The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Tawny Newsome

Episode Date: November 23, 2021

Actor and musician Tawny Newsome joins Andy Richter to talk about growing up in Northern California, performing in Chicago, doing music and comedy, and more. Check Tawny out on “True Story” on Netflix starting 11/24!

hello podcast world this is andy richter and you have tuned into another edition of the three questions and i am very excited to have uh the lovely talented presence of tawny newsome on the show today the very funny comedian and actress and singer and bon vivant uh outdoor enthusiast uh you're very outdoorsy right i am i'm currently indoors but i like i do like be outdoors. I haven't done a lot of outdoors, outdoors recordings yet. Well, no, but I mean, I mean, because I, you know, I follow you on all the socials and, and you camp a lot. You're, you're like one of those very camping and hiking and, you know, lots of pictures of you out in the middle of nowhere. Have you always been that way? I think so. Yeah. I grew up in Northern California

and my mom was always taking me on a little hike or a little climb or a little camp. And I moved to Chicago and lived there for a long time. And the only, you know, there's not a lot of outside in the Midwest. Like you get like three months a year and then you still have to drive five hours to go to Starved Rock or whatever the fuck

and walk on some planks for a while. So my husband and I, we would travel. And because we didn't have a lot of money, I was like, well, if we're going to pay all this for a plane ticket, we got to like camp and do like cheap things, like walking in the mountains, which is almost free. So it was kind of, yeah, I did it as a kid, but it was sort of born out of necessity of like,

well, I want to travel and see cool places, but I can't afford to spend all of the money all of the time. On hotels. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I get that. That's great. Do you like to be outside? I do like to be outside, but I like to sleep in a bed and poop on a toilet.

On it? Well, you know, sitting on it while pooping. Not on the toilet. I mean, unless I'm really angry at someone, you know, like a restaurant or, you know, a CVS. Yeah, that's how you get back at them. That's my letter to the editor. No, I have, I mean, I have camped, but I just, you know, I don't, and I don don't I've never like slept the night in a tent. But I have a couple of times I used to have a Toyota pickup truck and I have slept in the back of the pickup truck in camping. And it was just miserable.

I just was I could not. I was going to say that's so cool. It was it's beautiful for a while. But then in the sleep, when you finally do go to sleep, I found every, like there would be, you know, you'd hear literally animals walking around. You don't know what it is, you know, it's like, but there would be animals walking within 10 feet of the truck and it would wake me up and I'd be like, is that a mountain lion or a raccoon, you know? It's a fair question. And I just, so yeah, I like, I mean, I've taken my kids and, you know, we have gone camping kind of, but there's like a little cabin to sleep in.

Like, and I still feel like that's, you're still kind of, you go outdoors, but at least you get to go and sleep in a bed. It is. I don't believe in the shaming of like, you have to be sleeping on a hard thing. No, I like just like when people can get outside in a way that makes them comfortable. Yeah, yeah. I love a cabin.

Yeah. And I also, too, you know, the mountains, I'm from Illinois, so it's like the exact opposite. Whereas I'm much more comfortable in kind of green sort of, you know, woodsy, lakey kind of Midwest sort of you know woodsy lakey kind of midwestern wilderness the mountains are i don't know what to do with them you know i i i don't uh and it's too dusty here you know like i just i miss green i miss i miss like just the relentless green of of Midwest where like if you, you know, you leave something for 10 minutes and it just gets overgrown. Whereas here, you leave something for 10 minutes and it turns to dust. You have beef jerky. Yes, exactly.

So where from Northern California are you? I'm from a town called Vacaville. When I was a kid, I used to be like, it's right outside San Francisco because I felt like that made it sound cool. But it's like 45 minutes from both San Francisco and Sacramento. It's kind of close to Napa, which makes it sound cool,

but it's just a deeply, I mean, you're from Illinois. It's like an Aurora, Illinois. It's one of those towns where it's like, we have a giant Target. We had a lot of like, we had a Chili's, you know, we had a lot of big, big box stores and chain restaurants and everyone worked in San Francisco. I imagine kind of agricultural or started out being agricultural. Yeah, yeah.

Very, very. Yeah. There's still like really green spaces around it that are all just like alfalfa fields and oat and stuff like that yeah yeah yeah they're i mean that whole you know you get past the great you know whatever baker's field and it's just like 70 of the food in the country comes from here yeah from there what do they call it the the sun basket do i make that up it's like i don't know i don't know time for growing all the food yeah yeah something like that Something like that. But I mean, well, what, I mean, how was it growing up there?

Did you know what kind of, is it like a little, is it, it's big enough that you feel like you're kind of, it's not like, you know, everybody, right. It's, it's still enough where it's kind of. Yeah. You, you really don't know everybody ever. So my dad's family lived there from, you know, the 60s or late 50s, maybe. And they kind of knew everybody back then. And so through them, like growing up, I knew a lot of families, but not like, no, when I was in high school there, I think there was like 90,000 people in the town and everyone works in San Francisco and everyone's kind of a transplant. So it doesn't have like a small town feel.

But, you know, my parents are split. And so my mom's house, I lived on a ranch in a smaller enclave called Allendale, which was just like a rural non-town. It was just like the, it was like the orange rind of, of a town. It was just like the it was like the orange rind of of a town just like i lived in

the peel of california but we had horses and we had like a ranch and we kind of knew the people in our little community but i don't know i i also think i come from kind of paranoid separatist parents who were like don't talk to anybody don't talk to these people oh really do you feel that way yeah oh yeah yeah it's stuck with me too i live in in a rural area now and i don't, don't talk to anybody. Don't talk to these people. Oh, really? Do you feel that way? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's stuck with me, too. I live in a rural area now, and I don't talk to anybody. We know one neighbor, and the rest of them, I'm like, they don't need to know me.

Is it a diverse area in any way, or is it pretty white? Where I am now? No, where? Oh, Vacaville? Up there. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Vacaville was super Latinx and super Asian. When my dad's family moved there, they were one of six Black families, or? Oh, Vacaville? Up there. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Vacaville was super Latinx and super Asian.

Not a lot. Like, when my dad's family moved there, they were one of six Black families, or maybe seven, I think. Wow. In the 60s. And there are more, but not a ton. Yeah, yeah. My high school was really, really diverse, but not very Black. Yeah, yeah.

And was that, I mean, what was it that your parents instilled in you? Like, why kind of stay away from these people? What was it about the people? They were conservative? They were, or were they just sort of generally, generally like skeptical, like paranoid people? You know? Yeah, I think both. It's definitely like a, for being so close to the Bay Area, it's a conservative town for sure.

So my dad for sure was like, don't talk to these white people. You can not trust them. Meanwhile, I'm like, then why did you choose to live here your whole life and my whole life? But, you know, my mom's white and I don't think she was. She's a bit more centrist. And I don't think she was like thinking of it in those terms. I think they're both just like, you just can't trust folks and you don't need to know anyone. And, you know, we have all we need and we'll make our

friendships and our coworkers and stuff. But outside of that, it's not like a friendly, I think that comes a little bit from the Bay Area too. Like there's not like a wave to your neighbors kind of vibe. I don't know why I hear that a lot about like Seattle and like the Pacific Northwest. So maybe there's some kind of regional, you know, I moved to Illinois and in Chicago, I felt like whether it was sincere or not, everybody's super friendly. Don't you feel that way in Illinois? Absolutely. Absolutely.

Like, and as you get, well, I mean, it's all predicated on, on you. You're like, I was, I was about to say like in, in the, in the small, cause I grew up in a town called Yorkville, which like you said, you said Aurora, which was, that was our town. Like when you went into town and I lived, it was an hour drive from, from Chicago, but it might as well have been three, you know, because when we would go into town, it would be Aurora, which is a, you know, sort of medium-sized Midwestern city that for a while was very thriving and had industry and stuff. It was on a river and, you know, it was like when a river actually mattered, you know, the actual industry of a town. A river? Yeah. Holy cow.

Yeah. We can make mills, you know, like we can use the water to power things. Right. Our logs can travel now. But it was, but, you know, and it fell into, you know, decay and disrepair and the, you know, empty downtown and stuff like that. So, but I'm from Yorkville and you could say, oh, you go into the coffee shop and everybody's friendly and they want to talk to you. But that is, of course, probably if you're white, you know, like it's like, it's not, it wouldn't be the same for, you know, like you said, Latinx people or, or black people or Asian people. I mean, I don't think so. I don't know what it is now, but I can certainly say back then. And there were

still, there's still in rural areas where you would go as a white stranger and still get kind of scowls, you know. Yeah. But it's, that's, but there's. You look too city. I don't. You look too lefty city. Yeah. Or like just who, or just we don't ever see anybody unfamiliar faces.

And, you know, and like, so we're like, well, what the hell are you doing here? And it might not be hostile. It might just be, you know, baff uh and and i'm interpreting it as such but i yeah that's why i love chicago so much because chicago was so like chicago is the first place where i was like oh there's like not only are there a ton of black people but they're like doing things like you know you go to a bank and like you need to see the manager of the bank because your account's locked or something and that is a black person like you're talking to black people in positions of like not even just power but just like everyday middle class life

that i so was not used to there were a couple of like very wealthy black folk actually that owned like big ranches in my area um and then there were like, you know, not as well to do folks. So Chicago, I was like, oh my God, here we are just like being, it's not like, oh, there's the special guy who owns the Chevy dealership. Speaking of a very specific black Vacaville family. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I always wished we were, because I'm like, man, you guys got everything. You got horses, you got the car dealership. You figured it out. Yeah. You can go, yeah. You can travel however you want.

Yeah. Horses, cars. Well, I mean, I've heard. I can't. I mean, I can't remember. I think I've heard a couple of different black entertainers. I think maybe Chappelle was one of them. Say, I went to Africa and I just couldn't get over it.

Like, everybody's black. Like, oh, my God, I can't believe it. And I, you know. My friend always says, we're on the money. Like, you go to Ghana and she's like, we're on the fucking money. When did you see that? And I was like, oh, yeah. That's right.

We're not on any money. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, growing up in a pretty lily white area, because, I mean, when our county got our first black family, they were two towns over. Everybody knew. Like, we have a black family. And it wasn't like, oh, we got a black family. It was like, we have a black family. You know, like, look at us.

You know, and it's like 1976, and we're like, hooray. Like you got the first refrigerator. Finally. Yeah, and again, too, it's an hour outside of Chicago and it just took that long. And it was funny, too, because then shortly there, a few different families moved in after that. And I mean, it's ridiculous that you could, you know, like there was a census, an unofficial census of the black people who move in. and unofficial census of the black people who move in. And in our neighboring town,

I had one of my favorite teachers taught there and at our school, she split her time. And she said that this black family had moved in and they had three sons and they were all like tall. And the whole town was like salivating over the notion of like, all right, we have some athletes. And they were nerds. They were like genius book nerds, you know, and like absolutely unable to play basketball,

which is, it's so funny. Well, that was fully me because I'm the oldest cousin. So of the Newsomes, all my dad's siblings were all athletes and they all went to Vacaville High. My uncle played pro ball. He still, he works for the Newsomes, all my dad's siblings were all athletes. And they all went to Vacaville High. My uncle played pro ball. He still, he works for the Ravens, but he played for the Cleveland Browns. My dad was like a wrestling and basketball guy. My uncle was like a wrestling guy.

Another one was a track star. My aunt was a track star. So when I showed up at Vacaville High for freshman orientation, they still had, you know, my youngest aunt is only like 11 years older than me. So, and even my dad is like pretty young. So they still had all their records on the wall. You just see like Newsome records for like wrestling and blah, blah. And I'm an only child and I'm the oldest like cousin. So I walk in and these, after the orientation, they get all of our names and stuff. And these coaches are coming up to me afterwards. They're like, ah, finally, this generation's coming through.

The Newsom's all right. So we're going to get you signed up for basketball. We're going to get you signed up for track, blah, blah, blah. And I literally just looked at one and I was like, where's the drama club? And their faces just fell. I'm so sorry, man. What a waste. Yeah.

What a waste. No, I mean, when I stopped playing football because i'm large i i actually had a coach say what a waste what a way like like fuck you man it's my life it's and it's you know i need to do what i want man yeah it's my brain i don't want it rattled around um also i'm like fuck you there's plenty of other ways I'm wasting my life. You don't get to decide what I'm wasting. You don't get to decide how I'm wasteful. And also, you're tall, too. So I bet that was even more, you know, like, oh, here she comes.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. They just, yeah. Especially like in the smaller town, sports is like the main commodity. It's, you know, it's. When I did stop playing football, i did kind of like feel there was like a little bit of ostracized you know i went and got a job at the grocery store instead and and yeah there was a little bit of ostracization about that you know like oh okay you know you know which is fine because again, like if we had, I did, I quit. No, I quit because after

my sophomore year, at the end of my sophomore year, they got a new varsity coach and that coach wanted everyone to come in for voluntary strengthening and conditioning sessions five days a week for two hours a day in the summer. And, and I was like, what? And, and he, in this meeting said, now he said the IHSA, which is the Illinois high school athletic, whatever, they won't let us have practices. Cause there was a certain, you know, it's a good day in August that you could could start having practice for football like you couldn't practice all you know around the clock so they could have voluntary so these are voluntary but i think you all know what voluntary means and all these guys are like ha ha ha ha and i was like no i'm not no i went home and i told my mom and my stepdad and god bless him i said i yeah, he wants us to come in five days a week.

You know, from like four to six, you know, and run sprints and lift weights. And both of them said, well, you're going to quit, aren't you? I was like, yes. I was like, oh, thank you. Thank you. So, I mean, I still, I played, I played on the tennis team in the spring, you know, but I mean, our tennis team was like, you know, I mean, I don't think we ever learned top spin. It was more like ping pong, but on a larger scale, you know? Yeah. I hope no one's listening, Andy. They'll be crushed.

They'll think they're like, man, I had a tennis career in high school. We were great. And then they hear this and they're like, we're trash. Wait a minute. So you're an only child. I am, yeah. Yeah. And how do you feel about that?

Like, do you come away feel, I mean, do you think about it? Do you wish you'd had siblings? Do you? Yeah, there's definitely times when I've gone back and forth. I mean, the truth is, I don't know how else it could be. But I do feel a little like, because I'm a Star Trek person, I always put it like when Data from The Next Generation is like learning traits about humanity where he's like, ah, this is laughter.

I feel like that when I look at people talking to their sisters and brothers a way I didn't know was possible. I'm like, huh, this is a sibling relationship. Fascinating. So like some of that stuff I feel like left out of a little bit.

Whenever I get cast to have like a sister or brother in like a show, I feel like that's the most unrealistic acting I do because I'm just like, I don't know. I don't know how you act with one of these. Right, right, right. Well, I mean, did it hurt? I mean, you learned how to sort of like, was it a barrier like with relationships, whether they were platonic or romantic or something that you hadn't, you know, had people your age that you had to sort of live with? Yeah, maybe, because, you know, a lot of my friends do tend to be a little older than me.

So maybe I got that from, I've never thought about this, but maybe I got that from constantly having to relate to kind of those aunts and uncles I told you about or my parents. And my parents now, we have like a really good friendship. And it feels very comfortable to be friends with people their age as well. So, yeah, maybe that's from not having a ton of folks my age running around. I don't know. age running around yeah i don't know yeah because i know i mean i know only children who who on one hand lament not having siblings and then others that are like no i liked it i liked that like me and my parents were kind of like a little team and that you know they're they didn't have to split their attention to anyone else um and those fuckers are megalomaniacs those ones uh you know what i think i did like

because i know i don't do well with it now is i liked that like as a kid as a teen whatever if i was having a bad day my parents could decide how to deal with it whether they wanted to deal with me or not um and you know and they were split so this is like two households and then i had like step parents too but there was no one in my life where if they were having a bad day, but I was having a good one that they were going to like bring the vibe down. Like we're not at the zoo and my little brother's melting down. So now I get my day ruined. Like I didn't have any of that. Right, right, right. Well that, yeah, that, yeah, that is nice.

You do get used to that. And that, you know, I think, I think if you come from lots of people, you, you consciously strive to not have to have to deal and that you know i think i think if you come from lots of people you you consciously strive to not have to have to deal with that and then you end up you know probably seeking out that kind of subconsciously seeking out like you know like oh i hate all this all these attachments and all this stress you have to feel about other people and then you are drawn to it all you know throughout the rest of your life like hello improv let me find a group right exactly familial uh weirdos that we can take out all of our oh no i'm with on stage i you know because like for me i uh you know my my, my issues are that I'm a codependent. Like I just, I mean, not like I, you know, I help people be alcoholics, but I mean, I live, and I can say I live a little too much for other people.

You know, like, and I was, you know, I was the middle child. I had an older brother and younger twin brother and sister so i'm i ended up being the de facto middle because the the younger ones were you know and i mean they're the same age and nine years younger than me and so the keeper of morale and taking care of everybody and making sure everybody's happy and kind of you know not not knowing like you know, not, not knowing, like, you know, like, I still have the issue of like, what do I want to do? And then I kind of like, well, if I wait around long enough, someone needier than me will speak up and say, I know what we need to do. And I'll go, okay, yeah, I'll do that. You know? Oh, I kind of like that.

Hello, talk show sidekick. Hello, talk show sidekick. And I mean, I feel like, yeah, I don't know. And I watched you for many, many years. And I don't think needy was ever like a word that crossed my mind. Well, it's yeah. I mean, no, I mean, not I'm not I'm not needy. I like tend to service needy people. You know, I see what you're saying.

Yeah, yeah. Like, I'm sort of like, well, like, I don't know what I want. And then there'll be a voice like, well, I'll tell you what I want, you know? Like, oh, okay. All right. Let's do that. And it's like, it's, it's, it's not great, but yet I go into improv. You know what I mean? Like, I'm like, oh, I'm tired of servicing other people i'm tired of like never figuring out what i want out of life i'll do improv like i'll i'll be a talk show sidekick i'll you know i'll you know there's other there's other areas of my life i can't really that i can't just throw out like that but uh but that it was a similar kind of thing where i

i'm like okay yeah let's do that. And here I end up, I'm 55 years old and I'm still kind of like, I really should figure out what I want to do. I really should figure out what I want. But like improv, I still to this day when people say, and I kind of dabble in standup every now and then, but people will say like, you don't want to do standup? And I'd say, I don stand-up every now and then. But people will say, like, you don't want to do stand-up. And I say, I don't like being on stage by myself. And I really, truly don't. I don't understand the, like, juice that people get from standing by themselves on stage in front of a bunch of strangers that you can't even really see because they're sitting in the dark.

And then hearing them laugh and going, ha-ha. I'm always like, ugh. You know, like, oh, that just feels weird. I don't, I don't. Yeah. I like, you know, I've said this before, like on the Conan show for years, the audience's laughter, it's nice. It's nice. And I like it.

And I understand it pays the bills. But the laughter that I was looking for was like the cameramen because they've seen all my shit. You're collaborators for sure. Yeah. Well, and it's just, well, it also too, if I can surprise them, because like I say, they know, they've heard it all from me. If I can surprise them and make them laugh, I'm like, yeah, you know, like that's what I want. I want, you know, laughter from people I know.

Yeah. There was a, we had a longtime stage manager at Second City. I was there for like five or six years. And his name was Craig Taylor. And he'd been there, I think, 38, maybe 39 years. And he had seen it all. He had seen it all. And people had all these nicknames for him.

They'd call him Lights. They'd call him Dr. Out because he was the guy pulling the lights on the improv set. So he knew when a blow was coming coming he knew exactly when to pull it it's like he he'd seen so much comedy so much specific second city improv comedy on that specific stage with all of those audiences that he just knew it so well so anytime he would come backstage after every show but anytime he would pull you aside and be like you you know, Tony, that bit you did about the guy in the canoe, that was funny. It was like somebody had given you a lump of gold. You're like, oh, my God, CT thought I was funny.

Exactly. So, yeah, I identify. Yeah. So, were you always theatrical? Like, even as a little kid, were you drawn to acting and performing and stuff? I'd love to be like, no, I just stumbled into it. But the truth is there are full on pictures of me like performing all of Les Mis in front of like a group full of confused black adults at Christmas. Like there's no chance I wasn't very confident and very happy to perform.

confident and very happy to perform. One memory that haunts me is I got really into like jazz singing for a couple years when I was like, I don't know, 13, like 12 or 13. I had like some choir teacher that was like, you know what, you should sing as jazz. And so at some family party, we were in Oakland and my dad was like, oh yeah, Tawny's gotten into like jazz singing. And this guy who lived there was like, well, I play a little alto sax. And my dad's like, you guys should duet. Now, a 13-year-old and an alto sax

have no business performing together. There's just no way. In a living room of a cramped little like brownstone house, is that going to sound good? But we tried to sing, we tried to do in a sentimental mood. And I don't think, I think maybe i had picked

a key i think maybe there was something happening with like you know brass is in like concert key and i probably had plucked it out on a piano or something so i think we were just perpetually offset the whole time just trying to warble together and i just remember the tepid claps of the parents and then the worst part was the girl who there, who was kind of my age, I was maybe 12, but she was like 16. So I thought she was so cool. She lived in Oakland. She came into the room to see what was going on.

She watched for two seconds. Her friend walked up behind her and she goes, let's go. And just turned around. So I was like, oh, she's watching this sad scene of this man warbling on a saxophone, trying to find this 13 year old fake jazz singer

oh uh well i learned how to bomb early so right oh that's that's that that's one of the things why like uh i also don't like stand-up is because i know having to get good at it means failing alone like it's one thing to fail on stage when you can go back and there's five other people to go like, man, that sucked. But when it's just you, you're like, oh my God,

they pulled down my pants and laughed at what they saw. Why did they harm me? When there's other people, you can almost even kind of go like, that audience was wild, huh? Like it's their fault. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Oh boy, that was a lousy crowd, you know? Yeah. So in high school,

I mean, did you have did you have a outlet for that? Like, was there a pretty good theater program? And I don't know that it was good, but we did it. Yeah. Yeah. We were kind of living in the shadow of this other high school in town, our rival high school. And the only way, they didn't know we were their rivals, but this other high school called- Yeah, that's usually how it works. Yeah, Wilsey Wood. And they had all these, like, they were an arts-focused kind. They were a public school, but they had a lot of, like, artistic things and cool teachers that had come from San Francisco and New York City and were teaching cool musical

theater classes there. And so we just always felt like we were the drama kids at a sports school. So our shows were kind of lackluster, our talent pool, you know, we'd lose our Billy, what's his name? Billy Bigelow from Carousel was like the star quarterback. So we like lost him during rehearsals to go play football. So there was all this stuff where I was like the star quarterback. So we like lost him during rehearsals to go play football. So there was all this stuff where I was like, it was just very like underdog syndrome, but you know, it was a,

it was a place to do it. There was also a community theater in town that I would try and go audition for. I remember auditioning for Pippin at 13 and they were like, you are too young, but congrats. Keep going. So did, did you go to college then?

Yeah, so I went to DePaul, yeah, for theater school. Oh, you went to Chicago. That was, yeah. Yeah. And how come DePaul? You know, I think I had applied at a lot of like... Love the Catholic church. Yeah, I love nuns.

I love the church. I was like, how do I get close to nuns, but like with textbooks in my hand? No, I think it was because I wanted like a conservatory, like an arts-focused conservatory, not just a BA. For whatever reason, I was like, I need a BFA because I need to definitely not have a fallback plan. So, I applied to Tisch, Juilliard, which was ridiculous. That audition process was so, I don't know what I was thinking. And then Boston Conserve, I think. Yeah. And just DePaul was the one that you'd like the most. They gave me money. They gave me money.

Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah. I mean, Juilliard and Tisch were like, please don't call us again. But I feel like Boston and Carnegie Mellon were like, sure, you could come here for zero dollars. You're just going to have to give us all your money. And DePaul was like, we'll give you some money. Oh, that's nice. Well, and also you got to go to school in Chicago, which is – Yeah.

Chicago is an awesome town. It's a great place. It's my favorite. Yeah, it really is great. And were you focusing on comedy i mean did you did you like comedy before you started before you were in chicago or i really did like comedy before you know my friends and i we would watch snl or we would watch the state or stella all those guys a lot and we always felt like we were trying to dig into the the alt comedy scene as teens like

not quite understanding uh how to how to pursue that ourselves because there wasn't like a i wasn't aware of like oh you could go take classes at second city or io or whatever in my head i was like well i have to like be an actor and i have to do theater so i guess that means like going to a real theater school. And DePaul is very serious. They take themselves very seriously. And I don't know that I was gunning for a comedy career, but I think if you asked my instructors there, they'd be like, oh yeah, that's what you were trying to do. Because I was just constantly,

it's like I never had like a class clown issue in high school, but for some reason in college, I think because I was just bucking against the extreme self-importance of this acting school. So I was always kind of taking the piss a little bit. I can see that, yeah. Because I only took a couple of acting classes, and just the pretense and the silly. I just was like, I always think back to Charles Grodin, who's a curmudgeon for sure. But he talked in a book that he wrote about his early acting days. Like Stella Adler and these amazing conservatories.

And they would give exercises and he would go why like why like you know like be a tree why why why am i being a tree and he would like kind of refuse to do it because they could yeah and they could never give him an answer as to like i mean you can sort of vaguely say well it's to get you out of your head and just kind of like make you not you know not get you to make different choices yeah and also a lot of it is just to submit like to submit to the text to submit to a director to just like there's a lot of yeah there's a lot of like mind control like breaking down your individualism a little bit yeah but here's the thing though what i realize now is that that gave me such a foundation to do to be in comedy but to do harder work that you know a lot of my

friends who are in comedy who just kind of came up through comedy don't always have the tools to you know not like i'm some fucking great actor or whatever but it did make me feel like oh shit like i went through all that bullshit so that i don't there's never a script i get that i'm like oh i feel a little outpaced by this i feel like i can figure it out or i have the tools to figure it out and i do think it came from that very intensive very annoying theater school so yeah i gotta give it to them it you know i paid a lot of fucking money even after they gave me money i paid a lot of money to basically be like, all right, fine. You guys, you have some good things to say.

Right, right, right. And were you in a lot of shows? I mean, is that part of it? Do you put on shows? No. Are you constantly? No. They're assholes.

No, they're assholes. And they don't put you in things unless you're like their star pupil. But here's what I want to say. If you go into a theater school and you're already great and they're putting you on the stage, then I think you're not actually learning. You're not actually there to do what they need you to do, which is that breaking down, pulling down your habits, teaching you how to rebuild a little bit. Because I was not considered good. So I didn't get roles. I didn't get to really like, I didn't really get to like show my stuff. And the who did well i mean to be honest the people who did are not

acting now so i'm like i feel like they peaked i feel like they showed up there ready to go fresh with their you know with their high school talent and were great at the time and maybe didn't like do the thing we were all there to do i don don't know. Yeah, yeah. They also cut us. They reduced our school. You start with 50 and you get reduced down to 20. Oh, right, right. I've heard that about those conservatory kind of things. It's brutal. It's awful, you know.

I think it was Joel Kim Booster was on the show and he was in a conservatory and then got kicked out of it so that he went from BFA to BA. And he was like, you know, it felt awful at the time, but it ended up being great. Yeah. You know, he ended up like he got to then go study other things. I mean, my son's in art school and he was, he's decided, and I think it's a real wise decision to not go for a BFA because he's like, I want a college life. I don't want to sit

in a studio and paint like all the time. And that's, and you know, I would take him on college tours and they'd be like, oh yeah, if you come here, you're going to be painting all the time. The workload is unbelievable. Yeah. You won't be, you won't be doing anything but sitting in here painting. And he was like, I don't want that. And I'm like, no, I don't want you to have that either because I want him to have fun. I mean, I want him to have fun all the time. I'm probably not like, I don't know if that's a way I'm a bad dad, but I'm kind of like, none of it really matters. It's like, you of it really matters. You know, it's like, you know, you'll figure it out. And, you know, and I don't know if you want to be,

if you want to wait tables, you can make a living waiting tables and you can be happy. You know, none of it matters that much. So. It doesn't matter as long as you're happy. And as long as you feel like you have enough structure for what you want to do, because that was my criticism of DePaul and most art school. I had other friends in other schools at the time. And I think that has changed a lot now because they realize like, ooh, we got to teach these kids to be hustlers. Because what I didn't learn until, really until I got out of school

and started doing like more theater and comedy stuff and found Second City was that I needed to learn, they needed to teach us how to be freelancers. They needed to teach us how to be disciplined, like artists and hustle and make money and, you know, sell ourselves and all that stuff. And they were just so focused on the craft and the work that we didn't learn

how to like, you know, I don't know, find an accountant. Right. Right. We needed that real life stuff. And I think a lot of artists,

because we're, if you have an artist temperament, you're drawn to a freelance lifestyle, but you are the worst person to be managing your own time. Yes. And money. And money. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, they're definitely.

Every single creative school like that should also teach you about some kind of money management. Yeah. Because, although I don't even know if it's possible, like budgeting when you're freelance, because I kind of started, I went to film school in Chicago at Columbia College and then started working in production and in productions freelance. So like I started out working freelance and I really responded to freelance. I liked the constant change. But the notion of budgeting is just, because you don't know, you work for three weeks and then you don't work for

a month and then you work for two weeks and then you don't work for a week and then you work two months. You know, I mean, it just, there's no way to say like, well, I could only spend this amount of money this month because you know, like, I don't know where the next money's coming from, you know? I know even now, even now now in Hollywood like everyone understands that that's how our jobs work I still had like a money management guy say to me like so how much do you make a year and I was like I don't know yeah talking about who knows yeah right right right it all depends question yeah yeah yeah it's uh it is it's it's a it's a very strange life and i also find too you you know and i i don't know how if you found this but like when you because a i was like i

didn't really care that much about doing theater i you know i went to film school and in my head i really did want to be an actor but i wanted to be a film actor and I you know and actually film school was a good place for that because there's a bunch of film students making films and they don't know actors and you're and if you're if you're halfway decent you get people to be you get known as like you know I was in a bunch of short films and then and I was kind of known as like that guy can act. So, you know. Yeah. That guy will do our project solid and be good to work with. And I mean, that's like a huge education too, is like teaching you how to have a good reputation and be like good to work with. Absolutely. And I'm, and, you know, and being on set, that was it.

It was like, well, I learned so much more from working on television commercials, you know, getting people coffee and loading trucks. getting people coffee and loading trucks learning how to be on set is like a huge thing that I don't think they can teach you at college you have to go get a job and then being on set as an actor isn't even

that's like an even sort of a step up on this mountain of weird knowledge that you just have to get used to, you know, being in this environment. Because it's, you know, I've talked about it before. The first paid acting job I had was in a cable movie, and it was in a scene opposite Swoozie Kurtz and Bo Bridges.

I didn't know what the fuck I was doing. You know, I didn't have, I just had to kind of like be quiet and like, oh, and kind of. Is this where I stand or? Yeah. And then, and then kind of just, you know, wait and sort of, you know, sort of like you could feel the hint of like, oh, I think I'm supposed to, I can go away for a while now. You know, like, you know, I think, I think it's okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Just standing there waiting for somebody to tell me exactly what to do. I can't wait to watch that movie and just try to find instances of you like looking unsure about where you should be standing. It actually is a really good movie. Michael Ritchie was the director of it who directed the – did you ever see the movie Smile? It's about beauty pageants. He kind of had a very Altants it's kind of he kind of had a very altman-y kind of thing and he did a movie called smile which is fantastic and he did some other things too i i can't think i can't remember right now but this was based this movie

is holly hunter was the star which it was ridiculously exciting to be around Holly Hunter. And, and like, you know, I went to a table read of the movie because I just had one scene. I played like a sheriff's officer and I went to one table read. And then when I was there on the day, there were a bunch, it was at a,

it's supposed to be a sheriff's department, but it was actually a high school. And I had lines and there were like 15 other guys in sheriff's outfits hanging around at a picnic table outside the high school. And, and I just went and hung out by them and Holly Hunter walked by and said, and like came over to me and she's like, Hey you, how are you doing? You know? And I was shocked. Like, I didn't even think that she had connected with me at all. You know, I was like, oh, hey, hi, how are you? And then she was like, oh, I'll see you later. And she walked away.

And then I, you know, I kind of looked back and like all these, all the guys are like, whoa, how did you do that? What did you say to her to get her to notice you, man? Oh, but it was, it was, I definitely, I, you know, I at least knew how to be on set. That was one thing, I guess, you know, it was, it was something good. Yeah, I didn't know how to do that. I didn't understand that the marks on the floor weren't like a ballroom dancing thing where you had to move from one to the other. I didn't understand that I got one and then my friends got one. I thought like, okay, so I go white to green to orange. I also didn't know that you're supposed to like get, I couldn't figure out the meals. I was like, when am I supposed to get my breakfast? They'd be like, okay, you're on

lunch now. And I was like thinking someone was going to bring it to me because there's so many things that, especially as an actor, it's like an actor, they treat you like you're a baby with like mittens on your hands. And it's not the crew people's fault. It's the culture of like, don't let the actors mess up their costume or don't let them wander off

or we don't want them getting sweaty. So you don't want them walking far or whatever. So you get treated like you're wrapped in plastic a little bit. So you feel like you don't have any agency to just like go get a sandwich. It feels insane. And then you're asking another grown woman to be like, can you get me a sandwich? Which also I hate. I always tell every costumer on set, I'm always like, I don't like the fact that you're a grown woman putting on another grown woman's shoes. So however I can

make this easier for you, this feels insane. You have to, Yeah. Sometimes you just have to, like, let someone tie your shoes. You know, like. Insane. It feels so wrong and so weird, but you just got to let someone tie your shoes. And I actually. And they can get their shoulder to lean on them. Yes. So you're leaning on a grown woman with thoughts and dreams of her own, putting on a shoe that she is then tying like some Victorian maid. I hate it.

Thank you, momentary mommy um yeah i and i i to the i always try and get my own food i oh i just yeah there's something about it that i just i don't know whether it's from being a pa or something and just like being annoyed being annoyed at bringing lunch to people who could have gotten their own fucking lunch, but they just, you know what I mean? I mean, there's some people that can't, but then there are other people when I can, I do. I think the same thing. And a lot of times I've been told like the AD will be like, we really don't want you going all the way over there. You're going to get sweaty. We're gonna have to do touches again. Like, please stay here. And so I'm like, is that getting communicated to the PA though that I was gonna, but then I

couldn't. I work with Steve Carell on Space Force and he's like, you know, one of the best comedy TV stars ever. He always gets his own stuff. And like, he'd probably be mortified that I'm even telling a story about him because he doesn't like to be celebrated in that way. But like, somebody's like, hey, can I get you something to drink? And he's like, no, no, I'm fine. And then two minutes later, he's up and getting it. I'm like, yeah, man, just get your own Dr. Pepper. That's how I want to be. Well, I always too, I think it's also like, I want to pick out my own lunch. Like, I think that's another thing. You know, it was always kind of like, no, I want to do this for myself. I don't want someone else, you know, going and getting it for me. So, well, now you get out of school.

And have you decided to stay in Chicago before you graduate? Or, yeah, were you like, at what point does that settle in where you're like, I'm going to stay here. Like, I like it here. I'm going to stay here. does that settle in where you're like, I'm going to stay here. Like, I like it here. I'm going to stay here. Honestly, probably like my third or fourth year when everyone started talking about whether they were going to move to LA or New York. And, you know, I just, I really felt like, hey, like the one thing the school does really well is all of our teachers are working professionals here in Chicago. Like they all work at the big theaters. So this is a chance to like really work

in these theaters that we've been going to watch so much and you know our Shakespeare teacher worked at Goodman and you know everybody worked at Steppenwolf so I was like that's where I want to be I want to like work at Steppenwolf and Goodman that you know the problem is is that for being such a great comedy town the theater scene is not a great comedy theater scene or at least it wasn't I shouldn't say anymore um so for me just kind of being a little bit of a goof I didn't find a lot of roles that felt great I I did some good work and I'm proud of it but it literally took until I was already at Second City and a friend

of mine who's a New York playwright Chris Diaz he'd written a really huge hit show called The Elaborate Entrance of Chad Deity. And everybody loved it. It was a really great show. And then he came back to Chicago because he was like, I love workshopping plays here. And he wrote a play for me. He wrote a play called The Upstairs Concierge, which was his way of bridging kind of what we call the downtown theater scene, like the subscriber-based theater scene with the comedy scene. And so, you know, I got to be in this farce about a weird celebrity-driven hotel, and we put it on at Goodman, and it absolutely flopped. They absolutely hated it. Only one critic had anything good to say about it. But

I felt like the show had merit. And again, here's me blaming the audience again, but I was just like, oh, I just don't think this audience is... You know, the week prior, I'd been at the Goodman watching the Horton Foot Festival or something. So they weren't used to or ready for that kind of subversive comedy on their very expensive stages.

But yeah, but I stayed because I wanted to do that type of work. I really wanted to work at Steppenwolf and I did not, but I tried real hard. I also don't... I don to do that type of work. I really wanted to work at Steppenwolf, and I did not, but I tried real hard. I also don't – I don't think that – I don't think there's really good theatrical comedy anymore. I mean, not that I've seen in a long time. It's very rare, but I should also say I'm also kind of biased against theater in general it seems it it's it's very old-fashioned it's like it's like the sort of like the issues that it seems

to tackle I never feel and I'm not you know I'm not young but I still feel like this is for people older than me like this is yeah this is like this is kind of like yesterday's ethos and uh and i i probably felt that way too especially when i wasn't getting cast i was like oh because this is all old white people shit and no one's casting me but then i think i did i started getting to know the young playwrights the people my age and younger there's a great playwright named ike holter who puts on to this day some of the funniest most poignant plays I've seen. But he was a schoolmate of mine at DePaul. And I remember a time when people didn't really know his name in the theater community.

And he was just doing his same thing, just writing good stuff. So I feel like that window, I feel like there is, you know, there's good comedy now in the theater. But it takes these kind of subversive, you know, I think one of his favorite shows is probably Big Mouth. So it's people like him who are watching TV and, you know, probably who have always been influenced by TV comedy, bringing it to theater. Or Book of Mormon, you know, written by, you know, South Park guys, you know, like it's, you know, that like that's one of the funniest things I've ever seen. But that and it but it's kind of an anomaly. Like there's not I haven't I mean, I'm not the expert on it. So I'm probably talking on my ass and people are going to be pissed.

But I am, too. But I just feel like people don't go to the theater to laugh like that. You know, they don't go to the theater. I think they do. But there's still an old fashioned reverence to the theater to laugh like that. You know, they don't go to the theater to... Well, I think they do. But there's still an old-fashioned reverence for the theater. And especially when you're paying $50 a seat or whatever the hell, and parking and dinner and down to Chicago. I think it's more than that now, yeah. It's probably more.

I know my prices are probably from 2001. But I still think people think that it needs to be important. It's like a shade less than going to the opera, and they don't always see the importance in comedy. So I think the subscribers are driving what especially the big regional theaters are willing to put on, because they just need a hit. They just need butts in seats. So they have to do Christmas Carol every year. I really sound like I'm going hard at Goodman, and I'm really not. But they have to do these big shows that are going to bring butts in seats. They got to do a chorus line or some big musical in the spring and maybe they're not taking the chances

as often on except for their little window of like fall diversity corner where they get you know playwrights to share one uh production slot yeah or there's some weird little side room that they do things that are kind of interesting. And yeah. A big theater loves a side room. The butts that are in the seats are old butts. That's always the problem, too, is it is a very old person's game. So. Can't you tell my loves are growing?

So how do you how do you come to improv or you just you know did you just go see a show at second city did you go to the annoyance you know i used to go you know one of my depaul instructors for a minute was susan messing oh yeah so i used to go see her stuff or she's an amazingly talented chicago improviser for people that don't know who just has been there forever she's a fixture now she's one of the funniest people in the world and i met her at a time when uh i was having like a tough thing happening in my life and then the school also was basically i'm in this super self-important school and everyone's trying to do a highbrow intellectual theater and i'm dealing with this stressful personal thing and she came at a time where she was just basically like poking us in the stomach and telling us to fuck off so when I first met Susan it was like

it was like someone had dumped water all over me and I was like no fuck this we paid all this money we're trying to get these important jobs and how dare she come and be so irreverent um and then I really grew to love and cherish what she was doing there. So yeah, it would, it had always been like in the ether, like, oh yeah,

Chicago is a place where we can go see a bunch of comedy while we then pursue our very serious theater jobs. But then literally I was doing a play that my friends had written. That was about, it was like a musical kind of parody show. And we just did a reading of it. And the director of talent at second city came to it and she was like hey come work for us uh and what i found out was because uh christina anthony who's a great actress was going on vacation and they needed a black woman understudy because they didn't have any um so then

they brought me on to basically like cover her stuff and then after a while they were like why don't you go try this out of town show so i went to rochester new york for like five months of my life or something wild uh and learned to improvise on stage alongside these people some of whom had been doing it for like 15 20 years uh and did this terrible show in rochester new york that was half sketch, half improv. And then after that, they were like, okay, we're going to put you on like a track. If you like doing this, you can do the, you know, the touring company, you'll tour for a couple of years and we'll put you hopefully on a stage. Like that's always the goal, right? To tour and then get on the stage. And so I did, I just kind of stuck with it. Cause I think I liked the, I liked the newness of it

every day. Like even when we were doing sketches, you know, you'd only do a sketch for a couple of weeks and then you'd do something else. As opposed to in theater, we would do the same show for a few months. You're saying the exact same lines. I wanted, yeah, I wanted something that shifted more. So yeah, and then once at Second City, I was like, oh, I feel like this is the way to get TV work.

Because if I can prove that I'm funny rather than just being a good actor, I feel like that'll separate me out from all of the very good actors in Chicago. So that's when I just went hard towards comedy because it was making me happier and it was yielding better results. Yeah. And it also too, I think you're, I just think that you're more like you're, you're, you can, you can do more things like, you know, like your feet are more firmly planted. I think then people that are just used to this one kind of thing, especially, you know, the notion that you can go. you know, like for, for me, like doing, you know, my early performing was all doing hour and a half shows where we didn't know what we were going to say at the beginning of the show and doing those at, you know, at the peak, like six days a week. Then when you go in and you're doing a, you know,

you go to a commercial audition, it's easy. It's like, I can, I know, I know what the fuck to do here like it's like yeah this is not daunting yeah this is not daunting this is not nerve-wracking or anything right um now did you meet your husband during this time yeah i met him in a band so at the same time that i was like doing my very sparse theater gigs a year you know two or three theater gigs a year and bartending and I started singing back up in some bands and some like bar bands and cover bands and tribute bands and he played in a band of like original music but yeah they were kind of just like weekend guys they all had other jobs and careers one dude was in grad school Nate my

husband was in advertising but on the weekends they would play like pretty decent sized gigs and uh my longtime collaborator who was also from the theater world bethany um bethany thomas she emailed me one day and was like because this was like a little pre-texting so it was like you emailed somebody when you needed to give them information yeah yeah and she was like hey do you want to come play in this band um there's not really a lot of pay but there's always beer the guys are cute everyone's really nice i was like sure um yeah and so he was a drummer in that band um but he was also kind of the the wrangler he almost was like the manager of the band because he was the most like kind of business like on top of it guy which i really appreciated because uh that's sort of how i was sort of the the wrangler of anything i was

producing or putting on yeah yeah and i had i always like i i always had that kind of when at a party when the police came they would say get andy like have him go talk to him or you know like when we when we all like would you know drop acid and like have him go talk to him or, you know, like when we, when we all like would, you know, drop acid and somebody would decide to drive to the Michigan dunes, I would say, I don't think we should do that. And then I, they'd be, I would realize, okay, I've lost this battle. And my, my, even though I'm tripping as hard as they are, my solution was like, all right, but I'm driving like driving like like somehow like like that would be better but i i just felt like no these fuck ups i can't let them behind the wheel it's got to be me who

like sweats and and you know feels like you know feels like open the window no close the window turn on the radio no turn off the radio oh i'm tripping too hard you know but you're like the better me than them yeah yeah exactly we were the same friend we were the same friend I love that I was and my son has the burden of it too like his friends in high school called him dad because he was always the one that would that would be like uh I don't know we shouldn't do that or you know we better get out of here kind of stuff this This is brutal. Yeah, yeah. So did, at that time, are you thinking you're going to stay in Chicago and just kind of, you know, I mean,

did you have any kind of long-term plans looking forward at that time? At that time, you know, my husband and I were dating and we were like really loving the music scene. I was in a Talking Heads tribute band that- Oh, cool. We did a good deal. Yeah, we would like put loving the music scene i was in a talking heads tribute band that oh cool what a good deal yeah we would like put on stop making sense we'd do the whole thing like the whole production um with the big venues the suit and the lamp and everything and wow everything the

props the lights everything we do it like at the river at like some big uh venue and it was really fun and then i was playing with um this guy john langford who's a british uh punk guy from the 80s who then kind of took on more of like a rootsy alt country sound so and and he's he was on a label called bloodshot that i sort of was like dabbling with and we sort of like released an album where i was singing backup in his band so i would tour with him i i was getting on stage at second city i was was like not having to bartender wait tables anymore. This was like 2011. I think I quit my day job, which was huge. I mean, to not have to work some side job to just make money from bands, acting.

And, you know, I do like one or two little commercial gigs a year. And comedy was like, I've hit the Holy Grail. This is incredible. It is. It sounds incredible. It is. It sounds fantastic. It's like how much fun, you know? Yeah. I still say if you want to be an artist,

like Chicago's the city to do it in because it's not as bone crushingly expensive as New York and LA. And there's enough hustle-y little gigs to do. It's still my artistic home. And all my friends, all my bandmates are still there. They're all like,

they're all like working three or four little passion gigs that they love. And I don't know. It just seems like a place to, to do what you love. You got to do a lot of it, but you can do it. It's a beautiful place to live. It is like,

it's very hard to get fuck you money working in a creative field in Chicago. But you can have a nice life. And like I said, I just miss what a nice place it is to live. What a beautiful place it is to live. It's a gorgeous town and it is you know it and it does have like humility and sort of a sense of humor about itself and it's i i just i really like it it's really you too go chicago go chicago i hope you're all listening and you hear us singing your praises so what what swept you, what stole you from Chicago?

I always say this, but I'm like, I just, I got killed off all the ambulance shows. Like I did my little one line on Chicago Fire. There was a show called Sirens at the time, a show called Crisis. I literally like was killed off of them or was my storyline was ended in one small scene on each of them. So I was just like, I got to, I guess I want to do TV. This seems like kind of the next step. So I sort of tentatively went to LA. My husband, Nate was like, Hey, do me a favor. We can go there and stuff, but let's not move to LA. And I was like, absolutely not. We're not going to do that. That's crazy. We started trying to buy a building in Little Village in Chicago because we were like, okay,

in the ground floor, we're going to have a big recording area, recording studio. And upstairs, we'll have our apartment. Then we'll rent out the next apartment. So we had this whole three-flat plan. And then I came to LA to do a pilot season. Didn't book anything, of course. But then in August, I came back in August and was just here for six weeks I think and I booked bajillion dollar properties

and yeah and then I was like okay I guess I'm doing this for the next couple months and then we did that for a couple months and then in between I did like a guest spot on some sitcoms I got cut out of but then bajillion came back for like two more little seasons so like the

work just kind of kept rolling and it seemed less and less likely that I could really go back for any amount of time. So at a certain point, we just like sent up a pod full of our stuff out to L.A. And we were like, I guess we live here now. It was very strange because we didn't make a choice. We didn't have like a going away party. We were just like, oh, yeah, yeah, we'll be back. And we kept kind of coming back. And then we were like, oh, I guess because things are good um we're staying and because

nate's advertising job was headquartered in la he was working at their firm in chicago but it was headquartered in la so they were like yeah come work at the headquarters so we were like i guess we can't be assholes about this people have it way harder we should just go where the work is yeah yeah yeah and it's and it's not it's here. You know, like, there's a lot of really good people, and it's, you know, the weather, you know, there's always the weather. Yeah, man, the weather's good. Yeah, yeah. And you really do feel there is a difference between, like, here we just were singing its praises, like, yeah, you can do it in chicago but there is something about when you come to la or new york for that matter and you

and you make money and you get a job and you're like oh okay this is like this is i was you know i was like drinking sort of like weak coffee. Now I'm getting espresso shot directly into my veins. And, you know, and even if you're not like some sort of showbiz megalomaniac, it still is like, oh, this is the good. This is stuff is uncut. This is the pure stuff. Yeah. This is a pure just line to the brain of work. Show business.

Yeah. Oh, and also there the brain of work. Yeah, show business, yeah. Yeah, and there's so much work. There's so many potential jobs that one could have or be rejected from, but it's intoxicating. It also feels too, you know, like you are threading this needle that you started out years and years ago, wondering if it was was possible wondering if you could pull it off and then it's like holy shit i can and wow you know i mean i you know just the i still can't like i made i made my living doing this silly nonsense you know and uh and it's still i have moments of like where i'm like wow that that, I'm lucky or talented or combination thereof or just, you know. Yeah.

But certainly fortunate, so. Yeah, fortunate for sure. I like that word. Yeah. Because you're right. It's like we're talented and we work hard. Great. But there's a lot of people like that who it isn't happening for.

Yeah. So that's where some kind of, there's some kind of intangible element happening that's like, yeah, some sort of fortunate element. And I just felt like, oh, so many people want to do this. I would be insane not to keep following this as long as I like it, you know? Did you know, Kulap Vilesek is the creator of Vigilian, which for people that don't know was,

I thought when I, cause I, and that was the first time I ever met you is that you and I were in a, in a show together in a really gross house in the Hills. Do you remember that house? It was gross. I remember I was probably still so new to LA that I was like, wow, what wealthy people must live here.

Yeah. Yeah. I, I hadn't met you before. So I did, I, you know, it just like, I don't having

been on Conan Island for all those years like there's a lot of people like that would come through UCB in different places and that I I just wouldn't be aware of so I didn't really know who you were did you know Hula before or was it just did you just audition and got the gig wow yeah I just auditioned and got the gig and i met her and scott and i'd i'd heard of uh comedy bang bang the podcast but i wasn't like enough of a listener that i could put together who he was or who she was to him or anything yeah so yeah i just kind of auditioned and the audition was all improv and oh my god i had just spent you know five years of doing eight shows a week for 300 drunk strangers at Second City. So

probably my first job in LA would not have been a scripted job because I just had not had that much practice saying any sort of scripted words, but improv I could nail. So I came in and like Scott and Kulap both said really lovely, kind things to me about my improvising. And I was like, what? You mean that bullshit? That me just talking and saying whatever I want? That's nothing. What are you talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do that all the time. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I love me in my house. I was I was just struck by the genius of the concept of the show being, you know, a realty company. But then you just went to actual houses that were set for sale and shot there. Like, I was like, oh, that's brilliant.

Like, you don't need studio space. You just, these houses are sitting empty anyway. You might as well go shoot in them, you know? I was like, damn, I wish I'd thought of that. Yeah. She was a genius in terms of using all the parts of the animal. She would literally be like, okay, so this scene only needs to take place in the dining room. Great.

So that house is going to be dressed this way. It's going to be with this decor or whatever. But then we're going to shoot this other scene that's supposed to be in a Spanish-style house in Santa Monica, just right next to it in the hallway. And we're just going to put some art on the wall. So she would turn one location into like five different sets. It was very cool. so she would turn one location into like five different sets it was very cool that's that's the fun problem solving of directing is is little things like that it's like you know oh shit we're running late let's just we'll just turn the camera around we'll look into this corner rather than

go down the street you know um yeah and uh did did did you get an agent then? You know, is it like here or did you have an agent here? You know, was there? I had one. I had one in Chicago who I really loved. I was with Stuart Talent. They were like, they were like the coolest. When I was a young, like theater school kid, I was just dreaming. I was like, maybe one day I'll be with Stuart Talent because they represented all the big, like regional theater artists.

And so I held on to them for a long time while i was in la and literally probably got you know moved on from them way too late because at the point that i said like hey i'm gonna move on i need to get like an agent out here they were like yeah of course you do what are you doing so is that is that when you start getting you know these these other gigs like on uh on uh i'm forgetting that i'm blanking on the steve carell the show space i do space force with yeah yeah i um i i don't know you know there's never been like a and now i'm doing this like it has been such a fortunately such a steady climb gig to gig thing, thing to thing of like, oh, and now I get something

that feels a little more permanent or now I get like a recurring thing or now I finally do a pilot. It just felt like nothing has been windfall. It feels like I have been steadily working since I quit that bartending job in 2011. And I just keep following the little breadcrumb trail and go into the next thing. So it's nice. It also just doesn't feel like there was no moment where I sat there and went, and now I've made it. I was just like, well, I probably need to get another couple episodes on something. I need a recurring thing next. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What's been your favorite? I mean, is the Star Trek job? I mean as you say you're a Star Trek person is that like the biggest sort of pinch me kind of job that you've had maybe just because there's not a lot of like fandoms I'm a part of like I was never like a Marvel person or Star Wars person I watched Star Wars but I just never was like this is my thing thing. Since I was a kid, I was very into Star Trek, and my parents are. I had always loved Star Trek and knew a good deal about it. So to get that job, I voice a character on Star Trek Lower Decks, which is their only animated comedy.

It's not the only animated Star Trek. There was one back in the 70s, but it's the only adult animated comedy. And Star Trek is one of those places that, you know, has had a history of hiring like super theater actor, you know, Patrick Stewart is like the most high, you know, high heightened language intellectual type. So I was like, ah, there's no way I'll ever work for a Star Trek property.

Everybody there is too cool and serious. And then this goofy, you know, it's by one of the writers from rick and morty my friend mike mcmahon he comes along and creates this like total hilarious loose you know we improvise a lot uh show and yeah i was like oh my god finally like a way i can be part of this world so that felt the coolest just because it felt like a thing that i always loved but that i was gonna never be able to pierce i was never gonna be to be part of it. And you've maintained, you've kept doing music. I mean, how is there, is that like something that you need to do or is it just

because it's so much fun, you know, that you still do it? I feel like I got to do it. I, you know, I've always been very DIY and very indie and kind of outside of the music business. I've had some things on that label in Chicago, Bloodshot, but it wasn't, I never had like a big label deal and now I'm trying to be a pop person and now I have a music manager. I've always just been like, well, I'm going to make a thing and I'm going to put it out. I'm going to have some shows and people are going to come to it and hopefully I can piggyback it onto some TV job I'm doing that'll actually make me some money so that I'm not just losing all my money making this record. Yeah. Yeah. It's been a, it's been a supplemental career that I know would not be possible without my TV career.

So yeah, I feel very, very, very fortunate for that. Cause I have a lot of friends who are, you know, it's their main thing and it's, it's a slog. It's harder than acting for sure. Yes. I can't even imagine being in the music business. It's insane. Yeah. It's insane. Because like you think about the littlest thing, like we have a union.

We have an actor's union. Yeah. If you're just like a guy who plays guitar in an indie band, there's no safety net. There's no one fighting for your rights or your humanhood yeah it's an insane business i'm always struck too and i'm because i'm i compare it to acting and improv and comedy and i and i think like you know like the real sort of like lower rungs of the music ladder is like shitty clubs with indifferent people and but i feel I feel like, but, and yeah, you're still getting to play music, but I just feel like you haven't in comedy, you're making people laugh or something,

and you know, they, they, it's harder for them to ignore you and stuff. And I also too, I always have this feeling when I like, I just, I was, it was a year or so ago, and we were at a restaurant down kind of Newport area, beach kind of place. And there was a live guitarist, and I didn't – I couldn't – he was like over my shoulder behind me in like a next room playing. And I'm hearing him play, and I'm like, holy shit, that guy's fantastic. And I turn around, and I'm hearing him play and I'm like, holy shit, that guy's fantastic. And I turn around and I'm watching him and it hits me like, that guy's playing in a steakhouse. It's like that guy, the talent and the work and everything. And it's just like, there's so many steakhouses with just brilliant artists sitting there being ignored, being background sound. And it just feels so,

I don't know, it just makes, you know, I got depression issues anyway. I don't need to see that. But okay. If I can though, cause I know a lot of those steakhouse people. I know a lot. They're not all depressed. A lot of them are. Okay. But it a lot yeah they're not all depressed a lot of them okay but it's just me it's just me no i think you're right i think to me it did seem too daunting to just try to be a musician and i don't mean just like it's not worthy i mean like for me to only do that right it would have been very hard but for you it's like for you for your own needs yeah yeah yeah i i just knew i couldn't I couldn't really hack it, frankly. I knew I'd get discouraged and I wouldn't make it.

I was never going to be some shiny pop star. And that's really all that sells. You know, you get a big record deal and you get a song on TikTok and then you can kind of pay your rent. But other than that, like if you want to just like write good music and tour in a little indie band, you can do it. Again, I highly suggest living in Chicago where you can like then get a little like corporate gig on the side. My one friend composes music for like slot machines and video games out of this headquarters in Chicago. And then on the weekends, he gets to go be, you know, a rock and roll guy. But so a lot of them, yeah, they might be playing a steakhouse or like I have another friend who's in a really popular wedding band in the Chicago area.

He loves it. And then during the week, he's like a super intense studio guy like he's helping you record your record or if like the black keys come through town he's you know engineering and like working at the studio so you you might catch him on a gig that doesn't seem great but i don't know the whole you know they might be doing other stuff that's like really fulfilling. Yeah, yeah. So don't get sad, man. I'm an asshole. No.

I know, I know. Now, if you had to choose between music and acting, I mean. Do I have to eat in this scenario? You don't have to choose. Huh? Do I have to eat food in this scenario? um yeah say like say like one gets so you know one gets so consuming of your time and and that you can't do the other which would you prefer to be if if in some alternate universe where music was so consuming of my time that means it would be paying me a livable wage and i i would do that

i think it makes me happier i'm more because you know I am I mean I'm doing a little bit of comedy in between the between the songs there's banter going on so it feels more what I'm and I love being in the studio I love just being a little studio rat recording head um I I would just do that I would make records and I would tour them with my friends and I'd go back and make records again. But I don't see that happening. I don't see it happening. Well,

it's, it's neat that you have, I mean, it's really cool that you have this, you know, it's really cool that you have, that you have both because I always feel like things like that. They inform each other and they make you better at both things.

You know, a makes you better at B and B makes you better at a i hope so i think all my time in in the talking heads tribute band i hope me memorizing the words and movements to life during wartime yeah yeah has helped me be on netflix or or that one that's like ha hira shaka hey uh you know like all the you know yeah isembra that's what it is yeah like that one i'd forget all that shit i'd have to just i'd be making oh man i could do it but i won't do it here everyone can go you can go right you don't want you didn't ask me that yeah yeah i certainly did not um well i mean do you have what's what's your big

where's next for you like do you have and what's your big, where's next for you? Like, do you have, and it could be also in your personal life. I mean, you know, are you, you know, are there family plans? Are there, I mean, I know that, I always feel like it's a weird thing to ask, but it's just like. No, it's not weird. I don't, you know, we're child free and I think you're going to keep it that way. Yeah. I would, I would like a dog one day. That's something we're going to and I think you're going to keep it that way I would like a dog one day

that's something we're going to have to talk about but I think like career wise though what I'm really into I've been doing a lot of writing and I've been trying to I've kept my music and my acting pretty separate but now I'm kind of trying to blend it and write you know features

and stuff about my work and my experience in the music industry. Because I've just, by being kind of a fringy outsider DIY artist, I've just had some wild experiences that I feel like we don't see black women, especially portraying in media. We see a lot of indie rock stories

about lovely white people. And we don't see a lot of that for for black folk and in that genre of music um yeah so yeah i want i want some stuff that that get that allows me to showcase some of those skills but but but on the screen i guess i don't know what i'm trying to say yeah i want like a yeah i want to blend the careers a little bit yeah so there isn't like some specific like i want to direct my own film that I've written and I've been sitting on and want to do that like it's just kind of just

yeah no I have that too yeah I got one of those I got one or two of those I don't know that I need to direct it but I wrote it I wrote all the songs I want someone who also is a musician to direct it maybe with me. Yeah.

Yeah. That's great. Yeah. You want to be in it? Sure. I got time. Do you play an instrument? No, no, no.

But I could fake it. Yeah, that's true. I have faked it a number of times in different situations. Did it make you want to learn when you faked it on camera? Were you like, nah, now I got to play the bass? You know, I don't, I just don't have the knack for it. I love music and I listen to music all the time. And it's a very important thing to me. And I, you know, like, you know, Spotify has just been like such a,

just such a great godsend for me because I also just mostly like old music. I mean, I listen to some new music, but like I like old soul music. I like old country music. I like old pop music. But like and Spotify introduces me to old, you know, 70 year old shit that I had never heard before. It introduces me to old, you know, 70-year-old shit that I had never heard before. Yeah. But it does not translate into me wanting to do it. There's kind of an urge.

Like, I'd really kind of like to know. But I tried to play the cornet when I was a kid. I was in band. The cornet. Yes, the cornet. And I took guitar lessons but i just think the add gets in the way of of really being able to to do it and it also is not like you know like a friend of mine has a six-year-old daughter who can sit down like hear a tune and sit down and pick it out on the piano. I can't do that. I don't, like, I don't know what a C is.

I don't know what an F is. Right. I don't know. And I can, and I've attempted to learn and I've been in situations where it learns and it just, it doesn't, my brain doesn't work that way. It's like, it's like some kind of math that i don't understand that i like and i'm that way with math i don't understand numbers you can tell me about numbers and stuff and i think i get it and then if i you know if two minutes go

by then i'm not thinking about it it all goes right out of my brain so sure i i mean i would drawn to it it's not yeah it's not it's not a language that speaks to me, you know. And so, you know, there's other things that I'm good at and I just kind of have gotten used to the notion of like, OK, that's just not in my skill set. Yeah. My kids are much better at it. You know, my kids, my kids have some musical talent which they kind of you know like pick up and drop at at will you know like i'll play guitar for a while and then i won't for months you know yeah well that was always my thing is you know i was surrounded by i i always say i'm lousy with guitar virtuosos i probably know 15 of some of the best guitar players you'll ever meet um so i i learned i learned from one of them and he was like,

wow, you learn fast. If you stuck with this, you could be really good. And I was like, yeah, but I kind of just wanted to learn enough so that I could write parts. So I kind of learned every instrument enough so that I could write a part and then I could hand it off to someone else in the studio. And then when we perform it live, I just want to sing and like have my work come to life.

I don't want to, I don't need to be the guitar guy, you know? Right. I haven't played a lot of drums lately though and that is the last like three years i've been really focusing on them and i'm like this i feel like i could be a drum guy i could be a drum guy yeah i bet it's cathartic too it's fun i love it yeah yeah and it seems easier this sounds insane but after playing all those other things like mediocre to bad drums seem like oh man this is a breeze yeah if you could uh thank you so much for your time i want to wrap it up here and you know if you could take all of what you've learned and put it into kind of you know one little neat package that ends a podcast well um what would it what do you think that would be i

mean what you know and like i said i always say it doesn't have to be about show business you know a lot of times it is and we end up talking about career stuff but you know it could also just be i think i mean this is a little show busy but it feels like all the different boxes i tried to like put myself in or all the things I thought I was supposed to learn or supposed to do. At the end, the thing that is making me the most successful is just being myself and following the things that I like. So I'm grateful for all the experiences, but I would say like folks shouldn't be, if you're trying to be in any sort of way in showbiz like don't

i don't know don't stress too hard about making the right choices just follow things that you like do something new try something else have a couple side hustles at the end they'll all start working in concert together at the end like i'm at the end of my life but you know when you're yeah no i know you know you're working when you become a real grown-up, you know. Yeah, I guess that's what I am. Yeah, yeah. No, you're a grown-up. No, I think, I mean, you know, I think it's like just I think that there's something very enviable about just how varied your career is. And it just sounds really super fun. your career is. And it just sounds really super fun. And, and you don't, you know,

like you, you don't have a lot of the bullshit of, you know, like if you were, if you were like the star of a giant sitcom, like that's consuming, you know, and, and there's also a lot of bullshit involved, whereas you kind of, you know, you get to dabble, and that's just awesome, you know? You get to bounce around. I get to do different little things, and I mean, you know, I'll take the sitcom job for a minute. Oh, hell yes. No, I, listen. We're putting ourselves out there. Andy and I will star in your sitcom. We will be the leads. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It can also, it can be dumb and unfulfilling. I'll fucking do your- I am not proud. I don't care. Oh, give me the, yeah. It can also, it can be dumb and unfulfilling. I'll fucking do your- I am not proud. I don't care.

Give me the, yeah. I'll say the stupidest jokes. I'm not going to pretend to be smarter than you. Like, let's do it. Let's have a dumb, the dumbest sitcom. It's just called like My Old Foot. It's called derr. Yeah, no, I mean, I do have standards, but I also, you know, like there's also too, there's work.

There's work and there's kind of like, and you can also, it's very rare that I've been in situations where I didn't have some fun, like where I didn't sort of make some fun out of it. I mean, I've had some miserable jobs. Oh, yeah. sort of make some fun out of it. I mean, I've had some miserable jobs. Oh, yeah. Luckily, they were never, they were always, you know, kind of like just a day or two or a week. And then you're sort of like, okay, that, you know. I've gotten lucky with that too, where the actual, the absolute hell job is only like maybe a week where your manager calls and they're like, so how was it?

And you're just like, well, it was a way to make a living. And I don't want to talk about it anymore. It was miserable. It was disorganized. No one knew what the fuck they were doing. And they were rude. And the food was bad. And my trailer smelled.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got bitten by an animal. Well, Tawny, thank you so much for your time. It's been great talking to you. I really appreciate it. And good luck with everything going forward. And, you know, I hope to see you out there on campus soon. Yeah, I'll see you on the campus.

Thanks, Andy. I've been a fan for such a long time. So it's so nice, yeah, like getting to know you the last few years. Oh, thank you. Thank you. And me to you. And all of you out there, it's been lovely. Well, like getting to know you the last few years. Oh, thank you. Thank you. And me to you. And all of you out there, it's been lovely. Well, I don't know you, you people out there, you faceless podcast listeners, but I'm glad you got to know us.

I mean, we're pretty great, right? Yeah. Watch My Dumb Dad, Thursdays at 9 on Fox. All right. We'll be back next week with more of the three questions. Bye. The Three Questions with Andy Richter

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