The Three Questions with Andy Richter - Tom Papa

Episode Date: April 27, 2021

Comedian and author Tom Papa catches up with his neighbor Andy. The two chat about Papa’s very first bit, how to manage fear through comedic zen, and the therapeutic benefits of complaining about your family on stage.

hi everyone it's andy richter and you have tuned into another episode of the three questions and uh i'm going to be posing those three questions today to a very very funny man who i have known for years and uh who is like uh practically uh like a neighborhood guy tom papa uh i mean because our kids go to the same school i used to see you all the time on this uh show i worked on uh conan show i think it was called i remember that. Yeah, yeah. How are you? I'm doing well.

I'm doing well. Yeah, we're starting a little late because tell the audience what happened because it's kind of charming. All right. After I drove my daughter to school, which is like one of the first times all year. Yeah. So we're all out of school. Same, same.

I got a daughter and yesterday was the first day. Yeah. And so we're all out of school. Same. I got a daughter and yesterday was the first day. Yeah. And so we're all confused. And I was actually criticizing her on the way in because she had forgotten a couple things like her dance shoes and stuff. I'm like, you got to get it together. Yeah. And then I wrote come home and I'm a little confused myself. And I see my pug who loves the sun just sunbathing out back i was like oh that looks

too delicious and i just laid down next to him and we just started rolling around and stuff and totally drifted off into the clouds and forgot that i was supposed to be on your show that goddamn pug has undermined more of my podcast going around distracting people. His name is Frank, which is just perfect in moments like this, because when you got to yell or just kind of like slightly aggravated, it's like yelling at Sinatra. You're like, come on, Frank, Frank, I got to go podcast, Frank. I always thought like the two dog names that would be good. Because my dog's named Daisy. It doesn't work as well.

But, like, so that when you can yell, it sounds like Ricky is a good one. And Debbie. Like, Debbie! Like, to yell out the door, Debbie! Where are you going, Debbie? Debbie, don't leave! Where are you going, Debbie? Debbie, don't leave.

Well, I'm sorry to take you away from your podcast. That sounds like lying down on the ground next to a dog is one of the great joys. It's pretty good, but, you know, get back to your life. You're right, exactly. When Michaela Watkins was on this podcast, she did it at a studio, at the Earwolf Studios, and I brought my dog. I hadn't had my dog very long. When she met my dog, my dog was lying on the floor, and Michaela just lied down next to her for just a good spoon right in the middle of the podcast studio. They just made like, they just made me like, I love you. That's fantastic.

It's so great. I have to say, and this is a little bit of a side note, but you gave me a little dog tip. Because when we first got our dogs, I visited you at your place. And we were talking about the dogs, and we got a black lab at the time. And you're like, yeah, you know, you got a black lab at the time and you're like yeah you know you gotta you gotta clean up after the dog and i was i was kind of i was kind of aggravated didn't really know like i gotta scoop this up you're like just leave it for a day it's hard and it's easy to pick up yeah and

i literally carry that little lesson in my head all the time like yeah just leave it for a day yeah it's like yeah although i have to be careful with my dog because uh i have to pick them up right a because she's large and um and i have found plenty of piles of poop with a perfect dog print in it like a perfect paw print like she's just not real bright so like if she goes decides to run around and go bark at, you know, bark at a squirrel, the fact that there's a giant loaf of pumpernickel bread in her way doesn't stop her. She just runs right through it. Maybe it's the latte signature.

It's something. Yeah, exactly. This is me. The only way she has to do it. All right. Now, how long have you been a stand-up comedian now how long how many years has this been your career um i i would it's like uh like uh i started in 1993 june of 1993 and that's when i started on conan yeah is that crazy yeah yeah yeah june 12th 1993 so my whole adult life wow and were you

a funny you grew up in jersey were you a funny kid um yep i was always a funny kid yeah i was like the kind that got in trouble or um yeah a little bit a little bit um but i would always kind of like i was always a rule follower too like i yeah i i i would kind of charm my way charm my way out of it but i got in a good amount of trouble for sure yeah uh but i was i was hamming it up like real early like kindergarten first grade stuff like class clown kind of thing yeah yeah I was class clown. And the first time I got up and I knew, the first time I like did a bit,

like was in first grade when Rhinestone Cowboy was a popular song. Remember that? It's a Rhinestone Cowboy. And I was sitting in class and eating a banana. Already funny. Already funny. Funny food food and i walked up to the front of the class not during like show or tell show and tell or i just i got the bit in my head so i went up there and uh right in front of the teacher just started twirling the banana around

like a cowboy lasso and started singing rhinestone banana on the rhinestone banana and shaking my little hips and uh the teacher was like what are you doing go back and the kids laughed and i literally remember in this first grade it's so etched in there because i like thought of a thing did the thing they laughed at the thing and I went back and felt good. Yeah. That was my first, my first little taste. Yeah. Your first experience with transactional comedy. Yeah. Transactional for you and the audience.

Yeah. Yeah. But I was class clown, like in junior high and, and in high school. Were you encouraged by your family? Like, did you, did they, you know, foster funny kids? Or was it like, shut up? Yeah, no, it was a funny, it was kind of a good, the perfect combination.

Because my mother was silly and would always do voices and imitate the neighbors. And she was always cutting up with us. And they were young parents, you know. They had us when they were 20 or something. And my dad was pretty strict, but you could break him. You know, you get him to laugh. So it was like that good thing of like silliness and tension in the house. That's a good place to kind of like foster the funny.

And there was no stopping it. I mean, we were just ripping away and being as funny as we could be. Yeah. Well, the tension does help because nothing's better about comedy than the break of tension. You know what I mean? Yeah, right. Exactly. I mean, that was always my favorite because I was very much the same way.

I didn't like getting in trouble. I was a rule follower. Getting in trouble, which I don't even know. But the notion of that just chilled me to the bone as a child. Without any thought of like, well, what's the consequences? It's like looking back at – I've never been in a physical fight uh you know except for like with my brother uh yeah in my entire life and and i would oh and you know and i think it's all i'm a i'm a big person so i think that helped but yeah i often thinking back about times when i like look back with like a cringe of like times when somebody was aggressive to me and I backed down and I was just looking

back and I think like what if what if I had gotten in a fight like what would have happened like it's not it would have been like I would have maybe got hit like I've been hit it's not so terrible like I don't know what I was so terrified of you know yeah well conflict i mean yeah yeah was your dad really strict were you were your parents strict um no not really strict but they were yellers they were screamers my mom my mom was very and still is very loud my mom my mom still like yeah just you know yeah i have to tell her like you yeah we don't do that here. We don't, like, just because breakfast is ready, bellow at the top of our lungs. Debbie! Debbie!

But, no, but they were yelling. And there was some, yeah, I mean, and it got, you know, it got dysfunctional and ugly. And there was some sort of physical stuff. But that's for a different time. Yeah, but that stuff, I always feel like that stuff kind of leads you away from the conflict. Like, if my father would get angry, like, you know, he had a little bit of a short temper, and he was a big, strong guy. I didn't want that. I didn't want to call that on.

So I think when I went out in the world, I was like, I didn't want to invite more of that. You know what I mean? And it wasn't like abusive or anything, but just any kind of conflict, I was just like, not into it. Well, and I think too, like, I mean, it's kind of also too,

it was very, I was raised mostly by my grandma and my mom, and they were very much be a good boy. And so that's drilled into you. That's not, I didn't have like a male kind of presence that says like, yeah, follow the rules. But sometimes you got to tell people to fuck off. Or sometimes you got to stand up for yourself. Or if somebody's mean to you, don't put up with it. You know, I never kind of got a lot of that kind of suggestion so yeah you want to make them happy yeah it's like okay no i just you know

you're supposed to be nice everything's supposed to be nice why aren't you being nice yeah we should be nice and you know you know through it came out of a couple divorces too you know as a kid yeah and was like so it was like conflict was not something you wanted to. Yeah. You know, it was, it seemed just deadly. It seemed, you know, the stakes were so high. Yeah. That if you should get in an argument with somebody, you know.

Yeah, I'm the same way. I don't really get, I don't like arguing. I don't like, even with my wife, I'm just like, I'd rather just like go into a cave and be cold for a day than make them yell and scream yeah and after you got that cave installed your life really your marriage picked up your relationship with the kids yeah and the wild mountain animals that live in there yeah well were you a smart ass like did you get in in trouble in school like because that was me i would you know yeah sometimes couldn't stop yeah no for sure yeah i was i was getting in trouble and uh getting sent down to the principal and i just i was you know i just wanted to have fun and like you say like tension, what's more tense than a classroom with a, with an English teacher who's being really strict. And it's like,

oh, you can get laughs here so easily. And my friends were funny. So they would, you know, it was just constant, constant, just screwing around. What did you think when you're, you were going to be when you were a kid? I mean, were you, good grades i did i just did i got the grades that would keep everyone off my back like if i could get like b minuses and and c pluses uh yeah i could i could kind of like not get in trouble when i went home um and i was always getting the you know you're not applying yourself and all but i i just wasn't into it i think uh what it was seventh grade when i discovered what a comedian was like you know i'd been watching shows or and things but i it was i listened to two comedy albums this one summer week with was uh steve martin's let's get small

at my brother's at my friend's older brother's room all these older cool dudes yeah listening to steve martin and then and then george carlin's at the end of the week at class clown and that was the first time i realized oh being funny could be a job like you could you could do this as a job and from that point on i just had my sights set on on trying to keep this going. Oh, really? Wow. Yeah, yeah. At a very, really early. But I had nobody in my family that was anywhere close to show business.

Yeah. And so they wanted me to go to school and, you know, have a fallback plan and all that kind of stuff. But I was just purely, I was like following the rules of that. I was like, all right, I could see could see you know I don't want to end up living under a bridge so I guess I'll do that but this comedy thing is really where I'm I'm headed and um did you start did you start in in like because this is always amazing to me that people that I talked to on the show they're like like, yeah, I started to work. I started doing standup in high school or I started, took improv classes in high school. And I'm always

just like, what? How could you be so brave? You know? I know. No, I was, I was an athlete through high school. Yeah. So I was doing all of that stuff. And then, but once I had played football from kindergarten through 12th grade oh and once that and once that season was over in 12th grade that was it i was like all right i did it i'm done i'm not gonna go do i don't want to do this in college and i picked a school that hadn't just had their football team suspended like that was your reason like yeah their program their program was done and i was like and they had a theater department and i was like i'll go there and uh because my father wanted me to play like continue like playing like division three like keep going with it but i was just toast

i was like i'm not what's the point i'm not not doing this for the rest of my life and if you're not gonna yeah and it does seem like if you're not gonna get into the nfl then yeah you know like yeah yeah yeah and i'm like if you don't love it especially because football is the worst it's like lord of the flies man it's i played for two i played for two years in high school and then when it just got to be where like the coach wanted us to come in for five voluntary weeks or five voluntary nights a week in the summer for like two hours five days a week yeah and volunteer on a voluntary basis which meant like he you wouldn't play if you didn't do it right how about do you want it yeah and i'm sure that you could have probably gotten him in trouble or in today's

world someone would get him in trouble for that but right yeah i just was like i'll get a job at the grocery store and it was also it just was like the transformation of my friends from being just like these boys i'd grown up with into being just like reveling in the misery that they could cause someone else's body. It was just like, ugh. I don't like this. Yeah, it was very weird. Like, I didn't have that. I mean, I was literally the captain of the football team.

Oh, wow. Congratulations. Thank you. But I was – because I was really into it and i was big i was the same size i am now you know then yeah and i was really into it and loved it but i was also the class clown i remember like one time we had to start this practice by stretching and i'd have to lead the the whole team through these stretches these warm-ups and this one kid, Joe, was screwing around, and I yelled at him.

And he's like, I'm sorry, but it's a hard adjustment to go from what we were just doing in the locker room because I was making everyone laugh, and then now you're acting like you're our boss. He's like, you know, give me a break. But I took it really seriously. But I didn't have that. But I was, you know, hanging out with everybody but I took it really seriously and, but I didn't have that, but I was,

you know, hanging out with everybody and making them laugh and stuff. So I never, I never like fostered the real jock kind of that douchey part of being a jock, you know, it was, but, and,

and our team wasn't very good as a result. Well, now that you're dad, when you say, like, no, no football, I'm going to go to theater school, how is that adjustment for him? Is he okay? Yeah, he was all right with it. It took a little bit. It took a little bit because he saw that I had potential to at least play that stuff. But I was just done.

I don't remember it being – he must have accepted it because I don't remember it being he must have accepted it because i don't remember it being any much of a conflict yeah there was some conversations i'm sure but he didn't really like demand it or like turn his back on me because of it and it was it was really like a it was rider college in new jersey which is the distinction of being described as down the road from princeton! Yeah, from the real schools. And it was really kind of a communications business school, and I did communications, but it had a theater department. So I just started doing that,

and immediately freshman year was in plays and stuff. And I think they, you know, they too saw that I was headed that direction, even though the sports was like a fun thing to do it was i think it was pretty expected from them that i would show up in plays like and start doing that stuff immediately and you didn't do plays in high school no yeah sports was there's no time yeah yeah time i like you know i like those kids and but there was no time. Yeah, there was no time. I like those kids, but there was no time. And when football was over, they had a talent contest variety show thing, and I hosted that.

And I created bits and hosted. And that was like the – it was over for football, and I was on stage doing horrible bits of what I thought was going to be like a routine. But I, yeah, I jumped, I kind of like jumped right into it. But you are reborn. Yeah. I was just like, all right, now I can just do this part. I don't have to do that other part anymore.

Well, now you go to college to do this and you said that your parents were kind of like, do you have a, you know, a backup plan? and was there a backup plan did you not really it was like you know i guess i guess advertising i could do advertising if i have to because i can write but it wasn't it wasn't in my head that there was a real backup plan and yeah at all yeah and then and then i read in the village voice that i could to be an actor because i was doing mostly acting i would like i would record myself doing stand-up and stuff i never got up and did it and then uh to be an actor you had to get hired you know in new york city you know this yeah i was like and then i was looking at the village voice it was like new york comedy

club said if you brought a couple friends you could uh get on stage for five minutes and i and i just uh called them and made the date and they're like all right you can come in yeah all right and i just was like holy cow i have a gig guys you guys have to come sit in the audience i'm'm going to go to New York City and be on stage. Were you out of college by that time? Yeah. Yep. I was out of college living in northern New Jersey. And doing what for a living?

I was writing ad copy. Oh, okay. At a small agency in New Jersey. Yeah. And living with my friends and just hanging out and then found. And I was like starting to audition a little bit but that was hard i didn't really have a guide where to go or what to do yeah but comedy you could kind of take it into your own hands yeah yeah you know so so i made this date

and walked in and there was uh the host was on stage there was no one in the audience but my friends and uh it was like you know in the summer five o'clock in the audience but my friends. And it was like, you know, in the summer, 5 o'clock in the afternoon, light out. The old New York Comedy Club was on top of a cowboy bar. It was like a Western bar. And you went upstairs from that. And there was this little showroom. It was a really cool space. And there was a young Greg Giraldo.

Oh, really? Sitting there, nervous as all hell, shaking hell shaking sweating terrified to go up and uh and we just talked and made each other laugh and that was the first comic i ever met wow yeah it was pretty special and how long and i well you remember the date you you know you remembered the date specifically yeah june 12th 1993 yeah and um and is that pretty much it like do you just are like okay here we go yeah pretty much i was you know i'd written some jokes and i got some laughs and you know it was enough to be exciting i'd never been in a comedy club before like i never like went to watch comedy i saw buddy Buddy Hackett in Atlantic City once,

and I saw Jackie Mason. I saw him, and I saw... No, I saw Buddy Hackett on TV, actually. The only one I saw was Jackie Mason, I guess, in Atlantic City. And so I'd never been in a comedy club. But once I was in there, and I met Gregreg and we changed phone numbers and we got some laughs and i was just like okay this is this is i can do this and my friends are excited to come i don't have to audition for anybody uh let's just let's just start going but you know in the beginning it's really fits and starts like yeah because you're not making money at it and you're it's hard to get gigs. And, you know, the first couple of years, you get up maybe one or two times, you know, a month.

And it takes a while, but that was it. I was like, yeah, I have to do this. Can't you tell my loves are growing do you have moments in those early days of just where you're just like scared shitless and you just think oh fuck this is never gonna happen and you know is there like an abyss of self-doubt that you peer into oh yeah all the time i remember i mean especially especially with your show, because I wanted to get on, like, young comics were able to get on there. Like, you guys were seeing, like, who the cooler comics were. And at that time, you know, you guys were putting on, like, you know,

Marc Maron and Louis and Mattel and, like, all these guys. And they were, like, sitting down doing panel. And it was like, these guys and they were like sitting down doing panel and it was like you guys were sniffing around the clubs and bringing up these comics and and i was like i wanted so desperately to get on your show and it was taking so long and uh i really was i remember being filled with doubt like i don't know if i can't get on if i can't get on that show how am i gonna where do i what's gonna happen maybe i don't you know and when you're not getting it you start to think like maybe it's all it's all wrong yeah and the irony i remember saying because it was frank smiley who was booking it and i was like how can i be in comedy being denied by a guy named Smiley?

Yeah. It was hard. He's still there. He's still working for us. Yeah. He's one of the stalwarts. And I love him. Like, after being on for so many times and getting through Paula and him and JP. And it was like you know these things that really and it should be

hard though like i wasn't ready in the beginning i'm sure yeah but i just wanted it so badly and it made you work harder but man you're filled with doubt and you know he's a performer i think as a creative person you're always filled with doubt you're always feeling like you can be better. And that never really goes away. It doesn't. That pool of doubt, you can dip into it at any time. And I'm always amazed by this. you know, having made a living at this, you know, for over 20, eight years, nine years, that I still, I can be feeling really good about myself. And I can, I mean, less so now because it's my working with the Conan show has been so it's calm, you know, it's like, it's, it's not

necessarily static, but it's, yeah, there's not a static but it's yeah there's not a lot of wrinkles thrown at you not a lot of you know curveballs whereas like when i was just doing other show you know like had a sitcom like especially when i had the show on on tv yeah you'd hear great stuff and you'd feel great and you'd feel like all right right, I'm on it. I'm on one of those ladders that goes to the sky, you know, rung by rung, here I go. And then literally a day later, you could have one phone call and somebody be like, it's not looking good. And you're like, what the fuck? And all of a sudden everything drops out and you're standing like on a tight rope over an abyss. And you you're like how did i ever think

that this was possible it's amazing i know you're exactly right and there's these moments like it doesn't even occur to you when things are going well like that this can't happen and then all of a sudden you get those phone calls you're just like wait what oh yeah no yeah yeah oh right i mean but that is such a that's such a minefield i guess like stand-up is my conan show right like i rely on it i can always do it i'm like it's yeah there is a calm and it's an it's you know it's it's still show business but it doesn't have that and then when you you start poking out, like I have a script now that is out there, and it's like all of a sudden you feel like you're going back into the woodcutter.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like the machine is just, all of a sudden you're back in a position where people can say no, or people can say go away, or they have to say yes for this to continue. And it's like that lack of control combined with being

a creative person who's a little more sensitive to the world it's uh you know i've seen super super talented people who did not progress because they couldn't handle that part of it like yeah kind of crushes them yeah you know and i had enough of i think that was the biggest benefit of being in sports and having a family that wasn't and making me go to school it gave me like it wasn't really really like a fallback plan but it was a backstop right like it was oh this is how the world works this is gonna you know you're gonna have all this k it's not all just emotion there is practicality to to kind of how you how do you stumble through it i guess yeah and i well and it's like you say too i think there is a there is some level of where

whether it's a learned thing or whether you have it but there's this kind of auto brainwashing that you do, because it's like you said, when you're riding high, you don't ever think it's going to be bad. And that's, I sort of have that same thing. And I think it's, you don't, you don't, you know, you just, when things are good good you just kind of exist in that moment it's like a compartmentalization and you don't really like you don't get caught up in the fear of it and i'm my parents used to they i mean not so much anymore obviously but after i left the conan show the first time and i would be working on a you know on a movie and or or i'd have a show you know, on a movie and, or, or I'd have a show, you know, a TV show that I was working on. They'd be like, right. Okay. So how long does this last? And I say, well, you know,

the episode, we got six episodes and, and then it's like, wait and see, or, or this movie, you know, I'm working for another month and a half. And then, and they're always like, well, what at what's after that? And I'd be like, I don't know. And they'd be like, well, what's after that? And I'd be like, I don't know. And they'd be like, well, how do you do that? And I would be like, I don't know. I honestly don't know. I just shut it off like that, you know, Book of Mormon song, you know. Turn it off.

All that worry, just turn it off because, like, what good is it going to do to me to worry about that you know like yeah my possible unemployability like no i have to kind of just go into this thing i'm like no i mean i've i've worked up till now you know yeah i guess i'll keep working you know i mean there's always that fear that it's going to all fall apart though but that's the thing it's like there is always that fear but if you let that fear engulf you then you'd never make this step you would never get in you'd never go anywhere it's like you really kind of have to it's almost like this this kind of like weird comedic zen thing where you have to kind of just deal with you know what's happening right now like yeah you know okay so we're gonna we're

gonna get on and have a fun chat with and. I could be thinking, yeah, but that script's not going to get made. And then if that script doesn't get made, am I ever going to be in a film? And you can create this tidal wave of fear. Yeah. It's like, no, let's just manage the little fear. Let's just manage, you know, it always exists, but don't let it overwhelm. You you gotta kind of create this naivete about it yeah it's better now when you say because i don't you know i i've i've only sort of dabbled in stand-up as a dilettante uh i have tons of friends who are stand-up so many of my people people in my life are are stand-up comedians but when you say something like

you know stand-up is your conan show it's the thing that you can rely on yeah as an outsider to that i mean you know like a familiar outsider but still an outsider that would i would feel nervous like well what if that falls apart like like what if what if all of a sudden like falls apart like like what if what if all of a sudden like the stuff just isn't selling like it used to and i mean how do you how do you maintain that business for yourself in a way that you feel like well i'll be you know you got daughters that need to go to college you know how do you make sure that you know that it's sustainable on that level because it can be so on and off you know accelerator and brake you know well yeah but i mean it's what i do and i try to get really good at it and i have my fans out there who like to come and see it or all around the country it's

like this little conversation you know i just feel like i just keep making it i didn't just like show up get enough of an act and let it just go and just, yeah, yeah. Let's just, let's just see how this rides. I mean, I really love writing it all the time and working at it and trying to get better and better and better. And that's my whole thing. And as I continue to do that, more people continue to show up. So there's enough of a conversation with them where I feel like, you know, it's, you know, look, everything can happen, anything can happen, it can, everything can go away. But yeah, I love it. It's my calling. It's what I really love to do. And it's, I never thought of it, of the reliability part of it. And, you know, after being in it so long and seeing my friends that got straight jobs,

those jobs ended up a lot, they were more vulnerable in a lot of ways than I was as a performer. Like, I saw, you know, people that were downsized and just kicked out. And now they're a little older and it's hard to get a job again. And there's no certainty to any of this. Yeah. Yeah. Any of it. But you obviously,

I guess, I guess that's the thing. And you know, is that there's growth. There's still growth. Yeah. Even to this thing that you've been doing. That's,

you know, yeah. That's your main thing that you've been doing forever. There's still growth to it. Oh, a hundred percent. Oh, good.

Yeah. And I really don't feel, I feel like I'm's still growth to it. Oh, 100%. Oh, good. And I really don't feel, and I feel like I'm just starting to get it. Oh, wow. And I don't say that in a humble kind of a way. Like I truly have like a style of writing and I know how to go at it. And I just feel like I'm getting better at it now than, you know, I think I was able to kind of succeed without being great. You know what I mean? Like, I was able to, like,

be funny enough to keep it going and, and you know there's energy and there's all this other stuff but as far as like the writing and the craft of like what the jokes are and what i want to say i feel like i don't know i just feel like it's getting better now at this moment than it uh so yeah the growth is growth is important otherwise you get bored of it i think i think yeah yeah it would just kind of go away is there a um at this point in your career well i mean covid is is it throws a wrench into the works obviously which is it's uh well i'll ask about that in a second but um what did it ever feel like a grind like the road like that you know especially as you had kids you know i mean or did you were you able to sort of like balance it enough where you didn't have to work so much that you know

live too i always worked a ton and that's the kind of what this year this four sabbatical has done has made me kind of like look at look at it all but But, you know, as comedians, you just kind of say yes to everything because you do want to keep it going. And, and, and, you know, as, as it keeps growing, you just keep, just say yes and just keep going. And I was always, you know, I was always very conscious of being around for my family and that kind of stuff, but I went hard for a long, long time. And this sabbatical kind of made me think like on the one hand it makes me think should i be more tactical like a band you know they're like we're going it's summer tour and then you're home in the fall you know like they

always seem to like have have it set up that way and uh and we just tour constantly we're just on this never-ending tour yeah but it but then the other side of me is like well why would i dial it back now when my kids are on their way to college it's like this is if i was gonna do that right right i should have done that when they were five or six but i needed to make money for the family so i couldn't do it when they were five or six so uh you know but back to your question of like, did you ever like tire of it? Did it ever feel like a grind? There's definitely times when you're not feeling great or you do have disappointments or you're not selling well in a certain city that you're headed to.

And there's definitely, you know, there's hard parts to it. But it always seems to, it's such a silly thing but and it's a small thing but a huge thing like if literally if you have a new idea that works in that set like if you haul your ass to cleveland and you're not feeling it but then that whole weekend you have this new like five minute chunk that you're working on and it's starting to work and you're relating it just does something to you that yeah that kind of pushes all that other negativity out of the way yeah i can see that yeah you know you can get lazy within it and then like you said not grow and then those times you start to feel bad and you you stay feeling bad yeah yeah yeah yeah now your wife uh cynthia you guys how old were you when you how old are you when you guys met um we were together

um like like late 20s early 30s okay so you were already a road comic. I mean, she knew what she was in for? She did. And she was a comedian. Oh, okay. She started as a comedian. We met at the comic strip. And we were in a sketch group together. We had this funny little sketch group.

Not very funny, but little. And we started hanging out. But the minute I met her, I was like, oh, boy. Okay. Okay. Yeah. And we had this kind of intense connection because we went to the same kindergarten a year apart. Oh, my gosh. Went to the same school up until third grade, and then I moved one town over.

And we had this shared history of same summer job. Never met, but had this same summer jobs. Kind of, we were at the same parties like there was a there was like this familial kind of sure thing that we just knew each other's really really well but she knew she was an inner she started as a dancer before she was a comedian and she was in the arts she was an entertainer she traveled around she saw me traveling around so she yeah she knew she not only did she know what she was getting into but she also didn't it wasn't foreign to her at all like right she had chosen it for herself yeah yeah yeah yeah she has more wanderlust i think than i do but when the kids showed up you know that kind of just changed that for her not for you you still just

oh man all over the place yeah i was like if i can get her pregnant then i can keep going to cleveland i can yeah i can go to lincoln nebraska all i want well no that is i mean that is i mean that you describe like a really wonderful chance at a really good, long, healthy relationship because there is so much understood. You know, you just, and you can just kind of be yourself so much with someone like that. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. A hundred percent.

I mean, you know, yeah. And it's even like down to like the minutia of like what you talk about or your attitudes towards stuff. It's like you both kind of come from that weird combination i mean it's so really remarkable that we met like we had the same shared history of like this kindergarten all those values all that stuff that you learned when you were five six eight we learned at the same time and then also we ended up in entertainment like it's a weird, weird, lucky stroke for sure. I probably should give her flowers. Once or twice.

Sign a copy of your book for her. That would be very nice. Can't you tell my love are growing one of the things about stand-up that's that's always been interesting to me is you know the different kinds of comedians but they really are sharing a part of themselves i mean like there are some stand-up like you know you brought up louis ck earlier and he was a writer on the conan show very early on uh like one of the first writers on the show so i you know he and i were friends for a good long time and i used to go see him do his set especially like after he got married and after he had his first kid and it was painfully confessional in my estimation like what he did yeah and there were times when i'd be like like there was something about that warts and all kind of comedy that was

brilliant and he's an amazing observationalist especially when he turns it on himself which he doesn't do too much anymore if you ask me but um if i it would make me uncomfortable and i would think i could never do that i could never talk about the warts and all aspects of my marriage like that and i mean you kind of you're sort of split the difference i think with your work like where there's yeah yeah it's honesty but it's not like makes the audience uncomfortable honesty. Right. Well, it's also, it's being truthful because there are aggravations and there are, you know, those things that I do talk about in my act. But we didn't have a depth of resentment and lack of love that he obviously did in his relationship because it ended up blowing up, right?

Yeah. Like they divorced and there was a lot more pain there i don't we don't have that i would be i would be false if i was creating stuff that was so gut-wrenching i couldn't handle it and you know it's almost like you know it's that kind of that thing of like does great art come from pain well sometimes you know you do really get to when he would i was thinking about his joke just the other day actually about the like the saddest hand job in history when right but like it's this joke about his wife pleasuring him but resenting him at the same time and i mean those things when he unearthed those are they really they they stick with you like those those moments and uh you know like you know chapelle going deep with his stuff and

there is that thing but i i don't we don't we're not a failing relationship so yeah yeah my stuff is going to be a little bit more about the problems I have sleeping next to her while she has a mouth guard in her mouth. And you know what I mean? I had an interesting moment yesterday when driving my daughter to school and I forgot this again, this whole thing of forgetting stuff. I had to do a TV interview because I'm doing this live streaming show on Saturday. So I've been out promoting it and they called me on my phone. I had to zoom on a TV show in Portland and I'm driving my daughter to school. And I'm doing, we're at the carpool. So I'm red lights.

And it was right at the school. So it wasn't, I wasn't having a speed, but we were in that crawl. So I was doing it there. And the host asked my daughter, she said, how do you feel about your dad telling jokes about you? Like, does it bother you? Are you okay with it? And we never really talk about that. Yeah.

Because I do talk about, you know, we have a mean girl girl and I do talk about the aggravation of fatherhood. And she I was kind of relieved because she said, sometimes my friends will say, look what your dad said about you. But they don't really understand how comedy works. Between chomps on her cigar. Yeah. She's like, he's exaggerating they're civilians yeah what do they know i was kind of relieved because you know i know they don't sit and watch my stuff but they but you know social media they they come across it and stuff but it's good to

know that they understand that there's a there's a little truth but there's a lot of exaggeration in it. Yeah, yeah. You know? Do you find there to be therapeutic aspects to your work? And was there, as over the, you know, as you start out just being a comedian that's trying to be funny and trying to find your way. Yeah. Then you get some kind of poise and you are kind of talking about your life. Are there times when it like has beneficial or not so beneficial effects on your actual psyche and your actual relationships? Yeah. And I think not doing it now for this year, I've only done like a handful of weekends this entire year.

That's so unusual yeah it's so weird to not do it that you the lack of of therapeutic cathartic moments like every every night i would get up on stage somewhere and let it out you know yeah yeah and sometimes it would be stuff that would never make it onto tv or into my specials but at that night in that moment i could go off about my brother-in-law or something and just oh and have the audience laugh it was you feel so much better yeah and this year of but just bottling it up all that stuff still happening your life is still going on you're still aggravated you still have all this doubt and whatever's going on and no outlet for it. You just kind of carry it and open another bottle of wine. It really made me realize how therapeutic

it was, you know, how much of a lucky profession that you could have that release because this year I haven't had it. And man, I'm on the Peloton a lot, just trying to keep my head straight. Really, just to clear out my head. Yeah, yeah. It's nothing to do with like losing weight or I'm just like, I got to get on that or I'm going to be weird at dinner. Are there things that have happened in your life? I mean, obviously not during COVID times, but where you're like, I need to think about this, so I'm going to take it to the stage. You know, like does the stage sometimes become your, you know,

your workout space for like how to solve your life issues? Yeah, probably. Yeah. your workout space for like how to solve your life issues yeah probably that and writing the books also the writing the books has been um a big part of that too because you can go deeper and you're not always going for a laugh so you have a lot more space to like really just kind of pour stuff out yeah and uh i find that that puts me but that kind of puts you in this you're almost too much in your own head like if i'm when i have a deadline i'm writing a ton it's like i become very insular i become very quiet around the house you know uh yeah it's it's a you know because i don't i don't really deal in my relationships with a lot of

sincerity you know what i mean like i'm sincere but i i'm always making light of stuff and joking around about stuff i never like sit down like let's have a talk yeah you know what i mean so but you kind of i think stand-up allows me to not have to do that. You know? Yeah, yeah. Because I can kind of emotionally kind of get all that stuff out. And now I don't have to like sit and have a family meeting. Yeah.

Yeah, there's a clip of me from the chuckle hut, hon, if you want to know how I feel about this particular issue. Yeah. It's probably healthy for me, but maybe not for everybody involved. Yeah, I was going to say, because when you write a book, I mean, like you mentioned it, like your brother-in-law, your kids are one thing, but like, is your brother-in-law in your books? And how do you handle that? How do you handle like sort of working from sort of an autobiographical memoir kind of space yeah when there are you know well i wouldn't call them innocents because those fuckers are always driving you crazy yeah the people in your life you know yeah yeah uh yeah it's i i, I, I, I cheat it.

I mean, different names and different things. And do people figure it out ever? Do they go like, Hey, wait a minute. Is that me? No, I haven't had that, but I have, I mean, they haven't said maybe, but I've had some surprising misinterpretations about what I wrote. Oh, really? Yeah. I had some surprising misinterpretations about what I wrote. Oh, really? Yeah, which was really, I have a friend of my mother's who's, I was talking about how when I was younger, it was an essay about kid i liked hanging out when we'd have like these big when the men would be

sitting as a kid when the men would be watching football and the women would be in the kitchen i always like drifting over into the kitchen because they were talking and they were funny and they were just laughing and then i go back and same right then you go back into the game to watch the game with the guys and they'd all just watching silence. And once in a while, I'll make a ball-busting joke. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I go back in there, and they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I remember at a certain point, she was my aunt, but she wasn't.

She was a friend of my mother's. And she said, oh, no. At a certain age certain age she said look at tommy's turning into a man he doesn't want to hang out with us anymore he's and i was i was drifting towards just being one of the dudes and she called me out on it and i was telling the story in the essay, and I was talking about how she had different relationships with men and knew that part of it, and it was sad to see me go over there. And she interpreted it that I was talking about her divorces or something, that I was like, and I was like, it was was such a in my mind it was such a postcard love letter to how she taught me to keep my eyes open and not become a cold-hearted guy yeah and she was it was so so important and she told my mother like yeah it was i didn't like that i didn't like what he

said she misinterpreted it as some some judgment on her failed marriages or something. So that was the only one that really kind of stung. Well, you did call the chapter, If Aunt Kathy Could Keep a Man. Dot, dot, dot. Yeah, I know. That was my editor, which I guess you'll never know that. Well, that's too bad. That was my editor, which I guess you'll never know that. Well, that's too bad.

You know, yeah, it's people, you know, they bring their own baggage to the airport. Yeah. And I was pretty harsh on my in-laws in this one essay because they were kind of mean, but i knew that they would never read it be careful though man because i i think oh no one like you know my mom will never hear this and then i get like i heard what you said about me you know i have a i have a funny part of that with the conan show my grandmother was who i adored and she was 90 like almost 90 years old and i had a joke about how she was kind of going bald in the front but still had her long hair she like was turning into benjamin franklin thinking well she has alzheimer's now you know she'll never know and and i went down to visit

her in florida at the nursing home for her 90th birthday. And she's like, Benjamin Franklin. I was like, she doesn't remember anyone's names. She's totally crazy town. And she remembered that joke. Well, it was therapeutic for her. You were helping her with her memory loss. Yeah, exactly. Jolting her out of it. Yeah, something that she was really going to pop with her. know with her memory loss yeah exactly jolting her out of it yeah something

she was really gonna pop with her yeah it's so funny you mentioned that you have a script out is it a feature script no it's a uh it's a sitcom script sitcom and is that kind of where you're going is that is that sort of where you where you kind of are hoping things head? I don't know, Andy. It's hard because, you know, you have, I've got stand-up. I'm working on the next book. And I love television. I've never really nailed it with TV. Like, I had like six episodes here, you know,

10 episodes hosting something there. Game showing, yeah. Yeah, and that kind of thing. And I still have that thing in me that really wants to do episodes hosting something there and game showing yeah yeah and that it's kind of thing and i i've still have that thing in me that really wants to do like a scripted show yeah but i worry that i that i don't have the focus for it like i write these scripts and i'm trying to get it going but i have all these other distractions you know what i mean like it's like if it if everything was totally focused on that would I pull it off you know I don't know is the short answer is that

I'd love to I would love to produce some more and like I don't even necessarily have to be the guy you know starring in it I would I love telling stories and yeah i would love to do it but i'm i i am worried that i'm spread too thin yeah and maybe that's subconscious maybe maybe i love the writing that and the books and the stand-up more i don't know but you can tell this is what goes on in my head at night it's there's no real answer it just kind of spins around. No, it's hard because when you're talking about getting a TV show made, you're really getting into an area of saying, I want to pour myself into something that I have almost no control over. Yeah. You know, whereas like when you write a book, you sell the book and there's an editor that kind of has some say in it. But you write the book.

Yeah. Whereas when you write the pilot, you know, you go to a network person, you say, or whoever you go and say, I'll have an idea for a pilot. Cool. Here's some money. Write it. Okay. I wrote it. Oh, cool. We're going to make some episodes of it. Okay, great. So sure. You know what we want? We actually want your wife to be a dentist and we want your kids to not be kids we want them to be ponies yeah and you know and then it's just like what the fuck and then you make it as much as you you know you do all these compromises and then it's like you know what thanks for those five episodes but you know what we're just gonna throw them in the trash. Yeah. Because the person that hired you got fired and the new person has no interest in keeping things from the previous regime.

It's just debilitating, you know, how much, because you convince yourself over and over this thing is good. This is going to work. This is, and it's like I said earlier about every time I did a show, I was like, you have to convince yourself. about every time I did a show. I was like, you have to convince yourself, you have to forget your failures.

Because then you can't enter into new things because you're just like, well, this is just going to get blown up like that last fucking thing. Right. And that thing, whatever the end result is, that story you just described, which is every TV experience I've ever had, the executives, all the rest of it, is ultimately like a two, three-year process.

Yeah! Yeah! It's two or three years. And you're so right about the book. When I was thinking about writing the first one, and I asked Dave Hill about it, the great Dave Hill, because he had written one, and I said, what do you think? You know, it seems like a lot of work for not like a ton of cash. And is it worth it?

He said, the greatest thing is when they say you're doing the book and you make the deal to write the book, you know it's going to be made. Yeah. Unlike everything else in television and show business, you know, when you're sitting there late at night pounding out on the keyboard, there's no like, oh, but what if some executive doesn't like this from some place you never met?

Because that will get made. And that was so close to stand up that I was like, oh, it's such a calming thing. Back to your perfect word of calming. And then it allows you to just make as great as stuff as you can where the rest is like you're working on that script and you're doing that pilot and then 80 of your energy is fighting off all that other stuff yeah yeah it's very little about the the creative force of it and it's also somebody pointed this out to me in a version. Victor Fresco, the guy that ran Andy Richter Controls the Universe, talked about network testing because there was like, this isn't testing well, this isn't testing well.

And he said, this would matter if they were proved, like it was provable that their testing worked. Yeah. But like they test the shit out of everything and then they put it on TV and you watch it and you're like, this is dumb as shit. This isn't funny. I know. And it's like and it's like when you you're killing yourself, like because you want to like, you know, the notion of like getting a show on network television. Yeah, it's huge. But then, you know, like here's all the new comedies for network television. And you're just like, oh, my god yeah i want to take a shower this is so gross and you're thinking these are the people that are going to tell me yeah nah your ideas aren't good oh it's so crazy because like even specifically with your show it's like anyone that is in that

testing are not the people that are going to really love your show they're the people that love your show are not rolling into testing they're reading books they're like they're watching comedy show they're like cool kids it's like yeah i know there's there's it's not even that like you know my shit is so great and it's going to be fantastic it's just it's like okay i can get i can take that like whatever i do whatever you do, my, you know, it's like, it's for some people, it's not for other people. Like I'm not saying I'm a, you know, a smash hit, but it is like, Jesus Christ, you can't hire me and then expect me to be Alan Thicke. You know what I mean? It's, and it's, and it's so, it's so, um, it's such a sneaky thing too. Cause as you're

going along, you're making your, you have this relationship with thing too because as you're going along you're making your you have this relationship with the network people and you're like they're all cool i like them they're like you know and you want to it's like we're all working together and they have good ideas and you don't realize you're you slowly chip away and you slowly make these tiny little micro changes and it all ends up being a bigger thing. And those people who you were trying to please are not the ones that ultimately get it on the air. They bring it to like New York up in their corporate building. And there's executives you've never met and never created a relationship

with or sent a funny email to. And those are the people that end up making the decision. So it's kind of crazy. It really is. But all that being said, when you have a show and you're making your way through this minefield and you get it up and you're getting it on TV, it's very exciting. It's really great. I mean, all of this, of course, is. I mean, I hope that this is all like sort of like grounded in the fact that we're very fucking lucky to get to do all this for a living. I mean, lucky and, you know, it's not just luck.

I mean. Yeah, it's a lot of work. Yeah, it's a lot of work. It's a lot of skill and talent and stuff. But yeah, OK, I get it. Yeah, yeah. No, it's rarefied air when you start bitching about getting network notes. Yeah.

But, you you know still your life is your life yeah but yeah and and and it's just so much fun i mean there's nothing more there's nothing better than walking around and saying to people so what do you got going on instead of being like well i'm doing some more stuff on my podcast and i'm going to lincoln nebraska when you have those moments in your career where you're like, I've got a new movie coming out in July. Yeah. Oh, that's such a great thing.

I sold a show, got picked up. Yeah. Those things. Yeah. Oh, they're so great because you know it puts so much into it and it's such an easy thing for people to understand. It's like, I'll keep trying. Well, I got to wrap this up.

I got to go pick up my daughter at school. Wow, this was so much fun. It was really fun. The final one, you know, is the what have you learned? So what's the moral of the Tom Papa story, do you think? You should enjoy the hell out of every single thing that you do yeah and i really mean it and i i i mean it from like being in your relationships dealing with your kids whatever your work is whatever bird watching thing you're into just enjoy the hell out of it and be a little bit of

like the the kid that does get in trouble because it's just so fast and just slides along. And to spend all of your time like aggravated and cranky and worrying about politics and this and that and all of it. Politics, fights, it's a waste of time. It's a waste of time. So just really try and enjoy as much as you can. And look, it doesn't mean that you're blissed out. Sometimes you just enjoy one little small packet size

of Dorito Cool Ranch that day. Maybe that's all you get that day, but it's better than nothing. It's better than nothing is is actually really solid advice really really for all the shit that can get thrown at you it's better than nothing it's better than nothing you got you squeezed one laugh out that's good good for you i think i think you found your epitaph call the tombstone maker it's better than nothing better than nothing it's the name of my next tour all right well tom thank you so much thank you andy you're the best Better than nothing. Better than nothing. It's the name of my next tour. All right.

Well, Tom, thank you so much. Thank you, Andy. You're the best. Oh, you're the best. No, you're the best. I'll see you at Carpool. Yeah, you will. You will.

And thank all of you out there for listening to another episode of The Three Questions. We'll be back next week. Thank you. Thank you. I've got a big, big love Thank you. The Three Questions with Andy Richter is a Team Coco and Your Wolf production. It is produced by Lane Gerbig, engineered by Marina Pice, and talent

produced by Galitza Hayek. The associate producer is Jen Samples, supervising producer Aaron Blair, and executive producers Adam Sachs and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Earwolf. Make sure to rate and review the three questions that Andy Richter on Apple Podcasts.

Can't you tell my love's a-growing? This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf.