just turn it off is there something do you have some sort of rare that i'll go down those yeah like it's so rare yeah and i don't really yeah i think because i know that it's

crap and i also know that it's very uh fueling for me in terms of insecurity and how do you how do you talk yourself down from it? I don't know. Yeah. I don't know. I think that that feeling has always been part of performing for me. Yeah, yeah. Is like the feedback. I'm shit.

They're right. I'm crap. I'm shit. Yeah, yeah. Yes. I was talking to a friend about it the other day. I was like, I think at once that I'm amazing and that I'm the worst. Yes.

At like in the exact same breath. It's a seesaw. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know if that's like habitual, habitual. Like if I get something out of that. Yeah. If like being like, this is good.

Yeah. Would be boring. Yeah, yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like if that drama is something that feeds me. Yeah. Or makes me keep working. Yeah.

I don't know yet. I think, I mean, like I said, it's a seesaw. And I visualize it as a seesaw where somebody says one thing and then it just slams the I'm shit end of the seesaw down. Or somebody compliments me 10 minutes later and it's like, I am the fucking best. Yes. You know, that side and i think as i get older and mature what i'm trying to do is to like move the leverage closer to the center you know like so like to the fulcrum so that i don't get tilted so much one way like i'm not shit but i'm also not the greatest you know so

it's like it's better to kind of have it centered to just maintain the balance of – Do you trust yourself? Yes, I do. Is that something you've come to or is that – Yes, it's something I've come to and it's also – I've been to tons and tons and years and decades of therapy. Uh-huh. And I am – and I do therapy in good faith. Yeah. And I am not afraid to get to the point where I realize, oh, yeah, I fucked that up.

Like, I've been an asshole about that, you know. And I've never been afraid to, like, deal with stuff. Like, there's very little in my life aside and even and especially like in later years for a long time because of depression i was afraid to deal with sad things i would turn the radio off if a if a triggering i made air quotes song came on like there's some songs that were just too sad and i couldn't listen to them right now i'll fucking cry you know i'll be driving to pick up the kid at school and be crying in the car because of a sad song.

Yeah. And so, yeah, it's taken a while. Yeah. But, you know, but yeah, it's like, it's, you got to be brave about it. Yeah. You got to be brave about it. You got to be prepared to criticize yourself as much as you're going to criticize other people.

Right. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. I guess coming back to that fulcrum thing're going to criticize other people. Right. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. I guess coming back to that fulcrum thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like checking back in. Yes, yes. With the gut.

Yeah. With the, yeah. Yeah, and I mean, well, yeah, because you want to think of yourself, you want to think of yourself as a good person. Yeah. You want to think of yourself as a talented, worthy person. Yeah. as a good person. You don't want to think of yourself as a talented, worthy person.

If you're not being honest, if you're not like, if you're denying your responsibility in bad situations or you're denying patterns of your own behavior that are destructive and hurtful to you and others, how can you believe that you're good and kind and righteous? You got to be able to, if you're loving yourself, you're good and kind and and righteous sure you gotta be able to if you're loving yourself you're gonna love yourself warts and all so yeah and you're gonna try and cure the warts you know you're not just gonna you know especially there's a lot of men like i like i've always said like i was just talking to somebody about the difference between men like that you know within within like cishet couples. Sure. There's the big beef of women saying, you don't do enough.

And, you know, like you don't help out enough. You don't contribute enough to this, whether it's housework or emotional or whatever. And the men are like, quit nagging me. Right. And it's true. Men need to do more. But I think that a problem that arises is that women frequently, they'll talk to men the way that they talk to themselves in that they're like, that they kind of like their way of upkeep

is like, I got to be better about this. I got to, you know, and also just they're, they're more concerned about making sure everybody's okay. Whereas men specialize in letting themselves off the hook. They really do. One of their strongest survival techniques is like, oh, that was fucked up. But you know what? I think I was right. Or like, I got to cut myself some slack. I was an asshole, sure, but I think it was not that big a deal.

I think that's attached to masculinity in here, like in socially. Yes. That it's an upholding of a. When you run things, it's easy to think that things aren't, that problems aren't that much your fault. Uh-huh. Because you run things. Yeah. You know?

Yeah. Oh, so interesting. Yeah, yeah. It's like, that's what's like, I think a big thing, I don't want to get too much into politics, but like what people love about trump is like that he's like to say like he doesn't follow the rules it's like yeah well fuck that we're white men and we make the rules right like we don't have we make the rules and then we do whatever the fuck we want yes and that appeals to people so much yeah like yeah yeah fuck the rules like no no not fuck the rules the The rules are important. They're crucial. Yeah, they're really, really crucial.

They keep us safe. This is not a movie. No. This is not a John Wayne story. You know, like, yeah. Do you feel that in yourself? What do you mean? Like that holding on to a masculine idea of this is my space, this is mine.

Do you catch yourself in that? I'm half a man, to be honest. I really, I mean, there's so many things where i just like especially because i'm i'm getting divorced and there's like just been like occasionally i would feel myself being kind of like selfish uh-huh and and uh and in like a male way and there's a part of me that's like, ooh. And then there's another part of me that's like, yeah. Finally, I'm a man. You know? I'm taking care of me.

Yay. No more worrying about other people. You know? You're finally doing it. Yes. I'm finally being a creep. So happy for you. Yeah.

So happy for you. I mean, and it's all within, like. Sure. Within, you know, like, relatively speaking, it's totally, like, you know, it's like, fuck me. No, fuck you, buddy. Woo, I did it. You know. Just a little rebellion.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I'm, you know, I'm a caretaker. And, like, I've said it on this show before, like as a father. Yeah. I didn't, my father was fairly absent. So I like, and I was raised in a house full of women. My fathering is just a male version of mothering. And I think that a lot of like, and that a lot of like ways,

I like, I see female perspective just because it was what I was used to it was what I was surrounded by as a kid and I just absorbed it by osmosis a woman's view of things right and I didn't have this big male guy that's in charge of everything you know this is how I didn't have that I just had a bunch of women no one particularly particularly in charge, all just kind of like yelling at each other. And I, you know, and it's like, okay, that, and that's the way I see things. A bunch of women yelling at each other. That's kind of so true. And I, and even now today at a party, if women are in one room, the men are in the other room, I'm kind of like, oh man, I'm going to the room where the women are.

in one room and the men are in the other room and I'm going, oh man, I'm going to the room where the women are. Yeah. Not because I'm some groovy playboy. It's because that's where

the interesting shit's going to happen. The fact that you said groovy playboy. You know, I mean like a guy that's groovy, you know, like hey,

hello ladies. Swinger guy. Yeah. That's so great. Yeah, yeah. Oh, interesting. Let's get back to you now. I got nothing.

Oh, come on. How many seasons was Orphan Black? Five. Five. We did five whole seasons, and my heart has only started beating regularly in the last year. Really? Yeah.

How long ago? When did it end? We ended two, was it two years ago? Yeah. Time is a construct. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know. Were you happy with it the whole way through?

It was tough. It was was tough. Because I imagine that that narratively could get out of control. Totally. And also my brain does not plot understand. Like I don't get it. I don't follow plot in movies that I've seen thousands of times. Wow. Like I just don't.

It doesn't. I was watching like The Sopranos with my friend the other day because I've never seen it before. Yeah. And there was a scene and after the scene ended, I was like, wow. And he was like, yeah, it's pretty crazy how like so-and-so did this and that. I was like, huh? I just liked how they were talking to each other. I just liked how they were like to each other. I just liked how they were like, relate. Like, it doesn't.

So to hold so many plots in my head and in my body on Orphan Black was like a trip. Now, I'm projecting again here myself. Please do. Into, hey, Andy, you got this job where, and also too, there's this, like I just love, there's a gimmick. Yeah. A believable, grounded gimmick that says you're 10 different. Now, what was the most? I think it was like 11 characters.

11 people. I would feel so out over my skis about like, wait, who am I now? Right. Which one am I? Is this too much? Like I said, with the cartoon voices, I would realize like, there's only so many tricks I got? Right. Which one am I? Is this too much? Like I said, with the cartoon voices, I would realize like, there's only so many tricks I got. No.

And I for sure started to feel like sometimes would really chastise myself if they were like blending in some way. Yeah. Yeah. But I think they were also like kind of, it was fun because we got to work with like archetypes in a way that was like, okay, these are like the sort of what you expect of these characters.

Sure. And then let's like open them up. Right. And allow them to be a bit more like they meet each other and that was like, okay, these are like the sort of what you expect of these characters. Sure. And then let's like open them up. Right. And allow them to be a bit more, like they meet each other and they're like, you know, learning and growing together. Yeah. So there's a bit of leeway for them to kind of, but they were also like different accents. Yeah, yeah.

Like we said, the wigs are very powerful. I let the wig speak. You know what I mean? It was just like, it was, I liken it to improv a lot in the sense that it was like getting a suggestion and then elaborating on that. So the suggestion was like

the root of that character, whether that was like a physical movement or a kind of internal rhythm. Or a political reactionary. Totally. Or like this is their worldview. So they see it through these eyes, but then we can kind of like expand it. But it was like taking like a little, like a word and just letting it see where it goes.

You know what I mean? See where it goes. Well, that's a basic improv thing too is that you're never given a premise that's like so out of left field. Everything is a little bit like something you've heard before totally so what and in improv it is to take to follow those aspects that everyone is going to be of like a dentist's office or whatever or like a murderous dentist yeah yeah and to follow what people are going to expect of that and then surprise them and surprise yourself totally i think that that was something that the show was great at,

and that you were great at, was that taking those kind of, okay, I know who this person is. Yeah. Like this is the introvert weirdo, but, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And that's always been like my mandate too, is like what do we expect, especially of women,

like what do we expect them to be when we see them mandate too. Yeah. Is like, what do we expect, especially of women? Like, what do we expect them to be? Yeah. When we see them on screen. Yeah. And how can we subvert that and sort of go like, fuck you. Yeah,

yeah. They're actually this, that, and this. You know? Yeah. Was there somebody on the show that helped you keep track of like?

I had a dialect coach who was amazing, who definitely helped that kind of technical thing. But it had like an hour and a half between characters where I'd go, you know, hair. Right.

Right. Of course. So then it was for me, music was a big music and movement were a big thing. Oh, you had music that you would keep with one character. Yeah. I had like playlists for one character.

that's great. That's great. Cause that to me is very transformative. Yeah. You know, the music is like how you move through a space differently. And it allows your body to move differently. Sure, sure.

Whatever. Especially coming from dance, I think that was like a big thing. Yeah. And also, to me, I always think of it in soundtrack terms. Yeah. Like you can totally, you know, if you have headphones on and you change from one track to the other, whatever movie you're living in changes. Yes. Oh, God.

And I live in those movies yeah yeah i feel like that's like the the constant state is like inside a movie in my own head it's it's such the easiest thing as a filmmaker like to use a very evocative piece of music yeah and you like all you have to do is like oh it's the subway and then you just put on some like great song and it sets it. And it's like, it always feels a little cheap, but it's also like, yeah,

but fuck, that's a good song. I'm a sucker for that. Yeah. Me too. I also think it's like science. It is science. Yes.

Like it's like chemical somehow. Yeah. Yeah. That there's like, or like the way that a song goes, whatever it does is like chemical reaction in you. Yeah. I think so, too.

I'm up for it. Yeah. I love to be manipulated. You heard it here, folks. Now, I imagine, was there a lot of continuity and directors to help you with this? Or is there a showrunner that kind of keeps you on track? Yeah. Especially if you have trouble with the plot.

Yeah. Oh, God. You needed help reminding, like Yeah. Especially if you have trouble with the plot. Yeah. Oh, God. You needed help reminding, like, this is why you're blowing this thing up, you know, or why you're thinking of murdering this person. No, totally. And also, I had this awesome scene partner who was playing all the clones opposite me. Yeah. It was Catherine, and she would basically, like, learn all the parts. Oh, she's like the unsung me. Yeah. It was Catherine. And she would basically like learn all the parts.

Oh, she's like the unsung hero. That's fantastic. Totally. Never seen. You got to have somebody that good. Oh my God. And so we would like block the scene. She'd watch how I did it.

Yeah. And while she's responding to me, be also taking in what I was doing. Yeah. So that then she could do it on the other side. Yeah, yeah. So she was really great at being like, why is this happening? Why would I say this here?

Yeah, yeah. Kind of like reminding me about certain questions that maybe I'm taking for granted. I didn't even think about that. But yeah, Jesus Christ, what a fucking awesome beneficial tool. Not to call a person a tool, but I mean, but I mean that you both had together, you know? Yeah. Sort of.

There's another beneficial tool. Oh, fucking awkward. The bully of Earwolf just walked in and disrupted us. The president himself. Yeah. Yes. Look how arrogant.

You like, you know, you like how he's like dressing more legit now? He's like, he's like suiting up. He's wearing sport coats and like these little sort of like, I'm a Connecticut, you know, like hedge fund guy on my weekend. He's got a phone.

Canvas Keds kind of. What a jerk. He can't hear us. He can't. Anyway, Aukerman's a prick. Aukerman sucks. If we have any, take anything away from this. If we, if there's one thing I've learned today, it's that I hate Scott Aukerman.

Aukerman's an asshole. Yeah. So what was, when Orphan Black ends, what is that? Is it equal parts sigh of relief, equal parts holy shit? Oh, my God. It was like, who am I? Oh, wow. Because it was such an impactful thing.

It changed my life in terms of all of this stuff. Yeah. I would never be in rooms that I was in because, like, if Orphan Black hadn't existed, I wouldn't have done this movie or this or whatever. Nobody would know me. Or know Scott Aukerman, probably. I would not be able to personally give the thumb. The thumb? The thumb.

Give the thumb? Give the thumb. Want to ride? Want to ride home? We can get you a car. I biked here, and I'm exhausted. Somebody put me in their pickup. Yeah, it was weird.

I went through a bit of a, like, boo. Yeah. Like, I don't know who I am. That's fucking hilarious that on a show where you're playing 11 people, it leaves you like, I mean, it's hilarious,

but also like, well, yeah, okay. Then what's left? It's almost like the most obvious joke. Yeah, exactly. I was on a show that played 11 people

and now I don't know who I am. Now I don't know who I am. Oh, gee whiz. I'm obvious. What I am is really conventional. No, but I mean, I think that would happen to anybody. Totally. But I feel that after any job.

Oh, really? I like to do a little grieve afterwards. Yeah, yeah. You don't have any shitty jobs that you're just like sayonara sucker? Oh, my God, yes. Yeah, yeah. Oh, my God, yes. Yeah.

But even those, I'm like, but it was a job. Right, right, right. And I'll never get to like do that. Food was good. The food was free. Yeah, yeah. Oh, my God, yes. Yeah. But even those, I'm like, but it was a job. Right, right, right. And I'll never get to, like— Food was good. The food was free. Yeah, yeah. Weather was nice. Weather was rarely nice.

If you're shooting in Canada, weather is rarely nice. Yeah. No, I definitely went through a rediscovery of myself outside of—I also took time off. Yeah. Which was shocking to my system. And now I know how to do it. Did you travel or did you just sort of take just? I traveled, I moved here, sort of like set up a life here and figured stuff out

and just like took time to be like a lump a little bit. Just like follow what I wanted to do, which didn't involve work. And then I went and did theater. I did a year of theater. Where at? I did, in New York, I did Off-Broadway. I did a Tracy Letts play called Mary Paige Marlowe. Yeah, it was amazing.

Wow. And then I did Network on Broadway. Oh, wow. I didn't know. I'm not a big theater person. Yeah. I mean, I kind of am aware of the bigger shows. And like my kids are kind of more into theater than I person. Yeah. I mean, I kind of am aware of the bigger shows and like my kids are kind of more into theater than I am. Yeah.

I have a weird, like I like musicals. Like I just was in New York and saw the Oklahoma. Oh, yeah, the revamp. Yeah, that's sort of like in the round Oklahoma, which is fucking awesome. Yeah. But I have this weird thing with theater. Like I felt it intensely in that Mark Rothko play. Which one is that?

Called Red, I think. About Rothko? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, interesting. It was in here in LA and Albert Molina played Rothko. And I can't remember who played like, it's like his protege. And it's mostly two people and it's about art. And I get this weird feeling of embarrassment watching someone, being in the same room with someone, like getting intensely emotional about art.

And I know it's fake. I know they're not real. You know, it's like they're putting on. It's like to me, it just it mirrors my own feeling of having to do an audition where you have to do something big. Right. In somebody's office. Yes. With like three people and some poor kid videotaping you. And you have to like get really angry and yell or something. And it just feels like, to me, it always feels like jerking off in front of somebody or something.

I hear you. Yes. It's just like, oh, this is so artificial and weird. And in a theater audience, I often just end up, I don't get transported.

I don't get carried away. I just feel like, oh my God. Yes. You're so aware of the artifice of it. Yeah. Yeah. Like Albert Molina is really fucking going to town up there.

And I want to leave. Yeah. And I want to get out of here. What is it? It's about the camera somehow allows you distance from it. Distance, absolutely. Because it's like this. Yeah.

Yeah. Interesting. The camera can't look back at you. Right. Whereas I do feel like, I don't know. And it's like, and also when you're watching something that's filmed, that was filmed a while ago, you know, or even if it's live, it's like, I'm somewhere else. But you did improv. I know.

I know. But that's like comedy. You know, it's like, and honestly I can do, you know, I mean, I've walked around sets in a fucking dance belt for a day. You know what I mean? Like, like. We all have done that. Nudity is, like, not a big thing.

Or, like, you know, even, like, doing bits where, like, like the nudity part of it is always, like, for me, and especially, like, from ages ago on the Conan show starting out, we both would kind of do it. But it was, like, but, like, my nudity is hilarious. Whereas was like but like the my nudity is hilarious whereas like somebody else's nudity is hot and that i'm supposed to go oh you know like i just somebody was just telling me like chris farley doing that chippendales bit right it was just the worst thing in the fucking world right for him to have to do this bit. Right. But you have no choice but to fucking go for it.

Yes, right. And as good as he was, as genius as he was, he fucking killed it. Yes. He made it like something that will be looked at for generations in terms of comedy. Right. But it is a primarily hurtful thing to do to a human being. Totally. To go, let's look at your body and laugh.

Yes, totally. Because to me, and having thought about it, the thing that's funny about it is like a body like that should not be seen. Should not be seen like that. You should be covering that fucker up and being ashamed of that thing. Yes, right. And so it's like, I've done that and it's a weird thing and I can, and I don't, you know, it's not like it's, it's not a profound hurt. It i can and i don't you know it's not like it's

it's not a profound hurt it's just like well this kind of sucks yeah but this is part of the job you know and and and i'm you know and i'm not uptight about showing my body or stuff yeah and i'm not uptight about making an ass of myself yeah but or looking ugly. Right. Like, I always loved it early on in comedy when there were women and they would get a compliment like, boy, you are so okay with looking ugly. Like, that that was like some heroism. Yeah. Oh, totally. You know, like, it's like. I mean.

It's like. It's risky. Maybe somebody won't want to fuck you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. You actually became unfuckable for a minute. Right, right. How brave.

How did you survive? How brave. Yeah. Wow. Yes. So it just, but that's like separate than, I don't know. That's a different vulnerability. Yes.

And like you said before, there's the difference between somebody that wants to be looked at and then is also shy. Yeah. I think it's about the control of it. Uh-huh. Like, I don't want you looking at me when I decide I don't want then is also shy. Yeah. I think it's about the control of it. Uh-huh. Like, I don't want you looking at me when I decide I don't want you looking at me. Yes. But when I want you looking at me, I want you to shut up, sit in a dark room, and I'm

going to get in front of some lights, and you're going to look at me like that. Uh-huh. Right. But, like, if you come up to me at a family gathering and want to talk to me, I'm going to crawl out of my skin and go, I got to go to the bathroom. Go hide in the comic book room.

I got to go to the bathroom and look at my phone for 20 minutes. Yeah, interesting. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. But theater for you just... It makes my skin crawl a lot. Oh, that's so funny.

Like I say, I like musicals. Yeah. Like I'm trying to think of like, Oklahoma was great and i really loved fun home like and that and that was a heartbreaker but oh my god but it was a just awesome songs and just you know so good amazingly talented people in it yeah did you read that book yeah i read the yeah i read the book before i didn't i didn't even i read the book and then because i don't know so much about theater yeah when the i i my ex-wife bought me and my son tickets for it.

And I was like, oh, wait, it's that? Like, is that what that is? I was like, oh, I didn't know. I think you just don't know how theater works at all. Okay, cool. You know, that sounds good. We sit here and watch this. I'd like to go see that if it's that thing.

I didn't know what it was. It's a graphic novel on stage. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so after the theater, are you out here? Is it pilot season stuff? Is it just, are you just another actress pounding the pavement? I'm just pounding the pavement. I'm doing a show for HBO.

Nice. That's the pavement. Which one is it? It's called Perry Mason. Oh, and it's Perry Mason. It's Perry Mason. Oh, awesome. And? It's called Perry Mason. Oh, and it's Perry Mason. It's Perry Mason. Oh, awesome. And Matthew Rhys is Perry Mason.

Oh, wow. Oh, my God. He's fantastic. John Lithgow's in it, which is crazy. He was just on our show. He's like the nicest fucking person. Yeah, John Lithgow. Matthew Rhys, I don't know, but John Lithgow.

They're both ridiculous. Yeah. Everyone on this show is so nice. And such great characters. It's always so nice. And such great characters. Nice people in show business. It's like, the secret is, you don't have to be this nice. Yeah.

You know? So it's like the people that are just. They're saints. They're just like, oh my God. Yeah. You're kind and you remembered my name. Yeah, yeah. And shit like that, you know?

You're a human being. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so I'm doing that. I'm playing a, this is the thing that I'm playing a preacher in. It's set in the 1930s. Wow. And it's so much fun. Is it, is it like episodic or is it one long story?

So it's a premise rather than a, than a, than a series. It's like one, well, it's like a one, one long case. I see. For this, for this season. And is it meant to, is it meant as a limited series or is it meant to be ongoing? I think it might continue. I don't know. But it's a great character.

Wow. Yeah. And that's cool because, like, that's, you know, Perry Mason is kind of corny. Yeah. The original. Yeah, totally. So it's like one of those things that's like, sure, yeah, this could be, the execution of it. Yeah.

It could be awesome. It's like a movie. Yeah. It's honestly like a movie. And it's a prequel, too. So it's not, you know, he's like figuring out who he is. Oh, he's not Perry Mason. He's not the Perry Mason we know.

The suave, sophisticated. We all know and love. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who never lost a case or whatever. Yeah. Who actually probably, did you know who Perry Mason was before? No. Did you know Perry?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No idea. My dad was like, the theme song's really great. Yeah. I just know her from UHF. What's that? See, there, yeah, yeah. No idea. My dad was like, the theme song's really great. Yeah. I just know it from UHF. What's that? See, there again, that's channels two through, I think it was 11 or maybe 13 or 14. That's VHF, which is very high frequency.

And then UHF was all the kind of like local channels. That's ultra high frequency. Oh, it is. And that was like, maybe it was one, I can't remember where the cutoff was, but it was two different dials on the old TV. And so like, you know, your ABC, NBC, CBS, it'd be like, you know, seven, five, and two.

And then the PBS would be 11 or 13. And then when you get to like 26, like I'm just going from Chicago. Channel 26 was the Spanish language channels, which also would show like the Japanese kid shows, like Johnny Sacco and his magic robot. 32 was WFLD. That was all reruns. That was Brady Bunch, you know, the Brady Bunch and the Partridge family.

And then 44 was old shitty movies. And there was a Bible channel in there in the middle. But all those UHF channels, that was like where you'd see Perry Mason. Perry Mason. Or where you'd see My Three Sons, you know, or whatever, you know. So it's like, it is funny to say, like, it's a prequel see Perry Mason. Perry Mason. Or where you'd see My Three Sons, you know, or whatever, you know. So it's like, it is funny to say, like, it's a prequel to Perry Mason. Like, even I, at my age, I'm like, why do we want this? Like, what am I?

I swear it's good. Oh, it's Perry Mason. I swear it's good. No, no, I'm not, I'm not, I'm saying it's honestly, well, first of all, what does HBO do that's shitty? True. You know what I mean? I agree.

Like, I can't really. I feel like you've got something going. I can't really think. I mean, there's certain things that aren't to my taste. Sure. But it's all fucking high quality stuff. It's crazy. You know?

I never thought I'd get to work for HBO. Yeah, yeah. I was like, that's like a thing that exists over there. Yeah. Well, I've kept you long enough. We need to start wrapping this up. How do we wrap it up? Well, there's two more questions.

There's the- There's two more questions? We answered one question? Yeah, that was where do you come from? Now we're going, where are you going? Where am I going? Yeah, where are you going? Great question. Yeah.

I don't know. Thanks. I ask it to everybody. I love that question. I love that question. I don't have an answer for it. Where do you want to go? What do you want? Again, see, this is like a. I ask it to everybody. I love that question. I don't have an answer for it. Where do you want to go? What do you want?

Again, see, this is like a hard thing for me to say. I know that's a huge thing, but it's also kind of like, as a human being, you got to kind of have a notion of what you're, you know. I guess so, but I also feel like very in tune with this idea of like, I have no idea. Yeah. And I kind of love that. I love that something will come up that I'm not predicting. Yeah. Or that I'm not even dreaming of.

And I couldn't have conceived of this character or this project or this whatever. Yeah, I don't know. I think I need to get better at that. Yeah. At being like, I want this. Yeah, yeah. Because it's hard enough with dinner. Yeah.

It's hard enough with Postmates. Do you think you do that? Do you think? No, go for it. I'm saying you and I'm meaning me. Uh-huh. Do you think that you make yourself available to all of these outside kind of like requests. Yeah.

Like to be this character, to do this project, because you're a little scared to answer what you want. Yes, totally. Like I'm terrified to write. Yeah. I'm terrified to direct. The blank page is the scariest fucking thing in the world. Oh, it's a nightmare. It's so embarrassing.

Directing though, I've done directing. Directing is fun. Yeah. Directing is fun because if you look at it as just, and also too, like I have a lot of experience from doing the Conan show. Yeah. The unseen part of my job on the Conan show is helping produce that show every day. Yeah, amazing. And it's just making decisions.

It's just here's a bit. It needs a new ending. Right. Is this good enough? Nah, it's not. Yeah. So directing is just – you've got all these people in their own departments. Yeah.

And they come up and they say, how do you want this to be? Yeah. What kind of couch do you want? Yeah. Is this wardrobe okay? Yeah. And it's just a matter of having good taste and making choices. Yes.

So directing. Yeah. Be ready for that. Yeah. It's not. I want to do it. Yeah. Yeah.

It's really, really fun. And especially I've just directed commercials. There's a game show aspect to it in that it's beat the clock, right? Beat the clock and don't spend all the money. And you have to on the fly make decisions. We're running out of time. We're not going to have time to shoot that scene. Let's just turn around in this room and shoot that scene on this side of the room. To be so creative. Yeah, just to be like, and like I say, it's like, or just like, we're not going to be able to do that. Right.

That visual joke, let's build that into this bit too. Yes. And it's just, it's thrilling problem solving. And like I say, and there's a beat the clock. It's like, fuck. We've only, only you know in two hours we go into overtime like like a time constraint absolutely Conan like you know that the show has to go out at this you know what I mean you have a limited oh oh oh when he came back

to me to do the tonight show I was like fuck yes uh-huh think of it today and put it out tonight yes right because I had been in development. I had done three sitcoms. I'd been on number one on the call sheet three times and it hadn't worked out. So I'm kind of like, maybe that's not meant to be. Maybe it's not what America really wants of their Andy Richter. So, okay.

You know what I mean? I can- America has spoken. I don't need that. I actually don't like that. Yes. I'm glad that Conan. America has spoken. I don't need. I don't need that. I don't actually don't like that. Yes. I'm glad that Conan is Conan. Yeah.

Conan needs to be Conan. Yeah. He needs to like a show named Andy to me is mortifying. Oh, my God. It's mortifying to me. Why? Too much. Too much.

Too much. I don't want to be the bride at the wedding. You want to be, you want to support and facilitate. I want to be the nice relative, you know, that like can leave whenever he wants. Right. That doesn't have to say hi to everybody. That doesn't have all the attention on them. Yes.

And because when you have all the attention on you, your time is not your own. No, totally. It's not you don't it's it's a it's a giving up of freedom yeah unless you really are getting something out of that attention and i just don't yeah i mean i like attention just fine yeah but is it also more of a collaborative position that you get to be in yes like it's more of a making the thing with someone else yes as opposed to get to be in. Yes. Like it's more of a making the thing with someone else. Yes. As opposed to having to be like, whatever. Yeah.

Oh, it's all about me. Yeah, I know. I'm much more like collaboration. Yeah. And I mean, and as I've looked at, you know, other like television projects to do, like I did a pilot where I definitely want to just be part of an ensemble. Yeah. Yeah.

And I, and I also want to be something that I'm not normally, which is the nice guy or the friend or the slightly dumb guy. Like I did a pilot a couple of years ago where I was the asshole boss. I was like the Dabney Coleman. Oh, fun. It was the fucking best. And it's because I can be a dick. Yeah. And I mean, I know that I can be a good dick.

Yeah. And then I can play it well. And it's something that like in life, goofing around the office, like I can play and people will be like, like, wow, you should be that, you know, like you should be like, yeah, like a corrupt cop. And I'm like, well, fucking write something. I'll be a corrupt cop all day, you know? Would you ever write something for yourself?

I have tried. Yeah. Like I have a pilot, you know. Would you ever write something for yourself? I have tried. Yeah. Like I have a pilot, you know, that I just wrote recently. And just for one reason or another, I think it's really funny. And it's, you know, like unfortunate, like it's something as dumb as that it takes place on a spaceship. But it's not like there's no aliens or anything. It's just like people getting off Earth because Earth is dying.

Yeah. So it's kind of like I was saying it was like Andy Griffith in space. Oh, that's great. I guess there's just no, there's no aliens. Yeah. There's no, you know, you just. It's just space. You might as well be at a mall.

Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. But it just happens to be going, you know, to another planet because this one's dying. I love that. Yeah. But, you know, I take it out and it's like, oh, it's really funny, but we're doing a space thing. You know, there's just a lot of that kind of dumb shit happens.

Everybody's so boring. I know, I know, I know. And it's like, and I kind of get it. Like, okay, yeah, you got a space thing, but, you know. And then you just kind of get used to that sort of perpetual heartbreak. Yeah. Of falling in love with an idea, feeling brave enough to actually actualizing it

and putting on a page and slaving over making it good and working with someone to kind of get at its best. And then really, here's my baby. And then people kind of going like, pfft. Wow. And then you have to eventually be like, my baby died. Because you have to totally love it. Yes.

You have to fully believe in it, fully love it, to commit to it creatively, pitching it, all of that. And you probably have an experience of this probably with Orphan Black. You love it, but you know it's going to die. You know there's an end in store. So you try and galvanize yourself. You try and protect yourself. You try and pull yourself back. And you think, okay, when that went away, that really fucking hurt.

And I'm not going to do that again. This next one, I'm going to be really guarded. And, oh, I like this. This is funny. And then immediately. This is great. Yeah. And then it goes away and you're like, ah, fuck, I did it again.

Ouch. That hurt again. But I don't know're like, ah, fuck, I did it again. Yeah. Ouch. I know. That hurt again. I know. But I don't know how else you can do it. I don't either. I don't know how you can. I have had friends say to me cynically, this script that I wrote that I really liked, it didn't go anywhere.

Yeah. So now I'm going to write something like, I'm going to write a, you know, Big Bang Theory. Or I'm going to write a, you know, big bang theory or I'm going to write a two and a half minute. Right. And I always am like, I can't, I can't do that. No, I can't. I only have to try and do what I like. Because it requires so much of you.

Like I never, I think I'm so daunted to write something because I'm like, I need to love this so deeply for like five years. Yeah. I need to believe in this completely. Yep. For that amount of time. Because you're going to live in it. Because you have to live in it.

And you're also going to like, what happens after two years if you get bored with it? Yeah. I mean, nightmare. This is why I don't have a tattoo. Oh my God. I'm the same fucking way. I don't like anything enough. I was always like, I never, and this is my, I never could think of something that while they're rolling me over in a nursing home bed that I wouldn't go like, oh, fuck, they're seeing it.

Oh, Christ, they're seeing that. Was there ever something? That Motley Crue thing. Yeah, exactly. That lyric. Or whatever. What would it be if you had to? Okay. There was a comic book, and I'm not even a big comic book guy.

And I can't even remember the name of it. But there was this, it was kind of like the thing, like a stone man. And I think it was a one-off, but there is a point in the, in the comic book where he does a cannonball into a part, into a pool at a party to completely empty the pool and ruin the party. And there's a frame of him doing a cannonball in a fetal position. And the way it was drawn, it was intentionally supposed to look like earth

oh that's beautiful so it was like all these kind of multi-layered things and i was really like that's the image yeah cannonball guy made of stone impenetrable guy made of stone representing the earth yeah about to do like ruin the party incredibly yeah ruin the party like a childish destructive ruin the party thing it a childish, destructive, ruin the party thing. It's so many things. But I was always, but I, yeah, but I was kind of like, no one's going to understand the context and I'm not going to want to explain that context to everybody.

Yeah. And I was just like, ah, fuck it. You know, I just never. Is this where it was going to be on your life? I don't, I have no idea. You kept holding your arm. I know. Well, I mean, that seems like the most logical place.

Yeah, yeah. You know, but. A sleeve, a full sleeve. But no, but then I just, I just was never like, oh, you know, I just couldn't. And I know too many people that had tattoos that then got them removed. Which is a nightmare. Oh, it's the worst. Which is worse than anything.

The worst. It's such a long, expensive process. It hurts. It's lasers. Yeah, yeah. I don't even know what they're doing. They're zapping through your skin. And then also as an actor, every time you see somebody in the fucking chair taking an extra 45 minutes.

Which I don't need because I'm already a lady. And so I'm in there for an hour and a half to two hours. But like seeing, like I just worked on a show that had young kids. And there's like this young guy, you know, by young kids I mean like 17, 18. that had young kids and there's like this young guy you know by young kids

I mean like 17, 18 this kid had an extra half hour a day to like cover up his fucking Maori war tattoo on his arm

it's like okay alright dude there you go hope that was worth it I'm gonna get a full face tattoo and just everyone's gonna have to

live with me live with my choice yeah yeah when you really wanna that's when you become a director. The full face tattoo. No tattoos anywhere else. Right, right, right.

Everyone will take me seriously then. That's right. They'll be terrified of me. Yep. Just a brick wall on your face. With two little windows for my eyes. Hello. Right?

Yep. I can commit to that. Well, so you don't know where you're going. No idea. Yeah? No. But that's, you know, that's the great thing, too, is you don't have to know. No, and even if I knew, even if I planned, it would be like, it's never.

Do you see yourself staying in L.A., though? I love it here. Oh, you do? Oh, good. Oh, my God, I love it. Yeah, yeah. I'm so happy here. I like it a lot, too.

Yeah. I don't, you know, I still, I miss green. That's the main thing I miss. But I do, like, it's really comfortable. If you figure out your place in this town, you can live a nice life. You can move here and end up in a part of town that's full of a bunch of fucking phonies and assholes. Totally. And be like, this town's full of phonies and assholes.

Yep. And then you find another neighborhood and it's like, oh, wow. Yeah. This is actually kind of cool. I feel like that was my experience of it. Yeah. Just like different neighborhoods. I've been coming here for like 10 years.

Yeah. And depending where I was, I was completely, totally changed my experience of it. Yeah. Like if I was in a different neighborhood, I would be miserable. Yeah. I've never been sadder than I've ever – L.A. is the saddest I've ever been, but also the happiest I've ever been. Oh, really?

Yeah. Not sad now. Yeah, yeah. Happy now, but in the past. Incidentally, yeah, yeah, yeah. Depressing. Yeah, it's weird because it is a town – like Mark Maron years ago had a great line about, he said, when you look at that layer of smoke above LA, he said, it's not smog, it's vaporized disappointment.

Oh, my God. And it's- It was thick yesterday. Yeah. I was taking pictures of it. Yeah. It was suffocating. It's not as dirty as it used to be.

When I first got out here, it was actual filth. It was actual filth. Yeah. The smog was pretty bad, but, but yeah, it's, it can be a real, you can feel the palpable disappointment in this town, but also it's a, it's a, it's the weather's nice. Yeah. There's a lot of like, you can get by fairly cheaply. You know, I mean, not like, you know, Tulsa, Oklahoma cheaply. But, you know, relatively speaking, you live in the valley, you know, you live in the valley, you live, still decent food. Yeah.

Weather's nice. You got the ocean. You got all kinds of- So many shows. Yeah. So much to see. So much to see. And so many different ethnic things to happen.

So many different sort of ethnic. No, it's a really. And people don't really. Well, the reason people don't think about that much is because there's a lot of people on the fucking west side that never experience it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. You know. Totally.

Like there are people that proudly say, I never go east of La Brea. Well, that's. Suck my butt, guys. Yeah, then you're fucking. You're missing the best part of town. I'm on the east. Yeah, yeah. I love it so much.

It's nice. Yeah. It is, it's nice. It's different and it's, it certainly feels more real. Yeah. So. Fully. Fully.

Well, let's get to the last question. What have you learned? Did people ask you for advice? Do you get like like kind of like. They asked me what I would tell myself. Oh. When I was younger. Because that's the question.

They don't want to. They like don't want my advice. They know you've made terrible mistakes. They're like, what would you change? Yeah, yeah. You should probably have thought to do some different stuff. What advice would you give a baby version of you? Because that's about all you can handle.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What have I learned? I think just trying to learn to – I'm learning. I'm learning to become okay with the total unknown in my work and in my life and in just everything. Did you stress about it at earlier times in your life? Totally. Totally. But at the same time was doing improv.

Yeah. So I had this, like, again, this weird mix of, like, very heady, but was yearning for that freedom. Right. So I don't know. Yeah. Like being comfortable with not knowing. How did that sort of worry about not knowing,

or, you know, about needing to know what the future would bring? Would it manifest itself in certain ways? Anxiety, yeah. Would you make bad choices or, like, choices that you wouldn't make now? Yeah, I mean, I think I would take myself out of situations. I wouldn't dive into something that I didn't know. Like a work thing or just mean social thing. Social work, a moment in a scene where I was like, I can feel myself wanting to do that, but I don't know what that's going to look like.

And that might be so humiliating. Humiliation is like a big embarrassment. I think that's why I revere comedians because there's such an openness to that threat of humiliation that is like so delicious and brave to me. Like I just find it so exciting. It is. Yeah. It's thrilling to watch and it's like very inspiring to live on that, you know.

Because it's, well, the thing that I like about it and the thing that I always, No. Because it's, well, the thing that I like about it and the thing that I always, like I, like one thing that I like about life and one thing that I value in people, and I don't have a good word, a good way of expressing it other than they understand the blood and guts of it. Yeah. fucking sacks of fluid and that like yeah and that like life is just a series of like unpleasant aromas and you know and that and that and you know and base emotions and urges and just yeah and and and it's and that's not like that's actually kind of like fantastic yeah it's kind of thrilling to me that like we're all just you know that it's all just so messy and smelly and sad and hilarious. And, you know, and that the notion of kind of a poise or a composure to me is just like graveyard whistling when it's like, if you get scared, you know, you're in the fucking graveyard, get scared, stop the whistling, you know, graveyard whistle. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's so true.

I think as an actor, that's what I'm always striving to find is that place of like total acceptance of all of that stuff, which is like, we've been talking about when you have those outside eyes going like, but look more like this or be more like this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like a bizarre place to do it maybe. Yeah, yeah.

To search for it. But also I think it is when it's at its best. Yeah. That's like what it, it looks like you have a tattoo now because you have a paper clip. That's pretty cool. That is. You get a little weird heart thing.

I just, I was playing with a purple paper clip and it got stuck to my forearm. Yeah, no, I think that is, yeah, I think that that is, I got flummoxed by the purple paper clip. I don't remember what I'm saying. The humanity. Yeah. Not being above humanity. Right, right, right.

I do think, yeah, that's something to strive for, you know? it's something to strive for, you know? But I think that's why all those other weird, the things like awards or the things like whatever, interviews even. Yeah, yeah. It's like this other world. Yeah, yeah. That feels so disconnected sometimes from.

Yeah. I remember what I was going to say is that the sort of the two sides of this, again, like, you know, the parallel ends of this kind of graph of not caring and just kind of letting it all hang out and being concerned about the way you're being perceived. Like, I don't think that that's it. That's like the tension between that is never ending. Yeah. Because as much as I can think, like, I don't give a fuck.

And I mean, as time has gone on, I truly do. Like, I feel like one of my minor superpowers is not giving a fuck in lots and lots of situations. Yeah. And I'm so happy that I have acquired that skill. But there again, I will look on fucking Twitter. I'll go into some corner of Twitter and feel like, oh, my God. Yes. They're all saying terrible things about me.

And it's like, and there's all kinds of shit people can say that doesn't, like, people can call me fat. They can call me a loser. They can say, like, oh, your show's all failed. All fucking day. Yeah. Don't fucking care. But there's, like, a couple of things that they can say about me that it's like, oh. I had that recently with Network, actually.

I stupidly read my reviews the day after opening. Oh, yeah. Like a fucking dummy. Because I was like, I bet these are going to be great. Right, right, right. They saw through me so hard. They saw the thing that I was most terrified of being. Somebody wrote about me something about, it's like she's a dorky kid.

And I was like, boom. Like, so seen for exactly who I am, let's be honest. Yeah. But, like, who I could not be in that role in my head. Right, right, right. Because it was, like, Diana Christensen played by Faye Dunaway. Sure, of course. Sexiest person on the planet.

Whatever, they hired me. But reading that, and that actually, I learned a lot getting back on stage after that. Yeah. Like, that night. Right, you gotta. I had to. And I had to be, like, as big and as, like, exposed,

you know, for the next eight months, holding that thing in me that was like, this is what they're saying. That's a shitty thing to say in a review though because – Yeah. Are they saying – were they saying it as like it's a casting issue or were they saying that it's like – It was a lot. It was like we're not sure if it's the this or the that, but she kind of comes off as a dorky kid. And I was like – and I think because it's innate to me, it is kind of true.

And I don't think it's, I think it is a shitty thing to say. Reviews are whatever. Like, seriously, whatever. Right, right. But. And also, get on stage, motherfucker. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Like, you're sitting in this dark space and you can just kind of say whatever. Right. About one performance one night of eight months. Yeah. But getting back on stage and, like, standing in it and, like, allowing that to be true. Right. And not fighting that. Yeah, yeah.

This was a big thing I learned, too, was just, like, getting back up. Yeah, yeah. After falling down, you know. Yeah. Yeah, tough. Well falling down, you know. Yeah. Yeah, tough. Well, good for you. Well, we'll see. Shit, that would, yeah, that's.

It was eviscerated. Yeah, that's rough. I wanted to make like a little collage of like all the things people said. Yeah. As like a kind of. It's just something to unfold on the subway and go like, I don't mind. I love it. I'm going to get tattooed on my body.

I'm going to press on this rotten tooth. That's what I should do. Oh, I had a tattoo of all your bad reviews. A dorky kid right across your shoulders. Oh, across your face. Right across my mouth. Oh, nice, nice. Where the dork stuff comes out.

Or a tramp stamp. A tramp stamp? A dorky kid tramp stamp. This is going to be great for me. That'll be great for me. You know what you're getting into. And have the quotes and then the person's name like in little text underneath. And just like a bio.

Just a short bio. I'll get them to write a short bio. I love it. All right. Well, this has been really great. We've talked a long time. Longer than, I mean, I always, I don't want to waste people's time. But this has been really fun. Thank you so a long time. Longer than, I mean, I always, I don't want to waste people's time. But this has been really fun.

Thank you so much for having me. You're welcome. And thanks for coming out when you're not feeling so good. Hey. Yeah. Hopefully you don't get it. I won't. I won't.

I'm, you know, I'm incredible. I'm also like a, you know, I'm always low level, not feeling great. So whatever. No, I was telling you. I was telling you before this, you know, from having children. Oh, my God. Whenever anybody's, because you i was telling you it before this you know from having children whenever anybody's because you didn't you like gave me a fist bump rather than a shake hand and i was like well i'm kind of not feeling that great either but i would have shook your hand because i just having kids it's like yeah once somebody like sneezes in your face every other

day yeah for 12, for 12 years. You're like, you know what? This whole notion of like germ-proofing yourself is a pretension. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We live in a fucking barnyard and we might as well get used to it. Well, Tatiana, thank you so much. Thank you.

And we will be back again next week with more gold. The Three Questions with Andy Richter is a Team Coco and Earwolf production. It's produced by me, Kevin Bartelt, executive produced by Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Chris Bannon and Colin Anderson at Earwolf. Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, associate produced by Jen Samples and Galit Sahayek, and engineered by Will Becton. And if you haven't already, make sure to rate and review The Three Questions with Andy Richter on Apple Podcasts. This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf.